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Alice vs Altair

Alice vs Altair

  • Alice wins!

    Votes: 3 33.3%
  • Altair wins!

    Votes: 5 55.6%
  • They kill each other...

    Votes: 1 11.1%

  • Total voters
    9

Sheilawisz

Queen of Titania
Moderator
So yeah, welcome to my Alice vs Altair crossover battle thread!

Please take your time to consider the comparison before voting in the Poll. This is a battle to the death between the lethal Alice from Alice Madness Returns and Altair, the 12th Century killing machine from Assassin's Creed.

I am playing both games these days, so I came up with the idea of comparing them in battle.

The idea is that both characters will face each other equipped with all of their abilities and weapons. Alice recognizes Altair immediately as a threat, while Altair at first thinks that Alice is an ordinary young woman.

First, we have Alice:

37335-alice-madness-returns-not-to-be-messed-with-wallpaper.jpg


And then, Altair:

Altair-747885.jpeg


Alice and Altair find each other at a lonely forest, it so happens that Altair is just passing through. Alice is alarmed, so she draws out the Vorpal blade and attacks first. Altair reacts in time to fight...

Who will win this epic battle between masters of death?
 

Sheilawisz

Queen of Titania
Moderator
Hello Cold, thank you for posting!

I wanted to provide more information about both characters and their capabilities, so people visiting my thread can have a better idea of what they can do in battle.

First, this video shows what Alice can do and some of the things that she fights against:

[video=youtube_share;bhDEc7ALrM0]http://youtu.be/bhDEc7ALrM0[/video]

I tried to post Altair's fighting video here, but it seems that we can post only one video in every post, sorry... It's coming in my following post.

For our Imaginary crossover battle: Alice will carry the Vorpal Blade, her Umbrella, the time bombs, Hobby Horse, Teapot Cannon and her devastating Pepper Grinder. She will be wearing Classic Dress, with the power to regain health when she displays her Shrink ability.

Altair will have his sword, short blade, hidden blade and knives.

My theory is that Altair would be surprised by Alice's Teleporting ability, which she would use to dodge his attacks and catch him from behind. It would be very difficult to land a hit on her, and she can take far more damage that the Guards, Soldiers and even Templar Knights that Altair normally fights.

Alice would have no trouble slaying twelve Guards in a fight, but... How well would Altair fair against a Menacing Ruin and three Eyepots? I think that says something about which character is really more dangerous and lethal.

Go, Alice! =)
 

Sheilawisz

Queen of Titania
Moderator
Altair's Fighting Video is here:

[video=youtube_share;fi_yAoa3-qM]http://youtu.be/fi_yAoa3-qM[/video]

I love Altair, but in my opinion Alice would definitely win against him.
 

Sheilawisz

Queen of Titania
Moderator
I have found another video to support Alice.

This time, you can watch Alice in battle against a Menacing Ruin. She displays her crushing Hobby Horse attacks instead of the Vorpal Blade, combined with her Pepper Grinder, Teapot Cannon and Teleportation.


[video=youtube_share;_WGX78amoF0]http://youtu.be/_WGX78amoF0?list=LLHZDMgKX8EDCLV68Ev4wSIQ[/video]

The Menacing are a joke compared to the Colossal Ruin, and Alice kills those too.

As a curious note, this battle takes place in the frozen and beautiful Tundraful... which is by far my favorite world in the entire freaking game.

They should have made an entire chapter like Tundraful, really =)
 
Technically, Alice would win because Altair is too grounded in reality. He might survive some of her arsenal, but teleporting and every other thing she can do is something that goes beyond what an assassin would encounter in their world. There is also Hysteria, which makes Alice invincible, sooo...A tad unfair for Altair, haha!
 

Mindfire

Istar
The idea is that both characters will face each other equipped with all of their abilities and weapons. Alice recognizes Altair immediately as a threat, while Altair at first thinks that Alice is an ordinary young woman.

I have to stop you right there. Your premise is flawed for a single reason: Altair, like all the games' main Assassins, has Eagle Vision. Also known as the psychic ability to instantly read the threat potential and intentions of any person merely from a casual encounter. That sort of negates Alice's first move advantage. And without that advantage, things become a bit more even. Altair is the king of sneak attacks. It is literally all he does.
 

Sheilawisz

Queen of Titania
Moderator
Hello Mindfire.

I imagined their first encounter like that for several reasons: Alice recognizes Altair as a threat quickly because he is a large, strong man carrying all of those weapons and wearing a mysterious hood. In the other hand, Alice looks quite ordinary because her weapons are not always visible, despite the fact that her dresses are weird.

Really, I don't understand how come Altair can simply walk into the cities (after killing the entrance guards, I mean) and nobody says anything...

About the Eagle Vision: From my experience playing Assassin's Creed, I know that this power is not active all the time. I only activate it when I need to scan my surroundings looking for enemies (red) or the Target (yellow) so most of the time I have Altair walking around without Eagle Vision.

In my scenario, Altair is walking through a forest when he finds Alice. The Eagle Vision cannot be used while Altair walks, but he comes to a halt when he sees her coming and then he reacts according to the danger =)

I strongly disagree with you when you say all that Altair does are sneak attacks.

After completing three Assassination missions, I came to the conclusion that Assassin's Creed is not a game of stealth, but a game of brute force and sheer killing power instead. There are moments when you need stealth and sneakiness, but without good fighting skills you cannot win.

I can take on ten and more guards at the same time, and Altair kills them all.

Scenario Update: Altair uses his sword to block several hits of the Vorpal Blade. After that, both characters retreat several steps as they take each other very seriously, and then they really fight.

@Manalodia: It seems to me that Altair is not really grounded in reality.

The 12th century Assassin must be some type of monster, because nobody could do such things in real life. The Leaps of Faith, the Eagle Vision, the huge endurance that allows him to take many sword slashes and keep fighting, the incredibly fast healing and his almost supernatural ability to climb...

After all, both characters are quite supernatural.

I also think that Hysteria Alice would probably cause Altair to flee, but for that to happen, he would have to cause her enough damage in the first place and that's unlikely to happen.

Go, Alice! XD
 
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Mindfire

Istar
Hello Mindfire.

I imagined their first encounter like that for several reasons: Alice recognizes Altair as a threat quickly because he is a large, strong man carrying all of those weapons and wearing a mysterious hood. In the other hand, Alice looks quite ordinary because her weapons are not always visible, despite the fact that her dresses are weird.

Really, I don't understand how come Altair can simply walk into the cities (after killing the entrance guards, I mean) and nobody says anything...

I think it's the game's way of portraying the Assassins' almost supernatural ability to blend in. But I'm sure it wasn't all that uncommon for people to carry around swords and such during medieval times. Especially if you're a traveler.

About the Eagle Vision: From my experience playing Assassin's Creed, I know that this power is not active all the time. I only activate it when I need to scan my surroundings looking for enemies (red) or the Target (yellow) so most of the time I have Altair walking around without Eagle Vision.

Well, this is where things get a little tricky. Because we have to recognize that Eagle Vision is an Assassin ability, an Animus overlay, and a game mechanic. So we have to consider, what aspects are there because it's an in-world ability that the Assassins have vs. what's there as a function of the Animus vs. what's there in order to serve as a game mechanic. Now obviously that's wide open to interpretation. Plus there's the fact that people play differently and some rely on EV more or less than others do. But in my opinion, the explicit highlighting of enemies, targets, and points of interest while darkening the background is probably more on the game mechanic side. After all, as the games have evolved, the way EV works and looks has changed. In AC original flavor, the distinction between EV and normal vision is very stark. Targets are highlighted and the background is darkened. But going forward, the line has been blurred a bit more and EV has evolved into more of an augmented reality sort of deal. Some things appear highlighted even when EV is switched off, and the environment is much more visible while using EV in the later games. This is even apparent comparing two games that came out pretty close to each other like AC2 and AC:R. So, is Eagle Vision actually evolving over time? If so, why does it change over the course of Ezio's life to become more useful, but then revert to being less powerful and useful when Desmond gains the power in the original game? And why would the human brain ever have an on/off switch for what's essentially a sixth sense? It doesn't make any sense in-world for that to be the case. So in my opinion, in-universe, I think EV is more like what I described: a psychic ability. In-universe it's always on. The on/off toggle and colored highlights are purely there for the player's benefit. (And really, if you had an ability like this in real life and could turn it off, why would you?) So we have to assume that Altair's EV is "active" when he encounters Alice.


In my scenario, Altair is walking through a forest when he finds Alice. The Eagle Vision cannot be used while Altair walks, but he comes to a halt when he sees her coming and then he reacts according to the danger =)

This again comes down to what's a game mechanic vs. what's in-world. Why is it that in AC you can only use EV while standing still, but then in AC2 and onwards you can move while it's on? And why does this rule suddenly change for Desmond as well? What about the sections of Revelations where you play as Altair and can walk while using EV? Clearly this restriction is another game mechanic, whereas in-world Altair can walk while using EV just fine.


I strongly disagree with you when you say all that Altair does are sneak attacks.


After completing three Assassination missions, I came to the conclusion that Assassin's Creed is not a game of stealth, but a game of brute force and sheer killing power instead. There are moments when you need stealth and sneakiness, but without good fighting skills you cannot win.

I can take on ten and more guards at the same time, and Altair kills them all.

That was a little hyperbole on my part. I only meant that Altair is a sneak attack expert, not that he's incapable of anything else. And yes, he excels at brawling. But many missions go easier if you do it the sneaky way. And when you're fighting an enemy that can teleport, a sneak attack can make the difference between a really difficult fight that you'll probably lose and a fight that's over in two seconds because you stabbed the enemy in the back or shot them with a crossbow when they're not looking.

Also: even if I grant that, even with EV, Altair and Alice recognize each other as a threat simultaneously, granting no one first move advantage, Altair still has the magical ability to become completely invisible by sitting on a bench, walking into a crowd, or jumping into a well. (Either that or the guards in the AC universe are mentally underdeveloped and have no concept of object permanence, but that explanation is even more ludicrous.) So when Alice spots him he can vanish and wait for the right moment to set up an attack from the shadows.

Scenario Update: Altair uses his sword to block several hits of the Vorpal Blade. After that, both characters retreat several steps as they take each other very seriously, and then they really fight.
I'm not familiar with Alice's abilities, but they seem explicitly magical. I'm not convinced Altair, even though he's essentially a supersoldier on par with Captain America, would fare too well in a straight-up fight against someone with magical powers he's never encountered before. The outcome of that is a lot less clear to me. Unless he has the Apple of Eden on hand, in which case it just becomes unfair.

@Manalodia: It seems to me that Altair is not really grounded in reality.

The 12th century Assassin must be some type of monster, because nobody could do such things in real life. The Leaps of Faith, the Eagle Vision, the huge endurance that allows him to take many sword slashes and keep fighting, the incredibly fast healing and his almost supernatural ability to climb...
SUPER. SOLDIER. :D

I appreciate you promoting this character though. I might check out the game.
 

Sheilawisz

Queen of Titania
Moderator
I am new to the huge world of the Assassin's Creed series.

What happens is that I acquired a PlayStation 3 (finally!) like three weeks ago. I was not sure which games would be the best for me to play, but some friends kept recommending AC saying how wonderful it was, and so I decided to give it a try... and now it seems that I am hooked for the rest of my life.

I intend to lay my hands on AC 2 and also 3 as soon as possible, but for now, the version of Altair and the Assassin powers involved in this crossover battle are only those seen in the first game of all.

My intention is to compare both characters as I have known them in their respective games, and according to the game experience Altair's Eagle Vision is active only when he comes to a halt somewhere and turns it on. The color highlighting in other characters remains visible for some time after you deactivate it, but it fades quickly.

The forest offers no benches or other hiding places for Altair, but he could have the advantage of climbing something while Alice cannot climb at all. Alice could resort to jump in order to reach a higher position too, but the battle would be more spectacular if they fight on the ground.

Alice can survive getting brutally stabbed by giant forks (Madcaps), ran over by Menacing Ruins in a rampage, slashed by huge Katana swords (Samurai Wasps) and other similar things. Altair's weapons are not going to cause an instant kill even if he stabs her from behind, so he would need to cause loads of damage in direct battle and then she goes into Hysteria.

Altair would have a good advantage if they fought in Masyaf or Damascus, but if the battle took place somewhere at Hatter's Domain then Alice would have an easy victory. That's why I chose a neutral battlefield instead, so they test their destructive capabilities against each other without other factors getting involved.

Scenario Update: When Altair sees Alice coming from a good distance he becomes suspicious, stops walking and activates his Eagle Vision. She glows intense red immediately, so he draws out his sword and is ready to fight by the time she charges to attack.

Their blades collide a few times, they put some distance between them out of respect and then they fight.

Curious question: Which Assassin's Creed games would you recommend me as the best? Some people say that AC3 is really bad, but I am very curious about it. What about AC4 and its pirate-themed world? I know some AC titles are not available for PlayStation 3, but I am limited to it at the moment.
 
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Reaver

Staff
Moderator
AC3 isn't bad in my opinion. It just depends on one's point of view. The world in AC3 is gigantic. You could literally spend hours just exploring. Also Connor, the protagonist of AC3, is an engaging, interesting character and the American Revolution as a backdrop is great.

There is also a lot of great DLC (downloadable content) for AC that presents an alternate version of history that is very interesting.

AC4 is a great deal of fun and it too is quite expansive but not nearly as large as AC3. AC4 has two great DLC's that while not long in gameplay are rich in story.

The first is Aveline, the first female assassin in the AC universe. The second is called Freedom Cry where you play as Adewale, an escaped slave and Edward's right hand man. In Freedom Cry you get to free slaves.

In my opinion, AC2 is the best of the best because the MC, Ezio Auditore da Firenze, is the most fun and charismatic character.

And it has the best story line. Also you have the help of a young Leonardo da Vinci, who makes all your gadgets for you.

Ezio is also in AC Brotherhood and AC Revelations, which make up The Ezio Trilogy (which I recommend buying because you get all three games in one).
 

Mindfire

Istar
When Altair sees Alice coming from a good distance he becomes suspicious, stops walking and activates his Eagle Vision. She glows intense red immediately, so he draws out his sword and is ready to fight by the time she charges to attack.

Their blades collide a few times, they put some distance between them out of respect and then they fight.
Roll the dice, I guess. I don't know enough about Alice to say more.

Curious question: Which Assassin's Creed games would you recommend me as the best? Some people say that AC3 is really bad, but I am very curious about it. What about AC4 and its pirate-themed world? I know some AC titles are not available for PlayStation 3, but I am limited to it at the moment.

I've only played up through Revelations so far, and I haven't finished it. Even though I haven't played AC3 yet, I think it gets some unfair hate. As for why... topic for another time. But I'd recommend you start with either AC2 or AC:Brotherhood, which adds some cool features like getting Assassin trainees that can perform tasks and kill people for you when you signal them. It's nice to have minions. :D
 

Sheilawisz

Queen of Titania
Moderator
How I would play with Alice to fight Altair:

1- I believe that Altair has a superior strength to Alice, and also his devastating Counter Strikes would inflict severe damage on her. This is why I would not attack the Assassin face to face, at least not with the Vorpal Blade. In case that I wanted to take him on directly, I would display the Hobby Horse.

2- In case Altair begins to throw knives at Alice, I would use the Umbrella to try and send them back to him. The knives would cause little damage to Alice, anyway. In response to the knives, I would open fire with the Pepper Grinder from a safe distance and damage him before attempting a direct strike.

3- I would try to use Teleportation to get behind Altair and slash him with the Vorpal before he can turn around. Also, Alice jumping around would make it more difficult for Altair to defend properly against her.

4- In case everything else fails, Alice would shoot the Teapot Cannon.

How I would play with Altair to fight Alice:

1- Considering that Altair is physically stronger, my strategy would be to try and force Alice into direct combat. I would try to overwhelm her with sword blows and combo kills, hoping to cause enough damage before I am screwed. In case she chooses the Hobby Horse instead of the Vorpal, I would run.

2- I have seen Samurai Wasps using their swords to defend themselves from Pepper Grinder fire, so perhaps Altair would be capable of shielding himself with his sword when that happens.

3- As soon as the fight starts, I would send my entire supply of knives against Alice.

4- There is no defense for Altair against Teapot Cannon blasts. Eventually I would be losing the battle, so my only option would be to try to use Altair's superior running speed to get away from Alice and gain enough time to recover. Then she would use teleportation to catch me from behind, or just shoot with the Grinder and I am dead anyway.

I am sure that's what would happen if Alice and Altair fought each other... Or perhaps, they would become friends in order to fight the Templars and the Menacing Ruins together! XD
 
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