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Publishable?

Incanus

Auror
I know virtually nothing about the current 'marketplace', so I have a question for those who do.

Would any of the works of H.P. Lovecraft or Clark Ashton Smith be accepted for publication if they were submitted today?

For purposes of this discussion, let's dismiss for a moment the racist elements of Lovecraft. What I'm trying to figure out is if stories that rely more on 'intellectual' content than 'relationship' or 'emotional' content still have any commercial viability.

Maybe another way to ask the above question might be: would stories similar in content and tone and style to these two authers be considered for publication, especially if updated to more modern formats and sensabilities?
 

Feverfew

Acolyte
If they were I would certainly buy them. I know a lot of modern writers take cues from them, like Neil Gaiman or Brian Keane. Olaf Stapledon's "The First and Last Men" is one of the most intellectual anti emotional books I have ever read and I loved it.

I would say though that the rule of thumb is that emotion is the core of drama, and that is generally what sells the best.

I've only been writing stories seriously for a short time. Before that I wrote a lot of songs, and pretty much all of them were about something weird without a typical emotional core - more in the vein of Alice Cooper than Phish. Suffice to say, Rhianna never called or emailed me to ask my permission to record one of them, and make me big money, but I get it. I'm happy with my style of writing in that regard, and happy for it not to make me much money.

I would say stick to your guns and keep making things that you would love as a consumer. A small but dedicated fan base trumps a vast but indifferent one in my opinion.

On a side note if you have written stuff that's viewable online I'd love to read it- the names you dropped have peaked my interest!
 

Ryan_Crown

Troubadour
I suppose the real question is if you're looking to traditionally publish or indie/self publish. With traditional publishers, that's a reall crap shoot, because it seems like what they're looking for changes from month to month. But if you self publish, I guarantee you there is an audience out there, even if it is a small one. Finding them and letting them know about your book becomes a whole other challenge, but that is what it is.

I would agree with Feverfew -- write what you love, and what you would enjoy reading yourself. Writing something you're passionate about that doesn't have a large fanbase is still likely to find more success than something you're just going through the motions on because it's what is currently popular.
 

TWErvin2

Auror
Adding to what has been said above:

There are niche publishers and some of those have garnered a small but solid group of readers/customers, sometimes horror and/or zombie focused, or steam punk for example. But, like comparing all small publishers, not all are created equal--in competence, or contracts offered, or other areas...just as with larger publishers.

So, if larger publishers you feel might not be interested, you could consider the niche ones, if there are any in the more narrow area that your works might encompass.
 

Incanus

Auror
If they were I would certainly buy them. I know a lot of modern writers take cues from them, like Neil Gaiman or Brian Keane. Olaf Stapledon's "The First and Last Men" is one of the most intellectual anti emotional books I have ever read and I loved it.

I would say though that the rule of thumb is that emotion is the core of drama, and that is generally what sells the best.

I've only been writing stories seriously for a short time. Before that I wrote a lot of songs, and pretty much all of them were about something weird without a typical emotional core - more in the vein of Alice Cooper than Phish. Suffice to say, Rhianna never called or emailed me to ask my permission to record one of them, and make me big money, but I get it. I'm happy with my style of writing in that regard, and happy for it not to make me much money.

I would say stick to your guns and keep making things that you would love as a consumer. A small but dedicated fan base trumps a vast but indifferent one in my opinion.

On a side note if you have written stuff that's viewable online I'd love to read it- the names you dropped have peaked my interest!

Thank you Feverfew. This makes a great deal of sense to me. When you brought up music as an example, it really clicked with me. I play music as well, and what you said made me think of one of my favorites: Rush. They're cerebral, and have a not so small and fiercely loyal fan base. I should have thought of this before. It's very, very appealing.

I haven't done too much writing yet, and I asked this question to try to figure out the best course for me. I was planning to do a giant epic fantasy, did a bunch of world-building and novel planning. Now I'm writing short stories to try to experiment with different spheres of content (not sure else how to describe this). I started two pieces almost at the same time: A sort of relationship story, and a wild story of a scholarly sorcerer who travels into another dimension. This latter one was to be purely for fun and a place for me to use up all my archaic and overboard vocabulary words so I'd be less liable to use them in the more 'mainstream' stuff. Well the first story is falling flat as a pancake--there are many things I like about it, but its ultimately not succeeding where it should be. I'm finding that I seem to have something of a knack for the over-wrought prose and the stoic intellectual. At least more so. It sure is a lot of fun to let my imagination and word-hoard roam freely. I'd still like to learn to depict emotions and use drama, though.

I currently have three completed short stories, of varying types. There is one in the Showcase called 'Visiting Time', but look at this only for the writing style--the content is of limited scope. This is the earliest and worst of the three. PM me and I'll send you the others if you'd like. The one I'd really like you to see isn't ready yet, but I'm turning back to it now.

There is much to ponder...
 
Hi,

Publishable? Yes - but I suspect only as indie. Trade publishing is about more than just great writing, it's about commercial possibilities, and their works would be not just outdated but not commercially popular today. To be fair even Tolkein would have issues in 2014. Great writing, majestic imagery and uplifting stories? How does that fit with the current desire for grimdark, and fast paced action which seems to be everywhere?

These people were great writers, but great writers of their time. This is no longer their time. I have no doubt that should these men be alive now and in their writing peak, they would write different works as the 21st century reshapes their world view, though works that would still be of an exceptional standard.

Having said that I can just imagine how well the current writing advice we are bombarded with these days would go down with JRRT. Get rid of the purple prose, and the passive voice? Cut the description? Get to the plot? You can trim your word count? I somehow don't see that going down well.

Cheers, Greg.
 

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
Sorry guys, just saw this.

If you're going to write in the style of Lovecraft or Clark Ashton Smith, I think you're looking at more of a niche market. If you do a good job of it, you can sell short stories in that vein to paying markets. I don't know that you'd have much luck with something novel length, but if you look at Dan Simmons' works like The Terror and Drood, you can certainly see that novel-length works in a more archaic, wordy style can be published by mainstream publishers and in fact do quite well. However, keep in mind Simmons had an established reputation and a list of successful novels under this belt before he wrote The Terror. Had an unknown author send that book in, it might have been a harder sell. Great book though.

If you want to write Lovecraft-style work but not necessarily emulate the style of that period of writing, then certainly you can have it published by a mainstream publisher. There have been a number of authors who have incorporated Lovecraftian themes, references, and the like into works with a style all their own. Look at Caitlin R. Keirnan for an example of someone who has had success with it.

With self-publishing, anything goes in terms of being able to get the work out there. If you write Lovecraftian stories and do an excellent job, I suspect you'd find an audience in self-publishing. Lovecraft, Smith, and others are still popular among certain readers, and if you create stories on par with those old authors there is no reason to think those same readers wouldn't come to you.
 

ThinkerX

Myth Weaver
I admit to drawing inspiration from a latter day (present day) disciple of Lovecraft: One Gary Myers. His 'House of the Worm' has ten short tales in Lovecraft's style set in the 'Dreamlands,' plus he's had another couple dozen (?) appear elsewhere. But this is short fiction, and unless you are reading real deep into the Lovecraft Mythos, his name is not one you are likely to encounter.
 

Incanus

Auror
Thanks for chiming in, Steerpike. Some very good points. I do perceive that the Lovecraft/Smith style is not very conducive to novels, but its good to know there are some viable outlets for this type of material.

I've got to somehow turn my dilemma on its head, or otherwise come up for a recipe for lemonade with my crop of lemons. I've been setting up for 'epic fantasy' seriously for more than two years now, but my strengths (so far as I see them) seem to be denser, archaic prose, not so much character driven, as concept and imagery driven. Of course, some epic fantasy isn't necessarily character or drama driven--look at LOTR.

It is interesting, and informative, to see that another writer has done this sort of thing successfully, AFTER publishing more 'traditional' stories.

This is what I need to figure out going forward: are these two separate paths--prosey short stories, and lengthy epics; or is there a way to conflate the two?

(Thanks ThinkerX--I'll look into Gary Myers. Are there any mags or outlets that boast this type of material in general that I should be aware of? I'd like to read current stuff that is in a similar vein to that which I'm contemplating and working on.)
 

ThinkerX

Myth Weaver
I have not read any, but Ralan.com lists several magazines that deal in weird or dark fiction. I believe a couple of them are dedicated to Lovecraftian type tales:

Ralan.com - Pro Markets Page

Most of what I have read came from 'Chaosium' - a game company that reprinted large numbers of tales by Lovecraft and his subsequent followers. Chaosium has also released a number of novels set in Lovecraft's world, though the 'game imprint' shows through in a couple of these. Additionally, quite a few authors have published individual novels or even series thereof set in Lovecraft's domain. Daniel Harms, who put together the 'Cthulu Mythos Encyclopedia' included a twenty two page bibliography at that back of that tome - and admits its incomplete.

I also see new anthologies of Lovecraft type tales on Amazon now and again.
 

Mythopoet

Auror
Everything is publishable now. Whether or not anything can attract a sizable audience is entirely up to readers.
 

Incanus

Auror
Everything is publishable now. Whether or not anything can attract a sizable audience is entirely up to readers.

I take it you are referring to self-publishing. Depending on the material I end up with, this is an option for me. However, this would be my second choice, ideally. I have absolutely zero skills, little interest, and no experience, in: business, marketing, graphic design, distrubution, and generally anything 'pushy' or 'self-promot-y'. I can write some, and have some editing proclivities, though more for grammar and polish, than for content.

This is all back-burner stuff, because I first need to generate more material...
 
Hi Incanus,

I know what you mean about the lack of skills and interest in a lot of the publishing process. So many don't realise just what a steep learning curve it is to indie publish - or at least to do it well. For me I have advanced the skills I needed to to publish the books, and ignored the rest. But there are some step ups available. You can hire editors, and buy covers at least. And my thought is that if your heart is in writing in a genre and style which is not mainstream in 2014, then indie is the way to go rather than trying to get agents who will only say it's not commercial.

But that is the wonder of indie publishing and ebooks. Now you have the option to write and publish the books you want to, instead of the ones that agents think will sell.

Cheers, Greg.
 

Mythopoet

Auror
I have absolutely zero skills, little interest, and no experience, in: business, marketing, graphic design, distrubution, and generally anything 'pushy' or 'self-promot-y'.

Incanus, if you end up trad published you will have to market and promote yourself. All the publishers expect it these days. They will do little to promote you unless you're a big name or somehow landed a huge advance (at least mid 6 figures) but they will expect you to build your own promotional platform. On the other hand, if you self publish, you can market or promote as you feel like it or not. (And it's still possible to be successful without promotion.) There's no one to pressure you but yourself.

If you want to have your writing published you need to learn business. It doesn't matter how you're published. Writing to publish IS a business. All authors need to have business skills. Fortunately, these skills are not hard to learn if you put some effort into it. There are good resources all over the internet. Think about it.
 

Philip Overby

Staff
Article Team
Mythpoet is right. Even if you're a traditionally published writer, you still have to do promotion of some sort. Your publisher will actually expect that of you. They may want you to do readings, go to conventions, and the like. Luckily, as she mentioned, self-publishing allows you to do as little or as much as you like depending on how you want to function as a writer. It's entirely possible to sell lots of copies of your books even if you don't promote, but the best way to probably do that is to write more books. Your writing in a way will be the way you promote yourself.
 

Incanus

Auror
And you are all quite correct, of course. Thanks, everyone, for a dose of reality.

One thing my statement above did not address: It is one thing to try to 'promote' or 'sell' a new checking account to a walk-in bank customer while working a 9-to-5 job, and something else entirely to try to push a novel that you created yourself and (in my case, at least) believe in. In fact, it's a world of difference. Doing readings, going to conventions--it may not be at the top of my list, but it sounds at least like a little fun.

I plan on writing the kind of books and stories I would like to read. I'll let traditional publishing have a crack at them. If they don't bite, eventually, I'll look into self-pub.

In the meantime, write, write, write...
 

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
At what point can self-promotion backfire? Maybe it isn't the amount but how it is handled. There are a lot of self-published authors who, in my view, over-promote online and it really puts me off wanting to try their books.

Someone posted this cartoon on G+, and it accurately captures how I sometimes view self-promotion:

001-buy-my-book.png
 

T.Allen.Smith

Staff
Moderator
I agree Steerpike. I think having a few works out, not just one, is the best marketing. I have no data to back this up, just what my gut tells me. That feeling is largely based on my reaction to promotion much like that detailed in the cartoon above. There seems to be a good deal of it.
 
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