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Ship Building and sailing.
- Thread starter Shire
- Start date
musycpyrate
Scribe
Yes, yes, YES! These links are just what I needed.
And, of course, Patrick O'Brian.
It's worth mentioning that ship technology changed over the centuries, so it's relevant to ask what sort of ship.
It's worth mentioning that ship technology changed over the centuries, so it's relevant to ask what sort of ship.
- Thread starter
- #6
A ship from the Medieval time period. Id say something similar to a scottish fleet. Perhaps English.
Malik
Auror
I'm not gonna bust your chops too hard on this, because you're new and for all I know you're trying to knock out your 50 for NanoWriMo. But the fun part of writing fantasy is researching it.
No joke and no exaggeration: if I was writing a book that centered around sailing on an old-time ship, I'd set aside a month next summer and I'd be on the computer right now setting up a gig crewing a schooner.
That said, there weren't really "ships" back in the Medieval period. The big, romantic Dread Pirate Roberts carracks you're probably thinking of didn't happen until the 1500's, well into the Renaissance. Medieval ships were generally small open boats, under 30 feet, and exceptionally dangerous for travel. The Viking knarr, which was pretty much a big wherry with a lug rig, and other cog-type open boats, were the typical sailing ship. There were rowed galleys, but they couldn't traverse open oceans.
The Norse developed a type of sail, called a lug rig, that was different from the square sails that the rest of Europe used. The lug rig had a small section of sail ahead of the mast, on a boom and spar, instead of a loose-footed sail affixed squarely.
When a modern sail fills with air, it creates an airfoil, like an airplane wing, that can pull the boat into the wind to a certain degree. We call it going to windward, or "pointing." Square-sailed boats couldn't do this; square-riggers would sit at harbor for months waiting for the winds to be right before they could launch. The Norse, however, had developed a sail with a flexible boom and spar -- the lug rig -- that would bend around the mast, creating the same airfoil we use today. They could point. No one else could.
Mainland Europe didn't grasp this concept for hundreds of years. In the meantime, they believed that the Norse boats were magical machinations of Satan because they could sail into shore in the morning when the wind was blowing away from shore, spend the day looting, and then sail out at the end of the day when the wind was blowing in off the water and the Mainlanders couldn't give chase because their square-riggers could only sail downwind. The Vikings pretty much conquered everything they conquered because of their sail shape.
I'm not saying you have to use this little piece of history -- I'd prefer if you don't, because I intend to use it later in my series -- but I learned all this from having a sandwich with a guy at a boat show once, maybe fifteen years ago, a guy my age who was building a reproduction of a knarr with a balanced lug rig. I thought it might be cool to learn something about this boat that was from the time period of my book, so I bought a pair of grinders and two Cokes, and he gladly told me more about sails than I wanted to ever know. I wrote it down thinking I could use it someday. I still have the notepad with the guy's sketches someplace. I remember the small hole in his sweater, the dark callouses on his knuckles and on the sides of his thumbs, the one tooth in his lower jaw that was set further back than the others; his teeth were white but he'd never had braces. Maybe I'll use all this someday. Maybe someone else will, too, now.
But this is the fun part of writing. Don't ask people to do your homework for you. You're missing out on so much. Go. Explore. Experience. Have fun. Then write down what you find and tell people someday.
No joke and no exaggeration: if I was writing a book that centered around sailing on an old-time ship, I'd set aside a month next summer and I'd be on the computer right now setting up a gig crewing a schooner.
That said, there weren't really "ships" back in the Medieval period. The big, romantic Dread Pirate Roberts carracks you're probably thinking of didn't happen until the 1500's, well into the Renaissance. Medieval ships were generally small open boats, under 30 feet, and exceptionally dangerous for travel. The Viking knarr, which was pretty much a big wherry with a lug rig, and other cog-type open boats, were the typical sailing ship. There were rowed galleys, but they couldn't traverse open oceans.
The Norse developed a type of sail, called a lug rig, that was different from the square sails that the rest of Europe used. The lug rig had a small section of sail ahead of the mast, on a boom and spar, instead of a loose-footed sail affixed squarely.
When a modern sail fills with air, it creates an airfoil, like an airplane wing, that can pull the boat into the wind to a certain degree. We call it going to windward, or "pointing." Square-sailed boats couldn't do this; square-riggers would sit at harbor for months waiting for the winds to be right before they could launch. The Norse, however, had developed a sail with a flexible boom and spar -- the lug rig -- that would bend around the mast, creating the same airfoil we use today. They could point. No one else could.
Mainland Europe didn't grasp this concept for hundreds of years. In the meantime, they believed that the Norse boats were magical machinations of Satan because they could sail into shore in the morning when the wind was blowing away from shore, spend the day looting, and then sail out at the end of the day when the wind was blowing in off the water and the Mainlanders couldn't give chase because their square-riggers could only sail downwind. The Vikings pretty much conquered everything they conquered because of their sail shape.
I'm not saying you have to use this little piece of history -- I'd prefer if you don't, because I intend to use it later in my series -- but I learned all this from having a sandwich with a guy at a boat show once, maybe fifteen years ago, a guy my age who was building a reproduction of a knarr with a balanced lug rig. I thought it might be cool to learn something about this boat that was from the time period of my book, so I bought a pair of grinders and two Cokes, and he gladly told me more about sails than I wanted to ever know. I wrote it down thinking I could use it someday. I still have the notepad with the guy's sketches someplace. I remember the small hole in his sweater, the dark callouses on his knuckles and on the sides of his thumbs, the one tooth in his lower jaw that was set further back than the others; his teeth were white but he'd never had braces. Maybe I'll use all this someday. Maybe someone else will, too, now.
But this is the fun part of writing. Don't ask people to do your homework for you. You're missing out on so much. Go. Explore. Experience. Have fun. Then write down what you find and tell people someday.
hots_towel
Minstrel
my memory may be a little off, but i remember hearing about roman barges that had decks strong enough to transported limestone blocks stacked (almost perfectly) on top of one another.
also, just because you are adhering to one point in history based on one continent (im guessing medieval europe), dosent mean is has to BE medieval Europe in every sense. the fact of the matter is, it's not Europe in the middle ages. If there was a need to use the ocean more, say for exploring, trading, fishing ect., then SOMEONE would have come up with ways to make sailing safer and more convenient.
ex: my story (like EVERY other fantasy) is set in roughly a 13-14th century europe/middle east. however, its not the exact same thing. Next to a country that is my equivalent of an england/german mix, there is a clash of a cold water current/warm water current, making an ideal fishing spot right off their shores. Because this is NOT the case for either Germany or England, i can now work from there as to everything that this country would develop for further exploiting this advantage. such as fishing boats that can haul more fish, better equipped ships that can guard the fishing ships from pirates, and larger ports to generate more revenue.
See, by making these people have more reliance on the ocean for income, they focus more on developing their oceanic knowledge. something England didnt do until the renaissance, and Germany until WW1 because it wasn't convenient for them until that time. So if seafaring is something commonly done in your world, then it would only make sense that they would soon develop faster, stronger, more maneuverable ships earlier in time.
Shot version, your world isn't Europe in the middle ages, it helps to research, yes, but you don't need to bring in EVERY detail about it. trust me, fleshing out your world is VERY rewarding. i hope that made sense lol
also, just because you are adhering to one point in history based on one continent (im guessing medieval europe), dosent mean is has to BE medieval Europe in every sense. the fact of the matter is, it's not Europe in the middle ages. If there was a need to use the ocean more, say for exploring, trading, fishing ect., then SOMEONE would have come up with ways to make sailing safer and more convenient.
ex: my story (like EVERY other fantasy) is set in roughly a 13-14th century europe/middle east. however, its not the exact same thing. Next to a country that is my equivalent of an england/german mix, there is a clash of a cold water current/warm water current, making an ideal fishing spot right off their shores. Because this is NOT the case for either Germany or England, i can now work from there as to everything that this country would develop for further exploiting this advantage. such as fishing boats that can haul more fish, better equipped ships that can guard the fishing ships from pirates, and larger ports to generate more revenue.
See, by making these people have more reliance on the ocean for income, they focus more on developing their oceanic knowledge. something England didnt do until the renaissance, and Germany until WW1 because it wasn't convenient for them until that time. So if seafaring is something commonly done in your world, then it would only make sense that they would soon develop faster, stronger, more maneuverable ships earlier in time.
Shot version, your world isn't Europe in the middle ages, it helps to research, yes, but you don't need to bring in EVERY detail about it. trust me, fleshing out your world is VERY rewarding. i hope that made sense lol
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