Hunting Question

[Androxine Vortex]

In the opening scene in a new novel I am working on, there is a hunter who is trying to kill a deer. He is going be using a throwing axe (Wait...What? No spear? No Bow? i know but it's his preferred weapon...He's an orc!) to kill it so he has to be closer because he's not using a bow. So what would be the minimum distance you think he could be at without the deer detecting him?

And is it spelled ax or axe because when I type, "axe" the spellcheck says it's wrong.

[Saigonnus]

I myself have managed to get within about 15 feet or so before the deer looked up... depends on whether or not the orc is smart enough to be upwind (very necessary and basically meaning the wind passes the deer before the orc) Also it will depend alot on the underbrush and growth. If there are alot of bushes etc... it means more concealment. It also depends on the "domestication" of the deer (i.e. used to having orcs or whatnot trampling through the trees). I guess it will depend mostly on how smart the orc is to how close he can get.

Also, i'd question the motives of the orc. If he is smart enough to hunt, he's probably smart enough to use the most efficient tool for the job, and for hunting, a throwing ax probably isn't that efficient. Orcs may not use bows generally (according to most sources) preferring more mundane tools like spears, etc... but whose to say they wouldn't employ snares or traps as a way of catching prey so all they'd need to do is herd the deer to where the trap is and hope it falls into it. :P

[Telcontar]

I agree that you should change the weapon. A thrown weapon that spins (ie, axe, knife, etc) isn't good for hunting because a slight mistake in judgement will result in a harmless hit. Clonking a deer in the flank with the haft of a throwing axe gets you no venison.

I suggest you have the orc use a throwing spear, instead. I vaguely recall that some cultures have hunted deer with thrown spears. They can be thrown further with accuracy and greater success. You still retain the lack of a bow and the use of a weapon that relies more on strength (assuming that is what you were going for).

If you do use a spear, then I believe the effective range for a human throwing a spear (actually, pilum in this case, which is heavier) is around 20 meters. Adjust accordingly if your orcs are stronger and more accurate with thrown weapons.

[Steerpike]

Androxine - my advice, no disrespect intended to the posts above, is to stick with your vision of the character and not to change him into how someone else envisions him. You seem to have a pretty clear idea that he prefers to use an axe. I don't think there is anything out of bounds about establishing that he is good enough with an axe that he can throw it at a deer and take the animal down. I agree with all of Telcontar's observations about why an axe, in general, would be a less desirable weapon. But by showing your orc using one in just this manner, what you've really done is established that he is so good at using an axe that the efficiency differences between an axe and a spear just don't exist for him. I don't think readers will have a problem with that.

[Butterfly]

It's Ax for America, and Axe for Britain (I think)

[T.Allen.Smith]

I come from a family of deer hunters that go as primitive as possible. They only archery hunt (recurve & longbow only) & many of them make their own bows and arrows. So I can give you some idea of how difficult it can be to kill a deer with a minimal set up.

First things first... In my opinion the early posters are correct. If you write a hunter killing a deer with a throwing axe, a ton of readers will tune out right then & there. It just isn't realistic. Even in a fantasy setting, actions have to be at least plausible.

Onto the actual hunting preparation:
1) Most primitive style hunting is more effective from a tree or from a blind. We always hunted from tree stands. We would camouflage the area behind us with brush to break up the outline of our bodies. If done well it can be extremely difficult to see someone obscured in this manner.

2) Deer are color blind animals but they have an acute sense for motion. Even when camouflaged and set with a proper backdrop, your motions must be slow and steady. The best time to draw & shoot is when the target looks the other way or drops its head to feed. Other animals present can complicate the issue.

3) Scent is an issue (maybe even more so for an Orc). Deer have incredibly acute olfactory senses. Its not always possible to be down wind when tree hunting. The way winds shift, you will not be able to ensure this. Archery hunters often employ masking scents. People have used them for ages. Typically, it is the urine of other animal (fox is particularly good as they are non- threatening to a deer but alert). At certain times of the year hunters use the urine of female deer that are in estrous. Sex can be a powerful motivator to ignore danger.

4) Sound. Deer have very good hearing. An axe being thrown will have a sound which will cause the animal to jump & run. It is a slow weapon in comparison to a bow. I have missed deer because a bow string twanged on my arm. The reaction of a deer is a downward ducking and then bolting (usually). It is also noisier in flight. This makes an ax a very bad hunting choice.


All the above being said, this is a fantasy setting. You can overcome anything with creativity... Just make it plausible.

I hope this helps. At the least, maybe it gives some perspective.

[Androxine Vortex]

Thanks everyone. I admit even while writing the rough draft for this scene I wasn't sure about using an ax. I have heard stories about people killing deer with throwing knives before so I mean it wouldn't be impossible, just maybe not the best idea. I'm really not sure if I want him to use an ax or a spear. I agree 100% that a spear would be the better choice but my character is incredibly stubborn and does everything his own way. Again not sure if I'm going to change it or not.

Okay well the scene I have so far is that the deer is drinking from a brook and the orc is sneaking up to it. He's walking on naturally smooth trail of rocks to muffle his sound instead of crunching leaves. Would 20-25 yards away be plausible to throw a spear or a throwing ax keeping in mind that orcs in my setting are stronger than humans?

[Steerpike]

Tomahawk
The tomahawk was another hunting tool that was extremely valuable. In fact, it was a staple weapon not only of the Iroquois, but of most Native American tribes. Tomahawks were lightweight and resembled the modern day ax. As a result, they could be thrown at prey and were ideal for hunting deer.

Iroquois Hunting Tools | Entertainment Guide

Tomahawk
The tomahawk is, basically, the Native American version of an axe. Hatchet-like, it served a range of purposes, including as a hand weapon. Sometimes, it was tossed at an opponent, a fighting technique still popular in reenactments because of the weapon's enduring popularity (though not all American Indian tribes and people prominently used the tool or weapon). For the Iroquois, the tomahawk was used in hand-to-hand combat, or as a thrown weapon from horseback or long distance. Traditionally, the Iroquois made their tomahawks out of stone (head) and wood (handle).

Traditional Iroquois Weapons | eHow.com

There are a number of other links regarding not only the tomahawk, but other thrown axes, as well as references to axes for hunting (I came across two references to Vikings in just a brief search, for example). There are also hunter's forums with discussions on hunting with axes and thrown axes (which apparently can be a lot more reliable than a knife).

In any event, even if people in the real world never used them for such, there is nothing "unrealistic" in having your orc hunt with an axe, particularly in a fantasy setting. I've seen people throw axes at wooden targets with great accuracy and really do a lot of damage to the target. The idea that you couldn't do the same with a deer makes no sense.

Again, by using an axe all you are doing is establishing that your orc character has enough skill with the weapon to be able to hunt effectively with it. You don't want to make decisions about your story based on the idea that readers might arbitrarily have a problem with those decisions. Using an axe for hunting isn't impossible and doesn't violate any laws of the universe. There are any number of reasons your character might use one, including that it might be the only weapon he has access to, or, as you hint, it is simply the weapon he is best with.

No reason not to go forward with it if that is a distinctive aspect of your character.

[Androxine Vortex]

Thank you Steerpike. You I think you went the extra mile there with those links, haha. I'm no hunter so if I were to use a throwing ax (or even any other weapon) where exactly would be a good place for the weapon to hit to kill? I mean it's not a gun so it has to be a pretty good and hard hit. If the orc would have to be about twenty yards away to avoid detection would the ax lose enough momentum to not kill the deer? And do you think that twenty yards is too close especially for an orc (strong scent)

I'm kind of disappointed that I don't know this stuff as I am part native American
ANCESTORS Y U NO HELP?

[Steerpike]

That I do not know. I'm not a hunter either While I was looking at the links, I think I remember someone mentioning that tomahawks could be thrown accurately and with force at about twenty feet in competitions. One guy claimed to hit prey at fifty feet, which is just shy of your twenty yards, but I don't know if the claim is true.

In any event, it seems like having a strong orc in a fantasy story take down a deer at twenty yards is within the realm of plausibility. Someone else will have to give you a good idea of where to hit the animal. The flank presents the biggest target, of course.