Magic System Critique

[R.H. Smith]

Hey all,

Would like some critiquing and to bounce around ideas regarding the mechanics for my magic system.
Ok, here we go!

Magic is something not everyone has. More importantly, it is something you are born with, much as how in the Marvel universe the mutants have the x-gene factor (but more in line with your lineage). So if you have dragons or elven blood, you have a very high chance of having that magic gene.

Now, as magic is not as widespread as it normally is, magic in my world is very, very powerful. Add to that that your only limitation is how creative you can get in "creating" the spells, and they aren't even spells. It is language based, so to burn that log, you have innumerable ways to complete that process, but you must know the "Ancient Language", which is the catalyst for all magic. This Ancient language comes from the Dragons, the original bad-assess. As the elves ended up making a pact with the Dragons, their language is included in the Ancient Language. Most everyone can learn Elven, though Dragonese is extremely difficult, near impossible to know (unless you're a Dragon ) Going back to innumerable ways to complete, you can say in the Ancient Language, "I want that log to burn" and the log will burn. You can change it up by saying, "I only want the organic material to burn", which would militarize that "spell" and turn it into a weapon.

All magic has costs, and that cost is your life force. Now, there are ways to circumvent this, kind of finding loopholes in the system. The more specific and detailed you make your "spell", the more powerful your magic can be, thus the only limitation is your imagination. Magic can turn you into a near immortal god, but it can do that for everyone, so the gods that created the Ancient Language made sure that safeguards are in place.

The biggest safeguard is that magic is also religion based. So a dwarf, though speaking Elven, cannot really do too much as they don't believe in the Elven deities, and vice-versa. Also, magic spells are more a type of prayer which the god or goddess that governs that religion can accept or deny. Due to that specific nature, spell-battles are somewhat uncommon, as most times the god or goddess will grant their avatar their request. So two mages battling it out can wipe out an entire city.

Please feel free to poke holes in my theories and challenge me to create a better magic system. I will answer all as best I can. Thanks!

 

[Queshire]

Huh, have you really only joined Mythic Scribes this month? For some reason your name, or maybe just your avatar seems really familiar to me? Well, in any case, if no one else has said it yet then Welcome to the Site!

Now I'm going to tear your magic system to shreds. >= 3

As of writing this the top four threads in the world building forums are all magic system threads. Lately that has gotten me thinking about the role of magic systems in relation to world building and I'll be applying some of what I've thought about here. I apologize if I come across as harsh or disapproving. I assure you that my only goal is to provide constructive criticism. Now, then...

Magic is something not everyone has. More importantly, it is something you are born with, much as how in the Marvel universe the mutants have the x-gene factor (but more in line with your lineage).

I'm not that big of a fan of this route. It's just personal preference. Nothing more to say.

So if you have dragons or elven blood, you have a very high chance of having that magic gene.

Now, as magic is not as widespread as it normally is,

Define normally here. There's been quite a lot of mutants in the Marvel-verse at times and even in fantasy stories where you can learn magic through study you generally don't see too many wizards.

and they aren't even spells.

I like this. It's pretty common in modern day to have magic that basically works like computer program. You run the program (spell) and it does a single specific thing. (See Harry Potter.)

It is language based, so to burn that log, you have innumerable ways to complete that process, but you must know the "Ancient Language", which is the catalyst for all magic. This Ancient language comes from the Dragons, the original bad-assess. As the elves ended up making a pact with the Dragons, their language is included in the Ancient Language.

I have to be honest, when I read this I immediately thought of the magic in Eragon.

Most everyone can learn Elven, though Dragonese is extremely difficult, near impossible to know (unless you're a Dragon )

So is it a single Ancient Language or is it that both Elven and Draconic (sorry, D&D nerd here) are counted under the umbrella of Ancient Languages? Or are they different dialects of a single language?

Going back to innumerable ways to complete, you can say in the Ancient Language, "I want that log to burn" and the log will burn. You can change it up by saying, "I only want the organic material to burn", which would militarize that "spell" and turn it into a weapon.

How much subconscious control do mages have over their magic? If they aimed "I only want the organic material to burn" at a knight on horseback would it only affect the knight, both the knight and the horse, or the knight, horse and the entire forest behind him?

All magic has costs, and that cost is your life force.

How does spent life force manifest? Are there twenty year old mages that look eight? Does firing off a fireball give you a cold? Does your heart pound like a jackhammer? Is there shooting pains?

Magic can turn you into a near immortal god, but it can do that for everyone, so the gods that created the Ancient Language made sure that safeguards are in place.

Stopping dark sorcerers through grammar. Nice.

The biggest safeguard is that magic is also religion based. So a dwarf, though speaking Elven, cannot really do too much as they don't believe in the Elven deities, and vice-versa. Also, magic spells are more a type of prayer which the god or goddess that governs that religion can accept or deny.

If magic is governed by the gods why would they care enough about dragons to make their language the language of magic? Similarly, why would they care about some treaty between elves and dragons?

Why do the Dwarves let this stand? Why don't they petition their gods to have their language included as well? Or if the Dwarven Gods want to protect the Dwarves, why haven't they tried to get it included on their own?

I am rather fond of magic as prayer though. It also makes me wonder if there would be a difference in power between two spells if one was phrased more politely than the other.

Due to that specific nature, spell-battles are somewhat uncommon, as most times the god or goddess will grant their avatar their request. So two mages battling it out can wipe out an entire city.

So each god can do pretty much whatever they want with magic so long as it's addressed to them? Is there a limit to that? I mentioned adding new languages to the ancient language above so something like that. What lines have to be crossed before the other gods gang up on a wayward one and shut them down?

I also have some more general questions.

>First off, is the Elven and Dragonesse the languages that their respective races use in every day life? If so, would they risk accidentally burning something when talking about fire?

>What do commoners think about magic?

>What do the nobles think about magic?

>How has magic shaped the taboos and cultural customs of your world?

>How has magic affected how the population in your world thinks about speech as a whole?

>What tactics do you use against a rogue magic user?

 

[R.H. Smith]

Hey Queshire,

This is great! This is exactly what I am looking for. I'm an ex-army ranger so I can take the beating I completely appreciate your honesty and know you are only trying to get me to be the best me I can be! Uugh, that sounded so militarily cliched Anywayz, on to answer your questions as best I can.

To define normal for you in terms of how widespread magic is, lets say only about a 15-20 percent of the total population can wield magic.

Yes it does sound alot like Eragon. I never actually read Eragon until after I had done the mechanics for my magic system, and found them to be quite similar, even the term Ancient Language.

Ok, as for the Ancient Language let me break it down. Technically the Ancient Language are all the languages spoken from the "Elder" races you can say, such as the Elves, Dragons and Dwarfs. So in total there are those races, plus human. Dragons and Elves both have the same deity Elmesrivae, a goddess, while Dwarves have Aenvylxtyl, their god. Both of them created the Dragons, then each created their respective races. So the Ancient Language is technically all languages used by the Elder races. Humans can wield magic, because like anything you can learn a language and choose to follow the god or goddess, but you must have that natural affinity, hence the "magic gene".

You have some subconscious control, but this is regulated by the fact that you must speak aloud, whether whispering or shouting exactly what you want how you want it So the more detailed the "prayer", the longer the "spell" will take to verbalize. For obvious reasons, this can be a hindrance when battling, so magic users have a work-around. They can speak the spell, but leave the last word unfinished, holding off indefinitely the spell until that "trigger" word is said. They must be very careful though, if they speak that word without paying attention, they release the spell. So as long as you properly convey through spoken word what you want, making sure inflections are proper (inflections are very important as the minute differences between meanings in words sometimes boil down to inflection as opposed to syntax) it would take quite a long sentence to say, "I want to immolate the knight, but not the horse".

Life force manifests by way of regeneration, this by way of natural rest, consuming food, etc. Depending on how much magic any particular prayer/spell requires, you can feel exhausted, a little winded, or on your death-bed. Again, there are ways around this, such as proxying the taxation through another living thing, be it individual, flora or fauna....if you can think it and speak it, then you most probably can do it. Sure, a magic user can say, "I want to travel to the stars without dying", or something like that. The gods would very likely reject that prayer.

Inherently, all Elder races have that magic gene. Re-stating, Dwarves are included in the A.L. I want to try to portray that everything impacts/affects magic using. Culture, for example. Elves are very fine, regal, more on the mentally devious side. Dwarves are rugged, more in the mentality of construction workers. As such their prayers are influenced by how, say, an Elf might use flowery descriptions while Dwarves are more to the point. In this sense, it is also important to note that both god and goddess are at war with each other.

There are certain natural laws that not even the gods can cross. They cannot take or create life, only shape it, so that, for example a chosen one can be given an easier life in the sense that they would be born beautiful, tall, with great charisma, etc.
The only way gods can really affect lives are through their avatars, or chosen ones or mainly whomever can cast magic, prays to them and what they pray for affects an outcome that one of the deities wants.

Now, on to your general questions:

>They are the language of everyday life, though that is where the subconscious control comes in. If you say, "I want to burn that house down", but you don't really mean it, then the gods/universe knows it and won't dole out the magic. Reckless magic users don't live very long.

>Magic is kind of far removed from commoners minds. Think of it as you know what NASA is, and you know what NASA does, but that's about the extent of your relationship with NASA. You can research it, but without the magic gene, what good would that do besides having the theoretic knowledge of it. You have too much on your plate on a daily basis to give magic more than a once over maybe twice a day

>Same thing here for nobles, except they have the capital to maybe hire some magic users and whatnot, unless they have the magic gene themselves. Quick note, humans can only have the magic gene if their lineage has some Elven or Draconic blood. Dammit, and what pisses me off is that it sounds so much like Eragon, due to the fact that I also have Dragon Masters..as opposed to Dragon Riders.

>Magic is something known and accepted in my world, yet since such a small number of the populace can actually use it, it's not an everyday thing. Some people can go their whole lives and not see anything magical, such as someone casting a spell or such. Magic's taboo is that if you wield magic, you are no longer part of normal society. You are kind of ostracized in the sense that only another magic wielder can relate to you. This is mainly from a human point of view. In the Elder races magic is extremely commonplace.

>As such that speech is affected in the population is due precisely to knowing the A.L. A work around that a lot of human magic users do is they initially have another magic user hit them with a translation spell. With that, a human with the magic gene can now understand the A.L. and cast spells using their native tongue. This has many unintended consequences, as humans don't really have that understanding of the inflections needed to properly ask for the spells/prayers. As such, unless you spend years studying and learning, many mistakes, many costly, arise.

>There tend not to be too many rogue users, as spell-battles require a very quick mind and wit. You see, the devil is in the details. The more details the prayer/spell has, the more powerful it can potentially be. Not to mention imagination plays a very big part. You think outside the box, you can pray for your opponent to have a brain aneurysm, or that the ground crumble beneath their feet. You'd have to say that really fast, and your opponent is doing the same thing. Not to mention that since magic taxes your life force, you can constantly (as long as you're conscious, so sleeping is very vulnerable) have magical barriers protecting you. All in all, it's very hard to kill another extremely learned and educated magic user, unless you run them through with a sword.

Hope this answers some of your questions. Please continue to poke holes in my theories

Cheers!

 

[Michael K. Eidson]

I'll throw out a few things for you to consider. This is not intended as a critique, good or bad, of your system. If I help you in any way to solidify your magic system, I've accomplished something. I'm not looking for you to give answers here to the following questions, but am hoping you will answer them for yourself. So here goes...

If a person without the magic gene worships an appropriate deity and prays for a fireball to engulf an enemy, but speaks in a language that is not an Ancient Language, is the deity bound not to answer the prayer? Could the deity send the fireball in answer to the person's non-AL prayer if the deity so chose, and if so, how does that differ from what would happen if the one making the prayer spoke in the AL and had the magic gene?

If a non-AL-speaking human prayed for something more benign, say, a bit of rain during a drought to help the crops, is the deity even then bound to not respond to that prayer?

Can only worshipers who have the magic gene expect to have prayers of any type answered? Is there some distinction between the types of things deities will do in answer to a non-magic-based prayer and a magic-based prayer? If the common people can never expect their prayers to be answered, what other reasons are there for them to worship any deity? Are the devoutly religious people in the land primarily only magic-users?

If deities are the ones to choose whether magic happens, why is there a necessity for an Ancient Language to be involved? Why are the deities themselves not sufficient safeguards? Are they afraid they will be bombarded by requests for magic to be done? Are they in some way deaf to other languages? Are they also deaf to prayers from people who don't have the magic gene?

When a magic-user speaks the words for a spell that they don't finish immediately, does the deity involved ever forget exactly what was originally asked? How do the deities know what the trigger word is; do they read the minds of the magic-users, in which case, why do spells need to be vocalized? Do the deities ever get irritated, having to remember all these hanging spells, waiting for their last words to be uttered? Why does it have to be only a single word that is left unspoken? Why can't it be any conditional phrase? When a magic-user speaks the words for a spell, how does the deity know there is a trigger word still to come later? What if the trigger word were something like "slowly," and the rest of the spell stood alone without it? How does the deity know when a complete sentence has been uttered that there aren't more conditional clauses to follow in the next few seconds; is there always some sort of waiting period after the magic-user finishes speaking the last word of the spell, and how does that waiting period jive with the use of trigger words, which could cause an indeterminate delay?

If a magic-user attempts a spell and the deity does not grant it, does a loss of life energy still occur? What is the determining factor as to how much life energy is lost, and how the loss manifests?

That's all I have time for now. Hope it is helpful.

 

[Vaporo]

Could a magic user simply cast a spell to the extent of "All of my prayers/spells, including this one, will be received by my god exactly as I intend them to be received, so there is no confusion as to what I wish." so that they don't have to worry so much about how their spell is worded.

Or, even better, "When I wish it to be so, my will shall be instantly converted into a prayer/spell that acts in exactly the way that I intend it to." That way, they don't even need to speak to summon magic.

 

[R.H. Smith]

Well, the way I have it setup is that one of the safeguards is that the magic user has to vocalize what they want. The gods are omniscient, but somewhat limited due to natural laws that they cannot circumvent. Think of the Ancient Language as a firewall. Only when certain conditions are met will the gods reply/grant the prayers/spells being asked for. The humans don't have any deities, as such they are reliant on learning the Ancient Language and believing in whichever god they so choose. So they are at a disadvantage there already. Add to that they must perfect the inflection, depending on the dialect (Elvish, Draconian, Dwarvish, Troll, or Giant). The thing I want with this system is for the magic users to stop generalizing...It's complex in that the gods omnipotence, plus your inner voice mesh together to subconsciously guide and direct the spell/prayer how you want. No more point a finger and say, "Burn". Basically I gave humans the short end of the straw here. I want them to show how resilient they are, even when the Elder races greatly outpower them.