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Villains Using (Fictional) Racial Slurs

This is a discussion on "Villains Using (Fictional) Racial Slurs" in the World Building forum.

  1. #1
    Senior Member Mindfire's Avatar
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    Question Villains Using (Fictional) Racial Slurs

    To put it succinctly, there's a bit of racial/cultural/national tension in my book. It springs from a centuries-old conflict (i.e. backstory) with the Beorgians and Elyssians on one side and the Mavarians and Mako on the other. (Although the Beorgians and Elyssians sometimes have trouble getting along also due to philosophical differences.)
    If you wish to understand the roots of this conflict better as well as see a map for visual aid, open the spoiler tags.

    Spoiler for Backstory and Map:

    Click Image for Higher Resolution.


    Origins
    The four nations were once a single nation under one god- The Worldmaker, living in a fertile plain fed by winding rivers. But they grew arrogant and corrupt. They abused their power and resources. They grew complacent and careless, exploiting the land and destroying it in the process. As a punishment for their negligence, their civilization was destroyed by drought and sandstorms until it crumbled into ruin.

    After this event, they split into two factions. One faction, stubborn in their rebellion, built ships and sailed to better lands in the north where they forsook their ancestral faith and made new gods of metal and stone. The other faction repented, deciding to rebuild their homes and remain faithful.

    Eventually the northern faction began to think themselves superior the southern faction and invaded them, intent on making them into slaves. The southerners were not expecting an invasion and were unprepared. They split into two groups: one group retreated further into the desert, where they built lives for themselves among the sands and oases and built new cities over the old ruins. Their leader was Mavros the Visionary. Their descendants became the Mavarians. The other group retreated in to the dense jungle, and their descendants became the Mako, “The Tribe”. The Worldmaker gave them magic powers in order to help them defend themselves from the invaders and to make life easier for them in their hostile new homes, but also limited their powers to prevent them from abusing them.

    The northerners realized that pursuing into the desert and jungles would be a bad idea, so they were content to remain in the lands they had already subdued. Most of them returned north to the lands they had conquered. They named their country the “Land of Strength” and christened themselves the Beorgians. But some chose to colonize the southern territory they had acquired and managed to transform it into a fertile country. They resultant agricultural success brought economic stability that allowed them to pursue the arts and sciences and claim independence, separating them from their northern mother country.

    As a symbol of their autonomy, they abandoned the northern pagan religious system, but they also didn't want to adopt the monotheism of the southerners, who they deemed inferior. Their rulers decided this would be a good opportunity to grab power, so they wouldn't have to constantly share power with a religious sect. They issued a declaration that the gods did not exist and banned all public worship. They funded the arts and sciences with a bias towards atheism. After a few generations the idea that there were no gods became accepted as fact. They called their country the “Land of Enlightenment” and became the Elyssians.


    So as it stands, there is animosity between the "southern" nations and the "northern" nations. The conflict is most heated between the Beorgians and the Mavarians. So I thought that in order to make the tension between them a bit more believable, they should have insults and unpleasant epithets for one another. Here's where things get dicy.

    Mavarians sometimes refer to Beorgians as "water rats", because they are a nation heavily invested in seafaring and many of their most important deities are associated with water. The Beorgians and Elyssians have some fairly obvious insults for the Mavarians too, like "savages", "barbarians," "infidels", etc., because their country is less industrialized. But if you notice the location of Mavaria on my map, the country is largely desert, with some savannah and scrubland in the south end. So it stands to reason that the people who live there will be (for the most part anyway) dark-skinned. Whereast the people to the north and east of them will be lighter skinned. I modeled Mavarians on the people of northern Africa and Sudan, while I modeled Beorgians on Russians and the Elyssians largely on Romans/Italians.

    This presents a question. Given the fact that Mavarians are dark-skinned and are considered to be evil barbarian-wizards by the Beorgians and Elyssians, and given the common asssociation of darkness with evil, would it not also be logical that the Beorgians and Elyssians would also have distasteful epithets for the Mavarians that reference their skin color? I came up with a few, trying to stay as far away from real-world insults as possible: "dusk witches", "black devils", "burnt men". Likewise, I'm considering giving the Mavarians racial epithets for their enemies such as "sickly ones", "chalk men", and "alabastards". Ok, that last one might be a little too comedic in tone, but you get my point.

    But my interest goes beyond having a believable enmity between my nations. I also have an ulterior motive. The Hunger Games controversy. The books flew under my radar for the longest time, but the trailer for the movie has gained them a spot on my to-read list. However, a brief tour of the internet informed me that "fans" of the books were...unhappy (an understatement) that certain characters from the book were portrayed as people of color- even though they were explicitly stated to be such within the novel. How "fans" of the book could miss a detail like that eludes me, and the last thing I want is for my POC characters to be mistaken for or misrepresented as Caucasians*. The Hunger Games issue leads me to believe that description may not be enough to prevent this. The use of (invented) racial epithets by my characters, particularly villains, might serve as a method of reminding the readers in a fairly non-intrusive manner that not all of my characters are white. But there's also that fine line you tread of not wanting to offend people who resemble either side**.

    Can I get away with this? Given the context, would you guys advise for or against it?

    Of course, all of this takes for granted the admittedly vain assumption that my book will be widely read enough for this to matter at all, but I'm giving myself the benefit of the doubt.


    *Take a moment to compare the Earthsea books with the (terrible) Earthsea miniseries. There's a rather obvious difference. Also compare the Avatar: The Last Airbender cartoon with the (again, terrible) movie.
    **I'm black btw. Not sure how relevant that is.
    Last edited by Mindfire; 4-9-12 at 7:34 PM.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Jabrosky's Avatar
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    As someone who writes protagonists of color a lot (I'm white BTW), I always briefly describe their ethnic characteristics (e.g. skin color or hair texture) when introducing them. That said, your method is definitely a creative way of tackling the problem of whitewashing. As long as you don't write the story so that it sounds like you're endorsing your characters' prejudices, I say go for it.

    As an aside, I've noticed that if I describe only my protagonists' ethnic traits, people will assume that everyone else in the setting looks ethnically similar to the protagonist. In fact I've had one reader explicitly tell me this.

    P.S. Your avatar looks like a lighter-skinned black man (it must be the cornrows).
    Last edited by Jabrosky; 4-9-12 at 7:35 PM.

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  4. #3
    Senior Member Mindfire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabrosky View Post
    As someone who writes protagonists of color a lot (I'm white BTW), I always briefly describe their ethnic characteristics (e.g. skin color or hair texture) when introducing them. That said, your method is definitely a creative way of tackling the problem of whitewashing. As long as you don't write the story so that it sounds like you're endorsing your characters' prejudices, I say go for it.

    P.S. Your avatar looks like a lighter-skinned black man (it must be the cornrows).
    Thanks Jabrosky! I'll keep that in mind. As for the avatar, it's a placeholder. Pretty much picked it at random. lol I'm going to get a proper one eventually.
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    Senior Member The Din's Avatar
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    Racial slurs are a part of life, just watch an episode of family guy or the simpsons. (I myself have got in trouble on this forum for an off-color joke that someone took offense to. I'm an Alabastard, btw.) I would say that if you have two different races there's bound to be some names flung back and forth.

    I'd be careful using them solely to vilify the bad guys though, some neo-nazis might pick up the book and get really confused... Also, if you're going to use words like c**t and motherf**ker then let the hate fly. If you're biggest profanity is calling someone a poo-head, I'd steer clear of them all together.

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    Moderator Legendary Sidekick's Avatar
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    One of my favorite slurs for white people is one I heard a lot in Hong Kong: "gwai lo." It basically means "ghost-man," or "ghost-person." My wife, who is Chinese, explained that it comes from an old belief that only the Chinese are real people and everyone else is a ghost.

    I never took offense to the term "gwai lo," which most of my wife's friends used affectionately when they talked about their other "Western" friends.


    (This doesn't top the time I was setting up a date and told the girl I'm half Italian. Her immediate response, "Are you in the mafia?" I wish I could say I was smart enough not to go on the date. Ahh... my pathetic, desperately-single twenties!)

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    Senior Member Caged Maiden's Avatar
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    Could you select another way for the different people to fight or put each other down? I'm sort of touchy about racial slurs because I find them cheap in addition to distasteful.

    I personally would encourage you to focus more on the philosophy of the various groups, and derive your insults from that group rather than race. The thing about race is that we have a lot of people on earth, and whatever the exact shade of their skin, many of them identify with what it feels like to be discriminated against. The thing is, we don't have your unique cultures and religions and philosophies here, so no one is probably gong to identify with those or feel attacked. I think the more sheepf***er and your momma jokes you can get in to insult people, the better, because insults based strictly on skin color will offend a lot of people.

    By the way, I like the idea of Duskwitches, but I misread it the first time as Dustwitches, and sort of thought you might like that. It sounds insulting and goes along with the Mavarian desert setting. I'd be pretty damn insulted if someone summed up my whole rich magical tradition into the term Dustwitch.

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  9. #7
    Senior Member Mindfire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Din View Post
    Racial slurs are a part of life, just watch an episode of family guy or the simpsons. (I myself have got in trouble on this forum for an off-color joke that someone took offense to. I'm an Alabastard, btw.) I would say that if you have two different races there's bound to be some names flung back and forth.

    I'd be careful using them solely to vilify the bad guys though, some neo-nazis might pick up the book and get really confused... Also, if you're going to use words like c**t and motherf**ker then let the hate fly. If you're biggest profanity is calling someone a poo-head, I'd steer clear of them all together.
    um... thanks? And I don't really do hardcore profanity. Mostly because I find it distasteful and partly because they seem anachronistic and uncreative. In an alternate universe where everything is different, why should they use our swear words, anyway?
    Last edited by Mindfire; 4-9-12 at 9:48 PM.
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  10. #8
    Senior Member Mindfire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anihow View Post
    By the way, I like the idea of Duskwitches, but I misread it the first time as Dustwitches, and sort of thought you might like that. It sounds insulting and goes along with the Mavarian desert setting. I'd be pretty damn insulted if someone summed up my whole rich magical tradition into the term Dustwitch.
    I like this.
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    Senior Member Shockley's Avatar
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    It's hard, I think, to pull off racial insults for fictional groups of people. One of the reasons they have weight in the real world is that they often signify years and years of oppression, and are given meaning by us since so many of us actually know people in those specific racial groups.

    If you say that about a group that doesn't have that kind of history or real significance to me, well, meh. I don't buy into it the way I would someone using an actual racial slur.

  12. #10
    Senior Member The Din's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindfire View Post
    um... thanks? And I don't really do hardcore profanity. Mostly because I find it distasteful and partly because they seem anachronistic and uncreative. In an alternate universe where everything is different, why should they use our swear words, anyway?
    In an alternate universe where everything is different, why should they use the english language? It's all relative mate. These words have been around just as long as half the other words authors use in every-day writing. I personally dislike it when authors invent those insipid taunts, or simply have their characters pout at each other.

    Not saying you have to use anything you're not comfortable with, but to label these good old cusses uncreative only to then go call someone a barbarian or an infidel strikes me as ironic. Just my opinion though, I don't mean to get your hackles up.

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