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Possible Template Ideas &/or Suggestions for Editing Critiques

Rivyenphx

Acolyte
I have recently completed my second draft of my novel and I am at the point where I am wanting friends/family to review it and give me their opinion. But I also want more than "I enjoyed it." I am wanting to create a simple critique form -- something like "Who was your favorite character? What was your favorite scene with them?".

I am asking for some ideas or even suggestions that people have used for their own reviews. I don't have an editing buddy or group so I might seek out resources for that next, but for now I am just working on my query letter set up and getting some feedback on the work.

Thanks for any possible help you guys can give. Huge thanks to the Mythic Scribes site for already saving me from being scammed by Page Publishing. Came close to getting into that until I read the forum here. It's a sad world sometimes and so hard to know who to trust!

Anyway, getting off target. If you have any ideas or suggestions, I am truly grateful.
 

T.Allen.Smith

Staff
Moderator
My suggestion is to avoid using friends & family for critiques. They have an interest in making you happy and that may interfere with your need for absolute honesty.

My advice is to find critique partners (your fellow writers are a great resource in that regard) through the Writing Groups forum. It may take awhile to find them, but having another writer trade work is one of the best ways to hone your craft. Honest partners are a treasure, because of the service they provide to you, but you can also learn a great deal from critiquing their work.

There are always people of differing skill levels looking for this very same thing. If you do decide to search for critique partners in this fashion, be very specific about what you're looking for in critique & understand these are partnerships are relationships like any other. They need time to grow & mature. Take time to learn about each other and how you each approach writing, your goals, & your vision.

Another option is to search for live groups in your area. Sites like MeetUp often have these groups advertised & they can be found in most cities.

I've been part of a few groups, online and live. The few people on Mythic Scribes that I do exchange work with, I count as my top "go to" people. They're often the first to see my drafts.
 
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skip.knox

toujours gai, archie
Moderator
T.Allen.Smith is correct.

That said, your instincts are right about wanting a template or questionnaire. There are lots, and in the end you are going to want to develop not only your own, but one tailored to each work you write.

But start with the Net. I just did a search on "template for beta readers" and got enough hits to get started. Try variations, including questionnaire instead of template, critique instead of beta reader. Coming up with others is left as an exercise for the student.
 
Hi,

Actually I don't have any issue with using family as essentially beta readers. Yes they have a vested emotional interest in being nice to you and saying nice things. Just remember that when you get any feedback from them. But good / bad is not what you really want from them. It's too vague. I'd give them a typed copy of the work and a pen and ask them as they read through it to make comments. Any comments from I don't believe this, or I don't understand that, to typo.

Cheers, Greg.
 
Keeping to the OP, I think a template could be a great idea, as a way to force readers to give some thought to certain things.

For instance, you could pick a subject like pacing and ask them to choose between making certain sections Longer, A Bit Longer, A Bit Shorter, or Shorter (but no option for "same") plus a space for any notes. It's an easy way to get quick specific opinions, and you can then look for things like most people leaning one way or someone who always wants more length making his first request for a cut.

Of course, the trouble with templates is that too many readers think they're mechanical and non-fun. Depending on your relationship with your readers, you might do better with just getting good, thoughtful readers, plus asking a handful of specific questions.

Edit: plus, templates probably work better with shorter submissions. When someone's read a whole novel, they're less willing to bend their thoughts into a format that isn't their own-- and the difference between a good reader and a so-so one is going to make more difference anyway.
 
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Mythopoet

Auror
My suggestion is to avoid using friends & family for critiques. They have an interest in making you happy and that may interfere with your need for absolute honesty.

I see this advice everywhere and I have a hard time comprehending it. Realistically, this seems like the sort of thing that is highly dependent on the actual people in question.

My family and friends know that nothing except absolute honesty would make me happy. My husband knows that if I have even the slightest suspicion that he is humoring me, I will get very angry with him. He doesn't risk it. (You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.) I have always demanded absolute honesty from those giving me feedback in every endeavor. I don't really care if you rip me apart, as long as that is what you honestly think. And I will honestly consider the feedback.

Can I really be the only one in the world like that? Is it really so impossible for everyone else to be able to set aside their relationship for the purpose of being professional about giving and receiving useful feedback? I find that very hard to believe.

So the above may be decent enough advice in general, but I can't believe that it really applies to everyone.
 

T.Allen.Smith

Staff
Moderator
Can I really be the only one in the world like that? Is it really so impossible for everyone else to be able to set aside their relationship for the purpose of being professional about giving and receiving useful feedback? I find that very hard to believe.

So the above may be decent enough advice in general, but I can't believe that it really applies to everyone.
Of course it doesn't apply to everyone. But, in my experience, it does apply to most.

My wife and I are much like you MythoPoet. We are direct and honest. I've been told many times, when giving critique, that I can be too honest & overly blunt. I prefer feedback delivered with straightforward honesty, good & bad. I feel I learn more as an author from honest critique than anything delivered with a sugar coating.

Most people though, would not agree. I think that's especially true of friends & family where they care about your mood & immediate happiness. Compound that with the fact that most of us do not have writers in our family, and therefore they may not fully understand our desire for honest critique, and it leads us to the generalized (and mostly accurate) advice to avoid family and friends for feedback.

F. Scott Fitzgerald's daughter asked him, through letters, to critique her writings. His replies were bluntly honest, almost to the point of discouraging her from further writing. That's a writer though, one who knew the value of a thick skin and what it'd take to make it in the literary world. The majority of us don't have that resource.

My wife is the only relative I have that I could rely on for outright honesty. Maybe another friend or two, but even there I think they'd be somewhat concerned about impacting my feelings. One may be able to temper their concerns by establishing, upfront, how important absolute honesty is to a writer. I'd rather avoid that pitfall of human relationships and work with other writers who already understand. They're my friends too, but it's a different dynamic.
 

Waz

Scribe
I am asking for some ideas or even suggestions that people have used for their own reviews. I don't have an editing buddy or group so I might seek out resources for that next, but for now I am just working on my query letter set up and getting some feedback on the work.

One side note, you may want to get some crit group/reader feedback before worrying about queries and submissions. This is for two reasons. One, you may make a major (but positive) change to the story based on the feedback, and then your query will no longer be valid. Second, the critique will probably correct a lot of things, and an unpolished submission may close some doors that would have otherwise worked out.
 

Morgyn

Acolyte
T.A., every time I look at the Writer's Group Forum, I get the feeling of sinking for the third time.

Any guidance about sticking a toe in the water? That drowning feeling is so monster, <VBG>
 

T.Allen.Smith

Staff
Moderator
Two ways of approaching this....
1) Make a post in Writing Groups stating what you're looking for, & be patient. It may take awhile.

2) Start in the Showcase Forum. Giving & receiving feedback is a great way to start finding partners while improving your skills.

Don't feel overwhelmed. It just takes time.
 

Caged Maiden

Staff
Article Team
here's my template:

Title:

Author:

Reviewed by:

Date:




SUMMARY:

Summarize what you read.


SETTING:

What is your opinion about the setting?


CHARACTERS:

What did you think of the characters?

Do they have a clear motivation and are they engaging?

Who was your favorite character and why?

Who was your least favorite character and why?


STYLE:

How was the style and readability?

Do you think the style lends itself to the content?

Do you have any complaints about language, style, or readability?


PLOT:

What was the plot?

What needs to be improved or what plot holes do you see?



CONTENT:

What were some of the things that elicited a reaction?

How did the material make you feel when you read?

Were there parts that might be called a missed opportunity?



STRENGTHS:

What are the advantages, strengths, and interesting concepts in the manuscript?


WEAKNESSES:

What were the weaknesses with plot/ characters?

What are the weaknesses or concerns with content and style?

Are they minor or do you think it needs a heavy edit?


SUCCESS:

Was the title successful?

Would you buy this after reading the story/chapters?

Do you want to read more?

Is it something you'd normally read?


ADDITIONAL REMARKS:

Any other thoughts on this manuscript?


I will however tell you that I had high hopes when I first distributed these three years ago and since have realized that free form critiquing is superior in every way. By that I mean that when you let a reader blab on about their thoughts, they reveal much deeper issues than simple surface ones, which is what a form like this offers. It will not give you a deep critique, and therefore, I abandoned it for a free form sort of process.

I'm going to link an article I wrote for this forum, because it might give you more insight into the critique process. I'm only advising diving right in, to the real guts of the critique process, because when I dabbled with little things, I learned almost nothing, moving sentences around and building on weak material until it satisfied the spirit of the negative comments I received. BUt then I had some pretty tough people sink their teeth into my work and the real learning began. It took me almost three years from there to get to where I am now, but it was a good road, one I am glad I traveled.

Here's the link: Critiques: A How-To Guide
 
I don't run a bakery, if you want sugar drink my tea. I'm blunt to the point of being offensive. I know this and yet I don't care. Take it or leave it, it won't bother me either way. :) Those who know me know I'm not being unkind, just honest. Those who don't... well, I guess that is the test, if they suck it up and don't cry about it they are worth my time.

I have a friend I trade work with, I mean raw ugly, holy cow, can you even read type of works, and she is always (I hope) honest with me and I love her for it. I'd not trade her advice for all the gold in the world.
I now consider her a dear friend, one of a handful I'd jump in front of a bullet for. Writing partners as others have said are a relationship, it needs the right things in the right amounts. Find a few where you have built up a good relationship with it will work better for you than any robo form ever could.
All the best.
~BL~
 
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Svrtnsse

Staff
Article Team
When doing crits I tend to go with something along the lines of:

1. Most favourite thing.
2. Least favourite thing.
3. Character I like most.
4. Character I like least.
5. Something that surprised me.
6. Something I didn't understand.
7. What am I hoping to read more about.
8. What did I read too much about.
9. Something that seems inevitable/obvious.
10. Something I have no clue how it'll work out.

Add on more questions/categories as you see fit.

One of the points here is that the things come in pairs of good/bad or best/worst etc. Generally this is mentioned as a way of providing feedback to make it easier for the recipient to take the negative feedback by mixing it up with good. However, it works the other way around too. It'll make it easier for friends/family to give you hones negative feedback if they first give you some praise for the parts they like.

When I use this kind of technique I usually first read the text in question and then write down my comments based on memory, without checking back on what I'd just read. That way I'm still going on my first impression rather than on a more analytical read-through.
This works best with shorter pieces of text, like a few chapters - otherwise I forget too much of what I've read.

Feel free to use the questions/categories above if you wish, but keep in mind that it's the principle that's the main thing and not the exact lines; different categories paired in good/bad couples.
 
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