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The Fog Index

I came across this index when reading Joe Sugarman's 'Advertising secrets of the written word'.

This index takes the length of sentences and words into account and creates an index from them. 8 or lower means universal readability, 12 means high school level (18 yrs old). Any higher than 12 and we're getting into graduate level, scientific writing etc. And if you've ever read a bunch of scientific articles, you will know how exhausting those are. I can read dozens upon dozens of pages of proze, but scientific writing slows me right down.

I hadn't considered anything like this, writing was either understandable or cumbersome.

I don't think something like should be used as a guide to start tinkering with your prose, but it can be a clear indicator that your prose might scare off readers. About 12 is what a fiction should aim at in my opinion.

Gunning fog index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Gunning Fog Index

PS: the index for the text above the links is 10.09, now ask yourself: is it bullshit?
 

Legendary Sidekick

The HAM'ster
Moderator
Yeah, I'd say it's BS because the calculation is based entirely on ratios.

I wrote a story for the Divine Rock Bands challenge, which is in script format. It has 183 punctuation marks, 989 words, and 134 words with 3+ syllables such as "Athena" and "forehead." The grade level is 7.581.

Given the option to edit a number and recalculate, I added an extra 9 to the word count. Not nine more words. I changed it to 9899 words and left the other numbers alone. Now that I'm averaging over 50 words a sentence, you need a PhD or better to understand my 22.18-grade level writing.

And of course, it calculates syllables based on the number of vowels, so "Aaaaaaaa" is a 3+ syllable word. 8 syllables, to be precise. "Syllable" has 2 syllables because screw you, Letter Y.
 
I didn't ask if the formula could be broken, of course it can. We're talking about measuring something as complicated as the difficulty level of a written text.
 

Legendary Sidekick

The HAM'ster
Moderator
I realize you didn't ask, but still... it's just a math thing, which is why I say "BS."

G = w/p * (s+1) * 0.4

(G = grade level; w = # of words; p = # of punctuation marks; s = # of multi-syllable words)

A ten-word sentence is grade 4. Add a 3+ syllable word, now it's grade 8. With TWO 3+ syllable words, you have grade 12!

Grade 16: "The quick, brown fox jumped over the beautiful, beautiful butterflies!"
w = 10; p = 1; s = 3; 10/1 * (3+1) = 40 * 0.4 = 16 = G


I agree with the premise that 8th grade level reading is universal (newspapers are supposedly grade 4), but I don't agree that the above ratios give you any clear idea of where your writing stands regarding readers' ability to understand it. Yeah, if your sentences are too long, your story is hard to understand, but the same applies if your sentences are too short or not broken by commas (which are ignored by this calculator. It only looks for end marks).

This tool is more useful than the "Who Do I Write Like?" calculator, but only if you want to know how many words per sentence you average. That's the only accurate information it's giving you, and even that information is purely trivial. Beta readers are your key to finding out what unwritten information confused them in addition to what poor word choices broke immersion, what great lines entertained them, what characters made them care, etc.
 
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True, there's much to writing. What makes it valuable to me is that it's a new way to look at the quality of writing, I'd never seen anything like it before. And while I don't think I'll use it, I will remember what it is trying to measure.
 
Aaaarghh!! (in one syllable). I will never be able to dumb myself down far enough for American publishers. From a random lump of text I got 15.4. When I actually wrote a paying piece for Baen ( a technical bit for the Grantville Gazette {Flint's 163whatever universe}) they came back to me twice saying it was too difficult, that your average SF reader was a fourteen-year old boy (boys being known to be less literate than girls) and that both my vocabulary and sentence structure would lead to incomprehension and retreat to comic books.

I promise I tried (real paying copy? You bet I tried), but was unable to reach their aimed-for simplicity level, despite attempting all suggestions. The final version was very much a compromise. But the worst thing is that I can tell stories to five-year olds without compromising my principles. They work out words by context, and don't lose the thread when a sentence meanders over more than one page. I hold that if teenagers are now incapable of reading the books I was enjoying half a century ago because they're too difficult, the book publishers hold part of the responsibility.
 
I can see how SF would hate this kind if approach more than anything else. I haven't read much SF, but as far as I know readers expect a level that's a little higher. So I don't really get those publishers' point.
 

Trick

Auror
if teenagers are now incapable of reading the books I was enjoying half a century ago because they're too difficult, the book publishers hold part of the responsibility.

^THIS^ My sons will read the Hobbit before they are teenagers, or something equal should they not prefer fantasy (fingers crossed that they do). Much like writing, the way to become a better reader is to keep reading and challenging yourself. The Marketing, it's all about money, give the kids candy because it's easier than vegetables, don't challenge them because they might read someone else's stuff - is a bunch of BS. Don't lower the quality of the written work available to make more money, it's indecent.

I know someone with a mild learning disability, he literally is unable to spell most words with more than two syllables. But when he was learning to read, his teacher (a very wonderful woman, god rest her soul) challenged him constantly. They could have stuck with Dr. Seuss and made both their lives 'easier' but they didn't. He reads 1000 page books now! His reading comprehension is well above high school and his social abilities have improved.

If publishers won't challenge the kids of this world, it's up to parents and teachers! Die crappy books!
 

Penpilot

Staff
Article Team
I use an editing program called Style Writer. It uses this metric as part of its analysis of text. It's a useful tool, but it's not the be all and end all. The way I use it is if it flags something, then I take a second and third look at it. Sometimes I conclude the sentence could be written better. Other times, I think the way it's written is fine.

The final judgement should always be in human hands.

It's like anything in writing. There are always guidelines/rules that will put text on one side or another of a what the guidelines/rules will say is "right" or "wrong". To follow things blindly is a terrible mistake. There will always be exceptions.

This is where the skill of the writer comes in. This is a tool for them to use, and when they use it they make conscious choices of whether to break a guideline/rule or not. Like all tools, if it's used wrong, you can destroy something. If it's used right it can build wonders.
 
For fun, I tried a piece I wrote from the POV of a 7-year-old. It's at a 5th-grade reading level. Maybe I used too many big words. (Then again, what accent pronounces "someone" with three syllables? It's sum-wun.)
 
I think Penpilot's view is the best one: don't knock the tool but find out how you personally can get use out of it.
 

skip.knox

toujours gai, archie
Moderator
I also call bs. First, I don't believe there's such a thing as a reading level, and certainly not one tied to grade level, since grade levels are themselves arbitrary and nearly unconnected to ability. They are but gates in the maze of mass education. But let us not rant.

Second, I'm a history prof. I long ago put all my lectures online. Not video (barf), but the actual text, written as essays. I wrote them for college students with no real attempt to soft-pedal the writing. From fairly early on, in the mid-1990s, I would get the occasional email from a public school teacher, or from a public school student, thanking me for making the material available. More to the point at hand, they regularly complimented me because the essays were easy to read.

As others have pointed out, "easiness" is not something that can be calculated. It varies by reader. The reason why "reading level" and such nonsense exists is to reassure administrators and policy makers, who fear to make decisions according to judgment and prefer to hide behind numbers. Oops, ranting again.

The OP was just trying to say here's something interesting. I suspect measures of writing is something of a raw nerve with many writers, and OP can be forgiven for being taken aback by some of the responses. My own response is this: there are many, many guidelines we can use to gain new perspectives on our own prose. So many of them are better than these mathematical pretenses, one would spend several lifetimes working through them before one got down to so-called measures of reading difficulty. Take this one off your list.
 

Legendary Sidekick

The HAM'ster
Moderator
@slip.knox,

I'm also a teacher. I've been to many teacher's meeting in which a teacher would ask, "Who determines reading level?" I think it makes sense for book stores to have a recommended age range. Even then, my six-year-old and her ten-year-old friend both love the Whatever After series. I'm not sure if the recommended age is 6-8 or 9-12. A senior at my school told me she fondly remembers Number the Stars, which I read with her when she was in 6th grade. I was in my 30s at the time, and loved it. Like movies, some stories in print should be considered "for all ages."

Also, if you're a college professor creating easy-to-read materials, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say your students are in good hands because you're succeeding as a writer clearly conveying a message.
 
Hi,

I did a calc on the first page of my latest book The Godlost Land and got an 8.552, which I thought sounded good. A check on the first page of Maverick pubbed four years ago came in at 11.00. I've worked hard to make my books as readible as possible, and am apparently doing a better job.

Small sample I know, but these tools have their place.

Cheers Greg.
 

Guy

Inkling
I hold that if teenagers are now incapable of reading the books I was enjoying half a century ago because they're too difficult, the book publishers hold part of the responsibility.
The other possibility being that publishers don't know what the hell they're talking about.

Sorry, but I'm an educated man raised by educated people who placed a great deal of value on education. They were very well-read, articulate people. Being raised in such an environment resulted in an ability to create some fairly complex sentences and occasionally use some fairly big words. Gods forbid a reader might learn a new word or two every now and again, or that a writer isn't so contemptuous of readers that the writer doesn't talk down to them and assumes they're capable of actually understanding things.
 
I think most of the time actual word choice is not an issue. Why use overly difficult words when you can use everyday language? Reading a word you don't know pulls you out of your reading and breaks up the flow, it would be a disservice to your reader. Does that mean that you need to dumb down your text? Of course not, I've never done anything like that before. I just write as I hear it in my head and I notice that most of the time word choice isn't really a problem.
 

Philster401

Maester
I know in some books they put definitions at the bottom of the page that helps if there is a word someone doesn't know.
 
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