Sympathy for the devil?

[ChasingSuns]

So in my current project, I've run into a problem. As is, my main villain is fulfilling a bit too much of the "dark lord" archetype. while this is a very useful archetype, I find it to be a bit too overdone. I like to approach my villains with the concept of the villain not believing that he/she is the villain. So I am now looking for advice on how to achieve this with this particular character. In order to give you an idea of what I am working with, I'll give a bit of background on the region and the character.

This character is the lord of a kingdom that has been corrupted by dark magic. Many years ago, his kingdom was invaded by one of the other large kingdoms on the continent. His people were losing the fight, so he ended up turning to a group of dark wizards for help. They helped him amass a powerful army, and they pushed the invaders back. Afterwards though, the wizards convinced him to invade the kingdom that had originally invaded him land. This led the original invaders to create an alliance with the other kingdoms, and together they pushed back the dark armies. Now each kingdom is tasked with guarding a portion of the border. The lord of the dark kingdom was killed in battle, and his armies were crushed.

Fast forward to present day in the story: The council of evil wizards has endured, and plotted in secret to fulfill their goals of domination. They resurrect the lord, although they bring him back as an undead abomination. Now they are rebuilding their forces with the intent to attack the other kingdoms and get revenge.

So, my question is, is there any way to create sympathy for this lord? I was thinking that perhaps I could spin it like he believes that he is doing what needs to be done, but is just so manipulated by the dark wizards that he has lost sight of what is right and what is wrong. This would be amplified by the fact that he is now essentially a glorified undead thrall of theirs. I figured that at the very least, it would be interesting to see a "dark lord" character that ends up not being the one pulling the strings. Any thoughts/advice?

 

[Philster401]

Before I state what I am about to to say I am going to say I now people will argue that this isn't a good example but I think it is for the character you are looking for the is a character like Galbatorix from the Inheritance cycle. He was evil and crazy (at least in the beginning) but he thought he was doing the right thing.

 

[Tom]

No, it's less Galbatorix (whom I still maintain was the only sane person in Alagaesia) and more Darth Vader. Vader was deceived by the Emperor and led to believe the Jedi were evil and he was doing the galaxy a favor by wiping them out.

I think there's a world of sympathy you can create for a villain of this type. He's brainwashed and deprived of his free will, unable to see that he's being manipulated.

 

[Philster401]

Thats what I have for sub-antagonist character he lIterally had his soul taken/stolen/banished/separated from his body and mind so he goes out and does what his commander comands him to without any regret for what he has done.

 

[Jabrosky]

So in my current project, I've run into a problem. As is, my main villain is fulfilling a bit too much of the "dark lord" archetype. while this is a very useful archetype, I find it to be a bit too overdone. I like to approach my villains with the concept of the villain not believing that he/she is the villain.

This isn't necessarily incompatible with the villain still coming across as unsympathetic for the audience. It may require that the villain follow a certain ethical code, but it doesn't follow that we endorse that code. I'd even go so far as to say the scariest and most vicious villains can be the ones who are convinced they're the good guys.

Possibly my favorite villain from any fictional work is the Disney interpretation of Claude Frollo from The Hunchback of Notre Dame. He never comes across as a subject of sympathy, or anything other than cruel and deceitful. And yet his villainous qualities have grown from nothing else than his sense of morality, which in turn reflects the culture that brought him up. His authoritarian, intolerant interpretation of Catholic Christianity is what drives his genocidal crusade against the Roma in Paris, including Quasimodo's own mother. And once Frollo feels what should have been a harmless physical attraction towards Esmeralda, it's that same sense of morality which twists it into this hatefully reductive objectification. Literally, the only way he can reconcile his interest in Esmeralda with his twisted worldview is by reducing her to a sex object whom he will destroy if he can't have his way with her. We've all heard the cliche of base temptations coming into conflict with our higher conscience, but in Frollo's case, it's his conscience more than anything else that makes him so evil.

So maybe you could give your villain an understanding of right and wrong that is somehow messed up like Frollo's?

 

[Tom]

Another "villain who believes he is not the villain" who comes to mind is Javert from Les Mis. Jevert's obsession with justice, misguided following of the letter of the law rather than its spirit, and inability to believe a human being can change drive him to mercilessly hunt down Valjean for decades, and eventually drive him mad. We're supposed to have sympathy for him--he's making an all too human mistake, and pays a high price for it.

 

[Caged Maiden]

If you don't want to go that route, give him a reason. Maybe the evil wizards will allow his soul to rest if he does this thing they demand of him. I'm writing a story in which a pair of brothers are questing to open a portal sealing away a world of demons. The portal protects their world, yet they are going to break it open. Why? Their father and seven other priests' souls are what keep the gate sealed and years after the incident happened (and he and his brother grew up fatherless) they learned that the priests were tricked into giving their mortal souls and that they cannot rest in peace. He's not doing it to crush the world, but to avenge the pain the souls experience by not returning to the spirit world.

 

[WooHooMan]

Why does he need to be sympathetic? Like what's the narrative purpose for him being sympathetic?

Really, if he's just following orders, I wouldn't really be terribly concerned with his moral perspective. At this point, I'd be more interested in the evil wizards' morality or lack thereof. Basically, what Tom Nimenai said earlier.

 

[Penpilot]

Sympathy is simply understanding, so if you want to create sympathy, make the reader understand this dark lord's point of view and understand why they do what they do. If you want to create even deeper sympathy create a situation where if the reader were in the dark lord's place, they might make the same choices as the dark lord.

But since he's just a thrall taking orders, the dark lord doesn't really have choices to make, does he? One way you could address this is have him be 100% aware of all the evil he's doing, but unable to do resist it. If you have him struggling to resist the commands of the evil wizards, but unable to overcome them, you'll create sympathy. You'll have the readers cheering for him to overcome the influence of evil wizards, and it won't matter if he succeeds or not.

 

[ScipioSmith]

Beyond the evil wizards, who is living in this country now, that the allied kingdoms are defending the frontier against.

Because if there are still inhabitants, then it seems to me the obvious route is to play on the Dark Lord's sympathy for his people, his lordly ideals of service to his people that led him to sell his soul to ruinous powers in the first place and now compel him to return from death to claim for them a place in the sun. Especially since they were not the original aggressors in the war.

 

[Panda]

If you don't want to go that route, give him a reason. Maybe the evil wizards will allow his soul to rest if he does this thing they demand of him. I'm writing a story in which a pair of brothers are questing to open a portal sealing away a world of demons. The portal protects their world, yet they are going to break it open. Why? Their father and seven other priests' souls are what keep the gate sealed and years after the incident happened (and he and his brother grew up fatherless) they learned that the priests were tricked into giving their mortal souls and that they cannot rest in peace. He's not doing it to crush the world, but to avenge the pain the souls experience by not returning to the spirit world.

My first thought when I read ChasingSuns' post was similar but even more dark: The lord was in hell before he was resurrected, and he knows that if he doesn't obey the wizards he'll be sent back there. Of course, he knows that the wizards will send him back anyway once they're done with him--there's no promise of letting his soul rest--but he knows that the longer he obeys them, the longer he can postpone the inevitable. He's basically just buying time.

I think that creates an uncomfortable sympathy for him, because the reader knows that what he's doing is wrong but, unless the reader's really delusional about their level of self-control, they have to admit that they'd do the same thing if they were him.

Also, I really want to read Caged Maiden's story.

 

[X Equestris]

Beyond the evil wizards, who is living in this country now, that the allied kingdoms are defending the frontier against.

Because if there are still inhabitants, then it seems to me the obvious route is to play on the Dark Lord's sympathy for his people, his lordly ideals of service to his people that led him to sell his soul to ruinous powers in the first place and now compel him to return from death to claim for them a place in the sun. Especially since they were not the original aggressors in the war.

This was my line of thinking as well. You could combine it with other things, and you might end up with an interesting twist on the whole dark overlord trope.

 

[Caged Maiden]

@ Panda

I'm actually looking for a critique for it, to help me finish out the plot. I want to know whether my character is sympathetic and how to pace revealing the information about the gateway. I can't imagine a man drumming up a lot of help if he says, "Hey, help me break open that gate and release demons back into our world." So if you want to read it, PM me and I'll email it to you.

 

[ChasingSuns]

Beyond the evil wizards, who is living in this country now, that the allied kingdoms are defending the frontier against.

Because if there are still inhabitants, then it seems to me the obvious route is to play on the Dark Lord's sympathy for his people, his lordly ideals of service to his people that led him to sell his soul to ruinous powers in the first place and now compel him to return from death to claim for them a place in the sun. Especially since they were not the original aggressors in the war.

I really like this idea. The kingdom wasn't originally a dark land. The people were just as anyone was in each kingdom, albeit more peaceful and not quite as advanced. Since then a large portion of the nation has become very warlike and barbaric. The rest of the kingdom is basically stuck trying to survive in this cursed land, and is struggling to survive. This would definitely provide the "dark lord" with enough to work with to get the people motivated to fight (I now am reminded of Saruman rallying the barbarians against Rohan).

Also, to others, I definitely like the idea of him feeling forced to serve the wizards, even though he may not want to. I think I might even make him out to be the villain for a good chunk of the story, but then start doing chapters from his POV later on. That way, the reader is under the impression that he is this evil lord, but then discovers the true nature of his situation later, which may help gather sympathy for the character. Thanks everyone! So many good ideas being thrown around

 

[RonCNieto]

What ScipioSmith said.

Honestly, the moment I read your summary I thought, "Dracula Untold". I think that's the route you want to follow if you want to create a villain away from stereotypes--make him a hero for his people, a monster because it was the only way. Make him return and see the devastation brought by the coalition's revenge, and attempt to stom it out once and for all so that his people can be free.

I'd go beyond "the villain never believes he's the villain." I'd gun for "the villain is the hero of his side", (adding "history is written by the victor, and it will appoint its heroes as suitable" for some really, really twisted storytelling).

Also, I'd take the focus from the wizards. They do sound quite evil-overlord-stereotypical, and unless *they* are the ones with very good reasons (beyond following a crazy cult), I think the lord works better as a villain, with the wizards as the tools (okay, counselors... what's the difference?) that enabled him to become the dread lord he thought he had to be.

 

[ChasingSuns]

What ScipioSmith said.

Honestly, the moment I read your summary I thought, "Dracula Untold". I think that's the route you want to follow if you want to create a villain away from stereotypes--make him a hero for his people, a monster because it was the only way. Make him return and see the devastation brought by the coalition's revenge, and attempt to stom it out once and for all so that his people can be free.

I'd go beyond "the villain never believes he's the villain." I'd gun for "the villain is the hero of his side", (adding "history is written by the victor, and it will appoint its heroes as suitable" for some really, really twisted storytelling).

Also, I'd take the focus from the wizards. They do sound quite evil-overlord-stereotypical, and unless *they* are the ones with very good reasons (beyond following a crazy cult), I think the lord works better as a villain, with the wizards as the tools (okay, counselors... what's the difference?) that enabled him to become the dread lord he thought he had to be.

I definitely love this idea. I do want to keep some focus on the wizard council because their whole concept flows with certain themes that I have throughout the story (the concept of the meaning of life and death is the biggest theme). Although a lot of the wizards themselves are tragic figures, because they have been corrupted by magic that they were merely curious about. Or at least, a lot of them are. Their corruption is part of the magic system of the world though, so I want them to represent what happens when one explores too much of the darker side of it (this will become a struggle for one of the central characters). But I do like the idea of bringing less focus to them outside of that concept. I definitely want to explore the relationship between them and the lord of the kingdom. I am debating on how I want the story to end for him, but it very well could end up with him trying to stomp them out towards the end. It'll just depend on which direction his arc takes him.