Jarringly modern dialogue?

[Gryphos]

If you were reading a story set in a world with a historical aesthetic, say, 19th century-esque, would it be jarring for you to read modern-sounding dialogue. For example, with regards to a character dressed in a three piece suit and top hat...

“You know, Mr. Stove…” The Makarlan rocked his head from side to side in thought. “Hmm, I was going to say we didn’t have to kill you, but to be honest, f*ck that shit. You’re both dead.”

And other similar patterns of speaking. Using some modern pieces of slang and interjecting things like "you know what, f*ck you" into the middle of sentences.

I know that some people read fantasy for escapism, and perhaps more antiquated dialogue adds to that, but I would say that there's something to be said for more 'real' dialogue, which the reader can easily relate to in some way.

What do you guys think?

 

[BWFoster78]

Gryphos,

I use modern slang in my epic fantasy. Of all the decisions I've made, more people have complained about that one than any other. Yet I have not changed my mind.

I would not use anachronisms. For example, if rockets do not exist in your world, I wouldn't write, "Xan rocketed upward."

With that caveat, the main complaint seems to be that it pulls the reader out of the setting.

Maybe it does for some readers, particularly those who are hard core epic fantasy fans.

The advantages for me are:

1. I think it makes the writing more accessible to the average reader.
2. It makes it a lot easier for me to create my character voice.

All in all, I'm happy with my decision.

 

[Svrtnsse]

I think this is the kind of thing that will seem jarring at first, but which you'll soon get used to.

Out of context, the quoted line seems like it'd be from a movie taking place sometime in the last few decades - or possibly any time in the future. This is regardless of how the character is dressed.
If, however, you establish that this is how characters speak in your setting, then I'd probably get used to it fairly soon.

 

[BWFoster78]

Svrtnsse,

Great point! I've noticed that I tend to acclimate pretty quickly to a lot of similar kinds of things when reading.

Truthfully, I think you have two groups on this one:

1. Hard core epic fantasy readers who will not like it at all.
2. People who won't notice or won't care if they do.

 

[Russ]

I don't quite fall into either of those groups.

Language is a product of environment. If the environment you give me suits the language than I am fine. I really wouldn't want to read a book in "old english" anyways. If the environment you give doesn't suit the slang than I might be jarred or annoyed.

In my experience, people in three peice suits and top hats suggests something formal to me. "F' that sh*t" doesn't strike me as formal. Now if the character was a life long hardened criminal dressed up, I get it. If not, I don't.

 

[Devor]

It depends on the context, but I lean towards slightly old fashioned or otherwise different speech patterns.

I would not describe cursing as either "jarringly modern" or "more relatable."

 

[Gryphos]

In my experience, people in three peice suits and top hats suggests something formal to me. "F' that sh*t" doesn't strike me as formal. Now if the character was a life long hardened criminal dressed up, I get it. If not, I don't.

The character in question, while not being a criminal, isn't uptight or even that gentlemanly. He'd certainly be the type to be lax with his language.

 

[Russ]

The character in question, while not being a criminal, isn't uptight or even that gentlemanly. He'd certainly be the type to be lax with his language.

Than that would work for me. As long as I think "that guy would speak like that" all is well.

 

[Svrtnsse]

I should have mentioned this before, but I think that the most important thing to consider is if as a writer is comfortable with the language your characters are using. By this, I don't mean the contents of what they're saying, but the technical aspect of writing what they're saying.
Let your characters use a language you're comfortable writing. Don't try to force it into something you're uncertain of. Don't just throw in words because they feel old-fashioned-y. Use a language you know.

 

[Incanus]

I'd find it jarring myself.

I'm pretty sure I don't understand what you mean by "something to be said for more 'real' dialogue". If it is in any way a historical setting, or a setting similar to a different time period than now, then modern parlance would automatically be less 'real', not more.
Maybe you mean 'contemporary' instead of 'real'? The dialogue styles of past eras are somehow not 'real'? Yeah, I must be missing something. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

In any event, I think that the language of a story should be understandable to current audiences while at the same time conveying the style of the era it is set in.

 

[Legendary Sidekick]

I think if you have a character with a voice you know well, you won't be thinking about how modern the character's language is. It'll be more of a "that sounds like her" vs. "she'd never say that."

And yeah, avoideth Ye Olde Common Tongue like the plague or other medieval disease. (Well, unless you're into that sort of thing. As you mayhaps hath guessethed, I'm not into it, so it sounds stupid, sarcastic or both when I attempt/fake it.)

 

[Gryphos]

I'm pretty sure I don't understand what you mean by "something to be said for more 'real' dialogue". If it is in any way a historical setting, or a setting similar to a different time period than now, then modern parlance would automatically be less 'real', not more.
Maybe you mean 'contemporary' instead of 'real'? The dialogue styles of past eras are somehow not 'real'? Yeah, I must be missing something. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Yeah, contemporary's what I meant. Badly phrased on my part.

 

[Gryphos]

And yeah, avoideth Ye Olde Common Tongue like the plague or other medieval disease. (Well, unless you're into that sort of thing. As you mayhaps hath guessethed, I'm not into it, so it sounds stupid, sarcastic or both when I attempt/fake it.)

I once tried to write a character, in this very setting, even, who used that kind of language. I thought it would be quirky and interesting, but it ended up just sounding stiff and dull and lacking impact. Maybe it's just because I'm not experienced enough in that kind of language. Slang and swearing's what I do know.

 

[Nimue]

Yeah, I think this kind of thing is fine if it fits the world and tone you're working in, but...sometimes this kind of language just comes across as lazy. Not just the words, because shit has been a word forever, but the phrasing. Why not actually sit down and consider how a 19th century gentleman would say "f*ck that shit"? There are eloquent and non-anachronistic ways to say crude and scathing things. I'll see if I can think of an alternate phrase, but I've seen it done, and the difference between suddenly reading "Go f*ck yourself" and "My good man, kindly bugger off." is the difference between a jarring "Where the hell did that come from?" and the startled delight of "Did he really just say that?"

 

[Legendary Sidekick]

Slang and swearing's more fun. A part of me wants to write more kid-friendly works, but then there's this wonderful four-letter word I've come to know and love and use regularly since the age of seven. I feel like it's not a word I must use in my stories, but if it fits, and I'm aiming for a child audience, well… then I'm f***ed.

 

[Legendary Sidekick]

Yeah, I think this kind of thing is fine if it fits the world and tone you're working in, but...sometimes this kind of language just comes across as lazy. Not just the words, because shit has been a word forever, but the phrasing. Why not actually sit down and consider how a 19th century gentleman would say "f*ck that shit"? There are eloquent and non-anachronistic ways to say crude and scathing things. I'll see if I can think of an alternate phrase, but I've seen it done, and the difference between suddenly reading "Go f*ck yourself" and "My good man, kindly bugger off." is the difference between a jarring "Where the hell did that come from?" and the startled delight of "Did he really just say that?"

I agree f--- that s--- is out of place in historical fiction or some other realistic setting, though even then you probably need to compromise between how people actually talked and what's accessible to the reader who's not a linguist.

Back in my (yes, ultra-geeky) LARPing days, I never could ask the question, "How do you fare?" I couldn't even answer it. Everyone thought I was one of the best role-players in the game, but I managed that without all that pseudo-medieval speak. Maybe that I was a barbarian helped. There was usually a combination of action and words.

 

[Gryphos]

Slang and swearing's more fun. A part of me wants to write more kid-friendly works, but then there's this wonderful four-letter word I've come to know and love and use regularly since the age of seven. I feel like it's not a word I must use in my stories, but if it fits, and I'm aiming for a child audience, well… then I'm f***ed.

I feel the same. I tried writing this story relatively cleanly, but there came times in the narrative that a well-constructed piece of swearing would work so well and ... well, it ain't PG anymore.

 

[Devor]

And yeah, avoideth Ye Olde Common Tongue like the plague or other medieval disease. (Well, unless you're into that sort of thing. As you mayhaps hath guessethed, I'm not into it, so it sounds stupid, sarcastic or both when I attempt/fake it.)

Yeah . . . . that kind of language can be much more jarring than modern language. I meant that I shoot for language that sounds . . . old? Formal? Less colloquial? None of those are quite what I mean. Let's go with Walter Cronkite English, plus a few quirks and colloquialisms that are unique to the setting.

 

[Chessie]

The stories I have been working on are set in an 18th century type world and I'm constantly battling myself over the right language to use in dialogue. I try not to use phrases that are modern although sometimes they slip in and are caught by my crit partners/readers, which I'm exceedingly grateful for.

The thing is: do any of us truly have an idea of what people talked like from 1200-1900? Maybe a notion, but our language is so different from the past hundreds of years that I believe it's unfair to put that kind of stupid pressure on authors to get it right.

 

[Nimue]

Of course we don't--an author just needs to meet the standard of our collective fiction of the era. Reader expectations need to be met, otherwise it's going to be assumed that you didn't put time/research/thought into it, even if you did, and maybe even if you're technically correct! See: "shit" being an old word.

Tough, for sure. Reading primary documents from the period is maybe the best way to develop your tone, but also reading historical or fantasy novels in a similar setting.