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About Sword and Sorcery

X Equestris

Maester
I've been looking at one particular publication that does monthly themes, and the one for the November submission period is Sword and Sorcery. Beyond that, all it says is "A classic. Let's mess with it." Since then, I've been reading up on character archetypes, themes, settings, plots, etc. that are common to the subgenre.

Which brings me to this thread. What do you consider to be the hallmarks of Sword and Sorcery? What do you think is overdone in the subgenre?
 

Heliotrope

Staff
Article Team
I have no idea :p

But, would you tell me or PM me the name of the publication? I'm trying to start off just writing short stories and I find I need the motivation of having something to write for. I guarantee I will NOT be competition for you. Ha ha.
 

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
To me, the chief hallmark of sword and sorcery is the mysterious and dangerous character of magic. It's generally not to be messed with, and often used by evil characters. In the Conan novels, for example, I don't think there are any good characters that use magic. They all seem to be evil, and the magic is ancient, and corrupting, and dangerous. It also seems like for classic sword and sorcery, the tech level is early-medieval than late (though I guess C.L. Moore's Jirel of Joiry books would be an exception).
 
I guess the things that seems the most tired for me as a lover of sword and sorcery would be the glorification of the past, be it for better or worse. Always, always, always, there was always some great and powerful thing before, be it a church or a nation, or (that which has become most frustrating) "The Ancients". All the dangers and magic are something old and being rediscovered or otherwise returning--the magic, the danger, whatever, is never something new come to the world.
 
Usually, Dungeons and Dragons pops into my mind first when I think of sword & sorcery. Then, I think of fast-paced adventure, powerful magic but very limited or no description of the mechanics behind that magic, a single proficient hero (like Conan) or an ad hoc band of heroes, limited attention to character development (characters, whether evil, good, or neutral, have one or two defining traits and rarely grow or change beyond their starting personalities.) Damsels in distress and/or extremely evil maniacs (often, as Steerpike said, magic users; or, evil priests) usually figure heavily in the plot, but the plot can also be about revenge or a heist.

Mind you, these are just the things that pop into my head when I think of that subgenre.
 
To me, the chief hallmark of sword and sorcery is the mysterious and dangerous character of magic. It's generally not to be messed with, and often used by evil characters. In the Conan novels, for example, I don't think there are any good characters that use magic. They all seem to be evil, and the magic is ancient, and corrupting, and dangerous. It also seems like for classic sword and sorcery, the tech level is early-medieval than late (though I guess C.L. Moore's Jirel of Joiry books would be an exception).

That and Conan never seems thrilled to take on magic users, giving him an aspect of vulnerability. Thankfully for him he's crafty and not a mindless brute.
 

Incanus

Auror
Probably not adding much, but what I think of is: fast-paced, larger-than-life characters, clear and colorful, not much by way of 'depth', hero almost never uses sorcery and is usually fearful of it, sorcery often used by bad-guys and has part to play in main conflict.
 
C

Chessie

Guest
All of these answers are great, so just like Incanus, I'm not sure how much my comment will add but here goes. Sword and Sorcery is just what it sounds like: stories with plenty of swords and wicked, deadly magic. Think of the Nords in Skyrim and how anti-magic they are. That's the vibe regarding magic in this genre. I hope that helps some. :)
 

Mythopoet

Auror
I think the most important characteristic of Sword and Sorcery is that it is focused in around one main hero character and the conflicts the hero encounters and overcomes. As opposed to Epic fantasy which explores conflicts with huge casts of characters that span worlds. Everything else is just set dressing and is just as likely to be found in epic fantasy as in sword and sorcery.

Also, Incanus, I just want to say I love your new signature.
 

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
I think Fritz Leiber's Fafhrd and Gray Mouser books fall squarely into Sword and Sorcery (I think the phrase was coined to describe those books; maybe by Leiber), and Paul Kemp's Egil and Nix seem to me to fit as well. I don't think a single hero can be the defining point. It still seems to me to be largely about a feel of the world, how magic sits in relation to the world, and even the relationship of the protagonists to the world (they often operate at the outskirts). Gray Mouser used magic, but I think Leiber made clear it was an unknown and dangerous quantity, and that was a source of argument between Fafhrd and Gray Mouser.
 

Incanus

Auror
Also, Incanus, I just want to say I love your new signature.

Oh cool, thanks Mytho-- Sometimes I'm a bit over-silly. Can't really help it.

I think Fritz Leiber's Fafhrd and Gray Mouser books fall squarely into Sword and Sorcery (I think the phrase was coined to describe those books; maybe by Leiber

Yes, Leiber definitely coined the term. Fafhrd and Gray Mouser is one of my favorites.
 
A grim, hulking figure disembowels the high priest of the serpent god on his own altar. A laughing rogue spends ill-gotten gains on cheap wine in filthy taverns. Hardy adventurers venture into the unexplored jungle in search of the fabled City of Golden Masks.

A sword-and-sorcery campaign emulates some of the classic works of fantasy fiction, a tradition that goes back to the roots of the game. Here you'll find a dark, gritty world of evil sorcerers and decadent cities, where the protagonists are motivated more by greed and self-interest than by altruistic virtue. Fighter, rogue, and barbarian characters tend to be far more common than wizards, clerics, or paladins. In such a pulp fantasy setting, those who wield magic often symbolize the decadence and corruption of civilization, and wizards are the classic villains of these settings. Magic items are therefore rare and often dangerous.

-Excerpt from the 5th Edition Dungeons and Dragons Dungeon Master's Guide

Just my two cents
 
@thedarknessrising:

What I like about that excerpt: It hits on many points already mentioned in this thread and those I've read elsewhere as I've looked into the topic. And, my first thoughts about sword and sorcery involved D&D.

The role/nature of magic in the world is covered; it's dark, mysterious, powerful and negative, as Steerpike has pointed out also.

(I will say however that some more basic D&D-style adventures might not include an evil mage or priest. The magic may merely be what one or a couple of the party members use; and, although powerful, dangerous and unexplained, it might not receive the same negative bias as original sword-and-sorcery stories gave it. I wonder if this is a sub-subgenre.)

Here you'll find a dark, gritty world of evil sorcerers and decadent cities, where the protagonists are motivated more by greed and self-interest than by altruistic virtue.

Yesterday, I read an editor's take on the subgenre (Lou Anders). That notion of "self-interest", and Steerpike's observation about protagonists—"they often operate at the outskirts"—were observations he made also. Plus, the scope of S&S when compared to epic fantasy:

To go into more detail, epic fantasy tends (see? tends!) to involve stories on a grand scale, where armies are involved in battles across sweeping landscapes, where stakes are global and detailed continent or country maps are de rigueur. There may or may not be a dark lord, but there are certainly multiple characters, maybe even hundreds of characters.

By contrast, sword and sorcery tales tend to confine themselves to one or two characters, concern themselves with low stakes and high action, and confine themselves to the moment. The heroes of sword and sorcery often aren't. The quintessential S&S protagonist is often someone who is morally ambiguous and self-serving.​

Finally, before you posted the citation from the D&D manual, I'd been thinking about the fact that many of the protagonists in S&S are fighters, barbarians, rogues/thieves/assassins. As others have commented, the protagonists tend to be those who favor blades and who don't much trust magic or who outright dislike magic.
 
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I think the hallmarks outside of battle epics are the classic good and evil and the sensation of being somewhere inbetween Mothergoose and the Odyssey. It's a more animated genre than the conflicts in other genres ( until you get to your battle epics).
 
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