• Welcome to the Fantasy Writing Forums. Register Now to join us!

Romance

So, I have to ask, how do y'all handle romance. Right now I am writing one that is a slow build. A date here, some hand holding there, and so on. It'll take an entire book for my MMC to even admit he is in love and wants to have a relationship with this girl. Is that too long of a withholding without enough of a lay off. I'd like to note that the MMC is dead set on not having a relationship because of a damaging, socially, mentally, and physically and blood borne disease that he doesn't want to spread. But after meeting her and almost dying decides life is too short to live without love. Does this work or is it too much held back with not enough pay off?
 

skip.knox

toujours gai, archie
Moderator
Impossible to say without reading it. Let me try turning the table on you. Oof. It's a heavy table.

Why not have it happen sooner? What is it about the plot that makes it impossible for these two to get together in Chapter 5, just to pick something really early? Or by the mid-point of the book?

Is the romance the point of the book? Is this a book about how love can heal a damaged person? Or is it about a farm boy and his destiny, with the romance a sub-plot?

If he loves this person so much, why is he willing to condemn her to his own fate? Or are they both happy with a celibate relationship? Though, even there, living together is going to entail risk, since even a bloody nose could be deadly, right?

Is the payoff at the end a kiss? Intercourse (in which case, see above)? A big wedding?

As things stand, there is as yet "insufficient data for meaningful answer."
 
Skip mentioned and asked the things I would.

I can add a personal note. I am almost always irritated by an unnecessary romance plugged into most types of story. What is or is not "necessary" will depend, of course, on the type of story and the purpose the romance serves.

I almost feel that yours might be a case of this: she & the romance are a character-building foil for your MC. The romance, its development or lack thereof for the majority of the book, how it turns out—these things don't affect the plot significantly? By affecting the plot I mean even tangentially by affecting what the MC does or does not do at any given point in the story.

But as Skip said, "insufficient data for meaningful answer."
 
Romance is not the point of the book. The book isn't about the healing power of love. Primarily it's a young man dealing with being part of a hyper-marginalized group and dealing with how to improve his station in life, along with helping people like him. He wants to stay friends with her but not live with her or get emotionally involved beyond a deep and abiding friendship. The pay off at the end physically is a kiss, but the more important emotional pay off is him and her getting into a steady relationship.

As for getting together sooner the book takes place over year's worth of school, about 9 months. He meets her on orientation day. Their relationship starts off as friends with a mutual attraction to each other that grows into a budding romance. So the primary issue is time. They interact frequently but have to build the relation from square one.

As for affecting the plot, it gives him a second choice. Up until that point, he thought he had only one choice to make his life better, join a terrorist group. Without her and the choice that she presents he would get up to his tits in terrorism. She is integral to the plot
 
"Too much held back, not enough payoff" Not quite sure what you are asking here. As for whether to include the romance, I don't think anyone can answer that except you, especially without all the details (having read the book).

My belief is that you should let your story lead and you follow. If a romantic subplot is where your story happens to lead, so be it. It doesn't sound as if you are trying to artificially splice it in just to have a romantic subplot. If your character is showing romantic interest in another character, don't steer them away. If their relationship falls through in a painful and messy way, let that happen.

If you're worried about the slow build of the relationship, I'm writing a series and my female MC and her love interest don't even kiss until the third book. (My male MC has a romantic subplot that develops earlier and more quickly, however.) They spend a long time developing a friendship, but initially neither has any romantic intention. Personally I prefer a slow burn; it's more realistic (how many books have I read where the main couple meet, fall in love and make out a few times in the span of a few weeks?).

As a general rule, the more sexual tension you build throughout the story, the more release you will eventually need. Multiple books of a developing romance won't end with just a chaste kiss...what with the build of tension, you'll want things to get more heated proportional to the buildup (the payoff you seem to be describing). Of course, if your character doesn't want to spread his illness (I assume he's not so selfish that he'd risk infecting her with it) actual sex is out of the question.

I think you can make anything "work." Until you be more specific, I won't have much advice as to how.
 
So, I have to ask, how do y'all handle romance. Right now I am writing one that is a slow build. A date here, some hand holding there, and so on. It'll take an entire book for my MMC to even admit he is in love and wants to have a relationship with this girl. Is that too long of a withholding without enough of a lay off. I'd like to note that the MMC is dead set on not having a relationship because of a damaging, socially, mentally, and physically and blood borne disease that he doesn't want to spread. But after meeting her and almost dying decides life is too short to live without love. Does this work or is it too much held back with not enough pay off?

It's taking me a whole book to even ease into the concept. I want to try it, and will probably do so in the later books.

Now? No heavy romance, just glimmers.

Can he love her without infecting her with the disease? That's the main question. If it's too much of a risk, it would make sense if he loved her so much, so not to have a chance of spreading his ailment to her, by breaking of the relationship.

It could work if he's extra careful around her, and has no intercourse, as everyone said. I agree with skip.knox, I would really have to read more.
 

Heliotrope

Staff
Article Team
I love romance sub plots. Love them. I include them in all my stories, usually. Even my POV, which is for kids, has a small romance subplot that ends in a first kiss. I just feel it is very humanizing for a character to be in love. It adds another dimension to the character that makes them altruistic and more sympathetic to the reader.

In your case, a slow boil is not an issue, I don't think. If it makes sense to take it slow then take it slow.
 
C

Chessie

Guest
So, I have to ask, how do y'all handle romance. Right now I am writing one that is a slow build. A date here, some hand holding there, and so on. It'll take an entire book for my MMC to even admit he is in love and wants to have a relationship with this girl. Is that too long of a withholding without enough of a lay off. I'd like to note that the MMC is dead set on not having a relationship because of a damaging, socially, mentally, and physically and blood borne disease that he doesn't want to spread. But after meeting her and almost dying decides life is too short to live without love. Does this work or is it too much held back with not enough pay off?
First, decide whether if you're doing a love subplot or a romance one. If it's romance, then there must be a happy ending aka, HFN (happy for now) or HEA (happily ever after). A love story doesn't need to end with the couple together. A romance one must.

So with that said, you have the right idea of slowly intertwining them towards togetherness. And it sounds like they end up together from your posts. Here are the elements you need in order to have a successful romance (sub)plot:

-when they first meet on page, there must be some sort of conflict. In many romances, they don't like each other from the start. Some examples include she witnesses him being a jerk to someone and she decides he's not a nice person, he's rude to her somehow, she's rude to him, maybe there's something more taboo like stepbrother or whatever. But there needs to be something that makes them both go "uh...no" besides their own insecurities.

-Speaking of insecurities, each hero must have that something holding them back from wanting a true love relationship. For example, in the fantasy romance I'm working on the heroes are pushed into an arranged marriage (conflict). He's cold because he's harboring a deep secret, which prevents him from opening up and trusting her. She's resentful of being pushed into a marriage and also annoyed by his bad attitude. How are they going to live happily ever after? Because it's a romance, readers know that they WILL end up together but how?

-Their insecurities must bring them close, then tear them apart, bring them close, then tear them apart, etc.

-**KEY point: the must be immediately attracted to one another. Remember when I said they need conflict? Yeah but oh, he's just so hot! She's so breathtakingly beautiful! They have to be physically, emotionally, chemically attracted to one another because it will be the foundation of their adhesion.

-They have to be brought together somehow in the plot. Maybe they have to adventure together, or solve a mystery together. They have to be forced to deal with one another, face to face, daily.

-They start to fall in love with one another because the hotness just draws them in. They have insecurities and doubts about the other person but the potency of chemical lust is bonding them together. Falling in love happens through tender moments, dates, saving each other's hides, emotional turbulence, little spats, making out, sex, etc.Think of how real life romances go.

-Their insecurities eventually get the best of them. They start looking for evidence to confirm their doubts. This leads to fighting, no way jose am I going to be with that person, etc.

-They break up. Important part of the romance plot. But before they break up they have sex or do something physical which puts them on cloud nine so the breakup stings baby, it stings.

-They realize how foolish they are when all they had was lost. During the falling in love, sometimes they thought it could work. Now, they realize what they had with each other was magical and here is where allies come in. Someone talks sense into the heroes and they now suddenly...

-want to get back what they lost. They are willing to do whatever it takes to win back their love.

-they make a grand gesture (radio at the window) to win back their love

-they make up and live happily ever after


That's basically it. But I encourage you to read more about romance plots because there's a specific way they should go, even if it's just a subplot. Good luck!
 
First, decide whether if you're doing a love subplot or a romance one. If it's romance, then there must be a happy ending aka, HFN (happy for now) or HEA (happily ever after). A love story doesn't need to end with the couple together. A romance one must.

So with that said, you have the right idea of slowly intertwining them towards togetherness. And it sounds like they end up together from your posts. Here are the elements you need in order to have a successful romance (sub)plot:

-when they first meet on page, there must be some sort of conflict. In many romances, they don't like each other from the start. Some examples include she witnesses him being a jerk to someone and she decides he's not a nice person, he's rude to her somehow, she's rude to him, maybe there's something more taboo like stepbrother or whatever. But there needs to be something that makes them both go "uh...no" besides their own insecurities.

-Speaking of insecurities, each hero must have that something holding them back from wanting a true love relationship. For example, in the fantasy romance I'm working on the heroes are pushed into an arranged marriage (conflict). He's cold because he's harboring a deep secret, which prevents him from opening up and trusting her. She's resentful of being pushed into a marriage and also annoyed by his bad attitude. How are they going to live happily ever after? Because it's a romance, readers know that they WILL end up together but how?

-Their insecurities must bring them close, then tear them apart, bring them close, then tear them apart, etc.

-**KEY point: the must be immediately attracted to one another. Remember when I said they need conflict? Yeah but oh, he's just so hot! She's so breathtakingly beautiful! They have to be physically, emotionally, chemically attracted to one another because it will be the foundation of their adhesion.

-They have to be brought together somehow in the plot. Maybe they have to adventure together, or solve a mystery together. They have to be forced to deal with one another, face to face, daily.

-They start to fall in love with one another because the hotness just draws them in. They have insecurities and doubts about the other person but the potency of chemical lust is bonding them together. Falling in love happens through tender moments, dates, saving each other's hides, emotional turbulence, little spats, making out, sex, etc.Think of how real life romances go.

-Their insecurities eventually get the best of them. They start looking for evidence to confirm their doubts. This leads to fighting, no way jose am I going to be with that person, etc.

-They break up. Important part of the romance plot. But before they break up they have sex or do something physical which puts them on cloud nine so the breakup stings baby, it stings.

-They realize how foolish they are when all they had was lost. During the falling in love, sometimes they thought it could work. Now, they realize what they had with each other was magical and here is where allies come in. Someone talks sense into the heroes and they now suddenly...

-want to get back what they lost. They are willing to do whatever it takes to win back their love.

-they make a grand gesture (radio at the window) to win back their love

-they make up and live happily ever after


That's basically it. But I encourage you to read more about romance plots because there's a specific way they should go, even if it's just a subplot. Good luck!

I have to severely question all of this...

This is a good formula, but this isn't how romances *have* to go. There isn't really a standard...the way I see it, characters will do what characters will do.

I think the most important takeaway is that there has to be conflict. They're being pulled together, but they're also being pulled apart. You can't just have them go on dates and make out and everything be peachy. Fighting, difficult circumstances, personal problems...that's what makes a romance worth reading about. CONFLICT.

The part I question is, MUST they be immediately attracted to one another? And MUST it be physical attraction? Romances grounded in physical attraction end up being shallow and vapid, in my opinion. Physical attraction is important...but not THE MOST important thing.

I don't know, to me, it just seems unrealistic because firstly, I've never been *immediately* attracted to someone upon meeting them, at least not in the way you're talking about, and secondly, I often don't find someone attractive until I like their personality and character, until I've already fallen for them as a person...maybe I'm weird? I know some people I consider very attractive, but I dislike them anyway because they are jerks. Does love have to depend on both characters being supermodels that blow the other away with their gorgeousness? no...

Seriously, if I have to read another reiteration of: *two characters meet* "OMG!!!! THIS IS LITERALLY THE HOTTEST PERSON I HAVE SEEN IN MY ENTIRE LIFE!!!!" I will roll my eyes so hard I will have to get them surgically reattached.
 
Most importantly would be how they act, at least that is how it works for me, and I use that setup in my story and for MC's. Psychical beauty is a bonus though. I mean if a gorgeous woman walks past my MC, He is gonna notice. Now if she is a bad tempered and rotten to the core, he'll probably cut contact with her, if he has the possibility to do so at least.

My romances tend to start with friendship, not with a first glance of a attractive man/woman. The two are close friends, as the story progresses they start to really feel for each other.

Once they get together and all is good, I'll probably kill off one, or both. Lol, actually it is a possibility.
 

Ireth

Myth Weaver
That said, I would appreciate some suggestions for how to place conflict into my romance subplot (that isn't a love triangle)

There's always a conflict of interests or loyalties. Maybe one has some affiliation to something the other absolutely hates. Maybe their personalities clash. Maybe the guy's friend is a murderer, and the guy has to help him cover it up, which causes the girl to be suspicious. Just throwing ideas out there. ^^
 
C

Chessie

Guest
Dragon, I write only romance and have studied romance plots for a very long time. Pretty sure I know what I'm talking about. I'm trying to help Brian understand the weavings of a romance plot, which is not the same as other plots. Characters can't just do whatever they want. There are certain paramaters and elements within the workings of romance stories. As an avid reader and writer of romance, my post came with many years of experience.
 
Dragon, I write only romance and have studied romance plots for a very long time. Pretty sure I know what I'm talking about. I'm trying to help Brian understand the weavings of a romance plot, which is not the same as other plots. Characters can't just do whatever they want. There are certain paramaters and elements within the workings of romance stories. As an avid reader and writer of romance, my post came with many years of experience.

Must a romance subplot work in a different way than romance actually works in life, though...?

I mean, I guess if it's not meant to be realistic...
 
C

Chessie

Guest
You're not a romance reader. You're not in the target audience. So therefore, how would you know what romance readers like/want? Subplots should be done just as right as main plots, doesn't matter what they are. If the OP wants to write a good romance subplot then there are certain parameters that must be followed. The whole idea of love at first sight is something you don't understand because, again, that's not your genre. If you don't like it then I'm sorry, but that's how it's done. Talk to any romance author. I've read a ton of romance books of all niches and watched movies and television shows in the genre. I write fantasy & historical romance. So you can disagree with me all you want. My response wasn't for you.

Fiction doesn't need to be realistic. It's a fantasy. People who read romance and fantasy want...a fantasy. Not reality.
 

TheKillerBs

Maester
There is the lifelong friends realising they've been in love for a long time plot though. That one isn't love at first sight, although there's still that moment where they see each other with new eyes (or one of them because the other one already knew).
 
You're not a romance reader. You're not in the target audience. So therefore, how would you know what romance readers like/want? Subplots should be done just as right as main plots, doesn't matter what they are. If the OP wants to write a good romance subplot then there are certain parameters that must be followed. The whole idea of love at first sight is something you don't understand because, again, that's not your genre. If you don't like it then I'm sorry, but that's how it's done. Talk to any romance author. I've read a ton of romance books of all niches and watched movies and television shows in the genre. I write fantasy & historical romance. So you can disagree with me all you want. My response wasn't for you.

Fiction doesn't need to be realistic. It's a fantasy. People who read romance and fantasy want...a fantasy. Not reality.

The OP's readers aren't romance readers either. They're fantasy readers, I assume. True, i don't read romance, but many of the books i read have romance subplots (which I DO enjoy) and perhaps readers who don't read within the romance genre want different things from a romance subplot than a romance reader would want from a romance story? I mean, if I am not a complete and total outlier...?
 
C

Chessie

Guest
@ Killer Bs: It's not so much love at first sight as lust at first sight. Physical attraction is the foundation of any budding romance. That's not shallow, it's biology. This is just one component though. A good romance has a lot going on at once between the heroes and inside themselves. It'll be complicated and beautiful at the same time.
 
A romance novel encompasses one aspect of life (romance) while a fantasy novel has much more going on, like saving the world, etc. A fantasy audience is going to want something different than a romance audience.

Or at least I (fantasy audience) do...
 
Top