Evil for no reason but NOT cliche?

[Kit]

Yeah, but who says "dark" has negative connotations to them? Maybe when they say "Dark Lord" they have the same warm fuzzies that I get when I hear someone say "fluffy bunnies." Maybe they instinctively like dark places (they have highly sensitive eyes, for example, and bright light hurts them), so in a cultural sense "dark" things are considered positive, much in the same way that humans are more peaceful and friendly when in an environment with a lot of plants and trees

See Anne Bishop's Dark Jewels series for an interesting take on "dark" being positive.

[Steerpike]

To clarify, since I obviously upset you steerpike, I'm not saying it would hurt a story if you had an evil race... I just don't think it would be a terribly successful group of people. If you have people who are born evil, who nurtures them, evil mothers? Why? Why would someone evil, concerned only for themself ever even choose to hold or nurse a baby? And what about when children are older? What's to stop any adult walking by from just stabbing that little evil child in the chest and eating their heart for breakfast? And where did the next generation come from? Do evil people love or is every one of them a product of rape? And if that's the case why wouldn't the evil women just go castrate all the evil raping men? And then the men retaliate and burn all the evil women? And how do all these evil people eat? Evil farmers and milkmaids?

I don't think it would be too difficult to come up with answers for each of those questions for your fantasy race. Right off the top of my head, I can think of self-interest, biological imperatives, creation by outside forces, and control by outside forces. I don't see anything here that is necessarily an obstacle to having an evil race. You wouldn't need all of them in any given instance. In a fantasy story, so long as you maintain logical consistency you have free reign to develop the race and answer such questions in any way you choose. I don't see any of these being insurmountable.

[Caged Maiden]

True that. But some people choose an overwhelmingly evil race without considering the reasons for it. I never said it was impossible, and I certainly would encourage anyone who felt up for it to challenge themselves, but it seems like sometimes people just think, "Okay so I wrote about this people and that culture... now I better put in an evil race for balance and plot direction." and that can come off as a little lazy. Not everything needs something "evil" driving it, sometimes people just have different motivations.

[Phin Scardaw]

And how do all these evil people eat? Evil farmers and milkmaids?

I think that "Evil Milkmaids" is an excellent name for an all-girl punk rock band.

I agree with most of what anihow has said here. In fact, I suppose with all of it. And the reason why is mainly because it backs up what I was saying earlier about how a truly evil culture is a degenerative and self-destructive culture, like what is portrayed in Lord of the Flies where there are no babies, no milkmaids, no production of any kind.

If a creature acts out of its own natural impulses then its acts can't be called evil. Is an Orc that hunts and kills any different from a mountain lion that does the same? To be evil, one has to have also the choice to be good. The Orcs, despite having intelligence and language, don't seem to have that choice. They were created as they are, and are controlled by their masters. They are monsters, plain and simple, and so are relegated to a more animal domain. They are more dangerous than animals, but no more evil than a pack of wolves. Is it possible to rehabilitate them? Maybe Merry and Pippin could open up a Center for Orc Recovery somewhere in the Shire.

Realistically, I think that the only real possibility for an evil race and culture is if the people were heavily influenced by propaganda, indoctrinated both by State and Church, so that they could all believe that whatever atrocities they committed would be justifiable. Which is an interesting place to begin storytelling. There' a lot of potential there. Of course, they wouldn't see their actions as evil, I suppose, much like fanatical religious terrorists.

Personally, I like to write and read stories that have no evil characters, like The Telling by Ursula LeGuin. There is a lot of what could be called evil acts, such as the destruction of an entire culture, with book-burning and everything - but none of the characters are true villains, even if they have some weaknesses that drive them to do less-than-noble things. I've given this a lot of thought actually and have dispensed with the idea of evil entirely in my writing. I think the conflicts that naturally arise in a person's life through human relationships, broken hearts, thwarted ambitions, health crises, and the need for spiritual fulfillment in those who hunger for the truth are more than enough fodder for truly literary endeavors - in fact, the Fantasy Genre sorely needs more of that, in my opinion!

[SeverinR]

Thou shalt not enjoy life

I don't think evil necessarily means no enjoyment. Just enjoyment outside of societies standards. Extreme religious people enjoy life, but they put drastic behavioral restrictions on themselves. Reversely, partiers go out nightly, drinking til they pass out, paying for sex, doing drugs, etc, they seem to have enjoyment. Life would be drastically different to live in an evil society, but I think life without enjoyment would change quickly. Although enjoyment for the lower people might not happen, the highers find enjoyment at the expense of the lower class.

I think that "Evil Milkmaids" is an excellent name for an all-girl punk rock band.

Definately.

How about lepper Milkmaids? Not a drink I'd look forward too.

I was surprised, there is no band by that name(Evil milkmaids) There is a band Milkmaids.

I have considered making my orcs, more society oriented, a lower inteligent marauding viking like group of humanoids. Rather then the typical evil bloodthirsty group most think of. They will still be enemies to elves.