Magic that's FUN to read?

[Zephon]

Does anyone else think that alot of the magical scenes in fantasy writing are somewhat boring? I don't know exactly what it is, but reading about magic, or battles fought with magic, often seem dull to me. I think a big part of this is the use of magic as Dues ex Machina, which many authors seem to resort to. Another aspect may be that it's incredibly difficult to understand magic within the world of the story. I think sometimes the authors themselves don't understand the magic in their own stories, so it comes off not nesscarily as mysterious, but rather confusing or vague.

Does anyone share similar, or totally opposite, obvservations? Also does anyone have some reading suggestions for works that have a truly exciting magical elements/ scenes?

[ThinkerX]

In 'Desolation Road', one of the main characters carves a place for himself out of a tall spire. The chamber at the top of the spire offers a truly breathtaking view - but this character makes the deliberate decision to visit that chamber and take in that view only on rare occasions - because to do so as a matter of daily course would lessen the impact and wonder of that view, rendering it trivial.

George Martin, in the prep work for 'Game of Thrones', spent a *lot* of time considering two possible scenario's, going back and forth repeatedly: a world with no true magic, and a world with a little magic. He NEVER considered a world with a *lot* of magic. In the end he went with a world that had a little magic, because when magic did appear, it was something truly wondrous.

Have a clue now?

[T.Allen.Smith]

I tend to agree with Thinker on this. Keeping the the magic magical is usually my preference.

However, there are some cases where defined magic systems are fun. Many people prefer them.

The question is, do you want your magic system to have a role in your story that is almost on the level of a main character?

In Rothfuss's books, his system is very logical & drawn out with a little mystery floating about. That was fun for me as a reader but not nearly as fun as those rare moments when magic is unleashed in Martin's Westeros.

"Fun" is a matter of taste. Outside of that, good writing trumps all.

[The Din]

It should be fun. Magic is the special effects of literary fantasy. I personally am sick of reading long drawn out magic systems that require you to learn fifty new terms and take a chemistry course. An author shouldn't take time out of telling the story to force his/her convoluted concoction upon the reader, there's enough metaphorical chicken choking in the genre as it is.

If you can slug it out, Wheel of Time has quite a few cool magic scenes.

[Zephon]

In 'Desolation Road', one of the main characters carves a place for himself out of a tall spire. The chamber at the top of the spire offers a truly breathtaking view - but this character makes the deliberate decision to visit that chamber and take in that view only on rare occasions - because to do so as a matter of daily course would lessen the impact and wonder of that view, rendering it trivial.

George Martin, in the prep work for 'Game of Thrones', spent a *lot* of time considering two possible scenario's, going back and forth repeatedly: a world with no true magic, and a world with a little magic. He NEVER considered a world with a *lot* of magic. In the end he went with a world that had a little magic, because when magic did appear, it was something truly wondrous.

Have a clue now?

Good post. You sort of tore apart Alot of great(or at least best selling) fantasy authors, but that's exactly what I think modern fantasy authors should do.

I think Alot of authors are so eager to write about magic that many don't consider if they should. I also think Din had a point in saying the magic should accentuate the story, not make it.

My first exposure to fantasy actually came through playing mmorpg's(online computer games). You could see your wizard/mage summon a fire ball, or magical bolt of some type, and then fling it at an oncoming enemy. It was awesome. However, I don't think the situation translates well in written word. It was a visual experience playing a computer game, but the same appeal and excitement- I think- is hard to muster with words.

[ThinkerX]

Video games tend to treat wizards as artillery pieces.

A well written story will treat them as people.

Take Gandalf, for example, from the 'Lord of the Rings' - he worked little in the way of flashy magic, but was quite an engrossing character.

Or take some of Glen Cooks wizards from the Dark Empire series. He had a couple of them capable of leveling cities, but he saddled them with wives and mired them in domestic affairs. (Of course, he had quite a few other wizards that were major psychopaths, too).

[The Dark One]

Have to say, my advice would be concentrate on the story and let the magic grow organically from there. If you start with the magic, you might find yourself either making up something that doesn't quite make sense...or even worse, force the plot to fit the magic in a way that doesn't quite gel.

In my book, the story always comes first.

This probably isn't a terribly helpful post...

[Chilari]

In my view, magic is fine for computer games, when you can heal yourself or set an enemy on fire with a click of your mouse, but the same kind of magic wouldn't work in a story. It barely works in the computer game worlds. For example, while playing Skyrim yesterday I cam across a Stormcloak camp where 3 NPCs were injured. My heal other spell (or whatever it's called) did nothing to them, because they're not there to be healed, they're there to be gritty representations of the war between the Stormcloaks and the Empire. So then I stole their healing potions. Point is, magic isn't even consistent in the game world. It is there solely to serve the player. It is a weapon or it is armour, but it is not practical in the sense that it makes life easier for anyone at all in a day to day way.

Generally, I avoid magic. If I use it in a story I work through it very carefully in the planning stages, make sure it's not something that the main character can just draw upon when they feel like it, and generally have it as a background force or something that cannot be actively used by humans. For example, in one story I was working on once, I had magic weakened by iron. Since the story was set in an iron age society, most people couldn't use magic becuase they'd been in contact with iron all their lives - iron tools and weapons, iron nails in their houses, iron shoes on their horses, iron door hinges, cooking knives, etc. But there were a few small groups that avoided contact with iron deliberately so they could use magic. Even for them, magic was quite limited. I'd decided that all magic would be of the binding type - binding themselves to ghosts to gain the power of the long-dead, or binding their enemies to some sort of curse, with that spell's power based on how much that was part of the victim was part of the spell (like hair, toenail clippings, treasured items etc). No fireballs or healing spells.

In another story, magic was merely a background force, what enabled certain individuals to become immortal if the conditions were right. Magic was dependant on human imagination. Thus if enough people believed or imagined that there was a human-shaped being walking around which represented death, the magic would latch onto someone who fulfilled certain criteria relating to that and when they died, make them immortal.

But really, I find magic works best when left alone. Look at how Terry Pratchett did it - there's magic, sure, but mostly the Wizards leave well enough alone and when magic does come into the equation, it's in the form of giant city-destroying things which must be overcome, not things that can really help people, or it's witch magic which most of the time isn't magic at all.

[JCFarnham]

The kind of magic I enjoy and write (when called for) is the kind that has ONE simple idea at its core. Like my own in Faebound:

- If you aren't a magical being, then touching such energies will probably fry you on the spot.

This gives rise to more than enough complications, conflict and other bits and pieces that I don't neeeeeeed books and books worth of complicated rules.

A lot of the time I think people feel they have to have go into ridiculous amounts of detail for it to be a working magic system. Having a defined system doesn't necessarily mean the same thing as having loads of rules. That one little stipulation about my system has loads of side effects and "ripples" throughout the setting. Why would I need more?

I do define more and more as I go on, but these aren't "core principles" of the system, these are the "ripples". Who uses this unknowable energy/magic? Who CAN? What if they can't? Is there a workable loop hole? Yes. Enchanted items? Yes. How do non-magical beings get their hands on such artefacts? Well, there in lays the conflict, plot and story

You only need one core principle/rule/idea. Work through that and you'll find plenty of stuff to flesh it out.


EDIT: And by GOSH make sure it works as an element of the setting and not outside it, or as an "add on". To me magic works best if its inherent. The world works the way it does because of the magic, etc. This isn't to say that it can't be unknown, unknowable, weird, or surreal.

Just... make sure you think about the consequences of having magic. All of them.

[Mindfire]

Hey guys. I'm going against the grain on this one. While "subtle" or "sparse" magic is one way to go... I typically find it boring*. It's one of the main reasons I'm not reading A Song of Ice and Fire as a matter of fact. I also resent this idea that using more overt magic is not the "proper way" for a modern fantasy writer to do things. Flashy magic can work outside a visual medium and personally I find it to be more interesting.

Avatar: The Last Airbender is a wonderful show. Bending is roughly equivalent to magic, and it's everywhere! Now you might think that this kind of magic would be difficult to transfer to the written word, but you'd be wrong. And if you read Jim Butcher's Codex Alera series, you'd find out just how wrong. Furycrafting in Alera has many similarities to Avatar's bending. And the people use it to do incredible things, from subtle things like healing, empathy, and emotional manipulation to more flashy and exciting things like creating explosions, encasing themselves in metal skin, and setting off entire volcanoes! Codex Alera currently occupies my "favorite fantasy series" slot, even above great classics like Lord of the Rings and Narnia, because it's the first series I've come across that's done exactly, to a T, what I want in my fantasy. Engrossing plot? Check. Interesting characters? Check. Well-developed cultures? Check. Clever twists and turns? Check. Powerful, pervasive, and fun-to-read magic systems? Triple check.

GRR Martin has had great success with his way of doing things. But that doesn't mean that "modern" fantasy writers ought only do things his way from now on. And if they do, I'll be disappointed.


Now, on the other hand, writing magic as if it were a precise science with a D&D style rulebook, a mana pool, and "hit points" is also a most grave error and anything that smacks of this should be avoided at all costs.




*Although I do like the Redwall books and Ranger's Apprentice.