Self-publishing and Legacy Publishing

[Lord Darkstorm]

don't think that's the case. As noted above, it is a business decision. You may have something very well written, but if it doesn't meet with what a publisher is looking for, or they don't think they can position themselves to sell a lot of it, then they'll pass.

And they you submit it to another publisher, and another. There is a nifty book called 'the first five pages', which describes the lengths a publisher goes through to find a reason to reject your story. Honestly, I think 90% or more of what people submit isn't worth my time. It isn't cost, it isn't the amount someone is making, but me, the reader is going to give you how many hours of my life for your story? This is the thing many people self publishing don't think about or care about. If we aren't writing for an audience, why bother publishing it at all? My day job is a consultant, and I'm pretty good at that. The only reason I am is because I understand one thing about what I do...It isn't for me. I don't use any of the code I end up writing, and the designs I put together are created for one purpose, the person who will be using it. While writing software and writing fiction are not the same thing, the end result is similar, both are done for someone else.

Are publishers perfect? No, I think they do miss things, but I'd rather miss out on one good book, than have to read several chapters of a couple dozen bad books. It's a tradeoff, someone else does the job I don't want to do, and I'm not going to go searching the net for some blog that does the same job as a publisher...but for free? I understand a publisher, they are doing it for a living, the blog...well, I've seen lots of crappy blogs, reposting of blogs, and outright bad ones. So, the suggestion is that the new era of finding books will be to spend days searching blogs and reviews to try and find good books...when I could go to tor or ace or one of the dozen other respectable publishing houses and see what they have spent many thankless hours sifting through pure crud to find something I might actually enjoy.

I'm not seeing the new 'era' as an improvement, only a way for more people to skip the important part of learning to write well and go straight for conning someone out of their time and money. New people to try and take the place of real editors by having a blog where they can bemoan the hours of slashing through the self published slush pile to find the gems....

I'm quite pleased there are still thousands of books that are already published that I haven't yet read that might still be worth reading and just wait for the new 'era' to crumble under it's own weight of slush...

[Steerpike]

However, I still believe that in the vast majority of cases it's just not good enough of a book.

Oh, I think we agree on that. I'm just pointing out that there are good authors writing good stories that are choosing to go the self-published route (if you can make it work, financially it is advantageous). I think we'll see more and more of that in the coming years. But the real problem is, as you say, most of the self-published work simply isn't that good, and it is hard for readers to wade through it all so they use traditional publishers as gatekeepers.

Personally, I think there would be value to forming a sort of self-publishing imprint that acts as a gatekeeper.

[Christopher Wright]

Honestly, if you don't think a book that isn't published by a publisher is worth taking the risk, then by all that is holy just don't buy self-published stuff.

Right now there is an audience for self-published work, and those of us who are serious about growing it will either succeed or fail, but it doesn't require everyone to buy in. I think you guys are missing out, but obviously y'all don't. So... that's the way it is, we all move on, and EVERYBODY LIVES.

[The Dark One]

Tried to post this before, but it disappeared. If it turns up twice I apologise...

Must say I agree with Darkstorm, with the proviso that there ARE good self-published books out there as well as BAD books put out by commercial publishers. Lots of them in fact.

What I will say, having trawled through these forums for a while now, is that I think many unpublished writers are a bit self-conscious and it really shows. There are quite a lot of regular posters who seem very articulate and knowledgeable when talking about writing in general and I think: that person can write. Then, when the same person puts up some of their own work, I am shocked at how stilted and uncertain it is. I can't believe it's the same writer!

Relax! Find your natural voice and write your stories with the same confidence you have when expressing your opinions.

[Telcontar]

There really is very little need to ever 'take a chance' on a book, self-published or no. Amazon let's you read 10% of all books before you buy. Most other purchasing sites let you read samples of varying sizes as well.

Even when I still bought physical books (which, since getting a nook, I haven't in quite a while) I almost never bought a book based entirely off the cover and back cover copy. I would read a few pages. The couple of times I decided to 'just buy' I ended up regretting it half the time.

I can understand what Lord Darkstorm said about not wanting to wade through the drek, but there aren't actually that many people who do that. Sales of self-published books are driven primarily by the same thing sales of traditionally-published books are - word of mouth.

[Christopher Wright]

My business model is to publish serially on the web first. Having it freely accessible lowers the risk to a certain extent because there's no financial risk, only a risk of time and sanity, and hey, it's the Internet--sanity is iffy to start with.

So!

The theory being, a core audience is built on my site and spreads out from there.

[Steerpike]

Christopher:

I've thought about a similar approach as well. The only thing that has stopped me so far is that I'm not convinced that signaling potential readers that your work isn't worth paying for is the best strategy in the long run. What are your thoughts on that?

[Christopher Wright]

Well webcomics have been giving their work away for free for as long as I've been doing it (16 years) and nobody complains about the quality of those. Well, I mean, people DO complain, but it doesn't wreck the business model.

And webfiction has been on the web for longer than that--heck, that goes back to the old days when you'd dial in to a BBS and could only view text, period.

There will be people who think that because it's available for free, it's not worth anything. They aren't going to be your target market. And building an audience is a slow process--it's a long-term game, and it'll take years. This is true for almost everything these days.

But there are advantages--some of the people who read my serial stuff very cheerfully help edit what I post. Crowd-sourced editing for the win! So when I finally put it in ebook form it will be a lot cleaner than it would have been otherwise.

[Lord Darkstorm]

I think free online is going to be the same as self publishing, or getting a publisher to buy it, and that is the shear volume of free content on the web. It isn't easy to convince people to take the time and read what you put out, since even for free, the reader pays in time. Which is why having a professional who's livelihood depends on the decisions they make is a more appealing choice for many of us in where to spend out time. I doubt I am the only person who feels their time is far more valuable than the purchase price of a book. How many stories are put here for someone to give crits to that don't have many people read it? And this is a site where many people come to help out other writers.

Everyone who dreams of being famous can very cheaply publish anything to the web, and even if you pay google to put you at the top of the search list, it won't guaranty people will like what you put up there. Which puts it all back into the big huge swamp of words floating around hoping for someone to pay attention to them.

In the past few years the best books I've read were all recommended by friends, and I'm positive if one publisher hadn't picked it up, another would have. Good stories will find their way up, I agree with that, but for it to get there, someone has to actually read it before they will recommend it. Most of the people I know view self publishing with the same dislike I have for it. If we want amateur writing there are thousands of place on the net to get it for free, but I've yet to get a recommendation from a friend for some incredible story on the web that I should take the time to read. Maybe I don't have friends scouring the web for good fiction, and their friends don't either...or maybe they are like me and are willing to pay someone else to do that work for us. ???

Web comics are different, and I know because I read a few of them. I spend 10 to 15 minutes in the morning reading the comics that interest me. So even not so good web comics are only taking a minute or two of my day at most. A short story can take considerable more time to read, which requires a much higher investment of my time.

So anyone looking for readers is really competing for the readers time, more so than their money. Unless you can make them feel your story justifies their time, you won't likely get their money.

[Ankari]

I have never made a decision to buy or not buy a book based on the publisher. My steps for deciding if a story is worth my time is to look at the production quality of the cover, then read the back cover blurb, then read the first 10 pages. If it seems like the kind of story I want to read, I buy it.

That being said, I think the problem is that all self publishers are limited to e-books. The demand, at least for me, is generated at the bookstore than bought in e-book. So the problem isn't that a book is self published or not, its the demand, and by extension, marketing of the book that falters for self-publishing authors.

If you are going to do everything yourself you need to do everything yourself. You need to generate hype. You need to get your name out there. You need to consider making physical books and selling them at whatever venue you can find. You need to do a lot of leg work.

Once you get the name out, it would be easier to sell your following books without so much sweat. People will know who you are, they will do the selling for you.