Plot problems

[ALB2012]

Give them something to get around. Doesn't have to be a conspiracy. Big unexpected monster, get them REALLY lost and then they ar arguments, even they cannot go the way they intended due to - road is blocked, pass has collapsed...whatever. They have to take an unexpected route.
Or they find something unexpected. Old ruins, strange item, subspace anomoly which they just have to investigate, hell even an injured creature who isn't what it seems.

Something which makes them stop. Perhaps they find a badly injured monster or whoever the "bad guys" are. Someone wants to help, the others don't. They find a tomb of person X, someone wants to go in an loot, someone else thinks it's graverobbing.

I don't know the characters but they surely can't all agree on everything. Or even someone is wrongly accused. Someone looses an item and it is found amongst the belongings of another, did they steal it? Was it simply dropped and picked up, was is planted there.

They will get to where they need to be, just make it sound its a roundabout route- if they get lost, argument of "we should have taken left path" etc.
Just a few ideas.

[Helen]

...it seems just like "they meet these people and this happens, move on. They meet that person and this happens, move on." Lather, rinse, repeat until the climax. There are some characters/things that recur in important places, but for the most part it's just one Wacky Wayside Tribe after another. Really not the plot I want -- I had enough of that in the prequel, where it was only the B-plot rather than the A-plot. I'm not sure I can generate enough emotional drama between the protags to intersperse the physical conflicts or other encounters nicely and keep it from being boring or repetitive. I could give an outline of the plot if that would help. Any thoughts?

I'm not seeing change anywhere.

The reason stuff happens is to slowly move away from the older positions.

That's where the themes come in.

I'm not going into the cave to dig out the treasure because it's golden and valuable, I'm really going into the cave to learn something, to be provoked and so on.

You'll end up changing your characters as people.

I get the feeling that that's your problem. That you're ignoring the psychological side.

The root of the emotional drama stems from their opposing psychological positions.

[ALB2012]

Well don't worry I just worked out I have to almost completely rewrite what i have done so far for book 3. I had this really complex ending which I am now convinced does not work, and consequently the whole lead in doesn't either. Fortunately I think I have a back up plan, which was sort of what i had originally anyway

[Ireth]

@ALB2012: Good ideas. They're most definitely going to get lost, as even their guide doesn't know which way to go to find the fugitive princess they're looking for. That'll cause some arguments. XD Plus the fact that they're being tracked by the Kings to make sure they actually find the princess will heighten the tension, as they all want to avoid finding the princess for her own sake.

@Helen: Firstly, hi. I don't think I've seen you much around the forums before. Secondly, I like your advice. I do plan on changing my characters, so the psychological side isn't completely ignored -- the mortals and their guide do change their feelings about one another over the course of the story -- the mortals will learn to trust their guide and not be so hostile to him, as he really is a decent but misguided individual; and the guide will accept that his paternal affection for the daughter of one of the mortals can never work out how he wants. Much of the emotional tension comes from the conflict between the guide and the mortal girl's real father, who feels that the guide is a threat to his relationship with his daughter.

[Penpilot]

Sounds like there isn't a build up of tension and plot points, a gradual climb to to-- well--- the climax. For me, the acts in my story usually have specific types of scenes in them and they build towards a big transition where something...well big... happens before moving into the next act. Here's a small basic break down, maybe it will help you in think about the way things are fitting and flowing together for your story.

Act -1

- Intro to major characters and seeing them in their ordinary life before the story really starts.
- Inciting incident
- Break into act two. The move from the ordinary world of the character's normal life and into the story world. This is a distinct transition point where the character has to choose to enter the story world. It's where Luke Skywalker chooses to go with Obi-Wan and they end up in the famous cantina scene.

Act 2 part 1 -

- With the characters now in the story world, this is what some screen writers call the fun and games section of a story. It's where most of the fun stuff that ends up in movie trailers comes from. In a road movie it's where the characters are on the road and meet with all the fun and interesting characters. It's where a thing called Promise of the Premise is fulfilled. Promise of the premise is fulfilling the basic expectations of what the story has promised, just by the basic type of story it is. Star wars promises that Luke will tangle with the Empire. This is where he meets Han Solo and they fight Tie fighters and Star destroyers. This is where "These are not the droids you are looking for" scene happens and where Ben Kenobi whips out his sabre.

- Break into Act 2, the mid-point. The mid-point of a story aka the mid-point climax is a incredibly important part of a story. It's either a spectacular success or a spectacular failure. If it's a success it's obviously a false success and the same with failure. It's the event that spins the characters into the second part of the story. It moves away from the fun and games and it's back to the story/plot and moving that ahead, hard. For Star wars this is when the Millennium Falcon get tractor beamed into the star destroyer putting the heroes in a terrible position.

Act 2 part 2 -

- If you have a successful mid-point, this is where the fall comes. The bad guys regroup, drop the kid gloves, and stop playing nice.
- If you have a failure mid-point, this is where the heroes regroup, lick their wounds, and put their nose to the grind stone with a plan to get them out of failure. Star wars they shut down the tractor beam, rescue the princess and make their escape.

- This section is also where the heroes deal with their doubts, and occur losses (Ben Kenobi).

- break into Act 3 - The heroes now have everything they need to win. In Star wars they have the Princess and the plans for the Death star.

Act 3

- This is where the heroes take what they've learned and figure out a plan on how to defeat the bad guys. This is where the Rebel Alliances figures out the big flaw in the Death Star's design.

- This is where the heroes try to execute their plan but it all goes to shit and they have to think on the fly to find a way to true victory. For Star wars this is when nobody can hit that damn thermal exhaust port square and Luke takes his run at it. All feels lost until he hears Ben understands and trusts that he has to use the Force and it's victory.



Well that's it. The major transitions and where I think stuff goes. I don't know how much it may help but it's here. Hope it helps.

[Ireth]

That's a really helpful breakdown, Penpilot! I'll be sure to put it to use. ^^

[Jessquoi]

I am definitely going to use this as a guide. I'm sure there are many stories where some of these parts are swapped around. But it definitely shows the importance of the rises and falls for the characters. It gives the story a flow, like waves for a ship to ride on.

[MongrelChuck]

Look at how many of the individual groups are truly 'necessary'. Could some of the groups be consolidated? Is there an opening for expansion to allow narrative elements from point B to be introduced at point A? Really this sort of thing is best solved by a good look over everything and finding those points that just read a little off, then go from there.

[wordwalker]

You could also look at it in terms of the scenes' effects. When characters are traveling, most encounters might not really connect to each other, except for things like:

• Attitudes. Who's the group's leader, and/or whose plan do they trust? What does each of them want, and why? Then, how does each encounter change those?
• Skills. Is anyone struggling to master some magic, or just to learn to fight (or to not fight, if trickier methods are called for)? How's each time help them along?
• Injuries. Who gets hurt and needs help --or killed-- when, and how's that affect the next time?
• News and clues. How much do they learn about the situation out there... and they realize their enemies have learned about them?

Think of each encounter as much in terms of how it affects the same ongoing things as how it's something separate.

[Addison]

So it sounds like your story starts of good then is either rising at barely a slope or just flat lining before peaking at the climax. Been there. :-(
Take a look at who your characters meet and why it's important, if at all, to meet them. Heck in a fantasy they don't have to meet actual people. They could be lost in a forest and meet a talking tree, a brownie who won't let them out of a pit. Heck they could meet an air elemental. So try thinking not so much as "who do they meet?" but more of "what do they meet?" That way the situation in which they meet these other characters could produce points of conflict or rising tension which will pick your story up.

For the record, that's why I like writing fantasy more than anything. The cast of characters is practically limitless.