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My 10 rules for interacting with various 10 rules of writing lists. ;-)

1. When another writer, regardless of how successful they are, attempts to tell you their 10 rules for writing, start throwing bricks at them until they go away.

2. It has to be bricks.

3. Seriously. Bricks carry both metaphorical and actual weight: metaphorical because they are the building blocks of much larger structures, much as words are building blocks of sentences, paragraphs, and stories. And they're also wicked heavy. The bricks, not the words.

4. If you throw enough bricks at a writer you'll get a closer understanding of the phrase "he collapsed like a sack of bricks." It's a very under-used phrase that I believe really needs to come into its own.

5. If you can't find bricks, I suppose cinder blocks will do, but I should point out that a cinder block is substantially heavier than a brick, and we writers are (according to the rest of the world) wan, pasty creatures who are weak and frail.

6. Throwing a brick is much harder than it looks. You'll have to get in close.

7. There's a fair chance that if a writer dispensing 10 rules advice sees you dragging a sack of bricks behind you, closing in, he (or she) will politely excuse him (or her) self and head for the nearest exist.

8. If #7 occurs, you've still solved the problem.

9. You may need to retain the services of a lawyer. If you cannot afford to retain the services of a lawyer, close your eyes and simply imagine that you're throwing bricks at the writer.

10. If the writer asks what you're doing, explain it in great detail. You may still achieve #7.
 

BWFoster78

Myth Weaver
Funny. I like it.

On a more serious note, I've read a lot of writing advice. At first, I rejected a lot of it. The more I learn, I find myself changing my mind.
 
I've been writing professionally for 19 years... not fiction, though. What I've found in career is that when a writer creates a methodology for writing, it's only helpful as a way to help the new writer organize and approach information. As such, any guide needs to be written in the same way that training wheels are applied to bikes -- with the expectation, acknowledged between both parties, that they will be abandoned as the writer develops his or her own methodology.

Any publication of "advice" that is more fixed than that isn't a writing guide, it's a style guide, and there is a difference. If someone is hiring me to write for them, I will cheerfully use the style guide. In any other situation, I will lob the goddamn brick.
 

BWFoster78

Myth Weaver
I think you have to differentiate between technique and methodology.

I hesitate to try to instruct anyone on methodology for the reasons you stated. It's fine to say: this is the way I do it. It can possibly give others an idea to try to see if it works for them. It's really silly to try to tell someone: this is the only methodology that works. You have to do it this way. People are too different to apply a cookie cutter to a creative process.

On the other hand, I think that techniques are prone to hard and fast rules (with the oft stated caveat that any rule can be broken as long as you understand why you're breaking it and believe that the benefits outweigh the consequences). It's to these kinds of lists that I refer.

I read/heard when I first started writing fiction that I should only use "said" as a speech tag. I resisted at first. The more I learn, however, the more I agree that the advice is correct. It works better. Sure, you can find exceptions as with any rule, but it's an excellent rule of thumb for a top ten list.
 
The reason why top ten lists ultimately fail is because the English language is not now, nor has it ever been, consistent. It is an amalgam of at least two or three different languages, incorporates some of the rules of each, borrows a billion words from other languages and throws it all in a pot. It's utterly frustrating to learn because it doesn't follow its own rules... but that also means you can do absolutely wonderful things with it.

But writers recoil from that, and spend great amounts of time and energy encouraging other writers not to even try.

Typical conversation: Writer: "Well, [writer x] has used this very successfully."

Other Writer: "Yeah, but you're not [writer x]."

Well, duh. And here's the other side of that comment: If you don't ever take the kinds of risks that these famous writers did before they were famous YOU WILL NEVER BE AS GOOD AS THEM.

How many people waste their time trying to enforce rules that will, if followed, mostly ensconce the writer in a niche of comfortable mediocrity, where nothing truly fantastic is achieved because nothing at all is put on the line?

I would rather fail spectacularly with every thing I try than do that. And I probably will. I'm willing to live with that.

Hence the bricks.
 

Telcontar

Staff
Moderator
Very entertaining, and I often feel the same way. However, I often read such lists anyway, with the caveat that I'm saying: "No, no, no, yes, yes with exceptions, yes but that's a poor explanation..." in my head. I'm a good enough writer to judge for myself on most of this advice - but that doesn't mean I stop looking for new points of view, or new insight.

Even if it gets tiring.

(amusingly, this is close to the subject of an article I'll have coming up on Mythic Scribes very soon).
 

BWFoster78

Myth Weaver
Wow, Christopher, this is apparently a touchy subject for you, or, at least, you have much stronger opinions on it than I do.

I tend to have a different viewpoint than you, I think, on the whole writing thing. It sounds like (and I hope I'm not misinterpreting you) you're trying to create art with words. If that's your thing, more power to you.

I'm trying to tell a story. My goal is for my writing not to get in the way of the reader's enjoyment of the tale I'm spinning. Hence, lists and rules are good things.
 
Er... it's a little touchy, I guess. Ahem.

I see myself as a storyteller too, but I won't be denied the full toolset just because some guy hates claw hammers. And my basic theory is an audience is willing to accept more than a lot of people assume they will.
 

Telcontar

Staff
Moderator
Generally the people giving the advice are writers. Writers are more touchy about the rules than readers, as we have seen time and time again.
 

BWFoster78

Myth Weaver
Er... it's a little touchy, I guess. Ahem.

I see myself as a storyteller too, but I won't be denied the full toolset just because some guy hates claw hammers. And my basic theory is an audience is willing to accept more than a lot of people assume they will.

I feel myself being sucked into, yet again, the argument we've had several times.

The rules are there for your benefit. They seek to convey in a concise manner the lessons learned by generations of writers. Following them, in general, makes your writing stronger and tighter.

I am not implying or trying to say in any form or fashion that you cannot write something fantastic while breaking all the rules. If you have that ability, good for you. If you don't have that ability but want to develop that ability, good for you. Have fun! (not being sarcastic here. Seriously, experimenting can be fun.)

I think that the vast majority of noob writers who discover these forums would be done a disservice by being told to ignore the rules without the proper context.
 
Yep, that's the argument! :)

I guess this makes me the forum Coyote...[1] [2]


--------
[1] Because "forum Loki" is too trendy.

[2] Hail Discordia!
 

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
The 'rules ' were posted for purposes of discussion. I don't believe there are any hard rules of writing, as I noted in that thread and elsewhere. The overreaction by some is amusing. I know writers tend to be an insecure lot, but at some point it gets a little silly.
 

ArielFingolfin

Troubadour
Ha ha. That had me chuckling. And it's too true. There may be something to say for having a few key principles to writing, but all 'rules' should be taken with a grain of salt. In science rules are meant to be followed, in writing they're sometimes meant to be broken :)
 

JCFarnham

Auror
Anyone who has ever said try, experiment and decide for yourself ... I think I may be in love with you.

Not all generalisations can be applied to most people, or something like that ;)
 
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