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Avoiding Racist Implications

Ireth

Myth Weaver
I've discovered an issue with the enemy hordes in my latest project. They're svartalfar, or black elves, from Norse mythology; their enemies are ljosalfar, or light elves, as well as Fae and humans. Much like in Tolkien's books, the light elves are fair-skinned and beautiful, while the black elves, analogous to orcs, are black-skinned and misshapen. The primary villain is (tentatively, somehow) half light elf and half black elf (I guess that'd make her a grey elf?), and her right-hand man is also her half-brother, a light elf bound under oath to serve her.

I don't have as much of a problem with my half-breed villain, or her lieutenant being of a race that is probably seen as Always Lawful Good -- it's the hordes of mooks I take issue with. Even Tolkien was uncomfortable with the idea of orcs being Always Chaotic Evil, and I find myself shying away from that with my black elves as well. But the fact remains that they fundamentally oppose the light elves, they're being ordered to kill the people of Faerie and conquer the land, and they're nothing more than sword fodder. What can I do with this?
 

Ireth

Myth Weaver
Does it have to be a difference in skin color? Maybe hair or eye color could work instead.

I'm just going by what the original myths say. I'm sure there are differences in hair and eye color as well, but the biggest one is the skin.
 

glutton

Inkling
Can the heroes just realize that the black elves aren't all necessarily super evil, that they might have families and people they love too, but are just 'enemies'? Maybe show a black elf sacrificing themselves for another at some point.
 

Ireth

Myth Weaver
Can the heroes just realize that the black elves aren't all necessarily super evil, that they might have families and people they love too, but are just 'enemies'? Maybe show a black elf sacrificing themselves for another at some point.

That could work. ^^
 

Devor

Fiery Keeper of the Hat
Moderator
I've really no idea.

But my first thought, hoping to avoid massive rewrites, is to maybe explore the origins of the dark/light split and to highlight some degree of choice causing that divide. As a culture, that would give them agency in their fate, rather than paint them as solid, undiluted villains of chance. Again, I've really no idea if that would be enough for people or not.
 

Ireth

Myth Weaver
I've really no idea.

But my first thought, hoping to avoid massive rewrites, is to maybe explore the origins of the dark/light split and to highlight some degree of choice causing that divide. As a culture, that would give them agency in their fate, rather than paint them as solid, undiluted villains of chance. Again, I've really no idea if that would be enough for people or not.

According to what I've found so far, light elves and black elves are completely different beings from completely different worlds; the divide is really not a choice of allegiance so much as a racial barrier. Light elves come from Alfheimr, and black elves come from Svartalfheimr, two of the Nine Realms in Norse mythology. Black elves are often conflated with dwarves in the myths.
 

Graylorne

Archmage
I think your translation is too literal. Svartalvar are dark elves, not black. I see that 'svart' translated as 'swarthy' and picture them more like coal miners, leathery and stained from working underground, than like black beings.

NB: Besides, there is only one mention of them in the Edda's, so much of their existence in conjecture. It is thought they were originally spirits of the air. (Perhaps divided in day and night?)
 
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Ireth

Myth Weaver
I think your translation is too literal. Svartalvar are dark elves, not black. I see that 'svart' translated as 'swarthy' and picture them more like coal miners, leathery and stained from working underground, than like black beings.

Dark elves are dokkalfar, and I think they're another thing altogether. They're often confused with svartalfar, though.
 

Devor

Fiery Keeper of the Hat
Moderator
Dark elves are dokkalfar, and I think they're another thing altogether. They're often confused with svartalfar, though.

You're following it that closely? When I was researching it, I found that all of those terms were used pretty much interchangeably, or the poets would pretty much pick any two for the context of their story. And there were several claims about what belongs in the set of nine realms or not. I think you've plenty of leeway with what you want to do if you were to explore their origins.
 

Graylorne

Archmage
I've tried to find the same info for my Shardheld books, but its all very murky. Those poets lived hundreds of years later and the truthworthiness of their work is less certain than believed.

My svatalves btw are very pale, smallish, and with pitch black hair.
 

Ireth

Myth Weaver
You're following it that closely? When I was researching it, I found that all of those terms were used pretty much interchangeably, or the poets would pretty much pick any two for the context of their story. And there were several claims about what belongs in the set of nine realms or not. I think you've plenty of leeway with what you want to do if you were to explore their origins.

Well, at this point I'm still trying to figure out exactly what I want to do as far as enemy races go. As I've mentioned in other threads, this is an adaptation of a LOTR crossover RP, and I decided to go back to the very roots Tolkien took inspiration from for his books, while avoiding some things that Tolkien really codified, like orcs. Although, as I said above, my svartalfar serve much the same purpose anyway.
 

Ireth

Myth Weaver
I've tried to find the same info for my Shardheld books, but its all very murky. Those poets lived hundreds of years later and the truthworthiness of their work is less certain than believed.

My svatalves btw are very pale, smallish, and with pitch black hair.

Your ideas make sense. I can see the camouflage purposes of dark skin for an underground race, but logically it seems like they'd be more bleached-out and pale instead. ^^
 

Graylorne

Archmage
Alberich-Andrew-Shore-Dorst545.jpg


I had to think of Alberich, the smith in Wagners Rheingold. Then you get something like this
 

Nihal

Vala
Heh. I've also got an elf-like race that dwells underground. I've made them pale too, and kinda hairless compared to their cousins. They're "crooked", bestial from a human point-of-view and might be blind as well. You know, the typical modern underground-beasts features.

Now, my elves (elven ancestors, actually) aren't all fair-skinned. Their skin color has the common wood tones, cinnamon and darker colors being regarded as more beautiful. They're rarely blond, the lighter hair colors being ivory-tinted instead. Well, I almost inverted the typical elves characteristics between those two sub-races, and I think it's ok if it works for your world. Myths aren't sacred, they're sources of inspiration. It's ok to change them if necessary.
 
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Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but outside Tolkien, weren't the "llight" elves brown-skinned blondes? (See: The Moorchild, Tithe, etc.)
 

Ireth

Myth Weaver
Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but outside Tolkien, weren't the "llight" elves brown-skinned blondes? (See: The Moorchild, Tithe, etc.)

I haven't read The Moorchild in quite some time, and I've never read Tithe, so I'm not too sure.
 
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