Writing the Ideal...Rogue

[Philip Overby]

Since I got a lot of good responses from the last discussion I posted "Writing the Ideal...Magic-User" I decided I'll keep posting these for now. It's good to get insight into what others here think about different character types often used in fantasy. I think this is a helpful exercise/discussion for me anyway.

When dealing with a "rogue" character, I imagine someone he doesn't use brute force, but uses cunning and stealth to deal with various situations. They can be thieves, assassins, cat burglars, lockpicks, or any other type of character that requires quickness, perception, and agility over strength.

My ideal rogue:

1. I like rogue characters that aren't necessarily skulking, mysterious types, but more charmers and sneaks. I'm actually quite fond of any kind of character that goes on adventurers to tombs, catacombs, and ruins to find wealth and glory. If I were to write about rogues, I like them to be clever, but not too clever. A rogue with faults can make an interesting character for me.

2. For me, and many others I'm sure, Bilbo Baggins is the ideal rogue. He's not very strong, but he makes up for it in his ability to infiltrate, sneak, and outwit opponents. He's a class underdog as well and the prototypical "unexpected hero." I always loved Locke from Final Fantasy VI as well. He was a thief (TREASURE HUNTER!) with a heart of gold and an excellent character overall. Arya from ASOIAF is also one of my favorite character ever. Her evolution is remarkable to watch.

3. I think I have several stories with rogue-like characters as the protagonists. They can carry stories well because they're not only relying on magic or their sword to solve all their problems. They're thinking characters that have to figure out the best way out of any situation.

So what are your thoughts?

1. How would you write your ideal rogue character?

2. What writer/writers do you think have done the rogue character well?

3. Would you make a rogue character a main character in your story/novel? Why or why not?

 

[Feo Takahari]

The rogue covers three different aspects, and it's important to recognize that they don't have to overlap:

1): The master of stealth, unnoticed and untraceable.

2): The diplomancer, able to wheedle, bluff, and cajole out of almost any situation.

3): The technical "good guy" who's significantly less honest and honorable than the rest of the "good guys."

To give one example, Assassin's Creed makes use of 1), and sometimes 2), but pretty much discards 3)--the Assassins are basically heroic figures who happen to operate in the shadows. On the other hand, Marvin the Paranoid Android can be modeled as 3) with a bit of 2), manipulating his enemies into accidentally or even intentionally killing themselves.

I tend to go for either 1) or 2), often not both at the same time.

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

I don't write a lot of rogues but I do game them and my preference is for the sneaky type. They fight only when they have to and then they attack from behind and strike from the shadows. Assassin type attacks. And if possible I like them to have a few magical artefacts etc, mostly to help them sneak even better. I like them to be clever too - survive on their wits etc. But not chalmers. I find the whole idea of the chalming rogue something of a hollywood myth. To me a rogue is always in hiding even when he's out in the open, and he doesn't want to draw attention to himself. Not even positive attention.

Cheers, Greg.

 

[Telcontar]

I think you've left out (or only obliquely addressed) perhaps the most important part of the rogues' archetype: distaste for authority and established rules.

After all, as you included assassins in your list - and because the modern idea of a fantasy assassin has become a near-unstoppable badass whose cloak-and-dagger fighting regularly bests armor-and-sword - I don't think we can really say that the modern rogue doesn't use brute force. Sure, they may use it with more style, but it's still pretty brutish.

Charm I would definitely count as one of their chief tools - or at least charisma. Even the mysterious assassin figure, while not directly charming, has a certain amount of magnetism to them.

 

[Spider]

I think you've left out (or only obliquely addressed) perhaps the most important part of the rogues' archetype: distaste for authority and established rules.

This is my favorite part about rogues-- They are well aware of the rules and the consequences of breaking those rules, yet they break them anyways. IMO this is what makes them so fun to write about (plus I think there's more opportunity for conflict). It's more interesting than following a character who never bends the rules and is within the boundaries.

 

[SeverinR]

I think there is room for the con-man, then the cliche breaking rogue, that is alittle more non-traditional ability. Maybe stronger then normal? (The fighter-thief of AD&D), maybe a rogue trickster? While learning magic the rogue used their abilities to survive or pay the cost of the education.

In contrast to PSycotic's secretive rogue, the Con-man would be the center of attention at least to his mark(s), while never showing who they really are, just a character for the con they are running, and probably a back up in case they are caught in the lie, maybe even a secondary backup. Always a contingency for the contingency, never let them nail you down.

Of course, the higher up the guild you go, the less a rogue worries about being discovered. They simply admit to being a businessman(simple owner of a brothel, or casino, while actually leading the guild of thieves for a large area.)

 

[Saigonnus]

1. I would approach it as a combination of fighting skill as well as a sense of sneakiness; but might go a bit light on the whole breaking into people's houses/businesses. I am presently playing around with a rogue for a potential RP. I hate stereotypes, so made him just as strong as a warrior and with the abilities of sword fighting, he is a bounty hunter beyond being a thief (he does it only to suppliment his living)

2. Not the greatest by any stretch, but Luthien from "the Crimson Cloak" by R.A. Salvatore was pretty good, as was his halfling amigo Oliver (likewise a rogue, but a swashbuckling type). I prefer Oliver, since he's a more vulnerable and believable character in the scheme of things.

3. Of course I would have one as A main character. Whether or not he's the protagonist is another story. I have used plenty of assassins, pickpockets and swashbuckling bards to be familiar with most of the archetypes present in fantasy literature and gaming.

 

[Devor]

To me, there's nothing worse than the rogue who isn't. The dashing, suave, debonair rogue who comes across stale and dry on the page. The stealth ninja who doesn't seem to know a thing about pathfinding. The undercover spy who is everywhere unobserved but has no undercover reason to be anywhere. The ideal rogue needs to show some actual skill or I'm shutting the book.

 

[Ophiucha]

Well, I like my rogues to be a bit more morally ambiguous. Taking from the rich and giving it back to the poor is... honestly not even in the 'grey' on a scale of black and white morality. To me, that's just white with a disregard for the rules. Which is fine for many a story, but if we're going to do a rogue, I'd like to do a rogue a little darker. Not necessarily evil, but perhaps a little more selfish. Steal from the rich, keep it for himself. Or maybe steal from the middle class, if the fantasy's society even has one. Something like the Baccano! series does this well, since all of the protagonists are - at best - simple thieves (and at worst, murderers and mafiosi). They are likeable, and have a moral code, but even the comic relief bumbling thief protagonists are willing to run someone over with their car (well, the car they'd just stolen, anyway).

In terms of the more murderous side of rogues, I prefer honest ones. A lot of the assassin/killer protagonist types have moral codes about only killing the bad guys, or the opposite faction. And within twenty pages that extends summarily to "also anybody who happens to be in the way of me killing the bad guy", and maybe eventually just "also not giving me a free room at your hotel counts as obstruction of my ability to kill the bad guy". It gets kind of ridiculous. Consistency, or at least some time dedicated to the character's ethical quandary if he has to do something outside of his usual brand of amorality.



Breaking away from that, I'd say I much prefer the gentleman thief/catwoman-y sorts of rogues. The ones who play with the cops and exchange witty banter - while not particularly realistic - do just make better protagonists. So I love them. I would say my favourite 'classes' of rogue are tomb raider, art thieves, and con-men. Con-men are the best at wit, tomb raiders can - I think - bring up the most interesting ethical questions, and art thieves just tend to be the real charmers. While I like the stories surrounding many of the assassin-type characters and other forms of murderer, I very rarely find them morally ambiguous enough to be interesting. (There are a handful of exceptions, but usually they are basically just evil guys who work for the forces of good.) And I like the intricacies of the actual job when it comes to the art thief, where the treasure itself is something of interest, rather than just the ones who steal some cash and get out of dodge. Art thieves have to take care of the treasure or it looses all value.

I don't think I have ever written a particularly traditional rogue character... maybe my current protagonist could count, since she's an assassin (though this is her first and only 'job'), but it's a stretch. Nothing against them, but they don't tend to fit into the sorts of stories I write.

 

[ThinkerX]

I'm a bit too overly honest to appreciate rogues. In part, this stems from association with real world 'rogues'. (I worked at a place where the bottom level element would come calling. Plus some 'friends of friends' were always swiping stuff.) So when I'd read about fictional rogues, I couldn't help but compare them with the thievish miscreants I knew back then. Most of the real world roguish sorts I knew were not very bright and not much joy to be around. They were also highly untrustworthy.

That said, I have included a few rogue types in my writing as significant characters. However, its always a secondary trait:

'Safi', from 'World Tale', 'Madness', and 'Labyrinth' was a street thief in a slum city before joining the Amazoni Legion. Her thievish past is something she tries to forget.

'Horace', from 'Labyrinth', was a burglar who was given a choice between the gallows and the legions. His Tribune found Horaces talents so useful he retained him as a servant afterwards.

'Toki' grew up as a quasi outcast on a huge estate ran by a tyranical Boyar or aristocrat. He learned how to filch things along with his chores, and kept right on filching things upon becoming a mage. He's a bit of an impulse thief, take without thinking, which causes interesting situations (and annoys his partner Hock-Nar to no end).

 

[Saigonnus]

I'd like to do a rogue a little darker. Not necessarily evil, but perhaps a little more selfish. Steal from the rich, keep it for himself. Or maybe steal from the middle class, if the fantasy's society even has one. Something like the Baccano! series does this well, since all of the protagonists are - at best - simple thieves (and at worst, murderers and mafiosi).

The rogue I have been working on steals from those who have enough (middle class mostly) and is often very selfish. He grew up an orphan, so didn't have anything as a child, so now that he is an adult, figures he deserves the best life he can manage; even at the expense of others.

 

[Trick]

I only like rogues that I'd be friends with even if I disagree with them and their methods... if that makes any sense.

My main character is a thief who is forced into being an assassin. He started stealing to survive and then kept right on doing it to the point of reckless endangerment because he develops a kind of kleptomania. Even after a stint in a harsh prison he returns to thieving as a matter of course and hates himself for it. I suppose he's a rogue because he's cocky and eventually learns to be charming as well and his fighting skills are minimal (at first) while his sneaking talents are outstanding.

Like any character, the category shouldn't matter as much as fleshing out the personality in a reasonable way.

 

[Queshire]

I've been reading a lot of One Piece lately and my ideal rogue is along the lines of Sanji, even more than Nami who's known for her thieving skills. To me being a rogue isn't a matter of how strong a fighter you are, but what you do, Sanji infilitrates Rainbase as Mr. Prince in the Alabastar arc and he disables the warships coming after the straw hats in the CP9 arc.

Basically, to me the ideal rogue is someone able and willing to go off their own, splitting off from the main party to complete the type of sneaky actions which could very well be neccesary for the party's success, even if it might mean seemingly betraying the party.