# Firm Foundation of Magic



## Addison (Jul 20, 2012)

Hi! I'm new to the site and know I'll enjoy it here. 

    In my novel I have races, government, economics and magic. The magic is where I have shaky footing. I've read Steven Harper's "Writing the Paranormal Novel" in which he laid down the guidelines for a realistic system of magic; the limits, finding a source of magic etc. If you haven't read this book these are all known limits of magic;

Exhaustion: The use of magic drains the caster's engery. They become sleepy, hungry or both. If they continue using magic beyond their limit/level they can fall into a coma or die.

Yikes!: Use of magic (all or certain types) is only triggered by certain emotions which must be controlled or they could teleport to the North Pole or set the gym on fire. 

Only when...: character's magic is only used under certain circumstances. Full moon, at night, when wet, when full, starving, covered in blood etc. If none of these conditions are present then the magic can't be used.

Three Times: A.k.a the genie factor. A magic or spell can only be used three times within a certain time. Caster has time to recharge, or doesn't. Magic might instead have an alloted magic. When used up he/she must recharge or barter more from the Source.

You can't: A character's magic can not be used, by vow or power itself, for battle, or certain circumstances. Breaking this results in serious consequence. 

Power Corrupts: As implies, the more magic used the more the caster is corrupted. How corrupted depends on Source.

Pay the Piper: Casting magic requires a price. Youth, blood, killing something, or something different like cupcakes, dresses, or corn husk dolls, or even services.

Recipe Required: Spells can't be cast with a wave of the wand or uttereance of a ridiculous word or silly rhyme. They must be made ahead of time following exact direction, non-substitued ingredients and preciely enunciated words. 

How Touching: In order for caster to cast spell on target he/she must touch him/her. Either a simple tap, a number of seconds or continued contact until spell completly cast.

GET OUT OF MY HEAD!: generally for mental powers but basically these powers are always on to some extent or switch on unexpectedly which annoys and harms self and others. 

Blocked: This one is complicated to sum down. Quoting from the book it goes, "Every power has its opposite. Every strength has its weakness. Your main character has developed a long range telepathic link with ehr boyfriend? Big deal. your antagonist has a way to block it, or temporarily sever teh link, or better still, has found a way to use the protagonist's new telepathy as a two-way street, attacking her through the linka nd bludgeoning her into unconsciousness. And that new insta-healing power? Turns out if you use it too often, it causes unexpected mutations. We can restore that severed arm, but it might turn ou to be a little ubbery, with suckers on. So heal carefully." Summarized as well as I can it's sort of like Exhaustion only instead of taxing the caster it taxes the magic itself. And/or the caster must be aware and find a loop hole around their magic's loop hole.

You want it when?: In this case the magic has a mind of its own. It works only when it wants to despite the caster yelling, asking, begging for it to turn on or the opposite. Sort of like a two-year old who won't take a bath or won't stop jumping on the bed. (Red flag to authors, this magic should be used sparringly since it's an author dodge. They can turn it on or off whenever it's convenient for them and/or the character)

     I'm applying these limits to my characters, especially by race. But with magic I've added these touches to my magic system: As no two people are completely alike neither is two people's magic. If you're part fairy your magic leans toward this, if part elf it leans toward that. If you're part elf and fairy you're either both or it mixes into something strange. Humans who have no hybrid blood are different. They each have a unique spark. One that burns brightest in certain areas and shoots in with different tools. In most traditional cases the tools for magic have either been; a wand, stave, incantion/chant or hands. Or it could be familiars. It could be something unique to the person. Perhaps the mysterious force named Magic has chosen for the character's chi-stress ball. Or because they use it so much they've involuntarily made it their tool. Certain races have certain tools. (The wand and Stave are called Universal tools as any magic caster can use them.)

After reading this and staying awake (congrats if you did  ) does this sound solid enough or is it flaky? Confusing? 

Thankyou!


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## Saigonnus (Jul 20, 2012)

Not confusing, but I think some of these don't really work well together and if you come up with a system of magic; pick and choose carefully depending on what you want to accomplish within the story. I think their needs to be a balance; power vs. drawback in order to have them be somewhat realistic. Sure; you COULD have an all-powerful mage without limit and without anything to offset that vast power; but that would make them less magelike and more godlike, probably not something you want to do. 

I assume with how you described the realm of your magic; fairy vs. elf vs. human, you have "schools or disciplines" of thought carefully planned out as a means of differentiating what types of magic each race has access to. I think this works well if they are somewhat balanced in the "level" of power each race employs.


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## Lorna (Jul 20, 2012)

You're using all of these?... 

I'd be more interested to hear how you are grounding these rules:
1) What is the the nature of your source? 
2) Have you thought through the reason for each rule? (ie. Why can a spell only be cast 3 times? Why do your spell casters suffer from exhaustion?)

Thinking these questions through in relation to your world will make your system of magic more unique.


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## Addison (Jul 20, 2012)

Thank you for the replies guys. 

Mystagogue: I figured that the limit is determined greatly by the power and/or the source. And yes there is a strict "Schools/disciplines" depending on race. Elves are more nature-magic and fairies are different (Some are material like Tinkerbell and her friends with water, light and such. Others are ethereal, dreams/nightmares, visions, luck etc)

Lore Master: "What is the nature of your source?" If you mean source as in where I got this information it is "Writing the Paranormal Novel" by Steven Harper. If you mean in the magic world and source of magic it depends on the caster. The source of Elves' magic is internal, it's their communion with nature. Fairies is....hard to explain. It follows the 'first baby laugh' concept. An ethereal ingredient in the time, place and such of the laugh sets the ingredients/powers of the fairy. As to your example of "why can a spell only be cast 3 times?" it could do with the Source of the power. The Source, human or creature, has set the rules and alloted magic. It mostly depends on the source. Sources are one of three: internal, external, spiritual. 

So does this sound like a firm, clear foundation of magic?


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## ThinkerX (Jul 20, 2012)

Hmmm...I'll have to judge these in context with my own system.



> Exhaustion: The use of magic drains the caster's engery. They become sleepy, hungry or both. If they continue using magic beyond their limit/level they can fall into a coma or die.



No problem.  I use this one.


> Yikes!: Use of magic (all or certain types) is only triggered by certain emotions which must be controlled or they could teleport to the North Pole or set the gym on fire.



Very very rare.  Almost always means the caster is either untrained or insane.



> Only when...: character's magic is only used under certain circumstances. Full moon, at night, when wet, when full, starving, covered in blood etc. If none of these conditions are present then the magic can't be used.



Hmmm...very rare.  Pertains mostly to pacts with demons, fey and the like even then.



> Three Times: A.k.a the genie factor. A magic or spell can only be used three times within a certain time. Caster has time to recharge, or doesn't. Magic might instead have an alloted magic. When used up he/she must recharge or barter more from the Source.



Some of my wizards have 'contracts' with demons, fey, ect which they get to invoke only a limited number of times.



> You can't: A character's magic can not be used, by vow or power itself, for battle, or certain circumstances. Breaking this results in serious consequence.



Yes, I have something like that.



> Power Corrupts: As implies, the more magic used the more the caster is corrupted. How corrupted depends on Source.



For wizards with contracts with demons, fey, ect, yes, their alignment/outlook does tend to line up with said entity over time.



> Pay the Piper: Casting magic requires a price. Youth, blood, killing something, or something different like cupcakes, dresses, or corn husk dolls, or even services.


 Many spells in my system require what used to be termed a 'material component'.  Entities such as demons, fey, ect, will often require blood or a death as part of their contract.


> Recipe Required: Spells can't be cast with a wave of the wand or uttereance of a ridiculous word or silly rhyme. They must be made ahead of time following exact direction, non-substitued ingredients and preciely enunciated words.



Except where contracts with demons, fey, ect are concerned, magic in my system is mostly a exercise of mental power.  You learn a spell, have the components on hand if such are needed, you can cast it.



> How Touching: In order for caster to cast spell on target he/she must touch him/her. Either a simple tap, a number of seconds or continued contact until spell completly cast.



With some spells - such as healing magics - yes.  Not as a general rule, though.



> GET OUT OF MY HEAD!: generally for mental powers but basically these powers are always on to some extent or switch on unexpectedly which annoys and harms self and others.



In a way.  This comes about with characters who are either untrained or insane.


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## Addison (Jul 20, 2012)

There is another limit called Blocked. It's sort of like exhaustion only instead of taxing the caster it taxes the magic itself. Like....if you've read the Marvel Comic Runaways then think of Nico. The first time she cast FReeze the parents were frozen. The next time she tried she sent a flog of pelicans or such at the robbers. Imagine that, instead of the same spell one time thing, that the more Nico used the freeze spell in an amount of time without recharging the more it either taxed itself (ice cream instead of ice) or the magic sort of ricochetes on the caster. Changing hair color, one arm slowly turns into a tentacle etc. 

Now that all the limits and such are explained here is the question needing answered: Is this system of magic solid and clear? No gaps for confusion or being tilted?


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## Queshire (Jul 21, 2012)

Well...... I don't really see how it IS a system of magic. Basically you've just told us various ways the magic gets limited, and you've told us that each person's magic is different, but we have no clue about how powerful the magic is, what it can do, where it comes from, how common/rare the magic is, how you learn magic if you have to learn it in the first place, etc and so on. What stops magic from being a deus ex machina is important, but it's just one piece of the whole system.


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## Addison (Jul 21, 2012)

Sources of Magic in this world.( Part 1)
Gods: Gods can grant power to their children or most faithful. Most of these persons are called Priests or Priestesses.Those who's powers are from Gods have a set of rules to follow and breaking such rules result in dire consequences. Some powers are on to an extent all the time. What culture and God defines what magic the person casts.

Demons: The limits of this Source's magic is more than often 'Pay the Piper' with a not-so-pretty charge. Other times it's 'Blocked', 'How Touching', and 'Power Corrupts'. Usually the ones who have demonic powers are demons. Human's acquire these powers by one of three ways: 1. initiation into the demon's clan. (like in the eighties when kids would prick their fingers or cut their hands and put their wounds together. 2. Making a Contract. 3. The least common, more common in old days, is being cursed. Some people aren't aware of the curse until they come of magical age and as the curse has a guideline (males only, third daughter etc). 

Spawns: Similar to Demons only these are lower on the Underworld Food Chain. Spawns include, but are not limited to, goblins, gremlins, and imps. While their powers can be similar to demons they also differ. Having powers of Spawns is either by blood (Half-human half-imp), initiation, contract, or curse. Spawns can grant powers of potions/alchemy and wand magic which demons can not.

Spirits: Most casters whom have Spirit-Sources are called Shamans or Gypsies. There are a rare few who are neither. They get their power from the ethereal power of ghosts and other Nether pests. These type of casters get their powers from their natural connection to the ghost plane or a near-death experience. Shamans and Gypsies are more than often born from a long line of Shamans or Gypsies. 

Fairies: Fairy Source magic is much like Demon Sources. Three ways to acquire the powers. Unlike Demons the powers granted from Fairies isn't always material (potions, spell writing etc) It can be ethereal. A caster may have the powers of a Sandman fairy, or a tooth fairy. With powers of a certain type of fairy the user must follow the rules and laws of the designated Fairy and can only do the same magic their fairy can. Very VERY rarely does a human get to Contract with the Royal Fairies and hence all powers or have a Contract allowing him or her power from the Ether Pool. The source of all fairy magic. 

Fey: Creatures who are in the Fey category but are not fairies. These include Brownies, Leprechauns, Kobolds and other ethereal creatures without wings. (There are some types of elves like Santa Elves, Pastry Elves, but Fey does not include the forest dwelling expert archer Elves. This will be discussed later) As with Fairies the Caster must follow the rules, has the same powers as the Contractor. 

Stars: Have you ever looked up into the night sky and seen that one star that shines brighter than all the others? That is your star. It can be a Caster's Source. Extensive research must be made to know everything about the star so they can learn what exactly their powers are. Those who do not have their own star but have a Star Source often get it from a certain star or an entire constellation. To get this Source one of two things must be done. One is a deep sleep for the caster to find the spirit of the constellation and ask permission, then sign a contract. Two is actually go to the star and Initiate. How do you initiate with a star? It's a complex system. Instead of slicing your hand and giving it blood you're sort of....diving into it. You are getting to know the star as it gets to know you. If it wants to give you power it will. If not then it doesn't. 

Planets:Most planet's powers come from the God or Godess it derives its name from. Some planets have internal magical power which sort of lasers down to the Caster. If someone who wants or has a Planet Source gets the powers from the Derivation method they much go to the culture best connected or wanted and undergo a deep sleep to talk to the God or Goddess for a contract. Those with the Laser-down method are born with this connection. The few times it's sought it requires a visit and drinking a complex potion made by material on the planet. 

Elements: You know that series W.I.T.C.H? That's sort of how this works. There are Fire-mages, water-mages, earth-mages, wind-mages etc. There are mages connected to different branches of the elements (ice, greenery, steel, heat etc) Which element grants a small amount of other powers. Divination, Conjuration etc, the element determines the magic. This source is almost always born-with. Very rarely will High-Mages of elements grant powers to others or will humans suddenly acquire powers. The latter having the only reason of a prophecy or destiny. 

Elementals: Greatly different from Elements. This is a rare source as Elementals are reclusive, sometimes ill-tempered or some sort of emotional. An elemental is basically a living body of an element. Rarer still is an Elemental of a place, Swamp-elemental etc. Contracts with Place-Elementals are the worst thing someone can do. The elemental's life is often short as it was created by some outside source and either dies on its own or is sought and destroyed. When it dies the powers granted are lost. 

Places: The world is a great big truffle of magic energy and some people can tap into it. However these people can only tap into this energy as certain Places. Mountain. Forest. Desert. Plains. Other places are more specific. Parks, flower beds, hearth, etc. If these people are not standing on or within channeling rang of these places they can't cast magic. 

Ley-lines: As I said the world is a truffle of magical energy. Any candy lover knows that truffles more than often have sprinkles or white icing laced on top. Ley-lines are those laces of icing on top. Some call them Highways of magic. Carrying magic around the world and/or between worlds. Those who have Ley Lines as a Source can see and sense these. It is impossible to channel Ley-line energy as it is in a tube. Just like you can't fill your cup with water by putting it under a leak-free pipe. If the caster isn't at least touching the ley line they have no magic. This Source, when present, is often born in or because the caster is the race or half-blood of a race which can see them. (Fairies, Fey, Spawns, Demons and Gods)


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## Addison (Jul 21, 2012)

Sources of Magic in this world (part 2)
Inner True Magic: The most common Source. Those with Inner True Magic fall under specific classes, all of which can do Universal Magic to a degree. (Universal Magic: The Magical Practice of using wands, staves, potions, runes/magical circles, rituals, incantations and spell writing.) Persons with this Source can be categorized into three categories. 1. Mages, these caster's powers fall under certain categories. There are Stone Mages, Bird-Mages, Baking Mages, or even Chocolate-Mages, Fabric Mages, Gear-Mages. 2. Classics. These person's have magic which puts them into one of the classic/well-known/long practiced magic professions. Wizard, Witch, Wicca, Alchemist, Seer, Oracle, Hag, (creature)-Slayer/Hunter, Medicine Man, Shaman, Cleric, Druid etc. Those in this category are more than not born from a long line. Common still is these Casters are taught by their family, a Master Wizard or whichever they are, or go with all other kids to a school. 3. Unique. These Casters have magic unique to them. Often times their Unique Magic ties into what they can and can't do as a magic profession. Some will have the magic and personality to be a great Nether-extractor (like a ghostbuster only magic) others to be architects. Most persons of this category can fit into one of the two above categories but they have an extra spark which makes it different. For instance. Margaret is a chocolate-mage. She can mix and conjure anything chocolate with a twitch of her nose. Gina can also do that but, as she's Unique, she can easily make those teddy-bear shaped coco-cookies dance, play and cannonball into the milk. All without any extra ingredient or tool. 

Familiars: Familiars are mostly advisors, referees and helpers for witches, wizards and wiccas as witnessed in the late sixteen hundreds. But some can actually be a source of magic. Imagine that Salem wasn't just an annoying, conniving black cat contatnly in Sabrina's way. He was also the Source of her magic. He determined what powers she had by the mysterious force which made him a Source. He determined the rules she followed, when she had the powers, how often she could use them etc. Familiars, as Source or Advisor, can be just about anything but there are ten most common familiars: cat, dog, toad/frog, rat, owl, raven/crow, turtle, rabbit, bat, lizard/snake. 

Objects: In the medieval days, and for a time during the Witch Trials, it was thought that if you took the accused's wand you took their power. While it proved untrue back then doesn't mean it isn't possible now. It's not likely that you can use these magic objects without having some magic power yourself. But if you don't have this object with you then you don't have the magic. Sort of like a water hose with a sprayer. Your magic is the water pump and all those gallons stuck in the hose. If you don't have your object then the sprayer stays off and you can't turn your annoying brother into a snail. These tools are more commonly: Wand (either full-fledge wand or a specific stick of specific wood), stave (same as with wand), rod, scepter, chant (it does count, if you're gagged or strangled you can't use your magic), hands, tatoos (rare), jewelry, elements (different from fire-mages and the like), crystals, tarot or playing cards, weapons, spell books, spell scrolls, potions or powders. Very rarely does one of an Object Source have something outside of the box. One man had a lucky-rabbit's foot as his object, a young woman had stress chi-balls as her Object. When a Caster of this Source reaches a certain level they don't have to worry about being away from their object if it's not their voice or hands as they will be intune with this object and can call it at any time. These Casters are often middle-aged.

Masters/Persons: This is where Elves come into play. If someone wanted to have Elven powers they would go to an elf clan or neighborhood and look for someone with whom they can make an equal contract. (Please note that not anyone can get a magical contract. A rigorous test is involved.) Contracts are more for people who have an ability but are not classified as Inner True Magics. They are observed and tested to better determine their powers and what type of person, race or creature would be best to Contract with in order for the Caster to better harness their power. Elves are often sought by those who have been observed with animal-skills, a green thumb or at home in nature. Other races such as Dwarves, Dragons are sought. Other times persons without actual magic ability but a magical connection are sought such as werewolves, vampires and such. The Contractor doesn't have to be a Caster themselves. Such people who have the ability to be a contractor are kept on file. (To be a Contractor one must have a higher than average knowledge of magic, have some physical prowess in case the Caster's magic must be bound which takes physical force.) Those who are magical and Contractors always make Contracts with those who's powers resemble their own. The contract becomes a sort of tree. If a Contractor is killed then the Contractee has a small window of opportunity to get the Contract re-signed. Often times if a Contractor believes the Contractee will never deviate from the Contract he or she has it notarized by each member of the Council, or a Master in certain magics (depends on the magic being contracted) so the Contract will be immortalized. 

The cost of magic varies, both by Source and Self. As listed there is: Exhaustion, Yikes, Only When..., Three Times, You Can't..., Power Corrupts, Pay the Piper, Recipe Required, How Touching, GET OUTTA MY HEAD!, Blocked-taxed, and You Want it When. The Source is more than often what makes the limit. Sometimes Inner True Magic can be one, or more, of the limits. Inner True Magic Sources often have the limits of: Exhaution, Yikes, Only When, Recipe Required, How Touching, GET OUTTA MY HEAD!, and Blocked-taxed. 

Percentage of magic is human population has gone up since the Witch Trials. Although it seems to fluctuate every two generations or so. Some believe it's because the mysterious Source of All Magic keeps everything balanced. It gives times when Magic and Mortal is in harmony, perfectly balanced. Other times it allows certain magics or Sources to rise, to know full knowledge, and then there are times where Mortal is greater for mortals to experience life, careers without as much magic surrounding them.

Difficulty in learning the magic, on a scale of one to ten, is often a seven. Sometimes it's more or less depending the chemistry between Self and Source. As the chemistry gets better so does the difficulty of learning. Imagine if you were a peace-loving person who volunteered at the homeless shelter in all your spare time and found out that the only Contract to suit your growing abilities was a demon. Would you take it with ease? I highly doubt it. Your brain won't accept it, you're not emotionally open to the idea so it'll be a pain in the butt to learn the magic. 

There is no ALL POWERFUL magic, aside from the mysterious force called Fate and the unknown Source of All Magic. No race is completely superior to all races. Elves arent' the best at hand to hand combat like demons and were-wolves but they're the best archers in all the worlds. (That wasn't a mistype, there's more than one world) 

I'm not sure what you mean by Deus Ex Machina besides it being a solution to all problems. As magic and mortal live side by side there are laws which are enforced by a moon-sized fist of folded steel. Just as the mortals can not seek magic to solve all their problems, Casters can not use their magic in a mortal event to get first place or such or anything which would cheat a fair game. 

Onto something else I don't believe I touched on. Obviously if you have pixie blood you have a better chance of having magic. But let's say you're a demon. Your horns have started growing, your skin is getting a second color and you're just starting to make puffs of fire. Well it doesn't mean you go to H#%% High and learn proper fire ball technique. All worlds and races have a system of law, ethics, religion and magic. Obviously these systems vary by race. For a demon he or she would have to find and Upper Demon of their breed or clan and make a pledge. Upon graduating this upper demon would be writing letters of reccommendation, sending the demon on errands etc. 

I hope this helped. Let me know what you guys think about it. Oh! There are 14 main Disciplines/Schools of Magic: Transmutations, Alchemy/Potions, Spell Writng/Spell Science, Conjuration, Divination, Invocation, Evocation, Illusion, Necromancy, Abjuration, Universal Magic, Enchantments, Mythical Creatures, Nature-Speak.


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## Lorna (Jul 21, 2012)

Ok three sources: internal, external, spiritual. How do you define them? These are my guesses, showing your terms could be widely interpreted and will need clear definitions. 

Internal - From where within? Energy? Soul? Mind? 
External - Nature, elements? 
Spiritual - 'Spirit' is such a vague concept. Do you mean the world spirit? Spirits of the dead? Spirits of nature? 



> The source of Elves' magic is internal, it's their communion with nature.



Sorry, you've contradicted yourself. If the magic of elves is internal how can it be their communion with nature? (external) Even if its a telepathic connection they're still connecting with something outside not within. 



> Fairies is....hard to explain. It follows the 'first baby laugh' concept. An ethereal ingredient in the time, place and such of the laugh sets the ingredients/powers of the fairy.



I couldn't make any sense of this. 



> As to your example of "why can a spell only be cast 3 times?" it could do with the Source of the power. The Source, human or creature, has set the rules and alloted magic. It mostly depends on the source.



It could do with the source of the power? Either it does or doesn't. 

You say here your sources can be humans or creatures. This conflicts with your other more abstract definition: internal, external, spiritual. So a person and a creature can be sources (say a human and a unicorn). And they impose upon themselves the 3 X rule. Why would they do that? Apologies, I'm still not understanding how this works. 

If you are going to create a firm foundation for your system of magic I think you need to strip the above down to the basic rules. 

For example, this is my system of elemental magic:

The Source = the Chimera (world soul)

The Chimera has four elemental hearts (air / fire / water / earth)

The elements flow from the hearts into the world and return in a double beat. The places the elements flow form smaller 'sources' guarded by elementals. ie. in the fire realm the heart is guarded by dragons, the larger volcanoes by fire giants, the smaller volcanoes by 'volc' and lava pools by imps. 

If people want to learn magic they (should) go to the elementals, train with them and learn their lore. 

Limits: 

1) The power of each 'source' (determined by whether its magic has been drained by magicians or fed with the remains of enemies).

2) The personal limitations of each magician (determined by the strength of their elemental form which is won by training and practice).

Hope this helps.


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## Addison (Jul 21, 2012)

Internal Sources: Will power, energy, strength of mind. (Like someone with telekinesis can't move a boulder by a strong heart they have to have exercised their mind.)  Will power is just the effort and 'not giving up' attitude. Energy, if you're tired and fighting a dragon you're toast. If you've downed a liter of pepsi and are fighting a dragon then the dragon's toast. 

External Sources: These can be Races or Creatures or the Masters of which the Caster is an apprentice. When it comes to races like vampires, werewolves, elves, demons.....okay all races, it's like the Avatars of Charmed. If something happens to one of them, injury or death, they all feel it. Each member adds to a collective power from which they all siphon from when they use magic.  With creatures it's not so "BAM! What happened?!" If something happens to the creature. Let's say, using your example, the unicorn was the Source. And let's say the Unicorn's home was threatened and it used magic, or went against it's code to preserve itself, or was dying. The person who contracted with that unicorn wouldn't feel it in their gut like a Racial source. They'd feel it in their magic. Like you thought you saw something out the window but it's not there. Almost like your magic itself is telling you. With Master's and persons of human race it's like your bartering magic from mom and dad. You ask if they can sign this paper so you can get your magic in check and do whatever. They say yes and then set the rules, "You can't use a cleaning charm on your messy room. You can't turn your sister into a pig." And they set a time limit. (Usually with these sources or any involving a Contract it either ends at 18 because by then the person knows how to use and control their power. Other times the Contract must be somehow immortalized.) As I said Person Sources are like parents and kids. If the kid does something against the parent's rules or magic rules or whichever then the parent may suspend the use of magic or bind it completely until a trial. 

Spiritual. As you said it's not easily defined. Think of it as Animism meets an Afterlife meets Totems. Sounds confusing I know. But Shamans use these spirits in their magic and work. They commune with the spirit of the mountain, the ancestors etc. This source is for those of a strong cultural or religious background. The caster could get their power from their family bear totem. Or they could leech power from the spirits of their ancestors. If the Caster does something opposite or against the bear totem he loses his power. If the caster offends the family or the memory of an ancestor they could lose that ancestor, and hence power, or all power completely.

The Elves description just wasn't clear enough. Elves are spiritual people. They can take a beating as well as the next guy and get up to fight again. But if their spirit is hurt it's not as easy. Their people band together in a Spiritual gathering to lend the strength of their spirits to the injured elf. So it's not so much as a mind-nature communion as it is a spirit to spirit communion. So it is internal but mostly spiritual. 

Fairies, as I said hard to explain. I hope you've seen the first Tinkerbell movie. That baby laughed and it was caught in that flower seed which floated all the way to Pixie Hollow. Something in that flower, that laugh, that night all mixed together to make Tinkerbell. So Astrology is a factor and maybe a bit of the baby which laughed. I'm not saying the laugh of a chubby baby would make a chubby fairy. But a little bit more than the baby's laugh went into making the fairy. 

And the 3 times only part HAS to do with the Source. With Sources prone to peace (unicorns, Harmony (the greek goddess) etc) they could alot 3 times to any part of their magic which could be used for harm and chaos. The same goes Vice Versa. 

I believe I've already touched on the difference between a Human Source and a Creature Source. 

Any other questions or is everything set?


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## Androxine Vortex (Jul 22, 2012)

Well to me it doesn't sound like a magic system but more like a magic list. There's nothing wrong with looking at different forms of magic but I wouldn't say it is necessary to use all of them just because they exist. Don't restrict yourself to what others define magic as either. Who's to stop you from creating your own ways on how magic works? You can come up with some really creative things!

I think that some of these methods contradict each other and that by having such a large amount of varied forms of magic it might make it difficult to stay on top of and manage and the reader might feel flustered. I would suggest that you take a good look at your plot and the world you have created. Analyze how things work there and hen you can develop a solid magic system from there. Well thought through magic systems can have a much better appeal than just throwing everything together.

Take my magic system for example: Magic comes directly from the Gods and can not be used without them. So in order to cast a spell, you must perform an invocation to your patron god and then he/she will bless you with their divinity to cast the spell. So the gods are literally lending their divine powers to mortals. That's my magic system and I'm sticking to it! If you create a unique magic system then it will make your world seem a little bit more fresh and not just like every other fantasy magic system out there. 

I'm sorry, I feel like I can't word my thoughts together very well. I am pretty tired after all! Good luck though and I hope this helps.


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## Addison (Jul 22, 2012)

....It is a list isn't it?   Like I said I'm new to this stuff. Ho-kay! I can do this.....later. I'm tired too. I'll get back to you guys later. So, just for my clarification, when describing a magic system it has three parts, just like a spell. The type of magic, it's intent and it's effect. So describing a magic system you'd have a source.....a Caster.....and the magics they use? I'm tired and I know I have it written down somewhere.

See ya!


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## Lorna (Jul 22, 2012)

> Internal Sources: Will power, energy, strength of mind. (Like someone with telekinesis can't move a boulder by a strong heart they have to have exercised their mind.)



To me will, energy, strength of mind are faculties of a spell caster, not sources. If a mage moves a boulder by telekinesis this cannot be done purely by strength of mind. The mage would have to possess the power of kinesis. The possesion of a power such as telekinesis, psychic abilities etc. could make an individual a source and thus be viewed as internal. 

External: Yes, I understand this. Mages learn magic from other races who create the limits on spells. 

Spiritual: Shamanic magic. (As opposed to theurgy- see Androxine's eg.). Understood. 

I still think you're complicating things. I'd concentrate on honing everything down to a few basic principles. 

Good luck.


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## Addison (Jul 22, 2012)

Okay I can't find where I wrote the Foundations of Writing a Magic Foundation. But let's compare how to write a magic system to how to write a query letter. The basics to of a query letter is to tell the editor or agent the "Who, What, Where, and Why They Should Care," of the book. So what would the basics of describing a magic system be? Obviously the Source of the magic, how it's dispersed and who uses and how. Anything else or am I good?


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## Amanita (Jul 23, 2012)

Hello Addison,

I have to admit that your approach to the issue of creating a magic system seems to be very different from mine, therefore I'm not sure if my comments will help you but maybe some of them give you something interesting to think about.
First of all, having a magic system in your world isn't an obligation. If you want magic, put it in, if not, leave it out and add fantastical things in other places. 
You seem to want magic in your story though. For me, the creation of magic always starts with the question: "What do I want them to be able to do? Which supernatural powers do I want to see? What do I want to write about? Another reasonable question to ask yourself at this point is: How will it help the story? I have to admit that I've neglected the last one myself which does pose a few problems.
When you know this, you can go on to other question. How to people become magic users? Is the magic inborn, learned, chosen, aquired or something else? 
As soon as you've answered these two things, things like magical learning, social reactions to magic will come up by themselves and you can deal with those. 
As far as limits are concerning, you're free to choose what suits your setting best as well. The fact that a fire mage is unable to control water or raise the dead is limit enough for me, but you can decide how much your mages can do in whichever way you like. There's only one danger: Avoid overpowered characters who can't be stopped by anyone and turn the world upside down with no effort, these are likely to ruin your plot. If someone has great powers, he should have opponents able to match him in some way. 
You need to know what is or is not possible with magic, but you don't need a complicated set of rules if you don't want it. The more details you're putting into your work, the more likely your readers will be to take everything apart and find the smallest logical issues. Therefore only put in detailed information if it is interesting, helps your story and if you've thought it through really well.


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## Addison (Jul 23, 2012)

Thank you Amanita. I have the social impact of magic and the like written down and am confident with all of that. I'm focusing on a magic foundation because when I reviewed the first third of my work it was bouncing all over the place. There was no pattern, no connection, nothing solid or concrete to explain any of it. Last night after a long day at the lake I sat down and wrote it all down. Here it is:

Each Race has its own system of magic. But this focuses on humans and magic. The magic of humans is difficult to explain as each culture has different habits. Most humans, particularly eastern and middle eastern, learn the magic as mortals, evolving into magic masters. But I will cover the system of Magic for those who already have the gift. 
     Most humans with the Gift have their Source by Inner True Magic. Their own personal spark brewed and glowing by their soul and persona. (There are some half-elves and such but we'll discuss those magics later) These sparks eventually fall under one of the following post-discussed categories: Classic, Mage and Unique. Just as this spark sets their power it also sets their limit. Sparks are like...cakes. Each cake is moist, fluffy and can be topped by icing or glaze. All cakes have certain matching ingredients. (Flour, eggs etc) yet there's something different in each which makes the spark different. 
     For instance: Seamus O'Malley can revive dead plants, dance a spell to action and see fairies. Whyzir Telumah' can match a gorilla in strength, manipulate the Savannah heat and pool the water from the jungle air. Obviously these magics differ by location and culture. But lets look at two Casters in the U.S.A. Same state, same county, same city. Olivia Brandt can animate objects to do her bidding. She can sing babies to sleep, laugh, play and not give toxic poops. Joe Leeman can run, walk, crawl and back flip on air. He can turn anything, the house, the fire, any color and has some control over weather. There's a difference right? I'll explain this as best I can. Everyone is born with a hot ember of magic inside. Most times that ember will glow brighter, the magic inside wavering and burning to enhance an average ability into an amazing one. So if Olivia's ember had stayed an ember she could run one heck of a day care center. Joe could be a star athlete with an eye for design and an instinct for weather.
     So what makes these embers spark? What makes them so different? Let me be clear that Olivia and Joe would be classified under Unique. Whyzir would be Classic, a Shaman. Seamus would be a Mage, a Fairy-Mage.  It's the mysterious Source of magics. It extends to ALL people. It controls magic, karma, 'everything happens for a reason', life and death.  When the window to ignite the spark opens, the pull toward a magic life doesn't intensify but it does make itself known. This is when True Magic is made. Will he reach deep down to that spark to to give the bully what he deserves? Or will he find a different solution not involving the ember? The answer decides if the ember snaps and sparks or stays intact to grow hotter. 
     You're probably wondering what makes a spark a Classic, a Mage or a Unique? That has to do with the Source and the Caster themselves. When someone in born the source will weave into every magical and mortal aspect of the person's birth. Culture, heritage, date of birth, astrological sign. From there it was up to the person, and parent's teaching, in the years leading up to a possible spark, to make that brisquette from which the spark feeds from, grows from and morphs from. Is he a pacifist? Does he repress a dark side? Does he like music? Extreme sports? Sympathetic or arrogant? So in a way the Caster had a part making their magic.
     I said earlier about half-Raceals. Here it get a little tricky, especially as the Spark can ignite in humans, half humans and full-Races. Most of the time the magic of the race dwarfs the magic spark. It keeps that Source ember from ever sparking. Other times the ember might hiss a few flecks of spark (caused by Caster's internal turmoil) This will give something extra to the Race abilities. A half-demon could be able to shape their fire balls into fire blades. An orc could be able to sense emotions. A half-fire fairy could suddenly make that stupid alarm clock combust. Most times, whether half or full race, the person retains racial abilities and the entire spark. One side feeds/enhances the other to keep the magic, and Caster, balanced. Rarely, like twins born conjoined at the butt rare, is when Race-magic and spark-magic combine into something entirely different. Like they're constantly enhancing the other so there's no room to separate. 
    Earlier I mentioned Contracts. This is mostly the case for Mages and Uniques. Let's go back to Olivia and Joe for a moment. Olivia could be called the 21st century's Mary Poppins.. In her case with powers she might find that something happens every time she sings. Or that the objects she animates still retains some magic life force after she's done. With a minor case like this all she needs is training. Joe is a different situation. he can change colors of everything, do track and gymnastics on air and control weather. There isn't any other label for him outside of Rogue. He runs on air during soccer games which gets him in trouble. Colors change with his moods (he's a teenager so as his moods change every half hour so does teh house, the dust, dog and neighborhood.) And it's raining, snowing and hailing beyond his control. It's wild cases like this which needs Contracts. The process is lengthy. First Joe is approached by someone of the MEPD (Magical Education Placement Department) to see if there's something anyone, even Joe himself, overlooked which could better identify his powers. If none then he's taken for a thorough exam. A physical and psychological exam, mortal and magical. The strength and process of his powers are thoroughly examined to identify just where they stem from. When everything is done he will be taken to the Contractors who fit the list. The Contrators examine him and his powers and pass judgement. If someone/thing/place accepts then he signs the Contract agreeing to their rules, laws and policies of magi'c. Thi rarely adds more power. It's more like they're caging the glow of the spark and magnifying all the areas so Joe can see, feel and harness all the colors beyond the red, orange and yellow.
     Oh a note about Olivia. the full extent, uses and limits of her magic will never be known unless he tests herself. Does she need a familiar? Is she skilled with illusions? Can she only use her song magic three times a day? All of these questions are answered by grading and observation of all Acolytes at all Magic training facilities. After first year Olivia will know everything about her powers. She may stay at the school or switch to one with classes better suited to her powers.

How does this sound?


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## mbartelsm (Jul 24, 2012)

It sound great, I could not possibly suggest anything as far as the magic system goes because it is rather complete and consistent, but I do have a couple of questions:

What happens to those who do not have access to magic in any form? are they bullied? are they on the lower classes of society? are they revered by the rest?

And you mentioned more than one planet, how do they travel between these?


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## Addison (Jul 24, 2012)

Thanks for the reply Mbartelsm. People who don't have magic themselves aren't cut off from calling on magic assistance. Let's say you had a poltergeist in your house. You'd call up a Boogey-Hunter (like a ghostbuster but magical) or such to take care of it. Some races bully mortals, some for obvious reasons like vampires. They is no upper or lower class based on the gift or lack of. There are laws restricting what magic can and can't do in the mortal society. Like an Illusionist can not use his powers to make a hit broadway play. He must have actors, props and such. The only time he may use illusions is during rehearsal to help the actors grasp a situation. There are also rules for what mortals can and can't do with magic. They can not accuse a Caster of stealing their car or lawnmower or such. If an accusation is made and goes beyond the picket fences then an investigator is called in to solve the problem. 
It's not really different planets. You've heard of string theory right? How there are eleven or so dimensions sitting right next to us on the same plane? That's what I'm talking about. In one dimension you have the world of the Fey. In another you have ghosts. There's one where stories and fairy tales live and so many more. But there are times when a Caster might have to get something from Venus in a mystical or spiritual sense. I beleive Venus is named after a Roman goddess so that would be their reason.


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## Meyrrek (Jul 24, 2012)

I think this may have already been mentioned but these limitations could fit (though you would be better to choose a few) if they correlated to types/schools of magic, the level of power needed for a spell or flurry of spells and finally the experience and willpower of the Mage.


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## Addison (Jul 24, 2012)

I've set that certain classes, Wizards, Witches, have a different limit than Shamans and Seer's. Thank you everyone for your support and help.


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## Jabrosky (Jul 25, 2012)

Addison said:


> Exhaustion: The use of magic drains the caster's engery. They become sleepy, hungry or both. If they continue using magic beyond their limit/level they can fall into a coma or die.


Before I even read this thread I had devised a magic system with precisely this property. What a coincidence!


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## Addison (Jul 25, 2012)

I think I just read it.


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