# Feedback on Elementals



## mbartelsm (Dec 6, 2012)

My universe has a kind of elemental magic with seven elements instead of the classic four (Wind, Fire, Metal, Earth, Wood, Water, Lightning). Each of these elements are governed by a god, which in turn, is governed by the two Titans, creators of the universe.

After mortals came to be, seven immortals were created by the gods to carry out their will on the world. These immortals eventually had descendants with mortals, these descendants and their descendants are called Elementals.

Elementals are characterized because they have an innate capacity to control their respective elements (unlike common mortals, who have to learn how to do this), instead of common blood, a form of their element flow trough their veins (fire elementals have a kind of liquid fire instead of blood, metal elementals have something similar to mercury, etc), and they can become one with their element if they wish. This last ability presents a great power, but a great disadvantage, as they also acquire their element's weaknesses (i.e. fire can be put out with water)


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## Leif Notae (Dec 6, 2012)

While that is good, and has a solid basis, I think the question lingering on my mind is "What is the boon bestowed on the followers?"

What powers are they granted? Will the most devout get close to being an immortal? Does that exist at all? Will this be based on faith and piety or mana and essence?


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## Saigonnus (Dec 6, 2012)

So I can get a bucket of water and kill a fire elemental? Seems a little silly when I thought about it that way. I would think since it's elemental fire rather than ordinary fire, it shouldn't be able to be extinguished by anything except perhaps elemental water. If they become one with an ordinary fire/water etc... perhaps for the time they are merged with it they'd be weaker, but you shouldn't make them so weak that an ordinary bucket of water could put them out.


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## mbartelsm (Dec 6, 2012)

Leif Notae said:


> While that is good, and has a solid basis, I think the question lingering on my mind is "What is the boon bestowed on the followers?"
> 
> What powers are they granted? Will the most devout get close to being an immortal? Does that exist at all? Will this be based on faith and piety or mana and essence?


No one, not even an elemental will ever be as powerful when controlling the same element as it's respective immortal, that's the reason why immortals tried to take over the world, because not even the gods could stop them (gods are not allowed to mess with souls, mortal or immortal).



Saigonnus said:


> So I can get a bucket of water and kill a fire elemental? Seems a little silly when I thought about it that way. I would think since it's elemental fire rather than ordinary fire, it shouldn't be able to be extinguished by anything except perhaps elemental water. If they become one with an ordinary fire/water etc... perhaps for the time they are merged with it they'd be weaker, but you shouldn't make them so weak that an ordinary bucket of water could put them out.


Perhaps you are right, besides, the only one with this huge disadvantage is fire, the other elements are not as vulnerable.


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## Queshire (Dec 6, 2012)

what about if someone was descended from two immortals? Would the kid of a fire and water elemental be a steam elemental?


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## mbartelsm (Dec 6, 2012)

Didn't thought about that... well, steam is just a mix of water and heat, it's not an element itself so that's not possible.
Maybe immortals, being of different elements, just can't have offspring as they are incompatible, the same goes for elementals


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## Leif Notae (Dec 6, 2012)

mbartelsm said:


> No one, not even an elemental will ever be as powerful when controlling the same element as it's respective immortal, that's the reason why immortals tried to take over the world, because not even the gods could stop them (gods are not allowed to mess with souls, mortal or immortal).



So what is the incentive to worship them? Why, as a reader or a viewer of this world, should I care about elemental wizards and priests? The thing is, unless you have titans and gods running around in your world, for a lack of a better term, dipping their elemental sticks in everything, you are dealing with normal priests and wizards with a little extra spoot.

You created this hierarchy that seems unreachable by mortal men. Even Christians get to hang with angels when they die.


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## Phietadix (Dec 6, 2012)

Leif Notae said:


> So what is the incentive to worship them? Why, as a reader or a viewer of this world, should I care about elemental wizards and priests? The thing is, unless you have titans and gods running around in your world, for a lack of a better term, dipping their elemental sticks in everything, you are dealing with normal priests and wizards with a little extra spoot.
> 
> You created this hierarchy that seems unreachable by mortal men. Even Christians get to hang with angels when they die.



But Christian's don't become angels. But like you imply there should be some reward for following the imortals and gods.


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## Wanara009 (Dec 6, 2012)

Phietadix said:


> But Christian's don't become angels. But like you imply there should be some reward for following the imortals and gods.



Yes, but they go to heaven and hang out with angels.

You see, _all_ religion have incentive for people to follow them. Even the worship of spirit of nature has this element (i.e.: the ability to control nature through the spirit's favour).


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## Subcreator (Dec 7, 2012)

Not all religions have a focus on the afterlife. It would work if the immortals were demanding worship or else they would kill the rebellious mortals. If the gods can't interfere, perhaps the people who worship them were opposed to the immortals and trying to get them to step in and wipe out the immortals. It seems like Greek-style religion would work as well, with the Stoics saying to worship and be good or else the immortals will wipe you out, the Epicureans saying do what you want because they don't care, and the Cynics saying, you're all stupid.

If the incentive is nothing more than "we want to stay alive", then people would worship.


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## Phietadix (Dec 7, 2012)

Did he ever mention that they're worshipped at all? He never said this was a religion.


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## Leif Notae (Dec 7, 2012)

Phietadix said:


> Did he ever mention that they're worshipped at all? He never said this was a religion.



If there is one things human/demi-humans do, it is worship powerful things. If they aren't worshiped at this point, they will be soon.


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## mbartelsm (Dec 10, 2012)

Leif Notae said:


> So what is the incentive to worship them? Why, as a reader or a viewer of this world, should I care about elemental wizards and priests? The thing is, unless you have titans and gods running around in your world, for a lack of a better term, dipping their elemental sticks in everything, you are dealing with normal priests and wizards with a little extra spoot.
> 
> You created this hierarchy that seems unreachable by mortal men. Even Christians get to hang with angels when they die.


They are not worshiped. Elementals are not necessarily more powerful than common mortals, they have a much better control of their own element but can't control the rest of the elements, humans can control as many as they are willing to learn.



Subcreator said:


> Not all religions have a focus on the afterlife. It would work if the immortals were demanding worship or else they would kill the rebellious mortals. If the gods can't interfere, perhaps the people who worship them were opposed to the immortals and trying to get them to step in and wipe out the immortals. It seems like Greek-style religion would work as well, with the Stoics saying to worship and be good or else the immortals will wipe you out, the Epicureans saying do what you want because they don't care, and the Cynics saying, you're all stupid.
> 
> If the incentive is nothing more than "we want to stay alive", then people would worship.


That's pretty much what happened, the immortals, being more powerful, tried to enslave all mortals, elementals were given a slightly better treatment than the rest. Eventually, titans gave mortals the gift of titanic magic (light and shadow, space and time) and taught a few mortals how to wield this gift against the immortals. The immortals were finally imprisoned in timeless and endless prisons.
After the whole crisis was over, elementals were hunted as a kind of revenge by the mortals, until only very few elementals remained alive



Phietadix said:


> Did he ever mention that they're worshipped at all? He never said this was a religion.



It's not a religion, it's fact. Mortals won't gain favor from the gods if they worship them, gods are forces of nature, they reign over the elements of the world, not over mortals.
The closest thing to religion is the worship of daemons (not actual name), which are mortals who've gone through a process of apotheosis and have a relatively large power over the lands they reign/control/live in.


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