# Theft of Swords?



## Phoenix

Hey, anyone read Michael J. Sullivan's _Theft of Sword_? I haven't finished it myself, but I would like to know what everyone thinks. From what I have read its a pretty interesting world and characters. Go Royce!


----------



## writeshiek33

i agree finished book 1 part of it on book 2 part interesting to combine three books in one  loving it so far


----------



## writeshiek33

just finished very well written


----------



## Phoenix

I just got done with the first book, how was the second?


----------



## MichaelSullivan

writeshiek33 said:


> just finished very well written



Thanks - I'm glad you enjoyed it.  The reality is the series was designed to escallate to the last book which basically means that the stories get better as they progress which, by definition, makes the early book the weakest link - unconventional...true..but when I wrote them I had no intention on publishing so I could do crazy things like that.


----------



## Edgemaker

Sounds like an Interesting Book just requested it through My Library but it has not come out yet. Looking forward to reading it during my Semester break.


----------



## Steerpike

Sounds good. I'm going to go and order it from Amazon.


----------



## MichaelSullivan

Thanks EdgeMaker.  The books are out so the library may not have ordered it.  My experience is that if a Patron makes a request they are likely to puchase. Sometime the libraries need to have the book reviewed by places like Library Journal or Publishers Weekly - and Theft of Swords has good reveiews for both, and was selected as one of the Top 10 Best Books of 2011 (for fantasy/science fiction).  When you make your request if you happen to mention that - then they will most certainly purchase a copy.


----------



## MichaelSullivan

Thanks Steerpike - let me know what you think of it.


----------



## Erica

From what I've seen/heard it looks like a good read. May have to bump it up in my distressingly long queue of books to read. Sigh, I'm having a hard time keeping up with my reading now that I'm writing as well.


----------



## Edgemaker

Got ahold of the Book the other day and I am glued to it.


----------



## MichaelSullivan

Erica said:


> From what I've seen/heard it looks like a good read. May have to bump it up in my distressingly long queue of books to read. Sigh, I'm having a hard time keeping up with my reading now that I'm writing as well.



Hey Erica - that would be great.  Personally I take at least an hour out of every day to read.  It helps to clear my head from writing.


----------



## MichaelSullivan

Edgemaker said:


> Got ahold of the Book the other day and I am glued to it.



Wow didn't realize the publisher was coating the pages with super glue - but a good idea nonetheless.  Glad you're enjoying.


----------



## writeshiek33

it help bring back an idea back in my mind


----------



## MichaelSullivan

writeshiek33 said:


> it help bring back an idea back in my mind



Glad to hear that writeshiek.


----------



## AlexanderKira

Finished _Theft of Swords_, really great book. I loved Royce and Hadrian, Alric not so much, but I did grow with him. Great story with great world and interesting, overarching plot. I am on page 100 on _Rise of Empire_, not as exciting starting up. I'm just not feeling the excitement I did when I first met Royce and Hadrian, but it is still told greatly nonetheless. I also downloaded _The Viscount and the Witch_ on my Kindle Fire, look forward to reading those. 

Mr. Sullivan, you really have crafted a great story with amazing characters, I would definitely love it if you continued to write fantasy. Thanks for all the hard work.


----------



## MichaelSullivan

AlexanderKira said:


> Finished _Theft of Swords_, really great book. I loved Royce and Hadrian, Alric not so much, but I did grow with him. Great story with great world and interesting, overarching plot. I am on page 100 on _Rise of Empire_, not as exciting starting up. I'm just not feeling the excitement I did when I first met Royce and Hadrian, but it is still told greatly nonetheless. I also downloaded _The Viscount and the Witch_ on my Kindle Fire, look forward to reading those.
> 
> Mr. Sullivan, you really have crafted a great story with amazing characters, I would definitely love it if you continued to write fantasy. Thanks for all the hard work.



Thanks Alexander...Yeah Alric you're not supposed to like - so I guess I was successful. He is the one who grows the most in the first book but he still have some personality traits that he needs to work on.  Nyphron Rising (first book in Rise of Empire) is definetly a slower moving book. It centers more on "the woman" (Thrace and Arista) and is probably the "slowest" book of the series but for some it is their favorite as it does quite a bit of character building.

Writing anything is hard work but it is also a whole lot of fun as well. I feel very fortunate that I get to do what I love and make a living at it.  Thanks for writing.


----------



## Steerpike

Finally got a copy at Barnes and Noble. Enjoying it quite a lot so far. Read the first hundred pages in one sitting, which is certainly a good sign


----------



## Argentum

I must say I really liked how two stories were put together into one book, because, when one story came to a very nice and satisfying close, there was still half the book left! Made my day over and over again.


----------



## MichaelSullivan

Steerpike said:


> Finally got a copy at Barnes and Noble. Enjoying it quite a lot so far. Read the first hundred pages in one sitting, which is certainly a good sign



Nice - I'm always amazed at what takes me years to write can be consumed by people so quickly - some in just a few days. Alas a writers we'll never be able to keep up with our readers.


----------



## MichaelSullivan

Argentum said:


> I must say I really liked how two stories were put together into one book, because, when one story came to a very nice and satisfying close, there was still half the book left! Made my day over and over again.



You can thank Orbit for that. I wanted to keep the books as six (as that is how I originally envisioned the series) but they thought they were a bit "slim" for fantasy readers who like thick books so they wanted to double them up.  As I said I was initially hesitant, but now that all is said and done - I'm glad they did it this way as well.


----------



## ThinkerX

Read all three books.  For some reason, the main characters reminded me of Fritz Liebers 'Fafhrd and Grey Mouser'.  

The near total absence of human magicians was a bit of a change from the norm these days. I do find myself wondering though - I was under the impression that the old magician who attempted to teach the princess magic in book one had several other students.  Gotta wonder if 

1) any of them ever amounted to anything magic wise; and 

2) if any of them somehow survived the events in the series.

Also find myself wondering about the spread of humanity and the scale of the world; the maps appear to cover an area maybe a thousand miles across, if that, and humanity occupies only a portion of that area.  That leaves a *lot* of completely unknown territory out there.  

Main critique was that things were a bit...overly limited, I guess you could say, in that the one main character was also the 'rightful heir' and the possible rivals all had 'issues' of one sort or another that took them out of the running.  Or to put it another way, something happened, the list of people who had the skill and the ability to do it was always pretty small, and always somebody who'd already figured somehow into the lives of the main characters.    I might not be putting that correctly.


----------



## MichaelSullivan

ThinkerX said:


> Read all three books.  For some reason, the main characters reminded me of Fritz Liebers 'Fafhrd and Grey Mouser'.



I hear that comment often. Interestingly enough I never read any of those books...and can't now as I'm afraid it would influence me. Someday I certainly need to check them out.



ThinkerX said:


> The near total absence of human magicians was a bit of a change from the norm these days. I do find myself wondering though - I was under the impression that the old magician who attempted to teach the princess magic in book one had several other students.  Gotta wonder if
> 
> 1) any of them ever amounted to anything magic wise; and
> 
> 2) if any of them somehow survived the events in the series.



Not sure if you are speaking of Essrahaddon or Arcadius. Essrahaddon only had one student (Arista), Arcadius had other students but he wasn't really a practioner of "The Art" he was a faquin...could do a few minor things through manual means but never learned how to harness the power of 'true magic.'



ThinkerX said:


> Also find myself wondering about the spread of humanity and the scale of the world; the maps appear to cover an area maybe a thousand miles across, if that, and humanity occupies only a portion of that area.  That leaves a *lot* of completely unknown territory out there.



Yes it does ;-p



ThinkerX said:


> Main critique was that things were a bit...overly limited, I guess you could say, in that the one main character was also the 'rightful heir' and the possible rivals all had 'issues' of one sort or another that took them out of the running.  Or to put it another way, something happened, the list of people who had the skill and the ability to do it was always pretty small, and always somebody who'd already figured somehow into the lives of the main characters.    I might not be putting that correctly.



I'm not  sure I understand your statement fully. As I don't want to get too "spoilerish" here feel free to write me at michael (dot) sullivan (dot) dc (at) gmail.com and we can discuss it more.


----------



## Steerpike

MichaelSullivan said:


> I hear that comment often. Interestingly enough I never read any of those books...and can't now as I'm afraid it would influence me. Someday I certainly need to check them out.



I had a similar thought, but I think it is more to do with the warrior/thief pairing than anything else. Your style is not like Leiber's, and Hadrian isn't anything like Fafhrd other than being a warrior. I can see a little more resemblance between Royce and the Gray Mouser, but once you get past the thief-like aspects of the characters, they diverge as well. And your stories are quite different from those of Leiber as well. So while I think it is a natural association for people to make if they've read Leiber's work and then bought your book, I felt that there wasn't much similarity beyond the combination of the two archetypes in the protagonists.


----------



## Steerpike

MichaelSullivan said:


> Nice - I'm always amazed at what takes me years to write can be consumed by people so quickly - some in just a few days. Alas a writers we'll never be able to keep up with our readers.



This is quite true. You'll be dismayed to learn that I finished the book over the weekend (but pleased to hear I am going to buy the next one this week).

I don't usually go through books quite that fast, though I do read quickly. I wasn't feeling well this weekend so I was just laying around for extended periods of time. The book was good company.

PS: Nothing better happen to Arista! (no, don't tell me!)


----------



## ThinkerX

I think I can do this without getting spoilerish...maybe...



> I had a similar thought, but I think it is more to do with the warrior/thief pairing than anything else. Your style is not like Leiber's, and Hadrian isn't anything like Fafhrd other than being a warrior. I can see a little more resemblance between Royce and the Gray Mouser, but once you get past the thief-like aspects of the characters, they diverge as well. And your stories are quite different from those of Leiber as well. So while I think it is a natural association for people to make if they've read Leiber's work and then bought your book, I felt that there wasn't much similarity beyond the combination of the two archetypes in the protagonists.



Almost.  In the first book (more or less) Hadrian and Royce come across to me as being very much like Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser, and that appears to be true of their backstory as well.  The histories are different, but the mentality seems very similiar.  Lieber also attempted to give Fafhrd and the Mouser a 'sense of destiny', and that element is present with Hadrian and Royce as well - and much more developed, to boot.   



> Not sure if you are speaking of Essrahaddon or Arcadius. Essrahaddon only had one student (Arista), Arcadius had other students but he wasn't really a practioner of "The Art" he was a faquin...could do a few minor things through manual means but never learned how to harness the power of 'true magic.'



Arcadius was the one I had in mind.  And while his other apprentices sort of vanished very early on, one has to wonder if they were as devoid of true talent as their master.  After all, Royce's girlfriend had smidgen of ability,  so...you got somebody else like her out there, who happens to hear about a class on actual magic opening up...taking the class, learning a few things...(and then running full tilt for the hills when all hell starts to break loose)



> I'm not sure I understand your statement fully. As I don't want to get too "spoilerish" here feel free to write me at michael (dot) sullivan (dot) dc (at) gmail.com and we can discuss it more



If at first you don't succeed...ok, what it comes down to, is that with just a couple of exceptions, Hadrian and Royce already had a history of sorts with nearly all the other major players.  Hadrian had a reputation as a supreme warrior that extended even among the goblin tribes, and Royce was something of a legend throughout the underworld.


----------



## MichaelSullivan

Steerpike said:


> I had a similar thought, but I think it is more to do with the warrior/thief pairing than anything else. Your style is not like Leiber's, and Hadrian isn't anything like Fafhrd other than being a warrior. I can see a little more resemblance between Royce and the Gray Mouser, but once you get past the thief-like aspects of the characters, they diverge as well. And your stories are quite different from those of Leiber as well. So while I think it is a natural association for people to make if they've read Leiber's work and then bought your book, I felt that there wasn't much similarity beyond the combination of the two archetypes in the protagonists.



Well having not read them I can't say for sure. The things that people have mentioned is that both have a fair amount of humor in them and they tend to be more low magic fantasy.


----------



## MichaelSullivan

Steerpike said:


> This is quite true. You'll be dismayed to learn that I finished the book over the weekend (but pleased to hear I am going to buy the next one this week).
> 
> I don't usually go through books quite that fast, though I do read quickly. I wasn't feeling well this weekend so I was just laying around for extended periods of time. The book was good company.
> 
> PS: Nothing better happen to Arista! (no, don't tell me!)



I am indeed pleased that you are moving on to the next book - the series was designed to get more complicated and richer the deeper in you go. As to Arista - my lips are sealed.  It is interesting though as she seems to be a very devisive character some love her, some hate her, very few seem to be so-so on the subject of her.


----------



## Shockley

I checked these out at my place of employment today, and I will probably pick up the first one very soon.


----------



## MichaelSullivan

Shockley said:


> I checked these out at my place of employment today, and I will probably pick up the first one very soon.



Nice to hear - I hope you enjoy - and thanks for the support.


----------



## Erica

I'm reading it. I love Royce and Hadrian so far, and the priest character makes me smile. Wish the gals in the story were a bit more interesting, but I've been enjoying it so far.


----------



## Janga

Book 1 was fantastic. I finished it very quickly. I find that Book 2 is dragging on a bit... especially the parts that do not include Royce and Hadrian.


----------



## MichaelSullivan

Erica said:


> I'm reading it. I love Royce and Hadrian so far, and the priest character makes me smile. Wish the gals in the story were a bit more interesting, but I've been enjoying it so far.



Glad you are liking it Erica. As for the women...if you stay with the series you'll see that they will play just as important a role as Royce and Hadrian.  The series actually has 4 main characters...two men and two women. I build all my characters over time, but you are correct the women have a slower build and in the early book(s) they are portrayed in such a way that their transitions are more impactful. So, I'll ask you to trust that any deficiencies are done for dramatic effect and not because of a lack of attention.


----------



## MichaelSullivan

Janga said:


> Book 1 was fantastic. I finished it very quickly. I find that Book 2 is dragging on a bit... especially the parts that do not include Royce and Hadrian.



I've heard that sometimes. Crown was trimed of anything superfluous. It was very plot centric and as the story evolves I need to start providing background on both the characters and the world. Crown was very much stand alone and in fact could be removed from the series entirely. It does little more than introduce the characters. Avempartha, on the other hand, actually starts laying the foundation for a much more complicated story arc that is prevaliant through the entire series. 

Actually of the two most like Avempartha better, but there are also some die hard Crown fans.


----------



## Shockley

Started reading Theft of Swords. I'm a hundred pages in so far, and so far it's pretty great. Good stuff.


----------



## Erica

Interesting that Orbit made you double up the books to make them longer. I've been told by people on several fantasy writers groups that it's hard for a newer author to get an agent or sell a book that's more than about 120k words long because shipping and distribution is prohibitively expensive for a longer book, and book stores don't want to allocate shelf space for thick books...even fantasy. That floored me, since most of the fantasy books in my library are much longer than that and are quite thick.

Seems like there's a lot of contradictory information out there about length and marketability.

And I agree that Royce and Hadrian remind me a bit of Faffherd and the Gray Mouser. Not in the particulars, but in some generalities...such as having rather different personalities and complementing one another well. Those books are definitely worth a read, as they are one of the 'classics' that were ahead of their time in many ways and have a lot of wry humor in them.


----------



## MichaelSullivan

Shockley said:


> Started reading Theft of Swords. I'm a hundred pages in so far, and so far it's pretty great. Good stuff.



Great to hear - I'm glad you are enjoying it.


----------



## MichaelSullivan

Erica said:


> Interesting that Orbit made you double up the books to make them longer. I've been told by people on several fantasy writers groups that it's hard for a newer author to get an agent or sell a book that's more than about 120k words long because shipping and distribution is prohibitively expensive for a longer book, and book stores don't want to allocate shelf space for thick books...even fantasy. That floored me, since most of the fantasy books in my library are much longer than that and are quite thick.



The statement is still true - that most publishers want a new book around 100,000 (sometimes even less). I think in my case there were a few contributing factors. First...I really wasn't completely "new" I already had a following and some knew my name because of the self-publishng success so they looked at me a bit differently.  For them I think the main issue was that there were six books and it's hard to keep 6 books in stock in a bookstore at once.  Also they wanted to get the "whole" series out in quick succession so doing a book a month for six would mean 6 months of releases whereas doubling them up there is only 3 months.



Erica said:


> Seems like there's a lot of contradictory information out there about length and marketability.



Again, for someone who is querying...I do think the lower word count is indeed accurate - I think my case is the exception based on this particular series.



Erica said:


> And I agree that Royce and Hadrian remind me a bit of Faffherd and the Gray Mouser. Not in the particulars, but in some generalities...such as having rather different personalities and complementing one another well. Those books are definitely worth a read, as they are one of the 'classics' that were ahead of their time in many ways and have a lot of wry humor in them.



Yeah, that's what I've heard that both books have humor whereas some other fantasy books are very dry and serious.


----------



## writeshiek33

ever thought having audio book done of the series i might get that as i am doing that to books i already read in past


----------

