# Burn Scars



## teacup (Dec 29, 2013)

Okay, so I have a character in my wip who is blind with burn scars on her face.

Basically, when she still had her vision, her drunken father threw some hot oil from a pan over her face. The way I have it is that he slapped her first, so she raised her hand to her mouth, and then the oil was thrown. This resulted in most her face and the back of her hand being scarred, leaving her chin and lip area. I know that the oil would have run down her face and neck. The oil also got in her eyes, blinding her.

I've had a few internet searches, but I thought I'd best make a thread so I get this 100% right.

What I want is any more information on:
Hot oil burns - like, what would they look like, how would they feel to touch, how much would they deform the skin, etc?
Being blinded by hot oil
The eyes - Would they stay or be taken out? What would they look like if they stayed? Like, would they be white, would the skin have formed over them or something?
Would she be completely blinded, or would she see lights and shadows and such?

Thanks


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## Guru Coyote (Dec 29, 2013)

Ok, I'm no expert at burn marks etc. but here is my take:
* burns from hot oil would make the scar-dkin be very glossy (not like skin, more like plastic), and the face/features (nose) would probably look a bit like molten wax.

What tech-level is your story set in? I think the available medicine would very much determine what happens with the eyes.
I think it likely that she could sense light/dark, but not see proberly. Most likely the pupil/lens would suffer, but not the actual eye, as I guess the eye-lids should keep most of the oil from reaching too deep.
If she can open her eye-lids or if they would heal shut is another question though.

If you need any advice on actually being blind, feel free to ask. I happen to be an exÃœert of sorts on that one.


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## teacup (Dec 29, 2013)

I should have mentioned the tech level. It's around medieval/middle ages.

Thanks, Guru. Knowing more about the blind wouldn't hurt, so I'd appreciate that. Either on this thread or in PM


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## Guru Coyote (Dec 29, 2013)

Another aspect you should elaborate on is culture and wealth of the girl and father. Living as a blind(ed) person will change dramatically according to your wealth and the culture. Depending on the culure also is that fact that she is a girl... 

Just to illustrate the influence of culture and wealth: Homer is said to have been blind. In his culture tnough, that fact mattered little. He was wealthy enough to afford servants to lead him around, and in those times even scolars where not actually expected to be able to read and write (one had slaves for that).


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## JadedSidhe (Dec 29, 2013)

One thing you should consider is the type of scars that result from the burns. Typically, there are keloid, hypertrophic and then there are contractures. Being that the scarring is on her face, it can deform the shape of her facial features (eyes, nose, mouth, ears if also involved). Even if the scars don't reach her mouth and nose, the scarring on her cheek could still pull her lips and nostrils away from the norm. The scarring could also affect the range of motion of her neck in that she may not be able to fully turn her head from side to side and up and down.

Scars that have healed (if they're no longer red) can be either much darker or much lighter than normal skin.

I can tell you from personal experience that there will be splatter burns involved as well, depending on if the hot oil came head on or somewhat from the side, there will be dots of burns on her shoulder(s), chest, perhaps even stomach and side. 

Hypertrophic scars can be minor, they can also get better over time. 

The scarring to her hand is as big of a problem as the facial scarring, as there is (I would think) more of a chance of contracture scarring that will twist her fingers. 

That being said, I don't know what they would use in your world, but there are some homeopathic treatments for burns that could help your girl heal. Alendula and natural honey to name two, so you have wiggle room as far as how bad the burns actually turn out and still be believable. 

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

Edit: One other thing to consider is the temperature of the oil. If the oil wasn't boiling when her father threw it at her, that will also affect the level of burns. So, if you want to lessen the damage and scarring, you can adjust that. IE: She was lucky in that she'd pulled the pot of oil off the fire after she'd finished cooking their meal.


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## teacup (Dec 29, 2013)

I hadn't even thought there would be different types of scars, thanks, JadedSidhe!
Man, there is a lot to take into account, here. Helpful site, too 


Ok, I'll elaborate more on the girl:
She lives only with her father, who is a drunk and is out quite a lot, working or drinking. They have enough money to support themselves in a small house enough to get by, and to buy her dad his drinks.
The way I have it now is that she's reliant on her father because she's blind, so she can't really go out and do much. I have her doing what she can around the house, though - like cleaning and preparing meals. Is this plausible, and how far would she be able to go with this? Would she be able to cook, not just prepare meals?


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## JadedSidhe (Dec 29, 2013)

I'd say she could learn to do those things, (I can tell the difference between a medium rare and medium well steak by touch) but it would take time and she'd probably need someone to teach her. 

Other things I could see her doing, and she would need help to initially organize her things, but beading, comes to mind. Gardening also comes to mind, sight, scent, feel would come into play with that. Basket weaving is also a possibility, maybe even making pottery. Again, unless she knew how to do these things before she'd been blinded, she'd need someone to teach her. On the upside of this, the manual dexterity in these acts would encourage her to move her fingers and arms rather and thus lessen the chance of losing the use of them. That was one of the things the Dr. stressed when my kid was burned as a toddler.

She could, in theory, get herself to the market square (or stores if you have them) by counting, scent and hearing would also be important with that as well. I'd think she'd need someone to help her learn that, initially, I'd think she'd be too afraid and/or intimidated by the prospect of going out in the wide world and getting lost. Perhaps a kindly neighbor?

I could see there being added tension between father and daughter, she makes things, sells them, and he takes the money and goes drinking.


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## teacup (Dec 29, 2013)

Thanks again, Jaded.

I should also mention that the burning happened 7 years ago from the point I'm at in the story right now. So, would the scars look any different years on, or would they look as they have already been described?


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## Caged Maiden (Dec 29, 2013)

I went to school with a girl who had severe burns on her arms, hands, shoulder and neck, stretching up to her face.   I can say that she had full use of her body though the burns were severe, but still, her skin looked stretched, like pulled taut where it was burned, and all marred and textured.  She was a dark-skinned girl so I can't say whether pigment would be damaged for some people, but her pigment was unchanged.  

The worst part of it was... she sort of looked gross.  I could see someone who healed well from the physical pain going through a lifetime of emotional pain because she's shunned and people avoid touching her.  Even in our modern world, I think that girl was probably very outcast by other children.  I didn't have her in any of my classes, just saw her in the locker room, but I can imagine in that environment, dressing with others, it was probably the worst environment for the person who is different.

Hope that helps.


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## JadedSidhe (Dec 29, 2013)

Depending on the scar type, hypertrophic scarring for example, can look better over time. The scars on my fingers are virtually invisible now (granted, I had silvadene to treat the burns). My kid had a skin graft for his burns. It took years, but it looks much better than it used to. The more minor burns on his feet, shoulder and chest are nearly invisible. (being too hot or too cold can make them a little more noticable, though).


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## Guru Coyote (Dec 30, 2013)

A thought regarding the emotional side: the girl in your story has a pecutliar situation here: she may never have seen herself and her disfigurement. There may be a small blessing in that.

Also, the amout and range of thing she can/dould do will very much depend on (as has been noted) on:
* did she know how to do it before being blind?
* is there someone to teach?
* how high is her motivation to just figure it out? She has had 7 years after all, and only a drunk to comment on what she does.

Another factor may be: can she think it possible? What is very useful here is to have seen, say a blind person use a cane. 

As to what can be done in general as a blind person.... The most decising factor usually is repetition, practice, and the will to not give up. Much like learning to walk, really. Again, she has had 7 years and necessity. 

The worst enemy of a blind person becoming active or self-reliant is... psychonolgy (emotion). There is a strong urge to just give up and curl into a ball. The environment telling you what you can't do as a blind person is another limiting factor. (Here I think the girl in your story is ain a 'good' situation, as she seems to be mostly left to her own.)

If you  do have her go to the village square to shop or sell goods, you might want to consider how the villagers react to her. Pity? Disdain? Do they respect her or shun her?

Oh, and is this a side-character or your MC  With all this discussion... she's developing quite an character arc methinks.


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## teacup (Dec 30, 2013)

> Oh, and is this a side-character or your MC
> 
> 
> 
> ...


She is a side character, who only actually appears a few chapters from the end of book 1  She becomes very important to one of my MCs. 


Thanks for your comments, Guru Coyote, they're very helpful ^^


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## SeverinR (Dec 30, 2013)

First,
the eyelids will not protect the eyes from hot liquids, so I think assuming the hands shielded the eyes would allow the chance to have some vision, otherwise the eye tissue would be destroyed. The burning liquids would flow down, so extensive eyebrow burning and cheek burning would result, it would swell and probably affect the vision.

The problems with burns, they blister, the fluid from the blisters is from the body, much area of burn draws alot of fluid from the body.  Hypovolemic shock would probably result, her face is burned so she probably won't or couldn't drink, so she would probably die, since they didn't have iv's back then.  After the initial burn, infection is very common, and then the fluid shift happens. Fuid shift: The body draws fluid from all areas it can, eventually the body must put the fluids back and if the person hasn't rehydrated enough, the body looses to much fluid and dies.

So some how she lived, the face would be misshapened, she might have to hold her head a certain way to see around the cheek or eyebrow that are misshapened from the blistering and scarring.

Remember 1st degree burns are the superficial skin(red skin), 2nd degree burns are deeper tissue burns(blisters), 3rd degree burns are full thickness, and nerves are destroyed. 
2nd degree on the eyelids would cause eye damage probably destroying normal vision if not all.
Because the depth of damage would damage the cornea and conjuctiva of the eye.


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## SeverinR (Dec 30, 2013)

****Do not click on link if you are squimish!****
I share this link for the purpose of helping you understand the different burns or the face. These are medical pictures.

The pictures are of real facial burns, I am a nurse and an EMT, I am serious, these are not nice pictures.  Burn pics of all ages, Do not look if you can't handle it.

These are real people with real facial burns. Children are included in the pics.
This will show you what to expect from burns.  Some are pre-treatment, meaning not all cleaned up- ie very graphic.

I do not want to cause anyone distress, last warning do not look if you can't take it.

Facial burns - Bing Images

There are some burns that took the eye(s), Also the facial hair is gone.  
I believe the people with the smooth face are probably results of plastic surgery which they wouldn't have back then.  The rough scar tissue would be before plastic tried to fix the scar tissue.


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## Guru Coyote (Dec 30, 2013)

SeverinR said:


> ****Do not click on link if you are squimish!****
> I share this link for the purpose of helping you understand the different burns or the face. These are medical pictures.



Thanks for that, and special thanks for taking the care about the warnings!

A good point regarding the 'glossy skin' being a result of (modern) medicine. I have seen interviews with people who had their face melted off... but those were in modern times. It is still not a sight to remember.

This thought went through my mind just now: "The things we do to those (imaginary) people who happend to be born in the worlds we invent."


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## teacup (Dec 30, 2013)

Thanks a lot, SeverinR. 
I've looked at many images of burns like these, but more is always better. Real images are very helpful to me, for this 





> This thought went through my mind just now: "The things we do to those  (imaginary) people who happend to be born in the worlds we invent."


I'm glad they are imaginary, otherwise my characters would be very mad


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## Guru Coyote (Dec 30, 2013)

I think the story of the writer/creator being drawn into the world he/she created has been done... I imagine it's not a nice story


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## Ginger Bee (Dec 30, 2013)

My cousin pulled a pot of boiling oil down over himself when he was a child.  His shoulder and arm were covered by the oil.  I imagine his scars are much like your character's scars would be.

It is extreme.  Even 30 years later.  Some areas are thicker than others, so there's a general wavy, lumpy nature.  There are some hollowed-out areas where pooling occurred.    The color is fairly uniform--two or three shades lighter than the rest of his skin.  There's a general look of tightness, like the skin has contracted around his arm.

The arm, hand, and shoulder are all pretty functional.  The movement is a little bit slower than it should be, and his range of motion is a little limited.  All of the digits work and his grasp is fine.  If he wore long sleeves and a glove, you wouldn't notice anything.

Hope that helps.


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## SeverinR (Dec 31, 2013)

Guru Coyote said:


> Thanks for that, and special thanks for taking the care about the warnings!
> 
> A good point regarding the 'glossy skin' being a result of (modern) medicine. I have seen interviews with people who had their face melted off... but those were in modern times. It is still not a sight to remember.
> 
> This thought went through my mind just now: "The things we do to those (imaginary) people who happend to be born in the worlds we invent."


I actually had 2 moderators look at it too, to be sure I did enough to warn people.
I think looking at the real thing helps to establish the character.

I had an incident that I was not proud of at the start but it was a great ending.
I was in a Walmart, and heard this little girl laughing, I looked over and the mother was tickling the girl, the little girl looked at me, her face was terribly disfigured from burns, I looked away and she saw me, but then I looked back and she looked back at me, I think she was suprised when I smiled at her.
I bet not to many people look her in the eyes and smile.


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## Guru Coyote (Dec 31, 2013)

My first thought when reading that this burnt girl was a character in a medieval time: She would be shunned and outcast.
But... considering our modern belief that *everything* can be fixed with medicine... How much more must such a modern girl suffer? There are things we can not fix, not even today. 
In past times, that fact was just a fact of nature. Some things don't heal. Possibly a burn victim who actually survived their damage in those times... might have earned respect? Admiration? I don't know, it's just a thought.


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## SeverinR (Dec 31, 2013)

I think it would depend on the society.
If she moved to a new town I think she would probably be shunned. The stereotypical witch or evil being is always deformed and ugly.  Rumor could have that she was practicing black magic and it got away from her.
But in the town that knew her and her family before the injury, they might except her.


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## teacup (Jan 1, 2014)

I think I've got a very good idea of how she will be, now. Thanks everyone.

Of course, if anyone has anything to add, even if it's not much, please post. Everything is helpful with this


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## teacup (Jan 14, 2014)

I'm back for more!
Okay, so would this girl, who's had her eyes burned to blindness by oil be able to cry? I've had a quick google search and only found things about blind people crying, who haven't been blinded in this way. Anybody have any idea at all?


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## CupofJoe (Jan 14, 2014)

From what I know...
If the eye is still in the socket but the eye is blind, then they should be able to cry normally [produce tears]. If on the other hand the damage/scaring/blinding of the eye has damaged the tear ducts [and that is surprisingly easy to do]. With oil I would guess that the intense heat would be more than sufficient to do that, so there won't be any tears. 
There is still the rest of the body to cry [shake, moan etc.] just no tears. 
Back in the day we had an old family friend that had been caught in an electrical explosion [back in the 40s or 50s - I think] and had been left blind. The eyes were so badly damaged that they had been removed and sockets sown up [which makes me thing wartime]. I remember that he could cry from one eye and not the other. In fact he had to constantly dab at the crying eye to keep his face dry. You couldn't tell if he was asleep unless you could see the tears on his cheek.


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## teacup (Jan 14, 2014)

Thanks CupofJoe. So, it is possible to still cry, but very unlikely. I think I might either have her only cry from one eye, or not at all. I'm still deciding, hmm.


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## Yellow (Jan 14, 2014)

I'd go with a character that cries only from one eye. It seems much more distinctive and memorable to me. But maybe that's just me.


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## SeverinR (Jan 15, 2014)

The tear ducts are as delicate as the eye tissue. If the eye is gone the ducts are probably destroyed.
If the eye remains, tear ducts could also remain.
The head turns, the hand lifts to shield the face, so one eye could survive realistically, even though the other is destroyed.

I don't know about blindness from fire and heat. The tissue is so delicate, I think its all or nothing. Either the eye is burned and ruptures(gone), or it remains in tact and has some vision in it. It could be altered vision by the surrounding tissue being mis-shapened causing distorted vision.  
I guess the heat could be just enough to make the lense translucent but basically blind. Looking at the world through a bathroom window.


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## Guru Coyote (Jan 15, 2014)

Yeah, I second whatSeverinR says. Either the eye is kaputt, then there are no tear ducks intact.
Or the eye is only 'blinded' in the sense that the lenses have become opaque... this would mean the character sees light/dark and possibly some shapes (a door, window) but nothing concrete. This kind of 'blindness' seems rather realistic for the setting and the fact that she did somehow manage to get along so long. A lot of 'gray area' comes into play when we call someone 'blind.' In modern times we have 'legally blind' - that's what's true for me. I DO see things and can even read what I am writing here... whit a lot of help (large font, inverted colors..), but for all daily purposes I am considered blind.

I do also like the idea of the girl only being able to cry on one eye! That seems likely to happen and makes her very memorable.


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## teacup (Jan 15, 2014)

I'm not entirely sure about the one eye crying thing, because I already have 2 characters with stuff happening with their eyes, so it might be a bit much. One loses an eye and another has a dragonlike one. The dragonlike one could work well with this as this character falls in love with the blind girl, and it could be fun to have both of them have a "strange eye" but it could be a bit too much, now.

Thanks, guys


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