# Combining genres



## RedRidingHood (Oct 5, 2011)

I always find myself wanting to use elements for other genres. For example, when working with quick dialogue, I'll format it as if I'm writing a play. Or, I'll have pages where the setting is formatted like I'm writing a separate poem. Does anyone else do this? Or do you think that mixing genres is annoying to the reader?


----------



## Emeria (Oct 5, 2011)

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with mixing genres a little bit.  If you look at Tolkien's work, there were long excerpts of poem written within the story, especially when one of the characters was telling a story, which was commonly done through poetry in his work.

As far as the play-type format, for dialogue (if it's between two people and they're just standing there talking), I usually prefer something more like...

"Are you sure it's okay that we do this?" she asked.
"Of course!" he replied.  "What's the worst that can happen?"
"I dunno.  But Mom's gonna be pissed when she finds out."
"So?"  There was a slight pause.  "Do you want ice cream or not?"
"Well... ice cream is yummy, but..."

Pathetic example, but it was all I could think of right now to illustrate the point.  In case you couldn't tell, it's a dialogue between a sister and a brother who are thinking about sneaking into the freezer and getting ice cream when their mom said no.


----------



## Johnny Cosmo (Oct 5, 2011)

If I'm right in what I'm imagining you mean, I think it'd frustrate me, and it wouldn't exactly look professional.

Is there a reason why you'd prefer to format dialogue as if it's a play? Or to format the setting as if it's poetry? If there is no good reason, then I'd just stick with standard formatting. In fact, I'd probably just stick with standard formatting anyway...


----------



## Dragonie (Oct 5, 2011)

As a reader, I think it really would annoy me. Poetry is one thing, but switching to a play format for dialogue when the story doesn't have anything to do with a theatre/play/acting/etc. would be weird.


----------



## Lord Darkstorm (Oct 5, 2011)

Genre is where something would be classified like..Fantasy, scifi, the now non existent horror, drama, mystery, or any of the other groupings that define what you will find within those stories.  Poetry is a different type of writing, not really a genre.  Same for screenplays.  While poetry has been added to writing, and is usually acceptable, dialog in screenplay style for normal fiction won't cut it with publisher, or most readers.  If you are writing a screenplay, write one, if you are doing a story, do a story.

You can mingle them all you want while you write, but prior to pushing it out for anyone else to read, make it whichever type you want it to be throughout.


----------



## Degenerate Hill Person (Oct 5, 2011)

I think it could be a neat idea, but would have to be executed very well for it to work right.  It would definitely give one's writing a different look, sort of an experimental collage style with prose, poetry and play format dialogue stuff. The play format stuff would probably read very fast, the poetry much more slowly(depending on the complexity I reckon), "regular" prose probably somewhere between the two--which might be something interesting to play around with for a writer.  Hey, if it ever hits, at least it would be easy to write the screenplay for any type of visual-media adaptation, just lift it out wholesale from the text!


----------



## Johnny Cosmo (Oct 5, 2011)

> Genre is where something would be classified like..Fantasy, scifi, the now non existent horror, drama, mystery, or any of the other groupings that define what you will find within those stories.



Yeah, that's what I was expecting when I clicked the thread.



> I think it could be a neat idea, but would have to be executed very well for it to work right. It would definitely give one's writing a different look, sort of an experimental collage style with prose, poetry and play format dialogue stuff.



A publisher certainly won't be fond of wacky formatting hybrids, and the 'different look' will be nonsensical.


----------



## JCFarnham (Oct 5, 2011)

So yeah what we're talking about here is combining styles or formats. 

In my opinion, it would have to be done VERY well. Otherwise it would just be a mockery of the literature and the English language. Its an interesting idea, and I could get behind sticking a poem or two [centred or something] but I'm not so sure about screenplay dialogue in place of proper grammatical sense...

It's an interesting conversation though!


----------



## Digital_Fey (Oct 6, 2011)

I think it depends on how subtly you combine the styles of prose, poetry and script. To use them without disrupting the reader, one might have to let flow into one another while maintaining the usual prose formatting. Which of the styles is dominant will depend on the pacing, tone, etc. of any particular scene. So for instance, you could have prose poetry for intense descriptions, or fast-paced, script-like dialogue with hardly any tags or description in between when you need some tension.  



> > I think it could be a neat idea, but would have to be executed very well for it to work right. It would definitely give one's writing a different look, sort of an experimental collage style with prose, poetry and play format dialogue stuff.
> 
> 
> A publisher certainly won't be fond of wacky formatting hybrids, and the 'different look' will be nonsensical.



You might get away with it if you can make it look artistically pretentious and confusing enough  Seriously though, I think a collage-style could work but you'd need to be an experienced writer who doesn't mind writing for a more esoteric audience.


----------



## Johnny Cosmo (Oct 6, 2011)

> You might get away with it if you can make it look artistically pretentious and confusing enough
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm still not sure, and I don't _really_ see the point. Yes, it would need an experienced writer to pull it off, but it would also need a very good reason (and I can't think of one, but then, I'm not an experienced writer).


----------



## JCFarnham (Oct 6, 2011)

What it comes down to is ...

While there are plenty of ARTISTIC reasons to try experimental things, to get it published [and successfully] would land you in the somewhat limited in size experimental crowd. Sure you may want this, but even IF the story was your typical High Fantasy it wouldn't necessarily ever make it into the crowd because of the formatting. 

It all depends whether you're okay with a few, intelligent people see your work, or many many normal people paying top price.

Of course I'm not saying sell out, but your market is always something to think about. What KIND of story would sell best to this KIND of person, regardless of formatting? If the answer is the formatting throws the book in the opposite direction to the target audience then something is probably wrong in there.


----------



## Xavorn (Oct 6, 2011)

Hello,

The thread title did blind me as well, I thought it was about genres, for which I would've commented for, but now that it turned out to be different types of writing...

Well first, to be honest, I have done this (combined story + poetry), but after I read that a couple of times over, it didn't combine very well together. The result was, that after the poetry the upcoming seems a bit repetitive - Of course I don't have that many opinions from people yet, but I really have to fix it up.

Now, personally, I could only think it working as a tiny detail part of the story; It shouldn't be something that takes too much attention.

-Xavorn


----------



## Johnny Cosmo (Oct 6, 2011)

> It all depends whether you're okay with a few, intelligent people see your work, or many many normal people paying top price.



I agree with JCFarnham, but would like to emphasise the point that you ought to have a well though out, intelligent experimental reason to match the intelligent and open crowd. Doing it for the sake of being unique is not enough.

Another point: I think it's fine to include poetry, but as in-universe poetry. I don't think it makes as much sense to suddenly switch prose out for poetry for setting scenes as the narrator. Emeria mentioned Tolkien using poetry, and yes he did, but they were lines that were sang, or chanted, or read by characters in the universe, or were otherwise poetry _from_ Middle Earth.


----------



## Metalfist (Oct 6, 2011)

Stephen King constantly adds poetry and song lyrics into his stories.... and he's been known to sell a few books. I always find myself having to "double back" and reread the poem or lyrics in order to grasp the relevance to the main story. It doesn't bother me as a reader if I can read the poem, think "aha, that was a clever tie-in" and then get on with the story again.


----------



## Shadoe (Oct 7, 2011)

Dialog written like a play in the middle of a prose work... Nope, I wouldn't like it. Not unless it was just for a small bit in the work, like taking a break to include a poem - and frankly, I tend to skip over those too. Dialog in a prose piece includes so much more than just words being said. There's movement and action, and breaking up the words with other pieces, to keep the rhythm going.


----------



## Benjamin Clayborne (Oct 7, 2011)

I've seen this a few times, e.g. a "transcript" of testimony in a court case during a courtroom scene. It's a very specific tool, though, and probably should not be used just for the sake of trying to be interesting.


----------



## KingArthur (Oct 7, 2011)

I've actually wriiten some scripture like excerpts in my fantasy novel called Nameless The exceprts were called Words of the Mother.
Mixing genres can actually enhance and define a world and make it real especially when the world is fantastically outrageous.


----------



## Gryffin (Oct 8, 2011)

Shadoe said:


> Dialog in a prose piece includes so much more than just words being said. There's movement and action, and breaking up the words with other pieces, to keep the rhythm going.



I agree with this completely. I don't like the idea of turning dialogue into more of a play format because it is jarring and breaks up the story. The reader would notice and get caught up with the change in format. 

As for including a poem or song or something like that, I think it's fine if it flows with the story and really fits in. If it distracts the reader from the story, it's probably not a good idea.


----------



## Ghost (Oct 8, 2011)

Benjamin Clayborne said:


> I've seen this a few times, e.g. a "transcript" of testimony in a court case during a courtroom scene. It's a very specific tool, though, and probably should not be used just for the sake of trying to be interesting.



I was reminded of this, too. If the character listens to something without any visuals, it makes sense. In a fantasy setting, perhaps it would be useful if a magician or witch plants listening devices for a living. I could also see this technique working if the viewpoint character never talks and doesn't see the speakers throughout the story. I'm thinking along the lines of a mute prisoner in an oubliette or something. Once he can see the people carrying a conversation, it gets tricky. Switching formats is too jarring, and it seems ridiculous to use the play format when he can see them.

If you add poetry in there as well, it starts feeling like a gimmick. If I'm looking at one medium, like a novel, then I want to stick with that medium. I get just as annoyed when I watch a movie that shows a lot of written text. It interrupts the flow for me. I don't mind poetry as an opening to a chapter. The writer gets to be indulgent, and I, and many other readers, get to ignore the poem and skip to the meat of the story.


----------



## KingArthur (Oct 8, 2011)

*agreed*

these tools are best used minimally in any case the story needs to be strong by itself


----------



## Lord Darkstorm (Oct 8, 2011)

I think for any publisher to consider it, the story would have to be really good, so good it overrode their concern for how the potential readers might react.  And if you can write that good, you probably wouldn't do it without some very solid reasons.


----------

