# Kindle Unlimited



## Devor (Jul 18, 2014)

Amazon has announced a new ebook subscription service.  You'd pay $9.99 a month for unlimited access to a huge number of books.

https://smile.amazon.com/Kindle-eBo...f_=ku_lp_jf_0&ref_=ku_lp_jf_0&startPlayback=1

What do people think of it?  Both as authors and as readers.


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## A. E. Lowan (Jul 19, 2014)

It's not all books.  Our little, tossed-out-there-on-a-lark, 9-page short story is one of their "600k Available Titles."

As an author, given that they so-far seem to count a book (or what not, I don't even know) as "read" at 10% I think is a good thing especially for authors who have works appearing in anthologies.  So far, that little bit is promising.

As a reader, it's not all books and it's just getting off the ground... so I'm not jumping in the pool just yet.


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## Philip Overby (Jul 19, 2014)

I don't read fast enough in order to pay 9.99 a month. It also looks like they're only choosing certain titles. It reminds me a little bit of that old service where you could get as many CDs as you wanted if you paid some kind of fee. I think it'll be a good idea, but I hope they include trad and indie stuff across multiple genres in order for it to be appealing to me.


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## psychotick (Jul 19, 2014)

Hi,

I'm still trying to work out how it's different from Amazon Prime.

Cheers, Greg.


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## wordwalker (Jul 19, 2014)

I don't think they're "choosing" titles for it, they're entering everything that's on the KDP Select plan. So for authors it's an escalation of the "to Select or not to Select" choice.


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## stephenspower (Jul 19, 2014)

it's pretty bare bones right now, but they're trying to compete with oyster and scribd before they get too much of a foothold. i would estimate that in 3-5 years time subscription revenue will be 25% of all book revenue, especially for genre titles. i also think that in order to maximize the number of titles that people read in a month to get the $10's worth, there will be a boom in shorter books, the agatha christie-length airplane reads that you can kill in 3 hours.


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## Graylorne (Jul 20, 2014)

It's what wordwalker says; as a self-publisher you must enroll in the KDP Select plan to be eligible.
I'd rather spread out. Now I'm at KDP and also at Smashwords with all its channels, including Oyster and Scribt. I'm not ready to give that up and 'sell' myself to Amazon.


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## A. E. Lowan (Jul 21, 2014)

Graylorne said:


> It's what wordwalker says; as a self-publisher you must enroll in the KDP Select plan to be eligible.
> I'd rather spread out. Now I'm at KDP and also at Smashwords with all its channels, including Oyster and Scribt. I'm not ready to give that up and 'sell' myself to Amazon.



Just a head's up, in case you haven't heard, but there's been some issues with Scribd and their practices in recent months.

Writer BewareÂ®: The Blog: Scribd's New Ebook Subscription Service: Partnering with Publishers, Profiting from Piracy


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## soggymuse (Jul 21, 2014)

Amazon is also apparently very shady: 



> "Amazon wants you to pay $140 for a glorified library card" - American Library Association





> "Kindle Unlimited offers nothing from big presses, and no guarantee the authors will get paid fairly for their work. Libraries buy the book up front for a higher price (and a better binding). Kindle Unlimited offers the authors a variable percentage of a as-yet-undetermined-and-unannounced amount of money.
> 
> While Amazon touts Kindle Unlimited at “Netflix For Books!” the reality is Netflix signed contracts with everyone whose work they offer so that actors, screen writers, best boys, and the rest of those people get paid for the shows and movies you watch. Amazon does not.
> 
> That means your favorite author isn’t being compensated for their time or work. If you love a book series and want to see the next one get published: buy the book or hit the library. Starving authors quit writing because they like eating." - britegreenstar



I don't know how accurate the latter is because I haven't looked at Kindle Unlimited myself, but I thought I'd pass it on so authors can double-check before signing up for a potentially damaging service.


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## PaulineMRoss (Jul 21, 2014)

soggymuse said:


> I don't know how accurate the latter is because I haven't looked at Kindle Unlimited myself, but I thought I'd pass it on so authors can double-check before signing up for a potentially damaging service.



I've been following the furore about KU over on the KBoards, where a lot of very astute self-publishers hang out. My impression is that folks who have good sales outside Amazon are incensed about KU, and folks who are already in are quietly pleased about it. That suggests that it's going to be a reasonable deal for (some) authors, at least in the short term. At the moment, there's a lot of volatility as readers sign up for the free month's trial and start downloading their maximum ten books, so sales are down and non-KU business is down, and rankings are shooting up and down. That will all settle down in two or three months.

The problem with it is an ideological one. When an author uploads a book for sale on Amazon, the author has full control over the price. With a subscription system, Amazon determines the return the author gets. Up to now, it's been reasonable (around $2 per borrow, pre-KU, and unknown for KU but likely to be similar). But in the future Amazon has the power and the right to vary that. Plus, you have to sign up exclusively to Amazon, which is restrictive.

I don't think it's the end of civilisation as we know it, but it'll be interesting to see how it all pans out.


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## MichaelSullivan (Jul 21, 2014)

So here's the big story about Kindle Unlimited.  It is the first time I've seen Amazon treat self-published authors as second class citizens, and I'm pissed about it.  Why do I say this.  Well consider how authors are in KU and paid.


Distribution - self-published athors have to be exclusive with Amazon. Traditionally published titles can be in KU and any other venue including Oyster and Scribd.
Payment - Self-published authors get a % of a poll set by Amazon. Traditional publisehd titles are paid as if a full sale were made...in both cases the reader has to read 10%.

Self-published authors should be outraged...but aren't. The reality is Amazon is giving them a short shift because they will "take it."  Traditional publishers would NEVER go into KU with the terms that self-published authors are submitting to. Bottom line...self published authors are subsidizing the better terms that traditional is getting.


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## stephenspower (Jul 21, 2014)

I agree with you, Michael, that self-published authors are getting shafted. KU is clearly an attempt to get in front, however, awkwardly the coming rise in streaming books. Oyster and Scribd are just the vanguard. No one, would join, though, if it were just self-pubd authors, so Amazon has to negotiate favorably with traditional publishers. It will be intersting to see how the Oysters pick up the slack with self-pubd authors, perhaps by picking up some of the biggest (if they haven't already).


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## MichaelSullivan (Jul 21, 2014)

There are plenty of Self-published authors all ready on Oyster and Scribd.  It's only those that are in KU (which requires exclusivity) that can't be on those platforms.  Normally they do so through smashwords or Direct2Digital.


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## Snowpoint (Jul 22, 2014)

I have never bought an e-book, or a self published book. I'm looking at this and thinking: "I'm not willing to pay $3 for book that might be bad, but maybe I am willing to pay $10 to scope out few dozen authors and find some I like."

I'm not exactly part of the e-book demographic, but I think this might turn people who are normally unwilling to try e-books (me) into someone willing to give them a shot.


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## stephenspower (Jul 22, 2014)

Check this out: Kindle Unlimited "Bestseller" List Encourages Exclusivity, Works Against Independence

I'm not sure you need a subscription to read it, but here's the upshot:



> A Monday night check of Amazon's Kindle Bestseller list reinforces what we found in our Monday morning post: Kindle Unlimited looks to be having a significant effect on the etailer's hourly bestseller list, since KU checkouts are being counted as "sales" for bestseller rank purposes.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


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## Trick (Jul 22, 2014)

Apparently Amazon wasn't making enough money already. I was looking forward to publishing on kindle and now I'm far more leery. I may avoid it altogether now.


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## Chessie (Jul 22, 2014)

I do love my Kindle and read on it regularly. But I won't be getting the KU. Its a great idea for readers but it does seem unfair to authors who have their works on the listing. At least authors are being given a choice to sign up for it or not. It will be interesting to see how this all develops over the next few months, but I will say its disappointing to see Amazon sell their books for pennies. Writing is hard work and authors should receive appreciation for the stories they share with the world. I say no bueno, Amazon.


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## Steerpike (Jul 22, 2014)

Authors don't have to take part in KU just because they're selling on Amazon, however. If you're self-published you have to be part of Kindle Select, right? So just don't sign up for that.


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## Mythopoet (Jul 23, 2014)

There's some interesting analysis of Kindle Unlimited from super star indie author Hugh Howey on his website. Of particular note, the first comment on the post has this to say:



> As a “small” indie author, this change is awesome. In the 4 days that we’ve had KU, my borrows have QUADRUPLED, which in turn has raise my sales rank, which in turn has lead to more full price sales as well. I roughly expect that KU is going to push my earnings up 50% or more per month.



We certainly live in interesting times.


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## Devor (Jul 23, 2014)

The first thing that occurred to me when I saw the announcement for KU was that it targets the same audience subset that self-publishers do.  People who read a lot, people who take risks with their reading, people who explore things out of the norm.  This is going to make it easier for them to do that.

It cuts some of the risks involved for readers. I think it's going to be good for the industry.


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## psychotick (Jul 23, 2014)

Hi,

Yeah, actually my borrows just doubled too. But the records don't tell me whether thats KU or Prime in action. And anyway, borrows have always been a minor part of my sales. Might get a few extra cups of coffee at the Robert Harris, but won't be booking holiay flights to go with on it!

Cheers, Greg.


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## MichaelSullivan (Jul 23, 2014)

Steerpike said:


> Authors don't have to take part in KU just because they're selling on Amazon, however. If you're self-published you have to be part of Kindle Select, right? So just don't sign up for that.



You are correct if you choose Select you are in KU...but you don't have to.


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## MichaelSullivan (Jul 23, 2014)

Mythopoet said:


> There's some interesting analysis of Kindle Unlimited from super star indie author Hugh Howey on his website. Of particular note, the first comment on the post has this to say:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Posts like this drive me crazy.  If you had 2 borrows and you QUADRUPLED to 8 titles  that is a much different situation than going from 200 to 800.  And earnings going form $30 to $45 is a 50% increase but again - who cares.  Give me numbers that mean something and I "MIGHT" be interested but not when reported this way.


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## MichaelSullivan (Jul 23, 2014)

For what is worth, here is my article on Digital Book World regarding KU.


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## Steerpike (Jul 23, 2014)

MichaelSullivan said:


> Posts like this drive me crazy.  If you had 2 borrows and you QUADRUPLED to 8 titles  that is a much different situation than going from 200 to 800.  And earnings going form $30 to $45 is a 50% increase but again - who cares.  Give me numbers that mean something and I "MIGHT" be interested but not when reported this way.



Although Howey himself says that his own borrows have tripled (in his response to that comment). Given that Howey was at one point was selling something like 20,000 to 30,000 books per month, my guess is we're talking a substantial number of books of his. But since Howey is now established, you can't really extrapolate from his experience to that of an unknown author. If the first commenter wasn't getting hardly any borrows before, then you're right that quadrupling it doesn't say a whole lot!


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## MichaelSullivan (Jul 23, 2014)

Steerpike said:


> Although Howey himself says that his own borrows have tripled (in his response to that comment). Given that Howey was at one point was selling something like 20,000 to 30,000 books per month, my guess is we're talking a substantial number of books of his. But since Howey is now established, you can't really extrapolate from his experience to that of an unknown author. If the first commenter wasn't getting hardly any borrows before, then you're right that quadrupling it doesn't say a whole lot!



Yeah but Hugh's book was a "Featured" title - and splashed all over the front page of KU.  Of course his sales went up .... but I doubt the other person had such premium placement. We agree that you can't compare these two author's experiences.


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## Devor (Jul 23, 2014)

It's still early to know what the sales impact is.  I mean, every last user of KU is still on their free trial. Even if it takes off, it would cannibalize normal sales. I'm pretty optimistic, but there's a lot that this might shake up, and a lot of dust to settle.


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## MichaelSullivan (Jul 24, 2014)

Devor said:


> It's still early to know what the sales impact is.  I mean, every last user of KU is still on their free trial. Even if it takes off, it would cannibalize normal sales. I'm pretty optimistic, but there's a lot that this might shake up, and a lot of dust to settle.



Agreed we won't know the true affect for several months.


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## psychotick (Jul 24, 2014)

Hi,

Well here's a strange curve ball in the KU debate. I just published a shorty - 6000 words, figuring it's better to be finished and out of my hair then malingering on my computer as I change one word in it every week. But that's by the by. Since it's so short I put it at 0.99c. I also put it in Select and allowed borrowing. That means it's in KU.

Now look at the returns to me. If I sell a copy of The Session, it gains Amazon 64c and I get a wopping 35c. If on the other hand someone borrows it in KU, Amazon gets whatever they get and I get around $2.

I love these economics!

Cheers, Greg.


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## MichaelSullivan (Jul 25, 2014)

psychotick said:


> Hi,
> 
> Well here's a strange curve ball in the KU debate. I just published a shorty - 6000 words, figuring it's better to be finished and out of my hair then malingering on my computer as I change one word in it every week. But that's by the by. Since it's so short I put it at 0.99c. I also put it in Select and allowed borrowing. That means it's in KU.
> 
> ...



Yep for low-priced works a borrow is actually better than the "full payout."  I think you'll see a lot more shorts and serials in KU.


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## stephenspower (Jul 30, 2014)

Amazon's post on pricing, full of claims, but no underlying data:



> The important thing to note here is that at the lower price, total revenue increases 16%. This is good for all the parties involved:
> 
> *    The customer is paying 33% less.
> 
> ...


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## Devor (Jul 30, 2014)

Stephenspower, we have a policy against extensive quoting from offsite sources. It gets read as "duplicate content" by search engines. I've cut the quote to what seemed like the gist of it, although even that is somewhat long. Please bear that in mind for the future.


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## stephenspower (Jul 30, 2014)

Fair point. I thought since it was essentially a press release that I could put the whole thing.


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## psychotick (Jul 30, 2014)

Hi,

Stephen this is just Amazon's argument with Hachette being put out as a press release. I'm not sure why since the court battle doesn't really involve us as authors. We're just the road kill staked out in the arena while the two monster trucks of publishing duel it out.

Personally as an indie I don't charge either $14.99 or $9.99 for a novel. My price point is $3.99 for a novel. My thought is that Amazon's right on this, there is price elasticity at these higher prices and there's not a huge justification for having ebook prices so high. And as for the 30% I get 70%. To get the same royalty per sale at only 30% my book would have to be priced at $9.31. At that price I would absolutely expect to lose sales and have increased returns, neither of which is good for me.

But, and I would stress this, the price elasticity is going to occur at only two parts in the distribution. At the dearer end where book price becomes significant to readers - say above 5 or 6 dollars or in the free zone where readers will download anything simply on the off chance that it might be okay. In the middle it will be far less important, and in fact there are actually sweet spots according to some. Smashwords did a survey and found that $3.99 was one such point - hence the reason I use it.

Cheers Greg.


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## Trick (Jul 30, 2014)

psychotick said:


> My thought is that Amazon's right on this, there is price elasticity at these higher prices and there's not a huge justification for having ebook prices so high.



I definitely agree that amazon chose a good price range for the 70% because they have teams of analysts and number crunchers who figure these things out. I would still use Amazon without joining Select but if they make KU mandatory for certain prices (which I think will happen) I wouldn't be surprised if it was for those of us between $2.99 and $7.99, negating the 70% very quickly. Could an author make more on KU? Sure. Will they if they're a relatively unknown self pub? I think not. 

I will add that 90 day exclusivity is not that bad. It's almost like testing the market. Once it's up, one could spread their work around with sales numbers from Amazon if they were impressive. It's not Select that seems to be the issue, it's just KU. Since they go hand in hand, I'm leery of taking part.


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## stephenspower (Jul 30, 2014)

Here's John Scalzi's excellent response to Amazon's post, wherein he shows that Amazon's post only makes sense if (1) the only thing publishers sell is ebooks through Amazon and (2) all books are interchangeable.

@Trick, yes Amazon has teams of analysts to derive their numbers, but just like in math class they should show their work so we can see the underlying data and assumptions, which likely favor their business model, not objective reality. Their "facts" shouldn't be blindly accepted. That investors have been blindly accepting their data-free quarterly reports for decades is no reason anyone else should.


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## psychotick (Jul 31, 2014)

Hi Trick,

I don't see Amazon making KU (and thus Select) compulsary at any stage. Not even for books in certain price ranges. It would be seen as an anti-competitive practice, and while I'm sure they'd love to do it, the law suits from the other publishers would likely be horrendous. They could well get slapped down hard.

And Stephen I agree, it would be damned nice to see Amazon's data. But the reality is that they aren't going to show it any more than they're going to let us see their algorythm. It's a business advantage to them like a certain chicken cooker's secret recipe. They'll keep it secret.

Cheers, Greg.


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## Trick (Jul 31, 2014)

@stephenspower. I have no intention of accepting Amazon's numbers without knowing the conclusions favor Amazon most of all. We live in a capitalist society, which I favor. I heard, so clearly it's not fact,  that Amazon has never claimed a taxable profit. it's believable based in their practices. I don't love Amazon by any means. I just think their resources might benefit me if properly used.


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## stephenspower (Jul 31, 2014)

@Trick, yes, that's true re partnering with them.


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## Trick (Jul 31, 2014)

@psychotick, I don't think KU would be mandatory for Trad publishers or big name self-pubs. Just for the little guys. It's already quite uneven with the separate pool and random payment. KU is mandatory for Select users. Amazon could just say that the "benefits" of Select now extend to all small time self-pubs. They are not the most above-board company. Don't get me wrong, they are not evil, in my opinion, they are just out for themselves and ignore certain morals of doing business. I've heard it said that business needs no morals but anyone who's ever been screwed over by a big company has to know that is simply not true.


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## psychotick (Aug 1, 2014)

Hi Trick,

I think you're getting things a little confused. KU is simply a part of Select. If your book is in Select it's in KU automatically. Therefore if you think that KU would become mandatory for some indies, what you're really saying is that Amazon would require some indies to either put their books in Select or not publish them at all with Amazon. As for the trade published their books cannot be in KU because according to the rules they cannot be in Select since a trade published book is by definition published elsewhere.

Again I don't see that happening. First it's damn near impossible to determine which books fit into the requirement for Select based on sales numbers as in your scenario when you're often talking about books that haven't yet been published and so have no sales numbers. Second since a book can only be published in Select if it is not published anywhere else this would amount to an anti-competitive practice. And as Amazon's share of the ebook market nearly amounts to market dominance the regulatory agencies would become very upset.

Cheers, Greg.


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## Trick (Aug 1, 2014)

@psychotick, we can agree to disagree. If KU proves effective at moving the work of no name authors, Amazon will want that to apply to all no name authors. Select only requires exclusivity for 90 days at a time. Since Amazon corners the market on ebooks, plenty of newbs will be willing to accept temporary exclusivity to see how well their book does. All I'm saying is that I think new arrivals will eventually be automatically enrolled in Select for the first 90 days. If they don't sell well enough through KU, which is a great deal for customers if not for self-pubs, Amazon may give them a lower maximum price outside Select and KU. 

The only other thing I'll say is that you may be underestimating the power of the American Corporation. Regulatory agencies are governmental and thus slow moving. If they oppose Amazon's practices it will take years to resolve and I'd bet on Amazon to take the win even if they have to concede on some details. It's happened before.


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## psychotick (Aug 1, 2014)

Hi Trick,

If KU proves effective at moving books I'll move more of my books into Select to take advantage of it. However it likely won't. KU is an advantage to Amazon first and foremost since it allows them to sign up customers.

Also KU is not necessarily a bad thing for authors. As I said before my 0.99c book if it's borrowed on KU returns around $2 to me as an author, but only 0.35c if it's sold.

And as for your regulatory agencies being slow - maybe. But they have teeth. Microsoft got basically broken into four companies because they looked like becoming a monopoly company. I don't think Amazon wants that to happen, and they are far and away the dominant company in the ebook sector. Becoming more so as they buy up other publishers. Add some anti-competitive practices to their CV and they paint a bulls eye on their own back.

Cheers, Greg.


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