# Writing the Ideal...Magic-User



## Philip Overby (Jun 15, 2013)

So I'm continuing this "series" of questions to get insight in to how members feel about their ideal versions of certain types of characters. First I asked about barbarians, so now I'm turning the focus to the opposite end of the spectrum: magic-users. This includes wizards, withes, witchers, mages, hybrid spell-casters, necromancers, pyromancers, etc. etc.

In the most basic terms a magic-user would be a character that uses magic. But how they use magic or how the writer incorporates magic into their world is important. Magic is often tied into fantasy worlds, sometimes in vast quantities (Lord of the Rings, epic fantasy) and other times in low quantities (sword and sorcery, low fantasy, some urban fantasy.) 

My ideal magic-user:

1. I would say Geralt of Rivia (from the Witcher series of books/games) is my ideal magic-using character because he's a hybrid that uses his magic sparingly. I've always been a fan of characters who only use magic as a last resort instead of just hurling fireballs all over the place. His magic has a lot to do with charming and manipulating, which I find to be an interesting take. He also feels like a Jedi in some ways. He uses his magic at time when hunting monsters and with humans alike. A close second would be Quick Ben from the Malazan series, just because of how incredibly powerful he is. People are afraid of him, and I find that a quality in a magic-user that adds an aura to them. 

2. If I were creating a magic-user character, I'd want them to be unique in some way. Using magic that may not be embraced so readily by readers. I've always been interested in the idea of magicians that only have one spell. For some reason I find that fascinating. If they only have one spell, then they have to be very creative how they use it. It's almost like X-Men mutant powers (they only have the one power usually). How they use it is what makes them unique.

3. I would absolutely want to include a magic-user character as one of my main characters. In fact, I have several magic-using characters as main characters in various things I've written. I want to approach magic in a different way though. Not entirely unique, but just not a standard lightning bolt slinging wizard on the top of a mountain. If I have a character that's a lightning bolt slinging wizard, then he needs something else to give him more depth. Maybe he really, really likes bunnies.

So what are your thoughts? 

1. How would you write your ideal magic-user character?

2. What writer/writers do you think have done the magic-user character well?

3. Would you make a magic-user character a main character in your story/novel? Why or why not?


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## ThinkerX (Jun 16, 2013)

> 1. How would you write your ideal magic-user character?



I prefer mages with at least quasi phausible powers.  Hence 'magic' in my world is actually 'enchanced PSI' abilities.  At least mostly.  This makes my wizards wimps compared to most others.  

The other thing is, magicians tend to get treated as souless artillery pieces: kill a few thousand people with barely a pang of concience.  Most of my wizards (and other characters) lack that sense of brutality.  Some may not be altogether honest and upstanding, or may come across as remote, but they don't just casually shrug off large scale killing...or even small scale killing.



> 2. What writer/writers do you think have done the magic-user character well?



Quite a few.  Ged in LeGuins 'Wizard of EarthSea' remains a source of inspiration to me.  Pug, Kulgan, and Nakor in Fiests 'Rift War' series are pretty dang good, in differing ways.  I also liked Kerr's Neyvin in her 'Deverry' series.  The ones that come closest to my own - which I didn't find out about until recently, though the books have been out for decades - are Kurtz's Deryni mages.  Our reasoning followed very similiar paths.   




> 3. Would you make a magic-user character a main character in your story/novel? Why or why not?



Already done that, here on this site.  Toki is a mage/thief, with a mile wide streak of foolishness.  Lysander is a 'wizard with personal issues' on the other side of the world from Toki.

I've also got a powerful mage character in 'Labyrinth'.  A mage is a central character in 'Shadow Sea'.  And so on.


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## Feo Takahari (Jun 16, 2013)

I see several different types you can work with:

The scholar, whose power comes from knowledge. This is often a "rationalist" whose brand of rationality just happens to include one more natural force than we're used to. The key to this type is _curiosity_--the scholar genuinely enjoys learning about magic, rather than just using it as a route to power.

The gifted, whose magic comes from within. These are easily the most variable type, ranging from power-hungry maniacs to self-hating outcasts, depending on how they regard their powers and on how their powers are treated by society. The key is to this type is _alienation_--in one way or another, this person knows he or she isn't like everyone else, and reacts to that fact. (This model doesn't apply if everyone has magic, but that's such a variable situation that there's no one model for it.)

The ritualist, whose magic is a gift or a bargain. These divide roughly in half between devoted disciples, who further the cause of their patron, and would-be Judases, whose ultimate goal is to become the one pulling the strings. The key to this type is _indebtedness_--the ritualist is presented with a subservient role, and chooses to accept or reject it.

Most of my writing that has positively portrayed magical characters deals with the gifted type, specifically someone who's just weird enough to feel like an outsider, but not weird enough to really benefit from his or her abilities. However, I wouldn't argue that this is better or worse than any other approach. 

I've never thought about the concept of a "well-written magic user" before--to me, they've just been well-written characters. Still, I'm pretty fond of Terra in _Final Fantasy VI_. She's the first discovered human in her setting with inherent magical powers, and she's been used as a walking weapon since infancy. She starts out emotionally deadened, vaguely longing for something she doesn't really understand. Not until very late in the game does she find what she's looking for, and even then, she doesn't initially recognize what she's found. It's a surprisingly well-paced transition, and it ends in a rather fitting way.


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## Ophiucha (Jun 16, 2013)

1. I like magic that is intrinsic to the setting, so my magic user characters - if they exist at all - are often _all_ of the characters in the novel. Sometimes magic is powerful, sometimes it is weak, but I very rarely have a standard fantasy party with a swordsman, an archer, and a mage - rather, three mages who may or may not also use a sword or a bow. I couldn't say there is anything else that links how I write my magic users, though. They're just characters.

2. Judah Low, from _Iron Council_, is a favourite of mine - I mean, golems are awesome, so a guy who just makes a bunch of golems out of anything and everything is doubly awesome. Onyesonwu, from Nnedi Okorafor's _Who Fears Death_ definitely deserves a mention, as well, less for how badass she is and more for how she interacts with magic and uses it. Her story has a deep tie to her magic, and I appreciate that - often magic is little more than a gun or a sword to the character, a weapon and a convenience, but Okorafor has a way of making magic a lot more powerful and important than that.

3. Yes, and I have. The main character of a novella I have for my 'soundworld' project basically sews magic into her skin and it just sort of... resonates out of her. (Since in this world, magic = sounds, she basically just tattoos a song onto her back and she is just always surrounded by a hint of music that subtly influences the world around her.) The short stories in the same setting all have magic users as protagonists, too, except one about a little deaf girl that was written explicitly to address the oddity of a non-magic user in the setting.


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## Devor (Jun 16, 2013)

I find myself moving away from the typical do-anything wizard when it comes to magic.  I tried to think about how a wizard would follow through, and when I considered the enchantments and magic items they would leave all over the place, the "random magic item" vanished pretty quickly.  I think wizards would show a lot more care and ambition in what they did with their magic, like try and give every blacksmith a magic forge.  I'd like to see more follow through from authors in what their wizards have done over time to the setting, and not just lace the world with magic that feels random.

In the setting I'm working with, there are two subtle magic systems, and a third which is broken and will never get fixed.  They require a lifetime of skill and training to build up your magic over time, so ten "serving traditions" have been established to use these subtle magic systems to benefit the world, as well as a huge number of combat strategies built around the magic systems.  There are also a dozen or so powerful artifacts put into the world by the gods, and a substance which I use as a trigger word to _imply_ magic whenever I want an effect that otherwise wouldn't work.  And the gods are real, and even though they aren't presently active, there are a lot of ways in which their activity can be felt in the story.

That gives me a lot of room in how I want to use magic users.  I can have characters from the serving traditions show off their abilities to, say, determine when someone is lying or what kind of person they are.  Or I can have a character come through with a powerful item of the gods, ransacking the countryside.  I can have characters use awesome weapons based on the substance they're made from, and I can have a character be all powerful because he's a god in disguise.  All of those give me a lot of flexibility without quite the deus ex of solving a problem with a spell that's brand new to the readers.


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## Chessie (Jun 16, 2013)

I like the idea of magic users as scholars who devote their lives to furthering their craft. But when working with magic, there's always a cost (and I'm not talking about mana points here). I have one mage in my story but she's more of an intellect. She lives in isolation with her family, does research, and tries out the things she learns about her craft on the peasants in the area. Throughout the course of the story, she does a couple magical acts, one of which is tied to a tonic she's created. So I suppose she's also an inventor or sorts. I love magic in fantasies but its nice when its left mysterious somehow. Less is more here. My magic user is the villain in the story because she has money, power and time to focus on magical studies. The mc is an alchemist, still magical but more down to earth.

I read a novel once about a young magi who had a hard time controlling/learning about her powers. She feared them. It was interesting to see her development. She matured into her powers but still made some shady decisions with it. I liked that story because it showed a huge amount of human error...magic as a honing craft like anything else.


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## Ireth (Jun 16, 2013)

Agreed about trial-and-error being interesting with magic. One of my favorite RPing characters is a mage with the ability to work magic through song, which is quite powerful but so rare he can't find anyone to teach him, or even any books on the subject. So he pretty much has to learn by doing, often with interesting consequences. If he's not _very_ careful with both his words and intent, strange and sometimes bad things can happen. Like accidentally turning an injured Fae into a human while trying to bring him back from the brink of death (and healing him in the process, but that was more of a side-effect even though it was what he was actually aiming for). Needless to say, he learned quickly from THAT mistake. ^^;


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## Saigonnus (Jun 16, 2013)

1. I always found the notion of a physically weak mage ridiculous (even gandalf was known to use a sword) so I tend to give them not only abilities to use magic, but SOME physical capabilities as well, so they can't get killed instantly by a farmwife with a breadknife. I use two forms of magic-users: Druids and Transmuters, both with similar capabilties and "spells" based around the cultures they come from more than a difference in how they do what they do. 

2. I liked Zedd from the Sword of Truth Series (even though he was physically weak)

3. My main character IS a magic-user of sorts. Initially he is a moderately skilled warrior, but "inherits" the ability to use magic from the Goddess of my world; who must give it up or it will be subverted.


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## Creed (Jun 16, 2013)

1. My ideal magic user would have to be limited and weak, but that's not the way to make a Mage character unless you're doing it for the sake of them being weak. They're a mage. They have to be capable in SOME way. So I'd want to have a suitably complex character who has weaknesses and such, but they also MUST have awesome moments.
2. I definitely agree that Geralt is a good choice (I've played the games but I've only read the first two books- I'd love to read more!). Quick Ben was pretty cool, too, but I'd have to tie him with Bottle as far as Malazan goes, just for Bottle's personality and the way he uses the warrens.
My all time favourite sorcerer character would be Achamian from the Prince of Nothing series. Due to the stigma against sorcery he rarely EVER uses his magic- it made me feel like he was lacking, but then in book two (The Warrior Prophet)… well, he most certainly gave me shivers up my spine. Not only was he an absolutely amazing character, full of depth and wisdom, but he could also be completely awesome. For a Steven Erikson fan (or anybody else, for that matter) I would recommend The Prince of Nothing.
3. I most certainly have a few mages in my cast. Some of them are magic-centric, and rely on it. Some are the opposite, and have magic as an added bonus for them.
I am most proud of my mage Astrid, who lives in a world where all magic users are slaughtered in the name of the Almighty. She however, has been "saved" by the Church to work as one of the Penitent- political and military tools that the Church keeps very secret. Astrid learns to hate herself and the Blasphemy within her, however she grows in different ways through the story. She meets another mage from another world, and he tries convincing her that their gift is beautiful. His name is Fevys and he falls in love with her. It's a sad story, but one that I enjoy writing.


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## Nameback (Jun 17, 2013)

1. I'm not sure who my favorite magic users would be--Quick Ben is definitely one of my favorites, for the reasons you mentioned, plus his personality. I like wily characters who use their wits as much as their magic/sword/whatever. Honestly, for me, I think a lot of my favorite 'magic-users' aren't traditionally labeled as such--they're superheroes. 

I mean, really, is Cyclops or Superman really that different from a mage? Of course, there's a big difference in how they're portrayed, given that superheroes are usually physically tough and skilled in combat, but I tend to think that their powers are essentially indistinguishable from magic. Among superheroes, I like Swamp Thing, Green Lantern, Silver Surfer, pretty much all the Guardians of the Galaxy, and countless X-men. I've always enjoyed the 'cosmic' aspects of the Marvel and DC universes--dealing with threats like Galactus or the Anti-Monitor are exciting to me, because their stories are on such a massive scale. 

Other magic users I like include Bigby, the Big Bad Wolf; Roy Mustang; Shinji Ikari, T1000, Aang the Avatar; Jake the Dog.

2. This of course brings us to your second point, which indeed mentions the X-men. In my WIP, mages don't cast spells, but rather endow themselves with, essentially, super-powers. Basically, a mage comes up with an ability they desire and then endows him or herself with said ability through a ritual process. Of course, this process requires fuel--in this case, potential. Everything in the universe contains some measure of potential--of possibilities, abilities, probabilities--and a mage must extract potential from these things, take into themselves, and then shape, or 'weave' it. Usually, extraction involves destruction of the object in question. Of course, few things have more potential than sapient beings--indeed, sapient beings are orders of magnitude greater repositories of potential than almost anything else. Thus, to become a great mage, one must inevitably pay for their powers with the blood of others.

Anyway, most mages don't have access to a ready supply of people they would be allowed to kill--great mages are generally either warriors who siphon the potential of their slain enemies, or high-ranking political and religious leaders who use the mechanisms of the state (such as executions of criminals) to supply themselves with new potential. So most mages have rather simple, practical powers that become a sort of profession. For example, a rural person with access to an apprenticeship under a mage might learn the basic tenants of weaving 'erani' (powers), and then engage in a large ritualistic animal sacrifice--perhaps from their own farm, or after purchasing animals from someone else. The mage would have given themselves a useful power, such as being able to kill pests that damage crops; or adding moisture to soil in dry times; or best of all, fertilizing crops to increase yield. The mage then sells their magical skills to the farmers in their village. Most mages are more on this scale--mundane powers that are useful and not glitzy. 

A battle-mage, however, might be able to transform into a massive demon, or fly, or breathe fire. One of my POV characters is a high-ranking member of a fire-goddess cult, in which the leaders of the cult embody different aspects of fire. My POV character is known as Agatahna Burn, and is capable of super-heating his body almost instantly, and is himself impervious to heat. He prefers to fight hand-to-hand, because when he touches someone, he can burn them severely. Hold on long enough, and he can boil them from the inside out. He can melt steel with a touch, or heat bubbles of gas trapped in concrete and porous stone fast enough to cause an explosion. There are ten leaders of the fire-cult: Fend, Shine, Blast, Burn, Raze, Choke, Dance, Blind, Roar, and Sow. You can imagine their various powers.

However, since attaining such a power requires massive investment, most powerful mages specialize in one power or one area of power, and hone their skill with it. This limits them, despite the fact that they can be hugely powerful. For example, being able to make your skin as hard as steel won't protect your internal organs if you fall from a cliff. And being able to fly might not be very useful if there are dragons prowling the skies.

3. Almost all of my POV characters are magical. Their power varies hugely, from an apprentice historian who can speed-read and light up dark rooms, to a demigod who can blast the tops off of mountains.


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## psychotick (Jun 17, 2013)

Hi,

I've written a number of different types of magic users, some pubbed some not, and I don't really have a fave. One I made a simple caster with only a few powers, but then reworked one of them so he literally became a one man army. He could just keep raising elementals and send them out as an army. Useful when you've got a war to fight. 

Another has only weak spells. In his world magic is a balance always between power and control, and the more power you have the less you can control it. The challenge then is to make him useful with very highly controlled but relatively minor magics in a world, actually our world, where there are other far more powerful casters.

And currently I'm writing a magic user in a steampunk fantasy who's a technologist with a spark of magic. But his magic is weak and he has only one domain, fire. The fun part is shaping his magic so it fits with his technology.

And yeah as for faves, yeah someone mentioned Ged in Earthsea, and I do love the character. I love the entire idea of magic being based on the knowlege of a true name. But I could never write that scenario because I see magic as more an innate thing. Not spells and wands but rather will and knowledge. 

Gandalf of course I love, but I constantly found myself confused by his magic. How much he had, what he could do with it, and why as someone pointed out recently, if he can summon eagles, couldn't he just fly Frodo and the ring to the mountain and drop the ring in then and there. Of course the story would have been very short.

Cheers, Greg.


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## Ireth (Jun 17, 2013)

psychotick said:


> if he can summon eagles, couldn't he just fly Frodo and the ring to the mountain and drop the ring in then and there.



There's a very valid in-story reason why that would never have worked. The Nazgul's winged steeds would have ripped the birds to shreds, killed Frodo and reclaimed the Ring. The eagles wanted nothing to do with Mordor, and only really got involved after the Ring was destroyed, at the tail-end of the battle at the Black Gate and to bring Frodo and Sam out of danger. The eagles are the obvious choice, and thus the most likely thing Sauron would have anticipated. Nobody expected Frodo and Sam to succeed by simply walking into Mordor, which is exactly why it worked.


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## Mythopoet (Jun 17, 2013)

psychotick said:


> Gandalf of course I love, but I constantly found myself confused by his magic. How much he had, what he could do with it, and why as someone pointed out recently, if he can summon eagles, couldn't he just fly Frodo and the ring to the mountain and drop the ring in then and there. Of course the story would have been very short.
> 
> Cheers, Greg.



No, he can't summon eagles. Because the Great Eagles are sentient demi-gods of much the same order as Gandalf himself. They serve Manwe (the greatest of the gods of Middle-earth) himself and generally serve as passive role in Middle-earth as his eyes and ears. They sometimes choose to help Gandalf but since the entire point of Frodo's journey into Mordor was to do it secretly so that Sauron didn't know where the Ring was or what they were doing with it, riding giant eagles into Sauron's own country would have been disastrous.


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## wordwalker (Jun 17, 2013)

Remember, _LOTR - (Nazgul air force) = 5-page book_ 

As for Gandalf's power being confusing, it's certainly true. Mostly it's Tolkien not having a consistent plan for how strong or willing Gandalf might be to use his powers (including giving him a couple in _The Hobbit_ that weren't good for a more epic tale-- there's a true fireball in there), and of course the classic paradox of the how to teach the world to fix itself without him zapping away its problems. Earthsea has plenty of that too, the way Ged talks about not interfering with the Pattern.

But I also think you could justify a lot of Gandalf's reluctance, or simulate it in other stories, with one idea: maybe a world's wizards have a very limited, slowly-rebuilding supply of magic. Most games let a wizard replace all his energy in about a day, or maybe a minute or two; stories might make it take a little longer. But what if throwing one fireball used up your power for a _week_ or a month, how careful would you be to wait until you were actually luring a full-sized Balrog over a thin, shatterable bridge before you were desperate enough to uncork it...

It's one part of how magic works in the world. If a mage can blast at will, you'll get constant Xbox-ish battles. If magic is strong but limited in use --or the wizard is afraid of solving everyone's problems-- it gets whole new complications just for those reasons. (And it matters if they actually _can_ take weeks on the road between the bigger challenges, so the wizard becomes a little more willing to do something dazzling. Maybe.)


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## Addison (Jun 17, 2013)

1. My magic-user character would use their magic in a way that either ties into who they are or is opposite, like a release for the part of them that doesn't get out very much. Magic does not come easily in any world. If it does then there's got to be a catch somewhere. 

2. J.K Rowling did it very well. Each character's skill with magic tied in to their character. Hermione was the smart one who knew the books by heart so it's impossible to "think of a spell our Hermione can't do." (Hagrid, CoS) Harry faced great evil as a toddler and lived and was prophecised to take down Voldemort. (Also living with a family like the Dursleys kind of helped.) so it makes sense that he's top in Defense Against the Dark Arts. Ron, the magic-born and raised goof is average with the abilities yet is happy to use it as an easy way out, or at least quick to go for the wand rather than talking or fists. (I'm referring to the slug-belching incident)  Others who did this well are Terry Brooks in his Discworld stories and Mercedes Lackey in the Tales from the Hundred Kingdoms stories. 

3. The main character in my story is a magic-user. It just fits. As an exercise I'm trying to write him as magic-less. But he's a magic user primarily to help with the story and himself. His father was a magic-user (I call them Casters) so he hopes his journey as a Caster will lead him to learn more about his father.


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## Ireth (Jun 17, 2013)

Addison said:


> Terry Brooks in his Discworld stories



Do you mean Terry Pratchett's Discworld, or Terry Brooks' something else? *isn't familiar with the latter's books*


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## Weaver (Jun 17, 2013)

Saigonnus said:


> 1. I always found the notion of a physically weak mage ridiculous (even gandalf was known to use a sword) so I tend to give them not only abilities to use magic, but SOME physical capabilities as well, so they can't get killed instantly by a farmwife with a breadknife.



Physically weak magic-users:  a variation on the "geniuses are ugly and scrawny because life is fair" myth.  Even when used in the name of "game balance," it's a silly notion, and it definitely doesn't make sense in novels.  I'd like to see more fantasy stories where magic _requires_ the user to be physically fit because working magic is strenuous and an out-of-shape mage is likely to die in the middle of a spell.

(Good example of a magic-using character who is also good with mundane combat, etc., and for good reason:  Sun Wolf, from Barbara Hambly's novel _The Dark Hand of Magic _.)


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## psychotick (Jun 18, 2013)

Hi Ireth,

Slight aside from the OP. Maybe I'm confusing the films and books but didn't the eagles get involved before the ring was destroyed at the final battle. Tearing the Nazgul's winged steeds apart while the army was there diverting attention from Frodo's final bit of his journey?

Cheers, Greg.


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## Ireth (Jun 18, 2013)

psychotick said:


> Hi Ireth,
> 
> Slight aside from the OP. Maybe I'm confusing the films and books but didn't the eagles get involved before the ring was destroyed at the final battle. Tearing the Nazgul's winged steeds apart while the army was there diverting attention from Frodo's final bit of his journey?
> 
> Cheers, Greg.



Yes, I mentioned that in my post. They did get involved toward the end of the battle at the Black Gate.


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## Jess A (Jun 18, 2013)

I'll have to return to this conversation as I know I have many favourites, many of which have been mentioned above. I just can't think right now.

But one that comes to mind is an entire race - Sara Douglass's _Axis Trilogy_ books. Her winged people, the Icarii, use music and the rhythm of the stars - the Star Dance - to create magic. As a musician myself I have always found this fascinating and thrilling to read. They listen to and feel the Star Dance and sing to create magic. It has been a while since I read the series, so hopefully I described it correctly. If I remember rightly, the baddies' magic was discordant and the rhythms very jarring. 

Icarii who can do this often have 'star' somewhere in their name. 'FireStar', 'WolfStar', 'DragonStar', etc. It all has a part to play in society and even in pregnancy. I seem to remember scenes where the parents would sing to the baby to encourage the wings to grow, or sing to the baby in the womb.


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## psychotick (Jun 18, 2013)

Hi,

Just to add to the choice of fave magic users, I'd add one more (type) that probably everyone won't agree with. But I've always thought Jedi Knights were magic users. You'd have to go a long way to find a better role model for a boy wizard than Luke. Yoda is brilliant as a mystic. And Obiwan(?) the perfect master wizard.

Cheers, Greg.


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## skip.knox (Jun 18, 2013)

I agree on Obi-wan. One thing I note with both him and Gandalf is a small infusion of humor in the character. I think it may be important to humanize a powerful wizard, at least a little bit.


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## Sheilawisz (Jun 19, 2013)

You have asked us three excellent questions, Phil =)

1- _How would you write your ideal magic-user character?_ My magical characters are always very powerful, and this is because I am in love with the concept of Magic as a truly supernatural and awe-inspiring force. In my mind, if you are magical then it means that you are above the laws of nature and you represent a terrible power.

I am against the ideas of Magic as a nearly scientific force full of rules and limitations, which is common in so many Fantasy works... however, you can find some limits in my Magic and some things that my Mages cannot do.

My mages almost always consider themselves as rightfully superior to common people, but they still have feelings and problems. They are not deities, despite their high levels of power and all the terrible things that they can do.

2- _What writer/writers do you think have done the magic-user character well?_ Tolkien did a wonderful job with the character of Gandalf, and J.K. Rowling did so as well with Albus Dumbledore... I love them both =)

3- _Would you make a magic-user character a main character in your story/novel? Why or why not?_ Yes, absolutely! I love Magic so much that my stories are always about Magical characters. The story is always about Mages, their challenges and their lives, and I relegate the common people and their affairs to a background setting.


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## Firekeeper (Jun 19, 2013)

1. I do like the idea of the physically weak sorcerer. In my worlds, magic is a lifelong pursuit, no one ever truly "masters" it because there is always more to learn. It takes a lifetime of dedicated study just to acquire rudimentary abilities. On top of that, magic users are rare because magic has been outlawed, so those who practice either have to live as hermits outside of society or have to have a "day job" within society. Because of all of these factors, I don't really see how a mage in my world could have time to develop an imposing physique. Unless, his day job is blacksmithing. Hmm, now that might be a good idea (makes a mental note)

Anyway, long answer made short: my mages tend to be physically weak, full of secrets and constantly striving to learn more. Their attitudes vary, from those who believe they are better than non-magical people to those who have dedicated themselves to healing and other "good" uses for magic. 

2. I love Gandalf. Jane Lindskold did a good job as well. Obviously JK Rowling did extremely well. But my favorite so far has to be Patrick Rothfuss, I love how his magic/sympathy works. 

3> Absolutely. When it comes to magic, while I want to be unique in my work I'm not going to try to blaze a new trail and leave behind magic or downplay it. I love it, and I love the cliches. So while my mages aren't going to be tossing fireballs at every problem they face, there will always be magic in my work and as such mages will like emerge as MCs every now and then.


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## PaulineMRoss (Jun 19, 2013)

My absolute favourite magic users are in Glenda Larke's Stormlords Trilogy. The only magical power is the ability to detect and manipulate water. The weakest users can only detect the presence of water. The strongest can lift water from the oceans into clouds and shift them to where rainfall is needed. It sounds a fairly trivial type of magic, but the author came up with an astonishing number of inventive ways to use it. For instance, you can hide under water by moving the water aside to create an air pocket with a little air tube to the surface. You can create waterspouts. You can make it rain on your enemy. You can kill people by sucking the water out of them. You can float objects over walls. Etc. I look at clouds, sometimes, and think, if only...

They're great books in other ways, too. Highly recommended.


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## Jess A (Jun 19, 2013)

PaulineMRoss said:


> My absolute favourite magic users are in Glenda Larke's Stormlords Trilogy.
> 
> They're great books in other ways, too. Highly recommended.



Glenda Larke is fantastic.


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## SeverinR (Jun 20, 2013)

Weaver said:


> Physically weak magic-users:  a variation on the "geniuses are ugly and scrawny because life is fair" myth.  Even when used in the name of "game balance," it's a silly notion, and it definitely doesn't make sense in novels.  I'd like to see more fantasy stories where magic _requires_ the user to be physically fit because working magic is strenuous and an out-of-shape mage is likely to die in the middle of a spell.
> 
> (Good example of a magic-using character who is also good with mundane combat, etc., and for good reason:  Sun Wolf, from Barbara Hambly's novel _The Dark Hand of Magic _.)



I could see some amgic being very exhausting, requiring a physically fit body to cast regularly, or that is built by using the magic regularly. But some magic should be rather less physical. Or maybe learned one way it requires physical strength, but learned another it requires a energy drain of some other type?

I did write about a Necromancer, the weird woman that messes with dead people, and talks to herself, no one speaks to because she can get dead bodies to work for her, and call on life energy magic(positive and negitive). But she isn't evil, she actually blesses all the townspeople's dead so they can't be called up to fight for an evil necromancer. (Actually, unbeknownst to the towns people, she can call them up if she needed them. Which she only calls up the dead of the unrecognizable(rotted or a dead drifter no one knew) so the townspeople won't get upset seeing a dearly departed going for a walk down mainstreet or a backalley. (And she actually talks to ghosts)


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## Saigonnus (Jun 20, 2013)

Firekeeper said:


> 1. I do like the idea of the physically weak sorcerer. In my worlds, magic is a lifelong pursuit, no one ever truly "masters" it because there is always more to learn. It takes a lifetime of dedicated study just to acquire rudimentary abilities. On top of that, magic users are rare because magic has been outlawed, so those who practice either have to live as hermits outside of society or have to have a "day job" within society. Because of all of these factors, I don't really see how a mage in my world could have time to develop an imposing physique. Unless, his day job is blacksmithing. Hmm, now that might be a good idea (makes a mental note)



Even living on the fringes of society, you'd need to provide for yourself; which likely means hunting, trapping, raising livestock, gardening and maybe even repairing your own home (hanging shingles, building fences, etc) most of those would probably make a person at least physically fit if not strong.


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## Lovecraftian (Jun 26, 2013)

Without preamble:

1. You're quite along the same lines of logic I use, in that the character has to be unique as possible. If it isn't his power that is unique, then he must have character traits that are unique. People don't want to read the same Wizard/Witch/Warlock/Whatever they did in the previous fantasy book, and speaking for myself, I really don't want to write anything generic or borrowed either.

2. 





> I've always been interested in the idea of magicians that only have one spell. For some reason I find that fascinating.


 A writer by the name of Terry Pratchett (you probably know him) wrote of a Wizard named Rincewind who only knew one spell. It's too complicated and spoiler-prone to write a full synopsis of his character, so my only suggestion is to read it. I think Pratchett's Discworld series is a great example of magic and magic-users.

3. A great deal of fantasy stories have magic-users as main characters, and I personally have and will continue to include all manner of magical creature/people in my writings as main characters. Particularly for fantasy, it just widens your horizons in terms of scope and potential. You can do a great deal more with a character who has a spell or two up his sleeve, in my opinion.


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## Ivan Sailor (Jun 28, 2013)

1. I am very fond of the idea that power is corrupting. In the most realistic scenario, the mage would probably not be the good guy. At best he would be an antihero. Also, nobility. If they are not considered completely evil and hunted down for it, mages would probably be the nobility. Already having a lot of actual, concrete power and probably more education than the military side of the feudal system (depending on the world) , any detrmined mage could quickly harness enough political power to effectively become the established nobility. Of course, that depends a lot on the setting. So I'd probably give my magic user some measure of corruption which makes for great internal struggle.

2. Brent Weeks' Durzo Blint from The Way of Shadows and Gavin Guile from The Dark Prism are both great magic users. The only problem is their strong similarities despite the fact that these are two different series. Also, all the mage characters from the book Dragon Age: Asunder. They are just awesomely made, all of them. Oddly enough, the magic users seem more like real world people than the rest. 

3. The first version (of many) of my current WIP had a mage as main character but I found a lot of issues with that. The first of which being the act that it was hard to relate to him due to the fact of ... evilness. He was also too overpowered. like most of the mages in that story. But I had fun fleshing him out even though he's a minor antagonist now.


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## CupofJoe (Jun 28, 2013)

_1- How would you write your ideal magic-user character?_ 
I'm trying to get right a teenage girl who is just coming to realise how strong her magic is. I'm trying to make it feel more like she is a child prodigy, she has the talent but not the skills [think untrained tennis player – she can hit hard and move fast but has no game skills...]. In the story the people controlling her want her to be just one thing but she's going to discover that she can do much more. 
I like magic users to learn and grow, to become more powerful. I also want the magic to be [somewhat] unreliable and have distinct limitations. If the magic is all powerful, then the story could be very boring or really short.

_2- What writer/writers do you think have done the magic-user character well? _
Terry Pratchett. His Wizards are very well crafted and he seems to understand academia too. Their magical ability is almost incidental to their involvement in his tales. 
I liked the limitations that David&Leigh Eddings put on their magicians. It meant that world shaking power was possible but it had a terrible price. I especially loved when one of the baddies killing himself by wanting something else gone...

_3- Would you make a magic-user character a main character in your story/novel? Why or why not? _
Probably not the main character or if they are, they are not there for their magical ability. Magic can just be the _d__eus ex machina_ that you use to get your character out of a sticky situation because you can't think of a way to write them out of it.

All this said and as you might have guessed I tend not to have a lot of magic in my stories.


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## Trick (Jun 28, 2013)

1- How would you write your ideal magic-user character? 

Just that, as a CHARACTER. If they are sentient then they are not just a weapon or a tool. I want the magical characters to be as, if not more, fleshed out than their non-magical counterparts. I like the idea that magic changes a person and I want to see that in their dialogue and interaction. I am always striving to make my magic-users more than enigmatic mentors or self-aiming catapults and I hope that I succeed.

2- What writer/writers do you think have done the magic-user character well? 

Brandon Sanderson has an amazing way of producing magic users that are unique and fantastic without going so far off the mark that I lose interest. The Stormlight Archive is awesome and the assassin in white character is half of the reason I will keep reading them as they come out; I want to know more about him! If Sanderson's goal was to reinvent magic with every new series, in my mind, he has accomplished it. Just look at Mistborn, so well written and magic like no other I've ever read. I like to know the rules of magic in a given book, even if they can be broken, and I lose interest in mage characters whose powers are never even partially defined. 

3- Would you make a magic-user character a main character in your story/novel? Why or why not?

Absolutely and I almost always do. I have read fantasy novels without magical main characters but I'm not a fan. IMHO, a magical character is very important to a fantasy story, good or bad, weak or strong. The kind of magic is half of what draws me into books.   

I have so many ideas for magic users in my different WIPs that it's hard to pick an all out favorite but I have two that I'm a big fan of right now. One is a young thief who randomly learns of his people's ancient heritage and qains the attributes of totem animals through magical tattoos. Imagine being able to call up the strength of an elephant or the speed of a cheetah! Obviously, since the animals are limited so is his magic but the idea of attribute magic has also led me on to various other forms for other characters also.

My second is an astromancer type (different project) who can manipulate time and space by LYING to the stars. Basically he can tell the stars that he is in one place and because they believe him, he is there. The same goes for time, though with less flexibility; it's more of a slowing down/jumping back a few seconds situation. His limitations are created by any lacking knowledge of the stars and the amount of practice and study it takes to become an accomplished astromancer.


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## Mizore (Oct 29, 2015)

_1. How would you write your ideal magic-user character?_

My ideal magic-user character is someone who lives in a world where magic is what is used when the technology is not enough. Not a typical magician, because they are psychic where psi is the basis of reality and they have decided or are destined to protect the living beings from the threats of the dark side of the life, where these threats can be called demons. Magicians would the mortal level of what some religions call angels.

The psychics go through several stages, from being a little faster and stronger, manipulating space and time to become incorporeal beings who can travel effortlessly through the different levels of reality, always careful not to become a monster like those with the fighting.


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## thedarknessrising (Oct 29, 2015)

1. How would you write your ideal magic-user character?

Magic is sort of like the Force in my novel. It's everywhere, but only a few are attuned to use it. And while there are those who would use it for good and noble purposes, there are also those who are evil and use it to hurt others. Magic also has a limitless amount of capabilities, provided the magic user is strong enough to use them.

2. What writer/writers do you think have done the magic-user character well?

Well, George Lucas for one. And JK Rowling with the Harry Potter series.

3. Would you make a magic-user character a main character in your story/novel? Why or why not?

Yep. I am using one in my current WIP. They're fun to write, because there are endless possibilities with them.


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## Saigonnus (Oct 29, 2015)

An ideal mage is one that has/gets the tools/powers necessary to overcome/assist in the mission at hand. 

I liked Harry Potter, Khelben Blackstaff from Forgotten Realms 

My principal WIP is centered around a man who is given power from the goddess and has to learn how to use it at the same time he has to try and overcome the baddies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Miskatonic (Oct 30, 2015)

One rule that I'm trying to stick to is that magic takes it's toll on the user, the less experienced the more it drains them. Thus strategic use of magic is necessary. Also if a really powerful spell must be cast it would take multiple magic users to pull it off, and even then it may prove fatal to one or all of them. 

This is more of a restriction for humans, where as supernatural creatures with a high level of intelligence may be able to use magic more often.


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## MineOwnKing (Oct 30, 2015)

I think the idea of fate or karma, shown as a possible tool or even as a reasoning entity is as interesting as a typical magic user can be.

Perhaps magic use could be included to perform civil duties, such as in cases of law and order where the laws are not detailed enough to repair intangible injuries to self or reputation.

Like in a case of false accusation and or irreparable and unwarranted defamation of character leading to deep emotional wounds.

Instead of those false accusers going about their lives as if nothing happened, karma could help to show them the error of their ways.


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## Miskatonic (Oct 30, 2015)

MineOwnKing said:


> I think the idea of fate or karma, shown as a possible tool or even as a reasoning entity is as interesting as a typical magic user can be.
> 
> Perhaps magic use could be included to perform civil duties, such as in cases of law and order where the laws are not detailed enough to repair intangible injuries to self or reputation.
> 
> ...



I definitely think the use of magic should have some ethical or moral implications. It's a force that can bring destruction or restoration, not something that should be wielded with impunity. Having a magic user that just wipes whatever he/she wants off the face of the earth, whenever he/she wants, sounds extremely boring.


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## Russ (Oct 30, 2015)

Miskatonic said:


> Having a magic user that just wipes whatever he/she wants off the face of the earth, whenever he/she wants, sounds extremely boring.



Unless it is the antagonist...


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## Miskatonic (Oct 30, 2015)

Russ said:


> Unless it is the antagonist...



Even then it can still be more of a nuisance.

George Martin pointed out something that rang true. Basically he said if you have a wizard that can cast a spell and wipe out a 10,000 man army, there would be no 10,000 man army. This is because no sane person would join an army to take on that wizard to begin with. 

Someone that powerful doesn't have to worry about any kind of threat.


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## Sheilawisz (Oct 30, 2015)

I disagree with that.

The fact that ordinary armies are no match for a powerful Magical character does not mean that said character would lack all types of challenge, enemies and threats to worry about.

A good example of a threat for powerful Wizards or Mages would be others of their kind, just to start with. They could find themselves in a fight, or perhaps they would be threatened by supernatural monsters of great power. We can always come up with challenges adequate for the characters in question, it just needs to be adapted to their capabilities.

The Lightyans (Mages) in my _Joan of England_ trilogy are not among my most powerful characters, but they are still capable of wiping out entire cities or even annihilate their planet if they wanted to...

Still, Joan and her friends have loads of trouble to worry about.


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