# Sinister weapons



## Telemecus (Jan 11, 2013)

In my story, I want to portray some weapons as being more on the creepy side, as opposed to the usual shiny flashing attractive magical weapons. Most specifically, I want to include a javelin, or some sort of spear, but I am at a loss how to do it, except for coloring it black and making all the other characters nervous about it. Any ideas on how to make these weapons effective and interesting?


----------



## Saigonnus (Jan 11, 2013)

A bladed spear balanced on the other end with a mace or flail head. The titanium shaft gleams dully and is etched with shining blood red runes, tassels of rat skulls and crow's feathers decorate beneath the spear head. Black leather forms the grip near the center of the shaft and a blood groove runs down the center of the three foot blade.


----------



## FatCat (Jan 11, 2013)

If you want an object to be menacing, I think you'd have to incorporate a significant psychological association with that weapon. Maybe have the spears/javelins ceremonial in some way, made out of the bones of the defeated or anything to lend that ominous feeling. To make something truly feared, there has to be a legend, of sorts, to make that fear real.


----------



## Ireth (Jan 11, 2013)

FatCat said:


> If you want an object to be menacing, I think you'd have to incorporate a significant psychological association with that weapon. Maybe have the spears/javelins ceremonial in some way, made out of the bones of the defeated or anything to lend that ominous feeling. To make something truly feared, there has to be a legend, of sorts, to make that fear real.



Seconded. I use that technique with a set of enchanted bagpipes belonging to the villain of my vampire story; there are several different tales circulating about how the villain got them and what they're made of. Some think the pipes are made of wood from a tree planted on the villain's grave; others think they're made of the bones of the man who murdered him, and the bag is made of the murderer's skin, or woven from his hair. The truth is not nearly so grisly. XD


----------



## ThinkerX (Jan 11, 2013)

> Most specifically, I want to include a javelin, or some sort of spear, but I am at a loss how to do it, except for coloring it black and making all the other characters nervous about it. Any ideas on how to make these weapons effective and interesting?



Runes inlaid into the shaft which emit a faint red glow once the spear has tasted blood.  Ribbons tied to the shaft near the spear point which flutter towards the next potential victim.  And, of course the story as to how this was once the weapon of a deranged demi-god or warrior supreme who used it to kill kings and high priests alike before falling upon it himself.


----------



## wordwalker (Jan 11, 2013)

FatCat said:


> To make something truly feared, there has to be a legend, of sorts, to make that fear real.



Sometimes you don't even need a different look, just the legend itself.

There's a bit in Brian Daley's _Doomfarers of Coramonde_ where an officer pops out of a group of defeated villains and hurls "the infamous spear Finder" at a hero. Just a couple of lines in the description to say how deadly he's always been with it, and we're impressed (well, a little impressed, considering what this hero's already done) when the guy survives it. And we never see this baddie before or again, but it works as a momentary thrill.

And with some actual separate moments threaded through scenes, you can make something *scary*.


----------



## Devor (Jan 12, 2013)

Make the shaft out of stretched octopus tentacles that curl up and grapple the victim on impact.


----------



## Wanara009 (Jan 12, 2013)

One of the best example of an enchanted spear I remembered is the a spear that was a dragon. No, not _made_ out of a dragon, but a dragon literally forced to _transform _into a spear. The spear made anyone who wield it invincible but will loose its power if touched directly by a woman.

Okay, I'm getting of track. The best way to make a weapon intimidating is associating it with a gruesome tale. It doesn't even have to be "This weapon killed many" kind of thing, though. That would be too generic. Perhaps it's associated with a despicable atrocity (which can vary from culture to culture) or divine punishment.

A good example of this is a folktale from Indonesia about a _walking stick_ made out of a demonic/divine (I'm not clear on the nature, since its implied that it was punishment for a pair of twin brother and sister that engage in incestuous sexual relation but it also prey on innocent animals and men even after the two siblings are punished by it) tree that literally absorbed any living creature that dared to touch it. Since the first victims (the incestuous twin brother and sister) were the children of a king, he ordered the tree to be cut and fashioned into a walking stick to remind him and his people of his children and the sin they had committed. It is that when the king brought it into battle, the opposing army felt a terrible fear and simply run away. The walking stick itself never killed anything.


----------



## Feo Takahari (Jan 12, 2013)

On the completely non-magical side of things, there's a great potential for menace in weapons that are designed to cripple, cause blood loss (more than usual, anyway), increase risk of infection . . . Basically, most "underhanded" tactics other than poison. In the case of the javelin, perhaps the head is barbed in such a way that it tears at the victim's flesh when pulled out?


----------



## Amanita (Jan 12, 2013)

Fear of the unknown and unaccepted is very strong. Make the weapon have effects a weapon of this kind wouldn't usually have. Maybe a small wound caused by it will seem normal at first, but later cause some terrible condition by magic/poison/infection. 
Or something that's actually affecting the victim's psych/soul. Something that causes them to have hallucinations and maybe strike at their own people or something that's making them submissive and forcing them to surrender despite of any desire to fight against it. 
There are many possibilities within a fantasy world, the dark stories surrounding the weapons suggested above are good as well.


----------



## Anders Ã„mting (Jan 12, 2013)

Reading the thread title, I assumed you were talking about weapons intended for the left hand. But I'm weird that way.



Telemecus said:


> In my story, I want to portray some weapons as being more on the creepy side, as opposed to the usual shiny flashing attractive magical weapons. Most specifically, I want to include a javelin, or some sort of spear, but I am at a loss how to do it, except for coloring it black and making all the other characters nervous about it. Any ideas on how to make these weapons effective and interesting?



I don't think you should make the look like anything special, black steel and skulls and so on. That's a bit unsubtle. Rather, you should give them an very unpleasant history and try to minimize any glorious or honorable aspects they might have. 

There is a modern Swedish swordsmith named Peter Johnson - quite reknowned in the online sword communities - who has spent years researching historical swords first hand. He has examined a huge number of antique swords in intimate detail so that he can reproduce them as close to historical standards as possible. Once he made a post on one of the fora about executioner swords. He claimed he found them actually unpleasant to handle, that they were very creepy and somehow "harsher and colder" than other swords. 

Now, he seems to be a rational fellow so I doubt he was implying anything supernatural about it. Rather, the fact that they were intended to slaughter defenseless people, rather than weapons to be used in military combat, was disturbing to him.

So, I would emphasise that these weapon are not actually weapons - they are not intended for defense or dueling or the battlefields of men. They are tools for murder, human sacrifice, blood vengeance, etc. They are butcher knives for butchering people, hunting spears for hunting humans, etc. They are what weapons _shouldn't _be, to an almost supernatural degree, and anyone who gets in contact with them instinctively understands that.


----------



## Fakefaux (Jan 12, 2013)

My inclination is to avoid overt signs of evil, like skull designs or glowing red runes. A lot of people have mentioned stories about the weapon being a good way to get the idea across, and I agree with this. Just having the weapon involved in a number of unpleasant deeds is a good way to go about things. Another way is to have odd requirements for the use of the blade. For example, the sword DÃ¡insleif, from Nordic myth, supposedly had to kill a man every time it was unsheathed, or misfortune would befall the wielder. this sort of thing is great, because it's not _quite_ provable. If misfortune does befall the wielder, is the sword really the cause, or did he just piss off the wrong people?

For actual effects, I'd still say go subtle. Have the weapon be a little heavier then it should be, enough to be noticeable, as if it were weighed down by the dark things it has done. Have wounds it inflict be more prone to infection, or otherwise be difficult to heal. Maybe the owner of the weapon SWEARS he one heard it talk, but just the one time, and he's not sure if it was his imagination or not, because it happened right after a battle and he was disoriented. Little things like this, once they add up over the course of a story, can make any weapon seem very sinister.


----------



## emeraldos (Jan 14, 2013)

I believe that adding a bit of barbarian influece would make it pretty scary.. You know, a weapon not really well-made with pegs all over etc.. Also a history full of blood (like Harry Potter's wand eg) that wants his owner dying from the lots of pain he has made.. Or you could add information about the way it was made..


----------



## camradio (Jan 15, 2013)

I think it depends on what exactly how you want to accomplish this "fear". At a glance a poisoned spear doesnt instil fear. If you know that the person typically poisons his weapon or if its a well known fact that the weapon is poisoned than it is fearful. However something purely cosmetic can make it look sinister, for example a black spear with glowing runes or dried blood on it. It looks sinister but doesn't really made it more damaging.

All that said if you are looking for things to make a spear more effective or cruel a few things come to mind. A cut from a serrated blade causes an enormous amount of damage. It tends to shred the skin and makes stitching very difficult. If you wanted to have some mystical aspect you could perhaps give it some ability that stops the blood from clotting meaning that they will almost always bleed out even from a minor wound.


----------



## The Tourist (Jan 15, 2013)

People freak over switchblades.  Design a gnarly weapon to your desire and to underline the plot.

Then put a spring in it.


----------



## camradio (Jan 15, 2013)

The Tourist said:


> People freak over switchblades.  Design a gnarly weapon to your desire and to underline the plot.
> 
> Then put a spring in it.



Totally agree and the thing I think is so menacing about the switch is just that sound. It's just a simple click but we see it as threatening. Add some kind of audible characteristic to the spear. A constant hum or wail. Something that makes is so someone can recognize it even if they cant see it.


----------



## The Tourist (Jan 15, 2013)

The sound quality is bad, as the jargon for a good switchblade is "walks and talks."  But you'll get  the idea.

Automatic Knives - YouTube


----------



## Telemecus (Jan 15, 2013)

Thank you so much for the ideas! This weapon is starting to take shape in my head quite nicely. 

The spear, as I am imagining it now, will be essentially a metal rod, tapered at both ends. Very subdued in appearance. Probably made of pig iron, since it is supposed to be old, and I like the color, and I really like the idea that it would be heavier than most weapons. I also want to put tiny barbs surrounding the points on both ends, small enough to be easy to overlook in the heat of battle, but large enough to shred up any wounds it inflicts. Also, since the weapon is actually intended for my (very very long-lived) MC, I have come up with a bit of legend that puts a sound to it, since I am not sure how to make a spear make noise all on it's own.  

Feedback?


----------



## Anders Ã„mting (Jan 15, 2013)

Telemecus said:


> Thank you so much for the ideas! This weapon is starting to take shape in my head quite nicely.
> 
> The spear, as I am imagining it now, will be essentially a metal rod, tapered at both ends. Very subdued in appearance. Probably made of pig iron, since it is supposed to be old, and I like the color, and I really like the idea that it would be heavier than most weapons. I also want to put tiny barbs surrounding the points on both ends, small enough to be easy to overlook in the heat of battle, but large enough to shred up any wounds it inflicts. Also, since the weapon is actually intended for my (very very long-lived) MC, I have come up with a bit of legend that puts a sound to it, since I am not sure how to make a spear make noise all on it's own.
> 
> Feedback?



I'm not sure I quite see how pig iron implies age - it's produced by smelting iron with high-carbon fuel, which implies a fairly advanced steel production. So, if you have access to pig iron you probably have access to pretty good steel as well.

On the other hand, you might take that as meaning it was actually created from the waste products of making steel for other weapons. That might work to your advantage since it would sort of make it an outcast in a symbolic sense - a weapon that shouldn't have been created, wrought from junk metal nobody wanted.

Anyway, it better be enchanted, since pig iron has a very high carbon content and thus is very brittle.


----------



## The Tourist (Jan 15, 2013)

Barbs on one end, smooth cylindrical point on the other.

If your main character goes up against someone like a Samurai with leather armor, he'll never get the barbed tip out of the dead  body.

As for a spring, a coil spring might be out of its time period.  But some form of fantasy, pre-steam punk, bronze, grasshopper spring (like the lock of a blackpowder rifle) would probably work and look even cruder.  It would also clatter like the Tooterville Trolley opening since the tolerances would be quite sloppy.


----------



## Jamber (Jan 16, 2013)

Agree with Feo Takahari. A weapon that has snide, conniving or just plain mean blade design, e.g. something designed to pull out entrails or to cripple without killing. Think of excessively curved blades, ones with many recurved points, or ones that are simply poison-tipped (or magic-tipped).

Sickle shaped blades are often a bit scary. (My dad cut his finger off with a sickle, so maybe that's just my outlook speaking...)

The blade used to wound Frodo in LOTR isn't exactly scary, but the principle works: a blade that melts away but for the tip, which slowly travels to the victim's heart.

What about a blade so incredibly thin it's both sharper than razorpoint and will always snap inside the victim? Sharp enough to embed deep in bone and never heal, but so fragile it's impossible to remove without splintering and causing more harm.

Loose ideas anyway, hope they help.
Jamber


----------



## Telemecus (Jan 16, 2013)

Sorry Anders. Pig iron always makes me think old and ancient, because I was always taught that the Chinese started almost mass producing it around 600 B.C.E. That may just be wrong ( it is public school after all ), but it was just my personal view on it. Thank you for the insight, though. I like the feeling that it probably shouldn't have been made, since it sort of underlines the MC's conflict on the story.

Also, can anyone think of a really interesting (and creepy!) way to find this weapon? It is technically returning to the character, but I want to make that moment special.


----------



## The Tourist (Jan 16, 2013)

Telemecus said:


> Sorry Anders. Pig iron always makes me think old and ancient.



Not always.

For example, railroad tracks are essentially pig iron.

As for weapons, many modern knives, Like the traditional Ka-Bar, are made from 1084 or 1095.  When it comes to 1095, both TOPS and ESEE  knives use it.

It's an idea called "bend but don't break."  Additionally, it's easy for untrained folks to sharpen this alloy.  A wet rock out of the river will do.

For example, the knife pictured below is of modern manufacture and made from 1095 steel.  I polished the edge in the same fashion I do for any client's knife.  Trust me, it will cut you to the bone.

I think the issue is the telling of the tail.  Why can't the mystic weapon be forged with a talisman, or by a mystic Asian knowing the togishi and bushido arts?  After all, the Samurai were using red mud from a certain river bank for centuries to forge steel.


----------



## Lillia Jane Marshes (Jan 20, 2013)

If the weapon is associated with magic, then it could have some part of sinister spell lingering on it that wasn't exactly noticeable, but puts anyone around it on edge. Practically, the spell might have been cast to unnerve opponents or discourage thieves from stealing it. That's the kind of thing I would do, anyway.


----------



## The Tourist (Jan 20, 2013)

Lillia, I agree with your overall premise.  But let me describe a visual.

For example, lots of Civil War sabers were blunt.  They were designed for blunt trauma.  Even a slight nick might break your arm.  Painful, but survivable.

Right now I'm carrying a Buck 112 Ecolite.  Even among women who dislike "tactical knives," it appears to be a reasonable working edged tool about the size, shape and weight of your average paring knife.

I polished mine, like the ZT0300 in my dominant hand pocket.  While I use the little Ecolite to eat with when away from home, like at the coffee bar, it is sharper than a scalpel.  For example, several years ago I had a mole removed from my forehead, and for fun the doctor and I had some cutting tests.  My knife was sharper.

Swing a cutlass, you might hit something.  But if I can cut you, you'll die.

What's my point?  We are discussing stories.  We like our villains evil, not just some putz like Iago.  Most of the people in the theater jumped the first time they saw The Predator snap out the cutting edge on his arm.  In making the movie "Alien vs Predator," the writers decided to make that weapon three times bigger.

I was taught to "show, not tell."  If our villains are cold blooded killers, and one of them pops out a Buck 112, most of the readership will say, "No biggee, it's a paring knife."

Sinister weapons need to exist because they set the mood of the story.


----------



## WyrdMystic (Jan 20, 2013)

Poison, a horrible nasty poison.....or disease. In the old days they used to catapult dead animals and soldiers over castle walls when they were under siege, the people inside would die of starvation and disease and then the enemies could just walk in....rarely were castles actually stormed.


----------

