# Keeping my Messiah-archetype Character realistic.



## Xenodeus Blade (May 17, 2012)

In my story, the main POV character is a young man descended from cat-people(his mother's side) and a race of semi-divine humans that created were mostly wiped out by a Mage War(his father's side). He is also destined to be the champion of light and destroy the ultimate evil. But I don't want him to be too mary sueish so I though of a few ways to keep him down to earth:

1) Even though he wields the most powerful sword ever made, he lacks any formal or informal training. Even near the end of the saga, he only possess enough swordsmanship to keep him alive, but nothing to brag about.

2) Has no leadership skills. Even though he is suppose to lead the world against the forces of darkness, he knows next to nothing about battle tactics. 

3) The choices he makes causes people to die. Losing many of his closest firends, even his own brother.

4) He is able to use Divine Powers, but that is only when he has his sword to channel them. With out his sword, he is powerless.


Any more ideas that can help make my world's Messiah earn the right to save the world.


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## Amanita (May 17, 2012)

Sorry to be so blunt, but I don't think that making your hero bad at everything necessary for him to do his job is a very good idea. I've seen this kind of thing before and it often has a tendency of making the ending seem contrieved and unconvincing. He does have to succedd after all, doesn't he? And if he doesn't have the skills, deus ex machina or luck has to allow him to do it.
It's no problem if your hero is a special person with skills that other people don't have, that's what the term "hero" means after all. Most people don't mind this or otherwise stories involving heroes wouldn't be so popular all over the world.
Try to make your main character a human being with flaws and strengths and he will be able to meed modern expectations as well. Point three sounds good in this regard. 
I'd reconsider point four as well, though. Characters who actually hold personal power are much more interesting than those who are completely dependent on some sort of artefact. People more interested in swords than I am might find more appeal in this than I do but still, personal power is more interesting.  The magic doesn't have to be easy to use after all. Another source of conflict.
All in all, I don't think making your character "Mary Sueish" should be too much of a worry for you. You've chosen a very conventional set-up for your stories so staying within these conventions to a certain extent will be what your readers expect. In your case, this should be a quite competent heroic character.


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## Devor (May 17, 2012)

Xenodeus Blade said:


> 2) Has no leadership skills. Even though he is suppose to lead the world against the forces of darkness, he knows next to nothing about battle tactics.



Honestly, my vibe from these forums is that people are growing tired of the kid from nowhere being thrust into super powers he hasn't in any way earned.  It's been done, and can be done very well, and people do find such characters relatable.  So there's nothing wrong with it.  But like Amanita said, you don't have to strip him of everything just to compensate for his abilities.  You don't _have_ to think that way.

In particular, I think strong leadership skills are a lot more awesome for a hero than a superpower.


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## Xenodeus Blade (May 17, 2012)

Amanita said:


> I'd reconsider point four as well, though. Characters who actually hold personal power are much more interesting than those who are completely dependent on some sort of artefact. People more interested in swords than I am might find more appeal in this than I do but still, personal power is more interesting.  The magic doesn't have to be easy to use after all. Another source of conflict.




The only reason he can use Divine Power is because, unlike standard Arcane Magic, in order for one to use Divine Power, a person needs a symbol of faith. The sword is also the chief holy symbol of the Religion of the Old Gods.

But I see your point.


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## gavintonks (May 17, 2012)

It makes me cringe a bit to hear the dumming down as it is not characteristic, surely with all this god dna and cat he would be groomed to be this wielder hero whatever?
You cannot make the person not a leader to be a hero he will automatically be a leader no matter what - goodluck with your story


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## Queshire (May 17, 2012)

I say focus less on the abilities and more on the attitude / personality, sure they may be destined to do this big whatever, but they're still human. If you want to avoid marty stu-ness, give them human foibles and failings. They are still human, hell, even Martin Luther King Jr. had a reputation as a bit of a womanizer.


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## Arranah (May 17, 2012)

Xenodeux Blade,

I'm going to respond to this from my own personal point of view.  As trite as it may sound, I often find myself in the role of a blundering messiah.  I do want to save the world.  Yep, I do.  The world doesn't want to be saved.  But nonetheless, like Housman said, "As I strap on for fighting My sword that will not save."

I think a hero who knows all, does and conquers all is trite and boring.  It's been done a lot, too.

Have you just let your character go...in other words, let him get himself in and out of messes, written completely off the top of your creativity, and then go back and cut out the stuff that doesn't work and enhance that which does?  That's what I do.  I can't formula write.  When I do, it stunts my creativity.  I have no leadership skills either.  So my characters have to learn them, like I would.  I say go with your gut and forget the rest.

Have you read or watched anything by Joseph Campbell, the guy who was an expert on worldwide cultural myths?  He's the one who inspired George Lucas, the _Star Wars_ guy.  Joseph has a book called_ Hero with a Thousand Faces_, and while the book reads like a college text, it is valuable.  If you can't sit through academia, you might try Joseph's interviews with Bill Moyer.  They are excellent.

Not sure if my comments helped.  Just believe in yourself and your vision.  Stay true to yourself.  That works best.


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## ThinkerX (May 17, 2012)

Jesus spent forty days in the wilderness learning from angels and being tempted by the devil before beginning his preaching career.

Buddha wandered about much of south asia before settling beneath the tree and meditating nonstop for a month before piercing the veils of illusion surrounding reality and beginning his career.

Same pattern with other 'messiah' type figures.

Might want to try something similiar with your hero.


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## zizban (May 17, 2012)

Just keep him human. He may have all these powers but he still has aches and pains, has to sleep on the ground, gets angry and frustrated, etc.


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## Queshire (May 17, 2012)

by the way, I -really- hate the whole Messiah-archetype. "Oh no, you can't go and solve your own problems, you have to wait and suffer until the _chosen_ one gets here," peh...

What's that telling readers?


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## Xenodeus Blade (May 18, 2012)

Queshire said:


> by the way, I -really- hate the whole Messiah-archetype. "Oh no, you can't go and solve your own problems, you have to wait and suffer until the _chosen_ one gets here," peh...
> 
> What's that telling readers?



He only is suppose to destroy the Lord of Ultimate Evil. There are other characters that are more focused on making the lives of others better without joining in the Final Battle. 

Also, I just want to tell a story, not tell people what to do or how to think.


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## Arranah (May 19, 2012)

Xenodeus Blade,  I like your thinking about telling a story, not telling others what to do or think.  Good writing is about showing, not telling.  The reader will find what is valid for them and leave the rest.


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## James Chandler (May 21, 2012)

I am going to be blunt, but I don't hate your idea.



> 1) Even though he wields the most powerful sword ever made, he lacks any formal or informal training. Even near the end of the saga, he only possess enough swordsmanship to keep him alive, but nothing to brag about.
> 
> 2) Has no leadership skills. Even though he is suppose to lead the world against the forces of darkness, he knows next to nothing about battle tactics.
> 
> ...



1) is a cliche that I have always hated. Main character has amazing power, but can't use it. I'm sure I'll keep seeing it, but I will stop reading a book when I see it. Of course, making him retrieve the sword first is also a cliche.

2) is this important? If main character is going to destroy the ultimate evil, does he need followers? Or is he going to lead other to accomplish the task without his powers? Is he Hercules or Napoleon? And, people respond to different types of leaders.

3) This has been done, and it works if done well.  See the Runelords series and Prince Caspian as two examples.

4) Then, why is he so important? Can't someone else use the sword?  However, this is also a potential cliche. I would highly recommend you avoid anything that sounds like it is derivative of Spaceballs. But, see Lloyd Alexander's Prydain Chronicles for an example of doing it right.

5) If he has all the strengths of his heritage, he should also have weaknesses. What happens when his cat-girl companion suddenly goes into heat? And, then what happens if any of his powers require him to be "pure?" What happens if it rains or if he has to swim?

If he is leading people, what happens when he faces a barrier he could easily get around, but his followers can't?


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## Graylorne (May 21, 2012)

> 5) If he has all the strengths of his heritage, he should also have weaknesses. What happens when his cat-girl companion suddenly goes into heat? And, then what happens if any of his powers require him to be "pure?" What happens if it rains or if he has to swim?




Very good questions! A half-cat boy should have cat traits too.


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## Xenodeus Blade (May 21, 2012)

Graylorne said:


> Very good questions! A half-cat boy should have cat traits too.



He does have Cat-like traits. He has cat ears, elongated nails, a tail, and fur.


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## Graylorne (May 22, 2012)

Yes, but I meant character traits. Like James Chandler stated in his nr 5: his behaviour, his sex life, his fears and tastes, his smell & sight (nightsight, sees different colours from humans), his reflexes. A half-cat is more that just a boy with a tail.


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## Xenodeus Blade (May 23, 2012)

Here are the traits of my character, who for all further references will be named Tom until a better name can be thought of.

1) His reflexes are twice as good as the average human, but compared to other cat-folk(actual name is kept under wraps), he is a little slower than most.

2) He is taller than most of his race, considering that his father's people are equivilent to Nephilim giants, this is not that hard to believe. He is stronger than most, but not on any level that would be considered super human, more like the product of years of farm work and carpentry.

3) Because both his parents died, father was killed during mercenary work, mother died due to scarlet fever, he was forced to raise his little brother, keeping the family farm going, and being part of the Towns Defense Corps(when you are about six two in a race in which men grow to be at BEST five five, you're pretty much forced to join), he feels as though he has to shelter all of that responsibility on himself and he finds it difficult to except help.

4) His hearing hearing is well above average, on par with the rest of his species. They are able to hear a humming bird fifty yards away.

5) His sight (if I can use D&D terminology) is at low-light spectrum, meaning he is able to see in the dark, as long as there is some light.

6) His race does have a monthly mating cycle. They are not slaves to their bestial urges, it only increases feelings the person already has for another. 

Thats all of the stuff I can think of right now.


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## Zephon (May 24, 2012)

I would focus on any possible flaws in his personality. You said his race does not give in to lust, so maybe you create a different type of personality flaw? Maybe he's indecisive or over-analytical? Maybe alcoholic or depressed? 

You said the choices he makes causes others to die. Perhaps you can build a few situations where people die because of him, _when they didn't have to._ Everytime one of the good guys dies, it's for the good of the quest, or serves as some righteous sacrifice for the band of warriors,etc. How about your character just makes a really dumb or impulsive decision and Great men die because of it---for no right reason. The guilt from such a decision/s can further his own feelings of inadequacy or it can serve as a motivating experience.


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