# Prologues?



## R.S.Robertson (Jun 2, 2012)

My current story needs a prologue to concisely explain events that happened twenty-some years earlier.  The information is important and, while I do plan on using flashbacks and stories to provide some of the information throughout the book (my protagonists don't know their history so it has to be done anyway) there is quite a bit that can only be done effectively as a prologue because nobody in the story knows all of what happened.

I've heard that you shouldn't write a prologue, that publishers don't like them and may reject your book if you include one, but some of my favorite stories have a prologue!


----------



## Reaver (Jun 2, 2012)

Whoever said that you shouldn't write a prologue is full of what the residents of Tattooine call Bantha Puudu. I think that prologues can be an extremely important part of a story, especially when setting up the entire tale that you want to tell.

Just my opinion.


----------



## T.Allen.Smith (Jun 2, 2012)

Personally, as a reader, I love a good prologue. Done well I think they add so much historical depth and/or feeling.

I think the rule for no prologues deals with not submitting them to an agent or editor as the beginning pages.


----------



## Steerpike (Jun 2, 2012)

It comes down to personal tastes, of course. I'm all for going with your own vision of the story. That said, as a reader I'm not a fan of prologues. I've been known on many occasions to put a book back on the shelf when I see a prologue in it, particularly if it is more than a couple of pages long. It seems to me a prologue, by definition, is something that comes "before" the story. I'd rather the author just get on with the story.

I've bought books with prologues, of course. Some were very good. In other cases, they were boring as hell. In still other cases I don't know because I skipped them to get on to the actual story


----------



## Benjamin Clayborne (Jun 2, 2012)

If your prologue's only purpose is to convey backstory, then you probably should figure out another way to do it. If the themes of the story depend on the reader knowing the whole backstory even while the characters don't, then yeah, you kind of need a prologue -- so you'd better make sure the prologue is interesting. One way to do this is to invent a character who can recount the important parts of the backstory to the reader, while simultaneously being interesting (and having his own mini-story arc in the prologue). We never have to see this character again; he can be a one-off. Or maybe he dies. Or maybe the prologue POV is that of some sort of omniscient deity, who still has a personality and is interesting to read about.

But what's more likely is that the reader _does not need to know everything up front._ This may sound silly, but it's true. People are good at backfilling holes in the information they have. I really don't need to know the whole history of the Galactic Empire and the Old Republic in order to get angry when Leia is captured by Vader. There's a very good chance that you don't need your prologue at all; maybe none of your characters _individually_ have all the info, but if _collectively_ they do, then your readers will get the whole picture eventually.

In general there's nothing wrong with prologues; they can be misused, but they can also be used very well. But using a prologue as a backstory infodump is almost always a terrible idea.


----------



## T.Allen.Smith (Jun 2, 2012)

Benjamin Clayborne said:
			
		

> In general there's nothing wrong with prologues; they can be misused, but they can also be used very well. But using a prologue as a backstory infodump is almost always a terrible idea.



I agree with this whole-heartedly.


----------



## R.S.Robertson (Jun 2, 2012)

As it's currently fleshed-in the prologue I have is almost a mini-story that's somewhere between three and five pages long.  It could, conceivably, stand alone as long as the reader didn't care that they weren't going to know a whole lot about the characters or the precipitating events.

Rather than providing all of the background story that a reader may need (and the writer doesn't feel like telling in a more creative manner), this particular prologue gives a feel for the political climate and a glimpse into the overall society that the larger story fits into.  Of course things will have changed (for the worse) in those twenty-odd years, but it gives a snapshot and a hint into what may be coming.  The primary vehicle of the prologue is a massacre, the destruction of almost an entire family line with the exception of three people who are scattered to the winds, though not the reason behind it.  

Directly following the prologue we enter the "real world", that is to say, the modern world of the United States rather than in the story world of the prologue and where the majority of the story will take place.  All of the details left out of the prologue will be filled in throughout the remainder of the story, providing answers to the questions that were raises.


----------



## The Dark One (Jun 2, 2012)

Wasn't there another thread exactly on this topic recently?

In my opinion the best reason to include a prologue is to let the reader know in advance something the main character doesn't yet know. This device can be used to great effect when handled well.


----------



## Chime85 (Jun 2, 2012)

It is your choice, and your choice alone. Personally, I dislike prologues in my stories. However, I have no aversion to them what so ever. The question you're looking for boils down to your writting style and the setting of your story. 

If your prologue is told throughout your story (in smaller, bite sized pieces), but all in all, is the same. Ask yourself, is there a need for a prologue? By defining my prologue, am I simply giving away important plot developments yet to be told?

On the other hand, there is always room to create a living, breating setting for your story. A prologue could (and has proven to be) the very spring board to throw your story into the readers imagination and feeling.

x


----------



## Graylorne (Jun 3, 2012)

I'm not fond of prologues. If I had a lot of information I thought people had to know, I'd put it on my website, perhaps as an e-novelette, with a link in the book.


----------



## Caged Maiden (Jun 3, 2012)

So I had a prologue I was in love with.  It was 17 pages long and no that's not a typo.  Everyone who read it hated it, and I was so sad because I loved it.  It set up my whole story, connected dots and gave background information, and I LOVED IT!

Now, it is one tiny paragraph, an excerpt from a book, and all the character interaction from my prologue became chapter one.  NOW I'm in love with THAT.  

Stick with it, and of course you will be the final judge, but listen to people and see what they are really saying.  Though there appears no other way right now, I am absolutely sold on what I've done, and I stand as a testament to there always being another way.


----------



## R.S.Robertson (Jun 3, 2012)

Ain't that the truth anihow!

That's one of the things I love about writing, there's always more than one way to tell a story.


----------



## Lord Darkstorm (Jun 3, 2012)

Hmm, if the characters don't know the history, and they will find it out along the way, why do you feel you need to cheat the reader by telling them what is going on prior to the characters?  Readers like a bit of mystery in our stories, and if the characters don't know something, you don't have to tell the reader until the characters find out.  Half the fun of that situation is that the reader gets to learn about what is going on with the characters.

Don't fall so in love with your history and cleverness that you cheat the reader out of some suspense and mystery that is better left to be found out in the story than up front before it starts.  The only person who loves what you have done at page one (be it prolog or the start of the story) is you.  The reader doesn't yet care about any of it, so make sure if you want to give away so much information before it starts that it is for the readers benefit not yours.


----------



## The Dark One (Jun 4, 2012)

Sorry Darkstorm but I profoundly disagree.

As I said above, one really effective way of using a prologue is to let the reader know something in advance that the MC doesn't know. What is the effect of this? There are probably several but the main two are to set up a pleasurable expectation in the mind of the reader, but more importantly, to inspire tension/drama in the mind of the reader as s/he watches the MC walking obliviously into peril.

Get this right and the prologue is your friend.

Having said all that, I've never used one in a published book. I've done it once in a half-written draft in order to let the reader know what an evil bastard a particular character really was and thereby inspire drama as the reader watches the MC (who they're supposed to really like) getting sucked deeper and deeper into the villain's world. They wouldn't be anywhere near as scared for the MC if they hadn't read the prologue. (Of course, there are no readers yet, and chances are that story will never be finished. But you catch my drift, I hope.)


----------



## R.S.Robertson (Jun 4, 2012)

Too many good points on both sides of the fence so I'm still undecided.  I suppose I'll end up doing what I always do when I can't decide... wait and see!


----------



## soulless (Jun 4, 2012)

Simplest thing regarding prologues is...  If you want one then have one, if you don't then don't.  Its your story, do it your way


----------



## Caged Maiden (Jun 4, 2012)

Right on.  I think we've all read prologues we liked (excluding Steerpike  ) and some we found unnecessary.  The thing is, an editor will probably let you know if it's too long, or maybe way before that you will have a critique partner read your work and suggest some things you can do to make it shorter.

Like I said before, mine was 17 pages long.  Now it's one paragraph which fits nicely and a new Chapter 1.  You can always try it both ways and see which you like better.  If you want someone else to look it over, send me a PM I'm happy to give you unbiased opinion and offer any constructive suggestions I can think of.


----------



## R.S.Robertson (Jun 4, 2012)

Thanks anihow, when I'm ready I'll need all the constructive suggestions I can get, but right now it's still all just making it's way out of the primordial ooze!  I'll definitely let you know though.

For now I have a very rough outline of the prologue that I've been using to "store the information" in my portfolio if you want to have a look. I have about three different rough drafts written out based on that outline, I just don't know if I'm going to include it upfront or not, or even how much if I do include it.  It depends on where things go and what happens as everything else starts to flesh out.


----------



## Phin Scardaw (Jun 5, 2012)

Benjamin Clayborne said:


> If your prologue's only purpose is to convey backstory, then you probably should figure out another way to do it.
> 
> I really don't need to know the whole history of the Galactic Empire and the Old Republic in order to get angry when Leia is captured by Vader.
> 
> In general there's nothing wrong with prologues; they can be misused, but they can also be used very well. But using a prologue as a backstory infodump is almost always a terrible idea.



I'm totally going to poke at this one, and I hope it doesn't land me in hot water! Every episode of Star Wars begins with a scripted prologue! I wonder if Lucas had a bunch of producers barking at him to remove it? Anyway, no one seems to have ever complained about these prologues. A lot of films have these. I think Willow has one, too. 

I've always felt that prologues should be used as a teaser more than anything else: set up a bit of suspense rather than info-dump. I got involved in a big discussion about prologues in a previous thread; and this led me to thinking about them more than I normally would have. I ended up composing a prologue and an epilogue for my novel which I just finished. I knew that both would be of the dreaded info-dumps, so I tried to keep them short. I'm going to post the prologue here to see what kinds of reactions it gets. Love it or leave it!

R.S - I think you need to decide what is best for your story. Get the opinions of others, for sure, but stick to your guns if you feel like you need a prologue. Just make sure you write a damn good one! 

Here's mine:

*Prologue*

These are the final days of the Olymphin.

The men and women of the RiÃ³n that once prospered from the fostering empire of the mysterious Sylphs have since suffered the travesty of the Elf Battles. There has been much division of peoples among the Five Realms, and some make claims that the Mystics erred when they used the New Songs to engineer the Elfs — enhanced life forms that forged further Songs of even greater power and might. 

To everyone's unending regret, these supreme beings that were meant to usher in a golden age brought with their conflicts only ruin and devastation. The two factions of Elfs — the Saolo and the Nuolo — have been segregated these twenty years; for the Sylphs have sung into being an impermeable barrier between the Olymphin cities where the Elf Knights stand guard, and the underground dekems where the rebel Dark Elfs were driven after their defeat. Here, they have formed a new force with an aim for retaliation: the Hylmena.


----------



## T.Allen.Smith (Jun 5, 2012)

Ok, here's my opinion. It's meant to be constructive....

Yes, you have a major info dump there. Right at the beginning of the book, as a prologue, when I don't even feel any story connection yet? Well it's just boring to me.

Every single thing in those 2 paragraphs could be relayed to the reader during the actual story itself & in much more interesting ways.


----------



## Benjamin Clayborne (Jun 6, 2012)

Phin Scardaw said:


> I'm totally going to poke at this one, and I hope it doesn't land me in hot water! Every episode of Star Wars begins with a scripted prologue! I wonder if Lucas had a bunch of producers barking at him to remove it? Anyway, no one seems to have ever complained about these prologues. A lot of films have these. I think Willow has one, too.



The Star Wars opening crawls are no longer than about 100 words. That's pretty tiny, and the amount of information conveyed is minimal. They _don't_ convey the whole history of the Republic and Empire, as I said.  My point wasn't that Star Wars doesn't have a prologue; it's that its prologue doesn't try to explain everything that ever happened. It gives the bare essentials so that when you see the _Tantive IV_ and Vader's Star Destroyer show up, you already know who they are and why they're being chased.


----------



## Benjamin Clayborne (Jun 6, 2012)

T.Allen.Smith said:


> Ok, here's my opinion. It's meant to be constructive....
> 
> Yes, you have a major info dump there. Right at the beginning of the book, as a prologue, when I don't even feel any story connection yet? Well it's just boring to me.
> 
> Every single thing in those 2 paragraphs could be relayed to the reader during the actual story itself & in much more interesting ways.



To give it a bit of technical analysis, compare it to (for example) the Star Wars opening crawl:



> It is a period of civil war. Rebel spaceships, striking from a hidden base, have won their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire. During the battle, Rebel spies managed to steal secret plans to the Empire’s ultimate weapon, the DEATH STAR, an armored space station with enough power to destroy an entire planet. Pursued by the Empire’s sinister agents, Princess Leia races home aboard her starship, custodian of the stolen plans that can save her people and restore freedom to the galaxy….



83 words. This prologue names one character, two organizations, and one object. And only _one word_ (Leia) in the entire crawl is a word the audience might be unfamiliar with. Everyone's already going to know what an empire is and what rebels are. "Death Star" is a new term but we know both those words and it's easy to envision what it might be.

Phin's prologue is 168 words (twice as long) and introduces *thirteen* terms:

* Olymphin
* RiÃ³n
* Sylphs
* Elf Battles
* the Five Realms
* Mystics
* New Songs
* Saolo
* Nuolo
* Elf Knights
* dekems
* Dark Elfs
* Hylmena

Most readers (myself included) are going to have their eyes glaze over upon reading the prologue. With so many new concepts introduced all at once, it's almost impossible to absorb any of it.


----------



## Phin Scardaw (Jun 6, 2012)

Benjamin Clayborne said:


> Phin's prologue is 168 words (twice as long) and introduces *thirteen* terms:
> 
> * Olymphin
> * RiÃ³n
> ...



I think you're stretching a bit on that one: a good deal of these "new terms" are easy enough to puzzle out: New Songs, Sylphs, Mystics, Five Realms, Elf Battles, Dark Elfs, Elf Knights. Anyone picking up a fantasy book should be familiar enough with the genre to not see these as confusing new terminology - or so I would hope. 

As for the rest, they are all pretty much defined in the prologue, which is its essential purpose. 

It's certainly an interesting experiment to see how others are reacting to the opinions about prologues. I was pointing out that while a lot of people on MS seem to be saying that info-dumps in prologues are to be avoided, such a thing can be very effectively used, such as in the Star Wars films. 

And I wouldn't expect preceding text in a film to be much longer than what they put to use, but I believe that what I've written is quite short for a book and hopefully tolerable. If a reader can't make it through two paragraphs they probably have ADD and should spend less time playing video games.


----------



## T.Allen.Smith (Jun 6, 2012)

If the reader can't get through 2 paragraphs it's your problem not theirs simply because you'll have no readers.

An agent or editors time is even more valuable. One paragraph in and they're likely to put it in the circular file. 

It is essential to hook them whether they're a reader, agent, or editor. The only way you can even think otherwise is if your an already published name with a fan base willing to tolerate it.


----------



## Benjamin Clayborne (Jun 6, 2012)

Phin Scardaw said:


> I think you're stretching a bit on that one: a good deal of these "new terms" are easy enough to puzzle out: New Songs, Sylphs, Mystics, Five Realms, Elf Battles, Dark Elfs, Elf Knights. Anyone picking up a fantasy book should be familiar enough with the genre to not see these as confusing new terminology - or so I would hope.
> 
> As for the rest, they are all pretty much defined in the prologue, which is its essential purpose.



I agree that several of the terms are made up of individual words readers will recognize (ok, so "Elf Knights" are elves who are knights, easy enough), but there's still a bunch of made-up words, and I don't agree that they're all defined by the prologue. Having read through a couple of times, I still don't know what the RiÃ³n is, what Olymphin means, whether RiÃ³n or Olymphin is one of the Five Realms, why "Mystics" would use songs, let alone engineer things (engineering implies science and discipline, not mysticism), what the difference is between the Saolo and the Nuolo, how the Dark Elfs fit into it, or who exactly it is that formed the Hylmena (I think it's the Dark Elves?).

It's a lot of concepts all at once, and it's not explaining much of anything, and I've read it four times and I'm still vague on a lot of it. And if you'd like to tell me that I just have ADD and play too many video games, I suppose that's your prerogative, but that wouldn't really be supported by the evidence of my life. 



> It's certainly an interesting experiment to see how others are reacting to the opinions about prologues. I was pointing out that while a lot of people on MS seem to be saying that info-dumps in prologues are to be avoided, such a thing can be very effectively used, such as in the Star Wars films.



Like I said, the _A New Hope_ prologue introduces a grand total of four concepts, and zero made-up words (Leia is actually a real-world name, just not a common Western one). It's not much of an infodump. (It also has catchy music going along with it, which helps. If there were no music, it would be a lot less interesting.)


----------



## Lord Darkstorm (Jun 6, 2012)

The original question I think was about should it include background information the main characters didn't know.  Benjamin makes a good point, and if we just step back from the concept of prolog, it comes more to a question of providing information that only the reader will know for a good part of the story.  The real question is: what will the reader miss out on if they don't get information that no one else in the story knows either?  

This is a common thing, since prolog questions come up regularly and the same arguments happen over and over.  The reason this keeps happening is that some people feel that the reader can't possibly enjoy the story without all the background first, or a good chunk of it.  I'd liken this to being required to read the Silmarillion prior to reading lotr.  I couldn't muddle through that _after_ reading lotr.  If a prolog is of a quality that it is as good as the main story, has some form of significances to the reader (not to indulge the author), then a prolog is probably fine.  



> As I said above, one really effective way of using a prologue is to let the reader know something in advance that the MC doesn't know. What is the effect of this? There are probably several but the main two are to set up a pleasurable expectation in the mind of the reader, but more importantly, to inspire tension/drama in the mind of the reader as s/he watches the MC walking obliviously into peril.



I have to say this would only be true if the information is incredibly interesting.  Which would be rare, and something you have not used yourself...more likely it will spoil the suspense of what is going on while the reader keeps asking when the main character will find out.  This is similar to a frame setup, that is overused too often.  Start out at the end to try and convince the reader that your story is actually going to be good...more and more I find it would have been better if the story had just been told outright.  I'm still skeptical of the frame setup used by Patrick Rothfuss in his series.  In the second book there was never a time I really had any concern that anything really bad would happen to the main character (death, maiming, or other nastiness) since I knew that in the present he was physically fine.  This cost was tension the story might have had without that knowledge of the future.

Everything we do has tradeoffs, I find it more of a challenge to let the user learn about the world the characters live in as the story progresses, instead of trying to shove it all up front at the reader before they have even decided my story might be worth their time.


----------



## R.S.Robertson (Jun 6, 2012)

Actually, my original question was a statement, but it's fine that you saw it as a question as I probably should have phrased it as one.  The statement was that the prologue I have planned occurs twenty-some-odd years before the actual story and in a different world from the one where the first couple of chapters happen.  

My feeling on this particular prologue is that it would let the reader know that there is more to the story coming down the line.  What I have at this point doesn't mention anyone or anything that is going to show up for several chapters and even then the actual events are unknown to almost everyone that they effect.

That being said, I have wavered heavily toward both sides of the fence on using the prologue.  Some days I think it's a bit of a cheep shot and that it's not fair to my story or to the reader while other days I think it might actually be of interest and serve a purpose.  In all honesty, I won't know if I'm going to include it until I'm finished with the first book.


----------



## Lord Darkstorm (Jun 8, 2012)

> My feeling on this particular prologue is that it would,let the reader know that there is more to the story coming down the line.



To me, this says you have some doubts the story will be enough to keep the readers interest.  If this is the case, I'd suggest looking at what makes you doubt it is going to be enough.  Even without reading it, (and this has nothing really to do with a prolog) I would suggest not including it.  You don't need it, the reader doesn't need it, and you should let your main character(s) have their time in the spotlight without the shadow of something that you imply they might never really know themselves.  Some unknowns are just fine, assuming that the characters don't know and no one else does either.  If it is too big of a mystery that it causes believability issues, then find a way of providing more in the story.  If not, then you'll be fine and your story will be too.


----------



## RedMorningSky (Jun 30, 2012)

I like prologues but I've heard that a lot of people skip them. It's silly to me because if you're investing the time in reading the book then it would make sense to actually read the book. But if people are prone to not read it then I guess writers need to be careful to make sure what information they include, as not to include anything too important that people will be lost if they miss it.


----------



## ALB2012 (Jun 30, 2012)

I have no problem with prologues and I do not understand what the fuss is about. I got into a heated discussion on that very subject on the amazon forums. When I finally got someone to answer "Why" they said they were often info dumps, which can be true but we  often it sets the scene. Really if you are going to read a book, read it. You are not going to go. "Oh chapter & they are always crap, let me skip it."


----------



## ALB2012 (Jun 30, 2012)

Steerpike said:


> It comes down to personal tastes, of course. I'm all for going with your own vision of the story. That said, as a reader I'm not a fan of prologues. I've been known on many occasions to put a book back on the shelf when I see a prologue in it, particularly if it is more than a couple of pages long. It seems to me a prologue, by definition, is something that comes "before" the story. I'd rather the author just get on with the story.
> 
> I've bought books with prologues, of course. Some were very good. In other cases, they were boring as hell. In still other cases I don't know because I skipped them to get on to the actual story



Why? Surely that says if the prologue is that bad the story will be. I have skipped them but usually only in books I have read before. I tend to give up reading full stop if a book fails to hold my attention, prologue or not.

Often I find the prologue has useful info that is relevent however may detract from the action- really are you going to want Bob the Warrior reminiscing about happy days 30 years ago before he was exiled just as he was about to kill the dragon. Ok exageratting but you know what i mean


----------



## ALB2012 (Jun 30, 2012)

T.Allen.Smith said:


> Ok, here's my opinion. It's meant to be constructive....
> 
> Yes, you have a major info dump there. Right at the beginning of the book, as a prologue, when I don't even feel any story connection yet? Well it's just boring to me.
> 
> Every single thing in those 2 paragraphs could be relayed to the reader during the actual story itself & in much more interesting ways.



Hehe I disagree, but I think this is one of those questions were there is no right or wrong answer. Personally I am going with usuing prologues in my stories- if you dont like it dont read them. If the prologue does go on for 20 pages then yes it is probably too long but I think it is a personal choice. I think the example cited is short enough to provide info, a few times I have read books with a distinct lack of info and I sit thinking why- what is the background. Maybe that is just me.


----------



## T.Allen.Smith (Jun 30, 2012)

If you read all of the comments in the thread you will notice that I said I do love a good prologue. It just has to be done right.

To me doing it right means that you're giving some critical information that can't be delivered in the meat of the story.

It can enhance the experience but often it serves as a device for writing that doesn't strive to keep the information urgent. Some authors try to use it as a device to explain everything that will follow. Most times that's when I don't like a prologue but there are always exceptions.


----------



## ALB2012 (Jul 1, 2012)

Fair enough, I think my brain had melted by that point. So it seems some people like them- so long as there is a point to them not just an info dump which could be added elsewhere or even not at all, if used correctly they can be helpful. Some people dislike them, and some people don't care either way

I know on the amazon forums some people seemed to think prologue writing made you akin to satan;0


----------



## Steerpike (Jul 1, 2012)

IMO, there is no such thing as critical information that "can't" be imparted to the reader in the story itself. I am open to examples, however.


----------



## JCFarnham (Jul 1, 2012)

Steerpike said:
			
		

> IMO, there is no such thing as critical information that "can't" be imparted to the reader in the story itself. I am open to examples, however.



This is my view also, mostly.

Let me expand on that. I don't think using prologues for "critical information" is the right way to go about crafting one. That kind of information CAN be impart in the story proper. What I prefer they be used as (note the opinion there) is scene setting. Eg, in Sanderson's first Mistborn book. It's interesting in its own right. It's own self contained scene. It gives you the power roles straight away between the two races.

Whether you like the rest or not, I believe we can learn for this. Use your prologue to set the mood and tone, not tell the 30 years prior. Is it a murder mystery? Stick the murder there. Start chapter one with the sleuths. Romance? Something romantic but unrelated (duh?). Action/adventure? Well you get the idea... Like the precredit teaser in tv dramas.

Just a quick couple of examples there. Whether you start with a prologue or chapter one, you need to HOOK your readership with that opening. Work on that, not where you're going to put your baby.. sorry background


----------

