# Fantasy cliches to avoid



## Greybeard (Feb 21, 2011)

What are the most overused fantasy cliches?  And must these cliches necessarily be avoided?


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## willg71 (Feb 21, 2011)

I don't know if anything fantasy can be construed as cliche and everything about fantasy is cliche. the word Fantasy is in itself a reference to all things cliche. It's not like you can compare it mystery cliches, ergo the butler did it. the mystery and magic of the fey is so varied in fiction and in lore that it continuously evolves thew the decades. Fantasy in a sense, is allowed to brake the rules by it's inexplicable nature. In my previous works, I use elves, halflings, orcs and humans. Bare in mind though, I've given them new names, and new foundations for their genesis. It was necessary, as the works to which I refer are more SI/FI based, with strong overtones of a fantasy world structure. in the end though, those creatures are what they seemed to be. It helped the reader visualize them, based on what they already had as a point of reference from films or books. I would like to throw in a but there, so here it is. Be deceptive and creative with your cliches. Say you got a copper dragon and it's protecting it's  hoard near a rocky forest entrance. no one bothers it because who wants to put their butt on the line for a Forrest that cant be developed or a treasure containing nothing but copper junk. In truth the dragon is really a wood nymph, using magic to hide her appearance. The copper junk and rocky forest is really just an illusionary ruse, to prevent interlopers from discovering the well of souls or whatever. All of that, to me was cliche, But I mad up a few subtle deviations with no one the wiser I think. Now I'm not going to write a whole story to prove a point but sufficed to say, the tale would continue to evolve and change. The new elements are necessary to surprise and engage the reader, while the same old tricks gives the reader his point of reference so as not to keep him completely in the dark. Man I really rambled on there didn't I?  I don't know if that was of any help but I'm just to sleepy to proofread any of it. goodnight to all, this was a fun topic.


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## Legerdemain (Feb 22, 2011)

Nothing is too popular to make your own.  The trick is to avoid NOT making them your own.  Define what "elf" means in your works, or what a "gnome" is.  A "gnome" in your world could be a short sprite that likes to set fire to things.  Who knows?  Just make sure it's not based on other works, and I would be certain it would turn out original and hopefully wonderful as well.


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## ZealPropht (Feb 22, 2011)

About the only thing I would consider cliche would be the whole "child of prophecy" thing, or the standard Luke Skywalker set-up: kid from a rural town is surprisingly adept when it comes to magic, swordplay, etc. and loses his adopted parents/guardians, then embarks on a quest of epic proportions with a Wise Old Person to right the wrongs of the world with the help of a band of rag-tag adventurers (namely, a princess in disguise, a thief/smuggler/prostitute with a heart of gold, and a perky/annoying sidekick). The villain may or may not turn out to be the hero's long-lost father/uncle/second-cousin's-best friend's-former roomate.

I'm sure there are other story set-ups that have been used to death, but this is the main one that springs to mind. I don't think there's anything wrong with using such a set-up, just be aware that some readers might look at it and say, "What, this again?" 

I think "original" ideas are hard to come up with, and not necessarily the wisest choice when it comes to writing. I know that as a reader, I prefer story structures I'm familiar with. Stray too far into weird new concepts, and the author is liable to lose me along the way.


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## Meg the Healer (Feb 22, 2011)

ZealPropht said:


> About the only thing I would consider cliche would be the whole "child of prophecy" thing, or the standard Luke Skywalker set-up: kid from a rural town is surprisingly adept when it comes to magic, swordplay, etc. and loses his adopted parents/guardians, then embarks on a quest of epic proportions with a Wise Old Person to right the wrongs of the world with the help of a band of rag-tag adventurers (namely, a princess in disguise, a thief/smuggler/prostitute with a heart of gold, and a perky/annoying sidekick). The villain may or may not turn out to be the hero's long-lost father/uncle/second-cousin's-best friend's-former roomate.



I think that this the most widely used concept. And I know Star Wars is the one that comes to mind the most (probably because of our generation) - but this was true even for the Arthur legends for the most part. A rag-tag group of individuals united under a King (who at first didn't want to be king) who try to create a utopia in Camelot and then go off on a quest for the Holy Grail which leads to betrayal and the death of the Hero.

Harry Potter could also fall under this category as well even though there were a few twists along the way, but ultimately the structure is the same. A boy who has no parents, who is mentored by the Wise Old Person to right the wrongs before his death, with the help of an annoying sidekick and an overachieving know-it-all. 



ZealPropht said:


> I'm sure there are other story set-ups that have been used to death, but this is the main one that springs to mind. I don't think there's anything wrong with using such a set-up, just be aware that some readers might look at it and say, "What, this again?"


 
Which begs the question....how much of an original idea can we, as writers, have anymore?


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## ZealPropht (Feb 23, 2011)

Meg the Healer said:


> Which begs the question....how much of an original idea can we, as writers, have anymore?



I think part of the problem is a lot of authors believe in attempting to redefine the genre every time they set pen to paper. They think that if they follow one of the tried-and-true "formulas" it will somehow lessen their work because it's "not original." In the end, what's more important: starting everything from scratch in an attempt to stand out, or telling an interesting tale? 

Like I said earlier, I'm perfectly fine with reading a story with a structure I've seen dozens of times before. A road trip is a road trip; you're still following the characters from point A to Z. What matters is the _how_ and the _why_. If I don't like the characters, or the setting in which they're traveling, I don't care how "original" the rest of the story is. I'll probably never finish the book.

That isn't to say that one shouldn't at least attempt to bring something new to the table, whether it's a spin on a classic trope or a new magic system, etc. just to keep things fresh. But I think it's an unrealistic goal to be 100% original. Most everything has been written already. It's our job, now, to take what we know and add our own flavor to it.


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## Meg the Healer (Feb 23, 2011)

ZealPropht said:


> That isn't to say that one shouldn't at least attempt to bring something new to the table, whether it's a spin on a classic trope or a new magic system, etc. just to keep things fresh. But I think it's an unrealistic goal to be 100% original. Most everything has been written already. It's our job, now, to take what we know and add our own flavor to it.


 
I concur!

Which is probably why we have 12 different renditions of "vampire" and "elf".....


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## Ravana (Feb 25, 2011)

I think what's most important is to avoid overused story patterns. No single element is "cliche" all by itself–though some are more so than others. "Elf" and "vampire" are, in the end, nothing more than ways to describe characters; it's what you do with those characters that matters. "Misunderstood loner" is far more cliche than either, regardless of species. "Weapon that eats souls" is likely to wander into cliche, unless you find inventive ways to use it; still, it's just a story component. 

Story lines that are, in my experience, badly overused (and often used badly):
(1) Rescuing the maiden from the dragon or Snidely Whiplash.
(2) Defeating the incarnation of ultimate evil. (Where do you go from _there_? Is this "the end of history"?)
(3) Innocent childlike beings, or actual children, saving the world… particularly from incarnation of ultimate evil.
(4) Magic bad; barbarian good.
(5) Magic bad; [insert anything else here: say, religion] good.
(6) Vampire as tragic lover. (6A: Any tragic love story. But that's more a pet peeve, which is why it doesn't get a separate number.  )
(7) Unspeakably horrible elder being almost unleashed upon world, but stopped at last moment by… whatever. Innocent childlike barbarian maiden, perhaps.
(8) Unimportant person discovers he's really a prince. (Or whatever: Eddings' _Belgariad_ and the Harry Potter books both use this motif. More broadly, any rags-to-riches story, e.g. Jack and the Beanstalk.)
(9) Fulfilling prophecy.
(10) Struggling against fulfilling a prophecy and failing.
(11) Magical portal that allows someone from "real" world to access "fantastic" one… often repeatedly. (Narnia, of course… a similar mechanism was used by Edgar Rice Burroughs for his SF "John Carter of Mars" series. Lewis Carroll had the decency to have his looking-glass only work once.)

Those are just off the top of my head; there are plenty of others that could be suggested, I'm sure. Does that mean you can't use any of them? Of course not. I've written stories where I deliberately included cliches, often multiple ones, for the sole purpose of playing with them… though there's no reason they have to be present for the purpose of "play": they can be perfectly normal story elements. What I'd say you want to avoid is the appearance that you're actually taking one of the above seriously, _as the core of your work_: do that, and there's a strong chance your reader will think "I've seen this before." 

So, instead, have a childlike vampire with no romantic tendencies whatsoever go around promulgating a fake prophecy, with the intent that people will buy into it and cause the desired result to come about. Have the incarnation of ultimate evil intervene at the behest of a magic-using dragon to prevent an unspeakably horrible elder being from being released thanks to ignorant barbarians breaking the spells that contain it. Have the soul-eating weapon consume souls only very slowly, and due to proximity rather than being inserted into a body (counterproductive: the soul departs the body too quickly for more than a light snack), thereby compelling the misunderstood loner carrying it to become a social butterfly–or at least gadfly. Rescue the elves from Snidely Whiplash. 

No, you don't need to redefine the genre with each story; just _don't_ use a formula. Whenever you do find yourself using elements you've seen before–which, as has been mentioned, is almost unavoidable–use them in ways you haven't seen them used before.


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## JCFarnham (Feb 28, 2011)

I think as long as a novel doesn't read like a cheap rip off of the Lord of The Rings I'm perfectly happy to read it, similarly I hope I'm missing all these trappings in my story-- for example, although my "legendary-mage", the Nine Stars are rather Tolkien inspired at the base of it [thats what I get for watching the extended LotR films in a marathon of sorts heh], I hope to build them into something far more interesting, and more importantly gritty haha.


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## Philip Overby (Feb 28, 2011)

I see this on the NaNoWriMo forums quite a bit.  People are concerned their characters are cliche'.  Or if they're a Mary Sue or Marky Moo or whatever.  I don't think it matters that much.  If you take a cliche' character and somehow make them interesting then kudos to you.  If you take a cliche' setting and make it awesome then hooray for you as well.  

If you look on TV Tropes for about 5 minutes you will find that someone did your idea already.   

Zombies are cliche' but people keep making money off them.  Vampires are cliche' but people still keep writing about them.  Knights, dragons, elves, dwarfs, wizards, witches, goblins.  All cliche'.  A lot of these things are cliche' for a reason:  because they're popular.  

I say use cliches, put your own personal twist on them, and write your story.  Worrying about if your noble knight is a cliche' may take away from the story you want to tell.  So write about your noble knight.  Just don't give him a white horse.  Give him a blind zebra.


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## Chilari (Feb 28, 2011)

Yeah, I agree with Phil. The problem with cliches isn't that they're done a lot, but that they are done BADLY a lot. Putting a new spin on a cliche is one way to get around this, or actually using cliches deliberately to lead readers to assume certain things about the characters, only to turn it all on its head, can make rerally great stories; but ultimately it's all on your skill as a writer, not the cliches and tropes you use or try to avoid.


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## Ophiucha (Feb 28, 2011)

There are very few clichÃ©s that can never be used again, though there are a few that need a very keen eye and experience to be dared touched. I don't necessarily think you even need to "put a twist" on a clichÃ© or trope in fantasy in order to use it. Do you want a princess locked up in a tower with a dragon? Fine. You can _justify_ it, but it doesn't have to be anything more than that at its core. For instance, giving the princess a background, a reason to be in this tower, giving the handsome knight who comes a reason to be here, having them know each other prior to this scene... none of that is really a "twist", it's just something extra. I don't have to make the princess a witch or the knight an ogre for the scene to be alright.


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## Amanita (Feb 28, 2011)

I have some cliches I like to see and some I really hate. 
My favourite "cliche" is the "character discovers magical ability they never expected to have gets into trouble because of it"-storyline. I'm using this one myself.
I'm not worried that this will make the story to cliche however. I rather think I need a few things to have fantasy readers feel "at home" there.
My main character's home city also doesn't have the usual fantasy-political setting. It's not "rural paradise threatend by evil" or "poor people struggling under evil ruler". The nobility has been chased away about a hundred years ago and the strict social roles and gender roles are being questioned by more and more people. The people the main character has to do with most are at the forefront of this change and yet accepting her magic which is taboo in their society is still too much for most of them. This story is not about saving/preserving the status quo. 

Cliches I really hate are the prophecy that already determines how the story ends. That was one of the things that spoiled Harry Potter for me. I would really have preferred to have Harry act du to his own free will and not because he's supposed to be the only one able to do so because of some prophecy. The same goes for any other story.
Another cliche I hate and which often comes up in the stories I seek out because of my "favourite" chliche is the "outsider character who is bullied by the others but has much more powerful magic"-cliche. 

I also dislike humanoid species whose behaviour is completly determined by their species such as werewolves can be and vampires and orcs often are.
I don't think elves or any other non-human races are cliche by themselves they don't have to be anymore than humans. Neither do I think that fantasy stories require dwarves and elves however.


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## Meg the Healer (Feb 28, 2011)

Amanita said:


> Cliches I really hate are the prophecy that already determines how the story ends. That was one of the things that spoiled Harry Potter for me. I would really have preferred to have Harry act du to his own free will and not because he's supposed to be the only one able to do so because of some prophecy. The same goes for any other story.


 
But in most stories - the prophecies are self-fulfilled. Even Dumbledore pointed out - had no one ever overheard Trewlaney would Voldemort have ever attacked Harry or his parents? Probably - because he was an evil man - but he specifically went after them because of the prophecy.


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## JCFarnham (Feb 28, 2011)

Meg the Healer said:


> But in most stories - the prophecies are self-fulfilled. Even Dumbledore pointed out - had no one ever overheard Trewlaney would Voldemort have ever attacked Harry or his parents? Probably - because he was an evil man - but he specifically went after them because of the prophecy.


 
And intriguing point!

This proves that with the right amount of craft any cliche can be used to great effect. What I find is the main issue to be is, most badly-used tropes/cliches happen because the author was too lazy to think things through logically, or simply went "the cool rule route" ie, its cool to have an old wise wizard mentor, or whatever. The trick in my opinion is to stay true to your characters in that, if you find yourself struggling to make your "cool plot bunny" work, it probably means it is never going to because the character simply aren't the right ones for it. Being sensible and working things out reasonably and thoroughly lead to a well-used cliche.


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## Mdnight Falling (Mar 5, 2011)

Drow and things in the underworld are evil, the good guy always wins, Magic users pwn everything unless they get touched by something else. There is ALWAYS a mortal falling in love with an immortal. These should be avoided... they are obvious and played out. Hell make a goblin be the hero >.< Make Mages magic only work on certain days LOL... Better yet, don't worry about what other people think your story should be... Write the story in your heart, cliches and all


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## Telcontar (Mar 8, 2011)

I submit to you the following:

http://www.rinkworks.com/fnovel

Meant for entertainment as much as actual education, but succeeds in both. The most important thing to remember is that a cliche is only a cliche when done badly. There are only a handful of general plot lines in the world (and even fewer in the world of fantasy) so don't worry overmuch about originality.


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## At Dusk I Reign (Mar 13, 2011)

Dark Lords. If there has to be an over-arching bad guy, at least give some motivation as to why he's so evil. I've become rather sick of beings whose only reason for existence is so the hero can eventually overcome him/her/it. At least the villain in Tad Williams' Memory, Sorrow & Thorn had a reason to be grumpy.


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## Telcontar (Mar 13, 2011)

Easily my most _hated_ cliche is The Chosen One. I will tolerate it if the rest of the story is good enough, but generally speaking if one character is the key to the salvation of your whole world (or your whole anything - country, city, kitchen, whatever) I'm putting the book down.


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## Chilari (Mar 14, 2011)

I dunno, it is was something as trivial as a kitchen, it could be quite funny. Especially if there was a Chosen One for lots of different things. You know, if someone was Destined to save that tree from getting cut down or stop a developer from demolishing that old house, etc.


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## Philip Overby (Mar 15, 2011)

I like Chilari's idea.  If there was a Chosen One for everything, it could be like a socialist society of Chosen Ones.  Reminds me of City of Ember, where each kid was randomly assigned a job once they reached a certain age.

I wish life was really like that.  Then I could finally be the Chosen One of Ice Cream Truck Drivers like I always dreamed.


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## James Chandler (May 23, 2011)

At Dusk I Reign said:


> Dark Lords. If there has to be an over-arching bad guy, at least give some motivation as to why he's so evil. I've become rather sick of beings whose only reason for existence is so the hero can eventually overcome him/her/it. At least the villain in Tad Williams' Memory, Sorrow & Thorn had a reason to be grumpy.



This has always been on my most despised cliche list, because it is almost always a variation on Tolkien. At the same time, it has been used successfully over and over again. While I do not like the use of the Dark One form the Wheel of Time, I still enjoy the series.


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## Derin (May 25, 2011)

In my opinion, any cliche is fair game so long as it's not cliche for cliche's sake. If the story evolves naturally and the end result has similarities to other stories, that's good. If you throw in dragons and secret long-lost princes and highly skilled standoffish warriors disgraced by some past crime they may or may not have been framed for because you think that's what fantasy stories are meant to have, that's not good.

I tend to go along with any story if I like the writing and the characters, whether the plot is unique or not. (Although it helps to offer at least one thing different to other fantasy stories; a new play on a species or an unusual philosophy, for example.) My exception is the "surprise" twist of the main character being secretly related to the Big Bad and/or their mentor, which always irritates me.


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## Black Gate of Mordor (Jul 14, 2011)

Cliches are simply things that have been successful in the past, and because of that success are over-used by worse authors, and over time the reader's tolerance for them becomes shorter and shorter. Then you reach our time, where most readers probably won't read a book about Good vs. Evil because it's boring now. Over-written. Then you have others who really don't care what it's about, if it's written well they'll still read it.


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## DameiThiessen (May 22, 2012)

Ravana said:


> Magical portal that allows someone from "real" world to access "fantastic" one… often repeatedly. (Narnia, of course… a similar mechanism was used by Edgar Rice Burroughs for his SF "John Carter of Mars" series. Lewis Carroll had the decency to have his looking-glass only work once.)



Well, there's A) All characters exist within a magical world that the author creates, B) Person from the real world travelling over to another magical world, or C) Person in the real world getting tangled up with magic in the real world.

Pretty much all fantasy does one of these three, or a combination of them. I don't think it's fair to call them cliche. Certain elements of them might be - like that fact that fantasy islands only seem to be about a mile wide yet contain 6 different biomes - but each by itself isn't that bad.


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## gavintonks (May 26, 2012)

I am posting this in a few threads as I have become to notice that many people consider a "travelogue through their imagination" is a story. It is not the imagination is purely the substitute for characters within a well crafted and entertaining story. This is not creating a game it is writing and entertaining and gripping story that may or may not exist somewhere but it it the story that must be real first.,


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