# Epic Epithets en EspaÃ±ol



## Ban (Feb 17, 2017)

As some of you might know, (because I keep talking about it) I am currently writing a story set in an Atompunk world. Think of the 1950s with its good sides and less good sides and add aliens and sci-fi technology to it. That's essentially what the world is like. The story is a crime story set in a city where lots of hispanic people live, most of them refugees from a major war. As the story is about crime, I want to create a large ensemble of 'colorful' characters. When looking at the real world the most interesting vigilantes and criminals tend to have equally interesting epithets, so I want my characters to also have these. The problem I am facing is that I can't speak Spanish, nor can I find a good site listing historic, hispanic bynames and nicknames. If you know of a good site or know some cool names I could use, please feel free to respond. 

Thanks


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## skip.knox (Feb 17, 2017)

Did you try "historic spanish names" ?


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## Ban (Feb 17, 2017)

I just did, but I don't get any results that really help me. "historic spanish names" only shows me lists of spanish names, but I'm looking for epithets in spanish. Bynames like: "The great" or "the strong" for example (Although I'd prefer more modern and interesting bynames/nicknames). I should also mention that I am searching from the Netherlands so my results might be different than yours.


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## TheKillerBs (Feb 17, 2017)

By "hispanic" do you mean actually Spanish or do you mean Mexican?


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## Ban (Feb 17, 2017)

TheKillerBs said:


> By "hispanic" do you mean actually Spanish or do you mean Mexican?



The people in the story are mostly argentinian, chilean, peruvian and bolivian. I'm not familiar enough with spanish to know how much the spanish used in each of those countries is different from castillian spanish, so I just put all forms of spanish under the general term "hispanic".


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## skip.knox (Feb 17, 2017)

>nor can I find a good site listing historic, hispanic bynames and nicknames. If you know of a good site or know some cool names I could use,

I must have misunderstood.

How about "spanish bynames nicknames"


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## Ban (Feb 17, 2017)

Spanish nicknames gives me a few good lists in spanish, but for some reason google refers me to lists of hispanic racial slurs whenever I try epithets  and to lists of normal names when I try bynames. Maybe I should just look for lists of english gangster bynames and let loose google-translate.


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## Insolent Lad (Feb 17, 2017)

You might look at lists of Spanish/Iberian monarchs, many of whom had nicknames such as el Sabado (the Wise) or el Guapo (the Handsome).


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## TheKillerBs (Feb 17, 2017)

Banten said:


> The people in the story are mostly argentinian, chilean, peruvian and bolivian. I'm not familiar enough with spanish to know how much the spanish used in each of those countries is different from castillian spanish, so I just put all forms of spanish under the general term "hispanic".



Oh, I see. Assorted South Americans. The Spanish they would use among themselves would be the formal standard Latin American variety, which is not all that different from Castilian, except for a few words (and the 2nd person plural pronoun _vosotros_ largely being replaced by _ustedes_). They each would have their own local varieties, mind, but considering how widely the vocabulary varies among them they'd just default to the standard.

Now, Insolent Lad is right that if you want to use epithets such as 'the great', your best bet would be the monarchs. Side note: 'the Great' could be translated as _el Grande_, such as Herod the Great being _Herodes el Grande_ in Spanish, or as _Magno_, such as Alexander the Great being _Alejandro Magno_. Side note 2: _El Sabado_ means 'the Saturday'; 'the Wise' would be _el Sabio_.

Often-foreign monarchs notwithstanding, most Spanish epithets are/were tied to places. Rodrigo DÃ­az *de Vivar*, also known as El Cid, for example, was born in, well, Vivar. Francisco HernÃ¡ndez *de CÃ³rdoba*, both of them, hailed from CÃ³rdoba, and so on.


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## Ban (Feb 18, 2017)

That's alot of stuff I didn't know yet, thanks! It's good to know that they speak a version of spanish largely similar to castillian. That way I don't have to worry too much about getting words and grammar wrong. Not that I can speak castillian, but I understand the basic structure of the language. 

And I hadn't even thought of using epithets tied to places. I will be making atleast a few place-tied names of my own now.


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## TheCatholicCrow (Feb 18, 2017)

Banten said:


> Spanish nicknames gives me a few good lists in spanish, but for some reason google refers me to lists of hispanic racial slurs whenever I try epithets  and to lists of normal names when I try bynames. Maybe I should just look for lists of english gangster bynames and let loose google-translate.



For the love of all that is good, don't do that. 

Spanish nicknames often sound like insults even when they're not. Many that English speakers consider racial slurs are not considered offensive in Spanish (for instance : Negrita (meaning black girl) is in no way related to the N-word, Chino (meaning Chinese) is used for literally any Asian, and of course there are many others for people of different Latin American countries... I forget which one but I think it might be Hondurans that are called something that translates to Sh*tface- because their face is ugly enough to look like, well, you get the point). 

Anything Gangster related is going to be tied closely to LA Spanish (largely influenced by Mexican Spanish which means it'll be regional slang that South Americans would never use. Mexican Spanish is irritating that way.) 

There is such a thing as "Standard Latin American Spanish" which, in my opinion, is actually easier to learn than some of the other forms. As already noted, Castillian Spanish is more formal and has an extra verb tense (Vosotros - a plural you ... meaning roughly "you guys") ... they also sound like they're lisping as every "S" is a "TH". 

In Argentina, the Spanish also sounds weird - every "Y" sound (including the double L) becomes a "Sh" so a sentence like "Quiero ir a la playa."(ply-ya) sounds like "plasha". 

I've never heard a Bolivian speaker ... but Peruvian and Chilean have the easiest and clearest dialects (IMO). They're less reliant on nicknames and slang than Mexicans but less formal than Argentina & Spain.


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## TheCatholicCrow (Feb 18, 2017)

Spanish isn't that difficult of a language to pick up (German and French are way harder) ... so if Latino cultures are so closely tied to the story you want to write (and may I say, thank you - it's about time Latinos are included in a story like that) you might consider trying to learn a bit of the language. You should be able to audit college classes for free (you'd be able to learn all about the cultures that way too) or if that's too inconvenient, try DuoLingo.com/. It's free 

For many Latinos (at least for Mexicans) it's not uncommon for women to be named Maria and men Jesus ... but still go by different names. I recently learned that my uncle's legal name is Jesus ... we've always known his as David. I know another woman where every one of her sisters is named Maria ... but they all go by middle names. 

Many Spanish names are cut down to shorter nicknames (like William and Billy) - Enrique = Kiki, Ignacio = Nacho, Joseph or Jose = Pepe ... there are others but I'm drawing a blank ATM.   

Other nicknames will be things like "Viejo" (old man), gordo (fatty), esqueleto (skeleton / malnourished), etc. 

I have a great aunt and uncle that I literally don't know their names ... they've gone by Chito & Chata my whole life.


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## TheKillerBs (Feb 18, 2017)

I can't tell the difference between the Peruvian and Bolivian dialects. They sound exactly the same to me.


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## Ban (Feb 18, 2017)

Thank you CatholicCrow. That's a lot of stuff that I didn't know yet. I am definitely going to use this information in the naming. Also thank you for the suggestions. I was looking for a nickname for a character who's very skinny. Esqueleto will fit nicely.

I think you're right about it being best for me to learn at least some basic spanish. I'm fairly advanced with french, at least when it comes to reading. Hopefully these languages are close enough together to have atleast some decent amount of intelligibility. 


I'm not sure if it matters in this context, but when I said "Gangster names" I was referring to the 1920s-1950s type of gangster names such as Lucky Luciano and Scarface, not the modern variety.


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## TheCatholicCrow (Feb 18, 2017)

Banten said:


> Thank you CatholicCrow. That's a lot of stuff that I didn't know yet. I am definitely going to use this information in the naming. Also thank you for the suggestions. I was looking for a nickname for a character who's very skinny. Esqueleto will fit nicely.



Flaco would be another option. (of course - an A instead of O for women)


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## TheKillerBs (Feb 18, 2017)

TheCatholicCrow said:


> In Argentina, the Spanish also sounds weird - every "Y" sound (including the double L) becomes a "Sh" so a sentence like "Quiero ir a la playa."(ply-ya) sounds like "plasha".



Also they use 'vos' instead of 'tÃº' as the 2nd person singular pronoun and generally speak like Don Corleone.


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## SumnerH (Feb 19, 2017)

TheCatholicCrow said:


> As already noted, Castillian Spanish is more formal and has an extra verb tense (Vosotros - a plural you ... meaning roughly "you guys") ... they also sound like they're lisping as every "S" is a "TH".



It's not so much an extra tense as an original one that fell out of favor in Latin America.  Other Spanish-speaking places (e.g. Equatorial Guinea) also use vosotros, but don't have other late-era Castillian features like the "lisp".  

And there are parts of Spain, especially in Andalusia, where vosotros isn't generally used--though somewhat confusingly, they'll often use the vosotros conjugation with the ustedes pronoun ("ustedes estÃ¡is" instead of "ustedes estan" or "vosotros estÃ¡is"), depending on the local dialect.


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## TheCatholicCrow (Feb 20, 2017)

SumnerH said:


> It's not so much an extra tense as an original one that fell out of favor in Latin America.


Of course, you're right. Spanish did originate in Spain... But since it's one of only a select few to use it out of the 21 Spanish speaking nations in the world, I'm going to go ahead and stand by "extra"  Everyone else seems to be getting along fine without it. To be fair, I'd call "Thy" and "Thine" an extra form too. I'm sure there's a reason it started but it seems like a unnecessary distinction that doesn't need to be made. (Can you tell I'm biased towards Ustedes? hahaha ... or given the topic ... jajaja) 



> They'll often use the vosotros conjugation with the ustedes pronoun ("ustedes estÃ¡is" instead of "ustedes estan" or "vosotros estÃ¡is"), depending on the local dialect.


Wow - that is confusing! I binged _Isabel_ last year & now you have me wondering which tenses they used. Hmm ...
Of course, Spain uses some different vocabulary too ... If I remember correctly, there's some Arabic influence in words like "Ojala" ... while Latin America has some additional influences from Native languages like Quechua (Nahuatl and a few others in Mexico too).   

Not going to lie. Mixing the two would definitely confuse the heck out me. I think it's easier to just use Usted(es) as the defaults rather than Tu or Vos ... A little formality and respect never hurts ... but then I mostly learned it in college so I'd probably feel differently if I grew up using a single dialect.  

Don't tell my abuela but ... I still like Chilean Spanish best


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## Chessie (Feb 20, 2017)

Banten said:


> The people in the story are mostly argentinian, chilean, peruvian and bolivian. I'm not familiar enough with spanish to know how much the spanish used in each of those countries is different from castillian spanish, so I just put all forms of spanish under the general term "hispanic".



Being Hispanic, let me comment on the flaw here. Hispanic and Spanish are two completely different things, although we speak the same language and understanding one another is debatable at times. European Spanish sounds differently from the dialogue I speak (Panama) or that Mexicans speak or Chileans or Dominicans speak. We use different words for certain things, express slang and emotions in words that others don't understand, etc. Our cultures are similar but different. PLEASE do not think that just because we're all spicy and speak Spanish that we're all the same. No. We're a proud people that don't like to be lumped in one area. That's...rather insensitive, honestly.

The Spaniards are Europeans. Mexicans are Hispanic. If I were you for this project, I'd latch on to Mexican dialect and use that as the common denominator. It'll be less formal than European Spanish and a more recognized flavor of the language.


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## Ban (Feb 20, 2017)

Chessie said:


> Being Hispanic, let me comment on the flaw here. Hispanic and Spanish are two completely different things, although we speak the same language and understanding one another is debatable at times. European Spanish sounds differently from the dialogue I speak (Panama) or that Mexicans speak or Chileans or Dominicans speak. We use different words for certain things, express slang and emotions in words that others don't understand, etc. Our cultures are similar but different. PLEASE do not think that just because we're all spicy and speak Spanish that we're all the same. No. We're a proud people that don't like to be lumped in one area. That's...rather insensitive, honestly.
> 
> The Spaniards are Europeans. Mexicans are Hispanic. If I were you for this project, I'd latch on to Mexican dialect and use that as the common denominator. It'll be less formal than European Spanish and a more recognized flavor of the language.



It was not my intention to lump any groups together. The story simply deals with a large war that was fought in South America. For the sake of the story they are all "Hispanic" refugees. This is not me thinking that these countries are all the same with the same culture, it is just me talking about these cultures in relation to my story. Similarly I would just call Denmark, Sweden and Norway Scandinavia if that makes sense in a given context. I don't know how I would call these people otherwise. Perhaps "Latin" is a better term to use. Although that seems equally broad.

The story also purposefully doesn't have any Mexican refugees/migrants because I want to avoid obvious real-world events. Before people have stated that the Mexican dialect differs more from the argentinian/chilean/bolivian and peruvian dialects than European spanish does, so I don't know what I should do now.

Haha Maybe I should just not use any spanish and write sentences like: "Look over there Billy" said Javier in spanish. That might make me giggle at the very least.


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## Insolent Lad (Feb 21, 2017)

TheKillerBs said:


> . _El Sabado_ means 'the Saturday'; 'the Wise' would be _el Sabio_.



Oops, I should have looked it up instead of using hurried memory...or did 'el Sabado' reign just before 'el Domingo?'


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## SumnerH (Feb 23, 2017)

Chessie said:


> Being Hispanic, let me comment on the flaw here. Hispanic and Spanish are two completely different things, although we speak the same language and understanding one another is debatable at times...
> The Spaniards are Europeans. Mexicans are Hispanic.



Typically in English (including in Webster's and in US government usage. as well as the usage of cultural advocacy groups such as the Hispanic Society of America and the Hispanic Association of Colleges and Universities) "Hispanic" includes Iberians while "Latino" excludes them.


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