# I ordered (another) sword.



## Anders Ã„mting (Oct 1, 2012)

Well, it's that time of the year again. I've ordered a sword from a local importer - this time it's a replica of a French mameluke saber. 

As usual, I'm a bit nervous - at my prefered price point, it's sometimes hard to know what to expect. I hope I will be happy with it, though. With any luck it should arrive in the mail in a week or so.


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## FatCat (Oct 1, 2012)

Hope you enjoy it man, ordering without seeing the product can be risky. You should post some pics when you get it in, I have no idea what a French Mameluke saber is but if it looks half as cool as it sounds, well then hell yeah!


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## Anders Ã„mting (Oct 1, 2012)

FatCat said:


> Hope you enjoy it man, ordering without seeing the product can be risky. You should post some pics when you get it in, I have no idea what a French Mameluke saber is but if it looks half as cool as it sounds, well then hell yeah!



It looks like this. In fact, that's probably even the same model that I ordered. 

They are based on the middle-eastern swords used by the Muslim mamlukes who ruled Egypt. After Napoleon's campaign in Egypt and Syria, he and his army brough captured swords back to France as trophies. As they were regarded as stylish and exotic, they became very fashionable in Europe and as a result the Europeans started making their own mameluke-style sabers. You still see ceremonial mameluke swords in modern militaries. (For example the US Marine Corps officer sword.)


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## FatCat (Oct 1, 2012)

Right on, that looks really cool. I'm always fascinated how other cultural items are spread by vanity and conquest, it seems like this sword is one such example. Any reason you decided on this sword among countless others?


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## Anders Ã„mting (Oct 1, 2012)

FatCat said:


> Right on, that looks really cool. I'm always fascinated how other cultural items are spread by vanity and conquest, it seems like this sword is one such example. Any reason you decided on this sword among countless others?



Well, Napoleonic-era reproductions are a bit of a niche market (most serious collectors go for actual antiques) so there is only one or two manufacturers making functional repros. This one if by an Indian manufacturer called Weapon Edge. I've considered trying them out before but never dared take the plunge.

Now, I've been in the market for a new sword for the better part of the year, but there's only one decent sword retailer in Sweden and most of the stuff he carries isn't interesting to me. Then one day I noticed he'd started selling a few WE products. I figured this way I wouldn't have to worry about customs holding my package for two months, outrageous import taxes, etc. Out of what he offered I liked the mameluke the most, plus I've been in a bit of an orientalism mood lately. So I decided chance it. Worst case scenario, it should be relatively easy to return it.


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## FatCat (Oct 1, 2012)

You live in Sweden!? Swedish girls are the best, you are beyond lucky to live where you do. I'm sure you'll like it once you get it.


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## Dan Latham (Oct 2, 2012)

Please let us know how you like the sword. Post some photos if you can, of the sword and the bodies of your enemies.


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## Chilari (Oct 2, 2012)

I might buy a sword with the money left over from my tax refund after I've bought a new dishwasher. Some for practical, some for fun. That's sensible spending, right? There's this one Mycenaean sword I adore (third picture down, type F with hilt). Would cost me Â£290 and I don't know if I'll have that left over after the dishwasher, but we'll see. Might ask my other half to contribute as my Christmas present.


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## Sheilawisz (Oct 2, 2012)

I wish that you will get your new sword very soon, Anders =)

You are fortunate that you can own a saber and other swords like that... Here, it takes a special permit from the Military to import and own all kind of swords and especially sabers like that!!

@Chilari: That's Neil Burridge's website. I have talked to him by phone and mail, and I can tell you that he is a wonderful person and an outstanding Bronzesmith that works with the same methods that were used in the Bronze Age. It's great that you want to buy one of his swords, I hope you will enjoy it a lot.

I want a Longsword desperately, but all I have to play with are my Aluminum swords...


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## Anders Ã„mting (Oct 2, 2012)

Chilari said:


> I might buy a sword with the money left over from my tax refund after I've bought a new dishwasher. Some for practical, some for fun. That's sensible spending, right? There's this one Mycenaean sword I adore (third picture down, type F with hilt). Would cost me Â£290 and I don't know if I'll have that left over after the dishwasher, but we'll see. Might ask my other half to contribute as my Christmas present.



Cool stuff. Not a lot of people are into bronze swords.



Sheilawisz said:


> I wish that you will get your new sword very soon, Anders =)
> 
> You are fortunate that you can own a saber and other swords like that... Here, it takes a special permit from the Military to import and own all kind of swords and especially sabers like that!!
> 
> I want a Longsword desperately, but all I have to play with are my Aluminum swords...



Damn, where do you live? I know some countries have more severe sword laws than others but that's harsh. oO

Does this also apply to stage combat and practice weapons?


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## Sheilawisz (Oct 2, 2012)

@Anders: I live at the state of Hidalgo, capital city of Pachuca: 2430m above sea level in the central mexican highlands.

Yes, weapon laws are kind of harsh here... I know that there are some importers that can bring and sell real swords, how legal that is according to mexican federal laws, I am not sure. What I know is that if I tried to import a sword they would confiscate it at the customs, and without the military permits I would never lay my hands on it.

The only swords that I have seen for open sale here are stainless replicas that are not even real swords.

This makes me think twice about starting my Aluminum swords business, you see: Maybe I could sell them without trouble if they are not sharpened and I market them as "decorative sword" but again, I am not sure =(

Whatever that is a _work tool_ is legal, swords are not and especially all styles of sabers are 100% forbidden!!

Machetes are legal because they are work tools, but even though they are powerful, they lack the beauty, style and fascination power that other swords have.


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## Legendary Sidekick (Oct 3, 2012)

I have a katana, and I know how to use it.

Well... it's an iaito, technically, which is an unsharpened katana designed to shatter if you hit somebody with it. (I haven't tested this theory, for the record.) I used it for practicing iaido (Japanese swordsmanship), and there's a 99+% chance I could sheathe a real katana quickly without amputating my thumb. But with a practice sword, there's a 100% chance that I won't do worse than a pin prick, so that's why I figured a practice sword is good enough for me.

_P is for practice sword / it's good enough for me..._


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## Sheilawisz (Oct 3, 2012)

@Legendary: Even though I like all swords, I have been unable to understand why the Katana fascinates so many people...

For me, no sword is more beautiful, elegant and fascinating than the Longsword in all of its different varieties- It's a fearsome and impressive sword, also just as powerful and perhaps even more than the Katana =)

Watch video please: Longsword.

I want one like that!!


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## Anders Ã„mting (Oct 4, 2012)

Kick_ass_. It has already arrived!

I just need catch a ride and pick up the package. Will let you know what I think of it when I have it.



Sheilawisz said:


> @Anders: I live at the state of Hidalgo, capital city of Pachuca: 2430m above sea level in the central mexican highlands.
> 
> Yes, weapon laws are kind of harsh here... I know that there are some importers that can bring and sell real swords, how legal that is according to mexican federal laws, I am not sure. What I know is that if I tried to import a sword they would confiscate it at the customs, and without the military permits I would never lay my hands on it.



...Ay caramba. 

Better keep that in mind if I ever want to visit Mexico.

Over here it's prefectly legal to own any sword, though it's illegal to carry bladed weapons around in public.

I'm a bit jealous of the Canadians. Apparently Canada has no laws against carrying swords. (Though the cops can still bug you about it.)



> The only swords that I have seen for open sale here are stainless replicas that are not even real swords.
> 
> This makes me think twice about starting my Aluminum swords business, you see: Maybe I could sell them without trouble if they are not sharpened and I market them as "decorative sword" but again, I am not sure =(
> 
> ...



Still, seems to be _some _leeway here. I suggest checking with your local customs exactly what is permissable. While you may not be able to get a live longsword, something like this might get through:

The Liechtenauer Sparring Sword
AT305I - Valiant Armoury Atrim I-Beam Practice Sword - $189.95

These are training tools, designed to handle like real sword while being safe for sparring. They can't really be considered real weapons. Or, at the very least, I think a federschwert should be okay:

AA204 - Arms & Armor Fechterspiel Training Sword - $430.00
The Meyer Sparring Sword

Those are about as close to real swords as fencing foils are.



Legendary Sidekick said:


> I have a katana, and I know how to use it.
> 
> Well... it's an iaito, technically, which is an unsharpened katana designed to shatter if you hit somebody with it. (I haven't tested this theory, for the record.)



It's designed to break? Are you sure? I've honestly never head of a iaito like that, and frankly it sounds rather dangerous.

What material is it made from? Aluminum? Stainless steel? Carbon steel?



> I used it for practicing iaido (Japanese swordsmanship), and there's a 99+% chance I could sheathe a real katana quickly without amputating my thumb. But with a practice sword, there's a 100% chance that I won't do worse than a pin prick, so that's why I figured a practice sword is good enough for me.



Haven't dared try any iaido moves with my katana, as it's rather sharp and pretty long and heavy.

I have considered trying some improvised quick-draw tricks with this new saber, though, if it's suitable for such things.



Sheilawisz said:


> @Legendary: Even though I like all swords, I have been unable to understand why the Katana fascinates so many people...



Well, they are pretty nice swords, no more or less. A bit overhyped, sure, but once I got over that I started to see the appeal.



> For me, no sword is more beautiful, elegant and fascinating than the Longsword in all of its different varieties- It's a fearsome and impressive sword, also just as powerful and perhaps even more than the Katana =)
> 
> Watch video please: Longsword.
> 
> I want one like that!!



"Powerful" is kind of a tricky word to use about swords. Longswords are designed to be used in a certain way, and katana are designed to be used in a different way. It's not really a matter of power.


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## Mindfire (Oct 4, 2012)

Sheilawisz said:


> @Legendary: Even though I like all swords, I have been unable to understand why the Katana fascinates so many people...



I'll give you a hint: It's foreign. And it has the whole samurai/ninja mystique going for it. You can't beat that. Not to mention how many awesome katana users we have in pop culture: Leonardo of the Ninja Turtles, Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow of the GI JOE franchise, Deadpool, Ryu Hayabusa, the list goes on. The katana has become synonymous with clever, stealthy badasses. (And to a lesser extent, a strict code of honor.) The longsword meanwhile is generally associated with knights, and while knights are also cool, they aren't shrouded in mystery like the ninja and don't have the exotic appeal of the samurai, so they and their weapons tend to be downplayed.

(Brief disclaimer: I'm no martial arts expert. I'm just a novice, so take all I say with a grain of salt.) 

However, I prefer the look and feel of Chinese swords over Japanese or European ones. I have a Katana (Iaito) and it's near impossible to do all the tricks you see in the movies if you're actually trying to fight someone. In _reality_, the katana isn't designed to be flashy. It's designed for quick, direct attacks that really aren't that elegant or pretty. A confrontation between two katana users will often end with a single strike, thus the mantra, "one cut, one kill." While that is an efficient and lethal combat style, it doesn't really suit my personality. I prefer Chinese swords (especially the dao) because they're just more elegant weapons and if you're really good, you can get away with being flashy. (Although it's not recommended.) Granted, they also take a lot more skill and practice to use effectively. So it's a bit of a tradeoff. But personally, I just like the way the dao looks. Avatar: The Last Airbender, specifically Zuko, is responsible for making it my favorite sword of all time. The jian (Chinese straightsword, used by Sokka) is a close second, with the katana in third.








Truly they are things of beauty.

But it needs to be said that there's really no such thing as a "better" sword, only better _swordmasters_.


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## Anders Ã„mting (Oct 4, 2012)

I has the sword now! 

Man, this is beautiful. I don't think I could have hoped for better, at least not for this price.

First impression, the only thing I out-right don't like is the squareish grip, but I can probably get used to that. It's also a bit difficult to draw since the langets hug the scabbard a bit too tightly. That might fix itself in time, though.

On the plus side, the blade is perfectly straight and unblemished, the fittings all seem solid, the scabbard is gorgeous, and the whole thing just seems like good deal.

It's also kinda heavy, and probably less responsive than this type of sword is supposed to be. Almost katana-esque, actually. It's absolutely not the most unweildly sword I've owned, though, and the heft isn't so bad as to impede handling. I specifically asked to get mine dull, but if sharpened, I bet it's a hellacious cutter.


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## Anders Ã„mting (Oct 4, 2012)

Mindfire said:


> I'll give you a hint: It's foreign. And it has the whole samurai/ninja mystique going for it. You can't beat that. Not to mention how many awesome katana users we have in pop culture: Leonardo of the Ninja Turtles, Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow of the GI JOE franchise, Deadpool, Ryu Hayabusa, the list goes on. The katana has become synonymous with clever, stealthy badasses. (And to a lesser extent, a strict code of honor.) The longsword meanwhile is generally associated with knights, and while knights are also cool, they aren't shrouded in mystery like the ninja and don't have the exotic appeal of the samurai, so they and their weapons tend to be downplayed.



I'd like to elaborate on this. Remember when I said that the Mameluke sword became fashionable because they were regarded as stylish and exotic, to the point where the Europeans started copying the style?

That's pretty much the same thing as what we see with the katana now - it's the _in vogue _sword of our age. At this point, it's actually a mistake to think of the katana as a "Japanese" sword, because there are highly skilled of smiths in America and Europe who make these swords with just as much skill as the Japanese. The katana has actually been assimilated into western culture the same way the mameluke sword was two-hundred years ago.

This is actually something very common. The rapier originated in Spain, but quickly became wildly popular all over Europe. Later, as a fashion changed, it's dominion was replaced by the Dutch smallsword. Meanwhile, the saber is thought to have migrated westward from countries like Poland and Hungary. Even the Romans started adopting the long iron swords of their barbarian auxillaries. Fashion and a fascination for "exotic" weapons has always moved new types of weapons across cultural borders. I think it's all very interesting.


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## Mindfire (Oct 4, 2012)

Anders Ã„mting said:


> I'd like to elaborate on this. Remember when I said that the Mameluke sword became fashionable because they were regarded as stylish and exotic, to the point where the Europeans started copying the style?
> 
> That's pretty much the same thing as what we see with the katana now - it's the _in vogue _sword of our age. At this point, it's actually a mistake to think of the katana as a "Japanese" sword, because there are highly skilled of smiths in America and Europe who make these swords with just as much skill as the Japanese. The katana has actually been assimilated into western culture the same way the mameluke sword was two-hundred years ago.
> 
> This is actually something very common. The rapier originated in Spain, but quickly became wildly popular all over Europe. Later, as a fashion changed, it's dominion was replaced by the Dutch smallsword. Meanwhile, the saber is thought to have migrated westward from countries like Poland and Hungary. Even the Romans started adopting the long iron swords of their barbarian auxillaries. Fashion and a fascination for "exotic" weapons has always moved new types of weapons across cultural borders. I think it's all very interesting.



Indeed it is. Although somehow I always thought the rapier was French. I've been deceived by the 3 Musketeers. (Who never use muskets for some reason.) lol


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## Sheilawisz (Oct 4, 2012)

Yeah, I understand that point about _exotic culture_ swords resulting more attractive and fascinating, but I do not feel that way at all... From my point of view, the Longsword and other European swords represent my continent's history and my cultural legacy, so I like them much more than anything from other cultures =)

Sword fights with European swords also usually ended within a matter of seconds, because having the best technique would allow you to deliver a fatal stab or a fatal cut quickly... It's not like the movies, where they bang their swords making a lot of noise and all that stuff.

@Anders: Thanks for the links, but I am not interested in practice swords. My Aluminum swords are strong enough to be used as real weapons to stab and slice soft targets, but I want a real Longsword just because I am in love with that style of sword.

Congratulations for your new saber, enjoy it as much as you can!!

Have you ever tried bronze swords like the ones Neil Burridge makes?


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## Mindfire (Oct 4, 2012)

Sheilawisz said:


> Yeah, I understand that point about _exotic culture_ swords resulting more attractive and fascinating, but I do not feel that way at all... From my point of view, the Longsword and other European swords represent my continent's history and my cultural legacy, so I like them much more than anything from other cultures =)



Good for you! For similar reasons, I'll always have a special place in my heart for the Khopesh. I may not be Egyptian, but it'll do until I can pay for a DNA test and find out what part of Africa I _am_ from.


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## Anders Ã„mting (Oct 4, 2012)

Mindfire said:


> Indeed it is. Although somehow I always thought the rapier was French. I've been deceived by the 3 Musketeers. (Who never use muskets for some reason.) lol



Oh, the French _loved _the rapier, but it only got to France after spreading from Spain to Italy. 

As for the musketeers (who really did use muskets, actually) they would not have carried rapiers on duty, as it was a civilian sword exclusively used for self-defense and dueling. But since the musketeers liked dueling just as much as any other true 17th century Frenchman (which is to say _a lot_) at least the wealthier ones did own rapiers.



Sheilawisz said:


> Yeah, I understand that point about _exotic culture_ swords resulting more attractive and fascinating, but I do not feel that way at all... From my point of view, the Longsword and other European swords represent my continent's history and my cultural legacy, so I like them much more than anything from other cultures =)



Nothing wrong with that. The longsword is certainly gaining a lot of popularity as the historical European martial arts movement grows. 

I'm just saying, if you like swords in general, there is no reason to not appreciate the katana for what it is. 



> Sword fights with European swords also usually ended within a matter of seconds, because having the best technique would allow you to deliver a fatal stab or a fatal cut quickly... It's not like the movies, where they bang their swords making a lot of noise and all that stuff.



Well, that actually varied a bit. _Most _swordfights were probably over fairly quickly, but some could drag out. A particular Italian duel is supposed to have lasted four hours. (!) And as far as longswords are concerned, it probably also depended on wether the fighters were wearing armor or not.

As for clanging swords together, that's not _entirely_ inaccurate - for example the British baskethilt styles do look somewhat remiscent of Hollywood swashbuckling, and 19th century swords often had unsharpened fortes for very rigid edge parries.



> Have you ever tried bronze swords like the ones Neil Burridge makes?



Nope. Bronze swords isn't really my thing. In fact, pre-medieval weapons isn't quite my cup of tea in general.


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## Mindfire (Oct 4, 2012)

Anders Ã„mting said:


> Oh, the French _loved _the rapier, but it only got to France after spreading from Spain to Italy.
> 
> As for the musketeers (who really did use muskets, actually) they would not have carried rapiers on duty, as it was a civilian sword exclusively used for self-defense and dueling. But since the musketeers liked dueling just as much as any other true 17th century Frenchman (which is to say _a lot_) at least the wealthier ones did own rapiers.



Actually, I was referring to the fact that in all the 3 Musketeers adaptations, we hardly ever _see_ them use their muskets. lol


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## Chilari (Oct 4, 2012)

Yes I'd noticed that too. But then I laugh to myself because even if they did use muskets, the British rifles (not to mention superior powder and the fact that the British trained with live fire) would eventually trounce them anyway.


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## Legendary Sidekick (Oct 4, 2012)

@Sheilawisz, I was already into Japanese martial arts (karate) and samurai movies, so the katana seemed to be the next logical step.



@Anders, I don't know if that's true that the iaito would shatter so easily. It's what my classmates told me.

But good call on the quickdraw thing, if you never had lessons. (I assume you didn't since you're not used to the weight.) Without the proper training, I wouldn't do a quickdraw with a sharp blade. It's actually the sheathing that's dangerous. You let the back of the blade slide along the skin between the index and thumb on your left hand (before thrusting it into the sheath), and the loose skin is close to the opening of the sheath. If you bring the blade back too far, you stab your own hand. With my iaito, I just felt a little silly the one time I did that. Didn't even need a Band-Aid though. A classmate of mine--who was way more skilled than I--drove himself to the hospital after doing the same thing with a real katana. The next week, he did it again! I was happy with my iaito. I still looked cool sheathing it, or maybe I looked nerdy... but either way, I didn't worry about life-changing injury.



@Mindfire, in iaido, you stick to moves that actually make sense in battle--nothing flashy. But at a tournament last spring, I saw some 30+ female karate black belts doing weapon katas which included katana twirls, jumping slashes and slash-kick combos. That was flashy... and way harder than any iaido kata I learned.

I honestly prefer the iaido katas because they're about quick kills, and easy to remember so I could always visualize while performing. Shiho-giri (4 direction cut) is a fun one, though... and a little flashy. You smash one opponent's wrist with your partially drawn hilt, stab the guy behind, overhead slash the first guy plus the one to his right, then chase down the remaining guy. So-giri (all cuts) is a five hit combo, which is overkill, but still a fun kata.


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## Sheilawisz (Oct 6, 2012)

I am very attracted to bronze swords because they are so different to swords from later periods of history and, even though they are believed by many to be weak and fragile, bronze swords were and are actually very strong and respectable weapons =)

As a metal, bronze has a special magic that steel and other metals do not have: The copper and tin melting together to give birth to a new metal, it's unusual colour and legendary history of the Bronze age... I cannot really explain it, but I would be delighted to own a Bronze Sword.

The creation of Steel is kind of mystical too, but Bronze is... different.

Will you share pictures of your new Saber, Anders? I am very curious!! Today I will cut and stab my old pumpkin with my first Aluminum Sword =)


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## Legendary Sidekick (Oct 6, 2012)

I like the idea of cutting a pumpkin with a sword.

At a bachelor party, I wanted to have my brother cut a Pepperidge Farm cake with my iaito, but sadly, the bride-to-be (who crashed the party) and one of the guys (a friend) were both very drunk and were angry drunks. I told my brother to get the sword out of sight.

Just to give you an idea of what a dork I've always been, MY idea of a bachelor party was to eat at an Americanized "Japanese" hibachi then come to my house for cake and watch The Big Lebowski. Note the lack of excessive alcohol (not my fault we ended up at a bar) and lack of naked women. (Does Julianne Moore in a flesh-tone body suit count?)

But I'm not trying to hijack the thread, so, yes... let's see that sword!


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