# Trouble describing something



## Ireth (May 25, 2013)

One of the characters in my WIP is a human guy named AilÃ­n who possesses the Sight, which allows him to see through Fae Glamour and, in a very limited way, some other magical illusions. At the point in the story I'm at now, AilÃ­n comes across an evil elf disguised as a human. Since the disguise is magical but not Fae-related, AilÃ­n can only see glimpses of the elf's real appearance for a split-second at a time. This results in the elf's appearance constantly flickering back and forth between the disguise and the real thing, which gives AilÃ­n quite the headache. My issue is how to describe it in the narrative without sounding clunky. At this point, I've got this:



> [...] AilÃ­n took a few steps closer, staring at the human stranger in bafflement.  It was like looking at two similar but distinct images one after the other in rapid succession.  It couldn't be just the haze of the wards that made him flicker like that.



But I've also thought of saying something like this:



> [...] AilÃ­n took a few steps closer, staring at the human stranger in bafflement.  He flickered, as though AilÃ­n was looking at two similar but distinct images one after the other in rapid succession.  It couldn't be just the haze of the wards that did that.



Which would you say is smoother? Or should I try another way? Feedback is much appreciated. Thanks!


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## A. E. Lowan (May 25, 2013)

I would say the second one sounds smoother, but it leads me to ask questions (as usual for me  ).  Is the stranger aware he is moving closer to him?  Is it safe for him to do so?  That distinct a movement would draw attention to Ailin, I would think.  Maybe it would be better for him to just lean in further.

I am reminded of the old children's illusion game where you draw two pictures, one on either side of a piece of paper, and then spin the pictures around by a string, making the two pictures into one, flickering image.  Would Ailin have played a similar game as a child?


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## Ireth (May 25, 2013)

aelowan said:


> I would say the second one sounds smoother, but it leads me to ask questions (as usual for me  ).  Is the stranger aware he is moving closer to him?  Is it safe for him to do so?  That distinct a movement would draw attention to Ailin, I would think.  Maybe it would be better for him to just lean in further.



Well, here's the broader context of the scene. The evil elf, named Jarl, enters Faerie through a magical portal, under the guise of being held prisoner by a group of black elves serving the main villain. The MC, a Fae named Cadell, finds them and kills the black elves, then takes Jarl to the castle where Ailin resides with the rest of the human characters. They meet a good elf named Vidar, who is temporarily living in the castle; Vidar, not speaking Cadell's language, calls Ailin (who is bilingual) over to translate so they can find out what's going on. So to answer your question, Jarl knows Ailin is there, and it is safe for Ailin to get closer (especially since there's a stone wall between them, and several feet of space at first, before Ailin is called over to translate). Jarl isn't going to hurt anyone at this point; he's only in Faerie as a spy for the main villain.



aelowan said:


> I am reminded of the old children's illusion game where you draw two pictures, one on either side of a piece of paper, and then spin the pictures around by a string, making the two pictures into one, flickering image.  Would Ailin have played a similar game as a child?



It's quite possible such a thing has existed as far back as the Viking age (when the story takes place), so that's a probable yes. ^^


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## ecdavis (May 26, 2013)

Number 2 seems smoother, the wording reminds me of viewing an image by campfire light where the shadows distort it slightly.   An image reflected in a pond full of ripples would be another thought that your wording provokes in my mind.


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## Ireth (May 26, 2013)

ecdavis said:


> Number 2 seems smoother, the wording reminds me of viewing an image by campfire light where the shadows distort it slightly.   An image reflected in a pond full of ripples would be another thought that your wording provokes in my mind.



That's not really what I'm going for. There is a sort of smoke-like haze effect going on already due to the magical wards that are also between Ailin and Jarl when they meet, but that has nothing to do with the flickering Ailin sees, which is because of the Sight.


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## Addison (May 26, 2013)

Both examples remind me of old movies, how there are lines across the screen and brief flashes of black or light from missing frames. But something tells me that's not what you're going for. 

Try something more....ethereal, I guess. Like how the glamour briefly breaks like fire through smoke, or the glamour rippled away from his face....I don't know. Try something more fey-like I guess is what I'm trying to say. (I'm still not awake.)


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## Guru Coyote (May 26, 2013)

Hmmmm... flickering. I'm not really happy with the idea of the magic creating a "constant flickering effect." That, to me, feels more like a SciFi Holofield gone bad.

How about... the effect having slightly different appearance when viewed directly... or from the corner of your eye? That would be easy enough to describe, and it would also be harder for the char to notice at first. Just a thought.


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## Ireth (May 26, 2013)

Well, I'm intentionally going for an immediately visible effect, so that Ailin knows something is wrong about Jarl from the moment he sees him, and thus never trusts him as the others do. He will warn others about his suspicions as well, and spy on Jarl to figure out what he's up to. Unfortunately, Jarl will find him out, and punish him for seeing too much by taking away his eyesight completely. That's the plan, at least.


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## Asura Levi (May 26, 2013)

You could also put the two images, one over the other, both visible. It would give the spy a eerie appearance. And it would be notice straight away.


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## Ireth (May 26, 2013)

Asura Levi said:


> You could also put the two images, one over the other, both visible. It would give the spy a eerie appearance. And it would be notice straight away.



That's pretty much the result of the thaumatrope effect aelowan described -- on a thaumatrope, both images are visible when the paper is spun, but they look like a single image (albeit one which flickers quite a bit).


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## Guru Coyote (May 26, 2013)

Ireth said:


> That's pretty much the result of the thaumatrope effect aelowan described -- on a thaumatrope, both images are visible when the paper is spun, but they look like a single image (albeit one which flickers quite a bit).



It's the flickering I think gives this a technical feel. For it to flicker, some kind of frequency/cycle is implied. I don't know about your magic system, but a *constant* cycle feels off to me. The only thing nature could do to come close to a flicker are ripples on a water surface... 
Therefore, I do like the "Two images at the same time" suggestion.


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## Ireth (May 26, 2013)

Guru Coyote said:


> It's the flickering I think gives this a technical feel. For it to flicker, some kind of frequency/cycle is implied. I don't know about your magic system, but a *constant* cycle feels off to me. The only thing nature could do to come close to a flicker are ripples on a water surface...



And now you see why I'm having so much trouble with this. XD A ripple effect really isn't the same thing as the flickering I have in mind. Ailin only sees each image for a fraction of a second at a time, about as fast as a blink, and there's no pause in which he sees either image for any longer than that. I'm not sure I can really describe exactly what I'm going for in any clearer way than I've already done.


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## Guru Coyote (May 26, 2013)

Ireth said:


> And now you see why I'm having so much trouble with this. XD A ripple effect really isn't the same thing as the flickering I have in mind. Ailin only sees each image for a fraction of a second at a time, *about as fast as a blink*, and there's no pause in which he sees either image for any longer than that. I'm not sure I can really describe exactly what I'm going for in any clearer way than I've already done.



Ah! A blink. Now... how about this: he sees one image right after he blinks, then the other. 
Ok, that way one image would be the dominant one. 

Let's see... how about like the light playing through leaves in a forrest... with the wind constantly moving the leaves. The light patters would shift 'constantly' ... but not in a 'constant' rhythm.


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## Addison (May 26, 2013)

So it's something that makes him do a double take and go "Whu?" Maybe the glamour changes in the right light, like how dogs' and cats' eyes gleam. Only instead of gleaming Ailin sees a hole or such in the glamour. Moves his head, it's gone, moves it back and it's back.


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## Ireth (May 26, 2013)

Guru Coyote said:


> Ah! A blink. Now... how about this: he sees one image right after he blinks, then the other.
> Ok, that way one image would be the dominant one.



I think you misunderstand me a bit. _Every single change_ is as fast as a blink, almost like the effect of a strobe light (which obviously doesn't exist in this story's setting). It's not like he sees one image for a few seconds, blinks and then it changes, then blinks again and it changes back. The image itself goes blinkblinkblinkblinkblink, all the time. Ailin's own natural blinking probably only exacerbates his confusion.



Guru Coyote said:


> Let's see... how about like the light playing through leaves in a forrest... with the wind constantly moving the leaves. The light patters would shift 'constantly' ... but not in a 'constant' rhythm.



Still not quite what I'm going for. I want constancy.



Addison said:


> So it's something that makes him do a double take and go "Whu?" Maybe the glamour changes in the right light, like how dogs' and cats' eyes gleam. Only instead of gleaming Ailin sees a hole or such in the glamour. Moves his head, it's gone, moves it back and it's back.



Interesting idea, but I'm not looking for ideas on a different effect. I'm just trying to describe what I've already got in mind. ^^ Thanks though!


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## Guru Coyote (May 26, 2013)

So you want constancy. I get that. But! The only way to describe this effect (any effect) is by comparing it to some other phenomenon known to the characters. Something that can be experienced in their world.
They only ways found to describe it are all... more mechanical/technical. They'd all work in a steampunk setting.

I just can't think of a natural phenomenon that would create such an effect... so basically you have here something that Can Not Be Described in the words/concepts of the characters, they have no words for it.
Maybe... can you work with that? Something like that would be utterly astounding for anyone who hasn't experienced it before.

Or, well, you can always go with the "apining a coin" idea: if you spin a coin, the two images on each side 'merge' ... Hmmm. That's something the char might have seen before.


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## Ireth (May 26, 2013)

I think it might just be easiest to go with the character saying/thinking "I have no idea how to describe this, what is going on?" or something to that effect. But then that might leave the reader confused and going "okay, author, what IS going on?"


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## Guru Coyote (May 26, 2013)

Ireth said:


> I think it might just be easiest to go with the character saying/thinking "I have no idea how to describe this, what is going on?" or something to that effect.


That was kinda what I was going for


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## Ireth (May 26, 2013)

Guru Coyote said:


> That was kinda what I was going for



Well, yes. But as I said above, I still need to make it clear to the reader, do I not? Therein lies the trouble.


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## Guru Coyote (May 27, 2013)

Ireth said:


> Well, yes. But as I said above, I still need to make it clear to the reader, do I not? Therein lies the trouble.



Yeah, true. So it might be best just just describe the effect in very simple and objective term... and not filter it through the char's perception at all... apart from mentioning that he has not idea of what this is.
Aw shnucks, I'm not helping, am I.


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## Justin Cary (May 27, 2013)

Of the two I prefer the second description. You could also explore various metephores that occur in nature such as "light glinting off the smooth surface of a pond changing his appearance..." or " like flickering shadows that stab at Ailin's eyes giving a distinctly different form in quick flashes..." Just a few quick example, but you get where I'm going with them I think.


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## Justin Cary (May 27, 2013)

Of the two I prefer the second description. You could also explore various metephores that occur in nature such as "light glinting off the smooth surface of a pond changing his appearance..." or " like flickering shadows that stab at Ailin's eyes giving a distinctly different form in quick flashes..." Just a few quick example, but you get where I'm going with them I think.


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