# How To Make the Plot Advance at All Times



## Philip Overby (Oct 26, 2013)

I had a pretty good criticism a while back that it felt like in my story nothing was happening. While I was doing character development, the other two key aspects, advancing the plot and building the world, were more sparse. So there was lots of character interaction, but a lack of clarity about the setting and where they story was actually going.

I already knew this sort of thing before, but for some reason I wasn't doing it. But I agree that you writing should do the most work possible, meaning you should do all three at the same time when at all possible.

Sometimes in fantasy novels in may feel like the plot is spinning its wheels in an attempt to show the world more or allow for character development. But why not have the plot at least developing as you go?

*What are some of your techniques to keep your plot moving so the reader doesn't get bogged down?* 

I think it is especially important for fantasy writers because we tend to write longer fiction so it's good keep things engaging and moving.


----------



## Chessie (Oct 26, 2013)

I read somewhere once that if you start to get bored, figure out a way to make things worse. Works for me every time and I usually am able to make things flow.


----------



## A. E. Lowan (Oct 26, 2013)

With us, the key is the outline.  We use very detailed outlines so we know not only what each chapter needs to accomplish, but exactly how down to in some cases small sections of important dialogue and stage blocking.  But, even with this "pre-writing" done, sometimes I'll find as I'm drafting that even if I'm hitting all my marks things will get a little boggy.  So I look at these characters I love, and ask myself, "How can I really screw up their day?"  And then I rub my hands together with evil glee and do just that.

All in service of the story, you see.


----------



## Penpilot (Oct 26, 2013)

For advancing plot, I use scene-sequel structure in my sections (Defining section as what one would normally call a scene). How I use it can get a bit complicated. In one section I can deal with a scene or sequel for the main plot and a scene or sequel for a subplot or subplots all twined together so they're all playing out at the same time. So there can be multiple progressions within a section. I always aim for at least two plots being addressed in a section, but sometimes there's only one. As long as you know which scene/sequel you're dealing with within that section, you know you're progressing the story in some way. As long as I'm clear about the goals in the scenes and clear about the possible outcomes available and the choice made in the sequel, the reader will feel the plot progression.

For those uninformed about what scene sequel is here's a couple of links
jimbutcher: SCENES
jimbutcher: SEQUELS


For advancing world building, within those sequences of scene/sequel I have things play out in an interesting place in the world that is exemplar of an aspect of the world I want to show off. Eg, a scene may play out in a market place to show how commerce works in the word or to show the child thieves or the wondrous produce shipped in from across the seas. 

As for building character, it's about what they talk about within the scene/sequels. What interests them and how they perceive the world that brings out the character. How they respond to the world in terms of triggering memories brings out their past adding another layer to the character.


----------



## Philip Overby (Oct 26, 2013)

Penpilot said:


> For advancing plot, I use scene-sequel structure in my sections (Defining section as what one would normally call a scene). How I use it can get a bit complicated. In one section I can deal with a scene or sequel for the main plot and a scene or sequel for a subplot or subplots all twined together so they're all playing out at the same time. So there can be multiple progressions within a section. I always aim for at least two plots being addressed in a section, but sometimes there's only one. As long as you know which scene/sequel you're dealing with within that section, you know you're progressing the story in some way. As long as I'm clear about the goals in the scenes and clear about the possible outcomes available and the choice made in the sequel, the reader will feel the plot progression.
> 
> For those uninformed about what scene sequel is here's a couple of links
> jimbutcher: SCENES
> ...



I've actually posted about Scene-Sequel before here and I printed out copies of Jim Butcher's posts about them so I can look at them any time I'm not near my computer. So yeah, I'm all about them and they are an excellent way to keep things moving along with purpose. 

Your point about world building is a good one as well. I personally like to slowly pull back the curtain throughout the story. Hopefully the reader gets and idea of the world without me bombarding them with every single detail. I recently wrote a couple of scenes where my MC goes through a slum area and then into a fancy merchant district to show the huge differences of culture in the city. I thought that did pretty well to show the city and also allow the MC to advance the plot some by navigating through these areas and showing how other characters reacted to her.

About characters, another good point. I find that allowing them to interact with each other and their environment works best to develop them. I don't like lengthy bits of inner monologue if I can help it, but I do to do so when allowing the characters to react to what's happening around them. 

All good points, Penpilot! I use a lot of these already, but knowing the techniques and doing them correctly are two different things, I suppose.


----------



## TWErvin2 (Oct 26, 2013)

An element to keep the plot and story moving forward: Each scene should have a purpose: Resolving, Complicating, World Building, Characterization, etc. Having more than one 'thing' accomplished in each scene is beneficial.


----------



## BWFoster78 (Oct 26, 2013)

I think Terry has the right of it.  I'll state it a bit differently, however:

The key, I think, is goals.  For each scene, the author should ask:

Why does this scene exist in terms of plot?  What specific plot detail/advancement is being conveyed?  Is that detail/advancement being conveyed clearly and accurately?

Why does this scene exist in terms of character development?  What specific character detail is being conveyed?  Is that detail being conveyed clearly and accurately?

How is tension being developed in this scene?  What goal does the character have and what is the opposition to that goal?  Is the goal and opposition being conveyed clearly and accurately?

If you can't answer these questions, you need to consider either deleting the scene or doing significant revisions.


----------



## Addison (Oct 26, 2013)

Perhaps at one point of the story you became more focused on one layer and left the other three tagging along. Remember there are four layers to plot/conflict; internal, interpersonal, antagonist, external. So if at some point you don't see how the external conflict will proceed, either at all or efficiently or believably, then switch to another layer for a while. That will help the story and character development and lead to a point where the other part can catch up.


----------



## Philip Overby (Oct 27, 2013)

Thanks everyone for the suggestions so far. It's always good to get additional perspectives on ideas I already use (scene-sequel) or other techniques people use. 

I'm finding that listing out the different "steps" I need to take for each thing to be developed in a scene is working well for me. For example, if I have a character that is trying to escape a greenhouse full of deranged plants, I may do the following.

Plot

1. Goal-Marko wants to escape the greenhouse with the magic seeds.
2. Conflict-Crazed plants are attacking him.
3. Disaster-A poisonous spore blows up nearby, causing him to choke.

1. Reaction-Marko thinks he's going to die.
2. Dilemma-He can break the glass, but if he does so, the were-tigers lurking outside may attack him. However, if he doesn't break the glass, he'll choke to death.
3. Decision-He breaks the glass and will deal with the were-tigers when the time comes.

Characterization

1. Marko is brave, but often rash. He snatched the seeds when he probably should have waited for the rest of his team to act first. Now he's alone in the greenhouse and a bit confused.
2. His rashness is shown by him walking amidst the carnivorous plants without any sort of backup plan.

World-Building

1. Carnivorous plants are being maintained by a wizard farmer. He has used demonic seeds to grow them.
2. Were-tigers protect the wizard's experimental greenhouse. 

This is just a brief example of notes I may take for the scene. This allows me to make sure I hit all those beats before the scene is over. I think this works for me so far, but sometimes I forget to do it. I need to make more of an effort to do this to keep myself on track.


----------



## Penpilot (Oct 27, 2013)

That's a really good way of doing things. And from my experience, if you also keep those notes around, they really help in the editing phase if/when major changes happen. It aids in knowing what you're taking out so you can replace it or move it to some other section.


----------



## Ddruid (Oct 27, 2013)

Addison said:


> Perhaps at one point of the story you became more focused on one layer and left the other three tagging along. Remember there are four layers to plot/conflict; internal, interpersonal, antagonist, external. So if at some point you don't see how the external conflict will proceed, either at all or efficiently or believably, then switch to another layer for a while. That will help the story and character development and lead to a point where the other part can catch up.



Addison, what you said about plot and conflict having different layers was really interesting. I was wondering if you could elaborate on that. Let me guess, internal layer of conflict means the protagonist's conflict with his inner values and ideals. The next two, interpersonal and antagonist are pretty self-explanatory. But what do you exactly mean by external conflict? Do you mean the conflict between different races/kingdoms/factions that inhabit the world for example? Like wars and battles? Just wanted to confirm. 

I feel like if I keep this four layers in mind, it'll be a ton of help while I'm writing.



Phil the Drill said:


> ...a character that is trying to escape a green house full of deranged plants...



Say Phil, when can I read that scene of yours?


----------



## Addison (Oct 27, 2013)

Ddruid said:


> Addison, what you said about plot and conflict having different layers was really interesting. I was wondering if you could elaborate on that. Let me guess, internal layer of conflict means the protagonist's conflict with his inner values and ideals. The next two, interpersonal and antagonist are pretty self-explanatory. But what do you exactly mean by external conflict? Do you mean the conflict between different races/kingdoms/factions that inhabit the world for example? Like wars and battles? Just wanted to confirm.
> 
> I feel like if I keep this four layers in mind, it'll be a ton of help while I'm writing.



That's exactly right for the first three. The fourth.....meh sort of. It's not so much he world happening around the character, like my quad mates blasting their music through the wall, but it's what's happening around the character that's contributing to the story's advancement. 

Let's use Harry Potter as an example. In Sorcerer's Stone Harry read the paper about the break in. He read up on Nicholas Flammel. 

External things may be incited or brought to the hero's attention by other characters but as a consequence of something said or done. Like Hagrid slipping up and mentioning Nicholas Flammel. But really they're the purpose of the story. They're the events or objects that help to weave the hero's and villain's paths together all the way to the conflict. The sorcerer's stone, finding and killing the beast in the chamber of secrets etc.

Hope this helped.


----------



## Telcontar (Oct 27, 2013)

When in doubt, blow something up.

Chesterama basically already mentioned this, but I thought I'd expand on it.

There are plenty of variations, but the three I hear most often are When in doubt... 

1) Blow Something Up
2) Set Something On Fire
3) Kill Someone

The first two can be more metaphorical. If things are too quiet in the book, choose one of the plotlines and give it a new twist or throw a wrench in the works. I often organize my stories around a three-plot structure: the major plot, which is overarching and involves big things (think the classic World In Danger sort of thing, though obviously that's only one example) and a couple smaller, more personal subplots. Characters are in love but kept apart, character has a sick mother, character (some other personal issue), etc etc. This gives me several different threads to pull when things need to be riled up again. The main plot can stay quiet if need be and I'll just throw a wrench into the works of one of the others.

The third one, "kill somebody" is less applicable here because it has to do more with when the story has gotten "emotionally" quiet. So long as you've established some empathy for them and the death doesn't feel too contrived, such an event can really make a reader sit up and pay attention again.


----------



## GeekDavid (Oct 27, 2013)

Another thing to do is look back at earlier parts of the book and see if there are plot devices hanging around unused. If there are, use them or remove them.

The saying originated with mysteries, but it applies to fantasies too... if you have describe a gun on the mantelpiece in the first chapter, it had better go off by the last.

Note that this doesn't apply to background stuff... you can describe a painting above the mantel without making it a plot device, but guns aren't usually sitting on mantels (at least not in any of the houses I've been in), so there has to be some reason for it to be there.

I hope this makes sense.


----------



## Helen (Oct 27, 2013)

Phil the Drill said:


> meaning you should do all three at the same time when at all possible.



That's it.  A lot of things done at the same time.

Like in _Avatar_, Neytiri trains Jake, we learn about the horses and the dragons and her people and their values, their relationship advances, he changes, he's doing it to get info for the Colonel. Etc.

All of it happening in each scene, all the time.


----------



## wordwalker (Oct 28, 2013)

Doing several things at once is helpful. It's easy to fall into a feel of plot-by-numbers where each event is its own scene Because It's Important, and that can build a sense that's predictable in general and especially gives a feel that as long as you're dealing with B the A can't possibly stab you in the back. Combined events keep things lively, at least if you do them right.

But really this has more to do with keeping the basics in mind. Never forget the character's goal; if he pauses for another goal (or you pause for another character) be aware that new goal has to carry its own weight for a time. Always ask "what's the next thing he could do to get closer," and have him *do* it -- don't lose too much time in comparing options or angsting. And when the plot involves dead ends or things going wrong and setting him back, think about how long you'll take before letting him make progress again-- or else that the story itself is about how being pushed back changes things.


----------



## Addison (Oct 29, 2013)

Telcontar said:


> When in doubt, blow something up..



Uh no. If you blow something up or kill something just to make the reader and character go "uh-oh" then that's not going to advance the plot. Just because the body count goes up doesn't necessarily mean the stakes go up. A guy is found dead by the killer's MO. That's just victim #6. But say the victim is related to the hero in some way which turns the investigator's suspicions to the hero as the possible killer, then you have something. Same thing goes for something being destroyed by fire or "BOOM!". They get suck behind a police barricade because a building's on fire. Not plot relevant unless they're speeding to a rescue or a hearing to testify. Or the building is where they were supposed to go or serves some relevance to the hero reaching their goal or even the antagonist reaching theirs which pisses the hero off and spurs them to really get in there. 

Make blood and destruction relevant to the story in some one or multiple layer or a subplot.


----------



## Chessie (Oct 29, 2013)

Haha! ^^ Telcontar, I didn't mean to make things worse in that much of an extent.  I'm with Addison in that it MUST advance the plot. So when things get slow for me I think...ok, what is the worst thing that can happen while ALSO advancing the scene to the next stage of the  plot?


----------



## Jackarandajam (Oct 29, 2013)

This is all really good stuff! 

I bounce around between moving the plot forward, character building, world description, a sprinkling of backstory… when a dead spot happens in the plot, sometimes it has to be there for your story. but you can wind up the flywheel and use the empty space to address details. 
so they have to cross this huge field, miles and miles, but you're building up for a huge confrontation scene at the other side, so you want to keep it pretty chill for a second, to augment the pending firefight. dead spot… or is it? Get them walking, then start conversations. flesh out some backstory. Comment on the crazy birds. Ooh, look. A Gazmiraz Chalabthalon. My brothers favorite six legged flying mammal. BTW... he's dead, and I became a wizard to avenge him. 

Anyway, that's the way I fill in holes. 
Sometimes that doesn't work, and thats when I start carpet bombing the field with missiles that turn into giant baby Hydras.


----------



## Steerpike (Oct 29, 2013)

I do not subscribe to the idea that the plot has to be advanced at all times


----------



## Svrtnsse (Oct 29, 2013)

Steerpike said:


> I do not subscribe to the idea that the plot has to be advanced at all times



Them's fighting words! I'll go get me some popcorn.



On a serious note; would you mind elaborating? (It's a really slow day at the office)


----------



## Steerpike (Oct 29, 2013)

Svrtnsse said:


> Them's fighting words! I'll go get me some popcorn.
> 
> On a serious note; would you mind elaborating? (It's a really slow day at the office)



Sure. I've read books where the author sidetracks into extraneous issues that don't move the plot itself forward, and does a very nice job with it. In fact, I just finished the first part of Felix Palma's _M__ap of Time, _and not only does he break a number of rules (such as by directly addressing the reader, thereby breaking the 'wall' between narrator and reader), he has no problem stopping the story for a moment and digressing into some background information about a character that has nothing to do with the plot _per se_. It is well done and interesting, so it works.

Steven Erikson's characters may engage in philosophical discussions that are interesting but don't move the plot forward (in the same way Dostoevsky's characters do this to a much greater extent in a work like _The Brothers Karamazov_).

Nabokov's protagonist Humbert Humbert, of _Lolita, _digresses into various day to day observations unrelated to the plot, or even gets into his philosophy regarding his attraction to young girls.

There are all kinds of books where the author might engage in writing that doesn't advance the plot, whether to add humor, to paint a striking picture of some scene or location, to engage in philosophical musings, or for whatever other reason. 

Works just fine, as long as the author keeps it interesting.


----------



## Svrtnsse (Oct 29, 2013)

Steerpike said:


> Sure.
> 
> [...]
> 
> Works just fine, as long as the author keeps it interesting.



Cheers for that.
I'm thinking that this kind of thing that differentiates adult books from YA books (as mentioned in the article in the other thread). Does that make sense or am I catching the wrong train of thought here? I'm thinking YA would be more to the point, sticking to the story and advancing the plot, while a book geared towards adult readers might wander off into irrelevant-land for a while before picking up the trail again.


----------



## Steerpike (Oct 29, 2013)

Hmmm. Maybe, in general, but I'd say not always. Look at Philip Pullman, for example. Or even Kristin Cashore, who writes very well and in a straightforward manner, but who will also digress into more abstract musings of her characters. In any event, it seems to me the old rule of "don't bore the reader" is really the only one you have to worry about


----------



## Svrtnsse (Oct 29, 2013)

Steerpike said:


> In any event, it seems to me the old rule of "don't bore the reader" is really the only one you have to worry about



Now if only I could find readers that enjoy reading what I enjoy writing and this wouldn't be so hard.


----------



## Steerpike (Oct 29, 2013)

I'm sure they are out there. Are there published authors whose work is of similar style to what you enjoy writing?


----------



## Svrtnsse (Oct 29, 2013)

I'm sure there are as well. With the amount of people there are on the internet the issue isn't if there are any, but how to find them. As you hint, finding authors with a similar style is a good start.

I do think that things like advancing the plot and not boring the reader are important though. They're concepts I want to get a better grasp on and incorporate in my writing. I've been re-reading some of my older short stories lately. I was really happy with them at the time, but having given them some time alone has diminished the "creator's love" for them. I'm discovering that not even I am finding them all that entertaining.
It's not because of the ideas or the characters, it's just how they're written. I'm really fond of the concepts and ideas, but the presentation is lacking - to say the least. I'm toying with the idea of revising some of them to try and see what would happen, but that's a game for another day I think.

In the meantime, threads like this are a great help and inspiration.


----------



## Xitra_Blud (Oct 29, 2013)

For me, before I even consider putting a sentence of my story down on paper, I watch as a movie in my head first. I set up the beginning, middle, and end, what's going to happen what the characters are going to say, everything. I watch several times (maybe weeks to months of watching the same "movie") before I put it down on paper. If it ends up being boring or something doesn't make sense, I mess with it until I feel like it's right. I even imagine a soundtrack and lighting (this may be because I also aspire to be a filmmaker but it works all the same). My suggestion would be, try watching the whole thing first. See how you feel about it in its "movie" format, and don't write it down until the movie is finished and it's ready to go.


----------



## Jackarandajam (Oct 30, 2013)

Xitra_Blud said:


> For me, before I even consider putting a sentence of my story down on paper, I watch as a movie in my head first. I set up the beginning, middle, and end, what's going to happen what the characters are going to say, everything. I watch several times (maybe weeks to months of watching the same "movie") before I put it down on paper. If it ends up being boring or something doesn't make sense, I mess with it until I feel like it's right. I even imagine a soundtrack and lighting (this may be because I also aspire to be a filmmaker but it works all the same). My suggestion would be, try watching the whole thing first. See how you feel about it in its "movie" format, and don't write it down until the movie is finished and it's ready to go.



This is awesome and I'm gonna go do this with my book right now.


----------



## Ddruid (Oct 31, 2013)

Addison said:


> That's exactly right for the first three. The fourth.....meh sort of. It's not so much he world happening around the character, like my quad mates blasting their music through the wall, but it's what's happening around the character that's contributing to the story's advancement.
> 
> Let's use Harry Potter as an example. In Sorcerer's Stone Harry read the paper about the break in. He read up on Nicholas Flammel.
> 
> ...



Thanks for that Addison. I get it now, I think. It's not just what's happening in the world, but how does external events, big or small, affect the characters' actions and storyline. The effect could be direct or subtle. And personally, I think it's awesome that you used Harry Potter as an example. 



Steerpike said:


> I do not subscribe to the idea that the plot has to be advanced at all times






Steerpike said:


> Sure.... break a number of rules (such as by directly addressing the reader, thereby breaking the 'wall' between narrator and reader), he has no problem stopping the story for a moment and digressing into some background information about a character that has nothing to do with the plot _per se_. It is well done and interesting, so it works................................................
> 
> ...............There are all kinds of books where the author might engage in writing that doesn't advance the plot, whether to add humor, to paint a striking picture of some scene or location, to engage in philosophical musings, or for whatever other reason.
> 
> Works just fine, as long as the author keeps it interesting.




Well, now that I think of it, not all times, no. That wouldn't be necessary. But most times would be nice, I guess. Besides, to break the rules you've got to know them first.


----------

