# Poll: How it is written or What it's about?



## Trick (Oct 13, 2014)

I run into this question in some form or another quite often and wanted to see what everyone here thinks about it. I've heard it said that original ideas don't matter as long as the story is told well. I've also been told that a great idea is the heart of an author's success.

Taking for granted that the writing is not grammatically flawed beyond reason and the idea is not plagiarism, which one is more important?


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## Steerpike (Oct 13, 2014)

I'll read any book that has stellar writing. I couldn't give two figs about what it is about in terms of deciding whether to read it or not.


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## T.Allen.Smith (Oct 13, 2014)

Although a solid concept, or idea, can be an attraction for me as a reader, I agree with my feline friend.

Good writing, combined with good storytelling, is all I need.


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## psychotick (Oct 13, 2014)

Hi,

I'm sorry for me it's first and foremost about the story. I think it is for most people. Look I read sci fi and fantasy. I don't read say western or romance. I won't ever. But if it was about the writing first I would, wouldn't I?

To me writing is about story telling. The prose is just the vehicle that helps you tell that story.

Cheers, Greg.


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## Steerpike (Oct 13, 2014)

I read westerns and romance (admittedly, I've only read a few of the latter). I'd say the bulk of my reading is sci-fi and fantasy, then classics, horror, and thrillers. Then I'll go to mysteries, historicals, westerns, and lastly romance. 

I don't read blurbs about books before I buy them, so most of the time I only have a vague notion of what the story is going to be about before I start reading, which is how I like it


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## Devor (Oct 13, 2014)

It's kind of a false dichotomy.  "What it's about" sounds like a concept sentence or a book blurb.  But an author has to figure "what it's about" in every new chapter, sentence and paragraph, to the point where it's hard to separate from "good writing."  In that sense, I find the constant story choices to be far more important than the language being employed.


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## Jabrosky (Oct 13, 2014)

I voted "I can't decide".

Good or at least competent writing is without doubt necessary for my enjoyment of a book. If the writing is crap, it soils my experience. On the other hand, subject matter and premises are what draw me to a book to begin with, and things like characterization and plot solidity are just as integral to the story in their own way as prose style.


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## Svrtnsse (Oct 13, 2014)

I can't say I've actually read a book where I felt that it was so badly written that I couldn't keep going. However, I've read books where I stopped reading because I wasn't interested and then never got around to picking the book up again.

I'm still not decided about the actual question though. It feels like the two main options are really dependent on interpretation. If "idea" is just the basic idea of the book, then "how it's written" becomes everything else - including characters and how they're presented etc.
If "how it's written" refers mainly to the actual wordcrafting - how the words are chosen and strung together, the "idea" becomes everything else. It feels like there's a big potential overlap and a lot of room for personal interpretation.

I guess that's a good thing. It means we get to talk about it instead.


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## Mythopoet (Oct 13, 2014)

My perspective is that "either/or" questions are completely irrelevant to any discussion pertaining to any artform. There is no such thing as "either/or" in storytelling. It's always a false dichotomy. And false dichotomies usually lead to harmful thinking. (In this case, harmful to storytelling.) 

I have read stories where the ideas were the most attractive thing to me and I have read stories where the style or voice was what I liked best. I have read stories where I couldn't tell you which aspect was better than the other or worse than the other. Every story has to be judged on its individual merits and according to everyone's individual tastes, in my opinion.


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## Penpilot (Oct 13, 2014)

There's an author that has some of the coolest ideas and best book blurbs I've ever encountered. Till this day, each time I read a blurb, I want to pick up the book and start reading right away. But after reading one and a quarter of their books, I know I will probably never read another one of their books. Why? The writing is not even 1/10th as good as the idea promises. 

I'm not talking about mechanics either. The execution of the story idea is so lacking and in some places so stupid, I roll my eyeballs and throw the book across the room.


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## Trick (Oct 13, 2014)

Mythopoet said:


> My perspective is that "either/or" questions are completely irrelevant to any discussion pertaining to any artform.



Wow. Did you vote "I simply can't decide" then?

It doesn't have to be viewed as an either/or question. This is about taste/personal opinion. Some people will pick up and read a book just because it's about robot monkeys and others will read a book about cowboys that seems very standard just because of the quality of the writing. Obviously, the "quality writing" is a deep topic but so too could be the robot monkeys. If you're answer is, "It depends on the book." That is perfectly respectable.


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## Ankari (Oct 13, 2014)

@penpilot If you don't want to make the author's name public, could you PM it to me?


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## TheokinsJ (Oct 14, 2014)

It's a very ambiguous question, but I suppose I do lean more towards 'what it's about'. However, when you and I pick up a book and read the first page, is it the story that hooks us, or the way it is written? I think it's both- if you have a great idea but execute it terribly, then the reader might put the book down after a few pages, simply because the style and the way it's written is not appealing to them. That said, you can be a great writer, but if you don't have a strong plot and strong characters, you'll never hook the reader. As I said, I lean towards 'what it's about', simply because the thing that causes me to keep churning through the pages, are the characters I care about, an intriguing plot, not because I like well written imagery.


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## Philip Overby (Oct 14, 2014)

I tend to want to answer one way or another in these kind of discussions because I feel like "It depends" doesn't really add anything to the discussion even if it is the best answer. So in reality I'd answer "it depends" but for the sake of discussion, I voted "How it's written." However, now that I think about it, ideas stand out to me more. I like all sorts of books, but just because something it well-written doesn't always mean it's going to entertain me. I usually read for entertainment, not for enlightenment or academic reasons or whatever.  Even if a book doesn't wow me with its actual writing, if the characters and plot are good and entertain me, then I rather roll with that kind of book.

_However,_ again, well-written and entertaining is ideal and there are a lot of well-written books in multiple genres that are also entertaining. I think a well-written book might keep me a little longer, but a book with good entertaining ideas is more likely to get me to buy future books from the same person. 

For examples, I'm reading Gene Wolfe and his writing is very good. I'm also reading NOS4R2 by Joe Hill. If I had to choose one to continue reading at the moment I'd stick with Hill because his story is more entertaining and coherent even if Wolfe's writing is technically better and has beautiful prose.


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## Mythopoet (Oct 14, 2014)

Trick said:


> Wow. Did you vote "I simply can't decide" then?
> 
> It doesn't have to be viewed as an either/or question. This is about taste/personal opinion. Some people will pick up and read a book just because it's about robot monkeys and others will read a book about cowboys that seems very standard just because of the quality of the writing. Obviously, the "quality writing" is a deep topic but so too could be the robot monkeys. If you're answer is, "It depends on the book." That is perfectly respectable.



I didn't vote. And the question has the word "or" in it, so yes it is an either/or question. If you didn't want it to be, you should have phrased it differently. Or, you know, if you don't want everyone's opinion then just say so.


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## Trick (Oct 14, 2014)

Mythopoet said:


> I didn't vote. And the question has the word "or" in it, so yes it is an either/or question. If you didn't want it to be, you should have phrased it differently. Or, you know, if you don't want everyone's opinion then just say so.



This was not intended as a strict either/or construct, hence the third option but what I actually replied to you was, "It doesn't have to be viewed as an either/or question." not that it couldn't be one. If you re-read what I replied to you without believing that I was attacking you, which I wasn't, you might see that I was engaging in conversation. With the vehemence that you presented your opinion I was inclined to make sure I understood you. I then told you my possibly lacking understanding of your point of view and told you it was respectable. If I misunderstood you, I assumed you would respond with more explanation. 

This was just a way for me to see people's opinions and get feedback on a question I wonder about. I'm glad you posted and me disagreeing/discussing with you is neither an insult nor an attack.


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## chrispenycate (Oct 14, 2014)

Probably bucking the trend a little, but I come from science fiction (it's all right, I write fantasy too, so I'm justified in posting here ). And in SF a stupendous idea can cover poor characterisation, irregular plotting, a multitude of sins - take, for example Niven's 'Ringworld' (well, there are two major original concepts therein, both the ringworld itself and the fleet of worlds) which won, and deserved, almost all available awards, with admittedly most of the major writing faults. 

For me, the content is more critical than the execution. Which doesn't mean I don't appreciate writing quality and, in any other fiction genre (possibly excluding autobiography which wasn't intended to be filed under fiction), weak writing would undercut reading pleasure, and that that pleasure can definitely be enhanced by combining strong conceptualisation and good writing.

But many of the greatest works of speculative fiction have been somewhat weak on the literary front, so I am voting for those with more imagination than prose skills.


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## Gryphos (Oct 14, 2014)

Of course any writer should strive for both. But as a reader I'm more drawn to great ideas and story over great writing, to substance over style. I'd rather read a book with a fantastic story and mediocre writing than one with fantastic writing but a mediocre story.


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## Philip Overby (Oct 14, 2014)

Gryphos said:


> Of course any writer should strive for both. But as a reader I'm more drawn to great ideas and story over great writing, to substance over style. I'd rather read a book with a fantastic story and mediocre writing than one with fantastic writing but a mediocre story.



I think that nails my opinion on the head.


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## Incanus (Oct 15, 2014)

Normally, I would say that both are equally important.

But my reading experience has taught me that presentation of an idea can make or break a story.  For every book I've come across that ended up having mediocre content (in my opinion, of course), but was well written, I've come across twenty or thirty books that are the exact reverse.  I've seen countless instances of perfectly good premises for books ruined by poor prose, and sloppy writing.  In fact, I've noticed that bad writing seems to work its way into all the other aspects of fiction:  I start seeing problems with character, poorly thought out ideas, ideas applied inconsistently, boring, generic settings, etc.  Whereas great writing makes me 'forgive' other little mistakes I might see.

Thus, I voted for--How it's written.


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## Bruce McKnight (Oct 19, 2014)

Ugh, tough. It needs to be both. Am I the only one who read Name of the Wind and said "that was written great, but it didn't seem like a whole lot of exciting stuff happened"? Lies of Locke Lamora was, in my opinion, not quite the word artistry of Rothfuss (though it was close, in my opinion, and still great), but the plot felt so much more exciting. Maybe I just find getting nailed into a barrel of horse urine more entertaining than trying to play a lute with a broken string...


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## Steerpike (Oct 19, 2014)

I liked both of those, but frankly preferred Name of the Wind. I read that one straight through and put Lies of Locke Lamora aside twice before finishing


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## Incanus (Oct 20, 2014)

Bruce McKnight said:


> Am I the only one who read Name of the Wind and said "that was written great, but it didn't seem like a whole lot of exciting stuff happened"?



Definitely not.  My reaction exactly.


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## SM-Dreamer (Oct 23, 2014)

Re: Name of the Wind vs Lies of Locke Lamora - I read through the former rather quickly on my first read-through, loving it, but the latter I've come to a grinding halt at a certain point because I'm shutting my eyes and singing in the hopes that if I don't read further, bad things won't happen to characters I like (silly notion, I know).

But I like the writing and story in both.

So on topic - for me it's the story. When I pick up a book and scan the back, the cover, the first page, I'm looking for a world I can immerse into, a character I can get into, a plot I want to follow. I can tolerate mediocre writing (even writing I roll my eyes at) if the idea can keep me hooked.

I like good writing, though, too. I want good writing. But all the perfectly penned words in the world won't make up for shoddy setting, characters, and plot. I need to enjoy the book. For example, I'm currently reading a book where I love the world, and intensely curious about the plot, am attached to one of the MCs, but the writing to me... doesn't feel great, but it's ok. And I can tolerate that, because I want to know more.

And that, I think, is key.


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