# Spoiler-Fest: Star Wars VII



## Legendary Sidekick

The Force Awakens thread is awakening borderline spoilers. Let those of us who saw the movie discuss freely here.

For those of you who did not see the movie, I'm gonna post a really tall image. And you will not scroll down past the image because that's where spoilers happen!








Beyond here, there be monsters. Spoiler Monsters.


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## Steerpike

Rey is awesome.


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## T.Allen.Smith

Agreed. Like the Rey character a lot.

That metal staff she's carrying. My guess is it's a saber staff, which is a light saber blade on the end of a long pole (made of saber resistant metal). 

There must be a reason for someone in an age of starships and blaster to carry around a metal staff. My guess is sentimental value. It has some connection to her parents (likely Jedi hunted down and killed) who may be related to the Skywalker line. She may even be Luke's daughter. 

Anyway, we'll see if Luke can fix the staff, supposing I'm right, of course. 

As an adult, I saw Han's death coming, but my 6 year old's face was a picture of shock and disbelief. He was floored. Gutted. He loved Han Solo. 

Although the Kylo Ren character left a bit to be desired, I liked how he feels the pull to the light. We always hear about the seduction of the dark side, but never the other way around. I think I'll enjoy his character more as the struggle for his soul continues and Ren's relationship to Snoke becomes clear.

Lastly, on Supreme Leader Snoke.... Darth Plagueis the Wise?


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## Gryphos

T.Allen.Smith said:
			
		

> Lastly, on Supreme Leader Snoke.... Darth Plagueis the Wise?



That's what I'm thinking. Kylo Ren even specifically says something like "Snoke is very wise". It's small detail, but you never know.

In addition, have a listen to Snoke's theme, and then have a listen to the music that plays in RotS when Palpatine is telling Anakin about Darth Plagueis. Notice how similar they are?


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## Legendary Sidekick

Han's death was easily predictable (including that it would be through the torso protruding out Han's back), but not in a bad way. I loved the lighting in that scene when Rey and Finn stood and watched the inevitable. It was a Ben meets Darth moment.

Rey as the hero—I like it. She was no damsel in distress. I was expecting Han's and Leia's daughter, but Luke seems more likely. I won't be up at night concocting theories.

What really impressed me was the humor. It was subtle, like the two stormtroopers reversing their patrol when Kylo threw one of his shit fits. It was never used to throw the audience from depressive to manic—I mean when five heavily-populated moons were blown to bits, we didn't have Jar Jar Binks slip on a banana peel and cause a squadron of tie fighters to crash. Just subtle humor with appropriate timing.

I like Kylo Ren as a fledgeling villain—a Darth Vader wannabe—an ill-tempered tweener who has yet to master the force. His wound from Chewy's shot renders him almost an even match against Finn, and the force is strong with Rey. And yeah, the light is calling to him and he hates that.

Looking forward to the next. I hope to see it in the same theater, too. The seats were comfy and reclinable. Plus, they'll have a bar there by the time VIII comes out.


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## MineOwnKing

Okay,

My first impression was that the beginning was really slow. Then I realized that I've been desensitized by the modern craze for nonstop action movies.

With a young son under my wing, I get exposed to movies like Transformers, etc. Yet even adult films have become this way. The new Mad Max is pretty much non stop action.

So in comparison, this movie was different and felt slow.

But in fact, there _was_ a lot of action, and I liked it, it was just different.

Star Wars films have a history of choosing a cast of forgettable faces and this movie is no different. I think it works well with the Star Wars movies and is completely opposite of Star Trek movies, which are full of memorable faces.

I would have a hard time picking any of them out of a line up. Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher had nondescript faces when they were younger and I see the same in Rey and Finn. I don't think it's a bad thing, in fact it adds to the appeal. Joe the plumber can watch the movie and say, "Hey, I could be that guy." Versus a movie with a larger than life actor like Brad Pitt.

I think they jumped the gun on Rey's abilities.

Hopping into the Millennium Falcon and mastering flying maneuvers on a first time run doesn't seem believable, even for a Jedi.

Elite Storm Troopers are too easily killed in my opinion. There was a new image cast on the troopers that more closely resembled WWII Germany rather than just hinting at it. Instead of just following orders, now they seem to enjoy their work and have the shadow of evil on them. I think they should be harder to kill.

Almost every scene seemed to have an homage to the earlier movies. Adults will no doubt pick up on this right away. The homages took over the movie in my opinion and stifled originality. It almost felt like a remake, complete with destruction of yet another death star.

I found Ben Solo's character contrived. What is the mask even for? Is it air conditioned? It was hard to hear him in the mask and wasn't very scary looking. I'm sure there will be volumes written about his light saber. I think it was a creative idea that should have been scrapped. Looks too dangerous to use, poor design, bad idea.

Taking off the helmet was anticlimactic at best. He looks like a Harry Potter character and I was disappointed that Rey didn't finish him off. 

I will say that when Rey grabbed the light saber and turned it on, I felt like I was witness to the most memorable moment in all of film history. It felt real and really moved me.

Yet, again, with no training she gets the best of a semi-trained sith. Really cool light saber battle, just not very believable given the circumstances.

I'm sure Yoda would have had something to say about all these abilities and no training. Something like "Hmmph!"

There was a big goof up when Rey found the light saber. When did Anakin tell Obi Wan " Make sure Luke get's my lightsaber!"
WTF?

Despite my disappointments, I genuinely enjoyed the film. Once again they produced a film for the ages.

My son is 8 and he liked it, but he has been pretty quiet about it.

I saw Star Wars when I was 5. It shaped my imagination.

I don't see that happening to my son with this film.


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## Gryphos

On the subject of Rey (and to a lesser extent Finn) being able to take on Kylo Ren, I think you need to consider several factors. First off, Kylo was wounded, at full strength I reckon he would have beat Rey. Also, Finn and Rey both have combat experience. Finn was a stormtrooper, and Rey clearly learned how to handle herself on Jakku, as earlier in the film she's shown holding her own against the thugs that try to steal BB8. Of course, this wasn't enough for Finn, who, lacking in Force-enhanced instincts, got his arse handed to him and was almost killed by Kylo. But Rey had the bonus of the Force, and it was through tapping into the Force that she was able to beat him. And finally, Kylo Ren probably isn't that powerful anyway. He's still just an apprentice, shown when Snoke says how 'he needs to complete his training'. When you think about his character, he's literally just a wannabe Darth Vader, but isn't anywhere near as powerful as him.


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## Garren Jacobsen

I thoroughly enjoyed this movie. It was wonderful. I love the new lightsaber design. Not because I think it is functional but it reflects Ren's character so well. Just looking at the blade it is...unstable. The cross-guard is clearly ventilation so that the whole thing doesn't blow up. That refelcts Ren so well who is himself unstable and untrained, he is incomplete. His lightsaber indicates that it is unstable and poorly made, it is incomplete. Also there are two metal bits that protect the hand from sliding up and getting sliced off. I did roll my eyes at the new Death Star. (Oh just rebuild it and who's going to give a loan jack-hole, you? What you got an ATM on that torso light-brite of yours?). And while I do think that the death of Han was telegraphed, that face touching scene got me in the feels on the second viewing. The first viewing was me doing this:


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## Codey Amprim

I'm only going to touch on the characters on this one. As a whole though, this movie put such a grin on my face scene after scene, and for that I love this movie.
   But the writer part of me is always allowed to pick things apart.  
  Snoke:  


T.Allen.Smith said:


> Lastly, on Supreme Leader Snoke.... Darth Plagueis the Wise?


 My thoughts exactly. There is no other that fits the bill for me, nor could I see them introducing yet another dark lord at this point.  I'm really hoping that he can bring out some new dark side tricks, as Kylo already seems to have the ability to put someone in stasis, albeit temporarily, which I don't believe has been shown yet in the films. 
 My guess is that he will use Kylo's blind rage and inherited power to turn him into some sort of abomination of the force. It may be a stretch, but it's possible.
   I'm hoping that Snoke has something other than rebuilding the Death Star for the millionth time up his sleeve. The planet-sized, star-devouring machine was awe-inspiring to say the least, but all it really came to be was a Death Star on steroids. Maybe his plans will be just to eliminate Luke and Rey for vengeance's sake. 

Who knows.  



Gryphos said:


> That's what I'm thinking. Kylo Ren even specifically says something like "Snoke is very wise". It's small detail, but you never know.  In addition, have a listen to Snoke's theme, and then have a listen to the music that plays in RotS when Palpatine is telling Anakin about Darth Plagueis. Notice how similar they are?



    Thank you for this post.   

 Rey:  


MineOwnKing said:


> I think they jumped the gun on Rey's abilities.  Hopping into the Millennium Falcon and mastering flying maneuvers on a first time run doesn't seem believable, even for a Jedi.
> 
> ...
> 
> I will say that when Rey grabbed the light saber and turned it on, I felt like I was witness to the most memorable moment in all of film history. It felt real and really moved me.
> 
> ...
> 
> Yet, again, with no training she gets the best of a semi-trained sith. Really cool light saber battle, just not very believable given the circumstances.



  Rey, although her skills and character arc seemed to soar out of proportion, is still a great character for the Star Wars universe. I am quite content with her, and I honestly had to idea what to expect from just the sneak peeks we had going into this movie. 
  I will say this: When Rey ignited the lightsaber I had not had such chills from a woman character since Ã‰owyn rammed her sword into the face of the Witch King in Return of the King. Freakin' epic. 



T.Allen.Smith said:


> Agreed. Like the Rey character a lot.  That metal staff she's carrying. My guess is it's a saber staff, which is a light saber blade on the end of a long pole (made of saber resistant metal).  There must be a reason for someone in an age of starships and blaster to carry around a metal staff. My guess is sentimental value. It has some connection to her parents (likely Jedi hunted down and killed) who may be related to the Skywalker line. She may even be Luke's daughter.



 The only explanation I have to her growing into her force powers is in the title of the movie. Did the force awaken within her? Is the force that much of a morning person? 

 Without this explanation I will continue to have issues with her power spike, and how she practically defeated Kylo. The piloting of the Millenium Falcon is also wonky, but every Jedi great thus far has had incredible piloting skills. Still, I am very eager to see her progression of a character. My guess: she becomes a sort of Jedi Sentinel or Consular. 

 Most likely she is the daughter of Luke, although why he sold her off as a child wouldn't make sense, even if to hide her from Kylo and the "Knights of Ren" that we never get to see, Kylo would have to be much older by the time he went crazy and started slaughtering Jedi.  

Also, I would love to see some sort of saber-lance or staff.  

  Kylo Ren: 

 It's hard being a villain in the Star Wars universe. Having to live in the shadow of Vader, which this character takes quite literally, is really hard considering the fan base's loyalty and reverence of the original Dark Lord.   

I wish they would've developed his inner struggle of light and darkness, but keeping his story a mystery makes us crave how he came to this point.  His character progression is awkward. At first he's the definite villain, and as the story progresses, I lost the reasoning to dislike him and grew curious as to who he is. But the moment Han stepped towards the bridge, I knew what was going to make me and audiences everywhere hate him.  I see what the episode served for him, though. Not only was it his introduction into the story, but it was his final moments before descending into Sith-hood, where the light is finally overcome by the dark.   



MineOwnKing said:


> I'm sure there will be volumes written about his light saber. I think it was a creative idea that should have been scrapped. Looks too dangerous to use, poor design, bad idea.


 There has been much nerd rage spent about this very thing on the Internet, even Stephen Colbert had a piece on it. In my opinion, I think it's badass. The whole sword rather than saber feel about it has me giving two thumbs up... Even if it looks like I'd burn them both off misusing it.  



Brian Scott Allen said:


> I love the new lightsaber design. Not because I think it is functional but it reflects Ren's character so well. Just looking at the blade it is...unstable. The cross-guard is clearly ventilation so that the whole thing doesn't blow up. That refelcts Ren so well who is himself unstable and untrained, he is incomplete. His lightsaber indicates that it is unstable and poorly made, it is incomplete. Also there are two metal bits that protect the hand from sliding up and getting sliced off.



 You put this into such a great perspective.  

  Think back to Darth Maul. The double saber. Lots of people loved it, lots of people didn't. I think with each new iteration of the Star Wars saga they try to add a little more badassery to the sabers. If they all were the same, it would be a little boring - differing colors can only captivate interest for so long until you start losing the wow factor, though I guess the same could be said for the weapon itself. They try to keep the idea of the lightsaber fresh, and I love it. And like with Rey, I see them trying to create a new weapon with her staff.   

Finn:  At first I didn't like how his defection was expedited, but the character grew on me as another luck-struck scoundrel.  I don't think he'll become a Jedi.

 My prediction: he and Phasma have an epic shootout.  

Speaking of her...  

Captain Phasma:  Why, oh why, would you make such a badass storm trooper (HER ARMOR IS FREAKING CHROME) AND NOT GIVE HER MORE THAN 5 MINUTES OF SCREEN TIME?! WHAT.  
I hope she, too, escaped the clutches of the trash compactor. She had to. 
  I would've like to have seen more from the character in general, but I have a hunch she'll return.   I fear I am running short on words, so I'll leave off there.


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## Gryphos

Captain Phasma better do some badass shit in the next film or I'm going to be _so_ mad.

As for Kylo's lightsaber, I think it's awesome. I actually think that it's a lot less dangerous to the user than you might think at first glance. There have been numerous videos on youtube from sword enthusiasts explaining that any competent sword user would easily be able to avoid hurting themselves. And when you consider the fact that Kylo Ren has likely trained specifically to use that lightsaber, and so would be even less likely to hurt himself, and there's no issue. Plus, as shown by his fight with Finn, those side-blades can be useful.


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## Garren Jacobsen

Gryphos said:


> Captain Phasma better do some badass shit in the next film or I'm going to be _so_ mad.



Agreed. What a waste of a BAMF. I hope for a huge shootout between Finn and Phasma. I'm talking blaster bolts flying everywhichway and then ending with a western style quick draw.


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## Legendary Sidekick

I expect we'll see a lot more of Evil Brienne the Beast.

It's more than a feeling. (Link goes to an article, not a Foreigner song.)


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## T.Allen.Smith

Good points on Phasma. I expected a lot more from that character.


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## Penpilot

Ok where to start. Sorry but this is going to be long. There's just so much to talk about... or rather blabber on about.
*
The Niggling.*

There are a lot of little things that feel a little rushed, where you can feel the need of plot moving forward overpowering the need for everything to happen naturally. It isn't awkward to the point of cringe worthy, but there were points where I pursed my lips. 

I wonder how much of this was left on the cutting room floor. Hopefully, we'll get some of it in an extended edition.

*1 )*For example, there's point in the movie where Fin and Poe hug after the battle where we find out Poe isn't dead. Did their relationship really warrant a hug? They barely knew each other. I'd say it deserved more of a handshake or a forearm clasp. At best it was a bro-hug with the handshake pulling in for a quick half-hug.

But for me, that could have been addressed with a quick character moment between the two slipped in between the escape and them stealing the TIE fighter. They tried to address this inside the cockpit of the TIE fighter, but their personal exchange in there felt a little awkward. Like I said, the demands of plot intruding. 

They could have just moved all that into a quick breather scene, and I think it might have worked better. The character moment would have been more focused.  

*2)* Han and Leia's dialogue discussing their backstory felt info dumpy, and IMHO could have been smoothed over. This is a bit surprising considering Carrie Fisher is a script doctor. 

*3)*Kylo Ren struggle with the light. It was talked about but not really shown. I don’t recall a moment where the light actually made him do something he shouldn't have or even temped him to do good. Which took away from Han's death. There was never any doubt about what was going to happen.

*4)*Which brings me to Han and Kylo, on the bridge. I heard this point on a review, and I agree with it. Han was trying to reason with Kylo on an intellectual level instead of an emotional level. He talked about how Snoke was going to use and betray him, but that just felt like plot moving forward. IMHO he should have appealed to him as a father.

To be presumptuous, I think the conversation should have been more like this. 

Kylo could have said something like he’d done many dark things, and he feels like he can't go back even though the light calls to him.
Han response that didn’t matter. None of it matters. He can always come home. His mother misses him. He misses him.
Kylo answers he feels the pull of the light and the dark. It pains him. And then he ask Han for help.
They embrace and Kylo can say he loves him.
Han could say he knows. - a small call back to Empire.
And them Kylo gives into the darkside.

To me that would have been more fitting, at least in my eyes, but I'm just fanboying here.

*5)* Rey’s discovery of her powers, felt like it needed another moment to bring it home. She jumps from no force powers to fighting Kylo’s mind reading to her Jedi mind tricking a Stormtrooper. I think there needed to be a moment of self realization between the last two, at least more of a set up for the mind trick. 

To me it's implied that she's being guided by the Force in all her actions, whether it's flying the Falcon or fighting, but there needs to be tiniest moment of self discovery, and I think this niggling bit would have gone away. And it would have made her summoning of the Force in her fight with Kylo that much more epic.


With my niggling complaints out of the way.
*
The Great Stuff*


*Kylo having his temper tantrums.* I so felt for that poor, sweating schmuck who had to deliver the  the bad news about not capturing BB8. And as mentioned, after Rey escaped the two stormtroopers come around the corner doing an about face when they heard Kylo freaking out. They didn't want none of that.

*NO Darth X.* I hope they deal away with the whole Darth naming system. To me it always felt silly for Darth to be a kind of title, especially when Ben Kenobi used it like a first name in a new hope. I think it takes away from the uniqueness of a character. Kylo Ren is a character's name. Darth Kylo is a venereal disease. Got a major case of Darth Kylo, and it itches like a jar-jar in the face.  

*Likeable characters right from the start.* They doubled up on Rey by kicking and saving the cat, or rather droid on the latter, moments to show us her character. And with Fin, his refusal to execute helpless people. Great genuine character moments efficiently delivered. 

*Great visual story telling *with Rey driving across the desert with crashed Star Destroyer and X-wing in the back and foreground. Rey eating while sitting next to the foot of an AT-AT. Those two things add to the feeling of her being one insignificant spec amongst giants of the universe.

*Fin being recognized* by a fellow Stormtrooper and their fight, as well as making the Stormtroopers competent in aim and fighting skills. Also, making them actual people not disposable clones or droids, added some much needed weight to their deaths even though they’re the bad guys.

*The Speculation*

I know some don't like this echoing ANH, but for me, I don't mind. I'd rather have a soft reboot like this than a hard one. 

It's also in a way is like an unintentional jab at George Lucas. Lucas said of the prequels that they're supposed to be like poetry where the prequels rhyme with the originals. I guess he thought of it as art. But there are two words that rhyme with Art, Fart and Heart. 

And of those two things, there's only one in which you want to get your face close to in order to hear the beats that come out. Guess which one George produced--a big wet one.

See George, this is how you rhyme.

As for Rey, I'm fairly certain that she's Luke's daughter. It kind of goes with Luke's voice overs in the trailer about the Force being strong with him, his father, his sister, ANNNNNDDD his daughter. It also makes the conflict a family matter like in the original trilogy. Maybe her mother is the one who took and left her on Jakku, which is kind of like what happened to Luke. 

Maybe Luke thinks he lost his daughter when Kylo betrayed the Jedi order and doesn't realize she's alive until Rey shows up on his doorstep.

Of note, I heard someone say that in the EU, Han and Leia have a son that turns to the darkside. So I wonder how much they're going to draw on that?

I think in regards to Phasma and Poe, not having huge parts in the movie, I think it might have been a good thing. Too many directions makes for a lack of focus. Better to have people wanting more than to have too much.

Boba Fett was barely in the original but was very memorable. Someone tweeted that all of Boba Fetts dialogue in all the movies fits into a single tweet.



> "As you wish. He's no good to me dead. What if he doesn't survive, he's worth a lot to me. Put Captain Solo in the cargo hold." - Boba Fett.



Any way that's my LOOOOOOOOOOOONG rant.


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## Ryan_Crown

So many criticisms, so little time (so be prepared for a long post)! First let me just say that I did enjoy the movie, for what it was. But mostly that's because I ignored what little story there was (and tried my best to ignore how blatantly that story just ripped off the original trilogy) and focused on the visuals and the fight scenes/battles. And on that score I will say the movie was a complete success. Unlike the prequels this really looked and felt like a Star Wars movie. The crashed Star Destroyers, the bad ass new Tie Fighters, even the stormtrooper armor got a nice upgrade while still looking like stormtrooper armor. And the battles were everything you'd hope for from a Star Wars film.

I liked both the new heroes, even with the many issues that both of them had. Luckily the one big advantage they had was they got great actors to portray them, and I think both did a superb job. My absolute favorite character, though, has to be one that no one's mentioned yet -- Maz Kanata. As the pseudo-Yoda, wise, ancient character, I thought she fantastic, and I hope they bring her back for future movies.

I liked Rey a lot, even if she was a bit overly powerful (but I'm hoping that's addressed in future movies). And I'm really hoping she's NOT Luke's daughter, because that just feels too obvious. One idea that I saw posted elsewhere that I would love, is that she could be Obi-Wan's granddaughter. Now that I think would be an interesting twist.

Completely random observation - when Rey orders the storm trooper to free her, am I the only one that kept hearing Lady Jessica from Dune using "The Voice"? For some reason that scene reminded me way more of Dune than it did the original Star Wars (not that I had a problem with that, just found it amusing).

I liked Finn's character, and I think John Boyega did a good job with the character. My problem, though, was he never for one minute came across as a former stormtrooper -- well, except in the fight scenes, that's pretty much a given. I'm talking about any dialogue or scene that showcases his personality. This guy was trained/brainwashed from childhood to be an elite soldier? Well, no, actually he was trained from childhood to work in sanitation! Because clearly there's a job that requires a lifetime of training. Maybe that's why the stormtroopers were so easily beaten -- they weren't really elite soldiers, just maintenance men with laser rifles that the First Order used when they needed a bunch of unarmed civilians dispatched.

Which brings me to Captain Phasma -- a character I really liked right up to the moment when Finn orders her to lower the shields, and she just does it! No wonder the First Order gets their asses kicked despite their massive firepower if this is the quality of soldiers they have. No defiance, no "You'll have to kill me before I'll aid you!". Nope, they threaten her life and she immediately caves, despite the fact that she's just committed an act of treason that is likely to get her and all of her compatriots killed. But I guess the movie was running long at that point and they just didn't have time to make lowering the shield an actual challenge or anything.

I'm going to skip discussing Kylo Ren, because I feel I could write an entire post just about the things I didn't like about him (Darth Maul only gets one movie, and this whiner gets to be in probably an entire trilogy? Where's the justice in that?!)

As far as the story goes, it didn't take me long to just ignore it since it made little sense and had really nothing original to it. Force-sensitive orphan on a desert planet meets droid with obvious Mcguffin that needs to be delivered to the forces of good? Check. Mentor/father figure tragically killed by the villain while the hero watches helplessly? Check. Reveal that the villain is related to the heroes? Check. Fatal flaw in the design of our massive planet killer? Check. Sending in a small group of heroes to disable the shield so that the fighters can blow up said planet killer? Check.

And let's talk about Starkiller Base for a moment. Okay, I do appreciate the use of the name, but what idiot decides, "Hey, the last two attempts at a Death Star were abject failures, but if we make it really, really big this time, it's sure to be a success!!" And if this is the remnants of the Empire trying to reestablish themselves, where exactly did they come up with the resources to build something that much larger and more powerful than the Empire's crowning achievement? It doesn't take an economist to realize the absolute impossibility of that entire scenario.

My last comment/criticism is a minor thing, but it was something that really bothered as I was watching the movie (whereas most of the rest of my criticisms were formed after the movie was over and I had time to discuss/analyze it). "Luke, we're gonna have company!" was my absolute favorite line from the original Star Wars. And Abrams not only stole it, he turned it into a poorly delivered throwaway line. But that's what JJ Abrams does. Just like Super 8 was beginning to end Abrams gushing over how much he loved Spielberg movies, The Force Awakens was him beginning to end gushing over how much he really, really loved the original Star Wars movies.

So at the end of the day I had enough fun watching the movie to feel that it was worth my time and money, but I can't imagine I'll go see it again. And yes, I'll go see the sequels, both out of morbid curiosity and because they will also be fun, mindless popcorn movies. But as a writer, I look at The Force Awakens as a solid example of what NOT to do when writing a story.


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## Garren Jacobsen

One other thing I noticed is that Rei seemed to have touched on the Dark Side in her fight with Ren. I wonder if that will continue as the series progresses.


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## T.Allen.Smith

Penpilot said:


> ...I heard someone say that in the EU, Han and Leia have a son that turns to the darkside. So I wonder how much they're going to draw on that?


Yes. Jacen Solo, a.k.a. Darth Caedus


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## Steerpike

T.Allen.Smith said:


> Yes. Jacen Solo, a.k.a. Darth Caedus



Don't they have twins, a son who goes to the dark side and a daughter to the light?


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## X Equestris

Steerpike said:


> Don't they have twins, a son who goes to the dark side and a daughter to the light?



Yeah, Jaina.  And a son who died, Anakin.


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## T.Allen.Smith

Steerpike said:


> Don't they have twins, a son who goes to the dark side and a daughter to the light?


Yes. Jaina is the sister. 

She eventually kills her brother.

EDIT: NINJA'd


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## X Equestris

Here's something I haven't seen anyone really talk much about:  where are the other Knights of Ren?  We see them in the flashback, but they don't put in a later appearance.


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## MineOwnKing

Touching back on what Ryan Crown mentioned about Death Stars. Besides just finding the resources to build them, the fact that three of them were built within the lifespan of Luke Skywalker, seems improbable. Anybody that knows anything about construction would realize how difficult that would be in such a short time frame.

I'm happy to know that so many members like Kylo Ren's light saber. It seems I'm the only one opposed. Maybe it has something to do with being among fantasy writers versus sci-fi writers. 

Why is the search for Luke so important? He gave up his teachings and made sure to avoid people. Why not just let him die of old age?


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## Zadocfish

What I liked about Kylo's lightsaber is that he used the cross-guard in EXACTLY the way that a laser cross-guard should be used; to attack the enemy even when he's been parried.

I can never quite understand people who say that Rey shouldn't have been able to beat him, though.  He had an energy bolt through the side minutes prior, and a shoulder wound from fighting Finn.  The weird thing is that he lasted as long as he did...  Loved his character, too.  It's rare to see a young villain angsting because he _doesn't feel evil enough._  I think that was an amazingly inventive angle to go for.

The one thing I didn't like was Finn saying that he had no idea if the plan he made would work, since he was just a janitor.  What?  Why did it work anyways?  Was he totally cool with hundreds of resistance fighters dying for nothing just to get Rey back?  Well, it worked, so I give him a pass on that weird character moment.

Loved the movie.


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## X Equestris

Zadocfish said:


> The one thing I didn't like was Finn saying that he had no idea if the plan he made would work, since he was just a janitor.  What?  Why did it work anyways?  Was he totally cool with hundreds of resistance fighters dying for nothing just to get Rey back?  Well, it worked, so I give him a pass on that weird character moment.
> 
> Loved the movie.



Well, it's not like there were many options.  They were facing annihilation.  A plan, even if the odds are poor, is better than no plan and certain death.


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## Penpilot

MineOwnKing said:


> I'm happy to know that so many members like Kylo Ren's light saber. It seems I'm the only one opposed. Maybe it has something to do with being among fantasy writers versus sci-fi writers.



For me, it's the rule of cool. If it's cool enough it doesn't matter, just like the impracticability Starkiller base. And as for Sci-fi vs Fantasy, Star Wars is fantasy. It's definitely not hard sci-fi.



MineOwnKing said:


> Why is the search for Luke so important? He gave up his teachings and made sure to avoid people.



I think it's because the Jedi are the key to bringing down the Empire...err.. First Order. At least that's what the title roll said. 

In practical terms, he's important to bring old fans back to the franchise and to pass the torch.


----------



## ThinkerX

I was a bit disappointed with Death Star version 3.0...but not really surprised the First Order had the resources/ability to construct it.  They'd had most of three decades to do so, after all, and the First Order appears to have inherited a lot of the old Empire's knowledge and resources (they already had most of the map from imperial archives, and made use of Imperial Star Destroyers.)  More, the impression I had was they ruled a great many systems outright and they had agents everywhere - witness the agents popping out of the woodwork in the hunt for BB-8.

I find myself wondering about the designer of Starkiller.  The resistance folk had only a hazy idea how it worked, which implies some major league brainpower went into that devices concept.  I suspect Snoke is not that designer.


----------



## Zadocfish

Also, I thought the firing of the Starkiller was so much better than the firing of the original Death Star.  Why?  Because you SEE the people on the ground looking confusedly at the beams coming at them.  That adds an incredible amount of weight to the proceedings; with Alderaan, you only were told that there were many peaceful folk there.  With this one, you saw them and felt their last moments a little.  That was an incredibly smart design choice on behalf of the movie creators.


----------



## MineOwnKing

Penpilot said:


> And as for Sci-fi vs Fantasy, Star Wars is fantasy. It's definitely not hard sci-fi.



I wasn't really referring to genre classification, just the difference in fans that are also writers. I think Sci-fi writers in general are interested in different things than fantasy writers.

Perhaps I'm biased on light sabers due to my age. I'm not up to date on internet feuds over light sabers. Kylo Ren's saber looks more like a traditional sword and I find that jarring. I'm trying to get into a futuristic space opera mood and the laser sword looks out of place. All he needs is a shield and a horse to completely ruin it for me. Sorry.

I don't want members to get the wrong idea about me. I really enjoyed the movie. I'm just always thinking of how to make things better, but with my own opinions. 

It was certainly a vast improvement over the last three films. 

I see things that look out of place but still work. Some scenes almost looked like they could have fit in The Temple of Doom. Han Solo could have traded his flight jacket in for his Indiana Jones hat and whip, and still fit right in.

I would have preferred something completely new and unrelated to the older movies and older movie director mentoring.

I wish someone would make a movie out of Half Life. Or at least give us Half Life 3. 

Hint, hint Santa!


----------



## Penpilot

MineOwnKing said:


> I would have preferred something completely new and unrelated to the older movies and older movie director mentoring.



Maybe this is where the difference lies, expectations and desires.

After 15 years of the words "F-Off" popping into my head every time I heard the phrase Star Wars, my expectations were set very low. Hopes were high, but the bar was set low. As soon as the prequels were done, I was pretty done with Star Wars.

The franchise had lost it's magic, or rather, it was taken away in a Midichlorian induced insanity. This was a franchise I loved so much as a kid, that when I had to return a picture book adaptation of Star Wars to the library, I copied all the words down just so I could have the story. (This was pre-internet, pre-computers, and pre-VCR)

So all I wanted was a competent story. I got that and more. The story isn't perfect, not by a long shot, but now, maybe the bar gets raised just a little.


----------



## Legendary Sidekick

My birthday poem was going to have a second verse about Kylo Ren's ship flipping me the bird, but it wasn't funny enough to justify a minor spoiler.

But I am curious, so I'll ask. Did anyone besides me think the silhouette of the star destroyer passing over a planet (right after the yellow words) looked like a middle finger? I didn't ask my friends that because (a) I don't even whisper in the movie theater and (b) after the movie was over, there were too many scenes worth talking about.


----------



## Legendary Sidekick

Zadocfish said:


> Also, I thought the firing of the Starkiller was so much better than the firing of the original Death Star.  Why?  Because you SEE the people on the ground looking confusedly at the beams coming at them.  That adds an incredible amount of weight to the proceedings; with Alderaan, you only were told that there were many peaceful folk there.  With this one, you saw them and felt their last moments a little.  That was an incredibly smart design choice on behalf of the movie creators.


I liked that part. You knew since episode IV that life is cheap to the Dark Side. But actually seeing the victims made the mass murder more real. You had a moment to think, if someone is blowing up your planet/moon, there isn't a thing you can do about it. People on the one surviving planet looked up into the sky and knew exactly what was happening, and the victims were truly helpless/hopeless.

I wonder about that bounty hunter (or prostitute or whatever she was) who called the First Order. Any regrets? She might've had contacts on those worlds. I realize there can't be any focus on these minor characters, but it was a thought I had. At the time she called, I thought _she has no idea what shitstorm she's putting herself into_... and it turned out, neither did I.


----------



## Philip Overby

Been waiting for a chance to talk about this since I'm pretty sensitive to people's aversion to spoilers. My overall thoughts: really enjoyable film, from beginning to end. It actually exceeded my expectations.

Mostly it was because the story was relatively simple. There wasn't a lot of rambling about stuff no one cares about and it got right to the core of the characters quickly without laying out everything.

Character thoughts:

Rey-Awesome new lead character in the series and I'm interested to see what happens with Luke. (I'm hoping it's not just a bunch of Karate Kid/Kill Bill training sequences). I was a little confused why she just knew all the Force powers so quickly, but I think that had to do with her just knowing the stories of how it worked. She did seem familiar with it all. It felt out of left field at first, but then I grew to accept it.

Her "mind battle" with Kylo was one of my favorite scenes in all movies for a long time. Her actual physical battle was visually impressive. I'm loving this character and interested to see how significantly she grows in power over time.

Finn: Finn's story as a stormtrooper fed up with all the destruction, but with no real identity of his own is intriguing. The four main characters that were introduced were all incredibly interesting in various ways and actually overshadowed the returning characters for me. Finn's reluctance to stay involved in an increasingly dangerous conflict felt realistic, but his eventual standing up to those that would cause harm to the ones he cared about won me over. Him being in a coma (I assume) will be interesting to see what he does next (surely the First Order will want him dead. Maybe some bounty hunters? )

Poe Dameron: The least focused on main character still brought a lot to the table in his scenes. We could see him as the smartass that Han Solo was, but brave in the face of certain death as well. His X-wing scenes were incredible, but I couldn't help wanting to see more of what was going on with the other characters. Another character I'm intrigued to see what they do more with in the next movie.

Kylo Ren: Probably the most controversial character, Kylo Ren was actually one of my favorite Star Wars villains right after, ironically, Darth Vader. I liked that we're getting this parallel story of the rise of a villain and the rise of the heroine in this new trilogy. I didn't want Kylo to be a badass that just wrecks everyone. He's insecure, (gasp) emotional, angry, unhinged, and unpredictable. The fact that he tries so hard to look badass and be badass like his famous grandpa makes him that much more dangerous. And as others have pointed out before, when he takes off the mask he looks pale, weak, and his voice is much less intimidating. I think the criticism levied against him mostly that he was too weak of a villain, but I think that was the point. Snoke is there to make him stronger, which is a frightening thing to think about.

Short thoughts about others:

Han Solo: Sucked to see him go out, but I found it a necessary plot point to cement Kylo as the series new main baddie. He was great in this movie for sure.

BB8: Awesome new droid. I literally LOLed several times at him. He accomplished what Jar Jar couldn't (but I won't get into the Jar Jar bashing).

Chewbacca: Cool, but I agreed with some other criticism I saw that he looked too clean. Shampooed even.

Leia: Probably my least favorite of the bunch, but I think she did what she could.

Luke: Awesome reveal at the end. I'm excited to see his role in the next movie now that Han's gone.

Phasma: I suspect she escaped the explosion somehow and will maybe (maybe?) become Finn's Boba Fett. I've seen this theory bounced around, but it would be cool if Phasma kept hounding Finn, maybe her beautiful chrome armor is all beat up and wrecked a la Mr. Fett. Lots of potential left with her since she didn't get much time.

Maz Kanata: I dug the design of the character and loved her pirate base. She was cool as a one-off character. I don't suspect we'll see much of her in the next one.

General Hux: I think we'll see more power struggles with him and Kylo. I loved his speech. It felt angry and impassioned, something some villains seem to lack. 

Supreme Leader Snoke: I won't speculate too much on him since I don't know much about the background mythos, but I love that he's this gigantic hologram. I saw elsewhere that it would be funny if he's this small little alien dude and he makes himself look huge to intimidate everyone. I think the less I know about him the better, as I like the mystery behind his purpose and origin. 

Overall, 10/10. Very minor issues that were drowned out by the overall awesomeness.

(Oh and hope to see more of the Kanjiklub and Guavian Death Gang)


----------



## MineOwnKing

Penpilot said:


> (This was pre-internet, pre-computers, and pre-VCR)



Yeah,

Being a little kid in the 70's was fun but there wasn't much for tech stuff around.

We had better quality Star Wars toys though. Now everything that's not made by Lego is crap.

I never saw the fun in building something that falls apart. I just wanted to play right off the git go.

My kids love Lego stuff, but I have to put it together. Double not fun.


----------



## Codey Amprim

I really like Poe's character. The Alliance hasn't really had a badass character, him being an ace pilot and all. I'm thinking he will train Finn to be a pilot, or maybe the two will tag team up again as pilot and gunner.

General Hux could actually be terrifying as the charismatic leader of the First Order. That speech gave me chills, too. A power struggle seems to be developing between him and KR.

On another note: I hope we get to see more of that BAMF vibro-mace that the stormtrooper that went toe to toe with Finn had. When that thing came out all I thought was _hnnnnnnnnnnnng_. I want one. Actually make that seven. Because reasons.


----------



## Legendary Sidekick

@Phil, awesome analysis!

I agree that it's simplicity that made the story work. Maybe to some, a few things happen too fast. I'm fine with that (as a viewer, as a reader, as a writer). I think there are certain things that, in real life, would take many steps in order to establish trust--Finn's defection, for example. It would have added needless "drama" to drag that out, where the quick do-or-die was believable enough and moved the story.

Prequel bashing is not beneath me. I'll just say this: the yellow text was the first sign that this was more like Ep.IV and unlike Ep.I. The words made me feel like I was seeing Star Wars for real. A simple intro, easy to digest, hooked me.


----------



## ThinkerX

Speculation:

Finn is descended from or otherwise related to Mace Windu, the Jedi Master from episodes 1 - 3.


----------



## Legendary Sidekick

I wouldn't rule that out... but a part of me hopes Poe and Finn aren't related to any characters from past episodes. Like in the original trilogy, there was the Skywalker family, and other characters were awesome without being related to anyone big. Rey and Kylo Ren are likely cousins or maybe even siblings. I think one awesome family secret reveal is enough. That said, I am >99% sure I will accept if Finn is related to Mace or Lando and Poe is related to Wedge or some Ep.I-III character I forgot existed. I am more than happy to just enjoy this trilogy.

In fact, I'm seeing it again with my wife and parents next Monday. How many aging Star Wars fans can say "I saw it twice in 2015!"

Or maybe a better question... how many aging Star Wars fans would hear my boast and ask, "Only twice?"


----------



## ThinkerX

The other thing that is bothering me is the dearth of Force Users this time around, good, evil, or indifferent.  

Lots of Jedi in episodes 1 - 3.  But since then, very, very few.  Yet despite this paucity, Luke found enough Force-Users to start his own academy.

Or to put it another way, Luke may be the last Jedi, but he, Rey, and the current crop of bad guys are almost certainly far from the only significant Force-Users left.


----------



## Garren Jacobsen

Legendary Sidekick said:


> I wouldn't rule that out... but a part of me hopes Poe and Finn aren't related to any characters from past episodes. Like in the original trilogy, there was the Skywalker family, and other characters were awesome without being related to anyone big. Rey and Kylo Ren are likely cousins or maybe even siblings. I think one awesome family secret reveal is enough. That said, I am >99% sure I will accept if Finn is related to Mace or Lando and Poe is related to Wedge or some Ep.I-III character I forgot existed. I am more than happy to just enjoy this trilogy.
> 
> In fact, I'm seeing it again with my wife and parents next Monday. How many aging Star Wars fans can say "I saw it twice in 2015!"
> 
> Or maybe a better question... how many aging Star Wars fans would hear my boast and ask, "Only twice?"


Pfft took you long enough to see it twice.


----------



## Penpilot

ThinkerX said:


> Speculation:
> 
> Finn is descended from or otherwise related to Mace Windu, the Jedi Master from episodes 1 - 3.



Never say never, but I'd personally like to distance everything from now on from the prequels. I'd like to pretend they don't exist. There's a small part of me that hopes that down the road they reboot those episodes and do them right.


----------



## Gryphos

ThinkerX said:


> Speculation:
> 
> Finn is descended from or otherwise related to Mace Windu, the Jedi Master from episodes 1 - 3.



I've seen similar theories ever since the casting was announced, and I can't help but feel that a lot of the time people are drawing these conclusions using the _flawless_ logic of 'he's black... Mace Windu was black... Connection?' Due to a complete lack of evidence to support it, I'm fairly confident that Finn is completely unrelated to Mace Windu.

Personally, I like the idea of Finn not being connected to anyone. He's just a guy who didn't want to be a part of the First Order anymore. And that's fine by me. We already have Rey and Kylo Ren to be the ones who have links to the older characters, we don't need more.The galaxy isn't _that_ small.


----------



## Legendary Sidekick

@Gryphos,

I wasn't going to go there, but now that you did... I totally agree.


----------



## Garren Jacobsen

Penpilot said:


> Never say never, but I'd personally like to distance everything from now on from the prequels. I'd like to pretend they don't exist. There's a small part of me that hopes that down the road they reboot those episodes and do them right.



I loved the throw away joke about using clones. But yeah avoid the prequels at all costs, and then redo them by changing the story and making it be about Obi Wan instead of Whiney McWhinerton.


----------



## Penpilot

Brian Scott Allen said:


> I loved the throw away joke about using clones. But yeah avoid the prequels at all costs, and then redo them by changing the story and making it be about Obi Wan instead of Whiney McWhinerton.



Did you see the Belated Media youtube channel's attempt at rewriting the prequels? I thought it was really well done.


----------



## Devor

I saw it last night.  I thought it was awesome.

I agree with others that Rey's abilities both as a pilot and with the force shot up far too quickly.

I also thought both of the new protagonists had very simple, undeveloped backgrounds to be doing what they're doing.  Fin, in particular, worked in sanitation and was afraid to kill people in what he described as his first battle, but then becomes the first storm trooper to be good with a blaster in the history of the franchise.  It must be the white helmets - they reflect the light into your eyes and throw off your aim.  I like the character fine, he just needed another small twist to his backstory.

The planet weapon was huge.  I had no problem accepting that it might be understaffed for the size, making it easier to infiltrate once you're on the ground.  A line of dialogue in that direction would've helped.

Those are my only real criticisms.  The movie was mostly an homage to the originals.  That was clear from the start, when the pilot gave a droid important information and sent it running off alone through the desert, all the way up to the new death star weapon.  I think that's exactly what the movie and the franchise needed right now.  But I hope they're setting themselves up to be more daring with the sequels.




Gryphos said:


> I've seen similar theories ever since the casting was announced, and I can't help but feel that a lot of the time people are drawing these conclusions using the _flawless_ logic of 'he's black... Mace Windu was black... Connection?' Due to a complete lack of evidence to support it, I'm fairly confident that Finn is completely unrelated to Mace Windu.



I saw the theory before seeing the movie, and I had thought maybe.  I thought Fin was going to be the Jedi, and the force is hereditary, so it would follow that he was descended from a Jedi.  But now that I've seen it, he's not the Jedi at all, and there's no reason to think there's any connection.

But now who is Rey related to?  The speculation!  My guess is Qui Gon.  I don't think they'll avoid the prequels forever.


----------



## Sheilawisz

I have finally watched Star Wars 7 _The Force Awakens_ today.

After all it was a good idea to wait the two weeks, because the theater was almost empty and I could enjoy the whole movie without people talking and children screaming. The other good thing is that I was lucky enough to watch it with the original voices, considering how popular the dubbing is around here.

Now, to my critic:

The Force Awakens is a very, very cool and highly entertaining movie. I liked all the characters very much, especially Rey. There is not a single boring part in the entire film, really everything was great... It has been definitely a vast improvement over the terrible prequel movies, so congratulations to Disney for a work well done.

My only problem with Rey is related to my native language: The word _Rey_ means King (El Rey: The King), so from my point of view it's really weird to give that name to a woman. I know that it doesn't matter for English speakers, but they could have given her a more beautiful and womanly name.

I especially appreciated the various touches of good humor, which are all brilliant and take place at the right moments. The movie is well balanced between adventure, drama, comedy and action.

Now, the negative critic:

The Force Awakens is pretty much a remake of _A New Hope_. The story is told in a different way and there are new characters this time, but in general it's the same freaking story taking place all over again... I felt a little cheated because of this, and I think that Disney is just making loads of money out of the nostalgia of countless fans.

*A New Hope:* There is a powerful and super evil organization that threatens to take over the Galaxy. A droid/robot or whatever carries incredibly valuable information, which could either save the Galaxy or doom it. There are rebels fighting against the evil Empire. This Empire has built an incredibly deadly weapon in order to win. The information about how to destroy the Big Weapon eventually falls into rebel hands. A character that lived in a desolated, desert planet is suddenly taken to the adventure and discovers that he/she has special powers. The Big Weapon has a critical weakness. The rebels destroy the Big Weapon by attacking its weaknesses with small fighters, acting under time pressure because said weapon is about to destroy them all. Rebels celebrate in the end and new hope comes to the Galaxy.

*The Force Awakens:* There is a powerful and super evil organization that threatens to take over the Galaxy. A droid/robot or whatever carries incredibly valuable information, which could either save the Galaxy or doom it. There are rebels fighting against the evil Empire. This Empire has built an incredibly deadly weapon in order to win. The information about how to destroy the Big Weapon eventually falls into rebel hands. A character that lived in a desolated, desert planet is suddenly taken to the adventure and discovers that he/she has special powers. The Big Weapon has a critical weakness. The rebels destroy the Big Weapon by attacking its weaknesses with small fighters, acting under time pressure because said weapon is about to destroy them all. Rebels celebrate in the end and new hope comes to the Galaxy.

_What the hell happened here?_

When I first saw the trailers for _The Force Awakens_, I assumed that the Empire was trying to re-build itself and superior Republican forces were fighting to prevent this from happening... And then, as soon as the movie starts we are explained that a new _Empire Reloaded_ but with a different name has come out of nowhere and the Galaxy is in great danger again!

Wha-What? That's the same formula repeating itself...

So the victory of the heroes at the end of Star Wars 6 means nothing, because in just thirty years this new Empire showed up and nobody could stop them before they would become powerful and now it's all about Empire vs Rebels _again_. Just how did this happen? And why? Is it possible that the SW Galaxy is such an uncontrollable mess?

I guess that the following movies will be called _The First Order Strikes Back_ and _The Jedi Returns Again_.


----------



## Zadocfish

Two things about the freaking insufferable torrents of "it's a ripoff/rehash/whatever of New Hope" from my perspective:

1:  If there was one thing the prequels did that hurt the franchise the most, it was the massive departure from the feel and setting of the original movies.  I suspect that the new one is similar to New Hope primarily as a way to re-connect with the fans; simply put, as an assurance that this IS going to be more like the originals than the prequels.  It's a concession I totally understand the need for.

2:  The plot threads it has in common with A New Hope are, aside from the droid in the desert bit, virtually superficial.  Yeah, the same basic, broad strokes events are happening, but they're happening from a completely different perspective, going a completely different direction, or largely shoved into the background.

The end with the Death Star knockoff stands out the most to me like this.  Sure, there's a Death Star needing to get blown up, but that's not really the focus.  The focus was on getting Rey back and then fighting Kylo on the surface of the planet, while a side character takes Luke's role of X-Wing Ace for all of about a minute of screen time.

The bar scene, too; yeah, there's a bar.  But it's used to develop the characters by giving Fin a chance to leave clean, Rey a chance to show off more of her backstory and perspective, and setup the conditions for the climax.  That's nothing like how A New Hope did it at all.  It's a completely different plot element that, for the sake of familiarity, bears a coat of paint that looks like a scene from A New Hope.

Basically, there's plot elements that bear a resemblance to A New Hope all over the place, but they're there to tie the world, and the new trilogy in production, to the originals rather than the more recent movies.  Moreover, they're used to tell a completely different story, rendering the comparisons between Episode 7 and Episode 4 ultimately a weird example of focusing on the background and ignoring the actual story and characters.


----------



## Sheilawisz

Hey Zadoc.

I never said that The Force Awakens is a carbon copy of _A New Hope_, just that it's a remake. There are clearly many differences between both movies, because a remake always adds its own twist and style in order to avoid becoming a straight forward clone of the original material.

The Force Awakens feels very much like the original trilogy not only because of this, but especially thanks to the fact that it follows the same visual style and sound effects from the classics. The prequel movies were made instead with a stylish and digital approach, which made them feel very different.

Another way to look at my point is this: Imagine that _The Force Awakens_ had been made by some other producers, almost the same movie but without a connection to Star Wars. The entire world would be calling it a ripoff, a plagiarism of the classic Star Wars... However it happens to be made by the current owners of the SW franchise, so most people do not consider it even a remake.

The movie is great anyway, excellent entertainment and visually impressive in almost every part.


----------



## Ophiucha

I'm not a big _Star Wars_ fan, but my husband is into it so I went with him to see it on opening night... and a couple of times since. It was nice. All of the ships, which are my favourite part of this series, looked really stunning both inside and out. Carrie Fisher was amazing, and Leia has always been the best character in the _Star Wars_ series, for me. The BB-8 droid had such lovely movement; I was delighted watching him go down the stairs with Rey. I was a huge fan of Attack the Block, so seeing John Boyega in a major picture like this made me very happy for him, and he was easily my favourite new character in the series. He was so cute! I hope we get more backstory for him in later films.

Didn't like all of it. Harrison Ford was kind of terrible. Chewbacca was very clean and looked out of place -- plus, he seems like he'll be in future films, since he's travelling with Rey now. The small yellow alien with the large eyes was a rather poor effect; there was a scene where she was grabbing someone's hand and it was _terrible_ looking. Kylo Ren might actually be a less compelling villain than Episode 3!Anakin. There wasn't nearly enough of Poe Dameron.

But I think most of those problems are going to be fixed in the next two films.


----------



## Gryphos

Sheilawisz said:
			
		

> I never said that The Force Awakens is a carbon copy of A New Hope, just that it's a remake.



Well technically it's not a remake, it's an official sequel to the original trilogy which happens to follow a lot of the same story beats as episode 4. A remake would be if someone physically wanted to make episode 4 again, but this is episode 7.

But on the subject of the similarity between this and episode 4, I agree with Zadoc in that the similarities are mostly superficial. The whole Starkiller Base stuff only acts as a backdrop for the personal struggle against Kylo Ren (who btw I feel the filmmakers managed to make much more compelling a villain in one film than they did Darth Vader in episode 4). Because of this, the similarities to episode 4 never bothered me, because they used those similar story beats to deliver on different emotional impacts.

Plus, I feel as though the reason the filmmakers made it so similar to episode 4 was in order to assure audiences that they're capable of delivering on a good Star Wars experience. This was them proving that the Star Wars universe is in good hands before they pull out all the stops on something completely new. And hey, think about it, there's not much left for them to copy, so we're bound to get something different in episodes 8 and 9.


----------



## Penpilot

For people's interest, deleted scenes.

http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-the-force-awkens-deleted-scenes/


I'm watching this interview with George Lucas. Charlie Rose | charlierose.com

I don't want this to degrade into a I hate Lucas thread, so I'll say up front. He seems like a really good guy. He gave up directing for 15 yrs to raise a family. That seems like a guy who has his priorities straight. 

BUTTTTTT, in regards to Lucas the artist/writer/creator. I have never been so UNINSPIRED after listening to another writer speak about their work. Seriously, listening to him speak about his movies is like watching the prequels all over again, all intellect, concept, and no emotion. It was like reading a text book.

Listening to him talk is like listening to a dad who think's he's still hip. Me thinks he thinks he's more artistic and creative than he actually is. He actually thinks his all black cast movie, Redtails in 2012, was a head of it's time.

Someone should tell him they made a movie about The Tuskegee Airmen in 1995, and is hardly the first all black cast film.


----------



## MineOwnKing

I found Sheilawisz's critique to be very genuine and thoughtful.


----------



## T.Allen.Smith

I don't disagree there are similarities. I think they're purposeful. First, it's a handoff from what made the franchise great in the 70s to the present, from Lucas to Disney, & from the old cast to the new (with a few of the old cast mixed in). 

I have a feeling it's going to head in a different direction in the next installment. Not totally foreign, but different and unique. If they did that from the get-go, that's a massive risk to take for a $4.2 billion investment. Doing it this way, the fans are eased into the transition before jumping down a different rabbit hole.


----------



## MineOwnKing

Okay,

Well, I got my second viewing of Star Wars.

I found it to be a very different experience. This time I went into the theater without any expectations. I stopped trying to think like an editor and just let myself be a fan.

Many of the things that bothered me during the first viewing, I saw in a different light.

The love that I knew as a kid was rekindled. 

And yet I stick by my original review because I know I'm not thinking clearly. 

I compare it to a man not being able to see the flaws in the woman he loves. Or perhaps admiring a woman in a bar with my beer goggles on.

Love is blind.


----------



## Tom

After watching the movie again, I've changed my theory on Rey's origin.

I think she's related to Obi-Wan Kenobi. 

She has an accent similar to his (I believe it's a Coruscant accent) and she's already shown herself to have a talent for Jedi mind tricks, which were Obi-Wan's specialty. It would also be a great echo of the prequels--a Kenobi and a Skywalker, one devoted to the light and the other pulled towards the dark. 

Well, we'll see what happens in episode VIII. I'll probably be wrong, but you never know.


----------



## Gryphos

Tom Nimenai said:


> After watching the movie again, I've changed my theory on Rey's origin.
> 
> I think she's related to Obi-Wan Kenobi.
> 
> She has an accent similar to his (I believe it's a Coruscant accent) and she's already shown herself to have a talent for Jedi mind tricks, which were Obi-Wan's specialty. It would also be a great echo of the prequels--a Kenobi and a Skywalker, one devoted to the light and the other pulled towards the dark.
> 
> Well, we'll see what happens in episode VIII. I'll probably be wrong, but you never know.



Interesting theory, and I certainly wouldn't be opposed to it if it turned out to be true. Although, I think the accent thing is stretching it a little bit, since many characters in the Star Wars universe have Southern English accents.


----------



## Steerpike

Penpilot said:


> Someone should tell him they made a movie about The Tuskegee Airmen in 1995, and is hardly the first all black cast film.



Hell, they made Hallelujah in 1929 and Cabin in the Sky in 1943, and the latter at least is a pretty decent movie.


----------



## Legendary Sidekick

MineOwnKing said:
			
		

> I compare it to a man not being able to see the flaws in the woman he loves. Or perhaps admiring a woman in a bar with my beer goggles on.
> 
> Love is blind.


I had no trouble seeing the flaws in the Greedo-shot-first edition, nor did I get so caught up in hating it that I couldn't enjoy Special Empire Strikes Back (which is the only Special Edition I consider watchable). I still remember the conversation with my brother after Episode I. "Well... that wasn't that bad." "Yeah, it was... interesting." There was no urge to see it twice. After II, I vowed not to see III in the theater unless on a date. My dating status at the time was "will die a virgin." I had no way of knowing I would meet my wife in 2005, so I did end up seeing III with her at the IFC Tower in Hong Kong.

This time, I left VII feeling like Star Wars is back. The second time, the magic was still there. I was holding my wife's hand when Solo died. She really didn't see it coming!

I try not to think like a writer when I watch/read something. Of course, I did to the extent that I knew someone (Luke or Han... not Leia) would die. When I saw how much screen time Han would have (based on how he entered the movie), I knew it would be Han. When Kylo was revealed as his son, Han's killer was revealed. I think most on this site knew that when Han and Chewy were planting the bombs, that was the place. So, the first time, I thought the movie gave too much time to let viewers predict the death. But on the second viewing, I realized it was my writer's hat which some asshole glued onto my head. The 30 seconds they gave viewers to brace themselves for the kill wasn't enough for my wife. She was clinging to the hope that somehow, Han would survive.

But I try not to ask what could have been better. I was entertained. All the criticisms about who did what too soon... nah, it didn't hurt the entertainment value. I think the movie was better off not explaining how Fin can shoot straight, Rei can kick ass, etc. The plot was moving, and so were the characters. I mean literally moving. Think of all those prequel scenes where we watched Jedi--lots of Jedi!--in a meeting room where there is literally more action happening outside the window than in the room full of Jedi. Yoda: sitting and frowning. Samuel L. Jackson: sitting and not swearing. Flying cars pass by the window.

That's one major difference between VII and the prequels. I never looked out a CGI window to see something more interesting than the movie.


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## Tom

It just occurred to me, but does anyone else think Rey's quarterstaff kinda resembles a Magnaguard's staff? Hmm.


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## Gryphos

Tom Nimenai said:


> It just occurred to me, but does anyone else think Rey's quarterstaff kinda resembles a Magnaguard's staff? Hmm.



Yeah kinda. I heard a cool theory though that it's actually a 'light spear' or something like that, which would be so cool!


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## T.Allen.Smith

Gryphos said:


> Yeah kinda. I heard a cool theory though that it's actually a 'light spear' or something like that, which would be so cool!


It's called a saber staff.


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## Penpilot

MineOwnKing said:


> I compare it to a man not being able to see the flaws in the woman he loves. Or perhaps admiring a woman in a bar with my beer goggles on.
> 
> Love is blind.



For me, I prefer to look at things in a different way. I see all the flaws in the original trilogy, and yet I still love them. I've seen TFA twice, and I see the flaws in it. I'm not sure I love this movie yet, but I sure like it a lot.

So for myself, I'd make the comparison of accepting the person you're with, flaws included, and loving them still. Their flaws may still annoy you, but they may be endearing too.

But then again, there are some flaws that can not be worked passed. *cough* prequels *cough*


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## ushKee

Anyone else think it was completely absurd when Leia and Rey hugged? If I recall right, Leia didn't even see Rey at all because she was captured the whole time. The only way they could have recognized each other was...through the force. So pretty huge evidence that Leia and Rey are somehow related in my opinion, perhaps through Luke.


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## Legendary Sidekick

ushKee said:


> Anyone else think it was completely absurd when Leia and Rey hugged? If I recall right, Leia didn't even see Rey at all because she was captured the whole time. The only way they could have recognized each other was...through the force. So pretty huge evidence that Leia and Rey are somehow related in my opinion, perhaps through Luke.


Your reputation just went from 10 to 183 because you have a Darth Binxorz avatar.

And... funny thing, I didn't even think of that. I guess I just assumed Liea is her aunt and knew who Rey was. I think your explanation of the force makes better sense of...

...darn, I looked at your avatar and got distracted. Now I lost my train of thought. Messa lost meesa's train of thought.


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## Penpilot

ushKee said:


> Anyone else think it was completely absurd when Leia and Rey hugged?



Heyyyyy. You're right. I didn't even realize they hadn't met.

Funny thing. The hug that I did have an issue with was between Poe and Fin. It didn't feel like their relationship had earned that.


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## Tom

Penpilot said:


> Funny thing. The hug that I did have an issue with was between Poe and Fin. It didn't feel like their relationship had earned that.



I don't know about that...Finn saved Poe's life, they escaped together, each thought the other died, and then were reunited. That's more than enough material for a relationship to develop on. Plus, going through intense, life-or-death situations has a way of bonding people much more quickly than normal.


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## Penpilot

Tom Nimenai said:


> I don't know about that...Finn saved Poe's life, they escaped together, each thought the other died, and then were reunited. That's more than enough material for a relationship to develop on. Plus, going through intense, life-or-death situations has a way of bonding people much more quickly than normal.



There's only one way to settle this, prequel staring contest. We watch the prequels, and the first one to rolls their eyes or groan loses. 

As for that Leia hug. On another board, we were discussing whether Rey was a Skywalker or not, and I had this thought.

In the EU, which I'm not very versed in, Han and Leia have two children. Rey could be Kylo's sister.

So maybe Rey was being trained as a Jedi before Kylo destroyed everything, so that would explain why she can wield the force like she can. And it would explain Kylo's struggle with the light. In a moment of "weakness" instead of killing Rey, his sister, he abandoned her on Jakkuu instead.

Everyone, including Luke, assumed she's dead, so no search. And it would explain why Rey and Leia hug at the end. Hi Mom, I'm home.


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## Devor

Penpilot said:


> As for that Leia hug. On another board, we were discussing whether Rey was a Skywalker or not, and I had this thought.
> 
> In the EU, which I'm not very versed in, Han and Leia have two children. Rey could be Kylo's sister.
> 
> So maybe Rey was being trained as a Jedi before Kylo destroyed everything, so that would explain why she can wield the force like she can. And it would explain Kylo's struggle with the light. In a moment of "weakness" instead of killing Rey, his sister, he abandoned her on Jakkuu instead.
> 
> Everyone, including Luke, assumed she's dead, so no search. And it would explain why Rey and Leia hug at the end. Hi Mom, I'm home.



If she was Kylo's sister, and she recognized Leia, wouldn't she also have recognized Han Solo?

Still, I hope they did have another child - I would like to see Jedi order begin to reform.


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## Nimue

Me and my mom's theory is that Rey is the great-granddaughter of Obi-Wan Kenobi.  Similar outfits, similar skills at sneaking around giant evil star-bases.  Also, Obi-Wan's skill with the Jedi mind-trick, which Rey picks up immediately.  _Also_, during her hallucination in the basement you hear a voice say "Rey" that sounds an awful lot like Alec Guiness.  Eh? Eh?  Her being a Skywalker would be the obvious choice, but it'd be cool to get other wizarding Jedi families into the mix.  (In case it's not clear, I loved the movie.)


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## Ireth

Nimue said:


> Me and my mom's theory is that Rey is the great-granddaughter of Obi-Wan Kenobi.  Similar outfits, similar skills at sneaking around giant evil star-bases.  Also, Obi-Wan's skill with the Jedi mind-trick, which Rey picks up immediately.  _Also_, during her hallucination in the basement you hear a voice say "Rey" that sounds an awful lot like Alec Guiness.  Eh? Eh?  Her being a Skywalker would be the obvious choice, but it'd be cool to get other wizarding Jedi families into the mix.  (In case it's not clear, I loved the movie.)



Fun fact: that IS Alec Guiness' voice. They recycled one of his lines from the original trilogy in which he says "afraid", and clipped it so it sounds like "Rey".


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## Penpilot

Devor said:


> If she was Kylo's sister, and she recognized Leia, wouldn't she also have recognized Han Solo?
> 
> Still, I hope they did have another child - I would like to see Jedi order begin to reform.



Maybe, she didn't recognize Leia, Leia recognized her. Maybe she doesn't recognize Han is because she had some sore of traumatic memory block from being abandoned, or maybe it's a block implanted by Kylo using the dark side of the force. And it unlocks, or begins to unlock, when she touches Luke's lightsabre and accepts the Force as being a part of her.

Two more years of wild speculation, this waiting is going to kill me.


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## Legendary Sidekick

Ireth said:


> Fun fact: that IS Alec Guiness' voice. They recycled one of his lines from the original trilogy in which he says "afraid", and clipped it so it sounds like "Rey".


I just read that today, so I'm aboard the Kenobi train. It's hinted at, but not so obvious as a Luke or Leia reveal would be. (Not that obvious would disappoint, especially if I'm lured away from the obvious.)

Looks like I'm aboard the speculation train too. Or hit by it. Nobody boards the speculation train on purpose!


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## MineOwnKing

Penpilot said:


> Heyyyyy. You're right. I didn't even realize they hadn't met.
> 
> Funny thing. The hug that I did have an issue with was between Poe and Fin. It didn't feel like their relationship had earned that.



That's because the hug between Poe and Fin is an homage to the scene after Luke Skywalker blew up the Death Star. Luke jumps out of the xwing and hugs Han and Leia. 

This is what I meant in my original review about the constant homages, and the reason it felt like a remake. I could pick out many, many more.

I thought the Jedi had to swear an oath of celibacy. All the rumors on the web about the new characters being descendants confuses me.


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## Legendary Sidekick

Ahh... but did either of them call out the other actor's real name? That would've been a homage to Luke shouting "Carrie!"


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## Penpilot

Legendary Sidekick said:


> Ahh... but did either of them call out the other actor's real name? That would've been a homage to Luke shouting "Carrie!"



Does that still happen or did it get 'Special-ed' out?


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## Legendary Sidekick

It was probably specialed, with a large CGI creature tromping in the foreground so you can't even lip read "Carrie."


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## Penpilot

Legendary Sidekick said:


> It was probably specialed, with a large CGI creature tromping in the foreground so you can't even lip read "Carrie."



I just checked and you're right. And they modified the dialogue too.


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## X Equestris

MineOwnKing said:


> I thought the Jedi had to swear an oath of celibacy. All the rumors on the web about the new characters being descendants confuses me.



The old order did, though that was more about avoiding attachment than celibacy.  There's implications that sex without attachment might have been permitted.  Of course, that rule about attachment led directly to the downfall of the Jedi, by driving Anakin underground and ultimately into Palpatine's arms.  It might be best to change the rule.  And since Luke is the only fully trained Jedi left by the post-Ep. 6 time period, there really isn't anyone left to tell him he can't change the rule when he rebuilds the order.


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## X Equestris

An interesting tidbit about one of the scenes in the flashback:

Kylo Ren DIDN'T Kill The Jedi Students Before Star Wars 7? - moviepilot.com


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## Devor

X Equestris said:


> An interesting tidbit about one of the scenes in the flashback:
> 
> Kylo Ren DIDN'T Kill The Jedi Students Before Star Wars 7? - moviepilot.com



I was wondering if Luke's students were "killed" in the same way that Darth Vader killed Luke's father.  Who exactly are the Knights of Ren, anyways?

Also . . . . more speculation.  Does anyone else think that Captain Phasma is working for a third party?  I think she _let_ Fin escape and join the resistance, and fled the Death Star Supreme right after she lowered the shields hoping it would be destroyed.  IMO, they should check Fin for implants.


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## Legendary Sidekick

If she removes her helmet, a part of me will root for her. (Same actress that plays Brienne in GoT is why.) Captain Phasma being more than just a villain would be cool, even if she's not exactly a hero either.


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## Legendary Sidekick

Penpilot said:


> I just checked and you're right. And they modified the dialogue too.


Yes! I KNEW Harry Potter was a Jedi, and there's the proof.

Or is it "hairy," referring to shirtless George Lucus in the foreground?

(Disclaimer: no, that image does not resemble Lucas at all. For some reason, I pictured him saying in Lucas' voice: "Originally, Luke and Han locked arms and square danced for the duration of the credit roll...")


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## Penpilot

Legendary Sidekick said:


> Or is it "hairy," referring to shirtless George Lucus in the foreground?



It's this Harry.







As for shirtless Lucas, this Star Wars cameo is probably the closes we're going to get.


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## Legendary Sidekick

Hey... that's a blue screen behind him. You know what that means? It means more should happen on the blue screen than in the actual scene where George Lucas is involved.

Fix'd:


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## Penpilot

Legendary Sidekick said:


> Hey... that's a blue screen behind him. You know what that means? It means more should happen on the blue screen than in the actual scene where George Lucas is involved.
> 
> Fix'd:



Hahahahhahahahahahaahhahahahahahahahahahahha


Any way. Has anyone seen the Star Wars bad lip reading? Like the trilogy, the best one seems to be Empire. 

"STAR WARS: A Bad Lip Reading" - YouTube
"THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK: A Bad Lip Reading" - YouTube
"RETURN OF THE JEDI: A Bad Lip Reading" - YouTube


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## Gryphos

Here's a great analysis/review of TFA that I've watched. It's a little bit long, but very interesting.


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## Penpilot

A little something heart warming I found on a Disney artist's instagram feed. @briankesinger Ã¢€Â¢ Instagram photos and videos

There's more of them too.


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## Codey Amprim

So, I found these today upon my return to Facebook... I've been LOL'ing for an hour!


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## X Equestris

John Boyega says that Episode 8 is going to be darker.

[video=youtube_share;WqdhtZgac2o]http://youtu.be/WqdhtZgac2o[/video]


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## Penpilot

Some more Star Wars funny.


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## ChasingSuns

So before I say what I have to say about the film, I must point out that I know that I'm part of a minority in this opinion. That being said, I gotta say...

I thought the film was kinda weak. Rey and Finn seemed very flat, and I saw way too much recycled plot from Episode 4. I had a hard time getting around those. I actually thought that Kylo had the most substance out of the new characters by far. I also didn't care for the lack of presentation of the new political landscape. I mean, with the whole "blowing up the Republic" thing... I haven't seen these planets before, I don't know anything about them. Therefore, when I saw it happen, I just kinda went "meh". If they had blown up Coruscant... well, that would've evoked some emotion. That's a planet that I have seen before, that's a planet that I have made connections with. A system of completely unknown planets to me means nothing. Also, I had some serious problems with some of the dialogue. Also, some of the editing was kinda awkward in my opinion.

I could go on, but I'll leave my rant at that.

All of this being said, there were things that I liked about the film. As I said, I actually enjoyed Kylo Ren as a character. I also really liked that they gave Chewie a larger role (his bowcaster also got an awesome upgrade!). And the visual/practical effects were incredible. It was also pretty awesome seeing X-Wing/TIE Fighter dogfights so close to the surface of a planet. Also, props to JJ for keeping the lens flare at a minimum!

Overall, I thought it was ok. Not great, but ok. I gave it a 2.5 out of 4 stars.


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## Logos&Eidos

ChasingSuns said:


> So before I say what I have to say about the film, I must point out that I know that I'm part of a minority in this opinion. That being said, I gotta say...
> 
> I thought the film was kinda weak. Rey and Finn seemed very flat, and I saw way too much recycled plot from Episode 4. I had a hard time getting around those. I actually thought that Kylo had the most substance out of the new characters by far. I also didn't care for the lack of presentation of the new political landscape. I mean, with the whole "blowing up the Republic" thing... I haven't seen these planets before, I don't know anything about them. Therefore, when I saw it happen, I just kinda went "meh". If they had blown up Coruscant... well, that would've evoked some emotion. That's a planet that I have seen before, that's a planet that I have made connections with. A system of completely unknown planets to me means nothing. Also, I had some serious problems with some of the dialogue. Also, some of the editing was kinda awkward in my opinion.
> 
> I could go on, but I'll leave my rant at that.
> 
> All of this being said, there were things that I liked about the film. As I said, I actually enjoyed Kylo Ren as a character. I also really liked that they gave Chewie a larger role (his bowcaster also got an awesome upgrade!). And the visual/practical effects were incredible. It was also pretty awesome seeing X-Wing/TIE Fighter dogfights so close to the surface of a planet. Also, props to JJ for keeping the lens flare at a minimum!
> 
> Overall, I thought it was ok. Not great, but ok. I gave it a 2.5 out of 4 stars.



Know that your not alone, it's good to anybody that isn't praising TFA as the best Star Wars film sense 83 which it clearly isn't.


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## JediKnightMuse

*Disclaimer:* I didn't go back and read through all of the posts in this thread, but I did read some of them and I'll be quoting/responding to some of them in this. In case it wasn't obvious by my username, I'm a huge Star Wars fan, so I'm definitely jumping in on this.

I loved _The Force Awakens._ Yeah, they rehashed some of the same plots from _A New Hope,_ and I really wish they had done something different besides a third Death Star...but I didn't mind that so much. And I mean, the thing is, they had to introduce these new characters _somehow,_ so I'm not all that surprised that Rey, for example, has a very similar introduction to the way Luke was introduced. (And seriously, if she's not a Skywalker, I'll eat my metaphorical hat, because the signs are ALL THERE.) 

I feel like I'm one of the only people in the world who does not like Ben Solo/Kylo Ren. I think it's because right now he seems weak as a villain. He took his helmet off TWICE in front of an enemy- once in front of Rey and once in front of Han. He had a huge fit, which is very much a Skywalker trait so I'm not too surprised by that. He just...I don't know. He needs to prove himself to me.

Also, as someone who grew up reading the EU that no longer exists as canon, I'm way too used to Ben _Skywalker,_ Luke's son, not Ben Solo, so that name switch is really weird for me. (For non-EU readers, Ben was given that name after Obi-Wan, and I honestly don't feel that Leia and Han would have had the same connection and reasoning for choosing that name as Luke did.) 

Also, I saw someone say that Han and Leia had two kids in the EU- they actually have three. They have twins, Jaina and Jacen (so Ben Solo would be Jacen in this case) and a third kid, Anakin. 




MineOwnKing said:


> That's because the hug between Poe and Fin is an homage to the scene after Luke Skywalker blew up the Death Star. Luke jumps out of the xwing and hugs Han and Leia.
> 
> This is what I meant in my original review about the constant homages, and the reason it felt like a remake. I could pick out many, many more.
> 
> I thought the Jedi had to swear an oath of celibacy. All the rumors on the web about the new characters being descendants confuses me.



I don't know if it's exactly an oath of celibacy offhand, but basically they're not supposed to form attachments, which isn't the same as celibacy. There were plenty of Jedi in the Old Republic who still married and had kids (or didn't get married but still ended up with kids). There was a sect of Jedi called the Corellian Jedi who not only allowed attachments but they kept their families together and they either trained their kids themselves or they let a family member or friend train them. (I was running a Star Wars role play set in the Old Republic up until early this year and we had Corellian Jedi as one of the sects.) 

I've never fully understood the whole "no attachments/you must be celibate," (if they do have to take an oath of celibacy) because if they have to be celibate...how exactly are they going to create further generations of Jedi without expecting to have a bunch of Force created Chosen Ones running around? It doesn't make sense- someone, somewhere, has to break the rules and have a kid in order to further their own family line as well as create another generation of Jedi. 

In the EU, Luke abolished the no attachments rule. He basically had no choice, because he was starting from scratch with the Jedi academy and had to find as many Force sensitives as possible to train, which included many who were already adults and "too old" to be trained. I think he would have had to do the same both in the case of the academy and even as far as, say, Leia having a kid. He wouldn't have told her "hey, you can't have kids because it's against the Jedi code," especially because she didn't train as a Jedi. In the EU she did eventually train as one, but she was way into adulthood at that point. 

However, having said what I did as for as the celibacy goes, I don't think that Rey is a descendant of Kenobi. (There was also a rumor that she was, like, Anakin reincarnated? That makes 0 sense and I hope that's not the case because that's super lame.) Yeah, they dress similarly and have somewhat similar accents, but...that doesn't make her a Kenobi by default. Obi-Wan was a stickler for the rules. He even berated Qui-Gon because he was willing to go against the Council's orders in order to train Anakin in Phantom Menace. He wasn't going to be a hypocrite and go against the code and end up with a kid. It just doesn't follow his personality and the way he was set up in the movies. Some people were trying to say that she's his _daughter_ but that makes 0 sense because he wasn't even alive when Rey was born, and even if he had been, he'd have been an old(er) man. 

Also, it was actually Ewan McGregor who did the voice of Obi-Wan in the flashback that Rey sees when she touches the lightsaber. There was an interview several months back with him about he got called up to go and record it, and then he was asked about whether or not an Obi-Wan spinoff is a possibility. (I REALLY hope so because I REALLY want to see him play Obi-Wan again.) 

I DO think that Rey is a Skywalker. There are SO MANY SIGNS, it's ridiculous. What sealed the deal for me was the scene in the forest when she calls the lightsaber to her and it GOES PAST KYLO and RIGHT INTO HER HAND which was basically a smack over the head saying "HEY, THIS IS TOTALLY A PARALLEL OF THE SCENE IN EMPIRE WHEN LUKE IS CAPTURED BY THE ICE MONSTER," and she got the Skywalker theme (the slow version of the Star Wars main theme). 

I also think that the look that Luke was giving her at the end was one of sadness, because of Han, but also because he knew what Rey had been through, but also a bit of fatherly pride. Like "hey, daughter, you're finally about to begin the path to your destiny. Welcome." 

As far as Leia hugging Rey and Rey not recognizing her, I think deep down Rey at least recognized her to a small degree and that Leia knew who Rey is, which would be her niece, but it wasn't her place to tell her and that's why she was the one who was sent to find Luke. I really don't think she's a Solo, because there's no way Han and Leia would go throughout the entire movie only talking about a _son_ but never mention a daughter, and surely Han would have been like "hey, by the way, you're my kid!" He wouldn't have been like "hey, you're my niece," because it wasn't his place and he might not have even known. I think Luke was maybe with someone (maybe the new female character in Rogue One? I could get behind that idea) and they had Rey, and then the stuff with the academy/Kylo happened and her mother was forced to bring her to Jakku to keep her safe. I don't think Luke would have let her be brought to a place like Jakku of all places willingly, especially since he grew up much the same way and wouldn't have wanted that for his kid. I think he would have had to go into hiding before he could do anything to help Rey. I don't think he thought she was dead like some people, because he likely would have sensed that (unless, I suppose, someone used the Force to make it so that she couldn't be sensed by anyone). 

I'm going to stop here for now. 

Who else is excited for Rogue One? I saw the teaser trailer released not that long ago and it looks awesome. Super excited about it. Apparently there's a full trailer that's supposed to be released during the Olympics tonight? A friend of mine just told me that.


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## FifthView

JediKnightMuse said:


> Who else is excited for Rogue One?



This guy, apparently:


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## JediKnightMuse

FifthView said:


> This guy, apparently:



Ahahahaha, that was amazing.


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## FifthView

JediKnightMuse said:


> Ahahahaha, that was amazing.



I laughed so hard when I watched that.


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