# Cross-species romance



## Nameback (Apr 29, 2013)

Cross species relationships (of the romantic variety) are not uncommon in fantasy works. However, these relationships generally occur within the umbrella of humanoid characters--humans and elves or elf-like races being the most common, it seems. What you don't see very often are relationships between humanoid characters and non-humanoid characters. 

I bring this up because I have a bit of a dilemma. I just started writing a new POV character in my book, and he's a dragon. However, he's been cast out of his aerie and now lives among humans, in cities and towns, and works as a mercenary. Shortly after we meet him, he learns (from another dragon) of the brewing war between humanity and the non-humanoid races on the sub-continent where he lives. While I plan to have him ultimately end up taking part in the war on the side of his own kind, I want him to be very conflicted, and have divided loyalties. 

Since he's a young adult (about 20), and has only been living among humans for about two years, the most plausible way for him to rapidly develop an attachment to humanity seems to be through a romantic relationship. My dragons are based closely on Dromaeosaurids, such as Velociraptor and Utahraptor (including the feathers), so we're not talking a ten-ton monster here. Dude's about 6 feet tall at the hips and about 10 feet from nose to rump. So, uh, mechanically it should be possible, I suppose. 

Now the problem I've got is that while this would be a good solution for what I need plot-wise, there's kind of the whole bestiality angle. I don't want to gross out my readers, and it is a little icky. Obviously it's not as bad, from an intellectual standpoint, because these dragons aren't animals--they're intelligent and capable of communication with humans. But ultimately it's a basically a very large bird schtupping someone. It's weird. Can't really get around it. 

So, can I make it less weird? Obviously I would avoid any kind of sex scenes, but other than that how can I reduce the discomfort level? Or, is it worth the discomfort for the plot's sake? Or should I come up with an alternative to a romantic relationship altogether?


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## Steerpike (Apr 29, 2013)

I don't think you can get around the fact it will weird out a number of readers.

That in and of itself isn't reason to get rid of the idea, but I think you'll have to accept that it is the case.


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## Nameback (Apr 29, 2013)

Steerpike said:


> I don't think you can get around the fact it will weird out a number of readers.
> 
> That in and of itself isn't reason to get rid of the idea, but I think you'll have to accept that it is the case.



Well, like, I'm not married to the idea. It's just a means to an end: the POV character's divided loyalties. If I could accomplish that just as plausibly with another kind of relationship, then I would probably prefer that.


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## Steerpike (Apr 29, 2013)

Strong friendships, maybe he owes someone his life, etc. There are plenty of ways you can give him divided loyalty. Having it through romance is certainly an interesting one, however.


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## Nameback (Apr 29, 2013)

Steerpike said:


> Strong friendships, maybe he owes someone his life, etc. There are plenty of ways you can give him divided loyalty. Having it through romance is certainly an interesting one, however.



Hmmmm...owing someone his life might be good. I originally wanted to go the friendship route, but then I thought about it and decided that if you're asked to choose between your entire family, and your entire species, or a best friend you've had for two years, it seems unlikely to me that you'd be all that divided. Seems like a fairly easy choice.

But if he feels indebted to someone, such that his leaving and marching in the anti-human armies would feel like a betrayal, then that might be better...


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## Firekeeper (Apr 29, 2013)

Read the Firekeeper saga by Jane Lindskold (the title character is the inspiration to my screenname)

I'm doing more than just plugging one of my fave series, but I cannot think of better reading for you on this subject. You see, Firekeeper was raised by intelligent wolves, and thinks of herself as a wolf in human shape. When she decides to leave the wolves and enter human society, her favorite "brother" goes with her. Over time, their relationship becomes romantic. So you have a human and wolf professing their love for each other. Throughout the series, Firekeeper tries to find magical ways to become a wolf in body as well.

They never actually have sex, and it's made very clear that won't unless she can somehow become wolf. If you really want to explore this, The Firekeeper Saga needs to be required reading for you, as Lindskold depicts an inter-special love affair without it ever seeming weird or gross. In fact, by the time you're halfway through the series, it seems only natural and right that they would choose each other.


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## Feo Takahari (Apr 29, 2013)

I'd recommend creating the character he plays off of before you determine their exact relationship. What else do you want to do or say with the major characters in this story, and what kind of person could you use for that?


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## Impatience (Apr 30, 2013)

Love can happen between beings without having to be sexual in nature...if Disney can do it, so can you (think Beauty and the Beast).


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## AstralCat (Apr 30, 2013)

Personally I feel like it's not bestiality if the two races involved are both sentient and able to give each-other consent. I would be all for dragon/human romance. I think it sounds adorable.= Just so long as you make it make sesnse in the context of the story I would be all over that.

But yes... there would also be a large number of people who see it as weird. If you can accept that, then go right ahead.


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## Abbas-Al-Morim (Apr 30, 2013)

Perhaps a Platonic relationship would be best? They could still love each other but without the physical contact most romantic relationships have. It could even be the reason why it eventually doesn't work out, because they can't overcome their racial differences and the sexual aspect (or rather, the lack thereof) is one of the indicators of that.


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## Ophiucha (Apr 30, 2013)

I don't see anything wrong with them having a romantic, non-sexual relationship - it would be unconventional, but it wouldn't weird me out. I mean, if they can communicate and are sapient, it's natural that they could fall in love. But the bestiality bit would probably... maybe not 'creep me out' since it lacks the uncomfortable consent issues of actual bestiality, but it would befuddle me and make me worry for the woman (I assume they're a woman; the same would apply if it were a human man, though).

Some people would definitely think of the potentially sexual aspect of their relationship right away, though, so I would probably avoid the romance plot line unless you're writing adult fantasy (even if you do keep it non-sexual) - I don't think it would fly well in YA fantasy. _Maybe _children's fantasy, if only because it has a sort of 'innocence' to it from the start. But YA is a grey area where people will assume the worst _and_ be offended by it.


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## tlbodine (Apr 30, 2013)

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with an interspecies sexual relationship of this kind -- sentience removes the "ick" factor of bestiality for me -- but there are some logistics that come into play in regards to anatomical differences.  If you wanted to, that could even be explored a little.  Maybe this dragon-guy loves a woman deeply but can't consummate that for an obvious physical reason (And it doesn't have to be the obvious size incompatibility, either.  I'm thinking along the lines of a snake's hemipenis here, or the way that chickens mate -- roosters don't have a penis, but instead inseminate the female's cloaca through contact). 

That said, I think this sort of plot line is the sort of thing that probably shouldn't be embarked on if you're not enthusiastic about exploring it, because it has so many opportunities to get derailed (or lose some audience to the squick factor).  

Here's an obvious question:  Why did this guy get booted from this aerie?  Did somebody take him in/shelter him?  Is it important that he's only lived among humans for two years, or could you have him be abandoned at an earlier age?  Because if so, it seems likely to me that he could have just as much loyalty to his human "family" as his blood-kin, if not more.  

Or, for that matter, maybe he's just so cheesed off about having been exiled that he doesn't care about the dragon's cause.  Maybe he has a score to settle with the guy who booted him out and thinks it'd do him some good to lose a few battles.  Maybe he's decided that if they don't want him, he doesn't want them either.  Anger can be just as good of a motivator as love.


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## Nameback (Apr 30, 2013)

Ophiucha said:


> I don't see anything wrong with them having a romantic, non-sexual relationship - it would be unconventional, but it wouldn't weird me out. I mean, if they can communicate and are sapient, it's natural that they could fall in love. But the bestiality bit would probably... maybe not 'creep me out' since it lacks the uncomfortable consent issues of actual bestiality, but it would befuddle me and make me worry for the woman (I assume they're a woman; the same would apply if it were a human man, though).
> 
> Some people would definitely think of the potentially sexual aspect of their relationship right away, though, so I would probably avoid the romance plot line unless you're writing adult fantasy (even if you do keep it non-sexual) - I don't think it would fly well in YA fantasy. _Maybe _children's fantasy, if only because it has a sort of 'innocence' to it from the start. But YA is a grey area where people will assume the worst _and_ be offended by it.



It's adult fantasy. But yeah I've decided against it after all. 

To be fair though, the one benefit, I think, of the cross-species angle is that incest is now totally _passe_ thanks to GRRM, so if you wanna push the envelope you gotta go a step further. 

But seriously, I've decided that he was kicked out of his aerie because he attacked a mating competitor with intent to kill. Dragons have a less nebulous and chaotic social structure than humans, so the POV's actions are pretty egregious. Once a female makes her choice in mate, that's that. You have some competition before the decision, of course, but (as in many animals) traditionally that competition is not life threatening. To attempt to kill the chosen male after the female has made her selection would be extremely taboo. So he gets roughed up pretty bad and exiled. 

A human family finds him and nurses him back to health, and they have since developed a strong friendship. He has a lot of loyalty to them. I like this a bit because I can use this to highlight the differences in culture between the dragons and humans--dragons see humans as somewhat duplicitous and avaricious; whereas dragon social structure is fairly straightforward and role-bound, human social structure is (as we all know) often chaotic and requires constant maneuvering. Everyone's trying to move up and cast others down. Of course, the POV can sympathize with this human tendency, it being essentially why his own people cast him out. At the same time, he is (appropriately) ashamed of his actions and recognizes them as selfish and violent. So he's torn between a people who have accepted him and reflect the rare (among dragons) aspects of his character, and the people who have condemned him but for reasons he knows on some level are not wrong.

edit: I like this conflict better because it's more driven by his internal character and his history, and it's more thematic, as opposed to the more simplistic "well he loves this chick and she's a human."


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## Yellow (Apr 30, 2013)

Maybe you can go a different way than romance or friendship. What about some sort of parent-child relationship? Mybe dragon-guy is kicked out from his aerie at an earlier age, and is subsequently rescued and cared for by a loving human, or maybe he rescues a small human child or a baby whom he nurtures and cares for. A healthy parent-child relationship is at least as strongly binding as a romantic one, if not more.

Edit: oh, seems I was a bit late!


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## Saigonnus (May 1, 2013)

Mentor/Student relationship?


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## Devora (May 1, 2013)

I had a story idea similar to this predicament you're having. Only difference is that i scrapped the story because i couldn't patch up the holes in it.

You should have the characters portrayed to where the readers sympathize with their relationship.


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## psychotick (May 1, 2013)

Hi,

To me it sounds weird. Dragons are reptilian and there's a whole not too pleasant vibe associated with reptiles and sex type stuff. It seems to me that in order to reduce the weirdness you have to make the dragon guy as human as possible. Physically as well as emotionally. I mean is there any reason you're wedded to him having the form he does? Or could he have a more humanoid body. Maybe tail, some scales etc. But at the moment I have this strange vision of a small T rex in my head.

However sci fi beat fantasy to the weird sex thing years ago. There's a book called The Pollinators of Eden in which a woman has sex with an orchid, so maybe this aint so bad.

Cheers, Greg.

Cheers, Greg.


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## Kit (May 1, 2013)

LOL. There was an old 80's movie called "DragonHeart" in which the Dragon was voiced by Sean Connery. That was a sexy dragon.


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## Steerpike (May 1, 2013)

That better not have been from the 80s. Don't make me feel older than I am!


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## Kit (May 1, 2013)

Don't complain, do you realize how old SEAN is now????


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## Nameback (May 1, 2013)

Dragonheart was the bomb. Or at least it was to seven-year-old me.


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## Steerpike (May 1, 2013)

Nameback said:


> Dragonheart was the bomb. Or at least it was to seven-year-old me.



I looked it up.

1996.

Gracias a dios!


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