# Make it easier to see Member's books



## BWFoster78 (Nov 23, 2015)

First of all, keep in mind that I have no idea how difficult it is to make changes to the forum software or what's involved in running a forum.  I understand completely if what I'm suggesting is too difficult or too expensive.

I was just thinking that this is a forum for writers, and I'm starting to see more of us transition for pure hobbyists to people who are actually publishing stuff.  It'd be neat if there were a better/easier way for us to display our books.

I love how they do it over at kboards.  Thumbnail images linked to your books Amazon page are displayed in your sig file.

Again, I have no idea how difficult stuff is to implement, but hopefully this is a good suggestion at least.


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## Black Dragon (Nov 23, 2015)

How do they do it at kboards?  Do authors upload images to their signatures, or is there an automated process for doing this?


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## BWFoster78 (Nov 23, 2015)

Black Dragon said:


> How do they do it at kboards?  Do authors upload images to their signatures, or is there an automated process for doing this?



It's an app.  Basically, you enter your book's Amazon number, and it grabs the cover for you.  Super easy and cool.  Fantastic presentation.

EDIT: Here's a link about the "KB Author Signature Tool." 

KB Author Signature tool


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## Black Dragon (Nov 24, 2015)

It looks like they had custom software made to do this.  I'm afraid that it is far above my skill level (or budget) to accomplish something comparable.


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## Nimue (Nov 24, 2015)

You know, this could easily be done manually--just grab the book cover, resize it to a consistent thumbnail and make the image a link.  Maybe there could be a "service" thread where somebody/multiple somebodies could do this for anyone who asked, and output the result in a code quote box so it could be easily placed in the signature?  I do like the idea of being able to see peoples' books at a glance.


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## BWFoster78 (Nov 24, 2015)

Black Dragon,

As far as I can tell (and I'm not very savvy with this kind of stuff), the software simply simplifies the process of generating code.  For example, this is the code that it generates for my sig file:












 [br]Brian W. Foster | Website | Newletter | Facebook

Would this code work in my sig file here?  If not could it be made to work?

Seems like all that is really needed is someone to figure out a) what code is needed and b) write a primer on how to generate that code.

EDIT: Okay, the images won't work in the sig file (but I like how clean the links appear  )

Here's the line of code used to generate one of the thumbs.  I made minor modifications to make it appear as code (inserted "_"):

[_url=http://amazon.com/dp/B015XAJR1Y/?tag=kbsig-20][_img]http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51edLQhfcHL._SL125_.jpg[_/img][_/url"]"


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## Steerpike (Nov 24, 2015)

I (or another mod) could start a Member Book Store thread in one of the forums, and have cover images and links to the books in that forum. Any time a member has a book published, it could be added to the thread. Having one place like that would probably be better than having thumbnails in member signatures.


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## BWFoster78 (Nov 24, 2015)

Steerpike said:


> I (or another mod) could start a Member Book Store thread in one of the forums, and have cover images and links to the books in that forum. Any time a member has a book published, it could be added to the thread. Having one place like that would probably be better than having thumbnails in member signatures.



Steerpike,

That's better than nothing, but I have to say that clickable thumbnails in the sig files is a really, really neat feature.  I can't tell you how many books I've checked out from fellow kboard members because of it.  I'll be browsing threads and a cover catches my eye.  Much more exposure on every single post than a page you have to deliberately go to ...


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## Nimue (Nov 24, 2015)

I like the single thread idea because I feel like the sentiment is usually "I want to read more books by MS authors, is there a place to find them?" and because I like minimal signatures on forums.  But that's definitely from the member perspective, not the published author perspective.


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## Steerpike (Nov 24, 2015)

BWFoster78 said:


> Steerpike,
> 
> That's better than nothing, but I have to say that clickable thumbnails in the sig files is a really, really neat feature.  I can't tell you how many books I've checked out from fellow kboard members because of it.  I'll be browsing threads and a cover catches my eye.  Much more exposure on every single post than a page you have to deliberately go to ...



I think it works well from that perspective, and kboards is largely focused around that kind of thing. But I think thumbnails in member signatures here would look a bit...well, gaudy...and these boards have never been primarily a marketplace, which is why there are limits to signature files and where you can self-promote etc. Of course, if it is doable and Tony wants to go that route, it's his call. I'm just envisioning what the boards would look like if everyone had a thumbail or two or three in their signature block.


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## BWFoster78 (Nov 24, 2015)

Steerpike said:


> I think it works well from that perspective, and kboards is largely focused around that kind of thing. But I think thumbnails in member signatures here would look a bit...well, gaudy...and these boards have never been primarily a marketplace, which is why there are limits to signature files and where you can self-promote etc. Of course, if it is doable and Tony wants to go that route, it's his call. I'm just envisioning what the boards would look like if everyone had a thumbail or two or three in their signature block.



I guess part of the question is, "What is MS and what does it want to become?"

If it wants to be a place where published writers hang out, I think this is something that needs to seriously be considered. If it's a place where writers begin their journey or for writers who are primarily focused on writing for fun, then it's not really necessary.

When I go over to kboards, though, I love seeing all the thumbnails for a lot of reasons:

1) It leads me to check out books that I might not have ever noticed otherwise.
2) It's incredibly motivating. If those people can put out all those books, so can I!
3) Each of those authors put a ton of work into each of those books. I like that they can show them off with pride.

Again, if it can't be done or if that's not what MS wants to be about, I understand.


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## Devor (Nov 24, 2015)

A few things.

I'm a big fan of letting people promote themselves in their signatures.  I think that signature now looks very professional and neat, BWF, and I agree that it's inspiring to see members promote their accomplishments.

We have to be reasonable in what we attempt.  If we were going to put money into something, I could list a half dozen things that would have a bigger impact on the community.  We are not amazon.

If we really wanted to, there are ways to try and raise money for a project like this.  One of the sites I follow is a tabletop game review site called shutupandsitdown.  Four times a year they run a fundraiser where they put together "gold club bags" and sell them for $20 each.  That specific tact would be challenging because we're all in different locations, but I mention it because there are possibilities.

But aren't there other places on the site that we could host the information?  For instance, what about a spotlight widget that displayed different member books every time you pulled up the page?  The programming on something like might be easier.


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## BWFoster78 (Nov 24, 2015)

> We have to be reasonable in what we attempt. If we were going to put money into something, I could list a half dozen things that would have a bigger impact on the community. We are not amazon.



Like I said, I have absolutely no concept of what would be required to make such a change.  It doesn't look like generating the code (meaning the "bbcode," whatever that is) is a big deal at all, so the issue seems to be if the system will allow images in the sig file?


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## FifthView (Nov 24, 2015)

BWFoster78 said:


> Like I said, I have absolutely no concept of what would be required to make such a change.  It doesn't look like generating the code (meaning the "bbcode," whatever that is) is a big deal at all, so the issue seems to be if the system will allow images in the sig file?



If you go to the signature editing page and look below the text box, you see what BB codes are allowed.  Image codes are turned off.

The chief problem that could arise if images were turned on would be moderating those images.  People could post objectionable images.

I do like the clean look of MS.  If there were a way to limit the size of the images in sigs, that might help. For instance, if instead of the images you posted above, they were 1/2 that size or 1/3 that size, the site might still look somewhat clean.

*Edit:*  Just wanted to add, for clarity, that I suspect turning on image BB code for signatures would be very simple.  Other sites using vBulletin allow images in signatures.  I do not know whether size limits can also be set for those images; apparently Amazon's own images for links only come in three sizes.  Also, as for moderation, I don't know, but wonder, whether member privilege settings can be set for allowing images in signatures—so, say, after so many posts, etc.


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## BWFoster78 (Nov 24, 2015)

> The chief problem that could arise if images were turned on would be moderating those images. People could post objectionable images.



Since images are allowed in posts now, the same "problem" currently exists.  I'm assuming that the chief problem has something to do with storage space or something?



> I do like the clean look of MS. If there were a way to limit the size of the images in sigs, that might help. For instance, if instead of the images you posted above, they were 1/2 that size or 1/3 that size, the site might still look somewhat clean.



I think that if you reduced the covers much smaller than that, it would be kinda pointless as you wouldn't be able to read the title or discern the image at all.


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## FifthView (Nov 24, 2015)

BWF, I wonder if you saw my recent edit.  I'd just made it, clarifying what I suspect to be the minimal effort required to turn these on.

Yes, current moderation for images already exists.  I don't really know how big a deal that would be for images in signatures, but only that allowing images in signatures could increase the number of images appearing, and places images would be appearing, dramatically.


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## BWFoster78 (Nov 24, 2015)

FifthView said:


> BWF, I wonder if you saw my recent edit.  I'd just made it, clarifying what I suspect to be the minimal effort required to turn these on.
> 
> Yes, current moderation for images already exists.  I don't really know how big a deal that would be for images in signatures, but only that allowing images in signatures could increase the number of images appearing, and places images would be appearing, dramatically.



I didn't see that, so I'm glad you called my attention to it.

I don't know about moderation issues or "clean looks" or whatever else. I really think, though, that, if this is doable, it really makes a lot of sense for a site for writers to give its members the ability to post thumbnails of their covers.  Again, if it's not doable or too expensive or difficult for whatever reason, I understand completely. It would seriously confuse me, however, to not allow it for reasons other than expense/difficulty.


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## FifthView (Nov 24, 2015)

I also wanted to point out that there's another link on KBoards that allows generation of BB code for any given book:  Amazon Link Maker.

So I could enter the book title and it will generate various BB code for various links, like







This doesn't generate a full signature like the link Brian previously posted; but, it's usable by anyone to generate a quick link.

I would note however that all those links have "kbpst-20" appended.  This is an Amazon Affiliate ID.  Basically, when someone clicks on those links and then makes a purchase while visiting Amazon—it could be a purchase of anything, not just the book featured in the link—then the owner of KBoards gets paid a small sum.  (Actually there may need to be an accrual to a certain # before payment happens.)  I only mention this because going to KBoards to quickly generate the link will lead to the generation of links with their Affiliate ID.  If you are an affiliate, you can just as easily go to Amazon to generate your own image links with your own ID.  ("Affiliate ID" may be the old name for it; I'm not sure if they've changed it.)  Using another's ID on sites not owned by that person could potentially cause some problems, I think?


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## BWFoster78 (Nov 24, 2015)

FifthView,

Just to be clear (which I'm sure you probably understood but I wanted to make sure that everyone was on the same page), I don't think that we should use KBoards to create the BB code.  My thought was that it looks like the links are fairly easy to create (though I could be wrong about that).  If that is the case, we figure out how to generate the code and develop a brief tutorial that we sticky, kinda like what we do now with image files.


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## psychotick (Nov 24, 2015)

Hi,

I'm also a member of kindleboards and used to use their sig files to flash up book cover images. However I pulled them all down about a year ago. The reason was that kindleboards (like I assume this forum) has a lot of traffic - not all of whom are members, and some of whom are anti certain authors. One of the things I found was that whenever I posted something that someone disagreed with I ended up getting objectionable reviews on some of my books the following day. And reading through the threads on KB I was far from the only author to have that happen. (I assume that those doing this were lurkers not members.)

To me the single thread idea makes sense more so than having images in sigs which people can just click and go to your book the instant they read something in one of your posts that they disagree with. And really the idea of putting cover images in your sig line strikes me more as a marketing tool than anything else. One of the things I like about MS is that it's more a place for writers to hang out and chew the fat, pubbed and unpubbed, rather than a place like KB where its more about marketing / selling.

Cheers, Greg.


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## BWFoster78 (Nov 24, 2015)

psychotick said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm also a member of kindleboards and used to use their sig files to flash up book cover images. However I pulled them all down about a year ago. The reason was that kindleboards (like I assume this forum) has a lot of traffic - not all of whom are members, and some of whom are anti certain authors. One of the things I found was that whenever I posted something that someone disagreed with I ended up getting objectionable reviews on some of my books the following day. And reading through the threads on KB I was far from the only author to have that happen. (I assume that those doing this were lurkers not members.)
> 
> ...



Greg,

While I get your decision due to understandable fears, many other people, myself included, have made a different choice. I'd love to be able to make that choice here as well.

Thanks.

Brian


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## Black Dragon (Nov 24, 2015)

Please note that I removed all of the links from the images in this thread.  The links all contained Amazon affiliate codes for kboards.  If a site has too many affiliate codes, Google actively punishes it by lowering its search rankings.  I'm surprised that kboards hasn't been penalized in some way for this.


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## Black Dragon (Nov 24, 2015)

psychotick said:


> And really the idea of putting cover images in your sig line strikes me more as a marketing tool than anything else. One of the things I like about MS is that it's more a place for writers to hang out and chew the fat, pubbed and unpubbed, rather than a place like KB where its more about marketing / selling.



This captures my own feelings on the matter.


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## BWFoster78 (Nov 25, 2015)

I'm really grateful for this conversation because it really crystallized the situation for me.

The great thing about the internet is that, no matter what you're passionate about, you can find others who feel the same way. When I first discovered Mythic Scribes, I was passionate about becoming a better writer, and there were enough people here who were talented and felt strongly about the craft that I really got a lot out of the experience.

I think I still have a long way to go to be as good as I want to be as a writer. However, at the moment, I'm really passionate about learning to be a better independent publisher.

From the top down, this site is all about being a place to hang out and chew the fat. It absolutely is not a site focused on helping writers advance from whatever Point A they're at to whatever Point B that they want to get to.

Unfortunately, I have no interest is hanging out and chewing the fat. I'm passionate about getting from Point A to Point B.

Instead of swimming against the current trying to make this site into something it isn't and doesn't want to become, I really think that it just makes a heck of a lot more sense for me to spend my time at places that better suit my needs.

I appreciate the heck out of all the I've learned here, and anyone from this site can contact me anytime for anything.  For now, though, I think it best if I step away for a while to focus on other stuff.

Thanks and best of luck to you all.

Brian


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## Devor (Nov 25, 2015)

BWFoster, that seems to me like a disservice to the many, many conversations that have been held here trying to help you become a better self-published writer.  I can appreciate that you want more than to "chew the fat," but I think you're reading way too much from one comment.


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## Devor (Nov 25, 2015)

Thinking a little bit, I want to see if I can expand a little on Black Dragon's comment, and he can tell me if I'm off base.

But Mythic Scribes is not a place where an author should come just to help sell books.  We are a community of fantasy writers, and that community is our strength.  That tighter community is what separates us from a place like Kboards, or most other places on the internet.  People here get to know each other and build up respect for one another, despite and because of our differences, including our different places in the path to publishing.

I think the big concern with including images in our signatures is that it risks making our posts more about advertising than about building up that community.  What we don't want is to see authors come to Mythic Scribes and post here in an effort to spam their signatures.  That would be bad for the community, our "competitive advantage," the thing that makes us different.

It's a leap to go from there to assuming that we don't want to build each other up.

But I've heard Black Dragon talk about this before - the goal is to be a place for writers to collaborate.  We have come together on challenges, brainstormed solid stories, recruited one another for anthologies, talked about our work, pushed each other further, and shared data and insights on the publishing industry.  We put together an article team which publishes weekly and, I feel, has demonstrated tremendous insights into the writing process, motivation, mythology and warfare, and more.

I look forward to the next thought-provoking discussion, challenge, and collaboration, not simply to make small talk, but because they push me to organize my own thoughts and to test them in a community with others.


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## Steerpike (Nov 25, 2015)

@Devor

I think that's exactly right. We're focused on all aspects of writing and publishing. The craft, traditional publishing if you want to go that route, self-publishing, etc. I think the discussions in the forum bear that out. We have also had discussions focusing on marketing. So all of the aspects of writing and publishing that are important in terms of learning the craft and business are focus areas for the site. We're not a site focused on being a vehicle for advertising your works, however. Nor should we be, in my view. There are plenty of such sites. This is a place for writers, aspiring and established, to work together, discuss the craft and business of writing, and build one another up. That's the core of the community and what makes it so good. We don't want those aspects of the site to be overwhelmed by members trying to sell their books to one another. Which is why if we're going to have any section to focus on member works I think it should be a thread or area dedicated to that, where the information is easy for someone to find when they click the thread but not rampant in all of the posts on the site.


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## psychotick (Nov 25, 2015)

Hi Brian,

I'm sorry you found my comment about chewing the fat not to your taste. I've found many of the threads here on MS absolutely rivetting - even the ones I sometimes oppose strongly - and I think chewing the fat is absolutely vital for all writers at whatever stage we're at to do if we want to improve our craft. And it has been useful in terms of the publishing side of things too - with you yourself giving me the details of a great cover artist.

But I agree with Steerpike's comments. There is something really good about a writer's site that is not focussed almost completely on the commercial side of the venture.

However, I understand where you're at as an author, and my thought would be that there's actually no need to leave one site to join another. A few years ago when I joined kindleboards I did think it was the bee's knees as far as the other side went, and I did gain a lot of useful advice / ideas about marketing etc. However in time I began to realise that it wasn't where I was as an author, and moreover that a lot of the advice there was very select - only useful to one writer in one place with one book. This is a very fickle business and what works for one will not work for everyone. KB seems to me to be more a "ra ra" cheer team focussed on selling more than on writing. Having said that I still go there perhaps a couple of times a week, and sometimes comment etc. It's just that since I've realised that my passion is elsewhere I prefer places like this. Equally, I've found some success as an author simply by ignoring that entire side of the industry and just writing more books.

If selling is your game - and it's important to me too - I would say start running through Facebook where there are multiple pages looking at promotion of books, more where you can advertise etc and run promotions. Also Amazon itself has some boards - though I haven't been on them in years. The other thing that I've found useful is blogs of authors. You may have to do some googling - but some like Konrath are well known and highly entertaining (if a little rude!). Equally if you've sold enough to qualify the SFWA has its own boards which outsiders can't see and it may put you in touch with useful industry contacts. For me I haven't bothered joining since even though they have admitted indies to the membership I still think it's more focussed on the trade publishing side of things, and I have little interest these days in going that road. You may also find the science fiction fantasy chronicles useful as while they too are focused a lot on the writing side of things, they do have publishing pages.

I wish you well wherever your journey goes and look forwards to seeing you here as well from time to time.

Cheers, Greg.


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## Black Dragon (Nov 26, 2015)

BWFoster78 said:
			
		

> From the top down, this site is all about being a place to hang out and chew the fat. It absolutely is not a site focused on helping writers advance from whatever Point A they're at to whatever Point B that they want to get to.



That's not a fair comment.  A lot of people have put a great deal of time and effort into making this a place where writers do help one another to advance.  Our focus and approach is different from other writing sites, but that was always part of the plan.  You've been around here long enough to recognize this.

There are a lot of great writing sites out there, including kboards.  Those sites excel at what they do.  I always wanted Mythic Scribes to be different, as the world doesn't need a kboards clone.  One of the things that differentiates us from some of the larger writing sites is that we are focused more on helping each other, as opposed to marketing books to one another.  A lot of writers waste their energy trying to market their books to other writers, and that can change the tone of a forum.  That approach may be fine for other forums, but it's not want I want from Mythic Scribes.


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