# The Hybrid Method and How it Can Work



## Philip Overby (Jan 28, 2014)

Since we've had so much discussion about self-publishing recently, a method of publishing I'm still trying to learn about, I thought it might be good for those of us who plan to do go both routes and try the hybrid approach.

I first heard about this from Michael J. Sullivan, who has talked about this approach before. To me, it sounds the most attractive because you get the benefits from both forms of publishing: the exposure from traditional publishing and the freedom from self-publishing.

There may be some that argue there are no benefits to traditionally publishing. I wish more traditionally published authors came to Mythic Scribes to dispel this idea. While the market is shifting more and more, I still think traditionally published authors have a leg up. Right now I could only name about a handful of self-published writers, most of them I met here or on other social media. This may be a lack of exposure or whatever, but that's how it is. I suspect I'm not the only person who is like this.

So I would like to go both routes. 

How can this work? 

Well, I think there are multiple paths, but I'd like to hear some input. If you're planning to go the hybrid approach, what is your plan for your writing? Traditionally publish bigger work while self-publishing smaller ones? Traditionally publish more marketable fiction while self-publishing your more difficult to market work?

For reference here's a good interview that Michael maybe linked here before where he talks about his decision making when it comes to traditional vs. self-published advantages. 

http://www.digitalbookworld.com/2013/an-interview-with-hybrid-author-michael-j-sullivan/


----------



## psychotick (Jan 29, 2014)

Hi,

There are two ways to go hybrid. The first and the one that is most common and which will become very much more so this year in my predictions, is for trade published authors to regain the rights to their back lists and start putting them out anew. After a set time the rights revert to them and they have the already edited ms on their machines. It's simply a matter of whipping up a cover.

The second which is less common but slowly becoming more so, is for indies to gain trade publishing contracts. This will increase in my view because the mainline publishers are already begining to see that the rules are changing. It's become a much morevolume business, volume as in the number of different books they've got out there. So they will be, and according to many already are, fishing through the indie lists looking for those who haven't yet made it big but are on the cusp with an established track record of writing.

Cheers, Greg.


----------



## buyjupiter (Jan 29, 2014)

The Plan, in so far as I have one, is to try to traditionally publish shorter works to get my name out there as I work on the novels I've got going. When it comes time to send those out to market, I have one that should be fine for traditional publishers and is within the market as I see it, but the other may be a bit off-market/"out of style" at the moment so that will be self-published.

When the shorter works revert back to me, they'll go up on Amazon/Smashwords as well.

As far as the Twitter/Facebook marketing thing goes...we'll see. Mostly, I'd post pictures of funny cats and geek stuff and we have George Takei for that, you know? The blog will continue to go on full steam ahead and I think a longer format suits me better in any case. (I'm also less likely to sound like an idiot for spouting the first thing off the top of my head, and to me that's important.)

It may turn out that all of it is off-market at the moment and I end up self-publishing it all. Which is fine, as I have a fairly critical eye for what isn't working story-wise (and I'm learning how to fix those things as I write shorter fictions). I don't really worry about an editor as I have a fairly decent grip on the mechanics of writing and I have some really good first readers who catch my phrasing slip-ups.

The only reasons I hesitate to go full steam ahead into self-publishing everything is that A) if any marketing work could/would be done on my behalf by a trad publisher, that is an area where I'm weak and B) cover design is expensive. Point A could be overcome with the help of a dummies guide to marketing, which I can do, I just haven't done so yet. Point B is going to remain the same no matter what, though.

I did read Dean Wesley Smith's guide to New Year's Writing/Publishing Resolutions which gave me some of the ideas above. We'll see how it all shakes out within the next six months, as that's the arbitrary date I've given myself to get something published, either in a magazine or online.

It is a plan, but it still seems really shaky and scary at this point. Probably because so much of it is out of my hands. All I can really do is write a good story, make sure I know what markets are accepting what, and cross my fingers.


----------



## A. E. Lowan (Feb 2, 2014)

We're also currently planning on going hybrid.  Because there will be several shorter pieces that fall in between the novel-length episodes in our series, we want to go with traditional publication for the novels and then self-publish the short stories and novellas.  That's the plan, at any rate.  We'll see what actually comes to pass.


----------



## Chessie (Feb 2, 2014)

Anything is possible.  And I think its probably a good idea to flow and see where life takes you, although having a plan is always a good idea. I'm planning on self-publishing because I have a novella series that's rather strange fantasy and I'm curious to see how it will do. I don't ever discount the idea of traditional publishing though. You never know what can happen.


----------



## Kevin O. McLaughlin (Feb 3, 2014)

Ideally, a hybrid model gives you access to new markets - specifically, B&N and other chain stores. You cannot easily reach those as an indie. People who shop those stores may not shop for books online at all. So working with a large publisher that will distribute your work to those bookstores gets you in front of readers whom otherwise might be completely unreachable.

There are actually three models of hybrid.
1) Publish with trad pubs first, then recover righs later and self publish. This will become much more difficult in the future, now that all large publishers are demanding rights for duration of copyright as a basic element of all their contracts. Some writers are negotiating those clauses out, but it's becoming harder and harder to do so. But for now, writers who can recover their rights are self publishing those backlist books for some more income.

2) Indie publish some things, and send others to trad pubs. This pretty much only works with motivated writers who are able to spend a fair amount of time behind the keyboard, since you need to be producing multiple works per year to make it effective. Again, this is becoming much more difficult due to the non-compete clauses standard in most large publishers' contracts today. Those clauses will bar you from self publishing for "duration of contract" - and the contract is usually set to expire when the book is "no longer available in major retail channels". With the advent of ebooks, books NEVER leave major retail channels, so the contract - and the non-compete clause - last for duration of copyright. These clauses are IMHO dealbreakers, and are the main reason I am not even bothering submitting to publishers right now. Some writers have successfully negotiated them away (pretty sure Mike Sullivan did), but the word I am hearing is it's getting harder to do so.

3) Indie publish, get lots of readers, then sell books to publishers. In some cases, writers are selling books they already indie published - Mike Sullivan did that, and so did Amanda Hocking. Contrary to what some might think, selling more books makes a publisher MORE likely to buy the book, not less. Publishers can always find more readers. So an indie novel that sold only 10k copies might spark some interest in your next book - but an indie novel that sold 200k copies is going to spark a bidding war for rights to THAT book.

In the very best cases, the writer might sell print only rights to the publisher, and retain ebook rights, like Hugh Howey did with Wool. From the writer's perspective, this is the ideal scenario.

The downside to selling ebook rights is simple. By the time you have sold enough copies to get publisher interest, any offer they make for your work will represent a loss of income. Always. Amanda Hocking was offered $2 million for a four book series of new books. She did the math and realized that would represent a LOSS of income for her. She took it - to reach new markets, in the hopes that reaching new readers would benefit her overall career more than earning extra money on those books would. She was likely right. But this is a decision writers will have to make individually, and make anew for each book.


----------



## The Dark One (Feb 3, 2014)

I am a traditionally published writer but I'm probably an unusual case in that: a) I'm in Australia - where I suspect the ebook market is still behind the curve; and b) both of my publishing companies are quite small.

For what it's worth though, there are definitely (in my experience) major benefits to being traditionally published - mainly that my books are in most bookshops and they certainly would not be if I was self-published. 

Another thing that makes me unusual is that the publisher of my first book has closed his doors, so the rights have reverted to me. But there are still nearly a thousand hard copies in the distributor's warehouse and the distributor published the ebook, so now I've signed a contract with the distributor as effectively the publisher of my first book, which is getting a second wave on the back of my new book, which is going pretty well - even goes into the airports this week - so I'm getting quite a windfall on new sales of the first book because I get the publisher's share as well as the author's share.

Makes me feel a bit hybrid-ish, but I know I'm a strange case.


----------



## TWErvin2 (Feb 3, 2014)

This is how I see it:

While the hybrid model for an author may offer the best options--the best of both worlds, so to speak, that doesn't mean it will be an option for all, or even most authors. It presupposes that a traditional publisher is willing to offer a contract to an author for his/her work. It does happen more often now for self-published authors, once they've proven themselves. But there are still a limited number of authors that are/can be traditionally published (initially, or after self-publishing first).

That is when the author has the option to go with a publisher for their next novel, or go it alone and self-publish, and/or to release via ebook and possibly POD, their backlist of previously traditionally published novels.

What has changed is that the query/slush pile for agents or recommendations from established authors to their agent/publisher, is no longer the avenue (or predominant route) to obtain a traditional publishing contract. An author can self-publish and prove the marketability of their works, and translate that into an avenue to gain the notice of an agent/publisher. Even so, it's still a long shot, but one where the author has a bit more control over the route/destiny. An author can only do so much to perfect the submission package (and maybe build a potential platform). Focus and productivity, and successful efforts in marketing in while self-publishing can, through hard work, pay off--drive, persistence, and a little luck.


----------



## MichaelSullivan (Feb 4, 2014)

Kevin O. McLaughlin said:


> 1) Publish with trad pubs first, then recover righs later and self publish. This will become much more difficult in the future, now that all large publishers are demanding rights for duration of copyright as a basic element of all their contracts. Some writers are negotiating those clauses out, but it's becoming harder and harder to do so. But for now, writers who can recover their rights are self publishing those backlist books for some more income.



My 2 cents. I don't see the "life of copyright" going away anytime soon. My approach (and I've not been very successful to date) is to get the "threshold" that is used to calculate "in print" raised. I've seen things such as 100 books in two consecutive accounting periods (which generally means 1 year) or $500 in two periods - which is $9.61 a week.  So far publishers are keeping this bar extremely low - and under those types of conditions, yes you can pretty much expect that once you sell a particular book it will be gone for good.



Kevin O. McLaughlin said:


> 2) Indie publish some things, and send others to trad pubs. This pretty much only works with motivated writers who are able to spend a fair amount of time behind the keyboard, since you need to be producing multiple works per year to make it effective. Again, this is becoming much more difficult due to the non-compete clauses standard in most large publishers' contracts today. Those clauses will bar you from self publishing for "duration of contract" - and the contract is usually set to expire when the book is "no longer available in major retail channels". With the advent of ebooks, books NEVER leave major retail channels, so the contract - and the non-compete clause - last for duration of copyright. These clauses are IMHO dealbreakers, and are the main reason I am not even bothering submitting to publishers right now. Some writers have successfully negotiated them away (pretty sure Mike Sullivan did), but the word I am hearing is it's getting harder to do so.



Whether going hybrid or not - I HIGHLY recommend you NEVER sign a contract with a non-compete as described here.  It is more likely than not what will be put in front of you, but you have to hold your ground and get it defanged (it is unlikely to get removed).  Generally you should make sure that "what is considered competing" is clearly defined - and make sure that it allows for prequels, sequels and spin-offs.  And secondly, the "non-compete" window has to be small. For my own contracts "competing" works are limited to essentially the same story - I'm free to write anything I want as long as I don't use the same words as under contract - it is actually silly because the contract itself protects that - but if it makes the publisher happy to have it in there it's no skin off my nose.  As for time limit I do give them a window of exclusivity where I won't publish another book within a few months of either side of their books.  For me this isn't a problem as I wouldn't release closer to six months apart anyway, but for some you may want to get that stricken as well. I noticed that David Dalglish, who publishes with my publisher and also with 47North must have gotten this window small because he has had Orbit titles, 47North titles, and his own stuff all coming out together from Nov 2013 - Jan 2014.



Kevin O. McLaughlin said:


> 3) Indie publish, get lots of readers, then sell books to publishers. In some cases, writers are selling books they already indie published - Mike Sullivan did that, and so did Amanda Hocking. Contrary to what some might think, selling more books makes a publisher MORE likely to buy the book, not less. Publishers can always find more readers. So an indie novel that sold only 10k copies might spark some interest in your next book - but an indie novel that sold 200k copies is going to spark a bidding war for rights to THAT book.



I concur this is getting more and more common.  One thing to consider...which I didn't and wished I did...which is to retain the rights on the books you already have out there but be willing to write more in the series for them.  That way you still get control over the earlier works, but their marketing will aid in promotion.  H.P. Mallory did this.  She kept the rights to her first several books (I think it was 3) then signed a 3 book contract for 3 more.  Those new books got on the New York Times and USA Today list and the books she still owned the rights to had increased sales as well.



Kevin O. McLaughlin said:


> In the very best cases, the writer might sell print only rights to the publisher, and retain ebook rights, like Hugh Howey did with Wool. From the writer's perspective, this is the ideal scenario.



I agree this is the holy grail of hybrid.  I can count on two hands the number of authors who have succeed at this, and most of them are million+ sellers, so it's not easy. That being said, I ended up doing this too, but that meant going with a small independent press for the print rights.  This can work as these smaller presses are more flexible than the big six - who will really only do print-only if you have HUGE numbers.  The trick here...don't go with a small press that is doing POD (print on demand). They have to be the type of small press that has a print run, warehousing, and a good distributor. You should check out who their distributor is and what other publishers they represent.  If your small press is just going to do POD then you are better off doing that yourself as they have no value add.  The small press I went with is Tachyon Publications. They are small but they have a really good distribution network. I researched them in bookscan before signing. I think it is not unreasonable to ask how many print copies sold for their top titles as this indicates the type of reach they have.  



Kevin O. McLaughlin said:


> The downside to selling ebook rights is simple. By the time you have sold enough copies to get publisher interest, any offer they make for your work will represent a loss of income. Always. Amanda Hocking was offered $2 million for a four book series of new books. She did the math and realized that would represent a LOSS of income for her. She took it - to reach new markets, in the hopes that reaching new readers would benefit her overall career more than earning extra money on those books would. She was likely right. But this is a decision writers will have to make individually, and make anew for each book.



I wouldn't say ALWAYS.  I ran the numbers when I was deciding to sign - and yes I thought it would be a hit of $200,000 - $250,000. That turned out NOT to be the case, and I've actually made more than I would have.  But...a lot of that was due to some really good sales in foreign markets and audio (both of which I probably wouldn't have gotten had I stayed self-publishing).  If you are switching and staying in English US/UK and no audio - then yeah it may be very likely that you'll take a hit.

But then consider this...one of the first authors to make the "jump" from self to traditional was D.B. Henson who had a book entitled "Deed to Death."  That book went to auction and S&S did an accelerated release for it. The agent was Noah Lukeman which is very "A-list" so I'm thinking that book had an advance of at least five figures and probably six.  It's release was a huge flop. Even to this day bookscan (which represents 65% - 75% of actual sales) has it at  right around 1,000 trade paperbacks, so S&S will not come close to making back their money on that which means that D.B. pocketed a whole bunch of money for something that didn't have that kind of value.


----------



## MichaelSullivan (Feb 4, 2014)

TWErvin2 said:


> While the hybrid model for an author may offer the best options--the best of both worlds, so to speak, that doesn't mean it will be an option for all, or even most authors. It presupposes that a traditional publisher is willing to offer a contract to an author for his/her work. It does happen more often now for self-published authors, once they've proven themselves. But there are still a limited number of authors that are/can be traditionally published (initially, or after self-publishing first).



It's a very good point. "Saying" you want to go hybrid presupposes that you CAN get a contract.  So hybrid for most people will mean I have traditional and I also will do self.  But...as pointed out earlier you have to watch your traditional contracts carefully to make sure that you CAN do both - if I had signed what was first put forth, I wouldn't have been able to hybrid.  Make sure you read those contracts with an eye towards those clauses that might limit you.



TWErvin2 said:


> What has changed is that the query/slush pile for agents or recommendations from established authors to their agent/publisher, is no longer the avenue (or predominant route) to obtain a traditional publishing contract. An author can self-publish and prove the marketability of their works, and translate that into an avenue to gain the notice of an agent/publisher. Even so, it's still a long shot, but one where the author has a bit more control over the route/destiny. An author can only do so much to perfect the submission package (and maybe build a potential platform). Focus and productivity, and successful efforts in marketing in while self-publishing can, through hard work, pay off--drive, persistence, and a little luck.



I do agree that using self as a kind of "minor leagues" with the chances of getting picked up is now a legitimate path...but I wouldn't say it is the predominant route.  There are still many more contracts signed via the query-go-round.  There are some houses that are more aggressive at picking up self-published - in particular any of the Amazon imprints. A good portion of their roster had self-publishing successes.


----------



## Philip Overby (Feb 4, 2014)

Thanks for addressing this topic, Michael. You're the main reason I hoped to pursue the goal of being hybrid from some of your original posts about it. When I say hybrid though, maybe I don't so much mean with one of the Big Five, but more like maybe a small press and self-publishing as well. I'm not sure exactly where my writing will take me, so I guess I'm trying to be open to every approach that is available. I'm not positive, but I would guess some small presses might allow more freedom with self-publishing in their contracts than bigger publishers do. Of course, I'm just speculating as I'm still learning all this publishing jazz.


----------



## MichaelSullivan (Feb 5, 2014)

Phil the Drill said:


> Thanks for addressing this topic, Michael. You're the main reason I hoped to pursue the goal of being hybrid from some of your original posts about it. When I say hybrid though, maybe I don't so much mean with one of the Big Five, but more like maybe a small press and self-publishing as well. I'm not sure exactly where my writing will take me, so I guess I'm trying to be open to every approach that is available. I'm not positive, but I would guess some small presses might allow more freedom with self-publishing in their contracts than bigger publishers do. Of course, I'm just speculating as I'm still learning all this publishing jazz.



I would suggest you check out any small press very carefully.  If they are just using POD (which many do) then they are really just offering you cover design/copy editing which you can get for a fixed price that will be less than them taking 92% of print and 75% of ebook.  

What you want in a small press is some one who has bookstore distribution. They must be doing a print run, have warehouses and most importantly a really could distributor (who actually will be doing the bulk of "selling." 

From a contract standpoint small presses are MUCH better on a whole bunch of fronts.  I recently signed with a small press to release Hollow World and I got:


Print-only deal
Out of print determination that actually makes sense
Ability to buy books from them and sell on my site
Fixed length contract - I think 4 years but I would have to check
No rights movie, merchandising
North American English only (exclusive) with ability to sell in UK (English) up until a contract is signed with a UK publisher
No issue with non-compete

The big-five contract will generally want
[*]print, ebook, audio rights
[*]Joint accounting
[*]Out of print determination that essentially keeps it with them forever
[*]Ability to buy books but not the ability to sell
[*]Length of copyright terms
[/list]

The last issues are pretty easily negotiated...the above terms are going to be pretty hard, if not impossible to get changed.  It is reasonable to get World English (or NA English - depending on publisher), a de-fanged non-compete such that you can publish/self-publish (but there may be a small window of exclusivity around their release date.

I think you can do either - as with all things - you need to read the contract carefully, KNOW what each clause means, and consider the "worst case" scenario and minimize your risk with it.


----------

