# Designing a wyvern



## Wyverntales (Feb 27, 2016)

I'm in the process of 'creating' a small species of wyvern. Trying to make it as 'realistic' as possible. When I sit back and really think about the idea it really seems like a form of dinosaur with wings. Modeled mostly with raptor and archeopteryx in mind. I like to draw as well as try and write my ideas. I stalled while drawing my little wyvern when it came to the wings. Archeopteryx had feathers and they were of a particular shape and size. Most ideas the wyvern has leathery wings. Leathery wings with the same shape as those of archeopteryx would they even be functional? Or would it be just as functional as wings on an emu or ostrich? (Not getting airborne any time soon) Or should the wing structure be more like the pterosaurs or the bats? Extremely large wings that they 'walk' or crawl with as well as fly. I've thrown a bit on the drawing board... I'm thinking of also forgoing the poison tail/scorpion tail with this one. Maybe give it venomous fangs... still working that one out. I'm creating a story with this creature as a main character, doing something a bit different. Trying to give wyverns a new look or just a new species. Curious about other people's thoughts.

Sent from my SM-G360G using Tapatalk


----------



## Jerseydevil (Feb 27, 2016)

I would imagine that the size of the wings in relation to the rest of the body will be more of an issue than the shape or whether it has feathers or not. The biggest issue that I had with dragons wyverns and other flying creatures is that a creature that massive would have to have wings many, many times larger than depicted. Remember the square-cube rule 

Taken from Wikipedia, the most reliable source on everything ever: _When an object undergoes a proportional increase in size, its new surface area is proportional to the square of the multiplier and its new volume is proportional to the cube of the multiplier._

For people like me that are math illiterate, this means that if an object grows three times it's size, the surface area is the three squared, and the new volume is three cubed. Maybe. Probably. Look, I'm a historian, not an engineer. 

That means that if your wyvern is five times the size of an alligator, it would not weigh five time as much, but instead be exponentially heavier. The wings would have to be massive beyond normal proportion, or have some other type of lift mechanism, such as an internal gas compartment or something like that. 

Just my 1.5 cents.


----------



## TheKillerBs (Feb 27, 2016)

Jerseydevil said:


> That means that if your wyvern is five times the size of an alligator, it would not weigh five time as much, but instead be exponentially heavier.



No it would not. Flying vertebrates tend to have hollow bones, which drastically reduces their weight. For example, _Quetzalcoatlus_ is estimated to have been 10 m long with a 10 m wingspan, and to have weighed between 200-250 kg. The average American alligator is 4 m long and weighs around 360 kg.


----------



## psychotick (Feb 27, 2016)

Hi,

I hate to be the voice of reason - and it very rarely happens! - but it's fantasy. Yes the inverse cube rule sucks big times and it's why ants can lift fifty times their own weight, fleas jump two hundred times their own height, and elephants can't jump at all. And at the same time consider that nature itself seems to like getting stuck into the weirdness. Consider that an elephant can't gallop, and when it walks or runs it always has at least two feet on the ground. An elephant weighs five tonnes and has four legs. A T rex on the other hand apparently weighed nearly twice that, had only two legs meaning that only one leg at most was on the ground when it wandered about, and yet according to archaelogists was quite a fast runner! 

Accordingly yes, I'd say account for the wyverns large size by talking about hollow bones and huge wings etc. Also massive muscling of course. Don't give it Disney hummingbird wings! But don't sweat it either. You only need to do enough to let readers cross that barrier of disbelief.

As for making it look a bit like a pterosaur - why? Yes they were big as flyers go - but do they look anything like flying dragons or wyverns in your imagination? I'd stick to a more traditional shape. I'd also dump the venom. Not only does it not really fit with the archetypes too well, but what's the point? A creature that big would bite you in half in one gulp. Why bother poisoning you? It'll just get stomach ache!

Cheers, Greg.


----------



## TheKillerBs (Feb 27, 2016)

He said "small species". Also, animal venom is usually just modified saliva that is perfectly digestible. Sometimes it even aids digestion.


----------



## evolution_rex (Feb 27, 2016)

It'd be more Pterosaur than dinosaur. I imagine a Pterosaur, without a headcrest and nice teethy jaws instead of a beak. It'd have to be huge, a lot of room for it's barrel chest that would contain any sort of chemical that allows it to breath fire.


----------



## CrystalCHTriple (Feb 28, 2016)

I like the idea of realism influencing the design of fantasy creatures. It makes the world more unique, in my opinion. 

Now, I would consider the organism's thermoregulation. Flight is energy extensive, and it is likely an ectotherm (a reptile, specifically) would have a difficult time flying, and considering you want venom, you could make the organism a mesotherm, an intermediate; it can maintain its temperature to an extent, and its venom can help conserve energy when hunting.


----------



## Mirrortail (Apr 30, 2016)

If they are small, perhaps make them bright colored to scare away large monsters, like poisonous frogs do.


----------

