# Help with Elaborating on Initial Themes



## SmokeScribe98 (Aug 6, 2013)

Buonasera, I am new to these forums so please forgive me if I accidently post this in the wrong section, I read the rules when joining a forum but I often miss some things, so sorry. 

I am at the early stages of planning my novel thus far and I am in the process of creating a map for my world, a technique I learned from Holly Lisle. This is my first proper attempt at a serious novel so I want to plan it out with great elaborate detail so to avoid the abyss of failure I sunk into with past attempts when I was stumped for what to do next due to lack of planning.

The general message and tagline of the plot is about how meaningless human conflicts are and how insignificant their squabbles are when faced with a colossal enemy of great threat to the entirety of time and space itself. The general plot will revolve around the conflicts between great houses, religions, nations and political systems in the continent, something akin to Game of Thrones or The Borgias. But underneath all the turmoil, intrigue and plot there is an entity at work of such magnitude that the destruction of mankind can be likened to a child burning ants with a magnifying glass. I want this entity to operate on fear and the greatest weaknesses of humanity, I want it to be something of such grandeur that his being is but a whisper throughout all the cultures and religions of the universe. The inspiration for this entity came from the two parter episode of Doctor Who The Impossible Planet and the Satan Pit as well as the work of H.P Lovecraft so if you could help me develop this and guide me on how to introduce this threat I would be much appreciated as I am stuck coming up with how to introduce this threat at the moment or in fact how this entity will actually threaten everything so much that the protagonist must talk sense into these conflicting parties and attempt to bring them together. 

As for the entire world itself I want it to be Renaissance themed. Originally when coming up with an idea for a novel I wanted to do a historical fiction book set in Renaissance Italy but it appears that coming up with an entire new world complete with different religions and cultures is an easier option than writing a book set in a period from our own history. 

A map of the continent I have been working on can be seen on the site I have linked below (please ignore all the other stuff on the site, just stuff for ESO):

http://blackwaterarchives.wikispaces.com/

I have a lot of ideas in mind for the different factions et cetera that will feature in the continent. I want the majority of action to take place in the small claw like outlet coming out of the middle island and mirror the squabbling between city states of Italy in the 15h and 16th century and the inland island itself to be something akin to the ancient roman empire but I haven't thought through many other ideas in great detail yet so please if you have any ideas please tell me. 

So if you can help me in coming up with ideas for the map et cetera or the enemy and overall plot of the book I would be very grateful. Thank you  Grazzie...


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## ThinkerX (Aug 7, 2013)

Sounds a bit like my world...which I spent years developing and changing around.

Good News: You got an interesting concept, one with a fair amount of potential in a 'Black Company'/'Malazan'/'Game of Thrones' way.

Bad News: You are going to end up having to do most of the heavy lifting yourself.  As it is, you didn't really provide enough to make much commentary on.

As to your map...I don't see an indicator of scale, and your post gives no indicator of size.  Is the map fifty miles on a side...or five hundred?  I see no cities delinated, though I do see lots of colored lines (roads? political boundaries?)

At this point, you need to come up with some names and at least a rudimentary history before I, at least, can do much.

Unless you have other writing credits, this project may be overly ambitious.  My recommendation would be to write some short stories set in your world.  The next 'Iron Pen' challenge should be starting in a few days, or maybe a week.  Enter it.


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## PaulineMRoss (Aug 7, 2013)

A quick comment on the map: your rivers seem a bit - erm, odd. Some of them are OK, they start in the hinterland merge together and end up in the sea. Some of them sort of meander along the coast, which might work if there are hills/mountains inland. And some of them go from one side of a landmass to the other, or emerge on both sides of a lake, which rings all sorts of alarm bells to me. On *our* world, rivers have a starting point which is high (in the mountains), and they flow downwards to the sea. If you have a chain of mountains, rivers will start on both sides of it. What they don't do is run from coast to coast, and a lake will only have one outlet.

So I would say: unless physics works differently on your world (and if it does, yay! go for it!), you need to rethink where your rivers are.


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## Chad Lynch (Aug 7, 2013)

First of all, is there any counter to this supernatural evil, or any hope at all that the mortals of the world can stand against it?  A Lovecraft story can be great fun, but remember, they are almost always a supernatural horror short story.  While Martin's Game of Thrones is pretty dam good genre writing, I gave up on it after a while.  I can only take so much of "look at all of these awful people doing awful things.  Gee, isn't it all pointless?" no matter how excellent the dialog or descriptions.  When virtuous actions _always_ leads to death and failure I tend to lose interest.  Seems there's a market for it, just not my cup of tea.

As for the map, yea, a lot of the rivers don't make sense.  I like the look of it otherwise.  The isthmuses and straights should be important places in terms of commerce and military importance and should lend themselves to scenes of conflict.  Try looking at a topographical map of norther California to get a feel of how rivers run in relation to mountains.  The topography is easy to understand.  Rivers tend to run away from a mountain chain at right angles.  If the chain runs north to south, the river will run mostly west or east, at least until it reaches a plain.  Once a river gets near a coast it might meander a bit, but in general it will make for the sea, not run along the coast.

Another bit to think about is something called a rain shadow.  In certain places on our world, along the Sierra Nevada range and the Andes for instance, the mountains are high enough, stand in deep enough ranks, and are long enough that they cause the storm systems that pass over them to give up most of their moisture as they transit from one side to the other.  This means that the land on the lee-ward side of the range is a desert while the wind-ward side is green.  Passing over the Donner pass one can see a clear demarcation where green pine and grass gives way to dried out sage rather suddenly.

Geography may seem to have little bearing on the story you're going to tale and it may never show itself directly in any given scene, but it will, or should, provide a logical basis for your world's politics, economy, and wars.  I've always been a bit of a geek when it comes to maps, and bad fantasy maps have always been a bug-a-boo of mine.


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## WooHooMan (Aug 7, 2013)

This kind of reminds me of the Good, the Bad and the Ugly.  The Lovecraftian monster in that movie was the Civil War.  No matter what terrible things the characters do, it's all insignificant when compared to the Civil War which is a constant thing in the movie though it has little to do with the plot.

So, I guess my advice would be to check-out the movie and try to analyze how it fits an anti-war message into its narrative.

As for the map, what you need to understand that rivers are basically a stream of water flowing towards a different body water.  They need to flow downhill so rivers generally start at mountains/high lands and flow towards the sea or into lakes.  Make mountain ranges first and then draw rivers based on the mountains.  I would also recommend making a nation map first and then put mountains and rivers on the nation's borders.  Even though the method is the reverse of how it works in real-life.


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## SmokeScribe98 (Aug 7, 2013)

Yeah, I understand the map is in need of a lot of work. As I said originally I am at the very beginning stages of the story at the moment so I just wanted to make a small map that I will add more and more detail to over time. But thank you, I'll try and fix those rivers you mentioned before.


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## SmokeScribe98 (Aug 7, 2013)

This may be slightly off topic but I just wanted to show you a short story I did for an English GCSE, maybe from how I wrote that you would get a better idea of what type of writer I am and if you think I am better suited to historical fiction rather than fantasy or short stories rather than epics. 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Prologue- The Gift

Lucia awoke to the echoing ring of the cathedrals bells and the sudden daunting realisation that the day she had feared had finally dawned upon her. Her childhood was no more. Lucia opened her red velvet blinds and stared out into the city over the sloping slate rooves of Florence and towards her new home along the rolling Tuscan hills.

“Lucia!” Her mother beckoned her. “Today you are Lucia Moretti no longer, today you’re a Romano.”

As Lucia descended down the golden stairs of her villa, the home she had known for nineteen years, a feeling of anxiety and uncertainty settled in her heart. Lucia knew that all her identity and importance mattered no longer. She was nothing but a gift, a transient for political and economic means and her love for Valentino mattered not. She had heard tales of the Romano’s from Valentino before, that they were an emotionless, Machiavellian family who were responsible for the silencing and execution of many of Florence’s free thinkers and opposers of the Romano. She knew that Valentino himself had a personal vendetta against the family after they had framed his brother and had him killed, so subsequently she feared the marriage greatly.

Later that day, upon arrival of her new home she stood before the house in awe of the overwhelming magnitude of the villa. Sweltering under the unwavering reign of the Italian sun, Lucia walked through the crisp, sun-glazed yellow grass and opened the door to the Romano house.

Once during a night stroll along the Ponte Vechio with Valentino he had told her about her new husband Giovanni whilst sitting on the edge of the bridge staring out into the glistening moonlit Arno.

“It’s so liberating out here” Lucia sighed. “I despise small, compact spaces, here I can be free, here I can be myself… not just some cog in a system”.

“Indeed” Valentino replied. “You best enjoy this liberty as much as you can, those Romano dogs will strip it from you soon.”

“What of my husband, Giovanni, you’ve spoken much about the corruption of the family but little about him.”

“He’s a solitary one” Valentino replied looking deep into the fathoms of the Arno. “An ex condottiere, word is that he went on a rampage after the sacking of Volterra, killing soldiers on both sides. He’s been silent since, no doubt plotting to silence his opposers too.”

Opening the door to the new Romano villa Lucia made her way into the new home after a stale and unenthusiastic welcome. Her new family looked at her with subtle signs of disdain and some signs of lust. At the back of the corridor sat Giovanni smiling maliciously at Lucia. As she saw his twisted, scarred face turn to see her, a deep feeling of unease and helplessness dominated her being.

“Hello Lucia” He said. “I hope we can get to know each other a little better soon. Cosimo will show you around the villa, I have business to attend to.”

Lucia looked around the luxurious interior of the villa with its magnificent paintings and elegant marble floor as Cosimo gave her a tour of her new habitat. Cosimo was bruised and wounded badly from beatings by his masters, Lucia feared the same fate. She knew at that point that she could not live contently under the oppression of the Romano’s.

“Here is the study, be careful going in there as the lock is a little stiff, down that way is the…” Cosimo said before being interrupted by Lucia.

“Are you happy working for these people Cosimo?” Lucia inquired.

“Well, er…. no. But it’s the best work that I can find. I’d advise you to get out of here as quickly as you can, Giovanni’s had an arranged marriage before and his wife tragically died due to some “terrible accident” after the dowry money had been paid. Leave or please the family, else you’ll end up in the cellar” He whispered.

It was the moment that led Lucia to her decision. Valentino had suggested that she kill Giovanni and flee to Genoa with him before, she was not unfamiliar with murder and after hearing the countless tales of the corrupt family and Giovanni’s sins her decision was made. She would kill Giovanni and avenge all those who had suffered from their corruption so that she could finally be free and live as a human, not just a mere gift, in the streets of Genoa with the person she truly loved.

A few hours later as the sun set over the illustrious streets of Florence, Lucia stood leaning over the wall of the balcony wondering, dreaming, hoping that one of the civilians like mere ants below endured a pain similar to her own. She didn’t want to live life as a pawn or a gift any longer. She knew what she had to do. Just as she was about to leave to prepare herself she could hear the secretive whispering of Giovanni and his brother plotting elusively behind the lush vineyard below the balcony.

“You can’t be serious Giovanni.” His brother said. “She only just got here and you’re getting rid of her already?”

“It’s for the best Mario. We need to deal with the Valentino boy as well, you should…”

Lucia had knocked over a potted plant, interrupting the conversation.

“What was that?” Giovanni shouted.

“Just the wind brother. I’m heading to Carnevale with everyone else in town, are you coming Giovanni?”

“No, I’ve got to finish some business off in my study.” He replied.
Lucia knew that not only her but Valentino were now at risk, action had to be taken immediately. The frenzied Lucia marched down the stairs with one thing in her mind, justice. The time had come; Giovanni was alone at home, working in his study, the voices called to her pleading for his swift execution. Lucia desperately grabbed on to one of the rapiers mounted on displays around the house, rushing down under fear of having second thoughts, Valentino’s voice echoing in her head and demanding vengeance, she stood outside the study. The time had come; she creaked the door open and closed it swiftly behind her whilst unsheathing the blade. He sat working at his desk as she made her attack. 

“Arriverderci my love!” She exclaimed, plunging the blade deep inside her husband. “Goodnight”.

As she withdrew the blade from his back he collapsed over his desk holding a quill in his hand. Lucia looked over his shoulder at what he had been writing and began to cry in guilt and disbelief.

“Dearest Lucia” It read. “I understand your discontent and repulsion of this house, this family is a poison on the streets of this city and I can not stand by and see a similar fate befall you as it did to my past wife. My time as a mercenary gave me great understanding, humanity can not work as a machine and we need our freedom, our equality, and our love to keep us sane. We can not follow orders blindly as I was made to do during my service. All I did was disobey an order and I’m labelled a psychopath for it. I sense the willingness for liberty inside you, I will do everything in my path to annul this marriage and I have already made plans for you and Valentino to flee to Sicily so that you may live freely. I would talk to you personally but I fear you distrust me; please leave before the venom of this family corrupts you too. Good luck Lucia Moretti”.

Lucia dropped the blade in shock and rushed to open the door. The door jammed as Cosimo had warned her and she was imprisoned in the study soaked in the blood of an innocent. As hours went by all she could do was regret and cry until the day dawned and she would answer for her crime. In her haste to save the world around her she had destroyed her own.


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## Butterfly (Aug 7, 2013)

> This may be slightly off topic but I just wanted to show you a short story I did for an English GCSE, maybe from how I wrote that you would get a better idea of what type of writer I am and if you think I am better suited to historical fiction rather than fantasy or short stories rather than epics.



It depends on what you want... Write whatever speaks to you because no one can tell you what you should be writing. It's entirely down to you. 

Bear in mind... there's no reason why you can't diversify and try several genres, be they historical and fantasy, crime and sci-fi, even shorts or novels, and nothing to say you can't combine them into cross-overs, such as fantasy-sci-fi, horror-fantasy, crime-fantasy... etc.

There's also nothing to say you can only work on one project at a time, or on one type of work at a time be they short stories, novellas, novels, trilogies, series.

If you're stuck for ideas look at the types of basic plots that are out there. Frequently Asked Reference Questions

The hero's journey (there's a thread hovering around discussing it) http://mythicscribes.com/forums/writing-questions/9323-why-heros-journey.html

Look at the types of conflict on a personal level - 7 Types of Narrative Conflict

And these books might help - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Writers-Com...sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1375874037&sr=1-1& http://www.amazon.co.uk/Writing-Fan...ans+fantasykeywords=fantasy+writers+reference (They helped me out by miles).

When you have your world, throw in some characters into the middle of it and see how they fend for themselves. They might surprise you.


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## Gurkhal (Aug 7, 2013)

SmokeScribe98 said:


> The general message and tagline of the plot is about how meaningless human conflicts are and how insignificant their squabbles are when faced with a colossal enemy of great threat to the entirety of time and space itself.



I don't really like how you have formulated the message. I would probably re-phrase it as "How minor squabbles can distract us from the real threat." It should be pretty much the same but in my ears it goes easier.



SmokeScribe98 said:


> The general plot will revolve around the conflicts between great houses, religions, nations and political systems in the continent, something akin to Game of Thrones or The Borgias. But underneath all the turmoil, intrigue and plot there is an entity at work of such magnitude that the destruction of mankind can be likened to a child burning ants with a magnifying glass. I want this entity to operate on fear and the greatest weaknesses of humanity, I want it to be something of such grandeur that his being is but a whisper throughout all the cultures and religions of the universe. The inspiration for this entity came from the two parter episode of Doctor Who The Impossible Planet and the Satan Pit as well as the work of H.P Lovecraft so if you could help me develop this and guide me on how to introduce this threat I would be much appreciated as I am stuck coming up with how to introduce this threat at the moment or in fact how this entity will actually threaten everything so much that the protagonist must talk sense into these conflicting parties and attempt to bring them together.



As you write this great enemy it sounds like maybe it shouldn't be totally defined but more of a horror which if you get enough knowledge to understand what it is, will destroy you, in true Lovecraftian tradition. I would probably run it with human minions and having this "thing" be in the background and coming closer all the time, and avoid its entrence into the spotlight into the end of the novel.



SmokeScribe98 said:


> As for the entire world itself I want it to be Renaissance themed. Originally when coming up with an idea for a novel I wanted to do a historical fiction book set in Renaissance Italy but it appears that coming up with an entire new world complete with different religions and cultures is an easier option than writing a book set in a period from our own history.



You know, actually setting the books in a historical time can be easier for you since it leaves you with not having to invent the wheel all over again, but only ensure that you have the period researched and then get going. Making a good map and coming up with interesting and plausable cultures is a hard job that you can actually get around by setting it in an historical time. 

Making an imaginary world is ALOT of work after all.



SmokeScribe98 said:


> I have a lot of ideas in mind for the different factions et cetera that will feature in the continent. I want the majority of action to take place in the small claw like outlet coming out of the middle island and mirror the squabbling between city states of Italy in the 15h and 16th century and the inland island itself to be something akin to the ancient roman empire but I haven't thought through many other ideas in great detail yet so please if you have any ideas please tell me.



Well it sounds pretty good as you tell me. You might want to make some overview of these cultures, post them, and we can make some suggestions based on it.


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## SmokeScribe98 (Aug 7, 2013)

Thank you for the support everyone. I've attempted a historical fiction book set in the Renaissance before but I found myself feeling uncomfortably limited by history and I couldn't really think of a plot that could last a whole book, only things that could fit short stories. While I am slightly daunted by the amount of work I have in front of me for this fictional world I have a lot of ideas and have seen plenty of fantasy films, TV, games, books et cetera that I can draw inspiration from and of course I can also draw plenty of inspiration from Renaissance history. While I don't like having to deal with every little detail of Renaissance history in my writing I do really enjoy the period so I think I will definitely bring a lot of it across, small city states squabbling with each other, a boom in culture and arts, discovery of far away lands et cetera. 

Thank you for guidance with the antagonist as well, I was wondering myself whether to have the plot be about spreading the news of this approaching threat and forming alliances or to drop hints throughout the novel and only have it appear towards the end and I think I have decided on the latter, it also gives me reason to see this one through to the end where as before I tend to stop mid way in my work.


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## WooHooMan (Aug 7, 2013)

I'd go with that latter.  I think enemies teaming-up to fight a greater bad guy is a little, for lack of a better word, cliche.  It would also only be a temporary solution to their conflict.  Like once the big enemy is defeated, they'd just go right back to fighting each other.  It's not like the existence of this big villain solves all their grievances with each other.

I also feel like having the human's conflict with the monster being what destroys the monster would contradict the "human conflict is meaningless" angle.


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## Ireth (Aug 7, 2013)

WooHooMan said:


> I'd go with that latter.  I think enemies teaming-up to fight a greater bad guy is a little, for lack of a better word, cliche.  It would also only be a temporary solution to their conflict.  Like once the big enemy is defeated, they'd just go right back to fighting each other.  It's not like the existence of this big villain solves all their grievances with each other.



My MC is all too aware of that fact. His whole subplot involves him pushing for a lasting alliance between his Court (the Unseelie), their rival Court (the Seelie), and the humans they normally hate, but have allied with to stop a greater threat. Sadly, not everybody he encounters is open to the idea, and it costs him a lot.


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## SmokeScribe98 (Aug 7, 2013)

Another thing I was wondering before I go into depth into the different cultures of the nations I want to have tomorrow is how much I combine traditional high fantasy with the dark realistic fantasy setting I'm going for. Should I feature the traditional elves, dwarves et cetera but write them differently or do I create more realistic co-existing races. For example I had an idea of like in our world we have humanity but with different ethnicities African-Caribbean, Asian, Caucasian etc. in my fantasy world I have different ethnicities of people like to the south I have soft skinned, dark haired Mediterranean-esque people and in the northern regions closest to the Great Volcano I have a race of people adapted to the ashy wastes left in the wake of the recent eruptions bearing grey skin?


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## WooHooMan (Aug 7, 2013)

I also pondered that not too long ago.  My advice is to remember that "elves and dwarves" are just names.  Try to make them as a people and a culture that would exist in your world and if the name "dwarf" suits them, then they can be called dwarves.  If a different name suits them, then call them by that name.

I also have dwarves in my story and I was trying to figure out how I can make them dwarf-ish without being generic.  Eventually, I just decided to not worry about how original or cliche they were.


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## ThinkerX (Aug 7, 2013)

> Another thing I was wondering before I go into depth into the different cultures of the nations I want to have tomorrow is how much I combine traditional high fantasy with the dark realistic fantasy setting I'm going for. Should I feature the traditional elves, dwarves et cetera but write them differently or do I create more realistic co-existing races. For example I had an idea of like in our world we have humanity but with different ethnicities African-Caribbean, Asian, Caucasian etc. in my fantasy world I have different ethnicities of people like to the south I have soft skinned, dark haired Mediterranean-esque people and in the northern regions closest to the Great Volcano I have a race of people adapted to the ashy wastes left in the wake of the recent eruptions bearing grey skin?



I have elves, dwarves, goblins, and a few other races.

Long ago, the 'Old Ones' came to my world, where local evolution had taken a hard stop after reaching the pond slime stage.  They 'terrafformed' the world into something livable, and after tens of thousands of years started importing members of other races.

They brought in entire tribes of humans and near humans from earth.  Some they abandoned. The Old Ones did some genetic tinkering and a lot of unethical experiments with the rest.

Some humans had their natural PSI ability increased by orders of magnitude - because a lot of the Old Ones tech was PSI based, and theywere looking for a sort of tech caste.  Dawn of wizardry.

The Old Ones also plumbed and poked into neighboring astral realms, eventually tricking a whole bunch of alien spirits into occupying 'vacant' material bodies - the dawn of the elves.  The elves see themselves as 'trapped' on this sphere, and have painfully learned they have to work their way back to their true home one mortal step at a time.  Being alien essences, they can do alien things - like sorcery, plus they have a bunch of other quirks.  Humans tend to avoid going anywhere near the elven domains, though there is a bit of quiet trading going on.

Dwarves...short homids who bred true.  Dwell in enclaves in human cities.  Not the stereotypical drunken warrior smiths, though they do have reputations as excellent fine craftsmen.

Goblins: green skinned aliens who superficially resemble humans (two legs, two arms, two eyes, that sort of thing).  Short green-grey skinned creatures.  Males outnumber females by a hundred to one or more, hence in many goblin societies, life for the males is one long competition for breeding rights, which means raiding without and assassination within.  (In many goblin cultures, murder isn't a crime).   The Old Ones 'enchanced' certain tribes of goblins, making them into taller, stronger, tougher orange or red skinned hobgoblins, a much more militant brood.

Rachasa are cat-men, vicious hybrids created by the Old Ones.  While a bit shorter than humans, they are far stronger, capable of leaping straight up a dozen feet or more, or more than two dozen feet horizontally.  They see themselves as master hunters and warriors, and everybody else as potential prey, though they do have a healthy fear of fire, going so far as to recruit non-rachasa as 'fire tenders'.  While they do engage in bartering now and again, and have a theoretical understanding of commerce, money, ect, to them it is a game - and not a particularly interesting one. 

These days, the Old Ones are mostly gone, and their former servants and subjects have gone wild...and Lovecraftian things are shambling behind realities curtain.


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## SmokeScribe98 (Aug 9, 2013)

Thanks for all the advice again guys, I've been busy with something recently but I should be able to create a timeline of events for this fantasy soon, which should be a much better guide than my map.


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## SmokeScribe98 (Aug 10, 2013)

I'm struggling a bit with coming up with stuff at the moment but for now, here's hopefully a little better polished map. Hopefully the rivers work now, please point out any that don't, thanks.

http://blackwaterarchives.wikispaces.com/


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## Ireth (Aug 10, 2013)

From what I can tell, most of your rivers seem to be flowing out of lakes and into the sea, with no equivalent flow to feed the lakes. Some rivers also simply peter off into nothing, which is odd. I don't see any rivers flowing down from the mountains, which is a logical starting place for them (and a good way to feed the lakes); you may want to make some. Hope that's helpful.


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## SmokeScribe98 (Aug 11, 2013)

Thanks for all the help again guys. I'm sorry to say I haven't made all that much progress so far but I hope that this can be an idea I work on bit by bit over time that you can all help add to and give advice on. Anyway, It's pretty late here in the U.K right now but I just finished writing a small description on the races of Ehvos, it's not that detailed so far but I think once I have a little bit of information on each topic I have planned out, religion, nations, magic et cetera I can come back to past topics and add to it with the newly created lore. Anyway, here it is and thank you once again. Please keep in mind that this is a very early draft and a number of the names are just placeholders so far (I've always been useless at naming things). 

Psyvala is the utopian star that sits perched atop the cascade of the godless endeavour, adrift the void realm, the one and only bastion of life in a realm of desolation. Ehvas, its western most continent is experiencing a political and religious rift while a dark, colossal threat older than time itself boils under the surface. 

*People:*

*Indigenous Species:*
*Humans: *
Humans are an intelligent, diplomatic and mighty species that hail from the Heartlands of the central isle. Unlike other species, their strength is not in their physical brawn, stature or ferocity but in their minds, Humans are known for winning their battles either through careful diplomacy or ingenious battle stratagems. The people of the heartlands are also known for their cultural and artistic talents and are responsible for the boom in arts, science and civility known as the Great Resurgence which occurred in late 3rd Ashfall. Roughly 90% of the continents sentient population consist of Humans, although Humans are divided through many different ethnicities, increasingly so with the rise of Archanthium. 

*Ethnicities of Humans:*
*Heartlanders:*
This race of the Heartlanders is often referred to as the “pure blooded” and is supposedly according to Archanthium scripture what the Gods intended for humanity to be before the traitorous races of the Emberspawn and the Halfmen led the Gods flock astray by worshiping false gods resulting in the Gods mutating them into a “sub human” form as punishment.

*Emberspawn: *
This race hails from the south of the western isle and is currently small in number. It is believed that the Bytharus Empire pushed them out from their homeland subsequently leading them to flee further north until they eventually settled below the towering northern peaks that bordered the western isle with the Wilds. At that time, the Emberspawn were simply less civilised Heartlanders that practiced dark magic and coveted a false god until they were pushed so far north by the Bytharus that by the time 3rd Ashfall came they were forced to seek refuge underground or in what ever other sanctuary they could find until the chaos above had finally ceased. Over the years, the Emberspawn began to adapt more and more to their new surroundings, their skin turned coal grey to camouflage in amongst the soot and ash and their hardships had encouraged them to have more faith in their “false god” than ever, according to Emberspawn belief, it was at this time that their God blessed them with their telepathic ability so that they may ensure each others safety during their testing.

Emberspawn culture still survives in the weathered brimstone temples of the ash wastes however their isolation from the rest of society has also led to their slavery, after the 3rd Ashfall Emberspawn tribes were picked off one by one by the new nations of Heartlanders and forced into the slave trade to serve as labourers. Their telepathic link remains however and they still share a close connection with their God. 

*Halfmen: *
Halfmen are the newest of the sentient races in Ehvas and are looked down upon by the majority of people as savage and barbarous. Halfmen came to be after the invasions of the Wildmen from the east when the new invaders intermingled with local humans in the eastern isle. Halfmen appear very similar to normal Heartlanders in appearance bar their coloured brownish tropical skin and taller height to both Heartlanders and Emberspawn. They do not possess the spear like arms of the Wildmen however but they are known to be aggressive and ferocious warriors which are perhaps what saves them from becoming victim to the slave trade like the Emberspawn. 

*Foreign Species: *
*Wildmen: *
Wildmen hail from the distant far eastern continent to which little is known about and arrived in Ehvas towards the beginning of 3rd Ashfall. This new alien race slaughtered what was left of the Bytharus Empire which was already weakened as a result of the Ashfall and settled in the warm sands of the eastern isle. This seafaring warrior race lacks the intellect of the human races but is equipped with ferocity rivalled by nobody else as well as a plethora of natural weapons in their own biology. The Wildmen possess a spear-like left arm which when used correctly can stab straight through a man, animalistic talons on the fingertips of their right arm and tough ramming horns as well as a speed that rivals any other sentient species. The Wildmen also have different sub races like humans, however in general Wildmen as a whole are much less developed than the other races, with little culture or civility, like many other religions and cults they seem to worship the Great Volcano but what drives this tribal people to pillage beyond a dark ambition to conquer is unknown. Wildmen like the Emberspawn are also known to possess a telepathic field although it is much less sophisticated than the Emberspawns and isn’t used as frequently.


*Sub-races of Wildmen*
*The Enlightened:*
The most sentient of the sub races, the enlightened are the leaders and troops at the front lines of Wildmen legions. While all Wildmen races communicate through a series of high frequency screeches, the Enlightened are the only race of Wildmen known to be able to speak verbally with each other in a language of their own. They are also most likely the only race to have interbred with the Human races resulting in the Halfmen. The Enlightened have also been rumoured to be able to communicate with humans using human tongue from time to time. 

*The Fledglings:*
The fledglings are the most common race of Wildmen and will follow The Enlightened in mass packs during battle, their weakness however is that they have very poor sight and so hunt and sense things via sound similar to bats. They also communicate with other Wildmen through high pitched screeches which are usually too high for humans to hear, usually.

*The Anvilborn: *
The Anvilborn are the least common of the Wildmen races and are rarely seen in the front lines of battle but instead craft Wildmen weapons, armour, tools and ships. The Anvilborn are unique in that unlike the other two races they possess a hammer-like left arm rather than a spear-like one better suited to crafting than combat. However if an Anvilborn proves to be more useful in combat than most other of his race than he can be sometimes used as a form of battering ram in warfare.


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## ThinkerX (Aug 11, 2013)

"Emberspawn' seem a bit like evil dwarves ('duagar') 

The 'wildmen' come across as a artificial or 'created' race.


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## SmokeScribe98 (Aug 12, 2013)

Hmm, I don't see how the Emberspawn seem like "evil dwarves", they don't share many characteristics with dwarves and they aren't a "evil" race as such. I can see what you mean about the Wildmen though, how do you think I could go about fixing that?


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## SmokeScribe98 (Aug 12, 2013)

Please if any of you have any suggestions, I would love to hear. I'm really stuck for what to do right now and the more I think about it the harder it gets. Once I get some feedback, I'll post all the backstory into a new thread.


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## ThinkerX (Aug 12, 2013)

> Hmm, I don't see how the Emberspawn seem like "evil dwarves", they don't share many characteristics with dwarves and they aren't a "evil" race as such.





> This race hails from the south of the western isle and is currently small in number. It is believed that the Bytharus Empire pushed them out from their homeland subsequently leading them to flee further north until they eventually settled below the towering northern peaks that bordered the western isle with the Wilds. At that time, the Emberspawn were simply less civilised Heartlanders that practiced dark magic and coveted a false god until they were pushed so far north by the Bytharus that by the time 3rd Ashfall came they were forced to seek refuge underground or in what ever other sanctuary they could find until the chaos above had finally ceased. Over the years, the Emberspawn began to adapt more and more to their new surroundings, their skin turned coal grey to camouflage in amongst the soot and ash and their hardships had encouraged them to have more faith in their “false god” than ever, according to Emberspawn belief, it was at this time that their God blessed them with their telepathic ability so that they may ensure each others safety during their testing.



Because AD&D is actually semi in line with the mythology here:

1) Appearance - both Emberspawn and Duagar have grey skin

2) In mythology dwarves/duagar had reputations for magic...like your Emberspawn.

3) In AD&D, duagar are all mentalists/psionists...like your Emberspawn.

4) Both dwell underground.

5) Also worth pointing out: in the actual mythology, dwarves were only slightly shorter than humans.  To an extent, this is reflected in AD&D.  So...is your average Emberspawn taller or shorter than average humans.

About all thats missing is the longer lifespan and the master craftsman angle.



> I can see what you mean about the Wildmen though, how do you think I could go about fixing that?



You don't.  One of the premises for your world is Lovecraftian things skulking around behind the curtains.  The wildmen are an example of what can happen when these utterly alien monstrosities decides to meddle directly.  One or more of them stepped in one day, found a race or tribe of human varients, and changed them into wildmen for incomprehensible reasons of its own.

I have something like this on my world:  the ancient aliens, through incomprehsible 'super science' created the race of rachasa cat-men as elite warriors/hunters from a blend of other species, some whose ancestors came from different planets.  When th ancient aliens vanished, the rachasa 'went wild'.  

Same way with goblins and hobgoblins.  The goblins were a humaniod race, brought to my world by the ancient aliens, along with humans and others.  The ancient aliens decided they needed a warrior caste, so they did a bit of genetic meddling, and turned some of the goblins into tougher, stronger, more disciplined hobgoblins.  

Thinking through possibilities like this is what adds depth to your world.  Speaking of which:

Assuming the Wildmen are the creation of some Lovecraftian monstrosity, are they still its subjects?  Did they revolt? If so, how many?  Does said monstrosity still take an interest in the wildmen?  Was said Lovecraftian entity somehow killed?


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## Caged Maiden (Aug 13, 2013)

Cool.  My current WIP is set in a parallel to 1576 Venice.  So I have a very Italian themed novel I'm writing.  I encourage you to do a lot of research into the actual politics of the period and see what inspiration strikes you.  I was inspired by venice first, because I am a costumer by trade, and have recently done a few Venetian dresses and the research papers for those garments just made me fall in love with that unique city.  Also, Venice was part monarchy (the doge), part oligarchy (the senate), and part democracy (the councils), so I found the political clime very interesting.  Much different from, say, England of the same period.  Another interesting social aspect of Renaissance Italy, was that money ruled the place.  The class boundaries were blurred, many merchants like the Medici, becoming stronger than nobility.  

So yeah, if you need inspiration, history is a great place to find it.


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## SmokeScribe98 (Aug 13, 2013)

Yes, the Renaissance in Italy particularly is something that has always interested me, particularly Florence and the Papal States. The activities of the Borgia family I find especially interesting. 

As for the Wildmen thinker, as I said earlier, their tribes like many other cultures worship the Great Volcano and they share a telepathic link between each other like the Emberspawn. Just how they came to be and if they still serve as subjects to the Great Beast is unknown but I'm sure if the Beast has need of them he can manipulate them to bend to his will rather easily. Like you say, questioning and thinking through possibilities really does help to add more depth so I would encourage anyone who has any questions they would like to voice, to voice them. Anyway, I put this little snippet of information up on the other thread, but I'll post it up here too, please tell me what you think:

*Nations: *

*Archanthium Dominion:*
The Archanthium Dominion was founded as a result of the collapse of the Bytharus Empire in the early years of 3rd Ashfall.  The Bytharus Empire encompassed most of Ehvas, stretching out from the scabrous south eastern coast to the towering cliffs that border the northern isle with the wild lands. After its collapse most of the continent fell into disarray forming their own small city states but out of the ruins of the previous empire came a new majesty seized by divine and holy right according to its founder Decimus Octavianus Blackwater who led his “holy” legions through the decadent streets of the former power, slaughtering the remnants and out of the ash and cinder of the previous civilisation forged a new utopia of unquestioned grandeur and power rivalling anything yet seen in Ehvas or indeed all of Psyvala. 

This new Empire consisted of towering golden ornate structures, rich illustrious garments, shining new technology and devastating progression in its military and industry partly thanks to the Great Resurgence in the Shattered states below. Despite all of Archanthiums criticisms, none question its power and finesse in intimidation, its military, thought control and propaganda. Decimus had anointed him and the loyal citizens of the new Dominion the “pure blooded”, the denizens of divinity and it’s this ideology and extreme xenophobia that makes the Dominion such an almighty foe to tackle.

 Its current Prophet Salyrn Blackwater continues this tradition, promoting jingoism, militarism, ultra nationalism and xenophobia throughout the masses of the brainwashed citizens of Archanthium. The nation while far mightier than any previous civilisations is not without its flaws; Archanthium is a militantly pseudo-religious society that preaches widespread institutionalised racism to the races of Emberspawn and Halfmen, hunting down tribes of Emberspawn and forcing them into slavery to keep the gears of the utopia moving and the society also proves especially cruel to the Halfmen which should according to Salyrn not even be allowed the gratification of assisting such a majesty and should instead be eliminated from all of existence via mass “purification”. 

Again, this is a work in progress and the names are mostly just placeholders for now. By the way, If you haven't already guessed I'm useless at names so if you have any suggestions for better names, please do say, it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.


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## Spider (Aug 18, 2013)

Sounds good so far. It seems like you put in a lot of effort to make this detailed. One thing I noticed though...



> Halfmen came to be after the invasions of the Wildmen from the east when the new invaders intermingled with local humans in the eastern isle.



As I recall from my basic knowledge of biology, a species can be defined as a group of animals that are able to mate and produce fertile offspring (correct me if I'm wrong). It seems like the Wildmen, on the other hand, are a different species than humans, so they wouldn't be able to intermingle with them.

As for names, do you want names that simply sound good, or names with meaning and purpose? If you're looking for the latter, you should note down the special attributes of each race to help you with creating a significant name. 
For example, the Emberspawn:
-Practice dark magic
-Are coal grey in color
-Live underground
-Are telepathic
The Emberspawn are also slaves, so they may be called other (nasty) names by the Heartlanders.


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## SmokeScribe98 (Aug 19, 2013)

I'm no master of biology either but from my understanding, two different species can not produce fertile offspring if they do not have the same number of chromosomes as the mate or do not possess similar genomes. Ligers however (a cross between a lion and a tiger) have been known to be able to produce offspring with tigers and lions however male ligers are mostly sterile with very few exceptions meaning ligers can not mate with each other. In the context of Wildmen and Halfmen, I guess that would mean they could only really mate with either Wildmen or the natives that originally settled in the Eastern isle. Well, guess I'll have to go into more detail about the natives, of course this is fantasy and I'm pretty sure hybrid species have been done in fantasy before, my mind comes to the Bretons in The Elder Scrolls Series, a race that came from mating between the races of elves and men, so I'm sure if I explain it well enough something like this could be allowed.

As for naming, I'll try and come up with some better names soon. But what I was really wondering is what you thought of my early work on the Dominion? Oh and thank you for commenting, it means a lot.


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## Spider (Aug 19, 2013)

SmokeScribe98 said:


> But what I was really wondering is what you thought of my early work on the Dominion?



It looks good to me. One thing I was wondering about was the 3rd Ashfall... did a volcano erupt? If so, where would Decimus Octavianus Blackwater get the resources to build his towering golden ornate structures?


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## SmokeScribe98 (Aug 19, 2013)

Ashfall marks eras in the history of Ehvas. So instead of 1st era, 2nd era, 3rd era, its 1st Ashfall, 2nd Ashfall, 3rd Ashfall. The supervolcano to the northeast has been known to erupt from time to time and when it does, such a cataclysmic event marks a new era in the continents history as most societies are destroyed in the chaos. As for were he got the resources, he built Archanthium from the ruins of the old Bytharus Empire, the foundations were set and no doubt an abundance of resources too. The Dominion was founded after a cataclysmic event, people were left ruined and clinging on to any life they could find, I imagine thought control is a lot easier when you offer something that nobody else has, civilisation. After that, the slave trade started and there is plenty of profit to be made there.


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## SmokeScribe98 (Aug 22, 2013)

Here's some of my initial work on the city state of Albicia. Please tell me what you think. 

*Albicia:*
Albicia is the south-eastern most state in the Gauntlet and is the most mercantile and maritime of the Shattered States, transporting goods and people across the continent. While Calcara may have the largest and most powerful land forces of the states, Albicia is widely known for its finesse and power in its Navy and trade. It serves as a hub for commerce across most of the continent and can win through commissary savvy what it can not win through naval intimidation and power. Despite the power Calcara holds religiously and militarily, Albicia is a state that politicians, nobles, kings and Emperors across Ehvas have their eyes set upon. 

The city of Albicia itself is situated along the end of the river that lengths the Gauntlet. As Albicia is the southern most state, its climate is hotter than most others in the Gauntlet. Although the climate is not quite as sweltering and desert-like as the Eastern Isle Albicia borders between the sun glazed yellow grass of most of the Shattered States to the north and the warm sands of the Eastern Isle in the dunes of the south.


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## Chad Lynch (Aug 23, 2013)

The idea of having a super-volcano repeatedly erupting over the course of history is a good one, unique.  A good backdrop.

A thing to keep in mind, for pre-industrial societies, resources mean first and foremost arable land. Not only do you need warm weather and enough water, but woods are _really_ hard to clear.  Even if you use fire, it's the devil's own time pulling out the stumps.  The Black forest wasn't just creepy and dark, it restricted the amount of farming the Germans could do. 

Also, it's much more than the initial profit when it comes to the slave trade.  Again, in pre-industrial times absolutely everything is made by hand and thus much more labor intensive, something that is easy for use in the here and now to forget.  Under good conditions one person on the farm might be able to support two and a half people.  A weaver working a loom might be able to make cloth for two or three.   It is because of this low level of output than nearly all ancient civilizations practiced slavery.  It wasn't because they were evil, it was because forced labor was the only way to produce enough surplus to enable a standard of living above subsistence.  Slavery only becomes economically nonviable when you have a large peasant class you are willing to grind down like slaves - see imperial China - or things like the cotton gin and steam engines come along.


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