# How can I use humor in a fantasy novel?



## Watcher (May 27, 2013)

My fantasy novel has the characteristics of an epic journey, it has a dark atmosphere, but I find it hard to introduce the element of humor into some scenes or present a humorous character. There is only one scene so far that has a funny side to it. Any piece of advice how to tackle the problem?


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## Nihal (May 27, 2013)

Why not some sarcasm and dark humor? It doesn't need to be exaggerated, only enough to make your readers chuckle here and there.

If you have a "jerk" type of character he's the perfect one to make witty remarks; sometimes even the hero can make some of them. As a reader I find those kind of comments more funny when they appear in otherwise serious scenes, when they're inappropriate and you wouldn't quite expect them. This behaviour is not so unbelievable at all–people sometimes rely on (dry) humor as a stress reliever.


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## Justin Cary (May 27, 2013)

I would not try to force humor into a story. The best jokes and humorous situations rise organically. A forced humor usually falls flat and may jolt the reader out of your story. Be patient, if the story is going to be humorous it will catch you by surprise and be the better for it.


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## Tom (May 27, 2013)

I must confess that I'm horrible at writing humor. I have a character in my WIP who I originally wrote in as comic relief, but I was so scared that she wouldn't be funny that I rewrote her as a serious character! Sometimes if you're not even trying to be funny something will strike your reader as hysterical. I have a wierd sense of humor and this happens with me all the time.

I think you should just let your characters do what they want and you'll get a few funny scenes here and there. I surprised myself by writing a humorous exchange between two characters. Just relax and have fun!


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## Addison (May 27, 2013)

Humor comes in many forms, it's not all spoken word it can also be action, either the cause or consequence of an action. Or it could be funny how one character reacts to a situation or another character with a straight face. 

But it's like Justin Cary said, humor comes organically. The funny parts could very well pop up in the story without you realizing it.


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## A. E. Lowan (May 27, 2013)

There is an old saying...

Comedy is tragedy... with timing.

So, yes, a dark book can have its humorous moments.  But, as the posters above have already stated, whatever you do, don't try to force it.  The funny will come on its own, or it won't.  Tell a good story, and no one will write in your review, "Loved the story, but it wasn't funny!"


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## Addison (May 27, 2013)

For a good humor reference I suggest "Abbot and Costello" movies, "Bob Hope" movies, "Who's Line is it Anyway", and "The Carol Burnette Show". 

As for humor in dark fantasy...I haven't read a lot of those. But the best advice I can give is to read dark fantasy and see where and how humor and levity comes up.


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## Feo Takahari (May 27, 2013)

Sometimes, all you need to do is take the most ridiculous things in your plot and say them with a straight face. I write in a very deadpan style, so I don't always know what will be my biggest laugh lines.

To give one example, I have a story that involves several men getting turned into women. This exchange probably isn't funny out of context, and I didn't realize it would be particularly funny in context, but plopped in the middle of a serious conversation, it got a reaction from a lot of readers:



Spoiler: Spoilered for risque



After about half a plate of roast chicken, Merritt felt ready to talk again. “Doesn’t this feel right to anyone else?” she asked.

Perrin made a show of checking for eavesdroppers. “What in the world do you mean?”

“Horace, I found those books you hide under your bed, the ones with the drawings of girls having sex with each other. Now that you look like a girl, you can get girls like that to go to bed with you.”


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## ecdavis (May 27, 2013)

The 'down time' or 'travelling time' when the characters are talking together, but no big epic drama is going on, is a good place for a bit of humor.   If they are sitting around a campfire, instead of just zipping over that and moving on to the next big thing, have them interact together.   I think it makes a story more interesting if you see a personal side, but more than just the 'dark past hinted at in his face' sort of thing.   I try to mix humor into my stories, but not to overdo it.   I have a Dwarf who is terrified of heights and he is teased by two other characters, one who is an Orc woman, but they are actually good friends and the interaction between them lightens the darkness of the scenes sometimes by showing a less than heroic, but human side to them.   

Personally, a character that is thrown into a story purely for comic relief really gets on my nerves.   Think of Jar-Jar Binks in the Phantom Menace, to use a movie example.   I don't think a character should be a buffoon all the time, though he may have something that can be used for comic relief at times, if he is balanced out by other non-comic traits.     

I thought Indiana Jones' fear of snakes was a good example (to use still one from a movie) of humorous elements.   Some of the Hobbits' fussiness in LOTR was another example, and what was neat about that was that they slowly lost much of it through the trilogy as they got used to the outside world.

So humor can even be used to show character growth.


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## Watcher (May 27, 2013)

I think you are right Justin Cary, I won't force it. It may come naturally as the story progresses. ( When I did my research in writing a Fantasy Novel some sites suggested I should lighten the dark atmosphere by introducing the element of humor or at least have one character who is funny - the joker / fool archetype, but maybe it won't be necessary.) I will follow your advice and not force humor into my story.


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## Penpilot (May 27, 2013)

As said above, don't force it. No every story has to have humor. No humor is better than bad humor. 

To me humor comes from situation and character. Most situations have a humorous angle to look at them from, but not all characters will see that humor. Part of humor is also context being able to set it up so the reader will understand why something is supposed to be funny and laugh. 

Here's a link to my post in another thread about humor. I think it's relevant to the discussion and maybe it will be useful. http://mythicscribes.com/forums/writing-questions/8130-humorous-scene.html#post108922


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## Watcher (May 27, 2013)

Thank you Addison! 

I used to watch "Whose Line is it Anyway" when I was in UK in the 90's , great show, great improvisations, hillarious stand up jokes.

I will read a dark fantasy novel and see how humor and levity comes up.


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## Watcher (May 27, 2013)

Thank you ecdavis!

I totally agree with you. Jar-Jar Binks was lame and the Phantom Menace would be just fine as a story without that character.

Yes. The Indiana Jones example is more or less what I had in mind. Maybe I could use the fear of one of my characters to create a humorous scene.

I tried to use one of my character's as a jester ( the fool archetype ) and the dialogue lines I used for him didn't work out so I deleted that page. 

I will go with the story flow and see if it comes naturally. And if the humor element is absent in my novel I won't mind cos it is a Dark Fantasy story ... I think no one will blame me for that. 

All I want to achieve is to make a good and intriguing story.


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## wordwalker (May 27, 2013)

One rule about humor, if the story isn't a comedy:

Never EVER make fun of the villain. The villain, antagonist, or similar is a big part of what's driving the story's conflict. A lot of comedies and kids' stories like to take cheap shots at the villain just to water down the story to the tone they want... but if you do that, it's hard to recapture the sense that the guy actually is dangerous and the story really has to happen. Don't risk it.


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## The Dark One (May 28, 2013)

Ask yourself this: Do you know, deep in your heart, that you are truly funny?

There is nothing more painful than a non-funny person trying to get laughs. If you are funny, you'll already know it and humour will seep effortlessly into your pages. If you have the slightest doubt, then that's a red flag to avoid humour like the plague.

If you really are funny, you won't have to try.

Don't try.


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## The Unseemly (May 28, 2013)

The Dark One stole that right out of my mouth.

However, I'm a humour/wit person myself (indeed, I'm [cough*attempting*cough] to write a comic fantasy), and if I'm to say anything: while The Dark One has a lot of truth in what (s)he's saying, there also comes the fact at who you aim the humour at. There's generic humour, I suppose, and that's the most difficult to "get-right" kind. It's really quite difficult to all people, of any gender, ethnicity, or age to laugh at the same thing.

I suppose this means, when writing humour, keep your audience in mind. Write a joke/comic passage that they'll understand. An obvious example is referencing. If you're going to reference Agent 007 (original series), don't expect all teenagers to get the point. 

And if you want to stretch yourself, go the extra step, do something that's difficult with humour: tell a morale while keeping it funny. This is something that, personally, I've found terrifyingly hard to do. But practice makes perfect. Even with humour.

So, I suppose: not everyone will find everything funny. Humour cannot ever be a serious matter. I mean, really:

Why so serious?


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## SeverinR (May 28, 2013)

There is humor in the Foxhole of combat, there is humor at funerals, there is humor in every stressful situation of life.
Its how the human mind releases tension.

Characters can be funny, situations can be funny, and the combonation can be funny. But if you force it it will ruin the scene, make it not as bad a situation as it seems, or belittle the emotions the reader is feeling.

The funny statements should not be in poor taste, unless the character is abnoxious of course. Or the character can miss the inappropriate nature of their comments.  Humor is a tightrope walk when dealing with dealing with the death of a favored character or member. But it can help the situation also.
Failing at humor in stressful times can make a character seem real too.


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## Feo Takahari (May 28, 2013)

wordwalker said:


> One rule about humor, if the story isn't a comedy:
> 
> Never EVER make fun of the villain. The villain, antagonist, or similar is a big part of what's driving the story's conflict. A lot of comedies and kids' stories like to take cheap shots at the villain just to water down the story to the tone they want... but if you do that, it's hard to recapture the sense that the guy actually is dangerous and the story really has to happen. Don't risk it.



I disagree with this one. A lack of dignity can show how little a villain has to lose. I'm thinking of _A Vampyre Story_, which has an antagonist who's literally pure evil--he's petty, lazy, and stupid, and there's a lot of humor revolving around that, but that doesn't make him any less ruthless. (To a lesser extent, this also applies to Kefka from FF6, and even the Joker.)

(This is one of what I see as three great uses for humiliating your characters. I'm considering doing an essay on it.)


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## A. E. Lowan (May 28, 2013)

Feo Takahari said:


> Sometimes, all you need to do is take the most ridiculous things in your plot and say them with a straight face. I write in a very deadpan style, so I don't always know what will be my biggest laugh lines.
> 
> To give one example, I have a story that involves several men getting turned into women. This exchange probably isn't funny out of context, and I didn't realize it would be particularly funny in context, but plopped in the middle of a serious conversation, it got a reaction from a lot of readers:
> 
> ...



Yes, my sense of humor can be a bit juvenile at times, but this made me laugh so loud the dog came in from the living room to see what mommy was doing.  Well done!


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## The Dark One (May 29, 2013)

wordwalker said:


> One rule about humor, if the story isn't a comedy:
> 
> Never EVER make fun of the villain. The villain, antagonist, or similar is a big part of what's driving the story's conflict. A lot of comedies and kids' stories like to take cheap shots at the villain just to water down the story to the tone they want... but if you do that, it's hard to recapture the sense that the guy actually is dangerous and the story really has to happen. Don't risk it.


I also disagree with this sentiment, although I'll guess it's more often correct than not. My problem is with the word 'never'.

The fact that the various characters in Trainspotting are always making jokes about Begbie behind his back does not diminish Begbie's fearsome reputation. If anything, you feel the characters' adrenalin-fuelled terror at the prospect of Begbie overhearing or finding out about their jokes, and how berserk he would go.

This both enhances Begbie's fear factor and makes the jokes funnier.

Only a master could pull this off though, and Irvine Welsh is certainly that.


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## The Dark One (May 29, 2013)

While we’re on the subject of humour (and I’ve probably posted about this elsewhere), I also have no problem making characters and situations funny, even in otherwise serious books. Just lucky I guess, but I was confronted with a difficult situation in my book THEM.

The story featured a performance by a stand-up comic, which meant I had to write a comic monologue. Normally, comedy is simple for me — probably because of the foibles I tend to give my characters and the testing situations I land them in — but a comic monologue is an entirely different matter. There is no dialogue to bounce off and no character whose peccadillos the reader has come to know who can be put in an adverse situation. It just has to be funny in ways alien to my creative mind.

On top of that, the monologue had to serve other purposes. It had to be relevant to the various subthemes and subtexts, and had to carry the story forward in some way.

My solution was ingenious, if I do say so myself. I’d agonised for some time over whether the monologue was funny. I’d edited, edited, crafted and recrafted, and still I wasn’t sure whether it would make people laugh. Then it finally hit me — it didn’t have to be funny. In fact, it was better if it was really obviously try-too-hard unfunny…on the condition…that the main character said so.

I had the main character interjecting his own thoughts throughout the performance absolutely bagging the unfunny comic. Suddenly the scene was funny. Even the monologue became genuinely funny when the MC was peevishly saying how crap it was.

The moral to my story is that anything can be saved. Anything can be good in the right context.


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