# Writing a fantasy novel with a female protagonist



## Adalind (Dec 28, 2015)

I’ve been thinking about writing a fantasy novel with a female protagonist for a while now. My protagonist would be a liar, a thief, a storyteller who travels around the world and gets in really big trouble. I envision her as a cross between Locke Lamora and Kvothe, only that the story gets darker, especially towards the end.

I’ve done some research on the internet though, and now I’m worried about whether this would be a good idea. In fact I’m slightly discouraged. I’m worried that men won’t read a novel with a female protagonist. I’ve also read that people expect to find romance in a fantasy novel with a female protagonist, especially if it is written by a woman.

There won’t be romance. I dislike reading romance, and I dislike writing it. There also won’t be a strong woman struggling against patriarchy and being told that women can’t do this or that. Such novels don’t appeal to me. There won’t be a woman trying to prove herself. There’ll just be a woman going on adventures. There’ll be some humour, and there’ll be some violence. There’ll also be a little bit of politics, and a lot of really exotic locations.

What do you think of this idea? If you are male, would you ever read a fantasy novel with a female protagonist?

Would a fantasy novel with a female protagonist ever stand a chance of being published, especially if said protagonist isn’t constantly thinking about having sex with (supernatural) men?

I've been thinking about how many fantasy novels with female protagonists I've read recently, and the number I came up with was astonishingly low. All my favourite fantasy novels have male protagonists ...

Anyway, what are your thoughts on this matter in general?


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## Demesnedenoir (Dec 28, 2015)

Well, love interests, flirtations, tend to be a must in publishing it seems, but romance? Gag me. I skim/skip romance/sex scenes unless there seems to be a real point. I'm a dude with no issue reading female protags. What you describe wouldn't bug me a bit, so long as the story and writing are good.

Publishers? It probably depends. But I doubt it would be an issue.


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## Svrtnsse (Dec 28, 2015)

Adalind said:


> There won’t be a woman trying to prove herself. There’ll just be a woman going on adventures.



This is the part that really sticks out to me, and which I really like. From what I gather, this is pretty rare, and it's something that could actually be a selling point to a lot of people.


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## Incanus (Dec 28, 2015)

I would have no problem reading something like this.  I'd like to see more of it.

But I have no idea about the publishing possibilities.  Hopefully, someone will do something like this that takes off, and then more will be expected/looked for.

My stories tend to be light on the love/sex/relationship side--thus I expect not to be widely read.  But I encourage you to try.  We might be rare, but we're not totally alone.


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## MineOwnKing (Dec 28, 2015)

Your idea can work and you're starting out asking all the right questions.

Figure out which target group you want to appeal to and then craft the story to their tastes.

A very good example would be the Splatter Elf books by Philip Overby.

He is a moderator on this site and has published a few short stories on Amazon.

One of his characters named Katzia, fits into the type of female protagonist you're thinking about.

I think men will always be curious as to what makes women tick, regardless of the subject matter.


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## T.Allen.Smith (Dec 28, 2015)

I could answer all your questions from my perspective, but don't think it'd do you any good. The only question you need to answer is if _YOU_ would enjoy reading that type of story.

If the answer is yes, there are surely others like you in the world who would also appreciate that premise, if well-executed. 

Honestly, put those troubling thoughts behind you. Write a story you'd like to read & make it the best story you can write. If you write it well, there will be an audience.


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## PaulineMRoss (Dec 28, 2015)

To be honest, once you start focusing on the potential audience for a story, it's already slipping out of your grasp. Write the book first, and don't think about anything beyond your own interest in the story, and the way the characters and plot develop. Then set it aside and write another. And, ideally, a third. At that point you can begin to consider adjusting for an audience.

On the more general point, there are plenty of female protagonists in fantasy these days, and romance isn't an essential part of the mix. As someone very wisely said upthread, if you write the book you want to read, you can be pretty sure that other people will want to read it, too.


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## Penpilot (Dec 28, 2015)

I suggest you don't worry about something like this. It doesn't matter if the character is male or female as long as they're interesting and the story is good.

To me, thinking along these lines is counter productive. Write the story you want to tell, and let everything else fall to the side.

If you're really concerned about guys not wanting a story with a female lead, I point you to a few of the biggest movies/books to come along in a while. Hunger games and Star Wars the Force Awakens. Both have awesome female leads and have done well for themselves.


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## Devor (Dec 28, 2015)

I'm not a little girl living in the 1950s, but I still find myself watching Cinderella from time to time.  If you don't have a clear target audience, you can always pound through those audience barriers with a higher quality story.  You're the writer - you're the artist - make it work if you want to.

That said, your protagonist is a big part of your target marketing, but it's not the end all, be all of it.  It's all about setting expectations and making the right promises to your readers.  If you have an FMC and you're not including romance, and you want the big action plots that tend to appeal more to guys, you just need to make that clear to your readers as early as possible.  Open with a James Bond-esque, blowing up a building type scene, for instance.

There can be a lot of value in understanding your target audience.  But, don't make the mistake of putting it ahead of your core competence - that is, that thing you want to do and can be the best at doing.  Figure out what you've got in your writing, and then look at your natural target audience, and then consider better ways to reach them.  But start with you.


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## WooHooMan (Dec 28, 2015)

Adalind said:


> What do you think of this idea? If you are male, would you ever read a fantasy novel with a female protagonist



As a man, I'll speak on behave of all men and say no.  There's no conceivable reason why a man would ever want to read a story staring a woman.  I mean, that's silly.  Would she just be making sammiches for 400 pages?

But seriously, I have been turned-off of books that have a woman as the protagonist but that is not, in any way, because I'm adverse to reading about women.  There's been a lot of instances where I find a fantasy story staring a woman that comes across as the writer saying "look at this cool *female* character!  I sure am progressive aren't I".



Adalind said:


> There also won’t be a strong woman struggling against patriarchy and being told that women can’t do this or that. Such novels don’t appeal to me. There won’t be a woman trying to prove herself.



Based on this, I think you'll be fine.

Also, does anyone else think the term "female protagonist" is kind of off?  Today, I've used the term "female" to describe a dog and the end of an extension chord.  I've rarely, if ever, use the term "female" when referring to a person.  I feel like that term is a little dehumanizing.  I'd prefer it if people just call them "woman characters".
I don't know, maybe that's just me.


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## Mythopoet (Dec 28, 2015)

Adalind said:


> What do you think of this idea? If you are male, would you ever read a fantasy novel with a female protagonist?



I'm not male, but I quizzed my husband on the subject and he told me that he isn't opposed to female protagonists. However, in his experience he has seldom enjoyed a book with a female protagonist written by a female author and so seldom takes a chance on them. Also, he notes that the more the marketing aspects of a book look like they are aimed toward women (title, cover, description, etc.) the less likely he is to pick it up. That said, the most recent example of a female protagonist he liked that he could think of was written by a woman, so honestly I think marketing is a big part of it. Publishers often go out of their way to target specific gender audiences and make others feel like the book isn't meant for them. 




Adalind said:


> Would a fantasy novel with a female protagonist ever stand a chance of being published, especially if said protagonist isn’t constantly thinking about having sex with (supernatural) men?



Yes, certainly. Plenty of novels with female protagonists are being published these days. 



Adalind said:


> I've been thinking about how many fantasy novels with female protagonists I've read recently, and the number I came up with was astonishingly low. All my favourite fantasy novels have male protagonists ...
> 
> Anyway, what are your thoughts on this matter in general?



MY favorite stories tend to have male protags too. THough I can name several with female protags. Honestly, I think female characters are harder to write well than male characters. Even as a woman I find myself tending to come up with male characters because it just feels easier and it's easier to drive a story forward with them. I feel like it is easier to understand men than it is to understand women. I don't like to contribute to stereotypes, but that's just my experience. 

Even so, I'm working on a story with a female protagonist now.


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## Demesnedenoir (Dec 28, 2015)

WooHooMan said:


> Also, does anyone else think the term "female protagonist" is kind of off?  Today, I've used the term "female" to describe a dog and the end of an extension chord.  I've rarely, if ever, use the term "female" when referring to a person.  I feel like that term is a little dehumanizing.  I'd prefer it if people just call them "woman characters".
> I don't know, maybe that's just me.



Actually, I think you are humanizing or at least sexualizing the outlet, hello Freud? heh heh. I've no issue with male or female, doesn't seem dehumanizing at all. Male and female are generic, sure, but effective communicating without indication of age.


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## Netardapope (Dec 29, 2015)

Adalind said:


> I’ve been thinking about writing a fantasy novel with a female protagonist for a while now. My protagonist would be a liar, a thief, a storyteller who travels around the world and gets in really big trouble. I envision her as a cross between Locke Lamora and Kvothe, only that the story gets darker, especially towards the end.
> 
> I’ve done some research on the internet though, and now I’m worried about whether this would be a good idea. In fact I’m slightly discouraged. I’m worried that men won’t read a novel with a female protagonist. I’ve also read that people expect to find romance in a fantasy novel with a female protagonist, especially if it is written by a woman.
> 
> ...


If anything, making a female character who simply goes on adventures is the best way to give a message about equality. The idea that female protagonist MUST struggle against a patriarchy always seemed hypocritical to me. If one wants to express equality, one should be able to make a regular story with a female protagonist, rather than always highlighting a less than subtle "fight the patriarchy" plotline.

 Not sure for what it counts but I think most fantasy readers nowadays are just looking for an adventure. Sure, it might not be as popular to do what you're doing but remember that people tend to be stupid. 

 Write the story you want. For the record, I'm male and probably younger than quite a few people in this forum and I just look for some good adventure. I'd read the story, so I say keep writing and don't let others control your creativity!

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk


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## arbiter117 (Dec 31, 2015)

Svrtnsse said:


> This is the part that really sticks out to me, and which I really like. From what I gather, this is pretty rare, and it's something that could actually be a selling point to a lot of people.


That would be my selling point!!! 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## Miskatonic (Dec 31, 2015)

I'm sure there's a market for it, especially for the "Mary Sue Girl Power" type character. Unfortunately there's not much substance to those.


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## glutton (Jan 1, 2016)

I wonder how much of the 'woman proving herself' element can be present before people begin to get annoyed. I don't have it as a central theme in my stories, but for example a girl might go to military school and be underestimated by her peers in the first chapter... but by the end of the chapter, everyone there accepts that she belongs and the rest of the book is about her fighting monsters, mercenaries, assassins, and evil masterminds while protecting her friends. 'Woman proving herself' isn't a primary focus in my books though since it would look ridiculous if everyone continually doubted girls who are basically portrayed as female Beowulfs or Conans lol.


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## glutton (Jan 1, 2016)

Miskatonic said:


> I'm sure there's a market for it, especially for the "Mary Sue Girl Power" type character. Unfortunately there's not much substance to those.



Gotta love a cute Mary Sue with a gigantic hammer smashing up Godzilla-sized monsters while fixing her makeup! (Last part added for humor XD)


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## arbiter117 (Jan 1, 2016)

glutton said:


> I wonder how much of the 'woman proving herself' element can be present before people begin to get annoyed. I don't have it as a central theme in my stories, but for example a girl might go to military school and be underestimated by her peers in the first chapter... but by the end of the chapter, everyone there accepts that she belongs and the rest of the book is about her fighting monsters, mercenaries, assassins, and evil masterminds while protecting her friends. 'Woman proving herself' isn't a primary focus in my books though since it would look ridiculous if everyone continually doubted girls who are basically portrayed as female Beowulfs or Conans lol.


I tend to get annoyed especially when women in fantasy worlds are often as powerful and capable as the men (DnD-type), so in those situations I get the feeling the author wanted to shove that plot down the readers' throats even when it makes absolutely no sense for the prejudice to exist.

If the "superior" people were a mix of men and women, I like it a lot more because it's less "men always look down on women" (which if taken too far will just make male readers put the book down because they aren't mysoginists and what man wants to be in the company of misandrists?) and more "people in general look down on this woman because..." Then I like to read and see how the character overcomes the flaw (or is it a flaw?) everyone hates in them, and how that character gets accepted by her peers or learns to ignore the prejudice and live her life.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## glutton (Jan 1, 2016)

arbiter117 said:


> I tend to get annoyed especially when women in fantasy worlds are often as powerful and capable as the men (DnD-type), so in those situations I get the feeling the author wanted to shove that plot down the readers' throats even when it makes absolutely no sense for the prejudice to exist.



In the case of my works there's usually very little magic and the female MCs (if they are not already established fighters at the start) are sometimes initially doubted in the context of being warriors because women are physically weaker than men on average and also smaller (small men are doubted in similar fashion as well). The doubt goes away quickly when they start kicking butt in front of their doubters though.

In a setting where magic is more relied upon and a primary source of personal combat ability then yes, it would make no sense for the prejudice to exist assuming men and women have equal access to magic. Mine tend to be non-magical melee fighter stories though with the magic users being rare and usually supporting characters or antagonists, and the 'woman being doubted' plot is generally only used if the female warrior character is a neophyte. The legendary slayer of giant monsters carrying around a 6' weapon probably won't be doubted as a warrior because she's female... unless it's a parody lol.


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## canvas (Jan 1, 2016)

Dropping in late, but I thought I would throw my two cents in.

I'm male, and I write a lot of female protagonists. I've never really thought much on the reason for that, other than the fact that I enjoy it, but if I had to make up a reason for using female protagonists, it would be this:

No reason at all. I don't know how much sense that makes, but people are people, and not every part of their journey, nor their identity, will rely at all on their gender. I write female protagonists, but I feel like focusing on the things that make them "different" or their "reason" for being a female character makes no sense. I like the idea of a more balanced roster of our favorite fantasy characters, but not the idea of gender for gender's sake. If it's going to be normal, it has to be treated as normal, not pointed out with a "would you look at that."

I've obviously gone off-topic here, but I think there is advice to be found in that. Some people will want to read about a female character's struggles, but the more worlds we create where gender struggles aren't an issue, the more normal such a concept becomes. Characters are characters, and people will read a good story. That is probably all you should worry about.


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## imagine123 (Jan 2, 2016)

WooHooMan said:


> As a man, I'll speak on behave of all men and say no.  There's no conceivable reason why a man would ever want to read a story staring a woman.  I mean, that's silly.  Would she just be making sammiches for 400 pages?



You'd have to be very descriptive of the sammich-making process to last 400 pages. Maybe change up the setting. Introduce conflict. You could make it a whole quest. A woman goes to make a sammich, but there's no ingredients. She must go to the store. But it's in the middle of the zombie apocalypse, and plus there's a bounty on her head because she pissed off one of the leaders of a roving band of marauders in her early sammich-making days (she can't be born with perfect sammich making skills, you want her to be a Mary Sue?)...Luckily, she's very handy with a butter knife and a variety of rotten condiments. Can she get to the grocery store and back before her husband comes back from his own weapons-scavenging (because of course he's doing MAN stuff)?

Serious-face, you're putting the cart before the horse. I call ditto on all the people who are saying don't worry about publishing if you haven't gotten the story written. I don't think about publishing at all.

Just get it written and worry about everything else later.


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## Russ (Jan 5, 2016)

I am late to the party because I was away on vacation, so I will keep my comments as short as I can manage.

Personally I have no problem reading female protagonists.  Whether or not there is a romantic element is fairly irrelevant to me as a reader, although I think characters who have emotional entanglements with other people are far more realistic and nuanced that the classic "lone wolf".  Even Elric had love interests 

But more importantly, if your target audience is agents and editors in the traditional publishing field, I can say with some certainty that there are lots of agents and acquiring editors who are looking to take on work with female protagonists for all the right reasons and would encourage you to pursue that line of writing.


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## tbgg (Jan 11, 2016)

I can't address a lot of your questions, but there's one thing I _can_ add: try giving your female protagonist a reason why she's not interested in romance, at least at the moment.  Right now, I'm working on my first novel, and in the first chapter, my heroine is looking for her fiance, who failed to show up for their rendezvous to elope.  He ends up being found dead, and for that and other reasons, she leaves home and her story arc begins. But at least through the course of _this_ novel, she's grieving and just isn't interested in romance with anyone.   I've also given her some other reasons to be skittish about romance in general.  It's a conflict I could possibly have her work through once she's spent some time grieving, but it would have to be in a later novel.  _If_ I get that far.

I can think of another novel I read where one of the two heroines took a special oath to a god when all of her clan was killed, and in exchange for awesome fighting powers (which she had to train into), she had to be wholly devoted to getting revenge and to the deity.  I can't remember the exact details of how it all worked now, but I seem to recall something like the deity taking away her desire for romance.  But I know that no romance was part of her character. 

So there are ways you can make 'no romance' part of the story if you don't enjoy writing it.


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## Ireth (Jan 11, 2016)

tbgg said:


> I can't address a lot of your questions, but there's one thing I _can_ add: try giving your female protagonist a reason why she's not interested in romance, at least at the moment.  Right now, I'm working on my first novel, and in the first chapter, my heroine is looking for her fiance, who failed to show up for their rendezvous to elope.  He ends up being found dead, and for that and other reasons, she leaves home and her story arc begins. But at least through the course of _this_ novel, she's grieving and just isn't interested in romance with anyone.   I've also given her some other reasons to be skittish about romance in general.  It's a conflict I could possibly have her work through once she's spent some time grieving, but it would have to be in a later novel.  _If_ I get that far.
> 
> I can think of another novel I read where one of the two heroines took a special oath to a god when all of her clan was killed, and in exchange for awesome fighting powers (which she had to train into), she had to be wholly devoted to getting revenge and to the deity.  I can't remember the exact details of how it all worked now, but I seem to recall something like the deity taking away her desire for romance.  But I know that no romance was part of her character.
> 
> So there are ways you can make 'no romance' part of the story if you don't enjoy writing it.



Why does she need a reason to not be interested in romance? Can't she just not have it as one of her priorities and let it not be mentioned? Or just make her aromantic and/or asexual and be done with it.


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## glutton (Jan 11, 2016)

Ireth said:


> Why does she need a reason to not be interested in romance? Can't she just not have it as one of her priorities and let it not be mentioned? Or just make her aromantic and/or asexual and be done with it.



My last novel has a female MC who doesn't have a romantic subplot and her interest or lack of interest in romance is never addressed. In my mind she is open to romance, but is too busy to actively go looking for partners and didn't meet anyone in the book who she is particularly taken with.


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## Legendary Sidekick (Jan 11, 2016)

You know how women have to be romantic about everything, are always gushing over guys and...

I'll stop before anyone thinks I'm serious. Nah, one of my pet peeves has always been that you can have an adventure with a bunch of guys in it (JRRT's _The Hobbit_), and they're out adventuring, so the story is an adventure and—as far as my then-barely-teenage mind could tell—there's no romance and no reason for the lack of romance mentioned. It's inherently obvious. The guys are busy adventuring.

BUT... throw in a lady (Peter Jackson's _The Hobbit_) and now there MUST be romance. Either she gets married and lives happily ever after, or she mourns Guy-Who-Dies, or she shacks up with every dwarf until Legolas [INSERT X-RATED SYNOPSIS HERE]... and before I drone on endlessly, point is, that's my pet peeve.



Ireth said:


> Why does she need a reason to not be interested in romance? Can't she just not have it as one of her priorities and let it not be mentioned?


I often ask myself the same question.


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## Chessie (Jan 11, 2016)

I think the reason romance is included in a good deal of stories with female protagonists is because #1) romance sells well. The argument could be made that we're emotional creatures but so are men and really, it all depends on the individual because there are men and women alike not interested in relationships. But yeah, sex sells.

You can totally have a good story without romance involved. It can be hinted to but never fleshed out (especially if  you're going for a series) or just never mentioned as some have said above. It's not a prerequisite.


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## Legendary Sidekick (Jan 11, 2016)

Chesterama said:


> The argument could be made that we're emotional creatures


I don't mean to pretend male and female differences don't exist. For example, I don't gripe about the pink and blue aisles at Toys"Я"Us. That makes shopping easier. My daughters don't want me to buy boy Legos.

I don't have anything against romance either, as long as the romance is enjoyable to read about. Sometimes it makes the characters more real, sometimes the "romance" makes me think the writer has a frat-boy mentality. (I won't point fingers. It's not like I haven't written romance and such that's likely turn off, unlikely to turn on.)


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## tbgg (Jan 12, 2016)

Ireth said:


> Why does she need a reason to not be interested in romance?



I suppose she doesn't, but 

a) the MC is of an age where romance tends to be important so talking about it is appropriate to the character 

b) later in the book, I'm having my MC make a female friend who IS more interested in romance and asks the MC whether she's interested in anyone.  The friend isn't the annoying type who talks ONLY about romance or is always trying to set the MC up with someone (which would make her someone the MC wouldn't WANT as a friend), and I think the MC should be able to explain herself.   Besides, it's an opportunity for them to have a meaningful conversation about what it's like to lose the person you love more than anyone else in the world.  Also, the MC's grief is going to be an internal conflict that slows down her progress toward her main goal, and the friend has to be in the know about it in order to help support the MC in it.


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## Darkfantasy (Jan 13, 2016)

It's the same for girls. Does having a dude main character stop them from reading? Do girls/woman not read The Hobbit because there are no females? I'm not sure. But to level the playing field you could give you lady a brother, or father, or best friend or lover just so young men who might struggle to relate to a young female can gravitate to the male. I must admit (and I don;t know if this is good or bad) but I always gravitate towards a female character. I'm quite young and don't relate much to men because I don't understand them. I have no brothers, no male friends, no boyfriends - just my dad who's bonkers lol and I'm surrounded by females. I feel more comfortable with women than men because I'm around them more and I'm one of them.


However, the other thing I want to talk about is the spunky, full of attitude hard bitch. I would rather read a novel with NO women than a woman like this because most women are not like this and I find them too manly. 
Women went from being the prize and the thing that humanised the male hero and took care of the women and children to suddenly being very butch and kick-butt. That's not a strong female. She is physically strong yes but that doesn't mean she is emotionally strong. And I think men have their weaknesses and strengths and so do women. And in general I think women's strengths are in their deep abilities to be compassionate, to be soft and gentle and nurturing while protecting at the same time. In some ways I think women can be more protective than men especially of young or vulnerable as our mothering instincts kick in.

Anyway those are my views and some may disagree but I hope I've helped you out anyway.

All the best x


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