# Wyverns over dragons?



## ApaCisare (Jul 29, 2017)

This is something that I've wondered about for a while now but only said aloud today. Why is it that Wyverns seem to be more popular than dragons in most popular media?
Wyverns, as I'm sure most of you are aware, differ from dragons in that they only have two hind legs, whereas dragons have four legs.
Smaug in the Hobbit movies, dragons in Skyrim and now seemingly in Game of Thrones are all called dragons, yet they all lack front legs.
Why do you guys think this is so?
I'm sure there are a couple of reasons, my main theory is that wyverns are more reminiscent of pterodactyls and thus more ancient or pre historic looking to whoever makes the final decision on the design that makes the final product.
But what are everyone else's thoughts?


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## CupofJoe (Jul 29, 2017)

I'm guessing that it is down to what looks right when they start making the model.
Four limbs looks okay [we understand how birds, mammal, reptiles... move].
Six limbs looks too busy and for most of the time for a thing like a dragon four of them are a waste of space.
And if there are  six limbs, where do the wings go? At the front? in the middle? Not at the rear surely?!?!
When we think of six legs we tend to think of Ants, Cockroaches, Grasshoppers and the like. Not really Dragon material...
From my copy of the book Smaug has six limbs [2 wings and 4 legs], and I have to admit that is what I thought I saw in the film... Just goes to show how much attention I was paying. 
I tend to think of scale too when it comes to Wyverns vs Dragons.
Wyverns are big but believably big, sort of like Megafauna. Dragons are fantastically Big, as big as you want...


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## Mythopoet (Jul 29, 2017)

WHAT? Smaug in The Hobbit movies only had 2 legs?? mnklW E ORP893y890 r0[Y8[QW36RN /

*excuses self before imminent explosion*


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## Holman (Jul 29, 2017)

So did the dragons in Reign of Fire.

To be honest, I had never considered the number of legs to be the difference between Dragons and Wyverns - I always thought that it was a size thing + wyverns can't breathe fire. Now I have no idea where any of that came from. Dragons have been used so much in history and come in so many different shapes and sizes that I didn't realise there was a standard Dragon!


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## psychotick (Jul 29, 2017)

Hi,

I always thought of wyverns as simply smaller, less powerful cousins to dragons. But having gone to the Wiki, I see that they do have two legs, in English heraldry, but it varies with others. I think you can make it up pretty much however you like.

Cheers, Greg.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Jul 29, 2017)

They're more realistic, but i have no idea why they might be more popular. 

^I'm more upset about why they made Smaug a vague brown color when he's described as red and gold in the books.


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## TheKillerBs (Jul 29, 2017)

I think the reason might be more practical. It's easier to animate four limbs than six.


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## Mythopoet (Jul 29, 2017)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> ^I'm more upset about why they made Smaug a vague brown color when he's described as red and gold in the books.



Yes, but I already knew about that and seethed long ago. This is new information. No, I have never watched any of The Hobbit films. And never will. Curse Peter Jackson and his offspring forever. 

On topic, are you sure wyvern are more prevalent than four footed dragons? How many pieces of media have you studied to ascertain this? Not meaning to be rude, but it doesn't really seem like the sort of assertion you can back up. And anyway, what does it matter? I'm sure most content creators who design dragons for their work design them in whatever way they find the most cool/scary/aesthetically pleasing.


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## TheCrystallineEntity (Jul 29, 2017)

^That's sad. I'll reflect the curse so that they only sleep for 100 years.


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## FifthView (Jul 29, 2017)

Chinese and Japanese dragons, despite being very long and wormlike and having no wings, are usually represented with four legs also.

I think it's down to what we see in nature. Four legs or two legs and two wings resembles what we see from most large non-sea animals and even birds.

For me, the four legs + wings variety looks and feels "fantasy," whereas the wyvern variety looks more natural even if it's also fantasy.


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## DeathtoTrite (Jul 30, 2017)

I definitely feel like its an aesthetic issue. Animators can use birds and bats as a basis for wyverns, but dragons don't have a real-life equivalent so the body shape is more mammalian, leading to weird wing positioning and size, as well as the legs looking awkward during flight.


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## Rkcapps (Jul 31, 2017)

May I be so bold? Whatever works in your story? Extend the boundary of what we know, just make it work.


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## Russ (Jul 31, 2017)

Oddly enough I have never adopted the nomenclature of UK heraldry when I think about mythical creatures.

The number of legs represented on a dragon in various forms of fiction likely has to do with taste and appearance.


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## Vadosity (Jul 31, 2017)

Personally I have only ever encountered the four legged kind of dragon in media and novels. 

Eragon - Four

Those Dragonheart movies - Four 

Smaug (original) - four

Dragons from the Dragon Jouster series - Four

Dragons from the Pern series - Four

How to Train Your Dragon - There were a number of four legged ones in this

Pete's Dragon (original) - Four

The Never Ending Story - Four

Mulan - Four

George and the Dragon (movie) - Four

Shrek - Four

Narnia - Four

His Majesties Dragon (terrible series BTW...) - four

The Rain Wild Chronicles - Four

Halfblood Chronicles - Four

A Game of Thrones - Four

Guards Guards - four

And those are just the ones that I remember. Really I have had little to nothing to do with Wyverns in fantasy.


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## ApaCisare (Aug 1, 2017)

Mythopoet said:


> On topic, are you sure wyvern are more prevalent than four footed dragons? How many pieces of media have you studied to ascertain this? Not meaning to be rude, but it doesn't really seem like the sort of assertion you can back up. And anyway, what does it matter? I'm sure most content creators who design dragons for their work design them in whatever way they find the most cool/scary/aesthetically pleasing.



I agree that whatever works best aesthetically is what a designer should go for. I didn't mean to state that wyverns were more popular as an objective fact, simply that it seemed to be more pre-eminent in the handful of media that I had mentioned above. Nevertheless, I find it interesting to consider what would make an artist or design team lean towardss vertain designs over anither.
(It seems that the Game of Thrones dragons are four-legged, I now realise the image I saw was in relation to book art for the series).


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## ApaCisare (Aug 1, 2017)

psychotick said:


> Hi,
> 
> I always thought of wyverns as simply smaller, less powerful cousins to dragons. But having gone to the Wiki, I see that they do have two legs, in English heraldry, but it varies with others. I think you can make it up pretty much however you like.
> 
> Cheers, Greg.



Yes, I think that I must have gotten the distinction from English heraldry, a distinction not commonly found in Europe. Apparently, they are also associated with the cold and ice according to Wikipedia. But I must agree that one should use them however you like!


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## Simpson17866 (Aug 7, 2017)

1) I don't see it as "wyverns versus dragons" so much as I see it as "wyvern dragons versus classic dragons" 

2) 6 limbs are for insects, reptiles have 4 limbs.

3) Wyvern dragons are awesome.

The Reign of Fire dragons were awesome as wyvern dragons, the Goblet of Fire Hungarian Horntail was awesome as a wyvern dragon, and Smaug was awesome as a wyvern dragon.

There are probably going to be some 6-limbed dragons in my own work, but my favorites are going to be the wyverns


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## Ban (Aug 7, 2017)

Easier to animate is what I think. If they have 4 legs than suddenly the animators must deal with 2 more limbs, which can be quite a lot of work.


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## TheCrystallineEntity (Aug 7, 2017)

The wyvern design might also be popular because of how predatory/prehistoric it looks compared to four legged dragons.


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## AngryMidget (Aug 10, 2017)

It could also be the fear factor it provides. Four legged dragons look more regal and royal, prompting a more peaceful vibe. When the wings are fused with the front legs as in wyverns, they take upon a more predatory and savage feel, adding to any terror


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## Steerpike (Aug 10, 2017)

Simpson17866 said:


> 2) 6 limbs are for insects, reptiles have 4 limbs.



Do you treat your dragons as reptiles (setting aside number of limbs)?


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## Simpson17866 (Aug 10, 2017)

Steerpike said:


> Do you treat your dragons as reptiles (setting aside number of limbs)?


 ... I need to explore this question further


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