# What are your religious views?



## Dante Sawyer

Let me start by saying that this thread is in no way meant to bash someone’s particular beliefs.  I’m a very open minded person, and I just want to know.  I was just once told that most fantasy authors/readers were predominately agnostic or atheist.  I was just wondering what the general consensus of this forum is.

I myself am an agnostic.  My father is atheist and my mother is a diehard Catholic.


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## Kelise

I'm nothing, really. One of my parents is agnostic and the other is an atheist. For about a year I went with a friend to his church - Revival Fellowship, but that was basically so I could have friends who didn't drink (as I don't) and I gave that up pretty quickly once they basically said it wasn't right for my friend and I to hang out so much. As a child I went to, uhh... a Catholic church on Sundays, I think, because my friend's family went and I was sometimes at their place during it. And I loved all the crafts they did. The Revival Fellowship I went to was just /too/ social for me after a while. There were meetings on Wednesdays and Fridays for an hour and a half, then two hours on Sundays, then 'youngies' did something on Saturdays for usually about four hours, and then there was usually some dinner or coffee meet during the week. And then band on Mondays if we had something coming up. I'm just not that social.

I don't really have any views for or against anything - I just don't find it interesting. I don't like to hear anyone bashing anyone's beliefs whether it be out in public or in the workplace and I'll usually speak up then, but other than that, I just stay right out of it.


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## Black Dragon

Interesting question.

In my experience, there's a pretty wide range of religious views among fantasy authors.  Yes, you will find atheists and agnostics, but I don't think that fantasy authors/readers "predominantly" fall into those categories.  There's a lot of religious diversity in the fantasy community.

There's been some discussion of the disproportionally large percentage of Mormon fantasy authors, which is a fascinating question in and of itself:

“Is It Something in the Water?” Why Mormons Write Science Fiction and Fantasy | Mormon Artist

There's also a significant number of Catholic and Jewish authors.  For some names, the following page is worth checking out:

Science Fiction/Fantasy Authors of Various Faiths

As for your original question, I'm Eastern Catholic.


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## sashamerideth

I am agnostic, I would like to think there is a God out there, but so far experiments have been inconclusive at best. There was an XKCD about experimental theology, believing that god or gods exist, but trying to find the boundaries, like when 1 stops being 1 for all practical purposes, and becomes 2


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## Ophiucha

I'm an atheist, raised by an atheist mother and an atheist father, who were in turn raised by atheists. You'd have to go back to my great-grandparents to find a theist in my direct bloodline. I grew up in a Roman Catholic area, but honestly, most of the people I knew were the sorts who couldn't even pull themselves out of bed on Christmas and Easter to go to Church, let alone every Sunday, and half of my friends weren't even baptised. I basically wasn't exposed to religion (I mean, I knew of religion - Christianity, at least - from classes and the news, but I didn't know much about what religion really was or the beliefs associated with it) until I was in high school.


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## Donny Bruso

My religious status is rather complicated. I was raised by a Seventh Day Adventist father, and attended church every Saturday for the better part of twenty years, in addition to going to a SDA elementary/high school. That kind of indoctrination is rather difficult to shake. My fundamental beliefs have altered somewhat since I became an adult and stopped attending church out of revulsion with the hypocrisy that runs rampant in pretty much any organized religion.

I have grown too cynical to accept things without proof, so the concept of blind faith 'because the bible tells me so' is right out the window. Yet on the other hand, I can't quite buy into the 'man evolved from the primordial soup' theory either.

Anyway, the short answer is, it's complicated, and I'm not 100% sure myself. Nothing like a good religious debate though. Makes all those brain cells start working trying to come up with logical reasons for stuff you can't explain.


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## Joe the Gnarled

It starts... Next thing you know we will be talking about politics. 

Seriously though, you cannot stereotype fantasy writers into one group or another.  As is true with all art forms, they come from many backgrounds and religions.  Dragon has already posted some good articles to back this up.

As for my religion... I was raised Roman Catholic and to make a long story short I have my own views and religion has become a private matter for me.


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## Caged Maiden

I've been pagan (not to be confused with Wiccan, because I am not Wiccan tho I hang with lots of them), and have been for 15 years.  One of the fun things about writing fantasy is that I can enter religion into my stories and therefore it can be a little of this and a little of that.... which is kinda how my life is.  
I use a lot of pagan or ancient customs/holidays in my books to sort of connect with the real world, but also let my reader know that it's really something different at the same time.


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## myrddin173

I am an Anglican, and I have gone to church almost every Sunday for most of my life.  I do believe in God, but I don't believe in forcing my beliefs on others, they have the right to their beliefs.

I also don't believe fantasy writers are predominantly one thing, they come from all walks of life.  Tolkien and Lewis were both Roman Catholic, _His Dark Materials'_ Phillip Pullman is an atheist, and _Mistborn's_ Brandon Sanderson is, if I remember correctly, LDS.


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## TWErvin2

I am a member of the United Methodist Church. I'm active in its ministry in our community and regularly attened the local United Methodist church.

As has been said, I think you'll find a spectrum of beliefs with respect to fantasy writers.


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## The Realm Wanderer

I'm a Jedi  Haha just kidding, though I think it's bloody awesome that a real life religion has come out of a science fiction film series.
For me, I guess I'm an atheist. I just can't willingly let myself put all my beliefs into something that can never and will never be proven, especially since there is scientific evidence for such things that are told to be work of a god/s, such as the creation of man...Evolution all the way!!
However I have absolutely no issue with anyone's views on religion. To each his own. In fact I applaude those who are truly dedicated to their religion. It's kind of inspiring to see so much faith from people.
But yeah, science has taken away any chance for me to believe in an all powerful being. Santa on the other hand; don't anyone dare say he's not real


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## Map the Dragon

The Realm Wanderer said:


> I'm a Jedi  Haha just kidding, though I think it's bloody awesome that a real life religion has come out of a science fiction film series.



I thought this is how all religion started???????


I'm Buddhist by philosophy, atheist/agnostic by practice. I think I'll go with Buddnostist


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## Telcontar

Brought up in a Catholic family. I myself am anywhere from atheist to some flavor of deist depending on the day. Since I decided that I don't buy into organized religion, though, I've found myself more and more fascinated by studying it.


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## Helbrecht

Moving away from my immediate family, my clan is devoutly Roman Catholic. My maternal grandmother used to take me to church every Sunday and I used to like reading my Children's Bible, but in retrospect I don't think I ever really took what I was reading and hearing as the absolute truth. Conversely, I tend to put my trust in scientific explanations of existence and their backbones of verifiable evidence, but I think it's important to remember that things like evolution and the Big Bang are called "theories" for a reason.

My early exposure to religion might have inspired my interest in theology, but it's inspired little else beyond that. Excluding weddings, christenings and funerals, I'm an agnostic atheist. As far as I'm concerned, this universe is godless until proven otherwise.


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## Garren Jacobsen

I am a Mormon though often times not what the sterotype suggests. Though I am, to use the Mormon slang, active in the Church and believe the Doctrine. I am not so dogmatic as to assume only Mormons will make it. I like to take the wait and see approach.  I will probably be surpised.


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## Kate

Map the Dragon said:


> I'm Buddhist by philosophy, atheist/agnostic by practice. I think I'll go with Buddnostist



I'm going to steal that line! 

I have strong spiritual beliefs and practices, but nothing officially religious.


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## Map the Dragon

Buddnostists don't steal. So I'll just let you have it !  



Kate said:


> I'm going to steal that line!
> 
> I have strong spiritual beliefs and practices, but nothing officially religious.


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## Dante Sawyer

Well, thanks to all who have replied.
I guess the person who originally told me the genre is mostly agnostic or atheist wasn't entirely correct. Still thanks for the input.


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## JustSpiffy

I'm an atheist, and if you're an agnostic, you're an atheist too. Agnosticism falls under the category of non-belief, which is also known as atheism. Also, most people misconstrue agnostic to mean a person who says they don't know, but what it actually means to be an agnostic is to say that it's impossible to know, which is different- if only subtlety.

I've heard that atheist has become somewhat of a dirty word in America, due to some particular Christian churches demonizing it, maybe that's why people are so reluctant to self-identify as one? I met an America lady from the buckle of the bible belt once, she was staying in our house in new Zealand, and she told me, “I don’t want to think of you as an atheist. You’re too nice” :/


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## TWErvin2

JustSpiffy said:


> I met an America lady from the buckle of the bible belt once, she was staying in our house in new Zealand, and she told me, “I don’t want to think of you as an atheist. You’re too nice” :/


 
Take it as the complement that it was meant to be. I strongly suspect she liked you and probably deep down in her heart was saddened by the choice you've made to turn away from what she believes leads to a positive outcome when life ends. 
Free will is like that.


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## Joe the Gnarled

TWErvin2 said:


> Take it as the complement that it was meant to be. I strongly suspect she liked you and probably deep down in her heart was saddened by the choice you've made to turn away from what she believes leads to a positive outcome when life ends.
> Free will is like that.



As someone who was raised in the bible belt I can tell you that that was defiantly a compliment.  I do not want to offend anyone here... but... sometimes they do not understand how the words that come out of their mouths will be taken (or they do and do not care).  For the most part they are good people, just a little close minded when it comes to religion.


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## JustSpiffy

TWErvin2 said:


> Take it as the complement that it was meant to be. I strongly suspect she liked you and probably deep down in her heart was saddened by the choice you've made to turn away from what she believes leads to a positive outcome when life ends.
> Free will is like that.



I actually converted her into an agnostic by the time she left; she was one of those cultural Christians, Christian just because everyone around her was, and she had never questioned it. I think she was a little surprised that I wasn't some immoral, evil person who ate babies for breakfast too. xD


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## TWErvin2

JustSpiffy said:


> I actually converted her into an agnostic by the time she left; she was one of those cultural Christians, Christian just because everyone around her was, and she had never questioned it. I think she was a little surprised that I wasn't some immoral, evil person who ate babies for breakfast too. xD


 
Which is not necessarily a good thing as encouraging her along a path away from faith, even if it wasn't yet strong--where might that leave the status of her soul upon the end of her earthly life? Of course, questioning is nothing new to Christianity, and I strongly suspect that upon return to her home her questions will be answered. If not, it's all about free will.


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## Black Gate of Mordor

I'm athiest, and I go to a Christian Scientist school. Only because it's a really good school, and they accept all beliefs.

A note on Christian Science - it's basically a 'modern' approach to the bible and stuff (I use quotations because the book on Christian Science was written in the 30s or something). They attempt to explain that most scientific principles were already in the Bible. I still don't believe what they say though.


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## Kaellpae

I was raised Christian, but it never really stuck. I keep an open mind to all religions, yet I choose not to participate in any of it. I'd rather not be classified as anything, just human, hearing agnostic or atheist makes it seem like I have an opinion on other people's views. If I choose not to be classified by me, then I feel I can be a lot more accepting to those around me.


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## JustSpiffy

TWErvin2 said:


> Which is not necessarily a good thing as encouraging her along a path away from faith, even if it wasn't yet strong--where might that leave the status of her soul upon the end of her earthly life? Of course, questioning is nothing new to Christianity, and I strongly suspect that upon return to her home her questions will be answered. If not, it's all about free will.




It's a good thing for me, considering that I don't believe in Christianity. It may be a bad thing for people who do. I didn't exactly encourage her though, my Mum and me were just having a conversation about religion, politics and a number of other things, like we usually do, and she just joined in.

But yeah, I don't believe she has a soul, so that should answer that for you. Also, I was in touch with her a year or so after she went back to America, she stayed an agnostic at least for that period of time. And you can probably accept that there's some answers that Christianity can never offer it's believers, because the majority of it is about accepting it on faith.


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## JustSpiffy

Kaellpae said:


> I was raised Christian, but it never really stuck. I keep an open mind to all religions, yet I choose not to participate in any of it. I'd rather not be classified as anything, just human, hearing agnostic or atheist makes it seem like I have an opinion on other people's views. If I choose not to be classified by me, then I feel I can be a lot more accepting to those around me.



Technically speaking you'd fall under the catorgory of weak atheist. Meaning you don't hold a belief either way. I'm in the same catorgory but I have strong opinions about religion.


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## JustSpiffy

Black Gate of Mordor said:


> I'm athiest, and I go to a Christian Scientist school. Only because it's a really good school, and they accept all beliefs.
> 
> A note on Christian Science - it's basically a 'modern' approach to the bible and stuff (I use quotations because the book on Christian Science was written in the 30s or something). They attempt to explain that most scientific principles were already in the Bible. I still don't believe what they say though.



Yeah, I've heard a few of those claims, not only from Christians but from Muslims too. All of them are clearly just mental gymnastics by believers. Having faith in something usually means you start with the asumption, "My beliefs are true", so anything that goes against it must be automatically wrong, and anything that goes for it is often accepted with very little if any critical thinking.

I think that's one of the dangers of faith, luckily we have the development of secular society to temper some of the more extreme effects this has, otherwise people would continue to justify some rather terrible things because, "I have faith that it's true!"... We do still grow under the influence of faith, it's just that growth is stunted very severely.


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## Kaellpae

JustSpiffy said:


> Technically speaking you'd fall under the catorgory of weak atheist. Meaning you don't hold a belief either way. I'm in the same catorgory but I have strong opinions about religion.



Since I was raised Christian, at least I'd know the signs before I went to hell. I'd be more than happy to just cease to exist after death.


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## TWErvin2

JustSpiffy said:


> Yeah, I've heard a few of those claims, not only from Christians but from Muslims too. All of them are clearly just mental gymnastics by believers. Having faith in something usually means you start with the asumption, "My beliefs are true", so anything that goes against it must be automatically wrong, and anything that goes for it is often accepted with very little if any critical thinking.
> 
> I think that's one of the dangers of faith, luckily we have the development of secular society to temper some of the more extreme effects this has, otherwise people would continue to justify some rather terrible things because, "I have faith that it's true!"... We do still grow under the influence of faith, it's just that growth is stunted very severely.


 
Could you clarify what you mean by those of faith being very serverely stunted in their growth? And what mental gymnastics would you be talking about specifically?


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## sashamerideth

TWErvin2 said:
			
		

> Could you clarify what you mean by those of faith being very serverely stunted in their growth? And what mental gymnastics would you be talking about specifically?



This is what I was afraid of. There have been some great discoveries by men and women of religious beliefs, and the same for those without. It is not religion that makes people stunted, it is,among others, the rejection of critical thinking that stunts. Atheist conspiracy theorists are just as bad as young-earth creationists in this regard.


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## Ravana

I am the Duly Elected Messiah of the Church of the Carnivorous Eggplant. (Seriously. I really am. Don't ask.) In keeping with my personal views of non-proselytizing, however, I decline to say whether or not the CotCE's views represent my own… or vice versa. I'm pretty sure my job description said they were optional.…


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## Telcontar

I'm seeing a theme. 

Also, I'll add that I often think about taking up the title of Pastafarian.


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## Black Dragon

sashamerideth said:


> There have been some great discoveries by men and women of religious beliefs, and the same for those without. It is not religion that makes people stunted, it is,among others, the rejection of critical thinking that stunts. Atheist conspiracy theorists are just as bad as young-earth creationists in this regard.



Well said.

Some great artists actually drew inspiration from their faith.  J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis would fall into that category.

I've seen both sides of religion.  At it's worst, it can be a force of oppression and even death.  At it's best, it can inspire humans to do truly remarkable things.


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## Garren Jacobsen

Black Dragon you grought up something interesting to me. That is, as you say, "[religion] At it's worst, it can be a force of oppression and even death. At it's best, it can inspire humans to do truly remarkable things." What I like to talk about though isn't this true of humanity in general? I mean look at the secularism of science and the amzing things that it has brought to the world. Yet also look at the secularism found in the Communist parties of Russia and China and see the death and destruction they wrought.  

I would like to hear your opinions as to why this is on both the religious and secular sides of the spectrum. For me it is nothing more than power. For an example of this one could look to Hitler who used both religion and atheism as a means of acquiring power. I would just like to know your thoughts and others on the subject. 

As an side I ask this for a somewhat selfish reason to assist me in reasoning out and then writing out this concept for a novel. I have found for the best way to develop ideas is therough the adversarial method.


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## Ophiucha

Religion is just one of the many things that are part of your culture and upbringing, and though they may dictate the specifics of how you enact your rule of tyranny, scientific intellect, artistic talent, etc., ultimately you would do it anyway. If Stalin were a dedicated Orthodox Christian, for instance, I don't think he _wouldn't_ have been a dictator. Maybe not a communist dictator, as communism is generally pretty secular (but then, I suppose that was greatly in part due to Stalin, so who knows how it could have been), but perhaps he would have become a more fascist dictator. Him and Hitler could have been buds. Similarly, I doubt a Christian scientist is going to be the one who tries to scientifically disprove God, but he may still find a more effective cure for cancer. It's not religion that dictates this sort of thing. Homeland, too. Katsushika Hokusai grew up in a time when Japan was relatively isolated and knew little of other paintings, so his work is influenced by the Japanese landscape and Japanese artwork. I don't think that if he were born in China, and could travel the world or see art from Europe, that he wouldn't have been an artist, but how and what he drew may have been quite different.


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## myrddin173

Ophiucha said:


> as communism is generally pretty secular



I think that's a bit of a understatement.  Communism is as secular as it is possible to be.  There is a Marxist quote "Religion is the opium of the masses," basically the Bourgeois (the rich people) use the "church" to make the Proletariats (the poor people) more accepting of their situation (poverty).  In communist revolutions the church is destroyed as a result most communists are atheist.  Which is the reason why a country like Iran, with its strong religious base, would never become communist.

Other than that I have to agree with Ophiucha, religion (or the absence of) is merely an influence on people.  It does not make them do things, just affects how they will do them.


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## Ophiucha

myrddin173 said:


> I think that's a bit of a understatement.  Communism is as secular as it is possible to be.  There is a Marxist quote "Religion is the opium of the masses," basically the Bourgeois (the rich people) use the "church" to make the Proletariats (the poor people) more accepting of their situation (poverty).  In communist revolutions the church is destroyed as a result most communists are atheist.  Which is the reason why a country like Iran, with its strong religious base, would never become communist.


Well, it's hardly like communist leaders are known for sticking to Marx. Also, there is this Christian communism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.


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## Joe the Gnarled

Ophiucha said:


> Well, it's hardly like communist leaders are known for sticking to Marx.


Which is why it does not work.  If people were capable of doing this then Communism would work... unfortunately people are imperfect and therefore we will never have a "perfect form of government".


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## Garren Jacobsen

Joe I would have to disagree with you that Communism in its Marxist form would work for a one major reason. That reason is that according to Marx the redistribution of wealth must be done by a governmental dictatorial body. This body would in fact have all the governing power. Man kind above all else desire power. Whether it is over ourselves or others we mostly want power in some shape and form. Therefore by giving absolute power to a bunch of people will result only in having communism exist in its transtionary state and never go on to be the promised utopia. The flaw is within the Marxist system.


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## Black Dragon

Brian,

I think that you hit the nail on the head: the problem is power.  Power has the potential to corrupt almost anyone.  Because religion can be manipulated to control people, there is real potential for power hungry individuals to abuse trust.

The corrupting influence of power is always worth exploring in a fantasy setting.  Tolkien was the master of this.  Gandalf, a truly virtuous soul, knew that the power offered by the Precious could turn even himself into a force for evil.


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## myrddin173

It is important to remember the old addage "Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely."


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## Helbrecht

Joe the Gnarled said:


> Which is why it does not work.  If people were capable of doing this then Communism would work... unfortunately people are imperfect and therefore we will never have a "perfect form of government".



I'm from about as far-left a background as you can get (my mum's a trade union representative) and I used to think this myself, but I've found that to argue that, essentially, "we're not good enough for communism" is ludicrous. Communism is a wonderful ideology _in theory_ and _theoretically_ offers a solution to most of society's problems, but it doesn't go much further than theory. If anything, I would instead contend that communism isn't good enough for us.

Anyway, we're digressing a little, aren't we?  I suppose it was inevitable that any prolonged discussion of religion - something warned against in our rules, I believe - would eventually lead to a discussion of that other taboo topic, politics. Anyway, back on topic:

*deep breath*

I think both pure religious faith and pure secular reason are powerful motivating factors. But I also think history proves that one isn't really better than the other - instead,  it's a matter of how motivated the person is and exactly who it is being motivated. People who help people and people who kill people for whatever reason, religious or secular, are probably just looking for a reason to do so anyway.

I do the odd shift at a local charity shop and the people there, working unpaid for the benefit of others, are roughly evenly split between religious types and secular humanists - not that it's easy to tell them apart. For all the religiously-motivated humanitarian groups, we still have organisations like Atheists Giving Aid performing a valuable service in disaster-stricken areas. But so many crusades and jihads have been waged throughout history that atrocities committed for entirely secular reasons - and by this I mean something that runs directly in opposition to religion, which seems to be what we're talking about - seem few and far between by comparison. 

To be fair, atrocities motivated by a desire for secularism have only really occurred in the past 220 years or so, starting with during the French Revolution, but I think the damage done in secular atrocities is still easily on par with that of religious atrocities. However, this just brings me to my main point - whatever things are being done, while they may be portrayed as having an entirely religious/anti-religious cause, tend to be means towards an ultimately irreligious political end. 

The failed Dechristianisation of France during the Revolution mainly wasn't people deciding that they just didn't like religion. Well, it kind of was, but nevermind that! The _reason_ they didn't like the Church was because of the political influence it held over the people, and that was what they were trying to eliminate.. Likewise, the early Crusades were as much about offering assistance to the struggling Byzantine Empire and conquering territory for the powers of Europe as they were about reclaiming the Holy Land from the beastly infidel. Even modern religious extremists tend to be working towards secular ends, so far as I can see. I would wager that many modern Islamic fundamentalist militants care more immediately about fighting perceived Western dominance than they do about doing Allah's will. 

I don't think religious people motivated to act by religious reasons are often doing it for the cause of religion. Obviously missionaries etc. would be exempt from this little notion of mine but I think it still applies widely. Aid workers for Christian charities aren't doing it to curry favour with the Big Man, they're doing it because they want to _help people_. Just like all the atheist humanitarians at the same disaster site do. Do their beliefs really come into the equation? 
*
TL;DR I think religion and atheism are as good and as bad as each other in most of the same ways. Also they're used as reasons to do things more often than they actually are the reason. What a person commits in an ideology's name is indicative of the general moral character of the person, not that of the ideology.*

Okay, that post turned out to be much longer than it was intended. If anyone wants to pick my argument apart, they're more than welcome to.

EDIT: Sorry for not addressing your points, Brian, Black Dragon and myrddin; I didn't see that you'd posted while I was writing this. Took me long enough as well. xD


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## Fnord

Just a plain ol' atheist.


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## myrddin173

Ophiucha said:


> If Stalin were a dedicated Orthodox Christian, for instance, I don't think he _wouldn't_ have been a dictator.



I just found out this curious little fact.  Turns out Stalin trained to be come a priest for five years before turning to Marxism.

Joseph Stalin trained to be a priest for five years. - OMG Facts - Your Mind. Blown.


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## Fnord

I don't think Communism/Marxism is even a good idea in theory.  

Religious devotion to statist central planners ends up with the same effect.


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## Joe the Gnarled

You know... I was thinking about this thread last night and I just have to say something.  I am so proud of all us (myself included) boys and girls.  I have seen something like this get way (under exaggeration) out of hand on other open online forums.  Bravo to Mythic Scribes!

Ok, continue discussion.


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## sashamerideth

Joe the Gnarled said:
			
		

> You know... I was thinking about this thread last night and I just have to say something.  I am so proud of all us (myself included) boys and girls.  I have seen something like this get way (under exaggeration) out of hand on other open online forums.  Bravo to Mythic Scribes!
> 
> Ok, continue discussion.



Why do I feel the urge to say something intolerant and highly inflammatory?


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## Joe the Gnarled

sashamerideth said:


> Why do I feel the urge to say something intolerant and highly inflammatory?



Don't do it Sasha!


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## Dante Sawyer

Joe the Gnarled said:


> You know... I was thinking about this thread last night and I just have to say something.  I am so proud of all us (myself included) boys and girls.  I have seen something like this get way (under exaggeration) out of hand on other open online forums.  Bravo to Mythic Scribes!
> 
> Ok, continue discussion.


I agree man. I'm very happy this thread that I posted didn't turn out to just be a bunch of people yelling at one another over various religous viewpoints.
Thanks to everyone here at Mythic!


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## Jenna St. Hilaire

It's been fun to read through this and see what you all think and believe. I'm Catholic. 

I'd never before heard that most fantasy authors are atheists or agnostic, but that's fascinating if true, especially as I'd have guessed the opposite. Most of my acquaintance has been with the religious: Tolkien (Catholic), Lewis and Jordan (Anglican), Sanderson (LDS--as is SF author Orson Scott Card and YA fantasy author Shannon Hale), L'Engle (Anglican)... even Rowling attends the Church of Scotland. (Pardon me for repeating a few people here.) Who are some good atheist or agnostic authors?

Though I do consider myself very religious, I've wrestled a lot with agnostic questions, and have found reading and writing fantasy to be a great way to explore those ideas. It also helps me believe, though naturally that's not everyone's experience. 

Ditto the props to everyone for not turning this into a flame war! I continue to be impressed by this community.


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## Ophiucha

@Jenna,

Let's see. Philip Pullman is basically the atheist C.S. Lewis. Poul Anderson (Three Hearts and Three Lions) is generally cited as agnostic. Arthur C. Clarke was an atheist. China Mieville is an atheist. George R.R. Martin generally calls himself an atheist. Terry Pratchett is, or was, an atheist. Not sure if he still is, but when he wrote most of his books he was, which is most relevant to the conversation. H.P. Lovecraft is generally regarded as an atheist, as well. And science fiction, our brother in arms, has more than it's fair share of atheist writers: Douglas Adams, Kurt Vonnegut, H.G. Wells, hell even _Ayn Rand _was an atheist.


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## TWErvin2

Below is a link to a pretty extensive list based on interviews and what authors have written/said about themselves with respect to their faith.

It does contradict Ophiucha's list in at least one place.

Science Fiction/Fantasy Authors of Various Faiths


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## Ophiucha

TWErvin2 said:


> It does contradict Ophiucha's list in at least one place.
> 
> Science Fiction/Fantasy Authors of Various Faiths


Not really, all of the ones that it says otherwise on goes further into detail. Their page on Douglas Adams specifies that he was _raised_ Anglican, but became an atheist. On H.P. Lovecraft, "As an adult writer he identified himself as an atheist." And on Ayn Rand, she's listed as an objectivist, which is by absolutely no stretch of the imagination a religion, but rather a political philosophy that is generally tied with atheism. On that note, I imagine Terry Goodkind is an atheist, both because he is an Objectivist and because his books seem a bit anti-religion.


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## TWErvin2

Ophiucha said:


> Not really, all of the ones that it says otherwise on goes further into detail. Their page on Douglas Adams specifies that he was _raised_ Anglican, but became an atheist.



Works for me. 

It appears the site was created in 1999 and hasn't been updated in the last 6 or so years. So especially if someone listed has openly turned away from faith, it may be inaccurate, just has if someone who was not listed changed their mind in favor of faith.


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## Jenna St. Hilaire

Thanks, TWErvin2 and Ophiucha! I should've remembered China Mieville; his _Un Lun Dun_ was an excellent book and I'd certainly like to read some of his adult fiction eventually. Lovecraft is another one I should have thought of. And of course I've read both Pratchett and Adams without knowing what they believed. Vonnegut is on my shame-on-me-for-never-having-read-yet list.

The author/belief list was utterly fascinating. A lot of the names I'd simply never matched to a belief system (or unbelief system!) It always intrigues me to see how an author's outlook on life informs their fiction, whether or not I agree with the principles.

Thanks again!

On an unrelated topic, I'll try to stop putting smileys at the end of three-quarters of all my paragraphs....


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## Argentum

Oh dear. Well, this is a wonderful thread and I love the conversation and lack of arguments. But does this then makes me the first Christian on Mythic? I don't throw bibles around in people's faces. And while I'm very willing to try to explain what I think/believe and translate it from Christian-speak to english (if anyone is curious), I'm not about to push it on anyone.

I read in a few posts that it seemed the majority of writers tended to be atheists or agnostic. I think that certain types of people with religious beliefs, like Christians for example, won't be well known because their books tend to be openly religious and are sold on separate markets, Christian bookstores and things. But what I think is fascinating is when a person has a set of beliefs and they only add to the story and enrich it and don't slap you in the face, so a greater audience can enjoy it whether or not they share the same beliefs. C.S. Lewis for example had very strong beliefs, but it only seemed to make Narnia that much more so and a great audience could enjoy them. And Tolkien too, had great beliefs but they did not slap you in the face, they made his story powerful and he ended up with a great epic of Good vs. Evil. I love how the belief (whatever they may be) can enrich the story.

But there are stories with beliefs and preaching stuffed into page after page of monologue (*cough Anne Rice cough*) and I think that's one of the worst ways to let your beliefs influence your writing.


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## sashamerideth

Argentum said:
			
		

> Oh dear. Well, this is a wonderful thread and I love the conversation and lack of arguments. But does this then makes me the first Christian on Mythic? I don't throw bibles around in people's faces. And while I'm very willing to try to explain what I think/believe and translate it from Christian-speak to english (if anyone is curious), I'm not about to push it on anyone.
> 
> I read in a few posts that it seemed the majority of writers tended to be atheists or agnostic. I think that certain types of people with religious beliefs, like Christians for example, won't be well known because their books tend to be openly religious and are sold on separate markets, Christian bookstores and things. But what I think is fascinating is when a person has a set of beliefs and they only add to the story and enrich it and don't slap you in the face, so a greater audience can enjoy it whether or not they share the same beliefs. C.S. Lewis for example had very strong beliefs, but it only seemed to make Narnia that much more so and a great audience could enjoy them. And Tolkien too, had great beliefs but they did not slap you in the face, they made his story powerful and he ended up with a great epic of Good vs. Evil. I love how the belief (whatever they may be) can enrich the story.
> 
> But there are stories with beliefs and preaching stuffed into page after page of monologue (*cough Anne Rice cough*) and I think that's one of the worst ways to let your beliefs influence your writing.



I remember a Mormon on here, a couple Catholics, so I don't think you are the first Christian to chime in.


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## Argentum

Oh, I guess I meant someone of my particular beliefs, in some ways related to Mormons beliefs perhaps, and definitely related to Catholicism, but different as well.


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## Chilari

Wow am I ever late to the party. For the record, I'm atheist now but I wasn't always. My mum is Christian and goes to church every week, and my dad is agnostic but goes to church at Christmas and Easter. When I was younger I had a lot of Christian friends so I started to go to their church, a Baptist church, rather than the one mum goes to (multiplying my Sunday travel distance by ten to do so - mum's church is three houses away). I got baptised while there, when I was seventeen. But then I started having doubts. Sometimes I felt like a fraud. I tried asking God why I couldn't always feel his presence. I asked him to show me a sign, and I looked for a reply but never saw one. I read up about evolution and other things Baptists don't believe in.

By the time I started university when I was 19 (I took a year out to earn money), I was practically agnostic. Then what I learned in my first year at university pretty much put paid to any doubts. I studied ancient history and archaeology, so while in the ancient history lectures I was learning about Mithraism and other ancient religions and seeing for myself the similarities between what I had believed about Jesus and these religions which in many cases originated a century or more before Christianity; in archaeology I was learning about the origins of homo sapiens, the long evolution from proto-primates, the Neanderthals who died out millennia before Baptists said the world was even created. And all of that seemed to make so much more sense than what I'd read in the Bible.

So now I am an atheist. I don't believe in any gods, though if evangelists stop me in the street when I'm shopping I tell them I'm Discordian because then they go "oh, okay" half the time because they don't know what that is or what I (apparently) believe, whereas when I say I'm an atheist they begin their spiel about being saved or, in one case, tell me I'm going to burn in hell. I believe that, since this is all we've got, we've got to make the most of it. I believe that morality comes from biology - we as a species will not continue to propogate if we kill and alienate people, and this has been enshrined in society and subsequently adopted into religion and law. I believe religion began as a way for individuals to control large groups, and that in the modern world its place is similar, but different. Now, with democracy and a global economy, etc, religion is no longer needed in that context. Now it is used by individuals to organise their thoughts and justify their opinions on things. It can give people hope and direction, but it can also be used to make people believe certain ideas or ideals and justify wrongdoing. It can bring people together as a community, and forge strong bonds between people, or it can divide. I see religion not as a negative force or as a positive force, but as something which reflects the desires, hopes and opinions of those who subscribe to it and use it to achieve their goals. There are people who use it for evil, and there are people who use it for good.


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## Xanados

myrddin173 said:


> I am an Anglican, and I have gone to church almost every Sunday for most of my life.  I do believe in God, but I don't believe in forcing my beliefs on others, they have the right to their beliefs.


One a kind you are...one of a kind. I'm a Pagan. (Not Wiccan)


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## The Blue Lotus

I was raised Southern Baptist. 
After years of theological research I changed my religion to Hindu.


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## Misusscarlet

Deism. The belief in a Higher Power that  created earth and the people and that's where it stops, he has nothing else to do with us other than our creation. Don't believe in miracles or Jesus coming back to life, or even that he existed. Jesus was just a special guy. No Noah's ark, no parting of the red sea. It works for me.


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## HÃ«radÃ¯n

I was raised to believe in Christianity, I have since identified as nonreligious/atheist, for 6 years.



> but I think it's important to remember that things like evolution and the Big Bang are called "theories" for a reason.


Let me just say I am very familiar with the arguments for an against religion. What you are doing is conflating the scientific and layman's definition of the word 'theory'. In science a theory is a set of facts that explains a natural phenomenon, ie something that actually happens. to demonstrate my point: germ theory is a theory too.
peanut gallery: oh I can't believe you are sighting wikipedia!
my response: I can't be bothered to find a proper source right now.


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## mythique890

Another Mormon (probably not a shock if you've read enough of my posts).  I love being LDS, and my religion is a core part of my life.  I'm not originally from Utah, I grew up in Illinois and Ohio, outside of the 'bubble.'  My mom converted and raised all four of us kids LDS.  It stuck with three of us (the girls), and my brother is only 20, so I'm interested in seeing what he chooses when he's a little older.  My dad is non-denominational.  So I'm not a typical Mormon in the sense of how I was raised, but I like it that way.  I've seen other things, and I still choose this.

A theoretical question for people who have mentioned experiments and proof:  Say there is a God.  He is omniscient, all-powerful, etc., and he doesn't _want_ there to be proof that he exists so that people must exercise faith.  All experiments to prove his existence would have to fail or be inconclusive.

I've heard it said that human beings can neither prove nor disprove the existence of God.  I think that's true.  Either way, I'm happy.  If I'm wrong, I have still lived a good life.


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## Shadoe

I'm a slightly Pagan, somewhat Wiccan, Taoist studying Buddhism. Raised Baptist - Northern Baptist.


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## Lord Darkstorm

I was raised baptist, but I've discovered I'm not overly fond of religions.  I believe in God, and have a very strong faith.  Since I tend to question most everything from time to time, I came to the conclusion that while the majority of religions start with good intentions, too often they are used as a means to try and control people and twisting the tenents of the religion in ways never intended.  

Since I do question, I know there are many that have mentioned that there is no proof God exists.  I look up in the sky at night (or better yet the pictures comming out of the Hubble space telescope) and I find my answer.  Walk out into any area we haven't taken over, and look at the beauty that is there.  If it is all random chance, I loose nothing, but I prefer to believe that it was all done with a purpose, whether we understand it or not.


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## Aegle

Southern Baptist, don't see that changing at *any* point. Now then - the church's I have had the pleasure of attending, would *never* tell anyone to leave or disallow them to congregate, given that they ascribe to the belief that church is mainly *for* sinners.

I don't like religious discussion, seeing as I'm as strong in my faith, as I am to my privacy. ..albeit I'm glad I could give a little input here.


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## Helbrecht

> What you are doing is conflating the scientific and layman's definition of the word 'theory'. In science a theory is a set of facts that explains a natural phenomenon, ie something that actually happens. to demonstrate my point: germ theory is a theory too.



I'm aware of the definition, yeah. What I meant to suggest there was that, occasionally, theories can be disproved, corrected or amended. To demonstrate my point: Newton's laws of motion were proven to have a few holes in by Einstein to be inaccurate when dealing with data that's very precise or an object that's very fast. There are absolutely no absolutes in science, and definitely no definites.  Looking at history, I find it arrogant to assume that our scientific knowledge is ever complete, or even sufficient. To do so is to let science stagnate, right?

Anyway, I digress, that's another debate entirely. Having said all that, I think currently established science is sufficient _enough_ an explanation for the origins and development of life, the universe and everything. I threw that line in there as an afterthought and I apologise for the confusion. What I meant to say was, I don't begrudge people their scepticism of established scientific theories so long as they don't begrudge me my support of them.


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## grahamguitarman

Ophiucha said:


> Katsushika Hokusai grew up in a time when Japan was relatively isolated and knew little of other paintings, so his work is influenced by the Japanese landscape and Japanese artwork. I don't think that if he were born in China, and could travel the world or see art from Europe, that he wouldn't have been an artist, but how and what he drew may have been quite different.



Hate to disagree, but as someone who has studied Art history at Art College, I can tell you that Hokusai and the other Ukiyo-e artists were in fact influenced by the western art that was coming in to the country at the time!  The Japanese take on perspective and anatomy was then exported back to the west to influence European artists!  But apart from that your basic premise is not without merit if you go back another couple of hundred years.

Personally I tend more towards Norse Heathenism for my religion - because it emphasises the personal responsibility of man for his own actions.  As a heathen I'm not allowed to say well its ok to do this because my god says so, I have to ask myself if the actions are right in themselves, independantly of religious belief (if that makes sense).


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