# Give a Tip!



## Philip Overby (May 17, 2012)

Ok, everyone.  Even if you haven't had any success with your writing or you've sold millions of books (if you have, please share the wealth  ) let's use this thread for giving tips.

Any tip will do.  Can be about writing in general, character design, plotting, setting, world-building, etc.

Maybe we can collect these all together?

Anyway, please share.  You can share multiple times, but please let someone else post before you share another tip.  

One tip at a time!  Here's mine below.

1.  Even if your story sucks, finish it.


----------



## gavintonks (May 17, 2012)

Understand the difference between an active dialogue / sentence and a passive it will save you a massive rewrite and ensure a much more readable body of work.

Jim fell from the roof.- passive 
He fell falling fast and the lights of the offices flickered in his vision.- no action / emotion or story qualifiers

falling from the roof, Jim cartwheeled his hands in a vain attempt to fly, even though he was plummeting to the ground at 32 meters per second per second, fear and the view falling past the windows confused him, when the couch caught him. - active

Which would you prefer to read?


----------



## Chilari (May 17, 2012)

Good idea, but I'm not so sure about your tip. Surely finishing something that sucks at a fundamental level is a waste of time? What are your reasons for proposing that tip?

My tip is this:

2. Decide what you want from your story before you start writing, then stick to it.

Why? If you don't know what you want from it you're going to struggle. I had a story I struggled with for years. For much of that time I was trying to work out whether I wanted it to be tragic or have a happy ending. One version saw the characters act in ways which would bring them grief later - the characters were the architects of their own downfall. The other was about love overcoming huge adversity. This version was to fulfill my inner romantic. It's what I wanted for my characters on a personal level. The tragic version is what I wanted for one character as part of his much larger story, and what I wanted on a storytelling level. I never quite worked out what I wanted most from the story and in any case later decided it sucked on a fundamental level.

Essentially, though, it's about what you want your novel to be and what you want to get out of personally.

Edit: Opps, pipped to the post by gavintonks.

Gavin, I'm not sure your tip is about passive or active writing, it seems to be more about describing events in a more detailed way. Passive and active prose is more like this:

John was bitten by the dog - passive sentence
The dog bit John - active sentence

Using active prose is more punchy, more immediate, more exciting. Passive writing has its place in scenes where these features of active writing are not desired, or where you want to demonstrate that a character is passive, but it is certainly a good idea to be careful around passive sentences and avoid them when they are inappropriate.


----------



## shangrila (May 17, 2012)

3. Be flexible. First drafts are written to get the general ideas down; don't be afraid to change something if it works better or creates a more compelling story. More importantly, be open to feedback and suggestions. You don't have to use them, but anything that gets you thinking is good.

I guess I'll add another...

4. Write a first draft. I see a lot of people talking on this forum (and others, as well as real life) as if they're just going to sit down and write the story from start to finish, do some editing and that's that. In reality, most authors will do multiple drafts before their books are printed. So don't be afraid to push through a section you don't like; you can re-write it in the next draft. Also, don't get caught up on editing; again, fix it in the next go around.


----------



## Philip Overby (May 17, 2012)

Chilari said:


> Good idea, but I'm not so sure about your tip. Surely finishing something that sucks at a fundamental level is a waste of time? What are your reasons for proposing that tip?



Finishing something is finishing something.  If something sucks, which all first drafts do regardless of who you are, then it needs to be finished so it can be edited.  Maybe the tip should be, "All first drafts suck, so finish them."

Another tip:

5.  Write everyday.  Seriously, write everyday.


----------



## Devor (May 17, 2012)

6)  Draw a line across the page.  Label it with your MC's name.  Put a dot in the middle, label it "Ch 1."  Fill out the rest of your timeline.


----------



## Kelise (May 17, 2012)

I'd agree that finishing something still at least helps you figure out plotting and how to bring all the loose plot ends together, giving some sort of finale and so forth. While writing can suck in general, there's no way that every single part of the writing craft/characters/plot and so on, can be awful. In some way, you're practising and refining something.

7. Accept that your writing is going to suck. Especially when you first start, especially in a first draft. If you can push through the very thought of that and keep trying, you're mentally more than half way there of someday being a fantastic writer. Motivation and dedication (and confidence) are the greatest tools a writer can have.


----------



## JCFarnham (May 17, 2012)

Building on Devor in a way...

8) When creating characters knowing everything you possibly can about them will save you a RIDICULOUS amount of time when it comes to plotting. You WILL know how they react. If you don't? Well, ask more questions, write down the answers (and no in your memory isn't good enough. never is), rinse and repeat again and again, until you can't question any more. Then do it some more. There is no substitute to being this thorough, no matter what you say and I'm convinced it will save you time in the long run.

Same goes for worldbuilding. Same goes for filling in plot holes. Question everything.


----------



## Kelise (May 17, 2012)

JCFarnham said:


> write down the answers (and no in your memory isn't good enough. never is)



I cannot agree enough. Some of my notes have gaps where I know I left it, thinking 'Oh, I'll remember that', or I've written it with acronyms or in keywords thinking it makes perfect sense. Years later, it doesn't. Write down everything and write it out in full for your own sake.


----------



## Ophiucha (May 17, 2012)

8. If you're stuck on something, come back to it later and move onto the next thing.

You'd be amazed how much you can get done without the details. I finished the first draft of a side project novella of mine without knowing where _any _of the scenes took place, since it's a historical fantasy and I need to line it up with my timeline. I'll get the places down in the next draft once I've cross-referenced my texts on the period, include appropriate details (if a scene takes place in Florence, comment on period-appropriate Florentine architecture), but I still could get some strong scenes, character development, and werewolf transformation sequences done without knowing if they were in Rome or the southern part of France without any difficulty. Don't let the creative juices stop flowing if you're stuck on a character's name or need to do some heavy research!


----------



## JCFarnham (May 17, 2012)

Kelise said:


> I cannot agree enough. Some of my notes have gaps where I know I left it, thinking 'Oh, I'll remember that', or I've written it with acronyms or in keywords thinking it makes perfect sense. Years later, it doesn't. Write down everything and write it out in full for your own sake.



It always makes me chuckle when I come across writers who say "I don't need to outline on paper, just have an idea of the direction I want to go in my head". You know what? That's great if you actually can manage that, but you probably have an eidetic memory or something. 

Even to that person I would suggest "write it all down". That brings me to the next point *Your story bible is your friend. Make one. Stick to it.*


----------



## Kelise (May 17, 2012)

JCFarnham said:


> It always makes me chuckle when I come across writers who say "I don't need to outline on paper, just have an idea of the direction I want to go in my head". You know what? That's great if you actually can manage that, but you probably have an eidetic memory or something.
> 
> Even to that person I would suggest "write it all down". That brings me to the next point *Your story bible is your friend. Make one. Stick to it.*



I would also greatly wonder just how detailed their plot is. Perhaps it is possible with a single book, with two or so POV characters and the plots that involve them... but I would highly doubt it would be possible with a grand series, many plots that weave in and out of several books with in-depth worldbuilding and so on.

I've been surprised before though, of course, I'd love to hear if anyone manages it.


----------



## Devor (May 17, 2012)

Ophiucha said:


> 8. If you're stuck on something, come back to it later and move onto the next thing.



I'm going to look like I disagree, not because I think you're wrong, but because the opposite is equally true and useful:

10. - If you're stuck on something, hammer it out before the tension builds up and it becomes some insurmountable wall weighing on your work.


----------



## BWFoster78 (May 17, 2012)

11. Eliminate all of the words that you don't need.

Wait...

11. Eliminate all the unnecessary words.

Wait...

11. Eliminate unnecessary words.

Seriously, the more concise you make it, the better.


----------



## Butterfly (May 17, 2012)

12. In building your scenes, remember you have five senses, so do your characters - sight, sound, smell, taste, touch (includes emotion). Taste is usually a little difficult to incorporate, but try to use them all. It will give depth to everything you describe.


----------



## Christopher Wright (May 17, 2012)

Kelise said:


> I would also greatly wonder just how detailed their plot is. Perhaps it is possible with a single book, with two or so POV characters and the plots that involve them... but I would highly doubt it would be possible with a grand series, many plots that weave in and out of several books with in-depth worldbuilding and so on.
> 
> I've been surprised before though, of course, I'd love to hear if anyone manages it.



It's entirely possible. You just need to take notes as you go.

Everything I write consists of two elements:

1. the story.

2. A text file that contains lists of names, locations, and things I don't want to forget. 

It's a record of Things I Have Already Done. And I use it constantly. But don't call it an outline, because we will fight, and I fight dirty.


----------



## Chilari (May 17, 2012)

JCFarnham said:


> *Your story bible is your friend. Make one. Stick to it.*



YES.

I'm in the process of making one at the moment. Mostly it is produced in two steps:

1. I write an email to myself from work containing random thoughts, notes and ideas, including plot notes, character notes and world notes. I generally have the email open all day and add a sentence here or a paragraph there when I get ideas or am not busy etc, then send it at hometime. The point of these emails to get me thinking about the plot and characters, not really to set anything in stone.

2. Referring to these emails only glancingly (and sometimes not at all), work on the infosheet document, a formal, structured document with sections split up, including space for a single-sentence plot summary, a paragraph plot summary, a paragraph on setting, sections for point of view characters, major characters and secondary characters etc. I also have a separate worldbuilding infosheet, with questions about geography, history, religion, myth, economy, military, technology, etc.

I'm finding it very useful in developing the world, story and characters. So far it's mostly been world and characters, but the plot is getting little bits added to it to flesh it out all the time too. It's coming along nicely.


----------



## Aravelle (May 17, 2012)

1. Write for yourself before anyone else. If you're writing a story and your first priority is if other people will like it, your priorities are wrong. There's an audience for almost everything.

2. Use similes and metaphors sparingly. If you decide to use them, be tactful.


----------



## Penpilot (May 17, 2012)

1 - Believe you WILL get better.

Just because your writing isn't coming together like you want it too, and maybe it's a little stinky right now, believe if you work hard and learn all that you can, you will get better.


----------



## Devor (May 17, 2012)

Penpilot said:


> Just because your writing isn't coming together like you want it too, and maybe it's a little stinky right now, believe if you work hard and learn all that you can, you will get better.



Yes, exactly.  We can't all be Charles Dickens, but anyone who pays attention and puts in the practice and incorporates good feedback will be able to write a novel which sells.  It's hard, but with a little good judgement and a lot of work, I firmly believe that anyone can get there.


----------



## Twilight Flyer (May 17, 2012)

Aravelle said:


> 1. Write for yourself before anyone else. If you're writing a story and your first priority is if other people will like it, your priorities are wrong. There's an audience for almost everything.


You stole my thunder. 

Yes, write for yourself first!  If you write for yourself, you will never fail.

Everything else is just gravy.


----------



## Ghost (May 17, 2012)

Write. Right now. Go do it!

That's all.


----------



## Ankari (May 17, 2012)

I think we're on 

13) Gather a small group of people to critique the hell out of you.

13 A) Don't fish for compliments, demand a crucifixion.  

13 B) Grow Hulk-like skin.


----------



## Leif GS Notae (May 18, 2012)

14) Stop writing like a reader.

Never go from beginning to end, always be aware that you can write other scenes out of order (and it is far preferable to do so) instead of writing yourself into a corner halfway through because that one thought you had 3 months ago will "come back to you later". It is far easier to tie scenes together than it is to trudge along a path in hopes you'll find your muse again.


----------



## gavintonks (May 18, 2012)

Understand words and what they mean do not guess

emotion / look it up and plan the story to encompass the emotions as well as your characters as it keeps the story flowing knowing how they should react in a given scene

Understand you are writing for someone to read, not your own personal soap box, let the story flow


----------



## gavintonks (May 18, 2012)

you are vieing for peoples time / play a video game read your book? which is more exciting


----------



## BWFoster78 (May 18, 2012)

Here's a good line editing tip:

15. Read your work sentence by sentence starting at the end of the piece and working backwards.

When you read from the start, you have the tendency to get caught up in the story.  Going from back to front forces you to concentrate on each sentence individually.


----------



## BWFoster78 (May 18, 2012)

Leif GS Notae said:


> 14) Stop writing like a reader.
> 
> Never go from beginning to end, always be aware that you can write other scenes out of order (and it is far preferable to do so) instead of writing yourself into a corner halfway through because that one thought you had 3 months ago will "come back to you later". It is far easier to tie scenes together than it is to trudge along a path in hopes you'll find your muse again.



Sorry, Leif, I don't agree at all.  If it works for you best to skip around, that's fine.  However, that is not the way everyone works.  If I get an idea for a really cool scene in my head, I'll get it down on paper just so I don't lose the thoughts, but, overall, I start at the beginning and work my way to the end.  This method works a lot better for me than skipping around would.


----------



## Chilari (May 18, 2012)

BWFoster78 said:


> Here's a good line editing tip:
> 
> 15. Read your work sentence by sentence starting at the end of the piece and working backwards.
> 
> When you read from the start, you have the tendency to get caught up in the story.  Going from back to front forces you to concentrate on each sentence individually.



Ooh, good tip, I'll try that one next time I edit anything. I've had that problem before. I do occasionally find, reading back through something I wrote a long time ago, that I'd written a word twice, used a similar-sounding word to the one I actually wanted by accident, used the wrong name or pronouns for a character or something like that. I can see how going backwards sentence by sentence could remedy those sorts of problems.

Oh I'm posting, I'd better include a tip:

16. Set achievable goals, like "I'm going to write 500 words a day this week" or "I'm going to finish this chapter by Tuesday." Achieving them makes it easier to keep going and gives a morale boost.


----------



## ArielFingolfin (May 18, 2012)

BWFoster78 said:


> Sorry, Leif, I don't agree at all.  If it works for you best to skip around, that's fine.  However, that is not the way everyone works.  If I get an idea for a really cool scene in my head, I'll get it down on paper just so I don't lose the thoughts, but, overall, I start at the beginning and work my way to the end.  This method works a lot better for me than skipping around would.



I think that's one that varies from person to person, or even story to story. I've done both.

17. Stop trying to describe something you can't see clearly. If it's not clear to you, it won't be clear to the reader. Instead of trying to write a description of something you only have a hazy idea of, stop and build it. Then it'll be a hundred times easier to use.


----------



## Devor (May 18, 2012)

BWFoster78 said:


> If it works for you best to skip around, that's fine.  However, that is not the way everyone works.



N'ehhh . . . . I'm with Leif on this one.  When you write, sometimes there's a section which is all _setup_ and another which is _payoff_.  It helps to have a clear picture of what's demanded in that payoff section before you write the setup, and sometimes that's best done by writing it first.  So with that in mind, I'm going to go with:

18)  If you think only one technique will work for you, try practicing new ways of writing your story.


----------



## Christopher Wright (May 18, 2012)

19. Do it the way you want. Be prepared to accept the consequences.

This is actually my golden rule of doing pretty much anything in the arts.


----------



## gavintonks (May 18, 2012)

read your writing out loud


----------



## BWFoster78 (May 18, 2012)

> N'ehhh . . . . I'm with Leif on this one. When you write, sometimes there's a section which is all setup and another which is payoff. It helps to have a clear picture of what's demanded in that payoff section before you write the setup, and sometimes that's best done by writing it first. So with that in mind, I'm going to go with:
> 
> 18) If you think only one technique will work for you, try practicing new ways of writing your story.



The opposite is just as often true as far as I'm concerned: something that happens in the setup impacts the events of the payoff.

In my opinion, writing is an intensely personal creative experience, and there are many variables that go into what makes a writer successful: how they think, how they process information, what motivates them, how they organize themselves, etc.  Which leads me to:

20. While it's fine to experiment with as many methods as you feel may help you, anyone telling you that there is only one way to do something in regards to your creative process is probably wrong.


----------



## Devor (May 18, 2012)

BWFoster78 said:


> 20. While it's fine to experiment with as many methods as you feel may help you, anyone telling you that there is only one way to do something in regards to your creative process is probably wrong.



. . . y'know, this could go on a while.  So this will be my last post on the matter.  But more often than not, I find that I'm the one telling myself there's only one way to do something.  By your advice, I'm wrong - and I am.  I've seen enough on these forums to think the same misconception is held by most authors, which is why I suggest practicing new techniques, and not convincing yourself that you have to stick to one.


----------



## Jabrosky (May 18, 2012)

I may have said this before in another thread, but one technique I find really helpful for writing short stories is to start knowing only what's going to happen in the first scene or two. Once you get those out of the way, the rest of the story's plot may unfold in your head. I don't know how applicable the technique is to novels though; I would think there would be a lot more to keep track of in a longer story, so writing something down may work better.


----------



## gavintonks (May 19, 2012)

understand the scene you are describing is a 3d image experiment with different viewpoints and imagine explaining to someone from inside the heat of the battle, not just a commentary from the outside, turn it around and find the most engrossing view that will keep readers begging for more, many writers without fantastic skills have aced it because they have an exciting or original viewpoint
at the same time keep the view consistent


----------



## gavintonks (May 19, 2012)

remember the basic stories if it is a love story sell it as one


----------



## Kit (May 19, 2012)

Television, video games and Facebook= The Unholy Trifecta of Time-Suck. Limit these, and suddenly there is time to write.


----------



## Leif GS Notae (May 19, 2012)

BWFoster78 said:


> 20. While it's fine to experiment with as many methods as you feel may help you, anyone telling you that there is only one way to do something in regards to your creative process is probably wrong.



Thank you BW, you've given me #21

Stop giving tips and advice to people who are either not willing or too afraid to change today. Use that energy to concentrate on your goals and dreams. 

Much like Musashi, silence is far better than tipping your hand. Much like growth, you cannot offer a hand to someone and pull them to a level, you must watch them get there themselves. So thank you BW, you help give me focus by making me remain silent. I shall make sure to stay away from the tip threads. It will make me a better writer.


----------



## Black Dragon (May 19, 2012)

Everyone,

Members have expressed concern with some of the posts in this thread.  Please remember our guiding principle:



> Treat others with respect and dignity, and foster a positive, welcoming and family-friendly community.



Any hostility or contentiousness is not welcome here.  Please try to maintain a positive environment.

If you have any questions regarding this policy, see this thread:

http://mythicscribes.com/forums/new...important-reporting-posts-improving-tone.html

Thank you for your cooperation.


----------



## ArielFingolfin (May 21, 2012)

#22(?) Know yourself. Maybe you've hit a wall when writing, some writers need to take a break and come back later, and others need to just keep bashing their head against it until it shatters. Maybe you need a quiet space to write or maybe you need a lot of background noise. Maybe you need to outline every scene and maybe you prefer to wing it and see what happens. You have to know what techniques work best for you so that you can maximize on those techniques when it gets tough to keep writing.


----------

