# How does my magic "system" sound?



## Tom (Oct 10, 2014)

Hi all, here's the magic system I've gradually developed for my main WIP. 
So basically, I approach magic in a very...scientific manner. Magic in the world of my WIP is an organic energy force that blankets the world and saturates everything in it. So everything--trees, animals, dirt, humans--has a bit of magic in it. 
People who can work magic come in two categories: those who use spells and those who don't. 
A magic user who uses spells has to concentrate very intensely--usually using "magic words" to guide their thoughts or focusing on a physical object or a mental image--to achieve enough focus to sense the magic in the world around them and be able to channel it. (This is ironic, since I'm ADD. I just realized that if I lived in my own made-up world I'd essentially be screwed if I had to work magic.) Channeling magic with a physical object is the easiest way, and a channeling stone is often used. Wizards and other accomplished magic users pride themselves on using language to channel magic, which is the hardest method since language is abstract, not physical.
The other type of magic user is called a natural magic user, or "inborn". Natural magic users, through genetic predisposition, have a higher level of magic in their bodies than most other people. They are able to work magic instinctively, using gestures, thoughts, and emotion as focuses for their channeling, and their magic usually manifests sometime during childhood. Most natural magic users can sense the magic around them in the form of an invisible aura, like the feeling of electricity in the air. 
A small percentage of natural magic users are born with so much magic that it is too powerful and chaotic for them to control, especially since any movement, thought, or emotion could set it off. Some are consumed by their magic soon after birth, while others develop a coping mechanism which blocks their ability to work magic. 

...and wow. That's one big hunk of text. I apologize in advance.
Thoughts on cultural implications? Any gaping holes in my theory?


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## TheokinsJ (Oct 11, 2014)

Love the idea of everything having magic within it- really cool twist on it... questions for thought: The magic system relies on things being saturated with magic, the organic energy, does that mean magic only interacts with magic? As in, is there anything within your world, which for some reason, does not contain magic?- could make things interesting. Also, what is the result of this magical force within the world? How many people have 'the gift', and what can they do with it exactly? How do non-magical users and magical users interact? Are people fearful of those with magic? Is there jealousy or hatred towards them for their gift? 

Just some questions for thought, but sounds awesome!


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## Tom (Oct 11, 2014)

Thanks for all the questions, TheokinsJ!

Hmmm...The magic is mostly evenly spread throughout the world (that's why I used the term "blanket"), but sometimes it pools in certain places and objects, creating a "pocket" of highly concentrated magic. Other times it's spread pretty thin. If a place or object contains only an infinitesimally small amount of magic, it can't be tapped into, and it's considered magicless. However, magic is never completely absent. It helps hold the world together, and I think having a tear in the magic would be that world's equivalent of a tear in the space-time continuum. 

You know, that would be interesting concept to explore...

Usually only about 2% of the population has the 'gift'. Because magic is a fluid, organic force that influences and is contained in everything, I chose to pretty much set no limits on what it can manipulate. Fire, water, wind, earth, physical, mental....anything. Magic users are usually strong in one area of magic, and can only work as much magic as their strength will allow, but other than that can do pretty much anything. There are basic ethics, and social restraints, to consider, though...

Anyway, natural magic users are treated depending on the attitude of the culture they're from. Some cultures revere the 'gift', others hate and fear it, and others are neutral. The wizard order in one nation believes natural magic is dangerous and unpredictable, so they basically forbid people with the 'gift' to use magic. 

One of my mage characters has the gift, and he's a member of the wizard order. He hides the gift, pretending to have to use spells like everyone else. In his own culture, his gift (fire magic) would be considered a blessing bestowed by the gods, since they believe fire is sacred. Among the culture the wizard order is part of, his 'gift' would be feared and seen as a sign that the God of Chaos had marked his spirit. 

Thanks again for the questions. The magic system sort of solidified a little more in my mind.


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## stephenspower (Oct 11, 2014)

You realize this is the story you should tell, that of someone who, for some reason such as ADD, would be screwed if he had to work magic in this world, right?


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## Tom (Oct 11, 2014)

Yeah, that is a great idea. Can you imagine the frustration of your average Fantasy Mentor(TM) if he had to teach an ADD hero to work magic? Maybe with time and patience the kid might be able to perform some really simple spells, but most likely he'd never progress beyond that. Sort of like me and math.

 I only realized the all-encompassing irony of the thing when I typed it out. I just thought, "The key to magic is focus--oh sh*t, I'd be so screwed."


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## skip.knox (Oct 11, 2014)

But perhaps that type of person -- and you don't have to tie yourself specifically to ADD -- is also able to do some unexpected things, precisely because of his so-called disability. This might make him an outsider, even a pariah, but might also make him exactly the right sort of person for whatever situation you create for your story.

As for the magic system, no questions or complaints. I'm not much help there. Most descriptions of other people's systems I read sound interesting but remote, rather like reading a recipe for a dish from a foreign country. I can't judge it until I taste it, at which point the recipe is sort of irrelevant.


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## K.S. Crooks (Oct 25, 2014)

I love your idea. What you my want to consider is:
- What are the limitations for magic and are the limitations for the people that use spells different than those of the inborns.
- If your story involves an entire society, you may want the number of people that can use magic, either method, to be small compared to the overall population to keep things more manageable.
- Can an inborn learn to use spells also, which would make them even more powerful
- Is being an inborn directly related to the power levels of the parents, so if two powerful spell uses have a child it has a better chance of being an inborn
- Are there any reasons for one group to dislike the other (real or imagined). Or are there "good" and "evil" groups of magic users.
- This story could lend itself to have a main character from each group...spell casters, inborns, non-magic users
- I agree there should also be people who cannot use magic for a variety of reasons.
Again great idea, best of luck with the story.Hope you publish it and let us all know about it.


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## Terry Greer (Oct 25, 2014)

I like magic being handled scientifically.  

Have you read Larry Niven's - The magic goes away' stories?  He has something similar. Magic is referred to as 'Mana' and it is present in everything and everywhere - however it's also a finite resource (like fossil fuels) and it can be used up in an area making 'dead zones' where magic doesn't work.

The story centers around the magician who discovered this.  In his books it's the reason whey magic doesn't exist anywhere now - its all bee used up - apart from some out of the way isolated areas unvisited or unfrequented.


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## Devor (Oct 26, 2014)

Following the effort at a scientific angle a bit . . . .

I'm a wizard, and I want to make a magic wand that spits out gum drops for the children.  What do I do?  The magic exists as a blanket everywhere, but is there some way to gather it and store it and operate it all on its own?  I mean, if you look at most real natural resources, there's a million ways to use them.

If I lived in this world, it seems to me that there would be money in gathering up all this magic that's lying around everywhere and selling it to the highest bidder.  If I was a government, that's the first thing I would want to do:  Clear out the magic in the areas surrounding my city so enemies can't use it against us, build up a storehouse for emergencies, set up operations to plunder it from areas an enemy might march on, look into ways to replenish it in areas that have been depleted.

I guess what I'm saying is, I think a good magic system should go beyond trying to explain the wizards in the setting.  Pretty much anything will work if that's all you're trying to do.  But there's a lot of untapped potential to really make a stab at changing what that setting even looks like.  And I'd like to see more people try to take it in those directions.


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## Cerberus (Oct 30, 2014)

So if magic can be approached scientifically does that mean that anyone could potentially learn it if they applied themselves, or is there a hierarchy of gifts such that there are those who can't use it at all, a small population who can learn to use it, and a smaller subset that use it naturally?

Sounds familiar .

Another question I've always thought was interesting was this: in a world permeated by magic, are there animals who also naturally use it? Such as magical creatures who evolve to tap into it even if they aren't sapient. You could even have subsets within animals so only a few among them possess the gift even though all are evolved to be able to use it if they have it.


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## Tom (Nov 3, 2014)

Hmm. Well, Devor, you really gave me some stuff to think about. 

You mentioned self-sustaining magic (the gumdrop machine--nice) and the possibility of magic being collected or cleared from an area. I'd say that yes, you could collect, store, and implement magic to work all on its own, but it would have to be set up so that the magic would have to pass through you to get into whatever object you're imbuing with magic. I already had it worked out that magic users can do this, but only at the cost of a very nasty experience that drains a lot of your strength. 

As I said in an earlier post, magic can't cleared from an area so that it's devoid of it completely (unless you WANT to bring about the end of the world), but it can be depleted to the point where it's undetectable. 

@Terry Greer: I haven't read anything by Larry Niven, but I've heard of his work concerning magic. It's a cool concept to think about.

@Cerberus: I'm pretty sure everyone could learn it potentially, if they had the proper training, but the simple fact is that that training isn't available to some people. If you're a farmer, you could have the potential to become the greatest wizard the world has ever seen, but if no one notices and takes the time to cultivate that potential, you just remain a farmer with an invisible gift that will never be tapped. 

It's kind of sad.

If you want people who have NO potential to use magic, there's a tiny percentage of inborns who can't use it at all. (And I might have already said something like this...) Their genetic capacity for magic is so powerful that anything they do can set off their channeling. Some of them die shortly after birth, overwhelmed by the magic they've inadvertently summoned. Others develop a kind of coping mechanism that blocks any ability to use magic whatsoever. Even if they receive training, they'll never be able to work magic. Ever. 

I'm also interested by the possibility of magical animals, and I actually invented a few. For example, there's a bird species that has evolved to channel magic into its singing. It uses its song-spells to lull its prey, insects and small animals such as mice and lizards, into a trance so it can grab them up at its leisure. Likewise, there's a wildcat species that can use magic to camouflage itself while it's waiting for prey.


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## spectre (Nov 27, 2014)

to me magic sourcing is a pain in the ass. between real life history and good fantasy, I think every way that magic could exist has been concocted. the habit I try to keep in developing a magical system is to make sure that it has the proper mystique, only a quintessential telling, and a lot of flair. you're not going to really detail the world of magic unless ur in some scholarly conflict over magic like with the asura in guild wars 2 or a conflict like that in a spell for chameleon by piers anthony, ur gonna use it, it's going to affect and awe you and maybe scare the hell out of you like in Robert Jordan's series. 

gaia is a real life construct and one used in fiction to detail a world saturated in magic. world of Warcraft sees tainted and cursed creatures, skyrim afflicted people, gw2 branded creatures. 

if you want to turn heads with your magic system just consider how far spread it's use is, and if it's minimal you'll want consequential magic use and if it's wide spread you'll want flambouyant displays and feats. you'll get a bit of both however you decide magic is going to be present in your world, but what i'm saying is to create a good ambiance in your magical endeavors.

for instance:

I like to read about schools of magic because of the possibility to learn new things (lore)
I like to read about feats of magic because of the amazement in what happens (thrill)
 (I like to read about plights of magic because of the sense of surrender it creates (suspense).

make sure you send people on an emotional roller coaster.


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## Rufanacious (Nov 28, 2014)

> to me magic sourcing is a pain in the ass. between real life history and good fantasy, I think every way that magic could exist has been concocted. the habit I try to keep in developing a magical system is to make sure that it has the proper mystique, only a quintessential telling, and a lot of flair.* you're not going to really detail the world of magic unless ur in some scholarly conflict over magic...*



If only!! 

The trouble is, you start in on a project thinking "oh, I'll just hash out the rudimentary shape of the magical system, then fill in the scenes as I go - it's magic after all - it's all about doing the impossible!" ... and then find yourself coming up against hurdle after hurdle (can he do that? how? does that mean she can do this? but she can't do that! If it works there why not here? Would this fix that? Could that solve this? It fixed that so why not this? How did that work? Why didn't this?) and getting tangled and stuck in your own lack of detail. 

It sounds counterintuitive but I would definitely say having more rules can help, with a magical system in a fantasy world. You need to have an intimate understanding of what is possible, and how, and for who, and why. It's the only way you can effectively write about people who live with that power - and about a world that has lived with that power for centuries. 

(That said, there is always the capacity to overthink!!)

@Tom - Seems pretty solid from where I'm sitting!! I have a ton of questions but they're the kind of thing that would be answered in the book, and it would be silly to just ask them here for the sake of it. It's interesting having the potential for anyone at all to connect to magic, with enough concentration - especially in the areas where using magic is forbidden - it strikes me that there would be something of an underworld, untrained people who've worked out enough tricks to get ahead, and so on. Which reminds me of something else that occurred to me - since magic-imbued objects take so much effort to create, there's a lot of value there... again with the black market theme... (apparently I'm thinking like a criminal today?...)


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## Tom (Nov 28, 2014)

Nice to meet you, Rufanacious!

Ask away! Don't be shy about asking questions--my ideas sometimes run on observations, and the more questions asked, the better I'll be able to realize a concept. 

I'm always thinking of criminal activity in my fantasy worlds, and one of the first things I did when I created the magic system was establish a blackmarket in one of the major cities that deals in channeling stones, the focus objects many mages use. They'll also hire out a mage trained in illegal magic for a handsome fee if you really feel the need to get back at someone in a creative and/or truly frightening way.


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## Addison (Nov 30, 2014)

Your magic system sounds solid, you've established the scarcity and difficulty but there's only one thing you haven't touched on that's important in all magic systems. Cost. All magic comes at a price. For some of your magic users the cost is clear. If they can't talk they can cast magic. If they can't move their hands they can't use magic. Are there any other costs? Sanity, life etc? Can you elaborate the costs?


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## Tom (Dec 1, 2014)

Addison said:


> Your magic system sounds solid, you've established the scarcity and difficulty but there's only one thing you haven't touched on that's important in all magic systems. Cost. All magic comes at a price. For some of your magic users the cost is clear. If they can't talk they can cast magic. If they can't move their hands they can't use magic. Are there any other costs? Sanity, life etc? Can you elaborate the costs?



I've decided that the main cost is energy. The more magic you work, the more energy it drains from your body. If you work too much magic at once, you might just die.

Magic also has a way of getting in your head and changing things around. The consequences can be anything from slightly altered cognition (thought patterns running astray more frequently, thoughts popping up in places they don't belong, stuff like that) to all-out insanity. Cackling, raving, room-with-padded-walls insanity.


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## KCross (Dec 1, 2014)

I only read your original post, but before I finish reading the other replies I wanted to say, have you thought of making a character with ADD?  Maybe the son of two powerful magic wielders but their son just can't concentrate enough to do anything?


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## Tom (Dec 1, 2014)

KCross said:


> I only read your original post, but before I finish reading the other replies I wanted to say, have you thought of making a character with ADD?  Maybe the son of two powerful magic wielders but their son just can't concentrate enough to do anything?



I'd say that my MC has ADD, but he can't work magic to begin with anyway. It's certainly an idea I've toyed with before, especially since it'd be a character I would strongly empathize with. Thanks for the suggestion!


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## ArenRax (Feb 6, 2015)

with Magic in fantasy there can be lots of system to be thought up but at the same time there can be more than one system in a world for example Tom you say that magic blankets the world and that there inborn and spoken magic users. well at the same time there could be others who harness this saturated worlds magic to fuel machines or others who by brewing together these saturated plants,dirt and rocks can create an effect, basically magic fueled alchemy that can have many results depending on how you design that system, there could also be those who use magic by drawing spell circles and Runes which are then fueled by this saturated magic. depending on how you think you can make many things happen from just 1 system.

before i post i probably should read everything else that been posted, scarcity of magic huh? with magic in a story is that something that should be inserted in a story or can you not have it?


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## Tom (Feb 6, 2015)

Scarcity of magic is one of those things that can be in issue in some stories, or not even mentioned in others. I find systems that address the scarcity of magic are more realistic--you can't pull a giant Deus ex Machina via magic with some handwaving about "Well, it's magic! It's limitless in its power!" Difficulty and scarcity make magic more believable and interesting to read about for me.


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## ArenRax (Feb 6, 2015)

Tom Nimenai said:


> Scarcity of magic is one of those things that can be in issue in some stories, or not even mentioned in others. I find systems that address the scarcity of magic are more realistic--you can't pull a giant Deus ex Machina via magic with some handwaving about "Well, it's magic! It's limitless in its power!" Difficulty and scarcity make magic more believable and interesting to read about for me.


At the same time though who says it has to be handwaving. throw  in a spell circle the earth shaking from the amount of power and mana sparks flying and throw in some awesome ancient sounding words and youd get a pretty good scene.
but there are many systems of magic.
Hiro Mashimura is the author of fairytail a manga i read and still read and in one of the volumes the chyaracters need to power up fast so it explains how magic works and that it comes from the body and that as you train/mature you get an extra source of magic in their body hence escalating their power. 
theres also ways of gaining power like in said book Dragon slayers can eat their element and gain more power.

okay from what i said ill describe a scene.
A spell circle 30 feet in diameter spreads open as a mage speaks forth his spell from his memory he speaks ancient words known only to him and any other versed in the language. as he speaks mana sparks fly and the earth shakes and he focuses his power into the spell. in front of him an arch Demon stands yet does not act for he was binded by the spell and further binded by the chains that were summoned and as the mage spoke more and more of his aincient words the earth buckled underneath the demon and grew upwards to cover it. the mage spoke he last of his spell and a huge world tree grew from where the demon was trapping it for all eternity.


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## Tom (Feb 6, 2015)

Eh, it's all up to personal preferences. You seem to be a fan of big magic, which is totally fine. Flashy magic can be fun! 

However, I prefer an understated, limited magic system--pared down and elegant in its simplicity--that doesn't try to shove the characters out of the main focus. Sometimes a powerful system can be too overwhelming, shadowing other aspects of the story and hindering character growth. And for me, it's all about characters and their development.


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## ArenRax (Feb 6, 2015)

Meh, try reading Tamira Pierce's books then.
besides to get that powerful magic the character still has to develop.
In the end theres also stuff as to whether theyll know right from wrong or be good or evil.
which ties in to the development of the character.


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