# Two observations today



## Demesnedenoir (May 19, 2016)

I was researching agents, seeing who reps who, and took a look at some book previews of authors rep'd by agents I was looking at. I won't name names or give quotes, but I came across an epic fantasy writer that I kind of liked on their previews... didn't fall in love with the prose, but I liked it enough to consider buying a novel. And then the writer poked me in the nose, and I didn't even realize it would bug me as much as it did... they italicized about 5 or 6 words in dialogue on one page. The first jarred me, the second made me go ugh! and by the time I got to the third I'd decided no way I would buy the book.

Why in the world did this author feel it necessary to highlight vague words _that_ mean nothing! It was like highlighting the fact the writer _knew_ these words were pointless, so they tried to give them weight _with_ emphasis. Anyhow, I had no idea I'd grown so easily annoyed by italics. 

But I later came back to this author, and read a little of another book in the series, didn't see much italics and and was just warming back up when they punched me in the face with a simile that just didn't work at all for me... twice in three pages, just knocked my eyeballs right out of the read with brain saying "whhaaaaaat? No." 

Which was kind of amusing, because just the day before I was reading a blog talking about simile and metaphor and how they can be a powerful tool for a writer, and a horrible enemy because they draw attention, so when they blow up, they blow up in a spectacular display. 

I still may give a book of his a chance and buy it, but I gave myself a quick lesson in how little things can turn off a potential book buyer, LOL. Mind you, these alone would not stop me from buying, it seemed borderline to begin with, but they may have pushed it over the cliff.

What other pet peeves do folks have? Heck, i didn't even know I had these until today, LOL.


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## FifthView (May 20, 2016)

One pet peeve that will often ruin a story for me:  unintended anachronism.   Things described in a fantasy world in ways they should not be:  "The feeling was positively electric."  Um, no.  One book (that was bad for other reasons as well) tried to describe some priestly get-up by saying it resembled those deep-sea fish that had a long stem hanging out over their heads with a glowing ball at the end--something I think we in our world only discovered relatively recently?   I also do not do well with things like, "That's cool!" or "Whoa, that sucks" in an otherwise medieval milieu, although this thankfully seems rare.  I don't want to read about some magical ball of light, or animal, making an "orbit" around a field....the list can go on and on.


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## Heliotrope (May 20, 2016)

For some strange reason the line: 

"A single tear dripped down his cheek..." Makes me want to vomit. And I see it so often! It can come in a variety of ways... sometimes the tear trails down the cheek. Sometimes the tear leaves a wet path... but that damn single tear makes me want to throw a book every time. 

Anything that starts with a noble girl leaving her home to become a warrior. Not saying any names, but a particular author with a particular steam punk pirate air ship captain novel caught my attention recently. I like air ship pirates, and the man on the cover was my type (*cough cough*). At the very beginning, it started with a noble girl leaving home to become a warrior. I was so disappointed!


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## We Rise Above (May 20, 2016)

Heliotrope said:


> Anything that starts with a noble girl leaving her home to become a warrior.



This has been such a cliche for so long that I'm always surprised to discover an author that uses it. Way back when, I regularly played D&D and anybody who created a character whose background involved something along the lines of "She was born to a noble family but she didn't want that kind of life. What she _really_ wanted to do was fight and have adventures..." would have been ridiculed for being unoriginal. 

Ever since, I've put down any book with a cover blurb that talks about a well-born person who voluntarily gives it all up to go off and fight. Now, if they're _forced_ to give it all up, that's a different story...


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## Svrtnsse (May 20, 2016)

One of my pet peeves is phrases along the lines of "a kind of <something> called <specialname>" when used when introducing the world of a story. It rubs me the wrong way for some reason, like I'm supposed to be impressed that someone's bothered coming up with a name for something.

EDIT: I'm aware this isn't exactly rational of me, and it seems to be fairly common so don't take it the wrong way if it's something you do.


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## Demesnedenoir (May 20, 2016)

Rational is not required in order to be a pet peeve, LOL. That's for sure. Can we get a more specific example, because depending on what gets plugged in the holes, I think I might get this one... but my brain is barely awake, heh heh.



Svrtnsse said:


> One of my pet peeves is phrases along the lines of "a kind of <something> called <specialname>" when used when introducing the world of a story. It rubs me the wrong way for some reason, like I'm supposed to be impressed that someone's bothered coming up with a name for something.
> 
> EDIT: I'm aware this isn't exactly rational of me, and it seems to be fairly common so don't take it the wrong way if it's something you do.


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## Svrtnsse (May 20, 2016)

At first I had a hard time finding the example I was thinking of, but then I ran a google search on "magical crystalls called" and got the following results on the first page:



> The Land of Crystals like the name is surrounded by tall and powerful magical crystals called Lacrima.
> Using powerful magical crystals called Lumcastia, [...]
> 
> They worshiped Meridia at a glorious cathedral, and their city's prosperity was ensured by magical crystals called the Lights of Meridia.
> ...



I have a hunch this is something that's pretty common when it comes to anime-based games/stories, and it may be it's a quirk of translation. Perhaps it's fine in it's original language, but to me it really grates.


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## Demesnedenoir (May 20, 2016)

Yes, I can see where it would get annoying. LOL.



Svrtnsse said:


> At first I had a hard time finding the example I was thinking of, but then I ran a google search on "magical crystalls called" and got the following results on the first page:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a hunch this is something that's pretty common when it comes to anime-based games/stories, and it may be it's a quirk of translation. Perhaps it's fine in it's original language, but to me it really grates.


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## skip.knox (May 20, 2016)

The farm boy with a destiny. Maybe it's because I'm old, but I don't think so, because this particular peeve has been my pet for a couple of decades at least.

Once upon a time, I did like coming-of-age stories. But I grew out of it. Now I give the book a pass if I see it's about young people engaged in a fantasy quest. I want a story about grown-ups. In truth, I'd like a story about an old man on an epic quest. But adult, anyway.

Adults have a depth that youth cannot have. Give me someone with a history (but not someone like Kvothe, please). Someone with scars rather than aspirations. Someone with a past rather than a destiny.

'Scuse me. Gotta take my pet for a walk.


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## Chessie (May 20, 2016)

Demesnedenoir said:


> Why in the world did this author feel it necessary to highlight vague words _that_ mean nothing! It was like highlighting the fact the writer _knew_ these words were pointless, so they tried to give them weight _with_ emphasis. Anyhow, I had no idea I'd grown so easily annoyed by italics.


I'm totally guilty of this thing you speak of.  _However_, it's a bad habit that I'm trying to break and your post gives me a strict reminder to knock it off. (see what I did there mw hahaha)

Pet peeves in books? Hm...probably dryness of any form. I'll let a lot go but if the story is boring and slow then I give it right up. One such fantasy book I recently read annoyed me because the first chapter was probably the longest I've read in any book ever. Nothing happened. Two chapters later, the story was still in the same freaking bar it had started in. So I rage quit.


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## Heliotrope (May 20, 2016)

Oh my gosh Skip I am so with you on the young person/coming of age story. I see why they are popular, for young people, but I feel like there is not enough adult lit in our genre (as I write yet another YA... maybe that's why I'm having trouble moving forward with it?) 

I recently read The Hundred Year Old Man Who Climbed Out The Window and Disappeared.  It was wonderful. I find that when I sit down to write the characters that pop into my head are people with life experience. A war hero with survivors guilt. A mother with a deformed child. A newly married woman questioning her identity and her choices... 

Hmmmm.... I think I might be writing the wrong novel.


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## Deleted member 4265 (May 20, 2016)

My pet peeves are:

any story about someone abdicating their responsibilities without any consideration of the consequences. Usually this fall into the princess (or prince) doesn't want to go through with a politically arranged marriage because love or they want to be a "free spirit" or something but there have been some other worse instances too.

Anything in first person that's not written as journal entries or being told by an older version of the MC. It really throws me when something's written in more "immediate" first person. I'm just always wondering how they can be conveying the story to me as its happening.

Generic religions. This is a sort of weird one, but I'm fascinated by religions and it really annoys me when I read a story with a very obvious generic copy of real world religions. I hate it when author's take a real world pantheon and change all the names, and call it a religion. What makes a religion fascinating isn't so much its deities as its message(s).

Anything YA. Its just not for me

Female character who doesn't want kids is forced to take care of a baby and starts developing maternal instincts (I get this is a bit of a double standard because I don't mind this plot line with a male character, but female =/= good with children)


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## Demesnedenoir (May 20, 2016)

I'm with you on all of these. I try to erase my knowledge of world religion when coming at developing their mythologies, coming up wth individual creation myths and running from there. 

YA, yeah... ugh. 





Devouring Wolf said:


> My pet peeves are:
> 
> any story about someone abdicating their responsibilities without any consideration of the consequences. Usually this fall into the princess (or prince) doesn't want to go through with a politically arranged marriage because love or they want to be a "free spirit" or something but there have been some other worse instances too.
> 
> ...


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## Demesnedenoir (May 20, 2016)

The bildungsroman is unavoidable, it has been and always will be one of the key stories in human myth... at least until we're all immortal and no longer bother having children. heh heh.

I do agree, more adult is better... but not the T-n-A kind, LOL... I skip sex scenes, they bore the bejeebers out of me.



Heliotrope said:


> Oh my gosh Skip I am so with you on the young person/coming of age story. I see why they are popular, for young people, but I feel like there is not enough adult lit in our genre (as I write yet another YA... maybe that's why I'm having trouble moving forward with it?)
> 
> I recently read The Hundred Year Old Man Who Climbed Out The Window and Disappeared.  It was wonderful. I find that when I sit down to write the characters that pop into my head are people with life experience. A war hero with survivors guilt. A mother with a deformed child. A newly married woman questioning her identity and her choices...
> 
> Hmmmm.... I think I might be writing the wrong novel.


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## Vaporo (May 21, 2016)

On the subject of italics, it drives me up the wall when I see an author italicize the _word_ before the word that should be emphasized. Try saying that last sentence out loud. It sounds completely unnatural to emphasize "word" instead if "before." It would be one thing if it was a one-time mistake, but I've seen it done in several different books. When I see it, it's just so jarring that I have to stop and say the sentence to myself a few times to try and figure out how the author intended for it to be read, and even after repeating it to myself a dozen times it usually still feels unnatural.

My own pet peeve? I made a thread about this a month or two ago, but I absolutely hate it when a book ends an exciting chapter on a cliffhanger and cuts to a relatively dry and unexciting scene. Do you honestly think that the chapter is so dull that you have dangle a bit of interesting plot at the end just to convince people to read it? If so, then it probably deserves to be rewritten or cut out completely. It's such an artificial way of creating suspense and it just frustrates and annoys me every time I see it.


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## skip.knox (May 21, 2016)

Devouring Wolf reminded me of another pet peeve: writing in the present tense. It's a huge red flag for me. Add any one other pet peeve, even the lesser ones such as poor grammar, and I stop reading. I know there are exceptions out there somewhere, but they're as rare as unicorns and there are so many other, better books waiting to be read, why drag myself through the Swamp of Inept Immediacy?


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## Demesnedenoir (May 21, 2016)

Heliotrope said:


> For some strange reason the line:
> 
> "A single tear dripped down his cheek..." Makes me want to vomit. And I see it so often! It can come in a variety of ways... sometimes the tear trails down the cheek. Sometimes the tear leaves a wet path... but that damn single tear makes me want to throw a book every time.



Muwahahahahahaha! I was perusing a preview of The Grim Company on Amazon and after slugging my way through wasted word after wasted word, and a 4 sentence paragraph with 4 pointless adverbs (including an echo within 10 words) I came to the end of the chapter to find....

A single tear rolled down his cheek.

And I thought of you, LOL.


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## Heliotrope (May 21, 2016)

OMG WHY!!!!!!! WHY do they do that? 

Oh my god did you feel the bile rising in your throat?

I picked up a book one time at the grocery store by a highly prolific fantasy author with the initials SK and it was on the first page! I just couldn't....


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## Demesnedenoir (May 21, 2016)

No bile, just pee inducing laughter, heh heh.

Bad part is, it seemed fairly interesting, but dang, it was like the author was pushing my buttons to make sure I didn't buy it.



Heliotrope said:


> OMG WHY!!!!!!! WHY do they do that?
> 
> Oh my god did you feel the bile rising in your throat?
> 
> I picked up a book one time at the grocery store by a highly prolific fantasy author with the initials SK and it was on the first page! I just couldn't....


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## Demesnedenoir (May 21, 2016)

OK, PM if you must, is it King, Kelso... who violated your sensibilities! LOL.



Heliotrope said:


> OMG WHY!!!!!!! WHY do they do that?
> 
> Oh my god did you feel the bile rising in your throat?
> 
> I picked up a book one time at the grocery store by a highly prolific fantasy author with the initials SK and it was on the first page! I just couldn't....


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## Miskatonic (May 22, 2016)

skip.knox said:


> The farm boy with a destiny. Maybe it's because I'm old, but I don't think so, because this particular peeve has been my pet for a couple of decades at least.
> 
> Once upon a time, I did like coming-of-age stories. But I grew out of it. Now I give the book a pass if I see it's about young people engaged in a fantasy quest. I want a story about grown-ups. In truth, I'd like a story about an old man on an epic quest. But adult, anyway.
> 
> ...



I have a farm boy MC in my series. However he's not destined to save the world or anything, just has a part to play in the bigger picture. No superpowers, no special lineage that makes him unique, etc. That and he's only MC for the first half of the series.


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## Nomadica (May 29, 2016)

^ You can have young people with depth and scars. They would be the exceptions but that's what stories are made of, exceptions. When I was younger I had made some bizarre choices that took me to such strange experiences that I had and have a hard time relating to people. I also had a lot of trauma early on. So deep young people happen. Also shallow old people happen. But I see where skip.knox is coming from.


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## Necroben (May 29, 2016)

Sadly I used to think this could go without saying, but bad grammar is a peeve of mine.

In today's e-book world where anyone can publish a story I've seen a lot of bad grammar. Nothing knocks you out of a story faster than: Strait a head he marshed. Never looked over the shoulder.


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## Heliotrope (May 29, 2016)

lol! @ Necroben that is hilarious!


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## Necroben (May 29, 2016)

Looking back on it I can laugh now. But at the time I wanted to break my Kindle.


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## glutton (Jun 1, 2016)

Heliotrope said:


> Anything that starts with a noble girl leaving her home to become a warrior. Not saying any names, but a particular author with a particular steam punk pirate air ship captain novel caught my attention recently. I like air ship pirates, and the man on the cover was my type (*cough cough*). At the very beginning, it started with a noble girl leaving home to become a warrior. I was so disappointed!



Lol I use the noble girl warrior all the time, they don't usually renounce their nobility to do it though. One of them does it because her sick brother can't attend military school so she goes in his place with the (reluctant) blessing of her parents, in general they are often so gifted at fighting it would be kind of a waste for them not to be warriors and they become champion of their homeland or something XD


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## spectre (Jun 1, 2016)

@heliotrope what about "...tears rolled angrily down his cheeks like a river over stone." or something to that affect. Now I'm scared to have my characters cry. Lol.

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## spectre (Jun 1, 2016)

@Svrtnesse yeah I struggle with it and I'm trying to really put new craft into my fantasy. (about a <thing> called <special name>).

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## spectre (Jun 1, 2016)

@skip.nox if farm boy with a destiny bugs you, did you like Robert Jordan?

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## Guy (Jun 1, 2016)

Pet peeves... well, let's see...

Vampires.
Names that don't conform to any known rules of phonetics.
Would-be action girls who end up having to be rescued by the men.
Vampires.
Authors who don't do their research. In _Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep_ Phillip K. Dick armed Deckard with a ".38 Magnum." I just shook my head and thought, "Congratulations, Phil. You just invented the .357. Too bad Smith and Wesson and Winchester beat you to it in 1935." Another author had his hero "switch off the safety on his Glock." Yeah, you know how you switch off the safety on a Glock? You pull the trigger. Swords didn't weigh twenty pounds and no warrior with more than three functioning brain cells would go into battle wearing armor so heavy it immobilized him.
Vampires.
Giving archers the order to "fire!" You don't fire a bow. You loose, release, or shoot, but you do not fire.
Love triangles. 
Did I mention vampires?


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## Ireth (Jun 1, 2016)

Guy said:


> Giving archers the order to "fire!" You don't fire a bow. You loose, release, or shoot, but you do not fire.



Seconded. So very, very seconded.

Also, characters speaking random phrases in their native tongue when the book/movie/whatever as a whole is meant to be translated, and it can be assumed they're speaking their native tongue already even though we see or hear English. Ex. in "The Road to El Dorado", Tulio suddenly saying "_Â¡Buenos DÃ­as!_" or "...we'll row back to Spain like there's no _maÃ±ana_!"


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## Miskatonic (Jun 2, 2016)

Guy said:


> Pet peeves... well, let's see...
> 
> Vampires.
> Names that don't conform to any known rules of phonetics.
> ...



Not only do I have farm boys, I also have vampires!


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## Ireth (Jun 2, 2016)

Miskatonic said:


> Not only do I have farm boys, I also have vampires!



I have a farm boy (well, man; he's 23) who becomes a vampire at the start of his novel. XD And various other vampires as well.


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## FifthView (Jun 2, 2016)

Guy said:


> Names that don't conform to any known rules of phonetics.



Yes, this.



> Giving archers the order to "fire!" You don't fire a bow. You loose, release, or shoot, but you do not fire.



The idea of "fire a gun" comes from setting fire to the fuse on cannons and other early firearms.  Heh, firearms.  That's from the 1520s, although apparently the "extended sense of 'to throw (as a missile)' " is from 1580s, so it quickly gained a more general warfare-related sense.

Earlier, I can see "Fire!" being a command to set the arrows on fire, then it might be followed by "Loose!"


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## Russ (Jun 2, 2016)

Language that is inappropriate for the period really ticks me off.  I came across one last year (from a very successful writer who will remain nameless) that literally made me throw the book out the window.

His MC is talking to the leader of a group of a race that is trying to remain secretive.  The leader of that race says:

"We are trying to stay under the radar."

Instant defenestration.


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## FifthView (Jun 2, 2016)

Russ said:


> "We are trying to stay under the radar."



Ouch.  I don't understand how that got past the editor, even if it was self-edited.


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## Miskatonic (Jun 2, 2016)

Ireth said:


> I have a farm boy (well, man; he's 23) who becomes a vampire at the start of his novel. XD And various other vampires as well.



Vampires have been given a bad reputation in recent years. You just have to do something different with them!


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## Ireth (Jun 2, 2016)

Russ said:


> Language that is inappropriate for the period really ticks me off.  I came across one last year (from a very successful writer who will remain nameless) that literally made me throw the book out the window.
> 
> His MC is talking to the leader of a group of a race that is trying to remain secretive.  The leader of that race says:
> 
> ...



This. So many times this.


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## glutton (Jun 2, 2016)

If one side has a mix of bow and gun users, would it still seem off for the leader to say something like 'fire at will' for all ranged attackers on their side? I ask because my giant hammer wielding, Godzilla-sized monster smashing MC is leading a force that includes archers, gunmen, mechas, and elemental creatures some of which can shoot stuff in my current WIP lol.


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## Guy (Jun 2, 2016)

Miskatonic said:


> Vampires have been given a bad reputation in recent years. You just have to do something different with them!



That's the thing. The stories I've come across, they're always whiny, angsty creatures that somehow manage to have an adolescent personality despite being centuries old. When I was a whiny, angsty adolescent I thought they were desperately cool. Now, as a middle aged man, I just want to smack them. And the thing is, I would love a good vampire story. There's a lot of potential in the character, but it seems like almost every author wants to take this potentially awesome character and turn it into an emo drug addict. It's fairly infuriating.


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## Miskatonic (Jun 3, 2016)

Guy said:


> That's the thing. The stories I've come across, they're always whiny, angsty creatures that somehow manage to have an adolescent personality despite being centuries old. When I was a whiny, angsty adolescent I thought they were desperately cool. Now, as a middle aged man, I just want to smack them. And the thing is, I would love a good vampire story. There's a lot of potential in the character, but it seems like almost every author wants to take this potentially awesome character and turn it into an emo drug addict. It's fairly infuriating.



I'm taking a radically different approach. Basically vampires feed the blood of mortals to trees grown from a special seed that in turn produces fruit they eat to prolong their life. If a mortal tries to eat the fruit it will kill them outright. Mortals given to the trees can be turned into vampires if the proper rites are performed. 

I blame Anne Rice for introducing the melancholy pretty boys that constantly lament their existence.


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