# Incorporating Magic in Science-Fiction



## Super Fun Pop (Jan 20, 2014)

After a few months of world building, concepting, and designing a Hard Sci-Fi universe, I've ran into a few technical problems while attempting to turn it into a Pen & Paper RPG. I didn't think about it at the time, but I'm quickly realizing, that many tropes and mechanics in the average Tabletop RPG rely on more fantastical elements; magic & the arcane, monsters, and other impossibilities in a hard sci-fi universe.

This realization has forced me to choose between making a great game and changing my universe to incorporate these fantastic elements.. or trying and most likely failing to force my current build to work. So, I'll be choosing option one; bridging the gap between genres, tearing down some of my Hard Sci-Fi laws, incorporating magic as well as many other High Fantasy & Tabletop Tropes.  So.. a Space Opera.

My problem is that, though I have a good bit of knowledge about the fantasy genre, I've never worked in it. My current aim is to add the fantasy element, while still really keeping a science fiction feel. Now I'm not talking about explaining away the force with midichlorians... *gag*

More using technology, science, and the like to bring these elements into existence, but my troubles start right here. Using manipulating technology, telekinesis, implants, and genetic training, you can explain away many forms of kenetic magic, but things like Necromancy, Alchemy, & Bloodmagic, I'm having a hard time with... these different types of magic play a big part in the core gameplay of tabletop RPGs. It allows players to have a wide verity of choices for their characters as well as a wide verity of enemies to fight.

I don't mind just saying "it's magic", but for me, it can't be as simple as this, as well as I can't explain it away as the force, as the force exists already, and I'd rather not have a comparison to Star Wars. So I need something and I can't pinpoint it.

There's quite a few other hurdles with merging Science-Fiction and Fantasy, so any help you can provide would be great. I could explain my world, but this already took a while to write, and I don't need help with the actual creation... just with incorporating the mechanics. Thanks for your time, I hope I can get through this and back to writing soon.


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## ThinkerX (Jan 20, 2014)

I'd suggest going the 'Lovecraft' option. Things were sane, science wise, until 'something happened' - maybe somebody's science project took a left turn into the twilight zone, or maybe some explorer opened a door on some other world that should have remained shut.  Anyhow, the result was the introduction of 'magic'.



> but things like Necromancy, Alchemy, & Bloodmagic, I'm having a hard time with... these different types of magic play a big part in the core gameplay of tabletop RPGs.



Depends on just what is possible with these types of magic in your setting.

Necromancy - if animating corpses, maybe some sort of 'zombie virus' or drug?  One injection or what not and the recently deceased shambles back into life for a bit?  if speaking with the dead, same thing, only maybe a machine.

Alchemy?  How does it differ from chemistry?

And what do you mean by 'blood magic'?


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## wordwalker (Jan 20, 2014)

If you have telekinesis (and telepathy and teleportation -- yes, the psionic "Three Ts"), you can apply that to explain almost any magic as specialized forms of manipulating matter, mind, or dimensions respectively. 


Necromancy is telepathy on a residue of the mind left in the brain, maybe linking it with telekinesis to let the zombie walk. 
Alchemy is using tools and such to fine-tune telekinesis into changing chemicals, maybe transmutation. 
Blood magic is controlling a body (or mind) by focusing on its blood-- or using blood as a source of raw energy for other power-workings. 

The rest is what forms these can take, mostly which things they're stronger at and how they're limited-- often the difference between "magic" and "psi" is that magic needs chants, drawn circles, and other limits, while Vader just looks at you and you choke.


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## Svrtnsse (Jan 20, 2014)

My spontaneous reaction after reading the original post is that you're compromising your original vision in order to try to appeal to a larger audience. Yes, the magical and fantastical is common, even dominant(?) among pen and paper RPGs, but I do not believe that it is required in order to create a great setting for gaming in.

That said, it's a really interesting question: how do you add the mystical and fantastical to a hard sci-fi setting without losing the feel? (that's my interpretation of the question)

One question you might want to ask yourself is: What do I want the fantastical and mystical elements of my setting for? What function will they fill and what will people use them for?

Once you have figured that out you're off to a good start. You've narrowed down the focus and you have a target.

---

For just adding strange and mystic things I thought of a few different things:

One option would be to treat "magic" as another form of science. Let it be clearly mapped out - or at least seem like it is. A persons affinity for manipulating magic may be something that is clearly quantifiable and verifiable, just like their weight or their ability to see different colors.
Maybe science finally got advanced enough that it was possible to prove beyond doubt that everyone has a soul and that being able to analyze/manipulate a person's soul in different ways enables them to perform functions they would otherwise not be capable of - like intramolecular particle manipulation on a subatomic level (whatever that means).

Another option would be to go with religion. Gods might actually exist as beings in their own right. Civilization may have come far enough that the gods have seen fit to interact with people on a more personal level and not just as guardians/watchers/etc like they used to. Or maybe the "churches" enslaved the "gods" and are now in charge rather than the other way around.

Or maybe the churches are just really powerful politically and socially due to wealth but don't have any magical/divine powers of any kind. You'd have loads of religious fanatics running around causing all kinds of trouble for no actual benefit.


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## Super Fun Pop (Jan 20, 2014)

ThinkerX said:


> Alchemy?  How does it differ from chemistry?
> 
> And what do you mean by 'blood magic'?



I'm going off of the different classifications of functional magic and trying to make most, if not all possible within my universe.

Main/Functional Magic - Television Tropes & Idioms

I quite like the Lovecraft idea.. maybe some sudden global consciousness where telekinesis and the like are awakened like some sort of next step in evolution... sounds like X-Men though.



wordwalker said:


> If you have telekinesis (and telepathy and teleportation -- yes, the psionic "Three Ts"), you can apply that to explain almost any magic as specialized forms of manipulating matter, mind, or dimensions respectively. .



This was one of my trains of thought, but you've explained it a lot better. I definitely like the idea of using these mind powers to explain the supernatural, but that feels like something that's been done over and over. I guess it's what makes a genre and a trope, but I've had a hard time putting my own spin on it.



Svrtnsse said:


> *My spontaneous reaction after reading the original post is that you're compromising your original vision in order to try to appeal to a larger audience.* Yes, the magical and fantastical is common, even dominant(?) among pen and paper RPGs, but *I do not believe that it is required in order to create a great setting for gaming in.*



For sure and I agree, but at the moment I don't have many things in my world that make up for the lack of magic. There are certain actions and things that are much easier accomplished with magic and though it takes away from my 'origination vision' it allows me to create a more rounded game. The standard holly trinity of classes in RPGs and Tabletop games are the Warrior, Cleric, & Mage; a fourth is usually added called the Thief.. since they all play vital roles in a group, it's pretty important to have the ability to harness the powers of these classes... at the moment I have no laws or rules in my universe glowing for the Mage class to exist. Though I'm sure I can get along without it, it could alienate players or even be game breaking to not include the Mage.. Mages and various types of Mages in tabletop games can harness many different types of magic and though I'm not going to be using them all at once or might not even include any, I'd rather have the ability to include rules and laws that would allow their existence.



Svrtnsse said:


> That said, it's a really interesting question: how do you add the mystical and fantastical to a hard sci-fi setting without losing the feel? (that's my interpretation of the question)
> 
> One question you might want to ask yourself is: What do I want the fantastical and mystical elements of my setting for? What function will they fill and what will people use them for?
> 
> ...



It's a question that's boggled me for a few days lol. Which is why I turned here.

 - I want the elements there to make gameplay more rounded and give players & characters more options on how they want to play.
 - Enchanting Weapons, Solving Puzzles, Harnessing Elements, Summoning Help, Healing, and many other mechanical uses Magic has in the average tabletop game.

I've played quite a few tabletop games where magic doesn't exist, but I'm pretty sure that I can incorporate it rather well, and as well as a few other Fantasy elements I'd like to add, I think it could give it a more unique feel.

That idea you had that I put in bold is pretty much right in line of where I'd want to go. Definitely a big help there.


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## CupofJoe (Jan 21, 2014)

Games Workshop's Warhammer 40K world has Magic and Hard Tech. There is a bit of hand-waving but most of the Magic seems to be tapping in to the chaotic warp to use it's power. A bit like we might use tidal or wind power except wind turbines rarely get taken over by the creatures of chaos... [well not often enough for my liking...]


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## buyjupiter (Jan 21, 2014)

My first thought is that alchemy is the most scientific of all the magical systems out there. The alchemists (including Isaac Newton) were very interested in cataloging things, measuring stuff, and mixing chemicals; basically they were the first scientists.

Necromancy could be a different form of alchemy. Some chemical combination works to raise the dead, another combination works to animate the dead?

I suppose using the same logic, blood magic could be done in the same way. That might make it harder to control unwilling victims, unless you coat some kind of dart/arrow and shoot it at the victim. The downside would be that the character would have to have really good aim. Which could make for some really interesting role playing. 

I personally like approaching the development of magical systems in a scientific manner. Unless your story happens right after the discovery/invention of magic, there are going to be people who are studying it. That means that they're going to be classifying things, experimenting, making rules and laws, etc. (I'm using humans as a baseline here. For truly magical creatures like Fae? I don't know. Which may be why I tend to not write about utterly fantastic creatures.)

In general, I think limiting the types of magic might work in your favor. Trying to resolve all the different types of magic might be a bit like trying to resolve the macroscopic universe with the subatomic. It can be done, but it gets really messy, really quickly. What you have going on might be a bit much for a new pencil-and-paper RPG system. (This is kinda one of my complaints about D&D, too much magic and too easily available.)

That said, I would really, really like to see a hard SF tabletop game. Or a space opera one. (I know that's not what you're asking, but for the next one you design? Please?)


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## Hainted (Jan 21, 2014)

I don't think you need to lose the Hard SF stuff. In fact I would go less "Magic" and more fringe science. Take a look at what futurists are saying tech will be in the next 50 years and extrapolate from that. Mind Reading? they're already working on it,and for a true cyborg implant to work the tech would have to be able to read your mind. Vampires? Science figured out how to halt the ageing process, but the side effects include sensitivity to UV radiation. Zombie? The meat is dead but the malfunctioning tech keeps it upright and moving.

Believe me real science is working on freakier things than any fantasy novelist.


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## Saigonnus (Jan 21, 2014)

I haven't read every single post on the subject, and forgive me if I am simply repeating what others' have said. 

There is little difference between alchemy and chemistry; so call it the latter and you should be fine and still within the realm of science-fiction. 

Necromancy and magic in general could just be a simple chemical reaction within the body and influenced by external forces. A person born on "Planet 16" has no powers when they are at home, but in the blackness of space or on another planet, they could have "magic" due to the lack of the "restrictive" energies that surround their native planet.


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## Feo Takahari (Jan 21, 2014)

I'll let Katie Tiedrich make my point for me:








_Mass Effect_ is very nearly a hard sci-fi universe. It simply introduces _one_ unusual element--the titular mass effect--and it extrapolates one technology after another that all make logical sense as possible uses of this effect. You can do the same with whatever element you introduce, working out its implications as if it were just another scientific principle, and you'll create the same self-consistent feel.


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## Super Fun Pop (Jan 23, 2014)

Feo Takahari said:


> I'll let Katie Tiedrich make my point for me



Somehow this answered everything... 

Thanks everyone, I think instead of going with one approach, I'm just going to sprinkle in a little bit of everything you've all said to give some variation. To really make sure it doesn't look like magic. I wasn't really expecting to resolve this issue, but really, thanks for the help everyone!


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