# Protection against mages in a high magic system



## chicola (Oct 17, 2011)

I am not sure if any of you have read the Aspect emperor book by R Scott Bakker but in his books his mages are not just powerful they are really powerful but the catch is that there are these items (very rare ) called chorias that completely dispel  any magic if it comes into contact with it, furthermore if anyone is touching the choria they are imune to magic as well. the other thing is that if they  as much as touch a mage he turns into salt. SOOO when a mage comes to the battlefield if the enemy has them they will attach it to an arrow and shoot the mage down.

(I hope everyone can understand the concept because there is more to it than that....)

Now my question is that this system has attached itself to my brain and I cannot think of any other way that in a battle the lowly serf would be crasy enough to enlist and not be fried if there were no way to stop the mage or at least to have a chance of stopping him.

Does anyone have any other idea in which you can stop a powerful mage in a high fantasy setting?


the post is a little confusing I know, it is just that I am becoming very frustrated. High magic systems are hard.!!!


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## Ghost (Oct 18, 2011)

There could be a certain material that reflects or absorbs magic. If someone has a silver shield, the spell would ricochet. I suppose it wouldn't be useful in an army since the spell could bounce off your shield and hit your allies. If your shield absorbs magic, it might blow up after so many hits.

It's harder for me to think of anything offensive aside from bonking the wizards on the head. Instead of having a mass of soldiers, perhaps guerrilla warfare and sharpshooters would be a better option. It depends on your magic system. If mages draw energy from the environment around them, there might be something that could overload them. I'm picturing a booby trap or missile that strikes them, completing some sort of magic circuit. They'd be like a lightning rod, attracting so much magical energy it fries them.

I'm curious about what others will come up with.


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## chicola (Oct 18, 2011)

I am not sure about the booby trap ( it is kind of anti climatic too much D&D ) but the environment is something to think about... as a way for the mage to restrict his power.

any other ideas.


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## mythique890 (Oct 18, 2011)

Another mage.  One that is on your side.  

I don't deal much in high fantasy.  Maybe if there was an element that weakened the mage, like copper or lead (or kryptonite ), a smart enemy could stage a battle in an area where that element is abundant so the mage would be out of play or at least much weaker.  Or they could make the soldiers armor/amulets/something out of that element and the magic can't affect them.

I've never tried high magic.  Good luck!


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## Hans (Oct 18, 2011)

Terrestrial mythology is full of materials that hinder magic. Cold iron, salt, rowan, to name a few. In the other hand the fireball throwing mage is not a big topic there.

Time could be a factor. The mage can only use so many spells in a given time. There is an opportunity to rush him in between.
Also there could be a limit in the power he uses.

A good strategy, as said above, is to give the mage a worthy opponent. Better weapons could decide a battle at any time in history and magic is a weapon class here.


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## Amanita (Oct 18, 2011)

I don't really like settings where there's some too obvious and easy mean of fighting the mages. It often seems to simple and I prefer a combination of magic and "counter-magic". And mages that can still be killed by ordinary weapons if their opponent is lucky.

In my own world, both is the case. There are mages on both sides of the conflict and they can also be killed by "normal" weapons. There are plenty of influences between the elements the mages use, the elements their opponents use and those found at the site of the battle. This makes magical fights highly unpredictable in my setting. Therefore, limiting the powers the mages can access also helps. 
Usually, mine don't engage in battle anyway.


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## ScipioSmith (Oct 18, 2011)

Without knowing the specifics of the magic system in question, I'm going to go with archers. Unless the magic system is broken it should be much harder to fire a spell at long range than it is to shoot them with a crossbow or such. As for magic shields, they ought to weaken the more they are needed (like shields in Sci-Fi that weaken with each hit) to preserve tension. 

I have to say I'm less keen on counter-magic, because to my mind it turns the battle into an escalating game of Yugioh, but I'll admit it could be done well; though I haven't seen it yet.


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## Ghost (Oct 18, 2011)

It would help to know what system we're working within, otherwise we're likely to have more misses than hits.


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## Eimingami (Oct 18, 2011)

Ooooo Ooo, I LOVE this. Let's play a game. Mages are uber powerful, there is no "kryptonite" (shame on you mythique ).

How do you kill these guys? What would happen in a "real" world if these oppressors existed?

1. Sex kills. Agents of the opposite sex(or same, whatever) pose as groupies, knife to the throat when the bastard/bitch is sleeping.

2. Good old poisoned food.

3. Capturing one in an inescapable situation and making him enchant weapons for use against his allies (this is my fave -  a whole book on its own, mages have been tyrants for ages, finally one is captured and subdued somehow and now he is the fuel than enables regular ppl to fight back.)

4. A mage slayer! A mage with limited abilities and a common man's heart. His critical flaw is his weak magic but he wields it in such a way that he can get close for a kill.

5. Strength in numbers - reasonably large yet stealthy army/team taking them out one at a time through careful planning and manipulation (mage is lured with a false letter to a remote location where the local mage rulers happen to be away on srs bsns)

6. Dreamwalking, assail the mages with nightmares


Ok I'm out, anyone else?

P.S. If I had a choria I would keep that stuff taped to my chest, no way I would shoot it with an arrow.


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## Ghost (Oct 19, 2011)

Eimingami said:


> P.S. If I had a choria I would keep that stuff taped to my chest, no way I would shoot it with an arrow.



Yeah, especially if it was so rare!


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## Codey Amprim (Oct 20, 2011)

There are plenty, almost endless ideas that people can come up with. But as a future reference, you never want to make something overpowered! If you've ever played an MMO, you'll know where I'm coming from. Everything needs to be balanced one way or another.

On to mages!

With my magic system, mages become weakened by their use of magic as their power is depleted and begins to regenerate. They are also very powerful, but it all comes down to character and their mindset - that's one way you can exploit a mage's weakness. Now, I'm guessing you're talking like an army or battalion of mages compared to my rarity of them... and that comes with a whole new set of problems seeing as theyre so deadly.

Hence your issue.

Hmmmmmm.........

Does long exposure to magic weaken their bodies? their minds?
Are there certain materials that are woven into articles of clothing or armor that are anti-magical (yes, meaning they are magical in their own right, but their power is to reflect magic)
Are there those trained to defeat or control/subdue mages? Think of the Templars in Dragon Age: Origins. These types will silence the mages and nullify their magic, or are highly trained to deal with them.

Mage vs. Mage:

Can mages counter others or combat others without simply blasting them with a fireball? More simply, are there specific means mages can take to counter other mages?
Think of abilities like Counterspelling or Reflecting Spells. Or perhaps a mental shield? Or an arcane shield?

There are endless things you can probably come up with, and everyone else is contributing nicely in my opinion.

Hope I helped!


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## Devor (Oct 23, 2011)

I think there's been some good ideas here, but they mostly seem to be about defeating the mage directly or dampening his ability.  I don't think anyone's addressed the real strategy that might be used to counter an army that's fighting with a mage.

Depending on the magic system, and the size of the conflict, as a general rule the mage can't be everywhere.  In order to take down an impossible weapon, the key strategy would be to do things like distract, confuse, conceal and flank the target.  You might use a decoy army to lure the mage away from your primary target, or you might let your front lines break in order to encourage them to make an arrogant and reckless assault.  As a rule, untrained soldiers cannot help but pursue an enemy they've broken in combat, so if your wizard falls into this category, a feigned retreat might lead them into vulnerable territory.  Divide the mage and his retinue away from the main force and surprise him with a larger assault.

If the warfare is widespread, hit and run tactics could also be effective for a while.  You would strike a location, inflict your damage and withdraw before the mage can arrive on scene.  Another strategy might be to attack - or appear to attack - multiple locations at once, figure out where they end up sending the mage, and then consolidate your army somewhere else.

Of course the solution might be simpler than that.  If the world is truly high-magic, your army might have its own wizard, or an elite fighting force wielding swords of fire and mounted on flying pigs that might be capable of standing up to the mage.

Or there's the easy answer.  The Romans had a ballista that was said to strike a target with sharpshooter accuracy.  It used a set of springs to increase the torsion on the bow.  You could take the wizard out in a single shot, or you could narrowly miss and force him into timid cowardice the entire fight.


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## chicola (Oct 26, 2011)

Actually there are not many mages but they do tip the scales. 

I knew I was not making myself clear, mages against mages is fine but the average soldier he needs to know that there is a chance or he wont rush in. There should be a way that an army without a mage with them could win a struggle against an army with one albeit a smaller one or less experienced.

by the way thanks for the replies my fellow writers. did that sound a bit pretentious on my part ( I haven't written a book yet so...) Well you be the judge of that hehheheheh.

Seriously now, thanks guys a lot to think about.


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## Legendary Sidekick (Oct 26, 2011)

I have a telekinetic character who is one of my more powerful characters, but he is physically weak. I suppose that's typical for a "mage" type. What may be less typical, though not entirely original, is the symptoms seen when he uses his power too much. (Examples: moving an entire airship, or holding back one hundred attackers.) The telekinetic will start to drool profusely, bleed internally, lose control of his bowels... his younger brother, a healer, usually has to save his life in these situations.

I also have some angel characters who can simply resurrect at a church or on holy ground whenever they die. As a result, the archangel tends to be reckless in battle, taking seemingly-foolish risks since death is merely an inconvenience to him. Demon lords instruct their followers to destroy or desecrate the churches in the area they wish to attack.

Demon lords are also powerful creatures in my world, but they are only made powerful by their weak-minded followers and those temped by the sin over which they preside. There is a weapon powerful enough to banish these demon lords to hell. The hard part is actually striking the demon lord with it.

How these may apply to your situation:
Like my telekinetic, your mage could have limitations easily noticed by the enemy.
Like my archangel, your mage may be unstoppable unless the enemy can destroy the source of his seemingly-limitless power, whatever that may be.
Like my demon lord, your mage may be extremely vulnerable to a certain weapon, or type of weapon, or ANY weapon. The hard part is actually hitting a guy who can melt your face off by simply wishing to.


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## Legendary Sidekick (Oct 26, 2011)

Okay... so having taken a better look at your particular situation, I'm assuming this would have to be more of a combat formation kind of deal. I mean, armies would have an attack plan as to how one would rush a high mage.

Example: Foot soldiers charge in to clear a path toward the mage. Men with large shields would stay close to the front line--shields so large that these soldiers cannot wield a weapon. The shields are designed to deflect spells, and also protect the soldiers from the storms of arrows: at the beginning of their charge, again when they break through the enemy front line, and an endless barrage when they are close to the mage. Calvary charge in a la Braveheart and flank from both sides. The mage is overwhelmed by the horsemen from both sides and behind, completely surrounded thanks to the footmen, and the hail of arrows from above leaves him completely trapped. The only thing left for the mage to do in this situation is to kill as many men as he can before he dies with a beam of hellfire, or whatever his trademark kill-lotsa-people spell may be.

As for any hope that the serf may have... it's a matter of luck whether or not he happens to be in the path of the desperate mage's final attack. The only thing that may tip the odds in his favor: the mage would likely go after "more important" targets, such as high-ranking knights on horseback. Or at least that what the knights tell them.


The sharpshooter firing a ballista mentioned by someone else sounds more efficient, unless you think that's too anticlimactic. (I'm not saying it is.)


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## Amanita (Oct 27, 2011)

> but the average soldier he needs to know that there is a chance or he wont rush in.


Not necessarily. I can think of many real life war situations where plenty of soldiers where or are quite prepared to fight against an opponent with much superior weapons technology. Religious fanatism, the belief that the enemy will destroy everything they care about or just ideals of bravery will do that. 
They'd resort to the things they're superior at, such as better knowledge of the terrain and might even stand a chance. If the powerful mage is lured into a trap he didn't see coming, his magic might not help him that much. Extremely powerful weapons will change the course of a war, the classical low-tech battles might not be possible any more, but that doesn't mean there can't be war. 
It also depends on the answer to the question if the magic resembles a few soldiers owning guns while others don't or the magical equivalent of an atomic bomb. In the latter case, such as in the real world, the countries in question might not use it, if both posses it.


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## Hans (Oct 27, 2011)

An overly powerful weapon does not necessarily win a war. Strategy can go a long way.

I know of at least one battle, France against Prussia, where the French had a secret weapon, a very early machine gun prototype. The Prussians only heard of it through intelligence or other means. They did not know exactly, what that weapon could do, but they developed scenarios and different strategies to fight what they had heard about.
The point was, the French kept this weapon so very secret that their generals also did not exactly know what it could do. And only one or two men knew how to handle it. So they had no good strategy how to deploy it.
Prussia won this battle due to better strategy.

Maybe something similar could happen to your mages. In lots of stories mages are very big about keeping secrets.


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