# Critique my cosmos,please.



## Logos&Eidos (Dec 17, 2014)

The cosmos in my WIP is more akin to a gas-giant than our normal reality.  

It is an impossibly immense sphere filled with a silvery white aether. With an empyrean, a continuous eruption realising energy and matter, at the north and south poles.  bizarre flora and fauna swim and float about the aetherial sea. This cosmos was layers that were in part inspired by the oceanic zones;light,twilight, abyss/chthonian and the rift.

The light zone is where people live it is the most "normal" from our point of view. 

the twilight is where things begin to get wired.  reality starts to exhibit dream logic and the environment becomes mildly psychoreactive. Gravity  increase and there is a constant pressure on the mind and body.

 The abyss zone is an alien place. dream logic supersedes material logic and the environment is completely psychoreactive. Gravity at this point is implosive and even with gravity shielding a person would still dissolve as their physical and spiritual selves are forced together.

The rift is as far down as one can get,an unhealing wound in the fabric of the cosmos that marks the point where the physical and spiritual aspects of reality where separated.


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## WooHooMan (Dec 17, 2014)

Cosmology has to be one of the most underused aspects of worldbuilding.

Anyways, your cosmos good.  I'd be interested in knowing more about it.
I'm having some trouble picturing it - I'm just thinking of it like the ocean: civilization on the surface and more dangerous as you go deeper.  If that's the case, I don't understand how life can thrive on the surface of an "impossibly immense sphere" but I may be over-thinking it.
I really like the idea of the laws of reality changing as you move spacial.  You could build an entire setting around that one concept.


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## Logos&Eidos (Dec 17, 2014)

WooHooMan said:


> Cosmology has to be one of the most underused aspects of worldbuilding.
> 
> Anyways, your cosmos good.  I'd be interested in knowing more about it.
> I'm having some trouble picturing it - I'm just thinking of it like the ocean: civilization on the surface and more dangerous as you go deeper.  If that's the case, I don't understand how life can thrive on the surface of an "impossibly immense sphere" but I may be over-thinking it.
> I really like the idea of the laws of reality changing as you move spacial.  You could build an entire setting around that one concept.



First the cosmos isn't natural, it's also very young only sixty thousand years. Reality used to be very different than it is now, in the before time there was no physical and spiritual only whole. Dream logic ruled and symbolism was a real as the ground beneath your feet. The prior iterations of the mortal races lived their lives under constant siege for they where not the apex species. The apex race called themselves The Ma and their lead was the Maoh,the mortals called them demons. The Ma at best treated their weaker neighbors as pets and at worst a food source.

The mortals were in a loosing battle, so they employed a desperate plan, the feuding of the old and new gods was causing reality fission. The mortal happened to realize that while they could survive in theses alien regions the demons could not. So they fashioned a device, the single most powerful piece of magitech ever built. And they took it to the site of the most sever fissure and activated it. Reality divided into physical and spiritual and folding into it's current form;that of an aether filled sphere. The mortals had braced their territories against the shock that was to come from splinting the cosmos;these territories became massive island like realms;each one it's own distinct reality. 

I imagine that the cosmos is like a layered  MÃ¶bius strip, there is no visible  top or bottom just an endless expenses. However go to far up or down and you'll hit the threshold, membrane between the realms.


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## WooHooMan (Dec 17, 2014)

Logos&Eidos said:


> First the cosmos isn't natural, it's also very young only sixty thousand years. Reality used to be very different than it is now, in the before time there was no physical and spiritual only whole. Dream logic ruled and symbolism was a real as the ground beneath your feet. The prior iterations of the mortal races lived their lives under constant siege for they where not the apex species. The apex race called themselves The Ma and their lead was the Maoh,the mortals called them demons. The Ma at best treated their weaker neighbors as pets and at worst a food source.
> 
> The mortals were in a loosing battle, so they employed a desperate plan, the feuding of the old and new gods was causing reality fission. The mortal happened to realize that while they could survive in theses alien regions the demons could not. So they fashioned a device, the single most powerful piece of magitech ever built. And they took it to the site of the most sever fissure and activated it. Reality divided into physical and spiritual and folding into it's current form;that of an aether filled sphere. The mortals had braced their territories against the shock that was to come from splinting the cosmos;these territories became massive island like realms;each one it's own distinct reality.



I think I find your cosmos far less interesting now that you've told me all this.  Sometimes less is more.
Or maybe I'd find all this more interesting if it was revealed gradual over a story rather than summarized in a forum post.  I don't know, something about all this isn't sitting well with me - it's probably a personal preference thing.



Logos&Eidos said:


> I imagine that the cosmos is like a layered  MÃ¶bius strip, there is no visible  top or bottom just an endless expenses. However go to far up or down and you'll hit the threshold, membrane between the realms.



I think I get what you're going for.  Pretty cool but I'd need to see a society in action in this place before I can say I'm for or against it.
Neat idea, either way


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## 2WayParadox (Dec 17, 2014)

From what I've read, I don't think I would start from the concept of a gas giant. No matter what you say, no life is possible on a gas giant. There's no solids, there's crushing gravity and say you do have some floating islands, they would be drawn in and crushed or they would need to be shielded by something powerful to both make it possible to sustain human life AND keep the island from being sucked in and crushed. This would also mean that any travel between islands short of teleportation would be virtually impossible.

The concept's fine, albeit somewhat vague and ethereal. But I get the feeling you're aiming for a society akin to Ursula le Guin's Earhsea, with groups of people isolated on islands. Is there no way for you to recast your idea in another shape that will make things easier for you?


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## Mythopoet (Dec 17, 2014)

WooHooMan said:


> Cosmology has to be one of the most underused aspects of worldbuilding.



I was just thinking on this today. I've encountered so few fantasy writers that build their universe from the "ground" up. Most seem to use our own universe and its natural laws as their foundation before deciding which specific areas to adjust. Almost no one thinks of their worlds as anything other than planets in our universe anymore. It's very refreshing to see someone creating a world on such different terms. It's what I like to do as well. 



2WayParadox said:


> From what I've read, I don't think I would start from the concept of a gas giant. No matter what you say, no life is possible on a gas giant.



I don't think he's saying it's actually like a gas giant, but instead saying thinking of a gas giant might be the easiest way to begin visualizing it. 




2WayParadox said:


> The concept's fine, albeit somewhat vague and ethereal.



This may be the only problem. It's going to be difficult for most readers to wrap their heads around your cosmos. You'll need to come up with some clearer way of explaining it that's easy to visualize or some good analogy that will help readers understand it. That is if you intend to explain it at all in your stories.


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## 2WayParadox (Dec 17, 2014)

I'm not sure, he refers to gravity multiple times


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## Logos&Eidos (Dec 17, 2014)

WooHooMan said:


> I think I find your cosmos far less interesting now that you've told me all this.  Sometimes less is more.
> Or maybe I'd find all this more interesting if it was revealed gradual over a story rather than summarized in a forum post.  I don't know, something about all this isn't sitting well with me - it's probably a personal preference thing.
> 
> 
> ...



Well people are people,even when living in on firmament surrounded island-realms which drift about an aether filled cosmos shaped like a MÃ¶bius strip.  Much of their culture involves flying out into the aether harvest material that are or nonexistent with in the islands. Studying the aether born flora and fauna, and fighting off the large and dangerous on.  Expeditions to the twilight layer. Warfare,trade and inter island tourism.

All these people have a shared history of fighting against the demons, that struggle will always make for common ground. The demons Also didn't stop being a threat with the sundering.



Mythopoet said:


> I was just thinking on this today. I've encountered so few fantasy writers that build their universe from the "ground" up. Most seem to use our own universe and its natural laws as their foundation before deciding which specific areas to adjust. Almost no one thinks of their worlds as anything other than planets in our universe anymore. It's very refreshing to see someone creating a world on such different terms. It's what I like to do as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



From the point of the few of the inhabitants the cosmos seems like and endless silvery nebula.



2WayParadox said:


> From what I've read, I don't think I would start from the concept of a gas giant. No matter what you say, no life is possible on a gas giant. There's no solids, there's crushing gravity and say you do have some floating islands, they would be drawn in and crushed or they would need to be shielded by something powerful to both make it possible to sustain human life AND keep the island from being sucked in and crushed. This would also mean that any travel between islands short of teleportation would be virtually impossible.
> 
> The concept's fine, albeit somewhat vague and ethereal. But I get the feeling you're aiming for a society akin to Ursula le Guin's Earhsea, with groups of people isolated on islands. Is there no way for you to recast your idea in another shape that will make things easier for you?



Well the gas-giant thing is something of analogy, the best one that I could think of at the time. Imagine a silvery nebula, that's what the inhabitants see. There is no visible floor sealing to the cosmos the, it's just aether as far as the eye can sea; thus MÃ¶bius strip. As for being drawn into the lower levels it's possible. There is a safe "altitude/depth" that's where the everything normal lives.

Travel is handled by getting on a ship and flying beyond the firmament of your island, the clouds peal away then "woosh!" your in the aether. Some bolder or crazier individuals travel by tamed aether beast.  When it comes to long range travel,I'm at something of a loss.  There is definitely going to be some magitech analog to the warp drive,coasting along on wave of spiritual power. But I'd also want a natural means of fast travel, jumps point, sub space, currents of something like  SpellJamer's phlogiston,  a twisting-way inspired/ pilfered from Andromeda's slipstream.

Next The Gods, and why begins of phenomenal actually care about having worshiper.


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## 2WayParadox (Dec 17, 2014)

What I'm comparing it to right now is a miniature stellar nursery (look up a picture, should be quicker)
That's fine, I can see you people living on protected remains of a planet that was blown up, do remember that people who were on that planet while it broke up are dead unless you do some good work justifying how they survived and also, if they have space travel why would stay on a ruined remain of a planet instead of moving shop? Your magitech sounds pretty powerful
But when you talk about riding a tamed aether beast through the aether, there's many issues that come to mind. there's no food in the either, so it's got to either feed on minerals or consists of gas or energy
I'm guessing your answer to my next objection is 'magitech' but people can't breathe in space, nor can they withstand the temperature, the radiation etc. (there are over 10000 parts in a spacesuit, that many parts are necessary to keep a human alive in space)


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## Logos&Eidos (Dec 18, 2014)

2WayParadox said:


> What I'm comparing it to right now is a miniature stellar nursery (look up a picture, should be quicker)
> That's fine, I can see you people living on protected remains of a planet that was blown up, do remember that people who were on that planet while it broke up are dead unless you do some good work justifying how they survived and also, if they have space travel why would stay on a ruined remain of a planet instead of moving shop? Your magitech sounds pretty powerful
> But when you talk about riding a tamed aether beast through the aether, there's many issues that come to mind. there's no food in the either, so it's got to either feed on minerals or consists of gas or energy
> I'm guessing your answer to my next objection is 'magitech' but people can't breathe in space, nor can they withstand the temperature, the radiation etc. (there are over 10000 parts in a spacesuit, that many parts are necessary to keep a human alive in space)




The sundering wasn't just cracking a planet,it was an act of shattering the prior cosmos. The island realms are essentially pocket dimensions, self contained slices of reality.   There is an entire ecosystem in the aether, the empyrean which are the poles of the cosmos release matter as well as energy.  

As for protecting people exposed to aether,  their mundane tech can accomplish this. though if for no other reason that coolness, the environmental suites are lot less bulky than what we have to use now.


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## 2WayParadox (Dec 18, 2014)

is it necessary to state that the entire cosmos is changed? Are you going to use that much space? I s your sundering as powerful as the big bang?


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## Logos&Eidos (Dec 18, 2014)

2WayParadox said:


> is it necessary to state that the entire cosmos is changed? Are you going to use that much space? I s your sundering as powerful as the big bang?




Yes the entire state of the cosmos had to change, a military victory against the demons was impossible.  So the peoples risked the entire cosmos just to be free. The Sundering wasn't anywhere near as powerful as the big bang, it worked by exploiting an already comprised area to force a cascade reaction that separated reality into physical and spiritual. In the process creating conditions that demons could not survive assuming that the splitting didn't kill them outright.

Thinking about it the cosmos should be filled with untold billions of tons of debris.


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## 2WayParadox (Dec 18, 2014)

that's why I mentioned the big bang, if it's something that influenced the entire universe, then the amount of energy needed to set it of is of an unimaginable scale. Perhaps if demons are linked to humanity somehow, you can restrict them to a smaller space and the issue becomes moot


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## Logos&Eidos (Dec 18, 2014)

2WayParadox said:


> that's why I mentioned the big bang, if it's something that influenced the entire universe, then the amount of energy needed to set it of is of an unimaginable scale. Perhaps if demons are linked to humanity somehow, you can restrict them to a smaller space and the issue becomes moot



Allot of settings have separate physical and spiritual aspects of reality, perhaps even a separate physical and spirit worlds;and a mythical time when all was one far removed from the present day. Not only did I want to explain the split i set it with in the living memory of all the mortal races. The Old Gods and the New Gods were fighting viciously this compromised the "wholeness" of the cosmos. All the mortals did was exploit a preexisting weakness to cause a full separation, there isn't a good analogy for what was done;perhaps a series of sour notes that spoiled the cosmoses harmony.


The Demons were native to the most tumultuous inhospitable and predator filled regions of the before-time(needs a cooler). Which is why they evolved( assuming evolution can be applied to a reality that operated on dream-logic) to be so very formidable. In terms of abilities the Demons are quite vampire in nature, they can ingest but don't need solid food, their main sustenance is the life and psychic energies of other begins. they can shape shift,and are more efficient utilizers of magic. They have access to a form of asexual reproduction by converting compatible lifeforms into themselves. Once the Demons migrated to more hospitable regions removed of the dangers that kept them in check, they quickly began to dominate everything.


The area important to the story is probably quite small perhaps around the size of the nBSG's Cyrannus Ssystem.


Now onto Fate after life and the Gods.

In both before-time and the present a great current of spiritual power flowed through the cosmos. Shaping reality as it went,this shaping by the Grand-Stream is perceived by the sapients as fate. The Gods were the first distinct patterns to emerge from the Grand-Stream and they existed above it. Being both immensely powerful and the first sapient life the gods left a permanent impression on the Grand-stream, which is in part responsible for historical recurrence. The Gods eventual came to desire to touch the lower planes but couldn't cross the Grand-Stream they were just to massive. So they broke off pieces of themselves and hurled those across the grand-stream, these were the first mortal souls. The mortal souls merged with the life stream after death and could somehow capture droplets of the Grand-stream to create more souls;which was a great shock to the gods.

While the grand-stream shapes the cosmos, souls also exert a pull on it, meaning that to a degree people literally are making their own fate. The aggregate influence of billions of souls has a rather noticeable effect.  This influence is part of why the gods began to care about mortals something other than an Avatar through they could experience the planes.  While on the surface of the grand-stream the gods are by no means outside it. Politics was also a factor,mortals could feel if subconsciously the gods touch upon the grand-stream. They also found out that by acting in harmony with a given god was in many ways beneficial for them. The Gods noticed that the more souls were on their particular wavelength the more powerful they became,this lead to the gods competing among themselves for more mortal attention;however this was not the beginning of the war.


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## WooHooMan (Dec 18, 2014)

Could you summarize all this?  Like what's the elevator pitch?
I'm all about high concept stuff.  My rule of thumb is that if the basics of a setting or a story can't be neatly summarized, then I'm not interested.


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## Logos&Eidos (Dec 18, 2014)

WooHooMan said:


> Could you summarize all this?  Like what's the elevator pitch?
> I'm all about high concept stuff.  My rule of thumb is that if the basics of a setting or a story can't be neatly summarized, then I'm not interested.



This is Skies Of Arcadia meets Blazblue meets Mass Effect. A Science Fantasy epic set set in an endless silver sea. The ruins of the old cosmos drift by on aetherial currents, a cosmos sundered by hands of ancestors of people that call the silver sea home.


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## WooHooMan (Dec 18, 2014)

Logos&Eidos said:


> This is Skies Of Arcadia meets Blazblue meets Mass Effect. A Science Fantasy epic set set in an endless silver sea. The ruins of the old cosmos drift by on aetherial currents, a cosmos sundered by hands of ancestors of people that call the silver sea home.



Ok, I think I'm on board


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## Nimue (Dec 18, 2014)

This is a really fascinating concept, but I feel like I still can't quite grasp what a story set in this reality would be like.  How much do the humans know about the nature and origin of the aether?  Any chance of a short story or snippet from this setting?


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## Logos&Eidos (Dec 19, 2014)

Nimue said:


> This is a really fascinating concept, but I feel like I still can't quite grasp what a story set in this reality would be like.  How much do the humans know about the nature and origin of the aether?  Any chance of a short story or snippet from this setting?



Well not being able to readily grasp means I've done something different, it's also...problematic because I can't sell the people on the setting;i'm going to work on that.  How much do the mortal races know about their past and the cosmos. In defiance of the "mysterious myth shrouded past" trope they are quite aware that their ancestors shattered the cosmos as a final gambit to be free of the demons; which didn't work as well as they'd hoped.

 Reality's split was not an even one, some small part of the cosmos remained unified and fell into a highly elongated orbit around the current cosmos. Coming into alignment once age,ten thousand years, so from the chthonian depth the demon horde would rise in a great campaign to get revenge on the mortals for the single greatest act of destruction and mass murder beffore history; they also kinda want their pets slash favorite midnight snacks back. This has happened six times so far since the sundering, each time civilization had been devastated and had rebuild. 

in my current notes the fifth demon war was the last,because the demons were supposed to have translated their world into the current cosmos thus no more cycle; now I'm not so sure.

 As for stories even short ones,I regretfully must say no, the story that I've begun to outline is supposed to be this grand epic multiveral adventure. Heck all the stories in my head wind up being big.





WooHooMan said:


> Ok, I think I'm on board



Maybe I should have thrown in Outlaw Star?


Part of my goal in the world-building was to be able to explain many of the things that are simply taken for granted in other settings. As well as seamlessly incorporating s many of the ideas and concepts that I find cool.

What started the War of the Gods was one mortal ascending to  divinity and seeing that the Gods were just a bunch of scheming politicians and deciding that they had to be dealt with.


Here I actually need a bit of help, not counting the natural abilities of the demons there are about three magic systems in this world.

The Inner Path which is about perfecting the mind and body, which contains Ki/Psy abilities.

 Magecraft which was a form of elementalism,only now I realise that I get so much more flavor if Aether is the only element; which means that the substance of the silver sea need a new name,  pneuma is best alternative. Besides I wanted magic to closer in terms of feel to psionics.


 The last is divine magic which is where I need the help since I'm not sire if what I have doing is enough. The blessing of the gods, is an intuitive grasp of things related to that god and good luck which is especially strong when acting in alignment with the god's nature.


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