# The Land of Day and Night, a physically impossible world.



## Sander (Jul 3, 2013)

Never let logic get in the way of a good story I've once been told. Using that mantra I've created a world that does not make sense physically. Perhaps a bit too much so. The idea is that part of the world is shrouded in constant darkness, while another part is shrouded in constant daylight. Most of the story takes place in the land in between those, which has a normal day/night cycle, but I enjoyed the implications of having a world where the night does not end or begin.

*The Dark Land*

The Dark Land, also known as Darmor or the Land of Night, is shrouded in constant darkness. It is a land where fire has become a holy thing. The only light in their world. I had already established a group of mages capable of creating fire, so in this world they are priests known as Daybringers.

The reason they have a great purpose is because they allow the Darmorians to fight off the Nightlings, creatures who dwell within the darkness and have grown accustom to it. They are spooked by the light and for some it is the only way to kill them.

A Darmorian day starts at "Lightsky" which is when the sun is right under the horizon (the highest point it'll ever get in Darmor) and discolours the sky to a sort of dark blue. Because crops need the sun, their culture is based on hunting and in time they have also developed carnivorous features (like teeth that are designed to tear meat, and eyes that light up in the dark).

The humans of Darmor only eat meat and are even cannibalistic in nature. They eat their dead (unless they did of sickness). Because many people cannot survive in the harsh conditions of the land, murder is considered a grave sin (in fact it is taboo to even harm a fellow human). 

The Nightbringers are an order of the church that have one purpose: to kill people. They are the only ones allowed to harm humans, and their life is one of sin and repenting. For each life they take they carve a line in their arms, which becomes a scar, a reminder of what they did. Nightbringers are executioners and mercy-killers, and are honoured upon their death by being given a grave.

*The Day Land* 

Here's where I'll need some help. Developing the Dark-Land was a priority of mine as I have a POV character in that setting. I have given some thought at how a constant day would influence the location.

Sleep and night are naturally tied for humans as the darkness urges us to take shelter. In the same sense the Day Landers would sleep less, and they'd have to have heavy drapes to keep the sunlight out. They'd have less a concept of time, sleeping when it is necessary, not when it is expected. Therefore I could imagine the land being extremely productive with people able to work at all times.

So my question is:

What do you think of my concept for the Darklanders? Does it sound like an interesting culture? Do you have any suggestions?

What about the logic behind this, is this type of world possible? If not, is it "okay" to do this because "it's cool"? I know there are certain regions of the world that have 24h nights/days depending on how close they are to a solstice, but having it throughout the year seems slightly impossible. 

What about a constant day? How would it influence the people living in that world? What kind of rituals could they have based on the fact that the sun doesn't set?


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## Aosto (Jul 3, 2013)

I think the idea could work, if written well. Personally, it's not something I could get into. The dark land natives seem they would be a savage type, of savage mind. Probably not lending much in the way of character, unless you wrote it very very well. Also, people will ask questions, they will always try to relate it to our world regardless. How can one survive on meat alone? Maybe come up with some fruit's or vegetables that have also adapted to the lack of sun that grow only in the moonlight, but wither in the sunlight. 

A thought would be to make this part of your harvest and have one 'day' a year where the sun does cast it's rays on the dark land. The natives having to harvest before this day or the crop will be a loss. 

As for the Day land, I assume they would have some sense of time. If the 'in between' has a 'normal cycle' then that tells me the sun rises and sets on the land. There would be a point during morning and night where the sun was on the horizon and moved through the sky as normal. I don't imagine though that the sun would ever be directly overhead with the dynamics of how the sun rises and falls. 

I'm not 100% knowledgeable in that area, so I suggest researching the day/night cycle of our own poles and use that as a reference. The tilt on one hemisphere could be just enough to not allow the sun to break the horizon on the dark land and not set on the day land...maybe.


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## Aosto (Jul 3, 2013)

Here you are.
Alfred Wegener Institute for Polar and Marine Research (AWI) Polar day and polar night


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## C Hollis (Jul 3, 2013)

> Never let logic get in the way of a good story I've once been told. Using that mantra I've created a world that does not make sense physically. Perhaps a bit too much so. The idea is that part of the world is shrouded in constant darkness, while another part is shrouded in constant daylight. Most of the story takes place in the land in between those, which has a normal day/night cycle, but I enjoyed the implications of having a world where the night does not end or begin.



They have actually found worlds they believe are like this, except for the part that has a normal day/night cycle.  That band around those planets are in perpetual twilight.  Basically, they theorized that the "Twilight Zone" (couldn't resist), was the only habitable part of the planet.  The perpetual daylight side was too hot, while the perpetual night side was too cold.


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## Steerpike (Jul 3, 2013)

Yeah, there are real planets that correspond to this. It used to be thought that the planet Mercury was this way, but it turns out that it goes through a day/night cycle of something like two years (Mercury years, that is).

I have a story set in such a world, except the band around the planet is called the Twilight Lands, instead of the Twilight Zone


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## Ireth (Jul 3, 2013)

Aosto said:


> The dark land natives seem they would be a savage type, of savage mind.



The OP did say that the Darklanders have a taboo against harming fellow humans, which I think would offset the savagery you associate with them. Except for those guys whose religion revolves around killing.


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## Aosto (Jul 3, 2013)

Well, I mean savage in the lightest of terms. Uncivilized types so-to-speak. Not the savage beasts of murder and death that one generally associates with the word. It's more a personal opinion, I doubt I could read a book about nomadic tribes. If, however, they are civilized then that would be understandable.


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## TWErvin2 (Jul 3, 2013)

Like Steerpike said, a planet that revolves around its sun where one side is always facing.

There is a problem to consider...hunting? What will be hunted? What animals would live in the darkness if there were no plant life/herbivores? Even fungus such as mushroom have to live off of something. I guess you could devise a volcanic region where heat and sulfurous water spewed forth provides the 'energy' and nourishment for some sort of base flora.

One might consider that some hunters would live along the fringes of the light area, and proceed into it for prey.

Also consider the lifestyle and such for creatures and beings that live where it is always light. Consider the logical stagnant weather patterns without the heating and cooling of day and night. I guess tides with a moon and the oval pattern of the planet's path around its sun could offer seasons and some change.

These are just a few things I think you'd have to consider when creating the world and cultures and animals and plant life, etc.
Yes, I know the title of this thread talks about a physically impossible world, but there is a balance, where if you throw too much at a reader, the suspension of disbelief, because it just isn't 'logical' or doesn't stand up to even the surface of scrutiny, you risk losing the reader. Sure, one can argue that they accept magic in fantasy, why not this? There just has to be something plausible that the reader will say, "Okay, I'll by that."  But for example, predators in darkness, what do they prey upon? Something has got to be there for them, if that makes sense.


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## Creed (Jul 3, 2013)

For the dark side of your planet you might want to consider looking at cave dwellers.*At the bottom of the food chain are usually plants, but in darkness this isn't all that likely. NOTE: not all plants require light to grow, there are some species that have evolved past that.
Fungus was mentioned, but they are decomposers and require dead materials to feed off of.
Bacteria colonies are probably your best bet, as they don't require light. You could have protist colonies instead, which form algae here on Earth. Weird lichen works, too. Then you can have fungi off of these.
Then think troglodytes and crustaceans who eat this stuff, and bigger things that eat them, and at the top you have you night-adapted humans.
If it's really cold in the Nightlands (it would be, but the details are up to you) then most creatures will have really good circulation and fat stores (like turtles) or be covered in fur.
A major question you'll need to answer is about water. In the Daylands it may be too hot for the water to remain in a liquid state, and in the Nightlands it may be too cold for it to remain liquid. The ocean is and always has been a major source of food, and if water evaporates off of it then rain is possible, and some simple weather patterns. Also, take into account the creatures that live in it. Research deep sea creatures- the ones in the extremely cold and the ones by the boiling heat vents.


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## Sander (Jul 3, 2013)

Woah! Many responses, so let me go through them one by one and answer some questions. 



> I think the idea could work, if written well. Personally, it's not something I could get into. The dark land natives seem they would be a savage type, of savage mind. Probably not lending much in the way of character, unless you wrote it very very well. Also, people will ask questions, they will always try to relate it to our world regardless. How can one survive on meat alone? Maybe come up with some fruit's or vegetables that have also adapted to the lack of sun that grow only in the moonlight, but wither in the sunlight.



I disagree on your statement of savagery, but I see your point. It's true that these would be people who have developed slower on certain fields. However, in this harsh setting they would have no choice but to resort to bonding with fellow humans. There would be a huge drive to preserve oneself, as I see the humans as outnumbered in this type of world. The Darklanders are not exactly human, which could vouch for them surviving on meat alone. They are carnivorous and can't even digest most "green" food. I do enjoy the idea of having a "Day of Light" and certain fruits and vegetables that grow in the dark. I think that could help explain how they get certain nutrients. My world also has large amounts of magic, and this could help explain how they stave alive in this type of world.



> As for the Day land, I assume they would have some sense of time. If the 'in between' has a 'normal cycle' then that tells me the sun rises and sets on the land. There would be a point during morning and night where the sun was on the horizon and moved through the sky as normal. I don't imagine though that the sun would ever be directly overhead with the dynamics of how the sun rises and falls.



Yes, exactly. That's why I mentioned Lightsky. In the Darklands the sun would sometimes be on the edge of "dawn", causing the sky to discolour. Similarly I expect the Daylight to have a sunset, the sun would just never actually set. This is quite common Arctic and Antarctic regions of our world. 



> They have actually found worlds they believe are like this, except for the part that has a normal day/night cycle. That band around those planets are in perpetual twilight. Basically, they theorized that the "Twilight Zone" (couldn't resist), was the only habitable part of the planet. The perpetual daylight side was too hot, while the perpetual night side was too cold.


I'm going to agree that I'm assuming that in a real world situation, the dark and light areas wouldn't be habitable in a long-term situation. Short term, it would be similar to just the day or the night. My world would also involve magic, which could explain how humans actually survive there. It would also involve non-human races evolved to actually handle those conditions (like the Darklanders which I have mentioned). 



> There is a problem to consider...hunting? What will be hunted? What animals would live in the darkness if there were no plant life/herbivores? Even fungus such as mushroom have to live off of something. I guess you could devise a volcanic region where heat and sulfurous water spewed forth provides the 'energy' and nourishment for some sort of base flora.



You make a very good point and I think that I'll have to take the advice already given and create certain plants that are capable of growing without light. The Darklanders can't digest plants, which is why they are bound to hunting. I've created several creatures to live in this world, but in the end I'll need a lot of plantlife as well. 



> These are just a few things I think you'd have to consider when creating the world and cultures and animals and plant life, etc.
> Yes, I know the title of this thread talks about a physically impossible world, but there is a balance, where if you throw too much at a reader, the suspension of disbelief, because it just isn't 'logical' or doesn't stand up to even the surface of scrutiny, you risk losing the reader. Sure, one can argue that they accept magic in fantasy, why not this? There just has to be something plausible that the reader will say, "Okay, I'll by that." But for example, predators in darkness, what do they prey upon? Something has got to be there for them, if that makes sense.



Oh I agree. I think some aspects of a world are allowed to not make sense, but you have to counterbalance it with great realism. I'm trying to create as much realism and I'll have to think about which kind of plants would grow in a world, which animals would feed on these plants and how humans would adapt to this. Magic is one tool for them, but they cannot depend on it.


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## Valentinator (Jul 3, 2013)

I don't if you want to consider laws of physics, but two sides of your world must be really different in terms of temepature which causes huge difference in atmospheric pressure. That in turn must result in STRONG winds in a twilight zone.


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## Trick (Jul 3, 2013)

Read Jack of Shadows by Roger Zelazny. It's not precisely the same as your concept (there is no area with a regular day/night cycle, only constant night and day sides of the planet). Supposedly, Zelazny wrote it in one sitting and as you can imagine, it's not as thoroughly detailed as what you are trying to achieve but I think it may help you establish some things. For instance, the night side has magic and the day side has technology (albeit 70s technology due to when the book was written). You can find PDFs of it online. I would not normally advise that but it was only published in one printing in the 1970s and it took me three years to get a copy. They sometimes go for upwards of $200 and I was lucky enough to get it for chump change but, as I said, it took quite a while to find a copy.

The next thing I would say echoes previous comments; do the astronomical research (I think that's the first time I've used that word literally). Find out how different planets behave and try to base it off of that reality to some extent. Just off the top of my head, if a planet rotated on it's axis 30 degrees one way and then 30 degrees back the other way as it revolved around the sun, you would acheive permanent darkness on one side, permanent light on the other and an area in between that had a day/night cycle though you'll have to do the math to figure out how long each period would be. The size of the planet and the number of back and forth turns per revolution would affect all of that.  

You may also want to consider that the part of the planet closest to the sun would be burned to nothing so people would live far away from it and the same goes for the point farthest from the sun except it would be the most severe kind of frozen tundra you could imagine. 

I have a similar idea for a story and would be quite interested in hashing this out with you further. Not to worry, our ideas are significantly different in storyline but both involve planets that move differently than earth creating odd day/night cycles.

EDIT: I actually think I could put together a CAD 3D model of the planet for you if you're interested. (I'm in mechanical design and have access to some great 3D CAD programs)


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## Sander (Jul 3, 2013)

Valentinator said:


> I don't if you want to consider laws of physics, but two sides of your world must be really different in terms of temepature which causes huge difference in atmospheric pressure. That in turn must result in STRONG winds in a twilight zone.



Strong winds are actually a reason I want to add this, I need a reason for strong currents.


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## MumboJumbo (Jul 3, 2013)

I like your idea, settings like this are always really interesting but might prove a bit of a pain in the arse when worldbuilding! 
What are the human settlements like? Are there great big cities in the day/night lands or is the population spread out into tribes like a primeval world? When I read about your daylands i instantly thought of the luke skywalker/anakin home world where people live underground: a land where the sun always shines would almost certainly just be a great expanse of desert, and cities in this setting would be a bit unbelieveable unless they were mostly built underground.
Plants (or bacteria) that survive without sunlight is totally believable. I've had some ideas about this myself: fungi and other plants could live off minerals or strong elements in the soil and form the basis for your ecosystems. 
I also think that the twilight area would be the best setting for larger human settlements, however i guess if you are getting creative with magic this may not be the case. Mages with fire especially makes the dark land a far more believable place for survival. Would the mages be like tribal/village leaders or, if part of a church, like priests?
Sorry if ive bombarded you with questions/ideas..


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## Sander (Jul 3, 2013)

> What are the human settlements like? Are there great big cities in the day/night lands or is the population spread out into tribes like a primeval world?



In the Night-Lands we have mostly a few large cities which are ruled by the Sun-Wielders (they are the Leaders of the Daybringers). They provide the cities with artificial sunlight and allow the people to survive. There are nomads who travel from the cities through the darkness to the Fringelands (on the edge of the darkness). These live in settlements that can be packed up easily. A few mining villages also exist in darkness, though a Daybringer is sent there to provide people with light.

There are a few who live in the darkness willingly, mostly because they do not like the rules of the Church (ie. the no-kill rule). 



> When I read about your daylands i instantly thought of the luke skywalker/anakin home world where people live underground: a land where the sun always shines would almost certainly just be a great expanse of desert, and cities in this setting would be a bit unbelieveable unless they were mostly built underground.



I honestly have not come up with a concept for my Daylands. They are the logical consequence of having a "Dark side". Your idea seems intriguing though. They would seek the coolness of the earth. I believe the Daylands to be a generally uninhabited place, though I do have a race of Firegiants who become more powerful in the heat, they would choose to live there. 



> Plants (or bacteria) that survive without sunlight is totally believable. I've had some ideas about this myself: fungi and other plants could live off minerals or strong elements in the soil and form the basis for your ecosystems.



In the Darklands I think I'll have to focus on fungi to allow an ecosystem to exist. It seems like it would be vital for humans to survive.



> I also think that the twilight area would be the best setting for larger human settlements, however i guess if you are getting creative with magic this may not be the case. Mages with fire especially makes the dark land a far more believable place for survival. Would the mages be like tribal/village leaders or, if part of a church, like priests?



The Twilight lands are the main setting and are the majority of the world. The Night and Day-lands are small areas at the edge of the world. Because a believe of attacks coming from across the sea, humans have settlements on the edge of the world. The Dawnguard and the Duskknights. 

The Daybringers are Fire Mages. They are part of the Church of Light. They are not considered leaders, but are respected and treated as "superior".


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## Trick (Jul 3, 2013)

Sander said:


> The Twilight lands are the main setting and are the majority of the world. The Night and Day-lands are small areas at the edge of the world. Because a believe of attacks coming from across the sea, humans have settlements on the edge of the world. The Dawnguard and the Duskknights.



In that case, referring to my above post, a 30 degree back and forth rotation of the planet may not be enough. More like 50 - 80 degrees, which would give you a larger Twilight area and smaller permanent day/night areas. 

Man, I really like your idea. It's sounds like a lot of world building but pulling it off would be so worthwhile. Good luck!


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## Sander (Jul 3, 2013)

I've been worldbuilding for a while and it just sounded like a great way to add to the world. The actually angle of the world isn't exactly important to my world. There aren't many experts on astronomy in this world and I doubt it will be explored. In the mythology there's a reason for the world to be what it is. I am happy I didn't have to break the laws of science too much to make it work.


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## Sheilawisz (Jul 3, 2013)

Hello Sander, and welcome to Mythic Scribes!!

I love your idea, because I am a fan of unrealistic Fantasy and impossible worlds. I know that they have discovered some planets that correspond to your description, so it's not physically impossible but... What would Life be like in a planet like that? I think that such life forms would be totally different to Earth's, maybe something that we cannot even imagine.

My guess would be that the Night side would be unbearably freezing while the day side would be scorching, and who knows what the weather system would be like...

Why does it have to be a planet??

You could try it as a more unrealistic world: I have a universe that is composed by an endless sea where it's a frozen night all the time. The worlds are huge islands that follow a day/night cycle because they have tiny suns and moons of their own, while the sea is bottomless and the starry sky above is infinite as well.

What is the name of your world??


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## Sander (Jul 3, 2013)

Hi. Thanks for the welcome.

The world is called Averta. In a sense it doesn't matter if it is a planet or not, as the world is not observed as such. There is very little astronomy and while I could definitely go into great detail why the world physically is the way it is, I prefer the idea of having a legend tied to it.

In this case The Spirit of Power was obsessed with the element fire. He saw the hunger of this element, the way it could grow from one spark to a sea of flames. So he gifted his favourite creations, giant humans, the sun and fire as a gift and allowed them to control it. 

When the winter came the giants showed kindness and gifted fire to the humans, which upset the Spirit of Power. He crafted the world so those that had insulted him would be punished. One side would rarely see the sun, while the other would only have that. He cursed the giants to become great creatures crafted from fire, to remind them of their hubris, the Lymar.

The humans mostly fled to live in the world in between, but many ages later had to return. A prophecy of something across the Endless Sea coming to destroy them made them wary and they set up guards at the four outer peaks of the continent. This ended in a settlement in the Nightlands and one in the Daylands. 

The Lymar held the one in the Daylands and humans rarely visit. The Daysea, the western side of the Endless Sea, has become an endless waste, where the sun plays tricks on the mind. Many humans can't even bare the sight of it, claiming to see an endless army of monsters.


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## PaulineMRoss (Jul 3, 2013)

The Draykon trilogy by Charlotte E English features a setup like this. There are seven kingdoms, three in permanent darkness, three in permanent daylight and one that has a normal day/night cycle. The abnormal states are maintained by magic. She deals quite well with the difficulties (like people from the nightlands finding it difficult to visit the daylands because their eyes aren't adapted to it.


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## ThinkerX (Jul 3, 2013)

I have an SF world like this.  A lost colony world thousands of years in the future.

I believe one of Ankari's worlds is like this, judging from some of the races he's posted.

Astronomically, a world like this would most likely be found orbiting an M class 'Red Dwarf'.  Most Red Dwarfs have well under 1% the luminosity of our sun, though some check in with 2 - 3% solar luminosity.  

Likely, such a planet would be orbiting close in to its primary, with a year equal to just a few earth months...probably 100 days max, in which case the whole world would be a bit chilly - even the day side.  The sun of such a world, being closer, would appear far larger to that worlds inhabitants.  

Even orbiting close in, ambient light levels on a world like this would be much less than daylight here on earth.  Closest comparisions would be either a very heavy overcast or twilight.   Even normal people on such a world would have better...night vision (low light vision?) than we do here.  To them, a normal sunny day on earth would be literally blinding, even for daysiders.  Plants would likely have larger and darker leaves, to better absorb solar energy.  

Many M class stars are a bit unstable, prone to huge solar flares which can sometimes double their luminosity.  This would have profound affects on the worlds weather, likely induce mutations among the local lifeforms, disrupt unshielded electronics, and in a fantasy world, likely have a severe effect on magic (perhaps magicians are born during times of great solar flares).  It is possible the larger solar flares might actually be seen from the worlds darkside.

Moons for such a world are unlikely.  If such a moon does exist, it is probably a captured object in an unstable orbit (sometimes very close to the planet, sometimes very far out).

As pointed out there would also be strong winds in the 'twilight' area, which would also serve to level out temperatures a bit, warming up much of the nightside to near tolorable levels.


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## psychotick (Jul 5, 2013)

Hi,

There's some questions for me as well. If the world is basically day and night, i.e. it doesn't spin then you end up with a world in two parts, day and night as you describe. The band between them wouldn't have a day night cycle, it'd just be a perpetual twilight. But that's if its a sci fi book. If it's fantasy you could do it another way. The dark land is dark because some great spell brought the great black clouds to cover the land and stole the light. Not sure what sort of spell you'd so to have part ofthe world bathed in perpetual light.

However there are still things to consider. The dark side is going to freeze. That means as someone said no free water. Only ice. Plants are going to die, they need light and free water to grow. No plants, no herbivores. No herbivores and predators starve. So basically no ecology. The bright side of course burns and again there's no free water. No plants can grow and there's no ecology. But everywhere else if its normal and days continue as they are, life carries on.

My thought would be don't make it half the world in darkness half in light. Make it just a dark realm perpetually covered in black clouds, and then you can have your darklanders emerging from it to steal water nd food without having to travel thousands of miles. Likewise your lightlanders can do the same.

Cheers, Greg.


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## Steerpike (Jul 5, 2013)

The planet could be spinning, it's just that the spin would have to be timed in relation to its orbit so that the same side is always facing the sun.

I don't know that the dark side would necessarily have to freeze. What if there was some kind of geothermal of volcanic process going on over there that kept the temperature within a range hospitable for life? You could have all kinds of interesting chemotrophic life evolve there.


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## ThinkerX (Jul 5, 2013)

The dark side would be really cold...but not as cold as you might think, due to...atmospheric transfer of heat... strong winds crossing from the day side to the night side, bringing warmer air with them.

And yes, the planet could rotate, and provide a day/night cycle of sorts, provided it orbited almost 'pole on' (axial tilt of something like 80 degrees).


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## Mythopoet (Jul 5, 2013)

Why on earth would a fantasy world need to conform to real world logic? It only has to conform to it's own logic. Give some thought to the nature and workings of your world. Make it internally consistent. Make sure you could give a good reason for something other than "It's magic!" or "I thought it would be cool" if someone asks you how something works. 

I also write in a world where there are areas of light and areas of darkness and areas in between of twilight. I know why it is like that and how it works and most importantly why humans can still live and thrive in such a world. 

This is what fantasy is all about.


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## Scribble (Jul 5, 2013)

Here are some scientific speculations about how Earth would be like if it became "tidally locked". 

Dark Side of the Earth: What would happen if our planet became tidally locked?

This is not to dump science on the story, but rather to stir ideas for factors that would prevent some of the aspects of extreme temperature that would make life a challenge on such a planet. Maybe you can world-build just enough mechanisms, possibly mystical, to stabilize things to satisfy the occasional science geek who would want to poke holes in the logic.

Those mechanisms that preserve life, if threatened, could even be a part of the story...

But, not necessary. As Mythopoet said, it's fantasy. Let it be fantastical if you wish.


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