# Why do people equate beauty with femininity?



## Peregrine (Jul 25, 2017)

It is a fact that women are more beautiful than men, but that does not mean we should ignore male beauty. When a man is pretty, he is described as handsome but you never hear that a man is described as beautiful. Some men want themselves to be called handsome instead of beautiful because they think it carries the negative connotation of homosexuality or effeminacy.

Feanor ? imgbb.com

This is a beautiful elf. He has long hair, but long hair does not make him look effeminate at all. To me long hair is not a sign of effeminacy, just as short hair in woman is not a sign of masculinity.

The face is very beautiful, to me his face is not androgynous (male and female looks combined), his face looks decently masculine and I don't see anything effeminate in that face. He is beautiful, but in a manly way.


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## skip.knox (Jul 25, 2017)

Beauty is a very old word. For much of its history, the word could be applied either to men or to women. It still is, though the usage is more commonly applied to women. Ain't no thing.

That elf, btw, strikes me as more rougish than beautiful. It's that smirk of a smile, I think, but it's also partly the color palette. But there, you see? "Beauty" is ofttimes in the eye of the beholder.
https://thesupernaturalfoxsisters.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/beholder_by_hungrysparrow.jpg

*chortle*


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## Peregrine (Jul 25, 2017)

What is rougish?


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## CupofJoe (Jul 25, 2017)

Peregrine said:


> What is rougish?


For me Roguish means there is an element of danger behind how the person looks. They may look beautiful but while I wouldn’t trust them with my wallet, they would be fun to be near.

 I know more than one person that would describe Orlando Bloom [Elf, Pirate, or not] as beautiful as well as roguish.

As for your question “Why do people equate beauty with femininity?”
 My answer would be that in the west we have been [educated, inculcated, brainwashed, exposed] in to accept only a few forms of beauty and they are linked to being non-male.


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## Holman (Jul 25, 2017)

skip.knox said:


> Beauty is a very old word. For much of its history, the word could be applied either to men or to women. It still is, though the usage is more commonly applied to women. Ain't no thing.
> 
> That elf, btw, strikes me as more rougish than beautiful. It's that smirk of a smile, I think, but it's also partly the color palette. But there, you see? "Beauty" is ofttimes in the eye of the beholder.
> https://thesupernaturalfoxsisters.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/beholder_by_hungrysparrow.jpg
> ...



Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder

http://www.unwinnable.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Eye-Header-Flipped-Mix.jpg


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## pmmg (Jul 25, 2017)

I've certainly heard it happen that men were called beautiful, and I've heard it said that some women were handsome. I must confess, regardless of why, it does have a slightly disconnected ring to it when I see it used thus. I don't think there is anything emphatically wrong with it, but I don't mind living in a world where men are handsome and women are beautiful, seems a fair use of the words to me. In a more archaic world, I think these terms found wider acceptance between genders, and so if I was writing to be archaic I might use them.


Ahh...I missed the opening question...

Why do people equate beauty with Femininity?

Well, I am not sure that I do. Femininity to me means something entirely different. If the question is why do I associate beauty with women? Well... cause women.

Is that really a hard question?


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## skip.knox (Jul 25, 2017)

Beauty as a general concept is genderless. I just saw a beautiful sunset.

Beauty when applied to humans, though, really is strongly gendered, at least nowadays. Which means we're dealing with reader expectations here. I would put some careful thought if I wanted to describe my male MC as beautiful, or my female MC as handsome. Both can be done, but I would be more careful in word choice than if I were describing a male character as handsome or a female character as beautiful. The cultural bias does the work for you. When you cut across cultural expectations, then the author needs to be more thoughtful.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Jul 26, 2017)

Legolas is more beautiful than most women.


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## Steerpike (Jul 26, 2017)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> Legolas is more beautiful than most women.



But are the features that embody that beauty features that are considered traditionally feminine?


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## Devor (Jul 26, 2017)

I'm a little confused.... guys use the word "handsome" instead of beautiful when talking about other guys, and mothers when talking about their sons, because it takes a bit of the "wow, I'm drawn to that" factor out of the word "beautiful."  It's a social thing, with causes that can be argued about all day until everyone is blue in the face and mad at each other.

But as others have said, there is otherwise nothing gendered about beauty.


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## Mythopoet (Jul 27, 2017)

I call men beautiful all the time. So do lots of people on tumblr. I don't really think of it as a feminine thing. I think of it more as a spiritual thing.


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## TheCrystallineEntity (Jul 27, 2017)

_I think of it more as a spiritual thing._
So do I.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Jul 28, 2017)

TheCrystallineEntity said:


> _I think of it more as a spiritual thing._
> So do I.



Yes, this! 

Despite my Legolas joke, I actually do have thoughts on this. 

I don't think aesthetic beauty is strictly gendered. Masculine beauty is totally a thing. It would seem most appropriate to use that word if his features are softer and more refined rather than rough or rugged. Which can still be masculine, imo. 

However, when i use beautiful to describe a person, especially a guy, typically I mean the whole person (their mind, their personality, etc) instead of just their appearance. Which ties into what y'all said about it being a more spiritual thing. If i'm interpreting correctly. 

In writing, I wouldn't hesitate to call a guy beautiful, if it seemed like the right word. Beauty is really a rather broad word, isn't it?


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## Peat (Jul 28, 2017)

The same reason people associate blue with the sky and red with fires. That's just the way those words were used when growing up. You call girls beautiful - or pretty, cute, gorgeous, sexy - you call blokes handsome. Or handsome*. One size fits all mate, what are you, one of those bloody metrosexuals? The lack of gradation goes along with a cultural bias against taking particular care in your appearance.

And yeah, men do occasionally get called beautiful. Usually if they're ridiculously over the top good looking. I don't think men fear being called beautiful - they just know that, by the set standard, they're not. Conversely, I would consider calling a woman handsome to border on backhanded compliment, depending on context and sincerity.

I would call a man beautiful on a whole spiritual level, yes. But I would only do so sarcastically.

Of course, different places, different generations, different expectations.

*Okay, there's a few others. But nothing like the thousand different ways we have for denoting exactly how a woman is attractive.


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## Mythopoet (Jul 28, 2017)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> However, when i use beautiful to describe a person, especially a guy, typically I mean the whole person (their mind, their personality, etc) instead of just their appearance. Which ties into what y'all said about it being a more spiritual thing. If i'm interpreting correctly.
> 
> In writing, I wouldn't hesitate to call a guy beautiful, if it seemed like the right word. Beauty is really a rather broad word, isn't it?



Yes, precisely. When we call a piece of art or nature beautiful we are talking about the whole, not just the physical bits. Beauty is something you experience that is not related to sexual attraction, but attraction of the soul. At least that's the way I see it. I know that's not the common way it is used. Most people are only talking about beauty that is skin-deep. But I reject that. Feanor, as referenced in the OP, and other Elves in Tolkien's writing had extreme beauty because their spirits shone through their physical bodies. Not because they had physical features that were better than other races. 

I think it is sad that men are not allowed to appreciate beauty in the same way that women are in our society. But it is true. Women are free to refer to men or other women as beautiful without any negative effects. But if a man called another man beautiful he would risk other men looking down on him. In America, men are even more trapped in masculine gender roles than women are in feminine ones.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Jul 28, 2017)

Mythopoet said:


> Yes, precisely. When we call a piece of art or nature beautiful we are talking about the whole, not just the physical bits. Beauty is something you experience that is not related to sexual attraction, but attraction of the soul. At least that's the way I see it. I know that's not the common way it is used. Most people are only talking about beauty that is skin-deep. But I reject that. Feanor, as referenced in the OP, and other Elves in Tolkien's writing had extreme beauty because their spirits shone through their physical bodies. Not because they had physical features that were better than other races.
> 
> I think it is sad that men are not allowed to appreciate beauty in the same way that women are in our society. But it is true. Women are free to refer to men or other women as beautiful without any negative effects. But if a man called another man beautiful he would risk other men looking down on him. In America, men are even more trapped in masculine gender roles than women are in feminine ones.



exactly, exactly!


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## skip.knox (Jul 28, 2017)

I don't feel I am looked down upon and I don't feel trapped. Maybe I missed the memo.


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## pmmg (Jul 28, 2017)

Mythopoet said:


> I think it is sad that men are not allowed to appreciate beauty in the same way that women are in our society. But it is true. Women are free to refer to men or other women as beautiful without any negative effects. But if a man called another man beautiful he would risk other men looking down on him. In America, men are even more trapped in masculine gender roles than women are in feminine ones.



Honestly, I don't think this quite captures very well the male experience. As a male, it don't bother me at all that I don't get called beautiful (although, I think I have been on some rare occasions). I don't think some kind of crime has been inflicted upon me by western culture for the lack of it either. But, others may differ...

Beautiful in the spiritual sense, or in other contexts, is kind of expanding the concept a little. I agree with the sentiment in those. There are certainly beautiful males, and it there is certainly beauty that is more than skin deep.


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## Michael K. Eidson (Jul 28, 2017)

When I was younger, I had long hair, hanging down past my shoulders. I was told the story about one of my relatives seeing me at a distance from behind once, not realizing it was me. This relative's observation was, "What an ugly woman." When I found out about it, I found it amusing. The relative was all apologetic, but I didn't feel an apology was necessary. I knew who I was, and I wanted to be the way I was, so what other people said about my outward appearance didn't persuade me to change it or to feel bad about myself. I'm sure I would have found it just as amusing if the relative had said, "What a beautiful woman." Yet I know guys who would tear you a new one if you so much as insinuated they had any effeminate qualities.

Male behavior and beliefs vary from one man to the next, just as female behavior and beliefs vary from one woman to the next, whatever the topic may be. Moreover, you can find people with male parts who identify as women, and vice versa, so the whole discussion of gender-specific behaviors can go down a very deep rabbit hole if you want to go there. Better to stick to individual examples, and not imply that those individuals are representative of any generic category of people.


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## bestellen (Aug 19, 2017)

There is otherwise nothing gendered about beauty.


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