# How to write dates



## Storm Kesocascay (Aug 24, 2014)

Well, I came across good progress in my series and now it's time to date everything.
The series is going to focus on 4 different races/cultures. Listed by size, they are Kaiyumae, Templarian, Semigoian, and Reig.

I won't go into detail as to what happened yet, but right now, I need to come up with a way to categorize them. I was going to copy the Elder Scrolls method. For example, the day Alduin attacks Helgen in Skyrim is "17 Last Seed, 4E 201", 17th of August, 201 years into the Fourth Era. (which makes sense. Martin Septim started the Fourth Era with the ending of the Oblivion Crisis and Skyrim happened about 200 years later when Titus Mead was emperor) 

A similar method to that (different months and stuff) seems to make sense. I'm going to make months, but I want to find a way to record the dates along the 4 major timelines. So like the date that the series starts could be "K 6E 2,021". (Kaiyumian timeline, 2,021 years into the 6th Era.)

The one thing is that perspectives change so some way to identify the timeline used would be great. for example, the series may happen 2,021 years into the 6th Era according to the Kaiyumae, but to the Reig, it may be 5,893 years into the 18th Era. 

Now I would stick with the above method, but it appears too much like Elder Scrolls, and I already have too many references. (considering that Reig, the dragons in my book, are based off of Dovah, just overhauled)

So if you guys know any method or suggestions, that would be appreciated. Here's a list off all of the timelines.

Reig-18 Eras, each lasting about 1,000,000 years, making a total of 18 million years total.
Semigonian-4 Eras, each lasting about 5,000 years, making a total of 20,000 years. (started 2 eras into the Reig timeline)
Templarian-5 Eras, each lasting about 100,000 years, making a total of 500,000 years. (starts after the Semigonian timeline ends)
Kaiyumian-6 Eras, each lasting about 2,000 years, making a total of 12,000 years. (starts 4 eras into the Templarian timeline)

What's really hard to understand is that all of the timelines are ongoing, except for the Semigonian timeline, which ends on 5E 789,350 and is picked up by the Templarian timeline. By the end of the book, each timeline gets an era so Reig will have 19 eras, Templarian will have 6 eras, and Kaiyumian will have 7. (Semigonian timeline stopped so it doesn't get one)

So, any easy-to-understand way to categorize these?


----------



## Gurkhal (Aug 24, 2014)

Well I would suggest making a timeline using our own calender since you are familiar with it and with that as a base you can date the other stuff according to your wishes.

Just one question. What part in the story does these different timelines have?


----------



## Storm Kesocascay (Aug 24, 2014)

Gurkhal said:


> Well I would suggest making a timeline using our own calender since you are familiar with it and with that as a base you can date the other stuff according to your wishes.
> 
> Just one question. What part in the story does these different timelines have?



I can do the dating no problem, I just need to sort out when EXACTLY it happened so that it is easier to write. Kind of how we write today for example; 08/24/2014AD or 24th of August of 2014 _Ano Domini_ How would people like the Kaiyumae write their dates in this fashion. That's when I brought up K 6E 2,021, but I don't want to use that because it's too similar to Elder Scrolls. It's a format like this that I want to develop.

Technically, all of the timelines, minus the Semigonian line, all have the story taking place in them. For example, Kaiyumians mark the year that the first book started as 2,021 of the Sixth Era. Templarians would say that it's 95,832 of the Fifth Era. And the Reig would say it's 1,000,203 of the 18th Era. It's the same date, just the timelines dating that date have different lengths. The Reig timeline is longer, going back to the beginning of time all the way up to the day the series happened. 

Since Kaiyumae, Templarians, and Reig all appear in the series, their timelines play a part. However, the Kaiyumian timeline is the most commonly used. Any other dates in other timelines will be translated to the Kaiyumian timeline. (Iris the second main character is Kaiyumian so most of everything is translated for her understanding. Arylos, the true main character, is a bit more advanced, being all three races, so everything is [attempted] translated to Iris' knowledge, but any scene she doesn't appear, the information isn't translated)


----------



## Asura Levi (Aug 24, 2014)

An idea, making it not much different. Instead of K 6E 2,021, you could use 2,021-6. 
I know this method don't differentiate one calendar from another, for that I would suggest using different nomenclatures.
2,021-6 for the Kaiyumians
18E 5,893 for the Reig
789,305 5E

In fact, that are not many different ways in do so. They will all look similar. And personally I myself find it unnecessary, the era naming.
When we write down dates, Aug 24, 2012. We don't use the A.D. for everyday situation, only when referring to historical events.

Also, I find all this eras quite confusing. Specially because they are really long dates. But that is me.


----------



## Storm Kesocascay (Aug 24, 2014)

Asura Levi said:


> An idea, making it not much different. Instead of K 6E 2,021, you could use 2,021-6.
> I know this method don't differentiate one calendar from another, for that I would suggest using different nomenclatures.
> 2,021-6 for the Kaiyumians
> 18E 5,893 for the Reig
> ...



I could try that out. I also don't blame you for finding the eras confusing; the dates are freakishly long. The sad news is that without those eras, it would be even harder to date. Remember, the Kaiyumian calendar has a total length of 12,000 years up to the events in the book, while the Reig stretch over 1,000,000 years. It would be very tedious to write a date like that. (10,893 or 1,993,029. too tedious and confusing) 

Also, I forgot to mention, the eras mark certain major events. Just like in Elder Scrolls when the Oblivion Crisis ended, the Fourth Era began, marking the end of the Oblivion Crisis. Or like in Elder Scrolls when humans left Atmora and came to Tamriel marked the end of the Dawn Era and started the First Era.

What causes a change in era is the following
-change in national leadership
-national grief, struggle, war, or an end of such events
-change in national religion/beliefs

For example, when Reig came to humans and taught them how to live marked the Fourth Era, but when Kalndahvok enslaved humanity started the Fifth Era, and Kalndahvok's fall started the Sixth Era, all on the Kaiyumian calendar.


----------



## WooHooMan (Aug 24, 2014)

It warms my heart to know that up-and-coming fantasy writers are taking inspiration from the Elder Scrolls series.

Anyways, the Elder Scrolls series is the story of Talos/Lorkhan and the Empire (which was founded by Talos).  The transition to and from of each era is marked by events relevant to those two entities.  The reason why Elder Scrolls is able to support such a huge and varied universe is because *everything* ties back to Talos/Lorkhan and the Empire.

Dawn Era =  The life of Lorkhan, includes his creation of the mortal world and his subsequent execution
Mythic Era = Lorkhan's creation, the mortal world, takes shape
First Era = Pre-Talos empires of men
Second Era = Transition from Pre-Talos empires to Talos' empire
Third Era = Talos' empire. Includes Morrowind (Lorkhan's heart is destroyed) and Oblivion (Daedra try to claim Lorkhan's realm from the mortals/Aedra)
Fourth Era = Post-Talos empire. The importance of the Oblivion Crisis is that Talos' dynasty no longer rules the empire.  If it did, the Third Era would not have ended.  This era includes Skyrim where Talos is a major player in the game's plot.

The life of the ES universe is the life of Lorkhan, his realm (Tamriel) and his successor (Talos).
It's a complicated timeline.  For a single story it would be too much but told over the course of five main games, at least three spin-offs and a bunch of text both in-game and out...it's _still_ a lot but manageable. 

So my advice would be to built your timeline around the major historic events of your story's backstory.  Do not divide periods of time when it is not necessary.  It'll only serve to make your timeline more confusing.  For example, the Christian Church timeline is built around the birth of Christ.  Events are measured based on when the event happened in relation to the birth of Christ.  Hence BC and AD.

That's what I'm doing with my story.  The timeline is built around a specific event so everything is either "Before Event" or "After Event".  Any further divides in the timeline would be based around backstory that is minor or useless to the main plot.  Keeping it simple would be the way to go, I think.

Consider the Hindu "Yuga" timeline which is built around the virtuous nature of humanity as a whole.
Satya Yuga - Humanity is 4/4 virtues and 0/4 sin; lasts roughly 1.75 million years
Treta Yuga - Humanity is 3/4 virtues and 1/4 sin; lasts roughly 1.25 million years
Dwapar Yuga - Humanity is 2/4 virtues and 2/4 sin; lasts roughly 25 thousand years
Kali Yuga - Humanity is 1/4 virtues and 3/4 sin; began over 3 thousand years ago
And then the universe will end before humanity can go full sinful.

Simple right?  Wrong.  I would say the Hindu "Yuga" timeline is as complicated as a timeline needs to be for most stories and it's only a single timeline divided into four uneven periods.

If you want to differentiate your timeline from the Elder Scrolls timeline, I'd recommend doing away with the notion of "Eras".  At least call them something else.


----------



## Storm Kesocascay (Aug 24, 2014)

WooHooMan said:


> It warms my heart to know that up-and-coming fantasy writers are taking inspiration from the Elder Scrolls series.
> 
> Anyways, the Elder Scrolls series is the story of Talos/Lorkhan and the Empire (which was founded by Talos).  The transition to and from of each era is marked by events relevant to those two entities.  The reason why Elder Scrolls is able to support such a huge and varied universe is because *everything* ties back to Talos/Lorkhan and the Empire.
> 
> ...



I can probably find a way to change the names from eras or something. But each era for each timeline does signify a specific event. I just try to keep them even for sake of easy math. As I said, the Reig came into the story to teach and rule man, marking the beginning of the Fourth Era on the Kaiyumian calendar. Then, when Kalndahvok becomes the new King of the Reig, he decides to enslave humanity instead of mentoring them like before. This started a massive war that was quickly quenched by Kalndahvok, securing his rule, marking the Fifth Era. In the late end of the Fifth Era, the humans rebel and another war ensues, but humans have the upper hand and were able to banish Kalndahvok into the Void from whence he came. The remaining Reig fled and most were hunted down and killed. The beginning of the Sixth Era starts when Kalndahvok is defeated.

Each of these Eras took place because a massive shift in culture and government and since we are dealing with early humans, they would have seen these events as chosen by the divines. (especially when they worshiped Reig like gods)


----------



## WooHooMan (Aug 24, 2014)

Storm Kesocascay said:


> I can probably find a way to change the names from eras or something. But each era for each timeline does signify a specific event. I just try to keep them even for sake of easy math. As I said, the Reig came into the story to teach and rule man, marking the beginning of the Fourth Era on the Kaiyumian calendar. Then, when Kalndahvok becomes the new King of the Reig, he decides to enslave humanity instead of mentoring them like before. This started a massive war that was quickly quenched by Kalndahvok, securing his rule, marking the Fifth Era. In the late end of the Fifth Era, the humans rebel and another war ensues, but humans have the upper hand and were able to banish Kalndahvok into the Void from whence he came. The remaining Reig fled and most were hunted down and killed. The beginning of the Sixth Era starts when Kalndahvok is defeated.
> 
> Each of these Eras took place because a massive shift in culture and government and since we are dealing with early humans, they would have seen these events as chosen by the divines. (especially when they worshiped Reig like gods)



It all sounds way more complicated then it needs to be.  Like, I'm reading a direct explanation from the author's mouth and I'm having trouble following it.  I can't imagine reading this in a story and being able to keep track.
The fall of Rome didn't start a new period of time in the Roman Catholic calendar.  Nor did the Western Schism or Renaissance.  Not every sociopolitical event needs to create a new era in the calendar.  As I mentioned earlier, in the ES timeline, only events related to Lorkhan and Talos usher in new eras.

If Kalndahvok's rise to power and following defeat are the major plot points of the backstory/Kaiyumian timeline then it seems like only three time periods are needed...
Period 1: Pre-Kalndahvok's reign
Period 2: Kalndahvok's reign
Period 3: Post-Kalndahvok's reign

A deep, complex backstory is fine but you need to be able to organize it simply and clearly.


----------



## Storm Kesocascay (Aug 24, 2014)

WooHooMan said:


> It all sounds way more complicated then it needs to be.  Like, I'm reading a direct explanation from the author's mouth and I'm having trouble following it.  I can't imagine reading this in a story and being able to keep track.
> The fall of Rome didn't start a new period of time in the Roman Catholic calendar.  Nor did the Western Schism or Renaissance.  Not every sociopolitical event needs to create a new era in the calendar.  As I mentioned earlier, in the ES timeline, only events related to Lorkhan and Talos usher in new eras.
> 
> If Kalndahvok's rise to power and following defeat are the major plot points of the backstory/Kaiyumian timeline then it seems like only three time periods are needed...
> ...



I'll give that a shot. Maybe, the Templarian line can be condensed because a whole ton of stuff happens during the beginning of their existence, but nothing really major minus Arylos's rise to power to Shadow Alchemist, and then the Templarian Rebellion at the end of the book shortly after Arylos is crowned King of the Reig so maybe I could do something similar.

The Semigonians had a lot going on, but they also didn't live very long so their out of the picture on that. 

the Reig, however, will be problematic. they are the oldest and each new king lived insanely long and did so many different things. Currently, counting Arylos, there have been 11 kings over 18,000,000 years. (keep in mind, these are dragons that live in the Void between realms so they don't follow the exact laws of existence.) They existed before Reality and still live by the end of the series. Between that time, Reality was created, kings crowned civilizations made and destroyed, dimensions formed, wars, ect. The Reig had a pretty exciting life up until Kalndahvok was banished, where they just scattered and lived in solitude for 2,000 years until Kalndahvok returns, only to be slain by Arylos, crowning him the new king. The Reig then pick up from there.


----------



## WooHooMan (Aug 24, 2014)

Is multiple calendars really necessary?  I mean, in the project I'm working on I have several civilizations (including long-lived dragons and ageless deities) but I can still believable keep it all to one calendar/timeline.

Also, can you ease-up on the story factoids?  I feel like you're adding a lot of unneeded clutter to this thread.
"Arylos's rise to power to Shadow Alchemist, and then the Templarian Rebellion at the end of the book shortly after Arylos is crowned King of the Reig"
I have no idea what any of this is.  I have no context here. 
I feel like you throwing in all these story tidbits might make it hard for people to follow this thread or what you're trying to do.  It also demonstrates why you might want to streamline your timeline.

Also, I tried making a visual timeline for your thing.  Here's what I came-up with.
View image: timelines
I get that you want to make the dragons super old but you made their _calendar_ older than our entire universe.  Heck, you made the Templarian timeline over two times older than humanity.  Maybe you should use smaller numbers.


----------



## WooHooMan (Aug 24, 2014)

Sorry to double post, but I did this...








So, it looks like your timeline can be simplified to two timelines, one using traditional Gregorian (before and after event) style while the other uses a Elder Scrolls-ian, Tolkien-esque method.

I was thinking dragons could just measure year by relation to the present time.  If you ask a dragon when WW2 began, they'd say "75 years ago" instead of "1939".  If you ask a dragon what year is it, they'll say "this one".  This method would make sense to beings who predate the universe and the concept of time itself.  It'll also help make the dragons seem more mystical or "above humanity".

These are just suggestions though.


----------



## Storm Kesocascay (Aug 24, 2014)

WooHooMan said:


> Sorry to double post, but I did this...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's OK about the double post.

Yeah, I'm sorry about the clutter. There's a lot going on in this story and trying to keep it all in line kind of got out of line. I mainly reduced down info in the original post to prevent clutter. I guess that's a sign that things got out of control.

Taking your suggestion as to how the Reig would measure time, that would make a lot more sense, especially since they predate all other races. I will also use that graph you posted as a reference. (Thanks a lot for that) Looking back at your last post as to the length of each time line, I think the primary problem with the Reig historical line is that I was also counting years before creation. Something I remembered (and was just about to add) was that maybe Reig would not know how much time passed because they existed before time itself; they could only accurately measure time from the perspective of when time actually began.

Thanks a lot for your help.


----------



## skip.knox (Aug 25, 2014)

A small codicil to what WooHooMan said:  sometimes religious or political events do lead to calendar reform. Cases in point: Julius Caesar reformed the calendar, mainly because it needed reforming and he was dictator at the time; and there was a reform in 1582 to which the Catholics subscribed but the Protestants did not, merely because they were calling each other names at the time (and killing each other). 

That said, you're confusing world building with story telling. Go ahead and make whatever calendars you wish. Have fun. Go crazy. 

But when you come to write an actual novel or short story, stick with one calendar unless the story absolutely requires a discussion of differing timelines. Don't try to use it for color, it will only confuse your reader. But if the difference is the point, then go ahead and drag us through the gory details. We like that sort of thing, if there's a story in it.


----------

