# Alternative fantasy races



## Mythic Scribes

I reckon some races have been used too much.  Dwarves, elves and orcs aren't fascinating any more.  They are too common.

What are some other fantasy races that readers will be less familiar with?


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## kjjcarpenter

I don't believe that dwarves, elves and orcs are too common as you say, rather, I always have, and always will, consider them Tolkien's territory. I would never write with one of these races, and to be honest I don't believe anyone can pull it off as well as Tolkien did. I think they are best left alone.
What I tend to do is create my own humanoid races. They feel more authentic and they are mine, not just borrowed carbon copies of another author's mythology or imagination.
As for lesser known races you could use, try looking at medieval myths or researching ancient cultures. You're sure so come up with a variety of monsters and creatures that could be borrowed and morphed into something new.


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## Dwarven Gold

Tom Riddle said:


> Dwarves, elves and orcs aren't fascinating any more.



Those are fighting words, Tommy.  Dwarves invented fascinating.


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## kjjcarpenter

Dwarven Gold said:


> Those are fighting words, Tommy.  Dwarves invented fascinating.


 
I guess this falls under the altered quote: 'Nobody insults a dwarf!'


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## Ravana

The problem isn't so much that dwarves and elves are overused, but rather that Tolkien (and subsequently D&D) have so heavily influenced most people's perceptions of them that you're often stuck with using the existing stereotypes or else creating dissonance with the reader's expectations. 

Which is okay. Keep in mind that, before Tolkien, elves were _not_ "friendly"–and even in Tolkien, they can occasionally be sinister (or at least intimidating) figures. We get dazzled by the hobbits' adoration of them, but: consider the reputation Lorien has, both among humans and the ents (who you might expect to know better). Reread the scene where Frodo offers Galadriel the Ring. (You could also check out what crumbs they were in _The Silmarillion_, but that's pretty pointless: there, they're indistinguishable from humans… and if you aren't going to make them palpably different, just write about humans.) Or just remember why folk tales started calling them "fair folk" in the first place. 

The same applies to pretty much any other race, regardless of source or familiarity. The same caution applies, too: if the differences between the races aren't meaningful to the story, using them is gratuitous at best, more often puzzling, not to mention irritating (as your reader tries to figure out why you _did_ use them). Which also means that, unless such races are pivotal to the story, they should be used sparingly, both in frequency of appearance and with regard to how many different ones there are. Give your aspirations a liberal shave with Occam's Razor: "Entities should not be multiplied without reason." Keep ecology in mind, too: all these different races have to exist alongside one another–how do they manage it? Are they niche-specific, and if not, what's kept one from overrunning or driving out all the others?  Which also suggests evolutionary forces, if your world hasn't been fashioned in its present state by divine beings… and that's "present state": if the world was set in motion ten thousand years ago, competition has had plenty of time to adjust population equilibriums. 

There's one exception to the "use sparingly" guideline, and that's when the story is told from the point of view of a member of that race. Which is what I'd suggest doing whenever you get the urge to include one: write yourself a couple of short pieces from just such points of view. You'll learn a lot more about the race you're creating/using if you have to work your way through their concerns, outlooks, etc. It also lets you go back and ask yourself "Can I tell this isn't a human being–without looking at its name or physical description?" If the answer is "No," then you're probably better off not using it at all, or in any case need to do some more work delineating the differences.


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## Donny Bruso

Personally I don't like writing using elves, dwarves, orcs, etc. either. My approach is to create different countries or continents or kingdoms, and essentially apply the theory of micro-evolution. You can make a case for almost anything evolve among separated peoples given cause and enough time. Skin tone, color and amount of hair, stature, sensitivity of the senses, all of these are incredibly variable in the human gene pool. There is no reason other more 'fantasy-esqe' things can't be thrown in as well. Pointed ears, for example.

And of course you can lade each sect of humanity with different cultural and religious values that add depth and realism, just as you could different races.


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## Meg the Healer

Tom Riddle said:


> Dwarves, elves and orcs.... they are too common.


 
I tend to agree. But I also agree with some of the other posters, it's not that they're common, but that have become so known that you run the risk of using a stereotype.

Oddly enough I went back to the basics. Witches, Vampires, Demons, and Lycanthropes. These can be used and changed without using a stereotype. I mean look at all the different types of Vampires there are now. You have Dracula, Blade, Buffy-verse, Twilight, and now Being Human. You can make the races anything you want. So even though you have a preconceived notion of what it means to be a Dwarf or an Elf - you have the power to change it. Even though they look like your typical character race, you can change how they came into being and really make them your own.


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## At Dusk I Reign

I've always avoided using stock fantasy races in my writing. This is partly due to an aversion built up and strengthened after reading numerous sub-par fantasies, but primarily due to the nature of what I write. I draw much of my inspiration from ancient religions and the Hermetica, so there's no actual need to populate my imaginary world with elves and goblins. On the rare occasions when I have felt the need to introduce a race, it's been from my own imagination rather than by drawing from a well  long since poisoned by slack-jawed idiots masquerading as authors; in that regard my never-to-be-published novel probably has more in common with Barker's Imajica than Tolkien's Lord of the Rings. That's not to say I'd never read a novel which contained such staples – as long as it's well-written I'll pretty much read anything. I'm just supremely wary after many years of wading through books written by people who have as much imagination as a brick in a blender.


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## Ophiucha

I am more than content just working off obscure myths of elves and dwarves, or simply changing them at whim as long as they are basically what they should be. Nobody really cares if your elves are mechanically inclined. You can work off obscure myths, too. Wikipedia has a whole page of every noteworthy creature in existence, and I doubt there is anything we could come up with that wouldn't be somewhere in the world's mythology. That latter point, though, is generally why I discourage creating your own creatures. Odds are very good that whatever fascinating new idea you have is just "vampires, except they sparkle" or "werewolves, except cats". To be sure, there are some great original creatures, but they still often follow simple molds. X+Y, and occasionally +Z. It is hard to come up with something magnificently original enough that somebody doesn't just say "so they're blue cat-elves, then?"


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## Behelit

Ophiucha said:


> I am more than content just working off obscure myths of elves and dwarves, or simply changing them at whim as long as they are basically what they should be. Nobody really cares if your elves are mechanically inclined. You can work off obscure myths, too. Wikipedia has a whole page of every noteworthy creature in existence, and I doubt there is anything we could come up with that wouldn't be somewhere in the world's mythology. That latter point, though, is generally why I discourage creating your own creatures. Odds are very good that whatever fascinating new idea you have is just "vampires, except they sparkle" or "werewolves, except cats". To be sure, there are some great original creatures, but they still often follow simple molds. X+Y, and occasionally +Z. It is hard to come up with something magnificently original enough that somebody doesn't just say "so they're blue cat-elves, then?"



I catch your point there. I suppose in the long run though, someone with an inkling more intelligence might just recognize said person as a dunce. Even if a character is a blue cat-elf I'd still prefer the author describe it than tell me that they are a blue cat-elf.

To be honest, I get sick of humans. That's probably one of the main reasons I seek refuge in Fantasy/Sci-Fi. If I wanted to read about humans and their typical interactions I'd go back to the Fiction section.


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## Kittenmay

Naga is a good race. Also, google is your best friend when it comes to this sort of thing.
However, I have to fundamentally disagree with you on this one. Elves are my favorite. Half the fun is finding a way that people haven't used yet.


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## JCFarnham

Speaking of Alternative Fantasy Races I believe I'm obliged to point you in the direction of this little rant by a person who goes by the handle, Limyaael [if you know of her I don't have to mention the addictive nature of her writing rants, but otherwise, you have been warned, I spend far too much time reading these haha]. 

http://limyaael.livejournal.com/170207.html

Its entitled "Other Species Equal-Time day".

Enjoy!

Personally I'm taking Limyaael's advice and have a tweaked version of the firebird of slavic folklore as a character. Good times.


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## Amanita

I don't mind Elves but I don't really understand why so many people think they have to be in a fantasy story. Even in Urban Fantasy stories Elves or Fairies seem to be default for some reason. Are they really that important in Britisch mythology or is it rather because of Tolkien?

At least in my part of Germany there are no tales about fairy-like creatures or at least I don't know about any. Many folk tales are about "Father Rhine" and various male and female water spirits who are often very beautiful and seduce people of the opposite gender. Maybe you've heard of Loreley combing her hair on a rock and leading sailors to their deaths. I'm much more familiar with them than with elves and therefore I'm using them for my own story.
Ghosts are a very common motif too, often people who've been punished for some sin such as greed, or treating their subordinates badly are forced to walk till someone frees them. Many stories are about people managing to free them by doing the right thing or failing and condemning the ghost to keep on walking.
Demonic beings guarding treasures or making it dangerous to pass some way turn up often as well, sometimes they and the spirits of water/nature in general mix. 
Witches are a common theme as well, but they've made it into popular fantasy literature in many forms. 
I really think the others could make very interesting stories.
I'd like to write an Urban Fantasy-story featuring some of them one day, but at the moment I'm too busy with my other project.


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## Philip Overby

I think a lot of fantasy relies on what Tolkien and Dungeons and Dragons established as the archetypes of what elves, dragons, dwarves, and like are supposed to be like.  I think it's fine to have them resemble what people most think of when you mention these races.  But I love alternative races as well.  Perdido Street Station by China Mieville has some of the weirdest fantasy creatures I've ever seen, but they work in his world.  

I used to want to reinvent elves and dwarves every time I wrote about them.  Now I don't really care.  I use humans a lot in my fiction primarily, but they're often so strange that they don't resemble humans anyway.


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## Dragonsooth

Behelit said:


> If I wanted to read about humans and their typical interactions I'd go back to the Fiction section.


 
Thank you Behelit!  While it's true that "stock fantasy races" have become fairly regular at the register, it doesn't mean that someone willing to take the time to know that race couldn't bring something new to it.  D&D is the greatest instigator in continuously defining these characters to a large mass of general public.  Come on, that's how my DAD knows what a dwarf is after all...still, if one allows these assumed restrictions to deny them a great story, then we have truly lost the battle as authors.

There is no new story, nothing exists that hasn't been hashed out before(and still makes sense).  However, there are several cases where an old story becomes new again.  The Red-Riding Hood movie(yes I know...hssss)took an old story and tried to make it new(er); just for a recent happenstance.  Our myths and legends have been watered down and reinvigorated contantly over many years.  Like the teacher who tells her first student "The apple is red" and that student tells another, the final student probably hears "The ape laid to rest."  This is the nature of stories.

I uses elves and dwarves in my first novel, and intend to extend their presense in following novels of the series.  Obviously I'm biased here, but their worlds are different than Tolkiens.  And maybe I did steal ideas from D&D; but as I said, there is no new story out there...it's our job to superbly retell them.  The ape laid to rest indeed!


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## Telcontar

I still enjoy the 'stock' fantasy races, with the usual (and in another sense, unusual) caveat that they have to be well done. I find myself often trying to apply a twist to them in my own writing, to give them the familiar-yet-different spin. 

Thing is, I'm not sure I've run across anything that I'd call 'alternative' because the variations are usually something you'd get from D&D anyway. An endless parade of 'animal people.' Cat people, rat people, parrot people... etc. Sci-Fi tends to have more interesting fictional sapient species, in my opinion.


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## Mdnight Falling

The crap I've created is rare... I think at least ONE race has been used before somewhere, but it's really rare and definately not named what I've named them. I DO have some everyday fantasy in it... there's elves somewhere but they're not good guys even if they're surface elves LOL and I have demons and whatnot, who play minor roles. But there are Vampires too.. and Garou, and Dragons.. but my hybrids are rare and their my main chars >^.^<


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## Worldbuilder

Ravana said:


> The problem isn't so much that dwarves and elves are overused, but rather that Tolkien (and subsequently D&D) have so heavily influenced most people's perceptions of them that you're often stuck with using the existing stereotypes or else creating dissonance with the reader's expectations.



I agree with this. There's a book at my local library (now out of print, I think) called something like A Field Guide to the Little People that I check out sometimes for worldbuilding inspiration. It has dozens, possibly hundreds, of different species of fae, from friendly to malevolent and everything in between. Makes for pretty fascinating reading and is a good reminder of how much ground there is to explore beyond the popular sidhe, pixies, dwarves, etc. 

I like to browse through non-European mythologies, too - there's such an incredible diversity of weird and wonderful legends in the world, like the Malaysian vampiric witch that appears as a disembodied floating head trailing its entrails behind it. Talk about creepy!


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## John Whitman

Another thing to keep in mind: How far can you go with your own "twist" on a "stock race"? How far can you really go with your dwarves that live the forests and care nothing of wealth before they are really just short, stocky elves?


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## Fiain

Just out of curiosity, has anyone here seen the new MMORPG Guild Wars 2? It isn't out yet, but the races in the game are fairly unique, in the sense that they take bits and pieces of older races and create new ones (like the Sylvari, an elven-fae race but also with a plant biology. Not platlike, they are literally made of plants lol)


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## SarahM.

Thank you! This is exactly why I started my blog. There are so many other fascinating mythical races in the world that need to have some light shed upon them! I just did an article on vampires and came up with 15 so far that I'd never, ever heard of and one even sneaked its way into this year's Nanowrimo idea.

I think the problem is that Westerners (British and Americans) are so influenced by Tolkien and those that tried to emulate him that many writers (even "seasoned" ones) fall back on the old, familiar stories. While, yes, they are fascinating and ground breaking, a writer should challenge themselves every once and a while and try to work outside of their comfort zones.


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## The Grey Sage

I personally have created many unique species and incorperated them into my Realms but I also included some classics like elves and dragons. I even put a twist to our friends the dwarves and re-amped them to make Duerves (similar culture but entirely different beings than dwarves). So I say a mix of the old and new could be a good route when using a fantasy species.


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## julienlegault

I agree with the fact that if they aren't important to story, don't use them. My work currently has a mix of different races; elves are a part of it, as well as fae creatures, but with their own unique appearances and twists. There are also other more inventive races I've been toying with, but whether they are important to my current work is the question. They will probably be best saved for later.


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## Addison

I wouldn't say that dwarves, elves and such have become too common either. What happened was one person put them in a book and hence made a stereotype of which future authors have followed. They've cut fat and added differnt things to that stereotype to make it their own but they're still following this original example. A good way to get a fresh view of these races is to pick a culture and look into their lore and mythology. It worked for my vampire novel. I looked up italian vampires dating back as far as I could find and have a whole book outlined. Find a culture or country that appeals to you and dig deeper.


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## Jabrosky

I've written one short story featuring elves, orcs, and humans, but I subverted the cliches for all three races. The elves were the bad guys, the orcs were more sympathetic, and the humans were African tribesmen rather than the standard medieval Europeans. Beyond that, I prefer my fantasy to have only humans. It's not that I don't like cultural diversity in my worlds---quite the contrary, I love it. I simply don't think each culture has to be its own species in order to have that diversity.

That said, I do like those sapient races that aren't hominins or even primates. For instance, lizardmen are cool.


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## Mindfire

Fairly early on in the development of my WIP I replaced all my "stock" fantasy races with variations of humans instead. Works fine for me, and I think it actually adds depth. Now instead of 5 races that have one or two stereotypical traits each, I have one race with lots of variation and diversity.


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## Addison

Most of my races follow traditional names; mermaids, elves, dwarves, gnomes etc, but look into lore and mythology to base them in. There are a few races I made myself. Zantharans and Kharls. The Zantharans are people with natural connections with the Spirits and have a natural ability to shapeshift into the creature they are most like.  Kharls are a breed of warriors. A pure Kharl has thick hair, muscle bound and tribal tatoos signifying their rank in society. Their trademark is glowing orange eyes.


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## Zero Angel

I don't think it's necessarily that the stock races are overused, but rather that whatever race is going to be used, should be used for a reason. Putting a bunch of unknowns in your story for "uniqueness" would end up confusing the reader unless every race that exists there _fits_ into your world-build. 

I love designing my own original creations, but I also love examining the oldies and putting a new spin on them or presenting them in ways they have not been done before.


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## M.F.Hart

Creating something new, is reason why I started with writing. In my stories I created few races, that haven't been used in other stories. I also used some races that is known pretty well. For instence people or fairies, but I'm also trying to use them in way they have not been used before. It's always better to create something new, than do a copy of something someone alredy did...


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## Zero Angel

I like new things. I will say that though that if you create this awesome new race that turns to fit the exact same roles as an established one with only superficial differences, then you may be better off to go with the established one. Their very status of being established can make the difference in your story.

That is my opinion anyway.


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## Frog

Is it just me, or is this discussion the mirror image of the "D&D races" thread?

Here's my thing on new races:  if you've got a sweet idea for a new race, go for it.  But if you really like Dwarves, and you would really like to do a story about a stocky race of people who dwell in caves in the mountains and wield axes, for the love of God don't try to make that race anything other than dwarves.  As soon as I see an author doing that, I immediately assume that they're covering up their lack of imagination with new jargon.  If you want to tell me a story about dwarves, just tell me a really cool story using dwarves.  There is nothing wrong with that.

In other words, don't call a rabbit a smeerp.

That said, if you can generate a sweet new race, with their own set of issues and characteristics, then awesome.  Do it.  The whole point of this being fantasy is to cut the imagination loose a bit.


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## Steerpike

I think someone who has successfully used a wide variety of "new" races that are, in many ways, identifiable as more traditional races, is Steven Erikson. He certainly has a unique spin on them here and there, but people have compared Tisti Andii to elves, for example. But in Erikson's world, it works. What's more, the world came out of a home-brew AD&D (and later GURPs) campaign, which is something writers are generally told to avoid doing.


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## Feo Takahari

As a side note, the Five Races and their evil counterparts are useful frameworks with which to create new species. (For instance, my first attempt at a large fantasy story involved an alliance of orcs, dragons, and living shadows. I didn't realize it at the time, but though I tried to make the living shadows unique, they fell pretty easily into the Eldritch category--and it was a good fit for them, balancing them against their Savage and Fallen allies.)


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## ScipioSmith

Frog said:


> Is it just me, or is this discussion the mirror image of the "D&D races" thread?



It's not just you.


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## Bersli

you can use Shakespearean fairies, who's physical features are not described a lot during the plays so that's up to you BUT these fairies are cooler then average pansy fairies. Shakespearean fairies can turn invisible, see gods and the more powerful fairies can control the weather, so when the get all aggro lots of natural disasters happen.

there are aoelves (I think that's the right spelling) who are half elves half humans.

ratmen (skaven) originally showed up in Warhammer fantasy tabletop game but haven't really been touched since.

bipedal dragon things are good too, as are humanoid bird thingies (like harpies except more birdy)


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## Steerpike

Skaven are popular in the fiction, though. One of them from the Gotrek and Felix series even has some books of his own.


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## Konstanz

Grey Seer Thanquol you mean? I love Skaven  They are just so comically evil. If you've read the first omnibus of Gotrek and Felix you'll understand what's so delightful about them (I hope). The way they backstab each other but then manipulate themselves to believe "it's for the good of all Skaven" or the way they see running away (and leaving their troops to die) as a tactical retreat is just hilarious to read. 

I personally don't mind if you use the standard races. Warhammer did and they used a lot of clichÃ©s but they did it in a very good and enticing way (for me personally). They didn't just make dwarves in mountains, they gave them a thing of their own (science with gyrocopters and stuff like that!)

I do agree that I hate it when authors use a race that looks like an elf, behaves like an elf and is stereotyped like an elf but then call it something else. It's not like the reader won't notice...


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## Steerpike

Konstanz said:


> Grey Seer Thanquol you mean? I love Skaven  They are just so comically evil. If you've read the first omnibus of Gotrek and Felix you'll understand what's so delightful about them (I hope). The way they backstab each other but then manipulate themselves to believe "it's for the good of all Skaven" or the way they see running away (and leaving their troops to die) as a tactical retreat is just hilarious to read.



Yes. Thanquol is a great character. Talk about self-delusional. I agree regarding Warhammer - it is a nice universe with lots of great lore and a lot of great fiction surrounding it.


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## Zero Angel

Bersli said:


> you can use Shakespearean fairies, who's physical features are not described a lot during the plays so that's up to you BUT these fairies are cooler then average pansy fairies. Shakespearean fairies can turn invisible, see gods and the more powerful fairies can control the weather, so when the get all aggro lots of natural disasters happen.


I like some of Shakespearean fairies. I use the names and positions anyway. 



Bersli said:


> there are aoelves (I think that's the right spelling) who are half elves half humans.



I've never heard of these. What are they from?


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## Bersli

I've never heard of these. What are they from?[/QUOTE]

I used to be really into MMORPGS when I was younger and  Aoelves were one of the races


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## KorbentMarksman

JCFarnham said:


> Speaking of Alternative Fantasy Races I believe I'm obliged to point you in the direction of this little rant by a person who goes by the handle, Limyaael [if you know of her I don't have to mention the addictive nature of her writing rants, but otherwise, you have been warned, I spend far too much time reading these haha].
> 
> limyaael: Other Species Equal-Time Day.
> 
> Its entitled "Other Species Equal-Time day".
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> Personally I'm taking Limyaael's advice and have a tweaked version of the firebird of slavic folklore as a character. Good times.



Thank you very much. I needed something akin to a savage mount in my book and the Karkadanns sound like an excellent idea.


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## It's a Squirrel...Moose?

I feel that there is an undue obsession with 'races' when it comes to fiction. At times when reading a story you get the sense that the person is writing less for the story and more to get the most bizarre civilization award. The great strength of humanity is that the race by itself doesn't require any race building which can directly infringe on the actual act of story telling. Indeed, the desire not to full into the 'elves, orcs, dwarfs' cliche is increasingly becoming a cliche within itself - and I almost get the impression that when a complex race is described it is there increasingly for vanity's sake.


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## Zero Angel

It's a Squirrel...Moose? said:


> I feel that there is an undue obsession with 'races' when it comes to fiction. At times when reading a story you get the sense that the person is writing less for the story and more to get the most bizarre civilization award. The great strength of humanity is that the race by itself doesn't require any race building which can directly infringe on the actual act of story telling. Indeed, the desire not to full into the 'elves, orcs, dwarfs' cliche is increasingly becoming a cliche within itself - and I almost get the impression that when a complex race is described it is there increasingly for vanity's sake.



I think that fantasy races fill a niche that humans cannot hope to fill precisely because of their mundane-ness. I do agree that sometimes authors get a little masturbatory with their world-building/race-building, and that frequently they can put this effort into a race of humans or a kingdom, but sometimes it just makes sense that there are alternate races or that they developed in different ways or at different times. 

For me I have dragons created the multiverse which was polluted with demon atoms, then the dragons engineered life and it blew up in their faces. When they tried to curtail the explosion of life towards something more draconic, they created dinosaurs. When they got out of hand, they ripped apart the dimensions to summon a comet to the planet, inadvertently creating a permanent gate with the elven dimension, which flooded through to this side. With the permanent gate between the two dimensions, a between realm was created where life-forms from both sides were pulled in and became the faerie folk. With so much alien magick in the form of the lifeforms that were elves, the planet popped out a counterweight called dwarves. The elves molded the mammalian progenitors into the tauren races (minotaurs, centaurs, harpies, icthaylians, humans, giants, merfolk, etc) to serve as their slaves. Then the elves that loved this planet more than their previous formed a permanent bond to the planet becoming sylvan elves. But the counterweight that was the dwarves was now unbalanced, and so some became gnomes. Then the humans and their allies overthrew their elven overlords and banished them back to their own dimension, inadvertently locking magick out of this dimension (or at least making it very difficult) and forming countless pocket dimensions where magickal creatures sheltered. Humans developed technology and their own civilization, which eventually evolved into the Galateans or Galts, which overthrew the humans. Then a multidimensional doomsday device destroyed the seal on magick, unleashing all of the magickal creatures that had been locked in subRealms and reopened the gates to the faerie folk and elven dimension. Then about 30,000 years later, my first book starts.

So all of these creatures filled a very tangible role in the creation of my planet (and in fact this is just a brief overview--I left off about 15 billion years of pre-history before the creation of the multiverse, the introduction of water, what happened to the demon atoms, the creation of the orcs and laorcs, lycanthropes and hydras, Earth Gods, the undead, Neanderthals, the genetic monstrosities of the humans, and all sorts of other creatures, but they all fit and make sense I feel and I could not imagine it any other way). 

I do agree that I do not care for when a fantastic race fills a role that humans could. Nothing turns me off more from a fantasy novel than the mundane.


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## Mindfire

Zero Angel said:


> I think that fantasy races fill a niche that humans cannot hope to fill precisely because of their mundane-ness.



I disagree with this. Eventually during the process of my WiP's creation I abandoned races altogether, having made them, bit by bit, into nothing more than unique human civilizations. At some point I realized it doesn't matter whether my forest-dwelling hunter-gatherers have pointy ears or not. They can be magical and interesting with or without them. Likewise for my desert-dwelling fire mages, mountain-dwelling lightning ninja clan, etc. A well developed human race can easily substitute for elves, dwarves, etc. if you put in the elbow grease.


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## Jabrosky

Zero Angel said:


> I think that fantasy races fill a niche that humans cannot hope to fill precisely because of their mundane-ness.


Why would humans be any more "mundane" than any other race?

I don't have any WIPs which feature any sapient race apart from humans, but whenever I have experimented with worlds featuring multiple fantasy races like elves or orcs I have always made the humans stick out from the other races. In these worlds, since the elves et al. occupy the world's temperate and polar regions, humanity stays in the tropics where it evolved, so my humans all retain dark skin and other "Negroid" physical features which visually set them apart from the other races. My humans also tend to have proportionately longer legs and less body fat than the other races, allowing them to run faster.

Of course, in the story I'm currently working on, humans are the only hominins present, so they've spread all over the planet and evolved a variety of physical appearances corresponding to the different habitats they settle in, not so different from humans on Earth.


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## It's a Squirrel...Moose?

Human 'mundane-ness' has the issue of not being true - look at our world, it is inhabited by humans, but each nation and 'ethnic' group demonstrates a vast and fascinating strata of cultures, appearances and personalities - there's nothing mundane about us at all, we are just used to human interaction so it seems 'boring.'

The other great benefit of humanity is one of simple realism: we know that humanity works. Someone can't go 'that's unbelievable' - like one could with say... unicorn people. Perhaps even more helpful, we can relate with humans much more easier: whilst with fantastical races the simple race gap inevitably creates an issue. What I find is that in trying to solve this problem people try try and 'humanize' the race in question - which sort of defeats the point of coming up with a completely different race to begin with.


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## Steerpike

"Mundane" also means something that pertains to earth, or to our world, as opposed to something not of the real world. By that definition, humans are certainly mundane. Any non-human sentient race you want to include, then, is not mundane. 

There's no approach here that is inherently right or wrong. If you want to use just humans, there is nothing wrong with that. You certainly don't have to proceed in that manner, though, and the use of stock fantasy races as well as completely invented races is just fine.


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## Zero Angel

I just think that by being something that we all have experience with, humans are mundane in their very existence. If you paint them up and magickify them, then they become less mundane, but also less human. I think that behavior is very important too. Humans should ultimately act human, while alternate races might have alternate moralities, philosophies or unique religions. 

Can you give these to human? Sure, but I can experience humans every day--I cannot experience elves and orcs every day--thus, humans are mundane.


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## Mindfire

I honestly think the only reason humans end up feeling mundane next to other fantasy races is because they are so often made into the "Mario" race: not particularly specialized at anything. Jack of all trades, master of none, etc. And compared to magical elves, engineering dwarves, and barbarian orcs, that kind of "all around" or "balanced stats" race is pretty boring. But they're boring because the writer didn't work hard enough to give them something cool to do, not because their intrinsically mundane.


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## BeigePalladin

I agree with mindfire; humans end up the boring, mundane but adaptable race because the writer finds it easier to say humans are boring" and just go with that.

I like races if theyir thought out, and if they're not there to simply represent a different country with a different race, I think they can be made to be intresting if you work on them and use logic - I feel you need to actually define how their different from humanity, rather than where they live and how they look. but I feel the effect you get out of them is equal to how much effort you put into them

Though thi holds true for elves, orcs and dwarves as well as any "new" race.


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## Feo Takahari

Zero Angel said:


> I just think that by being something that we all have experience with, humans are mundane in their very existence. If you paint them up and magickify them, then they become less mundane, but also less human. I think that behavior is very important too. Humans should ultimately act human, while alternate races might have alternate moralities, philosophies or unique religions.
> 
> Can you give these to human? Sure, but I can experience humans every day--I cannot experience elves and orcs every day--thus, humans are mundane.



I can't prove this, but I believe that no human is capable of constructing a truly inhuman philosophy. That is to say, the only way a human writer could portray a nonhuman who follows a philosophy no human could follow would be to write that nonhuman's actions completely at random, and justify them with gibberish. Look at the religion of the Aztecs, or at Chinese Legalism--neither bears much resemblance to how humans in most fantasy novels think and act, but both were human-made.

This is not to say that nonhumans can't be used for things humans are harder to use for, but I think it's a matter of their inhuman traits shaping them in a direction the humans around them don't normally go, not of those traits making them necessarily and irrevocably different from humans. (For instance, vampires may be inclined to self-justify that they're stronger than humans, and deserve to live by killing them, but a reasonably complex and interesting vampire may reconsider this philosophy, or a reasonably complex and interesting human may adopt it to justify his own brutality against other humans.)

(Then again, my entire schtick as a writer revolves around differing people coming to understand each other perfectly, for better or worse. My friend Sessalisk writes heavily about differing people failing to understand each other, so she might have a different opinion on this . . .)


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## Zero Angel

Feo Takahari said:


> I can't prove this, but I believe that no human is capable of constructing a truly inhuman philosophy. That is to say, the only way a human writer could portray a nonhuman who follows a philosophy no human could follow would be to write that nonhuman's actions completely at random, and justify them with gibberish. Look at the religion of the Aztecs, or at Chinese Legalism--neither bears much resemblance to how humans in most fantasy novels think and act, but both were human-made.
> 
> This is not to say that nonhumans can't be used for things humans are harder to use for, but I think it's a matter of their inhuman traits shaping them in a direction the humans around them don't normally go, not of those traits making them necessarily and irrevocably different from humans. (For instance, vampires may be inclined to self-justify that they're stronger than humans, and deserve to live by killing them, but a reasonably complex and interesting vampire may reconsider this philosophy, or a reasonably complex and interesting human may adopt it to justify his own brutality against other humans.)
> 
> (Then again, my entire schtick as a writer revolves around differing people coming to understand each other perfectly, for better or worse. My friend Sessalisk writes heavily about differing people failing to understand each other, so she might have a different opinion on this . . .)



I agree for the most part here. I don't particular care for something completely alien precisely because I get a Cthulu revulsion from something totally alien, I was just saying that you can go that route. I think that you can construct alternate philosophies by differing the axioms but using logic to carry them out to their inevitable conclusions. This still uses mathematics so it is grounded in the real world and is something a human can do. For Cthulu-style aliens, you could also vary the mathematics of logic by changing some of the math axioms and carrying those out to their inevitable conclusion. 

An example of this is if 1+1 = 3, then this alters quite a lot about mathematics and makes many things inconsistent. Then that means that 2 * 1 = 3, but what is 2? Does 2 exist? Lots of different ways we can go here. 

I definitely agree that it is just easier to take the fantasy races and have what makes them fantastic shape them in their direction, but I would go further and say that I think that it makes more sense to do this with fantasy races then it does to alter humans and use them. Again, if I want nothing but humans, I will read a non-fantasy.


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## ALB2012

I don't see a problem with elves and dwarves etc. There are now so many demon/vampire/lupine books around and elves etc have fallen out of favour but I don't see a problem with either. Yes they are often over used but I think you can have stock races and still have an individual story. No one moans if humans are involved, or dragons. Use elves, dwarves, werebeasts etc so long as the story is original. Tolkien was not the first, he simply is the one who made them popular.

Nothing wrong in usually established character classes in a new way. Or even in a similar way if the story is good.
I think having a character which is basically an elf and then giving it some fancy name is a bit sneaky. Its an elf.. call it an elf.

Look at Shadowrun/Earthdawn trolls and orcs, they are not the violent barbarian or stupid thugs, they don't turn to rock etc etc. Elves are usually slightly faster, more agile etc but that is simply a racial thing. 
Sure make up new races but I bet they will be influenced by pre existing fantasy races.

Earthdawn has Tskrang- lizard men, so does Warhammer, but they are evil. It also has stone men.
I think a lot of people can relate to the standard races and feel comfortable with them. If not, fine, can't please everyone.


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