# Stuck on Some Magic-Related Names



## Mindfire (Jun 23, 2012)

First a brief explanation. In my world there are three basic categories of magic:

Good
Evil
Non-magic*

My question actually relates to the first two categories. Good magic was given to humanity by the creator. The cosmological origins of evil magic are irrelevant to this thread. Suffice it to say that it manifests as a corruption or counterfeit version of the magical disciplines that fall into the first category.

There are three separate disciplines or schools of Original magic: Soulfire, Shadowhand (or Silvanhand, I'm still deciding), and Runespark. Detailed explanations of these are below in spoiler tags. Each of these three has an evil counterpart whose description I have also included in the spoiler tags below. For example, the evil counterpart of soulfire is called _dragon_fire. 

Now that I've gotten the exposition out of the way:


What would be a suitable name for the body of evil magic as a whole?
Between "shadowhand" and "silvanhand", which is better? *EDIT:* This question has been solved. Thanks!
What would be a good name for shadowhand/silvanhand's evil counterpart? *EDIT:* This question has been solved. Thanks!
What would be a good name for runespark's evil counterpart?

The latter two questions are those that chiefly stump me at present. Thanks!





Spoiler: Magical Disciplines



*Soulfire*
Generation and manipulation of a special kind of "living" fire that has properties differing from normal fire and almost has a mind of its own.  Its users apply their imagination and creativity to achieve varied, unique, and sometimes staggering feats through its use. Soulfire is also unique in that it is the only magical discipline that allows the user to _create_ (fire) elementals.

*Shadowhand/Silvanhand*
This talent manifests as a limited ability to manipulate the natural world and also grants exceptional reflexes and agility, the ability to camouflage by changing one's skin, and the power to transform weapons and into things of light or shadow. Its users, a tribe of forest-dwelling hunter/gatherers chiefly use the last power in conjunction with arrows. Light arrows can deal powerful damage, and shadow arrows are invisible unless you stare directly at them, although they can still be "sensed" by those blessed with this power. Seers, who are very powerful in the art, can even walk on water.

*Runespark*
Those blessed with this talent have an inborn quality that reacts with a special substance called "thunderstone" that occasionally falls from the sky. This interaction enables them to use that substance to generate massive amounts of energy that can manifest as powerful arcs of lightning. The skill is not only useful for combat, as advanced masters can use this power to simulate a kind of teleportation. The users of this gift most often smelt thunderstone into a grey-black metal called "thundersteel". The purified metal has less raw power but is lighter and easier to make use of and is typically forged into swords and armor. These weapons are then marked with runes to bind them to an individual user.

*Dragonfire*
Dragonfire manifests as a magical flame of eerie green or sickly yellow-green color. Whereas soulfire encourages creativity, imagination, and strategic thinking, dragonfire is mainly used to overwhelm an opponent with sheer, brute force. Extremely powerful practitioners can create the eponymous dragons, which are, in this universe, not true animals or sentient creatures, but rather a corrupt kind of elemental.

*Counterpart of Shadowhand/Silvanhand Bloodcraft*
The philosophy behind Shadowhand/Silvanhand encourages adaptability and harmony with the natural world, since its users are forest-dwellers. On the contrary, its evil counterpart bloodcraft encourages the twisting, perversion, and manipulation of nature for one's own gain. The Wendigo, a race of amazon-witches, used it to fuse woman and beast in such a way as to produce lycanthropy, so that their greatest warriors could change at will into cat-woman creatures. One of my prominent antagonists uses this power to create chimeras, which he plans to use as biological weapons.

*Counterpart of Runespark Hexas?*
Runespark, as an art, encourages precision and clarity in action and thought. Its main tactics are stealth and surprise, and its creed is embodied by the lightning bolt: strike hard, strike fast, strike true, and then vanish. On the contrary, its evil counterpart encourages pride, ostentation, catharsis, and sadism, and is generally used as a method of torture or to inflict a slow, lingering death on the practitioner's enemy. It can also be used to project illusions into the minds of others, and to view remote locations through enchanted objects, such as mirrors.





*Non-magic is termed so because it has the _appearance _of magic, but is actually natural rather than supernatural in origin. The only art so far that falls into this category is gravencraft, which utilizes trained and bound elementals to do the will of the user. But since, in the context of this world, elementals are merely animals (but a different _kind_ of animal from the ordinary sort), the feats which gravencraft accomplishes can be likened to the way we might train dogs or ferrets to do tricks in our world, so they aren't really magical.


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## BeigePalladin (Jun 23, 2012)

looks pretty cool system.

onto them questions:

1) well, I guess that depends on what your people refer to magic as (I'm assuming magic, as they also have something called non-magic, or is that just a placeholder?). if they do call it magic, then dark magic or black magic would still work. other ideas could be to pervert the current phrasing of spirit gifts (eg: devils gifts or something like that), or maybe something accociatd with thievery/despoliation?

2) I'd say shadowhand simply because I don't know what silvan means or if its accicated with certain people/races etc. you could also have one as the subform of the other, a more speciliazed version with a different name - still the same thing at heart but much more focused on one part of it?

3) things that come to mind from the description; lifebringer, alchemy, deathshand, blightshand

4) Painspark, shadowbrand, spitelance. though I don't get th stealth part of runespark from its own description 

though, as a note, despite how you describe the other three types as "evil" they don't really seem that, well, evil. y'know...


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## Mindfire (Jun 23, 2012)

BeigePalladin said:


> looks pretty cool system.
> 
> onto them questions:
> 
> ...



Thanks for your help. As for them being evil, their evil nature is a direct cause of the world's cosmology. From our perspective they might not seem so bad... until you see them at work and in context, in which case they're pretty horrifying. Also it should be noted that the mere act of using them puts one into contact with dark forces that will eventually dominate the mind and drive one to insanity or complete mind-slavery. So yeah. It's not as much the immediate effects that make them evil, but rather their source and their affect on the user. "Devil gifts" would be something of a double misnomer I'm afraid. First because there is no "devil" per ce in this universe, the closest thing they have to that are the Grey Lords. And as for "gifts" they're more like "Faustian pacts".

Runespark may not seem particluarly "stealthy" in and of itself, but the people who use it use it with a very precise, surgical approach, which makes it work well toward that end. The idea is a bit counter-intuitive, but that just makes in more awesome in my opinion. I mean, lightning ninjas! Do I really _have_ to explain why it's awesome?

and silvan means "relating to the forest".


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## BeigePalladin (Jun 23, 2012)

@ Evilness: I suppose, though it just feels a little counterintuitive that these abilities are all but decreied as evil when I can see a lot of them being anything but evil (or even better than the non-evil version). I realize that this may be counterintuitive to your world, but since they both come from spirits/beings, maybe make them usually good/evil - because, as you said, its the _source_ that matters not the powers themselves? maybe have a potent enough practitioner of one be able to access the counterpart in a limited variant.

@ lack of devil: you say dark forces that will dominate your mind and take over, I say potato  you gie a pretty effective devil right there  soon devil's/demon's boon? and many gifts are given with the intention of getting something in return 

@ Lightning Ninjas: so long as they're not orange. also, you may want to remove the mention of it being a stealthy power if thats a personal choice rather than part of the power 

@ Slyvanhand: well then its even less apropriate since the abilities described do much, much more than just forest.

also, a quick question, is there any advantage to using the "evil" version, as it seems to come with a much greater cost, and due to the fact the abilities are publicly evil also seem designed to get the ol torches and pitchforks coming after you if you have them? I'm struggling to see why anyone right now would _want_ to use them.
In fact, right now they're described as worse and more costly (evil shadowhand has no stated counterpart to the normal versions light/dark control. Evil runespark dosen't seem to have the forging/energy resevre or teleporting etc. evil soulfire is identical but a different colour, which bears unfortunate implications ...)


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## Mindfire (Jun 23, 2012)

*Re: Evilness*
Maybe if I explain more about how the natures of the two differ. I assume you're speaking mostly of dragonfire and of runespark's evil counterpart. Why Shadowhand's counterpart is evil is quite obvious: it perverts nature in a shamelessly sadistic fashion. Chimeras and lycanthropes aren't produced by careful selective breeding. It's the forced merging of two different creatures and an extremely painful and cruel process that generally produces mindless raging monsters. Only the most powerful practitioners can become lycanthropes themselves without going fully insane. As for the other two, the evil nature of the corrupted form becomes more clear when you compare it with the original. Soulfire is about imagination, creativity, light, and energy. You can use it with evil intent (any gift can be perverted, even if it comes from a divine source), but you're not going to be as effective or powerful as if you had used the gift in its intended fashion. By contrast, dragonfire is all about hatred, rage, aggression, destruction, and brute force. It's about dominating the will of an opponent with your own until you destroy them completely. Even the fire produced is different. Soulfire is warm, illuminating, like a torch that can be used to light a pathway or to drive away a wild beast. It is the light that chases out the darkness. Dragonfire is more like a gnawing hunger ready to break loose at any moment and consume all in its path. It is greed, lust, avarice, hatred, and other negative emotions manifested in a purely destructive form. The difference between runespark and its evil counterpart is even more pronounced. Runespark is about precision and clarity.  Its counterpart is about sadism pure and simple. A bolt from a runespark practitioner strikes once and achieves its goal: either an instant knockout or an instant death. (Or near-instant anyway.) Its evil counterpart however is used to inflict pain simply for the pleasure of inflicting pain, like Harry Potter's crucio curse. (And I instantly regret using that analogy. It hadn't occurred to me before now, honest. I was thinking more about force lightning from Star Wars.) Its users often amuse themselves through prolonged torture, often ending in death but not always.

Is the difference clearer now? And asking whether the evilness is a product of the practitioner, the source, or the art itself is looking at it the wrong way in a sense. Because the answer is yes. By yes, I mean "all three." The arts come from an evil source, and are thus evil in and of themselves. They cannot be "baptized" simply by _attempting _to draw power from a different source. That would be like reading John 3:16 during a demon-worshiping ceremony and calling it Christianity. More than a bit absurd.

*Re: devil*
Well, it might be semantics, but I consider it an important distinction. My novel is a form of speculative fiction. Therefore, while it has certain elements that may resemble real world theologies and mythologies, it should be clear that the world itself does not actually _contain_ those theologies and mythologies. Christianity belongs to our world and our world alone. If you went to Vard (the world my stories take place in) somehow and casually mentioned The Devil, they'd have no idea what you meant.

*Re: lightning ninjas*
No orange. I promise. xD

*Re: name*
Shadowhand it is. Thanks! 


The evil versions aren't "publicly" evil, at least not in the countries where they're most likely to be used. In some countries they're outright banned, for obvious reasons. But in other places they're not seen as evil but rather as "mysterious", "arcane", "mystical". As for your question about the evil versions having advantages, no they don't really, which is rather the point. Allow me to explain. I'll try to stay light on unnecessary exposition. The main reason people (and there are relatively few of them) seek out the dark arts are your classic reasons anybody turns to evil: over-ambition, greed, jealousy, dissatisfaction, desperation, etc. This may seem foolish, but in the context of the world it makes some sense. The people who chase after evil generally think themselves somehow "above" the notion of evil. That they are strong enough or smart enough to be able to control the uncontrollable. This is a theme we see over and over again and it applies here as well. In some cases, the desperate or greedy, or arrogant are helped along to their erroneous conclusion by the fact of magical scarcity. You see, the good versions of the magical disciplines were given to specific nations and people-groups. In other words, your capacity to use magic is largely determined by birth. 

There are some workarounds to this, which is where "non-magic" (and yes that is a placeholder) comes in. Absolutely anybody can learn skill with non-magic if they have a "knack" for it, and even if they aren't a natural they can still learn, although it will be harder and they'll never be quite as good as a natural would be, just like real life talents. However, with regards to "real" magic, unless you're born a Mavarian, you can't just learn soulfire. And if you're not born a Mako or a Kazian Raider, you can't learn Shadowhand or Runespark respectively. It remains to be seen if there are exceptions to this rule. The creator may decide to gift an "outsider" with magical abilities, but this is the way it is _right now._ 

It should also be noted that the nations that have been given magic are also the most spiritual nations. This does not mean they are inherently morally superior, only that they have a greater degree of spiritual clarity than the other nations do, which allows them to receive these gifts. Make of that what you will. But bear in mind that at one time, before mankind was sundered into separate nations, magic was an ability common to all people. The sundering of nations is what caused the spiritual discrepancies and lack of magic for some peoples. In other words: it's their own fault.

Bearing that in mind, you can see how a very arrogant and selfish person from a non-magic country could come to the conclusion "I'm better than them, I should have magic too!" and then fall into the error of seeking out the mysterious, arcane, and ultimately the dark and corrupting, rather than simply humbling himself and asking the Giver.

Also, the evil magic is in some senses more limited because I concur to a degree with Tolkien's opinion in this area. Evil cannot truly create, it can only corrupt and counterfeit.

Not sure I follow you on the different color fire = unfortunate implications thing.


Oh and on second thought, the evil versions have a couple advantages. Like the dark side of the Force, the evil magics do not require any real kind of spiritual discipline to master, only ambition, pride, the willingness to channel ones negative emotions and desires. Also, runespark's evil counterpart has one advantage: you don't need a special substance or anything outside yourself in order to use the power.


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## Amanita (Jun 24, 2012)

First, let me tell you that I quite like the general sound of your magic system. The powers you’re using sound interesting and likely to offer material for interesting situations. I agree that shadowhand sounds better for your second power, silvan sounds a bit too exotic next to the other terms, it’s quite are rare word which soul and rune obviously are not and as others have mentioned, the powers don’t only apply to the forest. For the other names, you’ve already gotten a few good suggestions I think.

Something else I’d like to mention though: As I can see here, magic systems obviously often have much to do with writers’ personal believe and you don’t have to read what I’m writing here but some aspects do bother me quite a bit. Especially the fact, that access to “good” magic obviously is a question of “race”/birthright. Reading a story with such a concept, I’d be quite likely to sympathize with the group trying anything to get over such inborn differences. Not knowing anything specific about your story I might not if I knew more, but that’s my immediate reaction to what you’ve written here. 
If we like it or not, the desire to acquire weapons as powerful as those of the opposing side of a conflict seems to be a deeply-rooted human desire and it’s quite understandable given the fact, that this might be all that stands between existence and destruction of a society. And your “good” powers have quite destructive uses as seen in the Cantina thread. 
I don’t view that Wendigo species as that evil according to what I know by now either, but maybe I don’t know enough. 
I could see a member of the magic-less nations thinking: “I need to have powers that allow me to defend my home from being invaded and plundered and burned down, my wife and daughters from being raped, my children from being killed and whatever else is likely to happen to the defeated in a war and I don’t care about the costs this is causing me.”

Of course, this is your story and most people probably wouldn't mind, but I'm feeling quite strongly about this issue and that's why I decided to tell you hoping, that I didn't offend you. I don't really know what these groups are looking in your mind after all, and maybe I did get something wrong.


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## Mindfire (Jun 24, 2012)

You didn't offend me. But you know the irony of it all is that those people who claim to want only to defend their homes are generally the ones _actually_ doing the invading. The people that have magic are generally isolationists and don't bother with the outside world much. The practical reason for this is that the farther they get away from their homeland, the less powerful they become. The Cantina is non-canon so I added some flare to make things interesting. In _reality_ however, many of the things I had Reuben do there he would only be able to do if he was reasonably close to his homeland. So the idea of a massive magic-user invasion is just a myth that leaders use to rile up their people. Also, even if there was a real threat, I don't think that would excuse a (pardon the phrase) "deal with the devil." Also, evil magic is not a very effective way to arm your soldiers en masse because while it doesn't require discipline per ce, it does require a force of will that no everyone has. Some people, if they saw this stuff, would be scared out of their wits and run the other way. My antagonists get around this inconvenient fact however, by inventing guns.  Also, those who stumble onto evil magic tend to be those obsessed only with self gain, not those legitimately trying to help out the common man.

And its not as if the non-magical countries don't have their own advantages. Beorgia has near-complete sea dominance and the most powerful navy in the world, not to mention an elite order of assassin-priests skilled enough to challenge most magic users. And Elyssia is the most industrialized country at this point, pursuing science and technology while the other nations are content with maintaining their traditional lifestyle.

It should also be remembered that there was a time with everyone had magic. The fact that some nations don't have it now is a product of their own decisions. Interestingly, the magical nations are also generally more spiritual than the non-magical ones, which is a factor. I'm toying with the idea of allowing a non-magical character to gain magic after a spiritual experience.

Does that explain?


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## Mindfire (Jun 25, 2012)

Thanks to those who helped for the input. I settled on shadowhand as a name and chose the name "bloodcraft" for its evil counterpart.


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## Queshire (Jun 25, 2012)

I can't say I agree with you blanketly labeling the three counterparts as evil, but oh well, it's your story. They seem like twisted reflections of the original magic to me, maybe do something with that? Maybe call them Shards or something? For the counterpart to runespark how about stormlash? It has the connection to electricity and lash makes you think of whips or other tools of toture.


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## Mindfire (Jun 25, 2012)

I'm considering also giving runespark's counterpart the power of producing illusions in people's minds and being able to scry through enchanted objects, like mirrors.

@Queshire, what exactly do you object to? Opinions are welcome here. Encouraged in fact.


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## Queshire (Jun 25, 2012)

There's plenty of ways you can use the counterparts for good or at least neutral.

Bloodcraft could be used for healing or fixing disablities like a broken spine but fusing an injured person with a healthy animal. Old or injured warriors could volunteer to be fused with whatever to keep fighting. It could be seen as a sign of status in whatever culture to be fused with some beast. Instead of tradtional technology they could be based around bio-tech, fusing creatures to serve their purposes instead of building machines. Etc and so on.

The pure destruction of Dragonfire can be useful too. Say there's a cave in, or a building collapse. If you can just get rid of those rocks and debris think of how many lives you could save. And of course, like the old saying goes, the best defense is a good offense, a barrage of arrows is useless if they get burned to nothing before they can hit, etc.

The third one is a bit harder, but I can easily see it being used as a weapon of honor among some culture. Duels betwen users of the ability without the risk of death, etc. It'd be also more useful for training, I mean, you can't spar with somebody else if you kill / knock them out in one shot, and what if you need to disipline without incapacitating? Not even prisoners but say cattle? A slight shock would help in keeping a herd in check.

EDIT: Basically, what I'm trying to say, even if "corrupted" it's still what you do with a thing that's evil and not the thing itself.

EDIT again: But again, it's your story so if you want any use of those magics to automatically condemn your soul for all eternity that's your choice.


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## Mindfire (Jun 25, 2012)

Points taken, Queshire. These ambiguities are my fault. I should have made it more clear that the very nature of the dark arts makes it _impossible _to use them honorably in the same way that using the Crucio curse out of just anger weakens it in the Harry Potter universe. 

Regardless, these ambiguities are something I'd not previously considered and I will give them more thought. Maybe I can come up with some revisions to clarify things. But I should say that fusing a person with an animal will always be squick to me, no matter what the intent is. But that's more about my sensibilities than anything else.


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## Mindfire (Jun 26, 2012)

I've decided to call runespark's counterpart "hexas" until anything better comes up.


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## Caliburn (Jun 29, 2012)

Names for the evil, counterfeit magic as a whole:
- Anti-magic
- Malfeasance
- Malefic
- Ersatz

ok so the evil counterpart of a magic school works in the opposite way to it's Original version? Can't think of anything yet.


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