# Disabilities in fantasy lit?



## Aravelle

Anyone seen them? I sure haven't, especially with the antagonist. The worst I've seen is them getting a bad injury and it eventually being healed, sometimes miraculously.


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## Elder the Dwarf

Look at The Highwayman by R.A. Salvatore


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## Ireth

One of my roleplaying characters is a vampire with a clubfoot, and another is a profoundly deaf werewolf. Both were born with their disabilities, and neither of them are healed at any point.


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## Telcontar

I've seen plenty, most often in the case of amputations necessitated by battlefield trauma. I vaguely remember a man who was paralyzed from the waist down, cared for because of his vast knowledge and wisdom.

That, of course, is the trick. Who cares for them? Generally fantasy is set in a pseudo-medieval land of some sort, and life was a bit less forgiving then. People who could not contribute in some way did not tend to live long, because the care could not be spared to tend to them.


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## Ireth

*shrug* My RP is modern fantasy, so my disabled characters take care of themselves.

Another example of disabled characters in fantasy are Maedhros and Beren from The Silmarillion, both right-hand amputees. Maedhros had his hand cut off in a life-or-limb decision by his friend Fingon, and Beren had his hand bitten off by an evil wolf. Neither of them regained their hands, but Maedhros learned to use his left hand with even more skill than he'd had with his right one. It's unclear how much Beren had adjusted to losing a hand before his (first) death, or if the body he had when he was brought back to life retained the injury.


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## Elder the Dwarf

There are at least a couple in ASOIAF as well.  There are many clubfoots (clubfeet?) in fantasy, such as Vanek from Waylander.  Blindness is not uncommon.


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## Feo Takahari

It seems pretty common for a character to be missing a hand or an arm. (Other examples include Dag in _The Sharing Knife_ and Tenel Ka in a variety of _Star Wars_-related media.)


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## Telcontar

Yes. It's a common, serious-yet-non-mortal wound for characters to receive.


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## Ophiucha

Even in actual mythology, it was pretty common. Tyr and Nuada as a couple of examples of people losing a hand/arm.

On a slightly different calibre, sensory disabilities are rather common. Blindness, deafness, etc. Muteness, as well. Usually, those sorts of disabilities in fantasy are sort of... serving some greater, fantastical purpose? The blind seer, can't see what's in front of him but can see just about everything else. Most mute characters are also telepathic. Toph, a blind girl from _Avatar: The Last Airbender_, learned from a bunch of moles the secrets of earthbending and could 'see' by feeling the earth beneath her. Even other disabilities often have that. Characters who are missing an arm or a leg tend to get them replaced with badass steampunk ones.

In the Percy Jackson series, I seem to recall the main character had dyslexia? Except it wasn't really dyslexia, he just could only read Ancient Greek (since his dad was Poseidon - no, that doesn't really make sense, but hey, fantasy), so English words looked weird and skewed to him.


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## Sheilawisz

In one of my stories (even though it's written in a style different to my other stories) the main character was born with black and white vision, so she had no idea what colours were and they were a mystery for her!!

Then, she got a special medicine for her eyes as a birthday present when she turned seven years old, and when she finally discovered a world full of colours she nearly went crazy with joy and excitement =)

She called them _Magical Light_.


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## Ankari

Rand had the insanity issue in Wheel of Time.  He also suffered a wound that would never heal.

Jaime Lannister (I won't say more because people may be reading/watching the series)

Tyrion Lannister is a dwarf.

Brandon Stark is paralyzed from the waist down.

Hodor


It's been done.  Seems like George Martin seems to consider it a lot more than other authors, but its common enough.


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## Kit

I'm making a point of putting a whole bunch of disabled characters in my WIP. Their duties are very dangerous, and injuries/deaths are common. It wouldn't be realistic to have everyone still be able-bodied. Most of them can still contribute to their community.


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## Jess A

There is a character in my story who is mentally handicapped - similar to Downs Syndrome, I suppose. She's of high birth.

Chade, the fellow with the poked face - Robin Hobb. She is most unkind to her characters in general (to help them 'grow'). Nicholas who has a club foot - Raymond Feist (but the character 'healed' himself later). As mentioned above, Brandon Stark. I do see blindness a lot, and burned faces/bodies, also scars and missing eyes (usually the antagonist or due to battle scars). Leprosy is another. Even Sara Douglass, though on a different level. Some of her winged people lack wings. It could be considered a disability in their culture. Having wings and cumbersome bird feet was a 'disability' as far as Kate Forsyth's character Lachlan was concerned - he failed to fully return to human form after being cursed into the shape of a blackbird by a witch. Sickly children/adults is another I see, particularly with the higher classes and royalty (also notable in our history).


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## Chilari

Fantasy does not easily lend itself to dealing with disabilities, because the nature of stories often involves characters travelling great distances, getting involved in fights, living in locations unsuitable for disabled people, or other plot requirements that mean you need able-bodied characters. Often when disabilities are used, they're used as a plot point rather than just a character facet - someone has had an injury to their shoulder which means they can't lift their right arm above their head, so when someone attacks from above they cannot defend themselves easily, for example. In terms of learning difficulties, something like dyslexia just wouldn't crop up in any fantasy story whithout 21st-century Earth elements, because in most pre-industrial societies, literacy is fairly limited, usually to elites, so most people never get the opportunity to discover it and those who do don't stand out as having a learning disability because they've been taught something so few people know that there's just not the sample size there to differentiate between someone who has had limited education and someone who has had more buy struggles with it.

It would be good to see more examples of characters simply living with disabilities without their disability being a plot point - or a source of bitterness for the character. I'm planning on having a character in the story I'm currently planning who is a war hero but was injured in that war to the extent that he has difficulty walking. After a decade of living with it, he has gotten past the bitterness and just learned to live with it, finding ways to be useful and productive to his family and community without needing to use his legs too much - by decorating ceramic vessels and teaching elite young men about military strategy on a theoretical level, including things like morale. Dispite being a commoner, because he's a hero he has access to and influence over the military side of the government of the town and is a community leader. He still lives in a house that has steps between every room (the whole town is built on the side of a steep hill so this is standard) and getting to the palace at the top of the hill takes twice as long for him as anyone else, even with help from his nephew, but he has learned to deal with it because he will not allow himself to be a burden on his family (except his nephew) or his community.

It would certainly be interesting to see a character who is autistic in a fantasy story, but would take a lot of research - and probably personal experience - to get it right.


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## Jess A

Chilari said:


> Fantasy does not easily lend itself to dealing with disabilities, because the nature of stories often involves characters travelling great distances, getting involved in fights, living in locations unsuitable for disabled people, or other plot requirements that mean you need able-bodied characters. Often when disabilities are used, they're used as a plot point rather than just a character facet - someone has had an injury to their shoulder which means they can't lift their right arm above their head, so when someone attacks from above they cannot defend themselves easily, for example. In terms of learning difficulties, something like dyslexia just wouldn't crop up in any fantasy story whithout 21st-century Earth elements, because in most pre-industrial societies, literacy is fairly limited, usually to elites, so most people never get the opportunity to discover it and those who do don't stand out as having a learning disability because they've been taught something so few people know that there's just not the sample size there to differentiate between someone who has had limited education and someone who has had more buy struggles with it.
> 
> It would be good to see more examples of characters simply living with disabilities without their disability being a plot point - or a source of bitterness for the character. I'm planning on having a character in the story I'm currently planning who is a war hero but was injured in that war to the extent that he has difficulty walking. After a decade of living with it, he has gotten past the bitterness and just learned to live with it, finding ways to be useful and productive to his family and community without needing to use his legs too much - by decorating ceramic vessels and teaching elite young men about military strategy on a theoretical level, including things like morale. Dispite being a commoner, because he's a hero he has access to and influence over the military side of the government of the town and is a community leader. He still lives in a house that has steps between every room (the whole town is built on the side of a steep hill so this is standard) and getting to the palace at the top of the hill takes twice as long for him as anyone else, even with help from his nephew, but he has learned to deal with it because he will not allow himself to be a burden on his family (except his nephew) or his community.
> 
> It would certainly be interesting to see a character who is autistic in a fantasy story, but would take a lot of research - and probably personal experience - to get it right.



Why does this bring Bates to mind (Downton Abbey)? 

In any case, I like the sounds of your character. In real life, such a person would gain my respect.


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## Chilari

Ha, Downton Abbey is awesome. When's season 3 coming? They do make us wait! Bates is one of the best characters in that.


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## Sheilawisz

Would black and white vision be considered a disability for a Fantasy character??


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## Feo Takahari

If we're talking about our own characters, I'm using alexithymia as a model for a disorder one of my characters suffers. (It's a magical curse, so it's not true alexithymia, but I think research on alexithymia will help me write the curse in greater detail. Basically, this character is incapable of directly recognizing what emotions she's feeling, though she can puzzle them out from her physical reactions--for instance, she might not realize she's sad unless she starts crying.)


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## Aravelle

My two heroines in my WIP each have a disability [at least I think they'd count as one]. One is dyslexic and another has albinism.


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## Jess A

Chilari said:


> Ha, Downton Abbey is awesome. When's season 3 coming? They do make us wait! Bates is one of the best characters in that.



I've only seen the first episode (and bits of later ones) so far. I just got season 1. I already like Bates' character quite a bit - he just gets on with the job. I particularly liked the end of the episode when the earl practically dragged him out of the motor vehicle. We get things late here in Australia; season 2 has only just been advertised. That's not to say I can't order it from the UK or elsewhere. Do you have season 2 on DVD in the UK yet?

----



Sheilawisz said:


> Would black and white vision be considered a disability for a Fantasy character??



I think it would be considered something of a 'disability' if the rest of the people in the character's society (or species) have colour vision, particularly if having colour vision makes life that little bit easier. A disability depends on the society. As I mentioned earlier, Sara Douglass has a race of bird-winged people. Not having wings would be a disability in their culture/society, but as they otherwise appear to be human, an Icarii lacking wings would function perfectly fine in human society (in the context of her novels).


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## Chilari

I think we have season 2 on DVD; I think it came out right before Christmas. I didn't bother with it because at the time the season was still fresh in my mind from seeing it on TV.

But as you say (back on topic) something like not being able to see colours would be dependant on the society. If, like the Greeks, their impression of colours was more tonaly based (they called the sea wine-dark, for example, and the sky was "bronze" - which is more about the tone and quality of light than the colour, of course. Unless someone has been drinking some very strange wine.) then not being able to see colours doesn't present a problem because the language used to describe things isn't about colour but tone. If your society has a very strong sense of colour, with myriad words for different colours and colour being a primary descriptor and discerner of things, then the difficulty in discerning between bright yellow and pale pink because they just look the same shade of grey is going to be quite a setback.


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## Alva

Jean Tannen from the book series _The Gentleman Bastards_ has really poor eye sight. In _Earthsea_ both Ged and Therru bear scars on their face. Therru, mistreated and burned when a child, also has trust issues and an injured hand. There are so many other books and stories and characters as well, but can't possibly remember them all.

In my work there are a few blind characters or characters with remarkably poor eyesight. I've always been interested in vision and eyesight, and also read a few biographies concerning on the topic. In my current writing project blindness is nothing unusual as it is concidered to be (troublesome but) relatively common trait among the population. All my blind characters are more independent and headstrong than not, and only three of them have or have had the need for a fulltime servant to prepare their clothes and keep places clean and in order for them.

I also have one dyslexic character who has enormous trouble with writing _anything_. His guardian is convinced that he has something going on with his unusually high energy levels, as well (in our terms: symptoms of ADHD). Though of course, his guardian is far from authorized clinician. : )



Chilari said:


> It would certainly be interesting to see a character who is autistic in a fantasy story, but would take a lot of research - and probably personal experience - to get it right.



One of my characters has "symptoms" pointing towards high-functioning autistism. Nonetheless, I wouldn't call him autistic as his family and society around him don't even recognize such a word. As far as the story and his surroundings are concerned he's only a supporting character having some pecualiar likes, traits and tendencies. (But "a very important person" when his parents are given the say.) His other parent also shows some characteristics similar to his child, but in a milder manner. I'm not intending this to be any sort of statement at all. The characters in question simply developed to such a direction.


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## Mindfire

Arguably the greatest genius in the world of my WiP is a dyslexic. I'm thinking either he prefers not to keep notes on his discoveries and just memorizes everything, or he might invent his own private alphabet and writing system that makes it easier  for him to read. Or maybe both. Also, I thought up this great ending where the day is saved not by my main character, but by my main character's crippled son.


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## Alva

Mindfire said:


> Arguably the greatest genius in the world of my WiP is a dyslexic. I'm thinking either he prefers not to keep notes on his discoveries and just memorizes everything, or he might invent his own private alphabet and writing system that makes it easier  for him to read. Or maybe both.



Ah. I've been considering notekeeping, too. *nod nod* My character is of scientific type and keeps a lot of diaries of different forms that only he can fully understand and appreciate. But what comes to the assignments his guardian keeps handing over... The guardian in question has pleaded for at least a dictionary in order to be able get any sense to the unreadable scribbles and scrawls and angry graphemes of frustration.



Mindfire said:


> Also, I thought up this great ending where the day is saved not by my main character, but by my main character's crippled son.



: D Would be a bit different from the norm!


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## Weaver

As with so many other things, I think that writers need to be careful how they portray disabled characters in their stories.  You never know when the person reading your story has the disability you've given your character.

There's a character in a few of my stories who is lame from having his left leg badly injured and never properly healed.  Not only does this cause him a lot of difficulty with activities like running or climbing, but it also causes him constant pain.  This does _not_ prevent him from being an effective character; he's not a sidekick who sits out when the action starts.  I didn't choose to write the character this way because I'm physically disabled - at least I don't think I did - but I've encountered a few readers who have told me that I'm 'doing it wrong' in how I describe the character because he doesn't fit their preferred stereotype for "disabled person."


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## Reaver

Mindfire said:


> ...but by my main character's crippled son.



Crippled? Are we in the 1970's or something? I know you're talking about a fictional person here, but come on. You're the last person I'd expect this from man.


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## Mindfire

Reaver said:


> Crippled? Are we in the 1970's or something?



What's that supposed to mean?


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## Anders Ã„mting

I think some minor characters in Elantris are supposed to have, like, varying degrees of autism or something.



Mindfire said:


> What's that supposed to mean?



Yeah... If you are crippled then you're, well, crippled. As in: Back when I totally ruined my thumb, I was crippled, because I couldn't use a rather important part of my body. 

I don't really see how it's a disparaging word.


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## J.D. Hallowell

"Crippled" describes me pretty well. So does "disabled". I am not "differently abled" or "handicapped" or any of those other euphemistic terms that people use to make themselves feel better about the fact that there are some of us who have significant limitations. I don't think "crippled" is an offensive term. 

Other crippled people might feel differently.


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## Aravelle

Reaver, how is that offensive? I mean, what other term is there?


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## Weaver

J.D. Hallowell said:


> "Crippled" describes me pretty well. So does "disabled". I am not "differently abled" or "handicapped" or any of those other euphemistic terms that people use to make themselves feel better about the fact that there are some of us who have significant limitations. I don't think "crippled" is an offensive term.
> 
> Other crippled people might feel differently.



Y'know, I was just thinking about this yesterday.  I strongly dislike the term "differently abled," too.  

I have a chronic pain condition that is, at this very moment, making life difficult for me.  My hands ache, my legs have informed me that I'd better not plan on doing much walking around today, and generally I feel like that invisible gnome with the rock hammer has been using said rock hammer on my joints - luckily for me, just the flat end this time instead of the pointy end.  There are days when I cannot walk without the use of a cane; the problem has been that bad since I was in my late 20s, although I've had it all my life.  And on top of that, the same neurological problem that causes the pain also messes with my ability to see, because my eyes don't focus properly sometimes.  I can see the tiny image of the statue of Lincoln on the back of a US penny, and I can see 6 of the Pleiades (the most that are visible to anyone with the unaided eye) in a clear winter night sky, but I cannot see well enough to drive a car.

I have mixed feelings about the term "crippled," but it all depends on context.  I've been called a "useless cripple" (or even "retarded cripple") far too often by people who seem to think that walking with a limp is indication of mental deficiency.  Clearly, this is intended as an insult.  On the other hand, I'm not offended if someone merely describes me as "crippled," provided all they mean is that I've got some physical limitations.

I'm _not_ "differently abled."  That term implies that I got something in trade for what I lost, and that isn't true.


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## J.D. Hallowell

Weaver said:


> I have mixed feelings about the term "crippled," but it all depends on context.  I've been called a "useless cripple" (or even "retarded cripple") far too often by people who seem to think that walking with a limp is indication of mental deficiency.  Clearly, this is intended as an insult.  On the other hand, I'm not offended if someone merely describes me as "crippled," provided all they mean is that I've got some physical limitations.



Exactly. People can use nearly any characteristic as an insult if they are determined.  The sneering comment "What else would you expect from a ____________?" can be completed with anything from "liberal arts major" or "engineer" to "Christian", "atheist", "cripple", "Gator fan", or "person who drives a Buick."



Weaver said:


> I'm _not_ "differently abled."  That term implies that I got something in trade for what I lost, and that isn't true.



This is my beef with the word "handicapped", as well. In original meaning, a handicap is a scoring burden placed on especially skillful players so that weaker players aren't completely outclassed. It equalizes opportunity. The person with the handicap has advantages that other players don't, so they incur an artificial penalty to make the game fair. To use the term "handicapped" to refer to people with significant impairments implies that they somehow have other nebulous advantages that cancel out the effects of the impairment, so that everyone is on a level playing field. It minimizes and dismisses the very real obstacles that people with disabilities face every day.


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## Mindfire

J.D. Hallowell said:


> "Crippled" describes me pretty well. So does "disabled". I am not "differently abled" or "handicapped" or any of those other euphemistic terms that people use to make themselves feel better about the fact that there are some of us who have significant limitations. I don't think "crippled" is an offensive term.
> 
> Other crippled people might feel differently.



"Differently abled" sounds really condescending to me. It just feels like you're downplaying or marginalizing the significance of the disability. To give a more extreme example, it feels like saying "Get out of that hospital bed! You don't have terminal cancer! You're just "differently healthed!"


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## Shockley

I was thinking about this, and I realized one of my favorite fantasy bad guys is disabled.

 Limper.


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## Ireth

A classic example of a literary character with a disability is Shere Khan in _The Jungle Book_ -- the wolves mention that he was born with a lame paw, from which he gained the nickname Lungri, the Lame One.


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## Mindfire

Ireth said:


> A classic example of a literary character with a disability is Shere Khan in _The Jungle Book_ -- the wolves mention that he was born with a lame paw, from which he gained the nickname Lungri, the Lame One.



They must have left that bit out of the movies.


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## Ireth

Mindfire said:


> They must have left that bit out of the movies.



They did. Along with Kaa being a friend/mentor to Mowgli, teaching him some of the animal languages and helping save him from the monkeys. I haven't read TJB in a while, but I'm sure there are many other things Disney left out.


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## Mindfire

Ireth said:


> They did. Along with Kaa being a friend/mentor to Mowgli, teaching him some of the animal languages and helping save him from the monkeys. I haven't read TJB in a while, but I'm sure there are many other things Disney left out.



You mean Kaa WASN'T evil? Dangit Disney! I love you, but you can't even get FAKE history right!


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## Ireth

Mindfire said:


> You mean Kaa WASN'T evil? Dangit Disney! I love you, but you can't even get FAKE history right!



Sad but true. And every adaptation I've ever seen mispronounces Mowgli's name -- the first syllable rhymes with "now", not "no". I only found that out recently, but it's bothered me ever since. Like the way animated adaptations of LOTR mangled the elvish language. >_<


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## Mindfire

Ireth said:


> Sad but true. And every adaptation I've ever seen mispronounces Mowgli's name -- the first syllable rhymes with "now", not "no". I only found that out recently, but it's bothered me ever since. Like the way animated adaptations of LOTR mangled the elvish language. >_<



Hmmm... call me a philistine, but I kinda think the wrong pronunciation sounds better.


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## Weaver

Aravelle said:


> Anyone seen them? I sure haven't, especially with the antagonist. The worst I've seen is them getting a bad injury and it eventually being healed, sometimes miraculously.



Getting back to the original question here...

I cannot recall seeing an antagonist in fantasy fiction who had a physical disability.  (I'm assuming the question refers to physical disability specifically, as it mentions injury.)  I'm sure they're out there, though, since it used to be common shorthand for "bad guy" to give the antagonist something like a hunchback or a twisted limb.

I think that many writers avoid giving their antagonists any kind of disability because 1) they don't want to give readers any reason to pity the villian, 2) they don't want to be accused of suggesting that an unsound body equals an unsound mind, or 3) since the hero is judged in part by how powerful his enemies are, the evil overlord needs to be as formidable as possible.

These are all valid reasons not to tack a disability onto your antagonist.  

If you're considering giving ANY character a disability merely for the sake of causing the reader to feel pity/sympathy for them, don't do it.  For one thing, it will come across as shallow manipulation of the reader's emotions.  Readers _want_ their emotions manipulated (I, at least, cannot imagine the appeal of any work of fiction that doesn't make me _feel_ something), but they want it done skillfully, not in a way that is hamhanded and blatant and probably ineffective to boot.

You don't want to be guilty of equating disability with evil.  In real life, disabled people are no more - and no _less_ - likely to be good or bad than any able-bodied person.  So you don't want to be guilty of equating disability with some kind of moral superiority, either.

It is a common trope in fiction to have a hero who is physically powerful but of average intelligence, versus a villian who is physically deformed in some way but an evil genius.  Occasionally you see it the other way around:  the smart, unathletic kid versus the big strong bully.  (I do not understand why fictional people apparently have to be either/or when it comes to intellect and strength, and I doubt I will _ever_ understand - real life shows me that this is not how things work - but the trope is nearly ubiquitous.)  This creates a kind of balance between the characters; each has an advantage that the other lacks.  And obviously, if the evil overlord was a pushover, we wouldn't admire the hero for defeating him.  Instead, we'd ask, "What took you so long?"

No one seems to consider vampirism a disability.  I wonder why.


In contrast to physical disabilities, antagonists with _mental_ disabilities are a dime a dozen.  How often do we see Evil = Crazy = Evil?  (Or, on the flip side, Crazy = It Isn't His Fault He's a Serial Killer?)  We are less likely to see antagonists with intellectual disability (what used to be called mental retardation), perhaps for any of the three reasons listed above.  No one wants to appear to equate low intelligence with evil (and yet why is the evil _genius_ so common and acceptable a trope?), and no one wants to be offering excuses for the villian such as "He doesn't know it's wrong."  (If he doesn't know that what he is doing is wrong, he is still be an antagonist but not a villian.)  And again, if the villian is no match for the hero, we aren't impressed with the hero's ability to win in the end.


I'm probably overthinking this, but it's an interesting topic.


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## Jess A

Weaver said:


> No one seems to consider vampirism a disability.  I wonder why.



I had a character or two once who thought their lycanthropy was a disability. And I'm fairly sure I've seen that in other works of fiction too. Not sure about vampirism. Maybe.


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## Alva

Weaver said:


> As with so many other things, I think that writers need to be careful how they portray disabled characters in their stories.  You never know when the person reading your story has the disability you've given your character.



Very true.

I try my best to be careful and honest when representing pretty much anything: whether it was an illness or disability or LGBTQ relationship or religion… or any member of a group of people in question.

But still, I do want to write about a variety of things. And in real life I know so many different kinds of interesting people that I, too, (most of the time unconsciously) want to bring that part - variety - of the real world into my written work as well. I’ve at times heard people say that they’d prefer writers to only write about the things they “know about”, but I’d be fooling myself and being dishonest weren’t I to try to write about things I’m not completely familiar with, as well. At times I may do better, at times worse, but all the while I’m trying to be honest to the characters, at the very least. Since the disabilities present in my stories don’t even hold any allegorical or symbolical meanings, the characters are the center of everything.

Plus, I only consider “disabled” the characters who actually view themselves somehow disabled within the context of the story. First of all, there’s no need to label everything. Secondly, from the point of view of my characters, another person should be regarded as an individual – as a whole. As a writer I can have my opinion that certain character is – for instance - having autistic traits, but in the end it’s only my own interpretation of the situation. I don’t even mean to state anything like that anywhere on the pages of my story, and since I prefer sublety in my writing, I’ll be leaving space for interpretation for the reader as well.

For instance, there are only a few “clear” illnesses/disabilities present in my main story: delayed speech, blindness, dementia and dyslexia. I’ve been writing about depression as well, but that is something I’ve once again left unlabeled and “undiagnosed”. Furthermore, I’m not going to pick up characters with certain conditions. I may be interested in eyesight, for example, but it’s not enough criteria to me. Usually characters simply develop into directions I hadn’t even speculated when I originally started writing. I prefer it that way.

What comes to the existence of any kind of personal experience: one of my closest relatives is dyslexic. She’s really smart, she can express herself in a total of five different languages and she studies music (…notes).  Even though I haven’t told her, I reckon she must have been an inspiration of some sort to me when my dyslexic main character came to be. As I’ve already mentioned, this character of mine is of scientific type and I consider him highly energetic and imaginative. He’s always coming up with ideas and points of interest. He loves exploration and is not hindered by other people’s prejudices. Quite the contrary: he is skilled at drawing, he’s good at seeking meaningful connections between things and has a healthy amount of self-confidence. His only problem is expressing his thoughts and feelings in written word. A thing that causes confrontations with his old-fashioned guardian who, unfortunately, cannot see the reason behind the text-processing difficulties.



J.D. Hallowell said:


> "Crippled" describes me pretty well. So does "disabled". I am not "differently abled" or "handicapped" or any of those other euphemistic terms that people use to make themselves feel better about the fact that there are some of us who have significant limitations. I don't think "crippled" is an offensive term.
> Other crippled people might feel differently.



Ouch. “Crippled”. I’m quite fluent in English but I must admit that at times I’m uncertain or even unaware of the nuances (and polarities) contained by certain words and expressions. I guess the situation and discussion here is a bit similar to a discussion of the same topic going on in my native language  (concerning on a word “vammainen” to those interested). Or I don’t know. In Finnish “vammainen” is completely usable and valid term, but it all depends on the context, the person using it and the tone of voice. Among other things. I personally avoid using that word at all, even though I appreciate it that a lot of people with actual disabilities are fighting for their rights and willfully using the said expression.

Well, in any case the scenario of a non-hero and in some way disabled person saving the day sounds still different. Usually heroes of the day are in a good physical condition/healthy/able to run a mile –type – whatever expression is even close to politically correct here. I’m already lost.



Weaver said:


> No one seems to consider vampirism a disability.  I wonder why.


I’m not into vampire stories but what I’ve seen and heard, I was thinking this was a more or less common trope(?) Awkward example, but isn’t it so that the Cullen’s family are considering themselves as somehow contaminated or something along those lines?



Weaver said:


> In contrast to physical disabilities, antagonists with _mental_ disabilities are a dime a dozen.  - - I'm probably overthinking this, but it's an interesting topic.



I don’t think you are overthinking. I’m very much agreeing with you here.


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## Ireth

Alva said:


> I’m not into vampire stories but what I’ve seen and heard, I was thinking this was a more or less common trope(?) Awkward example, but isn’t it so that the Cullen’s family are considering themselves as somehow contaminated or something along those lines?



They do consider themselves somehow "impure", but it's pretty obvious from the writing that vampirism is preferable over human life -- you've got nigh-invulnerability, super strength and speed, and other heightened senses. The Cullens themselves strive to stay morally "pure" by only feeding from animals rather than humans, and their whole family life is steeped in Mormon values, whether it's intentional or not. Edward calls himself a "monster" for wanting to feed from Bella, yet she constantly begs him to turn her, and this is seen as a good thing by all characters involved (except Edward, at least until he marries her).


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## Weaver

Alva said:


> Very true.
> I’ve at times heard people say that they’d prefer writers to only write about the things they “know about”,



We're fantasy writers.  We have a different definition of "know about" than most people do.


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## Alva

Ireth said:


> They do consider themselves somehow "impure", but it's pretty obvious from the writing that vampirism is preferable over human life -- you've got nigh-invulnerability, super strength and speed, and other heightened senses. The Cullens themselves strive to stay morally "pure" by only feeding from animals rather than humans, and their whole family life is steeped in Mormon values, whether it's intentional or not. Edward calls himself a "monster" for wanting to feed from Bella, yet she constantly begs him to turn her, and this is seen as a good thing by all characters involved (except Edward, at least until he marries her).



Ah well. Thank you. Now I'm once again a bit more informed. : D As said, I've never been into vampire stories. Even _Dracula_ is still waiting for his turn... and has been for years.



Weaver said:


> We're fantasy writers.  We have a different definition of "know about" than most people do.



Indeed. : ) But it's an interesting debate nonetheless, even though I'm not personally agreeing with the point.


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## plucifer

I have found that characters with disabilities should be taken as an interesting challenge of a sort. Mostly by portraying their daily routine and how said disability would affect their life. Were they born with it? Did it happen suddenly? How did they cope? etc. etc. I always find it best to do as much research as possible as well. Never want to get things wrong and offend someone. 

As for my own characters being disabled, I have a mute boy named Viktor. A blind boy and a few others that can fall in to the category of being disabled as well.


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## StuartEWise

Hey all.

Intreresting discussion, so thought I would throw my two penn'orth into the mix.

Firstly a couple of 'disabled' characters for you, first Beldin the hunchbacked, foul mouthed dwarf from David Edding's Belgariad.

More recently, Inquisitor Glokta created by Joe Abercrombie, who is a fantastically realised character with multiple injuries.

For the last 6 years I have been running a leisure centre that was specifcially designed to be Inclusive and has won a number of awards in the UK for our work with people of all ability levels and medical conditions.

Being 'disabled,' comes from society and how the person is viewed and interracted with and the opportunities that they are given, or can access - not from their medical status (which may be progressive, but is a constant).

So my advice if you are writing about a specific medical condition - blindness, amputation, cerebral palsy etc etc, is to first research the condition itself thoroughly, in all its variations. Decide exactly how it presents itself within your character, but then also have a look at the environment and society as a whole and any barriers or prejudice that exists and factor those in as well.

'In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king...'


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## Weaver

It isn't only society that decides that a person missing a limb is at a disadvantage.  _How much _of a disadvantage is what is determined by their environment, which includes other people, but that isn't the whole picture any more than the medical condition itself is.  Dyslexia didn't become _as much _of an issue until literacy became widespread, but the brain quirk that causes it was still there and still had an effect.  An autistic person who doesn't like to make eye contact with others is at less of a disadvantage _from that one thing _if they are from a culture that doesn't expect eye contact during conversation.  It doesn't mean that no one in that culture has autism or that there are not other problems they suffer because of it.

As Stuart says, the medical condition is not the whole picture.  In the right environment, the medical condition can have minimal effect.  If everyone uses magic all the time and rides around on flying carpets, being lame is not nearly as much of a problem as it would be if people have to be able to climb stairs everywhere they go.  No sense of smell could be bad for a wizard who must identify the herbs she uses for her spells, but it's a _good thing _for a lowly shoveler of fewmets.

But absolutely, how society views those with disabilities plays a large role in how the disability affects those people's lives.  It's rather a depressing topic to think about at this time of year, when the weather is turning cold and I have to wonder if my neighbors are going to cuss at me and call me a _parasite_ because I walk with a limp and therefor must be a drug addict who is living off the taxes paid by real people with real jobs... Yeah.  And that's just a mild example from modern life, when people supposedly know what causes these various disabilities and _don't_ think that epilepsy is demonic possession, or that dyslexia is either willfulness or low intelligence, or that a physical defect is punishment from God for a sin committed by one's parents.

(Side note:  There's a variation on the 'one-eyed man is king' saying:  "In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is stoned to death."  Sadly, I find this more likely to be true.)


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## SeverinR

In the old days we tend to write about, only the strong survived is the mentality.

Just finished watching season 1 Game of thrones.
The young boy was thrown from a tower and is a paraplegic.  He lays around for alittle while then with help sees he can still do stuff. They did a good job of showing that a rich handicapped person(noble) can survive.

In my books, I have one MC who is color blind. Not a huge problem, except the colors of trainee and full dragon riders look the same to her, thus she tries to steal from a trainee with very little.

In another, my MC is autistic, no one can connect with him until stumbles into or is called into a room and finds a dragon's egg. They draw each other into the real world and assist each other to learn.

How a character overcomes handicaps in days when they didn't have ADA(America with disablities act) makes the triumph that much greater if they can do it.

Losing a hand or part of an arm was not uncommon, and they overcame it.  You got massive sharp blades swinging wildly, there is bound to be unlucky hits or life changing injuries.  Not to mention punishment for crimes often involved amputation of a hand.


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## Guru Coyote

SeverinR said:


> They did a good job of showing that a rich handicapped person(noble) can survive.



Actually... not only survive. There is a well known scholar of ancient Rome who's works are read even today. He was blind, and it just didn't matter. In that time, it wasn't expected that you could read or write, you had servants to do that. Also, getting around wasn't an issue for a blind noble, again due to servants.

My point here is: A handicap or disability is always due to the context the people live in. In our time, not being able to read and write is a serious flaw. In ancient Rome one could be a well known scholar and author of works that survived to our times, and no one even talked about the fact that you were blind.


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## SeverinR

Guru Coyote said:


> Actually... not only survive. There is a well known scholar of ancient Rome who's works are read even today. He was blind, and it just didn't matter. In that time, it wasn't expected that you could read or write, you had servants to do that. Also, getting around wasn't an issue for a blind noble, again due to servants.
> 
> My point here is: A handicap or disability is always due to the context the people live in. In our time, not being able to read and write is a serious flaw. In ancient Rome one could be a well known scholar and author of works that survived to our times, and no one even talked about the fact that you were blind.



When I saw the quote, I thought you were going to tell me something about the boy doing more thne surviving. I haven't watched anything more then 1st season.

The higher in society the more opportunities the handicapped had.

I did forget one of the main nobles has a handicap that we don't even consider now days, he is what they call a dwarf.
No problem today, but back then...


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## Kit

SeverinR said:


> I did forget one of the main nobles has a handicap that we don't even consider now days, he is what they call a dwarf.
> No problem today, but back then...



I wouldn't go so far as to say it's "no problem" today- it's better, I'm sure, but they still get stared at.... and everyday things like driving a car and going through a grocery store checkout lane and sitting at a table are difficult without special tools and modifications. Also, many of the genetic issues that result in dwarfism come along with a bonus package of additional physical/health challenges aside from just being short.

-----------


SeverinR said:


> The higher in society the more opportunities the handicapped had.


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True, yet it was not uncommon in the past for the high crust of society to quietly get such family members "out of the way" somehow- or at least to not accord them the same treatment as a "normal" person. Even Tyrion's father refused him Casterly  Rock. (And of course I can't help but mention that Cercei was the elder and should have been heir ahead of Tyrion, but having a vagina is one of the worst handicaps of all in some societies.)


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## SeverinR

People with dwarfism have unique problems, but I wouldn't go as far as to say they are handicapped just from being little.
They do have unique medical problems common to little people.

In the past, the rich could get away with hiding or even kulling the handicapped "embarrassment". 
Even in history(all periods), rich people do seem to believe they have special privledges in regards to laws that commoners don't.


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## ALB2012

J.D. Hallowell said:


> "Crippled" describes me pretty well. So does "disabled". I am not "differently abled" or "handicapped" or any of those other euphemistic terms that people use to make themselves feel better about the fact that there are some of us who have significant limitations. I don't think "crippled" is an offensive term.
> 
> Other crippled people might feel differently.



Interestingly I am reading your book at present JD and I thought it was an interesting encounter and history between Delnor and the blacksmith- a man disabled by an accident during wartime. The smith still had a thriving business and was a respected member of the community. He was not bitter about his injuries - he was alive and he he managed to get around, pursue his profession and get on with life, it was Delnor who had the guilt over it.

My novels have a mentally handicapped minor character. He is only mentioned briefly as he is just a minor character. B He does not speak much and has difficulty understanding and making himself understood. He could not care for himself as things like cooking a meal are beyond him BUT he is not stupid. He is extremely good a number of things and the main character prizes his skills highly and makes sure he is cared for for those needs he cannot manage. He is simple and complex.  In book 2 someone comments about him and is told to watch and see what he can do. The character is unlikely to ever be a major character simply because I have no call to use him as such but he will remain around. He is useful, he serves his employer well and is respected by him.

I can't remember which book it is but a character in one of the cadfael books is missing a hand. In Memoirs of a Geisha Mr Nobo is not only missing an arm but has bad burns but he is a major an important character who is respected and liked.

My old Starwars character had a bad limp and although she healed it was never fully repaired, she also had a drug addiction and was seriously ill and she was a jedi.


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## ALB2012

The office where I work has a large number of people with one or other form of disability and many who do not. Everyone is treated with respect (as far as I have seen) and do their fair share. Some people need adaptations to the work place,but then again I have a fractured in my back, carpel tunnel and possibly something as yet undiagnosed so I have a special mouse, allowed extra breaks etc. People adapt and it annoys me intensely when people are rude or ignorant to others. People are people, whether they have extra needs, a disability which prevents them from doing something specific or not. My cousin has a mental disability but she still has a rich life and is happy and loved.

As for fantasy I suppose it does depend on the world setting, a medieval style world people were more likely to die of such injuries but they were probably more common- the woodsman who slips with his axe, the smithy who miscalculated, soldiers before battlefield medicene but I suppose it depended on whether the said disability stopped the person earning a living. Before state support those who were unable to work often became beggers.

I do tend to agree though, in the past the baddie was seen as impaired- Richard the 3rd was not a hunchback for example. On that topic Quasimodo is the  hero in Hunchback of Notre dame, such as there is one. He rescues Esmeralda and he defends her against the man who raised him. He is mocked and beaten by the crowd but he defends a stranger and is kind.


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## Ireth

ALB2012 said:


> On that topic Quasimodo is the  hero in Hunchback of Notre dame, such as there is one. He rescues Esmeralda and he defends her against the man who raised him. He is mocked and beaten by the crowd but he defends a stranger and is kind.



Depends which version you're thinking of. In the Disney version, yes, he's a kind soul who rescues Esmeralda, helps and befriends Phoebus, etc.; in the original novel he's hateful toward all of humanity, and he is the one who kidnaps Esmeralda in a plot with Frollo. He has no interaction with Phoebus at all -- in fact Phoebus isn't even in there for more than a page or two before getting killed off.


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## ALB2012

Hmm that is true, I haven't read it for a while. I did watch the Anthony Hopkins version a while back. I try and avoid Disney.

Maybe I should read it again.


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## Aravelle

Avoid Disney?  I don't understand. I'm full aware that their adaptions aren't accurate [Hunchback, Hercules, Jungle Book, etc.] but they still have their own charm.


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## ALB2012

Aravelle said:


> Avoid Disney?  I don't understand. I'm full aware that their adaptions aren't accurate [Hunchback, Hercules, Jungle Book, etc.] but they still have their own charm.




It is hard to explaine, maybe I am just a cynic but I find them overly twee. It is also the whole trademark disney thing. "Disney's hunchback of notredame" or "Disney's snow white" as though they wrote those stories. I do appreciate the impact disney has had on entertainment and film making but they do tend to mangle things. I am just find it all a bit too nice

I worked on Disney show once as well, years back and they are utter perfectionists and work their people REALLY hard. Now sometimes this is what is needed but it seemed to go too far imo.

I just don't like the films much but they have certainly been influential and bought enjoyment to millions. I think there is just something which annoys me. Each to their own though


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## ALB2012

Homer was blind and he was a storyteller


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## Kit

ALB2012 said:


> . I am just find it all a bit too nice



Obviously you were not a five-year old in the theater when Bambi's mom died!


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## Aravelle

ALB2012 said:


> It is hard to explaine, maybe I am just a cynic but I find them overly twee. It is also the whole trademark disney thing. "Disney's hunchback of notredame" or "Disney's snow white" as though they wrote those stories. I do appreciate the impact disney has had on entertainment and film making but they do tend to mangle things. I am just find it all a bit too nice
> 
> I worked on Disney show once as well, years back and they are utter perfectionists and work their people REALLY hard. Now sometimes this is what is needed but it seemed to go too far imo.
> 
> I just don't like the films much but they have certainly been influential and bought enjoyment to millions. I think there is just something which annoys me. Each to their own though



Ah.. I assure you though, they're not as nice as they seem, if you pay attention closely. Aladdin indirectly called a man an ass. "Can You Feel The Love Tonight" implies Nala and Simba had sex.. and then there's the subtly gay characters. Even with this I admit Disney's lighter than what I normally like, but it's nice to be able to watch and be entertained by something "softer" every so often. In my opinion, focusing on nihilism and excess cynicism is unhealthy. There's enough of that junk out there when you're not looking for it.


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## Jess A

Aravelle said:


> Ah.. I assure you though, they're not as nice as they seem, if you pay attention closely. Aladdin indirectly called a man an ass. "Can You Feel The Love Tonight" implies Nala and Simba had sex.. and then there's the subtly gay characters. Even with this I admit Disney's lighter than what I normally like, but it's nice to be able to watch and be entertained by something "softer" every so often. In my opinion, focusing on nihilism and excess cynicism is unhealthy. There's enough of that junk out there when you're not looking for it.



I took a unit on social context at University. I wrote an essay about racism and Orientalism in Disney films for my exam. Aladdin and Aristocrats being just two out of many examples. 

Of course, everything is more politically correct today than it was when those films were made.

This is so off-topic that I forgot what thread we were in. Apologies.


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## Kaellpae

For a disabled/crippled character, Glokta from Joe Abercrombie's trilogy is the best example I can think of. He was tortured into the state his body is in, and he can walk, mostly. I didn't see anyone else mention him and thought I'd throw that out there.


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## Aravelle

Little Storm Cloud said:


> I took a unit on social context at University. I wrote an essay about racism and Orientalism in Disney films for my exam. Aladdin and Aristocrats being just two out of many examples.
> 
> Of course, everything is more politically correct today than it was when those films were made.
> 
> This is so off-topic that I forgot what thread we were in. Apologies.



Ah, Disney and racism.. I still get miffed when people bring up Jafar. He looks nothing like how I see an Arabic man, his face is much too long and thin. Aladdin was originally going to be a child but they made him a teen because they didn't want his mother in the picture anymore. And since he became a teen, they decided to make him attractive [not intentionally trying to add "white features"].

Lion King and the older movies don't have many excuses though..


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## Mindfire

Aravelle said:


> Ah, Disney and racism.. I still get miffed when people bring up Jafar. He looks nothing like how I see an Arabic man, his face is much too long and thin. Aladdin was originally going to be a child but they made him a teen because they didn't want his mother in the picture anymore. And since he became a teen, they decided to make him attractive [not intentionally trying to add "white features"].
> 
> Lion King and the older movies don't have many excuses though..



Can I not just enjoy the films of my childhood in peace without people going on about how un-PC they are? -_-


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## Reaver

Aravelle said:


> Ah, Disney and racism..
> 
> Lion King and the older movies don't have many excuses though..



Walt Disney's racism has deep roots:


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## Mindfire

Reaver said:


> Walt Disney's racism has deep roots:



Pretty sure that's a satire...


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## Reaver

This may be, but Walt Disney's anti-semitic views are well documented.


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## Mindfire

Reaver said:


> This may be, but Walt Disney's anti-semitic views are well documented.



Perhaps, but that particular cartoon is not evidence of them. The whole point of it was to mock the Nazis.


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## Weaver

In a possibly futile attempt to get the thread back on topic... 

Have any of you written - or read - stories in which there's a disabled character whom some readers (even yourself) would consider not really disabled not on the basis of "it doesn't impair them enough" but because that perticular condition isn't seen as a real disability (as in, "that doesn't count")?

I'm probably not asking this question clearly enough... Say, for example, you've got a character who's around 85 years old (or whatever the equivalent is for "advanced old age" for that character's species) and has bad arthritis (or similar) in his/her/its legs (limbs used for locomotion).  Since this is often considered a normal part of growing old in our society here-and-now, would it be considered "not a real disability" for a fictional character?  And does that matter?  If "it depends," how/when/why does it?

For that matter, what is the motivation for writing a story in which one or more characters is disabled?  Is it to make a point about disabilities in general?  Is it because that particular character needs some kind of impairment to move their personal growth through the story?  Is it something to make the character more interesting/less like other characters?

(All of this is only to reboot the discussion.  Of course, you're free to report me to the moderators if you feel I'm being inappropriate again.)


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## Kit

Weaver said:


> Have any of you written - or read - stories in which there's a disabled character whom some readers (even yourself) would consider not really disabled not on the basis of "it doesn't impair them enough" but because that perticular condition isn't seen as a real disability (as in, "that doesn't count")?
> 
> I'm probably not asking this question clearly enough... Say, for example, you've got a character who's around 85 years old (or whatever the equivalent is for "advanced old age" for that character's species) and has bad arthritis (or similar) in his/her/its legs (limbs used for locomotion).  Since this is often considered a normal part of growing old in our society here-and-now, would it be considered "not a real disability" for a fictional character?  And does that matter?  If "it depends," how/when/why does it?



Well, it depends on your definition of "disabled"- ie, is it 1)something that makes it difficult for you to do things, or is it 2)something that makes you and others regard yourself as someone different or less than the perceived norm?



Weaver said:


> For that matter, what is the motivation for writing a story in which one or more characters is disabled?  Is it to make a point about disabilities in general?  Is it because that particular character needs some kind of impairment to move their personal growth through the story?  Is it something to make the character more interesting/less like other characters?



There are a number of disabled characters in my story because they are performing a physically dangerous job, and it is only realistic that a lot of them die or end up disabled. 

I think I have an interesting aspect going on in which the most skilled/experienced characters are able to make accommodations and still perform their (physically demanding) job in spite of any physical disability. I don't want to say more and give away my whole plot.      But I'm finding it interesting how different characters with different challenges approach the issue.

I also find it a little annoying when every single person in a story is an attractive, young, hale physical specimen. People are more varied than that.


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## Caged Maiden

In one of my novels, I wrote a blind priestess as the MC.  I probably already mentioned that somewhere on this thread, but anyhoo... She sees with a sort of spirit sight, whereby she can see auras, energy, etc.  But she's sometimes clumsy, and is still quite blind in the real world.  

Also, as a sort of irony, her job is as a seer, working for an oracle, so she gets visions and premonitions.  

The tale is a sort of love story, where in the course of her traveling with a young man aspiring to be a paladin, he learns that she is blinding herself with herbs and toxins, and he begs her to stop.  His face is the first one she sees in fifteen years, and her whole life changes after her vision returns, because she's afraid she'll lose her magical and spiritual gifts.


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## Zireael

I've seen the "it doesn't count" approach regarding Tyrion Lannister.

I've started writing short essays on disabilities and using them in RPG games without excluding the character from action. So far, I've covered cerebral palsy and hearing impairment.

Speaking of, any such characters in fantasy fiction?


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## Ireth

Zireael said:


> I've seen the "it doesn't count" approach regarding Tyrion Lannister.
> 
> I've started writing short essays on disabilities and using them in RPG games without excluding the character from action. So far, I've covered cerebral palsy and hearing impairment.
> 
> Speaking of, any such characters in fantasy fiction?



I've mentioned here and in other threads that one of my characters is profoundly deaf. I don't have any with cerebral palsy, though.


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## Arhenvir

Weaver said:


> For that matter, what is the motivation for writing a story in which one or more characters is disabled?  Is it to make a point about disabilities in general?  Is it because that particular character needs some kind of impairment to move their personal growth through the story?  Is it something to make the character more interesting/less like other characters?



You've asked some very good questions that are going to keep me up tonight.  

I've fallen into a habit of putting a lot of _myself_ into my characters lately.  This guy has these traits, that girl has those other traits, and so on.  After I suffered a brain injury two years ago, I thought about how to write about it and have a good outlet, but I didn't want to rant in a journal entry, because that would only make me sad if I read it again in the future.  I wanted a reason to put a stronger voice behind the thoughts and feelings, in a more constructive way, a positive one if possible.

So when I revisited one of my characters in my scribbles, I thought of how she would cope with it, and all the limitless possibilities she has in her fictional world that I don't in real life.  How is this going to affect her ability to cast spells?

Well, there's this to think about, but I have also decided that this is going to move another character's personal growth in great strides.  He's so arrogant and self-absorbed he can't normally be bothered to think about someone else's struggles.  I think that becoming friends with her is going to make him grow up a little bit, and learn humility, and other things.


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## pmmg

I have a character in my own fantasy who lost a leg early in the tale. At the time I wrote it, I was not expecting the character to become a major character with issues to explore, but the character got new life in book 2. The loss of the limb dramatically changed the course of his life, removed him from his warrior role and put him more as an advisor. In developing his character, I came to see him as greatly bothered by the event, and the way it has made him useless towards the things he most wants to do. He wrestles with it quite a bit, and even though good things do happen with him, he lacks the full appreciation he would have otherwise. He believes himself less capable, and that his best days are behind him. When things go wrong, he tends to blame it on his injury, and tries to find ways to cope. He has had other things happen as well, which make him a bit more complex, but I thought the injury would become a big theme in his life, and overcoming it would kind of be his struggle. He's not there yet, but I am still writing the tale. One of my beta readers pointed out that the character may win some relatability from others with injuries, which I had not considered. It does make me want to give him greater importance--though honestly, I have struggled with him as a character, he's been eclipsed by another character he is often paired with. I think he will get some bigger scenes soon though.

Not sure if the OP really needs to be answered anymore, but there have been many villain's that suffered disabilities. Darth Vader lost all his limbs, and Sauron lost a finger. Getting burned or disfigured is quite common, and also the loss of power and abilities as well. Many villains have missing eyes, more cause it looks cool, but it is still missing.


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