# Your Preferred Sub-Genre



## Philip Overby

So, sub-genres were created by publishers and some smaller writing communities to form a specific niche for their audiences.  Fantasy is known for having several sub-genres of varying popularity.  When writing, do you have a specific sub-genre in mind?  Or do you just write and worry about all that later?  I think being aware of sub-genres can help a lot when navigating where you want your work published.  Some markets will even specifically say what sub-genres they don't want (I see urban fantasy listed a lot for some reason.)  

Below I've listed several popular sub-genres in fantasy.  Do you feel like your fantasy stories fit in amongst these categories?  I can almost 99 percent guarantee your WIP at least partially fits into one of these sub-genres if not several of them.  _Most of the results paraphrased from Wikipedia._

*1.  Comic fantasy*-typically involves a comedic aspect or can be more light-hearted.
a.  Terry Pratchett
b.  Robert Aspirin
c.  Piers Anthony
d.  Monty Python
e. _ The Order of the Stick_ web comic

*2.  Dark fantasy*-a broad genre that usually includes elements of the horror genre in a fantasy story
a.  _The Dark Tower_ series
b.  Clive Barker
c.  Karl Edward Wagner
d.  Anne Rice
*
3.  Contemporary fantasy*-a sub-genre that usually includes a real world setting that includes elements of fantasy, such as magic or creatures, or uses alternate worlds
a.  _The Borrowers_
b.  _Mary Poppins_
c.  Philip Pullman
d.  Terry Brooks 
e.  _Night Watch_
f.  _Harry Potter_

*4.  Heroic fantasy*-a story in which a hero is put forth on a journey that he may or may not want to go on, in order to save the day/world
a.  _Lord of the Rings_
b.  C.S. Lewis
c.  T.H. White
d.  E.R. Eddison
e.  William Morris
f.  Evangeline Walton

*5.  Magic realism-*a style of story in which magic is presented as being a real life, normal thing and not something out of the ordinary, usually used in real world scenarios
a.  Gabriel Garcia Marquez
b.  Toni Morrison
c.  Franz Kafka
d.  Laura Esquivel

*6.  Mythic fantasy-*a style of fiction that draws from tropes, themes, symbolism, mythology folklore and fairy tales
a.  Peter S. Beagle
b.  Charles de Lint
c.  Neil Gaiman's _Anasi Boys_
d.  Susanna Clarke

*7.  Paranormal fantasy-*usually fantasy that deals with paranormal phenomenon such as ghosts, vampires, time-travel, and psychics
a.  _The X-Files_
b.  _Supernatural_
c.  _The Exorcist_
d.  Stephanie Meyer
*
8.  Sword and Sorcery-*fantasy that usually deals with heavy action in addition to a warrior type character battling malevolent forces, usually wizards, warlocks, or demons
a.  Robert E. Howard
b.  Michael Moorcock
c.  Fritz Lieber
d.  Charles Saunders
e.  David Gemmel
g.  C.L. Moore

*9.  Epic/High Fantasy-*usually these two terms are interchangeable, but this style of fantasy relies on a "secondary world" meaning a world separate from our own where the rules of physics may be different due to magic or some other aspect, also tends to be fiction that has world-wide ramifications (save the world, unite a kingdom, etc.)
a.  J.R.R.  Tolkien
b.  C.S. Lewis
c.  Robert Jordan
d.  Brandon Sanderson
e.  David Eddings
f.  R.A. Salvatore
g.  Terry Brooks
h.  Terry Goodkind
i.  Ursula K. Le Guin
j.  Raymond E. Feist
k.  Christopher Paolini
l.  George R.R. Martin
m.  Steven Erikson

*10.  Low fantasy-*tends to take place in the primary world (our world) and deals with magic as something that is not commonplace, tends toward realism, can be similar to contemporary fantasy
a.  _The Green Mile_
b.  _Pippi Longstocking_
c.  _Tuck Everlasting_

*11.  Historical fantasy-*uses elements of real history to tell a fantasy story
a.  _One Thousand and One Nights_
b.  James Stephens
c.  Evangeline Walton
d.  Katherine Kurtz
e.  _Percy Jackson and the Olympians_
f.  Steampunk-uses steam technology based in worlds similar to Victorian and Edwardian periods 
g.  Wuxia-martial arts blended with fantasy such as _Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon_
h.  Medieval fantasy-fantasy based in the Medieval period
j.  Pre-historic fantasy-fantasy based in pre-historic times such as the _Earth's Children_ series

*12.  Urban fantasy-*fantasy that takes place in a city or urban setting
a.  Laurell K. Hamilton
b.  Jim Butcher
c.  Jennifer Rardin
d.  Kim Harrison

*13.  Dying Earth-*a genre in which the world is on the verge of extinction, can be SF or fantasy
a.  Jack Vance
b.  Greg Bear
c.  Gene Wolfe
d.  Brian Aldiss
*
14.  Weird fiction-*weird fiction is named such because it was around before genres became popular so it encompasses most of what was published in the pulps of the 19th and 20th Century
a.  H.P. Lovecraft
b.  Lord Dunsany
c.  Arthur Machen
d.  M.R. James
e.  Algernon Blackwood
f.  Robert E. Howard
g.  Shirley Jackson
h.  Thomas Ligotti

*15.  New Weird/Slipstream-*a type of fiction where several different genres seem to cross over together to form a blend of each genre
a.  China Mieville
b.  Jeff VanderMeer
c.  Ann VanderMeer

*16.  Gritty fantasy-*not really a defined genre, but generally has more "down and dirty" type characters and plots, can usually be combined with other genres, no characters are safe, such as life
a.  Glen Cook
b.  George R.R. Martin
c.  Joe Abercrombie
d.  Scott Lynch
e.  Richard K. Morgan


So...

Where do you fit in?  Multiple places?  None?  Thoughts?


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## Jabrosky

4, 8, 9, and 11 are my favorite genres. I gravitates towards warrior-type characters in historical settings most of all.


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## BWFoster78

Primarily epic fantasy, but I would say that heroic fantasy also fits.

Interesting that some form of romantic fantasy isn't listed.  I'm pretty sure that there are people who make a good living writing it; a buddy was telling me about an author just last night.  I'm not talking about a romance that has fantasy elements, but a fantasy story that places a lot more emphasis on the romantic aspects; that's kind of what I'm going for.


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## Butterfly

What I am currently writing seems to fit in with 

2 - Dark 

7 - Paranormal 

9 - Epic

Fantasy


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## Steerpike

I like all of those. 

I have a hard time finding anyone who does fantasy comedy well. I like _Monty Python _and OOTS, but most of what I've read in the way of fiction doesn't do much for me (as opposed to Douglas Adams, who I think was great). I've tried Pratchett. I tried to read The _Colour of Magic_ when it first came out. I made it about forty pages in and threw the book aside. After being assured by friends that I was just the sort of person who'd like Pratchett, I've tried half a dozen of his other novels with the same result. Recently (a month ago), I tried The _Colour of Magic_ one more time. I made it perhaps 60 pages.

Despite a few smirks, the guy just isn't that funny and furthermore he's boring. Yes, it is my type of humor, and yeah I get what he's trying to do; he's just not doing it very well. Pratchett puts me to sleep.

If I had to pick favorites from the list: 2, 6, 8, 9, 13, 14, 15. I also like science fiction and horror


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## Ireth

Hmmm.

4 - my new WIP involving sentient wolves seems to fit this

5 - definitely my main fantasy RP, with crossovers into 9

6 - my Faerie duology fits this quite well

11 - my vampire novel, no doubt, as well as the tie-in and spinoff RPs


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## bjza

I tend to have favorite authors more than favorite subgenres, though my shelves lean in the direction of sword and sorcery, weird, and magical realism more than the others.

I think these preferences come down to questions like how much mystery one likes, the kind of plot devices one prefers (or disdains), and for fantasy in particular, the role we want magic to fulfill. I myself like a setting to be consistent but enjoy the unexplained. I'd rather read about conflicts that are personal or otherwordly and often find political conflicts boring. I generally lose interest if a setting feels too much like Tolkein+, if the plot concerns a hero who finds the villain's convenient weakness in the Sword of Destiny, or if the supernatural feels a bit too D&D (with comprehensible and detailed rules).

Well-written epic fantasy of the last half century avoids all that, of course. But these are the generalizations that make up a genre.


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## Christopher Wright

Where do you put Charles Williams in that? My current WIP is very strongly influenced by his work. I guess it's a combination of 3 and 6.


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## Christopher Wright

Answering my own question, partially. Wikipedia places Charles Williams in #6, so there you go.


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## Sheilawisz

My _Joan of England_ Trilogy would be a mixture of Contemporary, Heroic, Paranormal, Historic, Dying Earth and Gritty Fantasy... What an unusual combination!!

I want to create a new Fantasy sub-genre of my own =)

About my other Fantasy series... They do not fit into any of those at all.


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## Graylorne

9    Epic - not gritty

11   Historical   /   4     Heroic   /   8     Sword & Sorcery

The Epic I write includes bits of the other 3 cathegories (and probably from the rest as well)


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## Burst

My current work fits in with mythic, heroic, paranormal, comic, epic/high, and sword and sorcery... although he isn't a warrior, he's going to become a pirate... I hope that fits in there? Mine is going to be like steam-punk, but I'm going to use another element, so ima create my own genre... element here + punk. :]


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## Mindfire

4 and 9 are my absolute favorites, and they kinda overlap for me. Although I have enjoyed some type 11 (Temeraire, Wuxia) and some type 6 (Merlin tv series, Kane Chronicles) specifically. I've read a little bit of type 1 (Enchanted Forest Chronicles), though not much. I have no taste at all for 16.

And I'd put Percy Jackson under Mythic or Heroic rather than Historical. It briefly mentions some historical figures, but it's not really "historical" other than a few cameos.


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## Philip Overby

Most of the examples I've given are just samplings of what I found.  Some of these novels or others listed can fit into different types of fantasy obviously.  Percy Jackson probably would be considered Mythic first and foremost.

I didn't list Romantic Fantasy, although that's it's own massive sub-genre of romance.  And then Romantic Fantasy probably has several sub-genres amongst that category as well.

My tendency is to want to offer something that would be dark, comic, sword and sorcery, weird, and gritty altogether, with maybe some epic thrown in for good measure.


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## plucifer

I haven't thought much in to sub genres so this was fun to go through. I think I am a mesh of 2, 4, 6, 15, and 16.


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## ThinkerX

Great - a not quite clone of the list that drives me nuts at 'Duotrope' and elsewhere.

Yes, I've read an enjoyed books in most of the listed catagories.

4 and 9 might as well be one and the same.  2, 4, and 16 could probably also be combined (and are, in some versions of the list I've seen).

7 and 10 seem pretty closely related.

My own work, though...depends on the story.  Because I draw on Lovecraft, I suppose 14 would be continuous element, though 9 and 16 are also there.

And yes, Romantic Fantasy is BIG: Wattpad lists something on the order of 300,000 fantasy works (depressing), and of those about a third are 'Romantic'.  And a lot of the contemporary fantasy on the store shelves these days, is to all intents and purposes, romance.


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## Feo Takahari

I'm a punk. Steampunk, cyberpunk, dungeonpunk, biopunk, even splatterpunk--it just needs to have a little grit, a little grease, and a nice mix of the logical and the surreal.


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## Philip Overby

Feo Takahari said:


> I'm a punk. Steampunk, cyberpunk, dungeonpunk, biopunk, even splatterpunk--it just needs to have a little grit, a little grease, and a nice mix of the logical and the surreal.



I never quite understood what the -punk suffix meant.  Does it mean it's grittier?  I know what some of those are, but what is dungeonpunk?



> Great - a not quite clone of the list that drives me nuts at 'Duotrope' and elsewhere.



I don't think we had this type of list here, so it may be helpful for members that want to find markets and maybe one of these sub-genres is listed.  Like I said at the beginning, some markets will list "We don't want urban fantasy."  It helps writers to know what classifies urban fantasy so they don't waste their time submitting to a market that doesn't want it.


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## ThinkerX

I almost went and started a thread on this a while back.



> I don't think we had this type of list here, so it may be helpful for members that want to find markets and maybe one of these sub-genres is listed. Like I said at the beginning, some markets will list "We don't want urban fantasy." It helps writers to know what classifies urban fantasy so they don't waste their time submitting to a market that doesn't want it.



The problem is the numbers and definitions of the sub-genres vary from site to site. Heroic gets merged with Sword and Sorcery.  Paranormal gets combined with Contemporary.


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## Anders Ã„mting

I suppose I mostly write contemporary high heroic fantasy. Though, I try not to think about genres too much.


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## Wulvaine

Steerpike said:


> I have a hard time finding anyone who does fantasy comedy well. I like _Monty Python _and OOTS, but most of what I've read in the way of fiction doesn't do much for me (as opposed to Douglas Adams, who I think was great). I've tried Pratchett. I tried to read The _Colour of Magic_ when it first came out. I made it about forty pages in and threw the book aside. After being assured by friends that I was just the sort of person who'd like Pratchett, I've tried half a dozen of his other novels with the same result. Recently (a month ago), I tried The _Colour of Magic_ one more time. I made it perhaps 60 pages.


While it's entirely possible that Terry Pratchett simply isn't for you, just let me say that I'm a huge fan and _The Colour of Magic_ sucks. Early Pratchett is all parody, and most of it is honestly pretty bad. It's well before Pratchett found his feet in the setting or defined his own voice, the characters are still very flat, and the humor is less character-based, somehow simultaneously less good-natured and less cutting, and not really in the vein of what he does best. In my opinion, he didn't really settle into the Pratchett I love until about 1991 with _Reaper Man_. The books before have their moments, but from that point on the kind of genius that has firmly set him in place as one of my favorite authors in any genre started to blossom. It's around the turn of the decade that he figured out how to do truly clever satire in concert with great storytelling rather than weak parody for its own sake. My personal favorite sub-series is the City Watch line. If you should ever decide to give Pratchett one last chance, I'd recommend reading _Night Watch_. Chronologically, it takes place fairly late in the City Watch line but stands alone pretty well, and is in my opinion his finest work period.

As for my writing, I don't really think of it in terms of genre while writing. I have a strong tendency towards epic fantasy, though. My novel-in-progress is pretty squarely in the Sanderson camp of epic fantasy.


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## Philip Overby

I have a similar feeling about _The Colour of Magic_.  I really want to like it, but have had trouble with it.  I think I like the idea of Pratchett's writing because I'd like to read more comic fantasy.  So thanks for saying something because I may try some of these books you've mentioned.


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## rockman

I'm mostly in the heroic, mythic, sword+sorcery, and epic/high fantasy genres.

That being said, I am a huge fan of Lovecraft and Howard, so I would like to do weird fantasy.


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## Christopher Wright

...I really liked Colour of Magic. I got a lot less interested in the world after he stopped writing Rincewind.

INK AND SEMICOLONS FOR MY LORD ARIOCH


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## Aravelle

I am #14 [weird fiction] so much it hurts. I love Shirley Jackson and Lord Dunsany, and have been meaning to read Lovecraft and Machen for much too long. Heck, I had a small fanirl attack seeing their names on here!
 I definetly have a #6 [mythic fantasy] edge to go with it, though. I always have, even when I played with barbies when I was little.

As for my own tastes my favourites are #3 and #6[contemporary and mythic]. I'm _very_ picky with #4 and #9[heroic and epic fantasy]; I avoid #12 and #8 [urban fantasy and sword and sorcery] at all costs. Urban fantasy's plagued with sex, and sword and sorcery all sounds the same to me more often than not.


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## mjmonarch

#9 Like having character last as well, though not necessarily indestructible. Love action, action and more action. Let's put Michael Bay to shame.


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## ZoeBrooks

5 and 6 are my favourites. I like some realism in my fiction. 

But I do like Pratchett -_ Weird Sisters_,_ Hatful of Sky_, _Eric/Faust._ _Good Omens_ which he co-wrote with Gaiman is wonderful.


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## Kevin O. McLaughlin

Well, as a reader, I'll read any of the list. In fact, I have read and enjoyed at least something from all of those lists!

Writing wise? My main series right now blends elements of contemporary and dark. Think Buffy TV series meets Harry Dresden and you'll have an idea where I am aiming, thematically. 

I also write some things which combine elements of heroic, mythic, and epic fantasy as they are described above. I tend to often write about things that aren't world shattering, though. So, not about stopping the end of the world, but more about a specific happening that is of vital importance to those characters, but not necessarily of importance to people thousands of miles away from them, if you get my meaning.


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## Varamyrr

Well if I should categorize myself then put me in the #8,9,14 group.
Although A Song of Ice and Fire is hyped right now, I have to say that I've read very few books that can keep me entertained like GoT did. I also like GRRM's approach on his POV-characters. It allows you to see a lot of the world in a very short time. Most importantly, it is very well paced. A charateristic that I liked in 'Blood of Elves' (written by Sapkowski). Oh and let's not forget that heads should roll.


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## hyluvian

Wow... I had no idea the fantasy genre was broken down quite so much.

Like a lot of people here I can't place myself really into any single genre.  A lot of what I write tends to spill out all over the place, and I think that gives the whole story a better feel - more 3 dimensional if you will.  Items that usually find their way into my writing however, tend to include:

Comedy
Dark (sometimes, though not that often)
Heroic
Magic Reality
Mythic Reality
Epic/High fantasy
Gritty (since all things are portrayed as just being the norm I can get into the 'realism' of my own little world)


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## Steerpike

Aravelle said:


> Urban fantasy's plagued with sex...



I don't know. I read a fair amount of it and I don't find that to be the case. Thinking of more recent reads, The Dresden Files, Sandman Slim, some of Neil Gaiman, Simon Green, Kat Richardson, Emma Bull, Tanya Huff, Charles de Lint, and so on. Not much plaguing by sex in those. Sure, there are the urban fantasies that really flow over into paranormal romance that have a lot of sex into them, but the entire genre can't be so broadly characterized, in my view.


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## Philip Overby

Varamyrr said:


> Well if I should categorize myself then put me in the #8,9,14 group.
> Although A Song of Ice and Fire is hyped right now, I have to say that I've read very few books that can keep me entertained like GoT did. I also like GRRM's approach on his POV-characters. It allows you to see a lot of the world in a very short time. Most importantly, it is very well paced. A charateristic that I liked in 'Blood of Elves' (written by Sapkowski). Oh and let's not forget that heads should roll.



Love Sapkowski.  Not sure why he doesn't get mentioned more amongst great writers.  His writing style isn't too flashy (which I appreciate), but he makes up for it with cool characters with interesting and engaging plots.


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## T.Allen.Smith

I don't really have a preferred for reading. I enjoy them all. One of the great elements of fantasy is the variety offered by the genre.

For writing I tend to prefer:
Dark & Gritty combined with either Low or Urban (at least for now).


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## Aravelle

I just think of most female written urban fantasy.. like Kim Harrison, Laurell K. Hamilton, Charlaine Harris, P.C. Cast... not saying there aren't good writers in the genre. I don't even think of Gaiman as urban, honestly, not American Gods. I think of him as more mythic, as I do of Emma Bull [namely War for the Oaks].

So many of the plots sound the same to me, the formulas aren't elaborated on; the cover art is terrible, and overall it feels more like tacky wish fulfillment than anything. Not saying they're all like that.... there's just quite a few of them I wouldn't exactly grieve for if their fingers walked right off their hands one night >_>

Oh, and there's also James Patterson... Maximum Ride, Wizard & Witch.. *cringes*


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## Steerpike

Aravelle:

I've seen arguments made for Gaiman both ways, but I think Emma Bulls' _War for the Oaks_ (great book) is firmly entrenched as urban fantasy. I've even seen her given credit for starting the subgenre of urban fantasy with that book. In any event, I think there is a lot of bad urban fantasy out there, and also some good stuff


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## Aravelle

It's true, they're not all bad.. I'm just tormented by the bad and am careful where I tread in the genre because of it.


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## Ireth

Aravelle said:


> Oh, and there's also James Patterson... Maximum Ride, Wizard & Witch.. *cringes*



I don't mind the first three Maximum Ride books, though I think he kinda jumped the shark with the fourth one. The whole "save the earth" focus came right the heck out of nowhere, not to mention the spontaneous development of new powers for everyone.


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## WyrdMystic

*What's your sub genre?*

I've seen a lot of new ideas floating around from writers both budding and experienced. Recently I also read an article concerning all the different rising sub genres - not counting picking a word and sticking -punk on the end.

So, at a push, what SUB genre would you put your current/most recent work into? And, to make it worthwhile, why?

Can be existing or make up a new one - start a trend!

EDIT -

Sorry, forgot to lead by example. 

For my main work at the moment, the closest existing sub-genre is Dark Fantasy. However, its not really dark as in evil, haunting yes, but not evil. It is more bittersweet. So will have to go out on a limb and say Fantasy Tragedy (Tragic Fantasy sounds too defeatist).


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## Ghost

My everything of mine is dark fantasy when it's not horror. Some of my stories have mythic elements drawn from folk song, folklore, and fairy tales. The rest have weird elements; the characters are more well-rounded, the tone more emotional. They tend to be more graphic than the mythic stories.

I'd like to bridge the gap between the two or at least put them in the same neighborhood. The story I wrote for the second Chopped challenge comes close to doing that. I hope I can find my voice so the styles are less disparate.

For reading, most of the subgenres are fine, but I avoid heroic and and humorous fantasy. I haven't read much (any?) sword & sorcery or dying earth type stuff.


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## Gurkhal

I usually read, I think at least, Low Fantasy but I've never really put much effort to fit my reading into any particular genre.


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## SlimShady

Dark fantasy/gritty fantasy.  The heroes die, sometimes before they can complete their quests.  Some heroes turn out evil and others make great sacrifices to try to stem the tide of darkness.  Very tragic and depressing ending.


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## Jess A

I guess swords and sorcery would be my current work. Not much emphasis on 'sorcery' as much, but it is there.


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## Weaver

I don't know if there has ever been an agreed-upon term for what kind of fiction I tend to write, other than simply calling it _speculative fiction _so as not to place it on one side or the other of the (also never clearly defined) fantasy/sci-fi divide.  I don't want to use the term "science fantasy," which a lot of people seem to take as meaning "badly written sci-fi by an author who doesn't know any better."

Some of what I write is more fantasy than science fiction.  Beyond that, all I say is that I don't write sword-and-sorcery (at least as I understand the term), and I don't write high fantasy (my elves are too down-to-earth and non-magical), and I don't write contemporary fantasy as it is usually done these days (Look, Ma - no vampires!).  *shrug*


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## Steerpike

I like the term "speculative fiction." It seems to me it broadly covers fantasy, science fiction, and horror, all of which I like.


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## Mindfire

Can we have a list of subgenres to pick from?


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## Ghost

There's a list in this thread. The other thread was made earlier this month. I wonder why the two threads haven't been merged, but I suppose there's a reason.


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## Philip Overby

Thanks Ghost.  I merged the two threads now.  Also if people want to look at the initial list, they can see it on the 1st page.


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## Jess A

Ah. I see. Then mine is actually probably the high/epic fantasy, with some differences.


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## Aravelle

Ireth said:


> I don't mind the first three Maximum Ride books, though I think he kinda jumped the shark with the fourth one. The whole "save the earth" focus came right the heck out of nowhere, not to mention the spontaneous development of new powers for everyone.



And that is why I couldn't respect him even if my life was at stake. One does not simply give out powers to characters.


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## Mindfire

Aravelle said:


> And that is why I couldn't respect him even if my life was at stake. One does not simply give out powers to characters.


Maybe I'm saying this just to be contrary, but why not? So long as it's reasonably explained. Characters get new skills and powers all the time.


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## Ireth

Mindfire said:


> Maybe I'm saying this just to be contrary, but why not? So long as it's reasonably explained. Characters get new skills and powers all the time.



But it really wasn't, which is the problem. I remember something about evolutionary enhancements due to their hybrid DNA, but it really doesn't make sense. If you make bird-kids out of human and avian DNA, then they should not spontaneously become able to breathe underwater or (insert other bizarre stuff that I can't recall offhand here). Even the testing the bird-kids went through at the hands of the villains isn't really enough to explain it.


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## Mindfire

Ireth said:


> But it really wasn't, which is the problem. I remember something about evolutionary enhancements due to their hybrid DNA, but it really doesn't make sense. If you make bird-kids out of human and avian DNA, then they should not spontaneously become able to breathe underwater or (insert other bizarre stuff that I can't recall offhand here). Even the testing the bird-kids went through at the hands of the villains isn't really enough to explain it.



... Yeah, I got nothin.


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## Aravelle

Mindfire said:


> Maybe I'm saying this just to be contrary, but why not? So long as it's reasonably explained. Characters get new skills and powers all the time.



I find the doling out of powers tacky and a cheap way out of things. Unless the power is something ordinary for the species as it develops, or it has some sort of hinderances, I just don't like it. I like seeing my heroes struggle instead of power handed to them on a silver plate.


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## Mindfire

Aravelle said:


> I find the doling out of powers tacky and a cheap way out of things. Unless the power is something ordinary for the species as it develops, or it has some sort of hinderances, I just don't like it. I like seeing my heroes struggle instead of power handed to them on a silver plate.



Tacky and cheap are harsh words. I think it all comes down to how it's handled. Heroes learn new skills and are given new weapons, armor, and tools all the time. Why should this suddenly be a problem when magic is involved? Suppose new powers are needed to combat an a greater threat than has ever been faced before? Or suppose gaining new powers is a sign that a character has risen to a whole new level of awesome? For example, a formerly "normal" character being granted powers could be a sign that he has passed some kind of moral test or otherwise been deemed "worthy". That he has earned greater powers by his honorable behavior.


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## WyrdMystic

Mindfire said:


> Tacky and cheap are harsh words. I think it all comes down to how it's handled. Heroes learn new skills and are given new weapons, armor, and tools all the time. Why should this suddenly be a problem when magic is involved? Suppose new powers are needed to combat an a greater threat than has ever been faced before? Or suppose gaining new powers is a sign that a character has risen to a whole new level of awesome? For example, a formerly "normal" character being granted powers could be a sign that he has passed some kind of moral test or otherwise been deemed "worthy". That he has earned greater powers by his honorable behavior.



Or suppose that new power is entirely frickin' useless


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