# Ridiculously crazy concept...



## Elder the Dwarf (Apr 4, 2012)

So before I introduce this idea at all, I am going to go ahead and say that I haven't thought this through very well and already several flaws have presented themselves.  This is stream of consciousness posting, if you will.  I don't know if this is original, has already been done, or even if it is feasible, and I am certainly not trying it in the near future.  Maybe it will spark some ideas in our skilled group of writers, though.  Ok, here we go:

What if you wrote a novel where each new chapter was written from a different person's POV, with the catch that at the end of every chapter, the POV character dies?  Immediately flaws pop out: how will the characterization of the POV character be deep enough?  What is the point of following the rest of the chapter if we know he/she will die?  Aren't you going to run out of names for all of those characters?  (Ok, the last one may have been a joke.)  Still, think about it.  The POV characters can be surrounding characters, and you can still focus on the characterization of the non-POV characters.  Then, can you imagine the reader's feeling when a main character gets a POV chapter and they have figured out the method?  Maybe every chapter isn't plausible, but I feel like this was worth mentioning.

Perhaps, if this wouldn't work, you could divide the novel into 3-4 parts, each with its own POV.  Each POV character dies at the end of his/her section.  I'm probably going to get yelled at... but I hope this is at least mildly thought provoking.


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## Steerpike (Apr 4, 2012)

I think it can work. People can establish good characterization in the space of a short story, so there is not reason you couldn't do it for each chapter in such a work, even if none of the characters (including supporting characters) reappear from chapter to chapter. 

Susan Vreeland, in her book "Girl in Hyacinth Blue" does something similar, POV-wise, where each section of the book (I can't remember if it is organized into chapters or what) deals with different characters as a Vermeer painting comes into their lives. She also moves backwards in time with each POV shift, each character being a previous owner of the painting, until you get to the final POV character, which is Vermeer's daughter. She did a very nice job of it, and it transitions through probably 8 or 9 viewpoint characters who come into the story, then disappear entirely as she moves on to the next.


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## Elder the Dwarf (Apr 4, 2012)

Steerpike said:


> I think it can work. People can establish good characterization in the space of a short story, so there is not reason you couldn't do it for each chapter in such a work, even if none of the characters (including supporting characters) reappear from chapter to chapter.
> 
> Susan Vreeland, in her book "Girl in Hyacinth Blue" does something similar, POV-wise, where each section of the book (I can't remember if it is organized into chapters or what) deals with different characters as a Vermeer painting comes into their lives. She also moves backwards in time with each POV shift, each character being a previous owner of the painting, until you get to the final POV character, which is Vermeer's daughter. She did a very nice job of it, and it transitions through probably 8 or 9 viewpoint characters who come into the story, then disappear entirely as she moves on to the next.



That sounds really interesting.  I might have to pick it up, even though it is a little different from my normal reading fare.  Thanks, Steerpike.


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## Steerpike (Apr 4, 2012)

Elder the Dwarf said:


> That sounds really interesting.  I might have to pick it up, even though it is a little different from my normal reading fare.  Thanks, Steerpike.



No problem. Good luck with it. Always like to see people trying non-standard ideas, because I'm curious how they work out!


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## Ireth (Apr 4, 2012)

I find that an interesting idea. It could be fun to play with the causes of death. Will they all be different, or all the same? Having a little isolated village suddenly become infected with the plague or something could be interesting, as would, say, someone out for revenge killing a large group of people in a lot of varied and interesting ways.


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## Elder the Dwarf (Apr 4, 2012)

I'm glad you guys are open to the idea.  The causes of death, in my opinion, would be the fun part.  There are so many different things you could do with them.  The plague thing is something I haven't thought about (actually, so was the serial killer idea) but it works perfectly.  What if you are going through the book and character after character is dying from disease, and all of a sudden a perfectly healthy character becomes the POV character?  The reader thinks "what the hell?" until somebody pops up and murders said character.  I like that.


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## Steerpike (Apr 4, 2012)

I've read at least one novel where the viewpoint character dies mid-way through. Oddly enough, it was in first-person POV too. Then a second character took over as the viewpoint character.


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## Elder the Dwarf (Apr 4, 2012)

Steerpike said:


> I've read at least one novel where the viewpoint character dies mid-way through. Oddly enough, it was in first-person POV too. Then a second character took over as the viewpoint character.



The difference here, though, would that the viewpoint character would consistently die after every section (whether that be chapter, part, book, etc.).


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## Steerpike (Apr 4, 2012)

Elder the Dwarf said:


> The difference here, though, would that the viewpoint character would consistently die after every section (whether that be chapter, part, book, etc.).



Yeah. I don't have a problem with that


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## Devor (Apr 4, 2012)

Elder the Dwarf said:


> Then, can you imagine the reader's feeling when a main character gets a POV chapter and they have figured out the method?



It's completely doable, but you might want to think about a throughline to connect them.

For instance, each character is the target of a hit man, and someone they're connected to hires the hit man to take them out.  The hit man would basically be a hidden character who you'd catch glimpses of until the end.  Building on that concept, maybe it's a serial killer and the targets are all connected, or else they're members of a gang or a mafia-type cartel which is being targeted by a rival group.  That way there's a story which can be built and sustained through the deaths.


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## Elder the Dwarf (Apr 4, 2012)

Devor said:


> It's completely doable, but you might want to think about a throughline to connect them.
> 
> For instance, each character is the target of a hit man, and someone they're connected to hires the hit man to take them out.  The hit man would basically be a hidden character who you'd catch glimpses of until the end.  Building on that concept, maybe it's a serial killer and the targets are all connected, or else they're members of a gang or a mafia-type cartel which is being targeted by a rival group.  That way there's a story which can be built and sustained through the deaths.



I see your point, but could it be possible if that wasn't the plot?  What about a Game of Thrones type story using this setup?

By the way, if anybody gets any ideas from this thread, feel free to run with them.  I am not in any way close to writing this story.


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## Devor (Apr 4, 2012)

Elder the Dwarf said:


> What about a Game of Thrones type story using this setup?



I don't really follow what you mean.


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## Saigonnus (Apr 4, 2012)

Perhaps you can have a party of characters all into the same scenario that you introduce during the first couple chapters, and by necessity, one dies at the end of each chapter.


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## Elder the Dwarf (Apr 4, 2012)

Devor said:


> I don't really follow what you mean.



Basically, what I was asking is does it have to be a serial killer/disease/disaster type story (like all of the stories you guys are proposing, which lend themselves to the concept perfectly, by the way) or could it be a normal fantasy story?

In game of thrones, for example, (SPOILERS) Eddard's first POV chapter would be the Sept of Baelor chapter, Jory could be used in the chapter where Eddard first fights Jaime, and the deserter could be used in the first chapter.

Basically, do the people all have to be killed by the same thing, or can this device (not the right word but I'm distracted and struggling at the moment) just be used as part of the book's style?


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## The Din (Apr 4, 2012)

I like the idea. Reminds me of a chapter in Joe Abercrombie's The Heroes, where a battle is described through the eyes of the people who die in it. The POV switches to the killer, who is then killed, etc.


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## Devor (Apr 4, 2012)

It would have to be a story that warrants the number of deaths or it becomes a little bit coincidental.  It can be a complex situation, but you don't want it to look forced or unrealistic. But it depends on how many people we're talking about. Four sections isn't too demanding, but fifty chapters demands a common killer.


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## Caged Maiden (Apr 4, 2012)

Robert Asprin's Thieves' World is a good example of how this sort of thing would work.  It is a collaborative work, and each chapter is a separate story, all set within one city.  There are crime bosses, witches and mages, mercenaries, generals, princes, nobles, and religious leaders all vying for power in the city.  While the chapters don't usually end in a character's death, it would be a fun sort of concept.  In a city like that, there's a lot of death, and several chapters ended with the demise of one character and immediately we see the aftermath from a new character's perspective.


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## Elder the Dwarf (Apr 4, 2012)

Good point, Devor.  This is all theoretical of course, but I was thinking of a civil war or house war as background, although Anihow's world would suit it perfectly.  Also, Din, that is another really good idea.  It doesn't even have to be in a battle; maybe two families are fighting, like the Capulets and Montagues (ok, not a big Romeo and Juliet fan, but it was my first thought) and one assassination turns into a string of revenge killings.

I'll check out Thieves' World and The Heroes.  Both sound good.


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## Steerpike (Apr 4, 2012)

Yeah, that is a good chapter in The Heroes. If you're going to read that one, you might want to read Abercrombie's First Law trilogy first. It will illuminate a lot of what is going on. My favorite of his is Best Served Cold, which can be read as a stand-alone novel. The Heroes can as well, I suppose, but you'll get more out of it if you've read the First Law trilogy.


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## Devor (Apr 4, 2012)

Elder the Dwarf said:


> This is all theoretical of course, but I was thinking of a civil war or house war as background...



Feuding families would be interesting because you could jump back and forth between sides.  I think, let's say you planned to do about twenty POV characters and deaths, you may want a few things going on.  Two families are feuding _while_ the country is at war, in an environment that might invoke sickness.  Most people could die because the families are killing each other, but someone could be killed in war after reading and sending home letters, while an older man dies of a heart attack because of the anger and grief, and the old grandmother just dies in bed after showing the most sense.  It could even get kind of silly, in a good way.

That's just the one thought, though, for an example.  There's a lot of ways you could pull this off.


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## Elder the Dwarf (Apr 4, 2012)

Just ordered The Blade Itself.  It really is about time, I'm finally getting around to all of the recommendations from the forum.  I got the first two Thieves' World anthologies and The Heroes as well, so I'm gonna be pretty busy for the next two weeks or so.


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## Steerpike (Apr 4, 2012)

Elder the Dwarf said:


> Just ordered The Blade Itself.  It really is about time, I'm finally getting around to all of the recommendations from the forum.  I got the first two Thieves' World anthologies and The Heroes as well, so I'm gonna be pretty busy for the next two weeks or so.



Cool. I hope you enjoy the book!


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## Benjamin Clayborne (Apr 4, 2012)

The hardest part about this is doing it in a way that doesn't seem gimmicky, and that manages to connect all the chapters in some way. Otherwise it's not a novel; it's a collection of short stories. (Which is fine, if that's what you're going for.)

But I'd be wary of doing "out-there" or gimmicky story structures before mastering more traditional ones.


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## Penpilot (Apr 5, 2012)

After reading the initial post, the first thing that popped into my head was the short story In a Grove by Ryūnosuke Akutagawa. There isn't a death after every part but it's told from multiple POVs with each POV appearing only once.


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## Rullenzar (Apr 5, 2012)

It's an interesting Idea. If you feel you can pull it off then I say go for it. I can see someone who is brilliant at characterization pulling this off nicely. If you are able to introduce your characters within each chapter where it doesn't sound like info dump and continuously add to the character development of your other characters through the persons eyes that your killing off next I could see this working. That way when you get to the next character the reader already knows who they are. Challenging idea.


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## Elder the Dwarf (Apr 5, 2012)

Benjamin Clayborne said:


> The hardest part about this is doing it in a way that doesn't seem gimmicky, and that manages to connect all the chapters in some way. Otherwise it's not a novel; it's a collection of short stories. (Which is fine, if that's what you're going for.)
> 
> But I'd be wary of doing "out-there" or gimmicky story structures before mastering more traditional ones.



Oh I totally agree.  I'm not attempting this one right now, I just had a thought pop up and wanted to see if it would spark some ideas or discussions on the forums.


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