# Burning stuff



## ALB2012 (Mar 22, 2013)

I wasn't sure of the correct place to ask this question so apologies if this is the wrong place.

So I am struggling with a battle scene in my WIP.

Situation and setting - Old stone ruin, just basically a shell of a tower, with a wall around in a forest. It is a trap, but not the one on of the sides thinks it is. 

One side has 2 mages (one of whom is powerful) an assassin, a werebear, an archer and a warrior.
Other side has a LOT of armed men - who have weapons which affect magic users, but are basically grunts (except the 2 named characters) swords, crossbows, maybe bows. So medieval type weapons.

The smaller side wins (just) through various means but I want the tower to be burned but I am struggling to find a realistic way to do so without just roasting everyone. I had an idea of a flamer type weapon - just splurts out fire and molten stuff and roasts the tower. Now whilst this would work to burn the tower I think they would just burn the whole place and have done with it. They also aren't going to destroy where they think they are going so I am not sure it works.

I initially had flaming arrows but I am not convinced that would burn a stone town.  The mages are on the side who have the tower so I can't use magic fire as they won't burn their own tower.

I am a bit stuck, I like the scene around the tower but I can live without it but it is sort of a plot point.

Any ideas anyone?


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## DSCroxford (Mar 22, 2013)

I got a little confused with the question. I will try and answer by how I have read and interpreted it.

So the ones that are trying to burn the tower are the armed men right? How about just a generic gathering of wood/kindling etc that could be set alight? 

Not sure how helpful that could be.


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## Sean Cunningham (Mar 22, 2013)

There wouldn't happen to be lots of dry vines and underbrush around this ruined tower, would there? So the stones don't burn, but the dead ivy might?


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## ALB2012 (Mar 22, 2013)

What I am asking - would flaming arrows work to burn the tower, or at least cause mayhem. 

By the time anyone stacked kindling it would be noticed and they would be got rid of. It can have undergrowth or wooden vines or something. It just needs to be on fire. I wouldn't stay in a burning ruin

The people who are doing the burning are the bad guys and at range, or at least reasonably so. Some might be able to sneak up and torch it but unless there is a load of handy piled up wood it is unlikely

I am just wondering how to roast the tower, at least well enough to make the person come down. I may just have to think of something else.


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## Alexandra (Mar 22, 2013)

Fire arrow volleys at your stone tower... throw lit matches at a pile of stones or a couple of bricks and see what happens. Not much. Not much would happen to the tower either. The flammables would burn (wooden interiors, furniture, vegetation, et al) but the tower itself would easily weather the storm. Barring magic and based on your initial description of the situation neither side has the technology to do anything to your tower. The peeps knock their brains out, the tower stands.


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## DSCroxford (Mar 22, 2013)

How about some sort of pitch or oil throwing and then the fire arrows?


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## Alexandra (Mar 22, 2013)

DSCroxford said:


> How about some sort of pitch or oil throwing and then the fire arrows?



What would pitch or oil accomplish? Nothing. During medieval sieges trebuchets were often used to hurl flaming projectiles against stone-built castle walls. The walls were not breached by the fire even if the buildings within the castle's interior were burned to the ground. Until the invention of cannons stone walls were defeated by pounding them down or by mining their foundations. Fire was used for other things.


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## ALB2012 (Mar 23, 2013)

Hmm thought so...I might have to think of another scene for that. I have changed the rest of the scene a little anyway so someone  who was there now isn't who was supposed to be the rescuee. 

I think a cannon might be overkill

Thanks for the advice. No toasty tower for me... maybe someone just runs in and challenges the archer


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## Butterfly (Mar 23, 2013)

You could collapse the tower rather than burn it.

Can be done several ways, all with the use of sappers. They would dig tunnels under the main walls to compromise the structure. Where there#s no ground, there's no support.

Or ... depending on how the tower was built... it would possibly have an internal support frame built of wood kind of like a skeleton. They would dig through the outer walls and set fire to the internal gubbings. Thereby compromising the structure. Where there's no skeleton there's no holding it up.


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## ALB2012 (Mar 24, 2013)

Bah hit the wrong button....

Sadly sappers are not an option in this case but thanks for the suggestion I might keep that one in mind for the future. I think I am going to try and go for burning the outside covered in vines. The tower doesn't have to fall just be too dangerous to be inside. I wouldn't stay inside a burning tower.  

Thanks for the suggestions everyone, you have given me ideas and dismissed some ideas.


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## The Unseemly (Mar 25, 2013)

Hey, hey I see 2 mages, you could always play around with that, hmm? Burning fireballs that don't affect your own side. It _is_ magic, after all.


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## ALB2012 (Mar 25, 2013)

Hehe yes. There might be some toasting going on from the mage side.
For the tower I am going with a ballista, the tower doesn't need to fall just be on fire. All the nice dry vines get burned.


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## wordwalker (Mar 25, 2013)

Part of the question is, how much of the tower is stone? For instance, it might be a stone shell with wooden spiralling stairs inside, built that way to get it up quickly rather than make it completely resiliant. Get enough flame inside there and the stairs go foosh.

Whenever we talk about burning fortresses, that's what we're considering: how much of it is solid stone and how much is wood or other materials built (or overgrown) around or within it.

Then again, if the place was really meant as a minor defense it might not be stone at all. Or might have been damaged and they only had the manpower to patch it with wood, or...


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## ALB2012 (Mar 26, 2013)

I had the outer skin as stone but it has been ruined for ages. There is wood inside but not much, pretty much it is held up with the vines and such outside. I don't think a skin of wood would still be standing. I hadn't considered it being repaired though, that is good point, it may well have been a smaller community there more recently.  Thanks


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## SeverinR (Apr 2, 2013)

Greek fire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
There is always Greek fire.  The stones won't burn, but the Greek fire would burn until it burns out. Any place it flows into would burn, the inhabitants could be forced out.
The nice thing, they throw water on it, it spreads the Greek fire, the fire is washed down deeper into the building.


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## ALB2012 (Apr 3, 2013)

I went with the outside being covered in dry vines and such and then it catches. Eventually the staircase goes (hence they can't get out and the old stones get hot and start to crack. One of the mages uses an ice/water spell and it turns to hot steam.


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