# Getting Published:  Step 1



## Philip Overby (Aug 16, 2012)

So, we all know you first need to write a book.  Edit it.  Revise it.  Maybe let a beta reader give it a once over.  But then what do you do?

Let's post some thoughts about what the first step should be after you've finished your bright, edited, shiny, hopeful novel.  I'd like to see if there is a consensus or if there are tons of varying views.


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## Penpilot (Aug 16, 2012)

Prepare a cover letter, synopsis, first three chapters, package for an agent.


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## Ireth (Aug 16, 2012)

Start looking up agents or publishing houses (if going the traditional route). Focus on your genre to narrow down the list. Some agents and publishers don't accept unsolicited submissions, so that'll narrow your search as well. Once you've got a bunch lined up, start at the top and work your way down.


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## Benjamin Clayborne (Aug 16, 2012)

I'm assuming you're talking about "What do you do next _if you want to get traditionally published_," because I can tell you what _I_ did after I finished my bright, shiny novel


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## Lorna (Aug 16, 2012)

Once I've got my WIP up to the highest standard I can alone I'm going to send it off for a professional critique from this site, recommended by my local writing hub. 

Helpful, affordable manuscript reviewing service.

It costs Â£199 for two reviewers to critique an 80,000 word novel. 

I'll probably end up doing another rewrite, and possibly getting it professionally critiqued again,  depending on how terrible the reviewers think my original draft was, then I'm going to start looking for an agent. 

The reason I've made these decisions is that I'm a first time novelist with little critical experience or knowledge of the genre and publishing companies and I do not possess a business head at all. I'd rather spend a bit of money on perfecting my product and pay an agent to help me find a publisher than mess up because of my lack of experience.


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## Caged Maiden (Aug 16, 2012)

I'd recommend writing a few really awesome Query letters.  It was a huge confidence boost to me when I sent a query and they asked for 35k words.


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## The Dark One (Aug 16, 2012)

Ya know...these sorts of questions come up all the time - strategies to get noticed or a foot in the door etc.

Forget it. Put ALL your focus into writing an unbelievably brilliant book.

After 20 years of writing, the one big thing I've learned about publishing is this...if you have the right product, it's easy to get published. If you don't it's impossible.


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## Philip Overby (Aug 16, 2012)

I think what I was suggesting in the OP is not so much about marketing or any of that.  More along the lines of "OK, I finished my book.  What do I do next?"  

Some may go the self-publishing route, but for those that want to submit somewhere, what should they do next?  I think what some have suggested as far as making cover letters, queries, etc. seems to be solid advice.  

This question has an ulterior motive in a way, as I'm hoping to finish my novel by October and I wanted to know what I should do after finishing the book.  As far as submitting, finding an agent, or whatever.


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## TWErvin2 (Aug 16, 2012)

Once you have your novel finished--polished and in the best shape it can be...

If you already haven't dones so, research appropriate agents/markets to send your novel off too. Find out their requirements, and work on that query letter, cover letter and brief synopsis.

Send the query letters off, or submission package off.

Then, while you're waiting for a response, begin working on your next novel!


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## Telcontar (Aug 16, 2012)

Whether you intend to pursue traditional publishing or self-publishing, your next step should be to work on your story summary and blurbs.

Encapsulating your brilliant 80k word novel into a three-hundred word summary is _hard._ You need to practice. You need to write several versions. You need to let other people read them and tell you what they think, just like you did with the book itself. 

If you want to trade-publish, you can then adapt the finished summary into your query letter (make sure to read the agent submission guidelines for exactly how!). If you decide to self-publish, that summary and blurb will be the second thing (after a cover) that people see of your book, and one of the main tools you use to hook them. Get it right.


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## Benjamin Clayborne (Aug 16, 2012)

You actually don't need to finish and polish the novel before you start submitting queries. Usually those who you'd send queries to (agents, editors) are interested in looking at the first couple of chapters before they want to see more, and as far as I know it's not a problem if it'll be months before the rest is ready to send to them. If they liked the first couple of chapters, they'll keep it on file in anticipation of whatever else you'll send later.

@Lorna: Have you had any friends/family critique your writing yet? You might be able to get some good advice (for less than Â£200) that can help you out. My main concern with paying for critiques is this: How do you know that the critique is going to be accurate or helpful? Is there any way to judge the critics' track record?


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## Ireth (Aug 16, 2012)

Benjamin Clayborne said:


> You actually don't need to finish and polish the novel before you start submitting queries. Usually those who you'd send queries to (agents, editors) are interested in looking at the first couple of chapters before they want to see more, and as far as I know it's not a problem if it'll be months before the rest is ready to send to them. If they liked the first couple of chapters, they'll keep it on file in anticipation of whatever else you'll send later.



I've never yet seen an agent or publisher who *didn't* specifically state that they were looking for complete, polished manuscripts. It seems a bit premature in my mind to send out pieces of an unfinished work, especially if your query package includes a synopsis of what the whole story will be like. Sometimes you can't predict how a novel will change and grow in the telling, and then your synopsis might turn out to be useless since it doesn't reflect the story accurately anymore.


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## T.Allen.Smith (Aug 16, 2012)

Benjamin Clayborne said:
			
		

> You actually don't need to finish and polish the novel before you start submitting queries. Usually those who you'd send queries to (agents, editors) are interested in looking at the first couple of chapters before they want to see more, and as far as I know it's not a problem if it'll be months before the rest is ready to send to them. If they liked the first couple of chapters, they'll keep it on file in anticipation of whatever else you'll send later.



Some submission packages ask for the beginning chapter, 30 pages that you consider a defining moment, and the ending.... There's all sorts of submission requests. Because of this, having a completed manuscript is preferred.


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## TWErvin2 (Aug 16, 2012)

Benjamin Clayborne said:


> You actually don't need to finish and polish the novel before you start submitting queries. Usually those who you'd send queries to (agents, editors) are interested in looking at the first couple of chapters before they want to see more, and as far as I know it's not a problem if it'll be months before the rest is ready to send to them. If they liked the first couple of chapters, they'll keep it on file in anticipation of whatever else you'll send later.



I'm one who also disagrees with this suggestion.

You're going to send the first three chapters and a synopsis of a novel that isn't finished? How close to finished would you suggest?  I guess if you had the novel well outlined and you were experienced in novel writing and don't stray from the outline, it'd be possible.

How does an author know they'll have time to complete and polish the novel before a request for the full mansucript is made? An author generally only gets one shot for each project with an agent/publisher. Who would want to reply to the request along the lines of: "I am 3/4 finished with the novel mansucript you're requesting and have yet to send it out to beta readers and get it polished, but the minute it's complete I'll send it to you." Or, just say nothing and 3 or 4 or more months after the request, get around to sending the completed novel. What message would that send to the agent/editor?

Changes in a novel's middle, for example, can have ripple effects throughout the plot, including the first three chapters (or 50 pages). It can alter the end of the novel, and thus, the accuracy of the original sysnopsis.

Can one accurately gauge how long it will take for an agent/publisher to request a full mansucript?  Can one accurately estimate how long it will take to complete and polish a mansucript? What if something interrupts and delays completion of said manuscript?

Beyond that, some publishers request the full manuscript right off the bat, including a synopsis and cover letter.

I think it's bad advice to suggest it is a good or reasonable idea to send queries and submission packages to agents/editors, who are expecting a novel to ready should they be interested.

Part of the problem is that writers early in their career are an unknown commodity. Completing a novel--a really good/compelling novel--is not something that every writer that has set out to do, actually manages.

I guess in the query or submission package, it could be noted that the novel isn't finished. But I bet that would torpedo consideration based on the paragraph above.

I do know several authors who have novels under their belt who can and have pitched proposals, a sysnopsis with the initial chapters through their agent to editors and get contracts. But they have a successful track record of completing solid novels--ones that have sold well and turned a profit for the publishers. An untested, first time author won't get that consideration, unless they can some how demonstrate a solid readership ahead of time.

It's been suggested that this thread is for published authors, but self-published authors have some similiarities in what comes next. Wouldn't it be an equally bad idea to self-publish a novel before it's ready for the reading public to see? Although not exactly comparing apples to apples, I'll still ask, Why would an editor/agent be any different than the reading public?

If getting traditionally published is important, I think it's best to finish the novel. Sure, it may delay the submitting process by several months (or maybe a bit more), but in the big scheme of a writing career, that isn't much. And, while that first novel's queries are out there, working to find it a home, the author can be productive working on completing another novel.


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## Lorna (Aug 16, 2012)

@ Benjamin



> Have you had any friends/family critique your writing yet? You might be able to get some good advice (for less than Â£200) that can help you out. My main concern with paying for critiques is this: How do you know that the critique is going to be accurate or helpful? Is there any way to judge the critics' track record?



Yes, I'm a member of a local writer's group where we share readings and give feedback but that's not the same as textual critique. My mum's helped me out alot and a couple of friends have read some of it, giving honest opinions and highlighting confusion. 

However, it's one thing to ask people to listen in to a chapter, or read and critique a couple of chapters and another to critique a whole manuscript. 

It takes me an hour to read 30 pages. If my manuscript is 250 pages long that's 8 1 /2 hours. To read in depth enough to give a critique could take 2 - 3 times as long. Say 22 hours? Then there's the time spent writing up the critique- 3 pages and another page of marks on character, plot etc. Another 3 hours work? That's 25 hours. If the price for two critiques is Â£199 that means each critic receives Â£100 for 25 hours work. That's Â£4 an hour. Way under minimum wage. 

Could be good value? Or perhaps the critique wouldn't be the standard I want? I don't know. But at present this seems like the  best option.


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## Benjamin Clayborne (Aug 16, 2012)

I didn't mean to imply that it's a good idea to half-finish your book and start shopping it around; most of what I've read implies that traditional publication is such a long process that getting someone interested can happen well before the finalized stage. But maybe that's changed with the continuing evolution of the publishing industry; I guess publishers/agents are no longer interested in the hard work of helping an author develop a promising piece of writing.


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## TWErvin2 (Aug 16, 2012)

Benjamin Clayborne said:


> I didn't mean to imply that it's a good idea to half-finish your book and start shopping it around; most of what I've read implies that traditional publication is such a long process that getting someone interested can happen well before the finalized stage. But maybe that's changed with the continuing evolution of the publishing industry; I guess publishers/agents are no longer interested in the hard work of helping an author develop a promising piece of writing.



Benjamin Clayborne, you said: 





> You actually don't need to finish and polish the novel before you start submitting queries.



I am unclear what you mean by: 





Benjamin Clayborne said:


> I didn't mean to imply that it's a good idea to half-finish your book and start shopping it around; most of what I've read implies that traditional publication is such a long process that getting someone interested can happen well before the finalized stage.



Shouldn't an author send the absolute best they can produce? What do you mean by "getting someone interested well before the finalized stage"? Before the novel is finished?



Benjamin Clayborne said:


> I guess publishers/agents are no longer interested in the hard work of helping an author develop a promising piece of writing.



What would lead you to believe this? Authors I know that have agents representing their work, the agents often provide input to improve it before it's presented to editors. And then editors, after acceptance, do edit and ask for/discuss revisions from the author with the objective of improving the work. Certainly the author would learn through participation in the process? I know I have.

Do editors have less time than, say, in the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s to work with and nurture authors? Probably, as editorial staffs have been cut in the last ten years, but the work of preparing novels for publication remains the same.


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## Caged Maiden (Aug 16, 2012)

Yeah, I've done some critiques that took me hours to do, and all to help out someone who needed a little direction and encouragement.  All I can say, is that others have done it for me, and it's my way of giving back to this awesome community.  If I wanted a service, I'd pay whatever it cost, think about it, you probably pay more for your cell phone than having your work read by a critic, and the cell phone has no income potential.


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## Chilari (Aug 17, 2012)

I dunno, Caged Maiden, I've got a pretty good deal on my phone.

I do wonder about "professional" critiquers charging as little as Â£200 though - as Lorna pointed out, Â£4/hr is not much at all. I can't help but think that people like us, people who both read a lot and write a lot, and occasionally review short sections shared in the showcase, are fairly well qualified to critique. Hell, I nearly started a business in proofreading and critiquing before I got my current job. Surely working together, trading critiques and supporting one another as a community wouldn't be a bad idea for the critiquing side of things.


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## Caged Maiden (Aug 17, 2012)

I met all my critique partners here.  I think it's been the single most encouraging and humbling experience, and I wouldn't trade it for anything.  I made friends, helped some people out, and best of all, I learned both from doing and receiving critiques.


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## The Dark One (Aug 17, 2012)

Benjamin Clayborne said:


> I didn't mean to imply that it's a good idea to half-finish your book and start shopping it around; most of what I've read implies that traditional publication is such a long process that getting someone interested can happen well before the finalized stage. But maybe that's changed with the continuing evolution of the publishing industry; I guess publishers/agents are no longer interested in the hard work of helping an author develop a promising piece of writing.


As I said above...if you have the right product it's easy to get published, and it doesn't absolutely have to be finished. If you have a great idea and have enough of a showcase of your writing (first few chapters minimum) to demonstrate that you can carry it off, you might be surprised. The first book I had accepted by a commercial publisher, I'd only written about two thirds when I contacted a publisher and he accepted it within four days of first contact. The first publisher to whom I sent it. 

I know how unusual that story is - but it rather proves my point. Prior to that I had been trying to get published for 15 years, sending stuff out with all sorts of different synopses and cover letters etc. None of it mattered because I'd never had quite the right product before. Get the product right and all the rest takes care of itself.


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## Telcontar (Aug 17, 2012)

@Dark One: Just to be sure we're all on the right page - your published work is fiction, correct? The "rules" for nonfiction are substantially different...

"Get the product right" may sound good on the face of it, but methinks it is a dramatic oversimplification. Which product? The book? Even the best book won't get published unless it is presented properly, and to the right people, to get it read. Is the product, then, both the book _and _the sales pitch (query letter)? This is more accurate to my thinking.

Not finishing a book that you are querying isn't a poison pill, but it could be risky. If you start querying a book you haven't finished, DO NOT mention that in the query letter. Also, be sure that you  won't be making any significant changes to what you already have written. The process can take awhile, so if you are certain you can stay one jump ahead of the requests then great. What if lightning strikes, though, and the agent responds faster than you anticipated with a request for a full manuscript - which you do not have? You could lose what could have been an offer on the table.


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## Benjamin Clayborne (Aug 17, 2012)

The Dark One said:


> As I said above...if you have the right product it's easy to get published,



Sure, but having the right product is _incredibly difficult._ That's like saying, sure, if you have a ten-ton gold nugget, it's easy to exchange it for cash. The hard part is acquiring the gold in the first place.


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## T.Allen.Smith (Aug 17, 2012)

The Dark One said:
			
		

> As I said above...if you have the right product it's easy to get published...



I believe he's speaking of a product that's right for the current market & a good piece of writing at the same time....


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## The Dark One (Aug 17, 2012)

Yeah, sorry if I sound a bit glib. It's something that occurred to me shortly after my first book was published. Someone asked: was it hard to get published? And I thought: no...it was easy. The first publisher I sent it to snapped it up within days of me sending an exploratory email.

Of course, everything that went before that was hard. 15 years of writing - seriously trying to improve my art - several novels written or half written. At least a hundred rejections after god-knows-how-many different versions of synopses and cover letter, all agonised over as though they were more important than the novel itself. And I went really close a couple of times - even got as far as the publishing committee meeting with one book - only to have it outvoted.

But the following things worked for me. I slowly found my natural writer's voice and improved out of sight at generating original engaging prose. I learned how to pace a multi-thread story and keep the reader guessing and turning pages. I had developed a small network of industry professionals who took me seriously and (despite rejecting me) wanted to see my next project. All I needed was the right project.

When the idea struck me, I knew immediately how strong it was and the first draft just seemed to write itself. When I was about two thirds of the way through, I decided on a whim to send it to the fellow who had championed my cause but been outvoted. He had started his own publishing company, but alas, non-fiction only. Nevertheless, he read it, and said: this might appeal to X from Y Publishing. Why don't you send it to him?

So I googled the company (I'd never heard of them) and sent off an email describing the book...and was absolutely gobsmacked when the phone rang 20 minutes later. It was X from Y Publishing, really interested in my project. That was a Monday morning and by Friday afternoon he had read the incomplete draft and told me he wanted to publish it.

It took another 6 months to finish the draft and a further 18 months to edit into a shape we all agreed on. But the point is...if you have the right idea and enough of it expressed in good enough shape to demonstrate you can write, then there are no hard and fast rules about when and how to send it out.

An agent or publisher may be disappointed to learn you haven't finished the draft but if it's good enough to arouse their interest in this unbelievably overcrowded and competitive market then they'll still want to see the final product. And I guarantee, if you have a professional keenly anticipating the finished product, it will really inspire you to get cracking.


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## Benjamin Clayborne (Aug 17, 2012)

The Dark One said:


> Yeah, sorry if I sound a bit glib. It's something that occurred to me shortly after my first book was published. Someone asked: was it hard to get published? And I thought: no...it was easy. The first publisher I sent it to snapped it up within days of me sending an exploratory email.
> 
> Of course, everything that went before that was hard. 15 years of writing - seriously trying to improve my art - several novels written or half written. At least a hundred rejections after god-knows-how-many different versions of synopses and cover letter, all agonised over as though they were more important than the novel itself. And I went really close a couple of times - even got as far as the publishing committee meeting with one book - only to have it outvoted.



Sorry, I'm confused; in your first paragraph you said that the first publisher you sent it to bought it, but in your second paragraph you said you spend 15 years getting rejected. Do you mean that the novel you DID sell, sold to the first publisher you sent it to; but this was after 15 years of getting rejections for other novels?

Even if that is what happened, I wouldn't call that easy. You spent 15 years developing your craft to the point where you were able to write a novel good enough to sell. I'm not sure what's "easy" about that.


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## The Dark One (Aug 18, 2012)

That's why I apologised for being a bit glib.

But after all that work I did finally have the right product and the first fiction publisher to see bought it. It's the right product that matters - whether it took 15 weeks or 15 years.


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## Delem (Aug 20, 2012)

After I finished the work on the first circle of my saga I decided to send out synopsis to many agents, but what I got in return are polite auto replies with apologies, recommendations to keep on and polite refuses. First it made a bit sad, now that kind of sadness changed into some different kind of emotion. After all, if you want the cart to ride  - just make a push. So I decided to tell the world about my work on my own. Because I believe and here goes my recommendation: in the world of numerous agents, publishing houses and agencies one must have one - belief.

Cheers!


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