# The Elven map of everything



## WooHooMan (Jan 2, 2014)

I notice that when people try to draw maps of their made-up settings, they try to make it look like this...








They try to draw every individual mountain and coastline and river and they try to make it as accurate as possible.  I feel like some people think that making an accurate, realistic map makes their fantasy world seem more "authentic" or something.  Maybe because the greats like Tolkien and Howard did it, people think that that's what all fantasy writers should do.  But I don't find that very interesting.  Or necessary in most of my stories.  I wanted to try to make a more "artsy" map, a map that tells you something about the culture that produced it.  Something like this...







So, I worked it out, tried a few things and I think I came-up with something kind of interesting and I figured I'd show it here and maybe get some feedback or suggestions.

The story this map appears in is about elves.  So it's an elven map of basically everything.  Check it out...







I think it's pretty simple but I'll try to explain how it works.  First off, it's not really a map of "everything".  It's a map of cosmology, the world, ethics and theology.  Now, I'll go into detail.

*Cosmology*

The top circle is the sun.  The circle beneath that is the moon.  Pretty simple.  The third circle is the world.  The outer ring is the ocean and the inner ring is the land.  The fourth circle is a catch-all symbol for other planets/moons/etc and the fifth circle is a catch-all for the stars. 
This map shows that the elves are aware that stars are bigger and further away than planets but they don't care enough about astronomy to map out all the planets and stars.

*The World*

There are five landmasses in the world.  The top circle is the Land of the Ogres.  The second circle is the Land of the Elves, the smallest landmass.  The third circle is the largest landmass, the Land of Humans which contains a large sea (the inner circle).  The fourth circle is the Land of the Fairies and the fifth circle is the Land of the Dragons.
Elves very rarely, if ever, leave their island so they don't see any need to show the actual shape of the landmasses or an accurate representation of how far away they are from each other.

*Ethics*

This one's a little complicated but basically elves believe there are five virtues.  Wisdom is the big circle at the top because it's the most important virtue.  Faith is a little circle near the top because elves see faith as "good but not necessary".  Honor is the outer ring of the third circle and justice is the inner ring (they believe that justice comes from honor).  Compassion is the fourth circle.  And the least necessary virtue: patience is at the bottom.
The symbol also represents five corresponding sins: ignorance (the most "fixable" sin), hatred, greed and envy (which comes from greed), despair and rage (the worst sin according to elves).
So, that should give you an idea of what elves believe.  Speaking of which...

*Theology*

The top circle is Eru, the god of the universe.
The small second circle is the spirit called Rainbow.  He is seen as a weather deity and destruction spirit (among other things) and he travels along the sky.  The middle circle is the universe with the inner ring being the physical plane and the outer ring being the astral/spiritual plane.  The fourth circle is the creation spirit Vara who is considered the "foundation" of the universe and life. 
The bottom circle is also Eru.  Eru is the top and bottom, the beginning and end, life and death and so on and so forth.

So, there's my crazy "elf map" thing.  What do you think?


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## Jabrosky (Jan 2, 2014)

If the human continent lies in the middle, does that mean it lies on the planet's Equator?

Anyway, that's a very creative approach to mapmaking you have there.


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## Guru Coyote (Jan 2, 2014)

I like the idea, lots.

A few things though: the circles all have their role in each category of 'belief,' but the correlation between those categories is a bit problematic:
e.g. The landmass of the Ogres  = the sun = wisdo = god of univers.
Hmmm.... See what I mean?


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## Queshire (Jan 2, 2014)

what, ogres can't be wise? That's speciest. =P

I love this idea, it's a simple symbol but contains so many different meanings. I can just imagine it confusing the hell out of the the puny literal minded humans.


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## WooHooMan (Jan 2, 2014)

Jabrosky said:


> If the human continent lies in the middle, does that mean it lies on the planet's Equator?



Interesting question.  The answer is "I don't know".  I'd be surprised if the elves know what an equator is.

I think you're making the mistake of thinking this is a map of the world.  It's not.  It's a map of the world according to the elves.  I'd guess the Land of the Dragons is around the planet's equator while the Land of the Ogres is just south of the arctic circle.  But that could be wrong.  It's just as likely that the world is flat.



Guru Coyote said:


> A few things though: the circles all have their role in each category of 'belief,' but the correlation between those categories is a bit problematic:
> e.g. The landmass of the Ogres  = the sun = wisdo = god of univers.
> Hmmm.... See what I mean?



That's a good point and I did think about this.  
The map is either a map of virtues OR a map of the cosmology.  Not a map of virtues AND a map of the cosmology.

Also, it's an Elf map of Elven virtues.  I'm sure Ogres have a different set of virtues and a different religion and whatever.
I know it's confusing and obtuse but I guess that's just elf logic.



Queshire said:


> I can just imagine it confusing the hell out of the the puny literal minded humans.



See?  Queshire gets it.


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## The Construct (Jan 2, 2014)

I really like this idea, cool symbolism and the way the same image represents 4 different aspects of Elf life and belief. Very well done. 

Just one thing, though little to do with the actual "map" itself, is that Eru is the name of the creator god in LOTR mythology, so you may want to change that.


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## WooHooMan (Jan 2, 2014)

The Construct said:


> Just one thing, though little to do with the actual "map" itself, is that Eru is the name of the creator god in LOTR mythology, so you may want to change that.



Actually, the LotR god is named "Eru IlÃºvatar".  Easy mistake.  I believe that "eru" is a Norse word meaning "to be".
But yeah, either way, that's intentional on my part.  It's like an homage.


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## The Construct (Jan 2, 2014)

I believe the names "Eru IlÃºvatar", just "IlÃºvatar" and just "Eru" can be used interchangeably. But if it's a homage I guess that's okay, as long as you're aware that some people may still call you up on it.


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## Ireth (Jan 2, 2014)

I like this idea; the map reminds me of the maps I've seen of the Nine Realms in Norse myth. Stemming from that, you could give your god the name Ek, which is Norse for "I" (kinda similar to the Judeo-Christian God calling Himself "I Am"). "Er", I believe, is the word for "who".


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## WooHooMan (Jan 2, 2014)

I appreciate the suggestion but I'm just going to call this god Oire.  Whatever, it really doesn't matter.


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## Mythopoet (Jan 2, 2014)

WooHooMan said:


> Actually, the LotR god is named "Eru IlÃºvatar".  Easy mistake.  I believe that "eru" is a Norse word meaning "to be".
> But yeah, either way, that's intentional on my part.  It's like an homage.



"Eru" and "Iluvatar" are two separate names for the same entity. "Eru" meaning "The One" or "The One Alone" and "Iluvatar" meaning "The All Father". Both are from the Quenya language which is partially based on Finnish. Either one by its self, or both together, is a proper name for the Creator God of Middle-earth. 

I can see how you would intend it to be an homage, but it's far more likely to be viewed as either a lack of originality or just plagiarism. Tolkien's work is too well known and too highly respected to just take one of his words and call it your own, even in homage. I would recommend not doing that. 

Other than that, I really love this approach. It's very creative, very different, and yet very real.

EDIT: Oops, I see you posted while I was composing this. Good idea.


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## Pythagoras (Jan 3, 2014)

I have done something similar to this. Well, similar in premise, because my "map" looks nothing like yours, except that it's circular in nature. Actually, thinking again, it's not even similar in premise. It's similar only in that it is an atypical way of doing maps, and it is rather abstract to look at. 

On the other hand, I'm guilty of drawing the Tolkien-esque maps as well. 

Interesting work anyhow, keep it up!


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## Valentinator (Jan 3, 2014)

I have a question. Do elves have some universal navigation sense that makes ordinary maps unnecessary? I mean a map is a tool used for traveling. I'm not sure that you can use this map for that. Anyway it's an interesting concept.


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## Guru Coyote (Jan 3, 2014)

"The same symbol mean 4 different things." Ok, I can live with that.
I gues the only thing that counts with this "Elven Logic" is that it is internally consistent. It need not make sense to Me, as long as it makes sense to the Elves... and you, as creator/author. The latter is rather important, actually. If you don't get Elven Logic... that will show. As you made this up, I guess you do get it


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## WooHooMan (Jan 3, 2014)

Pythagoras said:


> I have done something similar to this. Well, similar in premise, because my "map" looks nothing like yours, except that it's circular in nature. Actually, thinking again, it's not even similar in premise. It's similar only in that it is an atypical way of doing maps, and it is rather abstract to look at.



I would love to see what you've come-up with.  I don't suppose you could post it?



Valentinator said:


> I have a question. Do elves have some universal navigation sense that makes ordinary maps unnecessary? I mean a map is a tool used for traveling. I'm not sure that you can use this map for that. Anyway it's an interesting concept.



It's kind of complicated but I guess the quick answer is that Elves just don't travel so they see no use for a map.  When they do travel, they work better off of a list of directions than reading a map.  It's just the way elves' minds are wired.



Guru Coyote said:


> If you don't get Elven Logic... that will show. As you made this up, I guess you do get it



Boy, I hope so.  Honestly, I still find it a pretty confusing.


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## Malik (Jan 3, 2014)

I toyed with a map for awhile that showed the distances in time required to travel rather than actual miles. This would have been too complicated to explain in the book, so I went back to a  standard-style map. 

I decided that the maps they use in my fantasy world would mostly be representations of things, with highly-detailed landmarks so people would know what everything was more or less near. It's not like they have detailed surveying teams. Big swaths of wilderness are actually left blank. "That's probably just more trees." But that would have been a nightmare to draw so I just mention it.

If I did a stylized map -- which is a cool idea, I'll give you that -- I'd also have an actual map in the book, drawn to scale, just so the readers would know where the hell everyone was going.


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## Quillstine (Jan 6, 2014)

I love this, I think having as much information about your world as you can really help with writing the story. Visual items like this even more so.

I don’t know if I would call this a map mind you, a map via definition displays physical land points and is usually used as a form of navigation, what you have made I would consider more in along the symbology line.


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## ScipioSmith (Jan 14, 2014)

The trouble is, as much as it tells you a lot of about elves, it seems of limited help if you're trying to work out where the characters are/have been at any point in time, which is the main point of the map in the front.


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## MVV (Jan 14, 2014)

I think that the main question is what's the purpose of the map. If you want to make a map as a tool for the reader to see where the stuff is happening, it's better to go the Tolkien-esque way. (I'd stress that these realistic maps are quite unrealistic when the story takes place in a culture influenced by European Middle Ages.) If the map is there to illustrate the culture, then I'd say it's better to go for a map that would seem unrealistic to us.

Anyway, I love your idea.


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## Caged Maiden (Jan 14, 2014)

I have studied Medieval scrolls and maps and I always love to read every word on them, marveling at how unrealistic they could be.  I mean... unicorns on the northern coasts of Africa, Jerusalem as the center of the world... it's all rather foreign to us... but when those maps were made, they were probably quite literal ( I guess an antelope looks like a unicorn to  Northern Europeans, seeing them for the first time).

I've actually made those kinds of recreated old maps, so I wonder whether there's a use for one in a book, because seriously, i like the idea of doing something different.  Problem is, the map (as other people have said) is not for the characters, or maybe even the author, it's for the readers.  So... in that regard, I have made a map that I use, for writing purposes, and it is watercolored and looks realistically like a stylized map of areas... but wen it comes to putting on in the book, I'll make a much smaller, ink version that details the lands important to the particular novel, leaving out the rest of the world.

The thing is... I'm thinking a reader would (like me) feel an actual map that doesn't tell them pertinent information about where the landmarks from the novel are in relation to each other, might feel a touch useless.  I remember reading a book with a map that was like a big scale map... then it had a small section enlarged.  The problem was, on the big one, there was little detail, and on the small one, there were vague shapes and labels all over.  It was really distracting because it didn't seem to serve a purpose.  

Of course, that's just me musing about maps.  I like the symbolism of your map and I think it feels reminiscent of the Norse worlds maps I've seen.


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## WooHooMan (Jan 14, 2014)

Caged Maiden said:


> The thing is... I'm thinking a reader would (like me) feel an actual map that doesn't tell them pertinent information about where the landmarks from the novel are in relation to each other, might feel a touch useless.



I think you're assuming that the characters actually travel in my story.  They don't.  The reader doesn't need to know where any landmarks are because there are no landmarks in the story.


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## Caged Maiden (Jan 15, 2014)

Actually, the only part of my post that had anything to do specifically with your map was this:


> Of course, that's just me musing about maps.  I like the symbolism of  your map and I think it feels reminiscent of the Norse worlds maps I've  seen.



If you read the previous parts of my post, I was actually talking about maps in general and it was in no way reflecting my view of your specific map.  More of a general comment  on  how maps can be used and whether I would ever include a stylized map (like the one of Jerusalem) in a novel.  But that's okay, you can read it any way you choose.  I don't think anything I said could possibly point to my insinuating that your map was useless, just that some authors include a map that's of little use to those readers who wish to see the area traveled.  A stylized map showing unicorns in North Africa might be in interesting addition as a curiosity, but be of little use to a reader wanting to gain an understanding of actual distances.


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## WooHooMan (Jan 15, 2014)

Caged Maiden said:


> Actually, the only part of my post that had anything to do specifically with your map.



 I assumed that you wouldn't have posted a comment unless were saying something about what the thread was about.  I thought were you saying all that stuff as a critique of my map thing.  that would explain my confusion.


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## Caged Maiden (Jan 15, 2014)

yeah, but after reading the other postings in this thread, I was joining the conversation about maps in general.  I did, however give my small opinion on your specific map, being that I enjoyed how it reflected how the Norse viewed the world, like Ireth said.  Obviously, such a map as this:







doesn't help us know where anything is... but is speaks to how the general worlds system is set up and it also (like your map) gives us clues as to the importance of those realms.  We don't really believe the tree is that big in the real world, but we can see how important it is to the people who believe in it.  I'd be proud to put a map like this in my book if it wasn't intended to serve as a measure of distances.   The thing about maps  though, is that for most authors, they serve to show a reader exactly where characters have gone, how close the bad guy is, where the kingdom lies in relation to the sea, whatever.  So, I think it's perfectly reasonable to include a stylized map if it's for the purpose of greater insight into the religion/ society.  But, for me... including a stylized map might not have that great a symbolism because my characters generally don't have that sort of connection.  In fact, in most of my books, a map is unnecessary and the only reason I have one painted up at all, is because I need to keep consistency between books, which happen to not include a lot of travel, but take place all over my main continent of the world I created.  I found places changed from the first book to the last and I needed to put it all down on paper for those stories that included a sea voyage or land trek.  It's less for the reader's use than my own, because I figured I was dealing with an area about the size of Western Europe, but I needed my sea voyage to take a certain amount of time.  Then I had to research how fast certain ships traveled... and then how long it took to get to say, Southern France, to Ireland on a ship, and whether my time frame and the distance with which I was working were similar.  When I found out they were not, I had to rethink one or the other.  I went with the time because I'd already written too much to establish another scale for the continent.  

However, I really enjoy the Medieval maps I've studied and have several history books with bookmarks on those maps, should I ever include a stylized map in my own writing.  The thing is, I make scrolls as awards.  They're hand-painted and given to people for services performed, and I always thought map ones could be really beautiful... an added element instead of just a scroll with a pretty border or whatever.  It's hard to imagine what use this map served:






 but it's a beautiful scroll and I'd think it would be an authentic feel to a book (or in my case, scroll) whether it's of any real use or not.


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## Pythagoras (Jan 15, 2014)

WooHooMan said:


> I would love to see what you've come-up with.  I don't suppose you could post it?



Well, I do my drawings in a notebook and lack the technology to put it online. However, I just responded to a thread about nations, and my response contains a description of one such map:



> I focus on realms located within separate planes of existence rather than nations. Although they are not connected in the physical world, I have them mapped as concentric circles to illustrate how they are connected. In the center is the Realm of the First Tree, the Tree of Life. Around the Tree is the Realm of the Dead. Around the Dead are the Realms of the Living: the Faerie Realm on the inside, in which resides everything thought by humans to be imaginary, and outside is the Mortal Realm, in which reside the humans. Surrounding the Living is the Great Ocean, and around that, on the edges of the World, live the dragons in their exile. The Realm of the Gods is located on a hidden mountain that straddles the border of Mortal and Faerie. The plots center around wizards called Dimension Traversers, who can travel from one realm to another as if they were not on separate planes of existence. The Dimension Traversers, having named themselves "the Council", possess an ever-expanding understanding of the Universe as a result of their travels, and are viewed as deities in the Realms of the Living. They reside on the hidden mountain, which is why it is called the Realm of the Gods.


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