# Do publishing houses actually edit any more?



## Chilari (Jun 10, 2011)

I've noticed, in some of the books I have read recently, some significant errors. Typos, spelling errors, entire words missing, sentences not making sense, lose threads not tied off and clues planted early in the novel which seem to be entirely forgotten by the end. It seems to be happening more and more in what I read, particularly the smaller errors like typos and spelling errors, even in novels by big name authors like Terry Pratchett.

I know there are a few published authors floating around on the forum here, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few forumites involved in some way in the publishing industry, so I was wondering if any of you knew what the situation was here: if you've been published, how does the finished product on the shelf differ from the manuscript you submitted to the publisher? And those in the publishing industry: do publishers bypass proof-readers? Or simply go for the cheaper proof-readers with less experience? Am I overreacting?

I admit that part of the reason I ask is because I am considering a career as a freelance proof-reader (if I can't get one of the jobs I really want), but if the profession is a dwindling one then I'm going to need to think of something else.


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## Map the Dragon (Jun 10, 2011)

Since getting my first novel deal, I've been cursed. I was so terrified of the possible errors that might not get found in my novel, that I was searching for them in other works. When you read for pleasure and just float through a book with ease, you might not notice them. I didn't before. But now...ewww. They're everywhere: Harry Potter, Dragonlance, Wheel of Time...you name it. And we aren't just talking a few, but many (usually in the neighborhood of a couple dozen). I absolutely love Sanderson, and his newest novel was the last fantasy work I read. Granted it is longer than most books, but I lost count at over 70 errors. They were few and far between, but when I got to page 700 it looked like his editor just gave up. 

My experience was better. I was an English teacher for the last decade, and thought I could catch it all; yeah, right! I went through the initial accepted/approved manuscript and edited the hell out of it myself. I caught a zillion errors and went from 140,000 words to 131000. Then, my publisher took over. I'm with a small firm, so I got a lot of attention. They were doing three novels at the same time over several months, but I was edited by the actual publishing house owner as well as her go-to cheif editor. Then, I got my proof...hardcover copy overnighted to my house. I almost cried; it was wonderful. Then...I found two errors! I was crushed for a few seconds before I realized it was just a proof. They were able to get those changed before sending the orders (about 200 preorders from friends, family, and other) off to print. 

Recap....I too have noticed lackluster editing. My experience was anything but. I think the evidence might point to large vs small publishing housing.


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## TWErvin2 (Jun 10, 2011)

I believe part of the reason you are seeing more errors creep into novels put out by major publishers is because they have slashed editorial staffs in an effort to remain profitable.  So, you have the same workload, and fewer workers (depending on the publisher and imprint between 25% and 40% if I recall from articles I've read over the past few years).

Editors do much more than edit and copyedit, and less time is available to focus on each responsiblity. In truth, editors, especially those in the lower ranks (associate editors for example) do not earn very much money and almost always are working at home, and focus on doing what needs to be done at the office, at the office. An editor at Tor I spoke with a while back reads manuscripts during his subway ride from New Jersey to NY each morning and home each evening and does a lot of editing at home.

I worked with my managing editor (Gryphonwood Press is a small press). My debut novel has a few errors-4 I think although there might be more. Those are ones readers pointed out ot me. Nothing major, just typo type things. It grates at me some, but nobody is perfect, including me and my editor.


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## GameMasterNick (Jun 11, 2011)

Do publishers bypass proof-readers? 
Only the worst of the lot.  Check the imprints on the books you're seeing the errors on.  Are they big name (Del Rey, Tor, Baen, etc?), small press or self-published works?  I haven't heard of anyone slashing editorial staff and removing copy-editing (as opposed to style editing for loopholes and whatnot).  That'd be slashing your own throat in the publishing industry, and basically reducing the level of quality expected of publishing houses to that expected of self-publishers.

Or simply go for the cheaper proof-readers with less experience?
This is possible, but I haven't heard of -anyone- outsourcing copy-editing.  That includes the Big 6 and a ton of fantasy publishers whose staffs I work with on a weekly basis.  Copy-editing is one of the lowest rungs of editing, and the final version should still go through galleys (where the author and their coterie verify the final product)... so, low pay is possible, but proofing budgets are still pretty big.

 Am I overreacting?
When all publishers start producing stuff the quality of the average SmashWords self-published "work" (there are some real winners, and some horrors; go looking through them sometime to make you feel really good about your own craft )... I'd be worried.  Until then, I'd expect it's a minor glitch in the system.

I know a few top-level editors at big name magazines and imprints that do most of their reading any time they can.  One of them has a paper manuscript slush pile in her bathroom (I've seen it!).  Being an editor (at least a good one) requires a love of reading.  But typos and formatting errors aren't normally the responsibility of top-level editors.  Even associates often pass those down the ladder (and some companies combine proofing, slush and copy-editing in one position!).

Now, the one that gets me is Scholastic.  They're notoriously bad for copy errors in their fiction... which is hilarious considering their main body of work continues to be educational materials.


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## Chilari (Jun 11, 2011)

> Or simply go for the cheaper proof-readers with less experience?
> This is possible, but I haven't heard of -anyone- outsourcing copy-editing.


Really? I'd heard that quite a lot of publishers hire freelance proof readers and copy editors because they don't have sufficient work in that area to hire dedicated staff for it. But I guess if they're hiring staff who do more than that, it makes sense. Perhaps I should apply for a job like that rather than try to go freelance right away.


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## GameMasterNick (Jun 11, 2011)

Actually, by outsourcing I meant hiring editors from areas with drastically lower costs of living who are thus able to do more on lower wages.  Freelance copy-editing is gaining steam amongst the major houses, but most do seem to be combining positions rather than entering into freelance contracts.  Small publishing houses regularly freelance their cover art, copy-editing and sometimes the entire editing or formatting work.  Professional freelancers, those who are both good at what they do and can make a legitimate living at it, should provide services of equal quality to staff editors.  I've been a freelance writer, editor and translator (French and Japanese) for years and refuse to be tied down to any single client.


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## SeverinR (Jun 13, 2011)

Map the Dragon said:


> Since getting my first novel deal, I've been cursed. I was so terrified of the possible errors that might not get found in my novel, that I was searching for them in other works. When you read for pleasure and just float through a book with ease, you might not notice them. I didn't before. But now...ewww. They're everywhere: Harry Potter, Dragonlance, Wheel of Time...you name it. And we aren't just talking a few, but many (usually in the neighborhood of a couple dozen). I absolutely love Sanderson, and his newest novel was the last fantasy work I read. Granted it is longer than most books, but I lost count at over 70 errors. They were few and far between, but when I got to page 700 it looked like his editor just gave up.
> 
> My experience was better. I was an English teacher for the last decade, and thought I could catch it all; yeah, right! I went through the initial accepted/approved manuscript and edited the hell out of it myself.
> Recap....I too have noticed lackluster editing. My experience was anything but. I think the evidence might point to large vs small publishing housing.



I can't believe the number of errors I find in the books I am reading. I realized that I am paying more attention to them now.
The last book I just finished had many simple errors, like he instead of the, I noticed at least once the word was the sound alike word rather then the intended word.  The biggest mistake was refering to the persons dragon by the name of the priest.

I have noticed I need to set my work aside or go considerably further into it before I edit, because if its still clear in my mind I read what I meant to say rather then what I did say. (Hey, I knew what I meant)


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## epublishabook (Aug 10, 2011)

*The question is what is a publishing house these days.*

In addition to real publishing houses, where editing should be properly done, there is a flurry of "publishing house":" that are nothing more than an imprint opened by an author to hide the fact that he/she is self-publishing.
In addition , some publishing platform call themselves publishing houses, though they provide no editing services whatsoever. Just a publisher name and formatting and distribution services.
So, of course, when taking into account all theses so called publishing houes, the number of mistakes in "published" books is growing fast.


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