# There be Pirates!



## BWFoster78 (Nov 4, 2015)

Being a prawny little self publisher, I never dreamed I would encounter my book on a pirate site.

Today, though, I did a Google search, and both AoP and RotM were available for download.  Sent me first "please remove my books from your site" email.


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## Steerpike (Nov 4, 2015)

Yep. Mine have popped up online pretty quick. You can get rid of some of the more prominent uses. Others will crop up and it's a matter of which ones are worth the effort.


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## Steerpike (Nov 4, 2015)

What'll end up happening at some point is the book will get wrapped up in some bundle of 1000 ebooks available via BitTorrent, and trying to go after those uses is a big waste of time. But if you find sites with DMCA take-down procedures, it's worth sending the notice.


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## Heliotrope (Nov 4, 2015)

I was so excited about Pirates! 

Now I'm sad for you. That sucks! But also kind of awesome? You have been pirated, there is something almost brag worthy about that  

But now I also want to google your stuff.... get a free copy...


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## j.k.m (Nov 5, 2015)

After reading your post, I checked google. . Sure enough, there was my book on some pirate style sites. I am not too bothered about it. I did however email one company that was offering hardback, audio and paperback books, as these do not exist yet, it was obviously a fraudulent attempt to get more money from people.


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## PaulineMRoss (Nov 5, 2015)

You should be cautious about interacting with these sites. Some of them don't have the book available at all, it's just a con to get hold of credit card details, or inject your computer with malware. And frankly, it's not worth the effort of chasing these people. Let folks have the books for free, if they want. I do giveaways anyway, what's the difference? And lots of pirates grow up to be law-abiding avid readers who will actually buy your stuff.

The ones to watch for are the copies put up on Amazon. Those are actually making money, so it's worth making a fuss about.


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## TWErvin2 (Nov 5, 2015)

What *PaulineMRoss* said I believe is on target. 

I will add that the people who download it probably aren't your target audience, and wouldn't likely have been the individuals who would've gone to Amazon/Smashwords/iTunes/Kobo/Nook or wherever to download your book, even if it was free there. 

Maybe one will cross over eventually over to purchasing or legitimate downloading...


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## Caged Maiden (Nov 5, 2015)

I think I've seen loads of published and successful authors take exactly that same viewpoint--let the pirates have their fun, legitimate buyers don't go to those sites and if they're really interested in your work, they'll buy it in the future.  I mean, people who steal know they're doing it and they do it for their own reasons.  Maybe they have no money, maybe they believe authors aren't worth paying.  Whatever their reasons, there's probably not much anyone can do to change their minds, because they're not out there reading blogs about how hard writers work to publish their books and about how much money it costs to self-publish.  So, though it feels like someone's stealing from you personally, I think the view I have to take is that at least people are reading my work, though some of them aren't yet convinced I'm worth spending money on.  I'll try to get those ones in the future.

I know I've read a few books (look insides when considering what i'd like to buy), and the messages that stuck with me the most are things like: " Hey, if you stole my book, I forgive you.  I don't know your situation, so I'm not judging.  But if you like it, would you please tell your friends how much you enjoyed it?"

The ones that don't resonate with me come off as whiny: "If you stole this book, you should know that I spent $2000 on an editor, $500 on cover art, and two years of my life in the writing.  Shame on you for being so cheap."

Of the two, I would prefer to be the first guy, really.  Because what difference is a plea to a pirate? Will it get him to change his ways?


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## FifthView (Nov 5, 2015)

Hey, no one steals what they think is worthless.


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## Steerpike (Nov 5, 2015)

TWErvin2 said:


> What *PaulineMRoss* said I believe is on target.
> 
> I will add that the people who download it probably aren't your target audience, and wouldn't likely have been the individuals who would've gone to Amazon/Smashwords/iTunes/Kobo/Nook or wherever to download your book, even if it was free there.
> 
> Maybe one will cross over eventually over to purchasing or legitimate downloading...



Yes, an instance of pirating doesn't equate to a lost sale. If it's a domestic site with a DMCA take down process, it's worth taking a few minutes to do it. I use Linux, so I'm not as worried about potential malware (though it isn't non-existent). It's more about the best use of my time, and for a lot of infringing sites it's not worth the time investment. You have to pick your battles.


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## Penpilot (Nov 6, 2015)

I'd think of it as almost a library lone. If someone cracks it open, you might have a potential reader that may actually pay for your stuff. But then again, I've never had my stuff stolen.

As mentioned, I'd be more on the look out for people trying to make money off my stuff, not people giving it out for free. On a side note, It's a Wonderful life became a holiday staple because its copywrite lapsed, so for a period of around 20 years nobody had to pay to show it on TV.


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## psychotick (Nov 8, 2015)

Hi,

I've been pirated plenty of times and up until recently I figured it was mostly in the too hard basket to deal with and ignored it. On principle I hate being stolen from but for a few copies it didn't seem worth it. Then I did a search on "The Arcanist" pubbed a couple of months ago and found one site where 1600 copies of my book have been freely downloaded. At $2.75 royalty per book that's $4400. That ain't no small change. In fact it's getting to the stage of law suit time.

Cheers, Greg.


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## SeverinR (Nov 10, 2015)

So is this a problem with self publishing, epublishing?
Is any one site worse for having stuff pirated?
Don't the epublishers have protection against copying material?

I'm assuming its not stolen from a PC.  Hacking someone with an unpublished good book would be trying to find a needle in a universe of haystacks. (I have 3-5 finished books in the process of editing. I don't think any are ready to go.)

Psychotick-$4400 is a lot of money to people like us, but would be less than 17 hours of paid lawyer time. In legal matters I'm thinking that isn't much for a lawsuit. (I believe $250/hour for a lawyer plus expenses.) Of course if you win, the cost is tacked on to damages. 

You have big time movies being pirated and their lawyers only take on some of the cases. Because it isn't cost effective.
You also have big name musicians losing money to pirating. People love the stars, love their work, but would steal from them without any regard for the artist.  

The biggest thing is to get the word out, that pirating is theft and hurts the artist, no matter which art you are talking about. One item pirated isn't a lot, but you get 1 hundred or a thousand it adds up.  If you want the artist to keep doing inspiring work, then we have to pay them to keep doing it.  When people are just starting out, every sale matters, For ego and for income.


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## Penpilot (Nov 10, 2015)

psychotick said:


> Hi,
> Then I did a search on "The Arcanist" pubbed a couple of months ago and found one site where 1600 copies of my book have been freely downloaded. At $2.75 royalty per book that's $4400. That ain't no small change. In fact it's getting to the stage of law suit time.



Stealing is stealing, but I think, you have to look at it in a different way. Of those 1600 people, how many do you think would really have bought your book? IMHO most of those people are downloading your book because it's a free book, not necessarily because it's your specific book.

Offer anything up for free, and people who would otherwise not care will grab one just because.  So, to my thinking, it's not a lost sale. Yes, they're getting something for nothing, but Michael Stackpole made a good point on this in a podcast. He said all those people downloading books, most of those books end up on a hard drive bunched up with thousands of other books these people download and rarely ever get seen again.

So in the big picture, I'm not sure your loosing as much as the numbers indicate.

To my thinking, I'd say to the downloaders to keep downloading. Fill up that hard drive with millions of books, and then buy another hard drive and fill that up too. Keep downloading, and while you're doing that, you'll never have time to read any of them.


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## skip.knox (Nov 11, 2015)

FifthView said:


> Hey, no one steals what they think is worthless.



Actually, they do. Or, more precisely, they will steal stuff they can get easily on the off-chance of selling it as part of a larger package. Or, even more likely, they will steal your stuff in order to dangle it in front of the unwary and unguarded, so they can scam or phish, which is their real target. 

It's part of life in the now-a-days.


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## ascanius (Nov 25, 2015)

SeverinR said:


> So is this a problem with self publishing, epublishing?
> Is any one site worse for having stuff pirated?
> Don't the epublishers have protection against copying material?



There is DRM, but DRM is more of an annoyance than actual protection.  Thing to keep in mind if it's digital there is ALWAYS a way around ANY protection.  

Me I really dislike DRM because I'm a firm believer in the first sale doctrine.  And all experiences I've had have been infuriating annoyances.


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