# Setting or story first?



## Jabrosky (Sep 10, 2013)

Links to my setting's map on DeviantArt and Tumblr

So I have this continent populated by four of the "classic" fantasy races: orcs, elves, dwarves, and humans. Don't worry, I have ideas on how to make each of these races distinct from how they're typically portrayed in fantasy, but that's not what I want to discuss in this thread. What I want to discuss is whether it's a good idea to develop your world before you have a story plotted out for it. Right now I have a few vague ideas for conflicts between my world's nations and races bubbling in my head, but that's about it as far as plot development goes. I know there is the old problem of world-builder's disease distracting you from the actual writing process, but on the other hand I feel I need to know at least a few things about my setting before I go writing anything. Which works better for you, starting the writing or plotting first or developing the world beforehand?


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## WooHooMan (Sep 10, 2013)

One of my stories is all about a character exploring the setting so I made the world first and built the plot around it.  My other story is all about the characters and what they go through so I developed the plot first and made the setting around it.
Setting and plot are both aspects of the story.  They both, as with most of the narrative elements, should be in service of the story.  So if the setting is secondary to the plot, make the plot first.  If your story is all about the world, make the setting first.
That's generally how I look at it.

Also, if you think you have a problem with world-builder's disease, then I'd suggest making the story first.  Just to be safe.


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## Svrtnsse (Sep 10, 2013)

When I started my current WIP it was intended as a setting for pen & paper RPGs. I had no plans on actually writing stories set in the world. As I worked on it one of the friends I kept pestering with questions and comments asked if I couldn't write a short story about a day in the life of a typical inhabitant of the world and the rest, as they say, is history...

Writing turned out to be rather fun and I've written a whole plethora of short stories and I've started on my first novel. I don't do much, if any, work on the setting anymore, but with the year and a half or so I've spent on it I have a fairly good idea of how the world works and I think that helps me in my writing.

My advice would be to keep working on the world-building. As you keep at it you will sooner or later come across some incident or concept that you will want to explore further and which will be very suitable for an actual story. Then take it from there and see what happens.

(summary of the setting I created available at Summary and Introduction - Odd Lands Wiki)


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## dhrichards (Sep 10, 2013)

I think world development helps, a little. I find myself having trouble with my WIP because I have not thought out the world well enough in advance. But hey, that's what revising is for!


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## TheokinsJ (Sep 10, 2013)

I find that what works best for me, is that neither must come first, both should develop simultaneously. I need a small idea for a story to begin, not even a solid idea, just something to fuel my world building. Once I have a basic outline of the plot I draw the map, the map dictates the story, and the story dictates the map. If my main character has to ride from city 'x' to city 'y' to find the magical crystal that will save the world, then city 'y' will have to be far away with many obstacles in it's way. In the same way, I find that if I have a map- I can create stories simply out of the world I created. If two kingdoms are neighbouring each other, one worships one god and the other worships another, or one is poor and one is rich- this can be fuel for my plot to start a conflict.
Of coarse, I find that nothing should be set in stone. I planned my story for four years, and in that time the plot changed half a dozen times. I tore up the maps and redrew them, renamed places and characters. The world and the plot are entwined, they cannot be separated, and the way I work is by doing both at once, discovering both the plot and the world as I go.


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## yachtcaptcolby (Sep 10, 2013)

I think it also depends heavily on the type of story you want to tell. Are you looking to write character-driven fiction, or do you just want to play around in an interesting setting?


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## Devor (Sep 10, 2013)

The short answer is that you start by building on whatever idea makes you excited to write.

The long answer is that your concept of the setting has to be flexible enough to change with the complex needs of your story.  If you start by focusing too much on the setting, you're at risk of the setting becoming your "darling" that you hold onto even if it doesn't suit the needs of your story.

For me, I start with "idea X," whatever that is, and quickly move into figuring out a story around it.  Once I have my story concept, I go "fishing" for ideas by brainstorming the setting, the characters, and some plot ideas, with a deadline for when to put that aside and write.


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## MFreako (Sep 10, 2013)

I tend to flesh out both setting and story as I go along. Tried to do it differently, didn't work. My outlines tend to be really lean because of that. Even so, things usually turn out different than I'd expected. I sometimes think I have a pretty good understanding of the plot, the setting, or the characters, then the story proves me wrong.

I'm thinking it's different for everyone, so I'll just say go with what you feel. Feel like you should have a better understanding of your setting? Go ahead, brainstorm, flesh it out. If that doesn't work, you can always put it aside and pants.


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## Chessie (Sep 10, 2013)

Chicken or the egg?  They are equally important, in my opinion, and compliment one another. The setting sets the ambiance for the story, and the story enhances the setting. Its a beautiful partnership.


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## SeverinR (Sep 10, 2013)

I thought chicken or the egg too.
But one comes before the other, at this point it really doesn't matter which happens first.
Most of the time I build the setting around the story, but my new WIP was started with the setting and placed the characters after.

The world is usually built before the people find themselves in it. But we are the creators, so we can build the backdrop or the people to inhabit it first. Simply create backstory to explain why they characters are where they are (not neccessarily included in the story, as long as you create the story with the backstory in mind.) and how they got there so it apears the setting was there before.
Unless of course, your story includes genesis. Then you create the setting as the characters discover it.


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## Svrtnsse (Sep 10, 2013)

From a hypothetical point of view (as in: I haven't tried this myself) it's probably easier to build the world first and then fit the story to the world than the other way around.

What I'm thinking is that if you have an existing world where you know how things work you'll fit the story into that and the same "rules" of the world apply consistently throughout the story. If you do it the other way around and create the story first you may end up with inconsistencies in the setting. Something in the beginning of the story may work in one way while the same thing at the end of the story has to work differently in order to fit the plot.
This can of course be avoid by careful planning and tweaking, but I believe that if you make the world first you have an easier time avoiding that kind of mistake.


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## Bruce McKnight (Sep 13, 2013)

I've personally always started with a plot.

I'm a story-first kinda guy. It seems a lot easier to change my world to fit my story than vice versa. Then, after the first couple of stories, my setting was established and it became easier to write within it. There's been plenty of times where I have gone back into older stories to make tweaks because a later work further developed the world and I wanted to enrich the older story a little more. As I've written more tales in the same land, I have continually added detail to the history of the setting and occasionally gotten lost in world-building.


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## ThinkerX (Sep 14, 2013)

Said this before, and I'll say it again.

I spent way too much time on the world building end of things way back when.  True, I was thinking as much 'gaming' as I was 'writing', but still too much.

That said, once you get into the writing, it is real handy to know at least some things about the world - have a skeleton on which to build, so to speak.


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## wordwalker (Sep 14, 2013)

I think the whole "or" approach is deceptive.

You can start with either, but what you'll really be doing is looking at one and then sooner or later shifting to the other to see how you've refined it, and then back again. _"A kingdom with some rough neighbors? --Hey, a border fort sounds like a great place for a story, maybe a city kid arriving and needing to prove himself there. --So, how would the border squads really be set up, how close-knit are they? --Maybe a patrol captain's losing his mind, does our hero have to convince the men to mutiny? --But would they..."_

It's that back and forth that keeps things consistent and plausible, and also helps the story find (and seed) fun possibilities by seeing what conflict is there. I think it's the real key; the rest is just finding what starting place, emphasis, and rhythm between the two is more comfortable.


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## shangrila (Sep 15, 2013)

Plot. The greatest crafted world won't sell or create an interesting story if the plot/characters don't match.

That said, don't rush either one. It took me a while to develop the world most of my stories inhabit and it's worth it to have a strong base, since it leaves less to worry about when you're writing (you'll have a strong idea of magic, races, nations, etc).


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## Gurkhal (Sep 15, 2013)

For myself I think that you should have basic grasp on the world before you start the story, but you don't need the details. Those can be made up as the story needs them.


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## buyjupiter (Sep 22, 2013)

I have a SF WIP that required a ton of world building. I had to set the story aside until I could figure out what the species I was writing about was like. Which has led to building a society from scratch, figuring out a new way of faster than light travel, and figuring out how to write a convincing alien species that didn't go Star Trek. (No forehead ridges to be seen!)

The world building has led to many story ideas in the universe. I've got several of those plotted out. But I generally work back and forth between the two modes of thinking. At least for SciFi writing.

If I'm writing fantasy or more genre-muddled fiction, then character and story become the focus. For my current story, I had a character that popped into my head and then the story became very clear as I wrote about this girl. I then had to work on setting, and figure out the rules for a magic system as I went. That caused no end of problems about halfway through when I realized that I needed some consistency to an oak tree that was a place of power. I've since fixed the continuity errors, and realized I strongly prefer having a good sense of setting before starting. (This may have something to do with the settings getting ideas about how they're really characters and if I'd write them a quick line in here, they'd really start behaving themselves.)

I think that as long as both are adequately addressed, you'll be fine. It may take you longer to sort out inconsistencies if you do all of one or the other first and then write in the other later. Drawing maps may help. Or writing a list of scenes with their locations may help you figure out what you have to do to get there.


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## GeekDavid (Sep 23, 2013)

Personally, based only on my limited experience, for me story comes first.

All of my stories (including those relegated to the trash bin) have pretty much started with the question, "What if?"

My current project -- the first I intend to publish -- started with the question, "What if a weak, bookish, disabled mage was sent away from his safe library on a quest?" Everything else sort of flowed from that, including the setting and institutions. For example, there has to be someone paying for the books, so a Guild of Mages was written in.

Whether or not it turns into something people are willing to pay money to read, well, that remains to be seen.


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