# Measurements on maps?!?!



## PrincessaMiranda (Jul 29, 2012)

I have created my own world, Veda (recently named thanks to this site ) The only problem is I am mathematically ignorant and have no idea how I should make measurements and lengths relating to time and space and whatnot. Its all gibberish to me. 

Can anyone give me tips or help on this? My main WIP involves a long journey and I'm pretty sure I need this information. Please and Thank you!!!


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## Chime85 (Jul 29, 2012)

well if you are looking for distance vs time to travel from point a to point b, the average adult walks about 3.4 miles per hour (on a flat, non obstructed terrain). If you consider a 10 hour walk a day (eg:starting at 7am and stopping at 7pm with two hours worth of stopping), you are looking at 35 miles per day.

If you are familiar with towns and cities in the uk, it is 404 miles from London to Edinburgh by road (332 miles in a straight line). If your characters walked the roads from London to Edinburgh, you are looking at 11 days travel at walking speed (providing they don't get lost or delayed lol).

x


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## PrincessaMiranda (Jul 29, 2012)

Well, luckily she gets a horse. Magical horse even!  

I also need help with actually PUTTING the distance on my maps. I know my planet is smaller than Earth, therefore less gravity. She is from Earth so she has a kind of Superman thing going, only at a less super level. She can walk longer without getting tired and her strides are slightly longer. I'd say it was like Mars? Not sure. That is where I need help. Measuring distances and such involves math. Math and I don't get along! I think I need an astrophysicist.


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## Chime85 (Jul 29, 2012)

ok well mars has 62% less gravity than earth, so she would be VERY strong in comparison to the locals on your planet. The circumfance of the earth (from the equator) is  3,963 miles. Mars has an equatial circumfrance of 2,110 miles. Her strides would not be longer (unless she jumped lol) as of course, her legs do not grow any bigger, her distance over time would remain the same. 

x


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## Lorna (Jul 29, 2012)

Well first of all you need an idea of the size and shape of your world. 

Is it round or flat? Does it float in space, fly on wings or sit on the back of a turtle? 

Is it the size of Britain, America, the Earth, or bigger? 

Once you've decided the answer to these questions you need a scale. 
My world's easy to measure because it's flat and it's about the size of Britain. So I've got an inch to every fifty miles. After that I've placed my cities and landscape features. Then all I need to do for travel times is decide on the speed of a human, a steed and a dragon in miles per hour, measure the distance on the map and I can work out how to get my peoples from A to B in time for battles etc.


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## Zero Angel (Jul 29, 2012)

I have pocket universes built into my world that can either be there or not and alter distances to explain any "mistakes" concerning distances and speed travel. 

But I applaud the mathematical steps taken by so many.

Decide how long you want it to take, then multiply that number by the numbers provided by Chime85 and that is how many miles away things need to be. And if you want an average horse speed, I recommend Google. Again,

hours * (miles per hour) = miles

or 

time * speed = distance


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## PrincessaMiranda (Jul 30, 2012)

Chime85 said:


> ok well mars has 62% less gravity than earth, so she would be VERY strong in comparison to the locals on your planet. The circumfance of the earth (from the equator) is  3,963 miles. Mars has an equatial circumfrance of 2,110 miles. Her strides would not be longer (unless she jumped lol) as of course, her legs do not grow any bigger, her distance over time would remain the same.
> 
> x



Maybe a little bigger than mars then. @[email protected] See how clueless I am, I should probably do some research, as daunting as that is...

Also a jog would probably be faster because its kind of a jumping motion. Her strides may be longer due to how she doesnt tire as fast. I know my strides shorten as I get tired.


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## PrincessaMiranda (Jul 30, 2012)

Lorna said:


> Well first of all you need an idea of the size and shape of your world.
> 
> Is it round or flat? Does it float in space, fly on wings or sit on the back of a turtle?
> 
> ...




My world is round, a lot like Earth, the person who created it was FROM Earth, (And had help from the Fae) so I need to make it as close to Earth as possible, but smaller and with a natural flow of magic at its core. My magic is extremely scientific. Oddly I'm great at Science but not Math. Therefore the dilemma. DO you suppose I should work on a smaller scale first?


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## PrincessaMiranda (Jul 30, 2012)

Zero Angel said:


> I have pocket universes built into my world that can either be there or not and alter distances to explain any "mistakes" concerning distances and speed travel.
> 
> But I applaud the mathematical steps taken by so many.
> 
> ...




Ah, but the World is has other stories incorporated into it! So judging by one journey could  throw off another, but that is a good idea. I can probably make it work. 

I didnt even think of MPH!! @[email protected] Sometimes I feel like such a fool. Though my brain practically refuses to process any information regarding numbers. I believe I may have dyscalculia. (It's like dyslexia, but with numbers.)


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## ThinkerX (Jul 30, 2012)

Ok...

1) From the science POV, Mars is just barely big enough to hold onto a breathable earth-like atmosphere.  Actually, best case says that even if Mars was terraformed, the upper plateau's, or around half the planet would be in near vacuum.   So, you want a world larger than Mars and yet smaller than Earth.  For the effects your after, something with a diameter of around 5000 miles (circumference of 15,500 miles, give or take a bit) would probably work.

2) So, if you go with the above, and start walking east or west along the equator (doesn't matter which), and figuring 20 miles a day - less in rougher terrain, more in good terrain, then it would take 775 days of 24 hours each to walk all the way around the world - at the equator.  (or a bit over two years). Try this at say latitude 60, the circumference is going to be a *lot* less, and the trip would probably take about an earth year.

3) Trying to map a sphere onto a flat surface can be a pain.  If this were accounted for in many fantasy 'world maps', the more northerly regions would look either oddly compressed (distances a lot shorter than the scale would indicate) or the more northerly corners would be a lot closer together on the 'far side' than you might think.  Usually, this distortion effect doesn't become pronounced until around latitudes 40 - 50.


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## PrincessaMiranda (Jul 30, 2012)

ThinkerX said:


> Ok...
> 
> 1) From the science POV, Mars is just barely big enough to hold onto a breathable earth-like atmosphere.  Actually, best case says that even if Mars was terraformed, the upper plateau's, or around half the planet would be in near vacuum.   So, you want a world larger than Mars and yet smaller than Earth.  For the effects your after, something with a diameter of around 5000 miles (circumference of 15,500 miles, give or take a bit) would probably work.
> 
> ...



Ok, about 5,000 does sound pretty good. I didnt realize it would be so close. I could always make stuff up, but I dont want to be lazy. Maybe I can find a cartographer program online to help me.


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## ThinkerX (Jul 30, 2012)

> Ok, about 5,000 does sound pretty good. I didnt realize it would be so close. I could always make stuff up, but I dont want to be lazy. Maybe I can find a cartographer program online to help me.



Sounds like your world is going to have some pretty big blank spots.  A lot of them, though, can be filled in later.

I wouldn't know about online cartography programs.  I've done it with pen and paper - and text.  The version that worked for me the best had the world split into four 'quarters' which sort of broke apart in the higher and lower latitudes - but then again, I didn't take those maps past latitude 50.

For what it is worth, my primary world has a diamter only a bit over 6000 miles (but it is also a tad heavier than earth, so the gravities are closer).  Even so, I ended up with so much empty space I made most of the southern hemisphere into plains country, dominated by less than friendly nomads. But then I had only one real ocean - landlocked to boot.


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## PrincessaMiranda (Jul 30, 2012)

I've already made a map, but it is very different from the one I drew out first. So different I may have to change it again. I got rid of most of the countries, so im left with giant countries and only two continents. That said, the world is younger and has more variables concerning the physical aspects, due to the pure magic power that emanates from it. Sort of its own type of radiation, but less scary. 

(You see how I turn fun stuff into science!? I should be hanged!)


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## ThinkerX (Jul 30, 2012)

> I've already made a map, but it is very different from the one I drew out first. So different I may have to change it again. I got rid of most of the countries, so im left with giant countries and only two continents. That said, the world is younger and has more variables concerning the physical aspects, due to the pure magic power that emanates from it. Sort of its own type of radiation, but less scary.



'Giant Countries' = 'Greater Internal Distances' = 'Major Pain to Govern/Oversee' = 'Greater travel times' (barring some sort of 'teleport' system.  Or, with giant countries, you are going to have giant blank spots *within* those countries.

Two suggestions, which don't mesh all that well:

1) Instead of an actual planet, go with a 'pocket dimension' or 'demi-plane' - something like the island in 'Lost'.  

OR

2) Your world creator was not acting alone, but in conjunction with several other powerful people from backgrounds / cultures radically different than his / hers.  Once the world was created, each of these other characters claimed a continent or region as their personal playground. Your creator might try to pretend very hard the world was all his / hers own creation, but is being self deceptive here.

That said...I have read some works where the world was almost all ocean, barring some islands.  LeGuins 'EarthSea' leaps to mind here, as does another old novel (title escapes me, but I found the premise intriguing).


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## Svrtnsse (Jul 31, 2012)

If there's magic power emanating from the world, is there anything that says the amount of magic is constant all over the place or is it variable? If it's variable that might explain why journeys of the same length may not be done in the same time, even if by the same person.
If there's an excess of magic power radiation in an area it could serve to weaken or strengthen travelers or it could slow down or speed up time (though probably only very slightly).


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## PrincessaMiranda (Jul 31, 2012)

ThinkerX said:


> 'Giant Countries' = 'Greater Internal Distances' = 'Major Pain to Govern/Oversee' = 'Greater travel times' (barring some sort of 'teleport' system.  Or, with giant countries, you are going to have giant blank spots *within* those countries.
> 
> Two suggestions, which don't mesh all that well:
> 
> ...




The creation tool here is what I call the Hand of God, ( I havent given it a form yet. Not sure where to go there, but I'm sure it will hit me while I'm drifting off to sleep.) If gives the user the Ultimate Power, namely, to create. I have a story that involves a sort of Pocket dimension. It's an origin story about Neverland. (Thats Top Secret!) 

The Creator of Veda did indeed use another race for help. He was a druid/wizard that found the Hand, mostly experimenting before he took any large leaps. Since he knew nothing of the Earths true form, being in the time before such knowledge, the queen of Fae helped him create the world in return for a refuge for the creatures they knew man would try to destroy. The Druid only created it to save his druid race from the threat of the Romans ( He was warned by the Fae) 

But I digress!


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## PrincessaMiranda (Jul 31, 2012)

Svrtnsse said:


> If there's magic power emanating from the world, is there anything that says the amount of magic is constant all over the place or is it variable? If it's variable that might explain why journeys of the same length may not be done in the same time, even if by the same person.
> If there's an excess of magic power radiation in an area it could serve to weaken or strengthen travelers or it could slow down or speed up time (though probably only very slightly).




the magic springs from the core of that planet, mixed into the very core to keep it going. The descendants of the druid creator are the keepers of each particular country and weaker mages run the provinces. They make sure the magic doesnt get out of control and quell any disputes which may come up with some of the slightly mutant races of that planet. 

The traveler in this first story is one of those descendants so she would have some, unconscious, control over the world. I could get into so many details! But this thread is about maps, not my story. I feel a little vain.  So sorry.


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## Zero Angel (Jul 31, 2012)

ThinkerX said:


> 1) From the science POV, Mars is just barely big enough to hold onto a breathable earth-like atmosphere.  Actually, best case says that even if Mars was terraformed, the upper plateau's, or around half the planet would be in near vacuum.   So, you want a world larger than Mars and yet smaller than Earth.  For the effects your after, something with a diameter of around 5000 miles (circumference of 15,500 miles, give or take a bit) would probably work.


My research doesn't support this. Do you recall where you saw this about the near vacuum? Also, I should point out that you are assuming PrincessaMiranda's fantasy world has the same mineral composition as Mars. Could easily have a heavier core or even evenly distribute some extra weight (or the magick could have its own gravitational pull), enabling her to set the gravity percent at whatever she likes. 



Svrtnsse said:


> If there's magic power emanating from the world, is there anything that says the amount of magic is constant all over the place or is it variable? If it's variable that might explain why journeys of the same length may not be done in the same time, even if by the same person.
> If there's an excess of magic power radiation in an area it could serve to weaken or strengthen travelers or it could slow down or speed up time (though probably only very slightly).



That's a great idea. This is how faerie lands in the old legends (and of course some modern fantasy) acts with regards to travel. Sometimes you travel for days and only travel a little bit, other times you travel for a few minutes and travel a great distance. It depends on the route taken and the abilities and magicks of the creatures traveling.


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## ThinkerX (Jul 31, 2012)

> My research doesn't support this. Do you recall where you saw this about the near vacuum?



That would be Kim Stanly Robinsons 'Mars' series (Red Mars, Green Mars, Blue Mars) - essentially a heavy on the science long term terraforming work.  Drilling operations and 'cometary impacts' to increase water and make the atmosphere denser - but even so still painfully thin, even in the basin regions. 



> Also, I should point out that you are assuming PrincessaMiranda's fantasy world has the same mineral composition as Mars. Could easily have a heavier core or even evenly distribute some extra weight (or the magick could have its own gravitational pull), enabling her to set the gravity percent at whatever she likes.



You are correct - Mars, ton for ton, is much lighter than Earth.  Hmmm...a denser core would allow for a greater gravity, an electromagnetic field (van allen belt equivilent) and *maybe* allow for the core as a source of magic.  

(I really should have considered that.)

It still leaves her with a lot of blank spaces to fill in, though.


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## ThinkerX (Jul 31, 2012)

> The creation tool here is what I call the Hand of God, ( I havent given it a form yet. Not sure where to go there, but I'm sure it will hit me while I'm drifting off to sleep.) If gives the user the Ultimate Power, namely, to create. I have a story that involves a sort of Pocket dimension. It's an origin story about Neverland. (Thats Top Secret!)
> 
> The Creator of Veda did indeed use another race for help. He was a druid/wizard that found the Hand, mostly experimenting before he took any large leaps. Since he knew nothing of the Earths true form, being in the time before such knowledge, the queen of Fae helped him create the world in return for a refuge for the creatures they knew man would try to destroy. The Druid only created it to save his druid race from the threat of the Romans ( He was warned by the Fae)





> the magic springs from the core of that planet, mixed into the very core to keep it going. The descendants of the druid creator are the keepers of each particular country and weaker mages run the provinces. They make sure the magic doesnt get out of control and quell any disputes which may come up with some of the slightly mutant races of that planet.



My qualm here is that you have an entire planet with essentially a single culture on it.   Oh, you have different nations, but those nations all spring from the same two 'roots', and as such share a certain commonality.  

You have room here for far more than what you have.  Possibly your Druid/Wizard was working with others besides the fae?  Maybe somebody else contributed a 'needed element' of some sort - somebody from an alien culture (Egyptian, Chinese, South Asian, African, ect - or better yet a group of these somebodies).


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## PrincessaMiranda (Jul 31, 2012)

Zero Angel said:


> That's a great idea. This is how faerie lands in the old legends (and of course some modern fantasy) acts with regards to travel. Sometimes you travel for days and only travel a little bit, other times you travel for a few minutes and travel a great distance. It depends on the route taken and the abilities and magicks of the creatures traveling.



OMG! That was just the push I needed, the Fae _helped_ create the thing! Of course it could have some of their qualities! In fact the Reigning wizard could easily manipulate her travels and even WHERE she ends up! Thus solving my problem where her going through each region would take FOREVER, he wants her to see his entire Hold and what she would rule. While also testing her to se if she is worthy. If he controls the journey ... OH THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!!!


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## Zero Angel (Jul 31, 2012)

ThinkerX said:


> That would be Kim Stanly Robinsons 'Mars' series (Red Mars, Green Mars, Blue Mars) - essentially a heavy on the science long term terraforming work.  Drilling operations and 'cometary impacts' to increase water and make the atmosphere denser - but even so still painfully thin, even in the basin regions.


Thanks! I have read about these, but have not gotten a chance to check them out myself. Do you recommend them?



ThinkerX said:


> It still leaves her with a lot of blank spaces to fill in, though.


I agree! That's where the fun begins!


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## Zero Angel (Jul 31, 2012)

@PrincessaMiranda: Thanks, but I was just elaborating on what Svrtnsse had started before me. 

If your character has some sort of inner secret magick, then she could subconsciously be manipulating her travels as well. I'm glad you had the breakthrough you were looking for!


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## PrincessaMiranda (Jul 31, 2012)

ThinkerX said:


> My qualm here is that you have an entire planet with essentially a single culture on it.   Oh, you have different nations, but those nations all spring from the same two 'roots', and as such share a certain commonality.
> 
> You have room here for far more than what you have.  Possibly your Druid/Wizard was working with others besides the fae?  Maybe somebody else contributed a 'needed element' of some sort - somebody from an alien culture (Egyptian, Chinese, South Asian, African, etc - or better yet a group of these somebodies).



The Queen rules ALL the Fae, even the ones not quite termed as Fae, such as the Spirits of the Native Americans, (i.e. Coyote spirit, deer woman... ) to kappas and gremlins. The Fae weren't very interested in the world, just enough to leave their own mark. Plus the amount of time+ evolution and magical mutation have created a multitude of races and species that even EArth has never known. Like the Pantera Quipoli- Feline humanoids; cat dragons, Ribbon Whales, squirrel-like Peikas all the way down to glowing insects that live in caverns. 

There is no lack of diversity in my world, trust me.


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## PrincessaMiranda (Jul 31, 2012)

Zero Angel said:


> @PrincessaMiranda: Thanks, but I was just elaborating on what Svrtnsse had started before me.
> 
> If your character has some sort of inner secret magick, then she could subconsciously be manipulating her travels as well. I'm glad you had the breakthrough you were looking for!




... yes, that makes sense! You just opened up a whole bucket of meat for the bones of my story!


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## Zero Angel (Jul 31, 2012)

It's always nice to flesh the bones out a little more! I am glad I could be of assistance.


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## ThinkerX (Jul 31, 2012)

> Thanks! I have read about these, but have not gotten a chance to check them out myself. Do you recommend them?



Very much so.  Unlike a lot of SF, his science was solid enough to where it warrented serious discussion on a couple of astronomy sites I used to frequent. 

He tracks a dozen or so characters across the full scope of terraforming Mars from start to finish over couple centuries.  Said characters have different backgrounds and motivations - some want the terraforming to succeed, some do not want Mars terraformed at all, and some are in it for the power.  Some work openly, others in hiding.  A couple times they have to deal with what amounts to an 'invasion from earth'. And while there is romance and intrigue aplenty, there are also a couple people pondering the science aspects almost continually - this is what this installation does in the terraforming process, what we expect, and these are the risks.

My main objections are he might have way overestimated the amount of water, plus I don't believe he ever really accounted for the magnetic field problem.  

rambled on a bit much I see.


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