# Infinity War (Spoilers!)



## Black Dragon (Apr 27, 2018)

I saw Avengers: Infinity War last night, and was rather surprised by the twists in the story.  Let's talk about it.

*Warning!  Lots of Spoilers in this thread!*

First, the ending was shocking.  I did not see that coming.  It felt as if George R.R. Martin had written the film.  In fact, it could have been titled Avengers: Red Wedding.  Peter Dinklage was right at home in this film.

What are your reactions?


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## Gryphos (Apr 29, 2018)

I found it to be (in a good way) one of the most draining film-going experiences of my life, constantly putting me on edge and never allowing a chance to fully relax.

I think that Thanos was definitely the star of the show; I wasn't expecting the film to go as deep as it did into what makes him tick, but I found that to be the best part. I absolutely loved the final shot of him just sitting down and resting, watching the sunrise like he said he would when his work was finally done. He also had a good amount of menace, especially in that great sequence when he's taking out the Avengers one at a time as they each try to stop him reaching Vision.

The massacre at the end is definitely powerful stuff. I can't think how they're gonna bring them all back (assuming they do, of course). Captain Marvel will probably play a big role in that, though, as hinted by the post-credit scene, anyway.

But to back up for a second, I find the circumstances of this film to be truly spectacular. I mean, we're talking 10 years, 19 films, dozens of characters. It's a cultural landmark, 21st century mythology. And whatever your opinion of it, no one can deny that the MCU truly is unprecedented in its success and cultural pervasiveness.


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## Ban (Apr 29, 2018)

I was rooting for Thanos all the way through. That might say something about his characterisation, or about my character. Jury is still out on that one.


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## Black Dragon (Apr 29, 2018)

Ban said:


> I was rooting for Thanos all the way through. That might say something about his characterisation, or about my character. Jury is still out on that one.


I found Thanos to be surprisingly relatable and sympathetic.  At least, more so than I expected.


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## Black Dragon (Apr 29, 2018)

Gryphos said:


> The massacre at the end is definitely powerful stuff. I can't think how they're gonna bring them all back (assuming they do, of course).



When the film was over, I was angry.  I had just watched several of my favorite characters perish in a massacre.  I was especially angered by the deaths of Starlord, Doctor Strange, Spiderman, and Black Panther.  It didn't feel like a proper sendoff for those great characters.

I was at the (sold out) first showing on opening night.  The theater was full of marvel fans wearing costumes, who cheered wildly when the film started playing.  As the credits rolled, there was no cheering.  Most of the fans sat there in shocked disbelief.  A little boy seated behind me sobbed uncontrollably as his parents tried to console him.

It certainly was not the experience that I was expecting.

Several days removed from the event, I'm not as angry now.  That's because I read through the plotline for the Infinity Gauntlet comic books, and now believe (or hope?) that these characters will be resurrected.


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## Devor (Apr 29, 2018)

We finally saw it.  My wife went with one child yesterday, and I brought two more today.  When the movie ended, one of my kids said, "Well, they just have to make a part two."

Based on movies that have been confirmed for phase 4....



Spoiler: Phase 4 confirmed movies



Guardians of the Galaxy 3, Spiderman 2, and Black Panther 2



Pretty much only the original avengers survived, but none of them have sequels lined up.

Heimdall and Loki, though.  Ontop of Ragnarok they've just about wiped out all things Thor.

edit:

My favorite moment is when the bud begs invaded wakanda...... wait.  I might possibly be mixing up my traumas.


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## pmmg (Apr 30, 2018)

I think I am just a contrary sort...

I like the marvel films, I recognize the production values are high, the attention to the characters is pretty true, and the story is an epic story, but I just cant get myself to really like the marvel stuff. Reading the above, it never occurred to me that I was supposed to be upset over the loss of the heroes at the end. In truth, I have no expectation any of them will stay that way. And most of them, I am okay with being gone anyway. I was actually a little disappointed they kept one character I was wanting not to make it, but... Ya know.

I think for me, the feeling I had at the end was a feeling of exasperation. I was hoping this would be the end of the story, and its not.... Battle with Thanos goes on. As turns out, one of the infinity stones changes time and another changes reality and so...nothing in the movies result can be said to be permanent.

I was not sold on the scene to get the soul stone. I did not believe Gamora was what Thanos loved most, and so I thought the sacrifice was insufficient, but again, I'll just have to live with it. And I totally did not go for Star Lord losing his cool just as they were about to get the gauntlet off, no one is that idiotic.

I did like the movie while I was watching it. And I did like that they showed Thanos more relatable side (though I must question is plan of getting rid of half of everything...). And, given the number of characters, I am pleased they were able to tell such a big story and not end up with character soup.

I would give it two thumbs up, but somehow, marvel is just missing something I care about, so...its not one that will make my buy list.


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## TWErvin2 (Apr 30, 2018)

I thought it was an okay movie.

It pointed out that where Thanos is logical and methodical, characters like Star-Lord's impulsiveness, wait another ten seconds to get your revenge or at least stick your ray gun in the dude's mouth and aim up toward the brain...or just cut his arm off. Or Thor, having to get his monologue in...

But, if it were the other way around, and the 'villain' made similar errors in judgment at critical moments, viewers would have felt somewhat cheated.

When I noted Black Panther's passing as well as some other very popular ones, like Spider Man, I am confident their deaths will not stand long term. Too much money involved, so stopping in a cliffhanger is pretty cheap and exploitative. I don't generally put up with such as a reader so, if I would've known as a viewer, I would not have gone to watch. Maybe waited for it to be on Netfix or something.

It seems apparent that Dr. Strange, having examined the 14 million or so futures, proceeded toward the only option to, in the end, succeed in the End Game he mentioned, and which is the name of the second half, I guess.


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## Black Dragon (May 3, 2018)

If the fallen heroes are resurrected in the next film, will it feel "cheap" and undermine the gravity of Infinity War?


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## pmmg (May 3, 2018)

You know, they used to say in comics, no one stays dead but Uncle Ben and Bucky, but now that's not even true.

I don't know if it will feel cheap or not. I do expect they will all magically come back, probably in a manner similar to the way they all magically vanished.

I do think, given that million possibilities that Dr Strange looked at, I am sure he picked the one where Thanos get defeated and his plan is undone, even if that means he is temporarily gone.

Here is a fun video I found on Thanos's master plan.


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## Devor (May 3, 2018)

It does often feel cheap when the dead come back, but I don't think it will in this case.  The deaths were sudden and shocking, and unfulfilling for the the individual characters, and the directors are promising that fixing things will come at a cost.

On the other hand, Gamora's character, for instance, came to a real, fairly satisfying conclusion.  Undoing a death of that nature would feel cheap, and the actress in interviews sounds like she isn't returning ("it's been a great run").  She will probably be in some kind of ghost scene or flashback though.


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## Tom (May 3, 2018)

I just saw Infinity War tonight and it's...wow. Overwhelming.


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## Black Dragon (May 4, 2018)

Tom said:


> I just saw Infinity War tonight and it's...wow. Overwhelming.


What overwhelmed you the most?


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## Tom (May 4, 2018)

Black Dragon said:


> What overwhelmed you the most?


Probably the sheer amount of storylines. I wasn't too fazed by the sudden and dire ending--it didn't have enough leading up to it to have any emotional impact so I'm pretty sure most of the deaths are going to be ultimately reversible (except for Gamora's, hers had finality to it). 

Honestly after I thought Thor died at the beginning, throughout the entire movie I just held on to the fact that he was still alive. He's easily my favorite character and I was upset after Infinity War undid Ragarok's optimistic ending. If they had killed him it would have felt cheap and overblown.


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## skip.knox (May 4, 2018)

My wife and I saw it yesterday. I thought it was great. This stuff reverberates deeply for me because these were the comics that first pulled me in, back in the 1970s. I never read comics as a child; I came them in my early 20s. I was lucky enough to watch Jim Starlin invent Thanos and Drax and Gamora and Nebula. I read Jungle Action's Black Panther as they came out. Guardians of the Galaxy, all that.

I drifted away in the mid-1980s and never really came back. I watched as people made really bad comic book movies. And I cheered at the first X-Men movie (I was there for their resurrection, too, in Giant Size X-Men). But I bailed before the Infinity War series.

So, I'm familiar with comic book conventions, since I cut my teeth on the Avengers-Defenders War. I think Feige&Co. have done a fine job handling the movie equivalent of a multi-issue cross-over. I feel incredibly fortunate to be around for all this. It reminds me a bit of the initial Star Wars movies--the ambition, the courage to embrace mythic themes, and my own excitement of feeling a part of it.

I look forward to doing a marathon of the completed work one of these fine days. Er, months.


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## pmmg (May 4, 2018)

I followed comics for a short period of my life. I would say late high-school, early 20's. Maybe not that late. I was up for buying most anything that I could start at #1 with, and did not really go for the big series, but I did follow a few. X-men was the most convoluted thing of them all. It would literally end a comic with a cliff hanger such as Prof X getting hit in the head with a brick, or colossus getting impaled by a steel girder from a giant junk monster, and start the next one with a new story, and Prof X and Colossus would be meandering about is if I was supposed to forget about all that other stuff and just go with it that it was a new story now.

I was indifferent at the time as to whether DC or Marvel was the better universe, but kind of leaned towards marvel as DC was kind of Dudley Do-right, and not edgy enough. I also was into a lot of smaller comics companies. Groo the Wanderer from PC comics is still one of the best ever, and Elf Quest, and well a bunch of others. But you know, after all the time has passed, I still look to Marvel and DC as the comics I have any real interest in.

After much time, I have almost completely fallen away from Marvel. I like the DC universe better. I wish their movies did not suck, but they do. Honestly, I wish they would stop, wait till they really have something so say on the big screen and then come out with all guns blazing. These movies they are putting out now strike me as just "Hey, if marvel can do it....".

For me, Marvel is just a universe with no hope. There is no character that I can put my faith in, and no character who puts faith in anything. A symptom of this is Thor's Axe. He goes on about saying he needs a weapon to kill Thanos and it needs to be made by this special dwarf and in a special way, and wielded by himself, of course, as he is worthy, and guess what? He fails to kill Thanos with it. Seems his faith in a weapon was misplaced. Could be they are trying to tell a story with that, but really I don't think so. I think they are just being Marvel.

Even at the end of the crappy Justice League movie, there is a belief that the light will find a way. I find that a more compelling message.

Fortunately, my kids both like Spiderman (who secretly is probably my least favorite hero, though I did like Toby McGuire), so I get to keep seeing Spiderman again and again. (Which has now apparently become a story about look at my cool Tony Stark suit and can I control it, and not really spiderman at all, but...).

I am glad the Marvel stuff is of such high quality. While I don't care much for their stories, they put out some damn good movies. I always love when a big movie franchise is putting out a series that I can ruminate on and look forward too again and again. Right now it is Marvel....and John Wick  I rather see a new John Wick than anything Marvel.


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## abydos6 (May 7, 2018)

It was for me, a complete mix of feelings.


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## Gryphos (May 9, 2018)

On the subject of resurrecting the dead characters, I'm convinced that everyone who died 'normally', not by the finger-snap (so, Loki, Gamora, Vision) will stay dead. As for the dustified people, I think they'll be brought back, but at the cost of the lives of a couple of the remaining Avengers. Symbolically, it's going to be the OG Avengers (Iron Man, Cap, Thor) sacrificing themselves to save the new generation (Spiderman, Black Panther, etc).


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## Devor (May 9, 2018)

Gryphos said:


> On the subject of resurrecting the dead characters, I'm convinced that everyone who died 'normally', not by the finger-snap (so, Loki, Gamora, Vision) will stay dead. As for the dustified people, I think they'll be brought back, but at the cost of the lives of a couple of the remaining Avengers. Symbolically, it's going to be the OG Avengers (Iron Man, Cap, Thor) sacrificing themselves to save the new generation (Spiderman, Black Panther, etc).



I think they will be less kill-happy than that.  There are other ways that the OG can sacrifice themselves besides dying.



Spoiler: Predictions for Avengers 4 based on the comics



Iron Man in the comics has an arc where he becomes disabled and is trapped in the suit because it provides life support.  It wouldn't surprise me if he has to face something similar just as he was hoping to start a family.

Thor has already sacrificed a lot to get where he is - in the comics, Asgard gets rebuilt on Earth, and I think that'll still happen.  Thanos only killed half his people, and at least one character is confirmed to have escaped. I don't think Ragnarok's ending is going to be completely wiped out.  I think Thor's off to a more upbeat ending.

Cap is a likely contender for dying, in part because Chris Evans has expressed that he wants to work on other things.  But I expect they'll "trap" him somewhere in space or time instead of killing him off entirely - there's precedent for him suffering a similar fate.  In fact, the comics at one point have several characters trapped in a neverending battle with Thanos in the "cancerverse" in the comics, and Cap might go that route.

Hawkeye has been radically underused, and has a lot of areas of growth based on the comics.  There's little chance, I think, that he dies.  I predict he's due for a huge tech-based backup weapon beyond the bow.



Also, Vision's fate may not have been all that decisive.


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## Garren Jacobsen (May 10, 2018)

Devor said:


> I think they will be less kill-happy than that.  There are other ways that the OG can sacrifice themselves besides dying.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Here is an interesting prediction video that I like and would love to see happen.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (May 20, 2018)

Black Dragon said:


> I saw Avengers: Infinity War last night, and was rather surprised by the twists in the story.  Let's talk about it.
> 
> *Warning!  Lots of Spoilers in this thread!*
> 
> ...



Well, kinda hated it. 

The deaths at the end were too sudden to provoke any real emotion other than what the crap just happened. That, and knowing that they're probably not permanent...

Also, a lot of time wasted trying to make us feel sympathy for Thanos. The big reveal of ohhh, he really does love gamora! was about the most contrived thing i've ever seen. 

WandaxVision's relationship could have been great if it was developed for more than like five minutes.


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