# Building a Temple (or anything for engraving) in the jungle ?



## Twinss Risen (May 8, 2017)

Hello. 
I've been writing a story about humanity being enslaved by some unknown entities, but a group of people having escaped into the jungle, and empowering/strengthening themselves, until the time comes when they will have to fight these entities and free humanity.

Now, there is this idea I have in mind, but I have gotten a bit "stuck" due to a lack of knowledge.

*I want this group of people (into the jungle) to keep a journal of some kind*, for the rest of the world to learn about what happened in the past (if this group of people were to perish in the war, someone else might come across their journal).
*Now, in this world, there is no paper/pen etc... So, the only way they can "leave their mark" (write their journal) is to engrave it somewhere...* I do not want them to engrave their writings on trees, as this group of people is very eco-friendly etc, so they wouldn't "damage" Earth in any way.
*I thought maybe they could build some kind of a "temple" or... well, something like the pyramids of Ancient Egypt but NOT something so grand and huge, as they wouldn't have the time to do so.*

If, their only source was inside the jungle [the unknown entities that enslaved humanity do not enter the jungle for reasons] what kind of elements would they have, to build a temple and engrave things on it?
If they were to "sacrifice" a couple of trees to save humanity from forgetting of the past (to write the journal), and create temples and engravings with the trees, would there be any way to cut those trees without making excessive noise? And how would they create temples without having the civilized tools we have today?


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## Butterfly (May 8, 2017)

Cave paintings? Can pigments like ochre be found in the jungle? A temple inside a cave? - It is already built, can be hidden, may lead to underground caverns that can be extended. Archaeology has revealed that ancient miners mined with animal bones.

If it's a journal you want, then they could use animal hides.


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## Vaporo (May 8, 2017)

I second cave paintings. I'm sure that they could find some kind of dye in the middle of a jungle. Or, if they're really looking for permanence, carve directly into the stone. They may try to carve into a cliff-face if they can't find any caves, but that would get eroded away after a few centuries. However, they may not know about erosion, so...

What kind of technology is at their disposal? You only say that they don't have the civilized tools that we have today. Does that mean they're technologically just pre-industrial revolution, or are they stuck in the stone age?

Removing trees without excessive noise is probably very doable. I would find some way to support the upper half of the tree while quietly chipping away the lower half until I could carefully lay it over. Why do they need to cut trees quietly? Surely a settlement of a large group of people would attract more attention than chopping down a few trees.


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## Rkcapps (May 8, 2017)

I third cave paintings. Check out Aboriginal paintings on google. They've survived, then there's the ancient Egyptians... to me as a reader I won't analyse the correctness of your details. As long as you make sense in the world you've created, I'll follow the journey of the characters.


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## psychotick (May 9, 2017)

Hi,

Assuming noise is a serious concern, how about using caves and engraving stone walls inside them so that the cave muffles the sound. Alternatively, for get engraving per se and think pottery. Think clay tablets with histories written on them by sticks, fired in low tech stone ovens, and then the tablets gathered together somewhere - perhaps even stuck to the cave walls. Ancient Egyptians used clay tablets from memory.

Cheers, Greg.


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## Twinss Risen (May 11, 2017)

Everyone, thank you for your responses...
I'm sorry it took so long to get back at you, but I really got inspired (I kid you not) with the ideas you gave me for the caves.
Also, clay tablets... How could I not have thought of that!
The animal hides are also a good idea (they'll need to kill animals to eat anyway, they could effectively use the skin)

Seriously, I was so stuck and it's like you really pushed me out of the hole.
A trillion thank you folks.


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## elemtilas (May 11, 2017)

I was with right up to the "eco-friendly" bit. People who have fled into the jungle because there are Nasty Green Men out to enslave a/o destroy the entire human race are, really, not going to be all that concerned about the environment. Their first worry is going to be am I safe from the NGM? Is my family safe?

Once in the jungle, they're safe, so okay. Next worry is what's for dinner? Then where are we going to sleep? Then how are we going to stay safe from jungle animals and other people that might try to kill us and eat us for dinner?

In that kind of situation, tree hugging just isn't an option. Also, take a look at the cultures of real people who do actually live in jungles. They're cutting down trees all the time. They certainly _respect_ the environment --- as do all people who live close to the land --- but they also understand that they must also make use of the resources given by the environment.

Okay, enough said about that!

Question: why no paper or pens?

Creating an archive or record of the past and present for the future is a good idea. I know you said there's no paper --- but have you considered bark paper (such as was used in Mesoamerica?). Good stuff. You can cut it into pages or roll it up like a scroll of papyrus.

Painting a/o carving on cave walls also works. The NGM won't ever know it's there. Carving on wood is also quite viable (think Rongo-Rongo). Other media to consider are leaves (many Buddhist writings from South Asia are on books made from palm leaves). Vellum (made from animal hides) will also work, though they may not fare too well in a high humidity environment. Clay tablets will also work very well (Sumerian & Akkadian literature, anyone?). Carving on shells or bone or horn will also work.

Another medium to consider is knotted strings (qipu). These have the advantage of being worn decoratively (should the NGM stasi come sniffing around) and are also very portable if these people have to move deeper into the jungle (NGM start clearing the jungle, pretty soon, they're going to be right at the cave mouth!). Weaving their records into tapestries or cloth is also an idea worth exploring.


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## Twinss Risen (May 11, 2017)

To be honest, I chuckled with your response (the "Nasty Green Men" and "tree hugging")..
You are definitely right, but I really like the way you expressed it.

The problem is that I am taking part in a contest, and this contest requires for the story to be small; so I'll have to "forget" the basics (hunting and so on; things that the audience can understand if they put two and two together) but, my own mistake is that I really hadn't thought that deeply about it. Since I'm not going to mention it in the story, I foolishly forgot to consider these situations on my own.
Thank you.

And also, thanks for the extra suggestions. 
I have a much (much) clearer image in my mind now, in regards to this story.
I am also searching for more details (wikipedia, google search and such) for the methods all of the people here suggested. I'm also learning a bit about our ancestors' creative ways of keeping written records.


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## Rosemary Tea (Jun 3, 2021)

There's not really any such thing as a temple in a jungle. Temple ruins in a jungle, yes, but in those cases, when the temple was built, the jungle had been cleared so that the temple, and usually the surrounding town/city, could be built. There would have still been jungle outside the city limits, but when the temple was in use, it wasn't in the jungle, it was on urbanized land (however urbanized was defined at the time) that happened to be surrounded by jungle. The jungle grew back after the land was abandoned by humans.

I realize this story had a time limit on it and will have been long since written, but for anyone contemplating a similar premise, consider how much a part of the jungle your "jungle people" really are. It's one thing if they literally live in the jungle, not building any permanent structures, getting all their food and artifacts straight from the wild. It's another if they've cleared out part of the jungle to farm or build a town. In the second case, they're not so much living in the jungle as they are living with the jungle around them. Outsiders would have to pass through the jungle to reach them, but wouldn't literally be in the jungle anymore once they've arrived.

To build anything as permanent as a temple, they would have to be the second case. In the first case, they might put up temporary or semi-permanent structures to use for religious purposes (an example of that would be a sweat lodge), but they wouldn't have anything that really meets the definition of temple.

And the main purpose of building a temple never is, and never was, to leave a record for outsiders. Temples are built for the use of the people building them, and their communities, and their descendants. Any records kept there would be intended for the community keeping them. They would, therefore, only include what the record keepers feel it's important for the community to know. That wouldn't necessarily cover what future archaeologists would want to know.


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## Prince of Spires (Jun 4, 2021)

Rosemary Tea said:


> To build anything as permanent as a temple, they would have to be the second case. In the first case, they might put up temporary or semi-permanent structures to use for religious purposes (an example of that would be a sweat lodge), but they wouldn't have anything that really meets the definition of temple.


Though rare, this isn't always the case. There is some archeological evidence which suggests we started building temples before we started building towns. Search for Gobekli Tepe. It's a collection of temple structures in Turkey which were (probably) built by hunter-gatherers. Which might mean that we settled down and started farming because we were building temples and not the other way round. 

I realize that building on a mountain top in Turkey is not the same as building in a jungle (which requires still more skill), but sometimes humans behave in weirder ways than we can imagine as writers.


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## Rosemary Tea (Jun 4, 2021)

Prince of Spires said:


> Though rare, this isn't always the case. There is some archeological evidence which suggests we started building temples before we started building towns. Search for Gobekli Tepe. It's a collection of temple structures in Turkey which were (probably) built by hunter-gatherers. Which might mean that we settled down and started farming because we were building temples and not the other way round.
> 
> I realize that building on a mountain top in Turkey is not the same as building in a jungle (which requires still more skill), but sometimes humans behave in weirder ways than we can imagine as writers.


Still, if the temple was built in a jungle environment, the jungle around it would have to have been cleared to build it. Urbanization in that case might not have meant a town or city, just a temple, but it was still the earliest form of urbanization.


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