# So, are we tired of zombies yet?



## Sanctified (Oct 1, 2013)

Or do you think readers -- especially e-book readers looking for a genre fix -- still have an appetite for a good zombie tale?

The reason I'm asking is that I'd like to test the waters in the e-book market with something zeitgeisty in a blatant attempt to make a few bucks -- and to learn about selling and marketing e-books before I publish my other stuff.

I'd like to offer a novel or novella for a cheap price and see if the combination of the price and tight, professional writing is enough to propel an e-book up the sales charts.

So...still a market for zombies, or have they gone the way of the vampire by now?


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## Philip Overby (Oct 1, 2013)

If you want to blatantly make money writing, then write erotica. Of course there are serious erotica writers out there, but there are definitely those who just do it to make a quick buck. 

For me, I liked zombies first around 2000. I watched lots of Italian movies by folks like Lucio Fulci, who made unflinching horror movies that still hold up for me to this day. The Walking Dead made zombies cool again after them being kind of schlocky for a while. I don't think I've read a single book about zombies that I can remember (if Max Brooks's _Zombie Survival Guide_ counts, then OK). I've always found zombies to be more interesting in visual media myself. 

Maybe I'm not looking in the right places though.

Like anything we've discussed on these forums (elves, orcs, unicorns, vampires, zombies, etc.) a great writer can make even the most trite, overdone concepts awesome. Just because a story is about zombies doesn't mean I'm going to say "Ugh." However, if the blurb reads something like "John and Jane board themselves up inside their winter cabin to avoid zombies" then I'll pass. But if it says "When Jane learns her abusive husband has been cheating on her, she must decide if the zombies outside her window are a living nightmare or a blessing in disguise." If I read the second blurb, I'd say "Ohh...that actually sounds kind of cool." But in my estimation, a bad writer could still take that idea and make it crap. 

So...if you want to make a quick buck, I think zombies are still popular enough to do so. However, just because you write zombie fiction doesn't mean people are going to buy it. There still have to be standards. 

I don't want to be that hipster guy and say I liked zombies before they were cool, but yeah, I liked zombies before they were cool. I like The Walking Dead because it's good, not because it has zombies. I don't like bad zombie movies because, well, they're bad.


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## deilaitha (Oct 1, 2013)

Personally, I would caution against publishing something for the "blatant" purpose of making money.  You want to do this to learn about marketing and such--but I don't think that I would be able to successfully market something I was not really, truly passionate about.  

My concern would be that if you write something zeitgeisty (+100 pts, by the way) just for the sake of trying to sell it, that you might end up with a piece that you don't truly love and cherish.  In my experience, if you don't love what you are writing, you no longer do everything in your power to make it the best that it can be.  

Having worked in sales, I can tell you that marketing is way easier when you seriously believe in the quality of your product--when you yourself are proud to say, "I use/drink/love Product X."  

For me, the real question of this thread is not whether zombies are still popular.  The question is whether you think you can really pour your all into a piece about zombies.  If the answer is yes, I say proceed with your plan.


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## Philip Overby (Oct 1, 2013)

I'm not of the opinion that you _have_ to love every single aspect of what you write. I do freelance writing to make some money and I don't necessarily like the stuff I write when I do that. However, I work hard to make it good just the same. That approach can be taken towards certain kind of fiction if the author so chooses. I agree, it's probably not going to be the best possible work if the writer isn't passionate about it. But I don't think that's the OP's issue. 

For me, my fantasy work will always be nothing but my best work I feel, because I'm passionate about it. However, if I see a contest looking for zombie fiction, I like zombies enough to try my hand at it. Am I passionate about zombies? No, but I like them just fine.

So I believe each writer has their own set of standards that they have for different kinds of writing. It's important to have pride in your work, but if Sanctified wants to make money, I'm not going to begrudge anyone that.


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## Edankyn (Oct 1, 2013)

I can't answer for the industry, but I am tired of zombies by this point.


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## GeekDavid (Oct 1, 2013)

I'm gonna take a bit of a different tack here.

I do not believe in jumping on fads, be they zombie, sparkly vampire, or any other. I believe in writing quality stuff that I would want to buy.

Robin McKinley said, "Write what you want to read. The person you know best in this world is you. Listen to yourself. If you are excited by what you are writing, you have a much better chance of putting that excitement over to a reader."

Also consider: The Hobbit came out in 1937, and people are still buying it 76 years later. Will another zombie book still be selling in 76 years?


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## TWErvin2 (Oct 1, 2013)

Even if the readership for zombie tales is not longer widespread, I think it'll always remain a niche topic with a solid base of followers. And the better the story, the more of them it will attract and the better chance of breaking out beyond the core set of zombie fiction readers.


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## Sanctified (Oct 1, 2013)

Thanks for the thoughtful answers, ladies and gents!



Phil the Drill said:


> For me, I liked zombies first around 2000. I watched lots of Italian movies by folks like Lucio Fulci, who made unflinching horror movies that still hold up for me to this day. The Walking Dead made zombies cool again after them being kind of schlocky for a while. I don't think I've read a single book about zombies that I can remember (if Max Brooks's _Zombie Survival Guide_ counts, then OK). I've always found zombies to be more interesting in visual media myself.



Ah, Lucio Fulci. I still vividly remember that shark scene from Zombi 2, and not because of the shark or the zombie  

Speaking of the shark, I think The Walking Dead may have jumped it with last season's finale. We'll see.



deilaitha said:


> Personally, I would caution against publishing something for the "blatant" purpose of making money.  You want to do this to learn about marketing and such--but I don't think that I would be able to successfully market something I was not really, truly passionate about.
> 
> My concern would be that if you write something zeitgeisty (+100 pts, by the way) just for the sake of trying to sell it, that you might end up with a piece that you don't truly love and cherish.  In my experience, if you don't love what you are writing, you no longer do everything in your power to make it the best that it can be.



Yeah, this is a good point and I've considered it. For better or worse, it's the complete opposite for me. If I approach a project casually, I can knock it out on a deadline with minimal fuss, but those labors of love are the projects that bog me down. 

I want to make my mistakes with a less important, less labor-intensive project first, so that when I publish my labor of love I'll hopefully have a better understanding of the process and avoid common pitfalls.

And thanks for the +100!



TWErvin2 said:


> Even if the readership for zombie tales is not longer widespread, I think it'll always remain a niche topic with a solid base of followers. And the better the story, the more of them it will attract and the better chance of breaking out beyond the core set of zombie fiction readers.



Another good point. I suppose what I'm getting at is -- are zombies currently vampires at the height of the vampire craze, or is the zombie craze past its apex like vampires? In other words, True Blood was the hottest thing on TV for a few years and now it's doing very well, but it's not scorching...and yet (some) people are still making lots of cash selling vampire e-books.



GeekDavid said:


> Robin McKinley said, "Write what you want to read. The person you know best in this world is you. Listen to yourself. If you are excited by what you are writing, you have a much better chance of putting that excitement over to a reader."
> 
> Also consider: The Hobbit came out in 1937, and people are still buying it 76 years later. Will another zombie book still be selling in 76 years?



Always good advice, thank you. I'm with Phil on this, I won't be writing anything about teenagers huddled in a cabin to survive the ZA. I'm thinking more of a $100 million set piece from W. 35th through the subway to the shuttle, then into Grand Central where all hell breaks loose, people clinging desperately to Metro-North cars pulling out of the station, passengers willing to shoot people until the doors close, then a nail-biting ride into leafy Westchester County, hoping no one turns while sardined elbow-to-elbow...


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## Lord Ben (Oct 1, 2013)

There is nothing wrong with trying to figure out if people will buy it before sitting down to write something you hope to sell.   It's probably even wise.   

Yes, a good zombie story is still probably going to find a market.  I like good books in the genre, but I'm more into apocalyptic books (than have or don't have zombies) than I am a specific zombie type.   A Distant Eden was pretty good and not a zombie to be found, World War Z interested me more in an apocalyptic sense than the zombies themselves.


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## deilaitha (Oct 1, 2013)

Phil the Drill said:


> I'm not of the opinion that you _have_ to love every single aspect of what you write. I do freelance writing to make some money and I don't necessarily like the stuff I write when I do that. However, I work hard to make it good just the same. That approach can be taken towards certain kind of fiction if the author so chooses. I agree, it's probably not going to be the best possible work if the writer isn't passionate about it. But I don't think that's the OP's issue.



My thought wasn't that it is bad to write for the purpose of money.  My thought was that you are more likely to make good money off a work you poured a lot into. 



Phil the Drill said:


> For me, my fantasy work will always be nothing but my best work I feel, because I'm passionate about it. However, if I see a contest looking for zombie fiction, I like zombies enough to try my hand at it. Am I passionate about zombies? No, but I like them just fine.
> 
> So I believe each writer has their own set of standards that they have for different kinds of writing. It's important to have pride in your work, but if Sanctified wants to make money, I'm not going to begrudge anyone that.



I certainly don't begrudge the idea of wanting to make money.  I hope that was not how I came across.  Neither was it my intent to suggest any piece of writing that a writer is not passionate about is necessarily inferior.  My thoughts have always been that you can really tell when somebody loves what they do, and that makes me more likely to want to be a part of that by buying the product.


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## deilaitha (Oct 1, 2013)

Sanctified said:


> For better or worse, it's the complete opposite for me. If I approach a project casually, I can knock it out on a deadline with minimal fuss, but those labors of love are the projects that bog me down.
> 
> I want to make my mistakes with a less important, less labor-intensive project first, so that when I publish my labor of love I'll hopefully have a better understanding of the process and avoid common pitfalls.



I totally get this. 
I also am working on a project which is less emotionally important to me, wanting to publish that before I try to publish the darling I have been working on since I was 16.  I picked the topic based on a little idea I had floating around for a while.  

If zombies is what you want, I say go for it!  But my advice is that if zombies aren't what you want to write about, don't pick zombies just because they are popular.  

I admit I'm jealous.  I have a terrible time meeting deadlines no matter what I'm writing.  Good luck to you as you work on this project.


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## GeekDavid (Oct 1, 2013)

deilaitha said:


> If zombies is what you want, I say go for it!  But my advice is that if zombies aren't what you want to write about, don't pick zombies just because they are popular.



That's what I was trying to say earlier. Jumping on the latest fad does no one any good... not the author, not the reader.

However, if you can bring something new into a genre, or even more or less create a new genre from scratch, as Tolkien did, then by all means, go for it.

Above all, write what you want to write. Your writing will be so much better than if you feel you have to just because it's popular right now.


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## Devor (Oct 1, 2013)

One problem with following fads:  By the time you know it's a fad, you're probably too late to take a project from start-to-finish in time to be a part of it.  Zombies is one of those.  If you're starting a book now, by the time you've got it published even Walking Dead will be slowing down.

I believe Ben Clayborne was predicting Minotaurs are the new zombie.  I think he's probably right.  If I was following fads I would jump on that one.

But really, don't think about fads unless you're already successful, writing full time, and prolific enough not to make too much of it.


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## Philip Overby (Oct 2, 2013)

I think the point Sanctified made earlier is a great one:



> I want to make my mistakes with a less important, less labor-intensive project first, so that when I publish my labor of love I'll hopefully have a better understanding of the process and avoid common pitfalls.



One aspect of writing, is that if you're passionate about it and you love it, you're less likely to want to share it with the world. You want it to be perfect. Some may take years and years to finally put something out there because they're too afraid. So to me, this makes a lot of sense on one level. Build up your "writing chops" doing something you may not necessarily worry about if it succeeds or not. Of course still work hard on it, but if it's not your labor of love, then you won't feel as bad if it doesn't come out perfect.

However, on the other hand, if a writer spends many years perfecting one piece, that's their path. Success comes in many different forms. I don't believe in an absolutism when it comes to writing. There must be millions and millions of paths writers can take to get the level of success they want. Maybe becoming a best-selling author is one writer's goal, while just publishing enough to get one's name out there is enough for another.

For instance, maybe J.K. Rowling loved writing Harry Potter, but her crime fiction book was her true passion? It doesn't sound like Sanctified hates the zombie genre at all. If that was the case, I'd say, no, don't do it. I hate to say, but zombies aren't going away. They're cyclical. They may not be popular for a bit, then something awesome will come out and they'll be popular again. Same with vampires. I'm having deja vu as I write this. Surely I've wrote this somewhere before. 

Anyway, I say go for it. If zombies aren't popular by the time you release it, does it really matter? You still have a completed work out there in the world that hopefully turns out better than you imagined.


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## Ddruid (Oct 2, 2013)

I agree with many of the people on this thread about fads. They don't really matter. At least they shouldn't matter to the writer. A story can be riveting and moving whether it has zombies, vampires, werewolves or ponies. What the writer really should focus on is what purpose these popular monsters serve in the story. Why are they there? Just to provide some blood and gore or a chance for your protagonist to show off his hacking/shooting skills? Look beyond that and focus on the overarching themes of your story and figure out how zombies/vampires/whatever reinforce those themes.

An example I'd use is ZOM-B. It is a fast, rip-roaring read but essentially it deals with the story of a teen and his troubled relationship with his racist father. He knows his dad is an extremist and detests the ideals he believes in but is too afraid to stand up to him. Instead he pretends to agree with him and go along with whatever his dad says. But the boy begins to fear that by subduing himself and letting his father preach to him, he might slowly become the monster that deep inside he hates and knows his dad truly is This by itself could make a pretty solid story. But put it against a sudden zombie apocalypse and, instead of being drowned out in blood and gore (and trust me, there's plenty of blood and gore) it attains a horrifying and hard-hitting new sense of realism.

Like The Walking Dead or George Romero's original zombie movies (neither of which I have actually seen), ZOM-B leaves you with the impression that while the dead are bad, the living can be infinitely worse.    

I'm not sure if this is relevant to what you were actually asking. Still, I felt like I had to write it. Though I don't attach much (if any) importance to fads, I think the zombie fad is, at least currently, dead. (Funny, on second read that sentence looks like a horrible pun). So I'm assuming that you might be a bit interested in writing about zombies since you thought about that first instead of vampires or erotica. If you are then go ahead of it. Even though you just want to write this to test the waters of marketing who says you can't also use it as an opportunity to test new waters for your writing?


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## shangrila (Oct 2, 2013)

Devor said:


> I believe Ben Clayborne was predicting Minotaurs are the new zombie.  I think he's probably right.  If I was following fads I would jump on that one.


Off topic but...minotaurs?


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## deilaitha (Oct 2, 2013)

shangrila said:


> Off topic but...minotaurs?










_You got a problem with minotaurs, buddy?_


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## deilaitha (Oct 2, 2013)

Phil the Drill said:


> One aspect of writing, is that if you're passionate about it and you love it, you're less likely to want to share it with the world. You want it to be perfect. Some may take years and years to finally put something out there because they're too afraid. So to me, this makes a lot of sense on one level. Build up your "writing chops" doing something you may not necessarily worry about if it succeeds or not. Of course still work hard on it, but if it's not your labor of love, then you won't feel as bad if it doesn't come out perfect.
> 
> However, on the other hand, if a writer spends many years perfecting one piece, that's their path. Success comes in many different forms. I don't believe in an absolutism when it comes to writing. There must be millions and millions of paths writers can take to get the level of success they want. Maybe becoming a best-selling author is one writer's goal, while just publishing enough to get one's name out there is enough for another.
> 
> ...



As always, Phil makes several excellent points, especially that last paragraph.


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## Helen (Oct 2, 2013)

Sanctified said:


> Or do you think readers -- especially e-book readers looking for a genre fix -- still have an appetite for a good zombie tale?



They're making a _World War Z_ sequel - that tells you everything you need to know.


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## GeekDavid (Oct 2, 2013)

Helen said:


> They're making a _World War Z_ sequel - that tells you everything you need to know.



They also made _The Hangover Part III_. Hollywood is completely out of new ideas, so even a fad that's passed is fair game for a sequel.


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## Helen (Oct 2, 2013)

GeekDavid said:


> They also made _The Hangover Part III_. Hollywood is completely out of new ideas, so even a fad that's passed is fair game for a sequel.



Well, lets not argue about "Hollywood."

The point is it found an audience and earned good money. Which answers the OPs question.


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## GeekDavid (Oct 2, 2013)

Helen said:


> Well, lets not argue about "Hollywood."
> 
> The point is it found an audience and earned good money. Which answers the OPs question.



"Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results."


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## Helen (Oct 2, 2013)

GeekDavid said:


> "Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results."



I'm sure you've been successful at something and used that to justify (establish your credibility) for the next thing.


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## GeekDavid (Oct 2, 2013)

Helen said:


> I'm sure you've been successful at something and used that to justify (establish your credibility) for the next thing.



Not when it comes to fads, I haven't. I threw my pet rock away decades ago.


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## Helen (Oct 2, 2013)

GeekDavid said:


> Not when it comes to fads, I haven't. I threw my pet rock away decades ago.



If you're suggesting that zombie movies are a fad right now...because a _World War Z_ sequel is on its way, then all the more reason for the OP to get writing one now.


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## GeekDavid (Oct 2, 2013)

Helen said:


> If you're suggesting that zombie movies are a fad right now...because a _World War Z_ sequel is on its way, then all the more reason for the OP to get writing one now.



I've lived almost half a century. I've seen all sorts of movie and book fads. Musicals, gangster movies, spy movies, funny spooky movies (Ghostbusters), funny time travel movies (Back to the Future), street race movies (Cannonball Run, Smokey and the Bandit)... they come, and they go.

*Don't hop on fads.* Just write what you want to write. If that's zombies, fine, but don't write a zombie book just because the zombie fad is hot right now... there is absolutely no guarantee the fad will still be ongoing when your book hits the shelves. The WWZ sequel might be a tremendous flop if the zombie fad has faded by the time it comes out. It would hardly be the first such happening in Hollywood. (Smokey and the Bandit Part 3, anyone?)


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## Lord Ben (Oct 2, 2013)

I would even question whether or not the tag of fad applies to zombies.   They might be briefly more popular now than previously but they've been fairly popular as far back as I can remember.   Night of the Living Dead was out in 68, that's 45 years of zombie movies and books.

"Zombie" stuff is here to stay, it might ebb and flow like anything else but it's not going anywhere.


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## GeekDavid (Oct 2, 2013)

Lord Ben said:


> I would even question whether or not the tag of fad applies to zombies.   They might be briefly more popular now than previously but they've been fairly popular as far back as I can remember.   Night of the Living Dead was out in 68, that's 45 years of zombie movies and books.
> 
> "Zombie" stuff is here to stay, it might ebb and flow like anything else but it's not going anywhere.



Race movies have been around for years too... most recently the fad resurfaced with The Fast and the Furious. (And how many sequels since?)

Doesn't mean that anything that follows the fad will sell... see (again) Smokey and the Bandit, Part 3.


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## Devor (Oct 2, 2013)

There's two sides of a fad, and all of the attention is unfortunately given to what's published, with not enough attention given to what's produced.  I not too long ago took a very long look at various guidelines for submitting short stories, and some variation of "we will not look at zombie stories" appeared pretty often.  That's because they get too many of them.


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## shangrila (Oct 3, 2013)

deilaitha said:


> _You got a problem with minotaurs, buddy?_


Uh...of-of course not, my handsome headed friend.

It just struck me as a weird place to go with fads after werewolves/vampires and zombies.


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## Helen (Oct 4, 2013)

GeekDavid said:


> I've lived almost half a century. I've seen all sorts of movie and book fads. Musicals, gangster movies, spy movies, funny spooky movies (Ghostbusters), funny time travel movies (Back to the Future), street race movies (Cannonball Run, Smokey and the Bandit)... they come, and they go.



These aren't fads in the negative sense you mean. They were well written stories, which were successful. And then they became popular and people wanted more. Sequels were written because there was a market.




GeekDavid said:


> *Don't hop on fads.* Just write what you want to write.



Sure. But it's a product driven approach. And that's only half the story.

The bulk of writing work is market driven. Commissions, re/writes...are jobs given because someone sees a market for it.

You don't always have the opportunity to write what you want. Most of the time you're working on other peoples stories and ideas. 



GeekDavid said:


> *(Smokey and the Bandit Part 3, anyone?)*


*

It doesn't follow that a sequel didn't work because they were writing to market forces. There are a million reasons why a sequel may not work.

All in all, if the OP sees an opportunity writing zombie flicks, go for it. We're not making the judgement that the story will be better or worse because it's market driven.*


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## GeekDavid (Oct 4, 2013)

Helen, if you want to try to chase fads, go right ahead.

Me, I will write what I am inspired to write, fad or not.

We'll see who ends up more successful in the long run.


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## Sanctified (Oct 5, 2013)

Allow me to interject with something I read today, which is that Damon Lindelof was brought in to assess the World War Z script and outline changes to fix an apparently disjointed sequence near the end of the movie. (I believe it was the bit in Israel, though I could be wrong.)

Damon Lindelof. Damon "Let's take our helmets off on an unblemished alien world so we scientists can contaminate the whole **** thing" Lindelof." Damon "I'm a scientist who rails against skepticism" Lindelof. Damon "Let's introduce The Others who have book clubs, thereby ruining Lost in the process" Lindelof. Damon "Let's borrow Graham Hancock's disproved theories about Orion's Belt" Lindelof.

Damon "I wrote Prometheus" Lindelof.

What, was Uwe Boll unavailable?


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## DameiThiessen (Oct 5, 2013)

I, personally, never liked zombies and would be happy to see them go. The most I have liked them is through The Walking Dead, and that was because it provided the setting for highly emotional character drama under stressful survival situations. 

All the zombie media I have seen has been about a zombie apocalypse and the main characters are trying to survive by shooting them in the face. And that has never done anything for me because A) I can't stand when all them characters are hungry and dirty for long periods of time, B) I don't like wasteland settings, and C) I feel like it is more sci-fi than fantasy, and I prefer the latter. Using the zombie apocalypse setting for character motivation is going more the way of the damsel in distress story line, in that it becoming an overused, easy way of getting your characters to do something without needing to develop them in any way.

JUST MY OPINION. NOT RULES BY ANY MEANS.


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## GeekDavid (Oct 9, 2013)

Judging from the new TV series coming on soon, it looks like witches may be replacing zombies as the latest horror fad.

American Horror Story: Coven Oct 9 | Weds 10

Witches of East End - Episodes, Videos & Schedule - myLifetime.com

That's what happens when you try to follow a fad... unless you jump on it really early, you often find that your WIP hits the shelves after the fad is over.


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## Sanctified (Oct 9, 2013)

I'm going ahead with it anyway. There's really no drawback and I could use the practice while I do the remaining legwork on my main project, since the only way to get better is to keep writing and read as much as possible.

The American Horror Story link is broken but Google says it premieres tonight so I'll probably DVR it and give it a try after South Park. Anyone now if season 2 is a must watch before the new season? I watched the first season with Dylan McDermott and Alexandra Breckendridge and it was pretty damn good, but haven't gotten around to S2 yet.


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## GeekDavid (Oct 9, 2013)

Sanctified said:


> I'm going ahead with it anyway. There's really no drawback and I could use the practice while I do the remaining legwork on my main project, since the only way to get better is to keep writing and read as much as possible.
> 
> The American Horror Story link is broken but Google says it premieres tonight so I'll probably DVR it and give it a try after South Park. Anyone now if season 2 is a must watch before the new season? I watched the first season with Dylan McDermott and Alexandra Breckendridge and it was pretty damn good, but haven't gotten around to S2 yet.



I've always said, write whatever you *want* to write, not what you think the latest fad is. If you truly *want* to write zombies, I truly hope for the best for you.

As for the link, it was working when I posted it... dunno what Fox is doing to their website right now.


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## Jabrosky (Oct 9, 2013)

DameiThiessen said:


> All the zombie media I have seen has been about a zombie apocalypse and the main characters are trying to survive by shooting them in the face. And that has never done anything for me because A) I can't stand when all them characters are hungry and dirty for long periods of time, B) I don't like wasteland settings, and C) I feel like it is more sci-fi than fantasy, and I prefer the latter.


Here's a fun fact: the word "zombie" comes from a Central African Kikongo word _nzambi _meaning god or spirit. In the original African myths, zombies were basically dead people or spirits whom sorcerers brought back to life so they could have someone to mind-control for their own ends. This whole trope of the zombie apocalypse, in which zombies are mindless monsters staggering around eating everyone in sight, is a much more recent and Western development. As much as I dislike undead in general, I could stand to read a story which portrayed zombies in the original African sense rather than the usual post-apocalyptic stuff.

I don't mind post-apocalyptic settings as a whole, but I do find wasteland environments dreary and unattractive. If you're going to feature a post-apocalyptic city, I would prefer one overgrown with vegetation and teeming with wildlife than the stereotypical lifeless desert.


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## Helen (Oct 10, 2013)

Jabrosky said:


> Here's a fun fact: the word "zombie" comes from a Central African Kikongo word _nzambi _meaning god or spirit. In the original African myths, zombies were basically dead people or spirits whom sorcerers brought back to life so they could have someone to mind-control for their own ends.



Cool.



Jabrosky said:


> This whole trope of the zombie apocalypse, in which zombies are mindless monsters staggering around eating everyone in sight, is a much more recent and Western development.



Generally, zombies are a tool.

In _Night of the Living Dead_, they keep the characters contained in the house. What's important is what's happening to the characters.

It doesn't matter what does the containing - zombies, witches, vampires, whatever.

The story won't be about the zombies. It'll be about the theme / characters.


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## senseiseth (Oct 10, 2013)

Phil the Drill said:


> If you want to blatantly make money writing, then write erotica. Of course there are serious erotica writers out there, but there are definitely those who just do it to make a quick buck.
> 
> For me, I liked zombies first around 2000. I watched lots of Italian movies by folks like Lucio Fulci, who made unflinching horror movies that still hold up for me to this day. The Walking Dead made zombies cool again after them being kind of schlocky for a while. I don't think I've read a single book about zombies that I can remember (if Max Brooks's _Zombie Survival Guide_ counts, then OK). I've always found zombies to be more interesting in visual media myself.
> 
> ...



DUDE! I literally saw a article about these two writers who specialize in Dino/Women erotica. How ****ed up is that?! I mean never thought anyone would think it for themselves let alone reading about someone else going through it.


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## Addison (Oct 11, 2013)

Write what you want a write. There are always hot topics or genres and such in writing. It depends on what who wrote. There's always going to be a market for zombies, werewolves....candyland, scooby doo, flying pigs, damsels in distress, pirates whatever. Nothing goes out of style. Some things are just put on the front shelf now and then, but it's not for long and in no ways denotes other subjects.


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## Feo Takahari (Oct 11, 2013)

Totally late to the party, but . . .

If you're not sure whether you want to make something totally generic, why not make something mostly generic? Zombies with psychic powers. Zombies that are smart enough to use guns. Zombies that are actually fungi. (That one was pretty successful.) Or go the opposite route, using a new threat, but applying zombie tropes to it (say, a hive mind that compulsively spreads itself by dominating the minds of humans around it.) Give it a hook, and see what you catch with it.


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## Addison (Oct 11, 2013)

An activity that my writing club has found useful for prompt is we take colored cards and, on each color, we write something different. The cards can be anything; color, disease, food, fantasy race, horror race, planet, european country, plant, mood, age etc. Then the cards are thrown into a hat, mixed, and we each take five cards. Those cards are the subject of the story. They get pretty interesting, even better if we get the guts to read our story aloud. 

For example, today I picked; moon, pen, racoon, nunnery, in-laws, playful, chicken pox, chefs. 

I don't know what story you get from those, but what I got was a cross of Redwall, Ratatouille, and Mouse Hunt with a bit of Great Mouse Detective. I'm still going with it.  

But you, Feo, have a great point. Either twist the well known to your liking or make something completely new. It's your choice.


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## Sanctified (Oct 11, 2013)

Feo Takahari said:


> Totally late to the party, but . . .
> 
> If you're not sure whether you want to make something totally generic, why not make something mostly generic? Zombies with psychic powers. Zombies that are smart enough to use guns. Zombies that are actually fungi. (That one was pretty successful.) Or go the opposite route, using a new threat, but applying zombie tropes to it (say, a hive mind that compulsively spreads itself by dominating the minds of humans around it.) Give it a hook, and see what you catch with it.



Thanks for taking the time to reply. Like Helen wrote earlier in the thread, the zombies don't actually matter. It's all about the people and how they react, which is why in The Walking Dead for instance, the title refers to the characters, not the zombies.

IMO any innovation in the zombie genre happens with characters or plot. 

Speaking of, this latest zombie craze has spawned dozens of online communities and forums where people discuss what they'd do in the event of an apocalypse and how they'd prepare. It's ALWAYS about guns, and at the risk of sounding like a tool, half these people couldn't run a city block, much less endure real physical activity. That ties in to what the comedian Bill Burr said -- these people think they're stockpiling for themselves, when in reality they're just stockpiling for the people who are going to steal it from them later.

If I'm going to go meta, I'm going to do a sequence about Mr. Zombie Preparedness and how he's the first to go.


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## Feo Takahari (Oct 11, 2013)

Sanctified said:


> If I'm going to go meta, I'm going to do a sequence about Mr. Zombie Preparedness and how he's the first to go.



Allow me to link possibly the best comic Scythemantis has ever done (5 parts, disturbing content warning.)


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## Saigonnus (Oct 11, 2013)

I have personally never really cared for zombies (or skeletons for that matter), even going back to the days of D&D campaigns with my friends after school. I always found them too simplistic and basic, without any of the redeeming qualities that are often present in the other undead creatures. For example, vampires often have a twisted sense of romantism, or are picky about their choice of prey; morality if you will. Ghosts, Ghouls, Ghasts and Wights often remember their former lives, so have a lingering regard for humanity and maybe even a limited intelligence, even if they are under orders from the dark wizard. Zombies (in most of the manifestations i've ever seen) are driven by is an insatiable hunger and brainless in that pursuit, so with the right weapons in the hands of the heroes become little more than fodder or experience points and any villain worth his salt would never stoop to using something so stupid to do his dirty work.

"Oh good, my undead hordes are in pursuit of the paladin of the North... what's this? he ran downstream and crossed the bridge. My minions aren't following? they are standing and milling about on the shore! Gosh darn it, should have hired the goblins for this."


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## GeekDavid (Oct 11, 2013)

Saigonnus said:


> Zombies (in most of the manifestations i've ever seen) are driven by is an insatiable hunger and brainless in that pursuit, so with the right weapons in the hands of the heroes become little more than fodder or experience points and any villain worth his salt would never stoop to using something so stupid to do his dirty work.
> 
> "Oh good, my undead hordes are in pursuit of the paladin of the North... what's this? he ran downstream and crossed the bridge. My minions aren't following? they are standing and milling about on the shore! Gosh darn it, should have hired the goblins for this."



Maybe all the heroes need to do is shout "_cogito, ergo sum!_" at the zombies.


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## Saigonnus (Oct 11, 2013)

Maybe... I personally haven't used zombies or undead in general for any of my works thus far, but I can guarantee if I do, they won't be mindlessly shuffling around in search for brains. Perhaps they will be the product of a dark ritual that allows them to keep their intelligence and any skills they had in life, but simply don't "evolves" further or age/die since they are basically dead already. I could imagine a special elite force of assassins trained for 30 years and deliberately killed to be turned into undead killers. They don't stop until you literally dismember them.


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## Sanctified (Oct 11, 2013)

Feo Takahari said:


> Allow me to link possibly the best comic Scythemantis has ever done (5 parts, disturbing content warning.)



Haha that comic pretty much nailed it, thanks for the link.


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