# Need formatting tips



## BWFoster78 (Aug 22, 2013)

I'm working on my final draft in Word.  Any formatting tips to help make my eventual conversion to an ebook easier?

I've been told that tabs make the conversion process harder, so I used the autoindent feature.

Anything else I should do?  Should I set the font or size a certain way now?  Should I full justify?

I'd rather do everything I can now to make my conversion job easier later.

Thanks!

Brian


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## Steerpike (Aug 22, 2013)

I don't know how you do the formatting, but I just write the Word doc as normal, save it as an HTML file, and then modify the HTML directly. You can save as filtered or unfiltered, I think, to get rid of a lot of extraneous tags early on. Then, if you use a nice text editor designed for programmers (like the free jEdit program) you can very easily strip out other tags you don't want and add in ones you need to get the formatting just right.


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## Butterfly (Aug 22, 2013)

If the formatting that you already have is causing problems on your final version you can clear all formatting in word (2007).

Highlight the whole text (ctrl+a)

Where you have your style bar - the bit that displays normal, no spacing, Heading1, Heading 2 in thumbnails... is an expander arrow. Select it and at the bottom is the option to clear all formatting. It will take away the italics, bolds, tabs, and justified text and leave you with the text in its basic font.


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## Steerpike (Aug 22, 2013)

Also, Brian, I have an e-Ink Kindle, a color Kindle, a Kobo Reader (e-ink), and a Nexus 7 with the B&N app, a third-party reader, and the Kindle app on it. If you want me to check the final product against any of those devices, let me know. I'd be happy to do it.


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## BWFoster78 (Aug 22, 2013)

Steerpike said:


> Also, Brian, I have an e-Ink Kindle, a color Kindle, a Kobo Reader (e-ink), and a Nexus 7 with the B&N app, a third-party reader, and the Kindle app on it. If you want me to check the final product against any of those devices, let me know. I'd be happy to do it.



Thanks for that offer!  I'm months away, but I'll forward to you when it's ready.


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## BWFoster78 (Aug 22, 2013)

Butterfly said:


> If the formatting that you already have is causing problems on your final version you can clear all formatting in word (2007).
> 
> Highlight the whole text (ctrl+a)
> 
> Where you have your style bar - the bit that displays normal, no spacing, Heading1, Heading 2 in thumbnails... is an expander arrow. Select it and at the bottom is the option to clear all formatting. It will take away the italics, bolds, tabs, and justified text and leave you with the text in its basic font.



I'm confused.  Why would I want or need to do this?  I was hoping to have italics, etc. be converted to the ebook format.


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## Butterfly (Aug 22, 2013)

Well, it could help for the entire work. I've heard transferring directly from word to Kindle imports some things that can cause problems in display of the formatting. I don't know exactly what though and can't remember the source. Maybe its' even been resolved now.


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## Steerpike (Aug 22, 2013)

Butterfly said:


> Well, it could help for the entire work. I've heard transferring directly from word to Kindle imports some things that can cause problems in display of the formatting. I don't know exactly what though and can't remember the source. Maybe its' even been resolved now.



It can (or used to anyway), which is why it is best to save as an HTML file and then open the document in an editor. You can scan through the doc and get rid of any crap that you don't want in there. Also produces a more lean document at the end of the day, and I think that helps with the automatic conversions done when you upload.


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## Graylorne (Aug 22, 2013)

I use a pre-made document, with a style for the body and a header 1 style for the chapter headers. How to make these up is explained in the CreateSpace FAQ and the Smashwords one. 

Also, I write in Word 97-2003 (2007 will give problems with conversion).

I suggest reading both FAQs, as they give a quite clear explanation of what to do, also for your Table of Contents, etc.


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## BWFoster78 (Aug 22, 2013)

Okay, reading through FAQs and tips now.  What is my trim size?  (Meaning what trim size should I use rather than a definition).  My book is 115000 words.

Thanks!


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## C Hollis (Aug 22, 2013)

I consistently utilized a couple of resources for getting my manuscripts ready for conversion.

David Dalglish has a blog post that covers it pretty well.

And Smashwords has a freebie you can download that walks you through the process to prepare the manuscript for them, but a large portion of it is applicable for Kindle Direct also.


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## BWFoster78 (Aug 22, 2013)

C Hollis said:


> I consistently utilized a couple of resources for getting my manuscripts ready for conversion.
> 
> David Dalglish has a blog post that covers it pretty well.
> 
> And Smashwords has a freebie you can download that walks you through the process to prepare the manuscript for them, but a large portion of it is applicable for Kindle Direct also.



Wow, that link was incredibly useful!  Thanks a bunch!


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## Kevin O. McLaughlin (Aug 23, 2013)

The Smashwords Style Guide recommended above is usually a good first place to start. If your manuscript is formatted to survive the Smashwords Meatgrinder, it can likely do ok in any other auto-conversion system. Learn those rules of best practice, and you're in good shape.


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## BWFoster78 (Aug 23, 2013)

Kevin O. McLaughlin said:


> The Smashwords Style Guide recommended above is usually a good first place to start. If your manuscript is formatted to survive the Smashwords Meatgrinder, it can likely do ok in any other auto-conversion system. Learn those rules of best practice, and you're in good shape.



I went through it and got a lot of useful data.

One question remains though that I haven't researched yet: a couple of sources tell me to set my Word paper size to the size my book is going to be (or at least that I need to know it in order to set my margins properly).  How do I determine that size?


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## C Hollis (Aug 23, 2013)

I'm assuming you're talking about the hard copy.

Just go to wherever you intend to create the hard copy and see what sizes they offer, then you can set up your page in Word to match that size.  Most of the print-on-demand places will have a quick guide on how to format the manuscript.  Just remember, while e-book formatting is not what you see is what you get, formatting for hard copy is; so, if it looks like a college term paper on screen, it'll look like that in print.

Of course, you'll want to do that to a different copy of your manuscript than the one you put all the work into converting for e-publishing.


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## Kevin O. McLaughlin (Aug 24, 2013)

What Hollis said. When formatting a layout for printed books, you lay out the page to the size the final page will be when printed.

For ebooks, page size is irrelevant. Ebook text reflows, so it will be read on everything from 50" TV screens to 3" cell phone screens. Just leave ebook manuscripts in the default page size in your word processor, and it will work fine.


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## BWFoster78 (Aug 24, 2013)

Kevin O. McLaughlin said:


> What Hollis said. When formatting a layout for printed books, you lay out the page to the size the final page will be when printed.
> 
> For ebooks, page size is irrelevant. Ebook text reflows, so it will be read on everything from 50" TV screens to 3" cell phone screens. Just leave ebook manuscripts in the default page size in your word processor, and it will work fine.



I'm planning on doing POD as well as the ebook.  Are there any guidelines as to how big you should make your book?


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## Graylorne (Aug 24, 2013)

As long as you keep to the Industry Standard, you should be all right. I have mine in 6 x 9 inches. CreateSpace gives a complete list of available sizes.
https://www.createspace.com/Products/Book/


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## BWFoster78 (Aug 24, 2013)

Graylorne said:


> As long as you keep to the Industry Standard, you should be all right. I have mine in 6 x 9 inches. CreateSpace gives a complete list of available sizes.
> https://www.createspace.com/Products/Book/



Okay, it looks like page count is important as the sizes list a maximum, so I'll want to make sure that, if I'm going to exceed the count at one size, I go up to the next.  Are there other considerations when determining the size?


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## Graylorne (Aug 25, 2013)

You could check what is most used. I was told 6 x 9 was a common size, but you could compare sizes in a bookstore.

Think of the next book. Use a size that fits all.

Of course, you can change the trim size later on, but that means changing the lay-out of your cover as well.


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## BWFoster78 (Sep 9, 2013)

Okay, I got a lot of the general stuff out of the way with the links y'all referred me to.  A few specific questions (I realize that the answers to these questions are quite subjective):

1. Most books have "Chapter Whatever" nearer the middle than the top.  How many enters do you feel is appropriate to get it where you want it?

2. I've noticed a lot of ebooks separate scene by using blank lines.  I don't like this because that blank line oft falls at the bottom of the page where it's unnoticeable.  Anyone feel that the 3 asterisks are unprofessional in any way?

3. I've also noticed that most books do not indent the first line after a new scene and the one that starts a chapter.  Any reason not to do it that way?

Thanks.

Brian


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## Svrtnsse (Sep 9, 2013)

1. There may be a standard for this, but I don't believe it is necessary as long as the blank space is the same across all chapters of your book. It doesn't have to be the same as in other books - the reader will get used to it soon enough.

2. I like that there's a bit of a blank after a scene. Usually if it falls at the bottom of a page there's a kind of scene break of some sort (the three asterisks) to indicate a scene ends and then I'm fine with it. If there were no indication of the break I'd find it annoying.

3. Can't think of any.


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## Steerpike (Sep 9, 2013)

For ebooks, I've read not to mine chapters titles or other text down with more than four hard returns, as it can make things look screwy on the readers. I prefer the blank line for scene shifts. As for indentations, I indent them both.


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## Butterfly (Sep 9, 2013)

It seems that the non-indented-first-line is more widespread than an indented-first-line. My logic is that the first paragraph is that, the first paragraph,  and all the following paragraphs are new paragraphs and the the indentation is used to mark it as new, so is technically it's not needed in the first paragraph, as it's not a new paragraph.

Personally I prefer the non-indented-first paragraph.

One more tip... I think you may need to untick the 'widow and orphan' box in word.


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## Nihal (Sep 9, 2013)

I don't like plain blank spaces as well, I like asterisms better. I also like flourished section breaks, heh, but I don't think it's a good idea for ebooks.

It's funny what you said about not indenting after a scene break, I didn't notice it before. Now, checking my books, some do this, some don't, using asterisms or not.

Unless it's some rule we missed, I would keep indenting if asterisms are being used, for I see no gain in doing otherwise. But if I would be using blank spaces, the lack of indenting will help to identify the scene transition.


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## Caged Maiden (Sep 9, 2013)

According to several "To submit your professional work to us..." sites, a single asterisk is very professional to differentiate scenes, (or the empty line), whereas two of those sources specifically asked to not do three.  Weird, I WAS doing three before, because I recall seeing it in books.. but I've since, adopted the single asterisk... just in case.


Also, to get the titles into the middle of the page, I typically leave five spaces.  I learned this on several "How to format your novel to submit" sites too.  The title page, the chapter in the middle... it was all very interesting stuff I hadn't considered.  But after a couple days of research, I realized there were some apparent industry standards, because they all ask for the same things.  So yea, it's supposed to be (and I use) five blank lines, double-spaced for submission, but I don't know whether you're double-spacing for the text of the book.


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## BWFoster78 (Sep 9, 2013)

OK, to summarize:

1. Steerpike says no more than 4 returns while Caged Maiden says the standard is 5.  The 5, however, seems to be a standard for submitting manuscripts.  Since I'm working on a finished product to be self published, maybe 4 makes sense?

2. I like some form of actual scene break rather than just a line.  Even with the lack of indentation, I often miss it with just the spacing.  Most ebooks seem to go with just the space, though, so it's hard to figure what the standard is if you want to use one.  I think I've seen the three asterisks (straight instead of in the triangle formation) more commonly than a single one.  I'm still leaning toward that method.

3. I have no idea where the "rule" came from.  A couple of people have pointed out that I should be doing it, but, at the time, I didn't ask why.  I do notice that it seems to be very common practice.


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