# Salt vs Silver



## Drakevarg (Apr 2, 2016)

Been inwardly debating with myself about what I should use as the basic currency of the realm in my current project. Since gold is cliched, personally unappealing, and simply lacks much practical use, I figured I'd look into more practical alternatives. The two most obvious ones that came to mind were salt or silver.

Now, this project is in fact a game and not prose, but I don't want that factor to become too much of a distraction since I'm fully aware that most posters here think from a novelist's viewpoint. Suffice to say that things like the need to physically transport it and potential concerns of open-ended narrative are highlighted concerns but in the end it still boils down to how effective it comes across in the story.

Anyway, the surrounding situation:

The time is set roughly 200 years after human civilization was essentially reset by a volcanic cataclysm that wiped out about 99% of the population. The global headcount is somewhere in the neighborhood of 100,000. The story is focused on a small island where three factions vie for control - a nomadic tribe, a vigilante cult, and a band of pirates. Since the PC will have the option of throwing their lot in with any of them, for practical reasons any currency would need to have universal appeal.

Fortunately, both salt and silver have functional application - both are known for their effectiveness against spirits and have importance in various rituals. That said, there are pros and cons for both.

Salt, on top of the supernatural application, is simply a practical commodity. It's a crucial survival resource and can be used to preserve foodstuffs and so forth. This gives it additional appeal in a post-apocalyptic scenario such as the story's setting. On the downside, salt is also heavy and can be produced by anyone with access to brine, which makes it a poor currency for valuable commodities.

Silver, on the other hand, has little practical function outside of the arcane or alchemical but as a precious metal is easy to store, transport, and divide. Its comparative rarity also enhances its usefulness as a currency, since it's significantly harder to produce and might not even be obtainable on a small island without import.

Any thoughts? I'm open to other alternatives as well but those are my thoughts on the issue. Thinking on it from a Doylist standpoint, salt has appeal simply from departure from fantasy adventure cliches, but sometimes cliches exist for good reason - because they just make more practical sense, and the sheer bloated pricetags of valuables on a salt-based currency seems balk-worthy. Anyway, please give your thoughts and feel free to offer up historical counterpoints or other factors I might not have thought of.


----------



## Vaporo (Apr 2, 2016)

If the island is oceanic (i.e surrounded by brine) then I would think that the sheer abunance of salt would prohibit its use as regular currency. Just scoop some seawater into a shallow pan, put it out in the sun, and let nature do its thing. If the island is in the middle of a lake, salt as currency might be more plausible. There could also be a trade between any landlocked and shore peoples for salt. Salt may be used as currency by those who are landlocked, as to them salt is valuable, while people on the shore use silver or some other valuable commodity for currency.

You also mention that you have pirates. Perhaps the pirates themselves produce salt and want to make sure that they have the monopoly, so they raid anyone who tries to set up a salt production system on the shore. Since salt is difficult and dangerous to obtain by anything but trade with the pirates, they would be able to set the price of salt almost as high as they want. Plus, people have to consume salt to some degree. We don't actually need to eat that much of it, little enough that we normally get our daily dosage just from other foods we eat, but if it's used in food preservation and magic then it ensures that there is always at least some demand for salt.

As for silver currency, if it's only been 200 years since the collapse of civilization there may still be enough silver hanging around that they don't need to mine for it, thus making it rare and valuable, but still accessible.

Both could also be used as currency simultaneously. Only the highest-value ancient coins were made of gold, and lower-value ones would be made of copper and silver, maybe even iron. Salt could be the low-value currency, used by most people for most trades, and silver could be the high-value currency, used for richer people large trades.


----------



## Drakevarg (Apr 2, 2016)

Vaporo said:


> If the island is oceanic (i.e surrounded by brine) then I would think that the sheer abunance of salt would prohibit its use as regular currency. Just scoop some seawater into a shallow pan, put it out in the sun, and let nature do its thing. If the island is in the middle of a lake, salt as currency might be more plausible. There could also be a trade between any landlocked and shore peoples for salt. Salt may be used as currency by those who are landlocked, as to them salt is valuable, while people on the shore use silver or some other valuable commodity for currency.



The island is indeed oceanic, which is one of the reasons why I didn't think salt would work great. It's not a very large island - only about 50 miles across with most of its population near the shore - so I doubt you could go anywhere on the island that would make it incredibly difficult to get ahold of the stuff.



> You also mention that you have pirates. Perhaps the pirates themselves produce salt and want to make sure that they have the monopoly, so they raid anyone who tries to set up a salt production system on the shore. Since salt is difficult and dangerous to obtain by anything but trade with the pirates, they would be able to set the price of salt almost as high as they want. Plus, people have to consume salt to some degree. We don't actually need to eat that much of it, little enough that we normally get our daily dosage just from other foods we eat, but if it's used in food preservation and magic then it ensures that there is always at least some demand for salt.



Not an insensible idea, but that said with such a minimal population it'd be hard to maintain anything resembling a monopoly on the production since as you pointed out, anybody near a beach with a saucepan can pull it off.



> As for silver currency, if it's only been 200 years since the collapse of civilization there may still be enough silver hanging around that they don't need to mine for it, thus making it rare and valuable, but still accessible.



Makes sense. Would offer more encouragement to try hunting down treasure, since there isn't much new silver being dug up giving old relics a significantly increased value.



> Both could also be used as currency simultaneously. Only the highest-value ancient coins were made of gold, and lower-value ones would be made of copper and silver, maybe even iron. Salt could be the low-value currency, used by most people for most trades, and silver could be the high-value currency, used for richer people large trades.



Also good, especially since most trade still usually involves simple things like pelts, textiles, food and so forth. Not everybody is a professional badass with a demand for suits of armor and all.

(In terms of game functionality then, I think it might make sense for salt to be used as the "basic currency" with silver being used as high-value barter items. Since I'm building this game as a total conversion with Morrowind's engine, a good parallel would be that salt takes the place of gold while silver is treated more like the Dwemer coins found in the base game.)


----------



## Drakevarg (Apr 2, 2016)

It occurs to me that fresh water might also work, since the island is mostly desert and it's in the middle of the ocean. Much like salt it's not especially rare, but it does have universal demand. Perhaps moreso, especially in the eyes of the audience.


----------



## K.S. Crooks (Apr 3, 2016)

If a person has salt in their pocket and it rains the salt will dissolve. Salt may be better as a high value commodity to trade, like gold or fresh water, but silver used as a currency. To get salt all someone needs to do is collect ocean water in a jar, hang a string inside and boil and cool the water or let the water evaporate. As the water becomes more concentrated the salt will form a crystal on the string.

Alternatives could be sea shells (snails, oysters, clams, conches), Shark teeth, wood coins (being on an island would make trees a special commodity)
Hope this sparks a few ideas.


----------



## Hyperion (Apr 4, 2016)

It seems that the more a currency has practical value, whether mundane or arcane, the more it becomes a commodity to be bartered than a currency to be traded. Would it be possible to have a barter system with multiple commodities, each group having a special affinity towards one or two? For example, the nomadic population would probably place greater emphasis on fresh water and greens, while the pirates would tend toward silver and black powder.  

If that isn't desirable, I like the idea of fresh water despite its weight and volume.  The difficulties of storing potable water for lengths of time could be used to add depth to long term-strategy, and a greater emphasis can be placed on one's physical location on the board.  You could even give each faction a set amount of fresh water intake each turn, allowing the difference in currency intake to balance out any inequalities that arise due to tribal variances.  If the pirates have the biggest guns, do the vigilantes get the most water?

You mentioned that this is a post-volcanic-cataclysm world.  What was the effect on the plant life in the explosion? Could greenery, especially the edible and herbal kinds, have a part to play in commerce?

Here's a short article on some unusual currencies if you want to really go outside the box. My favourite is definitely the Rai Stone form of currency. 

Good luck with your game!


----------



## Drakevarg (Apr 4, 2016)

Hyperion said:


> It seems that the more a currency has practical value, whether mundane or arcane, the more it becomes a commodity to be bartered than a currency to be traded. Would it be possible to have a barter system with multiple commodities, each group having a special affinity towards one or two? For example, the nomadic population would probably place greater emphasis on fresh water and greens, while the pirates would tend toward silver and black powder.



The game is set before gunpowder came into common usage, in fact the pirate faction in question work for the guy who invented the stuff and part of their objective on the island is to set up a production industry for it.

Anyway, a currency with no practical value simply can't exist without a central authority giving it value. In an a survival situation, abstract value is no value at all. Reason I suggested salt or silver as a currency as opposed to a commodity is because everyone has a potential use for it but not necessary an active intent to use it, compared to something like food - nobody buys a sandwich without the intent to eat that sandwich, but with something like water, salt or silver, some of it you'll use but you also always want a bit extra in case of an emergency or - as is relevant here - in case someone else needs it in exchange for something you more immediately need. Hence, currency.



> If that isn't desirable, I like the idea of fresh water despite its weight and volume.  The difficulties of storing potable water for lengths of time could be used to add depth to long term-strategy, and a greater emphasis can be placed on one's physical location on the board.  You could even give each faction a set amount of fresh water intake each turn, allowing the difference in currency intake to balance out any inequalities that arise due to tribal variances.  If the pirates have the biggest guns, do the vigilantes get the most water?



This is an RPG, not a turn-based strategy game. There isn't going to be any sort of simulated economy programmed into the background.



> You mentioned that this is a post-volcanic-cataclysm world.  What was the effect on the plant life in the explosion? Could greenery, especially the edible and herbal kinds, have a part to play in commerce?



It's been 220 years since the event, so while forests haven't recovered much but seasonal plants and grasslands and the like aren't all that rare outside of especially desert-like regions.


----------



## Terry Greer (Apr 6, 2016)

In an oceanic setting salt is pretty much useless and valueless. If you need salt - drink a bit of seawater - there's absolutely no need to crystalise it. in fact Most people get all the salt they need in their food (salt concentrations in tissues are roughly the same as the ocean). Where it falls down (and why it becomes valuable) is in desert areas or inland areas where there is no access to saltwater AND where salt loss through sweating is excessive.
It's worth pointing out that Ghandi marched to the coast and made his own salt in India as a protest at the British putting a tax on it and trying to develop a monopoly.  

One of the best post apocalyptic books out there is Walter m miller's Earth Abides - in that the new 'primitive' civilization growing up around the story's protagonist use ordinary coins (not silver or gold) beaten and reshaped as arrowheads - they become a currency  because of what they are - not because of any artificial monetry value. In world where the population is only about 100,000 and which has no planned economy (and at that size it would be difficult to have one) barter is everything and currency is merely any form that has rarity.


----------



## Drakevarg (Apr 6, 2016)

Terry Greer said:


> In an oceanic setting salt is pretty much useless and valueless. If you need salt - drink a bit of seawater - there's absolutely no need to crystalise it. in fact Most people get all the salt they need in their food (salt concentrations in tissues are roughly the same as the ocean). Where it falls down (and why it becomes valuable) is in desert areas or inland areas where there is no access to saltwater AND where salt loss through sweating is excessive.
> It's worth pointing out that Ghandi marched to the coast and made his own salt in India as a protest at the British putting a tax on it and trying to develop a monopoly.



This is a fair point. Nobody is going to carry around extra stores of salt if there's a functionally infinite supply of it within a days walk of pretty much any habitable portion of the island.



> One of the best post apocalyptic books out there is Walter m miller's Earth Abides - in that the new 'primitive' civilization growing up around the story's protagonist use ordinary coins (not silver or gold) beaten and reshaped as arrowheads - they become a currency  because of what they are - not because of any artificial monetry value. In world where the population is only about 100,000 and which has no planned economy (and at that size it would be difficult to have one) barter is everything and currency is merely any form that has rarity.



That's pretty much the approach I'm trying to follow here. One of the most common forms of this idea is the trope of bullets becoming postapocalyptic currency. Without a controlling force to impose value on something, a currency would be something with both rarity and universal usefulness. Hence silver - it's rare, and has use, since spirits are very much a thing and while they're not exactly a daily concern people still like to have a bit of protection.


----------



## Laurence (Apr 6, 2016)

If gold is clichÃ© then so is silver and salt in my opinion. Neither terribly useful 200 years after a world reboot. 

If you have a population of only 100,000 then I wouldn't think a currency (a symbolic one, like our own) would be terribly important. People could, for the most part, trade their goods directly. 

I would recommend a series of common items. They should ideally be light and durable such as arrow heads, waterproofing lanolin, seeds. Maybe I'm picturing your race as too primitive.


----------



## Drakevarg (Apr 6, 2016)

Laurence said:


> If gold is clichÃ© then so is silver and salt in my opinion. Neither terribly useful 200 years after a world reboot.



Gold is pretty strictly a decorative material prior to modern needs like electrical components. Salt, meanwhile, is a crucial survival resource (albeit a plentiful one) and silver has antimicrobial properties. Plus both have supernatural uses, which can be considered pretty important when needing to keep angry spirits at bay is a legitimate concern.



> If you have a population of only 100,000 then I wouldn't think a currency (a symbolic one, like our own) would be terribly important. People could, for the most part, trade their goods directly.



Not referring to a symbolic one in any sense, as I've emphasized several times already - with no controlling authority to enforce value, abstract currencies simply don't work. When I say "currency" I basically am thinking of more like a universal fallback option. Something of universal value to facilitate trade when Party A has something Party B wants, but not vice-versa. Maybe Party A is a farmer and Party B is a blacksmith, but Party A is fine for tools right now. Well, then Party B offer some of their [currency], because everybody wants a supply of [currency] on hand.

In a standard postapocalyptic story, [currency] would often be bullets. It could also be fresh water, or anything else everyone needs at least occasionally.



> I would recommend a series of common items. They should ideally be light and durable such as arrow heads, waterproofing lanolin, seeds. Maybe I'm picturing your race as too primitive.



I'd estimate tech levels as vaguely 9th century, with varying degrees of anachronism. But the trick is a) universal applicability (not everyone is an archer so not everyone needs arrowheads), and b) the realistic limitations of making a game, since I can't exactly program in 17 parallel currencies unless I just had a single currency listed as "grams worth of useful knickknacks" or something.


----------



## Nomadica (May 15, 2016)

I know this thread is a little old but what about oils and resin? Think of how the Bible depicted the value of some oils. Many where also medicinal like frankincense. Pearls could also work for an island.


----------



## Zadocfish (May 15, 2016)

Nomadica definitely has a point.  Oil, that is, a resource for light and heat and making food, is also valuable enough to be useful for currency.  Anything that many people will often or always need will make a good currency.


----------



## WazpByte (Jun 4, 2016)

I'd think that since it's an Island, it makes little sense to use salt as currency, simply because of it's abundance in rocks, and of course, the ocean itself. Although it is a very intresting idea to use it, I simply think Silver'll be more practical, as it's been used by pretty much every civilization in history.


----------



## bdcharles (Jun 8, 2016)

I'm in a similar situation. It dawned on me - so much so that I just _had _to tweet about it - that currency, and coin, have a couple of aspects to them. One is their composition; the material they are made from. That would have to be something accessible, though not too accessible, in the area, which means your geography has to match up. Then there's the naming, which will feed into the history of your land. Whatever commodities or other tradeables proliferated in your world's backstory might feed into what the contemporary money is called. Technology might also be a factor in what is worth what.

Of course, failing that there is always bartering which is just a matter of seeing what's scarce, what people need versus what they have. For me, I have banks and stuff so I needed some fiat currency and settled on Duchy Silverhorns. I think it sounds rather pretty! My land is a duchy (recently downgraded from a kingdom for reasons of "originality") and it is - was - quite peaceful so I gave it some elegant~ish, pastoral sounding denomination. Got to think up some other units though...

And if that doesn't work, there's always handwavium.


----------



## Ankari (Jun 9, 2016)

currency has a boundary similar to nations, except that they are confined by commonly ascribed value instead of political control. A nation or group of nations may value salt over precious metals and will trade away their stockpile of shiny metals for salt. Oddly, the nations or group of nations who tend to be rich in salt also are poor in those shiny metals.

As economies become more intertwined, a standard currency is settled upon for ease of transaction. This isn't to say the salt will lose value, just that it's easier to use a common currency to ensure fair trade.

A specialized currency would reflect on the scope of your setting. If salt or silver is more commonly used as currency, that suggests they haven't opened up to the wider world. This is an aspect of worldbuilding that will have subtle repercussions and add a different flavor to your world.


----------



## Swordfry (Jun 12, 2016)

I had an idea similar to this. Except instead of salt, it was a natural salt-like mineral made from sea salt and the remains of sea shells. It has medicinal value for minor healing, nutrition, ritualistic value ranging from use in ceremonies to rubbing some on your skin or weapon before battle for luck. But then I realized that, like salt, it might be a bit too common as one of my two main races is a coastal dwelling one that has relatively easy access to it.

But then there has been talk of barter, which I always thought was just made up. Even if there are two races with one or two resources that the other cannot obtain ( ex:coastal race has pearls and this mineral, forest dwelling race has herbs and stronger wood for lumber) wouldn't it get too complicated with just barter?


Also, for the op: Have you considered making a simple crafting system to craft currency? Like you can find a handful of common and uncommon materials throughout the game, and you would craft the currency and take it into town to trade. You could also add in a skill or two that increases proficiency in crafting, and maybe even material gathering. Might be a tad too complicated, but worth thinking on.


----------

