# Finding a Literary Agent



## Philip Overby (Jan 30, 2013)

I'm closing in on finishing my first real book, hoping to edit it and submit it out to literary agents and publishers.  Problem is, I'm not sure where to look for good agents that represent authors in the fantasy (or speculative fiction in general) genre.  Are there any tips or resources anyone can share about finding an agent?  I know submitting a first book is a shot in the dark, but I had this conversation with my wife tonight.  I compared it to exercising.  When you first start exercising, you may not get results.  But once you get in the rhythm (of writing and submitting) you may get closer to your goal.  So that's what I'm hoping to do.  Start at the top and then hopefully find someone to represent me that is reliable and trustworthy.  

Any thoughts?


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## Ireth (Jan 30, 2013)

Try here: AgentQuery :: Find the Agent Who Will Find You a Publisher It has a search engine for agents covering all genres.


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## Butterfly (Jan 30, 2013)

Over here (Brit) we have an annual directory of publishers and agents. The Writers' & Artists' Yearbook 2013 Writers' and Artists': Amazon.co.uk: Www Writersandartists Co Uk: Books

They also have a website with useful info Steps in the Writing Process (pretty good blog as well)

I think the American one is 2013 Writer's Market: Amazon.co.uk: Robert Lee Brewer: Books


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## Penpilot (Jan 30, 2013)

I second agent query


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## The Dark One (Feb 6, 2013)

I recently sacked my agent. She was one of the biggest in Australia and, in the wake of my reasonably successful first novel, I thought I was pretty much set for life when I landed her.

Instead, she was a total waste of time. In two years she sent out my existing novel (for OS rights) once and my new novel (for Aust/NZ rights) twice. What's more, she never once gave me the impression that she really 'got' me and my work.

An agent has numerous drawbacks, not least that you can't do anything off your own bat without permission. I was unhappy for a while but hung onto her because I felt like it gave me extra cachet. Now I just feel that she's wasted two years of my career.

A big agent will not give you much of his/her attention. If you want an agent, make sure they are really motivated to sell your work or you may as well do it yourself. I am now negotiating with three different publishers for my new novel (although no final offers yet). At least we're talking.


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## Kevin O. McLaughlin (Feb 8, 2013)

The Dark One said:


> An agent has numerous drawbacks, not least that you can't do anything off your own bat without permission.



Contrary to what many agents might want to be true, the agent is the employee of the writer (well, technically a contractor for the writer, but same basic effect). The AGENT needs the WRITER'S permission to do things, not the other way around. And, thankfully, today the agent needs the writer a HECK of a lot more than the writer needs the agent. Especially in SF/fantasy, where most of the bigger publishers don't worry about whether you have an agent or not anyway.

If your agent thinks that you need to ask permission before doing things then you have a bad agent. If your agent appreciates your asking their advice before doing something, then your agent has a decent understanding of their place in the scheme of things.


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## MichaelSullivan (Feb 10, 2013)

I wrote up a good resource for this on reddit: check out: 

Traditional Publishing: Resources for writing queries and where to send them

Many resources there including some already mentioned here (like Agent Query) along with some others.


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## MichaelSullivan (Feb 10, 2013)

Kevin O. McLaughlin said:


> Contrary to what many agents might want to be true, the agent is the employee of the writer (well, technically a contractor for the writer, but same basic effect). The AGENT needs the WRITER'S permission to do things, not the other way around. And, thankfully, today the agent needs the writer a HECK of a lot more than the writer needs the agent. Especially in SF/fantasy, where most of the bigger publishers don't worry about whether you have an agent or not anyway.



Exactly - you hire an agent, not the other way around.  The confusion comes in the fact that they don't bring on "just anyone" because they only have so much time on their hands. But never forget who "calls the shots."  Now your agent may look at a new manuscript that you write and say, "I can't sell this." So you can't (or should't try) to force them to market it.  At that point you have choices, anything from severing the relationship, to putting the project in the drawer, or taking it on your own (in which case the agent doesn't get their cut).


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## The Dark One (Feb 12, 2013)

Thing is, the agent has all the power. They may not like something so may not want you to send it out yourself because it will make you look amateurish, or otherwise ruin your reputation and saleability.

You can say that thewriter is the hirer but that aint worth a pinch of proverbial when the agent says it's my way or the highway.

I signed with a really big agent, so had no power in the relationship. I know now that this was a bad thing, but hoped (for two years) that the inertia and lack of responsiveness would nevertheless result in a major sale - just on the basis of who she was.

I very much doubt I will sign again with an agent. Hopefully, I am known just enough not to need one.


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## Kevin O. McLaughlin (Feb 13, 2013)

Agents only have as much power as writers give them, because writers don't need them. Never really did, honestly... But now, less than ever. Today, agents need writers far more than writers need agents, and that's only going to get worse instead of better.


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## The Dark One (Feb 13, 2013)

It's just occurred to me that there are far fewer agents in Australia than elsewhere. This gives them cartel-like power and writers who are less than million sellers must wait for them to be less busy serving their big clients.

It's probably a lot more competitive in US/UK so agents haveless power.


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## MichaelSullivan (Feb 13, 2013)

The Dark One said:


> Thing is, the agent has all the power. They may not like something so may not want you to send it out yourself because it will make you look amateurish, or otherwise ruin your reputation and saleability.
> 
> You can say that thewriter is the hirer but that aint worth a pinch of proverbial when the agent says it's my way or the highway.



The agent has no power, without the author's work they have noting to earn from. If they don't believe in your work, then they're not the agent for it.



Kevin O. McLaughlin said:


> Agents only have as much power as writers give them, because writers don't need them. Never really did, honestly... But now, less than ever. Today, agents need writers far more than writers need agents, and that's only going to get worse instead of better.



I agree.


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## The Dark One (Feb 19, 2013)

You know what Michael?

I think you have a lot of useful advice for people on these forums, but on this occasion, I think you've forgotten what it's like to have little or no power in the agency relationship. In theory, the agent has nothing to sell without the author. In reality, the agent spends all their time and effort on where they are going to make money - their established, successful clients.

New clients (in my experience) get bugger all attention and are easily expendable. You need to remember that when giving advice to young players who don't have your standing in the industry.

Agents have all the power and they are ruthless about using it.


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## Kevin O. McLaughlin (Feb 20, 2013)

I think the point Michael is trying to make is that agents are rapidly becoming superfluous. With literally *thousands* of indie books outselling the average advances for their genres, first off, it's now very reasonable to bypass the entire old guard publishing ecosystem. Write books, publish them, and if they're good, and you continue writing to build more readers, then in time you'll be earning as much as you would have been with the agent/publisher route. Still want the traditional deal? More and more agents and publishers are turning to indie writers for their next books. Of course, 2012 was the year when a good chunk of the indies thus approached *turned down* those offers, because they were already making more than the publisher was willing to offer...

But the indie road aside, you do know that SF/Fantasy is one of the genres where most of the majors accept unagented work, right? Having a top agent from a top agency will improve your odds. Having any old agent, in our genre, really won't.

I don't foresee ever using an agent again, except perhaps for overseas rights. Maybe not even then. IP attorneys cost less and do more for you than an agent can.

The literary agent as a profession is in decline. Five years from now, most of the agents employed today will be doing something else.


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## The Dark One (Feb 21, 2013)

Really? In Reply #12, he said all that?

In fact, I think there's some truth in what was said (by Kevin) at Reply #13, but re Michael's posts - he (as far as I know) is by far the most successful and high profile writer here. We all benefit from his experience and wisdom, but I think in this case he's forgotten what it's like to be a struggling wannabe.

To just glibly state that the agent has no power without your work gives new writers completely the wrong impression in terms of their negotiating power with respect to agents - especially the famous agents who can genuinely get you published. You have no power. If they take you on, they probably see it as an indulgent favour or philanthropic gesture, and will pursue your interests only when it suits them.

No doubt, theirs is a waning paradigm, but for the moment they still have a lot more power than unpublished writers - who would do well to remember that when dealing with them.


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## Jessquoi (Feb 21, 2013)

The Dark One said:


> It's just occurred to me that there are far fewer agents in Australia than elsewhere. This gives them cartel-like power and writers who are less than million sellers must wait for them to be less busy serving their big clients.



Just out of interest, who are the leading agents in Australia? And do we have strictly Australian publishing houses?


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## MichaelSullivan (Feb 22, 2013)

The Dark One said:


> You know what Michael?
> 
> I think you have a lot of useful advice for people on these forums, but on this occasion, I think you've forgotten what it's like to have little or no power in the agency relationship. In theory, the agent has nothing to sell without the author. In reality, the agent spends all their time and effort on where they are going to make money - their established, successful clients.
> 
> ...



I think you are missing the important point...If you think that publishing means "being piked up" then yes you are giving others power over you...agents and publishers alike. 

But if you think that the important thing is that "You're being read" - then there are only two parties necessary - the writer and the reader. And the rest b damned. 

Because you create the content YOU ARE IN CONTROL.  What you do with your power (exercise it yourself or give it to someone else) is also YOUR decision.  And I think this is an important lesson ESPECIALLY for young writers... particularly because they so often throw it away then complain they have no power.



One of the reasons I love the writing profession is that "I" am in complete control. If you give power to others - you co


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## MichaelSullivan (Feb 22, 2013)

Kevin O. McLaughlin said:


> I think the point Michael is trying to make is that agents are rapidly becoming superfluous. With literally *thousands* of indie books outselling the average advances for their genres, first off, it's now very reasonable to bypass the entire old guard publishing ecosystem. Write books, publish them, and if they're good, and you continue writing to build more readers, then in time you'll be earning as much as you would have been with the agent/publisher route. Still want the traditional deal? More and more agents and publishers are turning to indie writers for their next books. Of course, 2012 was the year when a good chunk of the indies thus approached *turned down* those offers, because they were already making more than the publisher was willing to offer...



Yes you are correct, and accurate are relaying how I feel- thanks for channeling me. ;-)



Kevin O. McLaughlin said:


> But the indie road aside, you do know that SF/Fantasy is one of the genres where most of the majors accept unagented work, right? Having a top agent from a top agency will improve your odds. Having any old agent, in our genre, really won't.



A very true and valid point.



Kevin O. McLaughlin said:


> I don't foresee ever using an agent again, except perhaps for overseas rights. Maybe not even then. IP attorneys cost less and do more for you than an agent can.



My agent provides a lot of "value add" in the way of resources she has provide on her own dime (consultants, her own ip lawyer etc, arranging a movie/tv agent - she is really looking out after my "career" where IP's do one job are done - I can see valid points or both.



Kevin O. McLaughlin said:


> The literary agent as a profession is in decline. Five years from now, most of the agents employed today will be doing something else.



I agree.


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## MichaelSullivan (Feb 22, 2013)

The Dark One said:


> Really? In Reply #12, he said all that?


Technically no, but in reality yes.  Kevin has known me long enough to know my feelings on this.



The Dark One said:


> In fact, I think there's some truth in what was said (by Kevin) at Reply #13, but re Michael's posts - he (as far as I know) is by far the most successful and high profile writer here. We all benefit from his experience and wisdom, but I think in this case he's forgotten what it's like to be a struggling wannabe.



I'm not forgetting you are a "struggling wannabe" but even a "struggling wannabe" should make decisions that keep them in control of their own work.  I've seen too many authors sign REALLY terrible contracts because they were too "passive" and let the agent bully them into something that wasn't in the author's best interest.  David Dalglish, who just signed with my publisher is a good example. I can't give all the details because they were relayed to me in confidence, but David made a bad choice and paid dearly for it.  I don't want others to do similarly.



The Dark One said:


> To just glibly state that the agent has no power without your work gives new writers completely the wrong impression in terms of their negotiating power with respect to agents - especially the famous agents who can genuinely get you published. You have no power. If they take you on, they probably see it as an indulgent favour or philanthropic gesture, and will pursue your interests only when it suits them.



It's not "being glib"  it's a FACT.  But too many authors look at it from the wrong perspective, they put more value on "being signed" then "protecting their rights" - and this is, imo, a very bad choice.  If you, or the agent feels:



> If they take you on, they probably see it as an indulgent favour or philanthropic gesture, and will pursue your interests only when it suits them.



Then you are with the WRONG AGENT!! Don't sign - danger....danger.



The Dark One said:


> No doubt, theirs is a waning paradigm, but for the moment they still have a lot more power than unpublished writers - who would do well to remember that when dealing with them.



You, of course, have the right to your own opinion...but I fear for you because with this "perspective" you are ripe for being taken advantage of.


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## The Dark One (Mar 1, 2013)

You needed to read back a bit further - my comments commenced with the news that I had sacked my agent because I had come to the realisation that she was wrong for me (and had pretty much wasted two years). I was trying to provide a cautionary tale for young players and I stand by every word.

Including the word glib. When an inexperienced writer first starts dealing with agents they face a massive power imbalance and are profoundly grateful to any publishing professional who gives them any time at all. If dealing with a big name, any judgment they might normally have in important negotiating situations can just evaporate under the glare of the agent's luminous celebrity.

The writer feels indulged and special just spending time with this titan of the publishing world, but they feel that the connection can vanish at any moment. If they are told that something is industry standard, they will believe. If they are told something is not industry standard, they won't care, because even a bad deal with an agent seems better...to the lonely writer tapping away in the proverbial garret...than no deal.

Most importantly, if it's your first relationship with an agent, you won't have any experience with which to weigh the offer. Offers to new writers are rare, and flattering, and the writer has stars in his/her eyes. They will say yes...will be aghast at the prospect of losing the offer. They have no power.

For you to suggest that they do have power may embolden one or two to say no...but that might lose them the one chance they will ever have to be published in the main stream.

You don't have power re agents until a publisher wants your book.

FYI, I am not inexperienced when it comes to publishing or making deals. I've been published by two commercial publishers (both small) and I am a lawyer. I may not know everything about publishing but I do recognise an unequal bargaining relationship and what it means for the negotiation process. 

New writers will always say yes Michael, you're better off giving them advice about the consequences than telling them they have the power to say no.


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## Devor (Mar 1, 2013)

The agent has the upper hand.

The relationship is an ongoing negotiation, and the reality is that an author _has no idea what their value is to the agent_ until he gathers that information through experience.  You've only what they tell you to determine how much they value your book, and you've no idea what other books and authors they're working with.  Meanwhile, the agent knows just about everything the author is doing.

In basic negotiations, that imbalance should put the agent in a much better bargaining position than the author.

That doesn't mean there's no way to rewrite the relationship dynamic.  But loosely speaking, going in, that is probably the typical starting point.


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## Kevin O. McLaughlin (Mar 1, 2013)

The Dark One said:


> When an inexperienced writer first starts dealing with agents they face a massive power imbalance and are profoundly grateful to any publishing professional who gives them any time at all. If dealing with a big name, any judgment they might normally have in important negotiating situations can just evaporate under the glare of the agent's luminous celebrity.
> 
> The writer feels indulged and special just spending time with this titan of the publishing world, but they feel that the connection can vanish at any moment. If they are told that something is industry standard, they will believe. If they are told something is not industry standard, they won't care, because even a bad deal with an agent seems better...to the lonely writer tapping away in the proverbial garret...than no deal.



Again - that era is over now.

Yes, there are still writers who "grew up" being spoonfed the whole 'write book - get agent - get publisher' system. But that's no longer the only valid path today. Today, writers have options, and we're actively educating each other about those options.

Today, writers can earn more money self publishing than they can from a trade publisher. In fact, your "odds" of making a living at writing using either method appear to be roughly equal, these days.

More and more publishers are allowing direct submissions. More and more publishers are actively soliciting work from writers who've proved their mettle via self publishing. More and more writers are turning down those offers, because they're already making more than the publisher will pay, or the contracts the publisher is requiring of them are too onerous.

Today, if you have a very good agent, they can be a help. But they're no longer essential and may or may not be useful, depending on your writing and your goals. A bad or even a mediocre agent is probably worse than none at all. There are not many very good agents, and they tend to go after "name brand" writers - so if you're a novice, almost certainly you're faced with the case of "the agent you can get is not the agent you want". Or more bluntly: if you've never published a book and have no publishing history, you're almost certainly NOT going to get an agent who will be useful to you at all.

Unless you're getting a top agent, who actually knows editors who work in your genre, using your wife, husband, brother, mom, or pet goldfish as your agent is probably going to be about as effective. And less risky. Don't forget: there are NO requirements to becoming an agent, aside from saying "I am an agent". Most agents do not have useful contacts with major publishers - they're just ending up in the "agent slushpile" with hundreds of other agented works.



> Most importantly, if it's your first relationship with an agent, you won't have any experience with which to weigh the offer. Offers to new writers are rare, and flattering, and the writer has stars in his/her eyes. They will say yes...will be aghast at the prospect of losing the offer. They have no power.



Which is why educating young writers is so important. The game has changed. Today, authors have the power, and agents are...well, headed for the unemployment line, most of them.



> For you to suggest that they do have power may embolden one or two to say no...but that might lose them the one chance they will ever have to be published in the main stream.



Unlikely. If they continue to writer, continue to publish, and really want a trade publishing deal, eventually they will acquire one. It takes time, and high levels of skill, and probably years of slowly building a fan base by selling the books under your own label. But you do not need an agent anymore, even if major mainstream publishing is your goal. You just need to write a lot, publish a lot, and not stop working at your goal.



> You don't have power re agents until a publisher wants your book.



Of course you do. You have the power to walk away, publish yourself, and almost certainly earn as much as you would have from the traditional deal. If your book is good enough to sell to a major publisher, then you're pretty certainly going to make the $2000-5000 that you're likely to get from the major publisher for the book. Because that's the average advance for a first novel.

Or you can make Goldie your agent, learn the submission email addresses for the agent slushpiles, and be in as good shape as anyone else using most agents would be. 

Edited to add: PS - When a publisher wants your book is when you definitely don't need an agent anymore. You might still find one useful - but if a publisher is already interested, an IP attorney is often a better bet.


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## Kevin O. McLaughlin (Mar 2, 2013)

MichaelSullivan said:


> I've seen too many authors sign REALLY terrible contracts because they were too "passive" and let the agent bully them into something that wasn't in the author's best interest.  David Dalglish, who just signed with my publisher is a good example. I can't give all the details because they were relayed to me in confidence, but David made a bad choice and paid dearly for it.  I don't want others to do similarly.



David posted some of the details about his agency woes in an interview here: From Pizza Hut To Easy Street: The David Dalglish Story | David Gaughran

And it is SERIOUSLY a tale to take to heart. If the deal feels wrong, DON'T sign it! Even if you think it feels right, for goodness sake get a lawyer who knows publishing/agency contracts to vet it first.

Otherwise, you're liable to end up with a mess like David did.

The sharks are in the waters, folks. Don't be shark food.


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## Ireth (Mar 2, 2013)

Kevin O. McLaughlin said:


> The sharks are in the waters, folks. Don't be shark food.



Unless it's the Query Shark, heheh.


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## The Dark One (Mar 2, 2013)

Kevin, I completely agree with most of your points about the waning agency paradigm, but the era is not over. Definitely, it is in a cuspid transitional phase, but as far as the mainstream publishers go it is still the dominant paradigm - in my country anyway.

But the thread title is "Finding a Literary Agent". It is not about alternative paths to getting published - however valid. My comments are purely designed for those looking for literary agents, based on my own experiences in my own country. One thing I know for certain, in Australia, if you are represented by a major agent you are taken far more seriously than if you are not. It is almost impossible to get through the door of a big publisher without either an agent or major sales achieved as a self-publisher.

Believe it or not, some people aren't much interested in self-publishing.


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## MichaelSullivan (Mar 3, 2013)

Here's my problem...authors are mistreated...often...and it's their own faults.  I'm not sure what it is that causes them to have so little self-esteem but I see it everywhere, and it's going to hurt them in the long run.  By your own admission, The Dark One, you wasted years, and ended up having to fire your agent.  David Dalglish had to PAY MONEY to make his agent go away!!  

I'm with Kevin in the whole, "you don't have to do it like it's always been done," but I also understand those that WANT to go the traditional route...and they should...but if you do so with the mindset of willing to take any crumb that comes your way, genuflecting at everyone "in the business" you are going to be taken advantage of...period.  Traditional is a tough business, so grow a backbone or be prepared to accept the consequences.  YOU are the only one in charge of YOUR career and what happens to you during the process.  If you give the power to others, then don't be surprised that they wield it over you.


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## The Dark One (Mar 4, 2013)

Sorry Michael, but this is exactly why I suggested that you had possibly forgotten what it was like to be in a position of no power vis a vis 'the industry'.

There's no point telling people to grow a backbone when they are walking wide-eyed with wonder into the office of a publishing professional and being taken seriously for the first time as a writer.

My approach to this was to tell a cautionary tale about how I gradually realised I had signed with the wrong agent, in order perhaps to embolden others who might find themselves in similar positions. 

I believe it was a valid contribution and more likely to help new players than exhorting them to grow backbones in circumstances they are unable to gauge objectively.


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## MichaelSullivan (Mar 10, 2013)

The Dark One said:


> Sorry Michael, but this is exactly why I suggested that you had possibly forgotten what it was like to be in a position of no power vis a vis 'the industry'.
> 
> There's no point telling people to grow a backbone when they are walking wide-eyed with wonder into the office of a publishing professional and being taken seriously for the first time as a writer.
> 
> ...



Well I think we're going to just agree to disagree.  Both points have been made, now it's up to the writers who read them to decide which piece of advice to follow.  I'm not saying your contribution wasn't valid...and you yourself said you made a mistake.  I was merely suggesting that you have to get that get rid of that "wide-eyed wonder" before signing anything and look at what you are signing up for - because you are going to be held to what you sign - usually for a VERY long time.


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## Lucas (Mar 10, 2013)

I have had my book professionally edited. But yet no literary agent has replied back with anything but rejections


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