# Opinions on the World I Created



## Risha Fidda (Apr 17, 2012)

As the title of this thread suggests, I would like some feedback and opinions on the world I created for my fantasy story.  I'm open to all suggestions.  

The world I'm created is based on the Taoist paradise of Chinese mythology, Kunlun, which is also supposed to the abode of Xi Wangmu, an ancient Chinese goddess who is called the Queen Mother of the West. Actually, the world _is_ Kunlun and Kunlun in my story is one of a couple mythical paradises that can be accessed and lived by people in our world and is the main setting of my tale.  The history of Kunlun goes likes this: 

During the Tang Dynasty, Xi Wangmu, as an act of mercy, allowed entrance and residence to her paradise to large number of people from China (those of whom who have abilities or powers) the event called "The First Song of Heavenly Embrace". 3 years later, she installed ancient imperial rule in Kunlun and announced and made the first imperial dynasty in Kunlun. This imperial rule she installed has survived to modern-day. In addition to creating imperial rule in her paradise, she used to play a deciding role in Kunlun politics. In later centuries, she granted entrance and residence to other people around the world. However, after seeing humans act hideously, she eventually and gradually withdrew herself from human affairs. Her last act of involvement being deciding how transportation to and from Kunlun will work and function and sanctioning the creation of the government agency of the Imperial Ministry of Cross-world Passage (I.M.C.W.P), which deals with this transportation affair. 

Anyway, my questions are:

1) Does this world sound good enough? Is there anything else I should work on or establish?

2) I want to make this world a blend of aspects and features of ancient Chinese culture and other ancient cultures and modern features (since the people of this world do have contact with our world). What aspects of ancient China should I retain for this world and which should I throw out? Same goes for modern features.

3) Does the imperial rule surviving up to this day in this world make sense? Should I keep it or change this style of government/rule to something else?

4) Do Xi Wangmu's motivations to open her home to humans make sense? Or should I expand more as to why she would do such a thing? Does the eventual withdrawal of her presence from human affairs in Kunlun make sense?  

Apologies for the long post, but I wanted to be clear in what I was asking. I'm eager to hear your thoughts.


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## Queshire (Apr 17, 2012)

You say she opened the way to it in an act of mercy, but what are the specifics of that? Perhaps the people with abilities/powers where being persecuted by the non-powered majority? That's always a convenient excuse. Admittedly I'm not too clear on what the imperial dynasty would entail exactly, but I think if the emperor was more or less just a figure head it'd last for awhile, or maybe if the emperor was immortal or something. Also, I think it'd be best for the Emperor to have some relation with the goddess to legitimize his rule. Her son or something maybe? You would also need to detail what exactly would make her withdraw from society. While general evils are fine, there needs to be a tiping point.

For culture and whatever, I think you can not just copy imperial china, that would be the starting point, their culture would evolve from there, prolly in a differnt way then real life culture, but evolve anyways.


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## JCFarnham (Apr 17, 2012)

Right. I'm going to tackle the cultural question as thats more my area of interest 

First thing I suggest you do (after researching dynastic china of course, so like ... second thing) would be to look into some multicultural societies in our world. You've got plenty of "metropolii" to chose from, but heres a more interesting example of a mixed culture. 

On the Eastern Carribean island of Montserrat, they are firstly a Carribean people and everything you would expect to come from that (as well as their proximity to North America I suppose), secondly they obsertve St. Patrick's Day, due to settlers, although it has been twisted over the years into a kind of St. Patrick's week. 

So you definitely need to take into account the movement of cultural worth between our world and Kunlun.

Second thing, I would do, is look at the cultures you're considering side by side. Naturally, some elements of one or the other simply won't gel together (differing forms of governance comes to mind instantly, currently and historically). You'll probably have to get rid of some elements if you want to keep others. I don't know what to suggest specifically however as on the one hand I don't know your story and on the other I know criminally little about the Tang Dynasty onwards (or any Chinese history for that matter haha).

So. Hope that gives you something to think about.

NB; Naturally not all cultural elements in Kunlun need to "gel together", stuff that doesn't work gives you instant conflict, the kind you'd expect to see in a multicultural society. As I said though, there will be some incompatibility in there some where that needs to be address.

I'd just pick and choose according to the rule of cool to be honest


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## Legendary Sidekick (Apr 17, 2012)

I see some Chinese culture up there, and some Irish... add some Italian, and you've got my kids.

Anyway, I totally agree with JC's pick-and-choose based on the rule of cool. That said, what kind of access do you have to Chinese culture and Taoism? My wife is Chinese. She's Catholic, but most of her extended family is Taoist. I know some of the traditions, such as breaking seven seals--or is it nine?--at funerals, and burning paper objects to send gifts to dead relatives. I'm not sure if that information is helpful, or if that's the sort of thing you already know.

To answer your questions:

1) It can work. I like the East-meets-West thing!

2 & 3) I could buy the idea that the Goddess' paradise doesn't develop into a modern world like the Earth does. Those who live in Kunlun probably have no incentive to change their world. They may be complacent in their utopia, or the gods keep them under their thumb. In any case, I could buy into this idea with little or no explanation.

4) Xi Wangmu's motivations can be gradually revealed as the story develops. I can think of several. (When living in Hong Kong, I'd seen plenty of Chinese stories, paintings and TV series about magic, swords, gods and goddess. It's the Eastern version of Greek mythology.)


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## Risha Fidda (Apr 17, 2012)

Queshire said:


> You say she opened the way to it in an act of mercy, but what are the specifics of that? Perhaps the people with abilities/powers where being persecuted by the non-powered majority? That's always a convenient excuse. Admittedly I'm not too clear on what the imperial dynasty would entail exactly, but I think if the emperor was more or less just a figure head it'd last for awhile, or maybe if the emperor was immortal or something. Also, I think it'd be best for the Emperor to have some relation with the goddess to legitimize his rule. Her son or something maybe? You would also need to detail what exactly would make her withdraw from society. While general evils are fine, there needs to be a tiping point.
> 
> For culture and whatever, I think you can not just copy imperial china, that would be the starting point, their culture would evolve from there, prolly in a differnt way then real life culture, but evolve anyways.



Oh, dear, I forgot to mention the specifics of her mercy. D'oh! :redface: Anyway, you guessed right.  She showed mercy and allowed entrance to these people because they were facing persecution. And I didn't think about the first emperor being a relation to her, but it would fit as there were legends of some emperors meeting her and some of these encounters were rumored to be romantic. Also, the  first emperor being her son would legitimize his rule more and would make more political sense and I did consider making the emperor a mere figure head or a puppet later on in Kunlun history. Finally, I'll brainstorm some more as to what was the tipping point for Xi Wangmu. Adding your suggestions to my story. And don't worry, I'm not going to copy and paste imperial China unto the culture of Kunlun.  Anyway, thank you very much for your input!


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## Devor (Apr 17, 2012)

Risha Fidda said:


> 1) Does this world sound good enough? Is there anything else I should work on or establish?
> 
> 2) I want to make this world a blend of aspects and features of ancient Chinese culture and other ancient cultures and modern features (since the people of this world do have contact with our world). What aspects of ancient China should I retain for this world and which should I throw out? Same goes for modern features.
> 
> ...



1)  I like it as a starting point.

2)  In my opinion, take as much as you can from Ancient China _and make it cool_.  The rule-of-cool is great, but you're the writer, be inventive and take control of the material.  Your work will be better if, at least while brainstorming, you pull in as much as possible, and then make the necessary cuts in the outline.  Trying to reconcile more of the different pieces of Chinese mythology with your world will give you more depth (assuming you have the good judgement to know what you're doing).

3)  Keep the Imperial Rule, but don't get stereotypical about it.  Imperial Rule in China has meant a lot of different things throughout history, although the trend has been towards absolutism (in Japan it was more often figurehead).  In my opinion, look for a specific point in Chinese history where Imperialism may have been a little mitigated, and then see about replicating that idea.

4)  It depends on what you want to do with your story.  Are you creating a backdrop or do you want the setting to play heavily into the main story?  It sounds like you do, so I think flushing out those details and releasing that information piecemeal can set up suspense and surprises.  You can make her primary motivations secretive - maybe she saw a way to benefit from bringing the power in, or else from stripping the world of these powerful people - or else she recognized that _somebody else_ would benefit or be hurt or be prevented from something by taking these people in.


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## Risha Fidda (Apr 17, 2012)

JCFarnham said:


> Right. I'm going to tackle the cultural question as thats more my area of interest
> 
> First thing I suggest you do (after researching dynastic china of course, so like ... second thing) would be to look into some multicultural societies in our world. You've got plenty of "metropolii" to chose from, but heres a more interesting example of a mixed culture.
> 
> On the Eastern Carribean island of Montserrat, they are firstly a Carribean people and everything you would expect to come from that (as well as their proximity to North America I suppose), secondly they obsertve St. Patrick's Day, due to settlers, although it has been twisted over the years into a kind of St. Patrick's week.



Oh, I will be definitely researching dynastic China along with multicultural societies as well. 



> So you definitely need to take into account the movement of cultural worth between our world and Kunlun.
> 
> Second thing, I would do, is look at the cultures you're considering side by side. Naturally, some elements of one or the other simply won't gel together (differing forms of governance comes to mind instantly, currently and historically). You'll probably have to get rid of some elements if you want to keep others. I don't know what to suggest specifically however as on the one hand I don't know your story and on the other I know criminally little about the Tang Dynasty onwards (or any Chinese history for that matter haha).



The cultures that are going to appear side by side with Chinese culture in Kunlun are: Korean, Japanese Indian, Middle-Eastern, African/African-American (apparently, during the Tang Dynasty, Chinese traders got as far as Eastern Africa. Also, in my story, in later centuries, escaped slaves also made refuge and shelter in Kunlun), French, English, and Italian. Basically cultures, according to the information I've read, the ancient Chinese encountered during the Tang Dynasty and Ming Dynasty.



> So. Hope that gives you something to think about.
> 
> NB; Naturally not all cultural elements in Kunlun need to "gel together", stuff that doesn't work gives you instant conflict, the kind you'd expect to see in a multicultural society. As I said though, there will be some incompatibility in there some where that needs to be address.
> 
> I'd just pick and choose according to the rule of cool to be honest



Ah, got it. Will keep in mind that there is bound to be conflict due to cultural differences. 

And this may make me sound like an uncool and stupid 22-year old, but what does "Rule of Cool" mean? :redface:

Thank you very much for your input and taking your advice to heart!


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## Risha Fidda (Apr 17, 2012)

Legendary Sidekick said:


> I see some Chinese culture up there, and some Irish... add some Italian, and you've got my kids.
> 
> Anyway, I totally agree with JC's pick-and-choose based on the rule of cool. That said, what kind of access do you have to Chinese culture and Taoism? My wife is Chinese. She's Catholic, but most of her extended family is Taoist. I know some of the traditions, such as breaking seven seals--or is it nine?--at funerals, and burning paper objects to send gifts to dead relatives. I'm not sure if that information is helpful, or if that's the sort of thing you already know.



Ah, this is embarrassing, but I really don't have much access to Chinese culture and Taoism. I'm a person of color, but not Chinese or Asian nor am I Taoist. The only access I have to Chinese culture are various books on the culture for research, me being a mythology geek, and learning about it during high-school and watching the occasional history program on it. :redface:

Anyway, I was not aware about that information and it does help and give me ideas as to incorporate them into my story. 



> To answer your questions:
> 
> 1) It can work. I like the East-meets-West thing!
> 
> ...



1) Thanks. I also like East-meets-West too. 

2 & 3) Actually I didn't consider that the people in Kunlun would probably get complacent since they're living in a paradise, but it makes sense and would explain why Kunlun wouldn't exactly be a modern  world. Well, it does have a couple of modern elements. Think of the world as a Chinese version of Naruto (the world setting, I mean.) Will take that into consideration. 

4) Actually, Xi Wangmu's motivations for granting residence to her home are not the main point of my story. Her motivations are more of backdrop (?) explanations as to why Kunlun is the way it is: an East-meets-West paradise with some features of modern society, but still defined by aspects of imperial China and other cultures. 

Thank you very much for your input as well. Very much appreciate it!


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## Risha Fidda (Apr 17, 2012)

Devor said:


> 1)  I like it as a starting point.
> 
> 2)  In my opinion, take as much as you can from Ancient China _and make it cool_.  The rule-of-cool is great, but you're the writer, be inventive and take control of the material.  Your work will be better if, at least while brainstorming, you pull in as much as possible, and then make the necessary cuts in the outline.  Trying to reconcile more of the different pieces of Chinese mythology with your world will give you more depth (assuming you have the good judgement to know what you're doing).



Got it. Will definitely take thay into consideration when brainstorming more about the setting. 



> 3)  Keep the Imperial Rule, but don't get stereotypical about it.  Imperial Rule in China has meant a lot of different things throughout history, although the trend has been towards absolutism (in Japan it was more often figurehead).  In my opinion, look for a specific point in Chinese history where Imperialism may have been a little mitigated, and then see about replicating that idea.



I will ensure that I will try as I might that I won't get stereotypical with the Imperial Rule. However, possibly I will post more information about the politics of this world to make sure I didn't get stereotypical along with doing more research on the subject. 



> 4)  It depends on what you want to do with your story.  Are you creating a backdrop or do you want the setting to play heavily into the main story?  It sounds like you do, so I think flushing out those details and releasing that information piecemeal can set up suspense and surprises.  You can make her primary motivations secretive - maybe she saw a way to benefit from bringing the power in, or else from stripping the world of these powerful people - or else she recognized that _somebody else_ would benefit or be hurt or be prevented from something by taking these people in.



Xi Wangmu's motivations are the backdrop of the story. The main story is my cast of characters are going to be traveling through various places in the this world and then getting separated from each other eventually and traveling through this world by themselves and accomplishing their own individual goals before reuniting with each other to accomplish their main goal (beat the main bad. Yes, I know: cliche but oh well. )


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## Devor (Apr 17, 2012)

Risha Fidda said:


> Xi Wangmu's motivations are the backdrop of the story. The main story is my cast of characters are going to be traveling through various places in the this world and then getting separated from each other eventually and traveling through this world by themselves and accomplishing their own individual goals before reuniting with each other to accomplish their main goal (beat the main bad. Yes, I know: cliche but oh well. )



Then focus on that and leave her motivations, for now, implied or second-hand so that you have options with a sequel.


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## Risha Fidda (Apr 17, 2012)

Devor said:


> Then focus on that and leave her motivations, for now, implied or second-hand so that you have options with a sequel.



Okay. Will do. Thank you so much for your input.


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## Legendary Sidekick (Apr 20, 2012)

Risha Fidda said:


> Ah, this is embarrassing, but I really don't have much access to Chinese culture and Taoism. I'm a person of color, but not Chinese or Asian nor am I Taoist. The only access I have to Chinese culture are various books on the culture for research, me being a mythology geek, and learning about it during high-school and watching the occasional history program on it. :redface:
> 
> Anyway, I was not aware about that information and it does help and give me ideas as to incorporate them into my story.


Mostly, I wasn't sure if the little I knew happened to be something you already knew.

You certainly don't need to be Chinese or Taoist to make this work. You're doing the research, and that's what counts.

One tip from my wife. Verify that Chinese sounding names are actually names. (I mean for any characters you create, as I assume Xi Wangmu is an actual goddess' name from actual Chinese mythology.)

I wouldn't know a good Chinese name from a real one. I asked my wife if our unborn child can have "dragon" as part of his Chinese name. If we were having a boy, than he would have been something-Leung or Leung-something. But we're having a girl, and the dragon character does not belong in a girl's name. I did correctly guess that her name would share a character from her sisters' names. My wife and her sister also have a common character in their names (besides the family name, of course).

My daughters' Chinese names are Yi-Tak, Wai-Tak and Tak-Yeung. My point of sharing that is to show that sisters share part of their name, but the shared character can be first or last.


EDIT- My kids' names use Cantonese phonetics, and both haves are capitalized separately. Mandarin names are romanized as a single two-syllable word. (I tend to hyphenate no matter what.)

My Chinese name in Cantonese: Ha Lik Hang.
In Mandarin: Xia Lixing. (li = lik, xing = hang)
Written in Chinese: 夏力行


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## Devor (Apr 20, 2012)

Legendary Sidekick said:


> But we're having a girl...



Did I miss the announcement?  Congratulations!


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