# Dragon Skin Colors



## Barsook (Nov 10, 2012)

Sorry for linking to my blog (again) but here is the link: Dragzard Colors Â« World of Torzukarr

The question is asking if using the dragon skin colors and linking up with personally like what you see in DragonLance is it copywrited because it's in written form.  Or is it not because we all know that red dragons are hoarders and gold dragons are full of wisdom.


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## Roc (Nov 10, 2012)

I don't like the idea that colors relate to certain personalities. Of course, the connotation of a red or black dragon makes you think of an evil one, and a white, blue, or green one could make you think of a friendly one. I found that in Inheritance Series, the author seemed to use this system, as the colors of his dragons match most of the personalities mentioned.

It just doesn't seem very creative or inventive to me to use that system. Interesting website, anyhow.


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## wordwalker (Nov 10, 2012)

Be careful with them, though, because the color set isn't Weis & Hickman inventions: it's from D&D.


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## MadMadys (Nov 10, 2012)

I don't think you have to worry about copyright on that sort of things because some of those distinctions can really be traced back well before fantasy literature.  I mean, black equating to bad is common in a lot of western cultures.

Now, as Roc said, I think having colors = personality is sort of predictable but you can do whatever you like with your own material.


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## Barsook (Nov 10, 2012)

Yeah, I know and that's why I posted this post.  It's something that really stuck with Dragzards and their skin colors.  I guess I should now think about changing it.

And Roc, thanks for the thanks.


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## Saigonnus (Nov 10, 2012)

I tend to use more natural occurring colors for my dragons, ones that would blend in with their environment. I don't refer to them as "red dragons" "black dragons" etc. 

For example, I have a flightless dragon I call "Evres Dizrak" in the native tongue (roughly translated to sand devil) that thrives in the desert, with a tan and brown mottled hide. They lie in wait beneath the sand or in caves for prey to come into their territory before they attack; whether it be camels, people or whatever. They have a large territory and patrol often, moving at night more often than not.

I personally think those stereotypes are overly used in fantasy and you should be careful in copying too closely.


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## Barsook (Nov 10, 2012)

Yours are dragons, mine are dragon (lizardmen) like people so I think skin colors that are natural would not work well if I want Dragzards to be human like.  But could be my fault for naming this topic "dragon skin colors", it should be Dragzard skin colors.  But still, I think the spin off, if you would say, might be a risk to use.


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## Saigonnus (Nov 11, 2012)

Look at humans, even we tend to have skin colors dependant on the environment we live in and our heritage, and they change color depending on the amount of sun we get, but blue and purple aren't in it because we evolved without the need for natural camoflage (we use artificial in most cases). It wouldn't be that far off to say have a chameleon "lizard man" or even blue or red spotted "lizards" living in tropical climes since they exist that way in nature, but having a white dragon living in a desert would a bit of a stretch for realism in my opinion. If your lizards even remotely followed the same sort of evolution that humans did, they could possibly have advanced past the need for natural camoflage. 

I have a concept sci-fi story where made Ssalar (from the world of the same name) who were genetically advanced from ordinary reptiles and aphibians. They were placed there during the terraforming process and the strange energy interaction with the planet and it's moon caused them to evolve at an accelerated rate until they become bipedal and intelligent. They vary in color as well, but like lizards or snakes, their hide isn't generally a single solid color, but green, grey, brown or tan with mottling of color or patterns of colors like lizards on Earth depending on the climate they came from. 

Another option that comes to mind is a hierarchy dependent on color. Maybe the darker colors are the smaller dragons and the lighter colors are larger. 

Perhaps like the real world, the female "dragons" could be plainer colors to easier hide from predators, while the males are the more brightly colored ones; to attract the attention.


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## ThinkerX (Nov 11, 2012)

There is an old fantasy series by Knack (sp?) which featured different clans of dragons, each clan dominated by a single color, with that color linked to their personality.  If memory serves:

Gold - imperial ambition
Green - amnicable to humans
Red - destructive, firey tempered (literally)
Blue - aquatic dragons, sometimes helpful to humans
Cyrstal - utter enigma
White - cold dwelling, coldly hateful

and half a dozen others - black, brass, silver, ect

The dragon clans directly ruled provinces populated by humans (and a few other races), but were in a long term state of decline while the human population exploded.


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## Svrtnsse (Nov 11, 2012)

I've used dragons with different colours to represent different things but haven't thought about it as being some sort of protected idea. I feel it's pretty commonly accepted that dragons can have different colours depending on their breed. Some worlds where this is the case have been mentioned already but I would like to add that the World of Warcraft puts a lot of emphasis on the different colours of the various dragonflights.

In my own WIP the different colours of dragons represent the emotions that spawned them. The basic idea is that dragons manifest when a large enough group of people experience the same emotions strongly enough or over a long enough period of time.


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## Barsook (Nov 11, 2012)

I'm planning to change the idea, but can we all say that this is not copywritted:

Gold = wisdom
red= hoarder <--- or this D&D still
black= evil


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## wordwalker (Nov 11, 2012)

I think it's getting away from D&D, especially if you have just those three and have them more or less equal in power.

The most distinctive thing about the D&D set is that they have ten main types, five colors that are evil and five metals that are good. So one thing you might want to change is gold being much more friendly than the others.


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## Barsook (Nov 11, 2012)

I don't have Dragzards (or dragons, in fact) that are split between good and evil.  There is only one who is evil and that would be a black dragon.  I think with that, the split is nine good/neutral (blues, reds, and greens are neutral rather than evil) and one evil with both Dragzards and dragons.  I should of added that bit.

Also, if you noticed, that I have also did some mixing of colors to create other color combinations to create other personalities.   But still, is that too predictable?

(I still think it's a spinoff with extra colors.)

Link to the Dragzard race post: Race Idea- Good or Bad Â« World of Torzukarr

Links to two drawings of Dragzards:

Drawing of a Dragzard Â« World of Torzukarr
Drawing- Dragzard Â« World of Torzukarr
Gift to me from a friend on chess.com Â« World of Torzukarr


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## Saigonnus (Nov 11, 2012)

Barsook said:


> I don't have Dragzards (or dragons, in fact) that are split between good and evil.  There is only one who is evil and that would be a black dragon.  I think with that, the split is nine good/neutral (blues, reds, and greens are neutral rather than evil) and one evil with both Dragzards and dragons.  I should of added that bit.



I always thought it was silly that specific colors are designated as evil among dragonkind. Why black and white and red are always those that are looking to cause trouble instead of more humanlike and have evil/good/neutral among ALL colors. Perhaps a color could LEAN toward an alignment, but for sake of realism I would think there would be creatures of all alignments in a clan or group of dragonkind.


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## Wanara009 (Nov 11, 2012)

When it comes to nature, bright colour on a animal is usually a warning sign for the creature's toxicity. Especially Blue, Yellow (especially Gold), and Bright Red (colour that don't really help in camouflage). It usually say: "Hey Predators, Look at me. I'm not even bothering to blend in to my surrounding coz I'm _that_ good, so come and get some if you think you're hard enough!" Of course, human often interpret anything poisonous as 'evil'.

For a good example, I refer you to Monster Hunter (tm) "Rathalos/Rathian". The aggressive, venomous, and dangerous Rathalos is bright red (which also make sense in other ways, since it has to attract mate and it is a good flyer so it doesn't have to rely on camouflage) while Rathian is earthly coloured (not a great flier, so it has to set up ambushes. Less dangerous than Rathalos, so it usescamouflage as secondary defense).


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## Barsook (Nov 12, 2012)

Saigonnus said:


> I always thought it was silly that specific colors are designated as evil among dragonkind. Why black and white and red are always those that are looking to cause trouble instead of more humanlike and have evil/good/neutral among ALL colors. Perhaps a color could LEAN toward an alignment, but for sake of realism I would think there would be creatures of all alignments in a clan or group of dragonkind.



Maybe I should use the idea of certain color leaning towards an alignment.  But does it still sound like D&D?

I really like that idea because it can lean (more so it will) towards some good stereotyping in Torzukarr.  Because I have a black dragon who caused a war between humans and dragons...which feels like that going to change.  But again, is this still too much like D&D?

@Wanara009:

I might do it but I don't know how that will translate into Dragzards because they are created from a dragon and a human.  But that could create some good stereotyping in Torzukarr for the other races, maybe for even Dragzards themselves.


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## SeverinR (Nov 15, 2012)

I use colors from nature.
I look at the poison dart frog colors.
Figuring a deadly lizard would not blend with nature as the rest of nature, so they tend to be bright and flashy, to warn other animals they are deadly.
even the black, would be glossy black, not dull.
Also I try not to use single color dragons commonly. 
I name my dragons by location and defensive weapon;
Desert lightning dragon, Marsh acid dragon, Jungle fire dragon, artic ice dragon.
(how many people pictured the color of the dragon based on the breath weapon? I still see the colors as AD&D layed them out.)


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## Anders Ã„mting (Nov 16, 2012)

Personally, I'm kinda uncomfortable with making skin color a direct indicator of moral values or specific personality traits. But maybe I'm just weird like that.



Saigonnus said:


> I always thought it was silly that specific colors are designated as evil among dragonkind. Why black and white and red are always those that are looking to cause trouble instead of more humanlike and have evil/good/neutral among ALL colors. Perhaps a color could LEAN toward an alignment, but for sake of realism I would think there would be creatures of all alignments in a clan or group of dragonkind.



A thing to remember about D&D is that Law, Chaos, Good and Evil are actually real forces of the universe that exist objectively. Hence why certain creatures can be naturally aligned to them.


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## Gurkhal (Nov 21, 2012)

You could also use some other code of color, like heraldy and its tincture, to base what kind of dragons different colors will be.


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## Saigonnus (Nov 21, 2012)

Anders Ã„mting said:


> Personally, I'm kinda uncomfortable with making skin color a direct indicator of moral values or specific personality traits. But maybe I'm just weird like that.
> 
> A thing to remember about D&D is that Law, Chaos, Good and Evil are actually real forces of the universe that exist objectively. Hence why certain creatures can be naturally aligned to them.



True, but I really never followed the rules generally when it came to my campaigns; especially involving alignment based on skin color or character race except in the most general way. Sure, one could assume that most drow elves are evil because they worship an evil goddess and exist in a society where murder is applauded; but you cannot say ALL drows are evil when some like Drizz't Do'Urden broke that mold a long time ago. 

The way I normally did things was to assign character traits to any dragons in the campaign we were going to face and let that dictate to me what sort of alignment they have. You'd think one that is friendly, honorable etc... wouldn't be evil just because he's a black dragon, they have intelligence like a human, why not work within that concept? I remember having a silver dragon that was vengeful, arrogant and vicious, not usually traits associated with lawful good are they? 

Sure, MOST silver dragons are good and MOST black dragons are evil, but there are always exceptions to the rules; that is what I was referring to when I said a race could lean towards an alignment.


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## Caged Maiden (Nov 21, 2012)

Hmm... all good info here.  I too, an a huge fan of dragons.  I use colors in my dragons, but none of my dragons are inherently evil or good.  They're animals, and like wolves, a red one isn't any more aggressive or evil than a black or white one, necessarily.

One thing that changes from color to color, is the types of magic they govern.  While all dragons have some of the same powers, others have breath weapons, some are flying, some are beings that exude corruption... it is all based on magic they can't control, or can, and use to their advantage.  

Dragons in my world are rare, and the biggest, oldest are many times more powerful than the young ones.


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## Barsook (Nov 21, 2012)

(Maybe a article could be written about dragons and the use of dragons in a world)

Anyways, thanks for all of the comments/suggestions/tips/ect, I'm already in the process of redesigning my dragons and Dragzards.


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## SeverinR (Nov 23, 2012)

Caged Maiden said:


> Hmm... all good info here.  I too, an a huge fan of dragons.  I use colors in my dragons, but none of my dragons are inherently evil or good.  They're animals, and like wolves, a red one isn't any more aggressive or evil than a black or white one, necessarily.
> 
> One thing that changes from color to color, is the types of magic they govern.  While all dragons have some of the same powers, others have breath weapons, some are flying, some are beings that exude corruption... it is all based on magic they can't control, or can, and use to their advantage.
> 
> Dragons in my world are rare, and the biggest, oldest are many times more powerful than the young ones.



I use similar colors for like species dragons, I reason the base color would be caused by the breath weapon as a side affect or something. Electric blue, white-frost, fire red, etc, but the second or third colors could be anything else. A 50/50 red blue dragon would be difficult to tell with what weapon they would deal with, but there are other traits that tell also. (one common is the crest horns)


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## Barsook (Nov 23, 2012)

The crest horns is set by the author, right?  Or is there a common dragon species design that many follow?


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## SeverinR (Nov 29, 2012)

I don't think anyone has established a crest horn norm.
I think alot of artists automatically think of D&D's crest horn tradition, so if you look at dragons they tend to use the D&D standard.
The way I look at them, crest horns are basically defensive, so the more aggressive the dragon the smaller(in number and size) the defensive horns would be. The less agressive the bigger the defensive horns would be.
I think the only offensive horns would be on the spade.(tail)


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## SeverinR (Nov 29, 2012)

Caged Maiden said:


> Hmm... all good info here.  I too, an a huge fan of dragons.  I use colors in my dragons, but none of my dragons are inherently evil or good.  They're animals, and like wolves, a red one isn't any more aggressive or evil than a black or white one, necessarily.
> 
> One thing that changes from color to color, is the types of magic they govern.  While all dragons have some of the same powers, others have breath weapons, some are flying, some are beings that exude corruption... it is all based on magic they can't control, or can, and use to their advantage.
> 
> Dragons in my world are rare, and the biggest, oldest are many times more powerful than the young ones.



The only beasts I have labeled good or evil:
Unicorn(although unicorns can be corrupted or fall) and Devil/demons.
Nomadic orcs tend to be conquerers, but there are groups that set up towns and they tend to be more neutral.
I figure if a being can think, they can decide if good or evil is best, or something in between.

My dragons, like in nature, the young are full of energy and charge, where as the older dragons tend to think it out and use their abilities to peak. Thus they are more dangerous.

Then again, most of the time the evil, don't consider themselves evil, just taking what is rightfully thiers, or that the others would do the same if they had the ability.


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## Valoren (Nov 30, 2012)

You could go the way that I have done and relate it to racial type much as human races have different colouration physical features. Go beyond generalisation that is portrayed by most established fantasy writing and create something a little different. I related my dragon colours partially to elemental type and partialy to genetic background. And don't forget the smaller details such as underbelly coat, banding of colour on the tail, around the eyes. ect. to make a dragon not seem generic you have to make it yours. Hope this helps.


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## Rullenzar (Nov 30, 2012)

If they are human-like, I'd treat them as human society. All shapes and colors with varying personalities and maybe racist to skin colors not of their own. Opens up many doors, you just have to figure out how you want to place the skin colors geographically.


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## Zireael (Nov 30, 2012)

Someone tell me what the crest horn is...

On topic: you can go with a lot of things if you want color to reflect personality. You might, for example, incorporate 4 elements.

I like the idea of mixing colors a lot!


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## Phietadix (Dec 5, 2012)

I am pretty sure the crest horns are the horns the dragon has his head, number of horns, size, shape, and positon on the head vary.


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