# World building questions



## SagaciousFool (Aug 25, 2013)

I read some of Joe Abercrombie's books(First Law Trilogy, Best Served Cold) this winter. I noticed that the author did a very interesting thing, he never showed the reader a map of the story world. I thought this was very interesting and decidedly cool. It creates a real element of mystery. So I think in my novella series I will do the same and let the reader create the world in their mind.

So my question isthen, should I still use a map for world-building purposes knowing that it will never make its way into my story? Or should I just play it by ear?


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## SagaciousFool (Aug 25, 2013)

I guess I only actually had the one question.


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## Saigonnus (Aug 25, 2013)

I personally think having a map; at least behind the scenes, is important. I feel it gives the author a clear image of where things are in relation to other things, how long it takes to get around, and what sort of geography the characters have to work through to do what they need to do. 

Whether you reveal it or not from the get-go is completely up to you, an air of mystery could add something to the world itself, letting the reader form their own image of the world based off how you as the author describe it.


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## Pythagoras (Aug 25, 2013)

I agree with Saigonnus. 

Using a map to help you write your stories will help you keep your world straight as you write, and your readers will probably have an easier time of imagining a more fully developed world. 

Plus, to me at least, drawing maps of my world is just a fun thing to do.


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## ThinkerX (Aug 25, 2013)

Glen Cook went the mapless route with his 'Black Company' series...even though several of his characters either draw or obtain maps at various points.  He's commented that of the many fan maps of that world on the net, most are not even close to how he envisioned the world.

Other authors have done the same: Ann Logston with her 'Shadow' series never produced a map, though some of her characters traveled substantial distances (on the order of a thousand miles).  And this over a good half dozen or more books!  I've thought a few times about attempting a map of her world, but I've no idea how good it would be.

Clark Ashton Smith wrote a series of short stories and novelletes set in 'Zothique', a continent at the end of time.  He made no map, though plenty of fans have tried.  The relevant Wiki shot most of them down.

Overall, yes, you could go this route: but the 'map' envisioned by your readers is likely to differ significantly from YOUR vision.


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## SagaciousFool (Aug 26, 2013)

> Overall, yes, you could go this route: but the 'map' envisioned by your readers is likely to differ significantly from YOUR vision.



That is okay to me. If my story takes place in a type of dark age the world would still be filled with mysterious and wild places.

I just would really like to develop the idea of a mysterious, unfathomable place that is largely wild and undeveloped. I would like the reader seriously questioning whether it is in the past or distant future. I want the type of book that is open to many different interpretations.

I think I will make a map, just for my own purposes. Where should I start?


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## Motley (Aug 26, 2013)

I drew maps for two of my fantasy projects to help me keep track of ecosystem and national borders and distances between places as I wrote.  I never thought to include the map in the finished work. It's enough for my travelers to go northwest for two days in the direction of Holle, for example. I'm not sure why my readers would want to flip over to a map and plot their course.


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## Asterisk (Aug 26, 2013)

> So my question is then, should I still use a map for world-building purposes knowing that it will never make its way into my story? Or should I just play it by ear?



Don't play it by ear. Make a map to keep consistent. I think that even though your readers will never see it, you should have one, even if it's just a sketch or rough draft.



> I think I will make a map, just for my own purposes. Where should I start?



I found some helpful articles online... CREATING A MAP FOR YOUR FANTASY NOVEL | jademphillips
Mapmaking for Fantasy Authors | Fantasy Faction
How to make a map for your novel

Here's some inspiration: The Most Incredible Fantasy Maps You've Ever Seen

Best of luck!


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## Zero Angel (Aug 26, 2013)

SagaciousFool said:


> I read some of Joe Abercrombie's books(First Law Trilogy, Best Served Cold) this winter. I noticed that the author did a very interesting thing, he never showed the reader a map of the story world. I thought this was very interesting and decidedly cool. It creates a real element of mystery. So I think in my novella series I will do the same and let the reader create the world in their mind.
> 
> So my question isthen, should I still use a map for world-building purposes knowing that it will never make its way into my story? Or should I just play it by ear?



You definitely need at least sketches of your world so that it is fixed and unchanging (unless changing is something that happens in the plot). I even have sketches of the Faerie Realms of my world and they are highly mutable. 

Also, although not showing your readers a map is probably fine, there are many people that will cry foul, especially if your stories take place over large areas. Instead of showing a huge official map, maybe consider showing regional maps such as the characters might gain access to (and may be flawed or skewed).


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## Snowpoint (Aug 26, 2013)

You can't draw a map for a book not yet written. finish the first book then make a map that allows for what you have done.


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## Nihal (Aug 26, 2013)

Snowpoint said:


> You can't draw a map for a book not yet written. finish the first book then make a map that allows for what you have done.



Why not? The purpose of a map is to outline the land and locate where the each part of the history takes place, not to show off, therefore, a map is incredibly useful to avoid inconsistencies.

If you were saying "Oh, you shouldn't create a cover for your story before writing it" I would understand...


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## Zero Angel (Aug 26, 2013)

Nihal said:


> Why not? The purpose of a map is to outline the land and locate where the each part of the history takes place, not to show off, therefore, a map is incredibly useful to avoid inconsistencies.
> 
> If you were saying "Oh, you shouldn't create a cover for your story before writing it" I would understand...



Agreed...although, if you have a really good cover, you might be able to get some backers or a book deal because although you shouldn't judge a book by its cover, you can definitely sell a book by its cover.


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## Nihal (Aug 26, 2013)

I'm not saying you shouldn't bother to create a good cover. You shouldn't *before* you finish story. You can have fun doing one before finishing if it appeases you, but it shouldn't be a concern for it won't help your writing at all (except as motivation, etc but it's not the point discussed there).

*Covers are important, don't neglect them.* But work on them on the right time.

Now, maps: They help to plan and keep the story concise. They help the writing process. Unless someone can point a good, absolute reason to create them only after finishing the book I can't see why not use something that will help you.


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## SagaciousFool (Aug 26, 2013)

Asterisk said:


> Don't play it by ear. Make a map to keep consistent. I think that even though your readers will never see it, you should have one, even if it's just a sketch or rough draft.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hey, thanks a lot!


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## dhrichards (Aug 27, 2013)

This is really helpful, had not even thought about making/using a map. I guess my question is what snowpoint brings up- do it first or last. I guess I may try first, in pencil....


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## SeverinR (Aug 28, 2013)

Maps are for the writer.

If you set your work aside, will you remember that Satispon is west of Portsmith, or would you think its south? Would you have to sort through all your writing to find its location?

Maps are cool decoration in a book, and in the credits in Game of Thrones, but I don't normally refer back to a map in a book.


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## Ophiucha (Aug 28, 2013)

I don't personally find maps very useful, but then, I'm not very good at _reading_ maps. The greatest thing the internet has given me is Google Maps, with the convenient bullet point directions on the side. Certainly, I understand why they are popular, but I don't see why they are glorified over learning how to blacksmith so you get a better feeling for the sword your main character wields or learning how to draw architecture so you can see what the castle looks like from the _outside _instead of the rigid floor plans that are more common.

They certainly aren't _bad_ references, if you can get a good sense of a place from one, but by no means does an author need one. Particularly since so many authors are not cartographers, do not have a good sense of scale, and seem to create their maps from coffee stains on napkins or fractal generators online instead of based off of notes and the same careful planning that the rest of their worldbuilding gets.


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## Rhizanthella (Sep 7, 2013)

I definitely agree, you should make a map. Unless your story doesnt move around much and you can keep easy track of it in your head. But if it is, say, a whole world or continent, make a map. Perhaps you'll create things/places you never plan to use in the actual story. Thats okay; It'll add realism. Perhaos you'll mention said place somewhere. I'd also recommend you make the map before a book is finished. The map is for you to keep things straight. The map should be made as you brainstorm the story. Or at least brainstormed as you brainstorm. Hmm, that's a lot of storming brains. Be careful.


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## Svrtnsse (Sep 7, 2013)

I think the main thing to take away from this discussion is that it's good to know more than you're sharing with the reader. If you have a map to rely on when writing it helps you avoid inconsistencies and increases your confidence as a writer (you don't have to go back and double check in what direction you wrote your characters traveled).

The same applies for other things as well. Magic, politics, social structures. You don't have to explain it to the reader, but in order to make them believable you need to portray them consistently and accurately and in order to do that you need to know what you're talking about.


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## Devor (Sep 7, 2013)

A lot of readers just like maps.  I know I do.  I think it's fun to look at a map and at a glance see where the events took place, and then wonder at the spots which haven't yet been reached.

For the writer, it's also useful for keeping things consistent.  Your mileage may vary, but I also have found it helpful for brainstorming new and compelling ideas - having it laid out in front of me helps me visualize the plotlines.

To each their own, sure, but I don't see a reason to leave one out.  I mean, so long as you write expecting readers to forget the map as they read, I don't see much of a downside.


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## Ayaka Di'rutia (Sep 9, 2013)

As a reader, I find it annoying sometimes (especially for a longer novel) when an author _doesn't_ include a map.  If you find you cannot simplify your environs and where your characters travel in just the prose, I highly suggest including a map, even if it's just a simple line map, in your story.  I think it makes it more interesting for the reader anyway


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