# Quick word question. Is this word common?



## Trick (Sep 4, 2015)

Hello all,

If you read "a soporific-loaded syringe.", would you know what that meant?

I feel like 'soporific' is relatively common but I've encountered someone who didn't know the meaning and had to rethink my assumption.

Thanks!


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## Ireth (Sep 4, 2015)

I know what it means, but I don't think the word is very common. "Sedative" might be a better choice.


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## Trick (Sep 4, 2015)

I thought about sedative but it seems so mild. I'm looking for a 'knock-out' drug category that doesn't feel out of world. There is modern tech in my world but it has a Victorian feel. IDK... I wish there were more words...


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## Ireth (Sep 4, 2015)

Tranquilizer, maybe?


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## Incanus (Sep 4, 2015)

Trick said:


> If you read "a soporific-loaded syringe.", would you know what that meant?



Most certainly.


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## Trick (Sep 4, 2015)

That is better but has issues too. I originally wrote 'tranq-loaded' but thought that was confusing. 'Tranquilizer-loaded' might be a bit much but I could just go with 'syringe of tranquilizer' maybe. Or just 'tranquilizer syringe.'


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## CupofJoe (Sep 4, 2015)

Soporific definitely has a period feel [Victorian/C19]. And yes I knew what it meant.


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## T.Allen.Smith (Sep 4, 2015)

Let me ask a question to qualify:

Would the POV of this scene think of it as a soporific?

If yes, then I'd probably use the word. I'm guessing the following context (the what happens after it's used) will clarify what a soporific is.


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## Trick (Sep 4, 2015)

T.Allen.Smith said:


> Let me ask a question to qualify:
> 
> Would the POV of this scene think of it as a soporific?
> 
> If yes, then I'd probably use the word. I'm guessing the following context (the what happens after it's used) will clarify what a soporific is.



Yes, he definitely would, which was the original reason I went away from tranquilizer. The only issues I see are that this is literally in the second sentence of the book and the syringe is technically never used. It gets broken and the POV character is forced to improvise (knocking someone out the old fashioned way). I'm not sure how clear it is that the syringe would just have knocked the person out. I think I might need to review the clarity of that situation.

EDIT:

I just realized that I've been thinking of the syringe as Chekhov's gun when in fact it is a red herring... can something be both?


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## Incanus (Sep 4, 2015)

Trick said:


> I just realized that I've been thinking of the syringe as Chekhov's gun when in fact it is a red herring... can something be both?



Maybe it's a mini-macguffin???


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## Gryphos (Sep 4, 2015)

Trick said:


> If you read "a soporific-loaded syringe.", would you know what that meant?



Nope, but in the 21st century the definition would be at the tip of my fingers.


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## T.Allen.Smith (Sep 4, 2015)

If it isn't actually used, why not just write "syringe" and leave it at that with no mention of what it holds.

That's s bit of a shot in the dark without seeing some of the writing though. Maybe it's help if we saw the opening.


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## MineOwnKing (Sep 4, 2015)

I've been to 2 county fairs and 1 state fair and I've never seen that word before.

I know what a suppository is, and also a subcutaneous injection, but ...never heard of soporific... sounds like a new kind of shampoo.


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## psychotick (Sep 4, 2015)

Hi,

Yes I know what a soporific is. I wouldn't have an issue with the phrase for that reason - but it does sound awkward and cubersome. Unless it's used in a technical setting where accuracy is important I might tend to use a more slang term - eg "sleepy time syringe".

Cheers, Greg.


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## Trick (Sep 4, 2015)

Incanus said:


> Maybe it's a mini-macguffin???



It might even be a mini-Accidentally Broke the MacGuffin


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## Trick (Sep 4, 2015)

T.Allen.Smith said:


> If it isn't actually used, why not just write "syringe" and leave it at that with no mention of what it holds.
> 
> That's s bit of a shot in the dark without seeing some of the writing though. Maybe it's help if we saw the opening.



Hahaha. Sorry, I laugh at myself not you. It originally was just 'syringe' and BWFoster advised that I tell what's in it. He thought I was holding back information instead of creating mystery. 

EDIT: (To be fair, it was 'loaded syringe')

Here's the current opening, though it is in a state of hyper-evolution at the moment:

Haimes Dotson clutched a letter in his fists, as the elevator slowed, about to tear the paper to bits. He stuffed it into his jacket’s breast pocket instead, careful to avoid the soporific-loaded syringe. 

He ground his teeth and his jaw popped. Rubbing his face to relieve the pain, he pondered the letter once more; ‘With the greatest remorse, I inform you of my decision to leave Solaris.’ The greatest remorse? Poppycock. How about ‘panic?’ Now, there was a word that fit with Alek leaving the company. ‘Bankruptcy’ was another.

Unacceptable.

Why had Alek given him no other choice? The letter meant he was serious. He was leaving. And Aelos was the only way to keep him here, keep him working… make him a prisoner. No, not a prisoner; a properly-utilized asset.

The magic would be difficult, even dangerous. Alek would need to be unconscious but Haimes had to try. Otherwise, he might as well take the elevator back up, all the way to the roof, and jump off. It would be better than living for an eternity as a beggar. 

*Here's the second half of the opening with a slight edit that explains a bit more. I feel too much:*

Why had Alek given him no other choice? The letter meant he was serious. He was leaving. And an Aelos incantation was the only way to keep him here, keep him working… make him a prisoner. No, not a prisoner; a properly-utilized asset. 

The magic would be difficult, even dangerous. Alek would need to be unconscious but Haimes had to try. Otherwise, he might as well take the elevator back up, all the way to the roof, and jump off. It would be better than living for an eternity as a beggar. 




psychotick said:


> Hi,
> 
> Yes I know what a soporific is. I wouldn't have an issue with the phrase for that reason - but it does sound awkward and cubersome. Unless it's used in a technical setting where accuracy is important I might tend to use a more slang term - eg "sleepy time syringe".
> 
> Cheers, Greg.



That might work but the POV is a scientist/business man. I'll have to think about possible nicknames.


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## Mythopoet (Sep 4, 2015)

Trick said:


> Haimes Dotson clutched a letter in his fists, as the elevator slowed, about to tear the paper to bits. He stuffed it into his jacket’s breast pocket instead, careful to avoid the soporific-loaded syringe.




I think it works and I think it's better to have that detail here than not. However, just so you know, the construction of the first sentence makes it sound like the elevator is about to tear the paper to bits. I would put "As the elevator slowed" at the beginning of the sentence.


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## Trick (Sep 4, 2015)

Mythopoet said:


> I think it works and I think it's better to have that detail here than not. However, just so you know, the construction of the first sentence makes it sound like the elevator is about to tear the paper to bits. I would put "As the elevator slowed" at the beginning of the sentence.



Thanks Mythopoet. I thought so but I'd hate to add detail that is actually just confusing. 

On the sentence construction, you're right. I've re-written that sentence so many times it feels like mush. One iteration had Haimes stuffing the elevator in his pocket 

Any thoughts on me explaining his intentions, and thus the syringe's contents, in the second version: "The magic would be difficult, even dangerous. Alek would need to be unconscious but Haimes had to try."  ?


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## Penpilot (Sep 4, 2015)

I didn't know what soporific meant. There might be more ignorance on my part on this, so forgive me if I'm off base. Writing wise, to me, reading the dictionary definition, I expected it to be a specific name for drug, not a broad term that could mean one of many different sedatives. The addition of the word didn't give me too much more information than just saying syringe.

To me, it would work better if you named a specific drug, because the character knows what it is, so there's no reason to be coy. It's like if someone ask you what are you drinking and points to your cup, and you answer soda. Then they ask what kind of soda, and you say sweet soda. Then it becomes for gosh sake why can't you just tell me if it's Coke, Pepsi, 7-Up, etc. and we can save our selves some breath.

Any way that's my 2cents.

PS. naming a specific drug also adds to the world and brings it into clearer focus. Soporific is a vague word like car. When you say someone drives a car, it doesn't tell us much beyond the obvious. But if you say someone drives a Ferrari or a '76 Pinto. It tells us more than just the obvious.


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## Trick (Sep 4, 2015)

Penpilot said:


> I didn't know what soporific meant. There might be more ignorance on my part on this, so forgive me if I'm off base. Writing wise, to me, reading the dictionary definition, I expected it to be a specific name for drug, not a broad term that could mean one of many different sedatives. The addition of the word didn't give me too much more information than just saying syringe.
> 
> To me, it would work better if you named a specific drug, because the character knows what it is, so there's no reason to be coy. It's like if someone ask you what are you drinking and points to your cup, and you answer soda. Then they ask what kind of soda, and you say sweet soda. Then it becomes for gosh sake why can't you just tell me if it's Coke, Pepsi, 7-Up, etc. and we can save our selves some breath.
> 
> Any way that's my 2cents.



When it just says syringe, it might give the impression of poison. At least, that's my thought. 

And the issue with using drug names is that this is not on earth so I'd have to make up a name, which doesn't add clarity. It would be like you asking about what I'm drinking and I say 'Flula' and then you'd still be like, what's that?

I tried to think of a clever name for a poppy derivative but the one I like best, red flower, has already been used in a popular fantasy series.


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## T.Allen.Smith (Sep 4, 2015)

I'm going to disagree with Mythopoet & BWF. I understand where they're coming from, but I think "loaded syringe" works better because it makes the reader ask an immediate question:

What's in the syringe?

That's a nice little hook that keeps me reading to the point where you talk about needing the victim unconscious for a magic ritual of some sort. That raises the next question. Now I want to know, "What kind of magic?"

That, in my opinion, is a well-timed and written string of questions that continually pique my interest and then give me some payoff, just in time for the next raise in my curiosity.

But, of course, you know from past critiques I'm the "less is more" type.

I like PenPilot's idea, but calling it Hydroxyzine doesn't help much. Might as well call it a soporific at that point.

I have a feeling that all these contrary opinions may only make your choice more difficult. 

I like this excerpt. Keep at it.


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## Trick (Sep 4, 2015)

T.Allen.Smith said:


> I'm going to disagree with Mythopoet & BWF. I understand where they're coming from, but I think "loaded syringe" works better because it makes the reader ask an immediate question:
> 
> What's in the syringe?



That's what I said. Boy, I'm glad I'm not crazy.



> I like this excerpt. Keep at it.



Thanks for this. It's been a bear. BWF has HELPED me get it more tense, ALL CAPS intentional, but I don't want to go outside my own likes and dislikes. 



> I have a feeling that all these contrary opinions may only make your choice more difficult.



Yes and no. If I think one way works better and others agree, it helps me know that I'm not way off base.


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## Incanus (Sep 4, 2015)

Trick said:


> Boy, I'm glad I'm not crazy.



Of course, you still might very well be--just not for _this_ reason...


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## Penpilot (Sep 4, 2015)

Trick said:


> And the issue with using drug names is that this is not on earth so I'd have to make up a name, which doesn't add clarity. It would be like you asking about what I'm drinking and I say 'Flula' and then you'd still be like, what's that?



To me, I see two ways to address this. First, you can find a way to introduce the point that say "Flula" is a sedative earlier on in the story. Second, you could give it a descriptive nickname. Flula-filled syringe. Flula, common street name, the deep slumber. I mean even in our world, I bet there are people who don't know what amphetamine is. But when you call it by it's street name, Speed, it doesn't matter because the name says enough.


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## psychotick (Sep 5, 2015)

Hi,

Just a thought:

"Haimes Dotson clutched a letter in his fists,wanting nothing more than to tear the paper to bits. But as the elevator slowed he mastered his emotions and stuffed it into his jacket’s breast pocket instead, careful to avoid the syringe loaded with sleepy time juice."

By the way - why is the syringe uncapped? You never leave them uncapped.

Cheers, Greg.


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## Trick (Sep 5, 2015)

Penpilot said:


> To me, I see two ways to address this. First, you can find a way to introduce the point that say "Flula" is a sedative earlier on in the story. Second, you could give it a descriptive nickname. Flula-filled syringe. Flula, common street name, the deep slumber. I mean even in our world, I bet there are people who don't know what amphetamine is. But when you call it by it's street name, Speed, it doesn't matter because the name says enough.


This syringe is in the second sentence of the book. I agree with you otherwise but there is simply no 'earlier on in the story.'

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


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## Trick (Sep 5, 2015)

psychotick said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just a thought:
> 
> ...


The character would not call it that. But a more... doctorly slang term would work. 

This book is Victorian in style, with a very recent, very extreme burst of technology.  Capping syringes is far more recent than syringes themselves so I think it fits. 

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


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## skip.knox (Sep 5, 2015)

I had a problem with "soporific-loaded" from the start because the word is an adjective, not a noun. How do you load a syringe with an adjective? OTOH, no one else seems to have had that issue, so perhaps it's just me.

[Aside: did you ever notice that whenever someone says it's a quick question, the answers never are?]


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## Penpilot (Sep 5, 2015)

skip.knox said:


> [Aside: did you ever notice that whenever someone says it's a quick question, the answers never are?]



Expecting a writer to be terse with their answers is like expecting a child to goto willingly to sleep exactly at their bed time.


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## Svrtnsse (Sep 5, 2015)

Penpilot said:


> Expecting a writer to be terse with their answers is like expecting a child to goto willingly to sleep exactly at their bed time.



What do you mean? I always did that when I was little. 
Now though. Kids these days I tell you.


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## FifthView (Sep 5, 2015)

I think it's good to name/describe what's in the syringe in the second sentence.  There is still mystery because, for a short bit thereafter, the question of why he'd have the syringe in his pocket lingers in the reader's mind.

I did have a slight stumble/fumble with the fact that "Rubbing his face to relieve the pain" is mentioned so soon after introduction of the syringe.  It led me, for that span, to think that maybe the syringe was for himself.  (I.e., a self-medicating doctor.)  Perhaps a jaw condition keeps him from being able to sleep well? —etc.

The construction you are using for the syringe is a little cumbersome.  Couldn't you revise how you deliver that information, maybe to something like:

Haimes Dotson clutched a letter in his fists, as the elevator slowed, about to tear the paper to bits. He stuffed it into his jacket’s breast pocket instead, careful to avoid the syringe with the soporific beading at its tip.​
—well, two "it" appearances might be slightly confusing, but you get the idea.


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## T.Allen.Smith (Sep 5, 2015)

FifthView said:


> Haimes Dotson clutched a letter in his fists, as the elevator slowed, about to tear the paper to bits. He stuffed it into his jacket's breast pocket instead, careful to avoid the syringe with the soporific beading at its tip.


But, then we'd have a POV issue. If the syringe is in his pocket, how can he see liquid beading on the needle's tip?

I know what you mean, though. Just picking nits. 

This writing gig sure can be hard.


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## FifthView (Sep 5, 2015)

T.Allen.Smith said:


> But, then we'd have a POV issue. If the syringe is in his pocket, how can he see liquid beading on the needle's tip?
> 
> I know what you mean, though. Just picking nits.
> 
> This writing gig sure can be hard.



Ah true, but he may know it's beading there, from when he put it in his pocket.  (I.e., a constant state may be 'seen' or known to exist already.)  [This is called nit-jujitsu. Or not, hah.]


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## Trick (Sep 7, 2015)

skip.knox said:


> I had a problem with "soporific-loaded" from the start because the word is an adjective, not a noun. How do you load a syringe with an adjective? OTOH, no one else seems to have had that issue, so perhaps it's just me.
> 
> [Aside: did you ever notice that whenever someone says it's a quick question, the answers never are?]



It's also a noun:

sopÂ·oÂ·rifÂ·ic
ˌsÃ¤pəˈrifik/Submit

*adjective*

1.
tending to induce drowsiness or sleep.
"the motion of the train had a somewhat soporific effect"

*noun*

1.
a drug or other agent that induces sleep.
synonyms:	sleeping pill, sedative, calmative, tranquilizer, narcotic, opiate; hypnotic
"she was given a soporific"



FifthView said:


> I think it's good to name/describe what's in the syringe in the second sentence.  There is still mystery because, for a short bit thereafter, the question of why he'd have the syringe in his pocket lingers in the reader's mind.
> 
> I did have a slight stumble/fumble with the fact that "Rubbing his face to relieve the pain" is mentioned so soon after introduction of the syringe.  It led me, for that span, to think that maybe the syringe was for himself.  (I.e., a self-medicating doctor.)  Perhaps a jaw condition keeps him from being able to sleep well? —etc.



I think I've decided to leave just 'loaded syringe' and then let the PoV's angst about using it on his friend carry the reader to the next question.

Good point on the 'relieve the pain' bit. I've cut it to just 'Rubbing his face,' which should remove the confusion.




T.Allen.Smith said:


> But, then we'd have a POV issue. If the syringe is in his pocket, how can he see liquid beading on the needle's tip?
> 
> I know what you mean, though. Just picking nits.
> 
> This writing gig sure can be hard.



More than that, if liquid was beading at the tip of the needle in his pocket it would get absorbed by the fabric.


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## Trick (Sep 7, 2015)

Thanks to all who helped answer my question. If you're interested, I've posted the newest version of this piece in the showcase, under Darkling Sun - Prologue. There are several old versions in there so please skip those and just read the newest. I'd love some thoughts, opinions, suggestions and, most of all, brutal honesty.


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## BWFoster78 (Sep 11, 2015)

> Hahaha. Sorry, I laugh at myself not you. It originally was just 'syringe' and BWFoster advised that I tell what's in it. He thought I was holding back information instead of creating mystery.



The context of my comment wasn't to actually tell the reader what was in the syringe as much as it was to clearly indicate the POV's intent to use the syringe to knock out the other character.

Note that introducing a syringe and not telling it's contents isn't a problem. The issue is that there was no tension in the scene as it was written.  I simply was trying to have you use the syringe to introduce tension.


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## Asura Levi (Sep 11, 2015)

I would have to take its meaning from the context. But then again, English is not my first language, only being using for the past 8 years (more heavily on the past 3). 
I suppose it's one of the thousands common words that I just didn't had the pleasure to met before, so hooray, +1 word added to dictionary, thanks.


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## Trick (Sep 11, 2015)

BWFoster78 said:


> The context of my comment wasn't to actually tell the reader what was in the syringe as much as it was to clearly indicate the POV's intent to use the syringe to knock out the other character.
> 
> Note that introducing a syringe and not telling it's contents isn't a problem. The issue is that there was no tension in the scene as it was written.  I simply was trying to have you use the syringe to introduce tension.



Fair enough. I probably mixed up the reason for that comment with the reason for another. The end result was showing the intent of the syringe more clearly, which worked out great, so thanks!


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