# Naming Beasts



## Mindfire (Nov 23, 2012)

Exactly how much latitude do you get when you use an old term in a new sense? For example, if I created a species of  giant, terrible, man-eating, but non-chimerical cats, could I get away with calling them "manticores"? I'm thinking probably not. They're basically saber-toothed tigers, but that's not exactly a catchy name. It's too long. I'd like to boil it down to a single word. Smilodon? Panther? Liger? Suggestions?


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## Ireth (Nov 23, 2012)

I wouldn't use panther or liger, as those are names for existing animals. Smilodon could work, or you could make up a new word for them. If nothing else, I'd try looking up words to describe your cat-beasts in various languages and smushing them together.


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## Saigonnus (Nov 23, 2012)

I guess it would really depend on the intelligence level and sophistication of the society that directly deals with them... A caveman archetype would likely call them something simple like "Longteeth"; something that accurately describes the most obvious characteristic of the animal. "Render" or "Biter" could work too. 

For a more advanced culture (though not modern), I would think a more scientific name would be used like smilodon or sword-tooth cat; (maybe shortened to swordtooth).  

I also want to mention that different cultures often have different names for the same thing. If the principal culture has a "sound" to the names of places, people etc, it would stand to reason that the animals would likewise have names with that sound.

Another option is to name it after the person who discovered them first... Rivgorn's Cat or some such.


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## Zero Angel (Nov 23, 2012)

I think you can get away with calling them manticores. Video games reuse famous monster names all the time. You can even have a nod towards the legend. Maybe they are poisonous or are known to prey on elephants AND porcupines


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## Anders Ã„mting (Nov 24, 2012)

Well, you can totally get away with manticore - I doubt anyone will object much. Question is how much it makes sense when you really think about it and how much you care about that.

The word manticore comes from the Persian _martyaxwa_, which literally means "man eater." So, unless there is an ancient Persia in your setting, the question is where the word came from, and why they aren't just called man eaters.

See, unless they've been around for so long that their name is in a different language, or they are literally named after some kind of mythological being, most ordinary people would just call it something brief, simple and fitting. (Like man eaters, because they freaking eat people.) For saber-toothed tigers, I personally like the Skyrim term "saber cat", because that's pretty much what they are.

Alternatively, how about dire cats? (Or direcats.)


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## Wanara009 (Nov 24, 2012)

you might also consider the beast's local name. Usually when travelers from another land see a new beast, they usually make name for it themseleves based on their own language. Also, you can afford to make the name as meaningful as possible, usually relate them to the experience people have with it.

I agree with Anders about the mother language. You should probably have a Persian-based language.

For Example: my world features an large, shrieking, dangerously-aggressive horned beasts that attack every other creature on sight. The Westerners called it "Direceratops" (which denote its size, the two horns, and what kind of situation you'll be in if you meet one). However, the people around where it lives simply calls it "Yaamaut" (Short of Yaasu khu lmaut, which mean 'Screaming Death').

(p.s.: Thumbs up on Anders again. I got into a blood-rage every time someone call saber-toothed cat "sabre-tooth tiger"  )


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## Mindfire (Nov 24, 2012)

Wanara009 said:


> you might also consider the beast's local name. Usually when travelers from another land see a new beast, they usually make name for it themseleves based on their own language. Also, you can afford to make the name as meaningful as possible, usually relate them to the experience people have with it.
> 
> I agree with Anders about the mother language. You should probably have a Persian-based language.
> 
> ...




You must have hated Power Rangers.


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## Shockley (Nov 24, 2012)

The general consensus, from what I've always been led to understand, is that the manticore was just a warped, European misunderstanding of the tiger.

 So you're clear from that perspective.


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## Zero Angel (Nov 25, 2012)

So I don't know exactly what Mindfire had in mind when he posted originally, but I think this topic would apply for any term that has been used for other things that you want to use for your own maybe tangentially related thing but not really recognizable as the original thing thing.

 in the fantasy public mind now, manticores are the legendary beast, sometimes even with wings, not the medieval bestiary for normal creature misunderstood by the scholars of the time. Just like Baphomet is a goat-headed demon instead of the prophet Muhammad and fantasy salamanders have fire powers.

That's my take on it anyway.

But yes, as far as your general consensus from what you've been led to understand, yes. At least, the extensive research I've done into the subject has supported the tiger origin rather conclusively.


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## psychotick (Nov 25, 2012)

Hi,

Actually, having played Neverwinter, a lot, I'd think that manticore might not fit. No wings, no scorpion tail etc. My thought would be to go for calling it some kind of cat. Considering its fangs I might be considered to work the dentition into its name. I'm guessing 'sabre' is out. But some other kind of pointy weapon? - lance cat, spear cat, pike cat.

Cheers, Greg.


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## Shockley (Nov 25, 2012)

Maybe this comes from growing up in the empty part of Texas, but I'd imagine something called a 'Pike Cat' as a fish.


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## psychotick (Nov 25, 2012)

Hi Shockley,

Would that be a cat fish?!

But had another idea anyway. This critter has two great big spikes in its mouth - so why not call it a spiker?

Cheers, Greg.


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## Mindfire (Nov 28, 2012)

I'm thinking I might go with manticore, mantak, or hellcat. Opinions?


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## Ireth (Nov 28, 2012)

Out of the three, I like mantak the best. "Hellcat" strikes me as jarring, especially if this story involves a culture with nothing like a typical (Judeo-Christian?) idea of hell.


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## Mindfire (Nov 28, 2012)

Ireth said:


> Out of the three, I like mantak the best. "Hellcat" strikes me as jarring, especially if this story involves a culture with nothing like a typical (Judeo-Christian?) idea of hell.



You're right, hellcat does strike me as rather lazy now. Mantak it is then. Not 100% pleased with it, but I'll use it as a placeholder for now.


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## SeverinR (Nov 29, 2012)

Ireth said:


> I wouldn't use panther or --liger--, as those are names for existing animals. Smilodon could work, or you could make up a new word for them. If nothing else, I'd try looking up words to describe your cat-beasts in various languages and smushing them together.



"Deb: What's a liger?
Napoleon Dynamite: It's pretty much my favorite animal. It's like a lion and a tiger mixed... bred for its skills in magic. "

http://www.moviefanatic.com/quotes/what-are-you-drawing-a-liger-whats-a-liger-its-pretty-much-my-fa/

Mantak was my fave.


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## Mindfire (Nov 29, 2012)

SeverinR said:


> "Deb: What's a liger?
> Napoleon Dynamite: It's pretty much my favorite animal. It's like a lion and a tiger mixed... bred for its skills in magic. "
> 
> What are you drawing? A liger. What's a liger? It's prett... - Movie Fanatic
> ...



Ugh, it's _that_ movie. -_-


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## Devor (Nov 29, 2012)

Zero Angel said:


> in the fantasy public mind now, manticores are the legendary beast, sometimes even with wings, not the medieval bestiary for normal creature misunderstood by the scholars of the time.



That's certainly the _norm_, but you don't have to use the norms.  If it's a real departure, maybe you could hang a lampshade on it.

"That's a manticore?  But it looks so . . . normal."

The important thing is more about context than concept.  Would it feel out of place _in your world_ for a manticore to feel like a normal sabre-toothed cat?

Mindfire, if I remember right from some of your previous posts, I get the feeling you use a lot of these creatures, and that this one fits right in.  So unless you're using legendary manticore-status creatures _ontop_ of these slightly-enhanced ones (like griffins and hydras and unicorns), then probably it should be easy enough for you to avoid the legendary expectation-and-letdown which you might otherwise get from using the word manticore.

((edit))

I seem to have missed the second page of the conversation.  I don't like mantak.  Seems like a waste of a new word to me.

You could try a name that refer to the teeth's other qualities - like their value as ivory, the beautiful sculptures that can be carved from them and the life-changing fortune you can make from killing one.  That might give it more depth.  But I'm coming up short on examples, I'm afraid.


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## Mindfire (Nov 29, 2012)

Devor said:


> That's certainly the _norm_, but you don't have to use the norms.  If it's a real departure, maybe you could hang a lampshade on it.
> 
> "That's a manticore?  But it looks so . . . normal."
> 
> ...



Yeah, I'm not 100% sold on mantak either, honestly. But it's the best placeholder I've got for now. However, you have a point. I have "reinvented" other creatures of stock fantasy and myth: the harpy, which I've made into a hideous man-bat creature, direwolves, which I've given magical powers, and the unicorn, which I've given a new origin, a slightly different appearance, and even an alternate name. So perhaps "manticore" isn't so out of place after all?


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## Steerpike (Nov 29, 2012)

Easier if you're writing about a more primitive culture. You could just use descriptive phrases:

"Thing with big teeth."

"Thing that run fast."

"Thing that eat Thag"

And so on.


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## Mindfire (Nov 29, 2012)

Steerpike said:


> Easier if you're writing about a more primitive culture. You could just use descriptive phrases:
> 
> "Thing with big teeth."
> 
> ...



Interesting idea... until you have to refer to them collectively. Then it gets awkward. Also, while the culture is primitive, they're quite intelligent. And they also vaguely resemble Native Americans, so... yeah. I'd like to stay away from that trope.


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## Zireael (Nov 30, 2012)

Steerpike said:


> Easier if you're writing about a more primitive culture. You could just use descriptive phrases:
> 
> "Thing with big teeth."
> 
> ...



This is a cool idea. It can be used even if you don't want to use plain English for names, just find a Native American dictionary of some sort...


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## Rullenzar (Dec 1, 2012)

Like someone said earlier, it would depend on the sophistication of your society. Caveman types could use names such as Sharp-Tooth/Giant-Tooth/Large-Claw etc... Where as a more intelligent society may refer to them by a more general name that we are used to.


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## Zero Angel (Dec 1, 2012)

Rullenzar said:


> Like someone said earlier, it would depend on the sophistication of your society. Caveman types could use names such as Sharp-Tooth/Giant-Tooth/Large-Claw etc... Where as a more intelligent society may refer to them by a more general name that we are used to.



...to be fair to so-called "primitive cultures", it's not like our names have ever really progressed much past this point. We just say them in Latin or another language so they sound cooler...and it doesn't just apply to species, we do the same thing for towns, tools and mathematical principles!

In fact, it's rare that we don't name something in this manner.


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## ALB2012 (Dec 1, 2012)

Rullenzar said:


> Like someone said earlier, it would depend on the sophistication of your society. Caveman types could use names such as Sharp-Tooth/Giant-Tooth/Large-Claw etc... Where as a more intelligent society may refer to them by a more general name that we are used to.



At least with the simple names you know what you get- Sabre-toothed cat- images of large fierce feline with a mouth full of blades and not to be messed with.

Thylacosmilus- sounds a bit nicer doesn't it Skull is second from the left in the pictures on the wiki page
Saber-toothed cat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not your average pussy cat.


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