# Why Must There Be Humans...?



## DragonOfTheAerie (Jul 27, 2016)

Here to share a conundrum i have been struggling with for some time, and to hopefully spark some discussion. 

Many fantasy stories include various non-human races/humanoid species, such as elves, dwarves, goblins, fae, etc. My work in progress includes several such humanoid species, but they of my own invention, not based in mythology. One race has feathered wings and dwells in flying cities , one has bright, multi-colored skin and lives for tens of thousands of years, one has gills, hairless skin like a dolphin's and lives underwater, and there are several others. I enjoy coming up with these different races and developing their cultures and views of the world. However...

My main characters are all human. (At the start of the story, anyway. Later on the nonhumans take a much larger role.) There's nothing wrong with this, but I'm not happy with the fact that there are humans. This is a fantasy world. Why must there be humans? I've always been puzzled that in every fantasy story with imaginary nonhuman races, there are also humans living alongside. My world has no connection to ours and is, other than the humans, free of creatures found on earth. It makes sense that there wouldn't be any humans, only the imaginary races i've created. The humans don't seem to fit in with the rest of the races. My races are each basically like humans with something added (wings, gills, ability to use photosynthesis...) while the humans are just humans, with no special qualities to distinguish them. Why should they qualify as a race? 

This question doesn't seem to bother other writers, but it bothers me. I'm not about to make my human characters nonhumans--this would derail the plot, and anyway, my characters barely tolerate changes in hair color let alone species. Perhaps humans are the evolutionary ancestor of the races--but this raises questions, such as, why do they still exist? Perhaps they're the result of cross-breeding between races--but this is a clumsy explanation that doesn't make much sense. 

Part of the main premise of the story is that civilization was largely wiped out, and many of the races i mentioned above went extinct. A few held on just barely, but the society they had once occupied was replaced by a  new society in which humans were slaves to another race (unrelated to the others, not sure yet what they are exactly--it's complicated) and treated like dirt basically. So, did this ruling race somehow "create" the ideal slave? Did they remove the races' unique characteristics to make them easier to control? Does that sound like i'm trying to make excuses so i don't have to write nonhuman main characters? (I sort of am.) 

Also, why must there be humans in any fantasy story in general? Wouldn't a story from the POV of an elf or dragon be interesting? 

So...thoughts?


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## WooHooMan (Jul 27, 2016)

Traditionally: Dwarves represent industry, Elves represent high culture and Hobbits represent simplicity.  Three ways a person can live.
In Star Trek: Klingons represent honor, Vulcans represent logic and the Borg represent conformity.  Three virtues to live by.

In fantasy fiction, we use these races to demonstrate aspects of humanity.  We learn about humanity by interacting with beings who showcase distilled traits of humanity.  And then we use humans to represent ourselves as it's easy for us to identify with them because they encompass the whole of our existence rather than specific virtues, traits or lifestyles.

So, there's your answer, I guess.

Your bird people and dolphin people are all well and good but what do they tell me about the human condition?  What does it mean to exist as a dolphin-man?  How can I as a human relate to a dolphin-man?
I can relate to a Klingon not because I live in a hostile environment full of violence and bloody rituals but instead I relate to them because I value honor.  I know what it means to live as a Vulcan because I've been in scenarios were logic was seemingly all that matters.  These two people and how they interact with humans demonstrates what value there is in honor and logic.

I'm kind of rambling.  Is this making sense?


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## Queshire (Jul 27, 2016)

Most readers tend to be human. Most writers too.


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## Ireth (Jul 27, 2016)

If you don't like the fact that your MCs are human (which seems to be the case; correct me if I'm inferring wrongly), why not change them to something else? What do they, as humans, bring to the story that someone of another race can't?

I think many authors use humans in their stories because, well, Most Writers Are Human. It gives us something we can relate to a little more on a physical level than we can with an elf or a dragon. We don't know what it's like to fly with wings or live for thousands of years, but we know the struggles related to human aging and the limitations of our bodies. Relation on an emotional level is something else entirely, and is completely possible with non-human characters, IMO.

I have a few stories with non-humans as MCs (vampires, Fae and merpeople) and humans as mostly supporting characters, but only one of those (which is little more than a premise and a rough half-page of text right now) does away with humanity entirely, focusing instead on a pack of sentient wolves in a world where humans have never existed.


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## skip.knox (Jul 27, 2016)

I have stories with non-human characters. One has a sprite and an ogre as the leads. There are not, I agree, many such that are full-length novels that sell well. Probably has something to do with the audience.


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## Malik (Jul 27, 2016)

We're often put in for the reasons stated above.

Something I don't see, though -- and I wish I did -- are the ideas stated here, that we may actually be the most hideous and terrifying species in the universe: a highly intelligent, hyper-specialized pursuit predator that can survive traumatic dismemberment and even perform surgery on itself in a pinch. 

We can keep fighting after extreme trauma -- all it does is make us mad (evidenced by the number of soldiers who have endured multiple wounds and kept returning fire) -- and by other animals' standards, a physically fit human seems to never get tired. The only animal that can hang with us in a marathon is the dog, which may likely be why we chose them as hunting partners long ago.

I particularly like to reflect on these kinds of thoughts when I'm boxing, or lifting weights, or out for an hour-long run to "take the edge off." I scare the hell out of me on a good day.


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## Heliotrope (Jul 27, 2016)

I've thought of this as well... and I'm going to probably start a debate here, but I actually (as a reader) cannot read anything that does not have a humanoid species in it. 

I know. Strange. The Hobbit was cutting it close for me, even as a kid. I did not identify with Bilbo at all. But Gandolf was extraordinary for me and the only reason I kept reading. Am I prejudice perhaps? I don't know. The Lord of the Rings was easier for me because there were more humans. Any book I find on the shelf that is only creatures (including animal stories) I just for some reason really struggle with getting into. 

So that's why I always include humans.


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## Ireth (Jul 27, 2016)

Heliotrope said:


> The Hobbit was cutting it close for me, even as a kid. I did not identify with Bilbo at all. But Gandolf was extraordinary for me and the only reason I kept reading.



That's interesting, and a bit ironic if you think about it in terms of the world these characters live in. Hobbits are technically a subgroup of Men (i.e. humans), and Gandalf wasn't even human at all, but an angel who merely took on mortal flesh.


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## La Volpe (Jul 28, 2016)

Malik said:


> We're often put in for the reasons stated above.
> 
> Something I don't see, though -- and I wish I did -- are the ideas stated here, that we may actually be the most hideous and terrifying species in the universe: a highly intelligent, hyper-specialized pursuit predator that can survive traumatic dismemberment and even perform surgery on itself in a pinch.
> 
> ...



Man, I was about to say that just because people are used to the special traits of humans, it doesn't make them less special. I wanted to mention that we have really good endurance for long distance running (most other animals are sprinters), and that our ability to sweat is a massive part of that, since we can cool down more effectively than most other mammals.

But you've mentioned everything and more. That link lists a whole bunch of other things that. Thanks for the link, Malik; very entertaining to read.
--
And regarding why there are humans in stories: I like having humans in stories. Especially in fantasy, humans are often weaker than the others, but the fact that they still survive and manage to have cities makes them all the more interesting. They're the underdog incarnate.

Generally this results in huge amounts of courage, honour and innovative battle techniques. Other races (especially long lived ones) generally represent very rigid traditions and strategies, and find the ever-fluid humans to be baffling and hard to understand. And I absolutely love every moment of it.

And on a more personal note, I like seeing humans in books because I like rooting for them. I feel pride in my own species when I read about humans managing to defeat the elves invading their city.


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## Deleted member 4265 (Jul 28, 2016)

I don't think there have to be humans, but I do think there has to be anthropomorphic species. In order to empathize we have to understand the character, and being humans most people find it very difficult to grasp how any other species would think. So if in order for us to understand the characters in a story, they must possess certain human qualities, why not just make them human? Again I don't think they have to be, I have actually written several that if non, completely devoid of humans, have casts comprised mostly of non-humans but at their base if you took away the trappings, they still think very much like humans. Sure they're immortal and so they lack human impatience and have an obsession with trying to understand why other things fade, they have vastly different mating rituals and culture but they still feel human emotions and have concerns the reader can identify with.

If you're going to create a truly alien race (in the way that they perceive the world) in order to make the audience empathize I think you still need an anthropomorphic character to be the lens. For example my story has a nonhuman race who have no concept of self preservation or individuality. They accept that their race is dying but they don't care. They function very much as a collective. From the outside perspective this can be fascinating, but do you really want to read a book where the main character literally does not care when his entire family is slaughtered and never questions what their ruler tells them, never thinks about their own personal gain and has no concept of want. My point is if I told my story from that characters perspective it would be really boring.


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## skip.knox (Jul 28, 2016)

I've mentioned this one before, but it's relevant. If elves are truly going to be different from humans, then at some level they must be fundamentally not understandable by humans. Their motivations must be alien if not actually repugnant. Same goes for any non-human people. 

But, as others have pointed out, our readers are humans, not elves. So, if we have a story peopled entirely by non-humans, it becomes extremely difficult to write a convincing (to a human) story. Motivations, emotions, actions, will all be to some degree cryptic or even nonsensical. Moreover, they will take for granted cultural cues that the human reader will not understand.

This is why so many non-human characters in fantasy are more or less human beings with some physical and cultural exaggerations. Science fiction writers face the same challenge. Write a true alien and your reader will have a hard time identifying. Write *only* true aliens and the story verges on the incomprehensible. The same problem applies also to stories about gods and angels and demons. 

The above is not a criticism, just an observation. And of course none of it keeps anyone from actually writing about any of this.


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## Penpilot (Jul 28, 2016)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> Also, why must there be humans in any fantasy story in general? Wouldn't a story from the POV of an elf or dragon be interesting?
> 
> So...thoughts?



I don't think there has to be humans at all. I've read stories, not in fantasy or at least none I can remember, that have main characters that are not human at all. I remember reading a story told from a alien POV, and getting into the alien's thoughts was very weird. The way they thought and perceived the world was well... alien.

It was very interesting BUT at the same time there was a barrier that made it difficult to engage/connect with the story.

Which brings me to the point others have mentioned. Humans are a conduit for the reader to access the story. If you really think about it, generally, elves, dwarves, or even dragons are just humans with different anatomy. They have emotions the same as humans they see the world like humans.

The reason for this? As I mentioned, it's pretty hard writing and getting into a story with a completely alien mindset. Stories are reflections of us, humans. They say things about us as a whole. They explore our ideals, our values, the darkest and the lightest parts of what makes us human.

But sometimes in order to do that we have to change the context in order for people to be receptive to exploring some complex ideas or to see things from a different side.

Any way, like I said, there don't have to be humans in stories, but giving someone pointy ears and calling them a smerp doesn't make them any less human if they have emotions like humans and act like humans.


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## Malik (Jul 28, 2016)

skip.knox said:


> I've mentioned this one before, but it's relevant. If elves are truly going to be different from humans, then at some level they must be fundamentally not understandable by humans. Their motivations must be alien if not actually repugnant. Same goes for any non-human people.



I abhor reading about elves who are tall sexy superhumans. WOW murdered elves for me forever and apparently I'm not alone on this. 

I developed my elves with fangs, tan skin, and predator-striped hair -- they're feral forest creatures, and I've done enough bowhunting to know what forest predators look like -- then built an entire Faerie conlang defining their weltanschauung and I'm a little drunk but I'm fairly sure I'm the first one to use that word on these boards. Ultimately I scrapped the conlang and its accent, which was built off the conlang by employing intentional misuse of contraction and misspellings as well as the occasional italicized Faerie word for which there was no English – or human – translation, and which made an unreadable mess of my dialogue although it looked really cool.

After I scrapped the conlang, I still kept an identifiable linguistic stand-off from English, replete with an accent and a derivation of our language to reflect their outlook on our world. Details on my blog, but in a nutshell it's E' with an expanded choriambic nucleus, which is a rhyme scheme from Classical Greek poetry that was Romanized in some fairly obscure but beautiful English poetry. This gives the Faerie a grammatical framework unique to a long-lived species, in a musical, lilting dialect that separates it from English when you read it. Because I'm crazy, but not crazy enough to do an entire novel in a conlang. But I believe that languages frame ideas; the Faerie think differently, therefore they speak differently, and vice versa. 

Anyway, since they speak differently, their ideas -- and more importantly, their expressions of ideas -- are tangential to ours but slightly weird.

I also did a whole thing with meta-ethical vs. normative moral relativism in a foreign universe for the humans in general, but I'm way too drunk to get into that right now and you'll really have to read the whole series to get it if I do it right.

But yeah. Again, I've been drinking, but generally: screw elves.


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## Miskatonic (Jul 28, 2016)

Even if you have non-human characters, you still have to deal with whether or not they think like humans do. You could have a race of some animal humanoid-type but if they have a culture, governmental structure, laws and other things that are quite similar to humans then you are basically just putting a superficial change in place to make it look as if you have done something radically different.


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## skip.knox (Jul 28, 2016)

@Malik, while I'm not sure about Weltanschauung, I'd bet actual shekels that it's the first time we've seen "expanded choriambic nucleus"


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## Malik (Jul 28, 2016)

skip.knox said:


> @Malik, while I'm not sure about Weltanschauung, I'd bet actual shekels that it's the first time we've seen "expanded choriambic nucleus"



It was that kind of a night.


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## Charles Parkes (Jul 29, 2016)

WooHooMan said:


> Traditionally: Dwarves represent industry, Elves represent high culture and Hobbits represent simplicity.  Three ways a person can live.
> In Star Trek: Klingons represent honor, Vulcans represent logic and the Borg represent conformity.  Three virtues to live by.



I... can't believe I never thought about it like that.

From my point of view you don't have to have humans. I suspect a lot of readers will still read it through the lens of the human condition  

Personally speaking a well crafted non-human tale holds a lot of attraction. But you might be giving yourself a lot of work - people fill in the gaps a lot with humans. I don't think a writer has to make as much effort. But if you're happy to take on the challenge to show people a completely different culture without written reference and comparison with human culture - I think you should go right ahead!


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## Addison (Jul 29, 2016)

I remember in high school I read a series of books told from the POV of dragon siblings. I remember the author's last name was Knight...I think. It's been a while. I remember the first was told from the POV of the gray dragon, who has no scales, or basic lizard scales. He's the wisest of dragons. The second is told from his sister, a green dragon (with dragon scales, all females are green), who thinks dragons should stay out of human affairs. The third is told from the copper brother dragon, who hates man due to how they tortured him so he wants to lead an army to kill them. The stories had me take a look at our own world of man....not exactly proud of what I thought of us. 

I think the inclusion of man in a fantasy world is to give us, humans, a link to the world. Although it's kinda pphhbt. 
All fantasy worlds are based on some myth, culture or something here. We don't show compassion for others just because we have the same anatomy, it's because we can connect by some other means. So yeah, humans in fantasy are not required, by now people are just used to it. It's become a staple as much as fantastic creatures, different worlds and magic. 

On a related note, why do most fantasy stories especially YA and MG have protagonists who have magic powers? I don't mean Chosen Ones, but where does it say that in a fantasy novel there must be a hero, or a mentor, who can do magic? Healing remedies, sure, spell to move a mountain? Where's the fun in that?


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## WooHooMan (Jul 29, 2016)

Addison said:


> On a related note, why do most fantasy stories especially YA and MG have protagonists who have magic powers? I don't mean Chosen Ones, but where does it say that in a fantasy novel there must be a hero, or a mentor, who can do magic? Healing remedies, sure, spell to move a mountain? Where's the fun in that?



You're supposed to project yourself in the role of the protagonist.  When the hero has magic powers, you're projecting yourself into the role of a magic users.  It's vicarious wish fulfillment, which is generally how young people tend to enjoy fiction.  What you're asking is like asking "why would the main character in a superhero story be a superhero?".  
The alternative is a subversion.  It's appeal comes from the fact that it is a subversion.  Even when it happens, it can never work as the norm or the rule of the genre.

Plus giving the character magic powers puts one of their feet in the "fantastical" while being a "relatable everyman" human puts his other foot in the mundane.

Me being of the Robert E. Howardian tradition of fantasy writing (as opposed to, say, the Tolkienian tradition), I tend to restrict magic to the villains.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Jul 30, 2016)

I think the general consensus is that we like human protagonists because we are human. If they weren't human, we couldn't relate to them. That's true. 

However, what we're overlooking is that elves, dragons,and other fantasy races essentially ARE human. Outwardly, no, but in terms of their inmost nature. If they were anything other than human we wouldn't be able to write them, and even if we could, no one would be able to relate with them. There are differences, of course--a dragon might have a more savage or avaricious nature, an elf might be less prone to corruption and selfishness--but the core is the same. The differences between races explore and exemplify human traits; they don't create new ones.

So, all my races are human on the inside, essentially. The only real differences are in their physiological traits (which are interesting to explore in of themselves) and which human traits are emphasized. 

That being out of the way...I really can't pinpoint why having humans in my book bothers me so much. No animal is the same as on earth. There are no horses for my characters to ride or rabbits for them to hunt. This is simply because creating creatures is one of the most fun things about writing fantasy, so why cheat my imagination? From a scientific standpoint, humans wouldn't have evolved without the same environmental influences that brought them about on earth. So, there's that. 

I think the issue is that humans as a race don't seem to fit in with the others. All my races seem to me like humans+something (wings, photosynthesis, rainbowy skin and long lifespan) and humans are just...humans. Their presence bugs me. 

Changing my characters from humans into some non-human species is practically out of the question. My idea of who and what they are is too well established.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Jul 30, 2016)

There is still the question of why the race who took over took only humans as slaves. Humans would definitely be easiest to control, and the most useful, of the races.


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## La Volpe (Jul 30, 2016)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> That being out of the way...I really can't pinpoint why having humans in my book bothers me so much. No animal is the same as on earth. There are no horses for my characters to ride or rabbits for them to hunt. This is simply because creating creatures is one of the most fun things about writing fantasy, so why cheat my imagination? From a scientific standpoint, humans wouldn't have evolved without the same environmental influences that brought them about on earth. So, there's that.



Well, I generally also like to create new creatures, but there are diminishing returns. E.g. the horse. I keep horses in most of my stories that require them, instead of creating a Glirbalop and making it perform the same function as a horse. If I can believably use a horse in my story, I do, since it doesn't gain me very much to do anything else.

Doesn't that mean my worldbuilding is less inventive and more humdrum? Yes, probably. But think of the amount of work you need to do here. You'll essentially need to construct entire new ecosystems, AND come up with good reasons why the same type of animals wouldn't have evolved. Wolves, for example, are very good at what they do, and that's why they survived and thrived. So if your story is set in a woodland (or an actual wolf-habitat if that isn't one), why wouldn't wolves (or wolf-like creatures) have evolved there?

I'm sure you can come up with solutions to these questions, but it's a lot of work for not much gain. No reader is going to assume your story uninventive because you included horses instead of Glirbalops.

Then again, I'm pretty lazy. *shrug*



> I think the issue is that humans as a race don't seem to fit in with the others. All my races seem to me like humans+something (wings, photosynthesis, rainbowy skin and long lifespan) and humans are just...humans. Their presence bugs me.
> 
> Changing my characters from humans into some non-human species is practically out of the question. My idea of who and what they are is too well established.



Well, perhaps your problem is with that equation: humans + something. How about you rather use humanoid + something for all your races, including humans. I.e. don't give all human attributes to your other races. For example, maybe only your normal humans sweat. This makes them vastly superior in warm climates, because they can cool down a lot faster. Maybe they heal faster than others, or have a higher pain tolerance.

Also, humans are generally evolved for savannah living. E.g. maybe the other races can't run, because they never evolved an achilles tendon. Or they can't stay in the sun too long or they overheat.

I also see humans as a kind of changeling humanoid. Other races tend to be very stuck in their ways and more cohesive. Humans, on the other hand, are endlessly adaptable, able to live in almost any climate, adapt to it, and thrive. They can eat near anything. Maybe your other races have limited diets, and often struggle to get food.

If all else fails, humans could be your rat/cockroach humanoid race. I.e. impossible to get rid of, because they can live anywhere, are hard to kill, endlessly persistent, stupidly adaptable, wide diet, and maybe even faster reproduction.

You mentioned this in your first post:


> Perhaps humans are the evolutionary ancestor of the races--but this raises questions, such as, why do they still exist?



The same reason there isn't just one kind of wolf/lion/elephant etc.


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## WooHooMan (Jul 30, 2016)

La Volpe said:


> Well, perhaps your problem is with that equation: humans + something. How about you rather use humanoid + something for all your races, including humans.



I think sci-fi does better with non-human people precisely because they don't follow any formula like that.  Sci-fi writers tend to love getting weird with their peoples.

I think the best formula is theme=environment+life.  "I want a warrior race (that's the theme) which means they need to be tough so what environment would create tough creatures?  Well, desert wastelands, I guess?  Ok, what kind of creatures evolve/prosper in that kind of environment?" and then you go from there.


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## Vincent Lakes (Aug 1, 2016)

In my world, the major species are definitely humanoids, colored by different kinds of distinctive features that set them apart from each other, just like in real world. I basically like the lack of limitations in fantasy, but I also like to have something to relate to. I've noticed that if a story contains absolutely no humanoids, my interest level decreases rather rapidly because I've yet to read a story that could capture a non-human character in a way that it would hold through an entire story. This is probably because I'm a big fan of low fantasy, and tend to lean that way in my own writing as well, adding a lot of historical details from real world. If everything is made up, I lose my grip on it and my mind just stumbles like a toddler in the woods. I need something familiar, something that I recognize without thinking too deeply or interpreting to put it all in proper scale. It takes tremendous skill and a lot of time to wrap a pure fantasy setting without any anchor in reality to make it come through as believable alternative to real world. I'm not saying other settings don't require as much work; I have worked intensely through many years to make my low fantasy, medieval-spirited pile a dirt what it is now, and I'm just now beginning my journey in it, but I think the developing process can be slightly smoother when you don't have to start everything from a clean canvas, including every species and races that dwell in it.

The same goes for an average reader. I think readers are smart, and they can absorb incredible things with little effort. But you, or me, as a writer, have to create the characters, and if there's nothing familiar about the species, it takes a lot more to create that believable background where these characters are functioning. 

I'm not sure if this makes much sense, but I did try my best to explain my personal view on pure fantasy and non-human species as related to everything else.

Deeply sorry for the wall of text. It is what it is.


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