# Medieval Medicine



## Tom (May 15, 2013)

This is kind of a gross question, but does saliva have antiseptic properties?
In my WIP, at one point the MC gets wounded and as a secondary character, a healer's apprentice, is binding up his wounds she tells him to spit on the wounds to ward off infection. I know this was a standard course of treatment in the early middle ages, but was it at all effective? Or did it just promote infection?
The reason I wanted to find out is so those in the medical community won't come after me with battleaxes when my WIP is finally (if ever) published.


----------



## Butterfly (May 15, 2013)

I'd say that saliva is too full of bacteria to be of any real benefit.

But I do know that miners when underground and with a fresh wound would use their own urine to clean said wound. I'd imagine it's pretty salty and is saline and mostly sterile when it leaves the body. 

Think of the boiled down cow urine used in the Thirteenth Warrior.


----------



## SeverinR (May 15, 2013)

Healthy urine is sterile, of course someone with an urinary tract infection or a skin infection near the discharge area(STD, cellulitis, etc), could just deliver infection into the wound rather then cleaning it. 
Also a good pressure stream of sterile urine could clean the wound of dirt and germs also.

I've "heard" dog saliva has some antiseptic properties, I've "heard" people's does too.
But I wonder if the true benefit is the cleaning by the tongue rather then just the "germ killing" spit.

Disclaimer: Heard does not equate to true. I have no medical evidence to support a definate answer pro or con.


----------



## Tom (May 15, 2013)

Thanks anyway. The people in the middle ages were pretty much backwards on every thing else so why not medicine as well...


----------



## Nameback (May 16, 2013)

"A common belief is that saliva contained in the mouth has natural disinfectants, which leads people to believe it is beneficial to "lick their wounds". Researchers at the University of Florida at Gainesville have discovered a protein called nerve growth factor (NGF) in the saliva of mice. Wounds doused with NGF healed twice as fast as untreated and unlicked wounds; therefore, saliva can help to heal wound in some species. NGF has not been found in human saliva; however, researchers find human saliva contains such antibacterial agents as secretory IgA, lactoferrin, lysozyme and peroxidase.[6] It has not been shown that human licking of wounds disinfects them, but licking is likely to help clean the wound by removing larger contaminants such as dirt and may help to directly remove infective bodies by brushing them away. Therefore, licking would be a way of wiping off pathogens, useful if clean water is not available to the animal or person.

The mouth of animals is the habitat of many bacteria, some pathogenic. Some diseases, such as herpes, can be transmitted through the mouth. Animal and human bites are routinely treated with systemic antibiotics because of the risk of septicemia.

Recent research suggests that the saliva of birds is a better indicator of avian influenza than are faecal samples.[7]"

Saliva - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Mholly (May 17, 2013)

I agree that the bacteria in the mouth probably wouldn't be helpful. Yeah many of the practices seem backward back then considering they thought leeches cured everything. They also would continue to use bloody medical supplies over and over again.


----------



## skip.knox (May 17, 2013)

>I know this was a standard course of treatment in the early middle ages

I was wondering how you know this. Any references? I'm sort of obsessed with gathering reference material.

If the character is a healer, then you can just have the spit (the healer's spit, that is) be healing. No medical explanation required.


----------



## Tom (May 19, 2013)

I don't really know where I picked it up. I believe it was one of my friends. She's studying to be a doctor and was telling us about medieval medical practices one day and happened to mention the whole saliva thing. I bet if you looked it up on Wikipedia you'd find something...


----------



## Tom (May 19, 2013)

Thank you! This supports my theory that yes, people were smart back then.


----------



## Chessie (May 19, 2013)

People in the Dark Ages had knowledge of medicinal plants at the least. Their health methods seem strange to us, but you'd be surprised as to how much they did know.


----------



## wordwalker (May 20, 2013)

Call it a case of a lot of knowledge, but a lot of ignorance and misapplied ideas mixed in with it too. Including by the leading "experts" that were supposed to be infallible.


----------



## skip.knox (May 20, 2013)

Tom Nimenai said:


> I don't really know where I picked it up. I believe it was one of my friends. She's studying to be a doctor and was telling us about medieval medical practices one day and happened to mention the whole saliva thing. I bet if you looked it up on Wikipedia you'd find something...



Nope. That's why I asked for a reference. To the best of my knowledge, we know very little about early medieval medical practice in any form, much less something like using spit. There are stretches in those centuries where we have no documents at all, and whole centuries where we have nothing medical. 

Now, perhaps when you said "early middle ages" you weren't being specific to the period 500-800, so maybe I'm reading too much into this. But medieval medical practices are hard to find until we get into the 12th century or so. Galen was the handbook. Beyond that, medicine was a craft like carpentry or shoemaking--you learned it by apprenticing with a doctor, though there weren't even doctors, really, just people who knew stuff (I'm not sure when the word "physician" was first used in the sense of a trade at which one could make a living). We begin to get doctors in the 12thc with the rise of universities. Medicine was one of the first of the university degrees.

But if you should happen to talk to your doctor friend again, maybe you could ask her how it is she knows that.


----------



## Tom (May 28, 2013)

You'd be surprised at all the wierd little tidbits of info she has in her head. And not just on medicine!


----------



## Caged Maiden (May 28, 2013)

I've read a lot about medieval medicine in my search for beautiful scrolls.  I've never heard about saliva being used to cure wounds in any way.  However, one thing people don't tend to realize, is that early man, say, in the Stone Age, were performing brain surgeries, but then later people often didn't have the knowledge to heal a spear wound infection and died.  It's all relative.  Certain places were very advanced, while other places were not for a long time.  You could use that theory, applied to your world, that in one particular area, certain people use their saliva to heal wounds, while other people wouldn't derive any healing benefit from it.  Who knows.  Maybe it would be a really interesting conversation...

Medicine tended to be regional, depending on what plants were available.  Some cultures lucked out, having opium at a very early period, while other places experienced very few medicinal plants.  During the time of trade, anything valued for medicinal properties (or that could be used to make fine cloth or had any other industrial value) was heavily traded.  Maybe certain other things could be used?


----------



## CupofJoe (May 29, 2013)

Sphagnum Moss would/could be used to dress wounds because of it beneficial effects... I'm fairly sure it was still in use in France during WW1 [its a family story that the moor behind my Grandmother's farm was harvested [and picked clean] for moss and that caused floods for years afterwards]....


----------



## Chessie (May 29, 2013)

Caged Maiden said:


> Medicine tended to be regional, depending on what plants were available.



Yes. Medieval medicine to the average person consisted of herbal remedies and folk cures, dependent on area/culture. A patient might be given an herbal tonic and a spell. There were few trained doctors and they mostly worked for the rich. Monasteries were also centers of medical knowledge, since monks copied (ancient) Greek/Roman texts. Though we've advanced TONS medically since the Middle Ages, the knowledge from then still has been a building block. Plants used medicinally back then are still used today, for example. 

The main advice given to medieval people was exercise, eat well, take care of yourself...same as today. I do think it would've been known that spitting on a wound would most likely cause infection. A lot was known back then.


----------



## Tom (May 29, 2013)

I've invented a plant for my world called the embala--it has antiseptic properties and numbs pain. Some people might call it the easy way out, but my world is based on the ecosystem of my region, and as far as I know there are no healing plants around here with those qualities.

Of course, the Native Americans who lived here probably knew of at least a few healing plants. I'll have to research that.
Thanks for your advice!


----------



## Butterfly (May 29, 2013)

Here's a book you should find useful

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Western-Med...1&keywords=western+medicinal+plants+and+herbs

(Gee... price has gone up since I bought it).


----------



## Chessie (May 29, 2013)

Tom, if you do a google search you'll find a lot of information about herbal and folklore medicine in the Middle Ages. Such a subject is the basis of my WIP and I've had plenty of luck with the internet. I also have a handful of herb books for my Ayurveda practice so if you ever need a list of herbs that do something let me know. I'm well versed with herbs.  What type of climate/environment does your story take place in?


----------



## Tom (Jun 1, 2013)

Temperate decidous woodlands, dry and hot in summer, cold and snowy in winter, prone to overcast and light rain. It's based on my region, the northeast US, so I know most of the plants and animals in the storyworld, but mostly what's good for food, not medicine.


----------



## Chessie (Jun 1, 2013)

Are there any books in your library that have information about local medicinal plants? You could always try contacting holistic/herbal healers in your area, they would know about which local plants can be used for such purposes.


----------



## Tom (Jun 2, 2013)

An old friend of the family is a reenactor at a local historic village. She plays a pioneer midwife and has an extensive knowledge of medicinal plants and historic medical practices. So yeah, maybe I can ask her. Thanks so much!


----------

