# How much do you make self-publishing?



## Muqtada

Not like it all comes down to money or anything... but it does.

I was just wondering, for any of you on here who have tried self-publishing, if there is a rough average for first-timers. I understand that the amount of sales probably has a lot to do with how you market it, your cover art, etc. and there are probably numerous other variables (pricing, demand on the market for your kind of book, if word passes through the grapevine) and for all of these reasons I'm not asking for any sort of dangerously specific numbers or breakdown. What I was wondering is if a self-published novel likely to make a total of $50 in the first year on the market? Would it be unexpected for it to break the $200-mark in a year?

For sake of argument, let's say we're talking about the Amazon Kindle market


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## sashamerideth

I have two shorts on Amazon, published in January, at .99. I have made 1.35 with no effort to publicize. I suspect those few sales have come from other Mythic Scribes members.


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## Devor

Muqtada said:


> What I was wondering is if a self-published novel likely to make a total of $50 in the first year on the market? Would it be unexpected for it to break the $200-mark in a year?
> 
> For sake of argument, let's say we're talking about the Amazon Kindle market



It depends on a lot.  Price, quality, promotion.  $50-$200 in a year is more than reasonable, and you can probably do better, but it all depends on _you_ and how much work you put into it.  I'd also have to note, because these things tend to follow a sort of pattern, most of your sales would be back-ended.  If you're on pace for making $50 in a year, you might go 8 months making the first $20 and then make the last $30 in the final four months of the year.  That's just how it works with online marketing.

The conventional wisdom, so to speak, is that it takes about a year to build an audience online.  Whatever you're doing, if you do it for a year, the results you get are probably all you're going to get, unless you start to escalate your efforts.  You can see that, for instance, with Mythic Scribes, which just had its one-year birthday.  We're starting to see that escalation; in this case, Black Dragon is now starting to use the people in the community as a resource to build up the quality of the site.  Before that, it looked to me like it had a breaking point late last year and was just starting to peak.  But now, because the effort has increased, we should continue to see growth.

It'll follow the same sort of pattern for your writing.  After about a year, you should be posting your sequel.  Or some other major expansion of content.  But in that year, if you aren't putting in a 100% of what's needed, you might end up with under $10.


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## Benjamin Clayborne

sashamerideth said:


> I have two shorts on Amazon, published in January, at .99. I have made 1.35 with no effort to publicize. I suspect those few sales have come from other Mythic Scribes members.



This roughly matches my experience. (Two shorts, published in January, and made a similar amount, with no real marketing effort.)


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## MichaelSullivan

The short answer is you get reap what you sow.  I've made six-figures in self-publishing and sold more than 70,000 books.  Some call that an outlier - but I'm no where near that.  Is that what can be expected?  No - not in the least. Does it show what is possible....yes.  Some sell only a few books a month a large number of people I know sell 1,000+ a month - but they treat it like a business....have several books for sale, all with good covers, and all of high quality - and they market themselves.

It all comes down to the quality of the product, and your ability to get people to know about it. As in any small business many make little to nothing, some scrape by, and others do spectacularly well.  What doesn't work... Just throwing together a book and putting it out there and hoping people will flock to your door.


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## LestatPublishing2000

The easiest way is to build your credentials with publishers in lyrics, poems and shorts and possibly collaborative works with established writers and publishers. Being an unknown writer the easiest way to establish credentials is to buy 'vanity publishing deals' . In this deal, you will pay for the registration of your published works yet, you will retain full royalty and ownership of your work. Adding to your list of credentials of work with reputable /established publishers you can then approach Publishers with your book/works and seek a more elaborate publishing deal where the publisher will pay you an upfront fee and retain an agreed amount of royalties. The more credentials you have established with publishers the better deal you may get since first-time publishing from unknown writers may be heavily squeezed for the risk factor, therefore causing you a small upfront fee and large percentage of royalty losses. It's the same game anywhere, you build your credentials first to get noticed as a professional in industry, and then you will be given more consideration as a professional with established/registered works and past dealings with publishers in industry. We offer credential building options at out publishing company to new writers but you'd have to private message so it's not to be considered spamming.


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## Devor

LestatPublishing2000 said:


> The easiest way is to build your credentials with publishers in lyrics, poems and shorts and possibly collaborative works with established writers and publishers.



The easiest way is to be awesome.  True story.

I'm sorry, I couldn't help it.  Your advice is sound enough.  Start small, do well, work your way up.  But you're confusing me a little.  What do you mean by registration?


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## MichaelSullivan

LestatPublishing2000 said:


> The easiest way is to build your credentials with publishers in lyrics, poems and shorts and possibly collaborative works with established writers and publishers.



I've heard the "start with short stories" many times in the past. In fact my own agent wanted me to write some when she was shopping my larger works around to have credentials. While this sounds good in theory, for some (like me) it won't work in practice. I'm a MUCH better novel writer than I am short stories. It takes a certain talent to be able to pull off a short and if you don't come by that talent naturally you might be putting a square peg in a round hole.



LestatPublishing2000 said:


> Being an unknown writer the easiest way to establish credentials is to buy 'vanity publishing deals' .



I don't see how you can "buy credentials by vanity publishing. Most people in the know will tell you to not even mention any self-published works - unless you can boast substantial numbers of copies sold.


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## LestatPublishing2000

ah, but since I run a major publisher with license through the largest professional society in USA and am on Board of Members,  I have a little knowledge on the subject. If you doubt the posts I make,  do it how you feel is best.


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## Black Dragon

LestatPublishing2000 said:


> ah, but since I run a major publisher with license through the largest professional society in USA and am on Board of Members,  I have a little knowledge on the subject. If you doubt the posts I make,  do it how you feel is best.



Please provide us with evidence that your company is legitimate.  If you do in fact "run a major publisher," you should be able to direct us to some of your publications as well as to a web site.

If you are unable to do so, we will have to conclude that your company is suspicious, and will ask you to leave.  We don't want predators soliciting our members.

Thank you in advance for your cooperation.


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## LestatPublishing2000

Black Dragon said:


> Please provide us with evidence that your company is legitimate.  If you do in fact "run a major publisher," you should be able to direct us to some of your publications as well as to a web site.
> 
> If you are unable to do so, we will have to conclude that your company is suspicious, and will ask you to leave.  We don't want predators soliciting our members.
> 
> Thank you in advance for your cooperation.




I see, well you can go to ASCAP website and search their ACE/Repertory records and check under publishers for Lestat Publishing.  I'm also on the Board of Members elected in 1999. I might have already revealed that in my introduction post to this site.

and once you get the phone number off of the record, if you call it, I'm probably here right now


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## Telcontar

Still rather suspicious. A web search on Lestat Publishing turns up little, and you have no link on your profile. Add to that the amateurish writing style and the seeming endorsement of buying 'vanity publishing deals' and you do not give a convincing first impression.


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## LestatPublishing2000

What I mean by registration is , when a publisher publishes your works they register these works under their publishing company and credentials. So instead of being out there alone with your book you also have published works which you can build in credentials to show publishers. It's the same as if you were trying out for a movie and if you had already starred in 10 other movies as opposed to being a first time audition.  Sometimes companies like the fact that you already have your sea-legs in working in the industry. For example, there could be an event of someone published for first time, and perhaps they weren't sure what it entailed, so they signed the contract, and then they go on a tirade complaining about the royalty they were given, they flame the company and their wealthy mother brings lawsuits against the company to no avail, only to find out it was part of the legal process and was in contract. Then they say "ohhh, alright, well I didnt know that".  This isn't my personal experience but I know of many like it. Some of the process is knowing you're dealing with somebody that knows the ropes, knows the process and there isn't going to be any jack -in-the-box surprises and headaches. There are A LOT of people out there and it doesn't always work out well with all personality types.  It might sound strange, but you'd be surprised how far and few between of people can handle themselves professionally and understand the processes ,set goals and achieve them with as little metal burs to grab as possible. Credential process allows companies to know who they're dealing with, equivalent of references. It might be assumed that everyone is capable , but wait until you have a guy in your office that thinks the aliens from mars are gonna be pissed off because his publication was to make more money and so they think you are holding them back and they're not afraid to zap you with quantum muon fermion classes.  The more people you meet as a professional company, the more thankful you are for those few that you know are pretty damn sane.


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## LestatPublishing2000

You went to ASCAP , the American Society of Composers , Authors and Publishers, that is home to 75% of all professionals in USA. 
You found my Publishing company registered and you're claiming its not enough, and I have an amateur writing style? 

wow, now I feel like I've been insulted and hurt feelings.  
I'm sorry , how might I be more professionally registered ? 
a link to a website would make me more valid? I currently don't run a website for my publishing company , but if you check any of the past 13 year publications of the ASCAP book of members,  I will be in those. and at the ASCAP website. 
I'm sorry, but I cant get Santa Clause to endorse me at the moment. My writing style sucks? god, that sucks. 
Now I feel like my hairs messed up and my pants are down in the middle of the mall, and I suddenly came into awarenes that way, don't know how I got there. UGH.

You said a web search turns up little. 
right, please goto ASCAP , they're pretty reputable as the largest society in USA.
Ace/Repertory of records. Lestat Publishing 


my writing style is amateur? dammmmn


soo... I'm distracting myself right now , thinking of all the good things I've done. I'm imagining attractive women and I've done pretty good in my career. (invasion thought "Your writing style is amateur!" ..ignore it, its probably not true, I hate oil lamps, I like pizza and catelope sized breasts I dont care if they're fake , they just look good.  ) 

Thanks. I'm feeling the love.


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## TWErvin2

LestatPublishing,

You've been hitting/posting in a lot of the writing forums recently, looking for writers. Nothing wrong with that, I guess.

As there's not a website, what novels/books has Lestat published? What genres (I am guessing fantasy as you posted here) are you interested in? What formats do you publish (what rights do you normally negotiate for in your contracts), do you offer advances, etc.? Who distributes your authors' works? Are the works regularly stocked in bookstores, in what counties, or only available online? Do you accept unsolicited mansucripts or do you require established agents to submit them to your company? Are there any fees or payments from the author to the publisher? These are some of the things a writer seeking a publisher might hope to find at a website. That's one of the reasons why a publisher usually has a website. Also, a place for readers to go for more information if they've found an author they like.


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## LestatPublishing2000

That's interesting TEErvin2,  whats the name of your publishing company that you do all these things in such order?

I'm a professional publisher and I know nobody gets a full publishing with advancement and royalty as an unknown writer unless you know somebody. I offer credential building that writers can advance their careers on which not many other do. You've checked the ASCAP society for my publishing credentials then? 

It seems some speak here about the big golden ring publishing deal as many musicians are conditioned to talk about the one big record deal signing. I run a record company as well. 

The big hop-skip-jump to the big deal is the popular talk , but the reality is credential building. 
In my professional experience here's what I learned,  your career is not a destination, it's not a record deal or a big publishing deal. In reality it will turn out to be the money you will make along the way and the credentials will be what closes those deals for you. I understand your concern , but I run a publishing company and the credentials are verified at the proper sources. 

The big record deal and the big publishing deal never happen, your career is based on your ability to make money as a career while working towards that big deal. I am skeptical on people that have masses of people led along towards the big deal, thinking if their book or music is good enough they will hit that big deal. I'm here and on other sites giving reality. 

Im a publisher. Lestat Publishing
performer 
recording/engineer
producer
songwriter

I was rated #1 in USA five times, I have 12 commercial radio awards. I was rated #1 at Capitol Radio ( the highest rated rock show) I used to believe in the big record deal. But instead I got to my accomplishments on my own. There never was a big record deal or publishing deal. I ended up gaining all of my own credentials. So now looking back at those who are being led along to the one big deal , disgusts me. I offer realistic startegies. 

There are many that prey on the creative. I'm the only one here that can say I've been through it and have ALL credentials to show. 

REALISTIC careers.. not text-book tongue in cheek regurgitated cliche's about how to get the big deal. I help writers, musicians and artists in the reality of the world , not the sitting waiting pondering the big deal.  With credentials , writers can approach businesses and everyone in the world to say one thing = "I write, I'm published, and here are my credentials" . When a business sees that they are published, they have high status credentials , they're more likely to go with them as opposed to the other guy/girl. 

WHILE they work towards the 'big deal' 

I'm a professional and elected member of the biggest society in USA for publishers, I know real -world situations and real world law on these aspects. Build your credentials, make a living off your writing, while approaching the big end all deal.  Just in case it never comes or takes awhile.

It's a simple question of if writers want to make money now or wait until the big deal comes, and if you have ANY professional experience you will have known that most of those big deals come from working with people long enough until one day somebody has some deal for you on larger scale. That's how deals come. I don't run a forum , I run a publishing company and deals dont come to great writers, they come to great writers that have over the years worked their way around to where that deal lands. If you have more professional real-word advice I'd like to know it, and I'd like to know your credentials, your publishing license number, the people you have worked with and credentials of anyone you have made #1 in USA.


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## Black Dragon

LestatPublishing,

Once again, I am requesting that you provide us with the names of some of the books that you've published.  If you are indeed a "major publisher," you should be able to do so.

If you are unable to provide this information, I am forced to conclude that you are not legitimate, and will ask you to leave.


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## Benjamin Clayborne

When someone shows up claiming to be a publisher, and _everyone else immediately becomes suspicious,_ and then the "publisher" gets really defensive about it, I think we know everything we need to know.


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## LestatPublishing2000

ASCAP.com 

for the third time.

If you go to ASCAP.com 
and search ACE/Repertory of record for Lestat Publishing. 
There you will find it.

ASCAP is the American Society of Composers Authors and Publishers with 75% of all professionals in US. Im on Board of Members at ASCAP as well.


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## Telcontar

LestatPublishing2000 said:


> You've checked the ASCAP society for my publishing credentials then?



Why do you keep bringing up ASCAP? They are a performance arts publishing organization. Perhaps you have forgotten, but this is a _writing_ community. Not lyrics: prose fiction. Any 'major publisher' would know that they are very different worlds and experience in one is most certainly not transferable to the other.

Additionally, you are a 'major publisher' without so much as a website. Doubtful.

To continue, you are a 'major publisher' who refuses to name even one _actual_ publication. Highly irregular.

To elaborate, ASCAP is a very easy association to join, requiring only a small fee and a single credit with extremely loose requirements. I could join it tomorrow if I so wished.

And to conclude: Yes, your writing style sucks. Any 'major' publisher would have somebody at the helm (or at least in charge of PR) capable of presenting their company in a professional manner. You come across as a roughly high-school level trickster with poor grammar, spelling, and formatting.


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## Black Dragon

LestatPublishing2000 said:


> ASCAP.com
> 
> for the third time.
> 
> If you go to ASCAP.com
> and search ACE/Repertory of record for Lestat Publishing.
> There you will find it.
> 
> ASCAP is the American Society of Composers Authors and Publishers with 75% of all professionals in US. Im on Board of Members at ASCAP as well.



I asked you *twice* to list some of your publications.  

If you were in fact a "major publisher," you would be able to do so.  The fact that you will not comply with this simple request speaks volumes.

If you are able to provide a list of publications, you can send it to us via our contact page.  Until then, I am closing your account to protect our members.


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## TWErvin2

The suggested search provided:

LESTAT PUBLISHING   Society: ASCAP       IPI No. 344657349  
 Contact:
    LESTAT PUBLISHING
    % FRANK PANETTA
    309 CHARBRIDGE
    LAPEER, MI 48446
    Tel. (810) 660-8000
    Email: [email protected]


The content/results really didn't address any of the questions asked.


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## Kelise

...A hotmail account sure speaks volumes, though. That's utterly hilarious.


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## sashamerideth

starconstant said:
			
		

> ...A hotmail account sure speaks volumes, though. That's utterly hilarious.



That's what I thought as well. Not enough facts, not enough substance, should we all phone the published phone number, day and night?


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## Philip Overby

Here's some info:

[link removed]
*
Note From Black Dragon:*_  Phil posted a link to an ad from the publisher in question.  This ad was posted on a free classifieds site.  Unfortunately, when I clicked on the link it set off my anti-malware protection, indicating that the site is infected._

_Here's an excerpt from the ad:_



> Lestat Publishing (ASCAP)
> is seeking writers for publishing of their works (lyrics/poems).
> Publishing fee is $500. Your writing/works will appear in ASCAP Registry as published by Major Publisher and professional works.
> Payable in $41.67 12 month payments.
> Up to 10 registered works at $50 per registration after initial fee.


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## gerald.parson

This is his day job.


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## Philip Overby

Crap...

Sorry, I didn't know the site was infected.  I didn't get any notice when I went there.  I'll be more careful with links I post here.


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## Black Dragon

Phil the Drill said:


> Crap...
> 
> Sorry, I didn't know the site was infected.  I didn't get any notice when I went there.  I'll be more careful with links I post here.



Don't worry about it, Phil.  Stuff happens.  In any case, we appreciate you getting to the bottom of this.


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## kennyc

Well, now back to the original topic. Anyone else have info/examples about self-publishing, particularly of e-books?

And also I'd be interested in comparisons of e-publishing to traditional publishing if anyone has had both experiences.

Thanks.


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## Muqtada

Haha who would've thought a question about e-publishing would cause so much excitement!


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## TWErvin2

kennyc said:


> Well, now back to the original topic. Anyone else have info/examples about self-publishing, particularly of e-books?
> 
> And also I'd be interested in comparisons of e-publishing to traditional publishing if anyone has had both experiences.
> 
> Thanks.



I can't speak directly to self-published, ebook route, but I can speak to my experience with the more traditional route via a small press (Gryphonwood Press).

I'm not the top seller with Gryphonwood. I know a couple of the authors do far better than I do, but my numbers are respectable, at least enough that my publisher published the second novel in my fantasy series. I get paid quarterly and sometimes the royalties are sufficient to make (equal to making) a monthly truck payment with enough left over to go out to dinner. Other times it's enough to put gas in the truck for a couple weeks. (I drive a Chevy Colorado). 

So, I'm not getting rich, but folks are reading my novels and that's what it's mainly about. The money is handy, but I don't think even if my works took off, I'd quit my day job. I really enjoy it as much as writing. As an aside, I often donate the royalties to charities and causes I think are important.

There are advantages to having a publisher as opposed to self-publishing, as well as disadvantages, but that's a discussion for another thread.

In the end, self-publishing won't do anything positive for the writer (financially or reputation/career-wise) if what's published is poor or substandard quality, whether it's due to weak: storyline, storytelling, writing, grammar, editing, formatting or any combination (plus a few things not listed).


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## Codey Amprim

Well it seems this thread is heading in a nice direction.

Time to sit back with some popcorn.

But seriously, on both sides, we need to act professionally. Not that I'm a moderator or in any type of position to be saying anything, but where is your boss? I'd have you fired in an instant. There is no need to talk like that in a potential business setting, or any other professional setting.

The reasons why there are so many questions about your company's legitimacy are quite obvious, are they not? As a publisher, wouldn't you understand this? Hmm.

Writers in general, not just the fine folks here, should and do take pride and value in what they make, and for us especially, our works are parts of our lives. Think of it as if it were your newborn child. We aren't going to hand it over that easily. Would you trust a stranger with your child? I think not.

To avoid this altogether, you should first try to answer the questions you think you would want to know if you were a member of the audience. This really helps avoid situations like this, and makes everything go a lot smoother.

Also, I shan't say a word about your writing style, either, for I find that it speaks for itself! 


EDIT: Sorry if this laugh-a-palooza was dead, and I added to it. I was on my phone, and it sent me to the beginning of this whole thing, little did I realize I was on the first page. Woopsies.


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## Philip Overby

TWErvin2 said:


> I can't speak directly to self-published, ebook route, but I can speak to my experience with the more traditional route via a small press (Gryphonwood Press).
> 
> I'm not the top seller with Gryphonwood. I know a couple of the authors do far better than I do, but my numbers are respectable, at least enough that my publisher published the second novel in my fantasy series. I get paid quarterly and sometimes the royalties are sufficient to make (equal to making) a monthly truck payment with enough left over to go out to dinner. Other times it's enough to put gas in the truck for a couple weeks. (I drive a Chevy Colorado).
> 
> So, I'm not getting rich, but folks are reading my novels and that's what it's mainly about. The money is handy, but I don't think even if my works took off, I'd quit my day job. I really enjoy it as much as writing. As an aside, I often donate the royalties to charities and causes I think are important.
> 
> There are advantages to having a publisher as opposed to self-publishing, as well as disadvantages, but that's a discussion for another thread.
> 
> In the end, self-publishing won't do anything positive for the writer (financially or reputation/career-wise) if what's published is poor or substandard quality, whether it's due to weak: storyline, storytelling, writing, grammar, editing, formatting or any combination (plus a few things not listed).



I think having insight in how to go about getting published with a small press is extremely useful.  I think there is a large focus on self-publishing but not as much on small presses.  Any further advice you may have for aspiring writers to get noticed by small presses could be really helpful.  However, that may be better suited for another thread.

I have known several authors who self-published who sell pretty well.  They don't roll in cash or anything, but they do a good job promoting their work and eventually translating that into a more traditional route.  From what I understand, you have to have that "entrepreneurial spirit" in order to get a self-published novel where it makes enough money to support you.  So not only do you have to be a great writer but also a master marketer.  Marketing can go a long way to selling almost anything.  Of course, that's the case for any writer.  You can't just write something awesome and then sit back and say, "Well, I'm published.  Sweet.  Let's see that money roll in."  I'd say a sound marketing strategy is any writer's best weapon, self-published or traditional.


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## Legendary Sidekick

starconstant said:


> ...A hotmail account sure speaks volumes, though. That's utterly hilarious.


A hotmail account that is 62 days old or less, seeing how "2012" is part of the account name.


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## gerald.parson

Id agree with that, marketing is a huge factor, as it is with almost any business. I mean crap, a guy made millions buy selling a rock in a box.


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## MichaelSullivan

LestatPublishing2000 said:


> What I mean by registration is , when a publisher publishes your works they register these works under their publishing company and credentials. So instead of being out there alone with your book you also have published works which you can build in credentials to show publishers.



This is true in traditionally publishing, where the publisher invests money and employees time to produce the work. But in a "vanity press" the publisher will publish anything, regardless of quality, as long as the requisite fees are paid. I'm not sure how that provides any 'credentials.'



LestatPublishing2000 said:


> It's the same as if you were trying out for a movie and if you had already starred in 10 other movies as opposed to being a first time audition.



And if those 10 movies were made by you...it doesn't prove anything one way or the other.


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## MichaelSullivan

kennyc said:


> Well, now back to the original topic. Anyone else have info/examples about self-publishing, particularly of e-books?
> 
> And also I'd be interested in comparisons of e-publishing to traditional publishing if anyone has had both experiences.
> 
> Thanks.



My self-publishing experience revolves aound 5 novels and one short-story.  While I published the novels in both e-book and print formats - the vast majority of the sales were in ebooks.  The books were on sale from April 2008 - August 2011 and I sold70,000+ copies across 5 titltes.

My "traditional" publishing experience includes a small press - who did a traditional print run (which sold out after 14 months and then the right reverted to me) and signing with Orbit (Fantasy imprint of Hachette Book Group) who has publihsed my six-book Riyria Revelations as a triology: Theft of Swords (Nov 2011), Rise of Empire (Dec 2011), Heir of Novron (Jan 2012).

Both experiences, self and traditional have been good ones for me.  Both have various pros and cons.  What in particular were you looking for?


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## kennyc

I was interested in the number of sales - traditional vs ebook, which I think you answered close enough. I appreciate your information!  Thanks!


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## Philip Overby

MichaelSullivan said:


> My self-publishing experience revolves aound 5 novels and one short-story.  While I published the novels in both e-book and print formats - the vast majority of the sales were in ebooks.  The books were on sale from April 2008 - August 2011 and I sold70,000+ copies across 5 titltes.
> 
> My "traditional" publishing experience includes a small press - who did a traditional print run (which sold out after 14 months and then the right reverted to me) and signing with Orbit (Fantasy imprint of Hachette Book Group) who has publihsed my six-book Riyria Revelations as a triology: Theft of Swords (Nov 2011), Rise of Empire (Dec 2011), Heir of Novron (Jan 2012).
> 
> Both experiences, self and traditional have been good ones for me.  Both have various pros and cons.  What in particular were you looking for?



I just wanted to note that it's great to have someone with both self-publishing and traditional publishing experience here on the forum.  It would be great to pick your brain for advice for both paths.  

I'm curious.  Do you think your self-published works helped build your credentials towards getting a deal with Orbit?


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## MichaelSullivan

Phil the Drill said:


> I just wanted to note that it's great to have someone with both self-publishing and traditional publishing experience here on the forum.  It would be great to pick your brain for advice for both paths.
> 
> I'm curious.  Do you think your self-published works helped build your credentials towards getting a deal with Orbit?



Oh without a doubt. The same book had been shopped to New York years ago...before self-publishing and didn't get so much as a nibble. My agent put together a proposal and sent it to 17 editors in New York and had 7  (or was it 8 don't recall) that immediately said they were interested.  Orbit made a pre-emptive bid, and since they were our top pick we went with them (and they have proved to be a very good choice).  All data I have indicates that a standard advance for a debut author is $5,000 -$10,000 a book so I should have gotten a $30,000 advance for my 3-book deal. But I actually received a six-figure advance which is much higher and I'm sure it is directly related to the success of the self-publishing.


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## MichaelSullivan

kennyc said:


> I was interested in the number of sales - traditional vs ebook, which I think you answered close enough. I appreciate your information!  Thanks!



The one thing I can't give you yet is traditional numbers as I don't have any royalty statements.  Using bookscan data, and some approximations for ebooks I anticipate that I've sold approximately: 33,000 books  (16 weeks book 1, 14 weeks book 2, 6 weeks, book 3)


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## Ravana

> Originally Posted by LestatPublishing2000 View Post
> It's the same as if you were trying out for a movie and if you had already starred in 10 other movies as opposed to being a first time audition.



Hey, yeah, maybe he has a point here: I _totally_ forgot about all those movie auditions I went to where they charged me $500 to try out.…

[Sorry: just had to say it. I'm assuming his posts haven't been deleted as a cautionary tale, BD? –Anyway: back to the topic.]


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## gerald.parson

MichaelSullivan said:


> The one thing I can't give you yet is traditional numbers as I don't have any royalty statements.  Using bookscan data, and some approximations for ebooks I anticipate that I've sold approximately: 33,000 books  (16 weeks book 1, 14 weeks book 2, 6 weeks, book 3)


Michael, those numbers 33,000 units sold, I am correct in understanding those where just eBook sales? 
I believe you mentioned before you self-published and then got a deal for a re-print on those books, is that correct? If so, during the time period you self-published, what do you do, from a sales and marketing standpoint, to generate sales and interest? I hope you don't mind me asking, but I am curious, and I think it would be sage advise for any aspiring self-published or soon to be self-published authors on the forum.


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## MichaelSullivan

gerald.parson said:


> Michael, those numbers 33,000 units sold, I am correct in understanding those where just eBook sales?



No those are both print and ebook.  I seem to be running about 50% each with the traditionally published works (which is higher than most of their authors which I think run 15%- 30% of ebooks.  The 70,000 books that I sold as self-publishing were almost all ebooks and most of those sales came in from Oct 2010 - February 2011.



gerald.parson said:


> I believe you mentioned before you self-published and then got a deal for a re-print on those books, is that correct? If so, during the time period you self-published, what do you do, from a sales and marketing standpoint, to generate sales and interest? I hope you don't mind me asking, but I am curious, and I think it would be sage advise for any aspiring self-published or soon to be self-published authors on the forum.



Yes I was self-published - and yes the books were re-published through a big-six.  The promotions for my books are legion -way to much to get into on a forum here. The best advice I have is to comb my wife's website (Blogsot.com) where she discussess most of what she did there.  It ranges across a whole slew of activities - everything from branding, to price promotions, to review copies, and blog tours. I'm really not trying to be evasive here it's just that Robin wrote hundreds of pages of detailed plans that she executed against and it's not easy to sum up.  To attempt to sum up a bit it would be.

1  - Work on getting your presentation as professional as possible: Good author bio, good book ad copy, nice covers, 
2  - Determine your main keywords and what markets you think will provide the highest return based on your books
3  - Work on getting credibility first - and eyeballs after that.  That means working on getting reviews, awards, best-of-lists, recommendations from notable players in the industry.
4 - Generate traffic to the books once they "look worthy" - don't try to put the cart before the horse - driving thousands of looks to a book that has 1 or 2 reviews is useless - make sure you have at least 12 and preferably 25 then start driving people to them.
5 - Drive people with free content: podcasts, sample chapters, free shorts
6 - Collect emails and foster a direct releationship for people to buy from you direct - they are your core fans and winning them over will make a army of salespeople who are brining in new people through word-of-mouth sales.

Hope some of this helps.


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## boboratory

whew, this thread moved fast...

   My (as Brick Cave Media) serious effort starts last August when I took it on full time, but with one major book, we passed $200 for the year last year, and so far are averaging over $100/month for the first three months of 2012 (with only the same titles). Lots of new books coming out this year (at least 4 novels, 8-10 short stories, and 3-4 books of poetry), so I think I'll see a nice bump into April-June and beyond. We are super small, with absolute start from zero authors, but growing.

   Michael's advice is right on, the closer you get to your readers, the better positioned you are. Don't just use facebook to tell people to buy your book, talk to people and engage them so they know who you are- they are more likely to then purchase a copy from someone they "know". 

   I am not yet convinced about the freebie piece, though. Since January, people have downloaded 400 copies of 4 different free stories we have available by a certain author- I am not convinced that these have contributed to sales of his "For Sale" Novel, but I need to dig a little more on that (just got that data today). I could be wrong, but my gut says some other stuff is feeding into the increase.

** Addon***

   But, as you can see by the time stamp on this post, I am having to LIVE in this mode almost 24 hours a day to get there, and you need to be ready to do that, even if you have a publisher. If you prep yourself for that, and expect it- you can do powerful things.


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