# How to dragon



## megamoo (Jul 20, 2017)

I'm writing epic fantasy with magic and dragons and I'm trying to decide what my dragons will look like.

I originally had envisioned many different breeds of dragons but the main one is basically like a horse with wings because they are used by people like horses that can fly. 

Looking at pictures and other descriptions of dragons there seem to be two general types.  One is the pegasus type, four legs plus wings.  And the other is two back legs and the front legs are the wings, which I think of as a bat type.

I'm looking to make the beasts as realistic as possible.  I cannot think of a real world creature comparison that has wings and more than two legs, except for insects.

I know could just say its my world and I can have whatever because - magic.  But it really feels like a cop-out.

When you think about how an arm or wing attaches to a body there are lots of muscles and tendons etc. and I can't visualize how a double shoulder would work.

Anyone have any ideas of real animals that have wings and distinct front legs?


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## Viorp (Jul 22, 2017)

You can't have a realistic dragon though... nothing of the size of a dragon could possibly fly...

If you want something realistic at most you could create giant, leaping reptiles which spit acid.


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## Insolent Lad (Jul 22, 2017)

I did my dragons on the bat principle. It just made more sense. And not all that big because, yes, a  heavy dragon couldn't get off the ground, much less fly any distance. The same, incidentally, with griffins.


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## skip.knox (Jul 22, 2017)

Realism is overrated. An albatross can fly while sleeping. It can also stay airborne for over a year. Without the scientific proof of this, who among us would have invented such a creature and called it realistic?

Besides, we do not deal in what is real. We write fiction. We deal in what *resembles* reality. We serve up as many as six impossible things before breakfast.


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## Malik (Jul 22, 2017)

I made my pegasi enchanted horses, bred by wizards in a highly guarded operation in a remote tower; essentially, restricted military technology. In my world, the wings are superfluous but function as a safety feature, so that no one will accidentally steal a flying horse and find himself a mile in the air. 

There's no way a winged horse could ever fly, and no way I could ever make it workable, so I used handwavium. Because magic exists in my world, and flying horses fall directly into that category. However, I did spend weeks designing a functional pegasus saddle that solves a few issues that no other authors have seemed to have thought of, and the saddle design has generated many kudos from my readers, especially from those who ride horses and had the same questions about a pegasus that I did. Pick your battles, is what I'm saying, here. YMMV.


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## Demesnedenoir (Jul 22, 2017)

If you have magic in the world, how is having something fuction because of magic a copout? Now, if it doesn't fit the system of magic you've designed, I could see an issue. But otherwise? Meh. Roll with it.


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## Aurora (Jul 22, 2017)

Hm. There are dragons in my world that I have yet to use. This might be an unpopular opinion around these parts but I kept them as basic as possible. Think of your average dragon. I think it's easier for readers to connect with something they already know. So mine aren't anything fancy. Besides, I love dragons unaltered. Meaning, what they turn out like in your world will reflect your love and the type of readers you're trying to reach.


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## Aurora (Jul 22, 2017)

Demesnedenoir said:


> If you have magic in the world, how is having something fuction because of magic a copout? Now, if it doesn't fit the system of magic you've designed, I could see an issue. But otherwise? Meh. Roll with it.



I love your response. Nothing irritates me more than when I read suggestions on how magic shouldn't be used for problem solving. So long as it's in a freaking fantasy world then why does it matter?


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## Demesnedenoir (Jul 22, 2017)

Yeah, I have dragons who were at the creation of the world... they laid their eggs in the budding energies of the world, and those children have evolved (or de-evolved... whip it, whip it good) into creatures we'd recognize as dragons. The First Dragons were interdimensional beings, more like the Chinese dragon in appearance than Western.



Aurora said:


> I love your response. Nothing irritates me more than when I read suggestions on how magic shouldn't be used for problem solving. So long as it's in a freaking fantasy world then why does it matter?


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## Aurora (Jul 22, 2017)

Demesnedenoir said:


> Yeah, I have dragons who were at the creation of the world... they laid their eggs in the budding energies of the world, and those children have evolved (or de-evolved... whip it, whip it good) into creatures we'd recognize as dragons. The First Dragons were interdimensional beings, more like the Chinese dragon in appearance than Western.


That's super cool! I'm not so creative and mine are considered ancient lol. This means there's a lot of mystery surrounding their existence. One of the novels in my current series will focus more on their lore, which gives me a few months to think about it.


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## FifthView (Jul 22, 2017)

megamoo said:


> Looking at pictures and other descriptions of dragons there seem to be two general types.  One is the pegasus type, four legs plus wings.  And the other is two back legs and the front legs are the wings, which I think of as a bat type.



I thought that technically the 2-leg variety are really wyverns and the 4-leg variety are dragons.

This is kinda funny because, as has been pointed out, you can do whatever you want. There's no "real" involved concerning dragons.

But I do wonder if the wyvern vs dragon classification is something that might be noticed by some readers, since the discussion of the difference is old. So maybe if you made a 2-leg variety and called it "dragon," some diehards might object.

I could be entirely wrong though. I think Dany on GoT is done well, for the 2-leg variety. And everyone's fine with calling those dragons.

Personally, if I were going to do it, I'd make it so that the 2-leg variety can run fast too. I'd build off the idea of this: Funny Running Lizard - YouTube. But also, I'd be thinking of Chocobos hah.

I believe the evolutionary track of life on earth has led to the two-leg + wings configurations, since wings are basically the arms/forelegs that other animals have. The biggest difference would be insects; but, that's more than four legs.


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## Queshire (Jul 22, 2017)

It's actually quite interesting how specialized birds are to fly. Their bones are hollow, their breast muscles are proportionally gigantic  to be able to flap their wings and you know all those birds that poop on people's cars? There's no maliciousness in it. They're physically incapable of controlling when they poop. They just get rid of their waste as soon as they possible can to get rid of whatever extra weight they can.

I have seen some works have dragons with large bladders in their body filled with lighter than air gases to help reduce their weight. If it's a flammable gas that helps with the fire breath too. Bit funny to imagine dragons as basically large biological blimps though.

I think one good way to add a bit of realism would be to consider the position you ride them in. Take a look at a bat;








The only way you could ride that like a horse was if they basically pierced the wing membrane and put in hoops for you to put your legs in through. Most likely you would have to ride it like one of those stupidly fast motorcycles with your belly to the back of the dragon and your butt in the air. Or maybe sit in front of the wings with your legs around the neck?

Still, all three options provide a bit more depth.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Jul 22, 2017)

megamoo said:


> I'm writing epic fantasy with magic and dragons and I'm trying to decide what my dragons will look like.
> 
> I originally had envisioned many different breeds of dragons but the main one is basically like a horse with wings because they are used by people like horses that can fly.
> 
> ...



Implausible dragons is one of the most forgivable implausibilities for readers. Why? Dragons are friggin awesome. 

(I should know. I am a dragon, and I am awesome.) 

But, if plausibility is important to you, your dragons likely will have to be restricted to the two legs and two wings type. Forelegs and wings together just doesn't work. Birds have a keeled breastbone (except the ones that don't fly) and the powerful muscles required to move the wings anchor there. Forelegs probably would get in the way of this. Even if you could make it work, the forelegs couldn't be very powerful, which is bad, since the forelegs bear most of the weight in a four footed animal and powerful forelegs are needed to do things like run and seize prey with the front claws. If the forelegs aren't very useful, why have them? 

My dragons have four legs and wings. Why? I wanted them to. Dragons are cool enough that readers will accept them because DRAGONS. 

I did decide that a warm blooded, more mammal like creature was better for how i envisioned a dragon, which led to my dragons having feathers and fur instead of batlike wings and scales. This was more a stylistic choice than a realism choice though. I envision dragons as active, intelligent creatures capable of forming complex social bonds with both their own species and humans. These characteristics are more typical of birds and mammals than reptiles, which tend to be not very social, not very active, and not very intelligent that I know of. Plus, feathers are easier to draw, and fur is cuddlier.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Jul 22, 2017)

Queshire said:


> It's actually quite interesting how specialized birds are to fly. Their bones are hollow, their breast muscles are proportionally gigantic  to be able to flap their wings and you know all those birds that poop on people's cars? There's no maliciousness in it. They're physically incapable of controlling when they poop. They just get rid of their waste as soon as they possible can to get rid of whatever extra weight they can.
> 
> I have seen some works have dragons with large bladders in their body filled with lighter than air gases to help reduce their weight. If it's a flammable gas that helps with the fire breath too. Bit funny to imagine dragons as basically large biological blimps though.
> 
> ...



As for dragon riding, what about lying flat across the dragon's back? 

If you had a sling or something you could even ride underneath the dragon, belly to belly, gripping its belly with your knees. 

But, yes, sitting with your legs in front of the wings might work. 

Dragon riding is a whole new plausibility problem. You'd create a lot of drag sitting up there, and who knows if it could even carry you? Your bones aren't hollow. (I mean, they could be, if you're not a human.) Not to mention you would shift the dragon's center of gravity. I feel like that would cause problems. 

A dragon with forelegs could, like...just hold you against its chest as it flew. Provided its front legs didn't get too tired. But if it needed its front legs to land...


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## CupofJoe (Jul 23, 2017)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> (I should know. I am a dragon, and I am awesome.)


And that will be my affirmation for the day! Thank you!



Queshire said:


> Most likely you would have to ride it like one of those stupidly fast motorcycles with your belly to the back of the dragon and your butt in the air.


I have Messenger Wyverns that are ridden this way. The Riders have to peer past the neck to make sure they are going the right way.


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## TheKillerBs (Jul 23, 2017)

I wish I could have answered earlier, but my car decided to die on me so I didn't have the time to sit down and give the in-depth reply I wanted to give.

First, I want to echo everyone who said not to let realism get in the way of awesome. Awesome sticks to people. No one is ever going to remember a work because it's so realistic. They'll remember it if it leaves an impression. Awesome stuff, by definition, leaves an impression. Now, that does not mean that realism doesn't have its place. It does. And often, by imposing a limit like "make it realistic" you can come up with an awesome idea, which might be awesomer than the original idea.

Second, reality gives more leeway than people might lead you to believe, as skip mentioned with the albatross. For example, the arbitrary limit of "horse-sized" or the keeled breastbone. The largest pterosaurs ever found were giraffe-sized. That's significantly bigger than a horse. Now, there is some debate about whether or not these pterosaurs were actually able to fly, but there are other pterosaurs that were still bigger than horses and their ability to fly is not questioned as much. Last I checked though, it seemed that the pendulum was swinging toward the likes of _Hatzegopteryx_ and _Quetzalcoatlus_ being fliers again. On the subject of keeled breastbones, pterosaurs and bats(!) don't have very pronounced keels, yet are able to flap and fly just fine.

With all that out of the way, how could one do a realistic hexapod dragon? Well, first idea that comes to mind is to take one of these giant pterosaurs and give it T-rex arms. Vestigial limbs. Boom. There we go. But that seems a little unsatisfying. Also, the fact that they are vestigial limbs means that at some point, its ancestors had bigger forelegs _and_ wings. So how might that have looked like? Well, we could attach a smaller secondary shoulder blade below and behind the wings' shoulder blades. This creature would presumably have evolved from a completely terrestrial hexapod, and its front legs became the wings, and the second pair of legs became the front legs. These would have their own muscle group, completely independent from the wings'. I sketched a crude picture of how the skeleton might work.







Another, less satifying (for me, anyway) way would be to take the real life dragon. It's a lizard with extended ribs, which work as pseudo-wings. If you were to scale it up to horse-sized or larger, the rib "wings" would need to extend by a lot more. Large enough that it would give the illusion of actual wings. Still, it would only be able to glide, not fly.

Anyway. I hope this helps. Either way, I had a lot of fun procrastinating with this thought experiment so thanks a lot, OP.


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## Insolent Lad (Jul 23, 2017)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> I did decide that a warm blooded, more mammal like creature was better for how i envisioned a dragon, which led to my dragons having feathers and fur instead of batlike wings and scales. This was more a stylistic choice than a realism choice though. I envision dragons as active, intelligent creatures capable of forming complex social bonds with both their own species and humans. These characteristics are more typical of birds and mammals than reptiles, which tend to be not very social, not very active, and not very intelligent that I know of. Plus, feathers are easier to draw, and fur is cuddlier.



I went mammalian for my dragons too. Essentially very large members of the weasel family—with wings. And the 'fire,' as in all creatures in that family, comes out of the other end of the animal.

As for the wyverns mentioned above, I chose to make them a completely different reptilian creature.


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## megamoo (Jul 24, 2017)

Thanks everyone for the great responses.  

First I should say when I said realistic what I really mean is believable.  Obviously we're writing fantasy and dragons existing is already a super awesome conceit.  Most people realize a creature as big as a horse would need extremely large and tough wings to get airborne, and then it's hard to imagine without magic and willing suspension of disbelief.  

All dragons in my world are creatures of magic, if indeed they are stupid beasts, and this assists them in flying.  But saying that I don't want them to behave or read like levitating platforms.




Malik said:


> I made my pegasi enchanted horses, bred by wizards in a highly guarded operation in a remote tower; essentially, restricted military technology. In my world, the wings are superfluous but function as a safety feature, so that no one will accidentally steal a flying horse and find himself a mile in the air.
> 
> There's no way a winged horse could ever fly, and no way I could ever make it workable, so I used handwavium. Because magic exists in my world, and flying horses fall directly into that category. However, I did spend weeks designing a functional pegasus saddle that solves a few issues that no other authors have seemed to have thought of, and the saddle design has generated many kudos from my readers, especially from those who ride horses and had the same questions about a pegasus that I did. Pick your battles, is what I'm saying, here. YMMV.






Demesnedenoir said:


> Yeah, I have dragons who were at the creation of the world... they laid their eggs in the budding energies of the world, and those children have evolved (or de-evolved... whip it, whip it good) into creatures we'd recognize as dragons. The First Dragons were interdimensional beings, more like the Chinese dragon in appearance than Western.



That is so close to what I'm writing!  In the origin story of my world the first dragons were superintelligent beings I envision as the Chinese type dragon, who visited the world through a portal from another far away place.  The Chinese type are huge serpents with little or no real wings who fly through the air by magic, as though they are snakes swimming in water.  Then regular people of the world took their essence, (its not explained because that knowledge is lost but think DNA) and created other much less intelligent and different beasts.  

This is the point I am wondering whether to make these human created dragons like bats or pegasi.  Over thousands of years dragons were bred into different shapes and sizes for different purposes, so I suppose I can include both types.  



The comment about the prone saddle design makes a lot of sense.  Wind resistance would blow you off the back if you sat up LOTR movies style.  

In looking at a lot of art of dragons and people riding dragons I noticed most of the women were scantily clad.  I get why they were drawn like this but wouldn't it be ridiculously cold?  There's a reason aviators in open air cockpits wear goggles and body coverings.  Also motorcyclists.

I think there is only so much you can say, "it doesn't make sense but... magic."


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## skip.knox (Jul 25, 2017)

FWIW and FTWC (for those who care), my dragons are created. They aren't part of the monsters who first arrived in Altearth; rather, they were created by wizards who deliberately tried to create beings out of mythology. Dragons prospered for a time and ravaged much of northern Europa. Unintended consequences, and all that.


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## Vadosity (Aug 1, 2017)

1. I agree with this - 



> Implausible dragons is one of the most forgivable implausibilities for readers. Why? Dragons are friggin awesome.
> 
> (I should know. I am a dragon, and I am awesome.)



Nuff said! Dragons are just awesome, amazing creatures and I just LOVE THEM! They make every fantasy better and so what if they can't exist in reality? This is FANTASY! It is meant to be better and that means dragons! 

However if you really want to real world inspiration how about this? 

This is a Glaucus atlanticus or the sea swallow, blue angel, blue glaucus, blue dragon, blue sea slug and blue ocean slug and it is a species of small, blue sea slug. It is also the closest thing I have ever seen to a real dragon!


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## Vadosity (Aug 1, 2017)

I would like to add that while I write rather traditionally shaped dragons - they have four legs, two wings (webbed) and a long tail. I make them different by giving them intelligence, often more than their human co-cast and they never have riders nor are beholden to any. They have their own laws, their own Council and are often turned to by the Kings in the verious Kingdoms as advisers. 

They are also often the heroes of the my stories, filling the roles of chosen, knight, whatever and defeating the bad guy. So I think that dragons are as new or as realistic as you want them to be.


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## Simpson17866 (Aug 3, 2017)

megamoo said:


> When you think about how an arm or wing attaches to a body there are lots of muscles and tendons etc. and I can't visualize how a double shoulder would work.
> 
> Anyone have any ideas of real animals that have wings and distinct front legs?


 This is why I like "wyvern" dragons better than "classic" dragons, but maybe the forelimbs are far enough below the wings that you have four single-shoulders instead of two doubles?


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## Vadosity (Aug 3, 2017)

The thing that has always bothered me about wyverns is how do they stand when on land? If they need to lie down then 1. how do they get off the ground enough to get in the air again and 2. it sort of leaves them at a huge disadvantage when not in flight which seems silly if you consider the fact of how much energy they would use in flying. Also how do they eat? how do they hold their pray when killing it? Front legs are useful!


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## Simpson17866 (Aug 3, 2017)

Vadosity said:


> The thing that has always bothered me about wyverns is how do they stand when on land? If they need to lie down then 1. how do they get off the ground enough to get in the air again and 2. it sort of leaves them at a huge disadvantage when not in flight which seems silly if you consider the fact of how much energy they would use in flying. Also how do they eat? how do they hold their pray when killing it? Front legs are useful!


 They walk on their wings like bats


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## Orc Knight (Aug 3, 2017)

I'll throw in my two cents on dragons, with my own particular takes on them.

Honestly, it's dragons, unless it's fire breathing dinosaurs (also a cool option, because why not?). Technically, dragons are so varied between east and west I don't see why one can't call wyvern's dragons too. Be it Behemoth or that fire breathing serpent Beowulf fought or the traditional western one that steals princess' and ends up stabbed later on by that bastard in shiny armor.

As for my own, they are creations of a particular old god, or set of old gods, that have some basis in the mammal like reptiles of the Permian era. They are a young race descended from Salamanders. The elemental sort, not the amphibians. The six legged mutation got played around with and created the Drakes, Dragons, Wyverns and even the Serpents of the world of Eld. They kind of played around with them and while still being dragons, they are not an ultimate power in the world. In fact, they tend to end up as food. As a defense, they've got shape shifting abilities and are technically a hermaphrodite species. They also have the weakness for gold, power and sometimes maidens and creating cults that try to power them to be gods. That usually ends in them becoming dead. And trophy's. And likely a lunch for a small army.


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## Vadosity (Aug 4, 2017)

Simpson17866 said:


> They walk on their wings like bats



Ah...  lol


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## Vadosity (Aug 4, 2017)

Orc Knight said:


> I'll throw in my two cents on dragons, with my own particular takes on them.
> 
> Honestly, it's dragons, unless it's fire breathing dinosaurs (also a cool option, because why not?). Technically, dragons are so varied between east and west I don't see why one can't call wyvern's dragons too. Be it Behemoth or that fire breathing serpent Beowulf fought or the traditional western one that steals princess' and ends up stabbed later on by that bastard in shiny armor.
> 
> As for my own, they are creations of a particular old god, or set of old gods, that have some basis in the mammal like reptiles of the Permian era. They are a young race descended from Salamanders. The elemental sort, not the amphibians. The six legged mutation got played around with and created the Drakes, Dragons, Wyverns and even the Serpents of the world of Eld. They kind of played around with them and while still being dragons, they are not an ultimate power in the world. In fact, they tend to end up as food. As a defense, they've got shape shifting abilities and are technically a hermaphrodite species. They also have the weakness for gold, power and sometimes maidens and creating cults that try to power them to be gods. That usually ends in them becoming dead. And trophy's. And likely a lunch for a small army.



Those shiny bastards! Wondering around giving dragons a bad name!


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## Holman (Aug 4, 2017)

Vadosity said:


> Those shiny bastards! Wondering around giving dragons a bad name!



Now there is the title of a book. "The shiny bastards." A story of a murderous cult intent on wiping out all of dragonkind.


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## Vadosity (Aug 4, 2017)

Holman said:


> Now there is the title of a book. "The shiny bastards." A story of a murderous cult intent on wiping out all of dragonkind.



That would be a great title! lol. Also would be a great book. I would read it 

I have to note that great minds think alike! A future project of mine is a Novella in Flash documenting how dragons go from being Heros to feared and thought of as evil. I was thinking of taking a "humour" tone to it and making it a slander campaign started by the Kings of various kingdoms after some dragons refused to pay "air taxes".


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Aug 5, 2017)

Vadosity said:


> The thing that has always bothered me about wyverns is how do they stand when on land? If they need to lie down then 1. how do they get off the ground enough to get in the air again and 2. it sort of leaves them at a huge disadvantage when not in flight which seems silly if you consider the fact of how much energy they would use in flying. Also how do they eat? how do they hold their pray when killing it? Front legs are useful!



Same as a similar creature like a bird of prey, i'd imagine


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Aug 5, 2017)

Holman said:


> Now there is the title of a book. "The shiny bastards." A story of a murderous cult intent on wiping out all of dragonkind.



That *is* a good book title. Sounds as if it's spoken by a grumpy old dragon to another...

Can we please have a story about dragons that can shapeshift to human form and a princess that escapes her marriage to an evil prince to be with a such shapeshifting dragon?


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## Simpson17866 (Aug 5, 2017)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> That *is* a good book title. Sounds as if it's spoken by a grumpy old dragon to another...
> 
> Can we please have a story about dragons that can shapeshift to human form and a princess that escapes her marriage to an evil prince to be with a such shapeshifting dragon?


 *Yes*, please, write it for us


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## Insolent Lad (Aug 5, 2017)

I wrote a tale about a somewhat elderly shape-shifting dragon who attracted unwanted attention from his housekeeper in human form (the fact that he had a rumored hoard hidden away had something to do with it).


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## Vadosity (Aug 5, 2017)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> That *is* a good book title. Sounds as if it's spoken by a grumpy old dragon to another...
> 
> Can we please have a story about dragons that can shapeshift to human form and a princess that escapes her marriage to an evil prince to be with a such shapeshifting dragon?



Give me two or three days and I will get you that story  !


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Aug 6, 2017)

Simpson17866 said:


> *Yes*, please, write it for us



I'm trying to write like 20 things in different parts of my brain


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## Orc Knight (Aug 6, 2017)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> That *is* a good book title. Sounds as if it's spoken by a grumpy old dragon to another...
> 
> Can we please have a story about dragons that can shapeshift to human form and a princess that escapes her marriage to an evil prince to be with a such shapeshifting dragon?



That would rather fit into the entire basis of my Eld world as is. A rather nice twist to the songs and stories. May take a bit but I can see if I can go that route. Though honestly, it's more likely a Dragon Slayer ends up as a dragons lover. Sort of the Buffy thing.


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## Simpson17866 (Aug 6, 2017)

Mine is an Urban Fantasy world, so I won't be writing the specific "princess and shapeshifting human-dragon run away together from evil prince" scenario, but shapeshifting is one of the most common forms of magic in my world and dragons are one of the most common species 

The average dragon in my world is also far more ethical and compassionate than the average human


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## Malik (Aug 8, 2017)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> I'm trying to write like 20 things in different parts of my brain



The way you write, you need to write them all. 

Write, goddammit. I want to read your stuff in print.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Aug 9, 2017)

Malik said:


> The way you write, you need to write them all.
> 
> Write, goddammit. I want to read your stuff in print.



Will do. Figuring out how to fit a steady writing habit into my schedule my senior year. But I'm gonna make it work.


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## Simpson17866 (Aug 12, 2017)

How much could the updrafts created by a dragon breathing fire make up for their generally being too large to fly?


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## pmmg (Aug 13, 2017)

Not sayin that wyverns are not cool and all with their four limbs, but I think that may just be a creation of those who wanted there to be a difference between these creatures. Dragons and Wyverns may just be interchangeable terms in the way the wizards and mages and sorcerers are. If I recall, Dungeons and Dragons made the difference between these creatures that one had a breath weapon and the other didn't. Number of limbs though may more likely be an expectation of todays reader, but not one that is a true universal definition. And there are certainly more varieties of dragon than just to two mentioned in the OP. Oriental style of dragons don't match either of these.

I had read something once on the subject of flying dragons (forget the source, sorry), that dragons, by nature of being able to breath fire, had a belly full of hot gas, which aided in making them more buoyant, similar to a hot air balloon, and thus able to fly, even though they should not be able to. I have also heard that a bumble bee defies science in its ability to fly. As for something that big not being able to fly, the air bus it pretty big. Anything big can fly with enough of the right elements.

Not being able to imagine the musculature that would allow for a six limbed creature that can fly does not mean that such could not just exist anyway. If you want the creature to have the musculature, just write that they do, and their shoulders are a bit larger because of it (I doubt you will be called on to show diagrams of this).

And of course, dragons are usually cast as magical beings. If superman can fly because of yellow sun energy, dragons can fly just because of a magical nature. 

Ultimately though, I side with those who have been saying dragons are well established in fiction. Readers will buy flying without much explanation.


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## TheKillerBs (Aug 13, 2017)

Bumblebees don't defy science to fly. That's a myth I wish would stop being perpetuated. The most over-simplified explanation to how bumblebees (and every other insect ever) fly is that the high-speed movement of their wings acts like a helicopter rotor to provide lift.


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## Zeppo (Aug 14, 2017)

For me, when it comes to dragons, if they have wings, they can fly. If you talk to a physicists or a biologist, they would certainly tell you that Dragons are simply too heavy for those wings to function in the manner that a 'typical' dragon is seen flying. So, although magic doesn't need to be a cop-out, I think that with Dragons, we can have a general suspension of dis-belief regarding Dragon flight. Check our the Adventures of Merlin, the Dragon certainly shouldn't be able to fly, but it does, and it appears as though it would be physically able to.

I guess my point is that you don't need to scientifically explain why things work the way they work unless you are focusing specifically in a non magic or skeptical world view.


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## Draconianwriting (Aug 15, 2017)

The prospect of many different types of dragons has piqued my interest. While writing my novel, (or attempting to) I decided to have 8 types of elemental dragons, not separated by color like normal, but by physical and mental characteristics. A dragon can really be anything you want it to be. It really doesn't even have to be a lizard, but people may call it a dragon anyway.


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## TheCrystallineEntity (Aug 16, 2017)

^^Ahem. Haku wants to have a word with you about that.


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