# Plant based magic system



## Chessie (Jun 22, 2013)

Hi everyone! I'm working on the magic system for my story but I'm in need of some suggestions. The magics in this world come from herbal tonics, but they also have medicinal properties. My story is basically the protagonist who uses healing magics and tonics VS the antagonist who uses tonics that allow her to delve deeper into dark magics. I'm having issues with the cost of using tonics and magic and basically making this 3D. Anyway, this is what I have so far:

-plants harvested in the wild have greater magical and medicinal benefits vs those that are farmed
-plants with high levels of toxicity produce the ability to work with stronger magics
-side effects from the tonics depend on which plants are used and how much tonic is ingested within a certain time frame
-plants are known to have magical properties but not everyone knows how to properly harvest and use them. This is learned via schools or passed down through generations (as in the protagonist's case)
-plants have energies that are sensed by those in tune to their vibes. They give/whisper information. I would love to develop this idea more without making it sound hokey. 

I would love some feedback on this and maybe an idea to bounce around and twist. Thank you in advance for your suggestions!


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## Weaver (Jun 22, 2013)

I think that something other than "tonic" may work better for what you call the stuff made from these plants; "tonic" has only positive connotations, and I get the impression that some of these are rather dangerous/harmful.  How about "tincture"?

I really like this idea for a magic system, though.  No magic missiles flying around -- this feels like a concept rooted in old folk beliefs, where magic is a more subtle thing.


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## ThinkerX (Jun 22, 2013)

For some reason, I'm remembering Carlos Castenda's books.  (If I remember right, he was an early delver into peyote.)

That said, my suggestions are:

1) There is a significant risk of addiction with many of these plants, featuring such wonders as hallucinations and long term medical issues.

2) A 'law of diminishing returns' -where in some cases, more and more of the plant has to be consumed less the effects diminish.

3) Some of the most powerful plants are actually toxic, taking them has something like a one in three chance of resulting in crippling injury, insanity, or death.  Appropriate cautionary tales for those considering their use.


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## Spider (Jun 22, 2013)

Maybe only the people who are in tune with the vibes of the plants' energies can hear the whispering. Or, after someone consumes the plant only that person can hear the information. This could create more conflict between characters who seek the most knowledge and power.


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## Chessie (Jun 22, 2013)

Wow thank you for all the suggestions! These are great, I can brainstorm more on this. I have given much thought about toxic plants being addictive. And Weaver, I am totally going for the old folk magic feel to my world. Posting this thread was very helpful.


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## Filk (Jun 22, 2013)

Very interesting concept for a magic system. I'm kind of a plant nerd myself (amateur at best). I find myself amazed at what plants are edible and also what medicinal benefits they can provide. I am obsessed with knowing the names of plants, both common names and the binomial nomenclature. I believe this stems from being brought up in a society where humankind is thought of as superior and thus naming something gains control over it. An idea I had for you would be to have these practitioners of magic learn true names of plants that are perhaps divinely given. Perhaps "good" practitioners would know names in a sense of commonality whereas "evil" ones would name in order to master these plants. Perhaps by invoking a true name of a plant, one could gain the ability to "converse" with the plant. Maybe the plants could even sense the intent of the invoker and the quality of the tonic would be affected by the plant's perception of who picks it. 

I don't think that your idea sounds hokey; I quite like it. Animists and some Native Americans (among other peoples) have respect for plants in a way I'll never understand in my stalwart Occidental brain, but I respect them for it.


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## Chessie (Jun 25, 2013)

Thank you, Filk. I'm developing this magic system a bit more right now, so we'll see what craziness I end up with.


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## Azza (Jun 26, 2013)

Hey there,
Just a random idea I had while reading this thread - it could be a way for people to identify plants and their medicinal qualities perhaps.

The plant could be picked and its stem separated and attached to some sort of whistle mechanism (perhaps something the students get once graduating) when they blow on the whistle with the particular stem attached, it could produce a note which then allows the person to identify the family of that plant and so guess at its qualities. It reminds me of when people put a blade of grass between their thumbs and blow to make a shrill, whistling sound.
Or, to link it with your other idea, maybe blowing on the whistle makes the plant 'whisper' to the player ... or something.

A very random idea I know, which might not work at all with everything else you have planned out, in which case ignore it completely - but if its useful then great  I love your ideas by the way, looking forward to reading more about it!


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## gowph3ar (Jun 27, 2013)

When I Read the title I thought your people could photosynthesize? Like plants. I was like YES! I can just see people standing outside with their arms open absorbing the sun and stuff and then using that mass of energy to do magic or something hah! my brain is wacky.


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## Chessie (Jun 27, 2013)

THAT would be awesome!


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## Pat Harris (Jun 29, 2013)

Love this idea! Essential oils are increasing in popularity right now. Perhaps the essence of the plant, captured in the essential oil could be most powerful - which is the case in real life.


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## Trick (Jul 3, 2013)

Love the idea and only have one thing to contribute. What if the plants spoke 'languages' consisting of the sounds their leaves and flowers produce in wind or when intentionally disturbed by people. Rustling can sound quite a lot like distant whispering and there are many sounds heard in forest etc that are not produced by animals. You could even have animals be fluent in these languages naturally (especially herbivores) but humans might have to study long and hard to understand them.

Just a thought


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## Chessie (Jul 3, 2013)

Trick, I've actually added that into my story. I finally started writing it this week and put that in the second paragraph. The protagonist and her sister can tune into the energies being whispered by the trees, which are telling them of danger but they are whispering so fast the girls can't understand what they are saying. Thank you for the suggestion because I'm glad there are other who think alike...maybe my story won't sound crazy after all!


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## Trick (Jul 3, 2013)

Crazy is not always bad, sometimes it's very entertaining; I believe your story/idea has the good kind of crazy, and that's something I would read.


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## wordwalker (Jul 3, 2013)

Chesterama said:


> Trick, I've actually added that into my story. I finally started writing it this week and put that in the second paragraph. The protagonist and her sister can tune into the energies being whispered by the trees, which are telling them of danger but they are whispering so fast the girls can't understand what they are saying. Thank you for the suggestion because I'm glad there are other who think alike...maybe my story won't sound crazy after all!



Of course it's not too crazy. _I heard it through the grapevine..._


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## Chessie (Jul 4, 2013)

Thanks for the encouragement! I suppose there's always room for whispering plants in fantasy lol.


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## Ddruid (Jul 4, 2013)

Just wanted to chip in and say that this a very unique and interesting concept you have here. Thumbs up, Chesterama, for innovation and imagination. Your whole flora-based magic system is one of those ideas which, upon reading for the first time, one says to oneself, 'Why didn't I think of that?'

Pat Harris suggested that the essence of the plants could be converted into oils which would be more powerful than just using the plants. This got me thinking that if people in your world started picking up on this idea of converting the plants into oil then gradually they would start producing herbal oils on a massive scale. 

Since the plants will be consumed in the oil manufacturing process and since its on a mass-production scale, what if the magical herbs and flora started getting depleted? And what if the humans in your world are like the humans in the real world, i.e, they're so ignorant and short-sighted that they won't notice the damage they've done until it's too late? You already mentioned that farmed plants are weaker than natural, wild plants. So what if the spread of farming and oil-manufacturing industries leads to widespread environmental degradation and this endangers the precious magical plants even more?! 

This could be a nice theme to have in your novel. 

Also, please, just please, oh pretty, pretty please! Please consider gowph3ar's idea! It is just bloddy awesome!


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## Chessie (Jul 4, 2013)

Oh, all these ideas are already in my "use someday" list! Gowph3ar's is hilarious and something badass could be done with it for sure! Just thought I would share this bit of info here and see what some of you think. I'm still on the first scene of the story but its an important one (some world building here too):

Kratya is reluctantly harvesting alder leaves in the woods bordering her home with twin sister, Roza. Kratya is in a terrible mood, so her mind is elsewhere when the trees begin to whisper their agitations. Both girls can tune into these whispers but they're not that good at it yet...so they aren't able to understand the whispers with clarity (the trees are talking too fast and it sounds jumbled). Kratya gets a bad feeling and tells Roza they should go, but Roza reminds her that their father will get pissed if they come back with empty baskets. Roza begins to chant in an effort to calm down the trees, but it only intensifies their whispers, then both girls are attacked by a supernatural force which leads into scene 2...and thus the theme of the book.

Now, Roza disappears during the attack and Kratya is determined to find her. But she has to hone the craft of listening to these plants in order to find and save her sister. There's more to it than that, but I hate to give it away completely lol.


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## psychotick (Jul 4, 2013)

Hi,

Why would wild plants have stronger magic than cultivated ones? That makes no sense to me. However I can see that some plants that are not cultivated would have types of magic that are different to the magic of those that are. Simply because plants are cultivated for differnet reasons, i.e. food. And that therefor a lot of your 'wizard's' work would involve seeking out the different magics of wild plants. Not everyone wants the healing magic of wheat for example.

Spellbooks would actually be sort of cookbooks - i.e. which plants are harvested for which effects and how to prepare them. And given that a lot of plants are toxic a lot of the instructions would involve was of removing the toxins while retaining the magical part.

Wizard labs would of course be gardens, where they cultivate those plants that are of use to them and not generally cultivated because they aren't food products - with a kitchen attached.

I have no problems with the idea, witches have after all been mixing potions for centuries. I have some questions about the idea of the plants whispering knowledge. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

The whole light and dark side though seems a problem. To me unless you have some obviously dark magic like necromancy then the difference between light and dark magic is not the magic itself but rather how a person uses it. And it seems to me that a dark minded wizard might spend his days developing poisons and working out how to get people to drink them.

Cheers, Greg.


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## Chessie (Jul 4, 2013)

Hi Greg! Thanks for your input, here are some answers:


psychotick said:


> Why would wild plants have stronger magic than cultivated ones?


In the style of Herbalism I'm studying, its believed that wild plants have stronger medicinal values than those grown in gardens because the plants are living in their natural habitat, or where they are needed the most. Sure, the same plants also have medicinal value but the potency is different. I'm borrowing this idea to a degree. 



psychotick said:


> Spellbooks would actually be sort of cookbooks - i.e. which plants are harvested for which effects and how to prepare them. And given that a lot of plants are toxic a lot of the instructions would involve was of removing the toxins while retaining the magical part.


Yes, I'm incorporating something similar but still fleshing it out. The story doesn't focus on mage schools at all, though this information is mentioned. There are scenes in where readers will be able to see the preparation of tonics for magic (different plants for different uses) though. 




psychotick said:


> I have some questions about the idea of the plants whispering knowledge. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.


Plants being alive, have essence. The idea here is that those who work with plants (to use their magics) are able to tune into spiritual information the plants have. Its a skill that needs honing though, as there are X amount of plants in the area with many different uses. For example, the main character can tune into energies given off by trees mostly, because they are easier to understand. Its like learning a foreign language. There are X amount of foreign languages in the world but choosing to learn Spanish is one path, for example. I hope this makes sense. 



psychotick said:


> The whole light and dark side though seems a problem. To me unless you have some obviously dark magic like necromancy then the difference between light and dark magic is not the magic itself but rather how a person uses it.


Funny, the villain is actually a necromancer.  She uses different plants than the protagonist (who is a healer) uses. 



psychotick said:


> And it seems to me that a dark minded wizard might spend his days developing poisons and working out how to get people to drink them.


Not necessarily. She spends her time testing her magical powers on innocent people she holds hostage. Call it research.


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## Ddruid (Jul 5, 2013)

Chesterama said:


> Kratya is reluctantly harvesting alder leaves in the woods bordering her home with twin sister, Roza. Kratya is in a terrible mood, so her mind is elsewhere when the trees begin to whisper their agitations. Both girls can tune into these whispers but they're not that good at it yet...so they aren't able to understand the whispers with clarity (the trees are talking too fast and it sounds jumbled). Kratya gets a bad feeling and tells Roza they should go, but Roza reminds her that their father will get pissed if they come back with empty baskets. Roza begins to chant in an effort to calm down the trees, but it only intensifies their whispers, then both girls are attacked by a supernatural force which leads into scene 2...and thus the theme of the book.
> 
> Now, Roza disappears during the attack and Kratya is determined to find her. But she has to hone the craft of listening to these plants in order to find and save her sister. There's more to it than that, but I hate to give it away completely lol.



I would hate it too if you gave it completely away. This sounds like a perfect first scene for your novel. One that will introduce the reader to the mechanics of your magic system and also draw him straight away into the plot. Just out of curiosity, why is Kratya reluctant to harvest alder leaves? Is it any specific reason or does she just find it boring and a lot of drudge and work?

Also, I'm wondering just what kind of knowledge these plants give. You mentioned 'spiritual knowledge'? Or could you just talk normally with them like you talk with anybody else? Though it is hard to imagine what one would talk about with a plant. Are the plants in your world more alive and sentient than normal plants because of the magic in them? If so, how does this extra sentience show? 

Funny, I just remembered hearing about some book, an old horror novel in which plants grow limbs and can move and make sounds. Oh yeah and they start attacking humans while they're at it. Vegetable vengeance, I guess. Not a bad idea as far as bad ideas go. Pity I forgot the name of the novel.


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## Chessie (Jul 5, 2013)

I watched a horror movie once where trees did just that: came to life and killed people. It was so awesome but I'm displacing the name. But I digress. 

Plants have life essence but it takes time to tap into those qualities. The more a person works with plants to create magical tonics, the more information they receive on how to make more potent tonics, etc. The essence of these plants are inaccessible to untrained people. But their speech comes through strongly as a mixture of intuition and actual hearing of messages when a person has really worked to understand their messages. 

And the protagonist starts out being a bitter and rather "emo" young lady, who hates her life as a healer's daughter because its a simple existence and she wants more. She wants to be wealthy but its rather unlikely given her social placing. She's picking leaves reluctantly because she hates her father, not because he's mean, but because he stands in her way of doing something more with her life. Essentially, how she feels about her life and herself bugs the heck out of her through the story.


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## Obsidian (Jul 9, 2013)

I love plant based magic, I have some very similar concept for the fantasy race in my writing.


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