# Using Lovecraftian Elements Within a Fantasy Story



## Roughdragon (Sep 23, 2016)

Ok, I'm just wondering, is it common to use Lovecraftian themes or Cosmic Horror in a fantasy story filled with kings, queens, and knights in shining armor? To me it feels a bit out of place, but also puts the world in perspective. Instead of the world revolving around the kingdoms and their politics, these cosmic beings make the worldly armies, castles, cities, and civilizations feel completely insignificant in comparison.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Sep 23, 2016)

Roughdragon said:


> Ok, I'm just wondering, is it common to use Lovecraftian themes or Cosmic Horror in a fantasy story filled with kings, queens, and knights in shining armor? To me it feels a bit out of place, but also puts the world in perspective. Instead of the world revolving around the kingdoms and their politics, these cosmic beings make the worldly armies, castles, cities, and civilizations feel completely insignificant in comparison.



Who cares what's common? There's a potential story to be made from every idea and a potential audience for every story. If something speaks to you, write it.


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## WooHooMan (Sep 23, 2016)

Yes, it is.

They were in Conan.  And Lord of the Rings.  Look up the "Nameless Things".  Tolkien was a fan.


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## ThinkerX (Sep 23, 2016)

I am on the fifth novella in a series based on this sort of thing.  Actually, my entire world is based on Lovecraftian entities becoming involved in a slightly different fantasy world.  

Many of the characters are veterans of a devastating war where the leadership on one side were essentially puppets for a Lovecraftian deity, and sorcerer-aristocrats conjured toad-demons and other abominations.  That nation was utterly crushed, but that victory attracted the attention of dark gods and demonic entities, who now skulk through the streets and fields of the victors.  

In another series set on the same world, a different group of characters ventures into an immense living labyrinth populated by all manner of strange creatures.


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## Queshire (Sep 23, 2016)

The game Darkest Dungeon did this very well. Mind, I'm not a fan of that sort of tone personally but they still did it very well. I think when you deal with Lovecraftian themes a strong focus on characters is important, the personal struggle with the unknown and madness rather than the farm boy hero going off to defeat the demon lord.


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## Miskatonic (Sep 23, 2016)

Just make it interesting and not derivative. Also don't try and ape the language Lovecraft used as most that do this fail miserably.


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## Ban (Sep 23, 2016)

I don't think it's out of place if done well. My favorite walking simulator, the elder scrolls series, has 2 main pantheons of gods. One of these pantheons consists of over a dozen demonic gods called the daedric princes. And while most of them present themselves as human and act from a vaguely human perspective, some of them are quite lovecraftian in appearance and manner of thought. Mehrunes Dagon the god of change is a giant, four-armed, red monstrosity. Hermaeus Mora the god of knowledge is a floating blob of eyes and tentacles. And Sheogorath the god of madness shifts between benevolent and malevolent, happy and sad, just and unjust at his desire.
These beings might not be as alien as Lovecraft's creations, but I think they are fairly close to Lovecraft's horrors.


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## Roughdragon (Sep 23, 2016)

Miskatonic said:


> Just make it interesting and not derivative. Also don't try and ape the language Lovecraft used as most that do this fail miserably.



Yeah, I can understand that. Lovecraft's language is pretty hard to understand, and I probably shouldn't focus too much on the "Language" of the narration and scene-setting.


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## Roughdragon (Sep 23, 2016)

Banten said:


> I don't think it's out of place if done well. My favorite walking simulator, the elder scrolls series, has 2 main pantheons of gods. One of these pantheons consists of over a dozen demonic gods called the daedric princes. And while most of them present themselves as human and act from a vaguely human perspective, some of them are quite lovecraftian in appearance and manner of thought. Mehrunes Dagon the god of change is a giant, four-armed, red monstrosity. Hermaeus Mora the god of knowledge is a floating blob of eyes and tentacles. And Sheogorath the god of madness shifts between benevolent and malevolent, happy and sad, just and unjust at his desire.
> These beings might not be as alien as Lovecraft's creations, but I think they are fairly close to Lovecraft's horrors.



I didn't know that about skyrim, guess I was too busy shooting arrows at things


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## Ban (Sep 23, 2016)

Roughdragon said:


> I didn't know that about skyrim, guess I was too busy shooting arrows at things



I think most people were too busy playing the game to read the extensive lore, I'm just a weird gamer 

It is honestly ridiculous how much lore the elder scrolls series has, especially morrowind. Just to name some things that never get mentioned in the series. The Magna Ge: spirits who escaped the creation of the world and likely created the stars on their way out. The godhead: the supreme god above all other gods, in whose head the entire elder scrolls universe exists. CHIM: the realisation that someone is in the godhead's dream, which makes them a god. Zero summing: realising you're in the godhead's dream without remembering that you're an individual, which causes you to stop existing. Amaranth: Becoming the new godhead and recreating the universe. Lyg: a continent existing in the future that can be reached by sailing to the opposite side of the globe in a certain, unknown way.

I could go on and on about all the nonsense created by Bethesda that never gets mentioned in their games.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Sep 23, 2016)

Banten said:


> I think most people were too busy playing the game to read the extensive lore, I'm just a weird gamer
> 
> It is honestly ridiculous how much lore the elder scrolls series has, especially morrowind. Just to name some things that never get mentioned in the series. The Magna Ge: spirits who escaped the creation of the world and likely created the stars on their way out. The godhead: the supreme god above all other gods, in whose head the entire elder scrolls universe exists. CHIM: the realisation that someone is in the godhead's dream, which makes them a god. Zero summing: realising you're in the godhead's dream without remembering that you're an individual, which causes you to stop existing. Amaranth: Becoming the new godhead and recreating the universe. Lyg: a continent existing in the future that can be reached by sailing to the opposite side of the globe in a certain, unknown way.
> 
> I could go on and on about all the nonsense created by Bethesda that never gets mentioned in their games.



I love games with plenty of lore.


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## Ban (Sep 23, 2016)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> I love games with plenty of lore.



Fallout and elder scrolls all the way for you then! 


...well except fallout 3 and 4.


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## WooHooMan (Sep 23, 2016)

Banten said:


> I don't think it's out of place if done well. My favorite walking simulator, the elder scrolls series, has 2 main pantheons of gods. One of these pantheons consists of over a dozen demonic gods called the daedric princes. And while most of them present themselves as human and act from a vaguely human perspective, some of them are quite lovecraftian in appearance and manner of thought. Mehrunes Dagon the god of change is a giant, four-armed, red monstrosity. Hermaeus Mora the god of knowledge is a floating blob of eyes and tentacles. And Sheogorath the god of madness shifts between benevolent and malevolent, happy and sad, just and unjust at his desire.
> These beings might not be as alien as Lovecraft's creations, but I think they are fairly close to Lovecraft's horrors.



I firmly believe that Morrowind is the closest a video game has ever gotten to capturing Lovecraft's pathos.  Even video games that are directly based on Lovecraft's stuff isn't as Lovecraft as Morrowind.

Dagoth Ur (and his followers) are as Lovecraftian a monster as you could come-up with.  Horrifyingly mutated humanoids belonging to an underground cult and sprouting gibberish like "I dream the dreams of Lord Dagoth" reminds me of quite a few of HP's works.

Also, there was a side-quest in Oblivion that was a borderline adaption of Shadow Over Innsmouth.  Which implies that Sloads are the Deep Ones of the Elder Scrolls universe.

Man, Elder Scrolls is great!


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## Netardapope (Sep 24, 2016)

Hey, I think you'd be interested in reading the zothique cycle by Clark Ashton Smith. It's basically fantasy lovecraft. Also, I dabble in doing the same thing that you are. The main trick is that Lovecraftian  entities don't really care about anything that happens in the universe, due to their massive scope. So you shouldn't have to worry too much about their interference if you just make them a part of the backgroundm 

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk


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## ThinkerX (Sep 24, 2016)

Netardapope said:


> Hey, I think you'd be interested in reading the zothique cycle by Clark Ashton Smith. It's basically fantasy lovecraft. Also, I dabble in doing the same thing that you are. The main trick is that Lovecraftian  entities don't really care about anything that happens in the universe, due to their massive scope. So you shouldn't have to worry too much about their interference if you just make them a part of the backgroundm
> 
> Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk



Gah.  Lovecraft, Howard, and Clark Ashton Smith were all collaborators in creating the core of what is now the 'Cthulhu Mythos' - along with a few others such as Lieber (Fafhrd and Grey Mouser series) and Chambers (sort of, King in Yellow).

Most, but not all of the basic concepts/monsters came from Lovecraft, as did the frail academic hero types.  Howard, a boxer, came up with Conan and like heroes to actually best these abominations without going insane or getting slaughtered. And Clark Ashton Smith was an artist and poet who realized these entities need not be perpetually hostile to humans.  And a huge number of authors, including some of the greatest names (King) have either written mythos stories or borrowed heavily from them in the decades since then.


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## ChasingSuns (Sep 27, 2016)

WooHooMan said:


> Yes, it is.
> 
> They were in Conan.  And Lord of the Rings.  Look up the "Nameless Things".  Tolkien was a fan.



If I remember correctly, Conan is actually part of the Cthulhu Mythos. Robert E. Howard was part of the network of writers that Lovecraft kept in touch with through letters.


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## WooHooMan (Sep 27, 2016)

ChasingSuns said:


> If I remember correctly, Conan is actually part of the Cthulhu Mythos. Robert E. Howard was part of the network of writers that Lovecraft kept in touch with through letters.



You remember correctly.
It's really interesting if you compare Howard's monsters to Lovecraft's.  To the unhinged scholars of Arkham and Dunwich, those monsters are inconceivable terrors that must be avoided (or worshiped) but to Conan and his people, they are demons to be slain (or worshiped).
Just goes to show that fear is subjective.  One person's calamity is another person's obstacle.

But anyways, yeah, Tolkien was at least aware of Lovecraft and seemed to like his mythos.  It's assumed that the Nameless Things and perhaps monsters like Ugoliant (or however you spell it) took some ques from Lovecraft.


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## ChasingSuns (Sep 29, 2016)

WooHooMan said:


> You remember correctly.
> It's really interesting if you compare Howard's monsters to Lovecraft's.  To the unhinged scholars of Arkham and Dunwich, those monsters are inconceivable terrors that must be avoided (or worshiped) but to Conan and his people, they are demons to be slain (or worshiped).
> Just goes to show that fear is subjective.  One person's calamity is another person's obstacle.
> 
> But anyways, yeah, Tolkien was at least aware of Lovecraft and seemed to like his mythos.  It's assumed that the Nameless Things and perhaps monsters like Ugoliant (or however you spell it) took some ques from Lovecraft.



Yeah it's definitely interesting to see how characters in a different era react to similar circumstances. I second that Tolkien was acquainted with the works of Lovecraft.

There's also definitely some Lovecraft in ASoIaF. The Ironborn are a good example, with the worshiping of the Drowned God and saying "What is dead may never die", which is pretty directly derived from Lovecraft's "That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange aeons even death may die".

Magic: The Gathering also takes a lot of inspiration from Lovecraft, particularly with the Slivers, the Eldrazi, and the realm of Phyrexia.


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