# Cover Tryout for W.I.P.



## Graylorne (Feb 4, 2014)

Up to now I've spent lavishly on my books, but one has to be realistic and to continue spending big money on covers isn't economically viable. For my present w.i.p. I'm looking for a custom-made cover. These cost me about $70 apiece, that's 10% of my earlier covers...

Still, I'm not certain. I found three different covers and I post them here to ask your opinions.

The first one could symbolize a book that's important in the story, the second either the young Warlocky or his opponent, the third is just an image. A, B, or C, which one should it be?

NB The choice of fonts is rather meager; the first two are chelsea, the third is palomino. Colors go by hex code. 

Thanks for your input!


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## CupofJoe (Feb 4, 2014)

C is the Biohazard symbol. When I see it in fiction I usually assume it usually means Zombies ahead....
Of the other two... I think A looks better. Can't give an argued reason as to why, just I like it more than B [I feel I've seen that or something similar before].


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## Graylorne (Feb 4, 2014)

CupofJoe said:


> C is the Biohazard symbol. When I see it in fiction I usually assume it usually means Zombies ahead....
> Of the other two... I think A looks better. Can't give an argued reason as to why, just I like it more than B [I feel I've seen that or something similar before].



Zombies! Yech, no. C 's out, then. I didn't even know that, having avoided zombies like the plague  Revenants and wedergÃ¤nger are another thing, of course. Thanks for the warning.


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## CupofJoe (Feb 4, 2014)

Graylorne said:


> Revenants and wedergÃ¤nger are another thing, of course. Thanks for the warning.


A pleasure.
I've always preferred a Dybbuk. You can have a real conversation with them...


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## Aidan of the tavern (Feb 4, 2014)

B is more instantly eye catching (I often prefer books with character images), but as you said, A might be a nice reflection of a story object.  Needless to say, zombies are out.  Go with your instinct, I slightly prefer B simply because its character based and contemplative, but they're both good.


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## Asterisk (Feb 4, 2014)

C _really_ caught my eye first... that's the kind of cover that I couldn't just walk past. I would stop to pick it up.
But zombies aren't my thing either. 

So my second choice would be B. They are all fantastic, though!


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## GroundedTraveler (Feb 4, 2014)

As mentioned, definitely avoid the image for C. Unless you have a bio-wizard. 

I like the text for A the best. The contrast is nice, though a bit small.


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## Caged Maiden (Feb 4, 2014)

Okay... I'll tell you what I think on all three.

A, is sort of intriguing because it looks like a spellbook, but not specifically a Book of Shadows, so I'd imagine it's a story about  a young wizard, maybe an apprentice, who is going to grow through the (heavily focused on magic) story. 

B, looks like a story about wizards, probably powerful and wrapped up in a tale about the world because it looks like a ruin in the background.  I'd expect to see a quest and maybe the revelation of some sort of dark secret for which the wizard had to quest? 

C, is very eye-catching, but yeah, it's a modern symbol.  HOWEVER, if you could change that symbol to maybe a rune, rather than the Biohazard symbol?  It would tell me the book is about maybe an an ancient arcane power.  Perhaps a young wizard stumbles on an ancient secret, or for whatever reason, some mysterious power is released.  

Okay, so rather than telling you which I liked best, I tried to help you make a decision based on the impressions they left me with.  I'd want my cover to give a potential reader a hint of what the book is about.

I'm struggling with this myself, right now, and while I'm talented enough to paint a cover myself, I'm not really sure which direction to go in.  I certainly hope my impressions have helped you make the decision.


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## Graylorne (Feb 4, 2014)

I think, reading all your reactions, I'm beginning to see my way.

CM, your way of looking at it is very helpful. C. is out; these are ready-made covers, so nothing can be changed. 
B. A conflict between mages is very much in line with the story. A. It Could be a spellbook, containing a spell my warlocky desperately needs.

All your kind reactions lessened my fear that these designs weren't good enough. So I can use them both.
B. for Warlocky, because it fits the story best.
A. for Grimoires, which is the 4th book in my Revenaunt-series. (It's about a mage who has to recover several dangerous spellbooks that were lost). That will be a breach of style with my earlier covers, but that can't be helped.


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## Graylorne (Feb 5, 2014)

Well, I've made a definite choice re. the images. The colors and dimensions can be changed. 
I chose blue and white, because that's conversally the same as the lettering of my first three Revenaunt colors. 
The Warlocky coloring is purposedly different.

Would this be acceptable, clear enough, professional enough, etc?

Personally, I don't find the images bad at all. They're from the site of SelfPubBookCovers, who have a large stock, Only their layout-program is still in beta and it doesn't work well. I made the text of two Revenaunt covers in Photoshop.


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## Graylorne (Feb 8, 2014)

I have here a fourth design, adapted to suit the third Shardfall book. It is totally different from the first two covers. 

Personally, I'd put the main title in line with the other books. I can imagine the artist didn't, as he added the design on the stone on request, but it would make a big difference.

I'd *very* much appreciate some comments!


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## Svrtnsse (Feb 8, 2014)

I'd change the text on the new design to match that of the first two books. It feels weird that you have such similar designs of the first two while the third one is completely different. If it hadn't actually said "book three" at the bottom I wouldn't have thought it was the same series.
If it's an option I would change the image to something in the style of the first two books as well. Is there a reason you've chosen to go with such a different design for the third part or am I missing something?


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## Graylorne (Feb 8, 2014)

The most mundane reason of all, I'm afraid. Cost.
I've been spending like mad on the first four books, but to be able to keep on publishing I must lower my ambition. 

Pity, the image itself depicts what I want. Firy cave, standing stone, mage, blue power. But the difference is pretty big, in this case.

With the Revenaunt books (the earlier images) that doesn't matter, because I'm writing Vavaun and Grimoires both as semi-standalones. But Shardheld is the final part of a trilogy. 

I had thought to do the 'Shardheld' font in green. The designer made it blue, but I can change that back. 

If that doesn't work, I have no alternative but to have my Dutch artist make the third cover after all.


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## Svrtnsse (Feb 8, 2014)

Cost is a valid reason. I can't argue that (and I don't even know the sums you've spent). The first two covers really are significantly better than the third one though. 
If nothing else, I would recommend you go with the same font and text layout as the two original books. That way you will at least keep a visual link to the previous two books. Ideally I would say go with the old artist and save on future covers, but I guess you've already considered that and decided against it or it wouldn't be an issue.

It's a tough decision to make and I don't envy you having to make it. Make sure to wait a bit for the feedback of others as well.


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## TWErvin2 (Feb 8, 2014)

I agree with *Svrtnsse* that at least keeping the font, and as much of the layout as possible the same will benefit in linking the novels together as a series.


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## Graylorne (Feb 8, 2014)

TW and Svertnsse:

I can't do that myself; no idea what font it is. But I haven't ok'd the image, so I'll ask the SelfPubBookCover-gentleman how it should look like. I didn't do that at first, from fear this would be an infringement of copyright, or something like that.

A rough photoshop would give an impression:


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## Svrtnsse (Feb 8, 2014)

There are two options for the font. Try Identifont - Identify fonts by appearance, find fonts by name and see if you can find it there. They have a tool that lets you identify a font based on questions about how the individual letters look.
The other option is to copy the letters one by one from the two first books. All of the letters in Shardheld appear in either Shardfall or Runemaster. 

You do bring up an important issue with the copyright though. It may be that there are issues there that need to be considered, so it may be worth asking first.


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## GroundedTraveler (Feb 8, 2014)

I agree that it makes better sense to have the fonts and colors match through the third book. I like the yellow lined green of Runemaster better than the more "shimmery" of the first book. 
If possible, ask if the artist can "zoom out" or slide the picture for Shardheld a bit, letting the fire fade into black near the top. Then you should be able to put your name in white without the textshadow effect. It would also push the design on the stone below the title a bit, both letting it be more visible and not interfering with the title itself.


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## TWErvin2 (Feb 8, 2014)

You would want some room (bleed?) between your name and the top of the cover if you're going to release this title in print format. If you have the lettering right up to the edge (side, top or bottom) there is a chance it could get clipped slightly.


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## Graylorne (Feb 10, 2014)

I just got the last adaption back.

Not the same font for the main title; I do think that could be problematic. And as the first two were made by my Dutch editor, I don't want bad blood. Besides, the font of the first two book will be tightened a bit, to make them better readable in thumbnails. 

The whole is less fiery, but I can adapt that in the story. This is definitely better.

I'd like the text lines a bit lower, but I can do that myself.

What's your opinion?


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## Svrtnsse (Feb 10, 2014)

I think the new version is a lot better. I don't mind that it's less yellow-y as it doesn't clash as much with the glow around the silhouette of the character. Lowering the text to be in line with the other two ones would be an improvement too.

I still think that compared to the other two covers the third one is inferior, but at least it's better than it was.


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## ThinkerX (Feb 10, 2014)

My take, for what little it may be worth:

The image on the cover for book 3 is far and away the most striking.

The first two, not so much. They remind me very strongly of the book covers from the 70's and 80's.  The poses (to me, anyhow) look stilted, and there are too many figures.  The flying creature (dragon? dinosaur?) in book 2 looks particularly awkwardly placed.

Suggestions:

Book One - guy with the green fire from the waist or chest up, hands before him about a foot apart, green fire arcing between them, angry expression.  Or maybe leave his head out of it all together.

Book Two - guy with the shield, facing away from the viewer, outlined in green fire, suggestion of mountains in the background.  Or maybe just the shield, again outlined in the green fire, with maybe a sword and another weapon or two across it, or in the shadows nearby. Maybe one of these other weapons should look charred or even broken.


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## Graylorne (Feb 12, 2014)

I'm not fully finished puzzling. 

I have at present the covers (B), but starting with book 4 of this series, I'm going with the upper right images (Grimoires/Vavaun) from series A. 
The difference in style between A and B is glaring.

I've made a selection of available pre-made covers to possibly replace the original three (B) as well. It's a slight extra investment, but it would look better.

Besides, I'm not sure the original style is really suitable for the international market, but that's more a gut-feeling.

I would like your opinion on this. Which of the two choices would *you *prefer?


NB The fonts have to be fine-tuned, but to do that efficiently I would have to buy the covers already.









A. The replacements






B. The present covers


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## stephenspower (Feb 12, 2014)

The branding is in the fonts. They should all be the same size and have the same placement; they shouldn't just fit the way they are here. You might give them a metallic outline; the shadow isn't really holding in place. Are your books pale blue in character? Only Connery could pull of pale blue when it came to his terry cloth robe, and then just barely. The series title/book should go on top in a stylized band or box of some sort (like a D&D or Warhammer novel). Your name should go at the bottom. At this point, the series is the selling point, not the author. No offense. I really like that banner on the original cover of Ordelanden. Perhaps you could adapt that.

Can the guy on the new Ordelanden be shrunk too, to the size of the other characters? And Zihaen should have a person too, that being the series look. It'll also look more recognizable when shrunk to a thumbnail.


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## Graylorne (Feb 13, 2014)

The font didn't work as I wanted in the previous example. 

Now I tried some book cover design software, and after a while this was the result. I'm not fully happy with the text on the spine, but all in all it is a book cover.

And it's another step to independence.


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## Nihal (Feb 13, 2014)

My internet is still bad, forgive me if I'm repeating already know information.

Your author/taglines font is Trajan Pro, possibly in the bold weight. Your book title font is Scurlock, maybe bold too. 

The title has a stroke effect on the top of a soft dropshadow. The other texts have a really soft dropshadow only. The trick here is to use the shadows only enough to make it readable, if it's obscuring the image behind them it's too much already. Try to keep the same spacing and font sizing of the previous covers, and I'm sorry if I'm mentioning changes you've already done, I can't load the last cover here.

I use WhatTheFont for fonts identification. If you have a proper sample–white background, black text in a big enough image–it locates the font family in nearly all the cases. Trajan was easy to find, Scurlock was a bigger challenge, but I identified both with this tool.


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## Graylorne (Feb 13, 2014)

Thanks, Nihal, for the search! That opens up other possibilities, so I'glad to have both fonts identified.

At the moment I'm trying out alternatives, like the one in my previous post. Pre-made covers - I'll never be an artist, I'm afraid. I absolutely lack the patience (and the talent).


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## stephenspower (Feb 13, 2014)

The title on top isn't as good as the title across the guy's knees and thighs. It actually feels a bit old school YA this way.

Your back cover is upside down too. The copy should go on top with a headline, preferably a blurb next, then the copy. The paragraphs should either be first line indented or all should have spaces between them. Your bio and picture should go at the bottom, and there's no reason for the former to be in bold. Red Rune is taking up too much room as well.

As for the spine, while I'm a proponent for full names on spines, I think you're wasting valuable real estate with your first name. drop it and your middle initial and instead put the face of the guy on the front in a box either at the top or between your name and the series title.  Seeing as all but one of your books have a face (and the other should), this will give the spines an identity on the shelf. Similarly, put the 5 rightside up (instead of along the spine) in a box or circle between the series title and the title. Right now it looks like a dingbat. Again that will give the buyer easier info while browsing. Let's face it, 99% of books are sold spine-out, so consider the spine your front cover. Note: this sounds good in my head, but it may look too busy in reality.


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## Graylorne (Feb 13, 2014)

Added the head to the spine... The title on two lines makes it a bit compacter. The book will be 6" x 9", so it will be big enough.
Changed around the blurb / bio.
I've tried the no. 5 standing, but that reminded me how publishers used to number their books, long ago. With two lines, the dingbat effect is gone.
Too many lines and indents make the text visually chaotic.


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## stephenspower (Feb 13, 2014)

It's getting there. What if on the back cover you made Vavaum the headline, and changed the description to be more evocative: "A pocket-sized dukedom, where illegal magic and corruption have [something or other]." That will give you more room to discuss the heroes' story, which also could be more evocative. They can't just be going home to check things out. What drives them there? Is Darkmouth a recurring character? Essentially, how would you summarize the first third of the story in 150 words to encourage readers to read the other two thirds? And the book's either standalone or it's not. 

I think the copy should be in yellow and you bio in unbolded white. And that picture seems pretty large. Do you have any blurbs or review quotes for the previous books that could go on the back?

I like the box around Red Rune. 

That's pretty thin for 6x9. Would you bring it down to 5ish x 8ish to give it some more bulk?


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## Ireth (Feb 13, 2014)

Not to pick at nits here, but there are a few grammatical errors in your back-cover blurb. You switch back and forth between past and present tense. "Things *appear* not well", "Damion and Uwella *hear* stories", "illegal magics that *worry* them", "they *are* embroiled". (I'm assuming you're aiming for present tense, as most back-cover blurbs seem to be.)


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## Graylorne (Feb 14, 2014)

Apologies for the blurb; I wrote it down as some _lorem ipsum_ filler. Still, I should have taken care of the grammar first .

Great suggestion, stephenspower, to change the book format. I agree they're looking less than robust and this is the perfect chance. But that's a lot of work, with six titles, so it needs some thought first.

I have more review quotes, I'll add them later.

This particular book isn't finished being written yet. I chose it because I already had bought the cover image and now it'll serve as model for the others.

NB. Just bought the bookcoverpro software I made this cover in, and I got 20% Valentine's Day reduction. Is that a lucky omen?


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## stephenspower (Feb 14, 2014)

i never realized there was bookcover software. huh. good to know.


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## Nihal (Feb 15, 2014)

*Now* I can see everything! Write down the old fonts names, you know, just in case you need that info in the future.

Regarding your change in the covers styles, it's a good change. The older ones look dated. That's not necessarily a bad thing, they certainly attract readers interested in a story style of a specific time period, however, it discourages regular readers and I'm not sure if this trade off is worth it. Thinking on international market was a wise move on your part.


Title and Cover

My advice is to experiment with white and off-white colors on the text for your cover. You can't go wrong with white or black. Right now your cover looks a tad too brown/yellow. Another thing that works wonders is to combine a serifed typography with a sans serif (or a more sober serif).


Back Cover Elements

Add a bit more negative space around your photo  on the back and make the text wrap around it, the gap underneath it looks random. You can move the barcode and the logo down, they're aligned to nothing and unnecessarily high, also, get them to align themselves on their bottom line. If it's possible to turn off the cropping and bleed marks do it from time to time to verify how the spacing and alignment of elements on the cover really look.


Back Cover Text

The paragraph rules for the content are valid for the back cover, you either indent new paragraphs or add a space between them. The space seems to be preferred by many houses for it makes the blurb readable. If you vary the font size for these sections it'll look more readable as well, also, avoid whole long paragraphs in bold style.

If you, let's say, keep the blurb 2pt+ bigger than your bio then centered this quote and increased its size to something near your name on the front cover it's likely to look fresher due the size variation. You could also try the typography variation trick here, serifed for the blurb, sans-serif to the bio, bigger serif for the quote.


Spine

It was more readable on its previous version. You don't have much space here, so I'm not sure if a double lined approach is the best choice. Also, does the series identification really need to have the same weight this particular book title has? A reader looking forward identifying a particular book has to skip all the way down this sub title.


I hope any of these advices helps. I got a little carried away, uh?


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## Graylorne (Feb 15, 2014)

Thank you, Nihal! Get carried away as much as you like; this is great advice,

I was afraid the covers were too outdated. It was on purpose, but if it doesn't work it must be changed.
This will be delicate, though. I just received the third cover (English version) from the illustrator, after pushing him for two months to get it done... He's my Dutch publisher as well, and terribly busy. So I can't change over immediately.

I'll use the time to prepare all the replacement covers and change all manuscripts from 6"x9" to 5.06"x7.81". Then I can change over all at once.

I was thinking of doing the title color (in this case yellow) for every book in another color.

I will play a little with suitable fonts and all your other suggestions. This is a great help!


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## Graylorne (Feb 16, 2014)

For the moment I’m finished making replacement covers. These are all for the Revenaunt-series (I need 2 for Shardfall too, but I’m still thinking on that).  All in all I’ve spent money, but much less than I would have on the original covers. To give an idea: I now have 3 replacement covers + 4 brand new covers for the price of one Shardheld cover plus $ 100. I should have done this from the start.

Anyhow, here they are. Though I got lots of great advise already, comments are still welcome.

I added a dark bar behind the main front title. This makes it better readable, and it allowed me to lower the Ordelanden picture, to get the knight’s face from behind the text.


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## Graylorne (Feb 16, 2014)

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## stephenspower (Feb 17, 2014)

Nice! And because I need to have 10 characters, let me repeat, nice!


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