# The ethics of reviewing



## BWFoster78 (Jul 17, 2012)

I kinda put myself in a bad position.

A good friend, one who has helped me out a lot in my writing, self published a book on Amazon.  I told him I'd buy it, read it, and give him a review.  

His style and mine differ a bit, so I wasn't expecting the book to be great.  I have read a decent amount of his stuff in the past, however, and it's not terrible.  

This book, while not complete excrement, did not exactly inspire me to write a great review.  Do I:

1) Neglect to write the review (ignore a problem and it will go away)
2) Write an honest review (honesty is the best policy, and an honest review, in the long run, does the most good)
3) Write a glowing review (friendship trumps the suckers I lead to buy the book)
4) Find a middle ground with the review, being positive but also noting the weak points (not sure how to even do this)

What say you?


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## Ireth (Jul 17, 2012)

I think you should be honest about it, personally. Do point out its weaknesses politely, but find its strengths as well.


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## nlough (Jul 17, 2012)

I have to agree with Ireth. It's better to be honest about it. Talk about the good and the bad. When I want a friend to review something I write, I want their honest opinion so I can learn from my mistakes and figure out what I need to fix and work on.


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## Steerpike (Jul 17, 2012)

Tell your friend how you feel about it and ask him whether he prefers that you write an honest review or forego the review.


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## Ankari (Jul 17, 2012)

I would review his book and send him the notes of your review to him.  Let me have a chance to measure your words, weigh their effect on his story, and accept or dismiss them accordingly.  Every writer would rather have bad criticism reach them first, to be given a chance or correction, before the the criticism becomes public.


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## psychotick (Jul 17, 2012)

Hi,

I'd agree with Ankari. Do an honest review, show it to him, and then ask him if he thinks its fair or not, or if he wants you to post it. He may agree with your points, or not. He may revise the book or not. That's all up to him. The best you can do is give him your honest opinion and then give him the choice.

Cheers, Greg.


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## Ghost (Jul 17, 2012)

Steerpike said:


> Tell your friend how you feel about it and ask him whether he prefers that you write an honest review or forego the review.



Yeah, I'd go with something like this as well. I'd like a heads up if I was on the other side of the situation.


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## Penpilot (Jul 17, 2012)

I agree, be honest, but give your friend the choice of whether the review goes up or not.


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## BWFoster78 (Jul 17, 2012)

There seems to be a consensus.  It's a good way to handle it.  That's what I'll do.


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## Shockley (Jul 17, 2012)

My personal strategy on this would be to give a high numeric review (assuming Amazon allows this) while letting him know my concerns in private.


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## BeigePalladin (Jul 17, 2012)

be honest its better in the end. lying hurts everyone involved, and giving him a review will actually help him improve


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## JonSnow (Jul 17, 2012)

All good advice above, so I'm not going to add to it... instead, I'm going to say this is why its a bad idea for friends and/or relatives to be used for reviews and editing. I used to have my girlfriend(s) read my reading, and for some reason they always "liked" it, but I never did. Eventually I figured out they just didn't want to criticize it. Whether you are the writer or the reader, its a no win situation if the writing isn't good. You are left with the choice of writing a falsely good review, or hurting someone's feelings.


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## Devor (Jul 17, 2012)

Depending on how good or bad it actually is, you might give him a mostly positive review that still acknowledges the main criticisms, even if you're approaching him first.

Another thing to consider, before you talk to him, is whether your opinion is being clouded by anything. If your expectations were too high, it is possible the book is better than you think it is. Not sure the chances of that.


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## BWFoster78 (Jul 18, 2012)

Devor said:


> Depending on how good or bad it actually is, you might give him a mostly positive review that still acknowledges the main criticisms, even if you're approaching him first.
> 
> Another thing to consider, before you talk to him, is whether your opinion is being clouded by anything. If your expectations were too high, it is possible the book is better than you think it is. Not sure the chances of that.



I didn't have high expectations going in.  

It wasn't horrible; it just wasn't that good.  The book did draw me in a couple of times, but I found myself just wanting to get through a lot of the chapters.


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## Chilari (Jul 18, 2012)

JonSnow said:


> All good advice above, so I'm not going to add to it... instead, I'm going to say this is why its a bad idea for friends and/or relatives to be used for reviews and editing. I used to have my girlfriend(s) read my reading, and for some reason they always "liked" it, but I never did. Eventually I figured out they just didn't want to criticize it. Whether you are the writer or the reader, its a no win situation if the writing isn't good. You are left with the choice of writing a falsely good review, or hurting someone's feelings.



Generally I'd agree with you. But my mum is a writer too and always manages to hit the nail on the head with feedback; and my fiancÃ© is a critical thinker who is very good at fairly and logically pointing out problems with my storylines and helps me think about what story I'm telling before I've got all the bits worked out. So it depends on their experience of writing and the dynamics of the relationship. Additionally when people you know are involved you know what they're like as reviewers/critiquers. Having said that as a writer it's sometimes all to easy to take valid criticism from someone you know more personally, and see it more objectively from a relative stranger.

In a situation like that BW is in, I would not show the review to the author. I don't see the integrity in that, because a review that is approved by the author is a review that can potentially be censored by the author, which gives the potential readers a biased/author-approved set of reviews. In this situation I would write a generally positive review which nevertheless mentions the two or three largest concerns and post it without talking to the author, but at the same time talk to the author going into the main problems in a little more detail.


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## Ankari (Jul 18, 2012)

You're right, Chilari.  That is why I suggest giving the aithor a full critique of his book so he has the chance ro adjust the story.  If he decides to keep it the same, then it's not BWFoster78's fault when he leaves a review o the Amazon that is unflattering.


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## Kit (Jul 18, 2012)

I would do the same thing I do with anything I'm asked to review: find some good things and some bad things to say. No matter how good it is, there is always room for improvement; no matter how bad it is, I can find *something* to like. 

No one wants their creative ego squashed cruelly. Furthermore, we are often more open to hearing (and employing) the "improvement opportunities" suggestions if they are served with a spoonful of sugar. When someone has *nothing* good to say, I for one tend to feel a little defensive. There are some people who just get off on being nasty, and some of those people are just not worth listening to.


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## Zophos (Jul 18, 2012)

Hammer him. Sugar coating it will only mean you'll have to read more tripe later.

Let's face it, there are very few books on the SP market that are worth a shit. I have the opinion that many of those are the result of candy striped reviews that don't really address the real weaknesses of those authors. 

$0.02


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## T.Allen.Smith (Jul 18, 2012)

Zophos said:
			
		

> Hammer him. Sugar coating it will only mean you'll have to read more tripe later.
> 
> Let's face it, there are very few books on the SP market that are worth a shit. I have the opinion that many of those are the result of candy striped reviews that don't really address the real weaknesses of those authors.
> 
> $0.02



I have to agree. A tender hearted review, although well-intentioned, is of little value. When I go to critique groups I want people to shred my work. Seeing flaws, regardless of how many or how harsh the delivery, improves the work & helps me grow as a writer.

Another thing a fully honest review does is help an author grow a thick skin. If they can't take a harsh critique then they probably shouldn't be a writer.


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## T.Allen.Smith (Jul 18, 2012)

Sorry, hit enter too early..... Continuing:

I say give him both barrels. The other aspect to this is that this person is a friend. The only thing worse than asking a friend to do a review is asking your mother to review your work. She's gonna love it no matter what.


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## Steerpike (Jul 18, 2012)

T.Allen.Smith said:


> I have to agree. A tender hearted review, although well-intentioned, is of little value. When I go to critique groups I want people to shred my work. Seeing flaws, regardless of how many or how harsh the delivery, improves the work & helps me grow as a writer.
> 
> Another thing a fully honest review does is help an author grow a thick skin. If they can't take a harsh critique then they probably shouldn't be a writer.



I agree with both of you. If you have to go out of your way to water down an honest review with good points here and there, you're really creating a false impression to the author. Your desire to attenuate the impact of the negative comments is going to do just that. But you don't want to lessen the impact of the negative comments, in my opinion. Those comments are the ones that are going to help the author. The positive things you search out and throw in to try to balance things out aren't going to do a damn thing when it comes to making the author a better writer.

If there are positives worth mentioning, then great. You want to reinforce those. But if you are searching for positives just to balance out what is a negative view, thereby lessening the negatives, you aren't doing anyone any favors.


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## Kit (Jul 19, 2012)

Call me softhearted, but I maintain that the majority of people are going to have a hard time truly listening to and learning from a "both barrels" review. They're either going to be hurt and blow you off ("That ***hole,"), or be hurt and develop such crippling self doubt that they can't write a thing without constantly groping for validation, or be hurt and quit writing altogether. If you truly want to help the person improve, you have wasted your time three ways right there. I guess if you don't give a crap about people's feelings (even your friends), two of those have at least accomplished your true personal goal of helping rid the universe of all that evil dross. Congratulations, here's your shiny superhero cape.

If you're one of the rare persons who works hard on a creative child of your heart and actually doesn't mind- and learns in a practical way- from having people skewer it, that's great for you. But one of the valuable things we learn from evoking different characters is that everybody is not us, and they all don't feel/react the same way as we do. It's only compassionate- and practical too- to stop and consider how the other guy feels before you nuke him.

YMMV as always.


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## Steerpike (Jul 19, 2012)

Kit, I think a lot of it depends on the presentation as well. Even if I give a review that is mostly negative, because the work I am reviewing simply isn't well done, I will say it in a way that makes it clear the criticism is meant to be constructive. It is provided with good intentions, and hopefully will be taken that way.

My own feeling is that if I present something that is truly godawful, I'd like to no about it in no uncertain terms, and I don't get much benefit out of someone sugar-coating it.

I do also try to take into consideration the age and experience of the person whose work I am reviewing. The same review might be provided differently to a kid who is just starting out and trying to learn versus someone who has been at it twenty years and should be able to take blunt but well-intentioned comments.


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## T.Allen.Smith (Jul 19, 2012)

Kit said:
			
		

> Call me softhearted, but I maintain that the majority of people are going to have a hard time truly listening to and learning from a "both barrels" review. They're either going to be hurt and blow you off ("That ***hole,"), or be hurt and develop such crippling self doubt that they can't write a thing without constantly groping for validation, or be hurt and quit writing altogether. If you truly want to help the person improve, you have wasted your time three ways right there. I guess if you don't give a crap about people's feelings (even your friends), two of those have at least accomplished your true personal goal of helping rid the universe of all that evil dross. Congratulations, here's your shiny superhero cape.
> 
> If you're one of the rare persons who works hard on a creative child of your heart and actually doesn't mind- and learns in a practical way- from having people skewer it, that's great for you. But one of the valuable things we learn from evoking different characters is that everybody is not us, and they all don't feel/react the same way as we do. It's only compassionate- and practical too- to stop and consider how the other guy feels before you nuke him.
> 
> YMMV as always.



So just to be clear here, the OP stated that this is a friend who has helped him a lot with his writing & has recently published something through Amazon. We're not talking about a beginning writer that should be given the critique with the goal of encouragement in mind. We're discussing how to critique someone's work that considers himself, on some level, to be an experienced writer. Given those circumstances I stand by the opinion that only a truly honest critique is valuable to that friend.
If we were discussing a review for a beginner or an adolescent, then yes, maybe a softer touch meant to encourage would be better suited.

Now, as I said before, this is one of the reasons friends and family often make terrible critique readers. They care about the writer's feelings. 

If an experienced writer can't handle constructive criticism & opinions then they're in the wrong business. I understand your empathy & need to deliver critique with a velvet touch but consider if you're doing the author justice by softening your judgment of their work.


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## Chilari (Jul 19, 2012)

It is possible to be honest and constructive while still using a positive tone and seeking to protect a friend's feelings. One does not have to be rude to give detailed criticism. I don't advocate holding back honest criticism out of fear someone will be hurt, but you can be nice about it. You don't need to be brutal to be helpful.


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## SunshineEve (Jul 19, 2012)

Talk to your friend first. You can discuss what you didn't like about the book (and preferably something that you liked, too) and then ask him if he still wants you to write that review. It might give him a chance to explain some things, for example, give you background information about the setting of the story or the characters, or anything else that comes to mind. It wouldn't improve the book or your view of it, but it would show him that you really value his opinion, friendship and, of course, writing.

Plus, learning how to handle criticism is a part of any writer's life. I once printed out a Chapter One of my novel for my read and gave her a red pen with it. There was a lot of red on the pages afterwards, but it was really helpful. Honesty works.


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## kennyc (Jul 19, 2012)

Steerpike said:


> Tell your friend how you feel about it and ask him whether he prefers that you write an honest review or forego the review.



This!



.


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## Zophos (Jul 19, 2012)

First of all, if your friend can even get an honest review from a reviewer that can speak to their use of literary devices, plot development, tone, point of view and perspective, mechanics, title intent, incorporation of minor themes, narrative structure, rhythm, rising and declining action, et al, he's pretty damn lucky. I'd be happy to have a critic who would and could do that and do so objectively, without malice and regardless of personal preferences based on genre.

I've long suspected that many of the 5-star reviews you run across on Amazon are complete fluff and the reviewer is little more than a shill for the writer. I generally refine my search of reviews for works and go straight to the bottom because those are more likely to be easily categorized into quackery or legitimate concern about the book I'm about to buy. 

I realize I said hammer the guy, but that was more to stand apart from the rest of the "spoon full of sugar/medicine go down" opinions in this thread. Of course you don't have to outright attack the guy. He's your writing accomplice for goodness sake. You still owe it to him to be objective and truthful. It's your responsibility in your relationship with him to be forthcoming in your reservations about the work.

Concur with Mr. Smith that it doesn't sound like you're talking to someone new to writing. If he's not and he hasn't been living in a closet for the entirety of his writing "career" he should be pretty good at taking criticism.


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## BWFoster78 (Jul 19, 2012)

Thanks again for all the advice.

A point of consideration that I don't think anyone has addressed:

He recently published this book.  There are no other reviews posted.

Thanks.


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