# Word-count per chapter: is there a range we should stick to?



## Legendary Sidekick (Nov 6, 2011)

I was just talking to one of the directors at my school. She is a published author (nonfiction). On Friday, she told me that her editor told her to keep her chapters around 3500 words.

After taking part in trigger challenge #3--which is not my first 500-word-max writing challenge--I find that 500 words in a scene is a decent number. Just long enough to set the stage, introduce a character, and surprise the reader. After looking at a file for my first book, I average 500 words per scene, unless there is action. Action scenes exceed 1000 words. My first is 1494 words.

Anyway... my concern: I get carried away and don't break chapters enough. So, my question: is there a general rule of thumb regarding chapter length? Or in plainer terms:
*How long should a chapter be?*


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## Elder the Dwarf (Nov 6, 2011)

I know a lot of people love short chapters since it gives people more natural stopping points.  I believe there was a similar thread and the consensus there was to stop chapters at a good stopping point, not at a specific word count.  

That being said, I have a question to add.  Do you think all the chapters have to be roughly the same length, or can you have shorter chapters and longer ones?  My second chapter is significantly shorter than my first, and I think I might have to combine my second and third chapters, but I like the stopping points I have established.


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## Legendary Sidekick (Nov 6, 2011)

I have 2 "mini-chapters" that are ~2000 words. My other chapters average ~9000 words.

I agree that a chapter = a chain of events, not a certain number of words. On the other hand, if my chapters tend to be 9000+ words, and the preferred count is more like 3500-7500, I wonder if I should pare down and/or split chapters.


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## Kaellpae (Nov 6, 2011)

Length of the chapter when I read doesn't matter, as long as it has a good stopping point and/or tells us what we need to know then I'd say it's a fine length. I'm sure going from a 50 page chapter to a 3 page chapter would seem strange, but if that 3 page chapter does its job, then that's fine.


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## Devor (Nov 6, 2011)

I think I posted this somewhere before, but I personally find it frustrating when the chapters aren't the same length, or at least, when some chapters run significantly longer than others.  After a certain point they start to feel their length, and you end up turning pages wondering when it's going to end.

I find a good scene length runs 2-5 pages, depending on how much is really going on.


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## Elder the Dwarf (Nov 6, 2011)

Mine aren't that drastic (and are much shorter than yours so far, Sidekick) but right now I have one at a little over three thousand and another at about 1.8.


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## Legendary Sidekick (Nov 6, 2011)

Interesting that you're able to stay below 3500, Elder! (I mean this as a compliment.)

Looking at my first long chapter (10.6K), I can split it EXACTLY in half. The first 5.3K words are nine scenes alternating between the main character and _other important characters_. We start with the main character getting hired as a superhero's sidekick, and end with him helping his superhero boss in a scuffle with some gang-bangers. The next 5.3K focus on one of those _other important characters_. The main character's not even in this half of the chapter... so there's a no-brainer! I have two chapters!

Wow... now I'm sure a rewrite/revision will be worth the effort!


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## Devor (Nov 6, 2011)

Legendary Sidekick said:


> Wow... now I'm sure a rewrite/revision will be worth the effort!



If it's reasonably good now, give it to someone who's kind of good at this before you rewrite.  The real input would be invaluable.  If it's not reasonably good now, someone who knows their stuff will likely stop within a couple of pages.

You can tell if they're good because they do more than dicker over how a few sentences are constructed, which is sort of the last phase of editing, and a complete waste of time given the size of the work and the scale of a rewrite.

Even if you only got feedback on a couple of chapters it would worth it.


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## Legendary Sidekick (Nov 6, 2011)

Well, feedback's been 90+% positive, but it's the one guy who was critical who made me think "rewrite." While I haven't written any novels in three years, I've grown as a writer (through shorter works).

I figured if I'm going to get back into writing my Legendary Sidekick series, I'd like to consider McGinty's points and revise my debut before continuing the series.


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## Devor (Nov 6, 2011)

Reading McGinty's review, it sounds like there's a lot of potential in the work.  In my limited experience, creative people need someone to help filter and focus their creativity.  It's too easy to get wrapped up in ideas and lose sight of which ones are working or when something starts to go overboard.

If your feedback has been very positive, I would NOT suggest rewriting unless you had found someone to help you tap that potential.  Of course, I'm saying that having not read more than the science lesson you posted.


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## Benjamin Clayborne (Nov 6, 2011)

I remember reading Alex Haley's _Roots_ (in 7th grade, oh yeah) and being confused why some chapters were like half a page long and others were dozens of pages long.

Anyway, it depends on the purpose of chapters in your work. In my WIP, each chapter is told from the POV of one character, and is intended to function as a mini-story within the context of the larger story. The character's current status is introduced, with any backstory needed to catch the reader up since the last time we saw them. The character's goals are established (or elaborated upon), and a dilemma or conflict is introduced (or expanded upon). Eventually, the conflict is (partially or completely) resolved, the character does or does not get what they want, and the chapter ends.  The important core element here is that the character develops in some way: they change a little, they learn something, they accomplish something, they are thwarted in something, their relationship with another character evolves in some way.  If none of those things happen (or too many), the chapter length is wrong.

The other choice is to end the chapter on a cliffhanger, which I try not to do too often, and in most cases the cliffhanger is immediately dealt with in the next chapter, which is from a different character's point of view.  Although in two places, there are two chapters in a row that feature the same POV character, for the simple reason that the chapters would be much too long if not split in two.  I don't consider it a problem for these double-chapters to spend so much time with the same character, because they really are one long story section.

I would say that, at its simplest, everything in a chapter needs to be _thematically_ related. A chapter can feature multiple POV characters, if they're all dealing with the same event or idea. A chapter can cover a wide time period, if it's thematically about change in the character's life, or even just as a bridge structure between two major story sections.

Ultimately, the length of a chapter should depend directly on answering the following question: Is this good storytelling? If it's hard to read because of the chapter length, or confusing because of the chapter length, or there's a jarring shift in tone in the middle of the chapter, or there's two unrelated sets of things happening in the chapter, then it should probably be multiple chapters.


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## TWErvin2 (Nov 6, 2011)

There is no hard and fast 'rule' for chapter length. In general, YA chapters tend to be shorter than 'adult' fiction, and nonfiction is a different 'animal' than fiction.

Some of it is writer style, and some of it may reflect on publisher preference. I've never heard or read about an agent or publisher turn down a work, basically saying, "This is a great work, and publishable, except the chapters are just too long (or short).  That is something that can be adjusted while working with the publishing house's assigned editor.

One can find exceptions where chapters are 1 word long, to other works where it's basically one long chapter for the entire novel.

As was indicated, find a good spot to stop. Scene breaks, while not as 'good' with of a stopping point for readers as a chapter, have their place.

The trick is to have a chapter end in such a way that the reader wants to go on a little longer and read the next chapter.

Most of the chapters in my novels run from 2000 to 5000 words, with the majority being in the neighborhood of 3000 words.


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## Legendary Sidekick (Nov 6, 2011)

Thanks, Devor. And I'll tell you that there are people who have read the whole thing have advised me to move on to the next book rather than go back over the first.

My feelings on this are kind of mixed. I'm happy with the overall style of the storytelling... but feel like I could benefit from rewriting the story as two books. I wouldn't need to change much to pull this off.

I'm talking about a 155,000-word story, by the way. So part of my reason for revising is that I'd rather have two 75-80K stories, and keep future works in the 75-90K range. I'd hate to debut with 155K, then suddenly start making shorter books. Another reason is the newbie mistakes I made, like all-caps + double-exclamation points = loud. I wish I was joking about that.

Also, I completely agree with you about working with test-readers. (I always do.)

If you're interested in reading more, you can read the 10,000-word chapter I was talking about. The preview* ends at page 34. The "* * *" on page 21 is where I felt a chapter break is in order. (PS- Sorry to not just "showcase" this... my old computer died, so I don't have a Word doc that I can just copy-paste. I emailed older files to myself, so I can do some copy-pasting for the rewrite/revision, but the final edit is gone!)


_*NOTE: Click "preview," and click "+" twice, or until the pages are zoomed in enough to read but not so much that you have to scroll up and down._


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## The Blue Lotus (Nov 6, 2011)

Or, you could do away with chapters totaly and avoid the whole debate


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## Devor (Nov 6, 2011)

Legendary Sidekick, I'll take a look and give you my thoughts over PM when I get the chance.


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## Legendary Sidekick (Nov 6, 2011)

Thanks... I certainly appreciate your time and advice!


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## myrddin173 (Nov 6, 2011)

There are multiple positions on the topic.  Some authors/publishers like short chapters because if the next chapter is only a few pages long the reader is more likely to keep reading. Others like to go as long as possible between chapter breaks because it will give the reader fewer chances to put the book down.  In my opinion  a chapter should reach some sort of resolution, whether that takes half a page or fifty, it doesn't matter (to me).


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## Laughing_Seraphim (Nov 7, 2011)

This is all about rhythm. If the writing is paced right, and eventful I can't imagine having to put much thought into where a chapter would stop.

Twin chiefs again. 
They take their tribe south in search of water buffalo. They encounter a hostile tribe and make a run for a series of caves.
They arrive at the caves. 

Arriving at the caves is a major event, a solid place to delineate the sequence of events for readers. It seems like a life or death chase is also a good catalytic event.


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## Sparkie (Nov 20, 2011)

The Blue Lotus said:


> Or, you could do away with chapters totaly and avoid the whole debate



Right now I'm reading Gregory Frost's "Shadowbridge."  The layout of this book avoids chapter-length divisions and instead divides the story into lengthly 'parts.'  While convenient stopping points occur, they are rare.  And yet that has done nothing to detract from the enjoyment of reading the book, at least in my case.


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## Legendary Sidekick (Nov 20, 2011)

Sparkie said:


> Right now I'm reading Gregory Frost's "Shadowbridge."  The layout of this book avoids chapter-length divisions and instead divides the story into lengthly 'parts.'  While convenient stopping points occur, they are rare.  And yet that has done nothing to detract from the enjoyment of reading the book, at least in my case.


Good to know. As Dever is going through my first couple chapters, I'm reconsidering my position on my 10,000-word chapter. My chapters are named, and this one is called "First Day on the Job." Each half of the chapter focuses on a different protagonist, but the chapter happens in one day, and both characters are just starting "a job."

...or I just just drop chapter names and split all of my long chapters. Maybe if I didn't name them in the first place, they would never have been so long!


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## Devor (Nov 20, 2011)

Legendary Sidekick said:


> Good to know. As Dever is going through my first couple chapters, I'm reconsidering my position on my 10,000-word chapter.



I'm sorry for the delay, it's not a testament to your writing (although possibly to reading a novel on the Preview page of a website).  My son, Gabriel, is just six weeks old and has trouble giving me more than five minutes at a time to do anything.  Add to it that I'm finally starting to catch up on six weeks of sleep deprivation, I feel amazed I can function at all.


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## Legendary Sidekick (Nov 20, 2011)

Yes, newborn = goodbye, free time + more than enough joy to make up for the lack of free time

I have a PDF version. PM me if you're interested.


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## Laughing_Seraphim (Nov 21, 2011)

myrddin173 said:


> There are multiple positions on the topic.  Some authors/publishers like short chapters because if the next chapter is only a few pages long the reader is more likely to keep reading. Others like to go as long as possible between chapter breaks because it will give the reader fewer chances to put the book down.  In my opinion  a chapter should reach some sort of resolution, whether that takes half a page or fifty, it doesn't matter (to me).



I am going to have to agree here. The chapter should lead somewhere. A 10,000 word chapter would seem to me like the author had no clear, impactful events occuring. You can also name parts, with several chapters each.

An example here would be PART 1: First Day on the Job. Chapter one: 'Til Breakfast.

It so happens that a number of long standing traditions are in place for typically solid reasons. I think this is amongst them. Reading should be a joy, not a practice of onerous things , at least as far as I am concerned.


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