# Ask Me About Martial Arts



## Aurelian (May 3, 2013)

I'm a Martial Artist more accurately a Karateka. I've been practicing for a good amount of time now in Karate but I have some minor training in Aikedo and Jujistsu and some Tai CHi. 

I'm fairly well read on most Martial including modern day and Old traditional styles. I also like to read some of the old Legends of Karate.So ask me a question if I know it I'll answer you. If I don't know I'll do some research and give you my best answer.


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## ndmellen (May 3, 2013)

how many fights have you had?


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## Aurelian (May 3, 2013)

Three Tournaments.


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## HabeasCorpus (May 3, 2013)

Kendo practitioner here ... if anyone's interested in incorporating some Japanese style (modern) fencing - here's a great documentary for your consideration.

Kendo - Exame de 8Âº Dan - YouTube


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## wordwalker (May 4, 2013)

Here's a question:

Are kicks actually used in real combat martial arts? That is, I've heard that it's just too risky to kick at any target above the knee, at least against a trained opponent, because getting your leg grabbed is just too dangerous.

If so, that makes it the first Hollywood martial arts image real writers need to get out of their heads.


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## Kit (May 4, 2013)

The best time to use a use a kick is when your Bad Guy is on the ground.

Just kidding. 

Sort of.

Taking out your opponent's knee gives you a great advantage- harder for him to fight you, harder for him to chase you. Once he's down, you can run (which should always be your first plan anyway)

Throws and other takedowns (another item that looks cool on the movie screen but is a lot harder to pull off in real life) can become a better possibility if you first attack the leg to compromise the Bad Guy's balance... one of my former teachers referred to this as "tenderizing" the foe preparatory for the throw. Strike/kick combos and kick/kick combos can be effective as well. One particular former classmate of mine used to get me every damn time with a simultaneous right-punch-left-kick (or vice versa). You see that punch coming in and get very distracted, are already moving to deal with it before you notice the kick sneaking in underneath (if you *ever* notice it, before it hits you).

As far as higher kicks.... meh.... my opinion is that it depends a lot on who your opponent(s) is/are and how good you are at the kicks. Relative size and reach of combatants matters too.

 It's difficult for an untrained person to grab your leg. Hell, it's difficult for a TRAINED person to grab your leg. These are some of the techniques that intimidated me the most. Your timing has to be sublime. When you miss, it hurts quite a bit. 

Thrust-type kicks above the waist are the most vulnerable to being grabbed.

If someone with grappling experience tries to  kick you and you grab the leg, they will just pull guard on you, and next thing you know, you're embracing on the ground (exactly where you don't want to be, with a grappler)

If *you* are untrained, you are unlikely to have the skill to hit the correct target, project the correct force, get your entire body into it, hit with the correct part of the foot at the correct angle, keep your balance, and withdraw the leg swiftly. There's actually a lot that goes into a really good kick. It takes considerable practice to get really proficient.

High crescent kicks....they're pretty, I'm good at them, but even so I have rarely used them in sparring. Their main utility is to stretch out your hamstrings before class.  

I have used side/roundhouse kicks to the rib/belly area, but only on people whose reactions are on the slower side... of course, we have trained those leg catches and counters, so I know the particular people I'm sparring have technique to use if I am not quick enough. Untrained person- maybe, if I had a really good opening.

I use a lot of side and thrust kicks to knees and shins. Up close, knee strikes to groin and large muscles of thighs. Stomps to the foot, and scraping the bottom edge of your shoe really hard down the shin, can be really effective when paired with something else.

Being very flexible, I can do a killer hook kick- I was once clinched up with one of my teachers , and I turned my body just a titch and hook-kicked my heel up right into his stomach. (One of my finest moments ever- what I wouldn't give for video.)

Others' mileage may vary.  I'm really short, so a martial artist of more reasonable height might have a very different battle strategy. I like to target those knees cuz I'm already right down there anyway.


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## Aurelian (May 5, 2013)

Thanks Kit for filling in for me I was busy.

Kit explained it very well. A general rule of thumb is below the hips. Anything higher than that and you run an increasingly likely chance of losing your balance. An exception to this is that you need to practice higher than your hips ideally in order to build up your balance and hip flexer strength.

Kit was correct in saying snap kicks in general straight at them run a higher risk of getting caught so they're usually avoided for pro fighting.

High kicks are beautiful. take for instance the 540 round kick, spinning in the air kicking three times with one leg. I have a friend who can do it but he'd be the first to tell you it has no applicable combat value.

For my part I don't kick often. I'm a tall guy and my legs make up most my body height (trust me this is important). That being said it's hard for me to move those things fast and my balance is something that I really have to work hard on in order to maintain.

To end, yes kicks do have applicable combat value. It's the same rule, the higher the kick the more chance for it to go wrong and unless your as good as the Immortal Chuck Norris  it probably won't work.


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## Aurelian (May 5, 2013)

I'm gonna share with you guys a story I heard the other.

Chintō Kata is an advanced Karate Kata dating back to the time of Matsumura Sōkon. Matsumura Sōkon is an old Grand Master of Karate, all branches of karate bear at least some influence from him.

The Legend goes that a Chinese sailor named Chintō(sometimes called Annan) crashed his ship off the Coast of Okinawa (The birthplace of Karate). He survived by stealing from the crops of farmers. Eventually the Okinawan King sent his chief bodyguard Matsumura Sōkon to deal this man.

In the ensuing battle Matsumura found that Annan was an equal match for him and so he decided to learn his techniques. No indication is given as to how long it to Matsumura to learn everything he knew but the results were Chintō Kata.

In some styles it's quite commonly believed that you should only practice Chintō Kata facing East(Chintō means-Fighter from the East in Chinese).

Under the microscope Chintō Kata bears influence from Chinese Martial Arts(Commonly called Kung-Fu...).


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## Kit (May 5, 2013)

Aurelian said:


> Kit was correct in saying snap kicks in general straight at them run a higher risk of getting caught so they're usually avoided for pro fighting.



Each art is different; in the strain of Kung Fu I trained in, there are snap kicks (from the knee and using the top of the foot/shoe as the striking surface) and thrust kicks (the "fireman's kick", from the hip, using the heel/bottom of the foot as the striking surface).  

Low vertical snap kicks (like to the groin) are hard to catch... you can rechamber them pretty quickly, especially with practice, and the action is mostly isolated to that below-the-knee area.  The main drawback for these- for me- is that I dislike using the top of my foot as a striking surface unless I really have to. If I was wearing my combat boots, it might be okay.  

Doing an above-the-waist horizontal snap kick or roundhouse (like to the rib area) takes a (relatively) long time to chamber, and the Bad Guy sees exactly what you're getting ready to do and where you are aiming, and has plenty of time to get ready for you. Also takes longer to rechamber and put your foot back on the ground. Much more dangerous for the kicker. And, again,you're using the top of your foot, which sucks in my opinion.

Thrust kicks above the waist are more dangerous still, for the kicker. Like a roundhouse, they take a long time to chamber, a long time to withdraw, and a long time to regain your footing and balance. At least you can use your heel for this one, and not the top of your foot.

An interesting exercise is to work thrust kicks against different targets. I don't mind admitting, the first time I did a full-on waist-high fireman's kick against a heavy bag, I fell right on my ass. Depending on exactly how and where your kick strikes the opponent's body, and how s/he is balanced, regaining your own balance and footing afterward is a real crapshoot. I wouldn't use this kick in a real fight unless the guy was both blind and reeling-drunk. Maybe not even then. 

Now, thrust kicks to the knee or shin are The Bomb. :biggrin: I like to crowd right up against the guy so he can't really see what's going on down there, and try to get him on the side or back of the shin right below the knee. Going on a diagonal downward trajectory. If you get him on the back of the shin right below the knee, he just folds up like a card table and drops. It's beautiful. I've practiced those puppies till I can do them lightning quick and putting my entire body's force behind them.


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## wordwalker (May 5, 2013)

_Very_ nice, thanks, Kit and Aurelian. You really put me in the picture of how it works. (Too tall to kick well? Just the kind of detail I'm sure I can find a use for...)


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## Kit (May 5, 2013)

I used to have a classmate who was very tall with long, long legs. His kicks were power and poetry to watch, and I'll bet they would have shot me all the way to the North Pole if they'd landed. I had to get inside his range right away- up very close, where he couldn't use the kicks. So if you have range- or want to keep your foe back- long legs would be great. Once up close, not so much.


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## ndmellen (May 6, 2013)

I'm going to piss some people off with this. I told myself I wouldn't butt in, but I ...just...can't...resist.

It seems like there are two people commenting here: Aurelia (Ask Me About Martial Arts), and Kit.

My personal creds when it comes to fighting: started in karate when I was five. Went to tae kwon do. Kung fu. Wrestling in high school. Americanized kickboxing when I was 16, and started fighting competitively when I was 17. Between muay thai and MMA ( I had to learn jits when I realized my take down defense wasn't as strong as I thought it was), I went17-4-1 as a highly ranked amature fighter in Las Vegas. I've competed in NAGA and Grappler's Quest. I think I still have a fighter profile on Sherdog, and I  write for fiveouncesofpain.com, MMAtraining.com, and TheOverhand-Right.com. I'm currently 31, and although my last sanctioned fight was in 2009 (which I won by head kick knock out at the end of the second, fracturing my tibia in the process), I still train 6 days a week at TapOut under Ramone Montano, sparring partner for Floyd Mayweather jr. (Google it.)

Kit- You've obviously done a bit of training, but while some of your concepts are sound, many are not.
Aurelia- tournaments are not fighting, or even applicable to real world situations. Point scoring systems are irrellevant. The lowest white belt can do a tournament; doesn't mean they know what they are doing.

I'm not saying this to be an ass. I came to this website to help hone my writing. I'm here to learn more about writing and what my target audience wants. Since this particular thread is on fighting (which I am deeply versed in), I felt the need to pipe up.

To answer the original quesiton about kicks: Yes, they are incredibly effective, providing you know what you are doing (as I'd imagine your character does). Despite what people say, you can very easily go above the waist. The "loss of balance" that people speak of comes from a lack of flexibility and experience. I shit you not, drilling my shin into someone else's ribs is one of the best feelings in the world.

Here's what you need to know about kicking: strike with the thick part of the shin, not the bridge of the foot. Kick "through" things, not "at" things. Getting hit with a hardened shin is like being struck by a baseball bat. People have three major nerves in their legs; two on the outside of the quad, and one on the inside. Hit them, and people don't want to play anymore. It only takes twelve pounds of pressure to break a floater rib, but because it flexes back and forth, it's harder than you would think. Ever been kicked in the mouth? It sucks. Ax kicks, crescent kicks, snap kicks...they all look really cool on tv, but they don't really work ( and yes, I've sparred with a 7th degree tkd black belt. He kicked me out of the gym after I knocked him on his ass for the fourth time. It was very embarrassing.)

Chambering kicks, as Kit mentioned, is something to consider, but it doesn't really take that long. Chambering actually refers to having your body contracted for motion. If you're conditioned, if you've drilled it enough,you do it without thinking (no more than a breath of thought, if you think about it.) A switch kick is probably the slowest kick you have but also the strongest (and it's perfect for south paws.) Everything else is barely slower than a punch.

"Thrust" kicks...oooh, getting your leg grabbed. The preferred nomenclature is teep. It's like a jab with your foot, and it keeps the other guy at distance, allowing you to set yourself and keep your spacing.A teep is a battering ram driving into your solar plexus. For the most part it doesn't hurt, but it can knock the wind out of you if you aren't chambered. Can my foot be grabbed? sure; but here are the options.

My favorite: opponent hooks my heel, I lean forward and put my knuckles on his chin as hard as I can. 
Next: pull your foot back.
Next: pull your foot back and roll.
Next: if all else fails, pull guard and look for a sweep.

Working against ground guys (wrestlers, in particular) is something else. Feel free to kick them in the head...just make sure that you set the shot up (throw a jab out, get them looking at your hands, etc).

I've gone on longer than I intended, so I'll cut this short. Fighting isn't pretty, and six rounds is much harder than people realize. It isn't what you see in action movies, or what you've read in the majority of sci fi novels.

 It's dirty, and gross, and much closer than you would expect. Flashy stuff rarely works. Brute, bone breaking force, driven by a limb that knows what it is doing, does.

My deepest respect to both Kit and Aurelie. But if you want to know about fighting or the martial arts, talk to me...I write a fight scene like no one's business.
...and now I sound like a pompous ass.


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## T.Allen.Smith (May 6, 2013)

I don't think you sound pompous. I don't have the level of experience you do but I have trained at Couture's gym for a limited time after about 12 years of various other martial arts. Although I've never fought at the amateur level, or greater, I have been in several real fights. Those were many years ago (I've matured) and several of them were arranged matches on ship while I was in the Marines (life on ship for Marines is boring. We come up with lots of ways to pass time - No weight classes teaches you a lot).

Regardless, in my experience, real fights are fast & brutal. Training can certainly help & even more so if that training is based in reality much like the MMA training of today. At the very base of it all, brute power, speed, toughness, & pure meanness account for the rest. I've met plenty of guys who were just plain mean & tough as nails. No manner or amount of training would have helped me for long against them in a street fight (one was a Marine scout sniper and he knocked me out cold before I knew what happened - and we were friends).

Still, there are two sides to the martial arts and, in that vein, many different perspectives can be of value when it comes to fiction writing. Historical knowledge of the arts, a knowledge of general kinesiology, real fight experience, what being punched in the face repeatedly really feels like... All of these perspectives and more can be harnessed to write your combat scenes.


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## Aurelian (May 6, 2013)

ndmellen said:


> Aurelia- tournaments are not fighting, or even applicable to real world situations. Point scoring systems are irrellevant. The lowest white belt can do a tournament; doesn't mean they know what they are doing.



I doesn't bother me. Yes I did realise I was answering the question "wrong" but I made the mistake of assuming you didn't know anything and put out a short answer to please a vaguely interested person. 

Please don't take me for naive I don't go around spouting off how many (actually) fights I've gotten into because quite honestly it's no one's business except my own. 

To end I'll say that I like to confer with other writers and talk about Martial Arts with other people but it may be a little rude and arrogant to espouse yourself over your peers.


ndmellen said:


> But if you want to know about fighting or the martial arts, talk to me...I write a fight scene like no one's business.


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## Kit (May 6, 2013)

For our studio audience: Martial artists often cannot get along very well online together unless/until they can reach some mutual agreement regarding Whose Is Bigger.  :bomb:


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## Sia (May 20, 2013)

Um, so I keep wandering around asking people how handedness affects things. I'm going to do the same here: How would the majority of my world being left-handed affect the way martial arts are practiced?


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## Kit (May 20, 2013)

For unarmed styles, it wouldn't... the minority right-handers would enjoy the same advantage that left-handers enjoy here- ie, many people aren't used to the attacks coming in from that side.

Once you get to a certain level, it's expected that a competent martial artist practice everything (attacks and defenses) on both sides- partly because of the possibility of facing a left-hander, partly because you never know when your dominant limb might get injured and leave you *having* to fight with the other, and partly to exploit that offside advantage. 

I'm right-handed, but when I work things on my "stupid side", I sometimes find that certain techniques actually work BETTER for me on the "stupid" side. When I'm sparring someone who knows my style pretty well, I sometimes make a point of switching things up and doing X on the side that he's not used to having me do it on.

For most weapons, you're back to the same issues as have been mentioned in the sword thread... although shields aren't usually a factor here. I find that weapon work is more difficult than unarmed work to switch to your crappy side. But that's just me; maybe others have a different experience. The possible exception is perhaps knife- sometimes I like to use the knife in my left (stupid) hand so that I can better use my dominant hand to strike or grapple with, and maybe pull the opponent into my weapon. Of course, if I'm facing one of my classmates who *knows* that I'm right-handed, I've given away my strategy at the outset.


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