# What are the Consequences of using Magic in your World?



## Viorp (Sep 29, 2017)

How are the magic users in your world punished for using magic?

In my new project they either die or devolve into monsters. Mages that are powerful enough can continue living, but their magic is weak.
You can also use certain types of magic if you have a "patron" which basically are gods of various faiths.


----------



## glutton (Sep 29, 2017)

They aren't punished for using magic except some people might be intimidated and find them unapproachable, but OTOH magic is also not a "game breaker" in most of my worlds and top tier melee fighters are usually on par with or better than top tier mages.


----------



## Michael K. Eidson (Sep 29, 2017)

Magic is commonplace in my WIP, as natural to the world as gravity. There's no punishment for being a magic user.


----------



## Orc Knight (Sep 29, 2017)

Magic is part of the fabric of Eld. It's embedded in the very nature of the world. There is no real punishment for using it, and though it comes less naturally to humans then it does the other races, they still have it. There is punishment, however, for certain types of magic users. Mostly for being on the wrong side of a war or being the likes of a curse casting witch that meets a sad end at the point of a sword or a more powerful magic users.

There is an exception however. Undead are basically parasitic magic users and take it from the world and it doesn't cycle back in because they need to use it to simply get by. The punishment is, obviously, being killed again. Liches are worse syphons of the magic. In a way, they've wrecked the magic cycle of the world. It's recovering though.


----------



## skip.knox (Sep 29, 2017)

In Altearth there is no direct cost, but magic is chancy. It's not like saying a spell and getting a predictable result, or even casting a fireball and knowing that's going to drain your power for six turns. 

That's because no one knows what makes magic work. Or, rather, there are dozens of theories, each of them right and each of them wrong in various ways. For some, you get results by praying to god or gods. For some, it's using magical artifacts. For others, it's more like herblore while for still others it's numerology and astrology. The trouble with the theories is that they are right just often enough that there is always someone who believes in them.

It's a thousand years and more before the people of Altearth begin to understand the science of magic.


----------



## elemtilas (Sep 29, 2017)

In *The World*, the consequences for using magic can be dire indeed. 

It is true that magical forces are commonplace. Part of the fabric of nature. That doesn't make magic simple to use or easy to control. Even those folks for whom magic "comes naturally", it can still go awry. And there is great temptation as well for those whose abilities are naturally great.

As with any natural force, a slight miscalculation or lack of respect for the power you're trying to control can spell disaster. Even when well controlled, the positive effects of a work of magic will usually bring about less than desirable side effects as well.

Case in point. There was once a powerful wizard who became in time rather proud of his subtleties and abilities in the Craft. In time, he thought himself quite invincible. One time he was challenged to a duel with another powerful wizard. His rage at being unable to defeat the seemingly simple tricks of his opponent caused him to lose balance. He lost sight of the basic laws of physics and, when at the pinnacle of rage he sought to throw down his opponent's Tower, in stead he ended up thrusting his own body nearly half a mile into the earth! He forgot that thaumic levers are no good without first bracing oneself for the task!

The stench of burnt flesh emanating from the rough bore of the hot stony tunnel lingered for a while, but no one ever dared trying to find out if anything was left of the poor sod. Can still see the bore hole as well as the ruins of the two towers along the southern coasts of Pelagia, a ways north of Auntimoany, though it's now filled with water.


----------



## Devor (Sep 29, 2017)

I have different systems, but I don't think any of them have a real "cost."  I have one that comes close, a straight up Viking ragnarok setting, where different kinds of Disir can be summoned by blood.  Valkyrie appear to celebrate bloodshed, while a more spellcasting type can appear at a sacrifice, and another appears when somebody dies from your cowardice.  But it's more of a theme than a cost, and there are other types of magic in the setting.


----------



## Tom (Sep 29, 2017)

The magic system in my high fantasy project has pretty severe consequences for using it. The cost is both physical and mental. Mages can only handle so much magic, as their bodies are literally physical conduits for it. Most have to stop using magic when they start to feel drained, while others push themselves until complete exhaustion sets in. 

Physical exhaustion involves tiredness and aching joints, and maybe a nosebleed. If the mage keeps using magic it progresses to vertigo, nausea, and more extreme and potentially permanent symptoms such as anemia and bone/muscle degradation. Mental exhaustion consists of clouded thoughts, disorientation, sensory overstimulation, and heightened emotions (often rage or irritability). It can progress to insanity, seizures, and even unconsciousness. 

Magic also has devastating effects when left uncontrolled. It can leave physical scars that manifest as vitiligo-like patches of depigmented skin, and causes nerve damage, leading to numbness or chronic pain. Its psychological effects manifest as PTSD-like symptoms, with hallucinations and night terrors being the most common. Over time, and depending on how often it's used, it can also change people, shaping their bodies and minds into something no longer completely human.


----------



## Annoyingkid (Sep 30, 2017)

Loss of energy, ranging from barely noticeable to on the ground gasping. To kill yourself performing magic, the desperate magic user would have to choose to give their all for this spell even their life. That's if it's done right. If it's done wrong and mistakes are made, say ...in an incantation or ritual, then the spell will fail and a fantasy demon might appear.


----------



## Horus (Sep 30, 2017)

In Ynol, magic flows into the plane naturally from too many places to count. Native people absorb mana naturally as they live, and everyone has life energy (qi/prana/Aru). There is no real punishment for using magic casually, but intense study of certain forces does have a "look into the Abyss long enough, and it will look back" effect. 

Particularly necromancy, Demonology, and faith magic will begin to effect the person. Making deals with denizens of the Abyss will see you start to become more like them; cold, emotionless, and ultimately detached from what most mortals consider to be defining aspects of who they are. Necromancy eventually starts to kill the very body of the person that will practice it. Faith magic slowly turns the person into a tool of their patron, be it for good or ill. The ultimate price is becoming a Seraph, who is essentially a geassed puppet of their deity. Even Saints (people born chosen by their deity) are eventually fated for this.

Sorcery and Alchemy are more like science, so there is no real consequence. Everything is a formula to be quantified. The only major difference between the two is that Sorcery "cheats" because it subverts the laws of physics completely by using magical energy in greater supplies. Alchemy is more efficient, using less magical energy, instead opting to use magic to create naturally occurring phenomena. If you study sorcery the biggest danger comes from venturing into forbidden territory. Generally, don't mess with Time, don't mess with dimensional boundaries, and don't explore the nature of fate/existence too deeply. Break any of those, and you might go mad, age yourself to dust, shatter your own essence into trillions of pieces, or attract the attention of creatures you don't want to associate with. Those three mysteries are strictly for the Eternals (gods, spirits, demons).


----------



## Demesnedenoir (Sep 30, 2017)

Punishment, no, but “channeling” too much power through your body can do a variety of things to the caster, including burning out their ability to use magic at all, uncontrollable twitching, blind/deafen, insanity, death, or in the case of Unlife, becoming a form of undead. Much depends on what one is doing at the time. Too much fire and you could be like a drummer for Spinal Tap.


----------



## Vaporo (Sep 30, 2017)

Severe memory loss. The world was forged from the memories of two gods, so a person can alter the world by appending to it with their own memories. Every memory, even forgotten ones, plays a role in determining personality. Careless use of your own memories can slowly turn a person into a depressed, confused, emotionless husk.


----------



## Chekaman (Oct 22, 2017)

It depends what you use it for. Many spells are legal, at least unless misused. Punishments for magical misuse range (from lowest to highest)
-A simple warning not to do that again.
-A fine
-A big fine
-A flogging
-Imprisonment for a certain amount of time
-Being renamed, relocated and having your gender changed
-Stripping of magical power permanently
-Blinding
-The Death Penalty


----------



## Chessie2 (Oct 23, 2017)

There are no real consequences. Magic is an accepted part of life. What matters is how you use it. If you hurt others and break laws there are punishments.


----------



## Vvashjr (Nov 17, 2017)

In my world of Eessirie, magic is divided into Mage(which subdivides into elements, Earth, Fire, Air, Water, Light, Dark and Blood), and Divine(channelled from the gods), and generally the non magic populace favours Divine over Mage, which results in the outlaw or frowned upon mages by the priests. And if you count psychics as magic, on my world, both priests and mages distrust psychics.


----------



## SithLord (May 22, 2018)

In my WIP, magick is latent in certain, talented individuals.  These individuals, over time, have developed their own council and embody an "ecclesiastical" ruling body where instead of ruling like kings, they are more or less a moral guide to lead the normal humans.  Think of them as the Catholic Church had existed, condoning wars or ending wars and overseeing treaties, etc.  As such, their own rules and guidelines dictate their magick is only for those who are able to use the gift, or channel their "aztmudin" which is the energy force that they can harness on a metaphysical level.  As a Magi uses their gifts, he or she must recharge by connecting to their temple either in the physical building or by exposing themselves to the root of their power such as fire, water, light, etc.  Should a Magi abuse their gift or violate the codes and laws of their order, they can be subjected to excommunication which is near fatal as without connecting to their temple every so often, their gift can be lost.  For the utmost extreme consequences, deemed by vote with majority sway of the Supreme Elder, the Magi can be sent to The Spire - a remote distant island where their tongues are removed (rendering their capability to use magick moot), and then placed in a cage which is then hoisted on a pulley system to lift nearly 100 ft in the air where they are left to suffer and perish.  To assure the Magi do not go "rogue" at any time, the Magi have trained an order of Knights to protect their Temples.  These Knights are a physical and magick barrier between the Magi and secular man whereas should the Magi go rogue or betray Man, it is up to the Knights to dispel the one or few who are acting of their own ego.  As well, should the secular humans and kingdoms decide to attack the Magi, it is the Knight's duty to protect their rightful temples as assigned.  These are my protagonist magick users and those my main heroes have learned about during their youth as fables and legends and like RL atheists, there are a few characters who disbelieve.


----------



## Miles Lacey (May 23, 2018)

In my fantasy world magic is gifted to a lucky few (around 1 in 200 people) on their 16th birthday.  Because it manifests itself in the form of a spark or lightening bolt it is called the Spark.  While a person who receives the Spark will have the raw skill it takes training at a mages college to learn how to use it effectively and to control it.  Upon entering a mages college the person with the Spark is called a mage.  

Mage ranks are: *Beginner* (they have no training), *Novice* (they're learning basic spells), *Advanced Novice* (they're competent in the basic spells and learning advanced spells), *Apprentice *(they've mastered basic spells, competent in advanced spells and learning specialist spells), *Advanced Apprentice *(they've mastered advanced spells and competent in specialist spells), *Adept *(they have mastered at least one specialist field of spells such as combat, healing or spiritual), *Expert *(they have mastered more than one specialist field of spells) and *Master* (they have mastered all the specialist fields).  Only those ranked Adept or higher can practice magic without the supervision of an instructor or mentor.  An *Unranked *mage is deemed to be too stupid, dangerous or gifted to be trained by a mages college instructor and will be given a tutor instead.

*Arch Mage,* *Grand Master *and* Supreme Exquisite *are strictly administrative titles.

A *Conjurer *is a person who can perform certain types of magic (what we on Earth would call magic tricks) or spells who do not have the gift of the Spark or a renegade mage.    

Some of the consequences:
1.  The mage loses any hereditary titles.
2.  The mage's eyes turn yellow.  
3.  The mage gains a unique four symbol mage mark that only they and other mages can see.  Once every so often the mage will have their mage mark physically branded on them by the gods (and are seen as "touched by the gods").  If they tattoo or provide any physical representation of their mage mark - except when signing documents or presenting proof of their mage status - they're jailed in many countries.
4.  They become sterile.
5.  Because of reason 4 they are banned from marrying or any other form of marriage like relationship.
6.  They must attend mages college.
7.  If they do not maintain a certain standard of fitness and health they lose the ability to use the Spark effectively.  That's because the Spark relies upon the body's energy levels to generate the spell in much the same way as a professional athlete uses their body's energy levels to run a marathon or 100 metre sprint.


----------



## Yora (May 25, 2018)

I have magic mostly in the form of premonition and telepathy. People who make use of it tend to become weird, in every sense of the word. Using magic changes the perception and persective and leads to acting according to a logic based on things that most people aren't aware of. And delving too deep into the true depths of the universe can also actually make people become unhinged.
And additional thing that magic can do is summoning spirits to get advice from them directly or request services. To the spirits this is a trade so it will cost something, though this depends entirely on what the summoner is willing to offer. The biggest drawback is that is that it makes spirits take notice of you. Usually they simply don't care about mortals and ignore them, but summoners can gain their attention. Even when they are not hostile, this is almost never a benefit to anyone.

A special case is sorcery, a rare form of magic that pulls out the big guns and can actually rewrite reality. Doing it is very hard, and the results are always messy. Sorcery can create many wondrous marbles, but it always cracks and warps reality where it is applied. Everything exposed to sorcery becomes sickly and fragile, and over time mutated and decays. And anything or anyone affected by this corruption spreads it around to anything nearby. Sorcery can be a marvelous tool to deal with certain problems, but it is so environmentally unfriendly and unhealthy that it's not a viable method of progress. Sorcerers can become very powerful, but they also become feared and dispised.


----------



## Saigonnus (May 28, 2018)

Given the nature of magic in my world, the user gives life force to “power” the engraving, it is completely commonplace for an engraver to burn out or even die. Burning out is sometimes a temporary condition or sometimes it is a permanent inability to engrave. (Sure, a burned out engraver can still mark the medium, but can no longer activate the runes)


----------



## Sheilawisz (Jun 6, 2018)

This is an interesting thread, even though we have seen similar discussions and comparisons before.

Something that defines Magic in all of my Fantasy worlds is that it's a truly supernatural power. I mean that Magic is the stuff that just kicks reality out of the way and does what it does, no matter what. Instead of being explained as something that works according to established rules of nature, my Magic is something like the ultimate cheater.

Imagine that you play Chess against somebody that plays twelve turns for every one of yours, moves all pieces like Queens, places any captured piece back on the board and then proceeds to beat up anyone that even tries to protest. You cannot do anything about it... Well, that would be natural laws and physics compared to the kind of Magic that I describe in my stories.

Also, my magical characters are Magic themselves instead of just people that happen to use Magic.

This means that there is no punishment for them as a consequence of being what they are. Just like you open your eyes in the morning and inhale air and nothing weird happens to you because of that, my Mages are free to be themselves.

Sure they can get tired as a consequence of heavy combat or large scale magical feats, that happens sometimes.

The other consequence of being a Mage in my Fantasy stories is that other Mages are going to be your rivals for who knows what reasons, and that's what creates conflict and dangers for them. Also, sometimes the stuff that they do can have accidental consequences for the world in general... things like setting the world on fire, or even reducing the universe to nothing.

Magical catastrophes of that scale are very rare, though.


----------



## psychotick (Jun 7, 2018)

Hi,

I've got too many different magic systems to really answer the question. But I would add one thing to the discussion - be consistent. 

The reason I say this is that I've just been watching the Shanarra Chronicles season two, and this is one of the things that has bothered me. (It's been a very long time since I read the books so maybe they do have an answer in them that I can't remember.) But remember the dire warnings in the show - Magic always has a price? It just keeps striking me that not only are the prices always different, but not everyone pays them. In the show - the bad guys never seem to worry about the price. It's only the heroes that have to pay it. That bugs me.

Cheers, Greg.


----------



## TheCrystallineEntity (Jun 8, 2018)

Magic is not something that most people have in my new series, even though it's part of the lifeforce of the land itself. There's wizards, who tend to study it, and the odd assortment of supernatural beings, but the characters who have the most intense magic usually warp reality by using it, albeit often unintentionally.


----------



## S J Lee (Jul 11, 2020)

Me, in my present WIP I am going with magic can only come from unseen beings men call gods. Gods can't  / don't like striking mortals directly. They chose a mortal as their servant, someone who had better be devoted to that god's desires "a man/woman after the god's own heart", and THEN can start working supernatural effects.... OR the god can just make a warrior stronger / tireless/ invulnerable under certain conditions.... There is no HP Lovecraft style "price"... IF you are in tune with what the god wants. If you just use your powers to get rich etc / glorify yourself / pursue private vendettas... then you will be stripped of them. HOWEVER, experienced magicians can pull stunts that novice chosen servants can't. Also depends if the god is working though many servants or focusing everything on just one.
I wonder if this makes them more like DnD clerics than wizards...
The "price" is that you must OBEY and give up your own desires. If you are in tune with your god's desire, there isn't really any price at all....


----------



## Vicki27 (Jul 11, 2020)

Magic is part of the natural world in Twin Kingdoms, however, it is very addictive and insidious.  To channel the magic, the wielder has to open themselves up, and use their body as a conduit.  If too much is drawn in at any one time, the spontaneously combust.  If the wielder becomes addicted to the magic, the magic becomes the master and the wielder loses their humanity.


----------



## psychotick (Jul 11, 2020)

Hi,

Well oddly enough, this thread returns just as I'm neck deep in the middle of a new book in which magic does have a price - pain and possibly death. In my work those who have magic - at least among the humans - go to a Temple called the Heartfire - sit on one of the thrones and then have to endure agony as the magic from the Heartfire (A volcano) fills them. The pain is so bad that they scream down the entire temple and occasionally one of the worshippers (it is a temple after all) dies in screaming agony as he receives his blessing. And they have to endure this every six months! Naturally humans with the gift are very tough people!

Cheers, Greg.


----------



## Insolent Lad (Jul 11, 2020)

The only real consequence of magic in my main fantasy world is getting tired and hungry. It's hard work! (both mentally and physically) However, in a side project I've been developing, Newtonian laws apply to magic, as it is a natural force of the universe. I.e. for every action there is a reaction, so it's a good idea to know what reaction might knock you down after casting a spell!


----------



## Azaraiha (Jul 11, 2020)

In my world magic exists in two forms: Runecraft and Casting. Anybody who puts enough time and practice can learn RuneCrafting. Casters, or Arcanists are rare but are more common among elves. Because the Aether (magical energy) is literally the life essence of a dead God, Arcanists channel the emotions the dead God felt at the moment of death. This may sometimes overwhelm the caster and those that lose control are destroyed from the inside out almost instantly.


----------



## Sunny dewbae (Jul 20, 2020)

One of the consequences that I have been thinking about is in regards to mages that use summons. In Naruto the ninjas have to draw blood in order to summon creatures. So I thought it would be interesting to push it further. When a mage summons a creatures they must give up not only blood but flesh. this general means a body part of some kind. For a small mouse size familiar it would be like a toe or part of a finger. For something larger and more powerful they have to give up a limb. In a desperate situation a mage can sacrifice their entire body and bring a powerful creature into are plane. This would end the mage's life.


----------



## Queshire (Jul 21, 2020)

One thing that I highly recommend is to take a look at the "soft" prices for magic.

To use Harry Potter as an example;

Magic does not seem to cost:
>mana or an equivalent.

>stamina beyond that required for the wand movements.

>sacrifices.

Magic does cost:

>the time investment to learn the individual spell.

>the time investment of going to school to learn to be a wizard in general.

>Any time or effort required to ensure that you're in a state where you can cast the spell when you need it.
-Do you have your wand?
-Are your limbs free enough to go through the specific motions required for the spell?
-Are you mentally composed enough to properly pronounce the incantation?
(Notice how all of those can be targeted in a fight.)

>Various societal costs that come with being a wizard.
-Dealing with all that blood purity stuff and death eaters.
-Dealing with house rivalries. 
-Dealing with heavy pressure against interacting with muggles/their culture/their tech.
-Dealing with limited options should you want to leave all that behind and live as a muggle. (After all, good luck getting a good job without a degree and graduating from some place called Hogwarts.)

Notably magic that avoid those prices such as Wandless magic is portrayed as difficult enough that you need to spend more time and effort becoming a good enough wizard to start learning it. Similarly, while potions is something learned by first years it has its own price in the physical ingredients, precision needed to brew and time it takes to brew.

~~~

Now, on the topic of hard costs.

The manga Chainsawman involves devils. Three different groups can use the "magic" of the setting. Humans, fiends who are humans that have had their heart replaced with a devil's and can use the devil's power as a result, and humans who have made contracts with devils.

Focusing on the last one, it should be unsurprising that some of those contracts involve payment to use the devils power. This ranges from losing an arm to get a ghost hand, sacrificing your life and the lives of innocent children to drag a building to hell and all the way up to sacrificing a year off the life of every citizen of the USA to try to take down your enemy.

This is grim, yeah, and it fits the tone.

~~~~

In retrospect none of that is about magic in my actual setting, but I need more time to get that down in order. Posting just this for now.


----------



## Akira444 (Sep 11, 2020)

In my world, magic draws upon mana, life energy present within nature and living beings. Overexerting one's magical capabilities can cause severe exhaustion, fatigue and, in extreme cases, even death. Second, magic requires preparation; spellcasting is a precise art that must be done right or one of two things will happen: the spell with not work at all or the spell will backfire on the caster. The more powerful the spell the more energy and requirements it needs.


----------



## psychotick (Sep 11, 2020)

Hi,

Well Chy's coming along well now and I just finished another few chapters. And I added to the cost of magic. But I also added to the value of paying that cost. Other spell-casters who learn their magic through other means, eg academies etc, don't pay the same price in terms of agony as they go to the Temple and receive their gift. But they also don't learn the same lesson of will and endurance. Those who use the Temple of the Heartfire have wills of iron and the determination to do practically anything. Which leads to the obvious question - what's the price of not paying the price to learn magic? 

Just a thought! 

Cheers, Greg.


----------



## Patrick-Leigh (Sep 11, 2020)

In my story setting, it is a matter of what you do with the magic that has legal ramifications while mishandling magic can have personal consequences, such as when a spell goes haywire. Magic is something anyone can potentially learn to do at a very basic level, with Cantrips being usable by almost the entire population (though most people don’t have the TIME necessarily to learn them, since technology is only at about a late 18th / early 19th century level.). Many Mages have jobs that are rather “blue collar” in nature, doing road maintenance and helping with construction or utility jobs.  It’s only when magic is used criminally that there’s an issue.  So, it’s basically like how using technology is viewed in the real world.  It’s not so much that you use it as much as HOW you use it.


----------



## skip.knox (Sep 11, 2020)

This thread is making me take a harder look at the costs of magic. I see three kinds of costs identified here.

1. Cost of learning. This could be anything from literal cost of buying a spellbook to time spent at Worthogs school to selling one's soul.
2. Cost of operation. I think this is where the OP was. The cost of casting a particular spell. Fatigue, injury (physical or spiritual), etc.
3. Social cost. Per Patrick-Leigh, casting a fireball on the battlefield in service of the king is one thing. Quite another when cast during a bank robbery. IOW, there might be criminal cost but also just social approbation--a particular magic might be legal but still be unrespectable.

All three open up interesting possibilities. 'Sfunny. When I wrote that, I realized that for authors "possibilities" usually means constraints. Ours is a curious trade.


----------



## Patrick-Leigh (Sep 11, 2020)

The point about how some magic may be legal but not respectable got me thinking about some less criminal ways someone could use magic in a way that could get him in trouble.  If you're using magic to do things that are disruptive, inconsiderate, rude, or just downright _obnoxious_, then people are going to hold that against you.  If you've ever been on a bus or in a restaurant and had to put up with someone blaring music on their phone, you know what I'm getting at, here.  Let's consider a few good idea / bad idea scenarios.

*Good Idea:*  Using an illusion spell to make children laugh.
*Bad Idea: * Using an illusion spell to frighten children so they cry.

*Good Idea:*  Using telekinesis to push in someone's chair while they're sitting down.
*Bad Idea:* Using telekinesis to pull out someone's chair while they're sitting down.






*Good Idea:*  Using transmutation to reheat someone's food if it has gotten cold.
*Bad Idea:*  Using transmutation magic to make someone's food do this...






I think you get the point.  You don't have to use magic in an _evil _way in order to make people upset with you.  All that's necessary is that you employ magic in a way that is _disruptive and inconsiderate._  A mage who acts like a jerk with his magic is going to get on people's nerves and cause them to lose their patience.  The more disruptive the use of magic, the faster that is going to happen.

One thing I think writers should take into consideration with magic in their story settings is if there are laws against using it in an obnoxious matter specifically or if it simply falls under "disrupting the peace."  If there are specific laws against such things, consider what the penalties will be.  Perhaps one offense only gets a fine, but repeated offenses might cost you your license to use magic within city limits.  I think having some idea of what will and won't get your magic users into legal trouble vs what will and won't get them in social trouble is both necessary and a lot of fun to sort out as a writer.


----------



## skip.knox (Sep 11, 2020)

I was also thinking of disreputable trades. We don't have much of this in modern society, but pre-modern did. In German they were called the _unehrliche Leute_. For example, the town executioner. Rag pickers. Prostitutes. In some places, it was just about anyone who was outside the guild structure, so peddlars, fishmongers, day laborers, all were _unehrliche Leute_.

So, I was thinking, even if these people could do magic, it would stil be socially tainted. By extension, there might be certain kinds of magic that were _unehrlich_. The obvious candidate would be necromancy. It wouldn't matter who you were, what station of life, if you're raising up dead bodies, you're not accepted in decent society, even if the act itself was not illegal.

This could be extended. If dwarves do one sort of magic and elves another sort, it could be disgusting for an elf to utilize dwarf magic, or even an item enchanted by dwarf magic. But that same magic would be perfectly acceptable among dwarves (obviously). The interesting part would be looking at how humans would regard it.

The more I think about it, the more it seems to me that magic would not be without social consequences, and that those consequences wouldn't necessarily be consistent across cultures or across time and place.


----------



## Patrick-Leigh (Sep 11, 2020)

Very true. A mage who clears out septic tanks, blocked up sewerage pipelines, and repairs them probably won’t be as respected as the ones who conjure up beautiful sculptures or slay dragons... unless your society values sanitation and frowns on using magic for “frivolous” or violent purposes.


----------



## psychotick (Sep 11, 2020)

Hi Skip,

Actually that got me thinking. In New Zealand a lot of those trades got lumped together as offensive trades under the Health Act and there's loads of regulations relating to them. They include everything from fellmongery, tanning and septic waste disposal. Not prostitution though. But it struck me that even if the trades are offensive because of smell or what have you, and the people who carry them out considered lesser in some way - what if you could use magic to do them? I mean think of a night soil man - not that they exist any more. But what if you had a wizard who could load up the cart with waste and truck it through town with no odour, and no one noticing the horse and cart etc. Would he still be a social pariah?

Cheers, Greg.


----------



## Akira444 (Sep 11, 2020)

Patrick-Leigh said:


> In my story setting, it is a matter of what you do with the magic that has legal ramifications while mishandling magic can have personal consequences, such as when a spell goes haywire. Magic is something anyone can potentially learn to do at a very basic level, with Cantrips being usable by almost the entire population (though most people don’t have the TIME necessarily to learn them, since technology is only at about a late 18th / early 19th century level.). Many Mages have jobs that are rather “blue collar” in nature, doing road maintenance and helping with construction or utility jobs.  It’s only when magic is used criminally that there’s an issue.  So, it’s basically like how using technology is viewed in the real world.  It’s not so much that you use it as much as HOW you use it.


I love magic that people can learn instead of the common "magic gene" that authors use. I like toying with the idea that magic can be commonly learned but still takes time and effort to properly harness and is easy to abuse if you're not careful.


----------



## Patrick-Leigh (Sep 11, 2020)

For me, I realized that, with the way I was setting things up, it didn't make sense for people not to be able to learn at least Cantrips with the right amount of training and practice.  In my setting, people's bodies store up a certain amount of magical energy for innate magical defenses that kick in under the right circumstances.  Certain organs (the heart, brain, spine, and reproductive organs, in particular) can all generate low-level barriers around themselves when the person is targeted by magic.  This is why getting hit with a lightning spell doesn't usually cause fibrillation or brain damage unless the spell is above a certain level, though other kinds of damage, particularly burns, can still be suffered.  Additionally, while pregnant, a woman's uterus will generate a low-level ward around itself most of the time.  (This is why many women discover their magical aptitudes during pregnancy.)

I realized that, if everybody had some weak, innate magical defenses (that they can't really control) and these required the body to have a certain amount of magic energy in it to work, then it didn't make sense for basic spells, Cantrips, to be unavailable to anyone who wasn't a Mage.  On further consideration, I realized that Mages probably would only learn Cantrips as _training spells_, then abandon them because, well, let's face it, _nobody's going to hire them to do Cantrips_.  Mages get hired to handle stronger, more complicated spells, and those require a _lot _more time and effort to learn.  Thus, I've concluded that Cantrips are "layman's magic," something mostly utilized by Non-Mages.  A majority of people don't learn that many of them, but most know at least one or two, usually _Ignition_, which generates a small spark that can be used to light a fire or kindling (always good if you don't have the _much _more efficient flint and steel on you) and _Bead of Light_, which creates a tiny, glowing bead at your finger tip that generates as much light as a candle.  There are plenty of other Cantrips people can learn, but the vast majority of people simply do not have the time or access to the knowledge or training to do so.

But if they do have some extra time to learn more Cantrips and have access to the knowledge or training, a layman or housewife can actually become pretty adept at the most fundamental forms of magic.  Mages often look down on Cantrips, forgetting that some of their spells are only different from them in terms of _potency_, not complexity.  A spell that makes an orange levitate is, in terms of parameters, no different from the one that makes a boulder levitate.  The difference is simply the magnitude of the spell.  It's only _complex _spells that laymen and housewives are unable to learn (without becoming Mages themselves.)


----------



## Aldarion (Sep 12, 2020)

Depends on the type of magic. Some doesn't have consequences, some results in losing soul to the devil.


----------



## joshua mcdermott (Sep 12, 2020)

I have one world where the consequences of using magic is environmental--- sort of like Climate change.    The more its used the faster the end of the world comes... but try to stop people from using it!  heh.  

since the cost can be foisted off on a future people... there is a lot of denial


----------



## StrawhatOverlord (Sep 20, 2020)

It mostly just makes one tired if channeled correctly. If you mess up a spell it the energy you were manipulating to do it backfires and can hurt or kill you, which is why most magic users use some sort of focus like a staff, wand, orb, talisman, etc, then it's the object that gets damaged or destroyed. Some kinds of magic require raw materials that are often consumed by the casting. Spirit Pacts and Divine Magic have varying requirements and costs depending on the particular god or Spirit. The "Ways of Old" that the antagonist uses requires many sacrifices and often rather specific rituals, like a divination ritual that uses spines, severed heads and entrails, but it only works if the "ingredients" were harvested the right way or belonged to the right kind of person, etc. The consequences of which are obviously mostly social, and moral presumably if someone more scrupulous were to attempt its use.


----------



## Eclipse Sovereign (Sep 29, 2020)

The price of magic is a corrosive illness, much like radiation sickness. It hastens your demise, but is capable of immense feats of creation and destruction. Most users of magic also have sickly red or yellow eyes, and as their power grows their bodies fail them. They typically die before their thirties from organ failure.

On the plus side, magic’s dying out, so future generations don’t need to worry too much.


----------



## ChasingSuns (Oct 7, 2020)

The price of magic in my current work is a certain wearing down on the soul. This can manifest itself in many ways (including physical deformities), but the most common is madness. Most mages don't actually have an understanding of where their magic comes from (though they do have theories), and as such, don't usually have the tools know how to prevent the negative effects. Most will join a magic order, or a religious one that practices magic. The mages that don't usually fall through the cracks, only to get picked up by less than reputable groups.


----------



## Patrick-Leigh (Oct 7, 2020)

ChasingSuns said:


> The price of magic in my current work is a certain wearing down on the soul. This can manifest itself in many ways (including physical deformities), but the most common is madness. Most mages don't actually have an understanding of where their magic comes from (though they do have theories), and as such, don't usually have the tools know how to prevent the negative effects. Most will join a magic order, or a religious one that practices magic. The mages that don't usually fall through the cracks, only to get picked up by less than reputable groups.



I like this idea of mages joining religious orders.  Most stories I've seen have magic and religion being opposed to each other, but, just as religion and science don't need to be opposed to each other (indeed, religion can be motivating factor behind science, as a way of gaining a greater understanding of how the divine constructed reality,) so, too, can religion and magic go together in a story.  In my own setting, certain religious orders will focus on training their followers in certain forms of magic, such as Paladins being trained in various defensive types of magic so they can do a better job protecting people from the agents of darkness.  It's more about how magic is used than the magic itself that can put it in opposition to certain religions.


----------



## ChasingSuns (Oct 7, 2020)

Patrick-Leigh said:


> I like this idea of mages joining religious orders.  Most stories I've seen have magic and religion being opposed to each other, but, just as religion and science don't need to be opposed to each other (indeed, religion can be motivating factor behind science, as a way of gaining a greater understanding of how the divine constructed reality,) so, too, can religion and magic go together in a story.  In my own setting, certain religious orders will focus on training their followers in certain forms of magic, such as Paladins being trained in various defensive types of magic so they can do a better job protecting people from the agents of darkness.  It's more about how magic is used than the magic itself that can put it in opposition to certain religions.


I definitely share the sentiment of coexistence between magic and religion. After all, if a priest were to conduct a magical feat, would it not be considered the will of god, or a miracle? Granted, in my story the major religious groups don't even know about the truth of the universe or the source of magic (the true source of magic is from some Lovecraftian beings that aren't widely known or acknowledged in the world). I wanted to explore, however, how religion could help hold back some of the negative effects of magic use. It takes a lot of mental practice and discipline, which a monastic lifestyle could certainly provide. On the note of paladins, I have one religious order that has magic-wielding war priests who operate as sellswords, which has been a lot of fun to explore.


----------



## Patrick-Leigh (Oct 7, 2020)

One idea I'm toying around with is combining something akin to Benedictine monks and nuns with Eastern martial arts.  The whole idea of using chi has been modified into a variation of Psionics, which uses Psi Energy rather than chi.  I have at least one religious order where both monks and nuns are trained in a style of martial arts that focuses on disabling and subduing opponents without causing them serious injury or killing them.  Where the magic comes in is their use of Psionics to temporarily block the connections between the brain and the limbs, paralyzing them.  It's like the whole pressure point thing you see in some martial arts movies.  Anyway, the reason I decided to pursue this idea is because I thought it would be fun to not only blend eastern and western elements but also subvert the expectations of Benedictine-style monks and nuns by having them actually be martial arts masters.  Their religion is focused on mercy, forgiveness, and redemption, so they want to avoid killing or maiming opponents as much as possible, but they also want to protect the innocent from those who would do them harm.  Their Psionic-enhanced form of martial arts is how they find a balance between those two objectives.  They protect the innocent but also show mercy to those who would hurt them through use of martial discipline and Psionic Magic.


----------



## ChasingSuns (Oct 7, 2020)

Patrick-Leigh said:


> One idea I'm toying around with is combining something akin to Benedictine monks and nuns with Eastern martial arts.  The whole idea of using chi has been modified into a variation of Psionics, which uses Psi Energy rather than chi.  I have at least one religious order where both monks and nuns are trained in a style of martial arts that focuses on disabling and subduing opponents without causing them serious injury or killing them.  Where the magic comes in is their use of Psionics to temporarily block the connections between the brain and the limbs, paralyzing them.  It's like the whole pressure point thing you see in some martial arts movies.  Anyway, the reason I decided to pursue this idea is because I thought it would be fun to not only blend eastern and western elements but also subvert the expectations of Benedictine-style monks and nuns by having them actually be martial arts masters.  Their religion is focused on mercy, forgiveness, and redemption, so they want to avoid killing or maiming opponents as much as possible, but they also want to protect the innocent from those who would do them harm.  Their Psionic-enhanced form of martial arts is how they find a balance between those two objectives.  They protect the innocent but also show mercy to those who would hurt them through use of martial discipline and Psionic Magic.


I like this idea. I would also be interested in seeing what a heretical order of psionic monks would look like in opposition to the regular psionic monks. Considering there's always breakaway groups in religions, I could definitely see this being a possibility.


----------



## JunkMonger122 (Oct 18, 2020)

In the Whiterose Mythos Magic requires fuel. This fuel is called Imaginary Energy and the different types of Imaginary Energy determines what type of spells your able to cast. There's really no downside to using Imaginary Energy, it's produced naturally in a person's Soul. The only real cost is that bigger, more powerful spells require more Imaginary Energy and better control over Imaginary Energy to cast. It's very similar to Chakra from Naruto. Like in Naruto there are powerful "endgame" spells that can significantly alter the homeostasis of individual planets or sometimes even entire galaxies. These forbidden magics are called Black Calamities and their use is absolutely forbidden. In some worlds even so much as learning or teaching a Black Calamity is worth the death penalty.


----------



## Rosemary Tea (Jun 2, 2021)

skip.knox said:


> This thread is making me take a harder look at the costs of magic. I see three kinds of costs identified here.
> 
> 1. Cost of learning. This could be anything from literal cost of buying a spellbook to time spent at Worthogs school to selling one's soul.
> 2. Cost of operation. I think this is where the OP was. The cost of casting a particular spell. Fatigue, injury (physical or spiritual), etc.
> ...


Yes, I think what this thread is really about is the costs of doing magic, not punishment, which is how the OP worded the question in their first post.

In mine, all of those kinds of costs exist, but they're usually not extreme. The greatest costs, and the only ones that are completely inevitable, come at the learning stage. A full mage doesn't get fatigued or injured by doing magic unless they attempt a particularly dangerous kind and/or fail to take appropriate safety precautions. A new apprentice will experience some fatigue, and greater susceptibility to illness, when their magical abilities are starting to appear. For the first year or two, they'll have days when they're too tired to get out of bed, usually right after a new surge in their magic, and they'll get a cold more often than usual. In the long run, it doesn't harm them, it's just some discomfort that must be endured in the adjustment process. Once they've adapted to having magic run through them all the time, it doesn't debilitate them. If anything, having made that adaptation improves their health. Full mages rarely get sick, and, barring a magical accident, they tend to live into their eighties or nineties and remain healthy til the end.

Apprentices also, at first, can quickly lose control over their own magic if they raise more of it than they're ready for, and due to their inexperience, they're at great risk of getting in over their heads. That can create anything from a Sorcerer's Apprentice sort of situation--out of control but no irreparable harm done--to serious injury, usually to the apprentice.

For that reason, every apprentice's teacher supervises them very closely, forbids them to use any magic without direct supervision and explicit permission (this restriction gets eased somewhat in the later years, when the apprentice has gained some experience and better judgment and can better control their own magic) and disciplines them if they try it anyway. Apprentices have to accept that level of supervision and discipline as a condition of being trained, and they have to work harder, overall, than an apprentice in an ordinary trade would, because they have so much more to learn. In this world, young people typically get apprenticed, so there's nothing unusual about that, but a mage's apprentice has a more challenging time of it. More rewarding, ultimately, but the reward must be earned.

Social cost is an interesting one to consider. Certainly, magic can be misused, and if it is, that's when the problems occur. Not only can misused magic cause harm, the mages' guild has strict rules governing that and will punish any mage who breaks them. Magic used appropriately is no problem at all, and generally, mages have a lot of respect from the people around them, although there are also some circles where a negative view of them prevails. This is mostly so in the scholars' community (mages and scholars have some deep seated rivalries) and in villages without a resident mage. People who know mages and don't have rivalries with them are more likely to see them in a positive light, especially if the mage they know is a nice person.

And then there is the simple fact that using magic is only possible for those who've undergone the training to do so, and they can only get that training by committing their whole lives to the magery. It's not something that can be dabbled in. If you do it, it's your profession, and your life.


----------



## JC Hendricks (Jun 5, 2021)

TLDR: They draw on the nanobots that infect every living thing, and if overused will consume the hosts life force, at which point they return from the dead as a 'zombie'.

     The world that I mostly use is set in the far, far future after a massive apocalypse. The World That Was exists mostly in myth, but possessed tech well beyond that of our real world. They had managed to settle other planets, and even made rudimentary exploration of the multiverse. Eventually, a bioengineered virus arose that threatened the entire civilization; to combat it, they utilized nano-robots that were powered by the beings they inhabited and gene editing to attempt to cure the virus.

     This failed, catastrophically. The nanobots attached to the plague they were meant to destroy, and used it to spread through out the civilization. They cured the virus, but became something worse. The majority of the population was simply drained, the nanobots running rampant in their system and over populating it until they died; these rearose as 'zombies', as the nanobots took over the body and attempted to spread to other living hosts. Mutation ran rampant as the nanobots infected different species and beings, and changed in different ways. 'Vampires' arose that allowed their host to consume the energy of other beings to power their nanos, rather than their own; 'Daemons' are airborne nanos that can infect and control hosts; 'werewolves' are a fusion of nanobot and canine that could change its shape.

      Civilization collapsed, but eventually the survivors became symbiotes to a more passive form of nanobot, and some learned to control them. These individuals became known as mages, sorcerors, and other names. Some of the mutations survived and started breeding true. Orcs and goblins are more feral demi-humans; the goblin ability to tinker and build is directly related to their latent nanos. Elves are just humans that were created to fill a rather unpleasant role in the pleasure farms; dwarves were made to withstand terraforming projects on hyper gravitic planets. The true nature of 'magic' isn't known in the current timeline outside of the rare academic who may know some small parcel of the truth.


----------

