# Magic, Science, and Religion



## Steerpike (Nov 11, 2013)

I found, online, a scan of Malinowksi's well-known essay on the topic. It think this sort of thing can be quite useful to fantasy writers and world-builders, in that it gives an anthropological view of these subjects. I recommend skipping the introduction and going straight to the essay under the heading Magic, Science, and Religion.

Magic, Science and Religion and other essays by Bronislaw Malinowski


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## Feo Takahari (Nov 11, 2013)

I gotta say, this looks _really_ outdated. How much has the relevant discourse changed since this was written?


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## Scribble (Nov 11, 2013)

I scanned through don't see anything that seems <wrong>. Even the psychological elements avoid Freudian interpretations, despite the time in which it was written. It seems fair observation/functional analysis. I'm no scholar on the subject.

A documentary I found fascinating on religion, Around the World in 80 Faiths. An Anglican Priest goes around the world and learns about the faiths of different societies in our world.

Youtube Playlist: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HghQff8GJZU&list=PLA64C0E8B64FBCA47


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## Steerpike (Nov 11, 2013)

Feo Takahari said:


> I gotta say, this looks _really_ outdated. How much has the relevant discourse changed since this was written?



You have to look at it and consider it on its merits. How old is relativity? Malinowski is currently read in university courses on the subject. Plus, its not hard science that is apt to change with new discovery. It's social science theory.


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## GeekDavid (Nov 11, 2013)

Steerpike said:


> You have to look at it and consider it on its merits. How old is relativity? Malinowski is currently read in university courses on the subject. Plus, its not hard science that is apt to change with new discovery. It's social science theory.



Relativity is nothing. How old is gravity? No one believes that stuff anymore... said the pig that just flew by my window. 

(Sorry, letting my inner snark out there a bit.)


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## buyjupiter (Nov 11, 2013)

Feo Takahari said:


> I gotta say, this looks _really_ outdated. How much has the relevant discourse changed since this was written?



Not much. I took a class on the subject a decade ago, and this article/approach to magic was all that we discussed when our professor wasn't talking about her peyote experiences. Worst college class ever.


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## Jabrosky (Nov 11, 2013)

Feo Takahari said:


> I gotta say, this looks _really_ outdated. How much has the relevant discourse changed since this was written?


Could you please point out a few examples of how this looks outdated to you?


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## Feo Takahari (Nov 11, 2013)

Jabrosky said:


> Could you please point out a few examples of how this looks outdated to you?



What initially struck me was that he approaches cultural evolution as an ordered progress, beginning with a "primitive" state and and potentially "advancing" to other states. My impression was that modern anthropology approached various cultures as different, but didn't really consider any as "advanced" compared to others. (Then again, it looks like he's _attacking_ the old notion that polytheistic societies are all anti-technology--that's certainly a point in his favor.)


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## Steerpike (Nov 11, 2013)

Some of the terminology reflects the times, but not really the substance of the ideas.


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## adampjr (Nov 11, 2013)

Feo Takahari said:


> What initially struck me was that he approaches cultural evolution as an ordered progress, beginning with a "primitive" state and and potentially "advancing" to other states. My impression was that modern anthropology approached various cultures as different, but didn't really consider any as "advanced" compared to others. (Then again, it looks like he's _attacking_ the old notion that polytheistic societies are all anti-technology--that's certainly a point in his favor.)



Well, it's not a hard science, so whether or not its language is in line wtih what's fashionable doesn't make it any less useful.


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## Mythopoet (Nov 13, 2013)

On a similar subject, Sci Fi author Mike Flynn has been posting a series of essays on his blog about the Scientific Revolution and whether religion was an impediment to it or a necessary condition for it in the West. Very interesting. Here's the introduction with links to the follow up essays linked at the bottom as they are posted:

The TOF Spot: Summa origines scientiarum: ProÃ…“mium


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## Steerpike (Nov 13, 2013)

Nice link @Mythopoet.

I posted to original essay because I think it could be of use in world-building, though we kind of got derailed onto the fact that of the terminology used is from the 1950s (which is when the piece was written).

The ideas that Malinowski discusses could be useful in world-building and developing and contrasting cultures across your world. They even apply in worlds where magic is real.


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## Scribble (Nov 13, 2013)

Feo Takahari said:


> What initially struck me was that he approaches cultural evolution as an ordered progress, beginning with a "primitive" state and and potentially "advancing" to other states. My impression was that modern anthropology approached various cultures as different, but didn't really consider any as "advanced" compared to others. (Then again, it looks like he's _attacking_ the old notion that polytheistic societies are all anti-technology--that's certainly a point in his favor.)



That's a good observation. That idea of "progress" is something that infects more subjects than only anthropology. Older biology texts are full of this kind of thinking, particularly in evolutionary biology, often fueled by these images of primitive man progressing to modern man, beginning to walk upright and getting blond hair and sometimes a nice 3 piece suit in exchange for his animal skins. 

Because technology is so important to our lives, and the speed of change so rapid, we are constantly hammered with media telling us that every new product innovation is going to "revolutionize" how we live.

All perspectives have an expiry date.


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