# Writing, Anxiety and Perfectionism



## DragonOfTheAerie (Jul 3, 2016)

I'm very new here and I've been posting lots of threads recently, but this one is a little different. i'd like to share some stuff that's been going on in my own personal writing journey, and I want to know if anyone feels the same as me. (Please tell me someone feels the same as me.) 

Something you should know about me to give context: I'm very prone to anxiety. Sometimes it's just the tendency to obsess and worry, sometimes it's panic attacks and nausea so bad i can't eat. I'm a lot better at managing it than i used to be, which is a real blessing, but the tendency is always there. When i start to feel the symptoms i've learned to be attentive to--nausea, tight breathing, sweaty hands, fatigue--I can't do anything productive, least of all create. 

I'm also very prone to perfectionism. I'm judgmental of everything i read, but i'm exponentially more judgmental of everything i write. I've been told my entire life what an *awesome* writer I am. My ego has been relentlessly inflated. You'd think this would be good for my self-esteem, but it's not. Whenever I write something, i judge it next to every other thing i've written. I think about what all the people who have praised me would think. I ask myself if this new thing i have written is as *awesome* as people think my writing is. 

I've been working on my work in progress since i was 12. Drafting, redrafting, world-building. Character interviews, dragon species profiles, maps. It's evolved and expanded over the years, and i'm deeply committed to it because the core of the story speaks to my inmost being, and i know it can become something breathtaking. It's my Magnum Opus, and i love it VERY much. Maybe a little too much. My dreams are impossibly huge and my expectations are impossibly high. I have so many great ideas that i think are far better than anything i've ever read, but still i find a way to judge them. Still i keep on looking for ideas that are EVEN MORE great than the ones i already have. In fact, i've spent so long dreaming about my ideas that i'm actually quite afraid to set them on paper. I'm afraid they won't live up to my own standards. I feel like THIS book, the Magnum Opus, has to be BETTER than everything i've ever written. Or at least as good. Better than everything i've ever read. I'm frightened of making the mistakes i notice and judge in others' books. 

You see, when i started writing a novel at 12, i had no idea how to write a story, no idea if anything i wrote was any good. My first attempt was somewhere in between a mess and a disaster. i couldn't care less. But things changed later. I realized that i could make a career out of writing and that i could make these ideas and characters i had into a masterpiece. I was growing my skills, too, and i realized that i could write and write seriously well.  

Now, i've been blocked on my current work-in-progress--yes, that same book i began as a preteen--for about 1.5 years. 1.5 years means hundreds of pages of notes and outlines. 1.5 years means dozens of hours spent brainstorming, meditating, despairing and outright sobbing.  I didn't even know it was possible to have writer's block for that long. And people typically don't. They think of the idea that's been eluding them and they move on. I've had writer's block. This is *not* writer's block.

Several fears are eating me inside, shutting down the passion i used to have for this book. 1) the fear that my book is not, and never will be, good enough. 2) The fear that the passion to write will never come back. 3) The fear that this book will never be written. That it's not "the one". This is most paralyzing of all. This book has been with me through so many changes in my life. I've devoted so much time to it. The idea that i may not be able to write it, that it's destined to never be read, is terrifying to me. 

I keep hearing the advice, "Just write. Don't worry about that others think. It's okay to make mistakes." And i try. I fight the voices, hard. I set goals, i make deadlines, i try all kinds of methods to dominate the fear. But whenever i sit down--butt in chair, as we've all heard--i feel crushing dread. I feel that all too familiar fatigue, that nausea, that tight feeling. Lots of things can trigger my anxiety but this time it's writing. 

Now, anxiety MURDERS creativity. Squeezes the life right out of it. Perfectionism is the same way. Together they are killing my book. I know i can write a book because i've done it. Not just once but several times. 

I joined this forum partly to get help with my ideas. But my ideas are just fine. I don't need new ones or better ones. I need to write the ones I have, because they are GOOD ideas. But--this is sucking the passion out of me. I don't feel excited when i think about my ideas. This scares me. What if it doesn't come back? Not being able to write this book kills me inside because i love it, and i'm committed. 

Sorry this was so long--so, In conclusion. Has anyone ever felt this way? More importantly, has anyone ever been able to beat it? Is it important to feel passionate about my ideas? What should i do to help myself and the story i'm writing?


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## Demesnedenoir (Jul 3, 2016)

Booze... lots of booze. Just kidding, heh heh.

I can relate to parts... writing since 12, and hearing about how good your writing is, while I sat there thinking it was crap. I stopped writing for many years... physically writing, not thinking about it, and went ahead and lived life, figuring writing wasn't the NFL, I didn't have to be young to write, LOL.

Anxiety like what you speak of I can't exactly relate to. Paralysis in writing I have known in the past. My route to writing again took strange paths. 

One big thing I did was to take UCLA screenwriting courses, where there is a lot of attention to technical detail and structure, plus writing. Now this created some weird habits when compared to writing a novel, but it built some skills. Then, I got the attention of some producers, but no sales, and then this brilliant advice: Novelize this, get it published, and it's got a real good chance of movie rights being bought. Higgly piggly!

Years after that, I finally got back to my roots (wife and two children and small business later) in fantasy fiction, but I took an approach more like I took with screenwriting, with attention to technical detail. I learned that when I thresh out the chaff from my writing I no longer gag on it. Boom! 125k word novel complete... cut down to 125k to make it more attractive to publishers in size.

So for me, the catalyst to writing hard core was to write a few chapters, let them sit for months, pick them up, and rewrite them, study the craft, wait months, and pick them again, repeat until those few chapters didn't make me want to gag, let them sit another 6 months, pick them and find they're still good... I got them to the point I don't "hiccup" while reading, meaning I don't see my pet peeve word and style flaws. 

Unfortunately, you will may have to find your own path, I guess we all must to some degree.


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## Penpilot (Jul 3, 2016)

Everyone has what's called their "Golden Idea". It's usually one of their first ideas they've had for a story. They nurture the idea. they fall in love with it. They build it up in their head and know that if they can get it down, it will be the best thing ever. But they build it up so much that when written down, the idea of it holds so much baggage outside of the actual writing, it will never be able to hold up the weight of it. It will never equal what they imagine.

It's like a childhood memory of some book, TV show, or movie. Once it gets pulled out into the harsh light of reality, it almost always fails to meet expectations.

My golden idea stewed in my head for around 15 years. I rewrote the first few chapters dozens of times. And I could never nail down a plot, because I wanted it to be original.

I could never make any progress until I gave up on the expectation that it was going to be perfect--or any good. I just did what people say. I just wrote. Four drafts and 275 000 words later, it was done, and it was terrible. And I really didn't know how to fix it. 

So what did I do? After a lot of soul searching, I moved on. I let the story go, and I wrote another book. While I was writing that book, I came up with tons of ideas of how I could fix that 275 000 word monster. I jotted those down, and then, wrote another book which had nothing to with the first. 

One day I might go back to that first book, but right now I think for me to improve as a writer I have to write. I have to take stories from beginning to end. I make lots of mistakes. I learn from them, and then I move on. 

I just started a story. I'm not sure if it's a novel or just a novella, but it may relate to that first novel I wrote. I'm thinking it might take place in the same story universe. This may lead me back to that first story, or maybe not. I'm not worried about that. All I'm concerned with is writing the best story I can now.

Because that's all I can do. 

I don't think there's necessarily a right answer here, but IMHO, sometimes you have to let something go. What ever that means. Maybe it means setting the story aside because you're not ready to write it yet and go write something else.

Maybe it means letting go of all the expectations and pressures of what you think the story should be and just write the gosh darn thing and let be what ever it's going to be.

In my first college writing class, my instructor had us constantly writing. He said the purpose of that was so we empty ourselves. It took me a while before I understood what he was getting at.

You see, as you write, the more you write, you purge yourself of all the pent up ideas, all the preconceptions and expectations that get built up over time about what you want to write and how you want to write it. This allows you to just write and let the words come instead of forcing them to be this or that instead of what they should be.

If you hold onto something too tight you smother it. Like I said there's not right answer, but IMHO it's about letting go, what ever that means to you.


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## TheCatholicCrow (Jul 3, 2016)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> I'm also very prone to perfectionism. I'm judgmental of everything i read, but i'm exponentially more judgmental of everything i write. I've been told my entire life what an *awesome* writer I am. My ego has been relentlessly inflated. You'd think this would be good for my self-esteem, but it's not. Whenever I write something, i judge it next to every other thing i've written. I think about what all the people who have praised me would think. I ask myself if this new thing i have written is as *awesome* as people think my writing is.



Would it help if we took the opposite approach?... Your writing is crap! (Which means it can only get better!) *Disclaimer: I've never read your writing* Look at any author's early work and you'll see that the Magnum Opus is almost never their first book. You do get those rare cases where the so-called Break-out novel is a huge success (for instance, Catcher in the Rye) but that's rarely the case ... and usually (as in the case of JD Salinger) that "first book" came after years of writing fiction in short stories. 



> I've been working on my work in progress since i was 12. Drafting, redrafting, world-building. Character interviews, dragon species profiles, maps. It's evolved and expanded over the years, and i'm deeply committed to it because the core of the story speaks to my inmost being, and i know it can become something breathtaking. It's my Magnum Opus, and i love it VERY much.
> You see, when i started writing a novel at 12, i had no idea how to write a story, no idea if anything i wrote was any good. My first attempt was somewhere in between a mess and a disaster. i couldn't care less. But things changed later. I realized that i could make a career out of writing and that i could make these ideas and characters i had into a masterpiece. I was growing my skills, too, and i realized that i could write and write seriously well.
> 
> Now, i've been blocked on my current work-in-progress--yes, that same book i began as a preteen--for about 1.5 years. 1.5 years means hundreds of pages of notes and outlines.



Wait... that makes you ... oh! Okay ... chances are, you still have lots to learn. (We all do.)  

Stop thinking about it as your Magnum Opus unless you plan on no longer writing when you finish... Every piece is unique and takes on a life of its own. If we're using the baby analogy ... don't make your children feel left out. They're all beautiful in their own way! 



> Several fears are eating me inside, shutting down the passion i used to have for this book. 1) the fear that my book is not, and never will be, good enough. 2) The fear that the passion to write will never come back. 3) The fear that this book will never be written. That it's not "the one". This is most paralyzing of all. This book has been with me through so many changes in my life. I've devoted so much time to it. The idea that i may not be able to write it, that it's destined to never be read, is terrifying to me. ....



Not being something you can do now doesn't mean that it's destined to never be finished. I've heard plenty of writers say stuff along the lines of "I always wanted to write this book ... so glad I waited until later in my career." You're either lacking confidence in yourself or lacking ability/skill to do your story justice. Gotta soul search to figure out which one it is.



> I joined this forum partly to get help with my ideas. But my ideas are just fine. I don't need new ones or better ones. I need to write the ones I have, because they are GOOD ideas... What if it doesn't come back? Not being able to write this book kills me inside because i love it, and i'm committed.


It's important that you're still willing to learn... an idea is one thing, technique is another. Don't make the mistake of assuming that everyone here doesn't have notebooks filled with our own good ideas ... 



> Sorry this was so long--so, In conclusion. Has anyone ever felt this way? More importantly, has anyone ever been able to beat it? Is it important to feel passionate about my ideas? What should i do to help myself and the story i'm writing?



If you haven't already, my recommendation would be to talk to a Health professional about your anxiety (I also have anxiety ... probably not the only ones here) ... you might want to look into coping mechanisms, vitamin deficiencies, and maybe start exercising ... don't know. Ask a doctor. 

Next ... I'd say ditch the book. I have a lovely Epic trilogy that I personally believe is brilliant but it was my first go at writing and it's locked away from human eyes atm ... will probably remain there until I'm ready (if ever) to take it on again. Put 4 years into it. Had a creative writing professor that took 8 years on her book (and she literally taught Creative Writing ...) Every project is unique and we all work at our own paces. That first book will probably take the longest. The more you know, the faster you'll be able to tackle them. I've been working as a ghostwriter for several months and I've been pumping out a novel a month... my clients seem to be happy and impressed with my work... which is really all that matters. I'll soon be making the transition into writing for myself full time (counting down the weeks!) I still get anxious before I turn part of the manuscript in ... _will they like it? Did I capture that character the way they wanted it? Is the prose too sophisticated for YA? Is this too Fantasy for Sci Fi? Will they hire me for the next book in the series?..._ But as time progresses, that nagging voice of doubt gets quiet (still there just quieter) and my confidence in myself drowns it out. Always looking to progress but all I can really do is be the best I can right now.  

It's normal to doubt yourself. Chances are, nobody reading the book (strangers) have read your previous work. Stop lumping them together. Each piece needs to stand on its own. If it's not quality work, don't release it. Rework it until it is high quality. Stay humble and realize there's more to writing than great ideas ... there's always something new to learn. Read lots of different genres and pick up styles, voices, and techniques from each along the way... store them in your writer's toolbox for a rainy day.  

Put some stuff out for online critiques ... here or (once you're old enough) Scribophile is pretty great too ... obviously this site specializes in Fantasy so if you're writing Fantasy you'll have better luck here. (I write a lot of Mystery/Thrillers.) Keep writing until people you _don't_ know say the writing is awesome (because let's be honest ... our mothers and friends are probably not the best judges). 

Trust yourself and have fun. Don't be afraid to take on something new. Not every story needs to be completed right away. I have 4 (of my own) books in different stages (and several more outlines) ... some will make it to hands of a reader, others won't. That's just the reality of art. Some of it you finish. Some of it you come back to, and some of it you just do for yourself.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Jul 3, 2016)

TheCatholicCrow said:


> Would it help if we took the opposite approach?... Your writing is crap! (Which means it can only get better!) *Disclaimer: I've never read your writing* Look at any author's early work and you'll see that the Magnum Opus is almost never their first book. You do get those rare cases where the so-called Break-out novel is a huge success (for instance, Catcher in the Rye) but that's rarely the case ... and usually (as in the case of JD Salinger) that "first book" came after years of writing fiction in short stories.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I just want to clarify, in case you misunderstood, and it sounds like you kinda did. I wrote the first draft when I was 12. About 80,000 words. Then, at 13, I wrote the second draft. About 90,000 words. Third draft got to 34,000 before I encountered severe problems continuing. It wasn't the first time I had written a book, but the earlier ones were novella-length stuff and the plot wasn't complicated. So, it hasn't been 1.5 years since first writing the book or conceiving the idea, that's just how long I've been stuck. 
I guess I still am on the younger side of this community, lol.


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## TheCatholicCrow (Jul 3, 2016)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> I just want to clarify, in case you misunderstood, and it sounds like you kinda did. I wrote the first draft when I was 12. About 80,000 words. Then, at 13, I wrote the second draft. About 90,000 words. Third draft got to 34,000 before I encountered severe problems continuing. It wasn't the first time I had written a book, but the earlier ones were novella-length stuff and the plot wasn't complicated. So, it hasn't been 1.5 years since first writing the book or conceiving the idea, that's just how long I've been stuck.
> I guess I still am on the younger side of this community, lol.



Hmmm ... Don't know. Never taken a poll here. I'm in my mid-twenties (dear Lord! Can that be right? ... 1990's were awhile ago so ... yeah that's right! Eek!) 

Outside of FanFic (it sounds like) you're still on the younger end. That's okay (we all gotta start somewhere!) ... most of my writing friends in the Crime/Thriller genres are as old as my grandparents. I'm known in that community as the "baby author" ...

Being young compared to others doesn't mean we can't hold our own though it does mean most of the MASH references are lost on me


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Jul 3, 2016)

Penpilot said:


> Everyone has what's called their "Golden Idea". It's usually one of their first ideas they've had for a story. They nurture the idea. they fall in love with it. They build it up in their head and know that if they can get it down, it will be the best thing ever. But they build it up so much that when written down, the idea of it holds so much baggage outside of the actual writing, it will never be able to hold up the weight of it. It will never equal what they imagine.
> 
> It's like a childhood memory of some book, TV show, or movie. Once it gets pulled out into the harsh light of reality, it almost always fails to meet expectations.
> 
> ...



I really relate to the golden idea thing. This probably *is* my golden idea, and often I struggle with the idea that I might have to let it go because I'm very attached. It saddens and scares me.

But.

I've got a full cast of characters, an incomplete but still compelling world, and plenty of things that I consider worth fighting for, even besides the central concept that I like so much. So I think the solution is different.

I've built up this idea in my head a lot. Thought about how awesome and perfect it could be. But, that's a standard I can never live up to. When you write a great idea down, it's like you've broken it. It's like you've soiled it by putting it on paper instead of letting it float ephemerally in your mind.  I have long lists of things I want my book to be and include (literally. I can provide pictures.) I think that's what's killing me. 

A couple months ago, I decided to start a writing habit. Every day I would sit down and write whatever random crud came into my mind. I ignored capitalization and grammar and just wrote. Sometimes I didn't have any ideas and I would just ramble. Sometimes it would be terrible. But some of the most breathtaking pieces I have ever produced came out of that period of free-writing. I'd say many of them are some of my favorite things I've ever written. 

Why is my Golden Idea different? Because it's so meaningful to me. I've grown up with it. I can't just dash it off as an afterthought like I did those beautiful paragraphs a few months ago. I feel the need to micro-manage it and make sure every sentence is perfect. I have to make it live up to all the expectations I've built up for it in my mind. 

But this is NOT what I want for that idea! 

I loved this idea when it was first conceived because it was so much fun to write. Not because I thought I could make it into a best-selling novel. It brought joy to me. 

Maybe I'm not ready to write it yet, I don't know. I have tried to set it aside before, but then after a few months my characters start talking to me again and my ideas draw me back in. I don't think being ready to write is so much a matter of ability--I CAN write a book, I have done it several times--but of the fact that this is the story on my heart right now. I can't see setting it down forever. Maybe I will need to break from it to distance myself from all the anxiety and stress I've come to associate with it. 

I believe I need to find a way to let go of the destination and simply enjoy the ride. I need to stop imagining a finished book and go back to the simple joy of putting words on paper.  I need to stop focusing on finishing and focus more on writing. That's the only way the story will become what it is meant to be instead of what I, from this limited, skewed perspective, think it should be. 

But this will be hard to do. 

I suppose my worry is that I've gotten too attached to this story and don't recognize that I need to let go of it. It's kind of a heartbreaking thought.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Jul 4, 2016)

TheCatholicCrow said:


> Hmmm ... Don't know. Never taken a poll here. I'm in my mid-twenties (dear Lord! Can that be right? ... 1990's were awhile ago so ... yeah that's right! Eek!)
> 
> Outside of FanFic (it sounds like) you're still on the younger end. That's okay (we all gotta start somewhere!) ... most of my writing friends in the Crime/Thriller genres are as old as my grandparents. I'm known in that community as the "baby author" ...
> 
> Being young compared to others doesn't mean we can't hold our own though it does mean most of the MASH references are lost on me



I like the anonymity of the Internet. It means I can be judged by my abilities only and not by my age. At my age people are quick to assume I'm inexperienced and have no idea how to write. 

I have dabbled in fan-fic, haha!


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Jul 4, 2016)

Having such an intense emotional connection to a story can make it hard to make rational decisions about it. Things tend to consume my mind, due to the way my brain is wired. 
As of now, I just know that I'm absolutely at the end of my rope with my own perfectionism and would rather write an awful, stinking, hideous, rambling, pointless mess of a story than NO story.


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## Caged Maiden (Jul 4, 2016)

I've been writing since 2001 and for ten years, I wrote just to amuse myself. In 2011, I joined this forum, because I'd decided I wanted to try publishing my work. I had ten first-draft novels, all written on paper. 

Since then, I learned pretty much everything I now know about telling a story, and writing in general. It was a rough road. I've been a pretty prolific writer for the better part of fifteen years, and an every-day writer for at least the last five. 

Last year, I was really depressed after a move to a new area. I turned sort of reclusive, and that led to an extreme anxiety. I've also had chronic neck and back pain for more than five years, and that led to a lot of anxiety, too, because I'm always afraid of hurting myself, and I don't like to take pain meds, but I need them to function most days. 

It's been rough. So I wrote more than ever. And what I noticed, was that for me, writing caused more and more anxiety as I tried super hard to polish my work and get it publishable and professional. 

In fact, I didn't actually overcome the anxiety until recently. I still have it, but it isn't nearly as bad as it once was. 

I'm not confident at all. I have zero self-esteem, and I always feel guilty if someone says they like anything I produce, like nothing I do should be worth a compliment. I'm not a perfectionist, I just want to please everyone, so they are happy with me. I'm sure this thinking was developed in my childhood, where I never felt good enough.

I can't relate really to the concept of a golden idea, because I have so many books I love, I don't consider any one better than any of the others. They're all just things I like for different reasons. Though I'm a sensitive and emotional person, it's actually really odd that I don't have an emotional attachment to any of my stories. I mean, I'm rewriting a novel right now that I wrote in 2008, but it isn't because i love it more than the rest, it's because to me, it made sense to pick one to follow all the way through to the end professional quality I've been trying to achieve, but I'm doing that only because I need to pick one thing to focus on. And this novel made sense because it begins the appearance of werewolves in my fantasy world, and by far, I think those characters have become very solid in my mind. Some other stories still need a lot more figuring out before I could be confident calling them "completed".

Sorry I can't relate more, but I just want to say something.

Thank you for sharing your story with us. We all struggle with something, and I firmly believe that this community is the right place for folks who need support, whether it's emotional support as we take risks, or as we try to reach for our goals.

The one thing that made the biggest difference to me in the last year, was listening to Donald Maass' advice. I have been finding my voice again, after spending years trying to be someone I'm not. And with that, a lot of my anxiety just dissipated. Sure, I still worry my crit partners won't like what I'm writing, but at least I no longer feel confined in a persona that doesn't even fit me. 

I'm not sure what you should do to overcome the things that are happening in your situation, but I took months off writing. I dint think about writing, I didn't write a word. I probably didn't even read anything. Clean break. For months. Just to clear my head and reestablish what I was doing this for. 

Once I felt completely cleansed of everything troubling me, reconnected with my family, and got my real estate license, I approached writing again differently. I came back to it with a serious goal; to be myself, whatever that was. NO more lying to myself and trying to sound like every other writer out there. no more complicating my stories with layers of shit that doesn't support the simpler messages of my stories. 

I found good friends who give it to me straight and keep me honest. I put all my best tools on top of my tool box. I stopped giving in to my bad feelings. And when they surface, I call a friend in my crit group who will always make time for me, even if I don't know what I want to talk about. Being connected to other writers is the only reason I'm still here, still writing, because without their support, I would have given up last winter, when i felt utterly defeated and incapable of improving my work to a professional level.

Hang in there. We all have times we want to quit. If I hadn't hit rock bottom, I wouldn't have known how strong I am. I wouldn't KNOW this is worth it to me. When it doesn't come easy, and you have to fight for it, reaching your goal is a victory. Every positive comment I'm receiving from my crit partners right now feels like a big victory. 

I hope you come out of this thing victorious!


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## Chessie (Jul 4, 2016)

Hi, DragonOfThe Aerie. Welcome to the forums. 

I'm glad that you've decided to share your concerns with us because pretty much every writer struggles with anxiety at some point. Your experience is normal but the good news is that it'll eventually fade. One thing that you might take into consideration is that you're very, very young still. Give yourself time to mature into your craft, to learn more life experiences that you can add to your stories, time to learn about your writing process and how to construct a good story in general.

Your OP states that you're emotionally attached to the story and that perfectionism has brought you to a halt. I've totally been there. I also started writing young (methinks many writers have) and to be honest, writing is one of those skills that takes time to hone. It takes a good deal of discipline and maturity. What you write now will suck and it's going to suck for a while. That's okay. I'm not saying that to be mean, but instead to let you know just how much time you still have to write so many good stories. Writers don't just write one book or one golden idea. They write many stories. You have an entire life ahead of you to sharpen your writing.

Whether or not you put this story aside and work on something else is entirely up to you. Keep at it. Allow yourself to get discouraged because it happens. But once the nagging sensation of wanting to write returns yet again, honor it and go back to your story. Explore being a writer. Write short stories, long stories, read a lot, educate yourself on writing, and enjoy being a kid. As you mature, your craft will, too. You appear to be rather exasperated with your situation about this pesky story. Relax! You have soooo much life and time to write many books. Good luck!


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## Holoman (Jul 4, 2016)

Hi Dragon

I can relate a lot to what you say, I suffer with anxiety as well. First thing I would say is don't pay much attention to the worries about "things will never change...", because after struggling for years with various problems, I can say that things always change (even when we don't want them to). What worries you today probably wont bother you in a few years time. I've had periods in my life where I have obsessed and worried about something, thinking I will never be able to stop, and a couple of years later I won't give it a passing thought.

You're still so young, a lot of things seem scary but as you age you _will_ feel differently. Your perspective of life will change, and many things that once scare you won't seem so scary after all (of course there will be plenty of _new_ things to scare you, like when you realise you aren't immortal!). I know that the anxiety is difficult (impossible?) to reason with. I deal with it by writing in a journal, getting it out of my system, and then doing my best to ignore it throughout the day. Next time you feel anxious, try getting a pen and paper and write how you feel, explore exactly what it is you are anxious about. You say you are scared your book wont live up to expectations, but that's not something to be scared of itself. What do you believe will happen as a result of it? What are you actually afraid of? Sometimes getting to the bottom of it can help you with trying to overcome it.

I am now in chronic pain, which for someone suffering with anxiety is just the worst. When it first started I believed I couldn't cope, my anxiety was off the charts. I had no belief in myself, no resilience. It has been a few years, with some ups and lots of downs, but that voice in my head that says I cannot cope loses power with every month that passes, as my mind gets more evidence that actually, yes I am surviving through this (though sometimes just barely).

Have you ever considered getting professional help for your anxiety? You are so young to be suffering with things like panic attacks and all this anxiety. It is not your fault, for some people anxiety is a disease, like an infection or virus, the brain isn't working properly and when treated it can really improve your quality of life. I learnt about relaxation exercises and they have been a godsend. I take medication as well (not tranqs), which helps a little bit and takes the edge off.

Therapy has also helped me, when you have those worries that feel like they are just eating away inside you, it can help to just get it out once in a while, talk to someone about it that won't judge you or tell you "oh just do xyz, dont worry you're being silly", that will just listen.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Jul 4, 2016)

Thanks for the support, guys. It means a lot. 
On the other hand--DANGIT. Covers blown. Now everyone knows I'm a teenager. Maybe I should post a little something in Showcase to prove I'm not a noob, haha! 
I think I have several options. The first is to take a complete break of at least a few months. I took a six month break after the first draft where I didn't so much as think about the story. Then, I looked back at it and realized on the first page that there was NOTHING I could do with that garbage. The second draft was VERY different from the first and also way better. Anyway, anecdote over--I don't like this idea because I've been anxious to get it written for quite some time. I guess that seems ridiculous when I probably have 70 more years to write it before I'm dead. But I'm just impatient and I imagined getting the fourth (?) draft done a lot sooner. 
Second, I could try working on another of my ideas. I want to write other things, but I honestly don't feel ready to write many of my other ideas. I feel like I don't have the experience. I have plans for a kind of talking-animal type story (like Warriors or its spinoffs except more mature) but that one isn't coming together. I really want to write historical fiction, but I have no idea how to approach the research and I'll have to spend lots of time getting comfortable with the genre. I also have plans for a kind of short story collection but I don't really know where that's going. I have an opening line I really like, but not much besides that. 
Third, I could try sitting down and writing without a plan, just making it up as I go. I'll feel infinitely better if I can just get it down. But, I don't know if this is the best course of action.


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## Penpilot (Jul 4, 2016)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> Second, I could try working on another of my ideas. I want to write other things, but I honestly don't feel ready to write many of my other ideas. I feel like I don't have the experience.



To quote Mythbusters, "Failure is always an option." 

You only gain experience by writing. If you save all your ideas until you feel you're ready, you'll probably never write a lick, at least not with any ideas you care about. 

For myself, I try to constantly challenge myself, write stuff that pushes my skill level. Sometimes I succeed. Sometimes I fail. There's nothing preventing me from rewriting/reusing a failed story idea. And a lot of times I do.

When I write a failed story, it tells me what direction NOT to go with the idea and gives me ideas of where I should go with it. It's never wasted effort. 

And quite honestly, I find ideas are a dime a dozen. When I'm writing, it stimulates my creative side, and ideas not related to what I'm working on currently flood to the surface. I have a wiki document that's full of story ideas, more than I'll ever use in a life time. And I'm constantly coming up with more. 

My basic approach is, take an idea I love, write it to the best of my abilities, and if I'm going to fail, fail spectacularly. 'Cause really, nobody is really going to know but me. At worst a few critique partners will. And as I said, there's nothing preventing you from getting back up an trying again.

To me, there's nothing more freeing than not giving a crap about success or failure. Don't get me wrong. Maximum effort and all that jazz, but if maximum effort leads to maximum failure, so be it. For me, that's been a very helpful attitude to take.


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## Russ (Jul 4, 2016)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> Thanks for the support, guys. It means a lot.
> On the other hand--DANGIT. Covers blown. Now everyone knows I'm a teenager. Maybe I should post a little something in Showcase to prove I'm not a noob, haha!
> I think I have several options. The first is to take a complete break of at least a few months. I took a six month break after the first draft where I didn't so much as think about the story. Then, I looked back at it and realized on the first page that there was NOTHING I could do with that garbage. The second draft was VERY different from the first and also way better. Anyway, anecdote over--I don't like this idea because I've been anxious to get it written for quite some time. I guess that seems ridiculous when I probably have 70 more years to write it before I'm dead. But I'm just impatient and I imagined getting the fourth (?) draft done a lot sooner.
> Second, I could try working on another of my ideas. I want to write other things, but I honestly don't feel ready to write many of my other ideas. I feel like I don't have the experience. I have plans for a kind of talking-animal type story (like Warriors or its spinoffs except more mature) but that one isn't coming together. I really want to write historical fiction, but I have no idea how to approach the research and I'll have to spend lots of time getting comfortable with the genre. I also have plans for a kind of short story collection but I don't really know where that's going. I have an opening line I really like, but not much besides that.
> Third, I could try sitting down and writing without a plan, just making it up as I go. I'll feel infinitely better if I can just get it down. But, I don't know if this is the best course of action.



Penpilot has a lot of good advice in his post.

Part of being a good writer is getting to know yourself both as a writer and a person.  Sometimes that can only be accomplished through failure.

One thing I can say though is it is very rare that doing nothing is the right answer.  You face several choices in this case and if one of them does not stand out based on your experience and self-knowledge you may just have to pick one, go with it and see how it goes.

From the amount that this book seems to be haunting you I might suggest that you right a complete next draft as good as you can make it to "get it out".  But I don't know you well enough to make that recommendation with a high degree of confidence.

On historical fiction there are lots of people around here who can help you.  I ha e done research on historical fiction for some professionals so don't be shy about asking.


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## skip.knox (Jul 4, 2016)

I'm not generally a fan of writing challenges, but I think they might be appropriate here. One of the virtues of a writing challenge, imo, is that you as the author are not invested in the story. The initial idea isn't yours.

This has the merit of getting you writing words, sentences, paragraphs, of shaping an idea into a (usually very short) story, without affecting your Golden Idea story, without being set in your built world, and without any consequences if it sucks. I think of a parallel with music. You get an earworm. You can't get that wretched song out of your head. Best fix? Try humming or singing or playing something entirely different. A pop song in your ear? Feed it death metal, or maybe a polka. 

Anyway, before I wander too far into Metaphoria, writing something entirely different and (this is important) something a safe distance away from your "real" story, can be healthy. If you can't keep moving forward, at least keep moving!


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## Caged Maiden (Jul 4, 2016)

I'm with skip on this one. Before coming her to this forum, I had written ten novels in the same world, and it was very much a comfort thing. When i started doing challenges, I was hooked. I couldn't get enough. All my best work has come when I didn't give a crap. Like literally, wrote a story in a couple days, committed to one idea, followed through, and posted it on midnight of the deadline. Best. Stuff. Ever.

I suppose that might not be the case for everyone, though. But I certainly feel the merit of stepping away from a work that has become too weighty is a great thing. Try something weird. Have fun. Do something you've never done before. A tone you didn't think you'd like, a POV character you've never seen. Anything that'll get you to flex your writer muscles and get your mind off the big problem that's weighing you down.

I get weighed down a lot. That's why I take breaks from writing. I know I'm a better writer if I take days off, so I do that, and I make sure I create a balance between alone time spent writing, and hanging out with friends or family. Some days, I'll be really frustrated I can't find the right dialogue to fit a scene, and my daughter will come in my bedroom and say, "Sorry to bother you, Mom, but I want to paint." And sometimes I just placate her, but I've begun to just close my laptop and get out the paints, and join her. And after, I find that my writing goes so much smoother. Like my brain could stew on the problem without me punishing it and whipping it to go faster. 

So yeah, find some things to enjoy while you let your story issues percolate a little bit. Maybe even for a few days or weeks. I give myself as much time as I need, because I know once I get over the hurdle, I'll be back to 2-4k word days. But while I'm stuck? Oh man, I can stare at a blank screen for hours, just getting more down on myself.

Best wishes!


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## Sheilawisz (Jul 5, 2016)

Hello Dragon!

The first thing that I want to say is that I suffer from Anxiety disorder too, and I know how awful it is. Sometimes people hear the word _anxiety_ and they think that it's like being nervous, but it feels more like being trapped inside of a cage with a tiger that is going to tear you to shreds any moment and you cannot escape.

Panic attacks are even worse, I went through a few of them some years ago.

I do not know exactly how old you are, but the first thing that I want to tell you is that Anxiety is beatable. I deal with it quite well years after my worst moments with the monster, and I still manage to have loads of creativity and imagination. You can do it too! I mean, you can deal with it (or even defeat it completely, like some people have done) and create wonderful stories anyway.

_1) the fear that my book is not, and never will be, good enough._ I think that perfectionism is not your friend, you need to get rid of it. Every story is destined to be what it should be, that's it. Your book will be wonderful for some people, and not so good for others, no matter what you do.

What matters is that you help it to grow and prosper, and allow it to be itself.

_2) The fear that the passion to write will never come back._ After completing my first Fantasy trilogy back in 2006, I was so heartbroken that I feared that the fire inside of me would never come back. That story had been everything for me, it had been my love... It took me months to let it go, and in the end I discovered that other stories were coming to me and I would love them as well. The Sparks always come back, believe me.

_3) The fear that this book will never be written._ I used to feel precisely the same about the stories in my mind, when I was like 14 or so. Those stories have not been written yet, but they still remain with me and sometimes they raise their heads from the shadows and say "Hey, when is it going to be our turn?"

They have never gone away, you see. Maybe it's just not their time yet to be written, and they are in my heart anyway. It's very possible that I will get to work with them one day, when the right moment comes, and the same can happen to you later in your life.

_And i try. I fight the voices, hard. I set goals, i make deadlines, i try all kinds of methods to dominate the fear. But whenever i sit down--butt in chair, as we've all heard--i feel crushing dread._

It's true that sometimes good stuff can result when we force ourselves to write at least one scene, but other times what we need is a break from work for some time. I have spent entire months without working on a story, it happens. Anyway, it sounds like you need a better medical treatment to fight off the Monster of Anxiety.

Just sent you a private message, Dragon... Share with me anything you want =)


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## Velka (Jul 5, 2016)

As you can see from all the responses, most creative types suffer from some form of anxiety, and if not Anxiety with a capital-A (being a clinical term), there's certainly anxiety in the I'm-never-going-to-be-good-enough-why-do-I even-try-it's-all awful-ARGH sense.

Everyone is different, but like a few others have suggested, putting my 'Golden Idea' on a shelf was the hardest, but best decision I could make for myself as a writer. There was just too much emotional investment, and baggage, weighing down that story for it to help me become a better writer. I was just spinning my creative wheels for years, creating nothing but a rut of creative paralysis and self-doubt. 

Embracing other ideas, entering into challenges on this site, venturing outside of the genre of fantasy, and writing even when it felt like bashing my hands with a hammer, made my craft grow in leaps and bounds. 

I liken it to my current adventures in snowboarding. This winter I decided to take up the sport. I hate being cold and I'm terrified of heights, but I figured it would be rewarding once it stopped sucking so much.

So, I took some lessons, fell down the bunny hill every day, and eventually stopped sucking so much. The problem was, I really didn't want to leave the bunny hill. It was familiar, I felt safe there, everyone else on the hill was falling and learning, so there was no embarrassment when I got another face full of snow.

But there also wasn't any growth. 

If I wanted to get better at it, I had to get on the chair lift and use the skills and techniques I learned on the bunny hill on a larger hill. Terrifying? Absolutely. Embarrassing? UGH. Worth it? Yes. Different terrain, different angles of slope, different challenges all made me better (I still suck, but in new and exciting ways!).

A painter doesn't sit and paint the same picture over and over again. A musician doesn't compose the same piece over and over again. Sure, they might revise and review, but a life's work cannot be defined by one piece of creative output.

As for perfectionism, (please don't think I'm pulling a "You're young and once you're older and wiser you'll understand" in any condescending way, that is honestly not my intent), but I was crippled by perfectionism until my early twenties and I wish someone told me that "good enough" is actually good enough, a long time before that.

Life is hard and messy, and as responsibilities and the general realities of being a functioning human being start to pile up, you learn that "good enough" is perfectly acceptable, and generally accepted.

I've found it is impossible for me to be a perfectionist and still have a healthy and productive life. There's just too much going on. I try, don't get me wrong, but knowing when to say "good enough" is what keeps me on this side of sane. I try to do my best at my job, but there's days when "good enough" is all I can offer. I try to keep my house clean, but there's days where I clean up the dog puke but leave the dishes in the sink because I want to read and it's "good enough". I try to be a supportive friend, but there's days when I am emotionally bankrupt and send a text to a friend having a bad day instead of going out for coffee with them, and it's "good enough".

And you know what? Everyone does it. No one is going to show up at your doorstep in a suit, holding a clipboard, to regretfully let you know that you didn't meet expectations and therefore are a crap human being and they're pulling your membership.

The same goes for writing. Good enough is a perfectly acceptable goal. As you get better at it, what qualifies as good enough increases in quality, but the only way to get better at it is to allow yourself to write stuff that isn't good enough and learn from it (something akin to sliding down a mountain on your face and nearly taking out three skiers).

Maybe one day my good enough will be good enough for my Golden Idea.

Good luck finding your "good enough".


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## Steel Dragon (Jul 5, 2016)

Don't worry about being perfect. I used to play hockey, and every coach I ever had would talk about the "perfect shot"...and how pointless it was to try and look/wait for it. As one coach said, "If you can see the goalie, let it rip." In hockey it's rarely that first, perfect shot that goes in anyway. It's the banging around at the front of the net that comes after the goalie makes the save. But you have to take that first shot to initialize the sequence. So take the shot, and then worry about banging the rebound home later.


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## Caged Maiden (Jul 6, 2016)

I read through this thread again, because it bears a striking resemblance (in emotional toll) to my Commiserate with Me thread.

One thing I'm finding really interesting, and I'm not sure I mentioned it before, but I don't have a golden idea. 

You mentioned that you would put your book aside for a few months, and then character voices would haunt you. Do you really mean that? How does the story haunt you? What does it feel like, and how do you resist the temptation to answer the call, or do you answer it?

I'm sorry if that's too personal to talk about, I'm just genuinely intrigued, because for me, that has just never happened. I don't have stories that ask me to be told, or characters who are any more a part of me or my thought process than what I write on a page. If I'm not writing it or reading it, I don't think about it (except on rare occasion, when I'm doing a menial task like weeding the garden, and a solution to a plot problem or a scene lacking in emotional impact somehow becomes clear in my mind). But I just consider that is my subconscious mind always looking for solutions to problems I put on the to-do list for later.

Yeah, I joined up here in 2011, and I had a lot of novels finished already, and while I have my favorites, none of them is something I couldn't reject and stuff in a drawer forever.

I know you're looking for help, but would it derail your thread to explore what leads some writers to have a golden idea that they can't shake, and others to have almost no emotional connection to their books? I'm certainly in that second category, so I could speak on that subject, but I'm really struggling to understand what leads to the first. And my question isn't specifically aimed at any particular person. I don't want to put anyone on the spot, or anything.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Jul 6, 2016)

Devouring Wolf said:


> Obviously, I don't know you and I'd hate to be presumptuous, but I wonder if some of what you're feeling comes from a lack of confidence. I only say this because I never felt good at anything until I started writing, and then like you people would tell me I was good at it and I felt like it was my only ticket to being worth something because I didn't have any other talents. That's why when I wrote the first draft of my novel (like you I was very young at the time but I restarted before I managed to finish it because it was 80,000 words of utter nonsense) it was perhaps the one thing in life I didn't feel any pressure until one day my mother said maybe I should think about getting published since that time I felt a horrible anxiety about not being able to live up to her expectation. I was afraid if I couldn't be good at writing, I couldn't be good at anything.
> 
> I won't go into to much detail about how I overcame this, because it actually has nothing to do with writing and because the story's long enough to be a novel in and of itself. All I'll say is, what do you think is going to happen when your novel is perfect? Because if you're desire for it be perfect comes from anything other than your love for the story, if/when you finally get there you will feel unfulfilled. I myself am still working on the same story, and have been something like four years on and off (it certainly doesn't feel like its been that long). I may never finish, but I've made my peace with that. I'd rather I loved it completely even if not a single other person in the world does.



Your experience sounds very familiar to me. I've felt very often that if I can't write and sell books, I'll be forced into a job I hate to survive. I've also occasionally thought that writing is the only thing I'm good at--not true really, but it can seem convincing sometimes. 
And whenever people compliment my writing it puts pressure on me. I feel pressure and fear from a vast number of sources--I like writing things I will never show anyone because I can enjoy it without worrying about the things I usually worry about! 
I think I have this vision in my head of what I want the story to be, which is unattainable--especially since my idea of an "ideal" story changes as I read more and live more. Also, there are many books I've really loved until they really messed up and I couldn't love them anymore...I'm worried about ending up like them. 
So, in short--my worries come from everywhere. But what I really want is to write a story that brings joy to me, and that brings joy to readers. Whenever I read a great book and i can never see the world the same way afterward--a book that gets inside me and never really leaves--I think, I want to do this for someone! I have to do this for someone! 
I know I shouldn't be motivated by the idea of being read--but I DO want people to read and love my stories.


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## Demesnedenoir (Jul 6, 2016)

Nothing is wrong with being motivated by wanting to be read. The only bad motivation for writing is one that somehow trips a person up. So, too much emphasis on being loved can be bad. Writing for yourself is great, but heck, I've got the stories in my head, I don't need to read them. I want other people to read them and enjoy them. Otherwise, the point of all the hours typing is blunted, LOL.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Jul 6, 2016)

Caged Maiden said:


> I read through this thread again, because it bears a striking resemblance (in emotional toll) to my Commiserate with Me thread.
> 
> One thing I'm finding really interesting, and I'm not sure I mentioned it before, but I don't have a golden idea.
> 
> ...



It's all right; I don't mind discussing! 
First of all...You experience writing in a very different way than I do it seems. Of course, everyone's experience is different. 

You say that your characters aren't a part of you or your thought process except when you're writing them. I think that's how we're different. My characters live in my mind and are a part of my consciousness even when I'm not writing. I don't try to make them a certain way, I just let an idea develop in my mind and let it take on a life of its own. I hardly ever purposefully set down to invent characters. (and when I do, it doesn't work. I can write down traits and sketch out appearances, but if nothing clicks, it's not a living character.) They start to come on their own--first just a foggy image, then clearer as I get a better idea of who they are and what they are like. It seems like your ideas live on the paper, in the story itself, but mine live in my mind, and the story is somewhat an extension of that. I've been working with my main characters for a long time, so usually I let my subconscious take over when I'm writing them and let them have their way, because they know best about what they are like. Sometimes, when I'm having problems, I'll write out a scene in which I imagine my character sitting on my bed and me in my desk chair, and we talk it out. It sounds hokey, but it works. I think of my characters as forces I have to work and negotiate and cooperate with, instead of chess pieces I move around my plotline with character trait cards next to them where I write down everything that makes them different from the others. 

Also, writing isn't something I'm either doing or not doing. It's more a part of the nature of my mind than anything else. I'm always alert, picking up ideas from the world around me.  If I take a break for too long, they start to come back to me. Ideas show up, often out of nowhere. My ideas start to churn in my subconscious. And usually when this happens I feel the urge to write again. For me, writing, and other artistic endeavors (but mostly writing) release some kind of pressure. Its like thoughts and ideas and experiences build up in my mind that I have to get out somehow. I get irritable when I don't write--I think it's from all my ideas getting overcrowded up there. Writing makes me feel much more balanced. 

I don't know if I'm exactly emotionally attached to any story other than my current work in progress, but that's probably since the others are mostly gestating ideas. They don't live in my head like this one, their characters don't stay with me like this one. But, if I were fully invested in another story like this, it would be the same. Thing is, I can't really fully devote myself to more than one story at once. It just takes up so much space in my mind.


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## FifthView (Jul 6, 2016)

The "Golden Idea" is an odd thing.

What I've noticed for myself is that idea and story are really two separate things.  

The Golden Idea (or multiple golden ideas, in my case) is always amorphous, broad, and, when I get down to it, very paltry.  I mean that when I examine my Idea, I discover that it's really only about one thing.  A feeling.  A state of existence for a character and/or world.  No matter how "developed" the idea becomes with maps, character bios, magic system, world building, all of these things are really in service to that amorphous shape.  And it's a static shape.

A story is something else.  A story requires change, movement.  The characters change, their circumstances change, the world changes.  Things break; stasis is impossible for a story.

The problem comes when that Golden Idea's supporting features are considered through the lens of story.  If you've spent years building up all those supporting features like world, characters, and so forth, it's very hard to consider those things being other than what they are.  They are _already complete_.  But a story requires lack of completion, for a start, and it requires that things become broken, altered, changed from what they were.

On a related note...We see the Golden Ideas that others have apparently had, but we only see them in a state of completion.  For me, one example would be Herbert's _Dune_.   When I have a Golden Idea of my own, I want something like that.  But the problem is that we are only seeing the completed project, the published novel when we see others' works.  Though I do it too, we are being unfair with ourselves when we look at our just-begun or yet-to-be-begun projects and weigh them against those great books we've always enjoyed.  I would wager good money on the fact that their initial ideas and plans for their novels were somewhat different than the novels they eventually published.


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## Chessie (Jul 6, 2016)

An emotional connection to my books...to my characters...NAH.

I get ideas all the time but never in a million lifetimes will I be able to write them all. There's one fantasy world that I've developed and have written several stories out of. Currently, I have a series planned for that world and I'm on book one. After the series is wrapped up I have other ideas to go to and whichever I choose will depend on where I'm at in my craft. 

The only time I've ever felt attached to a story world or characters per say things went awfully wrong. For me, I enjoy my time in the story world with particular characters but I also love moving on to other projects. I'm a writer that wants to write as many books as possible before I die. Having a golden idea isn't a concept I'm familiar with. But everyone is different and there is no right or wrong way to do any of this. If being attached to a project drives your passion for it deeper and helps you write more, then that's awesome! If not, then hey that's cool, too.

We all face challenges while writing our stories. Those challenges are unique to the writer, which is why we must confront our difficulties and do the best we can to learn from them, apply the learned lessons to our next project and keep writing.


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## Demesnedenoir (Jul 6, 2016)

As a side note, while I have anxiety over quality and whether people will appreciate my work, whether I can get people emotionally invested in my stories, I have more anxiety when I can't write. 

As for characters and story, I am closer to Dragon, I'm constantly "writing" in my mind. Drives the wife crazy. But in a sense, my character is a world. If I live long enough, I will take the world to its destruction after several trilogies and stand alone books over time... where each is independent of each other, but in the background leading to an ultimate conclusion. 

Golden idea, sort of. But I've plenty of stand alone novel ideas in different genres thumping around in my head. They're all my babies, LOL.


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## Phantasy (Jul 9, 2016)

Just keep writing.


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## skip.knox (Jul 9, 2016)

> I don't know, I really can't imagine not being deeply connected to my stories, especially since most of them are based around issues from my own life. 

Isn't art weird? I like my stories and I like my characters, but they are not at all based around issues from my own life, not even when I was quite young. I just have a whole truckload of ideas and characters, and want to get them into stories. For those who write from personal passion I feel a kind of awe, like they can sing in another language.


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## Chessie (Jul 13, 2016)

Devouring Wolf said:


> I can completely understand all of this. I used to want to be a writer professionally (in fact i still do but I don't think it will happen) and I couldn't think of anything else I wanted to do so I used to have a lot of anxiety about what I would do with my life if I couldn't finish my book and get it published. Eventually did start seriously looking for other options, and I'm now going to try to become an editor, which while perhaps not my dream job is something I think I could be content doing for the rest of my life. Nothing will ever be as good as making being a full-time author, but I think if you can find a more stable career path to fall back on, it would reduce some of your anxiety.


This might not be the right thread for the response I'm about to give. However, since I'm responding to your response to the OP, it seems fair game. So...your post really stood out to me here. Why sell yourself short? And in addition, why recommend to the OP that he (or she) also sell himself short?

Times have changed. Traditional publishing isn't the only game in town anymore. Becoming a full time author is hard whether you do it Indie or Trad. Well, becoming good at any career takes time, patience, and a good work ethic. Whether you become a lawyer, doctor, teacher, whatever you still need to educate yourself, still need to put in your dues. Being a full time anything takes hard work. 

When you say, "I want to be a full time writer but don't think it will happen", it just sounds like you're not believing it will happen. You're not believing in yourself. Having an office job means you go to the office everyday. Well, being a full time writer means you write everyday. I know full time authors that only write 2k a day, or some as little as 1k a day. To someone only writing as a hobby that must seem like a lot but it really isn't.

Going traditional means you're at the mercy of agents and editors. Going Indie means you're at the mercy of your audience. Either way, you still have to do the work of figuring out what market you want to write to, what kind of stories you want to write, write those stories, have them edited, write blurbs, write queries, etc. Yes, it's hard. Yes, sometimes it seems impossible. But there are real live people out there making a living from their writing and most of them are independently published.

Readers only care if your work is professional, and it should be if you're going it alone (a lesson I've learned the hard way). But it's very, very possible to be a full time writer in this day and age. You do have to work hard. You do have to have patience. You do have to promote yourself. But it's worth it if that's your dream. Better than working at some job you dislike when you could be making a living telling stories.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Jul 19, 2016)

I thought I had figured it out, and I made it to 7,000 words, but now I'm stuck again and trying not to panic, because it always feels like it will last forever. I have no idea if I should take a break from it, or if I should keep going. This is a horrible, caged feeling. My characters still are lifeless and have no motivation, and I can't give them any. Also, what I have written is by far the worst I have done this year, even surpassing that truly bizarre thing about the expired Greek yogurt. At least, it seems that way. My plot is far too complicated and all my solutions to my problems complicate it still further. Basically, I started writing without a plan because I thought it could help me beat my anxiety, and now I'm stuck 4 chapters in due to not having a plan. I just want out of this.


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## Deleted member 4265 (Jul 19, 2016)

Chesterama said:


> This might not be the right thread for the response I'm about to give. However, since I'm responding to your response to the OP, it seems fair game. So...your post really stood out to me here. Why sell yourself short? And in addition, why recommend to the OP that he (or she) also sell himself short?



I think you missed the point of what I was saying. The OP stated that they felt anxious that if they couldn't become a professional author, they would have to take a job they hate, so I was trying to illustrate that while there may never be any day job that he or she enjoys as much as writing, but there might be something out there that they could be okay with doing because having a solid backup plan goes a long way to relieving that kind of anxiety. I wasn't telling them their dream of being a writer was unrealistic or anything like that. Granted I may have made a mistake using myself as an example, since I'm far from inspiring.


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## Deleted member 4265 (Jul 19, 2016)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> I thought I had figured it out, and I made it to 7,000 words, but now I'm stuck again and trying not to panic, because it always feels like it will last forever. I have no idea if I should take a break from it, or if I should keep going. This is a horrible, caged feeling. My characters still are lifeless and have no motivation, and I can't give them any. Also, what I have written is by far the worst I have done this year, even surpassing that truly bizarre thing about the expired Greek yogurt. At least, it seems that way. My plot is far too complicated and all my solutions to my problems complicate it still further. Basically, I started writing without a plan because I thought it could help me beat my anxiety, and now I'm stuck 4 chapters in due to not having a plan. I just want out of this.



I think maybe you should just take a moment to breath. No matter how good a writer you are, sometimes your writing will be terrible and that's okay. You can always fix it later. More often, I find in a situation like that, my writings fine and I'm just in the wrong frame of mind. When that happens the best thing (at least for me) is to take a deep breath, and realize its okay to start over, sometimes you have to, but its also not a decision to be taken lightly. Wait a few days, if it still seems salvageable then restart. More often than not you'll find there's a way to fix it.

When I'm horribly stuck its usually because of decisions I made earlier in the story so maybe go back and try to see where it went wrong. You might have to delete a bit or change something you really love, but that's better than continually starting over.

Or you could just wait for someone better at giving advice to come along and help.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Jul 19, 2016)

Devouring Wolf said:


> I think maybe you should just take a moment to breath. No matter how good a writer you are, sometimes your writing will be terrible and that's okay. You can always fix it later. More often, I find in a situation like that, my writings fine and I'm just in the wrong frame of mind. When that happens the best thing (at least for me) is to take a deep breath, and realize its okay to start over, sometimes you have to, but its also not a decision to be taken lightly. Wait a few days, if it still seems salvageable then restart. More often than not you'll find there's a way to fix it.
> 
> When I'm horribly stuck its usually because of decisions I made earlier in the story so maybe go back and try to see where it went wrong. You might have to delete a bit or change something you really love, but that's better than continually starting over.
> 
> Or you could just wait for someone better at giving advice to come along and help.



Thanks for replying. I'm quitting, at least temporarily, to work on a few other projects. I'm stuck on those too, but not as stuck as on this one. I don't know how long i should spend away from it. one minute i think i should take a year off, and the next i think i should keep going even though it's bad. 

i have a terribly complicated plot. I'm struggling horribly with character motivations. In the past i've put my characters in such horrible situations that their motivation to survive and get out of those horrible situations drives the story. However, i don't have any motivations that seem genuine right now. I've created a terribly bad situation for myself, having so many things i have to explain and accomplish, but the characters have neither the reason nor the ability to actually do anything to get the story started. also, i'm frustrated by the lack of tension and just the lack of anything important happening.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Jul 19, 2016)

but, when i try to work through these problems, i lose patience with myself because i feel like i'm not getting anywhere and the problems will never end. i'm not sure how much is genuinely in need of a solution and how much is manufactured by my anxiety, either.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Jul 19, 2016)

i've joined a couple challenges in the challenges forum, so that might help. especially top scribes V, because i am writing essentially a super hero story.


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## Penpilot (Jul 19, 2016)

One of the mistakes I use to run into quite often was I made my plots too complicated and convoluted. The moment I stopped doing that and kept things simple that things started to roll for me. The way I look at it is you build the complex on top of a simple foundation. I focused more on complexity of emotion instead of plot and I found my stories became better for it. And as it turns out when I focused on keeping things simple the stories became more layered.


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## Deleted member 4265 (Jul 19, 2016)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> Thanks for replying. I'm quitting, at least temporarily, to work on a few other projects. I'm stuck on those too, but not as stuck as on this one. I don't know how long i should spend away from it. one minute i think i should take a year off, and the next i think i should keep going even though it's bad.
> 
> i have a terribly complicated plot. I'm struggling horribly with character motivations. In the past i've put my characters in such horrible situations that their motivation to survive and get out of those horrible situations drives the story. However, i don't have any motivations that seem genuine right now. I've created a terribly bad situation for myself, having so many things i have to explain and accomplish, but the characters have neither the reason nor the ability to actually do anything to get the story started. also, i'm frustrated by the lack of tension and just the lack of anything important happening.



I was in a pretty similar situation with my story recently. The beginning was kind of a mess and I had a really hard time trying to figure out how to get my characters to do what I needed them to do for the plot. What I ended up doing was scrapping the beginning I had in mind and working from the climax backwards until I had the beginning. My story doesn't really start until one of my characters realizes the antagonist has the key to saving someone he cares about so I just went backwards from there and eventually all the pieces fell into place.

Also something to think about, the reason the entire beginning of my story lacked tension was largely due to the fact that my characters didn't have an explicit goal in the beginning, they were always reacting and didn't really have a plan beyond survival. They were being chased by demons and fighting for their lives, but despite all the action it just wasn't exiting until they decided to seek the help of a wizard. Suddenly it was a lot more intense because the story wasn't just will they survive? It was will they get to the wizard in time? Will the wizard actually be able to help them?


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Jul 19, 2016)

Things that come to mind: My characters need a desperate need. I need to have bad things happen. I need to figure out exactly what they are inside. I need to strip the story to its bones and find out what it is about at its core. 

The event that used to be my "inciting incident" now takes place much later in the story and is more like a "moment of truth" type thing. I went through and restructured the story, changed a bunch of things--now im in a fix. I'm thinking of starting a discussion about it on Brainstorming and Planning to get some fresh eyes on it. What with me have two main characters that alternate POV's and a convoluted plot, this is hard.


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## Deleted member 4265 (Jul 26, 2016)

I realize this is a late reply, and you've probably sorted the problem out anyways, but I felt compelled to reply to this. If you're still stuck I think posting in the Brainstorming and planning section would be a good idea. The people here at MS have been very helpful to me while working out the kinks in my plot.


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## FatCat (Jul 26, 2016)

I have severe anxiety. I deal with this by getting drunk. It's easy to say whatever you want when you don't care about what you say. 

I can say with complete earnestly that I feel what I write is trash. The backspace command is truly a best friend. And though I feel this way, I cannot help but try and try again. 

Failure is masked success, without one you can never see one.


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## skip.knox (Jul 27, 2016)

So,  DragonOfTheAerie, did you get it sorted?


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Jul 27, 2016)

skip.knox said:


> So,  DragonOfTheAerie, did you get it sorted?



I'm quitting for now. I tried to start writing again, but it fell in fast. I joined Top Scribe, to have something else to write, but that too is becoming a source of stress, and i don't know if i'll even be able to write a submission in time let alone get it ready. So...I don't know what to do. 

I spent most of the morning building Lego figures of my characters.


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## La Volpe (Jul 28, 2016)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> I'm quitting for now. I tried to start writing again, but it fell in fast. I joined Top Scribe, to have something else to write, but that too is becoming a source of stress, and i don't know if i'll even be able to write a submission in time let alone get it ready. So...I don't know what to do.
> 
> I spent most of the morning building Lego figures of my characters.



My gut says that this is the wrong move. But at the same time, I do understand the need to take a break at some point. So I can't give you a conclusive answer to what I think is the right move, but I have some insight that I've discovered about myself that might be useful to you.

For every novel that I've written from beginning to end, I've had a flop. As in, I outlined, and then started writing, and eventually got to a point (mostly at around the 50 or 60% mark) where I realised that the story just doesn't work like I thought it would. Then I struggle for days and writhe on the floor trying to come up with solutions to the impossible situations I've created. I suddenly feel like everything about the story is shallow and terrible and I just want to quit writing altogether and become a bean-farmer.

But then I start looking at the core of my story and I scrap almost everything I planned, designed and wrote, and I come up with a new story, built from the ashes of the old one. The core of the story, the things that made me want to write it, they're still there. But I build the rest from the ground up.

And in EVERY case, the resulting story is better. Much better.

Now I don't know if it's just my special blend of crazy, or if it's something that you should look at, but if I were to make a suggestion, it would be this:
Take a few days -- or weeks -- to figure out what the core of your story is. Take that core (that could include characters and places) and build something new out of it. Maybe it will turn out to be something that you don't like. Maybe it will turn out to be something better. If it's not, just discard it and keep at what you have. If it is, discard the old and keep going with the new.

Whether or not this seems like something that could work for you, I wish you luck in figuring out the problem.


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## Miskatonic (Jul 28, 2016)

Just remember that you can't really find out if something will or will not work until you test it. 

To quote Thomas Edison -

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."

You should apply that mindset to your writing. Take your idea, test it, see if it works, if it doesn't then you know that you have to change something and test it again. If it ultimately doesn't work you move on. It's not a failure on your part if an idea doesn't pan out, as long as you continue testing new ideas until you find one that fits. 

I know that it's reassuring to have your ideas validated and encouraged by members of this site, but in the end you ultimately answer to yourself and only yourself. I wouldn't rely on using the forum as a tool for screening _everything_ in your story in order to get a thumbs up or down by people who are not in your head space and can't completely understand what you are trying to accomplish. When I ask for advice I'm more focused on reader clarity and trimming what doesn't add to the story, not whether my idea is good or bad. 

Hope that helps a little.


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## skip.knox (Jul 28, 2016)

@DragonOfTheAerie, sorry to hear you hit the wall again. I recommend repeatedly running into it. Tough on the head, but it does build up your calf muscles. 

Have you thought about writing something low stakes? Something entirely different? There are about a kajillion writing prompts out there. It may be a waste of time but does have the virtue of keeping pen in hand.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Jul 28, 2016)

La Volpe said:


> My gut says that this is the wrong move. But at the same time, I do understand the need to take a break at some point. So I can't give you a conclusive answer to what I think is the right move, but I have some insight that I've discovered about myself that might be useful to you.
> 
> For every novel that I've written from beginning to end, I've had a flop. As in, I outlined, and then started writing, and eventually got to a point (mostly at around the 50 or 60% mark) where I realised that the story just doesn't work like I thought it would. Then I struggle for days and writhe on the floor trying to come up with solutions to the impossible situations I've created. I suddenly feel like everything about the story is shallow and terrible and I just want to quit writing altogether and become a bean-farmer.
> 
> ...



I understand what you're getting at. Especially the part about writhing on the floor and becoming a bean farmer. But i feel like i've already done these things. Look, i don't know how many times i've rewritten this. I don't know how many times i've tried to scrap everything and build something new from the ideas i like best. I don't know why it doesn't work. 

So, i gave up, because that seemed like the only thing left...


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## Chessie (Jul 28, 2016)

This thread highlights the main reason why I don't rewrite: the manuscript will never be good enough. Why waste my time rewriting the same story over and over and over and over and over and over again when the best use of my sacred hours is in starting/finishing another project? That results in more than one book under my belt, more stories to gain experiece writing, more characters and worlds to explore. To each their own but at some point, we must accept that the story will never be perfect. Nothing in this life is, and we just hold ourselves back when we chase perfection 'til our dying days.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Jul 28, 2016)

skip.knox said:


> @DragonOfTheAerie, sorry to hear you hit the wall again. I recommend repeatedly running into it. Tough on the head, but it does build up your calf muscles.
> 
> Have you thought about writing something low stakes? Something entirely different? There are about a kajillion writing prompts out there. It may be a waste of time but does have the virtue of keeping pen in hand.



That's exactly what ive been doing. And i realized recently that it's not helping. I know i'm not always going to enjoy what i'm writing, but when it's making me miserable, i have no choice but to walk away. 

I write a lot of crap. I do a lot of sitting down and writing the first thing that comes to mind, and continuing with it until i can't think of anywhere else to take it. Some of that stuff is terrible, some of it sparks new ideas that could be more than terrible, and some of it is actually very good. However, it gets tedious after a while, simply because i have no emotional connection to any of it. 

Other people on here have stated that they have no emotional connection to any of their works. I can't imagine that. If i can't bond with a story, i get bored of it very quickly, and i have no motivation to continue. However, if i can connect emotionally to a story, that connection will see me through the hard times and help me to continue. My current work has always been my favorite story. i've taken long breaks from it at times, but it's always been there, tugging at the edges of my mind, beckoning me back. It's been a long time since i've actually been able to work on it, and that is weighing on me. 

I'm looking for something to care about, if that makes sense. I've been looking through all my old idea notebooks, but none of them are speaking to me. They're just concepts mostly, and i don't have any characters for them, or even a plot. I have many great ideas that could be made into best-selling novels, but i have no motivation to write them. I'll probably come back to them later, but as of now...? 

Again, Top Scribe is turning out to be much more stressful than i thought it would be. The deadline is less than two weeks away and i still don't have a basic plotline for the story. The prompts are very limiting and i'm having difficulty including them all. Since most of the scoring depends on how well you incorporated the prompts i might as well not enter.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Jul 28, 2016)

Chesterama said:


> This thread highlights the main reason why I don't rewrite: the manuscript will never be good enough. Why waste my time rewriting the same story over and over and over and over and over and over again when the best use of my sacred hours is in starting/finishing another project? That results in more than one book under my belt, more stories to gain experiece writing, more characters and worlds to explore. To each their own but at some point, we must accept that the story will never be perfect. Nothing in this life is, and we just hold ourselves back when we chase perfection 'til our dying days.



I'm looking to publish, so that makes rewriting necessary.


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## Chessie (Jul 28, 2016)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> I'm looking to publish, so that makes rewriting necessary.


Right. So giving up will get you published?


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Jul 28, 2016)

Chesterama said:


> Right. So giving up will get you published?



Not permanently. What i was doing before wasn't getting me any closer to publishing than giving up. I needed distance.


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## ddmealing (Jul 28, 2016)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> I'm looking to publish, so that makes rewriting necessary.



Absolutely! If I didn't do any rewrites my stuff would be totally unreadable.

There's a point where you need to be able to say enough is enough, but a few revisions are necessary if you intend for anyone else to read it. Huge difference between draft #3 and draft #30.


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## Chessie (Jul 28, 2016)

ddmealing said:


> Absolutely! If I didn't do any rewrites my stuff would be totally unreadable.
> 
> There's a point where you need to be able to say enough is enough, but a few revisions are necessary if you intend for anyone else to read it. Huge difference between draft #3 and draft #30.


Who said anything about leaving the manuscript unreadable? That's completely misunderstanding the point. I totally polish my manuscripts, have them looked at, edit some more, etc. But rewriting entire scenes is a no no. Typically, weak structure in the first draft remains weak in the consecutive drafts. This is something that I've heard editors say as well as some prolific authors. The best way to avoid having to do 30 rewrites of a manuscript is to continue studying story structure and try to get _that_ as close to right the first time. But no one said anything about not editing or polishing. If you're doing 30 drafts of your work and your story is still not perfect or to your satisfaction, think of how many beginnings of other stories you could have conquered in all that time. How many endings. How many middles. How many antagonists, main characters, plot structure you could've tackled, etc. Every story is different and requires unique approaches. Rewriting the same story 30x isn't going to propel your skill forward in the same way as writing something new each time. Just my 2 cents.


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## Chessie (Jul 28, 2016)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> Not permanently. What i was doing before wasn't getting me any closer to publishing than giving up. I needed distance.


Aye. Distance is good. Gotcha.


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## ddmealing (Jul 28, 2016)

Chesterama said:


> But rewriting entire scenes is a no no. Typically, weak structure in the first draft remains weak in the consecutive drafts.



Well, YMMV of course. I rewrote over 100,000 words of my first novel during the second draft. I rewrote the last 20,000 words in my most recent draft because my editor had a better idea for the ending. 

I think there comes a point where you need to let your projects go out into the wild, but I have no sacred cows at all when it comes to my work. If a scene needs to be deleted or rewritten to make the book stronger, it gets deleted or rewritten. Some of the best stuff in my novel came in the 10th, 11th, 12th drafts, and I've rewritten chapters many, many times trying to get them right.

I am a pure discovery writer though. Sometimes I need to try and fail to find the right way through a scene, a plot arc, etc. Heavy outliners probably have a totally different experience.


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## Deleted member 4265 (Jul 28, 2016)

Whether you take a break or not is entirely your decision, but I would suggest you think about why you're so unable to have a connection to your writing. What changed?

It may not be writing related at all. Sometimes other things in our lives leave us so emotionally drained or distracted we just don't have anything left to give to our writing. I'm not saying that's it, but if its a problem you've grappled with for awhile, I think its worth examining other areas of your life to see if something's effecting your ability to write.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Jul 28, 2016)

Chesterama said:


> Who said anything about leaving the manuscript unreadable? That's completely misunderstanding the point. I totally polish my manuscripts, have them looked at, edit some more, etc. But rewriting entire scenes is a no no. Typically, weak structure in the first draft remains weak in the consecutive drafts. This is something that I've heard editors say as well as some prolific authors. The best way to avoid having to do 30 rewrites of a manuscript is to continue studying story structure and try to get _that_ as close to right the first time. But no one said anything about not editing or polishing. If you're doing 30 drafts of your work and your story is still not perfect or to your satisfaction, think of how many beginnings of other stories you could have conquered in all that time. How many endings. How many middles. How many antagonists, main characters, plot structure you could've tackled, etc. Every story is different and requires unique approaches. Rewriting the same story 30x isn't going to propel your skill forward in the same way as writing something new each time. Just my 2 cents.



Sometimes you can't get it right on the first try. I always have to write it and see what happens. I can't tell, from how an idea looks in an outline, how the idea will work in the real thing. Rewriting is necessary most of the time, at least for me. If i tried to get everything right on the first try, it would be so stressful i would never write a word. The freedom to rewrite is what gives me the freedom to make mistakes. 

To each their own, i guess.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Jul 28, 2016)

Chesterama said:


> Who said anything about leaving the manuscript unreadable? That's completely misunderstanding the point. I totally polish my manuscripts, have them looked at, edit some more, etc. But rewriting entire scenes is a no no. Typically, weak structure in the first draft remains weak in the consecutive drafts. This is something that I've heard editors say as well as some prolific authors. The best way to avoid having to do 30 rewrites of a manuscript is to continue studying story structure and try to get _that_ as close to right the first time. But no one said anything about not editing or polishing. If you're doing 30 drafts of your work and your story is still not perfect or to your satisfaction, think of how many beginnings of other stories you could have conquered in all that time. How many endings. How many middles. How many antagonists, main characters, plot structure you could've tackled, etc. Every story is different and requires unique approaches. Rewriting the same story 30x isn't going to propel your skill forward in the same way as writing something new each time. Just my 2 cents.



I'm not an outliner, so this might be the difference between the two of us. Whenever i outline, i end up having to throw out most of it when writing because it just didn't work out the way i'd planned.


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## Chessie (Jul 28, 2016)

I'm actually a huge pantser. Many times I've written about my process on this site and I'm very vocal about how outlining bores me to death, and how I've only finished 2 stories of the several I've outlined. The story I'm working on atm is from a half-baked outline, where I'm making the effort to learn and memorize romance plot structure so I never have to outline again. I'm simply trying to help but you keep making assumptions and shooting down what I'm saying in good faith. So okay.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Jul 28, 2016)

Chesterama said:


> I'm actually a huge pantser. Many times I've written about my process on this site and I'm very vocal about how outlining bores me to death, and how I've only finished 2 stories of the several I've outlined. The story I'm working on atm is from a half-baked outline, where I'm making the effort to learn and memorize romance plot structure so I never have to outline again. I'm simply trying to help but you keep making assumptions and shooting down what I'm saying in good faith. So okay.



Sorry, i know you're trying to help. When you talked about planning everything out beforehand i assumed you meant outline. What do you mean by getting the story structure right before writing if not outline?


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## evolution_rex (Jul 28, 2016)

This is probably the best place to share my recent story;

I took a break from writing my horror WIP in May and June, because I had finished the first draft. I was suppose to get started on it at the beginning of July, but I really procrastinated. My main issue is that I do a lot of outlining and stuff, but when reviewing my first draft, I came up with so many improvements that it became overwhelming. I didn't know how to change all at once. So I tried to do a new outline, my hope was to start from scratch. But I hated that, and the idea of completely rewriting things really made me feel sick.

It wasn't until Sunday that I just started making a new draft with an unfinished outline. It feels good, I've been salvaging paragraphs from my previous draft and starting all new stuff from scratch and it feels good. My main problem is just how poorly written it is. At this point I'm not even going for an attempt at quality, it's really just to get words down. Which pains me, but it's the only way I know how do to it.

What worries me is that I don't know how long I'll be doing this 'not trying to care about how I write, just getting words down' so that I can get the story out of the way. What if by the time I review the second draft, I find more ideas for improvement? Am I just going to be rewriting and rewriting? The way I'm writing now makes me feel stupid and isn't enjoyable. How long does this last? I know there isn't an answer, but I understand the feeling of anxiety.


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## Heliotrope (Jul 28, 2016)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> Sorry, i know you're trying to help. When you talked about planning everything out beforehand i assumed you meant outline. What do you mean by getting the story structure right before writing if not outline?



I'll respond to this, even though it was directed at Chesterama. Chessie describes herself as a pantser, and i describe myself as a plotter... but actually the more I learn about Chessie the more I think she and I are very similar in our approach. 

So, for example, I typically use 3 act story structure and this story planning format

Dirty 30s! - The Lester Dent Pulp Paper Master Fiction Plot

In the beginning, I did a lot of plotting so I could memorize the story format, as Chesterama describes. Now that I've done it a hundred times on stories varying from 100 words to 100,000 words I have the format down. Memorized. Now as I'm writing I know exactly what needs to go where without having to majorly plot anything out. 

Let me expand (this might be long): 

Let's pretend I'm drafting a Middle Grades time travel story for kids ages 9-13 (which is my current WIP). Typically stories for this age range are 50,000-70,000 words. 

Ok, so since I've done this a hundred times I don't need to do too much outlining. I _did_ do a "mock-up", which is what I call a very quick draft, usually around 10,000 words, showing what should happen where. But as I get into drafting I know that: 

If I want the story to be around 70,000 words TOPS then the first 

17,500 words is ACT ONE, split into five Chapters of 3500 words. 

Act One must include very specific things: 

*Chapter 1* - Set up, life before the shit hits the fan. Shows the character has a problem but is not yet ready to deal with it. Shows the characters strengths and flaws. Hint at all the main characters and the main conflict. 

*Chapter 2* - Theme stated, what is this story going to be about? What lessons will this character have to learn? This should be hinted at, not explicitly stated. 

*Chapter 3* - Catalyst. This is where stuff starts to go bad, or things need to change. Something big has rocked the character's world and she has to make a CHOICE. 

*Chapter 4* - Debate. This is when Rapunzel goes back and forth in Tangled about whether she should go with Flynn Ryder or not. She feels so free! But also so worried her mother will be angry. The character should not make a huge choice without having a huge internal debate about the choice. This needs to be a hard choice and she needs to weigh the options. 

*Chapter 5*- Inciting moment. This is where she is forced to make the choice and enter into the story world. She cannot go back to the way things were before. She is officially re-acting to whatever the inciting event was, and has a goal to try to solve the problem. 

End of Act 1. The next 17,500 words make up 

*ACT 2: PART 1 *

*Chapter 6* - B-plot. This is where the theme starts to come into play. This is like an aside scene where I may include a touching father/daughter moment, a love scene, or focus on a subplot that ties into the main plot. This could also be a scene where I show bad guys being bad (like a scene from another POV). 

*Chapters 7-9* - Fun and Games! The Main character and her crew are getting down and dirty to achieve their goal. They have a plan, they are putting that plan into action, things are going wrong, try-fail cycles abound, but it is awesome! This is called fun and games because it is usually all the awesome stuff that you see in movie trailers. If you want sword fights on burning buildings in thunder storms with flying dragons _this_ is where you would put it. This is the promise of the premise. This is where, if the reader read "time traveling pirates" on the back of the book, you would put all the awesome stuff that comes along with time traveling pirates. Sword fights in the subway station, flying ships, ancient cursed treasure and the beasts that guard it, etc. 
*
Chapter 10* -* Midpoint reversal*. Horray! The team has achieved their goal! They got into the treasure vault and they have managed to steal the treasure and defeat the horrible beast that guards it! Maybe they will be able to stop the curse after all! 

*But.... *

The midpoint reversal is the ultimate BUT. 

But, as soon as they touch the treasure they realize that the beast that was guarding it was not wanting to protect the treasure... It was trying to protect _them from the treasure!_ With the guardian beast now dead the cursed souls trapped in the treasure are able to roam free and take over New York. Now the only way to save New York is to take the treasure back to where it came from, but that is impossible without them all becoming cursed themselves. 

The midpoint reversal is about new information. A new twist. A big but. A new goal. Things are worse off then ever before. Stakes are raised. 

The next 17,500 words is *Act 2: Part two.* 

*Chapters 11-14* are what I call* "Bad guys close in"*. This is where fun and games are over and things are starting to get bad. Friends are lost. The main characters team can't agree and there starts to be issues within the team. The team breaks up. People are captured. The main character gets weaker and weaker and weaker until it seems almost impossible. They catch the whiff of death. They are going to give up. Finally, they think they have a plan. They think they can defeat this thing once and for all. They think they have it all figured out. 

*Chapter 15:* But they don't. This is the *Act 2 Disaster.* This is the worst thing that could possibly happen. This is where the character makes once last ditch effort and fails. Miserably. There is another twist here. Another But. New information. New secrets revealed. The main character learns they never had a chance. 

Finally, the last 17,500 words are Act 3. 

*Chapter 16:* Despair. The world is over. The villain is impossible to beat. 

*Chapter 17*: Glimmer! Hope! Wait a minute! The answer was there all along! Oh, how could I have been so stupid! It was right under my nose! Pick up boot straps and try again, one last time. 

*Chapter 18*: Climax. The ultimate face off. New knowledge gained. A new twist and finally.... 

*Chapter 19*: Success! Horray! The main character learns their lesson, over comes their flaw and achieves success. 

*Chapter 20*: Final scene. The opposite of the opening scene, showing change and progress. 

The End. 

^^^^ Is my story format that I like to use. I have the entire thing memorized and I use it over and over and over again. When I tell stories to my son at night, when I write shorts, when I write novellas, everything. Always that story structure. I have it memorized so I have very little plotting to do. I know as I'm going where I need to add in something, or when I know that something big needs to be coming. 

So usually when I start a story I have an idea of a beginning (inciting moment) a middle (midpoint reversal) and-and end (climax) but then often fill in the blanks as I go.


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## Chessie (Jul 28, 2016)

@Helio, yes. Great, thorough explanation! You do it per chapter, I do it per beats. Every scene has 1-2 plot beats, and every chapter has 2-3 scenes. The beats are just what I know _must_ go in the story, but this is rarely something I plot out before I begin writing. My story ideas come flooding in with scenes and impressions of characters. I'll write out the information on paper during a brainstorming session. Then I'll start writing asap. I lay down beats as I write, thinking, "okay, I'm getting the feeling that this has been the intro along with character flaw established, now it's time for Meet Cute", and etc. I don't write a 20 page outline before starting; it's just intuitive at this point if that makes sense.

The only reason why I plotted this particular novella with a romance plot book is because my romance plots needed massive help, and romance is very specific in what it requires for readers to be fulfilled. Once I get the structure down (notice I said structure), then I'll never plot again. And that's the beauty of it. I like being able to just write once I have enough information about character, setting, plot. It's formulaic but really, that's what sells books. Readers like certain things. We've talked about this before. But I'd say the only difference is that once I get the first draft down, I don't rewrite any of the scenes. The beats are established already and that's the basic skeleton of the story. If the skeleton is deformed, then I can't straighten it out no matter how hard I try to polish my prose.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Jul 28, 2016)

Chesterama said:


> @Helio, yes. Great, thorough explanation! You do it per chapter, I do it per beats. Every scene has 1-2 plot beats, and every chapter has 2-3 scenes. The beats are just what I know _must_ go in the story, but this is rarely something I plot out before I begin writing. My story ideas come flooding in with scenes and impressions of characters. I'll write out the information on paper during a brainstorming session. Then I'll start writing asap. I lay down beats as I write, thinking, "okay, I'm getting the feeling that this has been the intro along with character flaw established, now it's time for Meet Cute", and etc. I don't write a 20 page outline before starting; it's just intuitive at this point if that makes sense.
> 
> The only reason why I plotted this particular novella with a romance plot book is because my romance plots needed massive help, and romance is very specific in what it requires for readers to be fulfilled. Once I get the structure down (notice I said structure), then I'll never plot again. And that's the beauty of it. I like being able to just write once I have enough information about character, setting, plot. It's formulaic but really, that's what sells books. Readers like certain things. We've talked about this before. But I'd say the only difference is that once I get the first draft down, I don't rewrite any of the scenes. The beats are established already and that's the basic skeleton of the story. If the skeleton is deformed, then I can't straighten it out no matter how hard I try to polish my prose.



For me, rewriting scenes is more about tweaking the plot than polishing the prose. I might have to try several possibilities to see which one works the best.


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## Demesnedenoir (Jul 28, 2016)

Yeah I haven't done a formal layout of a story since screenwriting... And then only one or two there. I don't think much about it anymore, except out of curiosity to see how something I wrote fits the models... Much like a horoscope, it can invariably be made to fit, LOL. Different people will define rewrite and revision differently, for others they are interchangable. I don't rewrite, I revise, and I will drop entire subplots/POVs if things are running too long. Rewrite as in toss it and start over, never, the bones of the story are too figured out in my head to change, but the meat can change.


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## La Volpe (Jul 29, 2016)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> That's exactly what ive been doing. And i realized recently that it's not helping. I know i'm not always going to enjoy what i'm writing, but when it's making me miserable, i have no choice but to walk away.
> <snip>
> Other people on here have stated that they have no emotional connection to any of their works. I can't imagine that. If i can't bond with a story, i get bored of it very quickly, and i have no motivation to continue. However, if i can connect emotionally to a story, that connection will see me through the hard times and help me to continue. My current work has always been my favorite story. i've taken long breaks from it at times, but it's always been there, tugging at the edges of my mind, beckoning me back. It's been a long time since i've actually been able to work on it, and that is weighing on me.
> 
> I'm looking for something to care about, if that makes sense. I've been looking through all my old idea notebooks, but none of them are speaking to me. They're just concepts mostly, and i don't have any characters for them, or even a plot. I have many great ideas that could be made into best-selling novels, but i have no motivation to write them. I'll probably come back to them later, but as of now...?



Well, I think that you just have one brand of connection to a story, as opposed to the other brands of connections other people have.

To try and explain, let's take myself as an example. I write stories because I like cool things like people flying through the air with giant swords and fighting monsters. I like awesome magic and cool technology. It's the same reason why I like the Mistborn novels, but not the Great Gatsby. My 'connection' is the cool stuff that happens. And in addition to that, I like the craft part of it, where I can create an impression of a person simply by adding words.

So, to put this in perspective: When I lose my motivation to write, I try to come back to the thing that made this connection for me in the first place, and I often find that I've endlessly postponed or otherwise watered it down. So I find a way to put the cool stuff that made me want to write the story in the scene I'm busy with. Kind of a "add a man with a gun and explain it later" kind of deal. Just to get me excited about the story again.

Something else that makes me excited to write is when I read about a technique for making a villain, or a technique for making your character more sympathetic etc. I read it, and I start to make connections to my current story and figure out how I could implement this. It makes me excited enough that I can barely finish the article/book/etc. before going back and writing/outlining with that in mind.

So, what is my point? You need to concretely identify what it is that you need to be connected to a story. For me it's cool swords, magic, and monsters. For you, it's something else, maybe, or a collection of something-elses. You say that you're looking for something to care about, and for your stories to speak to you. Your answer lies in there somewhere, but you need to dig deeper until you find a _concrete_ answer for what it is that makes you connected to a story and what makes you excited about it. Then find that thing in your story again, and write.

BUT. It is also possible that you're just burned out. So your instinct might be right. You've been working on this story for a long time, and you're constantly pushing yourself to make it perfect. Sometimes, when something is difficult (and writing definitely hits that mark) and you've been at it too long, you just need to take a break, have some tea, build some LEGO figures, and get some sleep. Then you come back to it when you're ready.



> Again, Top Scribe is turning out to be much more stressful than i thought it would be. The deadline is less than two weeks away and i still don't have a basic plotline for the story. The prompts are very limiting and i'm having difficulty including them all. Since most of the scoring depends on how well you incorporated the prompts i might as well not enter.



Well, the incorporation of the prompts are 10/25 points (you'll note that the scores out of 10 are combined into a single item of 10 points). So it's pretty important, but it might be a good exercise to get something written and submitted, even if it's not perfect.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Jul 31, 2016)

In the last couple days I have been going through various stages of writers' panic. good thing I'm mule-headed.


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## skip.knox (Jul 31, 2016)

The Seven Stages of Writer's Panic: panic, panic, panic, panic, panic, breathe, panic


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## Addison (Jul 31, 2016)

Every writer handles panic their own way, just as their panic manifests in different way. Overall there's three ways I deal with the panic: Eat/Drink chocolate, Go on a walk/hike, Daydream. A rare 4th is I read, it's rare because if I read while I'm in a panic then the story I read infects my story. Characters, setting and plot seep into mine. 

The panic comes in waves, some panic more prominent at different times. Stage 1: I go through my story and delete things that don't belong. 2: Try and fail to write scenes to fill the space. 3: Delete the scenes from stage 2. 4: Freak out and pray I can retrieve what I deleted in stage 1. 5: Go through the outlining process. 6: Stress about the outline process as I set my story under a powerful microscope and try rearranging it like a jigsaw puzzle w/o borders. 7: After a significant gorging, and a long hike to walk it off then sleep/daydream for such a time my family thinks I'm gone, I force myself to re-read my entire story AGAIN, but with fresh eyes and refreshed passion, trying not to throw up as I realize I need someone else to read it to get the feedback I need. 

Every writer has anxiety. The trick is to know when and how your anxiety manifests and how to deal with it.


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