# Writing narration in Present tense



## Devora (Nov 26, 2017)

I'm currently writing a story where I am experimenting with using present tense instead of the usual past tense for overall narration. (I can blame my endeavor into screenplay formatting.) I'm not sure how it will come off to others but I'm liking it so far. 

I'm curious as to what everyone stance and opinion on using present tense to narrate a story.


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## Peat (Nov 26, 2017)

People who write fiction in present tense should receive 20 year custodial sentences with no right to parole.

I'm kinda serious. It feels wrong and stilted, and generally when I'm reading present tense, I wonder why I'm feeling so distant from the story until about five pages in I'll clock its present tense. Which is usually when the book goes down. I made an exception for City of Stairs as I thought it was everything I wanted from a fantasy novel, but it still grated all the way through and I refused to buy the sequel as a result. Its like someone's rocked up to my table with a Michelin starred meal only to open up a vein right above it and let it rain. It is, in short, the fastest way to ruin a book for me that I know of.

That said, I must accept my incredible levels of animus against Present Tense are somewhat far from universal, and its not done Jemisin or Bennett any harm that I know of... although, now I think about it, neither seem to get as many props as their talent deserves on forums.


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## Svrtnsse (Nov 26, 2017)

In my novella Emma's Story I'm switching back and forth between past and present tense. I quite enjoyed writing it, but reader reaction has been very mixed, ranging all the way from "I love it" to "I found it condescending" so it's definitely not for everyone.


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## Steerpike (Nov 26, 2017)

Present tense works just fine, and is a perfectly legitimate alternative to past tense. It’s fairly common these days, particularly in YA literature, but of course not limited to that. It’s not really that different, substantively, from past tense, and the reactions against it are not entirely rational (though they do exist, so if that matters to you it is worth taking into account).


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## Demesnedenoir (Nov 26, 2017)

Present tense doesn’t bug me, thanks to screenwriting (perhaps), but I also get the odd reaction people have to it. Rational/irrational is up for debate and depends entirely on how you frame the argument.


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## FifthView (Nov 26, 2017)

Like Steerpike, I'd stress that present tense is much more common and accepted than one might think—I mean, one who asks the question in the OP . I'd say, if it's what you want to do, then go for it.

I also recognize the existence of strong negativity toward present tense narrative. It's a visceral reaction some readers will naturally have. Whether rational or not, that's a real reaction. So that's something to be considered perhaps, but it's probably not a consideration that should stop you from writing present tense narrative if that's what you want to do. Heck, some people react negatively toward the fantasy genre. Or, toward just about anything that can be done in fiction.

If I put my "Objective Hat" on and try to guess the source of the negativity, my guess would be that bad or mediocre writing can be exacerbated or more noticed when the narrative style is a-typical in a reader's experience. Past tense is by far the most common narrative tense, and the oddness of a present tense narrative draws attention to whatever other flaws or weaknesses might exist. But the other side of the coin is that a well-written story in present tense might easily jump that hurdle of oddness for a reader.


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## Steerpike (Nov 26, 2017)

Demesnedenoir said:


> Present tense doesn’t bug me, thanks to screenwriting (perhaps), but I also get the odd reaction people have to it. Rational/irrational is up for debate and depends entirely on how you frame the argument.



What I mean is that the dislike doesn’t appear to be the product of rational analysis, but more of a gut reaction to something out of the ordinary. People are entitled to like or dislike what they want, I’m just distinguishing it from a quantified, reasoned analysis. There really isn’t much apart from familiarity to distinguish it from past tense. You can write any past tense passage in present tense and to me it works the same. People say present tense provides a certain immediacy but I never feel that when reading it.


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## Steerpike (Nov 26, 2017)

FifthView good point—I think anything unconventional (or perceived as such) is bound to result in more analysis of the mechanics of the text, and this flaws that would exist even in a more conventional approach seem to stand out more.  I’ve read enough present tense now that I don’t really notice it, except initially, as in: “Oh, this is in present tense.” After that I just read it like anything else.


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## Svrtnsse (Nov 26, 2017)

FifthView said:


> If I put my "Objective Hat" on and try to guess the source of the negativity, my guess would be that bad or mediocre writing can be exacerbated or more noticed when the narrative style is a-typical in a reader's experience.


It could also be even simpler than that - along the lines of: "it's not what I'm used to, so it makes me uncomfortable"
That kind of reaction can be really strong.


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## FifthView (Nov 26, 2017)

Svrtnsse said:


> It could also be even simpler than that - along the lines of: "it's not what I'm used to, so it makes me uncomfortable"
> That kind of reaction can be really strong.



Possibly, the initial reaction might prevent discovering whether the rest of the story is flawed or weak.


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## Devora (Nov 26, 2017)

FifthView said:


> Possibly, the initial reaction might prevent discovering whether the rest of the story is flawed or weak.



There's definitely a bias for past tense since almost every story is told from this perspective alone. Unorthodoxy is almost always met with some contempt, and it seems present tense is one of those instances.

I think Svrtnsse is right in that most of the criticism is based off gut reaction since people are more comfortable with the familiar and orthodox.


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## Steerpike (Nov 26, 2017)

Yes, but it is becoming much less unorthodox. A lot of YA is in present tense and has been for a number of years. Those readers move into adulthood and present tense novels don’t faze them.


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## Malik (Nov 26, 2017)

I approach anything written in present tense with trepidation. It's a severely limiting form, and you have to really have some chops to pull it off. It's like writing an entire novel in iambic pentameter or haiku. Most authors aren't good enough to wear a straitjacket and write a novel with their teeth, which is stylistically what present tense is. I'm not saying most indie authors; I mean most authors. I give it a few pages, but when I start to see repetitive constructions and echoed forms--and I almost always do--I pop smoke. YMMV.


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## TheCrystallineEntity (Nov 26, 2017)

<People who write fiction in present tense should receive 20 year custodial sentences with no right to parole.>
Don't read any of my books, then. It's first person and third person present tense in almost all of them.
It sounds more natural to me than past tense, and I know how weird that is, but I'm essentially a weird being, through and through.
Also, please don't arrest me.


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## Svrtnsse (Nov 26, 2017)

You believe the weirdest you've read in this regard is Halting State by Charles Stross. It took you some time to get used to it, but once you did you found that it worked pretty well. You still haven't read another book like it though, and you often bring up as an example of weird books. You don't think that you yourself would be able to write an entire story in second person.


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## TheCrystallineEntity (Nov 26, 2017)

I've written several poems in second person, but so far, no books.


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## TheCrystallineEntity (Nov 26, 2017)

^^Interestingly, the book takes place one year from now.


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## Heliotrope (Nov 26, 2017)

I like it. All the present tense I've ever read I've liked. It is pretty common now. I don't get the hate for it? Or the trepedition? I don't write in present tense, because I think you need the write story set up, which I don't have in my stories, but I'd love to try it


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## Svrtnsse (Nov 26, 2017)

TheCrystallineEntity said:


> I've written several poems in second person, but so far, no books.


I saw. I had to look it up as I'd forgotten who wrote it. One of the "risks" of writing near-future fiction.


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## Devora (Nov 26, 2017)

Malik said:


> I approach anything written in present tense with trepidation. It's a severely limiting form, and you have to really have some chops to pull it off. It's like writing an entire novel in iambic pentameter or haiku. Most authors aren't good enough to wear a straitjacket and write a novel with their teeth, which is stylistically what present tense is. I'm not saying most indie authors; I mean most authors. I give it a few pages, but when I start to see repetitive constructions and echoed forms--and I almost always do--I pop smoke. YMMV.



I guess that's why i decided to write a story in it; I want to challenge myself and I'm getting bored of the same style I've tried using.


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## Steerpike (Nov 26, 2017)

Malik said:


> I approach anything written in present tense with trepidation. It's a severely limiting form, and you have to really have some chops to pull it off. It's like writing an entire novel in iambic pentameter or haiku. Most authors aren't good enough to wear a straitjacket and write a novel with their teeth, which is stylistically what present tense is. I'm not saying most indie authors; I mean most authors. I give it a few pages, but when I start to see repetitive constructions and echoed forms--and I almost always do--I pop smoke. YMMV.



I don’t agree that it is any more limiting than past tense, and I think the two are virtually interchangeable. You can take a past tense passage and rewrite it in present and it is essentially the same.


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## Steerpike (Nov 26, 2017)

Heliotrope said:


> I like it. All the present tense I've ever read I've liked. It is pretty common now. I don't get the hate for it? Or the trepedition? I don't write in present tense, because I think you need the write story set up, which I don't have in my stories, but I'd love to try it



Yes, it is becoming more common in adult fiction. There is tons of YA written this way, and not because YA authors are uniquely skilled and able to pull it off, but because in terms of writing skill there’s really no difference in writing present tense versus past tense.


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## Svrtnsse (Nov 26, 2017)

Steerpike said:


> Yes, it is becoming more common in adult fiction. There is tons of YA written this way, and not because YA authors are uniquely skilled and able to pull it off, but because in terms of writing skill there’s really no difference in writing present tense versus past tense.


Would this be due to the tendency of YA to strive for more immediacy (is that the right word), with bringing out the events and actions and getting it as close to the reader as possible? I know you mentioned you don't yourself see that difference between past and present tense, but I do think it's there.


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## Chessie2 (Nov 26, 2017)

I don't like present tense. Good luck getting me past the first sentence. It's the same with me as first person. I won't read books written in first or present. It's too unnatural a feel for me. I think my head just thinks differently and those tenses don't allow me to use my imagination.

That being said, I have liked Svrtnsse's scenes in present tense and have read shorts for a fellow writer written in present that was very good but I think her voice shines in those. However, when asked to read round 2 I politely declined. Btw, a lot of new adult fiction is written in first person present and seems to be all the rage.


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## FifthView (Nov 26, 2017)

Steerpike said:


> I don’t agree that it is any more limiting than past tense, and I think the two are virtually interchangeable. You can take a past tense passage and rewrite it in present and it is essentially the same.



Is it more limiting from a marketing standpoint, I wonder? I mean, what's the ratio of "used to it/open to it" and "my visceral reaction is heck no"?

There's an interesting question of whether, being interchangeable, this is a Buridan's Ass sort of thing. How to choose? Personally, I don't care how a writer chooses—choose to use whichever you want—except to the extent that I'm curious whether there'll be some payoff to the choice made. Also, I know you said "virtually," heh, and I tend to believe that different approaches might have slightly different benefits. That's my tendency for weighing the choices:  What will I gain from writing this in present tense? I do believe there are benefits, either way, but I'm not sure we can make a perfectly objective judgment of the relative value of those benefits.


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## Steerpike (Nov 26, 2017)

FifthView I’m not sure how much marketing difference there is anymore, given how much present tense I see. I think it does create a slightly different effect from past tense. The part where I think they’re the same, basically interchangeable, is the actual writing of it and what you can do with it. I don’t think that part of it, the writer’s part, is any different from past tense. From the reader’s perspective you’ll create a different sound in the “ear” of the reader.


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## Chessie2 (Nov 26, 2017)

Steerpike said:


> Yes, it is becoming more common in adult fiction. There is tons of YA written this way, and not because YA authors are uniquely skilled and able to pull it off, but because in terms of writing skill there’s really no difference in writing present tense versus past tense.


There's a big difference between past and present. Present is more immediate and part of what annoys me about it. Like as if someone just grabbed my arm and said that we had to go now somewhere now! Now! Now!

Nuh uh. 

Past is more storylike, settling into the tale and world. It's less immediate and invasive. Huge difference (for me anyway).


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## Heliotrope (Nov 26, 2017)

I don't think it is interchangeable. I think it is a literary device that is very useful, almost as a symbol, in certain circumstances.

It is not a new thing. Dickens wrote Bleak House almost all in present, James Joyce wrote Ulysses  all in present tense.

But here my thoughts:

Present tense is a lot more cinematic (obviously it is what is used in screen writing). It is less like telling a story and more like watching a movie, which I think is why YA and middle grads prefer it. It is a format that is familiar to them, growing up from infancy surrounded by film and television. Hunger Games  was the most popular story written in present and since then the format has taken off.

This was why it was used in All Quite on the Western Front... to sort of put the reader "closer to the action" as it were.

As far as adult fiction, I have mostly seen it used as a literary tool to aid in highlighting passing of time.

The Time Traveller's Wife was written in present and past tense to show the "now" and the "then". Sort of this idea that "The angel of the future walks backwards." The narrator is able to talk about the past in past tense because she knows exactly what happened. But the "right now" moments of the book are happening "right now"... she doesn't know any more than the reader does, so it must be written in present tense. 

Margaret Atwood does the same in many of her books to do the same thing, when narrative flip flops back and before between "now" and "back then".

Fight Club does the same thing, but that is more to focus on the MC's state of mind. In present tense the reader is only aware of what the character is aware of. You are both experiencing the story at the same time. This helps to highlight the MC as a sort of unreliable narrator. He is unaware of even his own self in the novel, so this format fits the bill perfectly.

This is why I'm saying that you need the right format and story structure in order for it be done well. If it makes sense within the framework of the story (like highlighting time changes, giving the reader a more _POV_ experience, or you have an unreliable narrator) then go for it! If not then it feels a bit like a clunky literary device with no real purpose.


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## Steerpike (Nov 26, 2017)

Chessie2 said:


> There's a big difference between past and present. Present is more immediate and part of what annoys me about it. Like as if someone just grabbed my arm and said that we had to go now somewhere now! Now! Now!
> 
> Nuh uh.
> 
> Past is more storylike, settling into the tale and world. It's less immediate and invasive. Huge difference (for me anyway).



We read it differently, which is cool of course. I believe people can like or dislike the art they want without having to provide reasons for it. They’re so similar to me that apart from the immediate noting of tense, I quickly forget that I’m reading present v. past. It just fades into the background for me as a reader. Which may make it seem odd to choose it, but as a writer sometimes I do choose it just because when I start writing it sort of comes out that way as opposed to past.


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## Steerpike (Nov 26, 2017)

Heliotrope why do you need any more reason for it than for past? I think it is just what is a familiar. If the vast majority of works for the last 100 years were in present people would likely feel similarly with respect to past. You look at the bulk of present tense books, at least in my experience, and the story structure/format is conventional, such that they could just as easily have been written in past without losing anything.


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## TheCrystallineEntity (Nov 26, 2017)

One of the reasons why I decided to start writing in present tense is because it occurred to me that while in the past tense, it's obvious that the heroes succeed, because otherwise there would be no one to narrate the story. I know. I have weird logic.


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## Steerpike (Nov 26, 2017)

TheCrystallineEntity said:


> One of the reasons why I decided to start writing in present tense is because it occurred to me that while in the past tense, it's obvious that the heroes succeed, because otherwise there would be no one to narrate the story. I know. I have weird logic.



Except that there are past tense, and even first person stories where the character dies with no ability to ever have narrated the story. Because of that, I never assume that a work of fiction is being actively narrated by one of the characters unless the author explicitly sets it up that way.


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## TheCrystallineEntity (Nov 26, 2017)

That's true, I guess.


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## Steerpike (Nov 26, 2017)

TheCrystallineEntity said:


> That's true, I guess.



There was a discussion on another forum about this, and I guess it bugs some readers. I think Philippe Gregory had a novel where we stay in the viewpoint character’s POV right up to the very instant of death, so there is no possibility they ever narrate. Someone raised the question of how the story could be told, and my response is that it is a work of fiction/art and there was no indication that this character or any other was ever meant to be seen as narrating the story.

Some books do have an explicit narrator of course. Sometimes they aren’t proper characters in the story, such as in Brust’s Dragaeran histories.


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## Heliotrope (Nov 26, 2017)

Steerpike said:


> Heliotrope why do you need any more reason for it than for past? I think it is just what is a familiar. If the vast majority of works for the last 100 years were in present people would likely feel similarly with respect to past. You look at the bulk of present tense books, at least in my experience, and the story structure/format is conventional, such that they could just as easily have been written in past without losing anything.



I think is this true, especially for MG and YA, and I think it has a lot to do with how that generation tells stories. 

I notice with older generation people, if you sit down to have some wine and they want to tell you a story about what happened at the golf course on Thursday they start with: 

"So I _was_ at the golf course with my old friend John, the one who works at the mill... You remember John?" 

However, when I taught Middle School a few years ago I distinctly noticed that they tell stories in present tense. 

"Mrs. B, can I tell you what happened at soccer last night?" 

"Yes please!" 

"Oh, so I'm on the soccer field and this guy, like, at top speed, comes at me...." 

It is the oddest thing. I don't think it has to do with them reading more present tense books. I think it just has to do with the culture of media in general they have grown up in.


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## FifthView (Nov 26, 2017)

Heliotrope You know you and I tend to see things quite similarly or at least from the same ballpark angle, heh. I do attempt to weigh decisions based on what I think I might gain with either approach. That's my tendency.

I think some of this really does depend on how readers have been trained to experience things. I mean that the experience of past/distance vs present/nearness is probably a learned thing. Maybe it was learned from childhood and is inherent in our experience of language, or maybe it's also inherent in the very nature of past tense and present tense. Der, one's past, the other's present.

For the longest time, I've thought it weird that reading a past tense narrative can make me feel as if I'm present there and as if the things being said there are happening _now_. Same with first person narrators using past tense but giving me the impression that they aren't speaking of past events but are rather relaying present events. Only just now, I've been wondering whether that's some of the charm or magic of prose fiction. It's odd, but it works.

Anyway....I have to ask. If those books you mentioned had been written in past tense, would anyone have noticed?  Heh.  Would someone say, "Whoa, wasn't this supposed to have been in present? This is _destroyed_ because it wasn't written in the present tense that it deserved."

There was a recent thread about flashbacks, whether to use present or past for them, and I rather liked the present tense version. For the reasons you gave. I do think there are benefits, particular uses, and that these uses have some effect. I'm going to continue to think that one approach might accomplish something the other approach might not, or accomplish it _more strongly_.  Or whatever. I'm not sure however whether this is simply a matter of history, my own and the general history of literature, or something inherent to the tense.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Nov 26, 2017)

I've used both, though my current WIP is in past. After a while of writing in present, I decided it just felt a little awkward and off. Past tense feels more comfortable and natural. 

The main thing i've noticed is that when you write in present tense, good luck switching back to past. I have about a year's worth of material from my transition back to writing in past tense and for the most part, I switch tenses a couple times in every paragraph, without noticing. If i'm in past and i go into a section of dialogue in which the characters talk in present, I go back to present until two lines later when I switch again for no apparent reason. The habit took forever to squash. I was rereading a draft from about a year ago and it was dotted with random lapses into present tense.  I finally kicked the habit by writing my current WIP in past, but still!


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## skip.knox (Nov 26, 2017)

I go by experience. Out of all the books I have read and liked, only a tiny percentage have been written in the present tense. Of all the books I have read and not finished, a significant percentage were written in the present tense. So, when I pick up a book and it's written in present tense, my hackles go up. The writer is going to have to make an even better impression on me, even more quickly, than in any other case.

I agree that writing in the present tense is more difficult. To give one example, try to imagine Game of Thrones, or War and Peace, or any epic story with multiple points of view, in all present tense. 

To reply to the OP, though, all I can say is, you have to write the story the way that makes sense to you. It might be that you feel a strong urge to tell the story in a certain way, but it can also be that you just want to experiment. Both are fine. As long as it's only an idea, you're going to get every answer imaginable. Only after you've written the thing will you get feedback that is useful.


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## Heliotrope (Nov 26, 2017)

FifthView said:


> I think some of this really does depend on how readers have been trained to experience things. I mean that the experience of past/distance vs present/nearness is probably a learned thing. Maybe it was learned from childhood and is inherent in our experience of language, or maybe it's also inherent in the very nature of past tense and present tense. Der, one's past, the other's present.



Yes, I think this too. I think this is why MG and YA are so much more open to present tense narrative. Part of whatever their experience was had led them to be more accepting of it. Whatever that is, I have no clue, lol.



FifthView said:


> Anyway....I have to ask. If those books you mentioned had been written in past tense, would anyone have noticed? Heh. Would someone say, "Whoa, wasn't this supposed to have been in present? This is _destroyed_ because it wasn't written in the present tense that it deserved."



I don't think so, and that is what I'm trying to say. Tense is a literary tool. It can be used in clever ways to get a point across, but it doesn't make or break a piece, IMO. Atwood had another book called The Edible Woman. It was about a woman who went crazy. It started in first person, then a third of the way through switched to third person, then by the end, when she had "found herself" again it switched back to first. It was a clever tool used to show how the woman felt distance from her own self. Would it have made or broke the novel if it had all bee in third or first? Perhaps not. But it certainly accelerated it above and beyond. It became obvious that Attwood was a master storyteller with all the tools in her toolbox. 



FifthView said:


> There was a recent thread about flashbacks, whether to use present or past for them, and I rather liked the present tense version.



I agree. I liked it too.. It separated the bit from the narrative proper in a fun and engaging way.



FifthView said:


> I'm going to continue to think that one approach might accomplish something the other approach might not, or accomplish it _more strongly_.



Yes. This is my point. Each approach does different things. They are useful in their own ways.


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## Steerpike (Nov 26, 2017)

skip.knox said:


> I agree that writing in the present tense is more difficult. To give one example, try to imagine Game of Thrones, or War and Peace, or any epic story with multiple points of view, in all present tense.



Why? I’m thinking of those examples, and thinking ok, you go through and change all of the sentences to present tense but leave them otherwise the same. What’s difficult about that? Why would it be any less effective in terms of the final product?


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## TheCrystallineEntity (Nov 26, 2017)

^Maybe it would feel less like an epic tale from long ago or a distant land?


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## FifthView (Nov 26, 2017)

Heliotrope said:


> Yes. This is my point. Each approach does different things. They are useful in their own ways.



I wonder if they are more useful when I have a reader whose experience is more like mine, heh. But this would be a frightening possibility. Y'know, "All I ever learned is becoming more irrelevant as I age."  But see there, I'm not even sure I can modify "irrelevant" that way. I'm assuming you'll know what I meant by it.


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## Steerpike (Nov 26, 2017)

TheCrystallineEntity said:


> ^Maybe it would feel less like an epic tale from long ago or a distant land?



Maybe. But I’m not sure it would, at least to me. I guess I’m trying to pin down the “why” of some of the statements about how it affects the work. I don’t see it, yet, but maybe they’re right. But the argument are generally just conclusive statements, so I’m wondering if people can dig down into why, from a technical perspective, readability, or whatever, they think the results would be one way as opposed to another. It’s interesting to me probably largely because my own reading experience is not along these lines.


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## Devora (Nov 26, 2017)

I find from the story I'm writing that writing with a subdued voice works best for present tense. The story in question is more of a Cyberpunk noir so i found the third-person present tense is working best for it.

I guess with most fantasy it tends to be a more grandiose approach with the voice, like (as others have said) reading a story of old. To pull away from being told as if it were a legend takes away some of the feel since it's almost expected of the genre.

But I may be repeating what has already been said.


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## Peat (Nov 26, 2017)

As for why I hate it so much... I'm honestly not sure. It may just be one of those irrational things.

If I had to guess, I'd say its because I'm something of a scan reader. Sometimes, odd things in a text will only come to my full attention about 5-10 seconds after I've read it. Because present tense is odd to me, it means there's little alarm bells going off in my brain non-stop until I realise why. By which point I'm quite vexed anyway.

But I could be wrong. Its not like I read all that much of it. 

That said... other than some people just find it natural, I never quite get what the advantage of it is. It doesn't feel immediate to me, that's for sure.



TheCrystallineEntity said:


> <People who write fiction in present tense should receive 20 year custodial sentences with no right to parole.>
> Don't read any of my books, then. It's first person and third person present tense in almost all of them.
> It sounds more natural to me than past tense, and I know how weird that is, but I'm essentially a weird being, through and through.
> Also, please don't arrest me.



Fortunately, nobody has been insane enough to give me any sort of legal powers. Besides, even if anyone did, there'd be no space for you in jail after I locked up everyone guilty of poor tube etiquette.


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## TheCrystallineEntity (Nov 26, 2017)

^Fair enough.


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## Chessie2 (Nov 26, 2017)

Steerpike said:


> We read it differently, which is cool of course. I believe people can like or dislike the art they want without having to provide reasons for it. They’re so similar to me that apart from the immediate noting of tense, I quickly forget that I’m reading present v. past. It just fades into the background for me as a reader. Which may make it seem odd to choose it, but as a writer sometimes I do choose it just because when I start writing it sort of comes out that way as opposed to past.


Truth be told, I wish this was the case for me. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of good reads out there I'm missing out on because the tense just doesn't work for me. What a shame. Then again, a lot of things don't work for me. But I'm somewhat of a weird reader. I didn't like Outlander (I couldn't even get past chapter 1 and let's not even mention the whole aspect of forced adultery in the book) + most books that are esteemed as literary masterpieces are not to my liking. In general, I prefer to be entertained by the books I read. If I want to learn, then I'll pick up a science magazine. SO...tying this into the OP, present tense doesn't allow me to feel entertained. It feels like work. There it is.


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## Demesnedenoir (Nov 26, 2017)

Steerpike said:


> What I mean is that the dislike doesn’t appear to be the product of rational analysis, but more of a gut reaction to something out of the ordinary. People are entitled to like or dislike what they want, I’m just distinguishing it from a quantified, reasoned analysis. There really isn’t much apart from familiarity to distinguish it from past tense. You can write any past tense passage in present tense and to me it works the same. People say present tense provides a certain immediacy but I never feel that when reading it.



Mmm, I would suggest there is a (potentially) rational dislike for the present tense. When you start telling a story as if it is happening, it goes against reality and logic of story, unless it is a transcription of say... The dialogue of Seal Team 6, a coroner, etc. It can be an effective story-telling device, but without a logical premise for how a story is narrated in present, it comes off hokey or gimmicky to me.


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## Steerpike (Nov 26, 2017)

Demesnedenoir said:


> Mmm, I would suggest there is a (potentially) rational dislike for the present tense. When you start telling a story as if it is happening, it goes against reality and logic of story, unless it is a transcription of say... The dialogue of Seal Team 6, a coroner, etc. It can be an effective story-telling device, but without a logical premise for how a story is narrated in present, it comes off hokey or gimmicky to me.



I can see that, for people who interpret a story as being narrated by one of the characters. I never read a story that way unless the author makes it explicit that this is what is going on, and in that case a present tense story might seem a bit more odd. I know from other discussions that a lot of readers do read stories as though they’re narrations of past recollections of the characters.


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## Devora (Nov 26, 2017)

Demesnedenoir said:


> Mmm, I would suggest there is a (potentially) rational dislike for the present tense. When you start telling a story as if it is happening, it goes against reality and logic of story, unless it is a transcription of say... The dialogue of Seal Team 6, a coroner, etc. It can be an effective story-telling device, but without a logical premise for how a story is narrated in present, it comes off hokey or gimmicky to me.



I agree. Once you use First-Person Present Tense, you're asking for trouble. It comes off like reading a bad fanfic.


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## skip.knox (Nov 26, 2017)

Steerpike said:


> Why? I’m thinking of those examples, and thinking ok, you go through and change all of the sentences to present tense but leave them otherwise the same. What’s difficult about that? Why would it be any less effective in terms of the final product?


For one thing, Character A's present is not Character B's present. The author would have to be more explicit, even heavy-handed, in order to keep clear the sequence of events. A straight translation at the sentence level would quickly break down.


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## Steerpike (Nov 26, 2017)

skip.knox said:


> For one thing, Character A's present is not Character B's present. The author would have to be more explicit, even heavy-handed, in order to keep clear the sequence of events. A straight translation at the sentence level would quickly break down.



It's true that both "presents" are not the same, but I'm not sure that matters. Scene breaks are commonly also breaks or gaps in time. The next scene may be contemporaneous, prior, or after the previous scene within the chronology of the story. I'm not sure a scene being in present tense changes any of that, at least if I'm understanding what you mean correctly.


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## Svrtnsse (Nov 26, 2017)

skip.knox said:


> Character A's present is not Character B's present.


Yeah, it's really annoying when I have a birthday party and all my characters bring the same presents.


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## skip.knox (Nov 27, 2017)

Svrtnsse said:


> Yeah, it's really annoying when I have a birthday party and all my characters bring the same presents.



Oh, Svrtnsse, that's all in the past now.


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## Penpilot (Nov 27, 2017)

I really didn't notice whether stories were written in present tense or past until I started to study writing and take writing more seriously. Now, I find I have to kind of switch gears and adjust. It usually feels weird for the first bit. Otherwise, present or past, it doesn't matter all that much to me.

As for writing, IMHO, if you're kind of new to writing, I'd say stay away from present tense until you're able to comfortably write stories in past. When I started writing waaaay back when, one of the biggest mistakes I made was misinterpreting the tip to write active prose vs passive prose as meaning to write in present tense.

Any way, when I did that, it seemed like it made my writing better because of the immediacy it gave the prose. It made things read so much faster. But I found for me, it just a superficial improvement that masked other issues I had. In addition, I found as a writer, being so mentally in the present made it feel unnatural to have my characters delve in to introspection and have their thoughts wander beyond what was in front of them. IMHO introspection is important in writing.

Now this isn't to say it can't be done and feel natural. It's just that at that point in time, I didn't have enough control of over writing to use it effectively, so my stories turned out unclear and superficial. But once I dropped the present tense, my stories got better.


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## Michael K. Eidson (Nov 28, 2017)

Demesnedenoir said:


> Mmm, I would suggest there is a (potentially) rational dislike for the present tense. When you start telling a story as if it is happening, it goes against reality and logic of story, unless it is a transcription of say... The dialogue of Seal Team 6, a coroner, etc. It can be an effective story-telling device, but without a logical premise for how a story is narrated in present, it comes off hokey or gimmicky to me.



Personally, I can easily enjoy reading well-written present tense prose. I know readers who can't or won't. One such reader told me the same thing as Demesnedenoir said, that it's illogical for a story to be narrated in present tense. The present tense for them disrupts their suspension of disbelief. I understand the sentiment, even if I don't adhere to it myself. Because my target audience consists of people like this, however, I often choose not to write in present tense. I had an idea for a story written as a transcription of a present tense narration, and wrote the first few scenes of it, but as was said, present tense _transcription_ can make sense. I may finish the story, after I finish with my current main project.


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