# Stock Fantasy Races



## Ankari (Apr 22, 2012)

I discussed the use of stock fantasy races with a buddy of mine in my world.  Before I ask the question, I want to let you know that I have five unique races already created.  I am using three (four if you count dragons) stock fantasy races as well.  One of the races is the human, the other is the Elf.  The last one is the Half-Elf (which I call Garans).  So the question is: Does the use of stock fantasy races crush reader's interest in a book?

Thanks for your feedback.


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## Ailith (Apr 22, 2012)

I don’t think using “stock” races would diminish readers’ interested just by being included - it depends on how you use them. 

One thing that sometimes bugs me is when writers take a stock race and try to overly redefine it, instead of just creating a new one. (like elves that are burly and binge drink). Clearly, you wouldn’t want your elves to be exactly the same as Tolkien’s, but they should still be elf-like. (maybe that’s just my personal opinion...)

I’d be interested to hear about the new races you came up with. I’m working on a race of my own for my WIP, and it’s proving to be harder than I anticipated!


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## ThinkerX (Apr 22, 2012)

> So the question is: Does the use of stock fantasy races crush reader's interest in a book?



That would depend on just how the races are depicted, and in particular how the characters are depicted.  If done well enough, even stock races in stock settings can be most intriguing.

I would issue a word of caution, though, unless you have multiple stories or a multiple book series in mind - it will be difficult, story wise, to do justice to four stock races plus five unique races.  Real easy for the reader to get confused.  This used to be an issue with the old TSR novels and related works - there would be so many differing races and monsters introduced it was often difficult to keep tabs of them all, and in the case of the 'Humaniods' (goblins, orcs, kobolds, bugbears, gnolls, ect) nothing to really distinguish them from one another.

Might be best to focus your attention on (members of) no more than three or four races, with the occasional mention of the others ('well, a bird-person could have done X - but there's none of them around these parts' type deal).


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## Queshire (Apr 22, 2012)

I'm curious about the half-elves, what makes them their own race instead of just a combination of human and elf? What links them to, and distinguishes them from, regular humans and elves?


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## Ankari (Apr 22, 2012)

Queshire said:


> I'm curious about the half-elves, what makes them their own race instead of just a combination of human and elf? What links them to, and distinguishes them from, regular humans and elves?



Well, they have their own identity (us versus them).  If that isn't enought they are shunned by the Elfen (my version of the plural of Elf) as they represent a shame brought upon them in their history.  They have their own nation (I know that isn't enough in itself), and they have their own culture.  Their features are a hybrid of both races (obviously).

I had their history online but its now offline as I may be revising it.


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## Steerpike (Apr 22, 2012)

If you look at the number of Fantasy books on the bookstore shelves, using stock races and even presented in stock or traditional ways, I'd say the answer is "no," it doesn't crush a reader's interest. Fantasy books with those stock races do quite well.


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## Leif GS Notae (Apr 22, 2012)

Go with it, give us your view on them and their place in your world. I know many authors, writers, hobby writers, gamers, etc. using varying races to give flavor to their worlds.

Just remember, many times a writer wants to use a different race is to point out racism and its relation to the real world. Sure, it isn't EVERY writer, but it is a good standard trope.


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## Queshire (Apr 22, 2012)

I often find different races being the same as different cultures, I'm not sure if it's good or bad, but it's certainly interesting...


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## Penpilot (Apr 22, 2012)

"Stock" races wouldn't turn me off from book, not in the least. If it's an Elf that you want then use it. In some ways it's better than making a "new" race and calling them Smelfs. You know what I mean? Using known races comes with positive and negative baggage. When you mention Elf, there are few people who wouldn't know what you're talking about. It's very accessible, but that comes with some expectations as to what the race's general make up is, so you'll be working against those general expectations if you change the race in significant ways. As in a lot of instances, write it well and nobody will care if you used a "stock" race.


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## Benjamin Clayborne (Apr 23, 2012)

Ankari said:


> So the question is: Does the use of stock fantasy races crush reader's interest in a book?



Automatically? No. If it's well-written, people will enjoy it regardless of what races are in it (except for people who have prejudices against seeing any stock races at all, but you can't please anyone).

In general, probably what you're really asking is: Assuming my work is otherwise not crap, will having stock races in my work turn off a significant number of readers? I believe the answer is no.


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## Ankari (Apr 23, 2012)

Benjamin Clayborne said:


> In general, probably what you're really asking is: Assuming my work is otherwise not crap, will having stock races in my work turn off a significant number of readers? I believe the answer is no.



That made me chuckle.  Well, now I have to work on the "Make my work not crappy" part of the equation!


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## shangrila (Apr 23, 2012)

Stock races on their own aren't enough to turn readers off (or shouldn't, anyway), but it does depend how you use them. You will have to conform somewhat to the typical ideas of each race (dwarves are short, machinists, elves are tall, graceful, etc) but you can play around with them a little as well (Elves in the Witcher series are little more than environmental terrorists, for example).


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## Amanita (Apr 23, 2012)

Going against the majority opinion here: Yes, stock fantasy races with stock ways of behaviour and stock conflicts between them do turn me off. 
Books with Orcs that aren't Lord of the Rings are out for me and those with "typical" Elves who are either better humans or evil because they're "dark" elves as well. I don't mind books using legends about such being in an interesting way but I dislike those that just copy something others have done "because fantasy has to have this." 
You don't have to write your story for the minority group including me however and maybe you do intent to use "stock" races in an interesting way.


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## Queshire (Apr 23, 2012)

Personally, I would like to see races from other mythologies then just Norse represented....


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## Devor (Apr 23, 2012)

Ankari said:


> So the question is: Does the use of stock fantasy races crush reader's interest in a book?



As others have said, books which make use of those races can do very well, even if it turns off a few people.

If you really want to answer the question, you have to talk about your _target market_.  Are there similarities between the people who like, don't like, or are indifferent to those races?  Yes.  Does the rest of your book appeal to one of those three groups more than the others?  Quite possibly, and that would be your answer.

I've said elsewhere, there's one big advantage to using stock races.  They take less "work" and time and investment to introduce to your readers.  Many readers will accept them more easily, letting you focus more energy on the unique features of your world.  On top of this, if you list five races, and two of them are elves and dwarves, it offers the reader a baseline for accepting the other three.

Finally, using any race should be about wanting the distinct differences which result from the _fantasy_ elements of that race.  Elves live friggin' forever, and dwarves live underground.  What are the personalities and societies which would develop from those characteristics?  Are the unique races you're creating going to follow through on a society built around a different fantasy element?  What do these races do for the story I want to tell?

These are the things I think you should be considering.  Races aren't poor just because they've been used elsewhere - there's little that hasn't been used before, and I see people compare "new" races to old existing ones all the time.  The question is what does using these things do for your story.  And the answer is very mixed.


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## Shockley (Apr 23, 2012)

I don't have a problem with it.

 And if someone wants to say that you're ripping off another work, well, that's easy to handle by pointing out that Tolkien was ripping off myth too. Lewis, who gave Tolkien an awful time for using elves (the fact that we can attribute the quote 'Not another ****ing elf.' to C. S. Lewis makes me very happy), still ended up using dwarves. Both of these creations came from Nordic, Anglo-Saxon and Germanic myths, and rough equivalences of all the races can be found in the stories of all of the various Proto Indo-European people. 

 If you're ripping off anyone, you're ripping off entire cultures - and that's the core of writing.


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## Ankari (Apr 23, 2012)

So it appears that the general consensus is that its not a draw back to use stock races, just make the story unique.  This is something that I intend to do.  As I said, the story of the Elf and Half Elf (Garans) are unique.  I have to work on the Dwarves, though.  I appreciate everyone's feedback.


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## Steerpike (Apr 23, 2012)

Ankari said:


> So it appears that the general consensus is that its not a draw back to use stock races, just make the story unique.  This is something that I intend to do.  As I said, the story of the Elf and Half Elf (Garans) are unique.  I have to work on the Dwarves, though.  I appreciate everyone's feedback.



You don't even have to make the unique if you write an excellent story. Just look at all the fantasy on the shelves with very standard dwarves, elves, orc, etc.


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## undertheshepherd7 (Apr 23, 2012)

It really depends on who's reading your writing!  Personally, I look for these kinds of races in fantasy.  Yeah, they may be generic, but they are the races I'm familiar with and what I just like to see!  I'd have to agree with Ailith that you should maybe follow these "guidelines" with these stock races or else you're really just inventing a new one.  Some fantasy readers prefer to see something completely new and original.  I say, do what you'd like.  If someone else doesn't enjoy your elves, dragons, or dwarves. . . oh well.


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## Shockley (Apr 23, 2012)

Now if you're going to do a whole lot of modification on what it means to be a dwarf or an elf, I don't understand why you wouldn't create a new name for them.


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## Mindfire (Apr 23, 2012)

Shockley said:


> (the fact that we can attribute the quote 'Not another ****ing elf.' to C. S. Lewis makes me very happy)



Actually, it wasn't Lewis. It was another fellow, _Hugo Dyson_, a fellow member of the Inklings who was at a meeting with Lewis and others where Tolkien was doing a reading from his work. The quote appears in CS Lewis's biography, but was not spoken by the man himself.


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## Shockley (Apr 23, 2012)

I've heard Dyson quoted as doing the rolling part, but I've always heard the other quote (expletive and all) attributed to Lewis. I'll have to delve further into this.


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## Nameback (Jun 9, 2013)

While I can understand some readers or authors who would prefer fantasy races that aren't stock, I think it's silly to consider "stock" races less worthy or less interesting. 

Think about it this way: no sci-fi author would ask, "are readers going to lose interest in my book if I use faster-than-light travel? I mean, FTL has just been done so many times--it's such a 'stock' sci-fi trope." And certainly no literary author would ask if they shouldn't write about human beings, because so many books have already been written about them.

Elves, or orcs, or dwarves, or dragons are no more inherently limited than human beings or original races. Any character can be multi-dimensional, interesting, and truthful--whether human, elf, orc, or otherwise.


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## Feo Takahari (Jun 10, 2013)

Nameback said:


> While I can understand some readers or authors who would prefer fantasy races that aren't stock, I think it's silly to consider "stock" races less worthy or less interesting.
> 
> Think about it this way: no sci-fi author would ask, "are readers going to lose interest in my book if I use faster-than-light travel? I mean, FTL has just been done so many times--it's such a 'stock' sci-fi trope." And certainly no literary author would ask if they shouldn't write about human beings, because so many books have already been written about them.
> 
> Elves, or orcs, or dwarves, or dragons are no more inherently limited than human beings or original races. Any character can be multi-dimensional, interesting, and truthful--whether human, elf, orc, or otherwise.



I guess what bugs me so much about these races is that characters' membership in these races so often gets in the way of their being multi-dimensional. Or, as _The Order of the Stick_ summed it up:



> Cleric: Does he have any distinguishing features?
> Haley: Well...he's short.
> Celia: He has a beard.
> Haley: He wears heavy armor.
> ...



Mind you, Durkon's forgivable, insofar as he has a personality beyond "dwarfey." But a lot of dwarves never get beyond the axe and the Scottish accent, and that means there are fewer things you can do with them. If you're sufficiently lazy, the same can apply with elves, orcs, dragons, goblins, etc. (Of course, you could argue this is a symptom rather than a disease--in theory, there's nothing stopping you from making your half-human half-scorpions or your three-headed fishmen all pretty much the same--but I've noticed that authors who put in the effort to make a new species, provided they're not using that species solely for cannon fodder, tend to at least have _one_ member of that species who has a full personality.)


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## Devor (Jun 10, 2013)

Feo Takahari said:


> Mind you, Durkon's forgivable, insofar as he has a personality beyond "dwarfey."



Does he?  I love Durkan, but I'm up to date with OOTS, and he is pretty much just a dwarf cleric.


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## Feo Takahari (Jun 10, 2013)

Devor said:


> Does he?  I love Durkan, but I'm up to date with OOTS, and he is pretty much just a dwarf cleric.



At the point when I stopped reading, he had a sort of interesting conflict between his lawful inclinations and his devotion to a god who wasn't always lawful. I also liked the bit where he finds out he'll return home "posthumously" and is actually happy he'll get an honorable burial. He wasn't an especially interesting character, but he at least had more to him than most dwarves. (I'm easier to please than I sometimes come off--you just need to give me a little to latch onto.)

(Apparently he's a vampire now or something? I don't really care about OOTS at this point.)


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## wilderb33st (Jun 11, 2013)

I would not say that "stock races" would crush a readers interest. I, personally, have used quite a lot in my world, however I have also created a fair amount of my own races!


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## Varamyrr (Jun 13, 2013)

If you feel comfortable using 'stock' fantasy races, then by all means use them. It's your story after all! I'd just give them a little twist.


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