# Rune magic



## Chessie (Oct 24, 2013)

Hi everyone, so part of the magic system I've created for my WIP includes runes. There are only a handful of them that can be used to power certain objects for magical use. They are tiny animal symbols and the source of their power are the auroras. The light is harvested into these runes when the lights are out in full force, and certain colors have specific powers, etc. These runes must be carved on the objects by Shamans as it is a specialized skill in my world.

But my concern is that this type of magic has been done to death in fantasy. I'm not sure if its original or creative enough. I would love some ideas thrown out that I could play with to add more of a twist in. Thank you!


----------



## skip.knox (Oct 24, 2013)

How about different kinds of light? Sunlight does one thing, moonlight another, starlight a third (no moon). For more fun, add firelight or magically-generated light.


----------



## Addison (Oct 25, 2013)

It's your story, you're a voice no one has heard or read, you're already original so don't worry about that. I actually have never read a story with that kind of magic and it sounds cool.


----------



## Kn'Trac (Oct 25, 2013)

> They are tiny animal symbols and the source of their power are the auroras. The light is harvested into these runes when the lights are out in full force, and certain colors have specific powers, etc. These runes must be carved on the objects by Shamans as it is a specialized skill in my world.



I wouldn't worry too much about not being original. I've read my fair share of fantasy works and this is the first time I see the aurora's involved in the empowerment of runes. And as Addison said, it's your story anyway. 

Go ahaid with it, I like the idea, it's fresh.


----------



## Queshire (Oct 25, 2013)

I love the idea of rune magic, but I rarely see it done right or given the attention it deserves. It seems to me that people just throw around the word rune for any form of written or engraved magic without giving it much thought. Of course, as a corollary to that, if it is done right then it's quite refreshing. Personally between the animal shapes and the shaman stuff and all that I think you might be better off going with calling it totems. Runes to my mind suggest a more scholar-y approach to magic while what you're describing sounds more along the lines of nature magic.

Hmmm.... let's see, what else? If you're worried about not being creative enough then I would suggest looking back to the original source of runes, Norse Mythology, and drawing inspiration from there. I don't know the specifics, but I believe the tale goes something like Odin first discovered runes after sacrificing himself to himself by nailing himself to the tree Yggdrassil for nine days on his spear Grungir. Just glimpsing at that there's several elements you can take inspiration from. Sacrificing himself to himself? That's some crazy cosmic hacking right there. Or there's just the idea of sacrifice on it's own. You could try to implement something to do with spears, or special trees.... There's all sorts of possibilities there.

That said though, I'm a lazy bastard so I'd just keep it the same and change them to totems rather than try to re-imagine the whole thing.


----------



## Chessie (Oct 25, 2013)

Totems are large carvings--wooden statues if you can call them such. These inscriptions are much smaller and carved into items. But thank you for the suggestion.  

So true this is my story and I'll tell it in my own way. Thanks for the reminders! And Skip.knox, I like the starlight idea, going to play around with that. Thanks!


----------



## ascanius (Oct 25, 2013)

I have a rune/ward system that is part of the overall magic system.  its not quit a true rune system though due to the way my magic system works.  do the effects of different light affect a single tune differently? 
you could have different sources of  change the effects of runes in different ways, or maybe the color is what is important, maybe both.  what about stringing different runes together like a sentence or maybe a single hybrid rune, maybe that hybrid is then added to a rune sentence.


----------



## Chessie (Oct 25, 2013)

Hmm, I hadn't thought of perhaps putting them in a sentence or hybrid. Interesting. Hybrid seems like it would match what I've got going on. The runes (carvings in the story) harvest the lights of the auroras for magical use. Each color has the ability to summon different types of ancestral spirits and powers.

EDIT: After a bit more research, I think magical staves is more what I'm going for. Runes are different...so I guess it helps to know that!


----------



## shangrila (Oct 26, 2013)

Honestly, I haven't seen this type of magic done very often. Sanderson does it in Elantris, kind of, but I wouldn't worry about it being done to death or anything.


----------



## teacup (Oct 26, 2013)

I've not exactly read too many fantasy books, but still, I've never actually read one using rune magic.
If you feel it's been done to death, you could maybe put your own twist on it, or play off the fact that it's done a lot.


----------



## Chad Lynch (Oct 26, 2013)

With magic there should always be a how (it works/ is done), a source for the power, and a cost.  The first and the last can sometimes be combined.  Perhaps the light from a burning sacrifice can provide more power than sunlight.  Greater power, but the cost can be terrible.


----------



## skip.knox (Oct 26, 2013)

Just to add another wrinkle, maybe pure starlight's effect could vary based on which constellations were in the sky. Also, the nature of the rune could be different depending on the lighting conditions under which it was carved (and the material, of course).


----------



## Chessie (Oct 26, 2013)

Ah yes! The idea I have is that the carvings are done when the lights are out. Only thing is the auroras come out a handful of times during the winter...so something like starlight would add to the efficiency of the magic system.


----------



## Ankari (Oct 26, 2013)

Chesterama said:


> Hi everyone, so part of the magic system I've created for my WIP includes runes. There are only a handful of them that can be used to power certain objects for magical use. They are tiny animal symbols and the source of their power are the auroras. The light is harvested into these runes when the lights are out in full force, and certain colors have specific powers, etc. These runes must be carved on the objects by Shamans as it is a specialized skill in my world.
> 
> But my concern is that this type of magic has been done to death in fantasy. I'm not sure if its original or creative enough. I would love some ideas thrown out that I could play with to add more of a twist in. Thank you!



Don't worry about an idea being done to death. Every idea has been done to death. For instance, I have rune magic in my world as well.

Just create the mechanics of your magic system, stick to it, and write your story.


----------



## Caged Maiden (Oct 27, 2013)

I think physical tools for magic are absolutely appropriate and cannot be done to death.  For example, cards, tea leaves, runes, sticks, bones... They all have different "feels" to them and so by choosing a particular tool, you are actually conveying a lot already.  The fact that you chose to combine runes with animals (several of the old Norse runes were animals) and light, makes this system unique.  Also... am I understanding correctly?  Are your mages carving little animals?  Or are they using runic symbols for animals?  I wasn't totally clear on exactly what it's like.  

Anyways, the Norse runes could be combined to form sort of compound runes, incorporating several runes into one bigger symbol.  "Rune rigs" still exist, fields in the countryside in England, where they're divided into triangle plots and squares. 

 There are a lot of examples of how runes have been used and recycled, as magic tools for different people, both magical and not (Nazis used runes for the "SS" and the swastika).   I think you can use the word if you like t, but I'd encourage you to come up with some word other than "rune' because I think the magic you're inventing is truly unique and it's perhaps too mundane a word for something so different?


----------



## Chessie (Oct 27, 2013)

Hi Caged Maiden, thank you. Yes, the runes are carvings of mostly animals (symbols of them). For now I'm calling them carvings for simplicity's sake, but I want the name to include the light somehow. I'll look up the ideas you gave.


----------



## Leslie Vingerhoets (Jul 22, 2021)

Chessie said:


> Hi everyone, so part of the magic system I've created for my WIP includes runes. There are only a handful of them that can be used to power certain objects for magical use. They are tiny animal symbols and the source of their power are the auroras. The light is harvested into these runes when the lights are out in full force, and certain colors have specific powers, etc. These runes must be carved on the objects by Shamans as it is a specialized skill in my world.
> 
> But my concern is that this type of magic has been done to death in fantasy. I'm not sure if its original or creative enough. I would love some ideas thrown out that I could play with to add more of a twist in. Thank you!


----------



## Leslie Vingerhoets (Jul 22, 2021)

That sounds very intreaging. Myself, I'm slowly diving into the Roots of RUNE writing, to omit it and teach it to others like you perhaps. Here is an example:


----------



## Leslie Vingerhoets (Jul 22, 2021)

That sounds very intreaging. Myself, I'm slowly diving into the Roots of RUNE writing, to omit it and teach it to others like you perhaps. Here is an example :


----------



## Vaporo (Jul 22, 2021)

The problem I always have with runic magic systems that nobody even bothers to explain their origins. What makes these arbitrary lines and shapes so special? Are they a fundamental part of the universe? If so, we should probably see them appear in nature. Are they an ancient dead language? If so, what makes this particular language magical? How did the language become so thoroughly bound up with the universe that simply writing in it can have an effect.

In one WIP setting that's been rolling around in the back of my mind, I take the "fundamental part of the universe" approach. In that setting, "runes" are crystal-like mathematically definable patterns that appear in nature all the time. New "runes" are discovered on a regular basis by experimentation and mathematical extrapolation.

Unfortunately, since you're specifically using animal symbols I don't think you can take this approach. So, what causes animal symbols to absorb light? Is there a particular spirit that likes the drawings? Did some ancient artist drop his sketch book into an interdimensional portal and unwittingly bind his drawing up with with the very fabric of the universe?

Also, after typing this I just saw how old this thread is. I'm sure OP has figured out what they're going to do by now.


----------



## Queshire (Jul 22, 2021)

Buwahahaha! Rise! Rise from your grave and feast on the flesh of the living! >=D Also, dang, I've been here long enough to post in the first go around of this thread? I feel old. Q_Q

Anyways, even if the thread is old rune magic is cool and we can talk about it.

So in the distant history of my setting it was a precursor level sci fi civilization until an apocalyptic galactic war broke reality enough that magic flooded into the setting. The invisible galactic hypernet all around was twisted into the spirit world over the eons and modern day spirits are descended from the numerous AI inhabiting it. Runes utilized in spirit magic are similarly descended from programming languages and commands the AI's are meant to respond to. Even the most beastial or simple spirits understand it, and while spirits have free will it's harder for them to ignore something in that ancient language.

Runes in arcane magic are more practical. They act as circuitry or perhaps plumbing to shape mana for a certain effect. A fire rune's magic doesn't come from meaning fire. Instead that arrangement produces fire and it became known as a fire rune as a result.

Such runes are rare in nature because something like a dragon can naturally shape its mana into the right configuration when it needs fire instead of pouring mana into a rune and letting the rune shape it.

Finally some are just cosmetic. You're giving a big advantage to your enemies if they can just see what spell your shaping based off of the glowing runes your mana produces as you cast, but it's pretty easy to "hide" it behind a personalized but largely meaningless spell circle.


----------



## Mad Swede (Jul 22, 2021)

The problem with rune magic is that it is a modern concept, a little over 130 years old. 

Nordic runes are a form of alphabet, suitable for carving onto stones or more especially pieces of wood - this is why there are no horizontal strokes, as such strokes would tend to split the wood along the grain when you carve the rune. The earliest examples date from the period 100-200AD, and runes were in use into the mid-1800s in parts of Sweden. As to what they used runes for, mostly it was messages and sometimes memorial inscriptions (as on runestones.)

There's several myths about how runes came to the knowledge of man, and most have Odin as the originator. There's no real evidence to support the idea that runes in themselves had any magical properties or that they were used for divination.  Divination (or lot casting as its often called in Swedish) is about throwing sacrifical chips (which have various marks or symbols on them) to determine the future. Another variation was to use so-called lot twigs to draw lots to tell the future.

Runes may have been used to decorate or inscribe supposedly magical objects, but it wasn't the runes which gave the object its magical power. In that sense, any alphabet or any symbols  would do for the purpose.

(And I'm writing this at my desk, 600m from a large runestone...)


----------



## Samantha Raspe (Jul 22, 2021)

Hello! I think that while runes are used in fantasy literature often, your take is different and original. I think it sounds very intriguing and since it’s so specialized and geared to select wielders it doesn’t come off as overdone.  





Chessie said:


> Hi everyone, so part of the magic system I've created for my WIP includes runes. There are only a handful of them that can be used to power certain objects for magical use. They are tiny animal symbols and the source of their power are the auroras. The light is harvested into these runes when the lights are out in full force, and certain colors have specific powers, etc. These runes must be carved on the objects by Shamans as it is a specialized skill in my world.
> 
> But my concern is that this type of magic has been done to death in fantasy. I'm not sure if its original or creative enough. I would love some ideas thrown out that I could play with to add more of a twist in. Thank you!


----------



## Rosemary Tea (Jul 31, 2021)

Vaporo said:


> The problem I always have with runic magic systems that nobody even bothers to explain their origins. What makes these arbitrary lines and shapes so special? Are they a fundamental part of the universe? If so, we should probably see them appear in nature. Are they an ancient dead language? If so, what makes this particular language magical? How did the language become so thoroughly bound up with the universe that simply writing in it can have an effect.


Any magic hinges on intent. What makes a magical tool magical is the intent it's used with.

All alphabets have some basis in shapes found in nature. Chinese characters, Ogham, and I believe runes as well, were originally based on twig and plant shapes. How the characters came to have the meanings they do is complex, but it ultimately goes back to natural forms.

Even phonetic alphabets, like ours, have a history of being based on natural shapes: for example, M is derived from a character based on a word for water (Phoenician, I believe, though I could be wrong about that) that started with an m sound. But with phonetic writing, the origins of the letter shapes are so obscure that we don't see them. Although we have come full circle with some letters - for example, using "u" as shorthand for "you" in texting.

But that doesn't cover magic. Runes have two uses: simple writing, no more magical than what we're all doing right now, and magic spells. (Even if that's a modern invention, that's still what it is.) The difference is the intent and energy put into it. For a spell, there's more focus, perhaps some magical paraphernalia involved; there's an intent to bring about a certain result.


----------



## Rosemary Tea (Jul 31, 2021)

Mad Swede said:


> The problem with rune magic is that it is a modern concept, a little over 130 years old.


To be fair, most fantasy magic tropes aren't any older.

But I think you have a whole blog article here: fact and fiction about runic magic!

Perhaps especially pertinent since, unlike magic fireballs and many other common fantasy tropes, runic magic is real. Maybe not as ancient as it's made out to be, and not as showy as fantasy magic tends to be, but real nonetheless.


----------



## TheKillerBs (Aug 3, 2021)

Chinese characters are not based on twig patterns at all. Chinese characters are, essentially, following their evolution, highly stylised pictograms


----------



## Rosemary Tea (Aug 3, 2021)

TheKillerBs said:


> Chinese characters are not based on twig patterns at all. Chinese characters are, essentially, following their evolution, highly stylised pictograms


Way, way, way back, twigs were the inspiration. That doesn't mean they aren't also highly stylized pictograms.


----------



## TheKillerBs (Aug 3, 2021)

What does oracle bone script have to do with twigs?


----------



## Rosemary Tea (Aug 3, 2021)

TheKillerBs said:


> What does oracle bone script have to do with twigs?


It's a spin off that's now getting off topic.

Someone said something about runes originating as shapes of natural objects. I followed with, all alphabets originated that way. Twigs were one example.

But in and of itself, that statement doesn't really have anything to do with rune magic.


----------



## Cheong_cool12 (Aug 3, 2021)

Maybe you can make it so that the runes can only be used by a certain person and everyone has a special rune. It can be passed to their children so this makes it so that maybe a certain noble family has a really powerful rune. The rune can also be leveled up by using mana stones and merged with others.


----------

