# Any tips with CreateSpace?



## Zero Angel (Sep 24, 2012)

So I was the type that always wanted to do everything myself. 

When I started getting geared up by the idea of publishing my own book, I started my company, purchased ten ISBNs and the bar code for my first novel, did proper formatting and typesetting, learned all about widows and orphans and justification and soft returns and proper indentation and all that, researched printers, requested quotes and the whole shebang.

Then reality set in and I realized I did not have the $1500-3000 investment for a traditional offset print job, nor the contacts/ability to distribute it myself, so this meant paying for a distributor, etc etc etc.

Anyway, I've finally decided that my life is too busy to do all this myself, so I am going the way of print-on-demand with CreateSpace. 

Anything I should be aware of? Any tips? Have yins gone this route? Advice? Suggestions?

Luckily, I get to be the imprint since I own my own ISBNs already. And I already have it typeset. So that is nice too. 

Specific question: is 6 by 9 cheaper than 5.5 by 8.5? 
-_- I originally had mine typeset for 5.5 by 8.5 and would rather avoid having to re-typeset the whole thing (although I feel like a veteran at it now so this isn't an obstacle so much as a minor delay).


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## Kevin O. McLaughlin (Sep 24, 2012)

On the specific question: no. All their sizes are priced the same.

Only up front cost is $25 for their "extended distribution", if you want it (I did). It puts the book in online bookstores other than Amazon, and allows physical bookstores to order copies if a customer asks for one.

As for suggestions... You already know how to do interior layout, right? You're almost home, at that point. You need a PDF file with fonts embedded for the interior. And you need a cover PDF that's at least 300 dpi. Createspace lets you build and download a cover template that works really well in Photoshop for the cover layout.

Any other questions, ask. I've had a few experiences with Createspace at this point. But the site is pretty good at explaining how to use it.


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## Zero Angel (Sep 24, 2012)

Kevin O. McLaughlin said:


> On the specific question: no. All their sizes are priced the same.
> 
> Only up front cost is $25 for their "extended distribution", if you want it (I did). It puts the book in online bookstores other than Amazon, and allows physical bookstores to order copies if a customer asks for one.
> 
> ...



Thanks! I actually did have a question about the extended distribution option. The "preview" royalties was about $4 less per copy--unless I charge out the wazoo, this would have me earn negative royalties -_-

In fact, this stays negative from $7.99 up until between $13 and $14! (and by $14, I am only making about $0.60 per copy in the expanded distribution). 

I really would like to do the expanded distribution, but I can't afford a negative royalty, and if this forces a price point above $12, I have a hard time justifying it  in fact, even at $8.99, the Amazon royalty would be about $0.03 -_-

I guess my question is how do people afford the expanded distribution if the royalties are so much lower???


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## Zero Angel (Sep 24, 2012)

Found the pricing algorithm -_-

If L is the list price of your book, p is the number of pages of the book, where p >= 110, then you earn

R = 0.8L - 0.012p - 0.85 for your personal CreateSpace eStore,
R = 0.6L - 0.012p - 0.85 for Amazon distribution, and
R = 0.4L - 0.012p - 0.85 for expanded distribution.

For instance, my book is approximately 375 pages: This results in a per page cost of 0.012(375) = $4.50. Coupled with the fixed $0.85 charge, this means that I must pay $5.35 for every book. 

For expanded distribution, this means that my "break even" point is L = 5.35 / 0.4 = $13.375 ($13.38). 

Alternatively, my break-even point for Amazon is L = 5.35 / 0.6 ~ $8.92

Aaand, my break-even point for the CreateSpace eStore is L = 5.35 / 0.8 ~ $6.69

That $5.35 charge is a hefty deterrent. But offset printing would be between $2 and $3, so it's not that much different until you start talking about thousands of copies (when it would have been cheaper to do all the bullcrap of setting up the printer and distributor and whatnot yourself by saving the $2000 charges spent for the luxury of print-on-demand).

So my CreateSpace book will be between $9 and $15 depending on what I ultimately decide to do.

PS There is apparently no difference in price between different "standard" page sizes, so go with the larger 6 by 9 because you will have less pages (saving $0.01 to $0.30 or so--sounds small but that is PER book! It adds up!)


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## Kevin O. McLaughlin (Sep 25, 2012)

Remember also that these are trade paperbacks. Fiction in trade paperback format generally never costs under $11.99 and is usually in the $12.99-$18.99 range.

So setting your price for print at $14.99 is pretty typical. A 375 page book is a pretty decent length book. 

Your retailers will likely discount the book, too. This is a good thing. B&N takes 10% off one of my books, and Amazon takes 20% off on the same book. That sort of thing takes time, but remember: publishing today is all about the long haul, not the quick sale.


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## srcroft (Sep 25, 2012)

Have you considered just copywriting your work and sending your novel to a literary agent? If agents take your book, they carry all the print costs for showing it around etc.


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## Kevin O. McLaughlin (Sep 25, 2012)

Srcroft, it sounds like he's planning to publish his work himself, like many writers are doing today. He really doesn't need a literary agent for that.


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## srcroft (Sep 25, 2012)

No, I get that. Was just curious if he tried getting an agent first.


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## srcroft (Sep 25, 2012)

Also, my fear lately has been that a lot of potentially amazing novelists are getting their work out too soon, losing notoriety, and hurting future attempts at being published. There have been great stories of self publishing too--I won't knock it. I just honestly have concern, that down the road people kill their marketability. For example, posting your book in a forum is auto-self publish and copyrighted, no publisher will take you if they know (just for that book). 

Its also possible that it can be a great proof of success and used as a way to market to a publisher later. Truth is I don't know yet, the eBook / Tactile Book markets are still at war and getting blacklisted is something you can't hide from. Even your pseudonym is attached to your real name for copyright submittal.


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## Zero Angel (Sep 25, 2012)

Kevin O. McLaughlin said:


> Remember also that these are trade paperbacks. Fiction in trade paperback format generally never costs under $11.99 and is usually in the $12.99-$18.99 range.
> 
> So setting your price for print at $14.99 is pretty typical. A 375 page book is a pretty decent length book.
> 
> Your retailers will likely discount the book, too. This is a good thing. B&N takes 10% off one of my books, and Amazon takes 20% off on the same book. That sort of thing takes time, but remember: publishing today is all about the long haul, not the quick sale.



Yes, it will be trade paperback size as well. I am aware of the common $14.95 price tag for trade paperback books, but I'd really love to offer it at $12.95 even though this means removing the distributor option -_-

Them discounting is something I hadn't considered though. Are you able to lower the price in your eStore too or have sales or whatever? Or just when you order your own books and distribute those yourself? When they discount does it cut into your royalties?



srcroft said:


> Have you considered just copywriting your work and sending your novel to a literary agent? If agents take your book, they carry all the print costs for showing it around etc.



Thanks srcroft. I have copyrighted my work and I have queried agents before. It got to the point that I was spending more time trying to get published than writing and I got sick of it. So I released my eBook in July and am now looking into printing. I am following the "simultaneous publishing" model where you basically self-publish and continue trying to acquire traditional publishing backing, but my efforts on the acquiring traditional publishing have somewhat died off recently. Now I am just focused on marketing my book and writing new stories and sequels. 

I am hoping for a "magic bakery" effect by 2014 as written about elsewhere (cannot remember the author of the article, apologies). But where I have, you know, 10-20 stories (shorts, novellas and novels) and each is earning _some_ money on a regular basis. 

I am currently in the final stages of about three novellas and 10-15 short stories (as well as in the midst of the follow-up to my first novel). I will try traditional markets with the short stories and then release them myself if failed. I may also do some collections. Finally, I am in the middle of writing modular math textbooks as well (where you buy the subjects you struggle with and each is self-contained (at least as much as they can be self-contained). 

I'm hoping that I can cut down from three jobs to two by 2014 

My primary goal is three to five major releases a year with one of those being a novel every year.


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## srcroft (Sep 25, 2012)

I actually work for the US / Canadas largest Distributor/Supplier membership organization for promotional products and personalized items. I can check to see if there is someone out there who does books and Ill PM you if I find it. It would be at supplier cost which is way way cheaper.


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## Kevin O. McLaughlin (Sep 25, 2012)

That's really cool, srcroft. I don't know that I'd use it for books (I like the ease of getting my print books into ALL major online retail channels via Createspace or Lightning Source). But I'm thinking short stories done in a printed form might make great promo materials, but would cost me $2.25 each via Createspace. I'd be interested in a cheaper option if one existed!

Oh, about pricing - at least take a peek at Lightning Source. The printing cost per book tends to be a little higher. But they allow you to "short discount" down to as low as 20% retailer discount. So for example, a $4.50 book sold at $11.99 would earn you about $5.09 per sale at a 20% discount. Online retailers will NOT discount your book if you drop their retailer margin that low. You can use LSI to get books out to ALL retailers at 40% discount, however - making that $4.50 cost/$11.99 list book earn you $2.69 from all retailers (same as you'd get from Amazon via Createspace). The down sides? There is a $75 setup fee, instead of the $25 fee for Createspace extended distribution. They charge for future alterations to the book (so get it right the FIRST time you upload it!!!). You must own your own ISBN; no freebie ISBN or cheap $10 option like Createspace offers. And occasionally, Amazon and Ingram (which owns LSI) get in a fight and Amazon lists all LSI books as "out of stock, may take 2-3 weeks to deliver", even though they're POD and drop shipped, generally in a day or so.

But even with the down sides, some people really prefer LSI. (I use Createspace.)


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## Zero Angel (Sep 25, 2012)

Kevin O. McLaughlin said:


> That's really cool, srcroft. I don't know that I'd use it for books (I like the ease of getting my print books into ALL major online retail channels via Createspace or Lightning Source). But I'm thinking short stories done in a printed form might make great promo materials, but would cost me $2.25 each via Createspace. I'd be interested in a cheaper option if one existed!
> 
> Oh, about pricing - at least take a peek at Lightning Source. The printing cost per book tends to be a little higher. But they allow you to "short discount" down to as low as 20% retailer discount. So for example, a $4.50 book sold at $11.99 would earn you about $5.09 per sale at a 20% discount. Online retailers will NOT discount your book if you drop their retailer margin that low. You can use LSI to get books out to ALL retailers at 40% discount, however - making that $4.50 cost/$11.99 list book earn you $2.69 from all retailers (same as you'd get from Amazon via Createspace). The down sides? There is a $75 setup fee, instead of the $25 fee for Createspace extended distribution. They charge for future alterations to the book (so get it right the FIRST time you upload it!!!). You must own your own ISBN; no freebie ISBN or cheap $10 option like Createspace offers. And occasionally, Amazon and Ingram (which owns LSI) get in a fight and Amazon lists all LSI books as "out of stock, may take 2-3 weeks to deliver", even though they're POD and drop shipped, generally in a day or so.
> 
> But even with the down sides, some people really prefer LSI. (I use Createspace.)



Thanks for the heads up! I didn't know that existed. I'll check it out presently.


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## srcroft (Sep 26, 2012)

Zero before you spend money on cover art lemme know--they charge a lot for that service don't they? I can do it for you, but PM and we can talk about it.


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## Zero Angel (Sep 26, 2012)

Hey guys, 

Found the following interesting articles about POD options:

CreateSpace or Lightning Source: Which is the more intelligent choice for self-publishing? | Novel Publicity
In Pursuit of Plan B (Lightning Source, CreateSpace, Amazon availability)

Although some of the info in the second site is more specific, I think it is adaptable. 

My plan is to use Amazon to list my book originally, and then use Lightning Source for the expanded distribution (since this is what CreateSpace does too, I feel removing the middle man is probably the best idea). As far as list prices and all that business the second article goes into, I will mark it at whatever option is affordable, but I am aiming for $12.95 on both services.


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## Mary C. Moore (Sep 27, 2012)

*My experience with CS*

Zero Angel, something more to consider:

I did a 50 book print run for my book launch party. The cover looked great, but inside the typography was skewed. Some of the words were darker than others, as if I had bolded half of my manuscript in random places. I called customer service and she was very nice, had me send in a copy for review... they deemed it: "While they have found some inconsistencies with the printing of the interior, they have not found it to be outside of our production variance. However, as a courtesy, we have placed a note on your account requesting that your future order be manufactured only at our primary printing facility."

WTF?!!! They found inconsistencies but they aren't going to replace it?

Needless to say, I am annoyed. 

So you may want to consider that POD currently has issues with larger than 2-5 book print runs. 

Anyone else have this problem?


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## Zero Angel (Sep 27, 2012)

Mary C. Moore said:


> Zero Angel, something more to consider:
> 
> I did a 50 book print run for my book launch party. The cover looked great, but inside the typography was skewed. Some of the words were darker than others, as if I had bolded half of my manuscript in random places. I called customer service and she was very nice, had me send in a copy for review... they deemed it: "While they have found some inconsistencies with the printing of the interior, they have not found it to be outside of our production variance. However, as a courtesy, we have placed a note on your account requesting that your future order be manufactured only at our primary printing facility."
> 
> ...



Thanks, Mary C. Moore. I hadn't commented on this but I have been finding similar stories out there.

Apparently both CreateSpace and Lightning Source _regularly_ have some issues with Quality Control. From the aggregate views I've seen on this, I would say that CreateSpace is the worse of the two. 

I am interested how long ago that was for you? Some commentors have said that they are significantly better nowadays than before but still have issues pop up. 

I am concerned by the boldface issue--my original concerns were more like skewed covers and the like (which even the Big 6 tend to screw up so I wasn't holding it against them). But some people have said there were issues with missing pages!! --although that was a few years back incident.


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## Mary C. Moore (Sep 27, 2012)

This was less than a month ago. Everything else has been fine, and I checked my friends' copies that they ordered straight from Amazon, all beautiful. It's just been this one big run.


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## Zero Angel (Sep 27, 2012)

Mary C. Moore said:


> This was less than a month ago. Everything else has been fine, and I checked my friends' copies that they ordered straight from Amazon, all beautiful. It's just been this one big run.



That's disappointing!


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## Mary C. Moore (Sep 28, 2012)

Tell me about it! And embarrassing.


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