# Organizations for wizards, mages and other magic users



## WooHooMan (Dec 28, 2019)

So, I've been thinking: how do magic users organize themselves or how are they organized by others?

In a setting where using magic (by whatever definition of magic you want to use) is a skill to learn or an ability to use, would it then be necessary for magic users to organize themselves in some kind of system or organization to pass-on knowledge of magic or possibly a system to keep magic users from causing problems for the greater society?  I find schools for magic and secret society of magic users to be fairly common.  I've even seen religions that seem to stack their administration with magic users.  In any case, these groups seem to have some set of rules on how to use magic which they then enforce onto society.

Basically, what I'm asking is what kind of magic using factions do you have in your settings?  Alternatively, what do you think is a logical or interesting way for magic users to be organized?


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## CupofJoe (Dec 29, 2019)

Maybe it's my background, but I see Magic as a far more organic and far less organised. I don't see the need for a large organisation and a formal structure. I tend to write magic as something that is passed on like any skill. A wannabe Mage would pick or be picked by an experienced Mage and learn from them, just like the would Blacksmithing or Coopering. Maybe just one or working with several. There might be an unofficial pecking order for those in the know but it isn't a structural.


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## Momonkiir (Dec 29, 2019)

I think magic is more of an "each to his own" in my projects. an example is my current project one of my major characters loves to use and experiment with magic because he wants to use it to entertain, however the ruling body and society as a whole tend to think of magic as tools and weapons. so while he messes around in alleyways and basements to make his magic more flashy everyone else uses it to cover their daily necessities. because of this, the schools for teaching both utility and military magic have vastly different ways of understanding how magic works to how my character does. there's also the fact that one of the requirements to enter the main policing force in this region requires people to be able to resist a certain level of magic power so that they can properly deal with magic threats which is something I don't see much of in fantasy worlds.


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## Insolent Lad (Dec 29, 2019)

How much tolerance society has for magic would play a role. If magicians are revered, organizations and institutions would be likely to develop, and magic might well be co-opted and controlled by government and/or religion. If they are hated, secretive teaching from master to apprentice would seem more likely. I suspect most societies would lie somewhere on a continuum between these two extremes. It would also depend on how advanced the society might be, of course. Hunter-gatherers are not going to get beyond the tribal shaman and his/her acolyte.


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## Sir Kenneth (Dec 29, 2019)

In my setting (loosely based on late iron age to early medieval Denmark) I've gone for treating magic users as pre industrial rural communities might treat a local "clever" man or woman. Kind of like informal village shamans with no formal organisation and them just training whatever local kid who appears to have a knack for that sort of thing.


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## Momonkiir (Dec 29, 2019)

Momonkiir said:


> my major characters loves to use and experiment with magic because he wants to use it to entertain, however the ruling body and society as a whole tend to think of magic as tools and weapons.


I was in a bit of a rush when I wrote this so i thought I should clarify. In my project, magic is a parallel to science in many ways. the government has heavy influence on how its taught to students, people are expected to be able to learn the same way and those who excel are put on a pedestal by much of society. one of the main differences is that magic research is heavily regulated by the ruling class so that it's only used by those with what they determine to be the correct knowledge. one of these ways is to, much like real life again, make people study and test for licenses to use certain types and levels of magic. so a small hobby farmer can use weak growth magic on their personal crops, while a large farming company can hire high power and high volume mages to increase efficiency and quality of their farms and a military mage can use growth magic to halt enemy advances. A real world parallel is like driving licences. everyone _can _get a drivers licence, but just because you can drive a car doesn't mean you can drive a semi-truck in a convoy or a tank through a war zone, you need to be properly trained. 

I find that magic is a great way to explore real world phenomena, so I find it best to shape the way  magic is taught and how it's regulated depending on it's use in the story. Is it compared to something in daily life? is it used to explore something no one really thinks about? is it just there as part of the world? these are the main questions I use to help me shape both my magic systems and how they're implemented into society. I think a great example is the web comic "A Returners Magic Should Be Special" because it uses magic to comment on how the wealthy are often given priority over the poor, even if the poor are far more skilled than the wealthy. while the magic system is well formed and has clear rules, the way it's regulated shows the disparity of the rich and the poor when it comes to enforcement.

In my work I try to make magic a parallel to something in the real world. so in one of my old projects I compared it to drugs, some people could use it without any major side effects while others got hooked on it and became reliant on it. in that project magic was taught - much like how drugs are given out in real world - either by professionals who could shape their teaching to what you needed, or by people around you who wanted to show you a thing or two about this cool new thing that everyone was doing. In either situation there could be positive or negative side effects.

so TLDR the way I regulate magic depends on the story and how magic fits in to both the story and the world.


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## Insolent Lad (Dec 29, 2019)

I've actually been roughing out an idea for a story not set in my main universe where magic is seen not as science but as art, and the magicians' academy is very much like an art school. The premise is that everyone has magical ability, just as everyone can draw stick figures, but some are more talented than others and need to learn the nuts and bolts (or brushes and paints) of their craft. In such a setting there would be 'academicians' and those who rebel against their rules and restrictions (think the art world in 19th Century France, maybe). Official recognition would go a long way to further ones career.

Having a degree in Art History, I guess it was to be expected I would do something like this eventually.


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## Devor (Dec 29, 2019)

Do it the simple old fashioned way then.  Have a wizard sit on the steps four times a week teaching a few things to anyone who comes up to them.  Then when someone is particularly interested and shows promise, boom, apprenticeship.  Throw in some travel to meet with others, some big meetings, some lonely hermits who've stopped teaching and locked themselves in their tower, and you're on track.


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## skip.knox (Dec 29, 2019)

Magic and its practice develops over time in Altearth; my website has brief essays on the major developments. But I'll give you a short description of how things are working at the time of my WIP. There's a range, a variety.

At one end, we have the local hedge witch type, the wise woman or man who might be a natural talent, but might just be a good herbalist. These are people who live by other means, like farming, but who do this sort of thing on the side. A village is too poor to support a mage full-time.

But a local secular lord might be able to support a mage, and these might be itinerant across his realm, traveling to respond to specific issues. He gets these from a Tower, which is sort of a magical analog to a monastery. In earlier centuries, secular lords found it in their interest to be able to have a wizard available or even in direct employ. It was beyond their means to create and maintain a school, so they simply endowed a wizard with land and a building (a Tower might be any sort of architecture), providing to the wizard both income and residence. In turn, the lord had the right to name the head of the Tower and to expect to be able to draw on its abilities. Greater lords, of course, have court wizards.

That's one system. It varies greatly according to local culture, and the quality of the magicians likewise varies greatly. A second system also developed, somewhat later. It was based in cities. There, the citizens themselves finance Schools. These tend to specialize, but they also evolve over time. The bigger cities have multiple Schools and some interesting internal rivalries, for these days a city might grant a license to a School originally founded elsewhere. Sometimes kings and other great lords will recruit from Schools, but normally they prefer their wizards to be home-grown. Better control.

Then there's the Conlegium, which began as a league of organizations--some Towers, some Schools--with the goal of gaining a degree of independence from secular control. (Secular in Altearth means non-magical). This reform movement (so they position themselves) grew into great power and now operates as an international power in its own right.

Finally, there are outliers and outlaws. Tricksters, bandits who have a mage, that sort of thing. As with all such people, they are alternately romanticized, hidden, defended, and vilified, feared, and hounded.

So, that's the basic sketch. That's humans only. There are whole other things to be said about magic among dwarves, gnomes, elves, orcs, and trolls.


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## WooHooMan (Dec 29, 2019)

Insolent Lad said:


> How much tolerance society has for magic would play a role. If magicians are revered, organizations and institutions would be likely to develop, and magic might well be co-opted and controlled by government and/or religion. If they are hated, secretive teaching from master to apprentice would seem more likely.



I don’t know if this is completely true.  Take a look at organized crime: by definition, society doesn’t tolerate them yet they are often far-reaching and pretty damn organized with some aspect of a distinct culture, particularly with Italian mafias and Japanese yakuza.
I bring this up because the magical society in my story is partially based on the mafia in terms of structure/organization.  Only partially though since magic isn’t outlawed or even really looked down on in my setting.  Other inspirations include American gun culture, youth subcultures and local music scenes/communities.



Momonkiir said:


> I was in a bit of a rush when I wrote this so i thought I should clarify.



I’m not looking to hear about how magic works in a setting or how the greater society views magic in detail.  I want to know about the relationship between magic users, their “culture/society” and how they pass on knowledge between each other.
In your setting, it seems like magic users are a form of specialized laborers.  So would there be anything equivalencies to a guild or union (presumably state-sponsored) or do the schools you only briefly mentioned have any particular culture or distinct structure attached to them?


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## Momonkiir (Dec 30, 2019)

WooHooMan said:


> So would there be anything equivalencies to a guild or union (presumably state-sponsored) or do the schools you only briefly mentioned have any particular culture or distinct structure attached to them?


Yes. Basically, magic in my project has a mix of school and science culture. Most mages are attached to either a magic school or a licensed organization and they tend to interact based on their fields of research and how it affects both society and magic as a whole. I'm currently trying to make my mages more like scientists from the real world, they're fueled by curiosity and want to make more and better discoveries - but the state limits them on what they can study to what might be "ethical". Fore example, we don't test to see if we can bring humans back to life because most of society agrees that it is in some way disrespectful to essentially "play god" but that doesn't mean that people don't want to try it out. so I have a kind of state-run AAAS or ICSU that works to advance magic while making sure it doesn't get used to harm innocents and play god.


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## Prince of Spires (Dec 30, 2019)

It depends on how a person learns magic. There's two categories a magic system can fall under. You either just sort of know what you need to do or it's a skill and needs to be taught.

If it's the first then there will be very little in the way of organization. I think the wheel of time system sort of follows this. Yes, there's a school there. But I'm not completely sure what kind of teaching they really do, other then "this is how you make sure you don't blow yourself up". Most of the time, the main characters intuitively figure out how they need to do something. They have a flash of inspiration and just know how it works. There's no real world counterpart to this. But it's magic, so why not.

If magic is a skill and you need to practice then you will most likely see teachers in some form. And pretty much all forms you can think of have been done with different skills in human history. There's tutors, schools, universities, guilds, religious organizations, companies freely sharing information and discoveries but also good old trial and error. Anything and everything has been tried throughout history. 

From human history, often the society which has the teaching part organized best comes out on top. The Italians of Florence had the teaching part figured out pretty nicely when they kicked off their renaissance art golden age. The companies freely sharing knowledge and people tutoring helped establish silicon valley as the tech hub it is today.


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## skip.knox (Dec 30, 2019)

There are actually a number of ways to teach, and education is something different from training. For example, there's what happens during an apprenticeship. That's different from, say, a grammar school. Which is different from the learning done in graduate school. 

I'm sometimes amused by fantasy schools because they're almost always modeled on 19thc or even 20thc schools. Mass education like that only came around in the late 18thc and only took final form after compulsory mass education in the mid-to-late 19thc. The medieval model was tutoring. Around the 12thc we get a new model, the lecture, which grew out of cathedral schools and then universities. The grammar schools of the more advanced cities were more like training--how to write. They're called grammar schools for a reason.

Anyway, in this as in other areas, there's quite a variety to draw upon, most of it neglected by writers. I sort of get it. It's not only easier to draw on familiar (modern) models, it's also easier for the reader to grasp. It takes more work for author and reader to understand the world of, say, 12thc Salerno or 13thc Paris. Or 15thc Rostock.


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## skip.knox (Dec 30, 2019)

As for magic and society at large, I think this is a fascinating question. I'm still working on it for Altearth, but a comment by WooHoo Man caught my eye.

>Take a look at organized crime: by definition, society doesn’t tolerate them yet they are often far-reaching and pretty damn organized with some aspect of a distinct culture, particularly with Italian mafias and Japanese yakuza.

This level of organization, whether legal or criminal, really depends on advanced transportation and communication. These things didn't exist in the Middle Ages. So it's going to depend on the tech level of your world. The closest I can come to "organized crime" in the MA would be the mercenary companies of the 14thc and 15thc. One of the most successful was the Catalan Company, which wound up ruling part of Greece (long story). But by then, they were gaining lands and acquiring titles, so they were on their way to becoming local nobility more than criminals. They were becoming the society rather than operating within or outside society. Sure criminals were organized at a very local level.

Magic, of course, can make up for a lack of tech.


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## R.H. Smith (Dec 30, 2019)

I see here a lot of people are going with the Magic is an everyday thing and governance should be placed/used along the lines of a Fraternity or like-minded people. Now we all know that this is easier said than done in the real world (yes, yes, we are writing fiction, i know) but the reader can only infer that they (magic-users) are all goodly and kind-hearted. On that note I like to write using magic is the God particle. It's something so destructive and powerful and creative. Let's look at it this way...if magic is learned via classes, tutoring, being an apprentice to someone that already knows magic, how is magic different, unique, special? Anyone can do it. If that's the case, then by all means scholars of like minds will converge and democratically elect a leader to guide them in getting even more powerful. But, again, if you're like me where magic can basically reshape the world, fear would be the number one reason to curb, if not shape, control, direct how magic is used, disseminated, taught. We're playing God here people. societies rules can kiss my ass in my worlds, much like they greatly shape some other things. In the end, what will give the reader that ultimate rush in reading your words? Something that bucks convention in a unique way to create a magic scenario where it's all or nothing, or (don't get me wrong I'm not bashing here) a wizarding world like Harry Potter with magic influencing governments and such?

P.S. Apologies for all those three worded adjectives across the post...just practicing!


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## skip.knox (Dec 30, 2019)

I think there's more room for nuance. In Altearth, dwarves can work with stone and metal. What they can do specifically is peculiar to this or that clan, and each clan both keeps its own secrets and respects those of others. A human can't do what a dwarf can, nor can an elf. It is similar with gnomes.

Among humans, magic is so variable it's extremely difficult to teach, at least until people begin to understand some of the basic principles underlying it. So, for a long time, magic was a bit like playing with unlabeled chemicals and someone swaps bottles every night. No superpowers here, or at least when it happens it's not reliably reproducible. 

If magic is world-shaping, then I just don't know what to do with it as an author. Not bashing here, either. I just can't find stories when every character is a _deus_ and there are _machinas_ all over the place for them to jump out of. That said, I think some SF writers have managed it with super-tech and still able to tell a good story. So it's not impossible, just impossible for me.


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## WooHooMan (Dec 30, 2019)

R.H. Smith said:


> (their whole post)


This is all interesting and all but the objective of this thread is that I want to hear about other people’s magic casting communities, not to brainstorm what they could be doing with them.  All these questions you’re proposing are probably better asked elsewhere.

If you believe you’re doing something unique with you magician communities,  I’d love to hear about them.


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## skip.knox (Dec 30, 2019)

I thought I had given a relevant reply. Now I'm curious why you think what I described isn't a description of magic-casting communities and how they relate to the general society. Not looking to argue; I'm genuinely curious how I missed the mark, because I find the original question interesting, too.


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## WooHooMan (Dec 30, 2019)

I was referencing the post above you, slip.knox.  Sorry about that.



CupofJoe said:


> I tend to write magic as something that is passed on like any skill. A wannabe Mage would pick or be picked by an experienced Mage and learn from them, just like the would Blacksmithing or Coopering. Maybe just one or working with several. There might be an unofficial pecking order for those in the know but it isn't a structural.





Devor said:


> Have a wizard sit on the steps four times a week teaching a few things to anyone who comes up to them.  Then when someone is particularly interested and shows promise, boom, apprenticeship.  Throw in some travel to meet with others, some big meetings, some lonely hermits who've stopped teaching and locked themselves in their tower, and you're on track.



Since you two have really short, concise answers; I’ll throw out a follow-up question for you (and this is kind of a question for everyone else too, I guess):
Why would an experienced wizard want an apprentice?  If it is really the equivalent of a real-world trade, I’m expecting that the master would be looking to get some monetary compensation for their teaching but I feel like if that were the case there would be some manner of industry for magic teaching.  If there’s a supply of teachers willing to offer their services and potential students with a demand to learn, doesn’t that make a business?

And to Devor, specifically: have you considered what the wizards would meet about when they do meet or how the wizards even would know of each others’ existence?
Or was your post less of what you do and more you illustrating the old school way of doing it?  If that’s the case, when do the world builders here ever just default to the old school way of doing things?  It seems like building upon and playing with conventions and cliches is the bread and butter of this forum.


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## Garren Jacobsen (Dec 31, 2019)

WooHooMan said:


> Basically, what I'm asking is what kind of magic using factions do you have in your settings?


I have multiple kinds of magical factions. In one setting I have a nation of primarily magical people set in a far distant earth. They have an uneasy truce with the remaining non-magical world. But they only became a unified country after a terrible global conflict that wound up bringing the world to the brink of destruction due to biological and magical WMDs.

In another, you have a quasi-governmental organization much like the HP series's ministry of magic. Which, BTW, is a bit of dystopian nightmare IMO. The ministry is whack. The reason for this is your classic urban fantasy reason, magic is scary and nonmagic hate it and guns can outshoot magic on the large scale.

In yet another, I have two magical communities, one of thieves (which has religious implications) and another that protects the world from a crazy demon guy. 

The consistent theme in all of these, is that they all sprang up as a reaction to the needs of either the magical community or the community at large. And that's how most organizations come about. A group or subgroup have a need, people come together to fill the need, new needs = new groups or an expansion of the group's original purpose.

So, my first step is to ask what is my magic, what are its people's needs, and to ask whether or not it is hidden or open. Those get the general skeleton of what the group is, how dispersed it is, and how it functions.


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## Orc Knight (Dec 31, 2019)

All right, the many magics of Eld.

Eld has Guilds, Houses, Covens, Hedges, Tower Outliers, Magocracies, Mage Knighthoods. Also Liches and Seers, though most avoid the former and the latter were mostly killed off and then prophecy got broken. Anywho.

The Guilds: Among the more powerful in the world, usually a fairly large size collective that do basic duties and are spread all over Eld. The Guild of Lao and Hat Fanciers, The Hats for short, are very common. Though known for necromancy and a big part of their business model is on the basis of getting in touch with ancestors or historical figures they also do everything in between. From the Lao of Life and Fertility to Mage Tinkers and a lot of others in between. They can usually be easily found by the fact they dress very well, usually in suits or dresses and of course the fancy hats.

The Houses: These are currently four, Houses Black, White, Red and Blue. All ruled by a head witch, Liza, Baba Yaga, Silver and Glinda. The four stand as bedrock of both political and social magic. Each have armies they can throw around and several have gone to war with each other from time to time. In time Blue, Black and Red would ally together and White would continue to be a pain to everyone else. All of them have enough clout to make even the elves and greens listen to them. And Liza and Glinda all but co-rule with the rulers of their respective lands.

Covens: Your typical sort, three is standard and they keep to odd numbers. The currently most powerful coven is the Sylvan Forest coven, consisting of Maleficent, Ursula and Grimhilde of Bluebells. They have all defied their songs and stories and two rule over cities and Grimhilde hangs out at the Seven Dwarfs Inn and keeps trying to get Snow to join the coven. Covens tend to stick to themselves, meet from time to time and take care of local issues. They tend to have to be able to use multiple magics and have a sort of jack of all trades vibe. Or Master of All Trades in Maleficent's case.

Hedges: Traveling sort of low level mages, wizards, witches and other magic users. There's always a few who are shady and snake oil sorts. Most are fairly honest and usually not going to fake things. They're usually in need of food and coin, so they need to have a good rep. Many will take up apprentices and they attach themselves to villages to become the local Hedge. They wander until they find a place that has need of them and then become the local wizard.

Tower Outliers: Those like Edwin the Necromancer, or as he is nicknamed, 'Ed of the Dead'. He doesn't come out of his tower often enough to be bothered by said nickname. The Tower outliers are the sort of mage who prefers to hang out, do lots of research and experiments. Or in the old days, to cast curses and cause all sorts of trouble from. The Outliers range in power and clout. Most around just want to be left alone and sometimes go to lethal measures to be left alone. But ever are they in a tower.

Magocrocies and Mage Knights: Born of the human slave rebellions of Zukal. Ruled by the might of mages and their golem armies, alchemists, forge knights and mage knights. They are the single most powerful entity on this list, even as a broken kingdom. Once a continent and ocean spanning empire at it's peak. They also have the best University for magic and it creates even to this day a great many mages of some power. They are currently ruled by the Arch Mage Selina and the Mage Queen and King of Zukal.

Bonuses-

Liches: The life suckers of Magic and what everyone fights against. They are supreme magical powers and have been known to kill gods and elders. They started the war named after them. They don't have names so much as titles.

Seers: With the end of prophecy, they are few and far between. Not helped by the fact The Mab killed as many as she could and stuck their eyes and souls into her armor and cape and helmets so she could never be caught off guard. This worked until the paths of prophecy were cut out.

Death Priests, Reapers, Keepers of the Dead: Hallowed necromancers who deal with the rites of the dead and operate more as holy temples to the deities of death. They bring the dead to peace, fight the undead and give rites to the dead. The Liches tried to give them bad press but they live on. They are also out after The Veil Walker, the only necromancer to turn to Lich. To put it to peace. Preferably violently.


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## Orc Knight (Jan 1, 2020)

One last bonus I forget.

The Nones: The natural born anti magical people. Counted among the original dragon slayers and mage killers in a world known for exceptionally powerful magic. Due to being hunted down even as they were used as elites in a usual dichotomy of things. They are the natural counter who in time can kill magic by simply existing. Those left over and who know what they are have a fortress monastery on the Celestial Lands side of the Dragonspine Mountains where they keep hidden. Once brought out, due to the undead and Liches being unable to see them through magic, they are really good at killing them. Again. They are still few, numbering little over a couple hundred and not all of them joining the fights. The best known None is Flora Sunshield, the titled Dragon Puncher and bodyguard of Adriel Sunleaf.


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## Saigonnus (Jan 5, 2020)

I think each culture should have a different way of doing things. Maybe some are like monks, others more like a school, perhaps in other places magic is prohibited, so it needs to be kept secret.


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## WooHooMan (Jan 5, 2020)

This thread went longer than I thought.  That's nice.  Thank you everyone for you posts.

I figured I'd talk a little bit about my mage groups though I didn't really plan to.  I'll start with the groups and so forth as they relate to my main character and then mention/summarize all the other groups that appear in this story.  But first, I'll point-out that I really went hard on the idea that spellcasting is a skill like painting or playing an instrument and that magic, as a whole, is an art.

The main character was the apprentice of a master mage twice in his life.  He was one of several apprentices to a master mage between the ages of 12 and 15.  That's where he learned the basic building blocks of magic.  He more or less dropped it after his dad passed away.  Then he was the only apprentice under a different, more highly regarded master mage between ages 18 and 21.  He got his first apprenticeship because his parents were friends with that teacher.  He got his second teacher by being recommended by his first teacher.
In between his two apprenticeships, he lived with a commune of young magicians who practiced and learned magic from each other.  Very democratic with no leaders or agendas save for their own betterment.  Also, they split the rent on their communal home.
From ages 22 to about 26, he was part of the Bleeding Hearts Club who were just a social club for magicians.  They had a chairman and "governing body" who oversaw the groups finances, administration and whatever events or parties they were hosting.  Being a member was just a social status thing and they were very picky about their members - they only accept "accomplished" magicians.

The most prominent mage group in the story (in that the reader meets all of their members) is a group of five mages who have no group name or rules to being a member.  They are just a group of mages who meet-up, hang out and do magic together.  They learn from one another and pull their resources.  The de-facto leader is meant to be the "frontman" of this "band".  He's the face and personality of the group.  His teacher is the drummer: the fun guy who acts as the backbone for their little act.

There's also a "movement" called the Syzygarians.  They have characteristics: they approach magic the same way, they dress similarly and they generally have a similar method of doing things.  They don't have any real unity.  There's cells and gangs here and there but there are no really leaders.  Though some Syzygaian mages may be icons within this movement.  At their core, they are all about the relationship between the consciousness and reality, and they see magic as a tool for where those two spheres overlap.
There are other magic movements like the Neogaians ("modern" druids, basically), Illuminists (a "genre" that hybridize alchemy and illusionism) and so forth.  They all have their fashions and their philosophies.

Then there are groups like the Starbrokers (a magic crime organization), the Windrunners (a religious order who use magic as a religious tool), various orders of mage-knights, and the Infernal Order of the Outer Ceremonies (a group who are commissioned to assist people with demon summoning rituals).  Those groups all have names, leaders, ranks, rules and agendas.

So, there's different levels of centralization and structure.  From the apprenticeships to the loose social circles to the movement to the organizations.


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## ChasingSuns (Jan 6, 2020)

There's too many variations of mage factions in my WIP to go into in one thread, but there's a couple of primary ones that I can talk about.

The first (and arguably the largest) group is the city of Vharja. It is a floating island that moves around in an effort to remain well-hidden. The island is basically a single large mage city that sort of functions as a place of study. It doesn't function like a school, but rather a place for capable mages to hone their craft without having to worry about paranoid anti-magic groups or curious townsfolk getting in their way. The city is maintained and controlled by a group of powerful mages known as the Conclave of Mysteries. They mostly focus on the day to day aspects of keeping the city functioning, such as maintaining the spell that literally keeps the island afloat. The only thing that might make them feel inclined to interfere with a mage's research would be if the island were placed in jeopardy. There are also ideas that are considered taboo in Vharja. One such taboo is the discussion of magic being of a divine nature. Most mages here perceive magic as an innate power similar to the Force, rather than being the gift of a god (I guess you could call them magical atheists).

Another group who are very well known are the Kholgaru, a religious sect of warpriests who wield magic in battle. You could kinda think of them as Tibetan monks with magic. They are also based in a region that is completely driven by trade. The philosophy of this kingdom is that, at the end of the day, everything is for sale. So, even though these priests mostly focus on their devotion to their deity, they also act as a sellsword company.

There are also mage units in other kingdoms, although these function more like knightly orders than mage guilds. In fact, you have to be a knight in order to even join those mage units, so being a mageknight becomes a symbol of prestige.


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## Mathas (Jan 9, 2020)

Something you could possibly think about is the idea that maybe the government or ruling body of your world has segregated magic, or it runs on magic, and it needs in both cases to enforce or control the use of magic.

Or maybe in a society or world where magic is allowed, you might have different races that use magic for different reasons, not just dark and light, but for different purposes like building, war, cultivation of crops, protection of royalty, recording of history etc. Then you could possibly think of it as less like magical orders, and more like actual roles and jobs, like a shoemaker, a fishmonger, a carpenter etc. like in Harry Potter, you have teachers, and you have aurors who are basically magic police. Then you would think about your race and how they work, and how they name things and what they believe in, and try to apply all of that to certain roles, instead of just having an Elvish shoemaker, you could have something that would apply to the society, and not necessarily what we know to be normal.

Adversely, in a world where magic is seen as illegal or dangerous, and the ruling body is against it and are trying to control it, you may have other organisations whose purpose is to control, incarcerate, attack or prosecute magic, like the Inquisition, or some kind of military force out to stop magic at all costs. Then you could think about how they prosper, and how magic users would not prosper. Take it one step further and think about how magic users might have to hide and therefore change their geographic location despite being more suited to a different climate, and how that would challenge them.

You could go the route of a religious order, like the Knights Templar, but they are magic users and their religion is the magic. In that case, you should try to find info on The Knights Pandion, from David Eddings books. They are a military monk order like the Knights Templar and they can use magic.


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## Onion Volcano (Jan 12, 2020)

I thought the series by Lev Grossman, "The Magicians," handled this well. You have formal magical schools and you have people who learn on their own or with smaller groups.  The magical schoolgoers are arrogant about their credentials and refer to the other groups as "hedge witches," or some other such derogatory terms.  

Those same hedge witches are much tougher and better at magic, and the things they do are horribly dangerous.


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## Rosemary Tea (Feb 24, 2021)

WooHooMan said:


> Since you two have really short, concise answers; I’ll throw out a follow-up question for you (and this is kind of a question for everyone else too, I guess):
> *Why would an experienced wizard want an apprentice?  If it is really the equivalent of a real-world trade, I’m expecting that the master would be looking to get some monetary compensation for their teaching but I feel like if that were the case there would be some manner of industry for magic teaching.  If there’s a supply of teachers willing to offer their services and potential students with a demand to learn, doesn’t that make a business?*


This is a question I've really explored in my current WIP. It involves that very scenario, but the motivation for the experienced wizard (mage, in my story) to take an apprentice isn't monetary compensation, but status. It's considered a very high honor, in their magical society, to train an apprentice. It's also a culture where lineage counts for everything, and for a mage, the lineage that really counts is their magical lineage. Your magery ancestors are the master you learned from, and their master, and theirs, back down the line. Your magery descendants start with your apprentice. Having them really raises your status.

Plus, many of the mages find emotional satisfaction in teaching an apprentice and developing a relationship with them. Some really care much more about that than about status.

They're all allocated the resources they need to live on and do their jobs. A mage with an apprentice gets enough extra to support the apprentice, but that isn't treated as compensation, just making the job of training one possible. Money isn't really what motivates a mage. What they care about is the actual work that they're doing, their values, and their status.


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## JunkMonger122 (Mar 5, 2021)

In my primary setting(Terra Sola), everyone can use Magic. It's been integrated into everything through Alchemy(which I define as mixing Magic with different things). Magic is taught at school as a compulsory course alongside Math, History, Science, and English(your common core stuff). As a student progresses through the grades, they learn more about Magic and and can cast basic spells and use Magic Items after finishing high school. It's part of getting your diploma. After high school things start getting complex. Whether you go into college or into the military, you are trained in appropriate magic and Alchemy for your career. Chefs will learn Fire and Water Magic and Alchemy designed to help in the kitchen while Gladiators will lean towards flashy battle magic. Everyone knows a little bit of battle magic and little bit of healing magic to get by on in case of emergencies. If college/military doesn't seem right for you, most spells are tucked away in spell books that anyone can pick up and learn from provided they can read the language. Every organization in Terra Sola uses Magic in some way, because everyone in Terra Sola uses Magic or at least uses Magic Items. Thus, every organization can be considered a "wizard's guild" on a technical level because everyone is a wizard.


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## John McNeil (Apr 23, 2021)

I have 4 schools of magic. The mages are drawn from four nations. Three of the schools work together to train students and qualified mages are free to move about serving the public or carry out work required by the schools. They have a number of limitations put on their actions by the accords drawn up by the four nations (the most important being that a mage can never return home to the nation of their origin). The fourth school monitors the activities of the other three and acts as diplomatic liaisons to the leaders of the four nations. A secret society of normal humans monitors the fourth school.

Mine is highly structured but that comes about because the ability to perform magic is granted by a substance to only the people selected by the four nations.


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