# How about Dwarves?



## Alex (Dec 18, 2011)

We've all seen Elves and Dwarves in movies and books before but what is everyone's opinion on Dwarves.  Also, what role does everyone think that they fit the best within a story


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## Johnny Cosmo (Dec 18, 2011)

> Also, what role does everyone think that they fit the best within a story



I don't think an entire race should be reduced to a simple role; that's what leads to problems with 'cliche'. I don't mind them if they're done well (like anything really), but I probably wouldn't use them myself. Which is interesting, because when I was about eleven I wanted to write a fantasy story with a dwarf hero/POV. Probably because of it was about the time I read the Hobbit, which is very dwarf heavy.


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## Giant (Dec 18, 2011)

I like the use of dwarves in stories, but not if they are put into the story to serve one purpose or role. I am not a fan of an entire evil race of one species, and likewise also not a fan of an entire peaceful race of do-gooders. 

I think the use of dwarves in a story can work well when you use some of the stereotypes readers have become accustomed to, but then modify others enough to give the species a unique identity in your book.

I try to think about the race of my characters last, and the purpose of the character first. Otherwise I have a tendency to insert races just for the sake of inserting them. Plus after the need of the character is established, I can write a few versions of the same character as different races to see which one is the best.


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## Codey Amprim (Dec 18, 2011)

I don't really know how I feel about dwarves. I feel like it's a commitment that I don't want to gamble on quite yet. As stated already, they can be quite interesting if used well. I like the dwarven race in The Elder Scrolls series; they've all died out and left their legacy behind, but you can tell a lot of their nature and culture just from their remains as you uncover more and more of them. I don't really know how I'm going to tackle the dwarves, if at all. I think they could fit in my world, but I don't think they're necessary. So idk!


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## Xanados (Dec 20, 2011)

There are certain traits about Dwarves that I adore. The architecture of Dwarven homes is magnificent, so is their appearance and culture. Dwarves are heavily inspired by Norse Mythology. I just don't think that it is necessary to use them in my story, like Codey said.


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## Aidan of the tavern (Dec 21, 2011)

I've got dwarves as minor characters in my story, there just another society really, slightly detatched from human society, though they are happy to co-exist.  Yes they do have beards and live underground, but they get on fine with elves, are generally polite, aren't comedy characters and are no more unclean than humans. 

 In my draft there was a tyranical kingdom from which the elves and dwarves both went into hiding, leaving some humans to label them as dishonourable cowards, which drew elves and dwarves close together.  They both later contributed to the downfall of the kingdom, regaining some respect from the humans.


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## myrddin173 (Dec 21, 2011)

In my WIP world one of the seven nations is the "home" of the dwarves though it is not uncommon to see them in most of the others.  Unlike most other people's dwarves mine don't live underground, though they do live in a mountain range.  Their cities are open to the air.  They don't get on well with the elves simply because their magics are in distinct conflict (Change and Unchange don't mix well) though one of the members of the MC's crew is an elf who was raised by an old dwarf lady.  My first book is the one that focuses on the dwarves.


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## Codey Amprim (Dec 25, 2011)

How about the dwarves of Dragon Age? I feel that they are very unique in how they act and their society customs. They seem mostly evil, and I've always loathed hateful beings but they are very interesting, especially how they were presented within Origins.


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## W.k. Trail (Dec 27, 2011)

I don't have dwarves in my setting.  They don't really fill a need story-wise: my elves live forever (or until dismantled , ) my humans live the usual amount, and my half-elves live 200-400 years depending on heritage.  Dwarves just introduce a sexually incompatible species that isn't sexy and doesn't add anything except the Standard Fantasy Expectation that they sound scottish and... mine in the earth, a lot.

What do you want dwarves to do?  If it is to "fill a role," I (as many other posters have said here) don't think you should worry about it.  It's hard for readers to take dwarves seriously because they can neither relate nor want to be them.  I think most readers envy a semi-immortal elf; a stubby dude who grimes around underground, not so much.  Never forget that you're writing for humans, who by and large want to feel cool.


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## Taytortots (Dec 28, 2011)

I love dwarves. I think that, if they are unique and not entirely stereotypical they can make dynamic and great characters. I myself have them in my novel, one 'main' character is a dwarf but for the most part they are just a society. 
As for reading, well, as I said, if you can make them unique as a species and individuals I love dwarves. I don't however, feel that they are necessary by any means.
As for what role, I agree with what Johnny said that I'm not so sure an entire race can fall into one roll. I think that they can really fill any role in a novel if used correctly. In my novel, the dwarves tend to be very skilled with their hands, but that doesn't mean they're all making weapons etc. They are a diverse culture like any other.


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## ThinkerX (Dec 29, 2011)

Dwarves are the most 'human-like' of my non-human races.  On my primary world, there are large human cites that have substantial dwarven populations; even the people of my slightly xenophobic primary empire don't have any major grudges against them.  In that empire, they serve in the legions, and (somewhat steriotypically) are often found as artisans.   But then again, they're not exactly major characters in my stories for that world.  

Other races...that be a different story.


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## Shpob (Dec 30, 2011)

I've always loved a good, badass dwarf willing to stand against hordes of underground critters to defend his mountain homeland. Or loch. 
But I do feel that unless you want a reader to immediately think "meh, cliche" you have to do something original with dwarves to make them your own. I think it's totally fine to have them mostly cliche (stout, mine-loving, bearded dudes) to make them recognizable as dwarves but it's good if not necessary to make another original trait of your own to make them interesting. For example, The Elder Scrolls made them an ancient race that invented a ton of very advanced technology.


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## OrionDarkwood (Jan 5, 2012)

Drawves factor heavily in my novels based on my homemade world of Kaneon. There are 4 ethnicity of dwarves . The Trueborn, the Lowbrow, Jungle  and the Star drawves. The Trueborn have waged several wars of genocide and assimilation against the Lowbrow and the Jungle Dwarves . Trueborns are the most stereotypical Dwarven , distrustful of the other races, runecasters and want nothing to do with tech (Kaneon has steampunk technology) and are easily spotted by their long braided beards. The Lowbrow are more open and use magic and tech as well as they wear their beards short or even sport goatees. Jungle drawves are  dark skinned, beardless dwarves that favor the jungles more than the mountains and hills. Lastly Star Dwarves are pale short bearded space faring dwarves that fly huge stone ships that entire colonies live in.


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## lawrence (Jan 6, 2012)

Dwarves are, from my understanding, a staple race of the fantasy fiction genre. They have certain key traits and characteristics that cannot be totally rewritten or you are actually creating a new fictional race and may as well also drop the race name.

Dwarves have their origin in Germanic mythology, and Tolkien seems to be largely responsible for the shaping of them in modern fiction. 

Despite the general traits/cultural keys, we can still employ creativity in using dwarves. The race can still be made up of real, diverse and nicely painted individuals rather than a homogenous clump. Tolkien himself had Mim, and he also had Gimli. And Thorin's company in The Hobbit are not clones but a group of individuals. 

I guess what I am trying to say is that dwarves are one of the greatest cultures of fantasy fiction. But we need genuine characters not cardboard cut outs, whether we write about dwarves, elves, men, or a brand new race of our own imagination.

edit -  just read shbops post, yeah, says it well. I think new traits can be introduced to help avoid cliche', tho I would add that only if the new angle sits well with the archtype. Stray too far and you may as well devise a whole new race.


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## Alex (Jan 6, 2012)

So what you're saying is its ok to use Tolkien's version of dwarves (with our own twists to make it our own) as long as they are not merely lifeless figures that look and talk like dwarves? By the way, I just finished the hobbies and Thorn and Co. are awesome.


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## lawrence (Jan 7, 2012)

Pretty much, yes. At least in my opinion. 

I think that some races are so firmly established in fantasy fiction that when we write about them we do have to be in step with previous incarnations, and dwarves are one such race. Otherwise you are actually just creating a new race and tacking on the label of a race that is already strongly identified with a different kind of creature. But, for example, we do not have to make all dwarves surly treasure hoarders who cannot hold a decent conversation about the wider world.

Tolkien drew from established mythologies and then built his own race with a rich heritage tied into the very fabric of Middle earth, just as his Elves were. You could do the same. Study the various myths and then bring in a new slant.


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## Evilyn (Jan 16, 2012)

W.k. Trail said:


> I don't have dwarves in my setting.  They don't really fill a need story-wise: my elves live forever (or until dismantled , ) my humans live the usual amount, and my half-elves live 200-400 years depending on heritage.  Dwarves just introduce a sexually incompatible species that isn't sexy and doesn't add anything except the Standard Fantasy Expectation that they sound scottish and... mine in the earth, a lot.
> 
> What do you want dwarves to do?  If it is to "fill a role," I (as many other posters have said here) don't think you should worry about it.  It's hard for readers to take dwarves seriously because they can neither relate nor want to be them.  I think most readers envy a semi-immortal elf; a stubby dude who grimes around underground, not so much.  Never forget that you're writing for humans, who by and large want to feel cool.




With all due respect I disagree, I find dwarves far more interesting to read and write about than elves. But I do believe this depends on how they are written, my dwarves are honourable, battle hardened and abrupt. I think readers can relate to dwarves, they are hard working, like a good drink and have family values. I think people aspire to be elves but not relate to them, I personally find elves too aloof.

Evi


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## Anders Ã„mting (Jan 16, 2012)

Frankly, I don't write the type of fantasy were dwarves would be expected to show up. I try to avoid the whole Tolkienesque thing, it's not quite my style.

If I did use dwarves, I think I'd make them more like the actual mythological dwarves - ancient supernatural beings, closer to gods then humans and rather dangerous to deal with.


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## Arcbound Phyrexian (Feb 11, 2012)

Evilyn said:


> With all due respect I disagree, I find dwarves far more interesting to read and write about than elves. But I do believe this depends on how they are written, my dwarves are honourable, battle hardened and abrupt. I think readers can relate to dwarves, they are hard working, like a good drink and have family values. I think people aspire to be elves but not relate to them, I personally find elves too aloof.
> 
> Evi



Gotta agree here. I love dwarves, but I generally couldn't care less about elves.


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## The Grey Sage (Feb 11, 2012)

Arcbound Phyrexian said:


> Gotta agree here. I love dwarves, but I generally couldn't care less about elves.



In general I would say, feel free to use them but they're generic. No story you make from it will be completely original, plus many readers will drag their own presuppositions in and have heck at your story. Most of your characters will instantly become assumptions, but used correctly that works for you. Not only do you describe less, but you have more material. All in all, not original but has its pluses. Personally I don't think either is better, Elves are overused but good in the hands of a competent author, and the same with dwarves.


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## Fnord (Feb 12, 2012)

It's interesting, someone in a gaming group a long time ago pointed out that there are two types of fantasy people: elf people and dwarf people.  I'm definitely a dwarf person.  I've always struggled with making elves that didn't bore the crap out of me, so I stopped using them altogether.


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## Steerpike (Feb 12, 2012)

I'll add my voice to those who enjoys reading about dwarves but wouldn't be too upset to never see another elf in a story.


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## Anders Ã„mting (Feb 12, 2012)

Fnord said:


> It's interesting, someone in a gaming group a long time ago pointed out that there are two types of fantasy people: elf people and dwarf people.



I'm more of a people person, myself.



> I'm definitely a dwarf person.  I've always struggled with making elves that didn't bore the crap out of me, so I stopped using them altogether.



Did you try writing elves who behave like dwarves?


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## Queshire (Feb 13, 2012)

'yo mentioned this in my other thread, but my dwarves are victims of a plague that changed them until they can't use all their cool magical gadgets and forces them to live their lives in enchanted armor that serves as an enviromental suit or else get petrified.


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## Benjamin Clayborne (Feb 13, 2012)

From a characterization standpoint, dwarves can be used to indicate steadfastness, loyalty, avarice, isolation, and industry. It depends on how you're structuring your story and your protagonists; if you've got a classic adventuring party, but having a dwarf there can give your protagonist an opportunity to see those characteristics from the outside, and decide whether he wants to be more or less like that. "I wish I was more loyal, like Hrobnir," or "I see Hrobnir being greedy and I want to avoid being like that," etc.


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## Alex (Feb 13, 2012)

Thank you all for the answers! I love dwarves, always have


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