# Firearms in your Fantasy?



## Orc Knight (May 9, 2019)

Sorry, no clever title this time round. So, this is a simple question for y'all. Do you allow firearms and explosives in your fantasy stories? Or in some version? Or is the magic simply more useful? Okay, so a few questions. With my usual example to start it off.

Eld does have firearms, not the most advanced, but at least to the level of mid WW1 guns and firepower. Granted the only ones who have them are humans, but they use advanced magiteck anyways. Though since the Lich Wars, such weapons have fallen almost into a rarity. Mostly because those who can make and maintain them, much like the other advanced tech and magic, got killed in that attempt at the apocalypse. So much like with the magic power armor and airships, guns have been rendered to near relic status while retaining their killing power.

I also didn't start with guns, going with the classic style fantasy. It turned out the playing field needed leveled some way and humans would find many, guns being just one. So, no dwarves with them. Well, not all the time. Some bought them as curiosities and few use them in combat situations. Goblins also have a version of sorts, but it usually comes with their versions of power armor.

So, as per my usual rambling, how about you?


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## Denis von Strausburg (May 9, 2019)

I use firearms only in small doses, only black powder weapons such as muskets and pistols. They are available in the world but are in the stage where they simply aren't as reliable as a crossbow for the untrained, and as such bows and crossbows are seen more in terms of ranged weapons. A few people have the training, and the know how to maintain the weapons so they can still be used accurately, and offer better damage against armored opponents, but most people in my world who are looking for long ranged weapons either for personal use or for armies stick with crossbows for ease, or bows if they are willing to go for the extra training, but rarely ever firearms.


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## JGCully (May 9, 2019)

My view is simular to Denis. Black powder weapons. It's not that they're rare, it's that they are simply another weapon option alongside bows and crossbows. My main character uses a pistol and 'elvish snipers' are mentioned but otherwise they don't have a predominate role. My books are also set in a 'post-war' society so further advancement in firearms technology will be artificially restricted...well, unless something starts things off again...


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## D. Gray Warrior (May 9, 2019)

The world I am currently building does have firearms, but limited to Renaissance era firearms, so there are handcannons, arquebuses, pistols, muskets, etc.


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## Gotis (May 9, 2019)

My WIP doesn't have guns, but I can see them developing. Most of the magic in my world is low-key.  Truly epic magic only comes with decades of study and mental discipline.  Also Iron naturally repels magic, though not completely. Firearms would probably develop, but not in the time period I'm writing in.


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## Tom (May 9, 2019)

I've been thinking about introducing firearms into my WIP, or at least the use of gunpowder in warfare. The technology in my world hasn't really progressed to the point where the invention of a matchlock mechanism would be feasible. Right now I'm thinking along the lines of Jin-period Chinese gunpowder use: fire arrows and lances, hand cannons, and pottery caltrops/bombs.


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## Orc Knight (May 9, 2019)

So it seems keeping it fairly low tech is a regular theme. Not that I expected too much different. Outside of urban fantasy it seems that not too many really want to use guns. And I can understand the reasoning behind it, given I didn't exactly want them for Eld. Black powder and early gun powder does seem common. Even Gandalf enjoyed his fireworks. No need for a smoky gun to get involved with elves and trolls (even if they are quite effective against both). Any thoughts on that?


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## Rkcapps (May 10, 2019)

I'm writing for a female audience, so no, but I can totally see them in male audience material.


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## Corwynn (May 11, 2019)

My setting has a roughly 1870s level of firearms tech. So you have revolvers, repeaters, and bolt-action rifles, but automatic weapons (except maybe Gatling guns) and smokeless powder haven't been invented yet. There are also some steampunk alternatives to conventional 19th century firearms, but most of these are rare and experimental. Pneumatic guns are fairly common and they have the advantages of being quieter, smokeless, and having much higher muzzle velocity. However, pneumatics have the disadvantage of needing a separate supply of compressed air to work, and because of the need to maintain a sealed firing chamber, repeater versions are impractical and most pneumatics are single shot. Keep in mind that all of these are recent inventions, not everyone can afford the latest tech, and guns are hard to come by in some places, so there are plenty of older firearm types and non-gunpowder weapons still in use.

I set the weapons tech level where it is for specific reasons. I wanted to have guns, but I also wanted traditional weapons like swords to still be viable, at least in certain circumstances. Up until the late 19th century, you could get away with using a sword sometimes because early firearms were less powerful, less accurate, smoky, slower firing, slower to reload, and had less ammo capacity. In my opinion, the invention of automatic firearms in the 1880s and 90s was the final nail in the coffin for non-gunpowder weapons. 

This isn't quite set in stone. Often I toy with the idea of downgrading the overall firearms tech, or making it so that only pneumatic guns exist because gunpowder was never discovered in my world (its discovery in ours was a fluke, so it's not too implausible). However, I'll most likely keep things where they are.


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## ThinkerX (May 11, 2019)

My worlds are in a state of transition from roughly late middle ages to the Enlightenment.  Explosive powder saw its first military use in the closing battles of the Traag War - barrels filled with black powder and sharp objects, hurled via catapults into the enemy ranks.  (The characters in my current tales are veterans of that conflict, a few had front row seats to that display).  Afterward, the engineers came up with more portable versions: the one used against the southern nomads ten years after the Traag War is a fat, hollow crossbow bolt filled with black powder that explodes on contact.  I am contemplating a series of novellas set most of a century after this period where cartridge type firearms are becoming standard issue.

That said, the 'ancient aliens' who terraformed these planets left all sorts of destructive toys behind when they departed - though most function poorly at best.


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## Orc Knight (May 11, 2019)

The Ancients really got to stop leaving extremely powerful tech and weapons just laying around. Any idiot could stumble on them and blow up the world.


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## Ned Marcus (May 12, 2019)

I do, but then I set my fantasy in technologically advanced societies on other planets.


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## ThinkerX (May 12, 2019)

Orc Knight said:


> The Ancients really got to stop leaving extremely powerful tech and weapons just laying around. Any idiot could stumble on them and blow up the world.



Most of it is badly damaged, and either wouldn't work or would fizzle out.  More importantly, the ancient alien tech that does work requires an operator with psi ability.   

One of the characters in 'Labyrinth: Seed' - a member of a recently returned alien race - bemoans this point at length, complaining about have to 'Frankenstein' components together to keep their machines functional.  A human sorceress does manage to activate another gargantuan relic, but it promptly reports a long list of issues ranging from low power to time damaged components.  (Still, it did demonstrate absolutely awesome abilities.)

In 'Empire: Judgment' the characters do spend time at a couple ancient alien installations (a ground based outpost and badly damaged spacecraft, respectively). The former has a lethal guardian - good enough to thwart the minions of a wizard king - and keeping the other from completely falling apart is a challenge.


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## kinslayeur (May 14, 2019)

In my world, I do merge firearms into the storyline, but only when my MC and supporting cast travel by boat to another land. There, they encounter people who have no magic abilities but use firearms. I have modeled them after the Spanish Conquistadors so it's not too futuristic and still a bit rough.


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## Garren Jacobsen (May 14, 2019)

I have a range of firearms in my works. I have one set in the distant future where big ol' honkin spaceships use magnets at people, making Newton the deadliest SOB the world has ever seen. Small arms are still powder operated. 

Another world is set in the 1870s so repeaters and revolvers and what not.

Another set right here on earth in the 2020s.

Another couple of worlds are just barely creating canons and figuring out how useful those could be.

TBH, I haven't really ever done no shooty-shooty pew-pews for any of my worlds.


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## Orc Knight (May 14, 2019)

Garren Jacobsen said:


> TBH, I haven't really ever done no shooty-shooty pew-pews for any of my worlds.



That sentence hurt even me. Like a sniper rifle it did.


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## Peat (May 14, 2019)

In most of my ideas, no. I just aesthetically find swords and what not more interesting.


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## Garren Jacobsen (May 14, 2019)

Orc Knight said:


> That sentence hurt even me. Like a sniper rifle it did.


Not even the worst sentence I have read. #quadruplenegativeFTW


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## Gray-Hand (May 14, 2019)

The construction of a castle with high walls is an important plot point in my story, so I’ve had to limit gunpowder to explosives and very early period mortars and cannons.  
Anything more advanced than that makes high castle walls obsolete.  So all but the most primitive hand cannons are out too.


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## Devor (May 14, 2019)

I've used guns a few times. I feel that a well-placed gun ramps up the fear level like nothing else can.

In my settings there's an element to gunpowder that's rare so firing a gun is expensive.  I actually have this alchemical system behind it, where the substitute-gunpowder represents a mix of fire and earth, while something like acid represents earth and water, and so on.  But the guns are the only part of that which I've ever used, so I don't know.


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## Orc Knight (May 15, 2019)

Peat said:


> In most of my ideas, no. I just aesthetically find swords and what not more interesting.



I understand that. As it was one of those reasons I'd really not wanted them in Eld.


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## Insolent Lad (May 16, 2019)

In my Donzalo's Destiny books, we're at an analog of the Late Renaissance, so guns are a fact of life. Some common soldiers may carry matchlocks, some may still use the crossbow, pike, etc, That depends on where they are and how cheap their employer might be. Cavalry men often carry a wheel-lock pistol or even two — if they can afford it.

Now, I have had 'introduced' guns in a couple stories, where someone has carried a modern weapon through a 'gate' into another world. Those don't last long, of course. Ammo will be used up and one must be careful with it!


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## Demesnedenoir (May 16, 2019)

Gun powder exists, dynamite... but, it’s very unstable due to Elemental energies. It’s a bit like Nitro only with attitude. If you’re packing dynamite around it can just blow, and once one stick goes, any nearby sticks are more likely to blow. Steam engines would suffer similar issues, or for that matter, even hydraulics, although mostly in less dramatic fashion than a fiery explosion. Distilleries need to stay on their toes, heh heh. 

So guns? Nope, not really. A single shot rifle is conceivable, but once you get to cartridge ammo, even if the bullets in your pack did you little harm, you’d have wasted a lot of money when they just started popping off, LOL.


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## Mel Syreth (May 18, 2019)

We have flintlocks as well. Nothing like pre-arming a beautiful hand-crafted weapon that could create a huge smoke-screen amidst the sound of a thunder strike. It's sort of a ritual in itself really. Some magicians use it as a spell proxy just for the prestige factor alone.


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## Futhark (May 18, 2019)

Firearms are not too far off in my world, so if my book(s) sell, I’ll get to have some of my more long lived characters packing six shooters.  Of course, the introduction of cannons will change the shape of the political powers that be, so that will be fun to explore.  I read a great book about the history of gunpowder in our world, but unfortunately I can’t remember which one it was.


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## Tom (May 18, 2019)

My setting isn't to the point of firearms technology, but I almost wish it was. Early matchlocks had comically bad aim and misfired just as often as they fired, which would make for some pretty entertaining battle scenes.


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## Saigonnus (May 23, 2019)

I personally think it’s a great concept. I have toyed with the idea myself. Imagine what a fantasy world would be like if set in a western setting. Dwarven gunsmiths, charms to make ammo explosive, orcs with artillery pieces. Magic coexisting with guns.


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## Orc Knight (May 23, 2019)

So WoW and The Iron Kingdoms and a few others.


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## Futhark (May 23, 2019)

I remember reading this book: *Grunts!* (1992) ...a satiric fantasy novel by British writer Mary Gentle.
Grunt - Wikipedia!
Basically orcs find a stash of modern military weaponry with a geas that turns them into marines.  Fun book.


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## Orc Knight (May 23, 2019)

I have that book, quite like it. Imagine that.


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## A. E. Lowan (May 24, 2019)

We write urban fantasy, so guns are everywhere. We even have a magical six-shooter, a named weapon called Agmundr, that was forged by dwarves and given to one of our MC's in exchange for years of labor. It will deliver a mortal wound to the immortal sidhe lords and the MC, Etienne Knight, has used it four times. The sidhe now give him a wide berth.


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## MrNybble (May 24, 2019)

Firearms are a luxury in my world. First challenge is the materials to make the propellant are rare and expensive. Not much need for firearms with magic providing a better means of ranged attacks. Creatures that can fly and/or use ranged attacks are trained for battle are more effective. Magic protection reduces the effectiveness of firearms even further. There are magical enhanced firearms that can be used only by a the person that made the weapon. One person in a million may have the skill to do this. Steam powered firearms are a thing, but have their own set of problems that make them ineffective for most applications. 

With all the things against mundane firearms, they are dedicated to an expensive show piece that can be used if needed.


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## skip.knox (May 24, 2019)

Because Altearth is an alternate history, there will inevitably be guns, all the way through sharks with lasers. The interesting (and still open) question is, how does this develop in Altearth? I mean, if you already have an army of mages who can deliver fireballs, what would motivate the development of cannons, and sidearms after that? 

I have a couple of factors in mind. One, magic in Altearth is notoriously unreliable. There would be a period where cannons would be so heavy, slow, and inaccurate, they'd be more supplement than replacement, but that would change over time. Combat mages would resent this; could make for an interesting story in there somewhere. 

The second, and ultimately more important factors, would be much the same as it was in Real Earth; namely, firearms take comparatively less training and so can be distributed to common recruits. Eventually that makes for a more powerful army than a purely magic-based one. Figuring out how combat magic and firearms might supplement one another (or conflict) is an interesting exercise in itself. In any case, the development of firearms would follow a somewhat different timeline in Altearth. Since it's all post-medieval, I haven't given it a lot of thought.

But now I realize I have to re-visit even more basic technologies. How would the advent of magic affect the traditional weaponry of catapult, bow and arrow, blade, and spear? I've already dealt a bit with how combat magic might affect traditional battlefield tactics, but only a little bit, for one book. But I'm going to have to tackle it head-on for my next book, which is set in the High Middle Ages and involves a whole range of armed encounters. No guns, though, as it's early 13thc. Dodged a bullet there. *groan*


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## X Equestris (May 25, 2019)

My superhero setting is Renaissance based, so I've got matchlock muskets and wheellock pistols.  They're expensive enough that the Izari City Guard are the only story relevant faction that has firearms in large numbers.  Some of the top agents for Izar's various crime families have wheellocks, but there aren't many of them.  The Lost Souls social movement acquired some muskets, thanks to their leader being able to create a dozen copies of any non-living object he touches every three hours, but they were still massively outgunned by the ICG.

With that setting, its post-apocalyptic nature greatly hinders their manufacture and sale.

I wrote a novella earlier this year that's basically a fantasy western, inspired by the Texas-Comanche War, so that world has cap and ball revolvers, flintlock muskets, percussion cap rifles, and shotguns.  Cartridges are just emerging, so whenever I come back to this world I plan to introduce revolving rifles and lever-actions.


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## robinlxs (May 29, 2019)

I don't have guns in my current work. Simply because they use magic instead. You don't need to invent gun powder if some one can throw fire balls out of his hands.


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## HIMDogson (Jun 1, 2019)

My setting is a WWII era setting where only elves can use magic. At this stage, everyone uses firearms, as guns outstripped the abilities of all but the most skilled mages at around the Revolutionary period. Currently, the average elven footsoldier uses firearms supplemented by the small amount of magic they have; meanwhile, specialized magic infantry act as tanks. Since the elves were until recently in isolation (before striking out in a last-ditch attempt to subjugate the world) humans have had to adapt their armies to fight magic; heavy tanks are next to useless, and light tanks absolutely bristling with machine guns usually act as mage-killers. No human weapon can match the power of a fully-realized warmage, but the elves cannot make new ones, they can only hope more are born.


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## J.W. Golan (Jun 1, 2019)

My current fantasy world sees very limited use of black powder - much like the centuries when the Chinese had gunpowder, but never thought of using it in concert with a long metal tube to propel a single projectile.

More interestingly, in my current writing, magic is used to enhance the very limited quantities of black powder in use. In other words, a poorer mage can use black powder in concert with magic to produce effects that would otherwise require either a true explosive, or a more capable mage.


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## Esudeath (Jun 2, 2019)

In my world, weapons typically have siphons on them that keep the user from burnouts. So my guns would probably be specific to the user in terms of how much firepower they can shoot out of it. It probably has much more power than a regular attack with just using hands but is limited because of said power usage. I don't think everyone could really use one.


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## elemtilas (Jun 3, 2019)

In *The World*, flash powders are known of, and there have actually been a couple now semi-mythical bombardes that were said to have actually been used in battle.  By in large, "firearms" as Americans tend to think of them do not exist.  First, scarcity of iron means the stuff is far too valuable to be used making ordinary weapons. Second, a bronze or brass firearm can only be so big before it becomes too bulky to handle.  A matchlock blunderbuss would probably be about as practical a gun as could be made.  By the time you get a shot fired off, your enemy has already advanced, poked his lance into your brain and moved on.  Guns simply aren't seen as the way forward.


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## Garren Jacobsen (Jun 3, 2019)

elemtilas said:


> In *The World*, flash powders are known of, and there have actually been a couple now semi-mythical bombardes that were said to have actually been used in battle.  By in large, "firearms" as Americans tend to think of them do not exist.  First, scarcity of iron means the stuff is far too valuable to be used making ordinary weapons. Second, a bronze or brass firearm can only be so big before it becomes too bulky to handle.  A matchlock blunderbuss would probably be about as practical a gun as could be made.  By the time you get a shot fired off, your enemy has already advanced, poked his lance into your brain and moved on.  Guns simply aren't seen as the way forward.



Just as an FYI, a lot of cannons made, particularly early ones, were made using bronze. And smith and Wesson made a bronze pistol. Semi automatic 1911. The Bronze 1911 pistol -

And a Kentucky long rifle made of brass. 
6: Early Brass Barrel Kentucky Rifle Dated 1771, Attrib on LiveAuctioneers

I don’t want you running afoul of the gun bloggers they're a tough bunch.


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## elemtilas (Jun 3, 2019)

Garren Jacobsen said:


> Just as an FYI, a lot of cannons made, particularly early ones, were made using bronze. And smith and Wesson made a bronze pistol. Semi automatic 1911. The Bronze 1911 pistol -
> 
> And a Kentucky long rifle made of brass.
> 6: Early Brass Barrel Kentucky Rifle Dated 1771, Attrib on LiveAuctioneers
> ...



I know about bronze cannon (the semi-mythical "bombardes" I mention were indeed cast from bronze).

I didn't know about the bronze 1911, though.  The gun appears to have cast bronze (brastil) frames and other parts.  From the picture, it appears the barrel and hammer and other internal bits are steel.  I'm not sure that would count!  A brass barrelled musket is pretty similar to what could actually be made in this world.

I certainly don't want to run afoul of the gun bloggers, but fact remains, flash powders are used for medicine and fireworks rather than weapons.  There are forces and weapons that can harness them that pretty much put paid to the blunderbuss, anyway.


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