# Extended "Stone Age"



## Swordfry (Apr 10, 2015)

My stories set on my fictional planet begin rather early stages of my civilizations. But then, after evaluating some parts of my future stories I have planned for this planet, I noticed that the civilizations would not have advanced as much as one would think. At least not in Earth terms that we are used to. You see, my fictional planet has very little metal, and the only large amounts reside deep underground. Metal is used only for tools, and even then, only a handful used for hard jobs requiring metal. This, in my opinion, sets the advancement of my civilization back, in our modern Earth terms.

Our stages of civilization here on are mainly based on metal and the advances the use of which brought. My civilizations, however, get along quite well without much metal. One of my races is a forest dwelling race. Their entire culture is based around wood. Not trees, but wood. They chop down many trees and employ more wood in their daily lives than any of my other races. My other main race is a coastal based one who's main resources consist of ones given to them by the sea. Parts of sea creatures, a very wide variety of shells, some beach grass and trees all allow them to live perfectly satisfied, well kept lives. The races of my world would really not know what to do with metal, aside from some very basic things that advanced tool crafting.

However, all of my races are advanced. There are several well developed spoken and written languages, various academics, lots of non-metal tool crafting. There are even some impressive, sizeable structures built by my races too.

So to us, my races would not be classified as Stone, Bronze, or Iron Age races, as it does not make much sense because they have different resources and live in areas with little accessible metal.


Do you think this is believable? A more modern "Stone Age?" Think of a group of civilizations just as advanced as our Medieval era, but built around stone, wood. I would also supplement coral, sea shells, and even body parts of other sea creatures too as they are very plentiful and the second largest race's entire commerce is built around sea resources. Do you think other readers may find this believable?

I have just always liked the idea of a more modern "ancient" or "stone age" set world. Too many stories rely heavily on the Medieval era with metal weapons and armor. How about a world forced to rely on other resources found on Earth, not magical ones instead?

Also, there is very little magic here in my world. It is mostly wild, and there are very few practitioners of it and even they are not great at it. Just for those wondering about this factor.


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## CupofJoe (Apr 11, 2015)

Several American civilisations as well as Asian ones were less reliant on metal than Medieval Europe.
They had alternatives materials and/or alternative needs.
So I think it is very possible to have an "advanced" stone age...
Metal was/is expensive and fairly rare for most I guess. 
I've been in several 14/15C buildings where the only metal has been in the [decorative] nails in the front door.
The only real problem I can see, unless you come up with an analogue material, is in "devices". Metal can be finely worked in to cogs and gears, hinges and joints. It can be smaller, harder, more durable etc than alternative methods we have available. Currently I can't imagine that something with the size and power of a Trebuchet or Wind/Watermill, could be made completely without metal. In both of these there are pivots which take immense stress.


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## Terry Greer (Apr 11, 2015)

I've created metal poor but advanced worlds before - using ceramics as a substitute.
They're not as load bearing and as highfidelity as metals  true - but an advanced ceramic culture (that also knows about laminating composites with resin - which isn't that hard to master) can do wonders. A ceramic blade can have an incredibly sharp edge, laminated wood and resin makes superb armour (often better than metal) and lightweight boats (that's all glassfibre is) - you can even build steam engines out of ceramics.

My Jangada novels are set in such a world - which does have metal - but very small quantities.


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## chrispenycate (Apr 11, 2015)

Remember that for more than half of humanity's history they have not had access to quantities of metal. Biotech, stone and ceramics were the norm - wood, bone, leather, pottery. It is even possible that, without our moon, or with a smaller or more distant one, the Earth's core wouldn't have been enough stirred up to put even the present tiny percentage of heavy metals into the crust, and with a planet containing identical quantities of elements as Earth the only source of readily available metal would be meteoric iron. I've read a theory (I have no idea whether it has since been proved false) that haematite beds, the concentration of iron ore that made the iron age so inevitable, were laid down by iron-using bacteria, much as limestone was made by shellfish, for shellfish's own needs. The metals would be there, as salts in seawater if nothing else, but beyond the technology of primitive societies to refine. 

I would expect the use of biological alternatives to develop faster, and even specifically designed organisms. Se Harrison's 'East of Eden' trilogy, or Brunner's 'The Crucible of Time'.


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## wordwalker (Apr 11, 2015)

Alternately, the iron could be there in quantities similar to our own world--but if copper and tin were rarer and the people had never gotten such a taste for bronze weapons, they'd never have put in the effort to learn to smelt iron. Especially since your world's richer in non-iron materials, and seems to have developed really high-quality stone- and woodworking (or magic?) instead. Also, a rule of thumb is that stone edges are often sharper and better than metal, they just break a lot faster.


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## Terry Greer (Apr 11, 2015)

Though it's well known that even on a metal poor world there are always other sources :

This is an interesting link to eskimos using meteoric iron long before they had access to other sources. It's quite common for meteoric iron to be used in weapons in antiquity.

Meteorite used by Prehistoric Eskimos before Introduction to Iron, Tools and Weapons made from Space Rock, Archeologists Say : News : Headlines & Global News


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## X Equestris (Apr 11, 2015)

If you're looking for real world examples of places without metal, the pre-Colombian Americas are a good place to start.  As far as I remember, there was only one civilization that worked metal (bronze).  Though there was of course the limited access to meteoric iron that is mentioned above.


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## Saigonnus (Apr 11, 2015)

Catapults/Trebuchet might be out of the question, but Ballista might be possible without using metal. Conversely, one might consider other sorts of war machines that wouldn't require metal. I am thinking of the war elephants, or trolls from LOTR that had metal, but it was unnecessary. I am certain you could outfit such critters to serve as battering rams or train them to lob stones.


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## psychotick (Apr 12, 2015)

Hi,

Weren't the Flintstones "the modern stone age family"?

But that aside many cultures have no developed bronze or iron technology, and for a variety of reasons. Access to ore is usually one of them - think of the Maori. But also in order to develop such technology you need free time. Free time requires an abundant and reliable form of food so that you don't have to spend all your free time hunting / gathering. That basically means agriculture.

As to how advanced they can make their technology without access to metals, that's something I'd think is in your hands. But I'd suggest looking up items about paleolithic tribal technology and also the tribes of the pacif and their abilities with stone and bone and wood.

Cheers, Greg.


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## K.S. Crooks (Apr 12, 2015)

I think fighting and warfare is an area that will take extra consideration. With little or no metal weapons will not be as durable. A stone axe or sword cannot be repaired and will be heavier to have the same strength as a metal one. You can substitute in some materials like obsidian, diamonds, shark teeth, etc. to create sharp cutting edges for wooden swords and arrows. Armour could be made of animal skin/leather, possibly with a bamboo weave inside. Or leather with many small pockets where shells or thin stone discs are placed to create a lattice. This will also make fire a more potent weapon.You could use small quantities of metal for key components that are small but needed, such as pins or ball bearings. Animal bone are another good option as they can be preserved in ways to maintain their strength and flexibility. They will also be much lighter than stone and can be used to create weapons and armour. Hope this helps.


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## MineOwnKing (Apr 12, 2015)

If you're not finished just rewrite it. 

I find that if the author is not certain then neither is the reader.

The ancient cultures of the Americas were indeed very advanced but at what cost? Is your world favorable to slave labor in replacement of iron? How much blood and loss of freedom can your novel absorb before it becomes a spotted tiger?


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## X Equestris (Apr 12, 2015)

MineOwnKing said:


> If you're not finished just rewrite it.
> 
> I find that if the author is not certain then neither is the reader.
> 
> The ancient cultures of the Americas were indeed very advanced but at what cost? Is your world favorable to slave labor in replacement of iron? How much blood and loss of freedom can your novel absorb before it becomes a spotted tiger?



The existence of slavery is rather irrelevant to this discussion.  Especially since having iron and bronze did nothing to stop any number of cultures in Eurasia and Africa from holding slaves.


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## Swordfry (Apr 12, 2015)

K.S. Crooks said:


> I think fighting and warfare is an area that will take extra consideration. With little or no metal weapons will not be as durable. A stone axe or sword cannot be repaired and will be heavier to have the same strength as a metal one. You can substitute in some materials like obsidian, diamonds, shark teeth, etc. to create sharp cutting edges for wooden swords and arrows. Armour could be made of animal skin/leather, possibly with a bamboo weave inside. Or leather with many small pockets where shells or thin stone discs are placed to create a lattice. This will also make fire a more potent weapon.You could use small quantities of metal for key components that are small but needed, such as pins or ball bearings. Animal bone are another good option as they can be preserved in ways to maintain their strength and flexibility. They will also be much lighter than stone and can be used to create weapons and armour. Hope this helps.




Yeah I have already put lots of thought into weaponry and warfare. Basically there are no swords. My main race is a wood-centric race that mainly uses staffs and spears. My other main race is a coastal one that mainly uses weapons made from sea animal parts which are very abundant and easily replaced.


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## DeathtoTrite (Apr 12, 2015)

The first big issue, as  some people have said, is sustainable food source for a growing, specialized population. Without metal, having more advanced societies is pretty difficult. Some good examples are the Aztecs, Inca, and Maya. Obsidian and wood were good substitutes, but will obviously fall way short of real weapons. The conquistadors best tools weren't guns or cannon, but germs (somewhat uncontrollable) and good steel, which, since the natives had no body armor, could easily cleave through flesh and bone, leading to the massacre and capture of Atahualpa. 

Metal shortages are a different deal. Japan's a good example.


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## Swordfry (Apr 12, 2015)

DeathtoTrite said:


> The first big issue, as  some people have said, is sustainable food source for a growing, specialized population. Without metal, having more advanced societies is pretty difficult. Some good examples are the Aztecs, Inca, and Maya. Obsidian and wood were good substitutes, but will obviously fall way short of real weapons. The conquistadors best tools weren't guns or cannon, but germs (somewhat uncontrollable) and good steel, which, since the natives had no body armor, could easily cleave through flesh and bone, leading to the massacre and capture of Atahualpa.
> 
> Metal shortages are a different deal. Japan's a good example.



Hmm. Do metal weapons really make that big of a difference in hunting to maintain plenty of food for a large population? With my forest dwelling race, food is very plentiful. There are a whole bunch of birds and other small wild animals in the forest, along with other bigger ones. This race is also omnivorous and consume many different types of vegetation found there too. My coastal race is omnivorous too, but mainly eat meat. There is absolutely no shortage on the wide variety of fish, crustaceans, and other sea life to sustain them. They are faced with a bigger challenge, as more of their prey has actual natural armor. But as I have said before, this race utilizes many different types and sizes of sea shells for some weapons and hunting gear. They are very plentiful, easily replaced, and do a decent enough job of killing the toughest prey.

So I really don't see metal weapons making a very big difference here for hunting.


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## X Equestris (Apr 12, 2015)

Swordfry said:


> Hmm. Do metal weapons really make that big of a difference in hunting to maintain plenty of food for a large population? With my forest dwelling race, food is very plentiful. There are a whole bunch of birds and other small wild animals in the forest, along with other bigger ones. This race is also omnivorous and consume many different types of vegetation found there too. My coastal race is omnivorous too, but mainly eat meat. There is absolutely no shortage on the wide variety of fish, crustaceans, and other sea life to sustain them. They are faced with a bigger challenge, as more of their prey has actual natural armor. But as I have said before, this race utilizes many different types and sizes of sea shells for some weapons and hunting gear. They are very plentiful, easily replaced, and do a decent enough job of killing the toughest prey.
> 
> So I really don't see metal weapons making a very big difference here for hunting.



To sustain large, settled populations, agriculture is almost always a larger part of life than hunting.  So I don't think the weapons used are that important.  Metal tools certainly make agriculture easier, but as we see with the Aztecs, it's quite possible to grow a sufficient amount of food for a large population without metal tools.


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## wordwalker (Apr 13, 2015)

For warfare on the other hand... They'll have light armor (leather) and shields (wood), and spears and bows would probably be the main weapons (or atlatl spear launchers, for any woodcarver who didn't have time to make a bow). Axes and maces would be feasible, but clumsier than they'd be with metal--which is of course the reason swords wouldn't work at all.

(Edit: with wooden shields so much better than most weapons, a shieldwall would probably be the main tactic there. Although, the main thing that finished shieldwall tactics wasn't metal armor, it was horses-- which in turn were limited by pikes.)

Obsidian. The sharpest material in non-industrial history, but also fragile. An obsidian weapon-point, or knife for close-in work, would be a devastating weapon in the right hands, especially against light armor if you can get around that shield. Although you'd have to be rich (or live near the right volcano) to keep replacing your best weapon that way.

(Or: you wanted a world where nobody uses swords yet. Still, obsidian shards make a _wooden_ sword one of the nastiest weapons ever made: the mesoamerican macuahuitl.

Finally... with no other way to make a really high-impact weapon that wasn't ruinously heavy, flails start to look good. We've had a few threads about their problems (unsafe, exhausting, dangerous in packed ranks) but even a wooden ball on a leather strap would smash down or go around shields better than anything else they had.


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