# Writing songs



## TheokinsJ (Jun 10, 2013)

In my fantasy world I thought it might be a cool idea to create a small poem/song, not only as some fun entertainment and world building, but also to tell the lore of my world to the reader without it seeming obvious that I'm spoon-feeding them information. Basically my main character is feasting in a mead hall and she hears a song being sung by a bard that dates back thousands of years and tells the story of one of her ancestors- I thought this might be a cool way to sort of let the reader in on some information about the history of the world and it not be too over-the-top. I have tried studying some poems/songs from Tolkien's work and I'm interested to know if any of you would know any other books where the authors have created their own songs or if you have any information on how to go about doing this.


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## Svrtnsse (Jun 10, 2013)

I can really only recall Tolkien at the moment, but I'm sure it's been done elsewhere. It's an interesting idea, but it may be tricky to pull off.
Putting in the entire text could make for a big chunk of text that may interrupt the flow in a weird way which may not be desirable. Putting in just parts might work but will put a lot of attention on those parts. I'm thinking that if I had a song like that in my story I'd reference the contents of it in description and dialogue rather than putting in the text itself. Something along the lines of:



> Person1 suddenly interrupted the conversation.
> "Quiet, this is my favorite part."
> Person2 looks confused.
> "Favorite part of what?"
> ...


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## CupofJoe (Jun 10, 2013)

David & Leigh Eddings had their character Belgarath [or "Mr Wolf" as he is know at the time] act as a vagabond story teller.
At a winter/yule feast Mr Wolf tells the most amazing story about the creation of the world and the wars between the gods, holding the whole room and especially the young Garion in wrapped attention. It infodumps a lot of backstory and because Mr Wolf/Belgarath uses magic to enhance the story [the sound of snow falling was my favourite] softly introduces us to the power of his magic. 
It is one of the scene in their books that I wish I could steal outright...


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## Jessquoi (Jun 10, 2013)

JK Rowling did a lot of little songs and riddles in her novels which were very entertaining and catchy. There are also very eloquent verses in The Name of the Wind!


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## Scribble (Jun 10, 2013)

Silverlock by John Myers Myers is full of wonderful songs, and I truly recommend the book. I've read it a few times.

Some are bawdy (but tame), some are sad, heroic, etc... you could do worse than borrow from these for style and rhythm.

*Tammuz, Gilgamesh and I*

        I have known both joy and grief, neat, and mixed together
        Cold and Heat I've known, and found both good drinking weather
        Light and Darkness I have known, seldom doubting whether
        Tammuz would return again, when he'd slipped his tether!

        I remember gaudy days when the Year was springing
        Tammuz, Gilgamesh and I, clinking Cups and singing
        Till Ininni sauntered by, skimpy garments clinging
        To her hips, and things like that: Tammuz left us, winging!

        So we welcomed Enkidu when he came to Erech
        He was rough as hickory bark, nothing of the Cleric!
        But his taste in Wine and Ale, THAT was Esoteric!
        And he used a drinking cup that would strain a derrick!

        Khumbaba then felt our strength 'neath the magic Cedars
        And we wrestled Anu's Bull, pride of Heaven's Breeders!
        Thrice we struck, and once he fell, drawing wolves for feeders
        while we strode where drinking men called for expert leaders.

        Tammuz must have joined us there, but he'd just got wedded
        And Ininni (blast the Wench!) hacked him as they bedded
        Such a honeymoon as that, I have always dreaded....
        For a drinking man is...spoiled...once he's been beheaded!

        So we waked him with a will, ale and teardrops pooling
        Then we drank to him for months, while the year was cooling.
        But he came back with the grass! Death was only fooling!
        Tammuz told us: "Fill my Cup! I'm both dry...and drooling!"


*East of Agamemnon*

East of Agamemnon was a city he had sacked,
West of him his heart went home to Greece.
Good and ill wear each a mask that never can be cracked;
He raced from what he thought was war to what he thought was peace.
He was cuckold by his cousin and he'd find his death blow,
But he made them burn the thole pins, and still he called them slow --
He made them brace and bend their backs and row, ho, ho!

East of Ingcel One-Eye were his kin without their lives,
Westward was a chance to square the loss.
Men will win and men will lose, and only Wyrd survives;
He aimed his fleet for Eriu and flitted it across.
He would conquer mighty Conaire, but that he couldn't know,
He only knew that he must strike and he must not be slow --
He made them brace and bend their backs and row, ho, ho!

East of O. van Kortlandt all the world was traced and known,
West of him the land leapt off the map.
Luck or loss, the dice won't speak till after they are thrown;
He stowed his gear and stepped aboard and braved Ginnunga Gap.
He would come back to Communipaw, but that just happened so;
He turned from men to mystery and did not travel slow --
He made them brace and bend their backs and row, ho, ho!


*The River*

From source to mouth there's but one ford -- 
And that cannot be crossed --
Where Ferdiad was gripped and gored;
His best friend won and lost
      The water's red from brink to brink,
      The Morrigan comes down to drink;
      And the river goes on south.

Right close in shore, to ward off cold,
      An angler sucks a jug.
The water seals and gets its hold;
The angler feels and gives a tug.
      Above the ice he's having fits,
      Below the ice a long tail flits;
      For the river takes it south.

Steeped in the vacuum of her dreams,
A mirror's empty till
A man rides through it. Once she gleams
And once she moves, then she is still.
      The filament snaps in the light,
      But yet she is a lovely sight,
      As the river bears her south.

The gold a dragon could not keep
Came to a woman's hand;
Then thieving kinsmen, diving deep,
Found out a safe in sinking sand.
      Dying, they would not tell the place,
      Nor does the water yield a trace,
      As the river sweeps on south. 


*The Ballad of Bowie Gizzardsbane* (a retelling of "The Alamo")

Harsh that hearing for Houston the Raven:
Foes had enfeebled the fortress at Bexar,
Leaving it lacking and looted the while
Hordes were sweeping swift on the land,
Hell-bent to crush him. The cunning old prince
Did not, though, despair at danger's onrushing;
Hardy with peril, he held it, perused it,
Reading each rune of it. Reaching the facts, 
He thumbed through his thanes and thought of the one
Whose guts and gray matter were grafted most neatly.
"Riders!" he rasped, "to race after Bowie!"
"Bowie," he barked when that bearcat of heroes
Bowed to his loved prince, "Bexar must be ours
Or no one must have it. So hightail, burn leather!
Hold me that fortress or fire it and raze it.
Do what you can or else do what you must."

Fame has its fosterlings, free of the limits
Boxing all others, and Bowie was one of them.
Who has not heard of the holmgang at Natchez?
Fifty were warriors, but he fought the best,
Wielding a long knife, a nonesuch of daggers
Worthy of Wayland. That weapon had chewed
The entrails of dozens. In diverse pitched battles
That thane had been leader; by land and by sea
Winning such treasure that trolls, it is said,
Closed hills out of fear he'd frisk them of silver.
Racing now westward, he rode into Bexar,
Gathered the garrison, gave them his orders:
"Houston the Raven is raising a host;
Time's what he asks while he tempers an army.
Never give up this gate to our land.
Hold this door fast, though death comes against us."

The flood of the foemen flowed up to Bexar,
Beat on the dam braced there to contain it.
But Wyrd has no fosterlngs, favors no clients;
Bowie, the war-wise winner of battles,
Laid out by fever, lost his first combat,
Melting with death. Yet the might of his spirit
Kept a tight grip on the trust he'd been given.
"Buy time, my bucks," he told his companions.
"Be proud of the price; our prince is the gainer."
Bold thanes were with him, thirsty for honor,
Schooled well in battle and skilled with all weapons;
Avid for slaughter there, each against thirty,
They stood to the walls and struck for their chieftains,
Houston and Bowie, the bearcat of heroes.

Twelve days they ravaged the ranks of the foemen.
Tens, though, can't harrow the hundreds forever;
That tide had to turn. Tiredly the thanes
Blocked two wild stormings and bled them to death.
The third had the drive of Thor's mighty hammer,
Roared at the walls and rose to spill over,
Winning the fort. But the foemen must pay.
Heroes were waiting them, hardy at killing,
Shaken no whit, though sure they were lost.
Ten lives for one was the tariff for entry;
And no man got credit. Crushed and split skulls,
Blasted off limbs and lathers of blood
Were the money they soughted and minted themselves --
Worth every ounce of the weregild they asked.

Of every eleven, though, one was a hero
Turned to a corpse there. Cornered and hopeless,
They strove while they yet stood, stabbing and throttling,
Meeting the bear's death, dying while fighting.
Chieftains of prowess, not chary of slaying,
Led and fell with them. Alone by the wall,
Travis, the red-maned, the truest of warriors,
Pierced through the pate and pouring out blood,
Kept death marking time, defied it until
His sword again sank, sucking blood from a foeman.
Content then, he ended. So also died Crockett,
Who shaved with a star and stamped to make earthquakes.
Kimball, the leader of loyal riders,
Bonham whose vow was valor's own hallmark.

Crazed by their losses, the conquerors offered
No truce to cadavers; the corpses were stabbed
In hopes that life's spark would be spared to afford them
Seconds on killing. Then some, taking count,
Bawled out that Bowie was balking them still;
Like weasels in warrens they wound through the fort,
Hunting the hero they hated the most.
Least of the lucky, at last some found him,
Fettered to bed by the fever and dying,
Burnt up and shrunken, a shred of himself.
Gladly they rushed him, but glee became panic.
Up from the grip of the grave, gripping weapons,
Gizzardsbane rose to wreak his last slaughter,
Killing, though killed. Conquered, he won.
In brief is the death lay of Bowie, the leader
Who laid down his life for his lord and ring giver,
Holding the doorway for Houston the Raven,
Pearl among princes, who paid in the sequel;
Never was vassal avenged with more slayings!


Or check out the poetry of Yeats, some songs to be found there.

*THE SONG OF WANDERING AENGUS*
             -Yeats

                I went out to the hazel - wood
                Because a fire was in my head
                Cut and peeled a hazel - wand
                Tied a berry to a thread
                And when white moths were on the wing
                And moth - white stars were flickering out
                I dropped the berry in a stream
                And caught a little silver trout..........

                I had but laid it on the bank
                And gone to blow the fire a-flame
                Something rustled in the air
                Something called me by my name!
                It had become a glimmering Girl
                With apple - blossom in her hair
                Who called me by my name, and ran
                And vanished in the brightening air........

                Though I am old, with wandering
                Thru hilly lands, and hollow lands;
                I'll find out where she has gone
                To seek her lips, to take her hands-
                And walk thru long green dappled grass;
                To pluck 'til Time, and times are done:
                The Silver Apples of the Moon;
                The Golden Apples of the Sun...............


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## skip.knox (Jun 10, 2013)

Gotta say, when I see a poem or "song" in a novel, I mostly just pass right by. The bar for such work is very high. It has to be not only as good or better than the underlying narrative (unless being played for comic effect, which is often even harder to pull off), it must be as good as other poetry I have read. So you're in the company of the greats, whether or not you know it.

It's not fair of me, I know. But with the novel, if you've managed to lure me past Page Ten or so, I'm with you for the ride. I'll forgive you minor faults and stumbles. That poem in the middle, though, that comes out of the blue, and I just instinctively judge it like I would any other poem. 

Most times, even if the poems are decent, they are there mainly for the author to show off. I had much fun with Silverlock, but the songs just got annoying. He was already showing off his knowledge of literature and that was fine. I was in for that. The songs broke the rhythm of the narrative. They were rather like someone conversing pleasantly at a party, who from time to time, without rhyme or reason, broke out a magic trick. It sort of doesn't matter how good the trick is, we were having a conversation.

One man's opinion (which phrase ought surely to merit a TLA:  OMO).


-= Skip =-


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## Randy (Jun 13, 2013)

skip.knox said:


> Gotta say, when I see a poem or "song" in a novel, I mostly just pass right by.
> 
> -= Skip =-



In general I would agree with this. However the exception would be a short poem, or part of a poem would catch my eye. While I love Tolkien I know that I would never accept his slow pace from a new author. That actually raises the possibility of using a poem that moves quickly, and is easy to read. When I see poetry I think of my English Literature courses and the use of something that resembles English, but is painful to read.


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## phillipsauthor (Jun 27, 2013)

Another fantasy author who used poems/songs a great deal in his work was Brian Jacques, in his Redwall series. These are aimed at a younger audience, but I remember enjoying reading them a great deal when I was in grade school. I can still remember some of the silly verses and riddles that he wrote, or snatches of them at any rate. 

On the other hand, as mentioned before, I did also tend to skip over the longer poems or songs that were included in the book. I think I enjoyed having them there if I wanted to read them, but I also didn't feel compelled to read them.


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## Androxine Vortex (Jun 29, 2013)

I think the poem or song has to have some signifigance to it or else people might be tempted to skip it. Like there's a scene in one of my stories were a hero dies in battle. His comrades burn him on a pyre and sing "the hero's ode" I think that would count as having some signifigance. Just try not to include them too much, I despised reading sections of LOTR because every page there was a page long song


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## Pat Harris (Jun 29, 2013)

TheokinsJ, 
I love your idea! I've got an "old Earth drinking song" called, "The Mummer's Song," in my 1st novel which somewhat parallels the story - but not too closely so as to give plot secrets away. And an odd song by a weird little alien dwarfish-leprechaunish character that tells part of his backstory. I think songs and poetry can add a lot of class as long as they're done well - _very_ well. Otherwise, I, too, would be tempted to skip over it.

I just wrote an Elvin funeral song for my 2nd novel which I'm translating into the Elvin language I created for the story. I'm discovering it can be even trickier to incorporate a song or poetry in a created fantasy language. Has to be in minute doses so as not to visually and verbally choke the reader - lol.

Write on!


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## wordwalker (Jun 29, 2013)

There are other examples in _Game of Thrones_, that work better in the books than the show. You can catch glimpses of its universal folk song "The Bear and the Maiden Fair" popping up all over the place, and "The Rains of Castamere" any time someone wants show off or flatter the Lannisters (until even some Lannisters get sick of hearing it). These show you don't need a complete song at all, or to show it all in one place-- you can these as symbols of your world's continuity and history, plot shifts, and just how the moment affects how much gets sung and noticed.


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## Foah (Jul 7, 2013)

If you want to create a full fledged song with melody and all, I suggest you read up on some music, melody and song sciences. There's much to be learned in these areas for those who are just beginning to poke around with ideas of writing their own tunes.

For some very easy pointers on this, I'd suggest just googling some tips on it. You'll find pages such as this:
How To Write Songs - How To Write Melodies


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