# BvS: Dawn of Justice (spoilers yo)



## Gryphos (Mar 29, 2016)

So Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice has become one of the more decisive films of the past few years. Some hate it, some love it, some feel it was disappointing, some think it's everything they wanted.

Personally, I probably fall somewhere in the middle. I'm not a fan of numerical scores, but if I had to I'd give the film a 5/10, possibly a 6/10: average. While lacking in many areas, it was saved somewhat by the quality of its action sequences.

One of the main things I liked was Batman. For the most part I think this is a really compelling depiction of the character which focused on his brutality. That sequence where he's taking out the thugs holding Martha Kent is easily my favourite action scene in the film. One of the more controversial decisions the filmmakers made was to have him kill people, because there ain't no way everyone made it out of that car chase alive, and he was straight up blowing up trucks with machine guns. Some people say it's sacrilege, some say it fits with this older Batman who's become disillusioned after years of vigilante-ing. Personally, I can't help but feel it's hypocritical of Batman to hate Superman because he's accidentally caused the deaths of people, while at the same time killing people! I mean, yeah, the people Batman kills aren't exactly 'innocent' per se, but it's still something that should be questioned. But the film never does question it! If Batman's killing was actually explored and elaborated upon (perhaps with a scene of Alfred talking about 'how did it come to this?'), then I would be a-okay with it — in fact I would embrace it as an interesting and original take on the character. As it is, the lack of explanation adds to the film's clumsy storytelling.

As for Doomsday ... nah. He suffers from the syndrome a lot of big tough bad guys suffer from, that being that literally his only purpose is to be a big tough bad guy with no personality. He only enters the film in the final act and therefore there wasn't any time to build a connection with the audience. He's just a featureless villain that can be swapped out for any other big tough bad guy. Thus, there's no emotional payoff once he's defeated. Definitely one of the weakest parts of the film.

Also, I for one am disappointed with the lack of Batman vs Superman. I mean, that's literally the name of the film, and the advertising promised a spectacular battle with creative set pieces, but in the end we got like one fight that wasn't even that great. To be honest, I feel as though the film should have been called 'Dawn of Justice: Batman v Superman' because there was a massive focus on trying to establish the DCEU, imo to the detriment of the film. The most egregious example of this would be that seriously out of place dream with (I think) the Flash in the portal doing some blatant future film foreshadowing.

But, as I said, what stops this film being 'bad' is the quality of the action and a few genuinely great scenes. While I have mixed feelings on Jessie Eisenberg as Lex Luthor, the 'Grandma's peach tea' setup and payoff was excellent.

So yeah, with all the fantastic potential this concept had, I can very much say I was disappointed with the film. But at the same time, I do have to admit that I was entertained, and I certainly don't regret watching it.


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## evolution_rex (Mar 29, 2016)

I haven't seen it, but I'm afraid to. It sounds intolerably bad and I think it'll make me repeatedly cringe. Worst of all, I feel embarrassed I was ever excited for it. I try not to judge a movie before seeing it, but I know all the details and spoilers of the movie now and nothing about it sounds good. The exact moment I dropped the movie was when Doomsday showed up in one of the trailers. I knew then what kind of movie it was going to be and I had no interest in it. I'll probably end up seeing it, but I won't be happy about it.

I had honestly hoped that it'd improve on Man of Steel's faults, a movie I thought was just watchable enough to be decent.


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## Penpilot (Mar 29, 2016)

I'd give it a similar score 5/10.

What they get right, they really get right. I thought Batman was the best thing about the film. But when they got things wrong they were way off. Jessie Eisenberg's performance as Lex Luthor was completely off key. He was more riddler/joker than a ruthless businessman/genius.

Someone pointed out that Jessie Eisenberg's performance in the Social Network was more Lex Luthor than his performance in BvS. As I write this I can't help but notice that the title to the movie could be just called BS.

Overall the movie is so joyless. It totally misses the mark of who Superman and his mother are. Where Batman is night, Superman is supposed to be day, and he's anything but in this movie. This isn't Batman v Superman. It's Batman v SuperBatman. Dark Knight vs. Darker Knight. 

And gosh, Superman's parents are a bunch of a-holes. They're supposed to be his examples, the ones who helped form his sense of right from wrong. But when Superman talks to them, in this movie and in Man of Steel, they pretty much say F-Humanity. He doesn't owe them a damn thing. WTF? It's no wonder he's such a dour prick.

To me, this movie suffers from them trying to play catch up with Marvel. They try and jamb in so many disjoint elements just so they can set up a Justice League film and it hurts this movie quite a lot.

I thought Wonder Woman and her parts could have been great if they were in a different movie. Don't get me wrong, I though WW was really good, but her parts... it's like cutting out the middle of an awesome movie and then splicing it into another awesome movie with no transitions. You just end up ruining both films, not creating one that's doubly awesome. 

And finally, the cameos for the other Justice League heroes, what a joke. The cameos are of WW getting an email and watching some found footage. Of all the ways to cameo them, that has got to be one of the worst/most boring ways to do it. And is just another example of them shoehorning in stuff that just doesn't belong.

Marvel took their time to build up to the Avengers. First they had Ironman, Hulk, Thor, Captian America individual films, etc. And they're like 15+ movies into their cinematic universe. DC should just give up and stop trying to catch up because they can't. The lead is too great. Just take it slow and do it right and they'll get to the finish line too. Because each failed film puts them two steps back.

But then again, this movie made a ton of money.


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## ChasingSuns (Apr 5, 2016)

Gryphos said:


> As for Doomsday ... nah. He suffers from the syndrome a lot of big tough bad guys suffer from, that being that literally his only purpose is to be a big tough bad guy with no personality. He only enters the film in the final act and therefore there wasn't any time to build a connection with the audience. He's just a featureless villain that can be swapped out for any other big tough bad guy. Thus, there's no emotional payoff once he's defeated. Definitely one of the weakest parts of the film.




I would agree, except as far as I can remember, that's how Doomsday is in the comics as well. That's why I didn't have a problem with it in his case.


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## Miskatonic (Apr 17, 2016)

A perfect example of a film with potential that was trying to do too much and suffered because of it. I give it a 6/10 before nitpicking it to death. After that it's probably a 5/10. It's worth watching once. 

I have to admit I was dead set against Affleck playing Batman when he was announced but to my surprise he nailed the character.


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## Garren Jacobsen (Aug 21, 2016)

Okay, just finished watching this.Here is my bullet point take on it:

Pros:
Fight scenses
Batflek
SFX

Cons:
Missed opportunities for jokes:
 Like this one: Whom do you serve? - YouTube
The nonsensical nature of why Supes and bats are fighting
Stop the damn dream sequences
Crappy jokes (she with you?)
Weak villainous motivations
Ughh, Doomsday
pronoun game
Oh look another dream sequence.
Heath Ledger Joker inspired Lex. (So dumb)
Forgot one: The Superman v Doomsday kamehameha lock (reference: Dragonball Z Goku and Vegeta beam struggle - YouTube)
Forgot another: Supes had a free shot to stab Doomy in the head and decided to...stab him in the lung. Deserved what he got.
I give this maybe a 6/10.


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## Legendary Sidekick (Aug 22, 2016)

I'm going to add a con: Supes stabbed Doomsday in the lung.

What the hell is Superman doing stabbing anyone in the lung? That's not the Superman I grew up with. The Superman I grew up with is like a Boy Scout minus the Boy Scout knife. Minus the knife because Superman doesn't stab!

...and why the lung, anyway? Is it the x-ray vision? "I can see your lung, so STAB!" Yeah, he yells stab as he stabs. Why not? We can have him swear, act macho when he's Clark Kent, hide in outer space for five years to avoid paying child support... out-of-character for Supes? Outdated concept.


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## ChasingSuns (Oct 23, 2016)

Legendary Sidekick said:


> I'm going to add a con: Supes stabbed Doomsday in the lung.
> 
> What the hell is Superman doing stabbing anyone in the lung? That's not the Superman I grew up with. The Superman I grew up with is like a Boy Scout minus the Boy Scout knife. Minus the knife because Superman doesn't stab!
> 
> ...and why the lung, anyway? Is it the x-ray vision? "I can see your lung, so STAB!" Yeah, he yells stab as he stabs. Why not? We can have him swear, act macho when he's Clark Kent, hide in outer space for five years to avoid paying child support... out-of-character for Supes? Outdated concept.



Superman killed Doomsday in the comics too though. Several times. Along with Zod, Doomsday is one of the only characters that he has killed in the comics.

Also, I'm not sure why people were so upset about Batman killing people. Batman has killed tons of people in the comics, and even used to carry a gun. It was Nolan who really pushed the whole idea of Batman not killing, and people just kinda assumed that it's always been like that.


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## CupofJoe (Oct 24, 2016)

I've got the "Ultimate Edition" and I can't give an honest appraisal of the film as I have tried to watch it twice and fallen asleep both times. Maybe that says enough.


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## Penpilot (Oct 28, 2016)

Reaver said:


> Sure does CoJ... The "Ultimate Edition" is little more than a lame attempt to ride the coattails of Deadpool's success and popularity by falsely assuming that the "R" rating is what makes it so good.  Unless WB and DC get rid of Hack Snyder, I fear that The Justice League will suffer the same fate as MoS and BvS.



Apparently, from what I heard, they just added more more Lex Luthor into the movie. Yeah that's exactly what I didn't want.

Some reviewers say, they fixed some things, but broke others. Like fix one thing but break two more.

Like I said in my Supergirl thread, if they want to see how to capture the spirit of what Superman should be, they should just look at the Supergirl TV show. It's not perfect, and there are a few things that can be criticised about it, but the one thing IMHO they can't, is the fun factor. It's a fun show, with characters I honestly love spending time with.


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