# Interesting oddity



## ThinkerX (Oct 23, 2016)

From 'Flogging the Quill:'

Flogging the Quill



> Here are the top 10 most popular fiction genres from QueryTracker
> 1.Young Adult
> 2.Fantasy
> 3.Literary Fiction
> ...



Top 10 Genres | QueryTracker

http://www.therichest.com/rich-list/which-5-book-genres-make-the-most-money/

So I guess the way to make money as author is to write porn?   

Or, failing that, Crime/Mystery stories - but are these equivalent to the 'Thrillers/Suspense' stories in the first list?

I also agree that 'Young Adult,' 'Middle Grade,' and 'Children's' are broad category's that require further subdivision.


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## Chessie (Oct 23, 2016)

Erotica is still good, even better yet is romance. Those genres are diverse, with hungry readers and much room for variation. YA and MG are not genres, and it annoys me when they're categorized as such. They are markets, audiences. Btw...many of the Indies I know doing well for themselves write romance or erotica or Scifi. A lot of Sci fic and paranormal romance is hot these days (Urban fantasy, too).


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## ThinkerX (Oct 23, 2016)

Hmm...

I wrote one 'erotic' story as a break from a series of especially bloody scenes in the WIP and various short stories.  More of a gigantic out of control party (thousands of sailors on shore leave) than anything romantic.


I wrote a second one as a sequel to the first: more or less normal country girl claims her deceased husbands business in the city - but what she thought was a seedy dockside tavern was actually a large brothel.  Hijinks ensue.  

Started to write a third this summer, quit partway because...plot problems and I'm not that kind of writer.


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## TheCatholicCrow (Oct 23, 2016)

ThinkerX said:


> So I guess the way to make money as author is to write porn?
> 
> Or, failing that, Crime/Mystery stories - but are these equivalent to the 'Thrillers/Suspense' stories in the first list?



Not necessarily ... Thriller/Suspense is usually about a set of characters in the middle of a crime (being stalked, framed, trying to stop espionage, etc.) and the character must find their way through/ rush against the clock. In Mystery, if it doesn't start straight out with a body/crime, it'll occur some time in the first act & the rest is all about uncovering who did it. The MC may face some danger but it's usually not as high stakes or, at least, the question we should ask is who did it rather than will the MC make it alive... Thriller/Suspense is more about inducing anxiety in the reader while (as I understand it) Mystery is about mistrust & questioning which of the characters did it.   

Crime is one of those all encompassing descriptions that can include both Mysteries (be it Cozy a la Agatha Christie or hardboiled a la Raymond Chandler) and Suspense/Thrillers ... it doesn't really matter as long as Crime is somehow a main feature of the story but you usually see Mystery/Crime together and Thriller/Suspense together as separate categories. It's a bit like Spec Fic though where there are different genres (technically) but there's also a great deal of overlap, blend, and joint readership. Usually, it's split into the 2 categories though. 

Also ... there's different genre conventions & subcategories for each. (There are Psychological, Political, Military Thrillers & gaining popularity in recent years, the so-called Domestic Thriller). The two main branches of Mystery are, as stated above, Hard & Soft Boiled (gritty vs granny). Some Mysteries even include knitting patterns and recipes ... clearly not  the same audience as the readers of Tom Clancy but it's not always so clear where a story belongs between the two.   

At least, that's my understanding.

Part of the reason for Mysteries being profitable is the prominence of series & the general interest of the older generations (who, once retired, seem to have a bit more time to dedicate to reading).


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## Chessie (Oct 23, 2016)

Cozies are pretty popular these days.


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## ThinkerX (Oct 24, 2016)

TheCatholicCrow said:


> Not necessarily ... Thriller/Suspense is usually about a set of characters in the middle of a crime (being stalked, framed, trying to stop espionage, etc.) and the character must find their way through/ rush against the clock. In Mystery, if it doesn't start straight out with a body/crime, it'll occur some time in the first act & the rest is all about uncovering who did it. The MC may face some danger but it's usually not as high stakes or, at least, the question we should ask is who did it rather than will the MC make it alive... Thriller/Suspense is more about inducing anxiety in the reader while (as I understand it) Mystery is about mistrust & questioning which of the characters did it.
> 
> Crime is one of those all encompassing descriptions that can include both Mysteries (be it Cozy a la Agatha Christie or hardboiled a la Raymond Chandler) and Suspense/Thrillers ... it doesn't really matter as long as Crime is somehow a main feature of the story but you usually see Mystery/Crime together and Thriller/Suspense together as separate categories. It's a bit like Spec Fic though where there are different genres (technically) but there's also a great deal of overlap, blend, and joint readership. Usually, it's split into the 2 categories though.
> 
> ...



That, pretty much, was my understanding.  

I was wondering if Thrillers/Suspense in the first list being lumped in with Mysteries/Crime in the second, much as Fantasy and Science Fiction were separate in the first list and combined in the second.


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## Russ (Oct 24, 2016)

Thrillers/suspense often get lumped in with mystery in some lists.  Despite that they are distinctly different genres both for marketing and structural/convention reasons.

The question of authors making money is always a fun one.

Lee Childs like to say that the difference between a mystery writer and a thriller writer is a zero on the royalty check.

Lists like that can be a little misleading, because there are really two different questions you might be thinking about.

The first question is how much sales are being produced in the field.  In that case there is no doubt that romance/erotica makes a great deal of money, and if done well can be very lucrative.  I have friends making a very, very good living writing/publishing in these fields.  

The second, and for the individual author more important question, is how much is each author/title making in the field.  There are a lot of romance books that come out each year.  I don't have numbers at hand but I would bet that in the world of traditional publishing that romance/erotica puts out ten times as many titles as does say Thrillers.  So authors may not be making as much per title as you do writing in other genres until they hit it big.

My general perception of the romance/erotic field is that it is also a field where whales play a big role. That is, there are a few people making a lot of money in it, and lots and lots making not very much. 

In fact if you really care about these numbers and how they might impact your career you have to look at them in the long term and work hard to understand how one off super successful books throw things out of whack.  For instance in the period when 50 shades was big, it was such a large phenenoma that it throws the numbers for almost the whole industry out of whack and can give a false impression.  Harry Potter or Hunger Games or the Martian etc will do the same.  Then you need to figure out how it impacts you.   Is the whale good for you or bad for you?

Of course all of this presumes that you simply can write whatever is popular at the time.  That first presumes you have a talent for writing in many genres at will (pretty rare I suspect) and that you can write stuff and get it published quickly enough to still catch the wave before it ends.  Most people will tell you that chasing the market as a writer is a poor strategy.

While I have no doubt that there is plenty of money to be made in romance, a number of recent market studies have concluded that the broad "Thriller" book category (mystery, thriller, suspense, romantic suspense) is the largest, most important category in trade publishing in terms of sales, performance and profitability.


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## Chessie (Oct 24, 2016)

Russ, you make very good points. However, your last sentence...err...let's just say that trade houses aren't the only ones putting books out there for readers to buy. Maybe thrillers are the most important in trade, but what about Indie publishing? I'd say the majority of Indie authors on Kboards and on the private FB groups I mix in, that are making money, are writing romance. Sorry if that sentence is a bit weird lol I don't feel like rewriting it. 

Besides that, your post is laced with truths that anyone considering publication, whether trade or Indie, should educate themselves on. And honestly, isn't it great that people have a choice now of how to publish? Oh, and I do think there's also the niche categories to consider. For example, using 50 Shades, erotica has been around for ages. I remember giggling my way through the erotica section as a 20 something barista when I worked next to a bookstore. It's been ages. SO then, when 50 Shades came out there was this huge boom of erotica. Once she stopped publishing books, or in between books, what do you think those readers were missing? More erotica, of course! So guess who fills in those little pockets of need? Indies. I don't so much know about trade...you might be better able to answer that one.


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## Russ (Oct 24, 2016)

Chesterama said:


> Russ, you make very good points. However, your last sentence...err...let's just say that trade houses aren't the only ones putting books out there for readers to buy. Maybe thrillers are the most important in trade, but what about Indie publishing? I'd say the majority of Indie authors on Kboards and on the private FB groups I mix in, that are making money, are writing romance. Sorry if that sentence is a bit weird lol I don't feel like rewriting it.
> 
> Besides that, your post is laced with truths that anyone considering publication, whether trade or Indie, should educate themselves on. And honestly, isn't it great that people have a choice now of how to publish? Oh, and I do think there's also the niche categories to consider. For example, using 50 Shades, erotica has been around for ages. I remember giggling my way through the erotica section as a 20 something barista when I worked next to a bookstore. It's been ages. SO then, when 50 Shades came out there was this huge boom of erotica. Once she stopped publishing books, or in between books, what do you think those readers were missing? More erotica, of course! So guess who fills in those little pockets of need? Indies. I don't so much know about trade...you might be better able to answer that one.



I quoted the stats on trade because that is all I  have 

There are lots of ways to make money on the indie side as well, but since it is not well tracked it is hard to make generalizations about or spot and study the trends.  One of my acquaintances is now making a consistent high 6 figure income from indy romance/erotica as a writer, and a close friend of mine is now running what you might call a maverick on line erotica publisher with a novel and creative sales model and is making very good money as well.  I just am always cautious making statements about the indy side because it is so mercurial.  But there is no doubt, done properly you can make a very good living publishing indy work. 

Erotica is a prime spot of indie/e sales because people can be a little shy to bring those "hot" novels up to the check out counter.  IT is a natural fit for that world.  My anecdotal evidence and experience make me think erotica is a very profitable and popular way to make money in indy writing...but I could not point to a study or strong evidence to prove it.

Chasing trends is still tricky though, and I believe readers can spot someone who really doesn't have the passion (pardon the pun) for what they are writing.


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## Chessie (Oct 24, 2016)

Agreed about trends! That would be hard. I know there are writers out there who do it but I could never spend hours upon hours of my precious time writing in a genre that didn't inspire me. Writing is hard enough. Publishing is even tougher. I wouldn't be able to do it if I didn't care about my material.


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