# Euthanasia - Could you let a loved one pass?



## Justme (Jun 3, 2012)

I've heard many people talk of the sanctity of life, but I was wondering if life was sacred for the sake of being so, or is the quality of that life be just as important. I remember a few years ago about a women that was brain dead and was on life support and a feeding tube for decades. The husband wanted to take her off the machines and let her pass in a dignified manner and her parents were fighting him. 

*Would remaining alive by machine, with no hope of ever becoming conscious be living a life or would that be simply existing? Would turning off life support be cruelty or would it be humane?*

*If it came to you, would you place "No Resuscitate" clause in your will and If a family member (daughter or son) had done so, in their will, could you pull the plug on them? Could you give them the dignified death they had wished for when the time came?*


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## Kelise (Jun 3, 2012)

Euthanasia was legal where I live until not too long ago, they plan to bring it back within another few years (so they say). 

No one in my family is religious, all I've asked are in favour of euthanasia.


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## Kit (Jun 3, 2012)

There comes a point where you WISH you were dead- or are not even coherent enough to be able to wish it. In that place, with no reasonable hope of returning from it, I'd rather just go.


We had a guy in our hospital a couple of years ago. Mid-30's, professional, family; he had a minor wound that got infected with the "flesh eating bacteria". For weeks, he got worse and worse, went into a coma, and he was just slowly consumed piece by piece. There was no reasonable (or unreasonable) hope of recovery- we all knew he was going to die.  The bacteria was in his blood and had colonized every bit of his body. His family was into that "sanctity of life" thing and wouldn't let him go. It was horrible to watch. Every day, when we would come to work, we'd ask with dread if that poor guy was still alive- what his latest labs looked like, and what else they'd hacked off him (they amputated another piece of him every few days). We were all relieved when what was left of him finally died. I'll never forget him. It's hard to imagine what value anyone would see in going through that, or putting a family member through it.


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## Telcontar (Jun 3, 2012)

I definitely believe people should have the right to decide when to die. If I manage to get old enough to where it becomes a possibility, I do plan to make sure my family members know my thoughts and beliefs on the subject so I'm not kept lingering on for no reason. Even in cases like unreversible dementia I'm not sure it's worth it to 'stick around.' Hopefully by the time it's a problem, medical science will have a better grip on how to treat it...


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## Kit (Jun 3, 2012)

It's a possibility EVERY DAY- you could get hit by a bus today, so make sure your family knows your wishes. Better yet, a living will.


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## Kailarthas (Jun 3, 2012)

I think because life IS precious, euthanasia should be allowed. It's absurd that we can decide everything about our lives except when to end it. If I am attached to tubes and machines, and my brain is done, I am dead. My personality, my being is dead. All that's left is a shell, a husk of flesh. That is not life.


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## Justme (Jun 3, 2012)

Has anyone ever seen the Movie Solient Green? There is a very wonderful scene where the main character's friend goes into a place where they assist you in ending your life. What happens after that is an all time shocker. If you haven't seen the movie I wont ruin it for you.


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## Reaver (Jun 3, 2012)

*Sci-fi classic*

*SOLIENT GREEN**[SUP]tm [/SUP]IS** PEOPLE!!!*


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## Justme (Jun 3, 2012)

Reaver said:


> *SOLIENT GREEN**[SUP]tm [/SUP]IS** PEOPLE!!!*


*

Spoiler!* LOL


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## Steerpike (Jun 3, 2012)

I agree that adults should have the right to decide when and how they die. I think I would be able to comply with the wishes of loved ones in this regard, though when it comes to children I just don't know. I hope never to be faced with the situation.


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## gavintonks (Jun 3, 2012)

there was a woman recently who was removed from the machine to die and she woke up and a guy who was in a comma for 20 years before he woke up
so many issues but I believe if it is your time you die no matter what, and if it is not then you carry on


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## Ophiucha (Jun 3, 2012)

Everybody I've asked about it - my parents and husband included - have said to let them die if there's no hope. I've said the same. I think a living will is valuable, though, because no matter what we say while we're all well, I could see my husband in particular having difficulty pulling the plug. They're mourning for you before your heart stops beating, and being asked to - basically - kill you... it's best to have it in writing, I think. For the sake of my loved ones' peace.

But yes, I'm in favour of euthanasia. Doubly so in countries where life support isn't paid for by the government or if there's a cap on the insurance, which there usually is. Keeping them alive with no hope of recovery on their remaining money or their family's dollar is just cruel to the surviving loved ones.


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## The Blue Lotus (Jun 7, 2012)

Justme said:


> I've heard many people talk of the sanctity of life, but I was wondering if life was sacred for the sake of being so, or is the quality of that life be just as important. I remember a few years ago about a women that was brain dead and was on life support and a feeding tube for decades. The husband wanted to take her off the machines and let her pass in a dignified manner and her parents were fighting him.
> 
> *Would remaining alive by machine, with no hope of ever becoming conscious be living a life or would that be simply existing? Would turning off life support be cruelty or would it be humane?*
> 
> *If it came to you, would you place "No Resuscitate" clause in your will and If a family member (daughter or son) had done so, in their will, could you pull the plug on them? Could you give them the dignified death they had wished for when the time came?*




Complicated questions, In short my answer is yes I can do it. 

I don't think forcing someone to live in such a way is anything less than uncool. 
I have a DNR on file, I carry a copy in my hand bag- I don't want to live my life as a carrot stick. I don't expect my family to understand but when you are told as a teen that you are living on borrowed time... It tends to put things in a new light. 
I lived, I loved, I cried and I died not a big deal I don't have many regrets, anything I'd want to fix can't be fixed because you can't rewrite history. (As much as I'd like to in a very short list of situations.)

If it is my time to go it's time to GO no ifs ands or buts about it. I don't want to linger I don't want the handful of people I give a chit about to have to see that. Heck If I get to the point where I can't care for myself I HOPE my besty will be kind enough to pull the trigger for me. 

If my family member is facing the above situation and they told me, as my Grandfather and Father have, that they do not want to live like that then yes, I 100% can pull that plug, hold their hand and let them go knowing they were loved enough to be set free.

We put down beloved dogs and cats when they are suffering or in pain... why can't we do the same for people? We are just animals of a higher order after all.


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## Hypervorean (Jun 7, 2012)

The Blue Lotus said:


> We put down beloved dogs and cats when they are suffering or in pain... why can't we do the same for people? We are just animals of a higer order after all.



This is a thing I have often wondered about myself. Sometimes it seems to me the best thing would be to look at things perfectly rationally, even though that may be very hard indeed in cases like this.

To me it just doesn’t make sense that anyone would even consider keeping people alive when all their life value is clearly gone. It only serves to keep the family in a state where they are not able to move on, and to drain the money from whoever is paying for it. How does that benefit anyone?

I agree that I would definitely be able to pull the plug if it happened to one of my close ones, and I would wish that  if it was me they would do the same without hesitation.


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## The Blue Lotus (Jun 7, 2012)

Hypervorean said:


> To me it just doesn’t make sense that anyone would even consider keeping people alive when all their life value is clearly gone. It only serves to keep the family in a state where they are not able to move on, and to drain the money from whoever is paying for it. How does that benefit anyone?



I think I understand at least in part why some people make the other decision. 
Sometimes it's religion, they pray for miracles etc. Sometimes it's out of love that they hold out hope for even the smallest of chances and lastly they grasp at straws hoping that science will advance fast enough to save their loved one.


Perhaps I'm rational to the point of being cold, as I have on many occasions been called. I don't let many things bother me, life is life death is just that I don't think there is heaven or a hell but that is a topic for another time and place. 


Finacially speaking I'm sorry but as much as I love my mother or dislike her dependong on her mood swing at that time.

She thinks God will come to her rescue, so never pull that plug. I told her that she needs better insurance then because, I can not foot the bill for her machinery, and my sister has about as much chance of graduating and going to college thus allowing her to have a decent job as I do of becomeing a parrot, and my little bother is lucky to have a roof over his head but always seems to find the cash for his pot. >.> again whole other topics, the point being I can't afford it and her insurance caps out at 1 mil. Sorry mom I love you and all that jazz but I can't afford to keep you pluged in kiddo... 


The fact that I have stated as much caused her to leave someone else in charge of her "being" should something happen; which I can live with. It's her choice, but she said she could never pull my plug, which irritated me a good deal because unlike her I am not asking anyone to go out of their way for me. Sign the paper, toss my carcas in the fire take the ash and drop kick it into the ocean, have a beach party and if you need to, get wasted. ( I do prefer y'all roast some marshmellows for me  @ sunset but I won't know if you do or not so I won't care. )

I see no point in tears over the loss of life, the only tears I shed are out of anger, pain, happiness or regret.

I regreted not having the chance to make things right with Grams before she passed, I cried for about 5 mins long after the funeral. People thought I was cold and unfeeling. I was labled a "B*%[email protected]"  for not crying... once I cried a little everyone was perfectly happy again... I don't get that but oh well. 

Bottom line, do what you want but don't impose your system of thinking, I won't even call them beliefs at this point, on others. 

It's not ok to commit suicide, yet it's not ok to seek professional help? 

It's ok to put a dollar value on life, yet it's not ok to end a life once that cap has been reached?

Life is full of odd things just like this. 
I suppose that is what makes it interesting?


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## gavintonks (Jun 7, 2012)

your heart can be removed from your chest and you can be kept alive, the issue is not life, but the quality of life, are you capable of living or are you just a piece of living meat - there was a brilliant book I read how the souls of the people in catatonic states were trapped in places, cannot remember author or title but brilliant story


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## Penpilot (Jun 7, 2012)

Logically I think I could do it, but one never knows until faced with something like this. I hope I never have to. But I do believe there are worse things than death. No matter what you do or do not believe in, death is either an end or a new beginning, and either way its an end to suffering, so why stay around. But I would stipulate to family in a living will to be light on trigger finger and keep the organ vultures away until sure I'm done with my organs.


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## Devor (Jun 7, 2012)

I think people should take a moment to reflect on the degrees of the question before posting broad statements about it.  There's "pulling the plug," and then there's "physician assisted suicide."  There's removing life support, and there's removing feeding tubes.  There's brain dead with "no hope," and there's brain activity with "no idea."  There's old men laying in bed strapped to a dozen machines, and there's young people in comas with a body that's fine and a brain that's not.  There's grieving family wanting to end the misery, and there's hospital staff making a budget decision with the life an orphan.

But I only mean to make you think.  I don't really mean to state an opinion - except maybe to say that such an opinion would be complex and nuanced, almost case-by-case, and not easy to articulate.


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## The Blue Lotus (Jun 7, 2012)

Devor, 

I'm sure there are people out there who paint things with narrow or rather large brushes.
I can not speak for anyone else, I simply stand by what I want which is I do not want machines to do my living for me. Had I been allowed to have my way I’d be gone already.

I was told many years ago that my heart was bad. They wanted to do surg right way and I told my mother I did not want it. I was 14 and thus over ruled. Which I still think is silly. It is my body and I made the decision after getting all the facts, I'll need a new heart someday but I can't get on the list until this one gives up totally and I'm hooked to machines that do everything for me and by then it will be a day by day thing. This could happen at any moment, heck I could be on the table and then bang... everything goes to pot. I wanted to live what ever time I had happy and not have to worry about all that...

The thought of having to go through that knowing what I know seemed sick and in many ways sadistic.


Like I said when you are told as a teen that "today might very well be your last", and that" in all honesty (they) have no idea how on earth (you) made it that long", changes how you look at things a little.

I see life as a giant beautiful puzzle, one where we all have a handful of pieces that fit together in many different ways.

I don't want to linger and cause money issues for the people I love; I don't want them to cry about my demise for days, weeks, or even years!

No I want my end to be short and sweet and filled with all the love, peace and strength that me and my pieces can give to all the others connected to me.

It is not the right decision for everyone, I literally do not want any assistance when it comes to my heart. I stopped seeing the cardiologist over a decade ago for that reason. I simply do not want to know.

A few years ago I broke my arm pretty badly (In 10 places) and while in the hosp my heart was doing all kinds of crazy things. The dr's wanted to run tests and pump me full of meds and lord only knows what else. I refused. I think they thought I was too doped up to make that decision on my own and deferred to my husband who said "I am not going to answer you ask her!" For all his faults the man is pretty smart. We had that conversation before I went in, the what IF conversation, and I gave him my copy of my DNR. He was upset but he at least respected my wishes.

I live everyday like it is my last. I try very hard to touch the lives (Puzzle pieces) near mine in a good way... If my clock expires tonight I will go knowing I did everything I could to love everyone in the world, and hope that they can at least find it in their hearts to forgive my short comings.


I can only hope that those who make an opposing decision are as happy with their own decisions as I know I am.


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## gavintonks (Jun 9, 2012)

I am sure most people would not think twice for mother in laws, my mother was a mother in law from hell, sue lots of people would have pulled the plug without hesitation hahhhhha 

then there is medicle insurance which is the only reason people are left on machines, no body no payments


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## Benjamin Clayborne (Jun 9, 2012)

Justme said:


> *Would remaining alive by machine, with no hope of ever becoming conscious be living a life or would that be simply existing? Would turning off life support be cruelty or would it be humane?*



If someone's brain has been damaged to the point where the information comprising their personality and memories are lost (e.g. not even hypothetical super-advanced medical technology could restore them), then they literally are just a bag of meat, and the person you knew is already lost forever. In that case, yeah, I'd pull the plug as quickly as possible just to get it over with.

If the person's just in a coma from which they might theoretically awake, then no. As long as there's still a chance, I wouldn't do it. (Unless they had a DNR order for that exact situation, in which case you have to respect their wishes.) I mean, I like to think I'd do what they wanted, but you can't really know unless it happens.


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## Steerpike (Jun 9, 2012)

If a person might awake, it is a tough call to make. Even people diagnosed as being in a persistent vegetative state have awakened, which supposedly isn't possible. The uncertainty makes these decisions difficult.

On the other hand, I think a competent adult should be able to make her own decision, including assisted suicide, and that goes even if they are healthy in my view.


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## gavintonks (Jun 10, 2012)

imagine if people are waking up because the dead have stolen the vegetative bodies?


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## Reaver (Jun 14, 2012)

Benjamin Clayborne said:


> If someone's brain has been damaged to the point where the information comprising their personality and memories are lost (e.g. not even hypothetical super-advanced medical technology could restore them), then they literally are just a bag of meat, and the person you knew is already lost forever. In that case, yeah, I'd pull the plug as quickly as possible just to get it over with.
> 
> If the person's just in a coma from which they might theoretically awake, then no. As long as there's still a chance, I wouldn't do it. (Unless they had a DNR order for that exact situation, in which case you have to respect their wishes.) I mean, I like to think I'd do what they wanted, but you can't really know unless it happens.



Says the android with the supercomputer for a brain who has a lifespan of like a million years or something.


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