# Is there anyone here who didn't go to college whose life turned out okay?



## Deleted member 4265 (Jan 25, 2016)

[Post Removed]


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## kennyc (Jan 25, 2016)

I went twice.   I dropped out the first time after about 6 years. Fell back on my love of radios/electronics and got a First Class FCC Certification and went into commercial radio repair/maintenance work. I later went back and got an Electrical Engineering and Computer Science degree.

There are many well paying jobs that don't require degrees, particularly in the electronics/computer and health-care fields.

My son, got into law enforcement/state troop work and loves it, but it does have its dangers.

some links:

Best Jobs Without a College Degree 2015-Kiplinger
Ã¢â‚¬”¹The 9 best jobs for people without a college degree - CBS News
The Nation's Best Jobs If You Don't Have A College Degree | CareerCast.com

Many creative people love what they do - Artists, Musicians, etc.
the problem is often being able to live on what you make moneywise.


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## skip.knox (Jan 25, 2016)

I went to college straight out of high school (great movie: Straight Outta High School). Went one semester and quit for two years. When I went back, I ate it up and didn't stop until I had a PhD. 

But you may also be looking for a Quit and Didn't Come Back story. For that, look no further than any number of highly successful entrepreneurs. Or, indeed, a great many perfectly happy working stiffs.

College is great, but there are three prerequisites: time, money, and attitude. If you don't have the time, then college will never be more than something you want desperately to be over. If you don't have the money, you may well enjoy college but will go so deeply into debt you may spend more years regretting college than you did enjoying it. Finally, if you go to college more to "become" something than to learn, you will graduate, make money, yet still have wasted your time.

I have lots and lots of students who are in their fifties or even older, who are returning to college with the right combination of the above, and they're loving it. You've got time. Don't stress. Don't worry about what other people say. Including me.


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## Heliotrope (Jan 25, 2016)

My sister dropped out twice, then moved to Dubai to work as a flight attendant for Emerates for a few years. She was paid to travel the world. She finally went back to school when she turned 30 and is doing fine.


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## Incanus (Jan 25, 2016)

Interesting question.

As far as I can tell, judging by what I interpret as American standards—I eminently qualify as a ‘loser’.  I don’t make much money and I have no wife or children.  I don’t own a house.  I have no college degrees (I took a few community college classes for fun, like writing and music).

The thing is, I deliberately don’t do the whole ‘rat-race’ or ‘keeping up with the Jonses’ kind of lifestyle.  Don’t much care for any of it; not going to be pressured in to it.  And, my terrible social and networking skills more or less preclude me anyway.  So even if 99% of everyone else compares me to themselves and concludes I’m a ‘loser’, I don’t really mind much.

While I’m not ecstatic every single day, I’m also not usually stressed out much.  However, I don’t recommend this lifestyle—it’s certainly not for everyone.  I imagine it would be too boring or uneventful for most, but I find a great many things to occupy my time.  For one thing, I have no problem carving out some daily writing time.

It’s not too hard to imagine a more ‘happy’ life, but I’m OK with mine.  I suppose it depends on your goals.  If you want to be the President of the United States, then you should probably go to college.  If you don’t care what others may think, then spend your time as you will.  I guess the most important thing is to live YOUR life, and not anyone else’s, however tempting or pressuring.


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## kennyc (Jan 25, 2016)

Incanus said:


> Interesting question.
> 
> As far as I can tell, judging by what I interpret as American standards—I eminently qualify as a ‘loser’.  I don’t make much money and I have no wife or children.  I don’t own a house.  I have no college degrees (I took a few community college classes for fun, like writing and music).
> 
> ...



I would say you are a Winner not a loser!


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## Incanus (Jan 25, 2016)

kennyc said:


> I would say you are a Winner not a loser!



All a matter of perspective, I suppose.  I'm just wondering how many Americans would agree with this assessment.  Certainly not a majority.


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## Devor (Jan 25, 2016)

I've known a few people who went into the military after dropping out of college or instead of college.  It's a decent life for the right person.


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## ThinkerX (Jan 25, 2016)

I attended college on and off after high school for a few years.  No degree, kept changing my major, and flunking three classes in the first term did not help my GPA any.  

Most of my jobs were towards the bottom end of the spectrum.  Pizza delivery, security guard, counter attendant, construction.  Didn't make much.  But still...

I bought land, built a house on it, and paid it off from the proceeds of seven years of delivering pizza.  

I have known a number of people who could be considered rich.  Most of them were flat out miserable, no time for anything in their lives but work.  One of the reasons I chose the path I did was to avoid ending up like them.


My youngest brother screwed up big time as a kid, got a 'join the army or go to prison' deal, left the military under not desirable circumstances, and never went to college.  But these days he is THE Mine Safety Inspector for much of the western US and has a fairly comfortable lifestyle.

My nephew never went to college.  Instead, he went into the oil fields.  After most of twenty years doing that, they moved him to a desk job.


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## Penpilot (Jan 25, 2016)

First off, will it ruin your life? No. There are plenty of ways to do that, but dropping out is not one of them. But IMHO it will limit your employment opportunities. Still, that doesn't mean you won't or can't do well for yourself. You're just starting off with a lesser hand.  And to use a poker analogy. It's not you're hand that matters. It's how you play it, so every hand can be a winner if you play it right.

Now with that said, I went to college right out of highschool. Didn't know what the heck I wanted. Majored in computer science because it was something I was good at. Even then, I wasn't willing to do the work, so I dropped/flunked out in two years.

Decided I'd work for a bit. Hated the work and after a few years, applied to a Technical Institute and did a trade. Became a drafts man. Worked that for a bit and realized it was something I couldn't see myself doing when I was 50. 

Went back to college/university, this time knowing what I wanted. I put in the work and finished my compsci degree. 

I can tell you this. When I was working, all I could think about was going back to school. And when I was in school, all I thought about was finishing and getting to work.

What choice is right for you, only you can decide. Having bounced around, here's what I came to realize. The value of a degree isn't all in the type of job you can get with it. Part of the value lies within the experiences you gain in getting it.

What I mean by that is you learn how to learn and you learn how to think critically.

Before I went back to college I used to be self-conscious about stuff I didn't know, but after, I realized it didn't matter what I didn't know, because...well... there's a universe of things I don't know. BUT if I was interested in something, I now had the confidence that I could learn about it on my own.

A lot of this self learning involved writing craft. And in my writing, I use a lot of what I learned in my philosophy classes, how to think critically, how to articulate thoughts, and see things from other perspectives, even when I don't agree with them.

Before you drop out, I would encourage you to see if there are other options that might make you happy. If it's possible, maybe you could do a reduced course load, or take a semester or two off.

In third year, I reduced my load to 3 courses because my Mom passed away, and that threw me for a loop. But one thing I noticed was it took a lot of pressure off trying to fit everything into a day. I suddenly had room to breath and enough time to do all the course work, and from time-to-time squeeze in a little TV.

That made a lot of difference in how my life felt. The fear of failing in my courses went away, replaced by the challenge of how well I could do instead, which I think is a lot more healthy.

For me, if I could give my younger self a piece of advice before he left school, I would tell him to keep a toe in the door. Even if it's just taking one course.

But that's me to myself.

Devouring Wolf, I don't know your situation, so please don't take this as me telling you to do this or that. I'm just sharing my experiences in the hopes it'll give you some food for thought while you make your very tough decision.


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## Deleted member 4265 (Jan 26, 2016)

What I really hate about college is the people. They're all so hopeful. They believe in something. They have futures and aspirations and dreams.

I don't really know how to explain it. But I'm always exited to go back but then the semester starts and all I want to do is get out and get away from all of them and all their hopes and big plans.


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## Penpilot (Jan 26, 2016)

The thing about people who get on your nerves is they can pop up anywhere. I worked in an office and sat face-to-face with someone who irked me to no end. And to be fair, I irked them too. We had to figure a way make things work if we wanted to work the job and get paid.

Majoring in compsci, meant tons of group work. When people had matching goals and personalities, things were great. Other times, I wanted to b!tch slap each and every one. When you're goal is to do as well on a project as possible and someone says to you that 51% is as good as an A to them, part of you wants to throttle them, but then again, another part respects them for being honest and upfront.


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## Steerpike (Jan 26, 2016)

Devouring Wolf said:


> What I really hate about college is the people. They're all so hopeful. They believe in something. They have futures and aspirations and dreams.
> 
> I don't really know how to explain it. But I'm always exited to go back but then the semester starts and all I want to do is get out and get away from all of them and all their hopes and big plans.



Why would this bother you?

As for the original question, yes I think you can be successful without a college degree. I think it is becoming more difficult to find diverse employment options without a degree. As college degrees become more and more common, some employers use them as a baseline qualification (relevant or not) for hiring, or at least for advancement beyond a certain position. At least one car rental company requires a college degree just to work there and rent cars, for example. 

But people can be and are successful. You can find various trades that you can learn by doing, and don't need a degree. Certain technician-type jobs, like being an optician, can be done through work experience and certification, without a college degree. Just take a look at the options and see if any of them appeal to you.


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## Chessie (Jan 26, 2016)

I went to college. Double majored in Political Science and Biology. Now, I write for a living. Was a waitress before. So...yeah...going to college doesn't automatically mean that you're going to end up in the field of your choosing. Life happens (in my case, I didn't want to work in the state legislature and I love writing more than anything else). I chose to waitress so I could write. 

So is college the right decision for you? It's definitely worth the peace of mind that you'll always have something to fall back on if times get tough. Higher education is something many people aren't able to afford or have the opportunity to take. Having that knowledge really helps in getting better paying jobs...although I know quite a few people up here that just started working at a company early on and stuck with it, now have high wages and solid positions in their careers. 

It all depends on where you want your life to head. Is it okay to finish that degree then travel, or start a family, or do something else? Yes. But finish first is my suggestion. You never know when you'll need to dust off that degree and believe me, people respect it.


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## Deleted member 4265 (Jan 27, 2016)

Steerpike said:


> Why would this bother you?



Because they remind me of what I lost. I've no hope left because I've come to realize the things I want from life are things I can never have.


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## kennyc (Jan 27, 2016)

ahhh....expectations of others....


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## Devor (Jan 27, 2016)

Devouring Wolf said:


> Its that all of them buy into the lie of college. Its not preparing us for the real world.
> 
> I could love college if it was a place of learning. But in our culture it has become a means to an end, a baseline measurement of a person's intelligence and worth.



That's kind of sweeping language.  I can honestly say that I learned an immense amount in college, from both my classes and my peers, many of whom were simply amazing.  But every college I think has its own culture.  What college are you attending?


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## kennyc (Jan 27, 2016)

Devor said:


> That's kind of sweeping language.  I can honestly say that I learned an immense amount in college, from both my classes and my peers, many of whom were simply amazing.  But every college I think has its own culture.  What college are you attending?



Agreed. It's been a while for me, so maybe things are different these days, but in my college days there were definitely various subsets - Stoners, trust fund kids, GI bill students, those focused on only getting a degree at any cost - cheating, bribing, etc, and those who were pursing dreams.


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## kennyc (Jan 27, 2016)

We all learn (or most of us do) at some point to listen to others, but trust our hearts, to chase our dreams, to follow our own road no matter where that may lead.


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## kennyc (Jan 27, 2016)

and of course....

"Everywhere I go I’m asked if I think the university stifles writers. My opinion is that they don’t stifle enough of them."
 – Flannery O’Connor


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## Penpilot (Jan 27, 2016)

Here in Canada we have colleges and universities. Colleges are for those who didn't have the marks to get into University. I did my first two years in college and did well enough to transfer into university. 

Some of the best teachers I had were in college. In University, it was a mixed bag. I found that a lot of the professors were more interested in doing their research than teaching. I once had the experience of the class asking a professor if they could give us some sample questions so we would know what type of questions would be asked on the final. The prof said they didn't have the time.

One of the things I learned was sometimes the prof was just there to give me my mark. Just give me a good text book and I can do it myself. Because one time one of my teachers in college mumbled something under breath that for what ever reason stuck with me. You get what you put into it. 

That may be a bit trite, but it's something I find speaks to me.

From my experience, workwise, that piece of paper you get for completing college becomes less and less meaningful as you get older. Nobody cares where you went to school or what degrees you have. They only care if you can do the job and do it well.

Because I'm sure they know like I do that there are a lot of dumbasses with fancy pieces of paper. In third year computer science, I was in a work group with a computer science major who didn't know how to program. I'll pause a second to let that sink in. A third year computer science major who couldn't write a line of code to save his life. 

As for your worth being tied to your schooling, I think this is very dependant on your environment and who you choose to associate with. Those who would judge your worth based on what piece of paper have hanging on the wall aren't people that are worth associating with. Honestly, F them.

I'm fortunate enough to have friends who don't give a fig about the superficial stuff. And if they did, I don't think they'd be my friends.

Maybe one of the things you have to do is set aside other people's expectations, and forget about what other's will think. Take time and figure out what makes you happy. Figure out what you want short and long term. It doesn't have to be written in stone, but at least its a starting point. 

If happiness lies away from school, so be it.

I'm not sure if you noticed but there are a few of us who left school and went back after. Leaving school now doesn't preclude you from going back if you wanted to. Though it can be tough. There was a time when I was sitting in a classroom with kids who's ages started with the number 1 and my age started with the number 3. 

But do try to think about things long term. For myself, what made me happy when I was 20 is quite different than what makes me happy now.


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## Incanus (Jan 27, 2016)

For some reason this thread made me think of (the wonderful) Emily Dickinson:


_I'm nobody! Who are you?
Are you nobody, too?
Then there's a pair of us — don't tell!
They'd banish us, you know.

How dreary to be somebody!
How public, like a frog
To tell your name the livelong day
To an admiring bog!_


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## Heliotrope (Jan 27, 2016)

Also, I wanted to add.. Since you are interested in writing, have you considered taking creative writing? I started out in History and Sciences, thinking I wanted to work in Archeology etc, but science was not for me. I switched to English Lit and found it a breeze. It was like school was fun. 

Maybe, since you are interested in writing anyway, try switching to some creative writing courses, just so you can focus on something you enjoy?


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## A. E. Lowan (Jan 27, 2016)

I can tell you, as a former staffing recruiter and one-time graduate student, that it's possible to make a decent living in today's world without college, but it's not easy.  I went from a GED to community college to multiple universities, all as an adult.  I presented papers in international conference, but I haven't _graduated _from anything since middle school.  I ended up crashing and burning to the onset of mental illness and dropped out.  A lot.

Over time I worked crap jobs, and eventually (like 10 years) ended up in staffing making decent money.  Now I write full time.  So what you need to ask yourself is, is struggling for years and years without a degree worth it?  For me, running away from the Ivory Tower worked out in the end, but I don't recommend it if you have the opportunity to finish.  A college degree today is what a high school diploma was thirty years ago.  It's a foot in the door.  Spend some time researching job postings on Monster and Career Builder and get an idea of what you can and can't do without a degree, and then choose.


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## Nimue (Jan 28, 2016)

Okay.  This is something you need to go to a therapist with, not a fantasy forum.  Most universities have free counseling available and will be able to connect you to professional therapists.  Please make use of these resources.

It sounds like you need to isolate what's triggering you, beyond other peoples' grating idealism.  Because this is likely something that goes beyond college and into other stressful situations.  Dropping out and possible extended unemployment is not going to be any easier than college.  Consider dropping your course load down to the full-time minimum or below, depending on your financial situation and any aid or scholarships you need to remain eligible for.

My personal experience with college was generally positive and I did well, but ultimately I'm enjoying the first couple years of employed freedom after graduation much, much better than the alternating stress and idleness of college.  I'm not doing a whole lot with my major and I definitely didn't have my whole life figured out prior to graduation like some people, but college gave me some tangible benefits.  I was connected with my job, which I love, through college--along with most of my good friends now, and the great town that I live in.  Overall, I'm very glad that college is over, but I'm also glad that I did it.  But everyone has different experiences.  One thing I regret is not using all the resources that were available to me in university.  I really think you should talk to a counselor and reach out.


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## kennyc (Jan 28, 2016)

Nimue said:


> Okay.  This is something you need to go to a therapist with, not a fantasy forum.  Most universities have free counseling available and will be able to connect you to professional therapists.  Please make use of these resources.
> 
> It sounds like you need to isolate what's triggering you, beyond other peoples' grating idealism.  Because this is likely something that goes beyond college and into other stressful situations.
> 
> ...



Agreed! 


.


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## Devor (Jan 28, 2016)

Devouring Wolf, thank you for feeling comfortable enough and brave enough to share.

I have to echo Nimue's sentiment.  Colleges have experienced professionals capable of working with you on this kind of problem.  At my college it was called the "Wellness Center."  I know that simply admitting that you need the help can be difficult, and it can be even more difficult believing that they can actually help you.  But you do, and they can if you let them, although it won't be easy.

I would encourage you to seek their help immediately.  I would also suggest that you consider taking the next semester off of school in order to work on this.

If you feel like you're struggling every day, then something is wrong.  Your body and your brain are telling you that you need help.  You have a medical emergency and need to treat it as such.


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## Nimue (Jan 28, 2016)

I wanted to add a couple of things, because I think you might need to hear them.  First, you deserve to have a good college experience.  You deserve help and care.  No one wants you to suffer through college or any other time in your life, and if you open up to people, no one should insist that you keep suffering. (Assholes might, but please ignore them.) It's not worth it to sacrifice your health for your education.  If you need to return to college later in life, you can always do that, as evidenced by a lot of peoples' stories.

I'm not sure if you're a freshman, but the first year can be the hardest, and it's also the most important time to get help, so you can keep going on good footing.

Second thing is that you're not alone.  Anxiety and depression is insanely common in college students.  I don't mean that in the sense of "suck it up"--when people say they're stressed out about exams, they aren't at the point of self-harming.  I mean that in the sense that you shouldn't be ashamed of it, and in the sense that people, professors, counsellors will understand.  They should, if they're decent people.  (On that note, don't be afraid to switch therapists or counsellors if yours is making you feel worse.). The resources are there because many people need help; it's not a sign of failure.  Strength is knowing what you need and pursuing it.


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## Chessie (Jan 28, 2016)

Well said, Nimue, and thank you for bringing these important points up. If the OP is having a hard time, then taking a break or getting help are the next best things to do in order to preserve mental health.


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## Chessie (Jan 28, 2016)

Devouring Wolf said:


> I've suffered from a sub-clinical eating disorder since high school and while I'm perfectly fine during breaks, once I return to school I relapse. So when I say I'm unhappy at school, what I mean is it makes me want to starve to death and carve my skin up with a razor blade.


Please talk to a professional about this right away, be it at your school or if you have insurance. School seems to aggravate your nerves and that's why, when you go back, you fall prey to the temptations. I had these same issues in college and took a break for a year. When I went back, I saw a therapist until I graduated. It helped immensely in being able to continue my studies. Eating disorders are dangerous. I'm glad you mentioned this because it's clear you're not in denial over it. These sorts of issues stem from something much deeper than being annoyed by others at college. They affect your entire life. PM me if you ever need someone to talk to. I'd be glad to listen.


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## rahilliard (Feb 18, 2016)

Just thought I'd throw in my little story. I went to college back in the '80's but dropped out. I also did military along the way and a lot of bartending, waiting tables, and a few other odds and ends. Ended up in the corporate world but without a college degree. Then, due to being laid off and getting a really nice severance package, I went back to college at the age of 48 and graduated. Is it a disaster to drop out of college? No. Would it open some doors somewhere down the road? Most likely, yes. Does it really matter at all what kind of degree  you get? Depends on what you want to do. If you want to be an engineer, or something specific like an accountant, yes. If you want to work in publishing, no. If you want to work in corporate America, no. Bottom line is, not required but it definitely improves your chances of finding something, even if it is just something to get by on until you figure out what you want to be later in life. 

For myself, I work in IT doing Quality Assurance (think software testing). What did I get my degree in? English Creative Writing. Did I make the right choice? Damn straight! My advice is this: study what you love. Worry about employment later. Do you need to take time off from school? Go for it. Try to be realistic about when and how you might get back into school if you decide to go back. If it is something you can handle at this point, I'd say stick it out. If your health issues are too much at this point, then a straight through path may not be what is best for you. 

Okay, done rambling. Hope that wasn't too odd.

RAHilliard


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## Shannon M Metcalf (Mar 29, 2016)

I went twice, quit both times and still can't seem to hold onto a job because of my anti-social behavior and anxiety. I've since devoted all my attention towards my dreams of becoming a successful author. Check out some of my work on Wattpad, or you can see my first novel, Lycanthropy: Blood-Ties on Amazon Kindle. All in all, to be honest, success does not mean you have to have a degree in order to feel it. It just depends on who you are as a person, and if you believe the degree will open new doors; which it will. Sorry if I sound confused, but I wanted to hit most parts of your question.


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## Laurence (Mar 29, 2016)

I dropped out of school after my AS levels, aged 17 and, eager to move out with my friends, got a job as a delivery driver and gave uni a miss.

I worked there for about 2 years and pretty much gave up on ever having an enjoyable career. I had done a fair bit of paid design work as a teenager but never thought I'd be able to make a living from it. 

Luckily, a friend of mine hooked me up with a graphic design internship at a digital agency he was due to start at. I realised it was the best chance at happiness I may ever get and worked 70 hour weeks juggling my job and my internship for 3 months until I got the job. 2 years later and I'm still there, lovin' life.

If you don't know what you're good at and enjoy, I'd reccomend you stay in school. Once you start paying bills it's a lot harder to try different subjects/career paths. You may be able to work and study, but you risk losing out on a social life for a year or two!


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## FatCat (Apr 16, 2016)

I went to college briefly for culinary arts, but the tuition became to much to keep going in that field. I'm a manager for a chain restaurant and pull 50k a year, not exactly living the high life but I get by. My little sister has been chatting up the pros and cons of college, and in the end I tell her that you can be successful no matter what, but that degree mAkes things easier. 

That being said two friends of mine obtained degrees and are working the same job they had through college. It just boils down to who you are and your circumstance and expectations.


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## Dawn Goodwyn (Apr 17, 2016)

I did for two years, studying American literature. For me, the experiences I had and the things I learned (including clear writing and critical reading skills) more valuable than a degree.

Why? I haven't needed a degree to live the life I want. I left the US at the age of 22 and have traveled the world, been to 18 countries on three continents, taught English, done voice recording work, even been an extra in several movies! I have all the time I want to write, currently work freelance which gives me even more flexibility to do what I want, and am very happy in general. 

I have a healthy, loving relationship with someone I _didn't_ meet at school, who supports me in pretty much anything I do, a great family who, while they miss me, wish me the best. 

While I'm not rich, I make enough to pay my monthly student loan payments, feed myself, buy the _good_ tampons and still save up. 

If you're worried about life without a college degree, consider all your options. If you like people (especially children), you can teach English. It doesn't require moving abroad (it isn't for everyone), there are a ton of online teaching jobs that pay between 10-20 dollars an hour. They're usually Asian companies, and your students will be adorable kids or hard-working adults. Try content writing for online publications. It can be surprisingly lucrative, and the feeling of accomplishment is real. 

Just remember, as long as you're doing something that not only keeps you in food and under a roof, but you also like, you're doing well. Success isn't a hard and fast thing, it varies person to person. Enjoy your life. That's what it's there for.


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## Ophiucha (Apr 27, 2016)

I went to school for two years before dropping out. In my case, the university I attended was sympathetic to my mental health problems (general anxiety with dissociation and narcolepsy), but not _so_ sympathetic as to accommodate my needs. I enjoyed what I learned while I was there. Medieval history will always be a special interest of mine, and I took a lot out of working in an academic setting. But I don't regret leaving. It was the right thing for me, and I don't think my life has gone poorly for it.

I'm 24, and I know a lot of college graduates. Most of them work in retail, if they have a job at all. I know three people who work at Home Depot who majored in English, and one who majored in Geology. I have a friend who worked as an unpaid intern at Citibank for a year and was let go with little more than a phone number to give to her next employer as a reference. An interviewer I spoke with earlier today said "oh, I won't need any references. I never bother to call them, nobody would give me the number for someone who would say something negative anyway." There are missed opportunities, interesting jobs that required a BA or an MA, but the job market's competitive and who knows if I'd have even gotten an interview with them if I had the qualifications.

I know a few people who got great careers out of university, but most of them were in STEM fields. The only one who wasn't became a female bodybuilder after finishing her degree in Theatre.

My life isn't perfect, but I flow between jobs that pay the bills. I can get myself an expensive cheese plate for my birthday and going to see Captain America with my friends. I can buy a couple of new video games, and I can save up for bigger things like consoles or concerts. I am happily married and have several friends, more than I had while I was at university -- the only friend I had at university was a man I bonded with over our mutual hatred of 'friendship exercises'. The worst thing in my life is my anxiety disorder, but it's not like a degree would cure me.

Getting a degree has a lot of benefits, but if university doesn't suit you, there are other ways to get a degree. Online courses are great if you hate talking to overly optimistic try-hards or find campus life too stressful. Studying part-time is a great option. Or just befriend someone who works at a publishing company and bank on a bit of nepotism.


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