# The plague of originality



## Garren Jacobsen (May 28, 2013)

Yes, I said originality can be a plague and I doubt that will me any friends but it is the truth, so far as I can tell. As I peruse and comment on these boards it seems we attack ourselves by not being "original" or we constantly try to force originality into our works and worlds. I did this at one point I have tried to create things that are so original that it becomes surreal. It hurt my writing because originality took over for story, character, and solid writing.

So I ask why do we focus so much on world building and originality rather than story and character building? Is it because, like I did, we fear being deemed derivative and thus not be read? Is it us trying to make ourselves feel better by not writing our works where we preemptively call our works derivative? Or is it something else?

For myself I think it is combination of things but ultimately boils down to fear. We are afraid of rejection. We believe, falsely I think, that if we don't create an original enough magic system, government, or what have you then our works will be disregarded because of them and because of the potential for rejection we world build endlessly looking for something original and if we find something similar we abandon it. Like I almost did with my WIP. We also fear that our writing itself isn't good enough and so we create originality endlessly to make our works go from getting worked on today to be getting worked on someday.

I also wonder what would happen if we made our world building support our story rather than our story to support the world building.


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## A. E. Lowan (May 28, 2013)

I'm glad you didn't abandon your WIP.  Most excellent!

Originality is never found in the plot or the world building.  We all stand tall because we stand on the shoulders of giants, as did our forerunners.  Where we as writers find our originality is in the unique voices we each bring to the stories we tell.  That is where the true fear comes from.  Each story is a writer exposing a slice of his or her soul to a merciless would.  Not an activity for the feint of heart.  But, it is that soul that makes our work truly one of a kind.

And yes, I agree completely.  No matter how awesome a world we create, it is always, always, just set decoration for the story.  The story rules over all.


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## T.Allen.Smith (May 28, 2013)

Brian Scott Allen said:


> ...I ask why do we focus so much on world building and originality rather than story and character building?


My focus is largely placed on character & story. World building, for my writing, plays a supporting role only. 

Nothing under the sun is new or original. Not an action or thought. We are spinning new tales from old concepts, a redressing or repackaging, if you will. Acceptance of this can be liberating. Our characters make old ideas (and they're all old ideas) feel fresh because we can care for characters. We sympathize with them and find their interactions with other character types interesting. Yet, even they are not original...just different constructs that share common roots.

That sounds awfully depressing but it's not. Invoking an emotion through art is a pure goal. Whether or not we're building off others, or outright stealing ideas, matters little if you can yank emotion through your readers.



aelowan said:


> Where we as writers find our originality is in the unique voices we each bring to the stories we tell.


Yes, agreed.


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## Jabrosky (May 28, 2013)

For my part, I'm less scared of appearing derivative than sounding repetitive and obsessive. It seems the vast majority of my story ideas share with each other certain themes, subject matter, or settings, which may be a symptom of my Asperger's Syndrome (we tend to fixate on a small number of topics). That probably wouldn't cause so many problems except that I've had people call me a monomaniacal one-trick pony and mock me for it. It's one thing to put your own spin on classic tropes you love, but I worry that writing what I want will bore everyone else.


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## ecdavis (May 28, 2013)

Really, in our modern world, there are very few completely original ideas for fantasy stories.   The number of people who are writing has increased dramatically over the years and with computers and the Internet, not to mention such stuff as graphic novels, television series and movies, I'm sure that most of us could pick apart something in a new novel that we felt was 'not original'.   I agree 100% with you Brian; we need to focus more on characters and the story rather than worry about someone freaking out that they have read something similar some place else.   

Take for example, the 'classic' vampire story; so many times they are just retelling 'Dracula',  but that doesn't mean that there aren't well told variants that are worthy to be read.   The same applies to Fantasy.   How many times have we seen the typical 'dark lord who threatens the world, but a band of unlikely heroes travels across the world to either 1.) destroy a magic item 2.)find a magic item 3.) rescue someone  that will stop him.' ?   But there are many books that have used this timeless theme and are considered masterpieces.   I think it is the characters and how well they are developed, combined with the movement and feel of the way the story is written.   

It can get crazy if you constantly try to find patterns to stories and criticize them for their similarity.   I saw a large number of parallels between 'Avatar' and 'Dances With Wolves' and much of the story-line is the same (An outsider to a culture finds his place within that culture and then defends his new people against his former culture).   Yet I liked both movies due to character development and the way both were filmed.   The same goes for fantasy books.


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## Xaysai (May 28, 2013)

I've been thinking a lot lately about all of the rules and advice we give each other on these forums, and I think the most difficult part of writing for me so far has been learning: never always do something.

Speech tags are "bad" (but sometimes necessary)
Adverbs are "bad" (but sometimes necessary)
An opening with no hook is "bad" (but many of the greatest works ever written don't have one)
Works that lack originality are derivative (while everything is derivative, regardless)
"Show, don't tell" (unless it's one of those times you NEED TO TELL)

Etc., etc.

I'm beginning to believe that mastering the art of writing is more about knowing when it's acceptable to go against the generally accepted convention than when not to.


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## A. E. Lowan (May 28, 2013)

Jabrosky said:


> For my part, I'm less scared of appearing derivative than sounding repetitive and obsessive. It seems the vast majority of my story ideas share with each other certain themes, subject matter, or settings, which may be a symptom of my Asperger's Syndrome (we tend to fixate on a small number of topics). That probably wouldn't cause so many problems except that I've had people call me a monomaniacal one-trick pony and mock me for it. It's one thing to put your own spin on classic tropes you love, but I worry that writing what I want will bore everyone else.



To quote one of my own characters, 





> "There's nothing wrong with being a one trick pony, as long as it's one heck of a trick." ~ Bridget Mulcahy, Fire Mage



Write what you want to read.  You're not the only one who wants to read it.  I, also, tend to write on certain themes and subject matter.  The nature of good and evil, families, sexuality, redemption... these themes appear over and over again in my work.  Am I worried about boring people?  Naw.  I also (probably) have Asperger's.  I've been called a lot of things in my life - boring has never been one of them.


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## Ophiucha (May 28, 2013)

Jabrosky said:


> For my part, I'm less scared of appearing derivative than sounding repetitive and obsessive. It seems the vast majority of my story ideas share with each other certain themes, subject matter, or settings, which may be a symptom of my Asperger's Syndrome (we tend to fixate on a small number of topics). That probably wouldn't cause so many problems except that I've had people call me a monomaniacal one-trick pony and mock me for it. It's one thing to put your own spin on classic tropes you love, but I worry that writing what I want will bore everyone else.



I empathize with that a lot - there are a few things I just... stick with. And they're sort of strange, specific things? Like, I really like space and all of my fantasy stories have elaborate zodiacs and often have a sort of 'Tower of Babel' myth and occasionally are even looking into rocket science. I always have a mute character, often one of the main characters. And it's like I can't help it? I'll start with something completely unrelated and then it'll just come together, naturally, that of course the MC should be mute and I, like, justify it by bringing it in with one of the themes I had established or something. I haven't published most of my stories, so my first book will be fine, but I'm sort of worried about what my second book will be like...


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## A. E. Lowan (May 28, 2013)

Ophiucha said:


> I empathize with that a lot - there are a few things I just... stick with. And they're sort of strange, specific things? Like, I really like space and all of my fantasy stories have elaborate zodiacs and often have a sort of 'Tower of Babel' myth and occasionally are even looking into rocket science. I always have a mute character, often one of the main characters. And it's like I can't help it? I'll start with something completely unrelated and then it'll just come together, naturally, that of course the MC should be mute and I, like, justify it by bringing it in with one of the themes I had established or something. I haven't published most of my stories, so my first book will be fine, but I'm sort of worried about what my second book will be like...



I would say that by the time you get that first book out of your system, you'll have found some new, fun thing to obsess over.  That's part of the adventure.  And if you still have the need to work with your mute character?  Series, babe!  I hear they're gonna be big.


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## Ophiucha (May 28, 2013)

Well, I mean, I've finished like three books with mute protagonists and I haven't kicked it yet. I'm just sort of hoping by the time I publish any of them I can move on to... blind protagonists, or something.  Maybe that can be my thing, different sense-based disabilities.

@Topic, I tend to agree that the worldbuilding should support the story and characters, first and foremost. But I think it may be a bad sign if the best 'support' for your story is a generic medieval fantasy setting. Not necessarily a sign that you should just add some elaborate dragon biology and a fully-fledged economy so much as 'how original is your _story_ if the best place for it is the most bland setting of the genre'? Because every story will develop originality on its own, but you need a somewhat original starting place in order to go anywhere new with it naturally. There's a balance, as with all things in writing.


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## saellys (May 28, 2013)

My _The Stone Front_ writers and I sent an excerpt to our beta readers a couple weeks ago. It's a "slow" scene with people talking in a castle, and it deals with a matter of succession in a noble family. Nothing even remotely groundbreaking.

A friend of mine, my favorite beta ever, worth her weight in gold for her laser-precise critique on the micro, macro, and meta levels, mentioned that she couldn't see the "big different thing" that set our medieval fantasy novel apart from other medieval fantasy novels. She was totally right. She could probably say the same thing about most of the rest of the novel, in fact! And you know what? I don't mind.

I know which parts of this story feel new and fresh to me, and I know what my co-authors and I are trying to accomplish in the form of our tone, our themes, and our characters. More importantly, I know where this story is going and what I want from it, and I'm not interested in introducing some big, different new element in the hope of hooking more readers. Moreover, we're not seeking a publisher, so we don't have to worry about mass marketability, and we want our fanbase to grow organically based on the strength of our story. 

So while I do hope that my friend wasn't so bored by the excerpt that she will avoid giving us feedback in the future, I chose to give that portion of her critique a very low priority. The quest for originality is endless and futile. Write your story and believe in it--your conviction will carry you further than a gimmick ever could.


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## A. E. Lowan (May 28, 2013)

Well, yeah, I'll have to agree with that.  There IS such a thing as not putting in any effort.

Edit:  Oops!  That was in reply to Ophi.


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## Jabrosky (May 28, 2013)

I can easily avoid the medieval stereotype because medieval Europe isn't even my favorite time and place for a setting. I tend to specialize in the ancient Nile Valley or other regions of Africa.


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## Alexandra (May 28, 2013)

Brian Scott Allen said:


> ... So I ask why do we focus so much on world building and originality rather than story and character building? Is it because, like I did, we fear being deemed derivative and thus not be read? Is it us trying to make ourselves feel better by not writing our works where we preemptively call our works derivative? Or is it something else?
> 
> For myself I think it is combination of things but ultimately boils down to fear ...



Yes, but not of rejection but of work. Real work. The kind of writers' work which breathes life into characters great and small and forces the reader to read on late into the night because you're telling such a rippin' good yarn. Spending hours fussing over the names of your gods or how the currency works or whether your magic system "makes sense" are simple diversions from the more important task at hand–convincing me that I should care about your characters, and that I must know what happens next. World building can aid and abet the greater goals, but that's all.

Don't get me wrong, I world build too. The world of _The Songs..._ is loosely based on early medieval western Europe; I studied history in school and gravitated towards this time for a number of reasons, now I use what I've learned over the years to create settings which will encourage my readers to suspend their disbelief then be seduced by the characters and the narrative. World building for me involves closing my eyes and imagining what I need; I take copious notes because I've a poor memory. Often historical writings back up what I've imagined or clarifies a social or technological point–history can be a great friend to the fantasy writer.


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## Ireth (May 28, 2013)

As a fellow Aspie, I can definitely sympathize with the "one-trick pony" idea. The majority of my current WIPs include either vampires, Fae, or both. I've tried to write about other things like lycanthropes and intelligent wolves, but both of those stories have stalled. :/


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## Jabrosky (May 28, 2013)

ecdavis said:


> How many times have we seen the typical 'dark lord who threatens the world, but a band of unlikely heroes travels across the world to either 1.) destroy a magic item 2.)find a magic item 3.) rescue someone  that will stop him.' ?   But there are many books that have used this timeless theme and are considered masterpieces.   I think it is the characters and how well they are developed, combined with the movement and feel of the way the story is written.


In addition, some tropes persist because they are inherently appealing. Take quests for example. They provide both writer and reader with the opportunity to explore an richly detailed imaginary world, and who can resist that?

I will admit to feeling more ambivalent about the magic doohickey at the end though. If I could write an exploratory quest story that didn't necessitate finding some supernatural thingamabob, I would.


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## T.Allen.Smith (May 28, 2013)

Xaysai said:


> I've been thinking a lot lately about all of the rules and advice we give each other on these forums, and I think the most difficult part of writing for me so far has been learning: never always do something.
> 
> Speech tags are "bad" (but sometimes necessary)
> Adverbs are "bad" (but sometimes necessary)
> ...



When you figure out where your ideals lie on topics like these, you're on your way to finding your own unique voice.


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## T.Allen.Smith (May 28, 2013)

Jabrosky said:


> If I could write an exploratory quest story that didn't necessitate finding some supernatural thingamabob, I would.


Solving mysteries....seeking revenge or justice...anything like these different non-item related quests you find in other genres, can be applied to fantasy writing.


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## danr62 (May 28, 2013)

[Understatement]Our own Michael Sullivan did alright with a generic medieval setting. [\understatement]

Having a generic element isn't the kiss of death. Michael has said that he chose the medieval setting specifically because it was something fantasy readers would easily and readily accept. He didn't want to have to spend a ton of time educating readers about the world. Instead, he dove right in with character and plot and kept the narrative tight.


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## Mythopoet (May 29, 2013)

Brian Scott Allen said:


> Yes, I said originality can be a plague and I doubt that will me any friends but it is the truth, so far as I can tell. As I peruse and comment on these boards it seems we attack ourselves by not being "original" or we constantly try to force originality into our works and worlds. I did this at one point I have tried to create things that are so original that it becomes surreal. It hurt my writing because originality took over for story, character, and solid writing.
> 
> So I ask why do we focus so much on world building and originality rather than story and character building? Is it because, like I did, we fear being deemed derivative and thus not be read? Is it us trying to make ourselves feel better by not writing our works where we preemptively call our works derivative? Or is it something else?
> 
> ...



I wouldn't call originality a plague, though I do believe that it is highly overrated. It is also impossible. As the poet said, there is nothing new under the sun. Or as Ralph Waldo Emerson said, "All my best thoughts were stolen by the ancients". No matter how new an interesting an idea feels to you there's probably someone out there who has done it before, though you may not be aware of it. That doesn't mean you can't take that idea and make it fresh and new all over again. Perspective and voice IS originality in fiction. 

There is danger in striving for originality. If you're trying too hard to be original readers are likely to notice because your storytelling will feel contrived. As C.S. Lewis said, "Even in literature and art, no man who bothers about originality will ever be original: whereas if you simply try to tell the truth (without caring twopence how often it has been told before) you will, nine times out of ten, become original without ever having noticed it."

I am, however, wondering what an emphasis on worldbuilding has to do with anything? You can create over wrought fiction by striving for originality in plot or character just as much as in setting.


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## T.Allen.Smith (May 29, 2013)

Mythopoet said:


> I am, however, wondering what an emphasis on worldbuilding has to do with anything? You can create over wrought fiction by striving for originality in plot or character just as much as in setting.


I think the OP just believes world building to be an example of a story element that budding writers strive for some unattainable level of originality. I don't feel they were claiming that unproductive searches for originality can't occur within other elements.

"About the most originality that any writer can hope to achieve is to steal with good judgment." - Josh Billings


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## Mythopoet (May 29, 2013)

T.Allen.Smith said:


> "About the most originality that any writer can hope to achieve is to steal with good judgment." - Josh Billings




"A real writer learns from earlier writers the way a boy learns from an apple orchard- by stealing what he has a taste for, and can carry off."

~ Archibald MacLeish (A Continuing Journey)

I love good writing quotes.


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## Chessie (May 29, 2013)

T.Allen.Smith said:


> "About the most originality that any writer can hope to achieve is to steal with good judgment." - Josh Billings



Perfect. Its all been done my friends, everything under the sun. It doesn't mean we should stop writing or throw our ideas into the trash. Everyone has a unique voice and way of telling a story. Hell, one of my favorite trends in fantasy literature are stories based from fairytales. Put a modern spin on that with an author that can tell a part of the story that I never thought existed and we're good to go. Those works are getting published with really, non-original ideas at the core. But it becomes original once the writer twists things his/her way. People just want good stories. That's all that matters. 

PS: I'd like to thank the OP for this thread. I think its something all writers go through (originality bug) but us newer ones tend to let that take us off course.


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## Jamber (May 29, 2013)

A genetic paradigm springs to mind. Things evolve and they sometimes just mutate to become something else, then we give the offspring a new name.
I like the search for mutation, personally.


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## Garren Jacobsen (May 30, 2013)

So then how do we avoid the trap of trying to be too original and abandoning projects before they begin or even in the middle of them and write a good story?


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## psychotick (May 31, 2013)

Hi,

In my view writing has to be a balance. It's the whole package, the plot, characters, world etc that make the story what it is, and what it is or isn't derivative of. I doubt that there's any work ever produced that is completely non derivative. And if there was I doubt many people would want to read it. People like to read books that provide a level of comfort to them as a reader. They want to imerse themselves in worlds they understand, to know what's happening and why and to recognise / relate to the characters. If a work were completely original they would likely find themselves lost in the story.

At the same time we all have to strive to be original / creative where we can be. With Last of the Mohicans / Dances with wolves and Avatar the plots and the characters are largely similar. The world varies quite widely and beautifully. And that's sufficient to satisfy the readers / viewers. With cop shows it's usually the players that vary. The plots get rehashed and one police station looks fairly much like another. But again the differences are enough for most people to happily accept the 'new' story. And with vampires, well one blood sucking ghoul is fairly much like another (Unless we're talking about the ones that seem to really really want to find that innocent teenager and fall inlove with them!) But the worlds and stories are hopefully varied enough to please viewers / readers.

So to me as a writer it seems we need to strive to be original where we can, but not to be so original in everything that the stories are inaccessible to our readers. It's the balance between originality in plot, world and characters that will determine whether overall a story is original or not, and it's the writer's judgement as to where he should try for something new and where he should go for the standard tropes. 

The only wrong answers would be where either a story was so derivative that it was almost plagerism, or so original that it was completely inaccessible to readers.

Cheers, Greg.


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## A. E. Lowan (May 31, 2013)

We develop the thick skins that will serve us well through wallpapering our offices and bathrooms with rejection letters.  We write with our hearts and souls.  We write as best we can.

We write for our lives.


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## PaulineMRoss (May 31, 2013)

Originality is overrated. Have you looked recently at the bestseller lists? Readers WANT the same story repeated endlessly. Here's part of the blurb from one of the top-selling epic fantasies on Amazon's Kindle list:



> In A VOW OF GLORY (Book #5 in the Sorcerer's Ring), Thor embarks with his Legion friends on an epic quest into the vast wilds of the Empire to try to find the ancient Destiny Sword and save the Ring. Thor’s friendships deepen, as they journey to new places, face unexpected monsters and fight side by side in unimaginable battle. They encounter exotic lands, creatures and peoples beyond which they could have ever imagined, each step of their journey fraught with increasing danger.



The Mageborn series, another top seller, is about a blacksmith's son who discovers he has unexpected powers...

Personally, I'm always slightly disappointed if a book has the standard faux-medieval setting, but I can forgive it if the author hasn't just bought into it wholesale, but added a few variations. And, as many others have said upthread, characterisation and storytelling skills trump any lack of originality anyway.

Write the story you yourself will want to read, and I guarantee other people will want to read it too. And if you do that, your writing will have its own honesty, which shines through. My most disappointing reads, these days, are the ones where the author is writing to a market-driven formula. They may be technically perfect, but they have no heart to them.


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## Chessie (May 31, 2013)

Pauline, wonderful post. On one hand, it is disappointing that readers eat up these "market-driven formulas" but on the other, its nice knowing that cliche is ok with a twist. Readers are looking for something to relate to, especially in fantasy I think where the learning curve is a bit steep for them (learning about the world, etc). It seems like writing books these days is all about what types of stories will sell the best. 

I agree though, writing what you want to read is the best chance at giving the story your all, which will reflect back at you as an author more positively in the end.


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## Addison (May 31, 2013)

Have a thick skin and an open mind. The way is see it we try so hard to make our work stand out from others that in the long run we destroy it. Just take a step back, look at what your story is really about and what specifically is in that story that attracts you, and/or the reader, that's not in any other book, and stick to that.


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## Alexandra (Jun 2, 2013)

PaulineMRoss said:


> Originality is overrated. Have you looked recently at the bestseller lists? Readers WANT the same story repeated endlessly....



Originality overrated?... never! Readers are creatures of habit, at least some are, as are many regular TV viewers (how many specialty cable channels show reruns exclusively), music fans, and so on. Many of us have become fearful creatures of habit reluctant to step out of our comfort zones ... pity.


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## Feo Takahari (Jun 2, 2013)

This is going to be a bit borderline, so I'll spoilertag it just in case. I'll try to keep it SFW.



Spoiler: My problem with the story as ritual



I've mentioned plenty of times that I write fantasy erotica. I've mentioned a few times that I read _My Little Pony_ fanfiction. When I go to FIMfiction.net, I turn off the mature filter--exotic relations between multicolored horses aren't that much weirder than the werewolves, demons, and intelligent worms I've written about.

At this point, I tend to avoid stories that take place several years in the show's "future", star the character of Spike the dragon, and have a "romance" tag. These stories form an entire genre, and it largely focuses on the elevation of Spike as an ideal hero and the demotion of the female characters to passive objects of his desire. Still, I tend to just ignore them--I used to figure they were basically harmless.

One story, which I did look at, features a version of Spike who lacks, er, a conventional male thingie, as some real-life reptiles do. Commenter after commenter was FURIOUS about this, insisting that Spike has and MUST have two giant thingies, as some other reptiles do! They saw Spike as their stand-in in the world of Equestria, having sex with ponies in their place, and even one writer approaching him in a different way was enough to make them personally feel emasculated.



This is most obvious with romance and erotica, but you see it in other genres as well--e.g. the people who flipped out when _Digimon_ started letting adults tame Digimon, because to them, the show was and could only be about how children were special and could do things adults couldn't. This never fails to creep me out, and it's a large part of why I push for the idea of the story as original act, putting ideas together in new and unexpected ways--to me, the alternative is the story as stale ritual, repeating and confirming what people desperately want to think.


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## Addison (Jun 3, 2013)

I think people generally use kids as amazing heroes with boundless power and abilities because of the "age of innocence", as it's believed only children can see fairies and such until they reach a certain age. And it's also the "coming of age" stories. Adults have come of age.....at least physically. Light bulb! See ya!


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