# The Price of Magic



## Rkcapps (May 26, 2017)

I'm pondering the price of magic. Other than exhaustion, can you think of anything else? I know The  Shannara Chronicles had the stones burn into Wil's hands but there are no "conduits" in my world.


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## pmmg (May 26, 2017)

The cost could be in disfiguration of the spell caster, I think that is somewhat common. Sinbad had a witch with a leg permanently transformed into a birds leg. Glowing eyes, and ruined face, like the cost of using the dark side of the force for little Ani and Palpatine. Could be the cost in materials used. If you need and owl feather to work the spell, the owl feather could be consumed. The cost could be the corruption of ones soul, similar to Frodo using the ring. The cost could be the weakening of magic energies of the planet as a whole, too much leading to a cataclysmic type event.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (May 26, 2017)

Physical symptoms: exhaustion, nausea, fainting, weight loss/wasting away the user, inflicting just about any unpleasant effect. Magic being extremely painful. 

Using magic causing hallucinations, decay of sanity or mental health. 

Magic being difficult to control and accidents being common, hurting people around the user. 

Magic slowly corrupting those who use it. 

Magic being dangerously addictive. 

Just a few ideas...


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## Demesnedenoir (May 26, 2017)

Death, insanity, damnation... oh, the fun of it all.


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## valiant12 (May 27, 2017)

I don't particilary like magic systems with high cost.

Imagine the following scenario - two magic users. One of them use his life force to fuel his powers and his healt and\or apearence  detiorate each time he use his powers and the other use external renueble power sorce ( Nature, cristals, other people life force , gods, demons , spiritual etc).  The one with the external power sorce will be much stronger. Also the one with the external power sorce will have a much higher chance of reproducing and passing on his gennes. 

Also if  your magic is less impresive and way more unpractical than guns , catapults and other weapons that existed in real life
, why not use conventional weapons. They will be cooler and the rule of cool is important in fantasy.


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## TheKillerBs (May 27, 2017)

valiant12 said:


> I don't particilary like magic systems with high cost.
> 
> Imagine the following scenario - two magic users. One of them use his life force to fuel his powers and his healt and\or apearence  detiorate each time he use his powers and the other use external renueble power sorce ( Nature, cristals, other people life force , gods, demons , spiritual etc).  The one with the external power sorce will be much stronger. Also the one with the external power sorce will have a much higher chance of reproducing and passing on his gennes.
> 
> ...



Well, if your protagonist has to pay a high cost to use magic and your antagonist doesn't, well that's an easy peasy way to increase the difficulty of the task for your protagonist innit? Tension increases, blah blah. If this isn't how you're using it, the question becomes why? Why do you have more than one magic system in your novel?


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## skip.knox (May 27, 2017)

The cost can be in magic. The more you use, the less effective it is (over some set period of time). Or the more erratic it becomes.

As others have said, the possibilities are endless. When I do this kind of calculus, I proceed from the other end. That is, I leave everything up in the air as I write my story. As I get to specific situations, I let the story set the constraints. By the time I have a few scenes written, I begin to get a feel for how magic behaves. Over quite a long time, I finally have a system that underlies all my stories. I am quite certain I would never have been able to build this in the abstract and have fit my stories into it.


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## FifthView (May 27, 2017)

What role will magic play in your story? Who will be using magic – MC/hero? Villain? Only side characters?

I'd approach the decision on the basis of these questions.

Cost itself can play different roles.

Cost can be used to limit access to magic or use of magic in the world: 


If many expensive ingredients or rare ingredients are required to perform magic, this type of cost will mean few have the opportunity to use it.
If using magic even half well requires years of study, decades even, this sort of cost also will limit access and use within the world.
If the physical penalties are always extreme, this may also limit its use because fewer people will be willing to go blind, become deformed, whatever.

Cost can be used create conflict for a main character:


Extreme physical penalties will create the questions, _Do I risk it? Yet, I must do it! But...the cost!?_
If the world might be greatly threatened, possibly destroyed, the MC might ask those same questions.
If the society abhors magic use, then the cost of becoming an outcast will weigh on an MC's mind and may limit the MC's ability to accomplish other things (because he'll be alone.)
If the MC must kill others and use their blood and body parts to work magic, this cost may lead the MC to suffer a great moral dilemma, wrestle with saving/losing his soul, possibly lead him to insanity.

There may be other roles cost plays in your story, and these might overlap somewhat.

IF you want to create conflict for a main character, I'd begin by asking what that main character values most. Think of three or four things he values. Then set up your cost so that it threatens one or more of those things.

Now, we all value our own health, so things like exhaustion, deformity, and possible deadly explosions centered upon us are common types of cost. Exhaustion is overused in stories, probably.

But what if your MC values his family and village community? Maybe the cost in that case could be ostracism–magic is abhorred, he'll become an outcast even with his family–or, maybe in order to use magic he must put dear ones in thrall and siphon their life force on a continual basis.

What if your MC values his image and propriety? Heh, maybe the cost of magic is that he can't touch cloth without being severely burned by it, so finding clothing is difficult. Or maybe magic causes him to let loose very smelly farts throughout the day. (These are a bit extreme and maybe silly, but you get the idea.)

If your MC values his own intellect, maybe every use of magic causes him to lose some bit of knowledge.

And so on and on.


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## valiant12 (May 27, 2017)

> Well, if your protagonist has to pay a high cost to use magic and your antagonist doesn't, well that's an easy peasy way to increase the difficulty of the task for your protagonist innit? Tension increases, blah blah. If this isn't how you're using it, the question becomes why? Why do you have more than one magic system in your novel?



I have only one system.
By the way if You really want to increase the tension, you shouldn't give your mc magic.


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## Annoyingkid (May 27, 2017)

valiant12 said:


> I have only one system.
> By the way if You really want to increase the tension, you shouldn't give your mc magic.



On the other hand, one has to be careful because a gap that's too wide between hero and villain will limit storytelling options and make it so they can't meet each other until the end and even then the villain only loses because of their own stupidity. Aka Eragon and Galbatorix syndrome.


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## Deleted member 4265 (May 27, 2017)

valiant12 said:


> Also if  your magic is less impresive and way more unpractical than guns , catapults and other weapons that existed in real life
> , why not use conventional weapons. They will be cooler and the rule of cool is important in fantasy.




This assumes the only use for magic is combat, but there are many other ways magic could be applied and still be worth an immensely high price such as healing, mind-reading, seeing the future, controlling the weather and thus preventing (or causing) drought, communing with the spirit world, telepathy, ect.


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## TheKillerBs (May 27, 2017)

valiant12 said:


> I have only one system.
> By the way if You really want to increase the tension, you shouldn't give your mc magic.



Magic can itself be a source of tension, so no, not necessarily. And if you only have one system, then the scenario you painted would never happen, so it's a moot point anyway.


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## Penpilot (May 27, 2017)

If you want to look at various ways cost has been used, I'd suggest looking at Brandon Sanderson's magic systems. 

One of the most interesting costs of magic I found was in the shared world novellas by Tobias Buckell and Paolo Bacigalupi, The Executioness and The Alchemist.

Taken from an iO9 article.


> Every time somebody casts a spell - whether something huge that will create a floating city, or something small that will heal a child's cough - it feeds the "bramble." Bramble is a plant that chokes off farmlands and kills everything in its path, including the humans for whom it is poison.


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## Rkcapps (May 27, 2017)

Thanks, everyone, you've definitely helped honed my magic system, especially Fifthview  I love the discussion, it helps tease out the finer points to a cost. Time to write more!


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## valiant12 (May 28, 2017)

> This assumes the only use for magic is combat, but there are many other ways magic could be applied and still be worth an immensely high price such as healing, mind-reading, seeing the future, controlling the weather and thus preventing (or causing) drought, communing with the spirit world, telepathy, ect.



Depen on what you you meen by  immensely high price.


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## RedAngel (May 29, 2017)

I honestly do not know how I feel about the price or cost aspect of magic. I think many people are hung up on the idea that it has to be detrimental in some way or have a drawback worthy of keeping the general populace from using it all the time.

I watched Sandersons class in which he spells out the price of magic. It really does make a lot of sense that you need to keep magic at a distance to make it seem special and to instill a sense of wonder when the writer decides to put it into play. I get that.

On one hand you have a world that magic should be second nature in. Depending on how you plan to use magic you need to allow your MC or supporting chars the time to not only discover magic but also to hone and master it in segments in which to overcome some kind of obstacle. On the other you have to show the impact it has along with the risks of using it. 

I am not personally too much of a fan of doing detrimental damage to my MC every time he decides to use magic. Price or cost aside the story would go nowhere if every time magic was used people went mad, passed out, died, or injured everyone around them. 

I think those events are all worst case scenerios for when magic goes horribly wrong and not every time you use magic. If anything it is a slow degridation that is not immediatly occuring but over a long period of time or a lifetime of using magic or specific types of magic in general that are combative or detrimental. I can see if the character is interrupted in mid cast assuming your magic is not instant. The other premise of magic is the fact that it can change many things but magic can also be used to undo just about as much as was caused.

As an example you don't see athletes getting injured every time they play their sport. What you do see is over exertion and them pushing their limits until their body fails or some freak incident they have done thousands of times and this time it does not work. I don't think magic is much different and is more like a spiritual muscile than a physical one. A muscle that requires excercise and trinaing to reach your max potential. Do too much too soon and you will either burn yourself out or you will injure yourself. You do not just decide to run a marathon out of the blue you need to train for it. Likewise the lucky will never suffer such injuries though over the years they will take wear and tear on their bodies and have arthritis or other ailments that nag them but they can still compete.

I think the real danger of magic comes in the form of awakening magic, skill level, distraction, interuption, physical injury, the time it takes to cast a spell, emtion, intent, moral uses, environmental condition, and the event unfolding before the MC. There are probably many more factors but to me those are the main reasons why detriment would even come into play if it is improperly cast in the first place.

I think a person's adrenaline plays heavily on the cost of magic. I think that if a person is calm magic would be much easier to cast then if you were running for your life or scared to death pinned into a corner.


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## Rkcapps (May 29, 2017)

I like your interpretation RedAngel. A question then in your analogy, couldn't a person under pressure also be forced to practice (an innate) magic? Like in the same situation we are all put in at one time in a job ... either sink or swim. So a mage learns by encountering hard stuff that they can do something hard they never considered trying?


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## Ruru (May 29, 2017)

I've used a system where it is a moral standpoint that restricts magics use, among other things. In the race that can use it, everyone can use it, but with varying aptitude and usually only though training. Normally it is used for healing, but it can also be turned to a destructive end (it is more of a non-specific energy than a 'magic' which can be used for spells or curses). The race is normally a peaceful, easy going culture, and their abhorrence to killing is such that even in a tight spot, they don't want to use the power. So there is an avoidance of the destruction and death that it can cause that restricts how it is used, sort of a last resort feel. There is also a physical cost: raw energy even in the body of the wielder is quite harmful.


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## TWErvin2 (May 29, 2017)

In my *First Civilization's Legacy Series*, spell casters require aptitude and training, especially to advance.

As they advance, they begin to take on 'aspects' of their craft. Seers begin to lose their physical sight, Enchanters become more and more susceptible to magic used against them, sorcerers become more physically twisted and disabled, healers become unable to harm others, necromancers...well,  not pretty, etc.


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## RedAngel (May 29, 2017)

Rkcapps said:


> I like your interpretation RedAngel. A question then in your analogy, couldn't a person under pressure also be forced to practice (an innate) magic? Like in the same situation we are all put in at one time in a job ... either sink or swim. So a mage learns by encountering hard stuff that they can do something hard they never considered trying?



It was Hellen Keller who said "Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strenghtened, ambition inspired, and success achieved."


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## Annoyingkid (May 29, 2017)

TWErvin2 said:


> In my *First Civilization's Legacy Series*, spell casters require aptitude and training, especially to advance.
> 
> As they advance, they begin to take on 'aspects' of their craft. Seers begin to lose their physical sight, Enchanters become more and more susceptible to magic used against them, sorcerers become more physically twisted and disabled, healers become unable to harm others, necromancers...well,  not pretty, etc.



This sounds very written and artificial. Having different drawbacks that seem tailor made to each class.


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## FifthView (May 29, 2017)

TWErvin2 said:


> In my *First Civilization's Legacy Series*, spell casters require aptitude and training, especially to advance.
> 
> As they advance, they begin to take on 'aspects' of their craft. Seers begin to lose their physical sight, Enchanters become more and more susceptible to magic used against them, sorcerers become more physically twisted and disabled, healers become unable to harm others, necromancers...well,  not pretty, etc.



I like this. It uses the natural development we see in our own world, in which practitioners take on qualities that long practice or employment in a field will promote. E.g., those working with their hands (farmers, mechanics, whatever) might develop calluses, small or large injuries related to their work, an eye for practical solutions. Those who are professional athletes develop the characteristics of athletes. Those who go into politics....well, not pretty, heh.

I use something like that in my current WIP. The focus of this story is in one land of the larger world where the magic is isolated to a class of "monks," (loose analogue), and prolonged use changes them. The change is mostly mental, personality-based, ties into the practice of a philosophy/religion, but some of those who have practiced this magic long enough stay in magical physical states for prolonged periods.

I'm also using something RedAngel mentioned. My MC will be a novice, a new practitioner, and there are dangers associated with that.


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## C. A. Stanley (May 31, 2017)

RedAngel said:


> As an example you don't see athletes getting injured every time they play their sport. What you do see is over exertion and them pushing their limits until their body fails or some freak incident they have done thousands of times and this time it does not work. I don't think magic is much different and is more like a spiritual muscile than a physical one. A muscle that requires excercise and trinaing to reach your max potential. Do too much too soon and you will either burn yourself out or you will injure yourself.


Great example. I do prefer to think of magic as a 'muscle', like in the film Chronicle. “It’s like a muscle, we just have to learn to use it.”. In a similar vein to mental traits, which you can improve over time (reduce emotional sensitivity, or apathy; improve confidence, or decision making etc.)


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## RedAngel (May 31, 2017)

In many religions, myths, stories, and novels music is often described as being part of creation. So I tend to associate it with magic as it makes sense. I interpret it as fire, water, earth, wind, lightning, light, and darkness are the aethers that comprise everything. they are the base notes in each scale that forms all the keys or keys of creation. The vibrations each note creates can manipulate the aether that things are made up of in time, space, and structure.

Each individual note has a specific purpose in magic. Each is pleasant but some can be combined to create greater effects as a chord while others create disharmonies. A chord is the essence of casting a basic spell. The more one learns about magic the more tones can be combined to make more useful or intricate spells. 

A new magic user is like a piano which is out of tune with some keys being dead and others being horribly out of tune. The more they play the more the strings come to life until they gain an understanding of harmony and the dead strings start to make sounds. Each race is made up of varying notes which allow them to use one type of magic, some types of magic, or all types based on their makeup.

I see each type of aether having an effect over the others. Depending on their strength water will put out fire or it could create steam. Fire will evaporate water or it can boil it. wind can erode earth or earth can slow or prevent it's movement. Lightning can set earth to flame or it can be absorbed. They can also be combined as water and earth to form acids or water, earth, and fire to form a poison gas. It just depends on what the effects are intended to do.

Mind, body, and spirit are the three most common scales as most intentions are to affect another person. Other scales are animation, conjuration, divination, evocation, and so on. They do various things in the enviornment beyond other individuals. Notes can also be bended.

I would say that the the price of magic in this example is the strings that vibrate if they are played too hard or often they wear out or snap and fall out of tune which gets harder each time to keep them in tune. If one breaks a string it cannot be replaced and would render the effect it is used to create less effective.

The drawbacks of magic would be unintended notes that either one does not understand when learning or also a missed note that can cause the music to fall into disharmony. This disharmony can either come to an abrubt halt causing a spell to fizzle out before it is fully cast or to be intterupted altogether just before it is cast in which the spell either becomes highly unstable and can explode in all directions or to cast something the user did not want to cast.

I would also go as far to say that there should be a type of exaustion like if you ran a marathon with extended use. Just simply casting a spell  should not necessarily tire one out spiritually unless it is a major spell being cast. The pool of mana within a spell caster should allow someone to maintain a sort of stamina for a while before the potency starts to wane. At which time maintaining a frequency or resonance would be much harder to keep up which would then cause the ill effects.

And as music evokes emotion, emotion should evoke higher or lower wave lengths in the frequency. Causing the spells to be stronger or weaker, wide or focused, and other held notes that emotions of sadness, anger, calm, fear, joy, disgust, surprise, etc. And also effected by an overarching morale in groups of people that would also effect spells being cast.

Belief in gods or faith in religions halp to shape the songs people like to play as their beliefs help to shape their outlook on life and the songs that are being played around them and in their universe and the expanse beyond. 

Different times of year or the environments help to amplify or hinder specific notes which play into the cost of magic that can have devistating results.

Magic should never be taken lightly without having at least some grasp of how things work. The most dangerous uses are those who do not have sufficient schooling in magic or those who understand but use it for personal gain rather than the good of all, for whatever you cast will come back to you three fold some day.


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## Alyssa (Jun 4, 2017)

The price of magic could also be in its difficulty to either attain or execute. What if a spell book was literally that... a book.

One planned world I have is where magic is an innate resource in every person in equal amounts... getting more of it can be a matter of waiting for or, for the unscrupulous and power hungry, hastening someone's death.

Then there can even be that there is no direct cost of it, except perhaps on your characters conscience, whatever the action required to perform magic takes. It might not be pretty.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Sheilawisz (Jun 5, 2017)

Hello everyone!

I have been thinking about something like a price for having used Magic under certain conditions, which is an unusual situation for me because in all of my stories Magic has no price or cost at all for the Magical characters. This is for my _Alice into Darkness_ story, and the cost involved would be something like this:

Even though Mages in Wander's Land are free to use their powers without any price, Alice (my protagonist) is now in a position in which she could be using her magical powers to heal injured soldiers after a serious battle. Well, she is much better at killing people than she would be at healing, but nothing stops her from healing the soldiers anyway.

However she does not heal anybody, I was wondering why and it turns out that there would be a huge price in case that she did that:

If people are healed by Mages in that world, your injuries or disease would indeed vanish and you would be fine. The problem would show up a few weeks later, because the fact that you were healed with Magic means that you were exposed to it in a very personal and direct way and this has a consequence.

The consequence is that your body starts to rot, and you soon die a painful and terrible death.

In this case, there is a price for Magic but it affects the ordinary people instead of the Mages. I really love this concept! It has been one of the many nice surprises that this story in particular has given me.

Some stories work well with very limited Magic that is full of prices and consequences, while other stories do great with Magic more like the one so common in my works. To say that Magic should always have a price or always be rare, is the same as saying that Mages should always be capable of annihilating entire armies and cities.

Imagine freely, and enjoy your Fantasy world and your stories.

Two other interesting prices for Magic can be seen in the _Merlin_ TV series, in which saving or creating a life with the help of magic means that another life must be destroyed, and the Foster's Effect from the world of _The Worst Witch_. Foster's Effect means that if the Witches use too much magic, said magic goes out of control like a storm and causes all types of trouble and disasters.

Fantasy is beautiful.


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## Simpson17866 (Jun 6, 2017)

The main cost of magic in my world (in addition to materials and exhaustion) is time: you can spend 10,000 hours becoming an expert at playing the piano, you can spend 10,000 hours becoming an expert at dirt bike racing, or you can spend 5,000 hours on each becoming a functional amateur at both. Likewise, my two Fire mages will eventually become capable of summoning raging infernoes, but they will both start out as "human Zippo lighters" (to quote my favorite Stephen King novel).

There are numerous forms of magic available to learn, and depending on what a mage cares the most about learning, the mage might end up with low power and high range (jack of all trades), high power and low range (master of one), or medium power and medium range.


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## Khryses (Jun 10, 2017)

In one of my worlds (my higher fantasy one) there's an element of time spent for novice users to learn new patterns to empower as well as practice with similar patterns improving their aptitude and energy-efficiency. 

The bigger cost is where those energies come from, as the world doesn't have "mana" per se. 

Typically it takes years for a novice to learn how to tap into the world's energies; the natural currents running deep through the land. Before this they are limited to drawing on life energies, their own or other (willing?) donors. In moderation this will exhaust the donor. Drawn over-heavily this can shave years off their life, or even kill them at once.

When the user can draw on the land they have orders of magnitude more energy to work with, without risking killing themselves by overly ambitious workings. The catch is, the land remembers and over time certain areas have been corrupted by evils and civilization's petty concerns alike. Drawing energy through these areas steadily corrodes the geomancer's sanity until (in later ages of the world) they invariably die at someone's hands. This means once geomancers spend the minimum time and energy needed to plausibly claim to be trained, they are mostly very reluctant to use their greater powers any more than they are forced to. They trade on what they _could_ do if they chose to. 

In one of my later settings in this world a small band of "high magi" have learned to draw energy from the stars themselves (a combination of aptitude and learned technique). As the continent-spanning empire fell into the hands of lesser rulers, the high magi begin to rule 'for the greater good', and power and good intentions drive them to plunge the empire into bloody civil war (and apparently mutual extermination).

This leads to the latest setting, where those lucky few born with the gift of magic are 'privileged' to spend their days working for the good of their city as a second-class citizen (read: unofficial slave) with minimal training, using their own life magic to duplicate basic foodstuffs all day long. Experimentation in blood, earth or star magic is strictly forbidden and punishable by death.


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## Fyr (Jun 28, 2017)

In my story, Sages (magically empowered people) don't technically have a _limit_ to their power. The spiritual energy that inhibits them to use their magic gushes through their heads, and then stops when their stores of magic are full. This happens so quickly you never run out of magic, so people kind of forget about it.
However, this process--magic rushing into one's head, and quickly rushing again out of it--strains the mind. It manifests as a buzz, that quickly heightens into physical pain in the head. Once a Sage hears the Wail, it means he or she has gone too far. The slightest use of magic would cause that person's head to explode. (Usually that person will have passed out long before then, from the pain.)


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## psychotick (Jun 28, 2017)

Hi,

I'm less into magic having a cost than magic having limits. So in general I like the idea that a caster has to learn his spells, practice them endlessly to become proficient with them. And even then there are things that are beyond them. So a healer may become more and more proficient, able to cure more serious injuries, but never be able to cure death. In the Arcanist I used this to divide my casters into three levels depending on their magical power - sparks, flames and powers. Since my hero was only a spark, he had to use his magic in conjunction with his other skills like his mechanical skill, to achieve his goals, and to quake in his boots when he met a power - which is an almost godlike being.

I have used social costs though. Certain types of magic being frowned upon or abhored. So in Wolves I had shifters, hunted and killed just for having that gift. 

Likewise I like the unexpected consequences of a misused spell. So again in Wolves, I had my wizards - some at least - trying to reach for magic that was beyond them and in the process becoming horribly deformed and crippled.

Cheers, Greg.


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## Tom (Jun 28, 2017)

The magic system in my high fantasy project has limits and cost. A mage is essentially a physical conduit for magic--their limit is how much their body can handle. Some mages stop using magic when they start to feel drained, while others push themselves until complete exhaustion sets in. Anything past that they risk falling into a coma or even death. 

Magic also has a cost--it plays havoc with a user's mind and body if uncontrolled. It leaves physical scars, often patches of depigmented skin, and damages nerves, causing chronic pain. Mages who struggled to master their craft (or people who were injured extensively by magic) often appear to have vitiligo. Psychological effects manifest as PTSD-like symptoms, hallucinations and night terrors being the most common. Using magic for a long time can also cause strange mutations.


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## Rkcapps (Jun 30, 2017)

Now the next question is how much time (i.e. pages/word count) do you spend on training? Because I don't want to bore a reader.

Learning must (to my mind) occur with some conflict (in some cases the learning can be dangerous and enough conflict I realise) and a reader shouldn't be bored.


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## SMAndy85 (Jul 7, 2017)

My world is fairly low-magic in comparison to others. People won't be throwing fireballs that torch an entire town, or summoning enough water to drown a herd of elephants.

The cost comes in attaining it in the first place. On my world, "magic" is attained by questing into dangerous caves filled with potentially lethal volcanic gases. Should you get far enough, you find places where the raw energy of the planet fuses into stones. Take that stone, and have it implanted in your skin. It attunes itself to you, so only you can use it, and then you gain access to magic. The more stones you have of a particular kind, the more powerful you are, but there are only so many places on the body you can have them implanted, so you're limited.

Not many people have them, because it could kill you just to get a single stone. They are few and far between enough that should you find one, you make haste to exit the caves. If you are greedy and try for more, chances are a puff of sulphurous gas suffocates you, and it's all over. A special order of priests oversee these challenges.

I haven't yet decided what powers are available through this, but that's my idea


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## Chekaman (Jul 9, 2017)

Sort of off topic in parts, but some of this submission of mine from another site might help you.

*1-Evil Magic is more fun *

Evil magic is thought by most writers of magical spells to be both much easier to make and much more fun. Which would you rather spend time making-a complex, lengthy spell to cure cancer, or a quick spell that creates purple lightning to fry your foes with? Therefore most known spells are evil in nature. 



*2-War, war,war*

Most magic is made by the wizardly equivalent of the military industrial complex and is used for war, to kill and injure soldiers and destroy forts and military machines. The victims of such magic often think of it as evil even when it is no more evil than swords or musketry fire. Of course some such military magic is very evil indeed. 

*3-Good Magic is highly restricted *

In many countries it is not just evil magic that is tightly controlled and clamped down on. Healing magic can put skilled doctors out of work. Magic that automates tools puts large numbers of workers out of work, and the workers then either turn to crime to survive, or have to be paid benefits by the government which would much rather spend the money on other things. 

*4-Only demons grant magic *

The only way that mortals can get access to magic is by making deals with demons, and they are unlikely to grant any spells that are going to let their users go to the celestial realm after death and thus escape their clutches, as mortal souls are a currency in the Nine Hells. Therefore the spells that mortals have access to are evil. 

*5-Magic gets out of control *

Any magic that is cast is like a fire in a dry forest and quickly gets out of control, and fills the mind of the caster with a huge wish for power, and this applies to any spell bigger than a cantrip. As a result most magic users end up twisted and evil and a little deranged. 

*6-Good magic is harder to cast *

Learning *good* magic such as healing takes many years of study to stop it going random, whilst combat magic and *evil* magic is much easier to use. Therefore most magic is slightly or indeed completely evil. 

*7-Magic warps the user*

Magic has a very good chance of leaving it's user warped to the point of gross insanity who is likely to go on a rampage and slaughter everyone nearby and even healing and other neutral and indeed good magic has the same effect, therefore few good people will dare to cast spells. 

*8-Good magic hurts the caster*

When someone casts a good spell such as a spell to heal someone or even a neutral spell it drains his or her life force to power the spell and can have fatal or at least sickening results. Combat magic and evil magic on the other hand drains the needed power from the target of the spell and is therefore used more often. 

*9-Only one gender may cast good or neutral magic*

Because a great archmage or archwitch was extremely sexist long ago an incredibly powerful spell was cast which means that one gender (the GM chooses) can only cast evil magic, and is therefore legally banned from casting spells. Perhaps the PCs are on a quest to break this spell. 

*10-Good magic was successfully suppressed *

Because it was threatening the jobs of the elite and the humble worker alike and was of little value to the underworld , good and neutral magic was successfully brought to an end after several years of campaigning against it, and the exile, execution or jailing of it's users. Whilst there was a campaign against bad magic too, it was kept in being by the mafia who found it too useful to give up. 

*11-Good magic needs fancy stuff*

To cast good or indeed neutral magic you need rare and expensive paraphernalia such as a six foot staff of rare pico-wood, the gems from a dragon's hoard or a royal sceptre whilst evil magic just needs the right knowledge , the power of speech, and waggling fingers. Legal magic is therefore very much restricted to the nobility. 

*12-Only the Order of X can do good magic *

A certain magical order of mages has monopolised the casting of good and neutral magic in the area, and whilst they occasionally fight malignant mages and wicked witches for the good publicity, they come down very hard and sometimes fatally on those who threaten their magical monopoly. And they are not the sort of mages that you want to mess with. 

*13-Leave me alone please!*

Once the news gets around that someone can cast good/neutral magic, they are badgered and hassled by beggars and average people alike begging for magical favours and gifts,
most of who cannot afford to pay for it. Therefore most such people keep their magical skills to themselves. Evil magic users don't have that problem as most people are either too scared to bother them, don't want to, or fear legal trouble if found out.

*14-Good mages get conscription *

The local ruler has a like of conscription for any good and neutral mages that his forces can catch, and they are then conscripted into his projects for months or years on end, building, healing, or scrying for him for low pay. Bad magic users are much more willing to do whatever they need to do to avoid being rounded up. 

*15-Good magic causes bad luck*

Good and to a lesser extent even neutral magic cases bad luck. Neutral magic just causes bad luck for the caster but good magic causes bad luck to anyone nearby as well and is therefore unwelcome at best and illegal at worst. Oddly, evil magic causes good luck for everyone nearby except the target of the spell.


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## Chekaman (Jul 9, 2017)

*16-Good magic is impossible *

Good or neutral magic is nothing more than a myth. The only magic known to exist is that which is used for evil ends, to kill, wound, bewitch people or raise the dead. As such, most areas ban it outright for safety reasons. 

*17-The gods don't like magic and like good magic least of all*

The gods and goddesses see magic and in particular neutral/good magic as a threat to themselves personally and react accordingly, with anything from a bad afterlife for the caster when he or she dies to instant death by lightning. They are more tolerant of evil magic, as the user is most likely going to hell after death even without their intervention. 

*18-The demons hate good magic*

Demons hate good magic and see it as a threat to them and are not all that keen on neutral magic either. And it takes a powerful magic user to fend off one of the Greater Demons when they show up. 

*19-A good spell for one is a curse for another*

If you use magic to heal someone's sight for example, someone a mile away goes blind. When a good spell is cast on someone, it harms someone else or causes them bad luck and the caster is not going to be popular to say the least. Many areas ban all use of magic because of this. 

*20-Good magic polymorphs the user*

Good magic polymorphs the user into some other form, such as a fairy of some type. Evil magic also has the same effect but turns the user into an Orc or some similar creature. Only neutral magic has no such effect. 

*21-Good magic argues with the user*

Magic is a living force, and it only casts itself when it wants to. It likes things such as combat magic, curses, and necromancy, but is bored by good or neutral tasks, and the caster has to beg and plead for the magic to do what he or she wants it to. 

*22-Good magic can only be cast in a holy place *

Non evil magic can only be cast in a holy place that has not been profaned by evil. As such the owners of said place have extremely strict rules for who can cast and when and what spells can be cast there. Evil spells on the other hand can be cast almost everywhere as there is far more evil energy in the world than good energy. 

*23-Good magic is really hard to learn *

Good magic is like advanced calculus -really hard to learn, and neutral magic is almost as hard to learn. In comparison evil magic is like learning basic secondary school mathematics and is therefore much more common.

*24-Good magic warps the area into a Disney like world for miles around*

Good magic warps the entire nearby area into a Walt Disney like world for miles around. Crowds of people suddenly find themselves breaking out into random songs and complicated dance routines against their will. Kisses suddenly make women pregnant or make them fall in love with the kisser. Military forts become huge multi towered palaces where the garrison is suddenly far too small to hold the walls successfully. Animals talk and brooms come to life and flood houses with buckets of unwanted water.

Queen Yocasta once took a small castle by having a wizard heal a blind man, causing a castle meant for a garrison of 150 men to turn into a giant royal palace ten miles in diameter. With the garrison now stretched really thin it was easy for her army to scale the walls. On top of that she had a ready made royal palace to rule from.

*25-Good magic harms the one you love*

Good magic causes bad things, like diseases, curses or bad luck, to happen to the person that the caster loves most, and as you can imagine few people will willingly cast it as a result unless they have to.

*26-Good magic is like a love spell *

If you cast good magic on someone the person falls headlong in love and lust with you, whilst neutral magic makes them want to date you, only evil magic not causing these effects.

*27-Good magic costs more *

Because it is harder to create in the first place, good or neutral magic costs much more to buy then most of the evil stuff. Sometimes much more.

*28-Magic twists the caster's personality*

Whilst evil spells turn the Mage or witch into a power hungry person who only cares about themselves, good magic makes them only care about the happiness of others. Most people don't like either fate and so are very careful to cast only the most neutral spells.

*29-Good magic sends the user to heaven *

Good magic causes the user to have his or her soul snatched up to the celestial realm, just as bad magic causes the soul to be snatched down to the infernal realm.Most people who wish to go on living in the mortal world only cast strictly neutral magic.

*30-Good magic lowers your sex drive *

Non-evil magic lowers the caster's sex drive for weeks at a time whilst bad magic raises it instead and there are those who use minor curses for others as a form of magical Viagra for themselves. Monks and nuns who feel tempted someuse good magic for the opposite effect.


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## DeathtoTrite (Jul 9, 2017)

Rkcapps said:


> Now the next question is how much time (i.e. pages/word count) do you spend on training? Because I don't want to bore a reader.
> 
> Learning must (to my mind) occur with some conflict (in some cases the learning can be dangerous and enough conflict I realise) and a reader shouldn't be bored.



I've struggled with this. Personally, I think I prefer edging on too much time skips/ "training montage" type things... Dr. Strange would be a good example for me. But maybe I'm just somewhat scarred from that second book in the Inheritance Series.


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## megamoo (Jul 21, 2017)

I watched Brandon Sanderson's lectures on magic and I think Magic definitely needs to have limits to be interesting.  The interesting part being how people in the world adapt, try to subvert the rules.

I read a book a long time ago about Tide Lords where magical strength slowly rises and falls in users over a long period of time like tides ebbing and flowing.  Interesting concept although I didn't think much of the book itself.

Having a controlling variable out of the magic users control is an easy way to put limits on magic and create tension because you know the characters are really going to need the magic when its unavailable.

Having a price that is simply a physical resource like metal or a plant would make that thing really valuable.  

I've thought about magic requiring the freely given collaboration of at least two people to work.  Characters can't just walk around blowing stuff up.  

You could put a time/amount limit on someone's magic.  After a certain age their powers disappear.  Or once they use a certain amount of magic it runs out for them.  Or all of their accumulated power transfers to some other random person.  People would save their magic use when it counted.

You could have some sort of sex magic.  You only get x amount of spells for x amount of orgasms?  That would make for some interesting exposition.


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