# Unicorns?



## Ireth (Jun 2, 2012)

In my WIP _Summer's Blood_, the protagonists come across multiple unicorns at various points on their quest through Faerie. The first two they encounter are a mother and her baby; the heroine of the novel rescues the baby unicorn from a dry well that it falls into. Much later they meet a male unicorn, probably the mate of the aforesaid mother unicorn, which one of the heroes rescues from some trouble; it serves an important purpose in the climax.

My question is, do you think the unicorns should be more on the people-with-hooves end of the scale, with the means to actually communicate with the protagonists (telepathy, perhaps), or more like animals with above-average intelligence? I don't want them to be purely animal like the unicorns in HP seem to be, because the fact that my unicorns are capable of understanding human speech (more so than a trained dog could) and even knowingly repaying debts means they have to be reasonably smart. I just don't want it to seem silly if I make them TOO intelligent. Your thoughts?


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## Graylorne (Jun 2, 2012)

You could give them the mindset of an elephant, who cares for her young, mourn the dead, have a sense of humor, use tools and never forget who their enemies are. Perhaps they could communicate in mental pictures, instead of words?

Somehow the other end, a centaur-like unicorn, doesn't feel very Faerie..


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## Ireth (Jun 2, 2012)

Good idea, Graylorne. I like that. 

I don't mean "people with hooves" to refer to the unicorns being like centaurs. I mean that they'd still be horse-shaped (more or less; they have horsey heads and bodies and deer-like legs), but with human-like personalities and intelligence.


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## Graylorne (Jun 2, 2012)

But what would they do with their intelligence without arms? Thinkers, philosophers?

That's why I thought of centaurs, able to manipulate things. Besides, pure white, elegant centaurs with horns would be something of a novelty...


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## Ireth (Jun 2, 2012)

That's true, but that to me says more "hybrid" than "pure unicorn", and there are no centaurs mentioned at all in this series. I can kind of see a Pooka mating with a unicorn, if the Pooka was in equine form at the time... or maybe there's a Daoine Sidhe or other permanently-humanoid Fae out there who's into bestiality?

*sideways glance at Fiachra and his horse* >.>;

...nevermind, the horse is male. Fiachra's quite straight. But yeah.


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## Graylorne (Jun 2, 2012)

Well, what's not there can't breed.

But hybrid, your pooka has a goblin-form and accidents can happen. Only would the result be pleasing? What would it be, a ubigob?


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## Ireth (Jun 2, 2012)

...I dunno if I even want to think about what a goblicorn would look like. XDDD Might run counter to the overall mood of the story as well.


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## Graylorne (Jun 2, 2012)

Quite probably. I 'm not a unicorn-expert, really. The only unicorn I have story-wise is in a concept. It's sarcastic, sour and actually a dethroned and bewitched elf-king. I don't really see my way in that story atm.

Probably your super-intelligent animal-type would be easier.


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## Queshire (Jun 2, 2012)

Hmmm.... so let me guess, in the climax the unicorns have a big damn heroes moment where they come to the protagonist's assisstance?

If their only appearance is when they get helped by the protagonist and they then help the protagonist in turn, I'd just give them above-animal-not-quite-human intelligence. Human intelligence means speech, speech means talking to the protagonists and saying why they helped out. That's a scene you have to splice into your story that doesn't have anything to do with the plot. With above-animal-not-quite-human intelligence, there's no need for them to explain or talk to the protagonist.


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## Ireth (Jun 2, 2012)

Queshire said:


> Hmmm.... so let me guess, in the climax the unicorns have a big damn heroes moment where they come to the protagonist's assisstance?
> 
> If their only appearance is when they get helped by the protagonist and they then help the protagonist in turn, I'd just give them above-animal-not-quite-human intelligence. Human intelligence means speech, speech means talking to the protagonists and saying why they helped out. That's a scene you have to splice into your story that doesn't have anything to do with the plot. With above-animal-not-quite-human intelligence, there's no need for them to explain or talk to the protagonist.



Yup, pretty much, though it's just one unicorn who shows up at the climax rather than a whole herd. And he doesn't come thundering in at the exact right moment, he's actually there shortly beforehand. But the effect is still the same, he still does his part to help save the day. XD

The reason the unicorns help the heroes out is quite simple -- the heroes helped them first, they're just repaying the debt. It's a bit of a theme throughout the book and its prequel.


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## ScipioSmith (Jun 3, 2012)

Graylorne said:


> But what would they do with their intelligence without arms? Thinkers, philosophers?
> .



Why, star in a children's animated franchise of course!

But seriously, I think if they are going to be able to comprehend the ideas of debt and repayment, as seems to be necessary, then they need to be pretty much human in intellect. They don't need to be able to talk to humans, so long as everyone understands that they are in fact on their intellectual level.


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## Jess A (Jun 3, 2012)

Unicorns could be somewhat intelligent, but in a different way to humans. Perhaps the unicorns are simple creatures, but not necessarily dumb. They might communicate in mental 'images' and feelings, not words, as Graylorne mentioned above. I use thought-images in my stories quite often. Not as easy to describe as words, of course, but quite fun.

As for level of intelligence, that is quite a lengthy conversation in itself. They probably don't need to be philosophers or thinkers or inventors. They may live simply and understand the world in simple terms, but they may also be able to form emotional attachments to each other and understand returning a favour, or understand some sense of honor.

Or, they may just return the favour because it's 'how it's done'. There is no real feeling of obligation in the way humans understand it, but in a way their species does. They may not even specifically feel 'gratitude'. I picture aloof creatures with a higher level of intelligence (including emotional) than most animals, but with an intelligence that need only match their world.


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## gavintonks (Jun 3, 2012)

male is a stallion
female - mare
child - foal
it is fantasy they can be anything you want


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## Ireth (Jun 18, 2012)

I'm having major issues with the unicorns' method of mental communication. I can't decide whether mental images/projection of memories or projection of emotions, or a combination of the two, would be better for the story. Mental images would be hard, especially given the biological differences between a horse (or horse-like creature) and a human -- horses see colors differently than we do, for one thing, and I have NO idea how to get that across in writing. Emotions is by far the easier route to take, but it might not be enough for a certain scene later on in the novel.

Some context, for sake of clarity:

Scene 1 - A unicorn colt falls down a well, and Ariel, the virginal teenage heroine, goes down after it. She tries to calm the colt, and it bombards her mind with emotions and/or images in its panic. Ariel helps get the colt out of the well, it mother heals its injury, and everything's good. Both unicorns and MCs go on their merry way.

Scene 2 - Much later, Dom, a middle-aged bachelor protagonist, is separated from the rest of the MCs, and comes across an adult unicorn (either the mother or father of the aforementioned colt) stuck in a snare. Dom goes to free the unicorn, and the unicorn communicates mentally with him, showing that it remembers the colt being freed from the well, and that Dom was there when that happened. Dom tries to communicate back, focusing on the other MCs and his desire to be reunited with them. The unicorn then decides to help Dom, letting him ride on its back while they look for the other MCs.

Scene 3 - 



Spoiler: the novel's climax



Not too long after the MCs are reunited, chaos ensues when the antagonists find the MCs. Dom is gravely injured, and after some urgent pleading from other characters and being reminded that Dom saved the unicorn from a snare, the unicorn uses its horn to heal Dom's injury, saving his life.


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## BeigePalladin (Jun 18, 2012)

I'd say the highly intelegant animal version would work better, just because if you make it clear its intelegant without being human, it can still be just as intelegant as a human, just think in a different way - it'd still come off as an animal since it woudn;t act human regarldess of how smart it was (we judge animals on how human they act, not how intelegant)

Though less intelegant than that works too. many creatures will repay debts and the like without being extremly intelegant, simply because they recognize the thing they owe the debt to as something that aided them and thus advantageous for it to continue to exist so long as it didn't threaten the creature itself (healing/freeing something that helped you and you don;t see as food is actually a survival tactic, so I can see pretty much any non-suicidal beast doing so). and even without full intelect, its still a pretty romantic and dramatic notion (think androwhatsisface and the lion...) 

The only one I can't really see working is the "its a human that looks like a horse..." as thats just dull and boring and often feels like its a unicorn just to name drop a fantasy creature...


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## Saigonnus (Jun 18, 2012)

I think an intelligent animal is about right, but even if they were highly intelligent, say the same intellect as the humans, there would be much they could do via magic. If they are capable of communication through Telepathy/Empathy, it wouldn't be that far of a stretch to other mental disciplines like Clairvoyance, Clairaudience,Telekinesis etc. The thing i've often wondered about Telepathy is the communication itself; how would an experienced telepath communicate with someone with no training at all? Just force their way in? How would that work with humans without training, but with the mental control enough to keep them out? Would a supposedly "good" creature literally batter through someone's mental defenses to speak to them if it wasn't of dire importance?

I think perhaps it could be good to give them the ability of empathy as well, so they can "exude" feelings of calm so they can ease their way through any mental blockages.  Just my thoughts.


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## Ireth (Jun 18, 2012)

I like the idea of empathy and the like, but I think telekinesis is a bit of a stretch -- if the unicorns are telekinetic, then the mother could have easily lifted the colt out of the well by herself, thus negating any need for the human and Fae protagonists to step in. Ditto with the other rescue later in the story.

In the case of the injured colt, it's a very young telepath/empath communicating with a clueless human. The colt is injured and frightened, so it would just be battering the girl's mind with the basic idea of "help me, it hurts!" Once the protagonists learn that unicorns are telepathic/empathic, the one who meets another unicorn in trouble later on would anticipate that and make an attempt to communicate to it in the same way.


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## Saigonnus (Jun 18, 2012)

I had that thought also after the fact, and it does indeed seem silly. I remember having unicorns like that in a game is all.


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## Ireth (Jun 18, 2012)

I wouldn't call it silly, just superfluous in this case. There are telekinetic unicorns elsewhere, like in My Little Pony.


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## SeverinR (Jun 18, 2012)

My unicorns are not geniuses, they learn from their elders and from life experience. They live a long life, a young unicorn is as stupid as a young human. 

My unicorns have the ability to heal injuries, and go in depth on why they prefer virgins. Basically, They are nauseated around anyone that is not pure, the feeling starts at about 15 feet from the unicorn, and is multiplied by each unpure person.  If they were to go into a town, they would surely die.
They can heal someone that is not pure, but the nausea will be overwhealming. 

They are rarely seen, because the more corrupted the person, the less likely their mind will see the ultimate goodness that is a unicorn, plus they know how to hide in their enviroment, like camoflauge.  

My Unicorns can't speak, they have vocal chords equal to a horse, but they have touch telepathy. They can communicate endlessly with anyone touching them. The communication is not one on one, so if more then one person is touching the unicorn, it can get confusing.
The horn is magical, it can harm as easily as it can heal. It is also very valuble if cut from a unicorn. The horn can penetrate full armor as if it were tin foil.

My unicorns prefer to harm life only as a last resort, even evil lives. Killing brings depression. Good and evil is a balance that should be carefully maintained. 

Basically, a wise tree hugger goodie-goodie, that also loves harmless pranks.

One area I did not go into was unicorn breeding and unpure unicorns. I guess the good of the unicorn is not soiled by procreation, but never went into it.


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## Ireth (Jun 18, 2012)

My unicorns prefer virgins of both sexes as well, and will drive away any non-virgin who tries to touch them. They communicate telepathically/empathically between fellow unicorns and also virgins. Their horns have healing powers. and any mane and tail hair that they shed is gathered by the Fae for various uses, including reinforcing ropes and doing fancy embroidery, because it is both quite tough and very shiny, comparable to mithril. Some have speculated that enough of the hair woven into cloth could act like chainmail.


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## Saigonnus (Jun 18, 2012)

I mean no disrespect to you, your opinions and your choices, but I have always despised the whole depiction of "have to be a virgin" to touch or even talk to a unicorn and preferred to paint them almost like a regular part of the flora/fauna of the land. Since they are empathic and telepathic they'd be able to tell fairly well when someone wishes them harm and could defend themselves or flee accordingly. I would think unicorns would be perfectly fine with a "lawful good" character in general since they generally don't kill without the "incentive" of being killed themselves. They hold themselves aloof of people in most cases anyway, but I don't think they would flee if such a character happened upon them. If the empathy was "at range" like they could feel someone in the woods a hundred yards away or more, that would be more than enough time for the unicorn to decide what to do.


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## Ireth (Jun 18, 2012)

Well, looking at the story as it is right now: the mortals would be very familiar with folklore and the "unicorns like virgin girls" trope, so the males choose to stay back and let the girl help the injured colt. (The one Fae in their group has never been close to a unicorn, so he wouldn't know otherwise, and he isn't a virgin anyway). Dom even talks about the trope when the colt is being rescued, saying that it's sexist and "women get all the perks." The kicker comes when Dom finds a unicorn and helps it, even being allowed to ride it -- nobody else expected a unicorn to let a man within three feet of it, even if the man was an unmarried virgin.

I do rather like your ideas better than mine, it's just hard to put them into play when the only ones who get to touch unicorns are virgins. Switching my ideas up and having one of the non-virgin men be the one to help the second unicorn might work, if the man in question was willing to risk being gored if his belief about unicorns was actually true -- Dom does take the risk, as he sees it, because he isn't a girl. He gets off unharmed, of course, but that doesn't prove anything with regards to non-virgins and unicorns.


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## BeigePalladin (Jun 18, 2012)

I too have never understand that "will only let fmale virgins touch me" thing; I mean, being a female virgin does not in any way make ou a good person, you could be a psychotic mass murderer and the frakking horn-horse would go and be freindly with it, but a rape-victim saint would be gorred... (I dislike that trope, can you tell...)



> I do rather like your ideas better than mine, it's just hard to put them into play when the only ones who get to touch unicorns are virgins.



is their virginosity a plot point for anything else, otherwise it can eaisly be dropped? or their virginess/non-birginess could eaisly be not mentioned if it is a point.


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## Ireth (Jun 18, 2012)

Heh. Yeah, I can tell you don't like the trope. Those are some good points. ^^

No, their virginity isn't a plot point for anything else, it's just something that's remarked upon and then dropped. The love life of the Fae is never mentioned, and the other man in the group is the girl's father, so is therefore obviously not a virgin. I had thought of doing a more Harry Potter-like approach, where unicorns just prefer girls to boys regardless of whether or not they're a virgin, but that's still problematic as well. All in all, I think the "good people versus bad people" is a better idea than "virgin versus non-virgin."


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## BeigePalladin (Jun 18, 2012)

aye, especially for empaths. if they get a previous view of the aproachee then it would be beliveable that a unicorn would be able to pick/choose who's coming close, whch may also help avoid sticking unicorns with a hat (other than the hron) by having unicorns that might prefer other people than just good...


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## Ireth (Jun 18, 2012)

That's very true. I'm pretty sure the Dresden Files series has an Unseelie unicorn in one of the books, so it wouldn't be entirely unique if I were to use it (not that I'm saying I should let that stop me). I personally prefer the image of unicorns as "pure" creatures anyway, but that's just me.


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## Sheilawisz (Jun 18, 2012)

Ireth, I am fascinated by unicorns and they are part of my Fantasy stories too... My unicorns are just animals that are quite intelligent (way more intelligent than horses) but they do not have human-level intelligence and cannot talk or communicate directly with my characters.

My opinion is that unicorns should not be like people with hooves, but they are not ordinary animals either: They are something else, something different and unique, and maybe their intelligence is quite a different _type_ of intelligence and they would think in a way that is neither animal nor human.

Communication between humans and unicorns by means of mental images, or maybe by dreams, would definitely add a touch of mystery and magic to a Fantasy story =)

Since this thread discusses a type of Fantasy creature, I have moved it from Writing Questions to the World Building forum.


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## SeverinR (Jun 20, 2012)

Ireth said:


> My unicorns prefer virgins of both sexes as well, and will drive away any non-virgin who tries to touch them. They communicate telepathically/empathically between fellow unicorns and also virgins. Their horns have healing powers. and any mane and tail hair that they shed is gathered by the Fae for various uses, including reinforcing ropes and doing fancy embroidery, because it is both quite tough and very shiny, comparable to mithril. Some have speculated that enough of the hair woven into cloth could act like chainmail.


I like the mane and tail hair use, hadn't thought of that.



Saigonnus said:


> I mean no disrespect to you, your opinions and your choices, but I have always despised the whole depiction of "have to be a virgin" to touch or even talk to a unicorn and preferred to paint them almost like a regular part of the flora/fauna of the land. Since they are empathic and telepathic they'd be able to tell fairly well when someone wishes them harm and could defend themselves or flee accordingly. I would think unicorns would be perfectly fine with a "lawful good" character in general since they generally don't kill without the "incentive" of being killed themselves. They hold themselves aloof of people in most cases anyway, but I don't think they would flee if such a character happened upon them. If the empathy was "at range" like they could feel someone in the woods a hundred yards away or more, that would be more than enough time for the unicorn to decide what to do.


Like I said, my unicorns prefer virgins, because unpure make them nauseaus. 



BeigePalladin said:


> I too have never understand that "will only let fmale virgins touch me" thing; I mean, being a female virgin does not in any way make ou a good person, you could be a psychotic mass murderer and the frakking horn-horse would go and be freindly with it, but a rape-victim saint would be gorred... (I dislike that trope, can you tell...)
> 
> 
> 
> is their virginosity a plot point for anything else, otherwise it can eaisly be dropped? or their virginess/non-birginess could eaisly be not mentioned if it is a point.


My MC that talks with the unicorn talks of having the unicorn meet her best friend, then realizes she has probably been raped.
The unicorn explains purity is a state of mind, not of body.
The 10 yr old boy(they know) who is perverted and sex obcessed but still a virgin would sicken the unicorn, but a rape victim could still be pure of heart, thus the unicorn could be around her.

I use the touch communication as a humorous and annoying hinderence.

Paraphrased:
"Why did you let him attack me?" She screamed, "Answer me!" She turns angrily to look at the Unicorn."Your not even going to talk to me?" Diamon shakes her head, and walks forward, laying her head against her arm.
"I could not harm him until he was trying to harm you."


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## Sheilawisz (Jun 20, 2012)

In one of my stories I have an arctic-like type of white unicorns that live in extreme cold and very high elevation: They have special hooves that allow them to run very fast and climb through snow and ice, they can travel for very long distances and their very long horns are made of crystal.

These unicorns cannot talk, but they are way more intelligent than any other "normal" kind of animal... and they can be friends with people, letting you to ride them and travel across the mountains =)

I want to ride a unicorn, just like I want my magical broom to go flying to the Mall!!


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## Saigonnus (Jun 21, 2012)

SeverinR said:


> Like I said, my unicorns prefer virgins, because unpure make them nauseaus.



Hence the reason for empathy... no need for them to even get close to an "impure" person in that case. The unicorns I have opted for don't get "nauseaus" around impurity, they just tend to steer clear of people or creatures that have an unbalanced or overtly hostile nature; ones that couldd possibly do them harm. If it comes down to it, and the need is there, a unicorn would potentially put themselves in danger to accomplish a greater good (rescuing their baby or member of the herd).


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## Eeirail (Jun 21, 2012)

Ireth said:


> In my WIP _Summer's Blood_, the protagonists come across multiple unicorns at various points on their quest through Faerie. The first two they encounter are a mother and her baby; the heroine of the novel rescues the baby unicorn from a dry well that it falls into. Much later they meet a male unicorn, probably the mate of the aforesaid mother unicorn, which one of the heroes rescues from some trouble; it serves an important purpose in the climax.
> 
> My question is, do you think the unicorns should be more on the people-with-hooves end of the scale, with the means to actually communicate with the protagonists (telepathy, perhaps), or more like animals with above-average intelligence? I don't want them to be purely animal like the unicorns in HP seem to be, because the fact that my unicorns are capable of understanding human speech (more so than a trained dog could) and even knowingly repaying debts means they have to be reasonably smart. I just don't want it to seem silly if I make them TOO intelligent. Your thoughts?



Personally, I think it should be something else, something more mystical then then that, not to mention the "people-with-hooves" Would no longer be a unicorn I do not believe. I would say make them a different vision rather then just the horse with a horn, add something more, like maybe make it a different animal, make it more intresting.


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## Ireth (Jun 21, 2012)

Eeirail said:


> Personally, I think it should be something else, something more mystical then then that, not to mention the "people-with-hooves" Would no longer be a unicorn I do not believe. I would say make them a different vision rather then just the horse with a horn, add something more, like maybe make it a different animal, make it more intresting.



Well, my unicorns aren't entirely horse-like; they have the heads and bodies of horses and the legs of deer, which is kind of like some myths of unicorns describe them (horse's head, deer's body, goat's legs and lion's tail). I was inspired by the animated movie version of _The Last Unicorn_, which is rather stylized and has a unicorn with very spindly legs.


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## Eeirail (Jun 21, 2012)

Ireth said:


> Well, my unicorns aren't entirely horse-like; they have the heads and bodies of horses and the legs of deer, which is kind of like some myths of unicorns describe them (horse's head, deer's body, goat's legs and lion's tail). I was inspired by the animated movie version of _The Last Unicorn_, which is rather stylized and has a unicorn with very spindly legs.


That sounds more like a Chimera to me in all actuality


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## Queshire (Jun 21, 2012)

Considering the basic template is "horse with horn" I'd say all unicorns are inheirantly chimeric.

I haven't featured Unicorns in any of my story ideas, and I don't really plan to in the future, but quickly thinking, I'd put them on the same level as dragons or phenoix (I seriously doubt that's spelt right... bluh...) creatures that straddle the line between material and etheral, dangerous both magically and physically, nearly impossible to kill, and thankfully mostly unconcerned with other mortals. These types of creatures are like those optional bossess in rpgs that are harder then the final boss.

Keeping with the tropes, Unicorns are assossiated with Light and Purity but that by no means makes them good. They are extremely dangerous and are as likely to ignore you, help you, or shoot lazers at you no matter how pure or impure you consider yourself, appearently by following some criteria only they know.

As for the vigin thing, just how much someone's viginity matters varies from unicorn to unicorn but it's generally preferable to let the vigin deal with unicorns. This prefrence for vigins isn't because of any precieved morality of sex, but because sex results in the two people's essences mixing.


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