# Making a twisted relationship work



## Christopher Michael (Feb 3, 2017)

So here's the setup:
In my WIP, I have Sirens among my other fantastic beings. Now, most of the lore regarding them I've kept- the magic of their voice and touch is there, the ability to completely overwhelm lesser beings (primarily humans) and bend them to their will. I've made one notable change:
If Siren's attempt to use their magic on each other, in a form of what I'm temporarily calling "seduction combat" it has a curious side effect. The loser of that combat is magically bound to the winner. They cannot operate in opposition to the desires of the winner. They cannot betray or attack them. They are utterly subservient to them. 
They can be freed, but it takes a deliberate decision on the part of the dominant. All Sirens know this from birth. It is a part of their raising- and they've seen it in action.

Now for the problem. My protagonist is a siren, one of the most powerful to ever live. But he's been raised as a human, and had no access to the magic of that birthright until recently. (It's much more complicated than this, but    this is enough to get going on.) What that means is he has absolutely no idea of this particular aspect of his new nature and powers.
Now the ultimate antagonist sends a female siren, quite powerful in her own right, to seduce and kill the protagonist. Unfortunately, she loses the fight and becomes bound to the protagonist.
Now here's where it gets twisted. "Because Plot", the protag is going to grow to actually care for her, even fall in love. Plot is going to happen and she's going to save his life (because of that binding). He'll free her and, of course, she'll leave.
Now for my questions:

1) How do I manage this situation without the (inevitable) sexual situations being rape?
2) The story ends up with them back together as equals and partners, through my WIP'S version of a wedding ("Rite of Mutual Binding" using blood magic that makes them mutually bound to each other but with no dominant or submissive partner). How do you think I can get them back together?
3) How do I make her a real person instead of a convenient object?

For the record, I have a few ideas regarding these elements (other than that first one). I'm just looking for other options and opinions I may not have considered.


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## Ireth (Feb 3, 2017)

My big question is, does sex _have_ to be inevitable? Can't it be a platonic (or at least asexual) relationship?


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## Christopher Michael (Feb 3, 2017)

Ireth said:


> My big question is, does sex _have_ to be inevitable? Can't it be a platonic (or at least asexual) relationship?


Interesting thought. Like I said (or meant to), at the beginning of the situation my protag doesn't even realize this little caveat in inter-Siren relationships. (He's new to the entire world of the fantastic- he's been living as a mundane human for 30-40 years.)
So, even though I'm not doing erotica and don't plan on detailing the scenes, I expect sex to be inevitable in the beginning. As he begins to suspect what's going on, I think it's likely to taper off and (quite possibly) ultimately stop as he fully realizes what is happening.
So although I view Sirens as highly sensual beings who quite enjoy sex (especially as Siren-Siren relations, using the full range of their abilities, are likely to be...errr...fun), I do not think this relationship will be (at least toward the end of her subservience) sexual in nature.


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## Thomas Laszlo (Feb 3, 2017)

Or... since sex seems inevitable to you, technically it wouldn't be rape? She's subservient, meaning she'd say yes if he asked or mentioned it because it's his will therefore her will therefore her choice? Not that I condone sex before ya know... mutual bonding, but uh ya know, choices are out there


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## Christopher Michael (Feb 3, 2017)

Thomas Laszlo said:


> Or... since sex seems inevitable to you, technically it wouldn't be rape? She's subservient, meaning she'd say yes if he asked or mentioned it because it's his will therefore her will therefore her choice?



My concern is the possible appearance of rape, since it could be (not incorrectly) viewed as coerced?


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## Ireth (Feb 3, 2017)

Thomas Laszlo said:


> Or... since sex seems inevitable to you, technically it wouldn't be rape? She's subservient, meaning she'd say yes if he asked or mentioned it because it's his will therefore her will therefore her choice? Not that I condone sex before ya know... mutual bonding, but uh ya know, choices are out there



If she's 100% subservient to him and has no free will of her own to consent or not (or if his will simply overrides hers), then yes, it is absolutely rape.


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## Christopher Michael (Feb 3, 2017)

And therein lies my concern. I mean, I've seen it work where you have a protagonist who commits rape and ultimately redeems himself (Thomas Covenant springs to mind), but it's a delicate minefield I'm playing in here and I want to be extremely careful in it.

I _do_ believe that, since it's actually a part of being a Siren, I can kind of step around it a bit. But I'm also going to have the "former human" protag have to confront what, from a human perspective, was absolutely rape. And that's the minefield I'm struggling with.


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## Thomas Laszlo (Feb 3, 2017)

Ireth said:


> If she's 100% subservient to him and has no free will of her own to consent or not (or if his will simply overrides hers), then yes, it is absolutely rape.



Ok yes true. I guess it depends on his explanation of the subservient form of relationship. Let's say that they are subservient but if simply comes down to culture than nobody would call it rape except humans because maybe their siren culture dictates that it isn't? Or that sex is less of a soul bound moment within the siren community? 

Basically you have to dehumanize the event, but still make him feel like a human does and have the thoughts and reactions of a human. But if you dehumanize the EVENT as a whole and make it less... morally detrimental, than you could pull it off. Plus, I hear that fifty shades of grey would be illegal if someone with less money did it... so you could probably get away with just not saying anything and I doubt many people would bring it up. (I say this, I am probably not the best source on what public response will be XD) 


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## Ireth (Feb 3, 2017)

Just my opinion here, but I think 50 Shades is disgusting no matter who's involved. From what I've gleaned via the internet, Christian abuses Anastasia in every conceivable way -- physically, emotionally, and yes, sexually. He's a rapist, plain and simple. That's illegal no matter how rich a person is.

/end rant


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## Thomas Laszlo (Feb 3, 2017)

Ireth said:


> Just my opinion here, but I think 50 Shades is disgusting no matter who's involved. From what I've gleaned via the internet, Christian abuses Anastasia in every conceivable way -- physically, emotionally, and yes, sexually. He's a rapist, plain and simple. That's illegal no matter how rich a person is.
> 
> /end rant



I, for two, completely agree! Lol but like it would've been called out if they were less rich. 


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## skip.knox (Feb 3, 2017)

I like the no sex scenario. Let him desire sexual union, but the whole submission thing troubles his conscience. You can have there be approach, break away, approach, break away, which can delight your readers, so long as there is real progression and genuine emotions. At the end--shall I say climax?--he can set her free, then *she* initiates actual sex. And then leaves, for good Plot reasons. One magical night, earned by both.

One thing, though. Wouldn't the female siren be perfectly aware of the real situation? And wouldn't she *tell* him? I can see it working both ways. She keeps it secret because she loves him. Or, she tells him because she loves him. 

But no sex without consent. That crosses the line for me, too.


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## Christopher Michael (Feb 3, 2017)

skip.knox said:


> I like the no sex scenario. Let him desire sexual union, but the whole submission thing troubles his conscience. You can have there be approach, break away, approach, break away, which can delight your readers, so long as there is real progression and genuine emotions. At the end--shall I say climax?--he can set her free, then *she* initiates actual sex. And then leaves, for good Plot reasons. One magical night, earned by both.



Okay. I'm going to have to go into a little more detail. I would say I don't want to spoil anything but...to be honest, this isn't on paper yet and although I think I've got the beats down, 95% of what I'm tossing around in my skull right now is probably not going to wind up there. lol
So we have the Heroe's Journey, right? The "release" incident is going to happen, according to that journey, around step 8. It's approximately midway through act 2, and is the largest fail on the try/fail cycle. Due to his own failure, the mentor character is going to die, and the protag will nearly do so. Due to the binding, the female is going to save his life. This whole situation is going to force him to realize how he actually feels about her, and the truth of the source of their connection, a truth he's been aware of but dodging for some time- the fact that she _can't_ do anything but help him and be with him. He will have her help him release her- she knows how to do it, and will be able to help him do it.



skip.knox said:


> One thing, though. Wouldn't the female siren be perfectly aware of the real situation? And wouldn't she *tell* him? I can see it working both ways. She keeps it secret because she loves him. Or, she tells him because she loves him.


There is no love at this point. He hasn't earned it. She may like him, even respect him. But it won't be until his sacrifice of letting her go, and his embracing of himself (he was a very apathetic human, and this continues after his introduction to the new reality for quite a while- and is partly what leads to his epic failure), that he earns the right for her to love him. And even then it won't be until much later- if this is half through act 2 then I'm guessing near the end of act 3, around the major climax- that she grants it to him.
And although she _does_, as do all Sirens born and raised in this world, know the realities of what's going on, I'm not certain if she could tell him. Plus, having her tell him means he doesn't get to discover it, and this is a problem for me as a story teller. I need him to discover this world, including the less humanly acceptable aspects of it. (Again, this situation is a trait of the very nature of Sirens, and may not be something she would even think of him needing to be told, because his origins are not commonly known outside of a very small circle.)



skip.knox said:


> But no sex without consent. That crosses the line for me, too.


Agreed. Which is the reason I'm going to have it stop once he realizes what's going on.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Feb 4, 2017)

Sex being inevitable in that kind or relationship? Idk. 

Since MC has been raised as a human, the whole thing might trouble him. He might not WANT to control/take advantage of her. In fact, it might be interesting to see him wrestle with his identity and his relationship with her and what it entails. He might desire her, but fight it. He might almost give in, but then realize what he is doing and be disgusted with himself. He might explore his identity as a Siren and fear part of it. 

If there was sex without consent (rape), id put the book down. It crosses the line for me.


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## ascanius (Feb 4, 2017)

I'm not really understanding the big deal, nor do I get how this is rape.  It doesn't seem like she looses the ability to choose, have free will, unless she become part of his hive mind kinda thing.  It seems to me that unless he explicitly demands sex, she has a choice.

Let me explain.  If it is established that she cannot read his mind and hence doesn't know his will without being told and she still has autonomy then she can always say no.  What he does after determines if it is rape.

An example.  They are together and thing happen as happens between two people.  During the whole event he never explicitly says or implies his will.  That means she has a choice to say no, also how she responds will tell a lot to the reader, if she is engaged in the process to in the same manner as he it changes things.

It's important to establish that she still has free will, have her tell him to f'off a few times even if she does what he wants.  Establish that her mind and voice are still her own.  It's the only way I can see this working.  You can still be vague and leave the reader wondering but be careful.

The Witcher comes to mind with yennifer and geralt and the djinn.  Yennifer has doubts about their relationship being about love or magic compelling then.

Edit:  I'm not understanding if you want this to be vague and something he is later redeemed for by releasing her.  Or you want a moment of intimacy that is mutual.  If you want the act to be vague or even not vague then your going to need something much greater than simply releasing her.  Unless this is a cultural thing among sirens that is understood, so for her its no big deal.  If your going the cultural route your going to need to do a lot of work establishing the siren culture and characters.


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## Christopher Michael (Feb 4, 2017)

ascanius said:


> Let me explain.  If it is established that she cannot read his mind and hence doesn't know his will without being told and she still has autonomy then she can always say no.  What he does after determines if it is rape.


It's a good idea. I'll play around with it some and see how it handles.



ascanius said:


> Unless this is a cultural thing among sirens that is understood, so for her its no big deal.  If your going the cultural route your going to need to do a lot of work establishing the siren culture and characters.


It's deeper than merely cultural. It's a genetic thing that they can't even control. If 2 Sirens engage in "seduction combat" (again, that is not what I'm ultimately calling it, but it's the best I've got right now), there will be a winner and there will be a loser. By virtue of what they are, not how they were raised, the loser is bound to and submissive to the winner. I'm thinking it isn't a super common occurrence, mainly because nobody wants to risk being the loser in this situation, but it happens often enough that it's been seen by most, and that it's possibly "genetic knowledge" (which is a concept I'm toying around with right now for other aspects of the story).
When she is sent to seduce and kill him, almost nobody knows he's a siren. That means she thinks he's a human or, at most, a powerful magic user on the wrong side of the conflict from her. In other words, an easy victory with maybe a bit of fun thrown in. He surprises both of them by winning, although I think barely. (I'm not sure how much of this scene I want to write, since this combat can only be fully engaged in one way, and I really would prefer to avoid those scenes as much as possible.) He may know _something_ happened, because she's not going to leave, but I don't think he'll know what at this point.
I want it to take a while for him to figure it out, and only at that crisis point do I expect him to do something about it.


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## TheCrystallineEntity (Feb 4, 2017)

Even just reading about all of this is making me feel icky. I highly suggest going the asexual route [but, then again, all of my own characters are asexual, so...]

50 Shades of Grey, along with Twilight and The Handmaid's Tale, are the only books I would genuinely want to tear apart and then burn.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Feb 4, 2017)

TheCrystallineEntity said:


> Even just reading about all of this is making me feel icky. I highly suggest going the asexual route [but, then again, all of my own characters are asexual, so...]
> 
> 50 Shades of Grey, along with Twilight and The Handmaid's Tale, are the only books I would genuinely want to tear apart and then burn.



Why the Handmaid's Tale?


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## TheCrystallineEntity (Feb 4, 2017)

^That book traumatized me in high school. I am very sensitive to...well, just about everything.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Feb 4, 2017)

TheCrystallineEntity said:


> ^That book traumatized me in high school. I am very sensitive to...well, just about everything.



I haven't read it, but, saaaame. :/ I don't like that about myself, but anyway. 

I haven't read the handmaid's tale, but I don't approve of book burning anyway


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## Christopher Michael (Feb 4, 2017)

TheCrystallineEntity said:


> I highly suggest going the asexual route



For a variety of reasons, that's not possible.
1) I don't write asexual characters.
2) Exploring this relationship is one of the ways he's going to explore both himself and the larger universe in okay.
3) I've tried not including this relationship. The entire story falls assist without it.
4) The only way to defeat The Big Bad is this relationship.


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## TheCrystallineEntity (Feb 4, 2017)

^^For those three, I would make an exception. Or I would just tear them to shreds, even more satisfying.

^I wasn't suggesting no romance/no relationship.


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## Ireth (Feb 4, 2017)

If I may ask, why don't you write asexual characters?


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## Christopher Michael (Feb 4, 2017)

Ireth said:


> If I may ask, why don't you write asexual characters?



Lack of knowledge of the community, combined with a lack of access to them (I would rather not write them at all as opposed to writing them in a stereotypical and insulting way) , as well as loving the love story.
I do write characters where romance and love are a non issue, but generally secondary characters. My MCs almost inevitably end up in relationships.


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## TheCrystallineEntity (Feb 4, 2017)

All of my characters are asexual yet have much romance.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Feb 4, 2017)

Christopher Michael said:


> Lack of knowledge of the community, combined with a lack of access to them (I would rather not write them at all as opposed to writing them in a stereoisomer and insulting way) , as well as loving the love story.
> I do write characters where romance and love are a non issue, but generally secondary characters. My MCs almost inevitably end up in relationships.



Asexual doesn't mean no relationship. Or even no romance. Not all people who are asexual identify themselves as aromantic. 

But, I do understand. I have a character who I strongly feel is asexual, but since he's the cold/emotionally withdrawn type and I feel like that's a stereotype of asexual people, I'm really, really reluctant to even hint at it in the story...


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## Christopher Michael (Feb 4, 2017)

TheCrystallineEntity said:


> All of my characters are asexual yet have much romance.



That's literally impossible in this case. Neither of them are asexual, and sex is how they end up in this position to begin with.


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## Ireth (Feb 4, 2017)

Christopher Michael said:


> That's literally impossible in this case. Neither of them are asexual, and sex is how they end up in this position to begin with.



Asexual people can and do sometimes have sex (and sometimes they even enjoy it). They just don't feel sexual _attraction_.


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## Christopher Michael (Feb 4, 2017)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> Asexual doesn't mean no relationship. Or even no romance. Not all people who are asexual identify themselves as aromantic.



I understand that. But it has nothing to do with this story. There is no such thing as an asexual siren. Humans? Sure. Other fantastical creatures? Absolutely.


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## TheCrystallineEntity (Feb 4, 2017)

All of my characters reproduce by energy fusion, so I'm not helping much. 

An asexual Siren would actually be quite interesting. Mind if I potentially borrow your idea?


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Feb 4, 2017)

Christopher Michael said:


> I understand that. But it has nothing to do with this story. There is no such thing as an asexual siren. Humans? Sure. Other fantastical creatures? Absolutely.



Well, if asexual sirens don't exist, then...


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## Christopher Michael (Feb 4, 2017)

TheCrystallineEntity said:


> All of my characters reproduce by energy fusion, so I'm not helping much.



Lol
Yeah. My characters reproduce in much the same way as humans.


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## TheCrystallineEntity (Feb 4, 2017)

Where is it stated, anyway, that asexual Sirens don't exist? Certainly not in any of the old myths. By the way, are your Sirens bird-women like they are in the Odyssey, or more mermaid-like?


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Feb 4, 2017)

TheCrystallineEntity said:


> All of my characters reproduce by energy fusion, so I'm not helping much.
> 
> An asexual Siren would actually be quite interesting. Mind if I potentially borrow your idea?



It would be interesting. 

Actually, I believe in mythology, Sirens did not tempt with sex necessarily, but with whatever the person desired most. In the Odyssey they tempted Odysseus with...I can't remember actually, but it wasn't sex. I think he was offered power...

A Siren would probably attempt to seduce me with mozzarella sticks.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Feb 4, 2017)

Christopher Michael said:


> Lol
> Yeah. My characters reproduce in much the same way as humans.



My characters *are* humans, soooo...


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## Christopher Michael (Feb 4, 2017)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> Well, if asexual sirens don't exist, then...



I'm not trying to be rude. It's just that I've considered this concept already. Although some races in my world can be different, Sirens are essentially libidos on steroids. They can control it, although most don't bother (which is where the legends about mermaids luring humans come from), but they are a highly sexual species.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Feb 4, 2017)

Christopher Michael said:


> I'm not trying to be rude. It's just that I've considered this concept already. Although some races in my world can be different, Sirens are essentially libidos on steroids. They can control it, although most don't bother (which is where the legends about mermaids luring humans come from), but they are a highly sexual species.



Don't worry, you didn't come across as rude.  we're just discussing ideas


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## Christopher Michael (Feb 4, 2017)

TheCrystallineEntity said:


> Where is it stated, anyway, that asexual Sirens don't exist? Certainly not in any of the old myths. By the way, are your Sirens bird-women like they are in the Odyssey, or more mermaid-like?



Yes. And yes. And also humanoid. A lot of the inspiration for this story started from the concept of "the truth behind the legends."

For instance: the female here is Aphrodite. (Yes. Not a siren in mythology, but when you take all the legends regarding her into account, she does fit my lore.)


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## TheCrystallineEntity (Feb 4, 2017)

I have space mermaids in my first fantasy book; they travel through space, have long, black, seaweed-like hair and pale skin, have huge eyes, and eat starlight.


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## Gryphos (Feb 4, 2017)

Christopher Michael said:
			
		

> If 2 Sirens engage in "seduction combat" (again, that is not what I'm ultimately calling it, but it's the best I've got right now)



Just gonna say that I, for one, think you should totally call it 'seduction combat'.


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## Ireth (Feb 4, 2017)

Christopher Michael said:


> I'm not trying to be rude. It's just that I've considered this concept already. Although some races in my world can be different, Sirens are essentially libidos on steroids. They can control it, although most don't bother (which is where the legends about mermaids luring humans come from), but they are a highly sexual species.



I'm curious, are your Sirens exclusively straight, or are there gay/bi/pan ones too? I also have a WIP with merfolk as the protagonists, and the MC is a lesbian. She does participate in the "luring men to their death" thing (since it's basically their coming-of-age ceremony), but when she drowns a man at the start of the story, it's out of revenge for him trying to kill her cousin, not out of desire toward him.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Feb 4, 2017)

TheCrystallineEntity said:


> I have space mermaids in my first fantasy book; they travel through space, have long, black, seaweed-like hair and pale skin, have huge eyes, and eat starlight.



That sounds really cool! 

I have an immortal character in my graphic novel who either takes the form of a tall, muscular woman with purple skin, or a winged panther who can travel through space...lol just what it reminded me of...


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## Christopher Michael (Feb 4, 2017)

Ireth said:


> I'm curious, are your Sirens exclusively straight, or are there gay/bi/pan ones too? .



I have at least one who is in a permanent lesbian relationship- they've actually done the mutual binding ceremony. I don't know that it'll precisely be common, but it also won't be a big deal. (The fact that her lover is a dryad rather than a siren well probably be a bigger issue.)


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## TheCrystallineEntity (Feb 4, 2017)

^^When they travel, the little ones hold onto their mum or dad's hair so they don't float away.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Feb 4, 2017)

TheCrystallineEntity said:


> ^^When they travel, the little ones hold onto their mum or dad's hair so they don't float away.



Awwwwww! That's cute  I have an adorable picture in my head lol


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## TheCrystallineEntity (Feb 4, 2017)

I can now imagine the little ones going 'Weeeeee!' as they are pulled along. 

Unfortunately, so far the Undinai are merely mentioned in the appendices section. I might need to do something about that.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Feb 4, 2017)

TheCrystallineEntity said:


> I can now imagine the little ones going 'Weeeeee!' as they are pulled along.
> 
> Unfortunately, so far the Undinai are merely mentioned in the appendices section. I might need to do something about that.



Yeah, they need an appearance in the story


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## TheCrystallineEntity (Feb 6, 2017)

The book is already significantly long as it is. Hmmm....I'm not sure what to do about that--add them into my latest story or something?


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## spectre (Feb 8, 2017)

Christopher Michael said:


> My concern is the possible appearance of rape, since it could be (not incorrectly) viewed as coerced?


I do not see how what you've described is rape at all. I think if you highlight your protagonist in certain ways readers might be more inclined to thoughts like, "...And look how he had sex with a helpless bound siren, that's rape..." But on the whole the idea of some perverted view arising from falling in love as you stated seems over thought. Is there something specific in your scenes which creates a violent vibe? You said you didn't plan on detailing scenes, which if you were to might create a nice romantic caveat in your story without being rape or erotica, so like I said, perhaps a bit over thought?

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## spectre (Feb 8, 2017)

Ireth said:


> If she's 100% subservient to him and has no free will of her own to consent or not (or if his will simply overrides hers), then yes, it is absolutely rape.


I think it is rape, but the author said they fall in love. Does this change things or mean consentual rape?

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## spectre (Feb 8, 2017)

Christopher Michael said:


> Okay. I'm going to have to go into a little more detail. I would say I don't want to spoil anything but...to be honest, this isn't on paper yet and although I think I've got the beats down, 95% of what I'm tossing around in my skull right now is probably not going to wind up there. lol
> So we have the Heroe's Journey, right? The "release" incident is going to happen, according to that journey, around step 8. It's approximately midway through act 2, and is the largest fail on the try/fail cycle. Due to his own failure, the mentor character is going to die, and the protag will nearly do so. Due to the binding, the female is going to save his life. This whole situation is going to force him to realize how he actually feels about her, and the truth of the source of their connection, a truth he's been aware of but dodging for some time- the fact that she _can't_ do anything but help him and be with him. He will have her help him release her- she knows how to do it, and will be able to help him do it.
> 
> 
> ...


Can you tailor the nature of the binding to provide some of this for you? Sort of like a genie is bound to the finder of the lamp?

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## DragonOfTheAerie (Feb 8, 2017)

spectre said:


> I think it is rape, but the author said they fall in love. Does this change things or mean consentual rape?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G550T1 using Tapatalk



Isn't consensual rape something of an oxymoron?


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## Ireth (Feb 8, 2017)

spectre said:


> I think it is rape, but the author said they fall in love. Does this change things or mean consentual rape?



It sounds like Lima Syndrome (basically the reverse of Stockholm Syndrome) to me. Might not be rape, but it's still weird, imo.


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## spectre (Feb 8, 2017)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> Isn't consensual rape something of an oxymoron?


Yeah but I'm thinking like it's illegal to have sex with a 17 year old even if they consent. I didn't have a term.

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## Ireth (Feb 8, 2017)

spectre said:


> Yeah but I'm thinking like it's illegal to have sex with a 17 year old even if they consent. I didn't have a term.



I believe "statutory rape" is what you're looking for.


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## Christopher Michael (Feb 8, 2017)

spectre said:


> I do not see how what you've described is rape at all.


I, personally, do not think it is. But I'm trying to figure out how to ensure my readers don't think my MC is a rapist bastard. (I have nothing against writing that type of character, even as a protagonist- _The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant_ remains one of my favorite anti-hero fantasy series- but that's not who this character is, and not what I want to do here.



spectre said:


> I think if you highlight your protagonist in certain ways readers might be more inclined to thoughts like, "...And look how he had sex with a helpless bound siren, that's rape..." But on the whole the idea of some perverted view arising from falling in love as you stated seems over thought. Is there something specific in your scenes which creates a violent vibe? You said you didn't plan on detailing scenes, which if you were to might create a nice romantic caveat in your story without being rape or erotica, so like I said, perhaps a bit over thought?


The only time I plan on going even slightly explicit (not erotica, but likely on the edge) is during the initial seduction scene. At this point, only Aphrodite knows what is at risk. Rune (the current, and likely temporary, name of my protag) is relatively new to this world, and has no clue about the extra side effects of this situation. He still views himself as a mid-to late-30's human male. He hasn't accepted the changes wrought on him by the alteration in his physiology. Aphrodite is a several centuries old Siren who knows everything about this particular world, and is confident (_at least_ bordering on arrogant) in her powers.




spectre said:


> Can you tailor the nature of the binding to provide some of this for you? Sort of like a genie is bound to the finder of the lamp?


That's actually a remarkably good analogy for what I'm working with here. The binding isn't Rune (the protag) making a slave of her. It is, and I desperately need to find a way to make this clear to the reader (obviously), a natural and unavoidable result of utilizing the Siren magic in "seduction combat" with another Siren. This natural, magical, result can _only_ happen Siren to Siren. And it can be broken by a specific use of Blood Magic. It is a Blood Magic that every Siren knows.

Now for a question you kind of asked earlier, that I skipped over- regarding the "falling in love" thing. It isn't something that's going to just happen. And it isn't a result of the binding.
The Binding links them together. She cannot oppose his will. She cannot attack him, or cause him to be attacked. She cannot let him die. If he gives her a command, explicit or implicit, she is bound to it.
But if there is no command? She's free to do as she desires.  I know that seems a fine line, and a delicate one, but it is the line I've drawn.
Now, for a variety of reasons, Rune will grow to care for her- the "her" he glimpses through the Binding. The peaks of the real her he sees. It's not love. It can't be love at this point. But it's the foundation for something that will be developed further.
When the situation develops and she saves him from dying, it is that caring which will cause him to release her. Knowing full well that he will likely never see her again, and completely against the advice of those with him. (She started out with the Bad Guys,and they were the entire reason she came him.)


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## Christopher Michael (Feb 8, 2017)

Ireth said:


> It sounds like Lima Syndrome (basically the reverse of Stockholm Syndrome) to me. Might not be rape, but it's still weird, imo.



Interesting concept, but it's not Lima Syndrome. He isn't growing to care for his captive. She's _not_ his captive. She's magically bound to him because of the outcome of the battle, but that is different from what you're thinking. And the love isn't going to develop because of or during the binding. Does he begin to care for her? Absolutely. But the parts of her he grows to care about are the parts that are _despite_ the binding, not because of it. The parts of the real her that slip through.


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