# Magic systems involving pain, limb and/or organ removal..?



## Aravelle (Feb 13, 2013)

Do you know of any book series[es?] including your own that employ this kind of magic? If so, what are the rules? How does the system work? Does it have to be your own body parts, or can it be someone else's? Must it be a willing volunteer or no? I read about this kind in How To Write Science Fiction and Fantasy, by Orson Scott Card. I haven't read a book series yet that employs magic like this, but figured there has to be at least a FEW books out there that do.


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## psychotick (Feb 13, 2013)

Hi,

Haven't read anything specifically along those lines, but I did start writing an urban fantasy where one class of witches used something similar. In essence they gained their magic / animus from the body secretions of animals given like to like. So rubbing the sweat off say a horse onto their own skin gave them various horse like gifts. I sort of stopped when it got a bit gross in places. For example one witch needed a bloodhound's sense of smell so she had to take snot from a bloodhound and rub it in her own nose. - As I said - gross!

Cheers, Greg.


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## BenGoram (Feb 13, 2013)

Are you talking about something active or reactive? I've often come across magic that needs emotion and so sometimes a magic user will inflict pain (usually on herself) to spur the magic. But there's also the reactive sort, where it's a price that comes after the magic is done. In Holly Black's Curse Workers the workers experience like-for-like backlash (though the degree is not consistent), so each time a death worker kills someone a part of the worker dies (usually a finger). Physical workers get sick or injured, emotion workers become unstable, etc. For most the backlash seemed almost as bad as the actual curse, except for death workers (obviously), so you've got to figure out a way that the cost of the magic isn't so prohibitive that there's few cases where anyone use it.

I hope that helps.


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## FatCat (Feb 13, 2013)

I did a short story like this for the Iron Pen challenges. I had a blood-witch who would use her own pain/blood as fuel for spellcraft, and ends up removing her own forearm for a more powerful spell. Though I don't go into much of the magic system, you can take a look if you'd like.


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## Aravelle (Feb 13, 2013)

I mean like reactive.


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## Telcontar (Feb 13, 2013)

I am currently developing a roleplaying system that uses physical pain and wounds as the price for magic. Obviously as a trait in a system of rules this is done largely for gameplay (as a self-limiter on how powerful magicians can be) but the reasoning I've dreamt up for it is the natural world does not _like_ when you muck about with its laws, and punishes the magician for so doing. This pain generally takes the form of temporary physical pain, but can occasionally cause real wounds to manifest.


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## Ghost (Feb 13, 2013)

_Fullmetal Alchemist_ comes to mind. A few characters lose limbs, organs, or their entire bodies during failed attempts at human transmutation. I have a niggling there are others I've seen but don't remember, especially when it comes to sacrificing others or using blood.


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## Saigonnus (Feb 13, 2013)

Blood magic is really the only thing that comes to mind... using ones own blood to power spells and abilities. It helps to limit the use of it, since you can only sacrifice so much blood before you literally die. Dragon Age uses that as one form of magic, one with an extremely bad reputation (i.e. summon demons etc.)


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## Anders Ã„mting (Feb 14, 2013)

Ghost said:


> _Fullmetal Alchemist_ comes to mind. A few characters lose limbs, organs, or their entire bodies during failed attempts at human transmutation. I have a niggling there are others I've seen but don't remember, especially when it comes to sacrificing others or using blood.



There's Harry Potter. The spell that regenerated Voldemort required bones of his father, blood of his enemy (Harry) and flesh of his servant. (Peter Pettigrew's hand.)


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## Feo Takahari (Feb 14, 2013)

I've heard that orcs in _The Dark Eye_ use a magic system that, at its highest levels, can grant immense power in return for the sacrifice of body parts. I'm not very familiar with that setting, though, so I can't give details.


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## wordwalker (Feb 14, 2013)

Or Odin, who sacrificed his eye for wisdom. (I always thought, first thing he learned was anyone who sacrifices an eye is crazy. Which proves it works.)


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## Saigonnus (Feb 14, 2013)

I think having a magic system based around losing limbs or body-parts is interesting, but I would think that it probably wouldn't be required for ALL spells or else you'd graduate wizarding school as JUST a torso and head.


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## BenGoram (Feb 17, 2013)

I think an important question to ask is _why_ such a magic system would work that way. Also, if it's a proactive price for magic it makes more sense that a magic user could use someone else's blood/pain/limbs to fuel the spell. If it's reactive it makes more sense that it must (usually) directly affect the user. Just my two cents.


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