# Book Reviews?



## Cloud (May 2, 2012)

Most fantasy writers like to _read fantasy_.

Part of the appeal of a fantasy forum (for me) is a community with similar reading tastes that I can swap recommendations with. 

As such, the "Novels & Stories" board was one of my first stops... and if I'm honest with you, I'm disappointed with it.

I think the board needs subdividing into general book chat and specific book/series reviews/discussions.

Good Fantasy Books for Children?
Do you have a re-read shelf?
Favourite -type- of character?

These are interesting threads to skim and chat in, but I feel they detract from a more serious/considered look at the field we're all passionate about.

Ideally, I'd like to see a sub-board with threads focused on specifics works, possibly with a more structured template (standard required links to wiki/amazon pages, etc - or standard, if you like this I think you'll like...).

Anything not fitting the profile could be nudged back into the general book chat main board.

I know it's easier to suggest things than to implement and maintain them - but I thought it was worth at least flagging it for discussion.


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## Black Dragon (May 6, 2012)

Hey Cloud,

Thanks for the suggestion.

We could consider creating a sub-forum titled "reviews," specifically for serious book reviews.  We could even create a template to be used for each review.

The question is this: is there significant interest in doing this?  Or would the majority of members prefer to leave things as they are?

Feedback is appreciated.


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## Devor (May 6, 2012)

Cloud said:


> Part of the appeal of a fantasy forum (for me) is a community with similar reading tastes that I can swap recommendations with.
> 
> As such, the "Novels & Stories" board was one of my first stops... and if I'm honest with you, I'm disappointed with it.



I'm disappointed with it, too.

But a big appeal to the forums, for me, is being able to contribute to the community.  I know there are people here who have read and enjoyed and would be happy to discuss any number of books in the genre.  Would you be willing to start the conversation with a post about the themes a few particular book has?  Or else write reviews for some of the books you have read?  A number of writing forums have "Book Clubs" that focus on one book each month, and I'm sure there are people who would jump at the opportunity.

If you build it they will come doesn't work for forums and subforums.  Let's get a couple of people with energy and enthusiasm to activate the Novel and Stories forum, the way Phil and Sidekick have in the Challenges, and then build around their needs.

You could do that.


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## Philip Overby (May 7, 2012)

I've personally found some pretty good recommendations on the Novels and Stories section.  There is actually a thread that lists a lot of people's personal bests which I thought could help those looking for new stuff to read.

I would like a Book Review section myself, but we'd need someone to spearhead something like that to get interest going.  Like Devor and Black Dragon said, if there is need or want for it, then someone could take the iniative to go forward with it.  

I take book reviews with a grain of salt though.  I have to really trust the reviewer to buy into something.  Either that or it's an author recommended by an author I already like.


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## Kelise (May 7, 2012)

If there were to be such a thing, I would strongly recommend that an in-depth formatting style be required. State what character it's written in, how many view points there are, and have a star rating for characters/plot/world building and so on. Otherwise there's no reason as to why we all can't just look up the book on goodreads.

If we made it really in-depth then it could be valuable. People could easily find books they generally enjoy (I find third person a lot easier to read than first person, for example). 

Though, like Phil, I generally only take book reviews from people I know I already trust.


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## Cloud (May 8, 2012)

OK... well I'm just blue-skying here... so please feel free to poke holes...

But I'd love to see a couple of well written reviews being posted every week. Like the article team - but focused down to the work which has inspired us all to write.

Weekly...
Maybe 1 "current" review - for a book or series within the last two years.
Maybe 1 "classic" review - for a book older than two years

I'd put the 'classic' review on a monthly cycle... 2+yrs, 5+yrs, 10+yrs, 20+yrs etc.

Rather than lumping a small group with the responsibility, I'd encourage maybe a core 'reviewer' group of 4 members to take one review a month, with a wider group of 12 - 20 chipping in more sporadic reviews (both to spread the load and to make it a more inclusive activity).

*starconstant* - your point about goodreads - valid! 
Why doesn't the mythic profile contain a standard link to a goodread account, the same way film forums link to imdb or cartoon/manga forums link to deviantart. 

Also - *Devor* - book clubs - structured discussion. Great idea.

I'm a big sci-fi reader as well as fantasy, and I'm currently nearing the end of a mission to read every winner of the Locus sci-fi award. I find award lists a great way of discovering new authors, new styles, broadening my understanding of the genre, etc. Yet nowhere in the forum have I spotted much reference to the Hugo, World Fantasy Award, Locus Fantasy, Mythopoeic, etc. Seems (to me) like these should be a staple discussion/debate in a fantasy community - and if they're not, perhaps more could be done to highlight them. These awards are there to highlight (and more importantly, celebrate!) the best works in the field.

Outreach programs to existing review sites are also a good idea.

Aaaaand that's me out of steam...

My apologise if I seem overly opinionated or critical in any way - I wouldn't be here if I didn't think you guys have done a fine job! I'm just a big believer in the 'never stop moving forward' philosophy. Everyone needs a plan... or a dozen... ;-)


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## Devor (May 8, 2012)

Cloud said:


> Rather than lumping a small group with the responsibility, I'd encourage maybe a core 'reviewer' group of 4 members to take one review a month, with a wider group of 12 - 20 chipping in more sporadic reviews (both to spread the load and to make it a more inclusive activity).



So let's get this going.  Who here would be interested in joining a team to manage the Novels forum, Book clubs and Reviews?

I think this is something the site really needs.  I'd be happy to help get this going if we can get three-to-four people on board.

Let's see who's in and then get people into a chat room to figure out how much the group can accomplish.  The list of ideas can really go well-beyond anything stated here so far, but only if people are on board.


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## Kelise (May 8, 2012)

I could be interested. I write reviews for the website SentiantOnline and would be interested in getting better at it. Like I said earlier though, I'd love to have a detailed 'form', so to speak, to fill in so we have more detail than the general review.


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## Devor (May 8, 2012)

starconstant said:


> Like I said earlier though, I'd love to have a detailed 'form', so to speak, to fill in so we have more detail than the general review.



That can be done.

One thought which crossed my mind was to create reviews for the forums page, edit those reviews as a team, and post them not only on the forum or on the MS Blog, but on that book's Amazon account under a Mythic Scribes name.  If we can build up a reputation as a legitimate reviewer, it would then draw more attention when we review the work of MS members (which of course, would also have to be legitimate reviews).


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## Kelise (May 8, 2012)

That would be utterly awesome, and I'd be in for that. Could also post to GoodReads, smashwords (if available) and so on.


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## Devor (May 8, 2012)

starconstant said:


> That would be utterly awesome, and I'd be in for that. Could also post to GoodReads, smashwords (if available) and so on.



We need more people so we can schedule a meeting and figure it out.  Who else is in?


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## Black Dragon (May 8, 2012)

There are lots of good ideas in this thread.  Once you have things figured out, let me know what you need and we can make this happen.


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## Phin Scardaw (May 9, 2012)

Devor said:


> We need more people so we can schedule a meeting and figure it out.  Who else is in?



I'm totally in.


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## Devor (May 9, 2012)

Phin Scardaw said:


> I'm totally in.



Great!  So far that's you and starconstant.  Cloud, are you in?  We need 1-2 more to get this going.

We'll figure out the specifics when the group's together, but to be clear, loosely we need people to agree to read fantasy books, write and edit reviews about fantasy books, and lead conversations about fantasy books.


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## writeshiek33 (May 9, 2012)

i am in as aspiring writer i read quite a lot of various fantasy type books


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## Cloud (May 9, 2012)

Count me in :wavespin:


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## Devor (May 9, 2012)

Cloud said:


> Count me in :wavespin:



Great!  So that's starconstant, Phin, writeshiek and Cloud.  How about everyone PMs me a list of days and times (and time zones) where you expect to be free for a meeting in the chat channel, and I'll schedule one.  I may also try to catch each of you one by one to brainstorm a bit before then.

I think the best thing we can do is to figure out a process that we can set up and initiate as a team, and then open it up clearly for the forum.  That way we can put in a lot of energy and a bit of work now to get things going, but then be able to scale back our individual commitments once things are more established.  So as a group we'll come up with a review template, write the first few reviews, lead the first few discussions, figure out if there's a schedule or a quality level we're shooting for, and set the energy levels while we lure others into helping us out with it.

Anyone else up for joining in?


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## Phin Scardaw (May 10, 2012)

Devor said:


> Great!  So that's starconstant, Phin, writeshiek and Cloud.  How about everyone PMs me a list of days and times (and time zones) where you expect to be free for a meeting in the chat channel, and I'll schedule one.  I may also try to catch each of you one by one to brainstorm a bit before then.
> 
> I think the best thing we can do is to figure out a process that we can set up and initiate as a team, and then open it up clearly for the forum.  That way we can put in a lot of energy and a bit of work now to get things going, but then be able to scale back our individual commitments once things are more established.  So as a group we'll come up with a review template, write the first few reviews, lead the first few discussions, figure out if there's a schedule or a quality level we're shooting for, and set the energy levels while we lure others into helping us out with it.
> 
> Anyone else up for joining in?



I'm in Montreal - Eastern Time Zone. I'm always up late, and never awake before noon. Probably if we just continue posting in this thread we'll be able to achieve the same as in a live chat, and perhaps more efficiently. 

This is what I propose:

We begin with reviews of 500 words or so. 
We divide the reviews into sections in which the various elements are discussed: 

1) plot & pacing (not a synopsis, but an assessment of its quality)
2) character (description of main characters and memorable ones, and how effectively they were established)
3) world & language (discussion of the fantasy realms - what works and what needed development)
4) themes & tone
5) originality & literary quality

At the end of each section we can give a simple star rating. I like the idea of sections and ratings that are consistent - that way readers will know what to expect, and the format will help us writing the reviews from missing things or going astray. Of course we need to decide on the sections together and how to best judge the topics we are considering.

Also, we should share the reviews intimately amongst ourselves before sharing them publicly. This way we can polish them to perfection and present quality work. 

Should there be one of us elected as a team leader? If not it might be a task to come to a general consensus if ever we disagree. Or simply let majority rule whenever we need to vote on something.

And we should kick around some ideas about how to get people on MythicScribes or from other sites to read our reviews. We'd be a lot of sad reviewers if no one was receptive to our efforts. 

I volunteer to write the first review.


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## Devor (May 10, 2012)

Phin Scardaw said:


> I'm in Montreal - Eastern Time Zone. I'm always up late, and never awake before noon. Probably if we just continue posting in this thread we'll be able to achieve the same as in a live chat, and perhaps more efficiently.



So let's keep posting here, but I think we do need to meet live as a group.

Here's what I was thinking:

We put together two kinds of reviews.  One is short, straightforward, the typical sort of review you might read on Amazon, with about 500 words and a discussion about the quality of the story's elements.  The other kind of review would be longer, more like an essay, talking about the work's contributions to the fantasy genre.  LOTR would get a longer review, Percy Jackson wouldn't.

To do this, we need:

 - Template/Guidelines for writing each kind of review.  I think that a review formula is okay, even for example, to the point of having each paragraph of the review open with a personal reaction and close with a line that reads like poetry.  That kind of thing helps to maintain quality across different reviews.

*starconstant:* Can you put some kind of template together?  Be sure to include Phin's notes above.

 - A list of fantasy books that any good reviewer would be expected to review, which deserve a longer review and which a shorter one, as well as a list of what we've read and what reviews we can write quickly. 

*writeshiek33:*  Can you put together a list of which books deserve to be reviewed, loosely sorted by priority level?  There's similar lists and discussions already on Novels forum.

I was also thinking that a reasonable schedule would include 3 Short Reviews, and 1 Long review, every six weeks.  That way, every three weeks our reviews would appear in the blog, alternating between the long review and excerpts/links for the three short ones.  I think grouping them that way will make them easier to promote.

Next, we need to figure out a process for promoting the reviews.  I think that's easy.  Articles posted on the Mythic Scribes blog already reach tens of thousands of viewers because of Black Dragon's work to promote them.  Reviews, I think, are even more likely to be retweeted, so viewers are definitely there.

I was thinking we could put together a list of the books we've reviewed into one thread, which links to each one specifically.  We can post our reviews of each book on Amazon and Goodreads and elsewhere, and then link back to that thread at the end of the review, bringing readers from Amazon to our reviews on Mythic Scribes.
*
Black Dragon:*  Could you set up accounts at Amazon, Good Reads, Barnes & Noble and Smashwords under a Mythic Scribe-type name?

Between the blog and drawing readers from Amazon, the readers are there, so the potential here is staggering.  Our challenge is going to be finding people to help, creating a process to make sure the reviews happen, and reaching a high quality product.
*
Devor:*  I'm going to focus on the submissions process, putting together a thread trying to make it easy for people to jump in, write reviews, and help with the editing.  I'm also going to be the salesman and try and push people into helping out.

That leaves us with two last things.




			
				Cloud said:
			
		

> Yet nowhere in the forum have I spotted much reference to the Hugo, World Fantasy Award, Locus Fantasy, Mythopoeic, etc. Seems (to me) like these should be a staple discussion/debate in a fantasy community - and if they're not, perhaps more could be done to highlight them. These awards are there to highlight (and more importantly, celebrate!) the best works in the field.



*Cloud:*  Would you be up for picking one of those and making a thread to start the discussion?  In particular, if one of those involves short stories, a discussion about how you think their example can help us learn how to write would be great because anyone could follow a link, read a few short stories, and then jump into it.  But anything that will get people talking in depth about these things would be great.  Doing enough of that kind of thing might make people _want_ to read more works, join the team and write reviews.

Speaking of which, we need energy in the Novels and Stories forum if any of this is going to work, which leads me to:

*Phin Scardaw:*  I love your initiative.  I want to hear starconstant's thoughts about a template before anyone starts writing.  In the meantime, we need to build energy around this project because I don't know that we have enough people yet.  I think a book club would help, but I have no idea how such a structured discussion would look.  Can you fish around other sites, find some examples, and figure out a model for us to go by?



			
				Phin Scardaw said:
			
		

> Should there be one of us elected as a team leader? If not it might be a task to come to a general consensus if ever we disagree. Or simply let majority rule whenever we need to vote on something.



I'm sorry if I've momentarily stepped into that role, that's usually what's required in order to get anything established.  I hope that nobody's offended by it.  Once things are going smoothly in a few weeks, and we've figured out a process for this which people are comfortable with, we will appoint someone to be responsible for the project, and that person will not be me.  I won't have the time, but by then it should be clear exactly what's expected.

Please be sure and post about whether the tasks I've suggested are something you're comfortable with, how it's going, or if we need to figure something else out.  Thanks all.


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## Phin Scardaw (May 10, 2012)

Networking is not my strong suit, but I can research book clubs and the like. I'm not sure how such a thing would contribute much to our enterprise as my understanding of book clubs is open discussions rather than one person's review. Is the aim to find others who would like to contribute reviews, or to garner readers? Or both? A Book Club is an entirely different animal and would add more duties to our already ambitious task. What do the others think about this? I'm open to exploring it, but I don't want unnecessary distractions. 

I think that the Award-winning Novels of Fantasy would warrant the longer reviews - but there are probably already many written by professionals available online. 

I'm going to try to find material on how to write good reviews if I can. That will give us some guidelines. 

Devor, I think that your leadership is getting the project off its feet. I have the same quality but also little time. 

Certainly, I don't want to jump the gun here. I won't compose anything until we've decided on how to proceed - but someone surely has to go first, and I have a good book to review which I've just begun reading.


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## Devor (May 10, 2012)

Phin Scardaw said:


> Is the aim to find others who would like to contribute reviews, or to garner readers? Or both?
> 
> . . .
> 
> I'm going to try to find material on how to write good reviews if I can. That will give us some guidelines.



We have readers.  I want to impress that point on everyone.  Tens of thousands of people, likely well more than that, will read the reviews we're writing.  But we need more people to write them, or we'll never get anywhere, and I think a book club will draw them in - they're a staple at most writing sites for a reason.

If you're more comfortable finding tips on writing good reviews, that's fine, thanks for suggesting it.  What book are you reading?


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## Cloud (May 10, 2012)

> *Cloud:* Would you be up for picking one of those and making a thread to start the discussion? In particular, if one of those involves short stories, a discussion about how you think their example can help us learn how to write would be great because anyone could follow a link, read a few short stories, and then jump into it. But anything that will get people talking in depth about these things would be great. Doing enough of that kind of thing might make people want to read more works, join the team and write reviews.



_Aiye-aiye mon capitan!_


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## Black Dragon (May 10, 2012)

Devor said:


> We have readers.  I want to impress that point on everyone.  Tens of thousands of people, likely well more than that, will read the reviews we're writing.



Devor is absolutely right about this.  We have tens of thousands of readers.  While only a fraction register and post on the site, a staggering number of people spend time each day reading our articles and perusing the forums.

Also, we can promote reviews on our Facebook page and Twitter, which can bring in even more readers.


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## Kelise (May 10, 2012)

Devor said:


> To do this, we need:
> 
> - Template/Guidelines for writing each kind of review.  I think that a review formula is okay, even for example, to the point of having each paragraph of the review open with a personal reaction and close with a line that reads like poetry.  That kind of thing helps to maintain quality across different reviews.
> 
> *starconstant:* Can you put some kind of template together?  Be sure to include Phin's notes above.



Aye aye. Only just woken up here in the annoying timezone that is Australia, but I shall try to have something good in the next few hours. 

As a side note, I'm in a few bookclubs and would love to (help) run one someday. I wonder if that could be the next step for Mythic Scribes? One of the more popular bookclubs is 'Sword and Laser', who have a website and podcasts (now videos) and such. Over on goodreads, they review the book that's the current book the club is reading, which easily gets them heaps of hits on their written and audio review.


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## Devor (May 10, 2012)

Cloud, starconstant - awesome.  Cloud, I'll get back to your PM.

Starconstant, I'm going to want to pick your brain about a book club.  I'd like to see something more than, "Okay, we're doing Game of Thrones!  Post your thoughts!"  But I can't get my head around what that would be.  But let's focus on the template for right now.


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## Kelise (May 10, 2012)

This is what I have so far. While I was toying with the idea of including ISBN, publisher, page count and so on, I think it differs too differently around the world between US/UK/Australia and so on for it to be useful – though if it’s agreed it should be there, then I have no issue with it ^^ I’m only suggesting why I’ve left it out of this draft.

And yes, this is a draft. How is it working so far?



> Title:
> Series it’s in (if applicable):
> Author:
> Other names the author goes by (if applicable):
> ...


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## Devor (May 10, 2012)

If we're posting these on Amazon, I don't think a synopsis should be much more than one very vague introductory sentence.

I'd also like to see the reviewer's personal reaction to the book, or possibly just some element of the book, be built in to the template.  I think that'll help give it a personal quality instead of just an academic one.  In fact, I think maybe twice - once in the beginning right with the synopsis, and again with your reaction to the characters.


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## Kelise (May 10, 2012)

Indeed, this format is mainly for the posts on the Mythic Scribes site. 

For posting on Amazon/Goodreads then we could probably just cut and paste this section of the review:



> Paragraph of the assessment of plot:
> Paragraph of how the characters worked for you:
> Paragraph of the worldbuilding/language/religion and so forth:
> Paragraph on general tone, themes and how issues were dealt with:
> ...



As for a personal element, should we have:



> Two paragraphs on general feeling overall:



As you say, just after the short synopsis, and then:



> Favourite quote:



Just before the star ratings?


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## Devor (May 10, 2012)

I like it.  Two paragraphs may be more than is needed for the initial reactions - we're getting a little long - but it's hard to say without seeing samples.

Also I think it would be stronger if there's conclusion/wrap-up statement - and I think it should be the best written line of the review.  Give them a take away message from us, instead of just the quote (I do like the quote, is it too much to do both?).

Even though the template has these elements, and the first draft should follow the template, I think it's okay if some of that is lost in the editing.  For instance, if our target is 500 words, maybe we should write 800 words and collapse it to the best material.

I'm trying to test a thought on editing here in the Challenges forum.  Basically, skip the commentary, people simply reply to the review with a new updated version, until someone says "Okay, that's done."  Thoughts?


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## Benjamin Clayborne (May 11, 2012)

I feel bad, because I'd enjoy participating in this, I just don't have the time. Maybe I can send positive thoughts out into the ionosphere or something


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## Cloud (May 11, 2012)

I'd include a sentence on: 

"Why I picked up this book and what preconceptions were held"
"Definitely read this book if you like...._5 x similar novels_"


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## Devor (May 11, 2012)

Cloud said:


> "Why I picked up this book and what preconceptions were held"
> "Definitely read this book if you like...._5 x similar novels_"



I like it.  Maybe we should list some sections as "optional" for each review?

Starconstant, can you post an updated version?


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## Devor (May 11, 2012)

I worked a little bit on the process thread.  What do people think of this as a process for submitting reviews?

The goal is to make it easy for people to jump in with writing reviews for their favorite books, but to also push them into helping out with the editing and quality control.

Please let me know your thoughts so we can fix it into something everyone is comfortable with.



*Join the Mythic Scribes Review Team*

*Any member of Mythic Scribes may jump into the editing without submitting a review.*

To submit a book review:
 - Study the Book Review Template and the Guidelines posted throughout this thread.
 - Choose a fantasy book you've read which has yet to be reviewed.  See the list here.
 - Write a book review following the Template.
 - Submit edits and rewrites for *three* separate book reviews.
 - Contribute to the editing of your own review until it is polished and professional.
 - When the Review Team Leader feels your review is ready, the thread will be locked and the review will be posted.

If you make a good faith effort in all of these steps, then no matter how much editing occurs to your submitted book review, when it is published, the byline will read:

_by YourName and the Mythic Scribes Review Team_

If you are currently publishing titles through Amazon, YourName will link to your author's profile there.

_If you fail to make a good faith effort to use the template and follow these guidelines, your review will be locked and will not be considered.  You may try again._

To edit a book review:
 - Copy the Book Review
- Make the appropriate changes, cuts, additions and rewrites
- Underline troubling sentences you are unable to fix.  It's okay to underline troubling sentences you've added yourself.
- Post the updated version.
- If you haven't read the book, you can still contribute to the language and flow.
- *Please do not include any commentary.**

*Why no commentary?  We're all writers and can see the problems that you're trying to fix.  Allowing you to include commentary only gives you an excuse not to fix it yourself.



Post 2:  Template.
Post 3:  What Makes a Good Review Guidelines.


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## Kelise (May 11, 2012)

> Title:
> Series it’s in (if applicable):
> Author:
> Other names the author goes by (if applicable):
> ...



I think the last line is pretty close to '"Definitely read this book if you like....5 x similar novels"' and there's not always five similar novels available ^^


Agree with everything in your post, Devor, that seems perfect.


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## Cloud (May 12, 2012)

> I think the last line is pretty close to '"Definitely read this book if you like....5 x similar novels"' and there's not always five similar novels available ^^



That was more a kind of 'up to 5 similar novels (or series) where possible (but no more than that)'

Devor - good solid process/rules 

On a side note:
_It's really nice to see so much movement on a topic started by a newbie here  says good things about the forum_


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## Devor (May 12, 2012)

So, what's left?

1. I think we're ready for someone to write the first review.

2. I'd still like to see a list of books that any good fantasy reviewer would be expected to review, something of a goals list.

3. I'd like to include Guidelines for writing good reviews, stuff like "Refer often to the author" and tips on making it memorable.  Phin should be putting some things together.

4. We need to figure out a way for people to "claim" a book review before writing it.  Like, "I'll review LOTR by next week.  If I don't have it by then, I'll respond here or lose my claim on it."

5. Should there be a template for writing the longer, contributions-to-the-genre book reviews?  Is that something we still want?  Maybe just put out an ask and see if anyone writes one?

6. I think three reviews in six weeks is a reasonable goal.  But maybe the actual process should be, whenever three are ready they go up together.

7. We need to find ways to pick up the depth of the discussions happening in the Novels & Stories forum to help draw people in.  Book club is great - but what else?

8. We need to agree on the responsibilities of a Review Team Leader and select someone for the role; it's also not unreasonable to select multiple people to share the responsibility.  We need to figure that out.

9. Does anyone know if Amazon, GoodReads and Barnes & Noble have rules about posting a review in multiple locations?  We don't want to run afoul of anything.

10. I'll ask Black Dragon to set up a "Book Review Workshop" (sub)forum that's under the same 5-post rules as the Showcase.  I don't want to do so until I'm ready to put up the rules thread, and that will happen within a few days.  But don't think you need to wait for it to do anything.

Am I missing anything?  What are your thoughts on these?


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## Devor (May 14, 2012)

So we need someone to write the first review so we can iron out the process.

*Phin Scardaw*, are you still volunteering?

I would also love to hear thoughts about the ten items above, and anything else covered so far, even from people who haven't yet pitched in.


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## Phin Scardaw (May 14, 2012)

Devor said:


> So we need someone to write the first review so we can iron out the process.
> 
> *Phin Scardaw*, are you still volunteering?
> 
> I would also love to hear thoughts about the ten items above, and anything else covered so far, even from people who haven't yet pitched in.



YES! Please excuse my momentary absence. I manage a piano bar, so the weekends are always a bit crazy for me. 

I've picked up a copy of _The Last Unicorn_ which I've never read before, and so far I've read one chapter. I'm really excited about this one and I'll have a review written by next Monday or Tuesday following the guideline templates that we've decided on and we can go from there. Cool?

I'll also have the Review Tips in the next day or two.


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## Devor (May 14, 2012)

Phin Scardaw said:


> YES! Please excuse my momentary absence. I manage a piano bar, so the weekends are always a bit crazy for me.



Great!  I look forward to seeing it.

I was thinking a little about the "reactions" section at the start of the template, and how Mythic Scribes could stand out.  I think, _what are your reactions as a would-be author?_ is largely the take that other reviews would be lacking.  Thoughts?  I think give it a try and let's see if it works.


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## Devor (May 14, 2012)

1. *Phin* is reviewing The Last Unicorn.

3. *Phin* is working on the Review Guidelines.

5. I'm just going to put up an ask for the longer Contribution-to-the-Genre reviews, but I still need a list.  I'm going to start a post about it in the forum.

6. Whenever three reviews are ready, they will be posted together.  Barring additional feedback and suggestions, I think that's going to be the process.

7. *Cloud:*  Are you still going to post on the Hugo awards?  *Kelise:* What kind of timeframe were you looking at to launch the Book Club?

8. I think, for now, we'll share the responsibilities of Book Review Team Leader, whatever they are, and figure out how many people get into this.  I'm not sure whether or not the few people posting here in this thread is a clear indication of how many will be interested.  Once things are going, we may find that we need multiple people for the job, and that there are new volunteers.  We'll post a new thread on it when that time comes.

9. It looks like Amazon claims rights to anything posted there, and some people like to post on their own blogs a few days before they post on Amazon for SEO purposes and the like.  In addition, there may also be a problem with hotlinks on Amazon.  We'll get a better idea once we're posting that first review and can decide how many differences there should be between the Mythic Scribes copy and the Amazon one.  I've already talked to Black Dragon about some of the other issues.

10. Book Review Workshop forum, coming soon.


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## Kelise (May 14, 2012)

Book Club all depends on whether we get the go-ahead, as it would probably need its own section to run, I think?

Depending on what we want to post about book award sets, I could post about the Aurealis Awards? 2011 winners were announced last weekend, and I was one of the judges for anthologies/collections. Did we want to focus on reviewing the books that won the awards?


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## Devor (May 14, 2012)

About the Book Club:  I think you can start it in the Novels forum, and then ask for its own forum if/when the time comes.  I can't imagine you need to wait on permission to get it going.

About the awards:  I'll tell you what I told Cloud.  To get a discussion going, I think you should post a link to the awards, and a sentence or two about them, and then give your opinions about what the awards mean for us as writers.


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## Phin Scardaw (May 15, 2012)

Okay, so I'm compiling some info on Good Reviewing. 

I'm totally down with sharing the responsibilities of Review Leadership in the future. 

I plan to have my review done in a week. 

Right now I find myself temporarily with a lot on my plate: taxes, finishing my novel-in-progress, hiring new staff for my piano bar, drafting material for bartending courses I plan on launching in the next month or two, life, etc, etc... So while I may not appear as present in this thread as I should be (which I keep mistyping as "threat" for some reason - Subconscious, what are you trying to tell me???) please please please don't think I'm flaking out, because I am fully committed. I'm just also ridiculously busy, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. 

Anyway, I'm excited about where this is going, and in the days to come I'll have more to contribute.


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## Devor (May 15, 2012)

Phin Scardaw said:


> Anyway, I'm excited about where this is going, and in the days to come I'll have more to contribute.



Flaking out is agreeing to do something, and then disappearing for weeks without a word.  Trying to give yourself a completely reasonable timeframe for doing something, and then checking in every couple of days with a status update, is called . . . err, doing as much as could be expected of you.

I just have to keep this from dropping off of everyone's radar, and make sure everyone's aware that things are moving forward at a reasonable pace.  That's all.  I happen to be home with two kids, and bored out of my mind, so taking a minute to post here is nothing for me.  But if I was writing the review, I'd want about a week, too.

I look forward to seeing the Good Reviewing tips.


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## Phin Scardaw (May 16, 2012)

Okay so I've put together some of the different articles I've found about writing good reviews. I posted them in my Portfolio. Here is the link:

http://mythicscribes.com/forums/portfolios/phin-scardaw/112-book-review-guidelines.html

It's all basic stuff, but it gives some good tips and a general format.


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## writeshiek33 (May 16, 2012)

been hectic week still interested but will get myself together next wek find out right time i can contribute to this


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## Devor (May 16, 2012)

Phin Scardaw said:


> Okay so I've put together some of the different articles I've found about writing good reviews. I posted them in my Portfolio. Here is the link:
> 
> http://mythicscribes.com/forums/portfolios/phin-scardaw/112-book-review-guidelines.html
> 
> It's all basic stuff, but it gives some good tips and a general format.



Great stuff!

I'm going to consolidate the tips and pointers into a single post which doesn't quote the articles, and it'll follow the Template in the Intro thread.

Can you do me a favor?  Can you update your portfolio entry with links to a source for each of those articles?  I don't really care what the sources are, but some people like to see them, and especially, giving proper credit and citations is important for a lot of the people we're looking to as readers.




writeshiek33 said:


> been hectic week still interested but will get myself together next wek find out right time i can contribute to this



Things are moving fast, so within a week to ten days we should be set up for people to jump in writing book reviews.  The Book Club starts soon afterwards.  In the meantime there's not much left that I can think of - I'm on the intro thread, Phin's on the first review, Kelise is on the Book Club.

We're all open to feedback and ideas, but in terms of help, all I can think of right now in the set-up stage that would be useful is to find other ways to help develop the community in the Novels forum, since the activity levels between all of these reading-focused forums is almost certainly going to be linked.


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## Cloud (May 16, 2012)

How are we deciding _which_ books to review? Classics? Contemporaries?

Is it an advantage to have read the book before and re-read it for the review, or should a review ideally be a first-time reader?

Is anybody 'baggsying' books? Would this be the right place to do so or should there be a separate thread for that?

There's a book on my reading list that I'd love to baggsy for my first review... The Graveyard Book by Neil Gaiman.

Perhaps we could run a kind of optioning system? If you'd like to reserve a book to review, you could option it for three months? If no review is forthcoming in that time, it's open for another member to review if they so wish? Probably not entirely necessary - but just a thought.

I'm halfway through Green Mars at the moment, then I've got Quicksilver on the way from Amazon - but I've got The Graveyard Book slated in for third down the line.


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## Devor (May 16, 2012)

Great thoughts, Cloud.

I would love to see a goals list of books we'd like to get reviews for, but at least for right now I think the only reasonable thing we can do is to let people review the books they want to review and to give their own timeframe for reviewing it.  I was intending to start a thread for claiming books once the forum is up, and I was hoping a mod would delete each "claim" once the review is posted or the claim expires.  In the meantime, no worries, you've got the claim to review The Graveyard Book.

But the thread would read, "Claim your books here!" and you'd respond, "I'll write this book and have a review by June 10."  Once the review is posted, or June 10 arrives, you or a Mod would come through and delete that post.  That way it's easy to see who's claiming which reviews.

It might make a difference whether you're reading a book for the first time, or if you read it some time in the past, but it's not a difference we can pinpoint and make demands one way or the other of our book reviewers.  I think we just have to hope that as a community we can edit out any weaknesses which come from favoring your most recent book, or forgetting details because you're skimming through a book you read a few months ago.

I just sent Black Dragon a PM asking him to open the "Book Review Workshop" subforum this weekend, and I'll post the process thread and the claims thread soon thereafter (or probably I'll ask Black Dragon to post them).  At that point, we're open for business - but we'll still update them based on how Phin's first review looks to us.  But the subforum will be open for him to post it and anyone, even those on the sidelines, can then help with the editing and start writing/claiming book reviews.

I think we can only ask people to keep to a _Good Faith_ standard of trying to write a good review, set up processes that are easy to jump into and promote participation, and hope that the community we have is strong enough to yield a good quality and a good output of book reviews.  Soon the only thing left will be figuring out a leadership structure for an active reviewing community.  Hopefully that's the point we're coming to.  But it's the old cliche - you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.  We have plenty of fantasy readers and author fanboys, and we can make it easy for them to help out, but who knows if they will?  I think they will at least a little, and that all of this will have been worth doing, and the community here will grow because of it.  But we'll have to see.


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## Cloud (May 17, 2012)

_OooOoooOoohhh..._ perhaps a nice aspirational goal one day down the line to collate X-amount of reviews into an e-book?

Something along the lines of the "1001 books/albums/films to read/hear/see before you die" series.

But not so many. And written by us, as a community. Without a title reference to death.


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## Kelise (May 17, 2012)

Devor said:


> Kelise is on the Book Club.



Well, unless there's a bit more interest in it, it may not go for over a month ^^ Currently there's only three nominations, and only I have 'liked' one of them.

Though I don't mind running it for a while (even if I end up only talking to myself) as interest could wax and wane in it, I suppose. I don't mind doing the work for it with little to no participation, I just don't want to be a bother, I guess.


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## Devor (May 17, 2012)

Kelise said:


> Well, unless there's a bit more interest in it, it may not go for over a month ^^ Currently there's only three nominations, and only I have 'liked' one of them.



People will join.  Maybe you should start with Game of Thrones for the first open discussion?





Cloud said:


> _OooOoooOoohhh..._ perhaps a nice aspirational goal one day down the line to collate X-amount of reviews into an e-book?



Underpromise.  Overdeliver.  Not the other way around.  We don't want people constantly asking, "Where's that anthology we were promised?" or thinking, "There's some really good reviews here, but the project is a failure because there's not enough for that anthology they want."

Let's see the reviews, see what we get, and _then_ think of ambitions that are closer to being in-line with what we're seeing.

And you never know.  There are better possibilities than publishing an anthology.  But we don't want to get ahead of ourselves.


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## Kelise (May 17, 2012)

Devor said:


> People will join.  Maybe you should start with Game of Thrones for the first open discussion?



Go and nominate it then  I know I'll vote it up, I've been meaning to read it for a while now.


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## writeshiek33 (May 18, 2012)

just one thing for information purposes i am dyslexic can't edit my own writing to save my life


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## Devor (May 23, 2012)

And we're up and running!  Sort of.  I've a few more posts to make, but the process thread and the template are posted.

How's it look? Now is the time to nitpick.


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## Phin Scardaw (May 24, 2012)

Quick Update: I finished the Book yesterday, and I'm about halfway through the Book Review. Hoping to have a draft to share tomorrow or the next day.


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## Devor (May 24, 2012)

Phin Scardaw said:


> Quick Update: I finished the Book yesterday, and I'm about halfway through the Book Review. Hoping to have a draft to share tomorrow or the next day.



Happy to hear it.  Be sure to take a look at the updated template and process and stuff in the Review Team thread.  The big goal right now is to see how well that stuff works.


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## writeshiek33 (May 28, 2012)

sorry for no contact had laptop issues now repaired so whats the update?


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## Phin Scardaw (May 28, 2012)

Okay I just finished the review and it is Kick-Ass, if I may say so myself. 

so... WHAT NOW??? 

i have totally been absent from this thread and from MS in general for the past two weeks or so while my life has become increasingly busier and the book and its review hung over me. but now i'm back. 

do i post it here? in my portfolio? what's the next step? i need a refresher and an update.


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## Devor (May 29, 2012)

Awesome Phin!

Start a new thread in the Book Review subforum for it, and we'll all take a look.


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## Phin Scardaw (May 30, 2012)

Done!

I have to say it ended up quite a bit longer than I expected, and I suspect that I might have done more of a book report than a book review. I suppose that's the biggest fault I find with it, and perhaps a few suggestions on how to succinctly condense it might be helpful.

http://mythicscribes.com/forums/book-review-workshop/3619-last-unicorn.html#post45204


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## Kailarthas (Jun 2, 2012)

Not sure if I can jump in here, but I'd love to help out reviewing books and whatnot...I know I'm new to your wonderful community, but I'd like to contribute, and this is right up my alley.


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