# Wannabe authors.—Do you hate them, too?



## Writer’s_Magic (Apr 13, 2018)

Personally, I hate this kind of person. You know. Those authors who just write to become famous. That’s not the problem itself. The big problem is they don’t care about their story and their style. They write á la a kid who wanna be cool. If you know what I mean. Do you know (and hate) this kind of authors, too?


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## Orc Knight (Apr 13, 2018)

Hate? Not necessarily. Maybe annoyed. If I was at all sure the sort of author you're talking about. Not worth the effort for me to get worked up over it.


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## pmmg (Apr 13, 2018)

Oof...I don't think I would make such an assumption about the work of others. I may not like what they write, but what motivates them... And I don't think its so easy to write to become famous without writing something that people start to like. A lot of people don't make it to famous.

Some authors have seemingly written things that probably should not have become the hits they did, but that is the world we live in. I think there is room for us all.

I don't think I hate anyone, and that's saying a lot cause I live in a world with politicians and news reporters, but... Yeah, I don't really hate anyone for it.

I think maybe this will spin off course.

Do you have any particular works or authors I should direct this too?


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## Ban (Apr 13, 2018)

Do they write? Then they are writers. I don't see any need to make a distinction here between people who write for fame and people who write for the story. I think the former has a greater chance of never finishing their novel, but that is on them and no reason at all for hatred.


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## Chessie2 (Apr 13, 2018)

Writer’s_Magic said:


> Personally, I hate this kind of person. You know. Those authors who just write to become famous. That’s not the problem itself. The big problem is they don’t care about their story and their style. They write á la a kid who wanna be cool. If you know what I mean. Do you know (and hate) this kind of authors, too?


I'm pretty sure that, with the rare exception, most authors go into this knowing that they will not be famous. For the life of me I've never understood why some people believe that writing a book automatically means they'll become famous. Writing books is hard! And since most books don't even make back their costs in profit or get read at all this assumption is ridiculous. 

What I'm saying is, most writers don't write to become famous. They write because they love to tell stories and are creative people. And style is subjective. What you might hate another reader will love, and etc.


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## evolution_rex (Apr 13, 2018)

I don’t think these people exist. The idea of becoming famous for being an author is, well, extremely unlikely. People write because they like it, they believe they’re good at it, or because they believe they can make some money from it (but even then, the chances of making anything worth while is very unlikely as well).

People who just want to be famous have outlets like Youtube, Twitter, and Instagram now. There now exists many celebrities who do nothing but have a high follower count.

We all have our fantasies of being interviewed on television for our new york time’s bestseller, or at least I do, but that doesn’t make it the _intention_. Athe end of the day, we chose writing because we found something in it worth doing.


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## Plasmadora (Apr 13, 2018)

I ignore them, but I do dislike when really bad authors that are a bit like what you describe get far more popular than they deserve while skillful people with heart and soul in their work are forgotten. (I absolutely don't mind that people write whatever and however they want, but  I think reward should only be given to some level of quality, which seldom is created by that type of person.)


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## Chessie2 (Apr 13, 2018)

Plasmadora said:


> I ignore them, but I do dislike when really bad authors that are a bit like what you describe get far more popular than they deserve while skillful people with heart and soul in their work are forgotten. (I absolutely don't mind that people write whatever and however they want, but  I think reward should only be given to some level of quality, which seldom is created by that type of person.)


This perspective makes no sense to me. If a book sells thousands of copies (in the hundred thousands) to become a best seller and push the author to stardom after probably many many years of hard work, then clearly the author's skill is high enough that this is happening. Hard work and perseverance get an author to this level, not lack of skill. Writing a story that good doesn't come easy, and writing the book is perhaps the easiest part of the process. Selling books is super duper hard. Just saying...


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## skip.knox (Apr 13, 2018)

I'm not sure who you are talking about. I do not presume to know the motives of people I've not met.


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## Plasmadora (Apr 13, 2018)

Chessie2 said:


> This perspective makes no sense to me. If a book sells thousands of copies (in the hundred thousands) to become a best seller and push the author to stardom after probably many many years of hard work, then clearly the author's skill is high enough that this is happening. Hard work and perseverance get an author to this level, not lack of skill. Writing a story that good doesn't come easy, and writing the book is perhaps the easiest part of the process. Selling books is super duper hard. Just saying...



An half-good example of what I mean: Fifty shades of grey is more popular than Hong lou meng by Cao Xueqin in the western world. First book is cheap, terrible writing than can't have needed much practice, the second is a masterpiece. What I mean is that too many people have bad taste, it doesn't always have to be difficult or a long road to satisfy them. Don't forget we are talking about certain cases, I never said and don't think it's always or generally like this. I agree with you that it's what you say mostly.


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## Chessie2 (Apr 13, 2018)

Plasmadora said:


> An half-good example of what I mean: Fifty shades of grey is more popular than Hong lou meng by Cao Xueqin in the western world. First book is cheap, terrible writing than can't have needed much practice, the second is a masterpiece. What I mean is that too many people have bad taste, it doesn't always have to be difficult or a long road to satisfy them. Don't forget we are talking about examples, I never said and don't think it's always or generally like this. I agree with you that it's what you say in many cases.


But you're forgetting that 50 Shades filled the need many readers had: an interesting story with lots of conflict, sex and romance. It's not the best writing but prose doesn't matter as much as story does. 50 Shades found its audience and satisfied a plenty. And by the sounds of it EL James worked very, very hard to market her work and write a story to the best of her ability.


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## Plasmadora (Apr 13, 2018)

Chessie2 said:


> But you're forgetting that 50 Shades filled the need many readers had: an interesting story with lots of conflict, sex and romance. It's not the best writing but prose doesn't matter as much as story does. 50 Shades found its audience and satisfied a plenty. And by the sounds of it EL James worked very, very hard to market her work and write a story to the best of her ability.


Because of their bad taste, it filled their needs yes. It doesn't make the book any more worthy for me, it's still bad literature because of far too many reasons.
I probably won't reply more after this, because I think it's taking the discussion too far. (hope that's fine)


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## pmmg (Apr 13, 2018)

skip.knox said:


> I'm not sure who you are talking about. I do not presume to know the motives of people I've not met.



Its hard not to agree with Skip on that...though his motives are clearly underhanded and self serving...

I've been kind of waiting to see what the OP had in mind when they posted this one up. My first thoughts were to the quality of Fifty Shades, and a few other books like Twilight and Eragon and such. And heck, I recall when Paris Hilton got a book out and the reaction of writer friends I had at the time.

So yeah, not all books are of equal quality, but you know what, quality is not always required. I suppose its not fair on some level. I am sure I put more effort into my book than say Paris Hilton did, but you know... so what. I still intend to keep putting in the same effort and make it what I want it to be, and I hope someday people will enjoy. Maybe they wont. But ultimately, I have to write for me first, and it could be that is just enough.


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## skip.knox (Apr 13, 2018)

The OP was not about quality. It was about the motives of certain authors, that they write only to get famous and rich. 

Some writers have become famous and rich by writing very well. Some have become famous and rich by writing stuff I don't like. Very few have become famous and rich by writing badly. It happens, but it's not nearly so common as becoming famous and rich via the other routes.

My motives are overhanded ... occasionally back-handed. I have tried to be self-serving but I keep missing the volley.


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## Devor (Apr 13, 2018)

Chessie2 said:


> I'm pretty sure that, with the rare exception, most authors go into this knowing that they will not be famous. For the life of me I've never understood why some people believe that writing a book automatically means they'll become famous. Writing books is hard!



Along the lines of the OP, I do think that some people go through kind of a fantasy stage where they think it's easy, that they can do it and become famous, before they start and have to come to grips with how difficult it actually is.  I find it annoying enough, and could see myself casually mumbling that I hate it if I had more exposure to that attitude.

Still, there are people who write with money a little closer to the forefront than others. I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with that.


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## Svrtnsse (Apr 14, 2018)

Sorry, couldn't resist.

(okay, I'm not that sorry  )


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## Insolent Lad (Apr 14, 2018)

I started writing (poetry) to impress girls. I still maintain it is as good a motive as any.


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## Tom (Apr 14, 2018)

I think trying to sort writers into "real" and "wannabe" categories is not only a waste of time but damaging to our field. People write for a variety of reasons, and assuming their motives and passing judgement on them screams of the ivory tower snobbery that writers are often accused of. 

Yeah, 50 Shades and Twilight are pretty regrettable, but the people who wrote them...._wrote_ them. They're writers.

Personally, I began writing because I was a bored kid with too much imagination and not enough stimulation. I dreamed of writing a Times bestseller and becoming rich and famous (and who doesn't at some point?). This made me a better writer, actually--I pushed myself to commit to more complex plots, develop my style, create characters with richer motives and personalities, all in hopes that the resulting novel would gain national attention. Obviously that hasn't happened yet...


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## FifthView (Apr 14, 2018)

I'm a wannabe writer and yes, sometimes I do hate myself for that.


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## Svrtnsse (Apr 14, 2018)

FifthView said:


> I'm a wannabe writer and yes, sometimes I do hate myself for that.


This reminds me of an incident a few years back. This was when I brought a bunch of copies of my book of Valentine's Day cards to Burning Man. I'd had them printed out and thought to put them out as gifts or to leave them in places where people could write in them. It was a little art project of my own that I'd planned out (not very well) and created.

As I explained about this to someone they suddenly said: 

_So, you're an artist?_​
My first thought was something along the lines of:

_No, of course not, I'm no artist, I'm just me. I'm nothing special._​
But, then I thought a little bit more about it, and I realised that, by golly, I was an artist. How could I have an art project of my own if I wasn't an artist. I'm not a famous artist, and I'm not a great artist, and I don't go around artsing all the time every day. At that time though, I had created a piece of art that I was sharing with someone. I was an artist.

Similarly. I've published a book (two if you count the Valentine's Day card book) that I wrote myself. It's a decent book, but it's not famous and it's not a best seller, but I'm still an author.

Also, presently, I'm a procrastinator.


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## FifthView (Apr 14, 2018)

Svrtnsse said:


> Also, presently, I'm a procrastinator.



Oh, me too. That definitely relates, heh.


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## Tom (Apr 14, 2018)

Svrtnsse said:


> This reminds me of an incident a few years back. This was when I brought a bunch of copies of my book of Valentine's Day cards to Burning Man. I'd had them printed out and thought to put them out as gifts or to leave them in places where people could write in them. It was a little art project of my own that I'd planned out (not very well) and created.
> 
> As I explained about this to someone they suddenly said:
> 
> ...


I can relate to this SO MUCH. Even though I'm going to school for art, I still find it really hard to call myself an artist. When people ask me if I'm an artist I'll think to myself, "No, I'm still just a student." Or "Well, I haven't been in a *real* gallery show yet." Or even "I don't think my work is good enough for me to be considered an artist."

I've found it difficult to break out of this line of thought and acknowledge that I have created art, so therefore I am an artist. I think we assign a lot more meaning to terms such as "artist" and "writer" than they actually encompass. An artist is someone who makes art, and a writer is someone who writes.


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## Demesnedenoir (Apr 14, 2018)

I am going out on a 50 Shades limb... it’s a limb because I can’t read past 20 words of it. 

But the notion of “story trumps writing” here is a knee-jerk reaction because of what is a technically horrible writing in a huge success. I would call this a simplistic explanation. Why? Because the story is nothing exceptional neither. Not at all.

It achieved pop phenom status, which is always a mysterious event, because it has a combination of story that clicks for the “moment” in pop psyche while combined with engaging, albeit horrific, writing.

Story doesn’t trump writing, but engagement trumps everything, and engagement may come from many avenues


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## skip.knox (Apr 14, 2018)

I write fantasy, so I have to say I'm not a real writer, I'm an unreal writer.

Tom, there's an easy way to tell if you are an artist:  try to stop.  If you can't, then you aren't. Simple as that.

I have played music more or less all my life. When the mp3 boom hit in the late 90s I went even further--I wrote my own music, played it and recorded it (lots of loops and step recording, but still....).  I made seven CDs worth of that over the course of about a decade. It was great fun and I spent hundreds of hours at it.

When I made the decision to be serious about writing, I had to make a choice. I didn't have two hundreds of hours available. So I stopped playing music, even to the point of giving away my guitars, the synth, all the recording stuff. I was able to stop because I'm not a musician. I play music--still do, very occasionally, and worse every time--and I still enjoy playing music. But I'm not a musician because a musician can't stop. 

It has nothing to do with being published or exhibited or performing. For me, playing music is a pleasure. So is drawing. Writing, though, is a fire that never goes out and won't leave me alone. I can't stop. So:  I'm a writer. It ain't no claim to fame, it's a condition.


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## Adela (Apr 16, 2018)

skip.knox said:


> I write fantasy, so I have to say I'm not a real writer, I'm an unreal writer.
> 
> Tom, there's an easy way to tell if you are an artist:  try to stop.  If you can't, then you aren't. Simple as that.
> 
> ...



Don't think you could have described this more perfectly. Come from a family of musicians. Don't play anything. But, of course, I write. It is like a sickness.

One they seem to wish I would shake. Oh well, nothing's gonna change.  Now if only I could get them to stop interrupting me.


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## Steerpike (Apr 17, 2018)

If your goal is simply to make money, almost anything you could do is a more certain way of going about it than writing fiction. So I'm not sure there are a lot of writers who got into the business simply to cash-in (apart from, say, celebrity writers with a large built-in audience that existed before they ever set pen to paper, and they're already famous). 

If there are writers who were unknown when they started and set out solely for the purpose of becoming famous, I'd like to know who they are and the basis for making that assessment.


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