# Disappointed in Raymond Feist



## GeekDavid (Oct 29, 2013)

Since he's decided to bring the era of Pug to an end, I thought it was a good time to catch up on reading some Raymond Feist.

I must say, I am not impressed any more.

Maybe it's just my own increasing understanding of the art and craft of writing, but things are jumping out at me that even I know better than to do.

For example, consider this unwieldy passage:



> "This is less true in my own calling, for most of what I need I make, for wards, stones of power, and other items that over the years have proven useful in following my interest..."



I don't think I'm particularly dense, but it took me three readings to work out what he was saying. If it was me writing that, I'd have turned the phrase as "...for I make most of what I need." I'd probably have ended the sentence there and continued the thought in the second sentence, as well, though that's a secondary consideration.

Then we have a character surprised that a fairly important personage will be arriving soon, when this same character was present just a few (Kindle) pages earlier when it was revealed to another character that this personage would "be here shortly." Admittedly, the character expressing surprise had recently taken a hit to the jaw, but he was speaking coherently just a few paragraphs earlier.

I'm not sure what happened to a formerly great writer, but these are things I'd expect to find in unedited indy dreck, not stuff written by one of the best in the business and presumably edited by a large publishing house.

The only reasons I'm gonna finish these books are:


So I have the full story of what happened to Pug, up to and including his passing.
With an eye to reviewing them.
So the money I spent on buying them isn't a total waste (I already consider it a partial waste, given the slips mentioned).


Edited to add: One more reason to continue reading... Feist's writing skills may have atrophied, but he still has wit, to wit:



> "Actually," said Brandos, "I give a fair amount of thought to breathing, usually when something is trying to keep me from doing it."


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## Feo Takahari (Oct 29, 2013)

My guess: it _is_ unedited. Anne Rice similarly declared that she was too good to need editors, and her writing completely fell apart.


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## GeekDavid (Oct 29, 2013)

Feo Takahari said:


> My guess: it _is_ unedited. Anne Rice similarly declared that she was too good to need editors, and her writing completely fell apart.



That's a possibility as well. There is no editor credited, though not all authors give credit to their editors.


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## Guy (Oct 29, 2013)

I haven't read Feist, but I have read a fair amount of R.A. Salvatore, and I've completely given up on him.


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## Steerpike (Oct 29, 2013)

I think Salvatore is just phoning it in at this point.


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## GeekDavid (Oct 29, 2013)

Guy said:


> I haven't read Feist, but I have read a fair amount of R.A. Salvatore, and I've completely given up on him.



I read Salvatore's Drizzt books and enjoyed them, but when I tried some of his non-D&D stuff I was decidedly unimpressed.


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## GeekDavid (Oct 29, 2013)

Steerpike said:


> I think Salvatore is just phoning it in at this point.



I think Feist is too.


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## Steerpike (Oct 29, 2013)

GeekDavid said:


> I read Salvatore's Drizzt books and enjoyed them, but when I tried some of his non-D&D stuff I was decidedly unimpressed.



They were good for quite a ways into the series, but have you read the most recent ones?


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## GeekDavid (Oct 29, 2013)

Steerpike said:


> They were good for quite a ways into the series, but have you read the most recent ones?



No, haven't dipped into them recently. Things going downhill?


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## ThinkerX (Oct 29, 2013)

Like I said in the other thread:

Feist should have wrapped up this series with 'Serpent War' (good, but not great), or in one or two books immediately thereafter.

The first four books (Magician') were (and are) very, very good, still some of the best out there.

The 'Kelewan' trilogy is good, in a different sort of way.

'Princes of the Blood' is fun and interesting in a sort of '20 years later' way.

'Kings Bucaneer' is outstanding.  Its a logical continuation of unresolved threads from the first set.

The 'Serpent War' set is next, and again, while good, they're not great.   Again, a logical continuation.

Past that...well, its pretty clear he's reaching, floundering about for credible plots and foes.  His imagination falters.  He repeats himself endlessly from book to book: no point to bring up in "Demon War' what was earlier covered in 'Conclave of Shadows' and
'Serpent War' before that.  The series looses focus big-time.  There are a lot of good scenes and characters, but the overall quality drops a great deal.  And the 'side' books, by and large, utter wastes.

One interesting option would have been for the next book after 'Serpent War' to begin *after* the deaths of Pug and Tomas: Sorcerers Isle a devastation, things unclear with an entirely new group of characters trying to figure out what happened...before it happens again.


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## GeekDavid (Oct 29, 2013)

I actually enjoyed the Conclave of Shadows books because he took the series in a different direction... away from direct confrontation, towards more espionage. I am still disappointed he didn't take that idea into other series, except for the occasional mention.


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## Guy (Oct 29, 2013)

GeekDavid said:


> No, haven't dipped into them recently. Things going downhill?


The _Transitions_ trilogy had so many things wrong with it I don't know where to start, but the really glaring one was the fact that all three stories had nothing to do with each other. I haven't read any others since then. I don't know if any other have been written since then.


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## GeekDavid (Oct 29, 2013)

Guy said:


> The _Transitions_ trilogy had so many things wrong with it I don't know where to start, but the really glaring one was the fact that all three stories had nothing to do with each other. I haven't read any others since then. I don't know if any other have been written since then.



Feist did that a little bit with the Conclave of Shadows and the following trilogy (I forget what it's called). The first two books of CoS fit together beautifully... the next two books (the last of CoS and the first of the next) also fit together like a duology, and then the final two books of the next trilogy fit together very well.

I've said for years he should have marketed those as three duologies, it would have made more sense.


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## Feo Takahari (Oct 29, 2013)

On Drizzt: I'll get into this more if we ever get a Salvatore thread, but the short version is that Salvatore doesn't own the copyright on any content he creates in the Forgotten Realms setting. When he said he wouldn't write any more Drizzt novels, Wizards of the Coast hired Mark Anthony to write one instead. Salvatore agreed to come back, Anthony's (completed!) novel was shelved, and the series has never been the same since.

On Feist: I did a little reading, and it sounds like this was his way of completely wrapping up the series. He had his longest-running hero fight the most powerful villain who could reasonably exist in this cosmology, and he ended it in a way that would make sequels almost impossible. The question then becomes what, if anything, he plans to write now.


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## Kn'Trac (Oct 30, 2013)

> On Feist: I did a little reading, and it sounds like this was his way of completely wrapping up the series. He had his longest-running hero fight the most powerful villain who could reasonably exist in this cosmology, and he ended it in a way that would make sequels almost impossible. The question then becomes what, if anything, he plans to write now.




While I haven't read "Magician's End" yet (it is in my to read stack on the night stand though), I believe there are always opportunities to create sequels. Pug had many friends, there are many scholars and heroes on Midkemia who can continue the tales of The Kingdom of the Isles, albeit on a less grand scale. 

Some of his novels barely mentioned Pug, let alone featured him as the MC. Nothing is stopping him from telling another story in that world, aside from lack of inspiration. He could easily take up a hero originating in Great Kesh or any of the neighboring states if he is tired of writing from the Kingdom's perspective.


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## GeekDavid (Oct 30, 2013)

Kn'Trac said:


> While I haven't read "Magician's End" yet (it is in my to read stack on the night stand though), I believe there are always opportunities to create sequels. Pug had many friends, there are many scholars and heroes on Midkemia who can continue the tales of The Kingdom of the Isles, albeit on a less grand scale.
> 
> Some of his novels barely mentioned Pug, let alone featured him as the MC. Nothing is stopping him from telling another story in that world, aside from lack of inspiration. He could easily take up a hero originating in Great Kesh or any of the neighboring states if he is tired of writing from the Kingdom's perspective.



If he keeps writing as poorly as this, I hope he hangs up the pen and just lives off his residuals for the rest of his life.


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## ThinkerX (Oct 30, 2013)

> If he keeps writing as poorly as this, I hope he hangs up the pen and just lives off his residuals for the rest of his life.



Unfortunately (again, the earlier books were very good), I have to agree with this.

Conclave of Shadows might have worked better...if Pug, Tomas, and the rest had died beforehand.  As it was, they were always there in the background, ready to swoop in...at least that was the impression I had.  Hawk and the rest attempting to confront the likes of Sidi *without* high powered backup...now, that could have made for a more interesting tale.


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## GeekDavid (Oct 30, 2013)

ThinkerX said:


> Unfortunately (again, the earlier books were very good), I have to agree with this.
> 
> Conclave of Shadows might have worked better...if Pug, Tomas, and the rest had died beforehand.  As it was, they were always there in the background, ready to swoop in...at least that was the impression I had.  Hawk and the rest attempting to confront the likes of Sidi *without* high powered backup...now, that could have made for a more interesting tale.



That's true too.


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## Mythopoet (Oct 31, 2013)

> "This is less true in my own calling, for most of what I need I make, for wards, stones of power, and other items that over the years have proven useful in following my interest..."



I have not, as yet, read any Feist so I have no opinion on his stories. But I had no trouble at all understanding this quoted passage.


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