# Does drinking improve your writing?



## Steerpike (Dec 22, 2011)

How about other drugs? Christopher Hitchens, who passed away recently, felt that for him, drinking helped.

Christoper Hitchens claimed drinking helped his writing. Is that true? - Slate Magazine


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## Reaver (Dec 22, 2011)

It hasn't helped mine...have you read "The Blameless Servant"? Perhaps I need to drink something besides scotch. Or in addition to...


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## Steerpike (Dec 22, 2011)

Have a bit of Ardbeg. If that doesn't do it for you, move over to the irish stuff. Connemara is my recommendation   I don't think I've ever written after drinking any appreciable amount. I suppose I could try it.


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## Benjamin Clayborne (Dec 22, 2011)

It hasn't helped mine. A few times I've had some drinks while writing and what ends up happening is *I stop writing and start screwing around on the Internet.*


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## Devor (Dec 22, 2011)

I think a few beers can help with creativity and looseness, but they can ruin focus.

I found that a single beer or a half-glass of wine back in college would help me give presentations in class, as the adrenaline of being in front of people would more than compensate.  But it's never helped me write.


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## Masronyx (Dec 22, 2011)

Alcohol:  no.  it makes me sleepy.
Marijuana: no definitely not.  Yes, it DOES give you some great ideas, but not the motivation to write them down or put them to use.  I will admit to that.  That was one of the reasons why I quit smoking pot.  

I am glad to say that I've been clean for almost 2 and a half years. 

Both drugs may give you ideas that are completely awesome when you are drunk/stoned, but make absolutely no sense when you are sober. Been there, done that with the pot....

I only drink on Saturday nights during a reenactment.  That's my social drinking.  I'm too busy listening to old men sitting around the fire talking about the old days to write anything...


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## Sparkie (Dec 23, 2011)

Devor said:


> I think a few beers can help with creativity and looseness, but they can ruin focus.



Well stated.


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## Telcontar (Dec 23, 2011)

It has helped in the past, though not with creativity or actual writing quality. All it does for me is help me to judge myself less as I'm going, which helps me get into the flow better. Normally when writing my brain is doing two primary things - the writing, and the critiquing. Every word I type gets second-guessed as it hits the page. I stop often to edit even as I'm just trying to get a first draft out.

When buzzed, though, the brain can't do those two things at once. Gotta concentrate on one. Loosen the filters and let the words flow!


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## The Blue Lotus (Dec 23, 2011)

Telcontar said:


> the brain can't do those two things at once. Gotta concentrate on one. Loosen the filters and let the words flow!


Really I seem to have the exact other issue, my mind is running a million miles a min. Not that it does not do that anyway, and while a tad more sluggish than normal I am still doing three or four things at once. It's kind of annoying really... :|
I write something, while thinking about edits I should or could make in pervious or upcomming sections, Thinking about new matterial that can be added either earlier or later in the work. All while watching TV and Im'ing with various people, sometimes while on the phone with family members. My mind is a dark and freaky place indeed.


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## Devor (Dec 23, 2011)

The Blue Lotus said:


> My mind is a dark and freaky place indeed.



Maybe by most standards, but around here I consider you downright cheery.


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## The Blue Lotus (Dec 23, 2011)

ROFL, dude I feel so bad for my poor hubby... He can't keep up. Conversations in our house sound like a who's on first skit.


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## Sheilawisz (Dec 23, 2011)

Hello everyone =) Actually I am a wine freak, like a wine vampire really and yes... drinking, and especially drinking wine (even though I like a few beers sometimes) helps to boost my creativity and my writing!!


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## OblivionJones (Dec 27, 2011)

In my own experience I find that I am useless for anything creative if I drink or if I've ever been high. Good luck convincing me of that during the period of chemical intoxication, though. I've often thought I knew precisely the best way to word something and then, reading it the next day, I'm shocked and appalled at how horrible it is. This may well be because I don't drink or get high terribly often. I've seen people who are used to being intoxicated or high most days who are functional at their arts. I've really never met anyone who was better at the mechanics of the thing when high or drunk, though. Inspiration may come of those states but actual skill? I think not.

I  know an awful lot of people who disagree with me, though. Maybe I just suck at drinking.


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## Masronyx (Dec 27, 2011)

@ OblivionJones, I don't think it's "sucking" at drinking is how well you handle the amount of alcohol you consume.  It doesn't take much for me and I'm ready to lie down for the night.  
Drinking is more fun when you're with friends (even better if they are experienced)


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## Xanados (Dec 28, 2011)

I don't drink. Drinking and taking drugs are for the weak and the timid. I'm an 18 year old and I've never taken drugs.


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## Benjamin Clayborne (Dec 28, 2011)

Xanados said:


> I don't drink. Drinking and taking drugs are for the weak and the timid.



For example, Hunter S. Thompson, who was widely known for being weak and timid.


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## Sparkie (Dec 29, 2011)

Benjamin Clayborne said:


> For example, Hunter S. Thompson, who was widely known for being weak and timid.



And for having his legs broken by motorcycle gang thugs.  And killing himself.  And gonzo journalisim.  Oh just ignore me.


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## Xanados (Dec 29, 2011)

Drugs are for people who do not have a capacity for imagination. They need to seek an external source that will give them some sort of boost, some form of understanding of the world. Brain damaged, lazy people are drug users.
Edit: Oh and, by the way, before I get a warning from the Mods, I'm not _insulting_ people who use drugs or drink. This is just my _subjective_ opinion.


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## Benjamin Clayborne (Dec 29, 2011)

Xanados said:


> Drugs are for people who do not have a capacity for imagination. They need to seek an external source that will give them some sort of boost, some form of understanding of the world. Brain damaged, lazy people are drug users.
> Edit: Oh and, by the way, before I get a warning from the Mods, I'm not _insulting_ people who use drugs or drink. This is just my _subjective_ opinion.



Words fail me. Mods, is there a "hall of fame" section for truly amazing posts?


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## Xanados (Dec 29, 2011)

Benjamin Clayborne said:


> Words fail me. Mods, is there a "hall of fame" section for truly amazing posts?


 Your wit is utterly astounding. Do you wish to challenge my _opinion _, or are you going to waste time by making sarcastic remarks? In any case, I find it remarkable that someone can be directly offended by a subjective opinion that was not aimed at anyone specifically. 

Words fail you? Can you not convey your thoughts properly, or are you having trouble attacking my opinion with a proper differing view? Instead of taking a shot at somone for having a different opinion than you, try arguing with them properly.

I can already predict that you are going to tell me that I'm being too harsh. No, I'm not. Your post is clearly plagued with sarcasm. You think that my opinion is so off the wall that it is laughable and should be displayed for all to see. Pathetic.

I'm not stupid or naive, so get to your point


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## Benjamin Clayborne (Dec 29, 2011)

Xanados said:


> Your wit is utterly astounding. Do you wish to challenge my _opinion _, or are you going to waste time by making sarcastic remarks? In any case, I find it remarkable that someone can be directly offended by a subjective opinion that was not aimed at anyone specifically. I'm not stupid or naive, so get to your point. Words fail you? Why? Can you not convey your thoughts properly?



But... it's _not_ a "subjective opinion," and declaring that it's subjective doesn't make it subjective. The idea that drink and drugs are for the "brain damaged and lazy" is absurd in a world that contained Aldous Huxley, Ernest Hemingway, Jimi Hendrix, and William Shakespeare. The list could go on and on. I suppose you could claim that all those people would have somehow been even _more_ amazingly creative had they abstained from mind-altering substances, but that would be a pretty hard claim to back up.


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## Xanados (Dec 29, 2011)

I find it absurd that one has to take drugs to be amazingly creative. This is what you are implying. No, I think drugs are for the weak, the people who depend on substances for creativity, relaxation, etc. I can't stand teenagers who talk about weed. They are fools who can do nothing with their lives except take drugs and mess around.

Edit: the thing that I can't stand the most is people who use drink and drugs as a means to escape from reality. Face up to your problems you spineless wretches.


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## Steerpike (Dec 29, 2011)

One answer doesn't fit every situation.

I do know plenty of people who turn to drugs, including alcohol, out of weakness. No doubt about it - they just can't handle things without those crutches. I also know creative people who have fried themselves to the point they can no longer create anything of value.

That said, there is no doubt in my mind that were it not for drugs there are many creative end-products that we would not enjoy today - Cooleridge and Philip K. Dick, to add two additional literary types to the names mentioned above.


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## Xanados (Dec 29, 2011)

Steerpike said:


> One answer doesn't fit every situation.
> 
> I do know plenty of people who turn to drugs, including alcohol, out of weakness. No doubt about it - they just can't handle things without those crutches. I also know creative people who have fried themselves to the point they can no longer create anything of value.
> 
> That said, there is no doubt in my mind that were it not for drugs there are many creative end-products that we would not enjoy today - Cooleridge and Philip K. Dick, to add two additional literary types to the names mentioned above.


One needs to be in control of one's own mind. I believe that people should be able to focus, see clearly, and discipline their minds. Drugs are the antithesis of natural thought proccesses. Plus, drug culture is obnoxious and irritating. I feel too old to be in this body of mine.


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## Steerpike (Dec 29, 2011)

Xanados said:


> One needs to be in control of one's own mind. I believe that people should be able to focus, see clearly, and discipline their minds. Drugs are the antithesis of natural thought proccesses.



As a general rule, I agree. But it seems to me there is incontrovertible evidence of great creative achievements while under the influence, so the idea that one can't produce a creative work of value while on drugs appears to me to be demonstrably false.


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## Benjamin Clayborne (Dec 29, 2011)

Xanados said:


> I find it absurd that one has to take drugs to be amazingly creative. This is what you are implying.



No, as a matter of fact, it isn't. There have been plenty of great creative works produced while stone-cold sober; to claim otherwise would be foolish. Nothing I said implies otherwise; I was merely listing a few great artists who were well-known to make use of drugs or alcohol. But, again, the assertion that everyone who uses alcohol or drugs is "weak," "timid," "brain-damaged," or "lazy" is absurd on its face.



> No, I think drugs are for the weak, the people who depend on substances for creativity, relaxation, etc.



As demonstrated, plenty of highly creative folks have used alcohol and drugs, both for relaxation and in some cases to help them with their creative efforts. As I also said, plenty of creative folks create only while sober, or simply don't use those substances at all. But the blanket assertion that someone must be weak or stupid in order to want to use mind-altering substances is absurd, because then you have to explain the very large number of intelligent, productive people who use mind-altering substances.



> I can't stand teenagers who talk about weed. They are fools who can do nothing with their lives except take drugs and mess around.



I've known quite a number of teenagers who used weed occasionally and were otherwise productive members of society. Good grades, good colleges, good jobs, good families. I'm not sure what vast experience you've had that justifies painting all drug users with such a broad brush. Teenagers are annoying? No kidding!


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## Telcontar (Dec 29, 2011)

It seems that you, Xanados, have a bit of a personal vendetta against drinking and drugs in general. That's fine. I'll never be so silly as to claim either one of these is a good thing. It probably would be preferable if neither habit had any place in the human experience - while both alcohol and other drugs can bring pleasure to a single user, they can cause tragedy for innumerable others as a result of that user's actions, and thus the net effect of their absence would probably be positive.

However...

That is never going to happen. People drink. They also use drugs. This will continue.

As to the question of any intoxicant on creativity, it is my belief - as somebody who _has_ used them - that they have no net effect on creativity. As I mentioned above the only thing I find alcohol useful for in writing is to loosen my self-filters and help me get words on the page, which is a byproduct of the well document effect of loosening inhibitions. It could also be that the influence of alcohol has helped me to write more daring and risky things than I might have otherwise - but it didn't help me create them.

In the same vein, using intoxicants doesn't make you brain-damaged, weak, lazy, spineless, or any of the other colorful things you've used to describe users. Some drugs can indeed cause brain-damage if abused heavily, but I know a great many people who have been smoking marijuana for a great many years - and most of them are sharp as a tack. I myself drink a fair amount, and have experimented with some drugs (none of which I continued to use), and I defy you to say that I 'do not have the capacity for imagination.' I will provide you with a long and detailed rebuttal, and neither one of us has the time for that...

I understand that you find some drug users annoying. I remember being annoyed by the heavy-pot-smoking crowd in High School as well. But take care to remember that that is only one small subset of a population that might use these substances. Trying to generalize what you see in one to all the rest causes you to make very silly statements.


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## OrionDarkwood (Dec 29, 2011)

Steerpike said:


> How about other drugs? Christopher Hitchens, who passed away recently, felt that for him, drinking helped.
> 
> Christoper Hitchens claimed drinking helped his writing. Is that true? - Slate Magazine



Don't do drugs, I am actually crazier and more creativity when sober. However I have been know to have a nice glass of Scotch to slow my thoughts down so I can get my ideas and thoughts out before they disappear.


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## The Blue Lotus (Dec 29, 2011)

*Tension Breaker* 

To change the subject... 
I heard that Stephen King does not remember writing The Shinning, and most of his early works because he was six sheets to the wind.


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## Devor (Dec 29, 2011)

Xanados said:


> I can already predict that you are going to tell me that I'm being too harsh. No, I'm not. Your post is clearly plagued with sarcasm. You think that my opinion is so off the wall that it is laughable and should be displayed for all to see. Pathetic.
> 
> I'm not stupid or naive, so get to your point



I'm sorry, but it was laughable.  There's no way around it.

It's not that you think drugs make people lazy and brain dead.  They certainly _can_ do that, among the very many things that they can do.  I can respect that opinion to a point, although you've admittedly crossed that point, somewhere, repeatedly.

No, the reason your post was downright funny is this:



> Drugs are for people who do not have a capacity for imagination. They need to seek an external source that will give them some sort of boost, some form of understanding of the world. Brain damaged, lazy people are drug users.
> Edit: Oh and, by the way, before I get a warning from the Mods, *I'm not insulting people who use drugs or drink.* This is just my subjective opinion.



Err, yes, you ARE insulting drug users. How can you say that saying they're all brain damaged is NOT AN INSULT?  That's ridiculous.  You're being as mean as can be, but they're drug users so that's alright, we'll just wave it aside.

No.  It's not.  Knock it off.


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## Xanados (Dec 29, 2011)

Devor said:


> I'm sorry, but it was laughable.  There's no way around it.
> 
> It's not that you think drugs make people lazy and brain dead.  They certainly _can_ do that, among the very many things that they can do.  I can respect that opinion to a point, although you've admittedly crossed that point, somewhere, repeatedly.
> 
> ...


I'm glad that you found it amusing. You've read my opinion, now do you have any constructive argument against it, or does it just induce side-splitting laughter? What is your opinion on drugs? Thanks for increasing the tension in this thread, Devor.


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## myrddin173 (Dec 29, 2011)

Xanados, as far as I can tell no one in this thread is saying drugs are good.  They are just disagreeing with your opinion that



> Drugs are for people who do not have a capacity for imagination. They need to seek an external source that will give them some sort of boost, some form of understanding of the world. Brain damaged, lazy people are drug users.
> Edit: Oh and, by the way, before I get a warning from the Mods, I'm not insulting people who use drugs or drink. This is just my subjective opinion.



which in fact is an insult to people who use drugs and/or drink.  Members have posted a number of examples of imaginative people who have used drugs.


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## The Blue Lotus (Dec 29, 2011)

Gee wiz guys, 
Are we really going to get into a my thingy is bigger than your thingy contest?

No one is right and no one is wrong. What person A finds proper, person B might detest, while person C could care less, and person D is just sitting back laughing his A$$ off watching the others argue over moot points. 

Can't we agree to disagree? 

Now whos up for a rousing round of Kumbaya?


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## Devor (Dec 29, 2011)

Xanados said:


> I'm glad that you found it amusing. You've read my opinion, now do you have any constructive argument against it, or does it just induce side-splitting laughter? What is your opinion on drugs?



Oh I don't know, I drink but I've never used drugs.  I've known some pretty creative, bright, hard-working people back in college who've used marijuana regularly.  I've never known anyone to use stronger drugs on a regular basis without getting a little messed up by them.

I think why you use them, how often you use them, what kind of person you are, and who you do drugs with all make a pretty big difference in how they affect you.  And of course, some are more damaging than others, and might harm you in many serious ways even if they improve your creative skills.




> Thanks for increasing the tension in this thread, Devor.



My post wasn't really about your opinion, but your insults.  You were already making it extremely tense for everyone else, especially those who might have experiences with the subject.


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## Steerpike (Dec 29, 2011)

The Blue Lotus said:


> Are we really going to get into a my thingy is bigger than your thingy contest?



Luckily, I recently received an email for a product that will make my thingy bigger than all of yours put together. You just wait. What's the shipping time from Taiwan?


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## The Blue Lotus (Dec 29, 2011)

Steerpike said:


> Luckily, I recently received an email for a product that will make my thingy bigger than all of yours put together. You just wait. What's the shipping time from Taiwan?


ROFL.. I want a copy of that Email I married an asian!


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## Steerpike (Dec 29, 2011)

The Blue Lotus said:


> ROFL.. I want a copy of that Email I married an asian!



LMAO. I hope he does not frequent the boards!


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## The Blue Lotus (Dec 29, 2011)

LOL, right... 
I need my nap! I'm being silly now... 
In answer to your q) No he does not, prolly a good thing too, if he did I'd be one dead lil blondie!


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## Xanados (Dec 29, 2011)

Devor said:


> You were already making it extremely tense for everyone else, especially those who might have experiences with the subject.


See, now this is the part of love. Thank you for reminding me about that particular aspect of drug use. I despise the "victimhood" of it all. If you're going to use drugs then "man up" and understand what they might do to you. It's the same with every serious subject from rape, to death, essentially. People always make such a big deal about it. _Shoosh, be quiet. Don't talk about dying...Susie's mother died 10 years ago!_
In this case it's "Shoosh, Xanados, don't talk about drugs. Person X had an awful experience with drugs."


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## The Blue Lotus (Dec 29, 2011)

Xanados said:


> See, now this is the part of love. Thank you for reminding me about that particular aspect of drug use. I despise the "victimhood" of it all. If you're going to use drugs then "man up" and understand what they might do to you. It's the same with every serious subject from rape, to death, essentially. People always make such a big deal about it. _Shoosh, be quiet. Don't talk about dying...Susies mother died 10 years ago!_
> In this case it's "Shoosh, Xanados, don't talk about drugs. Person X had an awful experience with drugs."



As a survivor of sexual abuse I resent your Victimhood statement in relation to rape. 
I love ya man but... Really?


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## Devor (Dec 29, 2011)

Xanados said:


> See, now this is the part of love. Thank you for reminding me about that particular aspect of drug use. I despise the "victimhood" of it all. If you're going to use drugs then "man up" and understand what they might do to you. It's the same with every serious subject from rape, to death, essentially. People always make such a big deal about it. _Shoosh, be quiet. Don't talk about dying...Susies mother died 10 years ago!_
> In this case it's "Shoosh, Xanados, don't talk about drugs. Person X had an awful experience with drugs."



Err, victimhood?  You attack people by calling them lazy, brain-dead, saying that they need an outside source to understand the world, and more - then you deny that you're even saying something offensive - and now I call you out on your jackarsery, and I'm in fact playing some kind of "victim" card?

Just, stop.  Apologize or move on to another thread.


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## Xanados (Dec 29, 2011)

Devor said:


> Err, victimhood?  You attack people by calling them lazy, brain-dead, saying that they need an outside source to understand the world, and more - then you deny that you're even saying something offensive - and now I call you out on your jackarsery, and I'm in fact playing some kind of "victim" card?
> 
> Just, stop.  Apologize or move on to another thread.



I'm prepared to accept that you do not understand my statement. I am going to proceed with this conversation as cold and clinically as possible so that you fully understand: you are wrong. Read my post again. That is _not_what I am saying at all. 

You cannot seem to accept the fact that what I am saying is, well, fact, can you? People have a big problem these days with over-victimization of things. In this case you are saying that "You're making it tense because somone might have had a bad experience." So what? I'm allowed to voice my own opinion. In my post that you qouted, I was merley explaining that to you.


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## Devor (Dec 29, 2011)

Xanados said:


> I'm prepared to accept that you do not understand my statment. I am going to proceed with this conversation as cold and clinically as possible so that you full understand: you are wrong. Read my post again. That is _not_what I am saying at all.
> 
> Can't you accept the fact that what I am saying is, well, fact? People have a big problem these days with over-victimization of things. In this case you are saying that "You're making it tense because somone might have had a bad experience." So what? I'm allowed to voice my own opinion. In that post that you qouted, I was merley explaining that to you.



I really didn't want to reply again.  But you're wrong.  I didn't say that they had a bad experience.  Actually I was quite clearly implying the opposite.  I was suggesting that they had a _positive_ experience, but you were still calling them brain damaged.  That would be why your remarks are just you being mean.


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## Xanados (Dec 29, 2011)

Devor said:


> I really didn't want to reply again.  But you're wrong.  I didn't say that they had a bad experience.  Actually I was quite clearly implying the opposite.  I was suggesting that they had a _positive_ experience, but you were still calling them brain damaged.  That would be why your remarks are just you being mean.



"You were already making it extremely tense for everyone else, especially those who might have experiences with the subject."

You have no idea how much ambiguity plagues that particular sentence, Devor. The fact that in the first clause you use certain words like "tense", makes one think that the phrase "might have experiences" is meant to be used in a negative way, leading me to believe you were talking about people who have had bad experiences.

I hope that you can appreciate that I'm not just spouting off insults at you. Far from it. I'm prepared to dissect what we are both saying in an orderly manner.


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## The Blue Lotus (Dec 29, 2011)

Xanados said:


> I'm prepared to accept that you do not understand my statment. I am going to proceed with this conversation as cold and clinically as possible so that you full understand: you are wrong. Read my post again. That is _not_what I am saying at all.
> 
> Can't you accept the fact that what I am saying is, well, fact? People have a big problem these days with over-victimization of things. In this case you are saying that "You're making it tense because somone might have had a bad experience." So what? I'm allowed to voice my own opinion. In that post that you qouted, I was merley explaining that to you.



We got it you don't like people who use. 
Not an issue, but never ever assume you understand something as debased, as gut wrenching, as horriable as being raped. 
Have you a clue how an event like that can effect a human being?  Have you ever been a 14 year old girl who was raped by someone that was suposed to be trustworthy? Have you ever subjected yourself to Police interviews, and physical examinations by total strangers all trying to prove or disprove what you are telling them happened?
Have you ever had someone cat call, prank call, egg your mothers car all because you spoke up aginst a leader of the community? 
Have you ever had nightmares so bad that you could not sleep unless heavily medicated? and even then the dreams were so intense that it caused you a "full grown" person to wet the bed?
I think not, If you had you would never ever say something so outof hand, so flippiant, so wrong. 

Call me and say that when someone three times your size bends you over and takes what they want. No matter what you say. 
Tell me we play the victim card by asking that you refrain from speaking of matter that you could not possiably fathom in your worst of nightmares. 

Do you know that lingers, not for days, or weeks, or even years but for a lifetime. The memories of the event/s always just under the surface ready to burst forth with out notice, triggered by a sound, smell, or gesture.
Please stop.


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## Xanados (Dec 29, 2011)

The Blue Lotus said:


> We got it you don't like people who use.
> Not an issue, but never ever assume you understand something as debased, as gut wrenching, as horriable as being raped.
> Have you a clue how an event like that can effect a human being?  Have you ever been a 14 year old girl who was raped by someone that was suposed to be trustworthy? Have you ever subjected yourself to Police interviews, and physical examinations by total strangers all trying to prove or disprove what you are telling them happened?
> Have you ever had someone cat call, prank call, egg your mothers car all because you spoke up aginst a leader of the community?
> ...



I stopped quite a while ago. I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about a particular sentence that Devor had been using. That is all.  I suspect that the mods will favour you in this arguement because of your story now, and give me some sort of infraction for doing nothing but state true facts? (My point was that people do play the victim card for attention, even when some cases may not be as bad as yours.) Good night.


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## Devor (Dec 29, 2011)

Xanados said:


> You have no idea how much ambiguity plagues that particular sentence, Devor.



Enough for me to wonder why you think I'm playing some kind of "victim" card.

I also had said you were insulting people.  That can make things pretty tense, too.


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## Xanados (Dec 29, 2011)

Devor said:


> Enough for me to wonder why you think I'm playing some kind of "victim" card.
> 
> I also had said you were insulting people.  That can make things pretty tense, too.


I have JUST explained why I THOUGHT you were. I am NO LONGER arguing with you. I just gave you a technical answer in my post above. ENOUGH.


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## myrddin173 (Dec 29, 2011)

When it gets to the point where people are arguing about whether they are arguing it has gone to far.  The original topic may continue to be discussed, without a resurgence of this... disagreement, in a different thread.

I am now locking this thread.


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