# Social mobility in ancient Rome



## Jabrosky (Jan 21, 2014)

In one of my worlds I have a country called Elysium which is based on the Roman Republic. The character I have in mind begins his backstory as a captive from another, "barbarian" country further north called Albion, but he eventually ascends to a very prominent position in the Elysian government through his military skill. I'm thinking he might even end up one of the consuls (military and political leaders).

Since this is technically a fantasy work, I probably don't need to stick to historical accuracy, but it's important to me that the Elysians keep as much of their Roman vibe as possible. Therefore I ask, would it have been theoretically possible for a captive of "barbarian" origin to rise to a high position such as consul in the Roman Republic?


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## CupofJoe (Jan 21, 2014)

I only know a little about the early imperial Rome, earlier or later things might have been different but in general I would say that while it was not very likely, it was not impossible. 
Most of the hight ranks like consul were held by a relatively few old families or those that could prove kinship to them. The Romans were great believers in consanguinity. 
The Romans also like winners. 
Non-Romans and freed slaves often became immensely wealthy and could wield great power.
So with the right friends/backers/owners and a lot of picking the right person to back [politically] it might be doable. From what I have read and been told there was a lot of re-writing done to the histories of the major families to include adopted sons and daughter that succeeded at the expense of other family that didn't...
The trouble I can see is that for an outside to rise like that he is going to make [actively or passively] a lot of enemies [those that he beat or just those that didn't do as well as him even if their blood and breeding was better]. 
Great for stores and plots but not so good for a quiet life...


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## Jabrosky (Jan 21, 2014)

CupofJoe said:


> The trouble I can see is that for an outside to rise like that he is going to make [actively or passively] a lot of enemies [those that he beat or just those that didn't do as well as him even if their blood and breeding was better].
> Great for stores and plots but not so good for a quiet life...


As a matter of fact the story's primary antagonist is going to be one of those enemies, a rival and older consul who envies the "barbarian" so being so successful.


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## CupofJoe (Jan 21, 2014)

Jabrosky said:


> As a matter of fact the story's primary antagonist is going to be one of those enemies, a rival and older consul who envies the "barbarian" so being so successful.


Works out quite nicely then


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## ascanius (Jan 21, 2014)

The short answer to your question is.  It would be impossible to very very hard for a barbarian to become a consul depending on what you mean by Roman Republic.

First the Roman Republic lasted ~483yrs.  In the early republic government power was restricted to the patrician class and in this case it would be absolutely impossible.  In the later republic government power was opened up to the plebs, meaning a male roman citizen's.  In between these two a lot of interesting stuff happened but I don't want to ruin it for you so I'll let you read about it.

The big problem is that he is a captive barbarian.  I'm guessing he was taken captive during the war, he may not have even participated in the fighting but was just part of the loosing side.     Now if he was the leader of the barbarians then he would be paraded in a triumphal march through Rome before being killed, the idea being to demonstrate the glory of Rome.   Romans would make slaves of those they conquered.  In all likelihood he would be a slave.  Not only that but the skill or education of the slave would determine what they did.  For instance Gauls and other barbarians north of Cisalpine Gaul were viewed as strong but lacked education and other skills, thus they tended to work on farms and other professions of heavy labor.  If disobedient of violent then the would work in the mines which was a sentence to hell.  In contrast Greek slaves were very valued for their skills and education and were often employed as tutors and doctors.  In all likelihood he would probably have a hard life of heavy labor as a slave.  Now even if he somehow became free he still would face the fact that he is a freed slave.  He can vote but he cannot run for office nor be admitted into the senatorial class, I think his children are full citizens though so they have the right to hold office. (I know I'm forgetting something that has to do with citizenship, I think he cannot hold office because he is not a roman citizen, but I'm not sure if it's that or because he is a freed slave.  I took Roman history three years ago so I don't remember everything.)  In all likelihood he would never hold a position of political or military power as a free slave, or even a barbarian who was never a slave.  To hold office he would need to be a citizen of Rome.  Citizenship was a form of romanization and it usually was a reward for the good behavior or a conquered people.  Citizenship was granted only after a very long period of time and tiered.  Over time more rights would be given to a Conquered people, first they might have the right to property, then more rights until they became citizen and had all the rights of a citizen (again I don't remember what all these rights were.  Also I am unsure if an individual was ever granted citizenship nor on what grounds but it is possible it did occure.  Citizenship was usually given to a population)

Check out the Gracchi brothers, war of the orders (or something to that extent), and the Roman social wars.  Those three events should help you out with the reasoning and ideas of what was happening at the time.  Also read up on Roman patrons and how that social dynamic worked, they were a stepping stone to influence in a way.

I think the biggest problems are Citizenship, Slave(if your version has slaves).  But luckily they are also easy to fix, it's your story, When in Rome do as Romans do.


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## Jabrosky (Jan 21, 2014)

My character was going to start out a slave, and my Elysians do view the Albionians and other northerners as dim-witted barbarians, so perhaps a political position would be out of his reach. However, since he has always been a powerful fighter, maybe the Elysians would be willing to use him as a military asset, or perhaps a gladiator in the arena?

Come to think of it, I like the gladiator idea. It would put the story's focus more on the action which I would prefer.


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## Hagan (Jan 22, 2014)

Rising to a prominent position in Rome was open to everyone who was willing to put in the effort, its one of the things about Ancient Rome that allowed it to become a republic despite having its own trade in slaves.  Slaves earned wages, used to pay their masters for the food, shelter, and the states taxes etc, though they never saw a penny until their earned their freedom (depending on the era of the Empire).  Slaves could become civilians, and civilians made up the bulk of the empire.  A civilian could become a citizen once he had performed some task for the empire, most common routes being through military service (Ever watch Starship Troopers?  That society is largely based off the Roman model of society.  Service guarantees service etc).

Rome, for all its faults, did have its own social mobility, but you had to earn every step on the ladder yourself.  Even high born children still had to earn their citizenship, even the sons and daughters of the Emperor and senators.  Brutus for example, was a captured enemy soldier before becoming a member of Roman society, and look how close he got!  Nothing is impossible for a determined mind.


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## skip.knox (Jan 22, 2014)

What Ascanius said.

Better opportunities in the Empire, as an emperor could make anyone whatever he pleased. In the Republic, pretty much out of the question. Even Gaius Marius had to scratch and claw.

But I have to ask: why a consul? Magister Militum would be open, as would a variety of other upper echelon positions. Again, far more likely in an empire than in a republic. Does he really need to have an empire-wide position? Or could he have a more localized power (e.g., a proconsul)?


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## Jabrosky (Jan 22, 2014)

skip.knox said:


> What Ascanius said.
> 
> Better opportunities in the Empire, as an emperor could make anyone whatever he pleased. In the Republic, pretty much out of the question. Even Gaius Marius had to scratch and claw.
> 
> But I have to ask: why a consul? Magister Militum would be open, as would a variety of other upper echelon positions. Again, far more likely in an empire than in a republic. Does he really need to have an empire-wide position? Or could he have a more localized power (e.g., a proconsul)?


The important thing was that he would travel overseas and meet this foreign queen who charms him _a la_ Cleopatra. Could that be done outside the rank of consul?


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## skip.knox (Jan 23, 2014)

You could go with something like a triumvir or duumvir. The Roman (republic) constitution was wonderfully flexible.


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## ascanius (Jan 23, 2014)

Hagan said:


> Rising to a prominent position in Rome was open to everyone who was willing to put in the effort, its one of the things about Ancient Rome that allowed it to become a republic despite having its own trade in slaves.......



umm.....  Hagan you might want to check your sources.  Your post had a lot of historical errors.  Brutus was not a captured enemy soldier for one but you have a lot of inaccuracies throughout your post.  If you want to know specifically PM me and I can show you what I mean.  



skip.knox said:


> Better opportunities in the Empire, as an emperor could make anyone whatever he pleased. In the Republic, pretty much out of the question. Even Gaius Marius had to scratch and claw.
> 
> But I have to ask: why a consul? Magister Militum would be open, as would a variety of other upper echelon positions. Again, far more likely in an empire than in a republic. Does he really need to have an empire-wide position? Or could he have a more localized power (e.g., a proconsul)?



Hey Skip  Do you have any information about the Magister Militum, I've never heard of it and am curious



Jabrosky said:


> The important thing was that he would travel overseas and meet this foreign queen who charms him _a la_ Cleopatra. Could that be done outside the rank of consul?



I thought about two possible courses of action that might work, well two and a half.  I see two things that are needed if the citizenship is the big problem.  He needs fame, renown..etc and he needs some type of authority for a foreign queen to see him.  The following two ideas would work for the ancient Rome setting and also meet the criteria above.

one, He is part of an Auxilia (I would recommend cavalry or archers seeing as the Roman cohorts were heavy infantry and lacked cavalry and Archers) to a Roman legion (The fame part)  At the same time he has a patron, some wealthy roman senator(Authority part).  He can still be taken prisoner by Romes enemies or his patrons enemies (other roman senators).  

Two.  The gladiator and Chariot racer route.  same thing as the above but instead of Auxilia he is a gladiator or Chariot racer (Very, Very lucrative if he survives).  Then the patron thing.

Another idea I had was he could be a Centurion but citizenship is still a problem.  If you have any questions Jabrosky ask away, it's making me really miss school thought, lol.


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## skip.knox (Jan 23, 2014)

>Hey Skip Do you have any information about the Magister Militum, I've never heard of it and am curious

It was a sort of field marshal of the late Empire. Created by Constantine, think. My go-to guys for all things Roman are M. Cary and H.H. Scullard, a college textbook that has been a standard since the 1930s. The position of MM persisted after the so-called Fall. We find Magistri in the Byzantine Empire at least into the 8thc and in the West into the 7thc. Those barbarians did love them some Roman titles.


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## stephenspower (Jan 23, 2014)

If that's why your hero needs to be a consul, to fall in love with a Cleopatra, I think you can solve your problem by not having him be a Caesar (or Marc Antony) but to be one of their stooges like Lancelot to Arthur. Now loving isn't a matter of statecraft. It's a matter of keeping one's head, one's pretty little head, attached to one's body. That said, who's to say that Caesar and Cleopatra didn't have lovers on the side?


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## ALB2012 (Jan 24, 2014)

That is pretty much it, Ascanius. He could be freed and thus he could marry and his children be freeborn IF they were born after his manumission. Freed slaves often held positions of wealth and some power BUT he would still be a freed slave. It has been a while since I studied Roman history but I am pretty sure he wouldn't hold political rank. You could be granted citizenship in the empire for military duty, so if you were a member of a non Italian nation, such as Gaul or Egypt you could serve and be rewarded that way. 'Roman' encompassed more than just those who resided in Rome itself, depending on your period.  I would say Republic unlikely, Empire still not common but more possible to attain a rank of note. Of course if you've served your time in the army then likely you are respected. I think it is a question of HOW this character has achieved what he has achieved. If it is military then there are several ranks open to him. Or IF he was freed and adopted by someone of note and power.
Here are some helpful links. Third Servile War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Roman Republic [ushistory.org]

Magister Militum http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magister_militum


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## ALB2012 (Jan 24, 2014)

They certainly kept mistresses and lovers. 

Does it have to be a queen - any highborn lady would do and then you don't tread on historical grounds too much. Make up some daughter/wife/sister of someone or other. It helps to be careful with historical or pseudo historical fiction. If you start using real people, or real scenarios you need to be accurate.


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## Nagash (Jan 24, 2014)

Jabrosky said:


> In one of my worlds I have a country called Elysium which is based on the Roman Republic. The character I have in mind begins his backstory as a captive from another, "barbarian" country further north called Albion, but he eventually ascends to a very prominent position in the Elysian government through his military skill. I'm thinking he might even end up one of the consuls (military and political leaders).
> 
> Since this is technically a fantasy work, I probably don't need to stick to historical accuracy, but it's important to me that the Elysians keep as much of their Roman vibe as possible. Therefore I ask, would it have been theoretically possible for a captive of "barbarian" origin to rise to a high position such as consul in the Roman Republic?



I wouldn't know about the Roman Republic; however, in an imperial context, the story of Arminius might enlighten you - oh, what a glorious story... Once a hostage for Rome taken away from his tribe (germanic), then a commander turned traitor and chief of the unified tribes, defeating three roman legions in a forceful power-strike...

Such a story. More details on appropriate encyclopedias !


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