# Asian Fantasy



## D. Gray Warrior (Dec 11, 2016)

I want to build a world loosely based on East and Southeast Asia, but I have run into a problem. 

I don't want to copy and past countries like China and Japan into the setting and just give them different names. I actually want to design the cultures and have plenty of room for creative freedom.

However, mixing cultures (say a nation that is a blend of China and Japan and Korea) would be offensive, even though that is not my intention since I may be unintentionally implying that all Asians are more or less the same when they are all quite different cultures.

On the other hand, Avatar does this. The Earth Kingdom is based on China, with the society being a mixture of different eras of Chinese history. The Kyoshi Warriors, however, are clearly Japanese inspired.

The Fire Nation is supposedly Imperial Japan, but the architecture is influenced by Thai architecture (IIRC) and their attack on the Air Nomads is a parallel of the Chinese invasion of Tibet.

How can I avoid avoid being offensive while trying to have freedom in worldbuilding? Idk if my question makes sense.


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## WooHooMan (Dec 11, 2016)

You can't avoid being offensive because you can't really control how people will react.
So just do what works for the story.

My best advice would be to decide on what is it about China you want to take (government structure, aesthetics, etc.) and then make-up the rest.  It's not a cut-and-paste and it gives you plenty of freedom.


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## Penpilot (Dec 11, 2016)

IMHO, just do your best. Study the cultures you want to borrow from. Make your characters 3 dimensional, your culture rich and deep, and let the chips fall where they will. 

Look at Avatar. There's a nice example of how to handle things and at the same time how not to. What I mean by this is the cartoon was set in an Asian based culture and its main characters were all Asian. Then the live action movie came along, Asian culture, white actors. WTF.

IMHO when someone doesn't even put a little effort into research and only takes the surface level things and carelessly sprinkles them into the story, that's when they can walk into offensive territory. Try and come at this from a base of knowing. It doesn't have to be uber extensive, just enough, how ever you want to interpret that.


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## Boiled Water (Dec 12, 2016)

My advice would be to research anthropological analyses of Asian countries.  Look for fundamental and recurring themes in how those cultures developed.  This is more effective than trying to match the Asian aesthetic in your world.  You can find the blueprints of Asian religions, myths, and culture and use your own creative ideas as the building blocks.  This captures the essence of a culture without outright copying it.


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## Peat (Dec 12, 2016)

One mono-culture based off of a mix of Asian cultures might offend some. An entire world of different cultures, built off of various mixes of Asian cultures, sounds far less likely to offend.


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## La Volpe (Dec 12, 2016)

Personally, I wouldn't worry about it. You're clearly fretting about it, and that's a good sign that you're not just blundering into a firepit. So, I'd say, just do what you want with the culture and carry on. Life's too short to worry about offending other people with writing about cultures you think are cool. There's always going to be someone being offended at what you do.


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## Tangle Shine (Dec 12, 2016)

Grab the most fundamental essence of the Oriental cultures. Like expanding the concept of their virtues. For instance, referring to Confucius teachings or Buddhist thoughts to integrate into your work. Try to avoid offensive stereotypes like one cannot be athletics without martial arts, so on and so forth. How those ideals shape their overall behaviors towards the aspects of life? People? Architecture? Religions? In my opinion, a decent setting comes from the simplest concept without too complicated details at first hand since you need a firm foundation to form your world before going on adding any of those later. Shaping a believable world takes time (me taking around 5 years or less to shape only a single continent from an even larger planet at my disposal!), especially one who takes a more pioneering step of implementing Asian cultures into worldbuilding, I do need to salute for you with that...


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## D. Gray Warrior (Dec 12, 2016)

Tangle Shine said:


> Grab the most fundamental essence of the Oriental cultures. Like expanding the concept of their virtues. For instance, referring to Confucius teachings or Buddhist thoughts to integrate into your work. Try to avoid offensive stereotypes like one cannot be athletics without martial arts, so on and so forth. How those ideals shape their overall behaviors towards the aspects of life? People? Architecture? Religions? In my opinion, a decent setting comes from the simplest concept without too complicated details at first hand since you need a firm foundation to form your world before going on adding any of those later. Shaping a believable world takes time (me taking around 5 years or less to shape only a single continent from an even larger planet at my disposal!), especially one who takes a more pioneering step of implementing Asian cultures into worldbuilding, I do need to salute for you with that...



That's another thing, they have martial arts in their world, but that's almost stereotypical IRL.


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## Peat (Dec 12, 2016)

Strip away everything someone might possibly consider a stereotype about SE Asia and there won't be a lot left recognisable of the place to the reader. Treat the stereotypes with respect and you should be fine.


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## Mythopoet (Dec 12, 2016)

First, D. Gray Warrior, awesome name. I'm a HUGE D. Gray-man fan. (I assume that's what it's referencing. Ignore if not.)

On topic, I think the important thing is how well you integrate the individual pieces you are using into a new seamless whole. You don't want the bits that you've taken from various sources sticking out from the background too much. And you want to try to make something greater than the sum of the parts.


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## Tom (Dec 12, 2016)

Yes! I really enjoy threads like these. It gives me a chance to talk about one of my biggest interests, cultural anthropology. 

So, number one: avoid monoculture. That's the biggest thing. A lot of (and when I say a lot I mean most) fantasies with an Asian setting present a homogeneous culture with no variation at all. This simply isn't true, especially when you look at Asian cultures and see the variation between them and within them. China, for instance, is made up of hundreds of ethnic groups, all with their own cultures, which exist in syncretism or in conflict with the dominant culture. Throughout its history its culture has been dominated by dozens of different ethnic groups, creating a fusion (predominantly of Han, Manchu, and Zhuang culture) that we now consider Chinese culture. Japan is not a cultural monolith, either--the indigenous Ainu people, for instance, are culturally distinct from the Japanese. 

Penpilot has a good point about Avatar. The show was all good because it was Asian characters from Asian cultures, but then the movie came along and, as I remember, only Zuko was Asian (which brings up a whole different set of unfortunate implications). If your characters are in an Asian world, they should be Asian. I would add that they should also belong to the correct ethnic group; not doing so implies that all Asians are interchangeable regardless of ethnicity. You wouldn't take Italian characters and drop them in a Celtic culture, even though both are geographically European ethnic groups. This is no different. EDIT: This is a problem more typical of visual media such as film, but it's still an important thing to keep in mind, especially if you're basing your characters' appearances on real people's.

Another thing I'd add is to be careful about what cultural elements you use, and how you use them. Taking something sacred or significant to that culture and removing its cultural context is offensive, especially if you include that thing for purely aesthetic reasons. For example, if I wrote about a culture that builds gates in front of temples (like Shinto _torii_ gates), it would be offensive if I included that element just "because it's cool". Torii gates have a sacred function in Shinto religion, and if I'm going to write about a culture that uses them I'm going to have to keep them in their cultural context (as a symbolic representation of the transition between the mundane and the sacred).


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## D. Gray Warrior (Dec 12, 2016)

Tom Nimenai said:


> Yes! I really enjoy threads like these. It gives me a chance to talk about one of my biggest interests, cultural anthropology.
> 
> So, number one: avoid monoculture. That's the biggest thing. A lot of (and when I say a lot I mean most) fantasies with an Asian setting present a homogeneous culture with no variation at all. This simply isn't true, especially when you look at Asian cultures and see the variation between them and within them. China, for instance, is made up of hundreds of ethnic groups, all with their own cultures, which exist in syncretism or in conflict with the dominant culture. Throughout its history its culture has been dominated by dozens of different ethnic groups, creating a fusion (predominantly of Han, Manchu, and Zhuang culture) that we now consider Chinese culture. Japan is not a cultural monolith, either--the indigenous Ainu people, for instance, are culturally distinct from the Japanese.
> 
> ...



I want to base the world on SE Asia because they don't get nearly as much attention compared to China and Japan.

Like you said, I do have a problem with some of the Asian symbolism in a fantasy world. Just because the fantasy world is Asianesque doesn't mean they would have yin- yangs and Toriis.


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## Tom (Dec 12, 2016)

D. Gray Warrior said:


> I want to base the world on SE Asia because they don't get nearly as much attention compared to China and Japan.
> 
> Like you said, I do have a problem with some of the Asian symbolism in a fantasy world. Just because the fantasy world is Asianesque doesn't mean they would have yin- yangs and Toriis.



That's awesome! Southeast Asia doesn't get much representation in fantasy. I'd be excited to read it once you have some written, if you're willing to let me.

Asian symbolism in fantasy is extremely limited and simplistic, I agree. I think it's caused by Western writers subconsciously condensing Asian culture into what they know from media, which often consists of stereotypes. It's frustrating how often nuance and complexity are absent in fantasy cultures.


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## Tangle Shine (Dec 14, 2016)

D. Gray Warrior said:


> I want to base the world on SE Asia because they don't get nearly as much attention compared to China and Japan.
> 
> Like you said, I do have a problem with some of the Asian symbolism in a fantasy world. Just because the fantasy world is Asianesque doesn't mean they would have yin- yangs and Toriis.



One approach is to examine the societal structures within these SE Asian civilizations (in the name of Malaysians). For example, one of the triumphant periods was when Malacca Sultanate became one of the busiest entreport after the legendary Parameswara I (later convert to Islam, renaming himself Iskandar Shah) in the 15th century. Conversion of faith was embraced and later proclaimed "Golden Age of Malacca" due to its vast thalassocratic empire and wealth, until Portuguese came into the show and conquered its capital. SE Asia is mostly based on two types of economics: agrarianism and maritime trade. These regions, especially Malacca, was centered around international trade while agrarian kingdoms (mostly vassal states by the empire) were to provide staple food which is notably rice for the empire. Hence, two types of economics collaborate to achieve maximum effort to strengthen the thalassocracy.

I cannot elaborate all on it now because I am basically giving you some ideas to follow up the path towards SE Asian theme of worldbuilding. Conclusively, the culture is generally the flow between agrarian and maritime drives (like Mercantile Venice). I hope that this can help you with the project you are working on.


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