# Aliens in fantasy?



## Saigonnus (Dec 20, 2012)

I have been watching all sorts of stuff on the concept of aliens visiting our ancestors and it got me thinking how rare it is to incorporate aliens into fantasy. I can think of just one or two books that had the concept within it. I remember one (can't recall the name) where aliens invaded earth during the middle ages. What do you guys think about the concept? Should there be more aliens in fantasy? Would it be considered science fiction or fantasy?


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## ThinkerX (Dec 21, 2012)

Welcome to my (fictional) world.

A world where aliens kidnapped thousands of humans over a period of thousands of years, and took them to a world as experimental subjects and labor before reaching too far and (mostly) perishing.  A world where brutal alien experiments amplified some humans native psi potential to the point where they became 'magicians' and turned others into dwarves and elves (in a way, sort of).  Nor were humans the only race brought here - the old ones, the ancient aliens brought other sapient races here as well, combining genetic material to form new races for their own ends.

I did swipe a lot from Lovecraft, though.


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## Saigonnus (Dec 21, 2012)

Sounds like fun, I think I would make it more like a traditional fantasy world with all its problems and trappings and suddenly drop aliens into the mix, like their first visit to the planet. How would the different races react to these visitors? What would the aliens want there or why would they choose to visit? Slave labor is all well and good, but I can imagine them wanting resources beyond the slave concept. I can see technology vs. magic battles, dragons vs. space fighters


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## ThinkerX (Dec 21, 2012)

Mostly, I was trying to account for origins:  how is it that you have an entirely different planet (fantasy world) with humans, and earth style flora and fauna?

But...



> Sounds like fun, I think I would make it more like a traditional fantasy world with all its problems and trappings and suddenly drop aliens into the mix, like their first visit to the planet. How would the different races react to these visitors? What would the aliens want there or why would they choose to visit? Slave labor is all well and good, but I can imagine them wanting resources beyond the slave concept. I can see technology vs. magic battles, dragons vs. space fighters



Much of this does come into effect.

At the time most of my stories are set, the original aliens have been almost entirely gone for millenia, and the cultures...are not greatly different from those in other fantasy worlds.  Indeed, the original aliens are now seen as near mythical demons.  But...should I progress that far with the various tales, what happens is a new bunch of aliens shows up enmass and starts throwing their weight around about the time the most advanced fantasy cultures are experimenting with steam power and flintlocks. 

And the Lovecraftian Gods are in the background, laughing and scheming...


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## BWFoster78 (Dec 21, 2012)

I had a thought for a plotline that I doubt I'll ever use:

Humans find alien world in early state of civilization.  They decide to play god.  Using technology that allows them to travel near the speed of light, they use relativity to influence the civilization over a long period of time, shaping it to what they think it should be.

Not sure where it would go from there, but I think the concept offers a lot of interest.

Edited to may clear the connection to the OP: You could easily turn the plot around so that the space travelers are aliens and the humans society they influence is a fantasy setting.


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## Alexandra (Dec 21, 2012)

For me the presence of aliens equals sci-fi.


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## Phietadix (Dec 21, 2012)

@ThinkerX You could make humans be the aliens in your story, wanting to have a real middle earth or something.


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## ALB2012 (Dec 21, 2012)

Hmm interesting concept. I would say a lot of people write fantasy in a world we would recognise- earth type of world, often medieval or darkages because certainly planetarily (is that a word?) what else do we know? A lot of people like to have something familiar, even if the races are not. There is no reason why not however. Look at Star Wars- why are the main heroes human- Luke, Leia, Han, etc. The aliens play a more secondary role. There is no reason why any other planet or world should have human people or human looking people on it but I guess it is "comfortable."

Even in fantasy the more alien looking creatures are often the baddies- orcs, trolls, lizardfolk, or at least "other" such as elementals or such like. 

I can't remember having read any alien fantasy but I vaguely recall something about elves being aliens from somewhere. 

I would guess, to an extent, sci fi is alien fantasy...


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## Zero Angel (Dec 21, 2012)

Saigonnus said:


> I have been watching all sorts of stuff on the concept of aliens visiting our ancestors and it got me thinking how rare it is to incorporate aliens into fantasy. I can think of just one or two books that had the concept within it. I remember one (can't recall the name) where aliens invaded earth during the middle ages. What do you guys think about the concept? Should there be more aliens in fantasy? Would it be considered science fiction or fantasy?



It would be considered speculative fiction, and what people call it would depend on the person and which idea takes precedence. If it's set in space, people would probably consider it sci-fi regardless if there is magick or tech (look at Star Wars, which is basically a fantasy in space). On the other hand, there's an entire brand of sci-fi out there that disguises itself as fantasy (such as Anne McCaffrey's Pern series or Dune). Frequently, advanced spacefaring creatures develop magick-like abilities (such as telepathy and psionics). 

In my main series (War of the Ages), it is Earth-similar from 10,000 BC to 3,000 AD, and from 2050-2999, humans do travel the stars and even encounter alien civilizations, but then in 3000 the barrier that had been locking away magick from the universe since 10,000 BC comes undone (through doomsday reality bombs) and magick comes back into the world, along with thousands of pocket realms that had been housing creatures and locations whose existence depended on magick. In space, it becomes a war between man and the robot-like Galateans against hordes of demons, where aliens typically fall all about the place depending on the civilization. Some just eke out an existence, some try to flee to the (relative) safety of Earth, some remain neutral, some side with the demons and some side with the hume/Galatean alliance. 

On Earth, it's fantasy versus Galateans until around 10,000 AD, where the Galateans are all but wiped out. Then it's fantasy normal until around 33,000 AD when the first novel takes place. 



ALB2012 said:


> I can't remember having read any alien fantasy but I vaguely recall something about elves being aliens from somewhere.
> 
> I would guess, to an extent, sci fi is alien fantasy...



Elves are typically dimensional aliens if not natural, called "outsiders" by D&D. Actually, this is similar to the general idea of Cthulu / Lovecraftian aliens, but Lovecraft's comes from the "Far Realm", whereas elves come from something relatively close.


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## Saigonnus (Dec 21, 2012)

Zero Angel said:


> It would be considered speculative fiction, and what people call it would depend on the person and which idea takes precedence. If it's set in space, people would probably consider it sci-fi regardless if there is magick or tech (look at Star Wars, which is basically a fantasy in space). On the other hand, there's an entire brand of sci-fi out there that disguises itself as fantasy (such as Anne McCaffrey's Pern series or Dune). Frequently, advanced spacefaring creatures develop magick-like abilities (such as telepathy and psionics).



For me, I think I would make it more like Robinson Crusoe... where the aliens come to visit, but end up stuck there for whatever reason, so space wouldn't really come into it much, only the technology the aliens possess; which I would think the natives would simply take as "magic".


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## Darkblade (Dec 24, 2012)

China MiÃ©ville used that in the background in his Bas-Lag series. Of course he is also a major pro-ponent of taking fantasy away from the traditional tolkien-esque mould, being more in favour of an anything can go setting.


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## Anders Ã„mting (Dec 25, 2012)

Alexandra said:


> For me the presence of aliens equals sci-fi.



What if they get around via magic?

In fact, if you write a story about a guy summoning a demon from another world, that demon is technically an extraterrestrial alien. You know, on account of it not being from Earth. We're just used to thinking about it differently.

For that matter, take the Vulcans from Star Trek and stick them in a pre-industrial fantasy world. Boom, you've got elves, basically.

It's all a matter of context. And frankly, I think we can learn something from the sci-fi genre in this regard, because when a fantasy writer want to come up with some fantasy races, you get variations of elves and orcs and dwarves. But if you ask science fiction writers to invent some aliens, they _all sorts of creative._


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## Alexandra (Dec 25, 2012)

Anders, perhaps I should clarify; when I said "alien" I meant those which visit Earth, or wherever, from another planet, another dimension, another time, et al via technology—aliens in a scientific sense as opposed to a supernatural sense. I consider the demon you offered in your example to be a supernatural being, not an alien. As to Vulcans, pointed ears do not necessarily elfin make.

I agree that fantasy writers could learn a thing or two from sci-fi writers when it comes to creating new races; their trick may be to weave the new creations into their fantasy worlds without having their worlds look like they've been invaded by a fleet of starships.


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## Mindfire (Dec 25, 2012)

Alexandra said:


> Anders, perhaps I should clarify; when I said "alien" I meant those which visit Earth, or wherever, from another planet, another dimension, another time, et al via technology—aliens in a scientific sense as opposed to a supernatural sense. I consider the demon you offered in your example to be a supernatural being, not an alien. As to Vulcans, pointed ears do not necessarily elfin make.
> 
> I agree that fantasy writers could learn a thing or two from sci-fi writers when it comes to creating new races; their trick may be to weave the new creations into their fantasy worlds without having their worlds look like they've been invaded by a fleet of starships.



Many science fiction franchises have confronted the "supernatural" in various ways. Star Trek comes to mind. And Star Wars is so permeated by the idea of "supernatural" that some consider it to be in the fantasy camp rather than sci-fi. As for Vulcans, they resemble elves in more ways than just their ears: being a species "more advanced" than humans, their stoic nature, longer-than-human life span, etc.


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## Alexandra (Dec 25, 2012)

Mindfire said:


> Many science fiction franchises have confronted the "supernatural" in various ways. Star Trek comes to mind. And Star Wars is so permeated by the idea of "supernatural" that some consider it to be in the fantasy camp rather than sci-fi. As for Vulcans, they resemble elves in more ways than just their ears: being a species "more advanced" than humans, their stoic nature, longer-than-human life span, etc.



The supernatural in Star Trek; are you referring to Q, the character who just seemed to pop in and out of the Enterprise to cause trouble? Q struck me as an experimental character, someone the writers just fooled around with. If not, I don't know who or what you're referring to (I admit to not being a fan of Star Trek, at best I was a casual viewer; I probably missed a lot). I don't see Vulcans as elfin but then I don't see elves as being particularly stodgy and stoic, or ruled by logic. Whether elves or Vulcans are more advanced than humans is, in many respects, a judgement call. If Spock was typical of his kin, they've lots to learn.

There was certainly a magickal element in Star Wars; would that make the story/world a fusion?


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## Saigonnus (Dec 25, 2012)

Even technology used by aliens in a fantasy novel could be construed by the denizens of said fantasy world as being "magic" as opposed to technology (depending on what it is of course), since it is not something they probably understand. What is a hologram but an illusion made with mirrors and lights or energy fields? 

I personally think that the lines between fantasy and science fiction are somewhat obscure since they share many of the same aspects and simply use one plot device (magic) instead of another (technology). There is very little you cannot do using magic as opposed to technology. I remember the series "Voyage of the Jerle Shannara" where they used magical crystals to power a flying ship; why couldn't the same thing be possible for a space ship? Why couldn't you use magic to create the forcefield to protect the ship from impacts or create oxygen from a magical device for the ship's ventilation system? 

Would the above be considered fantasy or science fiction?


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## Rullenzar (Dec 25, 2012)

Honestly, I'd have to say it would depend on who your main characters are in this situation. If your main character is an alien then sci-fi. If your main character is of the magic side, then fantasy. Or, you could look at it in a more general way. If it involves any sort of alien whatsoever then sci-fi.

Look at 'Cowboys and Aliens', do you think that is cowboy western or sci-fi? It was classified as sci-fi.

On the other hand though if you can convince your readers without the shadow of a doubt that the aliens are using magic to power their tech too then yoiu might be able toi get away with calling it fantasy.


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## Saigonnus (Dec 25, 2012)

Rullenzar said:


> Honestly, I'd have to say it would depend on who your main characters are in this situation. If your main character is an alien then sci-fi. If your main character is of the magic side, then fantasy. Or, you could look at it in a more general way. If it involves any sort of alien whatsoever then sci-fi.
> 
> Look at 'Cowboys and Aliens', do you think that is cowboy western or sci-fi? It was classified as sci-fi.
> 
> On the other hand though if you can convince your readers without the shadow of a doubt that the aliens are using magic to power their tech too then yoiu might be able toi get away with calling it fantasy.



Thanks for the input, I was curious more than anything how to classify the concept since people tend to want to classify things.


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## saellys (Dec 28, 2012)

The overwhelming majority of fantasy I've read takes place on a world that isn't Earth, so technically all the characters, even the humans, are aliens. That doesn't mean it's not still fantasy. Even after Anne McCaffrey wrote the Earth-origin back story for the Pern series, complete with spaceships and stuff, those books were still classified as fantasy.


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