# What're your feelings about reading other books in same genre while you're writing



## gia (Nov 15, 2016)

I go back and forth on this one. Will someone else's book affect my own creative process (as in I'll copy them?) Or will it enhance my writing (how did they handle POV?)


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## Michael K. Eidson (Nov 15, 2016)

If I didn't read other books in the same genre as the one I'm writing in, I'd never read any fantasy books. I don't plagiarize, so I figure I'm good. There are bits of my stories that are similar in some fashion to bits of stories written by other authors, but I don't know how one could expect to completely avoid some similarities to other works.


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## Heliotrope (Nov 15, 2016)

I do it. 

I'm writing Middle Grades fiction right now, so I'm reading a lot of Rick Roirden and others who are similar in style to my story. It lets me know what is out there already in the market, what agents and publishers are looking for in the genre, what might be missing in the market (female POV's, characters with disabilities etc), and subject matter that is deemed appropriate for the age range.


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## cydare (Nov 15, 2016)

Personally, I find that it helps me. It keeps me focused on what I'm writing, whereas reading books in wildly different genres for different audiences can distract me from my story. Just recently, I was trying to write a middle-grade piece whilst reading a whole lot of adult fantasy. I started lamenting all the gritty things I couldn't add without completely changing what my story was about, and had to stop myself from adding child-inappropriate plot points.


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## skip.knox (Nov 15, 2016)

> Will someone else's book affect my own creative process (as in I'll copy them?) Or will it enhance my writing?

Yes to both. Especially for the new writer, you will definitely be influenced and you will find yourself imitating (not copying; that's something different). That's okay. The way you find your own voice is by trying out lots of voices. I don't like that phrase "find your voice" anyway. It's not like it's hiding somewhere, waiting to be found. You *develop* your voice, and that cannot be done without influences.

In the longer run, the imitation will get folded into your own voice, and it will be richer for it. I'm assuming you do not have a crystal-clear idea of exactly how you want to write. So, go ahead and experiment. Write and be influenced, then write again. Be unafraid!


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## Malik (Nov 15, 2016)

I'm reading 5-6 books at any given time. Pile of books next to my bedside, pile of books next to my armchair, pile of books on my desk, boxes of books in my office. And I'm working on my sequel.

Reading is breathing in. Writing is breathing out.


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## Chessie (Nov 15, 2016)

gia said:


> I go back and forth on this one. Will someone else's book affect my own creative process (as in I'll copy them?) Or will it enhance my writing (how did they handle POV?)



Um..you _should_ be reading all the time if you desire to be a good writer/storyteller, especially be reading in your genre and keeping up with its ebb and flows. You'd be doing yourself a disservice otherwise. Reading is the best way to learn how to tell stories. If you don't read, then how are you supposed to know the ins and outs of your genre? How are you supposed to know what readers want/look for/dislike in that genre if you're not reading in it? It's like wanting to write scripts for movies but never watching any.


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## Demesnedenoir (Nov 15, 2016)

I'll play the contrarian... I don't read when writing, in part because I am a mimic (or used to be), and in part because when I am writing I have absolutely no desire to read nor the time. I think the mimic thing is mostly gone now, I'm old and kind of stuck in my ways, but reading/writing are sitting still, and I don't do still very well, so if I'm still, I'm going to write, not read. 

Now I do read bits and pieces of writers/books as study or to satisfy curiosity, but that's it. I'll read more history as study, not genre. If GRRM's next book ever gets pub'd I'll read it... Might read Tad Williams's new one... I've started Malik's book... but it might take me years to finish anything, heh heh. Could say I'm in the middle of reading 30 books.

As for studying the market and trends? Nope, not going there. It's a bit like a bobcat chasing it's tail. My stories are my stories, they either find a market or they don't.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Nov 15, 2016)

Yes, it'll affect your creative process for sure. I can see almost every book I've read recently in my WIP. Writers are magpies--they latch onto anything they like and stash it away, and I'm especially. However, this is definitely not a reason not to read! You draw inspiration from other's books. You do and it's good. Believe it or not no idea is "original." It came from somewhere, whether from your own knowledge and experience or something you read. 

Reading a LOT somewhat mitigates the magpie effect, or keeps it from being obvious. You'll have inspiration from so many places the individual sources can't be isolated. That's what you want, really.

"Stealing from one source is plagiarism; stealing from multiple sources is research," Ever heard that? It's true in fiction writing. 

Weirdly, your writing will be MOST cliche if youre not familiar with the genre you're writing in, because you won't know what's been already done a thousand billion times. Many cliches are so common because they're so easy to slip into. 

Also--you absolutely MUST read to be a good writer. Reading feeds the creative process. Writing without reading is like watering a bare patch of ground without planting anything there trying to grow a flower garden. To be balanced i reckon you should spend at least the same amount of time reading as you do writing.

Read. And i would like to emphasize this: *read GOOD books.* I know, the definition of "good" is subjective, but I'm saying read the masters. Avoid mainstream pulp that makes your brain go numb, and deliberately seek out quality writing. Why? The magpie effect, mentioned above. We tend to mimic. We tend to write slightly worse than we read, and for this reason you should be reading well to write well. An athlete has to eat well to perform well. So does your muse. 

When I read a mediocre writing style, it sounds like a dull buzzing in my head, but a masterful style will sound almost musical. That's kind of how I judge writing style. 

Personal anecdote: I adore the Harry Potter series, but it's not because of the writing. Rowling's prose is mediocre to okay. While rereading her books I've picked up some bad habits,  not least of which is a propensity toward adverbial dialogue tags. My WIP is a slew of them. I kept noticing them in the Harry Potter books and I think that must be why I'm having problems with them now. 

I would as well add that you should read actively, not passively. Get as much as you can out of your reading; learn from it. If a scene made you cry, ask yourself why. If you really like a character, think about how the author portrayed them in such a way that made you feel that way. If you love a writer's description, study it! Be a scientist; put every book on a table and dissect it. Ask why. 

(You can do this with bad books too, to find out what not to do...but bad reading has to be balanced very heavily with good reading.)


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Nov 15, 2016)

*i'm not exactly following my own rule about reading as much as you write, so i'm a bit of a hypocrite, but I'm getting better at it.


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## Chessie (Nov 15, 2016)

Mainstream pulp is far from bunk. There are plenty of good reads in the modern pulp fiction world that are far from mediocre. Saying that these works will make your brain go numb makes me ask, "why? Which ones are you reading then?" Clearly none because pulp isn't brain dead literature.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Nov 15, 2016)

Chesterama said:


> Mainstream pulp is far from bunk. There are plenty of good reads in the modern pulp fiction world that are far from mediocre.



That is true. I don't want to sound like I'm dismissing an entire category of literature. But in my experience, good writing is really really REALLY hard to find. (Sturgeon's Law is my life quote.) So, you've got to be picky, and sometimes this means going with the stuff that's stood the test of time. 

Like, i enjoy reading YA *in theory* but I can't stand 98% of it because of two reasons: the horrible writing, and the romance-dominated plots. (Usually very shallow and involving a love triangle) I like romance mostly only in controlled doses. and i can't stand it when it's shallow. 

Well. The writing isn't usually horrible, but it usually isn't good either. It just *is*. My brain  starts to feel numb after a while, reading it. 

My suggestion to the OP is to deliberately seek out masterful writing. Stuff they can learn from. Read from writers a lot better than you, and outright avoid stuff that's below you. (Not that i don't occasionally read fluff, but it can't be too fluffy or I'll be physically incapable of making it through.)


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## Chessie (Nov 15, 2016)

Masterful writing is subjective. What readers eat up is story, not prose. There are writers out there doing well for themselves that aren't very skilled in writing "masterful" prose but they have a devoted audience. Why? Because they tell good stories. Authors the like of Stephenie Meyers and E.L. James are looked down upon for writing crappy prose but they're swimming in their money ponds right now. Why? Because they told good stories. That's what matters. Is telling a story that readers want. Everything else from beautiful prose to lack of pronouns is subjective.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Nov 15, 2016)

Chesterama said:


> Masterful writing is subjective. What readers eat up is story, not prose. There are writers out there doing well for themselves that aren't very skilled in writing "masterful" prose but they have a devoted audience. Why? Because they tell good stories. Authors the like of Stephenie Meyers and E.L. James are looked down upon for writing crappy prose but they're swimming in their money ponds right now. Why? Because they told good stories. That's what matters. Is telling a story that readers want. Everything else from beautiful prose to lack of pronouns is subjective.



Good prose is very important to me. It might not be as important to others in favor of characters and plotlines. That's ok. I'm simply observing something that's affected me. The OP can choose to take my advice or leave it. 

I could go into whether or not something selling means it's "good..." or if telling a story readers want should be the goal. For me, it isn't. My WIP's would both be hard sells in today's market but i'm okay with that. A money pond isn't why I write. But others are different.


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## Demesnedenoir (Nov 15, 2016)

I also recommend reading crap, for study, because it teaches you what not to do. It can help turn on the interior editor brain one needs. Even better than pub'd crap, read people's first drafts that might be great later, but are rough "oh holy cow!" as they sit, LOL. We've all written that stuff, and it's good to see other people's ugly drafts. Being an early draft will make bad things pop out at you even more.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Nov 15, 2016)

Demesnedenoir said:


> I also recommend reading crap, for study, because it teaches you what not to do. It can help turn on the interior editor brain one needs. Even better than pub'd crap, read people's first drafts that might be great later, but are rough "oh holy cow!" as they sit, LOL. We've all written that stuff, and it's good to see other people's ugly drafts. Being an early draft will make bad things pop out at you even more.



I'll admit, I've gotten a lot out of reading crap. 

Whenever I read I analyze: what the writer did wrong, what they did right...


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## Demesnedenoir (Nov 15, 2016)

Ditto, both for reading and writing. If I can't read it, I'll never know if the story is worth reading. No story is worth fighting through bad writing for. If my prose isn't good, I'll never finish it no matter how good the story. 



DragonOfTheAerie said:


> Good prose is very important to me. It might not be as important to others in favor of characters and plotlines. That's ok. I'm simply observing something that's affected me. The OP can choose to take my advice or leave it.
> 
> I could go into whether or not something selling means it's "good..." or if telling a story readers want should be the goal. For me, it isn't. My WIP's would both be hard sells in today's market but i'm okay with that. A money pond isn't why I write. But others are different.


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## Chessie (Nov 15, 2016)

I'm not saying good prose isn't important. It is to me as well. But I am, however, saying that story is more important than prose, and anyone who wants to write books should learn how to tell stories well. Learning how to tell a story is pretty much only learned by reading books one enjoys, back to the OP.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Nov 15, 2016)

Chesterama said:


> I'm not saying good prose isn't important. It is to me as well. But I am, however, saying that story is more important than prose, and anyone who wants to write books should learn how to tell stories well. Learning how to tell a story is pretty much only learned by reading books one enjoys, back to the OP.



I guess this is our difference--poor prose impairs my ability to enjoy a story as much or more than poor story. I just can't get through it. And often good writing will get me through a story I wouldn't ordinarily like. (Good writing isn't a band-aid slappable on any steaming pile of boring--but it helps, it does help.) 

Please don't read things you don't enjoy, you'll get into a reading slump like I did recently and take months to recover! I knida got into the reading slump following my own advice. But know that reading mediocre prose will make your prose mediocre if you aren't careful. You will pick up the bad habits of writers you read. 

The worst thing you can do is always to NOT read, of course. Better pulp than nothing. And some people don't do well without a little fluff in their lives. (I'm not that person. But still.) Of course, the definition of 'fluff' is also subjective--I know many on here would consider Harry Potter fluff--but let's walk this road no longer...


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## Demesnedenoir (Nov 15, 2016)

The devil's advocate says not so fast my friend. Story is a proverbial cat waiting to be skinned, reading novels is one route... very useful if that's what you intend to write, but in this multi-media universe story can learned and studied (perhaps even more efficiently) via film. One pretty much needs to read in order to learn how to write well, but but you don't even need to know how to write in order to tell a great story. 



Chesterama said:


> I'm not saying good prose isn't important. It is to me as well. But I am, however, saying that story is more important than prose, and anyone who wants to write books should learn how to tell stories well. Learning how to tell a story is pretty much only learned by reading books one enjoys, back to the OP.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Nov 15, 2016)

Demesnedenoir said:


> The devil's advocate says not so fast my friend. Story is a proverbial cat waiting to be skinned, reading novels is one route... very useful if that's what you intend to write, but in this multi-media universe story can learned and studied (perhaps even more efficiently) via film. One pretty much needs to read in order to learn how to write well, but but you don't even need to know how to write in order to tell a great story.



This. Plot is super condensed and easily visible in film. It's like an outline. Identify the plot points. write them down as you watch.


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## Chessie (Nov 15, 2016)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> I guess this is our difference--poor prose impairs my ability to enjoy a story as much or more than poor story. I just can't get through it. And often good writing will get me through a story I wouldn't ordinarily like. (Good writing isn't a band-aid slappable on any steaming pile of boring--but it helps, it does help.)
> 
> Please don't read things you don't enjoy, you'll get into a reading slump like I did recently and take months to recover! I knida got into the reading slump following my own advice. But know that reading mediocre prose will make your prose mediocre if you aren't careful. You will pick up the bad habits of writers you read.
> 
> The worst thing you can do is always to NOT read, of course. Better pulp than nothing. And some people don't do well without a little fluff in their lives. (I'm not that person. But still.) Of course, the definition of 'fluff' is also subjective--I know many on here would consider Harry Potter fluff--but let's walk this road no longer...



Um...if I say that prose is important to me, then how is that saying that I read stories despite the prose being bad? I'm pretty sure that's not what my point was/even typed those words. Also, when you say better pulp than nothing: unless you know the author personally, then how would you know how long it took him/her to write the book? Pulp is defined by the speed at which it's written. What does pulp look like? Hint, it looks like all the other genre fiction out there. So there's really no way to tell whether a book you're reading is pulp fiction or not because pulp authors don't label their books as such. Also, there are authors out there who write at speeds considered pulp whose prose and story would be indistinguishable from books that have taken longer to write.


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## Chessie (Nov 15, 2016)

Demesnedenoir said:


> The devil's advocate says not so fast my friend. Story is a proverbial cat waiting to be skinned, reading novels is one route... very useful if that's what you intend to write, but in this multi-media universe story can learned and studied (perhaps even more efficiently) via film. One pretty much needs to read in order to learn how to write well, but but you don't even need to know how to write in order to tell a great story.



I completely disagree and you're also contradicting yourself. If you're on the side that prose is important in being able to tell a good story, then you must know how to write. Right? If you don't know how to construct prose in a way that's clear to the reader, how is the story supposed to shine through?

Films do use the same plot points that novels do, true. However, they do things differently. Come on, Des!  Movies are a visual medium. Books are mental. So a different approach is needed when creating either one. If you're not reading fiction, then you're not going to understand how to build a narrative that connects those plot points into a good story. More helpful to the novelist is reading vs watching movies.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Nov 15, 2016)

Chesterama said:


> Um...if I say that prose is important to me, then how is that saying that I read stories despite the prose being bad? I'm pretty sure that's not what my point was/even typed those words. Also, when you say better pulp than nothing: unless you know the author personally, then how would you know how long it took him/her to write the book? Pulp is defined by the speed at which it's written. What does pulp look like? Hint, it looks like all the other genre fiction out there. So there's really no way to tell whether a book you're reading is pulp fiction or not because pulp authors don't label their books as such. Also, there are authors out there who write at speeds considered pulp whose prose and story would be indistinguishable from books that have taken longer to write.



You didn't say you read stories despite the prose being bad and I didn't say you said that. 

And yeah, I am making a generalization. Not an unwarranted one, though--good books are rare (at least for someone as picky as me), and there are a lot of them to wade through nowadays to find anything that's not a waste of trees. (The popularity of ebooks does mitigate my tree concerns.) Also I wasn't sure of the specific definition of pulp fiction (I use words knowing only usual context and not definition all the time. all. the. time.) so sorry about that. Meant something broader, the mainstream generally, the 'trendy' stuff  (though I kinda was thinking about authors spitting out bestsellers at insanely fast rates, factory fashion...) 

Please don't take me as one of those people that thinks only classics are worth anyone's time. (Though I haven't been reading a lot else lately.) I'm feeling a little desolated by the 'popular' stuff right now. I don't know about the adult market, but in the YA market the style is all painfully generic and the plots are all the same. I would want to flush out my brain after reading one. 

I stand by my view that you can't improve by reading *just anything*. Just...idk. Read stuff that's above you. A discussion of how exactly you define quality could last forever.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Nov 15, 2016)

Chesterama said:


> I completely disagree and you're also contradicting yourself. If you're on the side that prose is important in being able to tell a good story, then you must know how to write. Right? If you don't know how to construct prose in a way that's clear to the reader, how is the story supposed to shine through?
> 
> Films do use the same plot points that novels do, true. However, they do things differently. Come on, Des!  Movies are a visual medium. Books are mental. So a different approach is needed when creating either one. If you're not reading fiction, then you're not going to understand how to build a narrative that connects those plot points into a good story. More helpful to the novelist is reading vs watching movies.



Also very true. But if it's plot you want to learn...The idea attracts me since plot is what I struggle most with.


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## TheCatholicCrow (Nov 16, 2016)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> I don't know about the adult market, but in the YA market the style is all painfully generic and the plots are all the same. I would want to flush out my brain after reading one.



This might be part of the problem ... YA is all about coming of age so it tends to be formulaic by nature. I started reading "adult" books in sixth grade and never looked back. There's very little originality in the YA world and I don't think there needs to be ... you're only in the target demographic for a handful of years before you progress forward to NA or just plain adult so the need to keep you coming back for more just isn't there. Essentially, the readers (more or less) age out of the genre so being new/fresh/hip just doesn't matter as much. It's a bit like children's books. If someone ripped off Goodnight Moon I wouldn't even notice because I'm no longer reading children's books.

That being said, traditional publishing tries to squeeze out every last dollar from every trend they can before moving on. That's just the nature of the big five. 

Pulp tends to be more about quick reads and entertainment than philosophy & social commentary. Everything has its time, place, and market. To each his own. 

But ... maybe think about moving into "adult" fiction. There's a heck of lot more of it and in my opinion, it's almost always better written.


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## Heliotrope (Nov 16, 2016)

(Once again I stare at my little Middle Grades Pirate story that I love and shake my head while cradling it in my arms. Don't worry little story. I love you.) 

Gah! These conversations drive me bat shit crazy. 

Seriously. 

You guys do realize that there are thousands of styles and stories out there besides the Epic Dragon/ D & D fantasy right? 

Do you understand that 'adult' fiction means a swath of different things? 

You do understand that the market for each is geared towards just that 'the market' who consists of a vast variety of people in different age ranges with different reading abilities who read for different reasons? 

I can't stand, and it makes me so frustrated when we argue about "good prose" vs. "good story." 

It does. 

My son loves Clifford books and The Berenstain Bears and also the really crappy Lego Star Wars books that are out there right now. You know why? Because he's 5. 

An adult wrote those books. Yep. An adult sat down and wrote Clifford in all is "crappy, juvenile nonpoetic prose" and "unbelievable story lines." Can you believe it? A giant dog. Oh, how lame is that. But he made a crap load of money off those books and I buy them for my kid because they are written for the level he is at. 

I teach grade 3/4. My boys in my class eat up Diary of Wimpy Kid and Percy Jackson. They love them. In all the 'crappy writing and tropey story lines'. Because it is easy for them to read and understand and they relate to those tropey story lines. In fact, I would argue they find comfort in them. 

So please, until you guys are winning awards like Rick Riordan, and until you've actually done some market research into what your readers want and why stop bashing YA and its bad writing. 

It's not bad writing. It is written for a specific audience and it sells. Maybe not to you because  you are the literary elite obviously and if it isn't Lord of the Rings it's not worth being on the shelf. 

I'm going to regret posting this.


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## TheCatholicCrow (Nov 16, 2016)

Heliotrope said:


> So please, until you guys are winning awards like Rick Riordan, and until you've actually done some market research into what your readers want and why stop bashing YA and its bad writing.
> 
> It's not bad writing. It is written for a specific audience and it sells. Maybe not to you because you are the literary elite obviously and if it isn't Lord of the Rings it's not worth being on the shelf.
> 
> I'm going to regret posting this.



I totally agree only I'd like to clarify that when I said "better written" what I meant was better written for you & your tastes as an older person. Of course, "good" and "better" are subjective.  YA has a specific audience (just like cozy mysteries or any other market) so if you find yourself outside of the target audience, it might not appeal to you for that reason and not just because "it's bad".


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## Reaver (Nov 16, 2016)

Heliotrope said:


> I'm going to regret posting this.



Relax Helio. We're all entitled to a good rant every once in a while.  You didn't go after any previous poster here and that's great. I doubt that vented frustrations are going hurt someone's feelings or make them feel insulted. 

The key to any post in a thread like this is fostering mutual respect. As long as that standard is adhered to, albeit loosely in many cases, that's all that really matters.


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## Heliotrope (Nov 16, 2016)

Thanks, Reaver and Catholic Crow, I usually don't go on long rants like that but this topic drives me nuts. 



TheCatholicCrow said:


> YA has a specific audience (just like cozy mysteries or any other market) so if you find yourself outside of the target audience, it might not appeal to you for that reason and not just because "it's bad".



^^^ And this is why the OP is an important question. I think it is very valuable to read other books in your chosen genre... I chose to write Middle Grades because I think that is what I write best. That is the sort of story I'm drawn to. I'm inspired by children and adolescents and their vulnerability but also their resiliency. I write for them, and I also spend a good part of my life as a teacher reading for them, so I know what they want and what sort of language they understand. 

The same will be true for writers who are inspired by Mysteries, or paranormal romance, or animal adventures.


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## Chessie (Nov 16, 2016)

Actually, I agree with you, Helio, and your points are precisely the reason why I argue "good story" vs "good prose". It's something I believe is worth defending (story over prose specifically) because I hear a lot from other writers about how beautiful prose is everything. What matters is whether or not a book is meeting reader expectations for its genre. 

And yes, plot is formulaic and that's the entire point.


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## Reaver (Nov 16, 2016)

Heliotrope said:


> Thanks, Reaver and Catholic Crow, I usually don't go on long rants like that but this topic drives me nuts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I couldn't agree more Helio.  Insofar as this topic goes, I think you've been here long enough to know that it has popped up before and most assuredly it will again.  My advice is, for your own mental health and well being, avoid future threads that bring up this topic. 

I think that the demographic you've chosen to write for is a great one.  Being an educator, you already know how important it is to get kids interested in reading.  I think that they're lucky to have an author like you.  Back in my younger years, fantasy books for the YA crowd were practically non-existent. 

Luckily for me, the very first fantasy book I ever read was The Hobbit, which I'd argue is geared toward children eight years of age and beyond.


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## Svrtnsse (Nov 16, 2016)

Chesterama said:


> It's something I believe is worth defending (story over prose specifically) because I hear a lot from other writers about how beautiful prose is everything. What matters is whether or not a book is meeting reader expectations for its genre.



I'm still having issues with this. I spent a lot of time and effort trying to polish my prose, and I feel like I've only just begun to scratch the surface of actually telling a story.


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## Chessie (Nov 16, 2016)

Svrtnsse said:


> I'm still having issues with this. I spent a lot of time and effort trying to polish my prose, and I feel like I've only just begun to scratch the surface of actually telling a story.



And maybe that's just your process. Maybe you're learning what's in tune with where you are as a person and artist right now. Being mindful of it, I think, is what's more important. Knowing that at some point you're probably going to need to make that shift.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Nov 16, 2016)

Heliotrope said:


> (Once again I stare at my little Middle Grades Pirate story that I love and shake my head while cradling it in my arms. Don't worry little story. I love you.)
> 
> Gah! These conversations drive me bat shit crazy.
> 
> ...



Thanks for this. (I don't consider myself the literary elite, so I hope you didn't mean me.) Even though I don't like a lot of YA, it makes me sad when people bash YA as a whole. As if being written for teenagers makes a book bad. Or, of no value for the adult reader. 

Half of YA books are actually bought and read by adults. True thing. 

I mean, I'm technically within the target audience for YA, but the majority is mediocre. But when I do find one that I like...I love it when that happens. 

P.S. My brother, who didn't read at all a year ago, is now reading Percy Jackson and loves them. He's trying to make me read them so he will have someone to talk to about them. It's a seriously good thing that people write books for people like him who otherwise wouldn't read.


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## Svrtnsse (Nov 16, 2016)

I'd like to think so as well. One thing I've learned through all of this is confidence. Not only do I have the courage to show off what I do to people I have little to no idea who they are. I'm also confident I know my strengths and weaknesses in a whole different way than I did back in the day.
I'll get around to figuring out this whole story thing, but I think that for me the best way of doing it is to just keep writing. Try out different things, see what works and what doesn't. Eventually I'll start getting into craft books as well, reading more about writing, but I think that in order to really take advantage of that I need to have more experience to build upon.


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## Chessie (Nov 16, 2016)

Svrtnsse said:


> I'd like to think so as well. One thing I've learned through all of this is confidence. Not only do I have the courage to show off what I do to people I have little to no idea who they are. I'm also confident I know my strengths and weaknesses in a whole different way than I did back in the day.
> I'll get around to figuring out this whole story thing, but I think that for me the best way of doing it is to just keep writing. Try out different things, see what works and what doesn't. Eventually I'll start getting into craft books as well, reading more about writing, but I think that in order to really take advantage of that I need to have more experience to build upon.



It's never too early to read craft books. And in tying that back to the OP, I'll say that in desiring to improve as a writer, craft books are helpful to read alongside fiction. A lot of times I'll learn something in a craft book that I then spot being done in a novel. It's kind of cool being able to recognize such things. It reinforces what I learn.


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## Svrtnsse (Nov 16, 2016)

Chesterama said:


> It's never too early to read craft books. And in tying that back to the OP, I'll say that in desiring to improve as a writer, craft books are helpful to read alongside fiction. A lot of times I'll learn something in a craft book that I then spot being done in a novel. It's kind of cool being able to recognize such things. It reinforces what I learn.



Knowing me, I'll probably keep disagreeing with that until I actually start reading some and then I'll change my mind. It's happened way too many times in the past like that.


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## Demesnedenoir (Nov 16, 2016)

Nope, not contradictory. Great stories were told (and most likely used 3 acts) with verbal traditions. Prose is important to writing a great story... not telling one.

A great novel is a relationship between both, but rarely do both meet at a high level.



Chesterama said:


> I completely disagree and you're also contradicting yourself. If you're on the side that prose is important in being able to tell a good story, then you must know how to write. Right? If you don't know how to construct prose in a way that's clear to the reader, how is the story supposed to shine through?
> 
> Films do use the same plot points that novels do, true. However, they do things differently. Come on, Des!  Movies are a visual medium. Books are mental. So a different approach is needed when creating either one. If you're not reading fiction, then you're not going to understand how to build a narrative that connects those plot points into a good story. More helpful to the novelist is reading vs watching movies.


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## Demesnedenoir (Nov 16, 2016)

Chesterama said:


> I completely disagree and you're also contradicting yourself. If you're on the side that prose is important in being able to tell a good story, then you must know how to write. Right? If you don't know how to construct prose in a way that's clear to the reader, how is the story supposed to shine through?
> 
> Films do use the same plot points that novels do, true. However, they do things differently. Come on, Des!  Movies are a visual medium. Books are mental. So a different approach is needed when creating either one. If you're not reading fiction, then you're not going to understand how to build a narrative that connects those plot points into a good story. More helpful to the novelist is reading vs watching movies.



And I have to pick on the second part... nope, the approach is the same, novel and movie, when it comes to story. The mantra for making movies is: story, story, story! Wherever you look, there are parallels. There is essentially no difference in how you approach building a story between a novel and a screenplay, except of course one can be any length you want, theoretically, and a novel as an unlimited FX budget, LOL. Movies, if anything, tend to be even more story driven than novels, and building plot points and narrative... it's all the same. It's all storytelling. A novel might look more complex (for instance epic fantasy) but that's merely due to the lack of restraints in length. There really isn't a thing about storytelling you can't learn by watching movies.


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## Caged Maiden (Nov 16, 2016)

I love to take a break from the kinds of books I write...and read something else. Anything else. Right now, I'm reading MYTH Inc, In Action, one of my favorite books of all time. So funny. Told form the POV of one of Skeeve's bodyguards. I think I was fourteen and in love with this guy, when I first read it. So funny. I even took it to the waterpark with us a couple days ago, so I could read in the hot tub and while the kids were in the wave pool with Daddy. If you're struggling with getting your writing done, it can FEEL counterintuitive to spend time reading, but for me, I find that reading allows me to focus on something enjoyable, while my brain is still hammering away at the unidentifiable lump of metal that is my story stuck-ness. Reading can give your taxed brain a bit of recuperation, and it can help you get some ideas, however small. Maybe it's a bit of dialogue you think is funny. Or a method of showing how a character deals with a problem. 

I wouldn't be so concerned with copying things, because inspiration can come in many forms, and while I'd be concerned if I started writing my character with the dialogue habits of a magician's bodyguard, I've never had that happen. HA! I have, however, pulled scene structuring pointers from books I've loved, and by the time I was done writing my scene that I couldn't work out, I felt it was SO similar to the one I pulled inspiration from, but I know in my heart no one would ever see the similarities. 

So yes, read. Read whenever you need a break from writing, and maybe one day a week just for fun.


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## skip.knox (Nov 17, 2016)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> good writing is really really REALLY hard to find. (Sturgeon's Law is my life quote.)



Here's another one for you. 
"Begin by drawing and painting like the old masters. After that do as you see fit--you will always be respected."
               -- Salvador Dali

I figure if it's good enough for the guy with the funny mustache, it's good enough for me.
Also, he didn't just talk the talk. Have a look at his Basket of Bread, or Christ of Saint John of the Cross. I've seen the latter in person. It's something like six feet tall and four feet wide, and he painted it in 1951, long after he had become a surrealist.

Anyway, wandered off there a bit. The point is, reading books that have been highly regarded for more than one generation is almost never a waste of time, even if you didn't like the book.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Nov 17, 2016)

skip.knox said:


> Here's another one for you.
> "Begin by drawing and painting like the old masters. After that do as you see fit--you will always be respected."
> -- Salvador Dali
> 
> ...



That's what I mean by read stuff that's stood the test of time. It's been remembered for a reason.


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## TheCatholicCrow (Nov 17, 2016)

skip.knox said:


> The point is, reading books that have been highly regarded for more than one generation is almost never a waste of time, even if you didn't like the book.



That's precisely why Tom Brokaw's Greatest Generation is on my reading list. I figure it made an impression on my parents' generation and is about their parents' (/grandparents') generation so it's a win-win. Generations all around. LOL.

Seriously though, even if you don't like it (cough: Scarlet Letter :cough) it's still important to know what's come before you. For me, reading (widely) is an absolutely crucial part of the process and I can't imagine it any other way. If art is all about our influences, why not bust that door wide open and take in as much as you can? ...


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## gia (Nov 17, 2016)

Thanks everyone for your great comments, advise, and support!


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## ALB2012 (Nov 18, 2016)

I can't see that it hurts. I read a lot of other genres besides fantasy but I do still read it when I write. Any good book is worth it. After all inspiration comes from everywhere, and whilst your brain is having fun with true crime, mystery or romance your story brain is mulling over story. 

It's also useful to see how other writers write, and what works for you as a reader (or doesn't.) I don't know about anyone else but I can separate the reader me and the writer me.


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## A. E. Lowan (Nov 19, 2016)

I do it.  I'm doing it right now, in fact.  I'm normally reading five to seven books at any given time, usually two fiction and three to five research books, actively looking to replenish the creative well.  Movies and TV - _good_ TV - also work for this.  Ingesting within our genre helps to keep us informed and inspired.


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## Chessie (Nov 19, 2016)

A. E. Lowan said:


> I do it.  I'm doing it right now, in fact.  I'm normally reading five to seven books at any given time, usually two fiction and three to five research books, actively looking to replenish the creative well.  Movies and TV - _good_ TV - also work for this.  Ingesting within our genre helps to keep us informed and inspired.



I think it helps to read outside our chosen genre as well. Often, we write a mixture of fantasy + something else. I've found it helpful to read contemporary romance (even though it's not something I entirely enjoy) because I like to see how other authors approach the romance genre outside of fantasy. I also really like reading mystery and horror, elements that I like to play with in my own works. So reading a thriller or mystery or horror that's not set in a fantasy world can be a great way of honing in on how plots are structured in that genre, how the plot points are spun, how different authors approach telling these stories without fantasy elements there to distract us in a way. Just my take on it but I always breathe a sigh of relief when I come back to fantasy.


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## Ronald T. (Jan 16, 2017)

I have no problem with reading other authors in the same genre as mine while I write my own novels.  I've always done it this way.  

When I read a passage by another author that I find deeply exciting or unexpected, it inspires me to work harder, so that I might give the same gift to a reader of my work.  When another author plays with my emotions and cleverly makes me angry, or sad, or afraid, or makes me cry, I am driven to bring out these same emotions in my readers.  

So, as I said, it's not an problem for me...it's inspirational motivation.


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## neodoering (Jan 28, 2017)

Hmm.  Usually when I am writing a fantasy novel, I don't read other fantasy novels at the same time.  Maybe short stories, but not other novels.  Instead I read "classics," as several other people have suggested on this thread.  Like, _The Tale of Genji_, or Dante's _Inferno_, or _The Three Musketeers_.  Works that have been around a thousand years, or at least a few centuries, that are still considered powerful works of fiction today.  I read fantasy novels when I'm doing research for the novel I want to write.  I'm looking for recent works that exemplify the state of the industry right now, and give me an idea what's considered really good.  I don't write to that, I write from my own interests, but I want to know what I'm up against.


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## Kinzvlle (Feb 5, 2017)

I don`t see where reading things in your genre could be bad at all. You don`t want to copy anything directly or plagiarize but getting inspiration is fine, and not to uncommon to find it in otheer works that are out there, or trends in the genre at the time. Also learning from other`s work doesn`t mean just plot and setting ideas, other things like story structure or the way they go about world building and exposition without over doing it. I enjoyed the Wicther books (and games) and I read his short story collections which contain the shorts that came before the books. I read them with the purpose of enjoying them of course but also to see how he set up his world and backstory within the space of a short story without takeing to much word time away from the actual plot of the story itself. As said by others the classics are worth keeping a eye on to, not just to know what came before, or what impacted the genre but also to know what you may be judged against. I mean there`s people that can`t help but comparing any high fanstey to LOTR as a knee jerk. 

 I should also say while I believe you should read in your genre don`t only read in your genre. If for some reason your genres the only genre you like, try branching out into other subgenres. It`s goood to read various things for various reasons. I saw this graphic a while, back and it took me a bit to find it again but it`s interesting.


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## oenanthe (Feb 5, 2017)

This doesn't make any sense to me at all, because all the fiction I read influences me

that's...kind of the point.


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## writeshiek33 (Feb 12, 2017)

I read various books from fiction to non fiction. I tend to read most time same genre i want to write but i do read others as well for me it is absorbing the stuff .  


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Taniwha (Nov 28, 2018)

I read alot... until I'm writing. 
I'm too easily led and prefer to let my imagination do it's own thing. Some of what comes out of it seems fresh and some seems familiar.


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## Gurkhal (Nov 28, 2018)

I certainly read fantasy but I also try to read other stuff including certified quality literature so that I don't get to "bogged down" in one genre's conventions and clichés mentally. And if I will steal, then I'll steal from the best. 

And to be honest, reading crap fantasy is kind of amusing as its easy to blow through it without much thought between reading heavier works, fantasy and non-fantasy.


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## Ewolf20 (Dec 18, 2018)

Despite writing in the fantasy genre, I don't like most of the fantasy genre due to repeating cliches and uninspired worldbuilding. Considering how kinda unique-ish some of things i write in our, it's hard to see how to execute an idea without getting lost and not knowing what to write next. However, if I do have an idea i wanna work on, I just read up on stuff that's consistent enough.  If i'm doing a xenofiction story, i'm gonna read up on and research xenofiction. If i'm doing middle grade, I wanna read up on and research on middle grade. Sometimes I might try other genres I like and borrow apsects from them, i'll still largely read the genre i'm writing.


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