# Is writing inherently depressing?



## Annoyingkid (Jan 24, 2018)

It's a solitary, inactive, labour intensive activity with very slow rate of reward for the brain.

So I say yes.


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## Svrtnsse (Jan 24, 2018)

If that's how you view it, then yes, that kinda sounds depressing. However, it's not necessarily solitary, at least not for everyone (meaning, for me). I do a lot of writing out of the house, in pubs and cafes or just out on a park bench somewhere. I usually keep my headphones on to be left alone, but I've got people around me and often a smile and a nod is enough social interaction.

Inactive and labour intensive, yes. I sit still, and writing is a slow process for me, it takes a lot of time to get something done, and it can take a lot of effort.

Slow rate of reward I do not agree with, unless there's something implied in _rate of reward for the brain_ that I'm missing. For me it's something of a reward seeing the story come to life and take shape and figuring out where to go next, or just coming up with a clever way of wording something, or resolving a tricky situation in an elegant manner.
Mind you, this usually doesn't happen right away as I sit down to write, and it often takes a while to get there, but it will eventually get to that point.

I agree that writing can be depressing, but it doesn't have to be I don't agree that it's inherent.


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## CupofJoe (Jan 24, 2018)

I'd say No. 
Because I get to play out all the fantasies and whims of my mind and soul to see what will happen. 
And that is just COOL!
I'll agree that I have to write on my own, but I know more than a few writers that have a favourite seat in a bar or cafe at which they write. It also saves on the electricity and heating bills to do it away from home.
I wouldn't call the way I write labour intensive, but we probably have different definitions for that phrase. Yes it does take someone to do the writing but there isn't usually a lot of heavy lifting or physical stress involved [unless I'm doing it all wrong]. So I don't mind sitting and writing.
My fingers aren't as quick as my mind at getting the story written but that gives me time for second, third and more ideas to come tumbling out. And if I'm willing to give several hours to read a book that took someone several years to write, I don't mind the time I spend writing. Divide it by the number of readers and it is probably close to instantaneous... [Don't go trying to follow that logic - it work inside my head if nowhere else...]
On the other hand...
Trying for the x-nth time to get a scene or a line of dialogue to work on the page they way I feel it in my mind... Now that can get depressing. But that is why the gods gave us coffee. So we could take a break from writing and go and think about something else for a few minute.
And then there is this...
PHD Comics: Psych
That's what I find truly and deeply depressing about writing... When I sit down with all the hope and expectation I can muster and spend the day on [ahem] "research"...


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## Steerpike (Jan 24, 2018)

I don’t find it depressing at all. Quite the opposite. And I know some writers who struggle with depression who find it therapeutic.


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## Demesnedenoir (Jan 24, 2018)

No. I’m not giddy while writing, by any stretch, but a mild anxiety and depression will build if I’m not writing for a time.


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## Penpilot (Jan 24, 2018)

Svrtnsse said:


> Slow rate of reward I do not agree with, unless there's something implied in _rate of reward for the brain_ that I'm missing. For me it's something of a reward seeing the story come to life and take shape and figuring out where to go next, or just coming up with a clever way of wording something, or resolving a tricky situation in an elegant manner.
> Mind you, this usually doesn't happen right away as I sit down to write, and it often takes a while to get there, but it will eventually get to that point.
> 
> I agree that writing can be depressing, but it doesn't have to be I don't agree that it's inherent.



For me, this. 

Like most things I enjoy, the reward is in the act of doing. A story is a puzzle to be assembled. It stimulates my mind. 

Is it always fun and games, no. Sometimes it can be a struggle, but there's nothing like the reward of finding your way through the challenges. Because each challenge met, failed or overcome, makes me a slightly better writer. 

If I'm depressed, writing has nothing to do with it.


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## pmmg (Jan 24, 2018)

I may be inherently depressed, but writing does not make me that way. It is quite possibly an outlet. Where else to I get to turn on all the creative process and make something that always seems cool to me?

And yes, I find it solitary, inactive, labour intensive and with a slow rate of return, but compare to some alternatives... Is there any art form that is not these things? How long must I play my guitar before I able to create music? What is the rate of return on that. I've been at it for more than a few years and I still don't make any money with it. But I enjoy making the music. Or painting, how long before Picasso was making his famous works? I bet his rate of return was pretty slow as well. And I could go another route, give up a creative form, give my time and energy to a company, get a sure reward for my efforts, but at the end of many years, I will have nothing that I made myself, or that anyone will appreciate just a few years after I am gone. I'd rather have my own body of work to leave behind.


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## Nimue (Jan 24, 2018)

Writing makes me anxious about how crap my writing is, and not writing makes me depressed about how crap I am. 2/10 would not recommend my brain.


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## Tom (Jan 24, 2018)

I'd say writing is a mixed bag for me. On one hand, it's incredibly depressing when I don't have the motivation to write and have to sit there with ideas threatening to explode my brain. On the other hand, when I can write, it's relaxing (most of the time) and gratifying to see that I can actually be productive (even if what I'm producing is absolute shit).


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## Heliotrope (Jan 24, 2018)

Huh.... I can't say I've ever found it depressing. I find it frustrating, hard work, illuminating, humbling... but never depressing. For me it isn't lonely because I have a great group of partners to share it with. I work out a lot and get a ton of outdoor time, so the inactivity doesn't bother me. I find it restful. There is a slow rate of external reward, but I find it highly gratifying internally on a fairly regular basis.

Plus the stuff I write excites me. It makes me happy. It makes me hopeful and uplifted.

When I was young I used to write really depressing, sad, scary stuff. I thought it was good. My  mother said "writing depressing stuff is easy. Writing stuff that uplifts people is hard." She was right. Now I write stuff that brings me (and other people) joy. So no, it is never depressing.


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## skip.knox (Jan 24, 2018)

Annoyingkid said:


> It's a solitary, inactive, labour intensive activity with very slow rate of reward for the brain.
> 
> So I say yes.



These words speak of discouragement, even drudgery, but not depression. I tread carefully around that word.

But I'll take small issue with the slow rate of reward. If you're talking about publishing, then yeah. But I get rewarded every time I read back over earlier chapters (or stories) and think "well, that did not entirely suck."  Which is the highest form of self-praise I can manage.


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## Xitra_Blud (Jan 24, 2018)

No. Not for me. If it was depressing, I wouldn't do it. I find writing very rewarding in both a therapeutic sense and in way to spend time. I do have to ask, though, if it's a draining and laboring activity, that lacks reward for you, why do you do it?


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## Guy (Jan 24, 2018)

Xitra_Blud said:


> No. Not for me. If it was depressing, I wouldn't do it. I find writing very rewarding in both a therapeutic sense and in way to spend time. I do have to ask, though, if it's a draining and laboring activity, that lacks reward for you, why do you do it?


Ditto. 

I like the solitary nature of it. It may be physically inactive but it is tremendously mentally active, and I get a substantial sense of accomplishment when I get some writing done..


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## Chessie2 (Jan 24, 2018)

Guy said:


> Ditto.
> and I get a substantial sense of accomplishment when I get some writing done..


It's a total rush.


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## T.Allen.Smith (Jan 24, 2018)

If it’s depressing you’re not doing it the right way, or you’re not working on the right things. 

Either that or writing isn’t for you. There are plenty of creative outlets. I wouldn’t spend so much time doing something that depresses me. I’d find something that fulfills.


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## FifthView (Jan 24, 2018)

Writing fiction means being fine with the idea that the portion of your life spent doing it is dedicated to an imaginary reality. Think of putting down the pen or boxing the keyboard and spending that time exploring the real world, with real people, doing real things instead; now compare the two. Well sure, that comparison might lead to a feeling of depression, if you dwell on it. But then, if you dwell on that thought, you're spending your time in an imaginary world after all.


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## Devor (Jan 24, 2018)

I don't find it depressing, but I do recognize that many people write _because_ they are depressed.  It's also worth noting, writing like any art can take a lot of work, and when you do that kind of work ontop of a day job, or in lieu of something that makes money, that can be depressing.  But I don't think there's anything inherently depressing about writing.  I feel it can be exhilarating.


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## Michael K. Eidson (Jan 25, 2018)

I've been depressed to the point of attempting suicide. Writing helps me not to return to that dark place, but for a long time, I was too depressed to write--or do much of anything for that matter. I don't know how I kept my job, except that my boss was a very caring person. When I was home, I spent all my time in bed, never leaving the room except to go to work, and forcing myself to do that.

If writing depresses you, stop writing and find something uplifting to do. Go dancing. That was the activity that helped me the most to get out of my depression.


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## Annoyingkid (Jan 25, 2018)

skip.knox said:


> These words speak of discouragement, even drudgery, but not depression. I tread carefully around that word.
> 
> But I'll take small issue with the slow rate of reward. If you're talking about publishing, then yeah. But I get rewarded every time I read back over earlier chapters (or stories) and think "well, that did not entirely suck."  Which is the highest form of self-praise I can manage.



Not "publishing", but completion. Takes years to get that reward. Video games, television, movies, all provide instant fantasy and instant entertainment. Whereas I have to put in 2 days of work to write and illustrate a single page.  So I have alot of ideas I want to see later in the story, but I have to wait till I get there.

It's solitary. To those who disagree, if you're talking to someone else, are you writing? No. Socializing around the craft is not writing.



> If it’s depressing you’re not doing it the right way, or you’re not working on the right things.
> Either that or writing isn’t for you. There are plenty of creative outlets. I wouldn’t spend so much time doing something that depresses me. I’d find something that fulfills.





> If writing depresses you, stop writing and find something uplifting to do. Go dancing. That was the activity that helped me the most to get out of my depression.



 Telling a great story at the cost of getting depressed within reason is a perfectly fine sacrifice. Where did it come from that Happiness is the state we should all seek at the cost of everything else and that we should  all try to live in a one season world? Commercials and corporations who want to convince us that their product is the key to happiness. Suffering is key to the human condition. It builds character and it's only in contrast with suffering that pleasures have any meaning. I fundamentally disagree that depression is something we have to avoid experiencing like the plague. It's that kind of thinking that has led to the absurd overprescription of anti depressants. I'd rather accept my inner darkness than run away from it all the time with short term, immediate pleasures. I'll be free to choose them when the work is done and I'll appreciate it all the more after having gone through the hard work.



> Xitra_Blud said: ↑
> No. Not for me. If it was depressing, I wouldn't do it. I find writing very rewarding in both a therapeutic sense and in way to spend time. I do have to ask, though, if it's a draining and laboring activity, that lacks reward for you, why do you do it?



What's the alternative? Having a story in one's mind and keeping it locked in there for a lifetime? Is that really any better?


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## Penpilot (Jan 25, 2018)

Annoyingkid said:


> What's the alternative? Having a story in one's mind and keeping it locked in there for a lifetime? Is that really any better?



This depends on the person and what they want out of life.

I've told this a few times before, but I think it applies here. I heard an interview with Neil Gaiman once. He told how some come up to him and say they have all these ideas, all these stories they want to tell, but they can't seem to find the time to write them, and they feel guilty about it.

Gaiman tells them to not feel guilty. Just because they have ideas doesn't mean they're obligated to write them out.

Cause honestly, everyone has ideas, everyone. IMHO, it's not something unique to those who like to create. The ones who create are just the ones who choose to do something with them.

There's a limited amount of time we each have on this world, and we each choose how we spend our time. Some choose to write, others choose not to because there are other things they'd rather do at the moment. Neither is a right choice. It's just a choice.

For me, the reward isn't just in the finishing. It's in the act of doing. I'm rewarded each and every time I sit down to write. I may also get punished, but hey, it' comes with the territory. Just like many things, it's the journey not the destination that counts. The act of writing lets me learn about myself, helps me explore ideas, and helps me understand where I stand on certain things.

Is writing depressing? For me no. This is from a person who gets bluesy when winter rolls around. But I also believe that people find what they seek. 



Annoyingkid said:


> It's solitary. To those who disagree, if you're talking to someone else, are you writing?



No, but if I'm talking to someone about my story and how to deal with and fix certain things, I consider that writing. I may not be adding to its word count, but I'm advancing my story and building onto it ever bit as much as if I were at the keyboard typing. 

As for it being solitary, if I don't want that, I can create myself a friend on the page.


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## Annoyingkid (Jan 25, 2018)

Penpilot said:


> This depends on the person and what they want out of life.
> 
> I've told this a few times before, but I think it applies here. I heard an interview with Neil Gaiman once. He told how some come up to him and say they have all these ideas, all these stories they want to tell, but they can't seem to find the time to write them, and they feel guilty about it.
> 
> ...



The question is if someone can hold an untold story in their mind for their entire life without it irritating them. Is one able to forget the story enough to be at peace with it never being released. from the mind. As for guilt, you're not answerable to anyone besides yourself. But if one feels guilty in that way, then that's the way it is. Being told that there's no reason to feel it is not going to make the person not feel it. There is no "You shouldn't feel guilty for not writing your ideas". You do or you don't. 



> No, but if I'm talking to someone about my story and how to deal with and fix certain things, I consider that writing. I may not be adding to its word count, but I'm advancing my story and building onto it ever bit as much as if I were at the keyboard typing.



And when those times come it's great. But that's a very, very small minority of the time isn't it. 



> As for it being solitary, if I don't want that, I can create myself a friend on the page.



I'm sure we'd all like to think of our characters as our friends, but at the end of the day, they and we have a job to do.


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## Ban (Jan 25, 2018)

I think people with depressive tendencies just tend to flock to writing. People who feel unheard have a greater desire to make themselves feel heard, even if it is just to themselves. Writing just happens to be a creative medium accesible to everyone with even just a pen and paper. You don't need talent or skill to start writing, so everyone can jump in and jot down their raw emotion anyway they'd like. The actual act of writing is remedying I believe.


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## Demesnedenoir (Jan 25, 2018)

Solitary isn’t depressing. And for me, I can write with other people in the room... hello wife and daughters... although, I get accused of being elsewhere,  a legit complaint, heh heh. I get more done without people around, but I can still get stuff done. I’m a child of mountains, forests, plains, and rivers, not concrete and crowds.

I’m not saying I hate people, I’m just happier when they’re not around. Much like mosquitoes. No, wait. I hate mosquitoes.


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## Guy (Jan 25, 2018)

Annoyingkid said:


> Not "publishing", but completion. Takes years to get that reward. Video games, television, movies, all provide instant fantasy and instant entertainment. Whereas I have to put in 2 days of work to write and illustrate a single page.  So I have alot of ideas I want to see later in the story, but I have to wait till I get there.


I'm pretty pleased with myself when I can get a couple of paragraphs done the way I want them.


> It's solitary. To those who disagree, if you're talking to someone else, are you writing? No. Socializing around the craft is not writing.


I rather enjoy the solitary nature of it.


> Telling a great story at the cost of getting depressed within reason is a perfectly fine sacrifice. Where did it come from that Happiness is the state we should all seek at the cost of everything else and that we should  all try to live in a one season world? Commercials and corporations who want to convince us that their product is the key to happiness. Suffering is key to the human condition. It builds character and it's only in contrast with suffering that pleasures have any meaning. I fundamentally disagree that depression is something we have to avoid experiencing like the plague.


Avoid it like the plague? No, some depression is inevitable, but neither should we seek it out. I get the impression that you don't get a good deal of satisfaction from writing. You seem to get a lot of frustration from it. I think what others are saying is if a completely voluntary activity causes you a lot of frustration and depression and little or no satisfaction, there's no point in doing it.


> I'd rather accept my inner darkness than run away from it all the time with short term, immediate pleasures. I'll be free to choose them when the work is done and I'll appreciate it all the more after having gone through the hard work.


But one of your complaints about writing is that there is no immediate pleasure from it and it takes too long to get any sense of reward.


> What's the alternative? Having a story in one's mind and keeping it locked in there for a lifetime? Is that really any better?


Perhaps using a different medium, one that grants you the sense of reward you crave.


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## Mythopoet (Jan 25, 2018)

No. No activity is _inherently_ depressing. That would mean that causing depression is part of the very nature of writing, which obviously isn't the case. There are so many people who find great joy and satisfaction in their writing.

That said, I completely sympathize with your feelings. I also get depressed because writing takes so much work and it doesn't come easily to me as it does to others. I sometimes get very jealous of the people who talk about how wonderful it is to just sit down and make stuff up. Well, that's not how it works for me. My mind is always thinking creatively and inventing stories and bits of world no matter what I'm doing. But then to sit down and put it all together in words is a major and often unpleasant effort. It's not that I don't want to do it. I desperately want to. And I often feel like a failure because I find it so difficult. I feel like it shouldn't be difficult and thus that there's something wrong with me. And yes, that makes writing tend to be a depressing activity for me.


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## Nimue (Jan 25, 2018)

“If writing depresses you, just stop doing it.”

The act of writing itself, when it’s going well, no.  If not unqualified happiness, there is something feverish, exultant, self-forgetting in it.  And—it still feels conceited to say—I do genuinely enjoy re-reading my own writing sometimes, recapturing whatever emotions were embedded there.  But when you surround those moments with judgement, criticism, a futile-seeming struggle with the craft, is it any wonder that they become poisoned?  I love stories, I love the texture of words, and I think I’m a great daydreamer—none of that means I can write.  

Is it really so hard to understand that there is a dark side to a bright coin: to the joy of creation, the fear of having it destroyed by time and reality, the dread of having a dream for all your life that is still as distant as it ever was, if not more, because the mirage has faded?  That something so precious and ephemeral might become the breeding ground for inner demons?  No, I don’t believe I’m naturally depressed, because I know people who are and they have much more to worry about than putting words on a page.  I’m plagued by realism, and the rootless perfectionism that, out of practicality, has no place in my personal or professional life. Instead it comes home to roost on the thing closest to my heart.

Is this really a mystery?  Have you never felt it?  Then, more than anything else, I am envious.


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## Michael K. Eidson (Jan 25, 2018)

Annoyingkid said:


> Telling a great story at the cost of getting depressed within reason is a perfectly fine sacrifice.



The key words here being "within reason." If you are considering suicide, then it has gone too far and you should seek help.



> Where did it come from that Happiness is the state we should all seek at the cost of everything else and that we should all try to live in a one season world?



That's not where I'm coming from. I thing Existence is the minimum state we should all seek. At the cost of everything else? I'm not even sure about that. A one-season world? Yeah, right.

If you take everything to an extreme, I don't see it as healthy or productive.



> Suffering is key to the human condition. It builds character and it's only in contrast with suffering that pleasures have any meaning.



I don't know that suffering is any more key to the human condition than pleasure. Without pleasure, how do you give meaning to suffering?



> I fundamentally disagree that depression is something we have to avoid experiencing like the plague. It's that kind of thinking that has led to the absurd overprescription of anti depressants.



It seems that doctors over-prescribe, but in my case, I needed help, and they gave me the help. How many people need the help? Are they to be turned away because others who don't need the help or refuse to accept it clamor about doctors over-prescribing? The thing that doesn't often happen is for the sick individual to get better. I was told I'd be on Prozac for the rest of my life, and I was on it for several years. But I felt that taking an antidepressant contributed to my feeling depressed, so I determined I'd wean myself off it, and I did. I've been off it now for over a decade.



> I'd rather accept my inner darkness than run away from it all the time with short term, immediate pleasures. I'll be free to choose them when the work is done and I'll appreciate it all the more after having gone through the hard work.



If you have a serious problem with depression, you need to seek help. If it's not that serious, if you're observing that something you feel compelled to do isn't providing short-term happiness, and you're fine with that, well, okay, I think we all get it now, but we're telling you that for many of us, we don't respond the same way. It is possible to feel a high from even short writing sessions, and to have these highs frequently. Many of us do. It is possible to feel a high from developing a character, from planning a scene, from writing an exquisite sentence, from ruminating over a difficult plot point, from talking to others about our craft. Many of us do. The answer to the question of whether writing is inherently depressing? It obviously isn't _inherently_ depressing for everyone, so, no. If it's depressing for you and you don't mind that feeling, as long as you're not depressed to the point of considering suicide, then congratulate yourself for being in the company of many other great writers who wrote while depressed, and turned out some perfectly great novels. Some of these authors took their own lives, and that's where it went too far. As long as you avoid that, then you're in great company. Writers 'at greater risk of depression', survey finds


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## Peat (Jan 25, 2018)

Hmm. Probably not. At least not for me. Certainly there are ways to go about writing which can help lead there - secluded obsessing over your failures, perceived or otherwise, is rarely healthy - but I don't think most people do. And between micro fiction and talking to other people about writing, I find a fair degree of quick gratification and associated socialising. I have some fairly strong levels of hatred towards writing at times, but it doesn't depress me.

But!

Everyone's different, doing different things... it doesn't fall to me to tell someone that an activity isn't depressing for them. I'd tell them to question it, because the likelihood is something deeper is under it and the importance of success or failure in one particular sphere is only a symptom, but I can't say anything with certainty other than this:

Get it treated. That doesn't necessarily mean pills. But there's more than enough hard times and suffering in life for anyone to go through without needing to sit in the worst of them.


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## Heliotrope (Jan 25, 2018)

Annoyingkid said:


> depressed within reason



Ok. This bothers me. I'll come out and address it.

AnnoyingKid... Depression is a very serious, life threatening mental illness. What you are talking about is not depression. What you are talking about is "writing is hard work and I don't like it sometimes." That is not depression. There is no such thing as "depression within reason"... sorry. Just no.

There are people who legitimately struggle with depression as a real mental illness every day. Writing does not "cause" it. Major traumatic events can cause it. PTSD can cause it. Serious brain injury can cause it, or a person simply having a different chemical makeup in their brain can cause it. Writing does not cause it. I don't care how lonely or hard it is.

You are talking about how the world touts "happiness" as the only emotion and how it is not okay to experience other emotions. I get that and I think that is probably true... but as a result of that mindset I see a lot of people who just feel "sad" or "frustrated" or "overwhelmed" telling everyone they are "depressed" like it is some sort of badge of honour. Like it is some sort of contest to be the most depressed because it will make you the most "real".

That is an equally disturbing mindset. Again, feeling real human emotions when doing a task that is hard (like frustration, fear, sadness, anger, resentment, or otherwise) is not depression.

If you _actually _have real, clinical depression, and you are finding that writing is making it worse. Please stop. Please find another outlet. This is serious.

If you are just experiencing normal human emotions because writing is *gasp* hard. Than fine. We have all been there. Don't call it depression.


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## skip.knox (Jan 25, 2018)

I can't speak to what others feel. I previously drew a distinction between being discouraged and being depressed, for the reasons others have mentioned--depression is a clinical condition. I agree with others that writing doesn't cause depression.

I do want to reiterate that there is room for many small joys in the process of writing. Again as others have said, even completing a paragraph--certainly completing a scene to satisfaction--is cause for a smile. That said, getting all the way to done is huge. I encourage Annoying Kid to aim for that with resolve and persistence.

I spent years on _Goblins at the Gates_. Wrote a couple hundred thousand words and still didn't have a story. It was profoundly discouraging and I knew why: because so long as it was incomplete, I was not a writer. I was just a guy who wrote stuff, as I had been doing for decades.

One day, walking my dog, a notion drifted by. It was completely unrelated to anything, but I knew at once it was a short story, not a novel. So I decided I was going to write that thing and send it to a magazine until it got published. There are enough online mags around, your odds of getting published are fairly high.

Getting that short story written was huge. Actually sending it to magazines was even bigger, psychologically. It's that step when you play your song for someone else, when you turn the painting around for other eyes. You're sending your kid out the door. Then came acceptance (with qualifiers; I had to do some editing). No payment--I've not scaled that wall yet--but it was acceptance.

Then, and only then, was I done. That moment was revelatory. Only once I've published is a story finished. I knew I was done because some weeks or months later I read the thing, online. I saw places that could be improved, even a place that made me wince ... I was ok with it. The thing was done. I was done with it. I could acknowledge its failings and strengths without fretting.

Even more important, I knew what done looks like, feels like. Before, it was like running a race in which I did not know the location of the finish line, except that it was over there somewhere. I didn't know how to pace or even if I was running the wrong direction. It was dispiriting. But once I'd finished _"The Roadmaster"_ I had my bearings. I wrote another short story and two novelettes and *still* the novel wasn't finished ... and I was ok with it. I knew I would finish it, because I knew what "finish" meant. And I did finish it, at long weary last. And I'm hard at work at the next novel.

Along the way, an odd thing happened. I can't say exactly when or how, but it's real. The discouragement that had dogged me for so long transformed into something else:  determination. Writing is still lonely, mostly thankless (thanking oneself is pretty empty, but is often all I've got), tedious, unexpectedly and all too briefly joyous, and hard on the body and on the spirit. It's also what I do, so there you go.

I hate writing, but I love having written.
 --- Dorothy Parker
It just gets truer every day.


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## Nimue (Jan 25, 2018)

Heliotrope said:


> If you are just experiencing normal human emotions because writing is *gasp* hard. Than fine. We have all been there. Don't call it depression.


Well, now I feel like shit.  I’m sorry if my posts have contributed to this misappropriation, I did use “depression” in the flip, catch-all way that is unfortunately common, and that’s all the worse because my twin sister has major depressive disorder and PTSD. My feelings are jack shit compared to what she struggles with on a daily basis.  You’re entirely correct; it’s not comparable, and I apologize.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Jan 25, 2018)

To me, writing is...

hard, frustrating, time-consuming, lonely... 

...but never depressing. 

i just get a rush out of seeing my ideas slowly bloom that makes everything worth it.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Jan 25, 2018)

Heliotrope said:


> Ok. This bothers me. I'll come out and address it.
> 
> AnnoyingKid... Depression is a very serious, life threatening mental illness. What you are talking about is not depression. What you are talking about is "writing is hard work and I don't like it sometimes." That is not depression. There is no such thing as "depression within reason"... sorry. Just no.
> 
> ...



Also, yes, this. As someone who suffers from multiple mental illnesses, I can say that I agree.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Jan 25, 2018)

Nimue said:


> Well, now I feel like shit.  I’m sorry if my posts have contributed to this misappropriation, I did use “depression” in the flip, catch-all way that is unfortunately common, and that’s all the worse because my twin sister has major depressive disorder and PTSD. My feelings are jack shit compared to what she struggles with on a daily basis.  You’re entirely correct; it’s not comparable, and I apologize.



It's okay Nimue. Sometimes we are sloppy with our words and can inadvertently cause harm, but in that case we all have to simply recognize that fact and be more careful in the future. We understand, and we've all done similar things.


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## Mythopoet (Jan 25, 2018)

Heliotrope said:


> Ok. This bothers me. I'll come out and address it.
> 
> AnnoyingKid... Depression is a very serious, life threatening mental illness. What you are talking about is not depression. What you are talking about is "writing is hard work and I don't like it sometimes." That is not depression. There is no such thing as "depression within reason"... sorry. Just no.



Depression comes in many, many forms. And it's not for you to say that someone doesn't experience it. I suffer from depression and take medication for it, but I have never had an urge to take my life. My depression makes it hard for me to function in many ways everyday, but it has never been life threatening. Every person who experiences depression does so in different ways. 

I'm sure there are many people out there who exaggerate what they are feeling into depression. However, the idea of some stranger on the internet who knows nothing about someone telling them that what they are experiencing isn't depression because it doesn't fit their preconceived notions is far more disturbing to me. NEVER do that. Never tell someone they don't have depression unless you are a qualified medical professional who has all the necessary information about the person's life to make an accurate diagnosis.


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## Demesnedenoir (Jan 25, 2018)

G’grief this conversation got depressing fast.


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## Nomadica (Jan 25, 2018)

It doesn't have to be lonely but If you have a very social job that demands that you focus on other people all day and doesn't allow you to zone in then sitting down in a quiet place at the park and zoning in to your own world to write feels as good as taking a bath after coming home all grimy from a dirty laborious job


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## pmmg (Jan 25, 2018)

I cannot speak to depression. It may be that was not exactly the right word to use, and maybe discouraged, or daunting or something else would have been a better choice. Could be depression is the right word, and I could not know. If you are truly feeling depression I think you should pause and consider what needs to be done about that. We all feel depressed at some time or another, for some it is more serious.

The OP appears to me to be talking about dealing with feelings about the amount of work and time it takes to produce something that has very little reward along the way. I feel that at times. Why am I doing this? No one seems to care, and I am giving up a lot of my time to it. Heck, I don't even know if its really any good?

For me, when I started, all I had was novels in me and they took a long time to write, needed a lot of fixing when they were done, few people would read them and the path to feedback was unhelpfully slow. I moved into short stories for a while to get a faster path and feedback. I've moved back into novels and guess what, they went back to being slow. All I can say is, if you want a faster path to rewards, you need to write stuff that can be produced faster, such as short stories, or contest entries. Believe me, when you win your first contest, or get that first one published, you wont be feeling it was not worth it. But you must understand, it takes a long time to develop the craft, and while you will see your own progression along the way, it will be some time before others are really letting you know it. This is true in any endeavor though. Before one can play a piano, they have to hit a lot of wrong and off timed notes. We don't see that when they are on stage, but they did.

I read once that CS Lewis did not enjoy writing the Screwtape letters. His reason being that it took him to a dark place, where his thoughts were always focused on bad stuff, and how everything could be twisted around. So, the writing of it kept him in a dark place and he did not enjoy it. I have felt this too. I've written things meant to be dark and characters with few or no redeeming qualities, and yes, you do have to drink it in a little and it can be wearing. I may have a better tolerance for it than Mr. Lewis (I would not know), but I can understand how he came to feel that way. Maybe others have felt the same.

The feeling that I may have a story never told inside of me has never plagued me. I do wonder if I will ever get to finish, because of the amount of time that is passing, but once I had completed a few things, I picked up the feeling that I could make it happen, and I did not have to worry for what I could not do, but rather, what would I do now that I knew I could. I hope you get that feeling too.

I cant do it all, but I do know I have a lot more stories in me. Some may not ever see the light of day, I'll try to pick the best ones and get those out.


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## TheKillerBs (Jan 25, 2018)

Mythopoet said:


> Depression comes in many, many forms. And it's not for you to say that someone doesn't experience it. I suffer from depression and take medication for it, but I have never had an urge to take my life. My depression makes it hard for me to function in many ways everyday, but it has never been life threatening. Every person who experiences depression does so in different ways.
> 
> I'm sure there are many people out there who exaggerate what they are feeling into depression. However, the idea of some stranger on the internet who knows nothing about someone telling them that what they are experiencing isn't depression because it doesn't fit their preconceived notions is far more disturbing to me. NEVER do that. Never tell someone they don't have depression unless you are a qualified medical professional who has all the necessary information about the person's life to make an accurate diagnosis.


But Helio didn’t say AK doesn’t have depression. She spoke in conditionals.


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## Chessie2 (Jan 25, 2018)

Writing is solitary, yes. But depressing? No way. It's a lot of fun making up stories about imaginary people and sharing them with others.


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## Chessie2 (Jan 25, 2018)

Heliotrope said:


> Ok. This bothers me. I'll come out and address it.
> 
> AnnoyingKid... Depression is a very serious, life threatening mental illness. What you are talking about is not depression. What you are talking about is "writing is hard work and I don't like it sometimes." That is not depression. There is no such thing as "depression within reason"... sorry. Just no.
> 
> ...


As someone who has seen my spouse suffer with major depression over the past year, I couldn't agree with this more.


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## T.Allen.Smith (Jan 25, 2018)

This conversation is focused more on depression than it is and n the actual process of writing. 

Moving to Chit Chat.


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## Michael K. Eidson (Jan 25, 2018)

Heliotrope said:


> AnnoyingKid... Depression is a very serious, life threatening mental illness. What you are talking about is not depression. What you are talking about is "writing is hard work and I don't like it sometimes." That is not depression. There is no such thing as "depression within reason"... sorry. Just no.



I feel the same way you do, Heliotrope, about almost everything you said, but as Mythopoet said, telling someone they don't have depression is not a good thing. I know you didn't come right out and say, AK, you aren't depressed. But the above quote comes close.

I have experienced depression at many levels, except the most rock bottom one where I would have made sure my suicide attempt had no possibility of failure. My depression was diagnosed as being due to a chemical reaction in the brain, as you mentioned. It happens. It's nothing to be ashamed of. And it's pretty damn hard to treat it, because how do you reverse a chemical reaction in the brain? Thank goodness they didn't try electrocuting my brain like they tried with some of the people in the institution I inhabited for a time. When I was in that institution, I saw people with many forms of depression and other mental conditions. I really feel for bipolar people now, and am so grateful I don't have that condition.

Sitting in group therapy sessions, you come to realize how _different_ people are. Depression raises its head for a variety of reasons. And once it sets in on a person, it can be exacerbated by many different situations in a person's life. The difficulty of writing might not be a cause (spoken as though anyone knows what all the causes are) of depression, but it can certainly make it worse for a person struggling with depression. Having one's feelings invalidated by telling them what they are experiencing isn't depression can deepen their depression.

"Depression within reason..." could exist if we aren't discussing _clinical_ depression. Many people use the term depression when talking about feelings of sadness or discouragement. It's easy to say that's not depression, and that's the first thought that came to my mind too. But there might be real depression there. When someone talks about depression and the things that depress them, they aren't necessarily talking about the root cause of their depression. I think it better to tread with caution when discussing the subject with someone who has expressed any feelings of depression, no matter the context. In cases like this, I think it safer to assume the worst, and let the person clarify their feelings through further discussion.

You never know when someone is making a cry for help. Asking for help for depression is not easy for those who have it. I know I tried many ways to ask for help before I got it, and the only way I got it was to try to take my own life.


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## Heliotrope (Jan 25, 2018)

I have to stand by my post.

The OP asked "Is writing inherently depressing."

The answer is no. Depression comes from a lot of things, for a lot of reasons. Sitting down and writing a novel is not of them. It may exasperate the problem, in which case, stop. But it is not inherently depressing.



Annoyingkid said:


> Telling a great story at the cost of getting depressed within reason is a perfectly fine sacrifice.



No. There is never a good reason to make depression worse. If you are depressed and writing makes it worse. Don't do it. Please. Stop.



Annoyingkid said:


> Where did it come from that Happiness is the state we should all seek at the cost of everything else and that we should all try to live in a one season world? Commercials and corporations who want to convince us that their product is the key to happiness. Suffering is key to the human condition. It builds character and it's only in contrast with suffering that pleasures have any meaning. I fundamentally disagree that depression is something we have to avoid experiencing like the plague. It's that kind of thinking that has led to the absurd overprescription of anti depressants. I'd rather accept my inner darkness than run away from it all the time with short term, immediate pleasures. I'll be free to choose them when the work is done and I'll appreciate it all the more after having gone through the hard work.



What AK is describing here is not depression. AK is talking about human emotions, yes. But if you are clinically depressed "accepting your inner darkness" is not a wise choice.

When it comes to normal human emotions, by all means, yes! Feel pain, fear, anger, frustration. Yes, this makes you a better human being. Yes, it makes the good moments better. Yes, you come out of if appreciating all the hard work you have done. But this is not how depression works. Depression is not something you just "come out of" and think "Oh, well, glad I went through that. Now I'm a better person."

People struggle for years, or a lifetime. It comes back, over and over again. Most people I know who suffer from depression don't think "Oh, I'm glad I have these feelings. I should be allowed to indulge in them because they make me a better person."

No. Pretty much all the people I know who have depression think "This sucks. Why am I like this? I am struggling with getting through basic aspects of life. I would do anything to feel "normal" emotions."

I don't know if AK has depression or not. Maybe he/she does. It which case, as I said, if writing is making it worse, please stop. Please get some help.

Writing is not inherently depressing, though. And, if AK is suffering from real depression, I don't want to give him/her the idea that it is okay to continue suffering by writing.



Annoyingkid said:


> Suffering is key to the human condition. It builds character and it's only in contrast with suffering that pleasures have any meaning. I fundamentally disagree that depression is something we have to avoid experiencing like the plague.



Yes. Feeling the range of human emotions is key to the human condition. Yes, it builds character.

But depression is different than that. Depression is more. Depression is not something people "want" to feel. Suggesting that is the case is not okay.

At any rate, this is the last thing I want to be discussing on a writers forum, so I'm out.


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## Michael K. Eidson (Jan 25, 2018)

I feel like Heliotrope didn't listen to a word I said in my last post. That makes me depressed. Or am I just discouraged? Does anyone ******* care?


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## Devor (Jan 25, 2018)

*Let's try to keep it calm and not get personal, everyone.  Depression is a serious subject, and people who suffer from it deal with it differently.  Please try not to make assumptions about what other people might or might not be going through.*


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## valiant12 (Jan 26, 2018)

I don't  think there is a coralation between depresion and writing.
Writing and other activities tend to atract smart people.  People with higher iq are more predispose to mental disorders like anxieety disorder.


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## Xitra_Blud (Jan 26, 2018)

Annoyingkid said:


> What's the alternative? Having a story in one's mind and keeping it locked in there for a lifetime? Is that really any better?



If writing your ideas makes you depressed then, yes, I would say so. While it's true that suffering is a part of the human condition, it is a thing that comes with nature. People in your life will die, sometimes you will fail, you will lose your best friends, your gonna stub you toe on the wall--yes, we deal with pain and sadness in life, however, these are things that already come with living.

What is the sense in actively seeking depression? How does it build character? I am not against reading a piece of work that may be sad or end tragically. Personally, I enjoy tragic works myself, however, the benefit of reading such works opens the mind and challenges views. It's the kind of thing that makes you consider your ideologies or the way you look at humanity. Actively going out and seeking pain in life sounds masochistic. What do you gain from it? How? And again, devoting your life to something that does nothing for you but make you hurt because it "builds character" is a philosophy you will have to explain. You build character by making yourself hurt? I would say an 80 year old man built character through his life, not just because of the horrors he's experienced just from living, but also the joys he experienced as well such as love, success (doesn't have to be big), care, even just getting his first car. In each of these experiences, good or bad, he's learned something. Right? At the end of the day, it's not what you force yourself through, but it's how you deal with what will inevitably come your way.

The way I see it, yes, we should accept that suffering and pain is inevitable as living creatures, however, there is no reason to actively seek it. Sadness is a part of the human experience, but so is happiness.


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## Demesnedenoir (Jan 26, 2018)

Something being depressing is not the same as causing clinical depression. Lots of things can be depressing without ever touching on clinical depression.


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## Feith (Jan 26, 2018)

Well, I won't pretend to know anything about depression, but I'd say that writing can certainly be stressful and bittersweet. And there are times where a writer just can't stand their own story any more (been binge-writing, the story isn't going the way they'd hoped, slammed into a giant wall of writer's block, etc). So maybe it can be a bit depressing at times. It's sort of a trick question though, since it depends on the kind of story being written and the person writing it. But generally, I'd categorize "writing" under the "bittersweet" category, not "depressing".


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## FifthView (Jan 26, 2018)

Demesnedenoir said:


> Something being depressing is not the same as causing clinical depression. Lots of things can be depressing without ever touching on clinical depression.



Our clunky language is wonderful.


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## Peat (Jan 27, 2018)

Apologies if this is an unwanted call-back but -

Language, as noted, is crude, and our control of it sometimes even cruder; someone talking about depression but not really seeming to be talking about Depression (change of emphasis deliberate) can sometimes be simple mis-expression rather than mis-identification.

Also, for various reasons, those suffering from Depression can sometimes try to avoid diagnosis, treatment, or admitting how bad the problem is. 

As such, I try to tread with the step of a ballet dancing angel around such subjects. That mis-diagnosis can turn a small problem into a bigger one does not help.


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## FifthView (Jan 27, 2018)

Demesnedenoir said:


> Something being depressing is not the same as causing clinical depression. Lots of things can be depressing without ever touching on clinical depression.



The odd thing about this is...my own experience, which is also muddled. I do suffer frequent bouts of _depressing_ events and situations, but I don't know for certain, with any given event or situation, whether there is some underlying issue—capital "D" depression is one possibility—and these occurrences merely trigger a somewhat more conscious awareness of that underlying issue.

In other words, when something is depressing, does it or can it lead to clinical depression—perhaps as a cumulative effect, with many of these events in a shortish time frame or else recurring with regularity over a longer time frame—or do I already suffer from some other negative condition that is triggered by those depressing events?

I suspect that the answer for me personally is more of the latter than the former, although I wonder whether these events might conspire, in cumulative fashion, to turn some lesser negative state into clinical depression, over time, if I'm too often experiencing them without resolution.

I will add that I think there are different sorts of initial-condition negative states that might be triggered by depressing events, beyond true clinical depression:  generalized frustration, repression, insecurity, fear, being in a new or odd situation, etc.  So sometimes these depressing events or situations are experienced as being "depressing" when they are merely triggering those other preexisting non-Depression negative states.

That said, a callback to the questions raised by our clunky language: the cumulative effect of having unresolved issues constantly triggered might well mean that, sometimes, "depressing" events and situations can actually lead to clinical depression. I.e., they do depress; the verb might be accurate for describing their effect, in some situation.

But a more revealing bit of my personal experience: I have wondered whether I do suffer from clinical depression but merely repress it, avoid resolving it, and generally mask it under the headers of "generalized frustration, repression, insecurity, fear, being in a new or odd situation,"

Nonetheless, the language is interesting, and not everyone's experience will be the same.


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## gia (Jan 27, 2018)

Annoyingkid said:


> Suffering is key to the human condition


In my world, Love is the key to the human condition. 

As far as the emotional state that comes with writing...the fundamental nature of the universe is creating. When I am creating/writing I am experiencing myself as a divine creator. And that is the emotion of joy. 

I know people who, instead of lifting in joy when they begin to create, spiral downward into a dark abyss. That is the sign of a wounded past that needs healing before moving forward. Something to write about! Yay!


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## Ban (Aug 11, 2018)

For once, and only once, I will participate in the necromancy of threads. I found this thread again, and I really want to respond to it.

Chronic depression is something that is a part of both sides of my family, and has led to a great number of substance abuses, and one highly impactful suicide. I have had my own experiences with depression, numerous times, but on its connection to writing I can say only one thing: nothing improves my state of mind better than writing. To me, writing may be an activity I am drawn to due to my faulty mind, but it has never accelerated my depressive thoughts. If anything, it is a release I am grateful to have discovered in a time when I needed it most.

And now the dead may rest again.


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