# Can we please retire the Katana...



## Miskatonic

to the cliche hall of fame?

It's long past due.


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## Philip Overby

Maybe retire characters who are not Japanese randomly carrying katana while wearing a trenchcoat?


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## Russ

I am not sure about retirement, but a long vacation is surely overdue.


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## BWFoster78

As long as your retirement doesn't apply to existing characters; Leonardo wouldn't be the same without his.


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## Miskatonic

Philip Overby said:


> Maybe retire characters who are not Japanese randomly carrying katana while wearing a trenchcoat?



Don't forget with spiky hair!


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## Miskatonic

BWFoster78 said:


> As long as your retirement doesn't apply to existing characters; Leonardo wouldn't be the same without his.



A grandfather clause will apply.


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## wordwalker

I'd rather see one really great anti-katana moment, some instant-classic movie scene where the Katana Kid slashes a guy *in armor* and realizes that's the wrong place for a light weapon, followed by a friend with a good old western "crowbar sword" elbowing him aside to do the job right.

A guy can dream...


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## Philster401

Hey watchout your pulling the threads which are the basis of anime,


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## Tom

Yeah! Longswords, greatswords, claymores, short swords, broadswords, sabers, and rapiers! There are so many great weapons the western world has to offer. Let's give them a chance to take the spotlight!


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## SeverinR

wordwalker said:


> I'd rather see one really great anti-katana moment, some instant-classic movie scene where the Katana Kid slashes a guy *in armor* and realizes that's the wrong place for a light weapon, followed by a friend with a good old western "crowbar sword" elbowing him aside to do the job right.
> 
> A guy can dream...


Be kind of like the 'Indiana Jones' moment when he shoots the swordsman...or when he grabs for his gun and its not there.  



Tom Nimenai said:


> Yeah! Longswords, greatswords, claymores, short swords, broadswords, sabers, and rapiers! There are so many great weapons the western world has to offer. Let's give them a chance to take the spotlight!


Isn't the generic fantasy long sword as tired as the katana? It's the standard issue weapon in the arsenal of fantasy. Only the great warriors have a bastard or two handed sword.  I guess in LOTR they have short swords, because they were short people.


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## Garren Jacobsen

I want more firearms dangit. Give me a fantasy western/Clancy-esque thriller. Rainbow Six vs Death Eaters.


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## Reaver

The katana is a cool weapon given the right circumstance but for my money I'd go with the naginata. My character in Legendary Sidekick's awesome Flat Earth game uses both ancient weapons but favors the naginata.

My avatar is from that game and in it he is wielding the famed weapon.

By the way, my avatar and all the amazing artwork in Flat Earth is by the one and only Legendary Sidekick.


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## Tom

SeverinR said:


> Isn't the generic fantasy long sword as tired as the katana? It's the standard issue weapon in the arsenal of fantasy. Only the great warriors have a bastard or two handed sword.  I guess in LOTR they have short swords, because they were short people.



Longsword is just another name for a two-handed sword, actually. I don't really see a lot of them--most everyone tends to go for a bastard sword when arming their characters, because it has more versatility.

I'd like to see more Viking weapons, personally--the one-handed sword, the seax knife, etc...


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## Miskatonic

SeverinR said:


> Be kind of like the 'Indiana Jones' moment when he shoots the swordsman...or when he grabs for his gun and its not there.
> 
> 
> Isn't the generic fantasy long sword as tired as the katana? It's the standard issue weapon in the arsenal of fantasy. Only the great warriors have a bastard or two handed sword.  I guess in LOTR they have short swords, because they were short people.



That's why one of the main characters of my story uses gauntlets first and foremost.  Sword as a backup.


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## Ophiucha

On the mention of the naginata, I'd love to see more pole and spear-type weapons in fantasy. They were more common than swords at many points (and places) in history, there's a ton of variety in their design, they're cheaper, women were often more capable of using them (good if you're writing about a female warrior), and they're just pretty cool.


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## Russ

Tom Nimenai said:


> Longsword is just another name for a two-handed sword,



Western sword nomenclature is an endless swamp.


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## Feo Takahari

Are bokken still allowed? They seem more plausible than fencing sabers as something you could actually kill monsters with.


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## Tom

Fencing sabers are actually pretty badass--don't underestimate them. Designed for both stabbing and slashing, they're often utilized with an aggressive fighting style that involves diving, leaping, and lots of bladework. A strong saber cut to the shoulder can easily shatter your collarbone! I can see hunting small, light, fast monsters with them.


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## T.Allen.Smith

Brian Scott Allen said:


> I want more firearms dangit. Give me a fantasy western/Clancy-esque thriller. Rainbow Six vs Death Eaters.


No six-shooters yet...but I'm writing a novel with fantasy and flintlocks. Will that do?


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## Garren Jacobsen

T.Allen.Smith said:


> No six-shooters yet...but I'm writing a novel with fantasy and flintlocks. Will that do?



Close enough


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## Saigonnus

I am playing with an idea about a one-handed dwarvish gunsmith... Not really making progress though. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Feo Takahari

Saigonnus said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



OT: So someone actually clicked to download that thing? I've been skipping the message every time--it looked like more trouble than it was worth.


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## Miskatonic

T.Allen.Smith said:


> No six-shooters yet...but I'm writing a novel with fantasy and flintlocks. Will that do?



How about a Pepperbox Revolver?


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## SeverinR

Saigonnus said:


> I am playing with an idea about a one-handed dwarvish gunsmith... Not really making progress though.


one handed gunsmith? No wonder you're not making any progress. Have to use the clamp to hold the gun for every action.

I think fantasy can include black powder, but once you get into reliable auto-loading firearms it pretty much ends the need for up close and personal fighting.

I think if you use a weapon in a story, look it up, review its strengths and weaknesses. Don't just go with the traditional popular sword.  Maybe even commit to identifying the exact sword or weapon, instead of a generic sword name.
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/cf/d7/51/cfd7514abe0524bc1825b021b2f412b6.jpg

http://www.thearma.org/SwordTree.jpg

Personally, I think pikes and axes were better against armor and cheaper to obtain.
Spear Axe - Bing Images


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## Legendary Sidekick

But, but, but... the katana is the only sword I trained with...!

That said, I'm focusing on woman warriors for main characters, and the naginata might work better for my "fighting nun."


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## Tom

That's Baldhart, right? I have to say, I wish I had a fighting nun character of my own!


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## Legendary Sidekick

She has a smaller, more Eastern friend named Kojima Hanako (meaning: "small island flower child" / surname before given name). Hanako's father was a samurai and her mother was a "Wire Fu" master like that lady in _Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon_. She was originally meant to have a bokken or katana, but I think the naginata works better.

Baldhart would wield something stupidly heavy, or a broadsword if I stop drawing oversized weapons. I recently discovered some great *amazon* art, which inspired me to focus on character in part by keeping weapons small and minimally designed.


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## Saigonnus

SeverinR said:


> one handed gunsmith? No wonder you're not making any progress. Have to use the clamp to hold the gun for every action.



The loss of his hand was during the events that caused him to align with the much abused orcs against the humans he'd always aligned himself with (more out of fear than anything) 

The orcs have craftsmen, but no knowledge about gunpowder weapons. They offered to restore his hand if he would help them overcome centuries of oppression.

To get this back on topic a bit, i agree that katanas should be used sparingly, and only in cultures or stories with a vaguely asian flavor. Same with long swords for europeans or axes/hammers for dwarves. 

There are so many weapons in world history that one need not fall into the basic stereotypes. Bladed-spears are cool for an alternative... They are sword, staff and spear rolled into one! I recall a were-tiger character that used one and had martial arts... Definitely formidable. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mythopoet

What?? Um... no! Katanas are awesome. You can pry them from my cold dead hands. 



SeverinR said:


> Isn't the generic fantasy long sword as tired as the katana? It's the standard issue weapon in the arsenal of fantasy. Only the great warriors have a bastard or two handed sword.  I guess in LOTR they have short swords, because they were short people.



Seriously, as far as fantasy cliches go, it's definitely the long sword that pervades epic fantasy. 



Reaver said:


> The katana is a cool weapon given the right circumstance but for my money I'd go with the naginata.



Yes, Naginata are so freaking cool. 



Ophiucha said:


> On the mention of the naginata, I'd love to see more pole and spear-type weapons in fantasy. They were more common than swords at many points (and places) in history, there's a ton of variety in their design, they're cheaper, women were often more capable of using them (good if you're writing about a female warrior), and they're just pretty cool.



Yes! I always liked pole arms and spear weapons, but after watching a certain anime with a certain character who is just GODLY with his spear...








I have a whole new appreciation for them. :redface:


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## Mythopoet

But, come on...

There's just 







nothing







as stylish







as a katana







even when it's wood.


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## Tom

I concede that katanas are very stylish, as are all these lovely people. 

But Viking warrior women are too awesome for style!


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## Legendary Sidekick

Mythopoet said:


> even when it's wood.


Damn right even when it's wood.


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## Mythopoet

Legendary Sidekick said:


> Damn right even when it's wood.



What show is that? And seriously, what is the Japanese obsession with people standing on pinnacles in front of the moon?


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## Legendary Sidekick

Outlaw Star. Click the picture. I forgot to mention it's a link to the episode, just before Twilight Suzuka (pic'd) chases Gene Starwind (MC) into traffic and is about to get hit by a truck but draws her bokken and…


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## Miskatonic

Mythopoet said:


> But, come on...
> 
> There's just
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nothing
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> 
> as stylish
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> as a katana
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> even when it's wood.



It's stylish the first 100 times you see it, after that it's a laughable cliche.


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## Legendary Sidekick

Well, if you have samurai characters, a katana is not so much cliche as it is accurate.


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## Mythopoet

Miskatonic said:


> It's stylish the first 100 times you see it, after that it's a laughable cliche.



Man, I'm glad I'm not that jaded. I don't think I could be a writer if I was.


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## Miskatonic

Mythopoet said:


> Man, I'm glad I'm not that jaded. I don't think I could be a writer if I was.



I'm 33. I've seen enough Katanas in movies, anime, manga, video games, etc., to last a lifetime.


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## Miskatonic

Legendary Sidekick said:


> Well, if you have samurai characters, a katana is not so much cliche as it is accurate.



Well at least the weaponry will be accurate then.


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## Legendary Sidekick

The thing about the katana is its unique fighting style. When you train with a katana, the first basic technique is to draw and cut horizontally (aiming for the throat or the eyes). The scabbard is used to add power to the technique. The second strike in this "combination" is an overhead strike. The curve of the blade is aimed at the top of the opponent's head; the left hand controls the blade so that it's pulled back during the vertical cut. The ideal strike would halve your opponent.

After that, you flick the blood off your sword, then sheathe it quickly. You do that by holding the end of the scabbard in your left hand. You let the unsharpened edge fall onto your hand between index and thumb, then bring the sword back a bit until your skin no longer feels the weapon. Then you thrust it into the scabbard.

The katana is to the east as the handgun is to the west. (See _A Fistful of Dollars_ and _Yojimbo._ Clint Eastwood is playing the gunfighter version of Toshiro Mifune's ronin.) Cliched? Maybe it seems so, but it's because at one point in history, that was the ultimate weapon. People devoted their lives to being great with such a weapon, whether using it for war or for deadly contests.

I can't get behind you on the "don't write katanas" because that's the only melee weapon I'm trained in. I know how you can sheathe the blade without hurting yourself, and I know WHY the quickdraw attacks are effective and WHY the weapon is normally held in both hands. I know the weight of the blade and the reason why a WHOOSH sound is not a good thing--the perfect swing is silent.

To say _katanas are cliched; don't write them_... that's like saying _elves are cliched; don't write them._ I won't write elves--not because I have something against them, but because I think humans are interesting and varied enough and elves are just pointy-eared humans (visually). Maybe that's the katana for you. It's just another sword and it doesn't make sense to use it when you can use a broadsword, long sword, bastard sword, claymore, etc.

Having said all that, I appreciate this discussion. It did make me consider alternatives for my "fighting nun" from the east. (Leaning towards naginata.) But my samurai will still have his katana.


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## Miskatonic

Not trying to sound snarky but I'm well aware of all this.


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## Mythopoet

Miskatonic said:


> I'm 33. I've seen enough Katanas in movies, anime, manga, video games, etc., to last a lifetime.



Great, good for you. I'm 33 too. I don't care how many katanas you've seen. You might as well say, "I've spent my life eating pizza and now that I'm 33, pizza has lost all its flavor and deliciousness for me. Because of this, can we please close all pizza restaurants and never serve pizza to anyone again, no matter whether they like it or not."

I'm not trying to insult you, but you're being ridiculous. If you don't like katanas then _you_ can avoid writing about them and _you_ can make the effort to avoid them from now on in the media _you_ consume. Trying to impose your tastes on others is something children do. Once you're 33 you should really know better.


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## Miskatonic

Mythopoet said:


> Great, good for you. I'm 33 too. I don't care how many katanas you've seen. You might as well say, "I've spent my life eating pizza and now that I'm 33, pizza has lost all its flavor and deliciousness for me. Because of this, can we please close all pizza restaurants and never serve pizza to anyone again, no matter whether they like it or not."
> 
> I'm not trying to insult you, but you're being ridiculous. If you don't like katanas then _you_ can avoid writing about them and _you_ can make the effort to avoid them from now on in the media _you_ consume. Trying to impose your tastes on others is something children do. Once you're 33 you should really know better.



Sounds like someone is taking it personally.

The whole point of this thread was to joke about a well known cliche. I think most of the people that responded to this thread picked up on that fact.


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## Mythopoet

Miskatonic said:


> Sounds like someone is taking it personally.
> 
> The whole point of this thread was to joke about a well known cliche. I think most of the people that responded to this thread picked up on that fact.



Yes, it does. I realize it may have been meant as a joke in the beginning, but your more recent posts have started to have a different tone, as if you're taking it personally when others point out how much they love the katana. When you respond to my post with a bunch of fun pictures complaining about how you've seen too many katanas, it's no longer a joke. Your tone is definitely gotten a bit condescending, hence why I posted what I did.


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## Legendary Sidekick

Well, that's the way humor works sometimes. Jokes fall flat (for some) and don't come off as joking. C'est la vie, or as the samurai would say,それが人生です
Sore ga jinseidesu
​
Or maybe Google Translate is full of crap.ごみ
Gomi​
Um... I laughed at the pizza comment.



EDIT - I was ninja'd!
忍者'd
Ninja'd​


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## Miskatonic

Mythopoet said:


> Yes, it does. I realize it may have been meant as a joke in the beginning, but your more recent posts have started to have a different tone, as if you're taking it personally when others point out how much they love the katana. When you respond to my post with a bunch of fun pictures complaining about how you've seen too many katanas, it's no longer a joke. Your tone is definitely gotten a bit condescending, hence why I posted what I did.



I'm not judging anyone about their taste in fantasy weaponry beyond a bit of ribbing. 

And as far as pictures, using shounen anime/manga depicting katana wielding characters ironically reinforces my point, as that's one culture that is the biggest offender. 

I'm not saying anyone's taste sucks because they like Katanas or characters that wield them.

Hell, I have brainstormed part of a story that takes place in Feudal Japan.


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## Mythopoet

Miskatonic said:


> I'm not judging anyone about their taste in fantasy weaponry beyond a bit of ribbing.
> 
> And as far as pictures, using shounen anime/manga depicting katana wielding characters ironically reinforces my point, as that's one culture that is the biggest offender.
> 
> I'm not saying anyone's taste sucks because they like Katanas or characters that wield them.
> 
> Hell, I have brainstormed part of a story that takes place in Feudal Japan.



Well, then you need to work on your delivery. Or make more of an effort to make your humor obvious in this medium because humor relies heavily on body language and vocal inflection. I usually take the words writers use at face value. If the words you are using don't convey the meaning you intend them to, then you're doing it wrong. 

And the very idea that a culture could be an "offender" for using one of its own cultural weapons is a bigger joke than any thing you've said so far in this thread. It's a real knee slapper.


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## Miskatonic

Mythopoet said:


> Well, then you need to work on your delivery. Or make more of an effort to make your humor obvious in this medium because humor relies heavily on body language and vocal inflection. I usually take the words writers use at face value. If the words you are using don't convey the meaning you intend them to, then you're doing it wrong.
> 
> And the very idea that a culture could be an "offender" for using one of its own cultural weapons is a bigger joke than any thing you've said so far in this thread. It's a real knee slapper.



Now who is being condescending?


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## T.Allen.Smith

Let's stop the personal digs. 

Both of you. 

Please.


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## X Equestris

If it fits the setting, I have no problem with katanas appearing.  However, there are a fair number of instances where it is only there for the cool factor, and that tends to detract from the story.


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## Mindfire

wordwalker said:


> I'd rather see one really great anti-katana moment, some instant-classic movie scene where the Katana Kid slashes a guy *in armor* and realizes that's the wrong place for a light weapon, followed by a friend with a good old western "crowbar sword" elbowing him aside to do the job right.



This has some, ah, unfortunate Eurocentric connotations. "Step aside, Asian! Let a White man show you how it's done!" Really, I don't think we need more Western European weapons. They're more clichÃ© than the katana is. The difference is that they've become so common and so ingrained that we don't even notice them anymore. We just kind of assume they should be there. The broadsword is the "Default human = White" of weaponry. The katana has only become clichÃ© because it's close enough to a Euro sword to feel kinda familiar while retaining enough difference to keep its "exotic" eastern flavor. Why not explore weapons from other cultures. The khopesh has a cool factor that is criminally underrated, China's got some neat swords, and I've heard good things about India.


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## Mindfire

Legendary Sidekick said:


> The katana is to the east as the handgun is to the west. (See _A Fistful of Dollars_ and _Yojimbo._ Clint Eastwood is playing the gunfighter version of Toshiro Mifune's ronin.)



That... explains a lot actually. The traditional western gunslinger showdown resolved by a quickdraw which results in the loser slumping over dead after remaining transfixed for a few seconds is very samurai duel-ish. Not sure why that never occurred to me before.


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## T.Allen.Smith

Mindfire said:


> The khopesh has a cool factor that is criminally underrated....


I think the Khopesh is the likely inspiration of the Dothraki Arakh in GRRM's ASoIaF.

I do agree though, it's the familiar, yet slightly exotic sense of the katana that has made it so prevalent.

India's Ghurka-style weapons, the Kukri (knives and swords), have always been attractive to me. Brutally powerful choppers.


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## Mindfire

T.Allen.Smith said:


> I think the Khopesh is the likely inspiration of the Dothraki Arakh in GRRM's ASoIaF.



I noticed that! They look exactly like scaled-up khopesh. (Khopeshes? Khopeshi?)


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## Legendary Sidekick

Mindfire said:


> That... explains a lot actually. The traditional western gunslinger showdown resolved by a quickdraw which results in the loser slumping over dead after remaining transfixed for a few seconds is very samurai duel-ish. Not sure why that never occurred to me before.


_Magnificant Seven_ was also an American movie that took the plot of a Kurosawa film: _Seven Samurai_. It was a bit silly how the western version of the duelist was a knife-fighter. The duelist (guy on the right) came off as masterful, but his western counterpart came off as foolish: he was literally bringing a knife to a gunfight!


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## Miskatonic

Mindfire said:


> This has some, ah, unfortunate Eurocentric connotations. "Step aside, Asian! Let a White man show you how it's done!" Really, I don't think we need more Western European weapons. They're more clichÃ© than the katana is. The difference is that they've become so common and so ingrained that we don't even notice them anymore. We just kind of assume they should be there. The broadsword is the "Default human = White" of weaponry. The katana has only become clichÃ© because it's close enough to a Euro sword to feel kinda familiar while retaining enough difference to keep its "exotic" eastern flavor. Why not explore weapons from other cultures. The khopesh has a cool factor that is criminally underrated, China's got some neat swords, and I've heard good things about India.



Eurocentric? Only if you are looking for it. Not even gonna bother with the rest. Don't want to be "misinterpreted".


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## Mindfire

Miskatonic said:


> Eurocentric? Only if you are looking for it. Not even gonna bother with the rest. Don't want to be "misinterpreted".



You can speak freely. This is a very charitable community.


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## Miskatonic

Mindfire said:


> You can speak freely. This is a very charitable community.



Not going to get into racial arguments on a forum like this. Having read a few of your threads you seem to be stuck on the idea of the social injustice of too much "whiteness" in the genre. 

Not taking it any further than that.


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## Mindfire

Miskatonic said:


> Not going to get into racial arguments on a forum like this. Having read a few of your threads you seem to be stuck on the idea of the social injustice of too much "whiteness" in the genre.
> 
> Not taking it any further than that.



It's not so much an issue of "too much whiteness" as it is an issue of "not enough everything else".


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## Feo Takahari

I'm kind of amused that _Mindfire_ is now the one "stuck on social injustice." Our resident social justice poster loved to needle him and pick fights with him, to the point of ignoring everyone else who asked her questions. (She flounced in a huff because not enough people were paying attention to her.)

The way I'd say it is that people want more of themselves. Mindfire's black and Christian, and he posts stuff about his stories about black Christians. I'm queer and Utilitarian, so I post about my stories about queer Utilitarians. I haven't seen much of you yet, but I'm sure you have your own ideas you want to discuss in your fiction.


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## Devor

I also see the katana as stylish.  It's sleek, especially around the handle, and the jagged line down the blade gives it texture.  You don't see that in most other swords.  I also think single-edged in general are a lot cooler and feel more distinct.

But if we're being realistic - not that we always have to be - there's a reason that the east and the west developed the weapons that they did.  Slashing swords are harder to pull off in a tight infantry formation, and they're less effective against armored enemies or shields.  I also think it's strange to describe the longsword as European - there's not a significant difference between it and the Chinese jian.  And then there's the tech behind it.  A lot of swords that might have looked cool disappeared because they weren't very good.

Which brings me back to the katana:  It was used late. It's "civilized" or closer to modern in that sense.

In short, the western equivalent of the katana is _not _the longsword.  It's this:








Now _that_ is a beautiful sword I would like to see more of.


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## T.Allen.Smith

Devor said:


> ...and the jagged line down the blade gives it texture.  You don't see that in most other swords.


I believe that's called a hamon. It's created in the tempering/hardening of the steel.


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## T.Allen.Smith

Devor said:


> Now that is a beautiful sword I would like to see more of.


Then you should enlist in the Marines. US Marines of non-commissioned officer rank (Corporals through to Sgt. Major) carry that saber.


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## Devor

T.Allen.Smith said:


> Then you should enlist in the Marines. US Marines of non-commissioned officer rank (Corporals through to Sgt. Major) carry that saber.



That specific saber?  I was looking for one a little earlier than that.

Oh well, it's still awesome.


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## Miskatonic

Feo Takahari said:


> I'm kind of amused that _Mindfire_ is now the one "stuck on social injustice." Our resident social justice poster loved to needle him and pick fights with him, to the point of ignoring everyone else who asked her questions. (She flounced in a huff because not enough people were paying attention to her.)
> 
> The way I'd say it is that people want more of themselves. Mindfire's black and Christian, and he posts stuff about his stories about black Christians. I'm queer and Utilitarian, so I post about my stories about queer Utilitarians. I haven't seen much of you yet, but I'm sure you have your own ideas you want to discuss in your fiction.



Not everything has to be about race, gender, or what have you. If people want to write to an audience that they think is undervalued or underrepresented then more power to them. I just get annoyed when people try and find that which isn't there. 

There's plenty of people from all different backgrounds that can provide a wealth of diverse material, however the motivation doesn't need to be based on some political/social matter. 

I mean take the Katana for example. My reason for creating this thread had nothing remotely to do with the Katana as a Japanese cultural symbol and thus making a critical judgement of the Japanese, it's just about how the Katana shows up in all sorts of popular culture for the "coolness" factor so often that it has become ridiculous. 

I could just as easily start an identical thread and change the topic to trench-coats.


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## Tom

Devor said:


> In short, the western equivalent of the katana is _not _the longsword.  It's this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now _that_ is a beautiful sword I would like to see more of.



Sabers are so elegant. I happen to own an early 20th century Indian cavalry saber. Though I can't fight with it, it's still a beautiful, deadly weapon.

I can, however, fight with its close cousin, the fencing saber. It's got some serious class of its own. Some of the cleanest, most ridiculously _stylish_ fencing I've seen was with sabers.


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## Mindfire

Feo Takahari said:


> I'm kind of amused that _Mindfire_ is now the one "stuck on social injustice." Our resident social justice poster loved to needle him and pick fights with him, to the point of ignoring everyone else who asked her questions. (She flounced in a huff because not enough people were paying attention to her.)
> 
> The way I'd say it is that people want more of themselves. Mindfire's black and Christian, and he posts stuff about his stories about black Christians. I'm queer and Utilitarian, so I post about my stories about queer Utilitarians. I haven't seen much of you yet, but I'm sure you have your own ideas you want to discuss in your fiction.


An oversimplification, but not wholly inaccurate.


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## Mindfire

Devor said:


> I also think it's strange to describe the longsword as European - there's not a significant difference between it and the Chinese jian.



I'd say there are many significant differences between a Jian and a longsword. The jian's closest western equivalent is probably the rapier.


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## Feo Takahari

Mindfire said:


> An oversimplification, but not wholly inaccurate.



The first half, the second half, or both?


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## Mindfire

Feo Takahari said:


> The first half, the second half, or both?


I'd say both. XD


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## Russ

From my admittedly practical perspective I think we should stop writing stories involving katanas when there is no longer an audience for people wanting to read stories involving katanas.


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