# Scribophile report



## PaulineMRoss (Mar 5, 2014)

About six months ago, I joined Scribophile, an online critique group, to get feedback on the early chapters of my current work. I thought it might be useful to report back on results, for the benefit of anyone thinking about joining a group, or for comparison with other groups.

First, a quick rundown of how it works. Scribophile operates on a karma currency system. You critique posted works to earn karma. You pay karma to post your own work. It takes two to three critiques to earn enough karma to post one piece. Your critiques earn karma by the word so verbosity pays! Some works are in a spotlight and earn extra karma, and some authors pay extra karma, so it builds up quite quickly if you select carefully. Unlike some critique sites, you can choose what to critique (there's lots of fantasy), and there are no time constraints. Posted pieces are supposed to be 3,000 words or below, but it's not rigid. There's a free level, allowing only two posted works at a time, or you can pay $65 a year for premium and post as many as you want - a whole novel, if you can earn that much karma.

Here's how it worked out for me. Over the six months, I posted two first chapters for general is-it-worth-continuing feedback, and the first 21 chapters of the current book. The first chapters received 6 and 7 crits respectively. The 21 chapters have received 158 crits so far (most of them are still active, so may get more). Chapter 1 got 22 crits, and chapters 2-8 all got double figures. The later chapters got lower numbers, but they're more recent.

The quality of the crits is generally very good. I've only received 2 that I would say were just written for the karma, and weren't substantive. All the others contained some useful feedback, and quite a few were awesome, either from level of detail or because they gave me some crucial insight into why a scene or chapter wasn't working. I haven't received any abusive or aggressive crits.

On the other side of the coin, I've written 135 critiques myself, and I'd say I've learned as much from that exercise as from receiving crits. However, it does take a lot of time away from writing. For a reasonably polished piece, I can critique it in about an hour, but some take a lot longer. The forums are also a time-sink, although there's some useful information too. On the plus side, I've made several good crit-buddies, who read all my chapters and I read theirs.

What Scribophile doesn't do well is critiquing a whole novel. The system works on a very narrow, chapter-by-chapter focus, people drop in to critique chapter 17 and then disappear, and even people who follow every chapter have long gaps between them. Plus, a lot of critiquers nitpick at the word and sentence level, rather than looking at character development or plot. So a novel still needs beta reading (or similar).

I've found it to be incredibly useful. It's helped me to tighten my writing while also giving me confidence that the story is working effectively. And a minor point - the website is very well designed and a pleasure to use. Like all these sites, the more you put into it the more you get out of it, so it needs some investment to get the best return. It won't suit everyone, but it's worked well for me.


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## skip.knox (Mar 5, 2014)

Good to hear this. I joined, but have not been active. I'll I get are those daily reports, which I immediately trash. I just don't have time yet to invest in more critiquing. But when I do, this sounds like a good place to spend what few hours I can spare.


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## Abbas-Al-Morim (Mar 6, 2014)

Sounds like a worthwhile endeavour for me but I do have some doubts about it. I'm terrified that someone might plagiarize my work if I post it on a site where everyone can see it. Here you have a a five-post requirement but let's be honest... someone with the intent to plagiarize won't let that stop him.

I know plagiarism isn't that likely (my work isn't _that _good either). What scares me more is someone stripping some of the mechanisms from my work (e.g. my magic system) and then using them themselves. That would seriously annoy me because some of my ideas are the work of years. Again, they're not that good but it'd piss me off to see someone else just take them off me. It would be worse still if a more talented author would do that, because once he gets published those ideas would cease to be mine...

So how would Scribophile deal with that? How can it stop others from thieving?


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## PaulineMRoss (Mar 6, 2014)

Abbas-Al-Morim said:


> So how would Scribophile deal with that? How can it stop others from thieving?



There is no guaranteed way to stop someone from stealing your work, it's just not possible. Every single book for sale on Amazon can be copied, tinkered with and resold under a different name. Anything posted on a website can be copied. Anything you publish can be plagiarised. The digital age makes it easier, that's all. Some sites are notorious for facilitating it. Others, like Scribophile, take sensible measures to protect users (password protection, hiding the site from search engines, only 18+).

You also have the protection of the law (copyright). If you're worried about plagiarisation, leave a date-stamped copy of your manuscript with a lawyer. Take out formal copyright. Keep backup copies of early versions of your work to prove that you had the idea first. 

But sometimes you just have to trust people. Isn't it better to get your work out there, than to keep it locked away? Fiction is meant to be shared, I'd say. You have to show it to people to get feedback, and you have to get feedback to improve.


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## BWFoster78 (Mar 6, 2014)

Abbas-Al-Morim said:


> Sounds like a worthwhile endeavour for me but I do have some doubts about it. I'm terrified that someone might plagiarize my work if I post it on a site where everyone can see it. Here you have a a five-post requirement but let's be honest... someone with the intent to plagiarize won't let that stop him.
> 
> I know plagiarism isn't that likely (my work isn't _that _good either). What scares me more is someone stripping some of the mechanisms from my work (e.g. my magic system) and then using them themselves. That would seriously annoy me because some of my ideas are the work of years. Again, they're not that good but it'd piss me off to see someone else just take them off me. It would be worse still if a more talented author would do that, because once he gets published those ideas would cease to be mine...
> 
> So how would Scribophile deal with that? How can it stop others from thieving?



I see this fear expressed a lot from newb authors.  My thoughts on it:

1. If most authors are anything like me, they have more ideas than they could ever possibly write about.  Crap, I'd willingly give some of them away if someone want to write them.  Give me five minutes, and I'll come up with ten more.  Basically, an "idea" isn't worth a whole heck of a lot.  Best case scenario, you've come up with a cool magic system or something, but there are tons and tons of magic systems out there.  The chances of it being so original that no one anywhere has done anything remotely similar is minute.

2. A good story is idea + character + execution.  If you and I took the same idea and each wrote a story, the two works would be nothing alike.

Understand that getting good feedback on your work is crucial to improving.  There is simply no substitute for trying your hardest to produce something great and having people tell you everything that you screwed up.  My advice is to just get over your fear.


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## Chilari (Mar 6, 2014)

To add to Brian's comment, what's to say someone else hasn't already thought up a very similar magic system to the one you've thought up, independently? Occasionally I see people posting about how they've written their novel, or are half way through, and then they've read a book from 1987 and the plot and one or two mechanics are almost identical to what they've written and they feel like giving up.

Well, who cares if the plot is identical? The delivery is not. The interpretation of themes is not. The characters are not. THe setting is not. Tell the story you want to tell and let it stand on its own merits. What are the chances, after all, that any readers will have read both books? There are way too many books out there for anyone to read them all. Tell your story.


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## Penpilot (Mar 6, 2014)

To add to what's being said about ideas, here's a antidote I've told before, but I think it applies here. I started sketching out the next novel a few years ago. I came up with this idea of a great wall surrounding the known world and creatures beyond the wall called The Others. Sound familiar? About a year ago I started reading Game of Thrones. Bang, two of my key elements not only used before, but used by a pop culture blockbuster. After crying for a bit, I adjusted and kept going. They way I used these elements and what they mean to my story are different than in Game of Thrones. The biggest thing I had to do was adjust the names.

Honestly, no matter how original you think your elements are, I can say with great certainty, they've been used before.

As for this site and sites like it, I'm a bit soured on them. I had a bad experience with another site that worked almost exactly like this, but instead of Karma, it worked on credits. Basically, first I got yelled at because the author didn't like my critique. They said, "My English teacher said it was fine." Then second, they complained to a site mod, and the mod took away the credits for my critique. IMHO, my critique was fair, and very mild.

This is not to say Scibophile is or will be like my experience. From the report it seems like a very nice place. I'm just saying this as a warning. When dealing with strangers on sites like this, not everyone will appreciate your critique. Some people will have very thin skins, so prepare yourself for the 1 in a 1000 unpleasant encounter.


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## Feo Takahari (Mar 6, 2014)

I'm not sure I understand what's bad about being plagiarized. The folks who plagiarized my work posted it for free on sites I'm pretty sure are infected with malware--the people who would go to those sites probably aren't the people who would buy my stories. Many of my fellow writers on Literotica had their work stolen and resold as ebooks on Amazon.com, but unless you sell Amazon ebooks with stock photo covers and blurbs in broken English, it's again unlikely you'd be selling to the same people as the plagiarists. (And as for it being stolen by someone more talented, I can assure you that plagiarists tend to be hacks whose stories are either completely identical to or significantly worse than the original.)


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## BWFoster78 (Mar 6, 2014)

> As for this site and sites like it, I'm a bit soured on them. I had a bad experience with another site that worked almost exactly like this, but instead of Karma, it worked on credits. Basically, first I got yelled at because the author didn't like my critique. They said, "My English teacher said it was fine." Then second, they complained to a site mod, and the mod took away the credits for my critique. IMHO, my critique was fair, and very mild.



I don't think that there is any way to protect against running into the occassional delusional writer.  When I do a critique, I accept the fact that the person have absolutely no clue and respond in the way that you described.  My response to that is, "Sorry my comments weren't useful to you."  Then, I move on.

The real issue I have with your story is the actions of the moderator.  That is simply unacceptable, and I can't see that happening on Scribophile.

I echo Pauline's experiences with the crits there.  I would say that at least 2/3 of the crits I've gotten (not nearly as many as she has, though) have been quite valuable.  A couple have been exceptional.


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## Trick (Mar 6, 2014)

Just my thought on the plagiarism fears: Either someone thinks your work is good enough to steal and they have no respect for a fellow writer, which implies they lack in skill as a writer themselves, or they simply have no scruples but are talented enough to take your work and write something worth publishing. In the first case, they're going no where so it doesn't matter. In the second case, they'll become a published author with your work and you'll know exactly who they are and where they live... so you can give them a harsh talking to, of course.

To BW Foster, I noticed the tag after the link to your blog is misspelled. It says Power fo the Mages... which is funny but I think you meant 'of.'


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## Svrtnsse (Mar 6, 2014)

EDIT: N/A - post irrelevant


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