# Race & Ridiculousness in Worldbuilding



## Devor (Nov 22, 2015)

Hey all.

I've been working on merging three or four old story ideas into three stages of one coherent semi-humorous setting.  Based on the general nature of the setting, everything is supposed to be dripping with over the top magic-driven characters and cliches.  A character might be based off of Tony Soprano, if Tony Soprano had magical weapons instead of guns.

But I'm at a loss for what role race should play in a setting like this.  The idea is to parody the genre, not the real-world counterparts that genre portrays.  So if there's a witch, or a witch-doctor, or some kind of a tribal character, where's the balance in drawing the line between fantasy parody and real-world commentary?

I don't want to use humor to "justify" things I shouldn't.  But it's hard to find the right lines.  Where do I start?


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## ThinkerX (Nov 22, 2015)

If you are going over the top, then go over the top all the way.  MC goes to consult a witch doctor, then witch doctor gives an Olympic level dance performance to go with the consult.  Tribal hunter in a civilized setting?  Think 'Capital One Barbarians' from the old commercial series - really out of place characters shoot Christmas lawn ornaments for food, that sort of thing.


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## skip.knox (Nov 22, 2015)

Just write it. Jump off the cliff. Your readers will tell you whether you were flying or just falling.


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## FifthView (Nov 22, 2015)

RE: race.

In the anime _Kyo Kara Maoh!_, a kid gets whisked to a fantasy world from our own, where he finds out he's the Demon King.  The race of people in his kingdom, The Great Demon Kingdom, are called demons; they are feared and/or reviled as demons by all the human countries around them—but, they look entirely indistinguishable from humans.  In fact, the only "distinguishable" trait that this kid has, which he needs to hide when he travels to the human kingdoms, is his black hair and black eyes.  Also, he usually wears his school uniform from Earth, which is black.   Most of the other so-called "demons" of The Great Demon Kingdom have eye colors and hair colors just like the humans; the MC is the Demon King, however, and this is tied to his darker hair and eye color.  So the whole series is founded on this hostility between the humans and the demons, a racial hostility, but there's really no identifiable physical trait to distinguish them.  I've always thought this was a very clever stab at racism.


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## WooHooMan (Nov 22, 2015)

Devor said:


> But I'm at a loss for what role race should play in a setting like this.  The idea is to parody the genre, not the real-world counterparts that genre portrays.



The purpose of fantasy races is for the sake of creating parallels between the fantasy world and the real world.
That's what the convention is for really.

You could do the method of having the races' societies being built around ideals rather than imagery.  One race is the "hunter-gatherer" race, another is the industrial race and so forth.
That's hardly unheard of.

I did a story where the different cultures represent subgenres.  So, you could have the "sword and sorcery" race, the "high fantasy" culture and so forth.

Does any of that help?  I'm actually having trouble understanding what you're asking for.


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## Penpilot (Nov 23, 2015)

I'm not sure I'm 100% clear on what you're asking, but from what I'm getting, I think I agree if you're going over the top, commit to it and don't look back. BUT for example you have a Tony Soprano type character/mob boss, what I'm gleaning is you don't want to perpetuate an Italian stereotype. So I'd say in order to balance that out, first, don't make all of race X act like that character. And two, give depth to the character. Have them break stereotype in some way.

Yes, you're writing a parody with over-the-top humor, but humor at its heart deals in revealing truth. I've watched very little of the Sopranos, but if memory serves, he had a mother, and a lot of humor came from his relationship with her. That humor played off the truth that we all have parents and sometimes they just drive us nuts. It doesn't matter if you're Joe Average or a mob boss, most of us experience this common truth. 

Just sort of monologuing here. Play with expectations and stereotypes. Imagine the Tony Soprano character turns out not to be a mob boss but just a dude who runs a bookstore. Things seem mob like but he's a upstanding law abiding citizen. On the other side you could have a group of soccer moms turn out to be ruthless mobsters in between baking cookies.

It can be a hard balance, but I'm reminded of the TV show the Big Bang Theory. What makes it work for me is the humor comes not from making fun of a group of people, nerds being nerds or non-nerds being non-nerds.  It comes from poking fun at the individual and their idiosyncrasies in a way that it's not necessarily laughing at them but laughing with them.

There's no judgement in the show. It never says nerd bad and non-nerd good, or nerd good and non-nerd bad. It's always about the individual being good/bad with no regard to if they're a nerd or not. Regardless of the label, they are people first.


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## NerdyCavegirl (Nov 23, 2015)

I say just go for it. People are overly politically correct nowadays. Sure I believe in respect and all, but parody is flattery, and whatever you do or say will always offend someone. xD That's why people need to learn to take things less personally.


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## Nimue (Nov 23, 2015)

Unsurprisingly, I think the "Some people will take offense anyway, so why try!" attitude is pretty lazy, so I'll try to offer some alternatives.  Lampshade the **** out of it.  Have the person being stereotyped allude to how dumb it is. Have the stereotype come from how other people treat them, not how they actually are.  Like somebody practicing their "mystic tribal divination" when they're really just making shit up in order to get the party to do what they want, and everyone else eats it up because that's what they expect, so why look any closer?

However... Tbh, after a while that's going to feel more grim than funny.  You're still essentially playing off racist jokes the whole time.  I guess I gotta ask why you feel it's necessary to include them?  Yes, there was a lot of stupid racist stuff in old fantasy fiction, but this is your world.  Why not have a black wizard and be making fun of wizard cliches, or a Polynesian warrior with barbarian meathead jokes?  You don't need to satirize absolutely everything--in fact, it might be a lot more bearable if you don't, and land the better jokes instead of trying for all of them.


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## Devor (Nov 23, 2015)

The only thing I have that's at all overt about race is a group in my notes (that is, still easy to change) that's supposed to be a cross between the Vikings and the Spanish Conquistadors.  Still, there are other groups of varying ethnicities and fantasy traits that might be read that way.

The way the story is being told, characters do not get heavily developed.  I'm not that funny, so the humor is driven a lot by giving ridiculous characters a surprising moment of awesome and a fast character arc that turns in a surprise direction.  The goal is to get readers thinking, "Who is this moron.....?  WHOA that was awesome!"

Another thing - if it matters one way or another - but magic in the entire setting is driven by equipment.  You're a wizard if you have, and have figured out how to use, a spellbook.  You're a shaman if you have, and know how to use, the appropriate totems or fetishes.  Everything is gear based, like a resource or wealth, so nobody has any inherent magic.  If a tribal group doesn't have much magical equipment, it will show that they are poor or have been pillaged.


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## Devor (Nov 23, 2015)

You know, I can see that this is more awkward than anything.

I think I'm going to focus on keeping the humor sit-comy - that is, making the characters as serious as space permits underneath the ridiculous fantasy getup, and keeping the parody out of the characters' actual behavior.  I think that's pretty much the tone I was shooting for, and it's good to be putting that in stone as a way to cement what is or is not a "target" for humor.  The fantasy getup?  Perfect game, go overboard.  The characters' actual thoughts and behaviors?  No, keep it real.


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## qWirtzy (Nov 23, 2015)

Devor said:


> The fantasy getup?  Perfect game, go overboard.  The characters' actual thoughts and behaviors?  No, keep it real.



This sounds like a good balance to me. The redemption of the ludicrous makes for a more interesting parody than poking fun at tropes. It'll come across as smarter and more satyrical in the framework you've landed on here, I think: You'll have more flexibility to choose what you want to make funny if you keep your characters more grounded. That way, their reactions can function as a comment on the world you build, rather than as a comment on the established stereotypes others have built.


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## BaneStar007 (Nov 25, 2015)

Based on your OP, I thought you were asking 'what race should the mob be in a fantasy setting' and I thought Orks (note, the Warhammer style spelling) which would be an interesting read, Robert Asprin's "mob" used a scaly skinned race, referred to as Demons (though, anyone off world was a demon I think) which would also work.


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