# Sounding clichÃ©



## iWant iStrive (Jan 21, 2013)

Hi all

I am currently writing my first novel and have very little experience. One thing I'm finding is that I think I have a good idea for stories etc, but when I explain it to someone else to see if they think it sounds good, I cant help but think to myself that it sounds a bit clichÃ©.

For example, even something very simple like "he was being hunted by a group of mercenaries that want to kill him which leads to an epic adventure" sounds quite clichÃ© to me, but then I struggle to think of something that _doesnt_ sound clichÃ© when boiled down to one sentence.

I think it might be all down to how the story is told, but how do other people make sure their work doesn't sound too predictable or clichÃ©d?

//
iWant iStrive


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## SionR25 (Jan 21, 2013)

Its a difficult question to answer but I think you have sort of answered it yourself. If you were to bring a lot of fantasy books down to a one sentence summary, you would get quite a lot of repeating ideas. The way I think most stories stay original is not in the overall plot, but in how the plot develops and how certain elements of it are revealed. I think to stop it becoming to cliched and predictable you need to know how it will end and then try to make sure the rest of the story appears to build up to some other event.
Hope this helps


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## Chilari (Jan 21, 2013)

The thing about cliches is that they are recognisable tropes, sequences or characters which form part of the language of storytelling. When boiled down to its key component parts, pretty much everything is cliche. How about this:

Young man discovers he's the son of a king, hidden away for years by his aging mentor, and as a result has special abilities that gives him the right to rule. He falls in love with a beautiful princess and with her and his mentor at his side defeats an evil sorceress, who is also his half-sister, who wants his throne.

Sound familiar? It should. That's one of the versions of the King Arthur story. And it's not the only story that has these elements. The description for Eragon isn't far away from that above, and if you take out the monarchy bits and change a few other bits, you've got Harry Potter.

You're new to writing. Don't worry about cliche. Just write what you enjoy.

See, my early writing was awfully full of cliche and terribly unrealistic situations involving kings and queens, magic, redemption quests and all sorts. Once I realised how terrible it was, I decided to try to improve. But instead of looking at it and analysing it and realising that what was wrong with it was a basic failure in understanding of human nature, I instead fixated on the cliches, and decided that was what was holding my writing back. So the next stage of my writing, in my mid to late teens, was all about subverting or avoiding cliches.

The stories I wrote in this period were no less cliche because I couldn't avoid all of it, but they were very bad stories because I was so obsessed about being original that I forgot about how to construct a story and let it flow logically as a narrative - and I also still hadn't fixed the underlying problem, which was that I didn't understand people and motivations.

It wasn't until I stopped and looked at things from the point of view of individual characters, gave them wants, desires, things they enjoy and don't enjoy, responsibilities and so on that I started actually producing stories which were worthwhile. I'm still struggling with the storytelling side of things - constructing a strong narrative with a beginning, middle and a strong ending - but I feel I've got the characters down now.

Point being, there's a lot more to learning about writing stories than worrying about cliches. So just forget about cliches and focus on teling a compelling story with interesting, human characters.


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## Philip Overby (Jan 21, 2013)

Chilari makes a lot of great points here.  My personal feelings when new writers worry about cliches, it's because that's a natural thing to worry about when you're first starting out.  You want to be original, awesome, unique.  However, learning how to write, how to put a story together (as Chilari pointed out) is much more important than being original in your early stages.  I would actually suggest to think of the most cliche thing you can think of and write it.  From start to finish.  Once you finish your story, you won't worry about being cliche anymore because you'll see so many other issues that are much more important:

Does my plot make sense and follow a natural flow?
Do my characters develop in meaningful ways?
Is my setting believable?
Is the tone consistent?
Is there a beginning, middle, and end?
Is the ending satisfying?  

Etc. etc.

These are questions newer writers should be asking themselves early on to save them the trouble of stalling every story they come up with because they think it's cliche.  When writers ask "Is this cliche?" they're really wanting someone to say, "Yes, it is" so they don't have to write it.  Fear of being completely original can crush a burgeoning writer's spirit, so I think just skip that stage if you can (I wish I would have) and start getting into the meat of creating fiction:  writing.  So my suggestion is to embrace cliche and just write it out.


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## WyrdMystic (Jan 21, 2013)

Just to add, not using cliches is such a cliche. The trick is how to use them to blindside your reader. Keep practicing and I'm sure it'll come to you.


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## Feo Takahari (Jan 21, 2013)

To approach WyrdMystic's idea from another direction, what can you do with the ideas you're using that the authors you stole those ideas from didn't think of or didn't have the guts for? What if the dark lord has a more personal goal than ruling over the world, or the farm boy has no interest in becoming a classic hero? What if the soldiers in the army of evil realize what a raw deal they're getting? What if you take a world full of blood and death and tell a love story there, or take a world suited to romance and write a murder mystery? Fake your readers out, and let unexpected themes and concepts sneak up on them.


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## PaulineMRoss (Jan 21, 2013)

Don't worry about the plot containing cliche elements. It's all in the writing. The book I'm reading at the moment is a catalogue of cliches, in a lot of ways, but it's a cracking story with great characterisation and unexpected twists at every turn.


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## WyrdMystic (Jan 21, 2013)

Exactly, use what people know and love to lull them into a false sense of security and then blow them away. Also, never forget that cliches are used again and again because that is what a lot of people love to read about.


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## wordwalker (Jan 21, 2013)

Lots of great ideas. I especially like



Phil the Drill said:


> I would actually suggest to think of the most cliche thing you can think of and write it.  From start to finish.  Once you finish your story, you won't worry about being cliche anymore because you'll see so many other issues that are much more important.





Feo Takahari said:


> To approach WyrdMystic's idea from another direction, what can you do with the ideas you're using that the authors you stole those ideas from didn't think of or didn't have the guts for?



To me, good writing is digging into what makes the things happen (why it didn't come out This way, why That means people wouldn't survive it, etc) plus an eye to what's good drama. Most good stories use a lot of the same patterns, but even the most similar ones feel very different... and it comes just from being true to their details. (Though some of Feo's deliberate "find the other path" can be great inspiration, especially if you see a known story that's similar to yours on the surface.)

"Cliche" can be almost like "gimmick," meaning the times someone took a good idea but didn't do it justice. If you do things right, it doesn't apply.

Actually, it sounds like you've got a related problem, having trouble *talking* about your ideas. That can get tricky itself because you know you have to condense things too far (sometimes it really is "how do you hook someone before they leave the elevator"?), and have to fight to keep something distinct in what you say. I'd recommend the http://mythicscribes.com/forums/writing-questions/6792-writing-good-pitch.html post for most of the principles; it's more about when you have a few paragraphs or so to write it out, but it tells a lot of what you might want to get into an explanation.

Then, you might try finding a fun, unique one-liner you can always open with; it saves a lot of trouble both socially and in marketing. Best tool I ever came up with was _"He can hear a whisper a block away, and can't remember why."_


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## Anders Ã„mting (Jan 22, 2013)

iWant iStrive said:


> For example, even something very simple like "he was being hunted by a group of mercenaries that want to kill him which leads to an epic adventure" sounds quite clichÃ© to me, but then I struggle to think of something that _doesnt_ sound clichÃ© when boiled down to one sentence.



Honestly I find that _most _concepts sound clichÃ© (or at least heavily derivative) when boiled down to one sentence. Here's my main fantasy novel concepts I really want to write:

-A young girl finds out she is a magician, goes to a magician boarding school, has advantures.
-A young man travels to a magical world, falls in love with a princess, has adventures.
-Time-travelling teenagers create history while battling the villains who destroyed their planet. (Okay, so this one does sound pretty original.)
-"It's basically Twilight by way of Percy Jacksson with Greek mythology replaced by Arthurian legend."

Thing is, I _know_ these stories aren't clichÃ©. I wouldn't be writing them if I thought they were. I know the differance between clichÃ©s and working with your influences rather than against them, and that originality has more to do with _how _you use your influences rather than avoiding them. And I _have _to write these stories because I know nobody else can write them the way I imagine them.

I'm not saying you should write _any_ idea that comes to your mind - if an idea seems clichÃ©, maybe it actually is? I mean, you are going to have a lot of bad ideas, especially if you are young or inexperienced, because it takes a while for your brain to learn how to refine your creativity. 

But once you have an idea for a book that you_ really_ like and _really _believe in, you can't let something like this stop you. You have to _know_ that it isn't clichÃ©, not matter what it sounds like.


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## iWant iStrive (Jan 22, 2013)

Thanks a lot for the advice guys, I guess I'm not the only one that has thought about this before.

I think I'll take your advice and just forget about it. I suppose if it does end up coming across clichÃ© then my draft readers will pick up on it and I can rework it.

I'll put my focus on creating interesting characters that the audience connects to, as thats what I find to be the most important thing in the books I read. In fact most of my favourite stories are relatively simple concepts, but involving characters that the author really makes you emotionally attached to. Add in a few twists and plenty of suspense and i think I stand a good chance of coming up with something good.

I'm just refining my first chapter at the moment to post on here for some feedback on my writing too.


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## Lock (Jan 24, 2013)

Hey, thanks for proposing the topic of clichÃ©s iWant iStrive, the responses you received have lifted my spirits and helped me get back on my horse. I now feel ready for a new day: a real happy camper.


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## dwellerofthedeep (Jan 24, 2013)

I wouldn't worry too much about Cliche on the macro-level. It's all about the little details--If small things become cliche in your story people are going to criticize. But big ideas are more how you place a story in genre/market than how you wow the reader.


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