# Starting a chapter with dialogue: okay to do?



## Ireth (Jan 22, 2014)

I'm doing a fair bit of revision in Winter's Queen, starting at the beginning and working my way forward. I've come upon a little problem between chapters 1 and 2. The last scene of chapter 1 is from the heroine's POV, and involves her being kidnapped by the villain, a Fae prince. Prior to this, she's on her cellphone with her father as she and her friends, twin brothers, are running from the temporarily-unconscious villain to the safety of a nearby church. The conversation runs thusly:

She rummaged in her pocket for her mobile phone, and found her father's mobile number without looking at the screen.  She pressed her phone to her ear and waited for an answer, yelping as soon as it came.  "Daddy!"

"Ariel?"  His voice was sharp with fear.  "What's going on?"

"Fae!" she gasped.  "Wants to kidnap me.  I hit him--think I knocked him out.  We're running--Hunslet Hall Road, Church of the Nazarene.  Please hurry!"

"I'll be right there."  Footsteps raced and a door slammed on the other end of the line.  "Stay put once you're there, and do not end this call!"

Ariel nodded, gulping for breath.  "Okay."

"Are any of you hurt?"

Ariel repeated the question for the twins, who both shook their heads.  "We're all okay."

Her father sighed.  "Good.  Are you at the church?"

"Almost.  I can see it now."  She forced her aching legs to put on speed.

"And the Fae, do you see him?"

"Don't think that matters, Dad."

"True enough.  Ah, sh--!"

"Dad?"  Ariel stumbled to a halt and nearly overbalanced.  "Daddy?"  She looked at the screen--the call had disconnected.

The main thing I'm concerned about is the father's final bit of dialogue. The curse cut short and the dropped call happen because, as he too is running to the church, Ariel's father trips, drops his phone and knocks the battery out. He also cuts his knee, further delaying his attempt to save her, which is how Ariel ends up kidnapped before he gets to her.

I intend for chapter 2 to switch to the father's POV, overlapping with the scene just before it, and beginning at the moment he trips and drops his phone. Since there's not a lot by way of action or description in the final few lines of the phone conversation (which is entirely intentional, to show urgency with a rapid pace), I don't feel that starting out with a description of the father running would be very effective. I'd meant to open with the "Ah, sh--!" line, then describe the fall, etc. I've heard bad things about opening a scene with dialogue, but given that this is a slight reiteration of the previous scene, I think it should be fairly obvious from the get-go who's speaking, where they are and why. What are your thoughts on this?

Edit to add: The daughter and her friends are all 16 years old; Ariel's use of the word "Daddy" is not to imply immaturity on her part, but as a signal to her father that things are not okay, she's scared and feeling helpless.


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## Feo Takahari (Jan 22, 2014)

I've never heard that it's bad to start a chapter with dialogue. I do it all the time.


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## buyjupiter (Jan 22, 2014)

It's not good to start with dialogue? *checks the many WiPs* Oh sh--. I don't know if the "don't start with dialogue" is an old rule, or a rule that comes from more "mainstream" fiction. If dialogue is a writing strength and you have an interesting bit to start with, why not?

I don't think you have anything to worry about if you're overlapping a bit for the POV shift. I've done the same thing, especially when I've needed to shift to my antagonist's POV sections. I think it works, as you've described it here.


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## Ireth (Jan 22, 2014)

Feo Takahari said:


> I've never heard that it's bad to start a chapter with dialogue. I do it all the time.





buyjupiter said:


> It's not good to start with dialogue? *checks the many WiPs* Oh sh--. I don't know if the "don't start with dialogue" is an old rule, or a rule that comes from more "mainstream" fiction. If dialogue is a writing strength and you have an interesting bit to start with, why not?
> 
> I don't think you have anything to worry about if you're overlapping a bit for the POV shift. I've done the same thing, especially when I've needed to shift to my antagonist's POV sections. I think it works, as you've described it here.



I've heard it's frowned upon because it doesn't always give an immediate sense of the setting or character (unless he/she's doing an infodump about the surroundings, I guess). Your mileage may vary.


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## kayd_mon (Jan 22, 2014)

Every time I have done it, at least one of my critique partners flags it as something that needs to be changed. 

As a reader, I like it. I like being thrown into the conversation and filling in the blanks (who's speaking? what's this about?) as I go through the scene. 

In your case, I think that starting with that dialog would feel like a natural way to switch POV.


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## buyjupiter (Jan 22, 2014)

Ireth said:


> I've heard it's frowned upon because it doesn't always give an immediate sense of the setting or character (unless he/she's doing an infodump about the surroundings, I guess). Your mileage may vary.



I guess that makes sense. When I've used dialogue as an opening, it is generally to get right into the conflict that the characters are having. And I do tend to do it more in short stories than I do in longer works.


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## Noma Galway (Jan 22, 2014)

I believe _Blood of the Fold_, the third Sword of Truth book, begins with the words "Let me kill him for you." It was the best opening for a book or chapter I have ever read.

I really believe it is the author's prerogative. If it works, it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't. In your case, I think starting with the dialog would be a really good idea.


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## A. E. Lowan (Jan 22, 2014)

I'd say, looking back, that so far we've started about 3/4 of our chapters with dialogue.  I can understand there being an issue if setting/character aren't immediately established at a chapter's opening, but avoiding dialogue doesn't automatically solve this - in fact, we start often start with dialogue because we find it to be a very expedient way to set both character and mood within a few short lines.


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## Penpilot (Jan 22, 2014)

Ireth said:


> I've heard it's frowned upon because it doesn't always give an immediate sense of the setting or character (unless he/she's doing an infodump about the surroundings, I guess). Your mileage may vary.



It's fine to start with dialogue. IMHO the reader will give you some leeway, but it's also on your shoulders to establish setting and character ASAP to ground the reader. It can easily be done using the dialogue tags/action tags/etc. For example, if your character is described as putting down the gas pump handle right after the first piece of dialogue, you've established setting.


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## Philip Overby (Jan 23, 2014)

I've also heard that it's not good to start with dialogue, but yeah, I'm also in the camp that I don't mind if something starts with it. I don't get where that idea comes from honestly. I've heard that it's "why care what someone is saying if you don't know who it is." I've heard the same about starting with some kind of action as well. Like if someone is fighting something, it's hard to care about them because you don't who they are. I don't know, I'm cool with lots of different kinds of openings.


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## Ruby (Jan 23, 2014)

Ireth said:


> I've heard it's frowned upon because it doesn't always give an immediate sense of the setting or character (unless he/she's doing an infodump about the surroundings, I guess). Your mileage may vary.


Hi, I find this interesting because I thought the opposite is true: that to start with a lot of exposition is frowned upon because you're supposed to " show not tell".

I've noticed that many books these days start with conversation, often without giving the names or details about the characters,nor the setting, so it takes me until the next chapter to find out what on earth is going on! I read lots of children's books ( because of my job ...ha ha... that's my excuse!) and I find that these days they always start with dialogue.

i actually prefer to read description and to know what's going on. Funnily enough, I've tended to start my writing with dialogue recently, believing this is what publishers expect. I thought they disapproved of the old fashioned 19th Century novel tradition of having to read several pages of description and exposition before a character appeared and something happened.

Coming back to Ireth's extract from her WIP above, I think that's great and the writing really drew me into the plot. I'd definitely want to read it.


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## SineNomine (Jan 23, 2014)

Ireth said:


> I've heard it's frowned upon because it doesn't always give an immediate sense of the setting or character (unless he/she's doing an infodump about the surroundings, I guess). Your mileage may vary.



It is a bit risky at the VERY beginning, but here it works perfectly IMO.  Because you are immediately connecting it with the events of the previous chapter, you have the reader already invested in what is happening AND they instantly know who it is happening to because those very same words were used previously and so the context is there instantly that this is her father!

The main problem is, as I said, that if the reader doesn't have a reason to care they may just be turned off by it but I just don't think that applies here.


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## wordwalker (Jan 23, 2014)

I'm not sure how much this is a real belief out there. It might come from the idea that since dialog is several people playing off each other, it could seem more abrupt or even be harder to understand what's going on, while a bit of description eases you in better. (Or it could just be description snobs who feel cheated whenever they see quotes.) But then, good dialog _can_ lead you in clearly, and it _can_ have good description too in a few lines between quotes, or in a pause a couple paragraphs down.



SineNomine said:


> It is a bit risky at the VERY beginning, but here it works perfectly IMO.  Because you are immediately connecting it with the events of the previous chapter, you have the reader already invested in what is happening AND they instantly know who it is happening to because those very same words were used previously and so the context is there instantly that this is her father!



A good point here. The jolt effect can be much worse early on. (Lisa Cron has a great piece about how not to set up first chapters, though it isn't really about dialog: A Cautionary Tale: 3 Writing Rules that Can Derail Your Story.)

I think another risk with opening dialog could be the opposite: that if you let how real people talk influence your dialog too much, it turns into a scene starting too early and wandering its way to the point, and lacking the focus a scene-start needs.

Which is not the case with the OP! Mid-book, mid-action dialog like that simply _works_.


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## Ireth (Jan 23, 2014)

Thanks for the advice, everyone!  Wordwalker, I really like that article you linked. I like to think I did a good job in the first chapter of hooking the reader with crucial information right away. Chapter 1 opens with the villain telling his father of his intention to seek a bride, which casts a shadow over the following scenes involving said intended bride (Ariel, naturally) and her own father. Hopefully the reader is left wondering when and how the villain will show up and get what he wants.


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## Mythopoet (Jan 23, 2014)

Storytelling techniques are like the little girl who had a little curl: when they are good they are very good indeed, and when they are bad they are horrid.

Fortunately and unfortunately, which way it will go in your story depends entirely on your skill as a storyteller.


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## T.Allen.Smith (Jan 23, 2014)

Jumping on a bit late here but....

I don't see why you can't start with dialogue or any other type of beginning. I'd lean toward agreeing with the idea of "establishing character early", but dialogue is one of the best, and most powerful, ways to effect characterization.

If your dialogue for each character offers some distinction, then it seems perfectly reasonable to rely on dialogue to do a lot of the heavy lifting in a chapter's beginning.


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## druidofwinter (Jan 23, 2014)

Many of the chapters in my WIP start with dialogue and I have never seen anything in the MANY writing books I have read that would contradict this practice.


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