# Avoiding Jedi



## D. Gray Warrior (Aug 4, 2015)

I am currently doing some worldbuilding for a science/fantasy blend story.

The world has an order of knights who are divided into two classes: Warriors (fight in wars) and Protectors (Law enforcement).

The Knights wear futuristic armor that closely resembles what knights wore in the Middel Ages. They weild laser swords.

I am trying to avoid giving them magic (or force powers) and may steer clear of making them a religious order since I don't want them to have too much resemblance of Jedi.

My world was not influenced by Star Wars (at least not conciously)


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## T.Allen.Smith (Aug 4, 2015)

If you use a laser sword, you'll have a hard time distancing yourself from Star Wars. 

Everything else could be totally different, but certain things are too iconic. Like lightsabers.


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## Legendary Sidekick (Aug 4, 2015)

Well……………

It's really hard to have a laser sword and not think Star Wars. Even in Smash Bros., when I first saw the Beam Sword in that game, I said, "Ooh! A light saber!" (*may or may not be exact words—I'm a jackass when I play video games) And I usually play as Samus, so of course that made it even more light-sabery.

Once you have that laser sword, that's it. Everything is Star Wars. Readers will hear the WUMM WUMM when the sword swings, even if your description implies the swords sound more like bacon. And the medieval armor… if the bad guy wears a dark helmet, readers will picture Vader. Or Dark Helmet.








So, TAS beat me to it, but yeah, it's as he said. The "laser swords" resemble the most iconic thing about Star Wars. That's just the way it is… sometimes your ideas are so similar to what's out there, you actually need to change things up to avoid looking like a copycat.


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## Reaver (Aug 4, 2015)

Hey.. Thundarr the Barbarian got away with it. His Sunsword IS NOT a lightsaber (even though the sun is a source of light) and Ookla the Mok IS NOT a Wookie (even though Ookla was a big furry guy who didn't speak).


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## Legendary Sidekick (Aug 4, 2015)

Well, one thing is certain. That planet-destroying thing is NOT a Death Star. (It's a Death Comet.)


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## Tom (Aug 4, 2015)

It's no moon, either.


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## Reaver (Aug 4, 2015)

Also, the fact that Princess Ariel's father is the main villain is purely coincidental.


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## Legendary Sidekick (Aug 4, 2015)

PRINCESS ARIEL: "You killed my father!"
TRITON: "No. I _am _your father!"
FLOUNDER: "Noooooooooooo!"


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## Reaver (Aug 4, 2015)

This Flounder?


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## Legendary Sidekick (Aug 4, 2015)

Well, anyway, just to stick to the OP's topic, even a German Star Wars parody had a medieval Darth Vader in a joust.







Most of Traumschiffe Surprise Periode 1 was in space, with a Han Solo-like character and Trekkies who wear secondary colors instead of primary…







But anyway, I think the point is that you'll have a hard time being Star-Wars-like but being seen as not-Star-Wars-like. Since you're going for medieval, is there a chance you could have magic swords that aren't light sabers?

I once wrote an angel of death who wielded a sword made of pure white light. I mean the whole sword, hilt and all, would just appear in her hand. I'm not saying this was a good idea so much as I felt like I was creating imagery that was different enough from a light saber. (Maybe it doesn't come off that way here in this post with Star Wars/Trek parody pics, though!)


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## Reaver (Aug 4, 2015)

I wouldn't worry about it too much. The term lightsaber is inaccurate anyway. Actual light would go on for infinity. 

They're probably some sort of energy contained within a small, focused plasma field. If you go the magic route, you could have weapons that exude anything you want. Light, flame, lightning, wind, water, and so on.

If anything you should avoid the whole knight thing. Maybe go with a league of assassins or a monastery of fighting monks.


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## evolution_rex (Aug 4, 2015)

To be honest, I wouldn't go with a laser sword. The concept itself doesn't really make much sense to me and it's already been done before. Swords are already impractical in a science fiction setting, so the suspension of disbelief doesn't need to go that far. Why not metal swords made of a futuristic advanced metal?


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## Saigonnus (Aug 4, 2015)

Since everyone already mentioned the whole light-saber aspect,  I won't mention anything beyond the fact that I agree with them, a laser sword it too recognizable. 

Instead I will focus my comments on magic. If one were so inclined, one might give them magic that isn't force-like at all. You know, the whole natural occurring force bent to the users will with force of will or whatever. There are many forms of magic. Maybe it evolved to the future from a more structured runic based magic, or alchemical, or even powered crystal/doodad type. This could differentiate it from Star Wars. It would have to be decidedly different though so there isn't much parallel. 

The concept you'd have to overcome, is whether magic is limited to the planet (like a magnetic field is), limiting their ability to use it to the planet... or whether it spans the universe, or how it is carried out into the vast blackness of space.  I think that is why George Lucas used the force, encompassing all things, so it could be anywhere in the universe, so the Jedi could hold sway anywhere they went. 

Perhaps "magic" is a natural thing in the universe, but limited to planetary bodies, and they must use runes or some catalyst to carry it out into space, which would make it different from the force. I could see ships using magical propulsion, magical plating on the hull to resist radiation and weapon strikes, a storage container for extra "magic" in case they need repairs on the fly. 

The same could be used for weaponry... Enchanted staves or whatever with whatever ability you want it to have. I could see knights like that serving as the police force with stun batons, ones that instantly knock someone out, pacifying them quickly.

Anyway, just a few thoughts, I hope they help.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## WooHooMan (Aug 4, 2015)

Man, this thread got weird quick.

I have groups of characters who are intentionally based on Jedi and Sith.  I was initially going to give them laser swords but then I was like "no, as soon as you give them laser swords they cross the line from Jedi-influenced to Jedi-copies".

I think it's possible to have swords in a sci-fantasy setting and not feel anachronistic as long as there are no guns.  If there are guns in the setting, you could have their swords be symbols of authority rather than practical weapons.

What I'm getting at is: no laser swords.  Religious order with magical powers is okay but laser swords are the line.


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## D. Gray Warrior (Aug 4, 2015)

Thanks for the answers!

I like the magic idea. Maybe they have swords made out of spiritual energy "chi" that they summon from within themselves. This however drains their life force, so they can only use it for so long before they need to rest. 

I have also been toying with the idea of a Rune Sword- basically an ordinary looking sword with a hole in the crosspiece where you insert the rune and the sword gains the power of that rune.

As for thr Star Wars thing, it does not help that the story takes place on a desert planet.


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## Legendary Sidekick (Aug 4, 2015)

D. Gray Warrior said:


> it does not help that the story takes place on a desert planet.


If it has twin suns…

Nah, I'll keep it serious this time. (I really can't top the Little Mermaid post anyway.)

The only suggestion I'd make is to make sure your magic sword is practical for your world. For example, the rune sword probably works, and might work especially well with that different-magic-on-different-worlds idea suggested earlier… I mean like the rune holds the power of a certain planet, assuming the Notjedis come from more than one world, and the rune from their world allows them to take that magic anywhere. And maybe the more powerful Notjedis can use magic from worlds other than their own.

The sword made of chi doesn't seem as practical as a real sword. However, if the idea is that the Notjedi walk around unarmed and can use their chi to summon a blade of pure light, and with that blade they can cut through hulls of Destroyer Class Starships and form Deflector Shields around themselves when holding the sword in a defensive stance, now the chi sword is more effective than a normal sword and is worth the risk of fatigue or health problems.


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## glutton (Aug 4, 2015)

WooHooMan said:


> If there are guns in the setting, you could have their swords be symbols of authority rather than practical weapons.



Or if your sword wielding characters can move and/or move their swords faster than most gun wielders in the setting can adjust their aim, that can work too.

Remember, you don't need to be faster than a bullet, just faster than the bullet shooter can react to. If you move out of the spot the gunman is aiming at before they can pull the trigger, as long as they don't get the drop on you, you're golden.

In a more fantastically powerful setting, moving faster than bullets would work too though.


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## Reaver (Aug 5, 2015)

If you want to use something like The Force in all its mysterious, ethereal glory I say go for it. Lucas f**ked that whole wondrous thing up with midichlorians. Only a giant piece of bantha poodoo can take something so fantastic and cool and then cheapen it by saying that there's nothing fantastic and mysterious about it at all. 

Make your story anyway you want and don't let outside opinions influence what you write. Every writer steals ideas from other writers. What sets one apart from the other is the manner in which one presents those stolen ideas.

You wouldn't believe how many ideas Legendary Sidekick stole from me. (You know what I'm talking about.)

That's just the nature of the game.


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## T.Allen.Smith (Aug 5, 2015)

Reaver said:


> If you want to use something like The Force in all its mysterious, ethereal glory I say go for it. Lucas f**ked that whole wondrous thing up with midichlorians. Only a giant piece of bantha poodoo can take something so fantastic and cool and then cheapen it by saying that there's nothing fantastic and mysterious about it at all.


This is the first, but certainly not the last time you'll experience Reaver's dislike of the prequels. 



> Make your story anyway you want and don't let outside opinions influence what you write. Every writer steals ideas from other writers. What sets one apart from the other is the manner in which one presents those stolen ideas.


That is right on the money. 

The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources.
- Albert Einstein


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## Reaver (Aug 5, 2015)

T.Allen.Smith said:


> This is the first, but certainly not the last time you'll experience Reaver's dislike of the prequels.



This is true. My disdain for the abominations known as Star Wars Episodes 1-3 have reached folkloric status here.



T.Allen.Smith said:


> That is right on the money.



Thank you T.A.S.  I also want to thank you and Legendary Sidekick for all the ideas I stole from you on several occasions. You're both a font of epic inspiration and I'm eternally grateful.


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## Gurkhal (Aug 5, 2015)

As mentioned skip the lightsabres and probably the Force as well. You can have something inspired by the Force but if you do a straight copy of Star Wars concepts I think that you could come into serious problems, if you're aming to get published.


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## Legendary Sidekick (Aug 5, 2015)

Reaver said:


> Make your story anyway you want and don't let outside opinions influence what you write.


I agree with this. My muscular barbarian girl is a bit like GRRM's Brienne, though I actually created her without thinking of Brienne… as far as I know. GOT season 2 had already happened when I created her in summer 2012, but I didn't read a book with Brienne until summer 2013.

That doesn't stop me from using my character though. It's not as if GRRM has a monopoly on tall, strong women who fight well.



Reaver said:


> You wouldn't believe how many ideas Legendary Sidekick stole from me. (You know what I'm talking about.)


My entertainment lawyer says I don't know what you're talking about. But if, hypothetically, you're referring to _50 Hues of Lightsaber_, we both just need to get over that. The Jedi-themed fanfic romance could have made me rich beyond my second-wildest dream–and if it did, I'd have named you on the "thanks page" right after the epilogue–but that ship has sailed. Into hyperspace.


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## Mindfire (Aug 5, 2015)

Reaver said:


> If you want to use something like The Force in all its mysterious, ethereal glory I say go for it. Lucas f**ked that whole wondrous thing up with midichlorians. Only a giant piece of bantha poodoo can take something so fantastic and cool and then cheapen it by saying that there's nothing fantastic and mysterious about it at all.



That's... not quite accurate. The film never said the midichlorians create the Force or that they _are_ the Force. Just that they multiply in Force-sensitive beings and help communicate the will of the Force. Honestly, the only reason they exist is so the the movie can attach a number value to how much potential Anakin has. It's like power levels in Dragonball Z. It doesn't really mean anything. (Incoming Headcanon) Furthermore, given the decadence and complacency of the Jedi Order at the time, it wouldn't surprise me if the whole midichlorian theory was completely off base. In fact, in-universe Jedi science may have debunked it as early as Episode Two, because midichlorians are never mentioned in the canon films or shows _ever again._


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## Reaver (Aug 5, 2015)

Legendary Sidekick said:


> My entertainment lawyer says I don't know what you're talking about. But if, hypothetically, you're referring to _50 Hues of Lightsaber_, we both just need to get over that. The Jedi-themed fanfic romance could have made me rich beyond my second-wildest dream—and if it did, I'd have named you on the "thanks page" right after the epilogue—but that ship has sailed. Into hyperspace.



Well, to be honest, I stole your Harry Potter fanfic idea where Dumbledore comes out in front of everyone at Hogwarts, tenders his resignation and opens up a B&B in Vermont with Gandalf. Shall we just let bygones be bygones?


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## Reaver (Aug 5, 2015)

Mindfire said:


> In fact, in-universe Jedi science may have debunked it as early as Episode Two, because midichlorians are never mentioned in the canon films or shows _ever again._



You're right, they're never mentioned again. In fact, the story gets more and more ridiculous and cartoonish until this awesome, climactic scene:


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## Mindfire (Aug 5, 2015)

Reaver said:


> You're right, they're never mentioned again. In fact, the story gets more and more ridiculous and cartoonish until this awesome, climactic scene:



That moment was over the top, but I stand by the fact that everything that preceded it was completely awesome. Minus the romance scenes, but I'm not a romance guy.

And really, if you think Star Wars only started getting corny with the prequels, you're kidding yourself.


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## Reaver (Aug 5, 2015)

The genius behind the Star Wars Prequels:


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## Mindfire (Aug 5, 2015)

The guy who made the Star Wars universe also made Jar-Jar. And the genius behind The Land Before Time also created A Troll in Central Park. Your point?


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## Reaver (Aug 5, 2015)

Mindfire said:


> That moment was over the top, but I stand by the fact that everything that preceded it was completely awesome. Minus the romance scenes, but I'm not a romance guy.
> 
> And really, if you think Star Wars only started getting corny with the prequels, you're kidding yourself.



Episodes 4, 5 and 6 may have a few cheesy parts, but nothing outright ridiculous.  Thankfully the animated shows have atoned for the Sins of Lucas. The reason they're so good is that he didn't write or direct any of them.


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## Mindfire (Aug 5, 2015)

Reaver said:


> Episodes 4, 5 and 6 may have a few cheesy parts, but nothing outright ridiculous.



The Empire was defeated by Ewoks.


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## Reaver (Aug 5, 2015)

*OOPS.*


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## Reaver (Aug 5, 2015)

Mindfire said:


> The Empire was defeated by Ewoks.



The Ewoks? They were cannon fodder. A distraction so that Han and the other rebels could destroy the shield generator protecting the Death Star.


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## Legendary Sidekick (Aug 5, 2015)

Hey, hey, hey! Let's not be dissing Wicket and his crew!







+5 rep points to whoever can name the ewok(s) who died.


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## Reaver (Aug 5, 2015)

Oooh! I can! 

Poopee, Krappee, Sh' tee, and Bob.


Doesn't change the fact that they were cannon fodder. Did you know that the word "ewok" is never mentioned in RotJ?


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## Tom (Aug 5, 2015)

Mindfire said:


> In fact, in-universe Jedi science may have debunked it as early as Episode Two, because midichlorians are never mentioned in the canon films or shows _ever again._



For which I am thankful. God I hate midichlorians. Way to ruin the awesome mystery of the Force, George Lucas! Got a powerful, awe-inspiring mystical energy that binds the universe together? Explain that it's really a web created by microscopic symbiotes! Yeah, that's a great idea!


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## Reaver (Aug 5, 2015)

Now that is funny. Thanks Tom! That made my day.


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## Tom (Aug 5, 2015)

You're welcome! 

May the Force be without midichlorians...always.


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## Mindfire (Aug 5, 2015)

Reaver said:


> *OOPS.*


Yeah. Obi-Wan lied to Luke about something. What are the odds? 



Reaver said:


> The Ewoks? They were cannon fodder. A distraction so that Han and the other rebels could destroy the shield generator protecting the Death Star.


They managed to kill an entire detachment of stormtroopers and wreck AT-STs, all with sticks and rocks. Nice try, but no. The Ewoks are ridiculous.


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## Garren Jacobsen (Aug 5, 2015)

Mindfire said:


> Yeah. Obi-Wan lied to Luke about something. What are the odds?
> 
> 
> They managed to kill an entire detachment of stormtroopers and wreck AT-STs, all with sticks and rocks. Nice try, but no. The Ewoks are ridiculous.



The only Imps we know that were killed were the ones that got smashed in the AT-ST, all other imps could have been incapacitated but not necessarily killed by the Ewoks.

Back on topic. One thing that you might want to consider is that since the Jedi were akin to samurai monks try instead of a lightsaber a different more traditional weapon, like a laser bow or a laser spear.


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## Reaver (Aug 5, 2015)

Mindfire said:


> The Empire was defeated by Ewoks.







Mindfire said:


> They managed to kill an entire detachment of stormtroopers and wreck AT-STs, all with sticks and rocks.




Well, which is it? Did they defeat the Empire or did they simply kill a few Stormtroopers and destroy some of their equipment?

Can you show me the scene where an ewok is flying the Millennium Falcon and not Lando?


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## Mindfire (Aug 5, 2015)

Reaver said:


> Well, which is it? Did they defeat the Empire or did they simply kill a few Stormtroopers and destroy some of their equipment?
> 
> Can you show me the scene where an ewok is flying the Millennium Falcon and not Lando?


Being pedantic won't make your stance any less hypocritical.


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## Legendary Sidekick (Aug 5, 2015)

Tom Nimenai said:


> Got a powerful, awe-inspiring mystical energy that binds the universe together? Explain that it's really a web created by microscopic symbiotes! Yeah, that's a great idea!


That IS a great idea. I'm going to create a world in which magic is a gift from nano-goddesses known as "Nose Pixies." They fly up your nose, if you're so fortunate (and trim nose hairs, and clean thoroughly, but without picking or snot-rocketing), and use you as a vessel for exacting justice, but in return giving you the power to do things like heal, do flip jumps while giving a midget a piggyback ride, or make a one-in-million shot with your eyes closed.

Oh, uh… we're on-topic because, uh… we're demonstrating how we use existing ideas as inspiration and that a line exists between inspiration and rip-off. (A line which was crossed, in my purely analytical example, at the midget piggyback ride.) Yup. Totally analytical. That's what I'm telling myself.


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## Reaver (Aug 5, 2015)

For the sake of peace, I'll refrain from commenting further on which trilogy is superior.


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## Reaver (Aug 5, 2015)

Legendary Sidekick said:


> That IS a great idea. I'm going to create a world in which magic is a gift from nano-goddesses known as "Nose Pixies." They fly up your nose, if you're so fortunate (and trim nose hairs, and clean thoroughly, but without picking or snot-rocketing), and use you as a vessel for exacting justice, but in return giving you the power to do things like heal, do flip jumps while giving a midget a piggyback ride, or make a one-in-million shot with your eyes closed.
> 
> Oh, uh… we're on-topic because, uh… we're demonstrating how we use existing ideas as inspiration and that a line exists between inspiration and rip-off. (A line which was crossed, in my purely analytical example, at the midget piggyback ride.) Yup. Totally analytical. That's what I'm telling myself.



Nose pixies. I think Lucas put those in the Special Edition 2.0 Blu Ray.


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## Logos&Eidos (Aug 5, 2015)

Tom Nimenai said:


> For which I am thankful. God I hate midichlorians. Way to ruin the awesome mystery of the Force, George Lucas! Got a powerful, awe-inspiring mystical energy that binds the universe together? Explain that it's really a web created by microscopic symbiotes! Yeah, that's a great idea!



I never new why some people thought that Midis were now The Force, their an antenna at most.


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## Legendary Sidekick (Aug 5, 2015)

Reaver said:


> For the sake of peace, I'll refrain from commenting further on which trilogy is superior.



Mesa thinks the choice is obvi-OBVI-OBVIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

_*slips on banana peel and knocks over a pyramid made of electronic bowling balls which tumble downhill and annihilate an army of Trade Federation droids*_


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## Reaver (Aug 5, 2015)

Logos&Eidos said:


> I never new why some people thought that Midis were now The Force, their an antenna at most.



Midis? These midis are THE FORCE.


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## T.Allen.Smith (Aug 5, 2015)

Well Scribes, I don't want to be that guy that says, "I told you so"....but.....


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## Reaver (Aug 5, 2015)

T.Allen.Smith said:


> Well Scribes, I don't want to be that guy that says, "I told you so"....but.....



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


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## Mindfire (Aug 5, 2015)

Reaver said:


> For the sake of peace, I'll refrain from commenting further on which trilogy is superior.



It's not a matter of "superior". I just accept the canon films and shows as a complete, thoroughly entertaining whole. And you don't.


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## Reaver (Aug 5, 2015)

Mindfire said:


> It's not a matter of "superior". I just accept the canon films and shows as a complete, thoroughly entertaining whole. And you don't.



That's the truth. 

I'd rather watch the following video non-stop with my eyes glued open and my head immobilized with electrodes strapped to my man parts than the prequels.








This has more entertainment value.


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