# GRRM's "A Song of Ice and Fire" Spoiler Free



## Philip Overby (Mar 17, 2013)

This thread is for those who haven't read the entire A Song of Ice and Fire series up until the last book.  If you want to discuss certain books or major plot points please make sure to use *spoiler tags.*

There is a completely different thread that will have no spoiler tags and you are free to discuss whatever you want about the series there.  You can view that here:  http://mythicscribes.com/forums/novels-stories/7713-grrms-song-ice-fire-spoilers.html#post100295


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## Feo Takahari (Mar 17, 2013)

Bear with me--I'll get somewhere with this in a moment.

When I heard about _Madoka Magica_, the people who gushed over it made me want nothing to do with it. They kept talking about how dark and depressing it was, and I wasn't really interested in dark and depressing. Then I encountered a fan who discussed it not as "dark", but as a great show, so I watched it and loved it.

I hear _ASoIaF_ fans talk all the time about how it's dark and gritty and everyone gets raped and dies. I've never been sold on a series on the grounds that everyone gets raped and dies. But there has to be something beyond surface darkness that draws people to this series. Would anyone care to make the case for why I should read it?


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## Kit (Mar 17, 2013)

I wouldn't say "everyone gets raped and dies"... there's definitely a good deal of hardship and conflict, and people die- there are wars and political intrigue and some brutal environments. It's not a quilting bee. I don't find it excessively dark. Some people just don't expect any main characters to die when they read a story, and everything to work out Happily Ever After, and they just can't handle it.

The characterization is sublime. I also like that there are many layers in the story- the casual reader can enjoy it just getting to know interesting people, but there are plenty of deeper questions and issues for the fanatics who can quote every word to discuss.

The many storylines ensure that everyone will find someone to root for.

I also like that there are is moral complexity. Characters that I can't decide if I like them or hate them, situations where I'm not sure what I would have done in that place.


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## Philip Overby (Mar 17, 2013)

I would agree with Kit.  The characterization is what makes the series, not the grittiness or any other surface reason.  People LOVE these characters, and I think that's sole reason enough to enjoy the series.  A lot of people put it down before a lot of really great stuff happens.  Usually people who read A Game of Thrones all the way through will get hooked.  

The moral complexity, as Kit says, is also worth reading for.  There are really times that I hate a character in one scene and love them in the next.  Their decisions are "human" (which is often something the actors who portray the characters in the TV show say, which is true) and therefore may cause readers to think, "Wow, what would I have done in that situation?"  

So, yeah, don't read it because "people get raped and die."  That's not what it's about.  I love it, but others may not for whatever reason.  If you're an overly sensitive reader, then it may bug you.  But if you let go of that, you can enjoy it for what it is:  a great story with great characters.


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## Sheriff Woody (Mar 18, 2013)

Feo Takahari said:


> I hear _ASoIaF_ fans talk all the time about how it's dark and gritty and everyone gets raped and dies. I've never been sold on a series on the grounds that everyone gets raped and dies. But there has to be something beyond surface darkness that draws people to this series. Would anyone care to make the case for why I should read it?



The characters are incredibly well-drawn, plain and simple. 

The story is full of conflict, internal and external, and it's never certain what will happen next. Some situations are hinted at or foreshadowed, and you start to envision how it will play out, and it never plays out as you would expect, which keeps the story constantly engaging. 

And it's just written very well overall.


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