# A question on self-publishing



## SDWallwork (Dec 27, 2013)

My question relates to the effects that self publishing a book my have in relation to submitting the work to another publisher.

To elaborate, if I self publish a work, does this then mean I will run into troubles when submitting the work to another publisher such as copyright problems etc. I know that technically self publishing means that I should still own the entire work but if I use a company such as LuLu to publish a story, will they then have any hold over it if another publisher decides that they would want to buy it?

Sorry if this sounds a little mushed up, I'm new to the whole publishing side of things.

Any help is greatly appreciated.


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## danr62 (Dec 27, 2013)

Yes, you can self publish and submit to the trade houses at the same time. In your query letter or submission it would be good to mention that it is self published.


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## TWErvin2 (Dec 28, 2013)

*SDWallwork*,

danr62's advice is on target.

Also, self-publishing a work will create an additional hurdle (a steep one) to overcome to get your work considered for publication, and it is already a challenging enough endeavor. Your novel will have to be selling very_ very _well for it to be considered. In that case, you might be asking yourself, "Why do I want a publisher for this novel?"

If you do decide to self-publish, I would recommend exploring other printers than Lulu. They provide a good service, but in going through them, a print novel tends to end up costing more for readers to purchase (online for example) than if it were printed by other companies, such as CreateSpace or Lightning Source. A higher retail price will deter potential readers, especially from trying an unknown author. Setting that aside, with self-publishing, most of an authors sales tend to come from ebook versions of a work.


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## SDWallwork (Dec 28, 2013)

Thanks for the help guys, that clears a lot of it up for me  My only thought was to maybe self publish some short stories before I tackle a big novel and if I don't manage to get anything published, then at least I have something to show for my efforts if you understand where im coming from. I've just always wanted to have a physical book that I have written. Maybe that sounds sad but oh well XD


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## Bansidhe (Dec 30, 2013)

The way I currently utilize self-publishing is to offer (for free) companion stories to the novella series I write for my publisher. However, a friend in one of my writing groups self-pubbed her novel while she shopped it through traditional methods. Only after she got an agent and a publisher did she take the book down to be re-released by the publisher. Sites like Smashwords and Createspace are distribution services--they don't own your work. You do.

That being said, last summer I attended a convention panel with Hugh Howey, who recommended a "triangle" of distribution: Kindle (direct or through somewhere like Smashwords) for eBooks, Createspace for print, and ACX for audio. He included the audio side of the triangle because there's apparently something like 4 million truckers out there (no joke) who buy up all the audio books they can snatch up for the road. 

Hope this helps!


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## danr62 (Dec 31, 2013)

From what I hear, you should consider shopping short stories around to various paying markets, and then self publish those stories in collections of your own once the rights revert. Generally short story publishers only want initial publication rights, and you are free to shop them around again for republication, or to self publish, after 90 days or so.


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## SDWallwork (Dec 31, 2013)

Thanks again for the help. Just a few quick questions. I have had a look at 'Kindle direct publishing' through amazon, this looks like a good method to break into the ebook format, just wondering what some of your thoughts may be?

Also, createspace sounds like a good site after taking a look, they say they offer the best prices for self publishing and they seem to come well recommended by several of you guys. My only question is, is it an American company? if so, does it matter that I live in the UK or is it just a case of longer shipping times?

Thanks in advance.


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## danr62 (Dec 31, 2013)

Createspace is owned by Amazon, so yes, it's US but they probably have a UK version like you do of Amazon. 

Amazon KDP is essential if you want to self publish ebooks. It's how you get your books for sale on Amazon. You will probaly also want to sell your books at other sites like Apple Ibooks, Google Play, Nook, Kobo, etc. You have to upload your book to each site that you want to sell it at. Or you can go through Smashwords which will upload your book to a bunch of sites, but will take a small percentage off the top of all earnings before paying you.

It often makes sense to upload your books directly to Amazon and a few of the other big sites directly so that you can get the full royalty and better sales reports, and  then to go through Smashwords for all of the other sites.


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## SDWallwork (Jan 2, 2014)

Thanks for the help Dan, I think I will most probably upload directly to some of the bigger sites like you say and publish hard copies through createspace depending on how the cost is affected by the distance, since I don't think they have a base here in the UK.

Thanks again


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## MichaelSullivan (Jan 4, 2014)

Since I did exactly this...took a self-published work then sold it to the big-five...yes you certainly can. I think now more than ever they are looking at self-publishing as kind of a minor league where they can pull talent from when they see results.  You have to sell well - and it's best if you can sell well at a good price point (I don't think they are as impressed with a $0.99 or free that has a lot of downloads.


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## SDWallwork (Jan 5, 2014)

MichaelSullivan said:


> You have to sell well - and it's best if you can sell well at a good price point (I don't think they are as impressed with a $0.99 or free that has a lot of downloads.



Thanks for your advice Michael. Recently I have been thinking about offering a couple of shorter stories probably about novella length for free as they would be my first 'published works' or if I was to charge for them, it would not be very much. From things I have read, its easier to get your work to more people if its free or cheap, especially if you are a new author, people wont be willing to pay much for a work by someone they do not know.

On that note, I think the best option would be to sell in ebook format to start with as self publishing can be pretty expensive for the reader, and like I say expensive is bad for a new author. The only hard copies I would be getting would be keep sakes for myself. If later down the line I can sell something to an editor then maybe the shorter stories could be published as a collection through their publisher but who knows in this game


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## psychotick (Jan 6, 2014)

Hi SD,

No holding a copy of your own book in your own hand is not sad. It's bloody awesome! One of the biggest thrills I've got as an author in fact.

Cheers, Greg.


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## MichaelSullivan (Jan 7, 2014)

SDWallwork said:


> Thanks for your advice Michael. Recently I have been thinking about offering a couple of shorter stories probably about novella length for free as they would be my first 'published works' or if I was to charge for them, it would not be very much. From things I have read, its easier to get your work to more people if its free or cheap, especially if you are a new author, people wont be willing to pay much for a work by someone they do not know.
> 
> On that note, I think the best option would be to sell in ebook format to start with as self publishing can be pretty expensive for the reader, and like I say expensive is bad for a new author. The only hard copies I would be getting would be keep sakes for myself. If later down the line I can sell something to an editor then maybe the shorter stories could be published as a collection through their publisher but who knows in this game



When I was self-published I was selling for $4.95 - $6.95 and that price point worked for me.  Mitchell Hogan sold a ton of books (5 figures worth) at $7.99 and both of us were unknown.  So don't think you HAVE to go the bottom basement price.  If your stuff is good people will pay for it.  But that being said, yeah many self-publishers do the free/low price point thing and it works for them.  Best thing to do is to play around a bit.


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## Steerpike (Jan 7, 2014)

MichaelSullivan said:


> When I was self-published I was selling for $4.95 - $6.95 and that price point worked for me.  Mitchell Hogan sold a ton of books (5 figures worth) at $7.99 and both of us were unknown.  So don't think you HAVE to go the bottom basement price.  If your stuff is good people will pay for it.  But that being said, yeah many self-publishers do the free/low price point thing and it works for them.  Best thing to do is to play around a bit.



Michael:

I'm getting ready to purchase Book II of the Riyria Revelations in audio form in Audible. I'm curious whether you had the audio version recorded when you were self-publishing the series, or whether that came after you got a traditional publisher. And also how much benefit you feel an author derives from having an audio edition available (in other words, would it be something worth pursuing for those self-publishing if they have the means to do so?).


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## Black Dragon (Jan 7, 2014)

Steerpike said:


> And also how much benefit you feel an author derives from having an audio edition available (in other words, would it be something worth pursuing for those self-publishing if they have the means to do so?).



I'd also love to hear Michael's thoughts on this.


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## Zero Angel (Jan 7, 2014)

If you want to research this practice more, it's called "simultaneous publishing". 

I've been shopping around my self-published math books, but am not at all interested in looking for a publisher for my fiction. Also, it should be noted that you need to try to be rather successful and are using the self-publishing run as a market test to show to traditional publishers. 

KDP is ideal for Amazon, but it is worthwhile to use Smashwords and/or other markets/distributors as well if you are not using the exclusivity deals. For my novella+ length fiction titles, I always publish first on Amazon, use the 90 days exclusivity free promos and sales, and then cancel the exclusivity as I seek expanded distribution through Smashwords.


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## danr62 (Jan 8, 2014)

Steerpike said:


> Michael:
> 
> I'm getting ready to purchase Book II of the Riyria Revelations in audio form in Audible. I'm curious whether you had the audio version recorded when you were self-publishing the series, or whether that came after you got a traditional publisher. And also how much benefit you feel an author derives from having an audio edition available (in other words, would it be something worth pursuing for those self-publishing if they have the means to do so?).



I can't speak for Michael or from experience, but I have heard of a number of self publishers who do quite well in Audio. The great thing is that ACX will help you find narrators, and those narrators can either be paid up front or in royalties, so there doesn't have to be any upfront cost. 

I'm not sure how willing narrators are to accept royalties, though.


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## MichaelSullivan (Jan 9, 2014)

Steerpike said:


> Michael:
> 
> I'm getting ready to purchase Book II of the Riyria Revelations in audio form in Audible. I'm curious whether you had the audio version recorded when you were self-publishing the series, or whether that came after you got a traditional publisher.



Well first off, thanks so much for supporting the book through the purchase of audio versions. I REALLY appreciate it.

So I do phenomenally well in audio...which is both good and bad.  Good because I'm getting a lot of readers, but bad because I had expected it to be so little that I made a really bad deal with regard to the audio rights.

Had I known then what I know now, I would have fought much harder to control these rights.

Basically there are a couple of choices:


 Keep the rights and use ACX - which is how I wish I had gone
 Sell the rights to your publisher and have them find a audio producer - the way I went and the worst of all deals. (They take 50% for doing essentially nothing but signing a paper)
 Keep the rights and sell to an audio producer yourself - will get you twice as much as #2
 Sign with audible.com directly.

The income for each breaks down as follows:

 ACX - exclusive: 50% - 90% of net depending on volume but you'll have to pay the production costs which can be substantial
 ACX - exclusive when married with a production company - 25% - 45% they pay the production costs - but no guarantee you'll be "picked up."
 ACX - non exclusive: 25% - 70% of net depending on volume, you'll have to pay production cost, and will be able to sell/distribute copies in other venues
 ACX - non exclusive when married with a production company - 12.5% - 22.5% they pay the production costs - but no guaranteeyou'll be "picked up." and you will be able to sell/distribute through other places
 Audible.com contract - they pay 20% of net, pickup all production costs, and if your sales are good will throw in some good marketing exposure
 A recording company - they pay 25% of their net which is 35% of audible's net so 8.75% of net
 Your publisher - they pay you 50% of what they get which is 25% of the audio recording company which is getting 35% of what audible pays so 4.375%

I have some titles that have sold so well that if I had gone the ACX route I would be in the 90% royalty category but instead I'm at 4.375%.  VERY PAINFUL.  

I wrote an article on this recently.  You can read more at Amazing Stories


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## MichaelSullivan (Jan 9, 2014)

Steerpike said:


> Michael:  And also how much benefit you feel an author derives from having an audio edition available (in other words, would it be something worth pursuing for those self-publishing if they have the means to do so?).



It really is going to depend on how popular your books are.  For me - yeah as I said audio is really really important...but had I not had an audio version via the publishing contract I would have never known because the amount of money to dot he production would have kept me without one.

My advice is if you get 10,000 print/ebook copies sold then you can consider audio versions.  It is definitely one of those...your milege may vary kind of things.


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## MichaelSullivan (Jan 9, 2014)

danr62 said:


> I can't speak for Michael or from experience, but I have heard of a number of self publishers who do quite well in Audio. The great thing is that ACX will help you find narrators, and those narrators can either be paid up front or in royalties, so there doesn't have to be any upfront cost.
> 
> I'm not sure how willing narrators are to accept royalties, though.



Keep in mind there is more than just the narrator to take into consideration. You also have the recording studio, editing, and mixing...which can be done "on the cheap" but I wouldn't recommend doing so.  I think it really shows in the final product.  If I were to go the ACX route (which I'm sure I will in the near future).  I'll pay for a top narrator and use one of the recording studios with their editors and mastering talent.


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## Caged Maiden (Feb 3, 2014)

@ Michael 

I read your article about audio rights and it was very informative.  You know... I hadn't ever considered that sort of thing, until a friend of mine gave me a free audio book for a review.  I can certainly see how this medium can be addicting.  If there are fans who prefer audiobooks... I'm glad to have your take on the market and learn how your experiences played out.


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## MichaelSullivan (Feb 4, 2014)

@Caged - glad to see you found the article helpful.  I think this right (audio) is going to be increasingly important so certainly one to think carefully about before giving it up.


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