# Could a Traditional Publisher Harm Your Career



## Steerpike (Aug 9, 2012)

Mark Coker argues that eBook pricing by traditional publishers leads to a bit less revenue and a lot fewer readers for an author than would the same books at a $2.99 price point. He believes that as eBooks gain more of the market, it will be harder for traditional publishers to provide enough benefit to authors to offset those differences. of course, Mark Coker is the founder of Smashwords, so he has a dog in the hunt. What do you think:

How a Traditional Publisher Could Harm a Writer's Career - The Digital Reader


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## danr62 (Aug 9, 2012)

There are a lot of authors who agree with these views. Dean Wesley Smith is one of the more outspoken writters on this font.

And royalties and sales volume aren't the only reason he's turned away from trade publishers. It has to do with rights, contracts, and creative control. It's about the lack of accurate sales data and payments that are issued few and far between. It's about the extremely slow to market time for books.

Everything I've been reading about trade publishers makes me think that whatever benefits they provide are not worth the hassle of dealing with these issues.


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## Devor (Aug 9, 2012)

I think it depends on how big you can be.  If a trade publisher can do your marketing, schedule your signings and place your books in WalMart, you can't top that.  We know they play favorites with their authors, sometimes with good reason, and if they're going to ignore you, and leave you to do most of the work yourself, you've made a mistake by using them.  I'm hoping there's an in between, but certainly there's a scale with two ends in terms of the treatment you receive.


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## The Dark One (Aug 10, 2012)

Seriously...are you really going to say no if a big publisher comes calling?

A career in writing is hopefully decades. Obviously, there are exceptions, but the general rule is that the bigger your publisher the greater your cache that can be exploited later...if not now. I've had two books published by two comparatively small commercial publishers - one reasonably successful. That small success has interested agents and bigger publishers. I need a bigger publisher with strong marketing and distribution. The smaller ones don't have that much and self-publishing doesn't have it at all unless you win the 'strange gods of publishing' lottery. (Like 50 Shades)

I recently signed with one of the biggest agents in Australia which ought to increase my prospects a thousand-fold...but the whole industry is in so much flux, I've got no idea whether my 20 years of hard work is going to pay off. Ten years ago I would have been a shoe in with this particular agent.

Now...


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## TWErvin2 (Aug 10, 2012)

Going with a traditional publisher enables an author access to a different set of readers than self-publishing. My experience with a small publisher is that a percentage of those readers who try my books have enjoyed other titles released by my publisher. It's not a huge %, but it's there. I think author brand is far stronger than publisher brand, but it's still a factor. And with a larger publisher, that # of readers possibly attracted can add up.

Pricing is something that I am not sure one can say what works for one title will work for the majority of titles, but I do agree with Mark Kolker that it's better to have a lower price and earn roughly the same while having attracted more readers.

For me, I'm not keen on paying more for an ebook than it costs in mass market paperback. That's my price point, and for a small press/self-pubbed auithor, I'm far less inclined to pay $7.99 than I am $2.99.

The big publishers may be slower to recognize trends, but once they react and get moving in the right direction, they potentially have a momentum that can have an impact.

As far as the Author Solutions discussed, one of the things I've noticed with the few authors I've met who went with them, they seem happy and loyal. Why, I am not sure. But that is part of what the purchase was about. Maybe Penguin will do better for them. I hope so.


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## Devor (Aug 10, 2012)

The Dark One said:


> Seriously...are you really going to say no if a big publisher comes calling?



There's definitely a case for some people saying no to a big publisher, even if the arguments are often exaggerated in both directions.  Royalties are lower, for instance, and they don't price ebooks in your best interest. Their marketing benefits are often exaggerated.  They will pitch your book to stores, but that pitch will last thirty seconds and be buried amid a hundred others.  Many of the people who do well with a publisher do so by doing all the same promotional techniques it would take to do well being self-published.  Plenty of people don't do well, even with a big publisher.


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## Steerpike (Aug 10, 2012)

There has been at least one author who said no to one of the big publishers and self published. I linked the story a few weeks back.


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## Mindfire (Aug 10, 2012)

Doesn't e-publishing actually make it less likely that someone's going to find your book and read it? I mean the e-book pool is HUGE even compared to the traditional book pool, so it'll be even harder to fight for attention. An e-book reader will be sifting through literally billions of books, many of which are likely to be garbage because there isn't really a quality filter in e-publishing, and will probably miss your one voice among the billion others. Also, since e-books are mainly about convenience, I don't see e-book buyers having the same kind of investment/interest/brand loyalty to writers that traditional book buyers do, which makes them less likely to buy sequels, visit your website, etc. This is a bigger problem if you've just started and no one knows who you are.

Granted, I know jack all about publishing. And granted, traditional publishing has these problems as well. But it seems that with e-books those problems are multiplied exponentially, making e-books are a lot harder going, for first-timers especially, when it comes to things like distribution, publicity, marketing, etc.


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## Devor (Aug 10, 2012)

Again, Mindfire, it depends.  If your work is good enough to stand out among a hundred in their catalogue, and you don't know how to handle promotions, then they're probably the way to go.  If your work is for a niche market and you know how to promote yourself online - so that most of your sales will be ebooks anyways - then traditional publishers will only serve to cut into your margins.

There's different ways to succeed, and the most important thing is to find the one that's right for you.


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## Steerpike (Aug 10, 2012)

Devor said:


> Again, Mindfire, it depends.  If your work is good enough to stand out among a hundred in their catalogue, and you don't know how to handle promotions, then they're probably the way to go.  If your work is for a niche market and you know how to promote yourself online - so that most of your sales will be ebooks anyways - then traditional publishers will only serve to cut into your margins.
> 
> There's different ways to succeed, and the most important thing is to find the one that's right for you.



Yep. A year or two ago it would have been a no-brainer for me. Now, if I had something complete that was good enough to sell to a major publisher, I'd have to think about it.


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## Benjamin Clayborne (Aug 10, 2012)

The Dark One said:


> Seriously...are you really going to say no if a big publisher comes calling?



It depends on the terms they come calling with. One of the promises I made myself when I started this was that I would always do it on my own terms. Large publishers tend to want to lock you in with contracts that make demands of you. I don't want anyone making demands of me.

I have a well-paying day job that I enjoy (in a field that is chronically undersupplied with quality workers, meaning that if this job goes away, it will be easy to find another one). If writing doesn't pan out and I can never turn it into a real career, I've still got my tech career.

My dream scenario is that I self-publish and become popular enough that I can then dictate terms to large publishers, but I know it's a dream that may never happen, and that's okay.


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## danr62 (Aug 10, 2012)

If the publishers come calling that means I will already have a brand built up through self publishing, which would give me the freedom to ask for a bigger advance and better terms and send them packing if they aren't able to work with me.

But no, I'm not going to go out of my way to seek them out at this point.


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## JCFarnham (Aug 10, 2012)

I've recently heard of an organisation (Alliance of Indpendant Writers? or something like that, I can't quite find where the article is in the zine at the moment), who are attempting to organise representation for their members. So they have easier access to foreign rights and translation (which they have successfully obtained) and are now looking into film "rights".

So as you can see there are actually groups out there who (for a membership fee) will help you level the playing field. THIS is why it's becoming an increasingly unclear choice, and why traditional publishers need to step up their game...

Or, you know, _co-exist_ with the self-published lot.

Either or


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## T.Allen.Smith (Aug 10, 2012)

It can also come down to current goals. A big 6 traditional publisher, with the right deal can put way more resources behind that marketing effort than most self-published authors could afford. Now, that's not likely to happen for most beginning authors or for writers just starting to build their brand. However, being signed to a traditional house may give you the monetary backing that allows a lot more options for promotion.

I know authors who work with small houses that have marketing budgets nearing $100k, and they aren't yet one of the big names. Imagine, what a big house with a big name puts forward....

My point is, it's not always about royalty rates early on. Often, it's about getting your work out there, in front of the most readers you can & building a professional brand. That's much more difficult and unlikely if your doing this all on your own and with a personal budget.


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## The Dark One (Aug 10, 2012)

T.Allen.Smith said:


> My point is, it's not always about royalty rates early on. Often, it's about getting your work out there, in front of the most readers you can & building a professional brand. That's much more difficult and unlikely if your doing this all on your own and with a personal budget.



That's my point also. I couldn't give a rats about the money at the moment. It's all about building the audience, for which big publishers are still by far the best vehicle. That's not to say it cn't be done in other ways - of course it can.

Also, I'd just like a taste of the big publisher experience.


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## robertbevan (Aug 12, 2012)

The Dark One said:


> Seriously...are you really going to say no if a big publisher comes calling?



honestly, i would have jumped on that shit in half a heartbeat. but i'm happy with the way things are working out now that i've taken the self publishing plunge. i don't know that i would have had as much fun going the traditional route as i'm having right now.

congratulations on landing that agent, dark one. good luck.


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## boboratory (Aug 18, 2012)

"Never mind that an indie author earns more per $2.99 unit sold ($1.80-$2.10) than a traditionally published author earns at $9.99 ($1.25-$1.75)." - So, Mr. Coker, how much of that $2.10 does the indie author have to spend on adwords, or flyers, or bookmarks, or other promotional expenses to try and stand out, and reach the amazing sales goals that your charts so eloquently paint?

You're provided data sets hardly paint an accurate picture for a writer who has not been blessed with name recognition to see how their books will  genuinely expect to sell if the author places no investment into marketing beyond friends and family.

His data is also skewed by his networks rapid growth in terms of number of different book available, and how many more are available at a given price point- ie. if there are 200,000 books through his service available at $2.99, and only 50,000 available at $9.99, which do you suppose will show more sold copies? and if people are adding 100,000 new books a month at $2.99, but only 25,000 at $9.99, then how is that an accurate assessment of the viability of price points based on the numbers Mark presents? His chart says he just uses a pool of 1 million titles sold, not that he looks at the top 10 sellers in each price point, or a similar way to even the data set.

If you click through to the presentation he gave in Chicago in April- He himself says that it is unclear if authors that change their sales price legitimately see an increase in sales. Also in that presentation he indicates that there are 4 times as many books available at the $2.99 price point than the $9.99 price point.

People will pay what they perceive is a good value for a title, be that $2.99, $6.99 or more- IF the book is a good book. eBooks remove just ONE of the fixed costs in the production of a book, the assumption that somehow all books should now be free or low cost is not altogether realistic. 

Being with a major publisher isn't going to stop you from promoting your book just as much as you would if you had self published it. It's going to allow you to leverage that relationship to build trust in your readers, assuming your readers know and trust the publisher name. It's also going to avail you of tools and some opportunities you would not have had on your own.

Mark wants you to use his service. This is his pitch why you should. I think it's heavy handed and a little alarmist, but it's still his job to help you understand the benefits of the service he offers.

Full Disclosure: I do use Smashwords and others and like the Smashwords service (mostly). As a small publisher, I advise all my authors that if a large publisher comes calling, that they need to make sure to answer the phone/door/email/text/smoke signal and do what is best to move their writing, and it's exposure, forward.


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## Devor (Aug 20, 2012)

boboratory said:


> So, Mr. Coker, how much of that $2.10 does the indie author have to spend on adwords, or flyers, or bookmarks, or other promotional expenses to try and stand out, and reach the amazing sales goals that your charts so eloquently paint?



That's just the thing.  Is it really much different for many - most - of the authors who go through traditional publishers?  I know they will briefly pitch your book to outlets and list you in their catalogs.  But do they do anything to help you stand out if it doesn't catch on?

I'm very much under the impression that those who do well with traditional publishers do the same things to promote their books as those who do well with indie publishers or with self-publishing.

I'm worried that people are getting a false impression that someone else would be taking care of everything by using traditional publishers.


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## The Dark One (Aug 21, 2012)

Devor said:


> I'm worried that people are getting a false impression that someone else would be taking care of everything by using traditional publishers.



You've still (especially if you're an unknown) got to work your butt off to take advantage of the huge opportunity you've been given when published by a mainstream publisher...by which I mean any publisher with a standard distribution arrangement who will get your book into lots of shops. You only get 6 - 12 weeks to make a splash or your book will vanish back into the slush from whence it came. I've done all of the following since my first book came out:

- get myself invited onto radio programs
- start websites
- offer to write articles (for free and for money...mostly for free) for magazines whose readers might be interested in my novel. (I am now a regular on two national magazines - I don't get paid but they advertise my novel for free.)
- get myself interviewed in magazines and local newspapers 
- organised a local launch which I paid for myself 
- organised for review copies to be sent out (the publisher had almost no marketing budget, but they have been generous in providing review copies wherever I asked for them to be sent)
- become active in the local writing association - writing articles, blogs and reviews
- talked to everyone under the sun about my book at every reasonable opportunity (without boring people or hassling them).

There's probably a fair bit of other stuff but that's what leaps straight to mind and it's been two years now. The book has been reasonably successful - the publisher's made a small profit and I have made a small dent in the marketplace in Australia. But if I hadn't worked so hard (especially writing so many free articles for the magazines) I wouldn't have sold half as many books and I'd bet the book would no longer be on shelves anywhere.


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## Christopher Wright (Aug 21, 2012)

I'm pretty solidly in the self-publishing camp, but... a traditional publisher will not harm your career. Unless they have a clause in their contract forbidding you from ever doing anything by yourself, ever again (which, um, they probably won't do, and if they do you should not sign) then there's nothing stopping you from self publishing.

It also opens a few doors self publishing never will. For example, I will never be eligible for membership in SFWA (Science Fiction/Fantasy Writers of America) because I don't sell professionally according to SFWA's standards of "professionally." And SFWA is a  pretty good group to be a member of if you can manage it.

It also makes you eligible for those funny awards like Hugos and Nebulas and... the other ones I can't remember right now.

None of the above things will hurt your career. They will, in fact, probably help it.

I'm still self-pubbing though.


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