# Mixing POV and Narrative Mode



## ProfessorBrainfever (Jun 15, 2012)

So, I started writing my first novel. I'm about 8,000 words in, and what I've written so far has been in first-person.

Then the other night I went on a podcast and work-shopped the idea. I got a lot of great ideas for improving my characters and plot...but I think I have to change the POV and narrative mode to make it work. 

Here's my question, though: how do you feel about the mixing of POV and narrative mode within the same story? Can I do some chapters from third-person and others from first? Can I do first-person for different characters in different chapters? Can I mix and match?

I think what I'm going to do is write the rest in third-person and go back after I finish and rewrite the first 8K the same way. But I'd love everyone's thoughts on whether mixing 'works' or not.


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## Chilari (Jun 15, 2012)

I can't think of any published works where I've seen third and first person mixed, but I have tried it myself once before. I didn't feel that it worked. I have seen double first person in a published novel before, but quickly got confused as to which character had done what. To make that work, you'd need characters with vastly different character voices.

Have you considered using third person throughout? You can use close, mind-reading third person for the bits about your protagonist and omnipresent third person for the bits your protagonist doesn't know about. It would be a less jarring change.


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## ProfessorBrainfever (Jun 15, 2012)

That's what I think I'll be doing, Chilari. Just mildly annoying that it means I have to rewrite what I already have. But thems the breaks! And better it happens now than later.


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## T.Allen.Smith (Jun 15, 2012)

You don't want to mix your POV style. It's just too jarring for the reader. The last thing you want to do as a writer is make the reader notice the writing itself. It takes them out of the story which will eventually cause them to put your book down.

If your considering using more than one 1st person POV, be careful. This can also be a distraction for the reader. Typically 1st person is written from one POV only. Occasionally you will see a story with more than one but the 2nd isn't added until deep into the story.

I have seen tenses mixed within POV but that's about it.


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## bbeams32 (Jun 15, 2012)

Patrick Rothfuss effectively mixes POV and narrative in his Kingkiller Chronicles, but the first person chapters are only from the protagonist's point of view.


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## Steerpike (Jun 15, 2012)

ProfessorBrainfever:

The answer (and this may seem like I'm stating the obvious) is "yes," you can do this, so long as you do it effectively. I've purchased books that include both first person and third person POV in the same novel (using different viewpoint characters with each), and they've worked quite well. Some have been fairly popular, I think. So there is no prohibition on this sort of thing.

Honestly, the general answer above applies to any stylistic question you might have.


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## Christopher Wright (Jun 15, 2012)

Here's a trick that I find useful in a lot of the arts. It will not win over everyone, but it will help.

If you're going to do something like that, come up with a style specifically for first person and a style specifically for third person. Try to make the styles different yet complementary--let the first person perspective do things narratively that third person isn't allowed to do and vice-versa. This allows both to contribute directly to the overall story, helps them fit together in the big picture, and provides another clue to the reader about what's going on.

For example, let's say your protagonist is an unreliable narrator. He lies to himself, to his friends, and to the reader. You could make a rule that in first person, the explanations he gives to the reader about his motivations are ALWAYS some variation of a lie, and he only provides them after he's made the decision--any scene where he has to make a specific decision is always told in third person omniscient, and must occur first. So the third person narrator would tell the reader what actually happened, and then after switching to first person the protagonist would lie to the audience about why he's doing what he's doing. The audience, however, would already know the truth, so his explanations would be character development--the audience would see just how willing he was to come to the truth in each situation.

Basically, if you're going to do it, put a spotlight on it, surround it with a marching band, climb to a mountain and shout it out. You know, *OWN* it. You'll still have people who will hate it -- believe me, there will be people who will HATE it -- but by lampshading it you'll also win people over who would otherwise not like it at all.


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## T.Allen.Smith (Jun 15, 2012)

bbeams32 said:
			
		

> Patrick Rothfuss effectively mixes POV and narrative in his Kingkiller Chronicles, but the first person chapters are only from the protagonist's point of view.



I don't think this is correct. It's quite possible I'm forgetting another POV character though.

From what I remember he doesn't mix POV. It's all first person. He does however mix tenses. This is the work I was referring to above. Shifting tenses from talking about past events to events taking place in the present at the inn.


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## T.Allen.Smith (Jun 15, 2012)

Now that I think about it there was another POV in 3rd person. Bast at the end of book 2 but only very briefly and as a mechanism to close the book.

Any others besides that?


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## Steerpike (Jun 15, 2012)

T.Allen.Smith said:


> I don't think this is correct. It's quite possible I'm forgetting another POV character though.
> 
> From what I remember he doesn't mix POV. It's all first person. He does however mix tenses. This is the work I was referring to above. Shifting tenses from talking about past events to events taking place in the present at the inn.



I think that is right (if I remember correctly).

There are, however, published works that switch between various POVs, like first person and third person in the same book, or even third person and second person in the same book. I've ready plenty of them that were done well and the POV shifts worked just fine.


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## Steerpike (Jun 15, 2012)

By way of examples:

Edenborn, by Nick Sagan - first, second, and third person POVs all used in the same novel, depending on viewpoint character.

House of Night Series, by PC and Kristin Cast - first person and third person POVs used, depending on viewpoint character.

Another book I read a while back that I can't recall the name of (I'll have to look it up), which was kind of a near-future police thriller. First person POV until the first person viewpoint character was killed, then picked up with a new viewpoint character in third person.

House of Leaves, by Mark Z. Danielewski, does all kinds of unconventional things, including having sections in the first-person viewpoint and others that are more third person.

These are just the ones that come to mind. I know I've read quite a few more of them.


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## bbeams32 (Jun 16, 2012)

T.Allen.Smith said:


> I don't think this is correct. It's quite possible I'm forgetting another POV character though.
> 
> From what I remember he doesn't mix POV. It's all first person. He does however mix tenses. This is the work I was referring to above. Shifting tenses from talking about past events to events taking place in the present at the inn.



All of the inn sequences are in third person. The entire beginning of Name of the Wind up until the end of chapter 7 is third person and the first 2 of Wise Man's Fear. The interlude chapters interspersed through both books are also in third person as well as both epilogues. It is only in first person during chapters Kvothe is actively speaking his story to the Chronicler.


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## T.Allen.Smith (Jun 16, 2012)

You are correct. Rothfuss does it quite well.


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