# Which Books Most Help Your Writing?



## Devor (Oct 9, 2013)

Let's say, hypothetically, you want to be a fantasy author but a demon pops out, wipes your brain of every book you've ever read, and declares that you may only read a dozen books, ever.

Which 12 books would be the best for helping you write?  And more importantly, what part of your writing does each book help you to improve on?

As part of the challenge, a series like LOTR or ASOIAF would count as just one book if there's an ongoing central plot, but only if you ignore length as a factor.  You can't name a series just to have more books to read.  If anyone dares to broaden the horizon, a movie, TV show, or a web comic may also count as a story - for instance, you might name the Order of the Stick web comic instead of Pratchett to help improve your ability to write comedy.


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## Sparkie (Oct 9, 2013)

Thinking this over.  I'll be back tonight with a list.


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## Penpilot (Oct 9, 2013)

In no particular order

John Berger, Photocopies - this is a more literary book of short stories, which can be a bit boring if not in the right mindset, but it can teach you how to create atmosphere that draws you in without the need for long or complex words. The language is simple but engaging.

JM Coetzee, Disgrace - Examining this book can show you how to write a book about an issue and how to subtle set up situations that embody the situation and bring understanding to the reader. Cormac McCarthy's No Country For Old Men novel and movie do the same thing.

Neil Gaiman, American Gods - Almost any of Gaiman's novels will do, but his books bring a sense of wonder along with them, and he accomplishes while bending the rules. There have been times where I've stopped reading and said "hey, he's breaking a rule" but I didn't care because I was entertained and engaged. 

ASOIAF - A good exploration into how to create complex characters, exploring the nature of good and evil, and the brutality of war.

Elmor Lennard, Get Shorty - Like Gaiman, any of his books will do. Shows you that you don't need big words to engage the reader or to create unique character voice.

Ernest Cline, Ready Player One and SM Stirling, any of his books - Many people love these books, but I do not, reason being they are full of BS that they want the reader to ignore. To me, these are stories told badly but seem to have some sort of magic at their core that draws people to them. Use these as examples of books that have great hooks, but poor execution.

From TV, Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Gilmour Girls. Examples of great dialogue and humor.

Breaking Bad - Shows you how to change characters from one extreme to the other, without loosing the essence of who that character is.


It's not 12, but it's all I got off the top of my head.


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## Devor (Oct 9, 2013)

Penpilot said:


> It's not 12, but it's all I got off the top of my head.



That's fine, I wasn't expecting anyone to have twelve.  I'm kind of hoping people will get specific with why they're picking books and might start discussing which books are better if you want to focus on dialogue or pacing or certain types of protagonists or whatever reason a particular book might be picked.


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## Pythagoras (Oct 9, 2013)

The Lord of the Rings.
The Poetic Edda
The Prose Edda
H.G. Wells' Outline of History
The Illiad
The Odyssey
American Gods by Neil Gaiman
All Quiet on the Western Front
Goethe's Faust
The Bible
The Silmarillion
Joseph Campbell's Hero With a Thousand Faces

Just off the top of my head.


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## Pythagoras (Oct 9, 2013)

Most of these books deal with the great story of humanity from different perspectives. Tolkien wrote his own in that vein, Wells wrote the actual story of the people, Campbell analyzed it, Gaiman put the characters into a modern context, and Remarque reminds me that war is not a game, which I think is important to remember when writing about the great struggle of mankind. Of course, these are all tentative and can likely be easily replaced with a bit of thought (except Tolkien).


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## Pythagoras (Oct 9, 2013)

(The Eddas are also set in stone for me)


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## Chilari (Oct 9, 2013)

1. The Aeneid, Virgil. Epic poem. I was debating between this and the Homers, but I'll go with this one because of its propaganda and the way it draws on the Odyssey. And I'm going with the Penguin edition that has explanatory notes. It's an ancient work of fiction that spans across three times - that of Aeneas, that of Homer, and that of Virgil. It's got some serious symbolism, themes of the power of fate overriding what is desired by various parties, a sense that one person doesn't have control over their own life because of the desires and needs of other people (including gods and goddesses), and it's got some great battles and supernatural challenges, drawing upon both the Greek and the Roman traditions.

2. Twelfth Night, Shakespeare. Play. Shipwreck, cross-dressing, mistaken identity, love triangles, ridiculous yellow stocking-wearing individuals, comedy, drunks, and everything turning out for the best in the end. Fantastic storytelling and some enduring themes.

3. The Lord of the Rings, Tolkien. Novel in three volumes. For fantasy, utterly vital. It's got the hero's journey, it's got varied and itneresting characters who each have a different, important part of play, whose personalities take them on very different arcs. Plus a true lesson in worldbuilding and giving culutres depth. Also Samwise is best character.

4. Nation, Terry Pratchett. Novel. I thought about this for a while, because there's a lot in Discworld that would be invaluable, but Nation is the first book I ever read that made me forget I was Alice Leiper reading a book at 2am on a school night, and became so engrossed in the story that the story was all there was for over an hour. It's a powerful story of loss, the meeting of cultures and the struggle to understand one another, and it is so well written that it would be a masterclass on engrossing prose.

5. Howl's Moving Castle, Diana Wynne Jones. Novel. What, you think I'd miss my favourite book ever off this list? It's got really great characters, very believable, flawed characters whose flaws are a driving force for the plot, and it has some of the staples of fantasy - witches and wizards, spirits, magical battles, a king, a magical portal to another world. Plus it's funny and layered and clever and sweet.

6. The Broken Empire series, Mark Lawrence. Trilogy of novels. Sometimes fantasy is dark. This series presents a far harsher moral landscape than some of my above suggestions, where good people win and bad people lose; here is presented the idea encapsulated at the start of the movie Chronicles of Riddick: sometimes evil must be combatted by another evil. At the same time, it's got some amazing organic character growth from the protagonist, plus undead, fire magic, dream magic and a little sci-fi thrown in, and at the core a theme fantasy often has shaping stories: conflicts within families and the way family members feel about one another - a very human condition writ large on the page and given the kinds of stakes that our own family lives never see.

7. The Liveship Traders trilogy, Robin Hobb. Trilogy of novels. As with Pratchett, I struggled to select which of Hobb's works to pick, but this, I think, is the one. It's got adventure, strange creates and magics, stunning and strange locations, complex politics, remarkable character arcs and relationships between characters that mesh very strongly indeed in terms of the influences characters have on one another and the web of network going beyond just one family.

8. Avatar: The Last Airbender. TV serial. While a kid's show, Avatar deals with some quite serious topics sensitively and provokes a strong emotional response. It's a fun show, with some genuine comedy in it, but a lot of seriousness too. It's got the traditional elements of fantasy including a fight against evil and elemental magic, but outside the normal European-esque settings. But most important at all, it's got one of my favourite character arcs in fiction: Zuko. He's had a tough life and his ways of coping with his exile and injury, and coming to his own conclusions about what's the right thing to do and how to do it, and it looks like he's going to come good and do the right thing at so many points but he doesn't, quite naturally within the context of his character, until he's reached the conclusion of what he needs to do naturally and at his own pace, without nudging from Iroh. That's a powerful arc, and the way it is treated actually really opened my eyes to this kind of arc where someone who begins bad ends up good. It's not an obvious or easy choice for Zuko, and it shouldn't be for anyone else either, no matter how obvious it is to the author or how much you want it.

That's all I've got at the moment, but I may yet add another four.


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## Sparkie (Oct 10, 2013)

1.  _The Christian Bible (any version.)_  This is a bit of a cheat here, since the Holy Scriptures are a collection of 66 different texts and there is some debate as to whether a common theme runs throughout, but nonetheless I place it above all other works.  I think you can make a *literary* argument that there is no more important book for an aspiring author to read, particularly if they want to write fantasy.  Reading this book cover to cover (more than once) has helped my writing probably more than any other.

2.  _Myths and Legends of Ancient Greece and Rome - E. M. Berens._  There are a number of nonfiction books readily available on this subject, but I prefer this one because of how concise it is.  In order to write fantasy, I believe it is important to recognize that fantasy storytelling did not start with Tolkien.  People have used fantasy in storytelling for thousands of years.  Books such as these show the effect that fantasy has had on history and literature in an easy to understand way.  (Keeping in mind that the Greeks didn't invent fantasy either, it's best to mention that other mythologies are worth studying as well.  One may also want to try studying ancient works of fantasy such as The Epic of Gilgamesh or Beowulf.)

3.  _The Lord of the Rings - J.R.R. Tolkien._  Chilari well sums up the importance of reading this set of books, so I won't expound here.  For modern readers, this trilogy can prove to be something of a letdown.  Some say it's too archaic.  Still, I believe there's a lot of life left in both the story and the language.  If you're having trouble reading it, persevere.  It's worth it.

4.  _The First Law - Joe Abercrombie._  I feel that, as the years go on, more and more attention will be paid to Abercrombie's work, and this series in particular.  It's the visual, visceral style that he writes with, as well as overall theme and tone, that will resonate ever truer with fans and critics alike.

5.  _The Sandman - Neil Gaiman._  I choose this series of comic books over Gaiman's novels partly because of the collaborative nature of the medium.  Gaiman relied on his artists to tell parts of the story that could only be conveyed in a visual sense, and it worked to great effect.  This work always reminds me that even though writing can be a lonely pastime, one does not do well working alone all the time.  Share your work with others and let them have input on it.  You may not be writing the next great graphic novel, but you can let someone weigh in on your work from time to time.

6.  _Star Wars - Episodes 4-6_  Yes, this is fantasy, not science fiction.  By setting this grand fantasy in space, George Lucas tapped into the great unknown and showed us the possibilities within our own minds.  In _2001: A Space Odyssey,_ Stanley Kubrick chose not to show aliens because 'they were impossible to know.'  Star Wars, on the other hand, showed the aliens to us in so many conceivable forms that it fits almost any idea of extraterrestrial life.  Imagination rules the day in these movies, while keeping us somewhat grounded by showing us a 'used universe' type of setting.  What's happened to the franchise since the mid-80's has drawn the ire of some, but few can deny the power of those first few films in terms of cultural impact.

Well, that's half a list.  I'm running out of time, so the rest will have to wait for later.


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## Philip Overby (Oct 10, 2013)

I'll throw some out there.

1. _Legend of Huma_ by Richard A. Knaak. I wouldn't be a writer at all without this book. This what introduced me to the Dragonlance world of which I later become more immersed as time goes on. This book showed me that knights weren't always good guys and dragons weren't always evil, which is what I thought beforehand. I think this book still holds up for me today. I probably read it 15 years ago.

2. _Warhammer_ Series of books. I haven't actually read much of Warhammer, but I love their aesthetic. It's take no-prisoners fantasy with all manner of craziness that doesn't take place in more "normal" fantasy. I particularly liked what I've read of Gotrek and Felix. I love the idea of a hunter who has a deathwish so he plunges into the most terrifying situations possible.

3. _The Witcher_ Series of books. I love Andrzej Sapkowski's approach to writing. He has dialogue heavy writing for the most part but still manages to paint a vivid fantasy world by relying on a lot the common tropes seen, but of course spinning them in his own way. 

4. _Breaking Bad_ TV show. Not a book, but it's been highly influential as of late. I'll echo what Penpilot said. An excellent way to see how to develop characters in new and interesting ways without making it seem unpredictable just to be unpredictable. Also a great blend of comedy and tragedy. 

5. _The First Law_ Series of books. If any writer is after my heart it's Joe Abercrombie. He writes the kind of fantasy I wish I could write. However, I don't want to be a hack or a rip-off, so I just admire what he does as I try to forge my own path. His writing is a perfect blend of everything I love about fantasy: witty, at times funny, at times dark, at times extremely dark, but always engaging with a great cast of characters.

6. _Dragonlance/Forgotten Realms_ Series of books. I know I mentioned _Legend of Huma_ before and that falls under Dragonlance, but I have to also mention that Margaret Weis, Tracy Hickman, and R.A. Salvatore dominated my high school years. These were adventure stories that kept me interested the whole time. I haven't read any of these in a while, but I still clearly remember Drizzt Do'urden, Raistlin Majere, and Tasslehoff Burrfoot. That's something I can't say for a lot of books I've read since. If one thing is true, these books resonated with me.

7. _The Green Mile_ This is one of the few books, and definitely the first, to make me cry. I just love this book and I couldn't put it down. I think the fantasy elements really brought this one home for me, but also the painting of each of these convicts and their individual stories really engaged me throughout.

8. _A Song of Ice and Fire_. Series of books. I can't say any other series has effected me as much as this series. George R.R. Martin just paints everything perfectly, especially in the first three books. For epic fantasy, I haven't seen anything executed as well as the books in my mind. At times brutal and heart-wrenching, but it always keeps you going.

9. _Malazan Book of the Fallen_. Series of books. While I'm only on the third book of Steven Erikson's sprawling epic, it is one thing I love about fantasy: it's unconventional. I'm hard pressed to find a writer that does what Erikson does. His writing is sometimes poetic, sometimes as harsh, but it always comes out beautiful in the end for me. High-powered fantasy that doesn't feel like anything else in the genre at the moment.

10. _Robert E. Howard's stories_. While I've only read a handful of Howard's stories, I'm admittedly a huge fan of what I have read. Conan is a seminal character in fantasy fiction and one I've been captivated by for a long time. Perhaps Conan's iconic nature is why I am so intrigued by him, but I also am interested in Solomon Kane and other Howard creations. The fact that Howard only lived to be 30 is still mind-boggling to me. If he wouldn't have taken his own life, he may very well be the measuring stick by which all fantasy is still measured today. 

So I've only got ten, but maybe I'll think of others later.


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## Chilari (Oct 10, 2013)

Sparkie said:


> 2.  _Myths and Legends of Ancient Greece and Rome - E. M. Berens._  There are a number of nonfiction books readily available on this subject, but I prefer this one because of how concise it is.  In order to write fantasy, I believe it is important to recognize that fantasy storytelling did not start with Tolkien.  People have used fantasy in storytelling for thousands of years.  Books such as these show the effect that fantasy has had on history and literature in an easy to understand way.  (Keeping in mind that the Greeks didn't invent fantasy either, it's best to mention that other mythologies are worth studying as well.  One may also want to try studying ancient works of fantasy such as The Epic of Gilgamesh or Beowulf.)



I'd go for Apollodorus' The Library of Greek Mythology, personally. Original source and all that. Though a detailed book drawing from several sources including case paintings and plays would be valuable...


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