# Fear of "Haters"



## Ice Spider (Mar 28, 2012)

Personally, I'm not the least bit afraid of rejection letters. Everyone gets those. Honestly, I wouldn't care if no mainstream publisher ever accepted me, so long as I showed my work to other people and I saw they got some genuine enjoyment out of it.

But when I see people slamming an author, not for his/her book being of poor quality, but personally, it hurts me too. They don't even know the person, never met them at all...they could be totally decent, but will fall to personal insults and act if they've committed some kind of moral sin for daring to publish their work. I'm not saying I'd ever achieve the level of fame most of these authors have, of course (let's face it, a lot of the backlash tends to be from jealousy...there are a lot of wannabe writers in the fantasy crowd), but the thought of that being _me_ is one of the most discouraging and terrifying roadblocks in my writing ambitions. Like I said, I'm not the least bit afraid of people not liking it, much less publishers rejecting it. But I have this weird (maybe narcissistic) feeling that if I publish my books this is going to come my way.

Of course, I realize this probably won't happen to me for the sheer fact I'm not likely to ever become very famous (even if I thought I was super talented the chances of any of us getting published would still be slim), but the thought of being a laughing stock terrifies me. I certainly don't think I've never written anything good, but I mean, I'm just going to honest...I'm no George R.R. Martin. I like to _think_ I'm not a Paolini either, but just going off sheer odds I'm probably more towards that side of the spectrum. I'm just a fantasy nerd who loves writing with all his heart...maybe a little too much for my own good... 

This is where feedback comes in I guess...I wanna put my stuff through the refiner's fire before I let any publisher get their hands on it, or even before I epublish it...just to make absolutely sure I'm not totally deluded if it really is a piece of crap. The problem is I'm not sure how many people who aren't close friends or family to sit through an 70 - 80 000 page novel...and publishers aren't likely to go into much depth with rejection letters...

If this sounds overly negative, I don't think it is really...I still have a love for crafting stories and even if I never choose to let it see the light of day writing still gives me a lot of joy. And you can't help but feel a little personal pride when you finish a novel, no matter how bad it is.  But I'd like to have the courage to publish it and allow others to read it... 

Can anyone relate/give advice?


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## Amanita (Mar 28, 2012)

I think everyone of us is worried that our work will not be really good and that readers won't like. I'm sure we're all going to have some readers who don't like it because all people are different. That doesn't mean that it's bad however. There are many famous and surely well-done books I don't like. I've never made it past the first chapters of "A Song of Fire and Ice" for example. Pointing out the negative aspects of a work you don't like in discussions is a normal thing I believe. This doesn't mean the book is actually bad but it means that it didn't appeal to this specific person, me in this case. 

Most authors for whom I've seen actual "haters" are those who've sold plenty of copies of their work such as Stephanie Meyer or Terry Goodkind. As you probably all now, these people also have large numbers of avid fans. Their books receive different reactions from different people but this doesn't have to be a bad thing. 
If you've made it to this point, you'll have to deal with all the implications of being famous, positive and negative. It's not very likely that this is going to happen to one of us though. 
Less famous authors usually don't receive this kind of reaction even though I have to admit that I'm wondering why some absolutely bad books have been published while so many interesting ideas I see on forums never go anywhere.
I don't think this should keep us from trying. If we get a new job or join any new group, it's always possible that we're ending up being bullied. Does this mean, we should stay at home and avoid meeting any new people? Absolutely not. And most of the time, this is not going to happen.

Still, I'm considering the use of a penname myself, if a story of mine should ever get published. This can be helpful to keep personal life and authoral life apart. In my case, there are other reasons too. My parents have managed to combine one of the absolutely most common German last names with the most popular female first name of my year. 
The combination is so utterly boring that it would probably put people off from buying a fantasy book with my name on it.


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## Ice Spider (Mar 28, 2012)

Thanks for the reply! Yeah, I know what you mean about the pen name. My first and last name are both really common. My initials sound pretty cool though (not to mention fantasy-ish) so I've thought of publishing under them perhaps, or just using a pen name. Like you also said, I think it would be nice to keep my personal and authorial life separate.

I guess it's comfort knowing that (as we've said) this only really happens to authors who are famous...which isn't likely to be us. A lot of self-published ebooks that have got four stars on Amazon I've skimmed through samples of and not really liked. Maybe people's are standards are lower when it comes to that kind of thing? But I think more likely it's a lack of jealousy. People don't rip on Meyer because they didn't like Twilight...they rip on her because they think it's a bad book _and_ she's famous and they're not. They read negative character traits into her that aren't there and stoop to making personal insults against _her_ instead of her books (which I did find to be quite bad...). No one is jealous of an unknown, even if they don't like the book. Our obscurity protects us.


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## Caged Maiden (Mar 28, 2012)

Simply put..... there are no ways to please all people.  The more people know about a book and have read it, the more opinions there will be (and the more money the author will have made).  If your work is written to please you, which mine is, you can do anything you want.  You might want to ask yourself whether it's worth publishing, in that the door would then be open for any ass in the world to comment on.  If having someone speak unkindly about your art will hurt too much, you might consider leaving those most personal and favorite works unpublished and only for you, and start something tomorrow that you are less attached to and aim it at your target audience.  

I am not attached to my work, and I can hack it up without remorse, but that probably isn't the case will most people.  Don't feel self-conscious about your concerns, you are most assuredly not alone.  Just think about how you can solve these feelings.


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## Ireth (Mar 28, 2012)

Ice Spider said:


> People don't rip on Meyer because they didn't like Twilight...they rip on her because they think it's a bad book _and_ she's famous and they're not.



I couldn't really care less how famous Meyer is; it doesn't change the fact that the Twilight series is (in my opinion) four volumes of crap. Haven't read the tie-in novella, so I don't have an opinion on that one. I did read her other book, The Host, and quite liked it, so I know Meyer CAN at least write well. I just wish the Twilight books were of the same quality.


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## Anders Ã„mting (Mar 28, 2012)

To quote the Internet:


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## Telcontar (Mar 28, 2012)

Everyone famous enough to have such vitriol directed at them has _at least_ one dedicated, hard-core fan for every detractor. Usually more - and no matter how many 'haters' you have, you can probably still cry your way to the bank.

In other words, may such problems rain down upon me.


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## Ice Spider (Mar 28, 2012)

anihow said:


> Simply put..... there are no ways to please all people.  The more people know about a book and have read it, the more opinions there will be (and the more money the author will have made).  If your work is written to please you, which mine is, you can do anything you want.  You might want to ask yourself whether it's worth publishing, in that the door would then be open for any ass in the world to comment on.  If having someone speak unkindly about your art will hurt too much, you might consider leaving those most personal and favorite works unpublished and only for you, and start something tomorrow that you are less attached to and aim it at your target audience.
> 
> I am not attached to my work, and I can hack it up without remorse, but that probably isn't the case will most people.  Don't feel self-conscious about your concerns, you are most assuredly not alone.  Just think about how you can solve these feelings.



I write mostly for myself, yeah. The novel I'm finishing right now I'm not sure if I'll release, just because it's so dear to me. But if if enough RL people read it and actually liked it I might consider putting it out there. As you can probably tell, if I were to be honest, there _is_ some fear of having people speak unkindly about my art. At least the ones that are the most personally meaningful to me. But that's not what I'm really afriad of...

The real fear, for me, is the personal attacks that somtimes get hurled at you. I think, certain works aside, I have a thick enough skin to deal with criticism. I'd actually appreciate it...it would help me get better I'm sure, or at the very least probably wouldn't make me worse. But there are a lot of people who stoop to personal insults, or at least something that approaches it, less along the lines of "this is bad" than "how dare you!"  Of course I know this probably won't happen, but it does make me a little nervous about publishing it. I really don't know how good a judge I am of my own work. I could be good, I could be terrible. If ontop of all this the story has strong emotional significance for you (as some, but not all of my work does), and you hear quite a few people personally insulting you for bringing it out...it can be really hard to deal with.



Ireth said:


> I couldn't really care less how famous Meyer is; it doesn't change the fact that the Twilight series is (in my opinion) four volumes of crap. Haven't read the tie-in novella, so I don't have an opinion on that one. I did read her other book, The Host, and quite liked it, so I know Meyer CAN at least write well. I just wish the Twilight books were of the same quality.



By that I don't mean people criticize Twilight just because Meyer is famous. People don't usually criticize good authors (or atleast authors most people think are good) just because they're famous, except maybe some really contrarian hipster types. I'm more talking about people criticizing authors as people and not just their works. What I meant by that was people attack Meyer _ as a person _because she is famous _while also _writing bad books.

Take Rebecca Black. She's an awful artist. But does she deserve death threats? Does she deserve hatred? No. Her work does not deserve to be spoken of well, but as a person I have nothing against her.

I thought Twilight was a terrible book too...



Telcontar said:


> Everyone famous enough to have such vitriol directed at them has _at least_ one dedicated, hard-core fan for every detractor. Usually more - and no matter how many 'haters' you have, you can probably still cry your way to the bank.
> 
> In other words, may such problems rain down upon me.



Lol, well said. XD


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## Steerpike (Mar 28, 2012)

Ice Spider said:


> By that I don't mean people criticize Twilight just because Meyer is famous. People don't usually criticize good authors (or atleast authors most people think are good) just because they're famous, except maybe some really contrarian hipster types. I'm more talking about people criticizing authors as people and not just their works. What I meant by that was people attack Meyer _ as a person _because she is famous _while also _writing bad books.



Actually, I think this is exactly what happens, particularly among beginning writers. Twilight wasn't bad - certainly no where close to bad enough to warrant all the hate, particularly from aspiring writers. I thought the writing itself was more or less mediocre, my only problem with it was that the subject matter of the book didn't appeal to me.

If you think a publisher shelled out a three-quarter of a million dollars advance on a terrible book by a completely unknown author, on the off-chance that they could somehow market it to success, you're nuts.


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## Ice Spider (Mar 29, 2012)

Steerpike said:


> Actually, I think this is exactly what happens, particularly among beginning writers. Twilight wasn't bad - certainly no where close to bad enough to warrant all the hate, particularly from aspiring writers. I thought the writing itself was more or less mediocre, my only problem with it was that the subject matter of the book didn't appeal to me.
> 
> If you think a publisher shelled out a three-quarter of a million dollars advance on a terrible book by a completely unknown author, on the off-chance that they could somehow market it to success, you're nuts.



I dunno...I think they paid a pretty big advance for Eragon and the Sword of Truth series. (Maybe you think those books aren't terrible either? They seem to be almost universally reviled on internet forums, especially the Eragon series, but of course they have their share of fans).

I always thought publishers tended to pick up books if they thought they had potential to _sell_...because they'll think there'll be a market for them. I think Twilight's more of a guilty pleasure for people than anything else. A lot of Twilight fans have even admitted this to me. I have quite a few books/movies I feel this way about. A book can entertain someone, or be enjoyable, without being _good _per se.

Doesn't justify people hating on Meyer whatever way you slice it. Goodkind doesn't impress me as a human being, so I feel a little less sorry for him. 

But for all I know you may be right. I guess I just don't _get_ the envy a lot of aspiring writers seem to have. Stories of authors succeeding give me hope, they don't make me jealous. Just because one person made it doesn't mean none of us can. If they are worse than me, I don't say "how dare they" either...that gives me even _more _hope, because I know if they can do it, I can. 

I think if there's anyone who ought _not _to be flaming famous authors, it's aspiring writers. We may have to eat our words one day.


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## Steerpike (Mar 29, 2012)

Eragon received a $150,000 advance. The Sword of Truth received a $250,000 advance (from what I just looked up on both of them). Not really in the same league as Twilight by that metric.

I agree that aspiring writers should be cheering on the success of unknown authors who suddenly hit it big. I like to see it, personally. But whether you're talking about Twilight, or Potter, or The Da Vinci Code, all of which were cultural phenomenons to one degree or another, you can find beginning writers in forums like this slamming them at the height of their popularity. And it goes beyond simple "I didn't like it" or what have to. The hate heaped on the books is all out of proportion to anything that can possibly be justified. With Twilight, it was worse than what I've seen in previous cases.


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## Jabrosky (Mar 29, 2012)

I've made lots of stupid mistakes and pissed off people elsewhere on the Internet, so I'm scared that any haters of my work will bring those mistakes up to discredit me as an author. Given how much the press obsesses over celebrities' private lives, that is a real risk.

Then again, I probably won't end up famous enough to earn myself millions of detractors. The reason books like _Eragon_ and _Twilight_ are so hated is largely because so many other people liked those books, because stuff you don't like seems more irritating when it's popular.


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## Sheilawisz (Mar 29, 2012)

Stories will always have people who hate them and others who love them, no matter what- I am preparing myself to deal with both if I ever get to be published and famous!! Don't worry about haters, no story in this world can please everyone... just write your stories as they are, whether you are writing for yourself or for the masses =)


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## The Dark One (Apr 2, 2012)

I simply don't understand the sentiment behind this thread.

Writing, most fundamentally, is a means of communication. If you're not writing to transmit some kind of message (whether it be philosophic, or polemic or just plain entertainment) then what on earth are you doing? Surely you're doing it because you want an audience.

I can understand people not wanting to release something because they fear it's not good enough to exhibit their real quality, but once you do release something into the world then you have to just accept the fact that, no matter how good it is, some people will hate it. Once you have a public profile, no matter how small, hate is part of the deal so get over it in advance.

Having said all of that, I find myself in an interesting position.

My first book was published about two years ago and I've had heaps of fan mail. Everyone who has ever reviewed it or spoken to me about it loved it. But on reflection, it occurs to me that that book (not sci-fi or fantasy) was of a type that people would find difficult to hate.

Sci-fi and fantasy are different. These are genres that excite powerful likes and dislikes, and as I wait trembling for the first reviews of my recently published speculative fiction title, I suddenly realise that it is more than likely that there will be readers who dislike or even hate my work.

How dare they!


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## Ice Spider (Apr 2, 2012)

The Dark One said:


> I simply don't understand the sentiment behind this thread.
> 
> Writing, most fundamentally, is a means of communication. If you're not writing to transmit some kind of message (whether it be philosophic, or polemic or just plain entertainment) then what on earth are you doing? Surely you're doing it because you want an audience.
> 
> ...



Writing can also be a means of expression. Sometimes we need to express a feeling or an idea for its own sake. It could be a snapshot of a strong emotional state at a certain period of time, or something we've envisioned "just so" and want to get down before the spirit leaves us, so we can treasure it ourselves later, and the satisfaction I get in doing that (at least) can be very great. Sometimes just seeing it all down on paper is rewarding enough for me. Getting all the mush in my brain out in an organized fashion. I wouldn't dream of publishing any of my poetry, for instance, because I feel it's quite bad, but I was still very satisfied when I finished it.

A lot of it is simply satisfying a creative urge. I don't know, I kind of just like writing for its own sake. Just for the challenge, not simply to get an audience (though I really do think we can be our own audiences too...ideas usually change and morph into something different when pen comes to paper, for better or for worse). Don't get me wrong, obviously it's nice when you can get somebody to read your work, and there's not much that's more rewarding than to see it touched them or affected them in some way, but I can't say I would stop writing if I knew no one would.


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## The Dark One (Apr 4, 2012)

If you're going to write anyway, irrespective of whether you get an audience, then I like your chances of one day getting one.

Far too many people get into writing for (what I think are) the wrong reasons. Fame and fortune are no reason to pick up a pen (or open a lap top) - that way madness lies. But if you're genuinely inspired by The Urge then you might keep writing long enough to find your natural voice and produce something worthy of an audience.

It took me 15 years to get a book accepted and I wrote a hell of a lot in that time. Mainly because I couldn't 'not write'.


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## MichaelSullivan (Apr 6, 2012)

The best advice I can give you is to realize that what one person hates, another wil love. I did a post once that took actual reviews showing 180 degree differnces on the same aspects of my writing. You can read it here.

When you get really down - read the 1-star reviews on Harry Potter books...its reassuring to know there are people who hated them and yet they still made Rowlings a billionaire.


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