# Giant Sidewinder Cobra: Too OP?



## Mindfire (Jul 16, 2012)

I notice that my posts tend to abuse the "Exactly What it Says on the Tin" trope. Heh. Anyhow, to the point.

I have a group of rogues, scoundrels, and outlaws called Dune Riders who roam the deserts of my world. They are essentially glorified bandits. The name comes from the fact that they, in my original conception, used dunevipers as mounts. Dunevipers are a hybrid serpent resembling a cross between an American sidewinder and a Middle Eastern cobra. They are called dunevipers, not because they live in the desert, but because they can grow so large that when hidden under a thin layer of sand they appear to be _actual dunes_. 

Now, in retrospect, I'm starting to wonder if giving the Riders dunevipers as mounts might be a bit overpowered and strain suspension of disbelief. I mean, how powerful does a hero have to be to take down an entire pack of bandits (I'm thinking perhaps 6-13) armed with fire magic and riding on giant desert serpents? To address that potential issue I was thinking of having the Dune Riders use gargons as mounts instead. Gargons are something like a cross between a lion and a komodo dragon. They kinda look like this.

Of course, if I change their mounts, I may have to give them a different name.


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## Queshire (Jul 16, 2012)

Mmmm...... well if they're that big then I suggest only having one of them and having all the bandits ride on it like a train or something.


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## Mindfire (Jul 16, 2012)

Queshire said:


> Mmmm...... well if they're that big then I suggest only having one of them and having all the bandits ride on it like a train or something.



That's interesting. Hadn't thought of that. Hmmmm...


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## Jabrosky (Jul 16, 2012)

It only counts as overpowering if the bandits don't have any enemies who can feasibly defeat them. Power is relative.


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## Mindfire (Jul 16, 2012)

Jabrosky said:


> It only counts as overpowering if the bandits don't have any enemies who can feasibly defeat them. Power is relative.



Well, with my original scheme and each bandit having his own serpent... I suppose they could _technically_ be defeated, but my main character would have to switch godmode on, and he's not at that level just yet. Granted, at the time he's carrying a Divine Sword of Obliterate Everything, but he's rubbish at using it. He has zero sword skills and is really only carrying it for someone else.


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## BeigePalladin (Jul 16, 2012)

maybe keep the size, but as said before a train/multi-rider system might work (think of howwadah'd elephants, only with snakes). it'd also explain how they transport housing and the like, and would provide cover in the dunes/cooking space/etc...

you coudl also have the duneviper be a rare but valued mount - something for only the best bandits. with other ones having smaller snakes/lizards

also, giant snakes - due to how snakes eat - aren't really that dangerous; it'd be pretty easy to walk into the mouth (swallows food whole) then cut your way out - afterall, a shard of glass can kill a regular sized snake, I'm sure a sword could do the same for a huge one  if your worried about power level.

or you could always give the hero an even bigger mongoose to ride...

and glad to find another subscribed to the trope-co catalogue XD


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## Shockley (Jul 17, 2012)

I've thought of the ways to word this without offense, but I'm not finding a way so I'm just going to post an image: 








 This is Paul Atreides, from Dune.


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## Mindfire (Jul 17, 2012)

I have never read Dune. Thanks to your post, I wil continue not reading it.  

Dont take this the wrong way, but I put a lot of time and effort into my ideas. Your unwarranted insinuations to the contrary border on insult. Tread lightly.


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## Shockley (Jul 17, 2012)

I'm just trying to warn you that your story, as presented here, treads very closely to Dune (I mean, your creatures are even named Dune Vipers), and you got to be careful.


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## T.Allen.Smith (Jul 17, 2012)

Shockley said:
			
		

> I'm just trying to warn you that your story, as presented here, treads very closely to Dune (I mean, your creatures are even named Dune Vipers), and you got to be careful.



I understand what you're saying but other than being in a desert, his setting, characters,and story will be very different.


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## Jabrosky (Jul 17, 2012)

Mindfire said:


> I have never read Dune. Thanks to your post, I wil continue not reading it.
> 
> Dont take this the wrong way, but I put a lot of time and effort into my ideas. Your unwarranted insinuations to the contrary border on insult. Tread lightly.


I don't really care if your dune snakes have a superficial similarity to the creatures in _Dune_, but the defensive tone here is uncalled for. Please calm down.


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## BeigePalladin (Jul 17, 2012)

no offence to the guy who linked a dune picture, but, yeah. it's kinda unwarented and actually contributes fudge all, regardless of any insultingness with/without it, since he never said his snake idea was origional, and the planed version of the dunesnake he presented has next to no simmilarity to the duneworm other than being a big, sand-dwelling critter


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## Mindfire (Jul 17, 2012)

Alright, I'll calm down. It irks me when people accuse or imply that I somehow stole ideas from things I haven't even read.

But since the issue has been raised, I will cheerfully admit to borrowing concepts from other works. I take inspiration from everything from Disney films to the Codex Alera. What I _don't _like is when people assume I haven't done any creative grunt work of my own, or that I've copied something simply because its well known and popular.

For example: 

I have a vaguely Native American-ish forest-dwelling cultural group whose powers include empathy with nature and whose religion centers around a sacred tree. I came up with this idea at least a full year before I'd even *heard *of James Cameron's Avatar. I will however admit to the idea being inspired by Disney's Pocahontas.


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## Jabrosky (Jul 17, 2012)

Mindfire said:


> I'm currently in a bit of a quandary because I have a vaguely Native American-ish forest-dwelling cultural group whose powers include empathy with nature and whose religion centers around a sacred tree- an idea I came up at least a full year before I'd even *heard *of Avatar. Not changing it though, because I realized that the similarities between my work and Avatar have nothing to do  with James Cameron, and are actually the result of us borrowing from the same _source material_, namely Disney's Pocahontas.


Here I'm less concerned with originality _per se_ than racial stereotypes. Nature does feature prominently in some Native American religions (and for that matter many pre-modern religions in general), but must every Native American-style culture in fantasy be eco-friendly "noble savages"?


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## Mindfire (Jul 17, 2012)

Jabrosky said:


> Here I'm less concerned with originality _per se_ than racial stereotypes. Nature does feature prominently in some Native American religions (and for that matter many pre-modern religions in general), but must every Native American-style culture in fantasy be eco-friendly "noble savages"?



The quote you have in your post is outdated, as I edited my original statement to something more concise, which I'm better pleased with. I'd be quite grateful if you'd change your quotation to reflect that. But to answer your question:

First, the Mako, for that is what they are called, aren't _actually_ Native Americans. In their creation, I did little to no actual research on Native American culture because I wanted to _avoid _racial stereotyping. If you stacked them up against a real NA culture, you'd be hard pressed to find many similarities. In this respect, I think I've actually done better than films like Pocahontas. Rather than saying "this is NA culture", I'm trying to explore a fantasy idea without the baggage or trappings of trying to pin the archetype to a real-world people group. The Mako have more in common with the elves of Lothlorien than they do with the Powhatan confederation.

The only reason that "forest dwelling magical tribe" is seen as a racial stereotype is because we associate it with NA culture. That may seem tautological, but it's true. (Yes, I know how redundant it is to say that a tautology is true.) I want to keep the archetype, but break that association. Dissociate it from the real-world culture and its no longer a racial stereotype, just a fantasy archetype. Also, based on geographical distribution, the Mako would be more "equivalent" to equatorial Africans, though I can't say they have any cultural resemblance to them either.


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## Shockley (Jul 18, 2012)

@Mindfire: I never said you stole anything. I just pointed out that the image you presented, including the name of the creature, was reminiscent of one of the seminal works of sci-fi/fantasy. 

 I'm not trying to insult you, I'm trying to help you. If you want just positive input, well, that's not something you're going to get.


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## Mindfire (Jul 18, 2012)

Shockley said:


> @Mindfire: I never said you stole anything. I just pointed out that the image you presented, including the name of the creature, was reminiscent of one of the seminal works of sci-fi/fantasy.
> 
> I'm not trying to insult you, I'm trying to help you. If you want just positive input, well, that's not something you're going to get.



I get that Shockley. It just seemed like your were implying that I somehow ripped this idea from Dune's bleeding pages, which is not the case. For future reference, I would have preferred if you'd said something like, 

"Hey Mindfire, have you read Dune? Because this idea bears a passing resemblance to..."

To which I would have responded, "No, I haven't read Dune, though after a brief google check, I see where you're coming from. However, my idea is actually quite different because of Reasons A, B, and C, and I don't think there will be much confusion."


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## Shockley (Jul 18, 2012)

And I would prefer it if you would respond to my posts by actually asking if I am accusing you of ripping something off as opposed to freaking out about the supposed accusation.

 Either way, I'm going to wash my hands of this topic. As far as I'm concerned, this isn't worth fighting over.


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## Jess A (Jul 18, 2012)

Oops. Easy to accidentally come up with a 'similar' idea. But moving on.

What if your hero obtained a rogue snake-rider, some archers and a snake for himself? That could be a fun scene.


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## Mindfire (Jul 18, 2012)

Little Storm Cloud said:


> Oops. Easy to accidentally come up with a 'similar' idea. But moving on.
> 
> What if your hero obtained a rogue snake-rider, some archers and a snake for himself? That could be a fun scene.



Interesting idea. It would take some plotting gymnastics to make that happen, but I'll make a note in case I see an opportunity.


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