# So, I just realized something about how I write magic...



## Anders Ã„mting (Aug 26, 2012)

Somehow I've never thought about this before, but basically, I'm pretty sure I've used different magic systems - or rather different types of magic altogether - for basically every story I've ever tried to write.

I've written fairy-tale type magic, video-game type magic, clearly defined science-esque magic, very vague "pseudo-magic", classic "spellcasting" type magic, magic that is mostly psychic in nature, very limited magic, very versatile magic, very small scale magic and very large scale magic.

And here's the thing: That's not me experimenting or being indecisive. Rather, the style of magic I put into the story depends entirely on what _kind of story_ I'm trying to tell. It all depends entirely on which feeling I want to story to have as a whole. I don't seem to have any set preferences for magic, rather it changes depending on the story in the same manner that the setting or the tone or the themes change.

Has anyone else noticed similar tendencies? Or am I just weird this way?


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## Astner (Aug 26, 2012)

That magic is setting-dependent?


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## FatCat (Aug 26, 2012)

Anders Ã„mting said:


> Somehow I've never thought about this before, but basically, I'm pretty sure I've used different magic systems - or rather different types of magic altogether - for basically every story I've ever tried to write.
> 
> I've written fairy-tale type magic, video-game type magic, clearly defined science-esque magic, very vague "pseudo-magic", classic "spellcasting" type magic, magic that is mostly psychic in nature, very limited magic, very versatile magic, very small scale magic and very large scale magic.
> 
> ...



Never finished a story as of yet, however it seems to me like this is exactly what you want. Magic shouldn't be a static idea across all writing, it should be a variable dependent on the story. I'd say congrats, not weird, good!


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## Anders Ã„mting (Aug 26, 2012)

Astner said:


> That magic is setting-dependent?



"Setting" is the wrong word. The setting is just where the story takes place, not necessarily what the story is about. I mean that for me, magic is so closely tied to storytelling that I'm not even sure I could change the magic system in a given story and still tell the same story.


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## Astner (Aug 26, 2012)

Anders Ã„mting said:


> "Setting" is the wrong word. The setting is just where the story takes place, not necessarily what the story is about. I mean that for me, magic is so closely tied to storytelling that I'm not even sure I could change the magic system in a given story and still tell the same story.


So story-dependent?


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## Anders Ã„mting (Aug 26, 2012)

Astner said:


> So story-dependent?



Eh, call it whatever you like. The don't think the semantics are very important.


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## Astner (Aug 26, 2012)

Anders Ã„mting said:


> Eh, call it whatever you like. The don't think the semantics are very important.


It's the summery of your post. I didn't mean to be offensive but you presented as fluff. It's easier to debate something when it's presented directly.

The answer to your question becomes more obvious when you present it as: _Is magic setting- and story dependent?_ Primarily because magic is part of the setting and story, thus partially shaping it.


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## Saigonnus (Aug 26, 2012)

While generally it is true that magic definitely has alot to do with the story it is written in, even within a single work of literature you can have several different "ways" to do magic.

I have a WIP; something I have been working on for a couple years. Magic in this world is made up of different types of energy; found in all living and non-living matter around them so the type of magic you can work is highly dependent on what you have close at hand or at least within a few hundred yards. 

One culture I have lives and breathes magic; with everyone born within the society possessing the aptitude for something; even their warriors use magic in the abilities to slow the enemy, constrict him using grass or tree limbs, summon animals for distraction or attack (depending on what is close by)... 

The second society has no inherent capability for magic at all (until the main character comes along) and though they know about it's existance, they treat it like any other skill like herbalism or reading/writing... 

The third and less developed society can sense those individual forms of energy but can't differentiate one type from another, so acts more like classical wizardry, they pull the energy to them and even if it's the wrong type they can transmute it to something that will function. Generally their magic is crude in comparison and typically used only in certain aspects of society.


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## Benjamin Clayborne (Aug 26, 2012)

Generally I see magic presented as either concrete and (pseudo-)scientific, or as vague and mystical and elusive. In the former, it's a discipline with rules and lingo; in the latter, it's something that happens at need or is deeply attached to emotion.

I much prefer the former to the latter, partly because the latter too easily leads toward convenient plot contrivances


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## Anders Ã„mting (Aug 26, 2012)

Astner said:


> It's the summery of your post. I didn't mean to be offensive but you presented as fluff. It's easier to debate something when it's presented directly.



I'm not offended, I just don't think narrowing down the exact definition is especially important. But okay, if you absolutely need one to participate in this discussion, let's call it "concept dependent."

Still, I think I expressed myself fairly clearly in my original post, and if I wasn't you can just ask me for a clarification. But overanalyzing my exact meaning is just a good way to lose track of the main issue. Case in point:



> The answer to your question becomes more obvious when you present it as: _Is magic setting- and story dependent?_ Primarily because magic is part of the setting and story, thus partially shaping it.



That wasn't my question, though. I mean, _obviously_ this is the case for _me._

My question was: "Is this something you recognize in your own writing?"



Saigonnus said:


> While generally it is true that magic definitely has alot to do with the story it is written in, even within a single work of literature you can have several different "ways" to do magic.
> 
> I have a WIP; something I have been working on for a couple years. Magic in this world is made up of different types of energy; found in all living and non-living matter around them so the type of magic you can work is highly dependent on what you have close at hand or at least within a few hundred yards.
> 
> ...



Yeah, but one could still argue that in this case, the actual style of magic you are using here is: "very diverse magic." Would you say this diversity is an important part of your story concept?


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## Lorna (Aug 26, 2012)

I see magic as being highly dependent on world, type of culture and religion. 

In this world alone there are a huge variety of different types of magic- traditional witchcraft, shamanism, voodoo, ceremonial magick, chaos magic. In fantasy worlds the possibilities are endless.


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## Ghost (Sep 1, 2012)

Anders Ã„mting said:


> Has anyone else noticed similar tendencies? Or am I just weird this way?



I've noticed my fantasy stories and unwritten concepts have different kinds of magic. I've done or planned things like summoning demons and spirits, faerie magic, necromancy, illusion, mind control, divine magic, curses, charms, immortality, weather magic, enchantments, magical animals, divination, and characters that alter their world through the power of belief.

I wouldn't say the magic used changes with the kind of story I tell since I tell about three kinds of stories.  I don't reuse a type of magic unless the character, the story, and the setting are all different. Even then, the magic isn't exactly the same, just superficially similar. Distinctive magic or unusual techniques don't get recycled because I've already said what I needed to say with those ideas.

Generally, my magic is vague and has only one concequence. I dabble in organized magic systems for my main project and for standalone novels, but I can't imagine doing it for every short story on top of that.

Anyway, you're not weird unless I am, too. Reassuring, isn't it?


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## grimreaper (Sep 1, 2012)

Of course , the type of magic (magic system ?) used can (if you ask me , should ) change from one story to another , one wold to another .
There's nothing weird about it at all.


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## ALB2012 (Sep 1, 2012)

I agree  I think it depends on the world, the story or whatever. It may well partly be how the inhabitants of that world interpret it.
In my world magic is officially illegal but of course the magic doesn't know this. I am having a "wild magic" system I suppose this is the ancient magic which first came to the world and was gifted to the various races. I is almost as though it were alive.

After war and all sorts of nonsense magic was declared illegal and those who carried it hunted and either locked up or killed. 
There s still magic but it is rare- humans are not naturally magical unless somewhere in their ancestry they have magical blood.
Elves, trolls and the naturally magical races such as spirit, elementals, dragons etc  have a degree of magic but not all can use it. 

Trolls get a specific type of magic, including shapeshifting, elves similar and the now rare elementals get one. There is also "lost magic." Which has fallen from use as all the powerful mages are dead.

A human gets magic if somewhere in their ancestry is an elf/troll/elemental. The few mages who exist may or may not have mage children.

There are also adepts- those who cant spell cast but can use the magic to enhance their abilities and also those who use magic in other ways- scholar adepts who learn really fast, get ededetic memories that kind of thing.

I have seen loads of versions of magic and how it is written and dealt with, how it is perceived etc.

I think it is "world" dependent on many cases.

Obviously that is easier to hide.


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## Anders Ã„mting (Sep 1, 2012)

Lorna said:


> I see magic as being highly dependent on world, type of culture and religion.
> 
> In this world alone there are a huge variety of different types of magic- traditional witchcraft, shamanism, voodoo, ceremonial magick, chaos magic. In fantasy worlds the possibilities are endless.



Well, sure, but that just means you have a lot to choose from. The question is why you make that particular choice. 



Ghost said:


> I've noticed my fantasy stories and unwritten concepts have different kinds of magic. I've done or planned things like summoning demons and spirits, faerie magic, necromancy, illusion, mind control, divine magic, curses, charms, immortality, weather magic, enchantments, magical animals, divination, and characters that alter their world through the power of belief.
> 
> I wouldn't say the magic used changes with the kind of story I tell since I tell about three kinds of stories.  I don't reuse a type of magic unless the character, the story, and the setting are all different. Even then, the magic isn't exactly the same, just superficially similar. Distinctive magic or unusual techniques don't get recycled because I've already said what I needed to say with those ideas.



In other words, you like to have varied magic systems regardless of story? Even if you want to tell a story similar to your previous one, you want that variation?

That's quite different from what I do, actually.



> Anyway, you're not weird unless I am, too. Reassuring, isn't it?



I dunno, I think it would please my ego to know I'm the only one who does this. 



ALB2012 said:


> I agree  I think it depends on the world, the story or whatever. It may well partly be how the inhabitants of that world interpret it.
> In my world magic is officially illegal but of course the magic doesn't know this. I am having a "wild magic" system I suppose this is the ancient magic which first came to the world and was gifted to the various races. I is almost as though it were alive.
> 
> After war and all sorts of nonsense magic was declared illegal and those who carried it hunted and either locked up or killed.
> ...



Still, something like "magic is illegal" is a matter of society, not something intrinsic to your magic system. I think those are kinda separate things.

I mean, I could take any of my settings and change them so that magic is illegal, but it would still be the same magic. Does that make sense?


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## Steerpike (Sep 1, 2012)

In my RPG gaming world (for tabletop RPG sessions) magic is inherently dangerous/deadly, and thus tends to be illegal in most places and viewed with distrust most everywhere if not viewed as outright evil (which is usually the case).


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## Saigonnus (Sep 1, 2012)

Anders Ã„mting said:


> Yeah, but one could still argue that in this case, the actual style of magic you are using here is: "very diverse magic." Would you say this diversity is an important part of your story concept?



It is certainly important when many things in the story revolve around the presence of magic. Without it, the story wouldn't be possible in the same way. For example, the dark creatures I have as the prime motivation for the quest are basically transformed from humans using magic... the chief antagonist is a magic construct (though of course the MCs don't know that) and the witnessing of a magical bombardment of the principal city and the enslaving of the survivors is another motivation for the quest to be undertaken. As you can see, without magic i'd have to use other more mundane motivations or simply scrap the story.


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## JCFarnham (Sep 1, 2012)

Anders Ã„mting said:


> "Setting" is the wrong word. The setting is just where the story takes place, not necessarily what the story is about. I mean that for me, magic is so closely tied to storytelling that I'm not even sure I could change the magic system in a given story and still tell the same story.



I truly believe writers should strive to create/use elements that absolutely cannot be removed from any given story on account of the specifics being thaat important to the story telling. 

If your ring can be a sword... Or a pen... Or a dog... Whats the point?


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## Ghost (Sep 2, 2012)

Anders Ã„mting said:


> In other words, you like to have varied magic systems regardless of story? Even if you want to tell a story similar to your previous one, you want that variation?



I wouldn't say "varied." The magic can be similar. For example, power-of-belief situations recur in my stories, and how they manifest depends on the character. I can write about a woman who believes she can fly in one story, and a man who believes he can burn a city down with his thoughts. It's a similar set up, and both stories center on the characters' thoughts as they realize their powers. Their personalities affect the course of the story more than the magic does. Still, I wouldn't write about two characters with the ability to fly unless the stories were fundamentally different.

I don't intentionally vary things. It's more like I used up the spark of inspiration, so I need something new to ignite the next story. Thought it would be common, but perhaps not.



Anders Ã„mting said:


> I dunno, I think it would please my ego to know I'm the only one who does this.



It's okay. I now see we aren't like-minded at all! :insertevillaughhere

Magic comes into my stories at the concept stage. A concept and/or conflict informs the mood, the mood tells me about characters, characters influence the setting, and then a plot happens. Mood/character/setting can be in a different order, but the concept and/or conflict starts it all—meaning the concept (magic) tells me about the setting and the plot rather than vice versa.

I reread the OP to see what I'm misunderstanding, and it looks like my order is different from yours.



Anders Ã„mting said:


> the style of magic I put into the story depends entirely on what _kind of story_ I'm trying to tell. It all depends entirely on which feeling I want to story to have as a whole.



My story's mood or feeling sprouts from the concept or main conflict. I don't know what it feels like until I know what it's about. Is the feeling the first thing you know about a story? That would be interesting. Don't mind me if I misunderstood again.


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## Snowpoint (Sep 6, 2012)

I will argue that Wizards of Waverly Place has an excellent magic system. Why? Wizards is a comedy, and the magic allows funny stuff to happen on and episodic basis. This is rather important for a episodic comedy, right?

Magic only exists to make the narrative stronger. The magic must accommodate the type of story you are trying to tell.


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