# Need help with unconventional fight scene reference material



## LadyKatina (May 16, 2013)

Hey guys. 

In my outline for my current WIP, I have a fight break out between four opponents, on two "sides."  The good guys are trying to capture/subdue bad guys. The setting is a turn of the century traveling circus. 

The match up is as follows:

Good guy: lightweight circus knife thrower with heavily implied street knife fighting experience.
vs.
Bad guy: circus strong man, obviously a big, intimidating guy

Good girl: illusionist/stage magician, agile and strong from working behind the scenes for years.
vs. 
Bad girl: aerialist/acrobat, older, still pretty fast, strong and ruthless--has killed before.

I'm trying to find film and television reference materials to help me block this fight scene. The two fights are going on simultaneously, either in the midway or under the big top. Possibly ranging across both. 

My husband said that Jason Statham's character in The Expendables movies is a good example of a knife expert. I'm feeling like River Tam in Serenity is a good example of the bad girl acrobat/aerialist. Illusionist good girl is basically very similar to DC Comics Zatanna: a stage magician with some limited real magical ability. 

Can anybody recommend any movies or television shows that can help me get a visual sense of these different fighting styles and how they'd play out? I feel like if I can visualize it, I can verbalize it; but right now I'm having a hard time visualizing it.


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## wordwalker (May 16, 2013)

_Serenity_'s always a fun example, except that River's _so_ good at what she does (when she's ready to do it) that you don't get a proper look at how it works in a fairer fight.

For the girls, I think you might want to look at Hong Kong-style films-- including ninja-style disappearances and tricks for the illusionist.

For the knife fighter, we did have a couple of threads about this: Knife-Fighting and especially Blade-Throwing (though we did say a circus performer might be one of the few people who'd ever learn to throw knives). Or you might see the famous _Rob Roy_ duel for something a little like how a fast and ruthless slasher might cut up a big slow (unarmored !!!!!!!!!) bruiser.


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## Nihal (May 17, 2013)

Not exactly what you're asking, but I'm curious: Is there any good plot reason behind the gender division besides "girls should fight girls"? Otherwise it would be interesting to consider another setup, not only to get rid of random gender based divisions but to spice up the matches; their abilities can proporcionate good fights if you mix the oponents styles.


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## T.Allen.Smith (May 17, 2013)

First we need to know your intention as an author. 

Are you going for the flashy style of fight scene common in action movies nowadays?

OR

Do you want your characters to fight realistically, yet with their own particular advantages?

Even with acrobats & illusion, the combat itself could be written brutal & realistic.


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## A. E. Lowan (May 17, 2013)

Nihal said:


> Not exactly what you're asking, but I'm curious: Is there any good plot reason behind the gender division besides "girls should fight girls"? Otherwise it would be interesting to consider another setup, not only to get rid of random gender based divisions but to spice up the matches; their abilities can proporcionate good fights if you mix the oponents styles.



I was actually wondering the same thing.

One thing that might be interesting to mix things up, is to mix things up!   What if your combatants swap opponents at some point?  One sees the other in trouble and breaks off engagement to assist, and then finds themselves fighting the other guy, while their partner takes their original opponent.  Part of the fun of a fight is that it is chaotic, and strange things can happen suddenly, while at other times it seems as if time slows dramatically.


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## Mholly (May 17, 2013)

In the tv cartoon Avatar: The Last Airbender, there is a character, Mai, who throws knives.  Theres another character, Ty Lee, who does acrobatic stuff too.


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## LadyKatina (May 17, 2013)

wordwalker said:


> For the girls, I think you might want to look at Hong Kong-style films-- including ninja-style disappearances and tricks for the illusionist.



Got any specific movies in mind? Thanks for the tip on Rob Roy, though. Hadn't seen it and would've never considered it. 



Nihal said:


> Not exactly what you're asking, but I'm curious: Is there any good plot reason behind the gender division besides "girls should fight girls"?



It's less about gender and more about individual character motivation. More like Main Character/Primary Villain and Love Interest/Henchman. The aerialist killed the illusionist's father years earlier for personal gain, so there's a personal grudge. The strong man is just looking to avoid being sent to prison for helping the aerialist, and the knife thrower is mostly trying to capture the strong man and keep him from doubling up with the aerialist on the illusionist, if that makes any sense? 

Although if the "streams crossed" a bit during the fight, to aelowan's point, that wouldn't be a bad thing. It's just Illusionist is quite determined to take down Aerialist. There's a definite blood feud between those two. The guys don't have a personal vendetta with each other. 



T.Allen.Smith said:


> Are you going for the flashy style of fight scene common in action movies nowadays?
> 
> OR
> 
> ...



I'm leaning towards flashy. It's a steampunk fairy tale with alchemy thrown in, so I think we may have left "gritty realism" behind a few genres ago. 



Mholly said:


> In the tv cartoon Avatar: The Last Airbender, there is a character, Mai, who throws knives.  Theres another character, Ty Lee, who does acrobatic stuff too.



Good Lord, I can't believe I forgot about Avatar!


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