# What do you want your writing to achieve and what are you doing to make that happen?



## BWFoster78 (Aug 15, 2013)

If I ever achieve success as an author, I think I'll look back and say that the biggest thing I did right was to set a clear goal as to what I wanted to achieve.  The goal isn't about how many books I want to sell or how many words I want to write.  It's about what I want my writing to be like, what I want it to accomplish.

I started by considering carefully the books I most enjoy.  What traits do they have in common?  Why do I like them?  By examining the commonalities, I determined there are two things I like, and I used those two characteristics to set my goal.

I want my books to:

1. Be engaging.  I want my reader to have a hard time putting my book down, and, when they're forced to do just that, I want every second that they're away to be agonizing.  I want them to put down the book and say, "That was fun!"

2. Evoke an emotional response.  I want the reader to care about the characters so much that they experience what the characters are feeling.

Since I know what I want to achieve, all I have to do is figure out how to achieve it.  To make my writing engaging, I determined the three following factors/techniques to be of the utmost importance (not to say that the same result can't be achieved by pursuing a different path, but I think this is the way for me to achieve it):

1. Tension, tension, and more tension.
2. Clear, tight writing.
3. Good control of pacing.

Making the writing engaging seems to be, by far, the easier of the two goals.  I find many more books that achieve this goal than the emotional one and that I more easily achieve it in my own work.  As far as I can tell, the three main factors/techniques involved in evoking emotion are:

1. Relatable characters.
2. Deep POV.
3. Not sure yet.  I'll let you know when I figure it out.  I think it has something to do with building to a climatic moment, but I'm not exactly sure if that's exactly what I mean or how it's accomplished.

Setting such goals, I believe, has the following advantages:

1. It's efficient.  Writing well demands mastery of a lot of techniques.  By narrowing down the definition of "well," I've focused in on the ones I need to work on first.
2. It gives me some idea of my audience.  I'm not a marketing guy, but a piece of advice that I read over and over is that you need to know your audience.  I have little idea of such, which concerns me greatly.  I do know, however, that my audience likes books that meet these two goals.  (I realize, of course, that I've created something of a tautology with this reasoning  )
3. It gives me a measuring stick for "good enough."  We've discussed on this board the meaning and the importance of "good enough" a lot lately.  Determining this nebulous criterion is made much simpler for me by being able to say, "It's good enough if it achieves at least one of my two goals."
4. I think it will help me stay focused.  When I gain more experience writing, I'll get better at determining story ideas that have more mass market appeal, and I'll discover new and exciting techniques with which I want to experiment.  By keeping these two goals sharply in focus, though, I won't lose sight of who I want to be as a writer.

I get that I'm more analytical than most writers, and, perhaps contrary to the way I come across, I don't think, when it comes to creative process, that you have to do something a certain way.  However, I do feel that this issue is important enough that, if you're not an established author, it may be beneficial for you to step back and ask yourself what you're trying to achieve.

All that to say, "What are you trying to achieve with your writing and how do you plan to get there?"

Thanks,

Brian


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## Daichungak (Aug 15, 2013)

The books I enjoy the most are ones that surprise me.  I hate reading stories that are written in a way that you _know _everything is going to work out for the main character.  All too commonly the good guy beats the bad guy, gets the girl, saves the world and comes to a greater understanding of himself by doggedly adhering to his altruistic motives.  (vomit)  

People, events, motives and consequence are never purely black or white, good or evil, in real life and they shouldn’t be in writing.

A book that has main characters being killed or truly suffering, for reals killed not comic book or soap opera killed, gets and holds my attention much better than one where I know the MC is safe.  An obvious example of this kind of writing is GRRM's Song of Ice and Fire.


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## BWFoster78 (Aug 15, 2013)

Daichungak said:


> The books I enjoy the most are ones that surprise me.  I hate reading stories that are written in a way that you _know _everything is going to work out for the main character.  All too commonly the good guy beats the bad guy, gets the girl, saves the world and comes to a greater understanding of himself by doggedly adhering to his altruistic motives.  (vomit)
> 
> People, events, motives and consequence are never purely black or white, good or evil, in real life and they shouldn’t be in writing.
> 
> A book that has main characters being killed or truly suffering, for reals killed not comic book or soap opera killed, gets and holds my attention much better than one where I know the MC is safe.  An obvious example of this kind of writing is GRRM's Song of Ice and Fire.



So, do you make achieving this element of surprise your first priority with your writing?


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## Scales (Aug 15, 2013)

Hello everyone, I just signed up yesterday.

To give people a different setting. My trilogy is set in a fantasy version of 1940s Japan.

And to have a different species of dragon riders that aren't humanoid.


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## Svrtnsse (Aug 15, 2013)

My ultimate goal is to be able to make a comfortable living writing stories that I can be proud of.

At the moment, my first priority is to learn to write.

Where BWF seems to have a very methodical and analytical approach to reaching his goal I'm taking the more empirical route. I started writing a novel, not primarily to tell the story, but to see if I could do it and to learn from the process. I had a vague idea of how to go about it and what story I wanted to try to tell. 
In the few months since I started I feel I've learned a lot, both from a technical and artistic perspective. I've also become a lot more aware of my limitations. I've recognised that I'm not as magically awesomely talented as I first believed and that I have a lot to learn. I'm not giving up though. I still feel I've got what it takes and I'm enjoying it and to me that's more than good enough.
I still have my lofty goal as stated above. I haven't spent much thought on the details og how to get there, but I've started and I'm moving in roughly the general direction of that goal.


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## BWFoster78 (Aug 15, 2013)

> At the moment, my first priority is to learn to write.



That is a fine priority.  I applaud it.  If you can learn to fish, you can catch a meal anytime you want.  I think a lot of beginners are so focused on the meal in front of them that they ignore the bigger picture.



> I've started and I'm moving in roughly the general direction of that goal.



That's good at least.

The problem is that writing is a huge endeavor.  There's so much to learn.

I found the concentrating on a specific area until I felt competent speeded my process and made me feel less overwhelmed.


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## shwabadi (Aug 15, 2013)

I want the people who read my stuff to have fun reading, that's my main goal. Another important point for me is communicating to the reader exactly what's in my head. With music, different interpretations are what makes the art form really fun to deconstruct. In literature however, I don't think there should be any ambiguity or confusion when reading a novel (of course poetry and things like that are exceptions).


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## BWFoster78 (Aug 15, 2013)

> I want the people who read my stuff to have fun reading, that's my main goal. Another important point for me is communicating to the reader exactly what's in my head.



I guess a larger part of the question is: What are you doing to achieve these goals?


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## Svrtnsse (Aug 15, 2013)

BWFoster78 said:


> The problem is that writing is a huge endeavor.  There's so much to learn.



There is indeed.
Part of the idea is that by starting out writing a book I will encounter problems I weren't aware even existed. I've had to ask questions, both of myself and of others, I'd never thought of before I started out. I see this first novel very much as a learning experience.
By actually trying to write a book I'm coming across these issues in practice rather than in theory, which to me is very valuable. I also picked a character and a story that I didn't particularly care about. That way it wouldn't be such a personal blew to me if I failed writing the the book or if it turned out crap. I can mess about and experiment and try new things to see how they work.
I also learned that by spending this much time writing about your character you do start to develop some feelings for them and I now care a lot more about poor Enar than I did when I first started. This too is an important lesson.


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## C Hollis (Aug 15, 2013)

For myself, it is simplistic.  I have no lofty goals of being best-seller, or making riches off of something I love to do.  Don't get me wrong, it would be nice to make a living off of this, but that is not the end all goal to what I do.

I get excited when I sit down to write.  I can't wait to see where the people in my head take me next.
I get excited when I sit down to edit a story.  I love to see my stories grow wings.
I get excited when I publish a story.  I love to hear reactions from the readers.

Disclaimer:  The following applies to me and I speak for myself and no others.
If my goal becomes a price tag, what I enjoy becomes work.  When it becomes a job, the passion fades.  When the passion fades, the stories die.

I want to write character driven stories and share them with the world, because this is what I enjoy.

To achieve that goal; I spend most every day of my life writing character driven stories.


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## T.Allen.Smith (Aug 15, 2013)

I feel the #1 job of a writer is to invoke an emotional response in the reader. In my view, your second point leads to the first, writing an engaging story.

Over time, I've come to understand what I love about certain stories.

1. Characters. Do I care about them? Do they feel real?
2. Story lines. Are there surprises? Have they been subtlety foreshadowed, giving me an "Aha!" moment?
3. Story telling. Do I forget that I'm reading?

There are several methods for achieving the above. Throughout the last decade, I've tried to learn about (and put into practice) those methods that best suit the style I'm going for. I don't think the learning process will ever stop but I do feel the more I write,  the more refined my style becomes. 

Some of my key principles:
1. A strong lean towards showing over telling.
2. Use strong verbs & descriptors. Limit adverb use.
3. Concrete over abstract description. Clarity is king.
4. Distinct characterization. 
5. Increase tension throughout.
6. End every scene/chapter with a hook.
7. Write for drama. Leave the boring bits out.
8. Strive for transparent writing (The reader shouldn't notice the writing).
9. Write nothing that doesn't either reveal character or advance the action/conflict.

Other than style concerns:
1. Commitment. Finish what I start.
2. Discipline. Write every day.
3. Accountability. Hold myself accountable for reaching daily goals. Do not except self-deluding excuses.


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## Butterfly (Aug 15, 2013)

> Making the writing engaging seems to be, by far, the easier of the two goals. I find many more books that achieve this goal than the emotional one and that I more easily achieve it in my own work. As far as I can tell, the three main factors/techniques involved in evoking emotion are:
> 
> 1. Relatable characters.
> 2. Deep POV.
> 3. Not sure yet. I'll let you know when I figure it out. I think it has something to do with building to a climatic moment, but I'm not exactly sure if that's exactly what I mean or how it's accomplished.



3. Atmosphere perhaps... the overall environment and the things that lurk in the shadows, or just around the corner, false senses of security and calm. Can be used in shocking ways, such as a beautiful valley with lots of nature and scenery to look at but when reaching the bottom you find the aftermath of a battle that took place some weeks ago... or something like that.


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## BWFoster78 (Aug 15, 2013)

Butterfly said:


> 3. Atmosphere perhaps... the overall environment and the things that lurk in the shadows, or just around the corner, false senses of security and calm. Can be used in shocking ways, such as a beautiful valley with lots of nature and scenery to look at but when reaching the bottom you find the aftermath of a battle that took place some weeks ago... or something like that.



I love reaching a spot in the book where I laugh like I'm there with the characters (not the same thing at all as laughing at a joke or funny situation) or literally get choked up.  I haven't found many authors able to produce such a response.  It seems to me that the ones who are able to create a climatic moment by skillfully building to it.  I'm just not sure how they accomplish it.


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## BWFoster78 (Aug 15, 2013)

T.Allen.Smith said:


> I feel the #1 job of a writer is to invoke an emotional response in the reader. In my view, your second point leads to the first, writing an engaging story.
> 
> Over time, I've come to understand what I love about certain stories.
> 
> ...



I feel that you and I have very similar tastes/attitudes.

Have I ever read anything of yours?  If not, I'd like to.


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## T.Allen.Smith (Aug 15, 2013)

BWFoster78 said:


> I feel that you and I have very similar tastes/attitudes.


Yes, with a few departures (like opinions on the importance of voice), I think we agree on many points of style.




BWFoster78 said:


> Have I ever read anything of yours?  If not, I'd like to.


No you haven't yet. There's less than a handful of scribes who have. When I'm done with my current work we can certainly trade reading.


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## BWFoster78 (Aug 15, 2013)

> When I'm done with my current work we can certainly trade reading.



Sounds like a plan.


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## Caged Maiden (Aug 15, 2013)

My goal is to send this WIP to an agent I'm hoping will give it one glance and love it as much as I do.

  I don't have any shortage of confidence.  I feel like I know what I'm doing now.

TO prepare:

I'm perfecting my editing process (the thing I've struggled with the most).  I'm also trying to use outlines more, even if it means writing them after I've written a chapter of the book.  Getting into a good habit is never wasted time.

I'm also writing every day.  Well, writing or editing.  Kinda both.  I spend hours every day looking at my work, thinking about writing theory or responding to posts that get me more excited about honing my skills.  

I also remind myself to be patient.  I'm not ready.  I got a partial request last yer that I got so excited about I botched the submission by sending a poorly edited and wrongly formatted manuscript.  Bridges, once burned, are hard to rebuild.  SO I'm reminding myself to take my time and put in s much effort as it takes to make this WIP a success the first time.  I remember when we sold our first house.  Our goal was for the first person who looked at it to buy it.  That's exactly what happened.  I often shoot for goals and realistically assess what it's going to take to reach it.  I'd rather wait now than hurry and finish something, doing a rush job, and get rejections again.  I'm going to send out my story, exactly as I see it and edited as good as I can get it.  And cross my fingers that it's exactly what the agent wants to see.  No more sloppy work for me.  I've worked too hard to sell myself short now.  

Another thing I'm doing is continuing to crit for other people.  It really helps to keep yourself sharp and if all you do is go through your manuscript making little word-nit pickiness changes, you never actually get better.  When I read for other people, problems stand out more and I've trained my brain to treat my own work with more of a discerning eye.  lso, having people crit for me is super valuable and helpful.  

Okay, so there's my goal and how I'm working to accomplish it.


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## Chessie (Aug 15, 2013)

One of the things I'm currently doing is reading  Alan Watt's "The 90-Day Novel". Its totally up my alley, I dig it big time. His process is easy going and deep. I also crit the work of other writers, read my fair share of books, and stay true to what's in my heart that wants to come out on the page. 

In order to achieve my writing goals, I'm going to also be a student of writing forever. Constantly evolving, knowing that I'll never get it done but that I'll keep getting better, makes me feel free with my writing. 

Far as the goals I have with my writing, I want to entertain, uplift, bring in a sense of magic and wonder to my readers. I want them along on this journey with me...this beautiful storytelling journey that will go on throughout my life.


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## BWFoster78 (Aug 15, 2013)

> Far as the goals I have with my writing, I want to entertain, uplift, bring in a sense of magic and wonder to my readers. I want them along on this journey with me...this beautiful storytelling journey that will go on throughout my life.



Anything specific you're doing to help you achieve entertaining and uplifting writing that brings a sense of wonder?


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## Svrtnsse (Aug 15, 2013)

BWFoster78 said:


> Anything specific you're doing to help you achieve entertaining and uplifting writing that brings a sense of wonder?



This too is a goal of mine. For now my main avenue of reaching that is to be in that state of mind when writing. It's hard to write sunshine when it's raining. 

It's going to be tough though. My story is taking place over a week in late spring and it's easily going to take me a year to write it. It's going to take some effort to write a believable June afternoon, when the November rains are pissing down outside. I strongly believe that being in the right mood will help you write that mood though. I believe I'll achieve it through putting on the right music, but the future will tell if that's enough or not.


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## Feo Takahari (Aug 15, 2013)

This will be long, so I'll make it two parts.

My larger goal is usually to create characters my readers will find interesting. This doesn't necessarily equate to "sympathetic", but that's the route I most frequently go. I haven't codified my methods before, but a few thoughts off the top of my head:

1): An interesting character acts on more than one principle. In most cases, these principles drag them in different directions--this means that you can't always tell what the character will do in response to a particular situation.

2): Interesting characters aren't always logical, but their actions make sense on some level. This is most important in tragedy, with characters failing through their flaws and their weaknesses, but it's useful to keep in mind in other genres as well--if your character was previously cowardly, and you want him to do something brave, you need to create a sequence of events that will inspire him to bravery.

3): Interesting characters help to create their situation. This doesn't preclude inactive characters, but their inactivity must be at least partially their own fault. Characters who're constantly pushed around by fate or chance, without any opportunity to make meaningful choices, are unable to demonstrate the traits that define them.

To put this together, I think John in my story _Eternal_ is an interesting character, albeit one of my simpler ones. When his wife Leila was alive, he wanted to spend time with her, but also wanted to earn a living and provide for her. After her death, he convinces himself that Ghost is Leila reborn, in part because that gives him an opportunity to atone for neglecting Leila. He's not that rounded of a character, and I ultimately used Ghost as my protagonist, but I think he's got enough complexity to function in his role.

More in a moment.


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## Feo Takahari (Aug 16, 2013)

Warning: excessively wordy.

To illustrate my narrower goal, I'd like to discuss the lamia. This is a typical 19th-century lamia:








In the stories about her, she's beautiful and evil, seducing and corrupting innocent young men. As a female figure who actively pursues sex with males, her connection with snakes is often made curiously phallic, tying into the idea of sexual pleasure as a thing that's right for males but dangerous in females. (In some versions, she's actually hermaphroditic.)

But even at that time, Keats had a very different conception of what a lamia was and meant. In the years that have passed, we've seen his ideas expanded upon, and the lamia has become something else entirely:







The lamia of modern fiction is still in many ways a sexual being, but she's no longer a figure of fear. She can be a dear friend, a devoted lover, or even a protagonist in her own right. She's been allowed the potential to be multidimensional, and I think that's because women's sexuality is no longer considered scary.

I've read plenty of authors who find what people are afraid of, create a monster to model it, and then make money off the idea that the monster's coming to get you. I want to make monsters that are harmless, applying the techniques I mentioned above to make the things and the people other people shy away from understandable and even sympathetic. I want to be able to say that in my own tiny way, I helped to create an environment in which people are allowed to be different without being shunned or demonized.

My "beautiful grotesques," as I call them, aren't my sole artistic focus, but they're my favorite subject, and the one that's most important to me. Even in my stories where the grotesque is less obvious, I still tend to focus on freaks and outsiders, humanized and granted their own voices with which to tell their own stories.


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## Chessie (Aug 16, 2013)

BWFoster78 said:


> Anything specific you're doing to help you achieve entertaining and uplifting writing that brings a sense of wonder?


Well, lets see how well I can explain this.  

I like to entertain with a story that is twisted, interesting, with a blend of dark and light for balance. Most of my stories tend to have an underlying darkness to them, and then I add in a bit of humor where its least expected. 

By uplifting, the focus of my stories tend to be the characters and their personal transformations. Sure, plot counts, but its mostly about what the people in the story are going through. I like readers to come out of a piece feeling as if they connected not only to the characters, but to themselves. I love when I read a story that leaves me reflecting my own self and my life. That's one of my goals with writing.

For a sense of wonder, definitely magic and an interesting setting. But magic that is mysterious, unexplained, and beautiful to the characters so hopefully the readers will see it that way, too. I would love to get into specifics but....I'm kind of hushed about these things.  

The setting for my work in progress plays a huge role, since its partly where the magic in the story comes from. EDIT: My characters tend to be pretty screwed up in some way. Addiction, sexuality conflicts, and my main character's biggest problem is that she's a mother and does not want to be so. Its central to everything that's going on...and the story moves towards her surrender. I like DRAMA big time.


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## Pat Harris (Aug 16, 2013)

I'm after laughter, tears, angst, hope, fears, and a bit of anger perhaps. I'd like to leave my readers with the feeling that there is indeed a greater good and it is well worth pursuing. If that seems a little lofty, so be it. Fantasy epics are by nature "predictable," but it's about the journey--how we get there--and therein lies the challenge. Run 'em through the ringer and then set 'em on the throne.


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## wordwalker (Aug 16, 2013)

I do love putting people through the wringer, leaving them not sure where they stood at the start and getting more complicated from there. Part of that is, like Feo, I like characters torn between different principles, and those who do unusual but logical-to-them things (and yes, they often attract their own troubles too). Also, I'm learning I have a real love for action, suspense, and the details of how a magic might really get used ("how *do* you break in with a spray can, a bag of birdseed, and a rock?").

One side of this we haven't quite mentioned is that at least some of these priorities are the things we need to publicize. It's a little easy for writers to sound alike (if I hear "strong characters" in the wrong context my eyes glaze over), and that's a fatal flaw in today's crowded world. But non-humanoid dragonriders? That one I'll remember, and I'll remember "big-time drama" if you can find a really juicy way to put it. A writer's more than one thing, but today's readers probably need to hear that one thing before they slow down to read the rest.


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## Chilari (Aug 16, 2013)

With my writing, I want to achieve the following:

1. I want to write stories I enjoy writing
2. I want to hit the million words mark in the next 15 months (latest estimate is in the region of 650,000 written in the last decade - before that I don't have enough records or a good enough memory)
3. I want to surprise and excite and entertain readers
4. I want to make enough money from my writing in the next 3 years to boost my income enough that I can move out of my fiance's mum's house and finally actually get married.

As for how I'm going to achieve those goals:

Nonspecifically, I'll keep writing, keep reading and keep learning.

Specifically, I have a plan whereby I will write to a word goal for one month on any number of pieces of fiction - short stories, novelettes, whatever. Then I'll spend the next month analysing the various stories I've written, and select the best three shorts or best novelette and best short based on quality, completeness and appeal. Then I'll edit those. For the next month I go back to writing (new stories, rewrites of old stories, rewrites of sections of what I'd written two months ago, continuations of longer stuff, whatever), and the month after that it's editing again. I'll also seek feedback. After a few rounds of this I should have something ready to submit to a magazine or publish as an ebook. And then I market appropriately and keep writing, editing and submitting. One paid magazine acceptance or 200 ebook sales per month will boost my income enough to hit goal 4, excepting other income sources.

As far as reading is concerned, I've got quite the reading list of fiction, non-fiction, history and so on I am working my way through.


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## T.Allen.Smith (Aug 16, 2013)

Pat Harris said:


> Fantasy epics are by nature "predictable," but it's about the journey--how we get there--and therein lies the challenge. Run 'em through the ringer and then set 'em on the throne.


Often they are predictable, but they don't have to be. 

I look for ways to turn expectations on their head. It's part of the desire to surprise the reader. That's very difficult, especially when dealing with a sophisticated and experienced audience. I've found that my own reading, outside the fantasy genre, helps a great deal to spark unexpected directions and ideas.


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## Steerpike (Aug 16, 2013)

Feo Takahari said:


> Warning: excessively wordy.
> 
> To illustrate my narrower goal, I'd like to discuss the lamia. This is a typical 19th-century lamia:



I enjoy Waterhouse.


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## Jabrosky (Aug 16, 2013)

*My Writing Goals*

1. Writing allows me to express my lifelong creative streak and to show people the exotic places and characters I've always imagined. They say guys like me I live in our own little worlds, and I want more than anything to share my own mind's little world with the real, larger world outside. 

2. I want to win people's admiration with my creativity and start a loyal fandom. Money I don't care so much about, but I crave respect and love from others.

3. Sometimes I am upset by how certain groups of people, societies, or time periods get represented in popular media and want to provide a different, more accurate or more respectful portrayal of those subjects. For instance, as a longtime fan of ancient Egyptian civilization, I don't like how most movies and books depict the Egyptians and their culture and want to correct that. That's why a lot of my stories take place in Egyptian-based settings.

4. A major reason why I have so many female characters of certain persuasions is, well, I find those kinds of women attractive and wish I could see them more often in fiction.

As for the steps I'm taking to accomplish my goals...need to ponder about that some more. I do know that I want to paint vivid scenes with rich descriptions since I've always been a highly visual thinker.


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## Sheilawisz (Aug 16, 2013)

I want my stories to be exactly what I wanted them to be. I am the first person that must be pleased while reading them, and when I do not achieve this, I keep re-reading and fixing a chapter until I am totally happy with it.

Then, regarding other readers:

1- I want my stories to make people feel happy, engaged and connected to my world and my characters. I want my readers to immerse into my stories... My goal is to take people out of the real world and plunge them deep into my own world, and that is, in my opinion, the main goal that all Fantasy writers should have.

2- I want my readers to create very clear and vivid images in their minds while they read my stories, just like they were watching a film.

3- I want to capture the imagination of my readers, so when they stop reading they will remain thinking about the story, the characters and what is going to happen next... and then, I want them to have dreams about my stories =)

Imagination is a wonderful power, and I want to transmit it to my readers...


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## Daichungak (Aug 16, 2013)

1. Entertain myself
2. Entertain  my reader
3. Challenge my world view
4. Challenge my reader's world view

If the book isn’t entertaining and it doesn’t make you reflect on your own life, why read it?


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## Steerpike (Aug 16, 2013)

I'll read it so long as it's just entertaining. If it does something more, that's great, but not a requirement. Depends on my mood. I'm not sure I've read many fantasy novels that make me reflect on my own life or challenge my world view, to be honest.


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## Chessie (Aug 16, 2013)

Steerpike, I haven't either. I was referring to popular literature in general, the classics. And stories of that nature can be deeply entertaining. I mean, look at Pride and Prejudice.


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## Daichungak (Aug 20, 2013)

BWFoster78 said:


> So, do you make achieving this element of surprise your first priority with your writing?



Maybe not the first priority, but one of the first certainly.  Another of the most important priorities in my writing is making my reader unsure if any given character will be alive or dead at the end of the chapter, but ensuring that they have a passionate desire for one outcome of the other.


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