# Fourth Race of My Universe (Feedback and Opinions Appreciated)



## Ankari (Jul 18, 2012)

Again, I share this with the MS community before I make it public.  What are your thoughts?  Does the picture match up with the description?  Do you like what you see?  By the way, they are clothed and have proper organs, but my artist likes for me to see the entire body before he clothes them.

*Description*

The Madakari share their height range with humans but are thinner of frame. Their skin varies in color from a sandy tone to a dark brown or a reddish brown. They tend to have thick, curly hair colored black, brown, red, or auburn. They have large, flat, red-hued teeth and powerful jaw muscles. Besides the ordinary gender traits, males also have a wider nose.

The Madakari possess an ability to grow a crystal coating over any part of their skin. The choice is a conscious one that causes the hair of that area to fall out. This coating, called kamin, offers superb protection against edged weapons. The process can take from three days for a small area like the head or up to two weeks to fully cover the body. To initiate the process Madakari must ingest minerals of the crystal they wish to grow. In times of peace a Madakari will choose his diet carefully to create a coat of the purest color. In time of hardship the coat will be of various colors. The crystal coating will grow a finger width thick. The Madakari can consciously choose to release their coating; either all at once or piece by piece.


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## Sheilawisz (Jul 18, 2012)

Hello Ankari, thanks for sharing with us once again information about your races and also the wonderful work of your artist!!

I would say that all the creatures of your universe that I have seen (this and the others) look somewhat scary to me, like something that I would not want to meet personally somewhere. Also I have noticed that all have too human-like shapes, but in this race I like that they have crystal parts and that they have to ingest minerals to grow them =)

It would be interesting to see the same creature wearing the usual clothing of this race.


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## ThinkerX (Jul 18, 2012)

Dang - I don't want to put this forth, but I think I have to.

More and more, your races are coming across as 'mutant humans'.  Yes, they have cool looks and nifty abilities, and yes, I'm certain you've put a LOT of work into building them up, but the 'mutant human' impression is getting stronger.  Now...if you have some overarching way to account for this, that is one thing.  Otherwise...could be some serious problems.

I would suggest either making some of them *really* weird - dig into Lovecraft or the more obscure mythologies - or just make some of them humans who've adapted to harsh/unusual conditions.


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## Ankari (Jul 18, 2012)

@ThinkerX: I know what you're saying.  Here is the reasoning and limitations I've placed on myself:


All races can interbreed.
This suggests anatomy (except for one scenerio) that are human-like.
This also suggests (again, with one except) a common, distant heritage.
Races that seem to be are mutant in the scientific sense of the word.  They have adapted to their extreme climate (whether naturally or divinely I will leave that open).


I am taking this direction from Steven Erickson.  He has the Moranth (bug-like humanoids), the Forkrul Assail (tall, double-jointed alien-like humanoids), humans, Tiste (elfish people), Imass (an older version of humans), Jaghut (giants gifted with extreme power), teblor (ogres), Trell (appearing to be a cross of orc and human but intelligent) and so much more.  These all were humanoids that could interbreed.  

I will admit, he had a few races that were completely alien.  I haven't lost that lesson on my world.  I have so many other aspects of the world to expand on, but these races are all located on a singular continent (the one I'm building).

I didn't write that in defense, but rather, to share my thinking.  What is your feedback with that in mind?

@Shielaweiiz: Thanks for your feedback.  They are not something to fear.  Believe it or not, these guys are somewhat peaceful.


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## ThinkerX (Jul 18, 2012)

> •All races can interbreed.



Basic question - why?  Is this essential to the plot?


> •This suggests anatomy (except for one scenerio) that are human-like.
> •This also suggests (again, with one except) a common, distant heritage.
> •Races that seem to be are mutant in the scientific sense of the word. They have adapted to their extreme climate (whether naturally or divinely I will leave that open).



So...do you need them to be separate races, or would it work just as well if they were humans who'd made adaptations?

To me, it looks like (from what I can remember offhand) that one of the prior races might as well be eskimo types, human tribes adapted to arctic conditions.  Others might be comparable to the tribesmen of the Sahara desert.


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## Ankari (Jul 18, 2012)

> Basic question - why? Is this essential to the plot?



It's essential to the universe, which, by extension, is essential to the novels.



> So...do you need them to be separate races, or would it work just as well if they were humans who'd made adaptations?



If you're talking about a million years of separation, different physical characteristics (one race is up to 8 feet while another one is at 5 feet), unique abilities, different belief systems, different language and cultures, you have to think that they are different races.


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## Mindfire (Jul 18, 2012)

Wow. Wish I could afford a character artist. Looks pretty awesome I think. Matches the description fairly well.


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## Ankari (Jul 18, 2012)

Mindfire said:


> Wow. Wish I could afford a character artist. Looks pretty awesome I think. Matches the description fairly well.



I'm not sure your budget, but this guy is a steal.  Great quality, awesome communication, and trustworthy.  If you ever need someone, I'll refer you to him.


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## Lorna (Jul 20, 2012)

It must be awesome having a character artist. 

When you said a 'crystal' coating to the skin I imagined the crystals would be clear. That's how I understand the term 'crystal' although it can be used to refer to a wide variety of gem stones. I noticed the ones in the picture are yellow and brownish. Could it be the case each Madakari clan has a slightly different crystal- ie. amethyst, gypsum? 

One thing I noticed missing which I'd want to see from the description is the big red teeth. 

Otherwise it's really cool.


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## Ankari (Jul 20, 2012)

Lorna said:


> It must be awesome having a character artist.
> 
> When you said a 'crystal' coating to the skin I imagined the crystals would be clear. That's how I understand the term 'crystal' although it can be used to refer to a wide variety of gem stones. I noticed the ones in the picture are yellow and brownish. Could it be the case each Madakari clan has a slightly different crystal- ie. amethyst, gypsum?
> 
> ...



It is awesome to have a character artist.  It gives me a great reference when I start incorporating the races into my novel.

As to your point about crystals.  Crystals is a physical state of an element.  Most elements, when their atoms are arranged properly, can be crystals.  Madakari _eat_ minerals that are turned into crystals.  That is why they have large red teeth (the red comes from the iron content in them.  Like beavers).  So they can have clear crystals, green, or any color they choose.



> Otherwise it's really cool.



Thanks, I'll tell my artist


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## Ankari (Jul 30, 2012)

Updated the image (he has clothes on)


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## Svrtnsse (Jul 30, 2012)

My first though was: How do they move when their joints are encased in crystal?


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## Ankari (Jul 30, 2012)

Svrtnsse said:


> My first though was: How do they move when their joints are encased in crystal?



It's a willful growth.  Meaning, they can control where the crystals grow and where they don't.  The character depicted in the picture is an extreme example.  They normally would grow crystals along their forearm (like a buckler) and/or chest.


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## Svrtnsse (Jul 30, 2012)

Ankari said:


> It's a willful growth.  Meaning, they can control where the crystals grow and where they don't.  The character depicted in the picture is an extreme example.  They normally would grow crystals along their forearm (like a buckler) and/or chest.



Gotcha. I was thinking there were maybe little gaps between the crystal or perhaps a supple crystal-infused coating of some sort.

Is this purely a defensive/protective measure or does it serve any other purpose like impressing members of the opposite sex?


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## Ankari (Jul 30, 2012)

Svrtnsse said:


> Gotcha. I was thinking there were maybe little gaps between the crystal or perhaps a supple crystal-infused coating of some sort.
> 
> Is this purely a defensive/protective measure or does it serve any other purpose like impressing members of the opposite sex?



Actually, they can and do allow space between the crystals for flexibility.

And to your second point, I hadn't thought of that.  What a great idea!  

Thanks.


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## Svrtnsse (Jul 30, 2012)

Ankari said:


> [...] In times of peace a Madakari will choose his diet carefully to create a coat of the purest color. In time of hardship the coat will be of various colors. [...].



This part got me thinking as well. Will differnet colours and the purity of the colours reflect social standing? A rich/powerful leader may be able to consume larger amounts of more expensive minerals and thus show of his wealth/power.


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## Ankari (Jul 30, 2012)

Svrtnsse said:


> This part got me thinking as well. Will differnet colours and the purity of the colours reflect social standing? A rich/powerful leader may be able to consume larger amounts of more expensive minerals and thus show of his wealth/power.



That was to imply that they can choose their minerals carefully, allowing for a purer coating.  I'm really liking your suggestion of using it as a social means as well.  I'm thinking of a marriage ceremony where the suitor must grow a suitable coating that the family of the woman approve or disapprove.  When approved, he is to remain in that coat until he weds.  The coating can be shed and turned into jewelry.


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## It's a Squirrel...Moose? (Jul 31, 2012)

An interesting concept - I freely admit I haven't got round to reading the rest of your race pieces, so some comments may be the result of ignorance.

The crystal-growing concept is an interesting one - and of course any race that can consume minerals such as iron is not something I have wide experience of, but I do have to question some of your reasonings:

1) The slender frame - why? Maybe I'm thinking too much of the typical-dwarf and earth elemental tropes, but normally creatures of the earth (which, the Madakari seem related too) are described as much more bulky then humans; was there any reason why you chose slender of frame? You mention extreme climates, what is the traditional climate of the Madakari? Is it mountainous?
2) The crystal coating itself: does it form a natural armour, if so what does it defend against? Or is it unrelated to enviromental survival and simply a mutation that has found a use as protection from bladed weapons?
3) Ingestion: In short, how do they eat minerals like iron? Can they chew it? If so, their jaw muscles must be immense which isn't shown in the picture or description. How do they digest the metal? This might be nit-picking - but the acid needed to dissolve iron is very, very strong - or is there some magical means behind it?

and

4) how can they control the crystal growth? Again, I might just be nit-picking (and I admit the biology of crystal growths is most likely a very complex area!) but it still bares questioning - can they control in minute details how the crystals grow? Is there some mechanism, like a ritual or a compound they apply to their skin to make the reaction occur?

However, all in all this strikes me as interesting and well thought through concept for a race - I'm interested in reading more!


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## Mindfire (Jul 31, 2012)

I'd like to cut in and provide possible answers to Squirrel's questions if I may.



It's a Squirrel...Moose? said:


> 1) The slender frame - why? Maybe I'm thinking too much of the typical-dwarf and earth elemental tropes, but normally creatures of the earth (which, the Madakari seem related too) are described as much more bulky then humans; was there any reason why you chose slender of frame? You mention extreme climates, what is the traditional climate of the Madakari? Is it mountainous?



Well, the crystal growing reminds me of stalagmites and stalactites and they can be pretty slender. So why not the Madakari? The earth elemental = bulky trope comes from the idea that more bulk = more physical strength, and the earth element is associated with physical strength. Other than that there's really no reasoning for it, so why not subvert it? Besides, the earth element can be associated with more than just physical strength. It can also be associated with richest and material possessions as well as craft and artifice (dwarves and gnomes are usually portrayed as excellent craftsmen remember), and I think that's the side of the earth element that the Madakari are stylistically affiliated with. Or at least that's what I see.



> 2) The crystal coating itself: does it form a natural armour, if so what does it defend against? Or is it unrelated to enviromental survival and simply a mutation that has found a use as protection from bladed weapons?



Well, if a Madakari somehow manages to get their hands on a large supply of carbon, they could grow diamond crystals on their skin, which are not only valuable but also the hardest naturally occurring material in the known universe. So yeah. That'd be one heck of an armor plating I think.



> 3) Ingestion: In short, how do they eat minerals like iron? Can they chew it? If so, their jaw muscles must be immense which isn't shown in the picture or description. How do they digest the metal? This might be nit-picking - but the acid needed to dissolve iron is very, very strong - or is there some magical means behind it?



Madakari might have extremely strong stomach acid and powerful jaw muscles. Or their cells might be able to absorb the minerals at the molecular level. Or perhaps their body temperature is far hotter than a human's, which loosens the bonds in the compounds and facilitates easier absorption. Of course, if their internal body temperatures really are that hot, they'd need to have incredibly durable bodies (which they do by the look of it) and also an effective way to cool their skin, perhaps by excreting fluids as we do (which could be linked to crystal formation) or by using their hair as a heat sink.



> 4) how can they control the crystal growth? Again, I might just be nit-picking (and I admit the biology of crystal growths is most likely a very complex area!) but it still bares questioning - can they control in minute details how the crystals grow? Is there some mechanism, like a ritual or a compound they apply to their skin to make the reaction occur?



My guess is that the excrete dissolved minerals, perhaps in some kind of sweat-like fluid, and when the fluid evaporates it leaves the crystals behind. Of course, this factor would also be combined with their high body heat and some magical elements as well. As for how they control it, perhaps they have conscious control of their skin cells.


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## Ankari (Aug 1, 2012)

> 1) The slender frame - why? Maybe I'm thinking too much of the typical-dwarf and earth elemental tropes, but normally creatures of the earth (which, the Madakari seem related too) are described as much more bulky then humans; was there any reason why you chose slender of frame? You mention extreme climates, what is the traditional climate of the Madakari? Is it mountainous?



Thanks for your feedback and curiosity.  I need this kind of stuff to help trigger more thought.  For their slender frame, it comes down to their original world.  They come from a place called the Realm of Light (the sun is always up) which has higher temperatures than even the hotter deserts you'd find on earth.  While doing a little research, I found that the smaller the surface area (slender) the less heat they generate to avoid dehydration.  I used this concept when creating another race, but in reverse (the omlaka) since they come a frozen, dark realm.  

While creating the races from the Realm of Light, I wanted to show evidence that each displays a trait deriving from the four main elements (Earth, Fire, Water, Wind).  I've created the fire (kasari) and earth (madakari).  Those interested in my novels will only meet these two races, at least for the time being.  I already know what I want the water race to be but I am having a tough time with the air element.  



> 2) The crystal coating itself: does it form a natural armour, if so what does it defend against? Or is it unrelated to enviromental survival and simply a mutation that has found a use as protection from bladed weapons?



It serves as armor.  The Realm of Light has very little means of producing intense heat (odd concept, I know) since vegetation is so sparse.  Wearing armor would dehydrate and kill the wearer quickly.  They do use weapons though.  The crystal coating, as mentioned somewhere else, isn't meant to cover the entire body, only a small portion to allow protection.  Typically, a madakari warrior would have his free arm coated in crystal as well as his chest.  

As to the question of mutation, I'm leaving that up to the imagination.  They follow a faith that speaks of each race the descendants of each element.  



> “Know that I am Kar, Creator of the universe. You have been fashioned to dwell within the earth below, so give thanks to your Lord. I have called into existence four souls that are to be different from each other, so that you may know one another and know of Me. Of what would you have Me cloth your souls?” The first spoke and said, “Fire,” the second spoke and said, “Water,” the third spoke and said, “Air,” and the fourth spoke and said, “Earth.”



You can find more, if your interested, on my website.  The faith is named Risya.

So is it a mutation, or divinely given?  Is the divine the catalyst for the mutation?  That is something i want readers to think about.



> 3) Ingestion: In short, how do they eat minerals like iron? Can they chew it? If so, their jaw muscles must be immense which isn't shown in the picture or description. How do they digest the metal? This might be nit-picking - but the acid needed to dissolve iron is very, very strong - or is there some magical means behind it?



I left out something in my description because I haven't decided on a few details, or if I am going to use it.  My thoughts are that they require to sun bath to get the crystals to grow.  Energy from the sun, through a little fantasy biophysics, and you get crystals.  What do you think?



> 4) how can they control the crystal growth? Again, I might just be nit-picking (and I admit the biology of crystal growths is most likely a very complex area!) but it still bares questioning - can they control in minute details how the crystals grow? Is there some mechanism, like a ritual or a compound they apply to their skin to make the reaction occur?



I use the example of monks that can raise their body temperature by meditating on the act.  I hear that a monk can sit in a field of snow, raise his body temperature, and melt all the snow around him.  Accounts state that the monk can get up as if its a spring day in Southern France.  Madakari have to focus on the act.  They can't just say "crystals, grow on my knuckles."  Its a meditation period that requires some time to complete.  How much time?  I'm still settling on that.  

Thanks again!


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## Ankari (Aug 1, 2012)

Mindfire, 

I'm glad that you posted.  Your ideas make me rethink what I've created, which is great.  It's always good to go over your ideas and make sure they stack up.

I do want to point out that the madakari would "eat" a lot of nonmetallic minerals.  They may have traces of iron, but they will focus on the rock-like elements more.  Also, in case anyone is wondering, when a madakari ingests minerals, he doesn't have to turn them into a coating.  he can have them collect on his bones, making his bone mass denser.  

The choice would allow for storage of minerals, and give him a different kind of protection/weapon.  Imagine getting hit by a guy with an arm two times denser than a humans.  

Thanks for your interest!


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## J. S. Elliot (Aug 9, 2012)

Sorry about such a belated response, Ankari. (My computer is deader than dead, so until I can get a new one this weekend, I again, won't be on. Kinda why I haven't been on in the first place, XD. But, I digress.)

I do like the set-up of this new race, though. The crystal growths and potential for culture around them certainly have a lot of options, though I am curious. While someone suggested using them as means of also getting the opposite sex's attention, I had an additional thought to that idea. Do they have regulations on what sorts of minerals different classes are "allowed" to consume? And following that train of thought, does the gem-esque quality of their growth reflect their rank?

How do their ranks form? Is it based on strength, or is it birth related? What sorts of terrain have they adapted to, since you mentioned it already?

And, a couple of other random thoughts:
How are their racial relations? What of political?
What sorts of things count as a taboo in their society?
Do they have any particular 'rite of adulthood'? 
What sort of marriage ceremony do they have?
Are they confined to gender roles? What are they?
How advanced is their society, be it in magical or normal sense?


I have a couple more, but I don't want to give you a complete wall of questions, XD. I look forward to hearing back from you, though. ^^


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