# Raising Hostages



## Scribe Lord (Sep 15, 2015)

I'm trying to do some research for a WIP and am having a hard time coming up with anything. Basically, I'm looking for real world cases in which a high-born child was taken as a hostage and raised in a completely foreign court. Preferably a child who also grew up to be a pretty big deal. 

Something like how Armenius was taken as a child hostage and raised by the Roman Empire, only to turn around, 'betray' and defeat them at the Battle of Teutoburg Forest.

The only other example I found is Vlad the Impaler who I'm still reading up on.

Anyways if anyone can think of any other examples that would be awesome. Even just a name would help. Thanks.


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## Incanus (Sep 15, 2015)

I know you're looking for real world examples, but maybe a changling could work with your idea?


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## johnsonjoshuak (Sep 15, 2015)

I'm sure there were some cases in history, but I'm curious as to why you're limiting yourself to history as a resource.

Obviously you don't want to rip someone off wholesale, but why not look to other works of fiction for some idea as to how other people handled it.

I think the most prominent example (especially recently) of how this is handled is Theon Greyjoy in A Song of Ice and Fire. He was taken hostage as the last heir to the Iron Islands and used to keep his father in line. GRRM does an excellent job of showing how this effected both Theon's image of himself and his father's image of him. Very excellent work, imo.


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## Scribe Lord (Sep 15, 2015)

Well, I wanted several real life cases to work with as a base. For the simple reason that they actually happened. Besides, I don't know, I just love history. Though I do eventually intend to read how some fantasy writers handled it.

On a side note, does Theon Greyjoy become a POV character then? I've only read the first book.


@Incanus: My clearly uneducated self didn't even know what you meant by 'changeling' until I looked it up. That's actually a pretty cool concept.


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## X Equestris (Sep 15, 2015)

Yes, Theon becomes a POV character in the second book.  I think his first chapter is fairly close to the beginning.

Arminius is a good example.  Perhaps one of the best, from a historical standpoint.


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## X Equestris (Sep 15, 2015)

Tigranes the Great of Armenia is another good example of a hostage becoming a powerful, successful leader, but if I'm not mistaken he was already an adult when taken hostage.  Still, you could tweak that detail to make it work for your story.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tigranes_the_Great


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## valiant12 (Sep 16, 2015)

> I think the most prominent example (especially recently) of how this is handled is Theon Greyjoy in A Song of Ice and Fire. He was taken hostage as the last heir to the Iron Islands and used to keep his father in line. GRRM does an excellent job of showing how this effected both Theon's image of himself and his father's image of him. Very excellent work, imo.


 I'm very disappointed that you  mentioned Theon ( a fictional character ) but forget about  Vlad the Impaler .

Vlad the Impaler was held hostage by the Ottomans. They regretted that later in a big way - OMG Facts - The World's #1 Fact Source

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlad_the_Impaler


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## Tom (Sep 16, 2015)

I don't know if Mary Jemison would be an example. However, her story is still worth checking out. She was a child of Irish immigrants who was captured by the Seneca in the 1700's, and was raised as a Seneca. (This was a common practice among the Haudenosaunee--captives were adopted into their tribes to replace those killed in war.) She married a powerful Seneca chief and rose to some prominence both within the Haudenosaunee community and among white settlers.


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## Incanus (Sep 16, 2015)

Scribe Lord said:


> @Incanus: My clearly uneducated self didn't even know what you meant by 'changeling' until I looked it up. That's actually a pretty cool concept.



Since we're talking fantasy here, it's what immediately leapt to my mind.  I'm glad you found it even though I spelled it wrong initially!  I've always really liked the idea.


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## Tom (Sep 16, 2015)

Incanus said:


> Since we're talking fantasy here, it's what immediately leapt to my mind.  I'm glad you found it even though I spelled it wrong initially!  I've always really liked the idea.



That's probably my favorite part of Faerie lore! I'm using it in my writings a lot.


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## ThinkerX (Sep 16, 2015)

Kodiak Island in Alaska.  

Hmmm...

The Russians were in Alaska in the 18th century because they wanted seal pelts.  Seal hunting is both dangerous and labor intensive.  Having other things to do, they forced the native Eskimos and Aleuts to do the hunting for them.  To ensure compliance, they took children (and adults) from each village to Kodiak Island, which they then made off limits to the native populace.


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## skip.knox (Sep 17, 2015)

Would Alexander the Great do? Raised in Thebes by Epaminondas, who taught him a trick or two.


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## Scribe Lord (Sep 17, 2015)

skip.knox said:


> Would Alexander the Great do? Raised in Thebes by Epaminondas, who taught him a trick or two.



I don't remember this from reading a book on Alexander the Great. An internet search came up with nothing. I'm thinking it might just be a slip of the fingers but if not can you confirm this?


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## Scribe Lord (Sep 17, 2015)

Tom Nimenai said:


> I don't know if Mary Jemison would be an example. However, her story is still worth checking out. She was a child of Irish immigrants who was captured by the Seneca in the 1700's, and was raised as a Seneca. (This was a common practice among the Haudenosaunee--captives were adopted into their tribes to replace those killed in war.) She married a powerful Seneca chief and rose to some prominence both within the Haudenosaunee community and among white settlers.



Was looking for some kind of example that involved a woman. This helps. Thanks!




ThinkerX said:


> Kodiak Island in Alaska.
> 
> Hmmm...
> 
> The Russians were in Alaska in the 18th century because they wanted seal pelts.  Seal hunting is both dangerous and labor intensive.  Having other things to do, they forced the native Eskimos and Aleuts to do the hunting for them.  To ensure compliance, they took children (and adults) from each village to Kodiak Island, which they then made off limits to the native populace.



While not exactly what I'm looking for, this basically sparked a whole series of ideas in my mind. Main plot for a short story I just started writing. So thanks thanks for the distraction I guess


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## X Equestris (Sep 17, 2015)

Scribe Lord said:


> I don't remember this from reading a book on Alexander the Great. An internet search came up with nothing. I'm thinking it might just be a slip of the fingers but if not can you confirm this?



 It was Philip II, Alexander's father, who was the hostage in Thebes.


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## valiant12 (Sep 17, 2015)

Tokugawa Ieyasu was a hostage at a young age.


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## ThinkerX (Sep 17, 2015)

> While not exactly what I'm looking for, this basically sparked a whole series of ideas in my mind. Main plot for a short story I just started writing. So thanks thanks for the distraction I guess



You are welcome.  Worth pointing out:  the Russians were a pretty brutal bunch lots of dead natives, lots of half caste children.  Most despised of the lot were the aristocrats, who were greed driven alcoholics and viewed pretty much everybody else as scum, Russians and natives alike.  Only reason the aristocrats were not massacred was because they were the only ones who knew the secrets of celestial navigation.  As it is, their reckless drunken greed wrecked an impressive number of ships.


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## skip.knox (Sep 17, 2015)

Oops. X Equistris has it right.


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## valiant12 (Sep 18, 2015)

> You are welcome. Worth pointing out: the Russians were a pretty brutal bunch lots of dead natives, lots of half caste children. Most despised of the lot were the aristocrats, who were greed driven alcoholics and viewed pretty much everybody else as scum, Russians and natives alike. Only reason the aristocrats were not massacred was because they were the only ones who knew the secrets of celestial navigation. As it is, their reckless drunken greed wrecked an impressive number of ships.




Describing russians as a drunken incompetent villains is funny. But it's a stereotype. An offensive stereotype. Its like calling french people cheese eating surrender monkey.


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## ThinkerX (Sep 18, 2015)

> Describing russians as a drunken incompetent villains is funny. But it's a stereotype. An offensive stereotype. Its like calling french people cheese eating surrender monkey.



I wouldn't call the Russian settlers 'incompetent,' as they did establish viable communities in a harsh, unforgiving wilderness.  But the rest of their behavior is very, very difficult to whitewash.   For a relatively soft example, the Russian settlers who founded the town I dwell in were literally out and out bandits.  One thuggish explorer in the Aleutian Islands decided to test how powerful his muskets were by lining up the natives and shooting them.  Musket ball went through nine natives.  

Then again, the natives were not exactly good people either; shortly before the Russians arrived they had a little genocidal war in my area.  Three big battles and a four digit body count.


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