# Go Set a Watchman



## Incanus (Jul 9, 2015)

Anyone here plan on reading this when it comes out next week?

I’d say this is a pretty significant literary event.  While I’m not a fan of the concept ‘the great American novel’, if there is a book that deserves such an appellation, it would probably have to be To Kill a Mockingbird.  I think Harper Lee is well deserving of all the accolades she has received over the years.

Don’t know when I’ll get to this one, as my reading list is overwhelming.  Sooner or later.  It makes me happy just knowing it’ll be out there when I’m ready.


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## Caged Maiden (Jul 9, 2015)

I love To Kill a Mockingbird.  One of my favorite stories, and I read it as a kid and bought it again recently, but it's in a box, so i haven't re-read it.  Thanks for sharing this, I might have to check it out.


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## Feo Takahari (Jul 11, 2015)

Relevant: http://www.themarysue.com/harper-lee-go-set-a-watchman-atticus-finch-racist/ Think we can chalk this one up to alternate universe? (Tom Robinson was acquitted in this timeline, so it's definitely not 100% accurate to To Kill a Mockingbird.)


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## Steerpike (Jul 12, 2015)

I feel kind of bad for Harper Lee. The book was written well before TKAM, and from what I've read isn't as skillful. She never wanted the book published throughout most of her life, and now when she is old and, I believe, suffering from mental infirmities, suddenly her relations announce that she wants it published? I don't buy that. I think it was an old draft of the story that initially ended up set further back in time and became TKAM. It's not accurate to TKAM because of that - she took the story, moved it back in time and changed the POV character to Scout for her classic novel. I'm not convinced at all that Lee herself wanted this book published, and I don't intend to buy it.


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## Reaver (Jul 12, 2015)

I'm in agreement with Steerpike. I believe that Ms. Lee made it very clear that she only ever wanted to publish that one story and let that be the end of it. 

This reminds me of a cash grab being made by her relatives just like Christopher Tolkien publishing many of his father's rough drafts and notes.

JRRT made his feelings about showing off any of his rough drafts very clear by saying: 'We must be satisfied with the soup that is set before us, and not desire to see the bones of the ox out of which it has been boiled.'


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## Mythopoet (Jul 12, 2015)

Reaver said:


> I'm in agreement with Steerpike. I believe that Ms. Lee made it very clear that she only ever wanted to publish that one story and let that be the end of it.
> 
> This reminds me of a cash grab being made by her relatives just like Christopher Tolkien publishing many of his father's rough drafts and notes.
> 
> JRRT made his feelings about showing off any of his rough drafts very clear by saying: 'We must be satisfied with the soup that is set before us, and not desire to see the bones of the ox out of which it has been boiled.'



I think what Christopher Tolkien did was different in that Tolkien notes and rough drafts weren't presented as "newly found famous author's novel published for the first time!" They were thoughtfully presented as a work of literary scholarship and in such a way that NO ONE could mistake it for a new or different story from what was already published. As a scholar of Old English literature himself, I think Tolkien could appreciate that. Though I'm sure he would have been skeptical of the value of literary scholarship of his own work, his fans would just have to disagree with him. I've never learned so much about storytelling as I have from studying the long process of the creation of the Middle-earth legendarium.


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## Reaver (Jul 13, 2015)

Mythopoet said:


> I think what Christopher Tolkien did was different in that Tolkien notes and rough drafts weren't presented as "newly found famous author's novel published for the first time!" They were thoughtfully presented as a work of literary scholarship and in such a way that NO ONE could mistake it for a new or different story from what was already published. As a scholar of Old English literature himself, I think Tolkien could appreciate that. Though I'm sure he would have been skeptical of the value of literary scholarship of his own work, his fans would just have to disagree with him. I've never learned so much about storytelling as I have from studying the long process of the creation of the Middle-earth legendarium.



You make a good point. However, my opinion is that both works are nothing more than a shameless cash grab devoid of any good intentions toward their respective authors and their fans.

Maybe I'm wrong. I'm not a mind reader and I won't presume to know what these people were thinking. Having said that, my opinion stands firm.


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## kennyc (Jul 13, 2015)

Reaver said:


> You make a good point. However, my opinion is that both works are nothing more than a shameless cash grab devoid of any good intentions toward their respective authors and their fans.
> 
> Maybe I'm wrong. I'm not a mind reader and I won't presume to know what these people were thinking. Having said that, my opinion stands firm.



Yep agreed. I think Go Kill a Watchman was the novel she had to write in order to get to her real material - To Kill a Mockingbird.  
(even TKAM was extensively re-written with input from the editor over a period of two years)

I have no plans to read it, but the feeding frenzy is fun to watch.


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## Incanus (Jul 13, 2015)

Reaver said:


> You make a good point. However, my opinion is that both works are nothing more than a shameless cash grab devoid of any good intentions toward their respective authors and their fans.
> 
> Maybe I'm wrong. I'm not a mind reader and I won't presume to know what these people were thinking. Having said that, my opinion stands firm.



I'm not buying this as far as Christopher Tolkien goes.  If it was a shameless cash-grab he was after, wouldn't he have created some cheap, dumbed-down LOTR-like stories, pure entertainment (more like Peter Jackson)?  HOME is a highly detailed scholarly work that couldn't possibly interest huge amounts of people.  There is simply no other person qualified to present us with this lovely, behind-the-scenes material.  Also, fans were clamoring for this stuff, why not give it to them?

As far as Go Set a Watchman, the motives brought up here seem speculative.  Yes, it won't fit squarely with TKAM, and almost certainly won't be as good--as I've seen stated a hundred times, everyone's first novel is crap.  I'm interested in the creative process and I'd very much like to take a peek at a little bit of a wonderful author's development.


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## Devor (Jul 14, 2015)

It looks like there may be a follow up to this.

Harper Lee Announces Third Novel, "My Excellent Caretaker Deserves My Entire Fortune" - The Onion - America's Finest News Source


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## Incanus (Jul 14, 2015)

Not trying to second guess anyone, or put words in peoples mouths, but--does my interest in wanting to learn more about the creative development of a talented writer make me a questionable, or bad person?  At least in this one instance?


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## Mythopoet (Jul 14, 2015)

Incanus said:


> Not trying to second guess anyone, or put words in peoples mouths, but--does my interest in wanting to learn more about the creative development of a talented writer make me a questionable, or bad person?  At least in this one instance?



No, of course not. It's clearly Ms. Lee's lawyers and publisher who are acting questionable in this situation.


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## Reaver (Jul 15, 2015)

Incanus said:


> I'm not buying this as far as Christopher Tolkien goes.  If it was a shameless cash-grab he was after, wouldn't he have created some cheap, dumbed-down LOTR-like stories, pure entertainment (more like Peter Jackson)?



Well, chiefly because Christopher Tolkien is an editor, not a writer and he's a greedy old coot.  Can't blame him though. I'd do the same. To his credit, he has protected his father's legacy pretty well. To that end, I doubt that he's willing to let other writers sully the mythos that his father created (beyond Petey Jackson and his sycophants).  Again, I'd do the same were I in that position.

Truth be told, I respect him more than Brian Herbert, who in my opinion is shamelessly riding on his father's coattails, writing crap novels and slapping his father's name on it just to make a quick buck.



Incanus said:


> Not trying to second guess anyone, or put words in peoples mouths, but--does my interest in wanting to learn more about the creative development of a talented writer make me a questionable, or bad person?  At least in this one instance?



Not at all. I can certainly see why true fans of Tolkien want to take a peek into the mind of the man who single-handedly redefined the genre. However, I do question the motives of Christopher Tolkien and the vultures circling Ms. Lee.

**LEGAL NOTICE: The views and opinions expressed here by Reaver are solely his own and do not reflect those of Mythic Scribes, its creators or anyone else here at Mythic Scribes.**


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## Mythopoet (Jul 15, 2015)

Reaver said:


> Well, chiefly because Christopher Tolkien is an editor, not a writer and he's a greedy old coot.  Can't blame him though. I'd do the same. To his credit, he has protected his father's legacy pretty well. To that end, I doubt that he's willing to let other writers sully the mythos that his father created (beyond Petey Jackson and his sycophants).  Again, I'd do the same were I in that position.
> 
> Truth be told, I respect him more than Brian Herbert, who in my opinion is shamelessly riding on his father's coattails, writing crap novels and slapping his father's name on it just to make a quick buck.
> 
> ...



Nothing has ever given me the impression that Christopher Tolkien is a "greedy old coot". I question where you have gotten this impression from. Rather, it is clear to me that Christopher was incredibly close to his father and knew better than anyone else what his father's wishes for his work were, hence why he was given control over the estate. Everything that Christopher has had published has been done in an incredibly thoughtful and professional manner. I see nothing to indicate greed. 

I agree with you about Brian Herbert though. I once read a couple of his "House" books and have since boycotted anything with his name on it, despite the Dune series being one of my all time favorites. Talk about sullying a legacy. Brian Herbert could give master classes on it.


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## Reaver (Jul 15, 2015)

Mythopoet said:


> Nothing has ever given me the impression that Christopher Tolkien is a "greedy old coot". I question where you have gotten this impression from.



I'm sure that the mountains of cash that he and the Tolkien family has made from selling all the stuff he's published to his father's ravenous fans has in no way influenced his decision making.


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## Mythopoet (Jul 15, 2015)

Reaver said:


> I'm sure that the mountains of cash that he and the Tolkien family has made from selling all the stuff he's published to his father's ravenous fans has in no way influenced his decision making.



So because publishing his father's writings makes money, that must obviously the reason he did it. For the money. Not to fulfill his father's dreams or in response to a growing fanbase clamoring for more or even to satisfy his own scholarly urges. It must be the money. Right.


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## Reaver (Jul 15, 2015)

Just my opinion. Never said it was a fact. Thanks for participating.


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## Mythopoet (Jul 15, 2015)

Reaver said:


> Just my opinion. Never said it was a fact. Thanks for participating.



Well, it's just my opinion that it is very low behavior to characterize a human being as a "greedy old coot" based on NOTHING other than your own assumption that it MUST be about the money and then justify it with a lazy excuse like "just my opinion". Honestly.


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## Reaver (Jul 15, 2015)

Free speech and being able to express ourselves is an important part of being a member here at Mythic Scribes. You've expressed your opinion that my behavior is low and that I'm lazy. 

I just want it to be clear that I'm not offended by this. In fact, I find it quite refreshing and bordering on cathartic.

Obviously you feel very strongly about this and I apologize if I've offended you.

Thanks again for participating in this thread and exercising your ability to express your opinion.


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## Incanus (Jul 15, 2015)

Christopher Tolkien is awesome.  I would trust no one else with the task.  He obviously put in a TON of work and thought into presenting us with this stuff.  Not sure how filthy rich he might be, but he should certainly be compensated for the work he did.  Makes sense.  In a totaly different class than Brian Herbert.  One is shameless, one is not.


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## Legendary Sidekick (Jul 17, 2015)

I can see how the descendants of famous authors want to keep the legacy alive, but at the same time, these relatives benefit as well. On Sunday, I'm going to attend an exhibit on E.B. White. The exhibit is arranged by the author's grandniece, who my mother had lunch with this past Wednesday. My mom didn't know who the woman was, aside from being a friend of a friend. She found out after telling her my daughter just finished reading _Charlotte's Web._

The woman wrote a note to my daughter on her business card, stating she would like to meet her. Is she cashing in on her great uncle's success? Yeah. But does she genuinely love what her uncle has written? I believe she does.

I can't say the same for Harper Lee's family. _To Kill a Mockingbird_ is a beautiful story as it is. To release an older version of the story that changes who Atticus Finch is creates an unpleasant controversy that, to me, seems disrespectful to the author, her classic tale and its fans. (EDIT - Or maybe they do love TKaM but have a funny way of showing it!)


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## Incanus (Jul 17, 2015)

Right.  I'd forgotten that the co-auther of the Elements of Style also wrote Charlotte's Web!  Thanks for that reminder.

But I don't think releasing an older version of the story 'changes' Atticus Finch, so much as shows his development.

Seeing that when in the early drafts of LoTR the hobbits reached The Prancing Pony and came across a wooden shoe wearing hobbit called 'Trotter', it didn't change the character of Aragorn one bit.  It just showed Tolkien hadn't discovered the correct character right off the bat.  Maybe not the best example, but I think the idea holds.


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## Gryphos (Jul 21, 2015)

I wouldn't bother reading 'Go Set a Watchman'

Nobody lives Harper Lee ever after.


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## Nimue (Jul 21, 2015)

I wish there was a "No Thanks" button for that pun...


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## Legendary Sidekick (Jul 21, 2015)

@Nimue, I thanked Gryphos, removed my thanks, and thanked him again. So he was sort of "no-thanked."

I want to remove his thanks again though. When I was in a Kick-a-Thon charity event 20+ years ago, I executed 1346 kicks in 30 minutes, placing me 5th in my karate club. The guy who placed 4th kicked 1351 times, so I hate the number 1351 (Gryphos' rep now) and like the number 1346 (Gryphos' rep without my intervention).

There. In a fit of nostalgic jealousy, I removed thanks and added it back again. It was therapeutic. I'm over it now.

Pfft… I'll bet "4th-Place Sal" didn't do a flying scissors kick for his 999th and 1000th.


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## Reaver (Jul 21, 2015)

Gryphos said:


> Nobody lives Harper Lee ever after.



GRRM! This comment makes me completely nonplussed!


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## Incanus (Jul 21, 2015)

I hate when I get nonplussed.  Usually I'm just plussed.


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## Gryphos (Jul 21, 2015)

I'm not sorry


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## Reaver (Jul 21, 2015)

Did no one get the joke? I will repeat it with emphasis on the funny.


*GRRM! *This comment makes me completely nonplussed!


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## Nimue (Jul 21, 2015)

I got it, I got it.  It gets another "No Thanks" from me.  I'm mentally figuring that into your rep count from now on!


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