# what kind of fantasy would this be?



## sashamerideth (Jan 19, 2012)

I am asking on behalf of a friend, not my story. She'd gotten feedback that she was calling it the wrong kind of fantasy. I can answer questions as needed if you need more information. 

Her world is set at the spiritual center of the universe, all energy flows through it. Some people, depending on parents can tap into this energy for elemental magic or shifting into animals, typically birds in the current story. Few people that can learn the magic actually do, as learning it is incredibly painful and can make the learner feel like they are dying. Magic is somewhat well understood by the ancient practitioners, but no two use the same techniques to achieve the same end. 

The planet has had slightly different technological progression but is fairly modern with cell phones, jeans, laptops and firearms. There are six or more distinct races, that started with archetypes but vary greatly. For example, her elven type people have an affinity for flame, love and alcohol.

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## Devor (Jan 19, 2012)

My guess is that the person was referring to the modern technology in a fantasy world.  It defies a lot of expectations which might turn off some people.


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## Butterfly (Jan 19, 2012)

Interesting... there is a sub-genre known as Science Fantasy - Star Wars and Lexx falls into it - it's a mix of the supernatural and spaceships = magic and technology, it sounds like it could be slotted into this somewhere, but I don't know if it has to be set in the future or a far flung galaxy to conform to the genre or not. I think it's a strong possibility though, but I might be wrong.


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## sashamerideth (Jan 19, 2012)

It has, a few of her rejection letters said they wouldn't know how to sell it. I may not be neutral, but the story is quite compelling. It's first person, present tense with a very strong narration.

It has been called both urban fantasy and high fantasy. I want to call it "sword and planet" sort of like the He-Man cartoons.

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## sashamerideth (Jan 19, 2012)

Butterfly said:
			
		

> Interesting... there is a sub-genre known as Science Fantasy - Star Wars and Lexx falls into it - it's a mix of the supernatural and spaceships = magic and technology, it sounds like it could be slotted into this somewhere, but I don't know if it has to be set in the future or a far flung galaxy to conform to the genre or not. I think it's a strong possibility though, but I might be wrong.



We have the far flung galaxy bit in there. It's certainly not earth.

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## Graham Irwin (Jan 19, 2012)

I must say, as a writer of unconventional fantasy myself, that there are no limits to the genre.

The story you are describing may be Science-Fiction-Fantasy, but such labels are restrictive.

I've taken to calling my stories mash-ups. The basic framework of my first trilogy is a quest, and it contains many elements of fantasy and mythology, such as towers, bridges, caves, sea monsters, etc. But it is also a speculative fiction as well, and a science fiction, and a political drama. I would hate to think that people were unhappy after reading it because there weren't dragons, or elves or something, but I don't know how to market it other than as a fantasy. The story is fantastical, concerning ancient books and an extinct race of 'gods', but I wanted to limit it to the magic in our natural world, like the aurora borealis, alpenglow or nuclear technology. 

Classic Fantasy has wizards and dragons and the like, certainly, but these elements are not essential for a story to be classified as fantasy. Magic and far-off worlds are not necessary in fantasy either. 

I haven't reached any conclusions in this post, but the issue of "genre" is one I think about often.


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## sashamerideth (Jan 19, 2012)

Graham Irwin said:
			
		

> I must say, as a writer of unconventional fantasy myself, that there are no limits to the genre.
> 
> The story you are describing may be Science-Fiction-Fantasy, but such labels are restrictive.
> 
> ...



Well, her MC is made king almost against his will and deals with political corruption, spies and one race are all assassins by birth. So far your response is her favorite, she has expressed the same frustrations at how limiting genre labels can be.

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## SeverinR (Jan 19, 2012)

I would say Sci-fi.
It is far enough from traditional fantasy... but wait, I believe Anne Maccaffery has fantasy books, that involve dragons in the future.

So if fantasy pubishers think its not theirs, try sci-fi.

I don't know: Magic is definately fantasy
but magic in modern or future technology would most commonly be in Sci-fi. (star wars-magic(the force) used in a future society.)


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## Sheilawisz (Jan 19, 2012)

That's Science Fantasy =)


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## sashamerideth (Jan 19, 2012)

Sheilawisz said:
			
		

> That's Science Fantasy =)



Her response, "but there's no science in it,  not even scientific magic"

It does have wizards, just by different names.

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## Sheilawisz (Jan 19, 2012)

Well, it's very difficult to tag the sub-genre without reading even a little of the story itself- You said that the story features cell phones, laptops and firearms (from that, I imagine that they also have jets and starships) that's science because it's technology, and it counts as an element found in Science Fantasy =)

Sword and Planet sounds accurate for this story, and that's derived from Science Fantasy.

Your friend's story sounds interesting, I wish she can get it published soon!!


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## sashamerideth (Jan 19, 2012)

Actually, no jets and no space travel. They have a space program about the state of ours in the 1960's, and not much by way of flight. They didn't develop flight because the people that really wanted to fly could shift into birds.

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## Devor (Jan 19, 2012)

sashamerideth said:


> It has, a few of her rejection letters said they wouldn't know how to sell it.



Tell them to sell it as a good book, damnit.  I'm serious.

What's the _pitch_ you're using?


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## sashamerideth (Jan 19, 2012)

Devor said:
			
		

> Tell them to sell it as a good book, damnit.  I'm serious.
> 
> What's the pitch you're using?



She was pitching it as high fantasy, but has recently started calling it young adult fantasy.

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## Devor (Jan 19, 2012)

sashamerideth said:


> She was pitching it as high fantasy, but has recently started calling it young adult fantasy.



Yeah, but what's the selling point that she makes in her cover letter or proposal or whatever it is that accompanies the manuscript?


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## sashamerideth (Jan 19, 2012)

Devor said:
			
		

> Yeah, but what's the selling point that she makes in her cover letter or proposal or whatever it is that accompanies the manuscript?



I haven't seen any of her submissions. Not sure really.

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## Sheilawisz (Jan 20, 2012)

Sashamerideth, maybe your friend should create her own Fantasy sub-genre if she does not agree with Science Fantasy or Sword and Planet- She could think of a creative name for a new sub-genre in the Fantasy literature, that would be great!! I am considering to do exactly that to tag the sub-genre of the stuff that I write =)


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## Anders Ã„mting (Jan 20, 2012)

sashamerideth said:


> We have the far flung galaxy bit in there. It's certainly not earth.





sashamerideth said:


> Her response, "but there's no science in it,  not even scientific magic"
> 
> It does have wizards, just by different names.





sashamerideth said:


> Actually, no jets and no space travel. They have a space program about the state of ours in the 1960's, and not much by way of flight. They didn't develop flight because the people that really wanted to fly could shift into birds.



Well, it's not science fiction or space opera-related at all, then. Laptops and cellphones are hardly sci-fi technolgy, and they arn't flying around in space. It takes place on a different planet, but if you think about it, so does most fantasy.

So, it's basically a fantasy novel, only with a modern day technology level. I suppose she should try figuring out what type of fantasy this corresponds to disregarding the unconventional elements. Aside from urban fantasy and steampunk, it's not like subgenres are strictly bound by setting or technology anyway.

Actually, if it takes place in a city, I guess you could argue that it's urban fantasy since AFAIK nobody said urban fantasy has to take place on Earth.


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## JCFarnham (Jan 20, 2012)

I would personally market it as either Pure Fantasy (you could EASILY sneak it in imo, but who am I?) or Urban/Contemporary Fantasy depending on who one thinks it would sell easiest to. High Fantasy it is not. There is too much of a twist.

There is a writer on these forums by the name of Terry W. Ervin II. He published novel series is a through and through fantasy type story (from what I've read so far), but the twist is its set within a speculated fantasy-esque civilisation that comes 2000 or so years after ours.

That is why I would call your friends work Fantasy. It doesn't (as she rightly says) have much if any of the tone that Science Fiction typically has. The fact that some one on the forums has some fantasy with a similar twist published means at least SOMEONE will take it eventually. I'm fairly sure of that.

It will take a while for publishers to get on board with her, simply because its a non-mainstream "risk", but eventually someone will be interested. Hell, I am. If the writing was good enough and I was a publisher myself I would take the risk.

Of course, self-publishing...

So, bottom line is I would personally pitch it as an Urban Fantasy. Perhaps YA if thats the reading level/tone.


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## Devor (Jan 20, 2012)

sashamerideth said:


> I haven't seen any of her submissions. Not sure really.



When you're outside the clear boxes, your cover materials need to make the case for reading the book a bit stronger than they normally would.  You have to encourage them to get beyond their first impression and give them an idea of how they can sell it going in.  You need to brace them for the jolt of a world that conflicts with their expectations.


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## grahamguitarman (Jan 21, 2012)

I recently read Terry brooks flight of the jerle shannara novels (better than his first tolkien rip-off trilogy) and there is a lot of sci fi elements in there, robots, lasers a huge Ai computer ect, remnants of a much older civilisation, but mixed in with a magic based world.  

And as has been pointed out Anne McCaffrey mixes Fantasy and Sci-Fi in the Dragonrider books (gets more SciFi as the series progresses) which were hugely popular too.

Point being that its possible to get books published that mix genres, you just have to convince highly unimaginative publishers of the worth of your book.

Personally I'm finding all the 'categories' publishers insist on a bit pointless.  Go into WH Smiths (UK Bookstore chain)  and its all lumped under a single section called  'Fantasy/SciFi' same in Watersatones.  If most bookstores lump sci-fi and fantasy together then what does it matter if the genres get mixed together in the same book?


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## Devor (Jan 21, 2012)

grahamguitarman said:


> Personally I'm finding all the 'categories' publishers insist on a bit pointless.  Go into WH Smiths (UK Bookstore chain)  and its all lumped under a single section called  'Fantasy/SciFi' same in Watersatones.  If most bookstores lump sci-fi and fantasy together then what does it matter if the genres get mixed together in the same book?



You've got to understand, though, that the publishers have a salesman who sits down with a buying agent and may only have thirty seconds to pitch each book.  Similar pressures are put on agents.  If they have to spend those thirty seconds just trying to explain what type of book it is, the buyer is just going to say "Next" and skip it.

That's why I wanted to know what kind of cover materials she's using for this book.  Sometimes you can include your own version of the 30-Second sales pitch with your cover letter, and that might help show them that the book can be sold to their buyers.


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## Jabrosky (Jan 23, 2012)

Sometimes I wonder what kind of fantasy my own WIP would fall into.

My story uses real historical cultures and geography, but the world's history is actually quite different from our own; not only are all the characters and events fictional, but civilizations that were separated by centuries in our own timeline are juxtaposed together in my story. For instance, I have Dark Age Anglo-Saxons, Bronze Age Egyptians and Nubians, and medieval Ethiopians coexisting. I guess the best genre title for my story would be "historical fantasy".


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## Graham Irwin (Jan 24, 2012)

I like that label, it would fit my writings as well


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## Wyndi Gayle (Oct 25, 2022)

I would call it 'Modern Fantasy'. But there's so many sub-genres that I think it really depends on how the publisher interprets it. I'm wondering why the publisher wouldn't just market it in a genre they feels is most befitting. This is one reason I stick to mostly high-fantasy, but I do like to throw in the occasional mix up now and then. Best of luck to your friend. This sounds very interesting.


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