# Population Demographics - Agriculture and Military Strength



## Thalian (Sep 18, 2016)

I am trying to determine a countries population size, as well as their military size, and keep it realistic. I don't want to have a country say the size of England to be able to field an army of 800,000, it's just not reasonable. I have been hitting Google hard for about 4 hours, and while I have a much stronger grasp on the concept now, I am hoping someone here as better first-hand knowledge and is able to point me in the right direction.

To describe this country (Alendar):
-It is approximately 160,000 square miles. Estimating, about 50% of that would be livable, the rest being mountains and a forest that is controlled by a separate, friendly power.
-Of the livable land, it is very fertile, and nearly all of it used would be for farmland. 
-They are at peace with neighboring countries (but that is soon to change, obviously).
-They are wealthy. They grow more than they use, and send the remainder to other less-arable countries for a profit. 

Now, from what I have gathered on Google it is a common rule of thumb that 1% of a countries population would be its standing army, and in the 13th-15th centuries about 3-5% of a countries population was urbanized. Basing off of population density estimates of Europe and Asia prior to the Black Death, the population of Alendar would be 3.15 million and 2.3 million respectively, so lets say 2.75 million, making my capital between 82,000-137,500 people, and my standing army 27,500, and with bannermen and peasants armed with pitchforks and old fence posts the king could likely field an army around 150,000 (worst case scenario).

This whole idea stems from a character in my WIP wanting to casually threaten another with the size of his king's army. Naturally, he would exaggerate, and my initial idea was to say they had a _standing army_ of 150,000, which if the numbers from my research are close Alendar would need a population of at least 12 million, and that's not realistic for such a small area of land. 

I feel like I am rambling, but I guess my question would be, would it be reasonable to suggest that Alendar has a population of 5-6 million? The population of England and Wales in 1300 is estimated at 3 million and is about 60,000 square miles. If Alendar did have that population, would 80,00 square miles of fertile, arable farmland be enough to provide for its citizens and still have enough remaining to export? I don't want to rely on the "It is fantasy, so you can do whatever you want" excuse, but am I taking this too far? Haha.

Also, I am sorry for figuring all of this out in miles. As a Canadian it hurts my head, but most of the stuff I could find online was in miles, and distance in my world is measured in leagues, so it just made sense.


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## CupofJoe (Sep 19, 2016)

I don't know if these will be of help?
I uses the first three as ready reckoners to see if things look okay.

Medieval Demographics made easy
Medieval Demographics Made Easy

Donjon
donjon; Medieval Demographics Calculator

Numberless Hordes
The Numberless Hordes: Keeping Your Fantasy Armies a Little Less Fantastic

and these I found today...
Doomesday demographics
The Domesday Book - Medieval Demographics Made Easy

Medieval Demographics Online
Medieval Demographics Online ? The Welsh Piper

And don't forget the non-arable land will still be producing food and sustaining life. Maybe at a lower density but there will be people and things to eat out there.


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## Gurkhal (Sep 19, 2016)

Interesting links, thanks for sharing.


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## skip.knox (Sep 19, 2016)

One other point worth making: realms in the period you mention (1300-1500) or the pre-plague era, had no standing armies. So you don't need to figure that.


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## SeverinR (Oct 26, 2016)

Point to consider,
Standing armies were the regulars.
When attacked or if a country attacked they would call up average people to serve in the military. Not sure how many more they could call up before it would strain the countries economy.  
Many countries would release military to their lives when not needed. Basically a militia or guard, they could call up when needed.
It is quite expensive to pay men to train for long periods without sending them to plunder or attack.


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## Ban (Oct 26, 2016)

This video does not directly answer your questions, but it might give you some needed insight concerning city density in your country. To make the video very concise: Medieval Europe = High density in cities and lots of small farming villages planted in the middle of big stretches of farmland


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## KBA (Oct 30, 2016)

I can't speak regarding the military, but have some thoughts on agriculture. Ancient societies on various continents created complex and prolific agricultural systems that were able to feed huge populations even on less than perfect land. Various reasons why those great systems eventually fell by the wayside into less abundant methods, but in some areas of the world people are trying to restore them. I'd suggest not using modern industrialized agriculture stats regarding the feeding of populations as compared to acres/miles of land available. Instead, for starters, you might want to look into the Aztec's system: Aztec Agriculture  There is also the older French Intensive Method. And by necessity, Cuba had to dissolve its industrial agriculture methods and revert to pre-industrial farming which took them from near starvation to a system that the world now envies. Here's one link on that Cuba's sustainable agriculture at risk in U.S. thaw


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