# Nature as an element can it work



## Lightryu68 (Jul 2, 2012)

My idea consists of magic having elements and there are specific races that control elements like dwarves control earth the best and wizards control water. My question I want to know about is can nature be and element in magic. I want to keep things realistic to a point of course that is why I ask if it seems reasonable to all of you if Nature can or is an element in which Magic resides. I have only been given the positive feed back of that it can be a part of magic. All thoughts are appreciated and will be noted thank you


----------



## Amanita (Jul 2, 2012)

There surely can be nature-based magic but in your case, I'm asking myself how earth and water aren't supposed to be part of nature. Wouldn't the group that can control nature be able to control all other "elements"? This would be quite likely to make them too powerful which is a danger I generally see in "nature magic" without clear definition. 
Or do you define nature as plants, animals and other living creatures? In an ecological sense? Or how else do you define it? You need to make this clear before you can get proper answers.


----------



## Anders Ã„mting (Jul 2, 2012)

Technically speaking, "nature" is everything that isn't "culture." That is, nature is anything that exists on its own, without being created by sentient effort. 

I don't think the concept is anywhere near specific enough to count as an element. (Which, by definition, is "the simplest or essential part or principle of which something consists.)


----------



## Lorna (Jul 2, 2012)

This an interesting question. It sounds like you're asking about the difference between the elements (let's take the traditional quaternity of air / fire / water / earth) in a pure form and their natural manifestation (wind and cloud / bonfire and magma / river and sea / clod of earth, stone, plant and tree). 

I would argue that the elements are a part of nature. It's the human mind that separates and analyses them. In the real world the scientist and in fantasy magicians can work with the elements in their pure forms.  

The idea of having races that control the elements relates back to pagan religions where every part of the landscape has a presiding spirit- from each rock to plant, tree, mountain and volcano. 
A later dvelopment from the Western Occult tradition was Paracelsus' notion that each of the elements has an elemental ruler: air - sylphs, fire -salamanders, water -undines, earth - gnomes. 
Most of the mythical races in fantasy literature have an origin in older myths. Look up dwarves in Norse mythology.

The magical system I use is based loosely on Paracelsus' division of the elements. My MC is a fire magician and a blacksmith. He draws his knowledge of magic from the elementals. To use basic fire magic he has to work with the salamanders. When he learns blacksmithing he learns firstly how to mine iron with the gnomes before he learns to forge it with the volc who are fire elementals that preside over the volcanoes. 

Magicians can choose to work in accordance with the ways of the elementals (and nature) or in accordance with human needs and desires. This is when the nature / culture mentioned above occurs. That's when the elementals and magicians start to fall out...


----------



## Graylorne (Jul 6, 2012)

Nature can be a separate element, if you see it as Life, Growth. The spirit of animals, strength of tree roots, procreating, blind uncaring survival instincts, are all part of Nature.


----------



## Zophos (Jul 6, 2012)

Anders Ã„mting said:


> Technically speaking, "nature" is everything that isn't "culture." That is, nature is anything that exists on its own, without being created by sentient effort.
> ....



I like the way you said that, but boy is that a slippery slope you're on by the end there. There's a couple whole novels right in that alley way between the end of nature and beginning of sentient effort.


----------



## Mindfire (Jul 6, 2012)

I would think that "nature" would be the sum total of all the elements, actually. Now if by "nature" you mean things like plants, trees, and animals, I think a better name for that would be the "life" element.

Also, your wizards are a race? That's neat. I don't think I've seen wizards as a race rather than merely an occupation before.


----------



## Loupgarou (Jul 7, 2012)

Depends on how you define nature, really. I know this isn't a book but the online card game Elements has Entropy, aether and Gravity as elements next to earth, air fire and water (plus a few more) and it fits well. Of course you'd have to explain why more in a story than in a game. I think it's more important that your elements in general feel important, that they're not just a short cut to a comfortable magic system. They certainly don't have to be, i just think the specifics like names are less important.


----------



## shangrila (Jul 7, 2012)

Graylorne said:


> Nature can be a separate element, if you see it as Life, Growth. The spirit of animals, strength of tree roots, procreating, blind uncaring survival instincts, are all part of Nature.


I agree with this.

Unless the plan is to have it as a greater element than the others you'll need to make it distinctive while allowing it to stand on its own and be equal with the others. To me, that means focusing on growth and particularly plants and such, but that's just me. Nature itself is a fairly broad subject and I'm sure you could find a number of unique ways to take it, if you wanted.


----------



## psychotick (Jul 7, 2012)

Hi,

I've got several works in progress where I have spellcasters who use natural magics. Here I'm thinking druids mainly, and their powers are in essence those of plants and animals, summoning creatures in to an army, shaping forests to conceal or to block armies. Getting enemy horses to stop obeying their masters or even to buck etc. And it works even better if you have magical creatures in your world. Imagine a druid calling a dragon to his aid.

Cheers, Greg.


----------



## Lightryu68 (Jul 9, 2012)

Graylorne said:


> Nature can be a separate element, if you see it as Life, Growth. The spirit of animals, strength of tree roots, procreating, blind uncaring survival instincts, are all part of Nature.





Mindfire said:


> I would think that "nature" would be the sum total of all the elements, actually. Now if by "nature" you mean things like plants, trees, and animals, I think a better name for that would be the "life" element.



Thanks all for that idea. It has been the only thing that has been holding me back on expanding on how it will work. 
My apologies to all for not being so clear. I am intending for the element to be nature in the way of plants, animals, and life. A small problem I find myself in is not being able to express my mind all the way something I am working on. 





psychotick said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've got several works in progress where I have spellcasters who use natural magics. Here I'm thinking druids mainly, and their powers are in essence those of plants and animals, summoning creatures in to an army, shaping forests to conceal or to block armies. Getting enemy horses to stop obeying their masters or even to buck etc. And it works even better if you have magical creatures in your world. Imagine a druid calling a dragon to his aid.
> 
> Cheers, Greg.



Thanks for those ideas on how that would work. Although it won't be dragons, because I am having dragons also as a race. I am also defining race as this.  Creatures that are having distinct physical characteristics, A mental capability of that of humans or even greater than humans. examples- elves, dwarves, and in this case Dragons other examples are orcs and a new creature that I have created for my book called the Shull- which in short are ape like creatures. Also examples of not a race are. Horses, fish, tigers and so forth. 
If there are any more ideas floating around concerning Nature(life) as being an element let me know


----------



## Light (Jul 10, 2012)

Juliett McKenna is an author who's crafted her magic world base on what you're describing. They center around her protagonist Livak the thief, and she is an excellent writer, but the examples of nature based sorcery and certain races having 'affinities' for elements is very effective concept. You might want to check out some of her work if you want examples on how she implements it in her world.


----------



## Lightryu68 (Jul 16, 2012)

Light said:


> Juliett McKenna is an author who's crafted her magic world base on what you're describing. They center around her protagonist Livak the thief, and she is an excellent writer, but the examples of nature based sorcery and certain races having 'affinities' for elements is very effective concept. You might want to check out some of her work if you want examples on how she implements it in her world.


thanks very much and may I ask the book you are talking about is called the Thief, because I think I have heard of it, and I have been wanting to read it just haven't had time yet.


----------

