# Tropes that are Useful to Know or Discuss



## Devor (Jan 30, 2016)

Inspired a bit by the Mary Sue thread, I was wondering whether there are any tropes that you found useful to think about in your own writing or felt that others should be more aware of.

I would take a minute to find an example, but I don't have much time and am consequently _terrified_ of going to that site right now.  Speaking of which, my apologies in advance if this thread leads anyone to lose their afternoon there.

You all know the site I mean.  That which will not be linked.


----------



## Heliotrope (Jan 30, 2016)

I'm a pretty firm believer in reader expectations. I believe that readers choose certain genres because they like what those stories have to offer, and they have expectations about what those stories will deliver. If the story does not deliver on those expectations, or tries to divert too far away from them, then the readers will be left confused and disappointed. 

I, myself, love treasure hunt stories, which is why I'm currently writing a fun little one. I love the work of Clive Cussler and David Gibbons. I loved the _National Treasure_ movies, and I love pretty much all heist movies. As a kid I wanted to be _that_ girl in all heist movies who was super limber and flexible and could out manoeuvre the laser grids… you know _that_ girl? 

Because of this I also loved all Pirate movies (_Cutthroat Island_, Gina Davis? Remember that one?) _Indiana Jones_, _Lara Croft_, etc. _The Curse Of Oak Island_ is my favourite show right now on the History Channel. I have followed every episode for the past three years. 

As a reader/viewer of these sorts of books/films I have certain expectations. There are certain _tropes_ that I expect to be delivered. Tone is one. Usually these sorts of stories are lighter and lean towards fun and games rather than in depth themes. I expect ancient clues will need to be decoded. I expect adventure, chases, political threats. I expect some element of romance (even if it is just a shallow one that will only last over the course of one story). I expect similar roles or even 'stereotypes' in characterization. 

I don't believe tropes to be a bad thing at all, and actually, as part of my research for my current book (back to research/planning again lol) when I knew I wanted to write a treasure heist book the first thing I did was re-read some of my favourite treasure hunt stories. I had a treasure heist movie marathon, and yes, I researched the common story Tropes. What I can then do is make a list of reader expectations for the type of story I'm writing. I can then try to meet those expectations in a new and unique way that will hopefully be exciting while still leaving the reader satisfied.


----------



## Drakevarg (Jan 30, 2016)

Tropes are definitely not bad. That's what the word "cliche" is for. Tropes are simply recurring story elements. I find TVTropes useful not so much for merely acknowledging that certain trends exist, but more how they interweave and bounce off each other to create a story.


----------



## Garren Jacobsen (Jan 30, 2016)

Oooh, meta discussion about tropes before identifying tropes I like that. I remember earlier in my writing that I thought tropes were bad. Now I see them for what they are: post hoc tools for identifying trends. Being aware of them is certainly a good thing. It helps strengthen your writing so that you can add a twist or two here and there. 

I don't really have a comprehensive list but I like to keep an eye on character tropes more often than story tropes since I feel characters sell the story better than plot or setting. This helps me to make a more fleshed out character. It helps give them different facets that may not normally be seen in this type of character.


----------



## Gryphos (Jan 30, 2016)

One of the tropes I often end up keeping in mind is that of the 'chosen one'. I don't see anything overtly bad about this trope, but as a personal opinion I prefer protagonists who are special because they made themselves special rather than because of forces outside their control. I just think that makes for a much more relatable and interesting character.


----------



## Heliotrope (Jan 30, 2016)

Gryphos said:


> One of the tropes I often end up keeping in mind is that of the 'chosen one'. I don't see anything overtly bad about this trope, but as a personal opinion I prefer protagonists who are special because they made themselves special rather than because of forces outside their control. I just think that makes for a much more relatable and interesting character.



Yeah, I think this is why I loved the Lego Movie so much (among other reasons, like _Middle Zealand_. Because the entire time Emmett is supposedly the "Special" who had been foretold in prophesy… but he is just so clueless. Then they discover the prophesy was made up… but it doesn't mean he isn't the Special. Everyone can be the Special. 

That made me so happy. I loved the way they twisted that.


----------



## ascanius (Jan 30, 2016)

Heliotrope said:


> Yeah, I think this is why I loved the Lego Movie so much (among other reasons, like _Middle Zealand_. Because the entire time Emmett is supposedly the "Special" who had been foretold in prophesy… but he is just so clueless. Then they discover the prophesy was made up… but it doesn't mean he isn't the Special. Everyone can be the Special.
> 
> That made me so happy. I loved the way they twisted that.




I'm going to have to watch this movie.  I normally loath prophecies because I stop reading to find out what happens and start reading to see how it happens, there is no more unknown with prophecies.

Aside from that I find tropes useful, sometimes it helps me come up with I little twist the I hadn't thought of.


----------



## Heliotrope (Jan 30, 2016)

ascanius said:


> I'm going to have to watch this movie.  I normally loath prophecies because I stop reading to find out what happens and start reading to see how it happens, there is no more unknown with prophecies.
> 
> Aside from that I find tropes useful, sometimes it helps me come up with I little twist the I hadn't thought of.



_Lego Movie _is a great movie to study. It has almost perfect beat for beat 3 act structure, hilarious twists on common tropes and cliches (including Batman, for those involved in the Mary Sue post), and has really funny ways of including exposition that doesn't include info dumps… like this awesome scene: 

Lego Movie Blah Blah - YouTube


----------



## WooHooMan (Jan 30, 2016)

I'm going to kind of go off the beaten path and rant a bit about tropes:

I hate the word "trope".

Traditionally, a trope is a form of figurative language.  Like a type of narration or rhetoric.
Irony is a trope.  Allegory is a trope.  Metaphor and symbolism are tropes.

When people say "trope", they mean "convention" or something else.  A Chosen One is a stock character.  An anti-hero is an archetype.  I think a messianic prophecy counts as a "plot device".  And when a literary device is overdone, it is a cliche.

Before anyone says it: I know I'm the only person in the world who cares about using the term "trope" to mean what it is originally supposed to mean and that I need to accept that the definition of the word has changed into something broader and dumber.

Also, I think TvTropes is a terrible resource for writers (assuming you use it for that purpose) but only _partially_ because of how they use the term "trope".

Ok, so with that out of the way, I think the "tropes" that people would benefit most from keeping in mind would be set-up and payoff.  You got to establish something and then do something with it.  If a character uses an object, you got to make sure the audience knows they have that object.  If you're going to have a punchline to a joke, you need set-up and build-up.
And vice-versa: if you set-up something, use it later.  Remember Chekhov's gun.
Also, Occam's razor: the fewer assumptions the reader needs to make, the better.


----------



## Mythopoet (Jan 31, 2016)

I feel you, WooHooMan. But at this point I think the word "trope" is evolving to mean "literary convention" and there's no going back.


----------



## NerdyCavegirl (Jan 31, 2016)

On one hand, I'm greatly amused by TV Tropes, mostly the WMG, Fridge, Headscratchers, and Nightmare Fuel. There's few things that don't inspire my writing in some way, and it's useful to learn which archetypes and plot devices are present in certain media and commonly associated with each other. On the other hand, I couldn't care less about genre expectations, I do find many "tropes" to be cliche, and I've come to the conclusion that almost any conceivable element occurring in more than one medium is considered a trope. Do any of your characters happen to have dark hair, light skin, and an offbeat personality? Then you have an Eerie Pale-Skinned Brunette. Anyone with light hair and dark skin? Well there's a trope for that too. How many guns makes a Gun Nut? Am I a Knife Nut because I have multiple on me and scattered about my room? Ambiguosly Gay could be any American man nowadays in my eyes, but if that offends you, maybe you're Ambiguosly Straight.


----------



## Mythopoet (Feb 1, 2016)

Curse you Nerdy! I almost got caught in the tvtropes back hole when I looked up WMG.


----------



## Graham M (Feb 3, 2016)

I think you hit it on the proverbial nail, Heliotrope: the key in using tropes (or 'literary conventions,' if you prefer) is to put your own twist on them so they don't become cliches.


----------



## Erudite (Feb 4, 2016)

As an economics major, I look at tropes to be something with which we analyze past occurrences. I think one could craft works out of a trope (or series of tropes), but I think it best to revisit and learn from your writing that which isn't found without macro level analysis.

A God Am I - the idea of becoming a god, only to the detriment of the term "god" - I'm reminded of _The Road to Eldorado_, wherein our two heroes are deemed to be gods simply by coincidence. Their downfall is then not marred by this recognition by the people because of perils of war, etc.


----------



## WooHooMan (Feb 4, 2016)

Graham M said:


> I think you hit it on the proverbial nail, Heliotrope: the key in using tropes (or 'literary conventions,' if you prefer) is to put your own twist on them so they don't become cliches.



This is actually the big reason why I dislike TvTropes as a writing tool.  
It tells people that a story is just a collection of tropes and that the key to "using tropes well" (and thus creating a good story) is to subvert, avert, deconstruct or lampshade them otherwise they risk being a cliche.  Originality (or, more accurately, awareness) is the be-all-end-all of good writing to them.

On the subject of Heliotropes posts: I assumed that the reason why the Lego Movie's twist on a prophecy worked was because of how it tied in to the idea of an individual's imagination/purpose with the individual being Emmet, the other Lego people, the kid, Will Ferrell and each member of the audience.
I mean, when Emmet gave that whole spiel about how "you are the most talented, most interesting, and most extraordinary person in the universe and you are capable of amazing things because you are the Special," you can't honestly say that you didn't feel like he wasn't talking to you on some level.
Plus that's exactly the kind of thing you tell a child when you're trying to encourage them to be creative.

So, yeah, that's why the prophecy in the Lego Movie worked.  Not because it's a twist on how you expect prophecies to work in fiction.  The fact that it is a twist on the prophecy trope may as well be a coincidence.


----------



## Garren Jacobsen (Feb 4, 2016)

You can play every single trope straight and still come off as being creative or original or write a damn fine novel. Tropes are good for ex-post analysis and should not really be thought about ex-ante or while you are writing. They are good to look at and see where your story might be weak and then utilize the trope that people expect and change things up.


----------



## Miskatonic (Feb 5, 2016)

I use the TV Tropes site more for entertainment and finding terms for things that I could explain but could never put a name on. 

It also lets you look at books you really like and see what tropes people have found in them.


----------



## Mythopoet (Feb 5, 2016)

Honestly, I think it's less important _which_ trope you are looking at and much more important that you make sure you're looking at tropes in the right way and asking the right questions. 

The most important thing you can glean from an understanding of trope is answering questions of why tropes have become tropes. Why do readers enjoy reading about this particular scenario/detail over and over? What type of emotional/psychological experience does it give them that they enjoy repeating? And understanding that there are likely to be multiple answers to these questions depending on what type of reader you are thinking of.


----------

