# What's the Real Reason for Revising?



## Addison (Jan 5, 2013)

True that writers revise to make the story better. Tighten it up here, quicken the pace, slow the pace, clarify the description, whatever. But how does a writer know the difference when they're revising for the story to make it perfect, and when they're revising to keep busy because they're nervous about when it's done? 

I think revising is THE disguise for procrastinating. I've been going over the beginning of my story, thinking of ways to make it better, get to the story faster, for almost two months now. At first I thought it was revising, just me wanting it to be perfect or as near perfect as it could be, but now I'm not so sure. 

How does one tell the difference between when they write, re-write, revise or edit for the story's sake and when they do it for their butterflies' sake?


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## T.Allen.Smith (Jan 5, 2013)

A good question whose answer will vary from writer to writer. I can only speak for my own process.

The first thing I do is set the first completed draft aside for 2 months. I take to weeks off of writing, like a vacation, before I begin other writing projects.

I have several stages of revision before I take a work in for critique. During in stage I give myself the freedom to correct anything but I'm reading with an eye focused on specifics. These stages include: reading aloud/improving clarity, grammatical improvements, improving description & characterization, improvement of story through deletion or addition of subplots/characters/events, etc.

After that process is complete I submit any excerpts I may be concerned about for live critique. With the collected notes I push those excerpts through the above process another time. At the end of that stage, I submit the manuscript to beta readers, around 5 people (depending on their availability) whose opinion I trust that I know will be frank in their honesty.

Once all readings are completed, I review their notes concurrently, looking for agreements on likes/dislikes as well as recommendations for improvements/corrections. I compile a list of items I decide to change based off of the reader's suggestions and revise a final time.

Then I type, "The End" for the final time.


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## Xaysai (Jan 5, 2013)

Addison,

Never let posting your work be the reason for a revise-athon!

I know it can be scary to post your work for the first time, but let me make a few points as a Mythic Scribes rookie myself.

1) Everyone here is very helpful. Not everyone here is cranking out the perfect novel, we are all in different places and that is ok! The good news here is that many of the people with the greatest knowledge of what works and what doesn't get involved and give feedback you can trust.

2) I've always been told I was a strong writer, but only a few weeks here has greatly accelerated my writing ability. Like...light years. Yep, I've gone from "groan-worthy" to just "poor" in less than 2 weeks! And that was only because I got involved, so I encourage you to do the same : )

My recommendation is to post your work, let people give feedback. Also, browse through the Showcase forums, read the stories and then read the feedback people give to see if you can identify the same issues in your own writing.

I truly believe the more involved you are, the more you will get out of it.

Good luck!


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## Penpilot (Jan 5, 2013)

For myself, as soon as I've taken something out one day and replaced it the next. That's one way I know the current revision process for the scene I'm working on is over. Another rule of thumb people use is if you make a pass on a scene and less than 10% of it changes, then it's done.


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## Xaysai (Jan 5, 2013)

Penpilot said:


> For myself, as soon as I've taken something out one day and replaced it the next. That's one way I know the current revision process for the scene I'm working on is over. Another rule of thumb people use is if you make a pass on a scene and less than 10% of it changes, then it's done.



This is why I will never be an author.

I've spent 4 days obsessing over how to end my 189 word flash fiction piece.

Oh, dear...


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## Addison (Jan 5, 2013)

Xaysai said:


> I've spent 4 days obsessing over how to end my 189 word flash fiction piece.
> 
> Oh, dear...


   Same here. ....I thought flash fiction was fifty words or shorter? Or can it go only to a few hundred? 

As all of you have more experience and seniority on the site, especially with posting stories and such, can I ask an opinion? 
The piece I really need critique on is the beginning. How the character gets from A to B. (His getting from B to Z is fine for now) But I'm not sure about the beginning, and last I checked I have for or five different takes on the beginning. Same characters and all but the pace and how he's propelled to the inciting incident is different. So if I put up the first version can I make a note to critique that version and then post the second in its place? Or should I post each version separate?....although I think I answered my own question.


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## Shockley (Jan 5, 2013)

My advice, and everyone will disagree with this: If you're revising just the start of your story, I assume the rest of your story isn't finished.

 If that's the case, close your notepad. Delete the document, whatever. 

 If you have a particular force of will, go ahead and forge on. But for me, and for most people, revising before the story is complete is the single most effective way to ruin your story and make sure it never, ever sees the light of day.


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## Addison (Jan 5, 2013)

Nah it's done, the first...or second....draft is done. This is the revision which will become the second draft.


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## T.Allen.Smith (Jan 5, 2013)

Addison, 

Do you have a revision process or do you revise in a more impromptu manner?


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## Addison (Jan 6, 2013)

It's a process. First thing I do is write the first draft. If I have any doubts or a little voice thinks I have an error (changing name or mentioning an event or name I haven't written) then I write it on a separate document labeled (revisions) When the first draft is done I step away from it for at least two weeks, just reading or working on other projects, then I get back to it. I know what needs revising in the second and third act. But the beginning is screaming for a huge revision. I read it and its jumping from going at snail pace to really faulty, throwing me and my kid brother all over the place with the choppy pace and all. 
I usually try to revise four times, the last time is after I've read it aloud.


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## Androxine Vortex (Jan 6, 2013)

I did the same thing when I started writing my first novel. I wanted the first chapter to be perfect and so I revised it again and again and again. And again  You need to take breaks and let your mind rest. It's the same concept with working out. You don't just bench your max for an hour straight. You work out a little bit and rest. If you try too hard you can do more harm than good to your muscles and in your case your brain.

It helps to take breaks because when you resume you will notice things you might not have before because you were so used to seeing them that they appeared to be naturally present. We all want to push ourselves because we care so much about our work. But it can be easy to overwhelm yourself. I just recently took a very long vacation from my writing and now That I'm back things seem much clearer and I have a better sense of direction. Hope this helps and good luck!


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## Caged Maiden (Jan 6, 2013)

My process, in case it will help someone.  I see it as a sort of archery target:

When I've finished a first draft, I leave it alone for a bit.  No specific length of time, because I have a lot of novels.  All of these were written on paper first, and so I consider "finished" being typed and complete on the computer.


1).  So once the first draft is done, I give it to a couple readers.


2).  I read through as a reader (in conjunction with my crit partners),and detail which scenes I think need work (the biggest ring).  I note places where the pacing lags, places where there are erroneous scenes, and places where there hasn't been action in a while.  

3).  Once I have highlighted the scenes that need work, I go through them, reassessing what my goals are in them, and cutting anything erroneous.  I fine-tune anything I think needs to be expanded on, and make sure that whatever I add or cut is in line with the rest of the work.  That's the second ring, where I'm getting closer, but still far off.  

4).  After I've tightened up the scenes and worked on the overall flow of one into the next, within the scope of the novel's flow, I go through from beginning to end, keeping a bookmark the whole way.  In this pass, my aim is to tighten up dialogues, info dumps, and fix grammar and punctuation to perfection.  When I do this pass, I feel it's about the red ring, and I'm about 90% done.

5).  The last pass I read as a reader.  I give it to my crit partners and beta readers to get their final thoughts, telling them that I believe the work is about 90% of where I want it to be, and asking them to watch for specific things, like flow, consistency, and if there are grammar issues, to please point them out (something I'd ask them to ignore entirely on their first pass).  after getting their comments, and going through it myself, I make the last few adjustments, and call it second draft, securely within the bullseye.


The process took me time to evolve from a sort of stabbing-in-the-dark method.  I used to do grammar first (because it eats at me when it's wrong), but it really is a waste of time.  Also, I never spend an inordinately long amount of time on the first couple chapters, because in all honesty, I'll probably end up cutting them.  When I write, I always spin my wheels for a bit, and find that I can safely cut a huge amount of material from the first part, where I tend to info dump and over-explain.

Sometimes, I do a small read-through before a novel is finished, mostly because I've put the work down for too long and can't finish because I've forgotten where I am.  

Hope this helps someone and saves them the wasted hours I unfortunately experienced.  Best wishes.


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## wordwalker (Jan 6, 2013)

Does anyone have any rules on what makes a scene need revision? A standard on what needs redoing, or maybe when a revised scene has to be considered Done because it gets This Much right?


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## Butterfly (Jan 6, 2013)

For me, it depends on how much red ink ends up on the page after a read through.

At the moment, I'm looking at sentence flow, making sure that the things that need to be kept together are kept together within paragraphs and not split with other ideas that should come a little later. I'm looking for inconsistencies, (I'm noticing quite a few of these at the mo), with characters, plot events, dialogue voices, and anything that does not ring true.

If I get to the end of a chapter and have corrected only spelling and grammar, I know that should be it - done.

However, if I have pages of notes in red, I know I still have work to do. I number everything that needs to be redone, I write to the side or on a separate sheet. The numbers add up, and leaves me with a sort of score for how much work to do. 13 = 13 bits to do, 4 = 4 bits to do, sort of. I know then which chapters need more work than others. At the moment, lowest is chapter 4 with a score of 4, and the highest is chapter 8 with a score of 16. At a glance these scores are written on the contents page alongside the respective chapters. Makes an outlay that is easier to see.


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## Penpilot (Jan 6, 2013)

wordwalker said:


> Does anyone have any rules on what makes a scene need revision? A standard on what needs redoing, or maybe when a revised scene has to be considered Done because it gets This Much right?



Ok, I'm not trying to be flip. But to me, the scene is done when it's doing what I want it to do in the way I want it to be done. The latter part of that is flexible. There's a good-enough point in presentation.

Sorry if that's confusing, but it's the way I think of it.

I guess another way to think of it is. If all the story goals are being met in the section, and the presentation in terms of sentence structure is clear and to your liking, then it could be considered done in my books.


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## djutmose (Jan 6, 2013)

I revise until things stop jumping out at me that I hate and that demand fixing. If I've gone over the work a couple times and that still happens, it means something is seriously wrong with the basic premise/structure ... Which is bad news and serious rewrite time.

But these days I try to plan/outline ahead so that usually doesn't happen anymore.


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## BWFoster78 (Jan 7, 2013)

What's your goal?

If you're writing in an attempt to become a better writer, spend as much time as you can revising.

1. Write something
2. Get feedback
3. Revise it
4. Go back to step 2

If you're writing just to finish, don't revise at all.  Get it done.

If you're writing to produce something that people want to read, revise as much as it takes to get to that point.  The hard part, I realize, is figuring out exactly where that point is.


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## Addison (Jan 7, 2013)

What I find I really need to look for is excessive verbal adverbs and places where the tone changes, where my prose becomes formal or flat.  But mostly, like with Butterfly, it depends on how much red ink pops up on the page.


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## Kevin O. McLaughlin (Jan 8, 2013)

I was pleasantly surprised by some of the revision processes mentioned above. I thought I was more alone than it appears I am. 
My process basically amounts to:
1) Write work.
2) Give work to beta readers.
3) Revise based on beta reader feedback. Once.
4) Get work proofread.
5) Publish or submit.

Some folks (Dean Wesley Smith, for one) recommend skipping steps two and three. I'm more comfortable getting some feedback from trusted readers still, at my stage of the game. When I do revise, I *don't* change the story, or plot, or characters. Pretty universally what I change is little bits of wording where either a) I made amateur hour errors like re-using the same word more than once in a paragraph or b) the words I used were insufficient to convey the scene as I was trying to tell it.

I HATE the old "revise over and over" meme. It's a leftover, as DWS says, from a century of English professors who didn't want to have to correct too many papers, so they taught students to revise their work to "polish" it. Thing is, I always used to get As from those professors with my first drafts, so I really never saw the point of following their directions on the subject. 

One needs to be very cautious as one revises, if you do so. It's easier to destroy than to create, and once you're in editing mode, you're no longer in a creative mindset - it's easier to take out of the story those elements which made it worth telling in the first place than it is to actually make the story better.


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## Steerpike (Jan 8, 2013)

I like DWS' approach as a general rule. It seems to track the spirit of Heinlein's rules as well. I think one reason so many aspiring authors never get past the 'aspiring' part is the endless series of revisions, looking for feedback, more revisions, more feedback, changing this chapter, and so on.


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## BWFoster78 (Jan 9, 2013)

> My process basically amounts to:
> 1) Write work.
> 2) Give work to beta readers.
> 3) Revise based on beta reader feedback. Once.
> ...



I'm not at the point where my first draft is good enough to give to beta readers.  I require at least a 2nd to get to that stage.  In fact, I'm not sure, given my methodology, that I'll ever get to that stage.

For me, the first draft is my thinking process put on paper.  All the elements are there to make a story, but they're not cohesive.  I have to put thought into the character arcs, pacing, tension, emotion, and plot elements to make the 2nd draft something that I'd even consider letting others read.


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## Addison (Jan 12, 2013)

I think a good sign that you've revised the #@$#@ out of your work, either the whole thing or just one scene, is when you try to revise it but your imagination won't turn over. Faulty wiring, pressing to hard on the clutch. A sign that either you're out of juice or the scene is fine as is.


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## Benjamin Clayborne (Jan 13, 2013)

Kevin O. McLaughlin said:


> I was pleasantly surprised by some of the revision processes mentioned above. I thought I was more alone than it appears I am.
> My process basically amounts to:
> 1) Write work.
> 2) Give work to beta readers.
> ...



I think it probably varies by author. DWS may not need to revise much because his first attempt is already fairly polished and stripped of the unnecessary (which is something that can be a natural talent and develop over time as a skill); but some authors (*cough* _glances around nervously_) tend to be a bit baroque and exploratory in their first drafts, and without at least one revision step, would end up publishing something bloated.

A lot of aspiring authors probably do spend a lot more time revising than is healthy; that time would be better spent analyzing story structure and character development rather than fiddling with the wording of everything. But that's _haaaaaaard_.


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## SeverinR (Jan 16, 2013)

revising is an art of itself.
No manuscript will ever be perfect, even the block buster bok, could be improved in some way.
You want the best that it can be, then get good feedback, and consider what they say.

I have not found anyone willing to review a large book, but found alot of people will do small samplings.  So when my computer is working again, and I finish this revision, I will submit a portion or a chapter for review.  Then look at what they said and work on weaknesses.  Remember the people reading it, took time to do you a favor, they are giving you an honest opinion so don't overly defend something or take it personally. Question them if you need to, but don't give them negitive feedback for their review.
Also maybe read someone elses submissions and give them feedback. I need to do this also, haven't done it for a while.


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## Mari (Jan 19, 2013)

I don't there is magic thing anyone can tell that would let you know where revisions ends and fussing begins. That comes with experience and trust in yourself. 

I personally have to revise everything I write. I tighten. I clarify. I add. I put in transitions. 

I think it's when others, who you trust, who also write and read, tell you nice things and the areas where they say need you disagree with FOR A REASON. One reader doesn't care for when a phrase is repeated. I did for a reason and it doesn't seem to bother 20 readers. So it stays.


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## Devora (Jan 19, 2013)

Taking too long to revise will cause one to become disinterested in the work (i speak from experience). Revision is to be used for the various reason you have stated, but be wary of how long you take. It took me 6 months to finish the short story's first draft from the rough draft i wrote that i just finished today (01/19/2013), but i still pulled through. You got to take breaks between each revision session, otherwise you'll burn yourself out.


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## Jabrosky (Jan 20, 2013)

Usually I write the first few chapters of a story only to realize that there's something fundamentally flawed with my plot or characterization that ruins everything. I know this is my inner critic attacking again, but the thing is I need my stories to have solid foundations in order to stand up. Any weakness in the opening ruins the whole story for me.


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## Addison (Jan 22, 2013)

A successful story is like a rocket launch. First the rocket shoots off the earth, flying at 25,000 miles an hour to break the earth's atmosphere. Then it's the journey through open space, then the landing on the moon. That beginning of the shuttle's journey is like the beginning of a story. If the rocket doesn't reach the right speed it will flounder, fall and burn in embers. If the beginning doesn't start off with enough speed, a rush, a thrill, and "Oh my gosh does he make it?!" feeling, then it's gonna fall. 

I think that's why beginnings are my worst. Not to say I write them badly (least I think I don't. :-(  ) but it's why I go over them very carefully.


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