# World Building: How do you start?



## FatCat (Sep 5, 2012)

Hey all!

My question is how do you start doing world building, I've been running into some trouble with my story and I'm thinking it has to do with a lack detail in my world. So, I decided I would start from the ground up with a new story idea. Hopefully this time I'll put a little more effort into the details. Anyway, do you just start with a cool concept and grow from there? What kind of things do you do first, and why? Basically, what's your style of world building?


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## Steerpike (Sep 5, 2012)

I just start writing, with a relatively skeletal framework of the world in my mind, and let the world develop as I am creating the story. Sounds like that might be an approach you've already tried, though.


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## FatCat (Sep 5, 2012)

Steerpike said:


> I just start writing, with a relatively skeletal framework of the world in my mind, and let the world develop as I am creating the story. Sounds like that might be an approach you've already tried, though.



Yeah, I decided I would just start writing with a basic idea and let it grow from there. I think that maybe I'm more of a plotter than I realized, but never trying it that route I don't know. So I'm still going to work on my original story, but I want to try a more developed method and see if the foot fits the shoe.


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## RHawkins (Sep 5, 2012)

It might be easier to build the world first, and then the plot. Now most people will already have there plot (or the frame of it anyway) in there minds already, and there characters so it might be easier to build the world around the plot and characters. DO not forget the all important rule of re-writing though. No story is ever set in stone completely, but you will often change little details. Don't be afraid of changing the little details as long as they make sense.

I first came up with my world when I was ten (I had a very imaginative childhood) I am now 22 and it has grown into a behemoth of multiple cultures, religions and peoples, but one thing I will say is that they are all inspired by cultures, religions and peoples in the real world. You just take the basic concept and tweak it until you get something you're happy with.

Hope this helps... Kinda new here


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## Penpilot (Sep 5, 2012)

This isn't mine... I actually can't remember where I got it but it's on one of my questions to ask before starting note card stack. But you need to think about the following.

Start 3 basic things

1 a religion
2 group divisions
3 a moral compass what is right and what is wrong

Expanded PERSIA charts for more depth.
P: politics; leaders, wars, treaties, laws, governments
E: economy; money, taxes, trade, inflation
R: religion; main religions, sects, how religion influences the culture
S: society; gender roles, class systems, how things like marriage and family are perceived
I: intellect; new technology, ideas, etc. An example would be the Scientific Revolution, with Galileo and Newton
A: art; how does the art reflect the culture? ex: France's rococo style, which was all about the nobility having fun, reflected the power the nobles had


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## Astner (Sep 5, 2012)

This is the guide I used. It's a lot to take in, but read few of them and think about you'd answer them before jumping onto the next. At the very least it won't hurt to just glance trough the questions.


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## Jabrosky (Sep 5, 2012)

Right now I'm writing a list of all the things I want to put into my world. How to make all these different elements fit together in a cohesive mixture is another matter entirely.


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## Ankari (Sep 5, 2012)

I've been world building for a year.  Three or so months ago I decided it was time to write the damn story.  I only have 20% of my world outlined.  You won't believe what I have in mind for the other 80%.  Every time I think about it I get giddy and do the Quagmire *Gigity Gigity.*


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## ascanius (Sep 5, 2012)

I started with the most basic idea of the story I wanted to tell.  From there I started to detail the major items, I say items because not everything is relevant at this point in time to the plot.  The knowledge is their but I have yet to include it into the plot, if I ever will I do not know, however it is there if needed.  

As an Idea of the steps I took they are as follows: map, peoples/races, cultures.  Fore peoples/races I I listed all important items, physical appearance, customs, location, lore, history, building styles and materials, etc.  For the cultures point I think the best place to start is to think of yourself as a tourist to that place.  The first things that you notice are going to be the major things that are unique, structures and places, food, customs, costumes, greetings, LANGUAGE, then after that it becomes subtle variations of these things combined that make the place unique, as one spends more time there.  Basically create a travel guide for someone who is going there for the first time.  After that you would want to create a travel guide for the person who is already intimately familiar with the culture and intends to move there.  For this person things change such as including commerce, schooling, warfare, security, permanent housing, friendship, employment, etc.  Think of each culture along these lines of basic knowledge of a one time visitor to a person who is transferring their entire life there and you will be more then well on your way to a very detailed world.  Remember however that before you can decide the details you must first be well aware of the physical aspects of location, meaning a map whether on paper or in your mind is up to you.  The location of each culture needs to make sense relative to one another.  You cannot have a Mediterranean culture right next to a polar culture.  The building styles alone would prohibit such mixing, stone and cement in tandem with blocks of ice just don't make any rational sense, unless......  Don't get me wrong, such things can happen but they need to exist within the frame work of your world as a whole, meaning you need to have an explanation for such possibilities.  

Also don"t forget the importance of art and popularity.  Both aspects of have greatly shaped all modern cultures as we know it.  Some cultures place high value on popularity while other scorn the idea of popularity, ancient cultures at least did.  Art shapes a great many aspects of a culture among them the concept of beauty.  Ironically marriage had more to do with economics than beauty for many, and most, world cultures.  I it a good point to keep in mind, as it can place high, or low values on sex in many cultures.  Another point about art is the availability of time and resources.  For instance Lapis Lazuli could be as expensive as gold in some locations while in others very cheap, this is also a great way to show how many world building aspects can overlap.  FYI, I don't remember who it was but there is someone on this forum who who has some great info about art and is not a resource to be squandered.

Best of luck! And I hope this helps.


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## Anders Ã„mting (Sep 5, 2012)

I start with characters, actually. I visualize them in my mind, and figure out what kind of people they are. Then I give them personalities and names and all the other stuff. Then I look at where they are, or in what kind of context they fit in, and what they are doing or what they'll need to do. The world around them is created as I figure out how they fit into it.

These kids are at some sort of military academy, but they are also orphans. Thus, they live in a country that trains orphans into soldiers. This one girl is an exiled princess. So, she just arrived from a kingdom that had a revolution where she lost her parents. And so on.


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## ThinkerX (Sep 5, 2012)

I've done a lot of worldbuilding down through the years.

With me, it comes down to...

'there be worlds...and then there be parts of worlds.'

Usually real basic geography would be the first consideration: my secondary world came about because I needed the vast majority of the world to be covered with an ocean, leaving only some islands and the 'Strand' - a narrow ribbon of land which goes clear around the planet.  I then go and develop things from there.

Sometimes, though I envision stories or concepts that don't require a full world, so I'll block off a section of an existing world and plop the mess in that area, which is how the secondary world ended up with a very large very isolated continent.

I've also combined worlds - in the past I've had as many as half a dozen worlds at the same time, but when I really started looking at the concepts involved and the space needed for the stories involved, they merged.  These days, I have two, plus some...'hints of worlds', I guess you'd call them.  Both still have plenty of blank spaces despite all the merging and new ideas.


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## MystiqueRain (Sep 5, 2012)

Depends on what kind of world-builder you are. For me, I usually start with the characters and the main conflict, which shapes the world as I go. I didn't draw a map until I found it absolutely necessary to judge distances and directions because my characters were traveling so much. Some people like building their world down to almost every last detail before they write or do whatever, but others like to build as they go. 

Whichever way you choose, you should set down a few basics before doing anything. A lot of them have already been listed above, but I'll list my preferences

Language (doesn't matter if you keep it all in English)
Technology (futuristic, medieval, etc.)
Religion (if any that's important to your plot)
Races (humans, dwarfs, flying rainbow bunnies...)
Currency (doesn't have to be too complicated unless you want it to be)
Some sort of governmental framework if there is one)

To me, things like the social structure and cultural customs can be developed as the story progresses. The above things are parts of a world that can be summarized in a word or two, or a list. You can flesh them out as you go, or if you want to go in depth before you write, that works too. Whatever floats your boat.


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## FatCat (Sep 5, 2012)

Wow, lots of great information here! You guys rock.


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## CupofJoe (Sep 6, 2012)

I doodle maps. at some point a map links in with another idea and then a third, fourth... and then i have a story of sorts to start on... such as - I have a map of an archipelago just off shore from a Mediterranean sized gulf/sea - how would one nation become dominant? -  how would a trading nation deal with new languages? - how would government based on divination really affect a society? etc...


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## Astner (Sep 6, 2012)

If you want I can Photoshop a decent map for you, just send me a messy sketch from MS Paint or something and I'll redraw it in this style.






In whatever size and resolution you want.

Once you've gotten that down world building becomes a bit more interesting.


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## Mindfire (Sep 6, 2012)

Astner said:


> If you want I can Photoshop a decent map for you, just send me a messy sketch from MS Paint or something and I'll redraw it in this style.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Omg you do maps?


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## Astner (Sep 6, 2012)

Mindfire said:


> Omg you do maps?


For people I know, I had an extended conversation with FatCat last week about his work in the chat, which I think warrants for minor favors.

Maps aren't hard to do, 20 - 30 minutes for smaller ones, and up to two hours for larger and more detailed maps.


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## Mindfire (Sep 6, 2012)

Astner said:


> For people I know, I had an extended conversation with FatCat last week about his work in the chat, which I think warrants for minor favors.
> 
> Maps aren't hard to do, 20 - 30 minutes for smaller ones, and up to two hours for larger and more detailed maps.



Hmmm... what if I pay you?


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## Astner (Sep 6, 2012)

Mindfire said:


> Hmmm... what if I pay you?


No. I'm not going through all that hassle for price of a take-away meal.


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## Mindfire (Sep 6, 2012)

Astner said:


> No. I'm not going through all that hassle for price of a take-away meal.



Meh. It was worth a try.


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## Astner (Sep 6, 2012)

Mindfire said:


> Meh. It was worth a try.


I'm sure that there's some starving art student on a forum somewhere that would do it for you.


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## Mindfire (Sep 6, 2012)

Anyway, to the original point of the thread: 

For me, worldbuilding is an iterative process. I start with a story or concept in mind, and then sketch out the world needed for the story to take place. After the world is sketched out, some new details about it will come to my attention- details not fully fleshed out or new ideas that come from a burst of inspiration. These new world details will then affect the storyline. The revised story will require changes to the world, the revised world affects the story, and so on and so on through as many cycles as necessary until eventually the two converge, to put it in mathematical terms. 

Story influences worldbuilding, worldbuilding influences story. They're like yin and yang, two haves of one whole. Whether you start off with worldbuilding first or plot/characters first is a matter of personal preference.


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## Mindfire (Sep 6, 2012)

halves*

10char


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## Astner (Sep 6, 2012)

Fluctuating from writing the story and the setting is usually what most people do when they "just write". It's not something I'd recommend though, especially if you plan or writing longer series, because it's easy to get off track.

I design the world before I write the story, — and I'm sure that I'm not the only one who've noticed this but — if you know your world, then writing the story will come so much more naturally, and it looks so much better when you reread it later on.


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## Mindfire (Sep 6, 2012)

Astner said:


> Fluctuating from writing the story and the setting is usually what most people do when they "just write". It's not something I'd recommend though, especially if you plan or writing longer series, because it's easy to get off track.
> 
> I design the world before I write the story, — and I'm sure that I'm not the only one who've noticed this but — if you know your world, then writing the story will come so much more naturally, and it looks so much better when you reread it later on.



I don't think the method I described necessitates lack of planning. I plan meticulously. But I should have mentioned that the process I described was more characteristic of my early days as a writer- late middle school and high school. Now, worldbuilding and story have pretty much reached their "convergence point." Any changes I make now are generally small details.


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## mbartelsm (Sep 6, 2012)

If you want to use the rule of cool, then I suggest you to start by the magic system or a very original race or technology, from there start building the cultures, religions and alike until you are satisfied with your world.

I personally don't like to start with the characters since it makes the worldbuilding much less free. I like to build a world and create characters that fit the world.


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## Jabrosky (Sep 6, 2012)

Most recently I've picked a theme for my world, or rather part of it, and built my main civilization around that theme. I'm talking about my Sun Kingdom, which I designed after asking the question "what would a civilization that worshiped a Sun Goddess look like?"


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## MystiqueRain (Sep 6, 2012)

mbartelsm said:


> I personally don't like to start with the characters since it makes the worldbuilding much less free. I like to build a world and create characters that fit the world.



But in contrast, then you have characters limited by the limitations of the world. I guess either way you do it, something has to conform to something, whether its the characters to the world or the world to the characters. I think it depends on how in depth you want a world to be as well--if you have a lot of ideas, why not make the world first in case you forget? On the other side of the matter, if you're not sure at all where to start, place down the characters as a root from which you can build from.


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## FatCat (Sep 6, 2012)

After taking a bit of a break from writing, I think I'm gonna have to go the route of building characters first. Let the world come second, because in my mind the world supports the character. Now I just have to think of good characters, which may be harder than building religions and cultures! How about a legless beggar with two greatswords surgically attached at the hip....have him save the world or something.....nope.


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## Zero Angel (Sep 6, 2012)

It depends on the world. 

On my main, I started with the questions, "How can dragons exist?" and "How can magick exist?" and followed the lines of logic that proceeded out from there. It very quickly had me going back to before the "big bang" and I reworked the entire multiverse. 

For other worlds, I don't worry as much about physics so long as I have a world that can encompass the story I want to tell in it. For instance, I have a Highlander-esque world that is kind of a medieval Japan. In it, people that enter into an honorable challenge (fight) and win, absorb the life-force of their slain foe. Other than having this "magick", I don't worry about too much in the world. 

For another epic story I've worked on besides my main, I had a magick-comes-late-to-the-scene thing going on and the main channel this happened through was a series of meteor strikes that altered the composition of the planet and empowered the creatures. 

I have a fantasy western/steampunk where the magick is more philosophical/religious/shamanistic than anything. I developed this just because I wanted to do a western, but I didn't want to be constrained by history. It's just some nameless arid region in a nameless country.

I have another fantasy "world" that takes place in the current world, the only difference is that angels, demons, etc exist. The only world building I do with this are the realms of Heaven and Hell and the differences in the creatures that appear. It's mostly mundane though with the exception of the main character.

Anyway, the main thing is just to go off what your story needs. Once you have the idea for the story, the world will develop naturally and will in turn feed your story. It's a mutualistic relationship.

Hmm...I've kind of rambled on here. Apologies.


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## Varamyrr (Sep 7, 2012)

Astner said:


> I'm sure that there's some starving art student on a forum somewhere that would do it for you.


If you want to, I can provide you with some pdf guides from the cartographers guild which provide you a very good looking result in a relative short time.


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## CupofJoe (Sep 7, 2012)

Varamyrr said:


> If you want to, I can provide you with some pdf guides from the cartographers guild which provide you a very good looking result in a relative short time.


If you are willing could I have a look to?


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## Mindfire (Sep 7, 2012)

Varamyrr said:


> If you want to, I can provide you with some pdf guides from the cartographers guild which provide you a very good looking result in a relative short time.



Guides for what program?


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## Svrtnsse (Sep 7, 2012)

The starting point for the world I'm building was a question of "what if...?" and then it just went on from there - sort of.

Once I had a general idea of what the answer for the first what-if question would be I also had a couple of new questions about how that answer affected other aspects of the world. I tried answering those and new questions popped up and that's the way it's going now.
I should point out that the main assumption from the start was that everything is like in the real world and that I then changed some aspect of it (added fantasy elements) to see how that might affect things.


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## Snowpoint (Sep 7, 2012)

Do Not Start World Building.

I suffer from world builder's disease. I have learned through many failed projects that world building is not the same as short stories or novels.

Start with a story seed. Work out all of your goals you want to accomplish with the story seed. (ex. themes, motifs, odd character quirks, etc.) And then set the story in a place that highlights those things present in the story seed.


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## Mindfire (Sep 7, 2012)

Snowpoint said:


> Do Not Start World Building.
> 
> I suffer from world builder's disease. I have learned through many failed projects that world building is not the same as short stories or novels.
> 
> Start with a story seed. Work out all of your goals you want to accomplish with the story seed. (ex. themes, motifs, odd character quirks, etc.) And then set the story in a place that highlights those things present in the story seed.



That's certainly _one_ possible method. What's world builder's disease?


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## Steerpike (Sep 7, 2012)

Mindfire said:


> What's world builder's disease?



World-building without end so that your story never gets written.


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## Astner (Sep 7, 2012)

Steerpike said:


> World-building without end so that your story never gets written.


World-building — like any project — has to be scheduled and systemized.


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## FatCat (Sep 7, 2012)

The problem I've found is I just can't seem to stay interested. I tried starting a bullet-point system with three main objectives, setting, characters, and plot. I maybe got half a page done, I just have no fun while doing this kinda thing. Just writing now, see where it goes from there.


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## Astner (Sep 7, 2012)

FatCat said:


> The problem I've found is I just can't seem to stay interested. I tried starting a bullet-point system with three main objectives, setting, characters, and plot. I maybe got half a page done, I just have no fun while doing this kinda thing. Just writing now, see where it goes from there.


Take a certain bullet-point, like say religion.

Then boil yourself a cup of tea and start thinking about questions such as: _Are there any deities, if so how many?_ Â· _If so, what are the deities roles in the creation of the universe?_ Â· _What's the purpose of life?_ Â· _What's after death?_ Â· _How widespread is the religion?_ Â· etc.

Start off by creating a religion you find interesting. The next religion you create will be a lot simpler. But don't sit there and force yourself to write a thousand words in twenty minutes.


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## FatCat (Sep 8, 2012)

Astner said:


> Take a certain bullet-point, like say religion.
> 
> Then boil yourself a cup of tea and start thinking about questions such as: _Are there any deities, if so how many?_ Â· _If so, what are the deities roles in the creation of the universe?_ Â· _What's the purpose of life?_ Â· _What's after death?_ Â· _How widespread is the religion?_ Â· etc.
> 
> Start off by creating a religion you find interesting. The next religion you create will be a lot simpler. But don't sit there and force yourself to write a thousand words in twenty minutes.



I think I'm getting my flow down here. Before I was trying to complete one idea before moving on to the next, now I've started again, but this time moving around on different aspects of world building. So I started with a detailed plot outline, i.e. main character attributes I want to point out, characters referenced in the chapter, so on. I did the first three chapters, then switched to races and I'm getting my groove! I think substituting coffee for tea will serve me better though.


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## Shockley (Sep 8, 2012)

I'll just walk you through the process I used when I created my main world, Argantar.

 I cracked open an Anglo-Saxon dictionary and flipped through the A's randomly (I like A sounds, bluntly said). I found the word 'Argantar.' Argantar means 'relating to silver,' so that was my starting place. Generally we see silver as degraded from gold, so I decided that Argantar had to be a colony of some greater country - so I devised the word 'Abenar' for this earlier country, keeping the major elements of the word 'Argantar' intact. Keeping with the theme of Argantar being a degraded Abenar, I decided that it had to be politically unstable and transitioning to the 'bronze' country, so I established two break-away kingdoms, Fornogros and Utanland (Utanland is a completely custom 'word' creation, Fornogros derives from Anglo-Saxon like Argantar - 'forn' usually indicates something dangerous).  

 This was all pretty basic, but I had something to build off: Something happened to cause Abenar to split into Argantar, and something had to be happening to create Fornogros and Utanland. Knowing that this was not enough, I created two foreign empires to give me added pressure, as needed: Nastrund (a simple variation on the 'Nastrond' of Nordic myth) and Eskandria (derived from the Arabic rendering of Alexander). So I had my basic geography and my political divisions - everything else revolved around justifying those divisions.

 So I built a story of Abenarian exiles arriving in Argantar and subjugating a local populace and establishing a government based around god-kings. I had this core idea, so the religion and politics expanded from this: fairly tyrannical monarchs, little freedom and a religion that had a dim view of the human condition. This gave me an easy excuse for Utanland and Fornogros: Respectively, a state that rejects monarchy and an aboriginal state rejecting the Abenarians. To make the extremes of Argantar more acceptable, I had to make Nastrund even worse - a mageocracy, ruled by undead necromancers and massive slave labor (I explored this in the one story I've posted on this board, the Return of Eino the Undying to Almorak). To further the contrast, Eskandria becomes a riff on Sumer - chaotic gods, but an ordered society that encourages both technological innovation and trade. 

 I added in a few additional elements that gave the world 'flavor:' The Children of Gangibar, a race of semi-divine humans who are the craftsmen of the gods; Kerath, a vaulted city where only the wealthy can enter/leave; Manzriah, a country ruled over by an actual god; Awinnan, the womb of nations; the Wastes, the burial ground of Abenar; etc.

 It's still a work in progress, but should I ever regain my interest in writing fantasy I think I have a strong starting point.


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## Zero Angel (Sep 8, 2012)

FatCat said:


> I think I'm getting my flow down here. Before I was trying to complete one idea before moving on to the next, now I've started again, but this time moving around on different aspects of world building. So I started with a detailed plot outline, i.e. main character attributes I want to point out, characters referenced in the chapter, so on. I did the first three chapters, then switched to races and I'm getting my groove! I think substituting coffee for tea will serve me better though.



Just pursue what is interesting to you. If it is not interesting, I don't think you'll be able to get other people interested in it either, but if you find it interesting, then you have something to work with.


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