# Flash Forwards and Prologues



## Rorick (Feb 26, 2014)

Just interested on people's views on prologues and flash forwards in general. I'm fairly agnostic, as long as they are done well. I just wonder what other folk view as 'done well'.

I shall tell you for why: I started my current project entirely on the premise of a flash forward. It basically defined my character and gave me a situation to work toward. It felt like I was dropping the reader right in on the action and drawing them in. Once I reached that point in time in the narrative, much later, it got changed considerably due to all sorts of new information. I've now decided to take the flash forward out. Purely because... Well I don't know why. It just doesn't _feel_ right any more. Which is good I think; a sensible decision.

It did get me thinking what other people thought. It would definitely give the tale a BOOM! IN YO FACE! opening, but is it just a bit... silly?

(I did read the historical threads on this, but I didn't want to drag them up from the deep as it were...)


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## Ireth (Feb 26, 2014)

I read a book not too long ago (_Empire of Night_ in Justin Somper's Vampirates series) that used the flash-forward technique, and in that particular case I don't think it was necessary. The chronological beginning of the story was plenty interesting on its own, IMO. Jumping back in time six weeks from the opening scene to the next one jarred me. If you can pull it off, though, power to you.


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## kayd_mon (Feb 26, 2014)

I like them, for the most part. Often times, I carry on with the story, mostly forgetting that initial flash forward, and then when I come "back" to it later onin the book, then it has a good effect. The old scene comes back, and then I appreciate it all the more.


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## Ruby (Feb 26, 2014)

Hi Rorick, I must admit I don't really like reading prologues as I usually haven't got a clue what they're about until I've read the whole book. I tend to skip the prologue and read it at the end. Having said that, I have written a prologue for one of my WIPs.   I also read somewhere about agents not liking books with prologues, but I don't know how true that is. (There is so much contradictory advice about writing on blogs etc.) On the other hand, when we read/write Fantasy books don't we all expect there to be a prologue?


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## Steerpike (Feb 26, 2014)

I don't generally like prologues either, and will skip them or find another book in many cases (simply because I've come across enough that were not very well done). I don't really have anything against them if they're well done, but it always makes me wonder why the author just didn't start the book where the story starts, and the prologue has to grab me pretty quick.


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## teacup (Feb 26, 2014)

Generally, I'm not a fan of prologues, but some are done well. As long as the prologue isn't just chapter 1 with a different name and as long as they have a real use which wouldn't be better implemented throughout the writing, they can be okay.

Flash forwards can be used to good effect, but be careful. It might seem lazy, I think. Like, you can't think of a good beginning or your story isn't interesting enough at the beginning, so instead you take a bit from later and shove it into the start.


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## Penpilot (Feb 26, 2014)

What ever works works. I like prologues if they're done well and for flash forwards, as long as I can understand what's going on, it's fine with me. Prologues are a writing tool, so to arbitrarily say no to them means you're leaving a tool out of your toolbox.

I took a editing class once taught by an editor of a small press that produced some award winning children's books. We each had to bring in a manuscript to edit and for my novel, he told me I needed a prologue. He said it would help the reader access my world. When I showed him some of my world building notes and stuff, he pointed to a small bit of mythology I wrote and said that should be my prologue.

Writing a good prologue can lighten the work load for an first chapter, allowing a smoother access to the story for the reader.


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## stephenspower (Feb 26, 2014)

I like the prologue flash forward if it does one of two things: 1. As in the second season of Breaking Bad, teases where everything is headed; or 2. as in true crime, depicts either a telling moment for the main character or teases the start of the crime. Either case would work less effectively in the first book of a series than in a subsequent book in which the characters and their drives are already established.


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## Rorick (Feb 28, 2014)

Thanks all.


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## Wormtongue (Mar 9, 2014)

I have no problems with prologues as a reader.  I assume the information is needed and I treat it as a little short story.  But standard rules apply.  It must be well written and grab my attention.

As a writer I have very mixed feelings about prologues.  My main WIP has a prologue but I have struggled with myself about removing it just because I keep seeing "_never use a prologue_", "_I always skip the prologue_", "_publishers hate prologues_", and worst of all (cue the dramatic da-da-daaaa!)...  "_I refuse to read a book if it has a prologue_".

Chances are if the book is well written and enjoyable so will be the prologue.  And the reverse is also true.  I have never read a crappy prologue followed by a wonderful book.

So I'm keeping my prologue and those that skip it or refuse to read the book will just never know what they're missing.


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## T.Allen.Smith (Mar 9, 2014)

For the most part, I feel that prologues are an author's attempt to spoon-feed information that would be better delivered through the telling of the story as it moves along. 

There are exceptions, like the prologue in Game of Thrones for example, where the story is enhanced by the reader seeing something on the other side of the wall, something we won't see again for some time. Plus, the characters that witness the impending doom don't last long enough to be MCs. Until much later the only other knowledge we receive concerning the danger past the wall is through stories meant to frighten children. Other dangers and intrigues take the forefront, but the understanding that something darker draws near, adds another element and anticipation. The characters aren't aware of a danger the reader knows. This was an effective use of prologue, in my opinion.

When considering the use of a prologue, ask yourself if you're delivering information that is both necessary & that cannot be given in the story proper. If the information can be conveyed through the telling of the story as it progresses, it is almost always better.


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## Wormtongue (Mar 9, 2014)

So in short, it's always bad to have a prologue.  Except when it's good.

Problem solved.


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## thecoldembrace (Mar 9, 2014)

I used the prologue in my novel as a way to introduce the main character... and more importantly the force that kind of shapes the main character's life, an ancient lich that abducts his still pregnant mother and does some magicky things to the unborn baby and sets her free after erasing a few hours of her memory)
In the general story I could never have done this, but in the prologue it leaves you wondering several things. Is this undead abomination actually evil or is he playing at evil? What exactly did he do? And because the mother and the lich had a heated conversation I let a few major things about her be exposed... which keeps the mystery flowing from several angles, on several characters.


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## Wormtongue (Mar 9, 2014)

Here is some pretty good info on prologues:  Where to Begin? When, Where and How to Write a Prologue

Hopefully I'm not breaking any rules by linking this.


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## T.Allen.Smith (Mar 10, 2014)

Wormtongue said:


> So in short, it's always bad to have a prologue.  Except when it's good.  Problem solved.



I'd say it's more along the lines of:

Prologues aren't usually necessary. There are always exceptions.

Of course, this is merely my opinion.


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## T.Allen.Smith (Mar 10, 2014)

thecoldembrace said:


> I used the prologue in my novel as a way to introduce the main character... and more importantly the force that kind of shapes the main character's life, an ancient lich that abducts his still pregnant mother and does some magicky things to the unborn baby and sets her free after erasing a few hours of her memory) In the general story I could never have done this, but in the prologue it leaves you wondering several things. Is this undead abomination actually evil or is he playing at evil? What exactly did he do? And because the mother and the lich had a heated conversation I let a few major things about her be exposed... which keeps the mystery flowing from several angles, on several characters.



Let me ask this then... Would the story be better as it is? Or, would it be better if we learned of all these happenings along the way, same as the MC does?

There's no right answer. Just ensure you're not using a prologue because you feel it's an easier way to get the information across. If that is why you want the prologue, the story is probably better served without it.


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## Wormtongue (Mar 10, 2014)

T.Allen.Smith said:


> I'd say it's more along the lines of:
> 
> Prologues aren't usually necessary. There are always exceptions.
> 
> Of course, this is merely my opinion.



We write fantasy.  All that is "necessary" is to be interesting.  

In my opinion (which is a phrase I find redundant) the reason that people don't like prologues is that they are so often infodumps and/or "mood setting".  *He spat to emphasize his distaste.*



T.Allen.Smith said:


> Let me ask this then... Would the story be better as it is? Or, would it be better if we learned of all these happenings along the way, same as the MC does?



That point is valid.  However in some cases it is still better to give the information up front to avoid awkward lectures mid-narrative, or worst of all...  The big antagonist monologue just before the final fight.

But understand that I'm not saying all prologues are good, or even most.   Only that they can be done well and, even if not entirely necessary, can work.


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## T.Allen.Smith (Mar 10, 2014)

I don't disagree with anything you said, and I agree prologues are often info dumps.   Some readers like prologues. I've found few that are to my liking. It's just my preference in writing to avoid using prologues. I'd rather find other ways of getting the info across.


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## ThinkerX (Mar 10, 2014)

In the detective books, I've been seeing more and more 'fake prologues' lately.  Very short, very gripping scenes...that rightfully belong in the middle of the book because that's when they take place.  I believe these are intended to catch the readers interest, because the first chapter or three of these books is usually mundane, not much going on.

That said, depending on how things go with 'Labyrinth', I might include a prologue that is also a flash forward - 'Labyrinth' is written in journal/memoir form, and the prologue MC is an utterly different character who finds this tome twenty years after it was written, which shapes his life afterwards (the sequel to 'Labyrinth', if I ever get that far.)


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## Chilari (Mar 10, 2014)

I am not a fan of prologues. Most of them are badly done. A lot of them are info dumps, and even when they're not most of the time they're written in a different style to the rest of the book, so they're not even representative of the book. Of course, a few are good, but thse a rarity. As for flash forwards, I think they - like prologues - are a feature that work better on screen than in print. They can be effective in playing with the reader's expectations if done right, or if done badly they can end up feeling like a fake-out, to entice a reader with some action before plunging into some boring backstory.


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## Rorick (Mar 10, 2014)

The MS I'm working on had a Flash Forward Prologue. The idea was actually just for me to start with. Something specific to work towards as a tool in my plotting. It was a point in the story I would be revisiting. 

Then I decided it worked quite well, so I kept it. It was straight into some action, gave a pretty good account of what my protagonist was about and asked a slew of question straight off the bat. I was happy.

Then, once I finished the zero draft, I was less happy. Mainly because it kind of gave away a little chunk of plot that actually detracted from the moments leading up to the event, and also because I'd changed the scene and everything that inspired it. So instead of reworking it, I cut it.

My second draft is currently out with a bunch of beta readers and feedback thus far indicates a slow opening. Which I agree with. I could go back to this prologue/flash forward idea and do a better job. What I'm actually more likely to do is cut the first chapter and a half and then backfill those bits of plot as and when I need to.

Using the prologue as a flash forward, to drop the reader right into the action and ask them a few questions, seems like a way of getting them to pay attention to specific details. I'm struggling to think of an example of this though in the real world. 

Thoughts?


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## wordwalker (Mar 10, 2014)

I've always thought of a prologue as a way to isolate *one* element of the story to make the first impression. 

Prologues that don't work are usually ones that try to cover a couple of things (here's life in the castle years before the attack...) or that choose the wrong focus or don't handle it with the precision it deserves. That and, too many so-so writers use prologues out of tradition and give them a bad name, but it's still a powerful technique done right.


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## Steerpike (Mar 10, 2014)

Getting to the points made about grabbing interest, I feel that if you need a prologue to grab a reader's interest, then something is wrong with your Chapter 1.


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## Rorick (Mar 10, 2014)

I've now come to the same conclusion Steerpike, on the whole.


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