# Involving music without writing songs



## SeverinR (Jan 18, 2012)

I am writing a book about a young Bard,

How can I write about her music without writing songs, or lyrics?
I think my first draft did it, but when I look at it I want to highlight the music more, but I am not
into song or music writing.

I write how the crowd reacts, the dragons react, and how she feels when playing, and one big change the MC will sing to the hatchling to eastaablish the bond and the hatchlings love of music.

In the end, there is a funeral, and I want her to play/sing or both for the mourners, the song would be about the life of the deceased, again without attempting something I have no gift/enthusiasm/or experience with.

second:
Can anyone suggest books about fantasy Bards, that you consider well written. (with or without including real songs or music they created.)

My original work is good, but I think I can make it better without showing my ignorance or trying to "fake it".


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## Devor (Jan 18, 2012)

I don't think you can get away with it for a whole book, not easily at least.  You're running afoul of basic storytelling by, well, _telling_ us how great your bard is without showing us any clear examples of it.

I suggest you pick up a book with old folksongs that are in the Public Domain, and tinker with the words here and there to fit your character.  If you only use brief snippets, and change them sufficiently, I think you should be okay.


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## sashamerideth (Jan 18, 2012)

I think a study of poetry would be in order as well, what is a song but poetry set to music?

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## Janga (Jan 18, 2012)

Does the bard play an instrument? I find that Patrick Rothfuss' descriptions during musical parts in his book "The Name of the Wind" is great. Maybe check that out. However, when it comes to lyrics, it would probably be best to include at least some.


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## Graham Irwin (Jan 18, 2012)

You may not be into music or songwriting, but your main character sure is.

You cannot hope to write a story about them being a musician without your having any interest in music, not with it playing such a major part in the story. If you're not writing it because you aren't good at it, don't just not include it, because that won't make any sense if you have your MC as a musician, or music as an important part of your story.


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## Legendary Sidekick (Jan 18, 2012)

I added songs in some of my stories. They're basically poems which are (hopefully) read to fit a rhythm. I have a tune in my head as I write them. (Source of inspiration: I grew up reading Shel Silverstein daily for a number of years. I'm sure he has a tune for every poem.)

Of course your reader won't "hear" the same tune that you had in your head. But I got compliments on the poems, so I think if you have a tune the rhythm comes naturally and you're more likely to succeed as a poet.

I've also narrated an instrumental, but personally I find lyrics are easier to write and are probably easier for the reader to accept as music. In my opinion, your bard will be a stronger character if she can sing.


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## SeverinR (Jan 18, 2012)

It is hard to describe a melody more then a few words, if she just played an instrument it would not be a problem.
But she left without thinking(or preparing) so she doesn't have her gemshorn. So I want to have her sing the lullaby. Maybe that will be all she knows at the start, prefering an instrument.

I did find a written lullaby 
An Elven Lullaby, Holly Ylaraniala Johnson, SciFi Fantasy Art
and this:
Rachel Manning - Elven Lullaby - June 2011 - YouTube
She sings a foriegn language well.


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## SeverinR (Jan 18, 2012)

Graham Irwin said:


> You may not be into music or songwriting, but your main character sure is.
> 
> You cannot hope to write a story about them being a musician without your having any interest in music, not with it playing such a major part in the story. If you're not writing it because you aren't good at it, don't just not include it, because that won't make any sense if you have your MC as a musician, or music as an important part of your story.



I love music, but have no talent in learning an instrument(1 year violin, 1 year French horn, 1 year recorder) I write some poetry but never related to music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhNrAPkmxH4
here is a "bass" Gemshorn in case you never heard of it before.
(MC gets a "special" bass gemshorn as a peace offering at the end of the book(dragon horn)


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## Telcontar (Jan 18, 2012)

You've got to know at least a little about music, and you can always learn a little more. Find out a few of the basics and it might help you write the character a little better. Music theory is a pretty old field, there's bound to be lots of stuff to read on its development. 

I'm a terrible song-writer myself - though I have tried - but I _can_ write a decent couplet here and there. I include them in my stories as 'part' of a song. I just never give the whole song. Including pieces of the lyrics of an implied larger work makes for a pretty good effect, and helps further the illusion of a very 'musical' story.


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## Graham Irwin (Jan 18, 2012)

I'm sure we're all very familiar with Tolkien's songs...


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## SeverinR (Jan 18, 2012)

Graham: I assumed the youtube link was Tolkien's language if not actually his songs.
I assume thats what you mean. 

I am reviewing old time lullabies, they aren't difficult.


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## Graham Irwin (Jan 18, 2012)

SeverinR said:


> Graham: I assumed the youtube link was Tolkien's language if not actually his songs.
> I assume thats what you mean.




I meant that I feel the way his characters sing songs which tell the story of the people is ingenious. The rhymes of the dwarves are dirty and funny, the elves are elegant, etc. They tell you about the peoples, tell you about the history of the story's world, and provide wonderful poetic interludes between the exposition and scenes of walking. So much walking.


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## SeverinR (Jan 18, 2012)

My first attempt at a lullaby:

Melima’s Lullaby

Sleep, katinar, Sleep
The unicorns frolic in the prairie
Their plush coat is white as sleet.
Dancing in moonlight so merry
Sleep, katinar, sleep

Sleep, katinar, sleep
Listen to the music of the faun
Playing while their kin do meet
As they rest upon the lawn.
Sleep, katinar, sleep

Sleep, katinar, sleep
All woodland creatures lay to rest
Laying silent without a peep.
Dreaming of play at its best
Sleep, katinar, sleep

Sleep, katinar, sleep
Pixies over katinar do hover
Thy rest Tiata does keep
Flitting about with their lover
Sleep Katinar sleep.
Sleep now, katinar, sleep

(Katinar is kitten in elvish, and what her human nanny called her.)


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## Graham Irwin (Jan 18, 2012)

I like it a lot! Very pretty. I'm (yawn) feeling sleepy now...


I would say two things: One, unicorns aren't really plush... maybe sleek coat, or thick? 
                                 Two, peep is a funny word that doesn't fit the beauty of the rest of the poem.


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## Butterfly (Jan 18, 2012)

SeverinR said:


> I am writing a book about a young Bard,
> 
> How can I write about her music without writing songs, or lyrics?
> I think my first draft did it, but when I look at it I want to highlight the music more, but I am not
> ...




I think you will have to do some research around the terms used in music for this.  For a glossary look at here (but it doesn't have all terms) - Glossary of Musical Terms - Musical terms are mainly Italian, but perhaps you could translate their meaning into English as it is unlikely all your readers would understand them anyway.

Tenuto, legato, stacatto, marcato - indicate how a note should be played.

Largo, andante, adagio, presto - the tempo.

Major, harmonic minor, melodic minor - the scale of key - G major, or A minor, for instance.

Pianissmo (soft, quiet), fortissimo (loud), crescendo, diminuendo - volume

I'm assuming your bard would either play the lute or harp - so look at violin terms, pizzicato, for instance. Look at Gaita medieval music - for a medieval music ensemble. 

Technology has played a major part in the development of instruments, for instance, an early trumpet could only play five notes - the pentatonic scale - until the invention of valves to lengthen or shorten the tubes. Flutes that were made of wood were inaccurate in the placing of holes and were a lot harder to play than modern flutes (Theobald Boehm sorted that issue). The only instrument that science and technology cannot improve on is the violin.

There are different terms for singers - a capella - 1 or 2 singers without instrumental accompaniment. If there are group they would harmonise to the four voices (SATB) - Soprano, alto, tenor, and bass.

A famous bard (at least in Wales) who comes to mind is Taliesin. Perhaps you could do some research on him for inspiration.

Hope some of this helps you. The theory and the history of music is a huge area to consider learning, but the most important element (I think) is to look at the terms and take what you need from there.


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## Graham Irwin (Jan 18, 2012)

Gee, you sound like my partner. She's studying musicology!


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## sashamerideth (Jan 18, 2012)

Looks good, to add to Graham's points, the first and last line repetition may be OK if there is a musical break but it gets in the way when read right away as a lullaby would be. Read it out loud and see if you agree with me. 

The kids books I have shelved and read to kids rarely echo first and last lines like that, but you do have that repeating refrain, which is the right thing to do.

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## grahamguitarman (Jan 18, 2012)

try reading Anne McCaffreys Dragonsong and Dragonsinger, I've not read them for a looong time but I do seem to recall that even thouth the MC is a musician and music runs heavily through the story there isn't actually a lot of actual song words.

If your trying to convey the background history to certain events in song form like Tolkien, then by all means write out the song lyrics.  But it is equally possible to describe beautiful music and songs without actually writing a single lyric, or even knowing music theory / history.

I play a few instruments myself, and occsasionally dabble in composition, but whether that would make me better at depicting a musician or not I don't know.  I suspect I'd be more influenced by my musician firends and their personalities / lifestyles than by what I personally know about music making

the limited experiences you've described having with instruments is I think more than enough to ensure your writing is reasonably accurate technically.  

BTW the lullaby is good


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## SeverinR (Jan 19, 2012)

Good replies to all.

Graham Irwin(two Grahams posting now); I understand now, I thought you were upset with me posting the person singing as "yea we know".  
Unicorns-plush, well traditional unicorns, but what about the cold weather unicorns? Horses hair gets pretty plush in the winter.
Peep: it was written in forty minutes at work with a few interruptions, (darn work getting in the way of creativity.)

Grahamguitar
: thanks, I will look into those books. My library doesn't have any other books by my favorite writer, so now is a good time to expand.
I think my original piece did a good job of supporting music in it, at the level at which it was, but with me wanting to expand more into music, I will need to be more music literate, but not sure I "have to" write music to tell of a bard's story. 
A modern example, Could I not tell the story/life of _insert rock star name here_ without including whole songs in the story? Reference the stars works, maybe quote a few lines, but I think the story is in how the star affects his/her audience, thier dedication to stick to it in hard times, etc.  

Butterfly: I have stuck with the non-traditional air wind instruments, rather then the traditional stringed.  The gem shorn only has three holes to make its music, but I think it has a great and relaxing sound.  

The lullaby was written similar to one I found online that repeated first and last, rhymned 1st and second thrid line with fourth, I went with rhymne every other line.


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## SeverinR (Jan 19, 2012)

Graham Irwin said:


> I like it a lot! Very pretty. I'm (yawn) feeling sleepy now...
> 
> 
> I would say two things: One, unicorns aren't really plush... maybe sleek coat, or thick?
> Two, peep is a funny word that doesn't fit the beauty of the rest of the poem.



Thinking back, I did not like peep, but it was a close rhyme,

Here is the lullaby I used as a model:
Sleep Baby Sleep


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## SeverinR (Jan 19, 2012)

"The true power of a bard is to draw energy from a crowd, returning it back to them in an emotional and meaningful way.” 
One of the quotes of her teacher.

http://severinr.deviantart.com/art/Power-of-a-bard-265547820 the sight I first published it on, also where I post some other forms of art, including the written word.


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## SeverinR (Jan 26, 2012)

grahamguitarman said:


> try reading Anne McCaffreys Dragonsong and Dragonsinger, I've not read them for a looong time but I do seem to recall that even thouth the MC is a musician and music runs heavily through the story there isn't actually a lot of actual song words.
> 
> If your trying to convey the background history to certain events in song form like Tolkien, then by all means write out the song lyrics.  But it is equally possible to describe beautiful music and songs without actually writing a single lyric, or even knowing music theory / history.
> 
> ...


Had to go with Dragonsinger, dragonsong wasn't in. I've read part two before part one many times, a well written sequel is a complete book in itself, even if it continues a story.

It had an interesting start, only 4 chapters in.


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## SeverinR (Jan 31, 2012)

Finished the book, Dragonsinger, in almost record time for me.

Not sure I can ramble off music tech as easily as the author did. I know I can write a mc with a beginner musician level, not sure about advanced. I only took 1 year of violin, 1 year of horn, and two years of chorus all in elementary school.
Even more so since the focus is on the elf-dragonet bond and their mutual love of music, rather then learning the difference between a quarter note and a thirty second note.

I think this goes back to what level of expertise is an author trying to portray.
Anyone should be able to write on a basic level on any given topic with minor research. But if you want to write about a master's degree level of understanding your going to have to do alot of research.


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## CMSikora (Jan 31, 2012)

I recommend one series for songs, but I urge you to get the audiobook for the full effect. The Bloody Jack series, although it's historical, contains a whole bunch of songs and shanties that go well in the same style as a bard. The second book, The Curse of the Blue Tattoo is especially full of these songs.

These songs contain lyrics and are sung by the incredibly talented narrator. Hopefully they help.


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## ascanius (Feb 2, 2012)

I have done something similar to what you are describing.  What I did was describe the sound of the music as the character heard it, metaphors helped too.  But I will say that knowing an instrument myself has helped.  I would recommend looking up music dynamic markings and basic theory such as melody, and harmony.  Then describe the music in the context of those words and how they sound.  For instance. 
The soft crescendo of her voice filled the air.  Each note tied to the next, only to end in sharp staccatos that soared high above like vivid sparks.  The gentle diminuendo of her voice grew with the stillness around her to fade into nothingness.  She let the silence grow before getting up and walking away.
All you really have to do is describe the music and how it flows, how it feels.  Like for a funeral the song would be in a minor key, this gives it a sad feeling.  Describe how the song progresses from beginning to end.  I always try to think of the music in terms of wind, or fire, or a heart beat.  Something to compare it to then go from their and describe how it can be harrowing, or joyful and the ways it is.  What you really need to do, what everyone needs to do is listen to classical music.  Chopin, Bach, Vivaldi, Brahms, Litz, Mendlesson, Mozart is ok too.  Close your eyes and feel the music.  I do this every time I play the piano always in the dark with my eyes closed and I would rather be blind than deaf.  Do that and remember how the music flowed.  Try to feel how you want your readers to feel when they read it.


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## SeverinR (Feb 2, 2012)

Asca: Your second paragraph sounds great, but I haven't the slightest idea what it really says. I know they are characteristics of music, but I couldn't identify them in a song.

3rd P: Actually, hearing the gemshorn being played motivated me to make it a bigger part of the book.  With the MC being a novice I can write easily on that level.  But if I do a sequel, she would be a full bard then, not sure I can write at that level without alot of research. But I will look into what you suggest.

I would describe the gemshorn's sound as a cross between a flute and a recorder(flutaphone). More limited then both, because it only has three holes on top and one behind(optional).


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## JCFarnham (Feb 2, 2012)

If I wasn't a musician myself all ready I would try and write this from the point of view of someone who knows equally as little. From then on you only really need to deal with sensory description and emotional reaction.

Of course I am a musician and have written a "small number" of songs so the above doesn't really count in my case does it


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## SeverinR (Feb 2, 2012)

Maybe the sequel will be told by a different person, rather then following the Bard.
Still her story, just from someone else's viewpoint.


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## JCFarnham (Feb 2, 2012)

SeverinR said:


> Maybe the sequel will be told by a different person, rather then following the Bard.
> Still her story, just from someone else's viewpoint.



Ah, now there's an interesting idea. I don't believe I've read a sequel which continues one character's story using a different point of view from the first book. Of course if you can think of some worth while series that do it I'd be interested enough to read them... as long as they aren't 35 book in series, written over 20 billion years, it's all good (I don't know anyone who has that kind of reading time in their lives haha).

Even when you are using the Bards pov, you should still really push the sensory element. I like to think at a certain point that most Musicians stop copying when playing and start instictively feeling what they are doing. For me, music shouldn't be and isn't mechanical - ironically I've played in a number of classical orchestras so what am _I_ saying? . So to portray a travelling musician realism suggest the focus would be on senses and feeling.


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## SeverinR (Feb 2, 2012)

I can see getting to wrapped up in "music tech" as with any other specialty and losing the emotional connection.
Which is basically what I am writing about.
The magic of a bard, influencing the listeners emotions, motivations, and attitude. A relative weak magic alone, but powerful in a group.
So there will need to be some educational stuff for her as she learns, but it is more about the music.  She plays the Gemshorn and just started the lute before the story begins. Learning to play songs, not learning music.


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## JCFarnham (Feb 2, 2012)

Sounds good, and (ignoring me) some good advice right here in this thread. You seem well on your way!


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## ascanius (Feb 4, 2012)

Sorry about the wall of text ya'll.  First,I think that emotion should be of the utmost importance and not the technical musical notation; dynamics, forte, crescendo, diminuendo, etc.  Go for the overall emotional "flow,"of the music and not the technical details.  I say this seeing that the vast majority to not understand musical notation when I mean, diminuendo etc.  go for the feeling, and the emotion it evokes.  Worry about how the music impacts other characters but also how the music paints a picture.

I hope this helps along with the other useful information others have provided..


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## Klee Shay (Feb 4, 2012)

You could go the route of Elizabeth Hayden in her Symphony of Ages series. Her main character, Rhapsody,amost never has specific lyrics, she describes her character as singing her morning aubades, evening vespers, (Rhapsody always sings to the rising and setting sun), etc. Haydon does occasionally put lyrics in but it's almost always Grunthor who sings dirty, disgusting, military marching songs (his favorite is 'Leave No Limb Unbroken).

You might try saying your character sings certain styles at certain times without ever having to write down the words. Or not very often, anyway.


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