# List of Over-Done Stories



## Devor (Feb 29, 2012)

Somebody I know reposted this on Facebook, a list from the sci-fi/fantasy magazine Strange Horizons of story submissions they see too often.

Strange Horizons Fiction Department: Stories We've Seen Too Often

I thought it might be interesting for some of you here.  Take a look.


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## sashamerideth (Feb 29, 2012)

Great, 7c is similar to my story, with the exception of the main character being good to begin with, and redemption is not to be found.


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## JCFarnham (Feb 29, 2012)

sashamerideth said:


> Great, 7c is similar to my story, with the exception of the main character being good to begin with, and redemption is not to be found.



And yet, as with all cliches, do it well (or as a tribute, or lampshade it, or ... etc.) and no one will mind. Sure a certain population may turn their noses at the mere mention but that isn't a reason to change the anchoring factor of your story.  Often all you need to do is have a chracter mention how weird [random fact] is and be done with it.

I did discover a few points on that list for the first time while reading mind you. I didn't know some were over done! I guess Strange Horizons should know mind you.

Phew!


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## Anders Ã„mting (Feb 29, 2012)

Bit of a misleading title. This is more a list of "Examples of bad writing we've seen too often."



> Someone calls technical support for a magical item.



That actually sounds fun.



> Scientist uses himself or herself as test subject.



Come on, isn't that one a bit too vague?


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## Devor (Feb 29, 2012)

I should probably note, the submissions they receive are for short stories, where there aren't quite as many ways to pull the same concept off in a new and creative way as you can in a novel.


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## grahamguitarman (Feb 29, 2012)

Interesting list,  I don't think they are saying these are bad story ideas per se.  Just that they have seen them so often that they have got fed up with seeing them.  

But the chances are that other publishers have probably got very similar lists with very similar plotlines, so this is a good insight.

One that surprised me, was the one about fat people, mostly because I couldn't believe that anyone would even think that fat = evil (lazy possibly but not evil).  And even classing all fat people as lazy is lazy writing in itself, in real life overweight people are much more complex than that and often very vulnerable.


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## JCFarnham (Feb 29, 2012)

grahamguitarman said:


> One that surprised me, was the one about fat people, mostly because I couldn't believe that anyone would even think that fat = evil (lazy possibly but not evil).  And even classing all fat people as lazy is lazy writing in itself, in real life overweight people are much more complex than that and often very vulnerable.



I think what they're driving at here albeit in a terribly heavy handed way is that fatness in science fiction type stories is often short hand for the symbolistic "bloated rich capitalist = evil", the theory being that poor people can't feed themselves, therefore rich people must be fat and so rich = being the man = evil. Its certainly an old idea that's been used time and time again in anti-capitalist works, dystopian fiction, etc., but I wouldn't have thought it was all that prevailent in this day and age. Interesting how stuff propagates through literature isn't it.


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## Caged Maiden (Feb 29, 2012)

I hope it doesn't sound condescending, but the list sort of sounds like things kids might find basis' for plots.  I think a few of them sound cool as elements in a story, like debating spiritual/ political views (I did this as a part of one of my plots with a young man who was struggling to find where he fit in the world), or the medical technology breakthrough.... but it says right after, how lame they find it when the situation they are mentioning is the WHOLE plot..... and it makes me wonder what sort of target they are aiming the list at. 
I agree with Anders.... it's just poor writing.  However.... I'm not published (though I've never had the confidence to try), but it seems like people sent in a lot of "first works" because they got all excited they'd finished something, and forgot that good writing takes practice, not quirky silly plots that make agents sigh or roll their eyes.
THANKS for the list.


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## grahamguitarman (Feb 29, 2012)

JCFarnham said:


> I think what they're driving at here albeit in a terribly heavy handed way is that fatness in science fiction type stories is often short hand for the symbolistic "bloated rich capitalist = evil", the theory being that poor people can't feed themselves, therefore rich people must be fat and so rich = being the man = evil. Its certainly an old idea that's been used time and time again in anti-capitalist works, dystopian fiction, etc., but I wouldn't have thought it was all that prevailent in this day and age. Interesting how stuff propagates through literature isn't it.


Sorry I didn't write that very well I'm afraid (distracted by the kids) it should have been; I couldn't believe that anyone would even think that fat = evil [in this day and age].

I'm aware of the fat capitalist cliche, I was just surprised to hear that they still get a lot of story submissions where fatness is used as a cheap shorthand signifier of evil.  Surely modern writers should have outgrown such simplistic tropes by now!

its a trope that wouldn't even have occurred to me.


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## Philip Overby (Feb 29, 2012)

Could you imagine the list for horror or even vampire/werewolf/wizard young adult fiction?  I can't even fathom what that would be.  Probably don't want to know.


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## Caged Maiden (Feb 29, 2012)

I am a great big fan of the list now, after looking at it a second and third time..... If you are as well, please join the List-Plot Challenge.  http://mythicscribes.com/forums/challenges/2560-list-plot-challenge.html#post31025


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## Caged Maiden (Feb 29, 2012)

grahamguitarman said:


> its a trope that wouldn't even have occurred to me.




Yeah I can honestly say that nothing on this list has ever occurred to me a the basis for a plot.  It's worrying, isn't it?  ANd your heart sort of goes out to the people who have to sort through all the manuscripts.....


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## grahamguitarman (Feb 29, 2012)

Phil the Drill said:


> Could you imagine the list for horror or even vampire/werewolf/wizard young adult fiction?  I can't even fathom what that would be.  Probably don't want to know.



If you dare look:

Strange Horizons Fiction Department: Horror Stories We've Seen Too Often


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## JCFarnham (Feb 29, 2012)

grahamguitarman said:


> If you dare look:
> 
> Strange Horizons Fiction Department: Horror Stories We've Seen Too Often



#15 is inspired. haha


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## grahamguitarman (Feb 29, 2012)

zombeeeees!


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## Drakhov (Feb 29, 2012)

JCFarnham said:


> #15 is inspired. haha



Zombies are cool


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## Benjamin Clayborne (Feb 29, 2012)

I am relieved that none of my stories, so far, match any of the ones listed.


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## Sparkie (Feb 29, 2012)

A few of these read like old Twilight Zone episodes.

Sadly, a story I posted in the Shocase forum (The Severing) matches up a little with point 9:g.  In my defense, however, I wasn't really going for a twist ending.


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## Muqtada (Feb 29, 2012)

6d was a plot point in the first draft of my WIP. Luckily I ended up removing that and setting the start of the story twenty years later in the timeline--made things much less cliche


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## Anders Ã„mting (Feb 29, 2012)

Muqtada said:


> 6d was a plot point in the first draft of my WIP. Luckily I ended up removing that and setting the start of the story twenty years later in the timeline--made things much less cliche



Note that they're not saying "never do this", but rather "never do _only_ this." As in, don't base your whole plot on that one thing.

Like Devor said, it's probably easier to get away with this if you're writing a novel rather then a short story, since short stories have less room for subplots.


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## Ghost (Feb 29, 2012)

I love setting at least as much as my characters and probably more than my plots. Even so, I can't imagine 8. How does anyone even think that's a story?

The only one I have is 12. It's a story partially inspired by Linda Hazzard. My healer thinks she's helping people and she believes her method works. I don't think I'm in too much danger there.


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## Caged Maiden (Feb 29, 2012)

Wow, I think the horror list is much more interesting than the fantasy/sci-fi list.  In fact, as I read down the list, I just named off the movies whose plot is EXACTLY what they were mentioning.  Actually, I don't read or watch horror (except vampire and werewolf movies which I LOVE because I wish I were one), but if one were to eliminate all these plot devices from their horror writing... um, not do be dumb, but what's left?  I mean, take out the evil clowns that no one can see, the zombies, the houses on haunted hill, serial killers, gremlins, and whatever the Ring was..... and I don't even know what's left in the genre, honestly.


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## Devor (Feb 29, 2012)

Ouroboros said:


> I love setting at least as much as my characters and probably more than my plots. Even so, I can't imagine 8. How does anyone even think that's a story?



I imagine it's something like a walk through Dante's Inferno, only without Dante there to walk.  If it's an intricate enough setting, I could see someone doing it and thinking that's enough.  In fact, maybe I'll do it for anihow's challenge.





Anders Ã„mting said:


> _Someone calls technical support for a magical item_
> 
> That actually sounds fun.



My wife just reminded me that they did it on Sesame Street.  The ukulele made Snuffy invisible, and they had to call in for a missing part.


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## ThinkerX (Feb 29, 2012)

Close brush with 7C on the fantasy list...but the character was not that 'evil', and redemption was only part of the picture.

15A, though...yep, lots of my older stories fall into this catagory...but then again the world was created as part of a D&D campaign!  Since then, though, on the works I've elected to attempt to do something with, I've really downplayed or dramatically altered the gaming elements...I hope.

Parts of the Horror list read like an idictment against Lovecraft.  When did he become cliche'?


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## Corvus (Mar 1, 2012)

Person is (metaphorically) at point A, wants to be at point B. Looks at point B, says "I want to be at point B." Walks to point B, encountering no meaningful obstacles or difficulties. The end. (A.k.a. the linear plot.)

What if the person is at point A and does NOT want to "go" to point B but has to anyway? That's basically my plot condensed in to one sentence. It does have other things like a subplot that collides whit the main plot etc.

Still interesting lists. Reading the horror one reminded me why I don't watch horror movies.


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## Leif GS Notae (Mar 1, 2012)

Corvus said:


> Person is (metaphorically) at point A, wants to be at point B. Looks at point B, says "I want to be at point B." Walks to point B, encountering no meaningful obstacles or difficulties. The end. (A.k.a. the linear plot.)
> 
> What if the person is at point A and does NOT want to "go" to point B but has to anyway? That's basically my plot condensed in to one sentence. It does have other things like a subplot that collides whit the main plot etc.
> 
> Still interesting lists. Reading the horror one reminded me why I don't watch horror movies.



That is technically conflict, so it can work out well. Writing the story needs conflict to keep it going, I think you can cover that with "not wanting to go to point B".

As far as the lists go, these are amusing and sad to see people get uninspired to write or read. No wonder there are 17 million manuscripts sent in and only 1% of 1% get accepted every year (ish). If they all write with these plots, there is a bleak future for writers out there... *sigh*

Except everyone here, we all rock and will save the world with our awesome tech support stories!


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## eternaldream24 (Mar 1, 2012)

Thankfully, my story doesn't fall into any of these. I was thinking about doing the whole it was all in the protagonists head thing, but I really don't like books like that.


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## Lord Darkstorm (Mar 1, 2012)

I think the d&d players finding themselves in the d&d world could be a hilarious plot.  Having been in a rpg group or two, I can imagine how badly that would have gone.  

As for horror movies lacking original plots...um...when did horror movies require a plot?  Honestly, I don't watch zombie movies for a plot, I watch them for the zombies!  It base gory entertainment that requires no real thought (other than how stupid it is not to run away when the nasty thing shows up), and you can waste an hour or two enjoying the rarely believable events that happen.  Which is probably why I don't read horror.

What I didn't see on the horror list is the teen falls in love with vampire/werewolf/zombie (although that could be more interesting) plot.  Maybe that goes under the overdone romance plots?


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## grahamguitarman (Mar 1, 2012)

what would be even funnier would be the D&D characters finding themselves suddenly appearing in the real world!


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## Benjamin Clayborne (Mar 1, 2012)

Lord Darkstorm said:


> I think the d&d players finding themselves in the d&d world could be a hilarious plot.  Having been in a rpg group or two, I can imagine how badly that would have gone.



There have been a number of stories with that exact premise, including a novel series called _*Guardians of the Flame*_ from around 20 years ago that had a D&D (well, it wasn't D&D specifically, it was a Generic Fantasy RPG) group suddenly getting sucked into the fantasy world. And they're actually stuck there permanently; as far as I know they never get home. So they adapt and live out their lives there. I only read the first few books before I lost interest (granted, I was a teenager at the time), so I have no idea how well it holds up.


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## Anders Ã„mting (Mar 1, 2012)

Corvus said:


> Person is (metaphorically) at point A, wants to be at point B. Looks at point B, says "I want to be at point B." Walks to point B, encountering no meaningful obstacles or difficulties. The end. (A.k.a. the linear plot.)



"People living at point C, being a point directly in between, are often given to wonder what’s so great about point A that so many people from point B are so keen to get there, and what’s so great about point B that so many people from point A are so keen to get there. They often wish that people would just once and for all work out where the hell they wanted to be.

Mr. Prosser wanted to be at point D. Point D wasn’t anywhere in particular, it was just any convenient point a very long way from points A, B and C. He would have a nice little cottage at point D, with axes over the door, and spend a pleasant amount of time at point E, which would be the nearest pub to point D. His wife of course wanted climbing roses, but he wanted axes. He didn’t know why—he just liked axes."


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## Elder the Dwarf (Mar 1, 2012)

Sparkie said:


> A few of these read like old Twilight Zone episodes.
> 
> Sadly, a story I posted in the Shocase forum (The Severing) matches up a little with point 9:g.  In my defense, however, I wasn't really going for a twist ending.



They don't read like old twilight zone episodes.  They are point for point exactly the old twilight episodes.


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## sashamerideth (Mar 3, 2012)

Elder the Dwarf said:
			
		

> They don't read like old twilight zone episodes.  They are point for point exactly the old twilight episodes.



Someone must really not like the Twilight Zone.


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## Amanita (Mar 3, 2012)

Well, none of these resembles what I'm doing besides the evil doctor who's doing experiments on his patients. I have one of those, but it's only one of various things he's doing and doesn't directly affect the main characters.
The scientists who is testing his or her discoveries on himself or herself can make for an interesting story though and it's not been uncommon in earlier times at all. Unlike with most other things on the list I see no reason not to use it.

This one's rather "funny" though.


> b.The author is apparently unaware of the American constitutional amendment prohibiting cruel and unusual punishment, and so postulates that in the future, American punishment will be extra-cruel in some unusual way.


Of course, everyone in the distant, possibly dystopian future will follow the American constitution. :insertevillaughhere (Sorry, had to try out one those new smiley.)


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## Elder the Dwarf (Mar 3, 2012)

sashamerideth said:


> Someone must really not like the Twilight Zone.



Not at all, that isn't what I meant.  Twilight Zone was far before my time, and tv then was much different than what it is now, so it is hard for me to judge it on its enjoyment value because of the difference of eras, if that makes any sense.  That being said, I don't mind the episodes that I've seen.  I was just saying that three or four of the twilight zone episodes I _have_ seen are exactly what they have listed.

That might be understood so let me clarify that the statement is not in any way a knock on the twilight zone.  I think many of those plots probably originated (or became popular) from that show, and the authors that write sci-fi and submit to this publisher are unknowingly (or knowingly) replicating these plots.  To me that doesn't mean the plots are bad, just over used now.  I hope some of that made sense.


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