# Timelines and Chronologies



## ScipioSmith (Jul 13, 2012)

Has anybody else noticed that its much easier to just state some big number in the backstory than it is to actually fill that space up with events?

When I started writing I imagined that there would thousands of years of history, but now that I'm actually plotting out a chronology, so that the numbers given stay consistent with one another, and I'm finding that at the current rate the whole thing, from the arrival of the oldest gods to the beginning of the book, is going to ocuppy somewhat in the region of the two thousand years. The First Age took only two hundred and fifty, and Elvendom has risen, fell, risen again and finally imploded under the weight of its own brutality in just over four hundred. 

Part of me thinks that this isn't unrealistic- some historical empires haven't even made it that far- but another part of me thinks its awfully small for a fantasy novel- in the Belgariad after all, events five hundred years past happened five thousand years after creation. But the problem is that, with events so progressive, I don't feel I can just go chucking in great gaps between one thing and the next. 

Has anybody else who has bothered to plot out the backstory chronology run into this problem, of not having enough stuff to fill all the time you thought you'd have?


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## Saigonnus (Jul 13, 2012)

I wouldn't worry too much about it, especially if these sequences of events aren't going to be made plain to the readers or affect the story in any way. I had the idea for a long history for the cultures I am working with for my story, but realized the principal culture has been warlike for a long time and much of their history would be lost in the smoke and chaos. The other cultures are more knowledgable about their history, but since it isn't really important to the story in it's present manifestation, I chose not to go too deep into it at all... 

When history is given in the story, I focused more on the "recent history"; grand events in the times of their fathers/grandfathers instead of a long narrative about how the Talutah Ooljee came to be what they are... rising from the ashes of an ancient culture and learning to cooperate with nature in such a manner that they could control it. How they learned to feel the energies of the world and use it to perform "magic" as it were. How they grew the massive trees that would become their principal community...


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## ThinkerX (Jul 13, 2012)

I used to do detailed chronologies for my worlds, going year by year and nation by nation, and yes I did notice some gaps.

But take a peek at real world history, especially ancient history: ancient Egypt was a major powerhouse for *thousands* of years, went through a number of dynastic changes, invasions, and swings from major empire to client state of somebody tougher.  But plot all that out on a timeline, and there are long periods - as in hundreds of years - where 'nothing major happened'.  And it is the same story around the world: lots of places have a lot of history, but they also went through long periods where 'nothing much happened'.

So I've started to go that route with the back histories of the various nations of my worlds.  Yes, there are 'active periods' - invasions, conquests, migrations, collapses - but there are also a lot of long 'quiet periods' as well.  I do have to be a bit careful and detailed with more recent history - last couple hundred years - because things happened then that created situations which my characters have to act or react against now.  But, even within that span, there are 'quiet periods' of several decades.


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## Zophos (Jul 14, 2012)

Yeah, even two thousand years of a singular chronological standard is difficult. It's even more difficult if you have major power shifts between one or more cultures, much less one or more races. Now, that's not to say that a single culture can't point back several thousand years (the Chinese calendar, for example predates the Western by 4,000 years or so), but for that to be the standard for the entire world is monumental, let alone unprecedented.

It's not just a matter of filling in whitespace. It's also a matter of the actual record surviving that long, especially if you rely on rote recitation as a historical marker. The one thing Robert Jordan did well was the whole Wheel of Time cycle. "Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again."

There is something to be said for the reckoning of time by races that have a longer life-span. We don't have any verifiable historical reference of how that might change things. If your average dwarf lives 200 years and the average generational age or procreation cycle or whatever you want to call it is even a number like 50 vice the 15-20 of humane existence, things would tend to get stretched out a bit. At least that's how I explain it.

There's also a good possibility that a race or culture that is longer lived doesn't even reckon time or ticks off the years, ages and eras much differently. Taking the book of Genesis from the Bible as an example and treating it literally, over the first thousand years from Adam to Noah, men lived for 900 or more years and bread well past half of that term. Within a thousand years more we were down into the 200s and by 1200 BC lifespans were on par with current standards. Even that is difficult to believe, however, when one considers the vagueries of nutrition, medicine, etc. in the millenia prior to the current era.


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## Zophos (Jul 14, 2012)

ThinkerX said:


> ...But plot [Egypt] out on a timeline, and there are long periods - as in hundreds of years - where 'nothing major happened'.  And it is the same story around the world: lots of places have a lot of history, but they also went through long periods where 'nothing much happened'.
> 
> ....Yes, there are 'active periods' - invasions, conquests, migrations, collapses - but there are also a lot of long 'quiet periods' as well.....



Absolutely agree and good perspective. Change wasn't something that was seen as necessary in earlier periods of human history, and it certainly wasn't welcome. Those active periods you speak to were often the result of catastrophe, plague, or a slowly growing population finally getting so large that it ran out of resources or room and had to look to conquest to sustain itself. 

As a species we haven't faced that kind of challenge to humanity in a very long time. Still, because the borders of our worlds/kingdoms/habitats have closed on one another, we've managed to manufacture it and hold ourselves in a steady state of war for the last 2000 years. The next big challenge is likely to come when the lights go out, cataclysm finds us or we're overrun by little green men.


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## topazfire (Jul 14, 2012)

ScipioSmith said:


> Has anybody else noticed that its much easier to just state some big number in the backstory than it is to actually fill that space up with events?
> 
> Has anybody else who has bothered to plot out the backstory chronology run into this problem, of not having enough stuff to fill all the time you thought you'd have?



I have certainly had the same issues over the past few months and completely sympathize. My friend is writing an urban fantasy that takes place in our city and her 200 year timeline based on actual events seem so much more attainable. Writing out, even in some basic point form, the 2000 or so years of prehistory is such a huge undertaking that I have found it distracting from the lives of the characters I am actually trying to write about. 

The important thing I have finally found is that, if something happened in the past that directly affects the situation, or the decision of your characters in your work, then that piece of history should be developed in some form. 

The rest of the historical details, if they are necessary to the deeper understanding of the story (and sometimes even if not) can be an appendix, or even a prequel to be developed later. 

I am a huge believer that history (especially personal family history) can have an impact on who you are as a person (meaning your characters). Being from Canada, I find it odd when I meet other Canadians who don't know when their family arrived here, other than our First Nations of course. If that history directly affects your main character(s) it should be addressed at least in some respect, in the work. If not, then it is a great exercise for your imagination!


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## Steerpike (Jul 14, 2012)

You can have as many gaps of time as you want if they have no bearing on the story you are telling. The events you are detailing can take place 15,000 years after creation, and if only the last two centuries impact the story then that's all you have to include. You wouldn't write a novel about the American Revolution and start by telling people what was going on in Sumerian cities in 4000 B.C. 

If you want to go into all that detail for your own benefit as the author, you can do so, but you certainly do not have to.


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## ScipioSmith (Jul 15, 2012)

Steerpike said:


> You can have as many gaps of time as you want if they have no bearing on the story you are telling. The events you are detailing can take place 15,000 years after creation, and if only the last two centuries impact the story then that's all you have to include. You wouldn't write a novel about the American Revolution and start by telling people what was going on in Sumerian cities in 4000 B.C.
> 
> If you want to go into all that detail for your own benefit as the author, you can do so, but you certainly do not have to.



I might have to if the novel involved the Sumerians coming forward in time and invading Virginia, and that's not a million miles from what happens in the second book.


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## Steerpike (Jul 15, 2012)

ScipioSmith said:


> I might have to if the novel involved the Sumerians coming forward in time and invading Virginia, and that's not a million miles from what happens in the second book.



Yes, if it is germane to the story you are telling, then you go into the detail. But my point is, there is no reason you can't have long gaps of time that are not germane to the story and simply gloss over them, if in fact you mention them at all, in your novel.


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## Godzilax99 (Jul 16, 2012)

I can understand what you are going through, because I also was planning on the timeline of my story and the history of all the nations, kingdoms and empire. Probably this is the thing about world building.. I even try to create gods and their history..

But I do realized that if you are too focused on timeline and the details of it, you might end up going too deep in. If you just want to make a world and then create stories after stories from it, then I think it's fine, but if you just want to write a story and see where it will lead you, then you just focus on the story and the immediate history.. 

I personally won't want to read all the history of the world. I prefer to just have a little idea of what happened maybe few years ago that create this conflict between Kingdom A and Kingdom B, and a bit of details making the conflict logical.. Maybe Kingdom A was enslaved by Kingdom B and thus the hatred was there for revenge.. and thus create the conflict..


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## Benjamin Clayborne (Jul 16, 2012)

scipiosmith said:


> i might have to if the novel involved the sumerians coming forward in time and invading virginia, and that's not a million miles from what happens in the second book.



Shut up and take my money!


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## Jess A (Jul 16, 2012)

I like to have a basic idea of early history, then a more detailed one closer to the events of my book, and a very detailed one which spans over so many years. This helps me plot and understand what events happened where.

Older histories can give me context on what conflicts/attitudes to give a particular country or person. It may also give me plot ideas.

As for gaps to fill - it depends on how fast technology is advancing, for example. Or evolution. I guess it pays to see how long those things take in reality. Macro evolution being on a huge scale and technology today being on a tiny scale. I still can't work out an iPhone. I usually have more trouble with the recent histories, the stuff that really, really matters to the plot.

None of this may get into the novel itself. It's for my personal reference. I also do family trees - I have one for the royal family because I need to know who is in line for the throne and how closely related they are, who is a threat etc. My readers won't see it but I certainly need it. 

You can get away with the background stuff. As someone mentioned earlier, look at Egypt.


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