# Gender neutral stage



## caters (Feb 5, 2016)

Right now I am editing my Kepler Bb story and I am at the point where Lisa takes care of her baby.

During the first chapter several things happen like Robin building a shelter and expanding it, Lisa hunting, and Lisa getting bit by a venomous snake.

The humanoids in my story are externally gender neutral from birth to 5 years.

So far I have only used "the baby", "her baby", "Lisa's baby" and "it" when referring to Lisa's baby because Lisa doesn't know whether her baby is male or female and isn't sure what name to give to her baby.

Other than "the baby", "her baby", "Lisa's baby" and "it" is there any way to refer to the baby with unknown gender and no name yet?


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## Drakevarg (Feb 5, 2016)

When I want to refer to someone in the third person in a way that treats their gender as inspecific or irrelevant (like say if it's referring to a random individual from a large group), I generally go with "they/them/their"-type pronouns.


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## Penpilot (Feb 5, 2016)

Wouldn't these humanoids have a specific name or pronoun for that stage of development?


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## Ireth (Feb 5, 2016)

I agree with Drakevarg. "They" is better for a person; "it" makes the person sound like an object.


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## Steerpike (Feb 5, 2016)

Ve, vis, and vir show up in genre stories as gender-neutral pronouns.


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## Ireth (Feb 5, 2016)

Steerpike said:


> Ve, vis, and vir show up in genre stories as gender-neutral pronouns.



Can't say I've seen those before. On the rare occasions I see made-up neutral pronouns, they're either ze/zir or xe/xir.


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## Queshire (Feb 5, 2016)

Honestly I've never been fond of the zes, xes, or ves. I get the point, but they're so jarring to read.


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## Steerpike (Feb 5, 2016)

Ireth said:


> Can't say I've seen those before. On the rare occasions I see made-up neutral pronouns, they're either ze/zir or xe/xir.



Greg Egan used ve,  vis,  vir in Diaspora.  Thought it worked well.  Didn't have a problem mentally adjusting to the use of them.  I've seen the others you mentioned as well.


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## Velka (Feb 5, 2016)

Perhaps the baby can have some kind of nickname based on it's demeanor? If it coos a lot, it could have the nickname Dove or something to the effect? What does Lisa refer to her baby as? Personally I would find it a bit jarring to read a mother who only calls her baby "it" or "they" or "baby". I have at least 20 nicknames for my dog, and he has a proper name.


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## Heliotrope (Feb 5, 2016)

I agree with pen pilot, if this gender neutral stage is a typical stage for this sort of humanoid, it would have a specific name, same as how we use infant, toddler, child, adolescent, teenager, young adult, etc. I would try to invent scientific sounding words for each stage of your human development.


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## A. E. Lowan (Feb 5, 2016)

It's also possible that a culture which has a gender neutral stage would have gender neutral names.  Things like Sawyer, Jordan, etc.


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## NerdyCavegirl (Feb 7, 2016)

Velka said:


> Perhaps the baby can have some kind of nickname based on it's demeanor? If it coos a lot, it could have the nickname Dove or something to the effect? What does Lisa refer to her baby as? Personally I would find it a bit jarring to read a mother who only calls her baby "it" or "they" or "baby". I have at least 20 nicknames for my dog, and he has a proper name.



Actually babies didn't used to be named until they were 5 in various times and places throughout earth's history. I find it kind of jarring too, especially the cultures who believed they didn't have souls until they were named, but apparently some people are fine with it.


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## Ireth (Feb 7, 2016)

NerdyCavegirl said:


> Actually babies didn't used to be named until they were 5 in various times and places throughout earth's history. I find it kind of jarring too, especially the cultures who believed they didn't have souls until they were named, but apparently some people are fine with it.



I think a lot of that has to do with infant mortality rates in a lot of times and places. Which makes me wonder if the OP has considered this; it could be an interesting cultural tidbit.


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