# Obvious or Ambiguous?



## Mindfire (Aug 25, 2012)

When it comes to things like gods and spirits, do you guys prefer to make their involvement and existence obvious or ambiguous?

Similarly, is your magic (if it exists) more flashy or subtle?


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## Griffin (Aug 25, 2012)

I prefer a more ambiguous approach. I make a point that my characters believe something. If a character is more zealous, then that shows in their mannerisms and dialogue and vice-versa with characters who believe in no one but themselves. I don't really go into great detail about the various beliefs since the point of my novel is not to condone or condemn any real world faiths.

I guess I treat my magic about the same. Some characters are "woo hoo, look at me! I'm doing magics!" while other characters use magic only when needed. 

I am so dangerously neutral.


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## Astner (Aug 25, 2012)

For spirits in the story? Definitely ambiguous. It takes away from the mood when someone is having a conversation with a ghost than just taking to a gravestone reassured that whomever's body lies beneath is listening without any tangible evidence.

Gods are a bit different, and it ultimately depends on the role of the gods. Are the gods physical and part of a pantheon, or are they abstract entities beyond measure and comprehension? It's also a question of the gods involvement in the story.


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## Feo Takahari (Aug 25, 2012)

The Well-Tempered Plot Device makes its point on the subject by changing just one word in _The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant_ from "Law" to another word.

_Covenant saw. The Staff of Plot. Destroyed. For the Staff of Plot had been formed by Berek Halfhand as a tool to serve and uphold the Plot. He had fashioned the Staff from a limb of the One Tree as a way to wield Earthpower in defence of the health of the Land, in support of the natural order of life. And because Earthpower was the strength of mystery and spirit, the Staff became the thing it served. It was the Plot; the Plot was incarnate in the Staff. The tool and its purpose were one. And the Staff had been destroyed. That loss had weakened the very fibre of the Plot. A crucial support was withdrawn, and the Plot faltered._

In other words, if you try to have your Fates be abstract and impersonal, but also have them be directly involved in the plot, they're bound to turn into extensions of the story. To have a pretense of not being mechanical, you need to either leave your Fates so abstract their intervention can't be seen, or make them so personal that they can be seen as characters in their own right. (From the sounds of it, Griffin does the former, and that's what I do as well. I think C.S. Lewis is a good example of an author who did the latter reasonably well, with his "Aslan" as both a Christ figure and an active character.)


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## squishybug87 (Aug 26, 2012)

In my story, religion plays a very important role because it's the reason why things are the way they are. My main character is a soldier and her country is involved in a 'holy war' of sorts, something they see as their religious duty. It's more Christian Crusades than Islamic jihad. 

I say it all depends on whether it enhances your story or not. Does it explain why things are the way they are? If so, it should take a more prominent (though not overpowering role). If you can write your story without mentioning religion and it doesn't change anything major, then maybe it should take a more subtle role. Do I make sense?


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## shangrila (Aug 26, 2012)

I'm in between, I suppose.

In my current world, the gods make behind the scene type moves. They appear to the reader several times and to one of the main characters (in disguise) a few times, but the fact that they're real, tangible beings are unknown to the world's inhabitants.

Magic is well known though. It's not "flashy" but I wouldn't call it subtle either.


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## Benjamin Clayborne (Aug 26, 2012)

In THE QUEEN OF MAGES in particular, deities and spirits are worshipped by various cultures, but they are never seen. Whether or not they "really" exist is immaterial to the story.

I don't object to writing a story in which supernatural entities play a direct part, I just haven't yet (mostly because I don't like the _deus ex machina_ tendencies of such things). If a deity is going to be involved in the story, it's going to be as a character (probably an antagonist).


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## Lorna (Aug 26, 2012)

In my WIP magicians learn magic from elementals. The elementals teach humans some of their lore but conceal the majority of their lives from humans. They have their own secret stories and rites. Ultimately humans are pawns in their game. But the full extent of their aims isn't revealed until late in the trilogy.


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## ShortHair (Aug 26, 2012)

Mindfire said:


> When it comes to things like gods and spirits, do you guys prefer to make their involvement and existence obvious or ambiguous?
> 
> Similarly, is your magic (if it exists) more flashy or subtle?



As often happens, my answer is "It depends." If there are gods in your universe, and if they have some stake in your setting, they will intervene as firmly as they can. It's usually a good idea to have some boundaries or limitations there, so your gods don't trample the world underfoot while they duke it out betwixt themselves.

If there is some power available to characters, and it's _not_ coming from divine intervention, you have an even more complicated explanation on your hands.

Speaking for myself, I prefer subtlety and finesse, so I avoid the Pillar of Fire sort of spell. On the other hand, if the situation calls for a pillar of fire, then by golly you'll get a pillar of fire.


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## Zero Angel (Aug 26, 2012)

Mindfire said:


> When it comes to things like gods and spirits, do you guys prefer to make their involvement and existence obvious or ambiguous?


Depending on the deity, most of my gods, goddesses, et al do not have an obvious role in every day life. Some definitely do (the Wanderer and Arcturus come to mind since they literally wander across the planet and cannot help but interfere in daily life when they do). 

Even those using priestly magick and similar are unable to prove the existence of their chosen religion because the mechanics behind their magicks are based on the power of their faith and expertise manipulating magick, not on any relative power level of the gods or the number of worshippers they have. 

This is also how people are able to hold back evil with holy symbols/etc even without training. It's all about faith and belief, not about the power of the god. 



Mindfire said:


> Similarly, is your magic (if it exists) more flashy or subtle?


Again, it depends on the magick. Each race of creatures (and frequently different monsters) have their own brand of magicks that are flashy or not depending on the race. 

For instance, humes use elemental magicks, which are pretty flashy in and of themselves (although there are subtle ways to use them also). Elves use force magicks. Ranines use an honour/dishonour system that empowers them. Aviadins use the power of ancient artifacts to charge their shamanistic magicks and dark experiments. Minotaurs view reality as a Maze and are able to change it to their liking. Dwarves have a natural antimagick that they can manifest and extend. Gnomes use empathic magicks. Faeries use a combination of the Mist and the Firmament. Galts use quantum mechanics and change probabilities to alter reality. Centaurs use psionics. Demons use Nether while Dragons use Aether--both one step removed from "pure magick". Gremlins steal electricity. The magicks of harpies are based on poison, while the magicks of the sochu are based on pain. Laorcs have animal totemic magicks and the orcs of Bershidai have blood magicks. The lumoi and noi use light and darkness magicks. 

...

Then there are the universal magicks: naming, witchcraft, alchemy, faith and more. As far as I remember, each type of magick can be used either way.

Although MY use of magicks in my books is obvious and not subtle at all if that is what you meant -_-


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## CupofJoe (Aug 27, 2012)

Showing my own prejudices I admit but most of my gods and spirits are kind of hands-off and definitely not all-powerful.
Their existence is obvious to those that believe in then [like the christian god is to some] but their effect is in the eye of the beholder.
I like the idea of light touch gods over the omniscient, omnipresent variety. [For me] Unless you are writing a story about gods then they seem to be overbearing and I can't get a line where they can affect events but don't, without them being quixotic.


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## mbartelsm (Aug 27, 2012)

Depends on the world. In my current world gods are an absolute fact, not believing in them would be like not believing stones exist philosophy and metaphysics set aside), some cultures such as elves live among the gods (who often take an animal form), others worship a patron god who protects them, and others try to kill them to gain their power (even tough that's quite difficult). There are also the Higher gods, the responsible of the creation of the universe, these gods are much more ambiguous, however, for the lesser gods they are a reality.


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