# Counter Proposal to the Indepenent Appraisal and Rating Service



## BWFoster78 (Jan 29, 2014)

I think that a lot of us agree that we are just in the beginning of the self publishing revolution and that there are a lot of services that could be provided that aren't in existance yet.  In another thread, The Dark One pointed out the need for authors to have a way to evaluate their work.  While I don't disagree with his proposal, I felt there were some significant barriers to overcome, and I felt that there is a more important need that could be addressed.

In recent posts, I've made a lot of critical comments about a lot of self publishing authors.  Now, let me say something positive: As a reader, I love quality self published novels.  I get a book that I enjoy just as much as anything put out by a traditionally published author, and I get it at a discount.  I also love the concept of paying the artist directly.  I'd much rather my money go to the author than some executive in New York.

As a reader, I want to find more good indie books.  Therefore, I propose the following service: A site devoted to connecting readers with books that are just as good as the traditionally published ones but at a lower price.  Instead of a service for authors, it's a service for readers.  

Where do I find those books?

There are already thousands of people out there searching and evaluating - book bloggers.  This site would search for book bloggers that have a good grasp on determining which indie books are of high quality.  And, to ensure that quality is maintained, we'd limit the number of books a blogger could recommend.  Perhaps something like 3 books initially and then 1 every, I don't know, month, quarter, year.  That way, the blogger is forced to consider only the best of the best gems that they've uncovered.

Why would a blogger participate?

It seems to me that most book bloggers are motivated by one or both of the following desires:
1. To uncover gems and point people to those gems.
2. To gain attention for their writing.

I think this site offers both.  We'd get more eyes on the recommendations and each recommended book on the site would link back to the reviewer and the reviews.

I have some ideas on how this could be monetized (not thinking anyone would become wealthy unless it succeeded way beyond the wildest of expectations, but I think it might could pay for itself), and I don't think there is a huge barrier to getting something like this started.  The biggest challenge as far as the ultimate success of the site would be the ability to spread the word about it.

What do you think?  Is this service valuable?  Is it worth pursuing?


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## Chilari (Jan 29, 2014)

I think this is a great idea - it addresses the problem in a manner which can be easily implemented, allowing the good books to be found and the bad books to be ignored, which will encourage authors to strive for quality as a fall-out effect.

I absolutely think it's worth pursuing.

I take it that only indie books could be recommended? However, how would you define "indie"? Would it be books only published directly by the author? Would it include small press books - which are often set up by indie authors and publish only one or two authors?


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## BWFoster78 (Jan 29, 2014)

> I take it that only indie books could be recommended? However, how would you define "indie"? Would it be books only published directly by the author? Would it include small press books - which are often set up by indie authors and publish only one or two authors?



I would like "indie" in the title of the site, but, as a practical matter, it's almost impossible to police.  Instead of advocating just authors who self publish, the goal would be to publicize authors who don't have a huge following and who sell their books at a discount from the $7.99 and up you see from the big names.


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## Philip Overby (Jan 29, 2014)

I also think this is a pretty good idea. So that's two people. I think something like this could provide exposure to book bloggers as well. I believe Pauline mentioned something like a Rotten Tomatoes for books. I think a site like this could also be valuable. You could have three books recommended by book bloggers and then have a section for reader reviews also maybe? Rotten Tomatoes I believe combines the reviews of pro reviewers and regular movie goers together for one score. 

Never mind that though if it's too much, I think your idea works fine on its own. You could probably get a Kickstarter set up for something like this and get a fair share of donations. Not sure what you could offer people for their donations, but it might be worth looking into. 

I think a service for readers is more valuable than a service for writers myself anyway. If a site like this picked up steam, then it could be a go-to place for readers looking for quality indie fiction. Since the book bloggers would be giving their recommendations, it wouldn't just be random shill reviews like Amazon sometimes has. Maybe links Amazon, Barnes and Nobles and other places might also be good so readers could easily pick up the recommended books. It would also encourage indie writers to put their best foot forward to get featured on the site.

I think once you figure out more details, this could be a pretty cool idea.


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## Steerpike (Jan 29, 2014)

I like the idea. I just wonder how many purchasers find and buy books based on blogging and other such activities. I know I don't do it, but maybe others do. Is it is sizable enough number to justify the time?


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## Graylorne (Jan 29, 2014)

Book bloggers are one of the most powerful forces in the book world. The large blogs can make or break your books. The question is, will they play?


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## PaulineMRoss (Jan 29, 2014)

Graylorne said:


> Book bloggers are one of the most powerful forces in the book world. The large blogs can make or break your books. The question is, will they play?



They're nothing like as powerful as they used to be, when there was very little alternative to the traditional type of newspaper review. They still get plenty of hits, but many of them are more concerned with giveaways and interviews and being controversial to pump up page hits than actual reviewing these days. Plus many of their followers are actually other bloggers and authors, rather than readers. 

On your second question: no, they won't play. Most of the very big blogs are totally publisher-facing, rather than reader-facing. They're keyed in to getting exclusives of the next hot release, they get deluged with the latest hardbacks for free, and they're amongst the most vocal of the indie-is-crap brigade. There are exceptions, but most won't touch anything self-published.


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## BWFoster78 (Jan 29, 2014)

> Never mind that though if it's too much, I think your idea works fine on its own. You could probably get a Kickstarter set up for something like this and get a fair share of donations. Not sure what you could offer people for their donations, but it might be worth looking into.



This is a really good idea.  Thanks!



> I think once you figure out more details, this could be a pretty cool idea.



Cool.  I'm glad that you like!


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## BWFoster78 (Jan 29, 2014)

Steerpike said:


> I like the idea. I just wonder how many purchasers find and buy books based on blogging and other such activities. I know I don't do it, but maybe others do. Is it is sizable enough number to justify the time?



This is a valid concern.

I base my optimism on two sources:

1. I actively search for books to read, especially good value indie novels.  I look at blogs and ask for recommendations on forums.  If I see a post of someone saying, "Hey, this book is good," I tend to at least consider it.

2. Goodreads seems to be enormously successful, and that site is built on the concept of connecting readers with books.  My proposed site would be similar but, I hope, have enough differences to distiguish it.  Whereas Goodreads focuses on recommending books based on what you're already rated, this site would:

a) focus on helping readers find "undiscovered" writers.  I think this feature conveys the advantage of price and the coolness factor of reading someone that no one else is.

b) eventually add a way for readers to find books based on their tastes that is completely different than the algorithms Goodreads and Amazon use.


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## BWFoster78 (Jan 29, 2014)

Graylorne and Pauline,

I don't desire having the "big" bloggers be a part of this.  I'm looking for the guy who has 12 followers and who reviews books because he's passionate about reading.

Obviously, a serious question in development of the site would be, "What criteria do you use to invite bloggers to join?"

Note that point as well; this site would not be open to submissions from just anyone.  The only bloggers who can submit are those who are invited to submit.  Authors will not be allowed to submit at all.


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## Steerpike (Jan 29, 2014)

BWFoster78 said:


> This is a valid concern.
> 
> I base my optimism on two sources:
> 
> ...



I think it sounds like a good idea, and it is certainly a site I'd be interested in checking out. Just because I don't make purchase decisions in this manner now doesn't mean I wouldn't do it if the right site came along.


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## BWFoster78 (Jan 29, 2014)

Steerpike said:


> I think it sounds like a good idea, and it is certainly a site I'd be interested in checking out. Just because I don't make purchase decisions in this manner now doesn't mean I wouldn't do it if the right site came along.



As with everything, it's all about the execution...


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## T.Allen.Smith (Jan 29, 2014)

I also think this is a pretty good idea. 

As someone who knows next to nothing about blogs, I have to ask a question. Are there enough decent, reader-only blogs out there to invite? It seems like the early success would be largely contingent on having high quality participants & getting enough of those to create a interest in the end-user (reader) community.


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## BWFoster78 (Jan 29, 2014)

> Are there enough decent, reader-only blogs out there to invite?



Without doing much searching at all, I have stumbled across many, many blogs that do book reviews.  When doing marketing research, I found lists that showed dozens of sites that accept self published fantasy novels.

I could be wroing, but I don't think finding a decent quantity of book bloggers would be an issue.  

Note also that the site is not necessarily limited to bloggers for input if finding enough turns into a problem.  There are huge numbers of people who do reviews for indie books on Amazon.  Sometimes these people list their contact information in their profiles.  That could be another source of recommendations.

EDIT: Just doing a bit of quick browsing, I don't think it would take long to find hundreds of book bloggers just for fantasy (presumably other genres would be similarly easy to find).  Obviously, not all of those accept indie, and trying to weed out which of those are "quality" is going to be difficult.


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## Chilari (Jan 29, 2014)

I can name two book bloggers off the top of my head who review indies: me and Pauline. I am certain a solid search and some polite enquiries will soon produce a handful of book bloggers for each genre willing to involve themselves in such a venture. Incentives beyond exposure wouldn't hurt though. How about for every recommendation made, the blogger is entered into a monthly prize draw to win an ebook, paid for by proceeds from whatever monetisation method you come up with? Not much, perhaps, but a welcome token of appreciation.


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## BWFoster78 (Jan 29, 2014)

> Incentives beyond exposure wouldn't hurt though. How about for every recommendation made, the blogger is entered into a monthly prize draw to win an ebook, paid for by proceeds from whatever monetisation method you come up with? Not much, perhaps, but a welcome token of appreciation.



This is a good suggestion.  Noted!


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## T.Allen.Smith (Jan 29, 2014)

Wasn't the idea for the bloggers to NOT be writers?


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## BWFoster78 (Jan 29, 2014)

T.Allen.Smith said:


> Wasn't the idea for the bloggers to NOT be writers?



I don't think that is a requirement.  As long as the reviewer has a long history of writing reviews and has the ability to identify books that are of a high quality, I'm not sure as to the relevance as to whether or not they're writers.  I do think you'd want at least some of the reviewers not to be in order to get some differing criteria.


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## PaulineMRoss (Jan 29, 2014)

BWFoster78 said:


> I don't desire having the "big" bloggers be a part of this.  I'm looking for the guy who has 12 followers and who reviews books because he's passionate about reading.



That is absolutely the right way to go. I've thought for a long time that a super-review-blog would be the ideal solution for readers looking for books. A review co-operative, if you like. There are vast numbers of small bloggers who could be part of that. I've already joined a couple of other bloggers to maintain a joint blog, which works very well.

Here's a suggestion. One of the difficulties I find in reviewing self-published books is that very often the author contacts me to request a review. This creates a direct contact between the author and reviewer. It's difficult to maintain an appropriate reviewing distance if you actually know the author (however limited the contact may be). The big blogs get their books for review from a publisher's marketing department or from somewhere like Netgalley, so there's no direct contact.

So how about allowing authors to send (free) ebooks to the review site, they're listed somewhere, and the reviewers then choose whatr they want to download. So no direct contact. It would take a bit of organisation, but it could be done.


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## BWFoster78 (Jan 29, 2014)

> So how about allowing authors to send (free) ebooks to the review site, they're listed somewhere, and the reviewers then choose whatr they want to download. So no direct contact. It would take a bit of organisation, but it could be done.



This is another excellent suggestion.  I'll add it to the list.


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## The Dark One (Jan 31, 2014)

This I think already exists...Great Minds Think Aloud.


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## BWFoster78 (Jan 31, 2014)

The Dark One said:


> This I think already exists...Great Minds Think Aloud.



I checked out the site, and it's not exactly what I had in mind.  Thanks for the info, though.


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