# Norse Mythology - Need Help with ReCreating Norse Gods



## DaimenNightWalker (Sep 19, 2012)

I'm writing a book series and I am doing research now of my story to start writing.

Norse Gods and Goddess I am going to use in my story, I need more details on their physical features and any personality traits that I could use.

Odin and Freya are the main ones I need currently. Later on I will need help with Greek Gods and Goddess. Athena, Artemis, Pan, Ares, Zeus and maybe a few others.

I'm also brain storming on how to make a Magical universe that revolves around the earth and stem in their own universes. Make it sound possible.


----------



## MystiqueRain (Sep 19, 2012)

I don't know much about Norse Mythology, but I'm a total geek for Greek Mythology so I'll be able to give you input on that when you need it 

As for the magical universe, the way you put it makes it seem a lot like the Yggdrasil Tree. I've seen this model be used in many other books, so you can always tweak it and make it unique to your story. The Yggdrasil Tree (if you haven't googled yet) is a tree of nine worlds, with parts of the tree being different worlds with different species, etc. And since you're looking at Norse mythology, it's a coincidence because the Yggdrasil Tree is from Norse mythology.


----------



## Legal Rose (Sep 19, 2012)

I used to be very into Norse Mythology in middle school, but I guess I've forgotten a good deal of it by now.  Here's some stuff you might already know, but I hope it helps:

If I remember correctly, almost all of our knowledge on Norse Mythology comes from two sources - Snorri Sturluson, a prolific medieval Icelandic writer who wrote during the Christian era, and an anonymous collection of poems called the Poetic Edda.  Naturally, those are ludicrously old texts written in Icelandic, so you don't want to read those.  But when you're doing your research it might be a good idea to make sure that those two things are used are sources.

And here's an old hint I've heard for journalists, when they need accurate information quickly - go to the library and look up educational books for children or adolescents.  Hopefully it'll be accurate, because it's in a library.  And those types of books often have a lot of information on broad topics (like gods and goddesses) given to you in an easy-to-understand format.


----------



## DaimenNightWalker (Sep 20, 2012)

@MystiqueRain - I will be needing a lot of Greek mythology help for my book. Norse mythology is going to be a small part compared to the Greek Myth in my current story plot.

@Legal Rose - I have someone refer me to 2 books to look for, so the library will be a great idea for me to save some money.


----------



## Devora (Sep 20, 2012)

What's your story about?


----------



## Shockley (Sep 20, 2012)

This is something I've really into, but I always like to suggest routes of research as opposed to just throwing out the information.

 In the 19th century there was a huge revival in interest in old Norse and ancient Greek culture. So we have a number of paintings, poems, plays, statues, etc. that depict the gods and their characteristics. I'd really suggest checking out that stuff and taking from that.


----------



## DaimenNightWalker (Sep 21, 2012)

The story line plot is partly developed and attempting to perfect it. But the Story line follows 2 MC's that are enforcer / defenders of the Astraverse. Trying to develop a believable story line for the characters I have created and currently perfecting them to match the culture they live in. My drafts in my signature are the characters I am using but the story has changed. Less fighting every chapter and more character development. 

Daimen and Chaos *currently* was created by Odin and live in Asgard. Hermes shows up asking for the All Father's help. I am not sure if I want to have them as part of a army or part of a group of defends. Which leads them to the Greek realm. 

Yes different dimensions or realm. Haven't figured out the best way to do it. I am trying to make it sounds possible to make people understand my images in my head make to what I am putting on paper. Each realm will be ruled by Mythical Gods and Goddess of different periods in time. Sumerian, Egyptian, Greek, Norse and more as the story line goes on. I will make references to other realms as I tell the story. I don't want to info dump. 

Looking to find people to brain storm with via chat here or by yahoo messenger or similar program. I am planning to make my story into a 3 part book series per plot point. This one revolves around the release of "The Wild Hint" (currently) I have notes story line notes leading into a new plot line that ties in with the story at the end and opens a new plot point for the next book in the series. 

I am wanting to do this right. I want to attract the attention of people with the accurate information of the culture in my books.


----------



## Anders Ã„mting (Sep 27, 2012)

The thing to remember about Odin is that even though he was worshiped as a war diety, he was actually mostly a trickster god, and sort of a sneaky bastard. The guy constantly used shapeshifting and disguises to mess with people, including the other Aesir, sometimes apparently just for fun. Loki once (drunkenly) called him out on being unmanly for relying on magic, and coming from Loki of all people, that says something. 

He also learned magic by sacrificing himself _to himself _and surviving, which is as awesome as it is genius.


----------



## StuartEWise (Oct 6, 2012)

There are a number of books covering norse mythology on Amazon for the Kindle that are free to download


----------



## DaimenNightWalker (Oct 12, 2012)

Personally, I prefer physical copies.


----------



## psychotick (Oct 16, 2012)

Hi,

Norse Gods - think blond warrior types, even the women. Odin was the king of the aesir, but not necessarily the best known fighter - that would of course be Thor. But in essence all of the gods were in a constant state of cold war waiting for the final battle, the end of the world or Ragnorak when the aesir and man would stand against the giants (ice fire etc) and the trolls. And battle would be a blood and guts type thing. From memory the final battle starts when Heimdall blows the horn, and then its swords and hammers.

There's quite a bit of it on the Wiki. I'd suggest starting there.

Cheers, Greg.


----------



## J.D. Hallowell (Oct 16, 2012)

I suggest using the Encyclopedia Mythica at Pantheon.org as a starting point for research.

I'm linking to the section on Norse mythology, but there is an extensive section on the Greeks, as well.

Encyclopedia Mythica: Norse mythology.


----------



## Devora (Oct 17, 2012)

psychotick said:


> Norse Gods - think blond warrior types, even the women.



Actually Thor was a Red-head in the legends. (I blame Marvel Comics.)



J.D. Hallowell said:


> I suggest using the Encyclopedia Mythica at Pantheon.org as a starting point for research.
> 
> I'm linking to the section on Norse mythology, but there is an extensive section on the Greeks, as well.
> 
> Encyclopedia Mythica: Norse mythology.



Personally, i would recommend finding copies of the Prose Edda and Poetic Edda. These books are basically how we even still have the Mythology even after the Christianization of Scandinavia nearly destroyed all trace of Viking Culture and Society.


----------



## psychotick (Oct 17, 2012)

Hi Chris,

Thor as a ginger? Didn't know that. He would stand out as an oddity in Scandinavia I would think.

Cheers, Greg.


----------



## Shockley (Oct 20, 2012)

I always think of D'aulaire's depictions:














 Based purely on the genetics of the Scandinavians, you'd probably be dealing with someone of above average height and a traditional northern European hair range (light brown to white-blond with red and black being common enough).


----------



## Clarence Matthews (Oct 22, 2012)

Wow, I really like those pictures.


----------



## Leif Notae (Oct 22, 2012)

As a registered Norseman (I have my Fellowship card in my wallet, thank you), I say this: The Norse gods have so many aspects and facets because it was a free form religion. My Thor is not as powerful as Tyr in a fight. My Odin is a little insane. Your Odin might have only one wolf at his feet instead of two and has no hair instead of a flowing white mane.

The best part about the religion is that it is up to interpretation. Find all the information you can, but do not feel like you are in lockstep with a form fitted description. Give the gods a touch of your character and you won't have any complaints from us.


----------



## Anders Ã„mting (Oct 27, 2012)

psychotick said:


> Norse Gods - think blond warrior types, even the women.



Like Chris said, Thor at least was redheaded.

Also, most of the asynjur weren't warriors, or at least weren't described as such. The vikings had some peculiar ideas about gender roles and while they weren't opposed to the idea of female warriors (what with the valkyries and all that) they mostly regarded women as excelling more at mysticism and cunning - mischievous at best, downright untrustworthy at worst.

Basically, men did the fighting and adventuring, women did the plotting and magic.



> Odin was the king of the aesir,



I think "chieftain" is a more accurate word - Asgard wasn't a kingdom, and the Aesir were more a tribe then a distinct society.



> but not necessarily the best known fighter - that would of course be Thor.



Debatable - Thor was definitely the physically strongest of the Aesir by quite a large marigin, and probably the most dangerous to face in combat, but I'm not sure he was really their best fighter, skillwise. 



> But in essence all of the gods were in a constant state of cold war waiting for the final battle, the end of the world or Ragnorak when the aesir and man would stand against the giants (ice fire etc) and the trolls. And battle would be a blood and guts type thing. From memory the final battle starts when Heimdall blows the horn, and then its swords and hammers.



A thing to remember, though, is that everyone knew how it was going to go down. There were prophesies about it, and one thing you can always bet on in Norse mythology it's that prophesies always come true.

See, the vikings were a _very _fatalistic people in general - they seriously believed that one can never change fate and that anything that is destined to happen will happen. Odin _knew _that Fenrir would kill him. Thor _knew_ that he and Jormungandr were destined to destroy each other. Frey_ knew _he couldn't stop Surtr from setting fire to the entire universe, because he had given his magical sword away earlier in exchange for the woman he loved. 

Basically, Norse mythology is inherantly tragic in structure - decisions made early on will eventually have catastrophic consequences, but once your course is set there is nothing you can do about it.



psychotick said:


> Thor as a ginger? Didn't know that. He would stand out as an oddity in Scandinavia I would think.



Eh, while it's true redheads are kinda rare, we're not _actually _all blonde and blue-eyed around here - I dare say there are probably more brunettes than blondes in modern Sweden. And given that the vikings had a reputation for being perfectly happy to mingle with basically any other ethnic group they encountered (when not trying to stab them and steal their stuff, anyway) I kinda doubt all of them looked the same.


----------



## Shockley (Oct 29, 2012)

Anders is making some valuable points that I want to expand on.

 1. Thor was the strongest of the Aesir and the go-to guy when it came to giant slaying, but they never really sit down and establish who the greatest warrior is. An argument could, of course, be made for Thor, but also for others:

 - Vidar seems like a particularly powerful individual, since his sole reason to exist (he isn't even capable of speaking) is to kill Fenris at Ragnarok. Not only does he kill Fenris (who has just killed Odin) he is described as, basically, kicking him to death. In the Prose Edda they refer to him as 'the Silent God, nearly as strong as Thor,' and it implies that when things get particularly bad, he's the one they rely on. Vidar, unlike most of the other warrior gods, survives Ragnarok and the burning of the world. 

 - Magni might also give Thor a good running. He seems to be stronger than Thor (After Thor kills Hrungnir, Thor is being crushed to death by the giant's foot. Magni, then three days old, strides up and removes the corpse, then laments the fact that he could have punched the giant to death. No one questions his ability to do that, which is somewhat telling since the Norse myths usually revolve around the gods demeaning and insulting one another). Likewise, Magni is also the son of Jarnsaxa by Thor - Jarnsaxa literally means 'Iron Sword,' with all kinds of implications (this would, though not through Thor, also make Magni a brother of Heimdall - Jarnsaxa produces him asexually). 

 - Odin might also be seen as the best fighter, but for an underhanded reason. Although he has no control over his final fate at Ragnarok, he is responsible for determining the outcomes of every other battle that occurs. 

 2. I have to side with the general historical consensus and say that the Norse Gods would have had a 'king' figurehead, since the Suiones tribe were recorded as having that institution as far back as the First Century CE, when the Romans first encountered them. The word king, of course, has a Proto-Germanic origin - Kungingaz, so it is more applicable concept to the early Swedes and Norse than say, the Romans (Where we use the term Kings to refer to the early rulers of Rome, but only for the sake of linguistic convenience. Quite a few of these other cultures use other, distinct terms despite their common linguistic heritage - rex, reks, rig, etc.). Or, to summarize, it's more applicable to say that the Norse gods had a king than the Greek gods had a king. 

 That said, the consensus is also that Odin took his place as chief god in the minds of Christians writing down the myths centuries later. The head god, during the time when people actually worshiped the Aesir/Vanir, was probably Tyr. 

 3. The only goddesses that could properly be described as warriors of any kind are Freyja and Thrud - Freyja as a war goddess (though this seems to be a distant, foreign role for her) and Thrud as one of the three children of Thor that are incredibly violent/powerful, and her dual-role as one of the Valkyrie. The rest of the goddesses are not warriors of any kind, though some of them seem to get wrapped up in the military imagery that surround gods like Freyr. 

 4. The communities would have had varying appearances. The fact that we have a Harald Fairhair means that he had hair light enough to be seen as distinct seems to back that up (as does the existence of someone like Halfdan the Black, since his name was related to his hair color as well). This points to the Norse having been of medium complexion, with dark and light being extremes.


----------



## Devora (Oct 30, 2012)

Shockley said:


> Anders is making some valuable points that I want to expand on.
> 
> 1. Thor was the strongest of the Aesir and the go-to guy when it came to giant slaying, but they never really sit down and establish who the greatest warrior is. An argument could, of course, be made for Thor,



I could argue Tyr since he was the god of war, but many of the Aesir and Vanir were formidable warriors.


----------



## Shockley (Oct 30, 2012)

Christopher Mahaney said:


> I could argue Tyr since he was the god of war, but many of the Aesir and Vanir were formidable warriors.



 I hear the 'Tyr is a god of war' thing all the time, but I've never come across any actual sources that point to him having that role. He was, fundamentally, a god of government (specifically over the administrative bodies like the Althing, though this is a role he shares with Forsetti) and justice, though he seemed to have some role in determining whether one received their fair share of recognition and glory. 

 The only idea, in my mind, that actually associates Tyr with war is the idea of the Romans that he was the God Mars. That said, I don't think that comes from him having the portfolio of war. Mars was not (as Ares was) a 'stupid' god - he was intelligent, shrewd, and above all else, was seen as the father of the Roman people and the preserver of internal peace (through readiness for war). In that sense, he does have a lot of similarities with Tyr. 

 As to who the proper war god is, that is a complex question. Odin certainly had some authority over matters of war, as did Freyr and Freyja (all of the Vanir, to some extent, seem to have some special relationship with war). Personal combat, as distinct from war, would have encouraged one to follow a god like Thor or Magni. If one was pursuing a war of vengeance or a personal vendetta, someone like Vidar or Vali would have been appealing. Battles on the sea would have brought one to Aegir or Njord (more likely Aegir, as he was the more violent).


----------



## Filk (Nov 22, 2012)

_The Masks of Odin_ is a great book; I forget who wrote it though. It's a work of comparative theology, but you also get a lot of primary source material as well to really give you a sense of the thing and not just someone's interpretation of it.

Also, I would suggest the primary sources already mentioned and I do believe there are more e.g. Njal's Saga etc. 

Norse mythology is truly fascinating and directly correlates to Teutonic or Germanic mythology as well. A great number of Vikings, upon being inundated with missionaries, simply added Jesus Christ to their pantheon as another god. Also, do not misjudge and assume all Vikings are violent barbarians; they were for the most part farmers and traders.


----------



## Shockley (Nov 24, 2012)

> Also, do not misjudge and assume all Vikings are violent barbarians; they were for the most part farmers and traders.



 Having focused all of my studies on the Germanic people, this is something I always like to point out: While a great majority of the Norse were traders and not raiders, the Norse also had no concept of the idea that raiding and trading were distinct activities. What they did was based entirely on what was the most convenient.


----------



## Kahle (Dec 4, 2012)

Its easier to understand the different roles of the gods if you look into the creation stories for both Norse and Greek. The Norse have a very distinct layout for their worlds, with the gods, giants, humans, and dead each inhabiting their own plane of existence-with the world tree connecting them all, and only the gods frequently crossing into different realms. Their view of the world was cyclic, with death leading to rebirth in a different form-warriors who died in battle went to Valhalla to await Ragnarok, the frost giant Ymr was broken apart to form the sun, moon, heavens, clouds, and earth, and the resurrection of Haldr and Baldr after Ragnarok along with two humans. Large-scale conflict, of course, held the center stage. Usually the Aesir fought the giants, but there was also a god on god war when the Aesir fought the Vanir-the lesser gods. This, along with the dwarves forging the tools of the gods, is a parallel between the Greek Titanomachy, Gigantomachy-titan and giant wars respectively-and the cyclops forging the weapons of the gods of Olympus.

In regards to the Greek version of the genesis of the world, with the birth of the titans from Chaos, there are numerous connections to the heavens and domains of the world. A titan governs each realm-Oranos as father sky, Gaia as mother earth, Hyperion driving the sun's chariot, and Chronos governing time. While the titans are conveyed as greater mysteries, the Olympians are modeled after humans in their faults and tempers. Different cultures made different connections to their gods-the Norse made them the epitome of their culture, the Greeks made their Olympians as eternal humans with power over teh elements, and the Egyptians the turning and perpetuity of the cosmos.

As with most mythology, remember that there is always a lesson or explanation for each story. These cultures had their gods instead of modern science to reveal the why and hows of the world around them.


----------



## Shockley (Dec 5, 2012)

A great post, Kahle, but I feel like I have an obligation to point some things out:



> Norse have a very distinct layout for their worlds, with the gods, giants, humans, and dead each inhabiting their own plane of existence-with the world tree connecting them all, and only the gods frequently crossing into different realms.



 This is, of course, open to interpretation, and it's probably accurate to say that the Norse had a hybrid view of these things. Midgard was certainly separate from Valhalla, but things get a little murkier when you look into where Jotunheim was supposed to be, where Alfheim was, etc. Just for example, it's very clear that the Norse though Jotnar and Alfar could interact with humans and the gods in equal measure, and there's at least one myth where a man ascended to Valhalla by crossing the rainbow bridge.

 It's obvious to some extent that the Norse thought Jotunheim was much closer than the other worlds, which is why there are so many regions named after Jotuns (for example, the Jotunheim mountains). This is correlated to the idea that we translate 'jotnar' into 'giant' for convenience - a more literal translation would look like 'a force of chaos' or 'a chaotic consuming force.' So any area that was wild or dangerous could conceivably by Jotunheim. It seems likely that they would have had a similar concept of Alfheim - a place of safer, but still uncivilized, wilds.

 So you have the broader view of these being different realms of existence, but another aspect where it might just be that country just out of reach. 



> Their view of the world was cyclic, with death leading to rebirth in a different form-warriors who died in battle went to Valhalla to await Ragnarok, the frost giant Ymr was broken apart to form the sun, moon, heavens, clouds, and earth, and the resurrection of Haldr and Baldr after Ragnarok along with two humans.



 Germanic Paganism was broken right at the moment when it entered the kind of evolution that allowed Judaism, Hinduism, etc. to survive to the modern day. So, interestingly enough, we have some very short strands of thought that pointed to a growing belief in physical reincarnation (within the family line) as well. This was not one soul being born into one body, but the collective soul of that family line manifesting in physical form.  So yes, reincarnation and cyclical thought were important. 



> Usually the Aesir fought the giants, but there was also a god on god war when the Aesir fought the Vanir-the lesser gods.



 The Vanir were not 'lesser' gods. They were simply 'different' gods. The myths point to the idea that the Norse believed there were multiple tribes of gods, one of which was their preferred Aesir and another of which was the Vanir. The introduction of Freyr and Freyja (and Freyr was by far the most popular god on the continent and second only to Thor in Iceland) takes on the mythic form of a marriage alliance between the Vanir. Interestingly enough, there is a Aes (Hoenir) who is sent to Vanaheim who just leaves Nordic myth at that point. Even more to the point, Njord is to return to the Vanir at the end of Ragnarok, so they viewed the Vanir as being mostly immune to the world (of the Norse, that is) ending.


----------

