# Elves as a dying people.



## Xenodeus Blade (May 16, 2012)

In my story, I'm potraying the Elves as both a divided people(high,wood,and dark) as well as a species that is slowly dying. Example, the High Elves, though they are the most magical and possess eternal youth, their attitude and suppose superiority has rendered them sterile and are unable to keep their bloodline and culture pure. The Wood Elves are unable to use magic(genetically incapable) they live in environments that possess very little resources, and are constantly under attacked by brigands. Dark Elves are marred due to their former alligence to the Dark Lord, they want to change, but are incapable due to prejudices with humans and other elves.

I was wondering if there is more I can do to deconstruct the "perfect" Elf stereotype or is this good.


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## Ankari (May 16, 2012)

These are not deconstructions at all.  The High Elven race that possess great magical powers and are arrogant is typical.  So is the dying (or dwindling) race thing.

Wood Elves have always been been earthy, less civilized and a step below High Elves.  

Dark Elves aligned to a Dark Lord....again, its a common association.  

A good example of deconstructing the Elves can be found in Dragon Age.  They are lowly being enslaved to humans.  

I am not saying any of your characterizations are bad.  I just want to point out that they are not unique.


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## Queshire (May 16, 2012)

I don't see how attitude would lead to the high elves being sterile, being sterile is a physical thing while attitude is a mental thing. Further, thinking themselves superior would probably lead to them purposefully keeping their bloodline and culture pure instead of the other way around. Of course, there's problems that arise from keeping your blood and culture pure, keeping your blood pure leads to inbreeding and inbreeding leads to a greater chance of genetic disorders, that in turn can lead to them becoming sterile. Keeping their culture pure could also result in them being unable to adjust to changing situations and leaving them vulnerable to being out competed by more adaptable species.

For the wood elves, limited resources doesn't neccesarily mean they'll die out, it'll just limit the numbers of them. Of course, small numbers make them more vulnerable to further changes.

I don't see any reasons for the Dark Elves to be dying out. Just because you're hated doesn't mean you'll die out, and that hatred of them might just push them to do everything they can to survive.


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## Xenodeus Blade (May 16, 2012)

But how can I make the elves into a dying species?


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## Ghost (May 16, 2012)

Elf plague? That might be interesting. Being pushed out of their ecological niche? I'm not sure what would make it difficult for them to compete or who they'd do it with. Maybe they rely on a certain food source that's threatened. Genocide, but I'm not sure you want to go that route. A lot of industrial nations have lower birth rates than others, maybe something similar could happen to your elves?


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## Queshire (May 16, 2012)

You're on the right track I think. The main thing that leads to any species dying out is change. More particularily a change that they can't adapt to. Figure out what changed resulting in the elves dying out and you're there. This change can be just about anything, from a lower birth rate resulting in their natural deaths having a bigger impact, to loss of habitat, to being out competed by a more agressive race.


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## shangrila (May 17, 2012)

Yeah, I don't think you're breaking any moulds here. Elves as a dying race are almost as much a part of the trope as pointy ears. Personally, I think it's usually a cop out for writers to nerf an overpowered race (Tolkien started it, but its been going on ever since), although that's not to say you've done it. That's just how I usually see it in stories.

High Elves, being eternal, don't seem to be under much threat of dying out. I mean, it sounds like their only problem is sterility (which, as Queshire pointed out, has nothing to do with their attitude, but he's already gone over it), so they should be fine for the time being, at least until they come up with a way to counter-act whatever went wrong.

The Wood Elves...honestly, I don't think their problems are realistic. Living in low resource areas would have always been a problem and effectively ended their race generations ago, while bandits aren't typically organized enough to be a serious threat (and even if they were, elves are better than humans, so they shouldn't be too much of a problem). Something you might want to think about, but what if the Wood Elves' forests are being steadily but cut down by humans who want the lumber (perhaps there's a rare kind of tree that grows in them that humans like?). This would bring them into conflict with a much more organised force than bandits and might also expose their lack of magical ability, assuming humans have mages.

The Dark Elves are the most intriguing to me but, again as Queshire said, being hated by the others isn't enough of a reason to have them die out. Honestly, I think it might be better if they're the only elves NOT dying out, so that humans kind of have to come to terms with them as the other elves fade away, especially if they need superpowered elf help in battle.

Finally, another example of a broken elf stereotype; the Witcher games (not sure about the books, since I haven't read them). In those 2, the elves are a downtrodden race that has caused half of them to turn to terrorism and rebellion in order to win themselves (and non-humans in general) a place to live without persecution.

Hope this helps


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## Xenodeus Blade (May 17, 2012)

How about this, for High Elves, they have eternal youth, not immortality. So that means that they have the potential of living forever, but can be killed by conventional means. Also, the reason they would be wiped out would be magic being outlawed. If someone is caught teaching, learning, or doing anything magical, they will be burned at the stake. High Elves, unwilling to abandoned their ancient ways, were slaughtered by the thousands, leaving a very, very small number alive. and after thousands of years of interbreeding, they have become sterile.

The Wood Elves homeland, which they believe is the place where the Gods left the world, is being torn down by an industrious empire. Their inability to use magic, lack of resources to create steel weapons, and inflexable gurrilla fighting tactics render them unable to adapt in this changing world.

The Dark Elves will most likely be the only sub-species of elves to survive. But it will take a very long time before they are treated as equals. Because they still practice magic, they will be shot on sight by humans, dwarves, and orcs.


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## Aravelle (May 17, 2012)

Do you really need all 3 breeds of elves? Frankly, those _are_ the elfen stereotypes. As much as I like what you have, I know it's not 10% original. [I'd suggest cannibalistic elves but I know someone else has done that, too.] What about a plague of sorts, a disease from say, forest fungi that can't be burned? 

Or perhaps the high elves aren't sterile but are so concerned with keeping their lines pure they've turned to incest and the offspring isn't coming out right?


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## Twilight Flyer (May 17, 2012)

The problem with elves is that elves are everywhere.  Just about everyone uses them.  The first rule of Elf Club is that no one talks about Elf Club...

er...

Seriously, it's a tough call.  Elves, Dwarves, and halfings are almost taboo anymore, but elves especially.  When I world-built for my upcoming fantasy novel, I used variations of humans and kept out the elves, dwarves, and halfings.  As a matter of fact, since my story has NORMAL (us) people in it, too, I have some of them making cracks about it. "Where's the elves?" "What's an elf?"

But if you're set on elves, I like the cannibalistic elves that Aravelle mentioned.  Now that's a pretty cool idea.  Point is, go after something truly unique & different - something that will set your elves apart.


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## Queshire (May 17, 2012)

or~~~~ take the cliche and twist it until it's new.

My Elves are masters of life magic, which is basically genetic engineering. They are stronger/faster/smarter because they make themselves that way. Instead of relying on technology they rely on magically created monsters. They used to have a caste system with each of the Elf types genetically engineered to do their job, however after a war with the dwarves resulted in their home realm being completely destroyed and their leadership caste getting killed to a man, the various castes ended up fighting with each other as each caste thought -they- were most suited to being the new alpha caste, resulting in the current various current Elvish tribes.

My dark elves were the commandos, spies, and sabotuers. They were used to working independently from other Elves and surviving in the tunnels and underground compounds similiar to the Dwarves.

My wild elves weren't that well known for coming up with new life magic monstrosities, but were the best at producing the monsters from genetic templates and caring for them.

My high elves aren't that impressive, they were the elves belonging to castes not quite high enough to get posted on the Elves' destroyed home realm. They are the buearacrats, accountants, archivests, and other paper pushers of the old elvish empire, but with the death of the leadership castes, they were technically the highest ranked elves.

There are other elves for other castes, from water elves, war elves, crafting elves, and so on.

Basically, I hit all the expectations of elves, but I change it enough so it's different.


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## Saigonnus (May 17, 2012)

I had a thought earlier after reading this post. It would interesting if perhaps it was the elves themselves that brought about their own destruction or began it and others (like humans) simply took advantage of the opportunity. Perhaps the "racial" division between the different types of elves became strained to the point of breaking and there was a civil war that killed off half the elves. Seeing them weakened, the human (always seeking a weakness in others) began flexing their political and economic muscle, followed by campaigns of defamation or propaganda against the elves.

Perhaps it even gets to the point that the elves are forced to reside in small groups (like indian reservations) and once diminished like that it makes them easy prey for Orcs or Goblins or whichever mischievous race wants to take advantage.


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## Leif GS Notae (May 18, 2012)

What I think everyone is missing here is the template of "elf" exists. When we say "elf", based off the "stereotypes" that exist, you already KNOW what an elf is. So you don't have to labor over explaining them to a reader. Even a casual one will know that it is the d*ck with the pointy ears.

What Tolkien did was to add a layer onto the template and make them his own. This is what you should do. I'm all down for sterile by thought (apparently no one has heard the terms "The energy flows where the mind goes" and "quit your stinkin' thinkin'" before), and perhaps a caste vow gets out of hand. It is a hyper acceleration of the Victorian movement. I get it.

The thing here is to make these template shine with your voice and your story. Being original gets you accolades from "artists", but when it comes to telling a story, you aren't going to do much. Have no fear that you are doing what is best for you, as long as it serves the purpose of the story.


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