# The Day of the Doctor



## Zero Angel (Nov 25, 2013)

Surprised there wasn't a 50th anniversary post for Doctor Who!

What was everyone's thoughts on the show? 

I'll avoid spoilers for this first post, but I expect there will be plenty of spoilers to come. 

My thoughts:

A great episode that is a fitting 50th anniversary. The Doctors worked well together and it was nice seeing the back-and-forth between the three. We got to see more of the Time War than ever before, which was nice, and (in my opinion) the best performance of Rose Tyler in the 2 years she was a companion + all the extra episodes she appeared in.

I will say that it still feels emotionally disconnected (has been for a while), and the one scene where there was a connection I had ruined by the rubbish BBC America pre-show. I seriously don't understand how they thought it would be a good idea to have spoilers in a pre-show, but whatever. ...jerkfaces.

I enjoyed Clara's contribution (she's usually good, best companion since Donna in my opinion) and the timey-wimey bits were fantastic as well. 

It was almost perfect. It could have been a lot better, seemingly easily, but I can't really complain about too much in the show.


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## Penpilot (Nov 25, 2013)

I thought it was a pretty good show. I had some expectations coming in with Hurt's Doctor. I thought he would be a darker figure in the story, like an anti-doctor that the other two would have to battle against. But once I realized that wasn't the direction they were going to take, I let go and just enjoyed the ride. 

It's far from flawless, but I don't care. Doctor Who is adventure and fun and that's what got delivered. I was very satisfied.


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## Black Dragon (Nov 25, 2013)

I really enjoyed it.  It was great seeing David Tennant back in the role, and it was especially awesome to see



Spoiler: Major surprises



Tom Baker, and Peter Capaldi's brief cameo



My only complaint is this:

The last time that we saw the Doctor, I could have sworn that he and Clara were trapped within the Doctor's time stream.  How did they get out?  Was this explained?


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## Zero Angel (Nov 25, 2013)

Black Dragon said:


> I really enjoyed it.  It was great seeing David Tennant back in the role, and it was especially awesome to see
> 
> My only complaint is this:
> 
> The last time that we saw the Doctor, I could have sworn that he and Clara were trapped within the Doctor's time stream.  How did they get out?  Was this explained?



This wasn't really explained, but it was implied that the Doctor was able to go in and get her out no problem. She wouldn't have been able to on her own, but it seemed to be trivial to him to do so, but he had to re-experience something that he locked away: the War Doctor. 



Spoiler: Re:Major surprises



That was especially awesome! Although the idea of "the Curator" is one we now have no clue about. Is it like a retirement for Doctors? Are his old regenerations spawning off somewhere else in space-time and pursuing relatively normal pursuits? Or was it just a way to incorporate an old friend? 

It was great to see Capaldi have a turn! I'm looking forward to his tenure.


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## Zero Angel (Nov 25, 2013)

Penpilot said:


> I thought it was a pretty good show. I had some expectations coming in with Hurt's Doctor. I thought he would be a darker figure in the story, like an anti-doctor that the other two would have to battle against. But once I realized that wasn't the direction they were going to take, I let go and just enjoyed the ride.
> 
> It's far from flawless, but I don't care. Doctor Who is adventure and fun and that's what got delivered. I was very satisfied.



I had thought that as well previously! It was almost immediately overturned when we get to see him. I couldn't get over how weary he sounded in the beginning. He's got a pretty iconic voice!


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## Zero Angel (Nov 25, 2013)

Has everyone seen the mini-episode prequels? I'll include both here:

The Last Day:






(Have to post twice, only allows one video per post)


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## Zero Angel (Nov 25, 2013)

Night of the Doctor:


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## Black Dragon (Nov 25, 2013)

I haven't seen either of these mini-episodes yet.  Thanks for posting them!


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## teacup (Nov 25, 2013)

I thought it was good, but could have been much better.
I was actually hoping for more out of Rose and John Hurt, and was disappointed that it wasn't actually Rose, and there wasn't really any reason for it to be her out of all the companions. Bad Wolf was mentioned and shown a bit, but didn't do anything but an attempt at looking cool for the show.
My favorite part was the split second of Capaldi. Can't wait for him.


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## Ophiucha (Nov 26, 2013)

It was okay, but definitely not what I'd wanted. I thought the meta episode, The Five(ish) Doctors Reboot, was much more in the spirit of the show as a whole. Celebrating the new show as well as the old one, plus it featured _way _more fantastic cameos that made me smile. Aside from 'the curator' and the glimpse of Capaldi (which I didn't really understand from the science fiction perspective, but I loved getting to see him all the same), there wasn't anything except a handful of nods and a shoehorned in role for Billie Piper to play. Some of the jokes were brilliant - everything with John Hurt, really, complaining about his younger regenerations, 'timey-whimey', etc.. Other things were just wince-worthy. "I don't want to go", haha, yes, because he said that once, how witty of you. I didn't care for the fact that Clara was the one to convince the Doctor/s not to destroy Gallifrey, either, since she... hasn't really earned that right, yet. This is the sort of decision that will have an impact on the rest of the show for seasons to come, and I would have preferred if a more meaningful companion - maybe Rose, since her actress was already there - had made that decision.

I couldn't stand the way Moffat wrote Elizabeth I's character, like a dreamy bint instead of the Virgin Queen of England, but I adored her actress. I also really loved that one character, the girl who wore the scarf? I can't remember her name, but I loved her and I loved that little interaction at the end with her and her zygone clone exchanging the inhaler. (The zygone plot was 'meh', the memory wipe made no sense, but I do love that they used a classic, rubber suit alien as the main villain of the episode.) I enjoyed the timey-wimey explanation for the sonic screwdriver's processing data over several centuries instantly, that was a good bit of science fiction. And... I'm not sure how I feel about the massive retcon, if only because 9 and 10 were so defined by the Time Wars that re-watching those episodes is going to fall kind of... flat. I mean, The Master's death just seems stupid, now...

As I said, I had fun watching it, there were some laughs, some great nods, some cool moments, but I'm not too fond of it as something that's meant to reflect on the past 50 years of the show. Despite not really liking the retcon, I am very excited to see how future episodes handle this twist and I think it will be a great way to see Capaldi into the show, with a new arc and a new outlook on his past (all the young/old jokes seem right knowing that 12 is going to be an older actor). I wanted more from this, I wish it hadn't done everything it did, but I think it opens doors for a good next Doctor, which I guess is rather important, too. Still, I really recommend The Five(ish) Doctors Reboot to anyone who wanted to see some more Old Who and more humour.


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## TrustMeImRudy (Nov 26, 2013)

I loved it. 
Cant find the spoilers tag so..._Spoilers_.

For people talking about Eccleston and Tennant's episodes being changed, remember they still believe in what they did. That doesn't change anything about the episodes because its still in their hearts. If anything its a bit more tragic, because its like Donna. They don't know how wrong they are, how wonderful they actually are. Because they forgot.


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## CupofJoe (Nov 26, 2013)

I watched it and fell asleep and that probably says a lot.
The next day I finished watching it. At least I was that engaged.
There seemed to be a lot of filler.


Spoiler:  cases of mistaken identity



I did like the Curator - Tom Baker and the possibility that all  these other doctors and all the other time lords get a retirement... it  makes a lot of sense and wonderful story telling  opportunities


I am looking forward to Peter Capaldi as the Doctor, but as Doctor Who is light entertainment [it started as children's entertainment] I have a fear that his darker acting ability will  be wasted/ not used.
I thought the docudrama "Adventures in Space and time" was far better that DotD and AiSaT was followed the first Doctor Who series on BBC4 that later evening... Wonderful!


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## Zero Angel (Nov 26, 2013)

Ophiucha said:


> It was okay, but definitely not what I'd wanted. I thought the meta episode, The Five(ish) Doctors Reboot, was much more in the spirit of the show as a whole. Celebrating the new show as well as the old one, plus it featured _way _more fantastic cameos that made me smile. Aside from 'the curator' and the glimpse of Capaldi (which I didn't really understand from the science fiction perspective, but I loved getting to see him all the same), there wasn't anything except a handful of nods and a shoehorned in role for Billie Piper to play. Some of the jokes were brilliant - everything with John Hurt, really, complaining about his younger regenerations, 'timey-whimey', etc.. Other things were just wince-worthy. "I don't want to go", haha, yes, because he said that once, how witty of you. I didn't care for the fact that Clara was the one to convince the Doctor/s not to destroy Gallifrey, either, since she... hasn't really earned that right, yet. This is the sort of decision that will have an impact on the rest of the show for seasons to come, and I would have preferred if a more meaningful companion - maybe Rose, since her actress was already there - had made that decision.
> 
> I couldn't stand the way Moffat wrote Elizabeth I's character, like a dreamy bint instead of the Virgin Queen of England, but I adored her actress. I also really loved that one character, the girl who wore the scarf? I can't remember her name, but I loved her and I loved that little interaction at the end with her and her zygone clone exchanging the inhaler. (The zygone plot was 'meh', the memory wipe made no sense, but I do love that they used a classic, rubber suit alien as the main villain of the episode.) I enjoyed the timey-wimey explanation for the sonic screwdriver's processing data over several centuries instantly, that was a good bit of science fiction. And... I'm not sure how I feel about the massive retcon, if only because 9 and 10 were so defined by the Time Wars that re-watching those episodes is going to fall kind of... flat. I mean, The Master's death just seems stupid, now...
> 
> As I said, I had fun watching it, there were some laughs, some great nods, some cool moments, but I'm not too fond of it as something that's meant to reflect on the past 50 years of the show. Despite not really liking the retcon, I am very excited to see how future episodes handle this twist and I think it will be a great way to see Capaldi into the show, with a new arc and a new outlook on his past (all the young/old jokes seem right knowing that 12 is going to be an older actor). I wanted more from this, I wish it hadn't done everything it did, but I think it opens doors for a good next Doctor, which I guess is rather important, too. Still, I really recommend The Five(ish) Doctors Reboot to anyone who wanted to see some more Old Who and more humour.



I'm surprised about the Clara hating, although my fiancee feels the same way. I think she's more than earned it with everything she's done already personally. The whole, being split across every Doctor's timeline makes her, if anything, more apt to be the one that causes the change than Rose, who really only has got a relationship with 10 and 11 (old 9 and 10). 

I also didn't really get the "dreamy bint" vibe. I thought she was just in love and when she wasn't actively being in love, she was a very strong and assertive character. As far as not understanding Capaldi showing up...he has a time machine. 

As far as a tribute to the old, I agree that it could fall flat in that regard, but I definitely feel that it moved the series forward more than any other. Also, all of the old anniversary episodes are universally panned, so it was nice to have one that was enjoyable. 



TrustMeImRudy said:


> I loved it.
> Cant find the spoilers tag so..._Spoilers_.
> 
> For people talking about Eccleston and Tennant's episodes being changed, remember they still believe in what they did. That doesn't change anything about the episodes because its still in their hearts. If anything its a bit more tragic, because its like Donna. They don't know how wrong they are, how wonderful they actually are. Because they forgot.


Nice point about Donna. You have to "go advanced" to get the spoilers tag, or you can just type the code in yourself. 



CupofJoe said:


> I watched it and fell asleep and that probably says a lot.
> The next day I finished watching it. At least I was that engaged.
> There seemed to be a lot of filler.
> 
> ...


I don't think you have too much to worry about him not getting to be dark. Don't forget about the Valeyard and the fact that he is approaching his final death (although obviously will find a way to overcome that...)


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## CupofJoe (Nov 26, 2013)

Zero Angel said:


> I don't think you have too much to worry about him not getting to be dark. Don't forget about the Valeyard and the fact that he is approaching his final death (although obviously will find a way to overcome that...)


From my childhood there were only supposed to be nine doctors and we are well passed that now... I think the Producers [and the BBC in general] are not going to kill off their greatest cash cow.


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## TrustMeImRudy (Nov 26, 2013)

Nah it was 12 regenerations that they get, not 9. They said that in one of the the old episodes, the Deadly Assassin I think it was called. Moffat said in an interview that its fact, but he also said that the Metacrisis Doctor [10.5, the one with Rose in Parallel Universe] counts as one, so Capaldi is the 14th not the 13th and that they will explore how he did this. I don't know how I feel about that if the Moff ain't lying >.<


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## Zero Angel (Nov 29, 2013)

TrustMeImRudy said:


> Nah it was 12 regenerations that they get, not 9. They said that in one of the the old episodes, the Deadly Assassin I think it was called. Moffat said in an interview that its fact, but he also said that the Metacrisis Doctor [10.5, the one with Rose in Parallel Universe] counts as one, so Capaldi is the 14th not the 13th and that they will explore how he did this. I don't know how I feel about that if the Moff ain't lying >.<



I didn't hear that about 10.5!, but that makes sense. I figured they were just going to say since he didn't complete the regeneration that it didn't count. 

Still, Capaldi is supposed to be his original, final incarnation, so I definitely think they will be dealing with the Valeyard and some of the other issues they've brought up recently (the Doctor going dark side, the Dream Lord, etc, etc, etc). 

Although, 



Spoiler: day of the doctor



resetting the end of the Time War means that he just won like infinity-gajillion karma points.


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## JCFarnham (Nov 29, 2013)

I have a very major worry coming out of Day of the Doctor and hearing what Moffat has said in his post-anniversary interviews.



Spoiler: day of the doctor specific stuff



Gallifrey is back. They removed the time war from time (in keeping with the whole bit where the John Sim Master pulled the Time Lord's back through to Earth so he could get his revenge) though everyone still remembers it as happening? 

This means that all that was previously impossible (since 2005), eg easily crossing universes, breaking the regeneration limit and so on, is now very very possible. All the Doctor has to do is find Gallifrey and convince the time lords, if there's any around, to give him some new lifes. That would be fine, awesome in fact, as I could see the next season revolving around Capaldi's Doctor's quest to find Gallifrey.



The major problem is this: 

Knowing Smith is now the 13th Doctor (thanks for that Moff...) means the limit has to be addressed and surpassed in the christmas special *alone* for Capaldi to take his place. 

This could potentially negate both a satisfying following season (the quest. Don't deny how great that would be.), as well as pack the episode too tightly with "things and stuff", and reduce the emotional impact of the whole shebang by playing the twist out far too quickly. Add to this the fact that the majority of the episode will certainly address every lose end *but* the regen into Peter Capaldi (with possible angels, cybermen, silence, the fall of silence, the list goes on), it's shaping up to be a bit of a cluster of nonsense.

Unfortunately I see no other way for the christmas episode to be written, unless the Doctor has _already_broken the limit without knowing (River Song's remaining energy...) or it was never an issue in the first place (horrible use of retconning), or they engineer yet any other awkward timey-wimey explanation with far less impact than could conceivably be.



One saving grace is that the 50th Anniversary episode proved that Moffat is in his element when given more time to play in than the regular 25 minutes. It may well be possible to reconcile all of this AND have a proper quest for Gallifrey in the future. Despite problems with his work, I still have faith in the Moff. I'm simply not going to listen to a damn word he has to say about anything because he's proven to lie and simply do whatever the hell he likes with established conventions regardless of what we _think_ will happen.

PS. Colin Baker's recent reaction to no old who doctors being included beside Tom Baker is pretty hilarious... Like George Lazenby complain he doesn't get to appear in something instead of Sean Connery. Put it this way, he "doesn't like" the fact no one else got a look in besides Tom.

PPS. I realised I never really addressed the Day of the Doctor itself. I loved it, think its one of the better, most enjoyable episodes of the Moffat's run, and arguably the best anniversary episode yet.


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## TrustMeImRudy (Nov 29, 2013)

Spoiler: Finding this Spoiler Tag took forever damnit.



[spoilers]Yeah everyone remembers it as the same, including the Doctor. So Nine and Ten [aka Ten and Eleven, but since they dont remember Hurt is the Doctor instead of the Killer, they don't count him] still feel the same way, and none of the episodes are changed from their original way of being. Only Eleven [aka Twelve] remembers, and only after the 50th. 

Also, anyone else realize all three Doctors go to episodes we watch after the 50th? Smith will obviously go on to the upcoming Christmas Special, Tennant will go on to the End of Time [Watch the beginning of this episode, one of the first things he says is "married Queen Elizabeth" plus they put it right after the 50th for a reason] and for Hurt its almost certainly Rose, the first episode of the revival, because Eccleston upon seeing a mirror sees his face for the first time. I love it, because Eccleston already has a hint of the childish glee Tennant and Smith had that Hurt constantly berated them for. Despite that he admired them, so in his next regeneration he unknowingly became a little more like them despite not remembering having met them. [/spoilers]



Anyways, favorite lines everyone? I have a ton, but among them is "Am I going through a mid-life crisis?"


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## Zero Angel (Dec 2, 2013)

JCFarnham said:


> I have a very major worry coming out of Day of the Doctor and hearing what Moffat has said in his post-anniversary interviews.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'd agree with you mostly except where are you getting 13 from? Smith went from #11 to #12 with John Hurt's interposition. 

Moffat definitely needs extra time to stretch out in.


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## buyjupiter (Dec 2, 2013)

JCFarnham said:


> The major problem is this:
> 
> Knowing Smith is now the 13th Doctor (thanks for that Moff...) means the limit has to be addressed and surpassed in the christmas special *alone* for Capaldi to take his place.
> 
> ...



My worry is that they'll do the same thing they did with River Song, and stretch it out beyond all reason, dropping ludicrous red herrings, when all along it was entirely the way he had it set up. I was super disappointed with that story line. Probably more so, because I was super geeking out to the behind the scenes stuff: interviews with Moffat, interviews with the cast and crew, behind the scenes how did they get that effect, etc.  

I would rather them quickly address the reason he exceeds the limit than to spend an entire season running around looking for explanations and still get "because I said so" from Moffat. I think with Doctor Who, more than any other media I've consumed, I've long ago learned that you just have to accept things and run with them rather than think about how that would actually work, and the *timey wimey* stuff works in that context. I'll accept hand waving much more often from Dr Who than I do from, say Star Trek.


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## JCFarnham (Dec 2, 2013)

In terms of regeneration energy used Moff said the whole journey's end thing and 10.5 counts towards the limit. Apparently. (I know, I know, like I said, one step too far really) Meaning whoever they all are; Smith's doctor needs to break it if he's to become Capaldi.

Also... Moffat loves the crimson fish. This could well be a stunt.


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## Zero Angel (Dec 3, 2013)

JCFarnham said:


> In terms of regeneration energy used Moff said the whole journey's end thing and 10.5 counts towards the limit. Apparently. (I know, I know, like I said, one step too far really) Meaning whoever they all are; Smith's doctor needs to break it if he's to become Capaldi.
> 
> Also... Moffat loves the crimson fish. This could well be a stunt.



Thanks. I had heard that earlier also but put it out of my memory BECAUSE IT'S LAME. 

...although makes sense. 

>_< AHHH DOCTOR WHO WHY?!?!


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