# Perspectives You'd Like To See More Of?



## Creed (May 8, 2016)

Hey everyone,

What are some character types/backgrounds/perspectives you'd like to see more of in fantasy? Or what are your favourite character perspectives to read?

This could be occupation, race or ethnicity, dis/ability, social standing, or gender. It could be something like a personality trait or altered morality. Maybe this could serve as inspiration for some Scribes to start a new story with a new character, or make an existing cast more varied.


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## Sheilawisz (May 8, 2016)

Hello Creed.

I would like to see more female perspective in Fantasy, particularly in leading roles. I also think that seeing more Magical perspective, like what everything looks and feels like from the point of view of highly powerful magical characters, would be interesting and even intriguing in a story.

Another interesting perspective would be that of a colorblind character, which I am going to be exploring in a story very soon.


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## FifthView (May 8, 2016)

I find this question difficult to answer.

Lately I've been thinking of the way that most characters in fantasy have something special about them.  They are well-connected or nobility/royalty themselves; they are especially talented, fighters or magical; they are the cursed or the prophesied; they have peculiar outlooks, odd obsessions, and so forth.  Even if the characters begin as ordinary, they become embroiled in extraordinary events and might actually end up one of the aforementioned types.  The same goes for most of the characters we see in movies.  So I've been thinking:  Why not have an utterly average Joe or Jane?  Someone who begins a story as an unremarkable person and is never transformed into a remarkable person doing remarkable things.

But of course, people see movies and read books because they want to experience what they normally never would themselves, and they want to see characters who are extraordinary in some way.  How difficult would it be to create an interesting character who is utterly ordinary and never becomes anything other than ordinary?  Well, perhaps my musing is in vain.  Plus, it could be said that everyone who is alive really is remarkable, even if they aren't named Obama or Kardashian or GRRM...and a good story would always find the distinction in any given character.

Now to answer the question a little more to the point:

I am extremely old-fashioned and love the "young orphan becomes hero" type of story, no matter how cliche that has become.

Otherwise, I'd like to see characters who are more competent, more confident and assured, less troubled by doubts, fears, irrational distaste or anger–less shaped by myopic worldviews and habits of thought and less likely to be sent into a tizzy over the littlest things happening around them (or even big things happening around them.)


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## Demesnedenoir (May 8, 2016)

I would say... nothing in particular. So long as the characters don't whine and throw hissy fits... woe is me, I'm so doomed, like you know, doomed.


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## Tom (May 8, 2016)

I would like to see more queer perspectives in fantasy. Definitely more protagonists with nontraditional gender identities, such as genderfluid, agender, and nonbinary. Maybe some asexual protagonists?

It would also be cool to see more neurodivergent protagonists, especially protags with mood disorders. My family has a history of mood disorders, bipolar disorder especially, and I really wish that growing up, me and my cousins had had more positive representation of people living with what we and our families were dealing with. Positive portrayals of characters with schizophrenia would be nice too.

I'd also like to see protagonists who have a talent or skill for something _not_ important to the plot. I don't know, it just makes them more human to me. I want to be able to read about a protagonist who paints or something, roll my eyes a little and say "Of COURSE painting will come up later", and be pleasantly surprised when it doesn't. Maybe it sounds a little odd, but I want protagonists to have hobbies and interests just for the sake of them. Maybe they paint when they're depressed. Or play music when they can't think their way around a difficult situation. Et cetera. I think it would be interesting to see that kind of characterization.


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## ThinkerX (May 8, 2016)

> I would like to see more female perspective in Fantasy, particularly in leading roles. I also think that seeing more Magical perspective, like what everything looks and feels like from the point of view of highly powerful magical characters, would be interesting and even intriguing in a story.



The MC in my 'Empire' series of novellas is female and middle class.  Though not a magician (or a warrior, or a bard, or a rogue) she is touched by magic of the highest and darkest sort.  Plus, one of her servants is a wizard, though not an especially powerful one.



> Lately I've been thinking of the way that most characters in fantasy have something special about them. They are well-connected or nobility/royalty themselves; they are especially talented, fighters or magical; they are the cursed or the prophesied; they have peculiar outlooks, odd obsessions, and so forth. Even if the characters begin as ordinary, they become embroiled in extraordinary events and might actually end up one of the aforementioned types. The same goes for most of the characters we see in movies. So I've been thinking: Why not have an utterly average Joe or Jane? Someone who begins a story as an unremarkable person and is never transformed into a remarkable person doing remarkable things.



I noted this as well, and strive to keep most of my characters 'normal,' or at least not 'heroes of the ages,' types.  Still, well,

Titus Maximus, MC of 'Labyrinth' is a scion of the second most powerful family in the Empire.  His sidekick Casein is a bottom level aristocrat and superb warrior, and his other companion, the middle class Doctor Isabella Menendez is a powerful magician.  That bothered me a bit.

With 'Empire,' I went with middle class Tia Samos, her knightly protector and noble bastard Sir Peter, her oafish peasant carriage driver and petty magician Kyle, and her gypsy maidservant/bard Rebecca. Tia's initial mission, while of import to her family, is nothing earthshattering, or even that unusual.  But they still meet powerful aristocrats - including the emperor - and become entangled with extremely powerful magical creatures.

Closest I came to 'keeping it common' was with the Toki/Hock-Nar series of shorts.  Toki is a runaway apprentice mage and petty thief, while Hock-Nar is an outcast hobgoblin.  But, even so, Toki eventually becomes a respected master wizard, and Hock-Nar has a formidable reputation as a warrior.


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## Heliotrope (May 8, 2016)

Hemmingway said "try to populate your stories with people, not characters". 

I do sort of think that fantasy does seem to have more characters than people, but I wonder if it's the nature of the genre? Like, characters seem to be categorized into: noble, bard, Mage, wizard, witch, sorceress, bar wench, etc... 

How about a person who is a bard? This is something else entirely. Though it is much harder to do.


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## ThinkerX (May 8, 2016)

Heliotrope said:


> Hemmingway said "try to populate your stories with people, not characters".
> 
> I do sort of think that fantasy does seem to have more characters than people, but I wonder if it's the nature of the genre? Like, characters seem to be categorized into: noble, bard, Mage, wizard, witch, sorceress, bar wench, etc...
> 
> How about a person who is a bard? This is something else entirely. Though it is much harder to do.



In my case, its a legacy of my long ago gaming days.  Though, anymore, its more convenient label than ought else.  Titus is a pretty fair warrior in his own right, but that's far from all he is.  Tia doesn't really fit into any standard character class.   Sir Peter is a warrior striving to be something else.  Kyle, despite his immense strength and magical proficiency, see's himself as a working man.   As to 'a person who is a bard,' that would be Octavos, from 'Labyrinth: Seed,' though he doesn't figure that out for most of the book.


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## Demesnedenoir (May 8, 2016)

A fine sentiment from Hemingway, but really... it gets highly philosophical, so much so that the answer to your question about fantasy becomes: Yes, no, maybe, Splunge! Is it any different really than even historical fiction? Characters become archetypes, or do people fit into archetypes? OH higgly piggly.



Heliotrope said:


> Hemmingway said "try to populate your stories with people, not characters".
> 
> I do sort of think that fantasy does seem to have more characters than people, but I wonder if it's the nature of the genre? Like, characters seem to be categorized into: noble, bard, Mage, wizard, witch, sorceress, bar wench, etc...
> 
> How about a person who is a bard? This is something else entirely. Though it is much harder to do.


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## Heliotrope (May 8, 2016)

Meh, I just agree with FV. I'm tired of seeing the same archetypes. Everyone is brooding. Everyone is dark. I'm so tired of dark. Even in movies, "lets make Superman dark! That will be so cool." Nope not cool (for me anyway). I'm tired of that darker is better tortured soul character. I think we need to start looking at real people and giving fantasy people with real people problems.


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## ThinkerX (May 9, 2016)

Heliotrope said:


> Meh, I just agree with FV. I'm tired of seeing the same archetypes. Everyone is brooding. Everyone is dark. I'm so tired of dark. Even in movies, "lets make Superman dark! That will be so cool." Nope not cool (for me anyway). I'm tired of that darker is better tortured soul character. I think we need to start looking at real people and giving fantasy people with real people problems.



Tia again, from 'Empire.'  For the first three novellas, one of her chief goals is to latch onto a man of aristocratic birth - because that would make her and her family defacto aristocrats, with attendant privileges.  She does encounter some very dark creatures and magic, and attempts to take appropriate precautions, but that's not her major concern.  In the fourth novella, which I'm writing now, she spends much of her time learning basic domestic skills (previously, she had servants for that sort of thing.)


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## Svrtnsse (May 9, 2016)

FifthView said:


> So I've been thinking:  Why not have an utterly average Joe or Jane?  Someone who begins a story as an unremarkable person and is never transformed into a remarkable person doing remarkable things.



I tried to do this in my novel (still haven't started on the second draft).

The main character is Enar. He works as an archivist with the local police and his mother just passed away recently. To get himself back on track and to get a little bit of a break before trying to start his new life he decides to go on a vacation. 
The story begins as he arrives at the place he's visiting and it ends when he goes home again. 

The main storyline is about how he meets a woman who's also there on vacation and how he falls for her. They climb a tree together, swim in a lake, and ride a horse and cart. 
There is also a very big dog that's a bit scary, and one evening Enar gets really drunk and is very hung over the day after.

It's an everyday story about an average guy doing things that are special to him, but which really don't matter at all in the bigger scheme of things.

However, it's still a fantasy story in that it takes place in a fantasy setting. Enar is of the anfylk race (hobbit inspired). There's a bit of magic and witchcraft here and there, and there's definitely something funky with the trees.

---

Now, the question is: is this something I'd like to see more of, or that I'd read more of? Perhaps.

I greatly enjoyed writing the story, but before I started it I'm not sure I'd have picked up a story like that. It doesn't quite fit with my impression of the kind of stories I enjoy. I always viewed myself as liking big majestic epics, or tough as nails urban fantasy - not slice of life romance.

I hope to have the novel finished by the end of the year, and we'll see what happens after that.


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## Peat (May 9, 2016)

Characters without great combat or magical prowess. I enjoy reading about those sort of characters as much as anyone, but I do feel fantasy is a poorer genre for the lack of main characters who aren't of those persuasion.


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## FifthView (May 9, 2016)

@Svrtnsse:  That's very interesting.

The idea of using an ordinary person actually came to me, as a kind of puzzle, about half a year ago when I began to think of how movies usually focus on extraordinary individuals.  It's a philosophical conundrum for me.  All these superhero movies, Star Wars and Star Trek movies, Jason Bourne and James Bond movies, the Twilight movies etc., had me picturing the Average Joes and Average Janes going to see them (myself included), and made me wonder what that says about us, that we don't see the marvel that is our own lives, or don't appreciate the marvel in everyday life.

But I, also, enjoy that type of movie, and I'm a huge fan of the fantasy genre and have greatly enjoyed the extraordinary characters and situations in fantasy.

So it's not so much that I'd want to see "more" average characters.  I've just been curious about the potential.  The closest half-formed idea I've had for trying to make it work would be the use of an Observer type of POV character, who is utterly ordinary but happens to be witness to some extraordinary characters and events.


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## Lea (May 9, 2016)

FifthView said:


> Why not have an utterly average Joe or Jane?


 I always wanted to do this. Most fantasies focus on the hero, and I've toyed with the idea of writing a story where the main character is in the midst of a great crisis but in no way involved. They just sit in the homes, complaining about how much the hero is messing up, but do nothing to actually help him. May be boring, but that's why I only toyed with the idea and have yet to commit. 



Tom Nimenai said:


> Maybe they paint when they're depressed. Or play music when they can't think their way around a difficult situation. Et cetera. I think it would be interesting to see that kind of characterization.


My main character cleans when she's upset. Does that count?


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## Svrtnsse (May 9, 2016)

FifthView said:


> So it's not so much that I'd want to see "more" average characters.  I've just been curious about the potential.  The closest half-formed idea I've had for trying to make it work would be the use of an Observer type of POV character, who is utterly ordinary but happens to be witness to some extraordinary characters and events.



One thing that I think is important is that it allows you to explore the world in a different way. You can see it through the eyes of the regular people instead of the exceptional ones. 
I think this can be helpful in making the world and the events seem more real to the reader. This in turn helps create a greater sense of wonder when something that isn't part of the real world shows up in the story.


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## Svrtnsse (May 9, 2016)

Lea said:


> They just sit in the homes, complaining about how much the hero is messing up, but do nothing to actually help him. May be boring, but that's why I only toyed with the idea and have yet to commit.



Do it! 
Do you have any idea what a nuisance it is to have to go out and pick up some milk for the coffee when there's a dragon rampaging through the city and all the roads are blocked off?


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## Sheilawisz (May 9, 2016)

Hello everyone.

There is another perspective that I particularly like, and I think that it should be seen in Fantasy more often. After having featured it myself in two of my stories, I decided that I really like it and I want to use it again sometime in the future when the moment comes:

The Afterlife Perspective!

This is the perspective of a character that just dies, sometimes at the middle of the story or even at the start, and then the narrative continues because the character in question has transformed into a ghost or has otherwise been sent to some kind of Afterlife realm. This does not mean that all contact is broken with those alive, but it certainly takes a different angle.

I hope this idea can inspire somebody out there =)


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## Lea (May 9, 2016)

Sheilawisz said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> There is another perspective that I particularly like, and I think that it should be seen in Fantasy more often. After having featured it myself in two of my stories, I decided that I really like it and I want to use it again sometime in the future when the moment comes:
> 
> ...



I actually have a WIP featuring this idea.  It's quite fun and challenging.


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## ThinkerX (May 9, 2016)

Sheilawisz said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> There is another perspective that I particularly like, and I think that it should be seen in Fantasy more often. After having featured it myself in two of my stories, I decided that I really like it and I want to use it again sometime in the future when the moment comes:
> 
> ...



One of my novelette projects this year is based on this.  For me, it'll be a dang tough one to write.


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## Tom (May 9, 2016)

For one of my short projects I'm trying to write from the perspective of a dragon turned into a human. It's been...interesting.


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## Lea (May 9, 2016)

In a project I'm working on, I follow a young girl who grew up in a tribe. They hunt and grow their own food, use bones for tools, and skins for tents... Then she finds out they've been part of a scientific experiment for years. It's been quite challenging describing glass, metal, and electronics from the perspective of someone who's never seen them before.


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## Tom (May 9, 2016)

That sounds really cool! I have a sci-fi project about a scientific experiment to see if AI can achieve humanlike sentience. The perspective character is the subject of the experiment, a medic android that's been modified to learn and adapt like a human. They eventually become human-passing and join a mission to retake earth from alien colonizers. It's probably the most difficult POV I've ever attempted, and I love writing it.


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## Creed (May 10, 2016)

I have a natural inclination to mages, as long as they use their abilities with style and intellect. It's also crucial for me that mages think like people capable of bending the world to their will, not like every other character in the book.

My favourite character I've read in a long time is an historian, teacher, philosopher, and a sorcerer in a world where magic is automatic heresy and damnation. He's clever but arrogant, learned but blind in his own ways, and he's always thinking and doubting himself. His age ranges well over his 50s, and he begins a little portly and he's not exactly fit for adventure. I think the fact that he's not within the idealized hero model makes him so interesting, and I'd like to read more people like that. He's also pretty self-serving at times.

I'd also like to see more characters with Blue and Orange Morality, which I've been working with for a long time and I find it both fascinating to mould and difficult to write. I've seen it used lazily for some villains but I'd like to see this completely novel worldview in depth with characters we can root for and be excited to follow.


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## Scribe Lord (May 10, 2016)

Without giving this question much thought here's my two cents.

Lately I've been struggling to write about someone who is immortal. Now obviously there is no true way of knowing whether I've gotten it right or not, but that's the beauty of Fantasy. We get to experiment with characters who have been exposed to things that we can hardly imagine. I want to read more about how all these things really affect the psychology of someone. An immortal human who can summon adorable puppies out of thin air, and lives in a land where dragons go on daily rampages across the countryside is going to have a completely mindset as opposed to you or me. I think... Right?


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## FifthView (May 10, 2016)

Lea said:


> In a project I'm working on, I follow a young girl who grew up in a tribe. They hunt and grow their own food, use bones for tools, and skins for tents... Then she finds out they've been part of a scientific experiment for years. It's been quite challenging describing glass, metal, and electronics from the perspective of someone who's never seen them before.



I have a project with a similar problem.  Originally:  My MC is from a race that lives entirely underground, never had contact with humanity, but the story will involve his leaving his people and being trapped in the world of humans.  So, how do I describe trees, the sun & sky, weather and so forth?  What about the normal concepts of time like days, years, months–and related things like sleeping (nighttime, morning)? And what do I do about the fact that he doesn't know the human language and they don't know his?  I had to revise my original plan a little bit, so that his race doesn't live _entirely_ underground but mostly underground, with some access to a secluded valley up above.  I think I have a workaround for the language problem.   All-in-all though, especially when I consider the craziness of having an entire race of people living underground (darkness, food sources large enough for a large population), I've thought more than once that I'm "making it worse" for myself as writer when I should be focusing on making things even worse for my MC.


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## Chessie (May 11, 2016)

This isn't so much a perspective rather than a preference for books that aren't tomes. I know that thick books _are_ the fantasy genre, but it would be nice if there was more variety of shorter works like novellas and novelettes. I really enjoy short fiction and fantasy is my favorite, but it really stinks that all of the fantasy books on my TBR list are like 10 books in one. So that's one thing I'd like to see more of but it's totally wishful thinking.


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## glutton (May 11, 2016)

Chesterama said:


> This isn't so much a perspective rather than a preference for books that aren't tomes. I know that thick books _are_ the fantasy genre, but it would be nice if there was more variety of shorter works like novellas and novelettes. I really enjoy short fiction and fantasy is my favorite, but it really stinks that all of the fantasy books on my TBR list are like 10 books in one. So that's one thing I'd like to see more of but it's totally wishful thinking.



My 'novels' tend to top out at around 70,000 words these days.

Re: the OP, powerful female warrior who fights mainly in melee and doesn't have something like magic or not being human to explain her physical abilities, she's just a beast XD


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## Lea (May 11, 2016)

glutton said:


> My 'novels' tend to top out at around 70,000 words these days.
> 
> Re: the OP, powerful female warrior who fights mainly in melee and doesn't have something like magic or not being human to explain her physical abilities, she's just a beast XD



I got one of those!  Almost two, except one uses magic too...


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## glutton (May 11, 2016)

Lea said:


> I got one of those!  Almost two, except one uses magic too...



Some of mine use magic but aren't dependent on magic for their physical abilities eg. beastly warrior who learns some magic rather than mage who uses magic to become a strong fighter.


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## Steerpike (May 11, 2016)

Tom Nimenai said:


> For one of my short projects I'm trying to write from the perspective of a dragon turned into a human. It's been...interesting.



That is certainly interesting. One of my characters is a human who was transformed into a dragon for a few hundred years and is now human again. The centuries as a dragon skewed her perspective on what good odds in combat look like


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## We Rise Above (May 12, 2016)

I admire anybody who can write from the perspective of somebody or something non-human. After all, it can be hard enough writing from the perspective of somebody younger/older than you, or of a different sex. Kudos to those stepping inside a dragon's head.


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## Deleted member 4265 (May 15, 2016)

Personally I'd like to see more old people who aren't either wise old men/wizards or aging warriors. I'd love some regular old people going off on adventures. I also love priests and deeply religious people in stories that are not necessarily about religion and on a somewhat related note, people who believe their current reality isn't real or that everything exists to tempt them away from their goals.

I've also always been fascinated by the perspective of Death and grim reapers. I'd love more books about him that aren't romantic love stories (friend love would be a welcome change though)  or urban fantasy, you know with death being basically the guy next store, trying to fit in and all that.


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## Nomadica (May 15, 2016)

I'd like to see more anti heros and people who are walking that line between good and evil. Perhaps a villan who has a conscience but is uncomfortable with these unsensible feelings that get in the way of his own needs. Or a good guy that strugles with the dark side.


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## Miskatonic (May 15, 2016)

Nomadica said:


> I'd like to see more anti heros and people who are walking that line between good and evil. Perhaps a villan who has a conscience but is uncomfortable with these unsensible feelings that get in the way of his own needs. Or a good guy that strugles with the dark side.



I'm kind of walking a tightrope when it comes to my MC and what he does. I definitely want the reader to feel conflicted at times at whether or not this guy really is the "good guy".


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## skip.knox (May 15, 2016)

>What are some character types/backgrounds/perspectives you'd like to see more of in fantasy? 

The kind I write. Seriously, one of the motivations behind by writing is to write the sort of story I rarely find but wish I did. I believe this is a fairly common writerly motivation.


>Or what are your favourite character perspectives to read?

Not really an "or" here; it's rather a different question. I'm not sure I have a favorite other than the one that falls under the heading of "Well Written". 

But one that intrigues me is telling the story of a great, powerful character-or at least one caught up by great, powerful forces--from the perspective of a friend or assistant. It puts us in the halls of the mighty, but shows them from the perspective of a mouse in the corner.

This thread already reiterates a theme I've seen many times. When someone asks what's your favorite, or what do you want to see more or less of, the range of answers is wide. 

That's a comfort to me. It means no matter what sort of story you are writing, there's an audience for you. So, in the immortal words of Niemand: don't sweat it, just go get it.


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## Xitra_Blud (May 20, 2016)

I don't have a favorite. I just like good stories with interesting, well written characters.


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