# Feasible equipment



## Alex97 (Apr 3, 2013)

Hi folks

At some point during my current WIP the protagonist joins an organisation called the Avorteri (more commonly known as the Grey Guard).  They're basically an elite group of soldiers that serve various purposes although I won't get into that.

However, I was wondering how to equip them as I want them to stand out from units in regular armies.  At the moment the plan is that they are heavily armored (the best armor available with a special metal that is light and strong), fight with long swords/hand and a half swords (a few choose hammers axes etc). They also all carry an aspis type shield and a shorter sword.  Sometimes spears and long range weapons are taken as well.  As an elite, they choose their kit according to their situation, but this is their basic battle form.  They can be deployed on horseback or on foot.

With all that considered, I have a few questions:

1) Would it be possible to wield a long sword in conjunction with a large round shield (the shield being strapped to the left hand in two places)?  My thoughts would have been no since it would be awkward to swing.

2) How well would a heavily armored soldier (on foot) with a larger sword fare against a slightly lighter armed opponent with a large shield and shorter sword?  think of a knight Vs a roman legionary or hoplite.  Remember that this is in a proper battle not 1v1.  The blokes with long swords would probably be in a looser formation than their opponents.  Would their heavy armor make up for their lack of a more compact formation and possible lack of a shield?

Here are a few things to consider:
- My setting is very similar to Ancient Greece
- More advanced metals are available than in ancient Greece (steel and iron along with some I've made up.)  Some troops use chainmail and plate armor in conjunction or instead of the linothorax, boiled leather armor or muscled cuirass.
- Hoplite type soldiers are able to protect themselves in more places withe more advanced armor available
- Most Ellasian armies consist of a main body of phalanx pikeman in the center with heavy but more flexible soldiers on each flank (shield companions). The infantry are supported by cavalry who make hammer and anvil strikes.
- The Grey Guard are Ellasians themselves so these are the types of armies they'd be fighting alongside with and against along with foreign armies.  

Cheers in advance for any help.


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## Alexandra (Apr 3, 2013)

"Would it be possible to wield a long sword in conjunction with a large round shield...? My thoughts would have been no since it would be awkward to swing." The Celts under Boudicca who fought the Romans were often equipped with large oval shields and long swords.

"How well would a heavily armored soldier (on foot) with a larger sword fare against a slightly lighter armed opponent with a large shield and shorter sword?" It depends. In a shield wall confrontation the troops with the short swords would have the advantage because of their more maneuverable weapons. In a more open battle I'd say the troops armed with long swords would have the advantage at least initially because of their ability to strike first. Regardless, in the examples you've given training and tactics would be far more important in predetermining the outcome of a battle.


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## skip.knox (Apr 3, 2013)

Advanced units in that sort of civilization wouldn't have a whole lot to distinguish them other than a general societal recognition that they were distinguished. They would always have full equipment. Their equipment would match. In most regular armies, neither was the case.

They would have standard that you could make special. Their shields would all bear the same device. If you have fantasy metals, you could make it a color unique to them (gray isn't all that exciting, nor is it visually distinct from regular iron or steel armor).

It's unlikely they would be equally skilled on horseback as on foot. In some armies, the cavalry was special.

But in the end, they're going to be special only because they serve as the king's guard, or always lead the charge, or some such. That is, it's how they are used and how they are regarded, more than how they fought.

Unless you give them lasers on their helmets!


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## Abbas-Al-Morim (Apr 3, 2013)

Lasers on helmets are always a bonus. 

I don't think there's a problem with wielding a long sword and a large shield. As long as it's not a zweihander or a claymore you're fine. 

- not an expert though.


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## Alex97 (Apr 3, 2013)

skip.knox said:


> Advanced units in that sort of civilization wouldn't have a whole lot to distinguish them other than a general societal recognition that they were distinguished. They would always have full equipment. Their equipment would match. In most regular armies, neither was the case.
> 
> They would have standard that you could make special. Their shields would all bear the same device. If you have fantasy metals, you could make it a color unique to them (gray isn't all that exciting, nor is it visually distinct from regular iron or steel armor).
> 
> ...



These units aren't part of a specific city state's army.  They exist as a separate order in the mountains which is why their fighting style differs.  They have adopted the long sword (and modified it) from the High-Rikki tribes to the west.  The Grey Guard take on some unconventional roles which means a long sword is handy for 1v1 combat.

They wear grey and black cloaks.  Their armor is usually black, sometimes with gold details. They're meant to look like a sombre lot in comparison to the more shiny elites of the city states.

Most of the time they fight on foot.  Horses are used mainly for transport.  The Grey Guard split their order into different specialized troops, but all have a basic understanding of different forms of combat.  Some are sent in small teams to collect certain things or spy.  It's awkward to explain without a long winded explanation of all the lore and world building etc...

Lasers are always fun! Some among the Grey Guard have superhuman powers.  Mainly the ability to never tire, increased reaction time, strength ect.. These guys are pretty rare though.  Most of the Grey Guard are just good soldiers and have passed a difficult selection.



> In a more open battle I'd say the troops armed with long swords would have the advantage at least initially because of their ability to strike first


I think these guys would be deployed around the flanks where they could break an enemy formation.  They're primarily shock troops at heart.

Cheers for the help


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## Kahle (Apr 3, 2013)

A1-It is possible to use both a large shield and a bastard (hand-and-half) sword, a longsword is just too big. Longswords were two-handed weapons, around five ft long, while the arming sword was three ft long, and the bastard sword is in between. Even if the shield was strapped to the arm in two places, it would encumber the wrists and the pommel of the sword too much to be effective. Bucklers were small enough to be strapped solely to the arm, but were more for archers and the like (generally less awe-inspiring as well). In Lord of the Rings, Aragorn's sword was a five ft warrior's longsword, but Boromir wielded quite a large arming sword with his shield.

A2-in battle formation, the legionary should win every time against a knight. Knights were heavily encumbered by their armor, while the hoplites and legionaries were built around mobility and group protection. One on one or in a broken formation/melee, the knight was more likely the superior fighter. If a legionary left the formation he was pretty much dead-less training for individual fighting. Knights were solitary fighters, and only really worked together in the great cavalry charges. A knight in armor had a horse for mobility, so they weren't designed to fight on foot in their armor, though it was done. The hoplites and legionaries would destroy a cavalry charge, and a hamstrung knight was at his enemy's mercy. Most archers, men-at-arms, etc. carried stiletto daggers solely for the purpose of stabbing a wounded knight through his visor or a slight opening in his armor.

Other notes-

Something Skip.knox was mentioning made me think of the elite fighters' composition. They don't seem to have a tactical focus as a group of fighters. Are they more individual hero figures, or more versatile elites? For example, knights were elite cavalry, legionaries were elite infantry. Do your elites work together in formations whatsoever? Maybe they choose their weapon, but that decision dictates their position in the elite force.

One the elites' gear, they probably could not carry all those weapons. Probably choose between the short or bastard sword with a dagger in reserve, one shield, and bow/crossbow. Usually you can balance a sword belt with the main weapon on the far side and arrows/bolts/dagger on the other for weight balancing. The shield and bow can be slung across the back and spears carried for walking or riding. Also, (not sure whether the elites are the knights or legionaries) the elites would not be able to utilize all this gear with full plate on. The dagger, spear and swords work, but limit the mobility needed for an archer. Archers were generally light and mobile; wearing a hundred plus pounds of armor plus the strain of a 80 pound pull bow would weaken the individual rapidly. Some crossbowmen wore chainmail with a helm, steel bracers, gauntlets, and grieves, but someone carried their shield. Also, cavalry limits the effective bow size (probably means using recurve/composite bows), and all but prohibits crossbow use.

Ellasion would be at an extreme disadvantage to a strong group of archers or ranged attackers. Usually archers weaken the lines for the cavalry's impact, followed by infantry for sustained fighting. Will these Ellasions have archers at all, or does their culture despise ranged combat (like the Greeks, who thought it dishonorable)?


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