# Writing a Fight



## Wanara009 (Nov 24, 2012)

How do you write a fight scene and avoid it being a clunky piece of paragraph describing everything?

My main problem is that some of my character knew martial art (mostly based on Silat or Muay Thai), so they might engage in a fast but complex manoeuvrings. I want to capture that complexity without bogging down the pacing.


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## Anders Ã„mting (Nov 24, 2012)

I don't think you want to completely avoid complexity, rather you want to go for brevity. Those are not quite the same thing. You want the fight to be fast-paced and use as few words as possible, but you also want to give an accurate description of what is going down.

Good examples would be the swordfights in Roger Zelazny's Amber books, or the final duel in Robert Heinlein's Glory Road. Both are written by authors who have actually studied fencing and uses accurate fencing terms and strategy. They still don't feel dragged out or clunky, though, because they only go into fine detail when it really matters. Often "we exchanged blows" is enough, unless something genuinely interesting or important happens. 

I guess my advice is to write it as if you are describing a fight as you are watching it happen, or retelling it to someone else later. You won't have time to explain every single move in detail, but you can still go: "Oh! He managed to pull of _that_ move!" or "He almost connected with _that _technique! That could have gotten ugly."

Also, be careful not to throw around too much terminology - a kick is a kick, so call it a kick. Martial artists often like to use all those exotic terms they've been taught, but they usually don't make the fight scene easier to imagine, plus the only people who appreciate that sort of thing tends to be other martial artists.


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## JadedSidhe (Nov 24, 2012)

Might I suggest reading one of the books in the Cleric Quintet by Salvatore? I'd suggest the second or later books. There's a little monk in the series that fights in a martial arts style, I had no trouble following the moves.


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## wordwalker (Nov 24, 2012)

Anders Ã„mting said:


> I guess my advice is to write it as if you are describing a fight as you are watching it happen, or retelling it to someone else later. You won't have time to explain every single move in detail, but you can still go: "Oh! He managed to pull of _that_ move!" or "He almost connected with _that _technique! That could have gotten ugly."



"This move" might be the most important part, the sense that combat (like anything else in a story) is made up of choices and the anticipation of what looks like it's coming next. For instance: _(at the risk of added to a post from our Sword Expert)_ 

The first thing you want is a sense of what basic moves exist. That might only need you to hint at it in am abstract sense, like "I feinted and thrust, got him" or "he swung left and was blocked, swung right and was blocked again," or it might be in more detail. But if the fight goes on for any length of time, you want to mention enough of those (whether it's with three lines or two pages) to suggest that everything's being tried and the hero --sorry, the guy who's losing so far-- has that "no easy way out" feeling.

The milestones of the fight are the choices people make hoping to tip the scales. An outmatched hero might try one evasion and delaying tactic after another to keep out of the villain's reach. A treacherous villain might pull some surprise attack that disarms or wounds the hero who'd had the advantage so far. 

Ideally, these should say something about the characters themselves (who's quick-witted or maybe just impulsive, who keeps his cool, who's holding back out of fear or takes wild risks when something else is imperiled) and maybe involve things more than purely combat moves: threats, interruptions, and so on.

At the same time, try to have some sense of what does work in a fight; don't be too sure that stopping to chat or getting fancy with the carpet is going to be as deadly as swinging another few punches, just because it sounds cooler to write. Of course you can decide how realistic you want to be, but you ought to know what looks how accurate before you choose.

Anders mentioned the Amber books, and the big swordfight in the first is a great one because it's so plainly about confidence and ruthlessness: Corwin is being slowly but steadily outmatched by the big brother who's *always* been better than him, but he manages one desperate move that gets lucky and gives Eric a tiny wound... just enough to start tipping the balance over time... whereupon Eric simply grabs up a chair, barricades himself in a corner, and laughs that this should give his guards enough time to break down the door. It doesn't go much into moves, but that sense of mood is palpable--at least when the story's been built up this well.

One way or another, a fight's about exactly how things change between combantants, and why.


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## Penpilot (Nov 25, 2012)

To me the key to a fight scene is not the external punch for punch struggle, it's the internal one. A lot of what wordwalker applies. It's about setting up anticipation. It's about the what the fight means to the hero personally in their internal journey.

I'm going to disagree a little with Anders. A little jargon can help flavor the fight if you pick your spots when you use it. Since you're describing the fight from the POV of a character who knows martial arts, IMHO it's fair game, if not expected, that you use a little jargon to describe the fight. But if you're going to use something like 'Flying Dragon's Fist of Thunder', you should set up before hand exactly what that is.


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## wordwalker (Nov 25, 2012)

Penpilot said:


> I'm going to disagree a little with Anders. A little jargon can help flavor the fight if you pick your spots when you use it. Since you're describing the fight from the POV of a character who knows martial arts, IMHO it's fair game, if not expected, that you use a little jargon to describe the fight. But if you're going to use something like 'Flying Dragon's Fist of Thunder', you should set up before hand exactly what that is.



Especially if you do establish it. Jargon's weakness is when a term lays there on its own, instead of having a clear place in the range of options and what they say about the balance of things. Capture that, for just one flavorful thing here and there, and you've spiced up everything.


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## ScipioSmith (Nov 25, 2012)

An example of jargon that can go either way is Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time. All swordfights (at least all those involving the classically trained swordsmen, which is most of them) are described in terms of the bladeforms that are being used: Hunter Over Water met Heron Wading in the Rushes, that sort of thing. It's something that people either love or hate. Personally I think its great he kept all the names straight in his head, but I've never been able to visualise them particularly well.


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## Kit (Nov 25, 2012)

Penpilot said:


> I'm going to disagree a little with Anders. A little jargon can help flavor the fight if you pick your spots when you use it. Since you're describing the fight from the POV of a character who knows martial arts, IMHO it's fair game, if not expected, that you use a little jargon to describe the fight. But if you're going to use something like 'Flying Dragon's Fist of Thunder', you should set up before hand exactly what that is.



And I'm going to disagree with YOU- I find it aesthetically pretty and see no need to dissect it (and this coming from a fighter!). But it can certainly be done badly.


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## Penpilot (Nov 25, 2012)

Kit said:


> And I'm going to disagree with YOU- I find it aesthetically pretty and see no need to dissect it (and this coming from a fighter!). But it can certainly be done badly.



Ok, I'm not exactly clear about what you mean by finding "it aesthetically pretty and see no need to dissect it." Are you saying that all a reader needs in a fight scene is the physical description without the need for introspection? If that's the case I couldn't disagree more.


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## Kit (Nov 25, 2012)

I meant that I think saying "She returned the attack with Flying Dragon's Fist Of Thunder..."  sometimes works well, without the need to establish (either now or beforehand) exactly what that technique is comprised of.

Again, that can be done badly.... I wouldn't want to read six pages of a fight sequence like that.... but you can also err by getting *too* detailed about the techniques. Even a martial artist can get bored with too much explanation of exactly how the guy's fist is oriented and the trajectory of the punch.


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## MystiqueRain (Nov 25, 2012)

I've gotten little bits of advice from people which are a bit broad but a good way to get a mindset going.

-Short sentences to keep it fast-paced
-Strong verbs makes it more dynamic
-Purposeful paragraphs moves it along


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## Penpilot (Nov 25, 2012)

Kit said:


> I meant that I think saying "She returned the attack with Flying Dragon's Fist Of Thunder..."  sometimes works well, without the need to establish (either now or beforehand) exactly what that technique is comprised of.
> 
> Again, that can be done badly.... I wouldn't want to read six pages of a fight sequence like that.... but you can also err by getting *too* detailed about the techniques. Even a martial artist can get bored with too much explanation of exactly how the guy's fist is oriented and the trajectory of the punch.



Oh Ok. In that case. I couldn't agree more.


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## Anders Ã„mting (Nov 26, 2012)

Penpilot said:


> I'm going to disagree a little with Anders. A little jargon can help flavor the fight if you pick your spots when you use it. Since you're describing the fight from the POV of a character who knows martial arts, IMHO it's fair game, if not expected, that you use a little jargon to describe the fight. But if you're going to use something like 'Flying Dragon's Fist of Thunder', you should set up before hand exactly what that is.



Well, I did say not to use it _too _much, as opposed to not using it at all. And I'm not really talking about stuff like Flying Fists of Thunder. Named martial arts techniques can be fun to play around with, after all. 

Rather, a lot of martial arts insist on using special terminology for literally everything, which quite often puts the practicioners into the mindset of for example saying "tate uchi" instead of "punch", even though there's no real difference. I once saw a guy describe a fight entirely in accurate aikido lingo, which of course becomes nonsensical to anyone not trained in aikido.

(You see this a lot among sword fanatics as well - people who insist on using "tsuka" and "ha" instead of "hilt" and "edge", for no apparent reason. I always found the practice kinda silly, myself.)

On the other hand, throwing in a few technical terms can be a good way to flavor the description and say something about the fighters. Here's an example from the Glory Road main duel:



> "I knew in three seconds that I was up against a better swordsman than myself, with a wrist like steel yet supple as a striking snake. He was the only swordsman I have ever met who used prime and octave - used them, I mean, as readily as sixte and quarte. Everyone learns them and my own master made me practice them as much as the other six, but most fencers don't use them. They simply may be forced into them awkwardly and just before losing a point. I would lose not a point, but my life"



See, even if you have no idea what a prime and octave is, that still tells you something about what kind of fencer the narrator is facing.


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## BWFoster78 (Nov 26, 2012)

MystiqueRain said:


> I've gotten little bits of advice from people which are a bit broad but a good way to get a mindset going.
> 
> -Short sentences to keep it fast-paced
> -Strong verbs makes it more dynamic
> -Purposeful paragraphs moves it along



Exactly.  Short sentences and paragraphs speed the pace.

There are so many considerations when writing a good action scene.  Here are some thoughts:

Don't bog down the action with a lot of description.  Remember that, during a fight, the protagonist doesn't have time to note details anyway.  (Caveat: unless you're showing a Matrix style slowing effect.  If you're doing something like that, though, do it purposefully.)

A warning: a lot of short sentences can get choppy.  You've got to guard against that by varying structure.  Add some dialogue or internal conflict to break up the action.

Don't let the fight last too long.  The faster the pace and the greater the tension, the easier it is to wear out the reader.


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## Zero Angel (Nov 26, 2012)

One of the thing I do is treat my fight scenes as a series of crashes where I highlight the impacts of the fight. 

I describe everything relevant of course, but I focus on the crashes.


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## Rullenzar (Nov 30, 2012)

I find keeping it simple is the best way to go. I'm sure characters have special moves that may be explained in more detail or a combination that ends in someones demise but you don't want to give to much. You need to let the readers imagination take over. Each reader will probably see it differently and that's the magic. Save all the complex details for choreographers in the movie version


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## wordwalker (Dec 1, 2012)

Rullenzar said:


> I find keeping it simple is the best way to go. I'm sure characters have special moves that may be explained in more detail or a combination that ends in someones demise but you don't want to give to much. You need to let the readers imagination take over. Each reader will probably see it differently and that's the magic. Save all the complex details for choreographers in the movie version



A fair point, especially since you don't want to gamble that you know fighting better than all your readers. (If you do, your detail still hasn't gained that much, but if you slip, you're turned someone off.)

But one caveat about "leave it to the imagination": if you leave a maneuver undefined, you still want to tie it to something quick that gives the reader some sense of why someone used that: "he risked a Dragon Punch" (uh-oh, he's getting desperate), or "he forced him back with a Dragon Punch and then..." (so it might be a safe, not-too-strong move that starts a combo). Without that, it's too easy to leave the term hanging in the middle of nothing and disconnect the reader, the ultimate Tell Not Show.


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## Devor (Dec 2, 2012)

Bring your verbs towards the front of the sentence.

Make good use of the basic directional words, like over, up, beside and through.  

Short sentences.  Long sentences with short parts.  Short paragraphs.

Try to build momentum.  If you're reading it out loud, you should be able to feel the excitement in your voice.

Depending on what's going on, be very careful with internalizing during a fight scene.  You need to do it, of course.  But if the fight is genuinely interesting of its own accord, then you should make sure you give your readers a chance to react to it themselves.  Too much internalizing during the action can also make a fight scene seem longer than it actually is - most fights last just a few seconds, and it should feel like that to a reader.


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## wordwalker (Dec 2, 2012)

Devor said:


> Bring your verbs towards the front of the sentence.
> 
> Make good use of the basic directional words, like over, up, beside and through.
> 
> ...



Excellent points all. But this:



Devor said:


> Short sentences.  Long sentences with short parts.  Short paragraphs.



*Thank* you! One piece of advice everyone gives is to use short sentences, but that isn't always as good as long sentences with short parts. A short sentence makes the impression that one thing has happened and then you get a moment to stop and say "that's over; what next?" But parts of a fight ought to be the sense of a thing happening, but there's a response, you try desperately to react, spot the other enemy at the corner of your eye, and barely get away alive.

The more desperate moments need that sense of events (or at least sensations) piling up almost faster than the mind can track them, and using short sentences right then would kill that. (Happening "almost faster," mind you; short clauses and relatively short paragraphs are key to keeping it from getting too muddled.)

(I've also heard that short sentences simulate rapid breathing. Maybe, but one of the first lessons many teachers give is that if you don't watch your breathing, you get distracted by letting too much go by before you remember your next breath. Longer sentences can simulate that loss of control too.)

Short sentences aren't better. It's the right mix that works best.


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## Zero Angel (Dec 3, 2012)

Devor said:


> Bring your verbs towards the front of the sentence.
> 
> Make good use of the basic directional words, like over, up, beside and through.
> 
> ...



In a slight tangent (but hopefully still mostly on-topic), short paragraphs are important especially in e-Reading. I've submitted stories to eMagazines and the like that have had "short paragraphs" as one of the things they look for. It makes it easier to read in an online situation apparently. So that is something to keep in mind even outside of fight scenes depending on what medium you are targeting.


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## Steerpike (Dec 3, 2012)

It comes down to the type of work you are writing and the style and approach you want to take with respect to fight scenes. There isn't one right way to write a fight scene. If you want a cinematic action sequence that gives a close to blow-by-blow account of the fight and tries to pull the reader headlong into the action, go with short, punch sentences, active writing, and use strong words that will impact the reader. You certainly don't _have_ to write a fight scene that way, however. If your entire work follows more of a wordy, flowing style, there is not reason you can't maintain it during the fight sequences. In some cases, you certainly may want to do so to maintain consistency in the work. You might still take the approach of a more blow-by-blow description, or you might describe the fight in summary form. The latter has been done very effectively by authors. In either case, you might use long, slow sentences in writing the fight. There's nothing wrong with that. Figure out which approach works best for your story and your vision and go with it.


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