# Allowances for Children of Nobility



## FifthView (Jun 11, 2017)

The more general question: From medieval through Renaissance periods in Europe, how did the children of royalty, nobility, and perhaps extremely wealthy merchants, receive money?

I suppose a variety of methods and means would explain why all the rich brats in fantasy worlds always have coin to throw around, heh. Everything from being made lords with estates themselves, to bribery, to engaging in various money-making ventures, to simply going down to the king's treasurer (or equivalent manager of money for nobles and possibly even rich merchants) and asking for coin.

But I'm looking for a process similar to a monthly allowance. I think that term might have been used; but are there better terms for the process? And how would the coin be doled out? Would the son of a very wealthy merchant or noble receive a writ monthly and exchange it for coin at a bank (probably more Renaissance) or, if noble or royalty, take it to the household's treasurer?

My more specific question for my WIP: 

I have a youngest son of an extremely wealthy, prominent merchant family. He was born late. His brothers are about twenty years older than he is and have already taken over family estates and, along with the father, manage the business. This youngest son is basically spoiled, has no responsibilities, is eighteen years old, and is fully supported by his parents. His parents haven't pushed him in any direction, i.e., to join the family enterprise or find some other employment, but basically let him run wild. How would I go about explaining (really, showing) this? An allowance?


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## Heliotrope (Jun 11, 2017)

I'm not sure it needs to be historically accurate? If you just said that "This is what _his_ family does" I don't think any reader would bat an eye. 

My husband and I took a little tour down in New Orleans last year and visited some Plantation houses. This is not Renaissance era, obviously, but I was surprised to learn that it was customary for the there to be a "Big House" where the parents and young children and daughters lived, but once the boys turned a certain age (around 15) they were moved to another house known as the "bachelors quarters". It was a totally separate house on the property, but away from the Big House. I found that fascinating. 

Where I'm going with this is that throughout history, all over the world, there have been different customs and traditions for how male youth have been treated... if you set it up so that your specific youth receives an allowance, I don't think anyone would say "But that isn't historically accurate..." Especially in a fantasy.

Ahhhhh... I see you have a more specific question of how would you show it... or a better question might be "why" would they let him run wild with no responsibility? 

Hmmmmmm... brainstorming is fun! 

Ok..... 

Maybe he was born with a small deformity. Nothing major but enough that his parents feel guilty and "baby" him a bit. Maybe he is missing an eye, or he was dropped as a child and broke his shoulder and the bone never set right and was always a bit "off" and so his parents have continued to sort of "baby" him, since he obviously isn't as "strong" as the others. 

Maybe, because he was born when his mother was at an 'advanced age', well after they thought she was incapable of having children, so they think he is some miracle gift from the gods or something and he has a 'destiny' so they don't push him into too much responsibility.


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## Heliotrope (Jun 12, 2017)

Ok, my husband is a Councillor so I asked him  

I said "Why would parents baby an 18 year old and let him run wild with no responsibility and give him hand outs all the time?" 

His response "So they don't have to deal with his behavior." 

So basically, maybe he's a little shit, and always has been. Just a pampered, spoiled, brat. Really has trouble controlling his emotions. Always had a lot of tantrums as a child etc. His parents had already dealt with all that crap twenty years earlier with the other boys and now are pretty old and tired and can't deal with a toddler. They are too busy dealing with the family business. 

So they just give in. They just give him what he wants so they don't have to deal with the behavior. This continues on until the boy is 18, his parents could be his grandparents. But now the habit is so entrenched they can't get out of it. He is a disaster. He still throws tantrums, but now he is capable of serious damage. They don't let him know anything about the family business because he is so irresponsible and irrational he would destroy any business relationships, and he can't be trusted to run any part of the estate. So they just pay him his hefty monthly allowance to keep him happy and busy. 

It is cheaper for them to pay off his debts and let him drink himself into a stupor and bail him out of prison than to let him anywhere near the family business.


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## FifthView (Jun 12, 2017)

Hah, Helio, that's some prescience right there!

I basically have the backstory and reasoning for this character already determined. From the mother's perspective, he was a kind of "miracle baby." The kid didn't show much interest in the business, despite his father's best efforts, so after some attempts, the father let him run wild. The family is so wealthy and prominent in the community anyway, with some strong influence over the local government, this kid wasn't a burden.

BUT, in present day, the kid is getting into some real trouble. The financial support etc. are going to be yanked away from him, as a result.

So, I need to understand the nature of that support. I'm not necessarily looking for a way to make this historically accurate, but I'm wanting to mine history for ideas. I have a slight hesitation with using the term "allowance" because of modern connotations. (It's not a historical novel, so I don't necessarily want to depend on historical usage of that word to explain its presence.) I could simply call it that, if nothing better exists.

Also, maybe I should have mentioned that he's not living on the family estate and doesn't interact much with his parents, at least over the last year and a half or so. This is one of the reasons I wondered about how the physical coin would end up in his purse, heh. I have some ideas about that (not to mention that some of his present day troubles involve other means for acquiring coin--and losing it, e.g. gambling) but I was wondering what sort of historical models existed. If the parents are going to yank it, I need to know first how they gave it.


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## skip.knox (Jun 12, 2017)

A monthly allowance would have been possible but unlikely. More usual would have been to give him an income--from family estates or from some other sources (fines, taxes, imposts). Most such incomes were annual rather than monthly, producing something every month being at the extreme edge of medieval efficiency.  Something similar would have been done with wealthy merchants, for they very likely also had landed income. 

As for how the kid was paid, that would depend on the source of income. Could be anything from coins to a horse and two goats. The kid of course would not have handled such things directly; a proctor or advisor would have handled the actual transaction, producing and possibly even administering the actual money on behalf of the kid. Personal piggy bank. Here again it would be similar for a wealthy commoner.

Among the nobility, the age of majority was typically in the mid-teens. A boy could marry at 14. You could be king of England at 15. So your eighteen-year-old might very well have had his income for a couple years or more. As you might imagine, the conditions and details of said income provided ample opportunities for quarrels between father and son, as well as among brothers.


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## FifthView (Jun 12, 2017)

Thanks, Skip. That gives me some great ideas. 

I think I'll probably modify the responsibilities bit, create some low-level function the kid might have in the family business. He won't actually _do_ any of the work; he'll have a proctor/adviser who'll do all the work. Something that involves collecting money, in addition to whatever else. After this "personal piggy bank" collects revenues, the kid will receive a portion as his share before the rest is passed up to the father via this proctor. So the kid will nominally be a type of middle-management or even lower-level management, albeit one who doesn't do any work; it's an arrangement created by the parents in order to support him. I imagine that proctor will work more for the father than the kid and will know this.

Quarrels with father and one brother play a role in the story, so this should work well for introducing added levels of conflict.

Edit: The question is one I've had on my mind before when dealing with the children of the wealthy. It would seem that, in most cases, money wasn't simply doled out _sans_ an expected activity or role. Things needed done, on the ground, and kids managed those duties and affairs. Would this basically be correct? I have another character in the story who is a few years older, is cousin to the royal family but serves in the military; but, he'll have an estate of his own already, although he's rarely on it.


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## skip.knox (Jun 12, 2017)

>money wasn't simply doled out sans an expected activity or role
Probably, but I can think of exceptions. For example, the de Hauteville boys--all twelve of them! As you can well imagine, daddy Tancred had nowhere near enough estates to settle twelve male heirs, and most of them were simply sent packing with a horse, some armor, and best wishes. Eight of them wound up in Sicily and Apulia, where they carved out quite a dynasty. Another example is William Marshal in the early 13thc, who was reared by an uncle and who set out (again with horse and arms) to make his fortune. He worked the tournament circuit and eventually was at the court of England and was regent during Henry III's minority.

Those were spectacular careers, but they do show that not every son was directly provided for. It makes me think that it would have been entirely possible for a doting father to fund his son without insisting on much in return. I can also see the father doing so reluctantly, to please his doting wife. There's also plenty of room for the son being given some role in the company or estate, only to make a muddle of it, but regularly being bailed out by aforesaid doting parents. They don't even have to dote; having a failed son, especially a failed eldest, would be embarrassing both fiscally and socially. Parents will go to some lengths to cover that up.

Anyway, there's plenty of room for story in there. Always is, when you start with people.


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## Rkcapps (Jun 12, 2017)

Maybe certain lands have been bestowed on him and he gets an income from them? I think as long as you set up "rules" of your world a reader will believe what you do in the world rules. After all, this is fantasy.  I know as a reader I don't nit-pick details as long as the world "rules" are consistent.


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## psychotick (Jun 13, 2017)

Hi,

I've actually written characters in this situation. The typical rule for nobility with sons would be "an heir and a spare". So the two eldest boys would have responsibilities placed on them. Girls would have been married off. With younger sons it would be anyone's guess what might happen. Some might have been turfed out on their chuffs with nothing. Others might have been paid a stipend (Bertie Wooster from Jeezes and Wooster) with the only thing demanded of them that they didn't create an embarrassment. Some might have been given positions within the family business. And of course the old stand by's would apply for third sons if they misbehaved - the army or the priesthood. Or he might be expected to marry as well to some girl from a noble family with no sons. That way he runs the estate in due course, and in time his sons do.

If your character's running wild, I would imagine not only would his income be threatened, but he might well be told it's the army life for him!

Cheers, Greg.


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## FifthView (Jun 13, 2017)

Thanks Greg.

Basically, I've had in mind that this character begins in a cushy position even if he doesn't fully realize this–why I was wondering about a stipend or allowance–but through his actions causes enough embarrassment for his parents in the community that they are forced to take him in hand, upsetting the years-long status quo. The solution is to send him away. Their intention is not so much to force him into the priesthood or army; it's an extended errand/task. But best laid plans....Heh. 



psychotick said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've actually written characters in this situation. The typical rule for nobility with sons would be "an heir and a spare". So the two eldest boys would have responsibilities placed on them. Girls would have been married off. With younger sons it would be anyone's guess what might happen. Some might have been turfed out on their chuffs with nothing. Others might have been paid a stipend (Bertie Wooster from Jeezes and Wooster) with the only thing demanded of them that they didn't create an embarrassment. Some might have been given positions within the family business. And of course the old stand by's would apply for third sons if they misbehaved - the army or the priesthood. Or he might be expected to marry as well to some girl from a noble family with no sons. That way he runs the estate in due course, and in time his sons do.
> 
> ...


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## psychotick (Jun 13, 2017)

Hi,

Send him away? There's plenty of books and shows where noble brats have been sent a long way away - Egypt, the East etc, and told to run the family business / outpost there. You said they were merchants. Look for or create a trade city somewhere overseas. Another reason to send him overseas might be to force him to live with his extended in-laws in "the colonies?"

Cheers, Greg.


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## FifthView (Jun 13, 2017)

psychotick said:


> Hi,
> 
> Send him away? There's plenty of books and shows where noble brats have been sent a long way away - Egypt, the East etc, and told to run the family business / outpost there. You said they were merchants. Look for or create a trade city somewhere overseas. Another reason to send him overseas might be to force him to live with his extended in-laws in "the colonies?"
> 
> Cheers, Greg.



Yeah. The main plot involves what happens once he starts his travel to this other place. I've always had in mind the general plot, his general beginning position (spoiled brat) and what he eventually becomes. I've known the broad details, but when writing, I kept hitting some roadblocks because I didn't have the specifics.

The idea of an allowance was an easy fix for explaining his state, but the scenes showing this state, leading up to the scandal/problems, and having the allowance withdrawn weren't very interesting. I mean, what, the monthly purse of silver just doesn't show up one day? Heh. So Skip's comments inspired me to consider a way to find "free money" for this kid in a more interesting way. Now that the kid's nominally a representative of the business, I can use a business trip as a rationalization for getting him to where he needs to go for the plot. (I'd had a few other ideas, but they weren't really falling into place in an organic way.) So it's all kind of jelling right now.

It's funny you mentioned the colonies. Last night I started thinking this would be like an early-18th century minor noble sending his brat of a kid to the colonies, just to get the kid away from some scandal in England, and the kid "going native" as a result of events that unfold in America.


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## psychotick (Jun 17, 2017)

Hi,

It may be a little away from what you're looking for, but my thought (based largely on Jeeves and Wooster I admit) would be that the family pays him a three monthly or six monthly stipend - for which he has to go cap in hand to them - and then for the rest just in case he's a complete wastrel when it comes to money, simply has allthe bills for his home - servants, food, rates etc, sent directly to them. That way they keep an eye on him.

Cheers, Greg.


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## FifthView (Jun 17, 2017)

That's not too far from what I'd originally planned. I'd also imagined that some of his living expenses were already paid by them in an ongoing arrangement, for instance his room and board.

One of the reasons I asked about the specifics and historical models is that I've always had in mind he doesn't deal directly with his parents. Mostly, this is for dramatic effect for when he does receive an official summons after his parents learn of the problems he's caused in the community. I wanted that summons and confrontation to be out of the ordinary. I could still do that if I used your idea, but I like the idea of making the summons something that stands out. He hasn't had to go directly to his parents for some time now.

In a loose way, I picture him as the sort of kid who goes off to university and lives in a frat house. He's not a complete good-for-nothing lout, but he is somewhat spoiled and he's more focused on having fun, partying, and the like than any serious enterprise. 



psychotick said:


> Hi,
> 
> It may be a little away from what you're looking for, but my thought (based largely on Jeeves and Wooster I admit) would be that the family pays him a three monthly or six monthly stipend - for which he has to go cap in hand to them - and then for the rest just in case he's a complete wastrel when it comes to money, simply has allthe bills for his home - servants, food, rates etc, sent directly to them. That way they keep an eye on him.
> 
> Cheers, Greg.


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## skip.knox (Jun 17, 2017)

This was done fairly regularly in the high and late middle ages. An important merchant family such as the Welsers of Augsburg or the Paumgartners of Nuremberg found it was in their interest to have an office in other big cities, such as Bruges or Venice. Those were usually locals, because they knew the ground.

The families began sending junior and cadet members off to the other cities to learn the ropes. I don't have any specifics, but they would assuredly have been sent with some sort of income. I remember reading a cautionary letter from some Luebeck merchants warning the young 'un of the dangers of living in Venice, famous for loose morals. So your feeling of a frat house hits fairly close to the mark. And there would be plenty of opportunity for the young 'un to screw up the business, especially if the factor (the local in charge) were negligent or overly-indulgent. Or just plain corrupt.


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## skip.knox (Jun 17, 2017)

Oh, one more thing. Another historical example on which you could draw would be university students. We have lots of letters from them writing back home pleading for money. This implies that a common arrangement was to be given an initial stipend, which might be spent too quickly, forcing the wastrel to write home for more. Depending on the era, the money could be disbursed via a letter written to a local bank, or (pre-banking) might be sent as actual coin via courier.


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## FifthView (Jun 17, 2017)

I have encountered lots of references to kids being sent to university during the middle ages, and even a bit of this sort of thing for merchant classes. I seem to recall some essay of Montaigne's in which he's relating early trips to Italy, and then others when he was at university studying. A little reading about the Reformation has also included general references. (Owing to the religious nature of the university system.) These very general encounters helped shape my initial ideas, brainstorming, when I created this character. But I've always been a little unclear about the specifics of the money distribution for the young'uns, hah. I do seem to remember cases where some financial bad straits would force the parents to recall the children, also, or some other calamity.

Okay, so I just did a search for university life in the middle ages. Here are a couple finds, basically what you've pointed out already:

Outside of academics, student life may look more familiar to us. Financially, students had much the same kinds of help available--sponsorship by private individual, public institution, or Church, and a variety of bursaries and institutional loans--though admittedly those offered the opportunity of higher education, or even grammar school, comprised a much lower percentage of the population. Nonetheless, the fact that sons of the nobility accounted for only a negligible number of students until the mid-fifteenth century should dispel any notions of the spoiled graduate student of Hamlet's ilk.

Students lived modestly, not opulently, and ever increasingly within colleges and halls, which not incidentally also took responsibility for their moral and behavioral standards. Unfortunately, despite strict rules of conduct and the threat of corporeal punishment or imprisonment to enforce them, problems existed with extracurricular student behavior. Activities ranged from sanctioned sports, minstrelsy, drama, chess, and carnivals to illicit drinking, gambling, whoring, poaching, brawls, and sometimes full-scale riots which required army intervention to set them down. In general, students had bad reputations among townspeople, who deeply resented the clerical status which allowed them to escape censure from city and state authorities. Cobban devotes all of chapter 6 to the relations between scholars and laymen and the serious problems which plagued them. [ English University Life in the Middle Ages ]​
This does fit a bit with some previous reading about the off-campus entertainments of students. I vaguely remember some documentary about Luther, maybe, or some other prominent person, in which such things were mentioned, hah.

Most interesting of all. Professor Haskins found to be the personal letters of student to father or father to student. Requests for money predominated the letters addressed to fathers. In fact, rhetoricians made a respectable income by writing for students letters guaranteed to arouse compassion. One student added at the end of his letter. "Without Ceres and Bacchus, Apollo grows cold," while another wrote that the messenger from home bringing money had been robbed.  [ DESCRIBES UNIVERSITY LIFE OF MIDDLE AGES | News | The Harvard Crimson ]​
This, I think, is ripe for use in some other story.

My character is not a student, and I specifically hadn't wanted his current life to be so structured, i.e. he hasn't been sent anywhere by parents for an official reason—although, I am now giving him a putative lower-level role in the family business.

Edit: An odd bit of miscellany relating to one of those student letters: Sine Cerere et Baccho friget Venus.


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## CSEllis (Jun 26, 2017)

In a word, yes.

For royal families, at a very young age you'd give your sons (and daughters who might inherit) titles and lands. Hence why Britain has the heir becoming to Prince of Wales etc.

As part of this, they would receive their own retinue (including nurses, carers and noble children their own age) although it is likely that they wouldn't leave their parents too much (depending on the mood of the ruler of course - if you piss off your father, or your mother does, then the chances are your retinue will be broken up/shrunken and you'll be sent somewhere out of the way). Younger sons also got titles and/or jobs. For example, in regency Britain, the Prince of Wales was obviously the Prince of Wales and regent during his father's madness, his brother was the Duke of York and Commander-in-Chief of the army (and this wasn't merely ceremonial, he (and his mistress) got into a big scandal during his tenure). Another of his brothers was put into the navy (the future William IV).

For your noble families, the best I can come up with is that they did receive an allowance, like your university students. The examples I can remember off the top of my head come from Jeeves and Wooster, where all the rich kids get allowances from their fathers which they then spend with abandon on drink and horses.

As for how much money, well, the amount would keep you in a good house, with good food and good clothes. You'd never look any different from any of the other 'quality'.


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