# Bringing Back Iron Pen



## ThinkerX (Feb 22, 2016)

'Iron Pen' was the best challenge series this site has had.

Ankari started 'Iron Pen,' but he's been absent for ages.

I intend to bring it back, maybe under a different name.  We have posters here who could benefit.

Thoughts?


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## pischtoph (Feb 22, 2016)

What's iron pen?


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## Letharg (Feb 22, 2016)

Awesome idea! Count me in!


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## Chessie (Feb 22, 2016)

I'm totally all about it.


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## Steerpike (Feb 22, 2016)

Would be fun. I do think the name should be changed, however.


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## Svrtnsse (Feb 22, 2016)

Mithril Pen?


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## Devor (Feb 22, 2016)

I would love to see this happen.

A few quick thoughts:

 - Completely new name.  Iron Pen was Ankari's, it published an Anthology, it has a logo.  We need a total split.  Or his approval, if anybody wants to reach out to him.

 - Let's tie it firmly to Mythic Scribes so that responsibility for hosting the challenge and following up with judging can be passed around, with multiple people agreeing to help on a long term basis.  That is, if ThinkerX hosts a challenge and disappears, somebody else should be on hand to say, "Okay, he's not around so I'll see it through and start next month's."  There could even be a hosting and judging sign up sheet.

 - Let's draw up a brief contract and link it in every contest thread agreeing that we have the rights to publish the winner, even if we do it a year later and that person has disappeared from the site. Speaking of which, maybe we should also collect email addresses?


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## Caged Maiden (Feb 22, 2016)

Since many of us have posted challenges and many more have participated, I'm of course excited about the idea. If anyone is interested, I compiled some of the Iron Pens into documents so they wouldn't disappear if this site did.  I contacted Ankiari a year ago asking if he wanted these transcripts, but he didn't respond with interest. my intent in doing this was purely because I loved the competition and wanted to archive it so it wouldn't be lost if the internet freaked out or whatever, but I think the documents I compiled have merit to anyone who merely wants to read the old entries, all neatly categorized with the feedback they earned and the scores and winners. I even made little graphs. Anyways, I thought I'd offered them up in a public thread, but perhaps I forgot, or was awaiting Ankari's response?

As to beginning a new challenge, I love the idea. I would be more inclined to participate if the challenge was independent of the site, as in, in the authors' hands. If it were me determining the structure of the undertaking, I would like to see a consistent challenge (as Iron pen always featured four prompts, with the exception of the picture ones, and the prompts were random in nature). Having a consistent set of rules and format for the challenge helped to keep the contest new and fresh, and the results varied. The thing was, we were all writing for fun. We weren't writing to publish those stories in an anthology, the anthology came only after 12 "seasons" of the challenge. I would imagine the contest would be quite different if the intent was to run a series of 10 challenges and then publish the winning entries in a collection. Just something to consider.

By that I simply mean that we might be excluding or even discouraging our newer members from submitting their stories if they feel they can't compete with those who have produced winning entries multiple times.

As for a contract, I would definitely not agree to participate in a challenge if I knew that the hosting site had the right to publish my work without my approval at any time in the future. I know several people here intended to self-publish their own stories on their blogs or websites, or in their own anthologies, and that would undermine their rights as writers. Also, what if someone wrote a story set in their own fantasy world (as several have done in Iron Pen), a sort of character exploration. They might not want that story to be published in an anthology before they released a book, or whatever.

I think that needs some more work and discussion, because though I feel like it could save future headache, it will most likely discourage people with those kinds of personal goals from participating, and one of the reasons Iron Pen was such a beloved challenge was because we drew so many consistent competitors. Folks who maybe had never entered a challenge before. Folks who liked to prompt-write to keep their inspiration moving (like me), and other people who just liked the distraction. Some of those people wouldn't enter anything if they felt they had signed away their rights simply by participating.

I do however agree that a rotation of the hosts would be really awesome, because I know how demanding it is to host challenges and crit all the entries and score and judge them. I've considered hosting more challenges, but then I have to weigh the pros and cons of spending my time doing that, vs. just writing. It's great if we have a team to work together, and many of us have known each other for a long time, so I know we could form a strong team, but I feel like the most important thing in this undertaking is to simply get the challenges rolling again. People will jump on board when they see how much fun it is and how awesome the entries, but who will participate in the first one if they know up front that they are submitting a story that by all accounts the right have already been bought for? Not me. My story in the anthology is unavailable to me until the contract is finished, which means I cannot include that story in my own collections I might want to self-publish or whatever. That's a big commitment to a future anthology that may or may not ever be made, and may or may not ever pay even the smallest royalties. A writer might do far better to self-publish their own entry story if it's good. And then the question is raised, what if my story doesn't win? Might it still be unavailable to me? What if I participate four times in the new challenge? Does that mean all four non-winning stories are in stasis until the committee decided to release them? I mean, what if the "winners" weren't available by email? How would editing happen? With the Iron Pen Anthology, my story was edited and grew from 3500 words to 7k. That was a bigger process for some of the writers, whose stories changed dramatically. Would said contract include the possibility of having one's work thoroughly edited in that fashion without their written approval? If not, what kind of quality could we expect of the future anthology, if we were contracted to print the stories as submitted? This just produces way too many frightening possibilities, if you ask me (and I understand you haven't, but hopefully people will consider what I've said, because it's one thing to get a challenge rolling again, and another to immediately jump to signing contracts and planning an anthology).

I think first we need a consistent challenge again. Then, once we have a steady participation and a pile of quality stories that could potentially make for a good anthology, we should discuss the compilation of said stories and the editing procedure, like Ankari did. Who would be the final say on which stories were considered fit for publication? With Ankari at the helm, we had one person who was responsible for judging, we knew his standards, we participated voluntarily, and when we were contacted about the anthology, we knew what we were being offered and we knew the requirements for joining in the project. I simply can't see a possible way to begin the undertaking as a commercial venture, because it will prevent many people from participating. Many of our newer members might not feel comfortable with signing a contract to compete, especially if the future prospects aren't clearly spelled out, and many of our seasoned members simply know they can derive more benefit from their story by posting it on their own site and using it as bait on a lure to their other longer works.

I want to see the challenges section flourish again. It was my main draw to this site for the last four years, and I'm a champion for the prompt writing, short story dash of finishing a story quickly, and the "get it right the first time" attitude of week-long challenges. I love the excitement, the thrill of writing fast, editing faster, and reading the other entries, wondering how you will stack up against the competition. I think it's a huge benefit to newer writers and veterans alike, to participate in challenges to flex your muscles, experiment with styles, and read the other entries to gain perspective and test your critique skills. But I don't want to see any challenge entered into as a commercial venture, because I think it defeats the spirit we spent so long in developing here. 

If it's just a challenge for fun, with the potential to later compile entries for a commercial purpose, count me in. I've got some great challenge ideas.


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## Devor (Feb 22, 2016)

That's a fair point about the contract, Caged Maiden.  So drop that idea, but we should still have some sort of toned-down agreement happening where at least the winner agrees to submit their contact information so that we can reach out to them for possibilities that might arise in the future.  We still want to be prepared, y'know?

((edit))

I also agree about having a roughly consistent challenge.  But I think there could be a few different formats that we could use.  Iron Pen used a list of four prompts, and sometimes the picture prompt.  I think it makes sense to be open to adding one or two more formats.


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## Chessie (Feb 22, 2016)

What about a contract which also allows the writer to retain rights? I was reading about how to create an anthology the other day on Lindsay Buroker's blog and it mentions how the anthology her guest had put together allowed their writers to retain their rights to the story and publish it in their anthology as well.


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## Devor (Feb 22, 2016)

Here's an idea.  If we get to publishing a new contest anthology, what if we focused on making it a professional editing experience, and instead of giving everyone involved a cut, what if we made it into a fundraiser for site improvements and future events (like to pay for editing the next anthology....)?

I know that I personally would be more inclined to compete for the editing experience, and to buy the book as part of a fundraiser, than to be part of a bottom rung anthology.  I can't be the only person who feels that way.


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## Velka (Feb 22, 2016)

I'd like the formal challenges to return. I had a lot of fun participating in the Paint a Thousand Words challenge last February. Retaining rights is important and I like Devor's idea to use it as a fundraiser for professional editing - that would be a great learning experience for many of us.


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## Devor (Feb 22, 2016)

Just out of curiosity,

If we offered a simple set of guidelines and a sign up sheet, who would be willing to host a competition?  That would mean coming up with the prompt and offering some kind of a critique to each entrant.

Press "Thanks" on this post if you would be willing to volunteer to take a turn as the host for a monthly competition.  Let's see how many people want to help do this.


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## Nimue (Feb 22, 2016)

I'd really love to see a regular challenge around again.  Never got to participate in an Iron Pen, but it sounds great.

Personally, I wouldn't want to be part of an anthology--that's not what I would write for, and it kind of adds an unwelcome level of pressure.  To be honest, I wouldn't want to publish anything that hasn't passed the scrutiny of some level of professional editor.  Whether or not an editor hired for the project would meet that criteria for me...I still probably would want to opt out.  Just not pursuing publishing of any sort right now.

Don't think I'd be any good at hosting, but if you really need more volunteers I could try.


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## Devor (Feb 22, 2016)

Nimue said:


> IPersonally, I wouldn't want to be part of an anthology--that's not what I would write for, and it kind of adds an unwelcome level of pressure.



Yes, I agree, I'm kind of just thinking out loud.

I'm on board with having no commitments to any kind of anthology when you enter.  Like the Iron Pen, _maybe_ we'll consider reaching out to people for an anthology after we have a dozen or so winners.  But I agree with Caged Maiden's points about pressure and rights and that it shouldn't be built into the competition up front.


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## Caged Maiden (Feb 22, 2016)

Again, I think the prudent way to proceed is to simply ask people to create challenges again. Put the word out that we're interested. We had a lot of Iron Pen contestants over the years, and we've had some really good challenges that simply got our brain juices flowing, despite being one-off challenges (Clichea, 30 days, Reaver I, II, and III, Bounty hunter challenge, Kilvikasa, Caged Cat, Chilari, etc.). The idea of beginning with the concept of a commercial venture is enough to discourage a lot of our members from participating. I know in the past, some people have been put off by the feedback or scores, others by their perception that their story was the worst. I think the best scenario would be for a few people to host un-scored challenges. Others to host self-scored challenges, where the writers score the entries, as I did in my challenge and others I've participated in. Others still could be recurring challenges like Iron Pen, where one person is at the helm and they rely on a team of volunteer judges to offer hopefully a clear set of rules and then multiple perspectives to get an average score. 

Basically, this thread was a question of whether people would still participate in an Iron Pen style challenge, and I know without a doubt that we would have participants, though it might not be well-attended in the beginning, as it got it's wheels spinning. The more we show how much fun it is, the more people will join in. We had Iron Pens with four entries, and we had some with like 13. A huge spread. Let's get the ball rolling again, and then later, if it's a successful run, we can talk about the possibility of pursuing a next level. 

But if we get bogged down in the future of what it could be, there'll be too many confusing details that will prohibit a lot of folks from simply throwing their hat in the ring. And that would be sad, because some of us are challenge junkies and for me, that was the biggest benefit to my skills as a writer. We're talking about that right now in the Tone of Voice thread. 

Don't forget that to register here as a member you must submit an email address. You can directly contact any member through that email address, as an option on their profile ( so they needn't frequent the forums anymore to contact them). And honestly, let's say in six months, there is talk of using entries from some of the challenges as an anthology, if someone truly falls off the face of the planet, well... they're out of the running, right? Go to the next person on the list. Or let a private writer contact folks who had good stories and initiate their own project and contract. There's nothing stopping me from contacting anyone here and saying, "Hey, I like your elves, and I liked this other guy's elves in his short story. What do you say we each write three or four elf-based shorts and publish them together as an anthology?"

I think the general consensus is that we want to see more challenges again. So let's make that happen! The easy way to get competitors is to do what Phil and Ankari do--offer a $20 Amazon gift card as a prize and you're sure to have at least ten people throw their hat in. i'll do my part to throw some challenges up and furnish prizes if people want to compete. I'm sure others will, too. But we've unfortunately lost a lot of competitors due to the fact that we haven't had any really solid challenges for a while. Build it and they will come...


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## pischtoph (Feb 22, 2016)

I live for these kinds of things it helps my writer block, but what has been said is the original seemed like it wasn't built around being published. I know that would deter me, depending on what we are writing about and how much I had to create.
All in all I will help as much as I can! 


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## Chessie (Feb 22, 2016)

Let's say that someone wins the Iron Pen and doesn't want it published in an anthology. Then maybe the runner up can be offered that slot. Just shooting from the hip here. But perhaps the thing that stood out to me the most about Iron Pen in particular was that opportunity to be published in the anthology. It's really wonderful for visibility and learning in general. I personally would like to see that remain for those who would like that. 

Also, there are other challenges that can be done (CM mentioned Chilari's and those were always good as well). Thinker X specifically mentioned Iron Pen though and I'm just gonna guess it's because of the high level of challenge that it was so popular (definitely kicked my bottom a couple times). Anyway, I'd be happy to pitch in and help out in whichever way was needed the most.

P.S.
Didn't Phil do a generator challenge? I'm having a memory lapse on what that one was called though.


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## Devor (Feb 22, 2016)

Yeah, I think the fact that Iron Pen was a monthly challenge, with a name, that was organized, is the reason that it was so successful and made other challenges more successful, too.  Any given Iron Pen challenge wasn't particularly remarkable by itself.  It's the build up over time that did it - "Hey, I see all these people getting involved in Iron Pen month after month, maybe I'll join in this time."

But it was too much to expect one person to keep up with, whether that was Ankari or T.Allen, with the Paint a Thousand Words challenge.  I think we need to distribute the responsibilities.


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## ThinkerX (Feb 22, 2016)

Thank you for the responses!

My main reason for bringing back Iron Pen is because it's beneficial to our newer posters.  Completing a story within a given timeframe, word count, and prompts is a great boost to ones authorial ego.  

At least to start with, I intend to make this a Iron Pen clone as far as format goes: four prompts, with points for how well they are employed, plus the four sets of technical criteria.  And yes, keep it short and to the point.  

As Iron Pen was Ankari's, another title for this challenge is probably in order.  So far, the one I have come up with is 'Steel Quill,' which seems a bit lacking.  I'm open to suggestions.

Yes, I have no issue with tossing in a $20 gift certificate for a prize now and again.

Publishing...is something for the future.  I'd suggest a group vote or poll for the best, but it will probably be a year before we get enough quality stories together to contemplate an anthology.  

I intend to post the first later this week, with a due date towards the end of March - maybe Easter weekend.  Right now, I'm thinking about asking for two additional judges.    April is a NaNo month, so I might have to hand it over to somebody else then.


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## Ireth (Feb 22, 2016)

ThinkerX said:


> As Iron Pen was Ankari's, another title for this challenge is probably in order.  So far, the one I have come up with is 'Steel Quill,' which seems a bit lacking.  I'm open to suggestions.



Silverquill? That's the first thing that came to my mind.


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## pischtoph (Feb 22, 2016)

Blood Quill or swillquill


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## Caged Maiden (Feb 23, 2016)

Okay, so since we're talking about specifically Iron Pen the reboot, ThinkerX, will you be consistently doing this exact format and on a monthly basis? My reason for seeking clarity is that I am probably at a point where I could run challenges every couple months, and I too have been sitting on ideas and inspiration, wondering whether they would find competitors. If I know what you are planning, I could alternatively run my own ideas from time to time and avoid stepping on your toes. I know that we've never really had a traffic jam that caused issues with simultaneous challenges, in that challenges of different formats and rules tend to appeal to different kinds of competitors (say, one is the score-dependent Iron Pen, and another idea may be like: write a story about this given subject and vote for your best with "thanks"). Anyways, like I said, I would consider running a few challenges this spring, just to again encourage the community to recapture the spirit of friendly competition and encouragement we've allowed to wane. But I don't want challenge hosts to feel in competition for participants. If we had some way to communicate a sort of tentative schedule, we might try to coordinate in some way, so we can support each other. I know one of the things I liked least about running a challenge was that I couldn't play the game. I'd love to be more active again in the challenges section, and as you're a consistent contestant as well, I'd love to have multiple hosts rotating and passing the baton, so we veteran frequenters of the challenge forum can play as much as we work


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## Chessie (Feb 23, 2016)

Maybe we could trade off months? I wouldn't mind hosting challenges either.


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## ThinkerX (Feb 23, 2016)

Caged - tell you what.  I'll PM you the list of prompts a day or two in advance to check on possible conflicts.  The technical items shouldn't be an issue.

Alternate months?  I remember we sometimes had two or three challenges going at the same time in the past.  I suppose it'll depend on their nature.  

I might have to put in for Mod powers.


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## Caged Maiden (Feb 23, 2016)

Thanks, yeah, I wasn't concerned with the subjects, really, as there's always room for repeating, but I meant that if you were doing it say, the first week of every month, I'd hold off until the third to post a new challenge or whatever. I know some folks in the past have mentioned how they were already in one challenge and couldn't take on a second. I just want to give the challenge section a chance to grow and thrive again, without overburdening the new folks who I hope to inspire, not overwhelm. 

Anyways, I'd love to just be in communication so we can get the challenges rolling again! I'll do the same for you, since you've stepped up to the plate to host challenges. If I do any big ones, I'll confirm with you that the timing is good so we aren't posting in the same week or something. Give folks a chance to breathe between fast and hard writing weeks, you know.


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## Trick (Feb 23, 2016)

I'd love to see an Iron Pen-esque challenge come back! With my schedule, I can't currently run a challenge but I could participate in some and judge others. (It feels odd to offer to judge, since I am not really qualified but I'm willing if I'm needed for it). 

I came up with one of my favorite stories for Iron Pen and the feedback turned it into a quality piece. The Paint a Thousand Word challenges were immensely helpful as well! The word count restriction exposed the flaws in my writing and really led to improvement.

Some thoughts. 

Maybe we should get away from synonyms for Iron Pen and call it something more separate, like Writer of the Month, or Mythic Scribe of the Month. 

If the site admin may want to do an anthology in future, I agree that it should be separate from the contest and, at a later date, the site admin can reach out to winners of one or multiple contests for permission to publish and that way the contests are free of that pressure. Basically, nothing in the contest(s) will be published without asking for and receiving written permission. 

Perhaps the first thread that could go up could be prompt submissions. ThinkerX, or whoever is running it that month, could choose the best three and add one of his own or something similar. It might be a cool way to get more people involved because many will follow the challenge even if they can't participate for lack of time and there might be more interest if simply submitting a prompt idea could make you a part of it. The person running the challenge could specify a theme to keep the prompts more doable but they wouldn't have to. And if your prompt is chosen, you could still participate. I don't think it would create an unfair advantage because everyone would have the same chance. 

If the challenges kept going into next year, I would happily run some of them as I will be done with my journey back through college by then!


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## Penpilot (Feb 23, 2016)

IMHO consistent challenges would be a great idea, but having a monthly challenge with full fledge short stories, that's a ton of work.

From my experience with writing groups, it can take me anywhere from 15 minutes to 1 hour to critique a 1000 words, so if a story was 5k, that can turn into a part-time job.

I don't want to be the one dragging in the icy fire hose, but I think if you want to start a consistent challenge up and have it continue, you should start small first. Instead of having it be monthly, have it be quarterly or bi-annually. That way it doesn't burn anyone out, and it makes it a somewhat special event.

As for anthologies and rights and fundraising, maybe set that aside for now. Get the challenge up an running consistently before worrying about that. Walk before you run, right?

I'm part of the article team here on Mythic Scirbes, and I was going to do something as an example in my next article that I think might work for starting up a new challenge.

I was going to do a section on scene design, where I was going to take a large list of plot elements and character information and show how one could design a short scene that naturally incorporates every singly plot element and all the character information.

I was going to try and do this with 500 words.

For the purposes of this challenge maybe 500-1000 words would work, with maybe 750 being a good splitting the difference starting point. Maybe there's bonus points for being able to do the challenge in the fewest words.

I think this would be a good starting point because for starters, each piece will be small, so easier on the judges. Also because of this, it'll encourage people to participate. And finally it's a skill builder, forcing people to really think about their word choices, and understand what's really fat and what's not.

Writing, editing, and judging 5k story is a big chunk to bite off. Writing, editing, and judging 500 word scene/story is a nice digestible size, hopefully nobody chokes on.

my 2 cents


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## Trick (Feb 23, 2016)

I don't disagree that a 5000 word story is a lot to write and judge and it definitely wouldn't have to be a monthly contest but I think a challenge to write a 1000 word story and one to write 5000 words are very different. They really should be different contests IMO. What if there were three months with a 1000 word contest and then the fourth month would have a 5000 word contest that would be announced early enough? They could be related or separate.


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## T.Allen.Smith (Feb 23, 2016)

As someone who ran 6 months of a challenge, I'll add some perspective.

At the peak of the Paint a Thousand Words challenge, I had near a dozen entries in one month. While thrilled the challenge was being so well received, it turned out to be a great deal of work. Considering I try to be as detailed and thorough in reviewing and grading submissions as possible, I'd reckon each review took me 1 to 1 1/2 hours to complete. Further, those were all stories of 1,000 words or less. If we're talking 5k word stories (which was the upper limit of Iron Pen) and 12 entries, that's reviewing and grading a novel-sized work every entry period. That's a ton of work for one person to take on repeatedly.

Now, to be blunt. We have many writers of varying ability and experience. That is good for this community and it is good for any challenge. Seeing regular contributors grow and mature as writers is especially rewarding to a challenge host. However, anyone who runs a challenge needs to be aware that not all submissions will be well written. Not all entries will be engaging. Some of that may come down to personal taste, but most depends on the skill and experience of the entrant. At times, judging can feel a tedious chore. I don't say this to demean the contributors, but rather, to shift perspective. 

Reading stories that need a lot of work and revision, for months on end, can start to feel like a burden. That was my experience and it's one reason I put Paint a Thousand Words on hold...well, that and I needed to knock the novel's draft out. Yes, it was a time sink, but it also developed into a chore. And, as I mentioned before, it was also rewarding. Still, considering my experience, I feel the idea of rotating the challenge host is a solid one. That should alleviate host burnout as well as keep the challenge fresh.

Another consideration, from a different angle. Contributors only want to hear a judge like me talk about multi-layered description, "to be" verbs, & passive voice for so long. After a time, it may feel repetitive and myopic. A rotation of pre-scheduled hosts would help keep things fresh for all involved.


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## Heliotrope (Feb 23, 2016)

I don't have much new to say other than that I joined the site to participate in some challenges, and since I did Legendary Sidekicks jerk challenge there haven't been any more  

I would love to participate. I'm with Nimue though, on that publication scares me. I'm trying to focus most of my energy on Blackbeard, but I would love to do challenges to stretch myself and take risks.


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## Devor (Feb 24, 2016)

I don't care about an anthology.  Consider it dropped.

I agree with some of the others, I think rotating hosts is a really important idea.  I'm super-glad that ThinkerX brought this thread up and wants to do this.  I just think it's better if he doesn't have to do it alone just because Ankari did.  We can get more scribes chipping in and keep it going and growing for the long haul.

Silver Quill and names like it remind me too much of Iron Pen.  I think a bigger break would be a good idea.  How about: _Scribe Battles._


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## ThinkerX (Feb 24, 2016)

Unless somebody comes up with something better, the name I'm leaning towards now is:

'Top Scribe'

I'll probably post the opening thread Friday, with a deadline before Easter.


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## Ireth (Feb 24, 2016)

Battle of the Bards?


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## ThinkerX (Feb 24, 2016)

'Battle of the Bards' sounds more like a musical than a writing competition.


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## Heliotrope (Feb 25, 2016)

Scribal wars
War of the words
Mythic battles


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## ThinkerX (Feb 25, 2016)

> Scribal wars
> War of the words
> Mythic battles



Seem a bit militant to me.  

'Scribal Wars' could work.  Not keen on it, but...

'War of the Words' - nah. Sounds almost like the word games my daughter plays.

'Mythic Battles' lacks the writing element.


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## Devor (Feb 25, 2016)

He's an idea I just want to throw out there.

The only other forum that I spend any time at is a site called Hearthpwn, a fan site for Blizzard's Hearthstone game.  They have a weekly "Fan Card Creation" challenge, and the winner gets to:

 - Pick the theme for a future challenge

 - Have their card hosted in a winners thread

 - Put their avatar in a cool frame to show off their victory









I think we could do all three.  The winner could pitch in the details for a future prompt.  We could start a winners-story thread (because some people just want to see and read the winners).  And a custom winners' avatar frame wouldn't be too hard to come up with.  If we can't get a resident artist to volunteer, we could commission one for maybe about $30.

Anyways, I just thought I'd put that out there.


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## T.Allen.Smith (Feb 25, 2016)

I like those ideas, especially the avatar frame. 

Also, I'd like to thank ThinkerX for bringing this topic to the fore. The challenges here have been successful & it's a feature many members love. 

ThinkerX,
Even if we do something like rotating hosts for each submission period, would you be willing and available to run the contest overall & take the host role for any periods where a guest host is unavailable? 

The reason I ask comes from my experience as a host trying to recruit judges every month. That was near impossible considering I tried to recruit mainly from established & long term members. I can't help but think that, on occasion, we'll run into the same issue with hosts.


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## Steerpike (Feb 25, 2016)

Another option, to take some load off of judges, is that everyone who enters the challenge has to read and comment on the other entries, then vote via PM. That's the way I ran them on another site and it worked well.


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## Trick (Feb 25, 2016)

Steerpike said:


> Another option, to take some load off of judges, is that everyone who enters the challenge has to read and comment on the other entries, then vote via PM. That's the way I ran them on another site and it worked well.



Does that mean the votes determine the winner absolutely or does the judge(s) still have final say? I'd hate to run into a popular/electoral vote conflict situation...


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## Steerpike (Feb 25, 2016)

Trick said:


> Does that mean the votes determine the winner absolutely or does the judge(s) still have final say? I'd hate to run into a popular/electoral vote conflict situation...



We just used the vote. Everyone submitted their choices for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place. Some forums also do it with a mechanism that makes the story posting anonymous.


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## Trick (Feb 25, 2016)

Steerpike said:


> We just used the vote. Everyone submitted their choices for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place. Some forums also do it with a mechanism that makes the story posting anonymous.



I like the idea but I think one thing that is missing is the judge feedback. To me, that is the most valuable part of the challenge. It's one thing to post in showcase and get some help. That's great but it doesn't have the same affect as the contest. First, we are made to write something sometimes outside our comfort zone, which is good. We are competing, making us do our very best. And then, our worst flaws stand out best and can be more easily spotted by the judge(s) and we get feedback that is very worthwhile.

Perhaps a combo of the two would work. There could be a popular winner and a judge winner. If one person gets both, they could get a special title or something. 

Name possibilites:

The Write Race (with medals awarded for 1st, 2nd & 3rd)

Scribal Chief

Double Scribble (everyone competing could submit two 500-1000w stories into the same contest)

Mighty Writer

Quite Write (I'm a nerd)

Inkmancer


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## Steerpike (Feb 25, 2016)

Trick,

As I mentioned, this format requires everyone to critique and comment. So instead of comments from one judge you get them from many.


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## Devor (Feb 25, 2016)

Trick said:


> I like the idea but I think one thing that is missing is the judge feedback. To me, that is the most valuable part of the challenge. It's one thing to post in showcase and get some help. That's great but it doesn't have the same affect as the contest. First, we are made to write something sometimes outside our comfort zone, which is good. We are competing, making us do our very best. And then, our worst flaws stand out best and can be more easily spotted by the judge(s) and we get feedback that is very worthwhile.



Yeah, I agree with this.  I think switching to a vote might be something that works, if we have to, but I think it's ultimately a weaker challenge to drop having judges. The feedback, the rubric, it's all a pretty big part of the experience.  I also don't think there would be enough people voting on each challenge to really gain any of the benefits of having a vote.  In my experience, if there's only a small number of people voting, it can actually feel less fair.


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## ThinkerX (Feb 25, 2016)

> ThinkerX,
> Even if we do something like rotating hosts for each submission period, would you be willing and available to run the contest overall & take the host role for any periods where a guest host is unavailable?



I'm not exactly a globe trotting traveler (one short trip to the states last year), but summer is on the busier side for me and I have writing projects lined up for the NaNo months.  For the NaNo months (April, June, November) I was either going to put the project on hold or try to find another host.  Rest of the time I should be available.



> - Pick the theme for a future challenge
> 
> - Have their card hosted in a winners thread
> 
> ...



Could work.  Have to give that some thought.



> Another option, to take some load off of judges, is that everyone who enters the challenge has to read and comment on the other entries, then vote via PM. That's the way I ran them on another site and it worked well.



We did something like this with one of Phil the Drill's challenges - or rather I thought the whole PM thing rather limited, so I did a critique of the other contestants stories, and everybody else followed suite.  I'd make it a regular thread - possibly part of the judge thread, with non-contestant judges as well.  This way, all of the aspiring authors get to know what others think of their tales.  



> Name possibilites:
> 
> The Write Race (with medals awarded for 1st, 2nd & 3rd)
> 
> ...



'Inkmancer' has possibilities.  Kind of ties in my mind with 'Top Scribe.'


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## Caged Maiden (Feb 26, 2016)

I just want to say I LOVE the idea of having a special avatar border/ graphics for the winners. It'd be like a Nano halo! I mean...I wore mine with pride when I donated. I might have to change my signature to say: Will write for avatar halo...


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## Trick (Feb 26, 2016)

Trick said:


> Name possibilites:
> 
> The Write Race (with medals awarded for 1st, 2nd & 3rd)



I'm really glad that I mentioned the medals because I was making a play on "The Rat Race" without realizing that it sounded like 'the right race'.... of course, there is no such thing. For as many puns as the word 'race' has given us, maybe it's time for a contest of speed to be called something else... hehe


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## Penpilot (Feb 26, 2016)

Some names for the challenge that came to mind.

The Cutting Quill.

Alphabet Cook Off.

Master Scribe.

Mythic Story Cook

The Summoning of Somewhat Unconventional Scriveners


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## Devor (Feb 26, 2016)

The Internet's Next Top Scribe

Cutthroat Quills

Thinker's Scribal Games

Myth Impossible

ThinkerX's Big Scribble

The Great Scribal Race

Wonder of Words Challenge

Writtoff! with ThinkerX


I'm . . . . reading names off the Food Network.  Still!  Good names.  Good names.


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## Steerpike (Feb 26, 2016)

Top Scribes
Mythic Scribbles
You Wish You Were This Good

etc.


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## Ireth (Feb 26, 2016)

Devor said:


> The Internet's Next Top Scribe
> 
> Cutthroat Quills
> 
> ...



Don't forget Scribbled!



Spoiler: in case it wasn't obvious



Chopped. Love that show.


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## ThinkerX (Feb 26, 2016)

'Chopped' was Ankari's original title for 'Iron Pen.'


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## T.Allen.Smith (Feb 26, 2016)

Someone before said, "Inkmancer".

I like that as a starting point. It fits well with the genre and is "writerly" at the same time.


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## Devor (Feb 27, 2016)

T.Allen.Smith said:


> Someone before said, "Inkmancer".
> 
> I like that as a starting point. It fits well with the genre and is "writerly" at the same time.



I don't know if any of these are any good, but here's a few with Inkmancer as a base:

The Inkmancer Challenge

Rise of the Inkmancer

The Inkmancer Writeoff

The Inkmancer Summoning

Culling of the Inkmancers

Spells of the Inkmancer


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## ThinkerX (Feb 27, 2016)

Have to keep it short and snappy.  

I almost went with 'Inkmancer.'  I still might.  After all, 'Iron Pen' was originally 'Chopped.'

Important thing is to get people writing.


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## T.Allen.Smith (Feb 27, 2016)

ThinkerX said:


> Important thing is to get people writing.



Agreed. /10char


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