# East Asian Magic?



## Devor (Mar 21, 2012)

A story I'm working on draws a lot from the mythologies of Japan, China, some of the surrounding regions, and a little from India.  But I'm having trouble finding anything that looks like a person performing magic.  I'm finding a lot with spirits, gods, martial arts, shapeshifters, and fortune telling, much of which I'll use.  But I'm having trouble finding anything that looks like a wizard or a witch, or a magic weapon, or some of the other magical concepts you would expect to see with western fantasy stories.  Am I missing them or are they just not there?  Aside from martial arts, what kind of magic would you expect to see in a far East fantasy?


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## The Blue Lotus (Mar 21, 2012)

in India you have to sift through the mythology to find what you want


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## JCFarnham (Mar 21, 2012)

If you're having trouble finding magic in a western sense, then that'll be because you're looking at the east after all 

(In Japan at least) I'm under the impression it's not so much magic and wizards and so on as it is religious and traditional ceremony. There is plenty of magic doing in pop culture and anime, either related to concepts of ki or not, but I've always wondered whether that's just a western influence (there is a lot of it around in Japan after all...)

There's quite a bit of literature from the areas you're researching, being that (roughly speaking) print was pioneered there.

I haven't done any serious research into this I'll admit, so don't take a word I've said as true until you've looked in to it haha I'm just hoping to give you a little bit of direction.


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## Queshire (Mar 21, 2012)

the table top role playing game "Legend of the Five Rings" deals with a heavily eastern inspired setting and has an easy to understand magic system, so I suggest taking a look at that. 

One thing I really suggest you take a look at is Onmyodo, Onmyodo - Television Tropes & Idioms these are the Japanese spell caster, most often known for their use of Ofuda, rectanglular pieces of paper with spells written on them, and Shikigami, or familiars often summoned from pieces of paper.

I also suggest looking at the manga Kekkeishi and Nurarihyon No Mago.

I suggest doing something with the idea of Kami, the idea that everything, litterally everything, has a spirit or god associated with it, and perhaps if you could talk to that spirit you could get it to do what you want.

Oh, also I like the idea of Tsukomogami (I think  that's how it's spelt) which is a group of monsters that are living objects that come to life after 100 years. If the object was treated nicely then the tsukomogami is nice, while if the object was treated poorly then the tsukomogami will be evil.

There's A LOT of magic in Asia, admittedly, it might not be magic as we think of it in the western world, but if you can't find any you're not looking that hard.


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## Devor (Mar 21, 2012)

Thanks Queshire for the post.

I've already got the Kami, and I don't think the Tsukumogami would fit in my story.  

I also saw the Onmyodo on wikipedia, but I didn't realize it was anything near a trope.  I missed the Ofuda entirely.  Thanks for pointing me to those, they should be very helpful.

I'll take a quick look at Legend of the Five Rings.  But I don't have the time to look into a manga and figure out what's historical against what might be limited to their story.  What in particular did you want to recommend about them?

Does anyone know of examples from outside of Japan?  Or any magical items?


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## San Cidolfus (Mar 21, 2012)

Just butting in here, but if the Legend of the Five Rings is based on the Book of Five Rings, then it probably doesn't have much to do with the historical interpretation of 'magic' in Japan.  The Five Rings is Miyamoto Musashi's teachings on styles of swordsmanship.  It's a fighting treatise.


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## Queshire (Mar 21, 2012)

I don't really think it has much in common with the book of five rings besides the name really... It isn't a historical account of japanese magic by any account, but it's good inspiration and frankly easier to understand then most uses of japanese magic. 

I don't have anything specific to suggest from those mangas, Kekkeishi features a lot of different powers which has a good eastern theme, while Nuraihyon (I think that's how it's spelled) is about the japanese monsters or Yokai which inspire a writer.

Speaking of Japanese monsters, though this is a bit off topic for this specific thread, here: The Obakemono Project ~ Introduction is a good site for looking up various types of Japanese monsters.

I don't know as much about outside of Japan but...

China featured a cosmology of a celestial beuracracy, which is a litteral beuracracy controlling stuff like weather and such, I don't know if it ever actually happened in real life, but in several stories, there's a type of beuracratic magic, by filling out the write forms and paying the right fees you could move rivers and such.

I don't remember where exactly it's from, I think India but I'm not sure, about magical weapons made by the gods that could be summoned by reciting a certain prayer, including one weapon that was the magical equivilant of a nuke.


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## Devor (Mar 25, 2012)

Thanks, Queshire.  I just found the Celestial Bureaucracy online, pretty weird stuff.


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## Melissa G. McPhail (Mar 26, 2012)

Magic in the east is more along the lines of mysticism than european wizardry as far as I could find in my own research.  

The Bhagavad Gita and the Mahabharata are two epic stories (and important religious texts) that may provide you some insight into Hindu mysticism.  

The early Chinese emperors had mystics in their court who were rumored to do amazing things (levitation, mind-reading, reading of the future), but again, this is all along the line of mysticism.  I've never heard of the east having magic in their culture the way we've gained or developed it in the west, beginning with the Arabic Djinn and evolving through Merlin into the myriad concepts of magic we have today.


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## Devor (Mar 26, 2012)

Melissa G. McPhail said:


> Magic in the east is more along the lines of mysticism than european wizardry as far as I could find in my own research.



Thanks.  That's what I'm coming to understand.  I've already found ways to incorporate the gods, spirits and creatures of the region, as well as the basic philosophical concepts found in Buddhism, Taoism and Shintoism.  I know almost nothing about Hinduism, except that there's a huge overlap between many of these religions.

So never mind spells.  What about magical items?


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## Queshire (Mar 26, 2012)

There definitely were magical items. Off the top of my head, I can think of the Japanese imperial regalia, and there was like a cask thing that turned you into an old man or vise versa. I think that the important thing is that magical items weren't made, at least not by humans. They were given by gods, or found in the corpses of monsters, or were normal items that became magical as their age and legend increased.


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## JCFarnham (Mar 26, 2012)

Try searching out some local folklore. If you're willing to push through the rubbish you could find on the internet (book research or not) you'll be sure to find plenty of interesting things.

In my Urban Fantasy series, I'm pulling a lot from various Folklores and Mythologys, and twisting them to fit my vision of "Fae" as needed for my stories. That being said I'm trying to say as true as possible to the feel of original tales. It takes a while to find something useful about a particular creature, spirit, or being, but its worth it. While I've yet to find many eastern, I have started to come across tales regarding magical items, like selkie pelts and the caps of creatures like redcaps and leprecaun-types. 

The household objects coming to life after a century or so has already been mentioned (and there are a number of other versions of that myth) but what I'm trying to say is that I'd be very surprised if there wasn't more out in the way of tales of magical things there in your area of interest.


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## The Blue Lotus (Mar 26, 2012)

Devor said:


> Thanks.  That's what I'm coming to understand.  I've already found ways to incorporate the gods, spirits and creatures of the region, as well as the basic philosophical concepts found in Buddhism, Taoism and Shintoism.  I know almost nothing about Hinduism, except that there's a huge overlap between many of these religions.
> 
> So never mind spells.  What about magical items?



They are embedded into the stories of the Hindu religion. 
For example the elixer of Immortality. You can google Vishnu and the turtle Kuma to find that story. Or go to the showcase and look up my "chapter 1" I added it because it was a cool story.

There are many like that where an object or relic will be mentioned in passing, I think the reason for this is because religious stories the focus is on the Deity, and the acts preformed. 

Many of them read a lot like very Asop fables. You could try reading the Gita but I have read it about 20 times along with the the Mathbharata and I can't recall any "items" that might be of help.

However... I was not looking too hard. Here is a link that may assit you. 

Sacred-Texts: Hinduism


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## Devor (Mar 30, 2012)

Queshire said:


> There definitely were magical items. Off the top of my head, I can think of the Japanese imperial regalia, and there was like a cask thing that turned you into an old man or vise versa. I think that the important thing is that magical items weren't made, at least not by humans. They were given by gods, or found in the corpses of monsters, or were normal items that became magical as their age and legend increased.



That definitely seems to be true in Japan, do you know if it's as true in China and India?

Also, I can't seem to find much about what kind of magical properties the Imperial Regalia possess.  I saw one reference about the sword having power over the wind, but not much else.  Do you happen to know?


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## mirrorrorrim (Mar 30, 2012)

Just a quick reply, but have you looked into Korea at all? Their traditional religion features female shamans, who could speak with the gods and nature. I'm not sure if that's exactly what you're looking for, but I think it gets pretty close.

For most Eastern religions, there didn't seem to be "magic users", per se, but instead those who had influence over the various gods and spirits, which were all-prevalent. Dragons were particularly influential, but there were all sorts.

Also, ancient Chinese kings practiced divination with oracle bones, which I suppose could be considered a type of "magic".

I hope this helps a little!


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## JCFarnham (Mar 30, 2012)

China and Japan are surprisingly linked in terms of language, mythology, all sorts really, even though it may indeed be one or the other imposing their tales on conquered peoples. For example, religions across Asian share numerous bits and pieces. I haven't specifically studied China, but I do know they have concepts I've always associated with Japan but named slightly differently, with a slight twist, or added "whatsit".

That probably wasn't useful per se, but again I just wanted to weigh in haha


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## Queshire (Mar 30, 2012)

Fun fact: The relationship between China and Japan was basically because of Japan extensively copying China's culture when they were at their strongest. No imposing culture on a conquered people, just a smaller culture basing themselves on a more technologically advanced and overally more powerful nation.


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## JCFarnham (Mar 30, 2012)

Queshire said:


> Fun fact: The relationship between China and Japan was basically because of Japan extensively copying China's culture when they were at their strongest. No imposing culture on a conquered people, just a smaller culture basing themselves on a more technologically advanced and overally more powerful nation.



I always figured as much, but didn't want to say. Just look at Japan before and after extensive contact with the west ...


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## Queshire (Mar 30, 2012)

Now, I don't know the specific powers of the imperial regalia, but I do know the legend, the sword was found in the tail of Orochi, while the other two were hung on a tree and used to lure the sun goddess out of the cave she had hid herself in. Now considering the sun wouldn't rise without a sun goddess, that's pretty damn important.


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## Devor (Mar 30, 2012)

mirrorrorrim said:


> Just a quick reply, but have you looked into Korea at all?



I skimmed through Korea.  And Burma, Taiwan, and a few others.  That's when I decided the research was getting more tedious than the story requires.  I'm not intending to implement the real-world cultures of Asia anywhere nearly as close as I've tried to implement the Norse religions in another work.

So far, speaking a little vaguely, my "system" includes:

 - 6 Gods, divided into three pairs, with each god based on an animal and given a different role in the world.
 - System for past lives and karma.
 - Merger of the _Kami_ spirit world with the concept of _Chi_, so that chi flows in all things but can pool or be harnessed, either in the body or in the environment, sometimes creating a spirit.
 - Ecology based loosely on Tibet, with unique animals loosely inspired by Japanese spirits.
 - Total butchering of the Toa philosophies into a relatively similar but unique philosophy of my own.
 - 3-Pronged clergy system, loosely inspired by Buddhism, Tao and Shinto religions, encompassing fortune telling.
 - Uses for gold, cinnabar and jade in _implied_ magical or alchemical roles.
 - Gunpowder, in a quasi-magical form.

What I'm wondering is whether it's time to tie off the religious/magical system or if I'm missing anything.  I don't particularly need a "wizard," but shouldn't there be some kind of magical items?


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## Queshire (Mar 30, 2012)

hmmm.... maybe have the magical items be from a foreign country?


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