# Twelve Orders System of Magic



## Phietadix (Dec 5, 2012)

In my world there are twelve Orders of magic (or thirteen depending on who you ask). Each one corosponds to one of the twelve 'gods'(Really just mortals given godlike powers by the one acutual God for this world) so far I have come up with a couple of the orders.

The order of Creation. This allows the wizard to create something from nothing. It is very much like art and is limited only by what materials he can create (I haven't decided how that works yet) his imaignation and his skill. How it works is supposed to sort of like a mix between finger painting and scupting. The god of creation loves beauty and creativity and is gives magic power in exchange for some of the wizard's creations.

The Order of Science. The order of science will allow the wizard to see (and posibly change) things on a molecular level. They are also able to see the universe better then the hubble telescope posibly even from multipule angles. They are basicly like a very advanced science labertory inside a person. The god of Science is always wanting to learn new things, he gives magic in exchange for the dicoverys wizards make.

The Order of Nature. The order of nature allows wizards to make trees grow, make soil furtile, control the wheather and things like that. They can be very powerful in battle. the god of nature is always wanting the enviroment helped and repaired and will give others magic to aid this.

The order of the Elements. This order allows wizards to control fire, air, water, and earth. Mainly used for battle or near instant creation of fortresses. The god of the Elements is very warlike and will give magic in exchange for the wizard serving him as soilders.

It is posible to be a wizard in more than one order. I still need to figure what the other 8 orders should be. Also I have thought Telekinesis would be good. But can't decide what order it would go with. It isn't good enough for its own order. And I don't know what would go good with it. It is something many of the wizards of science are supposed to be able to do, but I don't think it should go in that order. I also need to decide whether or not to merge the orders of nature and the elements.


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## Shockley (Dec 5, 2012)

You could, of course, break your rather broad schools down.

 Lords of Magic had a fairly generic break down: life + death, fire + water, air + earth, chaos + order. Eight schools right there.


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## Phietadix (Dec 5, 2012)

I want rather broad schools of magic. Each has to unquie. the magic of each school being a different element isn't really what I want.

Also what would a wizard of Chaos/Order do?


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## Saigonnus (Dec 5, 2012)

In my way of thinking, if you are going to partition wizardry at all (like J.K. Rowling did with the houses at Hogwarts) than a wizard should be required to specialize in THAT order of magic. There could possibly be a bit of overlap with the skills available to the different orders of wizard. (Like an order of War using the element fire) The main reason I think of this is that each order would have its strengths and weaknesses when faced with the various circumstances that will arise in a book and it would offer the opportunity for more creative ways of facing them.

Say for example, the MCs are faced with trolls in Timrach's Fen and you have the wizard of the group trained as both the science AND elemental order; it would easy to use the cliche of fireballs vs. trolls. What if said wizard was only in the science order, what then? Use the sand beneath the water or close by to summon a magnifying glass? change the molecular arrangement of the sulfur in the water to make acid? What if he was in the nature order? Use the grass or tree limbs to bind them for a getaway? 

I think also that using something like this, a wizard who opts to leave an order of study for a new one may remember for a short time the abilities of the former, but would eventually lose the gifts.


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## Wanara009 (Dec 5, 2012)

Phietadix said:


> Also what would a wizard of Chaos/Order do?



Manipulation of probability and events based on logic, perhaps? Maybe an Order Wizard can toss a deck of cards in the air and it'll land in a neat numerically arranged pile (logical) while Chaos Wizard might cause a whale falling from the sky (illogical).



Phietadix said:


> I want rather broad schools of magic. Each has to unique. the magic of each school being a different element isn't really what I want.



Hmm... this is quite hard since the four you already mentioned are pretty inclusive already. The only thing that I could think of is Time (seeing into the past or future, manipulating the space-time continuum in small ways), Medium (calling upon supernatural djinn and/or spirit to do your bidding), and Abiogenesis (creation of fake life out of inanimate object, think golem and the like)


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## Phietadix (Dec 5, 2012)

Wanara009 said:


> Manipulation of probability and events based on logic, perhaps? Maybe an Order Wizard can toss a deck of cards in the air and it'll land in a neat numerically arranged pile (logical) while Chaos Wizard might cause a whale falling from the sky (illogical).
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm... this is quite hard since the four you already mentioned are pretty inclusive already. The only thing that I could think of is Time (seeing into the past or future, manipulating the space-time continuum in small ways), Medium (calling upon supernatural djinn and/or spirit to do your bidding), and Abiogenesis (creation of fake life out of inanimate object, think golem and the like)



To go along with the whale falling from the sky perhaps a potted plant that says "Oh no, not again"? (I'm sure someone will get this) 

Also I did consider a order of time. Time travel wouldn't be allowed but slowing down/speed up time for only the caster might work. Another idea I had for time was seeing into the past/seeing posible futures.

A couple more idea I had are the obvious order of healing. And I what called the order of Animation basicly Abiogenesis.

Mediums wouldn't be good in my opinion.

Also the only one order idea from Saigonnus's post will probably be used. And telekiniesis added to order of science.


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## wordwalker (Dec 5, 2012)

We've had another recent post on types of magic, with a lot of the same discussions about what types can be distinguished from what: http://mythicscribes.com/forums/world-building/6207-forms-magic.html

Here's one idea for how to handle multiple specializations:

A LARP (live-action game) I was in allowed wizards to specialize in either 1 or 2 (or, actually, all) of the schools of magic. The penalty was, you had to master a number of basic spells of *all* your schools before you could get into any of their next level of magic, so the more general mages rarely learned the advanced spells.


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## Phietadix (Dec 5, 2012)

This is a little off topic but how to you add a signature that apears at the bottom of your posts?


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## wordwalker (Dec 5, 2012)

See the Settings button at the top, then click Edit Signature on that page's My Settings left side.


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## Phietadix (Dec 5, 2012)

wordwalker said:


> See the Settings button at the top, then click Edit Signature on that page's My Settings left side.



Thanks

Also I am considering adding an order that allows you to increase your strengh, speed, etc. How well would that work in your opinion?


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## Wanara009 (Dec 5, 2012)

Phietadix said:


> A couple more idea I had are the obvious order of healing.



I would think that Healing would already be included in Order of Science. If you can rearrange matter at molecular level, what's stopping you at doing it on a living thing? After all, I would imagine manipulating biomass at cellular level would be less difficult than rearranging molecules. It'll also put some kind of a nice twist on your magic, where the way it is used can differ according to the variables it is applied on.

I actually have this kind of magic in my project, known as Flesh/Biomass-Crafting (there's a version for inorganic matter called Matter/Inorganic-Crafting). They are basically surgeons that can treat biomass as if they are wet clay. Say you have a broken bone, they can simply reattach and sculpt it back to its original shape. They can also use it for harm if they are creative enough.


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## krunchee (Dec 6, 2012)

Wanara009 said:


> I would think that Healing would already be included in Order of Science. If you can rearrange matter at molecular level, what's stopping you at doing it on a living thing? After all, I would imagine manipulating biomass at cellular level would be less difficult than rearranging molecules. It'll also put some kind of a nice twist on your magic, where the way it is used can differ according to the variables it is applied on.
> 
> I actually have this kind of magic in my project, known as Flesh/Biomass-Crafting (there's a version for inorganic matter called Matter/Inorganic-Crafting). They are basically surgeons that can treat biomass as if they are wet clay. Say you have a broken bone, they can simply reattach and sculpt it back to its original shape. They can also use it for harm if they are creative enough.





To that end wouldn't science cover all things? Manipulation of fire, water etc etc. As well as the earth and so force covered in nature?


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## Wanara009 (Dec 6, 2012)

krunchee said:


> To that end wouldn't science cover all things? Manipulation of fire, water etc etc. As well as the earth and so force covered in nature?



Well, I think so... except fire. Fire is not molecules but chemical reaction that let out light and heat energy. So I would imagine that you need a branch of magic that manipulate energy to do that. And even then, you won't make 'real' fire, just a mimicry made out of light and heat.

From what I've read from the original post, Order of Science simply rearrange molecules and its bond without the limits of mundane chemical reaction (like turning charcoal into diamond). Moving things means you're imposing kinetic energy on the molecule, so I would think that a branch that deal with the manipulation of forces and energy would also be appropriate. Sort of a distaff counterpart of the matter-manipulating Order of Science.


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## shangrila (Dec 6, 2012)

I think the Order of Elements is unnecessary. Wind control could easily fall under Nature, as could earth to an extent (maybe vines growing to abnormal sizes and pushing up the soil? Or hell, why not just have them be able to move the tectonic plates?). Water, well, that can be manipulated through moving soil to change rivers, moving the moon to change tides, etc, so that could perhaps get it's own order (maybe an Order of Gravity or something). Fire could be linked to friction or temperature, or just the ability to energise atoms. Maybe an Order of Temperature, allowing the user to both speed up (create fire) and slow down (freeze) atoms. Might make a good Yin-Yang analogy too.


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## wordwalker (Dec 6, 2012)

Again, a lot of ideas have been tossed around in the Forms of Magic thread.

The trick is defining different orders as affecting specific things, and maybe spicing it up with some that affect similar things but find it harder (probably not impossible) to do it in different ways. For instance:

Most of these affect the physical, so yes, arguably they could all be called "science" or "nature." But what if Science means controlling a thing to reshape it and/or change its composition (or it's only that, and called Transmutation) but it's so precise it doesn't usually work fast or on large objects, while Nature reshapes only materials that are in more or less their natural state but can do it faster and on a larger scale, plus it's easier to use it to strengthen nature than to warp it too far. Or Creation, the only one that brings raw matter out of nothingness.

Maybe Flesh-shaping/ Healing/ Strengthening is a separate order, if the others can't affect flesh (or can't do it as easily). Or it might be all part of the Science or Nature, but only the most empathic people are especially good at its healing spells and the bravest at Strengthening.

Maybe Force (telekinesis)/ War is its own order, maybe it's part of the others; fire, cold, and lightning might be in one or the other. But part of a warlike order or study within an order is probably spells that can be cast faster than others.

There could be other purpose-oriented orders, like a Protection order with similar but specialized spells to Force.

And, we haven't said as much about spells that easy to contrast with all of these: those in the mind, spirit, knowledge, or dimensional/teleport fields...


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## Phietadix (Dec 6, 2012)

wordwalker said:


> Again, a lot of ideas have been tossed around in the Forms of Magic thread.
> 
> The trick is defining different orders as affecting specific things, and maybe spicing it up with some that affect similar things but find it harder (probably not impossible) to do it in different ways. For instance:
> 
> ...



Sort of like I was thinking really. Sure a Wizard of Science could do most of these things. But it would take him forever to do it. For example, he could proabably turn a rock or something into iron and eventually craft it into a sword, but it would take him hours if not days. A wizard of Creation could make the same sword in a few seconds. Same with healing, A wizard of science might be able to heal a would eventually but not as effienctly as a wizard of healing.


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## psychotick (Dec 7, 2012)

Hi,

Wizards of science? Sounds really weird to me. A clash. But perhaps you should look to Arcanum. A dozen or more different schools of magic, each with its own five spells. But for extra schools I might suggest: 

'Dimension' ie space altering spells that allow you to teleport, move quickly, shrink or grow in size.
'Time' i.e. speed things up, slow them down, maybe age things and freeze them.
I'd seperate the elements out into air, earth , fire, water etc. After each 'school' could have a huge repertoire of spells.
Then maybe chuck in 'spirit', i.e. spells of mind control, mental illusion etc.
'Light' great for blinding people, lasers, invisibility and optical illusions.
'Lightning', why should fire have all the fun?
'Summoning, several different types of critters to be called forth, undead, things from other worlds, and animals.

And so on.

Cheers, Greg.


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## Phietadix (Dec 7, 2012)

psychotick said:


> Hi,
> 
> Wizards of science? Sounds really weird to me. A clash. But perhaps you should look to Arcanum. A dozen or more different schools of magic, each with its own five spells. But for extra schools I might suggest:
> 
> ...



Dimension sounds good. Your ideas for Time are interesting, but I'll proabably stick to mine, speeding up/slowing down time for the caster and seeing the past and to a slight degree the future. I like your idea for 'Light'. Lightning already falls under the nature order. Summoning, since it requires bringing things from other worlds, will proabably be left out, things moving between worlds is more a thing of rumors in my world than common occurence.

Thanks for your ideas


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## wordwalker (Dec 8, 2012)

The basic checklist I use for magic systems is, how do power groups divide up (or refuse to touch some of):


physical-- reshaping (or creating) matter, from solid to wind
energy-- telekinesis, fire, cold, etc
mind/spirit-- reading, controlling, illusions, necromancy
dimensions-- teleport, space distortion, worldgates, and just maybe time

(And I try not to forget, all of these may imply detection and enhance/interfere aspects of themselves: seeing across distances might be Dimension, an Energy master might make a fire-enhancing wand or firespell-absorbing prison cell, and so on.)

This breakdown is a little dull for me to actually use in a book. But I keep it as a checklist for what a system might be leaving out, in however it reshuffles them.


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## Addison (Dec 31, 2012)

The way you're describing your current orders sounds like the classes of magic at Redhurst and Wizard 101. In Redhurst they have eight schools of magic: transfiguration, abjuration(shields and what not), conjuration, enchantment, evocation, necromancy, divination, and illusion. Each school requires, and is drawn to, magickers of certain personalities. 

The same goes for Wizard 101. They have eight schools as well: Death, Life, Fire, Ice, Lightning, Myth, Balance are the ones you first see. But apparently there's also a cosmic magic (from the stars and all that).  Each school gives different magic and has a test to see what school you fit in. Each school has different personality draws. 

Another way to look at Orders for your world is to look at your life. One time my friends and I got together to write one story, all of us writing one, and we based each magic to the cliques at school. Goths were necromancers, Jocks were battle mages, geeks were alchemists, nerds were transmuters...see where I'm going. And there's no such thing as losing a label in adult hood. You can still be smart, athletic, etc but in adult hood you discover more parts of life so the components of the 'cliques' expands.


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## Mindfire (Jan 1, 2013)

Okay, I looked over the forum, and this is how I'd organize the orders and ideas you've gotten so far, plus some thoughts of my own.

First, your "Order of Science" kinda confuses me. How can you have magical science? I'd personally give it a different name like: *the Order of Substance*. It would encompass the knowledge, understanding, and manipulation of matter and the laws of the material world from the rarest molecule to the furthest star. Wizards who practice the Order of Substance are not necessarily constrained by the laws of physics, but they understand them impeccably. There is are some physical laws they cannot transcend however, such as the Laws of Thermodynamics. A Wizard of Substance cannot create matter or energy out of nothing, only transfer or convert them. Every act using the Order of Substance requires energy from _somewhere_ to accomplish it, which is the school's largest limitation. They also cannot create life, since (it is assumed for the sake of this creative exercise) life does not consist solely of tangible matter. The God of Substance could be seen as the god of ultimate knowledge, craftsmanship, and the ultimate source of all energy.

*The Order of Creation*, in my view, could stand in contrast to the Order of Substance in that while Substance deals with things material and tangible, Creation deals with things immaterial and intangible. Because the Order of Creation is, in essence, the order of _creativity_. It is the order of the things that are pleasurable, wise, or strong, but cannot necessarily be touched or seen. It is the order of thoughts, feelings, art, beauty, music, and values. Through this order of magic, wizards can read and influence the minds and hearts of others, and imprint their own thoughts and feelings onto reality. Lesser imprints manifest as vague feelings, sounds, or sensations, stronger ones as ghostly apparitions or phantoms, and wizards capable of especially powerful imprints can outright think or feel things fully into existence. As the Order of Creation is the order of _creativity,_ it's limitation is the imagination and will of the user. However, this order also cannot create true life, because any animate thing it produces is tethered to the mind of the one who produced it. (See Aule's creation of the Dwarves in Tolkien's writings.) The God of Creation is a patron of the arts, a lover of music, and perhaps a comforter of mankind, the god most likely to take positive interest in mortal affairs.

*The Order of Time* would be next. It is neither material nor immaterial. It is the order that concerns visions, dreams, shadows of things that have been, that are, and that are yet to come. It is the order of history and prophecy. Of counsel, wisdom, preparation, and foresight. It's users are able to pull back the temporal veil and receive visions of events past, present, and future. They are also able to alter the perception of time both in them and others. While not time travel, this allows them impossibly quick reflexes and battle precognition. Extremely powerful wizards of Time can even appear in multiple places simultaneously or experience time at such a quick rate that others seem not to move at all. They can also alter their apparent age at will. A wizard of Time is more useful as an adviser or spy than a warrior however. This order's greatest limitation is the experience of the user, for without experience, the visions and dreams are difficult to reliably interpret and the powers are difficult to control. The God of Time could be seen as a distant god of wisdom, patience, and omniscience, but also one content to let mortals learn from their own mistakes rather than warning them in most circumstances.

*The Order of Vitality* (as I renamed your Order of Nature) is concerned with all life and it's nurturing. Wild or domestic, plant or animal. The Order of Vitality allows its users to hasten the development of a life form (e.g.g transform a seed into a fully grown tree) to enhance a fully grown life form (transform a small dog into a giant mastiff), to diagnose and heal diseases and injuries, and to exert influence over not only life itself but that which is needed for it to flourish such as soil, sun, and weather. An exceptionally powerful wizard of this order could summon great thunderstorms, or transform midwinter into spring. Wizards of this order are limited in two ways: they cannot bring life out of nothing or out of unliving matter. There must be a "seed" to work with. Also, they cannot control life, only influence it. After you transform that baby lizard into a dragon, good luck telling it what to do. The God of Vitality would be caring and parental, but also capricious and forgetful, destructive but without malice, mimicking nature itself.

*The Order of Fate *(ironically) gives the power over things that _cannot be foreseen_. It is concerned with possibilities, coincidences, chaos, luck, chance, choice, accidents, cause and effect. It is the subtlest of all the orders. The movements of a wizard of Fate are obscured even to the eyes of a wizard of Time because they do not affect reality directly, but indirectly, altering the unseen web of probability and circumstance to their advantage. They are the essence of superstition, chaos made flesh, fortune and misfortune incarnate. For this reason, they are the wizards most adept at countering a wizard of Time: a wizard of Fate cannot truly be predicted. At least, not with any accuracy. In order to use their powers effectively, the mind of a wizard of Fate must be flexible and open to change. A rigid mind will break if it attempts to touch the web of chance, because as you push the web it also pushes back. The God of Fate could be seen as a trickster, unpredictable, chaotic even, but not evil. He would be the champion of free will and choice to counterbalance the stoic determinism implied by the powers of the God of Time and his order of magic. 



These five are so all-encompassing that I'm not sure how you'd come up with an additional seven without diving headfirst into tired tropes. If you're wondering why "elements" didn't show up on my list, it's because I think the powers you attribute to "elements" could easily be divided up between "vitality/nature" and "substance/science", so there's really no need for it. If I think of any other orders/gods I'll do another post.


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## Phietadix (Jan 11, 2013)

All your Ideas above are good, much more organized then what i had come up with already. Now I have come up the the 6th order.

*The Order of Animation* The wizards of animation basicly have the power of moving things, they have telekeineses and also their main ability. They can 'animate' objects, their magic takes an increidible amount of time and training to do, but they can 'progarm' obejects to do certain things. For example, A wizard of Animation could 'progarm' a tree to swing it's branch and do it over and over again, basicly turning it into a brach swinging robot, if they spend enough time they could make an something ent, even with Artificial intelligence. Their main limitation is they have no contol over things that can think for their own. They can not cause armys to start fighting each other or control animals. Their other limitation is that there magic takes a long time to work for anything besides bacic telekeineses.


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## Mindfire (Jan 11, 2013)

Phietadix said:


> All your Ideas above are good, much more organized then what i had come up with already. Now I have come up the the 6th order.
> 
> *The Order of Animation* The wizards of animation basicly have the power of moving things, they have telekeineses and also their main ability. They can 'animate' objects, their magic takes an increidible amount of time and training to do, but they can 'progarm' obejects to do certain things. For example, A wizard of Animation could 'progarm' a tree to swing it's branch and do it over and over again, basicly turning it into a brach swinging robot, if they spend enough time they could make an something ent, even with Artificial intelligence. Their main limitation is they have no contol over things that can think for their own. They can not cause armys to start fighting each other or control animals. Their other limitation is that there magic takes a long time to work for anything besides bacic telekeineses.



This is a good idea! But you might consider expanding it into the *The Order of Enchantment*. This order would be concerned with infusing magic into the physical world, combining magic with matter in a predictable and practical way. They are not theorists like wizards of substance, nor artists like wizards of creation, nor tricksters like wizards of fate, nor stoic contemplative like wizards of time, nor capricious like wizards of vitality. The Order of Enchantment is the order of _practicality_. Wizards of Enchantment are interested not in academic knowledge but in applied knowledge that will produce repeatable and, most importantly, useful results. Their magic is powerful, but not often flashy. They far prefer clever "boring but practical" or if necessary, "awesome but practical" solutions. Their ultimate criterion is "does it work, and reliably?" To them, using an iota more magic than is necessary is wasteful. They often stick to magic "formulas" that have been rigorously tested and approved for use by the order, and do not stray from them unless they must. They have the strictest internal regulations of all wizard orders (wizards of fate have the least) and are sticklers not only for rules and laws but morality and ethics. All their powers are based in the ability to imbue magic into the physical world and infuse it into inanimate objects or "unconscious" life forms (like plants) to create golems, automatons, and their signature: magic weapons. To them, using magic directly when a magic weapon will accomplish the same task is foolish. Telekinesis is also a signature power of theirs because it is simple, practical, and requires little magic. The God of Enchantment is a champion of order and hates chaos, like the God of Time. But unlike the God of Time, the God of Enchantment also dislikes ANY change in the order of the universe and sees it not as part of nature, like the seasons, but as an occasionally necessary evil to be tolerated.

Wizards of Enchantment are among the least likely to become evil due to their conservative nature, but when they do, they are utterly, mechanically ruthless.


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## Phietadix (Jan 13, 2013)

Mindfire said:


> This is a good idea! But you might consider expanding it into the *The Order of Enchantment*. This order would be concerned with infusing magic into the physical world, combining magic with matter in a predictable and practical way. They are not theorists like wizards of substance, nor artists like wizards of creation, nor tricksters like wizards of fate, nor stoic contemplative like wizards of time, nor capricious like wizards of vitality. The Order of Enchantment is the order of _practicality_. Wizards of Enchantment are interested not in academic knowledge but in applied knowledge that will produce repeatable and, most importantly, useful results. Their magic is powerful, but not often flashy. They far prefer clever "boring but practical" or if necessary, "awesome but practical" solutions. Their ultimate criterion is "does it work, and reliably?" To them, using an iota more magic than is necessary is wasteful. They often stick to magic "formulas" that have been rigorously tested and approved for use by the order, and do not stray from them unless they must. They have the strictest internal regulations of all wizard orders (wizards of fate have the least) and are sticklers not only for rules and laws but morality and ethics. All their powers are based in the ability to imbue magic into the physical world and infuse it into inanimate objects or "unconscious" life forms (like plants) to create golems, automatons, and their signature: magic weapons. To them, using magic directly when a magic weapon will accomplish the same task is foolish. Telekinesis is also a signature power of theirs because it is simple, practical, and requires little magic. The God of Enchantment is a champion of order and hates chaos, like the God of Time. But unlike the God of Time, the God of Enchantment also dislikes ANY change in the order of the universe and sees it not as part of nature, like the seasons, but as an occasionally necessary evil to be tolerated.
> 
> Wizards of Enchantment are among the least likely to become evil due to their conservative nature, but when they do, they are utterly, mechanically ruthless.



I like the idea of them being practical since their magic takes so much time and energy, but it would only work up to a certain point. Some of them would be working to create new and better AIs and more things to 'Progarm' into objects. They would always be wanting to improve upon what they already know. I don't think I'm going to give this Order the power to make Magic weapons, but I'll consider it. Also the God of Animation can't be total non-change, because he was partially responisble for one of the biggest changes the world had known; Adonai's Disapperence.


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## Mindfire (Jan 13, 2013)

Phietadix said:


> I like the idea of them being practical since their magic takes so much time and energy, but it would only work up to a certain point. Some of them would be working to create new and better AIs and more things to 'Progarm' into objects. They would always be wanting to improve upon what they already know. I don't think I'm going to give this Order the power to make Magic weapons, but I'll consider it. Also the God of Animation can't be total non-change, because he was partially responisble for one of the biggest changes the world had known; Adonai's Disapperence.



Interesting. Well, instead of anti-change, he could be anti _uncontrollable_ or _unregulated_ change. And the reason I think having them make magic weapons works so well is that since their magic takes so much time and effort, it's not the best tool in a fast-paced battle situation where you don't have time to think. In order to prepare for that, a wizard of this order would have to have some combat-ready magic prepared in advance, and the most convenient way to carry such a spell is inside an enchanted weapon. You make a good point about them needing to constantly research and improve their methods. I hadn't thought of that. Perhaps their order has an R&D division?


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## Mindfire (Jan 15, 2013)

Also, I'd suggest giving the wizards of time an interest in writing poetry and perhaps a minimalist style of music as a meditation exercise. Learning to follow the rhythm and flow of poetry and music helps time wizards will help initiates learn to attune themselves to the flow of time. The music of time wizards will be more solemn, contemplative and have a different focus compared to the highly emotional music of the creation wizards.


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## FatCat (Jan 15, 2013)

If you have order of creation, you need to balance it with order of destruction!


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## Jamber (Jan 16, 2013)

Are you going to have all equal orders or orders + sub-orders? (The latter would let you have, say, the order of tree-spirits, or the order of herbal lore, or something like that... But it would seem strange to have a herby order equal in power to, say, the order of creation). In fact there's a faint sense of hierarchy already in your order list.

Another way to approach this might be to go back and fragment some of those gigantic-themed orders, thus 'order of creation' might become several new orders, all vaguely creative (e.g. think along the lines of toolmaking, creation in terms of overarching worlds, sunlight and plants, reproduction, etc).

Or just some crazy unthought-through orders, see how many you can jot quickly and then prune back the list to the best and most resonant-sounding ones:

Order of the night sky. (What for I'm not sure... Divination? Or to rule over things that align themselves to the night sky – moths, fruit bats, certain other animals, certain plants, as well as star alignments and certain forms of prophesy?)
Order of winged things.
Order of malevolent spirits.
Order of sprites and elementals.
Order of fire energies.
Order of... Oh well, I'm out of split hairs.

You could think up a heap of orders and then imagine what they're for, just play loosely with words.

Well, those are my vague thoughts, anyhow... Having just been doing something a little similar (but with 9 mage-guilds).

Good luck!
Jamber


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## Phietadix (Jan 16, 2013)

FatCat said:


> If you have order of creation, you need to balance it with order of destruction!



Intresting, what abilitys would an Order like this have?
Anyway I've been working on the 7th Order.

*The Order of Strength* The Order of Strength gives it's wizards the ability to enhance their, and their allies, natural abilitys such as Strength, speed, reflexes, etc. The most powerful of the Wizards of Strength might be able to boost their reflexes to match even a Wizard of Time. Wizards of Strength are always wanting to increase their abilitys naturally as well, and place high importence on exerciese and proper diet. The God of Strength loves sports and often hosts his own games similar to the Olympics.

Also in reply to Jamber, there won't be sub-orders. Some Wizards may choose to focus on a particular thing (Such as Herbal Lore) but it won't be like you were describing.


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## FatCat (Jan 16, 2013)

I like the strength one, sort of like monks. I guess destruction isn't really what I'm thinking of, more the 'occult'. Though this would depend on what religions you have in your world, they could study spirits of the dead. Through rituals and summons they can ask for...services to be performed, so to speak. Again, anything further would be made on the assumption that your world would live within the factual truth that there is an afterlife, if this school would be taken seriously. Then again, you could have them be renounced and not taken seriously, even if they can really do these things.


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## Phietadix (Jan 16, 2013)

FatCat said:


> I like the strength one, sort of like monks. I guess destruction isn't really what I'm thinking of, more the 'occult'. Though this would depend on what religions you have in your world, they could study spirits of the dead. Through rituals and summons they can ask for...services to be performed, so to speak. Again, anything further would be made on the assumption that your world would live within the factual truth that there is an afterlife, if this school would be taken seriously. Then again, you could have them be renounced and not taken seriously, even if they can really do these things.



To see what the Religon is, just read this thread the 12/13 orders ARE the Religon. And while there is an afterfife, it's not commonly believed.


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## FatCat (Jan 16, 2013)

Hmm, well maybe you can have the potential 13th order be the study of the afterlife and death, renounced by the other schools as blasphemy. Perhaps you could even have the origins of the prophecy regarding the death of Adonai and the transfer of his power come from this god. With the creation of this school, Adonai cemented the need for death in life, and took this principle literally, knowing such a prophecy of his doom would be written.


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## Mindfire (Jan 16, 2013)

Hey, Phietadix! I came up with 3 or 4 more orders for you!  The ideas came to me when I was daydreaming in class. lol I don't have time to write up a post right now, but shoot me a PM or chat invite if you're interested and I'll tell you what I came up with. Or I might make a post tomorrow. Just don't let me forget!


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## Phietadix (Jan 16, 2013)

FatCat said:


> Hmm, well maybe you can have the potential 13th order be the study of the afterlife and death, renounced by the other schools as blasphemy. Perhaps you could even have the origins of the prophecy regarding the death of Adonai and the transfer of his power come from this god. With the creation of this school, Adonai cemented the need for death in life, and took this principle literally, knowing such a prophecy of his doom would be written.



It's not really a potential order, it definitly exists, but most people in the world don't acknowlage it as a real order. The thirteenth order is the order of Adonai. It's Wizards are Usually called the Paladins of Adonai. They are the main ones who belive in an afterlife. Also the Paladins are known following a stict code. They are by far the smallest order, they are both mocked and respected. They are mocked for believing in a 'dead' God and are respected for their honesty and unweavering sense of duty and for helping others.


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## Mindfire (Jan 17, 2013)

Question, Phietadix, why do you call this god "Adonai"?


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## Phietadix (Jan 17, 2013)

Mindfire said:


> Question, Phietadix, why do you call this god "Adonai"?



Named after the Hebrew word for Lord.


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## TheWarlock (Jan 17, 2013)

I have just started on this site how are you guys and gals call me the warlock


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## Mindfire (Jan 17, 2013)

Phietadix said:


> Named after the Hebrew word for Lord.



I know what the name is, but why did you choose it?


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## TheWarlock (Jan 18, 2013)

I like your system


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## Roc (Jan 20, 2013)

Phietadix said:


> I still need to figure what the other 8 orders should be.



How about only four, that way I don't get jumbled up. 12 is a lot to remember, so if you could put telekinesis in science, then you got that solved.

Previous posters were right in saying those four you already have are very broad, however, when being broad, that means there's room for mystery.

Good luck!

Edit: Was just reading your next couple posts, and I must say you're moving in the right direction, but after all, it is 'your' direction. I like mind fires ideas, mostly his renaming, they sound more interesting. 

I disagree with the science part though...science should and would have a place in magic if your society was based around magic.


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## Roc (Jan 20, 2013)

Phietadix said:


> Intresting, what abilitys would an Order like this have?
> Anyway I've been working on the 7th Order.
> 
> *The Order of Strength* The Order of Strength gives it's wizards the ability to enhance their, and their allies, natural abilitys such as Strength, speed, reflexes, etc. The most powerful of the Wizards of Strength might be able to boost their reflexes to match even a Wizard of Time. Wizards of Strength are always wanting to increase their abilitys naturally as well, and place high importence on exerciese and proper diet. The God of Strength loves sports and often hosts his own games similar to the Olympics.
> ...



I feel like this goes with the Order of Enhancement.


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## Phietadix (Jan 20, 2013)

Alright, through chatting me and Mindfire have come up with the next order

*The Order of Preservation* The Wizards of preservation are primairily pacisfsts, they want peace and a worl free from pain. their magic give them the ability to heal wounds, track those who are lost and shield others from harm. They lovers of the truth and have the magical abiltiy to dectect it. They often serve as Counelors, physicians, and judges. There god is also a lover of peace. He rarely, if ever gets into wars with the other eleven or try and trick the other gods. He deeply regrets what he tried to do to Adonai, unlike all the other gods. He mainly gets his enjoyment from helping and shielding others.


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## Phietadix (Jan 20, 2013)

Roc said:


> I feel like this goes with the Order of Enhancement.



Order of Animation (I choose not to go with Mindfire on this) Can only affect inanimate objects, It can't do anything with humans or anything else that can think.


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## Mindfire (Jan 20, 2013)

Phietadix, I was looking over the orders you have so far and counting the ones we chatted about you have ten of them now: Creation, Substance, Fate, Time, Vitality, Strength, Awakening, Animation, Preservation, and Discipline. This means you need two more. I think I've figured out a vague idea of what the last two are.

It occurred to me that all the orders can be arranged with relation to two axes. I'm sure you're familiar with the Lawful/Chaotic, Good/Evil alignment system? Well I imagined the alignment system for the Orders to be Orderly/Chaos, Practical/Whimsical. Orderly vs. Chaos is about whether an Order encourages its wizards to engage in much contemplation and reflection before acting or encourages them to instead act on instinct. Practical vs. Whimsical is about whether an order's magic is concerned primarily with the physical world and useful knowledge of magic or rather with the spiritual and imaginative side of things. The pure forms of each of these alignments are displayed in the four basic or "primal" or "foundational" orders. The Order of Substance represents practicality, the Order of Creation represents whimsicality, the Order of Time represents orderliness, and the Order of Fate represents chaos. The other 6 orders created so far are a mixture of two alignments.


Animation is primarily practical and secondarily orderly
Preservation is primarily orderly and secondarily practical
Discipline is primarily orderly and secondarily whimsical
Vitality is primarily whimsical and secondarily chaotic
Strength is primarily chaotic and secondarily practical
Awakening is primarily practical and secondarily chaotic

The two currently missing orders fill in the remaining gaps:
Missing #1 is primarily chaotic and secondarily whimsical.
Missing #2 is primarily whimsical and secondarily orderly.

This gives a broad idea of the philosophy and direction of the two missing orders. As I mentioned in chat, something to do with shadows would be a good candidate for #1. #2 remains a mystery to me.


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## Phietadix (Jan 20, 2013)

I'm not sure about your conclusions above. But I'll wait to hear what you come up with. Awakening and Dicipline haven't fully been approved. They still seem to overlap abit too much with other orders. I'm going to try and come up with the Order of Light.


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## Phietadix (Jan 20, 2013)

Also Do you have any idea's for names? Something hebrew would be good, or anything you can think of.


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## Mindfire (Jan 20, 2013)

That's fine. The axis system is mostly a theoretical organization tool.


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## Roc (Jan 20, 2013)

I majorally agree with the person that says there is a distinct hierarchy that is forming.

Are you going to try to keep them equal?


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## Phietadix (Jan 20, 2013)

How is a hierarchy forming? It wasn't intetional.


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## Mindfire (Jan 20, 2013)

I never said there was a hierarchy exactly. The alignments are just an organizational tool with very little, if any, bearing on the actual lore.


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## Roc (Jan 20, 2013)

Hierarchy in the sense that some Orders are more important than others — some are worthless, that sort of thing. Perhaps the Order of Strength or whatever is more powerful and important than the Order of Vitality.

I was curious how you were going to handle that.


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## Phietadix (Jan 20, 2013)

What orders are useless? If some really are then that's a problem. But yea strength should proabably be given more power.


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## Mindfire (Jan 20, 2013)

Phietadix said:


> What orders are useless? If some really are then that's a problem. But yea strength should proabably be given more power.



I think he meant that as a "what if".


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## S.T. Ockenner (Dec 22, 2020)

psychotick said:


> Hi,
> 
> Wizards of science? Sounds really weird to me. A clash.





psychotick said:


> Cheers, Greg.



Not necessarily- many wizards look at magic in a very scientific way, plus there's alchemy.


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