# What is the best Armor for slashing Protection?



## matanya (Aug 17, 2017)

I would like to know what is the best armor for someone who needs to wear it all day long, without getting tired and with minimum flexibility restrictions. the armor needs to protect mostly against slashing damage from swords and daggers, piercing is a secondery concern.

how would the ansewr change in a very hot desert climate, a moderate climate, and a tropical climate with high humidity?

how would the answer change for a rich person and for a peasent? in this aspect, neglect the material cost and consider only the work needed to create such an armor.


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## TheKillerBs (Aug 17, 2017)

The best armour period is plate. It doesn't restrict movement very much and the weight distribution allowed it to be worn for long periods at a time. It's expensive to make and keep though so if piercing damage is not a concern then mail would suffice. Even gambeson (padded armour made with many layers of linen) would be enough then, really, although you'd probably prefer a light gambeson under a mail coat in hot weather.


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## pmmg (Aug 17, 2017)

Its hard to beat plate for protection, but wearing armor 24/7 is also sucks. I think most things that would count as armor are slash resistant. Even soft leather offers some protection against that (heck, bunched up newspaper can protect against that). However, it not just the slash, its the impact as well, and so real armor would be required, and if your gonna be in a fight, I am sure you want actual armor.

I suppose I would say, I would prefer to wear no armor at all, and if I had to, I would want the least restrictive armor I could find, which I am thinking would be cloth or leather type armor. If there was to be a battle though, I would want something metal.

All climates will affect armor. Metal armor rusts, and leather armor tears, gets worn and rots. Taking care of armor and items would just be a fact of life.


If I was a rich person, I would buy plate, and likely wear chain in less dangerous places. If I was poor, I would wear would I could manage, and steal better when I could. I suppose I would have something cheap and easy to make, like thick cloth or leather. Maybe something with wood.


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## skip.knox (Aug 17, 2017)

What you describe doesn't exist. So the best armor would be fantasy armor. Design something yourself and give it the properties you need it to have. And set the price point so it suits the story.


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## Devor (Aug 17, 2017)

D&D has ruined us for armor with this notion of balance.  The best armor is the one people wore later in history because it's higher tech.  Plate, for instance, actually does less to hinder your mobility than chain because it's built with a person's joints in mind.  A pile of chains doesn't care how your shoulder moves.

That said, it's my understanding that slashing isn't all that effective against most armors.  By thrusting your sword you put all your force into one point which is more likely to have a stronger impact.


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## Shreddies (Aug 17, 2017)

Like slip.knox said, I don't think there is an ideal material like that in reality. Some may come close, but, if your world is a fantasy it might be for the best to invent your own. For instance, you could create a type of grass that is extremely difficult to cut with a slicing motion, meaning it would need to be harvested with shears or something unorthodox. Since it's a common grass, peasants could make crude woven suits out of it. It may not look posh (imagine wearing a flexible wicker jacket and pants), but it'd save your skin from scimitars. For folks with money it could be a type of silk. And so on, and so on. Even something like denim would make a good armor if it were tweaked a bit.

If you're dead set on keeping it as real as possible, then I'd suggest looking into historical armor from various cultures with an eye to the weapons they were intended to defend against. Conquistador chain mail worked quite well against slashing motions, for instance, but they sucked horribly when pitted against reed darts, if I recall correctly.


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## Russ (Aug 17, 2017)

Have to agree that role playing games have messed up our view of armour.

I am quite found of chain, having fought in it and plate many times.

Strangely enough I have almost never fought in plate without at least a hauberk of chain under it.

Well made chain I find moves quite well.  I would not want to spend all day in my plate, especially the helmet, but I suspect like most things if it became part of your life you would get use to it.

The OP approach is kind of odd.  IT is like assuming that somewhere there is an armour department store and then  you encounter a need and go buy something off the rack.  Armour didn't and likely won't develop that way.

Armour, like most technology, is a response to a problem. Neighbouring tribes developed better bows...how do we deal with that?  Invaders armour is better than ours?  Better copy it.

The best way to chose armour for a culture is to understand the underpinnings of the culture and then understand the problems it faced and how it responded to those problems.  IT might actually lead to something thoughtful and interesting.

History was not full of guys sitting around trying to figure out who to "mini-max" a technology or military problem.  It was filled with people responding to problems with the resources they had at hand.


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## matanya (Aug 17, 2017)

First of all, thanks for the answers.

I always invisioned my charcter in leather armor just because it looked cooler to me (movies I guess...). However, I do want it to be realistic.
From what I'ev read online, and from your resposes, I gather that plate is the best thing for protection, but I still have some more questions:
1) how practical is it to wear plate 24/7 (except in sleep of course)?
2) how hot is it inside plate, let's say in a mediterranean climate (hot and high humisity)?
3) what about the smell inside? will other also smell it or will the smell be confineded inside? how bad would it be?


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## pmmg (Aug 17, 2017)

I probably should not answer, cause what do I know?

1) how practical is it to wear plate 24/7 (except in sleep of course)?

I think, unless the environment was very dangerous, people would choose not to wear it unless they had to.

 2) how hot is it inside plate, let's say in a mediterranean climate (hot and high humidity)?

Its hot, but people did it. They just become kind of acclimatized to wearing it.

 3) what about the smell inside? will other also smell it or will the smell be confineded inside? how bad would it be? 

It would smell like old socks and iron, but a lot of things smelled bad in medieval Mediterranean. I am not sure it would stand out as smelling a whole lot worse.


I don't know about Metal armor, but in the army I wore all the Kevlar stuff, and I did not enjoy it. It was stiff, the helmet sucked, smelled bad, and strained my neck often, the Kevlar vest would hit you in the chin if you were not careful taking a knee, and it chaffed a lot. And it made it more difficult to carry stuff comfortably as your arms were out further from your body. It was not something you wanted to run around in and then drop into a prone position with. If I had my way, I would rather not have it and just take my chances (well, I would keep the helmet), and in hot environments, the armor was even more unpleasant.


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## Russ (Aug 17, 2017)

matanya said:


> First of all, thanks for the answers.
> 
> I always invisioned my charcter in leather armor just because it looked cooler to me (movies I guess...). However, I do want it to be realistic.
> From what I'ev read online, and from your resposes, I gather that plate is the best thing for protection, but I still have some more questions:
> ...



1)  You have to define what you mean by plate here, but the short answer is, it isn't practical at all.  It is  heavy and a pain in the ass if  you are just doing your day to day stuff.  I surely wouldn't want to wear my plate around having breakfast, chopping wood, walking to the outhouse, and don't get me started on going in the outhouse!  Now could I wear my breast plate around all day...maybe if I had to.  But throw in my leg armour and sabatons etc...no chance.

2)  yeah, plate can be hot.

3)  The armour doesn't smell, you and your clothes might, but the iron and steel and leather straps don't smell.  And no plate armour I know would trap the smell inside.


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## matanya (Aug 17, 2017)

I suppose that iron armor won't fit in this case, then (the knights are ment to have armor at all time, that is a main point in the story).
So it's back to leather or cloth. I'm also staring to consider not giving them any knid of armor and just make them realy good in deflecting and doging blows (which also gives me some ideas for future plotlines, but never mind...)

How much of a defence dose leather and cloth give?


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## Devor (Aug 17, 2017)

matanya said:


> I suppose that iron armor won't fit in this case, then (the knights are ment to have armor at all time, that is a main point in the story).



It might help if you could talk more about why they need to wear armor all the time.  If they're policing, for instance, then a lot of armor might not be necessary.  Or as Russ suggested, maybe they wear a metal breastplate but rely on padding everywhere else.  Something like this:


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## matanya (Aug 17, 2017)

The principle which the knighs' order was built on is fighting against magic. They are constantly pollicing the city, and detain anyone that practice magic. However, the magic also has an unpredicted component that forces any magician child (who still didn't learn how to control it) to cast a sudden, very powerful spell. Since this can happen anytime, and anyone, the knights must be ready to detain, and even kill, the child before he cast the spell.

The main fighting spells can enhance the magicain's strength and senses, call on animals for help and healing, so there is no need to consider fireballs and stuff like that.


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## pmmg (Aug 17, 2017)

If one is fighting magic, perhaps armor is the wrong ward. In the same way that one might use garlic and holy water against Vampires, perhaps magic using types can be thwarted by every items. Maybe such a warrior might carry hemlock as a way of protecting himself from magic, instead of armor. Assuming, of course, that hemlock had some real warding effect against supernatural forces.


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## matanya (Aug 17, 2017)

The magic in this world is very specific and limited. There is no way to ward against magic, or enchant objects and it has no weaknesses to any kind of herb/material/religious artifact. there are few exceptions, but the main combat spells are used for self enhancment and animal control so any knid of attack is still physical in nature, so armor is still needed.
In addition, some of the knights has natureal resistance or even immunity for the few spells that could be casted on them.


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## Annoyingkid (Aug 17, 2017)

matanya said:


> I would like to know what is the best armor for someone who needs to wear it all day long, without getting tired and with minimum flexibility restrictions. the armor needs to protect mostly against slashing damage from swords and daggers, piercing is a secondery concern.
> 
> how would the ansewr change in a very hot desert climate, a moderate climate, and a tropical climate with high humidity?
> 
> how would the answer change for a rich person and for a peasent? in this aspect, neglect the material cost and consider only the work needed to create such an armor.



The best mundane (non magical) armour is well maintained plate armour with chainmail vest  and padding underneath. The chainmail would cover the chin, and around the face.  
In a hot climate don't make the armour black, have it be bright and reflective. That's the best you can do.


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## skip.knox (Aug 17, 2017)

Wait. Originally the question concerned slashing, by which I think most of us assumed by a blade. Now it appears the reason for armor is magical attacks. In which case, pretty much nothing from real-world armor is going to help. I go back to design-your-own. That way you can make it as cool as you wish.

However that turns out, though, nobody is on patrol 24x7. Even cops sleep. The need would be to wear armor for, say, ten hours a day, but more realistically around five or six (work in shifts). And the wearing would not be too onerous because mostly they're just strolling around. Very different from supposing combat for hours on end.


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## Penpilot (Aug 18, 2017)

As others have mentioned, I think you have to think about your world more and apply a little bit of pragmatism to it.

Think about modern police. Do all of them wear full body armor? No. I guessing at this, but probably, some may wear a vest, but otherwise nothing but their uniform. They only bring out body armor in S.W.A.T. situations.

I'm not sure why someone would need to wear said armor 24/7. Why not have them armor up only when the situation calls. I mean, unless they're training, I'm pretty sure historical knights didn't wear their armor around their castle while doing their day-to-day activities. They probably just wore normal cloths and only armored up when they went into battle. 

You might want to check out this video. The guy seems to know what he's talking about. 






another video from this guy's channel on gambeson vs leather. 

Why padded armor (gambeson) is WAY better than leather armor - YouTube


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## matanya (Aug 18, 2017)

skip.knox said:


> Wait. Originally the question concerned slashing, by which I think most of us assumed by a blade. Now it appears the reason for armor is magical attacks. In which case, pretty much nothing from real-world armor is going to help. I go back to design-your-own. That way you can make it as cool as you wish.


Agian, when I say magic, I don't mean firballs and lightning bolts. All I ment was enhancing speed, or an animal attack. The reason I'm not concern about direct piercing, is that most attack would be by magicans who can enhance their physical strenght and no armor will be able to stop such a direct hit (that is also why freedom of movment is so importent since the only way to avoid a direct hit would by dodging it).
The aspect of magic came up to show the unexcpected nature of such an attack and the reason for always wearing armor.

Nevertheless, I did get enough information to decide what armor (probably a combination of some sort) would be used (based on climate, attacking weapon, mobility and weight), so thank you all.

p.s. the video realy helped.


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## Russ (Aug 18, 2017)

It all gets easier if the patrolling is done on horseback


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## Annoyingkid (Aug 19, 2017)

matanya said:


> Agian, when I say magic, I don't mean firballs and lightning bolts. All I ment was enhancing speed, or an animal attack. The reason I'm not concern about direct piercing, is that most attack would be by magicans who can enhance their physical strenght and no armor will be able to stop such a direct hit (that is also why freedom of movment is so importent since the only way to avoid a direct hit would by dodging it).
> The aspect of magic came up to show the unexcpected nature of such an attack and the reason for always wearing armor.
> 
> Nevertheless, I did get enough information to decide what armor (probably a combination of some sort) would be used (based on climate, attacking weapon, mobility and weight), so thank you all.
> ...



How do you dodge an opponent with enhanced speed and strength? Those knights would go down hard. All those wizards need to do is get a warhammer or a greatsword  and the  concussive effects alone would take out a knight in full plate. Doesn't have to effectively slash or pierce. Hell they just need to pommel attack with a longsword and they'd get knocked out.


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## matanya (Aug 19, 2017)

Annoyingkid, speed and strength isn't everything about swordplay, if you fight someone that is very skilled and just bush at him he can easily get you off balance and take advantage at your reckless attack. Besides, you can allways have several knights fighting one magician if you really have to.


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## TheKillerBs (Aug 19, 2017)

I'm sorry but speed is everything. The only reason skill matters when two people fight with swords is that there is a limit to the speed an ordinary human can move, which brings up the concept of tempo. If you can do something, your opponent can react and do something else as well. If you have a magical speed boost, that renders the whole concept of tempo meaningless, because now you can do things in a time frame in which your opponent just cannot react to.


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## matanya (Aug 19, 2017)

True. However if someone doesn't realy know what he's doing, then he opens himself for an attack (or counter attack).
Remember that high speed isn't infinit, you can still fight someone who is faster than you and win. And you also need to consider that a faster person might overastimate his adventage and make reckless mistake, like falling for a misleading move (or whatever the professional name is) that will get you off balance. 
In addition, you can learn what is the fighting style of someone and intisipate his moves, which also helps. And there is also an intimidation effect that would make a magician hesitated when attacking a knight.

Clarification: the knights are realy skilled (training day and night), the magicians are outlaws and don't get very good training (imagina a fight between a fast kid who just started learning, and some older sword master).
Enhanced speed is just a bit faster than human, but not like superman fast or a vampier).


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## Russ (Aug 20, 2017)

TheKillerBs said:


> I'm sorry but speed is everything. The only reason skill matters when two people fight with swords is that there is a limit to the speed an ordinary human can move, which brings up the concept of tempo. If you can do something, your opponent can react and do something else as well. If you have a magical speed boost, that renders the whole concept of tempo meaningless, because now you can do things in a time frame in which your opponent just cannot react to.



Speed is not close to everything in a sword fight.  Tempo is a function of skill not speed.


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## TheKillerBs (Aug 20, 2017)

Russ said:


> Speed is not close to everything in a sword fight.  Tempo is a function of skill not speed.



You're right... when two humans with human limitations are fighting. Tempo matters in skill because humans have such similar speed to each other. Trying to go against someone who can lunge and recover in less time than your brain can even receive visual information is a good way to get killed.


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## Russ (Aug 20, 2017)

TheKillerBs said:


> You're right... when two humans with human limitations are fighting. Tempo matters in skill because humans have such similar speed to each other. Trying to go against someone who can lunge and recover in less time than your brain can even receive visual information is a good way to get killed.



While that is indeed true, since the OP clearly suggested that the attacks could be dodged, despite their enhanced speed, I did not take that to be the case he was trying to discuss.

I have however, seen and experienced much faster swordsman losing bouts to much slower swordsman with no dodging involved.

Dodging is actually very slow compared to a parry, and if a cut (albeit very fast) is at a speed it can be dodged, it surely is at a speed it can be parried.


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## TheKillerBs (Aug 20, 2017)

Russ said:


> While that is indeed true, since the OP clearly suggested that the attacks could be dodged, despite their enhanced speed, I did not take that to be the case he was trying to discuss.
> 
> I have however, seen and experienced much faster swordsman losing bouts to much slower swordsman with no dodging involved.
> 
> Dodging is actually very slow compared to a parry, and if a cut (albeit very fast) is at a speed it can be dodged, it surely is at a speed it can be parried.



See, when I wrote that I had not seen that and the OP later clarified not extreme boosts, so I understand my post was kinda irrelevant to the conversation. And yes, of course a full body movement is clearly slower than a single muscle movement amplified by a lever – although my belief is that it's best to parry _and dodge_ whenever possible.


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## Russ (Aug 20, 2017)

TheKillerBs said:


> See, when I wrote that I had not seen that and the OP later clarified not extreme boosts, so I understand my post was kinda irrelevant to the conversation. And yes, of course a full body movement is clearly slower than a single muscle movement amplified by a lever – although my belief is that it's best to parry _and dodge_ whenever possible.



Dodge is kind of a funky word.  To my mind it brings up images of cartoon characters diving around, or rolling or some such.

At the sword school where I train we say "Perry and step off line".

But you have the principle dead right.  Put your piece of steel between you and  his piece of steel, and don't be where his piece of steel is appearing to be going.


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## ChasingSuns (Aug 25, 2017)

Annoyingkid said:


> How do you dodge an opponent with enhanced speed and strength? Those knights would go down hard. All those wizards need to do is get a warhammer or a greatsword  and the  concussive effects alone would take out a knight in full plate. Doesn't have to effectively slash or pierce. Hell they just need to pommel attack with a longsword and they'd get knocked out.



They could even end a fight immediately if they "end him rightly"


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