# 26. Stephen R. Donaldson Discussion



## Philip Overby (Nov 23, 2013)

Number 26 is a heavy-hitter in the genre, Stephen R. Donaldson. A winner of many awards, including the World Fantasy Award, he is best known for his series _The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant._ While I haven't read his books, I've heard his name mentioned many times. The Chronicles series has been split into three smaller series that have spanned from 1977 to 2013. 

Has anyone read any of Donaldson's work?


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## Ankari (Nov 23, 2013)

I've read all of the _Thomas Covenant_ series. Stephen Donaldson is a great writer that can frustrate you one moment, then make you feel oily and repulsed the next. Thomas Covenant is a true antihero. One of the first, which makes Donaldson ahead of him time.

I was a bit surprised that I continued with the series after the first few chapters. I typically don't like the whole "man from Earth is transplanted to a fantasy world" story. There are other tropes I don't like, that I won't name because they would be minor spoilers. And still, I chugged through each book, waiting for the release of the next.

It is a testament to his writing ability, and world building (he does a decent job of that, too). I would recommend the series to anyone who likes to read a book washed in grays and dark grays.


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## Feo Takahari (Nov 23, 2013)

The Donaldson I've read is _The Man Who Fought Alone_. It's not a fantasy story, but it's the second-best martial arts story I've encountered in any medium (behind the manga _Holyland_.) It's pretty obvious that Donaldson loves the subject matter, and he approaches it in a tone that's reverent, informative, and yet surprisingly never dull.

As for Donaldson's fantasy, I've read an essay on the subject that's too funny not to link. Among other things, it remarked that his books would be significantly more honest if they replaced a single word:



> Covenant saw. The Staff of Plot. Destroyed. For the Staff of Plot had been formed by Berek Halfhand as a tool to serve and uphold the Plot. He had fashioned the Staff from a limb of the One Tree as a way to wield Earthpower in defence of the health of the Land, in support of the natural order of life. And because Earthpower was the strength of mystery and spirit, the Staff became the thing it served. It was the Plot; the Plot was incarnate in the Staff. The tool and its purpose were one. And the Staff had been destroyed. That loss had weakened the very fibre of the Plot. A crucial support was withdrawn, and the Plot faltered.



P.S. I should also mention that while with most series, you could choose to stop reading at any time, there's a very specific point where people stop reading _Thomas Covenant_. It occurs in the first book, it involves Covenant and a character named Lena, and I know all about it despite not having read the book because everyone who stopped reading there talks first about that scene.

P.P.S. I haven't personally watched it, but I once saw a news article about a . . . unique review show that got its start covering _Lord Foul's Bane_, chapter by chapter. It sparked a lot of protests about "lesbians on public television." I just searched for it now, and I was able to find a website for it if you're curious.


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## Philip Overby (Nov 23, 2013)

That intro is so 90s. 

More thoughts later.

Edit: It was pretty funny, but was paced kind of weird so I couldn't really get into it as much I wanted.

I've heard good things about Donaldson, but have heard some criticisms as well. I may have to give him a try at some point because I like a good anti-hero.


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## Dreamweaver (Nov 23, 2013)

I've read all of the Covenant series except for the last/most recent one. I first read his books when I was a young teen, around 14-15. I enjoyed the first trilogy but enjoyed the second one more. 

One thing Donaldson can do very well is get the reader to turn the pages, create a sense of tension, a need to find out what happens/how the hell are they going to get out of this mess kind of thing. 

I recently re-read the first trilogy and still enjoyed it, though be warned - his writing style is not for everyone. He sometimes uses words not even many dictionaries can define.


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## Steerpike (Nov 23, 2013)

Donaldson is a great writer, Phil. You should at least give Lord Foul's Bane a try, and see if you like it from there.


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## TWErvin2 (Nov 23, 2013)

*Lord Foul's Bane *is somewhat difficult to get through at times, but it sets up the rest of the series and worth the effort.


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## C Hollis (Nov 24, 2013)

I have a copy of Lord Fouls Bane that I bought like 30 years ago.  About once every couple of years, I dust it off and try to read it.
I have yet to make it through the book.  I just can't get through it.  A close friend of mine keeps pushing me to try again, and I will.  I like the writing, the world, and all that good stuff, but I just have a hard time reading a book when I just don't care what happens to the main character.
It may be different if I wanted him to die, or live, but I really just don't care either way.

Honestly, the only reason I persist is because I read a lot of stories where my main goal is to learn what elements made them so popular, or considered "classics".


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## TWErvin2 (Nov 27, 2013)

*C Hollis*,

Thomas Covenant is a different kind of protagonist compared to what one usually finds out there. But, in the end, it turns out that he's just the man for the job.  I found as I read I really enjoyed many of the other characters throughout the series, and the world created...not a carbon copy (how often is that term used anymore?) or even a reflection of other worlds created by other authors and storytellers.  Me, I really thought the Ur-viles (and their opponents/brethren demondim spawn, Waynhim) were pretty interesting. The Bloodguard are pretty neat as well.

I hope you're able to persevere. But then again, some stories and writing styles are not a good match for a reader.


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## Scribble (Nov 27, 2013)

I actually like Lord Foul's Bane quite a bit. I love his writing. 

What causes me some trouble in finding fantasy I like to read is that I get easily bored of shiny good characters, I don't believe in them. The popularity of gray fantasy these days has drawn me back in. For me, the evil isn't "out there" wearing a black cloak speaking in monologues, it's in us, and just what evil means is also highly subjective.

People are full of impulses that society might regard as immoral or hideous. We do make choices, but sometimes we lose control, sometimes we don't care about the consequences, in the moment, and sometimes we never care about the consequences, and sometimes guilt eats us up. It's complicated being a human. I like characters who explore that complexity. I might not want them for a brother-in-law, but when I read about a flawed person, I can relate, because I am flawed and I get to see what they do in difficult situations and it gives me perspective on myself.

Of course, I have daughters and I am quick to rage at the thought of violation. When I first read that part, I did not find it gratuitous, but the events that followed raised questions I wanted to see answered. I wasn't disappointed. 

It's not an easy read in some ways, but I found it worth my time.


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## Steerpike (Nov 27, 2013)

Do you like Elric, Scribble? I always enjoyed those as among the earlier stories about a morally gray character.


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## Scribble (Nov 27, 2013)

Steerpike said:


> Do you like Elric, Scribble? I always enjoyed those as among the earlier stories about a morally gray character.



I sure do, I've read and re-read the Elric series a few times.


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## Steerpike (Nov 27, 2013)

Scribble said:


> I sure do, I've read and re-read the Elric series a few times.



Me too. Good stuff.


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## Ophiucha (Dec 1, 2013)

Despite the fact that I loathe that _one scene_, I actually really like the Thomas Covenant series and even the titular character. The worldbuilding was quite good for a story that was going for a rather standard fantasy setting, and the struggle with scepticism is an interesting one. The first trilogy was definitely better than the second, and I haven't read the final book of the series yet to comment on the last, but as far as a series of ten books is concerned, the relatively consistent quality of writing is worthy of a bit of praise, too.


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## TWErvin2 (Dec 1, 2013)

I enjoyed the first trilogy better than the first by far, mainly because I really didn't care for Linden Avery at all.

The Elric series was pretty good. I enjoyed Hawkmoon as well.


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## Ruby (Dec 18, 2013)

P.S. I should also mention that while with most series, you could choose to stop reading at any time, there's a very specific point where people stop reading _Thomas Covenant_. It occurs in the first book, it involves Covenant and a character named Lena, and I know all about it despite not having read the book because everyone who stopped reading there talks first about that scene.

How amazing! - This is exactly the point where I stopped reading the book. This was years ago and I still have the series in hardback. I bought them second hand as the seller said how brilliant they were. Why do you suppose this is the point where readers give up? Should I try reading them again?


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## Feo Takahari (Dec 18, 2013)

Ruby said:


> Why do you suppose this is the point where readers give up? Should I try reading them again?



Simply put, because they can't forgive Covenant for what he does. I have heard the books get better after the first one, but that's not necessarily enough to sell someone on it if they couldn't stand Covenant no matter where the books went.


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## Steerpike (Dec 18, 2013)

Feo Takahari said:


> Simply put, because they can't forgive Covenant for what he does. I have heard the books get better after the first one, but that's not necessarily enough to sell someone on it if they couldn't stand Covenant no matter where the books went.



I think that's right. I find it strange though. I don't care whether I like or abhor Covenant, I just want a well-written and interesting story.


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