# The Test of Time



## ThinkerX (Apr 9, 2017)

I read a lot.  Hundreds of books each year, ten thousand or more over the past few decades, mostly fantasy and science fiction, with a fair number of thrillers, mysteries, and other works thrown in.  

The vast majority of these books are not works for the ages. Instead, they'll be largely forgotten within a year of publication, and difficult to find - perhaps even online - within a decade or so.  But others persist, being popular or insightful enough to be at least findable decades after their publication.  These stories appear to have withstood the test of time.  My initial, incomplete list (restricted to fantasy)

- Lord of the Rings, Tolkien 
- EarthSea trilogy, LeGuin
- House on the Borderland, Hodges
- Narnia series, Lewis
- Cthulhu mythos, Lovecraft

Possibly (verdict is still out)...

- Magician series (first few books, anyhow), by Feist
- Green Angel Tower, Williams
- Shanara series, Brooks

Ones younger folks believe might stand times test...

- Harry Potter
- Game of Thrones


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## Ban (Apr 9, 2017)

I think you can add Discworld, Dune, Asimov's Robot series and probabably quite a few more. But what is more important is this: "How on earth do you read hundreds of books in a year?". I'm struggling to read 1 per month.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Apr 9, 2017)

Harry Potter is relatively new; twenty years old I think. But judging by its massive popularity I would say it's not going anywhere. 

Nor should it. They're popular for a reason.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Apr 9, 2017)

Banten said:


> . But what is more important is this: "How on earth do you read hundreds of books in a year?". I'm struggling to read 1 per month.



Same! My Goodreads is showing that I've read 3 books so far in 2017. Not true; I've read at least two more than that, more I hope...

All the same I am in truly dire straits in terms of reading. Mostly because time I would ordinarily devote to reading, always must go to writing, no matter how much I want to read...


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## TheCrystallineEntity (Apr 9, 2017)

^Would audio books help?


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## ThinkerX (Apr 9, 2017)

Banten said:


> I think you can add Discworld, Dune, Asimov's Robot series and probabably quite a few more. But what is more important is this: "How on earth do you read hundreds of books in a year?". I'm struggling to read 1 per month.



Because you and others asked...

I trained myself to read very fast as a teenager.  (One of the classrooms I was in had a cart of novella length young adult books, with a fifteen minute gap between two afternoon classes.  I reached the point to where I could read one of those in that time period.)  Later, the way my employment went, I had long gaps before, during, or after work where I could read but not do much else.  ('At work' - I was with a van service with a 'park when not in use' policy, so I got to spend lots of time sitting in remote parking lots for extended periods.)  I reached the 'book a day' level decades ago.



> Harry Potter is relatively new; twenty years old I think. But judging by its massive popularity I would say it's not going anywhere.
> 
> Nor should it. They're popular for a reason.



Still not long enough, though I admit it has potential.  

There are many once wildly popular books that few have heard of anymore.  Dick Tracy. The Shadow.


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## Penpilot (Apr 10, 2017)

ThinkerX said:


> There are many once wildly popular books that few have heard of anymore.  Dick Tracy. The Shadow.



Sometimes other factors come into play as to why certain books are still known and read. Obviously, the first thing is the books are good, but what keeps things in the popular consciousness may go beyond that. This is just conjecture on my part, but some of it I bet is due to schools, or rather teachers. 

Teachers choose reading material for their various courses. If there are enough teachers who make certain authors they like required reading for a course, it' sort of keeps that author in the public consciousness, more than it might otherwise be.

I remember the Hobbit and LOTR was read in a few of my elementary school classes. And to this day there are numerous books I read while in school that may not be considered well know classics, but still hold a soft spot in my heart.

I remember reading this article explanaing why the movie It's a Wonderful Life is a holiday classic. I'll leave the link here.

How It?s a Wonderful Life Went From Box Office Dud to Christmas Classic | Screen Rant

Basically, the movie was a forgotten flop until a clerical error let the copyright lapse. When that happened, TV stations could play the movie without paying for the rights to it, so it became this goto source of holiday time filler, that got played over and over, and became this ubiquitous entity during the holidays. 

And as people create positive memories with their families during that time, that move became part of those memories.

And part of me wonders if a similar effect is in place with teachers/schools and books.


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## Ban (Apr 10, 2017)

ThinkerX said:


> Because you and others asked...
> 
> I trained myself to read very fast as a teenager.  (One of the classrooms I was in had a cart of novella length young adult books, with a fifteen minute gap between two afternoon classes.  I reached the point to where I could read one of those in that time period.)  Later, the way my employment went, I had long gaps before, during, or after work where I could read but not do much else.  ('At work' - I was with a van service with a 'park when not in use' policy, so I got to spend lots of time sitting in remote parking lots for extended periods.)  I reached the 'book a day' level decades ago.



That's pretty amazing. Time for me to step up my game then


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## Russ (Apr 10, 2017)

ThinkerX said:


> There are many once wildly popular books that few have heard of anymore.  Dick Tracy. The Shadow.




Dick was really a comic book, and the Shadow was not really big until it hit radio for while.

Test of time is a funny thing.  Some things that may not have been hugely popular when first released can pick up momentum and become classics later.  Tolkien is an example of that.

In fantasy there are some I would add to your list:

Moorcock's Elric series.
Howard's Conan.
Donaldson's thomas Covenant
maybe Leiber's Fafred and Mouser.

I am not convinced SOFI will make it.  I am pretty sure Potter will.

I am not sure where you put Anne Rice's work, but it has a shot.

I loved Brooks' Shannara stuff, I read it as it came out, but I don't think it is work for the ages.

Oh crap, how could I forget Mists of Avalon!  A serious contender methinks.

Thanks for the interesting topic.


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## FifthView (Apr 10, 2017)

I do wonder whether having been made into wildly popular movies or television shows will make a great difference. Harry Potter and ASOIAF will probably endure for this reason–although I suppose the books themselves might suffer precisely because the other media will endure. Especially ASOIAF which, my opinion, may be generally well-written but had some problems with pacing in at least a couple of the books; I'm not sure it stands up to the HBO version well.

So...A number of Stephen King books probably could fit the list. (Again, some of these benefit from being made and remade into movies. A new version of _It_ is scheduled to appear at your local cinema, reintroducing it--heh--to the younger crowd.)

I'll add my vote to Dune and Thomas Covenant.

I'd also include Ender's Game on the list.

I have difficulty conceiving the list because I'm old enough now, and read a lot when young, for some of my favorites to seem like they have lasted long already.  Is it just because I've lasted long?  Heh.

Feist surprises me.  Magician was one of my favorites, it seemed to have disappeared from the zeitgeist until I started hanging out online (more an example of my being out of the loop maybe) and now it keeps being mentioned here and there.


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## CupofJoe (Apr 10, 2017)

I'd add in Hitch Hiker Guide to the Galaxy [however_many_of_them_there_now]logy but that might just be my age.
There are also stories by Arthur C Clark that I think will be around for a while.
As well as Burgess' A Clockwork Orange, Huxley's Brave New World, and a few more that have already weather a little of time's ravages.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Apr 10, 2017)

Heh. Potter becomes a part of your identity. There are movies, theme parks, all sorts of merchandise. People get tattoos showing their allegiance and buy merchandise of their houses...I cant think of a single work that has had more influence on YA fantasy (unless you count LOTR as YA, but plenty of adults enjoy that?) (Plenty of adults enjoy Potter too.) There are so many references in pop culture, so much influence on the fantasy genre...

My brother wouldn't be reading books at all if not for Potter, and plenty of other kids have had the same experience. For many the books were the gateway drug to the world of literature. Also, the universal appeal of the books can't be ignored.

Also, the feverishly obsessive devotion of the fans. (One of my friends has read the series at least 20 times. I consider myself obsessed with it and I don't even know how you do that, but...) 

Harry Potter has in common with the other books you mentioned that it's sold well, but it has so much more going for it.


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## Michael K. Eidson (Apr 10, 2017)

I'll throw a vote for Moorcock's Elric series, Howard's Conan, Donaldson's Thomas Covenant, Leiber's Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser. If you consider Dune to be fantasy, then it gets my vote too.

If you're considering science fantasy in this list, which maybe Dune is, then I'd also add A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L'Engle.

Does no one these days know the Castle Amber series by Roger Zelazny? That would top my list along with the Elric books.

I'll also nominate T. H. White's The Once and Future King.


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## ThinkerX (Apr 10, 2017)

CupofJoe said:


> I'd add in Hitch Hiker Guide to the Galaxy [however_many_of_them_there_now]logy but that might just be my age.
> There are also stories by Arthur C Clark that I think will be around for a while.
> As well as Burgess' A Clockwork Orange, Huxley's Brave New World, and a few more that have already weather a little of time's ravages.



On another site dedicated to a different subject, the topic of science fiction would come up on occasion.  The non-US posters there (most of them from India) expressed bafflement.  Apparently, the *only* SF works to get much circulation in their corner of the world was reprints of the 'big three' - Heinlein, Clark, Asimov, plus a few Russian works that were uniformly described as 'horrible.'


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## ThinkerX (Apr 10, 2017)

Michael K. Eidson said:


> I'll throw a vote for Moorcock's Elric series, Howard's Conan, Donaldson's Thomas Covenant, Leiber's Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser. If you consider Dune to be fantasy, then it gets my vote too.
> 
> If you're considering science fantasy in this list, which maybe Dune is, then I'd also add A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L'Engle.
> 
> ...



Yeah, Moorcocks 'Elric' series and Howards 'Conan' definitely belong on the list. Donaldson's 'Covenant'...a bit iffy.  'Dune' has something of a small cult following, so make that one a 'maybe'.

Peaks 'Gormeghast' books...another maybe.


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## Demesnedenoir (Apr 10, 2017)

Potter is too big to die quickly, and set enough trends it might last. I couldn't and still can't get through chapter 2, and didn't like the couple movies I watched (I was spacing off by the end of act 1), so I'm a lousy judge. Succesful movies could either hinder or harm the durability of the book franchise. To really stand against time, the books must last a lot of years and beyond the writer's lifetime (or at least career) by a couple decades, IMO. 

The future of books is... interesting. It is conceivable that at some point in the future, no books will stand the test of time, for a variety of reasons, including the introduction of customized AI developed novels, heh heh. Who needs human authors?


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## skip.knox (Apr 11, 2017)

So glad to see someone put _The Once and Future King_ in there. Incredibly, T.H. White's works are nearly all (all?) out of print, which is a real shame. But that was his greatest work and deserves a place. After all, it gave rise to both _Camelot_ and _Sword in the Stone_.

Come to think of it, he may well be the real founder of the whole Boy of Destiny trope.


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## FifthView (Apr 12, 2017)

Demesnedenoir said:


> The future of books is... interesting. It is conceivable that at some point in the future, no books will stand the test of time, for a variety of reasons, including the introduction of customized AI developed novels, heh heh. Who needs human authors?



It may be that "test of time" itself ceases to have meaning, in the sense that every book will continue to exist in electronic form quite regardless of whether large percentages of the population will ever read it.


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## Michael K. Eidson (Apr 12, 2017)

ThinkerX said:


> Yeah, Moorcocks 'Elric' series and Howards 'Conan' definitely belong on the list. Donaldson's 'Covenant'...a bit iffy.  'Dune' has something of a small cult following, so make that one a 'maybe'.
> 
> Peaks 'Gormeghast' books...another maybe.



My wife doesn't read a lot of sf/f and is far from cultish, but loves the Dune books and movie. Just saying.



skip.knox said:


> So glad to see someone put _The Once and Future King_ in there. Incredibly, T.H. White's works are nearly all (all?) out of print, which is a real shame. But that was his greatest work and deserves a place. After all, it gave rise to both _Camelot_ and _Sword in the Stone_.
> 
> Come to think of it, he may well be the real founder of the whole Boy of Destiny trope.



Penguin Group has made _The Once and Future King_ available for the Kindle on Amazon, so it, at least, should survive.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Apr 13, 2017)

Dune doesn't seem like a cult classic, it seems pretty popular as sci-fi goes.


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## kabe (Apr 24, 2017)

Malazan Book of the Fallen, anyone?


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## ThinkerX (Apr 24, 2017)

kabe said:


> Malazan Book of the Fallen, anyone?



Probably not.  It's popular now, but I suspect very few people will remember it in a few decades.  A comparable example would be Andre Norton's 'Witch World' - a major addition to the fantasy genre back in the 60's, turned into a shared world deal that sputtered through the 80's, but in now mostly forgotten.


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