# Looking for criticism on my magic concept



## Rullenzar (Mar 31, 2012)

*Tidbits/FYI notes:*
I have only 4 types of Magic type abilities and certain ones complement another type and through vigorous training 2 can be learned but at a cost. The body and soul are strained to hold that much power and the years of ones life can be greatly shortened if not learned properly and kept in check with not only physical upkeep but mental as well. Also the 1st class is my unique class and will be explained with more detail.

Hardened combatants and assassins or beings charged with keeping order and hunting down those who step out of line are the ones who find using two powers to be a necessity. 

*The System*: (Names subject to change) 

1.*Blade Dancing* - This is the art of amplifying ones swordsmanship/anyweaponsmanship with the elemental forces.
What this means is through proper stances/forms and executions every swing of the blade/axe/etc.. is accompanied by an elemental attack stemming from the wielder and shot through and out their weapon.
(Their weapons are from unique origins, and commonplace among my race. You must have one of these weapons to be able to execute the elemental attacks, without the proper weaponry your just swinging around a sword)

A list of elemental effects and what they can do with their amplified powers too.(please note that Blade dancing can be amplified and unlock advanced techniques when Weather Talkers use their powers near a Blade dancer.)
**Weather Talkers explained further down**
_*Also note that the amplified effect cannot be held forever, only used in short bursts 2-4 seconds in length each, the strain on the body is too much to hold for any longer then that*_

_Fire Blade dancing_ - Each strike not only cuts their foes but burns where it makes contact, can also send waves of flames at a distance. When amplified the wielder can engulf himself in flames and spread through his enemies like wildfire.

_Ice Blade dancing -_ Each strike not only cuts but freezes the point that is contacted, can also send cold air at range to freeze foes (Shivering cold when not amplified, ice blocked when amplified). When amplified the wielder is engulfed by an aura that is ridiculously cold and can freeze any enemy who just happens to be near.

_Lighting blade dancing_ - Each strike not only cuts but sends short bursts of jolts through a foes body stemming from the contact point, can also send precision lighting bolts from range. When amplified the wielder can essentially merge with lighting bolts (taking the ride ) to either teleport to another location or setup a vicious attack striking the ground in lighting form sending a powerful shockwave in a 360 degree angle sending everything caught in it's path flying (one example of a possible attack).

Think I will just have those three but feedback on more possibilities would be appreciated, I'd like to keep it in check with the weather as the amplified parts come from when a Weather talker summons that certain type of weather. I was thinking of earth too, but there is no weather anomaly I can think of that would go well with earth to amplify it. Tried water but seemed silly splashing water on foes lol

2.* Weather Talkers*

Essentially as the name states weather talkers control the weather. They can use tornadoes/lighting/heat from sun etc.. for their attacks as well as amplify a Blade dancers abilities depending on which type of weather they currently use. The unique thing about weather talkers is they can perform epic scale weather changing as well as comedic downpour of rain onto one unsuspecting victim. Only the more skilled Weather talkers can perform epic scale changes but even the smallest and most useless effects are enough to help a Blade dancer achieve their advanced abilities.

3. *Shapeshifters*

As the name states this is the art of shifting ones form into another. Shifters can take on the forms of any animals without consequence. The art of shifting into humans/fantastical races comes at a price...the price is the life of the one you wish to shift into. You must first kill the intended shifty and only the last person you kill is subject to being shifted into. You cannot shift into everybody you have ever killed, you can only have one template at a time. Preferred skill by assassins. Not much more to say about this class aside from they cannot shift into things that aren't living and this class goes hand in hand with number 4. 

4. *Telekinesis and telekenetic power combined (don't know what to call it yet so ill call it)
Jaruucabuu
*

This is the ability to manipulate all matter and non existant matter like thoughts (sending your thoughts to another) however they cannot read minds, they can send and recieve but they cant extract. The way I've written it probably sounds like it takes a while for information to go back and forth but its regular in the scale of how regular telekenesis is lol You talk the intended target or targets hear it and vice versa. 

The telekenetic part is basically just that, manipulating objects to do what you want, picking up a human, scrunching him up into a ball and bowling a perfect 300 on the battlefields of blood and glory lol.
Most shifters opt to learn the telekenesis part as it makes pack attacks more strategic. We know these abilities as seperate skills and i've explained it in as such but in my story this power is one and the same, my people know not what they are seperate, they know only Jaruucabuu.

Telekenetic part is essentially the more advanced part and most shifters opt to not learn that part.

*End*

So ya that's my baby, be gentle with her, awaiting criticism.


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## ThinkerX (Apr 1, 2012)

> 4. Telekinesis and telekenetic power combined (don't know what to call it yet so ill call it)
> Jaruucabuu



The word your looking for here, I believe, is 'psionics'.  

ESP is the part of psionics that deals with purely mental stuff - mostly communicating mind to mind, though it could also be used to 'charm' a person into doing something they normally would not, at least some of the time, and is also associated with 'scrying' or 'remote viewing' and sometimes predicting future events.

Telekinesis is object manipulation at a distance - picking something up with the force of your mind and moving it somewhere else.  

That said, weather manipulation and shapeshifting have long, long histories in a variety of real world mythologies.


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## Rullenzar (Apr 1, 2012)

ThinkerX said:


> The word your looking for here, I believe, is 'psionics'.
> 
> ESP is the part of psionics that deals with purely mental stuff - mostly communicating mind to mind, though it could also be used to 'charm' a person into doing something they normally would not, at least some of the time, and is also associated with 'scrying' or 'remote viewing' and sometimes predicting future events.
> 
> ...



My post was already pretty long so I cut some things out that I wanted mention. Psionics is a word I'm against using. I didn't want to use a word people would associate with some of the things you listed since in my world the ability is strictly communication mentally and strictly moving objects like Sylar from heroes as you stated in your description of Telekinesis. I didn't want to make it too complicated spiraling off into different possibilities. Just wanted the two set in stone.

On the subject of real world histories. I tried to make these abilities apart of my world histories and why they go well with each other in my world. I mean I could just as easily switch them around and scramble them and come up with reasons why another two would go better but my world operates on the basis I set up for my system as is. 

Appreciate your input.


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## Rullenzar (Apr 1, 2012)

on a personal note If im read as moody please excuse me and I apologize. Just been up for about 48 hours striaght. Probably why I'm repeating myself in some areas as i noticed reading back lol


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## The Din (Apr 1, 2012)

Sorry, but you say the whole fire ball thing is overdone, yet you use a system I would expect to see in any rpg computer game? Not saying its bad, just that claiming you are thinking outside the box is a bit much... Sorry if that sounds condescending, I just find that trying to rationalize magic systems is an uphill struggle, though sanderson manages to get away with it somehow. Again, just my opinion, feel free to ignore.


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## Devor (Apr 1, 2012)

Unless there's something pretty bad, there usually isn't a lot to say about someone else's magical outline.  You could write a compelling story about a person with just the power to turn roses blue if you know what you are doing.

I'm going to hope that others tackle the practical questions for you, and I'm going to ask:  Is there a _throughline_ in your magic system which connects these powers?  They seem pretty far afield to me.  There's nothing really wrong with that, but books are a little better when _everything_ connects somehow to the story.  If you have four types of magic, and you can give them a common cause, and then have that common cause play a role in your plot, then you would have a much stronger tie between your world and your characters which the readers will appreciate.


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## Rullenzar (Apr 1, 2012)

Devor said:


> Unless there's something pretty bad, there usually isn't a lot to say about someone else's magical outline.  You could write a compelling story about a person with just the power to turn roses blue if you know what you are doing.
> 
> I'm going to hope that others tackle the practical questions for you, and I'm going to ask:  Is there a _throughline_ in your magic system which connects these powers?  They seem pretty far afield to me.  There's nothing really wrong with that, but books are a little better when _everything_ connects somehow to the story.  If you have four types of magic, and you can give them a common cause, and then have that common cause play a role in your plot, then you would have a much stronger tie between your world and your characters which the readers will appreciate.



Aside from all of them coming from the same civilization no. My unique race lives apart from ground world i like to call it. When their civilization is destroyed from within those who survive are split into two groups. There are those who try to piece together their way of life and rebuild with their own. The other group wishes to forsake their own race due to the circumstances and what happened and forge new beginnings coexisting with the ground world. Those who forge a new way have to first forsake their power and are stripped of them. This is where half breeds come into play. Their powers can be taken but their dna cannot be changed and so their offspring possess the potential for the powers. The powers themselves have to be learned before they can be used, individuals are just shall we say attuned to one in specific that traces back to their bloodlines. The option to learn a second is an option but has to be the one on the flip side of the coin shall we say and they come at a great price as i mentioned in the first post.

In a nutshell


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## Rullenzar (Apr 1, 2012)

The Din said:


> Sorry, but you say the whole fire ball thing is overdone, yet you use a system I would expect to see in any rpg computer game? Not saying its bad, just that claiming you are thinking outside the box is a bit much... Sorry if that sounds condescending, I just find that trying to rationalize magic systems is an uphill struggle, though sanderson manages to get away with it somehow. Again, just my opinion, feel free to ignore.



The fireball thing was really just meant for my first Magic ability. If you look back i did mention all the rest had been done before and gave examples from where. It sounded to me like you took offense to the comment. My intention was not to belittle those who use mages in their own stories. Simply to state that in my experience and reading track record I find mages of all types to be overused. 

I understand it is difficult to create something completely original these days, i mean look at mine lol


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## JCFarnham (Apr 1, 2012)

One thing you say on a couple of occasions is shapeshifting and psionic-stuff go hand in hand. How so? From where I'm sitting they seem like vastly unconnected disciplines. In comparision Weather Talking and Blade Dancing compliment each other closely, but ... well, no I can't see the link with 3 and 4.

Care to explain?

For the record I have no problem with your magic system. It's well defined, and as Devor said you could make flower arranging interesting if written in a compelling way hehe


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## kadenaz (Apr 1, 2012)

Elemental stuff has been used for so long (power rangers, avatar and every cartoon in history) that they give me no feelings any more (they actually tend to make me loose interest)


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## Amanita (Apr 1, 2012)

> I think it's really overdone and I tried to think outside of the box.


It's been mentioned before, but this comment does sound a bit condescending towars others, especially given the fact that the system your proposing is not exactly unusual. 
Magic systems don't have to be unique, how they're connected to the other aspects of your world and story is what's important. My approach has always been to use what I like to play with and make some moderations if it might endanger the story in some way. Choosing the kind of magic best for the plot in the first place is another option of course.
Actually, I can't remember reading any book where the magic system has been bothering me because it was too cliched or too unique or too detailed or too mysterious etc. The weaknesses usually lay in other aspects of the stories.

In your case, the "blade dancers" are the part I'd probably like least, beginning with the name. As mentioned above, I can't tell for sure without knowing how you're going to use it though. This feels like one of those typical game or action movie powers which create an impressive visual effect but don't do much beyond. In your case, I'm wondering what fire's doing there (besides looking cool)? The other two powers are weather-related but fire isn't really. Something connected to water/rain would seem more plausible for me, but fire looks cooler of course. 
The other two sound okay and can certainly be used for interesting purposes, depending on the situation. In case of the weather talkers, you should keep the effects in mind powers of such a scale are having on the world at large. The rain that's used for an attack is missing somewhere else where the crop is failing and so on. 

After reading your post, I'm not quite sure what you want us to do to help you. Could you clarify this a bit?
In my opinion, the interesting part of a magic system is not "they have elemental magic and they can use fire, water, air and earth" to use kadenaz' example. You can shrug an explanation like this off as "has been done too many times" and forget that the truly interesting aspects of a magic system aren't the raw powers in themselves but how they're worked into the story as a whole. These can be interesting many times, even if the basic powers are similar. That's why I'd never claim that elemental magic is overused and I'm using it myself, whith chemical elements though. 
I have to admit that I've only read one actual book featuring elemental magic, Jim Butcher's Codex Alera and I really liked how it was used there, therefore I can't claim that it's so overused. I can understand why someone wouldn't pick up a book with elemental magic in it, I don't want to read anything featuring Orcs that isn't LotR either. 
The same goes for any other common magical power such as necromancy, demonology, using wands and spell books and so on. The sceleton of the power doesn't make an interesting or cliched story, the flesh around it does.


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## Rullenzar (Apr 1, 2012)

Amanita said:


> In your case, the "blade dancers" are the part I'd probably like least, beginning with the name. As mentioned above, I can't tell for sure without knowing how you're going to use it though. This feels like one of those typical game or action movie powers which create an impressive visual effect but don't do much beyond. In your case, I'm wondering what fire's doing there (besides looking cool)? The other two powers are weather-related but fire isn't really. Something connected to water/rain would seem more plausible for me, but fire looks cooler of course.
> The other two sound okay and can certainly be used for interesting purposes, depending on the situation. In case of the weather talkers, you should keep the effects in mind powers of such a scale are having on the world at large. The rain that's used for an attack is missing somewhere else where the crop is failing and so on.
> 
> After reading your post, I'm not quite sure what you want us to do to help you. Could you clarify this a bit?
> ...




You said you don't know what I'm asking for but you've done a great job and have already given me what I'm looking for. The general opinion on my system is it's too gamey rpg-ish in style. So, I have a lot of rethinking to do as that is not how I'd like my readers to perceive my novel. The note about my weather talkers and the effects on the worlds ecosystem has been considered. I have rules in my world for each class of magic and one of those rules states that Weather talkers can't just go around using their abilities willy nilly disrupting the balance of nature.

My comments about the over usage of mages seems to have struck a cord with many so i'll be editing that out as it was not my intention.

Much of my story is not set in stone yet, including my magical system. I'm able to adapt the systems to my world. This system I have posted is just one of the systems I have been thinking about using but clearly it needs some work from the feedback I'm receiving. I thought people would like the sounds of my Blade dancers but apparently it's the least liked of the bunch.


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## Rullenzar (Apr 1, 2012)

JCFarnham said:


> One thing you say on a couple of occasions is shapeshifting and psionic-stuff go hand in hand. How so? From where I'm sitting they seem like vastly unconnected disciplines. In comparision Weather Talking and Blade Dancing compliment each other closely, but ... well, no I can't see the link with 3 and 4.
> 
> Care to explain?
> 
> For the record I have no problem with your magic system. It's well defined, and as Devor said you could make flower arranging interesting if written in a compelling way hehe



Really the only link is that shifters prefer communicating via mind when setting up ambushes instead of howling at each other giving away their locations. Many seem to feel the same so it merits rethinking on my part. I appreciate all the feedback because this is what helps me define a system worthy of reading and believing in.


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## Ankari (Apr 11, 2012)

I have always been a believer in balance.  Your magic system looks good but I don't see what the drawbacks are for utilizing them.  For instance, if you are using _Fire Dancing_ I could see the user being vulnerable to cold attacks.  This would be same with _Ice Dancing_.  The problem would be the _Lightening Dancing_.  I could see this form as a higher form of _Blade Dancing_ that only requires rigorous training.   

_Weather Talking_ seems to be very powerful, an art that immediately conjures an image of the forbidden.  _Weather Talkers_, in my mind, would be the class of magic users that would not be accepted in society.  They would be hunted down and killed for the knowledge they pursue.  I am not saying that they are evil, but they would be hated.  You could have two factions of _Weather Talkers_, one which is good and seek to clear their name and the other who hates society for the persecution they endure and wish to beat society into accepting them.

_Shape Shifting_ is a great art, one that doesn't require too much balancing.  Just make it believable.  Although it was cool, Steven Erickson used the _Veering_ ability from human form to dragon form and other forms.  The problem with this was that the total mass of the new form was way too large compared to the starting mass.  I never understood this.  It would be a good balance to state that the user can only shift with the same mass.

That's my two cents, don't spend it all in one place!


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