# Tropes: Favorite/Least Favorite?



## evolution_rex (Apr 4, 2017)

What are some of your favorite tropes, and what are some that you just can't stand? Can be broad or small, popular or obscure. Doesn't have to be specific to fantasy (also I'd like to avoid discussing tropes regarding racial/sexist stereotypes because I feel that is a whole other thread).

I think the popular one everyone likes to rag on is the Tolkien elf that gets repeated over and over in fantasy, and I have to agree that it's one of my least favorite tropes in the genre. I do however a have big soft spot of the classic wise Wizard archetype as long as the writer builds an interesting enough character.


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## Ban (Apr 4, 2017)

Favorite: Leatherclad, colorfully haired bikers in post-apocalyptic settings. 

I don't use them in my own post-apocalyptic world because I like to keep my worldbuilding strongly within the realm of reason, but I love the aesthetic of this. If a post-apocalyptic setting has these Mad Max ripoffs I am more than willing to forgive the fact that motor oil has an average shelf life of less than 2 digits. I'm also more than willing to accept that the post-apocalyptic world somehow has enough hair gel and hair dye for entire civilizations, yet not enough other resources to keep small groups moderately satisfied.

Least Favorite: The prophecy foretold of an annoying manchild or actual child with no intresting traits who would inexplicably be loved by many and who was somehow good at everything he did despite lacking any experience or skill. (No idea why people still write these)


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## Demesnedenoir (Apr 4, 2017)

Honestly, I don't think there is a good or bad trope, there is only good or bad execution.


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## Demesnedenoir (Apr 4, 2017)

And what if this annoying manchild lives in a post-apocalyptic car crashing world with spiked green and purple hair and a completely over the top razor-wire dog collar? heh heh.



Banten said:


> Favorite: Leatherclad, colorfully haired bikers in post-apocalyptic settings.
> 
> I don't use them in my own post-apocalyptic world because I like to keep my worldbuilding strongly within the realm of reason, but I love the aesthetic of this. If a post-apocalyptic setting has these Mad Max ripoffs I am more than willing to forgive the fact that motor oil has an average shelf life of less than 2 digits. I'm also more than willing to accept that the post-apocalyptic world somehow has enough hair gel and hair dye for entire civilizations, yet not enough other resources to keep small groups moderately satisfied.
> 
> Least Favorite: The prophecy foretold of an annoying manchild or actual child with no intresting traits who would inexplicably be loved by many and who was somehow good at everything he did despite lacking any experience or skill. (No idea why people still write these)


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## Ban (Apr 4, 2017)

Demesnedenoir said:


> And what if this annoying manchild lives in a post-apocalyptic car crashing world with spiked green and purple hair and a completely over the top razor-wire dog collar? heh heh.



As long as he's not bafflingly good at riding a motorcycle on his first try, I'm willing to live with it. But he better have some really funky hair color or else I'm done!


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## skip.knox (Apr 4, 2017)

Like Night's Domain, I think tropes are nonsense. There is good writing and bad writing. Period.

I get a little irked by the whole notion of tropes. I smells a bit of smugness. Not from the many people here who refer to and worry over them. That's just earnestness. But the literary types who "discover" them and write about them (I'm looking at you, TV tropes) have an air of superiority and condescension that rubs me the wrong way. 

BTW, @Banten might be glad to learn that in my queue of novels is one entitled Tuck the Unchosen. I intend to have some good fun with the whole business of prophecies.


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## Gryphos (Apr 4, 2017)

I live for the moments when a character says the name of the movie in the movie. That's my favourite trope, hands down.


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## glutton (Apr 4, 2017)

Favorite: Ultra badass female warrior, often covered in scars, who is more physically formidable than most guys and performs over the top feats in battle

Least favorite: The character set up as a badass female warrior being relegated to a damsel in distress or passive character in favor of a male MC


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## FifthView (Apr 4, 2017)

So what's the official trope title of that character, buddy/friend/offspring of the MC, who always does the wrong thing, typically for selfish reasons but sometimes with good intentions, that exists only to keep conflict, twists of fortune (for the worse), etc. in the story?

I'm looking at you, Jack Bauer's daughter. And you, Julia Wicker in _The Magicians_.

Hate that trope. If indeed trope it is.

Also: World is falling apart in real time, but let's stop for a few minutes to have a heart-to-heart chat, come clean, reassure each other of our undying love.  Again, trope? Or simply device? 

Perhaps a bit more on topic...I'm in agreement. Tropes probably aren't inherently good or bad; it's the execution.  That said, some tropes apparently come so quickly to the writer's mind, and many writers so naturally choose what comes immediately to mind (so it seems), and this combo leads to oversaturation. I do hate the _easiness_, when I see it.

I recently watched some "reaction" videos on Youtube, which can be a good practice if you are ever interested in how various people will react to particular things. The Flash S3E17 episode "Duet" had some mixed reactions... 



Spoiler: Big spoiler for end



One reviewer believed that the true-love kiss saving the day might be sappy but he loved it anyway because, duh, "It's a musical." Others groaned. Some hated it.



—There might be a fine line between purposeful campiness and accidental campiness, with respect to using lots of familiar tropes, in examples like this, although I think the creators of The Flash and Supergirl did okay here. But some people like that sort of thing and others hate it.


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## Ireth (Apr 4, 2017)

FifthView said:


> So what's the official trope title of that character, buddy/friend/offspring of the MC, who always does the wrong thing, typically for selfish reasons but sometimes with good intentions, that exists only to keep conflict, twists of fortune (for the worse), etc. in the story?
> 
> I'm looking at you, Jack Bauer's daughter. And you, Julia Wicker in _The Magicians_.
> 
> Hate that trope. If indeed trope it is.



Seems like either the Bumbling Sidekick or The Load.


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## FifthView (Apr 4, 2017)

Ireth said:


> Seems like either the Bumbling Sidekick or The Load.



The Load comes closer to describing this character role, of the two. In _The Americans_, one of my favorite shows, the daughter is coming perilously close to being this type of character for me. Come to think of it, this is often the case with teenage characters in action or high stakes types of stories, where they are always running off and getting into trouble or sometimes believing they are being helpful but always, always cause more trouble for the other main characters.  Julia in _The Magicians_ is a YA version, although she's a little different from the other examples—still, about 98% of every decision she makes and every action she takes is the _wrong_ one. Super annoying. These characters almost always get a free pass from the MCs, or are going to be loved nonetheless.


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## Chessie (Apr 4, 2017)

Gryphos said:


> I live for the moments when a character says the name of the movie in the movie. That's my favourite trope, hands down.



Omg! I love this, too! In one of my historical novels, the heroine says the book's name lol. But I see this more as a cliche than a trope, since it's not an actual plot device.

Fave tropes:
-arranged marriage 
-marriage of convenience
-black widows/ black magic woman
-anti-heroes
-ice queen
-fling to forever relationships
-stranded 
-magical items

These are but a few...I do love tropes.


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## La Volpe (Apr 4, 2017)

Gryphos said:


> I live for the moments when a character says the name of the movie in the movie. That's my favourite trope, hands down.



"Roll credits." (for those who know what that's from)

--

As for mine, it's a bit muddled. And I'm not sure I'm staying on the 'trope' line here, but whatever.

I enjoy a good "stupid weakling who becomes badass" character, but the first part of that person is usually really annoying, so it's a win-lose situation. I also quite like the Beserker trope, but I've never been able to fit one into any of my stories.

My least favourite: Characters that make selfish decisions and then somehow get seen as good people for doing so. E.g. if a guy (let's call him A) tries to sacrifice his life to stop an evil whatnot from getting free, but then another guy (B) stops him because he doesn't want A to die. Then the evil gets free, and B is seen as being noble for having saved A's life.


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## evolution_rex (Apr 4, 2017)

Gryphos said:


> I live for the moments when a character says the name of the movie in the movie. That's my favourite trope, hands down.


I love this when done properly, but often it's not. For example, I saw the trailer for the upcoming War of the Planet of the Apes and Woody Harrelson says something along the lines of 'or this will become the Planet of the Apes' and I just busted out laughing.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Apr 4, 2017)

Ooh! Nice topic. 

Fave tropes...hmm. 

I'm an absolute sucker for dragon riders, as overdone as they are. Super hot/handsome villains...uhh yaaasss. Anything where characters who hate each other are forced to work together. Also, anything where a tough/asshole character is forced to display their soft side and turns out to be a complete marshmallow. 

Sarcastic narrators. Animal sidekicks (especially if it's a dragon.) Arranged marriages...And I sometimes say girl-disguises-as-boy stories are annoying, but i've really loved a lot of them and I still am very attracted to the concept so...

Any story that's about a magical/mythical/fantastical creatures naturalist. 

I find myself becoming enamored of totally-mundane-character-plunged-into-magical-world. 

I love sympathetic villains, especially if I sympathize with them even though they're really evil. I also love egregiously sadistic villains if they are given depth and dimension (Dolores Umbridge and Count Rugen are a couple of my favorite ever characters, lol.) 

Winged beings of any kind. (Unless they're fairies.) 

Hey, are we talking about tropes we like to write, or tropes we like to read? 

Hmm. Least favorite? 

Fantasy based on medieval Europe. Elves and dwarves bore me. Rebellions that are rebelling against an ambiguous government that's supposed to be oppressive but actually isn't, and is just headed by a supposedly evil guy. Love triangles. Black and white morality (especially villains that are just pure evil with no depth or personality.) Heroes whose only character flaw is being short-tempered and headstrong. 

Killing a character early in the story, before we get to know them, and then expecting readers to care...? 

Last but not least, FLASHBACKS! Loathe them. Especially in the first chapter... 

(I'm a hypocrite though. I have an entire-chapter-long flashback in my WIP. It's necessary though, and I made it obvious so as not to be confusing.)


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## La Volpe (Apr 4, 2017)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> Also, anything where a tough/asshole character is forced to display their soft side and turns out to be a complete marshmallow.



This feels like a trope that I don't like, but it's okay if it's not too smeared on, I guess. But even then, I avoid it where possible.



> I find myself becoming enamored of totally-mundane-character-plunged-into-magical-world.



Ah, yes, I like this as well. Portal fantasy, it's called, if I recall correctly.



> I love sympathetic villains, especially if I sympathize with them even though they're really evil. I also love egregiously sadistic villains if they are given depth and dimension (Dolores Umbridge and Count Rugen are a couple of my favorite ever characters, lol.)



I find myself sometimes liking the pure evil kind of villains. I.e. the kind that you can't understand. It's all the rage these days to have your villains have moral conflicts and stuff (which is generally a good thing), but I sometimes like a villain that is just so completely alien in behaviour and morals that it becomes less than human and more terrifying.



> Hey, are we talking about tropes we like to write, or tropes we like to read?



Well, I generally don't want to write tropes that I don't want to read, and vice versa, so both lists would probably be identical.



> Rebellions that are rebelling against an ambiguous government that's supposed to be oppressive but actually isn't, and is just headed by a supposedly evil guy.



How do you feel about rebellions against an oppressive government which eventually turns out to have oppressed the people in order to save them?


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## Michael K. Eidson (Apr 4, 2017)

The tropes I like the most are: kickass female action heroine (Dark Angel would be my favorite television version of this); sentient swords that have a mind of their own (e.g., Stormbringer); and well-defined, internally-consistent magic systems (as in Mistborn).

The tropes I like the least include a lot of the ones already mentioned by others (especially evil for the sake of evil). But the absolute worst one for me is one that's used in Star Trek a lot, where something horribly-horribly-horribly bad happens, and time travel is used to create a paradox, thus erasing history and undoing the horribly-horribly-horribly bad thing. These writers don't get it that if time travel were used, the results of what happened during the time travel stint would already be a part of history.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Apr 4, 2017)

Michael K. Eidson said:


> The tropes I like the most are: kickass female action heroine (Dark Angel would be my favorite television version of this); sentient swords that have a mind of their own (e.g., Stormbringer); and well-defined, internally-consistent magic systems (as in Mistborn).
> 
> The tropes I like the least include a lot of the ones already mentioned by others (especially evil for the sake of evil). But the absolute worst one for me is one that's used in Star Trek a lot, where something horribly-horribly-horribly bad happens, and time travel is used to create a paradox, thus erasing history and undoing the horribly-horribly-horribly bad thing. These writers don't get it that if time travel were used, the results of what happened during the time travel stint would already be a part of history.



I typically hate time travel of any kind, period.


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## Michael K. Eidson (Apr 4, 2017)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> I typically hate time travel of any kind, period.



I love time travel when it's done right. "Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure" got it right, and they weren't even taking themselves seriously, so it shouldn't be that hard to do. But many authors fail at it.


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## evolution_rex (Apr 4, 2017)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> Hey, are we talking about tropes we like to write, or tropes we like to read?


Both.

I made this thread because I've been researching tropes a lot recently because I've that knowing them is incredibly helpful for building stories. They're tools more than anything, if you know one you can use it or subvert it. They're like little Lego blocks that when compiled together create a story.


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## Chessie (Apr 4, 2017)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> I typically hate time travel of any kind, period.


Can we not get into bashing creativity here? It begins in this very way ("I hate this...") and the conversations get heated, time after time.



Tropes are instrumental in communicating with readers. It's how we do so in the first place: the reader recognizes a trope and is secured on the type of story they're reading.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Apr 4, 2017)

Chessie said:


> Can we not get into bashing creativity here? It begins in this very way ("I hate this...") and the conversations get heated, time after time.
> 
> 
> 
> Tropes are instrumental in communicating with readers. It's how we do so in the first place: the reader recognizes a trope and is secured on the type of story they're reading.



It's a topic about favorite and least favorite tropes. That's my opinion about a particular trope.^ I'm not sure how you're getting  bashing creativity or tropes as a whole from that.


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## EmilyMcIntyre (Apr 4, 2017)

Least favorite has to be the basic sexist trope of the vixen/slut, coupled with a typical male hero character. Oh but there's the OVERDONE "Chosen One" (I was bitching today with my cousin, who's also into fantasy hardcore, about how ludicrous it is that the chosen one is always totally underserving, whiny, and otherwise uninspiring.) Just once I'd like to see it not work out for the chosen one, or somebody prove that nobody needs a chosen one.

Favorite... I really enjoy the classic Wise Fool and Sad Clown archetype. I love how this trope almost any time it's referenced immediately offers the concept that there's more to anyone than meets the eye. How sadness is laced with joy, and vice versa.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Apr 5, 2017)

All this makes me wonder what our favorite tropes say about us.


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## Ban (Apr 5, 2017)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> All this makes me wonder what our favorite tropes say about us.




That I want to change my haircolor and drive wildly around in a wasteland?


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## Draconianwriting (Apr 5, 2017)

there are an incredible amount of different tropes out there. i am honestly not sure which one to choose, but there are certainly many ways to find new ones for writing stories. my favorite is tvtropes. i have spent quite a number of hours looking around of it.


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## FifthView (Apr 5, 2017)

I have difficulty isolating favorite tropes because most good examples have bad examples, so execution and other factors play a major role in my enjoyment. But I'll shoot off a few:

In the fantasy genre, I do love the whole training-up/magic school/battle school trope.

I love the underdog kid who becomes enmeshed in an epic struggle.

I love the nurturing mother or father figure, the loyal friend, the band of brothers.

I love the minor villain who transitions into a type of antihero as the story progresses–not as MC but side character.

I love mysterious lands outside the main land, with strange magics and inhabitants and histories. I like for those lands to remain somewhat mysterious, no matter what else happens involving those lands.

I trend toward elemental, innate magic rather than the learned type. It's not recipes learned from a library of books.


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## evolution_rex (Apr 5, 2017)

EmilyMcIntyre said:


> Favorite... I really enjoy the classic Wise Fool and Sad Clown archetype.





FifthView said:


> I love the underdog kid who becomes enmeshed in an epic struggle.
> 
> I love the minor villain who transitions into a type of antihero as the story progresses—not as MC but side character.


Yes! I love these.


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## Seira (Apr 7, 2017)

I don't know of there is a good or bad trope in any Genre because I think if they're done well all can be quite good and useful and of cause cliche are cliche because they work.

I get a bit bored of the one prophecy but again that's because of the writer not because of the trope itself.


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## Annoyingkid (Apr 8, 2017)

Not sure about most favourite, but least favourite is "Man with boobs".

Topics like these: https://mythicscribes.com/forums/wr...er-female-characters-*-lets-keep-civil-*.html

OP:
_
 I think Debra Morgan, Jennifer Carpenter who should have won an award for her role, is a great example of a female character with agency, who kicks ass without being a man with boobs. _

_In one way Debra Morgan plays into the stereotypes of a woman. She is very emotional and often makes choices based off those emotions. She deeply wants to have a meaningfull relationship with her brother, she has daddy issues and regrets not having a meaningful relationship with her father. She needs to be rescued. She really wants the approval of others._

Because a female character  who makes decisions based on logic  not emotion is really a man. Only possibility. Don't need rescuing? Must be a man. Not pining for a relationship with a man? You kidding? Total *man*.


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## Aryth (Apr 8, 2017)

I get excited about stories where characters are thrown into new cultures/lands. Not only am I exploring a fantasy world the author has created, but the main character is exploring as well. 

Survival stories are really fun. I love watching characters think outside of the box and become resourceful to overcome challenges. 

To be honest, once I read the word "prophecy" within the first chapter, my interest in the book deflates. Perhaps I just haven't read enough solid fiction that involves prophecy.


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## Malik (Apr 8, 2017)

Least favorite: The Lost Prince. 

If there's an orphan in a fantasy novel, you know goddamn well he's The Lost ****in' Prince. Bonus points if he fulfills a prophecy along the way.






All time favorite: The Combat Pragmatist.


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## TheCrystallineEntity (Apr 9, 2017)

> But the literary types who "discover" them and write about them (I'm looking at you, TV tropes) have an air of superiority and condescension that rubs me the wrong way.



I agree. I went on TV Tropes for awhile, to check it out, and then felt rather annoyed by it all [especially since naming everything as a trope kind of takes the joy out of writing].


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## evolution_rex (Apr 9, 2017)

I feel no such sense of superiority at TV Tropes, in fact they spend a good deal of time explaining why tropes are not inherently bad and that they should be used as tools. Yes, they write their articles humorously but it never feels like it's mean spirited in my opinion. They're just people revealing patterns in storytelling, and knowing those patterns can come in handy.


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## Chessie (Apr 9, 2017)

evolution_rex said:


> I feel no such sense of superiority at TV Tropes, in fact they spend a good deal of time explaining why tropes are not inherently bad and that they should be used as tools. Yes, they write their articles humorously but it never feels like it's mean spirited in my opinion. They're just people revealing patterns in storytelling, and knowing those patterns can come in handy.



Agreed. TV tropes is actually a very useful tool. Basically, tropes= plot devices. Don't use them if you don't want a plot. J/s. Also, tropes help writers effectively communicate with their audience. It's the execution that really counts.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Apr 9, 2017)

evolution_rex said:


> I feel no such sense of superiority at TV Tropes, in fact they spend a good deal of time explaining why tropes are not inherently bad and that they should be used as tools. Yes, they write their articles humorously but it never feels like it's mean spirited in my opinion. They're just people revealing patterns in storytelling, and knowing those patterns can come in handy.



Their articles aren't mean-spirited. It's just a bit disconcerting to learn that everything is made up of tropes and that there are no truly original ideas, I suppose. But it is the truth. 

TvTropes has given me some good ideas at times, or just food for thought.

^edit: in fact knowing your tropes can help you know how to be MORE original by repurposing tropes or using them in an unusual way. Or just exposing you to tropes it's never occurred to you to use. 

You see, the upside of there being no truly original ideas is that there are a LOOOOOOOOOT of ideas. And nearly infinite ways to combine them into stories.


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## Devor (Apr 9, 2017)

I don't think there's anything wrong with tvtropes.  They're interesting.  They can be fun.  It can also be a huge time-sink, like wikipedia on hyperdrive, with all of the embedded links, if you let it.

Whether it's useful is another question.  I think that depends on what you use it for.  I personally enjoy reading about tropes such as the five-man band, or evil empire, or character roles such as the muscle, the dragon, the lancer, or 6th ranger.  It's useful, for me, to consider which kind of role different characters take in a group, or even a conversation, and especially to think about where there's still room to add new characters.

As an aside, I wrote articles Rebooting the Chosen One and the Dark Lord, both of which are kind of my favorite and least favorite tropes at the same time.


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## valiant12 (Apr 10, 2017)

I love sci fi tropes.
I think I have mentioned it alredy how much I love FTL ships, diflector shilds, bio punk organic space ships, clonings, AI, crazy AI, not so crasy AI, nono tecnology, huge lasers etc.


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## Tort76 (Apr 11, 2017)

Dragons favorite and hated trope.  Wise or just a beast.  Good or bad.  Is it really a trope but fantasy without dragons are they really fantasy, but a dragon automatically kicks you to fantasy


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mike Chara (Apr 19, 2017)

I found it mildly amusing that the last two books I read (Dawnthief, Magician), have the quintessential Gandalf within the first chapter, with a pipe smoking wizard. Doesn't make them less fun if they're done right though, have to say I agree with desmon above: it's all about how well the writer does it.


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## scribbler (Apr 19, 2017)

I'm a complete sucker for a bad ass coming out of retirement for one last adventure.  For example, David Gemmell's Druss or William Munny from the movie, Unforgiven.  

As for least favorite trope, any one of them can be tedious if done poorly.


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## Malik (Apr 19, 2017)

Clint Eastwood's depiction of Bill Munny was amazing.


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## FifthView (Apr 19, 2017)

scribbler said:


> I'm a complete sucker for a bad ass coming out of retirement for one last adventure.  For example, David Gemmell's Druss or William Munny from the movie, Unforgiven.



Great trope. That's one I want to play with sometime, but haven't yet.


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## scribbler (Apr 19, 2017)

Forgiven is one of my favorite movies.  The slow build up of the stories about Bill's past, and then when he finally opens a can of whoop ass is amazing.


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## Chessie (Apr 19, 2017)

scribbler said:


> I'm a complete sucker for a bad ass coming out of retirement for one last adventure.  For example, David Gemmell's Druss or William Munny from the movie, Unforgiven.
> 
> As for least favorite trope, any one of them can be tedious if done poorly.


Mark Wahlberg's "Shooter" is a perfect example of this trope done *awesomely* well. LOVE that movie.


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## evolution_rex (Apr 19, 2017)

I typically don't like the prophecy trope, but I must say I'm a big fan of occasions when there's a twist to it, such as in Game of Thrones where we don't quite know who the prophecy is referring to, or in Star Wars where they believe Anakin has failed the prophecy when in reality he still came through in the end.


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## Devor (Apr 19, 2017)

I was thinking about this recently.  I think the thing that infuriates me the most is when a character does something really awful, and people find out, but the outrage is short lived and it ends up being shuffled under the rug.  I don't mean characters who have a redemption arc - Zuko or Jamie and some others (where other characters continue to despise them long after their turning point) - but when murders and crimes just get overlooked for the sake of the plot or to keep the story from weighing down.

I think you see it in shows more than books because they have more pressure to keep certain actors in the cast.

TVTropes calls it a Karma Houdini.


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## Creed (Apr 20, 2017)

Favourite tropes:

The Genius Loci, when a location has a mind or spirit. This can be so cool!

Tarot symbology, or tarot character archetypes. They carry the aesthetic of tarot and the occult, and really add to an atmosphere in fantasy. Really great for foreshadowing, like The Tower.

I love mysteries that are about events far, far in the past - like millennia. The unravelling of ancient secrets, the puzzle pieces of events falling into place... I wrote a lengthy post once about how this is the key to unlocking my sense of wonder.

Also I adore revenge stories where the drive for vengeance pushes a character beyond all natural limits. I've got a plan to write one of those and I am super excited for it. Also excited to re-read The Dark Tower books!

I really dislike child geniuses like Kvothe, though that turned out to be a fun read. There are few tropes I dislike on the face of it, others are unforgivable, such as Bury Your Gays and variants with other easy targets. They still crop up, unfortunately.


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## Demesnedenoir (Apr 20, 2017)

I don't like Kvothe, nor do I dislike Kvothe, I simply don't care about Kvothe or one lick of his story, LOL. I've tried to read that book several times, maybe someday I'll make it to the end, but I've begun to question that. It boooores me. No trope to blame, heh heh.


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## Creed (Apr 20, 2017)

Demesnedenoir said:


> I don't like Kvothe, nor do I dislike Kvothe, I simply don't care about Kvothe or one lick of his story, LOL. I've tried to read that book several times, maybe someday I'll make it to the end, but I've begun to question that. It boooores me. No trope to blame, heh heh.



Sure, but for me the very presence of child geniuses is irksome in fiction. I can get behind children being creative to solve problems, but that was not Kvothe's story. It was also annoying how the trope just dropped, and he forgot all of his skills in magic for hand-wavium plot reasons. I suppose this is a caveat that we should remain consistent with character tropes we are using, or be reasonable and creative when we decide to make a transformation.


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## gia (Apr 20, 2017)

Geesus, I'm such a newbie I didn't even know what a trope is. Not sure I get it yet. But if this is a trope, I sure do hate it the most...the character getting kicked in the balls in some way. Only used in movies. As a point of comedy. Yawn.


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## Ban (Apr 20, 2017)

Demesnedenoir said:


> I don't like Kvothe, nor do I dislike Kvothe, I simply don't care about Kvothe or one lick of his story, LOL. I've tried to read that book several times, maybe someday I'll make it to the end, but I've begun to question that. It boooores me. No trope to blame, heh heh.



As someone who loves the Kingkiller Chronicles I have to say that I do kind of agree. Kvothe is just... eh. Personally I read these books mostly because the writing is so pretty. The story clicked with me (except for that horrible felurian part) but it could honestly have been about Kvothe wandering around the flat Danish countryside and I would still have read it because of the prose. Perhaps if you look at it like that you might be able to get through it.


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## Demesnedenoir (Apr 20, 2017)

Rothfuss's prose is good, the only reason I gave it a shot after the first 50 pages. But I expect good writing, if it's not good I don't read it. I also don't just a expect a good story, I expect a good story told well, this where I think Rothfuss fails me. A few hundred pages in... I mean, 1st person should theoretically get you to relate to the character, but not even close. And Rothfuss's 3rd person is inferior to his 1st prose. 

Yeah, I expect to finish it someday, but g'grief. Every time I encounter a character retelling another character's story inside of a story... I have to take a couple months off. 

But hey, that's all another topic.



Banten said:


> As someone who loves the Kingkiller Chronicles I have to say that I do kind of agree. Kvothe is just... eh. Personally I read these books mostly because the writing is so pretty. The story clicked with me (except for that horrible felurian part) but it could honestly have been about Kvothe wandering around the flat Danish countryside and I would still have read it because of the prose. Perhaps if you look at it like that you might be able to get through it.


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## Tom (Apr 20, 2017)

Ah, Rothfuss......I have a love-hate relationship with his books. I enjoy his style and characters but his writing is so...slow...and relies too heavily on tropes that he doesn't really expand on. 

I'd have to say that my favorite trope is ancient world settings, whether in their peak or after they've been gone for centuries. I had a fascination with ancient cultures as a kid, and I'm still a sucker for a good Roman/Greek analogue or a world with a long-fallen dead empire and scatterings of massive ruins. I also enjoy "disguised quest object" plots. Those are fun. Especially when the quest object in question turns out to be a person in the hero's party or even the hero themselves.

As for least favorite, hm. There are quite a few tropes that I don't necessarily despise, but also don't exactly cheer when I see used. The biggest one is probably the dividing of different cultures/races into good and evil. Not only is it a bit...problematic, but it also allows no room for development of the two forces beyond "these people are good" and "these people are evil". Probably my biggest beef with Tolkien, to be honest, despite my love of LOTR. 

The Farmboy Chosen One trope is another one I dislike, not for what it is in and of itself, but for how often it crops up in fantasy fiction. Please, for the love of god. I'd like to see more protagonists in a typical Hero's Journey plot who don't start out a farmer/villager/orphan with Mysteriously Deceased Parents.


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## Aryth (Apr 21, 2017)

*raises hand* I'm yet another person who tried and failed to get past the second chapter of _The Name of the Wind._ 
From the comments above it sounds like it...might...be worth trying again? I feel like the reviews are mixed.


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## Demesnedenoir (Apr 21, 2017)

If you didn't get any further... it's really iffy if you'd make it. You might give it at least until you're into the first person... the prose gets better there. After that, just personal taste. His choice of how to tell the story just doesn't work for me. Could be a good story, but the presentation is an oh g'grief for me.



Aryth said:


> *raises hand* I'm yet another person who tried and failed to get past the second chapter of _The Name of the Wind._
> From the comments above it sounds like it...might...be worth trying again? I feel like the reviews are mixed.


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## lonelyboy1977 (Apr 23, 2017)

I hate "The Love Triangle" with a burning passion. Specifically, I hate the triangle which is based around a female protagonist "torn" between to male characters (in reality leading them both on). The most egregious aspect of this trope is that one of the suitors is always a so-called "Bad Boy" who is invariably possessive, controlling and abusive, which inexplicably makes him irresistible to the heroine; whereas, on the other hand, the second suitor is always a so-called "Nice Guy" who is caring, considerate and loyal, yet somehow this means he is a boring loser who is incapable of stirring the heroine's passions. (In other words he is far to good for her.) Three guesses as to which of the two suitors always wins in this scenario. 

Before anyone asks; yes, I am a very bitter "Nice Guy" who always lost out to the "Bad Boy" and that may have influenced my feelings towards this particular trope.


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## glutton (Apr 23, 2017)

lonelyboy1977 said:


> I hate "The Love Triangle" with a burning passion. Specifically, I hate the triangle which is based around a female protagonist "torn" between to male characters (in reality leading them both on). The most egregious aspect of this trope is that one of the suitors is always a so-called "Bad Boy" who is invariably possessive, controlling and abusive, which inexplicably makes him irresistible to the heroine; whereas, on the other hand, the second suitor is always a so-called "Nice Guy" who is caring, considerate and loyal, yet somehow this means he is a boring loser who is incapable of stirring the heroine's passions. (In other words he is far to good for her.) Three guesses as to which of the two suitors always wins in this scenario.
> 
> Before anyone asks; yes, I am a very bitter "Nice Guy" who always lost out to the "Bad Boy" and that may have influenced my feelings towards this particular trope.



I would like to see a twist on this where the heroine chooses the nice guy for the sake of the bad boy, because she feels that long term the bad boy's ego wouldn't be able to handle her being the "alpha" in the relationship.


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## Ireth (Apr 23, 2017)

glutton said:


> I would like to see a twist on this where the heroine chooses the nice guy for the sake of the bad boy, because she feels that long term the bad boy's ego wouldn't be able to handle her being the "alpha" in the relationship.



I personally want to see a story where the two guys realize they were only fighting over the girl because they were trying to impress each other, so they hook up while the girl remains single and happy. XD


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## TheCrystallineEntity (Apr 23, 2017)

> s that one of the suitors is always a so-called "Bad Boy" who is invariably possessive, controlling and abusive, which inexplicably makes him irresistible to the heroine; whereas, on the other hand, the second suitor is always a so-called "Nice Guy" who is caring, considerate and loyal, yet somehow this means he is a boring loser who is incapable of stirring the heroine's passions.



Oh, yes, I can't stand that either. The only love triangle that I genuinely liked was a bit of a twist because the two guys and girl are all in love with each other. Also, the 'bad boy' persona that the first guy creates is deconstructed in that, by thinking that he is under a curse that will kill anyone he cares about, he destroys any and all relationships with the people who actually care about him-! The second guy, the 'nice guy', is so kind and caring because he is dying from a combination of demon poison received while tortured and a drug to combat the poison that is also killing him--that is, he never wants anyone to experience what he experienced, and so is unfailing kind to everyone as a result. 

Ireth: That sounds like a great idea to me!


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Apr 23, 2017)

lonelyboy1977 said:


> I hate "The Love Triangle" with a burning passion. Specifically, I hate the triangle which is based around a female protagonist "torn" between to male characters (in reality leading them both on). The most egregious aspect of this trope is that one of the suitors is always a so-called "Bad Boy" who is invariably possessive, controlling and abusive, which inexplicably makes him irresistible to the heroine; whereas, on the other hand, the second suitor is always a so-called "Nice Guy" who is caring, considerate and loyal, yet somehow this means he is a boring loser who is incapable of stirring the heroine's passions. (In other words he is far to good for her.) Three guesses as to which of the two suitors always wins in this scenario.
> 
> Before anyone asks; yes, I am a very bitter "Nice Guy" who always lost out to the "Bad Boy" and that may have influenced my feelings towards this particular trope.



Every. YA. Novel. Ever.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Apr 23, 2017)

Ireth said:


> I personally want to see a story where the two guys realize they were only fighting over the girl because they were trying to impress each other, so they hook up while the girl remains single and happy. XD



I'd read that. Anyone wanna write it, or do I have to do this one myself also?


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## TheCrystallineEntity (Apr 23, 2017)

^Um...Well...that makes me feel a bit guilty. I'll see what I can do, I guess.


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## evolution_rex (Apr 23, 2017)

Here's a good one:

I love it when a minor, lovable, comic relief character becomes integral to the plot at a crucial moment or is thrown into the forefront of the plot after being largely ignored/useless for the rest of the story. Works best in series rather than one-offs.

What I love about it is that the character is lovable, and you wish you saw more of him/her, but obviously the whole story can't focus around him. So when the story briefly explores their side of things, it's immensely satisfying.


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## Ireth (Apr 23, 2017)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> Every. YA. Novel. Ever.



Not mine!  Two of my YA novels have no love interest at all for the hero or heroine; the third has the heroine in a happy and committed relationship with another woman.


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## TheCrystallineEntity (Apr 23, 2017)

^What's the third book titled, if I can ask quickly before I go to bed; just that little description got me interested!


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## Ireth (Apr 23, 2017)

TheCrystallineEntity said:


> ^What's the third book titled, if I can ask quickly before I go to bed; just that little description got me interested!



Its working title is Song of the Sea. I'm trying to find a different one because that's also the title of a recent-ish movie about selkies. My book's about merfolk. ^^


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Apr 23, 2017)

TheCrystallineEntity said:


> ^Um...Well...that makes me feel a bit guilty. I'll see what I can do, I guess.



I have far too many ideas in my head begging to be written.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Apr 23, 2017)

Ireth said:


> Not mine!  Two of my YA novels have no love interest at all for the hero or heroine; the third has the heroine in a happy and committed relationship with another woman.



I like the occasional romance-free YA story.


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## Tom (Apr 24, 2017)

Ireth said:


> Its working title is Song of the Sea. I'm trying to find a different one because that's also the title of a recent-ish movie about selkies. My book's about merfolk. ^^



I can't wait to read this one, Ireth! What you've shared of it is wonderful. I love how unique your merfolk are. 

As an aside, I love _Song of the Sea_. Such a beautifully animated movie.


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## Ireth (Apr 24, 2017)

Tom said:


> I can't wait to read this one, Ireth! What you've shared of it is wonderful. I love how unique your merfolk are.
> 
> As an aside, I love _Song of the Sea_. Such a beautifully animated movie.



Thanks, Tom! I'm hoping to get back to working on it soon, but my focus right now is on Winter's Queen (which, incidentally, is the book I mentioned earlier with the demisexual heroine). Shouldn't be too much longer before it's agent-ready... then I have to snag said agent. XD

Aaah, I want to see that movie so baaaad. Wonder if it's on Netflix here in Canada... we don't have quite the selection as they do in the States, frustratingly. :/


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## TheCrystallineEntity (Apr 24, 2017)

^Yes, yes it is!!!! My mum watched it.


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## Creed (Apr 25, 2017)

Ireth said:


> I personally want to see a story where the two guys realize they were only fighting over the girl because they were trying to impress each other, so they hook up while the girl remains single and happy. XD



 Great idea!

We should have a flash fiction thread in the Daily Challenge section for "Trope Twisters." I'm not sure how many tropes can be spun on their head in less than, say, 300 words, but it could be fun for the MS community.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Apr 25, 2017)

Creed said:


> Great idea!
> 
> We should have a flash fiction thread in the Daily Challenge section for "Trope Twisters." I'm not sure how many tropes can be spun on their head in less than, say, 300 words, but it could be fun for the MS community.



I SECOND THIS. And third this. And fourth this.


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## Creed (Apr 26, 2017)

The Trope Twister challenge is live!

Get your blender ready and kick some trope butt!


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## Simpson17866 (May 4, 2017)

Favorite: I love Villain Protagonists — vigilante Serial Killer Killers in particular — that the narrative acknowledges as being villains (as opposed to trying to paint them as the heroes. Less _Dexter_ please, more _Death Note._)

I love series where The Bad Guy Wins every few installments

I love Subversions and Deconstructions/Reconstructions of familiar yet tired ideas

I love when Magic and Science/Technology are used together instead of kept apart ("any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from science")

I love pretty much anything to do with Snarking

Least Favorite: tend to be very politically-minded, and I should probably lurk more before trying to push the boundaries



Ireth said:


> I personally want to see a story where the two guys realize they were only fighting over the girl because they were trying to impress each other, so they hook up while the girl remains single and happy. XD


 Apparently, two women competing on a recent season of The Bachelor dropped out when they realized they'd fallen more in love with each other than with him


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