# Is it possible to write without violence?



## SeverinR (Sep 30, 2011)

On another forum,
A poster offers help to new writers without cost.

She refuses to help with any art form with violence. Not heroic violence, not good over bad violence,
just no violence. I believe she is not a fantasy writer.

Can a story in fantasy, geared for adults be written without violence?

Wouldn't that be a romance novel? Or other variations of chick flick movies?

I have written a SS about a baby dragon and it had no viokence, but it was reviewed and 90% of people said it should be a childrens story.

Can fantasy genre be written without *any* violence? 

I do intend to find a violent free chapter in some book I have written to send to her, but it will be a challenge.


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## Kelise (Sep 30, 2011)

In fantasy? Not in any book I've read, no. Honestly can't think of a single book that lacks it. Nature has violence. Everything does. Uhm. Hrm. That's another interesting one...


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## SeverinR (Sep 30, 2011)

Thats what I was thinking.

The only way to be violence free for long is to ignore the violence going on around.

Our characters don't have armor, swords, and learn offensive magic because it's shiek.

I kind of wonder if she didn't burn out writing about violence so she retired and is trying to see only the good.

Free help she can put any limits on it that she wants.  She usually has a good pov when responding to writing issues and seems to have some experience with publishing. So I don't doubt she can provide good advice.

That is a very large limit.


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## sashamerideth (Sep 30, 2011)

SeverinR said:
			
		

> On another forum,
> A poster offers help to new writers without cost.
> 
> She refuses to help with any art form with violence. Not heroic violence, not good over bad violence,
> ...



Sounds like mammamaia and I have had dealings with her before. She couldn't even form sentences that met the rules for a sentence when she tried to "help" me as well.

I have read a few fantasy books without violence but there were other, even more harrowing hardships.  There has to be conflict and jeopardy. Violence even without death is a good method for adding this conflict. 

Personally I do have some violence but most of my conflicts are emotional, which can be even more hurtful than a blade.


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## SeverinR (Sep 30, 2011)

Yatzee! or is it bingo?

I have only read her posts on subjects so I don't know how she writes, speaks or if she even if published. She sounds convincing in what she says about writing/getting published.(on the forums).
I will admit, most of what she wrote on the forums I found online, so maybe she reads alot too.
Like I said, she is no help to me as every story I have (except for the childrens story) has violence in it.

I do question how someone can read cross all genre and be helpful.( other then grammar and sentence structure.) Teen romance is alot different then Sci-fi fantasy.

Emotional conflicts take alot more to write then I can manage(at least very often) but that would seem to fall into my OP being romance or other chick flick style books. 
But I can even see physical violence in emotional problems too.


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## sashamerideth (Sep 30, 2011)

Thought so.

I think she is locally published but newspaper articles on a small island. Better than me but totally different markets.  I have a strong suspicion that she actually writes pulp romance novels.  No matter the case I wouldn't trust her abilities for content or grammar checking. 

PM me and I will look over whatever.  Same deal but no false promises of competence. I would ask for reciprocity too.


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## The Blue Lotus (Sep 30, 2011)

Maia is a good person! I use her too. she refuses to edit violence for her own reasons. 
Is it possiable to write with out it yes. is it practical not really. When I send something to her I edit out any thing that makes her cringe. and just insert ( edited for content) so she knows that something went there that she won't read.


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## sashamerideth (Sep 30, 2011)

I don't know how she was with others but she was abusive to me because my stories included relationships that I am familiar with, polyamory and LGBTQ issues.

 I have no more to say about her.


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## The Blue Lotus (Sep 30, 2011)

sashamerideth said:


> I don't know how she was with others but she was abusive to me because my stories included relationships that I am familiar with, polyamory and LGBTQ issues.
> 
> I have no more to say about her.



I'm sorry you felt that way dear, I have noticed she can be a bit/lot blunt. But it works for me because I am that way too. 

To each their own I guess what works for someone might not be the best for you. 

I have a list of editors who are more than willing to help if you want it.  just send me a pm


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## Xanados (Sep 30, 2011)

Humans were born in, and with, violence. Like conflict in conversation, it is necessary.


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## Amanita (Oct 1, 2011)

I think this depends on your definition of "violence."
Can a fantasy story be written without graphic descriptions of battles, torture and rape? Yes, definitely.
Is it possible to write an interesting story without any kind of conflict which hurts or distresses one or more of the people involved? I don't think so. 
For me, fantasy doesn't necessarily have to include war or actions we'd define as criminal to be interesting and I think it might actually be an interesting challenge to write something without anything like that, that's still interesting. At least to some readers, it probably wouldn't be able to capture everyone. 
If someone doesn't want to read something containing violence, they have the right to say so, in my opinion. The same goes for unusual sexual relationships or any kind of graphic sex scene. This kind of thing is offensive and/or bothering to some people and I don't think this is a reason to be offended in turn. As long as the person in question voices his or her dislike in a polite manner at least which I don't know about in the case discussed.

In general, I'm not really happy with the belief, that the amount of blood and gore defines a book as "adult" and "mature". Something I like even less are "sanitzied" depictions of violence though, where killing the evil opponent seems fun and easy, while the nastier "side affects" are being clossed over.


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## Leuco (Oct 1, 2011)

SeverinR said:


> Can a story in fantasy, geared for adults be written without violence?
> 
> Wouldn't that be a romance novel? Or other variations of chick flick movies?
> 
> ...



I think fantasy is anything that involves the fantastic or unworldly-- you know, like magic or fairies. So, from this perspective, it is very easy to write something within a fantasy setting without violence. But to me, the question then is: how much fun is that?

Anyway, if you need some feedback, just post something in the showcase-- preferably no more than a chapter at a time-- and I'll read it. I like violence. I think a lot of others do too.  But if you need a proofreader/editor, you'll have to find a nicer fellow to help you out. Don't let this "mama" person get to you. Just move on to someone else.

Good luck!


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## Dreamer (Oct 1, 2011)

I would think it would be a very difficult challenge to find a fantasy based story without any violence.  I have never read any that I can think of that had absolutely no violence to it.  Even some of my son's children books have a form of violence, even though 
there is only a small degree of it.  Without violence there would be no bad guy, hence no good guy either.


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## Benjamin Clayborne (Oct 2, 2011)

It's entirely possible to have a fantasy novel without any physical violence. Fantasy is just the furniture, as GRRM puts it; stories worth reading are about dramatic, human conflict. If you can write an NPV (No Physical Violence) novel worth reading that takes place in the present day (and they exist), you can write one that's fantasy as well.

But violence is a common part of the real world, and I don't really understand the motivation to want to avoid it completely, except maybe as an interesting constraint. But there's a reason almost all great stories involve physical violence: it's because art is a reflection of the real world, and the real world contains a lot of violence. (Less than it used to, statistically speaking, but still.)


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## Mistresselysia (Oct 2, 2011)

I agree pretty much with Benjamin - genres are just things to hang ideas on, and at the heart of any good story is the human condition and the conflicts that come with it. So I would say that, yes, you can write fantasy without physical violence (not that I would be interested in it much, I must admit - I likes me a good fight scene, and they are jolly good fun to write!) just as you can write horror without blood, but at the same time, life - be it real or fantasy - isn't all unicorns and fairies, and shouldn't be treated as thus. 

Whether we like it or not, humans are violent beings, and even if we're writing about elves and trolls and dragons, humans are reading it - and I know that, for me at least, a fantasy world without some violence would ring false, to the point where I couldn't imagine a good fantasy story without at least a measure of physical peril... or maybe I just like doing nasty things to my characters just a little bit *too* much.


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## grahamguitarman (Oct 2, 2011)

I try to limit the violence in my writing - I'm a pacifist at heart due to having grown up with a violent and abusive father.

However I doubt you could write any kind of story without conflict of some kind - even romance!  

My attitude is that if like me you dislike violence, then write violence into your story and write about the consequences of that violence.  Much better to write about why its wrong to kill people, than to hide away in a dream world where you pretend it simply doesn't exist.

I've been published by the way - not as a fantasy author, but writing articles for a major art magazine - it doesn't make me an 'expert' on writing or publishing!


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## Deleth (Oct 2, 2011)

Never heard of this woman, however my main project and the others that are in line behind it have violence in them. For Pete's sake my main project is about the events that lead to open war, and the overthrowing of an evil empire masquerading as good. 

Guess what's in war? VIOLENCE!

That aside I see how it can be done, but seeing as how those kind of books do not appeal to me that is not a style I am likely to adopt (being a firm believer that to be a good writer you have to be interested in what you are writing).

Just my opinions.


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## Seth son of Tom (Oct 3, 2011)

i think it can be done theoretically, though not without much difficulty. one thing to remember is that it's not just violence, but also the fear of eminent violence that's exciting.


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## grahamguitarman (Oct 3, 2011)

Seth son of Tom said:


> i think it can be done theoretically, though not without much difficulty. one thing to remember is that it's not just violence, but also the fear of eminent violence that's exciting.



Agreed - if there is no reason to fear for the main character's safety, then there is no tension in the story!


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## Emeria (Oct 3, 2011)

Stories that I write generally have mild violence, though I keep it to a minimum.  Wrote a fantasy children's story (for a class assignment) once with conflict, but very little violence.  The bit of "violence" that there was involved a spark of fire melting an ice crystal.  In the piece I am working on now, the narrator is rather sensitive, so he tends to shy away from watching (and thus, describing) anything violent happening.


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## Lord Darkstorm (Oct 4, 2011)

Conflict does not have to contain violence.  I've read interesting stories where the actuall violence was low, but that was because it had already happened, and the story dealt with the aftermath of it.  Still even those ended up having to explain the past violence.

Is it possible, yes, but it would be very limiting.


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## Vandroiy (Oct 6, 2011)

I am certain it is possible, and can be a lot of fun to read. "Fantasy" bears its name for a reason; one can make a world that is different. In fact, I think authors should start thinking outside of the blood-and-gore box. I've seen entire seasons of anime with no serious violence, serious meaning that there is actual aggression behind it.

An extreme attempt would be some episodes of Shinigami's Ballad: it's the story of a very good-hearted (and cute) god of death helping people after tragedies or accidents. It's been a while since I watched it, so don't kill me if there is a scene of violence in one of the stories, but I can't remember any.

"No violence" does not mean "no conflict". A story's interesting part is not people cutting one another's head off anyways.

I personally love comedy in fantasy. It's the perfect setting to enjoy the absurd.


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## Johnny Cosmo (Oct 6, 2011)

As people are starting to make clear: conflict is necessary, but it's not necessarily violent. Violence is just one of the easiest ways to add conflict because it's so extreme, and the threat of violence is a powerful motivator.


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## Xavorn (Oct 6, 2011)

Hello,

Surely it is possible, but like said, it limits the possibilities. But having gotten used to violence (slight or massive), it adds up the interest for me at least. In other words, if I had two books here, one with violence and one without, on the first thought I would take the one with violence (assuming they're somewhat equally interesting).

Of course the other details affect the choosing as well, and it's good to have options, but in the long run... Alright, better stop right here, I guess. 

-Xavorn


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## DameiThiessen (Oct 9, 2011)

I read a book once that broke it down like this.

*Action:* Conflict between characters where their motivations clash and they have to fight against one another to achieve their goals.
*Violence:* Conflict between characters where one side's only motivation is to hurt the other.
*Gore:* Violence without motivation.

So following this system yes, not only is it possible to write a story without violence, it is possible to write a very good story.


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## Ghost (Oct 9, 2011)

I'll assume violence means straight up physical aggression, not conflict in general or natural disasters. I really don't see why you couldn't have a fantasy novel without violence. So many books are set in the same types of circumstances: wars against "evil" and long journeys. There might not be a reason to have violence if your main character is a bureaucrat in a state that is stable. Same goes for a farmer, a scholar, an artist, a servant, or any other occupation less glorified than a soldier or a noble. Even if the setting is an analog for medieval times, that doesn't mean it has to be nonstop violence. Once it's about the fate of a kingdom, the plot often turns into WWIII + dragons. Fantasy writers often want to write epics, and war is epic. It isn't the only kind of story that exists, though.

I don't know if I have any fantasy books that totally lack violence. Violence, or the threat of it, is an easy way to up the ante. Besides, if your goal is to write a thrilling novel, writing about a rebel army fighting an evil sorcerer makes more sense than writing about a wizard who might lose his magic license. For me, it's also a little less interesting, but that's because I've seen way more of the former.

Taking violence out of a fantasy novel doesn't mean it's only fit for women and children. Fairy tales also have violence, and so do the mid-grade fantasy novels I've read. More than half of the romance novels I've read have some form of violence in them, from shootouts in the jungle to attempted rapes. The romance stories I've read without _any_ violence were short fiction. (Most of the romance I read was historical, fwiw.)

If that poster the OP refers to hates reading about violence, she might get turned off when reading a story that has it. She wouldn't be able to provide a good critique if it ruined her view of the characters and the plot. Her refusal to read them is better for both sides because she isn't the target audience for those books anyway.


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## pskelding (Oct 10, 2011)

> A poster offers help to new writers without cost.



Hmmm who is this mysterious person? She sounds like she could be anyone of us. 



> She refuses to help with any art form with violence. Not heroic violence, not good over bad violence,
> just no violence. I believe she is not a fantasy writer.



OK you shouldn't consider her worthy of reading your writing nor should you change what you are writing for her unless she is an editor who will pay you for it. 

I wouldn't consider her worth my time in the least with an offer like that and you shouldn't unless she was a proven editor with a track record and credentials to back it up. 

You also should be wary of mysterious people offering assistance like this on the internet...


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## CicadaGrrl (Oct 11, 2011)

I've actually tried writing a fantasy novel with no violence.  Magic, but no violence.  My writing group kept telling me it had no plot or direction.  Eventually I got sick of this type of feedback and set it aside.  Beauty by Robin McKinley.  The Beast threatens violence, but never is actually violence and only threatens violence once and not on the page.  A Fine and Private Place.  A past tense violent act is referred since one of the characters has to deal with the ramifications, but other than that--nothing.  

A fantasy novel does not in any way need to contain violence.  It asks for a created world or this world with intrusive unworldly aspects.  Most often magic, etc.  The only reason nearly every fantasy novel involves violence is that the market, and then the readers, and then the writers who were readers and so tend to write with an expectation it will look something like what they read all involve violence.


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## Johnny Cosmo (Oct 12, 2011)

> I wouldn't consider her worth my time in the least with an offer like that and you shouldn't unless she was a proven editor with a track record and credentials to back it up.



I've been holding back, but I agree with this. I don't think it's fair to say 'her offer, her rules', because this is fiction we're discussing. Her offer reeks of pomposity, and some weird kind of petty morality. Even if she is a good writer (I don't really know), it doesn't make her qualified to judge other people's work if she hangs on to such pointless 'purity', as if it equates to integrity. 

I wouldn't trust anyone who'd sooner put their hands over their ears and shout 'lalala', than face something as real, and as inherent in humans, as violence in a work of _imaginary_​ prose.


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## SeverinR (Oct 14, 2011)

Johnny Cosmo said:


> I've been holding back, but I agree with this. I don't think it's fair to say 'her offer, her rules', because this is fiction we're discussing. Her offer reeks of pomposity, and some weird kind of petty morality. Even if she is a good writer (I don't really know), it doesn't make her qualified to judge other people's work if she hangs on to such pointless 'purity', as if it equates to integrity.
> 
> I wouldn't trust anyone who'd sooner put their hands over their ears and shout 'lalala', than face something as real, and as inherent in humans, as violence in a work of _imaginary_​ prose.



Like anyone else, her critique would be her opinion, it is very hard to be a Jack of all Genres, so the critique would be word structure and welll formed sentences and descriptions.

I think her reasoning is because she is burned out on writing violence and just wants to help others peacefully and with no profit.

I am uncertain that I will send her something, basically because my stories have violence of some sort intertwined.
Basically I could not remember reading any fantasy book without some violence, so I asked if it was possible to write a adult fantasy without violence. (The only thing I have written without violence was "Aqua at play" and every critique suggested it be a childrens book. I love that a google search brings up my story)


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## Johnny Cosmo (Oct 14, 2011)

> Like anyone else, her critique would be her opinion, it is very hard to be a Jack of all Genres, so the critique would be word structure and welll formed sentences and descriptions.
> 
> I think her reasoning is because she is burned out on writing violence and just wants to help others peacefully and with no profit.



My problem is that setting such petty terms implies a bizarre sense of self-worth, and works to exaggerate her expertise. She should just give critique if she wants to, and not give critique if she doesn't want to. Simple. I don't agree with racial segregation or sexism, but I'm not about to refuse to read something that includes it.

If you just want her to critique your grammar and structure, then go for it. As for your story? I wouldn't bother, because if she's willing to let something so childish get in the way of her critique, then you need to take into account other factors that could affect her ability to give reasonable feedback.


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## Queengilda (Oct 14, 2011)

I have written romance novels and they usually don't have violence, just other types of conflict.  Fantasy novels do have to have some type of violence if they are for the adult market.  Otherwise the books just wouldn't sell.  Perhaps the lady only writes children's fantasy stories.


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## Ravana (Oct 15, 2011)

Oh, it's possible, I'm sure… but I usually end up hitting something or other eventually.


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