# Working from the End



## JCFarnham (May 6, 2011)

The other day I was listening to the Writing Excuses podcast archives and they came up with a good point regarding working backwards from your ending.

For some reason I've never thought of writing this way, but I must say they made some good points. The theory goes if you're writing something like mystery [or anything for that matter which has a bit of that element in it] if you figure out your climactic moment first- the Whodonit, etc. then you are more likely to write a consistant story that doesn't lose sight of its revealing moment. You can then pick and choose from clues and when you want to throw them at your characters. and so on a so forth. To me it seems like this working backwards technique would help to keep you insight of the goal, and not accidentally write in a plothole, or completely derail your story for that matter.

This isn't to say that you can't "work backwards" AND discovery write [seems a lot, if not all of us here do this] after all the middle isn't set, just a scene you now have the ability to foreshadow. 

So, what do you people think about this?

I personally don't outline in the slightest, so this feels a tiny bit constrictive for me at first glance but then again, I tend to lose sight of the point of the story and could probably stand to work in a bit of foreshadowing somewhere along the line. I'm thinking I'll give Working backwards a go at some point, if a plot calls for some mystery and such. 

Does anyone do this already? Find it interesting? Or do you have some other trick to helping yourself foreshadow and build clear plot goals? Do you do something I can't wrap my head around and just remember what you've written earlier and work it in where necessary? [I'd have to keep lists or something haha] 

Is there any real point in working in complete chronological order? Because I personally can see a lot of pros for using either the technique being discussed or simply writing bits and pieces of scenes from all over the place when they come to you say, feverishly in a dream at 2 in the morning, or whatever. I guess what it comes down to is how organised a mood you have to be in write...

So yeah. Lot of questions there, but hopefully not too much you have to wade through the mire so to speak to pick out something you want to talk about.


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## Ophiucha (May 6, 2011)

Writing Excuses and I are at a fundamental disagreement on so, so many issues, so I must admit that starting this out with "Writing Excuses... came up with a good point" doesn't put in an accepting mood. I know a lot of people who plan an ending and then go back to write from the beginning, around forums like Absolute Write, and I guess it works for them. I don't consider myself a discovery writer, though I don't stick to an outline rigidly during the first draft, but you can't really write a good mystery without knowing the ending, I would think. Indeed, most narratives are going to suffer if the author doesn't know the ending. Whether you need that for the first draft, particularly if you are a discovery writer, I don't know. I certainly don't think so. You're going to scrap 90% of it, anyway.

I think anything you do in your first draft is up to you, really. You can write the whole story in cipher for all that it matters to the result. But I'd doubt the quality of a book if the author wrote the published piece without knowing where it was going.


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## Neunzehn (May 6, 2011)

Hmmm... Well I leave notes for myself regarding character themes, events and sentences or names that I want to use later. If I wrote the ending of my story first I would have a lot more to anchor these things to, so yea, in that respect it would be rather useful. I could even see myself writing a number of events before I wrote their predecessors, but writing the entire book backwards I'll pass on XD. I think that it's something that I could use very well to write stories that flow and connect together more easily regardless to how many twists I put in them.


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## JCFarnham (May 6, 2011)

Neunzehn said:


> Hmmm... Well I leave notes for myself regarding character themes, events and sentences or names that I want to use later. If I wrote the ending of my story first I would have a lot more to anchor these things to, so yea, in that respect it would be rather useful. I could even see myself writing a number of events before I wrote their predecessors, but writing the entire book backwards I'll pass on XD.



Must say, the idea of writing completely in reverse does tickle me  but yeah not quite what I meant.

You've touched upon what I think about this. I can see people disregarding this thinking that it means they have to some how stick rigidly to a single plot, but yeah in the end its just one scene this is in reference to the whodoneit as it were [if you even have one]. Throw in as many twists as you like along the way. In fact, I'd play a game with myself; write the end then see how many complications and twists you can throw in and still make it to the end "alive"!

I do think you _could_ write a mystery, or thriller for that matter, in complete discovery mode but frankly those kind of genres need a bit more craft than that right? The way I see it, for a story with a strong mystery element [i'm beginning to hate that phrase now haha] to it to work well, whether genre fiction or whatever the hell you want to write, you need to have a strong idea of your end point before you get there. Whether you write it out before hand or keep it in mind for when you get there, I think its kind of vital to "work backwards" in the sense I'm using the phrase. I'm not sure it's that possible to make a big reveal work [or work well rather] if you discovery write towards it. 



Neunzehn said:


> I think that it's something that I could use very well to write stories that flow and connect together more easily regardless to how many twists I put in them.



Just the way I see it.


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## Cinnea (May 6, 2011)

I haven't thought of it that way, but generally I at least _plan _my stories backwards. At least I almost always knows the ending before I know the beginning - and because I know (at least the general) ending, I can make up what has to happen along the way to arrive there. Yes, I do outline. Sometimes more, sometimes less. I tried to approach NaNo last year without more than a general idea of characters, where they were at beginning and where I'd like them to end up - but found myself pretty soon writing an outline instead of scenes  Obviously I need it... 

That said, even if it seems like I plan (and outline) backwards I then start from some kind of beginning and try to work my way forward. Usually ends up writing scenes all over the place, but that's another story ...


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## Kate (May 7, 2011)

John Irving writes all of his novels from the last scene, as in he gets the ending straight first and then goes back and writes the rest.  
It's something that I've been contemplating in my WIP these last few days.  I know what the final showdown scene is going to be, more or less, but I'm really having trouble getting to that point without feeling like I'm rushing everything along with only that development in mind.  I need to have an idea of the end in most of what I write. Oddly enough, beginnings are easier to write. 

First drafts, I think, you've got a lot of room to experiment with planning vs. organic discovery, but i do believe that having at least a vauge idea of where your is going does help. And in some ways, organic discovery of that first draft is like planning, in lots and lots of detail.


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## Amanita (May 7, 2011)

This definitly sounds interesting. 
I've always believed that for some reason I should start at the beginning and go on from there.
But maybe, writing the end or other later scenes could really be helpful. It might make it easier to fill in the stuff in between and keep me from wanderin off track. 
I'm really going to consider trying this.


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## At Dusk I Reign (May 7, 2011)

I don't outline, just make notes in my head, but I usually start with the conclusion and then work out how I'm going to get there. But then, as I mentioned in Black Dragon's article on the subject, I do feel the end is the most important part of a book/film/TV series. I can live with a story that starts off badly, but not with one which ends badly.


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## Waltershores (May 10, 2011)

I leave notes in every chapter of what I want to discuss within and it tends to help me quite a bit.  I don't necessarily start at the end, but I have found that maybe I should lol.  It's easier to write preceding chapters with an ending in mind.


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## Ravana (May 10, 2011)

Do it all the time. I start with what I've got, even if that happens to be the end. If anything, it works better for me: if I know where something is supposed to end up, it's easier for me to figure out what has to happen in order to get there. 

Of course, that doesn't mean I always end up where I thought I was going… I occasionally end up with a good story that can't possibly end the way I thought it was going to–at which point I chop the old ending off, put on an appropriate one, and begin the process over again, writing a new story for the original ending. Repeat as necessary.


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## Derin (May 17, 2011)

I almost always start with an ending, and then write a story for it. I have, on occasion, started with a good beginning and tried to spin it into a story, but it doesn't work for me -- if I don't know where I'm going, I don't have the stamina to pull through the difficult chapters and force my way around writers' block. The ending can be replaced in the second draft if I find a better one. I do not, however, work backwards -- I have an ending, and a basic concept for a plot, and then I go back to the beginning and start drafting. Because I don't map plots in much detail beforehand, I don't skip difficult chapters and come back to them; I write them in order and revise them later. Only the ending is prewritten, and perhaps the climax. I don't see writing the whole thing backwards as a good technique for me because it seems difficult to follow the thread and watch tension build that way, but there are a lot of things I can't do that other writers can.


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## gavintonks (May 17, 2011)

I started writing and just wrote and wrote and wrote until things pulled themselves together. But I have also created the framework subsequently and have checked the elements, so a structured story is an imperative. I think the energy expended in producing a framework first is far easier than plunging headlong.


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## Derin (May 17, 2011)

gavintonks said:


> I started writing and just wrote and wrote and wrote until things pulled themselves together. But I have also created the framework subsequently and have checked the elements, so a structured story is an imperative. I think the energy expended in producing a framework first is far easier than plunging headlong.


 
I can't seem to work to a framework, at least not a written one. I can plan it fine, but then I lose any interest in writing the thing. If I have a lot of things happening at once I'll plot a timeline to make sure things are consistent, but I usually make my first draft the framework.


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## Chase Simba (May 18, 2011)

That's a good idea if your climactic moment is what you have in mind, and you know your story back to front.  However, my method is just to start out with an idea, begin writing immediately, and just flow from there.  The backwards progression is good if you want it all to lead up to a big finish, and you don't want anything contradicting it, because the ending is determined before the rest of the book.  If you don't have an ending in mind, though, just writing what feels right is better.


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## Sammy (May 19, 2011)

*Understanding Screenplay and Screenwriting Structure*

If you look at the videos at http://www.clickok.co.uk/index4.html which extols the virtues of the loop - the argument is that the end and beginning are the same, which makes sense from the point of view of writing backwards - you simultaneously have the end and beginning. I think it's a great approach.


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