# The world known as Noches.



## Froboy69 (Oct 8, 2016)

So coming up with the world of Noches from my story Rey de Noches, I wanted to go the extra mile and try to make it as epic fantasy as possible.

I got the idea when I was watching the Avatar series and the Lord of the Rings series. Obviously, Avatar and LOTR gain inspiration from Asian and European cultures respectively. After giving it some thought, it hit me: why is there nothing that is focused on the latin american cultures?

*Time*

Obviously the world that exists without a sun is often questioned: how does time work where no sun exists? Well there are two version of night known as 'Night' and 'True Night'.

A passage from the Prologue of the story itself:



> Ruiz thought about the correct order that was needed for him to properly explain. “There are sixty seconds in a minute, sixty minutes in an hour, thirteen hours for Night and thirteen hours for True Night. Thus making a total of twenty-six hours in a ‘whole night’. Every hour, natural water in the world changes color in a certain order. Thus, we tend to keep water in glass containers reflecting ‘real time’. We’re able to tell minutes by sensing the cycle in water with basic magic. How we view it varies from living being to living being.
> “For an entire moon cycle, The Moon carries a colored ‘shadow hue’, which lasts for twenty-five Nights, and will convert into a different color afterwards. There is a total of fourteen cycles that make up a ‘blue cycle’. Thus, a complete blue moon is considered as the mark for an entire year. The Moon becomes completely blue in this process instead of just its hue, and this will not occur again until fourteen cycles later.” Ruiz sighed heavily after finishing the long explanation.




*Countries*

Noches, spanish for 'Night', is a world that is comprised of six nations inspired by real world historical nations and empires:

Hispania - Obviously the Roman name for the Iberian Peninsula which was a respective province of theirs. Unlike in the real world where Spain/Portugal did not get to keep these territories, Hispania managed to keep a huge chunk of land that is next to Esmeraldsia. Their origins from their old world (basically whatever version of 'Europe') is vague many and for good reason...

Gran Esmeraldsia - The name inspired by Emerald, it a nod to the riches and valued 'treasures' that the territory holds. Inspired by the historical union known as Gran Colombia, it has an influence of modern Colombia, Venezuela, Educador, and Panama; the nations which were known to make up the confederation. Costa Rican culture is shown which bridges Esmeraldsia to the Anahuac Union.

Anahuac Union - Anahuac Union is inspired from the 'Valley of Mexico' and 'Anahuac' is the ancient (Aztec) name of the Valley of Mexico itself. I felt that this was a good name considering that the 'land' itself is surrounded by mountains and volcanoes, and was a centre for several pre-Columbian civilizations, including Teotihuacan, the Toltec, and the Aztec. The ancient Aztec term Anahuac (Land Between the Waters) and the phrase Basin of Mexico are both used at times to refer to the Valley of Mexico today. The Basin of Mexico became a well known site that epitomized the scene of early Classic Mesoamerican cultural development as well. Hence another reason to choose this name. It has a influence of Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua, and Costa Rica which the latter as I mentioned before, has an ethic culture that bridges the Union with Esmeraldsia.

Inca Union - If you're savvy with pre-Columbian history, this is from a great empire known as the Incan Empire (and the Inka Empire), known as the largest empire in pre-Columbian America, and argued as the largest empire in the world in the early 16th century. Historically, it had reached as far as Argentina, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, and Peru, although Peru, Bolivia, Chile and Ecuador have the closest post-Spanish intervention heritage ties to this nation. As you would expect, this connects to Esmeraldsia and the country listed below.

Republic of Argentum - Argentum from the latin word 'silver', this nation has a strong tie to Hispania; like the modern Argentina and Uruguay who have a very close cultural history together. In fact, it's commonly joked that they get confused quite often for the other. With a strong European heritage, they are often confused for Hispanians despite having an Indigenous population as well.

Republic of Caribilia - Basically consisting of today's latin american countries in the Caribbean, it has a vague history; there are many mysteries due to the legend that the collection of islands was *relocated* via magic. A feat that is naturally argued and questioned even to this day- NIGHT. So you can expect certain cultural references from latin american countries in the Caribbean like Cuba, Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic, Hati, etc. I am purposely being vague about this region for the sake of story telling~



Now there are certain cultures/countries like Brazil and Paraguay not referenced but there's a reason for that as they ARE within the world of Noches but in a different way. You'll have to read to learn more~



*Races*

All living things use magic. This is natural because magic is what this world uses commonly as a natural resource; be for powering up technology, or using it within their bodies where they have both a circulatory system for blood and a similar system but for magic. Thus, where a normal human heart would be on the left chest, they also carry a magical heart on the right chest. And of course, this applies to other races or creatures with their own system. The main usage of magic in their bodies is for controlling body temperature; no sun = freezing your ass off...

Humans - Do I really need to explain? Aside from the magic system that we all carry, it's not uncommon for eye color and hair color to be influence by magic; one could have dark green hair and orange eyes just because...

Scales - Once known to be giant underground reptiles, this intelligent species were well-respect in ancient times to that of dragons in mythology; although wingless. That being said, at one point in their history, Scales realized that their large bodies made it difficult to maintain magic which forced them to stay as deep underground as possible where raw sources of magic existed. Thus, they eventually learned to adapt their body structure to that of a human and are quite social. A running gag is while they are naturally cold blooded, they enjoy alcoholic drinks to 'warm' themselves despite that being a common real-world myth. Yet it works for them somehow... That being said, they're generally common like humans.

Lunarians - One who comes from the moon itself, Lunarians look exactly human, save for their white hair and white colored eyes. While rare, they are seemingly kind and social despite their influence on making others uncomfortable. Due to the fact that every non-Lunarian holds extreme sensitivity to their own magic. They are often seen as the children of Luna herself.

Brazuka - Unique, their hair is fire itself but does not burn. Sharp teeth and non-human skin color, they are barely different from humans and are found *everywhere* across Noches.

Imperdonables - I don't want to spoil much but basically these are the race that does NOT benefit from magic as a neccessary; when they breathe, they release something that unbalances magic itself to the point where it can destroy it. However, they are considerate enough that they invented masks that naturally filters out this toxic to magic. Often discriminated, they hold a strong belief that all living things have become too reliant on magic itself. Ironically, they are commonly the strongest users of magic itself.

*Importance of Magic*

Magic itself is an important aspect in this world. Because of way how life is, Magic has always been there like oxygen. It influenced many possibilities with science and religion. Its raw properties is *hot* and dangerous; think of lava in a way. Because it comes in different forms, magic can either help or harm you depending on how it's presented before you. Hell it's a natural light source where plant life 'glows'. Hell using magic as various possibilities, giving it many forms via various mediums. 

Magic is used via the language which is commonly Spanish. Although the main character begins to learn that the parent language Latin has other languages (French, Portuguese, Italian, Romanian, etc.) that is used in Noches. But for the sake of keeping things simple, Spanish in this world is reference as 'magic' and the main language used for magic.

I thought at first this would be 'cheap' to always use magic as the explanation, but it's more than that; it brings an argument of how much life can be different if you add something that is a game changer. In fact, the main character does begin to question if magic is really a benefit or even a weakness. 





This series of the 'Legacy Cycle' has many things already written/planned. And I hope that you'll get into this~


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## SaltyDog (Oct 8, 2016)

I have to say that is a great idea!  Go for it!


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## Froboy69 (Oct 8, 2016)

SaltyDog said:


> I have to say that is a great idea!  Go for it!



Thank you man. I am actually trying to see if me posting this will get people to look it up.


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## Vaporo (Oct 9, 2016)

If there's no sun, then how does anyone grow food? And how does the moon glow without the sun shining on it?

You say that everything uses magic to control its body temperature. To what degree does this occur? You mentioned keeping warm only in passing, so it sounds like you're saying that everyone stays warm all the time no matter what. If that's true, then I think that you're negating the point of a world with no sun. You've set up this (presumably) arctic world, then you've gone and pulled the thing that seems like it should completely define your world (the struggle to keep warm) out from under it.

Plus, I think that everyone walking around in the snow wearing swimsuits would challenge my suspension of disbelief a bit. That's just me, though.

A lot of the cultures you say you've based your world on are tropical sun-worshippers. How are you going to transplant them into an arctic world with no sun? If you modify them to the point where they make sense in this kind of world, I think that they will identify closer with the Inuits than anyone from Central or South America. One of your cultures is island-based. If your world is arctic enough that everyone needs magic to stay warm, then wouldn't the oceans will be frozen over?


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## Queshire (Oct 9, 2016)

It doesn't seem to be an artic world. It seems to be a night world instead.


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## Ireth (Oct 9, 2016)

Queshire said:


> It doesn't seem to be an artic world. It seems to be a night world instead.



But without a sun to provide heat and light for sustaining life, it _would_ be an arctic world, unless there is some alternate means of heating it enough so plants and animals can survive.


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## Vaporo (Oct 9, 2016)

Queshire said:


> It doesn't seem to be an artic world. It seems to be a night world instead.



He says that the main use of magic is regulating body temperature against the cold, though: 



Froboy69 said:


> The main usage of magic in their bodies is for controlling body temperature; no sun = freezing your ass off...



And you're right, it does seem to be set up only as a night world. At the same time, though, he says that it's cold enough that people need magical body temperature control. That should have a big effect somewhere, but he doesn't make any mention of it longer than a single sentence of world building.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Oct 9, 2016)

This sounds really interesting. I love the foundational ideas. 

The main question is, how do they grow food without the sun? Seems like magic would have to be involved. Your food chain would be based ultimately on magic rather than light.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Oct 9, 2016)

Vaporo said:


> If there's no sun, then how does anyone grow food? And how does the moon glow without the sun shining on it?
> 
> You say that everything uses magic to control its body temperature. To what degree does this occur? You mentioned keeping warm only in passing, so it sounds like you're saying that everyone stays warm all the time no matter what. If that's true, then I think that you're negating the point of a world with no sun. You've set up this (presumably) arctic world, then you've gone and pulled the thing that seems like it should completely define your world (the struggle to keep warm) out from under it.
> 
> ...



The struggle to keep warm would be only one of the struggles in such a world. 

One would be the need for food. How do you grow food without light? Also, you could center something around the need for light. It seems like magic would be needed for all of these things. 

But, it's fantasy, so there are few limits. The sun-worshipping cultures can be moon-worshipping instead. or light-worshipping. 

The moon glowing without a sun is a real problem.


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## Froboy69 (Oct 10, 2016)

Vaporo said:


> If there's no sun, then how does anyone grow food? And how does the moon glow without the sun shining on it?
> 
> You say that everything uses magic to control its body temperature. To what degree does this occur? You mentioned keeping warm only in passing, so it sounds like you're saying that everyone stays warm all the time no matter what. If that's true, then I think that you're negating the point of a world with no sun. You've set up this (presumably) arctic world, then you've gone and pulled the thing that seems like it should completely define your world (the struggle to keep warm) out from under it.
> 
> ...





Magic exists in water and comes in many forms such as that to lava; the magic creates natural heat that varies in many sizes across the world. Hell because environments are naturally affected by magic, this can a place either really hot or warm. But like anyone in the real world, you wear clothing based on how comfortable you are and/or- within this world- how much trouble you want to go through with controlling your body temperature. Hence I felt that making magic 'too broken' wasn't right and that there was a reason why they all wear different clothing.

Because of magic in raw form, it keeps the world warm enough to where it's not frozen. Hell if there was a sun, this world WOULD burn up...


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## Froboy69 (Oct 10, 2016)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> The struggle to keep warm would be only one of the struggles in such a world.
> 
> One would be the need for food. How do you grow food without light? Also, you could center something around the need for light. It seems like magic would be needed for all of these things.
> 
> ...





Well like I said, magic plays a factor. Because ALL living things have adapted magic, this has naturally existed with plant life; magic in a certain form provides nutrition- (hell certain forms are popular with cuisines)- and has benefits. Enough exposure to magic can be similar to sun radiation where one can have healthy vitamin D. Same with how it creates light; even if magic did not produce heat in this world, chemical reactions can produce 'light' even without heat. Example is how fireflies can make light on their bodies without heat.

Since this world has...well I'll say it although I don't want 'sci-fi' to be the main focus but, evolved and adapted to magic because it's always been there for usage. All living things rely on magic as much as oxygen. But at least when it comes to growing and keeping temperatures to certain degrees.


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## jm.milks (Oct 10, 2016)

I personally don't like the usage of magic as an end all solution to the fact that complex life wouldn't of formed on its own under these conditions.

Maybe there was one a sun, maybe the world is heated by geothermal energy, ect. Maybe the races developed from work from a higher class species. 

I know, fantasy, but a huge part of fantasy for me is 'what if this could, or has happened?' and with what I read, the whole 'everything is dark and there's no way complex life would ever inhabit this world, but it's OK cuz magic' thing really ruins it for me. 

I'm sorry, but this setting as is, just isn't my cup of tea. It doesn't sound like there's a whole lot of thought put into it and that you're just playing around with different ideas for the sake of being different, and not for the sake of creating a beautiful work of art.


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## Queshire (Oct 10, 2016)

Seriously guys? I honestly doubt any of you would have reacted this way if he just went "it's a night world 'cuz fa~~~ntasy~"  Saying it is because of magic seems like just a token excuse to satisfy people that bring up just the sort of objections that you' ve brought up.

It has a strong core image; a "night world"  and "inspired by spanish culture." That's enough for me. It's a bad trend in writing to think that everything in fantasy needs some sort of pseudo-scientific explanation.


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## Froboy69 (Oct 10, 2016)

Very close-minded of you with the exception that you're allowing your imagination to actually take hold and with your statement:



jm.milks said:


> Maybe there was one a sun, maybe the world is heated by geothermal energy, ect. Maybe the races developed from work from a higher class species.



^ I like this because you're making theories and actually opening your mind.




jm.milks said:


> I personally don't like the usage of magic as an end all solution to the fact that *complex life wouldn't of formed on its own under these conditions.*



And why "wouldn't" it? As I've said beforehand, magic is available in certain forms which benefits all living things with particular nutrition/radiation to that of the sun. Why do you think all living things with a circulatory system in this world also have a similar system but for magic? Because they've evolved with it and have relied on it. No matter did I say that magic solved every issue, otherwise there wouldn't be a *purpose* to the story itself wouldn't there?

Like with any fantasy world, there are always rules and conditions with magic, same in Noches. Only magic is mainstream in this world because people HAVE to use it.




jm.milks said:


> I know, fantasy, but a huge part of fantasy for me is 'what if this could, or has happened?' and with what I read, the whole 'everything is dark and there's no way complex life would ever inhabit this world, but it's OK cuz magic' thing really ruins it for me.



Everything is "dark"? What part of "Hell it's a natural light source where plant life 'glows'." did you not understand? Also, "using magic as various possibilities, *giving it many forms via various mediums*."does not strike you at all? Do I have to help you consider and be direct about how this *natural resource* can be used? Trains? Lamps? Street Lights?

"No way life could ever inhabit this world", why? There's heat thanks to magic in raw form, plant life feeds on magic in other forms because of the nutrition value that I've said beforehand, which can also benefit organic life.




jm.milks said:


> I'm sorry, but this setting as is, just isn't my cup of tea. It doesn't sound like there's a whole lot of thought put into it and that you're just playing around with different ideas for the sake of being different, and not for the sake of creating a beautiful work of art.




ROFL! Seriously? You're making assumptions and not giving the benefit of the doubt? For one who enjoys fantasy, a genre that often breaks the rules of the reality that we know and presents it in a different matter, you're overthinking this despite the explanations that I've given. 

You seriously think that you're the *first* to question how this world works? I've had this going on since 2007 and of course I've had to come up with ways for this world to work up to this point in time. I've obviously have place thought and effort into this with the time that I've had because I *had to*. 

Seems to me that you don't want to give it a try nor do you want to view magic as the valuable resource that all living things have used for as long as they could remember. Hell you're *not even taking the time to read what I've written first-hand nor answered questions first asked here*. I can easily answer any concerning question that you have without issue, but don't insult me by pretending that you yourself have gotten everything you needed from me to make a final view-point over this world. I contradicted you by relying on what I wrote first-hand.


But if you want to question it and not keep an open-mind, that's your issue.


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## Froboy69 (Oct 10, 2016)

Queshire said:


> Seriously guys? I honestly doubt any of you would have reacted this way if he just went "it's a night world 'cuz fa~~~ntasy~"  Saying it is because of magic seems like just *a token excuse to satisfy people that bring up just the sort of objections that you' ve brought up.*
> 
> It has a strong core image; a "night world"  and "inspired by spanish culture." That's enough for me. It's a bad trend in writing to think that everything in fantasy needs some sort of pseudo-scientific explanation.




If they want to be close-minded, that's their thing. By all means I understand if this story isn't for everyone, but I EXPECT better reasoning than people ignoring what I wrote to help them understand this world...


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## jm.milks (Oct 10, 2016)

Froboy69 said:


> Very close-minded of you with the exception that you're allowing your imagination to actually take hold and with your statement:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I do not like this response, particularly because instead of creating something constructive from what I've said, you've spent the whole post on justifying, making assumptions, and trying to make attacks on me as a person, and not my views themselves. 

I'm going to reiterate one last time in the simplest fashion

It's the magic

It, again, sounds like you're using magic as an explanation for everything. Imagination would be along the lines of coming up with a new resource, giving it explanation, and then thinking of how this affects the people who use it, and how they do. 

What I DONT like is that i was presented a night world with cultures based on sun worshippers and the solution to there being no mass state of fusion anywhere near the world to keep it from slowly drifting down to -400 f is *poof* magic. 

The proteins that define carbon based life were synthesized in temperatures closer to 400 degrees ABOVE zero, so did life start by *poof* magic?

I'm sorry if I offended you by stating that I do not enjoy people explaining everything with *magic* and giving the reason why that is. Don't waste your time by assuming I'm close minded because that aspect of your world spoils it for me, though. If you want to make it more appealing, develop a real system, not *poof* magic.

Edit: I've given my reasoning, twice now.  Please try to understand instead of assuming I'm some lesser form of human race because i'd rather offer you the chance to see my viewpoint. I enjoy fantasy not because it's different from our world, I enjoy fantasy because I can immerse myself in something believable, and everytime you fix a problem by making it disappear, you take that from the reader.


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## Queshire (Oct 10, 2016)

Careful guys, you don't want to bring the wrath of the staff down upon you.


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## Froboy69 (Oct 10, 2016)

jm.milks said:


> I do not like this response, particularly because instead of creating something constructive from what I've said, you've spent the whole post on justifying, making assumptions, and trying to make attacks on me as a person, and not my views themselves.



Because you argued things vaguely without showing acknowledgement of my previous explanation; you gave the impression that you didn't read what I wrote and did not give specific reasoning that I would easily contradicted. However reading what you're saying makes me understand where your coming from and I do enjoy details.



jm.milks said:


> I 'm going to reiterate one last time in the simplest fashion
> 
> It's the magic
> 
> ...



That's more specific and I prefer this question. With this, it's reasonable because I gave no explanation. More on this in a little bit.




jm.milks said:


> The proteins that define carbon based life were synthesized in temperatures closer to 400 degrees ABOVE zero, so did life start by *poof* magic?



Now that you're more specific, I can understand what your concern is. I do apologize but I was given a different impression. But I am legitimately happy to hear the exact things that are bothering you.

Now obviously it's pretty common for people to question that logic given that this is suppose to be a fantasy world that goes against reality. And yet, science has to play a part because I felt the need to add a little of it. If you had to view this from a scientific point, what do you think magic would be? No mumble jumbo, but something that can be explained? What is magic if you had to break it down bit by bit, and what makes it relate to its other forms? This Lava-like substance that exists deep underground, or how it's found in the air that they breathe, or how it affects water to the point where it changes color? Why is it that magic is naturally hot and can be used by these living things? Is it natural? is it artificial? 

I am not going to lie, I actually want people to make assumptions of how this world works; I want them to continue making theories be it from a scientific matter or something else (maybe divine or whatever they feel comfortable with).

After all, this world inspired by real world cultures seems odd doesn't it? Yes, sun worshipers existed, yet this world relies on the moon for religion and believe that the stars are other moons (this last part went without saying, but I honestly felt that it was something that should be brought up during the story or outside where people ask), leading one to imagine. Within the story, religion surrounding the moon goddess herself always credits her for creation of life. This is naturally expected in religion, although a lot of mysteries also surround her and Noches itself.


I know that's completely vague but there's only so much that I actually want to give out without spoiling the future plans for this series. This is the point where I can admit that I won't give every single answer to what my plans are indefinitely for the complete explanation of what magic "really is", as my mind can change in the years to come. I could have kept this purely fantasy but I thought that it would be exciting to add a bit of sci-fi to it, just to make people wonder. Especially since we have the tendency not to question it if it doesn't go too overboard.  



jm.milks said:


> I'm sorry if I offended you by stating that I do not enjoy people explaining everything with *magic* and giving the reason why that is. Don't waste your time by assuming I'm close minded because that aspect of your world spoils it for me, though. If you want to make it more appealing, develop a real system, not *poof* magic.
> 
> Edit: I've given my reasoning, twice now.  Please try to understand instead of assuming I'm some lesser form of human race because i'd rather offer you the chance to see my viewpoint. I enjoy fantasy not because it's different from our world, I enjoy fantasy because I can immerse myself in something believable, and everytime you fix a problem by making it disappear, you take that from the reader.



Understandable. Again, I assure you that there's more to this world than what I wrote. I apologize because I thought that you were ignoring what I was saying, but I now understand what the specific issues are that bothers you.

While I don't particularly want this to be part sci-fi, it will be inevitably drag into it for 'scientific' accuracy. It's theorized that rouge planets without a sun can exist but the issue was always heat whenever you needed to support life. In fact, thick layers of water in certain rogue planets could support marine life but deep under thick layers of ice. Hell we have one form of life that can exist in space but I am not going to say that I have all the answers because we humans don't at this point in time. I won't tell you if I've decided what magic in this world is "exactly", but when the time comes and I see it as appropriate, I will decide/reveal what magic is.

Again, I rather keep this pure fantasy but not become close-minded and ignore how people will challenge it from a scientific point. I only ask is that you do not worry so much on the details that occur in the background but if you must, theorize it by all means. Just give it a chance and explore possibilities.

I respect your view on wanting to see how a fantasy world can work, and I do appreciate your more-detailed explanation.


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## Vaporo (Oct 10, 2016)

I think that I should mention Brandon Sanderson's first law of magic:

"An author’s ability to solve conflict with magic is DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL to how well the reader understands said magic."

It's all about learning how to play with peoples' suspension of disbelief. I have no problem accepting a world where it is always night, just as long as you don't make me think about it too much. However, the moment that you say "Magic is regulates the world's temperature," you open up a whole new can of worms. Where does the magic come from? Why does it regulate the temperature of the world? How does the magic work? Why does the moon glow with no sun?
Do you get my point? You need to make sure that to give your readers at least an indication that you aren't just lazily writing up solutions as you go along.


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## Queshire (Oct 10, 2016)

Alternatively just don't tell them that a wizard did it~  ^-^


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## TheKillerBs (Oct 10, 2016)

Sanderson's first law is about solving plot problems. It applies to the characters, not the world. The criticism of magic to handwave away stuff that makes this world go round seems a tad silly to me. So there's some unexplained force that keeps the temperature livable, allows for plants to photosynthesise, etc. Okay, fine, let's just call it magic and be done with it. Let's move on to the story, shall we? Now, if you start trying to pseudoscience your way out, then people who know about the topic will get jarred out of the story.


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## Vaporo (Oct 10, 2016)

TheKillerBs said:


> Sanderson's first law is about solving plot problems. It applies to the characters, not the world. The criticism of magic to handwave away stuff that makes this world go round seems a tad silly to me. So there's some unexplained force that keeps the temperature livable, allows for plants to photosynthesise, etc. Okay, fine, let's just call it magic and be done with it. Let's move on to the story, shall we? Now, if you start trying to pseudoscience your way out, then people who know about the topic will get jarred out of the story.



True, but I think that it is applicable to world building as well. If everything in the world only works "cuz magic" with no explanation or apparent consistency, then that's just as bad as writing your characters into a corner and giving them a new nonsensical power just so that they can escape.


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## TheKillerBs (Oct 10, 2016)

I'd argue that you should only bother with it in worldbuilding if it's directly relevant to the plot. If it isn't, spend the absolute minimum with it. There's a whole host of other, more important, issues you could spend your time and effort tackling.

ETA: Also, every time I see Sanderson's laws brought up, I always try to remember the zeroth law: Err on the side of awesome.


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## Froboy69 (Oct 11, 2016)

TheKillerBs said:


> I'd argue that you should only bother with it in worldbuilding if it's directly relevant to the plot. If it isn't, spend the absolute minimum with it. There's a whole host of other, more important, issues you could spend your time and effort tackling.



Not really important in the plot; I mean, naturally you'll see common instances where the reader understands the world bit by bit because of a particular occurrence, but that's it. As of now, the mysteries of how this world is because of something isn't of importance to the plot.


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## Sheilawisz (Oct 12, 2016)

Hello everyone.

I have been following the thread, and just decided that it's a good moment to make a post. There is no need for wrath from the staff, but I do think that it's a good idea to post a reminder of the Mythic Scribes Forum Guidelines here.

It is of particular importance to be as respectful of other members as possible, and avoid any exchange of messages charged with degrading, snide or derisive comments.

Froboy: I think that the surreal and truly magical nature of your Noches world is really great. This style of things in a setting reminds me a lot of some of my own surreal Fantasy settings, where there are things like worlds in the shape of islands that float in an endless sea and have moons of their own.

I love stuff like that.

My advice to you is that you need to let it be what it is. There is no need for it to be scientifically accurate or plausible, and actually I think that you would ruin it if you made it more realistic. Sure that some Fantasy stories need realistic and believable worlds, but others do well with the surreal and there are plenty of people that love this kind of thing.

In case that you need any help with the language, I would be happy to assist you.


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## Steerpike (Oct 12, 2016)

There are different types of fantasy novels, some of which adhere to fairly stringent world-building rules and some which are purely fantastic and don't concern themselves with fitting the magic or fantasy of the world within any sort of rules-based framework.

Ever read The Girl Who Circumnavigated Fairy Land in a Ship of Her Own Making? That's one example. What about Howl's Moving Castle? The moving abode of Howl is an engineering nightmare that wouldn't hold up to even a cursory scientific/engineering analysis. Look at works in the 'new weird' category of fantasy, or the details of the worlds/multiverse in the Elric Books, or what is going on half the time in Dying Earth stories, or in the myriad of gaming-related titles in D&D, WH40K, etc. Much of it doesn't make a lick of sense if you try to force rational thought or rules-based world creation on it. Tolkien?

You CAN have a rules-based, logical fantasy world, of course. That's a subset of fantasy and perfectly legitimate. But there are also plenty of fantasy novels where bizarre, impossible worlds just exist and _are_ within the context of the story. Also perfectly plausible. Sometimes heavy criticism of the latter comes from a failure to understand what sort of work the author is writing, or a desire to paint subjective preferences as objective requirements.


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## Froboy69 (Oct 12, 2016)

Sheilawisz said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> I have been following the thread, and just decided that it's a good moment to make a post. There is no need for wrath from the staff, but I do think that it's a good idea to post a reminder of the Mythic Scribes Forum Guidelines here.
> 
> ...




Of course. I was just under the impression that the criticism was too vague and not justifiable; I've experienced cases where someone would criticize my work without actually giving reasonable points/flaws and is simply there just to find a reason to dislike the idea while being close-minded. That type of criticism irritates me. However I changed my mind after I got a more detailed explanation to what they saw as an issue. All is well now.

Yes it doesn't have to be realistic but I find it fun when it's easy to imagine and give more to the imagination itself hence my decision to add these factors~

Also, I would love help in the future~


Thank you!


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## Froboy69 (Oct 12, 2016)

Steerpike said:


> There are different types of fantasy novels, some of which adhere to fairly stringent world-building rules and some which are purely fantastic and don't concern themselves with fitting the magic or fantasy of the world within any sort of rules-based framework.
> 
> Ever read The Girl Who Circumnavigated Fairy Land in a Ship of Her Own Making? That's one example. What about Howl's Moving Castle? The moving abode of Howl is an engineering nightmare that wouldn't hold up to even a cursory scientific/engineering analysis. Look at works in the 'new weird' category of fantasy, or the details of the worlds/multiverse in the Elric Books, or what is going on half the time in Dying Earth stories, or in the myriad of gaming-related titles in D&D, WH40K, etc. Much of it doesn't make a lick of sense if you try to force rational thought or rules-based world creation on it. Tolkien?
> 
> You CAN have a rules-based, logical fantasy world, of course. That's a subset of fantasy and perfectly legitimate. But there are also plenty of fantasy novels where bizarre, impossible worlds just exist and _are_ within the context of the story. Also perfectly plausible. Sometimes heavy criticism of the latter comes from a failure to understand what sort of work the author is writing, or a desire to paint subjective preferences as objective requirements.




Very insightful, thank you so much.


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## Russ (Oct 12, 2016)

I am not sure what the OP is looking for out of this thread, but allow me to explain my concern on the issue that has been bounced around above.  My concern is about what tone is set and what is delivered on the promises. I apologize for the length of this post but I don't have time to edit it properly.

I read the whole first post in detail and this jumped out at me:



> Ruiz thought about the correct order that was needed for him to properly explain. “There are sixty seconds in a minute, sixty minutes in an hour, thirteen hours for Night and thirteen hours for True Night. Thus making a total of twenty-six hours in a ‘whole night’. Every hour, natural water in the world changes color in a certain order. Thus, we tend to keep water in glass containers reflecting ‘real time’. We’re able to tell minutes by sensing the cycle in water with basic magic. How we view it varies from living being to living being.
> “For an entire moon cycle, The Moon carries a colored ‘shadow hue’, which lasts for twenty-five Nights, and will convert into a different color afterwards. There is a total of fourteen cycles that make up a ‘blue cycle’. Thus, a complete blue moon is considered as the mark for an entire year. The Moon becomes completely blue in this process instead of just its hue, and this will not occur again until fourteen cycles later.” Ruiz sighed heavily after finishing the long explanation.



I thought to myself:  "This is simply awesome.  This dude put some serious work into designing this world and done the hard work and is going to give a tight world."  (leaving aside that it sounds like an info-dump in a prologue.  I liked the "hard" done set in that paragraph very much.  I would read and enjoy a book with that kind of detail and deep thought.

Then later I read: 





> Aside from the magic system that we all carry, it's not uncommon for eye color and hair color to be influence by magic; one could have dark green hair and orange eyes just because...



This gives me the reverse feel from the first paragraph quoted.  Later I learn that the writer has solved all of the problems posed by a world of darkness by simply saying "magic" is the solution.  That is a totally different feel from the first paragraph which is so precise and shows a writer who has wrestled a serious problem to the ground and pinned it mercilessly.  The first quote sets a tone of a book where there are strict world building rules adhered to, the idea "magic" solves all problems sets a different tone.

Now I know nothing about your story or its goals (other than to explore non-european cultures which I think is a great idea, I have read some great Caribbean based fantastical work and I love it) so I can't tell you which tone suits your goals better, but I think you should probably use one of those tones rather than both.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Oct 12, 2016)

Fantasy is not the place for "X is impossible because..." "You can't do X because..." If those statements held any power here fantasy wouldn't be a thing.

"Cuz magic" is a perfectly acceptable reason for something. Heck, you don't need a reason at all. 

However...

A lot depends on the kind of story you're trying to tell. All fantasy is not alike. What purpose does your magic serve? Your answer to that question will affect how you should handle magic. If you're going for wonder and whimsy, no explanation is needed. But, if you're building plotlines, races and cultures on this magic, then it will have to be a firmer foundation. 

This is only to say that the magic has to be governed by rules and parameters...basically, we have to know its nature, what it can and cannot do. If your magic does whatever you want whenever you want it, the reader just sees that you're using it as a crutch for your story. But if it has a set of specific, consistent rules it follows, sometimes solving problems, sometimes creating them, it becomes a dynamic element of the story that deepens it and fleshes it out. Personally, I like your world and ideas, and I don't think you need worry about whether you "can" use them. It is a fantasy story. You make the rules. 

Never, ever let anyone tell you that you "can't" do something, or that your ideas are illegitimate. Fantasy does not have those limits. Anything is possible if you can do it well.


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## Froboy69 (Oct 13, 2016)

Russ said:


> I am not sure what the OP is looking for out of this thread, but allow me to explain my concern on the issue that has been bounced around above.  My concern is about what tone is set and what is delivered on the promises. I apologize for the length of this post but I don't have time to edit it properly.
> 
> I read the whole first post in detail and this jumped out at me:
> 
> ...




Oh yes, my remark about eye color and hair color was a bit lazy on my part hahaa. But I assure you that I've taken steps to avoid that.

Thank you though, as you're right that I shouldn't make magic the solution to everything nor should I make it as a "Get out of jail free card". Personally, I went in the matter of the first paragraph which is in the story itself. I had to promise myself that using magic itself _needed_ rules. Otherwise it would be "broken"...

But I will tell you this: it was hard for me to decide on the condition/rules of magic through every angle...but no spoilers~


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## Froboy69 (Oct 13, 2016)

DragonOfTheAerie said:


> Fantasy is not the place for "X is impossible because..." "You can't do X because..." If those statements held any power here fantasy wouldn't be a thing.
> 
> "Cuz magic" is a perfectly acceptable reason for something. Heck, you don't need a reason at all.
> 
> ...



You're definitely right. I was actually embarrassed with my first draft because I forgot about taking that into consideration. 

I think that conditions are the most important factor when it comes to manipulating reality...that being said, I do wonder how I will decide the "faith" of this world; I may have been a little vague about this, but I've considered making the protagonist question the necessary of magic itself. 

Not really "spoiling", but I find it more interesting to make the protagonist begin to think outside the box to a certain degree.


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## R.H. Smith (Oct 27, 2016)

This is awesome! Born and raised in Puerto Rico, I had never thought to do something like that. Kudos to you my latin brother. You have all my support, and if you have any questions regarding Caribbean culture, society, Taino indians, anything, let me know.


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## Froboy69 (Nov 5, 2016)

R.H. Smith said:


> This is awesome! Born and raised in Puerto Rico, I had never thought to do something like that. Kudos to you my latin brother. You have all my support, and if you have any questions regarding Caribbean culture, society, Taino indians, anything, let me know.




Thank you man. Luckily for me I grew up in Miami so I do have knowledge of the Caribbean but I'll gladly take any help!


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