# Should Gods be "real" ?



## SMAndy85 (Jul 25, 2017)

In many fantasy worlds, the gods are real beings that walk the earth.

From Dungeons & Dragons, clerics being granted magic by their deity, to <insert your own example, to avoid me giving spoilers>, Gods have had a hand in the world, and have "existed" in a more tangible way than gods in the real world.

I have created a four-god pantheon for my world, my notes on them are at home, so I don't have all their names. Anyway...

Anyone that has read my previous posts will know my world is tide-locked to the sun. This was caused by a cataclysmic impact in its early life, leaving the moon shattered, with a view from the ground much like in the terrible film depicting a Time Machine, and strange creatures of the future. The impact knocked the planet enough to push it into a tide-locked orbit. That shattered moon is the most noticeable deity.

The two main gods are that of Light and Dark. They're among the most obvious things in the world, for those that have travelled enough. On one side of the world it is perpetually light, and on the other, perpetually dark. People realised that too much of either is enough to kill. 

They also noticed that where the light and dark meet, they cancel each other out, and that is where life can occur. This is where the third deity is found; life.

So, that gives us the four gods. Light, Dark, Life and the Moon. The moon handily orbits the planet once every 24 hours, giving people a show of the passage of time, so the goddess of the moon covers time.

My current musings though, revolve around whether these four gods should exist in a standard Fantasy sense. Should they be able to speak with the people, alter events, or show up in a human form on the surface? Should they work purely as belief, as a concept to aid people in overcoming the thought that they are a tiny, insignificant spec on the universe?

Oh, and coincidentally, to these people, the fact that it's a tide-locked world is a good thing. Since they believe that too much of one is certain death, if the planet was spinning faster, they would eventually be directly underneath the light or dark, and that would kill them. The shattered form of the moon is proof of this, as they can see her path through the sky that disappears towards the dark side, and re-emerges from the same point as the light. Eventually, time catches up with everyone.


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## FifthView (Jul 25, 2017)

SMAndy85 said:


> My current musings though, revolve around whether these four gods should exist in a standard Fantasy sense. Should they be able to speak with the people, alter events, or show up in a human form on the surface? Should they work purely as belief, as a concept to aid people in overcoming the thought that they are a tiny, insignificant spec on the universe?



This is entirely dependent on the story you want to tell. No one can answer this question without knowing the story you intend to create.

For a general answer:

If there's some real plot-relevant or character-relevant or theme-relevant reason to have those gods appear in the story as real beings, then do so. Otherwise, there's no need.

A plot-relevant reason might be to get the plot started (god or gods do something), to manipulate events in the plot, to act as arbiters of events, to war against one another (and this affects the plot), etc.

A character-relevant reason might be something like having an atheist character who unexpectedly gets a visit from one of these gods and converts. Or it could be that a character learns he's a demi-god, i.e. the child of one of the gods. Or maybe the character is visited by a god and given a task to accomplish—with some severe penalty if he doesn't. Or maybe the character saw his parents killed by a god when he was a child.

A theme-relevant reason might be to show the uselessness of human endeavors when gods walk among humans. Or, the opposite: to show that human endeavors can even defeat the influence of gods.

There are other possibilities in each of those categories. And, having real-life gods walking around can serve multiple reasons, perhaps in all three categories. The point, though, is that showing these gods as real beings will have an important role in the story you want to tell. If there is no important reason, then there's no good reason to show the gods as real beings.


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## Futhark (Jul 25, 2017)

My thoughts are that if you want them to be characters in the story, with all the accompanying agendas and motives, then make them 'real'.  If not, then why distract the reader with unrelatable, unimportant extras?  It is your story, so you have to decide what you want from it.  Or not.  There is always the option of leaving the true nature of the gods ambiguous, and choosing when your ready.


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## Peregrine (Jul 25, 2017)

Gods should not be real, if by real you mean that they live among mortals, I think you will find many flaws with that, they are gods not mortals, imagine what catastrophy would they do if they decided that one day they wanted to punish humanity for some reason.

Maybe some character who believes he is an avatar of god, like a Egyptian pharaoh is acceptable. Someone who thinks he is a god or that he is descended from a god.

I am against the idea that there are only true gods, I think every culture should have different beliefs, every culture should believe in a different pantheon of god if they are not monotheist or animist.

Do not put gods in the world of the mortals.

I find it bizzare that humans coexist with humans, you will find many flaws, I think.

Tolkien's gods exist in the same world as mortals, but gods never enter Middle-Earth (After the first age). It is unrealistic and incoherent because gods have the ability to travel wherever they like and do what they want, but Tolkien made some pretty lame excuses, Tolkien made another continent so he could hide the gods from mortals.

If you so desperately want gods, treat it like Hinduism treat their gods, make gods live in another planes of existence (dimensions/parallel universes), its a dimension that mortals can not access.
Your gods could actually exist, but mortals can never see them, because they live in another dimension.


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## Steerpike (Jul 25, 2017)

As noted above, it comes down to the type of story you want. Lots of conventional fantasy stories with gods who aren't real or interactive. For stories where gods play active roles as characters, see Malazan, where at least the younger gods are ascended mortals who actually do things in the world and move the story along. There's no right or wrong approach here--do you want the gods to exist and interact with your world?


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## Michael K. Eidson (Jul 25, 2017)

The blogger at Thoughts on Fantasy recently posted her views on this very subject, which you might find helpful in making your decision: Why Gods Are Usually Better Left Off-Stage in Fantasy | Thoughts on Fantasy


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## DMThaane (Jul 25, 2017)

I actually find the gods you've presented far more interesting as reflections of the people in your world, as examples of how they conceptualise and rationalise who they are and the world they live in. They seem such an interesting commentary on how these people see their place in their little unique corner of the universe that if I was reading this story and the gods actually turned up I'd be mildly disappointed. Granted, this is just my opinion, but from what you've posted so far I'd recommend having the gods as concepts, rather than entities.


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## pmmg (Jul 25, 2017)

In the case of the example you present, I don't think I would have them be real and make any attempt to show themselves. I fear I would have to ask the question, what were these Gods before the cataclysmic event that disrupted the moon?

I suppose it could be there were not gods, and they somehow sprang up around these events, or there were some gods and they assumed these roles after the event, or it could even be there are gods of a totally different nature and they are accepting the roles people have assigned to them. 

But the real answer here is another 'It depends...'  as always, I have to start first with what is the story you are trying to tell and how does the presence of real gods help or hinder that tale.


I find myself both agreeing and not agreeing with the article in the post above. I too think Gods ought to play some type of cannot be reckoned with roles, and Gods which do not have such powers may in fact be some type of lesser creature, but I would not limit a story to such definitions. You gotta give the story what it needs and sometimes, that is a god, even if it is not a particularly powerful one.


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## Violent John (Jul 25, 2017)

If I'm understanding you right, then these god's are already more like forces of nature the traditional fantasy god, without a whole lot of personality or reasoning behind their actions. This would mean that even if they're literally walking around the world, they would only really affect it as macguffin's


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## skip.knox (Jul 25, 2017)

I have lots of gods in Altearth. Are any of them real? They are to the people of Altearth. Elves think their gods are real, dwarves think theirs are real and that the elves are following spirits (not necessarily bad). Orcs think their one god is the only god, but other peoples believe all gods are but race-specific manifestations of universal principles. But no god ever sets foot on the stage of my stories, save through the eyes of my characters.

Given the plethora of gods, on one of my back-burners is telling the story of an atheist.


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## SMAndy85 (Jul 26, 2017)

You guys are all rather insightful, and when a thread happens like this, it makes me glad I joined the forum.

It seems virtually unanimous that the gods should not walk the surface like humans. 

Given all the opinions here, especially the comment about being disappointed if they showed up as a human-like being, I think I'm in agreement.

Light and Dark are almost two sides of the same coin. Where a temple exists, it is to both of these, since too much of one is seen to be deadly.


I'm getting close to having my world done now. Thanks!


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## elemtilas (Jul 26, 2017)

SMAndy85 said:


> You guys are all rather insightful, and when a thread happens like this, it makes me glad I joined the forum.
> 
> It seems virtually unanimous that the gods should not walk the surface like humans.
> 
> ...



I'd break with that unanimity. I do take issue with "gods" that are really nothing more than ordinary people with a few special powers. Leastways in fantasy, such folks are typically called "wizards" or "mages" or something. I also take issue with reducing gods to ridiculous caricatures. As with "fantasy races", gods should serve a purpose within the world being revealed and that purpose should be substantial.

Gods that get used just because you've got a big cgi budget are too much of a muchness. They would by rights overpower anything the lesser, mortal characters try to do. A one sided struggle that the weaker side can never hope to win makes for bad reading. Gods that get their work done in the background or whose powers are curtailed while in the world are much better for the purposes of narrative.

A god that enters the world but lets people get on with being people is far better than a god that comes down and fixes everything. A god that enters the world for the purpose of finding out what the heck is going on also works well. A god that enters the world and works to save it from within, by trying to convince people of the rightness & wisdom of a course of action works far better than a god that comes down, snaps her fingers and makes everything alright again.

Consider Gandalf. As a Maia spirit being, he is what we'd call a minor deity. Yet no one in Middle Earth seems to be aware of this except of course the other Istari and, most likely, Old Tom Himself. When these gods enter the physical universe, they take on forms --- bodies and minds --- that conform to physical existence. He can't leap mountains or zap whole armies of Orcs into non-existence with a snap of the fingers. He has to eat and rest; he can be injured and can die. His divine mission, and indeed the divine mission of the others of his Order, is not to "fix" anything. He doesn't stride the world as a god, but tries to draw people back onto the right path. His job is to offer counsel, to help the people of the world fix their problems.


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## SMAndy85 (Jul 26, 2017)

elemtilas said:


> His job is to offer counsel, to help the people of the world fix their problems.



You don't have to walk the Earth to offer guidance and fix problems though. That can be done by the priests praying, and getting a response.


I've just had a revelation about my gods... They are real, they once walked the earth, but don't any more. There is a reason for it...


A long time ago, Aitera was a bland, blank canvas of a planet. Rocky, volcanic, had water... but nothing else. High above, Ellios, the god of Light shone down, and watched the planet. Not much happened, but it intrigued him, so he created a physical form for himself, and appeared there. 

Likewise, as he saw what he could do on this planet, and the awesome views and effects of a new planet enthralled him. Ymir, the goddess of the Dark saw what he was doing, and joined him. Their powers met, light cancelled dark, and such extreme powers together being cancelled out like that pulled the moon down, where it shattered. They realised what they had done, and retreated out of their physical forms, pulling the moon back into orbit.

Little did they know that during their meeting, their powers did two things;

Firstly, they formed offspring. Ghyver was born, the giver of life. She was more mortal than her parents, and could only walk along the edge where the power of her parents met, and she gave life to the world. Plants, animals, and eventually, humans.

The reason she was more mortal than her parents was because part of the power was fused with the moon as it was pulled back into orbit, and gained a power of its own. From here, Aethir's power was spread over all the fragments, even the ones that were left within the planet, and that is where Tiers, the magical stones that enable people to have magical powers come from.

Now that life exists on the planet, Ellios and Ymir are unable to walk the surface again, for they know their power would be too great, and it would destroy not only all the plants, animals and humans, but also their daughter, who did not gain their godly immortality.

That does mean that Ghyver is still walking the surface. She is mortal though; she lives, and dies like humans. Reincarnating into a new life each time. She doesn't have anywhere near the godly power that her parents have, and doesn't commune with followers in the same way... but every time, she is drawn to become a Priestess at the temples that are built to her original life, regaining some of her memories when she reaches maturity. Through this cycle, she can keep an eye on her creations.


This of course is based on the religious knowledge of a single continent. A pretty large one, but still. If I write something about other continents and bring it all together, I may have to come up with alternative ideas.


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## elemtilas (Jul 26, 2017)

SMAndy85 said:


> You don't have to walk the Earth to offer guidance and fix problems though. That can be done by the priests praying, and getting a response.



Of course! Letters could also appear in people's mail boxes. Fish could rise out of the sea and teach the birds to arrange corns into guidance texts.

But if you're going to have gods that interact with people, it's best (for the purpose of story) to circumscribe their powers and hide their natures.


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## Steerpike (Jul 26, 2017)

elemtilas said:


> But if you're going to have gods that interact with people, it's best (for the purpose of story) to ... hide their natures.



Why?

As for spiritual guidance without gods walking the earth, of course you can have that. But you don't _have_ to do it that way. The problem with these sorts of questions is that to the extent they're looking for prescriptive advice, they're operating on a faulty premise. It's the same with the discussion on fictional races. "Any or all of the above" is the correct answer, and then it is up to you as a writer to handle the ramifications of that decision and to create a world and story for which a reader is willing to suspend her disbelief. The underlying decisions are all down to subjective preferences, and there isn't much to be gained by pretending they're not.

These threads are useful in determining the ramifications of a decision, gaming them out so to speak, and allowing the author to make adjustments based on feedback and their own analysis of the advice given. I don't agree that one approach is right or wrong, and you can't really say what is "best" for the story unless you're looking at the actual story, in context. For some stories, having open and obvious gods walking the earth could be problematic; for others it could be necessary.


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## elemtilas (Jul 26, 2017)

Steerpike said:


> Why?



Because then you have to deal with the problems already outlined.

Like this: 15 April 2912.

Titanic is steaming merrily along. Spotter sees ice berg in the distance. He calls out: "Iceberg dead ahead!" Then half whispers a prayer: "Poseidon save us all!" Deus ex Machina rises up out of the sea, bronze trident gleaming in the ship's lights. He snaps his fingers and poufs the ice berg out of existence. Spotter craps his britches (again), but is thankful the ship was saved.

Um.

Yeah.

Or like this: 7 September 1940.

A low droning sound is heard over the Kentish countryside. Dark shadows flying high in the gloom. The roar of engines speeds to the northwest --- the bombers are heading for London! Soldier in the defensive works cries out: "Save us!" Britannia steps down off her pedestal and waves her gleaming bronze trident defiantly towards the approaching bombers.

*Pffp!* Silence reigns over the dark city. The bombers have been poufed out of existence. In fact, every Nazi has been poufed out of existence, along with all the weapons and tanks and ships and subs. All of Germany is reverted to primeval forest.

Okay.

Not much room for narrative, you see. A god striding the earth with godlike powers and using those godlike powers doesn't do any good for human sized narrative. Problems are resolved without struggle, perhaps even without knowledge that there is a problem. Growth can not occur, character can not develop. When misused, gods make things too easy.



> As for spiritual guidance without gods walking the earth, of course you can have that. But you don't _have_ to do it that way. The problem with these sorts of questions is that to the extent they're looking for prescriptive advice, they're operating on a faulty premise. It's the same with the discussion on fictional races. "Any or all of the above" is the correct answer, and then it is up to you as a writer to handle the ramifications of that decision and to create a world and story for which a reader is willing to suspend her disbelief. The underlying decisions are all down to subjective preferences, and there isn't much to be gained by pretending they're not.



Naturally! Though the problem with gods is rather different. Generations of fantasy writers have done okay with out-of-the-box elves. Gods are different, especially when they're proposed to be unencumbered. It's not so much a matter of handling the ramifications as avoiding the yawning abyss in the first place.



> These threads are useful in determining the ramifications of a decision, gaming them out so to speak, and allowing the author to make adjustments based on feedback and their own analysis of the advice given. I don't agree that one approach is right or wrong, and you can't really say what is "best" for the story unless you're looking at the actual story, in context. For some stories, having open and obvious gods walking the earth could be problematic; for others it could be necessary.



True that! Any number of approaches can be tried. I'm of the opinion, at least as far as gods are concerned, that the approach that quells narrative before it even gets started is nÃ²t the best approach to take!

I guess unless you're writing deliberately underwhelming microfiction.


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## Steerpike (Jul 26, 2017)

elemtilas said:


> Because then you have to deal with the problems already outlined.
> 
> Like this: 15 April 2912.
> 
> ...



I'm not sure what any of that has to do with hiding their natures. This is all power related.

In any event, you're making assumptions about the narrative based on facts not in evidence. Some narratives wouldn't work with gods. But what if your story is about interactive gods walking the earth, and how that affects the development of mortal societies, mortal moralities, mortal worldviews, and like? What if you're writing _Lord of Light_? What if you're somewhere in between--like in the Malazan books, where sometimes the gods hide their natures and sometimes they reveal themselves? I think in order to determine whether it is "best" for the story to hide the nature of gods or not have them, you first have to know what story you're talking about.


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## Mythopoet (Jul 26, 2017)

elemtilas said:


> Not much room for narrative, you see.



That depends entirely on the type of narrative you are creating. No, you might not be able to write a simple human action or suspense story if you've got gods striding the world. But why would you? If you've got Gods and humans and the supernatural all interacting on the same plane, you can write a world-shaking epic. You can write stories of wonder and mystery on a whole different level. It's entirely about what you are trying to accomplish. 

Right now I'm watching an anime series called Rage of Bahamut which has humans, gods and demons all in conflict with each other. The balance of power shifts based on the circumstances of the story. In the beginning the humans are at the mercy of the gods who help protect them from the demons. Later on after a cataclysmic event the gods and demons both find their power diminished and the humans rise up against both with the help of questionable technology. In the background there's the constant threat of the immense supernatural dragon Bahamut that could easily destroy them all if he breaks free from his bonds. Personally, I think the world building and the use of gods and demons incredibly effective. I'd hate for someone to have told the creators of this franchise that gods and humans can't exist together.


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## Devor (Jul 26, 2017)

So in general, I think most people would be better off avoiding religion and gods in their works.  The reason is, it's a cliche-trap. It's the god-of-death with a cult, against a group of all-powerful gods who can't do anything for reasons that don't make a lot of sense.  You're better off avoiding it than falling into the trap.  The gods _should_ be more than the fantasy novelist makes them, but we can't because they would get in the way of the characters, except for the villain who has single-minded, half-wit character followers, and that villain's godhood kind of diminishes the story a bit.

But then again . . . if you can figure out how to solve the problems, how can you pass up the opportunity?  Gods can bring power, theme and wonder a story.  It's a big chance to get creative and stand out.


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## FifthView (Jul 26, 2017)

The assumption that any appearance of a real god is automatically _deus ex machina_, and will always be used as such in a story, simply doesn't match up with my own imagination.

One might as well argue against magic swords since a hero warrior could single-handedly destroy an entire enemy army with it—even if that army comprises 20,000 dragons!  Yes, you could do that; but that's not the only way to incorporate magic swords into a story (or dragons for that matter.)

That said....



elemtilas said:


> A god that enters the world but lets people get on with being people is far better than a god that comes down and fixes everything. A god that enters the world for the purpose of finding out what the heck is going on also works well. A god that enters the world and works to save it from within, by trying to convince people of the rightness & wisdom of a course of action works far better than a god that comes down, snaps her fingers and makes everything alright again.



I do think that a multitude of possibilities exist, and that, were it me, I'd probably give different shadings to the god than mere Snapper-of-fingers. Although...._Q_ from Star Trek was awfully fun, come to think of it.


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## Demesnedenoir (Jul 26, 2017)

Well, so much of this depends too on how you define "god". I have a pile of religions in the world with varying systems and pantheons. The "true" gods can no longer reach the stage, but oh how they want to! The overarching world plot is all about the gods wanting to return. In the past there was the Age of God Wars, where the gods could be brought to the world to battle other gods. There's a whole system to this setup.

Then, there are different "gods" who do still walk the world, but they might accurately be called beings people choose to worship. They are powerful, they can impart that power to worshippers, but they don't smite cities and destroy worlds... they aren't that kind of god. 

So, gods can walk the world, it's just better if you escape the modern conception of what a god is.


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## Devor (Jul 26, 2017)

In the story of mine that uses gods, there are six of them, and they used to try and micromanage the world and its people, but that didn't work out.  Eventually they made a vow to stay out of the world, except that each of them runs a particular angle of the magic system and can adjust the rules of it from time to time.  They also have left powerful artifacts in the world, and some other magical tidbits, from their earlier days that are still lingering about.

Only, things got so bad that one of the gods broke their vow. That one god came down and literally changed the landscape in an effort to fix things.  But when he finished, he had to face the consequences of breaking his vow, and lose the bulk of his power.

The villain in the story is trying to wreck the world enough to convince the other gods to break their vows and lose their powers in order to stop him.  He thinks the gods are unfair and unkind, and by using death and mayhem to goad them into breaking their vows, he can help end their reign.


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## Annoyingkid (Jul 26, 2017)

Gods can run the gamut of being either just vague legend all the way to _the _main character. if you go down the route of making them actual characters then you can't stay vague anymore. They need the same as any other character. Wants, needs, worldviews, personalities, flaws, dramatic potential and so on. If you have them be legends and far off, never incarnate figures of worship, it's best to stay vague and be mysterious. In fact the most difficult way of writing gods is the kind where they're neither concrete characters or vague legends. When it's not clear what their role is. When they're in between and more like guides to the hero. You'd need some reason why the deity limits themselves to that role if it seems they can do more.

My story is basically elves vs. the creator of the universe and it works just fine.


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## elemtilas (Jul 26, 2017)

Steerpike said:


> I'm not sure what any of that has to do with hiding their natures. This is all power related.
> 
> In any event, you're making assumptions about the narrative based on facts not in evidence.



Well of course. Reason being, there are no facts in evidence!



> But what if your story is about interactive gods walking the earth, and how that affects the development of mortal societies, mortal moralities, mortal worldviews, and like?



Then there's no issue with gods just being gods and getting on with things.



> What if you're writing _Lord of Light_? What if you're somewhere in between--like in the Malazan books, where sometimes the gods hide their natures and sometimes they reveal themselves? I think in order to determine whether it is "best" for the story to hide the nature of gods or not have them, you first have to know what story you're talking about.



I think we're getting ahead of ourselves now. Depending on the kind of story, you could have the gods the gods themselves bow down and worship. You could have all the very minor and weak gods rising up against a particular bully. Gods and humans allying against an intruder god... whatever.

For the sake of argument, I chose to narrow the focus down to story types that involve human action rather than divine. After all, if the story is _about_ gods, then the whole discussion of whether the gods should be real or not is rather moot!


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## Steerpike (Jul 26, 2017)

elemtilas said:


> I think we're getting ahead of ourselves now. Depending on the kind of story, you could have the gods the gods themselves bow down and worship. You could have all the very minor and weak gods rising up against a particular bully. Gods and humans allying against an intruder god... whatever.



So you're saying not having powerful or open and obvious isn't necessarily best _per se_ but may or may not be best depending on the type of story you're writing?

I'm please to report that we are in agreement!


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## elemtilas (Jul 26, 2017)

Steerpike said:


> So you're saying not having powerful or open and obvious isn't necessarily best _per se_ but may or may not be best depending on the type of story you're writing?
> 
> I'm please to report that we are in agreement!



Yay!

Context is what it's all about.

The OP asks about a setting where powerful gods might interact with ordinary people. I still stand by what I've said on that. Probably best to either leave the gods out entirely or send messengers or else find some way to curtail their powers. Especially given what's already been said about how the powers of the gods have already affected the world, its moon and the environment!

For the thousand and one other types of story one could write about gods, well, we could explore other "probably bests" for them when the time comes.

PS: It's not my intention to come across as all "do it this way and no other". That's obviously not constructive.


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## SMAndy85 (Jul 27, 2017)

It seems that this thread is still going, even after I've decided on my deities. That's awesome, and so I'm happy to keep on going!

It seems that fundamental issues with this are as follows;

Deities that wander the Earth have issues that they are 1, immortal, and 2, all powerful. They have too much power to be wandering the world, and the path of the world's progression is entirely under the control of those deities. If they don't bend the world to their will, there needs to be a reason for it, or it won't be believable, and people won't find it interesting.

Deities that don't wander the world, but still shape it by their will essentially just have a pile of ants in front of them, and they're burning them with magnifying glasses for fun, and putting walls up in front of them to see what they do. It still curtails progression, and makes them the focus of the story. It's an overly convenient plot-hammer for how the hero decides to do something.


Deities that don't actually "exist" still have followers. People believe they are being spoken to by deities, and guided aren't really being, and then it's a politically intriguing story about religious people trying to get more power for themselves, when they've done nothing to really deserve it, and the hero is struggling against them.

It's about doing what is right for the narrative. If your story revolves around the gods, then the other characters are secondary by nature, and don't have the power to affect things as much.

Of course, one of the suggestions earlier that creating a physical form weakens them, and thus they still have to deal with the people.. but arguably, are they still then true Gods? This thread was originally about true gods that have the power to essentially do what they want. They just decide not to do the things that might destroy the world they look over. It would be incredibly disappointing to a reader if the end of the story was the gods deciding "screw this.".


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## Annoyingkid (Jul 27, 2017)

> It's about doing what is right for the narrative. If your story revolves around the gods, then the other characters are secondary by nature, and don't have the power to affect things as much.



No, not by nature, more like by definition. 

I'm not sure what your argument is. Are you saying that it's impossible to write a compelling story with a infinitely powerful deity on the centre stage or just very difficult?


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## SMAndy85 (Jul 27, 2017)

I think consensus so far has been that if you're trying to write a story where a "normal person" is the main character, it becomes more difficult to write their story if there are infinitely powerful deities around as well. They are just too likely to either take over focus, act like plot mcguffins, or feel weakly implemented if they don't utilise their infinite power.

If your story actually revolves around the gods, then there's no problem with them being infinitely powerful, and wandering freely around, as there would be others to conflict with them.

It's down to your own story requirements as you write. I've made decisions on my original question based on things that have been said here, and opted for a mixture of all-powerful deities that don't take part in the world, and one that isn't all-powerful, but wanders the planet in the form of a normal mortal.

Treating it like a game, it's about balance. Lean it too far in one direction, and it may not fit so well. Likewise if you change the rules part way through, people will put it down and never touch it again. Unless of course, your story is about the serious underdog.

Disclaimer: this is personal opinion based on what has been said in this thread so far.


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## Eden Lost (Sep 6, 2017)

I'm currently struggling with balancing the multilayers of my plot. I had some ideas for old gods vr. false/new gods backbone that could drive some of the motivation for the more surface actions. The story will span a few kingdoms but the source of conflict takes place in Cavalia. The kingdom has been through a long period of drought and famine as the new gods (triplet war gods, sons of the previous war god) killed nature spirits to absorb their powers and drove out the local deities that usually nurture the land. On command of these gods, the kingdom is using rituals to steal the nature spirits of other countries to rejuvenate their own land and further power the war gods. The failing fertility of the surrounding kingdoms drives some of them to raid Cavalia for their resources. 

I worry that using a divine conflict as the fuel for human actions is unnecessarily complicated and cheapens the actions of the human antagonists. Human greed would also be a sufficient driving force for the plot (with some minor changes). Is there something to be said for streamlining a story down? Especially when active deities are not necessary for plot depth?


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## TheKillerBs (Sep 7, 2017)

I dunno, I think divinely-backed antagonists are more threatening than just greedy antagonists. You can reason with greed. You can't reason with a religious fanatic. Especially not if the deity they believe in is a real entity.


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## Eden Lost (Sep 7, 2017)

I hadn't thought of that aspect. That is an extremely compelling argument for a divine root for the antagonists and making the tension even higher.


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## bestellen (Sep 11, 2017)

Where a temple exists, it is to both of these, since too much of one is seen to be deadly.


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