# How do you promote your work?



## Devor (Mar 3, 2012)

Simple question.  I've been thinking pretty seriously about self-publishing and promoting a book online for a month or two.  I've a number of thoughts about how I would go about it, and I'll be happy to share them if we can get a discussion going.

*What are you doing to promote your work online?  Does it work for you?*

I've heard people talk about blogs and allude to a presence on other forum communities.  What tactics do you use to try and make these activities successful?

If we get a good discussion going, I'm going to update this initial post with a list of the ideas people put out.  Maybe it can turn into a reference guide.  At the very least, it'll be a copy of whatever reference list I put together for myself.


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## JCFarnham (Mar 4, 2012)

I want to preceed my advice with this little point:

*I'm not published, not even Self-, but I have studied marketing extensively at degree level.*

1) You could go the obvious route and look into some traditional advertising. Your work in banners where ever it is authors are allowed to do that. (In the world of webcomics the project wonderful banner exchange is a good example of the kind of thing I'm talking about here.) You could even make a book trailer.

2) Traditional routes are often too expensive or time consuming for self-published authors. A way around this is to make good use of free advertising. This includes but isn't limited to the almost compulsory social media presence, but you may also definitely want to think about building relations with a variety of different communities. When done right there is typically no more powerful way to get noticed than word of mouth. Get people talking. 

2a) In the above sense pushing a blog is a good move. Make sure you don't ONLY talk about the fact you're selling something. People get very suspicious very quickly, and are far more likely to buy something from someone they know as a person first and a businessman later. 

3) If you can find a niche and exploit that. "Remember that guy who..." is a good a phrase to have on people's lips. Even if THEY don't buy your books they are spreading your name for FREE. That can't be a bad thing. In fact they'd be doing the majority of the work for you.

If I can think of anything else I'll come back and post. My knowledge is failing me. I blame it on not having lunch yet haha


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## Kelise (Mar 4, 2012)

I'm not published nor looking at self-publishing, but a good way could be to offer a giveaway on GoodReads. First Reads: ending soon giveaway

Also - and I'm not sure on the polite way to do this - but to try and get a few blogs who review books, to review yours. 

Perhaps you could print up a few bookmarks that are eye-catching and simply link to your site or where you can get a preview/buy your book, and see if a few local bookstores will keep them on the counter for you. My local bookstore asks if you want a bookmark with your book, and they shove a few in. Most of the time, they're advertising books or events.

Could it also be a good idea to have a list of what *NOT* to do? Then we could see people who may say they would find the bookmark option rude or pushy (hence why my bookstore asks people if they want one first.)

One way NOT to do it, in my opinion (others may not be bothered) is to try and friend people on GoodReads when you don't know them, just because you see they read the same genre.


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## Philip Overby (Mar 4, 2012)

1.  From the standpoint of someone who has lots of small press writers on his Facebook, I would suggest promoting _very little_ on social media.  For me, seeing endless streams of people promoting their books by just posting links to them with no explanation is kind of like spamming to me.

2.  If you're going to promote the book, one thing I would always do is make sure to offer samples somehow.  If you upload to Kindle, there is the option to sample.  

3.  Post excerpts in some places maybe.  So many times people promote books and don't offer anything of what they wrote.  

4.  Offer contests or giveaways to get your book for free.  This always seems to pique interest in smaller communities.  If people are interested in your book enough to enter a contest, then I think that's pretty good.

5.  Places like "Book Pimp" on Facebook.  It's a place that welcome promotion of whatever you're doing.  Utilize tools such as that because then it isn't considered spamming.

6.  Build connections with other writers.  If you have good connections with other writers, they'll in turn help you promote your book.  Publishing has always seemed like a "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" kind of industry.  I notice a lot of writers have formed "circles" of sorts.  

7.  Make lists on Amazon with your book that may have similar content or style as yours.  A lot of people get books based on recommendations and lists.  At least I do.  So doing that might help get the word out more.  I'm not sure how Goodreads works, but there is probably a way you can do that without seeming awkward.

8.  Display your skill/personality any chance you get.  If I notice a writer is really funny or witty in their interactions online, I'll be more likely to sample their books because they seem like interesting people.  If someone is interesting to me, I'm more likely to buy something from them.

These are just some things I think can work and I agree with what others have said so far.


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## JCFarnham (Mar 4, 2012)

Phil the Drill said:


> 1.  From the standpoint of someone who has lots of small press writers on his Facebook, I would suggest promoting _very little_ on social media.  For me, seeing endless streams of people promoting their books by just posting links to them with no explanation is kind of like spamming to me.



This is certainly a different take on what I was trying to say, though I would always suggest using social media. You are missing out if you don't have a social presence on the internet (how ever you end up going about doing that). It is by far one of the most important communication tools out there in the marketing tool-box. And it doesn't have to be heavy handed. People often get the wrong idea and use it simply as a new platform to spam, with little consideration towards effective use of the medium. Rather than a new way to post links, and plug like crazy, its a platform one should use to cultivate a fanbase, a following, a whatever you personally call it. A sly mention of a book in what at least _seems_ to be meaningful discussion is surprisingly effective. People will be intrigued and go search it out for themselves.

As you go on to say, seem like an interesting person and you'll sell far more books than if you were heavy handed with your strategy.

Links help, but people are FAR more aware of advertising and marketing these days. Us in the industry have to be a little more crafty with it, and that's where things like viral marketing come into play. I'm sure you've heard of it. 

Summary: Use social media, but not to spam. 

The best thing I think anyone could do is try and use multiple platforms to get their work out there. Some people swear off certain websites, some people trust certain ones, some people simply may not heard of the place you're "advertising". 

Something about eggs and baskets...


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## Philip Overby (Mar 4, 2012)

I didn't want to imply not to use social media.  By all means, use it.  But like you said, there are ways to use it that can be effective and then there is just "Wow, all that author ever posts are links to their book on Amazon."  I eventually blocked people like that.  When book plugs are clogging up my feed, then that's where I draw the line.


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## JCFarnham (Mar 4, 2012)

LATE ADDITION: I have another technique to share that you may or may not be aware happens online these days. Its called SEO, or search engine optimisation. At a glance this is writing your communications, websites, blog posts, anything really using key words in such a way that makes it easier for search engines to bring in hits. It's also about spotting trending ideas and concepts and using those to bring in the hits. It doesn't even have to be about the obvious search engines, SEO can also include maximising the effectiveness of saaaay, blog keywords and the like _within_ the individual websites/platforms.

Having a social presence is one thing, but these days we need to think about a _searchable_ presence. A unique name or ... well I'm sure you get the idea.


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## Devor (Mar 4, 2012)

Phil the Drill said:


> These are just some things I think can work and I agree with what others have said so far.



What I like is that these are ideas for promoting the book itself.  I can understand why people write blogs, but then you have to promote the blog just as much as you promote the book.  In my opinion, getting people to your blog is kind of a bottleneck.

I have a few thoughts, but I'm hoping to see a lot of discussion first.  I want this to be a thread full of useful ideas, instead of me just rambling on with my own.




Phil the Drill said:


> 5.  Places like "Book Pimp" on Facebook.  It's a place that welcome promotion of whatever you're doing.  Utilize tools such as that because then it isn't considered spamming.



Okay.  Is this the right Book Pimp at 184 Likes?  That doesn't seem like it would do much for you.  Are there other places to recommend?


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## JCFarnham (Mar 4, 2012)

Devor said:


> What I like is that these are ideas for promoting the book itself.  I can understand why people write blogs, but then you have to promote the blog just as much as you promote the book.  In my opinion, getting people to your blog is kind of a bottleneck.



I'm going to agree to disagree with you on this one. The book is the product and the blog is the platform. 

By combining the two you only have to promote the one thing, the blog about you as a writer. People will visit the blog and among other things find information on your books and go from there. I haven't experienced this bottleneck you speak of, but surely if you treat your blog as a product and promote it like you would anything else (I don't know toothbrushes, or beer), then you can easily piggy back your book off that (hopeful) success and on the plus side you'll appear an interesting person above all else. Which is something people people will engage with more readily that if ALL you did was plug.

But as I said, we all need to consider using multiple platforms. There is nothing that's going to cut down your work load in self-promoting your book, to do it right we need to put in the hard work - the work of a whole team of people at a publishing house in fact if you like.


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## Philip Overby (Mar 4, 2012)

That was just an example.  However, even it if has 184 likes, that could be 184 people that might look at your book.  If I find other similar things, I'll look.  If you're using all sorts of avenues, big or small, you're potentially expanding your audience that much more.  

Another idea could be forming your own groups on social media.  Get people to join and you can can plug your book that way too.  

Even doing old-fashioned promotion might work.  Post fliers in places in your town with high amounts of readers:  libraries, book stores, etc.  Even if it's only downloadable, people may still be interested in the book.  I think most of what has been suggested so far is marketing online, but there's slews of things you can do to promote in real time.  

Ask local places if you can do a reading.  That could get more readers as well.

An example of what JC said above about blogs is that I started following a blog of a guy I liked because of his writing advice only.  Never read any of his books.  I've since bought two or three of his books because his blog is so entertaining.  He uses the blog as a tool certainly and it's worked.


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## Devor (Mar 4, 2012)

JCFarnham said:


> The book is the product and the blog is the platform.



That doesn't mean it isn't a bottleneck, although I know that's an operations term and not a marketing one.  A bottleneck is just the slowest part of a process.  If it takes a year just to build _reach_ with a marketing tool, that's a bottleneck, hands down.


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## JCFarnham (Mar 4, 2012)

That's certainly true, now you mention it. 

Which is why relying on just a blog would be a waste of time, but a combination of blogging, twitter and perhaps facebook is a good place to begin building your presence. 

Marketing isn't an easy thing to do. You almost have to look in all directions at once, be on the pulse of whats trending and current now, but SOMEHOW anticipate future developments at the same time as learning from the past and the social consciousness. For most people promoting something takes time, in fact I'd go as far to say that for those who seem to be able to do it simply and quickly... well they probably already have some sort of following.

So my conclusion is this: Even though it may be a bottleneck, it's still something to consider. Just because its a slow burner doesn't _necessarily_ mean it's less worth it. 

That being said there is never a right answer in Marketing, either it works _in your present situation_ or doesn't work. It's a case-by-case issue, that depends a lot on the product in question and its target audience. I would start off any campaign as you would in a traditional business... with research. Find out what your target audience uses most frequently and tap into that medium, even if you're not keen on it for that matter. 

Targetted marketing is key for me.


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## MichaelSullivan (Mar 5, 2012)

Devor said:


> Simple question.  I've been thinking pretty seriously about self-publishing and promoting a book online for a month or two.  I've a number of thoughts about how I would go about it, and I'll be happy to share them if we can get a discussion going.
> 
> *What are you doing to promote your work online?  Does it work for you?*



The things that worked best for me....

1) Aggressively working to get reviews of the books from the book blogging community.
2) Doing goodreads giveaway - then offering those people who signed up a free short story.
3) Active on goodreads - and in particular getting the books selected for 'monthly' reads.

Along with those I've done the standard social media stuff: twitter, blog, facebook. Although of those the thing I've probably done the most is the blog.

I've heard people talk about blogs and allude to a presence on other forum communities.  What tactics do you use to try and make these activities successful?

If we get a good discussion going, I'm going to update this initial post with a list of the ideas people put out.  Maybe it can turn into a reference guide.  At the very least, it'll be a copy of whatever reference list I put together for myself.[/QUOTE]


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## Telcontar (Mar 5, 2012)

From what I've read and seen, social media is not a big driver of actual sales. It's good to have a presence on things like Twitter and Facebook, but not to necessarily 'market' on them. 

It's to meet people.

Meeting people means you have more opportunity to impress someone with _who_ you are, not what you're selling. If they're a fan of you as a person they'll spread the word about your work. On the other hand, if you're just using these outlets to constantly squawk about your book you are one-dimensional. Boring. Even annoying. Even if the book is good, you might not find a lot of people willing to help you out.


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## JCFarnham (Mar 5, 2012)

Telcontar said:


> It's to meet people.



Who'll buy your book


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## Telcontar (Mar 5, 2012)

Not necessarily. Certainly, it's nice if they _do_ by the book, but there are plenty of people out there who don't really read what I write (though I have a couple friends who have given fantasy a try in order to give my novellas a try). Even if they don't want to read it, though, they may have friends who read fantasy. I want to use social media to impress the non-readers enough so that they help me spread the word to readers, as well as impressing readers enough to buy. 

Pretty much, that just means maintaining a 'presence' in these communities and being the best possible version of myself.


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## JCFarnham (Mar 5, 2012)

What I'm trying to say is that it isn't really possible to separate "maintaining a presence" (with a blog as part of your toolbox) from "marketing" and selling. One leads to the other and vice verse. If you are more well known, via a blog for example, you'll have more chance of a sale because you have more of a presence, and on the other side of the coin, if you have good sales you'll have hopefully have a found a group of people who are loyal to you as a writer and might want to know you more about you. 

I do think we're more or less on the same point despite how we're using opposite reasoning to make it.

You see, my definition of marketing is thus. When I use the word I'm not just talking about the promotion a single specific product (this is probably the most common view of the field), marketing for me is about more than that. 

A company could have the best product in the world, but _not_ understand their target market, come across as dull and perhaps immoral and not sell (even if they're perfectly environmentally aware and so on, in _comparison_ they could well be seen as doing less than a company who don't reeeally care). Where as the shittiest company with an inferior product could sell more initially because they come across better in their communication material. The point is you can't think of any one part of "marketing" as separate. This presence we're talking about IS marketing, it's marketing yourself and as an extension the product, your fiction.

Anyway, yeah, we're driving at the same point. If you seem like a nice, sensible (confidently spoken) person, people are more likely to shell out money for you.


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## Devor (Mar 6, 2012)

Phil the Drill said:


> That was just an example.  However, even it if has 184 likes, that could be 184 people that might look at your book.  If I find other similar things, I'll look.  If you're using all sorts of avenues, big or small, you're potentially expanding your audience that much more.



Fair enough.  The right 184 people can make a world of difference, so it's certainly worth trying to gauge how active and supportive the community is.




MichaelSullivan said:


> The things that worked best for me....
> 
> 1) Aggressively working to get reviews of the books from the book blogging community.
> 2) Doing goodreads giveaway - then offering those people who signed up a free short story.
> ...



Awesome advice.  Nothing says "read this!" more than, well, a book review by a bunch of people saying "Read this!"




JCFarnham said:


> What I'm trying to say is that it isn't really possible to separate "maintaining a presence" (with a blog as part of your toolbox) from "marketing" and selling.
> 
> . . .
> 
> ...



What you're talking about is _branding_, which is probably the most effective long-term marketing technique.  The author can be thought of as a brand (it doesn't have to be).  But the definition of "Marketing" is about generating interest and qualifying sales, which is done through branding, promotions, setting a price, product evaluation, researching the market, and so on.

The thing I think you're missing is that a self-published author is doing both _marketing_ and _sales_, and the two often take very different skills.  For the moment, let's say that if I'm linking to my blog I'm marketing, while linking to the book means I'm selling.

To me, if I'm here typing a post on a forum, I'm going to hope that whatever I'm typing right now is already enough marketing for you to be interested in my book, especially when you consider that the most compelling marketing information for a reader should already be on that Amazon page.  While a blog might be useful (it's another place to post that link, after all), actually linking to a blog and attempting to build an audience there seems to me like an unnecessary middle step in selling.

Let's get a few new people and then I'll offload my own thoughts on how best to promote a self-published book.  Then I'll start consolidating everyone's ideas into the original post.


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## JCFarnham (Mar 6, 2012)

> What you're talking about is branding, which is probably the most effective long-term marketing technique. The author can be thought of as a brand (it doesn't have to be). But the definition of "Marketing" is about generating interest and qualifying sales, which is done through branding, promotions, setting a price, product evaluation, researching the market, and so on.



Again, semantics. Branding is a marketing tool, therefore a form of marketing, and so my point (despite this inability to express myself properly I seem to have acquired since my degree) still stands.

I hope you can see through my struggle with explaining myself  

It all depends on how successful your blog is for you as a brand. When it comes to authors I don't know personally or yet know at all, I couldn't care less what is said on Amazon. Certain choice, impluse buys and recommendation from trusted friends aside, I'm more likely to buy a book if I feel I *personally* know a little something _more_ about the author than a heavily editted promo paragraph tells me. e.g., its great that Bob Bobson live in Middle, Nowhere with 2.4 children, but what is his opinion on X? 

So, while it _is_ an extra link to slog through, for readers like me (if there are any) social media, forums and blogs go have a large part to play in the decision making process. As I said, I don't think it can really be separated. The best thing must be to cover all the bases.

But we're saying the same thing aren't we. Good brand, simplified sale network (but not to the point of complete anonymity), and so on.


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## Devor (Mar 6, 2012)

JCFarnham said:


> But we're saying the same thing aren't we. Good brand, simplified sale network (but not to the point of complete anonymity), and so on.



We are.  I just wanted to parse the difference because I thought it would help people think about and understand the whole process a little better.  It might help someone when it comes down to really little things like which link to list first in your signature.

Again, once I hear from a few more new people I'll offload my own thoughts on the subject and start compiling everyone's ideas on the original post.  I think this thread can generate something that's helpful for a lot of people.


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## Telcontar (Mar 6, 2012)

You definitely have a more inclusive definition of marketing than I do when I think about it normally. I just think it's funny that, once I gained something to sell (my books) _every single interaction_ I have could be termed 'marketing' from that point of view.

Some of these guys on twitter, though, advertising their book(s) is all they do. Every tweet, every half-hour, like clockwork. I definitely call that marketing, and not the good kind.


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## Devor (Mar 6, 2012)

Telcontar said:


> You definitely have a more inclusive definition of marketing than I do when I think about it normally. I just think it's funny that, once I gained something to sell (my books) _every single interaction_ I have could be termed 'marketing' from that point of view.



That brings up a good question.  What are some of the things you would consider effective ways of interacting with others?  That is, for the purposes of generating interest in your work.




Telcontar said:


> Some of these guys on twitter, though, advertising their book(s) is all they do. Every tweet, every half-hour, like clockwork. I definitely call that marketing, and not the good kind.



If there's no effort to generate interest, and all they're doing is pushing a link, that's not actually marketing.  That's called _hard selling_.

It can work, but it's usually the last resort of a desperate sales person.  Most people take it as a strong indicator that they're just selling garbage, but it can also mean they just don't know how to market and sell effectively.  But as it does sometimes work a little without too much real work, it wouldn't surprise me if some of these people had two twitter accounts, one for marketing professionally and one just for the hard sell.


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## Telcontar (Mar 6, 2012)

Devor said:


> If there's no effort to generate interest, and all they're doing is pushing a link, that's not actually marketing.  That's called _hard selling_.



Hm, always thought _hard sell_ referred to something else. Either way, I'm not sure I ascribe to some of these guys the savvy to have a twitter account just for that. I imagine some of them think that is an effective way to sell. It's a sure way for me to unfollow, though. 

Effective ways of interacting with others? Well, I'm a fairly gregarious person, so talking to people comes naturally (that's actually a big change from how I was earlier in life, but it's natural _now_). Desperation is a big turn off, for one thing. I try not to talk about my writing much in normal conversation, though it's a constant fight. Bring it up rarely, at appropriate times, and in all _other_ aspects of your personality be engaging and interesting. That's the general theory.


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## Devor (Mar 6, 2012)

Telcontar said:


> Desperation is a big turn off, for one thing. I try not to talk about my writing much in normal conversation, though it's a constant fight. Bring it up rarely, at appropriate times, and in all _other_ aspects of your personality be engaging and interesting. That's the general theory.



I'm hoping to put all these ideas together in a checklist or guide that others can refer to, so if you or anyone else has some more specific advice on how to interact with others effectively, I'll be sure to include them.  I want to hear from a few more people before I offload all of my own thoughts, but it might help to mention this now:  On the topic of interacting with others, I'd start with _be genuine_ and _be excited_.


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## MichaelSullivan (Mar 8, 2012)

JCFarnham said:


> It all depends on how successful your blog is for you as a brand. When it comes to authors I don't know personally or yet know at all, I couldn't care less what is said on Amazon. Certain choice, impluse buys and recommendation from trusted friends aside, I'm more likely to buy a book if I feel I *personally* know a little something _more_ about the author than a heavily editted promo paragraph tells me. e.g., its great that Bob Bobson live in Middle, Nowhere with 2.4 children, but what is his opinion on X?



Branding is very important and traditionally publishers have focused more on "the product" and not "the author" which I personally think can be short sighted. One thing to keep in mind is that the way you buy/shop and what is important to you may not be indicitive of others. You say that you couldn't care less what people on Amazon say about the books, but for others -this can be a tipping point in their buying decision.

I think that early in a books lifecycle particular attention should be spent on building creditability - soliciting reviews, getting high in the rankings, making a professional website, blog, and good author pages on Amazon, and so fourth. Once you have some creditability - then the next thing to do is get some eyeballs.  Start the word or mouth. Spend more time on getting people to know that you and the books exist.  There is a danger with driving highballs before having your ducks in the row. You have one chance to make a good first impression so don't put your cart before your horse.


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## MichaelSullivan (Mar 8, 2012)

Devor said:


> That brings up a good question.  What are some of the things you would consider effective ways of interacting with others?  That is, for the purposes of generating interest in your work.



You can't divide your interactions - they are all "you" and should go toward helping to build a brand. I tend to focus on trying to be "helpful" to share experiences I've had both as self-published and big-six published as a way of showing people what is possible.  I talk about the fact that there is no signal way to success, and talent, skill, and persevernce is key to success. Will some people check out my books because of it?  Maybe?  Is that why I do it? No.  I believe in what goes around comes around so if you offer out a helping hand - you'll get good things back in return. Each person has to decide for themselves how to "position" themselves. But it has to be authentic and true to who you are and what you think.  

The best advice on branding I can recommend is a Ted Talk by Simon Sinek who talks about the What, How and Why it's the best 18 minutes you'll ever watch - I highly recommed it.


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## The Dark One (Mar 10, 2012)

Telcontar said:


> Desperation is a big turn off, for one thing. I try not to talk about my writing much in normal conversation, though it's a constant fight. Bring it up rarely, at appropriate times, and in all _other_ aspects of your personality be engaging and interesting. That's the general theory.


Very wise. I used to talk about my writing all the time and only gradually perceived that most (especially my friends) were not interested. People ARE however, interested in success. Once you do get a book published and have a bit of a buzz about your work, everyone wants to talk about it. I have even been in positions where I didn't want people to ask about my work because (especially in the presence of old friends listening in and hearing the same converation again) you can feel a bit self-conscious. I wouldn't have ever dreamed 5 years ago there could be a context in which I'd shy about talking about writing (and my writing in particular).

It's always best if they ask you to talk about your writing, but first they have to know you write. Catch 22.


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## Telcontar (Mar 11, 2012)

The Dark One said:


> I used to talk about my writing all the time and only gradually perceived that most (especially my friends) were not interested.



I was on the other side. Before I got serious about being published I was often in the company of other writers, and they _never shut up_ about their poetry or their short stories or, the worst, _that book they were working on._ I found them so damned annoying that I literally feared talking about my own writing lest I sound like them (from which I took rule #1 of talking about writing: Never talk about anything that isn't finished unless directly asked about it). 

The Catch 22 you described is easy to get around, in my opinion. There are always plenty of ways to 'drop' the fact that you are a writer into conversation. Then, if they want to ask, they can ask.


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## The Dark One (Mar 12, 2012)

Telcontar said:


> The Catch 22 you described is easy to get around, in my opinion. There are always plenty of ways to 'drop' the fact that you are a writer into conversation. Then, if they want to ask, they can ask.


As I said, first they have to know you write...

Of course you can 'drop' the fact that you write, but anyone with finely attuned sensibilities (whose opinion is therefore worth having) will pick up on a stunt, no matter how subtle. As you said above Telcontar, the best way to get people interested in your writing is to get them interested in YOU. Enthusiastic, genuine, nice, intelligent people with an original slant on life will naturally attract interest. And as Michael said, be authentic. Anything else is spam whether it be online or in person.

Just writing about this has made me reflect on my own reasons for joining various writing forums in the last little while. I've been writing a long time (nearly 20 years), have learned a lot and have had some small success - but it's mostly been a solitary pursuit. I'm here because I want to engage with other writers - to learn from those who have done better than me and to pass on my experience to those who are interested.

At least here we all know we're writers and don't have to pull social stunts to talk about our work.


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## MichaelSullivan (Mar 13, 2012)

The Dark One said:


> As I said, first they have to know you write...
> 
> Of course you can 'drop' the fact that you write, but anyone with finely attuned sensibilities (whose opinion is therefore worth having) will pick up on a stunt, no matter how subtle. As you said above Telcontar, the best way to get people interested in your writing is to get them interested in YOU. Enthusiastic, genuine, nice, intelligent people with an original slant on life will naturally attract interest. And as Michael said, be authentic. Anything else is spam whether it be online or in person.



It's all about intention...you mention it being a "stunt" to drop the fact you write but that is because you think of at this way. When I talk about my writing I'm not trying to cajole anyone into buying anything. I'm being myself...and you know what...a big part of what I am has to do with my writing. If people are interested in my experience or books - I'd love for them to ask, but I don't have some "agenda".  If you think that you are somehow promoting it will come off as promoting.  If you are just "being you" then the enthusism, authenticity, and passion for your writing will come thorugh and these will rarely be looked on (except by the trunly cynical) as negative things.



The Dark One said:


> At least here we all know we're writers and don't have to pull social stunts to talk about our work.



"Social stunts" don't work...but talking about your writing, or that you are a writer - if approached with the right mindset is not a social stunt - it is you sharing a big part of what makes you...you.


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## Telcontar (Mar 13, 2012)

MichaelSullivan said:


> it is you sharing a big part of what makes you...you.



This. As long as you're humble about it and - unless you _are_ making your living off of it - don't try to claim you're a professional author, there's no shame in dropping the fact that you are a writer. I'd caution anybody who talks about writing to be prepared to pony up or shut up, though. If you don't have something you'd be willing to show people right then and there (though obviously, you needn't have it _with_ you at any given time) then don't talk about being a writer. 

Actually, I'm much more comfortable talking about being an 'author' than being a writer. I have extant work that people can buy and judge. I've put myself out there. I figure that earns me at least a little credit, even if my work sucks the big one!


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## The Dark One (Mar 14, 2012)

MichaelSullivan said:


> It's all about intention...you mention it being a "stunt" to drop the fact you write but that is because you think of at this way. When I talk about my writing I'm not trying to cajole anyone into buying anything. I'm being myself...and you know what...a big part of what I am has to do with my writing. If people are interested in my experience or books - I'd love for them to ask, but I don't have some "agenda".  If you think that you are somehow promoting it will come off as promoting.  If you are just "being you" then the enthusism, authenticity, and passion for your writing will come thorugh and these will rarely be looked on (except by the trunly cynical) as negative things.
> 
> 
> 
> "Social stunts" don't work...but talking about your writing, or that you are a writer - if approached with the right mindset is not a social stunt - it is you sharing a big part of what makes you...you.


In fact, if you'd read the post to which I was responding you might have noticed that I was advising against pulling stunts such as 'dropping' the fact that you write. This is a very complicated area and not to be resolved with one sentence aphorisms.

You can talk about your writing with all the right mindsets in the world, but you will bore the crap out of your non-writing friends and associates until you have some success. That's my experience. I was agreeing with Telcontar that the best way (probably the only way) to inspire interest in your writing is to be a nice, genuine, interesting, intelligent person, without any obvious exploitative agendas. Hopefully that's being yourself, but if that's not really being yourself, at least you could try to pull off that persona.

Truly, writing is a cut-throat competetive business (especially film writing) and I've encountered some ratbags in my time...all pretending to have no agenda.

I was assuming that this was a place where we could all accept that we have an agenda (ie, engaging with other writers but also inspiring interest in our work) without having to be concerned with point-scoring judgments.

Just to be clear, I'll say it again: your non-writing friends will rapidly tire of you talking about your writing until you are successful. If you want to keep those friends, learn to talk about your next magnum opus only when asked. Once you have success, you will be amazed at how you can sometimes get sick of talking about your writing because you'll have to answer the same questions again and again. At this stage of my journey, I still enjoy the questions...mostly.


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## TWErvin2 (Mar 14, 2012)

Some authors are sort of cut-throat, but not the majority that I've encountered. However, I've no experience in film writing.

The best advertisement/promotion is when someone other than the author touts a work as being a worthwhile read.

I participate in a lot of book events with other authors around, usually either conventions or book fairs. There are plenty of interested readers browsing, but I've observed that the hard-sell rarely works (and if it does, it's my opinion that the reader may purchase the book, but odds are they never actually read it). 

When a potential reader stops by my table, I talk to them about my works if they're interested, or about movies or other authors and things they've read, or what they've enjoyed so far about the convention, etc. If they're looking for a horror or differently type of fantasy or SF work than what I write and/or if my work doesn't seem to be up their alley, I make a point to direct them to some of the authors nearby whose work I know, and appears more along their interests. I also recommend authors and works that aren't at the book fair or convention. 

I realize that readers have only so much $ to spend on reading material, but it's not exactly a 'zero-sum game.' Readers who have a good experience will tend to invest more in reading, than those who have a sour experience. Or that's the theory I work under.

In general, having another individual or group say positive things and promote a work, through reviews for example, I think are far more effective than the author talking about their work. Word of mouth is possibly the most effective. One friend telling a buddy they would enjoy such and such novel and to get a copy...that can't be beat. It's a trusted source the reader is relying on.


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## Addison (Aug 2, 2012)

Here's a way that's working pretty well for me. No matter where you live, big city or small town, you can start by building a line to wait for your book to be on shelves. Tell friends and family you're working on a book and are going to have it published. Give them enough information to get them interested by not enough so they want to get their hands on the book. When your book is accepted by a publisher spread the word. Marketing starts at home with those who are close.


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## Devor (Sep 17, 2012)

I said in the OP that I would put together my notes on marketing, and I just jotted down a bunch of things towards that end.  Would people be interested if I put together something of a how-to-guide about internet marketing and sales?  I would want to do something that could maybe be stickied.


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## Alex Stuart (Sep 18, 2012)

It is a simple strategy and to promote work you need to do efforts and hard work is required with dedication and honesty to promote the work. And it is possible with the help of understanding of work.


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## BWFoster78 (Sep 18, 2012)

Devor said:


> I said in the OP that I would put together my notes on marketing, and I just jotted down a bunch of things towards that end.  Would people be interested if I put together something of a how-to-guide about internet marketing and sales?  I would want to do something that could maybe be stickied.



I'd like it a lot.


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## robertbevan (Sep 23, 2012)

Devor said:


> I said in the OP that I would put together my notes on marketing, and I just jotted down a bunch of things towards that end.  Would people be interested if I put together something of a how-to-guide about internet marketing and sales?  I would want to do something that could maybe be stickied.



i, too, would like that a lot.


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## TobyNeighbors (Oct 2, 2012)

*How I market*



Devor said:


> Simple question.  I've been thinking pretty seriously about self-publishing and promoting a book online for a month or two.
> 
> I'm a self publish author making a living for my family.  Actually, I'm earning more than I ever have working traditional jobs and I'm very happy about that.  I've had books on Amazon's top 100 lists in the Epic Fantasy and Action Adventure categories, climbing as high as #2.
> 
> ...


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## MichaelSullivan (Oct 3, 2012)

TobyNeighbors said:


> I'm a self publish author making a living for my family.  Actually, I'm earning more than I ever have working traditional jobs and I'm very happy about that.  I've had books on Amazon's top 100 lists in the Epic Fantasy and Action Adventure categories, climbing as high as #2.



Toby is a great example of one of the thousands of "mid-list" self-published authors that earn well in the new world of digital publishing. I get so sick and tired when people say that only outliers can make any money in self-publishing I personally know hundreds of authors just like Toby who do well because they write quality books, produce them professionally, and get the word out to them.

Welcome to the forum Toby - I'm sure you'll be a great asset here.


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## CandaceKroslak (Aug 27, 2013)

For the promotion of your work you need to advertise your work. And in today's world online marketing is very popular as you can reach million of people on a single click of mouse. You can also go for traditional methods of promotion.


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## MichaelSullivan (Aug 28, 2013)

CandaceKroslak said:


> For the promotion of your work you need to advertise your work. And in today's world online marketing is very popular as you can reach million of people on a single click of mouse. You can also go for traditional methods of promotion.



Advertising can be really expensive and generally doesn't produce a positive ROI (at least I've not seen it to do well).  I personally opt for no-cost activities like email list creation....or low cost promotions like book giveaways.


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