# Mages, sorcerers, and wizards



## Astner (Aug 23, 2012)

The title might be ambiguous, however, what I'm wondering is whether or not you -- in your setting -- distinguish between these classes, or other magic-related classes, in terms of practice and study. In other words, what separates a mage from a sorcerer and the sorcerer from the wizard?


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## Telcontar (Aug 23, 2012)

I have distinctions in one of my planned books, as well as TWIXT HEAVEN AND HELL which is already published. In TWIXT the difference is really just semantics. Magic-users on one side are called wizards and on the other side are called sorcerers, but they're pretty much the same.

In the planned work, mages are people with inborn magical talent. They use magic intuitively and naturally. Wizards are people who've studied magic and learned to use it through discrete spells. Finally, sorcerers are people who've been granted otherworldy powers by some extradimensional beings (usually angels or demons).


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## FireBird (Aug 23, 2012)

Well in my WIP they are all one in the same. However in many stories they are all different things. To me a wizard implies many years of practice and study before mastery of anything. Mage is the most basic term referring to anyone who uses magic. Sorcerer has a more malicious ring to it. I start to think they get their powers from "elsewhere." If you say someone is a sorcerer or sorceress I start to think they are more evil than good. This is just what I think from my experience with the terms. Everyone interprets them differently.


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## Benjamin Clayborne (Aug 23, 2012)

In my novel THE QUEEN OF MAGES, the only term used for actual magic-users is "mage". It's not even used until more than halfway through the book (because the book is about the beginning of magic in the world, and they don't have a word for "someone who actually has magic powers"). It's distinct from "magician," which is someone who does tricks to amuse audiences, and from "witch," which is a name for creepy old women who live in the woods and have reputations for doing weird things under moonlight. (They have no actual powers either.)


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## Sheilawisz (Aug 23, 2012)

In my first Fantasy series I call my mages _Magas_, which is a Castilian language word that means precisely female mages. I did not want to call them brujas (witches) or hechiceras (sorceresses) because I feel that Magas is a word more connected to Magic and power, but that's just my personal preference for a particular word over the others.


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## Zander (Aug 24, 2012)

I think in a more archaic sense a sorcerer was someone who 'trafficked' with devils and demons and spirits and what not. I think its listed in the bible With/as synonymus with witchcraft, the most notable example of which is probably the conjury of the prophet samual to speak with king saul. I'm not sure, and contemporary usage pretty much sets it up as the same as wizard.
Wikipedia Says Zoroaster Was seen as the founder of the magi tribe by the Greeks, and that some scholars think that Because he was seen as the inventor of magic and astrology, The tribe came to be associated with 'trickery and conjurors', which led to the current vocab.
I agree with Telcontar that 'wizard' is best used to refer to people who have studied magic in more depth. It makes you think of characters like Gandalf and characters more powerful than average in a story. (even in the wizard of oz, though if I recall correctly he actually did stuff all).

So maybe one could consider 'sorcerer' as being to do with the summoning, control and communion with spirits; Mage as being with lesser magic users and wizard as being with the most powerful/learned?


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## Feo Takahari (Aug 24, 2012)

I'm just going to leave this here.


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## ThinkerX (Aug 24, 2012)

There was a time when I paid considerable heed to such magical divisions - back when I let first D&D and then Warhammer influence me over much.

Anymore, though, I use the terms pretty much interchangebly, with just a few exceptions:

1) A 'magician' or 'goetic' is somebody who is regarded as being at least part fraud by others - street corner illusionists, dealers in potions, that sort of thing.

2) A 'Godborn' or 'Child of God' was born during the 'Night of Power' or "God Night' on the spring equinox.  They are universally regarded as powerful healers and workers of protective magic, and have a distinctive phyical appearance (bronze skin and gold hair).  They are seen as optimistic and incapable of killing.  To refer to a Godborn as a 'mage' or 'sorcerer' can be regarded as insulting.

3) 'Darkborn' or "Demon Spawn' are born during 'Devil Day' or 'Doom Day' which is the fall equinox. They are the polar opposites of Godborn, experts at demonic conjuring, necromancy, and curse magic.  Almost all healing magic is beyond them.  Like Godborn, they have a distinctive universa physical appearance (corpse pale skin and jet black hair).  They are often termed 'witches' or 'warlocks'.

Regular mages will sometimes call themselves 'philosophers' or 'sages', but don't object much to being termed wizards, mages, and sorcerers.  Apart from the above, about the only distinction they'll make is with wizards who conjure creatures from elsewhere, whom they term 'Summoners', 'Warlocks', or 'Conjurors'. Summoning such creatures is seen as very unwise and is usually forbidden - for excellent reason.


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## Astner (Aug 24, 2012)

To me the wizard is more a character who's shrouded in mystery, whereas the mage is very keen on explaining how magic works. As the word magic is based on the anarchic form of mage, it makes the word mage feel a lot more general and encompassing. 

To put it short, the wizard knows whereas the mage understands. The wizard memorizes formulas whereas the mage deduces them.


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## Chime85 (Aug 24, 2012)

In my setting, there are no different "classes" of magic wielders, so to speak. By all means, there are some variations here and there on how exactly magic is practiced, but on the whole they consider themselves on par.

The people who _can_ use magic in my setting, do not have a name for themselves. To them, it's like giving left handed people a different name from right handed people. At most, they refer to themselves as magic users.

The public however, call them a Witch, or Witches (plural). I picked this name from all the different names and titles from history and lore, because when the word is said, it counjours (ha!) up imagines of persecution, nasty deeds and hard pressed laws. It also brings to mind the many misconceptions people in history had about any form of magic that could often be explained as science.


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## ShortHair (Aug 24, 2012)

The main thing is that you understand the distinctions between the terms you use. More importantly, you have to communicate that information to the reader.

If you want to do some research, you can find all kinds of names and definitions going back to the dawn of time. Most likely, you'll wind up more confused than when you started.


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## Anders Ã„mting (Aug 24, 2012)

There actually isn't any very good word for "sorceror" in my native language, and "mage" and "magician" is pretty much the same word.

I suppose, I'd consider "magician" to be a magic user in a general sense whereas "wizard" is a more of an occupation.

Fun fact: "Wizard" in my language is _trollkarl_ - literally "troll man."


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## Astner (Aug 24, 2012)

Actually, _hÃ¤xmÃ¤stare_ is a translation I've come across a lot for sorcerer. The literal translation for which would be hex-/witch master.


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## Saigonnus (Aug 24, 2012)

I tend to shy away from using any of those terms to describe magic-users... So what, they have these abilities... what if they are so common that there is nothing special about them? It comes down to circumstances for me. Among one of the cultures in my NIP most have some sort of "magical" talent, so there isn't an "awe factor" to them at all. Warriors have a bit of power that aids them in combat, like slowing an enemy's movements, and druids are far more capable and able to do nearly anything their imagination can create; though of course they have to have the ability to harness the appropriate type and amount of a given energy.  

Another culture lost the ability to do magic so long ago that they don't even remember being able to use it, so magic for all intents and purposes is nonexistant since they are fairly insolar (at least the place the story is set in). They do occasionally have dealings with other peoples so magic is not unheard of, but it's like an herbalist or chemist; just a skill... without the whole bad wizard stigma.  

A third culture is strictly regimented, everyone has their place in society and I use the term "transmuters" generally, since they take raw energy (they cannot differentiate the different types) and transmute it into something usable for spells. Spells are generally crude and serve a purpose within the societal structure.


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## ThinkerX (Aug 24, 2012)

> Fun fact: "Wizard" in my language is trollkarl - literally "troll man."



LOL:

I have a vaguely scandinavian / slavic region where there are people called 'troll-born'.  A bit taller and stronger than the norm, but also fairly ugly.  An unusually large number (for my world) practice magic, and those outside that immediate region tend to think of the whole lot of them as being magicians.  

Sound about right?


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## Astner (Aug 24, 2012)

The reason why I use terms like mage, sorcerer, and wizard is due to the fact that these are relatable elements. If I were to call a mage a kadack just for the sake of being original then it might get lost among the other classes, races, and titles, making it difficult for the casual reader -- who doesn't memorize each made-up word on the spot -- to keep up with the more important aspects of the story. The word mage will be recognized and identified immediately, and while the reader might not be aware of the details of a mage he knows general outlining; _it's a character who can use magic._

I further think it's unnecessary to use classes just to create the illusion of an expansive setting. The setting is there to tell a story, not the other way around. That's why I'm against in-between classes.



ThinkerX said:


> LOL:
> 
> I have a vaguely scandinavian / slavic region where there are people called 'troll-born'.  A bit taller and stronger than the norm, but also fairly ugly.  An unusually large number (for my world) practice magic, and those outside that immediate region tend to think of the whole lot of them as being magicians.
> 
> Sound about right?


Actually, _trolleri_ is roughly translated to magic -- _magi_ being the more general translation -- and it's much to a troll like wizardry is to a wizard. So _trolleri_ would be the supernatural workings of trolls, further only thought of as magic. However, a _trollkarl_ has rarely anything to do with the trolls in terms of appearance and whatnot. Though I do like your idea. Primarily because the handsome and intellectual mage has become somewhat of a clichÃ©.


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## Shockley (Aug 24, 2012)

They're not something I've covered in my stories, to be honest. The only organized group of magicians would be the 'Seers of the Most Sacred Tower of Manzriah,' who use non-effectual ritual magic. 

Any other figure is given the term that sounds most effective.


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## Anders Ã„mting (Aug 25, 2012)

Astner said:


> Actually, _hÃ¤xmÃ¤stare_ is a translation I've come across a lot for sorcerer. The literal translation for which would be hex-/witch master.



Meh. *wiggles fingers* 

"HÃ¤xmÃ¤stare" is one of those terms we use when we need something to translate sorcerer into, and it just has to kinda mean the same thing. I wouldn't really call it a good equivalent. Actually, I think it's closer to warlock, if anything.

When we translated the Belgariad by David Eddings, sorcerer ended up as "besvÃ¤rjare," which is another word that means kinda but not really the same thing. The actual English word for that would be "invoker", I think.


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## ThinkerX (Aug 25, 2012)

> Actually, trolleri is roughly translated to magic -- magi being the more general translation -- and it's much to a troll like wizardry is to a wizard. So trolleri would be the supernatural workings of trolls, further only thought of as magic. However, a trollkarl has rarely anything to do with the trolls in terms of appearance and whatnot. Though I do like your idea. Primarily because the handsome and intellectual mage has become somewhat of a clichÃ©.



I actually saw them as...human mutants...of a sort, as a result of living for many generations in close proxemity to a 'magical monolith', which I term 'The Black Stone'.  The overwhelming majority of them are simply much uglier and stronger than normal (and occasionally mentally imbalanced).  But more than would be expected are born with a bit of magical ability, and the site has developed a reputation as a place where others can go to learn magic.  

As to 'troll-born' - I swiped that name, with what claimed to be an explanation for it, out of an old D&D book, which described them as humans with trollish ancestry (and 'troll' being a word which could apply to a number of quasi-supernatural creatures, apparently including dwarves and elves).


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## Astner (Aug 25, 2012)

Anders Ã„mting said:


> Meh. *wiggles fingers*
> 
> "HÃ¤xmÃ¤stare" is one of those terms we use when we need something to translate sorcerer into, and it just has to kinda mean the same thing. I wouldn't really call it a good equivalent. Actually, I think it's closer to warlock, if anything.
> 
> When we translated the Belgariad by David Eddings, sorcerer ended up as "besvÃ¤rjare," which is another word that means kinda but not really the same thing. The actual English word for that would be "invoker", I think.


You're not going to get one-to-one translations out of sorcerers, wizards, and so forth. The only term that can be considered unambiguous in terms of translation magician to _magiker_. I wouldn't be surprised if I saw the translation of enchantress or sorceress to _hÃ¤xa_ (witch).


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## ahhhitswells (Aug 28, 2012)

You can use classes... but what's the point? Create your own!!!!

Try names that have real world meanings:
Mercenaries (all mercenaries know magik in your world)
Drafters
Natives

Or make up your own!
Enclosers
Illiwards
MooPooFaces


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