# How much world building do you do before writing?



## Consultant_Timelord (Jun 9, 2018)

Hi, just wondering how much world building you all do before you start writing the story.


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## Yora (Jun 9, 2018)

Well, that's a difficult question to answer unless you have written a couple of books set in different worlds.

I have been working on fantasy settings for games for probably 10 years before I really started with preparations to write stories. This left me with a huge collections of ideas that I worked out at different levels of detail for various different worlds. When I know sit down to start a new setting, I am not starting with nothing. I already have a huge box of elements in different versions that I find interesting and compelling and that fit into the types of settings I find the most enjoyable.
Saying that I started from scratch last winter would be just as wrong as saying that I have been working on the setting 10 years now. But those experiences gave me skills and knowledge that now enable me to whip up a new setting very quickly.

That being said, even though I have this huge collection of setting elements that I can immediately put into a setting, my actual notes for places, people, creatures, magic, and phenomenons are pretty short. My mental map of the world only consists of big blury blobs with no borders, rivers, or marked settlements. There are six general environments and I have a rough idea of their scale and arrangement. From the mediterranean forest to the temperate forest one has to cross the mountains or take a ship around them over the sea to the west. That's as detailed as I have it, becuase I think that's as much detail as I will ever need in the stories.

I have established that there is no afterlife and that supernatural creatures simply live in the remote wilderness instead of another world. And where they live the environment is much more magical than in the places where people have settled. I know that magic can only be used for divination, telepathy, and summoning spirits, but there's also plenty of alchemical brews that are somewhat bordering to magical. There are six main cultural groups for which I have a good idea how they look and their settlements and culture look like, but no specific details. A few ideas for cities and their rulers and general character, and general concepts for six magical traditions, and that's basically it.
However, even though I have very few fixed details on the world and the things in it, my past work for games has made me become very familiar with how I want the elements to tick and feel like. Were I to type out a world bible, it would have very few entries with only short general notes for them. But I also think that I know the world as a whole aready very well


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## Laurence (Jun 9, 2018)

For my current WIP I wrote a general history covering how each of my 3 main kingdoms were formed. I also outlined each of their cultures, quirks in their language (while still essentially being English) and created a handful of creatures and objects that may come up. 

I also created a map. This and all of the above required at least a hundred hours of research (things you wouldn’t necessarily think of until you come to it such as where deserts typically form).

I actually burnt out after doing just about what I felt necessary and have just finished plotting out the story again after dropping writing for a year. So perhaps don’t go in as hard as I did!


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## Orc Knight (Jun 9, 2018)

My world's change and evolve along with the stories, so the writing and world building seems to by a symbiotic building version for me. As one thing goes, so goes another. Things change, so that's how it goes. Which can mean a lot changes at times.


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## Yora (Jun 9, 2018)

What I try is to set down the ground rules by which the world works. The specific details then will be created as I go, according to those rules.


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## A. E. Lowan (Jun 9, 2018)

We've been working on the world building for _The Books of Binding_ for about fifteen years, and the first book, _Faerie Rising_, was published last April, so I'd say a fair bit. But it was worth it. It took seven years to write _Faerie Rising_, but the Second Book of Binding, _Ties of Blood and Bone_, is writing much faster because of the groundwork that's been laid. That being said, world building continues all the time as we fill in the corners, as it were. Would I take this sort of time for another project? Probably not. Fifteen years is a bit excessive. But on the other hand, we got a great urban fantasy world out of it.


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## Laurence (Jun 9, 2018)

A. E. Lowan said:


> We've been working on the world building for _The Books of Binding_ for about fifteen years, and the first book, _Faerie Rising_, was published last April, so I'd say a fair bit. But it was worth it. It took seven years to write _Faerie Rising_, but the Second Book of Binding, _Ties of Blood and Bone_, is writing much faster because of the groundwork that's been laid. That being said, world building continues all the time as we fill in the corners, as it were. Would I take this sort of time for another project? Probably not. Fifteen years is a bit excessive. But on the other hand, we got a great urban fantasy world out of it.


Im curious, how did this come about? Did you ever actually plan on writing the books? Was this 10 minutes of worldbuilding a week for most of this duratiom or solid hours?


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## ThinkerX (Jun 10, 2018)

My remaining principle worlds began as AD&D game settings.  I spent years creating maps, generating characters, and composing histories.  I probably created ten or twelve 'worlds' before realizing that planets are *big.'  So, bit by bit, I condensed those settings down to two, bound by geography.  All this had a huge negative effect on my stories: not only did they depend heavily on AD&D game mechanics, but I rarely finished any of them (though there are two or three on the current rewrite list).

After doing all that, though, my interest in gaming faded, and with it my interest in writing.  I wrote very short tales on rare occasions.  Then, seven years ago, I sat down to write what was supposed to be a short ten or twenty page story set in a massive labyrinth.  I dug up a bunch of my old notes and maps.  Assigned locations, names, and cultures.  The tale grew.  Two months after beginning it, it finished out at 44,000 words.  A year or two after that, I came here.

At this site, I focused on writing, not worldbuilding.  I participated in multiple Challenges, writing stories that both fulfilled the prompts and developed my principle world a bit more.  Instead of drab histories and descriptions, I wrote a story that incorporated an overview of much of the main world, with historical anecdotes by the participating characters.  Along the way I learned that no matter how much worldbuilding you did at the start, it's  never enough - there are always details that need developing.  I still have the old notes and maps - even added to them - but large sections sit unused. 

Over the past couple of years, in what passes for spare time, I have been tinkering with a new setting: earth after a 'soft intermediate future Lovecraftian apocalypse.'  What I have here are a few pages of notes and five or six short stories written to explore various concepts.  I attempted a longer (novella length) tale in this setting during the November NaNo, but inadequate worldbuilding and real world issues crashed that project.  I rethought key elements and finally finished it during the April NaNo.


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## A. E. Lowan (Jun 10, 2018)

Laurence said:


> Im curious, how did this come about? Did you ever actually plan on writing the books? Was this 10 minutes of worldbuilding a week for most of this duratiom or solid hours?


It was solid hours and a lot of writing (like, binders full of drafts), and the vision of the series changed a lot over time. We went from just a few books to about 20, with a second series to follow. The thing with writing a series is you have to keep your metaplot - your overarching plot - in mind as you write each book, so series writing can get a bit more involved than with stand alones.


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## ThinkerX (Jun 10, 2018)

A. E. Lowan said:


> It was solid hours and a lot of writing (like, binders full of drafts), and the vision of the series changed a lot over time. We went from just a few books to about 20, with a second series to follow. The thing with writing a series is you have to keep your metaplot - your overarching plot - in mind as you write each book, so series writing can get a bit more involved than with stand alones.


Yeah, the rule with series - and the main reason I have yet to put my tales on the net - is that the further you get into the series, the more the vision of how things work (plot, character, and worldbuilding wise) change.  Hence, not publishing book 1 until you have either a rough draft or a solid outline for the last book - or failing that, a lot of top notch worldbuilding.

Currently, I'm working on the rewrite for Book 3 in my 'Empire' series - and I still go back to books 1 and 2 to make trivial corrections and additions.  And currently, the Empire saga stands at six volumes, all with at least a passable rough draft, with a seventh likely - though that one takes place on an altogether different planet, so I might escape the brunt of past errors.


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## Tom (Jun 10, 2018)

I start writing and worldbuild later. Most of the time, I sit down to write a new project with a "spark" in mind--the basic premise of the story, sometimes not even that, maybe just the flash of a character or a snippet of dialogue. As the story moves along I expand its world, creating its rules and features as I go. Once I have that basis, I can start worldbuilding in earnest.


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## Miles Lacey (Jun 14, 2018)

For me the world building never stops even as I write.  To me the world and the characters are interwoven so I find it almost impossible to separate the two.  

How much do I do?  Almost certainly way too much!  I am not satisfied until I can see myself living in this world and soaking up the sights, the smells and the sounds of it.


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## Vaporo (Jun 15, 2018)

Oh, I've been world building for quite some time. Four or five years, at this point. Not really sure what this "writing" thing you're talking about is, though.


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## Skybreaker Sin K'al (Jun 25, 2018)

World build for a year or two, realize your story sucks and make a new one! Foolproof!

In all honesty, It is really important to have an immersive setting for your novel. Its what people come to your book to read (yes, I know characters are important, but they came for the setting), so you better get it right. Also, world building is one of my favorite pastimes just when I'm bored (i.e. pick up a pencil and start sketching a map).


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## CaraSwara (Jun 26, 2018)

This is a good question, I haven't really been able to get it right yet. I've been world building for 2 years or so for one project and haven't even started writing yet. I feel like if I write without having the basics of the world covered then I might make stuff up that I haven't really thought about in the same way as the lore that I've written.


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## Gurkhal (Jun 26, 2018)

I have a rough outline ready and then expands the world according to the needs of the story.


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## Miles Lacey (Jun 26, 2018)

I find that if I am struggling with world building I just scale down to bite size by focussing on the tiny part of it where the protagonist lives.  That way I can make the world seem more real and manageable.  For example, a police officer giving a mammoth rider a dressing down for not cleaning up the mammoth manure his animal has left behind, a neanderthal man explaining to his kids they can't go into a toy shop because neanderthals aren't allowed inside and the look of disappointment on their faces, the late afternoon sun reflecting off the tram tracks, an election poster with the slogan VETERAN, PATRIOT, HERO: VOTE RENAULT emblazoned across it and a colour movie poster featuring a gun-toting gangster wearing a fedora hat.  From these minor snapshots I get a feel for the type of world my protagonist (or other character) is living in, the level of technology, the type of government and address at least one unpleasant aspect of the society without being preachy about it.


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## Consultant_Timelord (Jun 27, 2018)

I feel like I don't do any world building at all. I try to but every time I end up more interest in my characters than the setting they exist in, I think that might be my downfall in why I can't finish anything, because I can only imagine my characters and nothing else...


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## Miles Lacey (Jun 27, 2018)

Consultant_Timelord said:


> I feel like I don't do any world building at all. I try to but every time I end up more interest in my characters than the setting they exist in, I think that might be my downfall in why I can't finish anything, because I can only imagine my characters and nothing else...



Describe a character you have created and what they normally wear and give a brief description of the place they call home.  In other words, their house.  Yes, there is a world-building reason for asking this question.
.


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## Consultant_Timelord (Jun 27, 2018)

Ok, I have this elf girl named Callista, she looks really young mostly because she is super short and always wears a leather jacket that is two sizes too big. Below that she wears just a simple pants - shirt - boots situation, and she also wears lots of jewellery. She is the head of a gang whose headquarters are in an elvish nightclub, so she lives in the apartment above it which is very spars since she hardly ever goes up there except to sleep.


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## Miles Lacey (Jun 27, 2018)

Consultant_Timelord said:


> Ok, I have this elf girl named Callista, she looks really young mostly because she is super short and always wears a leather jacket that is two sizes too big. Below that she wears just a simple pants - shirt - boots situation, and she also wears lots of jewellery. She is the head of a gang whose headquarters are in an elvish nightclub, so she lives in the apartment above it which is very spars since she hardly ever goes up there except to sleep.



What you have done here is classic world building without the info-dumping.  Your character, her job, her living arrangements and her wardrobe are all reflections of the world in which she lives in.  You've created a very vivid snapshot of your world and as we follow your character around and see the world as she does more of it will be revealed.  That is world-building in its most simple form.  If done well it can create a world that is as believable as that found in a game like _Skyrim.

_


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## Consultant_Timelord (Jun 27, 2018)

Ok cool, I guess I just sort of thought that you had to do a bunch of world building and be able to visualize EVERYTHING before it became sort of believable.


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## skip.knox (Jun 27, 2018)

There are many ways to go about this; you're looking not for the Right Way but for the way that works for you. You figure this out by writing actual stories all the way to completion (published, or self-published), which is why you're still casting about. One way to figure out what works is by figuring out what doesn't work.  IOW, just write a story. All the way to done. Then do it again. And again. By the third time around, you'll start to have a feel for what doesn't work for you. If you are very, very lucky, you'll have hit upon what *does* work, but that's only for the fortunate few. Keep writing stories.

I tend to work well from analogies. In case you do as well, here's one that resonates with me. There's a new world and I'm standing in it, but everything is dark. The story is my flashlight. I can shine it all around, up and down, but then I never move. Better is to start moving (i.e., telling the story). Parts of the world will show up in sharp relief--like you, characters seem to stand out most clearly with me--while others are clear but distant. Many are seen but dimly, shadowed and indistinct, and most of the world remains in darkness. That's ok. 

After all, think about how you move through the real world. There are cities, regions, whole continents, you barely know. There are entire systems of knowledge, histories, sciences, utterly opaque to you. And yet, there's the story of you, told perfectly clearly without all that. 

All best wishes with your story telling.


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## Hallen (Jun 30, 2018)

It depends on your story. If it's a secondary world story, then you probably need to do more. If it's an adaptation of our world, then you can do a bit less.
In either case, you need enough to frame the story and to not cause roadblocks when writing. For example, if you are describing the layout of your city, you best know where the slum is in relation to the keep, etc. The last thing you want is to stop writing to figure out which direction your character should be walking. You also want enough detail in your descriptions to make a place real to the reader. There is nothing worse than trying to describe street life, vegetation, agriculture, food, fashion, etc, if you don't have a good idea of what those things are or why those things are the way they are. 

To me, that's the most important part. You need to have enough done on your world so you can write without hangups. There's only so many times you can insert a note like <<figure out what kind of shoes this guy wears because he is from Country1>> in a story before you start losing context. Also, it helps you stay consistent in your writing so you don't have continuity issues.


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## Darkfantasy (Jul 15, 2018)

I am currently planning my very first fantasy novel, although I've done others like crime and psychological thrillers but none of them needed as much world-building (like planning an entire planet from scratch). So I fell for the common trap of getting sucked into endless world-building and found myself planning things is details my novel would never need. Maybe it was good for me too know this stuff - but in two years I'd done nothing but world build, and world building is my LEAST favourite part of writing.

So now I do my plot and character's first and I simply world-building the things that are needed. Like weather, religion, races, land scape. I don't mind being the writer that doesn't do cool world-building because I'd rather be know for good characters and good plots. So I world - build what I need.


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## ImaginationGoneWild (Jul 18, 2018)

I prefer to build the world(s) first and then write my story. I guess it's because I'm a bit OCD, in that I need to do tasks in a certain order and need my stuff organized. If I try to build the world on the fly as I write the story then I tend to get lost at some point and contradict myself. x-x

I do use roleplaying as a testing ground for characters and settings or even plots. It's a good way for me to find out what works an what doesn't, plus I get direct feedback from my roleplaying partner. : 3

I organize my worlds on google docs and put certain subjects in categories like; Cosmology, Technology, Religions, Magicks, Races, etc....


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## Skybreaker Sin K'al (Jul 19, 2018)

ImaginationGoneWild said:


> I prefer to build the world(s) first and then write my story.
> 
> I organize my worlds on google docs and put certain subjects in categories like; Cosmology, Technology, Religions, Magicks, Races, etc....



Me too! I don't use google docs though (I usually use a folder and/or sketchbook). I like to give my world a history before I even start working on the present setting. For example, I'm working on a 12th century empire called Movin, who left the great west their horses. This all takes place around 700 years before my story begins. Before this, 3000 years before the story, the first cities are built out of ditches in the sand. In fact, I often enjoy setting more than my characters. That's something I (might) have to change, probably.


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## Berniece McKee (May 31, 2021)

Thank you for sharing your experience. After all, I'm just thinking about writing my book. I already have some work, but it’s still a lot of work!


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## Eztlirald Clarinda (May 31, 2021)

I think it depends on what pieces are important and impact the story as a whole. For example, geographics and government impact the story but writing out the history of a particular kingdom may not be important to the plot or story. If that’s the case, then you wouldn’t necessarily have to world build there. Does any of what I just said make sense to you guys?


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## Insolent Lad (Jun 1, 2021)

Yesterday, I had to sit down and work out a six thousand year timeline for lactose intolerance and the use of dairy products in my primary fantasy world. Important to the stories? I'm not sure but it makes the world richer and it ties into other genetics, so I felt it was useful.

And I feel comfortable allowing yogurt to show up in meals in certain time and places now.


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## Eztlirald Clarinda (Jun 1, 2021)

Insolent Lad said:


> Yesterday, I had to sit down and work out a six thousand year timeline for lactose intolerance and the use of dairy products in my primary fantasy world. Important to the stories? I'm not sure but it makes the world richer and it ties into other genetics, so I felt it was useful.
> 
> And I feel comfortable allowing yogurt to show up in meals in certain time and places now.


The extra world building does make things richer. But I was talking about more of the necessary work that’s needed to write. You can always add more than needed and continue to build as you write the story.
Btw, that’s quits the task you took on there...


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## Saigonnus (Jun 1, 2021)

In my case, I love world-building for the sake of world-building, though I have finished a few short stories in the various worlds I have created. When I am doing specific work for a project, I just do the close-in stuff (what the character sees looking around), and expand that as I need to. In cities for example, I will create landmarks. The Spire of Dyspar... or Mehlvor's Park, or the Street of Candles... or the Harbor District... etc, and keep track of where things are in relation to those landmarks. 

I also figure out the broad-stroke stuff like trade/economy, architecture, wardrobe (which usually depends on climate), religions and system of government.


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## D. Gray Warrior (Jun 2, 2021)

I do enough to help me get a general idea of what the setting is like. I prefer to start with a theme or concept: Medieval Europe, Bronze Age, Steampunk, Wuxia, etc. to use as a starting point.

I try to figure out what the main factions will be and what they are fighting over, and work on the magic system.

Magic is a major part of many fantasy works, thus it is usually one of the first things I work on. I might not lay down every rule and restriction, or exactly how it can be used, but I work out enough to get a general idea of what it does and how it works.

After that, I usually start writing, but still write down any worldbuilding ideas I get while writing.

I used to have a rich and fleshed out world, but scrapped it since it lost its mystique, and the worldbuilding was just really an excuse to keep myself from actually beginning to write the story.


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## Chasejxyz (Jun 2, 2021)

Eztlirald Clarinda said:


> I think it depends on what pieces are important and impact the story as a whole. For example, geographics and government impact the story but writing out the history of a particular kingdom may not be important to the plot or story. If that’s the case, then you wouldn’t necessarily have to world build there. Does any of what I just said make sense to you guys?



It's hard to know what, exactly, is important/impactful to your story before you start actually writing. I built out a LOT of stuff before I wrote my manuscript and there was still things I realized I needed. This includes colors for city guards, names of various things on the map, finer details of religious stuff, and, most importantly, what different groups believe about a certain event. Like _I_ know why the kaiju showed up and caused problems, but that doesn't mean anyone else knows that. You can't think of everything before writing, and if you do, you'll never get to writing, you'll just world build forever. 

You have to look at your plot/characters/themes you put together in the planning stages and make some deductions as to what you'll _need_ before you start. It's okay to make stuff up as you go along! Editing will make it all feel consistent.


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