# Quasi-scientific magic?



## Jabrosky (Jul 25, 2012)

As a scientifically minded disbeliever in anything supernatural, I don't usually like magic in my fantasy worlds, but lately I have entertained the idea of a magic system that had a quasi-scientific foundation. This magic would stem not from gods or other mystical forces, but would come from within people, and it would have certain physical limits such as energy costs. Let me explain:

All people possess a region in their brains that allows them to mentally manipulate the laws of physics---in other words, to do magic. This area's initial size varies across individuals, therefore predisposing some to greater magical proficiency than others, but it can expand in anyone with enough training and practice. However, magic costs a lot of energy to use, with the exact amount increasing with spell power; the most devastating or wide-ranging spells can knock out or even kill their casters. As a consequence, magicians must eat frequently to resupply the energy they need for spellcasting.

One thing I wonder is increased magical proficiency could have negative effects on people's other cognitive functions. If their "magic lobe" grew in size, would that crowd out other areas of the brain?


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## Addison (Jul 25, 2012)

This is a very interesting idea Jobrosky. I think it depends on where this region is. Does the placement of those lobe vary between people? If so take a look at functions connected to that part of the brain. Perhaps if the lobe gets too big in one spot then the caster will become paralyzed on the right side of his or her body. Amnesia. Who knows. Either way this is a very interesting idea that shows great potential and you've obviously put a lot of thought into. One idea is to start writing and see if these answers come naturally. Another is to try a flash back to see how this all was discovered.


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## Jabrosky (Jul 25, 2012)

Addison said:


> I think it depends on where this region is. Does the placement of those lobe vary between people?


Probably not. It's probably near the frontal lobe in all people.


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## Zero Angel (Jul 25, 2012)

There are a lot of ways to handle types of magic that can be accepted by "science" -- or at least the science that exists in your worlds. It all just depends on how you define your world's physics. By allowing telepathy/telekinetics or tele-whatever-your-spells-are, then it might open the door to other types of magicks as well. The main thing to remember is to stay consistent within your own physics and reality. 

I would venture a guess to say that most magick systems deal with the "cost" of magick in terms of energy and life-force from the caster. It is the rare system where magick is independent from the creatures casting it, although that might be interesting in and of itself as well.


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## Addison (Jul 25, 2012)

Consistency is key no matter if it's science-fiction, fantasy or something inbetween like yours. The frontal lobe is responsible for critical thinking, comprehension and....language I think.


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## ThinkerX (Jul 25, 2012)

After more back and forth down through the decades than I care to remember, I settled on something similiar.

Over the past 100 - 150 years, there have been multiple attempts, some by bright, credentialed people (even groups of people) attempting to objectively investigate this or that claim of paranormal ability.  They investigated claims of ESP, Telekinesis, Clairvoyance, and quite a bit more. Once in a while, they'd come across a person who seemed to be ...unusually adept... at such feats.  

So, in my stories, I basically looked at this past research and decided 'OK - there seems to be a bit of real world support for this, this and this.  Doesn't mean it's true, or capable of what I want it to do even if it was - but it is at least somewhat credible.'

The other thing I did involved taking a peak at what people in the ancient world regarded their magicians as capable of, and then try to merge that with the 'modern' research. 

Something a bit more problematic: One thing the ancient wizards were very big on was finding a 'spirit' - be it a ghost, a petty god, or a demon.  Once the wizard knew said spirit's name, he or she could command said spirit to do some pretty impressive things.  (This is all through the bible, by the way - usually with harsh penalties attached. It is also where stories of genies come from, but we be getting into another can of worms here).  I thought about this, considered the nature of my world, and decided, for story purposes it would work - but the kicker is the 'spirit' in question would quite possibly be of the Lovecraftian variety. (Think truly *ALIEN* science, based at least in part on principles and concepts usually ignored or dismissed in the present age)


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## Zero Angel (Jul 25, 2012)

That's an interesting way to treat your magick, ThinkerX.

In my multiverse, I try to explain ALL of the world's legends and magicks with my physics, but I don't really throw anything out. I have aliens, but I also have spirits. In fact, I have an entire system for forming a contract with a being of magick which can be extended and twisted as I need it to fit all sorts of different relationships between different beings.

The main way I did this, was whenever I saw something that was similar between legends, I assumed they were related in some tangible way. 

For instance, OK so every race has dragons, then dragons must have existed, but they are all different forms, so there are different races of dragons that adapted to their environments in different ways. Some of these may not be "true" dragons, but something that mimicked the race, or a cousin to the creatures that would become dragons, etc.


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## ThinkerX (Jul 25, 2012)

When you start taking a closer look at just how our current technology came about, you see that quite a bit of it wasn't the best option - we merely ended up with it because some person or group pushed real hard to MAKE the current version happen.  One example is jet airliners:  we have them today because a guy back in the 1950's really pushed for them.  Had he not done so...jets would probably be exclusively  military vehicles even now.  There are also quite a a few legit scientific principles and concepts that have become sidelined over the past hundred years or so.  To get some ideas here, take a walk through the 'science kit' section of a hobby shop some time.  The principles are known and accepted, just not used commercially.


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## mbartelsm (Jul 25, 2012)

I do not suggest you expand it, people can't create neurons after they are born, that's a hard medical fact. What you can do is increase the number of active neurons at a time, let me explain:
When you are born you already have a set number of neurons which do not vary greatly from person to person, when a kid turns two years old all the neurons which do not have active synapses to other neurons are "disconnected" and lost. The same process happens at puberty. That's why kids who have been greatly stimulated in their early years tend to be smarter. As far as I know, these neurons can be reconnected with regular mental activities and training, this could be a way to stimulate the neurons which your magic casters have lost trough their life. In very specific cases (this is an idea, not a medical fact) the areas of the brain could expand to other areas not used, this could present trouble for the person as their overall mental capacity for all other things that are not magic is reduced.

Those are my $0.02


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## Steerpike (Jul 25, 2012)

mbartelsm said:


> I do not suggest you expand it, people can't create neurons after they are born, that's a hard medical fact.



I don't think that's absolutely true. Adult neurogenesis has been shown in at least the hippocampus, I think. There have been attempts to find it in other areas, but so far as I know the results haven't been conclusive.


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## psychotick (Jul 26, 2012)

Hi,

As women keep telling me (he says sobbing quietly) it's not the size that matters. It's the number of neural connections,which are essentially increased by using the various parts of the brain. In essence those who think a lot about language and languages are better at them than those who don't etc.

I can't see if this is your model of how your magic system works, how anyone could die from casting too powerful a spell. They might faint though. Might even get a headache, much the same as you would from concentrating too hard for too long on the cryptic crossword.

Cheers, Greg.


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## Zero Angel (Jul 26, 2012)

Lots of different stories out there with people that have "mental" magicks that die or cause great harm to themselves. Symptoms include nose bleeds, headaches, fainting, seizures, comas, aneurysms, hemorrhages, etc.

Plus, if you have magick, you could theoretically use magick to forge new neural connections, thus causing neurogenesis in spite of current "facts" to the contrary.


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## ascanius (Jul 26, 2012)

Jabrosky said:


> All people possess a region in their brains that allows them to mentally manipulate the laws of physics---in other words, to do magic. This area's initial size varies across individuals, therefore predisposing some to greater magical proficiency than others, but it can expand in anyone with enough training and practice. However, magic costs a lot of energy to use, with the exact amount increasing with spell power; the most devastating or wide-ranging spells can knock out or even kill their casters. As a consequence, magicians must eat frequently to resupply the energy they need for spellcasting.
> 
> One thing I wonder is increased magical proficiency could have negative effects on people's other cognitive functions. If their "magic lobe" grew in size, would that crowd out other areas of the brain?



the simple answer is yes if the brain grows in size.  It sounds like magic use causes tumors. The brain doesn't grow because someone uses it, it's simply codded to grow that way and size.  If the "magic lobe" grew in size it's gonna put pressure on other parts of the brain causing headaches for one.  Depending on the location it could cause strokes, ataxia, paralysis, and a whole slue of other stuff.  The brain is an enclosed organ with limited space.  I would suggest not having it grow unless your going for side effects.


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## Rullenzar (Jul 26, 2012)

As a child I was wild for a show. I just had to watch it whenever it was on. That show was called Dragon Ball Z and the reason I bring this up is because your idea reminds me of how they worked their abilities. The main characters were Goku/Vegeta and their power came from what they referred to as Chi. It was an energy that came from within and could be harnessed through yourself into energy balls and great feats of power. This Chi could be increased through training to make the person stronger, faster, more durable in battle and even learn new techniques that may have been unreachable at weaker stages of chi. 

This chi could also rise and fall in power depending on the upkeep by the user. By this I mean were they training regularly or did they fall off the wagon and do nothing for a long time. This chi is connected to the mind, body and soul and needs regular training in all elements to keep it sharp.

As a child I liked how flashy it was and watching my favorite characters grow more powerful and fight stronger foes but only years down the road did I realize ya it's a kids show but the system they had was really quite intricate if picked apart. Room even for more to be added.

So, if done right I think you would have a pretty good book on your hands.


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## JCFarnham (Jul 26, 2012)

Some one said something about a magic that was disconnected from its casters? Look no further than the artefact magic used in my NIP. Don't forget, of course there are limits.

The scientific bend to your magic sounds good. I won't be picking holes in it. It'll need to be held up to the same scrutiny as every other magic system of course, that goes with out saying you know? You've got a good start. Things like how neurons work are things you'll need to get right if you're serious about going the scientific route, so I envisage plenty of research 

But above all...

Does it make the story?


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