# Kings



## Fyle (Nov 27, 2014)

This has no doubt come up here in the past... but I could not find it glancing back at older posts...

I have in my fleshed out chapters for example "King Henry the sixth"

Is it acceptable to just write "King Henry VI" in character dialogue and narration?

Is this done often? 

I have read ASOIAF and LoTR, but I can't recall any examples of this off hand. I have also googled it and advice on "how to write" it comes up, but as far as answers to the question of whether this takes the reader out of the story, or feels a certain way stylistically I could not find...

thanks all....


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## ThinkerX (Nov 27, 2014)

I would say it depends on the situation.  Courtiers talking behind the kings back might use a nickname.  A favored acquaintance of the king in a private setting might use just his first name.  More formal situation, address by title.  One my NaNoWriMo chapters deals with a Emperor and the people he meets.


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## cupiscent (Nov 27, 2014)

Probably depends on how formal the discussion is. Probably usually it's just "his majesty" when referring to him, but more official statements of royal intent would give the title and name. It's mostly only in studying history where you need to distinguish between many kings that you need to use titles and numbers a lot.

I believe Neal Stephenson made use in the Baroque Cycle of courtiers referring to Louis whichever-it-was (14th?) as just "le Roi" - the King. There is only one. He is the centre of the universe. Who else would we be talking about?

You might also like to consider Wikipedia's advice on manner of address to monarchs or even advice on greeting the British royal family. In the latter case, most polite references in conversation not directly involving Lizzie would be "her majesty" or less formally, "the Queen".


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## skip.knox (Nov 28, 2014)

Not in dialog. Nobody is going to use Roman numerals in conversation. Otherwise, advice as per the other posts.


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## wordwalker (Nov 28, 2014)

Actually, I think that even in dialog, trusting the reader to convert "XIV" into "the Fourteenth" is a serious stretch-- but *not* doing it is worse. Readers still know it's the convention, and refusing to use the numbers looks like you're pandering.

So it really _is_ better to embrace all the times someone would say "the king," "Arthur," or "in the king's father's day." With those covered, if anything's left it might be narrative or scholarly moments where the code seems more natural anyway.

(And sure, if you give an unlettered laborer a reason to talk about "the statue of Charles the Second," spelling out the words does capture how awkward the concept is in his mouth. Contrast works too.)

--But it's so much easier with some slavic and nordic realms, where kings were recorded as "the Bold," "the Pious," or even "the Bearded" rather than numbers.


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## spectre (Nov 28, 2014)

Whenever I've been writing about titles, I have tried to introduce more story to the character than just his/her place on the throne or what have you. Develop nicknames for your King, Bloody Mary for instance (French queen who decapitated and persecuted French protestants ---or was it catholics? I dunno...). So for instance in one sentence I might say King Henry the 6th, then King Henry, then the King, then His Majesty, I might wind up referring to him as the humble ruler or ironfist, and so on.


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## Ireth (Nov 28, 2014)

avm31982 said:


> Develop nicknames for your King, Bloody Mary for instance (French queen who decapitated and persecuted French protestants ---or was it catholics? I dunno...).



Yes, Bloody Mary was Catholic, and prosecuted Protestants. Also, she was Scottish. Dunno if she had any French blood.


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## Fyle (Nov 29, 2014)

wordwalker said:


> Actually, I think that even in dialog, trusting the reader to convert "XIV" into "the Fourteenth" is a serious stretch-- but *not* doing it is worse. Readers still know it's the convention, and refusing to use the numbers looks like you're pandering.
> 
> So it really _is_ better to embrace all the times someone would say "the king," "Arthur," or "in the king's father's day." With those covered, if anything's left it might be narrative or scholarly moments where the code seems more natural anyway.
> 
> ...



I have nicknames, too yes. 

I was wondering if when people see VII if their mind will read and think seven... 

I personally like to read the seventh written out... like King Alex the seventh rather than King Alex VII


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## thedarknessrising (Nov 30, 2014)

Ireth said:


> Yes, Bloody Mary was Catholic, and prosecuted Protestants. Also, she was Scottish. Dunno if she had any French blood.



She had a lot of Protestant blood though.


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## Mythopoet (Nov 30, 2014)

Ireth said:


> Yes, Bloody Mary was Catholic, and prosecuted Protestants. Also, she was Scottish. Dunno if she had any French blood.



She was half Spanish. Her mother was Catherine of Aragon.


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## Butterfly (Nov 30, 2014)

I think... someone's combined Mary Stuart (Queen of Scots) who had French ties and was Scottish with Mary I who was nicknamed Bloody Mary and was the daughter of Catherine of Aragon.

in addition there was also Mary Tudor Queen of France.

Three queens, same name, ruled different countries... and I'm going to stop digging there because it's getting confusing.


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## Ireth (Nov 30, 2014)

Oooh, okay. I was thinking of Mary, Queen of Scots. ^^; I always thought she was called Bloody Mary.


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## Butterfly (Nov 30, 2014)

Too many Queen Marys...


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## wordwalker (Nov 30, 2014)

The more the Maryer?


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## BronzeOracle (Dec 1, 2014)

As an aussie living in the Commonwealth (thank god, as we get a nice medal tally in the Commonwealth Games, makes us feel better after the battering we get in the Olympics), when Queen Elizabeth II is talked about we just say 'The Queen'.  So the news reader will say 'The Queen visited X and Y today and gave a speech'.  It works as there is only one Queen and we are her subjects.  If its her sons, well there are three of them so they are referred to individually - eg 'Prince Charles visited X today'.


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