# King Richard III probably found!!



## Sheilawisz (Feb 3, 2013)

I am really excited by the recent news that the lost remains of King Richard III of England may have been found, finally ending a mystery that has been around since his death in battle in 1485.

You can read more about these news here =)

Well, they still have to conduct more tests just to be sure that the skeleton discovered really belongs to Richard III... and if that is confirmed, this will really make history!!

The last of the Plantagenet Monarchs, Richard III has been vilified and his reputation unjustly destroyed for centuries. He fell in combat only when he was surrounded by many traitors, having fought with great courage and skills in the Battle of Bosworth Field.

After the battle, the King's body was disrespected and then lost under mysterious circumstances. I hope that they have really found his remains at last, so he can be laid to rest in a proper manner...


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## Chilari (Feb 3, 2013)

I've been following this because it's in Leicester where I went to uni and people I know have been on the news over it, which is cool. But I think we need to be skeptical about it. The thing with archaeology is that almost nothing is ever certain. It's all probabilities. And sometimes it is al too easy to make judgements based on disparate evidence that doesn't fit together, or exaggerate the probability of something being the case because it's a desirable or tidy outcome. It's entirely possible that tomorrow's announcement will be along the lines of "we can't (quite) conclusively say it's him, but we think it is anyway".


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## Sheilawisz (Feb 3, 2013)

I trust that they can demonstrate that it's really Richard III.

This will be celebrated by admirers of the Plantagenet dynasty all over the world, and hopefully it will help as well to repair the King's damaged reputation and bring more attention to Plantagenet history in general =)

I cannot wait for the results!!


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## JadedSidhe (Feb 3, 2013)

I hadn't heard of them finding the skeleton, but I am definitely going to try to keep track of what they find out.


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## Devor (Feb 4, 2013)

According to CNN.com, DNA tests confirm that it's him.


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## Sheilawisz (Feb 4, 2013)

Yeah, it has been confirmed!! You can read the news right here: CNN: Richard III's remains officially recovered.

The King's skeleton will be reburied at Leicester Cathedral when they finish all the analyses, so finally the last of the Plantagenet Monarchs will be laid to rest with all the proper honors and respect. I never thought that this would happen one day, and now the analyses will reveal interesting information about the mysterious lost King.

I wish that they would find Edward III's daughter Joan next, but she was turned to ashes in the fire...


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## SeverinR (Feb 4, 2013)

King for 2 years and the child heirs to the throne disappeared during his reign,
sounds like in the Game of thrones, you either win or die.


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## Nihal (Feb 4, 2013)

SeverinR said:


> King for 2 years and the child heirs to the throne disappeared during his reign,
> sounds like in the Game of thrones, you either win or die.



I don't know much about Europe's history so I'm not sure... wasn't Richard's death the last event of the War of the Roses? GRRM said this war was one of his inspirations. You're right, it was their Game of Thrones.


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## Sheilawisz (Feb 4, 2013)

Well, I think that George Martin himself said that _A Song of Ice and Fire_ was inspired by the Wars of the Roses.

The Wars of the Roses was a conflict between the two rival Houses of York and Lancaster, meaning basically that the Plantagenet family weakened and destroyed itself in a dynastic war. King Richard III lost that battle only because he was betrayed by a large number of forces that he trusted, and still, the King fought skillfully and came very close to slaying the very leader of the traitors.

The Tudors tried to emulate the legendary Plantagenet Monarchs, but they were merely weak imitators and never managed to match the great warrior Kings like Richard Lionheart, Edward I and Edward III. The Tudors were also a failed dynasty with only 117 years of power, and I don't understand why so many people are fascinated by them.

By the way, I believe that the Sweating Sickness was a Plantagenet curse that fell on the Tudors because of their treason... but I don't think that many Historians would agree with me on that one =)


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## Chilari (Feb 5, 2013)

I don't think he should be reburied in Leicester Cathedral. Westminster, surely! Leicester Cathedral is the saddest excuse for a Cathedral in the country, at least until they made Wolverhampton a city at the millennium. It's just the biggest church in the city, not a proper big grand cathedral. Leicester itself was only made a city in 1929 after centuries of not being one (because it failed to pay a fee at some point in the middle ages).

I mean, as a graduate of the University of Leicester, indeed of the very department now most heavily involved in this, I'm incredibly proud of the work that's been done and everything. I think it's great that ULAS (University of Leciester Archaeological Services - the archaeology company owned by the Ancient History and Archaeology department and co-located with it). It's certainly awesome seeing people I know, people who taught me how to dig and how to research etc on the TV. And I think the whole thing is a triumph for archaeology, not necessarily because we'll learn much that we didn't know before but because it's a high profile thing that will get people interested in history and archaeology, which I think is important because an understanding of history supports an undertanding of how things got the way they are and helps in the understanding of national identity. And also means more funding for heritage sites.

I think mostly the Tudors were all bigged up because the rule of that dynasty had some important events within it - the dissolution of the monsteries and the move from a Catholic to a Protestant country was significant, and continues to have rippling effects in the form of Britain's relationships with France, Spain, Ireland and the rest of Europe over the last few centuries right up to the present day, at least with Ireland. Then there was Shakespeare, heavily studied in schools, and the context of the time he was writing in is important. But he also had a major impact on our perception of Richard III and the Tudors. Also the architecture of the Tudor period moved beyond what had gone before - gothic stone buildings and wattle and daub for everything else to a new style with lots of brick in the houses of even the modestly wealthy. And brick, unlike wattle and daub, survives in the archaeological record, so we get a boom in excavatable sites from then onwards. Finally, there's the Spanish Armarda. England at the time was a fairly insignificant island nation, with uneasy borders north to Scotland and west to Wales but the sea otherwise keeping us relatively safe from the wars tearing across Europe. With the Spanish Armarda there was this huge external threat and because of good communication in the form of beacons, and a better designed, more nimble navy, we somehow won. It was the seed of the British Empire, because we truly realised the importance of a big navy and went on to basically "rule the waves" in the following centuries, right up until WWI.

So the Tudor period was one of massive changes in the fortunes of England.


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## Sheilawisz (Feb 5, 2013)

Chilari, I agree that Westminster would be a better choice for the reburial of Richard III.

This must be a wonderful feeling for you, to watch in the news the very same people that you know personally, that you have shared experiences with... Wow, congratulations!! =)

Yes, this is perhaps the greatest success of Archeology in a very long time. Hopefully, the discovery will also help to draw more attention to History and to dispel the Tudor lies about the last Plantagenet Monarch. Who knows, maybe with time they will even make a TV series about the Plantagenets.

I know the achievements of the Tudor period, but in my opinion those were more precisely achievements of England and not so much the result of the Tudor leadership itself. The defeat of the Spanish Armada was the only real great thing of the period, but the destruction of the monasteries was, in my opinion, a crime against England's cultural legacy...

England changed a lot during Tudor times, but after all, those were the times of change for Europe in general.

Henry VIII's disastrous finances left the Kingdom's economy in a very bad shape, trying to fund his military dreams and building way too many palaces and other crazy expenses. I think of him as an insecure leader that caused more damage than good to England, far from being a true legendary King like the Plantagenets were.

Mary caused terror with those massive burnings, failed to be a true military leader and lost Calais after a short and unpopular reign, while Elizabeth had very little control over the English navy at war and also sent other people to lead the English forces in battle instead of commanding them herself.

Maybe I am judging the Tudors from a Medieval and Plantagenet point of view, but the truth is that they do not look good when compared to other more successful Royal families of Europe...

I _really_ think that they were a cursed family for a variety of reasons, starting with the appearance of the mysterious sickness right after the Battle of Bosworth Field.

Now, back to the Plantagenets... I am sure that a TV series about Edward III would be a hit!! =)


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## Jess A (Feb 5, 2013)

I saw this in the newspapers recently. It is very exciting news!


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## CupofJoe (Feb 6, 2013)

What I love about this whole event is that if you tried to pitch it as a fictional story, they say there wasn't enough jeopardy...
Person for years working out where the king might be buried... she needs some money to get started so people give it to her... She say try looking here [point to letter R on ground]... Archaeologists dig find body... test and examine body in lots of ways... find out body is that of king...
Where's the drama ?!?!
But you watch the documentary and you are drawn in to the woman's journey and how personal it is to her...
I thought it was great...


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## Sheilawisz (Feb 6, 2013)

@Jess: That's right, this is very exciting!! Sadly, it seems that only people interested in History and centuries-old mysteries are feeling excited and happy about this magnificent discovery...

@CupofJoe: I totally agree. Also, I can relate to how personal the project was for the people involved: I would do exactly the same to try and find Joan if I had enough money to fund the search and everything, but like I said before, in her case most likely it would be impossible to find any remains.

I think that a series about Edward III and his family would be excellent because it could present the start of the Hundred Years War, great battles like CrÃ©cy, Sluys and Poitiers, the ravages of the Black Death and also present other fascinating characters like Edward the Black Prince, Queen Philippa, Isabella of France, John of Gaunt and also Princess Joan!!

The series would end describing the separation of the family into the two rival Houses, and people would learn a lot about this rather dark and unknown part of English history =)


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## CupofJoe (Feb 7, 2013)

@Sheilawisz: Start doing the Lotto in your area and I'll do the same here... the first person to win $100M+ starts making the series... deal?


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## SunnyE (Feb 8, 2013)

I've always been a history/archaeology buff, so I was really excited to see the story on the news over here in America. Such an incredible find; I can't imagine what it was like for people lucky enough to be on the dig. But I thought it really sad to think that a king (or anyone for that matter) was left forgotten in such a way, with people parking their cars over him, milling about with no idea what they were walking over for all that time.


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## Chilari (Feb 8, 2013)

Well, the situation is probably that, after his death, his allies were concerned about what would happen to his body - worried that it would desecrated or left to rot. So they secretly took it and buried it in consecrated ground in Leicester and told nobody lest it be dug up again - they wanted it to be forgotten so Richard could be left to rest in peace. Over time land use changed - the Reformation will have had an impact because it was the Greyfriars church. It was back gardens for a while, and only recently became a car park, long after its original use was forgotten.


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## Jess A (Feb 8, 2013)

CupofJoe said:


> @Sheilawisz: Start doing the Lotto in your area and I'll do the same here... the first person to win $100M+ starts making the series... deal?



I'll chip in my inevitable lotto wins if you give me a starring role.


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## Chilari (Feb 8, 2013)

When I win the Euromillions I'll chip in a couple of million, but I get some influence in casting, okay?


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## CupofJoe (Mar 13, 2013)

Richard III tomb plans revealed by Leicester cathedral


> Richard III could be laid to rest under a simple slab, under plans revealed by Leicester Cathedral officials.
> The notorious king was killed in 1485 and his remains were found under a Leicester car park in September.
> The diocese wants to put what is known as a ledger stone in the chancel and said proposals for a larger monument were "disproportionate".
> A consultation will now be held, with a final design expected in October ahead of a reinterment due in May 2014.
> ...


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