# Legend of Korra, anyone?



## Aravelle

If you liked Avatar: the Last Airbender and haven't seen this, it's a MUST. 

If you have seen it, you know exactly what I'm talking about. It's darker, edgier, and overall more mature than Avatar... and not even 5 episodes in.


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## Mythos

I've watched the first two episodes, and I enjoyed them. I agree that it is far more mature than Avatar was. The only think that perplexes me is how quickly technology advanced when Zuko and Aang ruled the world.


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## Tamwen

Mythos said:


> I've watched the first two episodes, and I enjoyed them. I agree that it is far more mature than Avatar was. The only think that perplexes me is how quickly technology advanced when Zuko and Aang ruled the world.


Actually, it's parallel to our world. Aang's time was the 1850s or so. Korra's time is the 1920s. 

I love this show. Seriously, I really do. Bolin... I just wanna boop his nose. Korra's amazing; she's the kind of girl I wouldn't mind my daughter emulating. I mean, for all her flaws, she's strong and sincere and full of vim and spunk and all those other wonderful old-timey words.

Plus, Cloudbabies. Tenzin. Pema. Meelo. Just. Meelo.


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## Mindfire

The tone shift was kinda jarring actually. The Last Airbender had some serious moments, but but it had a good balance of seriousness and fun. I like the new show, and the darker tone works, but it caught me off guard a little coming out of ATLA. I think their idea behind it is that the fans that watched the original show have now "grown up" a bit, so the world should grow up with them, an interesting idea.


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## Devor

I don't know.  It does have a lot to offer, especially the character development.  But following the world-wide destruction which was threatened on Airbender, the new conflicts feel like a let down so far.  Korra starts with phenomenal power, but she's up against people who just don't seem like a real threat compared to her.  And it's led to some strange power escalations which don't make a whole lot of sense in context with the original.  But we'll see where it goes.


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## Mindfire

Devor said:


> I don't know.  It does have a lot to offer, especially the character development.  But following the world-wide destruction which was threatened on Airbender, the new conflicts feel like a let down so far.  Korra starts with phenomenal power, but she's up against people who just don't seem like a real threat compared to her.  And it's led to some strange power escalations which don't make a whole lot of sense in context with the original.  But we'll see where it goes.



I think the new show is going for a slightly smaller scale because the setting is more modern. The Last Airbender was set during the "sunset" of the "Age of Legends" and save-the-world dilemmas. Korra's world is more modern, with greater political complexities and more organized street-level threats.


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## Devor

Mindfire said:


> I think the new show is going for a slightly smaller scale because the setting is more modern. The Last Airbender was set during the "sunset" of the "Age of Legends" and save-the-world dilemmas. Korra's world is more modern, with greater political complexities and more organized street-level threats.



It's not the scale that bothers me.  Or it's only sort of.  So far Korra the Avatar feels too overpowered for these conflicts.  The world-wide scale used to justify the Avatar's power.


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## Mindfire

Devor said:


> It's not the scale that bothers me.  Or it's only sort of.  So far Korra the Avatar feels too overpowered for these conflicts.  The world-wide scale used to justify the Avatar's power.



Overpowered? Hardly. She may be powerful, she may even technically be a bending "master", but she's still a rookie. She hasn't even come CLOSE to matching the power levels Aang rose to within *one year.* Heck, the members of the gang that were benders performed feats that far outshine anything she's yet done. Zuko learned to redirect lightning. Katara defeated far more experienced benders than herself and mastered bloodbending. Toph pioneered metalbending and was able to take on the Dai Li singlehandedly- ALL OF THEM. Comapred to these, and that's not even mentioning all the stuff Aang did, I'd say Korra either has yet to reach the zenith of her power, or she's just a "weaker" Avatar. I mean, she got tossed around by pro-bending players. Any member of the gang would have wiped the floor with them in the old days.

But as far as the threat goes, I don't think it really matters, because I think that's kind of the point. Korra's powers, amazing as they may be, aren't going to avail her much against the Equalists because they're a new kind of threat. The world has changed. The White Lotus, Katara, and even Tenzin have been training Korra for the old ways, for the war that Aang fought, but Korra is fighting a different war with different rules. Despite all her power and training, she's still unprepared. It's a feeling of vulnerability that we don't usually get from the Avatar.


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## Tamwen

Have you seen the more recent ones? Episodes three and four, specifically? She's not overpowered. She may be an excellent bender, but the idea is that that's simply not enough.

Like in A:TLA, the conflict at hand conflicts with the outlook and personality of the Avatar dealing with it. Previously, Aang was a pacifist with a great respect for life who would rather talk his way through something than beat people up. Korra's just the opposite. She prefers to kick people's teeth in because that's how her brain works, and she's had very little social interaction in her life thus far. With Aang, a confrontational avenue was needed because Ozai was never going to back down. But here, with Korra, a compromise and willingness to listen is required, something that goes against the grain for Korra. 

Aang's problem was visible and obvious, while Korra's is more subtle, but just as important. This single city is full of social, cultural and political rifts that can't be beaten out. This is her issue. Tradition vs Change. Is it as explosive as a comet? No, but it's just as important and, for Korra, just as difficult.

Different Avatars, different worlds, different problems. Put Korra in Aang's shoes and Aang in Korra's shoes. A lot of the conflict in the stories isn't necessarily the Avatar's abilities in bending, but rather, the Avatar's mental and emotional ability to preform.


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## Devor

Tamwen said:


> She's not overpowered. She may be an excellent bender, but the idea is that that's simply not enough.
> 
> . . . .
> 
> Different Avatars, different worlds, different problems. Put Korra in Aang's shoes and Aang in Korra's shoes. A lot of the conflict in the stories isn't necessarily the Avatar's abilities in bending, but rather, the Avatar's mental and emotional ability to preform.



I haven't seen episode 4 yet, so I may have missed something.

I enjoy the personal conflict, and I'm enjoying the show.  But the shift has created the problem that, so far, she's dealing with conflicts for which it doesn't matter that she's the avatar.  Any bender could be doing what she's doing.  There's no connection between Avatar and plot, and so far, even the connection between avatar and the emotional story is still weak because nobody respects her yet in that role.

She might as well be a typical water bender still learning the spiritual side of water bending, and you would get virtually the same effect so far.


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## Tamwen

I disagree that any bender could do the same thing. A single bender wouldn't have the same effect that she's having. The Equalists wouldn't move their plan faster if she was just another waterbender, and her words and actions wouldn't have the same impact if she was just a Country Mouse from the Southern Water Tribe. She's the Avatar. What she does and says means something, but at the same time, people either consider her a troublemaker or someone to manipulate because she's still a child.

We're only in the first few episodes, so the foundation is still being established, both in the story and out. Korra doesn't have a real support system, she hasn't established her place in the city, she hasn't really realized the seriousness of the situation for non-benders. The Avatar is about balance, and not just elemental balance. Korra is not just trying to establish balance with herself, but also between bending and non-bending, change and tradition, the spiritual and the physical. An everyday waterbender couldn't do that.

Plus, if it was just an everyday waterbender, we wouldn't have the chance to see Aang or Katara or Tenzin.


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## Aravelle

You phrased that wonderfully. I love how it's not only grown up with its viewers, but transitioned into something greater than the classic "save the world". People aren't going to bow before her feet like she's the chosen one. She has such a high standard to live up to after Aang. Some of its conflicts reflect real life conflicts... I love it. Especially since they manage to squeeze in humour here in there.

Anyone ship Makorra? >.<


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## Tamwen

Sorry. Masami and Borra myself.

You just can't beat a charming, well-built young man with an entirely boop-able nose. With cupcakes. 

I also like how he reacts to Korra in general. It's different from most guys on TV. He's not emasculated by her saving him, or offended when she rejects his advances. It's sweet. 

Plus, all the emphasis on Masami and Makorra from Nick is making me both irritated and suspicious.

_What if they're forgetting about Borra...

BECAUSE IT'S ENDGAME!_


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## Aravelle

Tamwen said:


> Sorry. Masami and Borra myself.
> 
> You just can't beat a charming, well-built young man with an entirely boop-able nose. With cupcakes.
> 
> I also like how he reacts to Korra in general. It's different from most guys on TV. He's not emasculated by her saving him, or offended when she rejects his advances. It's sweet.
> 
> Plus, all the emphasis on Masami and Makorra from Nick is making me both irritated and suspicious.
> 
> _What if they're forgetting about Borra...
> 
> BECAUSE IT'S ENDGAME!_



Masami is adorable. I love her...she actually acts and looks like a character of mine so it's a bit frustrating..but they seem almost too canon and perfect. Borra is cute, and I do love how he treats her... but... I question chemistry on her side.


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## Mindfire

Aravelle said:


> Masami is adorable. I love her...she actually acts and looks like a character of mine so it's a bit frustrating..but they seem almost too canon and perfect. Borra is cute, and I do love how he treats her... but... I question chemistry on her side.



Guys, this is Zutara/Kataang all over again. And we all know how that went last time. Something tells me all the burned Zutarians are putting their chips on Makorra to make up for their humiliating defeat last time. IMO, they're setting themselves up for disappointment. Masami/Borra is most likely I think. It makes the most sense, plus it would give the show creators another way to troll the Zutarians. And if there's anything I know about Mike and Bryan, it's that they love to troll the Zutarians.


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## Tamwen

Mindfire said:


> Guys, this is Zutara/Kataang all over again. And we all know how that went last time. Something tells me all the burned Zutarians are putting their chips on Makorra to make up for their humiliating defeat last time. IMO, they're setting themselves up for disappointment. Masami/Borra is most likely I think. It makes the most sense, plus it would give the show creators another way to troll the Zutarians. And if there's anything I know about Mike and Bryan, it's that they love to troll the Zutarians.



Oh, of course. Dickalodean is a master troll, and I find Makorra to be rather dangerous. They argue _way_ too much for my taste, which makes for some good UST but a good, stable relationship? Not so much. Korra and Bolin have consistently been friendly and had fun with one another.


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## Mindfire

Tamwen said:


> Oh, of course. Dickalodean is a master troll, and I find Makorra to be rather dangerous. They argue _way_ too much for my taste, which makes for some good UST but a good, stable relationship? Not so much. Korra and Bolin have consistently been friendly and had fun with one another.



Very true.


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## morfiction

Well, the Harry Potter crew certainly grew up during the progresssion of the Harry Potter series. I had a friend complain that she didn't like the newer Harry Potter movies and missed the whimsy of the first two or three.


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## Aravelle

Mindfire said:


> Guys, this is Zutara/Kataang all over again. And we all know how that went last time. Something tells me all the burned Zutarians are putting their chips on Makorra to make up for their humiliating defeat last time. IMO, they're setting themselves up for disappointment. Masami/Borra is most likely I think. It makes the most sense, plus it would give the show creators another way to troll the Zutarians. And if there's anything I know about Mike and Bryan, it's that they love to troll the Zutarians.



Mark my words, we Zutarians will have our vengeance... THROUGH MAKORRA. >.> Bolin was destined to be friend zoned. He's too nice.


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## Aravelle

Did anyone watch the newest episode?

And am I the only person who likes Tahno?


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## Ophiucha

I don't care too much, but if I had to choose, I'd ship Borra. Bolin is just a cutie and I kind of like Mako with Asami. They seem cute together, and I really hate the attitude the show has right now towards girlfriends. Both Korra and Pema remind me of a bad archetype out of a Taylor Swift music video, and it makes me uncomfortable that they aren't discouraging it as much as they should...

As for the show itself, I quite like it. The animation is beautiful and I love a lot of the characters. Tenzin and Lin are probably my favourites, but I love Asami and Bolin as well. The acting has been alright. Korra's voice actress is the only one of the bunch I don't like. I'm excited to see more about the old 'gaang', and the random flashes of Aang seem to indicate we'll get a nice full flashback mode. I also _really_ hope we get to meet old!Zuko and his daughter somewhere down the line.


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## morfiction

SPOILER....................................................

I'm surprised Toph's daughter didn't break her foot doing that............. I have no idea what her proper name is and I don't care! Since when did Toph herself have to STOMP so damn hard to.. well do what she does..........................

end spoiler............


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## morfiction

Possilby spoileric...........

I wonder.......... Did Toph marry Zuko OR did she marry Saka?


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## Mindfire

morfiction said:


> Possilby spoileric...........
> 
> I wonder.......... Did Toph marry Zuko OR did she marry Saka?



Neither...


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## Aravelle

She honestly doesn't strike me as the type to marry. However, I like to think that Sokka is Lin's daddy.

P.S. I have officially changed ships. Forget Makorra: I'm all about Kahno now. I feel so fickle for it. xD


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## Mindfire

Aravelle said:


> She honestly doesn't strike me as the type to marry. However, I like to think that Sokka is Lin's daddy.
> 
> P.S. I have officially changed ships. Forget Makorra: I'm all about Kahno now. I feel so fickle for it. xD



Actually, Toph married an "unknown earthbender" according to canon. Haru maybe? Sokka stayed with Suki and Zuko stayed with Mai more likely than not.


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## Aravelle

Mindfire said:


> Actually, Toph married an "unknown earthbender" according to canon. Haru maybe? Sokka stayed with Suki and Zuko stayed with Mai more likely than not.



Really? I'm surprised I hadn't heard that. I'm a-okay with Zuko and Mai but I never was big on Suki.


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## Mindfire

Aravelle said:


> Really? I'm surprised I hadn't heard that. I'm a-okay with Zuko and Mai but I never was big on Suki.



What did you have against Suki? I thought she was pretty awesome as far as non-benders go. Easily in the top 5 non-bender warriors of the series. The other 4 would be Sokka, Master Piandao, Jet, and Mai, not necessarily in that order.


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## Aravelle

Mindfire said:


> What did you have against Suki? I thought she was pretty awesome as far as non-benders go. Easily in the top 5 non-bender warriors of the series. The other 4 would be Sokka, Master Piandao, Jet, and Mai, not necessarily in that order.



She was badass, but her personality never really struck me. She seemed bland to me. I may have to watch the series again to re-evaluate, but she seemed pale in comparison to other characters.


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## Burst

Absolutely love Avatar: The Last Airbender and The Legend of Korra... Best shows on Nickelodeon.


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## Garren Jacobsen

Who all just watched the season finale of Legend of Korra? Seriously one of the best endings I have ever seen.


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## Kelise

Honestly? I was incredibly disappointed by it. She didn't do anything yet her problems were solved easily. The build up to General Iroh II was pointless.

Though I could just be grumpy over only getting four hours sleep this past week and I'm grumpy anyhow.


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## Ophiucha

Spoilers ahead!

I didn't like it much either. A lot of things that could have carried over into season 2 were just resolved in the last five minutes. The lingering threat of two bloodbending brothers? Solved. Korra needing to unlock her spiritual side and gain access to the other three elements? Solved. Nearly every bender in Republic City without their powers? Solved, once she rounds 'em all up and goes all Avatar on them. Hell, even the not-particularly-interesting Mako/Korra/Asami love triangle was settled, though... did Mako ever actually _break up_ with Asami? That part wasn't very clear.

I guess my issue is that this season doesn't seem to have any consequences. The only things that have really changed from Episode 1 to Episode 12 is that Korra has a fine piece of man and a couple of friends and now she can airbend. Like, everything with Amon now just seems sort of pointless, and I wonder what the hell season 2 is even going to be about. I _hope_ it is about the nonbenders who weren't necessarily genocidal Nazi-imagery maniacs who have legitimate complaints about the bending elite, because as of now the only non-bender we have in the Krew is Asami, who is so rich that any privileges the benders get probably go unnoticed to her.

I did, however, like that she got into a giant robot fight with her dad. That was cool.


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## Mindfire

I firmly disagree with you guys on this. This season finale is on par with the Sozin's Comet event. And I think that's how it should be viewed. remember that originally, LoK was only going to _have_ one season. So this was originally going to be the _series_ finale. They HAD to wrap everything up. And honestly, I like loose ends being tied up and they way they were tied up makes sense.

-Tarrlok's murder/suicide with Amon is his way of finding redemption for all the horrible things he did, for making up for failing to stop Amon himself, and for making sure that his father's legacy- the monsters he created- doesn't continue. I thought it was a very powerful image.

-As for Korra's airbending, spirituality, and getting her bending back, what did you WANT exactly? To see her go on a quest or something? Because we've seen that story already. It was The Last Airbender. That's why the writers didn't do that. They didn't want to re-tread old ground. Plus, Korra getting her bending back and entering the Avatar state isn't as Deus ex Machina as you think. (And even if it was, that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.) Read this. Once you realize that the true reason Korra went up to that cliff was to commit suicide it all makes sense. She didn't unlock her spirituality just by crying. She did it by deciding to keep living even if she wasn't the avatar anymore, even though that's how she's defined her entire life. Read the article. It explains better.

-As for the other benders getting their powers back? I wanted that to happen. Especially for Lin. She deserved it. After everything she did and went through and her heroic sacrifice, she more than earned getting her powers back. But I'm sure Korra won't do it for ALL the ex-benders. I can think of a certain crime lord she probably won't be helping.

-And you're wrong about this:


> he only things that have really changed from Episode 1 to Episode 12 is that Korra has a fine piece of man and a couple of friends and now she can airbend.


Korra's been going on a spiritual journey this season. Because this show is aimed at a slightly older audience a lot of this is more subtle than in the original show, but it's there. When we first meet Korra, how does she introduce herself? "I'm the avatar and you gotta deal with it!" And the entire middle of the series is about her questioning whether or not she _is_ a true avatar. About trying to live in Aang's shadow. About how being the avatar dominates her life and is her only source of identity. The ending pulls her arc together nicely. She realizes she's not really the avatar any longer. The only thing she's defined herself as is gone. She decides there's no more reason to live and goes out to jump off a cliff. But at the last moment, she decides that even if she's not "special" anymore, she's going to keep living anyway and be who she is. She's going to find her true identity outside the avatar title even though it's painful lo lose that part of herself. And in the very moment she makes that choice, Aang appears. "When we reach our lowest point, we are open to the greatest change." Indeed, Aang. Indeed.

Other things that happened this season:
-Mako learning not to be an indecisive prick.
-Asami dealing with her daddy issues.
-Revealing how Yakone, Amon, and Tarrlok are all connected. Interesting theme of the past spilling over and having repercussions in the present.
-General Iroh II being awesome. He's my new favorite character.

As for the Equalists, I don't think they _had_ any legitimate grievances. Or at least very few ones. Amon was just stirring the people up to create unrest and achieve his own ends. And even if he really believed it was in the people's best interest, we know it wasn't. I mean, when do we actually _see_ bender oppression or any kind of bending "establishment"? They have metalbender cops out of necessity, not privilege. But we see they have non-bender cops as well, and I'm pretty sure the police will start adapting some of the Equalists' methods also in order to improve their effectiveness. As for the government, the council may be composed entirely of benders _now_, but Sokka was on the council once so we know it wasn't/isn't always like that. In fact, we only know with 100% certainty of TWO benders on the council: Tarrlok and Tenzin. We don't know _what_ the other three are. They could easily be non-benders of South Water Tribe, Earth Kingdom, or Fire Nation heritage. We also see that the United Forces employ benders and non-benders alike without prejudice. Look at Commander Bumi for instance. In fact we never in this show that I can recall, ever see an ordinary bender go out of their way to be mean to an ordinary non-bender, or even do something mean in passing. The only people who do stuff like that are the triads, but come on.  You can't judge an entire city by its _criminals._ The pro bending sport is enjoyed by bender and non-bender fans alike. Even the hobos have a society where benders and non-benders peacefully coexist. Given the overwhelming evidence, I'd say Amon was stirring up the people over mostly imaginary sorrows. His hatred of bending had nothing to do with how people in Republic City were treated. It was about his hatred of himself and his father. Here's Amon's thinking:

"Most powerful kind of bending" = bloodbending.
bloodbending = causes pain and misery
causes pain and misery = evil
bloodbending = evil
most powerful (or "purest") form of bending = evil
therefore, ALL BENDING = evil.

It had nothing to do with the common man at all.

The council will probably select a non-bender from the Northern Water Tribe to replace Tarrlok on the council, hold a meeting with the people, address the probably few legitimate grievances the non-bender people have, the Equalists will decline into a fringe terrorist group far less effective than they used to be and now lead by the Lieutenant guy. Korra will pursue her relationship with Mako, Asami will hook up with General Iroh, and they'll most likely introduce a new villain for season 2.

As for the Mako/Asami breakup, it was kind of just understood between them. Kind of an "I care about you, but we're not meant to be" kind of deal.


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## Mindfire

Also, we know the White Lotus don't discriminate by bending ability since one of their most prominent members was Master Piandao, one of if not THE greatest swordsman who ever lived. The guy was so awesome, he could fight alongside Master Pakku, Iroh, Jeong Jeong, and Bumi and somehow NOT be overshadowed by their awesomeness. He was like the Batman of the 19th century Avatar-verse.


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## Ophiucha

Regardless of their intent to end the series this way, this wrapped things up entirely too neatly in entirely too little time. I never felt like Korra went on a spiritual journey, or even got any series sense of her training with Tenzin in airbending and spiritualism by the time Amon became a real threat. In fact, until this episode, it almost seemed like an abandoned plot line, and then suddenly "oh, airbending, also Avatar State". In order to avoid rehashing the first series, rather, I think they should have had her spent the next season really learning to tap into her spiritual side, which Aang had already mastered by season 1. It could have gone a few ways. One way could have been to have Season 2 take place predominantly in the Spirit World. We could have extended the Makorrasami triangle with her giving up on him in order to attain a spiritualism, in a similar way to what the Master told Aang to do with Katara when he was trying to unblock his chakra, and what he refused to do at first.

Further, while I can sort of accept the badass suicide/murder of Tarrlok and Amon, I find everything about it to be just a bit too convenient. Honestly, they made Tarrlok come across as sympathetic this entire finale, and really, that didn't work for me. I really didn't forgive him for any of that crap he pulled. The whole "he's my brother" plot came out of the complete left wing and I just didn't see a thing in his character that makes him the sort to pull what he did. At least not _yet_. I could see this as the ending to a Season 2, if season 2 were about the return of the brothers as bloodbending badasses, and Tarrlok inevitably pulls the betrayal kill at the end. But not this suddenly. It didn't give him enough time.

I certainly _wanted_ Lin to get her bending back, but again, it's just too damn easy. There are no consequences of Amon's reign of terror. Think about how great a season it would have been to deal with a city without benders except Tenzin's family and the homeless guys. The lingering thoughts of revolution in the minds of a few Equalists. The discontent. That'd have been quite the conflict. But now everything in that city is basically going to go back to normal, and the Equalists are just a bunch of disorganized chi-blockers worth little consideration.

Further, they very much _do _have a point.
 - All of the councilmen are benders. The police force are all benders. Everyone in power is a bender.
 - Benders have a useful, marketable talent from birth. Even Mako and Bolin, who are poor and homeless, can easily obtain jobs because of their powers. When we see Mako working to get money for their entry into the tournament early on, he is working a factory job that requires firebending. There are very few jobs a bender wouldn't be _better _at. It is desirable. Further, as technology progresses in this world, we can see that non-bending jobs are fading out. In the first series, there were plenty of places for non-benders. In Republic City, at least, it seems like everything is menial labour - which benders are better at - or 'high class' jobs like businessman or a scholar. It doesn't fairly support the proportional number of benders to nonbenders.
 - When Tarrlok attacks the Equalists, he tosses people against the walls, freezes them into little miniature iceburgs, and seriously could be hurting these people who are, really, learning self-defence. Benders are powerful. Like, wrap people up and lift the ground they're under _powerful_. There's a reason to fear them.
 - And it seems like all of the crime bosses are benders, too. And all of their lackies, at least that we've seen.

So benders in this city are taking all the jobs, have all the power (legally and illegally), and - Amon is right - are the cause of the devastating war that happened less than a century ago. They have a distinct privilege over nonbenders, and while Amon may have used that for his own purposes and to resolve his own little issues, the actions of his Lieutenant (the dude with the little Fu Manchu moustache) show that there are nonbenders who feel the same way, and I really don't think they're _all _Yakon's kids. I want to see that Lieutenant be the villain in the next season, and I want to see his side of the argument represented more fairly.

Also, Mako is kind of a Mary Sue. He gets both of the ladies, and I've seen no sign of him not being an indecisive little prick still or redeeming himself in any way for his actions. He's so ~special~ that he can break away from Amon's bloodbending when nobody else has ever done so. He's so ~precious~ that the thought of him losing his firebending broke something in Korra and unleashed her never before used airbending powers. I mean, god, Korra, just go date Bolin or something, Asami can date Iroh or whatever, and Mako should just get crushed by a boulder.

Unrelated: Bumi II - awesome, more of him please.


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## Mindfire

On the first half of your statement, we'll have to agree to disagree. But I will address the second half.



Ophiucha said:


> Further, they very much _do _have a point.
> - All of the councilmen are benders. The police force are all benders. Everyone in power is a bender.
> - Benders have a useful, marketable talent from birth. Even Mako and Bolin, who are poor and homeless, can easily obtain jobs because of their powers. When we see Mako working to get money for their entry into the tournament early on, he is working a factory job that requires firebending. There are very few jobs a bender wouldn't be _better _at. It is desirable. Further, as technology progresses in this world, we can see that non-bending jobs are fading out. In the first series, there were plenty of places for non-benders. In Republic City, at least, it seems like everything is menial labour - which benders are better at - or 'high class' jobs like businessman or a scholar. It doesn't fairly support the proportional number of benders to nonbenders.
> - When Tarrlok attacks the Equalists, he tosses people against the walls, freezes them into little miniature iceburgs, and seriously could be hurting these people who are, really, learning self-defence. Benders are powerful. Like, wrap people up and lift the ground they're under _powerful_. There's a reason to fear them.
> - And it seems like all of the crime bosses are benders, too. And all of their lackies, at least that we've seen.
> 
> So benders in this city are taking all the jobs, have all the power (legally and illegally), and - Amon is right - are the cause of the devastating war that happened less than a century ago. They have a distinct privilege over nonbenders, and while Amon may have used that for his own purposes and to resolve his own little issues, the actions of his Lieutenant (the dude with the little Fu Manchu moustache) show that there are nonbenders who feel the same way, and I really don't think they're _all _Yakon's kids. I want to see that Lieutenant be the villain in the next season, and I want to see his side of the argument represented more fairly.
> 
> Also, Mako is kind of a Mary Sue. He gets both of the ladies, and I've seen no sign of him not being an indecisive little prick still or redeeming himself in any way for his actions. He's so ~special~ that he can break away from Amon's bloodbending when nobody else has ever done so. He's so ~precious~ that the thought of him losing his firebending broke something in Korra and unleashed her never before used airbending powers. I mean, god, Korra, just go date Bolin or something, Asami can date Iroh or whatever, and Mako should just get crushed by a boulder.
> 
> Unrelated: Bumi II - awesome, more of him please.



1. The councilmen, police, and people in power are NOT all benders. I addressed this. The council is not always composed of benders only. Sokka was a member you recall, as was a non-bender air acolyte at one time. This suggests that the council members are selected based on ethnicity, not bending talent. You can only say that council member selection is discriminatory when we see that ONLY benders are elected to office. As far as the police, we've seen non-bender officers. The metalbenders aren't the whole police force. They're the SWAT team. The elite. And this is from _necessity_, not prejudice. Metalbending is second only to bloodbending when it comes to the difficulty of countering it, which makes it a desirable skill for police officers, especially when there is no ready alternative. After this crisis however, I can see the council allocating funding for a new regiment of non-bender elite cops armed with electric gloves and chi-blocking skills. Also, we see that very rich and powerful businessmen are non-benders, like the Cabbage Corp guy and Asami's dad. So clearly benders do not have ALL the power. We also never see a legit bender abusing their power. We only see that coming from the Triad gangs and from Tarrlok, who was- DUH- a bad guy. You cant blame ALL the benders for what they did.

2. Just because benders have a useful talent from birth isnt a cause for outcry, not is it a reason to take away their talents so people can be more "equal". That's like wanting to handicap a star athlete because he's a natural, or wanting to give Stephen Hawking a lobotomy to make him less of a genius. In an industrialized city like Republic City, I'd argue benders are less necessary, not more. In the old days, benders made up the bulk of the army and the work force because there were tasks only they could do. Now, with the new technology, this is less so. There are more opportunities for non-benders as engineers, technicians, repair guys, politicians, scholars, educators, police officers, assembly line workers, businessmen, etc. There's hardly any job a firebender can do that an ordinary joe can't do with a blowtorch. In a modern city, non-benders have MORE opportunity, not less.

3. Again, you can't judge all benders based on Tarrlok. That's like judging all Muslims based on Al Qaeda. Yeah sure benders _could_ do those things. But the fact is that they don't. Benders abusing their power is never actually shown outside of Tarrlok and the Triads. And really, it's unfair to judge someone based on what they _could_ do. I _could_ grab my dad's shotgun and go on a shooting spree. But does that give my neighbors license to live in mortal terror and demand the police take my dad's guns away? NO! Fear of what _could_ happen, but is unlikely to happen is called paranoia.

4. Yeah the crime bosses are benders. You're surprised by that? The crime bosses prove my point more than yours. The crime bosses are evidence that there are benders trying to keep their privilege by resorting to _being_ crime bosses. They're doing this because they're in a society that needs them less and less. Technology is replacing bending in many ways, so they try to hold on to their importance through crime.

5. You cannot blame ALL the benders for the 100 year war. The only ones to blame for that are Sozin, Azulon, and Ozai. And perhaps Azula. And let's be honest. Even if they didn't have bending, we all know those psychos would have started a war anyway. The 100 year war was about national supremacy, not bender supremacy. And who were its first victims? Airbenders.

6. There are doubtless non-benders who sympathized with the Equalist cause, otherwise there wouldn't _be_ an Equalist cause. But this does not necessarily mean that these people are right or their grievances are legitimate. This is a _show_ you remember. They don't have any legitimate grievances until we _see_ their legitimate grievances. And so far we have seen jack all that justifies the Equalists' blatant terrorism.

7. The Lieutenant probably will come back, but like I said, with the passing of their charismatic leader, the cause will doubtless decline into a fringe group. And in reaction against the Equalists, I have no doubt that Korra, Tenzin, and the council will make every attempt to address whatever few legit complaints the non-benders have. They will if they're smart anyway.

8. I don't share your harsh opinion of Mako. He's a bit of a jerk but somehow he still remains likable to me. Don't know why. Just does. Also, I don't think he was just so ~special~ that he powered through Amon's bloodbending. Because he didn't power through it. He sucker punched Amon with lightning. There's a difference.

And yes. Bumi II is awesome.


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## Ophiucha

I'll particularly address the issue of the work force, since the rest is left primarily to what we see and what we can infer. But the work force? That's worldbuilding. We _see _firebenders using their powers in factory life. Bending in an industrialized world is _more_ useful. The idea that technology makes magic useless frankly just shows a lack of thought in the creators. I'll quote something I wrote on my tumblr a few weeks ago in regard to this.



> I’ve always been confused when people say “magic or technology, never both, they cannot coexist”. Legend of Korra demonstrates, for better and for worse, just how I’ve always seen them coexisting. Using magically generated fire or electricity as a source of energy, using earthbending or something similar to flatten the ground and build up a house (if earthbenders and waterbenders can bend mud, which we saw with Toph and Katara, they could certainly bend cement), waterbenders can build entire canals in days and work at a hydro plant. If you wanted to build a water dam, you could get a team of waterbenders to simply hold back the water while they work.
> 
> It’s hard to find a job that a nonbender would be _better _at. Now consider what the industrial revolution did for the workforce in the real world. How many jobs were replaced by tractors and the like? Consider also the existence of tameable, magical, and relatively intelligent animals - such as sky bison - and you’re left not _needing _nonbenders. If technology advances sufficiently, there simply won’t be a place for them at all. Not just stuck with the crappiest jobs or the jobs that bending doesn’t aid in, but simply with no jobs at all. Even merchants could eventually die out. After all, in modern times, many stores have shut down in favour of internet retail - an equivalent of which could exist another hundred years down the road.
> 
> Of course, they are still the spouses, parents, and siblings of benders. There are still jobs of the mind and heart. Literature, art, music. Scientists, engineers. But I doubt a society could sustain itself if 80% of the population or whatever the numbers are were poets and sculptors. And, ****, benders are still more than capable of taking those jobs as society exists. An earthbender would make a fine sculptors, as evidenced by the sand castle Toph made in the original series. Painter!waterbenders? Airbending flautists? It just doesn’t end.



Just as I did then, I still believe there is a distinct use for bending in an industrial world, because the only thing that could replace such profound power as we've seen benders have is fifty or so non-benders per bender or _very advanced_ technology, which replaces *both *of them. Heading into the future, there's a chance - I think - of an equal society for the two, if it becomes so much like our world that most of the jobs are for the office, but honestly, I think it's naive to think benders won't find a use for their power in a modern civilization to maintain their power.

The moment I saw Mako working in a factory, I was basically on the side of the nonbenders. Not the Equalists, I don't agree with them. But there is a divide. And regardless of how you use that power, this is an unequal society. The fact that most benders do not use their powers for evil doesn't mean they don't have that power, and as long as their is no fair equivalent for non-benders (which is what chi-blocking was meant to be, to me), it really can't be an entirely equal society. In our world, we have things for that. There are discrimination laws and laws to help handicapped people. Until there's evidence of that in this world, I'm not sure how comfortable I feel dismissing the Equalist's _point_, even if I disagree with the method.


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## Mindfire

Well, what are you suggesting? That benders shouldn't be allowed to work? That their gifts should be banned or forcibly taken? They have families to feed to, you know. And on a really practical level I'm not convinced that this is a concern because the number of jobs is greater than the number of benders from what I can see. The benders will doubtless gravitate to jobs where their skills are needed while non-benders take jobs in management, the sciences, art, education, etc. In fact, I could see the non-benders becoming the white-collar class with benders doing the grunt work before I could see the reverse happening.

The problem with looking at the situation in the way you described is that there is _no_ solution. You can't strip people of their abilities just to make them "equal" with everyone else. That's just as wrong as oppression would be, as Amon's terrorists have shown us. 

Well, on second thought, there is one possible solution. Since we know that energybending can restore bending, it's not a huge stretch of suspension of disbelief that it could bestow or unlock bending potential in those who want it. But even if the non-benders are at a disadvantage I see no evidence that they're being "oppressed." There are rich and powerful non-benders and benders alike.

And your point about chi-blocking is double-edged. As far as I recall, it's not illegal. If somebody really feels uncomfortable or nervous, they can go learn that skill, as long as they don't learn it from the Equalists.


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## Ophiucha

I won't disagree that there are no easy solutions, but I think there is a problem - or, at least, the beginnings of one, and I refuse to believe that absolutely nobody who sided with Amon had legitimate grievances, since it seemed like he had a pretty big following. If I'm honest, my biggest problem with Legend of Korra, _overall_, has been Amon in general. They portray him more like Hitler - hell, look at all the Nazi imagery in this finale - when really, up until the big reveal, he just sort of seemed like an extremist freedom fighter. This wasn't a matter of propaganda, it's an _underground movement_. While I'll always disagree with extremist methods, I simply can't help but feel like the rhetoric he used had to have some valid points to it. 

Also, his motives were pretty poorly explained. Evil dad, bloodbending woes ... destroy all bending??? I feel like there's a _big_ piece of that story we're missing, but since they decided to just kill him off, I guess we'll never know what happened there. Or with Tarrlok, who somehow went from "bloodbending is wrong and it hurts!" to "muahahahahahaha" to "ohnowait, bloodbending is wrong!". :/ I mean, gah, there's just so much about Tarrlok and Amon that is completely unexplained and just killing them off is such a terrible way to end their story that I can't even begin to list all the things that could have been done better with them.

Was she seeing her visions of Yakon to warn her about Tarrlok... or Amon? That was never made particularly clear and now that they've said they're brothers, I just want to find anything in the previous episodes that could even have slightly hinted at this, and that's really the only thing that ties them. But it's just sort of left ambiguous, even though she had a chance to talk to Aang and ask directly.


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## Mindfire

Ophiucha said:


> I won't disagree that there are no easy solutions, but I think there is a problem - or, at least, the beginnings of one, and I refuse to believe that absolutely nobody who sided with Amon had legitimate grievances, since it seemed like he had a pretty big following. If I'm honest, my biggest problem with Legend of Korra, _overall_, has been Amon in general. They portray him more like Hitler - hell, look at all the Nazi imagery in this finale - when really, up until the big reveal, he just sort of seemed like an extremist freedom fighter. This wasn't a matter of propaganda, it's an _underground movement_. While I'll always disagree with extremist methods, I simply can't help but feel like the rhetoric he used had to have some valid points to it.


Amon struck me as more of a Marxist actually, although his methods were more Nazi-ish, with a dash of modern terrorism.



> Also, his motives were pretty poorly explained. Evil dad, bloodbending woes ... destroy all bending??? I feel like there's a _big_ piece of that story we're missing, but since they decided to just kill him off, I guess we'll never know what happened there. Or with Tarrlok, who somehow went from "bloodbending is wrong and it hurts!" to "muahahahahahaha" to "ohnowait, bloodbending is wrong!". :/ I mean, gah, there's just so much about Tarrlok and Amon that is completely unexplained and just killing them off is such a terrible way to end their story that I can't even begin to list all the things that could have been done better with them.


I wouldn't say that Amon and Tarrlok were _poorly_ explained so much as the explanation wasn't obvious. As I said a couple posts up, I think I've broken down Amon's way of thinking fairly accurately, and it goes something like this: 


> "Most powerful kind of bending" = bloodbending.
> bloodbending = causes pain and misery
> causes pain and misery = evil
> bloodbending = evil
> most powerful (or "purest") form of bending = evil
> therefore, ALL BENDING = evil.


I think in Amon's mind the inequity between benders and non-benders is greatly exaggerated due to his experiences with his father. Because to Amon, ALL BENDERS are, or could be, just like his father. His personal experiences shaped his views on bending, similar to thw way some people's experiences during crisis situations shape their opinions against violence. As for Tarrlok, I don't think he ever reveled in his bloodbending power. We never see him gloat over the fact that he can bloodbend, except when facing Amon, and that was more bravado than anything. If he really _enjoyed_ bloodbending, it would have been his first resort against Korra instead of his last I think. He was reluctant to use it and only did so because he realized he had no chance against THE AVATAR without it.



> Was she seeing her visions of Yakon to warn her about Tarrlok... or Amon? That was never made particularly clear and now that they've said they're brothers, I just want to find anything in the previous episodes that could even have slightly hinted at this, and that's really the only thing that ties them. But it's just sort of left ambiguous, even though she had a chance to talk to Aang and ask directly.



I think Aang was trying to warn her about both of them, but probably more Amon than Tarrlok. After all the visions started after she encountered Amon IIRC.

Who knows? Maybe they will fill in more blanks in season 2. I'm STILL hoping to find out about Zuko's mother. And what do you think of the idea of using energybending to make people more equal? It would be kind of the opposite of Amon's way. Those who want bending can have it, those who don't want it don't have to get it.


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## Ophiucha

I don't think that's enough, your ideas on his motivations. It's still missing that necessary middle piece that just wasn't given. Maybe they can give us a bit more in Season 2, but with him dead...

As for using energybending to give people bending, I mean, it's fantasy, so I guess it's plausible. Time consuming for Korra, though, to the point where you'd likely have to filter it somehow - hell, restoring all of the bending to Republic City will likely to take weeks, maybe months, could you imagine how long it'd take just to give half the nonbenders the power in that city alone? Let alone the rest of the world. You'd also run into moral issues with it, and giving more people bending could _increase _the likelihood of a bender privilege. Those who choose not to get it would really have no place in the work force since they'd be outnumbered. At least before they had a chance on numbers alone, even if benders are preferable. 20 nonbenders are as good as 1 bender, so as long as the ratio is 20:1 they still have a place, you know? And you'd have moral dilemmas. Do you give it to somebody who could use it for evil? There are 'birth' benders who are evil, so it's unfair discrimination to start psychologically profiling nonbenders who want to get the power, but I'd certainly see Korra wanting to not just give it to any old crime lord or serial killer.


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## Mindfire

You raise some interesting questions and I don't have answers for all of them. However, I don't think that it's unfair to profile people before giving them bending. After all, Aang set a precedent for taking away bending if it is misused or abused, and the Avatar has full authority to do that, so the Avatar should also have full authority to decide whether someone is worthy of being a bender. Although I can hardly think of a situation where someone would be denied. As for it being time consuming, I see your point. But this is fantasy. Surely Korra can go on some epic spirit world quest and gain the ability to give bending power to everyone all at the same time?


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## Ophiucha

Valid point, on the taking away bending front.

I suppose the epic spirit world quest thing would be a matter of "does everybody want to bend?" Given the massive uprising against bending, it's certainly possible that those people resent not just benders, but bending itself. Not everyone would want to be a bender, so you couldn't just give it to everyone, either, without building resentments. Not to mention, we don't know how easy it is to learn how to bend as an adult. And on the individual scale, you could have some questionable choices. What should Korra do if some parents bring in a baby and want to be sure it can bend (or can't bend, even)? That baby isn't being given a choice, though I daresay Korra is more likely to give it bending than to take it away, which has its own moral implications (implying bending is superior, for instance).


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## Mindfire

Ophiucha said:


> Valid point, on the taking away bending front.
> 
> I suppose the epic spirit world quest thing would be a matter of "does everybody want to bend?" Given the massive uprising against bending, it's certainly possible that those people resent not just benders, but bending itself. Not everyone would want to be a bender, so you couldn't just give it to everyone, either, without building resentments. Not to mention, we don't know how easy it is to learn how to bend as an adult. And on the individual scale, you could have some questionable choices. What should Korra do if some parents bring in a baby and want to be sure it can bend (or can't bend, even)? That baby isn't being given a choice, though I daresay Korra is more likely to give it bending than to take it away, which has its own moral implications (implying bending is superior, for instance).



I'm not sure that has any moral implications. If bending wasn't in some sense beneficial, there wouldn't have been an Equalist movement in the first place. And from the perspective of someone in the audience like me, having bending is much cooler than not having it, unless you can make up for it with crazy martial arts skills, like Suki, Sokka, Asami, and Master Piandao can/could. As for the baby, I say better to let it have/keep its power and then decide for itself when it gets older.


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## Aravelle

I am with Mindfire on this one. Although the finale disappointed me in more ways than one, I understand why. It was rushed, characterization has been a large sacrifice with the shortness of the series... because it was originally going to be one. With the overwhelming popularity of it, it's probably going to be a minimum of 3, leaving more room for filler episodes and characterization.

Am I the only person who adores Asami with a bloodied passion? I was so scared Bryke was going to make her go with her father.


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## Aravelle

I wish Korra had lost her bending for more than a few minutes, so she would be forced to focus on her spirituality. I also LOATHED the Makorra thing. He hasn't even broken up with Asami yet for Aang's sake.


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## Ophiucha

Asami is fabulous. I hope she ends up with Iroh II and becomes the Fire Lady, because she deserves a throne.


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## Mindfire

Ophiucha said:


> Asami is fabulous. I hope she ends up with Iroh II and becomes the Fire Lady, because she deserves a throne.



This. So much this. While I don't have anything against Makorra (anymore), Asami hasn't gotten a fair shake I feel. She gave up her father, who was the last family she had, and all of her material possessions, which were a LOT, in order to take a stand and do the right thing. Plus, she had every reason to side with Amon, and she didn't. She deserves better. I mean, what did Korra sacrifice? Jack all. I have nothing against Korra, but still.


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## ethgania

Yeah, I'm not too sure about how I felt about the ending either.  But I mean, I understand a lot of the problems came from having to rush since they were only in it for the 12 episodes at first.  Hopefully the upcoming season(s) are better paced... although I read somewhere about adding a third season while they were already working on two, so it may just happen all over again.

Either way, given the constraints, they've done a good job!  I mean, fitting as much as they did into 12 23-odd minute episodes?  It may require a lot of rushing but they got it done without sacrificing much quality.

Also, Iroh II irritates me because of his voice.  Sigh!


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## Ophiucha

Zuko's voice coming out of that character was definitely a little weird. But, I mean, the voice actor _is_ 36, so it's not like he wasn't the right age for it. It's just... _Zuko_.


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## ethgania

My husband and I were watching it together every week, and when he started talking it was just a big "...Reaaallly?" moment for us.

I'm sure it doesn't bother the kids who are coming to the show for the first time as just another in their Saturday line-up, but daaaang it's distracting.


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## Devor

I saw a great article about Legend of Korra.  It's a little bit harsh, but if you've seen the show, I think it can help you a lot in thinking about your characters.

How You Can Have a Bunch of Great Ideas but Still Fuck Up Real Bad: A Korra Essay | something entertaining

I want to say, I disagree with him completely about the Romance episode - I thought that was one of the best in the series.  And I could argue with a point or two.  But I think he's spot-on about a lot of other things, and he addresses them in a way that I think will help in thinking about character arcs.


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## Mindfire

Read the article. Author had a few points but, suffice it to say that none of the things that bothered her bothered me at all. Didn't even come into my mind. Maybe it's because I'm easily pleased, or because I'm a sucker for perfect resolutions. Whatever. Korra won, General Iroh was epic, Amon and Tarrlok were enjoyably sinister. Honestly I would have been disappointed if they'd done some of the things she suggested. Like that bittersweet ending business. Ick. 

I actually liked the Avatar State scene at the end. It was a very iconic moment for me. I came for awesomeness, and awesomeness I received. I'm satisfied. To each his own I guess?

Also, anybody else think Amon resembles Darth Vader in the finale?


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## Devor

Mindfire said:


> Author had a few points but, suffice it to say that none of the things that bothered her bothered me at all.



The one that really bothered me was how much her Avatar training completely disappeared in the series.  She didn't work on air bending at all.  I wouldn't have minded the ending had she progressed in her training throughout the series and come to the point where the ending was appropriate.

But the article talks about other things.  I think he's right, for instance, that the bond between Mako and Bolin doesn't really come up once Bolin gives up on wanting to date Korra, which he does rather suddenly.  And that they never had a discussion about their personal history, having their family killed by fire benders, after Amon makes the same claim.  That would've helped to give them a more fulfilling arc and made the emotion of the Equalizer's claims feel more tempting.

To be clear, I didn't post it to criticize the show.  Aside from the lack of spiritual training, I enjoyed it a lot.  I only posted because I thought the criticism makes some good points about character arcs and storytelling that you can see in the show.


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## Mindfire

Devor said:


> The one that really bothered me was how much her Avatar training completely disappeared in the series.  She didn't work on air bending at all.  I wouldn't have minded the ending had she progressed in her training throughout the series and come to the point where the ending was appropriate.
> 
> But the article talks about other things.  I think he's right, for instance, that the bond between Mako and Bolin doesn't really come up once Bolin gives up on wanting to date Korra, which he does rather suddenly.  And that they never had a discussion about their personal history, having their family killed by fire benders, after Amon makes the same claim.  That would've helped to give them a more fulfilling arc and made the emotion of the Equalizer's claims feel more tempting.
> 
> To be clear, I didn't post it to criticize the show.  Aside from the lack of spiritual training, I enjoyed it a lot.  I only posted because I thought the criticism makes some good points about character arcs and storytelling that you can see in the show.



I think the author is a girl. Jayd is a girl's name. Right?

And the Equalists weren't supposed to feel _tempting_, they were supposed to feel _threatening_. So far as that goes, mission accomplished. From my point of view the Equalists were always going to be wrong, simply because they're the bad guys. Oh and they're terrorists. And they forcibly "modify" people to push their agenda. Plus, the benders are all heroes except the gangs and Tarrlok. The Equalists' claims were never going to hold water with me. I wanted to see them go down, not sympathize with them. I think all these people trying to make the Equalists sympathetic are somewhat missing the point. What about Azula and Ozai? Would you like to sympathize with them also?


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## Devor

Mindfire said:


> I think all these people trying to make the Equalists sympathetic are somewhat missing the point. What about Azula and Ozai? Would you like to sympathize with them also?



I think maybe you latched onto the wrong word of the point I was making.  Having Mako and Bolin talk more about their family being killed wouldn't actually have made the equalizers sympathetic as, y'know, both of them are benders.  I do mean it would have made their goals tempting, sure . . . if you're evil.  I didn't mean otherwise.  Evil can become more terrifying when it makes valid points.


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## Mindfire

Devor said:


> I think maybe you latched onto the wrong word of the point I was making.  Having Mako and Bolin talk more about their family being killed wouldn't actually have made the equalizers sympathetic as, y'know, both of them are benders.  I do mean it would have made their goals tempting, sure . . . if you're evil.  I didn't mean otherwise.  Evil can become more terrifying when it makes valid points.



Ohhh. That makes more sense.


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