# Beginning with Plot



## skip.knox (Dec 16, 2016)

In a separate post I said I'd be talking about how I intend to plan for my next novel, and I asked how other folks here did their planning. Responses have been great so far! Plot is next up.

This is perhaps the most difficult for me. No, not "perhaps". This is the most difficult for me. I set up interesting challenges and puzzles, but I worry my solutions and resolutions don't measure up. I also fret over how the plot develops, if it moves gracefully from scene to scene.

For _A Child of Great Promise_ the plot is especially fuzzy. I think what I need is the ending. John Irving said he never wrote a novel without knowing the ending, even to the point of knowing the final sentence. That's not a bad goal, however unreachable for the mere mortal author.

So, I have this kid and basically what happens is she grows up. There are, shall we say, more than one way for that to happen. I began with, Falaise stops the evil drow from opening a magical gate that would let in a whole army of drow. This immediately raised some practical issues, but I could sweep most of them aside by saying that she grows into her powers. She shows her quality.

But there were other paths. For example, why not have Falaise rescue the Prince? There've been far too many princess rescues. I liked that, too, because it was something less than Epic. A more modest, human scale to it. But you see the problem. There could be many stories in which a child comes into her own.


There are two other angles to this plot business--structure and premise. The first is easier to tackle.

Some people use the three act structure, or variations on same. I took a look at the Hero's Journey. Some of it doesn't feel like it works, but one part really resonated: the hero's journey to the underworld. I chewed that one around and then I got hit by an inspiration in the form of a pun. What if the underworld wasn't under the ground but was "underworld" in the modern connotation. Falaise winds up going into the social underworld of a city. That's where she finds the key, the prize, the secret, the Macguffin.

I may still have to look at a formal structure. It may help me to ensure the story has good pacing. But for now I'm wrestling other problems.

The other angle to plot is premise. I said before Falaise's story can take many paths. I need to choose one. That's what I'm calling the premise. It's the story goal (which may not be her goal). Save the kingdom. Rescue the prince. Solve a mystery. Prevent the opening of the Gate of Doom. Or all these at once! Right now, the premise feels ... arbitrary.

And finally (whew!), closely related is genre. I could write all this as a mystery. I could write it as romance. Or a novel of self-discovery. But not all three at once, right? Readers bring certain expectations to a genre. And the premise of a romance is going to be different from the premise of an adventure, even if it involves the same characters doing more or less the same things.


So, there you go. Plot, premise, structure, genre. Egads. Have you folks wrestled with these? Do you plan them? If so, how? To reiterate a point made elsewhere, I know plenty of folks simply discover these things as they write. Or that they tease them into formality in subsequent drafts. I've been down that road. I'm looking particularly for how people approach these matters before setting pen to screen. Er, keyboard to paper. Oh, you know what I mean.


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## Heliotrope (Dec 16, 2016)

Yeah, they are all so interwoven and connected it is hard to break them apart, however, I would say my forte tends to be planning plot... sooooooo.... this might be long. Or else I may just post a ton of links lol. 

I love plot. I love a plot that it tightly wound into character because I feel that character is what drives the plot, but I understand that is not always the case (Indiana Jones, Devinci Code, pretty much any Clive Cussler book). 

However, I do believe plot should be driven by an _active_ character who is forced to make _choices_ and those choices are what drive plot forward. 

I almost always use 3 act structure with a tiny bit of hero's journey thrown in. I love Blake Synder's story beats. 

When planning I don't get too deep into planning each scene, because they change so dramatically. However, I do like to have a basic idea of my story beats. So here are the basics I NEED to know before I start. 

_Opening image and closing image. _
For me, I like a story to be a circle. I feel best when a story is a neat little package tied with a bow and there is a definitive beginning and a definitive ending. I love closure, and I love change. So for me the MOST important things to know before I start are the opening scene and the closing scene, which need to be opposites. If the reader were to read the first few pages and the last few pages they need to see change, even without reading the book. 

So, if my book is about a young girl finding her way with her father, then at the beginning of the story I need to show them disconnected, and at the end of the story, I need to show them re-connected. Then I need a symbol to show that. 

In my case, it is a song. In the second chapter of my book, the girl, and her dad have had a fight. He comes to her room with his fiddle and quietly plays her favorite song. Singing together is something they have always done. Something she was basically raised on. He plays and he sings the song as a sort of apology but she's not ready to reconnect so she pretends to be asleep. When he leaves the room he plays in the living room alone and she sings quietly under her blanket so he can't hear her. The point is to show the reader she wants to be connected to her dad, she still wants to sing with him, but something is keeping them apart. She's not ready yet. 

So the final scene in the book, of course, is going to be them at the helm of the ship, singing the song together. 

Once I have by opening scene and my final scene I can start thinking about how that journey happens. 

I might have some ideas in my head for awesome scenes, or emotional scenes, or scary scenes, I write them all down on sticky notes. 

Then I look at my three act structure and beat sheets. I have small checklists of everything I need to hit in each beat. 

So, 

*Act 1*

*Set-up* 
- Before/real life
- the problem she needs to solve
- something makes her unhappy/unsettled
- show her dreams
- show her issues/flaws/things that need fixing
- show her good qualities, why is she heroic? Why should the reader care? 


*Opening scene*

- The reader's very first impression of the story. The tone, mood, type and scope of the story should be found in the opening scene. 
- Show us the "before" for the hero. The starting point. 

*Theme Stated*
- symbolically showing the audience what the theme might be. In mine, it is a half hazard suggestion from a teacher that "Dreams wait for no man, Ms. Rackham. You have to reach out and grab them or they disappear forever." 

* Catalyst*
- What choice does she make that will lead to the inciting event? 
- a mysterious package arrives, or a loved one turns up dead, or whatever needs to happen to start the story in motion. 

* Debate*
- She can still go back. She can still change her mind. (My favorite example of this is in the film Tangled when Rapunzel debates for a while if she is the worst daughter ever). 

An amazing example of debate, watch the whole thing. Her inner conflict is fantastic. Again, I believe story is about _ hard choices._






* Inciting Event*
- Start the story in motion. 
- She is done debating. She makes a choice and can't turn back now. Rock her world in a HUGE way. 
- The stormtroopers come and kill Luke's aunt and uncle and he is forced to go with Obi-Wan. 
- Stakes are raised for the first time. 

*Act Two: Part 1* (The Promise of the Premise) 

- Everything you promised your readers on the back flap needs to happen now. All the cool interesting stuff that lured them in. 
- This is when all the great "movie trailer" stuff gets to happen. The fun battles and cool scenes and chases and explosions and whatever is cool and awesome about your idea. Make it big, wild, fun. 
- Show the Act 2 Problem. The MC embraces the problem and makes a plan to fix it. 
- The MC is going to succeed! Yay! 

*Midpoint Reversal*
- Either a fake success that leads to a terrible failure, or simply a terrible failure. 
- That plan didn't work. They need to go in a new direction entirely. 
- All totally unexpected. Plan no longer viable. 
- New choice. Catch 22. 
- Raise personal and public stakes again. 
- Reveal a secret. 
- Sacrifice a belief or an ally. 

*Act 2: Part 2* Bad Guys Close In 

- Things are bad now. The villain is on to them, or may even have them captured. Or, if you are into reversals, may even have the MC working for them. 
- Start to take everything away. No longer fun and games, things are getting serious. 
- Internal dissent/jealousy begins to destroy the team. 
- New goal. New plan. 

*All is Lost*
- A whiff of death. Lose a team member. Make it meaningful. In The Hunger Games, even though there has been nothing but death for most of the story it is Rue's death, and Katniss' kindness to what should be an 'enemy' which ignites the rebellion in the districts.


- Another failure, or another success that leads to failure. 
- The old way of thinking dies. They can't possibly succeed. 

*Dark Night of the Soul*
- The hero is forced to reach way, way down and pulls out the last, best idea. 
- Primal. Everyone has given up on you. 
- We must be beaten and KNOW IT to get the lesson. 

*Break into Act Three*
- Hazzah! The plan! 
- New goal. 
- We can do this! 

*Act Three*

Climax/Finale
- Face off
- Raise stakes again
- Make it matter
-Twist or surprise
 - Win (with a cost). 

*Final Image*
- The opposite of the opening image. 
- What happens after all is said and done? How have things changed? 

Here are some great resources I LOVE

Fiction University: How to Plot With the Three-Act Structure

Save the Cat!: The Last Book on Screenwriting You'll Ever Need: Blake Snyder: 8580001045399: Books - Amazon.ca


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## Heliotrope (Dec 16, 2016)

Hunger Games Whiff of Death


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## Heliotrope (Dec 23, 2016)

I had to come back to this because you mentioned premise and I didn't touch on premise, which is the most important part! 

Ha! 

Story is premise. Without a solid premise you don't have a story. 

So many new writers get an idea or a concept and start writing right away and soon enough discover they don't actually have a story. 

You have to take the time to develop your premise. 

Coming Up with a Kicker of a Concept | Live Write Thrive

Story Concept and Story Premise: Do You Know the Crucial Difference? - Helping Writers Become Authors

Learn how to write a great premise statement first and foremost. It will save you a ton of headache later. 

How to structure a premise for stronger stories - The Writer


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## Michael K. Eidson (Dec 23, 2016)

Story structure is my biggest failing. I've tried to wing it, and feedback from beta readers indicates I'm close but not quite. So I'm reading up on it more. Heliotrope, your post above is much appreciated. I can see many similarities between your process and what I'm reading on the topic. Since I'll be revising my novel soon based on my latest beta reader feedback, I'll be taking a stab at restructuring the story with an eye to the three-act structure.

For my next book, I plan to address structure more formally in my beginning outline. Will see how it goes.

But this topic makes me think about Miskatonic's thread about being jaded with sf/f in particular (and perhaps fiction in general, what with the elevated interest in history and other non-fiction topics). Can familiarity with the three-act structure or the hero's journey and knowing what to expect from them eventually wear down the avid reader?


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## Heliotrope (Dec 23, 2016)

Honestly. I don't think so. 

Three act structure and heroes journey were developed by thousands of years of storytelling. They were used by the Greeks, who also had formulas for comedy and tragedy, which are also still used today. I re-read A Christmas Carol this month and guess what? He used the story beats I showed above almost exactly and it was written 150 years ago. 

Story is structure. Story is a single package, a gift to the reader based on a single premise. 

When structure is done poorly, or is cliche, people will argue it is boring, they are tired of it.  But when it is done well they won't notice it.... But it is there. It is always there. 

all readers have a certain expectation when they open a new book. They expect the story to open to some sort of goal or conflict and for that conflict to be resolved by the end. But readers also expect a certain amount of structure. They know when a writer is going on a tangent about something that is not related to the plot and they will become frustrated and bored. 

IMO people who complain about structure are the people who don't understand why it's there, or they find it too limiting to their "creativity" so they find ways to make themselves feel better about not using it. That is fine, if you are okay with lukewarm responses from your readers, or you are only writing for yourself.


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## Devor (Dec 23, 2016)

Your basic *plot* comes down to understanding your character and the stakes that matter.  What does your character care about?  A good, personal plotline should force your character to make choices that put those things at risk.  That's what *agency* is all about.

Character, Plot and Setting are all kind of one being, a little web monster where changes to one little thing pull and tug at everything else.

You've got to focus on building up the choices and the tension and the internal conflict for your characters.  Who is your character?  Is she risking anything she cares about by saving the prince or stopping the drow portal from opening?  If the answer is "no," you need to raise the stakes.

 - - - - -

I would definitely encourage everyone to read up on *plot structure*.  Even if you choose to deviate from it at times, the jargon alone is invaluable, and the ability to be deliberate in your structure can elevate the quality of your work tremendously.  You don't have to understand story structure through the classic 3-Act format, though.  I know Penpilot likes to talk about a seven-point system that's been going around, which is a little looser.  And there are others.

Story structure also gets complicated when you have multiple POVs and an epic tome such as ASOIAF.  Yes, that means you get to deviate from the formula, but in a way that only makes a basic understanding the principles even more important.

 - - - - -

As for premise, ultimately you have to come to a place where you can trust your own creative judgement.  Don't think of it as arbitrary; think of it as personal, to you.  A way of expressing things you enjoy in a story and the world you create and the kinds of characters you care about.  You get to figure out the kind of writer you want to be.  Embrace that.

 - - - - -

As for genre, you _can_ include both romance and mystery and anything else.  But the more you try to accomplish, the more complicated things get, on your end, to try and make it approachable for readers.  Your personal skill level determines how much you can shoot for in one story.  The more bare bones the story, the lower the difficulty in getting something solid enough to publish.  That goes for plots, for descriptions, for characters, for worldbuilding, for a lot of things.

Cut it as clean as your skill level.


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## Dutch (Dec 23, 2016)

Although not answering any questions, I would just like to say thank you for all of the above! It has helped tremendously it getting me as a novice, planning properly!


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## Demesnedenoir (Dec 25, 2016)

Devor said:


> Story structure also gets complicated when you have multiple POVs and an epic tome such as ASOIAF.  Yes, that means you get to deviate from the formula, but in a way that only makes a basic understanding the principles even more important.



Now this would make for an interesting conversation. Two points... off the top of my head, every concept of structure is essentially the same thing with different bells and whistles. 3-act, 4-act, 7-act, Hero's Journey, and whatever other theories... hell, I was reading some guy's ideas on "story structure" a while back and it was really interesting how he dressed it up but it was like reading a Stephen King novel, once I got so far it was smirk and put it down. Story structure is invaluable, so it's fine to read everybody's take on the same thing... but in the end, it is in its essence the same basic thing. Brandon Sanderson doesn't seem to think of his books as 3 act, as I recall, but... of what I know, yeah, they are. 

With something like ASoIaF, although I've never done a structural breakdown, it's pretty safe to say that the overall story is a blending of plots all following a basic 3 act structure, with the caveat that subplots do not need to show every step in said structure. I have neither the time nor inclination to explore that supposition, but it would be fun.  A person can paint all kinds of facade over the 3 act structure, call it whatever you want, and never even think of it as 3-act, but odds on it will slip right right into the 3 act structure, unless the story is shoddy. 

The trick for every writer who worries about structure, is to find the structure that pulls the trigger in their brain (if they need the trigger pulled, many folks will structure just fine instinctively or because they've been hammered with it for all their lives). Structure is fascinating and useful, sometimes for creation, sometimes for finding flaws in a finished work, or for adding a missing flare or twist, as well as for analyzing what other writers have done.

What must be avoided is the misconception that structure equals formula and predictability. These are the fault of the writer, not the structure.


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## Chessie (Dec 25, 2016)

Sanderson totally has a 3 act structure (and btw I think his magic systems are the best of any fantasy writer atm lol). But every story has a 3 act structure: beginning, middle, and end. I think I've gotten good at writing beginnings, improved at writing middles, and still suck suckier than a sucky straw on endings. This is why a writer's work is never done, there's always something to improve. Our time though is probably better spent writing and learning structure vs trying to write prettier sentences. Js.

Also...could we discuss premise vs plot a bit? I always get stuck on premise and in fact, it's not something I fully understand how to work out of my outlines. Craft books say "you need a good premise" but what? -_-


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## Demesnedenoir (Dec 25, 2016)

Maybe this in part explains my lack of appreciation for Sanderson... despite my own investment in time and energy into a magic system... Maybe I've just grown dark and cynical over the years, but I just don't care much. Maybe because nothing is new under the sun anymore? I dunno.  Maybe my opinion will change as I get deeper into Mistborn, but the system comes off as "meh". From what I've seen, the underlying premise isn't so different than one we house ruled in an RPG back in the 80's. So, it still relies upon his storytelling, which is... adequate. In fact, the writing in Mistborn is better, IMO, than in at least some of his later works. 

A short look at premise vs plot, how I look at it anyhow. The premise tends to be very simple: A shark terrorizes a resort community = Jaws, and of course you could throw in details like: and local law enforcement and a shark expert attempt to destroy the bloodthirsty beast. Clearly, the plot is much more.  I will use the book I'm editing now.

The premise might be: On a northern island secular clans attempt to stifle a rising conflict with the church, but even as they survive the threats of demonic genocide and holy war, they fail to realize they've lost the real battle.

Some folks will start with a premise and build up, others will start with plot and narrow it down... one could almost call the premise a logline.





Chessie said:


> Sanderson totally has a 3 act structure (and btw I think his magic systems are the best of any fantasy writer atm lol). But every story has a 3 act structure: beginning, middle, and end. I think I've gotten good at writing beginnings, improved at writing middles, and still suck suckier than a sucky straw on endings. This is why a writer's work is never done, there's always something to improve. Our time though is probably better spent writing and learning structure vs trying to write prettier sentences. Js.
> 
> Also...could we discuss premise vs plot a bit? I always get stuck on premise and in fact, it's not something I fully understand how to work out of my outlines. Craft books say "you need a good premise" but what? -_-


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## Chessie (Dec 26, 2016)

Thank you, Des. I guess it is sort of like a log line except slightly longer. That's one of my boo-hoo points with craft books: when they say that oh, your premise should be banging, and it should be the first thing!...Premises seem pretty basic to me and the simpler the better, right? Because all of the interesting things should be happening in the plot. At least, that's how I understand it. -_-

And on Sanderson, have you read The Emperor's Soul? It's a novella so not a time commitment but it's probably one of his best displays of magic. I won't spoil it for you in case you decide to read it.


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## Devor (Dec 26, 2016)

Demesnedenoir said:


> Now this would make for an interesting conversation. Two points... off the top of my head, every concept of structure is essentially the same thing with different bells and whistles. 3-act, 4-act, 7-act, Hero's Journey, and whatever other theories... hell, I was reading some guy's ideas on "story structure" a while back and it was really interesting how he dressed it up but it was like reading a Stephen King novel, once I got so far it was smirk and put it down. Story structure is invaluable, so it's fine to read everybody's take on the same thing... but in the end, it is in its essence the same basic thing. Brandon Sanderson doesn't seem to think of his books as 3 act, as I recall, but... of what I know, yeah, they are.



That's not strictly true, but it's fairly true . . . it depends on how strict you take the format (some of them go down to the word count), and how many linguistic gymnastics you want to employ in fitting them together.  I don't personally consider that angle of the discussion to be very useful.

If I were to have an "issue" with any of the structures, it wouldn't be that they're "wrong," but that most of them aren't designed from the perspective of the writer.  Just for example, I think it would be fair for a writer to use the looser seven-point structure on the first draft, and play the details in between those points like jazz, but handle the second draft under a stricter 3-Act plot, where you can tackle the details with a warm iron.  The 3-Act structure by itself only looks at the final product and doesn't explore the process of developing it behind the scenes.

Many people don't like the tighter structures _for a valid - if personal - reason_, and I don't think the solution to these questions is to fight about it.  The solution is to identify the underlying value of story structure, and to find a way to develop that value while respecting the variety of ways in which people write.

As a writer, how can develop a solid structure _within a process that works for me._  In that regard, I think we need less strict analysis, and more of an open sharing of best practices.

None of that, again, is to mitigate the importance of _understanding_ the basic structures, which is invaluable for a great many reasons.


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## Devor (Dec 26, 2016)

Also, my interpretation of _premise_ is pretty much what Des talked about, a brief description of the conflict.  While plot is about the way that conflict changes or worsens at specific points in the story.

I contrast that with _concept_ which I use as the same idea from the character's perspective.

That difference might just be in my head.


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## FifthView (Dec 26, 2016)

Demesnedenoir said:


> A short look at premise vs plot, how I look at it anyhow. The premise tends to be very simple: A shark terrorizes a resort community = Jaws, and of course you could throw in details like: and local law enforcement and a shark expert attempt to destroy the bloodthirsty beast. Clearly, the plot is much more.  I will use the book I'm editing now.
> 
> The premise might be: On a northern island secular clans attempt to stifle a rising conflict with the church, but even as they survive the threats of demonic genocide and holy war, they fail to realize they've lost the real battle.
> 
> Some folks will start with a premise and build up, others will start with plot and narrow it down... one could almost call the premise a logline.



I think that having a premise statement can be good for holding the whole thing together as plot is developed and executed—i.e., for preventing drift.  It can serve as a guide; _Does this thing I'm now adding to the story serve the premise statement?_ It can help to concretize the theme.*

Your examples are good, particularly the example you gave for the book you are editing. 

I do believe that the premise statement for _Jaws_ requires some of those other details.  "A shark terrorizes a resort community" is not enough because it doesn't provide any direction for how the conflict plays out.  I.e., it could end up being more like the _Friday the 13th_ movies, except instead of Jason killing the group of friends one by one by two, a shark is doing this while prowling the waters off the coast.  The movie ends when all the friends are dead.  (Well, maybe one survives but ends up in a mental ward.  She'll return for the sequel.) Maybe hysteria sets in and people start killing each other.  The government comes in and fences off the coast.  We end up in Fortress America because it turns out that the shark is a demonic fish, one of many that have begun infesting our coastal waters, that have slipped through from another dimension and only appear to be a sharks.  OR......Could go in so many directions when starting with a vague, too-broad premise statement.

This is also why a premise statement shouldn't be too vague.  "A fearsome beast terrorizes a town" as a premise statement could be Jaws or Beowulf or any number of stories, each of which is quite different from the others.

_*Edit:_  "Concretize the theme" sounds like such a silly phrase.  I see the premise statement as being a distillation of a story into its key features or elements.  So it touches on the overall arc of the story, theme, players, conflict, etc., but written as simply as possible.  I think it's more than a log line, more than a simple summary, but....Hah, hard to write sometimes because it needs to encompass so much with a small number of words.  Its purpose for the writing process is to serve as a guide, for keeping the heart of the story close by as we write.


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## Heliotrope (Dec 26, 2016)

FifthView was bang on, but I'll try to add some more clarity because premise is a tricky subject. 

Premise, like FifthView pointed out is the "heart of the story". The point. The over arching climax. It is an exercise that helps  you pinpoint before you have written a word "what is it?" "What is this story?" 

It is usually a single sentence and a few things NEED to be covered in that sentence. Another way I have heard it put is "a concept with a kicker" and I think that is a really good phrase. 

A few years ago when I was working on my first novel people would ask "So what is your story about?" 

It would sometimes take me forty-five minutes to answer that question. Before I could get into the actual plot I had to give a half hour of back story. History. World building. Then I would give them a confusing play by play of the plot itself. Cool moments (well, I thought they were cool), cool character arcs etc. Their eyes would glaze over. They would soon change the subject. They would never ask me again. 

Then I started learning about premise and the fact that, well... I didn't have one. 

This is all from Save The Cat, but I think it explains it really well: 

You and your friends have decided to see a movie (or read a new book). 

One if you is picked to read the choices from the newspaper (or the New York Times bestsellers list) while the others listen and decide. 

Congratulations, you have now had the experience of "pitching" a movie or a book. And just like the pros, you have been faced with the same problem. Yes, the film stars George Clooney, sure it's got amazing special effects or course Ebert and Roeper give it two thumbs up... (or it has a great magic system, it has dragons, and GRRM wrote an amazing blurb on the cover)... 

_But what is it about?_

If you can't answer that question, you know it pretty quickly. If what the movie (or book) is about isn't clear from the cover and the title, what are you going to say to describe it? Usually, what you are left with, standing there, newspaper in hand, is telling your friends everything the movie is _not._ What you heard. What People Magazine said. Some cockeyed-retelling of the plot that the star revealed on Letterman. And odds are that at the end of that rather feeble explanation, your friends will say what filmmakers everywhere fear most: "What else is playing?" 

"What is it?" Is the name of the game. 

I want you to forget all about your screenplay (or novel) for now, the cool scenes that are bursting forth in your imagination. Forget all that. 

And concentrate on writing one sentence. One line. 

Because if you can learn to tell me "What is it?" better, faster, and with more creativity, you'll keep me interested. And incidentally, by doing so before you start writing your script, you'll make the story better too. 

Ok, so that is all about script writing, but it goes for story writing as well. Cool back story is not story. Cool magic systems are not story. Your story _is_ it's premise. And if you have a boring or generic premise then no amount of fancy special effects can save it. 

So let's get into what makes for a great premise. 

*Irony or "The Kicker"*

The irony or the "kicker" is your hook. 

"A businessman falls in love with a hooker when he hires her to be his date for the weekend." 
"A hobbit must deliver a ring of power to its place of creation in order to save the world." 

Irony is "the unexpected". Opposites coming together. Would Lord of the Rings have been as interesting or compelling if Frodo had been a battle hardened hero who could simply walk into Mordor, slashing at Orcs as he went? Where is the story in that? 

A good premise must be emotionally intriguing, like in itch you _have_ to scratch. 

"A risk-averse teacher plans on marrying his dream girl but must first accompany his overprotective future brother-in-law - A cop - on a ride-along from hell." 

Opposites. Inherent tension. Irony. 

In identifying the ironic elements of the story and putting them into a premise you may discover you don't have any. Well, if you don't then there may not be something wrong with the premise, maybe the story is off too. It may be time to go back and rethink it. 

*Compelling Mental Picture*

You have to be able to show the whole story in the premise. A great premise will bloom in your brain. You see the story or at least the potential for it. But this is also where you show what TYPE of story it is. Is it comedy? Drama? Epic? A heist?  

This is where you have to decide what your focus is. For example, if I say: 

"A control-obsessed con woman reluctantly works one last job with a reckless new recruit, and learns that when it comes to matters of the heart, not everything can be planned." 

Or, 

"A con woman desperate to escape the criminal underbelly reluctantly works one last job and soon learns that the outside world may be more corrupt than the criminal life she had known." 

They may both be the same story, but one is obviously romance, and the other is obviously about her coming to terms with her "criminal family" and where she belongs. 

So a good premise tells you where the focus of the story is. What the character arc will be.

So now, when someone asks "What is your story about?" I respond with: 

"A neurotic honors student and a time travelling pirate orchestrate a treasure heist and learn that there are more important treasures than gold." 

Bam. 

Examples: 

http://www.nytimes.com/books/best-sellers/?_r=0


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## Heliotrope (Dec 26, 2016)

The core conflict in Jaws (since that was the example used) is, of course, the shark. But the "kicker"... what takes it to the next level, the "irony" is the three guys who go after the shark. 

"A small town cop, a marine researcher and a vengeful sailor work together to stop a man-eating shark from destroying a small beach town that relies on tourism to stay alive." 

Note that NONE of them are fishermen, which would have been too obvious. There is the irony of the vengeful sailer (whose entire ship was eaten by sharks in Japan in WW2) having to work with a hippy dippy marine researcher who wants to p_rotect_ the shark. And the cop is a small town guy with little experience in shark hunting. 

A good premise will show Irony, Mental picture, but also stakes.

I don't start a story until I have a decent premise. I've been burned too many times where I got a great "concept".... 

Oh, some guys have to kill a shark that keeps eating people on the beach! 

But then I get halfway through and realize it is boring, or I have gone on too many tangents, or I have no inherent irony, or I made it too easy or obvious (well, obviously it would HAVE to be shark hunter as the MC right?) and at the end of all that work I didn't have a "story" at all.


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## Chessie (Dec 26, 2016)

I have a very hard time with irony. It's a heavily covered point in D.H. Costa's Sizzling Outlines, which is one of the most helpful craft books I've read. I've begun to understand it a little better since...and although irony itself is clear as day, the concept of adding it to story is a bit tricky. Like, with my historical romance (sorry I talk so much about it lol but it's my WIP so...) it took me some time to figure out the irony. Here, we have a widow who has closed herself off to love and relationships in general (no friends either) and she meets a friend of her brother's who just got out of a relationship but is working hard to forget about it by trying to woo the widow. So, on one side we have someone who is fearful of loving again, and on the other hand is someone who is eager to try again.

Weird, huh? But it was the only ironic thing that made me feel excited. All the other options were boring...but I'm not even sure how ironic it is to begin with. Anyway, all of this is so complex it makes my head hurt just thinking about it. **goes back to reading**


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## Chessie (Dec 26, 2016)

Heliotrope said:


> A good premise will show Irony, Mental picture, but also stakes.



This I'm framing. It's seriously helpful. Thank you.


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## Heliotrope (Dec 26, 2016)

Yeah, it is hard to pinpoint and hard to make it interesting without being cliche, which is why, IMO, it's important to plan a story before you start writing, and honing in on a premise is a good way to do that. 

I love putting opposites together, so in my WIP I have a neurotic honors student who is very "results" focussed. She is dedicated to perfectionism and cares a lot about how her work is a reflection of herself. The pirate is the opposite. Seat of his pants, lazy. 

However, from him she learns about how to adapt, how to accept her own flaws, how to appreciate others, how to let things go, etc, and from her he learns how to fight harder for what he wants, how to take ownership over his own choices, and how to push himself to follow through. 

As soon as I have that figured out then I basically have my story. 

I love really obvious examples of this sort of structure, like "Along Came Polly," with Ben Stiller, so where mine is not _that_ obvious, I think it's a good example of inherent irony. 

But other types include taking someone most obviously NOT suited for a job and forcing them to do that job (like Frodo delivering the ring), or a twelve-year-old boy from England the only person who can defeat an evil Overlord Wizard.

But then there are other types as well. Types that could be considered "twists"... like maybe a guy is given a job with a secret company for a million dollar pay under the expectation he will have his brain wiped after the job is finished... but when he wakes up after the job he finds he refused the money and instead left himself a package of "clues"...  

Or Jack Reacher finds a PI searching for him and the PI winds up dead... 

Or a con woman poses as a missing heiress in order to collect a ransom but the ransom ends up being death... 

Those sorts of premises are also highly ironic because they are "opposites". The opposite result of what you would expect, so they become inherently interesting. A hook.


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## Heliotrope (Dec 26, 2016)

And last point (lol) the wider you make the "irony" gap, the more comedic or tragic you make your story. 

Example: 

*Gladiator*

A renowned army commander, revered by Ceaser as more worthy than his own son, is forced to fight for his life as a Gladiator slave.  (Note the massive gap between being a highly revered military commander, almost chosen by Ceaser himself to rule Rome, having to fight for scraps in the colosseum as entertainment. If he had already been a slave it wouldn't have been as interesting or tragic. What makes it so tragic is how far he had to fall). 

But you can do the same thing to write a comedy. 

*Legally Blonde*

"A dumb blonde bombshell tries to prove her worth by getting her degree at Harvard Law."

Tragedy is almost always a huge fall while comedy is almost always a huge rise in status.


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## FifthView (Dec 27, 2016)

Heliotrope said:


> *Compelling Mental Picture*
> 
> You have to be able to show the whole story in the premise. A great premise will bloom in your brain. You see the story or at least the potential for it. But this is also where you show what TYPE of story it is. Is it comedy? Drama? Epic? A heist?
> 
> ...



I just wanted to say this is a great example, and that _focus_ is one of the ways that a premise statement can serve as a great guide when writing.

Whether a story will be told as a romance or type of character story (a la the MICE quotient) will make a great difference in the types of scenes that might be included, the particular plotting elements and their order chosen for the story, and even at the granular level for _how_ the scenes will be written.

When considering a premise statement before beginning to write the story, the things included in the premise statement will receive focus over other things because they are key to the premise of the whole story.  This focus will often take form as a continual reappearance of elements from the premise.  

So for instance, if the above story is a romance, then the scene of the two characters scoping out a target and discussing a best approach will have somewhat different dialogue (in the way they speak to each other) than would be the case if the story is a character story about the MC wanting to escape the criminal underworld.  When these characters are observing each other during the conversation (say, the story is written in third omniscient) or when one observes the other (third intimate POV), the things observed and the corresponding thoughts will be different if it's a romance tale.

If the con woman is "control-obsessed," as in the romance version of the story, this aspect of her personality will reappear in many contexts and be suggested in multiple ways because we'll need to show that she is control-obsessed–_and keep that aspect of her character in the mind of the reader_ as he reads.  We also might need to create a specific scene or two, or specially design an already planned scene, to show the scope of this personality trait. 

I would note that in the second story, about her wanting to escape a life in the underworld, she can still have elements of that personality trait.  But it's not going to receive the same kind of focus.  The story won't turn as much on this trait.

Another example from your premise statement for Jaws:



Heliotrope said:


> "A small town cop, a marine researcher and a vengeful sailor work together to stop a man-eating shark from destroying a small beach town that relies on tourism to stay alive."



So let's suppose the story Jaws didn't already exist and we are wanting to write it for the first time, starting with this premise statement.

Because we know that the setting is "a small beach town that relies on tourism to stay alive," and that this is important for the story, we would want to plan scenes that reinforce this and keep it in mind.  So there would be scenes of tourists arriving, tourists on the beach, discussions with the mayor about keeping the beaches open and about the economic impact of tourism on the town.  As in the movie, we might plan to have a scene of a town hall meeting where various business people are freaking out.  Even if a given scene isn't _about_ tourists arriving, we can include arriving tourists in the background of a scene or in the details of a scene–perhaps an increase in traffic on the streets causes the MC to have problems getting to city hall.  Or there's a road rage incident between tourists.  Or the MC overhears a conversation about rude customers in a local shop, customers who are tourists.

In the movie, the "small town cop" aspect is reinforced in multiple ways.  I do think there's more to Brody than that, however.  This is his first summer as sheriff of the town.  He had a near drowning incident when young, so he's leery or afraid of water.  Yes, he has no experience with sharks, including hunting them.  Altogether, he's, hah, "a fish out of water" or "out of his depth."  (Couldn't resist.) This info isn't dumped all at once in a short conversation and then forgotten; it's reinforced throughout, in various ways.


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## Chessie (Dec 27, 2016)

I guess...what I find difficult about the premise is that I've never been able to write one before the book is finished. I do outline but it's so minimal and many things change as I draft, so I can't decide before writing the book "aha! This is my premise!" because usually I have an idea of it, but use the theme and plot to guide me to the end. Just a different way of working, I suppose. Coming up with a one-liner that sounds exciting about my stories is hard. I can't really do it. Like, I can come up with the one-liner but it's not exciting sounding. It's one of the parts of outlining that's the weakest for me but I also don't find great use in it....not like it's going to go on the blurb or anywhere I would actually need to post one. Really, I rather put my focus on learning more about plot or theme or characters or other storytelling elements vs spending time working on a frustrating one-liner. Ain't nobody got time for that. <-- that's what pops into my head and I say, "next!"


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## FifthView (Dec 27, 2016)

I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with discovering a premise, if you are a discovery writer.  Or beginning with a working premise and then, as the story develops, revising it once the key elements come into better focus.  As the premise becomes clearer, it can help in guiding the revision process, as some elements are removed (tangents in the plot, unnecessary characters) and scenes are rewritten to better serve the emerging premise.

I have a slight cringe when thinking about premise statements in terms of trying to sell a manuscript or book.  Personally, I try to think of log lines for that, or blurbs, although a great premise statement would work also.   I cringe because this puts a greater burden on the process of creating the _perfect statement_, something that will be shown to others and carry the weight of selling work product. So I prefer to think in terms of having a tool or guide for the writing process.  You don't have to worry about it being perfect, you can toy with it, and you never need to show it to someone else! 

I do have the experience, thanks to Heliotrope, of coming to realize that an idea was half-baked when trying to write a perfect premise statement for it.  This was a good realization, all-in-all, but that story has officially moved to the back burner.


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## Heliotrope (Dec 27, 2016)

I can attest to the fact that it is a challenging concept to grasp and it took me a while to really understand. FifthView is actually my 'premise buddy' lol. He worked with me on probably twenty premise statements before I settled on the one I liked best. That was twenty different possible directions for my story, in different settings, with different types of characters. It actually started out as a historical fantasy set in 1740 and involved a New Orleans plantation owner at first! Ha! 

But I'm glad I didn't settle on my first idea and I took the time to really think it out first. I actually don't think it wasted any time at all, as my brainstorming phase probably took about as much time as it takes you to write your first draft. So we just have different ways of honing on what what is important.


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## Chessie (Dec 27, 2016)

FifthView said:


> I cringe because this puts a greater burden on the process of creating the _perfect statement_, something that will be shown to others and carry the weight of selling work product.


This is it for me right here. As an Indie, I already have to write and fine tune a blurb, which is in actuality copywriting and it's far from easy. I can't tell you how many articles, books, and other authors I've gotten information from in order to write better and better blurbs but it's still like eating a whale. With a teaspoon. I like to place my focus on the important things for my brand/business: story, cover, blurb, keywords, editing, etc. There's no room for the perfect premise statement in there because ultimately it's not going to sell my books. I'm sure there are other writers who find it helpful when drafting so it's all an individual thing like anything else in this game.


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## Heliotrope (Dec 27, 2016)

Yeah, blurb is another thing I write before I start drafting.


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## Heliotrope (Dec 27, 2016)

Oh man, funny enough after we had this conversation I was reading the news and saw this youtube vid of Elf re-cut as a thriller instead of a comedy. 

Excellent example of how the same 'scenes' would be totally different under a different 'premise' lol! 






There is also Jaws as a feel good Disney movie if  you are interested 

The Top 10 Best Recut Movie Trailers | Nerdist


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Jan 5, 2017)

Heliotrope said:


> Oh man, funny enough after we had this conversation I was reading the news and saw this youtube vid of Elf re-cut as a thriller instead of a comedy.
> 
> Excellent example of how the same 'scenes' would be totally different under a different 'premise' lol!
> 
> ...



I'm DYING XD


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