# First Draft: Shorter or Longer?



## Grimbold (Dec 29, 2012)

Hello all,
I have with me a question that has been bugging me for a while.

Are first drafts normally longer than needed and need toning down, or shorter and thus need extending? OR is it a mix?

I ask because i know my chapters are about 700-1500 words shorter than they should be because i get exited and miss descriptions (also just spelt miss as mish, please forgive me) and i know i have to to go back and add things to it so i know my total word count by the time i've finished my chapters will be around 15-20k word shorter but it wont be "finished".

I know a chapter is finished when you have said everything that chapter entails to be there for but i havnt 'finished' most of my chapters.

Also i've worked out that this is my writing style, by the time the first draft is over i havnt got a complete human body i have to work out, cut its hair and style into something amazing, i normally end up with half a human body, a pile of skin and only half the organs in the right place...


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## Rullenzar (Dec 29, 2012)

This doesn't sound like a finished rough draft to me. Sounds like a work in progress. There are people out there that write parts at random but a finished rough draft isn't finished if you have half a body like you say. I'd take a look at your work and see what you missed etc..


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## Xaysai (Dec 29, 2012)

I think it depends on the writer.

My first drafts are usually ~33% longer than the finished draft because I put EVERYTHING I can think of into it as I am writing. I then go back and remove what isn't necessary, doesn't fit, or isn't relevant.


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## saellys (Dec 29, 2012)

I agree with Rullenzar--that sounds less like "style" and more like you're disorganized. I write scenes from various places in a story as well, but only when I have a detailed outline so I know exactly where the story is going, what each piece is meant to accomplish, what the characters know and don't know at that stage in the plot, and where the emotional foundation should be. If you don't know those things in advance of filling in the holes in your story, you'll end up with a lot of dead weight, and possibly continuity errors and inconsistent characterization.

As for your titular question, I find it significantly easier to cut than to pad, so I would err on the side of a first draft that's way too long. I don't follow my own advice--_Camlann_'s first (very rough, but nevertheless complete) draft was around 130,000 words, and the second will be closer to 200,000. The third draft will probably cut back, though.


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## Graylorne (Dec 29, 2012)

Perhaps I understand it wrong, but I get the impression you in your hurry write rather minimalistic, so that you need to flesh out a lot afterwards. If that's so, I wouldn't worry overmuch, as long as you know which parts have to be extended.

As long as you get the flow of ideas in your head down on paper, you can work it out later. With time and experience this should get better.


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## Anders Ã„mting (Dec 29, 2012)

Grimbold said:


> Hello all,
> I have with me a question that has been bugging me for a while.
> 
> Are first drafts normally longer than needed and need toning down, or shorter and thus need extending? OR is it a mix?



I belive the saying goes: "The second draft = the first draft - 10%"

It probably varies from writer to writer, but from what I understand, it's more common to write too much than writing too little on your first draft. The idea is that the first draft usually kinda sucks, so the second draft is where you go in and cut out all the worst parts.


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## MadMadys (Dec 29, 2012)

To answer the title question, like so many other things, it depends on the writer.

Personally, I write more than I have to, fleshing out ideas beyond probably where they need to go, because I find it is easier to then cut away the fat.  It's a little trickier to insert an idea compared to just getting another down to size.  Again, that's just how I do it.


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## T.Allen.Smith (Dec 29, 2012)

I perform many stages of revision. One, I dedicate mainly to adding descriptions to IMPORTANT details. I tend to write minimalistic so I find this helps give greater depth to the overall story. The remainder of revisions are for improving character differences, grammar & spelling, things of this nature.

During all revision stages I'm looking for things to cut. Because of this, I'd guess I cut at least twice as much as I add/change during revision.


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## JCFarnham (Dec 29, 2012)

I write significantly less in the first draft than I do in any subsequent draft. 

I'm always a statistical outlier mind you... eg, part of the 25% or so of people who sneeze when they look at a light rather than avoid it.

That's another story entirely haha


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## Penpilot (Dec 29, 2012)

I generally have a short first drafts. The second drafts things get bloated, sometimes doubling in word count. Third drafts are where I put the story on a workout program, turning fat into muscle.


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## BWFoster78 (Dec 29, 2012)

_Power of the Mages_:

First Draft - 120k
Second Draft - 130k
Third Draft, I'm hoping to get back down to 120.


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## Grimbold (Dec 29, 2012)

I'm glad its a nice healthy mix...

I saw the first reply and the 10 year old inside me went "well what do YOU know your not ME!" and closed the tab.

Came back and was pleased to find alot of "depends on the writer."

I'm not disorganised, I have my outline, my plot, my characters and evrything like that roughly sorted... But alot of the description i've left out, or vaguely done. 
Example: I think i have only used other senses other than sight twice?

Honestly...I'm not fussed if you folk think my writing style is wrong and the first draft doesnt 'count' because it works for me. Also i tried to write that very not pasive agressive but i know it sounded that way


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## saellys (Dec 29, 2012)

By the same token, I did not mean to imply your style was wrong. From the way you worded your original post I got the impression that your first draft wasn't a complete story in that important scenes were missing, rather than detailed descriptions being absent, so I apologize for the misunderstanding.


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## Typhon (Dec 29, 2012)

Rullenzar said:


> This doesn't sound like a finished rough draft to me. Sounds like a work in progress. There are people out there that write parts at random but a finished rough draft isn't finished if you have half a body like you say. I'd take a look at your work and see what you missed etc..



Hmmmmm, ive been writing my in chapters of pieces as to not get burned out in the writing. 

As for the question, i think overall it comes down to the person, what you think and how you think your progress is and where it should be. Ultimately i think only the writer can ultimately decide what to do.


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## Addison (Dec 31, 2012)

I've been working on my WIP for a few years now. Writing a novel isn't easy. I recently made a mental list of how many versions and drafts of the story I have made. Apparently it's ten versions; different beginnings, different characters, different conflicts and somewhat different plots. As for drafts.....It's a lot more than ten I know that. I lost track after twenty. 
              My point is there's no set number of drafts to a story. You keep writing, rewriting, revising and editing until you find your story is how you want it. That said they can be short or long or medium. The length depends on the story, not the other way around.


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## Rullenzar (Dec 31, 2012)

In response to Grimold...

You made your work sound incomplete even for a rough draft and you don't seem to take criticism well unless people say what you like to hear. At least that's what I got from your second post. 

*Half a human body? I know my chapters aren't finished?* <--- Your words.

So as per your explanation of your work yes I still feel it is incomplete and therefor can't be called a rough draft. 

As people have mentioned depending on writing style most rough drafts are trimmed away rather then added too.


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## Addison (Dec 31, 2012)

No matter how many drafts you do be sure you don't delete the old ones. (If you have already don't worry. Just stop) That's because when you revise your current draft you could find you took away something that actually worked or there's something in the old draft which could work in a different place in your newer draft.


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## Steerpike (Dec 31, 2012)

JCFarnham said:


> I write significantly less in the first draft than I do in any subsequent draft.



I'm the same way. When I go back and do a revision, I typically add to the text. For short stories, I try to revise as little as possible, but invariably it needs a little bit.


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## Addison (Dec 31, 2012)

Stories can be like research. It's either over done or under done. You need to be some place in the middle.


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## Ghost (Jan 2, 2013)

Grimbold said:


> Are first drafts normally longer than needed and need toning down, or shorter and thus need extending? OR is it a mix?



It depends on the author and the work. Most writers seem to write too much in their first drafts, but some authors write less than they need. Stephen Koch says that 1 in 50 will write too little. This blog post by Emma Darwin talks about adders and cutters. I relate to the description in this post by Dylan Charles.

My first draft is skimpy unless I have a strong vision. Most of the time, I have only a vague concept. I won't know what the story is until I tell it. The first draft is thin. I add too much. I cut too much. I add again. Balance is a skill I don't have yet. With experience, I hope my process becomes streamlined as I learn how to convey what I intended–no more, no less.



Grimbold said:


> Also i've worked out that this is my writing style, by the time the first draft is over i havnt got a complete human body i have to work out, cut its hair and style into something amazing, i normally end up with half a human body, a pile of skin and only half the organs in the right place...



I compare it to building. Me, I might make the foundation, add the frames and doors, put up the walls and a roof–only to realize I forgot flooring, plumbing, electricity, separation of rooms, windows, insulation...it's ridiculous. Sure, it works as a basic shelter, but it's just a shell. I add and rearrange after I see what kind of building it is and who will use it.


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## TheDarkFrontier (Jan 4, 2013)

Usually first drafts are longer and then the edits cut stuff out, but I think in some cases its actually the author's decision to cut something out that is final. If they think its necessary for the story then it stays in. Sometimes it can be the other way around, the editor may say something like; "Oh, I like that bit, I think you could expand on that, make it more descriptive". So it can be the other way too. Editing is a two way process, the same as most things. As an example, in my media class in my college, once we'd come up with a plan and a storyboard for a music video, our tutors suggested adding some shots, as opposed to removing, to improve the final product.


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