# Spoiler-Fest: Game of Thrones S6



## Legendary Sidekick

Love it, hate it, spoil it for others!

Only read this thread if any two of the following apply to you:
(a) I've read all the books.
(b) I've seen all the shows.
(c) I don't care about book spoilers.
(d) I don't care about show spoilers.

That's the prerequisite for reading. Here are my rules for posting:

#1 - Only discuss a Season 6 episode after its Sunday showing.
#2 - Be respectful to other MS members.
#3 - Don't use spoiler tags.

That's it. Rule #2 is something I threw in because, in my opinion, Season 4 was awesome and Season 5 was 50% crap. I don't know if people are still psyched about this show or if it already jumped the shark. I do know feelings are mixed, so I just wanna say that regardless of what you think of the show, your opinion is welcome.


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## MineOwnKing

I'm psyched. 

Can we talk about the rumors?


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## Legendary Sidekick

I don't see why not. Yeah, go for it!


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## MineOwnKing

I enjoyed all 5 seasons, pumped for the 6th. 

I enjoyed it more the second time around having just watched all episodes again. 

I've started the books but never seem to get very far. Sorry...I'm late to the game, I'll get there eventually. 

One of things I can say about viewing it versus reading it was the relief I felt when Jon Snow died. I didn't like his character at all. I found it hard to sympathize or care about him. Maybe in the books he's more likable? I'm certainly not interested in his looks which they go on and on about. ??

But now I hear rumors he will come back, and be revealed as the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. Wouldn't he have white hair and not black if that were true? 

Any predictions on this?


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## Legendary Sidekick

I heard the rumors, and the theory of who he is is a sound one supported in the books. (So others have said—I won't claim to be so observant.) I don't think he's permanently dead, seeing that other characters have survived death. The fact that his corpse is featured so prominently in S6 trailers seems to hint he's going to return from the dead.


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## T.Allen.Smith

He'll be resurrected by Melisandre, the red woman. His death, however, will release him from his oath to the Night's Watch.

That's the only reason the story of Baeric Dondarion & Thoros of Myr was included. Thoros is also a priest of the God of light, like Melisandre. Thoros resurrected many people. We should expect the same from Melisandre. 



MineOwnKing said:


> ...But now I hear rumors he will come back, and be revealed as the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. Wouldn't he have white hair and not black if that were true?



He's also half Stark.  

Martin has said that some fans might've figured out the ending twists already, a danger of his slow writing process. 

I'd say this is all rather likely. We'll see.  

The thing that makes me wonder....  
The Targareyens were all dragon riders. There are three dragons now. If one is for Dany & one for Jon, who rides the third?


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## MineOwnKing

T.Allen.Smith said:


> The thing that makes me wonder....
> The Targareyens were all dragon riders. There are three dragons now. If one is for Dany & one for Jon, who rides the third?



The other part of the rumor is that Tyrion is the son of Aerys Targaryen and Joanna Lannister.


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## Legendary Sidekick

T.Allen.Smith said:


> The Targareyens were all dragon riders. There are three dragons now. If one is for Dany & one for Jon, who rides the third?



I thought I had this figured out before*, but I forgot.
[SUB][/SUB]_*[SUB]*[/SUB][SUP].[/SUP][SUB](in an uncertain, strictly-theoretical way that is likely to be an incorrect guess)[/SUB]*_

That's the other danger of slow writing. After a while, the reader stops giving a damn. Yes, I'll read book 6 when there is a book 6. I don't mean like "he took too long so I'm gonna rage-quit the series!" There's no malice. I'm simply not immersed in the story at the moment because there's no new material. I'm sure when book 6 is out, I'll be into it and things I forgot will come back to me.


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## ThinkerX

I'm just hoping for a giant fleet of ticked off Ironborn to drop anchor off Merleen...and maybe tangle with another fleet of slave soldiers.  But I'm probably hoping for too much.


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## MineOwnKing

One of the world building aspects I find lacking in the episodes is the non-presence of farmers working the fields on screen.

Winter is coming and yet soldiers are more worried about drinking and sharpening their swords. Daenerys conquers cities surrounded by desert. Not much food to be had there. The Warden of the North rules vast knobs of nearly frozen sod. Farms are shown abandoned due to wildling raiders.

The few farms they highlighted, were pillaged by Lanister soldiers or even The Hound. The high council talks about grain stores but nobody is shown doing any real work. 

I think it would make more sense to portray soldiers as part time farmers or fisherman like the Vikings were rather than just loafing about waiting to pick the legs off of spiders.


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## Legendary Sidekick

MineOwnKing said:


> …just loafing about waiting to pick the legs off of spiders.


I like to think that you're only seeing part of the world, but I do get what you're saying.

When they made Arya's S5 target a pedophile, I just shook my head like, of course. He did slaughter babies. I hated this, but it's not really far fetched for that evil a man. But it does get to the point where the world is so horribly dark to children on such a mass scale, you wonder how there can even be enough left to grow up and become adults.


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## MineOwnKing

Arya must be set to play an important role in future episodes. I found the faceless god a little confusing. Is it a real god or is it black magic? I got this vibe from the Lord of Light also. As if there are many false gods that are actually demons? 

I think Arya stopped being a child when Ned's head was chopped off. I wonder more about her brother Bran Stark. I didn't understand why he had to go to the giant tree. Is the tree one of the old gods? Hmm, too many questions.


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## Legendary Sidekick

There's a lot that happens in the books that doesn't happen in the show. There are little fairy-like women who live under a tree and use magic. This is where Bran ended up on the show. We saw the pixyish woman cause explosions and stuff, but Jojen Reed's death did not happen in the books. If he dies in book 6 or 7, it will happen elsewhere. Anyway, Bran Stark can do more than just see through animals. He can see across time or something, but he basically becomes part of a tree.

The other thing that didn't happen at all in the show was Arya Stark seeing through the eyes of her dire wolf. She ends up leading a small pack and this probably helps her hone her killer instinct.

I don't know what gods are good and what are evil, but the Lord of Light is the reason Caitlyn Stark is still around—only in the books. She is considered to be Lady Stoneheart, and she likes to hang people.


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## FifthView

Legendary Sidekick said:


> The other thing that didn't happen at all in the show was Arya Stark seeing through the eyes of her dire wolf. She ends up leading a small pack and this probably helps her hone her killer instinct.



When that happened in the books, I had the feeling it was leading up to some kind of massive pack being led by her around the time of the final battle with the White Walkers, or some other battle.  In the books, the growing pack, roaming the wild, was mentioned a time or two during narrative focused on Westeros.


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## Legendary Sidekick

I never really ask why—I just like the scenes. But yeah, that makes sense. I wonder how that will play out on the show, since Arya's pack never came up.

Speaking of predictions, I can see by your avatar you already predict Luffy will sit on the Iron Throne.
My sources say otherwise.


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## Legendary Sidekick

I guess it's starting now. Enjoy! I'll catch the 11:00 or 11:30 showing, and will turn on HBO at 10:00 in case premiere night has a 10:00 or 10:30 show.


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## Peat

Legendary Sidekick said:


> I thought I had this figured out before*, but I forgot.
> [SUB][/SUB]_*[SUB]*[/SUB][SUP].[/SUP][SUB](in an uncertain, strictly-theoretical way that is likely to be an incorrect guess)[/SUB]*_
> 
> That's the other danger of slow writing. After a while, the reader stops giving a damn. Yes, I'll read book 6 when there is a book 6. I don't mean like "he took too long so I'm gonna rage-quit the series!" There's no malice. I'm simply not immersed in the story at the moment because there's no new material. I'm sure when book 6 is out, I'll be into it and things I forgot will come back to me.



Truth. Except I'm not sure I'll read book 6. After all, I'll know how Martin originally intended the story to end by then and I'm no longer so invested in the world that I want to read every word. And as I'm not watching the show either, I'll be eagerly following this thread to find out what happens


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## FifthView

The Melisandre reveal was satisfying and more.  This was the first time I felt a solidness to the magic in GRRM's world.  There are of course other examples of magical events and effects, but they have seemed hazy, abstract, vague in comparison. M.'s reveal brought home the reality of the depth and power of magic in that world for me.


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## Reilith

This new episode was quite weak - only a handful of moments made it interesting. I know GoT tends to start by resolving cliff-hangers from previous seasons, but this was mostly unsatisfying and bleak. Bright moments were the Melisandre's reveal, Sansa's scene and the Dorne. Daenerys has become utterly boring - I was kinda happy with the outcome of her scene. I was disappointed in the lack of Tyrion. He is the sole reason I am still watching this show. He and the drama at King's Landing.


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## SeverinR

MineOwnKing said:


> The other part of the rumor is that Tyrion is the son of Aerys Targaryen and Joanna Lannister.


 if both rumors are true...Tyrion and John Snow would be half brothers.  Isn't it rumored that Ned took John as his, when he was really Ned's sister's and Aerys Targaryen?

Hmm, no posts from the first episode?  Not that good or is everyone just busy?


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## Legendary Sidekick

I honestly just don't know what to say of it. My wife made me laugh when the Red Woman disrobed. She said, "How come she doesn't wear underpants?"

She and I both enjoyed Brienne's scene. My thing about departures from the book: if it strengthens the story, I'm for it. I hated seeing Sanda marry the Bolton bastard, but I'll admit, as the reader/viewer, you do care more about Sansa Stark than you do Jayne Poole. It SUCKS to see Sansa lose her virginity to a sadistic abuser, but you do feel more satisfaction in seeing her escape that and many men dying as Brienne prevents them from taking Sansa back. It's a much better plotline for Brienne than the one in the book.

The Sand Snakes are sexy killers. You know it won't end well for them.

Looking forward to The Wall, where those loyal to Jon will avenge him and preserve his corpse (which we can all expect will have life again in Season 7).


Overall, I liked it.


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## MineOwnKing

Having just watched the previous seasons again, I now noticed some big changes in S6.

Something is different about the dialogue. It felt flat to me, kinda blah. The vocal expressions are very toned down. Where as in previous seasons the dialogue came across as very theatrical, which I grew to like.

Almost every character has stepped out of character, speaking differently, behaving differently. Many look genuinely haggard.

Something has changed. I did enjoy the show and of course am dying to see more. Good or bad I'll probably love it either way.

I will say that I have also just begun watching Vikings season 4. I find it much more interesting and engaging than S6 so far.


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## Ben

I'm wondering how long they'll drag out Jon's resurrection.  I'll they keep him on ice all season?

The episode felt hit or miss to me -- some characters, like Tyrion and Danny -- we basically checked in on with no plot movement.

Dorne was obviously the opposite.  Really did not see that coming.  Liked the book storyline better -- didn't seem like that's where the book is headed but maybe Arianne turns out to be ruthless.

Like the entire internet, was bewildered by how sand snakes teleported to King's Landing to kill Trystane.


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## FifthView

Ben said:


> Like the entire internet, was bewildered by how sand snakes teleported to King's Landing to kill Trystane.



I've only been able to rationalize it by thinking that maybe they hopped on a ship a day or two after their quarry left, although this was never shown.

I don't have as negative an opinion on the various things in the premier episode of S6 as other have apparently had.  It was a typical reconnecting-with-the-various-plot-threads I somewhat expected.

But if they keep Jon on ice for most of the season, I'll be very upset unless other things are good enough to distract me from that.  I actually fully expect his resurrection to happen this week on episode 2.  Hope so, at least.

This morning I read an interview with the actor who plays Bran, and it's raised my excitement for this season even more:  'Game of Thrones' star on Bran's return: 'He's like Doctor Who!' | EW.com


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## MineOwnKing

Is sand snakes a reference from the book?

It took me a while to figure out what you guys were talking about. I imagined magic snakes made of sand for a moment.

How did I miss that scene?


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## Ben

Oops I re read my post and it sounds like I was down on the first ep -- actually did not mean to give that impression, I liked it overall, I guess I subconsciously compare it to the great eps of the series.  Yes, it's probably mandatory to do the check in scenes with everyone. 

The bro-ish Khal and his Bro-riders were pretty amusing.

I thought they are called Sand Snakes one the show too?  Oberyn's bastard daughters -- in Dorne noble bastards get the surname Sand (like Northmen get Snow).  Snakes I guess because Oberyn liked using poison?


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## MineOwnKing

Okay, 

I guess I missed that detail about the sand snakes. Gives me a good excuse to watch it again. 

Now that I've started reading Book 1, I'm enjoying it more having watched the shows.

I think the first time I started reading it I was bored by all the titles, but I like it now. It's interesting to see the characters through Martin's eyes too.

I never imagined Ned Stark being only 35 years old. I had a retired Boromir stuck in my head.


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## DeathtoTrite

That first show was probably one of the worst thus far. I like it when they kill important characters. It keeps us honest. The Sand Snakes killing Doran and his son was just beyond stupid though. For one thing, the books show Doran is way, way smarter than the Sand Snakes. For another, there is absolutely no way this doesn't end HORRIBLY for Dorne. They're the smallest, weakest kingdom. Just the whole thing felt like someones bad fanfiction of Game of Thrones seeking wish fulfillment. It makes no sense. Absolutely none. I hope the Sand Snakes get caught by Ramsey.


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## T.Allen.Smith

DeathtoTrite said:


> For one thing, the books show Doran is way, way smarter than the Sand Snakes.


Yes. I agree. I remember liking his character a great deal because his intelligence made up for his infirmity. 

His bodyguard (large ax in the books, massive pole arm in the show) was also a more than competent warrior. The sand snakes killed him far too easily.


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## Legendary Sidekick

Defeated by a knife. That was a WTF for me. Yeah, the Sand Snakes are a weak plot line. They look sexy, they kill. They're eye candy villains who will likely die horribly, and I'm not sure how the viewer's supposed to feel when their arc comes to its inevitable conclusion.


Edit - I realize all GoT characters can be described as "_____ who will likely die horribly."


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## Reilith

I've noticed that a lot of characters in the show die from "unsuspecting" knives. It's become a little stale.

On the other hand - watched EP 2 and boy oh boy was it a festival or what?? Also, I simply CAN'T force myself to like Ramsey - he is the full incarnation of GRRM's writing - shock value that has become boring and obvious. Props for not expecting how he dealt with his father. Also, Tyrion's scene was amazing and tense - in a good way. And the ending.... It was a good build-up, wasn't forced and it made me want to see it happen!

Overall - much much better than the previous episode.

Also, Dani not being present in this one is a big plus for me. Her storyline in the show is boring and useless.


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## FifthView

I thought the ending of Ep. 2 was a little lackluster.

But then, I'd been expecting since the end of the previous season a resurrection by fire, so a mirroring of Daenerys' emergence from the bonfire and a combo Lord of Light + Targaryen climax.  When it was mentioned on the show that they'd get a fire ready for his body, that was a fake out for me, although even then I wasn't sure.  But I suppose they don't want to reveal the Targaryen connection to Jon yet.


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## Legendary Sidekick

I didn't see the Bolton betrayal coming. The mother and baby slaughter… well, yeah.

They should have melted down knives to make the iron throne. Knives are so effective, I don't know why the pissing guy didn't just stab Ser Robert Strong. The knife would go through his armor and insta-kill the eight foot zombie.

I was kind of laughing at the way everyone dissed the red woman. "Geez, lady, it's been over a minute—almost TWO—and he's still dead. You SUCK. I… I don't even wanna talk to you. I'm just gonna turn my back and leave. You're a nothing. A NOTHING!"

Then after everyone walks out, she's like, "Yeah, I am a nothing. Three minutes. Yeah, I guess I don't have the power, or Jon'd be tap-dancing by now. I do suck. I am a nothing, but even a nothing has better things to do than stand here for a fourth minute. I'm gonna go lie naked in bed, in my true form in case someone walks in on me."

Then the dog's like, "She's a nothing. I'd leave too, but I'm a dog so I can't open the door. Why'd that nothing have to close the door behind her? She does suck."

Then Jon wakes up, and I'm like, "Yeah, you better not make me wait another episode to find out I was right since I first read that part in the book. Oh… YAAAAAAY!"


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## Ben

Reilith said:


> Also, Dani not being present in this one is a big plus for me. Her storyline in the show is boring and useless.



I know right? I used to be down with the Special K but her storyline moves at the rate of tectonic plates and fingernail growth.


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## Ben

Legendary Sidekick nailed it.  It didn't hit me at the time, but yeah, how long do you wait to see if a raise dead spell works? Even JC took two days


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## Lunaairis

I knew Jon coming back wouldn't be in the first episode. I was actually expecting them to do it in the second last or the last episode of the season- to make for a big finale. 

Tyrion freeing the dragons was a pretty amazing scene. I thought Peter did a great job conveying that story. 

I'm pretty happy with the season so far. I think they are off on a solid start. I wonder where they will take the story now that they have no more books to go off of.


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## Legendary Sidekick

Ben said:


> Legendary Sidekick nailed it.  It didn't hit me at the time, but yeah, how long do you wait to see if a raise dead spell works? Even JC took two days


I was polite enough to keep my mouth shut until credit roll. I told my wife, "I know this is TV so everything needs to take less than a minute, but she's trying to raise a guy from the dead, and she's never done it before." Can't they give her more than a minute or two to succeed? I'd think bringing someone back from the dead within an hour is not bad for the first time.

That said, I can make the jokes and still enjoy the show. Tyrion freeing the dragons was awesome, and Arya and Brienne/Sansa is working for me. I forgot kingsmoot didn't happen in the show yet, so the Greyjoy plot might be fun. Robert Strong makes me kinda like Cersei. I look forward to her minion causing some carnage.


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## Reilith

I just don't think it was the Red Woman alone raising him from the dead - the others had more will in them, maybe the gods answered in unison?

Sent from my HTC Desire 820 using Tapatalk


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## MineOwnKing

I'd say we have our proof that Tyrion Lannister is actually Tyrion Targaryen.

I'm still confident that Daenerys will inspire viewers as her dragons defeat the white walkers. I mean, that's the whole point of building her up, right? I will say that her character was more interesting when interacting with Ser Jorah Mormont. I really enjoy watching Iain Glen play the part. 

I found the part where Ser Davos Seaworth begged Melisandre to bring Jon Snow back to life a real stretch. They have always hated each other, Jon was clearly dead. There was no reason to bring him back nor for Ser Davos to consider asking. It made no sense.

It's still not clear what Bran Stark is up to. I feel there should be more explained about the tree and Bran's purpose there. He could have stayed home and had visions rather than trek all the way up north in the freezing cold.

It's getting better but the dialogue is lacking. Tyrion needs more air time. He is the star with the most magnetism.


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## Ben

MineOwnKing said:


> I found the part where Ser Davos Seaworth begged Melisandre to bring Jon Snow back to life a real stretch. They have always hated each other, Jon was clearly dead. There was no reason to bring him back nor for Ser Davos to consider asking. It made no sense.
> 
> It's still not clear what Bran Stark is up to. I feel there should be more explained about the tree and Bran's purpose there. He could have stayed home and had visions rather than trek all the way up north in the freezing cold.
> .



I kept asking myself if he had ever seen a red priest raise someone from the dead, otherwise seems like a random request, even if you had seen them do ****ed up shit before.  

I don't mind Bran's story.  I got the impression from the books he was going to end up part of the local flora so I was surprised them mentioning he would need help when he leaves.  Surely he's got some role to play. I'm a little more interested in the three eyes Raven since I recently read the dunk and egg novellas and found out his background.

Like Legendary, I enjoy making jokes about the stuff but I'm all in, still loving the show


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## MineOwnKing

Ben said:


> Like Legendary, I enjoy making jokes about the stuff but I'm all in, still loving the show



If you need a good laugh, try watching the epic rap battle between Martin and Tolkien. Funny!


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## FifthView

The interview with the actor who plays Bran included the hint that Bran can affect things wherever his visions take him.  When I read that, I thought it meant past, present and future–wherever he goes.  "Now he’s starting to make use of the visions and starting to discover he can interact with the past."

Had I never read that, I wouldn't be thinking that he somehow saved Jon when Jon was just a babe....or that we'll discover in Ep. 3 that Bran actually interceded to lead Jon's spirit back to his body for his resurrection....or whatever.  Wild speculation.


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## T.Allen.Smith

Ben said:


> I kept asking myself if he had ever seen a red priest raise someone from the dead, otherwise seems like a random request, even if you had seen them do ****ed up shit before.



Thoros of Myr (flaming sword) resurrected Baeric Dondarrion multiple times. We actually witness the act after The Hound kills Baeric in a duel. Thoros is a priest of the Lord of Light, same as Melisandre.

I agree though, it should have been a stronger connection to Davos. His knowledge of the ability came out of left field.


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## Legendary Sidekick

I felt like bringing Jon back _had to happen_, and the writers didn't really do much to build up the reveal. I don't feel it's necessary to though. I poke fun, but I can't say I'd have a better way.

It's not like Ned's decapitation—"GASP! No one is safe!" Jon's death was, "Bah, HE'S safe." As is Tyrion and Dany. Brienne may be doomed, though I hope not. The Stark girls will live, and the remaining boys. I didn't think Tommen was doomed, but with his sister dead… yup. Doomed.

Anyway, the reveal was good to get out of the way, not drag out the most unsurprising reveal in a series known for surprises. What Jon does next has potential to surprise.

I mean aside from being freed from his oath. _That_ reveal should be a thirty second scene with Jon and his loyal bros having a beer.

GUY: "So, freed from your oath, right?"
JON: "Yeah. I died, so… technicality."
GUY: "You should find a woman. First thing I'd do, post-res."
JON: "I found one. And how'd that work out for me?"
GUY: "Dude. Plenty of fish."
(both take a swig)


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## FifthView

Legendary Sidekick said:


> GUY: "So, freed from your oath, right?"
> JON: "Yeah. I died, so… technicality."
> GUY: "You should find a woman. First thing I'd do, post-res."
> JON: "I found one. And how'd that work out for me?"
> GUY: "Dude. Plenty of fish."
> (both take a swig)



GUY: "Hey, you know that Melisandre isn't bad to look at!"
JON: "You know, not bad at all.  Not bad at all...."


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## T.Allen.Smith

FifthView said:


> GUY: "Hey, you know that Melisandre isn't bad to look at!" JON: "You know, not bad at all.  Not bad at all...."



Jon walks in as Melisandre takes the illusion necklace off & retreats to the dining hall for stronger drink.


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## Legendary Sidekick

No drink is that strong.


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## T.Allen.Smith

Legendary Sidekick said:


> No drink is that strong.


Truth.

Poor Stannis would've begged Brienne to kill him if he'd known what he did. 

/shudder


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## Lunaairis

See I think Ser davo's asking Melisandre if she can raise the dead is fine. Take it from the perspective that he's seen her make an assassin shadow baby. That's some pretty crazy magic.  Raising the dead doesn't seem like all that far a feat to jump to.


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## Ben

Legendary Sidekick said:


> It's not like Ned's decapitation—"GASP! No one is safe!" Jon's death was, "Bah, HE'S safe." As is Tyrion and Dany. Brienne may be doomed, though I hope not. The Stark girls will live, and the remaining boys. I didn't think Tommen was doomed, but with his sister dead… yup. Doomed.



Rickon's still in play. Sansa is probably safe but if they need a real shocker for the last two seasons ....

Let's play this game: who do you WANT to get the axe?

For me, aside from Ramsay, I'd have to say Theon.  I've never liked him and his recent actions have only minimally redeemed him in my eyes.

Yarasha will be the only Greyjoy to survive.


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## Ben

MineOwnKing said:


> If you need a good laugh, try watching the epic rap battle between Martin and Tolkien. Funny!



That was funny, thanks.

I give to GRRM, on the strength of the "we don't need the backstory on every single tree branch" line


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## Legendary Sidekick

Ben said:


> Let's play this game: who do you WANT to get the axe?


*Ramsay* dies S6, ep.8-10. I mean this is my guess that he's kind of the villain you love to hate and love to see dead.

I'd like *Waldur Frey* to die. He's kinda been forgotten since Red Wedding, but with trouble in the House Bolton, maybe we'll see him and he'll die horribly. Maybe Ramsay will give the man a painful death.

And here's a non-evil I want dead: *Dario*. I just hated the romance between him and Dany. He's too cocky, and on the show he even took over a scene that made Strong Belwas awesome in the book–the single combat scene. But the book 5 scenes were what made me hate this character enough to root for the death of a good guy.


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## Lunaairis

I'm calling it now. Ramsay is going to die by Rickon warging into Ramsay's dogs and eating him alive before the end of this season. Probably episode 9, as a mic drop moment before the actual battle with the faith militia in episode 10.


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## Legendary Sidekick

I like that as the death. I'm hoping the wildling woman somehow survives this… but hope and GoT go together like milk and Pepsi.


EDIT - "Willing woman?" Really, auto-correct?


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## FifthView

I've been wondering if Rickon and Osha are plants, the Umbers are plotting, and the wolf's head was not Shaggydog but came from some random dire wolf.  This is probably a vain hope.

At this point, it's too difficult to decide who should get the gift of killing Ramsay.  I do think that the battle for Winterfell probably won't happen until episode 9 or 10; so he's probably safe until then.

I'm starting to worry that the producers will rush the ending to the series.  Next season is the last season, right?  There are so many plot threads, and this season seems mostly like the others:  a long set-up to whatever's coming next season.  The episodes of this season seem like series of snapshots bouncing all over the place.  I expected that for the first episode, but now we're past the third and it's still going on.  I'd much rather they focused on a few areas each episode, even if that means many characters are absent in an episode.


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## T.Allen.Smith

It's been a while since I've read the books, but pretty much everything we're seeing now was never actually written. 

Correct?


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## FifthView

I think that's true, although I never read the last book to be published.


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## T.Allen.Smith

FifthView said:


> I think that's true, although I never read the last book to be published.


If memory serves, the last published book ended with the murder of Jon Snow.


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## Lea

That last episode was not what I hoped it would be. I felt like, up until last night, the season had been pretty eventful, or at least tense. You had the men at the wall, wondering what was going to come of them. Dani trying to save her life. Ramsey trying to secure his place as Lord. Sansa on the run. There was so much tension in the first two episodes. Then last night? Nothing. 

The only spark of excitement for me came at the Tower. And of course, they cut it off before we could learn anything useful. Oh well. Til next week!


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## Legendary Sidekick

T.Allen.Smith said:


> It's been a while since I've read the books, but pretty much everything we're seeing now was never actually written.
> 
> Correct?


Sam and Gilly at sea and the King's Moot are in book 5 and S6, and so far, are similar to the book as far as I can tell. Yeah, the rest is all new whether due to changes or simply being book 6 material.


----------



## FifthView

Legendary Sidekick said:


> Sam and Gilly at sea and the King's Moot are in book 5 and S6, and so far, are similar to the book as far as I can tell. Yeah, the rest is all new whether due to changes or simply being book 6 material.



Yeah, I'd forgotten those.  I should have remembered, because those two things are an example of what I meant when I said I worried about the producers rushing the conclusion to the series.  We still have to see Sam become whatever he's going to become, and we still have to see the Iron Islands story line develop.  Those will probably happen throughout this season; but then it will be a quick jump to the finale season if next season is the last.  (Maybe they'll do a training montage for Sam similar to what they seem to be trying with Arya, but she's already underway this season.)


----------



## Legendary Sidekick

Oh right… Arya getting her eyes back is book 5. But her story is changed slightly, so maybe that's why I don't think of it as book 5. Like Brienne, though her deviation is so severe it's simply a different arc. (Better than where she is in the book, in my opinion.)


----------



## Ben

Well, as I feared Rickon was the gift.  I'm not sure what the point is of having yet another character from the original Stark household for Ramsay to torture, after just having Sansa and Theon escape. Perhaps Jon and the Wildlings will keep him too busy to do any flaying.
As far as Essos, if you're not showing the dragons I'm not too interested.  Maybe we can skip the Dario/Jorah rescue sequence and skip straight to Drogon swooping in.


----------



## MineOwnKing

This episode makes me think of my fishing trips to Canada. I can endure the wind and the waves for a week to slay the walleyes but for the casual angler it might be Hell on water. 

If this was my first viewing of GoT, I would probably not be interested in watching it again. You need to be a die hard fan to enjoy the ensemble cast. Where are the white walkers? Where are the dragons? 

The characters need to overcome obstacles in a shorter time frame. Honestly, why spend more time on Samwell Tarly? When Rickon was revealed all I could think was--yeah, sure, kill him off and be done with it. We've known Rickon for what, 30 seconds of air time? Why should we care?

Boo.


----------



## Legendary Sidekick

I actually fell asleep through part of the episode and didn't bother catching up on on-demand.

Honestly, I'm surprised at this. I'm still watching tonight, but I have to honestly ask myself how into this series I am. If I miss Person of Interest, Blindspot, Madam Secretary or Chicago PD, I watch it again. Yet, for this GoT episode, I dozed off, woke up again, and didn't worry about what I missed. (GoT is the only show I watch before it's available on on-demand. I don't even know when all the other shows I like are on, or what channel.)

Here's hoping tonight will have something awesome so I don't doze off and not care!


----------



## Lunaairis

I really liked this episode. I'm glad Jon an Sansa are together again. There was some hope put back into the series that I feel has been drifting away through out the seasons.

I also like that Tormund Giantsbane was eyeing Brianne the whole episode.   

Little finger seems weird this episode. Like less masterful acting and more like a caricature. But then I think about the Vale running on a sort of 'wonderland' kind of logic and maybe that's fine. Is it just me that thinks the Vale is westeros' wonderland? 

ah well.

I'm glad Danny is killing people again. I really liked that ending shot. Could have used drogo showing up. I think that would have been awesome. Just like Drogo swoops in and Danny is like, " Did the woman not say that my son would be the stallion that mounts the world? Well here is my son."


----------



## Legendary Sidekick

I agree with all of the above. The burning was awesome. No surprise Ramsey killed the wildling woman, but at least it was quick. I didn't expect her to survive capture and really didn't want to see her become his plaything.

I think Dario will die because he's just too good and so cocky about it. But then, I want him to die, so I may be building up this expectation for the wrong reason.


----------



## Lunaairis

Legendary Sidekick said:


> ...I think Dario will die because he's just too good and so cocky about it. But then, I want him to die, so I may be building up this expectation for the wrong reason.



Oh yeah. I'm with you on that.  Daario he's too cocky, good, childish about everything. He hasn't been tempered by the game yet. That's what's keeping me from liking him.


----------



## Ben

Agree with you guys, Daario must go.

And yes, Littlefinger's scene walked a fine line and maybe shaded into caricature.

I wish Osha had maybe at least left a scar on Ramsay's face or gouged an eye.  Would have given the scene more value.  As it was, another notch for serial killer Ramsay.

About that final Dany scene -- I read somewhere where they asked GRRM if the previous firewalk meant that she was immune to fire, and he said no, it was a one time miracle thing. So I was surprised to see it used again.  But that's a great point Luna, I hadn't thought that one of he dragons would be "the stallion that mounts he world".

Sansa/Jon reunion was fave moment of the ep.


----------



## Ben

Sorry, can't help myself, need to elaborate on that Osha scene.

Ok, we know she's extraneous, so she has to go at this stage in the game when we're tying off the loose ends.
She was a big enough character that having her die offscreen would be lame.
So Ramsay has to kill her. And we know there's no chance she's going to be the one to kill him.  Which led for me to a very dramatic scene with no drama. That's why I say it would have been good to surprise us by at least giving Ramsay a little injury, and remind us he's human and not invulnerable.


----------



## MineOwnKing

I liked this episode.

Sansa is acting like her mother. That line of thinking didn't work out so good before. But if the soldiers of the Eyrie arrive in time they might take Winterfell. 

Tyrion got some good lines, happy to see him more involved. 

Loved the scene with Daenerys. Fly those dragons North before winter comes and smoke those white walkers out! Booya.


----------



## Legendary Sidekick

Ben said:


> Sorry, can't help myself, need to elaborate on that Osha scene.
> 
> Ok, we know she's extraneous, so she has to go at this stage in the game when we're tying off the loose ends.
> She was a big enough character that having her die offscreen would be lame.
> So Ramsay has to kill her. And we know there's no chance she's going to be the one to kill him.  Which led for me to a very dramatic scene with no drama. That's why I say it would have been good to surprise us by at least giving Ramsay a little injury, and remind us he's human and not invulnerable.


I agree. Osha is a survivor and a protector until the all-powerful Ramsey knifes her.

It's getting old-hat to see his cocky, victorious grin. You expect him to do something horrible, so Osha and also the mother and baby were unsurprising. Only gutting his father came off as dramatic because it was somewhat unexpected… most of us may have been asking if he'd kill his father, but there was no question about the kills that followed.


----------



## FifthView

I simply don't like the kind of setup that lets us know, well ahead of time, what's probably going to happen.  From the moment Ramsay put his knife down and Osha put on her seductive mask, I think it was pretty obvious what was going to happen.

Overall though, the episode was the best this season so far.  The Sansa-Jon reunion was the first Stark reunion since everyone went their separate ways, right?  (And they went far north, far south early in the season.)

I'm wondering what Daenerys will say to Tyrion when she finds out he's given the slavers 7 years to stop slaving.  I mean, she's going to show up with a horde of Dothraki, so it's not like she can't put down those rebellions.  The show might take its time reuniting Dany with her followers in Meereen—long enough for the ships to arrive from Pyke by the end of the season (thus setting up next season.)

So Arya drinking that poison water means she's authentically forsaken her identity as Arya, isn't just playing around now?


----------



## FifthView

He held the door.


----------



## Legendary Sidekick

Nooooooooooooooooooooo(dor)!


----------



## Lunaairis

Its funny I heard a theory about this a while ago, and now that it played out as being true. I'm just crying. What was this episode? This was a great episode! I'm just- don't mind the water works I need to find some band-aids for my soul.


----------



## Legendary Sidekick

I had a feeling Hodor was doomed when I saw the pixyish creatures making a last stand. It also explains Hodor's intense fear. He sort of knew this moment was coming.

Tragic but in a good way, and I liked the episode overall.

The red priestess who beat the Spider at his own game looks young. She's probably only a 250-year-old lady.


----------



## Ben

No kidding Legendary she's wearing the same necklace! It is known ...

Probably the best episode that didn't involve a battle or getting chased out of a hard home by ice zombies IMO (I guess actually it did involve the latter)

Bummed that we are down to just 2 direwolves


----------



## Legendary Sidekick

Ben said:


> No kidding Legendary she's wearing the same necklace! It is known ...


The Glamor might reduce age by a factor of ten. Mid-20s actress for ~age 250. Melisandre's supposed to be 400 and the actress is 39.



Ben said:


> Bummed that we are down to just 2 direwolves


One male, one female though, right? They can make more. (I know… I'm not supposed to be optimistic about anything in _ASoIaF_, even replacing dead pets.)

I just assume the dire wolves and Starks are paired so the boys got boy dogs and the girls got girl dogs. Sansa's wolf was named Lady. I don't have an Exhibit B.


----------



## FifthView

Legendary Sidekick said:


> The Glamor might reduce age by a factor of ten. Mid-20s actress for ~age 250. Melisandre's supposed to be 400 and the actress is 39.



I don't know.  Maybe she takes off the necklace and she's a 10-year-old girl.  It could work both ways, right?

I was surprised Bran's wolf bit the dust.  But this actually works out.  That direwolf and Hodor were the only two Bran had warged into, right?  So now he'll have to find other things if he's going to warg.  (The wheels turn...)


----------



## MineOwnKing

I enjoyed this episode. The ending with Hodor was good.

I'm a fan, I love it, but...

Unfortunately I have to say, if this was a major motion picture, most of the scenes would have found the cutting room floor. 

The meeting with Varys and Kinvara was okay but does it move the plot along or just add more mystery to mystery? Why not just tell us what the voice in the flames said as the wizard threw his privates in the fire? How does her knowing the past prove that she's any better than Melisandre? 

Now if Kinvara would have summoned the demon and ordered it to eat Varys and Tyrion, that would have been exciting. Also, if she is chosen by the Lord of Light...why not lock her in with the dragons and test her power under dragon fire? Bilbo did it. 

I found the parting of Danaerys and Sir Jorah weak, drawn out and not very moving. Iain Glen is outstanding as always but I just didn't feel the love from Danaerys. There was 10 minutes wasted that could have been trimmed down to 1 minute. 

I still don't understand the purpose of the old dude in the tree. Didn't he have any power? What will Bran do with his new power...that really isn't very powerful? Can he use it to control the minds of dragons? That would be cool. 

There was also 10 minutes lost to Jon and Sansa considering a map. This scene should have been cut. The Greyjoys should have been cut too. The Spanish, desolated forests to create 130 ships for their Armada....how are the Greyjoys going to build 1,000 ships? Boo. 

Why is the undead army waiting to attack? I think the ensemble cast is too stretched to the corners of the world. 

All we really need is Danaerys riding a dragon to defeat the white walkers. At this point the rest is just filler. We don't need to see another scene of her coming of age and coming to power. 

Green light means go, Yellow light means go faster....


----------



## FifthView

I've read some scattered comments about the episode, mostly on Twitter, and watched a few reaction videos.  A lot of people seem to blame Bran for Hodor's condition.  But really, wasn't the Three-Eyed Raven more to blame?


He probably already knew what was going to happen.
He took Bran to that particular past in a moment of crisis to...what?  Watch his father be told not to fight or if he fights, to win?
He tells Bran to listen to his friend—get Hodor to help.
He's watching Bran the whole time, sees Bran looking toward the young Hodor.

There are also some funny reaction videos to the deaths.  Some people were very angry or upset when Summer died.  When Leaf (the main Child helping them) died, lots of people wanted her to throw her magic grenade; why is she just standing there to die?  But both were cases of _buying a few seconds_ for Bran, Meera, and Hodor to make it out the door, since apparently the wights like to stop and stab a lot when given the opportunity.  That was a close call, barely getting the door shut, so those seconds of delay worked.

But this also explains the whole Hodor situation.  Bran had to create a time loop (even if the Raven had more of a hand in making sure that happened) to buy Bran and Meera a chance to escape into the frozen mist.  And Hodor's situation holding the door was tenuous.  Anyone else might have failed, and even Hodor might have failed if Bran/Raven hadn't created that self-reinforcing resolve, that loop which basically translated into absolute focus on that one task when said focus was absolutely necessary.

The people angry with GOT and GRRM should step back and think about it.  Here were four White Walkers and thousands of wights versus about 10 individuals, in the middle of a wilderness and pretty much nowhere to run.  OF COURSE many of the good guys had to die.


----------



## Legendary Sidekick

I think all seven knew there wasn't a way they'd survive this battle, and Leaf being the last of her kind chose to die in the way that would wipe out as many as possible—like Vasquez in _Aliens,_ only she didn't say, "You always were an asshole, Hodor." [1:25]


----------



## MineOwnKing

I'm confused why we didn't get to find out more about Jon's mother. We had that cool sword battle leading up to it, then everything just fizzled. 

Extremely annoying.


----------



## Lunaairis

You know the first half of this episode was awesome. The last half was meh.  But I always find the 7th episode in a game of thrones season the be the boring one. So I'm glad at least the beginning had some well done moving forward the plot/ character moments.

I'm actually more excited for next week's episode. Then the ninth is always the best episode on the season- at least as I've found, so I'm excited to see what the mic drop moment for this season is going to be.


----------



## Legendary Sidekick

I agree it was an episode that basically just sets things up for the end of the season.

Area betraying the House of Black and White was my favorite moment. The whole sequence was awesome—her expressions during the stage performance, the interaction with her target, the heroic betrayal, getting needle, and knowing that the waif will come after her. (Hypocritical: making her mission to kill Arya personal when the test was to see if Arya can kill with indifference.)


----------



## FifthView

I thought Bran's and Arya's sequences were the best.  Arya for the reasons Legendary gave, Bran's because Uncle Benjen's new abilities are freaking awesome.  I already "knew" (strongly suspected) that Benjen would show up to save Bran and Meera, after last episode, but I had no clue he'd be an anti-White Walker.  Song of Ice and Fire, eh?

Dany's part at the end was pretty much the lamest thing so far this season.  No build-up, just an "oh!" meaningless glance ahead, which pretty much telegraphed where she was going and what she was doing since there was no other possible reason for her taking off.  But what makes it worse:  We were led to believe that the Dothraki had fully joined her out of devotion after the scene at the end of ep. 4, but here she has to return riding the dragon and telling them they are all her blood riders in order to stoke that hurrah!  hurrah!  hurrah! devotion to her plan.  It was extremely counterproductive, from a creative viewpoint, and seemed entirely tagged on at the end of this episode.

I also found Margaery's utter lack of concern for her brother to be silly, given what we've already been shown.  So she and Tommen are now converts—no doubt, she's just playing the High Sparrow and also sticking it to Cersei at the same time—so good for them; but I don't think that the writers did well in entirely ignoring the fact that she's walking off with Tommen, safe, but leaving her brother behind.  Logically, yes, I can see why she would have to do that, in order to secure her safety first, but ignoring even a hint of her plans for saving her brother was a misstep I think.  Basically, the writers wanted to "surprise" the viewers in the way Jaime et al. were surprised, so they played it out from his perspective.  This was not quite as obvious a contrived set of events as the Dany scene, but felt close to it.

Overall, I thought this was a very weak episode, one of the weakest I can remember from any season.  I turned it off afterward and went about doing other things with hardly a thought about it.  Maybe the previous episode's strong ending set this one up for automatic failure.


----------



## Legendary Sidekick

FifthView said:


> one of the weakest I can remember from any season.


I don't know… season five had quite a slump.

I totally agree the Dany scene was the lamest. I asked my wife what she did with the white horse, and my wife said it was a snack for the dragon. If my wife and I are making comments during the episode, that means we don't give a shit. It was unnecessary because her peeps were hers the moment they saw her standing naked in the fire like a Goddess of Awesome. Now it's like, "And I ride dragons too! I'm all kinds of awesome!" And they're like, "YEAAAAAAAAAH!"

Maybe next episode, she'll ride a flaming dragon in the nude. "YYYYYEEEEEAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH," the crowd will say.


----------



## Ben

No comments on the visit to Horn Hill? 
The internet seemed to love seeing Sam stick it to his mean old dad by stealing his sword. I guess I enjoyed that too but for the most part I'm not into the Sam and Gilly storyline. We'll see if it pays off later.
Off topic -- I binged watched Narcos on Netflix and loved it.  As good as Pedro Pascal was on GoT, I liked him even better in Narcos.


----------



## MineOwnKing

I enjoyed this episode best.

In fact, there was nothing I didn't like. 

It flowed well and had an epic feel to it. 

It was more like a movie and less like a soap opera. 

Cinematic and sweeping.

Loved it.


----------



## FifthView

Ben said:


> No comments on the visit to Horn Hill?
> The internet seemed to love seeing Sam stick it to his mean old dad by stealing his sword. I guess I enjoyed that too but for the most part I'm not into the Sam and Gilly storyline. We'll see if it pays off later.



The Sam/Gilly storyline is boring me and comes late into the overall story.  I actually had the sense that the writers are checking boxes off on a list.  Sam needs a Valerian steel sword?  Check!


----------



## Lunaairis

Who let the dog out? Who, Who Who?

I really enjoyed the little montage sort of thing with Sansa, John and Davos going to northern houses to get help. It was slightly comedic to see the trio, trying to get help, but doors are just shutting in their face.

NOoOo ARYA HEAL GIRL HEAL. YOU CAN'T DIE. I BELIEVE IN YOU. (I know she's probably going to be fine. Its just hurts to see my favorite character get hurt) 

Over all I enjoyed this episode. Not as good as episode 5 but much stronger then 6.


----------



## Legendary Sidekick

Arya surviving will be as surprising as Sandor's new friends being slaughtered.

That said, I liked this episode. It's probably one of the better "set up" episodes, even though most of it was unsurprising. Margery is playing the Sparrow—I knew that, but am glad to see it confirmed by a drawing of a rose. Speculation: I wonder if Tommen will die, putting High Garden in power.

Sandor seems to be a better man. Not surprised he's going to chop something other than wood next week, but lord of light followers taking out peaceful people from other religions… Sandor standing up to that would be a nice change.

Brienne vs. Jaime……… ahhhhh shit. (I'm referring to the preview of next episode.) How she ends up against Jaime makes more sense in the show than in the book, but it's still a rivalry that can't end well unless it can be resolved without a fight. I like Brienne, but Jaime is on the "safe" list. "No one is safe" is bullshit. The Lannister siblings and remaining Stark children/teens will all survive well into book 7.

Arya surprised me by getting taken down, but that's a good surprise. She shouldn't take out the waif so easily. We've already seen Arya get her butt kicked by the waif. I expected a blind fight when she slept in the dark, and now I don't know what to expect other than Arya somehow surviving this.


----------



## FifthView

My guess is that Arya is going to that actress, who will help her. I didn't like the way the waif was obvious to viewers, on approach.  I'm like, "Nooooo!"  But I do think it'll be interesting to see how Arya comes out of this.

I did not like the time leaping in the Jon/Sansa/Davos montage.  A little too comedic for my taste, combined with the fact that Jon and Sansa for the most part stood as ignorant, overwhelmed mutes.  Hey, here's a guy who has fought a White Walker, who has seen the scope of the overwhelming undead army that will be heading south soon; but instead of using that as a reason for aid, when soliciting aid, the half-brother half-sister combo were like Oliver Twist holding forth an empty bowl: 






Preview for next episode looks great.


----------



## Ben

I enjoyed this episode, despite it being low on the action scale.  They stuck to the storylines and characters I am most interested in and set things up for some upcoming showdowns.

Strangely, when I read the books, I didn't register Riverrun Siege as a major event, but they are hyping it up big time -- some impressive shots from the next episode preview. I was wondering how they would resolve it and have it make sense and resemble the book, and then I remembered Brienne was coming, and I see the way forward -- I am assuming book spoilers and speculation still ok on the spoiler fest thread -- when she gives Blackfish the news, I could see him abandoning the castle to Edmure and the Lannisters/Freys, and sneaking his army out the back door to go aid Sansa.

Really love Ian McShane and was excited to see he Hound back, so those scenes were a hit with me. Wondering where he goes from here -- I don't see the much hyped Cleganebowl happening (would be going backwards for him to fight his brother again, and I don't see him becoming a true believer in the High Sparrow), but he may bust up he Brotherhood which could bring him face to face with a certain lady with a stone heart.

Yes, the Starks begging for men scenes had issues with them not putting their best foot forward, I agree.  And yeah, the badass little kid running House Mormont was a little hokey, but all in good fun.

For a minute there I thought they really might kill off Arya, but she's running around and jumping off buildings in the previews so I think she'll be ok, probably some trick involving, as someone mentioned, the troupe of players.

Have high hopes for the final episodes


----------



## MineOwnKing

I liked this one.

I did get the vibe that the story isn't going to end anytime soon. I'm surprised by that. I thought we were heading for a wrap up. Now it looks like many more seasons. 

I think I would lose interest if they choose to drag it out. I like an epic but...throw the ring in the lava and be done with it. 

One of the reasons I would lose interest is because of the cameo roles. Ian McShane steps in front of the screen and we immediately see the difference in his professional acting compared to the child actors that have grown on us, but really are lacking in depth. They could be replaced by other actors and I wouldn't even care.

James Faulkner is stunning as Randyll Tarly. That's what I call intensity. 

Amateur acting is dampening the energy. I found myself caring more about Ian McShane's character than the rest of the plot lines combined.

I think this is why I like Vikings better. Better acting makes a series great and memorable.

Vikings scene 1 Episode 1 is one of my all time favorites. The lightning strikes the tree and I'm thrown into the battle. Oden and the Valkyries walk among the fallen soldiers and I am there, walking with my Norwegian ancestors. My peeps.


----------



## Ben

Great points, King.

When the better actors get on there it does highlight what the other actors aren't bringing to the table, doesn't it?

I saw the casting call for Randyll Tarly and it sounded like it was going to be a big part, so I'm guessing we'll at least see a lot more of Faulkner.

The scuttlebutt on sites like Watchers on the Wall is that there will be 2 more shorter seasons of 7 and 6 episodes respectively. I dunno, hard to believe they can get everything tied up in that time frame.  Lots of people need to get off their assess (looking at you, White Walkers. And Dani).

That's a strong endorsement for Vikings -- I think I will give it a go.  I don't have any Norse heritage but have always found Vikings fascinating (both in fantasy settings and historical).


----------



## MineOwnKing

Ben said:


> Great points, King.
> 
> When the better actors get on there it does highlight what the other actors aren't bringing to the table, doesn't it?



_Yes! I did pick up on it before when Charles Dance played Tywin Lannister, but he was in so many scenes I didn't realize the night and day quality of acting. Jonathan Pryce has great presence as the High Sparrow, but he plays a soft spoken character often in the shadows._


That's a strong endorsement for Vikings -- I think I will give it a go.  I don't have any Norse heritage but have always found Vikings fascinating (both in fantasy settings and historical).

_Vikings isn't perfect but there are many scenes of cinematic quality. It is filmed very differently. Travis Fimmel has a unique acting style that works well for Ragnar Lodbrock. It is not known if Ragnar actually existed. Both he and Legartha are part myth. Ragnar is almost god-like and we get that from Travis's facial expressions and strange speech patterns. 

His supposed sons were real men, and their history is recorded.
_


----------



## Legendary Sidekick

I really like Brienne and Jaime in the show. Hopefully, book six is similar in the sense that neither wants to betray the other. I forget how the (almost) bloodless seige turned out in the book, but I like how it was handled in the show.

Arya, Sandor, Dany: all predictable outcomes but not in a bad way. Many heads and faces were ripped off.

Robert Strong looked like he was just teaching the guy a lesson. Then... nope! He just needed the voice in his head to say "Finish him!"

I have a feeling next place is another episode that happens all (or mostly?) in one place. Here's hoping Bastard Bowl ends brutally for Ramsey!


----------



## FifthView

I thought this was the strongest episode this season, overall.  (The pathos and reveal combo of Hodor's death hasn't been surpassed, but this episode was more evenly strong.)

I'll have to watch it again...but didn't I see two candles in that room where Arya confronted the Waif?  I thought there was one beside the entrance to the larger area, past the entry hallway, and one beside Arya.  This left me wondering afterward how she put out all the light by cutting in half the candle beside her.  Maybe my memory's off.

Dany's last two appearances this season have been perfunctory.  It's almost as if she's temporarily stopped being a character and has become a prop—_deus ex machina_ embodied, now?  Hah.  I wonder how she'll interpret Tyrion's temporary rule.

The Jaime/Brienne, King's Landing and Hound scenes were the strongest in this episode. 

I am this close (fingers an inch apart) to believing that Cersei will order her own son killed—what culmination of the prophecy she once received!  But then, that rumor she mentioned at the end may be concrete evidence that the High Sparrow is a charlatan.  Hmmmm.

I was pleasantly surprised to learn that  Dondarrion and Thoros are not only aware of the White Walkers etc. up north, they are preparing for it.  They are the furthest-south people to be aware of the scope of the coming winter.  Seems a collusion with Jon/Sansa after Winterfell is taken is in the works, and I'm guessing the Hound meets Arya again in Winterfell, although the timing would point to a reunion next season if it happens that way.

The preview for episode 9...I wish Jon could someday become something other than mopey.  On another note, I think that chances are high we'll have an "OMG we're going to lose!" moment broken by the serendipitous arrival of the Vale's forces to save the day.


----------



## Legendary Sidekick

FifthView said:


> I am this close (fingers an inch apart) to believing that Cersei will order her own son killed—what culmination of the prophecy she once received!


My wife predicted this aloud at the end of that scene. As much as she'd do anything for her children, it wouldn't be the first time she tried to kill Tommen out of "mercy."


----------



## FifthView

Legendary Sidekick said:


> My wife predicted this aloud at the end of that scene. As much as she'd do anything for her children, it wouldn't be the first time she tried to kill Tommen out of "mercy."



I'd forgotten that last time.

I think this time could play out differently.  She seems to have already internalized the inevitability of that prophecy.  If it came down to suffering herself and taking him out, she could take him out to save herself, resigned to fate.  Jaime has recently made a pivot, dimming the likeability that had been building for him, a kind of new absolutist resolve revolving around the fact that he and Cersei are the only two people in the world worth saving. Cersei could take a similar route.

Totally wild speculation but. . .I could see Tommen forcing the issue, arriving with the Kingsguard to take her to her trial, and Cersei ordering the Mountain to "Kill them all."  Which he does but, while she's distracted, he also goes for Tommen due to her vague order, killing the king.

I don't know how Margaery will play into whatever happens.


----------



## Ben

Legendary Sidekick said:


> Here's hoping Bastard Bowl ends brutally for Ramsey!



I second that!


----------



## Ben

FifthView said:


> I thought this was the strongest episode this season, overall.  (The pathos and reveal combo of Hodor's death hasn't been surpassed, but this episode was more evenly strong.)



Wow! This was the weakest for me.  Just shows how subjective judging art/entertainment is.



FifthView said:


> have to watch it again...but didn't I see two candles in that room where Arya confronted the Waif?  I thought there was one beside the entrance to the larger area, past the entry hallway, and one beside Arya.  This left me wondering afterward how she put out all the light by cutting in half the candle beside her.  Maybe my memory's off.



Yeah I thought so too -- will have to rewatch it.  I'm not sure how long she was laid out on Lady Crane's couch for, I'm guessing a day or two -- long time for those candles to be burning.  Unless she quickly lit them when she came in just to dramatically cut them out?



FifthView said:


> Dany's last two appearances this season have been perfunctory.  It's almost as if she's temporarily stopped being a character and has become a prop–_deus ex machina_ embodied, now?  Hah.  I wonder how she'll interpret Tyrion's temporary rule.



One of the funniest (intentional/nonintenional?) moments of the episode for me.  Dany is like the parents coming home to find the kids having a kegger in the living room and the lawn's on fire.



FifthView said:


> I am this close (fingers an inch apart) to believing that Cersei will order her own son killed–what culmination of the prophecy she once received!  But then, that rumor she mentioned at the end may be concrete evidence that the High Sparrow is a charlatan.  Hmmmm.



Oooh I would love something along those lines -- the theories Ive heard around the internet revolve around a stash of wildfire from Aery's days and I don't see how that makes sense.



FifthView said:


> The preview for episode 9...I wish Jon could someday become something other than mopey.  On another note, I think that chances are high we'll have an "OMG we're going to lose!" moment broken by the serendipitous arrival of the Vale's forces to save the day.



Yes the Rohirrim will come riding in to save the day, almost guaranteed. It would be great if D & D played against that expectation.  Maybe have them ride in, but they can't get the good guys over the hump.  All seems lost and then all of a sudden:
the Manderlys show up! And the Brotherhood without Banners along with the Hound!


----------



## Ben

As I said, this was the weakest one for me.  A couple of big moments that were a little bit of a let down, and then I kept noticing little things that bugged me.

The results of Cersei choosing violence were underwhelming.  Funny I can say that given it resulted in a bare-handed decapitation, but really, I expected all of Lancel's boyband to die in various gruesome and creative ways.

Blackfish dies off-screen.  Sigh.  Not just that, but was so sad that all his soldiers and his nephew just abandoned him and were willing to turn him over to the enemy at the drop of a hat.  From what we know of Brendan and Edmure's relationship, Edmure wouldn't have the balls to come in and tell them to put Blackfish in chains, and the soldiers should have had way more respect for Blackfish over Edmure.

Arya's big fight off screen.  Sigh.  At least give me a blank screen and a few seconds of fight sounds to get my imagination going.

Riverrun ended up a big nothing.  A big buildup resulting in everything the same as before Blackfish re-took it.  Except Brienne and Jaime met up again, but I didn't get anything out of it but an "attagirl".  I think that storyline was already done.

Mereen - waste of time scene with Tyrion and the advisers.

Ok so I know enough to say that Arya's wounds were not survivable given the technology she has available.  Multiple liver lacerations, multiple bowel perforations, she's not coming back from that.  It bothered me so much I couldn't really enjoy the actually well done chase scene.


And still ... I didn't hate it, just feel a little ... disappointed.  Loved Sandor's scenes and was great to see Thoros again and the Lightning Lord still alive! (he's fave of mine)


----------



## Ben

Legendary Sidekick said:


> My wife predicted this aloud at the end of that scene. As much as she'd do anything for her children, it wouldn't be the first time she tried to kill Tommen out of "mercy."




When was that? Sounds familiar but I've completely forgotten.


----------



## Legendary Sidekick

I think season 2, during the Bkackwater battle vs. Stannis. Cersei was holding Tommen, ready to poison him if the enemy got inside the castle.

I didn't mind battles not being shown, though I can see how you'd get annoyed at having multiple off-screen deaths. (Blackfish, Waif, and whatever fiery deaths were caused by Dany's dragon) Dany's entrance was something like Superman entering a police station saying, "Take the rest of the day off. I solved everything by myself. Again."

I did like the Arya vs. Waif subtlety. Slashing the candle was all you had to see.


----------



## FifthView

Ben said:


> Wow! This was the weakest for me.  Just shows how subjective judging art/entertainment is.



Yep, I suppose so.

For me, the strength came mostly from the character moments.   The interactions between Jaime & Brienne felt real, authentic, and revealed so much about them.  The Cersei vs Tommen scene was a sort of sudden revelation of the true predicament facing both (although Tommen may not realize this as strongly as Cersei does.)  The Hound brought up short by Dondarrion, having to settle his vengeance by kicking the wood from under the feet of his prey, was great, and the conversation later gave greater scope to the characters of  Dondarrion and Thoros  than I remember from their previous appearances.

As far as the Mountain's killing of that member of the Faith Militant...I think that goes to remind us that we should never trust teaser trailers.  I'd been led to believe that Cersei's words, "I choose violence" were a prelude to a mass slaughter, so a part of me was upset.  (Similarly, Davos' taking up the sword and asking for forgiveness for what we're about to see...led to nothing.)  But as much as I want to see the slaughter of the Faith Militant, the Mountain vs that small ragtag group wouldn't have been much of a fight.  I actually liked that scene once my disappointment disappeared, because it was a sort of Rubicon for Cersei.  The shape and outcome of her trial had been vague to that point, but now her man has murdered one of the High Sparrow's soldiers, so the stakes have been thrown into sharp relief.


----------



## Legendary Sidekick

What I liked about the Mountain's killing was that it was slow and deliberate and _easy._

He let the guy react to the harmlessness of his weapon. He choked he guy and tossed him, letting the man gasp for air. He can be merciful, if he chooses to. He then rips the man's head off with ease to show that he can just as easily deny mercy.

The faith militant's reaction was to back down. Up to this point, we've been led to believe that these men are willing to die for their cause. Now when faced with a single opponent that can maaaaaaaybe be overwhelmed with high casualties, or maybe not, they decide to puss out.

That's what makes the scene (for me). Not that Robert Strong wins and does something over-the-top violent. But that he gives the faith militant a chance to back down, and they do.


----------



## Lunaairis

11/10, I was on the edge of my seat the whole episode. Wonderful war sequences. I'm sad Rickon didn't use any warging powers, but that didn't much change the fact that those two war scenes were so well put together.

Man the dragons have got huge.


----------



## FifthView

The battle was filmed better than most big screen battles.

Anyone else wonder whatever happened to Ghost?


----------



## Lunaairis

FifthView said:


> The battle was filmed better than most big screen battles.
> 
> Anyone else wonder whatever happened to Ghost?



Yeah was wondering that too.


----------



## Legendary Sidekick

I was using the f-word a lot. Context: "No, Jon, you ****ing idiot! Don't ****ing do it! Ramsey's such a ****ing cartoon!"

I don't know why I called him a cartoon, but I did.

That was really an awesome battle, and I love that Sansa got to have her victory. Poor Rikkon. He was doomed, but that didn't take away from the satisfaction of Ramsey finally going down, getting the skin bit off of his face! Great job making the battle look so hopeless for Jon Snow and his men!


----------



## Lunaairis

Huh. I think I know whats going to happen next episode to melisandre. If the part in the teaser for next weeks episode where ser Davos shouts " Tell him what you did to her" is what I think it means.  I think Jon is going to have to pass judgement on her. Aka, stab her with longclaw. fulfilling the part of the prince who was promised  role and create Lightbringer?

I'm probably wrong, and since the episode is called winds of winter. I think winter may actually arrive.


----------



## FifthView

I vaguely remember Melisandre telling Arya that they would meet again one day.  So...I don't know.  But I don't know anything about the prince and Lightbringer, either.    At the time, I thought Arya might become a true disciple of the Many-Faced God, so this was going to be a fire/life vs darkness/death sort of thing, but Arya seems to have avoided that path.

Edit:  Ah, here it is:


----------



## ascanius

That is by far the best battle scene ever for a medieval battle, better than any movie I have seen.  I wanted to reach through the screen and strangle Jon for his absolute stupidity though.  I kinda figured that Ramsey was going to get killed by his hounds early on but it was still very satisfying.

Mr. Martin is a horrible person for not having released the books before this season, that is my only complaint.


----------



## Legendary Sidekick

Episode 9 is usually the big one, but still, 10 interests me since we're beyond the books. Let's see if there's still a boy king on the Iron Throne at 10pm EST tomorrow. (Or 12:30am the next day in my case. I always catch the later showing.)


----------



## FifthView

I expect Tommen to die.  This would set up next season fairly well.  Margaery and the Tyrells would be in control of King's Landing at the start of next season, Cersei running northward from the capital to meet up with Jaime wherever he is at the end of Ep. 10, with the Mountain as her only traveling companion.

I've been trying to picture how next season might play out.  I can actually see the undead horde making its move southward in the last episode of this season.  At some point next season, Jon & Co. will need to retreat southward, where they meet up with the Lannisters who, surprising many, end up allying themselves with the Starks—the enemy of my enemy is my friend, and the undead horde is the enemy to all.  Eventually, that allied force retreats further south toward King's Landing, where the final battle happens.

I'm guessing that Varys's secret mission is to Dorne, seeking an alliance, given how the Sand Snakes have an absolute hatred of the Lannisters, and Dany's forces will land somewhere south of King's Landing and team up with Dorne.  So while the forces in the north (Starks + Lannisters + the Vale) are fighting the White Walkers' army, retreating step by step, Dany is advancing north toward King's Landing and will take it before the northern forces arrive.

Pure speculation, of course.  I'm kind of fantasizing that tomorrow's episode will end with Cersei passing out when Tommen is killed (my hope, at the Mountain's hand), and the Mountain scoops her up and leaves King's Landing with an unconscious Cersei in his arms, leaving the capital to the Tyrells.  First episode next season would open with Cersei waking up somewhere in the wilderness with the Mountain, bewildered and making the decision to find Jaime.


----------



## FifthView

I overestimated Margaery's role in the story.  Loved how it played out.

The single best episode in the entire run of the show?  Possibly but there have been so many.

My only major complaint was Varys' newfound ability to teleport, but meh, whatever.  Arya's almost able to do that as well...come to think of it, their names are quite similar, heh...


----------



## Lunaairis

is it just me, or like everything happened this episode?


----------



## Ankari

FifthView said:


> I overestimated Margaery's role in the story.  Loved how it played out.



You're assuming she died. I know it appears the only conclusion, but I wouldn't write her off yet.


----------



## Legendary Sidekick

Well, Varys was in Mereen at the end, but that could've been days/weeks later. It does come off as teleporting, but we don't know how much time passes between scenes.

Same with time between episodes. Arya was at Riverrun, just waiting for the Lannister army to get out of her way.

This was an impressive season finale. It set up next season, but with plenty of surprises!


----------



## evolution_rex

I can only see this show having 2 more seasons at the most. This season ended with a clear-cut path to to the end. If it's two seasons, next would be about Daenerys conquering Westeros and all the twists and turns with the Starks and Lannisters, and then the final season would be an all out battle between the ice (the whitewalkers) and fire (the dragons.)


----------



## Ankari

More observations


Daenerys bestowing the office of the Hand on Tyrion was very touching. I'm not sure exactly why her earned it. His actions incited a war.  I wonder what their relationship will bloom into. Why not wed into one of the greater houses of Westeros to secure legitimacy.
Speaking of marriages, Daenerys' refusal of Daario to join her may backfire. What exactly is keeping Meereen civil? She took her Unsullied, Dothraki, dragons, and ships. The Second Sons were there before the Dothraki came and saved Meereen. What is to stop the Sons of the Harpy to rise up again?
Speaking more of marriages, now that Tyrion is returning to Westeros, what will come of Sansa's marriage to him? By marrying Sansa, he is now the effective King of the North.
But what about Brandon Stark!? Well, I believe is role as the Three Eyed Raven will take him away from rulership. I think he'll abstain his claim.
Jon Snow is Jon Targaryen and has rightful claim to the Iron Throne. Moreso than Daenerys Stormborn (I know she's a Targaryen). Also, Jon can have children, while Daenerys cannot. Also, Jon is more accept by the people of Westeros than Daenerys. Also.....
Jon is a worg. He can possess the minds of creatures. How will this play out when (IF) he must face the dragons as the White Wolf of the North.
Jaimie Lannister is no longer a Kings Guard. He is now the official heir of the Lannister. The last look he gave Cersei spoke volumes. I wonder if he has realized his mistakes. I wonder if he'll find a nice Lady of Tarth to wed and have strong heirs. I wonder if he'll side with North.

I'd like to speculate that Daenerys will hold the Iron Throne for a short time, if at all. She has never shown herself to be an effective ruler, only an outstanding conqueror. I think she is meant to be _the_ tragic character in this tale of tragedy. She lost her husband, she can't have children, she fights an uphill battle against traditions, and she will die in Westeros. I think she will die valiantly, against the white walkers, but she will die none the less. I'm wondering if George, and the show writers, have thought of the twist of Daenerys turning to a white walker but still having control of the dragons. Tragedy.


----------



## Legendary Sidekick

Interesting prediction about Dany. She has Chosen One tattooed on her forehead, so for her to rise so high and come crashing down... yeah, I won't rule that out.

I like Cersei as a villain. I mean I _hate_ her, but I like that she is unquestionably evil. She spared her son, but not really. She knew the prophecy and let Tommen choose to try surviving with mom... or not. Ramsey is a joke; Cersei's a divine comedy.


----------



## evolution_rex

Ankari said:


> Daenerys bestowing the office of the Hand on Tyrion was very touching. I'm not sure exactly why her earned it. His actions incited a war.  I wonder what their relationship will bloom into. Why not wed into one of the greater houses of Westeros to secure legitimacy.


Probably fanservice more than anything


> Speaking of marriages, Daenerys' refusal of Daario to join her may backfire. What exactly is keeping Meereen civil? She took her Unsullied, Dothraki, dragons, and ships. The Second Sons were there before the Dothraki came and saved Meereen. What is to stop the Sons of the Harpy to rise up again?


I don't think it's stated that she took all of the soldiers there, so it's likely she left some behind.


> Speaking more of marriages, now that Tyrion is returning to Westeros, what will come of Sansa's marriage to him? By marrying Sansa, he is now the effective King of the North.


She remarried, so I assume that means she is no longer bound by Tyrion's marriage. I could be wrong though, it'd be a really interesting dynamic.


> But what about Brandon Stark!? Well, I believe is role as the Three Eyed Raven will take him away from rulership. I think he'll abstain his claim.


He's definitely going to continue his role as the Three Eyed Raven, and I assume will come into play when the whitewalkers start heading over the wall. 


> Jon is a worg. He can possess the minds of creatures. How will this play out when (IF) he must face the dragons as the White Wolf of the North.


This has been a theory for a long time, but what hints at this?


> Jaimie Lannister is no longer a Kings Guard. He is now the official heir of the Lannister. The last look he gave Cersei spoke volumes. I wonder if he has realized his mistakes. I wonder if he'll find a nice Lady of Tarth to wed and have strong heirs. I wonder if he'll side with North.


I'm fairly certain he will turn against his sister, either joined Jon Snow (because of Brienne) or joining Daenerys when she arrives at their door. I think it's going to be a last minute twist and might unexpectingly murder Cersei.



> I'd like to speculate that Daenerys will hold the Iron Throne for a short time, if at all. She has never shown herself to be an effective ruler, only an outstanding conqueror. I think she is meant to be _the_ tragic character in this tale of tragedy. She lost her husband, she can't have children, she fights an uphill battle against traditions, and she will die in Westeros. I think she will die valiantly, against the white walkers, but she will die none the less. I'm wondering if George, and the show writers, have thought of the twist of Daenerys turning to a white walker but still having control of the dragons. Tragedy.


She's essentially just gotten more powerful and more powerful during the course of the entire series with little conflict. It would be far too predictable for her to win. She's going to get hit suddenly and it's going to be hard.


----------



## Ankari

evolution_rex said:


> This has been a theory for a long time, but what hints at this?



Of Jon being a worg? GRRM wrote a scene where he takes control of his dire wolf. I thought he did something similar in the GOT show? I think they played it off as a dream sequence.


----------



## Legendary Sidekick

Jon and Arya are both wargs in the books. I think in the show, we don't even see Arya's wolf. (We just know she got away in S1.)


----------



## FifthView

For me, the biggest wildcard going into next season will be Euron Greyjoy's forces.  He's been introduced, his huge future navy has been implied, so they'll have to do something with him.

I have visions of Euron confronting Dany's fleet before it reaches Westeros and sinking half or more of the ships (possibly with help from indiscriminate dragon fire in the chaos), reducing her forces substantially.   I think that Dany's huge force + the Tyrell and Dorne forces will simply be too huge for the remaining Lannister force at King's Landing, so for the sake of an interesting story something's going to need to be done to maintain suspense and tension.  This would be somewhat heartbreaking for me, since Dany's spent all six seasons building up her forces, but it's in line with the sort of GRRM reversal of fortune I expect.

By my count, the Lannisters now have zero allies.  So although I greatly enjoy what's become of Cersei–a complete embodiment of the evil queen trope–I think the Lannisters are in an extremely weakened position.  

But then, Euron's insane enough to decide to team up with the Night King, sailing north to offer him passage around the wall via sea.  He gets there, the King kills him and takes the ships, and voila, an answer for getting around the enchanted wall.  I HIGHLY doubt this scenario, heh.  I'm not sure the undead can pass over water, and imagine that breaching the wall would be too big a spectacle for the producers to pass it up.


----------



## Lunaairis

I think next season will be dealing with Cersei and Littlefinger.  I think Little finger will sit the iron throne before the end of the season, but I also think he will die the moment after. Cersei will die before the 4th episode, choked to death by Jaimie.

I predict the scene with kings landing and Dany walking through the red keep in 'winter' will come true probably in the later half of the season. Although I could be wrong and Dany's first stop on controlling westeros is going to be kings landing. Cersei will go all Mad Queen and refuse to give her the kingdom and then burn the city to the ground with wild fire, so that Dany can never have it. I still think Jaimie is going to strangle her and become a Queenslayer on top of being Kingslayer. 

The last season going to be all about the white walkers for sure. It will probably also be the point where Samwell will be done learning to be a maester and either return to the north or find some lost knowledge in the citadel blah blah light glass candles and communicate with the north on how to defeat the wrights. 

somethings I wonder about;

-think Aria is going to go dark side? Will she go to winterfell (upon learning it is stark property again) first or kill Cersei with Jaimies face?  I kind of feel she will want to continue on her hit list. 

- Aria is going to come across Melisandre very soon. I don't know whats going to happen. But that will happen.

-Couldn't Benjen have left Meera and Bran the horse? Is ghost going to find them in the woods? Because ghost has been no where near Jon this whole time.


----------



## FifthView

Lunaairis said:


> -Couldn't Benjen have left Meera and Bran the horse? Is ghost going to find them in the woods? Because ghost has been no where near Jon this whole time.



I wondered about the horse at that very moment.  What, Meera's going to have to drag Bran the rest of the way?  Just look at how she had to work so hard to move him closer to the Weirwood tree...

I'm actually irritated by the way the direwolves, even when alive, were sidelined or missing much of the time.  I do think that each of the wolves takes on the personality traits of their owner, and Jon has always been a sort of loner or outcast, so maybe Ghost wanders about as a lone wolf for that reason.  (Whereas Robb's fought side by side with him earlier in the series.)  I suspect that animating the fully grown direwolves might be costly for the producers, so they've limited appearances...


----------



## SeverinR

I write here after only seeing a few scenes from episodes.

Interesting The Kingslayer killed the king because he ordered "Burn it all." Now Cersei basically burned a large part of one section of town.  Kingslayer adds Queen regent slayer?

Unlike Jon, Margaery is trapped in a chamber that explodes in flames, flames that go on to burn a section of town. Unless she has the blood of the dragon, like Dany, she is toast and I'm not sure what the God's could piece together to bring her back to life. With Jon, it was simply heal the damage and bestow life. With her, it's give her a whole new body. Also as far as I know she did not know any powerful Cleric that could call on the gods to bring her back to life.


----------



## FifthView

SeverinR said:


> Unlike Jon, Margaery is trapped in a chamber that explodes in flames, flames that go on to burn a section of town. Unless she has the blood of the dragon, like Dany, she is toast and I'm not sure what the God's could piece together to bring her back to life.



I do believe she's dead, really dead, completely dead.

But I think it would be hilarious if the child Qyburn sends to spread Tommen's ashes discovered an unburnt Margaery lying in the rubble.  Our third dragon rider?  I, like many, wonder whether we'll discover that Tyrion is the other Targaryen, that Tywin's wife was unfaithful to him.  And Margaery doesn't seem the sort of character I'd expect to be the third.  But it would be interesting to see her emerge from the rubble.


----------



## FifthView

I read an article today saying that GoT had already been officially renewed for a seventh season and not yet an eighth, although the actors were renegotiating contracts for an eighth season and the producers wanted two more shorter seasons.  One of the producers/writers mentioned "73" as the total number of episodes they'd guessed needing from the beginning, which could mean next season has 7 episodes and an eighth season would have 6.  But that was only an approximate number.

This would make sense, now that all the major characters will now be on one continent and running into each other, sharing scenes—they wouldn't need so many episodes to keep up with each character arc.


----------



## Uffda

Lunaairis said:


> -Couldn't Benjen have left Meera and Bran the horse?



Pretty sure the horse was also (un)dead.


----------



## Legendary Sidekick

If they do 7 episodes and another 6, I hope that's like Sopranos, where the final six are an extension rather than another season. I'd much rather have a split 13-episode season than have to wait a whole year after a short season.

Even 10 episodes feels short, though I felt like nine of the episodes were sufficiently entertaining if not wicked awesome. I think the second episode was the only one that didn't do it for me, and everything from 6-10 was done quite well—not flawless, but with so many strengths I can forgive the rah-rah-look-a-dragon and other makefunable bits.


----------



## Lunaairis

On Io9 they were talking about 'at most there is 15 episodes left' after a discussion with the showrunners.

the article isn't long, and you can read it here.


They will probably do a full 7th season of 10 episodes. The 8th I could see them not doing a season but instead swapping out to do a movie if it ends up being 3 hours or less of material. 

I'm in agreement with Sidekick I would rather have a long season split then have to wait a whole year for a short season.


----------



## Legendary Sidekick

As long as the final scene isn't a Journey song cut off by black silence, I'll forgive them for making us wait for a three-hour movie.


----------



## SeverinR

I was reminded by a facebook post of the prophesy of Maggy, the frog.
"she said. And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."
She naturally thought it was Tyrion, (her hatred reinforced), but with the neighborhood nuked with the Prince and his bride fried by Cersei's order...I'm thinking Jaimie will fulfill it.  
I wonder how they will confirm the the King was killed?  Can't be much left with that much fire, that blew up so much.
But I think Cersei has to know she killed her last child before Jaimie kills her.

I guess Cersei and Jaimie now share the title, Kingslayer.


----------



## FifthView

SeverinR said:


> I was reminded by a facebook post of the prophesy of Maggy, the frog.
> "she said. And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."
> She naturally thought it was Tyrion, (her hatred reinforced), but with the neighborhood nuked with the Prince and his bride fried by Cersei's order...I'm thinking Jaimie will fulfill it.



That certainly seems a possibility.  Although I'm curious how he'll "wrap" a metal hand around her throat....

The article "the" makes me wonder if it could be some other little brother.  Bran or Theon?  I don't know of any other little brothers of prominence still alive.  I suppose Euron Greyjoy is technically a little brother although I think his older brothers are dead.  (Same with Loras Tyrell, although he himself seems to be dead.)*

*Edit:  Ah, the Hound is still alive!


----------



## RedMetalHunter

Uffda said:


> Pretty sure the horse was also (un)dead.



Yup, I'm also pretty sure.


----------



## SeverinR

I'm thinking the term Valonqar, refers to her little brother.  Which she forgets is both her brothers, not just Tyrion.
I'm thinking he will do it while she is *unconscious, drunk, drugged or asleep. Of course if he could do an arm choke from behind, the prophesy comes true, but not exactly. (*he could knock her out and choke her to death)

Such a loving family.  Tyrion kills his "father" the hand because he was accused of killing his nephew the King, Jaimie will kill Cersei for killing the people and the Prince.  
Was Tommen Prince or was he king? I forget how it works.

Ah, the age old saying continues, "in the Game of Thrones, you either win or you die."


----------



## FifthView

SeverinR said:


> Was Tommen Prince or was he king? I forget how it works.



He was king.  But he committed suicide after seeing the sept destroyed; she didn't kill him technically, although her actions and lack of supervision led to his suicide.


----------



## ChasingSuns

FifthView said:


> I wondered about the horse at that very moment.  What, Meera's going to have to drag Bran the rest of the way?  Just look at how she had to work so hard to move him closer to the Weirwood tree...
> 
> I'm actually irritated by the way the direwolves, even when alive, were sidelined or missing much of the time.  I do think that each of the wolves takes on the personality traits of their owner, and Jon has always been a sort of loner or outcast, so maybe Ghost wanders about as a lone wolf for that reason.  (Whereas Robb's fought side by side with him earlier in the series.)  I suspect that animating the fully grown direwolves might be costly for the producers, so they've limited appearances...



It was said in the behind the scenes of Battle of the Bastards that due to budget constraints, they had to choose between Ghost and Wun Wun. As much as I love Ghost, it does make more sense to choose Wun Wun in this scenario (R.I.P Wun Wun).


----------



## SeverinR

FifthView said:


> He was king.  But he committed suicide after seeing the sept destroyed; she didn't kill him technically, although her actions and lack of supervision led to his suicide.


I thought Tommen was the one that crawled through and found the wildfire before it went off.
I was mistaken.


----------



## Legendary Sidekick

That was Cersei's cousin/bedbuddy, What's-His-Face. Lancel, I think.

I don't think the prophesy says Cersei kills her own children. She didn't kill the other two. Her actions did set them all up for death, especially Tommen.


STEALTH EDIT - I may have misunderstood—I think someone who posted earlier said or implied that. Apologies if that's just my misunderstanding.


----------



## SeverinR

I do think Jaime will fulfill the prophesy.
Cersei became the Mad king incarnate and it cost him his last son, he has every reason to kill the person in power again.

Won't the death of Tommen, set off a new fight for the throne? OR can Cersei reign until a suitable heir can be created?
Then again, if Jaime fulfills the prophesy...


----------



## X Equestris

SeverinR said:


> I do think Jaime will fulfill the prophesy.
> Cersei became the Mad king incarnate and it cost him his last son, he has every reason to kill the person in power again.
> 
> Won't the death of Tommen, set off a new fight for the throne? OR can Cersei reign until a suitable heir can be created?
> Then again, if Jaime fulfills the prophesy...



I think Cersei can claim the throne through her marriage into House Baratheon (since the rest of the heirs to the house are dead) but I'm not sure.  If so, she could also lay claim to the Baratheon holdings in the Stormlands.  Not that those will help her too much.


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## FifthView

My guess is that Cersei holds the throne until Daenerys takes it.



X Equestris said:


> I think Cersei can claim the throne through her marriage into House Baratheon (since the rest of the heirs to the house are dead) but I'm not sure.  If so, she could also lay claim to the Baratheon holdings in the Stormlands.  Not that those will help her too much.



I don't know.  Gendry still exists somewhere.  I wonder what he's doing these days.


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## Steel Dragon

SeverinR said:


> I do think Jaime will fulfill the prophesy.
> Cersei became the Mad king incarnate and it cost him his last son, he has every reason to kill the person in power again.
> 
> Won't the death of Tommen, set off a new fight for the throne? OR can Cersei reign until a suitable heir can be created?
> Then again, if Jaime fulfills the prophesy...



It doesn't matter, because Daenerys is coming anyway, so is Jon (Jaehaerys) Targaryen, the new King in the North. There's going to be a fight for the throne anyway. But according to law, Cersie is kinda the last one standing of the Baratheon line. And she'll just give up having children, so there'll be no heir. She doens't care what happens to the thrine after she's dead.


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## X Equestris

FifthView said:


> My guess is that Cersei holds the throne until Daenerys takes it.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know.  Gendry still exists somewhere.  I wonder what he's doing these days.



True, but I'm not sure how many people even know Gendry is a Baratheon bastard.  I doubt it's enough to mount a serious campaign.


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## Legendary Sidekick

Milesandre can be his queen.

Fun times until Gendry wakes up at 3:00 am, notices the necklace on the bedside table next to a glass of water with dentures in it, looks back at his wife...


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## SeverinR

Just watched the whole season over the weekend. 
Arya found her name and her vengeance is unleashed. (I missed that scene before)
Jaime gave that look at Cersei, I think he could kill her. But Tyrion is heading back also.
We know Jon Snow is Jon Stark-Targaryen. (Mother was Lyanna Stark) So he has a right to be "King of the north" and Heir to the "Throne of swords".
The dragon horde is crossing the sea.

I do think someone needs to realize, they should try to find the secret to the Valyrian steel. Since it is one of the few things to kill a White walker.


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## SeverinR

They brought a lot together in season 6.
It does seem the end is rushing to the final conflicts.

Milesandra: I don't know what the future holds for her, but it won't be with Jon's group.
I think it might end with the three leaders ruling over the lands.  
Dany, Jon and Tyrion, each with their dragon.

Dany and Jon are Targaryens, is there a third Targaryen?


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## X Equestris

SeverinR said:


> Dany and Jon are Targaryens, is there a third Targaryen?



There are theories that Tyrion is Aerys' bastard son by Joanna Lannister, but the evidence so far isn't near as strong as it was for R+L=J.  Just a statement or two from Tywin and the fact that Aerys took "liberties" with the bedding ceremony at Tywin's wedding.  

The books had a boy claiming to be Rhaegar's son Aegon, who was supposedly spirited away from Kings Landing before the sack and replaced with a peasant baby.  However, there's much to suggest he's a Blackfyre pretender descended from the female line of House Blackfyre.  And since the show hasn't bothered touching this plot line yet, I think it's safe to say the Blackfyre theory is ultimately correct.


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## bestellen

Pretty sure the horse was also (un)dead.


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