# Fantasy Creature - Alternate history consequences?



## Cloud (May 29, 2014)

Hi all,

I'm looking for some assistance with my World Building.

I'm using an alternative history premise for my novel, *VIV* (working title). Western history progressed as per the text books, up until the Spanish colonization of South America in the 16th Century, where the history of *VIV* diverges.

In *VIV*, a type of primate is discovered in the jungle which does not exist in our world - the _Siervo_ (Spanish for servant). Similar in stature to a large chimpanzee, but with the long orange fur of an Orang-outang and the pronounced brow-ridge of a gorilla. These monkeys are smart, peaceful, friendly - and most importantly - consistently trainable and obedient in a way that no real monkeys are.

These creatures have been adopted by the local tribes for generations, to assist with hunting, gathering, carrying goods, etc. They're most the way towards domestication.

When the Spanish take them back to Europe, they're an instant hit. Every great lord and merchant around the Med wants one. Initially they're novelty, then fashion, but people develop a great love for the helpful monkeys - and soon wider applications are discovered as they're trained to assist with farming, construction work, sailing, etc. 

The Pope of VIV's timeline has always been in a moral quandry - slavery is wrong, but essential to the economic success of Christ's empire - so he's circumvented the issue by saying the it's only acceptable to enslave non-Christians. The boom of the Siervos is an answer to his prayers - there is now a viable alternative to human slavery! As such, the Pope bans human slavery of all kinds, and the Siervo is heralded by the Church and State as God's gift to mankind. Breeding, training, etc goes into overdrive and the humble Siervo monkey becomes a cornerstone of Western socienty - in the same way as dogs and horses, siervo's are man's best friends.

*Now here's where I need your help:*

The story of VIV is set in a steampunk era - post industrial revolution, steam and clockwork have been embraced as driving forms of power, but electricity is still lagging behind.

Running forward from the 16th century to an alternate version of the 19th century - trying to gauge the impact of Siervos on the passage of events and key points. War, culture, politics, art, etc - how could each of these (and more?) have been affected?

I'm struggling to keep track of all of the variations, so your help here is much appreciated.

Obviously I need to choose a timeline that steers the world towards the state I want it to be in for my main story, but at this stage I'm also looking to ferret out any interesting/quirky consequences that may not have occurred yet - so blue-sky thinking very much appropriate.

*Thanks for your help with this,
*Kind regards,
-C


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## Queshire (May 29, 2014)

Hmm... How common are they and how fast do they breed? 'Cuz I mean, if they're harder to get than a common slave then they will be less effective at replacing common slaves.


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## CupofJoe (May 30, 2014)

I think you have the answer yourself...
Start with how you want the world to be and reverse engineer the histories [and maybe the Siervo's abilities] to match.
As long as what you come up with is vaguely plausible, the reader should accept it... it is a fantasy they are reading after all.
Two things that does come across my mind are...
Such a perfect "slave" if it was to widely available would almost completely arrest any technological development. To many problems it would just be cheaper and easier to do it with their muscle than invest time and money to find another solution...
And the Pope's writ only applies to catholic countries.... Much of Northern Europe and further afield will just shrug their shoulders and move on... and then try and get their own Siervos by hook or crook.
Interesting set up - I look forward to seeing how it play out...


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## KC Trae Becker (May 30, 2014)

I wonder about the siervos themselves. What do they eat? Are they taught to use bathrooms? Will they be dressed up like circus animals? How smart are they? Do they learn sign language? Do they create art like many captive gorillas and chimps? How do they respond to music? Can they make music? Can they be taught to act? What kind of tricks can they be taught to do that would entertain humans? Do they interbreed with any other great apes to create popular half breeds?

How do humans interact morally with the species?  Are there some siervos that are trained to steal? Are there groups like PETA that demand humane treatment and push for equal rights? What about violent or sexually deviant humans, how do they interact with siervos? 

Are all siervos docile or are there strains that are more aggressive? Personally, I find the idea of docile monkeys a bit hard to swallow. Some may be more docile than others, but volatility is part of the nature of primates. But it's your fantasy world so don't take this opinion too seriously. There could be docile great apes. 

If you decide to create half breeds maybe some of these could be more prone to aggressive behavior. There could be laws against such breeding and black markets that deal in these types. There could also be "cock fight" clubs for watching aggressive siervos fight.

How strong are they? How tired do they get? How much do they eat? Are they prone to diseases? Are there any diseases that would affect both humans and siervos? Are there things they are afraid of? Can they be sent into a panic?

This is a great idea with endless possibilities! I'm looking forward to hearing more about where you go with this.


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## Cloud (May 30, 2014)

Queshire said:


> Hmm... How common are they and how fast do they breed? 'Cuz I mean, if they're harder to get than a common slave then they will be less effective at replacing common slaves.



Hmmm... good question. More applicable to the early years of my divergent time-line than 'modern day' implications, but worth hammering out. 

Initially, not overly common - a couple of thousand breeding pairs brought to Europe over the first 5 years or so, with no real breeding occurring. 
Then, low-intensity breeding as European enthusiasts learn how best to 'work' the animals. 
Then a boom as someone cracks how to manipulate their hormones/annual breeding cycles - leading to an intensive breeding regime, with a stud system, brood mares, specialisation and selective breeding, etc.

I'd need to sit down with a pen and paper to run the numbers, but I'm pretty sure it would only take a few generations of intensive breeding to achieve an exponential vote. It may not have been plausible for the papacy to outlaw slavery immediately, so I'll perhaps moderate that with a 'no new slaves' type thing - but I'm pretty sure the general scheme would fly.


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## IrelandBeaver (May 30, 2014)

Coming from a background of child development, I'm interested in how they move. If I read your post correctly, these creatures are the size of large chimps, but what is their locomotion like? Do they walk on their knuckles as other great apes do, or to they walk upright as humans. How are they with physical activities such as running or climbing? How developed are they with their fine motor skills (using their finger tips to pick things up, using tools)? I think how they move can impact how they are used. For example, if they have the capacity to pick up small objects such as coins or paper, then I could see them as a way to deliver messages or mail, within factories, households or even on the battlefield. If they cannot speak, then they could be used as covert messengers, and could be trained to eat/destroy paper if they are caught. Along the same lines of war, could they be trained to carry/use weapons. Perhaps armies could dress them as soldiers to appear as if they have a larger army. Plus, there is a possibility that, by learning how to use weapons, there could be uprisings with these creatures if they can reach that level of intelligence and sentience.

Going of of KC's idea about PETA, how do people refer to them. Do they use the species name, or do they just refer to them as creatures? Do humans name them as we name pets? I could see some people treat them as members of the family, while others see them as mindless animals.

In terms of politics, it could be a divisive subject for political parties. It could be that one party is for the enslavement of these creatures, while another is against the enslavement. You could possibly still have the American Civil War, but it could be more over the slavery of these creatures.


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## Cloud (Jun 1, 2014)

CupofJoe said:


> I think you have the answer yourself...
> Start with how you want the world to be and reverse engineer the histories [and maybe the Siervo's abilities] to match.
> As long as what you come up with is vaguely plausible, the reader should accept it... it is a fantasy they are reading after all.



My worry with that 'top-down' approach is that I'll end up with shallow world building. Sure, I'll get the bits that are 'necessary' for my story, but I won't get the kind of additional 'bottom-up' details that add depth, and cohesiveness to my world.


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## Terry Greer (Jun 1, 2014)

I'm a great follower of Cryptozoology and mine reports on cryptid animals for use in real (or near real) world settings.
So on that basis there's almost a real-live counterpart to what you're after - but in Asia not south america.

Quite recently a tiny primate was discovered on Flores which may even have existed up until historical times.
It was nicknamed the 'hobbit' in the news so you may have heard of it - but the following link is worth a look:

Homo floresiensis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
These were hominids so probably had language and tool use.

If you're dead set on south america there was the infamous giant ape reported in Bernard Heuvelaman's 'On the track of unknown animals' 







De Loys' Ape - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Though this is just a spider monkey relative.


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## Cloud (Jun 4, 2014)

CupofJoe said:


> I think you have the answer yourself...
> Two things that does come across my mind are...
> Such a perfect "slave" if it was to widely available would almost completely arrest any technological development. To many problems it would just be cheaper and easier to do it with their muscle than invest time and money to find another solution...
> And the Pope's writ only applies to catholic countries.... Much of Northern Europe and further afield will just shrug their shoulders and move on... and then try and get their own Siervos by hook or crook.
> Interesting set up - I look forward to seeing how it play out...



Interesting - I had actually drawn the opposite conclusion! With such abundant manpower, more people are freed up to study, experiment and explore, with accelerated development of the arts and sciences. I suppose, human nature being what it is, we would see things move in both directions, with some areas investing their increase in 'spare time' in luxury and decadence. That's not an aspect I'd thought through much - I'm building towards a clockwork-heavy steampunk era (harnessing all that extra muscle to wind elaborate clockwork machinery) - but there's definitely scope to explore the hedonistic mindset where people are reliant on the highly trained Siervos to provide a decent standard of living, while they... wallow...


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## Cloud (Jun 5, 2014)

KC Trae Becker said:


> I wonder about the siervos themselves. What do they eat? Are they taught to use bathrooms? 1. Will they be dressed up like circus animals?
> 2. How smart are they?
> 3. Do they learn sign language?
> 4. Do they create art like many captive gorillas and chimps?
> ...



1. No. Well, maybe some people will dress up their siervos, in the same way that some people will dress up their pet dogs - but most of them are working animals, and you don't often see sheepdog wearing little outfits.

2. Variable - like with dogs and horses - but generally, yes, they are bright animals. You know how 'helper dogs' for the disabled can do quite amazing things, fetching objects and keeping people safe, etc. I'm thinking that level of intelligence is pretty standard, with some bell-curve either side. 

3. Simple sign-language, yes. But if we re-wind out history, sign-language certainly wasn't an established standard in the 15th century, so rather than teaching the siervo our sign language, it's more like the hand-talk has evolved with siervos as the main users, and deaf usage is a secondary association.

4. I had some forms of artistic expression in mind for them - rhythmic percussion and dance. Haven't really thought about visual drawing/art, etc. I shall think on this 

5. (see 4)
6. (see 4)

7. Not really 'act' as in 'pretend'. More like, they can be taught to 'act' a certain way. Like, they can act calm and careful when they're around children, or carrying food, etc.

8. 

9. Rather than breeding with other apes, I'm having them selectively bred into different breeds (like dogs and horses) - eg, keep breeding the big ones to end up with a big gorilla-esque siervo, like the shire horse or St Berndard of siervos - suitable for heavy carrying work, like unloading boats at the docks, or hauling logs, etc. And little ones popular as pets (like shih tzus, or chihuahuas). Fast, aggressive siervos to use as guard dogs.


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## psychotick (Jun 7, 2014)

Hi,

Tricky. But first politics. 

If you suddenly have these new slaves - what happens to the old ones? Are they going to be emancipated? Will the prevalent slave trade of the seventeenth century and beyond suddenly end? What happens to countries where over the previous centuries large numbers of slaves were transported and over time became a significant part of the population? I'm thinking strongly of America of course. And what happens to the countries where those slaves were taken from? Are they forgotten? Left to deelope on their own?

Next technology. I can see science progressing, but technological development slowing. Why do you need steam engines etc when you have a cheaper, docile manual workforce? And what would be the effect on employment etc? If people cost coin to work in the fields and these new slaves don't, what happens? Mass unemployment? Rioting and protest by the starving masses? A reactionary assault on the new slaves?

I think you could argue that all of these things would happen. The challenge comes in working out what the outcomes would be.

Cheers, Greg.


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## Queshire (Jun 7, 2014)

I remember hearing once that if it wasn't for the cotton gin slavery would have died out in the US.


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## Cloud (Jun 10, 2014)

KC Trae Becker said:


> What kind of tricks can they be taught to do that would entertain humans?



I skipped past this one previously because I didn't know the answer. On reflection, there's a HUGE amount a circus could do with a siervo. First thing that jumped to mind was trapeze/acrobat, then clowns, synchronized dancing, magic tricks (instead of pulling a rabbit out the hat, etc)... once you start riffing on existing circus acts there are so many possibilities... crossover acts with other circus animals? Siervos with horses, elephants, lions and bears, etc. Siervo's trained in human 'skill' acts - knife throwing, juggling, contortionist, etc.


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## Cloud (Jun 26, 2014)

Quick note to myself - must explore the *criminal* uses siervos could be put to.

Pickpockets, climbing/jumping roles in heists, (assassins?), 'attack dogs/muscle/minions', mule/smuggling for controlled substances?


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