# Dissatisfaction in my work



## TheokinsJ (Apr 14, 2013)

It's something that has plagued me for the last few weeks, I only began writing my story a month or so ago, and now a couple of chapters in, I am constantly wrestling with the idea to scrap and rewrite. I think the stuff I write is good, I read it and it needs a bit of editing but on the whole it seems ok, yet I still feel the need to rewrite it. When I'm writing, I have this mentality of "This is not the final result, it doesn't have to be perfect", and this hinders me, especially when I AM try to write a flawless, final result. Example, I write chapter one a week ago, and it seems perfect. I wake up today, read it and think to myself "I need to rewrite this, it's ok... but it could be better". I don't mind doing this, it can only help me improve my writing, but it hinders me because I'm getting nowhere, I write a chapter and then decide to rewrite the past three, it's a continuous circle of writing then rewriting, any suggestions on how I could make progress and stop constantly questioning my own abilities?


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## teacup (Apr 14, 2013)

My advice would be to just keep writing until you finish your first draft. Then go back and rewrite.

For me I only had a vague outline of the plot when I started writing, but I just kept going, and now I've finished the first draft. The characters developed well, the story progressed greatly etc etc. Now though, looking back, the beginning half is just terrible. So I'm rewriting it, and actually enjoying it as much as I did the first write through.

This worked for me, so that's what I'd do.


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## Butterfly (Apr 14, 2013)

Just write the book and get it done. Pretty much ignore what you've already written and don't go looking back in any serious way until it's time for a second draft.

Then make revision and restructuring notes on a read through, then rewrite the wotsit out of it.

That is, of course, if that works for you.

I've spent years doing what you've done and really not got very far. Until, I learned to ignore the inner editor until it was time for actual editing. Now book one is nearly finished (needs a bit of restructuring of the ending) and book 2 is half done, in about 7 months as opposed to 7 years.


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## ndmellen (Apr 14, 2013)

I think everyone has the same problem to one extent or another. Honestly, the thing that helped me the most, simple as it is, was to tape "Create first, Edit second" right at the top of my laptop screen. In particular, looking at that little saying helped me force through many sticking points.

As for liking/ disliking your work, I think that that is fairly natural, too. It seems like, to have a good product, you have to have a fine balance of both. Supreme confidence in your work has to somehow coexist with hating it/ seeing nothing but flaws. 

I'm inclined to agree with the opinions above: just finish the outline, write the draft, edit it once, then take a break. During the break, have someone else read it. You already know the story back and forth, and will have a tendency to focus on the imperfections. A fresh set of eyes will provide more insight that your own weary ones.


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## PaulineMRoss (Apr 14, 2013)

One piece of advice I've seen which might help you is to keep track of the number of words you write each day - in a spreadsheet or just a graph on a piece of paper - and plot the cumulative numbers. As the numbers build up, it might encourage you to keep bashing out new stuff instead of rehashing the earlier chapters.


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## Guru Coyote (Apr 14, 2013)

I agree with what has been said here. The key is to finish the story before you rewrite it. Only if you have the whole thing before you can you really judge what works and what doesn't.

Another advice - something that helped me lately - is to work in smaller chunks. Write short stories. That way you can get a structure, plot, characters etc all in order and get it before other people's eyes. One key to satisfying work is *feedback* ... and you can only get meaningful feedback on a complete story. I've found entering the Iron Pen Challenge each time extremely helpful and educational.


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## Addison (Apr 14, 2013)

Just keep writing until the first draft is DONE. Not almost done, not "one more scene", completely done. Then you can go back with a happy red pen. But editing, deleting and all that as you go, constantly bouncing back and forth, not a good idea. If you have a nagging for a revision or how something should change, write it down on a different piece of paper or document and save it. 

The first draft has one goal. To get black on white. It's not supposed to be neat and perfect, that's why they're called Rough Drafts.


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## Jabrosky (Apr 14, 2013)

TheokinsJ said:


> It's something that has plagued me for the last few weeks, I only began writing my story a month or so ago, and now a couple of chapters in, I am constantly wrestling with the idea to scrap and rewrite. I think the stuff I write is good, I read it and it needs a bit of editing but on the whole it seems ok, yet I still feel the need to rewrite it.


If you actually don't see that much wrong with what you've written so far, I would concur with previous posters that you should continue. Exactly what is making you want to rewrite everything all over again?

I definitely have my own history of scrapping and re-writing stories over and over again, but in my case there usually _is _something majorly wrong with what I've written before. I know the people here would give me the same advice they're giving you, but I can't progress on a story if its foundations are not solid. Besides, even if I did finish a first draft, I'll probably have to rewrite the whole thing all over again anyway.


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## Penpilot (Apr 14, 2013)

I've been in the same boat, and from the responses, it's obviously a common thing.

Here's how I handle it. If I come up with ideas on how to edit a previous chapter. I go into that chapter and make notes using the commenting function either in word or in my case Scrivener. These are in depth notes describing what I would change and why, then continue writing as if I'd already made the changes. That usually satisfies my need to edit.

I don't go back and edit before finishing the draft because you learn more about your story as you progress through its writing, so there will be an accumulation of needed changes. It's better to do all those changes at once rather than one at a time. Why? Because one change may erase another, which results in wasted time. Imagine if you spent hours revising a a paragraph only to realize later that a change makes that paragraph redundant or unnecessary, or worse you spend a week revising a chapter only to realize that chapter isn't needed any longer. Other times, I realize after getting distance from the chapter the change isn't needed at all and the chapter works as-is.

Also all that time spent on a chapter/paragraph makes it all that much harder to discard. It becomes a bit of a darling and can cause you to want to shape the story so you can fit it back in, which is not always best for the story.


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## Velka (Apr 14, 2013)

Penpilot said:


> I've been in the same boat, and from the responses, it's obviously a common thing.
> 
> Here's how I handle it. If I come up with ideas on how to edit a previous chapter. I go into that chapter and make notes using the commenting function either in word or in my case Scrivener. These are in depth notes describing what I would change and why, then continue writing as if I'd already made the changes. That usually satisfies my need to edit.
> 
> ...



It's been a long and hard lesson to learn this, but you're totally right. I do the same thing in Scrivener; the notes function lets me satisfy my need to FIX IT NOW, without actually investing the time and effort into actually fixing it.

The shape of your story will change and you will murder your darlings. Spending time refining paragraphs or chapters that in the end will need to completely change, or end up in your graveyard folder, is a waste of time and creativity.


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## Jamber (Apr 14, 2013)

Do you know what really helped me? Jettisoning Word.
I'm not sure what program you're on, but Word always opens a document at the beginning of your story or novel. It's very easy to get trapped reviewing and editing what you've done so far, because you have to scroll to the end before you can continue the draft.

By contrast Scrivener is terrific for a creative writer -- you open it, and it kicks off at the place you were at when you shut it down. I expect many of the purpose-built writerly programs have a similar feature, so it's worth downloading and trying some free ones to see if they help.

I agree with everyone above: writing forward is the key.

However one other thing I've noticed myself, not sure it applies to you, is that much of that early drafting (at the very start, I mean) is about finding the right voice, tone, point of view/character, etc to tell a particular story. If those things weren't set perfectly early on they can make the writer uneasy with the work as it continues, which brings on episodes of tweaking and fiddling. It doesn't sound like that's your particular issue, but worth considering maybe.

Another (stray) thought on the edit-trap: it's really tempting when stuck or slightly uninspired at a later point in the novel to go back and tweak... One technique I've heard is to stop writing for the day _before_ you clinch or end a scene. I don't do that personally, but it makes sense to try to leave some forward momentum in your writing at whatever point you withdraw fingers from keys. Try to leave a question in your mind that only tomorrow's writing can answer!

You'll feel so great when the first draft is done, I promise--no matter what the flaws.

cheers
Jennie


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## ThinkerX (Apr 14, 2013)

To mangle a famous quote:

'Full speed ahead and d*mn the grammar.'

Make quickie notes or cludge fixes of the brilliant revisions, but no more as you do that first draft.

Of course, it helps knowing how things will turn out in the end and at key points along the way.  Those issues deserve careful thought and/or outlining beforehand; otherwise you could reach the mid point in your epic and find you've written yourself into a box.  That used to happen to me quite a bit.


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## Alex Beecroft (Apr 15, 2013)

I agree with everyone else. This is a common trap for writers. I know from my own process that around five chapters into every novel I write I will suddenly start thinking the entire thing is crap. The truth is that it's just your mind, trying to get you to stop doing something which is no longer an exciting novelty but which is starting to look like a hell of a lot of work. Ignore the feeling and carry on writing until the end. Then put the first draft aside for two or three weeks. When you get back to it I guarantee you'll read it and think "you know what? This is actually pretty damn good!"

Actually I've just written a blog post on this very subject, which you might find reassuring:
Alex Beecroft – Author of Gay Historical and Fantasy Fiction Â» Blog Archive Â» Write On: write on.


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## T.Allen.Smith (Apr 15, 2013)

I addition to all the great advice above, consider you're daily improvement. By writing every day you're writing will get better & better. 

It never fails that the last half of anything I write is better than the first. Part of that rests in what others already said...you know the story, the setting, and the world better after writing for awhile. Also though, you've improved as a writer. 

Considering my second half is going to be better quality writing than the first, do I really want to spin my wheels perfecting an early scene that will, more than likely, require greater revision than recently written scenes? No, I don't.

Great books are written during revision.


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## BWFoster78 (Apr 15, 2013)

I've read a lot of advice above saying, "Just finish your work."

I'm inferring that this admonition is meant to be heeded regardless of circumstances, and I'm not sure I agree.

To the OP:

Where are you in your writing career?  Are you good enough to know that what you're producing is or isn't complete crap?

At some point, your focus needs to be on finishing new material.  Until you get to a stage where you can produce good material, finishing, imo, isn't any better than not finishing.

I've long advocated that:

1. Write something
2. Get feedback
3. Revise based on that feedback
4. Go back to step 2

is the path to improvement.  

Basically, to me, your initial post didn't provide enough information to answer the question.  Do you need to focus on finishing or on improvement?


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## skip.knox (Apr 15, 2013)

And just about the time I think what I've written is pretty damned good, I put it out for critique and am humbled. 

I've concluded that I can tell whether or not I like it, but I can't tell whether or not it's good.


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## Penpilot (Apr 15, 2013)

BWFoster78 said:


> I've read a lot of advice above saying, "Just finish your work."
> 
> At some point, your focus needs to be on finishing new material.  Until you get to a stage where you can produce good material, finishing, imo, isn't any better than not finishing.



I disagree with this. How do you get to a level of producing "good" material if you never finish anything? If all you're ever doing is starting a story and never finishing, then all you ever do is practice starting a story. You may get better at starting the story but you'll never get practice at pushing through the mid-point sags or pulling story elements together for the big finish, so you'll never get better at developing the middle and end of a story.

That's why people recommend writing short stories. It's a way for a writer to go through the process of starting a story, going through the middle, ending it, then editing, without having to produce a novel length work.

Not finishing is like only working out the left side of your body. The right side will remain weak.


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## BWFoster78 (Apr 15, 2013)

Penpilot said:


> I disagree with this. How do you get to a level of producing "good" material if you never finish anything? If all you're ever doing is starting a story and never finishing, then all you ever do is practice starting a story. You may get better at starting the story but you'll never get practice at pushing through the mid-point sags or pulling story elements together for the big finish, so you'll never get better at developing the middle and end of a story.
> 
> That's why people recommend writing short stories. It's a way for a writer to go through the process of starting a story, going through the middle, ending it, then editing, without having to produce a novel length work.
> 
> Not finishing is like only working out the left side of your body. The right side will remain weak.



I get what you're saying, but you're making assumptions about the underlying problem/level of the writer's ability.  My contention is still that we don't have enough information really to advise him.  

1. The only way to truly learn to write a novel is to write a novel, not a short story.  If someone doesn't want to produce short fiction, I see no reason to try to learn by writing them.  If you want to learn how to write a novel, learning to create a complete chapter seems more important than the ability to write a novelette.

2. Writing well involves a lot of learning, both from a technique standpoint and a storytelling standpoint.  I feel you can learn an awful lot about both of them by looking at an isolated part of your story.  Frankly, I you have no idea how to convey tension and emotion and how to set up scenes or what information needs to be included for your story, finishing a work is simply a huge waste of time.  You end up having squandered months producing material that is pretty much worthless.

Maybe the OP would benefit from finishing a story; I don't know enough to tell him.  At the same time, I don't think the rest of the posters have enough information to tell him that the best use of his time and effort is to finish.


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## Penpilot (Apr 15, 2013)

BWFoster78 said:


> 1. The only way to truly learn to write a novel is to write a novel, not a short story.  If someone doesn't want to produce short fiction, I see no reason to try to learn by writing them.  If you want to learn how to write a novel, learning to create a complete chapter seems more important than the ability to write a novelette.



Isn't this a bit of a contradiction to your second statement? Here you're saying that you can only learn to write something big, like a novel, by writing something big, instead of focusing in on something small like a short story, but in the second statement you say you should focus on the small, like a scene, before going on to something larger.

Writing a short story won't teach you how to write a novel, but it will help you develop some of the skills needed as you mention, tension, emotion, etc, but it has a broader focus than just writing a scene. In a short story you learn to deal with a complete story instead of a fragment. In a short story you have to learn how to connect story elements up so they mean something at the end. In a scene those connections don't have to be made, so the writer doesn't ever get practice in that. If an author is going to write 3000 words as practice, why not practice bringing up your skills in a broader sense instead of being so narrowly focused?



BWFoster78 said:


> 2. Writing well involves a lot of learning, both from a technique standpoint and a storytelling standpoint.  I feel you can learn an awful lot about both of them by looking at an isolated part of your story.  Frankly, I you have no idea how to convey tension and emotion and how to set up scenes or what information needs to be included for your story, finishing a work is simply a huge waste of time.  You end up having squandered months producing material that is pretty much worthless.



This supports why some should practice on writing short stories. One common thing for new writers is they always have a cool scene in mind. They write that scene but don't know how it fits into a the story as a whole. IMHO too narrow a focus is one of the big issues of new writers. They focus in on the small, cool elements when they should be looking at the big picture. When you know the purpose of a scene and what it should be doing within the context of a novel, all the little things that were problems become easier to fix. 

Tension and emotion aren't isolated to a single scene. In a novel those things carry over to the work as a whole. If a writer doesn't learn to deal with those connections, then it's just random scenes set next to each other, and as a whole they won't function very well, if at all. That's why it's important to finish. Finishing lets you deal with big picture things like the story telling. Finishing gives the author a greater understanding of their story and what true flaws and strengths it has. Perceived weaknesses on the micro level can turn into strengths on the macro and vice versa when you can see the whole story in front of you.

From my experience, others peoples may differ, I learned a lot more from finishing a crappy novel than I ever did writing story fragments, scenes, parts of scenes, etc. because of the reasons I stated above about having a narrow focus.

This is why I think finishing matters, even if what you finish is crap.


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## BWFoster78 (Apr 15, 2013)

> Isn't this a bit of a contradiction to your second statement?



No.  It's an acknowledgement that writing short form and writing novels require two different skill sets.  Writing a short story isn't necessarily going to do anything for a novel writer, and I wouldn't advocate anyone write other forms unless they want to for personal reasons.



> Tension and emotion aren't isolated to a single scene. In a novel those things carry over to the work as a whole. If a writer doesn't learn to deal with those connections, then it's just random scenes set next to each other, and as a whole they won't function very well, if at all.



I agree; I never say that you should never finish.  I just think it's extremely inefficient to start composing whole novels before you're ready.  And, as stated above, I don't feel that anyone should try to convince a novelist that writing short stories is somehow good for them.


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## TheokinsJ (Apr 16, 2013)

BWFoster78 said:


> I've read a lot of advice above saying, "Just finish your work."
> 
> I'm inferring that this admonition is meant to be heeded regardless of circumstances, and I'm not sure I agree.
> 
> ...



In terms of my writing skill, I believe my writing is pretty good, it's not perfect- no one's is, but it's not so much my writing that I want to focus on, it's more on finishing and actually making progress with the story, rather than editing whilst writing.


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## advait98 (Apr 16, 2013)

Well, there we go.

We've had the same argument in way too many threads now, in my opinion. In the end, it's what the writer wants that matters.

Saying that, I'll sneak in my opinion.
Your writing is going to improve as you write, as T Allen Smith said, and if the improvement is reflected in the later part of the story rather than just after revising an isolated part of the novel that you haven't been able to progress past.

For a young and new writer, I'd say that finishing the work is the desired goal. Our writing may suck, but it isn't going to get all that much better if we shred and rip apart one scene that we wrote, rather than going on with the story. 
Improvement follows writing, that much is true, and for a young and fresh writer, maybe progressing is the best option. The different nuances (is that the right word?) of writing will accumulate and develop over time, with a finished draft and plot to boot.


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## Guru Coyote (Apr 16, 2013)

There's another argument to be made for the importance of finishing:
It gives you something to show to others. Sounds obvious but consider this:
1. Write
2. Get feedback
3. incorporate the feedback
4. Repeat
... is the accepted formula for improving one's skills. For step 2.) Get feedback, you need to have something that people will want to read, esp if you are going to rely on them to do this repeatedly. A finished story will do that. Feeding your test-audience with only fragments will not help.

Another thing about this process of steps is that it helps the learning AND the motivation to keep the loop fairly tight. One of the big frustrations of writing is the extended periods of isolated work without feedback. Hmmm.... Actually, that argument could be used to champion handing out your WiP in chunks, chapter by chapter.... oh well.


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## Alex Beecroft (Apr 16, 2013)

The ability to finish a novel is one of the things beginning writers need to practice. It brings with it the ability to practice writing a good ending, the ability to practice maintaining interest and persistence through the middle, the knowledge of what you do when you write yourself into a corner or something odd happens you didn't intend, the ability to balance the needs of two or more plot threads at once , and the ability to create a whole work, finished to the best degree the writer can manage at the time. None of these things can be practiced without actually doing them. You want to practice the skill of finishing your novels, you have to finish your novels.


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## Jhunter (Apr 16, 2013)

I am plagued by something similar. I can't write a chapter without editing it once I am done. I write a chapter, then edit the chapter every time.


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## Guru Coyote (Apr 16, 2013)

Jhunter said:


> I am plagued by something similar. I can't write a chapter without editing it once I am done. I write a chapter, then edit the chapter every time.



That's not so bad... as long as it doesn't turn into an infinite loop! I, for one, also try to write/edit in relatively short intervals, simply because I know... once I finish it, I may not touch it again. The TRICK is keep on pushing the story forward also. What the OP described sounded more like creating an infinite loop of revision the same material over and over. 

I'd argue that as long as there is forward movement, going back from time to time is ok. Two steps ahead, one back. That ok, it just means it will take longer. But you will eventually finish.


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## Jhunter (Apr 16, 2013)

Guru Coyote said:


> That's not so bad... as long as it doesn't turn into an infinite loop! I, for one, also try to write/edit in relatively short intervals, simply because I know... once I finish it, I may not touch it again. The TRICK is keep on pushing the story forward also. What the OP described sounded more like creating an infinite loop of revision the same material over and over.
> 
> I'd argue that as long as there is forward movement, going back from time to time is ok. Two steps ahead, one back. That ok, it just means it will take longer. But you will eventually finish.




Yeah, It doesn't turn into an infinite loop, that is for sure. Though, I do have a tendency to copy edit the chapters as well.


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## skip.knox (Apr 17, 2013)

Jhunter said:


> I am plagued by something similar. I can't write a chapter without editing it once I am done. I write a chapter, then edit the chapter every time.



Lucky!  I can't even write a chapter, first time out of the gate. I write scenes. This one goes "somewhere near the start, maybe the first but I don't really know yet and heck I don't even know if I'll even keep one of the characters".  Another one feels like it goes near the end but maybe it won't because if I start the novel over here then that puts it more like the middle and ....

It doesn't even start to look like a chapter until well into the process. Every once in a while I'll get something that feels really self-contained and it turns out to be of proper length to make a chapter, but frankly I'm mystified by writers who can somehow magically start at the beginning and move forward chapter by chapter.

And yes I do outline. The bloody outline is as fluid as the writing. Fluider!


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## advait98 (Apr 17, 2013)

Same here. It's simply wondrous how people write in chapters to me. I was starting to think I was doing something wrong... And yes, the parts I write are outlined. 

Considering that I write in a notebook, and the only way I can edit is with a red pen (or green, or yellow), I find it a highly unattractive prospect. I'm a fan of not editing till you finish, though, so it works out well. Can't see anything wrong with editing a teensy bit as long as you go on with the story. Wouldn't be a problem then. 

Chapters are overrated in my opinion; there's plenty of time to divide the story later on when you've finished. It would be arduous going to all the trouble of going by the story in fixed chapters to me. Better to just gather it up in a huge glob first, and see to the chapters afterwards. Or maybe that's just me being lazy. But I can't foresee my story ahead of what I've already written in terms of chapters and fixed divisions. So what I do seems reasonable.


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## Guru Coyote (Apr 17, 2013)

Writing in disjointed scenes... yes, I do that too. At least at first, when the story is not yet well formed. I often start with a document where I just jot down anything that comes to mind... fragments of scenes, dialogue, facts I want to convey... sometimes I'll just keep writing scenes as they come to me, not worrying about proper order or over all story. Later... I'll sit down with all these scraps of story and see how they fit together, how I can arrange them to form a whole.

Sometimes, all of the above happens in my head, no actual writing involved. The story forms over days... and then I can just sit down and write an outline and actually write the story from start to end. But note: just because I write it from start to end according to my outline does not mean that's how it came to be... it started as a cloud of ideas!

[Update:] Some years ago, I wrote about this in terms of using Tinderbox... The general idea applies to anything though (you can do this with PostIts or in your head)
Traumwind - Tinderbox: going from cloud to text


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## Guru Coyote (Apr 18, 2013)

After having gone off-topic in this thread a bit... I just read this blog post which I think is VERY relevant to the OP... as it is all about Loving What You Write:
Pretentious Title: The real reason I write every day


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## Jhunter (Apr 18, 2013)

I have a broad outline for my series as a whole, as well as outlines for random cool scene ideas that I will stick in future chapters (I randomly think of cool scenes all the time, so I jot down a fast outline for them when it happens). But, I without a doubt, have complete outlines for my chapters before I write them. I know exactly what is going into them--at least the next six or so. After that I have to spend a few days outlining the rest. I do change things frequently though, my initial chapter outlines are far from perfect. I should also point out that my chapter outlines are kind of broad, I know the main elements and key scenes, but I discovery write at least 50% of them.

A big reason I have so many chapters planned already is because I have had to re-write this manuscript dozens of times--because I suck, haha. I have learned a lot over the past two years. But, while I did my many re-writes, I still kept planning the rest of the book and series. So it has left me a little ahead now that I have found my voice and style. My current re-write should be the last one before I go full steam on finishing the book.


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## Nobby (Apr 19, 2013)

Nothing you write is ever "done" in my opinion.

Just charge on until you can charge no more. If that is the end of a tale, then god bless you. 

Then you can break your head on nibbling at the (perceived) faults


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## Addison (Apr 21, 2013)

Heck even when a book is published it isn't done. Every time a reader picks it up and reads it they are engaged. They day dream about being in the book, their own adventures with the characters. The book grows inside them and through to others.


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