# What makes a heroic sacrifice?



## Jabrosky (May 12, 2014)

I'd like to incorporate a heroic sacrifice into one of my stories sometime. What I mean by this is that my protagonist performs an action for the ultimate good that costs them something else they personally hold dear. They could sacrifice their original motivation if that comes into conflict with the right thing to do. Alternately, if they're aiming for the right thing to do in the first place, they could sacrifice something on the sideline that they nonetheless care about very deeply. The important thing for me is that the protagonist loses something important for a moral reason.

I don't think heroic sacrifice _necessarily_ has to invoke the protagonist's physical death. If anything, in an action-packed story saturated with life-threatening situations, that sounds rather lazy to me unless the protagonist starts out cowardly or weak in a story about bravery or toughness.

Anyone have their own thoughts on the theme of heroic sacrifice?


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## Feo Takahari (May 12, 2014)

I think the most important point is whether or not the character making the sacrifice could have avoided it. The second most important point is whether that character's allies missed an opportunity to avert it. No possibility is necessarily wrong, but each has a different impact on the narrative.

I was going to say that I don't think I've written a heroic sacrifice, but I realized I have done one--the protagonist's final scene in How Equestria Was Made. She spends the whole story pushing away everyone who could help her, trying to solve all her problems herself, and ends up in a situation where the only way to save other lives is to, essentially, die. It's not exactly heroic, and I write it as a grotesque and horrific scene, but it's the closest thing she has to a triumph within the narrative. (Of course, the impact would have been entirely different if there'd never been a point when she could have gotten out alive.)


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## Jabrosky (May 13, 2014)

Feo Takahari said:


> I think the most important point is whether or not the character making the sacrifice could have avoided it. The second most important point is whether that character's allies missed an opportunity to avert it. No possibility is necessarily wrong, but each has a different impact on the narrative.


One of the stories I am developing involves a three-point conflict, and the protagonist's faction starts out supporting the antagonist's against a third faction. The protagonist, who started out well-respected within her faction, realizes that they've backed the wrong team, but her peers don't believe it and alienate her. What this means is that she has to sacrifice her former popularity in the name of righteousness.

(I should note that I've just come up with this idea and that I can't even make up my mind about the setting or the conflict's scale.)


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## psychotick (May 13, 2014)

Hi,

In Dragon I wrote an entire book about it - an almost single POV work where the hero has single mindedly destroyed himself just to find out what happened to his family. But the thing is that he would never see what he was doing as heroic in the least. Turning his life into one never-ending (until the end of course) quest. Throwing away his future, his carreer, his health as he turned to drugs to aid him, and even his freedom as he committed crimes that would have got him years behind bars. It's only right at the end when he dies (?) on the bridge of his battleship that the entire story comes together in one scene and you realise that his entire life has been a sacrifice.

And that's why the ending was right for the book. If he'd lived, done the victory dance etc, it would have made all the sacrifice he'd done to get there seem less. But dying - knowing that he'd saved his family - that completed the sacrifice.

That's what's important about a sacrifice. That you willingly give up something precious - like your life - for something even more precious. And it's not always about choice. My hero could have chosen another path. But the reality was that he simply couldn't. It wasn't who he was. In the end the only thing that ever mattered to him was his family.

Cheers, Greg.


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## Butterfly (May 13, 2014)

... When those he saves will never know...


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## Scribble (May 13, 2014)

The key is sacrifice, and it doesn't have to be a life in the material sense, it can be what we _value_ as much as (or more) than a life. 

We want things, we need things, and when we give them up, we sacrifice a part of ourselves, a vision of ourselves, a hope for ourselves. 

People give up opportunities to take care of loved ones, they give up chasing ambitions to do something they feel is greater than them. They make a choice to sacrifice. In this view, the world is filled to bursting with heroes: moms, dads, teachers, social workers, florists, factory workers, and farmers - and so heroic stories can be found everywhere there are people, you don't need shiny armor and a sword.


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## Chessie (May 13, 2014)

Psychotik, your story sounds awesome. That's a good example of a heroic sacrifice if I ever saw one. 




Scribble said:


> People give up opportunities to take care of loved ones, they give up chasing ambitions to do something they feel is greater than them. They make a choice to sacrifice.


Yes. And as has been mentioned already, it doesn't always get to be a choice. Although its just as interesting when it is. In one of the stories I'm putting together, the protagonist is sacrificing her morals--and entire life--in the name of science. What she's doing is bad and she feels tremendous guilt over it, but she doesn't see any other way to benefit the higher good. She believes that life circumstance has forced her to do these things because of her skills. She's the only person that can help end a plague (or so the thinks). In the end, she loses everything/everyone she loves, but it comes at a heavy karmic cost that doesn't have anything to do with the law. 

Heroic sacrifice is a great way to give readers a lasting impression of a story. Its saying "here's something more to think about when you're done reading".


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## Scribble (May 13, 2014)

Chesterama said:


> Psychotik, your story sounds awesome. That's a good example of a heroic sacrifice if I ever saw one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Great comment.

These are tragic heroes, who never get peace for their struggle, yet they keep fighting the fight, whether because of duty, honor, a sense of responsibility - it may (and often is) one they _never_ wanted, up to the last minute of their lives.

Should they have just accepted their lot, would they have transformed into some kind of angelic hero? Maybe a bittersweet ending for an unwilling martyr is all the more poignant to make us think about things. People always seem to want that big glorious "something else" instead of what is before them.


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## hots_towel (May 13, 2014)

Chesterama said:


> Its saying "here's something more to think about when you're done reading".


this is pretty much my goal with my writing. 

maybe im just bitter and boring, but i couldnt write fiction solely for fiction's sake. I have this strange need to give the reader something else to chew on when they put the book down, whether or not they agree with me. its odd though, because i can watch a movie or tv show that offers nothing but a few hours of entertainment, or a message we've all heard a million times already. 

its the reason im looking into a lot of philosophy for my next project. and pulling out old diary entries of things i would think about in the shower (for some reason i do all my critical thinking in there).


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## skip.knox (May 13, 2014)

In theory, the heroic sacrifice is easy. You just keep making your hero choose between bad options. Each time, the choice backs him/her further into a corner until you get them to the final one. That way, the choice feels inevitable to the reader. The hero must choose between two things he loves, or two things he fears. Either way, someone loses.

For example, in my WIP I have two friends, one of whom is dedicated to a particular task. At the end, the other friend must choose: protect his friend but allow the task to fail, or see the task through but risk his friend's life. 

Each choice has to be meaningful. Each choice has to seem right from one point of view, and wrong from another. Psychotick's story is interesting because the choice is made early, and the rest of the tale is about living with the consequences of that choice. 

One other thing worth considering. It's natural to have a heroic sacrifice be a tragedy. Something is lost. But the sacrifice can be redemptive (e.g., psychotick's story) as well. I suppose it could even be comic.


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## Scribble (May 13, 2014)

hots_towel said:


> this is pretty much my goal with my writing.
> 
> maybe im just bitter and boring, but i couldnt write fiction solely for fiction's sake. I have this strange need to give the reader something else to chew on when they put the book down, whether or not they agree with me. its odd though, because i can watch a movie or tv show that offers nothing but a few hours of entertainment, or a message we've all heard a million times already.
> 
> its the reason im looking into a lot of philosophy for my next project. and pulling out old diary entries of things i would think about in the shower (for some reason i do all my critical thinking in there).



Well thank goodness! There's enough writing going on by people who have _nothing _to say!


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## Feo Takahari (May 13, 2014)

skip.knox said:


> One other thing worth considering. It's natural to have a heroic sacrifice be a tragedy. Something is lost. But the sacrifice can be redemptive (e.g., psychotick's story) as well. I suppose it could even be comic.



Courtesy of Lee Sang Shin. (Sorry for the shoddy translation; this is the only one I could find.)


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## Helen (May 16, 2014)

Jabrosky said:


> I don't think heroic sacrifice _necessarily_ has to invoke the protagonist's physical death.



That's right. _Casablanca_ comes to mind.


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## Addison (May 16, 2014)

When I think heroic sacrifices I think of Aslan's sacrifice in The Lion, Witch and the Wardrobe. I think of Anna saving Elsa in Frozen. John Smith throwing himself in front of the Indian Chief to take the bullet. 

But there is more than one way for a character to die. A character can lose their physical being, they can sacrifice something of their livelihood like their multi-million business. They could willingly go with the alien invaders as a specimen to save the entire population from annihilation.


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## SineNomine (May 16, 2014)

I just want to second that you really have to be careful with making sure there are no alternatives to achieve the same result.  If your readers can think of another way that doesn't require the sacrifice it will negate the effectiveness of the scene if not sap the enjoyment of the entire story.  Nothing is worse than the narrative creating the tone for "heroic sacrifice" while your mind is just screaming "stupid, obviously inferior decision".


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## psychotick (May 17, 2014)

Hi,

You mean like finding another active volcano to drop a ring in? I'm sure they're all much the same temperature.

Cheers, Greg.


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## Darkfantasy (May 17, 2014)

It's a good idea, the hero can't win all the time. A sacrifice always has to be something the protagonist cares about so ask yourself what does he/she love most? What does he/she need to accomplish her goal?

You could kill a person or animal something she loves.
Or you could take away from her something she needs to get her end goal. Example what about her memory? How can she achieve anything if she doesn't remember her goal, her fight, her friends, or even who she is.


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## Terry Greer (May 18, 2014)

Noble sacrifices can go wrong as well and lead to unintended consequences - there's also a famous saying ' No good deed goes unpunished'.

Many noble sacrifices have been for the wrong reasons, or for the losing side in a war. Even evil empires have their zealots that perform (for them) noble sacrifices - you only have to look at suicide terrorists today.

What happens when two noble sacrifices cancel out to form a meaningless tragedy? 

You could argue that these are not noble sacrifices, but why? For the people making them at the time they're certainly noble.

A really good example in recent fiction is Walter Whites character arc in Breaking Bad. Which apart from being outstanding writing also managed to explore some of the hypocrisy that can surround some 'noble sacrifices' while showing real nobility in others (such as in Hank - who we initially think of as a jerk).


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## SineNomine (May 20, 2014)

psychotick said:


> Hi,
> 
> You mean like finding another active volcano to drop a ring in? I'm sure they're all much the same temperature.
> 
> Cheers, Greg.



Find me someone who has never wondered "Why didn't they just fly on the eagles?!" at some point in their lives!


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## skip.knox (May 21, 2014)

SineNomine said:


> Find me someone who has never wondered "Why didn't they just fly on the eagles?!" at some point in their lives!



Me. I've read the novel numerous times. Heck, I've read the entire thing aloud, first to my wife, then to my two sons, and then to my daughter. Never once did that thought cross my mind. I was too caught up in the story to start a meta-commentary.


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