# Weapons Without Metal



## Centerfield97 (Jan 19, 2013)

Been thinking about this...if you had to make weapons but you couldn't use metal (or only very little), what would they be?  Can be anything from clubs to explosives to siege weapons...and obviously they can have Special wood in them or something if you so choose.


----------



## Wanara009 (Jan 19, 2013)

Centerfield97 said:


> Been thinking about this...if you had to make weapons but you couldn't use metal (or only very little), what would they be?  Can be anything from clubs to explosives to siege weapons...and obviously they can have Special wood in them or something if you so choose.



I like mundanity, so I won't use any 'magical material' or 'phlebotinium' in my answer. 

I would go straight with obsidian blades like the Incans/Mayan/Aztec. Those things are basically glass and glass produce one of the sharpest naturally occurring edge in the world.

If that's not available, I go with bones and/or stones. Easily accessible almost anywhere on earth (unless you live in Antarctica). Older bows and arrow is made out either wood or horns so that won't be a problem.

Making explosive is surprisingly easy, since you can get almost every ingredient for black powder from your surroundings. Nitrate for example, can be extracted from decomposing dead body and/or decomposing human waste, Saltpetre can be taken out of urine, sulphur aka brimstone from nearby volcano, etc, etc. Put them in a pouch of cured leather or a glass flask, put a fuse (a rope dipped in oil would do), and bombs away.

Siege engine without metal would probably be the same as what we had in real life, just without the benefit of metal bolts to held it together. The battering for example, would have to use stone a one end.

There's also a way of (somewhat) fireproofing wood too with zinc chloride, ferric chloride, boric acid, and ammonium phosphate. This solves that annoying problem of wooden weapons/siege engine/structure being vulnerable to fire


----------



## Alexandra (Jan 19, 2013)

Metal-free weapons, no problem—I'd make a bow and arrows. I made them in my childhood, I'm sure I still could as an adult (at least I hope I still could ). I know how to make slings too but I was never any good with them, I was much better with a bow.


----------



## Centerfield97 (Jan 19, 2013)

Well without metal how would you make effective arrowheads?  Also, how would you replace something like a sword, aside from obsidian (which I believe is very fragile and rare)?


----------



## Ireth (Jan 19, 2013)

Centerfield97 said:


> Well without metal how would you make effective arrowheads?  Also, how would you replace something like a sword, aside from obsidian (which I believe is very fragile and rare)?



I hear flint is very good for weapons once you get it to a sharp point or edge.


----------



## Anders Ã„mting (Jan 19, 2013)

Centerfield97 said:


> Been thinking about this...if you had to make weapons but you couldn't use metal (or only very little), what would they be?  Can be anything from clubs to explosives to siege weapons...and obviously they can have Special wood in them or something if you so choose.



I'd go with ceramic edged weapons. 



Ireth said:


> I hear flint is very good for weapons once you get it to a sharp point or edge.



Glass is better. You can shape it the same was as flint only it's sharper and I think it's easier to work with as well.


----------



## Wanara009 (Jan 19, 2013)

Centerfield97 said:


> Well without metal how would you make effective arrowheads?  Also, how would you replace something like a sword, aside from obsidian (which I believe is very fragile and rare)?



Obsidian is basically volcanic glass and you can make some by melting sand to make a very crude version of it.

And no, obsidian is fragile _if_ used or improperly stored (e.g.: its edge is always in contact with something hard during the storage duration). With the correct storage technique, it's edge can last for a very long time.


----------



## Alexandra (Jan 19, 2013)

Centerfield97 said:


> Well without metal how would you make effective arrowheads?  Also, how would you replace something like a sword, aside from obsidian (which I believe is very fragile and rare)?



Flint worked for real ancient peoples, I'm sure it would work for me. Also, in a pinch the arrows could be pointed and then fire-hardened–granted not the best solution but you can kill many things with pointed sticks. I wouldn't worry about replacing something such as a sword, if I can't use metal would I even know about edged weapons such as swords? I'd equip myself with a staff for those close encounters, with one end sharpened and fire-hardened–did I mention killing things with pointed sticks?


----------



## The Tourist (Jan 19, 2013)

Do you mean all metal, including copper, gold or titanium, or just iron based alloys?


----------



## Centerfield97 (Jan 19, 2013)

All metals.


----------



## Hate (Jan 19, 2013)

Glass could be an effective weapon when made and used correctly.


----------



## Centerfield97 (Jan 19, 2013)

Is it possible to make glass without metal, or with few metal-based compounds?


----------



## The Tourist (Jan 19, 2013)

I believe you can, it's only crystal that is "leaded."

I use some glassiers glass from the turn of the 19th century to polish bevels.  It's so clear it's scary, and it looks like it was made yesterday.  Obviously they knew how to purify sand.


----------



## psychotick (Jan 19, 2013)

Hi,

If you were going the stone route I'd tend to stay away from the volcanic glasses because of their fragility. There are stones that have been used for thousands of years that can be sharpened a lot and used repeatedly. Greenstone in particular springs to mind. It's a lot of work to make a greenstone axe, but it's an excellent weapon.

As for bows and arrows, that's a big yes for me. The arrow heads can be made of a small shard of stone, or simply wood that's been hardened. If they chip that's ok, because arrows are easily made / replaced.

As for siege engines, my fave would be the trebuchet by miles, simply for it's elegance and its range. But, and I'm not sure where I heard this, cannon have been made without metal. I think mythbusters looked at a bamboo cannon once. So I'd have no trouble imagining a cannon made out of a nicely carved hunk of granite - though I'm not quite sure how you'd carve it.

Also, though I have no skill with them, whips and lassoo's can be very useful as well.

Cheers, Greg.


----------



## Cursive (Jan 19, 2013)

Bones and stuff like bamboo would probably make for good weapons. Polynesians used alot of club type weapons made of wood.


----------



## wordwalker (Jan 19, 2013)

The thing about obsidian is, although it does break if used roughly, it can also have just about the sharpest edges in the non-industrial world. One Central American weapon used obsidian "teeth" set in a wooden sword-- and it's believed it could cut straight *through* a whole unarmored body. (Once. After that too many of the teeth come out.)

But besides glass, I think your choices are mostly stone and wood-- and also bone and teeth. Which doesn't sound that useful, unless it's a _monster's_ supertough bones and teeth, and its hide for armor or shield-covers. I've always wanted to write about a world that made its best weapons that way; the larger fangs would make perfect spearheads, every smaller fang is an arrowhead, but axes and swords would be rare unless there was a way to chip and carve larger edges out of them. Maces might work, if some bones were super-dense, since weight's what matters there.

One other part of natural weapon supplies: poison.


----------



## Anders Ã„mting (Jan 19, 2013)

Alexandra said:


> Flint worked for real ancient peoples,



And real modern people, for that matter - there have been stone-age level tribes that survived to modern times and they still made their arrowheads the same way.


----------



## The Tourist (Jan 19, 2013)

I thought some more about bone.  Ya' know, you could take the marrow out of a leg bone and make a blow-gun.  In effect, a skeleton is a primitive hardware store.  Every size bone would have a use.


----------



## Rho (Jan 20, 2013)

I'm not entirely sure how realistic this idea is but a wooden sword sharpened to a razor edge and then dipped and treated in tree resins would make a reasonable weapon against other like swords etc.
(this isn't my idea but is from Raymond E Feist's Rift world saga) one I'd like to use myself if I can work through a few issues.


----------



## CupofJoe (Jan 20, 2013)

The wood Lignum Vitae is so dense it sinks in water and I remember in woodworking class making a letter opener out of it. It would cut oranges with no real effort and had a great point... so a sword should be possible.
It is also what Merlin's staff was supposedly made of.


----------



## WyrdMystic (Jan 20, 2013)

Whips made from leather - cat of 9 if you sharpen finger bones or animal teeth. You could strap an elephants tusk to a plank or to your arm....or could rip off a zombies arm and beat someone to death with the soggy end.


----------



## Mary C. Moore (Jan 20, 2013)

Rope comes to mind, for hanging, gagging, tie upping etc...


----------



## wordwalker (Jan 20, 2013)

WyrdMystic said:


> Whips made from leather - cat of 9 if you sharpen finger bones or animal teeth. You could strap an elephants tusk to a plank or to your arm....or could rip off a zombies arm and beat someone to death with the soggy end.





Mary C. Moore said:


> Rope comes to mind, for hanging, gagging, tie upping etc...



Good points, about flexible materials having their uses. Slings too.

Another missile weapon (not really a new material, but we're talking about options) is the atlatl. It's a wooden "arm extender" that holds a javelin as you throw it, greatly increasing range and power.

(While I'm on leverage, if characters want to make a "grenade" of natural poisons or such, tests found that the German "potato-masher" design can be thrown more than twice as far as the US model, just from leverage. Build your grenades around a "stick"!)


----------



## mbartelsm (Jan 22, 2013)

I don't kno if it has been mentioned, but you could use a lot of fire-hardened wood, AFAIK it's better than bones


----------



## Cheezyb10 (Jan 23, 2013)

Well I'll give you two answers.

~If I had unlimited resources
 -Diamond everything as it is the hardest most durable material (swords, bows, spears everything)
 -Balloon + Vanilla extract + Fire = Explosion

~If I had limited resources
 -Spear with a stone tip
 -Sword with wood handle and stone blade, sharpened with a rock.


----------



## Being Darbo (Jan 23, 2013)

Hi,

Thinking practically, it's got to be wooden spears and staves for me. Both can be made easily and quickly, and require little skill to use at a basic level while giving a huge advantage in terms of reach. Good for your frontier militia or marooned travellers. You can even whittle down wood into stakes and use them are a defence against riders or large animals.

I like the idea of traps, too, if that counts. Pits, deadfall traps, trip wires; all handy to have at choke points.

Ranged weapons-wise, slings and blowpipes are cool, but  involve either skill to use or are fiddly to make. Depending on the situation, you're probably just as well off with some high ground, some cover and a pile of rocks to throw.

Anyway, that's what I'd go with, assuming no or little skill on the part of the fighters and the need to gear up efficiently and effectively.


----------



## mbartelsm (Jan 23, 2013)

Cheezyb10 said:


> Well I'll give you two answers.
> 
> ~If I had unlimited resources
> -Diamond everything as it is the hardest most durable material (swords, bows, spears everything)
> ...



Diamond would break relatively easy if it's the size of a sword (granted, it would be amazingly sharp and it's edge would not wear easily as long as you do not smash it against something too hard), and that is assuming you find a single crystal that big


----------



## The Tourist (Jan 23, 2013)

I'm a newer member here, but has anyone ever proffered the use of "frozen weapons"?  That is, ice formed into knives, axes or arrow heads, used to do damage and then melt to cover the identity of the assassin?


----------



## Nihal (Jan 29, 2013)

Just to stay out of the bladed weapons: Whips, rope darts and meteor hammers.
Those are good because they don't kill instantly and a fight would have a lot of movement.

You could also exaggerate a bit and combine two weapons in one. I've played an RPG with a slight pyromaniac character who used a bow and often explosive/incendiary arrows. I've even came up with different concepts of hollow arrows, some ignited on time, others on impact. That was fun!


----------

