# Anatomy of Fiction: Reading Group For Writers



## Heliotrope (Dec 12, 2016)

Welcome to _Anatomy of Fiction: Reading Group for Writers._ 

Your hosts for the group include Heliotrope, and Devor. 

January/February's topic of discussion will be "Writing Funny." 

*What is Comic Fantasy?*​
Probably the lightest of all fantasy sub-genres, Humorous or Comic Fantasy is fun first, fantasy second. Basically, it just presents a fresh and interesting environment that will generate fresh and interesting humor.

A hallmark of this type is the heavy use of puns and parodies of other works. This can take many forms: making fun of the genre itself is probably the easiest target, because most other fantasy takes itself so very seriously. Another technique is to add ridiculous elements to tropes, such as a magic sword that talks, but only when spoken to politely or some such thing. Giving protagonists an exaggerated flaw that introduces some difficulty in achieving or maintaining the expected hero's bearing can be quite funny, but many times the hero himself plays the “straight man” in these stories, while the other characters are made ridiculous. 

The action usually takes place in an imaginary world, although medieval settings are ripe for humor as well.

- See more at: Comic Fantasy | Best Fantasy Books

***​
Could your WIP stand to be a bit more funny? Does it perhaps take itself too seriously? Are you looking for ways to inject a bit of comic relief? 

Join our discussion next month on how to write funny! 

This theme's reading list includes: 

The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galexy by Douglas Adams 

The Princess Bride by Willian Goldman 

Good Omens by Neil Gaiman/ Terry Pratchett 

Choose one, choose two, or read them all and join in the conversation starting January 1st.

*(What is this group? https://mythicscribes.com/forums/su...fiction-reading-group-writers.html#post253647 )


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## Devor (Dec 12, 2016)

Looking forward to this!


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## Heliotrope (Dec 12, 2016)

Me too! I ordered my books on Amazon today!


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## Chessie (Dec 12, 2016)

So how is this going to work? I'm still in the 1st chapter of The Princess Bride at the moment. Just wondering if the discussion will be about all the books at once or...?


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## Devor (Dec 12, 2016)

Chessie said:


> So how is this going to work? I'm still in the 1st chapter of The Princess Bride at the moment. Just wondering if the discussion will be about all the books at once or...?



Good question, Chessie!  We're still figuring some of this out, and Heliotrope will be taking point on the discussion.  But at the moment we're hoping to focus on the theme, "Writing Funny," while inviting people to talk about any of the three books to support the discussion.  *If you only choose to read Princess Bride, that will be fine*, as we continue to figure out how to make a discussion of three different books work out for everyone.


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## Heliotrope (Dec 12, 2016)

Yeah. So starting in January I'll post some articles or perhaps even podcasts that address the theme of "writing funny," as well as some broad talking points on topics such as: 
- Comedic Irony
- Developing comedic characters through using only one or two-dimensional characters
- using the setting in comedic ways 
- using satire

You get the idea. 

We've limited the reading choices to three books that are different enough in scope that they offer a variety, while still under the umbrella of "comedy." 

The point is that if a person chooses to read only one book there will be others in the group who are reading the same book, and if someone chooses to read more than one then they can compare and contrast.


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## Chessie (Dec 12, 2016)

Oooohh....you know what? I think I totally misunderstood this book club. I thought we were reading just for the fun of it. I didn't realize that this was meant as a writing group, too with articles, etc. Not for me then.


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## Heliotrope (Dec 12, 2016)

All the extra stuff is optional. Not homework. The point is that those who wish to delve more into the "how to's" can, while those who just wish to talk books can do that. No pressure. No assignments.

The point though is to look at specific themes, read how master author's adress those themes (like comedy) and disuss how we can apply those strategies to our own material.


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## Devor (Dec 12, 2016)

Right, I think we definitely want to make it up to you how much or how little you want to get involved.  I can't speak too much for the discussion, but the article that goes live on the home page will be a "Reading Challenge" that'll be read by hundreds of people who won't have a chance to even join the discussion. And that's fine.

We're looking for ways to add value to our audience.  If all you want to do is pop in and say "Thanks for recommending this book, I really enjoyed it," hey, thanks, we'll take it.  But some people may be looking for specific ways they can add comedy or whatever the current theme is at the time to their writing, and we want to support that.

*Participate as little or as much as is right for you.*

As the series progresses over the year we hope to have presented a pretty solid survey of the fantasy genre for writers who are interested in figuring out what to read and how they're looking to grow as writers by reading it.


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## Mythopoet (Dec 12, 2016)

Ooh, I've read all these, so I'll definitely jump into the discussion.


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## skip.knox (Dec 12, 2016)

All three books approach humor in the same way--as a kind of knowing satire or commentary on the form itself. Nothing wrong with that at all. All three of those books were great fun.

But that's rather different from writing actual comedy, in which the characters are funny within their own reality. I can think of comedic relief from a character in an otherwise straightforward fantasy tale, but I'm hard-pressed to think of a fantasy book that is not really more of a meta-comedy. Even _Silverlock_ was that way. Can anyone think of an exception? 

I bring it up because the actual writing can be different--comedy versus satire--so it's something to be aware of as we look at the authorial devices used.


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## Heliotrope (Dec 12, 2016)

I can't think of one in fantasy, specifically, but The Martian may be an example of a strictly funny book, as in not satirical, just using the voice of a funny character? Is this more what you mean? 

Probably Galapagos by Kurt Vonnegut would be another example. 

Many of the Harry Potter books have humourous characters as well. 

The reasoning behind the book choices was that if group members were only able to fit in one of the books then they could choose one that fit their interests, but it would be similar enough in theme to the others that the discussion topics would relate. For the next theme, which we will put to a vote by the members, we can maybe talk about if we want to have more diversity in the books. 

This time around Devor and I thought it appropriate to choose one well known, classic fantasy (for those interested in such a thing) with A Princess Bride, a, non-fantasy though still well-known novel in Hitchhiker's Guide, and then something still fantasy but far less traditional with Good Omens.

*Edit: I find that Middle Grades has a wide variety of funny fantasy books that are not satirical, 

Return to Exile by E.J. Patton comes to mind. 

_Phineas T. Pimiscule was not what you'd call an "attractive" man. He wasn't "desirable" or "appealing". He didn't like "things" or do "stuff" or "wash" himself. He was not the kind of guy to "put" "quotation" "marks" around "words" or to say things in an unassuming or assuming way. 

He was the kind of guy who wore a monocle. _


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## Heliotrope (Dec 12, 2016)

PS - Skip, you already have interesting questions and discussion points.... (I had to look up Meta-comedy) and since you have already read all the books it would be great to have you join in the discussions! 

And if you feel like maybe you want to help us co-host on the next round that would be great too, Devor and I are just flying by the seat of our pants at this point


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## Devor (Dec 12, 2016)

Heliotrope said:


> And if you feel like maybe you want to help us co-host on the next round that would be great too, Devor and I are just flying by the seat of our pants at this point



I think we're off to a decent start myself, but I would also be more than happy to have Skip or somebody else join as a co-host.

If we can find the books for it, we could do "non-satirical comedy" as a theme down the road.


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## Devor (Dec 13, 2016)

Helio, when did you want to vote on the next theme?  I told Black Dragon the article about the three books we picked would go live the weekend of Jan 7th, and I think it would be great to be able to mention the next theme inside the article.  So to me the sooner we pick the next theme the better.

Ohh, also . . . bump!


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## Heliotrope (Dec 13, 2016)

Ok, anytime then? If anyone has a suggestion for the next theme they can pm me or post it here?


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## Devor (Dec 13, 2016)

I'll toss a theme out there . . . "Heavy Exposition Done Right."


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## Heliotrope (Dec 13, 2016)

If anyone has a book suggestion that matches a theme that would be great too!

For expo heavy done right I might suggest: 

One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez? 

Nobel prize winner
Expo heavy 
Magical realism


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## Heliotrope (Dec 13, 2016)

Or Slaughterhouse Five by Kurt Vonnegut? Hmmmmm... Could be an interesting theme...


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## Chessie (Dec 13, 2016)

Devor said:


> Right, I think we definitely want to make it up to you how much or how little you want to get involved.  I can't speak too much for the discussion, but the article that goes live on the home page will be a "Reading Challenge" that'll be read by hundreds of people who won't have a chance to even join the discussion. And that's fine.
> 
> We're looking for ways to add value to our audience.  If all you want to do is pop in and say "Thanks for recommending this book, I really enjoyed it," hey, thanks, we'll take it.  But some people may be looking for specific ways they can add comedy or whatever the current theme is at the time to their writing, and we want to support that.
> 
> ...



Honestly, it's kind of looking like a college Lit class to me.  I'm kind of bummed because I would love to be a part of a book club where we read for fun and there's discussion but all the themes and everything extra is dissuading me. Not sure if that's the case for anyone else who might come across this--I'm not so good with strong literature + writing= you should write like this!

So...in the meantime, I'll wait and see how it develops.


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## Nimue (Dec 13, 2016)

Chessie said:


> Honestly, it's kind of looking like a college Lit class to me.  I'm kind of bummed because I would love to be a part of a book club where we read for fun and there's discussion but all the themes and everything extra is dissuading me. Not sure if that's the case for anyone else who might come across this--I'm not so good with strong literature + writing= you should write like this!
> 
> So...in the meantime, I'll wait and see how it develops.


I kind of have to agree... When Helio posted the first list of suggestions I was interested, because my tastes are pretty narrow and I actually haven't read a lot of the big names in fantasy--Sanderson, Rothfuss, even a lot of Pratchett, I'm ashamed to say.  So I'd be up for the reading-for-fun aspect, and some discussion as far as inspiration for our own writing, gushing over parts we liked, etc.  What I'm not really into is the prospect of having to write really long posts of lit dissection...or even into reading that.  And anything Literary or hard sci-fi or way off-genre isn't what I would sign up for.

It'd be fun to have a conversation about these books, but if it sets out to be super academic or effort-heavy I feel like it'll be a difficult conversation to get involved in.  However, my goals might just not line up with this endeavor.  I'll see how things go for you guys.


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## skip.knox (Dec 13, 2016)

@Heliotrope, I wore out the seat of my pants long ago. How about using me as a backup, if one of the prime movers needs a break?

@Chessie, there are lots of reading groups for fun--check out Goodreads. I rather like the specific writerly focus of this thread. Not merely analyzing a book (=college Lit class), but analyzing it from an author's POV, that we may learn and improve.


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## Heliotrope (Dec 13, 2016)

hmmm, interesting perspective. 

Ok, I'll really try to reiterate again, this is absolutely NOT a collage lit course lol! I have not read any of the books on the list for this month (ashamed to admit) and I'm no expert on writing comedy. Neither is Devor, which is why we picked that as our first theme. 

There will be NO heavy literary analysis required. There will be no homework and participation is as much, or as little as you prefer. 

Basically, this was how the conversation went with Devor as we were planning: 

"Gee, it would be nice to have a reading group where we could read books and talk about them from a "writers" perspective, instead of from just a 'reader's' perspective." 

We both felt that writing comedy was something we struggled with and wanted to learn more about. So we decided to choose a few comedy books to discuss them from a writer perspective. 

If in a few weeks someone says "Hey, I would love to read some books that have examples of really great dialogue because I really struggle with dialogue." Then we would do some research into some books that fit that mold so we could read and discuss. 

No one is telling anyone how to write. No one is saying "you must write a certain way." 

Dover and I simply thought "Hmmmmm, we get told all the time to 'read, read, read'... wouldn't it be nice if a group of us read the same books so we could chat about how the author does certain things?" 

That is the purpose of this group. 

Please, feel free to simply read the conversation and not participate if that is what makes you more comfortable! 

No one is claiming to have any answers or "teach" anyone how to do anything. All we want to do is read books together and discuss how and why the author made certain choices so we have a bigger arsenal of tools when it comes to our own writing. 

Everyone will be asked to share any articles they have read on writing comedy, or any advice they have on how they do it so that we can all learn and grow together.


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## Devor (Dec 13, 2016)

Talking about articles and podcasts earlier might have gotten a little overboard.

I wanted to do a "theme" like comedy, and list three books for that theme, because I thought it would make a stronger article series.  "Your Reading Quest" for the next two months is to read a comedy book.  I thought over time if you read one book from each 3-book selection you'd have covered a pretty good survey of the genre, which is a good reading plan for people who want to be a fantasy writer.

I think that's a solid strategy for an article series, but it's kind of confusing the discussion group a little.

Just bear with us a little as we figure all of this out.  I think the big goal is to encourage everyone to read more, and we definitely don't want to kill anyone's fun.  If the books sound too off-genre, or the themes too weird, or the discussion too heavy, thank you for letting us know.  We can figure out how to tweak the plan to get it right.

But don't count us out yet.  We're listening and want to do this right.


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## Devor (Dec 13, 2016)

Okay guys, how about . . . .

We were planning to do this every two months because (in another thread) somebody suggested a month to read, a month to analyze.

So let's go with that.

The discussion goes live early January, and for the first month, while you read, you pop in at any time to basically react to the book, however you want.  "This part was really cool!  Who else is reading Good Omens and on chapter 9?"

Then comes February, we start with some light discussion questions, keep it friendly.

Around mid-February, we post some heavier "How to write comedy" discussion topics.  If you want to drop by this point, hey that's fine.  If you only want to jump in at this point, that's cool too.  If the discussion dies or carries on long after the next series has begun, hey that's fine too.

Would that seem about right for everyone?


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## Heliotrope (Dec 13, 2016)

I think that might be making things even more complicated. 

My original plan was "hey, who wants to read books and discuss them with me so we can see what great writers do and hopefully learn some stuff?" 

I'd like to keep it simple. 

I think I'd like to revisit my original plan of one book from the "big names" in fantasy that I haven't read every two months and keep discussion writerly but simple. 

Let's vote on one of the three books to read and discuss, casually, as a group.


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## Chessie (Dec 13, 2016)

I apologize. I didn't mean to cause a stir or complicate things. Upon further consideration, this isn't right for me and that's ok. I hope everyone has a lot of fun reading though.


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## skip.knox (Dec 13, 2016)

Devor's proposal sounds fine to me. I do okay with structure. Heliotrope's version is fine as well. I do okay without structure.

I definitely do want to look at specific techniques, and talk about what works or doesn't work. I'm also fine with out-of-genre books. The main thing, for me, is to get down to specific examples of humor, and to talk about how we might use that in our own writing. I do agree with the Founders (you're both Founders now) that the generic and general advice of read, read, read is somewhat less than helpful.


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## Thomas Laszlo (Dec 13, 2016)

Same! I'm gonna order books soon! I get paid Friday!


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## Heliotrope (Dec 13, 2016)

Thanks Chessie and Skip  

Ok, so, I think we should try to keep things as simple as possible for now. I really want to keep the discussion open round table and not put time limitations on when we can talk about certain stuff. If someone knows a great resource on writing comedy and they want to share it then I don't want them to have to wait to share. I'm really eager to just be able to talk to you all about the themes so that I can learn as much as possible. 

As for book choice, though, I know Devor wanted to do three so he could write about them in his article. I do think three might be a tad ambitious, though? I know I can't (won't) be reading three books. Maybe one, possibly two. I fear it will be hard to have meaningful discussion if we are not reading the same book, though? 

Thoughts on that? 

Finally, I walked away from this concept in May because it got slightly bigger than what I was willing to handle. I'm glad Devor is taking over the article team stuff because I really just wanted a group of people to read with and discuss books with from a writer's perspective. If we can keep it simple that would be best for me.


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## Devor (Dec 13, 2016)

I'm fine if you'd like to take a vote on which book to read for the reading group.  But I think I need three and a theme for the articles to work.

What about ​(fantasy) _heists_ for the second theme?


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## Trick (Dec 13, 2016)

I am more than interested in this. I probably won't do every month but I'll try. I've already read one of the three for January but I want to read the other two as well. (I hope no one minds if I bring the perspective of an audiobook listener to the discussion; I kind of think it will be even bigger in the future and writing for audio can have a big, and usually positive, effect on your writing. I'll still get hard copies though, so I can notate the parts I think worth discussing).


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## Nimue (Dec 13, 2016)

I think I'm a bit more on-board now, mainly with the "reading as writers" thing.  I do see characterization, exposition, world-building, description, dialogue, etc, as I read; it's not really something I can turn off. I'm good with talking about my perceptions of those things...less with analyzing them down to the bone, then rendering rules or advice on "how to write x" from that.  It sounds somewhat like most of that will be funneled into the articles?  Whichever way, that's the extent that I could see myself participating.

As far as voting on a book goes, I think I like the idea of the three different books, read as many as you like... Having someone else discuss a book I haven't read or perhaps don't want to read would at least teach me a little more about the effective parts of that book.  For this one, I haven't read Good Omens but I've heard all the buzz, so I would like to tackle that one.  I'll probably re-read Princess Bride as well, as I haven't read that one in my twenties yet and book-perceptions change over time. (Which I love.  I re-read things to death, squeezing a little more out every time...)  I've definitely read Hitchhiker's Guide before but I'd like to stay rooted in fantasy for the time being, so I'd give it a pass but it would be interesting to see people discussing the nature of its humor.

Regarding themes, I'm not particularly keen on heists, but seeing how I like my fantasy fairly free of thieves and assassins (Vlad Taltos gets a pass) I may not be the person to ask.  I'd love to read to a theme of really good magic systems, or fantastic descriptive prose, or myth/fairy-tale retellings, or, heh...romance.  Two cents for the wishing well.


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## Heliotrope (Dec 13, 2016)

All great suggestions Nimue, and since magic systems is a topic that comes up a lot on the forums I think delving deep into how the masters handle it would be a great idea!


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