# Do werewolves get hangovers?



## Svrtnsse (Jun 15, 2017)

Spontaneously, what's your first thought - yes or no? 

Don't answer "it depends" or something like that. I'm first of all interested in whether you'd answer the question in the topic with a yes or a no given the information included in the topic.

Okay, now for the "it depends" part, and where I'm interested in a more thought out respose.

Obviously it's up to me as a writer to decide whether werewolves in my setting get hangovers or not, but I figured it might make for an interesting/amusing topic.
In many settings werewolves are immune to diseases or poisons. They have strong healing powers and can heal serious wounds in much shorter time than a normal human. 
Now, alcohol is clearly a poison, but is a hangover a disease, or an effect of the poison, or something else. As I understand, one of the causes for hangover is dehydration. How would a werewolf deal with that?

I'm pretty sure the werewolf in my story will be getting a hangover (because all my characters eventually do, and usually sooner rather than later), but I'd like to run it by the hivemind to see what you have to say here.


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## Queshire (Jun 15, 2017)

First thought, no to mundane stuff, yes to magical stuff.


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## Ireth (Jun 15, 2017)

I think that yes, a werewolf would get a hangover just like a human would. And I'm pretty sure a hangover is just an after-effect of the poison that is alcohol. As for how they'd deal with it... water. Pretty tried-and-true, IMO.


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## Devor (Jun 15, 2017)

My first thought:  How else would you cope with being a werewolf?


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## FifthView (Jun 15, 2017)

My first thought was Yes.

My second thought was, well at least 29 days of every month, give or take.

My third thought was that I'm not really up on all the current werewolf lore.


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## Heliotrope (Jun 15, 2017)

Hmmmmmmmm, interesting. 

Ok. My thoughts. 

Werewolves are sort of known for their healing capabilities. They have to be able to heal fast in order to switch from man to beast monthly (insert bad PMS joke here). 

Not too much is known about what causes a hangover, but dehydration is one cause. 

I imagine a werewolf would probably be able to overcome any of the metabolic, or poisonous effects of alcohol, but simple dehydration is dehydration. Not much you can do about that besides drinking a ton of water. 

So I imagine that werewolves would not have hangovers as bad as a human... their body can just metabolize more alcohol than any human... but... if they did drink enough they would not be able to counter the extreme dehydration....  so they would probably wake up with a bad headache, dry mouth, dizziness, fatigue, and nausea associated with severe dehydration.


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## Svrtnsse (Jun 16, 2017)

Cheers folks. This kind of aligns with my train of thought as well.


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## ThinkerX (Jun 16, 2017)

Oh yes.

Now, imagine a completely wasted, falling down drunk undergoing the change to wolf form.  Probably just curl up and sleep rather than run amok.


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## CupofJoe (Jun 16, 2017)

ThinkerX said:


> Oh yes.
> 
> Now, imagine a completely wasted, falling down drunk undergoing the change to wolf form.  Probably just curl up and sleep rather than run amok.


And in their sleep, they will do that adorable "I'm chasing something" [humans, sheep, whatever] twitch.


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## Michael K. Eidson (Jun 16, 2017)

None of the werewolves I know get hangovers, because they don't drink alcohol. _Could_ they get hangovers? The next time I see one maybe I can ply him with beer and find out.


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## Aurora (Jun 16, 2017)

Michael K. Eidson said:


> None of the werewolves I know get hangovers, because they don't drink alcohol. _Could_ they get hangovers? The next time I see one maybe I can ply him with beer and find out.


What if they got a hangover from eating someone who was drunk? A drunk person would be good prey, no?


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Jun 16, 2017)

Svrtnsse said:


> Spontaneously, what's your first thought - yes or no?
> 
> Don't answer "it depends" or something like that. I'm first of all interested in whether you'd answer the question in the topic with a yes or a no given the information included in the topic.
> 
> ...



First thought is yes, why not? Next thought is while transformed or no? (Why would a werewolf in wolf form be drinking, though? Unless he ate a drunk person?) Third thought is of how dogs are negatively affected by alcohol more than humans. But...depends on what you want for the story, really.


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## Svrtnsse (Jun 16, 2017)

Thanks again guys. It's good to get some different perspectives even though you all seem to agree on the main point. I'm also getting some idea for "amusing anecdotes" or character development here.


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## Heliotrope (Jun 16, 2017)

Re: the science behind eating a drunk person... the answer would be no, a werewolf could not get drunk from eating a drunk person. I'll explain why. 

This was explained to me when I was nursing my first baby. I was worried I could not have a drink while breastfeeding. It turns out that even if I was over the legal limit of intoxication (which is 0.08%  blood alcohol content in Canada) the baby would hardly feel anything. The reason is because my breastmilk carries the same level of alcohol as my blood. If my blood alcohol level is 0.08% (falling down drunk) than baby is drinking breastmilk that only has a 0.08 % alcohol level. 

Most beers have a alcohol level of 4.0-6.0%. 

Hard drinks like whiskey have an alcohol content of 40-68%. 

So basically my baby would be having a few sips of the equivalent of a non-alcoholic beer, or a very ripe peice of fruit. Pretty much nothing would enter his blood stream. 

Based on this logic, if a werewolf ate a falling down drunk guy, the blood alcohol level would only be around 0.08%. Not enough to get him even remotely drunk.


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## Aurora (Jun 16, 2017)

But it's fantasy fiction. It doesn't have to be realistic. Svrtnsse can do whatever he wants to fit his story.


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## Svrtnsse (Jun 16, 2017)

This is an interesting aspect though. My werewolves won't be eating any people in the story (or out of the story either if I have anything to say about it (and I do)), but...

Logically, you wouldn't get drunk from eating someone even if they're completely langers. It's fantasy though and we can apply different rules as we want. Let's say for the sake of the argument that when a werewolf eats someone they also consume part of the person soul/essence/core/mind and that's where the real sustenance comes from (or was that vampires). If the person is under the influence then their mind gets warped, and this in turn effects the mind of the werewolf who consumes it.

In this way, it could be made to make sense for the werewolf to get drunk from eating someone.


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## DragonOfTheAerie (Jun 16, 2017)

Heliotrope said:


> Re: the science behind eating a drunk person... the answer would be no, a werewolf could not get drunk from eating a drunk person. I'll explain why.
> 
> This was explained to me when I was nursing my first baby. I was worried I could not have a drink while breastfeeding. It turns out that even if I was over the legal limit of intoxication (which is 0.08%  blood alcohol content in Canada) the baby would hardly feel anything. The reason is because my breastmilk carries the same level of alcohol as my blood. If my blood alcohol level is 0.08% (falling down drunk) than baby is drinking breastmilk that only has a 0.08 % alcohol level.
> 
> ...



Ahhh, that's disappointing.


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## Ban (Jun 17, 2017)

Heliotrope said:


> Re: the science behind eating a drunk person... the answer would be no, a werewolf could not get drunk from eating a drunk person. I'll explain why.
> 
> This was explained to me when I was nursing my first baby. I was worried I could not have a drink while breastfeeding. It turns out that even if I was over the legal limit of intoxication (which is 0.08%  blood alcohol content in Canada) the baby would hardly feel anything. The reason is because my breastmilk carries the same level of alcohol as my blood. If my blood alcohol level is 0.08% (falling down drunk) than baby is drinking breastmilk that only has a 0.08 % alcohol level.
> 
> ...



Interesting.

But we should also consider that werewolves would likely be comparable to dogs and wolves in their tolerance of alcohol. Dogs are notoriously weak drinkers, who are not made to handle alcohol. For example, my dog accidentally drank half a beer once and he was acting strange and clumsy for hours. If a medium to large sized dog gets drunk off of half a can than perhaps if a werewolf ate more than one drunk human he might be hammered already.


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## valiant12 (Jun 17, 2017)

Yes
I remember reading a story in which a werewolf get a hangover and it was a very fun scene.



> Now, alcohol is clearly a poison, but is a hangover a disease, or an effect of the poison, or something else. As I understand, one of the causes for hangover is dehydration. How would a werewolf deal with that?



Wolves aren't immune to poison, Why would werewolves be immune to poisons ?


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## Svrtnsse (Jun 17, 2017)

valiant12 said:


> Wolves aren't immune to poison, Why would werewolves be immune to poisons ?



Because I say so. 

On a more serious note, I'd say it's due to their supernatural healing powers. This also allows them to tolerate or handle harmful substances to a much higher degree than wolves or humans. Then again, would this higher tolerance/immunity mean the werewolf doesn't get drunk in the first place, or just that they have to drink exceptionally much.

Also, as far as eating people goes - people are kinda big, and it's a lot to eat.


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## psychotick (Jun 17, 2017)

Hi,

For me it's a yes and a no - sorry, I know you didn't want that as an answer, but there's a reason. My shape shifters basically heal when they shift form. So if they get shot they just shift a few times, which makes them very hardy souls. But the point is that they can still be shot. And it's the same with poisons like alcohol. Yes they can get drunkand yes they can get a hangover. But simply by shifting form, both are gone. So why would they keep a hangover - unless of course they want to suffer.

Cheers, Greg.


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## FifthView (Jun 17, 2017)

I still have mental impressions of werewolves based on the old type. If there's a full moon, and that's the only time they shift, then the rest of the time they are basically humans with human bodies and don't have the strong healing factor and resistance to poisons, etc., that they'd have in their werewolf form. I suppose they might be slightly better at healing, at least during the transformation and maybe more a little after.

When I read about the quick-healing type, the resistant-to-poisons type, I think Wolverine. And he's not a werewolf, hah.

I have watched the Twilight movies (don't remember much however), Teen Wolf, the Underworld series of movies, and other modern interpretations, but even in those I seem to recall various weaknesses borrowed from the older type, like silver and wolfsbane. These _are_ effective poisons, even affecting the transitioned werewolf. So...

I'm going to use some man-on-the-street science—someone could pop in and correct my thinking, hah—but the process of ridding the body of poisons like alcohol involves production of more urine. Poisons _can_ be broken down by the body, but then the body needs to release the resulting compounds through urination plus some of the original toxins that aren't broken down need to be released. This increased urination is basically what leads to dehydration, I think. (My pop-sci approach leads me to believe that sweating off toxins could further lead to dehydration.) So if hangovers are largely a result of dehydration and/or are made worse because of dehydration, then even a werewolf's ability to break down toxins would still lead to dehydration and a hangover. Maybe the werewolf body's very process of breaking down toxins quickly could exacerbate this. But then you're going to have werewolves needing to urinate a lot, hah.

Edit: Incidentally, I could even see a case of werewolves not being able to get drunk easily but getting hangovers easily. I.e., body breaks down the alcohol so fast he can't get drunk, but that quick process leads to dehydration and a hangover, heh.


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## Svrtnsse (Jun 17, 2017)

The supernatural healing of werewolves is a pretty strict requirement for this story and setting. 
Werewolf fighting is a popular spectator "sport" and Roy, one of my main characters, is a fading star within that scene. The superior healing of the werewolves mean the fights are bloodier and more violent than fights between regular mortals. It's possible for the fighters to go all out against each other as they'll heal any injuries apart from actual death within a few days/weeks/months.


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## FifthView (Jun 17, 2017)

Ah, and I've done some more reading, and I think that the body's process of metabolizing alcohol doesn't relate to the increased urination in the way I thought. It's not trying to get rid of the toxins, so much (although there might be some byproducts and a tiny effect) but rather in how alcohol affects the brain and messes up the brain's ability to regulate the production of urine:

Fourth, alcohol interferes with the mechanism that regulates the water levels in our body.

So now, a little anatomy and physiology. In your brain is a small gland called the pituitary gland. It is divided into two sections: the front; and the back.

The back section is called the posterior pituitary. One of the hormones made by the posterior pituitary gland is called vasopressin, or anti-diuretic hormone (ADH). Diuresis is a fancy word meaning urination.

Now suppose that you are really dehydrated. So the volume of water in your body is low. But you still have just as many salts floating in this reduced volume of water.

So these salts are now more concentrated in the reduced volume of water that you have when you are dehydrated.

Your body has detectors that can sense both the saltiness of your water, and the volume of the water. If these detectors reckon that you are dehydrated, they send a signal to the posterior pituitary gland, which starts pumping out ADH. The job of ADH is to stop you urinating, so you hang on to your precious water. You reduce your normal rate of making urine.

Alcohol does the opposite. It reduces how much ADH you make, so it increases how much urine you produce. Each shot of alcohol that you drink forces your kidneys to generate an extra 120 millilitres of urine on top of the normal 60—80 millilitres per hour. [Why does drinking alcohol cause dehydration?]​
So...not sure how this would play into how your werewolves' bodies work. I've been searching for more info, but haven't yet found a clear explanation of how alcohol affects ADH.


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## FifthView (Jun 17, 2017)

BUT, of course, you don't need to have an explanation, hah. It really depends on what you want to do with it. Seems most who have responded in this thread have started with "Yes," so I'd think that's a good indication that you could get away with it rather easy.

I do think there's an odd double-edged sword here, something I've considered lots of times before when considering the "realism" factor or plausibility factor. 

Sometimes, the more you explain or reinforce some aspect of an in-world reality, then the more it comes under inspection, hah. So if you are reinforcing how these werewolves are immune to toxins, heal super fast from lots of things, then some readers might stumble into a scene involving hangovers and hit a kind of reality-breaking wall. Conversely, sometimes a bit of handwavium or general approach can leave open the plausibility of other things relating to that reality.


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## TheCrystallineEntity (Jun 17, 2017)

^It's akin to trying to explain why dragons breathe fire, or how many stomachs a centaur has.


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## FifthView (Jun 17, 2017)

Oh, I think it's not a problem of trying to find "realism" in some fantasy creation. I mean, yeah, these creatures do not exist, so there is no real _real_, hah.

It's more like: Once you've started outlining them for your world, then you have to keep coloring within the lines. The more specific you get about your fictional reality, the more detail you give, then the greater the likelihood some splash of color might fall outside that outline. Something like that.


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## psychotick (Jun 17, 2017)

Hi,

But of course centaurs have one stomach and dragons breathe fire because of an appalling shortage of antacid!!!

Cheers, Greg.


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## Svrtnsse (Jun 18, 2017)

FifthView said:


> BUT, of course, you don't need to have an explanation, hah. It really depends on what you want to do with it. Seems most who have responded in this thread have started with "Yes," so I'd think that's a good indication that you could get away with it rather easy.
> 
> I do think there's an odd double-edged sword here, something I've considered lots of times before when considering the "realism" factor or plausibility factor.
> 
> Sometimes, the more you explain or reinforce some aspect of an in-world reality, then the more it comes under inspection, hah. So if you are reinforcing how these werewolves are immune to toxins, heal super fast from lots of things, then some readers might stumble into a scene involving hangovers and hit a kind of reality-breaking wall. Conversely, sometimes a bit of handwavium or general approach can leave open the plausibility of other things relating to that reality.



You've got a lot of points here. 

The whole realism-in-fantasy discussion is interesting in its own right and probably worthy of its own thread (again?), but I'll try and touch upon it anyway.

The reason I wanted to specifically ask what the first spontaneous though is, is that it's what comes closest to your intuitive understanding of the situation. If something intuitively makes sense it doesn't really need explaining - especially if it's the same for a lot of people.
Things you recognise from the real world (including from other stories you're familiar with) don't need much explanation. 

A hangover is relatively recognisable in a character, and it's easy to accept it without really thinking too much about it.
If instead my werewolves had had another reaction as an after effect to hangovers I'd have a more difficult time selling that to the reader. What if their bodies processed the excess of alcohol through a process that caused the werewolf to grow a thick layer of fur all over their face?

It could probably be made to work, and make for great comedy value, but it would require more explanation, and it might not feel as intuitive.


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## FifthView (Jun 18, 2017)

Svrtnsse said:


> A hangover is relatively recognisable in a character, and it's easy to accept it without really thinking too much about it.
> If instead my werewolves had had another reaction as an after effect to hangovers I'd have a more difficult time selling that to the reader. What if their bodies processed the excess of alcohol through a process that caused the werewolf to grow a thick layer of fur all over their face?
> 
> It could probably be made to work, and make for great comedy value, but it would require more explanation, and it might not feel as intuitive.



Ha, I like that. I'm not even sure the extra hair growth would need lots of explanation. Why does it happen? 'Cause, werewolves; their bodies react differently to alcohol...and other things!

As you can see from other comments...probably most people don't actually know how hangovers happen, hah, or at least don't know the details. I did multiple searches until I found something of an explanation of how dehydration can happen when you drink a lot, and I think that was the first time in my life that I bothered trying to find out. So this is also a case of readers bringing their own schema to the subject. I'd imagine that schema is pretty basic: you drink a lot, you get a hangover. It's probably like, you eat the wrong foods, you get heartburn. Can I imagine a werewolf eating something bad and getting heartburn? Hah, yes. Healing factor just doesn't seem to be an issue when thinking digestion and aftereffects.

The only way to go wrong would be to maybe have a big scene where resistance to toxins is a focus. One of the werewolves' trainers makes a bet with a foreigner, who knows little about werewolves, or else the trainer/king/whatever just wants to display this for the foreigner. So there's a tiny cup of liquid, someone takes a long metal rod and dips it into the container then touches that end to the nose of a caged bear, and the bear immediately writhes in pain and dies within a few minutes. Then, one of the werewolf competitors picks up the cup and downs the whole thing, with no effect.  If two chapters later a werewolf wakes up feeling horrible from a hangover after a night of heavy drinking, you _might_ have a problem. So I guess this would be a case of just letting the reader bring the basic schema to the story and not shooting your story in the foot, hah.


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## Gryphos (Jun 19, 2017)

If werwolves are immune to poison, then my immediate assumption would be that they're immune to the effects of alcohol in general. I.e. they can't even get drunk.


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## SMAndy85 (Jun 20, 2017)

My short, instant answer, Yes.

longer answer. I am a huge fan of werewolves. I've read several things about the old mythological aspects of werewolves, and the potential magical effects going on that might create an actual werewolf. In reading about this, I would always write my werewolves as healing due to increased metabolism. Therefore, they would metabolise the alcohol faster, but only when in wolf form. So, as a human, they would get hammered like any other. Then, they change. Increased metabolism of being a werewolf means they are swiftly over the drunkenness, but then the hangover kicks in from the dehydration and other effects. The animal instinct would then be to go drink a lot, and then they'd be over it. Unless, they can't get to a water source for a drink for whatever reason.

I would imagine the increase in metabolism would mean that they would need food/drink in greater quantities while in wolf form anyway, so they may wake up in the morning following a wolf session with a headache if they didn't get enough water during the night anyway, so that would exacerbate the hangover from alcohol.

My thought is that the werewolf curse (Sanies lupinus, Lycanthropy, whatever you want to call it) is in itself a form of magical disease, making you immune to non-magical diseases, but there's nothing logical about them being immune to poison. Resistant, perhaps, but not immune. Faster metabolism would mean anything meant to knock them out wouldn't last as long, and they'd need more of it to have an effect, but it would still happen.

My other thought is that the transformation to wolf form is strenuous, which is what causes them to wake up in the middle of nowhere after a transformation. Normally in an uncomfortable position, or in a noisy wilderness situation that would wake any normal person up, or stop them from being able to sleep in the first place. That energy cost is the reason they go off hunting so much, and don't just curl up in front of a fire for the night. 

I'm also going to expand my answer to general therianthropy. I would suggest that a werebear would have sufficient mass to not be as drunk, and a were(cat) would be more likely to curl up and sleep it off. All you ever read about werewolves is that they are vicious killing machines, which is against the normal behaviour of real-life wolves.


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## Thee_Malak (Apr 2, 2019)

Well if you want to get technical. 
Werewolves have a high immune system, and as we all know the only thing that they are not immune to is wolfsbane or if you like to add mistletoe.
In order for you to get drunk the alcohol has to pass through your bloodstream and interfere with the neurotransmitters. Since werewolves are quick healers it makes it difficult for the alcohol to do so, making the shapeshifter (werewolf) immune to getting drunk. No matter how much they try they cannot get drunk. It's not logical for them to considering their powers. 

And for a werewolf that is in it's 20s, it's a bummer for them.


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## Mel Syreth (Apr 3, 2019)

Oh, you meant that kind of hangover! I thought you were referring to after they transform back to human form in the morning.

But my answer is still 'Yes, of course.'


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## Svrtnsse (Apr 3, 2019)

Mel Syreth said:


> I thought you were referring to after they transform back to human form in the morning


I asked about the in this thread, here. 
Werewolves and the full moon, and then...?


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## Ewolf20 (Apr 25, 2019)

technically speaking, my werewolves (or faerah in general) can get drunk but it depends on the species in question. but for the sake of this thread, let's just talk about werewolves. if a werewolf ever got drunk, there's a likely chance they might shift by accident and cause a commotion, especially in public human areas. naturally, this is one of the few times a werewolf forgot what they did after the change. rest is when they first shift or lose control of their beastial forms.


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