# Musical Instruments



## caters (Jan 3, 2017)

My Kepler Bb people have only really 2 types of music. 1 is voice(in other words singing and humming). The other is the sounds of nature.

I figured that at some point they might build musical instruments. But is that truly possible with just stone age technology? I mean, I suppose a wood flute could be made out of a wood that isn't very weather sensitive and have a similar mechanism to this:








A concert flute. I myself have a concert flute. But mine is Mendini brand and purple and most likely made of steel instead of the silver that is used to get the very mellow sound in a high quality flute. 

In fact I suppose any woodwind instrument could be made out of wood with just stone age technology. 

And making drums would be pretty easy with just wood, animal hide, and string.

And of course string instruments would be easy to make.

But what about all those other instruments, the brass instruments like trumpets, and other percussion instruments like for example the piano?

Could those be made with just wood, rocks, and if needed, string? In other words could stone age people actually make all kinds of musical instruments without having to do any smelting whatsoever or in the case of the piano, without having to find ivory or ebony(what was used long ago for the white and black keys respectively)?


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## CupofJoe (Jan 4, 2017)

You probably could make just about any instrument out of wood. But why would [no pun intended] you want to?
They would be inferior versions of instruments designed for metal and metal components.
New instruments that play to the strengths of the materials available would be created.  Plain flutes [Recorders], Pan Flutes, Bagpipes, Lutes, Lyres, maybe even a Hurdy-Gurdy and lots of instruments from around the world that I just don't know.


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## Ixidor (Jan 4, 2017)

caters said:


> I figured that at some point they might build musical instruments. But is that truly possible with just stone age technology?



You've got some basic stuff like Gemshorn or an Ocarina. Pretty much as long as you have bone, stone, or wood you could make an instrument.


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## Butterfly (Jan 4, 2017)

Well the flute is about the oldest instrument there is. (I'm a flutey too). The modern concert flute's mechanism was developed by Theobold Boehm in the late 1700, or early 1800s (?) to improve on what was there before. Basically, he put the holes in the right places, and added extra keys to improve the tuning of old wooden flutes. The ones that came before had no set method of drawing the holes and the notes were out of tune due to the placement of the holes. I believe there was a lot of acoustic and maths involved.

Basically, it's unlikely you would have the mechanism of a modern flute in the stone age.

However, the oldest flutes found were made out of animal bones.

Harps are also very old instruments, as are lutes.

They could probably make a xylophone from wood.

Before the piano, there was the harpsichord, which is medieval.


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## Tandrel (Jan 4, 2017)

Wonderful! stone age instruments!

Here are some instruments that could definetly be constructed:

Drums! Lots of them, made by empty fruit shells, or carved out wood with animal skin on them.
Maracas! Just use a hollow fruit / coconut shell and fill it with sand and stones :=)
Ancient type of guitars (lutes) like the sitars, using twinned plant fibers as strings
Horns! for blowing
Didgeridoos  (made out of wood that's been eaten from the inside out by termites)

These are some of the many instruments I'll make variations of in my own medieval world Arkonia


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## caters (Jan 5, 2017)

Well I am just asking because at some point they might want to play something like this:

[video=youtube_share;7jh-E5m01wY]https://youtu.be/7jh-E5m01wY[/video]

An orchestral piece. This in particular is Symphony no. 5 by Beethoven but any orchestral piece has at minimum the string section(violins, violas, cellos, and double basses(by the way, I find the sizing system weird for string instruments, For flutes it is super simple, just compare it to the concert flute and boom, there it is(piccolo, 1/2x, alto, 1.5x, bass, 2x). In fact for most instruments the sizing system is simple like it is for woodwinds(either size compared to most often used member like the flutes or clarinets, or simply the actual size of it). But string instruments, no way, they complicate it so that a 1/2 size violin is actually 87.2% of a full size violin. Why such a complicated system for determining the size of string instrument?))

Now a 1 inch increase in length(going from 1/4 size violin to 1/2 size and from 1/2 size to 3/4 size and from 3/4 size to full size(or as they call it, 4/4 size) all involve a 1 inch increase in the length of the violin) is simple but just look at this:







That 1/2 size doesn't even look to be half the size of the 4/4 size. So why call it 1/2 size when it isn't even close to half the size?

My Kepler Bb people would never use that complicated of a sizing system. To them 1/2 size is actually half the size. 

So to them a 1/2 size violin would literally be related to a 4/4 size violin the same way a piccolo is related to a concert flute(half the size). So if a 4/4 size violin is 14 inches than their 1/2 size violin would be a 7 inch violin(that just takes the body of the violin into consideration but it illustrates my point). 

On the other hand they might want to go solo and play things like piano sonatas.


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## CupofJoe (Jan 5, 2017)

Music and the instruments develop in the location of the people that want to play.
If you want your characters to play Beethoven's Fifth symphony in an orchestral arrangement, then you are going to have to have orchestral instruments of similar sound and function to the one Beethoven wrote for... or a really good digital synthesiser.
But why would they try to copy 200 year old European musical styles?  [Don't get me wrong it is a great piece of music, even if I prefer Shostakovich's Eleventh Symphony (1905)]
How would they have heard them?
Who would have taught them to play?


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## SumnerH (Jan 14, 2017)

Butterfly said:


> They could probably make a xylophone from wood.



Definitely.  Xylophones are made of wood by definition, in fact; "xylon" is Greek for "wood".  The little kid's version with metal bars like you use in elementary school music class is properly a type of glockenspiel, not a xylophone.



> Before the piano, there was the harpsichord, which is medieval.



The harpsichord barely dates to the medieval period--it really comes into use during the Renaissance and Baroque periods.  

Both the organ and psaltery were in common use in the medieval period, though, if you're looking for a keyboard or a harpsichord-ish sound respectively--they both date back to ancient Greece



Tandrel said:


> Ancient type of guitars (lutes) like the sitars, using twinned plant fibers as strings



Catgut was the material of choice for lute strings (and for the lyre before them, back to the pre-Greek era).  Classical guitars used it well into the 20th century, though after WW2 it was mostly (but not entirely) replaced by nylon.  Note that catgut is made from sheep or goat intestine (or less commonly, cow/horse/mule/etc), not from cats.

Turtle shells were commonly used for the body of the lyre.



A lot of the above are well past the Stone Age as far as we've discovered in Earth history--drums, flutes, percussion instruments, and animal horns are certainly found in the Stone Age, and by the early Bronze Age there are more advanced metal horns, pan-flute style collectives, and the like.  But there's no reason in principle that a lyre or xylophone couldn't be made by a stone age culture.


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## TheCrystallineEntity (Jan 14, 2017)

Four mysterious musical instruments often show up in my books, played by various characters: a flute, a harp, a lyre, and...a cello. I'm thinking of changing the cello to a koto or something, or maybe panpipes.


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## elemtilas (Feb 10, 2017)

caters said:


> My Kepler Bb people have only really 2 types of music. 1 is voice(in other words singing and humming). The other is the sounds of nature.
> 
> I figured that at some point they might build musical instruments. But is that truly possible with just stone age technology? I mean, I suppose a wood flute could be made out of a wood that isn't very weather sensitive and have a similar mechanism to this (Boehm system open holed flute):



As others have mentioned, all the little rods and springs that go into a keyed flute will not be available to people with simple stone age technology. But also as mentioned, bone and horn flutes, clay flutes and bamboo flutes all are quite possible to make with very low technology. Didgeridus and reed pipes and drums and lithophones are also quite easy to fashion at that level of technology. Bamboo zithers are also a possibility.

Instruments are really no problem. The interesting question becomes: what kind of music are they going to play? It sounds like their music will be very nature-imitative. 



> I myself have a concert flute. But mine is Mendini brand and purple and most likely made of steel instead of the silver that is used to get the very mellow sound in a high quality flute.



I just got a flute the other day, a simple renaissance style flute (by Vickers). A stick of wood with a bore down the middle, a plug at one end, a hole to blow in and six vents. Easy-peasy for a clever stone ager!



> But what about all those other instruments, the brass instruments like trumpets, and other percussion instruments like for example the piano?



"Brass" instruments don't have to made of metal. In musicological terms, "brass instrument" refers to how sound is produced (by buzzing the lips into a tube). You can easily make a brass instrument out of wood --- the old _cornetts_ are basically a tube of wood with six or seven vent holes and and you buzz into the other end to make music. Damn hard to play well, but not outside the realm of paleo-technology.

A piano, as it is now known, of course is not possible given the level of technology you're working with. You really need precision tools, metallurgy and highly skilled woodcraft. Even for a very simple fortepiano. The earliest "modern" keyboard instruments only date back to the 1200s or 1300s or so. Way after the stone age!



> Could those be made with just wood, rocks, and if needed, string? In other words could stone age people actually make all kinds of musical instruments without having to do any smelting whatsoever or in the case of the piano, without having to find ivory or ebony(what was used long ago for the white and black keys respectively)?



Ivory and ebony are actually pretty irrelevant to the construction of a piano. That's just a matter of traditional decoration. Most early keyboards were just made from stained wood. A piano is a lot of cast iron and steel. Even an all or mostly wood keyboard instrument like a spinet or harpsichord will be well beyond the capacity of a stone age instrument maker to fashion.


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## elemtilas (Feb 10, 2017)

caters said:


> This in particular is Symphony no. 5 by Beethoven but any orchestral piece has at minimum the string section.



Keep in mind that the early Romantic era orchestra that Beethoven was writing for didn't exist a hundred years before. It was an evolution from earlier Classical and Baroque orchestras which in turn evolved out of the even older Renaissance consorts.

There is no reason why an orchestra must have a string section. As an example, in one orchestral tradition in my own world, the orchestra is founded upon the flute consort. To this are appended various other divisions as a piece of music requires: a string section (lutes), a division of lithophones and a division of percussive instruments (kettle drums, small gongs, wooden blocks, trumpet-like instruments and so forth).

The people in your world will undoubtedly devise their own kind of orchestra and their own rules governing orchestration of music.



> (violins, violas, cellos, and double basses(by the way, I find the sizing system weird for string instruments, For flutes it is super simple, just compare it to the concert flute and boom, there it is(piccolo, 1/2x, alto, 1.5x, bass, 2x).



Sure, but you've also got flutes in C, Bb, Eb, F, D and piccolos in Db (of all keys!).

The odd thing about violin sizes, as I recall, is that the viola is built far smaller than it ought to be. This is to facilitate playing it off the shoulder.



> In fact for most instruments the sizing system is simple like it is for woodwinds(either size compared to most often used member like the flutes or clarinets, or simply the actual size of it). But string instruments, no way, they complicate it so that a 1/2 size violin is actually 87.2% of a full size violin. Why such a complicated system for determining the size of string instrument?))



Ha! Well, wind instruments are really no better. Take your trumpet family. They've got piccolo trumpets in Bb, high trumpets in G, F, Eb and D, trumpets in C, Bb, alto trumpets in F and Eb, bass trumpet in Bb. Valved bugles are I think in G. Clarinets come basically in Bb and Eb, but there are also clarinets in C, A, D and G.

Saxophones, until relatively recently, came in two whole families: one in Eb & Bb and another family in F & C.



> So to them a 1/2 size violin would literally be related to a 4/4 size violin the same way a piccolo is related to a concert flute(half the size). So if a 4/4 size violin is 14 inches than their 1/2 size violin would be a 7 inch violin(that just takes the body of the violin into consideration but it illustrates my point).




Part of this is physics, too. You can tune the strings of a violin up or down by quite a wide range without changing the basic size or shape of the instrument. You can place heavier strings on it to get deeper tones (a five string fiddle, for example, has a thicker C string in the bass). You can place smaller, thinner strings, or crank the tuning pegs as tight as they'll go and get much higher pitches.

Can't do that with a flute. Changing the body shape and length of a flute will automatically change its fundamental pitch and its tuning.



> On the other hand they might want to go solo and play things like piano sonatas.



Maybe stick with flute solos until they get cast iron and steel figured out!


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## Russ (Feb 10, 2017)

I think I now have a "go to" person for my music questions.


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## CupofJoe (Feb 10, 2017)

Just what I was thinking...


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## S.T. Ockenner (Feb 19, 2021)

What if there was a fantasy world that had all of the real-life genres of music, coincidentally? Go feasting in the dwarf halls, and you hear Viking Metal. An old tavern has a Swing band. The emperor's minstrel plays Jazz Fusion on an electric keyboard or synthesizer (powered by lightning magic), backed up by some horns, drums, electric bass, and electric guitar? What if  in the depths of the underworld, they listen to Blackened Death-Doom?


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