# The Biggest Cliche



## Sir Tristram (Mar 6, 2012)

I was talking with some friends over the weekend and discussing cliches, which made me wonder...
What is the biggest/most overused cliche in fantasy literature???


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## Devor (Mar 6, 2012)

A farmer, hunter or gardener saves the world.


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## Telcontar (Mar 6, 2012)

Either "The Chosen One" (only one person has the ability to save the world) or the rags-to-riches story, which is closely linked.


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## Gav (Mar 6, 2012)

Devor said:


> A farmer, hunter or gardener saves the world.



I see your hunter, gardener and farmer, and raise you...

A Thief/Assassin


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## Devor (Mar 6, 2012)

Telcontar is right, I'm changing my answer to "Chosen One."

Rags-to-Riches, or simply an Assassin, or getting the task of saving the world (90% of the population is farmer/gardener/hunter) isn't really a _cliche_ the way the words "Chosen One" are.  "A story with dragons" isn't cliche the way "a dragon that bonds telepathically with a rider" is.


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## grahamguitarman (Mar 6, 2012)

Lol, definitely the Chosen One


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## Lord Darkstorm (Mar 7, 2012)

The world will end if the main character does not do...A through Z to save the world.


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## Xanados (Mar 7, 2012)

I'd definitely say the "Chosen One" archetype, or the "peasant farmer saves a kingdom after he finds a magic sword"


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## Queshire (Mar 7, 2012)

Hmm... While the chosen one is certainly a big one, it's limited by the fact that it's still actually used, I mean just look at "Harry Potter" I see your chosen one and raise you a "It was a dark and stormy night..."


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## Philip Overby (Mar 7, 2012)

The chosen one is pretty common, but that's not always a bad thing.  The "wacky sidekick" is probably the most annoying cliche for me, but not necessarily the biggest one.  

For runner-up to chosen one, I'll have to go with "dark lord of chaos/hatred/evil/darkness."


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## Anders Ã„mting (Mar 7, 2012)

I argue that if it's still being widely used, it's probably not a clichÃ©. 

The real biggest clichÃ© is probably one of those nobody would never ever use, because everyone knows what a big clichÃ© it is. "It was a dark and stormy night" is probably the main contender.


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## grahamguitarman (Mar 9, 2012)

I disagree, a cliche doesn't stop being a cliche just because lots of writers are using it


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## Klee Shay (Mar 9, 2012)

Just about any story is going to end up being a cliche. If there isn't some world/empire/kingdom/village shattering event, there'd be no story. Then you have a story about nothing . . . a fantasy 'Seinfeld' so to speak


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## Benjamin Clayborne (Mar 9, 2012)

grahamguitarman said:


> I disagree, a cliche doesn't stop being a cliche just because lots of writers are using it



In fact, wouldn't that make it even _more_ of a clichÃ©?


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## Ghost (Mar 9, 2012)

That's what I thought, Mr. Clayborne.


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## Devor (Mar 9, 2012)

Queshire said:


> Hmm... While the chosen one is certainly a big one, it's limited by the fact that it's still actually used, I mean just look at "Harry Potter" I see your chosen one and raise you a "It was a dark and stormy night..."



I think Harry Potter, if anything, is a case study in how to use a cliche well.  "Chosen One" didn't come up until most of the way through the story, and for a long time it was used mockingly by his peers more than anything.  The point was also stressed, heavily, that he was chosen by another character's actions and that it was their relationship which was the driving source of the conflict.  The prophecy was nothing but a McGuffin.

That's a far cry, for instance, from a story where the main character is declared to be a chosen one with uber powers in the first chapter based on random destiny.  The character then spends long periods of time trying awkwardly to accept this role he's been suddenly thrust into and is ill suited to accept.  Those stories are abundant.


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## The Dark One (Mar 10, 2012)

This might start an argument, although let me assure everyone that I don't mean to cause offence nor to denigrate this genre which we all enjoy...

I believe that fantasy writing is almost always cliched. That doesn't mean it can't be high quality or enjoyable.

But what is fantasy writing - fundamentally and deep down? It's main characteristics are:

- a desire to experience different worlds/milieus

- a desire to experience the freedom (vicariously) of characters unbound by the normal conventions or empowered by special status, artifacts or abilities

- a desire to explore the possibilities of profound/arcane concepts and to make the reader privy to the arcane/admitted to the inner sanctum.

I can't think of a single fantasy story that doesn't have at least one (and usually all three) of these factors. Throw in also some other storytelling conventions (eg, the three act structure; the uplifting fight against overwhelming odds; the journey; the love story etc), and fantasy writing starts to become a bit like country music - writers riffing along very well trodden paths and readers happy to follow where the good writers go.

So what is it that differentiates the really good fantasy writers from the OK and the mediocre? Is it still a fantasy story if it does none of the things described above? I suspect that the really good recognisably fantasy stories do have some (if not all) of the standard features but are done in really original ways or introduce original factors to inspire/confound the reader.

It's still just a variation on a theme...but good.


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## Caged Maiden (Mar 10, 2012)

Devor said:


> That's a far cry, for instance, from a story where the main character is declared to be a chosen one with uber powers in the first chapter based on random destiny.  The character then spends long periods of time trying awkwardly to accept this role he's been suddenly thrust into and is ill suited to accept.  Those stories are abundant.



I'm with you Devor.  

I'm offering up another Harry Potter one, but it wasn't Harry Potter which occurred to me first when I thought of the cliche..... The magic student/ apprentice who is suddenly without a master/ unable to master magic/ suddenly discovers they can do magic.

Yep.  That's what my first book was about too..... back in 2001, before I'd even heard of Harry Potter.  Ah well.... all I can say is that time has done wonders for my creativity.  I wonder if I can go back and edit that into something good.....


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## Benjamin Clayborne (Mar 10, 2012)

The Dark One said:


> So what is it that differentiates the really good fantasy writers from the OK and the mediocre?



Good characters, story structure, and prose style. 

I'm not sure that I agree that the general concept of fantasy that is common to all fantasy literature is "clichÃ©". That's like saying that conflict is clichÃ©, or that having a protagonist is clichÃ©.


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## Devor (Mar 10, 2012)

The Dark One said:


> I can't think of a single fantasy story that doesn't have at least one (and usually all three) of these factors.



Yeah, but those are some of the defining elements and themes of the genre.

I think I would define a cliche as a story trope which appears in a lot of recent poor-to-average writing.  The trope isn't bad in and of itself, but just its presence brings to mind such horrible examples of its use that it might risk alienating readers.  That, to me, is the definition of cliche.


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## Elder the Dwarf (Mar 15, 2012)

How about the dark being/lord/enemy guy who is invincible except for one spot/weapon/weakness that is a glaring hole in his armor?  That one is pretty bad to me.


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## arbiter117 (Mar 16, 2012)

It is this: Farmer lives with uncle (and other relatives) mother is dead, father is unknown. Farmer discovers destiny and meets "that old guy". Uncle and relatives are killed unexpectedly, forcing farm-boy to flee with that old guy and learns more about his destiny along the way. Introducing the love-interest, establishing her as both beautiful and rape/kill-able by every bad guy ever, but she is saved before the deed is done. Love-interest is kidnapped by the Dark Lord and that old guy is killed. Farm-boy, and possible allies he finds along the way, go to defeat the Dark Lord, fighting his inept Dark minions of Death along the way.

Dark Lord, or other arch-enemy, turns out to be farm-boy's father. Farm-boy is conflicted but defeats the Dark Lord. (if its the evil second-in-command who is the father, then evil #2 is converted to good and dies destroying the Dark Lord).

But hey, this story (or parts of it) probably lies beneath most stories. What makes it different is the writer's intricate web of sub plots that makes it exciting every time! hooray!


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## Anders Ã„mting (Mar 16, 2012)

grahamguitarman said:


> I disagree, a cliche doesn't stop being a cliche just because lots of writers are using it



I see I misspoke. I meant it as: "If it's still being widely used, it's probably not _the biggest _clichÃ©."

However, I do think you have it backwards. Just becuase it's widely used doesn't necessarily make it a clichÃ© to begin with - that's just a trope. (Which can still _be_ a clichÃ© depending on how it's generally regarded or used.) 

Basically, it becomes a clichÃ© when people in general start to notice, avoid, complain about and/or make fun of it.


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## grahamguitarman (Mar 16, 2012)

> Originally Posted by *grahamguitarman*
> _I disagree, a cliche doesn't stop being a cliche just because lots of writers are using it_






Anders Ã„mting said:


> I see I misspoke. I meant it as: "If it's still being widely used, it's probably not _the biggest _clichÃ©."
> 
> However, I do think you have it backwards. Just becuase it's widely used doesn't necessarily make it a clichÃ© to begin with - that's just a trope. (Which can still _be_ a clichÃ© depending on how it's generally regarded or used.)
> 
> Basically, it becomes a clichÃ© when people in general start to notice, avoid, complain about and/or make fun of it.



I'm a little confused, where in the above sentence does it say I believe that widely used automatically equals clichÃ©?

My point was that overuse of a clichÃ© does not make it cease to be a clichÃ©, not that a trope is automatically a clichÃ©.

I accept that your original sentence was miss-written and therefore understandably misunderstood by me.  But please refrain from attributing ideas and concepts to me that I have not specifically expressed.


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## Elder the Dwarf (Mar 16, 2012)

arbiter117 said:


> It is this: Farmer lives with uncle (and other relatives) mother is dead, father is unknown. Farmer discovers destiny and meets "that old guy". Uncle and relatives are killed unexpectedly, forcing farm-boy to flee with that old guy and learns more about his destiny along the way. Introducing the love-interest, establishing her as both beautiful and rape/kill-able by every bad guy ever, but she is saved before the deed is done. Love-interest is kidnapped by the Dark Lord and that old guy is killed. Farm-boy, and possible allies he finds along the way, go to defeat the Dark Lord, fighting his inept Dark minions of Death along the way.
> 
> Dark Lord, or other arch-enemy, turns out to be farm-boy's father. Farm-boy is conflicted but defeats the Dark Lord. (if its the evil second-in-command who is the father, then evil #2 is converted to good and dies destroying the Dark Lord).
> 
> But hey, this story (or parts of it) probably lies beneath most stories. What makes it different is the writer's intricate web of sub plots that makes it exciting every time! hooray!



So... Star Wars?


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## Caged Maiden (Mar 17, 2012)

It sounds like Star Wars to me.... but okay I want to do another that I've read too often:

Someone hates their life, and reads a book or imagines something... then weird events happen and they are magically transported to a place where they are no longer a dork that gets bullied, but the savior to a weak race of people or for whatever reason the key to saving the world.  

Ick, I am all for imagining, hell, I write stories about people and places that don't exist, but there's no way in the world I'd believe that being transported to a new world would make my life better.  It would just freak me out.....


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## Caged Maiden (Mar 17, 2012)

HA! I just thought of two books and two movies that fit the cliche I mentioned above.  It's almost like a game, trying to guess whether people are mentioning these with specific stories in mind, or whether it's truly just a mention of the over-used cliche's that are roll-your-eyes bad.

Okay so I just want to put it out there....._ Magic Kingdom for Sale.... Sold! _was this cliche done pretty well.  I enjoyed that series.  I don't want to mention the one I remembered that did it poorly, just in case other people liked it.


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## Lord Darkstorm (Mar 17, 2012)

Witch world took someone from our world and put them in a fantasy world.  Although back when it was written I don't think it was cliche.


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## Androxine Vortex (Mar 17, 2012)

Anything that relates to:
-The Chosen One
-Ancient Prophecy
-End of the World scenario
-Unlikely Hero
-The only one left with a certain power (or only one who is good)


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## Kaellpae (Mar 17, 2012)

Klee Shay said:
			
		

> Just about any story is going to end up being a cliche. If there isn't some world/empire/kingdom/village shattering event, there'd be no story. Then you have a story about nothing . . . a fantasy 'Seinfeld' so to speak



It shall be done.


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## Michaelj (Mar 18, 2012)

Defo the farmer and chosen one cliche.


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## BeigePalladin (Mar 18, 2012)

the biggest fantasy cliche ever? easy:

a world with elements remenicent of the pre-industrial world where certain people -refered to as "wizards", "witches" or what have you. The world will often have a feudal system of govornment. something will occur there.

Though as long as it's written well, this dosen't matter


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## Saigonnus (Mar 18, 2012)

LOL... I think the "chosen one" is pretty clichÃ© as is the "Dark Lord" but with your own spin on it, either one could be considered not AS much of a clichÃ©. The farmer that changes the world is likely just as clichÃ© and a story to back that up is "The Wheel of Time" series by Robert Jordan.


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## Benjamin Clayborne (Mar 18, 2012)

The Wheel of Time (at least, the first books) demonstrate that it's entirely possible to start with the "farmer-who-changes-the-world/chosen one" clichÃ© and make a very good story out of it. I don't think there's necessarily virtue in avoiding those kinds of clichÃ©s just for the sake of avoiding them. If you're a bad writer, avoiding clichÃ©s isn't going to make your writing any better.


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## BeigePalladin (Mar 18, 2012)

Benjamin Clayborne said:


> The Wheel of Time (at least, the first books) demonstrate that it's entirely possible to start with the "farmer-who-changes-the-world/chosen one" clichÃ© and make a very good story out of it. I don't think there's necessarily virtue in avoiding those kinds of clichÃ©s just for the sake of avoiding them. If you're a bad writer, avoiding clichÃ©s isn't going to make your writing any better.



precicly. something is only clich if it is both overused and poorly executed. If it's well written, not matter how common the concept is, it is not a cliche as you can enjoy reading it.

especially since every origion is a cliche (and the few that aren't are used more often without people throwing a paddy)...


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## Saigonnus (Mar 18, 2012)

I agree with everyone here in that just because it's a clichÃ©. doesn't mean you cannot use it for your story and make something wonderful out of it. My WIP is a boy who is a simple farmer; though with a different twist. He inherited the farm from his dad, but doesn't do much with it; leasing the fields to his neighbors and raising only what livestock he needs to live off of. That isn't the focus of the story; It just gives him a basic background.


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