# Bedtime stories to feed a dreamworld that has a boy trapped.



## 2WayParadox (Mar 19, 2015)

Some explanation is needed to clarify this thread's title.

_PS: The question is at the bottom, so you can scroll down if you like, but it won't make a lot of sense to you._

I have a world called the Sphere. The Sphere is a dreamworld that has just one city, called Naimar. The Sphere exists within the mind of the Dreamer, and its inhabitants are called Somnolents. The Somnolents are aware that if the Dreamer were to wake up, they would cease to exist. In order to prevent that, they consistently make it impossible for the Dreamer to go to sleep within the Spere. They lock him up within some kind of torment that keeps him awake so they're safe for another while. The Somnolents can also affect the Sphere through a dream-magic system (that I haven't worked out yet).

The Dreamer is still the creator of the Sphere, so he has power over it. To mark the end of every year, there is an event called the Telling. A female voice sounds throughout the Sphere and tells a story, a bedtime story. It is believed within the Sphere that the Teller is the Dreamer's mother. Each Telling has significant consequences for the Sphere.

The area around Naimar never changes and is believed to reflect the nature around the Dreamer's home. The rest of the Sphere, the Outer Sphere, changes after each Telling. After the last Telling, the 399th, the Outer Sphere turned into desert riddled with caves and robbers (this is not a definitive choice yet).

After every Telling, the Dreamer is disturbed and breaks free from the bonds that the Somnolents have put on him. He roams the Sphere, trying to escape, not knowing that he can only go to sleep in the small cottage where he first woke up within the Sphere. In later years, after the horrors the Somnolents forced him to go through, the Dreamer appears to have lost reason. He starts attacking the Somnolents and using whatever the last Telling conjured against them.

This turn of events changed the Sleepers, one of two religious cults in Naimar. The main cult is called the Wake and is focused on subdueing the Dreamer. The Sleepers originated from within Naimar itself. The Somnolents don't need to worry about food, enough grows around Naimar to support them. They need just harvest it. They have a lot of free time consequently. Some have picked up a trade, but most live a life that could be compared to that of an addict.

Dreams are the life blood of Naimar's social life. A Seed is a dream that one person plants in another's sleeping mind. Passionate couples never sleep at the same time, instead they take turns in giving each other a Seed. To come back to the origin of the Sleepers, some people have succeeded in what is called a Root. It is a Seed so strong that the victim can no longer escape his sleep. It is considered to be death within Naimar. The sleeping bodies are stored below ground by the Sleepers. They don't decay, they just sleep forever. The Sleepers investigate each case through the application of Blooms, which are dreams projected on the cornea of anyone nearby. An investigator will skillfully manipulate the Bloom to reveal information stored in the suspect's unconscious.

After the Dreamer became aggressive, the Sleepers began advocating letting the Dreamer sleep. They expressed scepticism that the Dreamer's Waking would mean their destruction. The cruelty has to stop in their eyes.

This brings me to the present. The 400th Telling has come, and the Dreamer is loose again. The Wake will send out parties to track down and subdue the Dreamer. The Sleepers however will try to smuggle the Dreamer inside Naimar, so he can sleep and escape the Sphere.

My story's plot will revolve around this struggle between the Sleepers and the Wake. 

What I'm having trouble with though is coming up with bedtime stories which can be twisted into creepy stuff (the desert and robbers come from Ali Baba's story, but this is in no way a fixed choice). I only need two. One less important one for the start of the story, and another more important one for the remainder of the story.

*So here's my question:* After reading the setting, what bedtime stories do your brain juices suggest and why? I'm toying with the idea of something set in modern times, since anything to do with modern times and modern technologies will be foreign to the Somnolents. It would also add to the weirdness of the story.


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## 2WayParadox (Mar 20, 2015)

Does the idea not appeal?


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## Letharg (Mar 20, 2015)

First I want to say that I like the idea and it sparks my imagination in a nice way. If I found a story like this in a bookshop I would definitely pick it up. It is a different and well thought out idea with interesting possibilities for plot twists. 

The type of bedtime stories told would depend on the dreamers age and the civilization. But I do have an idea.

Considering you need to have a more dark type of bedtime story if the dreamer would be able to use against the Naimar's it I might do something post-apocalyptic. That gives you an urban landscape, which gives the dreamer an advantage but it would be easy to limit the weapons to what would fit the story. The time frame since the apocalypse could be whatever you decide so most weapons could have broken down, balancing the more advanced society against the Naimar city.

I'll write again if I get any more ideas.


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## 2WayParadox (Mar 20, 2015)

Is there such a thing as a post-apocalyptic bedtime story?


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## Letharg (Mar 20, 2015)

Why not? It's your story and your civilization. But you wanted something in a modern setting and there are hardly any actual bedtime stories set in the modern world, at least not as far as I have read. So why not come up with your own. Besides the mother might know something of his plight and decide to help him by giving him tools so that he can escape easier.


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## 2WayParadox (Mar 20, 2015)

Hmm, I was imagining giving hints that the Dreamer is actually a boy in a coma in our society, and his mother reads him a bedtime story every evening in the hopes that he'll wake up from his coma.

So I'm seeing the dreamworld as a fantasy setting. The bedtime stories don't really have to be modern, they have to be something recognizable that I can twist into something else. I've never had bedtime stories read to me, so I can't recall any that I liked as a child. I read all my books myself.


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## WooHooMan (Mar 20, 2015)

Gnosticism meets solipsism meets Alice in Wonderland?
I have never been so tempted to steal another writer's idea.

I imagine the stories would be very Jungian: characters defined by archetype with simple motivations and very basic conflicts.  Maybe you can find some common parables and use them.

Also, the Dreamer being a kid in a coma is a horrible twist and you shouldn't do it.


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## 2WayParadox (Mar 20, 2015)

Is it a horrible twist? If the Wake wins,the Somnolents get to live but the Dreamer stays asleep. If the Sleepers win, then the Somnolents cease to exist, and the Dreamer wakes up in his home world.

How did you make sense of an event like the Telling then?


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## Noldona (Mar 20, 2015)

First, I want to say it sounds like a great concept for a story. I would definitely read it.



2WayParadox said:


> Hmm, I was imagining giving hints that the Dreamer is actually a boy in a coma in our society, and his mother reads him a bedtime story every evening in the hopes that he'll wake up from his coma.



This makes perfect sense. In fact, when I read the initial description of the story, that is immediately where my mind went. If the child isn't in a coma, I am not sure how this story would work. Though it does lead to a



WooHooMan said:


> I imagine the stories would be very Jungian: characters defined by archetype with simple motivations and very basic conflicts.  Maybe you can find some common parables and use them.



I agree. Most bedtime stories seem to be Jungian in nature already. However, nothing says you need to stick with pre-written bedtime stories. When I have told my daughter bedtime stories, I almost never use any from a book. I like to come up with the story on the fly. The mother could be an imaginative writer who comes up with her own stories to tell her child. But, working within the Jungian Archetype structure makes stories easier to come up with and easier to relate to.


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## 2WayParadox (Mar 20, 2015)

It's just that I'd like a known story, in order to make it more recognizable that the Dreamer is actually a boy in our world.

Another possibility is to start the book with a scene where his mother reads him a story, and he goes to sleep. Then he wakes in Naimar for the first time and goes exploring. I wouldn't want to make this too long, since a prologue should be short. Then the ending will depend on the events in the story. He might wake up, they might pull the plug, I don't know.

With this road, I'd be more free to make the mother someone who makes up stories for her child.


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## WooHooMan (Mar 20, 2015)

As far as stories go, I say stick with the classics - those can either be nice or dark depending on which ending you go with.  Little Red Riding Hood: did Red and Granny escape the wolf or did the wolf eat both of them?  Three Little Pigs: I've heard version that end with the pigs eating the wolf.

As far as the kid-coma thing being cliched, when I studied screenwriting, I was told that there were two things you should never do in a story: begin with someone waking-up and end with someone waking-up.
The "it was all a dream" thing has always been one of the worst and most hated cliches in fiction.

As far as internal logic goes: dreams rarely last longer than fifteen minutes regardless of how long or how deep a person is sleeping.  Also, there is no logic in dreams.  Hence why Through the Looking Glass is so chaotic and weird.  You have a whole consistent mythology in your setting, which is something that dream logic cannot sustain.
More importantly, people within dreams do not have free will or agency.  And having a story where the characters have no agency is, y'know, it's like "why bother?"
I'm keeping my explanation short because I'm on my iPad rathe than a computer so sorry I can't explain this better.

Like I said, I like your idea but I feel this coma twist could potentially ruin an otherwise cool story.  I think the God-like solipsistic being should just be a god-like solipsistic being.


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## 2WayParadox (Mar 20, 2015)

Hmm, I'm not sure if the 'it was all a dream critique' applies here. The story would very much be 'It is all within someone's dream' from the start, there would be no cheesy plot twist that sprains the dreamness on the reader.

As to internal logic, to me there are plenty of elements within the Sphere that make it a dodgy place. Yet Naimar is the one stable place within that Sphere. I'm thinking of treating Naimar as a city high in magic. In the Outer Sphere, all kind sof things can happy, especially with the Dreamer around, but within Naimar, they have control. 

The Dreamer is trapped in his dream for 400 years now, according to the Somnolents' timescale, so I'm waving the idea that my story happens within one brief dream. 

It's also important to realize that the boy is not the MC of the story. He contains the Sphere, he is the Dreamer, he's been tortured to stay awake and has turned mad because of it. He's the monster.

I'm not sure who I'd pick as the MC. A Sleeper or someone from the Wake.


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## Asura Levi (Mar 20, 2015)

If I know from the start that he is trapped in a dream, I wouldn't have a problem with the 'it was all a dream' in the end, since I knew it.

Now, if they pull the plug, I would throw your book through the window (as I did with 'fault in our stars') [metaphorically]


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## WooHooMan (Mar 20, 2015)

2WayParadox said:


> It's also important to realize that the boy is not the MC of the story. He contains the Sphere, he is the Dreamer, he's been tortured to stay awake and has turned mad because of it. He's the monster.
> 
> I'm not sure who I'd pick as the MC. A Sleeper or someone from the Wake.





WooHooMan said:


> More importantly, people within dreams do not have free will or agency.  And having a story where the characters have no agency is, y'know, it's like "why bother?".



I've actually written two stories dealing with a similar theme (the world is someone else's dream) so I'm just telling you what I've found to be the best way to approach it.  You sound pretty sold on the coma idea so go for it.  I just think it's a bad idea.


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## 2WayParadox (Mar 21, 2015)

You made something like the Cell?


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## WooHooMan (Mar 21, 2015)

2WayParadox said:


> You made something like the Cell?



The Jennifer Lopez movie?  No.  I've just write fantasy stories where the main characters are in someone else's dream.
Are you saying that your story is inspired by The Cell?  I would never have guessed.


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## 2WayParadox (Mar 21, 2015)

No, it's not. But it's the only movie apart from Inception that I can recall being set in a dream. The way you described the characters being submitted to the dream and having no agency reminded me of the weird stuff that went on in that movie.

With 'like the Cell' I meant a story in which seemingly random and weird stuff happens. I want the Outer Sphere to be like that, but Naimar has to be a stable place that can be seen as a fantasy setting.

You said you'd leave the Dreamer as an actual deity instead of a boy in a coma. But the Telling is crucial event in this story, and the thought of having a god have stories read tohim by his mother just feels odd to me. I wouldn't mind another angle on the story, but it's the best way I've come up with to explain the background.


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## WooHooMan (Mar 21, 2015)

When I said "deity", I meant within the dream.

Gnosticism has a similar mythos as yours: the goddess-mother's voice from outside the universe carries into the universe where her god-son is all-powerful.  The thing you could add is creating a relationship between the mom and child which would give the whole mythology more humanity and depth.  Also, you'd be adding dream symbolism which is neat.

You could just have it be that the Dreamer and his mom aren't human.  That's really all I'm suggesting.  I don't think human dreams really work for the story you're trying to tell.

But again: it's your call.


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## Elrik Blackhaven (Mar 21, 2015)

I love the idea, fantastic concept. I also agree with your leaning towards established bedtime stories that can be twisted within the sphere. I think the reader will be able to identify with what is going on easier. So, we need to consider established stories with an element that can be expanded upon.

Jack and the beanstalk- roaming angry giants
Hansel and Gretel - Witches
Red Riding Hood- Wolves
Goldilocks- Bears
The Sorcerer's Apprentice- Magic gone awry. 
Chicken Little- The sky is falling

Longer stories could be :
Peter Pan
Alice in Wonderland
The Wizard of Oz
The Green Knight

They all are loaded with things that can be twisted.


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## 2WayParadox (Mar 22, 2015)

I'm thinking of using Watership Down as the source for my Outer Sphere, with the twist that the forests, animals and fields are huge while the Dreamer, the Somnolents and Naimar remain normal size. The animals can talk, so they're part of the story in a real way. I haven't read the book though, I only watched an animated version of it as a child.


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## WooHooMan (Mar 22, 2015)

2WayParadox said:


> I'm thinking of using Watership Down as the source for my Outer Sphere, with the twist that the forests, animals and fields are huge while the Dreamer, the Somnolents and Naimar remain normal size. The animals can talk, so they're part of the story in a real way. I haven't read the book though, I only watched an animated version of it as a child.



That's one of my favorite books.

I would kind of prefer you don't use it.  You should probably stick to something more public domain.


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## 2WayParadox (Mar 23, 2015)

Any story I use will just determine the setting. I'd read the story to get the feel for it, but I wouldn't use the names and characters from the story. I don't want to get involved with that kind of comparison.


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## Nagash (Mar 23, 2015)

This is a very strong plot, and I would definitely give this a read, were you to publish it some day. Love the concept - and I believe the whole kid in the coma thing fits nicely with the rest. Kudos


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