# Dragons: Rawr!



## AlexanderKira (Nov 24, 2011)

Yes, the biggest cliche now in the world of fantasy...Dragons. Though some writers can manage to pull it off, Martin, Rothfuss, Paolini(God knows why), but many can call it the biggest cliche in fantasy. I have a question, because I have been pondering or whether or not to add them to my story. 

In almost every Dragon story I have read, not many, the story takes place AFTER the Dragons. They're always extinct, except for one of course, they always wait and choose one particular person, they're things of legend. So I was thinking, why not write a story where Dragons are as common as cows. They've always been there, and people expect them to always be there, then some big plot twist! It's just formulating in my head right now, whattya think?


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## TWErvin2 (Nov 24, 2011)

I don't know if dragons are cliche or not.  I've included them in my fantasy works (Flank Hawk and recently released Blood Sword). In my novels, they're normally encountered as serpent steeds. They're not the super intelligent, speaking and spell-casting beasts of legend, but they're formidable--fire, teeth, claws and make them so. In my world, they're somewhat rare (except for the elite serpent cavalry), and certainly not common as cows.

Another member here (Map the Dragon), his novel (Firesoul) has a dragon in it. Dragons are not common in his world either, and the dragon in his novel is one of a cadre of characters--the dragon is intelligent and sarcastic, self-important, and pretty darn tough.

With those examples of writers here, I'd say you're safe to including dragons in your story. Just a few questions: 
What part do they play in your world--and do they fit? 
What part will they play in the story--and do they fit? 
Will they add to the storyline or be a sideline, or a distraction?

Whatever you decide, hope it works out. For my two cents, dragons will always have a place in fantasy--not in every world, or story, or tale, but never extinct from all future literary works.


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## OblivionJones (Nov 24, 2011)

I've always felt that, in stories in which dragons are very rare, the dragons in question serve the purpose of the mythical giants that once walked the earth. They're the remnants of a much more savage and magical age. Sometimes they're survivors of a pre-human time or a time when humans were less precocious than they are in the current timeline. Often, though, I've found this to be a sound method of using dragons simply because of the power the typical fantasy dragon holds. Be it Smaug with his nose for Hobbits and great treasure horde or the thousand-year-old wise old lizard that knows the thing the hero needs, dragons have typically been powerful and hyper-intelligent. Hell, even in the very first Dungeons and Dragons monster manuals many of the dragons are listed as being incredibly intelligent by virtue of their advanced age.

Having too many of them in a story makes them the absolute apex predator, or one of them, in terms of both numbers as well as raw potential power in various categories. It makes you have to make an excuse why these creatures aren't ruling the world, to oversimplify vastly a complicated statement. If people always expect dragons, you have to figure out in which capacity they expect them. Can dragons be easily killed? Do they rule humanity as reptilian overlords? Are they, somehow, against all reasonable odds, on amicable terms with humans? 

I agree with TWErvin2, though, on dragons always having a place in fantasy. They sure as hell had a place in the mythos of the vast majority of human cultures, why not in our fiction? I've read books where dragons were less intelligent, less powerful and found that to be almost insulting. I don't think I could ever put dragons on the level of the baddie to be dogged out by the sword-wielding hero/heroine.


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## AlexanderKira (Nov 24, 2011)

You both have proven my point, by explaining that in the stories you have both read they are super powerful, intelligent, and mystical creatures. It happens all the time, almost every story I have read has Dragons where they were so powerful that they had to destroy the evil, or something like that. I was just thinking that what if in a world, Dragons were domesticated, like pigs, sheep, cows, etc. People relied on them, much as dragons relied on their masters. Sure a child would still get mystified at a giant snake with wings, but the adults who are used to them act as such. 

My point is, people find Dragons so amazing and fantastical. Well I could do the same with pigs, I could make them extinct and them bring them back, an animal that people have never seen, then people would react to them the same they would to dragons they had never seen. 

If I read a story with Elves, dwarves, orcs, etc, then I consider it to be somewhat cliche, adding dragons is the same. For holy sake, why not use Griffins? Those are also part of mythology, but they are never used as much as dragons. 

The story is fleshed out yet, just a random idea.


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## SeverinR (Nov 25, 2011)

The only problem with lots of dragons, is food supply.
Dragons are usually a large reptile, anything large needs alot of food.
So if you have a dozen dragons, you will need a dozen brontosaurus(or whatever the large herbavores are called now) daily or every other day, 2 dozen cows or equivalent, or an over abundance of small prey to feed them. This would deplete a territory quickly if to many dragons lived in one area.

My kingdom has 10 dragon teams to guard Capital city, with a total dragon force of 30-40 dragon teams for the country, smaller countries might have  a couple if any at all.  Not all dragons are in service to the kingdom, so there are more dragons to deal with.  

Dealing with the basic problems of feeding them, keeping them from taking over(destroying) the world, also if dragons are common, then humans would know how to fight them off, or kill them better then if they were believed to be extinct.

Another possible story, territory over run by dragon food(cows, deer, etc) brings a over population of dragons, but then the food grows scarce, what will the dragons do?


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## Sheilawisz (Nov 25, 2011)

In the main world of my series there are dragons, but they are not super intelligent and talking mystical creatures!! They are just wild beasts living in remote regions and sometimes seen flying in the sky, and the cities of common people have adopted heavy artillery as a mean to fight off dragons when they try to attack =)

They are not important for the story at all, just like... background creatures

Now, I have other kind of snake-like "dragons" that are intelligent and talking, but those are actually magical creatures created by the mages and used as their pets and minions to carry out missions and stuff... they are not really intelligent, and not so powerful after all- it takes thousands of them to fight just a few mages!!

Almost every fan of Fantasy will like dragons =) Why don't you include them in your story, but giving them a different name and creating a species of dragon that is unique and never seen before??


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## lawrence (Nov 25, 2011)

Dragons have appeal, and still have a part to play in Fantasy, as fellow scribes have said. Buy yes, I agree that bringing in a different angle would be good. I recall reading about the Balrogs of Tolkien's 1st Age wars. They were immense malevolent creatures, much like dragons, but very intriguing and exciting to read about. Creating a new beast with similar elements as the 'industry standard' dragon could be a way. But even better would be an idea that gives your story a striking new angle.


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## Phoenix (Nov 25, 2011)

Ha! Look at the symbol next to mythic scribes. Perfect example of how dragons have impacted fantasy. But wasn't one of the first creative fantasy about dragons?


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## AlexanderKira (Nov 25, 2011)

Pheonix, because one person put a dragon on a symbol for a site, doesn't mean it impacted everyone. What fantasy are you talking about with dragons?


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## Phoenix (Nov 25, 2011)

Oh, I'm sorry did I say that impacted everyone? I was just pointing out that this site had a dragon as its icon. If I knew that I would have posted in previous comment. Notice the question mark?


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## AlexanderKira (Nov 25, 2011)

If you were just pointing out that the site had an icon, why wouldn't you just say that specifically instead of saying it impacted fantasy as a general, like you did. If you don't know what you're talking about, then why post about it?


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## Phoenix (Nov 25, 2011)

Okay so I shouldn't ask questions? So I should remain ignorant in my understandings? Also you posted asking a question. You don't know my answer so why are posting about something you don't know about (double negative in da face!) It was just a quick reply to this pointing out something very minor about this website regarding the website. I thought we were have an ineluctable chat with people. I guess I misjudged and didn't clarify. But you can't say it has not affected this website, a dragon appears above every time.


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## Phoenix (Nov 25, 2011)

(Should have review above statement before posting)


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## AlexanderKira (Nov 25, 2011)

Never did I say that you shouldn't ask questions. I did post asking a question, congratulations for pointing out the obvious. I shouldn't be expected to know the answer to your question, when you do not even know the answer yourself. That would be like me not having a girlfriend, then laughing at you for not having one, it holds no relevant sense. 

P.S. I can tell you have much to learn through questions since you started a sentence off with a conjunction.


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## Phoenix (Nov 25, 2011)

Oh, I'm so very sorry for not writing with proper grammar and spelling skills on a forum. Anyways,  Mr.Specific I didn't point you out of a crowd to answer my question. It was a general question. I didn't expect for you to have the answer. If you knew great, if not that's fine too. I was hoping someone would answer for me, but it didn't have to be you.  Really this a childish debate. If all you do is go over your forum postings and try challenging someone over something so small you need to get a life. Anyways I'm going to work on my novel for a little bit. I'm done playing your games. Have fun playing with pieces that won't move!


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## AlexanderKira (Nov 25, 2011)

Thank you for the win, since you obviously just dropped the "debate" because you didn't reply. Well, I would expect proper spelling and grammar if its on a fantasy WRITING site, where you're supposed to WRITE. Yes, but it felt easy to pick on your answer. What's really childish is realizing you can't win so you quit. Actually if this was a chess match(to which I believe you are referring) then if my opponent didn't move his pieces, I would win..


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## AlexanderKira (Nov 25, 2011)

I call checkmate


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## Devor (Nov 25, 2011)

What is going on here . . . ?

I think it's obviously true that dragons have had a tremendous impact on the fantasy genre which cannot easily be overstated, and I think the tremendous awe of the dragon is why they have been utilized and explored to the point of cliche.  But of themselves, they are not cliche.  They are classic, as are elves and dwarves and wizards and a great pantheon of gods.  They are a part of the real history and tradition of the fantastic tale and will never properly disappear.

I will add, it means something to a writer to have a cache of familiar elements to draw upon.  The epic moments should come from the story and the art, and having too many original elements can clog up the writing.  It's best to save the originality for the pieces which are most important to the story.


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## Devor (Nov 25, 2011)

AlexanderKira said:


> I call checkmate



Checkmate . . . ?  His post held a valid point and a reasonable effort to build the discussion, why would you want to put him down just because you disagree?  I think this is a _community_ of fantasy writers and not a forum for hating on each other.


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## AlexanderKira (Nov 25, 2011)

I didn't say that dragons didn't have an impact, as I recall I was stating that I hate how they have made a huge impact.


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## AlexanderKira (Nov 25, 2011)

You should stop after you said I think, this is a community of writers to help each other. It's called tough love, you don't get anywhere if people never question you.


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## Devor (Nov 25, 2011)

AlexanderKira said:


> I didn't say that dragons didn't have an impact, as I recall I was stating that I hate how they have made a huge impact.





> You should stop after you said I think, this is a community of writers to help each other. It's called tough love, you don't get anywhere if people never question you.



Ohh man.  You got me, I totally thought you thought that dragons had the same impact on fantasy as a herd of pigs.  My point was dumb and I take it all back.  Thanks for the tough love, but I found it too hard to deal with.  I think I'll steer clear for a while.  But welcome to Mythic Scribes and good luck on your experiences with the community.

((edit))  Darnit, that sentence started with a conjugate.  I should fix that, but instead I'll let it stand as a warning to other writers.


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## AlexanderKira (Nov 25, 2011)

So we've resorted to sarcasm have we? I find that you too are being a little too tough, I think you're being hypocritical. I'll be honest, I don't know how to respond to this sarcasm, congratulations you won a battle that you made fun of.


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## Benjamin Clayborne (Nov 25, 2011)

AlexanderKira said:


> So we've resorted to sarcasm have we? I find that you too are being a little too tough, I think you're being hypocritical. I'll be honest, I don't know how to respond to this sarcasm, congratulations you won a battle that you made fun of.



You guys both need to chill out. There's no need for the negative attitude going on here. If you can't act like adults, this probably isn't the forum for you.


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## Kevlar (Nov 26, 2011)

Benjamin I applaud your maturity, as it appears this thread is short on such, and I thank you for your intervention.

Addressing the actual issue of this thread, no, I do not believe dragons are always clichÃ©. They are sometimes, but not always. It is when a writer falls into the trench dug by the trampling feet of those who came before and does not attempt to forgo that all-too-well-trodden path that dragons become tedious. Like elves they can be made interesting. Like elves they are all too often identical to those found in the other books sharing the shelf.

When an author focuses his creativity on the old conventions and instills them with a new mystery that we can enjoy them again.


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## Devor (Nov 26, 2011)

Benjamin Clayborne said:


> You guys both need to chill out.



You're right, and I'm sorry for my last post.  I can only say that I tried to be mature first and found myself being goaded into an argument.  I apologize for taking the low road.


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## Kelise (Nov 26, 2011)

*The mods are keeping an eye on this thread and those involved. Please move on and continue the discussion as adults.*

_(As of yet, I haven't had to hand out infractions and I don't wish to start now.)_

As for the topic at hand, Robin Hobb involves dragons in her work. In some they're almost extinct and they manage to bring them back, and in her latest series I think they're almost common - I'm not sure, as I haven't worked my way through all of her books just yet. In this, they are very intelligent and basically demand that everyone bows down to them. They also have a range of powers that the humans aren't gifted with.

Harry Potter has dragons that are pretty common. Avoided and basically outlawed, but common and seem like they'll be there for a while yet. They don't seem to be that 'super powerful, intelligent, and mystical', though they are used as wand cores, I suppose.


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## AlexanderKira (Nov 26, 2011)

Robin Hobb has dragons in her story? Well she's a fantastic writer; so maybe she can actually pull it off. See, Elves can be interesting, but most of the time authors make them perfect in every way. In my story I have them as a deformation of Humans, and the Elves believe the opposite. Will I include dragons? No, I don't believe that I am at a high enough level to change a giant cliche into something interesting. All I am saying is that people have run it dry, it's a used up idea.


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## myrddin173 (Nov 26, 2011)

In Naomi Novik's Temeraire series dragons are a dime a dozen.  They are used as an air force during Napoleon times.  I think she did a very good job adapting them to serve her purposes.  

As for the pigs, I would strongly disagree.  The reason it works with dragons is that they are magical, or close to it.  Pigs, well unless they can fly, are not.  People would probably just say, "Hmmm, can we eat that?"  This is just my opinion.

I would also say dragons are not so much a cliche as they are a trope.  Here is the difference according to tvtropes:


> Tropes are devices and conventions that a writer can reasonably rely on as being present in the audience members' minds and expectations. On the whole, tropes are not clichÃ©s. The word clichÃ©d means "stereotyped and trite." In other words, dull and uninteresting.


  As of yet dragons are still "cool"


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## Ghost (Nov 26, 2011)

It's odd that dragons are so often wise, communicative, and in decline (just like those damn elves). And what is with the mysterious bonds? It comes up in the Inheritance trilogy, Pern novels, and, to some degree, ASoIaF. Why would a person share a spiritual and mental connection with a massive reptile? It's so weird. Even so, I think there's still room for dragons that are different.



AlexanderKira said:


> So I was thinking, why not write a story where Dragons are as common as cows. They've always been there, and people expect them to always be there, then some big plot twist! It's just formulating in my head right now, whattya think?



I've seen at least one book where small dragons were very common. It wasn't memorable, so I've forgotten the name and the plot. Would your story's focus be the proliferation of dragons? Or are they more of a background detail? Without knowing the conflict or the plot twist in your story, I can't give you much of an opinion on it because making "dragons as common as cows" doesn't tell me much. Even with all books about dragons, I can't know what kind you're using from the word "dragon" alone (big or small? sapient or not? etc). It's not meaningful or interesting as is.


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## Liu Xaun (Nov 26, 2011)

Last night I watched Dream Works "How to Train Your Dragon". I was amazed at their unique portrayal. From making them swarming creatures, to giving the main dragon cat-like characteristics to make it more sympathetic. It was so good!


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## mirrorrorrim (Nov 26, 2011)

AlexanderKira said:


> Yes, the biggest cliche now in the world of fantasy...Dragons. Though some writers can manage to pull it off, Martin, Rothfuss, Paolini(God knows why), but many can call it the biggest cliche in fantasy. I have a question, because I have been pondering or whether or not to add them to my story.
> 
> In almost every Dragon story I have read, not many, the story takes place AFTER the Dragons. They're always extinct, except for one of course, they always wait and choose one particular person, they're things of legend. So I was thinking, why not write a story where Dragons are as common as cows. They've always been there, and people expect them to always be there, then some big plot twist! It's just formulating in my head right now, whattya think?



This sounds like an interesting story. I think one of the things that is making dragons cliche is that they are far too common. The historical/mythical dragon _is_ extremely rare, on the same level as a devil, an angel, or even a god. In China, dragons were so revered that only the emperor was allowed to wear, own, or display an actual dragon picture (to get around this, artists would draw dragons with extra digits on their hands, so they weren't depicting "real" dragons). One of the things that made the founder of the Ming so revered by the people was that he purportedly had the power to control the dragons, something no emperor before or after could claim. To the Chinese, there was no "fantasy" aspect to dragons–they were real creatures and omens of great (and often calamitous) events.

Historically, dragons are just as real as Christian angels, probably even moreso, since they span so many different cultures.

I think when writers have "tame" dragons, dragons that are subservient to or even partners with humans, they are moving drastically away from the historical basis of their source material, much more than any sparkling vampires do.

Pushing that trend to its absolute extreme could be very interesting.

And who knows? Maybe it'll inspire another story some day about people domesticating angels! I can see shortwing seraphs being a _big_ hit with teenage girls!


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## Ghost (Nov 26, 2011)

mirrorrorrim said:


> I think when writers have "tame" dragons, dragons that are subservient to or even partners with humans, they are moving drastically away from the historical basis of their source material, much more than any sparkling vampires do.



Aha! That's exactly what I dislike about most fantasy dragons. Characterizing them as tame creatures makes them less awesome, less fearsome. It is just another animal. Or, in the stories where dragons talk to humans, the dragon is really just another human. Knight-slaying European dragons or lordly Asian dragons are impressive. A dragon like that is powerful, fierce, and proud. It's not somebody's pony.

Even if you tame a dragon, I imagine it would be like taming any other ferocious beast. You have to remain vigilant because instinct may kick in one day, and it'll gobble you up. If it's one of those talking dragons, you'd have to make working with you worth its while. I imagine doubling to its hoard would work. I don't think I've read something where either was the case. The dragons are either more docile than horses or insanely generous (which totally explains why they're dying out ).


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## Shadoe (Nov 27, 2011)

AlexanderKira said:


> So I was thinking, why not write a story where Dragons are as common as cows. They've always been there, and people expect them to always be there, then some big plot twist! It's just formulating in my head right now, whattya think?


Dragons tend to be big, and they eat a lot. Hard to support a large dragon population.

Also, they're not interesting if there are a lot of them. Ask yourself: how interesting are cows?


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## Steerpike (Nov 27, 2011)

Ouroboros said:


> Aha! That's exactly what I dislike about most fantasy dragons. Characterizing them as tame creatures makes them less awesome, less fearsome.



Yes, I also prefer fantasy world where dragons (if they are going to have them) are nasty, dangerous creatures that you do not want to encounter.

I don't have them in any of my fiction. I have them in my homebrew D&D world, and in that setting there are a set number of dragons, and as far as anyone knows those same dragons have always existed. If one is killed, there is simply one less dragon in the world as they do not reproduce. But it is not at all likely that humans and the like will ever kill one. So far as anyone knows, they've only died at the hands of other dragons. They're rare enough that many people don't believe they exist, but when they show up they are like a force of nature, and almost impossible to withstand. I like them


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## Benjamin Clayborne (Nov 28, 2011)

Shadoe said:


> Dragons tend to be big, and they eat a lot. Hard to support a large dragon population.
> 
> Also, they're not interesting if there are a lot of them. Ask yourself: how interesting are cows?



People are interesting, and there's more of them than there are of cows. Also, cows are extremely interesting to the subset of the population whose livelihoods depend on them, or who have a scientific or socioeconomic interest in them.

Dragons being common megafauna does not mean they wouldn't be interesting. It's just the background of how the world works. Fantasy does not have to be realistic; so it wouldn't make sense _in the real world_ to have that many apex predators running around, but so what? In this made-up fantasy world, that's how it is.


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## Shadoe (Nov 28, 2011)

Humans are interesting to other humans. I doubt cows find them interesting. Of course, I doubt cows find anything interesting.


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## SeverinR (Nov 28, 2011)

How about this as a topic:
Are humans cliche?
Should we stop writing about them?  They're in almost every literary piece, I think they have been written to death.

Any creature, or any race, any species can be written about without being cliche.  If you can write about a human, then it can be written about any threatened cliche.
Cliche is the problem, nothing has to be cliche if you avoid falling in the pit.
Am I wrong?  Have writers not written about humans since there was a written language, but we still find interesting things to write about humans.
The writers job is to make what they write interesting and avoid cliche.  Nothing known to man or mans fantasy is automatically cliche, the writer fails when they drop into cliche.


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## Map the Dragon (Nov 29, 2011)

I like dragons.

Just thought I'd leave that here.

Also, read that line in the voice of the I like turtles kid. If you have no idea what I'm talking about, I apologize.


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## Erica (Nov 30, 2011)

Mercedes Lackey and Andre Norton's Elfsbane books have dragons that are essentially an intelligent and civilized race that are not extinct.

Ursula K Le Guin's Earthsea books still have quite a lot of dragons. They mostly live apart from humans, but they're still there.

Anne McCaffrey's Dragonrider books also come to mind, though they're more Sci Fi than Fantasy with dragons being a human-created species.

I think the reason dragons are often portrayed as an old race that is nearly extinct is because they are amazingly powerful creatures that would take a lot of resources to support in large numbers (so they never would have been super abundant-the ultimate in k strategists in ecological terms), and once little humans arrived on the scene and populated the planet, we took all the resources for ourselves. The longer lived, slower reproducing species just lost out. In real life, large bodied species that reproduce slowly tend to be the most vulnerable to extinction. Especially if we like to make things out of their body parts or regard them as competition for resources we want. They're a nice metaphor for what we've been doing to whales, elephants, tigers, rhinos and other such creatures in our own history.

A common theme in fantasy is a changing of the times or transition between an 'old' order where magic is the thing and a 'new' order where humans (and their technology) are taking over and all the elder races are slowly losing out.

Also, having a story where dragons (or another 'elder' race) are being resurrected from near extinction is pretty cool.


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## grahamguitarman (Dec 4, 2011)

I've not been on here for quite a while - Ill health has limited my activities for the las few months (and now I'm just trying to catch up again) 

Despite the rather childish argument at the beginning, this has been interesting to read.  My attitude is that Dragons (and elves / humans / orcs ect) are only as boring and cliched as the writer who creates them.  I love the Pern novels by McCaffrey, and wish I could have come up with such a wonderful world of dragons (though I would have made it more fantasy than sci-fi) but generally I think Dragons work best as isolated magical creatures not as common wildlife.

To me Dragons are not just large flying creatures - they are huge and powerful manifestations of magic, once you make them as common as cattle then you would have a world in which humans would be extinct (or at best cattle for the dragons).

one very interesting take on dragons I saw recently was in Miyazaki's Spirited Away, the idea of rivers being dragons was pretty cool and original (or at least to me)


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## Erica (Dec 5, 2011)

grahamguitarman said:


> I've not been on here for quite a while - Ill health has limited my activities for the las few months (and now I'm just trying to catch up again)
> 
> ...
> 
> one very interesting take on dragons I saw recently was in Miyazaki's Spirited Away, the idea of rivers being dragons was pretty cool and original (or at least to me)



Wb! Hope you feel better. I loved that movie.


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## mirrorrorrim (Dec 5, 2011)

grahamguitarman said:


> I've not been on here for quite a while - Ill health has limited my activities for the las few months (and now I'm just trying to catch up again)
> 
> Despite the rather childish argument at the beginning, this has been interesting to read.  My attitude is that Dragons (and elves / humans / orcs ect) are only as boring and cliched as the writer who creates them.  I love the Pern novels by McCaffrey, and wish I could have come up with such a wonderful world of dragons (though I would have made it more fantasy than sci-fi) but generally I think Dragons work best as isolated magical creatures not as common wildlife.
> 
> ...



The idea of kami—spirits that embody many different parts of nature, including rivers, mountains, etc.—is a central component of Shinto, the national religion of Japan. So, in that respect, Miyazaki wasn't being original within his own culture. What he did do, however, and why I love Spirited Away so much, is embody the concept in a very beautiful way, that children and adults alike can appreciate. When they were younger, Spirited Away was one of the favorite films of my two neices, and I always loved watching it with them because I could appreciate it as well.

I think most of the great concepts of fantasy come from the various religions of the world, both past and present. The trick is, like Miyazaki, convenying those concepts in a meaningful way. I think if done correctly, dragons will never use their novelty. It's the often poorly-executed characterization of them that has made their modern reputation suffer. Unfortunately, if an idea is a good one, it's sure to be mimiced by all authors, including the bad ones.

It'll be interesting to see if Peter Jackson can pull off the dragon Smaug in his new Hobbit movies. Maybe it's time for a dragon Renaissance?


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## SeverinR (Dec 5, 2011)

mirrorrorrim said:


> It'll be interesting to see if Peter Jackson can pull off the dragon Smaug in his new Hobbit movies. Maybe it's time for a dragon Renaissance?



How about the year of the dragon 2012?


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## Telcontar (Dec 5, 2011)

Also love dragons, and provided they aren't shat on like the recent foo-foo vampire fad, I'll never get tired of 'em. The first book I ever tried to write was titled Dragon's Magic. It had all sorts of dragons, of all shapes and sizes. 

I think a large part of the fascination with dragons is not only that most cultures have some version of them, but that they're always powerful creatures. At least, I've never heard of a a dragon myth where the dragon was anything but an engine of destruction (if it wished to be) or possessed of arcane knowledge and wisdom. Add to that the fact that they're beautiful (also a constant), and they've got a lot going for them.

I'm trying a different take on the dragon thing in a (planned) book, where dragons are the familiar myth of many cultures (meant to completely parallel the real world) but that at the base of all these ancient myths is a real creature, _the_ Dragon, who is a sort of spirit-creature gestalt manifestation of the natural world (or in this book, the mortal world).


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## Wormtongue (Dec 12, 2011)

I had originally planned to skip the dragons in my WIP but then decided to include them.  But as simple beasts, similar to large raptor dinosaurs.  No wings.  No breathing fire.  That said, they're still fearsome and few men would face one.  Fewer still would survive if they did.


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## Ziggy (Jan 5, 2012)

Liu Xaun said:


> Last night I watched Dream Works "How to Train Your Dragon". I was amazed at their unique portrayal. From making them swarming creatures, to giving the main dragon cat-like characteristics to make it more sympathetic. It was so good!



I also loved these dragons, they had so much character.

I too prefer my dragons as "beasts". They can be cunning, intelligent, etc. Not in a human way, but in a predatory reptilian way.

I'm not such a fan of dragons that can talk. Bit Eurgh when humans start chatting to dragons for me. But if it's done really well I can cop it.


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