# Real life drugs in a fantasy setting



## Chessie (Jan 29, 2015)

*Note to mods: if this is in the wrong forum, please move it for me. Thank you.*

Hello, Scribes. Quick question: would it be weird to call a drug by its real life name in a fantasy setting?

My WIP features opium and its a big part of the plot. I looked up its street names and well, they don't sound all that specific. Tar, black tar, along with some Asian sounding names. If I try to call it anything else that sounds "cool" then I'm concerned it will confuse readers. Would it be so bad to just call it opium even though the story takes place in an alternate universe (set in the 1700s Earth)?

I'd love your opinions and any suggestions. Much appreciated.


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## Devor (Jan 29, 2015)

Well, I mean, opium was a thing during these times.  I don't see a reason to beat around the bush about it.  You could use opium once or twice and then give it your own nickname, if you think that helps.  Or how does GRRM put it?  Fruit of the poppy?  There's a few options.


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## Queshire (Jan 29, 2015)

Personally I would create a new name for it even if it is in all ways the same as the real life drug. Yes, it's less dramatic, but people are less likely to have a negative to a fantasy drug than a real life drug, and you have a ready made excuse if you get something about the drug wrong.

That said though, there's nothing wrong with going with the real world name either *shrug*


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## Letharg (Jan 29, 2015)

It should be fine to call it opium and stick with it if you want to. I do not think the readers will be bored or thrown out of the story by the use of a real life drug. 

But in case you want to change the name, does the reader really need to know that it is opium? You could put any name to it and then describe the effect of the drug, some people would associate it to the real life drug and some would not. So go with what you like unless there is a specific reason the reader need to associate the drug with opium.


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## Laurence (Jan 29, 2015)

Are you planning on renaming everything that exists in the real world ie. tables/grass? If not, I see no reason you shouldn't call it opium.

In England most people call it scag or smack.


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## Chessie (Jan 29, 2015)

Hm, that's a good point. ^^ I've just been wondering if it would throw readers off seeing it named for what it is. But seems the consensus here is nope.

Smack (at least where I live) refers to heroin not opium which is smoked. Funny.  The reason why I chose this drug is because of its popularity in the time frame which I'm writing in and the effects it has on the main characters.

Thanks all for your input!


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## Legendary Sidekick (Jan 29, 2015)

@Devor, GRRM calls it "milk of the poppy."

@Chesterama, I think opium is fine. If a made up name, what GRRM does also works. That is, when he takes a few common words and makes compound nouns that require no explanation. In fact, I kind of envy his ability to make compound nouns that work so well, I catch myself wondering if they were common phrases 500-1000 years ago.

("Night soil… so that's what they called it. _Blimey! I stepped right into that night soil, didn't I? Fetch me the squire! Boy! Polish my grieves or replace them with a dead man's or remove this night soil with your tongue if you must needs!_ Oh yeah, a knight would totally say that.")

I think a "street name" is harder to pull off, though "Nuke" worked in RoboCop 2. Nuke was important to the story, so maybe that justifies the street name.

What would NOT work (for me anyway) is "trippium," "gigglijuana," or "crystal death." That's me trying to come up with drug-related names that have the same WTF factor as "unobtanium." [Cinema Sins - WARNING: semi-bleeped F-bomb]


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## Tom (Jan 29, 2015)

Legendary Sidekick said:


> @Devor, GRRM calls it "milk of the poppy."[/URL][/SIZE]



I read a Medieval fantasy book that called it "poppy tincture".


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## psychotick (Jan 29, 2015)

Hi,

It depends on your world build. I'd use opium if your world was Victorian era or later simply because that was when the drug started to come into its own. But prior to that I'd go for something more like milk of the poppy, essence of poppy etc. Also if you have apothecaries, what do they refer to their other compounds as? Tinctures? Balms? Salves? Potions? Whatever names they call them by, your poppy potion needs to fit with.

Cheers, Greg.


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## cupiscent (Jan 29, 2015)

Reading the wikipedia page on opium is basically 960 kinds of inspiration, so thanks for prompting that. 

Great things on that page:
 - "poppy tears". That is the most amazing name ever, frankly.
 - "Opium has been actively collected since prehistoric times"
 - "The Ebers Papyrus, circa 1500 BCE, describes a way to "stop a crying child" using grains of the poppy plant strained to a pulp." I find this one particularly interesting because my husband's Italian-peasant-village of familial origin used to do this for the same purpose, and I wonder if that isn't a Romanesque hangover.
 - There's always "laudanum", though that perhaps has even more real-world connotations than opium

Also, I'll note that Jennifer Fallon had opium extensively in her Second Sons trilogy - at least, I remember it being opium, but I don't remember what she called it. I think if you link side-effects, addiction and poppies, people are going to get the idea.


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## Jabrosky (Jan 29, 2015)

This sounds like a classic rabbit/smeerp issue to me. In any setting where it's present, opium would work just fine in most contexts. It's the informal slang terms that could potentially jar readers' immersion. For some reason we identify slang and profanity with specific time periods, especially modern times, while treating more "formal" language as universally appropriate across settings.

Come to think of it, why _is_ that the case? It might make sense for settings where everyone speaks a specific form of English that we could still understand, but what about those settings where no one would speak English at all? I'll wager that Cleopatra never spoke any kind of English, so any kind of hip-hop dialect would technically be just as accurate a "dubbing" for her dialogue with "proper" British aristocrat-speak. Similarly, whatever language Legolas would have spoken in the "real" Middle Earth, it could just as fairly be translated into an American Southern drawl as any other form of English. In cases like those, should it really matter just how our characters speak English?


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## Svrtnsse (Jan 29, 2015)

I'm not entirely sure it's a smeerp issue after all. Originally, I figured it was and that if you didn't rename everything else, there wouldn't be a need to rename this either.

I'm no longer certain that is the case. We don't rename common things like oaks and rabbits or houses because readers already have a good understanding of what these things are, how they look, and how they function. This is good because it saves us a whole lot of work when describing things - especially in cases where these things aren't of any major significance to the story.

In this specific case, the name opium carries with it quite a load of associative luggage. When someone reads the word, it will trigger these associations for them, whether they are correct or not. They will (may) think of opium dens and the society/setting/world/life/individuals they associate with such places. I'm sure you have a pretty good feeling for how an opium den looks, even if you've never actually been to one.

If your setting conforms to these common associations, then it's almost certainly fine to use the word, but if it doesn't, you should probably change it.


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## Queshire (Jan 29, 2015)

Well on that, I'm worried that the era of the opium dens &  wars was so long ago that it's not what most modern readers would automatically associate with Opium, that for them it would just fall in the same category of "illegal drugs" that heroin and cocaine fall in.


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## Svrtnsse (Jan 29, 2015)

The era of opium dens and opium wars was over long before I was born. At least I think so. I don't actually know and it doesn't really matter as all my experience of such things come from books I've read and movies I've seen. 

I think you'll have to go with your gut feeling. Do you expect your readers to have the same associations you do, or do you think they make different connections when they read a word?

I think that if you assume your readers think and associate in roughly the same way you do, you will have a more consistent voice. If you assume your readers think in different ways, you may end up convoluting your language, or add descriptions that aren't necessary in order to explain something that may not need explaining.

This applies in the general case as well, not just in the case of the word opium.


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## Chessie (Jan 29, 2015)

Opium dens were a thing in the Americas starting in the 18th century. My understanding is that at the beginning of the 20th century, they were already getting shut down. There are some existing dens in (limited) Asian countries but they are illegal for the most part. I'm generalizing here. 

Using opium by its proper name comes along with describing its effects, how and where its smoked. I wouldn't just say "opium den" and expect readers to know what that is. There's a whole world that goes along with it...and several modern accounts of what its like to actually use the drug in the traditional Chinese way.

Also, the setting is similar to the American west. That drug was big in that time period. So it does fit.


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## Queshire (Jan 29, 2015)

Svrtnsse said:


> The era of opium dens and opium wars was over long before I was born. At least I think so. I don't actually know and it doesn't really matter as all my experience of such things come from books I've read and movies I've seen.
> 
> I think you'll have to go with your gut feeling. Do you expect your readers to have the same associations you do, or do you think they make different connections when they read a word?
> 
> ...



You probably have a point, but considering that just last week I met someone who didn't know what Yggdrasil was I have little faith in the common man. Le~sigh~~~ =_=

Of course I'm sure that some scientist could rattle off some fact that would just completely fly over my head, but that scientist's life lead them to obtaining different knowledge than a writer and the writer shouldn't be expected to know everything the scientist talks about. Similarly a reader shouldn't be required to know everything a writer knows. 

Of course then it could be argued that in that case a writer has a duty to try to expand their reader's horizon, and if that's the route you're going for then all the more power to you, but that's not really what I'm doing. 

Sorry for the off topic armchair philosophy folks. I'm done now.


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## Terry Greer (Jan 30, 2015)

Using a name that is based on latin or greek or from a culture that doesn't exist in your fantasy world can make it jar completely and make it awkward.

For example Cocaine is made up of Coca (from the local cultural name for the plant) and  'ine' (from 19th century english medical suffix). So using that name would be pretty messed up for a fantasy setting and for me would break immersion.

Another example might be Tobacco - which is from an Arawakan language of the Caribbean and is supposed to mean 'a roll of tobacco plant leaves'. It comes to us via Spanish. 

I would argue therefore that a name such as Tobacco (taken purely from a local name) is less of a problem in usage within a fantasy novel than Cocaine (which has local and english cultural/scientific parts). Though really there's not much to separate the two.

I 'm perfectly happy that a plant exists in a fantasy setting with properties/compounds similar to (or even vastly superior to) a plant known to occur on earth, and that a drug can be made from this - but I expect the drug name and origin to be integrated into the fantasy world so that it doesn't feel 'grafted on' - and that includes creating any common names for that drug if required.


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## 2WayParadox (Jan 30, 2015)

If I were to incorporate a drug into my story, it wouldn't be opium. Opium doesn't lead to anything even remotely positive. When opium's used, the drug addict seems to be sleeping. Not very exciting. There is an exceptionally strong drive to get a next fix though, since withdrawal kicks hard. Also, the damage related to opioid use is spread throughout the body. Cities ravaged by opium in the past have fallen into chaos. The whole Opium wars between Britain and China were about these negative effects.

I'd rather stick to psychedelics. Does any of you have any idea about how you could have your character make a psychedelic that would make even an elephant think he's in heaven? A way that feels plausible.

I guess it depends on the angle your story is going for. If the societal effects are key, then there are few drugs better than heroin/opium. But if you look at the character level, there are other drugs with much more interesting effects, that still have powerful withdrawal symptoms.


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## cupiscent (Jan 30, 2015)

Mmm, but then you do start getting into the "what is English, anyway?" problem - can you have "cow" and "beef" in the same novel, when one is of German origin and the other French? It can often be more useful to just think of your novel as the translation of the story into the language that your reader understands. In which case, just use the commonly understood term.

On the other hand, one element (among many) that made me put down a fantasy novel unfinished recently was the characters in what was otherwise a very ancient-Rome-derived world saying "ok". Straw that broke the camel's back. So maybe the bottom line here is: you cannot account for every reader's language idiosyncrasies. Just do something that makes sense for you - but look into the linguistic and historic origins enough to know that it makes sense! (For instance, Brian McClellan was saying just the other day that he wanted a character to carry a Bowie knife... but he couldn't, because that's named after a historic figure who didn't exist in his world.)


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## 2WayParadox (Jan 30, 2015)

When it comes to these kinds of things, I like it when it's limited in scope. I remember one case were coffee was called caf. Or instead of yes, they would say Tes. I think changing as few as a dozen words that are used with moderate frequency will be enough to give the impression of difference. I think it's more about choosing which words to adjust, then it is about changing any in the first place.


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## Svrtnsse (Jan 30, 2015)

I remember reading something where coffee was referred to as caf, but I don't remember what it actually was. It didn't work for me though as the word's too similar to the real world word for it, and it felt like they'd made the change just for sake of it.

In a different story (The Deeds of Paksenarrion), a brew called Sib fills a function similar to what coffee does, but it's never described exactly what it is or how it looks. It's just part of the camp rituals and in my meaning it works a lot better.

It's probably one of these things that varies from reader to reader and book to book though. I still think that even after considering all of the advice given here (and in other places), you'll have to be honest with yourself and stick to your gut feeling.


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## Chessie (Jan 30, 2015)

2WayParadox said:


> If I were to incorporate a drug into my story, it wouldn't be opium. Opium doesn't lead to anything even remotely positive. When opium's used, the drug addict seems to be sleeping. Not very exciting.


That's precisely what I'm going for. Conflict, not excitement.


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## Laurence (Jan 30, 2015)

Base it on meth and you've already got 5 series of converted Breaking Bad material to use hue


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## Snowpoint (Jan 30, 2015)

Opium is made of poppy, so call the drug *Pop*. 

Just don't Hop on Pop!


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## psychotick (Jan 31, 2015)

Hi 2Way,

Yes. In Wildling I had a psychedelic drug mentioned repeatedly which I had my character use as a weapon. I called it white wrath and made it a mushroom, which when you heated released spores. It essentially was the essence of a bad trip.

Cheers, Greg.


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## 2WayParadox (Jan 31, 2015)

I've been playing with that idea as well, but from a more insidious angle.


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## WeilderOfTheMonkeyBlade (Jan 31, 2015)

Quite a few of my characters, mercenaries, get high off "Leaf" which is pretty obviously weed. I don't go around calling it weed or grass or cheese or whatever, or cannabis, and neither do they smoke fat spliffs or anything, but I do use terms like High and Stoned quite a bit.


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## psychotick (Jan 31, 2015)

Hi Wielder,

Have you heard of Qat / Kat? Its a chewed leaf that many Africans (Sommalia I think) use which leads to a euphoria. And its been a problem for soldiers as loads of them have been stoned while carrying weapons.

Cheers, Greg.


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## Jabrosky (Jan 31, 2015)

Way back in my junior high years, I wrote a story where a herd of Triceratops were munching on marijuana plants in the jungles of Cretaceous North America. This had the effect of lowering their guard, making it easier for the T. Rex MC to sneak up and ambush them. The concept of Triceratops eating marijuana got a chuckle from my readers, but then I learned that cannabis as we know it comes from the chilly highlands of Central Asia, not the American tropics. In retrospect, coca would have worked better for my purposes since it is a tropical New World plant.

I didn't use any slang or in-world jargon for my story though. I simply called the plants marijuana.


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## 2WayParadox (Jan 31, 2015)

Dinosaurs aren't notorious for their slang, so I think you made the right call there.


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