# The minds of immortals



## Svrtnsse (Sep 30, 2013)

Last night, in the chat, the topic of immortality came up. It was an interesting discussion, but the hour got late and I had to leave.

Personally I firmly believe that immortality fundamentally changes how you view life. I made the comment that I wouldn't want to write from the POV of a 12,000 year old immortal as such a being would be too alien to me (they'd also be an extremely powerful magic wielder). I'm fine with having such beings i my setting, but I wouldn't put them as main characters or even in minor roles.

However, mere mortal humans can, through simply wielding magic, prolong their lives indefinitely. Magic isn't all that common though and only about one in a hundred would be able to extend their lifespan in this way. Even then, I believe that the human mind isn't capable of handling such a long life and that most magic wielders would sooner or later expire in some way, either on their own initiative or that of others.

Is this something you've put any thought into and if so what are your thoughts on it?
Do you have immortals in your WIP and how do they view themselves and their lives compared to mortals and their lives?


----------



## Svrtnsse (Sep 30, 2013)

Links to relevant articles for my WIP:

Elves and immortality:
Elves - Odd Lands Wiki

The healing effects of magic on mortals:
Blog - The rejuvenating effects of magic - Odd Lands Wiki


----------



## CupofJoe (Sep 30, 2013)

I've tried to use immortals in some [older] work but I didn't make them invulnerable. They were more the self-healing and restorative type than the magic wielding type [though there was some innate magic]. I gave them a long childhood - 100+ years although they would appear full grown after about 10. As children they would start off acting crazy and wild, taking extreme risks and having adventure, knowing that they would heal and survive. After a while when they had seen friends and lovers die they would begin to realised that they had the possibility for an unending life and they knew they could be killed - if the death was traumatic enough. 
In the end it made them kind of craven or suicidal. Some went crazy taking more and more extreme risks, seeing how far they could push their luck, while others cowered from the possibility of death and began to isolate themselves from any possible risk. Death became the centre of both group's world-view. It was this that eventually they became too chaotic to write. I just couldn't make it a viable society [in my own head]. I remember that I did decide that having children was a very great decision for them to limit their numbers...


----------



## Svrtnsse (Sep 30, 2013)

This is sort of what I meant. The humans get a bit power-mad from their immortality, then they get a bit weird about it when their friends and family and other loved ones start to die around them. On top of that the world around them is continuously changing making them feel detached and apart from the world they knew when they grew up.
They'd be alone and lonely with perhaps no one at all to talk to who could relate to them.

I believe the elves would have a different and easier time dealing with their long lives. They're brought up knowing they're immortal and that their friends and family are too. Immortality is a part of their culture in a different way than it is to humans.


----------



## CupofJoe (Sep 30, 2013)

I never saw my immortals as power-mad.. perhaps power-maddened.
I did work out that more than a few of them did become powerful mainly from financial power [I had them control a lot of the banking and trading - they didn't mind making loans and deals over 25, 50, 100+ years because they WOULD be around to collect...].
With elves [and I've never written immoral elves so I'm kind of going back to Papa T here], I think I'd see it more like that Elves can't relate to our limited [human] lifespans, just like we can't really comprehend the [year limited] life of a dog let alone the day or two allotted to a mayfly.
David [and Leigh] Eddings I think did a good job with Belgarath and Polgara in keeping them human [while being earth shatteringly powerful] by having them live for thousands of years for a definite purpose.
I think that would have to be it... if you were able to live eternally [but most people you knew couldn't] you would have to have or find a reason to keep going... I can see boredom being the real worst-thing-ever...
I can see this could become an "is Time the same for everyone and everything" philosophical debate...


----------



## Svrtnsse (Sep 30, 2013)

Definitely a philosophical debate. 

I've also thought a bit about the financial power of immortals. If nothing else you'll have a very long time to amass your fortune. I also imagine that the elves will play important, but probably hidden, roles in international politics. They'll probably avoid getting directly involved in the affairs of individual nations, but when it comes to things like large scale environmental issues they may be more active.

With the tension between elves and other races in my setting I believe younger elves are likely to have a hostile/unfriendly disposition towards humans. They'll think that since they're more powerful they're better and that they should be the ones making the rules. With age they'll generally come to realize that they're better off leaving the humans alone and not meddle too much in their affairs. It's still a source of conflict though.


----------



## wordwalker (Sep 30, 2013)

One of the later Drizzt books (wish I could remember which) had a B-story of Drizzt being befriended by a fellow elf, and learning "the elven attitude" to immortality: flexibility, and an almost childlike joy in how many new things keep coming up if you let go the old ones. Sounded nice to me, especially if you're a species whose brain really is wired for it.


----------



## GeekDavid (Sep 30, 2013)

David Eddings wrote about several sorcerers who were thousands of years old... I think the oldest was about 7,000. He didn't have their longevity changing their personalities much, just adding the wisdom of lots of experience.

I think it depends on the sort of person you start with... if you give a corrupt person immortality or near-immortality, you're going to find they become a lot more corrupt. On the other hand, if you give it to a trustworthy person, it's less likely to corrupt their basic nature.


----------



## Edankyn (Sep 30, 2013)

wordwalker said:


> One of the later Drizzt books (wish I could remember which) had a B-story of Drizzt being befriended by a fellow elf, and learning "the elven attitude" to immortality


That would be _The Lone Drow_ and the elf he is speaking to is Innovindel. 



			
				Svrtnsse said:
			
		

> I'm fine with having such beings i my setting, but I wouldn't put them as main characters or even in minor roles.


 This is an interesting perspective. I happen to feel exactly the opposite. I love trying to make these sort of alien characters somewhat relatable, and they feature prominently in my WIP. However I don't like the idea of magicians being able to extend their life even relatively easily. For me magic is all about the costs associated with it. To extend one person's life requires the death of another or some similarly large expense. For me that's what makes those characters so intriguing. They are somehow able to justify sacrificing others in order to sustain themselves. One group of characters in my story have lived for around thirteen hundred years and in order to do so have killed upwards of twenty people each just to preserve their own life force. This sort of callousness allows me to expand them as characters and also explore the depths of what magic will allow (being that they place such little value on the life of others). In the end I think that these characters share a remarkable resemblance to some large scale corporations which is an interesting dynamic to have and can really help build tension in the story.


----------



## Ireth (Sep 30, 2013)

I deal with immortal characters a fair bit in my stories, what with writing vampires, elves and Fae. I haven't really gone into how they deal with immortality, except for the Fae -- they get bored easily, and typically pass the time by toying with mortals, with varying levels of cruelty. Some are only mischief-makers, while others torment their human toys and even kill them. Needless to say, they're not very well-liked among humans as a rule, with a few exceptions. A few Fae have befriended mortals rather than tried to harm them.


----------



## Queshire (Sep 30, 2013)

A manga that seems to revolve around various immortals has recently started, it only have a couple chapters out at the moment, but they're really good. It's called UQ Holder! UQ Holder! Manga - Read UQ Holder! Online at MangaHere.com and is a sequel to Negima.

Furthermore, one of my friends has recently started a role playing site where one of the major character types are particularly good or evil people who getting chosen by one of two god-like beings. They're given immortality and cool supernatural powers: After the Eclipse

For my immortal character on the role play site I linked, while the site and character are still pretty new at the moment and still developing, I intend to give her a viewpoint that is rather, hm.... is insular the right word? She primarily concerns herself with other immortals or other groups with powers, whether they're the mutants or the guys with the alien power armor. She'll help out regular humans if she comes across one in trouble, but she doesn't go out of her way to deal with threats to regular humans like she would with threats to immortals.


----------



## Lord Ben (Sep 30, 2013)

I had a story idea dealing with this actually?  Ever watch Sopranos with the Mobster seeking Psychiatric help to deal with issues?  Basically that type of story set in the real world where people aren't aware of immortals.   The MC is maybe a student who writes a research paper on dealing with immortality in school or something similar and it catches the eye of an underground connection of immortals of the various genres and he gets sucked into their world and politics and explores the different ways different people cope with immortality, learns their stories, etc.

I don't have much experience with metal healthcare so I doubt I could write with any authority on the subject but it's one of those things I would think would be ripe for an audience.   Serialized novellas or something with each immortal patient being it's own story while part of the characters story.

I think it would cause a lot of issues but eventually you'd get over them because you'd learn to adapt.  I also think you'd go through phases where you might become super wealthy but then give it all away and start over because you think it might be an interesting challenge and you're not going anywhere, etc.  This is assuming a world of mortals and immortality is unique.   People are people though and the differences are going to be as varied as anyone has it.  Some people react to struggles in life and overcome them, some are overcome by them.


----------



## Svrtnsse (Sep 30, 2013)

One of the things mentioned in this thread, and which I've thought about myself as well is that dealing with immortality would be easier if you had a purpose - a reason to go on.

There are great purposes and great tasks that would take millennia to complete, but not everyone is suited for that kind of thing. Sometimes you just need a hobby - something to pass the time. I've mused a bit on this as well and thought of a few things an immortal with nothing better to do could occupy themselves with the while away the centuries (other suggestions are welcome).

 - Breeding/genetic engineering.
Similar to humans breeding race horses or hunting/fighting dogs elves may be interested in breeding creatures. With being immortal the elves will have the time to cultivate animals and plants into whatever their vision desires. Depending on their skill/affinity for healing magic they may be able to magic to assist in this process. (Blog - Art - Odd Lands Wiki - Evolution and Intelligent Design - Odd Lands Wiki - Mossparden - Odd Lands Wiki)

 - Human cultivation
Similar to breeding but applied to humans. The elf attaches themselves to a human family and guide/assist them in improving their social standing throughout the generations. The higher a family can raise and the longer it can maintain its position there, the more respect the supporting elf would get from their peers. (no article written on this topic yet).


----------



## Lord Ben (Sep 30, 2013)

If at any point in your immortality 1000+ years ago or more you bred with mortals you're going to count nearly everyone on earth as a descendant.

On average, 40 generations from "now" (800-1200 years) you'll have about a trillion descendants.  If "now" happened a thousand years ago and you're still around to see it then you'll be related to nearly everyone and through multiple ways for most of them.

http://blog.eogn.com/eastmans_onlin...ended-from-charlemagne-and-other-royalty.html


----------



## GeekDavid (Sep 30, 2013)

Svrtnsse said:


> One of the things mentioned in this thread, and which I've thought about myself as well is that dealing with immortality would be easier if you had a purpose - a reason to go on.



Earlier I mentioned David Eddings' 7,000 year old sorcerer, and that's what kept him and his nearly immortal fellow sorcerers going... the task that they had to complete. If memory serves, at one point in the story the sorcerer explains to his young protege that everyone lives until all their tasks are done; it's just that his has taken a very long time.


----------



## Svrtnsse (Sep 30, 2013)

Lord Ben said:


> If at any point in your immortality 1000+ years ago or more you bred with mortals you're going to count nearly everyone on earth as a descendant.[/url]



This is another interesting point: do mortals and immortals interbreed. In my setting they don't mix at all and someone who has a relationship with someone of another race is viewed a bit like someone who'd have a relationship with their dog or cat or pet turtle or whatever - like a complete and raging pervert.

I went into details about the birthrates of elves as I still want to keep the elven population relatively small. I got a lot of good feeback on that in another thread, but I can't recall its name at the moment. As I dimly recall elven women would be fertile between the age of 200 and 800 years or so. The majority of them would not become pregnant more than once and of those who did, most would only have one child. I also had some thoughts about whether the majority of elven women would opt out of pregnancy completely but I don't remember what I decided on that.


----------



## Ireth (Sep 30, 2013)

Svrtnsse said:


> This is another interesting point: do mortals and immortals interbreed.



It's quite common for Fae to interbreed with humans. Some stay with their human lovers in the Earthworld for a while (and very often just up and leave when they find another lover, or when the child grows toward puberty), while some take their lovers back to Faerie with them, with the result that the humans eventually turn part-Fae themselves, making mortality not a problem anymore. Also very common is Fae taking human babies or young children as their own, and often swapping their own frail, sickly children for the human parents to raise.


----------



## Edankyn (Sep 30, 2013)

Lord Ben said:


> If at any point in your immortality 1000+ years ago or more you bred with mortals you're going to count nearly everyone on earth as a descendant. On average, 40 generations from "now" (800-1200 years) you'll have about a trillion descendants.


 Not necessarily. As was mentioned in the link you posted, there is evidence that suggests that there have never been a trillion people on earth, so there is obviously a ton of crossover between the lines when you start going back that many generations. Additionally, the article points out that _if you are of European descent_ you can most likely trace your lineage back to Charlemagne. What about those of Native American, Latino or Asian decent. A sizable portion of the earth's total population today fits into those categories which are divided primarily by geography. In your story you could easily create geographic obstacles that would separate immortal progeny from the rest of the population. Another possibility would be that of the Egyptian Pharaohs. It is fairly well documented that they resorted to inbreeding to keep the blood lines "pure". It's conceivable that an immortal would have a similar desire and could manage his descendants to ensure a similar outcome.

Now all of this is not to say that you don't bring up a valid point because I really do think it's important to think of long term consequences in world building, but there is a large amount of freedom that author's have to control these outcomes while remaining consistent with examples from the real world--not even to mention the plethora of conceivable explanations that an author could invent to remain consistent within their own fantasy setting.


----------



## Lord Ben (Sep 30, 2013)

Yeah, more avenues to avoid it but if one of your millions of kids heads off to another region of the world within a score of generations there is billion of them in that new region of the world too.   It's the basic concept of the Most Common Recent Ancestor.  It's basically that either everyone will be a descendent of yours or nobody will.  No middle ground with enough time having passed.   Julius Caesar had two kids, one was killed early on and the other died in childbirth.  So even 80 generations later he doesn't have a trillions and trillions of ancestors.. he has zero (or perhaps trillions again if you count any potential illegitimate children).

From the perspective of a Roman Legionnaire with kids who finds himself an accidental immortal his progeny might spread over a good chunk of the known world, especially within a couple generations if the empire is alive..   1300 years later it's a virtual certainty one of his "trillion" ancestors (with each person counting multiple times) is going to be heading over to China with Marco Polo, to the New World with an explorer, moving on south through Africa one village at a time, etc.   A couple thousand years is a LONG time for even one person of countless millions to move it's way into a new region, etc.  

Lets say you're telling a story in which some immortal can still fall in love and have children with a mortal.  How does he feel about marrying his great*13 granddaughter?   How much does a child born between their union matter to him when nearly the entire known world is his grandchild to some small degree or another.   Perhaps genealogy is a fun game of his to determine how they're related.   In a world of magic it's as simple as "cast determine family tree connection" spell.

Genealogy and math are fun subjects to me, when I see a story about time travel into the distant future or ancient past it's amusing to think they're probably related to nearly everyone in the story.   Obviously no familial resemblance but the connection persists anyway.

I couldn't recite it, but I know someone who I'm 3rd cousins 4th removed with and he has a chart somewhere showing how the line traces up to Charlemagne.  So kneel at my royal feet you unworthy peasants!


----------



## Svrtnsse (Sep 30, 2013)

Imagine having to come with verses for all the Christmas gifts for that many grandchildren.


----------



## Pemry Janes (Oct 1, 2013)

Another issue immortals will have is memory. When you get to be a few hundred, perhaps even a thousand years old, can you still function if you remember everything well?

If their memory functions like ours does, than not only will they forget things they will misremember them. Another source of conflict if there is a group of immortals.


----------



## psychotick (Oct 1, 2013)

Hi,

I started a sci fi book with an immortal main character in it and came up with a few bits and pieces about them. First my guy was only 700, which made him a baby among his kind, and as such more of a rebel. The others lived in hiding terrified of being discovered and then potentially experimented upon until the secrets of their flesh were known.

Likewise they were detached from normal life, marriages and such things not engaged in. It's hard to risk giving your heart to someone you know will die and that you will then have to live on without. Similarly friendships always have to be tinged with sadness as the immortal knows they can't last. Everyone around them is impermanent.

I also gave them the trait of cowardice. My thinking was that the braver dare devil immortals woul have killed themselves off, while the timid endured. Also if they didn't heal right it would be a nightmare to go through eternity with say a broken back so they'd soon learn to say no to risk. But slowly, bit by bit, the fear of discovery grew within them until that fear became the focus of their lives. I left the whole godlike ego thing out because my thought was that even though they were immortal they still lived among mortals, and that would keep them somewhat grounded. Detached by necessity but not megalomaniacal.

One other thing to consider. Many of these guys have been around for millennia. So they are going to look somewhat out of place. Eyes that have seen too much. Ethnicities which are no longer common. Body types which through better diet etc, people have moved beyond. I mean Europeans have grown heading for a foot in height in the last thousand years. So these guys assuming they didn't get a proper diet as a kid might well be short and show the signs of deficiency diseases - eg rickets and bow legs. Of course it depends how you envision them.

Cheers, Greg.


----------



## shangrila (Oct 2, 2013)

The main thing I've always thought of in regards to immortals basically comes back to the theory of relativity. If they've been alive for thousands of years than time will seem to move faster, same as it seems to for us mere mortals. For example, when you're a kid in school a year can last a LONG time, but when you hit middle age they seem to go by a LOT quicker.

I agree about memory as well. I'm sure some things would stick out, but the idea that someone that old can remember random stuff that a normal person couldn't always takes me out of the story. I mean, honestly, I can't remember what I had for lunch yesterday, but sometimes a dozen times my age remembers the taste of fish when they were young? No.


----------



## wordwalker (Oct 2, 2013)

One of the hardest things about writing an immortal is that they should be more experienced than anyone less aged-- meaning, in some ways, they're smarter than any mortal (or author). But they would have weaknesses: being out of step with anything that's evolved quickly when they weren't watching it, maybe gaps in their memory, and a tendency to fall back on plans that have worked in the past.

(It almost explains Klaus on _The Vampire Diaries_, who took to solving every problem with taking a hero's friend hostage.)

The trick might be drawing the line between what are human truths or strategic viewpoints, that an immortal would learn to see in any situation better than anyone, and what would be the specifics that he might have to keep a conscious eye on.

Or, you have Fred Saberhagen's New Dracula searching a modern city and realizing he knew nothing about what hotel might be fancy enough for his enemy to use... but he knew a little about judging the cars that drove up to them.


----------



## Armoured Rat (Oct 17, 2013)

I'm of the general belief that any sufficiently immortal being would be so far beyond anything a mortal could comprehend, that they're best left to the realm of plot device rather than character. 

Also, hello, I'm new!


----------



## GeekDavid (Oct 17, 2013)

Armoured Rat said:


> I'm of the general belief that any sufficiently immortal being would be so far beyond anything a mortal could comprehend, that they're best left to the realm of plot device rather than character.
> 
> Also, hello, I'm new!



Welcome, Rat! Grab a chair and watch out for the forum cats.


----------



## wordwalker (Oct 17, 2013)

Armoured Rat said:


> I'm of the general belief that any sufficiently immortal being would be so far beyond anything a mortal could comprehend, that they're best left to the realm of plot device rather than character.



Been reading the _Amber_ Roleplaying game? That's how it advises handling the characters' immortal family, including "I cast Perfect Invisibility and stab the Great Swordmaster in the back!" "He blocks it. He _assumed_ someone would backstab right about then."

(Okay, that's a bit much. But Benedict _is_ that good.)


----------



## TrustMeImRudy (Oct 18, 2013)

> The main thing I've always thought of in regards to immortals basically comes back to the theory of relativity. If they've been alive for thousands of years than time will seem to move faster, same as it seems to for us mere mortals. For example, when you're a kid in school a year can last a LONG time, but when you hit middle age they seem to go by a LOT quicker.



This is my belief. I generally write immortals in a negative light. Time loses meaning as it speeds up over the ages, eventually whole centuries would pass them in the blink of an eye unless they concentrate. A good hobby was mentioned earlier, a purpose, but after a long enough time spent fighting for something, eventually the goal would fall behind, and they would become dedicated to the actions and not the ideal, the pattern they developed. This was best summed up in a Green Lantern comic I read as a kid, where somebody asks one of the Guardians of the Universe why they first took the oath to protect the universe. After hesitating the Guardian - who as a group have been lately making heartless decisions for 'the greater good' - answers "I don't remember."

Then, there is the idea of why they sought immortality to begin with [assuming they werent born into it]. If it was a fear of death, I dont think that fear would ever leave them, because immortality, as I define it anyways, is age and disease immune plus good healing, but death by violence is possible. So they would become paranoid, and ever more dangerous.

This pretty much covers it, and has examples from fiction. But be warned, TvTropes Will Ruin Your Life.


----------



## SomethingToPonder (Oct 24, 2013)

The one thing I would say to remember would be the fact that they can have experiences and learn from them, so they would no doubtedly have that "wise old man" sense around them. But imagine you had lived since medeavil times, You would not be superior to me in knowledge, well not due to your age anyway. Because you would have only been able to learn so much as human society knew at the time, every few hundred years or so you would have to re-learn everything. Once you learned about the earth being flat, and the majority of people who believed it died off, you would have to learn about it being round for instance.

You can only learn as much as society knows at the time. Just because a person has been around for thousands of years would not mean he was some fountain of knowledge. 
Though he would be a genius in reading human behaviour and "street smarts" im sure.


----------



## Addison (Oct 25, 2013)

The history of my world greatly involves an immortal. What I greatly considered-and what became a character/plot point-was his inability to have a life-long relationship. He'd out live the woman he loves, all of his friends will die and he'll keep feeling the pain of loss forever. I worry more about the character's heart than the head.


----------



## Quillstine (Nov 12, 2013)

I seem to be gravitating to all the older threads here. Oh well, what’s a bit salt in an old wound between friends. We are friends right?!
Immortality to me is a hard concept to deal with until you get into the very specifics of how your particular immortality is being written. 
Are we dealing with people who are truly immortal, nothing can harm them? Are they vulnerable but just don’t age? Is immortality something they are born or created with, is it obtained and is it a known option to obtain it? Etc… 
To me, the big shift with immortality is about fear. Madness and capability of the brain I don’t feel come into play, the brain is a muscle and forgets and remembers as it sees relevant. If you were a human and immortal (which I think is the concept of this thread? So you somehow became an unexpected immortal among a race of mortals), you’d remember as you do now and forget as you do now. You might remember big events from 50,000 years ago (say your one true love) and not remember what color draws you put on this morning. I read a statistic somewhere that if you brain was not capable of forgetting, it would aneurism from overload within 1 minute. So it’s in and out all the time, take away the degradation of age and what’s to say your brain would not stay as virile as it is over the course of your immortal life.
Motivation, which has come up here, is the big issue. I don’t think you would necessarily become power ridden if you were immortal. Throw guilt, concern and morality to the wind. If I were to kill a man, my guilt would not be driven by my mortality but his.  Why would that change if I lived forever? If anything I would just feel sad and lonely, and only on account of not really being able to relate to anyone, assuming of course I was the only immortal creature. If you go around killing people, fair chance is you wanted to do it before you become immortal and just no longer fear being killed for it! Not that immortality made you no longer care for life so you started slashing.
 I never use total immortality or invincibility as a rule, because the fear of death and pain is too valuable a motivator to remove from a character. Take away death, and the hero would just run into the bad situation without a whim of fear. The Antagonist was simply being unstoppable and do all his evil doings…..  Where is the fun in that? If there is an omnipotent being, they are exactly that! There immortality is part of what they are; things are seen as a balance. They are a step removed from humanity and tend to be more a guide and appear generally emotionless. 
If a human has become immortal, he is never completely so and he still has a burning reason to “live”. There is still a void driving him in the story. I am not saying you would have no motivation if you were immortal, I see there are always things to learn and do. Things will always change, immortal or not you’ll never run out of emotions to experience! I just feel a lack of motivation compelling enough to propel a plot! Nothing would stop you from simply going and achieving whatever challenge the story presented!


----------



## TrustMeImRudy (Nov 17, 2013)

> I worry more about the character's heart than the head.



To me they are tied together. His heart, his emotions, color the way he thinks about things. His shifting thoughts produce different emotions. Time will lengthen and the immortal will see lives as mere minutes, and what does that really mean? Killing someone is wrong, thats a whole life wasted, but what if its only a few minutes wasted? Thats what it seems like to him. Im not saying it will make the immortal a slasher killer, just that the sanctity of life will begin to fade away. It isnt raging frothing mad murderiness...its apathy.



> There is still a void driving him in the story. I am not saying you would have no motivation if you were immortal, I see there are always things to learn and do. Things will always change, immortal or not you’ll never run out of emotions to experience! I just feel a lack of motivation compelling enough to propel a plot! Nothing would stop you from simply going and achieving whatever challenge the story presented!



But why do we do things? Without a motivation, learning things feels pointless. I think almost everyone has experienced that, where doing something seems just utterly without point. It wont change anything. Nihilists take that to the next level and I feel most people burdened with immortality would become nihilists at some point. Everyone dies, no one stays with them, time is moving so fast, memory is fleeting, whats the point? We regulars have to survive, we have to leave something for our children so they can not only survive but thrive and be happy, because thats an impulse, to procreate. An immortal though, why procreate? I'm wondering if that impulse, which at its root is a species instinct, would remain? But anyways, my point is that motivation will fade. Like I said before, even if they find a purpose or a hobby enough failures or even enough successes will lead them to lose faith in their power to enact lasting change. If we do something that impacts the world for a hundred years, isnt that amazing? A grand achievement. If an immortal does that...oh _great _he managed to give earth a peaceful lunch.
So apathy. Thats my point. Gods, I would hate to be immortal.



> don’t think you would necessarily become power ridden if you were immortal. Throw guilt, concern and morality to the wind. If I were to kill a man, my guilt would not be driven by my mortality but his. Why would that change if I lived forever?



I wouldnt say power ridden, I think thats a possibility but not the main one. But guilt concern and morality would fade I think because our guilt in ending a life is tied to the fact that it relates to us. We kill that guy, it hurts because we see us in his eyes, that could be me dying there: thats why when you're mad at someone they say to look at it through their eyes. So if your immortal, what does it matter if a man loses a few years? His life is so small compared to yours, like those flies that live only a day compared to us. Sentience and sapience comes into it as well, but eventually they would start to think, what does it matter? That one life in the eteranl flow of time is a dustmote to the immortal.


----------



## Abbas-Al-Morim (Nov 17, 2013)

Isn't it statistically impossible to live thousands of years? Unless of course you're immune to disease and have an amazing constitution. I mean, it's highly probable that in the first thousand years of your life, you'll be hit by a bus, be in a car crash or maybe you'll slip on the bathroom floor and crack your skull. 

I don't get the whole thousand year old elven warrior thing. I mean no matter how good you are, if you're in combat situations throughout your entire life it's not going to be very long. If you're smart, skilled and lucky you might make it to retirement (at the ripe age of forty). But even if you stay just as quick and limber as a youth with the added experience of decades of battle, you'll still catch an arrow sometime. Magic users could of course protect them but in most setting magic is seen as dangerous. If you're constantly at risk of being possessed by demons who are infinitely more powerful and experienced than you (no matter how old you become) then statistically, you'll get caught sooner rather than later. 

Unless of course you use the actual definition of immortality (as opposed to the Fantasy one). In that case _nothing _ can kill you - which of course makes the story rather dull. It would take extraordinary writing to make an immortal character come to life (no pun intended).


----------



## TrustMeImRudy (Nov 17, 2013)

It's also statistically impossible for the universe to have come to exist, but luckily we think it did happen! 

My immortals are always recluses anyways.


----------



## Abbas-Al-Morim (Nov 17, 2013)

TrustMeImRudy said:


> It's also statistically impossible for the universe to have come to exist, but luckily we think it did happen!
> 
> My immortals are always recluses anyways.



Well yes, of course it's possible for a few creatures to survive for thousands of years but that doesn't explain the very common "_elf warrior societies_". I'm not saying it bothers me much, but it isn't realistic for so many people to survive for so long despite the enormous odds stacked against them.


----------



## TrustMeImRudy (Nov 18, 2013)

You're right of course. I have no come back except to say that the unlikely happens so often we have begun to call it likely anyways.


----------



## wordwalker (Nov 18, 2013)

Statistically impossible? Hmm.

Most "nigh-immortality" does include near immunity to disease and infection, and at least some ability to heal better over time. And a large share of battle casualties weren't instant kills, so the better an immortal was at protecting his head, throat, and other spots (say with big chunks of *armor*), the more likely he could keep fighting until he either won or went down with a "serious wound" that he lived through. Depending on his skill, the power, and whether anyone knew about what he was.

(_Highlander_ starts looking more and more accurate, at least in its basics. And, elves don't too have many of these "insurances," but I can see them knowing a lot about herbs and healings to raise the odds of a wounded elf getting his proper centuries of life. Might explain why they like negotiation, arrows, ambush, and magic tactics too: safety.)

Of course the real question is, why play that kind of Russian Roulette at all, especially when you have eternity to lose? And if you did, how long before your number was up anyway?

I guess it does come down to how your mind adapts to immortality. Cowardice or hermit plans make good sense, but the other side is, what are you living _for_? Do you become fascinated with finding new experiences and/or stubbornly figuring staying alive has become the goal in itself? Do you get involved with people or their causes, something that would always be fascinating but might get harder the more centuries you see people fall prey to the same weaknesses or just die out or (for cultures) change beyond what you're used to?

Or every so often, do you want to turn around and use all that self-preservation training to fight back? If people you care about (or your secret) are in danger, how fast do you jump in-- or, sometimes, just say "What the hell, I've gone fifty YEARS without taking risks and training myself to beat anyone if I still have to, if I don't get a bit of action now is there really a point to living another three hundred?" If real death is the only risk left for you, maybe sometimes (just for a skirmish or two, and in a cause you care about) you have to flirt with it to still feel alive.


----------



## Luís Santana (Jun 21, 2022)

Svrtnsse said:


> Is this something you've put any thought into and if so what are your thoughts on it?
> Do you have immortals in your WIP and how do they view themselves and their lives compared to mortals and their lives?



In my opinion, to be immortal (undying) or mortal (dying) in our _POV _condition (as human beings) is just about the same. 
_
All _my characters are immortals! 

They just _are_. 

NO MORTALS.


----------



## pmmg (Jun 21, 2022)

These threads are old. I am not sure anyone is still waiting for an answer on this.

I do like many of the old topics, but I am not sure we can help the OP anymore.


----------



## Hybris (Jul 4, 2022)

I recommand this novel Underland | Royal Road, about that. A bit dark, but if you want to really touch the subject, you don't really have the choice (and zorry, but you have to read almost all to really go into the immortality problems...). Scythe, by Neal Shusterman, also talks about that, but in a less fantasy-like way.


----------



## Hybris (Jul 4, 2022)

Whahh... the thread is old. Didn't see that


----------

