# Making a "living" as a writer



## Miskatonic (Nov 18, 2015)

Obviously in order to make a living you have to earn enough money to cover your expenses, and preferably have some leftover.

When you read someone talking about making a living as a writer are they using some sort of arbitrary standard to decide who is and who isn't officially "making it"?

I don't have to make six figures or even halfway to six figures, per year, to live a comfortable life.


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## Devor (Nov 18, 2015)

Crunching a few numbers, making $30,000 a year means selling about 700 copies a month of a book priced at $4.99 on Amazon.


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## Ryan_Crown (Nov 18, 2015)

My belief is that "making a living" as a writer means you are writing full time as your primary source of income. If you're still working a day job, even part-time, then I would say you're not yet "making a living" as a writer. Now as far as how much that income is, obviously that's going to depend on the writer. I know of writers who went into a fair amount of debt because they jumped both feet into full-time writing before they were earning enough to pay all their bills, and paid that debt off once they finally achieved enough of an income to have money left over once their bills were paid (not a path I'd want to take, mind you). So technically they were making a living as a writer, even if it wasn't a very good living.

Ultimately the question becomes -- how much do you feel you need to earn in a year to feel comfortable not having a day job to fall back on?


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## MineOwnKing (Nov 18, 2015)

I would be happy just to break even on editing fees. 

I think you have to love writing and have a knack for it to keep your sanity.

I've read blogs by traditionally published authors that itemize their profit and expenses and hold other jobs to boot.

Even with cash advances the reality is grim. 

Having a couple with a dual income is the practical way to go, but even then writing would probably have to take a backseat to a full time career in something else.

The income potential for blog articles and ghost writing is equally as dismal.

The lesson I have learned is that the real money is in editing, but editors get burnt out from their work and that leaves little energy for writing.

I'd rather write and be poor, because I love it. I already know what it's like to be burnt out from a mind numbing career.

Money isn't a good enough reason for me to write anymore. Very few things in life are permanent, friends and coworkers die, favors are forgotten, only words remain.


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## Miskatonic (Nov 19, 2015)

Ryan_Crown said:


> My belief is that "making a living" as a writer means you are writing full time as your primary source of income. If you're still working a day job, even part-time, then I would say you're not yet "making a living" as a writer. Now as far as how much that income is, obviously that's going to depend on the writer. I know of writers who went into a fair amount of debt because they jumped both feet into full-time writing before they were earning enough to pay all their bills, and paid that debt off once they finally achieved enough of an income to have money left over once their bills were paid (not a path I'd want to take, mind you). So technically they were making a living as a writer, even if it wasn't a very good living.
> 
> Ultimately the question becomes -- how much do you feel you need to earn in a year to feel comfortable not having a day job to fall back on?



If I could make 30k at a normal day job and supplement that with like $10-15k a year from writing I'd be happy as a pig in slop, so to speak. 

Of course full time writing that pays that much in total would be ideal but I'm not going to give up a regular job just based on how good I think my work is.


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## Miskatonic (Nov 19, 2015)

MineOwnKing said:


> I would be happy just to break even on editing fees.
> 
> I think you have to love writing and have a knack for it to keep your sanity.
> 
> ...



Doing tedious stuff like editing would actually fit my personality believe it or not.


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## MineOwnKing (Nov 19, 2015)

Miskatonic said:


> Doing tedious stuff like editing would actually fit my personality believe it or not.



If you are good at editing there is endless work for a freelance editor.

It might take some time to build up clients but it's definitely doable. 

Copy editors especially are in high demand.


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## Russ (Nov 19, 2015)

Miskatonic said:


> Obviously in order to make a living you have to earn enough money to cover your expenses, and preferably have some leftover.
> 
> When you read someone talking about making a living as a writer are they using some sort of arbitrary standard to decide who is and who isn't officially "making it"?
> 
> I don't have to make six figures or even halfway to six figures, per year, to live a comfortable life.



To me "making a living at writing" means that writing is your largest source of income, and that it supports your basic lifestyle.

How much you need to be satisfied is a very personal choice, although if you have modest financial needs and desires I bet that would be a pretty healthy place to be.


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## BWFoster78 (Nov 19, 2015)

> and supplement that with like $10-15k a year from writing I'd be happy as a pig in slop, so to speak.



That doesn't sound like an unreasonable expectation at all.  Nothing about writing is "easy," but if you have some clue what you're doing, I wouldn't think that level of "success" shouldn't be all the difficult to achieve. Of course, I'm not there yet.  I'll know more in a year or two


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## Devor (Nov 19, 2015)

$15,000 is still about 350 books a month at $4.99 on Amazon, by my rough math.

It does seem like anyone who's willing to put in the work should be able to get there, even if it means writing seven books and getting 50 sales a month per book.  Even if that's what it takes, it should be doable.


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## BWFoster78 (Nov 19, 2015)

Devor said:


> $15,000 is still about 350 books a month at $4.99 on Amazon, by my rough math.
> 
> It does seem like anyone who's willing to put in the work should be able to get there, even if it means writing seven books and getting 50 sales a month per book.  Even if that's what it takes, it should be doable.



I looked at your numbers and thought, "Wow, that sounds like a freaking lot of books. I only sold less than half that and thought I was doing well."

Then, I thought, "Wait a second, I made around the monthly equivalent of $15k last month. What gives?"

(Hope that didn't come out overly optimistic. That high total is the result of a bump you get for new releases; this months totals are looking at about 25% of last month and rapidly falling. To sustain that quantity, I'll need a lot more books on the market.)

I forgot about page reads. Doh!

If you're in KDP (exclusive to Amazon), your income from people borrowing your books can easily exceed your sales, especially if you write long books.


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## Devor (Nov 19, 2015)

BWFoster78 said:


> I looked at your numbers and thought, "Wow, that sounds like a freaking lot of books. I only sold less than half that and thought I was doing well."
> 
> Then, I thought, "Wait a second, I made around the monthly equivalent of $15k last month. What gives?"



Wait, how much did you sell/make last month?  (I guess I need to pay more attention to your other thread.)


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## BWFoster78 (Nov 19, 2015)

Devor said:


> Wait, how much did you sell/make last month?



Abuse of Power - 5 sales, 2398 pages read (best guess – 19 unique readers), 1090 free books downloaded = $21.00

Rise of the Mages – 151 sales, 141,281 pages read = $1235.19

Total: $1256.19



> (I guess I need to pay more attention to your other thread.)



Well, in your defense, the thread is getting kind of long ...


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## Devor (Nov 19, 2015)

BWFoster78 said:


> Abuse of Power - 5 sales, 2398 pages read (best guess – 19 unique readers), 1090 free books downloaded = $21.00
> 
> Rise of the Mages – 151 sales, 141,281 pages read = $1235.19
> 
> Total: $1256.19



Not too shabby!  You've just about matched your expenses?





> Well, in your defense, the thread is getting kind of long ...



I've been avoiding all of the long ones lately.


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## BWFoster78 (Nov 19, 2015)

Devor said:


> Not too shabby!  You've just about matched your expenses?



For the novel, I should be in the black before the end of this month.  Counting everything, I was about $900 down total on 11/1.  It's quite possible I'll be in the black for my career by the end of January.  I wasn't expecting to hit that mark until sometime in 2017.

Needless to say, I'm pleasantly surprised with my results, especially considering that some of my early reviews were a lot lower starred than I would have liked to have seen.


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## Miskatonic (Nov 20, 2015)

At this point supplementing my income would be more of a goal than quitting a day job and trying to have an income only based on writing books. 

I guess the strategy is to write as many books as you can while maintaining a standard of quality that readers expect.


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## BWFoster78 (Nov 20, 2015)

> I guess the strategy is to write as many books as you can while maintaining a standard of quality that readers expect.



And if you're planning on going indie, learning the business side of publishing.  Cover, pitch, and promotions are huge factors in your success.

Competent writing + competent business skills, imo, are more likely to lead to you having success than superior writing + subpar business skills.


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