# Philosophy as Magic



## Snowpoint (Aug 9, 2013)

My current WiP looks at magic as a philosophical pursuit rather than an academic one like most modern fantasy. There are 4 countries, each has their own magic, their own philosophy. Magic and culture are inseparable because each one affects the other. 

The trouble is that one of my magic systems doesn't have a strong philosophical bend to it. It was based on the idea of “The Magic Circle” an abstract idea rather than a world-view, or way of thinking. The are called Wardens, they use circles to cast barriers of solid, invisible force. Fire is must be present to cast spells. The fire is not consumed any faster by the magic, but it must be there. (This makes the reader aware of how long a Warden can maintain a barrier, rather than a vague fatigue limit. This also allows for sabotage of a barrier, if the fire is targeted from within.)

As you might guess, this system of magic was developed before the philosophical focus was added to the plot and theme. I need some way to make it fit the pattern established by the other Magics, which each adopted a philosophy already.

Binders believe all things in the universe are connected. Binding allows to like object to pull on each other like a magnet. This allows them to fix broken objects, find lost objects, track humans, restrain humans.

Tengu believe in training the body to train the mind. They practice martial arts, and other rigid disciplines to develop “Remote Viewing”, which is to view distance places psychically. This is changes the face of warfare because they can see marching armies months before they arrive and out maneuver them. (or get them while they sleep)

Oracles believe in the power of dreams. “Your perception of reality is reality.” Their philosophy is all about charity being that fuel which drives their powers. They guide people to their ultimate destiny with their powers. They are able to see the dreams of other people, visit the dreams of others, force a person to fall asleep. Oracles are said to see the future in their own dreams. They are sought after for advise.

Some of the ideas for the novel are, "magic and culture are tied together", "you don't need to shoot fireballs to be powerful", and "magic is for the true believers" The MC learns that helping others makes her more powerful, and her power exist to help others.

The Wardens don't really believe in anything right now. Their culture is all about individual effort, merit. The whole city is filled with craftsmen. It is believed craftsmen, of many different skills, are more likely to become wardens. In early versions they just touched a golden idol, but now I'm trying to make it more about ideas than monsters.


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## Chad Lynch (Aug 10, 2013)

I'd suggest the following.  Fire represents the energy of the universe, the energy of creation.  By creating things, either with their hands or through their magic, they share in that primal act of creation.  This creation brings them closer to the Creator of the universe.  I would suggest if you're going to go with this idea then their mages would be able to create solid matter, not just energy constructs:  Walls of stone, sheets of ice, a hedge row, ... ect.


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## Creed (Aug 12, 2013)

Just thinking about the implications of the circle may provide some ideas.
Immediately my mind goes to cycles and repetition. Reincarnation- an idea which arises in Hinduism and Buddhist thinking.
The circle is seen as infinite, and infinity. It is commonly associated with the heavens and the "wheel" of the sky.
Another circle-related idea I can think of is Uroboros, or Jormungandr (I'm not sure I spelt that right). The world serpent, who bites his own tail to make a ring. Another connection to the night sky in this is the fact that some culture- I don't remember which- looked up at the heavens and saw a serpent biting its tail when they saw the arm of our galaxy. You'll have likely seen this, too, the band of purple that arches across the sky.
Although it bleeds over to the binding aspect, marriage and the use of rings to bind two people together comes to mind.
I think you've got a cool idea here!


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## Snowpoint (Aug 12, 2013)

The symbol I like to use for Wardens is a candle. It creates a circle of light that doesn't let darkness in the circle. Energy naturally forms circles. All the celestial bodies of the universe are shaped into spheres and move in circles. 

I thinks the idea is good enough, the challenge is putting it into words. The Warden's Culture idolizes trade skills. It would follow that their magic is more like a trade skill than the others which are more like a belief system.


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## Queshire (Aug 12, 2013)

Hmmm..... I think you're closer than you think. The flame could represent their their inner self. "The light of the Soul." Just like if you stay true to who you are, your beliefs and so on, you can't be affected by people's words, with their magic, if you stay true to yourself you can't be harmed by physical things. The craft aspect might be a result of that, after all, how better to express your inner self than through creating something?

I gotta say, this is a very interesting idea, and I'm rather jealous that I didn't think of it first. I look forward to seeing the end result.


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## Leuco (Aug 13, 2013)

Snowpoint said:


> Some of the ideas for the novel are, "magic and culture are tied together", "you don't need to shoot fireballs to be powerful", and "magic is for the true believers" The MC learns that helping others makes her more powerful, and her power exist to help others.



I think that's cool. The other stuff its cool too!


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## Snowpoint (Nov 13, 2013)

I have come up with an idea that ties this whole thing together thematically. (sorry to necro a thread, but I do have something new to add to the conversation.)

This is concerning Warden Barrier Magic.

The spell needs fire to be cast. It also needs a sold object, the "anchor". The barrier is an invisible, intangible thing that is cast by fire from a solid object. The barriers are SHADOWS. The Wardens cast "shadows" barriers of invisible stuff that alter the world around them. 

They don't literally bring shadows to life. (That could be a whole different thing so anyone to use.) But in a metaphorical sense they give shape and substance to magic spells cast by the Light of their Fire. What would a 3-Dimensional Shadow look and act like? Their magic ability could be to transform these 2-Dimensional Shadows into 3-Dimensional Shadows that have properties decided by the Warden who conjured them.

It still isn't "philosophical", but it feels more thematic and mysterious than before. It feels like a field of study with many applications yet to be discovered. And that was one of my goals for this Project - For each system to have one ability used in many clever ways.


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## Addison (Nov 14, 2013)

The Wardens sort of sound Celtic. The celtic knot is five circles, the five elements, bound eternally together. Without the elements life does not exist. So perhaps the Wardens philosophy follows a sort of, "Magic is the earth, the earth is magic" ideal or such. So for a spell to work it could require fire, or any element like water, earth etc.  Your MC's understanding of her magic sounds like the Wiccan Rules. Protect the innocent, do not use magic for yourself, what ye send out comes back in three. 

Just a thought. 
Good luck. It's a great idea.


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## Snowpoint (Nov 20, 2013)

So I was reading Sanderson's Third Law, Linked Here, and was wondering if this would apply to my setting. He specifically says that if your book has multiple magic systems, like mine, that you should consolidate all of them into one system with many facets. 

Three of my four magics could be explained as Binding magic. 3 of the 4 systems could be folded into one system where each country has a unique way of using the "same" magic to produce three distinct systems. Take the core concept "Everything is Connected to every other thing". Binders literally tie objects together by magnetizing their common elements. Oracles see the past of an object allowing them to "bind" all the pieces of the object together into their original state. Tengu synchronize their diets to create telepathic links between themselves. All of these _Could _be called "Binding" Magic. (Wardens would be cut out in this model as they are the opposing force to binding, to remove oneself from those universal links.)

There is only one Big problem with consolidating my four Magic Systems. Culture. If everyone has Binding magic, then each new culture would be about how they are all so very similar except for that one thing that magic them different. Or, how each culture is completely different because their magic spell list is slightly different. 

My original intent is that these four cultures would be alienated from each other not only by their different beliefs, but because of their different abilities. Each culture discovered a _Different _truth of the universe. Because they believe in different things, they have different powers. Their culture developed with a unique magic at its center and each magic is a product of their culture. Each new country is a new opportunity to explore a new culture with new beliefs and new powers. 

It would be nice if all 4 of my magics were as solid as Binding magic. If all magic was a sub-category of Binding, then it would be. Binding is solid enough as a system to stand alone in a novel. It has a wide variety of uses and its power could expand over time in the same way technology advances.

If I wanted to write a novel where "Magic is Philosophy", having all three magic systems derive from one shared philosophy could be a very good thing. (Or a very bad thing - as it would invalidate any philosophy that did not grant superpowers.)

If I want to write a novel where Different cultures are at conflict because of Power and Ideals, then keeping each power separate would be the best option. My favorite part of the project is in these distinct cultures. (This might be the answer right here.)

Feel free to share your thoughts. I think I may have answered my own question, as I often do in forum posts, but I would love to here your though and opinions.


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## Mythopoet (Nov 20, 2013)

Sanderson's laws are, I'm sure, very useful for him in his writing. But every writer is different and every story has different needs. I wouldn't change how you've been developing your world just because of something another writer said. 

As far as philosophical ideas concerning circles, I might start with the ancient idea that the circle was the perfect shape or the idea of eternal return and brainstorm from there.


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## Snowpoint (Nov 21, 2013)

Mythopoet said:


> Sanderson's laws are, I'm sure, very useful for him in his writing. But every writer is different and every story has different needs.



Sanderson's Laws are just conversation starters. I just happened to read it and was wondering what impact it would have on my world. To my surprise, there is a good argument to be made, but I am always free to make my own decisions. 

Giving the Oracles the power to restore broken objects is a neat idea. They can read memories, which is good for gathering valuable intelligence. But giving them this extra power gives them this "awe factor" that would make them the centerpiece of a religion. Still, I'm not going to change things on a whim. I'll Keep working on this, or better yet - write a novel!  

If only it were that easy for me to start writing.


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## Snowpoint (Nov 26, 2013)

I have wanted to add nature spirits into this setting for a while. While I don't like the idea of every blade of grass having a voice, I like the idea of massive Spirit Kings that rule the wild places of the Earth.

Small spirits have life, but not in the same way animals or humans do. So, thousands of spirits "bind" together to form a single Avatar of nature that can live and breath like animals and humans do. This makes sense in contexts with the magic system and further supports that "Binding" should be a common element in all magic systems in this setting.

*Magnet Binding* - Creating a Force between to objects - pulling them together. They have quite a few small spells. Tracking, Restraining prisoners, Arrows that magically hit their target.

*Contract Binding* - Magical Contract carved in memory and flesh that forces the user to obey under penalty of death.

*Sensor Binding* - "Food Based Telepathy - Syncronize meals / food to create links between brains. (The Tengu)

*Dream Binding* - The Oracles, but re-purposed as Binders.


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## Mythopoet (Nov 27, 2013)

Oh, I see. You don't mean philosophy in the classical sense. You mean it in the colloquial sense. I was confused for a bit.


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## Snowpoint (Nov 28, 2013)

Mythopoet said:


> Oh, I see. You don't mean philosophy in the classical sense. You mean it in the colloquial sense. I was confused for a bit.



Classical might have been the oringinal intent, but as the ideas have developed, things change. The main element is "non-acedemic" as a reaction to most fantasy where most wizards are college students. Harry Potter and such types.

I have some ideas for the narritive now... but don't have access to my own laptop, or even a papper notepad right now. I have a nice motivation for the villain which is something I always struggle with.


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