# Need Help Making a Name for Dark Elf Race.



## Devora (Mar 26, 2012)

I am writing a novel which features Dark Elves, but I'm having a problem giving them a name. The reason for this is because simply calling them "Dark Elf" is a bit bland, and I'm not really for calling them "Drow" (probably like most writers) because that's D&D. I want to have something of my own if possible.

Should I stick with the name "Dark Elf", settle for "Drow", or come up with something my own?

If I were to come up with my own, what would you suggest for a name for the race of elves?

EDIT: I should ask instead of for names, but how do you think i should go about


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## Xanados (Mar 26, 2012)

I'm going to start saying this in every "need a name" thread.

Names, to a large extent, are arbitrary. Names, to me at least, are entirely subjective beings. Only when a character has a wealth of history and experience behind him does his name become memorable and important.

Names can be anything, really. You could name your dark elf something unfitting like "Elwaen". Those letters and the naming conventions therein are generally used for more "fluffy" and "soft" creatures. A name for a dark elf such as "Drokithar" is more suitable. But that is only following the naming conventions that most of us already know. 
A race name follows the same rules, I feel. 

Your race of dark elf could be entirely different. It's up to you. It's your preference and your aesthetic decision.

I just don't agree with someone asking for help with a name.


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## Devora (Mar 26, 2012)

Xanados said:


> I'm going to start saying this in every "need a name" thread.
> 
> Names, to a large extent, are abitrary. Names, to me at least, are entirley subjective beings. Only when a character has a wealth of history and experience behind him does his name become memorable and important.
> 
> ...



how do you think i should go about it then in terms of coming up with a name


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## Xanados (Mar 26, 2012)

Christopher Mahaney said:


> how do you think i should go about it then in terms of coming up with a name


If you wanted to do it simply, I'd say follow the standard naming conventions of fantasy races. But, as I say, it's entirely up to you. 

A common man, a noble in a civilized world: Thyandil Harthurin (to use one of my roleplaying characters) others are similar, but generally aren't too exotic. Names like Burliman, Thiador, Harlindon (Family name), etc. They can vary of course but it's best to have names that aren't too exotic nor too strange.

A dark elf: Drizzt. (To use the famous DnD character.) Drekthar, Roziel and Okreth. Obviously these are harsher sounding.

A high elf: Selwyn, Lesthial and Golwaen. Softer sounds.

You get the idea. I'm not a lecturer on this subject, clearly. It's just simple stuff.

Edit: As I said, it is very simple. You wouldn't call your typical orc something soft and angelic, would you? No, you'd call him "Orkuk 'Forgehammer' Drotharak"


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## Queshire (Mar 26, 2012)

Is drow even trademarked/copywrite? Well, anyways you could go back to the original dark elves, which did NOT come from D&D, there were dark elves in Norse mytholgoy called either DÃ¶kkÃ¡lfar or SvartÃ¡lfar, those that was just dark elf or black elf in a foreign language, you could do something like that, just translate dark elf to anoher language.

EDIT: Also, I'm not a fan of so called hard or soft sounds, that's just a cultural thing, sounds are souns.


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## Devora (Mar 26, 2012)

Xanados said:


> If you wanted to do it simply, I'd say follow the standard naming conventions of fantasy races. But, as I say, it's entirely up to you.
> 
> A common man, a noble in a civilized world: Thyandil Harthurin (to use one of my roleplaying characters) others are similar, but generally aren't too exotic. Names like Burliman, Thiador, Harlindon (Family name), etc. They can vary of course but it's best to have names that aren't too exotic nor too strange.
> 
> ...




I don't use actual forms of elvish to make the names.

two of the dark elf characters in the story are named: Da-Jai, and Dru'ik

and the "Light" elves (i'm still in writing the first draft so making evening out the "race balance" is not in full yet) that i have name's are: Duana, and Sau'dra.

But my point is not coming up with character names, but giving the Dark Elf race it's own name (Drow for D&D). What would your advice be for that


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## Xanados (Mar 26, 2012)

Queshire said:


> Is drow even trademarked/copywrite? Well, anyways you could go back to the original dark elves, which did NOT come from D&D, there were dark elves in Norse mytholgoy called either DÃ¶kkÃ¡lfar or SvartÃ¡lfar, those that was just dark elf or black elf in a foreign language, you could do something like that, just translate dark elf to anoher language.


If you're reffering to me with that, well I'm well aware that the dark elves came from Norse mythology. I just didn't mention it. 

Sorry, I've got a ton of books on Norse mythology and I'd hate to sound like a moron there


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## Xanados (Mar 26, 2012)

Christopher Mahaney said:


> But my point is not coming up with character names, but giving the Dark Elf race it's own name (Drow for D&D). What would your advice be for that


The only advice that anyone can rightly give, I think you'll find, is that it's entirely up to you. 

Drow could be called something entirely different and we would accept it either way. It's the background of the race/person that we care about. I'm just repeating myself now. Choose and name that flows and sounds right to you and noone can tell you that it's wrong. It's all subjective.

What I would advise against is this: do not make your story cliche. I just have a feeling that with light and dark elves in a story it will be to unoriginal. or at the very least will turn readers away. I'm sorry to say this but I think they are a tad overdone. But still, it's what you do with them that counts. Write it well because people may be turned off by another story with elves.


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## JCFarnham (Mar 26, 2012)

On the subject of the name _Drow_, it's etymological roots go back further than D&D. The original of _Drow_, is _Trow_ (the nordic-style "black" elves of Shetland, etc.) who are also the inspiration for the Scottish form, _Troll_. So as you can see when it comes to Mythology a lot of cultures influenced others, and from there it can be said that early fantasy writers drew their inspiration. Tolkien is credited with the common modern portrayal of elfs, but what we must remember is that he drew from Germanic, Nordic or Scandinavian folklore.

If you aren't comfortable with using "pre-packaged" names and all that comes with them, then may I suggest searching out the roots of those names. You might find something pre-Tolkienian that makes much more sense to you than dark elf or drow ever did 

For example, I think I'm right in saying that one form of the word _elf_ is _alp_. (Alp (folklore) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) Perhaps you could find other forms of same words and Fae creatures and create something out of those.

Do a Tolkien. Make them your own.


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## Xanados (Mar 26, 2012)

JCFarnham said:


> Do a Tolkien. Make them your own.


Exactly. And once more I shall say that it's up to yourself!


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## Devora (Mar 26, 2012)

Xanados said:


> What I would advise against is this: do not make your story cliche. I just have a feeling that with light and dark elves in a story it will be to unoriginal. or at the very least will turn readers away. I'm sorry to say this but I think they are a tad overdone. But still, it's what you do with them that counts. Write it well because people may be turned off by another story with elves.



Elves don't show up to promenently in the story other than a few minor characters; nothing particularly Tolkien-esque in terms of scale. 

The major characters will involve a dark elf, and a _Half_ Elf.


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## Xanados (Mar 26, 2012)

Christopher Mahaney said:


> Elves don't show up to promenently in the story other than a few minor characters; nothing particularly Tolkien-esque in terms of scale.
> 
> The major characters will involve a dark elf, and a _Half_ Elf.


Well, good. Still, I think you should be a tad careful. And I also didn't mean to offend you by saying that your work may be unoriginal.


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## Devora (Mar 26, 2012)

No offense taken. I completely agree with you; i would not like writing a story that, to large degree, wasn't my own.


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## Saigonnus (Mar 26, 2012)

I think the name should be something easy to pronounce for readers; not like "Krzkrjyrics" or something like it. Whatever it comes to be called, it will be important only in the fact that people/readers will associate that name with the cultural aspects that you portray in the story. 

I think perhaps you should explore the reasons for using the dynamic of "Dark Elves" or "Drow" in the first place. Answering some basic questions about the culture could help refine them and help to come up with a suitable name. 

1. Why are they evil? Is it religious like with the D&D Drows or something else? What makes them the way they are and what specific things in their culture could be construed at "evil" by outsiders? Are they truly evil or is that just their reputation with the "light" elves?

2. What is their basic social structure like? Is it everyone always trying to murder each other like drows or something different?

3. What kind of racial history do they have? Are they off-shoots of other types of elves (like the typical Drows in D&D) or like with cro-magnon and astrolopithicus are they genetically similar but not part of the same race at all? I think perhaps making them similar but not a species of "elf" wound be more interesting.

4. Why have "light" and "dark" elves? how are they different and why are they enemies? This seems too reminiscent of D&D for my taste with the faerie elves aboveground and dark elves forced below by them in eons past. Certainly, depending on the environment they live in, it could influence how they act and what they look like and you can have several "subcultures" of elves with slightly varying social mores and belief systems.  

5. What do they look like? Dark skinned like Drows or different? I always thought that any races that have lived belowground for more than a few generations would actually have lighter skin and that the Drows (in that way) were a little unrealistic. Dark pigmentation in humans comes from Melanin and that is directly affected by the amount of sunlight that a person or people is exposed to. If they don't see the sun at all, it would stand to reason they'd be extremely pale... not dark skinned at all.


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## Xanados (Mar 26, 2012)

Saigonnus said:


> I think the name should be something easy to pronounce for readers; not like "Krzkrjyrics" or something like it. Whatever it comes to be called, it will be important only in the fact that people/readers will associate that name with the cultural aspects that you portray in the story.
> 
> I think perhaps you should explore the reasons for using the dynamic of "Dark Elves" or "Drow" in the first place. Answering some basic questions about the culture could help refine them and help to come up with a suitable name.
> 
> ...



Those are all very valid and important questions, some of which I am sure Christopher has already pondered. 

Yes, it is important to have an answer to most of these questions, but I'd just say not to get too carried away with world-building. World-builder's disease and all that, eh?

Christopher, would you mind telling us a little bit more about your elves?

Concerning the typical dark elf skin colour: I hadn't ever thought of that myself. And, having not read any of the DnD books, wonder greatly as to the reasoning behind their being dark.
Do you know, Saigonnus?


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## Saigonnus (Mar 26, 2012)

LOL... They simply were... perhaps something to do with the latent "energies" in the subterranean caverns they live in (most of their magic is unpredictable under the sky) I read the Dark Elf trilogy, the Icewind Dale Trilogy and most of the writings by R.A. Salvatore and he is pretty detailed on his drow culture.

I am not saying those questions will make any difference to the story, just the basic answers to those questions would at least give him the idea on the culture and whether the details make it into the book is up to him but at least HE knows those details and can decide which ones to put into the story.


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## Devora (Mar 26, 2012)

Xanados said:


> Those are all very valid and important questions, some of which I am sure Christopher has already pondered.
> 
> Yes, it is important to have an answer to most of these questions, but I'd just say not to get too carried away with world-building. World-builder's disease and all that, eh?
> 
> ...



Saigonnus, you made me realize that I need to put more planning into my story. I don't have much back story because I mostly write-as-I-go. Do you have any advice to give in terms of Planning a story?

Xanados, The most I can tell you about the Dark Elves and "Light" Elves is that they started out as one Elven Tribe before Dark Elves were shunned, and a war (which is on going in the story) broke out (I might take Saigonnus's questioning and think of why the two factions got to this position). I will say that there are three types of Elves (tell me if it's too cliche): Dark Elves, Wood Elves, and High Elves. The reason the "light" elves are two factions is because a small group of Elves left the main cities long ago, and lived an almost Druid life amongst nature (there's gonna be an instance of druids in the story). The High Elves still respect the Wood-Elves, seeing that they prove themselves formidable warriors, while High Elves stuck with mainly Political and War planning matters. I might elaborate on Dark Elves in a chapter of the story, more so than Wood or High Elves because two of the major characters of the story are Dark Elves.


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## Devora (Mar 26, 2012)

Saigonnus said:


> LOL... They simply were... perhaps something to do with the latent "energies" in the subterranean caverns they live in (most of their magic is unpredictable under the sky) I read the Dark Elf trilogy, the Icewind Dale Trilogy and most of the writings by R.A. Salvatore and he is pretty detailed on his drow culture.
> 
> I am not saying those questions will make any difference to the story, just the basic answers to those questions would at least give him the idea on the culture and whether the details make it into the book is up to him but at least HE knows those details and can decide which ones to put into the story.



I won't be using Salvatore's Dark Elves (I never read those books so it would be easier to do so). I want to steer away from them being subterranean, Matriarchal beings.


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## Saigonnus (Mar 26, 2012)

Basically what alot of people do for outlining a story is just write down all the major plot points you want to hit for the rough draft. These could change as you write, but at least you'll have some idea of what you can start with. Even if you keep all the major plot points, there is still alot of room for adding other stuff in.

MC is orphaned from this family and forced to live on the streets.
MC meets a thief who takes them in
MC becomes part of the guild
MC realizes that the guild master is a hypocrite and begins to see things differently
MC meets a girl in the market and they get to hanging out together
MC finds out the girl is a "watcher" who wants to find out about the guild so she can bring about it's destruction
MC helps her from the inside, giving small tidbits so that the most powerful individuals in the guild are captured/killed
The guild master finds out about the MC and he is forced to flee.
The watcher hides him and incorporates him into her plans.
Together the MC and the watcher expose the guild to the full wrath of the powers that be or their enemies.

As you can see it doesn't generally take anything about the environment or background into account, nor does it cover personal emotions or interpersonal relationships, just the flow of the story and it is easily malleable into something more detailed.


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## Xanados (Mar 26, 2012)

I read, Christopher, that you haven't thought much about outlining your story. While this I generally shun, I believe that the right amount of "free form writing" can do a writer some good. 

I will say that having an exstensive document is good if you're an "architect" writer (like I am - somone who plans a lot before writing), but it can sometimes write out the life of your characters.
On the other hand, if you want to entirely free-form, you may find that your writing is unfocused and clumsy.

I feel that one shouldn't be a writer if one cannot plan ahead and have an exstensive list of notes


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## Saigonnus (Mar 26, 2012)

I think Dragonlance had three types of elves also... High elves generally lived in cities (like tolkien) and were haughty and arrogant toward everyone they had pale skin, light colored hair and eyes. Wood elves were darker skinned and darker eyed and lives in the forests. They were more aloof and once you proved to be their friend, they fiercely defended you like family. Their dark elves were more like Duergar in that they weren't matriarchal, but they did live below ground (generally life dwarves in caves or mountain tunnels). Their reason was a war also, one that forced those that "rebelled" against the elven empire to take shelter elsewhere. 

It may be bit clichÃ©, but I think as long as you find some way to differenciate them from other "archetypes" of elves and make them your own, it could work for you. 

For example, I have a sub-race of "elves" in one of the world I made that lived in a normally unhospitable desert, making their skin darker than other elves. Over the millenia, they adapted to live there and even thrive, relying heavily on trade with humans and other species for much of their lifestyle. They are not "evil", just resentful at "regular" elves for how they were treated centuries past and as such stay away from settlements with a large percentage of elves in the population. They are known for the quality of their steel (it is rare most places in the world and employ slaves and criminals in getting the ore from the ground. 

The magical power they have is similar in style and effect with other races and they ride large lizards in combat, some up to thirty feet long from tip to tail. They typicall wear light colors and are fiercely protective of anything in their territory, often killing outsiders (if they try to take something belonging to them) or simply forcing them out of their land after a period of working in the mines for punishment for trespassing.

They live in tents when out on patrol or following migratory patterns but have two permanent communities in suitable canyons (with a source of water); their homes recessed into the sides of the canyon walls, or built from adobe and all available space is used for planting.


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## Devora (Mar 26, 2012)

It's not that i don't plan the story, i do a bit of pre-planning; it's just that i work most of it out as i go along. So far it has worked, but i have the feeling that I've reached a point in the writing process that that method isn't gonna cut out for longer narratives such as novel. 

I guess what I'm saying is that I need to adopt a more concise, yet precise writing method.


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## Xanados (Mar 26, 2012)

Christopher Mahaney said:


> It's not that i don't plan the story, i do a bit of pre-planning; it's just that i work most of it out as i go along. So far it has worked, but i have the feeling that I've reached a point in the writing process that that method isn't gonna cut out for longer narratives such as novel.
> 
> I guess what I'm saying is that I need to adopt a more concise, yet precise writing method.


The best advice I can give is this: outline your plot, free-form your characters. That's pretty self explanatory.


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## JCFarnham (Mar 26, 2012)

A bit of trivia for you guys: orginally the dark of the "drow"-type elves didn't refer to their skin, rather their hair. They were pale like most but with night black hair.

I have no point to make there, just thought it would be interesting to know haha


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## Devora (Mar 26, 2012)

Saigonnus said:


> It may be bit clichÃ©, but I think as long as you find some way to differenciate them from other "archetypes" of elves and make them your own, it could work for you.



I think what i will do to differentiate High, and Wood Elves is to make the High Elves seem very distant in looks from humans; they're mostly above 5'11", and the are very slim, almost seem to be unnaturally elongated. The Wood Elves will Closely resemble humans more than the High Elves due to them having to live the same conditional, and survival patterns that humans did (i.e. Natural Selection), and so will the Dark Elves for the most part since the "Great Schism", even though they are slightly taller. As far as the importance of age among the Races, I'll work that one out.


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## Mindfire (Mar 31, 2012)

A tip: something I like to do for my cultures is to derive their names out of their language. All names have a language that they spring from, and different languages prefer different sets of syllables, vowels, and consonant patterns. The names that come from these languages reflect these. You can tell, just by looking at it, that Jacques is a French name the same way you can tell that Kasumi is a Japanese name. You can use this kind of thinking to great effect when making up names associated with fictional cultures. And here's the kicker: you don't actually have to make up a language! All you need is the "rules" that govern they way the fictional language sound. As long as you stick by those rules, you'll get names that sound internally consistent.

_Examples from my work:_
-Mavarians do not use the letters c, q, or x, and they favor hard consonants like the letter k. Here are some Mavarian names: Kohar, Ordavi, Reuben, Shikandi. You can tell by the way they sound that they all belong together.

-Beorgians are opposite of Mavarians. They make common use of c, q, and x, the avoid hard and double consonants, and they never use the letter k. Some Beorgian names: Pavel, Leith, Chavril, Yasha. Again, they all sort of "belong."

Grouping names for different cultures based on "rules" is a great way to help the reader remember which characters are of which race. They can recognize the pattern and associate the name with a larger culture. What kind of syllables and patterns do your dark elves make common use of? What do you imagine their language sounds like? Is it hard or soft? Do they prefer long words or short? Does their speech have any real-world analogues? Think about these things, make a list, and then use those "rules" to govern your name creation. If you do that, you should be able to come up with a name for their race that sounds cool and is consistent and evocative of their culture. It'll also probably be unique.


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