# Why Not Short Stories?



## Philip Overby (Jun 29, 2012)

As most of us know, most novelists start out writing short stories and other media before going on to write books.  However, I notice a lot of people seem to comment on their novels most of the time.  Are you adverse to writing short stories or just prefer to write longer works?  

I'm employing a system that I'm liking at the moment.  I have my novel that I'm working on and now I've started squeezing a short story in between writing time.  That way I can "cheat" and work on something else without getting Creative ADD and starting a new novel.  

Anyone else in the market for short stories?


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## Feo Takahari (Jun 29, 2012)

I can't answer why people don't, but the reason I do write short stories is that I don't know how to create a meaningful, non-padded story that takes an entire novel to conclude itself. When my characters have a goal, they set out to complete it, and while I could add an arbitrary number of obstacles along the way, I usually only need three to accomplish the necessary character development for the final conflict. (Maybe I need to start creating larger casts to develop?)


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## Zophos (Jun 29, 2012)

Excellent discussion topic. I think I actually prefer shorts as a reader, as well. That's my primary complaint about the direction fantasy writing has taken. Maybe I'm a product of my generation, but I don't really want to sit around and read a trilogy of 1,000 page books. If it takes that long to get to the point, there probably never was one, IMO.

You know Feo, I have just the opposite problem. I can write a million and a half pages and never reach resolution. The hardest thing about a story for me is finishing the damn thing. I get sidetracked too easily, stack 10 themes on top of one another, and tend to be way too verbose.

There's a very frustrating irony to paragraph 1 & 2, above.


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## Ophiucha (Jun 29, 2012)

Feo Takahari said:


> I can't answer why people don't, but the reason I do write short stories is that I don't know how to create a meaningful, non-padded story that takes an entire novel to conclude itself. When my characters have a goal, they set out to complete it, and while I could add an arbitrary number of obstacles along the way, I usually only need three to accomplish the necessary character development for the final conflict. (Maybe I need to start creating larger casts to develop?)



I have the same problem, it seems. Try as I might - and I daresay I have tried to pad my works out a bit - I've never written anything longer than about 65,000 words, which is rather short for a fantasy novel. _Most _of my non-short stories clock in between 20k and 40k, which doesn't even qualify as a novel in publishing standards. I've even written novellas with decently large casts - the main party of my pet project for a while had _eight_ people in the main "party" and a fair few supporting characters and antagonists. The final draft still only was 62,500 words, though. My current project is turning into a trilogy, but each book in it is 25k-35k, which makes the whole thing a bit shorter than a single average fantasy _novel_, let alone a trilogy.

@OP, I write short stories! A lot of them are just a "get the creative juices flowing" sort of project - unedited, first draft affairs - but I've got about ten short stories for my main worldbuilding project that I want to collect with the two novellas into an anthology of sorts. And I read a lot of short stories, too. Absolute favourite: "The Courtship of the Queen" by Bruce McAllister.


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## ShortHair (Jun 29, 2012)

The reason fantasy writers prefer long forms is because they have a lot of background to present. You can't introduce your reader to a whole culture or an entire world into one short story--at least, you can't do it justice, when you've still got characters, plot, etc. to fit in there too. If you're dealing with an established setting, that's different.


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## Philip Overby (Jun 29, 2012)

@ShortHair:  I have to disagree here.  There are tons of awesome fantasy short stories out there that do fine with introducing all of those elements without sacrificing quality.  I think when writing epic fantasy then yes, it is hard to fit all you want into a small package.  But I've noticed more and more that e-zines and even magazines  are trying to get more flash fiction because that's what people read (on the internet anyway).  I'm a big fan of both forms, but I don't necessarily always think bigger=better.  I'm reading a collection of short stories by Andrzej Sapkowski right now and it's really awesome.  All within very small word counts.


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## Steerpike (Jun 29, 2012)

Do 'most' novelists start with short stories? I'm not sure about that.  The two forms are quite different and if you prefer novel writing I think it is fine to start with those. I don't agree that novels are written because they are needed to present background and world detail, either. Good writers aren't loading their stories with these things to such an extent that it would make the difference between a novel and a shorter form. You can find good novels approaching 1000 pages that don't do this.

I write both because I like both forms. That's the way to go - write what you enjoy.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 29, 2012)

I'm with Feo on this one.  I want a story that creates a meaningful arc for the protagonist.  For me, that's hard to do in a short story (not that I think other's can't, just that it's not my forte).

Also, creating good characters is a difficult part of writing.  Once I have one, I want to do more with him/her than go 10k words and stop.

Finally, as a reader, I want to get to know a character and spend a lot of time with them.  I like series.  I like long series especially.  You got 15 1000 page books?  Fantastic!  Given that viewpoint, I don't particularly care for short series.  Why would I write something that I don't like reading?


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## ProfessorBrainfever (Jun 29, 2012)

It depends on your definitions, but I've written a short story almost every week since last October. That's because I have a weekly podcast. It keeps me writing. No matter what else I do, I have to write at least 1200 words a week, which is nice.


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## Christopher Wright (Jun 29, 2012)

I think for a while novels became dominant because it was the most profitable way to sell a story. There is a specific baseline cost in physical printing, and since you can easily justify charging more for a novel (because it's longer) then publishers would say "if we tack another 200 pages on this printing our costs go up by x but our profits go up by x*y."

Technology and the cost of technology tends to affect things like that.

The good news is, I think there's room for the short story again. Look in the kindle market and you'll find a lot of stories, even ones being sold, that are around 25,000 words in length. Significantly shorter than a novel. It might take some time to figure out how to properly re-market the short story, though.


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## Steerpike (Jun 29, 2012)

I am interested to see how it all works out on the marketplace. I like short stories, and I buy anthologies of them a lot. I don't envision myself buying a single short story, however. Maybe that will change over time.


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## Elder the Dwarf (Jun 29, 2012)

I'm the opposite of Feo.  I can't seem to write a short story because I can't come up with a plot that can be resolved within that length restriction.


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## Philip Overby (Jun 29, 2012)

George R.R. Martin for instance wrote tons of short stories and wrote for TV before he became a novelist.  Stephen King wrote short stories too (hell, he has loads of collections with them).  Maybe not most writers, but I'd say a good deal of them start out writing short stories and then built a reputation before writing novels.  I just don't understand why some are adverse to writing short stories.  Yes, short story collections don't sell as well, but there is a market for getting them out there.  

I don't want people to think I'm knocking novels, because I love them.  I just wonder why there's this propensity to put all your eggs in the "novel basket."


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## Steerpike (Jun 29, 2012)

Phil, interestingly, did you see the Brandon Sanderson video in the other thread? He talks about short story writing being a good entry into the field 30 years ago or more (which is around the time GRRM and King were writing a lot of them), but that this is no longer the case. What are your thoughts on that?


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## Philip Overby (Jun 29, 2012)

Which thread?  I'll take a look at it.

My thoughts are that short stories are still a viable way to hone your craft and get your name out there.  It's also a way to earn accolades, win contests, and the like.  I wouldn't say one path is better than the other (writing short stories first then trying novels, or writing novels only).  

Poetry used to be more viable than prose, but that hasn't stopped people from writing it.  Sure, poetry doesn't have as big of an audience anymore (this coming from someone whose thesis was a poetry collection) but it's a medium that can be explored like any other.  

Are there writers who are big in the fantasy genre right now that have only written novels?  I'm curious to know if there is an example.  I know Sanderson is known for his novels, but I'm pretty sure he's written shorts as well (I saw one on Tor.com a while back.)

My point is why limit yourself to only one medium?  Some of the best in the field have written short stories and novels (and probably loads of other things.)  

I guess my point being that fantasy doesn't have to be limited to just door-stoppers.  Especially nowadays.


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## Penpilot (Jun 29, 2012)

I write short stories. I've put a hold on writing them to focus on finishing my current novel. But once that's done, my goal is to write 10 short stories before diving into my next novel.

Short stories are good for exploring one idea and saying something about it. With novels you need lots of ideas and you have to explore some of them very deeply and say a lot about them. All that while weaving all the ideas together. 

To me, In writing a short story you have to really understand what you're trying to get at because you don't have the luxury of wandering around. The short story has to be focused and concise, getting in and out with no wasted words. Those are things every writer should learn to do. 

In novels, you have room to breathe. The problem is finding enough breath to fill the room and the stamina exhale it.


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## Twook00 (Jun 29, 2012)

There is a similar thread taking place in the Publishing forum.  I'm just going to repost what I said there on the subject.  It would seem that I share Phil the Drill's way of thinking, or at least his sources...

I've heard it said that short stories are a great way to get started as a writer, especially from Ray Bradbury, George R. R. Martin, and Stephen King. Many of my favorite authors (including those aforementioned) began their careers this way and continue to write short fiction. 

Here are the benefits, in my opinion:
1) The Practice - If you're like me, you might have 50 ideas swimming through your head at one time. I have a habit of starting a novel, getting to a difficult place in that novel, and giving up to move on to something else. The result is that I am getting a ton of practice with beginnings, but virtually none with middles and ends (and character development, plot development, and anything else that requires a story to be complete). 

Short stories, on the other hand, allow the writer to practice all of these elements in a very short amount of time. You get accustomed to finishing things and enhancing an entire story. And, as they are short, you can write several of them in the time it takes to write one sprawling epic novel.

2) The Recognition - While you may not be an avid reader of short fiction, there are many sites and publishers who pay a great deal of attention to this field. 

Imagine you write a few good shorts, you get published in Asimov's or Analog or Clarkesworld, maybe you win an award or two, and then you decide you want to write a novel. Well, your reputation as a competent, successful writer will come in very handy when publishing. Plus, if you can interest readers in as little as 25 pages or less, then they will be anxious to see what you can do with 400 pages.

I was not interested in short fiction until I was told it would help my writing. I started listening to short fiction podcasts and I have to say, I love them now. I would recommend you read the Songs of a Dying Earth anthology edited by George R. R. Martin. He actually has an amazing story in there (as does Neil Gaiman).


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## Ireth (Jun 29, 2012)

I've only written a couple of short stories, but I'm working on one alongside my novels. My finished short stories are both VERY short, in the range of a few pages and no more. The one in progress is going to be much longer, since it's an adaptation of a much longer work. I'm much more a fan of novels and poetry, the latter of which I've written quite a lot of. Unfortunately much of it falls into the fanfiction category, so it might not be the right thing to share here. There's quite a selection on my deviantART page though, if anyone is interested.

/shameless plug


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## Agran Velion (Jun 29, 2012)

I used to refuse to write short stories because I felt that there was no market/way to publish them. When I look at the sci-fi/fiction section (I will hunt down whoever organized that bookstore) I never see anthologies*, only novels. I've always thought that if I wanted to get my name out and be a professional author. I've always felt like I would be wasting my time if I wasn't doing something that didn't directly contribute to something that would be published. A flaw that I really need to work on. 


Of course, I've recently found Duotrope, which shows quite a large online short story market, and offers the chance for people to see my work (and maybe even get paid!). So I get to hone my craft, while appealing to my 'Must have other people see work' side. 


*The bookstore I go to is very small compared to others, so that could be the reason.


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## ThinkerX (Jun 29, 2012)

Something that used to be done, but does not appear to have been brought up so far:

*linked* short stories or novellas which combine to form a full novel.

Each story becomes a chapter or group of chapters in the finished book.

One major example of this - George Martins 'Game of Thrones' began as a novella featuring all of the first books 'Dany' sequence - right up until the dragons hatched.

This is an approach I find myself considering, as I have quite a number of older works, intended as parts of novels, that almost count as full stories in their own right.  My problem, unfortunately, is that even with editing, many or most of these sections will be novellas, a length of tale for which the market appears to be nearly dead.


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## Bear (Jun 30, 2012)

My first book comprised of six short stories. The first four were linked to form one larger story. The name of the story was Hazel and each short could stand alone but if you connected the dots there were linking points. The fifth short story spawned a novella which is the prequel to the short story.  There are many ways to market and explore short stories.


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## T.Allen.Smith (Jun 30, 2012)

I dunno. I've heard from a lot of traditionally published author's that I work with say short stories are becoming a distinct style more so than ever. 

Writing a short takes a certain skill set. Boiling it down to the fewest possible words and all.  In my opinion if you want to write short stories then great! That's a subset that is not only worthy but could use some rejuvenation. However, if your desire is to write a novel, well that's kind of a different skill set. Better to practice actually writing a novel.

The one thing about writing shorts though, that can translate to the novel writer, is the necessity to be concrete & concise. If you can master that in a short, well it can only help you in writing a full book.


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## Ghost (Jun 30, 2012)

I love short stories. While I have plans for novels, I find short stories easier to deal with. Since a short story has a tight focus and narrow scope–one central idea, one conflict or issue, few scenes and locations–I can visualize the whole better.

I'm like Feo in that my stories are very condensed, mostly because of my pacing and the lack of details or meandering. It's in and out for me. I've started stories thinking they'll be ~6000 words, but they turn out to be 2000 words. I can't imagine starting a short story and ending up with a novel!

I've noticed the forum is very novel-centric, perhaps even oriented toward multiple books. I see many folks here who look at short stories as stepping stones to getting a novel published (either through practice or publication credits) or as a supplement to long works rather than an art form in their own right. Poor, little short story. But I guess it hasn't been as mistreated as the novella. Things seem to be changing with the rise of e-publishing, so yay!

Perhaps some writers prefer novels because they _read_ more novels. I read a lot of anthologies and a few collections growing up. While forming opinions about what I like, I had both long and short fiction to draw from, so I never saw one as inferior to the other.

There's often more money and prestige in novels, and that might influence new writers dreaming of success. They imagine a book on the bookshelf next to their favorite authors, not one short story out of dozens in a magazine. I suspect it's one reason some writers avoid self-publishing and e-publishing as well.



ThinkerX said:


> Something that used to be done, but does not appear to have been brought up so far:
> 
> *linked* short stories or novellas which combine to form a full novel.
> 
> Each story becomes a chapter or group of chapters in the finished book.



I've mentioned before, perhaps only in chat, that I'm working on a short story cycle. The stories wouldn't exactly be chapters since they could be read on their own and they feature different events. The plan is to have 12-15 stories set in the same city. The main character is different in each one, but each makes minor appearances in other stories. The goal is for each character's actions to affect others even if they never meet.

I wouldn't call something like this a novel as it's a collection, but if you do stories that are episodic and something remains constant throughout (like the main character or the conflict), I could see it as a novel. I'm also thinking of doing a set of serial short stories, but the plans are still sketchy.


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## julidrevezzo (Jul 5, 2012)

As a writer, I still write them. It's a good way to "clear the throat" as J.V. Jones calls it, and you never know, it just might turn into something longer. I have more than one that became the first chapter (or at least a chapter) in a novel manuscript. One of the things I'm sure no one has overlooked is that a good deal of the print short story zines, aside from having narrow focus, have virtually dropped out of existence--especially with the demise of Realms of Fantasy. The hardest part has always been getting the story past those gatekeepers. It seems like all the majors have a "list of what we hope we never see again" yet, one can point to a dozen new releases that have the very same things. Quite frankly, those lists of "forbidden things" are never what make _me_ set a short story down in disappointment, but in fact from time to time I wish the intriguing little short had been *longer*. That's what invariably disappoints me with the form. On the other hand, yeah, I find I've purchased more kindle books shorter than 30k in word length these days.

As far as writing and submitting shorts, well, they have been good learning experience so I say try them.  Duotrope has a gazillion and one suggested zines. You never know. You might get lucky and sell a story. If that doesn't suit, well, e-publishing makes an alternative to traditional short story mag submissions.


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## Ambora (Jul 5, 2012)

I enjoy writing short stories; I haven't in a while though. Whenever I would write short stories for an old class, the feedback was always the same: it would sound more like the first chapter of a book rather than a short story.


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## Legendary Sidekick (Jul 5, 2012)

WIP = short story... unless it grows into an unfinishable monster.

What I'm really aiming for is a setting that can have lots of connected stories involving a main character and several side characters. The side stories are meant to be one-shots, and the MC has several stories. In a way, it's not much different from you working on a novel and short stories in between.


I agree with Wright's point that the market may have once driven longer novels, but now that e-readers are big, short stories are more marketable. In fact, there's a royalty model (Kindle Shorts, I think) that give authors incentive to keep it down to 30k or less.


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## JCFarnham (Jul 5, 2012)

Legendary Sidekick said:


> In fact, there's a royalty model (Kindle Shorts, I think) that give authors incentive to keep it down to 30k or less.



Ah well there's the answer then. In marketing terms that is a huuuuge tell that some power out there in the industry has decided that short stories are the in thing, or rather they prefer them and are pushing the form.

That say's  a lot about the industry in fact.


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## Legendary Sidekick (Jul 5, 2012)

It does.

But given the changes in my life, this is a good change for me. My first novel was started before my first daughter was born and finished a year later when she was a few months old. I actually moved from Hong Kong to U.S. in that time. So... 155,000 words in a year. Yay me.

Now I have two pre-school-aged girls running around and a third about to be born. I prefer writing short stories, at least now while they're young and in need of attention.


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## Helen (Jul 5, 2012)

Phil the Drill said:


> Are you adverse to writing short stories or just prefer to write longer works?



Great exercise - set yourself a target of writing one short story a day for a month. 

And improving the ones that aren't so good.

You learn SO MUCH about construction.

I love short stories.


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## Philip Overby (Jul 5, 2012)

That's a great idea, Helen.  I may even try that in August maybe.


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## ethgania (Jul 5, 2012)

Short stories are love-hate for me.  I like reading them.  I like the idea of being able to sit down, write a story, not spending a million years finishing it or editing afterwords, and then having this cute bite-sized pocket of a world that anyone can read and enjoy without much commitment to read another hundred thousand words.  I like analyzing short stories and seeing just how much they have in there.
But I think and expand waaay too much to ever fit any of my fantasy stuff into short form.  I write disjointed scenes a lot, sure, but that's without explaining any of the background, etc, that someone not living in my head would need.


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## julidrevezzo (Mar 28, 2013)

I just had one published in a small ezine. So, yeah, from time to time I still delve into them.


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## Chessie (Mar 28, 2013)

I love short stories! I love writing and reading them. They are especially great for a quick literary fix.  I find them helpful to get creative juices flowing, as well.


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## Anders Ã„mting (Mar 28, 2013)

I can't write short stories reliably. I've had maybe two good ideas for short stories in the last ten years, but otherwise my brain just isn't wired for short-term narratives. Every good idea I get immediately super-novas into a damn _franchise._


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