# Covid-19 Pandemic Thread



## Sheilawisz (Mar 21, 2020)

Given the severity, wide international coverage and serious danger of the current situation, I have decided to start our own discussion thread here in our Mythic Scribes community.

Are you alarmed at the Covid-19 pandemic? Feeling spooked? What are your thoughts at the moment regarding the disease? Do you have any questions or perhaps points of view that you would like to share? Please feel free to express your worries and questions in this thread, so we can have a productive discussion together.

What is the situation like these days in your country or your city?


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## CupofJoe (Mar 21, 2020)

Because of an underlying health condition, the British government has decided that I [and all like me] should social distance [stay at home and work] for at least the next 12 weeks. This is one of the busiest times at work, so it will prove interesting. I live alone and have no family nearby so the prospect of 12 weeks alone does not fill me with glee. The Team I work in has agreed to meet over video every day for a chat, even if there is no work need so at least I will see and talk to someone every day. And I've set up a daily schedule to stop me going stir-crazy [Walk, Breakfast, Work, Lunch, Birdwatch, Work, Dinner, Walk]. I'm lucky to have a nature reserve at the end of my road which is usually deserted.
I'm not that worried about the actual disease. I've been ill before and [hopefully] will again. I just want to make life easy for most people by staying out of the way and only going out when needed.
I think it is the fear of the unknown that is scaring a lot of people right now.
The shops still have most of the food I want and all the food I need. Maybe with a little less choice but it is there. And people are smiling. The smiles are a bit thin and a bit nervous but they are there.
Personally I think things will get worse, then better, then worse, then better and then who knows. This is going to be a Long Haul!
On the upside, I will have lots more time to write. Or at least think about writing. Or maybe watching Buffy and the West Wing from start to finish.
All in all, I have it pretty easy and I am grateful to my gods for that.


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## Insolent Lad (Mar 21, 2020)

I have already 'self-isolated' during flu season for the past few years. I started doing it when I was a caregiver for my mother, not wishing to bring any infection home and stuck to it after she passed (not being all that young myself). Normally, I'd be coming out of 'hibernation' around this time but I guess it will be postponed this year. I live way out in the country so I'm not confined to my home or anything like that and can hike and bike and generally get outdoors. So no great inconvenience there. I am missing on getting out and listening to and/or performing music.

I do have to run to the grocer every couple weeks (minimum) but I never let that bother me when the flu was a concern so I probably won't now. Still, I'll hurry and go when it is least crowded!


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## Maker of Things Not Kings (Mar 21, 2020)

As near hermits already, in our small coastal fishing town, not much has changed until you get to the grocery store. Odd to see even one empty shelf in a large store but we have it better than most large cities where the number of people shopping per store is far higher. 

As of Friday our county hasn't had a confirmed case but testing here is still/has been minimal. Also odd to see all of the restaurants closed except for take away but we've been cooking nearly every meal at home for the last ten years.  We went into town to pick up an oven part the other day and, when we signed the receipt, the woman behind the counter said, "And you can keep the pen". I realized she had a holder with about fifty pens on the counter.  I know that's such a small thing but it really struck me as to the level of caution in that one small gesture. 

We have an elderly couple as our closest neighbors and we are keeping an eye on them, asking if we can get them anything at the store etc but they are pretty intent on doing for themselves still. 

Thus far, there's been no slow down at all in our online businesses but we expect that may still come if it gets worse. It does make me glad that I've always been pretty self sufficient and a true homebody who self-entertains well and not one who craves going out much at all.  

Stay safe everyone.


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## skip.knox (Mar 21, 2020)

My wife and I live in a bedroom community near Boise, Idaho. There's about a quarter million people in the valley, but my town is about 15,000. We recently did planned shopping with the aim of not having to go out for any reason for at least a week (except to walk the dog). 

My dearly-loved father-in-law passed away in January. Wife&I remark almost every day on how difficult it would have been for the family had he made it a couple more months. He would be in lockdown, with none of his (large) family able to visit him in his last days. Knowing how painful that would have been makes me sympathetic for others. I'm sure there are people all over who face that exact situation.

Also fortunate, my wife had arthroscopic knee surgery just three weeks ago. All elective surgeries are now canceled. So I think we're set to ride out the next few weeks.

I'm not scared or even worried. I'm quite certain that it's going to get pretty bad here in the USA because we have spent the past forty years gutting our health care system and our social services, and are now led by a delusional fool who has surrounded himself with fools. So we're in for a rough time. In genuinely bad times, you don't worry, you dig in.


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## Sheilawisz (Mar 22, 2020)

Hello everyone!

Thanks for your various and very thoughtful replies. I am glad to discover that we are taking the situation in good spirits, since falling victims to panic would be the worst thing to do right now. Epidemics do not last forever, and yes this one is going to be hard but we shall persevere and eventually see calm after the storm.

I do believe that towns and small cities are going to have an easier time than places with a very large population, and I am somewhat relieved that I live in a small city myself.

My city of Pachuca is eerily quiet at the moment, with all schools, university, pubs and movie theaters already closed by order of the Hidalgean government. Most people here are quite spooked, so a lot of us are venturing out there only for the most essential of needs.

The Hidalgean government is taking strong actions against the outbreak, but we already have several confirmed Covid-19 cases in the city. The good things are that there is no panic, and our supermarkets continue to be well supplied with everything necessary.

We even have our own inflatable hospital equipped with ICUs so that the regular hospitals do not have to handle the crisis all by themselves, and the _Tuzobus_ transport system is receiving constant disinfection rounds. In sharp contrast, the government of nearby Mexico City is taking almost no action, and the Mexican Federal government is even worse.

In general, Pachuca's excellent response has allowed me to quickly build a decent food reserve for a lockdown situation, just in case.

Well, I am just hoping for the best while I prepare my family and myself for the worst.

It's very important to avoid touching our eyes, nose and mouth, keep distance from other people, wash hands constantly and breath loads and loads of clean and fresh air.

Good luck everyone!


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## Ban (Mar 22, 2020)

Negatives:
1. Coughed my lungs out ten times over
2. Family stuck halfway across the world under military lockdown. No airplanes. 
3. Family works in healthcare (IC) . Not yet, but might soon be overwhelmed.
4. Elderly community in a heavy-industrial region. Potential disaster.

Positives
1. Government (Netherlands) got its act together and work admirably. 
2. Illness (doubt it could be anything other than covid-19 given symptoms and length of illness) has forced my day-night rhythm into reset. Used to sleep at 5-6 in the night, now I wake up at 5-6.
3. Lenient University


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## skip.knox (Mar 22, 2020)

Ban Here I am a writer and I can't find adequate words, all I can do is send you best wishes and positive vibes. I'm glad you can find positives.


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## Ban (Mar 22, 2020)

skip.knox said:


> Ban Here I am a writer and I can't find adequate words, all I can do is send you best wishes and positive vibes. I'm glad you can find positives.


"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters" - Epictetus

These are 'interesting times' as the old curse calls them, but it's surprising how quickly one adjusts. In the scheme of things I'm still beyond lucky with little to complain and much to appreciate, but I will be honest that I had a moment or two where I felt awful these past days, not just for now but for what I'm afraid might come. I recommend everyone take their time with those feelings as they come. 

Thank you Skip, I appreciate the kind words and I send them back to you and everyone else on this forum.


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## Aldarion (Mar 23, 2020)

skip.knox said:


> I'm not scared or even worried. I'm quite certain that it's going to get pretty bad here in the USA because we have spent the past forty years gutting our health care system and our social services, and are now led by a delusional fool who has surrounded himself with fools. So we're in for a rough time. In genuinely bad times, you don't worry, you dig in.



With respect, but you had been led by delusional fools for the last 50 years or so (ever since Eisenhower left office, _at the very least_). Speaking of which, our own delusional fools surprised me - they actually proved to be capable of doing _something_. Not as much as they should have, perhaps, and definitely less and slower than they could have, but they at least introduced some coherent measures. So situation in Croatia is not _that_ bad, just middling compared to some other countries. We are definitely no China or Russia, though.

Ban Good luck, and as my late grandmother would have recommended, garlic and olive oil.


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## Prince of Spires (Mar 23, 2020)

For me personally, it feels like life has slowed down a bit. Impossible work deadlines have been postponed or canceled and a lot of the work now is just finishing things up. And, with working from home added in, my day starts later than before and ends earlier. Taking care of the kids takes a bit of juggling now that schools and daycare are closed. But so far I can manage. 

I almost wonder if it's a bit like what writing full time would be like. Make the kids disappear in the morning, sit behind a computer and do stuff, make the kids reappear. 

The great unknown for me at the moment is that my wife is a gynacologist. Though most of it has passed her by until now, she will get caught up in the whole treatment of corona patients at some point in the near future I'm sure. We'll see how it goes.


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## Miles Lacey (Mar 23, 2020)

Down here in New Zealand the government announced the entire country is going into lock down from Wednesday local time.  We will only be allowed to leave home if we go exercising on our own, to get groceries or go to an essential service like the welfare office.  Both the police and the military will be out to enforce this lock down.  So, for the next four weeks, I will be confined to a tiny fibreglass box on wheels for the most part.  The reality of this is just starting to hit home now.

It's been crazy today.  Panic buying in the supermarkets that got so bad they had to close.  Deserted streets that I was able to walk down the middle of without seeing, let alone being hit by, a car.  It's surreal.  If I ever have kids (unlikely considering I'm 50 and single) this will definitely be something worth telling them about.


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## Prince of Spires (Mar 23, 2020)

Miles Lacey said:


> If I ever have kids ... this will definitely be something worth telling them about.


I'm very curious how they experience this and what they will remember. My oldest is 5. And she realizes something strange is going on. School is closed, her father is working from home all the time, she's not allowed to visit friends and so on. We explained what's going on as best we could, but it will be interesting to see how she'll remember this whole episode. It must be a weird experience for her. 

The youngest is 3, which is still a pretty oblivious age. Stuff might be weird, but that probably goes for most of her life. And her parents will sort it out...


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## Sheilawisz (Mar 24, 2020)

Hello and my best wishes for everyone!

Ban, I am very sad and sorry that most likely you have been infected with the new virus. I live with chronic cough and I know how painful it can be, and yet I know that the severe dry cough caused by this disease can be much worse. I am also saddened to hear that your family is stranded so far from home, and exposed to the danger as well.

I am not a particularly religious person, but I'll be praying, in my own way, for you and your family.

Stay as safe as you can, everyone!

I am sure that there are plenty of mild and very mild cases of Covid-19 that are not counted officially, so the real fatality rates must be significantly lower than the most alarming figures coming from Italy and Spain at the moment. The problem is that this bug is super contagious, and a very important number of patients end up in need of hospitalization and even ICUs to have a chance.

We have some members living at NYC and New York state. They are in a particularly dangerous situation, since the city is very hard hit and the predictions for the state are bleak at best.

Good luck everyone, spend your money wisely and may something up there help us all.


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## Miles Lacey (Mar 24, 2020)

It just got real now here in New Zealand.  State of emergency declared.  Businesses closing down.  Tomorrow it'll be a full lock down.


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## Sheilawisz (Mar 25, 2020)

Miles, so far I have not interacted much with you here in Mythic Scribes, but you have been a good member of the community all this time and you are very appreciated. 

Good luck man, stay as safe as possible this thing is very serious, we all wish and pray that New Zealand is not going to get hit as hard as other countries right now.

The best foods to keep at home are rice, beans, lentils, canned sardine and popcorn, cooking oil, enough water and a supply of basic medicines are great too.

Hugs from Mexico, stay strong!


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## Devor (Mar 25, 2020)

Ban, I've been praying regularly for your community, I guess now that you're sick I'll pray for their physical health as well.

  



Duude, a dry hacking cough is the worst. You'll get through this. Your body will figure out how to kick some viral butt.

I live in New Jersey, just out of New York City, where my wife was commuting to work before working from home.  We're two steps behind NYC in the number of infections, and one step ahead of them in preparedness.  Our schools shut down the same day as NYC's, but here we were so prepared that I have many, many packets of at-home assignments my kids have to complete, right down to popping online daily for attendance while NYC kids get to run amok. It's been a lot to handle but my family is equipped to handle this - my wife has a fair amount of job security, and I've already been home for the kids.  But a lot of people are really going to struggle with these lockdowns, having to manage a viral disease, children off of school, isolation, work or sudden unemployment, it can be a lot.

As I understand it - and information is changing daily now - South Korea has done wide scale testing and found their fatality rate from this disease to be 0.8%.  That number will go up wherever the hospitals get overrun the way Italy has.  And no matter what we do at least 20% of the population is likely to catch it, but that number could be as high as 50% if we ignore the problem.  That means the best case scenario with social distancing is for half a million people to die in the US, with similar numbers in Europe and elsewhere. Even though some groups of people are in a lot more danger than others, there are still going to be thousands of young and healthy people who are killed by this.

I have family that I'm terrified for, especially my mom, who's slowly gotten old, smoked half her life, is on blood thinners, and has struggled with other recent health problems.  If something happens I can't even go down to see her.


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## Miles Lacey (Mar 25, 2020)

Thanks, Sheilawisz. 

In many ways, New Zealand is lucky because workers are still being paid via a wage subsidy to employers.  Social welfare benefits were increased.  People will not be required to pay their mortgages until June.  Public transport is now free albeit on Sunday timetables.  We've got 203 cases of the coronavirus and, so far, no one has died from it yet.  

For me, I'm worried about being able to get to the shops to get groceries as I don't drive.  The nearest bus stop is 2km from where I live.  The nearest shop is 4km away.  Will I be stopped by the police or military?  To me, the idea of soldiers on the streets is scary and not something I feel comfortable with even if I do understand why it's happening.  

I just noticed something.  I live near an expressway that is normally quite noisy.  It is absolutely quiet.  So quiet that my ears are hurting!


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## Ban (Mar 25, 2020)

Let's be honest, the disease is scary. No one wants to risk slowly choking to death, no one wants to suffer for days at a time, that's a horrendous death. However, YOU are probably going to get through it. I've been having a bad time, but I will also get through it with little harm done. We should continue to speak our minds and air our fears, but now is more importantly the time to worry about others.

Across the world travellers and workers abroad are stuck without room and board, without food and water in some cases. I am trying to convince my family to stay put and not try to travel back to prevent them from these horror situations.

Think also of the elderly and sickly who will feel isolated in the weeks and months to come. Call them, message them, volunteer, fulfill your moral duty towards them. You can be at home and still do good.

 If you have family or friends working in medicine, tell them not to lie to themselves or put on a tough front. If they're sick, they should stay home despite what they're told by their company or government. An awful amount of doctors and nurses, young and old, have already died due to the virus. We don't know if prolonged exposure significantly increases viral load, but we do know that stress is a brutal killer. Medical professionals signed up to aid others, not to give their lives for us. Despite your own fears, take care of them, and take care of all other people working in essential industries.

Don't get frustrated with deliverymen or supermarket workers. Their work is essential and your suffering is minor in the scheme of things.

I may be preaching to the choir, but it needs to be said. Air your fears, and put your fear aside folks. We won't be fine, but we are better off than many. Stay civil, think of the vulnerable.


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## CupofJoe (Mar 25, 2020)

At the place I work, This morning they have sent round an email asking people to volunteer to help the NHS, Government, who ever needs it. We have secure building, great comms, lots of computers and people who understand data. The labs are being turned over to testing and facilities like the Sports centre turned over for emergency use. I'd volunteer but I'm also in a vulnerable group so have to stay away from others.
The people I see [from a safe distance on my one daily walk] are actually friendly and say hello.
The weather is cold but bright so you see a lot of washing out drying.


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## The Blue Lotus (Mar 25, 2020)

Shelia, I've been sick for going on three weeks now. 
I wish I knew what I have, but when I called about getting a test run I was told my city/state here in the good 'ole US of A doesn't have any. (At that time) 
Since then, I have recalled and was told unless I traveled recently OR have had direct contact with someone who has already tested positive I don't meet the criteria to get tested. 
Since I'm in the very high-risk group, as are 3/4 of my household you'd think they would at least want to see me... NOPE. (They had yet to have a KNOWN case here in town at this point. 2 weeks later we have over 12 in town and more in the towns near us.)
I was told that unless I had trouble breathing to just self-care at home. With my Dad who has end-stage COPD, my three-year-old and a partner with severe asthma who works in the food industry, He can't get excused from work as they are now considered "essential workers" unless I or someone in the house tests positive. So, while he may not have it, or might be Asymptomatic, he's out there making food for people, covered in my germs... >.> 

So, I'm fairly sure that we have a lot more cases than we know about, people are sick and people are dying and it's being attributed to just about anything else _but_ what it is. Some experts put the numbers of each at about 10x higher than reported here in the states.

This really raises my hackles. 

While it's true 80% of the population will probably contract this, and only a small number will have serious issues from it. I can say, that I have every symptom they tell you to look at for. And I feel like death warmed twice. 
My advice is to not be "that guy" and STAY HOME! 

I won't get into politics because I can't even pretend to be nice about my views anymore. Charity, in this regard, went out the window last week.

At this point, I just want to feel human again, and I want TP and flour and I want everyone to stay healthy. PLEASE. 

XOXO TBL


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## Devor (Mar 25, 2020)

I just found out that one of my wife’s coworkers has tested positive and is now feverish. There’s a high chance that my wife was exposed before they started working from home. Some of my kids have very mild coughs, so I’m getting nervous to say the least.


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## The Blue Lotus (Mar 25, 2020)

Devor said:


> I just found out that one of my wife’s coworkers has tested positive and is now feverish. There’s a high chance that my wife was exposed before they started working from home. Some of my kids have very mild coughs, so I’m getting nervous to say the least.


OH NO! I will keep a candle lit for you guys. For all of us really...
These are very trying times.  Stay safe man. 
XOXO TBL


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## Orc Knight (Mar 25, 2020)

Damn Dev. Be well.

Unlike mot y'all, I'm still out and about due to my job. I am spending a lot of time disinfecting restrooms and running all over parks because people still need at least one outlet before stir crazy sets in. I'm also flagged as an Essential Worker, so no matter the emergencies I'm out in some form doing something for the area. Nothing hit in the local area yet, but we're waiting. Expecting lockdown's soon but not sure how much it'll effect me. Depending on what happens I'm likely to still be out there.

Traffic has improved considerably though. Which makes my job easier as a whole.


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## Miles Lacey (Mar 25, 2020)

Devor said:


> I just found out that one of my wife’s coworkers has tested positive and is now feverish. There’s a high chance that my wife was exposed before they started working from home. Some of my kids have very mild coughs, so I’m getting nervous to say the least.



A mild cough is nothing to be concerned about.  At the moment authorities worldwide won't test unless you get a fever.  That is the symptom that warns if you have the virus.  But do self-isolate just to be safe.


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## ThinkerX (Mar 26, 2020)

Essential service here - rural mail delivery.  Repeated notifications from my bosses - many of whom isolated themselves years ago behind an impenetrable internet bureaucratic firewall - is that I *MUST* show up for work regardless.  Several confirmed cases in my general area, several sick people on the route (normal, collectively they get a pharmacy's worth of med's each month (elderly snowbirds).  More, about half of them regard the 'delusional fool' running the country as the best leader ever and is doing a fantastic job of handling the crises.

My attitude is...'meh, whatever.'  Aches and pains and sniffles are the norm with me anymore, with occasional ventures into more serious ailments.  No social life to speak of prior to the plague, though I do miss visiting the library and movie theater (both closed)

My lovely young daughter, though...a couple years ago I brought her on part time because she needed stable, flexible employment, and I'd been doing six days a week non stop for most of a decade and decided I could use a couple days off each week.  She gave birth to grandson number two right before the New Year...and came back to work last week, right as things went wonky.  She's freaked - needs the money, paranoid about the baby, and, alas, it shows.  

Like Skip, I am under no delusions about how this is going to go; various 'entrenched interests' would sooner see...a...'permanent state of emergency' complete with shortages and massive social unrest rather than enact needed social and financial reforms.  Said reforms will be a major topic in months and years to come...and a few piecemeal bits and pieces may come to pass, but don't hold your breath.  

It's almost like the prequel to one of the big time teen hero dystopian novels, but I can't figure which one...Hunger Games, maybe?


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## The Blue Lotus (Mar 26, 2020)

Honesty time: If you disagree that's fine, but there's no need to get rude or even comment. It won't change my mind at this point and will cause unneeded tensions.

I have struggled with this year's election. Who do I vote for?
IMHO none of the options are fantastic, again... Corporate Cheese, Crackpot or Amnesia man.
However, after seeing medical staff donning cut up trash bags in what can only be described as a desperate act of self-protection, after talking with friends who are still active in the medical field and hearing first hand how they are reusing protective masks, sharing them with patients, and other staff...
I decided to go against everything within my being and selected to "vote blue no matter who."
And as much as it makes me ill to say, Sanders is my first choice. Being he's the only one with anything that resembles a plan to try and correct our current healthcare system. (Yes, it is _extremely_ flawed atm.) But it's a start...

Now, don't go branding me some off the wall socialist, because nothing could be farther from the truth. But dang! We HAVE to do better by our people, by the people who put their lives on the line, and that of their families when the chips are down.

I put countless hours in researching the options, I listened to everything everyone had to say and after everything I have learned, heard, and seen I have to do what I feel is _best for everyone._ Not just big companies, not just the wealthy, not just the poor, or the slightly disenfranchised, but for every last man woman and child in this and other countries that rely on us to help keep the world safe from the various threats.
Why are we offering help to North Korea when Italy _needs_ our help so much more? 

Why are people without health insurance right now when Obama gave us something to work with? So now those who have fallen ill face massive bills they can never hope to pay off.
If our poor are unable to seek medical treatment, because they simply cannot afford it, especially in a crisis such as this, when our leaders are dropping the ball at every turn, ALL of them, when our people are doing their level best and the big wigs get bailouts while they get evicted...
I just cannot abide by that.
The status quo must change, and while Sanders is radical, there are enough NON-radicals to keep him in check. Or so I feel.

I implore everyone to take a very hard look at what is going on and make their own decisions based on cold hard facts as well.
We cannot keep going on like this.
We live in AMERICA, one of the richest countries on the face of the Earth and there are people begging for food on Facebook because their jobs are now gone, and they don't yet qualify for food assistance. They are willing to risk someone spiking the food they will feed their kids with drugs, or worse, they are willing to risk letting someone in who could be a murder, they are willing to risk an infection just to get by.
Families cannot afford medications, basic bills, health insurance, college educations for their children.

People like myself are struggling with which bill to pay, and the stress is killing them.
I wish I lived an extravagant lifestyle, where simply cutting a few extras would solve it.
The only "extra" I have is the internet. Without it, my phone does not work where we live. Changing to another carrier is out of the question as we have the cheapest option available.

I'm not sure HOW we as a nation got here, but here we are.

So I guess I will put off voting for Mickey Mouse this time around.
I hope you do too. Please get out there and vote with your heart and your head. Not based solely upon a set party line. Whomever it is you chose, at least you have a say.
The time for sitting silent has long past, it is time we rise up and try to make the changes TOGETHER that "we the people" need so urgently.


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## Prince of Spires (Mar 26, 2020)

The Blue Lotus said:


> Now, don't go branding my some off the wall socialist,


Being European, I always have to laugh a bit at this US view of politics. From my perspective, in the USA you have a choice between right wing politicians (the democrats) or politicians further to the right (the republicans). There's nothing close to socialist, from a European perspective that is. Sanders I think would be in the political center in the Netherlands.

If you want socialists, two elections ago, here in the Netherlands we had our socialist party propose a 100% tax rate on all income over something like €200k.

As a side note, there's nothing wrong with right wing politics (it's where I tend to vote myself). I was pointing at the difference perspective makes.


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## Ban (Mar 26, 2020)

The Blue Lotus said:


> The status quo must change, and while Sanders is radical, there are enough NON-radicals to keep him in check. Or so I feel.



I truly don't get this narrative. Sanders would be moderate left in nearly all of the West. He's not even a socialist as he claims to be, he's a social democrat, the most internationally mainstream of mainstream left.

But while we're on the topic of politics, I want it to be clear that from our perspective, the USA does not need to be the world's provider, we don't want it to be, and it hasn't been for a long while. Italy has sent help to the US during this Corona crisis in the form of tests, not the other way around. I don't like bi-partisanship, but the only thing the USA has done for us in Europe during all of this is try to hog a vaccine being produced in Germany. It's about time the Western saviour complex should be focused internally. Your country has structural issues needing fixing and I'm entirely with you on that path, but don't use the 'leader of the free world' crap to rally folks, people are through with it over the ocean, because in practice it hasn't lead to any measurable good in more than 20 years. Just a whole lot of economic ups and downs and being dragged into wars.

Excuse me moderators if that's too political, but I feel like a bit of politics should be permissible in response to a political comment, especially on a loaded thread like this. If you don't agree, my apologies.


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## Devor (Mar 26, 2020)

One of the reasons politics is banned on this site is so that Mythic Scribes can be a sanctuary from the bitterness that comes with it.

There are people who would like to come to this thread and talk about the way Covid19 is affecting them. Some of them may not, now, because the thread has become political, because it’s now reminding them of their political angst, because it’s become unpleasant.

If there is another political post I will be locking this thread and restarting the discussion on Covid19.

Please cooperate with our policies.


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## Belmonty8 (Mar 26, 2020)

The world is passing a very hard time because of Covid 19 attack.


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## Maker of Things Not Kings (Mar 26, 2020)

Devor said:


> I have family that I'm terrified for, especially my mom, who's slowly gotten old, smoked half her life, is on blood thinners, and has struggled with other recent health problems. If something happens I can't even go down to see her.



Same here. My mother lives in PA, suffers from COPD and congestive heart failure and is also on blood thinners (lifetime of smoking until she was 60) and recently diagnosed with diabetes. Just saw I_ could_ fly home right now, roundtrip from Oregon, for 207$! But I won't risk it. She's holding her own but the fact she can't get groceries is really making her and many other seniors and homebound adults nervous. I'm ordering things for her once a week but even the delivery service is overrun now so her cousin goes and picks them up at the store every sunday. Of course, they don't have everything she wants each week and, as a lifelong virtuoso of impatience,  that makes her soooo mad.   I tell her that anger means she must still be doing ok. She's always been a fighter!  

So far our rural county still has 0 confirmed cases after 70 tests. Our city councils have banned all tourists from coming over from the valley, closed all campgrounds, hotels, parks and waysides, Air B&B and short term rentals too.  It's not a full lockdown, but close. 

Stay strong everyone!


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## Incanus (Mar 26, 2020)

So far, so good, for me.

My family is OK for now, but most of us work in health care in one way or another.  We'll have to be careful.

My work was supposed to go to 4 hour days, with 4 hours telework, but the paperwork got messed up and we haven't started that yet.  But we changed our hours, which is messing with my sleep, which means I can't write.  I need a clear head to write.  I already self-isolate much of the time, so there isn't too much change there.

Anyway, I recommend following the advice of health professionals.  In the meantime, stay safe and healthy, everyone!


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## The Blue Lotus (Mar 26, 2020)

Did anyone else get the postcard this week? Wonder how much that cost to send one of those to every address in the nation? 
The upside, Gizmo showed interest in trying to read, we (I) have been working on sight words this week. He managed to remember 3 of the 8 we studied!  If, you, & and are the ones he got correct. Also, More and Weekend, though I think he's just remembered that one rather than reading it tbh. 
YAY! So I'm a proud mommy atm!
The upside of being stuck at home, is I'm here to really work with him. But I worry I'm pushing him too hard sometimes. he's only three... 
What are other people who are now homeschooling their little ones working on? 
I'd love to hear from you.


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## Aidan of the tavern (Mar 26, 2020)

Sorry to hear you've been unwell, Blue Lotus, but I'm glad to see you still gracing the Scriptorium.

Good luck and health to you all.


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## The Blue Lotus (Mar 27, 2020)

Thanks Aidan, it's gonna take more than a Chinese bug named after a Mexican beer to take me out, I hope. But if not, I want that on my tombstone! Lol. Stat safe kiddo. Good to see you again!


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## The Blue Lotus (Mar 27, 2020)

Devor, it's times like this when I'm so glad we moved my dad in with us a few years back. 

We are looking for a bigger place so we can move my partner's dad in as well. 

Having the grandfather's around has been wonderful,  they help keep an eye on Gizmo, and teach him things we can't and we get to keep our eyes on them! 

Financially, it's a strain, but we make it work. 
I now understand why so much of the world choses to live in extended family homes! 

We will keep your mom, and everyone else's, in our thoughts. 
Hugs.


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## Demesnedenoir (Mar 27, 2020)

Honestly, if not for the empty shelves at the stores and all the doomsday hype, I wouldn’t have noticed a thing... hell, if I were single and in my writing cave I might not have even noticed until my next book is done, LOL. With schools closed, the kids at home all day is a reminder that something is up in the outside world.


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## Ned Marcus (Mar 27, 2020)

Long long lines where I am (starting 2.5 hours before shops open) for masks. I honestly don't want, and often cannot, spend that much time queuing. Toilet rolls are in short supply too, but otherwise it's fairly normal, apart from everywhere being quieter.


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## Azeroth (Mar 28, 2020)

I think people are starting to become stir-crazy, I can hear people yelling and carrying on, they sound drunk. Having to stay indoors doesn't bother me all. It's not really much different than what I'd be doing anyway  it's those obnoxious, social animals that are the most dangerous in spreading the virus, especially if they don't care. Sadly, a lot of people don't unless they are affected or know somebody who can be affected by this. I can't say I have any faith in humanity, when you witness people partying or see footage of people spitting on produce. I don't even have to bring up the political side of it, as its only a symptom of a very messed up world full of messed up people. 

In Australia, and across the globe I suspect, many complain of "draconian measures" top stop the spread. Had people had common sense and did the "right thing", those measures wouldn't have to be put in place to begin with. Society hangs itself, the Government merely gives it the rope. I don't mean to be all doom and gloom, I'm just frustrated with humanity. I'm a writer (albeit amateur writer) that does not grasp the stupidity sometimes. I don't _understand people_, despite writing stories. 

I do not understand why the richest countries in the world are not equipped to deal with it. I'm not talking on a medical level, I'm talking _every_ level. The Australian government had a stimulus package ready in case of emergencies, but I'm not sure if simply throwing money at something is enough to fix the problem. In fact, I think this attitude people have is the problem in itself.

But I will stop there, at the risk of bringing this into the realm of politics.  on a positive note, it has helped to spark some creativity and a desire to begin writing again after a four month lull.


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## Maker of Things Not Kings (Mar 28, 2020)

Azeroth said:


> I do not understand why the richest countries in the world are not equipped to deal with it. I'm not talking on a medical level, I'm talking _every_ level.



I think this to comes down to a lack of any sort of awareness and readiness on a personal/individual level too.

 I can recall, as a child, my grandparents had a room in the basement we called the _spare room._ In addition to the garden tools and lanterns and the such, it had shelves filled with canned food, peanut butter, tea bags, flour and sugar etc. like a small grocery store. There were also jars of all sorts of things my grandmother canned and put up each year. They grew up through the WWI/Influenza outbreak and then the US Great Depression so it was considered common sense to be ready for any potentially lean times. They also paid cash for everything and never ran a credit line in their entire lives.

My mother, who was a child of the era of household convenience, was taught this same way of doing things though she, like most kids, rejected a lot of that common sense as old fashioned. She had a sensible approach to credit and saved money.

Then I came along and thought I knew better. Saved little, charged a lot. I Learned the hard way and realize now that my grandparents had so much of it right and  now live like they did.

And here, two generations later, we have people who are running revolving debt, cannot save a dime and never think about the possibility of short supply or not being able to do what they want every day.  And we are a culture of extremes.

Preppers would tell you they can outlast the apocalypse but many of them are more concerned with the optics of being a prepper than just the sensibility of being somewhat better equipped to handle a change in day to day life. My grandparents certainly never bragged about their practical readiness. When i was a kid,  in the 80's, we once had three feet of snow over two days and couldn't get out of the house for nearly a week, we never even gave it a second thought.

I'm just old enough to remember:  Banks giving as much as 6 and 7% annual interest TO YOU for saving money. Rabbit ear antennas and TV that you had to get up and change the channel  manually to switch to any of the four or five stations that came in somewhat clear enough to see. Adjusting the horizontal and vertical hold while moving said antenna around. The first, bulky, microwave ovens. Rotary phones, answering machines with a tape in them. The days of no personal calls at work, let alone cell phones, and payphones on every other street corner. Mix tapes you had to have two tape recorders to make and making electronic music with a Moog, early MIDI and an Atari computer that had a whopping 1 MB of RAM onboard (that WAS futuristic then by the way! )  Cars before power steering and braking were standard. Knowing the bus routes in my city by number as well as every stop by site. Memorizing all of your friend's phone numbers. Pumping gas before safety valves kept the gas tank from overfilling and dowsing you with gasoline. People syphoning gas from one tank to put in another with their mouth and a hose. Riding as a child in my mother's car with no seat belts or child seats. My grandmother grinding meat to make sausage or nuts for a pastry in a rotary, hand grinder and kneading all of her dough by hand.  Ribbon manual typewriters! (Still have one of those to this day!)

That was all NORMAL and part of every day life once.

My point is that the world changes so fast and while i appreciate soooo much of our modern world, there is no doubt it has made us less capable to handle anything that our ancestors would have called slightly less than "normal life".  Dealing with scarcity. Living within our means. Frugality.

 Right now, I'm glad that I figured that all out more than a decade ago and I find myself not wanting to think about where I'd be if I were still that 20 something kid who had no clue what my spending habits, credit debt and carefree, live-for-today lifestyle would reveal about my perpetual vulnerability in such a crisis. I'm not knocking people here, just realizing how the lull of complacency and the sense of security that our modern world of accessibility and ready-availability has created may not be so great for many folks in the end.


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## ThinkerX (Mar 28, 2020)

Maker of Things Not Kings said:


> I can recall, as a child, my grandparents had a room in the basement we called the _spare room._ In addition to the garden tools and lanterns and the such, it had shelves filled with canned food, peanut butter, tea bags, flour and sugar etc. like a small grocery store. There were also jars of all sorts of things my grandmother canned and put up each year. They grew up through the WWI/Influenza outbreak and then the US Great Depression so it was considered common sense to be ready for any potentially lean times. They also paid cash for everything and never ran a credit line in their entire lives.



That was the 'root cellar' in the Alaskan Homestead I grew up on.  Fell into the 'common sense' category as we were (and are) at the end of an occasionally disrupted supply chain. Root cellar is still there, still stocked with plenty of canned goods.  My parents (the homesteaders) did take up credit cards later in life; Dad had some convoluted investment/credit scheme going (never did figure out all the details) that brought him a tidy income on top of his retirement.

Me...well, in my youth, despite having a steady job, I actually had a credit cart application rejected (yes, that sort of thing used to happen back in the dark ages.)  I also paid cash for pretty much everything save utility bills and a couple other things.  Didn't get my first 'regular' credit card until *after* I built the house (had a seldom used gas card before that).  These days, I have three of the suckers, two for work (technically I am a small business). I also keep enough canned/dry food on hand to last a couple months if need be (though after the first month, it looks like pancakes, soup, and tea will be the dominant menu items.

More on point...Governor issued a statewide 'shelter in place' edict that takes effect today...which doesn't affect me all that much.  Lots of empty spots on the grocery store shelves.  And since my job is essential, I get to venture out into the world.


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## Miles Lacey (Mar 28, 2020)

We have nine people in our bubble.  Three live in houses, three live in converted buses, two live in caravans (I am one of them) and one lives in a tent.   

As I can't drive I either have to travel with someone or walk to go to the nearest shop which is 4 km away.  I choose a route that keeps contact with other people to a minimum though it''s not the shortest route.

On the whole people people are doing what they are supposed to during the lock down and (remarkably) they are doing the social distancing thing.   For me the lock down has been great.  Free public transport to the end of June, near empty streets, no long queues, no one harassing me about being unemployed and for once doing nothing is considered doing my patriotic duty!

Only one thing bothers me: the snitchIng culture that''s emerging.  Everyone is nervous but it''s not because of the coronavirus (in which the latest stats are 416 infected, 50 recoveries and no deaths as of 9.00am March 29th, 2020 NZDST) but the constant fear of being informed upon even when you're out and about legitimately.  I don't like the snitching culture.


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## Miles Lacey (Mar 28, 2020)

Update: We just had our first death in New Zealand.  She was in her early 70s and lived in an isolated part of the West Coast of the South Island.  Now it''s getting real for people here.


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## ThinkerX (Mar 28, 2020)

Miles Lacey said:


> We have nine people in our bubble. Three live in houses, three live in converted buses, two live in caravans (I am one of them) and one lives in a tent.
> 
> As I can't drive I either have to travel with someone or walk to go to the nearest shop which is 4 km away. I choose a route that keeps contact with other people to a minimum though it''s not the shortest route.



Okay, now I'm curious:

'bubble' = 'commune?' or something else?

'can't drive?' never learned, or?


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## Azeroth (Mar 28, 2020)

Maker of Things Not Kings said:


> I think this to comes down to a lack of any sort of awareness and readiness on a personal/individual level too.
> 
> I can recall, as a child, my grandparents had a room in the basement we called the _spare room._ In addition to the garden tools and lanterns and the such, it had shelves filled with canned food, peanut butter, tea bags, flour and sugar etc. like a small grocery store. There were also jars of all sorts of things my grandmother canned and put up each year. They grew up through the WWI/Influenza outbreak and then the US Great Depression so it was considered common sense to be ready for any potentially lean times. They also paid cash for everything and never ran a credit line in their entire lives.
> 
> ...



Excellent post! I agree with everything here. My late mother had that old school way of thinking. Instead of "wasting" money she budgeted and got bargains, had the pantry stocked with tinned goods. She even hoarded cash, had a hidden spot that she kept from my dad. One day when they truly needed it she whipped it out and said, "I saved it for a rainy day."

Still, those who are in charge of countries (governments, being really careful not to bring politics into it but it's virtually impossible sometimes ugh!) are often from the "old school" stock. Men and women in their 50's and 60's, some older, did not foresee and generally, _don't_ foresee crisis events such as this. I live in Australia. A couple of months before the pandemic hit we had our own problems, in the form of bushfires. We weren't prepared for that either. I live in a country that should be equipped across all boards, be it financially or medically. The government has spent its time in office cutting jobs in the public sector, which includes hospitals and social services, and are now overloaded because of Covid 19. America has had something to similar happen, and it's because all these leaders think about is the economy and money. Hell, Trump expects everybody back to work, business as usual by Easter. Nope, not being political. Trying not to be, in any case! Just making an observation here -- this obsession and value put to money, which btw, is fast becoming literally non existent (a number on a screen somewhere) is half the problem. Many people aren't in a position to save money or buy extra tin food for that "rainy day". Then again they probably could if they weren't busy chasing every shiny new gadget on the market, or that 10 dollar avocado latte before work every day.


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## Miles Lacey (Mar 28, 2020)

ThinkerX said:


> Okay, now I'm curious:
> 
> 'bubble' = 'commune?' or something else?
> 
> 'can't drive?' never learned, or?



Bubble - The term used in New Zealand to describe the people you live with including (in some cases) the neighbours.  
Can't drive because I suffer epileptic absence seizures.


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## ThinkerX (Mar 28, 2020)

Miles Lacey said:


> Bubble - The term used in New Zealand to describe the people you live with including (in some cases) the neighbors.



Gotcha.  Here, that'd likely be interpreted as 'commune' (communal living, often of a religious nature)


> Can't drive because I suffer epileptic absence seizures.



That sucks. The brother of one of my daughter's old BF's had epileptic seizures.  The last one killed him about four years ago.


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## Devor (Mar 29, 2020)

Azeroth said:


> The government has spent its time in office cutting jobs in the public sector, which includes hospitals and social services, and are now overloaded because of Covid 19. America has had something to similar happen, and it's because all these leaders think about is the economy and money. Hell, Trump expects everybody back to work, business as usual by Easter. Nope, not being political. Trying not to be, in any case! Just making an observation here -- this obsession and value put to money, which btw, is fast becoming literally non existent (a number on a screen somewhere) is half the problem. Many people aren't in a position to save money or buy extra tin food for that "rainy day". Then again they probably could if they weren't busy chasing every shiny new gadget on the market, or that 10 dollar avocado latte before work every day.



You can’t just say something like that and not expect a response... who is making avocado lattes?! That sounds both unnatural and amazing.


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## Maker of Things Not Kings (Mar 29, 2020)

ThinkerX said:


> Root cellar is still there, still stocked with plenty of canned goods.



That makes me happy!   Alaskan homesteading! That's true old school.  

I recall the excitement of being approved for my first credit card. Yes, that was in the days when you were as likely to get turned down! It was a Sears card. Came with a 100 dollar limit! Still I remember feeling like it was such a big deal to get it.  

Today, we DO use them, but pay them off each month (also self employed / small business only on those)  and do our best to save money, not spend it. Your dad sounds like my one great uncle, though my uncle never found his _thing  and _was always onto the next big money making idea.



Azeroth said:


> this obsession and value put to money, which btw, is fast becoming literally non existent (a number on a screen somewhere) is half the problem.



Agreed! Admittedly,  I have had my own obsessions with money but have tried to turn them into fun ways to save. I owned a coffeeshop for about 8 years ( which was a cash-only business even well into the 2000's) and I would save every two dollar bill that came through the register. Once people knew I did that, they would bring them in whenever they got their hands on one and spend it so, over time, I accumulated nearly $800 worth of them. Ten years after I sold it, I still have them all tucked away in a cigar box which, when I peek at it on occasion feels really good to know its there if i need it. I did the same thing with US silver dollars for awhile but they're just too heavy to hoard and not in circulation at all anymore it seems. lol

I also would allow people from other countries to pay with their own currency if they happened to have it on them and then I'd pin it up on the wall behind the counter. By the time i sold the place, I had paper currency up there from about sixty countries, including the most beautiful but rarely seen Antarctica currency (that was a loaner from a guy in the neighborhood and I had to give it back when I sold the shop.) 



Azeroth said:


> She even hoarded cash, had a hidden spot that she kept from my dad. One day when they truly needed it she whipped it out and said, "I saved it for a rainy day."



I love that. My grandfather was famous for it too, After he died, we found money stashed in places where no one knew he had put it. Up in the rafters, in pockets of his church suit coat, behind cupboards, in a hat box. Still, to this day, my mother who still lives in that house asks at least once a year, "Do you think there's anywhere else he might have hidden some?" 



Devor said:


> who is making avocado lattes?! That sounds both unnatural and amazing.



 I'm not sure about the idea of avocado lattes but I do recall a coffeeshop in New York city that was also a _Toast Cafe_ where you could get a single slice of homemade bread, whipped butter and perfect, sliced avocado — for $9. Could the 10$ avocado latte have been far behind?


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## skip.knox (Mar 29, 2020)

It's worth saying that a society cannot conduct business as if the world was going to blow up at any moment. We can't build hospitals with thousands of empty beds just in case a once-in-a-century plague might come along, nor can we staff them that way.

We could organize society such that the government could at any moment put us into effective quarantine, shut down services at will, and so on, but doing so has serious implications on personal freedom and the very nature of society itself. 

I say this only to point out that it's easy to say "oh our leaders are selfish idiots."  That's certainly true, but it is insufficient as an explanation or even as a criticism. We've had idiots before (though I have to admit the current crop is horrifying). This pandemic to me points out something we all know intuitively: there are limits to human abilities, limits to preparedness, limits to resources. We can only do our best when catastrophe arrives. 

And that's the source of my own exasperation with our leaders (I'm in the U.S.). We could be doing so much better than we are. As evidence, I can point to governors, mayors, and other executives--even a few corporate ones--who clearly are doing better. And the price for not doing better is being paid by innocents. The governor of my own state, which is a notoriously conservative one, declared a lockdown a few days ago. Late, but we've only had a comparatively few deaths (four, I think), so kudos to him. It is in the nature of humans to ignore even the raging fire until it's at the neighbor's house. It's also human nature to cry fire while it's still three valleys away. And every reaction in between.


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## Devor (Mar 29, 2020)

It’s easy for me to say that we should all be on lockdown and doing social distancing, but at the same time I’m not one of the three million people who filed unemployment last week in the US, I don’t have a business that I’m losing, or drawing on a retirement fund that’s being wiped out, I don’t live in a quaint town that’ll be changed forever as the family owned boutiques and restaurants go under. The economic devastation is real, and has consequences that may ruin lives and change communities, and when this is over things won’t just flip back, not for everyone.

I’m not saying that we shouldn’t shut down. But damn it isn’t a light and easy decision to accept.


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## Miles Lacey (Mar 29, 2020)

In New Zealand workers who can't work because of the lock down here are being given a wage subsidy of about $NZD585 / week if they work 20 hours or more a week and $NZD585 / week if they work less than 20 hours a week.  There are conditions and those who don't qualify for the wage subsidy can get the unemployment benefit.  On top of this banks have suspended mortgage repayments until about June. 

We're into Day Five of a nationwide lock down and nearly everyone has supported it because of the promotion of the idea of "Stay inside / stay alive" and the view that if we all stay inside (unless it''s to go to and from work in an essential industry, get some exercise in the local neighbourhood or to go to the doctor, chemist or supermarket) the lock down can be lifted faster.  If we do go out we are encouraged to keep our distance from others (2 metres at least).

As long as we see it as necessary we will observe it.


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## Slartibartfast (Mar 30, 2020)

This post is far too long but it’s what happens when you quarantine a writer for 12 days and stick up a thread about the situation which has them quarantined. You may want to skip to the end. Mods if this is not appropriate you have my support in deleting it.

It’s all gone weird in the UK. We’ve been on a sort-of lockdown since the 25th but I’ve been stuck inside for a week longer than that after having fun with the weirdest fever I’ve ever had. No cough but yo-yoing between being hypothermic and hyperthermic for a good few days. Was it ‘the virus’? No idea. It was _a_ virus.

The fever’s gone now but normal life has not resumed. Those over 70 or with long term medical conditions have been quarantined for 12 weeks and are not even to go out for food shopping. Everyone else is now required to stay in their own home without ‘reasonable excuse’, no more than two people can meet in a public place, and non-essential travel is banned. We are at least allowed to exercise daily outside while staying away from others. Police are now enforcing this somewhat over enthusiastically and inconsistently.

Companies can now stand employees down from work and place them in a special tax bracket - ‘on furlough’. Her Majesty’s Customs and Revenue (‘the tax man’) will be paying 80% of their salaries up to a maximum of slightly over the average wage which the employer can top up, or not. The latest information says we might be in for six months of this. Many of us are settling in at home for the long-haul.

In addition to the salary grant, businesses are being offered government backed loans, business tax bills have been deferred, and business property taxes have been cancelled for a bit. The idea being that we still have something left to go back to after this, both as individuals and as a country. The provisions have all been poorly implemented which is sort-of understandable given the time frames involved but the situation has led to redundancies and bankruptcies already. Nonetheless plenty of businesses have managed to put themselves on ice for the foreseeable future.

Some businesses may be closed and wrapped up in semi-secure hibernation but the state of many other businesses is in flux. In contrast to the pronouncement from our Prime Minister who said only essential work must be carried out, the laws that came out the next day only restrict the movement of workers whose work can be reasonably carried out at home, leaving everyone else free to go to work. Some businesses have seen demand collapse, including mine, and have placed the majority of workers on furlough. Other businesses which are still viable, especially those who are self-employed one-person operations, are trying to carry on even if their work is clearly not essential. The self-employed are eligible for similar help to furloughed employees but not until June by which point many will be in rent arrears and have other financial problems. By failing to forcibly close most businesses the government has left many individual employees being pressured by their bosses to go to a non-essential job or self-employed workers desperately trying to continue their business.

Shops have gone a bit funky, food shops are still open but with orderly queues outside. That’s how the British deal with a crisis, we form a queue. In that queue is one person per household, moving from spray painted line to spray painted line, always two metres apart. Nobody dares to cough or even clear their throat. It feels calm, orderly. At the entrance you sanitise your hands and wipe down your trolley handle before being beckoned inside by the security guard as one person leaves. One in, one out.

Shelves are starting to be restocked. Initially there was a rush of panic buying however it’s still unclear to me how much of the problem was caused by the panic buyers and how much was simply a result of people reacting reasonably to the then quarantine rules within a food supply network which uses just-in-time logistics: If a supermarket sells twice as much of a product for a week it might be three weeks before they can make up the overbuying. If the Prime Minister comes on TV and tells every household they might be quarantined for two weeks do we need panic or greed to explain shelves being emptied? Maybe millions of households who normally drop into the shop for a single meal on the way home just went and bought a reasonable amount of groceries for a week or two. Either way the system couldn’t cope.

The homeless are being housed which is good but the ease with which we accomplished this shows up the sad reason why it was never done before; we didn’t want to, there was nothing in it for us. Many in the UK, even some people in employment, have been relying on foodbanks to feed their families which is a shocking indictment of how we treat the low-waged. In the early stages of panic buying some foodbanks were robbed, others faced a lack of volunteers as elderly people went into quarantine, all of them faced a lack of donations as overbuying hit supermarkets. The system is straining and people are hurting.

We have a welfare system which is better than some, worse than others but insufficient to deal with a crisis of this magnitude and many who have fallen through the cracks of the hastily arranged safeguards like the 80% salary grant have found themselves on state benefits. A lot of those who would normally have thought themselves to be very important, and were paid accordingly, were among the first to be told that their services were no longer required and are possibly tasting the poverty line for the first time. The usual candidates for the poverty line are retail and service workers who are currently keeping us fed, supplied and connected to the world and are risking their health to work through the crisis, often for minimum wage. I anticipate a lot of difficult conversations about how we value different job roles and how we look after those who are having work or financial difficulties when this is all over.

There are positive things happening: Teachers are putting lessons up online to help parents continue their kid’s education; Hundreds of thousands of people have volunteered to offer non-clinical support to the NHS; People check on their neighbors and deliver food to quarantined friends; Books are being posted across the country, particularly to those who are on the harsher 12 week quarantine. We’ve started calling these people ‘the shielded’ which is quite nice in a probably-government-propaganda sort-of way. Even small nice things are happening, kids are putting up drawings of rainbows in their windows to try and cheer people up and adults are putting teddy bears in their windows so kids can go on a ‘bear hunt’ while they’re out exercising with their families.

The nice things cheer me but they also chill me. They feel too secure, too middle-class and I worry that we are not hearing the voices of those who are on the bottom rung in life. I worry we will only start to get a glimpse of the true cost of this when it’s over, when the true toll of this on the disadvantaged comes to light through eviction, through repossession, and through bankruptcy – simple numbers sitting as the only witness to unseen destitution and poverty. The dead and the injured are one obvious set of victims. There will be others, those whose hope is crushed, whose souls are broken, those who live under a black cloud of loneliness, of debt, of fear. I don’t have a magic fix for this but I have some hope left. Right now I hope we learn through this to be excellent to each other, to everyone.

TLDR: This is the UK. We have a virus problem.


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## Miles Lacey (Mar 30, 2020)

I've been unemployed for eleven years now.  (My writing is paid for in kind, not money.)  There is a certain malicious side to me that''s saying "Now you b'stards know what I've been putting up with for all these years" but that only emerges when I'm in a dark frame of mind.  

It''s been a weird time for me because little has changed.  Apart from the waiting outside the supermarket, standing behind lines, restrictions on certain items (esp. toilet paper, sauces, rice and kumara) and screens between checkout operators and the customers it''s pretty much life as normal.  

Around the farmlet I live on people are keeping busy but once the house truck and the toolshed is finished I think the strain will start to show.


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## ThinkerX (Mar 30, 2020)

Because of concerns about the kids, the daught


Miles Lacey said:


> I've been unemployed for eleven years now.  (My writing is paid for in kind, not money.)  There is a certain malicious side to me that''s saying "Now you b'stards know what I've been putting up with for all these years" but that only emerges when I'm in a dark frame of mind.
> 
> It''s been a weird time for me because little has changed.  Apart from the waiting outside the supermarket, standing behind lines, restrictions on certain items (esp. toilet paper, sauces, rice and kumara) and screens between checkout operators and the customers it''s pretty much life as normal.
> 
> Around the farmlet I live on people are keeping busy but once the house truck and the toolshed is finished I think the strain will start to show.


one thing I remember very clearly from the homestead days (which your 'farmlet' appears to resemble) there is *always* more work to be done.

For my part, the Daughter has opted to do the mail route only on Saturdays for a while - a short, quick, in and out day.  Partly this is justifiable fear, partly it has to do with watching over the kids.  So, I get to remain busy,


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## Miles Lacey (Mar 30, 2020)

I deal with clearing away the rubbish and putting it out for the weekly collection.  It keeps the place tidy and makes me feel useful.  The landlord''s dog is hyperactive so I walk the dog every evening.  And I clean the toilet in the communal toilet block we call the chalet, though that is because I love the smell of the citrus scented cleaner.


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## MauEvig (Apr 1, 2020)

I'm doing alright. I was freaking out because I'd recently lost my job, but the good news is I'm getting unemployment. I'm trying to get into VIP kids so I can make a living teaching English to kids in China over the internet.
I hope this all blows over soon. I'm an introvert and all, but I still like to travel and don't like being cooped up in the house too long. Summer time is fast approaching, would be sad if we had to spend the entire time indoors wouldn't it?


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## ThinkerX (Apr 1, 2020)

Miles Lacey said:


> I deal with clearing away the rubbish and putting it out for the weekly collection.  It keeps the place tidy and makes me feel useful.  The landlord''s dog is hyperactive so I walk the dog every evening.  And I clean the toilet in the communal toilet block we call the chalet, though that is because I love the smell of the citrus scented cleaner.



Lessee if these spark any memories:

1 - 

"That board straight?"

Eyes the extreme closeup near vertical view of a slab of wood reaching up approximately several miles.  "Uh, yeah, looks straight."

"Ok, hold it still while I put a nail between your fingers."  Giant nail gun fills field of vision.

KWATHAP!  "Damnit, you let it move."

2 - 

"Ok, reach over here with that plank."

Looks down from current position, six or eight feet up a wobbly ladder. "Uh..."

"Come on, don't got all day."

3 -

"You shot a whole row of nails into that siding and missed twenty seven times - I counted.":

4 -

Laying on the ground, staring at the black mass of an engine block directly overhead, straining at a bolt that appears to be welded in place. 

5 -

"Can you find me one of these on that internet deal?"  Holds out a mangled piece of metal extracted from a pump, tractor, or car.


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## Azeroth (Apr 1, 2020)

Devor said:


> You can’t just say something like that and not expect a response... who is making avocado lattes?! That sounds both unnatural and amazing.



I was being satirical. It was a play on those pumpkin spiced lattes, cross with smashed avacado on toast -- a popular combination amongst the millenial culture.


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## Azeroth (Apr 1, 2020)

skip.knox said:


> It's worth saying that a society cannot conduct business as if the world was going to blow up at any moment. We can't build hospitals with thousands of empty beds just in case a once-in-a-century plague might come along, nor can we staff them that way.



Oh I agree, the problem being that there already wasn't enough hospitals and staff _before_ this chaos began.


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## Ban (Apr 2, 2020)

Avocado lattes are definitely a real thing. Just a latte served inside a scooped out avocado.


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## Slartibartfast (Apr 2, 2020)

That sounds like something you'd order via an app on your limited edition Apple watch, whereupon a man in jeans and sandals hoverboards over to your co-working space to deliver it.


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## Ban (Apr 2, 2020)

Slartibartfast said:


> That sounds like something you'd order via an app on your limited edition Apple watch, whereupon a man in jeans and sandals hoverboards over to your co-working space to deliver it.


Only if the man also invites you to his slam poetry improv show inside a jazz cafe where kombucha will be served.


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## Slartibartfast (Apr 2, 2020)

Ban said:


> Only if the man also invites you to his slam poetry improv show inside a jazz cafe where kombucha will be served.


Ah, that could be a problem. Kombucha reacts badly with my beard oil.


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## Ban (Apr 2, 2020)

Slartibartfast said:


> Ah, that could be a problem. Kombucha reacts badly with my beard oil.


I'm sure he'll have some mate as well. Kind of want that now, but all my hipster places are closed. Tragic.


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## Orc Knight (Apr 2, 2020)

I still don't understand kombucha. I'll stick with my green and sweet tea's.


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## MauEvig (Apr 3, 2020)

People probably think I'm a total nut case, but that's fine. My opinions have never been the most popular anyway.
I feel like I'm one of the only people more afraid of the Government's control over the quarantine and the masses than the virus itself. Some governments in the world are stricter than others, as I've read here for those living in the UK, the one person in one person out rule is a lot more strict than "no more than 10 people" rule we have here in the United States.
No one's considering how quarantine is going to effect the rate of depression or the suicide rate. The anxiety could cause more heart attacks. But what are we going to blame? The virus? Or the Government order? There was a post about it on Facebook, then Facebook tried to block it saying it was "False information." But I raise an eyebrow, I'm more suspicious of the fact that Facebook is vehemently trying to block that post, than the post itself. If anyone says anything that contradicts what's on mainstream media right now, it's getting blocked. Sounds like a conspiracy to me!
The Philippines is out right shooting people if they leave their homes even if it's just to get supplies.
Is it serious? Absolutely! And I have no issue with the whole social distancing thing, washing your hands, etc. Technically the latter we should be doing anyway, virus or no virus. 
But I do think the government stepping in and telling us how to handle it, or else facing criminal punishment, is going too far. How we're treating people who do come down with it as sick, are treated like dung. What ever happened to having compassion for the sick?
I'm just frustrated. The idea of being on lock down, the idea of the government stepping in, scares me more than the COVID-19 virus. Am I being unreasonable? Am I crazy? I'll admit the idea of quarantine triggers a lot of anxiety for me. Being interrogated at the Doctor's office just for a routine therapy session is enough to ruffle my feathers and I'm tempted to outright cancel the therapy, even though I need it. My mental state the way it's being right now means I probably need therapy more than ever, but at the same time the initial stress to get therapy is going to go up as well. It's a lose-lose situation for me.
Plus you know, getting pulled over just for taking a joy ride in the car? Since how exactly does riding around closed inside a vehicle going to spread anything? You're more likely to spread something if you go into the shop than just stay in the car and ride around. None of this makes sense to me. 
And speaking of which, it's absolutely horrid how some people are treating service workers. Maybe they'll think twice about it once they services are forced to close shop. If this insanity keeps up, I'm sure it'll be inevitable.


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## Slartibartfast (Apr 3, 2020)

I’m sorry you’re not feeling great about this and I don’t think you’re nuts. I started responding because I think this was probably from my post:


MauEvig said:


> ...I've read here for those living in the UK, the one person in one person out rule is a lot more strict than "no more than 10 people" rule we have here in the United States.


It’s a minor point really but the ‘one in one out’ at shops is something which private businesses have decided to implement themselves not an actual law. It’s something I, and I think most people, welcome and it’s been done by freely acting shop-owners who have simply looked at the market conditions and found the best way to keep a bit of calm and order in their businesses and protect their staff. Years ago I used to work in retail and yes, people are really quite horrible. While there will always be unpleasant people I think this crisis has actually brought a wider sense of appreciation of service workers.

The police response to the new quarantine laws over here was too much. It's good to be skeptical but the laws themselves are set to automatically expire and the courts have already thrown out some prosecutions which were to heavy-handed. After the initial public backlash new guidance has been issued to police-forces and government ministers and Lords (yes they’re still a part of our political system) have given the police a good thrashing in public statements. Apologies have been made and practices changed overnight. This is the system working to protect the public and responding to public will. More laws and more interaction from the police is never welcome however this is a crisis which will kill hundreds of thousands of additional people in both our countries if this action is not taken. I’m reminded of the saying ‘never let the perfect be the enemy of the good’. That hypothetical scenario where everyone lives but no action is taken doesn’t exist and we can’t let the thought that it _should_ exist stop us from doing what’s necessary to save lives.

Censorship is always a fun discussion but I don’t think it’s backed by any law. Facebook caught a lot of flack when it was found to be actively promoting, let’s not mince words here, outright lies throughout at least one USA election, two UK elections and our Brexit vote. They were doing this for advertising revenue and engagement statistics. There’s no law that I know of in the USA or the UK which stops people from telling outright lies or expressing opinions which are calculated to polarise and mislead people as to risks or consequences. I guess Facebook have just made a business decision as to what they are willing to publish and promote. I’ve heard a lot of free speech arguments since the start of Web2.0 and I think a lot of people confuse the right to say what they want with a right to be published and promoted on someone else’s international media platform. You can actually still say what you want it's just that if your view is unpopular enough you might just have to shout it out of your window which is pretty much how it's always been.

Anyway I don’t know what the effect of quarantine will be on people’s mental health. I can see loads of possible options and some of them are even good. Maybe our sudden shift to remote working will allow people who have certain anxiety problems to engage better with their work on their own terms, reducing their marginalisation. Maybe our new awareness of social isolation and the technology and techniques we are now using en-mass to deal with it will become part of our way of living and benefit people who are socially isolated during more normal times. It's certainly not all good, and you're not crazy, but there is hope. I feel that just like we all have to work together to stop the virus spreading we have to work together to make sure the lessons we learn from the experience get carried forward when life returns to normal.

TLDR: You're not crazy.


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## Red Star (Apr 26, 2020)

I'm in northern NJ and it feels like I'm living in a sci fi novel. Its pretty scary, not gonna lie. The worst part is the boredom really. I'm getting by though.


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## Miles Lacey (Apr 26, 2020)

It was certainly a weird day on Saturday.  Every April 25th is ANZAC Day when we have dawn parades and other events to remember our war dead.  This year all those events were cancelled so people went out and stood in their driveways at 6am to honour them.

We've lived under very tough laws since late March but we are now relaxing the rules tomorrow (April 28th) so a few more shops will be opening.  Construction and manufacturing will be resuming but with strict social distancing rules still enforced.  We can now extend our social bubbles (the group that we live with) to include relatives and close friends living nearby.  But we'll still be largely under lock down down here in New Zealand.

Everyone who couldn't work got a twelve week wage subsidy paid in a lump sum and the usual rules for the unemployment benefit have been relaxed.  That''s helped a lot.  

A lot of people I talked to actually like the lock down because of the time they've been able to spend time with family and a lot of people have  been cycling and going for walks.  They keep their social distance of two metres, though.  We're also getting to know our neighbours.   For me the lock down hasn't changed anything except the buses are free and run on a Sunday timetable.


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## Miles Lacey (Apr 27, 2020)

Just heard on the BBC that New Zealand has effectively eliminated the Covid-19 virus.  Coronavirus 'currently eliminated' in New Zealand


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## Ban (Apr 27, 2020)

It's King's Day in the Netherlands, which normally means people go outside to drink and wear orange, but ya know. This year's visit was to be Limburg, but better luck next year. Wonder what he's thinking of all this. Probably enjoying a break from travelling around nonstop.

A toast to sitting at home with a fridge full of beer.


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## skip.knox (Apr 27, 2020)

Miles Lacey said:


> Just heard on the BBC that New Zealand has effectively eliminated the Covid-19 virus.  Coronavirus 'currently eliminated' in New Zealand


It will be interesting to see how they handle the tourist trade. And imports.


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## Miles Lacey (Apr 27, 2020)

Tourism industry?  What tourism industry?   It''s effectively been wiped out.  Yes, the tourists will come back but by the time they do a lot of the businesses that rely on them will have long gone and many of the people whose livelihoods depended on tourism will most likely be working for one of the public works programmes the government is planning to set up to provide the unemployed with work (assuming the current government gets re-elected later this year).  It''s basically dependent on what other countries do.

Imports are not such a big issue because most of our trade is with the Asia-Pacific countries and goods are still coming in and out of the country.  So far there hasn't been any shortages but panic buying has meant that most supermarkets restrict the number of certain items that can be sold and prices have gone up on certain food items that we don't produce in New Zealand.


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## zoey (Apr 28, 2020)

For us it has been a chance to play catch up - with relatives and friends. Of course its only been over video calls, but those are pretty good. In fact we have even checked out some of the museums and live safaris. Yes, there is fear and lack of clarity about the future, but at this point we have little say over those things. So we are sitting tight and enjoying the unexpected times together!


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## Insolent Lad (May 4, 2020)

It seems I had a milder case of the CV back in March. There was some shortness of breath, more annoying than truly debilitating, that lingered for quite a while. I'm close to an hundred percent again now, and managed a long bike ride yesterday without discomfort. Maybe I was simply fortunate or maybe I can thank being in rather good condition with no underlying heath problems (that I know of!). Can I be reinfected? I don't know but I'm sticking with gloves and mask when I shop at least till the end of May.


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## Miles Lacey (May 4, 2020)

Insolent Lad - Yes, you can get the coronavirus again.  This is why it''s not like the normal flu.  As a precaution for both yourself and others it''s a good idea to practice social distancing (here in New Zealand it''s two metres but in many other countries it''s one metre or six feet) as well as wearing a face mask and gloves whenever you're close to people you don't live with (what us Kiwis call a social bubble) such as public transport, walking around etc.

This has been drilled into us Kiwis for over six weeks now and we have all but defeated the coronavirus here.


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## Ban (May 4, 2020)

Miles Lacey said:


> Insolent Lad - Yes, you can get the coronavirus again.



It's a possibility that you can get it twice as there might be multiple strains (Though I remember that being deemed unlikely), but so far nothing has been proven conclusive. Let's not spread uncertainties as facts. Lingering dead cells being the culprit for false positives is an interesting phenomenon.

WHO on why you can test positive for coronavirus twice


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## Miles Lacey (May 4, 2020)

Ban said:


> It's a possibility that you can get it twice as there might be multiple strains, but so far nothing has been proven conclusive. Let's not spread uncertainties as facts.



There has been news reports indicating that you can get it twice:

South Korea’s New Coronavirus Twist: Recovered Patients Test Positive Again

However, some publications suggest that it might be that the coronavirus may still linger in people who've had it before.  In other words, it may be the same infection flaring up again rather than a case of re-infection.

Can I get the coronavirus twice?

The comment below from the second article cited sums up the situation best:

_*SARS-CoV-2 is so new that we won’t know for sure until we’ve found out just how protective our immune response to the virus is, and how long it lasts.
*_
The advice I gave to Insolent Lad is still valid, though, and it has been practised in many countries including here in New Zealand.
_

_


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## Insolent Lad (May 5, 2020)

I've been extremely careful through all this; that's made easier by the fact that I live out in the country and rarely see much of anyone anytime, and only go into town every two or three weeks.  That is, I was a hermit before the CV, and will continue to be. I blame my infection on touring musicians who stopped by my place though they deny it!


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## CupofJoe (May 7, 2020)

I miss being at work and my writing is suffering.
I've been in lock-down and working from home for almost two months. I find myself missing the thinking time of my commute, the little breaks from the daily grind, even the "water-cooler" moment with others.
These all gave me time to let my mind wonder aimlessly.
And that is when I would find myself being creative.
Now that I'm working from home, only let out of the house for a short while each day, and chatting with neighbours and friends is all but gone... I'm not as creative mentally. I need to find a new creativity creator...


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## Miles Lacey (May 11, 2020)

The New Zealand government is relaxing it's lock down on Thursday so we'll be able to do most of the things we could do before the pandemic - except gather in groups of more than ten and travel overseas.  First thing to do on Thursday: look for the businesses that don't reopen. Then post some mail.


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## Adela (May 17, 2020)

My state reopened on the 1st and now it's started to spike once again. My mother has been making masks and sending them out to family and friends. I've written in spurts of 5 to 10 minutes once or twice a week (if that) and try not to watch any news. Yeah, creativity has definitely taken a hit.


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## Miles Lacey (May 28, 2020)

Some good news on the Covid-19 front:  New Zealand has one case of Covid-19 left.  No new cases in seven days.


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## Miles Lacey (Jun 8, 2020)

Apart from travelling overseas all Covid-19 restrictions have been removed as of 12.01am Tuesday, 9th June, 2020, because everyone who had Covid-19 in New Zealand has either recovered or died.  No new cases had been recorded in almost two weeks.  And to celebrate this achievement I'm off to bed.


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## FifthView (Jun 13, 2020)

The mental and emotional impact is weird to trace. For my own microcosm, it's been somewhat severe, given how it's affected the workplace. I've been very lucky to keep working throughout. Although hours were cut in half for a couple months, they're back to normal. Unfortunately, I work with the public, and the dichotomy of me-wearing-masks-and-sanitizing vs the vast majority I meet  who don't do any of this has reinforced whatever latent misanthropy I already had. So many simply don't seem to care whether they infect others; it's business as usual. I live in that U.S. state that briefly became notorious for weekend pool partiers...in the days before the BLM protests. Then again, perhaps the situation isn't as dire as I have feared....?!?!  So I'm overreacting to the negligence I see in others? Here's the rub, and the maddening mental gymnastics. A nearly constant level of stress. (All this added to personal health and financial issues that are purely my own.)


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## skip.knox (Jun 13, 2020)

My wife and I are in an analogous situation. We're retired, 68 years old with grown children and two grandchildren living in other states. We're very careful about our health, but all around us we see people who are indifferent. Had a person come check out AC unit and he didn't wear a mask. When I had mine, he offered to go put his on--left it in the car, so obviously the company is providing, probably just as a legal move--but said something to the effect that he wasn't so sure he believed all that. Meaning Covid and its dangers. 

So, fine. Believe or don't believe. But the behavior of others has an effect on me and mine. It's a bit like saying "I don't really believe in all these traffic signs so I'm going to drive however I please." It's difficult not to be angry at such behavior. I try not to, for anger at the indifferent is a losing game.

Is the situation as dire as we fear? No, not for those not yet affected. Yes, for those who have been. That's how this works. We have three hundred million people here in the U.S. (more, I know, but I'm just using round numbers, because square numbers are clumsy), and a hundred thousand deaths. One in 300, iow. Even counting all the cases of testing positive and all their kinfolk, that still leaves a huge majority of people for whom the only impact of Covid-19 has been the economic consequences of lockdown. People tend to react most to what affects them most immediately.

I expect more of the same. I could sit here and nod and say sure go ahead. More deaths, more life-altering illness, y'all believe as you please. But this whole business has meant delaying memorial services for my father-in-law. It's meant not seeing one of my grandchildren this summer. It's meant having to cancel travel to Europe at an age when "oh well we'll get there eventually" has an increasingly hollow ring to it. I'm fine with dealing with Covid-19. I'm less fine dealing with people who are being wilfully ignorant about how disease works, and being wilfully reckless with the lives of others.


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## Ban (Jun 13, 2020)

FifthView said:


> The mental and emotional impact is weird to trace. For my own microcosm, it's been somewhat severe, given how it's affected the workplace. I've been very lucky to keep working throughout. Although hours were cut in half for a couple months, they're back to normal. Unfortunately, I work with the public, and the dichotomy of me-wearing-masks-and-sanitizing vs the vast majority I meet  who don't do any of this has reinforced whatever latent misanthropy I already had. So many simply don't seem to care whether they infect others; it's business as usual. I live in that U.S. state that briefly became notorious for weekend pool partiers...in the days before the BLM protests. Then again, perhaps the situation isn't as dire as I have feared....?!?!  So I'm overreacting to the negligence I see in others? Here's the rub, and the maddening mental gymnastics. A nearly constant level of stress. (All this added to personal health and financial issues that are purely my own.)



You are certainly not overreacting. As of today, more people have now officially died of Covid19 in the US than the amount of deaths the US suffered in world war 1. Now sure, we can talk about percentages and such, but at the end of the day that's 117.000 people who did not need to die and do not need to continue dying in gruesome fashion.


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## Orc Knight (Jun 13, 2020)

As someone who wen through the tests lately and fortunately came out negative. I've been working through it since the beginning due to being essential, it does kind of scare me a little. Just because the U.S. is reopening doesn't mean it's gone. And I work in the public quarter, so when I got symptoms, I pretty much got testing as soon as possible. I see too many people in one day to not be serious about it.


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## FifthView (Jun 19, 2020)

Ban said:


> You are certainly not overreacting. As of today, more people have now officially died of Covid19 in the US than the amount of deaths the US suffered in world war 1. Now sure, we can talk about percentages and such, but at the end of the day that's 117.000 people who did not need to die and do not need to continue dying in gruesome fashion.



I had a gentleman, wearing a cap with a certain political slogan displayed prominently, tell me that no, it's all a hoax. When I said that over 100K people have died he just laughed and said that many people die all the time, from the flu for instance, and the "hoaxers" have just conflated flu and other deaths with Covid19 stats. 

So this sort of thing—wasn't the first time I've been told about this supposed "hoax"—and others already mentioned have only added to my general doubt about our society's ability to function well.


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## skip.knox (Jun 19, 2020)

>doubt about our society's ability to function well.
Don't worry too much. Stupidity is by no means a modern invention, nor is ignorance. Somehow we survive. ... although, that modifier "well" is looking a bit problematic these days.


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## FifthView (Jun 20, 2020)

skip.knox said:


> Stupidity is by no means a modern invention, nor is ignorance. Somehow we survive. ...



Sure, if you mean "we" in the broadest sense....

Again though, this uncertain awareness of a continuum's endpoints is one of the maddening features...


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## Kasper Hviid (Jun 20, 2020)

Adela said:


> My state reopened on the 1st and now it's started to spike once again. My mother has been making masks and sending them out to family and friends.



Rather amazing that society is too cheap to produce paper masks that literally saves people's lives, while there plenty of resources to plaster TV monitors everywhere in public just to convince people to buy an energy drink or whatever.


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## skip.knox (Jun 20, 2020)

I meant "we" in the sense of "society" from your previous. 

The endpoint business is problematic. What was the endpoint for MERS? Or even the flu? There appears to be a kind of hierarchy in which diseases exist. At the highest level we get government action. A step down from that would be the disease is in the news and the medical community is still working on responses, mainly because it's a new disease. Then there are diseases that kill plenty of people but don't make headlines, except occasionally. Then there are the ones where the medical community has its responses, people still sicken and die, but it's at a level that doesn't make the news and doesn't elicit new responses from the medical community. It's sort of a case of known problem, best people working on it.

You'll note none of those have an endpoint. They just have levels of response and levels of consequences (of which dying is but one). This is why I don't talk about returning to normal or getting past this disease. That won't happen. It'll simply fade into the background or, more likely, will be superseded by some new, more urgent crisis. And Covid-19 will be this thing you read about, unless and until it happens to one of your own.

Sometimes that's a discouraging attitude, but then I remember that this is how humanity has always lived. It's harder for my generation in the West because we grew up with a rhetoric about "conquering" or "ending" this or that disease, and it led us to thinking that any disease could be conquered. Very much an artifact of wartime rhetoric.


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## CupofJoe (Sep 1, 2020)

For exactly 2 hours I went in to work for the first time since March. There were two of us in a room that can hold 90 and a building that can hold 1000+ during teaching. It was strange to see al the safety measures that have been put in place [signs, guides etc]. A lot of people have been busy while I've been away.


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## skip.knox (Sep 1, 2020)

Not really a like. More like an acknowledgment


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## joshua mcdermott (Sep 12, 2020)

on thing is it forced me to stay home and take up writing as I can't do my other hobbies.  I wonder if I will stop writing once I can leave the house again?  but by then it will be 2022 and I'll have gotten quite a bit done.


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