# The coming and going of gods



## Jabrosky (Oct 8, 2013)

So I've been nurturing and jotting down a concept in which a bunch of gods crash into a world populated by tribal humans. They use their powers to help the humans and uplift their cultures to larger, more advanced civilizations, but after a thousand years pass, they "expire" or fade away into oblivion. The first part of the story will involve the prehistoric humans meeting their gods for the first time while the second part has their civilized descendents dealing with the consequences of the gods' expiration. I haven't decided on whether I want a world-spanning story or instead will concentrate on one part of the world and its resident god, but in case I choose the former, here are some possible gods for the world:*

Bruni, the Fire Goddess* - Lords over a cold, snowy country in the distant north. Blesses her followers with warmth against the wintry cold and attacks with fireballs. Name derived from a Norse word for fire.

*Akheti, the Water Goddess* - Lords over a hot and dry savanna country. Blesses her followers with rain for their fields and attacks with thunderstorms and tidal waves. Name derived from the ancient Egyptian word for the flooding season.

*Ntangu, the Sun God* - Lords over a dark and misty jungle country. Blesses his followers with light and dryness and attacks with blindness, dehydration, and (in the case of lighter-skinned enemies) sunburns. Name derived from a Kikongo word for the Sun.

*Oneone, the Earth God* - Lords over an archipelago of small islands. Blesses his followers with ground and stone to build upon and attacks with rocky avalanches. Name derived from a Maori word for earth.

*Himu, the Animal Goddess *- Lords over a rugged desert which has a lot of cacti and other dry-weather plants but not a lot of large native animals. Blesses her followers with game and curses her enemies by turning them into game. Name derived from a Hopi word for animal.

*Xylos, the Tree God* - Lords over an open, grassy prairie. Blesses his followers with timber and shade and attacks with carnivorous plants. Name derived from a Greek word for wood.

Any thoughts on whether or not you like these gods?


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## Edankyn (Oct 8, 2013)

I like the dichotomy where the god is actually lord over his/her opposite and uses his/her domain as a blessing to his followers. Also I really like the name of the gods, and I think you've got a solid balance between your gods. Overall it's a really neat idea.


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## Lawfire (Oct 8, 2013)

It is an interesting concept. Have you developed any story ideas based on this, or are you developing the overall, "creation," story?


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## Jabrosky (Oct 8, 2013)

Edankyn said:


> I like the dichotomy where the god is actually lord over his/her opposite and uses his/her domain as a blessing to his followers. Also I really like the name of the gods, and I think you've got a solid balance between your gods. Overall it's a really neat idea.


Thank you! I thought it would make more sense if a god lorded over an environment where their services were most needed rather than where the element they controlled was already abundant. People living in a dark and misty jungle would probably appreciate the sun's gifts more than people living in an open savanna or desert, for example.


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## Ireth (Oct 8, 2013)

Jabrosky said:


> People living in a dark and misty jungle would probably appreciate the sun's gifts more than people living in an open savanna or desert, for example.



Not necessarily, IMO. I recall in Disney's _Tarzan_, sunlight and open space signified exposure and danger, while trees and shade meant shelter and safety. But this is just my initial reaction; I of course know nothing of how the jungle-dwelling people in YOUR story would view that dichotomy.


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## Jabrosky (Oct 8, 2013)

Lawfire said:


> It is an interesting concept. Have you developed any story ideas based on this, or are you developing the overall, "creation," story?


The story I am thinking up comes in two parts. The first involves the gods coming down to the world and the primitive human inhabitants meeting them, whereas the second is about what happens to the later civilizations once their patron deities expire. Akheti and her people are whom I want to concentrate on the most, but they probably need to interact with the other gods and their followers to provide more conflict.


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## Jabrosky (Oct 8, 2013)

Ireth said:


> Not necessarily, IMO. I recall in Disney's _Tarzan_, sunlight and open space signified exposure and danger, while trees and shade meant shelter and safety. But this is just my initial reaction; I of course know nothing of how the jungle-dwelling people in YOUR story would view that dichotomy.


I heard that commentary (I have the DVD). It was actually a little tricky finding a suitable god for a jungle-dwelling people, but I went with the sun because a) there's not too much sunlight in a jungle, and b) light can also expose predators skulking in the shadows.


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## Ireth (Oct 8, 2013)

Jabrosky said:


> I heard that commentary (I have the DVD). It was actually a little tricky finding a suitable god for a jungle-dwelling people, but I went with the sun because a) there's not too much sunlight in a jungle, and b) light can also expose predators skulking in the shadows.



Yes, but it also exposes YOU to the predators.


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## Jabrosky (Oct 8, 2013)

Ireth said:


> Yes, but it also exposes YOU to the predators.


I would think jungle-dwelling predators would have evolved keen vision to see through the shadows even without a sun deity to help them.

Back to the story I'm planning for this, I do know that the theme I want to communicate for the second part is that humanity can thrive even without the gods' patronization. However, I am not sure what should happen to the big civilizations they build under godly supervision. Should they figure out alternative means to sustaining those empires after the gods expire, or should they revert to smaller-scale tribal societies?


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## Ireth (Oct 8, 2013)

Jabrosky said:


> I would think jungle-dwelling predators would have evolved keen vision to see through the shadows even without a sun deity to help them.



Fair enough. XD


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## Edankyn (Oct 8, 2013)

Weighing in on the jungle/sun situation. You've mentioned that Ntango attacks with blindness. That notion admits that sunlight can be dangerous, but that the god uses that power for the betterment of his followers. In a world where sunlight is used as weapon against predators I would imagine that they would come to fear it, at least to a certain degree. So while it may expose you to a certain degree, it also provides a layer of protection at the same time.

Then there is the other side of the coin. Ntango also controls water content in the jungle to a certain degree (blessing with dryness and attacking with dehydration). If you've never been in an environment that is wet all the time you can't understand how miserable it is. Dryness is not only a comfort, but can be protection from rot. I'll admit that you could create a scenario where those in the jungle would be afraid of the sun, but it's also possible to make the kind of association that Jabrosky made.


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## Jabrosky (Oct 8, 2013)

Map of the setting

Not sure what to do with the island subcontinent off the southern coast to be honest. Maybe it'll be some kind of godless hinterland.


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## Jabrosky (Oct 9, 2013)

*The Water Queen of Akheti* 
The Water Queen is the highest-ranking of a hierarchy of priestesses  serving and carrying out the will of the Water Goddess Akheti. Among  other responsibilities, she must bring about the rainy season every  year, protect her domain from the godless barbarians who prowl beyond  its borders, and supply the Goddess with sacrifices to keep Her going.  The position of Water Queen is a matrilineal one inherited from mother  to daughter, but she traditionally has a male consort who assists her in  military affairs. 

This character’s costume design is suppose to give off a vaguely ancient  Egyptian vibe, with the crown based off the Queen Nefertiti’s  headdress. However, her people are supposed to have a very dark, almost  bluish black skin color similar to that of certain Nilotic peoples in  our world’s South Sudan.


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## Jabrosky (Oct 9, 2013)

Some totem concepts for each of the gods named in my OP. Each totem is supposed to be an animal native to that god's geographic domain.

*Bruni, the Fire Goddess* - Totem is the Tiger.

*Akheti, the Water Goddess* - Totem is the Crocodile.

*Ntangu, the Sun God* - Totem is the Triceratops.

*Oneone, the Earth God* - Totem is the Crab.

*Himu, the Animal Goddess *- Totem is the Rattlesnake.

*Xylos, the Tree God* - Totem is the Bison.


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## ThinkerX (Oct 9, 2013)

Your map didn't load for me.

That said...

How do these gods inter-relate?  For minor example:  Are Xylos and Oneone allies?  enemies? Do they turn up in the same myths?  Or is each of the named Gods a prominent member or leader of a sort of mini pantheon?


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## Jabrosky (Oct 9, 2013)

Let's try that map again:








ThinkerX said:


> How do these gods inter-relate?  For minor example:  Are Xylos and Oneone allies?  enemies? Do they turn up in the same myths?  Or is each of the named Gods a prominent member or leader of a sort of mini pantheon?


How the six gods all get along is something I am undecided about at the moment. I originally envisioned them as all mutually competitive with each other, with each god looking out for themselves, but such a paradigm would stifle commerce between the various domains. Now I feel there should exist some alliances between certain gods, but that needs mapping out.

Before the six gods all came into the world, each of the peoples they would come to control already possessed their own indigenous, usually clan-specific deities, and the Akhetians and Ntangans in particular observed ancestor veneration as well. Since the gods' coming, the prehistoric clan deities have been reduced to symbols much like heraldry, but the ancestor worship traditions persist in large part because the newcomer gods don't really involve themselves in afterlife affairs.


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## ThinkerX (Oct 9, 2013)

> How the six gods all get along is something I am undecided about at the moment. I originally envisioned them as all mutually competitive with each other, with each god looking out for themselves, but such a paradigm would stifle commerce between the various domains. Now I feel there should exist some alliances between certain gods, but that needs mapping out.



So...what you'd have would be a sort of elemental 'divine family'.  The deities you listed would be the offspring of now deceased or imprisoned parents, as per greek mythology (the fates of Cronus and Uranus).  Maybe some of these offspring are concerned that the parent god(s) will escape from their prison (especially if some mortal adventurer inadverantly (?) exploits a loophole keeping said ancestor deity imprisoned.  

Apart from that, I'd suggest a sort of loose council of these gods, filled with strife and backbiting.



> Before the six gods all came into the world, each of the peoples they would come to control already possessed their own indigenous, usually clan-specific deities, and the Akhetians and Ntangans in particular observed ancestor veneration as well. Since the gods' coming, the prehistoric clan deities have been reduced to symbols much like heraldry, but the ancestor worship traditions persist in large part because the newcomer gods don't really involve themselves in afterlife affairs.



Time to introduce another God, one who is concerned with the afterlife (life and death) more than ought else.  (Maybe his priests claim the far southern island continent, and venture elsewhere on their gods errands).  The other six gods don't act against him, but tend to get real nervous when he shows up at the council meetings.  Also...this god would have to have a powerful weapon associated with him, powerful enough to slay a god, 'lost' somewhere in the mortal realm.

As to the rest of the former gods...I'd suggest stealing a page from Fiest and going with a 'city of the dead gods', possibly on that island continent, overseen by the deity of 'life and death'.  Maybe lingering cultists from the time before show up at this city and make offerings now and again at these last lingering shrines.  Possibly some of their priests are plotting a comeback.


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## Gurkhal (Oct 10, 2013)

Looks pretty good to me. The only thing that I could possibly object to is that it somehow, at least to my initial sense, is that it seems a bit to orderly and not as chaotic as a "natural" pantheon would be. But, hey, go all the way if you feel its the way to go. I don't see anyting bad with it even if it don't really strike my cords at first glance.


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## Jabrosky (Oct 10, 2013)

Gurkhal said:


> Looks pretty good to me. The only thing that I could possibly object to is that it somehow, at least to my initial sense, is that it seems a bit to orderly and not as chaotic as a "natural" pantheon would be.


Do you have an example of a "natural" pantheon which you feel is chaotic? That actually sounds like it could be interesting in its own right.


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## Gurkhal (Oct 11, 2013)

Well, to my humble view the Egyptian, Norse, Celtic and Aztec pantheons are a bit chaotic as you can tell that it hasn't grown out along orderly lines but is actually fairly chaotic with overlapping deities and deities which can be unique without adhering to any seeming plan for them. At least that's my view of it.


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## TrustMeImRudy (Oct 16, 2013)

Hello, gonna jump right in,
While Gurkhal has a point, I don't think I'm insulting anyone by saying that those pantheons are commonly thought to not be real. In a world with actual interacting gods it would be less chaotic. Not saying it isn't too orderly, but with a real god directly overseeing stuff I think it would go along more or less orderly. 
However if they had gods prior to the arrival of these new dudes, those old gods will still have a hold on their minds, and it'll be hard to unroot them. Take the missionaries for example, the best way to earn converts wasn't to preach their religion nonstop, but to take the present religions and draw similarities. This god became that saint, that monster became this demon, and when they were beginning to believe, take the other gods and turn em' all into demons.

 So what happened in the minds of the people to the old gods? Are they now saints? Demons? Manifestations of their new, true god? Lies, or parents of, etc.

And btw those totems look awesome. Very cool symbols.


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## claramcalister (Sep 1, 2017)

ThinkerX said:


> Time to introduce another God, one who is concerned with the afterlife (life and death) more than ought else. (Maybe his priests claim the far southern island continent, and venture elsewhere on their gods errands). The other six gods don't act against him, but tend to get real nervous when he shows up at the council meetings. Also...this god would have to have a powerful weapon associated with him, powerful enough to slay a god, 'lost' somewhere in the mortal realm.



I don't think a God of the Afterlife / Death is really necessary. In fact, I actually think it's a really bad idea for this story.

If I'm understanding the premise correctly, your Gods are actually just another humanoid race from another planet a la _Stargate_ (but with what's roughly Magic instead of Technology). And instead of conquering the people like most similar scenarios tend to go for, they decide to help them by providing them with the main resource they need to survive in their environments. For this, they're worshiped by the tribal peoples and considered "Gods".

If that's the case, any sort of "God" who doesn't do this is ultimately unnecessary to the plot. More than that, they stick out like a sore thumb. You also have to take into consideration that these *aren't* classically divine beings. They're "people" who have been deified and have replaced the cultures' classical divinity- _and there's a huge difference_; yes, afterlife practices are inevitably going to crop up around them because afterlife is a part of religious belief. However, that doesn't mean your "Gods" themselves have to specifically contribute to that in any way.



Gurkhal said:


> Looks pretty good to me. The only thing that I could possibly object to is that it somehow, at least to my initial sense, is that it seems a bit to orderly and not as chaotic as a "natural" pantheon would be. But, hey, go all the way if you feel its the way to go. I don't see anyting bad with it even if it don't really strike my cords at first glance.





Gurkhal said:


> Well, to my humble view the Egyptian, Norse, Celtic and Aztec pantheons are a bit chaotic as you can tell that it hasn't grown out along orderly lines but is actually fairly chaotic with overlapping deities and deities which can be unique without adhering to any seeming plan for them. At least that's my view of it.



Polytheistic cultural faith systems seem "Chaotic" to outsiders specifically because of Local Cultus practices.

In essence, in practically every culture you had what amounted to a singular state religion that held a base ideology. But within each of them, however? Each region, family, city, tribe, or city-state (and so on) had their own _variations_ on the myths. For instance, Athena Polias was an incredibly different figure compared to Athena Paionia- but she was also incredibly different from Athena Glaukopis... _Despite the fact that all three were worshiped in Athens and were figures of the Greek state religion_.

Unfortunately, modern people tend to _way over simplify_ the number of figures that these polytheistic faiths _actually_ had, and hypergeneralize what their peoples believed they actually did. Their cults and regionally specific aspects are usually left out entirely.... So instead of there being over a hundred unique Athenas (no, I'm not joking) with their own limited specialties? We think there's only one- and then we get confused when their purview overlap with the others. In all reality, however, they rarely overlapped. More than that, their purviews were often incredibly specific (like only a certain _*type*_ of medicine, for instance- or a certain_* type*_ of thunder)- and were largely specific only to a certain location or city to boot).

That's why we (in general) tend to think they're chaotic and poorly disorganized: Because most people, for a number of reasons, are ultimately missing like 99.9999% of the system in the first place. And it really is a shame, because these faith systems were often incredibly fascinating- and fascinatingly organized.

That being said, though... Once again, here I have to point out that these beings in the store (if I'm understanding it right) aren't classical divines in the first place. And if they come from a civilization advanced enough to have space travel? There's no reason they should realistically be disorganized. In fact, I'd expect beings from a civilization like that to be far more organized than any sort of pantheon we'd be capable of coming up with on our own.


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