# Villains Using (Fictional) Racial Slurs



## Mindfire (Apr 9, 2012)

To put it succinctly, there's a bit of racial/cultural/national tension in my book. It springs from a centuries-old conflict (i.e. backstory) with the Beorgians and Elyssians on one side and the Mavarians and Mako on the other. (Although the Beorgians and Elyssians sometimes have trouble getting along also due to philosophical differences.)
If you wish to understand the roots of this conflict better as well as see a map for visual aid, open the spoiler tags.



Spoiler: Backstory and Map







Click Image for Higher Resolution.​

*Origins*
The four nations were once a single nation under one god- The Worldmaker, living in a fertile plain fed by winding rivers. But they grew arrogant and corrupt. They abused their power and resources. They grew complacent and careless, exploiting the land and destroying it in the process. As a punishment for their negligence, their civilization was destroyed by drought and sandstorms until it crumbled into ruin.

After this event, they split into two factions. One faction, stubborn in their rebellion, built ships and sailed to better lands in the north where they forsook their ancestral faith and made new gods of metal and stone. The other faction repented, deciding to rebuild their homes and remain faithful. 

Eventually the northern faction began to think themselves superior the southern faction and invaded them, intent on making them into slaves. The southerners were not expecting an invasion and were unprepared. They split into two groups: one group retreated further into the desert, where they built lives for themselves among the sands and oases and built new cities over the old ruins. Their leader was Mavros the Visionary. Their descendants became the Mavarians. The other group retreated in to the dense jungle, and their descendants became the Mako, “The Tribe”. The Worldmaker gave them magic powers in order to help them defend themselves from the invaders and to make life easier for them in their hostile new homes, but also limited their powers to prevent them from abusing them.

The northerners realized that pursuing into the desert and jungles would be a bad idea, so they were content to remain in the lands they had already subdued. Most of them returned north to the lands they had conquered. They named their country the “Land of Strength” and christened themselves the Beorgians. But some chose to colonize the southern territory they had acquired and managed to transform it into a fertile country. They resultant agricultural success brought economic stability that allowed them to pursue the arts and sciences and claim independence, separating them from their northern mother country.

As a symbol of their autonomy, they abandoned the northern pagan religious system, but they also didn't want to adopt the monotheism of the southerners, who they deemed inferior. Their rulers decided this would be a good opportunity to grab power, so they wouldn't have to constantly share power with a religious sect. They issued a declaration that the gods did not exist and banned all public worship. They funded the arts and sciences with a bias towards atheism. After a few generations the idea that there were no gods became accepted as fact. They called their country the “Land of Enlightenment” and became the Elyssians.



So as it stands, there is animosity between the "southern" nations and the "northern" nations. The conflict is most heated between the Beorgians and the Mavarians. So I thought that in order to make the tension between them a bit more believable, they should have insults and unpleasant epithets for one another. Here's where things get dicy. 

Mavarians sometimes refer to Beorgians as "water rats", because they are a nation heavily invested in seafaring and many of their most important deities are associated with water. The Beorgians and Elyssians have some fairly obvious insults for the Mavarians too, like "savages", "barbarians," "infidels", etc., because their country is less industrialized. But if you notice the location of Mavaria on my map, the country is largely desert, with some savannah and scrubland in the south end. So it stands to reason that the people who live there will be (for the most part anyway) dark-skinned. Whereast the people to the north and east of them will be lighter skinned. I modeled Mavarians on the people of northern Africa and Sudan, while I modeled Beorgians on Russians and the Elyssians largely on Romans/Italians.

This presents a question. Given the fact that Mavarians are dark-skinned and are considered to be evil barbarian-wizards by the Beorgians and Elyssians, and given the common asssociation of darkness with evil, would it not also be logical that the Beorgians and Elyssians would also have distasteful epithets for the Mavarians that reference their skin color? I came up with a few, trying to stay as far away from real-world insults as possible: "dusk witches", "black devils", "burnt men". Likewise, I'm considering giving the Mavarians racial epithets for their enemies such as "sickly ones", "chalk men", and "alabastards". Ok, that last one might be a little too comedic in tone, but you get my point.

But my interest goes beyond having a believable enmity between my nations. I also have an ulterior motive. The Hunger Games controversy. The books flew under my radar for the longest time, but the trailer for the movie has gained them a spot on my to-read list. However, a brief tour of the internet informed me that "fans" of the books were...unhappy (an understatement) that certain characters from the book were portrayed as people of color- even though they were explicitly stated to be such within the novel. How "fans" of the book could miss a detail like that eludes me, and the last thing I want is for my POC characters to be mistaken for or misrepresented as Caucasians***. The Hunger Games issue leads me to believe that description may not be enough to prevent this. The use of (invented) racial epithets by my characters, particularly villains, might serve as a method of reminding the readers in a fairly non-intrusive manner that not all of my characters are white. But there's also that fine line you tread of not wanting to offend people who resemble either side****.

Can I get away with this? Given the context, would you guys advise for or against it? 

Of course, all of this takes for granted the admittedly vain assumption that my book will be widely read enough for this to matter at all, but I'm giving myself the benefit of the doubt. 


***Take a moment to compare the Earthsea books with the (terrible) Earthsea miniseries. There's a rather obvious difference. Also compare the Avatar: The Last Airbender cartoon with the (again, terrible) movie.
****I'm black btw. Not sure how relevant that is.


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## Jabrosky (Apr 9, 2012)

As someone who writes protagonists of color a lot (I'm white BTW), I always briefly describe their ethnic characteristics (e.g. skin color or hair texture) when introducing them. That said, your method is definitely a creative way of tackling the problem of whitewashing. As long as you don't write the story so that it sounds like you're endorsing your characters' prejudices, I say go for it.

As an aside, I've noticed that if I describe only my protagonists' ethnic traits, people will assume that everyone else in the setting looks ethnically similar to the protagonist. In fact I've had one reader explicitly tell me this.

P.S. Your avatar looks like a lighter-skinned black man (it must be the cornrows).


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## Mindfire (Apr 9, 2012)

Jabrosky said:


> As someone who writes protagonists of color a lot (I'm white BTW), I always briefly describe their ethnic characteristics (e.g. skin color or hair texture) when introducing them. That said, your method is definitely a creative way of tackling the problem of whitewashing. As long as you don't write the story so that it sounds like you're endorsing your characters' prejudices, I say go for it.
> 
> P.S. Your avatar looks like a lighter-skinned black man (it must be the cornrows).



Thanks Jabrosky! I'll keep that in mind. As for the avatar, it's a placeholder. Pretty much picked it at random. lol I'm going to get a proper one eventually.


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## The Din (Apr 9, 2012)

Racial slurs are a part of life, just watch an episode of family guy or the simpsons. (I myself have got in trouble on this forum for an off-color joke that someone took offense to. I'm an Alabastard, btw.) I would say that if you have two different races there's bound to be some names flung back and forth. 

I'd be careful using them solely to vilify the bad guys though, some neo-nazis might pick up the book and get really confused... Also, if you're going to use words like c**t and motherf**ker then let the hate fly. If you're biggest profanity is calling someone a poo-head, I'd steer clear of them all together.


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## Legendary Sidekick (Apr 9, 2012)

One of my favorite slurs for white people is one I heard a lot in Hong Kong: "gwai lo." It basically means "ghost-man," or "ghost-person." My wife, who is Chinese, explained that it comes from an old belief that only the Chinese are real people and everyone else is a ghost.

I never took offense to the term "gwai lo," which most of my wife's friends used affectionately when they talked about their other "Western" friends.


(This doesn't top the time I was setting up a date and told the girl I'm half Italian. Her immediate response, "Are you in the mafia?" I wish I could say I was smart enough not to go on the date. Ahh... my pathetic, desperately-single twenties!)


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## Caged Maiden (Apr 9, 2012)

Could you select another way for the different people to fight or put each other down?  I'm sort of touchy about racial slurs because I find them cheap in addition to distasteful. 

I personally would encourage you to focus more on the philosophy of the various groups, and derive your insults from that group rather than race.  The thing about race is that we have a lot of people on earth, and whatever the exact shade of their skin, many of them _identify_ with what it feels like to be discriminated against.  The thing is, we don't have your unique cultures and religions and philosophies here, so no one is probably gong to identify with those or feel attacked.  I think the more sheepf***er and your momma jokes you can get in to  insult people, the better, because insults based strictly on skin color  will offend a lot of people. 

By the way, I like the idea of Duskwitches, but I misread it the first time as Dustwitches, and sort of thought you might like that.  It sounds insulting and goes along with the Mavarian desert setting.  I'd be pretty damn insulted if someone summed up my whole rich magical tradition into the term Dustwitch.


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## Mindfire (Apr 9, 2012)

The Din said:


> Racial slurs are a part of life, just watch an episode of family guy or the simpsons. (I myself have got in trouble on this forum for an off-color joke that someone took offense to. I'm an Alabastard, btw.) I would say that if you have two different races there's bound to be some names flung back and forth.
> 
> I'd be careful using them solely to vilify the bad guys though, some neo-nazis might pick up the book and get really confused... Also, if you're going to use words like c**t and motherf**ker then let the hate fly. If you're biggest profanity is calling someone a poo-head, I'd steer clear of them all together.



um... thanks? And I don't really do hardcore profanity. Mostly because I find it distasteful and partly because they seem anachronistic and uncreative. In an alternate universe where everything is different, why should they use our swear words, anyway?


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## Mindfire (Apr 9, 2012)

anihow said:


> By the way, I like the idea of Duskwitches, but I misread it the first time as Dustwitches, and sort of thought you might like that.  It sounds insulting and goes along with the Mavarian desert setting.  I'd be pretty damn insulted if someone summed up my whole rich magical tradition into the term Dustwitch.



I like this.


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## Shockley (Apr 9, 2012)

It's hard, I think, to pull off racial insults for fictional groups of people. One of the reasons they have weight in the real world is that they often signify years and years of oppression, and are given meaning by us since so many of us actually know people in those specific racial groups.

 If you say that about a group that doesn't have that kind of history or real significance to me, well, meh. I don't buy into it the way I would someone using an actual racial slur.


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## The Din (Apr 9, 2012)

Mindfire said:


> um... thanks? And I don't really do hardcore profanity. Mostly because I find it distasteful and partly because they seem anachronistic and uncreative. In an alternate universe where everything is different, why should they use our swear words, anyway?



In an alternate universe where everything is different, why should they use the english language? It's all relative mate. These words have been around just as long as half the other words authors use in every-day writing. I personally dislike it when authors invent those insipid taunts, or simply have their characters pout at each other. 

Not saying you have to use anything you're not comfortable with, but to label these good old cusses uncreative only to then go call someone a barbarian or an infidel strikes me as ironic. Just my opinion though, I don't mean to get your hackles up.


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## Phin Scardaw (Apr 9, 2012)

Mindfire said:


> Mavarians sometimes refer to Beorgians as "water rats", because they are a nation heavily invested in seafaring and many of their most important deities are associated with water. The Beorgians and Elyssians have some fairly obvious insults for the Mavarians too, like "savages", "barbarians," "infidels", etc., because their country is less industrialized. But if you notice the location of Mavaria on my map, the country is largely desert, with some savannah and scrubland in the south end. So it stands to reason that the people who live there will be (for the most part anyway) dark-skinned. Whereast the people to the north and east of them will be lighter skinned. I modeled Mavarians on the people of northern Africa and Sudan, while I modeled Beorgians on Russians and the Elyssians largely on Romans/Italians.
> 
> This presents a question. Given the fact that Mavarians are dark-skinned and are considered to be evil barbarian-wizards by the Beorgians and Elyssians, and given the common asssociation of darkness with evil, would it not also be logical that the Beorgians and Elyssians would also have distasteful epithets for the Mavarians that reference their skin color? I came up with a few, trying to stay as far away from real-world insults as possible: "dusk witches", "black devils", "burnt men". Likewise, I'm considering giving the Mavarians racial epithets for their enemies such as "sickly ones", "chalk men", and "alabastards". Ok, that last one might be a little too comedic in tone, but you get my point.



I like your invented insults, and I think that as long as you stay away from the N word you'll be fine. I particularly like "alabastards" and "dusk witches" (although "dust witches" does have definite appeal as well - and would explain why they always carry around brooms!)

Try also to think of other things apart from skin-colour that can be used as insults: 

things that they eat
the things they use for decoration
the customs they have (celebrations, worship, clothing - "towel-heads" comes to mind for those who wear turbans)
sexuality (if homosexuality or even oral sex is acceptable in one culture but not another, this makes for good fodder when inventing insults)
monetary habits (as most Jews can probably attest to, this is a big one)
religious practices

If you explore these then you might enrich the cultures you're inventing and also create some more diverse insults. But fair warning - most readers who encounter a character who uses such terms will peg them as prejudiced, and might make it difficult to like and/or relate to said character.


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## Mindfire (Apr 9, 2012)

The Din said:


> In an alternate universe where everything is different, why should they use the english language? It's all relative mate. These words have been around just as long as half the other words authors use in every-day writing. I personally dislike it when authors invent those insipid taunts, or simply have their characters pout at each other.
> 
> Not saying you have to use anything you're not comfortable with, but to label these good old cusses uncreative only to then go call someone a barbarian or an infidel strikes me as ironic. Just my opinion though, I don't mean to get your hackles up.



I would disagree, since "barbarian" and "infidel" are not profanity, just negative descriptive terms, the analogy isn't entirely sound. But I see what you're getting at.



Phin Scardaw said:


> I like your invented insults, and I think that as long as you stay away from the N word you'll be fine. I particularly like "alabastards" and "dusk witches" (although "dust witches" does have definite appeal as well - and would explain why they always carry around brooms!)
> 
> Try also to think of other things apart from skin-colour that can be used as insults:
> 
> ...



I think I'll do that. Thanks!


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## Phin Scardaw (Apr 9, 2012)

anytime! yours sounds like an interesting story and i'd like to read it. also, you won points with me when you mentioned LeGuin, who is one of my heroes. it's such a shame that her work hasn't been properly depicted on the silver screen: the miniseries is unwatchable in my opinion, and Miyazaki's "Tales From Earthsea" is exactly as she describes it: a beautiful story, but not _her _story. 

i think that most producers will blatantly ignore an author's choices when it comes to ethnicity. sadly, we live in a world where films will reach broader demographics with white heroes as a general rule. LeGuin herself points out that the vast majority of the world's population is NOT white - so why should she only write about white characters?

I have characters in my novels that I never describe ethnically. I let the reader imagine what they look like. Maybe I'll add some details about hair colour or eyes, but that's usually it. It's like sexuality in fantasy stories - if it doesn't affect the plot, it's usually just omitted entirely. 

I also like the idea of creating entirely new ethnicities. Why not purple skin? Or yellow, or green? If you have a race that eats lots of algae or chlorophyll, they might have green skin... That opens up lots of new ideas for insults! 

I'm working on something right now where humans are hybridized with fairy creatures, thus creating an entirely new species called the ELF: Enhanced Life Form. It's a superior human being, with super-powers. I'm really enjoying the act of developing the traits of these creatures, and seeing where I can take it. 

Also, I remember my friend in high school told me that in medieval times it was an insult to show someone your first two fingers (ironically it's now the peace sign) because it meant that these fingers weren't cut off and that you could still fire arrows upon your enemies (one assumes the recipient of the two fingers is an enemy). Also, there's the whole biting of thumbs in Romeo and Juliet. Then, there's the custom of using one's left hand to wipe one's ass in poor nations. Lots of physical traits abound for insult-generating, not just skin colour! Bi noses, slanted eyes, pointed ears, bad teeth, flatulence brought on by a diet of beans... The list goes on!


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## Mindfire (Apr 10, 2012)

Phin Scardaw said:


> anytime! yours sounds like an interesting story and i'd like to read it. also, you won points with me when you mentioned LeGuin, who is one of my heroes. it's such a shame that her work hasn't been properly depicted on the silver screen: the miniseries is unwatchable in my opinion, and Miyazaki's "Tales From Earthsea" is exactly as she describes it: a beautiful story, but not _her _story.
> 
> i think that most producers will blatantly ignore an author's choices when it comes to ethnicity. sadly, we live in a world where films will reach broader demographics with white heroes as a general rule. LeGuin herself points out that the vast majority of the world's population is NOT white - so why should she only write about white characters?
> 
> ...



Thanks Phil! I loved reading the Earthsea books. I remember thinking that they felt very "different" from most of the other fantasy I had read, but different in a good way. I also remember thinking that the school on Roke might have inspired Rowling's Hogwarts, at least in part.  After I read the books I tried watching the miniseries. I don't remember whether I finished it or not. Only that it was bad. For the Last Airbender Movie I can at least name one or two redeeming qualities. For the Earthsea miniseries...nothing. But I digress.

Thanks for your comments! I think your rule of minimal description works for keeping the page uncluttered. The only problem is that (for some reason) most readers will assume the character is white by default. I want to be as unambiguous as possible. As for purple and green skin, I do have an ethnic group that can use magic to change their skin tone as a form of camouflage (they live in a densely forested area). But I think in general ideas like that don't occur to people unless they're writing characters that are distinctly not human. We humans being vain as we are, we mostly like to hear stories about us or people like us. But I'll definitely look for more creative insults.

Thanks for your interest in my work. If you have any more questions, I'll gladly discuss it with you over PMs. The idea of elves being human-fairy hybrids is an interesting one. We could discuss that as well.


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## SeverinR (Apr 11, 2012)

I think the racial slurs are appropriate for a villian with a personality that would fit. 
I think profanity fits also for the same reason, and this wouldn't neccessarily be a villain-limited trait, since we all know some character that is not a villian, but curses frequently.

But I try not to use modern profanity or slurs, they should be in the time period, or that world's words, if the modern day word works, I would use it. But profanity changes over time, just like cultures change.


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