# My Musings on Work Product



## BWFoster78 (Aug 30, 2012)

If you’re going to treat writing as a business instead of a hobby, you simply have to take into account the efficiency of your process and consider cost to benefit ratios.  Here’s my methodology for my first novel:

Rough Draft — 1hr/1000 words
Second Draft that I send to my beta readers — 2.5hrs/1000 words
Third Draft (Pick up comments and apply high gloss polish) — 1hr/1000words
Fourth Draft (Read book start to finish and work on pacing) - .5hr/1000 words   (complete guestimate)
Fifth Draft (Pick up editor comments) - .5hour/1000 words (complete guestimate)

That’s 5.5hrs total per 1000 words.  I’m guessing my final draft will be around 125k.  That’s around 700 hours to write the book start to finish, not counting marketing, creating a website, or anything else.

I’m still on the steep part of the learning curve, and I keep making leaps in my ability.  I’m hoping that, for my second book, I can increase the quality while cutting the time by an hour per 1000 words.  Still, I’m guessing that the sequel will be a minimum of 150k, leaving me still with around 700 hours to complete it.

As a new writer, I feel that my work has to approach a state of near flawlessness in order to attract readers, hence the long hours.  Let’s say for a moment, though, that I decide to write a different kind of book.  Fantasy readers, IMO, tend to be a fairly particular lot.  They demand excellence.  What about a scifi adventure novel, though?

I love the work of John Ringo.  He’s able to hold my attention and impart into his highly adventure based novels a high degree of emotion.  Do I think he spends even 4 hours/1000 words and does 5 drafts?  I seriously doubt it.  My guess would be more like 2 hours.

I can create a readable (not great literature, but decent escapism fare) scifi adventure, I would guess, using the following methodology:

First Draft — 1hr/1000 words  (I might could improve this number by doing more outlining in advance, but I’d prefer to increase the quality of my first draft in order to cut time on my second draft)
Second Draft (Tidy up the first a bit and send to the editor) — 1.5hr/1000 words
Third Draft (Final polish and pick up editor comments) - .5hr/1000 words

That’s only 3 hours per 1000 words, and these novels can be a lot shorter.  For a 60k word novel, that’s only 180 hours.  Even at a lower price point, say $2 compared to $5 for the fantasy, I’d still come out better writing just scifi adventures or by cutting the quality of my fantasy novels greatly.

What’s my point?  I have no idea.  I was hoping someone on the forum could tell me.  This is just something that’s been weighing on my mind lately, and I thought it might generate some discussion.


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## Butterfly (Aug 30, 2012)

Or... just increase your productivity. Rachel Allen can help you there.

Pretentious Title: How I Went From Writing 2,000 Words a Day to 10,000 Words a Day


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## Aosto (Aug 30, 2012)

I have always been told to just hammer out the first draft in it's entirety then go back and polish it up. I think a lot of the time is spent on re-writing only a 1000 words at a time and it slows down your flow. Just hammer out the first draft to get the story down on paper. Then go over it yourself, then give it to the beta readers. After that go over it again and then toss it to an editor. I think this will save you a large amount of time in the long run.


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## Philip Overby (Aug 30, 2012)

Butterfly said:


> Or... just increase your productivity. Rachel Allen can help you there.
> 
> Pretentious Title: How I Went From Writing 2,000 Words a Day to 10,000 Words a Day



This was a very good article.  I've also found recently that knowing what I'm going to write about, even if it's a bit vague, helps me a lot.  I carry a notebook around with me a lot and sometimes just jotting down what I want to be in the next scene helps my productivity when I sit down to write.  About five minutes ago, I just wrote about 1,000 words.  Not my best night, but still pretty good.  And it was because I knew what I was going to write about and I know how the chapter is going to end.  I seemingly at random killed off a pretty important minor character, but I needed it to happen to propel the story forward.  Sometimes having your main character restrained can slow down your novel.  So I have ideas like "kill minor character" before I start writing and then all I have to do is write it.  It's not completely like outlining, but it works just the same.

I try not to think too much about word counts, but I have become rather engrossed in making certain goals recently.  If it helps to monetize or calculate how much time you spend, then I think to keep doing it.


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## BWFoster78 (Aug 30, 2012)

Aosto said:


> I have always been told to just hammer out the first draft in it's entirety then go back and polish it up. I think a lot of the time is spent on re-writing only a 1000 words at a time and it slows down your flow. Just hammer out the first draft to get the story down on paper. Then go over it yourself, then give it to the beta readers. After that go over it again and then toss it to an editor. I think this will save you a large amount of time in the long run.



I think you misinterpreted my post.

For the most part, I wrote my first draft start to finish, and it took about an hour per 1000 words.  I'm currently working on my second draft and am up to chapter 17.  It's taking me somewhere around 2.5 hours per 1000 words to convert my work from 1st to 2nd.  When I need a break from that, I've been going back and doing a little bit of work on my 3rd draft.  I've completed chapter 1, but that's it.  I have not started the 4th or 5th drafts yet.


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## BWFoster78 (Aug 30, 2012)

Butterfly said:


> Or... just increase your productivity. Rachel Allen can help you there.
> 
> Pretentious Title: How I Went From Writing 2,000 Words a Day to 10,000 Words a Day



I've read this article before, and she gives some good advice.  If memory serves, though, it dealt mainly with her first draft, not with the editing process.


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## BWFoster78 (Aug 30, 2012)

> I try not to think too much about word counts, but I have become rather engrossed in making certain goals recently. If it helps to monetize or calculate how much time you spend, then I think to keep doing it.



Word counts are how I track my goals, and I believe it is important to set goals.

As far as monetizing, it's really something I'm just now starting to consider.  If I ever really want to do it for a living, though, I think it's something I need to start thinking heavily about.


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## Steerpike (Aug 30, 2012)

I think if you approach it solely from a business perspective, you just have to be willing to accept the fact that you're going to take a beating for a few years. After that, maybe your work takes off and you're at a point where it makes sense from a purely numbers perspective to write fiction. Maybe a writer never gets to that point. But I think if you are starting off a career in fiction writing with an idea that the numbers have to work out from a business perspective, you're going to be disappointed. If you want a good reward per hour worked, almost anything else will be better than writing fiction, unless and until your work either hits it big or you have a large enough body of work that it doesn't have to and you can still do OK.

My advice, write what you love to write and do the best you possibly can at it, and don't look at the hours versus revenue at this point in your career. Or, pick up a pseudonym and write stuff you think you can dash off, and that will sell, and don't worry about quality so much (keeping in mind that a determined person can find out who you are and make the info public)


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## BWFoster78 (Aug 30, 2012)

Steerpike said:


> I think if you approach it solely from a business perspective, you just have to be willing to accept the fact that you're going to take a beating for a few years. After that, maybe your work takes off and you're at a point where it makes sense from a purely numbers perspective to write fiction. Maybe a writer never gets to that point. But I think if you are starting off a career in fiction writing with an idea that the numbers have to work out from a business perspective, you're going to be disappointed. If you want a good reward per hour worked, almost anything else will be better than writing fiction, unless and until your work either hits it big or you have a large enough body of work that it doesn't have to and you can still do OK.
> 
> My advice, write what you love to write and do the best you possible can at it, and don't look at the hours versus revenue at this point in your career. Or, pick up a pseudonym and write stuff you think you can dash off, and that will sell, and don't worry about quality so much (keeping in mind that a determined person can find out who you are and make the info public)



I think that's my reasoning with writing the fantasy series.  A) it's what I've always wanted to write.  B) it's helping improve my skills.  From those two standpoints, it's worth it.

On the other hand, I plan to take a break after my third draft and wait eight full weeks before starting the 4th.  I'm thinking that I could completely write a scifi adventure rough draft in that amount of time.  Given that it's a good idea to have multiple books out, I'm trying to decide if that would be better or if I should spend that time instead on writing the sequel.


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## BWFoster78 (Aug 30, 2012)

> Or, pick up a pseudonym and write stuff you think you can dash off, and that will sell, and don't worry about quality so much



People love John Ringo even though his writing a lot of the time seems in want of a good editor.


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## Steerpike (Aug 30, 2012)

BWFoster78 said:


> .  Given that it's a good idea to have multiple books out, I'm trying to decide if that would be better or if I should spend that time instead on writing the sequel.



Yeah, that's a good question. I can see branching into science fiction bringing in a new set of readers, many of whom may also be interested in your fantasy work. On the other hand, it sure seems like putting a series together and getting readers invested in that seems to be a good approach in self-publishing. If you switch genres and readers don't follow you, they may have forgotten about you by the time you come back to do the sequel.

I'm doing things concurrently, and I'll let you guys know if that ends up being a huge disaster. I'm working on a YA fantasy I hope to publish by October, and at the same time I'll be publishing a children's book of short stories. By December I hope to have the sequel to my current children's book, and throughout that same period of time the next part of the YA story.

Question is, can I do that I end up with good quality work. I can write about 2000 words in an hour, and sometimes it is really good and needs very little attention. Other times it is complete crap.


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## Steerpike (Aug 30, 2012)

BWFoster78 said:


> People love John Ringo even though his writing a lot of the time seems in want of a good editor.



I've read one of his, and I enjoyed it. I think his fellow Baen author Eric Flint is an editor there as well. Maybe they don't spend much time on John's work. He's got a good following.


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## BWFoster78 (Aug 30, 2012)

Steerpike said:


> I've read one of his, and I enjoyed it. I think his fellow Baen author Eric Flint is an editor there as well. Maybe they don't spend much time on John's work. He's got a good following.



Flint's work is kinda weird for me.  I started reading his 1632 series and loved it.  Then, I reached one of the series that I hated.  Now, I can't even reread the ones I used to like without seeing the flaws.


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## BWFoster78 (Aug 30, 2012)

Steerpike said:


> Yeah, that's a good question. I can see branching into science fiction bringing in a new set of readers, many of whom may also be interested in your fantasy work. On the other hand, it sure seems like putting a series together and getting readers invested in that seems to be a good approach in self-publishing. If you switch genres and readers don't follow you, they may have forgotten about you by the time you come back to do the sequel.
> 
> I'm doing things concurrently, and I'll let you guys know if that ends up being a huge disaster. I'm working on a YA fantasy I hope to publish by October, and at the same time I'll be publishing a children's book of short stories. By December I hope to have the sequel to my current children's book, and throughout that same period of time the next part of the YA story.
> 
> Question is, can I do that I end up with good quality work. I can write about 2000 words in an hour, and sometimes it is really good and needs very little attention. Other times it is complete crap.



Sounds like you and I are in the same place at the moment.  

Oh well, I have several months of editing ahead of me before I have to worry about it.  I'm a little more than halfway done with the 2nd draft and barely scratched the surface on the 3rd.


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## Steerpike (Aug 30, 2012)

BWFoster78 said:


> Flint's work is kinda weird for me.  I started reading his 1632 series and loved it.  Then, I reached one of the series that I hated.  Now, I can't even reread the ones I used to like without seeing the flaws.



I haven't read any of his work. I just know he was one of the editors when Baen's Universe was still going. It's too bad that market died.


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