# The Mandalorian Spoiler Thread



## Garren Jacobsen (Nov 12, 2019)

This is the spoiler thread. 

I loved Ep. 1. 

Will post spoilers in a bit.


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## Garren Jacobsen (Nov 12, 2019)

So far, I think it's a solid first episode. That bar fight scene at the beginning was pimp.



Spoiler



Okay so, Baby Yoda thing. BABY YODA THING! And it's wanted by the empire remnants. WTF is going on guys?


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## Demesnedenoir (Nov 22, 2019)

It has a wild west flavor, a bit like how A New Hope had a bit of that element. Through two episodes my interest is waning... I hold out hope. The Child is cute, but... I dunno, it worries me.


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## Garren Jacobsen (Nov 23, 2019)

Why does it worry you?

Also, that third ep had some great action set pieces.

This is the way.


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## Demesnedenoir (Nov 23, 2019)

Garren Jacobsen said:


> Why does it worry you?
> 
> Also, that third ep had some great action set pieces.
> 
> This is the way.



Playing on nostalgic cute always worries me, might make me gag at some point.


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## Devor (Nov 24, 2019)

I'm enjoying the series.  The characters are interesting, the "package" was a fun surprise, the production value is incredible.

I would say it's actual plot so far has been pretty standard. Ruthless killer refuses to let the baby die and switches sides.  The Star Wars trappings are awesome, and the action is pretty good, but the bones of this story so far are your cookie cutter killer hero. It's still an exciting show to watch.

The next time someone says the hero can't wear a helmet, the Mandalorian is the response.


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## Steerpike (Nov 26, 2019)

I'm enjoying it as well. The kid doesn't bother me. I thought the third episode was the strongest yet.


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## Demesnedenoir (Nov 26, 2019)

I’m still in the I’ll watch, but “meh” category. I am an old school Boba Fett guy so I love the bounty hunter and styling, but the story so far is squishy with potential, and my faith in the Star Wars universe and its storytellers has faded. Now, if I were 18 again, I’d probably be digging it, heh heh.


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## Steerpike (Nov 26, 2019)

Demesnedenoir said:


> I’m still in the I’ll watch, but “meh” category. I am an old school Boba Fett guy so I love the bounty hunter and styling, but the story so far is squishy with potential, and my faith in the Star Wars universe and its storytellers has faded. Now, if I were 18 again, I’d probably be digging it, heh heh.



All the guys showing up with their jet packs was pretty cool


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## Demesnedenoir (Nov 26, 2019)

Oddly enough, I liked the scene right until all the backpacks showed up. I wanted to see Mando fight his way out by brute force or by guile or a combination. The hero is getting bailed out too often for my taste, although I like story potential it all builds on. The gotta get me one of those comments made me chuckle and groan at the same time, so I’ll accept that, heh heh.


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## Steerpike (Nov 26, 2019)

I had a similar thought about the rescue, but I think the potential for that kind of character development in place, and I thought the image of all the Mandalorians flying in was still cool


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## Demesnedenoir (Nov 26, 2019)

The group’s relocation could be an interesting plot hook.


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## FifthView (Nov 26, 2019)

I'm loving it so far. Ep. 3 was easily the best episode yet.

I'm still on the fence re: its future. I want to see where it goes. These short episodes, particularly the way they are styled and threaded, leave so much unsaid, undeveloped, under foreshadowed...well, it could go just about any direction, which includes flopping weakly near the end. So, I'll wait and see.


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## Pemry Janes (Nov 27, 2019)

I do like that he doesn't take the helmet off.

I'm going to know how much I like the show once I see Episode 4, I think.


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## Devor (Nov 27, 2019)

Pemry Janes said:


> I'm going to know how much I like the show once I see Episode 4, I think.



It could be kind of a turning point for the plot.  The Mandolorian has a choice about where to go next.  Most likely he regroups with "I have spoken" guy, but where he goes from there is anyone's guess.  Luke Skywalker is the "Last Jedi" at this point in the timeline, so he seems like a good safe place to take the child, maybe in season 2.


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## Garren Jacobsen (Dec 2, 2019)

Devor said:


> It could be kind of a turning point for the plot.  The Mandolorian has a choice about where to go next.  Most likely he regroups with "I have spoken" guy, but where he goes from there is anyone's guess.  Luke Skywalker is the "Last Jedi" at this point in the timeline, so he seems like a good safe place to take the child, maybe in season 2.


We're getting a Yoda force-sensitive Mandalorian.


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## FifthView (Dec 2, 2019)

We got a filler episode?


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## Garren Jacobsen (Dec 2, 2019)

FifthView said:


> We got a filler episode?


Looks like it. I wonder/hope this will set something else up later. But...doubt it.


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## Devor (Dec 2, 2019)

FifthView said:


> We got a filler episode?



Filler?  No, it's Mando's first, maybe second try/fail cycle in his arc towards accepting his role with the child.  The first was turning him in, and the second, now, was dropping him somewhere safe - there's nowhere that's safe.


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## FifthView (Dec 2, 2019)

Devor said:


> Filler?  No, it's Mando's first, maybe second try/fail cycle in his arc towards accepting his role with the child.  The first was turning him in, and the second, now, was dropping him somewhere safe - there's nowhere that's safe.



I feel as if that could have been done without devoting a whole episode to the familiar trope of stranger riding into town to save the helpless folk from local baddies.


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## FifthView (Dec 2, 2019)

Garren Jacobsen said:


> Looks like it. I wonder/hope this will set something else up later. But...doubt it.



I think that Cara Dune is supposed to show up again in a couple later episodes, so ....

I'm wondering if we'll get some more episodes pairing Mando up with various people, then having them all come together near the end of the season.


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## Devor (Dec 2, 2019)

FifthView said:


> I feel as if that could have been done without devoting a whole episode to the familiar trope of stranger riding into town to save the helpless folk from local baddies.



Who would you pick as an enemy?  If the enemy were bounty hunters, then the character would know at the start of the episode that he couldn't leave the child, and we wouldn't have time to explore the character's growth moment.  I get the impression we'll be seeing more storm troopers soon. The audience would need more time to set up rebellion soldiers as an enemy.  I think a local group makes the most sense, although I suppose it could've been a planet he already had ties to, but they really want to play it slow on this character's reveal.


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## Steerpike (Dec 3, 2019)

FifthView said:


> I feel as if that could have been done without devoting a whole episode to the familiar trope of stranger riding into town to save the helpless folk from local baddies.



I knew right away it was going to be a "Seven Samurai" sort of episode. Seems fine, considering Kurosawa's impact on Star Wars.


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## Demesnedenoir (Dec 3, 2019)

I’m reminded of old westerns, something like Paladin. Insert any roaming hero, really.


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## Steerpike (Dec 4, 2019)

Demesnedenoir said:


> I’m reminded of old westerns, something like Paladin. Insert any roaming hero, really.



I think Seven Samurai predates that show as well. The basic plot is villagers beset by a group of thugs from the mountains near the village. They send some of their fellow villagers out to hire people to help. The seven samurai are hired, come back, teach the villagers to fight so they can defend themselves when the next attack comes (and of course the samurai help too). It's basically the exact same plot. Seven Samurai was adapted as the western The Magnificent Seven for U.S. audiences. 

Kurosawa, who directed Seven Samurai, was an influence on George Lucas. Lucas has talked about the influence The Hidden Fortress had on him. That starred Toshiro Mifune, who was also in Seven Samurai. 

Given all of the above, I figured the Mandalorian episode was probably a conscious nod to Kurosawa and his influence on Star Wars.


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## Steerpike (Dec 4, 2019)

Just after I posted, I found this article: 'The Mandalorian' star Pedro Pascal channeled Han Solo and Clint Eastwood for Disney+

The guy playing the Mandalorian talks about the influence:

“The character is very much built on the iconic presence of the Man With No Name in the Sergio Leone movies, played by Clint Eastwood, [and] the lone samurai in Akira Kurosawa,” he said. “It’s aesthetically and very, very much narratively built in that kind of iconic lone gunslinger/sword-wielder.”

He mentions Sergio Leone's movies, as well as Kurosawa, but it is worth noting that Leone's "Man with No Name" films were directly taken from Kurosawa. "Fistfull of Dollars" is a remake (that can be tracked scene by scene) of Kurosawa's film "Yojimbo" (incidentally, starring Mifune again). Kurosawa actually sued over Yojimbo/Fistfull of Dollars and won. 

Not that this is a critique of any of the films--I like them all, and everything has inspiration (though Leone walked too close to the line between inspiration and ripoff). Kurosawa himself pointed to American writer Dashiell Hammett as an inspiration for Yojimbo.

It does, however, make it seem likely to me that the writers on The Mandalorian were going with a Kurosawa homage.


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## Demesnedenoir (Dec 4, 2019)

The whole thing is a nod to westerns as well, which Star Wars borrowed from, there is no one influence here. The lone gunfighter image along with bounty hunting goes back to the 1860’s and early 1900’s dime novels. Kurosawa himself was influenced by westerns and vice versa. But then I’ve never been a fan of Seven Samurai nor the Magnificent Seven, for whatever that’s worth. Nor Fistfull of Dollars, for that matter. I put that damned near at the bottom of Eastwood cowboy flicks.

I should also note the orc attack on humans to start episode 4, heh heh. The Mandalorian is a mashup of lots of things, and so far, it’s adequately done but it’s not impressing me. Standard stuff, the only thing which keeps me watching is the “cool” factor and hope for something more.



Steerpike said:


> I think Seven Samurai predates that show as well. The basic plot is villagers beset by a group of thugs from the mountains near the village. They send some of their fellow villagers out to hire people to help. The seven samurai are hired, come back, teach the villagers to fight so they can defend themselves when the next attack comes (and of course the samurai help too). It's basically the exact same plot. Seven Samurai was adapted as the western The Magnificent Seven for U.S. audiences.
> 
> Kurosawa, who directed Seven Samurai, was an influence on George Lucas. Lucas has talked about the influence The Hidden Fortress had on him. That starred Toshiro Mifune, who was also in Seven Samurai.
> 
> Given all of the above, I figured the Mandalorian episode was probably a conscious nod to Kurosawa and his influence on Star Wars.


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## FifthView (Dec 6, 2019)

For me, whether the choices are explainable is not the point. Influences can be mapped but...so what? Heh. Nothing new under the sun; so, everything will have influences. The good, the bad, and the merely eh?

I put off watching episode 5, until tomorrow probably, so here's fingers crossed.


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## Garren Jacobsen (Dec 10, 2019)

Spoiler


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## Demesnedenoir (Dec 14, 2019)

OK, I don’t love the series, but it’s good and shows potential, but the short format and episodic feel leaves me a bit flat.


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## Garren Jacobsen (Dec 27, 2019)

Mando has killed two people with doors, and I love it.


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## Demesnedenoir (Dec 27, 2019)

Yes, but how do the doors _feel_ about this? I mean, lawsuits for PTSD could be incoming and he might have to pay off the doors’ lawyers by selling his armor... 



Garren Jacobsen said:


> Mando has killed two people with doors, and I love it.


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## Garren Jacobsen (Dec 31, 2019)

Demesnedenoir said:


> Yes, but how do the doors _feel_ about this? I mean, lawsuits for PTSD could be incoming and he might have to pay off the doors’ lawyers by selling his armor...


They like it. They like being portals to the afterlife. Doors are dicks.


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## Demesnedenoir (Dec 31, 2019)

All and all the season was good, better than most crap available on tv for sure. It doesn't hurt having Oberyn Martell and John Wayne's Grandson in the suit of armor, heh heh.


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## Pemry Janes (Jan 1, 2020)

I very much enjoyed the series, though there was one moment where I was left scratching my head. It's when the bad guy has them in a dead to rights, and he gives them until nightfall?


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## Demesnedenoir (Jan 1, 2020)

Yeah, that is a standout moment no matter how the writing tries to brush it off, LOL. I have additional eye rolling issues, but it was a fun show.



Pemry Janes said:


> I very much enjoyed the series, though there was one moment where I was left scratching my head. It's when the bad guy has them in a dead to rights, and he gives them until nightfall?


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## FifthView (Jan 15, 2020)

Oddly for me, I never finished watching it. Stopped after ep. 4 I think. Dunno. Became distracted, watching other things, and never felt much desire to complete Mandalorian. I'll finish it some day maybe.


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## Demesnedenoir (Jan 15, 2020)

I enjoyed it, but kind of like the Witcher, it just isn’t compelling me to keep watching. But then, I finished watching Sons of Anarchy many years after the show was over, heh heh.



FifthView said:


> Oddly for me, I never finished watching it. Stopped after ep. 4 I think. Dunno. Became distracted, watching other things, and never felt much desire to complete Mandalorian. I'll finish it some day maybe.


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## skip.knox (Jan 20, 2020)

Just binged the whole thing off a free week from Disney and am baffled by the great reviews. I thought the characters were limp stereotypes, with inconsistencies trotted out whenever the plot needed it. And hoo boy did the plot need it. Holes big enough to ride a bantha through. Stuff the writers don't even bother to pretend to justify, like a gigantic walker that just hangs around a bunch of small-time crooks. Who the heck was driving that thing? Why did it pause short of the trap? Who knows? Who cares? Bam! Bam! The river of lava was silly enough, but then our heroes are surprised when the boat keeps moving. Hey guys, it's a river; it moves; gravity; you may have heard of it. And who connects a sewage system big enough to serve all Paris to *lava*?

Most of the acting was wooden and the writing was ... well, to quote a certain someone, you can type this stuff but you can't say it. Pacing was weird, the orchestration in the earlier episodes sounded like it was from a 50s pirate movie and it was mixed low. I just, I can't figure it. Highlight of all eight episodes was those two speeder storm troopers. The dialog was snappy, delivery was good, and for once it didn't sound like someone was writing something out of the Scarlet Pimpernel (all proper props to the baroness). 

Anyway, I'm glad other folks enjoyed it. The sets were good.

Me, I'm glad I didn't pay retail.


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## Yora (Jan 20, 2020)

Do you like Star Wars?


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## Demesnedenoir (Jan 20, 2020)

I agree with a lot of that... and I could pile on. Eventually I shut off my brain and enjoyed the “cool” factor. The story was... I don’t even know what to call it. There was a lot of head-slappers in there. The Mandalorian is a major badass only when he needs to be, the rest of the time he spends life getting the crap kicked out of him.



skip.knox said:


> Just binged the whole thing off a free week from Disney and am baffled by the great reviews. I thought the characters were limp stereotypes, with inconsistencies trotted out whenever the plot needed it. And hoo boy did the plot need it. Holes big enough to ride a bantha through. Stuff the writers don't even bother to pretend to justify, like a gigantic walker that just hangs around a bunch of small-time crooks. Who the heck was driving that thing? Why did it pause short of the trap? Who knows? Who cares? Bam! Bam! The river of lava was silly enough, but then our heroes are surprised when the boat keeps moving. Hey guys, it's a river; it moves; gravity; you may have heard of it. And who connects a sewage system big enough to serve all Paris to *lava*?
> 
> Most of the acting was wooden and the writing was ... well, to quote a certain someone, you can type this stuff but you can't say it. Pacing was weird, the orchestration in the earlier episodes sounded like it was from a 50s pirate movie and it was mixed low. I just, I can't figure it. Highlight of all eight episodes was those two speeder storm troopers. The dialog was snappy, delivery was good, and for once it didn't sound like someone was writing something out of the Scarlet Pimpernel (all proper props to the baroness).
> 
> ...


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## Demesnedenoir (Jan 20, 2020)

The better Walker question is... why would it even get close to that simplistic, stupid trap in the first place? heh heh. As my wife might say... because it’s in the script.



skip.knox said:


> Just binged the whole thing off a free week from Disney and am baffled by the great reviews. I thought the characters were limp stereotypes, with inconsistencies trotted out whenever the plot needed it. And hoo boy did the plot need it. Holes big enough to ride a bantha through. Stuff the writers don't even bother to pretend to justify, like a gigantic walker that just hangs around a bunch of small-time crooks. Who the heck was driving that thing? Why did it pause short of the trap? Who knows? Who cares? Bam! Bam! The river of lava was silly enough, but then our heroes are surprised when the boat keeps moving. Hey guys, it's a river; it moves; gravity; you may have heard of it. And who connects a sewage system big enough to serve all Paris to *lava*?
> 
> Most of the acting was wooden and the writing was ... well, to quote a certain someone, you can type this stuff but you can't say it. Pacing was weird, the orchestration in the earlier episodes sounded like it was from a 50s pirate movie and it was mixed low. I just, I can't figure it. Highlight of all eight episodes was those two speeder storm troopers. The dialog was snappy, delivery was good, and for once it didn't sound like someone was writing something out of the Scarlet Pimpernel (all proper props to the baroness).
> 
> ...


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## skip.knox (Jan 20, 2020)

Yora said:


> Do you like Star Wars?


The first three, sure. After that, not so much. I think that's because Star Wars really was revolutionary, unlike anything that had come before, so even though the plot and writing weren't all that brilliant, the overall effect was. By the time of the later movies, they were more like also-rans because other brilliant SF movies had come along.

But staying strictly within the framework of the Star Wars movies, The Mandalorian struck me as a significant step down. Which is why I'm puzzled why the reviews are so strong. Heck, I thought the writing and acting on Clone Wars was better.


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## skip.knox (Jan 20, 2020)

>because it’s in the script.
Exactly this. If the sets had been cheap, this could have been one of those groaner SF television shows from the 70s.


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## Demesnedenoir (Jan 20, 2020)

Rogue One is the only one of the newer movies I put up there with the originals... and it’s the one most closely related to the originals... go figure. And I think you’re right, in part, but what New Hope in particular was is FUN. It was really the characters you came to love in IV that carried V and VI for me, not story. A point to make is that in the 70’s movies trended “heavier” and more serious, so this sort of sci-fantasy hit a market primed for it. 



skip.knox said:


> The first three, sure. After that, not so much. I think that's because Star Wars really was revolutionary, unlike anything that had come before, so even though the plot and writing weren't all that brilliant, the overall effect was. By the time of the later movies, they were more like also-rans because other brilliant SF movies had come along.
> 
> But staying strictly within the framework of the Star Wars movies, The Mandalorian struck me as a significant step down. Which is why I'm puzzled why the reviews are so strong. Heck, I thought the writing and acting on Clone Wars was better.


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## Gray-Hand (Jan 27, 2020)

I like that they cast a solid, muscular woman in the Cara Dune role rather than the usual waif from central casting.  Hope it catches on.


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## Zander Willmore (Jan 29, 2020)

I kind of liked this show.  But a few things in the last episode bothered me.  Number one Mandy had been kicking stormtrooper butt for most of the time.  He was just one man and they couldnt stop him.  So how did a squad of troopers take down a whole colony of Mandos?  And the metal that the Mados use  is much saught after yet the troopers leave a whole freaken pile of it behind.  Wouldnt they want that?  Then when they were on the river of lava (how did the boat not melt) and they saw the troopers waiting for them they panicked.  They have been destroying this guys at every encounter so why worry so much about just a few waiting for them?

Zander who is bothered by the little things.


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## Demesnedenoir (Jan 29, 2020)

Zander Willmore said:


> So how did a squad of troopers take down a whole colony of Mandos?



THIS is easy to explain... it was the ONE squad of Stormtroopers capable of hitting the broadside of a bantha. My theory is that the rest of the crack stormtroopers were trained to fire warning shots and never hit anybody.


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## FifthView (Jan 29, 2020)

The fact that the region of the Empire/Rebellion is soooo huge and not one single person in its long history ever figured out how to invent auto targeting for laser weapons—and also, that clunkers can be cobbled together and flown in space without a care in the world—.... Well, I could go on.


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## Garren Jacobsen (Dec 19, 2020)

IT'S BACK!!!!! AND IT'S DONE AND IT WAS GREAT!!

Holy poop, what a great season finale! Also, Boba vs Bo for the Mandalorian throne?


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## Devor (Dec 19, 2020)

It was really cool.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I was personally.... disappointed? Or maybe just saddened? And yet still excited? by the choice of Jedi who responded because of the ending that followed. I was hoping for a different choice.  There are Jedi candidates who I thought could have trained Grogu in the force and explored his dark side tendencies while staying with Mando.  But the Jedi who came did what he was always going to do, and I'm nervous about whether Season 3 will have the same impact because of it.


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## Garren Jacobsen (Dec 19, 2020)

Devor said:


> It was really cool.
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> I was personally.... disappointed? Or maybe just saddened? And yet still excited? by the choice of Jedi who responded because of the ending that followed. I was hoping for a different choice.  There are Jedi candidates who I thought could have trained Grogu in the force and explored his dark side tendencies while staying with Mando.  But the Jedi who came did what he was always going to do, and I'm nervous about whether Season 3 will have the same impact because of it.


Perhaps, but there is gonna be a lot more pew-pew. The fight for Mandalore will be cuh-razy!


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## Devor (Dec 19, 2020)

Garren Jacobsen said:


> Perhaps, but there is gonna be a lot more pew-pew. The fight for Mandalore will be cuh-razy!



Ahh, that's another thing, I haven't seen the Clone Wars series, so Bo-Catan, the Darksaber, the fight for Mandalore.... I'm not invested in any of that stuff as of yet.

It was cool to see the post-credits scene.  A good fit for the Fett.


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## Garren Jacobsen (Dec 19, 2020)

Devor said:


> Ahh, that's another thing, I haven't seen the Clone Wars series, so Bo-Catan, the Darksaber, the fight for Mandalore.... I'm not invested in any of that stuff as of yet.
> 
> It was cool to see the post-credits scene.  A good fit for the Fett.


Man, the last season of the Clone Wars has some of the best Star Wars stuff you will ever see. The ending scene. *chef's kiss*


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## Devor (Dec 19, 2020)

Garren Jacobsen said:


> Man, the last season of the Clone Wars has some of the best Star Wars stuff you will ever see. The ending scene. *chef's kiss*



I tried putting it on for the kids but they just weren't interested.  And my wife doesn't have that much time.  It's hard for me to spend that much time on a show that long if none of the other people in my home will watch it with me.


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## Garren Jacobsen (Dec 19, 2020)

Devor said:


> I tried putting it on for the kids but they just weren't interested.  And my wife doesn't have that much time.  It's hard for me to spend that much time on a show that long if none of the other people in my home will watch it with me.


My kids were much the same, but once they got a few episodes in, they were _in_!


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## Garren Jacobsen (Dec 19, 2020)

Also, why is Star Wars short form media (clone wars rebels and now Mandalorian) so much better than the recent long form shows


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## Gray-Hand (Dec 19, 2020)

The shows have either one mind directing the overall narrative or at least a shared vision between the storytellers collaborating on the movie.  They all know where they are going with the story.  You can see how John Favreau works to build that environment with the directors (who are all individually really good storytellers) if you watch the ‘gallery’ episodes from season 1.

That just did not happen between JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson.  JJ probably didn’t have enough time to put together a story for an entire trilogy before making the first one and then handing it over to someone else - exactly like what he did with Lost.  But Rian Johnson pulled a real dick move by writing a script which ditched a lot of what had been set up in the first movie and generally shitting on the source material.  He is not a team player and just should not have been given the job.  If you set out to make a trilogy, you need to plan a story that is told over three movies - don’t just make it up as you go along.

When the audience realises that the storytellers are  just making it up on the fly, they stop caring.  The third movie never stood a chance for that reason.


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## Devor (Dec 20, 2020)

Yeah, we've talked about that elsewhere.... the LOTR movies were all filmed together before the first one released, so were Infinity Wars and Endgame. But with the Star Wars trilogy, they didn't even decide on Palpatine's return until after episode 8 was released.  That's just shoddy planning. It's disappointing that Lucasfilm would botch something so important to them so badly.

It's really great to see Favreau working well with a lot of different directors for the Mandalorian.  I'd like to hope he's training them to run the future of Star Wars.


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