# Do large breasts interfere with use of a two-handed sword?



## James Chandler (Nov 19, 2014)

Disclaimer 1: This may have been asked before, but I could not find anything through a search.

Disclaimer 2: My interest is strictly professional, not prurient.

Disclaimer 3: Not really sure is this is the right forum for the question.

So, I've noticed that women, especially if they are well endowed, tend to sit closer to the steering wheel than men when they drive to because it is more comfortable to hold the wheel on the sides. In contrast, men tend to rest their hands on the top of the wheel, crossing their arms across their chests. (This is a completely unscientific observation, strictly anecdotal). We have seen plenty of women using swords in movies and television. I've seen women do sword demonstrations live, including some who were very shapely. But, I don't think I have ever seen a woman with large breasts using a two-handed sword. Most women use them one-handed. Women I've seen using a two-handed style tend to be flat-chested (not that there is anything wrong with that). I know breast size does not really affect archery or a lot of other things. 

I am not looking for an absolute answer, because I can see different women approaching the whole thing differently. Is it realistic that a larger woman would avoid a two-handed sword or at least choose a different weapon based on her physique? This could be a very small detail or a major plot-point depending on context.


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## Saigonnus (Nov 19, 2014)

I can't imagine it would; though I guess it would depend on your definition of "large-breasted". In the real world, when a woman builds up her physique muscle-wise; through regular strenuous activity, it tends to reduce the size of her breasts at least a bit and replace the underlying tissue with muscle instead. It goes for one-handed weapons and martial arts in general. Add that to her wearing a breastplate or armor; which would cinch them down a bit beneath them, I doubt it would be an issue. Like being left-handed, it may simply be something she would need to get used to.


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## Hainted (Nov 19, 2014)

In realistic armor I would imagine it would be like wearing a sports bra. Keep them in place and out of the way. But unless she just suddenly develops large breasts instantly, she would have trained with them and been used to them so she should be as proficient as a smaller sized woman.


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## psychotick (Nov 19, 2014)

Hi,

Swords I don't know. But the most famous warrior women of history - the amazons - used to cut off their right breast so that they could pull back the draw string of a bow.

Cheers, Greg.


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## Tom (Nov 19, 2014)

Don't know about two-handed swords, but in fencing I've noticed that the bigger-busted ladies tend to hold their weapons so their arms are positioned closer to their chests, lessening the strain of the jacket across the chest and increasing range. The plastic chest protectors we wear for bouts are a little like breastplates, and they do somewhat compress the chest. And whether you're male or female, those damn things _pinch_. But I digress.

I usually wear a flat one, but once I lost mine and had to use one of the club's women's chest protectors. They're shaped to    accommodate the breasts. Man, talk about uncomfortable! I couldn't move my arms across my chest without the stupid thing getting in the way. Not to mention that the breast-bump-thingies guide your opponent's blade tip _right into the middle of your chest, which is the ideal target area!_ But I digress again.

So yes, larger breasts would probably restrict mobility, especially arm movement across the chest. For a large-chested warrior woman I'd recommend something like a rapier, since it's a one-handed weapon, and the guard position falls on one side of the body instead of in the middle, so arm reach wouldn't be too big of a problem.


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## cupiscent (Nov 20, 2014)

Tom Nimenai said:


> Not to mention that the breast-bump-thingies guide your opponent's blade tip _right into the middle of your chest, which is the ideal target area!_


And that, right there, is the reason why breastplates-with-breasts are a stupid idea. I get why artists like them, but they're just plain unrealistic.

Of course, as Hainted pointed out: women with breasts are used to having breasts. It's not the same as suddenly having them there. They're part of the topography. It might be an interesting question for a woman being trained by a man, though. She couldn't necessarily do things the way he did them or told her to do them. But we find a way. And we usually find it without cutting a breast off. Not to mention, as also previously noted, sports bras and equivalent support-without-enhancement underwear doesn't _present_ the girls like modern bras do.


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## BronzeOracle (Nov 20, 2014)

I read an article on the amazon myth that cutting off / burning a breast would be incredibly traumatic and probably fatal in ancient times, so if amazons ever did exist they probably didn't do this.  Its one thing to cut the skin (as many tribal cultures do/did) another to remove a large part of the body.  The pictures of amazons on pots etc always show them with both breasts.  And as cupiscent said, people find a way to do what they need to do and ideally without risking death!


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## Butterfly (Nov 20, 2014)

Firstly, the way any driver is supposed to hold a steering wheel is with both hands on the sides, at 10 and 2 not with one hand on top or the bottom, and definitely not with hands croseed over the chest. It's a matter of steering control and driving correctly and with safety and nothing to do with breast size.

On the other hand, how do you know if those women you've seen using two handed swords are actually as flat chested as they seem? How do you know they haven't simply strapped their boobs up with bondage tape?


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## psychotick (Nov 20, 2014)

Hi,

Well I'm not going to weigh in on the accuracy of the legend - the amazons may not have existed at all. (Should have said that before - sorry.) But my understanding is that their very name amazon means one breasted or without breast. Also that it was done in childhood by means of a burning rod.

Cheers Greg.


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## Penpilot (Nov 20, 2014)

Each person is unique. What bothers one person may not bother anther. Two women with very similar body types can have polar opposite issues and abilities. One may have back problems because of their large chests while the other may have no issues at all. One may be agile while the other may be clumsy. One may be able to swing a two-handed sword while the other may not.

Don't think in generalities. Think in specifics. What abilities and characteristics does your character have? There are always exceptions to the rule, so any character can be the exception.

For example, the average height in the NBA is 6'7". So generally speaking you have to be around that height to make it as a professional basketball player. BUT then you have Mugsy Bogues 5"3" who not only made it into the NBA, he could slam dunk. 

So to answer your question, it depends. It depends on the character and how you define them. And you can define them how ever you want. Because there are infinite variations to people and their abilites, and one of those variations will be the woman with the big chest that can swing a two handed sword without issue.


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## Tom (Nov 20, 2014)

cupiscent said:


> And that, right there, is the reason why breastplates-with-breasts are a stupid idea. I get why artists like them, but they're just plain unrealistic.



This is one of my biggest pet peeves as a fantasy artist. They're just so impractical. And in fact, downright dangerous.


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## wordwalker (Nov 20, 2014)

So true, getting cleaved for the sake of cleavage just isn't right.

Agree with all points, and here's one more: the whole decision to use a two-handed weapon, for _anyone,_ is highly personal anyway. We've had threads about this, and some cultures were partial to them (vikings, some Celtic groups, and of course the Japanese). But all in all, weapon-and-shield is safer and might be more effective over a long fight. If someone trains for a two-handed weapon it's because their people like them, or everyone is in full plate armor anyway, or they just choose pure offence over balance. For a decision like that, breast size ought to be the least of her issues.


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## stephenspower (Nov 20, 2014)

I can't speak to the issue as a woman, but I can as a golfer. I have read that large-breasted golfers can have a bit of a problem because a good grip requires your arms to make a triangle with the hands at the tip and your shoulders as the base. Large breasts would thus be constricted or force the golfer's arms out of good alignment. Using a two-handed sword, according to various videos I've watched might cause the same problem. They weren't wielded like a rapier or a baseball bat, but with an almost a baton-like twirling motion that might require the same triangular constriction for good form. Of course, proper armor that would bulge across chest to guide blows away from the vitals, would obviate the underlying issue.


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## Legendary Sidekick (Nov 20, 2014)

I tend to use two-handers for imagery (looks more heroic than a shield), and when a woman wields one she is either a large barbarian (muscular, not large as is "well endowed") or an athletic monster huntress. My petite monk (I prefer the term "fighting nun") has bandages under her robes to hold everything in place, and I imagine my armored characters do something similar to simulate the yet-to-be-invented sports bra.

For reasons already stated, female armor should not offer Victoria's Secret type support. Female armor should look like male armor. You'd think companies that make fencing gear would know better than to funnel the pointy end straight into the sternum.

EDIT - I'd imagine if the breasts are very large, it might limit mobility like what the post says above about golfers. In that case, her sense of self-preservation might lead her to another weapon of choice.


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## Tom (Nov 20, 2014)

Legendary Sidekick said:


> For reasons already stated, female armor should not offer Victoria's Secret type support. Female armor should look like male armor. You'd think companies that make fencing gear would know better than to funnel the pointy end straight into the sternum.



Yeah, you'd think. It's a problem that a lot of female fencers complain about (including my coach), and most wear men's flat chest protectors instead.


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## glutton (Nov 20, 2014)

wordwalker said:


> But all in all, weapon-and-shield is safer and might be more effective over a long fight. If someone trains for a two-handed weapon it's because their people like them, or everyone is in full plate armor anyway, or they just choose pure offence over balance.



That or in a fantasy setting, the heavy two-handed weapon is better at cleaving dragons. XD


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## Mythopoet (Nov 20, 2014)

I've never fenced or had any experience with using a sword other than sometimes swinging around the one I got from the Ren Fest, but as someone with breasts on the larger side (though probably not approaching anime standards for large breasts) I do feel like they can be a huge pain sometimes. I actually have a tendency to wear bras more on the sports bra side for that reason. Anything else tends not to be supportive enough. And wearing a bra vs. wearing none is vastly different. You really need good support. One thing to think about is that they make a difference in how your body is balanced. I've often wished I had smaller breasts.


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## Vilya (Nov 20, 2014)

First of all I agree with everyone on the ridiculousness of what I call "boobie plate armor."  I really think that by the time breasts are bound down by the armor they wouldn't be any more obstructive then large pectoral muscles on a man.


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## BronzeOracle (Nov 20, 2014)

Vilya said:


> First of all I agree with everyone on the ridiculousness of what I call "boobie plate armor."  I really think that by the time breasts are bound down by the armor they wouldn't be any more obstructive then large pectoral muscles on a man.



Yes, and we all know Arnie managed to not stumble over his pecs while wielding a two handed sword in Conan!


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## Mythopoet (Nov 20, 2014)

Yeah, but women's breasts aren't composed of muscles, which makes it completely different.


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## Trick (Nov 20, 2014)

I'll say... a woman I know... is very short and had to wear G size bras at 18 years old. She was also not remotely overweight, it was just random genetics. She took fencing when she was younger, before physically maturing, and she has said that fencing with that breast size would be very difficult without a very expensive sports bra, and even then they'd get in the way. Now, she has short arms, being of smaller stature, so a much taller, more broadly built woman (which wouldn't be far off of just being an 'average' woman, to be honest) might have less difficulty and there's certainly something to be said for being used to your own body. 

Anyway, she had a breast reduction at 21 because of back pain and the fear of what might happen after having kids. Good thing too, she now has kids and she has gone up two to three cup sizes from being a C after the surgery. I know that even at that large size, she says she is more mobile/agile than in her late teens. So, I think the breast to body ratio really plays a part.


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## Malik (Nov 20, 2014)

First off, I just wanted to say that this is officially my favorite thread ever, as it contains two subjects that I hold as dear as life itself.

Ahem.

That said, you're rarely "swinging" a two-handed greatsword. Most of the time it was wielded one-handed (unless it was a true, six-foot zweihander or Claymore) and a good deal of the two-handed work is done by changing grips; you can slash and parry by gripping the pommel with the webbing of your thumb and forefinger of your off-hand and levering the tip, which makes for much better point control than fighting with it like it's a baseball bat. 

Most of the fighting with a two-hander is pretty much stand-up catch wrestling, as well; there's a lot of locking up the blades in a clinch, a joint lock, or _prise de fer_, and then tripping, shoving, throwing, punching, kicking, and head-butting until your opponent is either off-balance and wide open, or face down in the mud. Then you deliver the _coup de grace_, and move on to the next.














There is also a lot of half-sword work, where you grab the blade at the halfway point with your off-hand and maneuver it like a much smaller sword. There is such a spectacular amount of leverage and cutting power in those last few inches of blade that swinging for the fences isn't necessary. Although it looks cool.







Usually.

Swinging a sword with both hands in a large arc will be problematic if she is truly gifted. But she could probably work around it by coming up with other maneuvers. I'm sure she's had to compensate for her issue before. Use your imagination. I'm using mine right now, and it's awesome. 

The only thing we can really do here, in the name of research, of course, is find a tremendously well-endowed woman who's good with a greatsword, put her in something revealing enough that we can see all of the, um, body mechanics (for science, of course), and have her demonstrate. 

Make sure you get video of this, though, because the YouTube ad revenues will be your retirement.


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## Legendary Sidekick (Nov 20, 2014)

+111 rep points having an awesome imagination.

Plus, it was educational.


EDIT +1,111 to whoever posts that YouTube video.


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## SM-Dreamer (Nov 28, 2014)

I don't know much about sword fighting, but as a well-endowed woman, I can tell you that my breasts get in the way a lot. I cannot cross my arms directly over my chest without them being obstructed. Playing around with a toy sword means that my arms are either brushing against or squishing my breasts, but I'm not sure how much that would impair me if I were actually using a sword for real.

Maybe I need to learn to use a sword, then get back to you


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## spectre (Dec 10, 2014)

Not if you take them to an enchanter and have them augmented.


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## AllegedObserver (Dec 21, 2014)

A thought comes to my mind.  Women are generally (not always, but usually) not as strong as men. Especially in a society where sword play is going on. Men tend to eat specialized diets (loads of carbs and proteins to build muscle and bulk). A woman warrior would need to learn a fighting style that would give her an advantage against larger opponents. This would likely include speed and agility - two things in which large breasts would not do well with. I'm not saying its impossible. But I, strictly as a layman here and not a medieval weapons expert, would think some of the speedy maneuvers would be compromised with large breasts, possibly even throwing one off balance from time to time.  Just my two cents.


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## stephenspower (Dec 21, 2014)

I just realized a possible answer to the question is the experience of Simona Halep, the world #3 tennis player. Swinging a racket isn't much different than a sword in terms of range of motion, and swordplay also calls for quick feet, balance and a strong stance. As noted in her Wikipedia entry:

"At almost 18 years old, Halep decided that her large bust was interfering with her game. She underwent breast reduction to reduce her bust size to 34C from 34DD. She explained the decision, saying, 'It's the weight that troubles me. My ability to react quickly, my breasts make me uncomfortable when I play. I don’t like them in my everyday life, either. I would have gone for surgery even if I hadn’t been a sportswoman.' ...She later revealed her reduced bust size at the French Open in May 2010. Since the surgery, she has moved up over 450 places in the world rankings."


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## Nimue (Dec 21, 2014)

My first reaction to this--is there a reason why this hypothetical warrior character _needs_ to have large breasts and what kind of story would this be exactly? 

Boobs can get in the way, of course.  But strenuous physical exercise and muscle development, like a swordswoman would experience, tends to reduce the size of one's fat reserves.  Also, restrictive garments are often worn underneath armor for men, and could flatten things out fairly well for women.  Breasts aren't water balloons (with, you know, some exceptions): don't underestimate the squishiness.


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## AllegedObserver (Dec 22, 2014)

Nimue said:


> Boobs can get in the way, of course.  But strenuous physical exercise and muscle development, like a swordswoman would experience, tends to reduce the size of one's fat reserves.



I had thought of this when I wrote the previous post, however not being a medically trained person, I felt it might be wrong in saying so.  I agree with you about the type of story angle, however.  Unless its an issue of Heavy Metal or something, most stories these are a little more realistic when it comes to such things.



Nimue said:


> don't underestimate the squishiness.



I promise... I won't. :smile:


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## 2WayParadox (Dec 22, 2014)

Moving away from the two-hander issue for a bit here.

Say you have a well-endowed female character, it could be a warrior but it doesn't necessarily have to be (she could be undercover in a harem for example). What would be her ideal weapon in a world where she has a good chance to run into people wielding two-handers, most likely by men? I'm not asking to take concealment or anything into account, just pure killing effectiveness in as many situations as possible.


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## Butterfly (Dec 22, 2014)

> What would be her ideal weapon in a world where she has a good chance to run into people wielding two-handers, most likely by men?



I'd say her breasts as they are clearly her weapons of mass distraction.


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## glutton (Dec 22, 2014)

2WayParadox said:


> Moving away from the two-hander issue for a bit here.
> 
> Say you have a well-endowed female character, it could be a warrior but it doesn't necessarily have to be (she could be undercover in a harem for example). What would be her ideal weapon in a world where she has a good chance to run into people wielding two-handers, most likely by men? I'm not asking to take concealment or anything into account, just pure killing effectiveness in as many situations as possible.



If you want to keep her away from the men a spear or ranged weapon like a crossbow could be good.

OTOH she could just be stronger than most guys she meets and wield a giant two-hander herself XD


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## wordwalker (Dec 22, 2014)

Reach is a good answer, yes. Pole arms or ranged attacks. (Just don't give her throwing daggers until you look up how absurd those are.)

Or if she really wants to show off her speed, we've had some discussion of dual-wielding. It seems like it's feasible if she's truly amdidextrous and trains twice as hard, and would let her carve someone up as long as she can block his attack.

Actually, I think a greatsword has enough leverage that a strong wielder can stagger (and then finish off) someone much stronger with one solid hit, as long as she has the skill to land that hit. (Vital if the other guy has his own greatsword and more power.) Some of our more experienced fighters can weigh in here.

I think the only style she might have trouble with is the most common, good old weapon-and-shield. It's a good mode, safe enough that it gives a skilled fighter time to outmaneuver her foes-- but when you don't have stunt coordinators around, the obvious maneuver is always to compare your weight against your enemy's and consider just bashing them off-balance, shield against shield. A woman might be skilled, strong, and know how to use her strength effectively-- but if you give her a shield and don't make her literally as massive as a man, every soldier she fights will use that on her.


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## glutton (Dec 22, 2014)

wordwalker said:


> I think the only style she might have trouble with is the most common, good old weapon-and-shield. It's a good mode, safe enough that it gives a skilled fighter time to outmaneuver her foes-- but when you don't have stunt coordinators around, the obvious maneuver is always to compare your weight against your enemy's and consider just bashing them off-balance, shield against shield. A woman might be skilled, strong, and know how to use her strength effectively-- but if you give her a shield and don't make her literally as massive as a man, every soldier she fights will use that on her.



Perhaps, but it wouldn't necessarily be a much bigger issue than for many male fantasy heroes who often aren't described as particularly large. There probably isn't a massive weight difference between the typical skinny teenage boy hero and say a 160 lb female battle tank, which isn't overly huge.


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## Surad (Dec 22, 2014)

I haven't read all of the posts in this thread thoroughly, so I don't know if this has been mentioned.

It's actually an interesting question. I'm not that sure... but if it helps, here's an interesting tidbit. During the filming of Conan the Barbarian in 1982, the director told Arnold to relax his chest workouts because his chest muscles were getting so big that they were actually interfering with his ability to handle the two-handed sword in the movie.

So... at least for men, it's something that needs concern. Having a hulked out bodybuilder physique can actually put them at a disadvantage. I would think that for women with very large breasts it would interfere, but I don't know how big they have to be in order for that to happen.


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## 2WayParadox (Dec 22, 2014)

I guess a decent arbitrary line for 'big enough to be cumbersome' would be a D cup, unless the woman is small.


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## Ruby (Dec 22, 2014)

Hi, I'm trying to decide if this is serious thread or not.

Are we discussing men with big breasts and two-handed swords or just women?

Of course, if our hypothetical female warrior has the dimensions of a Barbie she would probably topple over, with or without a sword.

Perhaps, our female warrior lives in medieval times. I don't think bras would have been invented so how would she manage? More research is needed! 

Btw, is there an equivalent thread for men with certain attributes experiencing difficulties when wearing armour/armor?

I've just seen the latest Hobbit film, and that female elf seemed to be able to kill a lot of orcs with her sword. I can't remember, did she use both hands or not? Perhaps, this isn't a problem for elves.


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## glutton (Dec 22, 2014)

Somewhat off topic, I did a search just now and found this picture...







So adorable, reminds me a bit of my character Blackbird. Sword size is about right. XD


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## psychotick (Dec 22, 2014)

Hi,

Purely on the greatsword versus sword and board, I would think the latter would be most effective. If your woman is quick enough with her shield to block the guys greatsword attacks, the balls are in her court. There's a couple of reasons for this. The first is simple exhaustion. How many blows can someone with a greatsword manage before he's gasping for breath and tiring? Also since his sword is larger and heavier, it's got to be slower. That means if the woman is quick she has the chance to strike back at the man after his blow is deflected and while he's open. And as one other point, stagger can affect both parties. If she can deflect the blow properly, she may actually stagger him.

Cheers, Greg.


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## Caged Maiden (Dec 22, 2014)

hey guys, I just wanted to ask a question/ raise another point about armor (I'm not sure which yet).  

Okay, so historical plate mail was pointed in the center like a ship's hull for lack of analogy, so blades would not pierce the center, and instead slide off.  Just like helms, shields, probably other stuff I can't think of right now.  Well, I'm a fencer too, and there are a few things I've noticed because we don't wear metal armor, or plate specifically.  We wear soft armor over everything else, say, I have a chain shirt, my doublet goes over that, but I've seen a lot of women fencing and I just wanted to add to the armor question.  Do you notice that trend (of the sword point being guided to the sternum) with soft armor over the plastic?  I'm just curious.  I use the two small plastic cups and they work fine for me, but getting struck in the sternum or well, anywhere else with a stout blow leaves a pretty good bruise and isn't fun.  I've only had to walk off the field injured once, but that was a really nasty blow to my lower abdomen and there really isn't any protection for that ( I might have to make some because I was out for almost four months).

Okay, now to curvier women.

The women I've seen fencing.  Okay, I'm strictly speaking observation here, not anything else.  The good fencers tend to be tall men who are rather thin.  Next, the shorter guys who use speed and teamwork to bring down the guys who obviously have the reach advantage and only skill can compensate for that because their reach isn't going to grow seven inches unless they grow monkey arms.  Okay, so as far as women are concerned, the best women I've seen tend to have an average body type.  They aren't thin (I'm pretty thin, but I'm 5'3" and 125 and I'm not an ideal body type for fencing) but they are taller and rather average.  Those women, with C or D cup breasts are not hindered at all by what we do, which isn't inline fencing, but sword-fighting in rugged terrain, rain, muddy banks, open fields in teams, etc. 

The thing I was considering was where my curvier companions fit into this thing.  Okay, and again, this is my observation alone...but my curvier companions are not the athletes that the average women tend to be.  Now, that being said, I do not know any women who have really big breasts, that aren't also quite round everywhere else.  I know it's possible because I've seen it on many women outside fencing, but we don't have any in our group.  I'd be interested in knowing how often that occurs.  Like, in 150 lb women, what are their average cup size and what is the extreme limit naturally.  Then what are those percentages.  Because I think that's the research that would most help in determining this sort of thing.  It's crazy the number of average women who have been altered now.  Many more than one might guess, because most just "enhance".  I knew a really beautiful, tall woman who looked just stunning, but for some reason, she didn't feel as "big" as she wanted to be, so she got "enhanced" and you'd never guess it because she selected a D cup that looked perfectly natural, but my point is, a lot more women have D or DD cups now than ever before for two reasons, one, we're a society that have more than enough food, two, we have estrogen flowing in our water sources because of decades of pesticide and those synthetic hormones from our environments cause all manner of glandular problems they didn't have 100 years ago, and three, because surgery is huge and women who don't like how they look at 18 can go get "enhanced" and no one ever knows the difference.

As far as warriors, I think this goes down to a single thing we aren't really touching on, but body type.  There are endomorphs, ectomorphs, and mesomorphs, and all around the mesomorphs have it.  For the men and for the women, they are the strongest body type on the fencing field.  While ectomorphic men have the very best reach advantage possible and therefore have to work less than everyone else and expend less energy in most situations, the men and women with greatest stamina tend to prevail in the end of our sometimes 90 minutes of little rest.  Now, I know we're talking about specifically breasts, but I think we have that base covered like one of those expensive sports bras I've been hearing all about.  For those of us writing sword-fighters, I just wanted to add that one thing in there, because while street brawls tend to be settled in four minutes or less, field battles can rage for much longer.  Skill plays part in the equation, body type, conditioning, and mettle.  It's like MMA, really.  Except when we play, when you "die" you don't really lose, you run 100 yards to your resurrection point and get back in the battle, or you sit on the sidelines and wait for the next round.  My instructor is a man of 5'8"-ish and he's hard core.  Super skilled and has a lot of heart.  He has to work to overcome the reach of one of our guys who's 6'4" and fights with a 45" blade and a 43".  I mean, reach is the game in fencing.  I'm not sure what the game is in two-handed swords because I've never used one, but I'd say the more convincing the rest of her accumulated package of skills/ training/ tenacity/ whatever, the more convincing she'll be as a character, despite her figure.


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## AllegedObserver (Dec 22, 2014)

Ruby said:


> I've just seen the latest Hobbit film, and that female elf seemed to be able to kill a lot of orcs with her sword. I can't remember, did she use both hands or not? Perhaps, this isn't a problem for elves.



Not sure if that is something to compare to. I did see the latest Hobbit movie, and orcs fall down and die if they get touched by a shield - although to be fair, there could be magic shields that Tolkien forgot to mention. Oh wait... Hollywood... right.


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## 2WayParadox (Dec 22, 2014)

I don't think Tolkien elves can be used as a reference, they're just too overpowered. They're better at EVERYTHING and they're super long lived. Boohoo that they can't have a lot of kids. I can't remember if Legolas does it int he book as well, but I remember he walks over snow in the movie, without making indentations. I mean come on.

end of rant


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## stephenspower (Dec 22, 2014)

yea my one problem with 5 armies was that an untrained, unarmored fisherman with a rusty sword could drop a larger, well-trained, well-armored orc by slapping his chest plate with the side of his blade.


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## stephenspower (Dec 22, 2014)

I think it was Malik who pointed out that great swords weren't use for slashing and piercing so much as they were for destroying one's armor and puliverizing the body within.

As to changing body shapes, I would add, We simply eat more now. That's why the rich were called fat cats and depicted as obese. They could afford food.


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## BronzeOracle (Dec 24, 2014)

glutton said:


> Perhaps, but it wouldn't necessarily be a much bigger issue than for many male fantasy heroes who often aren't described as particularly large. There probably isn't a massive weight difference between the typical skinny teenage boy hero and say a 160 lb female battle tank, which isn't overly huge.



Hmmm, reminds me of the fight between Paris and Menelaus in 'Troy'.  A slim, inexperienced youth against a battle hardened, heavier, stronger man.  Menelaus bashed Paris into submission - he didn't even bother to use his shield.  I thought it was a well shot scene.


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## BronzeOracle (Dec 24, 2014)

stephenspower said:


> yea my one problem with 5 armies was that an untrained, unarmored fisherman with a rusty sword could drop a larger, well-trained, well-armored orc by slapping his chest plate with the side of his blade.



Peter Jackson is a bit hit and miss (sorry the pun) with his action.  I loved his scenes with the cave troll in Fellowship of the Ring, they were just fantastic.  But having horses pushing over dozens of brutishly strong orcs, and Eowen cutting the tendons of a massive Mumakil, one sword in each hand....


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