# Editors...



## Androxine Vortex (Nov 5, 2012)

I know the purpose of an editor is to well, edit. But whenever I look at my work I can always go back and see something that needs to be fixed. Not really a typo but more grammar mistakes. My question is, would it be possible to be rejected due to too many mistakes? Now obviously I am not talking about every word misspelled and there aren't any periods anywhere. But would could that happen? I am always trying to improve my skills and write as best as I can.


----------



## Steerpike (Nov 5, 2012)

Yes, it can certainly happen. Editors have a lot of manuscripts to read through and a lot of times you end up looking for a reason to discard one and go to the next one, just to get through the slush pile. Grammatical and typographical errors can certainly cause an editor to reject a manuscript. If there are a lot of them, I'd say a rejection is very likely.


----------



## Twook00 (Nov 5, 2012)

I've had similar questions about short fiction publication.  If you send something to Clarkesworld or Podcastle or Escapepod, do they expect an already pristine manuscript?  If they think the story could be tweaked and improved, or if they catch a spelling mistake or an awkard sentence will they offer suggestions?


----------



## Steerpike (Nov 5, 2012)

Twook00 said:


> I've had similar questions about short fiction publication.  If you send something to Clarkesworld or Podcastle or Escapepod, do they expect an already pristine manuscript?  If they think the story could be tweaked and improved, or if they catch a spelling mistake or an awkard sentence will they offer suggestions?



If you send an unpolished manuscript, one that doesn't adhere to their guidelines or has spelling, typographical, or other such errors in it, you can expect a rejection. They want to see a professional product from you. If, on the other hand, the editors like it but feel that the story could be tweaked to be improved, maybe they'll accept it conditionally. I don't know. I've actually had Clarkesworld tell me they liked a story a lot except they thought the ending should be changed. That came with a rejection and a request to send it back in if/when I fixed it (I sold it elsewhere and have never resubmitted it). 

You want to make the editors job as easy as possible. Anything that you do to cast yourself in an unprofessional light will hurt you, and if the editors think the story will take a fair amount of tweaking to make it acceptable, that will hurt you as well. Depending on the market, you will very often not be told why it is they didn't take the piece.


----------



## Androxine Vortex (Nov 5, 2012)

Steerpike said:


> If you send an unpolished manuscript, one that doesn't adhere to their guidelines or has spelling, typographical, or other such errors in it, you can expect a rejection. They want to see a professional product from you. If, on the other hand, the editors like it but feel that the story could be tweaked to be improved, maybe they'll accept it conditionally. I don't know. I've actually had Clarkesworld tell me they liked a story a lot except they thought the ending should be changed. That came with a rejection and a request to send it back in if/when I fixed it (I sold it elsewhere and have never resubmitted it).
> 
> You want to make the editors job as easy as possible. Anything that you do to cast yourself in an unprofessional light will hurt you, and if the editors think the story will take a fair amount of tweaking to make it acceptable, that will hurt you as well. Depending on the market, you will very often not be told why it is they didn't take the piece.



Aside from just trying to find errors by ourselves, is there anything that we can really do before we send in our manuscript? For instance, is it usual to send your project to an editor or someone to take a look at it beforehand? I just don't really have an idea on how these things work; I am very far from this point in my progress.


----------



## Steerpike (Nov 5, 2012)

Androxine Vortex said:


> Aside from just trying to find errors by ourselves, is there anything that we can really do before we send in our manuscript? For instance, is it usual to send your project to an editor or someone to take a look at it beforehand? I just don't really have an idea on how these things work; I am very far from this point in my progress.



You can hire a freelance editor if you're really concerned about it and don't mind paying for it. They'll do anything from just checking for spelling and grammar to giving advice on the actual presentation of the story and characters, &c.


----------



## Androxine Vortex (Nov 5, 2012)

Steerpike said:


> You can hire a freelance editor if you're really concerned about it and don't mind paying for it. They'll do anything from just checking for spelling and grammar to giving advice on the actual presentation of the story and characters, &c.



I figured you could do something like that. I guess it wouldn't hurt to do that either. Any approximation on cost? Not sure how that works. I'm sure style (novel, short story, etc) and length factor in.


----------



## Weaver (Nov 6, 2012)

Androxine Vortex said:


> I figured you could do something like that. I guess it wouldn't hurt to do that either. Any approximation on cost? Not sure how that works. I'm sure style (novel, short story, etc) and length factor in.



The cost varies, although around $4-5 per page (a page being 250 words, standard) for copyediting seems typical.  Some freelance editors charge by the hour rather than by word count, but I wouldn't hire one of those.  (Why pay more if they work slowly?  For that matter, why should someone be paid LESS because they work fast?  Doesn't seem fair.)  Also, make sure you find someone who knows fantasy fiction.


----------



## BWFoster78 (Nov 6, 2012)

Androxine Vortex said:


> I know the purpose of an editor is to well, edit. But whenever I look at my work I can always go back and see something that needs to be fixed. Not really a typo but more grammar mistakes. My question is, would it be possible to be rejected due to too many mistakes? Now obviously I am not talking about every word misspelled and there aren't any periods anywhere. But would could that happen? I am always trying to improve my skills and write as best as I can.



Once I finish my 4th draft, I plan to send my novel to an editor for a manuscript review.

The least thing I'm worried about is comments on grammar and line editing.  I think it's essential you iron all those things out yourself.  A) it doesn't sound like you can afford to pay someone to do it for you and B) for your piece to be even considered for publication, it needs to be presentable.  To make it out of a slush pile is a longshot at best.  To do so with poor grammar seems unlikely in the extreme.

All I can say is to get your grammar down.  Study it.  

Find other writers near your skill level.  Offer to beta read their stuff in exchange for them beta reading yours.  That will help catch a lot of stuff.

When you do send it to an editor, ask for a review of the pacing and plot, not grammar.

Just my thoughts.


----------



## Kevin O. McLaughlin (Nov 8, 2012)

The best way, of course, is to learn grammar.  A writer not having good grammar skills is a little bit like a carpenter not knowing which end of the saw to hold. The carpenter might end up creating something roughly like what he intended to - but it probably isn't going to be very pretty compared to a carpenter who knows her tools. 

Editing can be very expensive. I've heard good things about Red Adept, which last I looked had a penny a word package which included a content/general edit and a proofread. That's a very good rate. You can also swap with another writer, assuming you both have good grammar skills in the first place and just want some cleanup. For short works, you can join Critters.org or the Online Writer's Workshop for Fantasy and Science Fiction, and when you put up work ask especially for grammar crits.


----------



## Chilari (Nov 8, 2012)

Learning solid grammar is good advice, but even the best of us make mistakes sometimes. Typos, changing the spelling of a character's name half way through the novel, and the inevitable word we're blind to or can never get right. So using editing services or asking to swap with another author is still needed even if your grammar is generally very strong.


----------



## Kevin O. McLaughlin (Nov 9, 2012)

Yup! Not saying you shouldn't hire a proofreader (or get one some other way, like swapping). But understanding principles of the language like grammar and punctuation will make your life easier, and your editing costs much less expensive.


----------



## Weaver (Nov 9, 2012)

Kevin O. McLaughlin said:


> Yup! Not saying you shouldn't hire a proofreader (or get one some other way, like swapping). But understanding principles of the language like grammar and punctuation will make your life easier, and your editing costs much less expensive.



I think that an editor would be entirely justified to charge "hazardous duty pay" if given a manuscript that was written in text abbreviations, for example, or completely lacked capitalization (including "I") or end punctuation.  If fact, I'm certain that some of them do.

A word of advice about getting proofreading through swapping:  _Make sure the other person actually has a clue_.  For a writer, there are few things worse at this stage of revision than getting "corrections" on a manuscript from someone who thinks that a semicolon can be used just like a colon or who insists that the question mark after a question in dialog goes after the _tag_, not the dialog itself (as in _"What do you mean by that," he asked?_  *shake shead*)


----------



## Caged Maiden (Nov 9, 2012)

Yeah, finding a good critique partner is very valuable.  As I read for someone, I get into the nuances of their style, and I can personalize the critique more for them.  I'm happy to do grammar and punctuation for one person weak in it, and ignore it for another who only wants flow/ concept reading.  It's that sort of thing you will benefit from most.  

However, a word of advice about editing.  I've spent the better part of two years editing, and only really got a clue in the last 6 months.  DO NOT worry about grammar until you have your manuscript finished.  It's a stalling technique that keeps you from finishing.  My point is, why polish a scene that you might cut out in second draft?  SO take things in stages, and let yourself have a little slack while you learn.  I'd strongly urge you to look for free help from another writer before paying a professional.  THe critique partner might draw your attention to scenes that don't work, flat descriptions, or bland characters, and then you won't have wasted money making all your mistakes grammatically perfect before rewrite them.


----------



## Caged Maiden (Nov 9, 2012)

Also, read my article on query letters.  It too, is full of helpful advice about first impressions   Best wishes!

Fantasy Writing - Mythic Scribes


----------



## BWFoster78 (Nov 10, 2012)

Caged Maiden said:


> However, a word of advice about editing.  I've spent the better part of two years editing, and only really got a clue in the last 6 months.  DO NOT worry about grammar until you have your manuscript finished.  It's a stalling technique that keeps you from finishing.  My point is, why polish a scene that you might cut out in second draft?  SO take things in stages, and let yourself have a little slack while you learn.  I'd strongly urge you to look for free help from another writer before paying a professional.  THe critique partner might draw your attention to scenes that don't work, flat descriptions, or bland characters, and then you won't have wasted money making all your mistakes grammatically perfect before rewrite them.



I hear this argument a lot and usually add this counterpoint:

It depends on what your purpose is.  If the important thing is to finish the WiP, don't get distracted.  If the point is to get better at writing, perhaps it's better to learn whatever there is that's available to learn.


----------

