• Welcome to the Fantasy Writing Forums. Register Now to join us!

Which Pitch?

Laurence

Inkling
For an agent/editor/publisher pitch scenario, eg. standing at a convention delivering one succinct sentence during conversation, which of the following routes sell you in best? Each example here is trying to do something different so I imagine none of them are bang on, but it'll be helpful to hear which you think is closest.

Option 1
It’s a relatively fast paced adult epic fantasy following a family seeking asylum in their mother’s homeland.

Option 2
In this adult epic fantasy, a family seeking refuge and mending travel to the source of an ancient life force, only to discover they are far from welcome to it.

Option 3
In a world scarred by revenge, an immortal mother and a fox lead her family of refugees to the ancestral home, only to discover it too is corrupted, and they are not welcome.

  1. Which option most entices you? Least, more or most detail?
  2. Would you go for a more relaxed or more blurb-ready type of pitch?
  3. do you focus more on the internal or external conflicts?
  4. Close character focus vs zooming out on issues happening all over your world?
  5. Should the genre and audience be stated outright or implied?
  6. How much info should be given away? Do you reveal things that you wouldn't reveal to potential readers?
  7. Is it alright that this is really a pitch for the entire trilogy and that the family don't reach said homeland until the second book?

It'd be cool to see how you guys deliver your own one line pitches too, whether for a rating, feedback, deciding between options or tweaking. These could be real pitches or for non existing projects.
 
Last edited:

Ban

Troglodytic Trouvère
Article Team
Option 1
It’s a relatively fast paced adult epic fantasy following a family seeking asylum in their mother’s homeland.

Skip the relatively. You're selling a pitch, don't deflate your idea before it even has a chance to hit. From the other pritches it also seems you are excluding key information (ancient life force) (immortality) (supernatural element). I'd say this one is the weakest, because it doesn't paint an accurate picture.

Option 2
In this adult epic fantasy, a family seeking refuge discover an ancient life force and travel to its source only to discover they are far from welcome to it.

This one is better, as it raises multiple questions (what's the ancient life force?) (why isn't the family welcome?)

Option 3
In a world scarred by revenge, an immortal mother and a fox lead her family of refugees to the ancestral home, only to discover it too is corrupted, and they are not welcome.

What is a world scarred by revenge? What does a corrupted ancestral home imply? The immortal mother and a fox leading a family of refugees is interesting however.
 
an immortal mother and a fox lead her family of refugees to the ancestral home, only to discover it too is corrupted, and they are not welcome.

You'll want to use words and phrases that turn the switches of imagination to the on position, and I think this does. I get a flash of images and possibilities from this.

For me, Option 1 and Option 2 are too abstract, leaving little to latch onto.

I'd suggest some mention of what they are fleeing.

Fleeing an invasion of sluglike body snatchers, an immortal mother and a fox.....

Heh.

At the end, "it too is corrupted" is abstract. The point of something like a pitch is not "avoid spoiling the plot/story" but actually to spoil in an incomplete way. ...only to discover her former clan has come under the influence of an evil necromancer, and they are not welcome.

Mind you, I've never actually delivered a pitch at a convention, so this is just my two cents.
 

Laurence

Inkling
Thanks guys. That clarifies where this differs from blurb material too then!

So for now I'm torn between:

Option 1
A family and an immortal fox skip murder charges and seek asylum in their ancestors' homeland, only to discover their mother is already unknowingly on the run.

Option 2
A family and their immortal pet fox skip murder charges and seek asylum in their ancestors' homeland, only to discover their mother is already unknowingly on the run from a vengeful emperor.

That's super handy either way as the more natural language means I can actually use it in conversation without it sounding like a performance.
 
Last edited:
only to discover their mother is already unknowingly on the run from a vengeful emperor.

"Unknowingly on the run" in an oxymoron, isn't it? You can't be on the run...unknowingly. :oops:

Maybe, only to discover their mother is wanted for execution by a vengeful emperor.

I wonder if something more evocative, question-prickling, for the first half would be good.

When their young son and brother is accused of murder, a family and their immortal fox seek asylum in their ancestral homeland, only to discover their mother is wanted for execution by a vengeful emperor.

"Their young son and brother" is a bit clunky here, but you get the idea?
 

Laurence

Inkling
"Unknowingly on the run" in an oxymoron, isn't it? You can't be on the run...unknowingly. :oops:

Maybe, only to discover their mother is wanted for execution by a vengeful emperor.

I wonder if something more evocative, question-prickling, for the first half would be good.

When their young son and brother is accused of murder, a family and their immortal fox seek asylum in their ancestral homeland, only to discover their mother is wanted for execution by a vengeful emperor.

"Their young son and brother" is a bit clunky here, but you get the idea?

Good point. The reason she's unknowingly "on the run" is that she escaped but lost her memory in the process. I can see how it sounds wrong without knowing that so thanks for the sweet alternative.

Love your second example too. How did you know it was the young son / brother accused...

I think I want to keep things focused around the mother as, while she's not a main POV, it's really her story in my mind.

When her son is accused of murder, an immortal mother and her fox lead the family to their ancestral homeland for asylum, only to discover she’s wanted by its vengeful emperor.
 
But seriously, making it the young brother raises the stakes, I think, so my mind went there.

I think your last pitch is pretty good. The point is to tweak the imagination and raise questions, so if you can do that, whoever you are pitching this to might ask further questions about the details.

In previous discussions about log lines, pitches, and premise statements, the issue of including how the story ends has arisen. I don't know that would be needed for a casual introductory pitch, but it might give a better sense of the overall theme and story.

To save her family, and with nowhere to go, she must rally her clan to overthrow the emperor.

With nowhere to go, she must discover the location of her cousin's rebel force if she's to have any chance of saving her family.

Dunno. These would be in addition to what you've written.
 

Ban

Troglodytic Trouvère
Article Team
When her son is accused of murder, an immortal mother and her fox lead the family to their ancestral homeland for asylum, only to discover she’s wanted by its vengeful emperor.


This works. It's interesting and paints an accurate picture (I assume).

So now I'm just going to nitpick to make it a bit stronger:
1. "The family"? What family? You haven't established yet that there is a family, so "her family" would be better.
2. "lead the family to their ancestral homeland for asylum" can be made stronger by writing it as "seek refuge for her family in her ancestral homeland". Opinions may vary here.
3. You use "their ancestral homeland" followed by "she's wanted". The subject changes and "she" could refer to both the mother and the fox. I'd stick to keeping the mother as the object.
 

Laurence

Inkling
This works. It's interesting and paints an accurate picture (I assume).

So now I'm just going to nitpick to make it a bit stronger:
1. "The family"? What family? You haven't established yet that there is a family, so "her family" would be better.
2. "lead the family to their ancestral homeland for asylum" can be made stronger by writing it as "seek refuge for her family in her ancestral homeland". Opinions may vary here.
3. You use "their ancestral homeland" followed by "she's wanted". The subject changes and "she" could refer to both the mother and the fox. I'd stick to keeping the mother as the object.

Always appreciated! Yes, this is accurate.

1. I did want to write her but it felt wrong have having her son, her fox and her family.
2. You solved the problem above!
3. It is actually all of theirs' (including the fox's) ancestral homeland, except the father's, but I see your point. I've tiddled with the subject below.

When her son is accused of murder, an immortal mother seeks refuge for her fox and family in her ancestral homeland, only to discover she’s wanted by its vengeful emperor.

But seriously, making it the young brother raises the stakes, I think, so my mind went there.

I think your last pitch is pretty good. The point is to tweak the imagination and raise questions, so if you can do that, whoever you are pitching this to might ask further questions about the details.

In previous discussions about log lines, pitches, and premise statements, the issue of including how the story ends has arisen. I don't know that would be needed for a casual introductory pitch, but it might give a better sense of the overall theme and story.

To save her family, and with nowhere to go, she must rally her clan to overthrow the emperor.

With nowhere to go, she must discover the location of her cousin's rebel force if she's to have any chance of saving her family.

Dunno. These would be in addition to what you've written.

Here's my first crack at an ending in a paragraph long pitch...

When her son is accused of murder, an immortal mother seeks refuge for her fox and family in their ancestral homeland, only to discover she’s wanted by a murderous emperor. To stop the executions and preserve her peoples' place in the afterlife, she must rally an alliance to overthrow his government built on revenge and greed. Ancient heirloom pets have hidden in plain sight for tens of generations, but so have tyrants.

That last sentence too much? eheh.
 

Svrtnsse

Staff
Article Team
I'l take a stab at the longer paragraph.
There are two minor things in the first sentence:
n immortal mother seeks refuge for her fox and family
This could just be me, but it bolded words read awkward, like the fox is her family.
she’s wanted by a murderous emperor.
This also feels a bit awkward. Maybe change a to it, and/or change murderous to blood thirsty?

Ancient heirloom pets have hidden in plain sight for tens of generations, but so have tyrants.
I've got one minor and one major issue with this.
The minor issue is that tens of generations doesn't feel like all that much. It IS a long span of time, but tens doesn't carry much weight with it. Just going with for generations would probably be stronger.
The major issue is that the sentence feels a little bit disconnected from the earlier ones. Sure, there's the mention of the fox, but other than that there's not much to connect them to the rest of the content. Perhaps mentioning the tyrants first and the heirloom pets after will fix this, implying that the pets are a way to fight tyranny.
 

Laurence

Inkling
I'l take a stab at the longer paragraph.
There are two minor things in the first sentence:

This could just be me, but it bolded words read awkward, like the fox is her family.

This also feels a bit awkward. Maybe change a to it, and/or change murderous to blood thirsty?


I've got one minor and one major issue with this.
The minor issue is that tens of generations doesn't feel like all that much. It IS a long span of time, but tens doesn't carry much weight with it. Just going with for generations would probably be stronger.
The major issue is that the sentence feels a little bit disconnected from the earlier ones. Sure, there's the mention of the fox, but other than that there's not much to connect them to the rest of the content. Perhaps mentioning the tyrants first and the heirloom pets after will fix this, implying that the pets are a way to fight tyranny.

Ah but the fox is her family! Possibly moreso than her living human family. So is that good?

On the emperor descriptor...it’s not that he’s bloodthirsty so much as greedy, jealous and vengeful. He wants to take he country to the next technological age and slowly brings execution to a country where murder isn’t really a thing, in a bit to get his citizens to obey. He’s also bitter about something another country did to his home land a thousand years ago and that’s where he becomes vengeful in the main climax. I’m not sure how all that fits into a one word descriptor.

Totally agree with swapping the positions of the last two clauses as the heirloom pets do wind up being a part of the solution to the tyrants. Really gets across how devastating a potential force they are. I can smell a battle brewing there hnnnggh.

When her son is accused of murder, an immortal mother seeks refuge for her fox and family in their ancestral homeland, only to discover she’s wanted by a blood thirsty emperor. To stop the executions and preserve her peoples' place in the afterlife, she must rally an alliance to overthrow his government built on revenge and greed. Ancient tyrants have hidden in plain sight for generations, but so have heirloom pets.
 

Svrtnsse

Staff
Article Team
Ah but the fox is her family! Possibly moreso than her living human family. So is that good?
I'm not sure actually. I had a hunch it wasn't implausible that it could be, but at the same time I wasn't sure. It lead to a sense of uncertainty which I wasn't a fan of. You may want others to weigh in on that though.
On the emperor descriptor...it’s not that he’s bloodthirsty so much as greedy, jealous and vengeful. He wants to take he country to the next technological age and slowly brings execution to a country where murder isn’t really a thing, in a bit to get his citizens to obey. He’s also bitter about something another country did to his home land a thousand years ago and that’s where he becomes vengeful in the main climax. I’m not sure how all that fits into a one word descriptor.
I sense you may be having the same kind of issue here as I do when writing blurbs: trying to fit in too much of an accurate reflection of the story. I don't think that's bad in itself, but I'm thinking it's easy to get stuck and bogged down by it. Maybe ruthless would be a better word?
Heirloom pets sounds a little cutesy at the end of the sentence.
Yes. Now that you mention it. It does. I think it's the word pet in general that does it. It's got this cute vibe to it.

Ah but the fox is her family! Possibly moreso than her living human family.
This is pretty cool though.
 

Laurence

Inkling
I think you’re right about trying to get it too accurate. Hmm I’d go for familiar but “heirloom familiar” sounds like it could be anything.
 
For an agent/editor/publisher pitch scenario, eg. standing at a convention delivering one succinct sentence during conversation, which of the following routes sell you in best? Each example here is trying to do something different so I imagine none of them are bang on, but it'll be helpful to hear which you think is closest.

Option 1
It’s a relatively fast paced adult epic fantasy following a family seeking asylum in their mother’s homeland.

Option 2
In this adult epic fantasy, a family seeking refuge and mending travel to the source of an ancient life force, only to discover they are far from welcome to it.

Option 3
In a world scarred by revenge, an immortal mother and a fox lead her family of refugees to the ancestral home, only to discover it too is corrupted, and they are not welcome.

  1. Which option most entices you? Least, more or most detail?
  2. Would you go for a more relaxed or more blurb-ready type of pitch?
  3. do you focus more on the internal or external conflicts?
  4. Close character focus vs zooming out on issues happening all over your world?
  5. Should the genre and audience be stated outright or implied?
  6. How much info should be given away? Do you reveal things that you wouldn't reveal to potential readers?
  7. Is it alright that this is really a pitch for the entire trilogy and that the family don't reach said homeland until the second book?

It'd be cool to see how you guys deliver your own one line pitches too, whether for a rating, feedback, deciding between options or tweaking. These could be real pitches or for non existing projects.

Option 3 definitely the best, you want to set it apart and garner interest, no?
 
When her son is accused of murder, an immortal mother seeks refuge for her fox and family in their ancestral homeland, only to discover she’s wanted by a blood thirsty emperor. To stop the executions and preserve her peoples' place in the afterlife, she must rally an alliance to overthrow his government built on revenge and greed. Ancient tyrants have hidden in plain sight for generations, but so have heirloom pets.

I don't get the sense of why the fox is being particularly protected, nor even the whole family, so much as that one son. So "refuge for her fox and family" seems off. I can understand that protecting that one son will mean moving the whole family, however.

I did like the sense of an immortal mother and her fox lead , because it evoked this image of that immortal mother and her fox leading them to safety. So I don't think "seek refuge" is working here as worded.

When her son is accused of murder, an immortal mother and her fox lead her family to her ancestral homeland, only to discover she’s wanted by a blood thirsty emperor.

--but, I do see the problem with having so many "her's" there, hah. So this is a conundrum. Maybe you could use "their ancestral homeland," because, after all, this is the homeland for all, mother, family and, presumably, fox.

You do seem to have a gap between this and what follows.

Also, the final sentence sounds like it's being a little too weighted with unspoken meaning. Like it's meant to be mysterious but extremely significant for the whole story. Ancient tyrants have hidden in plain sight for generations, but so have heirloom pets. I'm mostly confused about how ancient tyrants have been hidden in plain sight—are these different than the bloodthirsty emperor already mentioned? I think this might be a case of withholding too much, whereas you want to "spoil" for a prospective editor and/or publisher so they can get a good idea of what your story is.

When her son is accused of murder, an immortal mother and her fox lead her family to their ancestral homeland, only to discover she’s wanted by a blood thirsty emperor. Fortunately, she also carries with her the ancient knowledge of heirloom pets. She must rally her people to overthrow the despot—but first she must force them to remember their past.

--would something like this work? I toyed with "But first she must make them believe!" and a few other things. I wonder if that fits your story; I'm guessing from what you have written here.
 
BTW, I seem to remember a discussion on this topic on Writing Excuses, and Brandon Sanderson made a comment to the effect that the pitch doesn't have to match 100% what you actually write. He had some story about pitching an idea to an editor, and once the editor bought the hook, Sanderson wrote the story and it veered somewhat from what was originally pitched. Not completely, but in some details.

So...there's that, heh. ;)
 

Laurence

Inkling
It is their whole family under threat by association but you’ve done a sweet job of cutting down the words.

Bang on with remembering their past kekeke

The long Pitch feels pretty close, though I omitted the ancient knowledge. They’re real, often large, present creatures that fight, heal and carry. It’s just that they live with a bunch of magical people who’re in hiding until the third book. Am I telling enough about this in the pitch? How about now?

Long Pitch
When her son is accused of murder, an immortal mother and an enormous fox imbued with her ancestors’ life force lead the family to her native homeland, only to discover she’s wanted by its bloodthirsty emperor. To protect her family, she must rally her people and their own heirloom pets to overthrow the regime—but first she must force them to remember their past.
 

Similar threads

Top