Need Some Help with Fortress Placement

[Mindfire]

This is a mock-up of Vira, one of the settings for my WIP. The actual map is incomplete so I added the captions and a few minor changes in MS Paint, but it's a fairly accurate representation of how the final version will look.


Click to enlarge

The Baynish invaders settlers are sandwiched between two hostile native factions: the Inazuma of the Veiled Mountains and the Kudan of the Steppes. Naturally, the Baynish built fortresses to maintain control of their lands. Each fortress is under the control of a warlord. I haven't decided how many warlords there are, but I'd say no more than five. Some warlords might have multiple fortresses though. I'd like some suggestions about where to put them. I've marked Inazuma and Kudan territory on the map. Also note that the Dale is neutral ground and is not occupied by anyone for reasons of the plot and backstory, so no fortresses will be placed there. Anywhere else between the purple and the orange is fair game though. And in case you were wondering, the triangles represent religious sites.


Suggestions?

 

[topazfire]

It is always helpful to look at real world examples for castle and fortress locations. There has to be a reason, defensive, strategic, etc for why a particular fortress was built in that exact spot.

The Sweetwater River wil surely have places that would be ideal to locate a fortress - somewhere they can control the travel along the river perhaps?

The continent/island seems quite narrow, so is it possible that the warlords would be spread across both coasts? There are many real world examples of coastal fortresses protecting harbours that you can look at. Could there be a defensive system or structure across the entire continent? Like Hadrians Wall in England or The Wall in GoT (wonder where GRRM got that idea....)

I think I would need more detail about the land features and natural harbour locations between the two hostile groups before I could decide where to put the fortresses.

Also, where did they settle first? That would be a historically natural spot to fortify, and then build out from there. I would love to see what you end up with and your reasoning.

 

[Abbas-Al-Morim]

It's hard to tell what positions are strategically viable but I'd put one on the sweetwater river close to the purple mountains. That way, those Inazuma can't invade without taking that castle. Unless of course they are incredibly numerous and have absolutely no need for logistic supply lines and don't value an individual life. In that case, there's no point in building castles at all. A castle there would also help you control the river-trade. I'd probably put another around the river to control the midland.

I'd put a coastal fortification in one of those bends near the moon lagoon too. That way you can spot pirates coming from the steppes (if the Kudan have vessels/ports) and at the very least you'll have a good fortification to stop their attack. If the Kudan do not have ships, then it's the ideal location for a coastal fortress. In the event the fort is taken, the men can flee by ship without the Kudan being able to intercept them.

 

[Scribe Lord]

From the map given I can think of four strategically placed fortresses.

1. As said before the Sweetwater River is an obvious choice. I would think of placing a fort where the river is joined up by the two other small rivers. Building it between two of them on a hill of some sort would make an easily defended fort. It would control all trade on the river as well as keep the Inazuma out.

2. Assuming the Kudan are not the best seafarers the peninsula to the west would also make an ideal choice. Protected on all sides by water but one. And defending the land part would not prove that difficult. In fact even if the Kudan did posses ships I think it would still be a well fortified place. It could also be used for sea trade. Another use, is that if Kudan and the Baynish are ever at war this place would make an excellent port from which to send ships on raids.

3.Another good location is on the north-west side of the Sweetwater. Any forts placed here could well defend against the Kudan trying to enter by crossing the river. These would control the north part of the river trade.

4. As said before the lagoon is another good choice. Preferably on one of the peninsulas this fort would act much the same as number 2.

All this would leave the area directly south of the steppes not protected by the river. Forts of some sort would have to be placed here, perhaps a wall or something as suggested before.

 

[ThinkerX]

Ok...from which direction did these 'Baynish' invaders arrive? And are they a loyalist colony or outcast group?

Reason is, either way, they'd want to control the ports in their new homeland: either to keep their lines of supply open, or if they are outcasts of the home country, to keep the motherland out. With no scale its real hard to tell, but it looks like the only good harbors in the Baynish area is where the Sweetwater hits the sea and the Mozi(?) lagoon on the far side from there. Those areas get fortresses. Apart from those two spots, up and down the Sweetwater as noted previously.

Side note: from the names, it looks like this map depicts an 'antarctic region'.

 

[Mindfire]

Thanks everyone for the great suggestions so far! However, the Moai Lagoon, as indicated by the triangle, is a location of religious significance to the Kudan and they would fight to the last man before they allowed the Baynish to build anything there. So I don't see that going well. The other location suggestions are superb however. As for the idea of building a wall, I'm not sure how that would go down. The Kudan wouldn't bother stopping the Baynish from building fortresses. Because of their cultural background, they wouldn't understand the full implications of the structure. They'd just see a big stone tent. But they would immediately grasp the implications of a wall, which would be twofold:
1. The way the Kudan see it, they're being gracious by letting the Baynish stay on their land and they have the right to go as they choose. A fortified wall would be an insult.
2. Because of how Kudan culture works, building a wall would be seen as a sign of great weakness ("they fear us so much they have to build a wall to cower behind!") and thus a huge invitation for attack.
The end result: constant Kudan raids that make building a wall potentially more trouble than it's worth.

And @ThinkerX, they are exiles but they have no contact with the motherland. They've been separated from it for a few hundred years at this point and they're not sure it even exists anymore. And yes, the far southern end is an Antarctic region, or close to one anyway. It's kind of like the tip of South America, except the elevation is higher. The Winterlands are essentially a tundra plateau. Of course, geography doesn't work 100% the same here as it does on earth, so I've used some artistic license. As for a scale, I'm still working that out. As for what direction the Baynish arrived from, they sailed in from the west side, but they shipwrecked during a storm. So I'm not sure if they landed on the west side or the east side due to storm shenanigans pushing them around the south end of the continent.

 

[ThinkerX]

Ok...if the Baynish can't put a fortress square on the Moai Lagoon, they'd still try to set one as close to it as they could manage - maybe on the pretext of watching out for pirates or some such. This might be grounds for background friction: the Kundan complain now and again about the insulting presence of the fortress, while the Baynish respond with a long string of treaties, bribes, and threats. Some Baynish overlord or other threatens an underling, saying 'You'll be appointed envoy to the Kundan on the lagoon-fort issue if you muck things up one more time.' Or maybe make said flunky commander of the lagoon-fort. Kundan fanatics, for their part, sneak in now and again and murder a Baynish patrol on the sly, or burn the fields or some such. A long simmering problem which brings only grief and never really goes away.

 

[Mindfire]

Okay, so here's the same image as before, except this time i was too lazy to slap labels on it. Kudan territory is in orange and Inazuma territory is in purple as before. However, I've added markers. The red markers with the squares inside them are places where I've already put down a fortress marker, but the locations are still not final. The green markers are places where I'm thinking about putting a fortress marker if I want more fortresses. The blue markers are places where the Baynish settlers could have originally shipwrecked.

Keep in mind, these warlords are not only having to defend their lands from the Kudan, but also occasionally from each other, which is why the forts aren't that close together for the most part. Originally I was only going to have five forts, with one per warlord, but that number may change.

Feedback on these potential fort locations?

 

[ThinkerX]

Ok...Red dots are mostly in about the right locations. I do wonder a bit about the easternmost one on the Kundan border.

The green dots...

I like the two on either side of the river.

The northernmost one on the eastern coast should be shifted a bit further north, if possible, to let the Baynish keep an eye on Kundan activity around the lagoon.

The southernmost one should be placed right at the juncture of the three rivers instead of off to the side, that way the commander can sent patrols quickly up any of the tributaries. A control thing.

I don't see the point of the fort in the middle of the plain, unless there is an unmarked river or a city of note there. Same for the southern green dot on the eastern coast (then again, might be some sort of mine there, or a punishment garrision - 'one more screwup and I'll send you to the...'