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Quick check: what is considered 'Language'

Guru Coyote

Archmage
Ok, so I'm writing a story where two people who are close are having an argument. It's is heated and both are quite the characters, not likely to hold back.

the thing is... from the rest of the story, this can well be YA, the argument is a parent/teenager type thing.

While the charactes are unlikely to hold back on hurtful remarks and will definitely vent their emotions... I see no reason for me as author to limit the reach of this story due to 'language.' That's just NOT what the story is about.

So what would put such an argument 'over the top' as to require a content label? What words are ok, and which should I rather avoid using?

Thanks :)
 

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
Ok, so I'm writing a story where two people who are close are having an argument. It's is heated and both are quite the characters, not likely to hold back.

the thing is... from the rest of the story, this can well be YA, the argument is a parent/teenager type thing.

While the charactes are unlikely to hold back on hurtful remarks and will definitely vent their emotions... I see no reason for me as author to limit the reach of this story due to 'language.' That's just NOT what the story is about.

So what would put such an argument 'over the top' as to require a content label? What words are ok, and which should I rather avoid using?

Thanks :)

Reading YA/Teen I can tell you there aren't really language and subject matter barriers any more. Just be true to the characters and don't worry about it too much.
 
Reading YA/Teen I can tell you there aren't really language and subject matter barriers any more. Just be true to the characters and don't worry about it too much.

It's not that simple. A friend of mine just published a YA and was told "you can have sex, violence, or language, but only so many out of the three"-- I wish I remembered the exact rules. (And I'm pretty sure the second wasn't just "violence"; we all know murder and torture are more acceptable than skin. --Not a joke, at least here in the US.)
 

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
It's not that simple. A friend of mine just published a YA and was told "you can have sex, violence, or language, but only so many out of the three"-- I wish I remembered the exact rules. (And I'm pretty sure the second wasn't just "violence"; we all know murder and torture are more acceptable than skin. --Not a joke, at least here in the US.)

All you have to do is read YA/Teen to know this isn't true. Maybe for your friends publisher, but I wouldn't extrapolate to a standard rule from it.
 

Guru Coyote

Archmage
Seems like the answer is 'depends' just like I feared. So I guess it might be ok to stick to "shit" and "crap" and the occasional "bloody," but avoid the f-word.
 

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
I recently read one with a few f-bombs sprinkled throughout. Don't approach it with the idea you have to coddle the teens. It is less likely to be effective that way.
 

A. E. Lowan

Forum Mom
Leadership
Honestly, I agree with Steerpike. It seems that you can get away with quite a lot in today's YA. I'm by no means an ardent YA fan, and I certainly don't write it, but I'm reading one right now (it happens to be by one of my favorite authors) where a high school principle just appeared with the name "Richard Head." Yes, I cannot make this stuff up. Kids are far from stupid (just impressionable as all get out), and the ones I know are very worldly. So, I would say, as long as you avoid anything TRULY offensive, let your characters rip. If your natural writing style is trending towards YA anyway, you probably won't stray too far into offense-infested waters.
 

Guru Coyote

Archmage
Turns out - as I get to know them better - the two characters in question are both pretty decent. Which makes the harsh words they DO use work even more, by contrast.
 

Tevaras

Minstrel
It's not that simple. A friend of mine just published a YA and was told "you can have sex, violence, or language, but only so many out of the three"-- I wish I remembered the exact rules. (And I'm pretty sure the second wasn't just "violence"; we all know murder and torture are more acceptable than skin. --Not a joke, at least here in the US.)

Good evening wordwalker,

I agree on the U.S. censors having less problems with violence than 'skin'. I occasionally wonder what that is teaching the next generation, and how much of an effect that policy has already had on the behaviour we see from some youth of today :confused:.

No doubt there will be a study on this in twenty years - possibly saying 'oops'. ;)

Have a good evening.
 

SineNomine

Minstrel
No agent/editor is going to have a story ruined because of the language used. None will turn down a book because of it, and I guarantee you that if an editor wants you to change it you WILL hear about it.

No real use worrying about it. Write true to the characters and if it really is unacceptable, you will be asked to change it and you can decide then if you want to or not.
 

JSDR

Scribe
Are you writing the story for a publisher?
Or are you writing the story for the story's sake?

Heh, the point is you can't please everyone. There's no spreadsheet where people keep tallies of how many you use the f-word, c-word, etc. (unless it happens to be your senior thesis for college.)

Write the scenes and run them by your Betas. In the grand scheme of what to worry about, I'd say this is below the idea the using such "language" or slang might date your story.
 

A. E. Lowan

Forum Mom
Leadership
I agree on the U.S. censors having less problems with violence than 'skin'. I occasionally wonder what that is teaching the next generation, and how much of an effect that policy has already had on the behaviour we see from some youth of today :confused:.

No doubt there will be a study on this in twenty years - possibly saying 'oops'. ;)

This is one of my favorite rants, and I agree completely. There is something deeply, deeply wrong with a culture where it's considered PG13 to blow some guy's brains all over a dash board, but showing too much skin gets slapped with an R rating every time. Seriously? BUT, this is off topic, so I shall now end rant.
 
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