• Welcome to the Fantasy Writing Forums. Register Now to join us!

Fantasy without the fantasy?

Alex97

Troubadour
Let's say you pick up a book off of the fantasy shelf. It's set in a different world with it's own unique civilizations, cultures, customs... However, aside from that it lacks many of the fantasy elements that you commonly see like dragons or elves - it just has humans in an alternate world. My question is, would you read it?

I'm quite aware that there's a specific sub genre for this (possibly a form of low fantasy) although these seem a little ambiguous. It seems fantasy like this has become a little more popular but there's usually some magic or something similar somewhere.

I'm asking this mainly because my current WIP lacks any mystical beasts, magic, actively participating gods or mystical wombats... I feel that the plot works fine without them, although it lacks the scale that these things can bring and I'm wondering whether it has a place in fantasy at all. The story focuses on a war between a broken alliance of crumbling city states and the ever increasing threats from foreign empires. Yet it lacks any greater threat like the Others from ASoIaF for example.

In world building I have a few beasts and some magic inspired by Greek, Norse and Celtic mythology. In my original plot there were also very important artifacts that said city states were fighting a covert war over, but I scrapped that. Despite all this, none of them fit within the current plot.

Opinions?
 

Ireth

Myth Weaver
I'd say a story that takes place on another world, even without dragons or gryphons or what have you, still counts as fantasy (possibly overlapping with sci-fi depending on the tech level). Even a straight alternate history could count, IMO. Fantasy is a pretty broad term for things that aren't factually true.
 

Alex97

Troubadour
Time period resembles ancient antiquity so definitely fantasy as opposed to sci fi. Would you find the lack of above elements off putting since it's fantasy.

I'm not worried about the plot itself, but I have to admit it feels like something is missing.
 

Svrtnsse

Staff
Article Team
I'd say that as long as the world is different enough from the real world that it's not just earth with different geography it's probably fine to refer to it as fantasy.
 

Devor

Fiery Keeper of the Hat
Moderator
Depending on how extreme the lack of fantasy really is, I would wonder why bother with another world and not write historical fiction instead?
 

Alex97

Troubadour
Depending on how extreme the lack of fantasy really is, I would wonder why bother with another world and not write historical fiction instead?

That's what I was thinking. However, that would constrict me to a certain plot which I don't really want. Plus I'd rather spend time world building which has a creative element as opposed to pure research.

I'm thinking of writing historical fiction based on the Saxons but that's a different matter entirely.
 

Jamber

Sage
I think the unique cultures and customs mark it out as fantasy. However the trick would be to differentiate them really strongly. Fantasy of manners sometimes doesn't bother with magical stuff, but definitely isn't historical -- I'm sure there are other examples.
cheers
Jennie
 

Scribble

Archmage
If it isn't set in the world in which we live, I'd call it speculative fiction. If it centres around how a technology impacts life, then it's SF, otherwise, I'd call it fantasy. It's broad enough that some historical fiction might seem to fit, but only if there is a heroic element that is not strictly biographical.
 

Ophiucha

Auror
There are a few low fantasy stories that have no magic. Titus Groan didn't have any that I can remember, though I think elements of it snuck in towards the later books (but nobody really reads those). There tends to be a fantastical... tone, I guess you'd say? A way of writing the stories and the characters that conveys a sense of fantasy that isn't there. But, I mean, another world - particularly if the other world wasn't just a tediously reworked medieval France - would do the trick, and there have been stories of that sort. You also have the entire utopian fiction genre, which is often times free of any fantasy or science fiction elements, but generally takes place in a setting either off of Earth or in a place undiscovered. Islandia, for instance, is a novel that details the culture and customs of a fictional island nation somewhere out in the Pacific. The worldbuilding is extensive, I would argue more detailed than even Tolkien's, but it is firmly within the bounds of Earth science and law - and not advanced enough to be considered science fiction, either.

So don't worry about it; publishers will find a place for it as long as you write it well.
 
As I (and others) have said elsewhere, sci-fi is preternatural, fantasy is supernatural. The setting doesn't matter.

If stuff is happening (and affecting the plot) which is supernaturally driven, it's fantasy irrespective of the setting. If it's driven by something technological and potentially understandable...it's sci-fi.

Mind you, I have no problem with them both being present, as long as the concepts are well and consistently handled.
 

Motley

Minstrel
There are plenty of fantasy books with no magic exactly. Alternative universe? I think that's what it might be called. Or even alternate Earth.

Fantasy requires something that isn't found in our reality to happen. It doesn't have to be dragons and fireball-shooting wizards.
 

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
There are plenty of fantasy books with no magic exactly. Alternative universe? I think that's what it might be called. Or even alternate Earth.

Fantasy requires something that isn't found in our reality to happen. It doesn't have to be dragons and fireball-shooting wizards.

I agree. The idea that the author should just do historical fiction makes no sense to me. An author may create an entire world, the various countries and their relationships, key events in the history of that world, important figures, economies, and so on...but if they don't include magic or some generally recognizable mainstay of most fantasy, they should give all that up and write historical fiction, their story constrained by actual history? It doesn't follow.
 

Scribble

Archmage
I agree. The idea that the author should just do historical fiction makes no sense to me. An author may create an entire world, the various countries and their relationships, key events in the history of that world, important figures, economies, and so on...but if they don't include magic or some generally recognizable mainstay of most fantasy, they should give all that up and write historical fiction, their story constrained by actual history? It doesn't follow.

Well said. People (publishing people) do like things in particular boxes. It makes sense, but it has no place in the creative process. Some of the best ideas are simply, "What if..." or "I wonder what really happened... "Alternate history" can be used to capture many of these. Heck, most of the history we read in school is "alternate history" as written by the victors. Sorting out the fiction from fact is tricky when all the witnesses are dead.
 

Addison

Auror
I'm prone to read fantasy, especially if there's a dragon in it. But what catches my attention most to read the story isn't the elves or the cobbling gnomes or that stuff. It's the premise of the story and the promise of a great story on the back flap.
 
If the story line is great (for me promises war, bloodshed, intrigue, war and at least one prominent wise cracking character) and the world building is excellent- ( nearly the most important thing for me!!) then I will give it a go. Write what you want to, not what you fell will sell, because you will get a better, stronger story.
Also, If it stands out a bit, all the better. I was trying to write a no magic, super low fantasy book like yours, but sort of failed...... :( (there is a bit of magic and the gods are super involved and the main part of the plot:) )
Just one thing, You will regret not putting the magical wombats in................ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
I'll read any story that is well-written and engaging. That is a helpful attitude to have, since I don't read the back flaps of books :D
 

Devor

Fiery Keeper of the Hat
Moderator
What I mean is, if you're not going to include fantasy elements, you need to do something else to make it worth being set in another world.
 

skip.knox

toujours gai, archie
Moderator
>Just one thing, You will regret not putting the magical wombats in................ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But make them well-written and engaging wombats. :)

-= Skip =-
 

Alex97

Troubadour
Thanks to everyone for the feedback. I think I'm going to write the story as it is without the obvious fantasy elements and then try and work them in. I have a few ideas about a covert war going on simultaneously with the more obvious warfare over some artifact or power. Not quite sure what they will do yet but I think the idea could be developed and would certainly raise the stakes in the story.

Just one thing, You will regret not putting the magical wombats in................ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think they probably deserve a book of their own. Would anyone be interested in reading some comic fantasy about magical wombats, flying platypuses and mystical rainbow sloths? :p
 
Top