This is for research only, tee hee hee.

[SeverinR]

I believe a hollow reed was used to deliver medicines, not sure how far back that went though.

 

[Aidan of the tavern]

True, and I did think of that. But the odds of an accidental kill—at least short-term: I doubt the assassin or his employers are worried about long-term prognosis—are far lower, and the victim doesn't need to be rendered unconscious for long. Or at all: just needs to be dazed long enough to get him restrained properly. I'd also add that a "master" assassin would never allow the encounter to become a "scuffle" in the first place, so he'd have the choice of where to precisely place his blow, no matter what he was using, and how hard, which would essentially reduce the chances of an accidental kill to nil, unless he somehow contrived to trip at the very instant of delivering the blow—which will remain a danger regardless of what he uses.

(This, of course, assumes that a "master assassin" is a plausible construct in the first place: you'll discover that, historically, most assassins had kill totals of around… well, one. But that's a different discussion.)

The reason it becomes a scuffle in the first place is because the vulnerable protag (who for a change cannot wield a sword after 3 weeks training) gets attacked and injured by predators and the assassins are forced to intervene to protect him because they need him alive. While they are doing this the master takes the oppertunity to subdue the protag (with their anonimity gone they aren't just going to save him then wave good bye and disappear again)

 

[Benjamin Clayborne]

1.hit em in the head; just as likely to kill the person as knock them out. (see blunt force trauma)

In real life, yes. In fiction, it's a standard trope that a blow to the head can knock someone unconscious for a while, without permanent damage, and I don't think most people would have a problem with it any more than they do in any other fiction we've ever seen. (Especially in fantasy fiction, where there's always the possibility of magical healing.)

 

[Aidan of the tavern]

Again, in a big knife fight, I think the shoulder would be the best place to stab someone without killing them.

If you want a more intense action scene, a common method of subduing someone would be to grapple the person in what's called a "come along" position, holding their hand behind their back with one hand on their shoulder. You can google it. From that position, it would be easy to then stab a poisoned needle into the back of the hand (not a syringe which didn't exist until recently). I think that would show your assassin's skill level and abilities the most.

Devor, you may just have saved me from from my own conundrum! I'll google the come along position in a second, but I think I like it. If the protag doesn't know what hit him, and the readers are worried that he is dead, then thats a bonus.

 

[Ravana]

The reason it becomes a scuffle in the first place is because the vulnerable protag (who for a change cannot wield a sword after 3 weeks training) gets attacked and injured by predators and the assassins are forced to intervene to protect him because they need him alive. While they are doing this the master takes the oppertunity to subdue the protag (with their anonimity gone they aren't just going to save him then wave good bye and disappear again)

Predators? Animal or human? –Not that it matters. The assassins (plural?) save the MC, then walk up all concerned, say "Hey, buddy, are you all right? Why don't you come along with us and we'll get you fixed up." Worst case, this puts them right next to the MC, in contact with him; even if he refuses, they're positioned to bundle him up without significant further struggle. If you still want to use the knockout drug, have the person talking to him palm a needle, pat him on the shoulder… game over. The target may not even realize he's been stabbed, if he's hurting in enough other places (doubly so if the drug combines a local anesthetic effect); the "concerned" helpers can then remain with him long enough for it to take effect.

If I were doing it that way, I wouldn't even reveal the target had been tagged until after he keels over. The assassin grins, puts the palmed needle back away.…

 

[Aidan of the tavern]

Predators? Animal or human? —Not that it matters. The assassins (plural?) save the MC, then walk up all concerned, say "Hey, buddy, are you all right? Why don't you come along with us and we'll get you fixed up." Worst case, this puts them right next to the MC, in contact with him; even if he refuses, they're positioned to bundle him up without significant further struggle. If you still want to use the knockout drug, have the person talking to him palm a needle, pat him on the shoulder… game over. The target may not even realize he's been stabbed, if he's hurting in enough other places (doubly so if the drug combines a local anesthetic effect); the "concerned" helpers can then remain with him long enough for it to take effect.

If I were doing it that way, I wouldn't even reveal the target had been tagged until after he keels over. The assassin grins, puts the palmed needle back away.…

Hmm, I like the idea of him not knowing what happened until he keels over. Trouble is he already had a run in with the assassins earlier in the book.

 

[Ravana]

They're beginning to sound more like Keystone Kops than professionals.…

 

[Devor]

They're beginning to sound more like Keystone Kops than professionals.…

Honestly, I was thinking that, too, even though I suggested it. I was picturing a one-on-one fight, equal opponents, head on. Grab the arm, twist it and turn so that you're behind him, stab the hand. But in the scenario above, with multiple attackers and a wounded protag, I think they'd be more likely to just overpower him and use restraints like shackles and rope, and skip the poison entirely. Throwing a bag over his head and using asphyxiation would knock him out, too... or I think so, anyways.

 

[Aidan of the tavern]

Honestly, I was thinking that, too, even though I suggested it. I was picturing a one-on-one fight, equal opponents, head on. Grab the arm, twist it and turn so that you're behind him, stab the hand. But in the scenario above, with multiple attackers and a wounded protag, I think they'd be more likely to just overpower him and use restraints like shackles and rope, and skip the poison entirely. Throwing a bag over his head and using asphyxiation would knock him out, too... or I think so, anyways.

I think I will have it so it basically does become a 1 on 1 between master and protrag, while the other assassins are finishing off the predators. Probably a very short duel, due to protags bad sword work. He isn't badly injured and gets vicious when backed in a corner, so I'll go with your idea Devor, thanks.

 

[Graham Irwin]

I love how this is the only place this discussion could occur without eyebrows being raised :wink:

 

[SeverinR]

In real life, yes. In fiction, it's a standard trope that a blow to the head can knock someone unconscious for a while, without permanent damage, and I don't think most people would have a problem with it any more than they do in any other fiction we've ever seen. (Especially in fantasy fiction, where there's always the possibility of magical healing.)

yep, I am alot more accepting of it in scifi and fantasy then in real life drama.
I just wanted to give realism to the tropes. Realism can change a cliche into something new.

I will offer one possibility, since I can't try it, I don't know if it works.
a potato in a sock to the head, possibly hard enough to disrupt the brain, but soft enough to give some upon impact.
I would definately say it would stun, not sure about the knock out.

 

[SeverinR]

Devor, you may just have saved me from from my own conundrum! I'll google the come along position in a second, but I think I like it. If the protag doesn't know what hit him, and the readers are worried that he is dead, then thats a bonus.

The shock to the head my MC got, also knocked out the link to her dragonet so the dragonet went frantic back at the lair, contributing to the belief that the MC is dead. Moments later I did have an experienced mage offer the possiblity it was one of a few magics that disrupted the link.

Added suspense is definately a bonus.

 

[Caged Maiden]

In renaissance Venice a woman was put to death after several of her "clients" became very wealthy young widows. It turns out she was including arsenic in her cosmetics and the husbands of the women wearing the make-up were dying from contact. I used a similar tactic for an assassin of mine. She used various powders, oils and infusions to accomplish her goals, but again, dosing can be tricky. It's one thing to introduce a drug that might make someone sleepy, and completely another to "knock someone out" like general anesthesia.
Common things that are around us everywhere can have profound effects on the body, and there are many "herb bibles" that can give you ideas. Many roots to common plants are very toxic, and some, like foxglove are entirely toxic.

 

[Devor]

I will offer one possibility, since I can't try it, I don't know if it works.
a potato in a sock to the head, possibly hard enough to disrupt the brain, but soft enough to give some upon impact.
I would definately say it would stun, not sure about the knock out.

Believe it or not, the potato is a new-world crop, even despite all the Irish famines. That may may not matter for some fantasy stories, but in some heavily European stories, at least a few readers will notice.

 

[Ravana]

Substitute a turnip, and you're good to go.

 

[Jastius]

be careful with shoulder stabs. there were a few kings assassinated tat way. your shoulder has arteries that can have you bleeding to death.
why stab anyone? why not just throw something into their eyes to absorb directly into the blood stream?

 

[Abbas-Al-Morim]

If the assassins want him alive wouldn't that make them kidnappers? Unless they kill him, they aren't assassins.

If it's their profession so to speak (e.g. they're part of a secret brotherhood of killers) then why would they go after the protagonist? Wouldn't it be better to send someone more specialized? While the skillsets for kidnapping and killing overlap to a certain degree, there are some fundamentally different skills in play.

 

[Aidan of the tavern]

If the assassins want him alive wouldn't that make them kidnappers? Unless they kill him, they aren't assassins.

If it's their profession so to speak (e.g. they're part of a secret brotherhood of killers) then why would they go after the protagonist? Wouldn't it be better to send someone more specialized? While the skillsets for kidnapping and killing overlap to a certain degree, there are some fundamentally different skills in play.

True, but they kill people as well, and I couldn't think of a good blanket term for them. The authorities condemn them as assassin's because it's the punchiest term for antagonising them in the public eye. Or something like that .

 

[Homicida]

What if your protag was in a tavern? If I were paired with other assassins and "stalking my prey", as I can imagine they would, I might send a "tavern wench" over to his table with a drink. She might sit on his lap, set her drink down next to his while making small talk. She wraps her long arms around his neck, whispering in his ear to distract him. Then she picks up his drink and continues around the bar as if she has no more interest in him. He picks up her tainted drink, not realizing the ruse, and drinks the poison...

 

[Aidan of the tavern]

What if your protag was in a tavern? If I were paired with other assassins and "stalking my prey", as I can imagine they would, I might send a "tavern wench" over to his table with a drink. She might sit on his lap, set her drink down next to his while making small talk. She wraps her long arms around his neck, whispering in his ear to distract him. Then she picks up his drink and continues around the bar as if she has no more interest in him. He picks up her tainted drink, not realizing the ruse, and drinks the poison...

That's actually a really good idea. Yes, I'll consider it.