• Welcome to the Fantasy Writing Forums. Register Now to join us!

Preference: "and" or "-ing"?

Svrtnsse

Staff
Article Team
Consider these sentences:
Linnea sipped her tea, hiding her face in the cup.
Linnea sipped her tea and hid her face in the cup.


Which one do you prefer?
Is there a specific reason one of them appeals to you more than the other?
 

Ireth

Myth Weaver
I use both when I feel they're needed. To me, an "ing" word combined with another action implies that the two are taking place at the exact same time, while "and" would often indicate at least a slight delay.
 

Svrtnsse

Staff
Article Team
I use both when I feel they're needed. To me, an "ing" word combined with another action implies that the two are taking place at the exact same time, while "and" would often indicate at least a slight delay.

Thanks. I think that sort of puts my feelings about it into words.
 

T.Allen.Smith

Staff
Moderator
Consider these sentences:

Linnea sipped her tea, hiding her face in the cup.

Linnea sipped her tea and hid her face in the cup.

Which one do you prefer? Is there a specific reason one of them appeals to you more than the other?

Two points:

1) I use both in order to vary the sound in the prose. My preference is for whichever sounds right within the context.

2) The meaning is slightly different. The first shows action that takes place in a more simultaneous fashion. The second shows the action as more of a sequence. It's a fine distinction but it could matter depending on your goal.

Edit: Ninja'd
 

Malik

Auror
Cheese knife, paring knife.

Each has a use but technically each one works.

I generally like the present participle better because it changes things up, but I'll trade them back and forth, using whichever carries the better cadence and sonority. Also, I try to avoid repeating sentence structures unless I'm purposefully trying to make a point with them.
 

Penpilot

Staff
Article Team
If it were one or the other, I'd chose the first.

The first one the picture is being painted all at once.

The second one, the "and" is a bit of a speed bum in putting together the image.

Honestly, my personal preference would be to construct it differently. Obviously without context mileage may vary on if my preferences would work better.

Linnea hid her face behind her tea cup and sipped.

The tea cup hid Linnea's face as she sipped.
 
Last edited:

Dragev

Scribe
I don't want to get technical but "Linnea hid her face behind her tea cup and sipped" sounds really stilted to me.
Anyway, I agree with the above posters; "Linnea sipped her tea, hiding her face in the cup" means it happens at the same time (and implies that she deliberately sips her tea to hide her face)

"Linnea sipped her tea and hid her face in the cup" actually sounds like she picks up her cup, drinks the tea, puts the cup down again and then tries to hide her face in it (so she has a very small head or a very big cup :D ; behind would be a better choice in both cases, I guess). The "and" makes it two distinct actions following one another.
 

BWFoster78

Myth Weaver
If I recall correctly, the book Self Editing for Fiction Writers makes an argument against overuse of the -ing verb form. Can't remember the exact argument against, though.

EDIT: This doesn't apply to the example, but one common problem with the use of the -ing form is the creation of logical or logistical impossibilities. For example:

Rising from her chair, Linnea exited the room.

I see this kind of thing a lot in works that I critique. The author is trying to vary the sentence structure by using the introductory phrase but doesn't think about what he's actually conveying. My mind is picturing Linnea walking out the door holding the chair while straightening.

The sentence should have read something like:

After rising from her chair, Linnea exited the room.

Just something to watch for...
 
Last edited:

C Hollis

Troubadour
If I recall correctly, the book Self Editing for Fiction Writers makes an argument against overuse of the -ing verb form. Can't remember the exact argument against, though. It was a decent book, though.

The book discusses how using these phrases, particularly at the beginning of a sentence, can weaken the writing. The "as" and "-ing" phrases tend to place the action in a way where it comes off unimportant, incidental. Which, in my opinion, if it is not important, why waste the space.

However, in the example given above, I think it is quite effective and does not come off as incidental. As a matter of fact, I think it paints the perfect picture. I much prefer it over the "and" structure in this case.

BTW, Self Editing for Fiction Writers is one of the books on my desk that seldom gets closed.
 

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
Not sure I buy the idea that is necessarily weakens your writing, but I agree that certain constructions imply a simultaneity of events, and people sometimes combine two events that can't be happening together and it causes a problem.
 

Svrtnsse

Staff
Article Team
For reference, here's how it ended up:

Linnea hurried to take a sip of her tea, hiding her face behind the cup.

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I seem to be out of "thanks" for the day already.
 

T.Allen.Smith

Staff
Moderator
This doesn't apply to the example, but one common problem with the use of the -ing form is the creation of logical or logistical impossibilities.
For example:

Rising from her chair, Linnea exited the room.

I see this kind of thing a lot in works that I critique. The author is trying to vary the sentence structure by using the introductory phrase but doesn't think about what he's actually conveying. My mind is picturing Linnea walking out the door holding the chair while straightening.

The sentence should have read something like:

After rising from her chair, Linnea exited the room.

Just something to watch for...

I disagree. The original sentence is clear, yet weak. It's a stretch to try and tie any extra meaning other than what is commonly understood. It's not the structure at fault here. It's the verb choice, if anything.

Rising from her chair, Linnea exited the room.

Could it be written better, with a more precise verb than "rising"? Yes, I believe so. But, beginning a sentence with an -ing word is valid and can certainly work. In my view, adding the word "after", or anything like it to the beginning makes the action read like a dry sequence of movements.
 
Last edited:

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
It is interesting how readers perceive words differently.

If I read "Rising from her chair, Linnea exited the room" I tend to read it as closer to a simultaneous act than I like, and I'd probably instead say "Linnea rose from her chair and exited the room."

But in the case of the OP's example, I think the -ing form works just fine.
 

T.Allen.Smith

Staff
Moderator
It is interesting how readers perceive words differently.

If I read "Rising from her chair, Linnea exited the room" I tend to read it as closer to a simultaneous act than I like, and I'd probably instead say "Linnea rose from her chair and exited the room."

But in the case of the OP's example, I think the -ing form works just fine.


Yeah. The second example doesn't really fit the argument (Sorry Brian 8) ). I think the OPs sentence structure is fine.

In line with the sentiment Brian was talking about, I do think there are times when starting with an -ing word can muddy the image and damage clarity. It's just not always the case. I do agree with him though that it is worth consideration.

If it were me, I'd probably write the sentence about Linnea standing by including more detailed action, not just the act of standing, but the standing and the movement, or action, that takes place as she exits.

I don't think an -ing beginning is one of those instances where editing that structure out of your work is always necessary.
 
Last edited:

BWFoster78

Myth Weaver
I disagree. The original sentence is clear, yet weak. It's a stretch to try and tie any extra meaning other than what is commonly understood. It's not the structure at fault here. It's the verb choice, if anything.

Rising from her chair, Linnea exited the room.

Could it be written better, with a more precise verb than "rising"? Yes, I believe so. But, beginning a sentence with an -ing word is valid and can certainly work. In my view, adding the word "after", or anything like it to the beginning makes the action read like a dry sequence of movements.

T.Allen,

I thought I had made clear that the problem I presented is something you need to watch for, not something that is always a problem. Apologies for not being clearer.

Take this example:

Lighting the fire, she warmed her hands.

This construction implies that "lighting the fire" and the character warming her hands occur at the same time. Logically, it's not possible to do both at the same time as a fire provides no warmth before it is lit.

The problem only comes into play when you have two actions that do not, or cannot, occur at the same time. No problem is created in any other instance.
 

T.Allen.Smith

Staff
Moderator
I thought I had made clear that the problem I presented is something you need to watch for, not something that is always a problem. Apologies for not being clearer.

No need. You did state that condition. I addressed that sentiment in the following post. My apologies for the confusion.

Take this example:

Lighting the fire, she warmed her hands.

This construction implies that "lighting the fire" and the character warming her hands occur at the same time. Logically, it's not possible to do both at the same time as a fire provides no warmth before it is lit.

The problem only comes into play when you have two actions that do not, or cannot, occur at the same time. No problem is created in any other instance.

Yes. An excellent example. Thank you.
 

Penpilot

Staff
Article Team
Speed bum, n. Hobo lying in road.

(sorry, couldn't resist. The image was suddenly there in my headlights.)

OMG... hahahha... nice catch. Now I have this image of hobos selling their services as a speed bump, so every time you enter a parking lot, there's a hobo just lying there. I have brain farts like this all the time. One time I had it pointed out that one of my characters was putting sweat and low into their coffee. :p
 
I think it depends on the flow of the story. Both can be overused. I think there is a way to balance them out. If "ing" is used to much, it's best find a different words such as "and" or something else. The same can be used for "and". Also, like a lot of people said, '"ing" is used when two actions are done at the same time while "and" can differ. Personally, in this particular sentence, I think "and" sounds better. It just fits better to me, but it always depends on the text, really.
 
Last edited:
Top