throwing knives -- range/accuracy

[J.C. Bell]

Does anyone have info on typical range/accuracy ratios for throwing knives? I’ve seen it done in several live shows with a great degree of accuracy but only with a limited distance. Does the style of knife matter? In the movies they always make it seem like the character can throw any type of knife with pin-point accuracy, any truth to that? Could I really take down a zombie twenty feet away by throwing a butter knife?
Lastly, is it even realistic that throwing knives would be utilized as a viable projectile weapon in a melee, or again is that more of a Hollywood style fight scene?
Thanks as always,
J.C. Bell

 

[Malik]

Throwing a knife looks cool but from a tactical perspective it is breathtakingly stupid. You can be trained to do it, but the problem with having a knife and throwing it is . . . well . . . you had a knife, and you threw it. What the hell were you thinking?

Unless you hit someone in the neck or straight through the skull, you probably won't kill them fast enough to do you any good. Even a heart shot could take minutes to drop somebody who's really amped up. Even a really painful wound, like a hit to the face, probably won't deter your opponent. (Multiple stabs to the face, though? Wonderful deterrent. That's a tip, kids; write it down.)

Worst case, you miss.

Actually, check that: worst case, they catch it.

All this said, I've seen knife-throwing demonstrations at up to 10 yards. It takes a lot of training, and the people I know who are really good at it have specialized knives. Unless you do it all the time, you need to know the exact distance to your target so you know how much spin to put on the knife for it to land point-first. I don't know how you'd do that on a moving target. There is a no-spin throw but it takes a specialized type of blade and the wind-up is almost balletic; I can't imagine using it unless your opponent was sinking in quicksand. Otherwise he could cross the distance and kill you before you could loose the weapon.

There are a couple of guys in my archery club who do this for sport. They can hit and group with comparable accuracy to a traditional bow at 8-10 yards. Fairly tight groups and the occasional bullseye. Both of them tell me that they would never throw a knife in self-defense unless they had no other option -- and even then, only if they had another knife or a gun handy.

You also will not be able to throw a knife hard enough to puncture any kind of armor well enough to deal a significant wound, beyond a quilted linen jack. There's just not a lot of mass behind it.

It sure looks cool, though. Most readers won't know the difference, so go for it if you're married to the idea.

 

[Clarence Matthews]

Tough one. I would be lead to believe this is more of a parlor trick rather than proven combat method. Sure knives can be thrown accurately by a skilled person but thrown knives carry a great deal of their momentum in the fact that they are spinning foreword so the throw has to be timed perfectly so that the tip of the blade comes in contact with the target at an angle that allows it's momentum to push the blade in into the target.

So if a knife is thrown so that spins one revolution every five feet the knife would only be in a position to strike with its piercing tip once every five feet not from where the thrower is standing but from where the thrower releases the knife. So the thrower needs to mentally calculate before every throw at what revolutions does he need to throw it at so that is strikes the target blade first and not sideways for every single throw. That is with a specially crafted throwing knife. The butter knife mentioned has not be precisely crafted to be aerodynamic and weighted so it is balanced a butter knife is likely to have less predictable flight pattern. A throwing knife is a very specifically shaped weapon and is in no way just a regular pocket knife.

I don't know about how deeply the knife might penetrate off the top of my head but I history has a long record of all sorts of throwing weapons, axes, knives, clubs, shurikens, spikes, discs, rocks, hammers and whatnot. But keep in mind when it comes to writing fantasy nothing is impossible and stranger things have happened.

 

[Caged Maiden]

throwing knives is like trick shot pool... I've thrown knives. I hang out with people who are good at throwing knives... I played Assassin's Creed II which makes it look so easy...

In reality, if you threw your knife, you probably lose a knife. It's a kinda neat looking weapon, and sure, there are many people who can really throw knives. But the thing is, you throw from distances so you know how many rotations you need. So, from the 15' line, I need two and a half rotations, I throw with the blade in my hand, etc.

 

[Caged Maiden]

I should also mention that despite my doubts about the legitimacy of throwing knives.. in my world, it's much more like Assassin's Creed II than real life. My characters DO use throwing knives. But you never see them throw them. One charcter uses one to stab a man's hand, and the other uses it to threaten another guy. I guess it's because I know how hard it is to throw them. I do, however like throwing knives for one reason, they're light, slender, and fit into a handy sheath you can strap to your ribs or thigh. They make excellent concealed weapons. But as far as throwing them? I'm not sure I could write it accurately if I was actually trying to kill someone with one. I'd have to make it a botched assassination or something. HA Sorry, Ezio, you're my hero but you're too good to be true.

 

[Malik]

I should add, too, that I have no personal experience with this other than watching demonstrations. I did once play several rounds of mumblety-peg with a couple of bored Foreign Legionnaires, though, and I think that should count.

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

I used to throw knives for a bit of fun long ago, and notwithstanding everything else if the knife is weighted correctly with a heavier blade than a hilt, you will bury it in flesh probably seven or eight times out of ten assuming you hit your target. The reason is that if the knife blade hits assuming it's not past it's mid point in the spin (i.e. horizontal), it will bury itself. Afterwards it will still dig in a little but not as greatly. And if the handle hits provided it's past horizontal, the knife will bounce a little and the blade will dig in.

The problem you face is how deeply the knife penetrates. If the handle hits first a lot of the force of the blow is absorbed by it and when the blade flicks around it won't have even half the impact force left. If the blade hits on too steep of an angle the tip will bite but the spinning motion will carry the knife along digging the blade tip out and the handle will hit with the remains of the force.

I've never seen a knife thrown successfully without spinning it, that's more for spears I think. But mechanical knife throwers do exist and they will launch a blade like a spear.

However if you want a throwing weapon like a knife a throwing star is a far better bet. They always dig in to flesh or dart boards. But speaking from regrettable experience, you can cut yourself quite badly with them.

Cheers, Greg.

 

[wordwalker]

The way I sum it up is:

First, all that practice to align the blade with the target-- at each range, under combat conditions? For any sane assassin, replace throwing knives with throwing stars.

Second, that is only for assassins, since only ambushing a target who can't even flinch when it comes at his throat, or using poison (when you can prepare it and then run away), is liable to give you proper stopping power. For warriors, thrown knife= "axe," if they aren't carrying a full-sized spear or more.

Thrown knives look cool because they look vastly harder than throwing other things, because they are. For a weapon, that's just what you don't want.

 

[Yellow]

First of all I don't have any experience in combat, of any kind. With that out of the way, I'd say that throwing knives might be usefull, depending on what you want to use them for. If you want to ride into battle throwing knives like confetti of death and hit 20 out of 20 marks you'll probably run intoa wall. To me the throwing knife would be more of a tactical weapon: Distraction, intimidation, poisoning a target from affar to incapacitate him, creating the illusion that there are more attackers than there actually are, all these uses would seem much more plausible to me than throwing a knife at a guy's head to straight up kill him. Another interesting use would be as a signature of sorts. I can totally picture some badass assassin leaving ornate throwing knives at the scene of the crime to distinguish his work from regular murder.

 

[Dragev]

I think it's more of a tactical weapon (as Yellow above states it), however, that also goes for throwing stars/shuriken; I remember reading something by Masaaki Hatsumi (Masaaki Hatsumi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) who said they are used for distraction and not for killing as it's not efficient enough (coming from a man who can probably kill with a straw).

If you want some IRL effective throwing weapons, look to axes or javelins.

 

[Noma Galway]

I have throwing knives in my WIP, and my MC is trained to use them. Even so, I did learn a lot about using them in fantasy, and half the time my MC misses, or hits, but it hits with the hilt. I maybe have someone dying from being hit by one 3 in ten times, possibly less.

 

[wordwalker]

Poison, or ambushes? distractions just before you swing your sword? Yes, but:

All this said, I've seen knife-throwing demonstrations at up to 10 yards. It takes a lot of training, and the people I know who are really good at it have specialized knives. Unless you do it all the time, you need to know the exact distance to your target so you know how much spin to put on the knife for it to land point-first. I don't know how you'd do that on a moving target. There is a no-spin throw but it takes a specialized type of blade and the wind-up is almost balletic; I can't imagine using it unless your opponent was sinking in quicksand. Otherwise he could cross the distance and kill you before you could loose the weapon.

Even when a small blade works, why would you make yourself crazy to make it a knife instead of a throwing star?

Ok, "rule of cool"-- but it's just risky writing to make a change some readers can catch that easily, that looks like you don't know the difference.

 

[Jabrosky]

Exactly what is meant by "throwing knife" here?

I always thought African throwing knives looked pretty cool, but apparently their primary use was hunting:

 

[wordwalker]

That's not a knife.

THAT's a knife:

 

[Dragev]

Well, Jabrosky's pictures certainly look dangerous; I'd hate to have those things thrown at me. However, they don't look very practical to have to carry for anything longer than a hunt.

 

[wordwalker]

They look like they'd have the same advantage as an axe: balanced to hit blade-first, and the weight to actually hurt someone. But they do look too awkward to carry around in battle, and maybe too expensive to throw at someone who might run away with it (let alone throw it back).

 

[Malik]

I'd put those toward the bottom of the list of things I'd like to have thrown at me.

High on the list: declawed kittens, money, those two LARP elf-girls making out in that one picture all over the internet

Low on the list: plutonium, fragmentation grenades, really angry large dogs, those things Jabrosky posted