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How much magic is too much magic?

Terra Arkay

Minstrel
How much magic is too much magic?

Say for example I was to create a world where everyone was omnipotent, would that ruin the rarity of being able to harness the power of magic?

When should one draw the boundary line limiting the use of magic?

Well I was thinking perhaps I could have a character who has a certain amount of magic but could only become omnipotent with the use of technology. What do you think about this concept?
 

Zak

Dreamer
It always depends on the story. It is completely reasonable to have everyone have magical abilities, but this can make the story blander by eliminating that "coolness" of having magical abilities.

Your concept is unique though-use it.
 

Hans

Sage
Say for example I was to create a world where everyone was omnipotent, would that ruin the rarity of being able to harness the power of magic?
You could fill big tomes with philosophical questions about that world. Like "Can someone create something that an other one can not undo?"

When should one draw the boundary line limiting the use of magic?
I would say, when it is no longer possible to create a good conflict, because magic solves everything. As long as you can build a good conflict and write a good story around that there is no too much.

Well I was thinking perhaps I could have a character who has a certain amount of magic but could only become omnipotent with the use of technology. What do you think about this concept?
Is that your protagonist? How do you put interesting problems on him?
 

TWErvin2

Auror
If a character has virtually no limitations (or everyone due to magic) then what conflict or struggle will there be? Maybe a titanic one with mega powerful beings clashing?

In most fantasy works there is some limiting factor with magic:
Components to get it to work, years and years of study--if one can find a mentor to teach it--including possible expenses for the training
Limited by some natural ability
Users of magic are feared and hunted
A guild which controls what happens for the good of society or the guild
It requires energy and effort is expended and thus limitations exist
It takes something from the caster to use--age, sanity, strength, disfigures
Inherent dangers in using magic--unpredicatable, will draw the attention of powerful creatures

There are many possiblities.

If everyone through magic is omnipotent (or a combination of magic and technology), thus everyone is all powerful and bascially unlimited (ie gods in themselves) it may be difficult for readers to identify, feel empathy, care about the charcters and world. Not impossible, but quite a hurdle to overcome.

Just my two cents.
 

Legendary Sidekick

The HAM'ster
Moderator
The main character in my story stumbles onto super-human powers. What he's capable of doing physically basically makes him seem omnipotent. But as the story progresses, he discovers some limitations:

While bullets bounce harmlessly off of his chest, a master swordsman can easily slice through his arm or take his head off. A hundred-foot drop is harmless, but a thousand-foot drop results in several broken bones. He is also committed to a high moral standard (a condition for keeping his power), which means taking a human life is something that this character cannot do. In war, he can use his brute strength to carry fallen soldiers to a healer or he can use his body as a human shield to protect the innocent. But he can't fight.

Of course, his most dangerous opponents are seven demon lords in gigantic, distorted sentient forms. Raw muscle proves to be of little use in some of these battles.

What I am hoping to have pulled off is that I presented the reader with a protagonist who's as strong as Superman and made him seem vulnerable.
 
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Dreamhand

Troubadour
Sidekick, what is the hero's character arc? What is the path of growth you see for him in terms of weaknesses to overcome and ambitions achieved? What is the Hero's Journey you envision for him?

Omnipotence is an intriguing quality and has lots of potential as a story element. What is it about that particular element that drew you to it as a story theme?
 

Legendary Sidekick

The HAM'ster
Moderator
Sidekick, what is the hero's character arc? What is the path of growth you see for him in terms of weaknesses to overcome and ambitions achieved? What is the Hero's Journey you envision for him?
Well... I've already written 155,000 words, and am basically tweaking/polishing and splitting the story into two books. (Might add/trim/cut chapters.)

Despite that^, the main character's arc is hard (for me) to explain. I can tell you that he starts off as a superhero's sidekick known as "Errandboy" (regular guy, no superpowers), he gains superpowers, learns to use them, learns their purpose, and sets out to use his powers for that purpose... but really, the main character only cares about the female lead, and whether she dies or not. It's a time-travel story, so think Doc Brown and Marty McFly, except that when McFly goes back to the present and sees Brown alive and well, they won't plan a wedding.

One weakness to overcome is that having super strength doesn't mean he can do everything or save everyone. He has to trust his friends to do their part in battle, and what's very hard for him is to accept a friend sacrificing himself.

Another weakness is having to hold himself up to a different standard. As I already mentioned, taking a human life is forbidden for the main character. I've already written two endings to the series: one where he kills the main villain, one where he does not. I haven't decided which to keep.

He needs to defeat seven demon lords, and the humans who conjured them.

The hero journeys across time and space in his mission to prevent the annihilation of all human life in the solar system. But his personal goal is to start a family with the female lead.

Omnipotence is an intriguing quality and has lots of potential as a story element. What is it about that particular element that drew you to it as a story theme?
I always wondered what it would be like to have super-powers, and I always played barbarian types in RPGs, so extreme super strength seemed like an interesting power for the main character. But make no mistake. He's not omnipotent, nor is he immortal. There are other characters that are more or less his equal.
 
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Dreamhand

Troubadour
Wow... you've clearly put a LOT of effort into this story. 150K words is roughly a 300-page novel! I'm curious as to why - after investing so much time and creativity into this tale - you're posing these questions now? Is something not gelling for you in terms of story arc or character development? Have you had readers look over your work and give you feedback?
 

Legendary Sidekick

The HAM'ster
Moderator
I wasn't asking the questions. I was just telling Terra Arkay (the OP) how I dealt with "too much magic," by giving an example of how my over-powered characters still have limitations. Feedback tells me my story/world/characters are interesting to those who read it... though I personally think I can grow as a writer, hence the desire for a slight revision. (Most likely, I will gradually do the revision while mainly focusing on new material.)
 

Dreamhand

Troubadour
Dude... my bad. I confused you and Terra Arkay, thinking you had started the thread. Withdraw previous comment, with my apologies.
 

Codey Amprim

Staff
Article Team
I think when it gets to the point where there is a spell for everything is when the author needs some serious revising to do. There can't be a spell for every minor (and major) problem, otherwise you begin to lose legitimacy with your characters. I want to know how someone would deal with a problem, not just see them flip a wrist and the issue completely go away - that, in my eyes, is laziness.
 

SeverinR

Vala
The best example is superman.

The story was interseting for a while, but eventually, people realized superman was invinsible. All the super villains could do was tire him out, he was in no real threat. So they had to find a weakness.

Most of us won't have to deal with the eventual realization that a MC is undefeatable, because the book ends before they realize.
But the stronger one side is, the less believable conflict will be.

If a mage can cause a nuclear blast, then no army can stand against him/her. Nations would have to bow to who ever could cast this magic. But if one can do it, then another could too. Super mages would worry of another super mage getting close enough to nuke them. Nations would cower to these mages, but could not chose one over the other, because they would be nuked by the other.
One person rules the world because of super magic ability.
Either society figures out a way to kill the mages, prevent others from learning this magic or they are enslaved by those that do.
Super powerful magic must have a balance, or the unbalanced power makes having conflict nearly impossible. If a mage can nuke a major city, how does three peons sneak up on this powerful mage? Wouldn't he/she have protections?
 

Legendary Sidekick

The HAM'ster
Moderator
Dude... my bad. I confused you and Terra Arkay, thinking you had started the thread. Withdraw previous comment, with my apologies.
No apology necessary... I'm still new at this. Writing 150,000 words is nothing if I'm clueless about marketing my work.

Severin R, your post just reminded me of a Baldur's Gate PC game I played with some friends. Magic was outlawed, so if anyone in our party casted a spell in public, templars would appear out of nowhere (magically, the hypocrites!) and attack us.

Also, I agree with your thoughts on Superman. It doesn't help that he keeps rising from the dead. So... even if you kill him, he doesn't die!
 

fcbkid15

Scribe
I love to include magic in my stories. It's especially fun to include it in a fight scene, coming up with different spells and what not. However, it's not fun if the magic user has a spell for everything, and can easily escape dangerous situations. It's been repeated several times, but don't make the magic be all powerful. Unless your character is a god or is supposed to have godlike powers, don't make him or her super powerful. Yes for some readers its cool to see how powerful somebody is, and say "That's so cool! (insert name) is so powerful!" But for most it is fun to have the magic user be powerful, but still have challenges and not be perfect. Have the magic take a toll on the user. I mean, look at Raistlin from the dragonlance novels. He is an all powerful being, but his form is crippled, he is miserable, and he is weakened by using his magic.

Now you don't have to do something exactly like this, but something along the lines. Maybe have the magic user not know a spell that would come in handy in a situation. I've actually used this example before in one of my stories, but have the magic take a heavy toll on the user, and not give him enough time to rest. In mine the magic user used a powerful spell that takes a few days to recover from, but later on in the night which he used it, they encounter more trouble and he cannot do anything, being weakened.

These are just my two cents though, but I hope it helps.
 

Terra Arkay

Minstrel
The best example is superman.

The story was interseting for a while, but eventually, people realized superman was invinsible. All the super villains could do was tire him out, he was in no real threat. So they had to find a weakness.

Most of us won't have to deal with the eventual realization that a MC is undefeatable, because the book ends before they realize.
But the stronger one side is, the less believable conflict will be.

If a mage can cause a nuclear blast, then no army can stand against him/her. Nations would have to bow to who ever could cast this magic. But if one can do it, then another could too. Super mages would worry of another super mage getting close enough to nuke them. Nations would cower to these mages, but could not chose one over the other, because they would be nuked by the other.
One person rules the world because of super magic ability.
Either society figures out a way to kill the mages, prevent others from learning this magic or they are enslaved by those that do.
Super powerful magic must have a balance, or the unbalanced power makes having conflict nearly impossible. If a mage can nuke a major city, how does three peons sneak up on this powerful mage? Wouldn't he/she have protections?

Yeah yeah, I totally agree. Perhaps I'll leave the super powerful magic to the 'Watchers' as I call em in my story :p
 

Sheilawisz

Queen of Titania
Moderator
If a mage can cause a nuclear blast, then no army can stand against him/her. Nations would have to bow to who ever could cast this magic. But if one can do it, then another could too. Super mages would worry of another super mage getting close enough to nuke them. Nations would cower to these mages, but could not chose one over the other, because they would be nuked by the other.
One person rules the world because of super magic ability.
Either society figures out a way to kill the mages, prevent others from learning this magic or they are enslaved by those that do.
Super powerful magic must have a balance, or the unbalanced power makes having conflict nearly impossible. If a mage can nuke a major city, how does three peons sneak up on this powerful mage? Wouldn't he/she have protections?
In my fantasy stories I have super mages that can easily nuke cities, and that's not a very special power or some sort of forbidden weapon that they fear to use... it's just a common weapon and all of them can do it =)

I have no trouble in my stories for having mages like that... They usually abuse and kill common people (who are utterly defenseless against the magic) also my mages do not care to rule their worlds as they let the people have their own Queens, and to create a conflict I simply have different cultures of mages that fight each other- it's fun!!

Sheila
 

Thalian

Scribe
Personally, I hate the Forgotten Realms novels that end up being a massive spell-duel. Each character gets shredded more than once and they are magically healed so they can return to firing off a seemingly endless amount of spells. But magic does have it's place, in my story there are lots of mages yet in a big battle they are usually counteracted by mages that are only able to cast defensive enchantments or whatnot, so not many spells get through to rip through an enemies ranks. Just give me two skilled swordsmen and an epic yet realistic duel between them and I will call myself happy.
 
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