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[Reading Group] March 2014: His Majesty's Dragon Discussion

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
I'm going to finish it, certainly. And I won't want to make it out like it is terrible - it is not. I think the writing has some problems, and maybe Novik overcomes those in later books. It's a bit too detached from the MC to make me care about him. But the concept is interesting, and I quite like Temeraire. Further, I found Chapter 3 (I think it was) enjoyable. I'll have more specifics when we break it down.
 

Philip Overby

Staff
Article Team
Yeah, I like Temeraire a lot too so far and I think the book is decent so far. I'm going with the idea that this is going to be a slow burn so I'm hoping to see various things shine through later.
 

Gryphos

Auror
I don't not like the book at all. In fact I'm really enjoying it, mainly just due to the concept. I couldn't help but grin when Laurence was describing the Battle of the Nile in terms of how many dragons each side had.
 

T.Allen.Smith

Staff
Moderator
I agree that the dragons being born & instantly speaking English is hokey. It would have been better if there had been some learning curve, even an accelerated one due to some psychic bond between rider's mind and dragon.

The trouble I have with the writing is simple. It's overly wordy without adding anything special to the prose.
 

Philip Overby

Staff
Article Team
I'm still moving pretty slow so far (only just started Chapter 2) so if anyone else wants to pose any questions or points of discussion for this week, feel free to do so.
 

ACSmyth

Minstrel
I've just finished part 2 and they address the language thing in the last chapter of that part.

Temeraire meets a French dragon and rider, and Temeraire addresses them in French. They express surprise at how good his English is, and say that he obviously picked it up on the ship, because dragons learn language "through the egg". A lot has been made by this point about how quick Temeraire is to learn things (he's learning mathematics from books Lawrence is reading to him, and explaining them to Lawrence), so she is lampshading that particular element.
 

Ophiucha

Auror
Yes, she does eventually get around to explaining that. She can be a bit... delayed in addressing things. Everything has an answer, characters get their characterization, but it happens ages after you've nearly forgotten you ever asked the question and you just sort of learned to live with accepting it as part of the story. It works sometimes, doesn't work others.

As for her writing style, she's a huge fan of Master & Commander/Aubrey-Maturin books. Those books are sort of Austen-y with a bit of general Age of Sail-type period jargon. Given the similarities in setting (aside from the dragons) and her love of the series, I'm guessing the style is a mix of that and a bit of the usual fantasy roots. I've only read a bit of one before I gave up - they aren't my sort of thing (no dragons) - so I can't say for sure, but if anyone has read them, do offer your input.

And I kind of like Laurence, but I do love a traditional stick-up-the-arse Brit who gets stuck with a series of whimsical, "plebeian" inconveniences. Probably because I'm British. :p
 

T.Allen.Smith

Staff
Moderator
What I do like about the book so far is the relationship building between Laurence & Temeraire. I think it's being paced well & it's setting up for the future when their survival will depend on it.

I just wish the author didn't use so many superfluous words. I find myself mentally editing them out which damages immersion.
 

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
I like wordy books, if they're well done. I liked Master and Commander. I like Jane Austen. I feel like Novik is trying to emulate that style, but not entirely successfully.

My ambivalence toward Laurence isn't that he's a stick-in-the-mud sort of guy. That's fine. I like that sort of character well enough. My ambivalence is due to to the fact that Novik hasn't given me any reason thus far to care about him one way or another.
 

T.Allen.Smith

Staff
Moderator
I like wordy books, if they're well done. I liked Master and Commander. I like Jane Austen. I feel like Novik is trying to emulate that style, but not entirely successfully.
I don't mind wordiness if it's adding an effect. Here I don't think it adds anything positive to the prose. So yeah, if she's trying to emulate snobbish society language, it's a bit off the mark.
 

Ophiucha

Auror
I kind of hate wordiness, in fiction. :p Novik's attempts bothers me less than most fantasy books purely as its a sort of wordiness I'm less tired of, in the emulated style of the early 19th century novel instead of the high fantasy sort. Though I think she's actually a bit better at writing in the high fantasy style - it sort of comes through when she's dealing with things like how Temeraire moves or the extended worldbuilding.
 

SM-Dreamer

Troubadour
I finished the first part, and I like the style of writing so far. I don’t mind the wordiness; I just hear that proper British-ness in my head, and go with it. I wasn’t too attached to the story at first, though, but before I knew it, I was involved enough that I kept telling myself that I’d stop once I found out x information, then it became Y, then before I knew it, I was 50 pages in.

ophiucha said:
And I kind of like Laurence, but I do love a traditional stick-up-the-arse Brit who gets stuck with a series of whimsical, "plebeian" inconveniences. Probably because I'm British.
I think this is why I kind of like Laurence (without being British myself); there’s something about an uptight gentleman getting forced into something like this that appeals to me.

Though I was thrown off by Temeraire’s speaking. I do like that he’s very matter of fact when he speaks, though. And the end of part one got to me, I thought it was touching.
 

Ophiucha

Auror
Finished re-reading it last night. Part one drags a bit, but it does get a lot of the necessary information and foreshadowing in. And we get a nice start to the relationship between Laurence and Temeraire, which I think is one of the strengths of the series as a whole.

A small thing that I quite like, worldbuilding-wise, is that dragons don't have a universal personality or intellect. The fact that the second dragon we 'meet' is... a little slow, for lack of a more PC word... is a nice change of pace.

And I really do like how she describes dragon/animal movement. I don't love all of her writing (see: the past page's discussion) but she's really got this evocative imagery down for how dragons walk and fly and look around...
 

Philip Overby

Staff
Article Team
How is everyone else coming with this? I haven't read it much this week, so I'm hoping this weekend I'll get through the first block (Chapters 1-3).

It's interesting to note that some people are seemingly enjoying it the further they get in. Do you think this is the case of the novel just being hard to get into at first and becoming more rewarding later?
 

ACSmyth

Minstrel
I've pretty much enjoyed it from the get-go to be honest. It reminds me so much of things like Anne McCaffrey and other stuff that I read when I first got into fantasy that it's a bit like coming home for me. I have romped through it, and should finish it tonight. While book 2 isn't the next thing on my list, it will definitely go on my list, and I'll get to it sometime.

I've come to the conclusion that I like that I know exactly what Laurence wants, which is to protect England and care for Temeraire. In contrast, I'm three-quarters of the way through Prince of Thorns (yup, still slogging away) and am no closer to knowing what Jorg wants, or why I should care if he gets it.

Lesson learned: be clear what your main character/hero is striving for.
 

Philip Overby

Staff
Article Team
This is why I find these book groups interesting: the range of opinions on the same book can be pretty wide. Even though I didn't really relate with Jorg, I find him infinitely more interesting than Laurence so far. For me Jorg's goal was pretty clear: get revenge on Count Renar. It may not be laser-focused in some parts, but I knew that was where the story was going. That and for Jorg to carve out his own place in the world separate from his father.

My view may very well change later on in this novel though. I feel like I'm still in the set-up stage (Chapter 2). The only thing that's clicked with me so far is that I find the descriptions and the way Temeraire acts pretty interesting.
 
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ACSmyth

Minstrel
Yes, I know there's the Count Renar motivation, Philip. It just seemed that Jorg wasn't actually doing anything about it. I've been told that's his motive without any real evidence of it. Do you get me? It just doesn't seem very pressing to him anymore. I know there are hints that there's some other force stopping him going out to get his revenge, and I guess that comes in the other two books, but I've been told this is what drives him and he scarcely thinks of it. At least Laurence's motives are front and centre in the story.

I just wrote a paragraph about my issues with Temeraire, as I'm by no means uncritical of it. But if I spill too much there will be spoilers, so I'll sit on my hands for a bit. Sufficient to say, there are big issues with it, but I'm enjoying it more, if that makes sense.
 
I'm well into part two. It's no hardship to read, and I find watching Laurence navigate his way in his new life more interesting than the way he was torn from his old life in part one. I like the tension between Laurence and Granby and how their relationship develops, and I'm curious to see what happens with Levitas.

But I'm still not hooked--maybe because I still have limited sympathy for, or interest in, Laurence. Not that he's a bad guy; I just don't feel pulled into his world.
 

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
I didn't mind that Lawrence doesn't dwell on Jorg's motives. I'm not sure Jorg is always completely focused to begin with. I found that it worked well enough for my tastes.
 
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