Thanks, Mr. Legend. I appreciate that you're discussing how you make the effort.
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Why Diversity in Our Writing is So Important - "The Danger of a Single Story"
- Thread starter A. E. Lowan
- Start date
Thanks, Mr. Legend. I appreciate that you're discussing how you make the effort.
Trick
Auror
Who said diversity is "so easy" ? Are you still talking about to the concept of fantasy cultures being referred to as diversity?
Who said it solved a problem? We talked about how it was a unique aspect of fantasy writing as opposed to other genres and it may have been implied that this practice in writing different cultures (though imaginary) could lead to better representation of real cultures in the future. It's like empathy practice.
The judgement of others as ignorant of "what the problems even are" seems rash.
Counter example:
I'm currently working on a scene where my male lead is spending some time alone with The Woman of the story.
Neither of these characters are human - they're anfylk (not exactly, but sort of, like hobbits).
The woman is wearing a garment that leaves most of her legs bare and my MC is getting really excited about the fine blonde fur on her legs.
So, I have a non-human race and there's a certain level of arousal based on something that's not normally considered arousing in contemporary real-world pop-culture. Sure, it might be a little original and a little bit different, but in the end it's not actual an example of some kind of diversity in the sense we're discussing in this thread (and out of context like this it probably just sounds weird).
It's just a guy getting excited by seeing female parts he's not used to seeing.
I'm currently working on a scene where my male lead is spending some time alone with The Woman of the story.
Neither of these characters are human - they're anfylk (not exactly, but sort of, like hobbits).
The woman is wearing a garment that leaves most of her legs bare and my MC is getting really excited about the fine blonde fur on her legs.
So, I have a non-human race and there's a certain level of arousal based on something that's not normally considered arousing in contemporary real-world pop-culture. Sure, it might be a little original and a little bit different, but in the end it's not actual an example of some kind of diversity in the sense we're discussing in this thread (and out of context like this it probably just sounds weird).
It's just a guy getting excited by seeing female parts he's not used to seeing.
You got our number.
And again, a woman can write a scene like this using WORK-SAFE-RESEARCH to confirm that the male mind really works this way.
(0:54 & 2:12)
Yes, click the link. The video is work-safe. I stake my credibility as a moderator (and as a dad because my kids are sitting right next to me).
Trick
Auror
Arousal is something most humans are familiar with, regardless of it's cause. But, I must say, that scene sounds amazing; funny and relatable.
This may have devolved into a disagreement about the definition of the word diversity and that's not going to go anywhere. The only thing I have left to say on this particular subject is: If I write from the perspective of someone very different than myself, whether those differences be cultural, racial, sexual, gender-related, age, belief system, experience-related, etc., I am improving myself as a writer. Even if those differences were manufactured in my own imagination, they are always based to some extent on real world aspects of humankind. If I get this experience and then attempt to write about someone imagined but with real world differences from myself I may be able to do it better than I could have before. The difference is that I could mess up and offend people or simply do it poorly and gain no readership while if I do it poorly for an imagined difference, it might not even get noticed. Diversity is not easily achieved in writing but as a fantasy writer I have a unique opportunity to practice it before dealing with the real world issues head on.
EDIT: I would like to cite a story Jabrosky posted in the showcase as a great example of this. Beyond the fact that it is very well done, it addresses racism in a fantasy setting and yet feels a lot like it addresses real world issues. Mythic Scribes, Fantasy Writing, Showcase: Cultural Contamination
This may have devolved into a disagreement about the definition of the word diversity and that's not going to go anywhere. The only thing I have left to say on this particular subject is: If I write from the perspective of someone very different than myself, whether those differences be cultural, racial, sexual, gender-related, age, belief system, experience-related, etc., I am improving myself as a writer. Even if those differences were manufactured in my own imagination, they are always based to some extent on real world aspects of humankind. If I get this experience and then attempt to write about someone imagined but with real world differences from myself I may be able to do it better than I could have before. The difference is that I could mess up and offend people or simply do it poorly and gain no readership while if I do it poorly for an imagined difference, it might not even get noticed. Diversity is not easily achieved in writing but as a fantasy writer I have a unique opportunity to practice it before dealing with the real world issues head on.
EDIT: I would like to cite a story Jabrosky posted in the showcase as a great example of this. Beyond the fact that it is very well done, it addresses racism in a fantasy setting and yet feels a lot like it addresses real world issues. Mythic Scribes, Fantasy Writing, Showcase: Cultural Contamination
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C
Chessie
Guest
This discussion took an interesting turn lol. Svrt, can I be an anfylk in your world? Shaving my legs gets exhausting. 
Back to topic though, so I read this really amazing story that is a good example of diversity in fantasy. "The Children Of The Shark God" by Peter S. Beagle in "Beyond The Pale Fantasy Anthology". Its a short story set in an Pacific island type of world and it even has characters swimming underwater and talking to animals. It was a refreshing read and I enjoyed it very much.
It was also the first time I have read a fantasy story with this type of setting. That's part of the reason its stayed with me weeks after reading it. And it was heavy on the fantasy, showing what we all know that it can be done. The author executed the story with respect for island cultures and it shone through in his work.
I think diversity is also important because it brings a new perspective to our much loved genre. We should write what inspires us but also not be afraid to explore other options. We are artists after all and even though we may have limited knowledge about other cultures outside of our own, that doesn't mean we can't learn about ones we're interested in for our work and create beautiful stories out of that.
I don't think the A.E. Lowan's intention was to say that all of us should write more diverse therefore we are failing as writers. And Ankari, while I do agree that writing about other cultures can be a lot of pressure, how are we to grow as artists if we don't expand our horizons? This is all just food for thought.
Back to topic though, so I read this really amazing story that is a good example of diversity in fantasy. "The Children Of The Shark God" by Peter S. Beagle in "Beyond The Pale Fantasy Anthology". Its a short story set in an Pacific island type of world and it even has characters swimming underwater and talking to animals. It was a refreshing read and I enjoyed it very much.
It was also the first time I have read a fantasy story with this type of setting. That's part of the reason its stayed with me weeks after reading it. And it was heavy on the fantasy, showing what we all know that it can be done. The author executed the story with respect for island cultures and it shone through in his work.
I think diversity is also important because it brings a new perspective to our much loved genre. We should write what inspires us but also not be afraid to explore other options. We are artists after all and even though we may have limited knowledge about other cultures outside of our own, that doesn't mean we can't learn about ones we're interested in for our work and create beautiful stories out of that.
I don't think the A.E. Lowan's intention was to say that all of us should write more diverse therefore we are failing as writers. And Ankari, while I do agree that writing about other cultures can be a lot of pressure, how are we to grow as artists if we don't expand our horizons? This is all just food for thought.
Feo Takahari
Auror
I have a feeling I'm going to regret saying this, but I don't think lack of representation of any specific real-world group is the problem. It's a problem, but not the problem.
Let's go back to what Ngozi said:
So Ngozi wasn't writing stories about people who looked like her. Childhood exposure to stories about people who looked like her would have been a solution. But what about childhood exposure to stories about people who don't look like anyone? What if a child reads stories about dragons, or dinosaurs, or talking cats? And for that matter, what if the stories about people who play in snow and eat apples are accompanied by stories about people who swim in the ocean and eat pineapples, or people who climb sand dunes and eat cactus fruit?
I don't have any kind of data to point to about this, but I find it likely that having more kinds of stories makes it easier to tell stories about yourself. Even if you don't have tropes to fall back on, if you see variety in depictions, you know variety is possible, and that makes it easier to create.
Personally, I don't really care about representing any one real-world group. That's not my specific goal as a writer. I simply have stories I want to tell, and using different kinds of people helps me tell them more easily. But I don't think it's a complete waste to write about times and places that never were and never will be.
ETA: For what it's worth, I'm counting Americans as a real-world group. Some of my stories have no characters who could really be considered representative of a "white" audience, because representing them wasn't my goal.
Let's go back to what Ngozi said:
So Ngozi wasn't writing stories about people who looked like her. Childhood exposure to stories about people who looked like her would have been a solution. But what about childhood exposure to stories about people who don't look like anyone? What if a child reads stories about dragons, or dinosaurs, or talking cats? And for that matter, what if the stories about people who play in snow and eat apples are accompanied by stories about people who swim in the ocean and eat pineapples, or people who climb sand dunes and eat cactus fruit?
I don't have any kind of data to point to about this, but I find it likely that having more kinds of stories makes it easier to tell stories about yourself. Even if you don't have tropes to fall back on, if you see variety in depictions, you know variety is possible, and that makes it easier to create.
Personally, I don't really care about representing any one real-world group. That's not my specific goal as a writer. I simply have stories I want to tell, and using different kinds of people helps me tell them more easily. But I don't think it's a complete waste to write about times and places that never were and never will be.
ETA: For what it's worth, I'm counting Americans as a real-world group. Some of my stories have no characters who could really be considered representative of a "white" audience, because representing them wasn't my goal.
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I've read every post after mine and I haven't seen a clear definition of diversity. Allow me to separate a few aspects of diversity for better processing. I'll keep this to the fantasy genre.
Racial
Calls for racial diversity in fantasy revolve around two principles:
1) Include racial diversity.
2) Don't use demeaning races as placeholders for people of color.
Diverse Cast
Does simply using an adjective to describe a skin color satisfy this call? If I edit a story featuring a cast of white people and change a few to different colors, are those who call for cast diversity happy?
To me, this is a superficial demand. Races are defined by their experiences. A black man born in Nigeria will identify differently with race than a black man born in Jamaica. I will speak as an Arab in this, and I'm sure almost all races are the same. Arabs don't think of themselves as white, or even Arabic. They think along the lines of region. It's common to think of people from the "Peninsula" (Saudi Arabia, UAE, Oman), as different from the people of "The Land of the Sun" (Palestine, Lebonan, Syria, and parts of Jordan), the Yeman, the North Africa, etc. If I read a book with a character based on Berber culture, I'd be as distant from that character as John O'keefe from Ireland.
So, does superficial racial considerations appease those who call for diversified casts?
Placeholder Races
I've read the same concerns as everyone else. "This ficticious race is X race." While the concern is valid, I have a hard time realizing them. I've yet to read a fantasy novel where I've said "Ah ha! This writer has taken X race and given them tusks, makes them drink blood, and are violent! What a scumbag!"
I have read many fantasy novels and said "Ah ha! This race exemplifies X human condition. How intriguing that I see parts of humanity here, and parts of humanity there!"
How much of these accusations created to fling dirt and see what sticks? What is said of those who actually see the similarities in a ficticious race with real races, especially when the ficticious race is derogatory?
Fantasy and Race
I've always believed that fantasy is a cover authors use to dispense loftier ideas, stories that capsulate humanity and all its fears and hopes. You can see this in the symbol of the dragon as a great evil and the (human) knight that vanquishes it through struggle. Such themes are in all stories (that I've read), even in the classic sword and sorcery tales of Conan.
Only after I joined this forum did I become introduced to the concept of placeholder races. Just for clarification, I am Arabic. My race/culture is the hate-flavor of the decade. We endure descrimination with little to no justice day in and day out. It has become popular and socially acceptable to demonize my people.
And I still don't see racial metaphors in fantasy. Why does everyone else?
Gender
An oft repeated advice is to write a story regardless of gender. A woman will think just like a man. Etc, etc.
I find this perplexing and simplistic. People are the result of their experiences. This applies to gender as well. Someone made a comment that, as a man, he tends to protect/save girls/women in video games because that is his instinct. Taking that thought further, this implies that gender influences the behavior of others. A man will endure different treatment than women, and vice versa. If experiences shape people, than doesn't the behaviours of others shape you? Do you (second person) not identify certain experiences with gender? Do you not become aware of what your gender means to the world at large and how best to use it to survive/advance?
Writing the point of view of marginalized people isn't enough if we don't honor the truth of their experiences. Yes, writing a character as a man than placing breasts on the character may represent a small population of readers, but did it connect with all women? If a woman wrote a female character which showcases in depth understanding of her experiences, wouldn't this better represent the female audience? To say that there shouldn't be a difference between a male author and female author writing a female character is false. There is a difference precisely because one has far more intimate knowledge of the character than the other.
I have read female authors (with considerable thanks to the Mythic Scribes Book Club). I recall a question brought up about knowing when a book is written by a woman instead of a man. Have you noticed the difference? Didn't the female author represent the female characters better than the male characters and vice versa with the male authors? Isn't reading quality character portrayal better for diversity than the sheer number of characters with breasts attached to a bland character?
I've been writing this reply for too long....
Thanks for reading.
Racial
Calls for racial diversity in fantasy revolve around two principles:
1) Include racial diversity.
2) Don't use demeaning races as placeholders for people of color.
Diverse Cast
Does simply using an adjective to describe a skin color satisfy this call? If I edit a story featuring a cast of white people and change a few to different colors, are those who call for cast diversity happy?
To me, this is a superficial demand. Races are defined by their experiences. A black man born in Nigeria will identify differently with race than a black man born in Jamaica. I will speak as an Arab in this, and I'm sure almost all races are the same. Arabs don't think of themselves as white, or even Arabic. They think along the lines of region. It's common to think of people from the "Peninsula" (Saudi Arabia, UAE, Oman), as different from the people of "The Land of the Sun" (Palestine, Lebonan, Syria, and parts of Jordan), the Yeman, the North Africa, etc. If I read a book with a character based on Berber culture, I'd be as distant from that character as John O'keefe from Ireland.
So, does superficial racial considerations appease those who call for diversified casts?
Placeholder Races
I've read the same concerns as everyone else. "This ficticious race is X race." While the concern is valid, I have a hard time realizing them. I've yet to read a fantasy novel where I've said "Ah ha! This writer has taken X race and given them tusks, makes them drink blood, and are violent! What a scumbag!"
I have read many fantasy novels and said "Ah ha! This race exemplifies X human condition. How intriguing that I see parts of humanity here, and parts of humanity there!"
How much of these accusations created to fling dirt and see what sticks? What is said of those who actually see the similarities in a ficticious race with real races, especially when the ficticious race is derogatory?
Fantasy and Race
I've always believed that fantasy is a cover authors use to dispense loftier ideas, stories that capsulate humanity and all its fears and hopes. You can see this in the symbol of the dragon as a great evil and the (human) knight that vanquishes it through struggle. Such themes are in all stories (that I've read), even in the classic sword and sorcery tales of Conan.
Only after I joined this forum did I become introduced to the concept of placeholder races. Just for clarification, I am Arabic. My race/culture is the hate-flavor of the decade. We endure descrimination with little to no justice day in and day out. It has become popular and socially acceptable to demonize my people.
And I still don't see racial metaphors in fantasy. Why does everyone else?
Gender
An oft repeated advice is to write a story regardless of gender. A woman will think just like a man. Etc, etc.
I find this perplexing and simplistic. People are the result of their experiences. This applies to gender as well. Someone made a comment that, as a man, he tends to protect/save girls/women in video games because that is his instinct. Taking that thought further, this implies that gender influences the behavior of others. A man will endure different treatment than women, and vice versa. If experiences shape people, than doesn't the behaviours of others shape you? Do you (second person) not identify certain experiences with gender? Do you not become aware of what your gender means to the world at large and how best to use it to survive/advance?
Writing the point of view of marginalized people isn't enough if we don't honor the truth of their experiences. Yes, writing a character as a man than placing breasts on the character may represent a small population of readers, but did it connect with all women? If a woman wrote a female character which showcases in depth understanding of her experiences, wouldn't this better represent the female audience? To say that there shouldn't be a difference between a male author and female author writing a female character is false. There is a difference precisely because one has far more intimate knowledge of the character than the other.
I have read female authors (with considerable thanks to the Mythic Scribes Book Club). I recall a question brought up about knowing when a book is written by a woman instead of a man. Have you noticed the difference? Didn't the female author represent the female characters better than the male characters and vice versa with the male authors? Isn't reading quality character portrayal better for diversity than the sheer number of characters with breasts attached to a bland character?
I've been writing this reply for too long....
Thanks for reading.
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Mythopoet
Auror
I only write fantasy. So for me, personally, I feel absolutely no need to portray anything as it is in the real world. I feel absolutely no need to adhere to what the real world calls "diversity". I just write stories that I would want to read and draw inspiration from all the stuff that I like. Of course, what I happen to be most inspired by are various real world mythologies from such places as Egypt, Greece, Mesopotamia, India, Japan, Ireland, Wales, and Finland. Many elements from these mythologies are mixed and blended into something I hope is somewhat unique.
I don't pay a lot of attention to the superficial physical characteristics of the people in my world. (And when I do I often favor combinations that are not natural to anyone in our world. Like brown skin and silver hair. Probably because I'm an anime fan.) What interests me a lot more are worldviews, belief systems and ways of thinking. When I research a mythology, these are the things I am looking for.
For instance, while researching Egyptian mythology I discovered how trivial most of the things that are taught in school about it, or are commonly known through popular culture, are. I read several books by Egyptologist Jan Assmann that delved deeply into the beliefs of the ancient Egyptians (I highly recommend in particular "In Search of God in Ancient Egypt" and "Death and Salvation in Ancient Egypt".) as well as reading translations of as much genuine Egyptian literature as I could find. By reading the Egyptians' actual words I felt I came closest to understanding them. Their highly unique ways of thinking and viewing the world have become the foundation of my fantasy world. And at first I didn't intend to have any pyramid type structures because I thought that would scream Egypt too loudly, but eventually I came to realize how symbolic the pyramid is of many Old Kingdom beliefs. Sometimes the physical reality is linked strongly with a deeper, spiritual reality. Those are the physical things worth keeping.
I'm working on a story that is partially inspired by The Odyssey and The Argonautica. At first, when drawing up a cast of characters, I was basing them on various Argonauts. But the list of Argonauts who actually do something interesting in the story is shorter than the number of crew members I wanted to have (16, for reasons). So I started taking characters from other Greek myths. Then I realized that it was going to get difficult to keep 16 Greek characters straight, especially since some of the ones I liked best had similar names (Makelo and Meleaker, for instance). I decided it would be a lot more interesting if I switched out some of the Greek figures with figures inspired from other mythologies that would come from other parts of my fantasy world. These could be characters that were met during the quest and added to the crew. So instead of the sons of Boreas and Castor and Pollux I included Fujin and Raijin from Japanese myth and Nasat and Dasra from Vedic myth. Instead of Orpheus I have Vaino from Vainamoinen of Finnish myth. Not only does this make my characters more interesting but it also helps me avoid more commonly known mythic names.
But I have never done anything with "diversity" in mind. I have only tried to create something that I would like to read based on all the things I am interested in. And I have no expectations except that I hope others who are interested in the same things might find it one day and read it and like it as well. I think this is the only responsibility an individual writer really has.
I don't pay a lot of attention to the superficial physical characteristics of the people in my world. (And when I do I often favor combinations that are not natural to anyone in our world. Like brown skin and silver hair. Probably because I'm an anime fan.) What interests me a lot more are worldviews, belief systems and ways of thinking. When I research a mythology, these are the things I am looking for.
For instance, while researching Egyptian mythology I discovered how trivial most of the things that are taught in school about it, or are commonly known through popular culture, are. I read several books by Egyptologist Jan Assmann that delved deeply into the beliefs of the ancient Egyptians (I highly recommend in particular "In Search of God in Ancient Egypt" and "Death and Salvation in Ancient Egypt".) as well as reading translations of as much genuine Egyptian literature as I could find. By reading the Egyptians' actual words I felt I came closest to understanding them. Their highly unique ways of thinking and viewing the world have become the foundation of my fantasy world. And at first I didn't intend to have any pyramid type structures because I thought that would scream Egypt too loudly, but eventually I came to realize how symbolic the pyramid is of many Old Kingdom beliefs. Sometimes the physical reality is linked strongly with a deeper, spiritual reality. Those are the physical things worth keeping.
I'm working on a story that is partially inspired by The Odyssey and The Argonautica. At first, when drawing up a cast of characters, I was basing them on various Argonauts. But the list of Argonauts who actually do something interesting in the story is shorter than the number of crew members I wanted to have (16, for reasons). So I started taking characters from other Greek myths. Then I realized that it was going to get difficult to keep 16 Greek characters straight, especially since some of the ones I liked best had similar names (Makelo and Meleaker, for instance). I decided it would be a lot more interesting if I switched out some of the Greek figures with figures inspired from other mythologies that would come from other parts of my fantasy world. These could be characters that were met during the quest and added to the crew. So instead of the sons of Boreas and Castor and Pollux I included Fujin and Raijin from Japanese myth and Nasat and Dasra from Vedic myth. Instead of Orpheus I have Vaino from Vainamoinen of Finnish myth. Not only does this make my characters more interesting but it also helps me avoid more commonly known mythic names.
But I have never done anything with "diversity" in mind. I have only tried to create something that I would like to read based on all the things I am interested in. And I have no expectations except that I hope others who are interested in the same things might find it one day and read it and like it as well. I think this is the only responsibility an individual writer really has.
Jabrosky
Banned
For what it's worth, I don't consider myself on the team of "calling for diversified casts", at least not in the sense of pressuring other writers to squeeze in this or that marginalized group. I'm more on the team of writing whatever personally interests me. This probably makes me unqualified to gauge exactly what is an acceptable level of diversity.
But I would be lying if racial themes, which is one subset of diversity themes, didn't interest me at all. I notice that a lot of the stories I've worked on recently are centered around those themes. "Cultural Contamination" brings up the topic of cultural exchange between different races (or "cultural appropriation" as some would call it). "The Sun Queen's New Hairstyle" was inspired by the whole tension over "good hair" in African/Afro-Diasporan communities. And now I have a short historical fiction in the works premised on the observation that lactose intolerance is more prevalent among Asian and African people than Europeans. In all these examples, race isn't merely a cosmetic choice of adjectives. It forms the core of their narratives.
I should note that these concepts don't all have oppression as a backdrop, except maybe in the case of "Cultural Contamination". The Sun Queen story, for instance, actually came about when I asked myself the question, "How would African people with an advanced and affluent civilization evaluate artificially straightened hair?" The lactose intolerance story is about a speculative attempt on Attila the Hun's life. I don't believe you need this world's oppressive hierarchies to consider how populations with different phenotypes might regard those differences.
To sum up my position, write what you want.
The problem, in my view, is you're thinking in terms of statistical distributions, whereas characters are individuals. As a statistical probability, maybe you can say men are more likely to do X, Y, or Z, but there are always outliers and exceptions, so the whole thing falls apart as applied to any given individual. I know women who would more likely react like average (statistically) males in any given situation, and men whose reactions are going to be closer to the statistical prediction for females.
Since your character is an individual and not a statistical representation of sex or gender norms across the whole of society (or, more specifically, western society), you don't gain much, and potentially lose a lot, if your starting point is "well, this is a women, how's is she going to react?" Whether male or female, your character's reactions are dictated by their individuality, not a statistical likelihood. That's the starting place, not some idea of how a person of a given sex should respond.
Let's revisit my counter example from earlier.
Something I've commented at before, and which Ankari also brings up, is that our experiences shape our personalities. How we are treated, and how we're used to being treated, shapes how we react.
The situation I describe above mentions almost nothing about that (except the arousal part, which is probably more an instinctive/primal reaction than a personality-based one). I can go a lot of different ways with my characters from there.
The woman in the example could be a sultry seductress in a little black dress, flaunting her attributes for the benefit of her male companion.
She could be a native from a culture where walking bare-legged is the natural state and she could be perplex by, or oblivious to, the man's reaction.
It's also possible she ended up garbed like that against her will and that she's feeling unsafe and awkward about her appearance in the company of a male.
Then there's the male's reactions:
Is he unashamedly drinking in the view as is he right to do as a man? After all, he's a healthy male with a healthy appetite for the good things in life.
Could it be he's upset and offended because the woman dares to tempt him and expose him to his darker desires? Does he feel she's leading him into damnation?
Perhaps he's embarrassed for starring and for making her feel awkward?
The above are some options I came up with on the top of my head. I'm sure there are plenty more I could think of if I put in more effort.
Any of the above options could work in combination with each other (more or less). Some combinations would resonate better with some readers than with others.
Some combinations I would approve of, others I wouldn't.
I think the important thing here is to stay true to the characters and show them reacting in ways that agree with how they've reacted in the past. The reactions have to be believable within the context of the story.
But, even then, they won't be believable to everyone. Some readers may not be able to identify with my MC at all, or relate to the woman in the scene. Perhaps my portrayal of the characters isn't good enough, or perhaps the story I'm writing just isn't for them.
What's this got to do with diversity then?
I think it's about taking a potentially loaded situation and describing it in a way that readers can relate to, regardless of gender (race isn't a factor in this context). I want the woman in the scene to react in a way that's believable even to female readers and I want the male to react as a male might plausibly do.
For reference, here's the relevant section of the scene. I haven't had it proofread by anyone yet and after having talked up my intentions like this, I'm no longer very confident that the end result lives up to them.
Something I've commented at before, and which Ankari also brings up, is that our experiences shape our personalities. How we are treated, and how we're used to being treated, shapes how we react.
The situation I describe above mentions almost nothing about that (except the arousal part, which is probably more an instinctive/primal reaction than a personality-based one). I can go a lot of different ways with my characters from there.
The woman in the example could be a sultry seductress in a little black dress, flaunting her attributes for the benefit of her male companion.
She could be a native from a culture where walking bare-legged is the natural state and she could be perplex by, or oblivious to, the man's reaction.
It's also possible she ended up garbed like that against her will and that she's feeling unsafe and awkward about her appearance in the company of a male.
Then there's the male's reactions:
Is he unashamedly drinking in the view as is he right to do as a man? After all, he's a healthy male with a healthy appetite for the good things in life.
Could it be he's upset and offended because the woman dares to tempt him and expose him to his darker desires? Does he feel she's leading him into damnation?
Perhaps he's embarrassed for starring and for making her feel awkward?
The above are some options I came up with on the top of my head. I'm sure there are plenty more I could think of if I put in more effort.
Any of the above options could work in combination with each other (more or less). Some combinations would resonate better with some readers than with others.
Some combinations I would approve of, others I wouldn't.
I think the important thing here is to stay true to the characters and show them reacting in ways that agree with how they've reacted in the past. The reactions have to be believable within the context of the story.
But, even then, they won't be believable to everyone. Some readers may not be able to identify with my MC at all, or relate to the woman in the scene. Perhaps my portrayal of the characters isn't good enough, or perhaps the story I'm writing just isn't for them.
What's this got to do with diversity then?
I think it's about taking a potentially loaded situation and describing it in a way that readers can relate to, regardless of gender (race isn't a factor in this context). I want the woman in the scene to react in a way that's believable even to female readers and I want the male to react as a male might plausibly do.
For reference, here's the relevant section of the scene. I haven't had it proofread by anyone yet and after having talked up my intentions like this, I'm no longer very confident that the end result lives up to them.
Note: Amanda changed into the sweater as her dress got completely soaked by rain.
Jamber
Sage
There's a moment in Terry Pratchett's Going Postal where schoolmarmish Miss Maccalariat bowls into Moist's office to ask: 'Do we "embrace divertingly"?' She means 'embrace diversity', but Pratchett gently lampoons both ideas.
Ultimately telling writers to embrace diversity is like asking a twenty-something male postmaster to embrace middle aged Miss Maccalariat. As a middle aged woman I can feel tickled by that idea. But I'm glad nobody told Pratchett he had to do it.
I truly think fiction is the one form where, if you want diversity, the answer is to write it yourself. (That's the entrepreneurial approach: what the mainstream overlooks becomes my niche.) But it's also achievable. Novels take little money to produce; anyone with flair can write them. Best of all, anyone with flair can become famous packaging diversity. Look at gender in 2312. Look at ethnicity in China Mieville.
What makes some novels get picked up and mass marketed via huge injections of advertising funds is a separate issue, and all wrapped up in hegemony (like the 'staff best pick' that convinced me to buy Gone Girl, which has among the most misogynistic of female representations in recent years). My view is, let's critique that.
Ultimately telling writers to embrace diversity is like asking a twenty-something male postmaster to embrace middle aged Miss Maccalariat. As a middle aged woman I can feel tickled by that idea. But I'm glad nobody told Pratchett he had to do it.
I truly think fiction is the one form where, if you want diversity, the answer is to write it yourself. (That's the entrepreneurial approach: what the mainstream overlooks becomes my niche.) But it's also achievable. Novels take little money to produce; anyone with flair can write them. Best of all, anyone with flair can become famous packaging diversity. Look at gender in 2312. Look at ethnicity in China Mieville.
What makes some novels get picked up and mass marketed via huge injections of advertising funds is a separate issue, and all wrapped up in hegemony (like the 'staff best pick' that convinced me to buy Gone Girl, which has among the most misogynistic of female representations in recent years). My view is, let's critique that.
Feo Takahari
Auror
Point of argument: who here even remembers that I'm biologically male? It's not like I make a big secret of it. People just think I'm female because apparently men don't write like this.
(Then again, I don't think I've ever written a truly masculine character, so maybe that actually supports your point. I'm still writing what I know.)
Edit: Come to think of it, you refer to "female authors" as if you're not one yourself. I can't claim much familiarity with your writing, but I haven't seen anything obviously gendered in your style--there's nothing about it that would make me say "This was written by a man!" or "This was written by a woman!"
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Trick
Auror
I think that the better a writer gets, the less they show though in their own writing and this includes gender as well.
I've read female authors and not had it enter my mind that it mattered whether the author was male or female from start to finish. I've also read female authors and thought, "this is simply not how men think." The problem with that is not that I become offended, not in the slightest; the problem is that I'm pulled out of the book and lose interest. And not everyone would have felt that way about it so the author's portrayal and my understanding/experience might simply not mesh.
On the flip side, I've read male authors and seen that their female characters were as stiff and flat as high quality cardboard. Boring!
Gender is just one of many factors that color a person's writing and reading. For some it may be a driving force and for others much less so. It still has to be counted as an affecting part of a person's overall personality.
I wonder.
I heard a well-respected author on NPR yesterday talking about how, in great literature, the author is always present. That tends to be my view as well. My favorite stories, whether in fantasy or literary fiction, are such that I could tell you who wrote it just by reading a bit of it, based solely on the author's "voice."
To me, writing that lacks a distinctive "voice" is generic, and while I read that stuff as well if it is well done, it is not my favorite.
Trick
Auror
I suppose a better way to say it is that the better a writer gets, the less their flaws show through. Their biases, failings and insufficiencies. An author's voice hopefully doesn't include poor characterization or just an obvious inability to represent characters different from themselves.
When Steerpike can't argue with an opinion, the opinion is promoted to "fact."Can't argue with that
@Svrtnsse, cute scene! Thanks for sharing! I loved the reaction of the girl as well as the POV guy.
So I went over what I'd written last night, and I decided to change something, just for the sake of adding a little bit of diversity into it. Not because it's needed or because it matters, but only and exclusively for the sake of "increasing diversity" (whatever that means).
Original sentence:
New version:
It's a really minor change, and it doesn't have any impact whatsoever on the story. Yet, I'm worried. Will this really small and insignificant change pull the reader out of the story and cause them to make a mental note of it, or will they just gloss it over like (I imagine) they'd have done if I'd kept the original version?
It's the kind of thing I'll have to remember to ask specifically about, because I doubt anyone would admit to stumbling on it.
Original sentence:
New version:
It's a really minor change, and it doesn't have any impact whatsoever on the story. Yet, I'm worried. Will this really small and insignificant change pull the reader out of the story and cause them to make a mental note of it, or will they just gloss it over like (I imagine) they'd have done if I'd kept the original version?
It's the kind of thing I'll have to remember to ask specifically about, because I doubt anyone would admit to stumbling on it.
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