Jarringly modern dialogue?

[Tom]

'Howst doth thou fareth?'"

That would actually be more like "How dost thou fareth?"

 

[Legendary Sidekick]

You're writing what would qualify as fantasy steampunk, right? If that's the case, I wouldn't find it jarring in the least. Your style, to me, seems to wed past and present, so modern-sounding dialogue isn't a big deal.

I'm assuming you're asking me, because… yeah. "Wed past and present" is pretty much what I do. Thanks for noticing!

 

[Tom]

I'm assuming you're asking me, because… yeah. "Wed past and present" is pretty much what I do. Thanks for noticing!

Actually, I was asking Gryphos...but you do the same thing, so I guess I could be asking both of you!

 

[Legendary Sidekick]

That would actually be more like "How dost thou fareth?"

I told you I suck at that!

 

[BWFoster78]

What's the setting for this story, and the tone? (Is it light, comedic, or intended for younger readers?) If it's a fairly serious fantasy in a historical-analogue setting... Honestly, I'd consider this to fall on the side of laziness. It's one thing to use words like this if they support the world you're in, if they feel natural and expected within the world, and it's another thing to use them because it's the first phrase that comes to mind. And as far as clarity of communication goes, er, "that's lame" and "play it cool" isn't really default language any more. Straight from a 90's Nickelodeon show. Yeah, a lot of readers might not notice or care. But some are also going to get fed up with the lack of believability.

Nimue,

Some heavy stuff happens as it is epic fantasy, but, overall, I strive for a light tone.

I think the phrase "it's the first phrase that comes to mind" isn't accurate. It's more like I've changed it several times, and I keep coming back to it. It just "feels" better.

What I figured out recently that has helped me a ton is:

My first book is not going to be as good as my tenth. Instead of letting great be the enemy of good, I'm going to really try to get a couple of things that I think are important right. Everything else, I'm only going to change if my editor tells me to.

 

[Reaver]

I needs must express my belief that modern dialogue in any type of fantasy setting doesn't pull me from the story at all (see how I did the transverse there?).

However, dialogue in which the characters don't use contractions often does. An even more egregious offense is made up contractions.

For example, instead of "Who are you?", the author writes "Who're you?"

I can't help but think that one character is calling another a whore. Maybe I'm alone in this train of thought.

 

[BWFoster78]

I needs must express my belief that modern dialogue in any type of fantasy setting doesn't pull me from the story at all (see how I did the transverse there?).

However, dialogue in which the characters don't use contractions often does. An even more egregious offense is made up contractions.

For example, instead of "Who are you?", the author writes "Who're you?"

I can't help but think that one character is calling another a whore. Maybe I'm alone in this train of thought.

I once tried to make a character sound more formal by not letting him use contractions. It came off as horribly stilted. Maybe a better writer than me can make that work, but, at this point, I can't.

LOL'd at the whore comment, though!

 

[Gryphos]

You're writing what would qualify as fantasy steampunk, right? If that's the case, I wouldn't find it jarring in the least. Your style, to me, seems to wed past and present, so modern-sounding dialogue isn't a big deal.

Yeah, pretty much. It's a fantasy setting with a 19th century aesthetic and certain steampunk elements, mainly airships ... because airships are sick.

Speaking of, while I am opting to use relatively modern dialogue, there is a limit. I'm not gonna have characters say, "Naw, that's peak" or "Don't do that, that's so bait" or "Ernest is a f*ckin sideman" (no particular reason I picked Ernest there, it just sounds like a sideman name). Well, actually I might have one character who talks like that, and humour could be had as the other characters are oblivious to what they're actually saying.

 

[Nimue]

Steampunk gives you a lot more leeway in terms of tone than a lot of these historical-epic fantasy books!

I definitely agree that you can go too far in the other direction. I can't get through a single Cecilia Dart-Thornton book for that reason. None of that dialogue sounds like people talking! And zero contractions for no reason other than the author thinking they shouldn't use contractions is so annoying. People have been verbally shortening words forever. Shortcut to medieval dialogue, that is not.

 

[Steerpike]

I think you can establish any tone you want, regardless of the sub-genre, approximate pseudo-historical time period, etc. You've just got to be good enough at it to make it work. Brust strikes a modern tone with his Vlad Taltos books, though the setting is basically an epic fantasy setting. He writers other books set in that same universe, but hundreds of years before, and changes the dialogue to make it sound a bit more old-fashion, so that the whole thing reads more like an Alexandre Dumas story. It works great.

The question isn't whether it is possible to do something, but whether you can pull it off. The title of this thread says "jarringly" modern dialogue. If it is jarring, then you haven't done a good job with it. You either fix it so that it is no longer jarring or try a different approach.

 

[BWFoster78]

Steerpike,

I think that "jarring" is, to an extent, in the eye of the beholder. Perhaps there are some so against the concept that they'll reject any modernism out of hand, so, for those people, any usage is "jarring."

That's their right, but I'm not sure an author should make decisions based on such extremes.

I have a ton of little issues that cause me to, pretty much, automatically reject a book.

 

[Steerpike]

Steerpike,

I think that "jarring" is, to an extent, in the eye of the beholder. Perhaps there are some so against the concept that they'll reject any modernism out of hand, so, for those people, any usage is "jarring."

That's their right, but I'm not sure an author should make decisions based on such extremes.

I have a ton of little issues that cause me to, pretty much, automatically reject a book.

Yes, I think that's right. I don't mind modern dialogue in fantasy, even epic fantasy, if done well and it fits in with the tone of the story. Same goes for archaic dialogue. That said, I tend not to get hung up on such things. If a writer knows her craft and does a good job, I'll read any story, in any genre, written in any POV, tense, etc. As a reader, I'm just not put off by variations in those things.

Some readers will certainly be put off by modern dialogue in a fantasy novel, but I agree with you than an author can't write to please narrow segments of the readership. The author has to remain true to his vision of the novel and move forward that way. It will result in the best product, and no matter which route you choose there are more than enough readers who will enjoy it.

 

[Nimue]

Yes, I'd agree with everything you've said, but with the caveat that oddly modern or jarring dialogue can be a sign that an author isn't good with their craft, and that's something readers will pick up on, even if they can't put their finger on it. If the writer is confident that the choice works with their style and setting, like Phil and BW are, then that's great. But if the writer isn't sure about it, or they're getting a lot of feedback against it, it's a good idea to examine that dialogue. I think this is a good discussion to have, and saying "it doesn't matter, anything can work" is oversimplifying things...

 

[Devor]

Yes, I'd agree with everything you've said, but with the caveat that oddly modern or jarring dialogue can be a sign that an author isn't good with their craft, and that's something readers will pick up on, even if they can't put their finger on it.

For me, I think there's a lot to this statement. The characters should feel like a product of their setting, and modern dialogue often comes with modern attitudes and creates a disconnect between the characters and their settings.

That disconnect is the thing to watch out for, and modern dialogue can be a red flag or a warning sign in that direction. Even though there are a large number of works for which it's appropriate.

That said, even for those who find it off-putting, it's part of the language and voice that you largely get over within a chapter or two of reading.

 

[BWFoster78]

The characters should feel like a product of their setting, and modern dialogue often comes with modern attitudes and creates a disconnect between the characters and their settings.

The absolute biggest influence on my concept of what epic fantasy should be is Jordan's WoT. I've always thought that the protagonists' attitudes in that work were largely modern and have incorporated such into my world.

 

[cupiscent]

I like to think that I give an author room to create a feel for the world, and a big part of that is how the characters talk. If it's a vibrant urban setting, then I don't mind vibrant urban speech tendencies, but it's still going to make me blink if one character calls another "homie". It's just so very much of our world. Similarly, I tend to get thrown when characters in a more historical setting say "OK", and definitely when any character outside of modern urban fantasy uses "hot" as a compliment. (Those are two examples I have experienced and that spring immediately to mind.)

Personally, I love creating world-based idiom. It's so much fun! Why would you deny yourself that little creative flourish as an author?

 

[SugoiMe]

Reaver, I think you would hate my novel because my MC's dialect of the common language and his own language don't use contractions.

 

[Reaver]

Reaver, I think you would hate my novel because my MC's dialect of the common language and his own language don't use contractions.

I guess I should clarify. It's the stories where some characters use contractions and others don't that bother me. Like Goodkind's Sword of Truth series. If all of your characters don't use contractions throughout its entirety and it's an engaging story then I'm sure I'd enjoy it.

 

[Russ]

The interesting thing about not using contractions is that it is one of the ways to tell if someone is ESL with no accent. People who learn English as a second or later language tend not to use contractions. Thus it sounds "foreign" to the native english speaker.

 

[BWFoster78]

I don't like using contractions.

Oh. Wait. Never mind.