A Question on Male Gaze

[KC Trae Becker]

Thanks for giving me a fun rabbit hole to chase down. I had never heard of male gaze before. In our house we refer to this perspective as fan boy service. We generally view it as a male weakness rather than accept the objectification of females. Anime is rife with it. We talk to our children about it when the anime warrants viewing despite this short coming, for example Full Metal Alchemist.

While researching, I read that the hair sweep was a classic non ogling example of male gaze. Your critiquer has probably had the concept drilled into him as a film student with the attempt to remove the prejudice way male film makers disregard the feelings of woman actors and viewers. He probably recognized the classic move (which I now recognize from Wild Style in the Lego Movie) and is trying to sensitize you to it.

I think the litmus test would be to put a boy child in the same scene and see if it would be off. If it seems off, then you might be using this classic move to present the girl's femininity. Not that I personally have a problem with that, she is after all a girl child, but you are entering a gray zone in using such an easily misconstrued gesture often used to sexualize females.

But you have to decide for yourself if in context it is innocent or not. And if this is the only example of male gaze your critiquer could be seeing.

As you describe this scene, it seems completely fine to me.

 

[Garren Jacobsen]

Thanks for giving me a fun rabbit hole to chase down. I had never heard of male gaze before. In our house we refer to this perspective as fan boy service. We generally view it as a male weakness rather than accept the objectification of females. Anime is rife with it. We talk to our children about it when the anime warrants viewing despite this short coming, for example Full Metal Alchemist.

While researching, I read that the hair sweep was a classic non ogling example of male gaze. Your critiquer has probably had the concept drilled into him as a film student with the attempt to remove the prejudice way male film makers disregard the feelings of woman actors and viewers. He probably recognized the classic move (which I now recognize from Wild Style in the Lego Movie) and is trying to sensitize you to it.

I think the litmus test would be to put a boy child in the same scene and see if it would be off. If it seems off, then you might be using this classic move to present the girl's femininity. Not that I personally have a problem with that, she is after all a girl child, but you are entering a gray zone in using such an easily misconstrued gesture often used to sexualize females.

But you have to decide for yourself if in context it is innocent or not. And if this is the only example of male gaze your critiquer could be seeing.

As you describe this scene, it seems completely fine to me.

It can't just be a boy though. It should be a boy with long hair. And let's be honest anyone with long hair will do the ear tuck. Your ears are natural long hair hooks.

 

[skip.knox]

Interesting thread. I had two questions: why did the author put this into the scene, and why did the critter label it as male gaze? The OP answered the first one--it's a practical gesture to clear her vision.

That leaves the other. We're all sitting around trying to decide if the description meets spec, but why did this trigger in the critiquer? What is s/he reacting to? Rather than deciding if the critter is right or wrong, it might be interesting to understand why s/he thought to make the comment in the first place. Then again, it might turn out to be tiresome and not at all interesting, but it'd be worth asking.

 

[Russ]

T
I think the litmus test would be to put a boy child in the same scene and see if it would be off. If it seems off, then you might be using this classic move to present the girl's femininity. Not that I personally have a problem with that, she is after all a girl child, but you are entering a gray zone in using such an easily misconstrued gesture often used to sexualize females.

What an odd litmus test. Do not young boys and young girls act differently?

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

What an odd litmus test. Do not young boys and young girls act differently?

I think KC meant that if you swapped genders, and the action did not change anything about the presentation, then it can't be considered an act of femininity from a male perspective.

We're all sitting around trying to decide if the description meets spec, but why did this trigger in the critiquer? What is s/he reacting to? Rather than deciding if the critter is right or wrong, it might be interesting to understand why s/he thought to make the comment in the first place. Then again, it might turn out to be tiresome and not at all interesting, but it'd be worth asking.

I'll ask him and get back to you on that.

 

[Caged Maiden]

We all have our trigger points. Some folks I think comment a little more toward the side of caution. if it were me commenting, I'd probably say something like, "This gesture is sort of categorized as a flirtatious movement by authors trying to avoid "male gaze" type issues. Just wanted you to be aware this innocent gesture might come off as a (blah blah, whatever I felt)." I think he did you a disservice by automatically calling the gesture anything that categorized it.

That being said, I had long hair for most of my life and used it as a sort of shield at times--even using it to sleep in class in high school. So...I feel pretty secure in saying there's nothing wrong with your portrayal and this is simply a case of a certain writer being very aware of a certain thing and he's being hyper-sensitive to it in this case, but now that you're aware of how it might potentially read as flirtatious, you can keep that in mind as you finish the story.

I think as a writer, we often aren't aware of what some readers might construe as gestures with a sexual undertone, and all I can say is that erring on the side of caution (especially with children and adult contact) is probably the best bet, but again, I don't think this came close to encroaching that line at all, especially if the girl is the POV character.

 

[Legendary Sidekick]

I think it's odd this is considered male gaze, since the character's action is based on your observation of your own daughter's action. I agree asking the critter why he thought this is a male gaze thing, but I'll be surprised if his answer will be convincing. Showing a feminine behavior is not necessarily through a male gaze.

I don't feel the litmus test–inserting a boy–would tell you anything, other than that the boy seems rather effeminate. I don't think it's male gaze to notice "little girls play with their hair." My seven-year-old slurps soup from her hair if the hair dips into the bowl by accident. Boys don't typically have hair that long.

You could argue length of hair is a societal thing that creates behaviors deemed masculine and feminine, I suppose, but I think from the writer's side, there are plenty of women who write female characters who toss their hair.

I know I have way too little info to be judgmental, but I feel like this guy is a filmmaker who wants "feminist cred" and is going overboard, making knee-jerk reactions to any feminine behavior even if showing the behavior doesn't actually objectify the female character.

 

[Devor]

Playing with your hair - for a guy or a girl - is a perfectly normal, natural thing to do. But I'll take the counter-position, kind of, for the moment.

It's also a sign of flirting. You'll find it on any typical list of signs someone is interested in you. When you're interested in someone you're talking to, you become aware of how you look, and you fix your hair so you look your best. It also serves to call attention to your face, which is something you want to do when you're interested in someone.

I'm not going to criticize you for using it by any means. But that's probably what you've made your reader think of.

 

[KC Trae Becker]

What an odd litmus test. Do not young boys and young girls act differently?

There are differing opinions. My husband would say, "No they don't." I, as an educator with a life time surrounded by kids, say, "Most do act differently, but not all."

T. Allen.Smith, thanks for explaining my confusing litmus test.

If there wasn't a noticeable difference in the scene, the use of the gesture is fine. If there was something off putting, then examine the scene further.

Writing a different ethnicity, race, gender, sexuality, etc. can be challenging. Perspective can be a subtle thing easily missed. Here's an example to illustrate the subtlety of Male Gaze. I recently had a critter question the youth of my MC. I told them I needed the MC vulnerable. The critter suggested I switch the gender to female, so that I could still have the vulnerability yet a more mature MC. I know he was trying to help and I tried not to bristle. When I related the story to my teenage daughter she did bristle.

The male equating of femininity with vulnerability can be demeaning. [Yet in total candor I'll admit my own hypocrisy of taking great comfort in it a few times when it has worked in my favor in a tough situation. Who wouldn't? Though I try never to further the misperception.]

This female experience is subtle and easy to miss. We need to watch our perspective when branching outside our own personal experience. As parents, grandparents, educators and care givers we sometimes try to box others into our own expectations based on our misperceptions. Examining our own perceptions is always helpful.

But I'll get off my soap box now.

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

First, thank you all for your thoughtful consideration & comments. They've been helpful.

I do understand how this action can be viewed as flirtatious, but in this context, I don't. However, it's occurred to me that it may be an issue of clarity.

This critique partner also pointed out he had a difficult time assessing age. My attempt was to show age by thoughts, actions, and through contrasting with an older female sibling, and not just come out and say she's eight. Perhaps I need to reconsider that tactic.

Still, this girl trapping her locks is a way to show shyness (hiding behind her hair) & also shows how she's unconcerned with appearance. Her sister is quite the opposite, while the POV could give a damn about her hair, even though that's what proper young ladies in her society should be concerned with.

His comment struck me so because, invariably, female critique partners love this character and her arc because she goes against the common grain of a majority of female characters in fantasy.

She isn't pretty. She understands there's more to her than the superficial. She's smart, but still a child. She has female mentors. She faces incredible obstacles that she confronts without a male "savior". She's special in a way not immediately evident. She's one of two major POVs. She is THE character with the most agency.

I've labored to include a character that almost anyone can identify with. So, I find it unusual that a male commenter (who's insights are typically fantastic) went against the grain of my female critique partners.

I'm going to write him today to dig a bit deeper.

 

[Russ]

There are differing opinions. My husband would say, "No they don't." I, as an educator with a life time surrounded by kids, say, "Most do act differently, but not all."

T. Allen.Smith, thanks for explaining my confusing litmus test.

If there wasn't a noticeable difference in the scene, the use of the gesture is fine. If there was something off putting, then examine the scene further.

Writing a different ethnicity, race, gender, sexuality, etc. can be challenging. Perspective can be a subtle thing easily missed. Here's an example to illustrate the subtlety of Male Gaze. I recently had a critter question the youth of my MC. I told them I needed the MC vulnerable. The critter suggested I switch the gender to female, so that I could still have the vulnerability yet a more mature MC. I know he was trying to help and I tried not to bristle. When I related the story to my teenage daughter she did bristle.

The male equating of femininity with vulnerability can be demeaning. [Yet in total candor I'll admit my own hypocrisy of taking great comfort in it a few times when it has worked in my favor in a tough situation. Who wouldn't? Though I try never to further the misperception.]

This female experience is subtle and easy to miss. We need to watch our perspective when branching outside our own personal experience. As parents, grandparents, educators and care givers we sometimes try to box others into our own expectations based on our misperceptions. Examining our own perceptions is always helpful.

But I'll get off my soap box now.

That was actually a very thoughtful post, no soap box involved.

A couple of my closest friends are neuropsychologists, and they tell me that the latest research says young male and female children act differently even before they can walk and talk.

 

[skip.knox]

It becomes even trickier when the female is an elf. Or dwarf. Or dragon. If it's an orc, is the overriding difference the race or the gender? Or the age? If I wanted a vulnerable orc, how would I choose characteristics? I think we also need to be careful not to extrapolate 21st century understandings of gender onto pre-modern societies, non-human societies, etc. It's exactly along those lines that speculative fiction cuts its diamonds.

 

[Kobun]

It can't just be a boy though. It should be a boy with long hair. And let's be honest anyone with long hair will do the ear tuck. Your ears are natural long hair hooks.

Super true story. When my hair was long I was doing it all the time. Another one that could be accused of the male gaze thing: The hair flip. I've known a bunch of guys with long hair who did it. It's become an easy short hand for women, but the fact is that sometimes your hair gets in your eyes and you habitually take care of it without even thinking about it. It may even be for some the equivalent of my habitual and unconscious adjusting of my glasses when I'm nervous or stressed.

 

[Mindfire]

I know I have way too little info to be judgmental, but I feel like this guy is a filmmaker who wants "feminist cred" and is going overboard, making knee-jerk reactions to any feminine behavior even if showing the behavior doesn't actually objectify the female character.

Yep. Definitely sounds like he was trying to meet his feminist points quota for the day.

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

Heard back from this critique partner. He has retracted his comment, but also stipulated he was not clear on the POV's age. I'll have to look into that. However, in this group, we only submit once every two months. The long period between submissions leads to a lot of forgotten details.

 

[stephenspower]

Me, I would suspect your male commentator just wants to make points with a female member of your group. The out-of-nowhere feminist critique is the hair tuck of certain high-brow men.

 

[Mindfire]

The out-of-nowhere feminist critique is the hair tuck of certain high-brow men.

Dead.

 

[brokethepoint]

First, thank you all for your thoughtful consideration & comments. They've been helpful.

Still, this girl trapping her locks is a way to show shyness (hiding behind her hair) & also shows how she's unconcerned with appearance. Her sister is quite the opposite, while the POV could give a damn about her hair, even though that's what proper young ladies in her society should be concerned with.

She isn't pretty. She understands there's more to her than the superficial. She's smart, but still a child. She has female mentors. She faces incredible obstacles that she confronts without a male "savior". She's special in a way not immediately evident. She's one of two major POVs. She is THE character with the most agency.

This right here is the important part, her trapping her locks has a lot of meaning that is shown by that simple action. The eyes are the window to the soul and she is hiding.

 

[Nagash]

I'm a man with long hair, and heck, I brush my hair behind my ears all the damn time. Seriously... I'm not sure it's a "girl thing" (whatever that means...) so much as a "I've got long hair in my face" thing.

My two cents.

 

[Legendary Sidekick]

a "I've got long hair in my face" thing.

…which means you have to male-gaze through your hair.



(Sorry.)