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All About Reviews (except getting them :) )

BWFoster78

Myth Weaver
(Disclaimer: the primary purpose of this thread is to organize my thoughts on the subject. Those thoughts are my best understanding at the moment and may change at any time. If you can point to something that I got wrong, that’s fantastic! It’s much better for me to find out now rather than later. These thoughts are, however, the result of much reading about the subject; hopefully, others can gain something from this post and its responses as well.)

Okay, well not all about reviews; I went into details on how to get reviews in this thread: http://mythicscribes.com/forums/marketing/15172-step-step-how-get-reviews.html

Two Big Review No-No’s:

1. Do not engage. No matter how much you disagree with a posted review, do not engage. No matter how “wrong” the facts of the review are, do not engage. No matter how unfair and/or unhelpful the review is, do not engage. Reviews are for readers, not authors, and every reviewer is entitled to his opinion. Period. In a public space like Amazon or Goodreads, you shouldn’t even comment to say something as innocuous as, “Thanks for the review.” If you’ve solicited a review by email, do not indicate you’ve even read the review unless the reviewer contacts you first. If you’re featured on a blog, ask the blogger if your comments are desired. If so, only post, “Thank you for your comments.” Be friendly, and perhaps self effacing, at all costs.

2. Do not buy reviews. It is not worth the wrath of the online community if your deception is found out nor is it worth the possibility of having your book removed from Amazon. There are better ways to get reviews. (Note: This advice applies to the practice of paying reviewers to leave comments. That practice is a violation of Amazon’s TOS. The only compensation you can offer a reviewer is a free copy of your book. This advice does not apply to paying a 3rd party for reviewer contact information or to be a middleman for offering free copies of your book to volunteer reviewers. Both those services are ethical practices. It’s also, apparently, okay to pay Kirkus a boatload of money for a review, though I don’t quite understand why as I haven’t really studied the matter.)

Now, the big question —

How Important Are Reviews?:

As far as either adding to sales or impeding them, short answer — no idea. Back in the day, an entrepreneurial self publisher created a ton of sock puppet reviews for his books and made a bunch of money. Ever since, it’s been accepted theory that reviews provide necessary “social proof” for customers. I simply don’t know how accurate that theory is. Regardless, the standard advice is for you to obtain reviews. When I launch a book, I try to do enough advance work so that I get six reviews or so right out of the gate.

As an author, I look at a bad review or a low rating and think, “That’s it. I’m sunk. No one is going to buy my book with that big, ugly, negative review sitting there.” In my case, my first reviews were fairly negative (3.6 average for the first 11) with a lot of harsh criticisms. My sales did not seem to suffer, though I can’t say for certain that I wouldn’t have received even more sales had the reviews been more positive. (Note: After making some changes to my manuscript, my rating is climbing.)

There is one way, however, in which reviews are absolutely proven to be a crucial component to your success — promo sites. A lot of these services use reviews as their way to determine quality. If your overall rating is under 3.5 to 4 (depending on the site), you can forget it, and 5 to 20 (again depending on the site) reviews are required.

More important to me than sales or promo sites was the feedback that the reviews offered. My goal is to entertain my reader. Reviews offer real feedback from real readers, and they pointed out an issue that, contrary to my intentions, was causing some readers to have serious enjoyment issues with my book. Had I not solicited so many reviews, I might not have understood the severity of the problem in time to correct it relatively early in the lifetime of my book. Once I’m more experienced as a writer, such feedback might not be nearly as important, but as a beginner, it is crucial.

Okay, onto a couple of miscellaneous items …

Review Ratings:

This is something that I didn’t know until very recently — there’s actually a difference between what ratings mean on Amazon versus Goodreads. While every reader uses their own subjective standards, it’s generally considered that Amazon ratings are higher than Goodreads, especially at the high end. Where a 5 on Goodreads means “one of the best books I’ve ever read in my life,” a five on Amazon is “I really liked it.”

I think that, in light of this, my early reviews on Amazon were probably too harsh as far as ratings go.

Should Authors Review Other Books?:

Amazon’s policy basically says that you can’t review something if you have a competing product for sale. A lot of authors have taken this to mean that they can’t review books in their genre without risking having their books being removed by Amazon. Some have even taken this policy to mean that they can’t review other books at all.

Though no one has ever accuses Amazon of clearly communicating their policies (or enforcing them consistently), most authors seem to agree that this provision exists mainly so that Amazon can eliminate abuses of the review system. If you are buying books and leaving thoughtful reviews, it’s unlikely that you’re going to encounter any problems. Worst case scenario is likely to be that Amazon simply deletes the review.

That being said, I can’t find fault with any author who thinks that it is not worth the risk.

Also, if you leave a bad review for another author, are you inviting a retaliatory bad review? Or if you leave a good review, is that person going to return the favor and make it look like you’re participating in a review exchange? I don’t exactly stay awake at night worrying about such, but again, I can’t fault any author who decides it’s simply not worth the risk.

More problematic to me is the question, “What is your purpose in leaving the review?” Since reviews are meant to help readers, it doesn’t seem ethical to leave reviews praising books that you didn’t like. On the other hand, I’m out to help fellow authors, not hurt them. Since 3 star reviews and lower are below what the promo sites will take, I don’t feel comfortable leaving a rating less than 4 stars.

Thus I’m left with my new review policy (Note: not trying to advocate a position of anyone else; merely working through my own thoughts :) ) —

If I come across a book I like, I’ll leave a 4 or 5 star review as appropriate. If someone asks me to review their book and I accept, I’ll not leave a review if I can’t rate it 3 stars or higher. I will, however, provide that author with private feedback on the reason for how I would have rated the book. I also will base my reviews more on my current understanding of what the ratings “should” indicate rather than my previous scale. inally, most of my old reviews tended to be more focused on “writerly” concerns. In the future, I’m going to endeavor to make my comments more in line with what readers are looking for.

Hope this helped. I’d love to know your thoughts.

Brian
 
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PaulineMRoss

Inkling
every reviewer is entitled to his opinion. Period.

I would put it even more strongly than that. Every reader's experience of the book is as valid as anyone else's. A book is more than a product. You can buy (say) a new phone, and rate it according to how well it meets your needs and expectations, but in the end it's just a thing. A book is (or should be!) an immersive experience. It takes the reader to some other time and place, alongside characters that only exist in their head. Readers bring their own baggage to a book, so their review of it is as much about them as it is about the book.

If you’ve solicited a review by email, do not indicate you’ve even read the review unless the reviewer contacts you first. If you’re featured on a blog, ask the blogger if your comments are desired. If so, only post, “Thank you for your comments.”

Here I would disagree slightly. If I've solicited the review, then if they DO review (because they don't always!) I will contact them privately (Goodreads PM or by email) to say thank you. Nothing else, just thank you for your time and trouble, and I'm glad you enjoyed the read (if they did). I think that's courteous. I've asked for a favour, and they've obliged.

It’s also, apparently, okay to pay Kirkus a boatload of money for a review, though I don’t quite understand why as I haven’t really studied the matter.)

Paid-for reviews can go in the Editorial reviews section of the book page. Some people feel these add weight. :) It's supposed to help get a Bookbub (but I'd can't verify that, having neither Kirkus nor Bookbub).

How Important Are Reviews?:
As far as either adding to sales or impeding them, short answer — no idea. Back in the day, an entrepreneurial self publisher created a ton of sock puppet reviews for his books and made a bunch of money. Ever since, it’s been accepted theory that reviews provide necessary “social proof” for customers. I simply don’t know how accurate that theory is. Regardless, the standard advice is for you to obtain reviews. When I launch a book, I try to do enough advance work so that I get six reviews or so right out of the gate.

I don't know the answer either, but in my experience good reviews don't seem to boost sales, and bad ones don't hinder them. However, the first few are critical. I got hit with an early 1* on my most recent book (entitled 'Epic fail' :) ). That could have been devastating, except that I already had 3 5* reviews from ARC readers.

Should Authors Review Other Books?:
Amazon’s policy basically says that you can’t review something if you have a competing product for sale. A lot of authors have taken this to mean that they can’t review books in their genre without risking having their books being removed by Amazon. Some have even taken this policy to mean that they can’t review other books at all.

There are two places where Amazon states its policies. One says explicitly that authors can review books if they want to, so long as they don't have a financial interest in the reviewed book (as publisher, editor, illustrator, etc) and don't have a close personal relationship with the author. Close relationship isn't specified, but the intent is fairly clear.

The competing product statement comes up in a more general summary of review policy, not aimed at authors in particular, and is under the section labelled 'Promotion'. In other words, you can't review a competing product *as a means to promote your own product*.

I continue to review every novel I read (although not always on Amazon), and will continue to do so unless and until Amazon makes it crystal clear that I can't.

My review policy is the same as it's always been: my reviews are honest, but I always explain why I liked/disliked a book, and if it wasn't my cup of tea, I try to point out who it might be better suited for. Having said that, I do find it more difficult to be honest if the author is someone I've bumped into online. I'm less snarky and more gentle, perhaps.

It isn't easy. I completely understand why people avoid the issue by not reviewing at all.
 

BWFoster78

Myth Weaver
Here I would disagree slightly. If I've solicited the review, then if they DO review (because they don't always!) I will contact them privately (Goodreads PM or by email) to say thank you. Nothing else, just thank you for your time and trouble, and I'm glad you enjoyed the read (if they did). I think that's courteous. I've asked for a favour, and they've obliged.

I can understand that viewpoint and don't disagree vehemently. The counter argument that caused me to take the approach I do is that some reviewers can feel uncomfortable at having the author acknowledge their review. Again, though, I think it's probably fine either way.

Paid-for reviews can go in the Editorial reviews section of the book page. Some people feel these add weight. It's supposed to help get a Bookbub (but I'd can't verify that, having neither Kirkus nor Bookbub).

I thought it was something like that :)

I don't know the answer either, but in my experience good reviews don't seem to boost sales, and bad ones don't hinder them. However, the first few are critical. I got hit with an early 1* on my most recent book (entitled 'Epic fail' ). That could have been devastating, except that I already had 3 5* reviews from ARC readers.

Yep. It seems like everyone says, "Gotta get reviews" but hard data on impact is really lacking.

It isn't easy. I completely understand why people avoid the issue by not reviewing at all.

Me, too! On the other hand, knowing how hard it is to get reviews tend to make me want to leave more reviews ...
 
I would put it even more strongly than that. Every reader's experience of the book is as valid as anyone else's.

While the reader's experience may be as valid as anyone else's—subjectivity is very important in the experience—I don't think I believe that every reader's written review is as valid as anyone else's.
 

BWFoster78

Myth Weaver
While the reader's experience may be as valid as anyone else's—subjectivity is very important in the experience—I don't think I believe that every reader's written review is as valid as anyone else's.

In terms of their right to leave whatever comments they want on their review, any readers' opinion is as valid as any other readers. You as the author or as a reader may certainly choose to weight that opinion however you want. The important point that Pauline and I are making is that any reader is entitled both to have and to express whatever opinion they want without reprisal.

EDIT: Whatever opinion that falls inside Amazon's TOS, anyway.
 
The important point that Pauline and I are making is that any reader is entitled both to have and to express whatever opinion they want without reprisal.

My view is that, in America at least, that's already covered by the U.S. Constitution, so out of my hands.

Any reviewer on Amazon can also leave a comment under another review stating, validly, "Your review is invalid!"–without reprisal, providing it falls within Amazon's TOS.

So when you have two people being angelically "valid" telling each other that they have left invalid opinions....well, so much for the meaning of validity.

Now, for practical reasons, I do agree authors should never engage their reviewers, positively or negatively. With the possible exception of published reviews from professional reviewers.
 

BWFoster78

Myth Weaver
So when you have two people being angelically "valid" telling each other that they have left invalid opinions....well, so much for the meaning of validity.

What part of this thread, though, is in any way directed at how reviewers interact with each other? I certainly intended a thread under the "Marketing" section of an author's website to be directed at advice on how authors should interact with reviewers. If your point is all about reviewer interactions with each other, I have no idea how your point relates to the thread?
 
I certainly intended a thread under the "Marketing" section of an author's website to be directed at advice on how authors should interact with reviewers.

Part of that interaction surely includes author interpretation of reviews. The part of the OP that led me to think this thread was at least somewhat related to author interpretation of reviews was this:

As an author, I look at a bad review or a low rating and think, “That’s it. I’m sunk. No one is going to buy my book with that big, ugly, negative review sitting there.”

More important to me than sales or promo sites was the feedback that the reviews offered. My goal is to entertain my reader. Reviews offer real feedback from real readers, and they pointed out an issue that, contrary to my intentions, was causing some readers to have serious enjoyment issues with my book. Had I not solicited so many reviews, I might not have understood the severity of the problem in time to correct it relatively early in the lifetime of my book. Once I’m more experienced as a writer, such feedback might not be nearly as important, but as a beginner, it is crucial.


The issue of validity was also raised in this thread, although I don't think you brought that word. You brought the idea of entitlement to opinions, however, which is related. I took issue with the wording and assertions about validity; this, I think, is in line with your introduction of author interpretation & use of reviews.

As for this,

What part of this thread, though, is in any way directed at how reviewers interact with each other?

I offer as answer this, from your OP:

Reviews are for readers, not authors, and every reviewer is entitled to his opinion. Period.

And if the whole discussion has something to do with sales and the effect of reviews on sales, then reader interaction most certainly can play a part. Additionally, the validity of reviews (as seen/interpreted by other readers) will play a part.

Unless you think this type of review plays no part in sales or the interest of potential readers:

S09t5sh.jpg

It's a 5-star review! But the only potential reader rating it said it wasn't helpful.
 

PaulineMRoss

Inkling
While the reader's experience may be as valid as anyone else's—subjectivity is very important in the experience—I don't think I believe that every reader's written review is as valid as anyone else's.

That's an interesting distinction to draw. The review is the distillation of the experience. I don't see how they can meaningfully be separated (in terms of validity, anyway). A review may be more or less helpful, critical, well-written, balanced... than any other, but I'd say that they're all equally valid.
 

Russ

Istar
Also, if you leave a bad review for another author, are you inviting a retaliatory bad review? Or if you leave a good review, is that person going to return the favor and make it look like you’re participating in a review exchange? I don’t exactly stay awake at night worrying about such, but again, I can’t fault any author who decides it’s simply not worth the risk.

So I am novice in the world of reading true indy books from people I don't know. I only started doing it after spending time at this site and now I am struggling with just this quandry.

I don't seek out free reads, I figure for the low price I might as well help someone out and buy the book.

I bought a weak book that was promoted on this site, read it, and decided to make no comment.

I have bought a few books promoted on this site I have enjoyed and reviewed them honestly and positively.

I recently bought another one (not from a very active poster at all) and have read about a third of it. It is a true stinker. I almost feel obligated to post a review to warn people to not waste their money on it. But I am concerned that the author will post a retalitory negative review when I get published. Their writing style is very juvenile, so I suspect their worldview might be as well.

It strikes me a tough call.
 

BWFoster78

Myth Weaver
I almost feel obligated to post a review to warn people to not waste their money on it.

I think that is a perfectly valid reason to review it. Though, to be honest, if it's that bad, it's not going to sell anyway. Amazon is littered with books that are written by people who don't understand craft. It seems to me that people quickly understand that and simply ignore them.

It strikes me a tough call.

It very much is.
 

BWFoster78

Myth Weaver
Part of that interaction surely includes author interpretation of reviews. The part of the OP that led me to think this thread was at least somewhat related to author interpretation of reviews was this:

To be completely, 100% crystal clear, my advice to authors regarding reviews is:

Accept that each reviewer is entitled to their opinion. Period.

If that review happens to provide valuable feedback to you, great! If not, it's none of your concern. It was provided voluntarily by someone who had a complete right to compose it. The review is not meant to help you. In fact, the reviewer has no obligation to make the review helpful to anyone at all. Period.

And if the whole discussion has something to do with sales and the effect of reviews on sales, then reader interaction most certainly can play a part. Additionally, the validity of reviews (as seen/interpreted by other readers) will play a part.

I literally have no idea what point, if any, you're trying to make.
 
To be completely, 100% crystal clear, my advice to authors regarding reviews is:

Accept that each reviewer is entitled to their opinion. Period.

I would reword this to say:

Accept that you, as author, have limited control over the reviews you will receive. Get used to it.

But all this bequeathing of validity–this bequeathing of entitlement–seems to go the wrong direction, strikes me as a little too self-important. Our claiming validity/entitlement on behalf of reviewers is patronizing. Worse, it is irrelevant; they'll keep on leaving the reviews they leave quite regardless of whether we've bequeathed to them that right or have slapped the title "Valid Comment" on whatever they write.

Besides which, I think that on various levels, in various ways, opinions can be considered invalid. I think this is self-evident. Do you think everything I've written in this thread is perfectly valid?
 

BWFoster78

Myth Weaver
But all this bequeathing of validity—this bequeathing of entitlement—seems to go the wrong direction, strikes me as a little too self-important. Our claiming validity/entitlement on behalf of reviewers is patronizing. Worse, it is irrelevant; they'll keep on leaving the reviews they leave quite regardless of whether we've bequeathed to them that right or have slapped the title "Valid Comment" on whatever they write.

Yes, but you have authors, including some big names ones, who take the view that any negative review is "abuse." This faction disputes that readers have the right to leave comments criticizing reviewers. There is quite a bit of backlash against this faction of authors. Thus why I felt the need to point out that my advice is to consider all reviewers to have the right to say whatever the crap they want about your work in their review.

Do you think everything I've written in this thread is perfectly valid?

Truthfully, I've found just about everything you've written in this thread to be completely irrelevant babbling about semantics.
 
Truthfully, I've found just about everything you've written in this thread to be completely irrelevant babbling about semantics.

Ah, but I suppose I am entitled to my opinion, even so.

The comment I made that started this long back-and-forth was rather simple and, I thought at the time, relatively uncontroversial, a separation between a person's experience of a book and his written review:

While the reader's experience may be as valid as anyone else's–subjectivity is very important in the experience–I don't think I believe that every reader's written review is as valid as anyone else's.​

I would think this is an important guideline for an independent writer such as yourself as you solicit those "honest reviews" that seem to populate the pages of new releases. Do you make any distinctions in the amateur reviewers you choose? Or does the absolute validity of every possible review – indeed, even "Book book" –negate the need to pick and choose?
 

BWFoster78

Myth Weaver
I don't think I believe that every reader's written review is as valid as anyone else's.

How so?

What makes "Book book" any less valid that another customer saying that they liked it or another customer saying that they hated it? All these reviews are valid within the terms of service.

I'll say it again in a different way, "We, as authors, have no right to expect anything from the reviewer, even coherency. All reviewer comments are valid expressions."

As a reader shopping for our next book, we absolutely have the right to say, "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot! That review wasn't helpful at all!?!"

The distinction is that in dealing with reviewers as the author of the piece in question. That's my advice, and I'm sticking to it.
 

MineOwnKing

Maester
How Important Are Reviews?

Sometimes I get excited about buying a book and then I make the mistake of reading the negative reviews and change my mind.

I'm not proud of it, but if I'm doing it then other consumers are too.

I think editorial reviews are the best to get.

I haven't tried Kirkus and I know it's expensive. If a writer feels confident in their novel it might be a great way to get some publicity.
 

skip.knox

toujours gai, archie
Moderator
Sort of following on with MineOwnKing, I think reviews are important based on my own behavior as a reader. When I am slogging through book categories on Amazon or elsewhere, and I see a book with only five or six reviews, I keep going. Simple as that. I need to see twenty or thirty reviews before I'll even start to look deeper. As for the actual rating, that's less important, unless of course thirty people all give it one star! Most books fall in the the same neighborhood. It's really the quantity of reviews that is the decision point.

Once a book has jumped that fence, then I will read the description. If I'm still interested, I'll read the free sample. If I'm still interested, I'm probably already hooked and I'll buy it.

I guess, to be completely honest, the very first fence is the cover. Title, not so much, though a bad one can ruin things, while a great one doesn't carry much weight.
 

BWFoster78

Myth Weaver
I'm really distrustful of anecdotal evidence of individual customer behavior. For example, I rarely even look at reviews of a book (before recently, anyway, when I started trying to learn more about what readers wanted). When I did look, I can't think of often when a review really swayed my opinion. The sample is really the end all/be all for me. If the author can't draw me into the story immediately, it's on to the next book.

I wish I could find any kind of good data on actual sales results.
 
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