Renaming hits a wall

[Tom]

I'm trying to get rid of all the English/Earth-origin names in the world for Southerner. That means countries with -ia suffixes get changed to something more culture-specific, people groups aren't suffixed with -ians or whatever, etc. Anyway, I've got one culture called the Barlanders. This was supposed to be a placeholder name until I thought of something better, but I've been using it so long I can't imagine calling them something else.

For the past few days I've been trying to think up a different name, but at this point I think it's a matter of getting it out of my own head. I need fresh eyes to look at it and ideas supplied by brains that haven't been trying to approach it from every which-way possible.

The name I want is consonant-heavy, with emphasis on Ks, Zs, and other harsh sounds. I'd also like the premix Viz in there if possible. Thanks, guys! I just really need a few ideas and hopefully I'll get past this.

 

[Saigonnus]

Kyrzohk! Both the place name and what you call people from there. Or maybe they go by Kyr.


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[ThinkerX]

Just go with it. Let it be an anachronism, something to be explored in a future work.

 

[Tom]

Thanks for the suggestion, Thinker, but I don't want to keep it. At all. As this is a totally self-contained world, with no connection to ours, the name "Barland" would be so jarring.

 

[AndrewLowe]

Parallel universe Tom!
The Barlanders all have yellow skin and hang around Moe's Tavern

In all seriousness, I tend to emulate the style of Gene Wolfe when naming places--everything is being translated into modern English for the reader, so name places can sound very odd. Yudraclyzu could very likely translate to Dog's Leg from Yudracylzine. So, instead of using the Yudraclyzine word, just use Dog's Leg. The world can be entirely disconnected from ours, which actually makes the use of very English sounding names even more practical.

Or, if you're looking for a country name, you could just use Yudraclyzu or some other random mashed string of letters. I think that it's better to use something else however.

 

[skip.knox]

What other sorts of names do you have? That might help us; otherwise, we're sort of throwing darts in the dark. *ow*

 

[Nimue]

I'd agree that it'd be good to know the kind of names that you have for that culture so far--character names, place names--and what, if any, real-world cultural roots it has.

Unfortunately I kind of don't like consonant heavy names or z's in fantasy names much, but I'll give it a go:

Viksander, Vizkanser
Karskeen
Vilskarren
Virzkor
Tarkazzi
Vor Garzten
Kirisktar

??

 

[Tom]

Hey, sorry I haven't replied in a while! Skip and Nim, you're absolutely right. Here are a few words in the language I have already:

Vizarok
Vazhal
Munhal
Etthal
Miekkhal
Ashiel
Hrishnac
Daikello

 

[FifthView]

Kevvizh

Skevviz

Vekkivish

 

[Gryphos]

Barvak
Laznhal
Vieknae
Landzkun
Pekdehall

 

[skip.knox]

I see four of the names end with -hal. Is that a synonym for "land"? Just guessing. I ask because you want a name to describe a people. There are grammatical rules (not so much rules as guidelines) for this in English. People from Barland more or less naturally become Barlanders. So, when making up the new, better name, you will want to think of both forms, at least. One might also refer to someone as speaking Barlandish, or dressing in a Barlandic style.

You could simply employ the same conventions, or invent new ones. Either way, that will affect the choice of the root word. If, if we take Daikello (to choose one from your list), that would present certain problems. Are they Daikelloers? Daikelloites? Or do we drop the -o and they become Daikellers? The ending vowel, especially coming off a soft consonant, creates challenges in a way that Vazhal does not.

This can bite you in unexpected ways. For example, Vizarok looks like a perfectly serviceable name (again, I have no idea if these are individual people or place names or what; doesn't matter for purposes of illustration). But look what happens when we add the -ers: Vizarokers. They become a bad cover band.

I realize I've probably just made things more complicated. If so, my job here is done.

 

[Velka]

Anyway, I've got one culture called the Barlanders. This was supposed to be a placeholder name until I thought of something better, but I've been using it so long I can't imagine calling them something else.

That is a problem I've had in the past; using a placeholder name so long that you can't imagine a new one. One piece of advice that I read from David Gaider (past lead writer for Dragon Age series, amongst other Bioware games) is if you're going to use a placeholder, make it something that is so ridiculous that you won't ever dream of keeping it.

It's really helped me not fall into the renaming trap. I've since named cities 'Sweaty Ball Town' and religions 'Chicken Eaters' as place holders. It's a lot easier to work my way out of those names

Interesting Dragon Age tidbit: The world Thedas is actually an acronym for The Dragon Age Setting. They used 'The DAS' in their early workshopping/planning stage and ended up keeping it.

 

[Tom]

I see four of the names end with -hal. Is that a synonym for "land"? Just guessing. I ask because you want a name to describe a people. There are grammatical rules (not so much rules as guidelines) for this in English. People from Barland more or less naturally become Barlanders. So, when making up the new, better name, you will want to think of both forms, at least. One might also refer to someone as speaking Barlandish, or dressing in a Barlandic style.

You could simply employ the same conventions, or invent new ones. Either way, that will affect the choice of the root word. If, if we take Daikello (to choose one from your list), that would present certain problems. Are they Daikelloers? Daikelloites? Or do we drop the -o and they become Daikellers? The ending vowel, especially coming off a soft consonant, creates challenges in a way that Vazhal does not.

This can bite you in unexpected ways. For example, Vizarok looks like a perfectly serviceable name (again, I have no idea if these are individual people or place names or what; doesn't matter for purposes of illustration). But look what happens when we add the -ers: Vizarokers. They become a bad cover band.

I realize I've probably just made things more complicated. If so, my job here is done.

Haha, that's okay!

Most of the words I listed are personal/object names (Vizarok is their god, and Daikello are traditional tattoos). Vazhal, Munhal, and Etthal are the three realms in their mythology--city of gods, earth, and the spirit world, respectively.

As for the forms of the place names, I already kind of have that figured out. For one culture, the Yianlai/Kirithi, the word doesn't change. If someone belongs to the two cultures they are Yianlai/Kirithi, and they speak Yianlai/Kirithi or wear Yianlai/Kirithi clothing. Obviously for the Barlanders I'll have to come up with different forms, but that's not too much of a problem.

(Although having a culture called the Vizarokers would be fun. Sounds like something out of Mad Max.)

That is a problem I've had in the past; using a placeholder name so long that you can't imagine a new one. One piece of advice that I read from David Gaider (past lead writer for Dragon Age series, amongst other Bioware games) is if you're going to use a placeholder, make it something that is so ridiculous that you won't ever dream of keeping it.

It's really helped me not fall into the renaming trap. I've since named cities 'Sweaty Ball Town' and religions 'Chicken Eaters' as place holders. It's a lot easier to work my way out of those names

Interesting Dragon Age tidbit: The world Thedas is actually an acronym for The Dragon Age Setting. They used 'The DAS' in their early workshopping/planning stage and ended up keeping it.

I love this system. Thank you so much. I will now use the most ridiculous placeholders ever.

That's a cool tidbit about Dragon Age. I've often wondered exactly what Thedas means, thinking it was something profound or at least tied into the world's mythology. But, as writing often goes, that isn't the case, lol. On a similar note, one of my city names is an anagram of the word "suck@$$". I was feeling particularly down on myself as a writer and decided to find a way to remind myself of my true ability whenever I wrote about that city.

 

[Tom]

So the Barlanders finally have a real name! Saigonnus' choice, Kyrzohk, really appealed to me, so I tweaked it a bit and got Vazkyrohk. (I wanted the -vaz thing in there somewhere.) The name means "fallen gods", and I love the way it looks and sounds so much. I am so glad I can stop calling them Barlanders.