grammar (help please)

[eternaldream24]

I need some help with my grammar. My biggest issue is probably with commas. When do you use them? I remember a few rules like you should put a comma before and or but.... I like winter, but not snow. Also, if recall correctly if you begin a sentence with also, however, therefore...that gets a comma. If you list a group of items that gets commas as well. Are there any other situations that call for commas. Is there some kind of trick to knowing if I am using the right amount, not too many or too little?

What about the semi colon? When do you use that instead of a comma?

I hope I don't sound like a total idiot asking these questions.

 

[sashamerideth]

You can use a comma when listing items, joining independent clauses and inside a dialog tag instead of a period. Look up, in Google, the Oxford comma and the Shatner comma as well. I have also found out that British and American comma usage differs.

I don't like beginning a sentence with a conjunction, it's a pet peeve.

As for the semicolon, it can be used in place of a comma when listed items have a comma themselves. I tend to shy away from the semicolon; I rarely have use for it in my writing.

I don't know if every single one of my above punctuation examples are correct but I expect to be corrected by others.

 

[Ziggy]

I know this is obvious, but you use a comma when you want a short pause in a sentence. If you read your work aloud it's quite easy to identify where you need comma's.

I wouldn't worry too much about it, but you can always just google for the 'rules'.

And there is nothing wrong with using a conjuncture at the beginning of a sentence.

 

[Xanados]

Use a comma when you need to pause. This is the main use.
Use a comma before the co-ordinating conjuctions FANBOYS (For, And, Nor, But, Or, Yet, So).
Use a comma when you are connecting an dependant (subordinate clause) with an independant clause. (If if I wanted to talk to him, I'd use a phone.)
Use a comma to avoid ambiguity in lists.

There are many uses.
I'm still actually learning the finer points of grammar myself, so I'd appreciate if anyone could tell me if I have said anything incorrect. This is just from memory.

 

[sashamerideth]

"Welcome to the Eel Cafe. For your dining pleasure we have the eel special; roasted eel, beans and fries; or our lovely satay eel, rice and deep fried squid," Sashamerideth said, bowing to the guests. She knew she could have phrased it better, but wanted to use semicolons in a list; a contrived and distasteful list (Unless you like eel), but a list all the same.

On the menu it would have been
1. Eel Special
2. Roasted eel, beans and fries
3. satay eel, rice and deep fried squid

 

[Butterfly]

I'd recommend a book - Collins Good Writing Guide by Graham King - for grammar issues. I've got the 2003 edition, so it's probably been updated since then, and is a bit hefty at 824 pages. It gives eleven uses for commas:-

Setting apart names and persons

Itemising words

Itemising word groups

Enclosing additional thoughts or qualifications

Setting apart interjections

Before direct speech

Introducing questions

Emphasising points of view

Setting off comparative or contrasting statements

Reinforcing statements

After introductory words

It gives examples of each, though I am not sure how much I am allowed to quote from it.

On the pause issue though it says - "A lot of trouble with commas arises because many people seem to think of them as indicating 'breath pauses'. That may have been the case when the language was more orally inclined, and in much early prose it is common to find commas following speech patterns. Today, however, the placement of commas invariably follows grammatical logic rather than indicating rhetorical pauses."

It's a useful book, though I haven't read it all, I just use it as a reference when I am uncertain about something. It covers everything about grammar.

 

[JazzTD]

I find that the oatmeal has a simple way to explain these kinds of questions, so it may benefit you to pay the link below a visit. c:

The Answer

 

[eternaldream24]

Is it okay to start a sentence with any conjunction, or just certain one's? I always thought it was taboo to begin a sentence with and, but, or, or, because. Did I write that correctly? Ha

Also, I want to ask about dialog. What is the proper way to do it? Right now, the way I have it in my book is like this:


" I love you."
Jim smiles.
"I love you too."

That wasn't really a line from my story, but do you see how I separate it into different lines? Some people have told me not to do that, just to include it all in one paragraph. What is the correct way?

 

[Benjamin Clayborne]

Many people say not to do it; it's one of those rules that exists because people do it too much or badly. But in general there's no reason to ban it; you just want to be careful of overusing it. Or using it as an excuse to create extremely long sentences and then pretend to break them up by putting in a period and capitalizing the "and" or "but" in the next sentence. And I personally think that as long as your writing flows, most people won't even notice when it happens.

 

[Legendary Sidekick]

Then that paragraph, didn't flow.

^Example of how NOT to use a comma for a pause.


Now, I'll actually help. First, a comma can be used after a sequential word such as "now" or "first."

You can use a comma before a conjunction, but you usually do that if the conjunction is followed by an independent clause.

This sentence doesn't have a comma before the conjunction because the conjunction is "because."

Because this sentence starts with "because," there is a comma between the independent clauses.

This sentence contains a dependent clause and doesn't need a comma.

The semicolon is like a comma plus a conjunction; it must be followed by an independent clause.

There are other uses of commas; however, I won't get into that now.

 

[sam Cooper]

You'll get all sides of an answer when it comes to commas. Some like them, some don't. When a writer questions their comma usage, it normally becomes excessive in their attempts to find that balance.

Don't worry too much. Keep writing. They will settle in your writing.

It is hard to just say - Do this! - Do that! - because it is not just the commas but the words/phrasing around them which effects their usage.

That all said, there are rules. Dialogue has a few.

 

[Ravana]

As others have mentioned, commas are no longer used to indicate pauses. The reason this probably remains a confusion is that, in general, you should pause when you reach a comma while speaking; the converse, however, is not true. It is entirely within the realm of possibility for one to compose sentences within the bounds of which neither commas nor any other form of punctuation can be appropriately placed that are nevertheless of such fantastic length and intricacy one would be all but incapable of successfully accomplishing their utterance with a single breath.

(A single unprepared breath, at least. If that one doesn't work for you, I can always try harder. )

Which does not mean you should write such sentences, if for no other reason than that you're probably going to lose your reader somewhere around the third dependent clause. Atrocities such as the above ought properly to be rephrased. Adding commas where you think you ought to be pausing, though, merely makes it ungrammatical.

 

[Graham Irwin]

I wrote for years without properly understanding the semicolon; it was only after I started dating a PHD student that I understood how they worked!

Also, as I went to school for theater, I was very used to pausing at a comma, and so that is I how I used them in writing.

It all doesn't matter, though, does it? Soon it will all be 140 characters, right? 2 B or nawt 2 B?

 

[sashamerideth]

I wrote for years without properly understand the semicolon; it was only after I started dating a PHD student that I understood how they worked!

Also, as I went to school for theater, I was very used to pausing at a comma, and so that is I how I used them in writing.

It all doesn't matter, though, does it? Soon it will all be 140 characters, right? 2 B or nawt 2 B?

I was hoping for 140 characters of obfuscated perl at least.

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