Viking/Norse/Danish Accents?

[Devor]

So, I know that someone is going to tell me not to bother, but I'm writing about Vikings and I need to do something to keep their dialogue from sounding too "modern."

What I'm most looking for is a linguistics essay on speech patterns for one or more of the Scandinavian countries, with an emphasis on accents in English. I'm not out to mimic a perfect accent or fill the dialogue with dropped letters and funny spellings (although I was thinking I might use such a thick accent for characters who are drunk). I just want to know a little bit about how they speak, phrases that are common, easy ways to make the language a little harsher and distinct, and especially ways that I can use speech patterns to differentiate one nation of Vikings from another. So an essay comparing Swedish accents to Danish to Norwegian to Icelandic would be incredible.

Google gave me nothing but cheesy youtube videos, and I've looked several times. I figure I need a more mythical resource.

 

[Jabrosky]

If you can grab a hold of Beowulf, that might help, as the characters are Norse and the poem's original language is related to Old Norse.

I have characters from a Norse-style culture in my WIP, but since the work is technically fantasy, I'm not aiming for complete authenticity with regards to my dialogue.

 

[Ravana]

Too late tonight to give a considered answer: I'll get to it tomorrow.

For now, I'll just toss in one (essentially irrelevant) anecdote–something I never tire of mentioning, especially to Americans: when Norway had the Winter Olympics most recently, it took nearly the entire two weeks for the broadcast crew to turn up a native who didn't speak English… clearly and fluently; most didn't even have accents. (Not even British ones.)

Nothing to do with what you're doing: just… interesting. Gods, but we ought to be embarrassed at the state of our language education.…

 

[Devor]

Too late tonight to give a considered answer: I'll get to it tomorrow.

It'd be a big help, if only to help me get inside their voice a little better.

Also as I started to mention, I have different groups of Vikings which were once a single country but were separated and isolated hundreds of years ago, so I need to find some way to distinguish between their speaking patterns even though they would be speaking the same language. Since the Danes and the Norwegians and the Swedes have separate languages (or dialects, by some standards) but can understand each other pretty well, that seems like it should be a pretty good basis for comparison.

 

[Havok]

Im swedish so if u need helt, feel free to pm me

 

[Devor]

Really, if anyone has any information on scandinavian accents - maybe another story which used a believable, fluent accent? - it would be a tremendous help.

Im swedish so if u need helt, feel free to pm me

What kind of sayings are common, and are there "mistakes" that people make a lot when they speak in English?

 

[Reaver]

Really, if anyone has any information on scandinavian accents - maybe another story which used a believable, fluent accent? - it would be a tremendous help.

Try this bit from the opening credits of "Monty Python and the Holy Grail":
"A møøse ønce bit my sister...Nø realli! She was karving her initials on the møøse with the sharpened end of an interspace tøøthbrush given her by Svenge—her brother-in-law—an Oslo dentist and star of many Norwegian møvies: “The Høt Hands øf an Oslo Dentist”, “Fillings of Passion”, “The Huge Mølars of Horst Nordfink”
...Mynd you, møøse bites Kan be pretti nasti..."

Hope this helps.

 

[mythique890]

Are you from the US? I don't know how helpful this will be, but do you know the accent that people have in Minnesota (you know, Minnesooohta)? It's because most of their ancestors came from Scandinavian countries, and the way they talk today still reflects the pronunciation of Scandinavian languages, which I think is pretty cool.

 

[Devor]

Are you from the US? I don't know how helpful this will be, but do you know the accent that people have in Minnesota (you know, Minnesooohta)? It's because most of their ancestors came from Scandinavian countries, and the way they talk today still reflects the pronunciation of Scandinavian languages, which I think is pretty cool.

That might be a little useful, thanks.

 

[BrionHumphrey]

There are some great renditions of excerpts from Beowulf in Anglo-Saxon (the language of the original manuscript written about 300-500 years after the main thrust of the viking expansion, if I recall accurately) on youtube. Also of the Lord's Prayer. They are often performed by scholars who devote a massive amount of time to getting the pronunciation right.

The funny thing is that they all criticize each other about how horrible pronunciation of the vowels are...but it might help to listen to these. It may not give you anything exact, but it might give you a jumping off place. Here's a link to one that I use in my classroom when we study the progression of the English language.

Reading of Opening Lines of Beowulf in Anglo-Saxon

 

[Xanados]

The languages of the North I adore.

 

[Devor]

There are some great renditions of excerpts from Beowulf in Anglo-Saxon (the language of the original manuscript written about 300-500 years after the main thrust of the viking expansion, if I recall accurately) on youtube. Also of the Lord's Prayer. They are often performed by scholars who devote a massive amount of time to getting the pronunciation right.

The funny thing is that they all criticize each other about how horrible pronunciation of the vowels are...but it might help to listen to these. It may not give you anything exact, but it might give you a jumping off place. Here's a link to one that I use in my classroom when we study the progression of the English language.

Reading of Opening Lines of Beowulf in Anglo-Saxon

Thanks, just about anything is helpful right now, and this is kind of cool.

 

[Anders Ämting]

So, I know that someone is going to tell me not to bother, but I'm writing about Vikings and I need to do something to keep their dialogue from sounding too "modern."

What I'm most looking for is a linguistics essay on speech patterns for one or more of the Scandinavian countries, with an emphasis on accents in English. I'm not out to mimic a perfect accent or fill the dialogue with dropped letters and funny spellings (although I was thinking I might use such a thick accent for characters who are drunk). I just want to know a little bit about how they speak, phrases that are common, easy ways to make the language a little harsher and distinct, and especially ways that I can use speech patterns to differentiate one nation of Vikings from another. So an essay comparing Swedish accents to Danish to Norwegian to Icelandic would be incredible.

Google gave me nothing but cheesy youtube videos, and I've looked several times. I figure I need a more mythical resource.

Well, these viking guys, are they actually talking broken English with actual English-speakers, or are they talking to each other in their own language, which you write as English?

I ask because Scandinavian dialect and accents A) tend not to sound very impressive and B) are really hard to put in writing.

If you meant the former and are just wondering how a viking would talk in general, my impression is that the vikings were a curt, pragmatic, down-to-earth common-sense kind of people. They did appreciate poets, and a person who could express himself in poetic ways or even improvise verses would make himself popular, but even then they weren't much for long speaches - they would rather be to the point and preferably witty. If you look at something like Havamal, even the teachings of Odin are fairly short and simple lessons like "If you travel on your own, being smart is better then being rich" or "If you are at a feast and end up drinking so much you can't remember it afterwards, you probably drank too much."

They also tended to have a dry, sarcastic sense of humour. There is this one scene in one of the Icelandic sagas -I think it's Egil Skallagrim- where there's this bunch of vikings who get together to attack the protagonist in his home. Only, he finds out about it and stands guard on the roof when they show up. Since they're not sure if he's even home, one of them climbs a ladder to check, and is emidiately struck down by his hewing spear.

As the viking is laying there on the ground, bleeding, one of his companions ask: "Is he home?" and he replies: "I'm not sure, but his spear is definitely home."

Finally, they had something called kennings. A kenning is basically a figure of speach where you poetically liken something or someone to something else. For example: "Sea steed" is a kenning for ship, and "whale road" is a kenning for the sea. "Feeder of ravens" or "feeder of eagles" refers to a warrior (because ravens and eagles would eat dead men) and so on.

Too late tonight to give a considered answer: I'll get to it tomorrow.

For now, I'll just toss in one (essentially irrelevant) anecdote—something I never tire of mentioning, especially to Americans: when Norway had the Winter Olympics most recently, it took nearly the entire two weeks for the broadcast crew to turn up a native who didn't speak English… clearly and fluently; most didn't even have accents. (Not even British ones.)

Nothing to do with what you're doing: just… interesting. Gods, but we ought to be embarrassed at the state of our language education.…

You know, sometimes I worry that I may speak English better then I speak Swedish.

 

[Fnord]

You could always play Skyrim for inspiration.

But seriously, I think you might have a better time if you change up the sentence structure or use of terminology and sayings. Trying to approximate the speech in text form will be frustrating for both you AND the reader, ultimately. I love the sound of a thick Scottish accent, but I had to give the "Address to a Haggis" for a Robert Burns Supper and it's nigh to indecipherable. But finding something like that in a Norse version and peppering the "English" with the vocabulary and phrasing should get the point across a lot stronger without muddling the dialogue with lots of weird spellings.

As an example consider "kennings", a sort of interesting turn of phrase from Old Norse using compound words for more common things:

Sword = "wound-hoe"
Longship = "sea-steed"
Arrows = "wound-bees"
Battle = "the game of iron"
Beer = "pool of malt"
Blood = "arrow-dew, milk of corpses, river of swords"
Sea = "belt of the earth, plain of seals"
Warrior = "wolf-feeder"
Winter = "death of snakes"

and so on. . . . I think integrating these sorts of things could add a lot of the flavor to the dialogue.

 

[Drakhov]

I love the sound of a thick Scottish accent, but I had to give the "Address to a Haggis" for a Robert Burns Supper and it's nigh to indecipherable. But finding something like that in a Norse version and peppering the "English" with the vocabulary and phrasing should get the point across a lot stronger without muddling the dialogue with lots of weird spellings.

At the risk of running afoul of Ravana's rules on Off Topic replies (please don't get out the ban-hammer!) I couldn't help posting this

Address To A Haggis
Fair fa' your honest, sonsie face,
Great chieftain o' the puddin-race!
Aboon them a' ye tak your place,
Painch, tripe, or thairm:
Weel are ye wordy o' a grace
As lang's my arm.

The groaning trencher there ye fill,
Your hurdies like a distant hill,
Your pin wad help to mend a mill
In time o' need,
While thro' your pores the dews distil
Like amber bead.

His knife see rustic Labour dight,
An' cut you up wi' ready sleight,
Trenching your gushing entrails bright,
Like ony ditch;
And then, O what a glorious sight,
Warm-reekin, rich!

Then, horn for horn,
they stretch an' strive:
Deil tak the hindmost! on they drive,
Till a' their weel-swall'd kytes belyve,
Are bent lyke drums;
Then auld Guidman, maist like to rive,
"Bethankit!" 'hums.

Is there that owre his French ragout
Or olio that wad staw a sow,
Or fricassee wad mak her spew
Wi' perfect sconner,
Looks down wi' sneering, scornfu' view
On sic a dinner?

Poor devil! see him ower his trash,
As feckless as a wither'd rash,
His spindle shank, a guid whip-lash,
His nieve a nit;
Thro' bloody flood or field to dash,
O how unfit!

But mark the Rustic, haggis fed,
The trembling earth resounds his tread.
Clap in his walie nieve a blade,
He'll mak it whissle;
An' legs an' arms, an' heads will sned,
Like taps o' thrissle.

Ye Pow'rs wha mak mankind your care,
And dish them out their bill o' fare,
Auld Scotland wants nae skinking ware
That jaups in luggies;
But, if ye wish her gratefu' prayer,
Gie her a haggis!

Transcript found here - it also has the 'English' translation, but sadly not the German (see below).

Further risking Ravana's ire, there is an anecdotal reference to the line 'Great Chieftan o' the puddin' race' - it is kind of On Topic though (both in response to Fnord and to the original post).

Seems the speaker was asked to give the address to a Burns Night supper in Germany, so it was translated from the 'Scot's' into German, then to English - the line became 'Mighty Fuhrer of the Sausage People'

I'll have to find the original source of the anecdote - it's on youtube somewhere - I'm thinking of proposing this particular source of all things Quite Interesting (a clue for you there) for Ravana's Website Sources thread.

Edit: Link here

 

[Fnord]

haha, that's the one! Trying to memorize that and then RECITE it while having a liver that was already pickled with scotch whisky was certainly a trial by fire.

But it does make the point I was talking about: reading that is confusing even if it's "technically" in English (though heavy on dialect). I wouldn't want to write a book that tried to mimic Ozzy Osbourne's dialogue either. I think flavor is important, and can be attained. Working toward the accent will probably be frustrating. Luckily, there are lots of little resources like kennings and sayings that can help give the flavor without the messy aftertaste.

 

[Ravana]

At the risk of running afoul of Ravana's rules on Off Topic replies (please don't get out the ban-hammer!) I couldn't help posting this

Meh… just "straying." Plus fits the "humor" qualifier. No ban.

-

One of the best things to look at to get a "feel" for how Scandinavian languages would blend with English is to look at when they were transitioning to English: Beowulf. From Project Gutenberg:

Hwät! we Gâr-Dena in geâr-dagum
þeód-cyninga þrym gefrunon,
hû þâ äðelingas ellen fremedon.
Oft Scyld Scêfing sceaðena þreátum,
monegum mægðum meodo-setla ofteáh.
Egsode eorl, syððan ærest wearð
feá-sceaft funden: he þäs frôfre gebâd,
weôx under wolcnum, weorð-myndum ðâh,
ôð þät him æghwylc þâra ymb-sittendra
ofer hron-râde hýran scolde,
gomban gyldan: þät wäs gôd cyning!
þäm eafera wäs äfter cenned
geong in geardum, þone god sende
folce tô frôfre; fyren-þearfe ongeat,
þät hie ær drugon aldor-leáse
lange hwîle. Him þäs lîf-freá,
wuldres wealdend, worold-âre forgeaf;
Beówulf wäs breme (blæd wîde sprang),
Scyldes eafera Scede-landum in.

Beowulf

(Translations are also available there.)

This might be fruitful as well–a site discussing the "Geordie" dialect of northern England (among other things about the region), which, it asserts, retains more Anglo-Saxon features than most other English dialects:

Geordie Dictionary

The "dictionary" is relatively small, but still indicative of what might happen with an accent. The whole site seems pretty interesting, and well-written, from a historical as well as linguistic perspective.

Finally, if you really want the hardcore stuff ("a linguistics essay on speech patterns for one or more of the Scandinavian countries"), this site has several such:

Scandiasyn - Heim

It might prove a bit difficult to read. On the other hand, it might not–and if it doesn't, that alone could provide answers to your questions.

-

Somewhat simpler, if limited in scope:

Swenglish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not the best-sourced article there, but it does at least directly address your question, and gives hints of the directions you should follow: check phoneme inventories of the Scandinavian languages, figure out which appear in English but not there, figure out what substitutions are likely to be made. Unfortunately, for your purposes–figuring out how to differentiate the Scandinavian languages in terms of how they project onto English–you may find this all but impossible, as the Scandinavian languages are similar to the degree of mutual intelligibility, and as far as I know the differences they do have are not ones that are likely to show up as "accent" features projected onto English… not written English, at least. I could be wrong, though.

I'll keep an eye out.

 

[Drakhov]

Google gave me nothing but cheesy youtube videos, and I've looked several times. I figure I need a more mythical resource.

It probably goes without saying, but Tolkien's notes from Lord of the Rings might be your best bet here - he was after all a professor of Anglo Saxon at Oxford, studied Norse sagas and Germanic mythology, which he put to use in his Middle Earth epics.

 

[WilliamElse]

I would also recommend kennings and alliteration as being a good way of working in some northern flavour. Also, 'Sir Gawain and the Green Knight' might be worth a look. It's much closer to modern English than Beowulf but written in a northern dialect which uses a lot of Scandinavian loan-words.

As a vaguely-related aside, the Isle of Wight (where I'm from) was used for a long time by vikings as a base from which to raid the south coast. Even now the local dialect, though it's unfortunately dying out, retains the odd echo of Danish. For example, we call people from the mainland of England 'overners'. I'd always thought, as just about everybody here does, that this is simply because they come from 'over the water', but an old islander I once worked with told me it came from the viking word for 'enemy'. A few years later, I asked a Danish friend and he told me that in Danish friend was 'ven' and enemy 'uven. Or something like that - any Danish speakers might like to correct my spelling, which I've just guessed at! Anyway, I thought this was a nice example of the way in which traces of a language can remain and change, even over centuries.

 

[Stari Bogovi]

I was in Norway last summer. A few times I ran into somebody with a somewhat thick accent, especially if they were over 30, but most people spoke better English than we do. The standard non-thick accent, there's definitely something to it but it's very subtle. Think of it as more lilting, flowing, and rounded out than the harsher-sounding (stereotypical) German accent. I hate to use him as an example, but Google "Varg Vikernes" on YouTube and try to find one of his English-language ramblings (for example, his account of killing Euronymous).

Likewise, when I would hear people speaking Norweigan, it sounded more lilting, more 'bouncy' you could even say, than German. Not as many "ichs" and "achs." I remember sitting on a park bench in Oslo under the warm sun in front of a pond, and a guy in his thirties was talking to his three or four year old daughter. I have no idea what he was saying but it sounded like "hick meeka diddaleyoooo hikkalla" or something. I couldn't stop listening to him.

Also, the Icelandic language is the closest to the original Old Norse, if I'm not mistaken.