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Avoiding cliched elves and genre crossovers in a Fantasy Project.

Peat

Sage
Wouldn't Lúthien be considered more important?

She defeated Sauron and lulled Melkor to sleep.

The Tale of Beren and Luthien starts with Beren entering Doriath after the death of his warband and seeing Luthien. He is the prime mover in the tale, he is the Main Character. He's not the most important in the story, but he is the most important to the story.

That's how I see it. YMMV and all that.
 

MineOwnKing

Maester
Well, isn't the Silmarillion omniscient?

I never thought of it as one character's POV.

Beren was saved by Lúthien so I would say her character is at least more interesting.

She was created with Tolkien's wife in mind so I would think from the author's perspective she was the center piece of the story.
 

Ireth

Myth Weaver
Well, isn't the Silmarillion omniscient?

I never thought of it as one character's POV.

Yes, it's a collection of stories dating from Creation itself, much like the Bible.

Beren was saved by Lúthien so I would say her character is at least more interesting.

She was created with Tolkien's wife in mind so I would think from the author's perspective she was the center piece of the story.

I would think so too. And Beren was based on Tolkien himself, naturally.
 

Ban

Troglodytic Trouvère
Article Team
Please please please please write the 1950's disco elves story. I will read the living heck out of it.

Disco was not really a thing in the fifties...


Buuuut I like disco elves, so I will see what I can do. I'm in the very very early stages of writing this anyway, so why not. Maybe 80's culture could be a counterculture in the futuristic fifties.
 

Peat

Sage
Having an Omniscient PoV =/= Not Having a Main Character

I am familiar with the creation story of Beren and Luthien (the names are on their tombstones for crying out loud) but that still does not change my opinion that, as written, the story is framed more about Beren and that makes him the MC. I'd agree that Luthien is the more interesting character but then if I had a pound for every time I thought the MC was not the most interesting character in a book I could buy a small Caribbean island.

Fair enough if anyone still disagrees but I suspect we'll continue to do so.
 

emmarowene

Acolyte
Everybody's made some pretty good points on here! You can work with cliches-- the fantasy genre sort of thrives off them, really-- but you just have to find a small way to take them and make them your own. If you *do* cross genres, for example, you have elves and science!! That's so cool! How often do we get to see that? Or, if you still feel the need to make your elves different, you can look back to the original Germanic and Nordic mythos Tolkien based his elves off of. There are lots of wikipedia pages about them
 
Well, thanks; I've been busy getting my debut science fiction novel ready for publication so most of the projects I've been working on have been put on hold but I'm still working on them as I get time.
 
Wow, coming back after about a year and I've found this thread is full of crazy ideas! Elves fighting in the cold war of the 1950s, Disco Elves (which would put them in 70s), Elves in space (I like that idea especially) and considering that I've lost the original Elf Princess manuscript perhaps I should try a different approach; the idea of putting Elves in space or in the 1950s as a sort of urban fantasy really appeals so maybe I should try a few urban fantasies and do a few space stories and see what happens...Many thanks to you all for your input; it's greatly appreciated.
 

Ban

Troglodytic Trouvère
Article Team
Wow, coming back after about a year and I've found this thread is full of crazy ideas! Elves fighting in the cold war of the 1950s, Disco Elves (which would put them in 70s), Elves in space (I like that idea especially) and considering that I've lost the original Elf Princess manuscript perhaps I should try a different approach; the idea of putting Elves in space or in the 1950s as a sort of urban fantasy really appeals so maybe I should try a few urban fantasies and do a few space stories and see what happens...Many thanks to you all for your input; it's greatly appreciated.

And this reminds me that I still haven't written my 50s space elf story. I should get on that sometime and I'm interested to see what sort of story you will write around these prompts. Please do share some snippets of your work when you"ve written a bit :)
 

Peat

Sage
The Eldar are a race of aliens in a very popular and well known SF setting called "Warhammer 40 000". I throw in a link to a wiki related to that setting. In short however they are "elves in space". There are also Orcs and there used to be Dwarfs in this sci-fi settings but I think the Dwarfs have been retconned out of it by now.

Eldar - Warhammer 40k - Lexicanum

They're officially back in (Space Dwarfs that is), just not really seen.

I actually really like GW's Elves in Space. I think they're a nice balance of traditional Tolkienesque Elf with something different, along with some nice fluff and cool things. The idea of Aspect Warriors is cool and I've just realised possibly a big unintentional influence on what I'm doing. Should I ever get to writing fantasy Elves myself, I might steal a few ideas from the Eldar.

Might be a little obvious for Space Elves though... but hasn't stopped a lot of people!
 
More or less, yeah. But 40k's gone so insane at this point they decided to hold an End Times like they did in the original Warhammer Fantasy. Kind of.
 
Please don't worry about being uncliche. Supposed cliches and cliches for a reason: a lot of people like them.

Genre crossovers are awesome. I love them. Genres are mere limitations anyway...

Also, it annoys me when people try so hard to be "original" with a race or creature (mermaids, werewolves) and end up changing them so much they aren't mermaids or werewolves anymore; they might as well be something else.

i.e. the Twilight Werewolves who aren't actually werewolves?
 
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