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Can we talk about voice again?

Svrtnsse

Staff
Article Team
I know we've been over this before a few times, but it's been a while and it's an interesting topic, so I figured I'd start a new thread rather than wake up one of the old ones. I hope no one minds too much.

In this case I'm talking about author voice, how the prose is written and not just how the characters talk. At its most basic its about how we express ourselves in our story, but I think there's more to it than that.

It's sometimes spoken about how certain authors have such a distinctive voice that you can tell it's them just by the way they write. I'm sure that many of us have at one time or other dreamt of achieving the same (I know I have).

When I started out writing my voice was a big deal to me, and I spent a lot of time thinking about it and trying to develop it into something distinct and interesting. I no longer worry much about it - partly because I found other things I consider more important, and partly because I'm happy with my voice as it is.

I still think it's an interesting topic for discussion though.

Like, what even is voice? It's got to be more than just the words you use, right? It's in the rhythm and flow of the words, and in the way your story moves. It's in how you describe your scenes and arrange the unfolding of the events of your story.
Or is it? What's your take?

Further, what can you do to find and improve and practice your voice? What I did was to settle on an idea and then exaggerate it to see what would happen, but this may not work for everyone.
 

Butterfly

Auror
I think voice, is more than that. It's not just about the author, and has a lot to do with the POV character. To illustrate...

I read Joe Abercrombies 'The Heroes'. What struck me is that each chapter sounds different when shifting POV. Each character has their own voice, distinctive from the other. What is important to each character is in there, their motives, their outlook on life.

It's a good book to read to analyse these sorts of things, along with battle scenes.
 

Mythopoet

Auror
Voice is you. Period. How you write things. No one else could write your story and your characters the way that you do. That's voice. Nothing more.
 

Ankari

Hero Breaker
Moderator
Authorial voice is the pattern an author develops in their writing. It is the themes they chose, the word choices, the application of words, the structure of sentences, the identified objects which enter the exposition, and the metaphor and simile choices.

It is who you are as a writer after you've become a writer.

While we hone our craft our authorial voice changes. We will not have a defining one until we have settled into our own authorial skins.

You can't learn authorial voice. It is the end result of learning everything else about writing.
 

skip.knox

toujours gai, archie
Moderator
Character voice is different from authorial voice. As Svrtnsse said, the author's voice means you recognize the style from one book to another.

Our poor internal editor endures much flak from most every quarter, but I think it plays a role here. When we ourselves are writing a sentence, or revising a sentence, and we think oh that's too wordy, or clumsy or vague, or even when we think "that's perfect!", I think it's at that precise moment we can see our voice at work. And perhaps that's the point at which we might be able to cultivate our voice. More of that, less of this other.

There are places where I'm aware of it. I'm fond of repetition. I like the rhythm established by using and, though outside readers often ding me for it. I use it less now, but to me it creates an epic, biblical rhythm. I like sentence fragments, to tack on an additional thought, offering another image. This means semi-colons and em-dashes pop up more often in my writing. There are other elements.

I confess I don't put much thought to this, harboring the perhaps romantic notion that if I examine too closely some of the magical fairies might leave in a huff (a two-wheeled huff, not the four-wheeled). I doubt that's really true; I've been writing for over fifty years; I may have developed some habits.

I would distinguish between the above kinds of things and the deliberate choices we make, such as whether to use contractions in the narrative. Those are stylistic choices, part of our craft. I see voice as something we more or less can't help doing, though we might shape it a bit in the edit. I think that's why as readers we recognize it across books--the author can't help but be consistent.

All that having been said, I'm not sure it's worth a lot. Good writers can also bury themselves, writing with an entirely different voice where the story calls for it, their publisher demands it, or they just plain feel like it. I value it, but I do not hold it too precious.
 

Chessie2

Staff
Article Team
It's the sound of you on paper. This is the best article I've read on the subject: Business Musings: Serious Writer Voice

Our voice is only something readers notice, not really us with our own work. Meaning, I think we recognize voice in the work of others but not our own. I know the sound of your voice instantly when I read your work, Svrt. It's developed over time so it exists. :D As for how to bring out on, only practice can do that. Writing regularly and finishing our work is the best way of honing our voice and skills.

From an author's perspective, when I sit down to write I often think of what the words sound like. Storytelling becomes intuitive but I often hear the intonations and expressions of the story in my head as I write them down. I assume it's the same for all of us. That's our author voice being put on paper.

It's funny you bring this up because last night I was thinking of this very same subject. For fun, I started writing a story for my blog and wrote the opening for it last night. I realized that most of my stories start out in this storytelling-ish sort of style, outside the characters, and I move into dialogue shortly thereafter. I like to give readers a glimpse of the setting first of all, time and flavor of the world, then give them a peek into the character's head before dialogue. But none of that is author voice. The words I choose, how I put those words together, the vibe of the story becomes apparent through these choices I make. That's author voice imo.

EDIT: To add that I think we write in the way we also talk. In real life, I'm a fast talker. A chatterbox. Think of a tape recorder set to 10 and that's how the words flow out of my mouth. It's the same when I write. I pause a lot, add things in, embellish on things a little and then go back to the main story. When I tell a story in real life it's the same way. I'm annoyingly expressive and loud, straight to the point. I write a story like this, too. When I meet other authors irl and read their work the tone of their writing almost always matches the tone of how they are as people. It's a pretty cool thing.
 
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Svrtnsse

Staff
Article Team
This is the best article I've read on the subject: Business Musings: Serious Writer Voice
I've read that one too, and it makes a lot of great points on the topic.
As for how to bring out on, only practice can do that. Writing regularly and finishing our work is the best way of honing our voice and skills.
Indeed. I used to be really concerned with voice as a beginner. I even wrote an article about it for the site here about what I'd done to try and find my voice. These days I think I've got a bit of a different take on it, and I can probably sum things up with: write in a way you're comfortable with.

The reason I wanted to bring it up was something I came across in another thread the other day where someone mentioned how they had a vision for the voice their story would be told in. I didn't think much about it at the time, but the thought popped up again today and I figured it'd be interesting to see what others had to say on the topic (again).

I spent way too much time and energy worrying about it. It was fun and interesting and perhaps it paid off in some way. I doubt I'll ever write as Jansson or Gaiman, but I'll for sure write as Odlund. :)

EDIT: To add that I think we write in the way we also talk.
I guess that's why it takes me forever to write anything. :p
 

Heliotrope

Staff
Article Team
The reason I wanted to bring it up was something I came across in another thread the other day where someone mentioned how they had a vision for the voice their story would be told in.

I read this too. When I see statements like this it tells me that the writer is not yet confident in their own inner storyteller. They are still insecure about storytelling and think that some "other" voice is more interesting than their own.

I actually don't think that writer voice is something that comes with practice. I think we all have it, naturally. Using it on paper comes with confidence. When we can finally embrace it for being our way of telling a story, and not trying to change it to something we think is more literary, or whatever.

The best way I can explain this is using parties. You know when you are at a party, and maybe you have all had a bit of wine or whatever, and there are some people who are just natural story tellers? They are funny, they know the right words to use, they know when to pause, and when to speed up. They know what background information to give and when to withhold it for the best comedic timing... I have a friend like this. He is a sort of blue collar redneck gutter installer and man, does he know how to tell a story. People just crowd around him at parties and he always has a group laughing. When people leave they always say "Man, I really like that guy. He is fun to listen to."

To me, that quality is writer voice. That is what we have to try to embrace. Find that quality in ourselves. OUR way of telling a story.

I have discovered that I don't have a literary voice. I have found my niche with kids stories because I tend to write very simply, and very concisely. I don't mince words. It was disappointing, for a while, and I felt like I was cheating myself because I wasn't "literary". I wasn't writing like the writers in Crazy Horse Magazine. But that style is not my storytelling style. And I'm okay with that now.
 

skip.knox

toujours gai, archie
Moderator
I dunno about that article. I often hear writing rules criticized for being absolute, but it is economical to state a rule simply; otherwise, one has to append "in most cases" or "this is only a guideline" at the end of every sentence. The rule is not responsible for those who follow blindly.

As for the treatment of voice in that article, what Rusch describes sound to me more like just plain weak writing, not examples of otherwise good writing that has been ground down into meal. I do agree that we need to write as ourselves first. Some people stop there, and that is a mistake of a different sort. At the same time, what is one to make of all the advice for beginners to try to imitate others consciously? I'd treat that as an exercise, but I would not try to write something for publication in that way. More like a singer consciously imitating another singer. It helps to increase one's range. Sometimes you find your own voice by singing with others.

As for those workshops, well I live in southwestern Idaho. Workshops, along with other other aspects of Advanced Civilization, have not really found us yet. But I like my crit group, and I shall not fear to attend a workshop and even pay to do so, should the opportunity arise.
 

Russ

Istar
I think in writing the word "voice" can have two very different meanings.

The first is the author's voice. That is the general, hopefully distinct and entertaining, way in which the author writes overall. I don't think this is a matter of planning, but it is more a matter of self-discovery. Of having the courage and giving yourself permission to write in a way that is true to yourself. Now that does not mean an author's voice cannot grow and change from work to work, or year to year

Then there is character voice. That is the way a character speaks and thinks that is distinctly their own. That needs to be planned, nurtured and carried out individually for each character. You can tell it is working when people read what your character thought or said and simply know who thought or said that passage with any attribution.

The idea of honing your voice by exaggerating it for a while is an interesting one. If I had time for all that writing and re-writing I think that might well be worth a short.
 

Mythopoet

Auror
A character's voice is a part their characterization. It makes no sense to make a separate element out of it.

As far as finding or improving your voice goes, I think that's the wrong way of looking at it. You already have your voice. It's been with you your whole life. It's who you are. You don't need to find it or improve it, you only have to set it free. You have to remove the shackles of everything you've learned that tells you to change your voice to suit others or tells you that your voice isn't good enough yet. You have to be wholly yourself while writing. And yes, your voice is going to change over time because you are going to change over time. But that doesn't mean your voice today is inferior to your voice in the future. You can't sit back and think "my voice will be more developed in 5 years, I'll publish then". You could end up putting it off forever that way.
 

Insolent Lad

Maester
Now, when I write a first person narrative is that my voice or my character's? In truth, I see 'the author' as essentially another character. His or her voice is created the same as those of the characters. I create it. It is not me, or not anymore so than the characters are. And it may well vary from one book to another, as they may require a different voice.

Of course, I could argue that I created my real life voice as well...
 

Mythopoet

Auror
Now, when I write a first person narrative is that my voice or my character's? In truth, I see 'the author' as essentially another character. His or her voice is created the same as those of the characters. I create it. It is not me, or not anymore so than the characters are. And it may well vary from one book to another, as they may require a different voice.

Of course, I could argue that I created my real life voice as well...

Voice is how you yourself write such a characters. Given the exact same character traits, a different author should write the character in a different way. You see?
 

Peat

Sage
All that having been said, I'm not sure it's worth a lot. Good writers can also bury themselves, writing with an entirely different voice where the story calls for it, their publisher demands it, or they just plain feel like it. I value it, but I do not hold it too precious.

I'm not sure I'd agree with this. There are many writers who I'll forgive all sorts of sins because I like the way they write; the way they describe things, the way they tell jokes, the way they spring surprises. Similarly there's some writers I really struggle to read because I hate their jokes, their sense of what is important. Voice is hugely important to me, and its also the first thing I can make a judgement about, the first make or break hurdle for an author to pass for me.

I would agree that good writers can write with an entirely different voice though.
 

Penpilot

Staff
Article Team
The first is the author's voice. That is the general, hopefully distinct and entertaining, way in which the author writes overall. I don't think this is a matter of planning, but it is more a matter of self-discovery. Of having the courage and giving yourself permission to write in a way that is true to yourself. Now that does not mean an author's voice cannot grow and change from work to work, or year to year

My college writing teacher once said that one of the reasons he kept us constantly writing was to empty ourselves. It took me a while to understand what he meant by that. For me, when I'm constantly writing, I exhaust myself of all the pent up ideas and expectations of what I think the story should be and let it come out as whatever it naturally is. No trying to force fancy or poetic or clever. Just let the words come. If they're fancy or poetic or clever, then so be it, but they'll be natural, unforced, and most important of all, IMHO, truthful.
 
A character's voice is a part their characterization. It makes no sense to make a separate element out of it.

As far as finding or improving your voice goes, I think that's the wrong way of looking at it. You already have your voice. It's been with you your whole life. It's who you are. You don't need to find it or improve it, you only have to set it free. You have to remove the shackles of everything you've learned that tells you to change your voice to suit others or tells you that your voice isn't good enough yet. You have to be wholly yourself while writing. And yes, your voice is going to change over time because you are going to change over time. But that doesn't mean your voice today is inferior to your voice in the future. You can't sit back and think "my voice will be more developed in 5 years, I'll publish then". You could end up putting it off forever that way.

^This is how I view voice.

I like to consider how voice and style differ. If you think of this in a non-writing sense, you can maybe understand my perspective better. The words that come out of my mouth are in my voice. I could attempt to imitate others (not well, but Hank Azaria sure has the gift), but there is a voice that is uniquely mine, and no amount of practice will change it--the most it will do is make me hoarse. But when I speak, I can add all sorts of hand gestures, wear funny hats or flashy clothes, surround myself with sparkling lights or erupting flames, and that's style.

As I age, my voice will change, but not as much as it did when I hit puberty. That's perhaps an analogy worth exploring, but I'll leave that for someone else or some other day. I have to get back to editing my WIP. :)
 

Demesnedenoir

Myth Weaver
Writers can certainly change voice, but how much is debatable. I think I can change mine, but I also think there is a base pattern to my voice. For good or ill, I have voice, LOL.

Using voice as a “judge” for writing is dangerous, you can miss some great stuff. I tend to find I need to give an author fifty+ pages if their “voice” is much different from something I was reading previous. This makes critiquing short samples difficult, and why I never take comments on voice seriously unless someone has read a lot of pages.

Now, crappy writing is something else entirely. Crap writing can be an instant judgment, LOL.

I should also note I once changed voice enough switching to a different character that my editor told to me cut it out, so I backed off, LOL.
 

Heliotrope

Staff
Article Team
No trying to force fancy or poetic or clever. Just let the words come. If they're fancy or poetic or clever, then so be it, but they'll be natural, unforced, and most important of all, IMHO, truthful.

Totally. Voice is a bit like The Emperor's New Clothes. Once you really find it it is like walking around naked in public. Totally naked. In public. There is a sort of crazy euphoria that comes from it, but you also feel ashamed and unsure and like you want to cover up.

This is where people who haven't found their voice get into trouble, IMO. They are afraid of walking around naked in public so they "dress" their voice up in fancy words, highlighting "boring" words and searching for synonyms until they find just the right one. They work and rework sentences over and over to make them sound more literary, adding layers of imagery and metaphor where they aren't needed. It comes off as fake, forced, and overly cosmetic.

I gave an example above about my gutter installer friend. He tells really raw, funny stories that people love. On the flip side, my 96 year old grandfather tells awe inspiring stories of war that bring people to tears. No one is laughing when he is talking.... but they sure are listening.

Voice isn't just about HOW we as individuals tell stories. It is also about the type of stories you naturally choose to tell. Some readers will love you because you tell stories they want to read. Others may not be into what you have to say. But that is also part of your voice.
 
When I first started writing (and I think a lot of people might be able to relate to this) I was always trying to write "writerly" as if there is some specific way that fiction is supposed to be written. Another issue I had was, I'd look at another person's book that I thought was really good and try to imitate it. In other words, my prose were very forced.

I think that as time goes and you keep writing, voice is something that you kind of just develop. I've been able to recognize my own voice. At this point, I've kind of just been letting it come out. I try not to force anything because that can ruin the flow, and forced prose tend to be noticeable and read rather amateur.

In my writers group, I can tell people who just started writing by the lack of voice or what I notice to be forced voice, but I try not to comment on it too much because I believe it's something they will grow to develop as they keep writing.

As far as my own voice goes. I don't hate it. Sometimes I look at it and roll my eyes due to that feeling we all go through every once in a while where we feel like our work will never amount to anything, but I don't hate it. Like I said, I just let it come out, don't try to force it or anything. It's even found it's way in my essays at school, and I've got some pretty good comments from my professors, so, maybe I'm doing something right.

Interesting discussion!
 

Penpilot

Staff
Article Team
Totally. Voice is a bit like The Emperor's New Clothes. Once you really find it it is like walking around naked in public. Totally naked. In public. There is a sort of crazy euphoria that comes from it, but you also feel ashamed and unsure and like you want to cover up.

OMG, that analogy is perfect.
 
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