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How can I create a plot?

fantastic

Minstrel
I have a general premise, some story elements and some world building.

The premise is: A young person is a part of an order that protects people from all kinds of threats you would expect in a fantasy (conspiracies, evil creatures, oppressive rulers,...). He joins a special school to learn how to fight. But what if those threats start to act while he is still in the school and in order to face them he has to join forces with few students who have their own reasons to fight?

The story is intended for adults but in some ways, I suppose my premise might resemble Harry Potter books. And while that may be insightful, I don't really know how to make the plot out of it. It would be stupid if it was completely linear: "Protagonist joins the school, the villains cause problems, protagonist gathers a team, the team beats the villains". But at the same time I don't know how to construct a story that combines different elements in an interesting way.

What would be a good way to approach this problem?
 

goldhawk

Troubadour
What motivates your protag? Why should he care? Or why doesn't he join the villain because he thinks it will be more fun? Your protag needs a good reason to get involved in the story.
 

fantastic

Minstrel
What motivates your protag? Why should he care? Or why doesn't he join the villain because he thinks it will be more fun? Your protag needs a good reason to get involved in the story.

Well, it is his duty to protect people as he is part of the order. He wouldn't join the villains because he dislikes people who hurt innocent people. I imagine most people would side with who they consider are the good guys.
 

goldhawk

Troubadour
Well, it is his duty to protect people as he is part of the order. He wouldn't join the villains because he dislikes people who hurt innocent people. I imagine most people would side with who they consider are the good guys.

Those are vague reasons for him to get involved. Just by the tone of your comment, you realize this subconsciously. These may be the reasons he got started, but what keeps him going when the going gets tough? He needs a strong, personal reason to put up with the ton of hurt you're about to dump on him.
 

Heliotrope

Staff
Article Team
Well, it is his duty to protect people as he is part of the order. He wouldn't join the villains because he dislikes people who hurt innocent people. I imagine most people would side with who they consider are the good guys.

Think about it this way, if your character walked away or died, could someone else who is a “good guy” pick up where he left off and finish the job? If the answer is yes you have a problem. The main character must be involved because the threat is personal. Because the stakes are high for him, personally. Bruce Willis didn’t risk his life in the bank in Die Hard because he was a good guy. It was to rescue and avenge his wife. Frodo Baggins didn’t take the ring to Mordor because he was a good guy. He did it because Gandolf told him he was the only one who could be trusted not to succumb to the rings power, and to save the shire. Maximus in Gladiator didn’t want to kill the prince because he was a rebel. He did it because he was the only one who knew what the prince had done, and he was willing to risk his life to avenge his family. Your character needs a personal reason why he needs to fight this villain. He has to be the only one who can do it, so the reader actually cares.

In all three of the examples I gave, no one else could have achieved the goal. If Bruce Willis had died, no one else would have stopped the bank robbery. If Frodo had died, anyone else trying to destroy the ring would have fallen under its spell. If Maximus had died, the prince would have become Emporer, because no one else knew the truth. What makes your character special? What makes them crucial to the plot?
 

goldhawk

Troubadour
The main character must be involved because the threat is personal. Because the stakes are high for him, personally.

Not necessarily a threat. Survivor's guilt is a powerful emotion and can drive people to extreme lengths. The protag needs a powerful emotion but it need not always be fear.
 

Heliotrope

Staff
Article Team
I stand by the word choice. Conflict is always a threat. Not necessarily a physical threat, but a threat none the less. It could be a threat to a way of life, a threat to a self-perception, a threat to a strongly held belief... whatever it is, it is still a threat that the way things have always been will change, and that is what the character is trying to stop.

So with your example of survivors guilt, I'm not sure how survival's guilt would motivate a person to act... but is survival's guilt not a sort of fear? I think it is the perfect example of how fear drives people to feel irrational things. Usually people who have survival's guilt fear a lot of things... that they were allowed to survive for a higher purpose, but they will never be able to achieve that calling... often times they live in great fear that they did something wrong that allowed them to survive, while others did not. They fear that were the cause of the deaths (in the case of suicide or murders). Often times they have post traumatic stress syndrome, and fear simple things like loud noises, or certain items that bring back memories.

Often times they resist treatment because they fear they actually 'deserve' the feelings they have, and are resistant to being helped to release them. The therapy is perceived to be a "threat" to their deeply held belief they they deserve to be unhappy, and they will resist anyone trying to help them. Many people with Survivors guilt end up with depression and anxiety and kill themselves, because they can no longer cope with the irrational fears.

So, I disagree. When one gets down to it, pretty much most protagonists are driven by deeply rooted fear that the status quo is going to change, and they need to try to stop the change.
 
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fantastic

Minstrel
Those are vague reasons for him to get involved. Just by the tone of your comment, you realize this subconsciously. These may be the reasons he got started, but what keeps him going when the going gets tough? He needs a strong, personal reason to put up with the ton of hurt you're about to dump on him.

You are right that it doesn't seem like a good reason. There needs to be some kind of "reward" for doing it.

Think about it this way, if your character walked away or died, could someone else who is a “good guy” pick up where he left off and finish the job? If the answer is yes you have a problem. The main character must be involved because the threat is personal. Because the stakes are high for him, personally. Bruce Willis didn’t risk his life in the bank in Die Hard because he was a good guy. It was to rescue and avenge his wife. Frodo Baggins didn’t take the ring to Mordor because he was a good guy. He did it because Gandolf told him he was the only one who could be trusted not to succumb to the rings power, and to save the shire. Maximus in Gladiator didn’t want to kill the prince because he was a rebel. He did it because he was the only one who knew what the prince had done, and he was willing to risk his life to avenge his family. Your character needs a personal reason why he needs to fight this villain. He has to be the only one who can do it, so the reader actually cares.

In all three of the examples I gave, no one else could have achieved the goal. If Bruce Willis had died, no one else would have stopped the bank robbery. If Frodo had died, anyone else trying to destroy the ring would have fallen under its spell. If Maximus had died, the prince would have become Emporer, because no one else knew the truth. What makes your character special? What makes them crucial to the plot?

I understand what you are saying. The protagonist needs a personal goal. But how do you make a goal personal? Is trying to protect yourself personal? Saving the world means saving yourself, but I am not sure whether that would count as a personal goal. What was the personal goal of Harry Potter in the first book?

I can give some reason for why the protagonist should get involved. But most personal reasons I can think of is always saving some other person. All others feel less personal, do you have any advice about that?
 

Heliotrope

Staff
Article Team
I understand what you are saying. The protagonist needs a personal goal. But how do you make a goal personal? Is trying to protect yourself personal? Saving the world means saving yourself, but I am not sure whether that would count as a personal goal. What was the personal goal of Harry Potter in the first book?

So in the first Harry Potter she establishes right from the very beginning that Harry is special. The reader knows and understands this immediately. His parents were killed by Voldemort, but for some reason he was not. This is unheard of. He his famous in the wizarding world. When the time comes for Harry to act and solve the "mystery" he has a few reasons... protect the school, protect his friends, not go back the Dursley's... but also, when he survives (again!) at the end, and simply touching his skin causes Quirrel to burn up... the reader knows for sure that Harry is the chosen one.

So this answers the question: Could anyone else take Harry's place and have the same outcome? The answer, of course, is no. Hermione or Ron could not defeat Voldemort at the end. The reader knows it HAS to be Harry, and so they are invested in the boy. Harry doesn't do what he does because he is a "good guy".... he is also driven by the fear of what happened to his parents, and self interest in not having to go back to a loveless home with the Dursley's.
 

Heliotrope

Staff
Article Team
This is the issue with story concepts (which is what you have).... it is not a plot. Obviously you know this, or your wouldn't have asked.

Plot has to do with a person. One person with one goal and high stakes. It can be helpful to think of a premise statement, starting with "What if?" and a "but" in the middle....

Maybe read through my posts in this thread for more info:

What could be a occupation for a dhampir?
 

fantastic

Minstrel
This is the issue with story concepts (which is what you have).... it is not a plot. Obviously you know this, or your wouldn't have asked.

Plot has to do with a person. One person with one goal and high stakes. It can be helpful to think of a premise statement, starting with "What if?" and a "but" in the middle....

Maybe read through my posts in this thread for more info:

What could be a occupation for a dhampir?

The content you provided is very interesting. So, I tried to make a premise statement:

What if a young member of the order has to face threats while attending school but the only way to do so is to join forces with few students who have their own reasons to fight?

In what way could I improve it?
 

Heliotrope

Staff
Article Team
Good. Ok, so as a reader, I would expect that the threats the person has to face are personal. For some reason, he is feeling threatened enough by this group of people, and he fears for his life, or someone else's life, or he fears for something else... so he joins forces with a group of students in order to stop the threats.

So I would ask you to be more specific. What are the threats? How could they be personal? What kind of order is he in? Why would he SPECIFICALLY be threatened, and not anyone else? (Remember, you have to make the story about HIM. This is HIS story.)

For example, here is an example of a specific man, who joins the ranks of a specific order, and feels threatened for a specific reason from the show Downton Abby:

What if a crippled war hero joined the ranks as Valet for a wealthy Lord, but an up and coming footman was jealous that a disabled man got the position over him and threatened to take him down no matter what? The crippled man has the option to gang up on the Footman, but should he, at the risk of losing his position?

Do you see how it is a VERY specific story? Right now you don't have a story.... you don't have a specific plot.
 

Firefly

Troubadour
It might help if you added more of a concrete goal. Having a specific goal for your protagonist is hugely helpful in planning out a story. It helps you figure out what sorts of obstacles they’re going to face, it gives the protagonist something to do, it makes them more sympathetic, and it gives you something to threaten in order to create stakes. The main goal of the story helps focus the entire plot.
What you have right now are obstacles. The monsters are an obstacle. The other students sound like they might be an obstacle. School could be an obstacle. But what are these things an obstacle to?
From what you’ve given us, the most obvious goal for your protagonist would be to defeat the monsters. But it could also be not failing all their classes, or getting a crush to like them, or finding out a secret, or basically anything that the monsters are somewhow getting in the way of. It can even be more than one thing. Giving a character more than one goal and forcing them to choose can be a great way to generate inner conflict.
 

goldhawk

Troubadour
The protagonist needs a personal goal. But how do you make a goal personal? Is trying to protect yourself personal? Saving the world means saving yourself, but I am not sure whether that would count as a personal goal. What was the personal goal of Harry Potter in the first book?

Look to strong emotions: love, guilt, jealousy, thrill-seeking, fairness. Who is you protag? What do they do? What do they love? What do they hate? Everyone thinks their the hero of their own story. That includes your protag. Then something happens that challenges his view of himself. But before you decide what happens you have to decide what is challenged. And how he feels about it.

Harry is motivate by the unfairness in his life. Justice seeking is a strong emotion. Nothing will bring the people out into the streets faster than perceived injustice.
 
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