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Fictional Ethnicities and Bloodlines

Devor

Fiery Keeper of the Hat
Moderator
In my story Smughitter the setting's history involves Empire of Pel Daxas conquering the Rikstorin Peninsula, and it's very loosely similar to the way that Rome conquered into regions of Western Europe. Eventually Pel Daxis lost power and the region splintered into five different countries.

This means that in my setting there's two noticeable human ethnicities, the people who are from Pel Daxis, and the people who were already on the Rikstorin Peninsula. And of course, most people have some ancestry from both groups.

It's also possible that the empire of Pel Daxis had large groups of people from a third or fourth ethnicity from other parts of its empire outside the relevant map. And of course trade can bring people from all over the world.

The implication is that the Rikstorins were white and the Pel Daxians are shades of brown. It's just history though, with a tertiary social backdrop. It's supposed to be a way to make things diverse. Does that work or do I have issues (significant or precautionary)?

Anyways, I was looking for ways to make humans more magical, and I thought I might do it through bloodlines. The idea I'm toying with - and might end up scrapping, not sure yet - is to have a handful of family lineages possess small physical or magical properties. Some of the bloodlines would go back through Pel Daxis, and some different ones would go back through the Rikstorin people. Each bloodline would only affect a few people from that ethnicity, and everyone else would be normal.

Does that create issues? What kind of bloodlines would be okay vs. too much?

For an example, there's a scene in ASOIAF where Davos is visiting an island in the North and speaks to someone who has webbing on their fingers because of a bloodline running through that region. I'm hoping to create scenes with similar details, maybe more magical.
 
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Miles Lacey

Archmage
I'm a little bothered by the intention of creating an ethnicity that is brown skinned simply for the purpose of greater diversity. Surely there could be a more practical reason such as the Pel Daxas originally being from a predominately hotter or tropical region? This would give you the ability to create two distinct ethnicities with two distinct cultures: one based on living in a tropical or hotter environment and another based on living in a more temperate or colder climate. Of course, a common shared history would also alow for both ethnicities to have certain cultural elements that are common to both ethnicities. Or, alternatively, for a hybrid culture to emerge.

Just throwing in a few random thoughts here. :)
 

Devor

Fiery Keeper of the Hat
Moderator
I'm a little bothered by the intention of creating an ethnicity that is brown skinned simply for the purpose of greater diversity.

It probably sounds that way because of the way I framed the discussion. I actually sat down to the figure out the history and I started with "let's lay it out around the six forging wars.... what would those be?" First there's empires, then there's nation building, then there's skirmishes and colonization, then there's world war....

I've only mapped the peninsula. What's left of Pel Daxis is in the north and it's borders run off the map, suggesting a bigger continent. I made that decision because I'm tired of huge fantasy worlds that in practice are somehow smaller than Texas. A whole continent is too much to chew, so to speak.
 

Eduardo Ficaria

Troubadour
What I understand from your explanation, Devor , is that you're considering linking the magical power to certain bloodlines that happen to have certain physical traits, am I right? Well, you could play with this idea in the sense that what really happens is that, yes, for many generations, the people from certain bloodlines have kept a certain aspect or traits. So, what they have seen again and again in all those years is that only people with those traits are the ones that usually end having the power. But you, the writer, know that the magic inheritance is due to genetics of some sort.

Then, what happens when someone that doesn't have any of those expected traits shows up having the power? Here you certainly have the spark for conflict: a kid conceived in a forbidden romance happens to be born with the power of a certain high-class or royal bloodline. I know this is such a classic setting, but it always delivers when used properly!

Talking more broadly about bloodlines, they were important in medieval and later periods because they gave access to power or, at least, privileges. Noble women had the important task of being the title holders to pass them on to their children, and to the men they married too. Also, we have to think about how important was for roman aristocratic families to arrange their children marriages: by combining the wealth and quality of two important families, they were aware that they were potentially building more powerful dinasties and gaining allies and influence in their society. So, to sum up, the bloodlines thing has been always about gaining power.

Now, regarding the ethnic question, you'll must consider first how much contact exists between the cultures in your setting. In bustling cities with a lot of trade, a mixed bloodline could be considered not only normal but even a desired trait. That way, families powerful in magic ensure that their dinasties have access to all kind of magical techniques around their known world. In fact, they could even crave for having such power in their bloodline and have harems just for the sake of breeding kids with all kinds of magical powers. The opposite could be societies in more remote areas, in which for generations people has remained mostly the same (think Japan, for instance) and usually don't see much people of other ethnicities except as slaves or, from their perspective, some other lowly status. They could find people with different traits suspicious or even dangerous, and also this could lead to reject certain kinds of magic they haven't seen before. This suspicion also extends to the leaders of such cultures, they could find certain magical powers not just strange, but a direct menace to their own position in their society.

...
Does that create issues? What kind of bloodlines would be okay vs. too much?
...

Based on all that mouthful I typed above, to answer the question I think you'll need to work in defining the cultures present in your setting. More precisely, how they deal with each other? How open are they to new people and ideas? How important is the purity of their bloodline for them? What are their superstitions about bloodlines, ethnic traits and magic inheritance? Depending on the answer to questions like these, you'll see what bloodlines are right for each of the cultures in your setting.
 
I think it is is mostly relevant to your POV and writing style. you could probably do the whole thing you describe without any reference to skin color. Blood is not skin.

That said I do reference skin color in some of my work.. so its not like I am saying you can't. but my advice is to focus on your intent and the more extraneous things you can let go, the clearer your message and writing will be.
 

Edward Evjen

Dreamer
Thinking about the webbing example.
A tiny physical detail you may like: white people have longer and thinner noses for warming up air. Colored people don't need to warm up the air and thus had broader noses. I think the trade-off is it's easier to breathe through a broad nose. It's subtle, probably too subtle for any plot point.
 
yeah, one of the 'huge' genetic/inherited traits that scandinavian people (me) have is we are pretty good at digesting milk and cheese products. It's super good as I love cheese... but not sure it is big factor in plots of any consequence
 

skip.knox

toujours gai, archie
Moderator
Why not look to other physical diversities other than skin color? If you make skin color the significant factor, and make the colors white and brown, you are basically advertising your story is going to be a fantasy cover of racism. If that's the intent, then fine; otherwise, I think it would be a mistake. There are so many other options.
 

Aldarion

Archmage
In my story Smughitter the setting's history involves Empire of Pel Daxas conquering the Rikstorin Peninsula, and it's very loosely similar to the way that Rome conquered into regions of Western Europe. Eventually Pel Daxis lost power and the region splintered into five different countries.

This means that in my setting there's two noticeable human ethnicities, the people who are from Pel Daxis, and the people who were already on the Rikstorin Peninsula. And of course, most people have some ancestry from both groups.

It's also possible that the empire of Pel Daxis had large groups of people from a third or fourth ethnicity from other parts of its empire outside the relevant map. And of course trade can bring people from all over the world.

The implication is that the Rikstorins were white and the Pel Daxians are shades of brown. It's just history though, with a tertiary social backdrop. It's supposed to be a way to make things diverse. Does that work or do I have issues (significant or precautionary)?

Anyways, I was looking for ways to make humans more magical, and I thought I might do it through bloodlines. The idea I'm toying with - and might end up scrapping, not sure yet - is to have a handful of family lineages possess small physical or magical properties. Some of the bloodlines would go back through Pel Daxis, and some different ones would go back through the Rikstorin people. Each bloodline would only affect a few people from that ethnicity, and everyone else would be normal.

Does that create issues? What kind of bloodlines would be okay vs. too much?

For an example, there's a scene in ASOIAF where Davos is visiting an island in the North and speaks to someone who has webbing on their fingers because of a bloodline running through that region. I'm hoping to create scenes with similar details, maybe more magical.

First, you seem to be confusing "races" and "ethnicities". Both - especially in pre-modern times - will have physical and biological differences, but these will go far deeper than just skin colour. And while two ethnicities within a single race will be more difficult to tell apart than two different races, to person who knows what to look for differences will be obvious nonetheless.

Second, differences in skin tone are due to climate, while general biological differences are also mostly due to climate but also geography and so on. Taking general body build for example, look at ectomorph map:
XSUMX87XoZMzCHZfIBZwY5DV7biICQoIXAJOsUlY9vS_P530F-oQar-whvi1nYBYAPsy8V1-UX139xFpDIb5i4n8DLx0txbW

Notice how ectomorphs are mostly distributed in hot, flat areas - but also in areas with temperate climate which are a) flat and b) close to the ocean? This is because of two factors. Climatically, areas which have higher average temperatures with not that much variation promote slimmer build in order to cool down better. Topographically, ectomorphs are good at endurance hunting / endurance running, which is a very good strategy for hunting game in open plains if you don't have horses. Now look at endomorph map:
endomorph.gif

Nearly inverse of ectomorph one - endomorphs are highly present in areas which are either cold or else have pronounced periods of low temperatures, because they deal with cold well. They are also present in relatively more mountainous areas, where physical strength is more important than endurance for hunting.

So if you are going to have different ethnic / racial groups, I suggest researching how such groups evolve and which environments give rise to certain characteristics. Physical characteristics, yes, but also cultural, technological and societal characteristics. For example, bows became popular among peoples of mesomorphic and endomorphic stature, and then further promoted evolution in that direction; for people of predominantly ectomorphic stature, slings and javelins were more widely used.

You can then connect this to magical potential. In my setting, different ethnic groups use different types of magic, depending on their geographic orientation and other aspects, and so on. For example, Atrebati - which are basically Celts - have affinity for forrest / wood magic, and other groups also have their own magical propensities.
 

Devor

Fiery Keeper of the Hat
Moderator
Taking general body build for example, look at ectomorph map...

Huh.

Your maps didn't show up so I had to google it. But that's really interesting, and it's the first I'm learning about this. Do you know of any other big traits that you can plot on a climate map like this?
 

Devor

Fiery Keeper of the Hat
Moderator
If you make skin color the significant factor, and make the colors white and brown, you are basically advertising your story is going to be a fantasy cover of racism.

Again, it probably sounds that way because of the way I framed the discussion, but this is deep background history. Smughitter is about sprites, and the villains are a "dark cohort" of people that was put together from groups residing in each of the five countries, but not the governments. Since the story is like 800 years after the empire came and like 500 after the nations broke apart, and 300 after a big war for the survival of the planet that forced people to work together, the result is that the population is pretty mixed. It's not a major plot point so much as a way of noting character details.
 

Aldarion

Archmage
Huh.

Your maps didn't show up so I had to google it. But that's really interesting, and it's the first I'm learning about this. Do you know of any other big traits that you can plot on a climate map like this?

They show up fine for me. Anyway, they are from this site:
Human Phenotypes

I suggest you browse it, it has a lot of stuff connected to human evolution. These might be useful though:
Anthropological traits
Map Search
 
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