Non-literal definitions for words

[Electric Bone Flute]

Usually humorous, at times provocative, sometimes when people ask what a word means, they will give a response that is not in fact a definition, but either a joke definition, or an ideologically slanted definition. For example: Q: "what do you call someone who keeps talking to someone else who has clearly lost interest in the subject?" A: "Autistic." It could be that such a person has autism, but that's not the sole explanation. Q: "What is a progressive?" A: "Someone whose bleeding heart has drained their brain." Q: "What is a traditionalist?" A: "A blind man who clings to his grandfather's relics for comfort."

Is there a name for this type of definition, this non-defining definition that doesn't enlighten the asker but rather only pleases the definer for having said it?

 

[Chasejxyz]

That example with autism isn't very cool, btw.

What you're talking about is riddles, essentially. The definer, by setting it up and giving the answer and only doing it for their own pleasure, could be referred to as a "douchebag" or "someone who thinks they are very clever and edgy."

 

[Electric Bone Flute]

I didn't have in mind the definer being the person posing the question, though I can see with how I wrote it it would same as if the answerer is setting the question up. No, what I had in mind was two people talking, one asking, one answering, and the asker getting the short end of the conversation because the answerer wishes to be clever.
And as for the autism example, it came to mind because I saw the question somewhere else online, and without posting, thought, "people with autism do that sometimes," but under my breath it came out as "autistic," and I then thought, "imagine how unhelpful it would be if I replied with just that," prompting the question.

 

[skip.knox]

It's a form of pun. Double entendre would work, but that phrase has been shackled to sexual innuendo.

The autism thing is still not cool. I don't even get the intended pun.

BTW, the non-literal definitions for a word is its connotations. The strict definition is the denotation. But I don't think you're after connotations here. The French would (once upon a time) call it a bon mot.

 

[WooHooMan]

It's a form of pun. Double entendre would work, but that phrase has been shackled to sexual innuendo.

Probably more of a pun than a double entendre as the latter would require an implied humorous meaning rather than a stated meaning (if you want to be a comedy snob).

Bon mot could also work but I’d probably just refer to the jokey answer as a “quip”.

 

[cak85]

It's difficult for me to answer this question because I don't really know why you are asking them. Are you writing characters who set each other up like this? It feels very old school humor like Abbot and Costello. Could work if you are writing a novel that places a while back though.

Also to chime in about the autism comment. Several of the middle schoolers I teach have autism and they are ALL very capable of carrying a conversation, where they ask questions and listen to what the other person is saying. Point is - if you are going to use this type of humor, just be aware of people you may upset.

The progressive comment also bothered me because I consider myself to be politically and socially progressive. And I definitely can think for myself.

 

[MrCreativeMight]

I have a feeling that y'all probably don't wanna hear any more about the autism comment, but I have to admit that I take serious offense to this as an individual with autism (and ADHD) who used to be a youtuber who was cyberbullied because of my disabillity, so I deleted my YT channel (even though it's been 4 years, it still haunts me).

I don't mean to make you, the OP angry, and I don't mean to start an argument, but I'm just saying, you just watch yourself. There could be individuals with autism (or other mental disabillities) such as me who could take offense to comments such as this, and especially towards individuals who hate/bully/troll those with disabillities including autism, like those in my story where I was a victim on YT.

Like I said, don't be angry at me, I'm trying to help you become a better person and not make the mistake you made here again. Always watch what you say on the internet.

 

[pmmg]

I think the word I would use is smart-ass. I would call it an attempt to be redirectionally funny, but mostly a waste of my attention span.

 

[cak85]

I think the word I would use is smart-ass. I would call it an attempt to be redirectionally funny, but mostly a waste of my attention span.

Mic drop.

Seriously though - this kind of humor is not really funny. At best you get a groan or an eye-roll as a response and at worst you upset a lot of people.

 

[Electric Bone Flute]

The progressive comment also bothered me because I consider myself to be politically and socially progressive. And I definitely can think for myself.

I think you have hit something; everyone in this thread thinks I'm speaking for myself, with my own thoughts, rather than asking about a pattern of conversational style that I have observed in others.
I am talking about this thing that other people do sometimes in conversation, hence the Q and A format presented in the OP. I am not talking about dialogue in fiction, but real life conversations. I asked this under Writing Discussions because it is a trope of speech that I've identified. It's relevant to writing because I have seen this setup in fiction too, when a child (or otherwise not well-versed character, perhaps an alien) character asks a question and is given this unhelpful answer. To the reader, this is dramatic irony, of course, but it feels like there is more to this instance of dramatic irony.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

This conversation is veering dangerously close to a discussion of real-world politics, which are not welcome on this forum. Either figure out a way to take this back to the realms of fantasy or the thread will be shut down. Thanks.

 

[pmmg]

Just want to add, that I was not trying to call the OP a smart-ass, only that someone using phraseology like that would be, and even that would be in some type of present company (as I know people interact differently with different people, and I can certainly imagine where such might just be usual banter). I would assume this is a question about a character, and that he has characters who interacts this way, so I might be calling his character a smart-ass. But could be it works in the scene. Who knows. The examples used may be able to be made more germane, but I assume we are all adults, I can deal. I'd suggest not letting it be a habit though.

I dont feel this is irony. Since he is looking for a term that encompasses the pattern, I am not sure one exists. I think redirection is a more accurate word. I am not sure any one else would use that term in conversation though. Sarcasm seems to come close.

 

[cak85]

I think you have hit something; everyone in this thread thinks I'm speaking for myself, with my own thoughts, rather than asking about a pattern of conversational style that I have observed in others.
I am talking about this thing that other people do sometimes in conversation, hence the Q and A format presented in the OP. I am not talking about dialogue in fiction, but real life conversations. I asked this under Writing Discussions because it is a trope of speech that I've identified. It's relevant to writing because I have seen this setup in fiction too, when a child (or otherwise not well-versed character, perhaps an alien) character asks a question and is given this unhelpful answer. To the reader, this is dramatic irony, of course, but it feels like there is more to this instance of dramatic irony.

I am sorry, I am still unclear as to why you asked this question in the first place.

I am not completely sure this counts as dramatic irony. Dramatic irony is like when Romeo killed himself because he thought Juliet is dead but she had just taken a sleeping potion.

 

[WooHooMan]

Mic drop.

Seriously though - this kind of humor is not really funny. At best you get a groan or an eye-roll as a response and at worst you upset a lot of people.

Come on, any kind of joke can be funny. It just depends on how it’s done. Even edgy or insulting quips can be funny if done carefully.
In fact, a ton of great jokes and stand-up routines over the decades bank on upsetting people.

Although, this is a thread about the definition of a rhetorical device and not about humor.

 

[cak85]

Come on, any kind of joke can be funny. It just depends on how it’s done. Even edgy or insulting quips can be funny if done carefully.
In fact, a ton of great jokes and stand-up routines over the decades bank on upsetting people.

Fair point. I think the key words you used though are "if done carefully."

 

[WooHooMan]

Fair point. I think the key words you used though are "if done carefully."

I was going to say “done smartly” but I wasn’t sure if that was a word. I was worried “carefully” might seem like you need to walk on eggshells with every gag or avoid anything offensive all together.

If I were the OP, I would have used that example from The Muppets where the two old guys were like “that was a medium sketch: it wasn’t rare and it certainly wasn’t well-done” as it plays off the multiple ways one could use the terms rare and well-done.
And I doubt the thread would be getting upset about how that comment might be offensive to steaks.

Considering how a particular audience might take a joke (or if they’d take it as an insult or an example of a rhetorical device) is part of what I meant when I said “carefully”.

 

[cak85]

I was going to say “done smartly” but I wasn’t sure if that was a word. I was worried “carefully” might seem like you need to walk on eggshells with every gag or avoid anything offensive.

If I were the OP, I would have used that example from The Muppets where the two old guys were like “that was a medium sketch: it wasn’t rare and it certainly wasn’t well-done” as it plays off the multiple ways one could use the terms rare and well-done.
And I doubt the thread would be getting upset about how that comment might be offensive to steaks.

Considering how a particular audience might take a joke (or if they’d take it as an insult or an example of a rhetorical device) is part of what I meant when I said “carefully”.

Also, the jokes would have been better (not good but better) if it was phrased like “what do you call a person that does whatever? Autistic” instead of

Okay, yes the Muppets joke is funny. I did chuckle a little bit.

It is true that there is a forum for offensive or edgy humor. When I was teen I watched a lot of South Park and Family Guy because I thought it was funny but then as I got older, I realized how much they rip on people and that it can perpetuate negative stereotypes of people.

 

[WooHooMan]

Okay, yes the Muppets joke is funny. I did chuckle a little bit.

As you should, those guys were grade A smart assess.

When I was teen I watched a lot of South Park and Family Guy because I thought it was funny but then as I got older, I realized how much they rip on people and that it can perpetuate negative stereotypes of people.

Negative stereotype jokes can be funny. Probably just not your type humor (though I can’t really say Family Guy or South Park are pros at that kind of humor).

But when I was a teen I didn’t find the Chappelle Show funny for that same reason but as I got older, I realized they were mostly stereotype humor done well.

In any case, that’s not what this thread is supposed to be about.

 

[cak85]

As you should, those guys were grade A smart assess.


Negative stereotype jokes can be funny. Probably just not your type humor (though I can’t really say Family Guy or South Park are pros at that kind of humor).

But when I was a teen I didn’t find the Chappelle Show funny for that same reason but as I got older, I realized they were mostly stereotype humor done well.

In any case, that’s not what this thread is supposed to be about.

True. We have done some pretty serious bird walking here.

 

[Chasejxyz]

When it comes to jokes, "punching up" and "punching down" has to be taken into account, as well as the context of the joke. A nonbinary person making a joke like "nonbinary names be like, that's just a verb" will hit different if a cis person makes that joke. (I'm nonbinary and my name is Chase so it do be like that lol). That's why the SNL skit about zoomers using slang went over so poorly, because zoomers didn't write it, and it wasn't for a zoomer audience. The "slang" they were talking about was just AAVE...so it unintentionally turned into "haha black people talk funny" skit, not "haha kids these days don't know how to English" skit that they had intended.

In the context of writing....try not to make jokes that "punch down." Unless, of course, the character making these jokes is supposed to be a crappy person, or it's a joke that only works in your setting and it's some world building. Just make sure it doesn't rely on real-world stereotypes: some sort of Pygmallion-esque joke about dwarves is okay. Jokes about throwing pennies off a cliff and what goblins will do is not.