Zodiacal animals

[Jdailey1991]

If you were to create a zodiacal cast of animals, which ones would you choose and why? You can list as many animals as you'd like.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

I'm not going to do your homework for you, but I will point you in the right direction. Take your geography and cultures into consideration as you world build. (And I think this thread belongs in World Building.) Many real-world cultures have something similar to a zodiac, using local animals and stories. They're often tied to patterns in the stars. So without knowing anything about your fantasy world I can't recommend anything specific.

 

[Jdailey1991]

Who said anything about homework? This is supposed to be a sharing exercise.

 

[Chasejxyz]

BIrds and/or Pleistocene megafauna cause I'm Like That and predictable.

In one project I did have to come up with different monsters for different "planets." Since the "magic" system is based off alchemy and the "planets" were already based off of our reality/the noble metals of alchemy, I had something to go off of. (I say "planets" cause it includes the sun and the moon, but in-text they're all just called planets) I used their colors, names in other languages, stuff about the gods they're based off of...various things to kinda piece things together and see what made sense. They all had to be "monsters" of some sort. In my research in doing that I found that the 12 gates of alchemy (calcination, putrification, digestion, y'know) also corresponded to the western zodiac, so I made up something for that, too. But those were "people"/jobs, like the brewer, the miner, the philosopher-king (which is for the final gate which makes you the philosopher's stone). I picked things that sorta had to do with the chemical process the gate corresponded to (brewer = fermentation). The western zodiac actually ended up having nothing to do with it lol.

 

[Devor]

I'll bite.

Spring: Peacock, Tadpoles, Deer
Summer: Orca, Dragonfly, Otters
Fall: Hedgehog, Owl, Fox
Winter: Wolf, Seal, Penguin

 

[pmmg]

I am sure I could pick random animals to set in place of a zodiac, but if I was trying to make an astrology system for a world I was inventing, I would think these would need to form organically form the cultures I was writing about. I would think two things would need to match up, one) there would need to be an animal or such that was valued by the people, and two) there would need to be something in the sky they could skew somehow into it. It would also need to align with celestial events as well, like the solstice and the equinox. I am not sure my invented people would look up and see a crab, for instance, if there were not crabs on their world (or they have good imaginations). For this to form organically, I would want to have some idea of why they might have arrived at such things in their culture. Otherwise its just a list of random animals.

Though, as an aside, in my current WIP, the sky is difficult to see....

 

[WooHooMan]

What I’m thinking is that I would base the animals of a period of human (elf, dwarf, etc.) civilization.
So the zodiac cycle would probably start with snake as the beginning and end a la ouroboros. Then dragon maybe or some kind of lizard. Then maybe a horse followed by a cow to symbolize nomadic life to pastoral life. Then a lion to represent the earliest monarchs and empires. I’d probably want a goat somewhere in there.
So, that’s like five right there. I’m sure I could come-up with another seven if I really sat down and thought about it but that’s what I got so far.

 

[Devor]

I am sure I could pick random animals to set in place of a zodiac, but if I was trying to make an astrology system for a world I was inventing, I would think these would need to form organically form the cultures I was writing about.

This difference is kind of interesting to me. For me, I didn't think of the Zodiac as a product of a single culture, but as a real magic that exists regardless of culture. Most cultures might not recognize a penguin, and might have all these bad guesses as to what it actually is that they're seeing in the sky and representing whatever branch of personality or magic it might be, but it would factually be a representation of a penguin that they're seeing. Oh well, to each their own.

 

[pmmg]

Assuming these constellations are as vague as our own, its not hard to imagine some looking at the same set of starts and saying, that is a penguin, and another group looking at the same stars saying, no its a seal. And since the stars are so undefined they would be both be right.

But this is an approach of man looking at the stars and giving them value. If it is reversed, and the stars look at man and say this what I am, then I suppose there would be no confusion among cultures. But that is not really how it happens. I suppose it could in a fantasy world, if a God was to say my name is Zues, who are we to argue.

Also, I dont think of them as a single culture either. I am sure many cultures borrow from others, and arrive at something more permanently understood over time.

 

[WooHooMan]

This difference is kind of interesting to me. For me, I didn't think of the Zodiac as a product of a single culture, but as a real magic that exists regardless of culture.

Well, it's kind of tough to say that it's only coincidence that there's overlap between the western and Chinese zodiac. I guess the real question would be what's the objective thing these systems are meant to categorize. Like, the stars and time and junk.

 

[ButlerianHeretic]

So... the list can be interesting, but more importantly IMO, is what is the significance and relationship between the options, and what is their purpose in your world. For example, in my world there are 8 zodiac signs, one for each of the D&D non neutral alignments. Their purpose is to serve as a plot device because for example if the LG planet is in the CE house then Law and Good are weakened and Chaos and Evil are strengthened. Obviously conjunctions of multiple planets in evil alignments are bad. };D> In my world there are 8 months of 45 days each, plus a few feast days that aren't part of the month to keep the math neat and tidy. And the 8 months correspond to the 8 divisions of the year in some neopagan systems, but I'm not explicitly using the neopagan festivals because they don't really fit with the alignment ideas IMO. The evil months are in the winter, the good ones in the summer, and the chaotic ones in spring while the lawful ones are in fall. That is, those months are aligned because those are the times that the sun is in the houses of said alignments, so the power in the world shifts to favor those alignments at those times.

Winter is coming. Muahaha. Sorry, couldn't resist.

In the western and near eastern Zodiac the 12 signs correspond roughly to the 12 months (but they are off because the 4 major divisions of the year by the equinoxes and solstices are roughly on the 22nd of March, June, September, and December but that's because stupid people with big egos establish things and nobody changes them even though they are stupid, but I digress. Also there are 4 each cardinal (assertive), fixed (resolute), and mutable (adaptable) signs, and 3 each signs for each element earth, air, fire, and water. To my knowledge these relationships are not explicitly stated in the Chinese zodiac, but there is significant symbolic overlap between the two sets of signs, for example Aries and Dragon, etc. And there is also seen to be a relationship between every 4th sign, for example Aries, Monkey, and Rat have compatible energies in relationships, and these correspond to the three fire signs in the western zodiac.

Once you have decided what the theme of each sign is, then pick an animal that fits the theme. And it could be that different cultures see different animals. Maybe one culture sees the defensive animal that lashes out at anyone who provokes it as a viper, and another as a scorpion, and yet another as a moray eel or something.

 

[Rosemary Tea]

In the western and near eastern Zodiac the 12 signs correspond roughly to the 12 months (but they are off because the 4 major divisions of the year by the equinoxes and solstices are roughly on the 22nd of March, June, September, and December but that's because stupid people with big egos establish things and nobody changes them even though they are stupid, but I digress. Also there are 4 each cardinal (assertive), fixed (resolute), and mutable (adaptable) signs, and 3 each signs for each element earth, air, fire, and water. To my knowledge these relationships are not explicitly stated in the Chinese zodiac, but there is significant symbolic overlap between the two sets of signs, for example Aries and Dragon, etc. And there is also seen to be a relationship between every 4th sign, for example Aries, Monkey, and Rat have compatible energies in relationships, and these correspond to the three fire signs in the western zodiac.

Actually, astrological signs are defined by solstice and equinox points, not constellations. That isn't an error, that isn't obsolete, that's what it's supposed to be.

Where the sun is at the moment of the March equinox is degree 0 of Aries. Where it is at the moment of the June solstice is degree 0 of Cancer, and at that moment, the sun is exactly overhead at 23 degrees 28 minutes north latitude, which is the tropic of Cancer--that's why it has that name. At the September equinox, the sun is at degree 0 of Libra. At the December solstice, it's at degree 0 of Capricorn, and directly overhead at the tropic of Capricorn: 23 degrees 28 minutes south latitude.

That's how the astrological system was defined originally: not by constellations, but by the solar solstice and equinox points. The rest of the signs were created by dividing the ecliptic (that is, what appears to be the sun's path around the earth, from a geocentric perspective) into 30 degree segments. Taurus begins 30 degrees after the vernal equinox point; Gemini begins 30 degrees after Taurus and ends at the summer solstice point, and so on.

The namesake constellations have a loose association with the signs, but they are not the signs. No matter how the constellations align with the zodiac--once, they lined up more or less exactly, now, they mostly don't--the zodiac doesn't change.

At least, it doesn't in Western astrology. Vedic astrology, the system primarily used in India, uses the same zodiac and also makes each sign exactly 30 degrees, but changes the sign boundaries to align more closely with the constellations. Even the Vedic system doesn't align them 100% accurately, because the namesake constellations of the zodiac are different sizes, some taking up more than 30 degrees of sky and some much less, but it's closer. In Vedic, the solstice and equinox points are not used as sign markers.

The Chinese zodiac isn't based on constellations at all. It's more a timing device. However, its 12 year cycle is based on the cycles of the planet Jupiter, which takes approximately twelve years to move through the whole zodiac, spending about a year in each sign.

In the Western zodiac, the naming of the signs was originally based on seasonal correlations with what was happening locally, in Sumeria where it all began, at the time the constellations were named. Leo was the season of lion migration. Cancer, the time of crabs coming ashore in large numbers to molt. Virgo and Libra are harvest symbols. Scorpio and Gemini appear to have been associated with seasonal celebrations, Sagittarius with hunting season, Aquarius and Pisces with seasonal floods; Aries was sheep mating season (those horny rams!); Taurus probably also a seasonal celebration, involving bulls; Capricorn has an obscure history: while it's currently depicted as a goat, the original Capricorn was a hybrid creature, with the tail of a fish and the front quarters and head of a goat.

So, if you want to create a new list of animals for a zodiac, why not make it about seasonal symbols local to you?

 

[Prince of Spires]

I would go the other way in that there is only 1 zodiacal animal. There is the World Dragon constellation, which spans the whole ecliptic as a dragon chasing its own tail. The important moments of the year are marked by body parts of dragon. The new year begins when the sun moves from tail to head, spring begins when the sun passes the dragon's wings, harvest season is when the sun passes the hind legs of the dragon. That sort of thing.

 

[Rosemary Tea]

I would go the other way in that there is only 1 zodiacal animal. There is the World Dragon constellation, which spans the whole ecliptic as a dragon chasing its own tail. The important moments of the year are marked by body parts of dragon. The new year begins when the sun moves from tail to head, spring begins when the sun passes the dragon's wings, harvest season is when the sun passes the hind legs of the dragon. That sort of thing.

To complicate matters, though, there already is a dragon's head and a dragon's tail in astrology. Those are the eclipse points: where the sun and moon cross the ecliptic at the same time, which happens at two new moons and two full moons per year, roughly six months apart. When one of them is on the dragon's head (eclipse point) and the other is on the dragon's tail (other eclipse point) at a full moon, there's a lunar eclipse. When they both cross one of the eclipse points at a new moon, there's a solar eclipse. Those points are the reason why we don't have eclipses every single full and new moon.

The eclipse points aren't part of the zodiac, they move through the zodiac, which is why eclipses don't happen in the exact same season every year. So the existing dragon's head and dragon's tail can't be used as annual markers, although they do mark celestial events. From an astrologer's perspective, they also have a function in a chart.

 

[Prince of Spires]

That's fun to know I already knew there's a Dragon constellation, but I didn't know about those points.

You could of course pick a different animal. Any animal significant enough to your world culture would do. A dragon would work because of the powerful image attached to it and the fact that its snake-like body is perfect for wrapping around the night sky. Which is how I picked it.

 

[WooHooMan]

Dragon, in western or western-inspired cultures have a connotation with evil or savagery of some kind. I’d almost suggest for something like a griffon. Being a mix between a lion and an eagle implies power and importance. And a flying animal would work with the sky connection.
You could also further divide the body parts between the sky-bound eagle half and the earth-bound lion half.