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Can we talk about adverbs?

piperofyork

Scribe
Many writing guides warn against using adverbs. Although I see how they can be overused or used unnecessarily (when a better verb could replace the verb-adverb pair), I'm far from convinced that adverbs are such villains as the guides make out. In cases where there's no single verb to replace the verb-adverb pair, for example, the adverb adds helpful nuance to the action (or so I tend to think). But maybe I'm missing something. What do you all think about adverb usage?

(By the way, I apologize if this isn't the right place for this thread!)
 

piperofyork

Scribe
For example, "She breathed deeply" seems clear and direct and helpful and informative - at least as much so as "She took a deep breath." I suppose I could try to find another way to paint the same picture, but I'm guessing it would end up being rather convoluted, and sometimes simplicity is desirable. But again, I may be missing something, so I'm eager to hear what you think.
 

Lynea

Sage
One guy I listened to said that you should eliminate as many adverbs as you can, mostly going by whether or not the reader can understand what's going on. Apparently, it's a matter of not offending the reader by assuming they can understand without the adverb in place. I've found that concept pretty helpful. Like, if we already know Joe is angry a sentence before, I wouldn't follow it up with "get out!" Joe said angrily. That's just overdoing it.

But, if the reader isn't aware of a certain mood or nuance, then it might be useful to drop an adverb. It's your job to go through and see if the writing makes sense without it, and if you decide the adverb helps rather than offends, then keep it. :)
 

Chasejxyz

Inkling
There are literally no rules in writing, except "if you do something, you need to have a good reason, and you need to execute it well." TONS of guides (and beginners) parrot lines like "Never use passive voice! Never use adverbs! Never start your story with your character waking up!" The reason why you're not "supposed" to do those things is that they frequently lead to weaker writing, but not always. A very obvious example is dialogue. Characters are going to use adjectives or passive voice. It would be really dumb to force your characters to speak in the same exact voice/tone as your narrator, it removes the, well, character from your characters. It makes everyone sound the same, which isn't something you generally want.

Or maybe it is! You do want everyone to talk in the same very formal, always grammatically "correct" voice. So how does that support your story? How does that help what you're trying to accomplish? And does it actually do that? Maybe your story is set in a society where it's legally required to always have perfect grammar, so therefore everyone speaks with perfect grammar. But do they think that way? Do they slip when they're in private? What do you do with little kids who are still learning the rules of grammar?

The "issue" with adverbs is that they're an extra word and can usually be replaced with a stronger verb. But not always. "Usually" is an adverb, is there a way you can rewrite that sentence without using "usually" ? Is there really a verb out there that means "to replace with something most of the time, but not always" ? I highly doubt it, and if it does exist, most of your readers aren't going to know it, so if you're writing a book for kids or YA audiences, you now have a totally new problem to contend with. The number of words (or syllables) in a sentence, paragraph, line of dialogue, that all affects the pace/flow, sometimes you want more words to slow things down, an adverb can help with that.

If you're on a crusade to remove adverbs, do that in editing. If you're enforcing all these style guidelines (because, ultimately, that's what this is) on yourself when you're writing the first draft, then you're making it way harder than it has to be, which is going to hamper your ability to finish that draft. You want to make it as easy as possible to write that first draft. Like look at this, look at my posts, they're pretty terrible. They're overly verbose yet the style is hyper-casual. I'm fast and loose with grammar to replicate a more casual, words coming from my mouth style. Compare that to my writing that actually matters (business emails, my novels) and it's like night and day. People are usually very surprised to see the huge difference and that's all thanks to editing! And keeping in mind whatever style guidelines I'm using for the piece. That's when I sit down and say "okay do I NEED all these words in this sentence? Do I even need this sentence? Is there a better verb I could be using?" Sometimes that comes to axing adverbs, other times I figure out there's not a good way to re-write the sentence to be adverb-free that doesn't also make it dumb/out of place compared to the rest of the text.
 
"She breathed deeply" makes me think.. "of what?" :) so its actually not as clear as you might think. since adverbs can be used in conjunction with a prepositional phrase.. it feels left out and lonely when you stop there. "She breathed deeply of the dark vapors"

or easier example: He ducked. He ducked quickly. He ducked quickly into the bathroom. The adverb invites more detail.. and if you give it, then fine. if you don't then it feels left hung out to dry, so to speak.

so as above, overuse of adverbs invites "sloppy" writing that seems to lack the details to justify the additional modifications. I am just giving one example, but its all over the place.
 
There are places where adverbs really belong. Modifying tone of voice is one of them. It isn't necessary in most dialogue - "he said x," and, "she said y" is usually enough - but if the situation calls for someone to speak sternly or gently, or maybe angrily, putting the adverb in really brings out the mood.
 

Chasejxyz

Inkling
There are places where adverbs really belong. Modifying tone of voice is one of them. It isn't necessary in most dialogue - "he said x," and, "she said y" is usually enough - but if the situation calls for someone to speak sternly or gently, or maybe angrily, putting the adverb in really brings out the mood.

I'd argue that, more often than not, there's probably a better verb you can use when it comes to dialogue. Or some other thing you can do. Examples:

"Absolutely not," he said sternly.
vs
"Absolutely not," he snapped.
vs
He snapped his book closed. "Absolutely not."
vs
A pause. I tried to read his face, looking for some sign things would go my way. But, as always, his expression was as stony as his heart.
"Absolutely not," he said.

#2 is good if you want a quick pace. #3 is good if you feel like you're using too many dialogue tags or you want to show actions during the conversation (what people are doing when they're talking/thinking is a great way to do characterization). #4 is the wordy-est, but it also shows more about the relationship between the narrator and [whoever]. (I know the last bit is kind of cringe but this is just an example I made up on the spot so whatever).
 
I'd argue that, more often than not, there's probably a better verb you can use when it comes to dialogue. Or some other thing you can do. Examples:

"Absolutely not," he said sternly.
vs
"Absolutely not," he snapped.
vs
He snapped his book closed. "Absolutely not."
vs
A pause. I tried to read his face, looking for some sign things would go my way. But, as always, his expression was as stony as his heart.
"Absolutely not," he said.
In that context, you're right, having the character snap his reply, or do something snappish, makes more sense. I was thinking of a scene I recently wrote where a character delivers a scolding - so speaking "sternly" is what really conveys that, and they get even sterner at certain points in the dialog - but then becomes gentle when the recipient of the scolding reacts by becoming contrite. Using those adverbs conveys the emotional tone of that scene. The shift in tone also conveys that the scolding character isn't just hard and authoritarian, there's some sensitivity and warmth there as well.

In your scene, it sounds like the character is annoyed. That's a somewhat different mood. Or, in the last example, that he's coldly and inflexibly authoritarian (adverbs right there!). The first, where he responds "sternly," could help convey the same image as the last example, depending on what else the character does, but it also leaves the possibility open that he's warmer than that.
 
I think its objective vs subjective sometimes. "sternly" is objective.. but boring- very much narration. Scolded, is subjective but more textured- and evokes a feeling.

so you could say:

"Absolutely not," he scolded.

which gives me a stronger image than "sternly"

So again, the rule to use adverbs carefully is not a terrible one, and I don't say this glibly. (hehe)
 
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piperofyork

Scribe
Thank you everyone, I appreciate your thoughts on the matter. I'm leaning towards the idea that use of adverbs can be reasonable if the surrounding narrative has filled in - or will fill in - the sorts of blanks that some are saying are best filled in by avoiding adverbs. But I'm still thinking about it all, too. In fact, I can say with confidence that I will be thinking about it muchly.
 
To experiment, you could try writing a scene without adverbs and see how it looks. If getting it free of adverbs the first time is too difficult (I know I'd find it so), go through after you've written it and remove all the adverbs.

It might be stronger, it might fall flat, or it might be anything else.
 

Chasejxyz

Inkling
I think a good thing to point out is that most people think of adverbs as words ending in -ly...but that's not always the case. Here/there, yesterday, often and even even are adverbs! So writing something without ANY adverbs would be...incredibly difficult (but could be a fun challenge). It's like people who say "I don't use pronouns because I'm not trans" don't seem to realize that who/what/this/that/these/those are also pronouns.

The -ly pronouns seem to stick out more, in my unprofessional opinion, so using a bunch of them might stick out and come off as weird. But anything used too much will look weird, so it's not just an adverb thing.
 

Devor

Fiery Keeper of the Hat
Moderator
In my opinion worrying about adverbs is a red herring, and a waste of energy. That isn't to say that you aren't using too many of them or whatever. But if you're thinking, "Okay, I have eighty thousand words and it's time to edit. What do I need to do?" Well, going through it to cut adverbs is like busywork. Structure. Delivery. Flow. Get to the stuff that matters.
 

Devor

Fiery Keeper of the Hat
Moderator
"She breathed deeply" makes me think.. "of what?" :) . . . . "She breathed deeply of the dark vapors"

^This was my reaction too.

"Absolutely not," he said sternly.
vs
"Absolutely not," he snapped.
vs
He snapped his book closed. "Absolutely not."
vs
A pause. I tried to read his face, looking for some sign things would go my way. But, as always, his expression was as stony as his heart.
"Absolutely not," he said.

What about: "Absolutely not," he snapped, but softly because he was in a library.

I find that it's usually a good idea to make decisions based on strong examples instead of weak ones. I've been editing and tweaking that last sentence a few times and I can't find a friendlier way to phrase it right now. But writing doesn't begin and end with a dialogue tag. There's a lot that you can do with even something like an adverb. If you're going through a phase where they're bugging you, then try experimenting with them. Find that better way to use them. Decide for yourself why some things work or don't.

But then - and this is important - move on. Don't get hung up on it. Play with them, decide what you like or not about them, and get to the next topic.
 
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I think a good thing to point out is that most people think of adverbs as words ending in -ly...
Ha, that reminds me of when I discovered the joys of Mad Libs, around the age of nine. I tried playing with my sister, three years younger - she was about six at the time - and naturally, she didn't know the parts of speech yet. It was easy enough to explain what verbs and nouns are, but when I asked for an adverb, she had no idea what that was. So, I explained that it's a word that ends in -ly.

My sister supplied, "Mary Lee."
 

Ankari

Hero Breaker
Moderator
I'd argue that, more often than not, there's probably a better verb you can use when it comes to dialogue. Or some other thing you can do. Examples:

"Absolutely not," he said sternly.
vs
"Absolutely not," he snapped.
vs
He snapped his book closed. "Absolutely not."
vs
A pause. I tried to read his face, looking for some sign things would go my way. But, as always, his expression was as stony as his heart.
"Absolutely not," he said.

#2 is good if you want a quick pace. #3 is good if you feel like you're using too many dialogue tags or you want to show actions during the conversation (what people are doing when they're talking/thinking is a great way to do characterization). #4 is the wordy-est, but it also shows more about the relationship between the narrator and [whoever]. (I know the last bit is kind of cringe but this is just an example I made up on the spot so whatever).

All four of your examples differ from one another.

1) He is speaking with authority.
2) He is angered or surprised.
3) He is agitated, excited, or rushed.
4) He is distant and unreadable.

The quest to change an adverb shouldn't change the information you want to share with the reader.

To the matter of adverbs. The guideline exists because writers transitioning from the normal layman communication to the more extensive authorial expression tend to revert back to the quickest method (former) instead of the clearer method (latter). The guideline exists to train writers to think with their author brain instinctively. Once the writer can do this, then they should develop a proficiency in choosing when to or when not to use adverbs.

Adverbs serve to quicken the expressed information.
Lack of adverbs tend to focus on the the details, slow down the information to the reader.

Determine what you want to communicate and chose accordingly.
 

Penpilot

Staff
Article Team
One of the skills a writer must acquire is the ability to know when to use something and when not to. This applies to everything in writing. Regardless of what "rules" you come across, there will always be situations where breaking that so called rule will be the best choice. Never follow blindly. Understand why that "rule" exists, so you know why you're using it and why you aren't.

Anything taken to the extreme can be very bad, and IMHO, never using a set of words EVER is an extreme.

Adverbs in themselves aren't bad, but each time one is used, one should always double check on the next draft and think about if that is exactly how you want to phrase things. As mentioned above, there may very well be a better verb or better way to phrase things.

One might write "He walked slowly." Seems simple enough, right? But depending on the mood, and what emotion you want to convey, you might say "He moseyed" or "He meandered" or you might want take the time to paint the picture.

Initially one might write. He walked slowly as if he didn't have a care in the world. We were supposed to be at the restaurant five minutes ago, but as far as he was concerned, my Mom could wait. The less time spent with her the better.

It's not horrible, but IMHO, this would be better. He took two steps then paused to window-shop at an antique doll store. He took the time to feign interest with each and every doll on display, going as far as to read each of their names on their name tags aloud then nod an exaggerated approval. When he was done with the antique doll store, he smirked at me and then wandered down two storefronts and did something similar at the umbrella shop. When he started to whistle, I wanted to mush his face into the glass. We were definitely going to be late for dinner with my Mom.
 

Stevie

Minstrel
He walked slowly as if he didn't have a care in the world. We were supposed to be at the restaurant five minutes ago, but as far as he was concerned, my Mom could wait. The less time spent with her the better.

It's not horrible, but IMHO, this would be better. He took two steps then paused to window-shop at an antique doll store. He took the time to feign interest with each and every doll on display, going as far as to read each of their names on their name tags aloud then nod an exaggerated approval. When he was done with the antique doll store, he smirked at me and then wandered down two storefronts and did something similar at the umbrella shop. When he started to whistle, I wanted to mush his face into the glass. We were definitely going to be late for dinner with my Mom.

See, I think the first version is far better because it gets to the heart of the matter a lot faster and feels much more as if I'm in the character's head. This is why I love writing.

When it comes to adverbs, I'd say avoid putting them in dialogue tags at all costs. The rest of the time, treat them like ghost naga chillis. They can be used to great effect, so hold them back for that. "To boldly go where no man has gone before," still remains my favourite use of an adverb. And it's a split inifinitive, which makes it even better. Rock through the front window of the grammar watchdog's store.
 
Readers don't care. If your writing is good then readers will just keep reading and buying. For proof, look no further then the best selling book series of all time, Harry Potter. J.K. Rowling uses adverbs all over the place, including in dialogue tags and she holds several records in terms of sales.

The thing to keep in mind that it all comes down to execution. If you use them simply because you're lazy and there would be better words to use then use those. If your style is one where moseyed or meandered sounds great then use those, otherwise there is nothing wrong with walked slowly. As Ankari showed, changing the words changes the meaning, and if the adverb conveys the exact meaning you need then use that.
 
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