Top 10 Stereotypes in Fantasy?

[Ankari]

Are you saying that Martin's characters are realistic, or historically accurate? I would agree that they act in a very realistic human way (sometimes even too much... do I really need to know every time someone drips bacon grease on their chin?), but I would not say that his characters are always socially or relationally accurate to a Medieval setting.

They are not completely accurate, but you can see many norms and realities of the middle ages in the Seven Kingdoms. Even the most outlandish cultures seem to be an exaggeration or modification of some culture found in the world during the middle ages.

 

[Mindfire]

1. The One Chick Who Is Always Right. (Leia, Arwen, Katara, Cheetara, Princess Cimorene, Wendy from Peter Pan, etc.)
2. The mentor who instructs the hero and helps him to reach his true potential- AND THEN DIES.
3. The woman who pretends to be a man.
4. The warrior chick who will only sleep with a man who can defeat her in single combat.
4b. The amazonian society who despise all men, except the hero, whose pants they greatly desire to gain entrance to.
5. Evil Emperors always die. Evil Empresses may be offered a chance for redemption.
6. The hero who refuses to strike a woman... even when said woman has absolutely no qualms with stabbing him in the face.
7. Everything MUST be done the hard way. No exceptions.

 

[Kenneth Logan Jr.]

I don't mind the modern sensibilities if that's what an author wants to include. I like the other sensibilities (e.g. Conan) as well. I don't think you really need an explanation for the modern actions and sensibilities of the characters. I think you'd get bogged down in a needless aside trying to pinpoint exactly how all that arises in a medieval setting, and it would also end up being framed in the context of the real medieval setting on earth and how the fantasy setting differs in a way that allows modern sensibilities. But a fantasy world, even one having a medieval level of technology, does not have to reflect to sensibilities or morals of that of earth's history to begin with, so if it deviates from it I don't think it has to be justified.

Just a thought or two.

That's a good point!

 

[Ailith]

They are not completely accurate, but you can see many norms and realities of the middle ages in the Seven Kingdoms. Even the most outlandish cultures seem to be an exaggeration or modification of some culture found in the world during the middle ages.

Right - Martin took selected aspects of a Medieval society, other authors use different aspects. Exaggerating, tweaking, and mixing is what makes it fantasy. I just don't think Martin is breaking ground in this area, or being more historically accurate than many other writers (more realistic, on the other hand, yes). I love his books - and part of the reason for that is his well thought out world.

 

[Ailith]

1. The One Chick Who Is Always Right. (Leia, Arwen, Katara, Cheetara, Princess Cimorene, Wendy from Peter Pan, etc.)

YES! One of my favorite episodes of Avatar is the Ember Island Players. The characters see a play based on them, and they are all terribly exaggerated - which highlights Katara's role as the "one chick who is always right." (and a little emotional...)

Mindfire, you're going to make me tear-bend from laughing so hard at your list.

 

[Ankari]

and part of the reason for that is his well thought out world.

And that is my point. Its more thought out. It takes human motives, whether they are individual or collective, into account. It creates flawed heroes that indulge in their desires and villains that adhere to a strict moral code. It takes into account that a women traveling alone through a war torn country is an easy target and should have a chaperon. It speaks of arranged marriages and princes that seek the pleasing of the heart over their house. The list goes on and on.

This stuff is real and you don't find it in many fantasy novels. All I am saying that that the most believable lie has the most truth in it. For me, fantasy is the same. The most believable fantasy story has the most realistic aspects in it, especially in reference to character and cultural development.

 

[Ailith]

All I am saying that that the most believable lie has the most truth in it.

Well said

 

[Ankari]

1. The One Chick Who Is Always Right. (Leia, Arwen, Katara, Cheetara, Princess Cimorene, Wendy from Peter Pan, etc.)
2. The mentor who instructs the hero and helps him to reach his true potential- AND THEN DIES.
4. The warrior chick who will only sleep with a man who can defeat her in single combat.
4b. The amazonian society who despise all men, except the hero, whose pants they greatly desire to gain entrance to.
5. Evil Emperors always die. Evil Empresses may be offered a chance for redemption.
6. The hero who refuses to strike a woman... even when said woman has absolutely no qualms with stabbing him in the face.
7. Everything MUST be done the hard way. No exceptions.

To get back on track....

Those were funny. Number 6 made me think of Rand Al Thor and how, as a teenager, I was angry at him for being stupid when Moraine died because he "refused to hit a girl." In this case it was Lanfear and she was trying to kill him. Number 7 is funny because its always true.

 

[Legendary Sidekick]

1. The MC doesn't have any experience in combat, but somehow manages to avoid making phenomenally bad decisions that get lots of his own guys killed.
2. 3 vs. 300. The 3 win.
3. The reader must know the sexual history of the female lead. Virgin, slut, widow, former prostitute, sexual abuse victim, or still can't let go of her only former lover who either died or became one of the top three antagonists? If you don't know yet, wait 5 pages.
4. The scoundrel is TOLD as having a history of doing scoundrelly things, but he's SHOWN as being a really selfless guy who's ready to give up his life of philandering, murder, and farting at the table in mixed company, and the only thing he's smuggling now is the heart of gold in his ribcage.
5. The MC and his friends are lovable. Even when they're chopping up orcs and making jokes about it, don't you just love their cute banter?
6. Rapists or would-be rapists get hit below the belt in such a way that something comes off. I'm not complaining about this one, to be honest. Just saying the torso is an easier target.
7. The good guy is at a tavern and his very presence results in a drunken brawl. He says, "I'm not looking for trouble." Well, what the hell is he doing in a tavern then?
8. The hero says something. Another good guy doesn't listen; therefore, he dies.
9. The hero is the only useful person in the party. Everyone else is meat waiting to die.
10. There's a little kid. This is the only character who is guaranteed to not die.

 

[Devor]

There's a little kid. This is the only character who is guaranteed to not die.

Ha! I've a story where I killed the kid. And I made the good guy do it.

*sigh* I'm never getting rid of that "barbarian" tag.

 

[Legendary Sidekick]

Nice! That's what he gets for being a kid in a medieval fantasy, thinking he can play with swords and make all the schoolgirls scream when he tells them what an intestine looks like.

But... did anyone besides Reaver call you a barbarian? I imagine you talk like Peter Dinklage.

 

[Rhi Paille]

You guys are AWESOME.

On another note, my YA Fantasy novel does contain some stereotypes, but if it didn't, it wouldn't be fantasy or YA. Ha, amusing how that works huh?

 

[Mindfire]

Ha! I've a story where I killed the kid. And I made the good guy do it.

*sigh* I'm never getting rid of that "barbarian" tag.

What Legendary Sidekick should have said was: "There's a little kid. This is the only character who is guaranteed to not die- unless the author is a soulless monster."

 

[Rhi Paille]

Also, I may just leave this panel open forum and let the people attending have at it. We could likely come up with a lot!

Here's my top 10:

1) There's ALWAYS a prophecy.
1b) That prophecy is always revealed at the beginning of the story and by the end of the story it's been fulfilled.
2) The nobody hero of the story is found by the wizard or wise man or whatever.
3) There's ALWAYS a pretty girl the Hero can't have.
4) Someone is drinking mead, or having a contest about who can drink the most mead.
5) No matter what the Hero goes through he never stops being the Hero.
6) It's always an impossible quest for the holy grail, or some item like the holy grail. (even Harry Potter)
7) The Hero is the ONLY one who can stop the catastrophe and they have some awesome power awaken at the last second to do it.
8) Someone always plays the fool, jester or the part of comic relief.
9) The villain monologues, saying what he will do but never does it.
10) The villain always loses.

What am I guilty of doing you say? After reading this:

1) Characters manipulating fire (because it's the easiest element to manipulate telekinetically)
2) A Quest (in book two and it's sort of by default. Krishani refuses to be what the elders want him to be and instead goes on his quest.)
3) Yeah there are Elders, but they're not Wizards. (just elders . . . warriors, or lorekeepers, or Lords.)
4) Yes there are Elvens, and yes they're smart. (but they can't actually fall in love, it's unheard of for them.)
5) Both my MC's are chosen ones. (but one of them has been chosen to follow death as a Ferryman and the other is considered chosen but turns out to be a cataclysmic weapon that could cause the apocalypse.)

And I agree with EVERYONE regarding the historical part comments. I did a lot of research, into celtic myth, norse myth, customs and traditions, not to mention time lines, all BEFORE I moved my characters from their high fantasy home on the island of Avristar (which also had well thought out customs, topography, factions, etc.) to Terra (Earth in 7000BCE, Scotland)

*cough* I also have a lot of trouble reading any epic/high fantasy despite writing it.

*sigh* I'm going to start a new thread.

 

[Legendary Sidekick]

You guys are AWESOME.

On another note, my YA Fantasy novel does contain some stereotypes, but if it didn't, it wouldn't be fantasy or YA. Ha, amusing how that works huh?

No worries. I'm guilty of half my list.

Exceptions:

I'm too pro-sidekick to do this...

9. The hero is the only useful person in the party.

And I once went out of my way to defy this...

1. The MC doesn't have any experience in combat, but somehow manages to avoid making phenomenally bad decisions that get lots of his own guys killed.

...by writing this...

(Info dump: MC is really hard to kill. The demon is a football-field-sized yellow eye that hovers high in the air and controls an army of possessed men. There's a healer named Sloth.)


“Archers!” I shout. “Fire at the demon eye on my command!”

One archer snaps, “Who died and made you boss?”

Another points to a dead archer by the wall and whispers, “He did.”

The first archer holds his hat over his heart.

Oh dear. “Yeah, guys... uh, sorry about your commanding officer. But we can avenge him by firing at the demon eye on my command!”

The archers cheer and fire their arrows straight up in the air without awaiting my command. But as long as they all shoot at the same time, it’s just as effective.

Oh.

Which is to say, the arrows are ineffective.

None of them even reach the demon. And now the arrows are heading down toward us. One bounces off my head... I can only guess where several others end up.

I notice Sloth sadly shaking his head. “I can save most of them.”

“Aw, c’mon! My idea can’t get people killed!”

 

[Benjamin Clayborne]

You can take the example of The Wheel of Time. In all respects, the Two Rivers is like any picturesque village of the middle ages. Yet they don't blink an eye when three unmarried men and three unmarried women leave their village? No chaperon?

I'm going to nitpick here, so if any readers aren't interested in minute debates about the Wheel of Time, feel free to skip this post.

I don't know how long it's been since you've read The Eye of the World, but they blink quite a lot of eyes when the kids leave Emond's Field.

For one thing, the village was attacked by Trollocs and a Myrddraal, which up until that point everyone in town had considered to be mythical nonsense. (Well, everyone except a couple of people, like Tam al'Thor, who had been out to the wider world.) An Aes Sedai (Moiraine) is there to explain what happened and point out that it might be best if the targets of the attack (Rand, Mat, Perrin) leave the village. Ignorant backwoods villagers don't argue with Aes Sedai. Egwene goes because Moiraine determines that Egwene can channel, and while Tar Valon is a long ways from Emond's Field, it's not really something you can turn down; the White Tower insists that all female channelers be brought to the Tower for, at least, basic training. Egwene's parents are worried about her, but she wants to go, and everyone's freaked out by the Trolloc attack.

Second, I'm not sure who you mean by "three unmarried women," as there's only two (unless you're counting Moiraine, but she's 42 years old at that point in the story, and in any event is not from Emond's Field). "No chaperone" isn't true in any sense–Nynaeve chases after them later and catches up pretty quick, and she (being the village's Wisdom) functions as a chaperone (even though she's not especially effective at it). There's also three full-grown adults with the party: Moirane Damodred, Lan Mandragoran (her Warder), and Thom Merrilin, a gleeman. As far as the villagers are concerned, the kids are well-protected.

 

[Jabrosky]

Elves are graceful and revering of nature.

I've always hated stereotypical fantasy elves such as those. They are the Gary Stus of fantasy races because they're supposed to be so superior at everything. On the other hand, I've always felt sorry for orcs and never liked it that they were traditionally cast as the bad guys.

I once wrote a story (which you can view here if you're interested) in which the elves were the bad guys and orcs the more sympathetic faction. The human protagonists start fighting in service of the elves at first, but later switch sides after a conflict of consciences.

 

[Ankari]

It has been a long time since I read The Eye of the World, so thanks for the refresher. But even in your breakdown you still have three unmarried women (with Nynaeve being the third I had in mind) and three unmarried men going along with someone they do not trust (Moraine). Nynaeve can hardly be considered a chaperon because a) she's unmarried and b) she wasn't sent, she followed. An unmarried country village woman running off into the wild with Trollocs and Mydraal about!

I completely forgot about Thom and Lan being there as well. So eventually you have 3 unmarried women from the village around 5 unmarried men! What?

Your post just reminds me that I should reread that book. The first 4 in the series were great.

 

[ArielFingolfin]

I like to play a game called I Spy an Expendable character. Usually it's pretty easy to guess who's going to die, and you know their death is going to push the hero to limits he never before would have reached.

Speaking of the hero, why must he almost always be a man?

 

[JBryden88]

I think I might have one stereotype in total for my current project.

That's the mentor.

Except he isn't eccentric, he's not too old (middle aged), and he's not destined to die, and is quite imperfect, and by the end his relationship with the main character has become so frayed they might even be close to becoming enemies >.>