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Ditching Romance and Sexual Tension

Kit

Maester
I think people value relationships more than, necessarily, romance. A relationship doesn't have to be romantic. Look at, for example, the TV show Supernatural. The primary relationship in that show is between two brothers. Not that half the fandom doesn't choose to interpret that as romantic, but the fact is, the show does fine without any long-lasting romances (indeed, the only recurring romances, one for each brother, were received poorly by the fans). People enjoy strong friendships, parental bonds, sibling bonds, and other sorts of romantic bonds (such as pre-established couples),

One aspect of this that we see in fantasy fiction so often that it's now cliche is the familar (by any other name). Anne McCaffrey's dragons and fire lizards, Misty Lackey's Companions, Jennifer Roberson's lirs, Gayle Greeno's Ghattis... on and on. People eat it up... they want that lifelong unconditional love bond.
 

Penpilot

Staff
Article Team
That's the problem with having all good-looking MCs. Write ugly bastards and saggy women and no one will want a love scene to happen, trust me.

Maybe this could all be resolved by writing with MCs as Trolls and Goblins. :p

In all seriousness, this viewpoint is kind of... sad? Like, I went a solid year of my life with nothing but male friends and never so much as crushed on a single one of 'em, let alone started up a relationship. Not because they weren't attractive or I was into somebody else, I just never ended up liking any of them like that. My main group of friends in high school was three girls and a guy, and none of us ever liked the guy, and as far as I know, he never had a crush on any of us. Not saying it never happens - of course it does - but in a group of three guys and a girl, there's really no guarantee any of them would do anything more than make a couple of sexist jokes before moving on to the barwenches in the local tavern.

I'm not saying there can't be a completely platonic group of guys and gals in real life, but in the real world romance exists outside of a group. But I'm talking about a story. A story, and the story world as a whole, should contain basic elements that make it feel full and complete. And if one of those elements that should be there, like romance, is missing for too long, people will notice and may fill in those elements by drawing conclusions based on whatever random connections they think they see in the text even if the reader knows that's not what the author intended. Right or wrong, that does happen. It may not happen to everyone, but the possibility is there and can spoil a story for some. As I've said before, absence of romance in one book can easily work, but over a series, if it's not present in even the smallest form, like in side characters. I have strong doubts as to how well it would work. But who knows, anything can work if written well.
 

Amanita

Maester
Anne McCaffrey's dragons and fire lizards, Misty Lackey's Companions, Jennifer Roberson's lirs, Gayle Greeno's Ghattis... on and on. People eat it up...
Well, call it childish, or girlish or anything of that sort, but this kind of thing does appeal many people dealing with animals be it horses, dogs or others myseld not excluded even though they (hopefully) know it isn't realistic at some point. :D
But back to romance between humans: Lord of the Rings for example hardly hat any and was successful enough. Especially if there's an all male (or all female) setting, most people not starting homosexual relationships would be quite realistic in my opinion.
As I had mentioned above, the fact that the two people without any romantic interest in each other are getting married later is the problem in the set up described here. I don't want to attack you or anything, but I do think that annoying fans of certain stories should not be a goal in one's writing. There's no use in that at all, and I think your story would be aimed at someone else anyway.
If you want to avoid romace because you're uncomfortable with writing about lust or explicit sex (maybe for religious reasons), there's really no reason to describe this with anything more than hints. Many books do well without explicit sex and those that do include often aren't better for it. A few remarks about how they start caring for other in a special way, can imagine the other as father or mother of their children or anything along those lines can be done as well. This way, you'll make it clear that there's something going on between those two but you still don't have to write anything your uncomfortable with and later, when they're married you don't have to either.
 
That's the problem with having all good-looking MCs. Write ugly bastards and saggy women and no one will want a love scene to happen, trust me.

I actually sprayed wine from nose and lips when I read that.

When I first started writing seriously (almost 20 years ago) I never would have considered myself a romance writer on any level. My books are...fairly unique. But they do have romance in them...and sex. It just somehow happened because I got so deeply into my characters and that's where they took me.

Looking back over my completed novels (two published...one in production) there's a surprising amount of sex (given the genres and subject matter). In fact, I regard myself as a bit of an expert on the bonk scene these days. If I haven't already written this on this forum, my bonk scene rules are as follows:

- the reader must desperately want them to do it
- the action must on at least two levels be somehow otherwise relevant to the plot or characterisation (preferably both); and
- the scene must be different from every other bonk scene in the history of literature.

I suspect that in the past, love and sex were less necessary in literature, but there is so much more realism expected of writers these days, and humans (or at least their literary manifestations) are naturally attracted to perfect manifestations of love.

Modern readers expect their characters to be whole.
 
In my writing, I make a point of avoiding romance and sexual tension, mostly for pragmatic reasons. Namely: I can't write either of them very well. But if I'm being totally honest, I'm also being a bit of a troll. I despise love triangles, token romances, and the like.

I usually include romances, but that's because I like them, being a romantic and all. Plus, I've been told I'm pretty good at writing them.

My first question is, simply put, do readers "expect" romance and sexual tension? Is it something that a writer is "obligated" to include, is only for believability's sake, or can it be swept under the rug? If it can be ignored, should it? I know a lot of this will "depend on the audience", but I'm looking for a fairly general answer. (But not "it's up to you" kind of answers. General ≠ vague.) I'm interested to know who cares (or doesn't care) about these things.

Well, on one hand, people don't just fall in love simply because they have compatible sexual orientations and happen to find each other agreeable. On the other hand, human beings are naturally drawn to each other and people do fall in love quite frequently.

If you don't want a subplot focusing on your MCs falling love, you certainly don't have to. But if nobody in your story ever shows any romantic inclinations whatsoever, readers might see that as a flaw in your writing. It may come across as unrealistic, even a bit juvenile in a "I don't want any touchy-kissy-girly feelings in my awesome adventure story!" kind of way.

Also, I think a considerable percentage of readers do expect romances - that's where shipping comes from; some people will even see romances where there is no romance. It's pretty much human nature. You can ignore that or even try to discourage it, but don't expect that to work. Personally, I embrace it, because people wouldn't be doing it they didn't enjoy it.

My second question is a bit more specific to my work. In my WIP there is a female character who becomes a friend to the protagonist. In most books she would probably be the love interest, but I decided to eschew that in favor of a platonic friendship devoid of sexual tension. Over time (years) their friendship does deepen into love and they get married... but it happens between books. By book two they're married and relatively settled. (Well as settled as a tribal warrior family can be.) Will the reader (especially a female reader) feel "cheated" that I skipped over their romantic development? I know I personally wouldn't mind (the Star Wars prequels would have been greatly improved if the Padme/Anakin thing happened between movies instead of on the screen), but my perspective is limited.

You know, don't take this the wrong way, but I'm sorta getting the feeling you are simply not very confident in your ability to portray a realistic romance. That is, you're worried you'll end up being George Lucas going on about how the girl isn't like sand. I mean, this isn't really the best example to use. :p

Keep in mind we are talking about a guy who uses corny dialogue and wooden acting on purpose, because he likes it that way. You're going to have to be pretty terrible to compete with that.

Anyway, to adress your story: If their relationship did feel entirely platonic in the first part, I think a lot of readers would call What The Hell on that and feel cheated. That's a ton of character development you basically just skipped over because you didn't feel like writing it. I hope you can see why your readers might have a problem with that.

Still, you have to really go out of your way to establish a relationship between a man and a woman as platonic, really spell it out, because otherwise people will see the potential of romance between them. In fact, some may do that anyway. (See above: Shipping.)

My advice is to at least try to imply a budding romance between the two. You don't have to have them yell "I love you!" at each other or anything. Just, you know, show them growing closer; have them make small diplays of affection and admiration to one another, and let us know that they are actually heading into romance territory.
 

Ireth

Myth Weaver
If you don't want a subplot focusing on your MCs falling love, you certainly don't have to. But if nobody in your story ever shows any romantic inclinations whatsoever, readers might see that as a flaw in your writing. It may come across as unrealistic, even a bit juvenile in a "I don't want any touchy-kissy-girly feelings in my awesome adventure story!" kind of way.

But what if romance simply doesn't factor into the story one wants to tell? To take an example from one of my own novels: two of the main characters are a pair of middle-aged brothers who are searching for the younger brother's kidnapped daughter. The older brother, Dom, is a bachelor: the younger, Vincent, is a widower. On the course of their quest they come across a prominent female character who helps them. Neither of the men have any attraction to her, though they do acknowledge her as beautiful, and she does not harbor attraction to either of them.

By your logic, then, my story might seem "flawed" because neither of the men nor the woman wants to bonk or even steal a kiss from a member of the other sex. They are strictly focused on finding Vincent's daughter; even if they did feel that way, they don't have TIME for anything else. The three of them are only together for a few days during the second half of the book, which would not be enough time for a real romance to develop. Even though the book does take place in Faerie, I'm not writing a fairytale. The whole point of the main plot is that Faerie and the Fae are largely not nice and sparkly like so many authors would have one believe.
 

Mindfire

Istar
You know, don't take this the wrong way, but I'm sorta getting the feeling you are simply not very confident in your ability to portray a realistic romance. That is, you're worried you'll end up being George Lucas going on about how the girl isn't like sand.

Yeah, that's pretty much it. lol Thanks for your help.
 
I'm glad I'm not the only one considering skipping this. My first draft of my current novel had a scene where two characters confessed their love for each other and I think it was ridiculous. I start the second draft after they're already married with children.

Also, I was going to have a big part of the plot focus on the MMC's failed relationship with a girl who runs off with a cult, and decided to drop it. The two current main characters do have plenty of reasons to be very attracted to each other, and maybe it's mostly trollishness that has me looking for ways to defy the expectation of their intellectually-based friendship (they're fellow students) turning into a romance. Thing is, she is very attractive according to their culture's standards, and he notices it. I thought about making him asexual, but his aunt already is, so unless asexuality runs in families I don't think I can get away with that. There's already a gay character and I'm not into writing many of those, sorry.
 

Mindfire

Istar
I'm glad I'm not the only one considering skipping this. My first draft of my current novel had a scene where two characters confessed their love for each other and I think it was ridiculous. I start the second draft after they're already married with children.

Also, I was going to have a big part of the plot focus on the MMC's failed relationship with a girl who runs off with a cult, and decided to drop it. The two current main characters do have plenty of reasons to be very attracted to each other, and maybe it's mostly trollishness that has me looking for ways to defy the expectation of their intellectually-based friendship (they're fellow students) turning into a romance. Thing is, she is very attractive according to their culture's standards, and he notices it. I thought about making him asexual, but his aunt already is, so unless asexuality runs in families I don't think I can get away with that. There's already a gay character and I'm not into writing many of those, sorry.

My personal philosophy is that you should never feel obligated to include or dis-include anything based on audience expectations. And I sympathize with your desire to troll. xD
 

Aravelle

Sage
I'm female [obviously] and I gotta admit... I like my romance in fantasy stories. I would feel somewhat cheated, HOWEVER I could forgive it. :x If you can't write it, you can't write it. I think romance is just one of the nice aspects of fantasy; a perk but it doesn't necessarily focus on it.
 

rhd

Troubadour
Strangely one of my favorite authors isn't great at sex scenes (Le Guin), but in The Dispossessed she talks about sex and bonding in the most logical and deeply philosophical terms without eliminating the human aspect, how language can be effected perceptions of sex between races etc, and it melds consistently with her style in the entire book, which I highly recommend. On the other hand there's the Latin American authors like Laura Esquivel and Isabel Allende and Gabriel Garcia Merquez who are pretty good at their sex scenes/romance and its doesn't kill the rest of their book when they put them in there. There characters are volatile and deeply passionate so the sex/romance fits right in. I'd say it's to do with style too, your readers might not be expecting a steamy Harlequin romance-like scene in the middle of your work, its shouldn't stick out like a sore thumb. Both Esquivel and Allende leave little to the imagination but their scenes flow pretty smoothly.
I'd say this, practice helps. Sex scene/romance if dealt with clumsily can ruin a book for a reader who is expecting more. So if unsure, work on it, if you don't want to then don't put it in there. Just say they had sex last night may be, the after-scene is less annoying than a clumsy during-scene. I for one worked on mine because I don't believe in three pages describing 'non-sex', like almost kiss but don't sexual tension, it's a bit dishonest. I personally dislike squeamishness, unless you're dealing with a squeamish character. I'd say treat sex like any other aspect of being a writer, like if you're bad at it or don't know anything about fight scenes, then work on it. Read up on weapon/less martial arts, on history, on battles, on strategies of famous conquerors, it might not be as mind-boggling as one thinks.
In addition, comparing body parts to fruit/vegetables is a bad idea.
 
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Good post rhd.

However I disagree with one of your points - the almost kiss but don't sexual tension. Seriously, this is what happens in real life (not always, but quite a lot - certainly in my experience), but you mustn't just do it for the sake of the rising tension. There must be a compelling and believable reason for the interruption or the reader WILL feel ripped off.

I've earlier posted my personal rules for the construction of a good sex scene, but these are not rules I think about in planning such a scene, they are rules I've distilled from analysing my completed sex scenes. I don't plan them - they just happen as the characters compel me - but if those features are present the scene is likely to work.
 

rhd

Troubadour
Good post rhd.

However I disagree with one of your points - the almost kiss but don't sexual tension. Seriously, this is what happens in real life (not always, but quite a lot - certainly in my experience), but you mustn't just do it for the sake of the rising tension. There must be a compelling and believable reason for the interruption or the reader WILL feel ripped off.
.

Yes, that detail. In fact Isabelle Allende makes this fantastic 'sexual tension' scene in her book Aphrodite (completely forgot about that) and she spares no detail about the climbing tension "Primitive forces have been unleashed:drums and panting of war: images of naked flesh, of cruel embraces, of engorged lances and carnivorous flowers." "they lift their goblets in a toast heavy with suggestion; for an instant their glances meet, and it is as if they had kissed. They are aflame, terrified before the devastating fury of their emotions" Lolz, its both funny and brilliant, the scene mounts to a crescendo but nothing happens, etiquette at a banquet table and all.
 

Kit

Maester
I wrote a kick-ass sex scene in which the characters do nothing but play a flute duet. After I reread it, I wanted a cigarette.
 
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Aravelle

Sage
I think people value relationships more than, necessarily, romance. A relationship doesn't have to be romantic. Look at, for example, the TV show Supernatural. The primary relationship in that show is between two brothers. Not that half the fandom doesn't choose to interpret that as romantic, but the fact is, the show does fine without any long-lasting romances (indeed, the only recurring romances, one for each brother, were received poorly by the fans). People enjoy strong friendships, parental bonds, sibling bonds, and other sorts of romantic bonds (such as pre-established couples), but because the mainstream media tends to focus so much on falling in love, I think we're sort of used to calling our love of close relationships "romance" because that's what it almost always is. Particularly in novels.

Personally, I find most "falling in love" plots to be a bit... shoe-horned in at the last minute. I mean, you read it once, and people falling in love on the battlefield is sexy and romantic. You read it eighty times, and you just start thinking: "Jesus, people, your friends are dying, have a shag tomorrow for goodness' sake."

^ Exactly what I meant to say, but couldn't find the words for.
 

Kit

Maester
Well, there are valid psychological excuses for that. After disasters and losses, many people are driven to- er- celebrate life. Also, in circumstances such as those, one may not be quite in one's right mind or in an emotionally stable place- passions of all types can be inflamed.
 
Thread hop: I'm not sure whether I understand the sort of romance I see in movies, and I definitely don't know how to write "sexual tension," but I've gotten positive responses when writing characters who have a friendly bond that may or may not involve occasionally having sex with each other. If you know how to write characters who like and respect each other, you know how to write at least one kind of romance.
 

Erica

Minstrel
I don't mind love interests. I do mind that every book that uses romance makes it so that it mirrors our present day lifestyle. Most of our fantasy writing is based off of historical civilizations.

That's rather a broad statement. I would have to say that most of the fantasy I read, and the fantasy I am writing is set in fantasy worlds that do not parallel any particular time or place in 'real life' history and where attitudes and norms about things like the role of women in society may be more 'modern' in some ways. There's nothing wrong with trying to make a world and the romances 'traditional' if that's what you want to do. But I tend to relate more to situations where women are allowed and expected to be sexual beings. And if the setting is in a 'traditional' or 'old fashioned' culture, I tend to relate most to characters who rebel against these things (not just sexually). I suppose that's because I'm a product of my own time and culture, but there you have it.

I've read and enjoyed plenty of novels that do not have a 'love interest' that develops for the main characters, or where the 'love' takes place in the background. I don't tend to read novels that are romances first and foremost, but to me, a spanking good romantic subplot is the icing on the cake in a story. It can be a romance between a husband and wife, between two men or two women, a couple of mature adults or between a couple of free spirited young people. It doesn't have to involve stereotyped things like love triangles, though at some point, there will probably be an obstacle that the lovers have to overcome to be together.

Maybe I'm just a hopeless romantic, but I think that love is quite simply one of the best things in the world and it can often be the harbor in the storm for people who are dealing with difficult situations. Maybe I feel this way because I've been lucky in love and have spent the past 20 years madly in love with a man who is also my best friend, but I think a good love relationship can bring out the best in someone.

And romantic subplot doesn't have to mean steamy sex scenes (though those can be fun if well written). You can have satisfying romance and romantic tension with no overt sex scenes ... or no sex at all even.
 
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Cassia

Dreamer
I am most definetly the youngest person here...I despise love scenes. Maybe like a kiss or something but no more it ruins the entire book for me! So I say that you don't need love scenes. This is fantasy, not romance fiction
 

Aravelle

Sage
I am most definetly the youngest person here...I despise love scenes. Maybe like a kiss or something but no more it ruins the entire book for me! So I say that you don't need love scenes. This is fantasy, not romance fiction

Romance can enhance the story, much like action. They're both like spices added in a soup or sweet. You can have more than a kiss and maintain a legitimate fantasy story.
 
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