Are vampires too cliche?

[Devor]

My definition of cliche is a trope whose presence immediately calls to mind other examples in which it was poorly used. I think Vampires do that. It doesn't help right now that they're popular, so that there's a flood of vampire stuff. But I kind of think that was true even before Twilight.

That doesn't need to mean very much about whether you should it use it or not. It just means that you have a higher threshold for getting your readers to suspend disbelief - you need them to suspend the baggage of bad vampire writing as well.

 

[Zophos]

I can't help but wonder if whomever the schmuck was who wrote the Twilight series didn't wonder similar things about Anne Rice.

Whatever you do make them badass again. These weak, conflicted, teenie bopper vampires from Twilight and Trueblood piss me off. I guess we had it coming when Gary Oldman cried over Winona Rider in the '92 Coppola film. I mean, honestly, Winona Rider?!?

 

[Steerpike]

Twilight targeted a certain audience, and she did a good job of it. It wasn't the first vampire/paranormal romance to hit the scene, but it opened the floodgates. The continued popularity of that sort of thing tells me there is still a market, though it seems to be shifting from primarily vampire to other supernatural characters.

There are still good books out where vampires are outright brutal and vicious. Look at Tim Lebbon's novelization of the 30 Days of Night movie (which is good; the movie not so much). Or Vampyrrhic (Simon Clark). There are others as well, where vampires are not glamorized (The Orange Eats Creeps, by Grace Krilanovich).

 

[Ireth]

Know what i cant stand in books and movies, that fact that the person writing it is afraid of calling it what it is, for example, Walking dead call their zombies walkers, thats fine, sounds cool and all, but i mean come on! If a vampire is a vampire, lets call it a vampire, not a fanger, or a bloodletter of boobytron, or a human transfusion centre. I understand that it works sometimes when the creator has made a few changes to the basics of the vampire but apart from that, be true!

What if your story is set in a time or place where the word "vampire" doesn't exist? My vampire novel is set in our world in the mid-1300's, and the word "vampire" wasn't coined until about the 1700's. I use a translation of the term "blood-drinker" to describe my vampires. Would something like that bother you?

 

[PrincessaMiranda]

All very poignant points. I try to avoid the deep love bull that is in everything, but I know it is popular. I have one that is based on the phrase, 'Even Evil can Love'. The bad guy is a bad guy and doesn't change, the heroine is, of course, reluctant. But she never falls in love with him. She seduces him, pretending to be just as in love, only to break his heart as revenge for turning her.

Trying to keep it original.

 

[ALB2012]

I wouldn't say so. If you do exactly the same idea as "Twilight" (which I haven't read and will not be doing so) then maybe, if you do something unique then of course not. Vampire stories have been around for ages in one form or another. Most fantasy creatures have been done somewhere in some form. Go for it, the fuss about Twilight will die down, as will 50 SoG fuss and that is not new either.

I would say go for it, write the story you want and damn those who think it is a bandwagon

 

[Reaver]

I guess we had it coming when Gary Oldman cried over Winona Rider in the '92 Coppola film. I mean, honestly, Winona Rider?!?

THANK YOU!! She has the worst fake-British accent I ever heard. It's worse than Liam Neeson's fake American accent. (See "Taken" for further detail.)

 

[Zophos]

Twilight targeted a certain audience...
...

Correct, I believe, on targetting an audience. I can't help but wonder if that's what writing has become nowadays. Are we down to niche marketing, snake oil sales and spicemongering?

...Trying to keep it original.

If you want a good twist, go back to the vampire incapable of love and therefore incapable of life. There's a protagonist ripe for the foil.

THANK YOU!! She has the worst fake-British accent I ever heard. It's worse than Liam Neeson's fake American accent. (See "Taken" for further detail.)

And don't even get me started on Keanu...

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

Don't slang off Winnie - she's hot! (Just make sure to lock up your valuables!)

Cheers, Greg.

 

[Steerpike]

Correct, I believe, on targetting an audience. I can't help but wonder if that's what writing has become nowadays. Are we down to niche marketing, snake oil sales and spicemongering?

Perhaps (on the niche marketing). With the explosion of fiction we are already seeing and are going to continue to see with electronic publishing, targeting a niche may be your best best in terms of establishing a following.

 

[DameiThiessen]

Vampires are not cliche. What is cliche is the vampire romance, where they love a human but can't be together because of what they are. There has to be a better way to weave a story together that doesn't rely on "forbidden love".

I also hate it when the author goes "I have vampires in my story - but they don't include any traditional weaknesses of vampire folklore" - basically making them beautiful people that drink blood and can't be killed in any remarkable way.

 

[Ireth]

Vampires are not cliche. What is cliche is the vampire romance, where they love a human but can't be together because of what they are. There has to be a better way to weave a story together that doesn't rely on "forbidden love".

How about two gay vampire men who love each other, and whose relationship is hindered by a huge age gap between them that affects the younger's view of the elder?

I also hate it when the author goes "I have vampires in my story - but they don't include any traditional weaknesses of vampire folklore" - basically making them beautiful people that drink blood and can't be killed in any remarkable way.

Well, my vampires' weaknesses aren't traditional, but they're still there. They're harmed by iron and repelled by rowan wood, and full direct sunlight reveals their demonic/bestial nature. Being turned doesn't make them beautiful; they look just the same as when they died, minus the sunlight thing. And their digestive/waste removal process is seriously icky.

 

[DameiThiessen]

How about two gay vampire men who love each other, and whose relationship is hindered by a huge age gap between them that affects the younger's view of the elder?

I was thinking of the angsty, I-want-to-be-with-you-but-I'll-eat-you, or I-want-to-be-with-you-but-I'll-outlive-you kind of romance.

Well, my vampires' weaknesses aren't traditional, but they're still there. They're harmed by iron and repelled by rowan wood, and full direct sunlight reveals their demonic/bestial nature. Being turned doesn't make them beautiful; they look just the same as when they died, minus the sunlight thing. And their digestive/waste removal process is seriously icky.

As long as there's something. Every monster story needs to include the monster's weaknesses.

 

[PrincessaMiranda]

I've always wondered how their waste worked.

I guessed 'Everybody poops' didn't apply to them.

 

[Devor]

Perhaps (on the niche marketing). With the explosion of fiction we are already seeing and are going to continue to see with electronic publishing, targeting a niche may be your best best in terms of establishing a following.

I've said this before, I want to emphasize it as much as I can.

I think your best bet for marketing is to focus on a niche but to also include something for the mass market. It takes a long time to saturate a niche, and yet 5% of the mass market is still more than 50% of a niche - so why not target both?

The problem with niche marketing is that very few people in your market will identify as part of a niche. Most readers don't actually know what they like before they read it. So reaching them is a lot harder and takes a lot longer than it might sound.

((edit))

Other problems with niche marketing are that there's a sliding scale of how deeply people fall into that niche, and there's a lot of subtitles which make it difficult to define a niche. To keep it on topic, a cursory glance would put Buffy, Twilight and True Blood in the same niche - vampire romance - and yet in my experience from talking to people, they aren't really much in the same niche at all. Insomuch as their niches do overlap, Twilight has more mass market elements, Buffy fewer, True Blood hardly any. And it shows in the size of their audience.

So if you're going to think about your target audience, it's a much deeper discussion, I think, than most authors are prepared for.

 

[kjboe]

Thats cool actually, i can dig that. Its just when an old ancient creature is given a ridiculous name like what i said before, its cringeworthy. I mean i see exactly where and what you mean by using a term of blood-drinker, that'd be awesome because its set in an older time.

I like!

 

[BeigePalladin]

are vampires "cliché"? are elves cliche, or dwarves? how abouts knights and sorcery? sci-fi and the far future? the space opera or the epic quest? love throughout the ages? good and evil? They're a classical fantasy creature, as much as what I mentioned before, and as such they're only cliche when fantasy itself is cliche

then comes the fact that cliche does not equal bad, as to become a cliche, something must have been effective and intresting enough for people to remeber and duplicate it. If its well written, then what your reading can be made entierly of cliche without it having any impact upon the work itself.

that and everything has been done enough times to make everything cliche, so whats one more drop in the bucket

Of course thats not to say don't try to put your own spin on something, as thats part of your own work, ust don't be afraid to use something becayuse its not origional.

 

[Ireth]

I've always wondered how their waste worked.

I guessed 'Everybody poops' didn't apply to them.

There's actually a great big post with lots of info on my vampires here: http://mythicscribes.com/forums/brainstorming-planning/2839-ireths-take-vampires.html

 

[Steerpike]

Even vampire romances are salable. They seem to be doing quite well. A friend of mine got a three book deal from a publisher for vampire romances not that long ago.

 

[Shockley]

If you take any trait, characteristic, etc. you can be 100% certain that some other writer, at some place or time, has handled the same topic. Everything, in a sense, is old territory that we're just looking at in new ways with new styles of writing and new human experiences.

That said, if you're looking at your story and worried that it might be cliched, there's a reason you are having that worry. Find what it is, and adjust/remove it.