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Apple Won't Carry eBook that Mentions Amazon
- Thread starter Steerpike
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grahamguitarman
Sage
This is fairly typical behaviour for a large company like Apple, and is not exactly new either, you will find a history of this kind of attitude with almost any company over the years. Very few businesses will willingly mention their competitors - in any field, and will only do so if they are forced to. Amazon of course will publish almost anything, because they are the whores of the publishing business, and have such a huge monopoly that they don't have any fear of the competition.
I originally started out on the BBC computer, then switched to the Amiga, which I used for many years. Until the corrupt board of directors had siphoned off so much of the companies money for themselves that Amiga went bankrupt. Then I had to switch to the Microsoft powered PC, despite the horrible operating system and my dislike of Microsoft as a company.
Had it been possible to switch to Linux I would have done so, because Linux is probably the only platform free of corrupt business practices. But the scarcity of good software to perform all the stuff I wanted to do meant I had to abandon Linux after a few weeks (sure there are always alternatives, but the quality was too low and vital functions missing) I've tried a few times since and still not been satisfied enough to stick with it.
Nowadays I use an iPhone and am intending to get an iPad too, I also have an Android tablet and a PC and a laptop both running windows 7. I actually like the slick interface and closed ecosystem of IOS on the iphone and iPad. But the lack of depth and control would drive me mad on a desktop computer like the Mac, which is why use the PC for my artwork and other creative software ect. The Android tablet hardly gets used because I find Android 2.2 to be too clunky and too much like an unfinished product, which is a shame because it does some things better than IOS. Basically I will use whatever product suits in the particular circumstances, sometimes IOS is better than windows, sometimes vice versa.
To get back to the conversation, even though I like Apple products and will continue to use them, I dislike the way the corporation is behaving these days. In his last couple of years Jobs seems to have lost the plot in regards to ethics, and Apple have continued down that road after his death. I cringe every time I hear another story about Apples recent behaviour!
BUT Microsoft are not exactly innocent of inethical practise either, their anti competitive practices are infamous amongst those of us who have been around computers for long enough. Small companies were swallowed up to remove competition, deliberate OS tweaks were made to make competitors software unreliable and many other underhand tricks were used to undermine the competition. And Microsoft have not become less corrupt over time, they have just got better at PR spin and concealing what they do.
Google are being exposed as being just as dishonest now too, what with specially designed software to circumvent the no-cookie settings of the Safari browser, and the scandal of Google street view cars stealing data from home networks, then not deleting the data after being ordered to do so (and all the time claiming these were accidental 'mistakes') I find myself growing more nervous about the amount of my personal Data that Google holds in their databases, and less trusting of them with that data.
And Facebook are probably one of the most disliked and distrusted companies of all at the moment, a recent survey found that distrust of facebook is higher than for any other IT based company out there!
If I limited myself to only using 'ethical' IT products I would never get anything done, because I'd be stuck with Linux, which is more of a hassle to use, doesn't work with my specialised Giclee Printer, and doesn't have the professional software I need for my work (and does anyone know of a Linux phone?)
I'm not disagreeing with the point that Apple are wrong here, I'm just trying to put this into the perspective of the IT industry as a whole, in which there are very few players that haven't become corrupt as they get bigger and more powerful.
I originally started out on the BBC computer, then switched to the Amiga, which I used for many years. Until the corrupt board of directors had siphoned off so much of the companies money for themselves that Amiga went bankrupt. Then I had to switch to the Microsoft powered PC, despite the horrible operating system and my dislike of Microsoft as a company.
Had it been possible to switch to Linux I would have done so, because Linux is probably the only platform free of corrupt business practices. But the scarcity of good software to perform all the stuff I wanted to do meant I had to abandon Linux after a few weeks (sure there are always alternatives, but the quality was too low and vital functions missing) I've tried a few times since and still not been satisfied enough to stick with it.
Nowadays I use an iPhone and am intending to get an iPad too, I also have an Android tablet and a PC and a laptop both running windows 7. I actually like the slick interface and closed ecosystem of IOS on the iphone and iPad. But the lack of depth and control would drive me mad on a desktop computer like the Mac, which is why use the PC for my artwork and other creative software ect. The Android tablet hardly gets used because I find Android 2.2 to be too clunky and too much like an unfinished product, which is a shame because it does some things better than IOS. Basically I will use whatever product suits in the particular circumstances, sometimes IOS is better than windows, sometimes vice versa.
To get back to the conversation, even though I like Apple products and will continue to use them, I dislike the way the corporation is behaving these days. In his last couple of years Jobs seems to have lost the plot in regards to ethics, and Apple have continued down that road after his death. I cringe every time I hear another story about Apples recent behaviour!
BUT Microsoft are not exactly innocent of inethical practise either, their anti competitive practices are infamous amongst those of us who have been around computers for long enough. Small companies were swallowed up to remove competition, deliberate OS tweaks were made to make competitors software unreliable and many other underhand tricks were used to undermine the competition. And Microsoft have not become less corrupt over time, they have just got better at PR spin and concealing what they do.
Google are being exposed as being just as dishonest now too, what with specially designed software to circumvent the no-cookie settings of the Safari browser, and the scandal of Google street view cars stealing data from home networks, then not deleting the data after being ordered to do so (and all the time claiming these were accidental 'mistakes') I find myself growing more nervous about the amount of my personal Data that Google holds in their databases, and less trusting of them with that data.
And Facebook are probably one of the most disliked and distrusted companies of all at the moment, a recent survey found that distrust of facebook is higher than for any other IT based company out there!
If I limited myself to only using 'ethical' IT products I would never get anything done, because I'd be stuck with Linux, which is more of a hassle to use, doesn't work with my specialised Giclee Printer, and doesn't have the professional software I need for my work (and does anyone know of a Linux phone?)
I'm not disagreeing with the point that Apple are wrong here, I'm just trying to put this into the perspective of the IT industry as a whole, in which there are very few players that haven't become corrupt as they get bigger and more powerful.
JCFarnham
Auror
O_O
That it about all I can say to that right now.
Excuse me while I pack up my things, cancel the broadband and move to an isolate cabin in the Shetlands.
grahamguitarman
Sage
lol its getting that way isn't it
Its like anything else in life - you can either be a martyr to your principles or take the pragmatic view that you take out of the mess whatever you can.
Benjamin Clayborne
Auror
I don't mean to be combative, but it is simply not rational to think that Google is a hundredth as bad as Microsoft has ever been. Yes, they've done some dumb stuff; it's inevitable in an organization that large. But the pattern of their behavior over the years is to own up to their mistakes, try to make things as transparent as possible, and give people plenty of options for taking their data elsewhere. (And it's fairly obvious that there are factions inside Google that favor greater or lesser levels of transparency; certain Google products are a lot more open than others.) This doesn't mean they don't strive for competitive advantage in the marketplace, or that we shouldn't be keeping our eye on them, lest they do start seriously misbehaving.
The wifi thing was bad, but everything I read about it (and I read a lot) leads me to believe that it was a combination of dumb mistakes rather than any kind of intentional malice. They had configured their cars to sniff and log open wifi APs as they were driving along. Open wifi APs, that is, networks with no authentication on them. Networks that someone configured with the intent of letting anyone at all connect to them. Google wasn't downloading everything on those networks (it wouldn't even be possible to do that in the time a Street View car would be within range of the average wifi access point, not to mention the fact that having an open AP doesn't necessarily mean you're sharing any data through it), it was just collecting data about the existence of those access points.
I consider myself pretty good at identifying malicious actors in the network space (a lot of my day job involves dealing with information security), and to me, Google just does not qualify. Like I said, this doesn't mean we shouldn't keep our eyes on them; the more power an entity has, the more everyone else needs to watch that entity like a hawk.
- Thread starter
- #26
Benjamin - I think you're right; Google isn't in the same ballpark as Apple and Microsoft when it comes to being bad actors, and these days I think Apple eclipses Microsoft, though if given the chance maybe Microsoft would go back down that road (they need to dump Ballmer, but that's another story).
Zophos
Minstrel
I suddenly have the urge to rewrite Thomas Paine's Common Sense replacing government with big business.
- Thread starter
- #28
It is true that corporate/business power these days rises to a level that Paine wouldn't have contemplated at the time. Let's not forget, however, that there are still fundamental differences between State and private action, whether on the part of businesses or otherwise. The State still has the power to compel you, through police, military, and the judicial process, to comply with laws of its own making. A private entity can't do these things. Nevertheless, the imbalance of negotiating power between a citizen and a large private entity is great.
I've never heard of a company waging war or putting people in prison.
When a bank seizes property, they do so because you've breached a contract that you signed and they have a government official standing watch. When a government seizes your home, they do so just because they want your home, not because of anything you've done. They give you what they choose to give you. They take what they choose to take. They can do so for whatever reason they choose to.
We're really going to yell at Apple for not wanting to carry a book that praises their competitors? I don't know what Apple should do or what the government should do about it. But that inclination doesn't make Apple corrupt or unethical. If you scaled down the size of these companies and put yourself in Apple's shoes, you would probably say it was a natural response.
Again, for the moment I'm not concerned with should or what's best for the market as a whole. I'm not prepared with a analysis on the proper enforcement of anti-trust laws. But I mean, really, Microsoft offered IE for free, and we've called them corrupt for it. I think that's an attitude that needs perspective.
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grahamguitarman
Sage
Actually the software that was data mining was deliberately written to do so. it wasn't dredging for everything on a hard drive, it was looking for specific data that would be useful to google on a commercial basis.
Google at the moment are trying to put the blame on a 'rogue engineer'. But as a lot of people have pointed out it would be very difficult for any engineer to be so partisan without his superiors knowing about it! In fact it has been reported that the engineer told several people in his department what he was up to.
Its also worth noting that Google didn't 'own up' until the hard drives had been seized by a german official, and realized they had been caught red handed. Playing the we are the good guy card may be great marketing spin, but we only have their word for it that they are telling the truth about being honest LOL.
I'm not saying that Google are as bad as Apple or Microsoft, but neither are they innocent of underhand practices. If not brought under control the way Microsoft had to be (and Apple needs to be), then Google could very well end up as bad as the rest of them as they become too big and powerful.
Google at the moment are trying to put the blame on a 'rogue engineer'. But as a lot of people have pointed out it would be very difficult for any engineer to be so partisan without his superiors knowing about it! In fact it has been reported that the engineer told several people in his department what he was up to.
Its also worth noting that Google didn't 'own up' until the hard drives had been seized by a german official, and realized they had been caught red handed. Playing the we are the good guy card may be great marketing spin, but we only have their word for it that they are telling the truth about being honest LOL.
I'm not saying that Google are as bad as Apple or Microsoft, but neither are they innocent of underhand practices. If not brought under control the way Microsoft had to be (and Apple needs to be), then Google could very well end up as bad as the rest of them as they become too big and powerful.
grahamguitarman
Sage
I think its all the other practices that have labelled Microsoft as corrupt. Offering IE for free was just an agressive marketing ploy.
Maybe there's a reasonable case if you add up everything over their history. I haven't heard anything in particular that strikes me as over a corruption line in my mind (again, not a comment about whether the government should take anti-trust action). But there's just so much worse than anything I've heard come out of the IT industry.
Benjamin Clayborne
Auror
Are you sure? I recall hearing that Google basically started it by saying, "Er, turns out we were mining info we shouldn't have been..." and then the Germans went berzerk.
Surely not ze Germans!
