How to handle erotic scenes?

[Hans]

What do you do with erotics in your story?
The simple thing would be to create a plot that doesn't contain erotics. For some of you, e.g. those who write for children this is the right thing to do.

But for all others: If two characters love each other, how far do you go? Do you keep your readers with a "Did They Or Didn't They?" or how near do you zoom in?

What about rituals (religious, magic or otherwise) that contain erotics? You can say "X is a godess of fertility, so a woman that has never given birth can't become her priest." But at this godesses holy day people won't just stand around and talk. Again, how far do you zoom in? What about maturing rituals or Crowley style sexual magic?

Do you villains (or maybe the heroes) have any perversions? How do you tell the reader?

 

[Derin]

I've always ignored sex in my work (it can be assumed that a husband and wife are probably having sex without seeing it), or just faded to black as the making out started. But I find sex scenes really boring to read and I'm bad at writing them.

 

[Chilari]

I'm with Derin. I don't want to read it and I'm no good at writing it (and don't want to anyway). Yes, sex is a part of life, but it is a private part of life. I don't want to know about someone else's sex life, so why should a character be any different? In any case I object to stories in which sex becomes shorthand for characters being in love. Sex and love are not the same thing. Often they are both part of a successful relationship, yes, but they can exist without the other, at least temporarily. And if it happens that two characters having sex is a major part of the plot, I'd like to see it treated sensitively, with all the complexities sex has in real life rather than proof of their love or consumation or their relationship.

If it comes to it, I'd rather hint that it has happened or is about to happen rather than spell it out or worse, describe it. In any case, the story I'm working on at the moment involves a culture where any measure public nudity is considered shameful, even bare shoulders or thighs, and nudity in general is considered something only to be shared by lovers and spouses - you wouldn't, for example, see public or communal bathing facilities. Thus the characters would not really discuss sex, thus it would not be appropriate, with the feel of the story and the world I'm setting it in, to discuss sex either.

 

[Map the Dragon]

I just draw stick figures and ask my publisher to insert my art into the writing at random spots in the text.

 

[sashamerideth]

This is something I am wondering about myself, I have a culture that includes polyandry, group marriage, and homosexual families as a normal thing in addition to single heterosexual pairings.

My protagonist comes from a culture that is not too far from modern mainstream accepted ideas of sexuality, and very private about intimacy. I don't know how I will approach the ramifications of my new world.

 

[Derin]

And if it happens that two characters having sex is a major part of the plot, I'd like to see it treated sensitively, with all the complexities sex has in real life rather than proof of their love or consumation or their relationship.

Good point. If it's meant to be romantic and magical, surely a blow-by-blow kills the effect? Descriptions of sex always sound off-putting to me. I'm puzzled as to why sexual violation is almost always skipped over in rape scenes (where it could be used to highlight brutality quite well) but described (clumsily) in such detail in apprently magical erotic scenes.

And so often, writers get things wrong. I am constantly baffled by the sheer number of female fantasy writers who don't know where the hymen is. Or assume that all hymens break and bleed during first intercourse.

If it comes to it, I'd rather hint that it has happened or is about to happen rather than spell it out or worse, describe it. In any case, the story I'm working on at the moment involves a culture where any measure public nudity is considered shameful, even bare shoulders or thighs, and nudity in general is considered something only to be shared by lovers and spouses - you wouldn't, for example, see public or communal bathing facilities. Thus the characters would not really discuss sex, thus it would not be appropriate, with the feel of the story and the world I'm setting it in, to discuss sex either.

That setting is one that I'd love to read a sex scene in, particularly if it's both participants' first time. "Is... is this meant to happen?" "Where do I put it?" "Is this right? This can't be right." "Why is there blood?!"

 

[Hans]

In any case I object to stories in which sex becomes shorthand for characters being in love.

Never said that. I gave the example of two characters because love is one important source of erotics.
Also I think erotics is more than the act of making love itself. Think of erotic dance, erotic dresses, erotic talk and so on. Neither of that necessarily leads directly to any sexual activity.

For the point of public nudity, that depends on culture. In a lot of cultures public nudity is so common that there is no relation between nudity and sexuality or eroticism at all. In a culture where it is mandatory to wear gloves showing hands becomes very erotic.

 

[Chilari]

I didn't mean to imply that you did say that, I just meant in general in fiction, whether it's fantasy or not. Too many of the stories I've read do use sex as if to say "see, they really are in love/ meant to be together", and don't consider the possibility that they might not be, particularly when it's the first relationship one or both partners have been in - how often does that happen in real life? I can understand the stories where the first person the heroine sleeps with is considered her soul mate, provided there are other characters she has at the very least had a crush on before this. But when it's first crush becomes first boyfriend becomes soul mate becomes first sexual encounter it's just dull and predictable.

 

[sashamerideth]

I just finished reading Ringworld, there was a lot of first moment of sex, and some talk of how people felt, but no details. In there some of the sex was romantic but a lot was just entertainment or devicive. Quite a good balance, it served it's purpose and wasn't the main focus of the story. If not for the deviciveness, it could have been left out completely.

Sometimes directly addressing the sex is completely unnecessary and detracts from the story. Before my reboot, I just closed the door on my pairings when the conversation or situation before made it probable that sex was on the menu. Rarely did I actually say what had happened. I don't plan on changing that approach.

 

[CicadaGrrl]

I am straight up about sex. Actually, when I get something ready for a wider audience, I have to tone it down. Sexuality is an important part of the human condition. People change through sex. Whether it is a one night stand they regret, clumsily losing virginity, or that first time making love, I find some sex scenes create character depth and a sense of movement in the relationship. And yes, I've written all of the above situations. I just find it an odd part of the human, or perhaps american puritanical system that I can messily implode a head with no comment but if I show someone giving head, everyone's up in arms. Sex is healthy.

 

[Derin]

I am straight up about sex. Actually, when I get something ready for a wider audience, I have to tone it down. Sexuality is an important part of the human condition. People change through sex. Whether it is a one night stand they regret, clumsily losing virginity, or that first time making love, I find some sex scenes create character depth and a sense of movement in the relationship. And yes, I've written all of the above situations. I just find it an odd part of the human, or perhaps american puritanical system that I can messily implode a head with no comment but if I show someone giving head, everyone's up in arms. Sex is healthy.

I don't avoid sex for any puritanical reason, I avoid it because it's boring. I've never seen anyone up in arms about sex scenes either but I'm not American. I don't describe every detail of how somebody bathes, eats breakfast or saddles a mule, why would I write every detail about a sexual encounter? If you've found ways to use it to create character depth then clearly it's important in your works, but I've never needed it and in most of the novels I read sex scenes in I find them to be superfluous and a waste of my time.

 

[CicadaGrrl]

Why?

I still don't get the concept that sex is boring. Yes, I have definitely read sex scenes that were unnecc. or really badly written. For the most part, that's what I've found useless about sex in books. Sex should be character driven, just like anything else. It should forward the character in some way and be as important as any other facet of a character's life. Do I write about my character eating breakfast? If there is no reason to do it, no I don't. But yes, actually, I have a scene about a character doing just that as she realizes in the very normal-ness of now eating breakfast with her new band of travelers, that her old life has begun to lose it's hold on her. That's all over comfortable discussion and how the kitchen smells. Anything can be important. To me, writing solid sex means something. Look up "The Joy of Writing Sex." It's an awesome meditation by various authors of how to write good sex and more, why we do it.

I know you aren't american, and I know we write fantasy, but it still makes me really sad that sex is considered a boring, unnecc. act when violence is considered necc. and exciting. I've read a shitload of really boring violence, supposed tension, and supposed intrigue. It's not what you write. It's what you write well.

 

[Derin]

I still don't get the concept that sex is boring. Yes, I have definitely read sex scenes that were unnecc. or really badly written. For the most part, that's what I've found useless about sex in books. Sex should be character driven, just like anything else. It should forward the character in some way and be as important as any other facet of a character's life. Do I write about my character eating breakfast? If there is no reason to do it, no I don't. But yes, actually, I have a scene about a character doing just that as she realizes in the very normal-ness of now eating breakfast with her new band of travelers, that her old life has begun to lose it's hold on her. That's all over comfortable discussion and how the kitchen smells. Anything can be important. To me, writing solid sex means something. Look up "The Joy of Writing Sex." It's an awesome meditation by various authors of how to write good sex and more, why we do it.

That's a good time to write something routine, but I've found that a lot of authors put in a lot of unnecessary sex. If more authors treated them like you did then maybe people like me would take them more seriously, but I can honestly say that I've never written anything where I think describing sex would improve it. Awkward sexual tension, sure, but not the sex itself. I think our writing styles are just different.

Since I'm terrible at writing sex scenes, your reference sounds quite useful. Thanks for the tip.

I know you aren't american, and I know we write fantasy, but it still makes me really sad that sex is considered a boring, unnecc. act when violence is considered necc. and exciting. I've read a shitload of really boring violence, supposed tension, and supposed intrigue. It's not what you write. It's what you write well.

Violence is another thing that I think is over-hyped. Slightly less so than sex, because for some reason people feel more of an obligation to make violence plot-relevant, but I've read a lot of boring and unneccesary fight scenes in my time. I think some people forget they're writing a storyand just string scenes together that they think sound cool. (Which is awesome if you *are* still making it into a story, but otherwise gets silly.)

 

[Chilari]

I think part of the problem, for me, is that when I started writing fantasy which included some degree of romance, I was quite young (and VERY innocent), and the sum total of my knowledge about sex came from one biololgy lesson, one PSE lesson about using contraceptives, a few films where it was hinted at but not shown, and a couple of fantasy books containing sex scenes which described the sex generally as either "clumsy", "passionate" or "sensual". At the age that I was then, with the beliefs that I held then (I was determined not to lose my virginity til I was married, at that time), and with the inexperience I had of boys in general (I went to a girls' school and the only boys I knew were family members and the guys at church), sex was not something I had any experience of, nor wanted experience of (or, for that matter, had the opportunity to experience).

But while I was not experiencing sex, I was experiencing life, and I was writing and writing and writing. And my writing improved. My life experience widened and I continued to use it in my writing. And when I did start having sex, it was private, secret even - I didn't want my parents to know, even though by that time I was an adult, because I was still living at home and they still treated my like an innocent little girl, and in any case who wants their parents to know they're having sex? So I still didn't write it. So now I'm at the point where my writing in general has improved, but I've never written a sex scene or even used the word sex in a novel. I have hinted or implied that it has happened a few times - I've not been shy about that - but I've never written a sex scene. And that's partly because my writing experience has existed longer than my sexual experience, and partly because it's widely accepted that sex scenes are frequently badly written and that these stand out. So it's partly because I don't know how to write sex and partly because I'm worried it'll be rubbish.

 

[J. Rosemary Moss]

I think this question depends on three things:

1. Your genre

2. Your target audience

3. What you hope to accomplish with an erotic scene--in other words, how does the scene move the story forward?

The story my writing partner and I are working on is an M/M romance as well as fantasy. (Most of what I write is M/M or F/F. I'm trying to be broad-minded, though, so maybe someday I'll try M/F.) The target audience for M/M romance (mostly straight women, as it happens) has different expectations than a more general fantasy audience. That gives us much more leeway when it comes to erotic scenes.

But we still have to consider whether a romantic or erotic scene will move the story forward. Does it show one character coming to an important realization about the other? Or about himself? Is one character using the other in some way? (This is a big issue in my story, where one character is definitely using the other--at least at first.) Will this moment of intimacy come back to haunt the characters for some reason? Will it help them establish a lasting partnership?

If the erotic scene is integral to the story, and if your target audience is open to it, than by all means include it. If not, I'd leave it out.

So it's partly because I don't know how to write sex and partly because I'm worried it'll be rubbish.

Chilari, if you have any interest in learning to write sex scenes, I'll PM you some links to articles and such about writing good sensual and erotic scenes. Just give me some time to gather them up.

The best thing, though--again, if you ever decide you want to include sex scenes in your works--is just to find sex scenes that you enjoy as a reader and dissect them to figure out how the author or authors made them work. I did that with my favorite M/M author, Josh Lanyon. His books don't even include much sex, relatively speaking--but he makes every sex scene count. And not by using bizarre positions, but by showing us how the characters grow or develop through the scene.

So, yes, if you want to write good sex scenes, you should read lots of them and find authors you love. I think that's more important than your own real-life experience, because a good sex scene is much more about emotion than mechanics. We all know the basic idea of inserting A into B, and probably a few interesting variations. But we don't know what the characters are thinking, feeling or plotting--so, to me, that's what a sex scene has to show us.

 

[CicadaGrrl]

Thanks, Rosemary. There with you. When I was a creative writing student, my proff always said, if you think you are hot shit, try writing a sex scene. They are hard to manage if you are going to do them with raw emotion, etc. It's not like I put in a sex scene every five minutes, if that was an impression you got. There's usually only a few, one, or none sex scenes. I just used them to advance character development. They make a point. They drive the plot. I don't do the extraneous.

My mom is a writer and was a women's studies major. Sex was a well talked about thing in our family, so though I started writing at ten, it was still on my radar. Though I didn't have first hand experiences for quite a while after that.

Gratuitous violence is just as bad. When I choose violence it has a particular purpose to drive the story forward, and I usually try to make it as disgusting and awful and upsetting as possible.

My true colors of a memoir writer are probable rearing their heads as well.

 

[Behelit]

Sex is an extremely delicate matter in any story for many reasons. IE, publishing, varying perspectives of sex, and the overall ability of the writer to tastefully integrate it.

First of all, if you plan to make attempts to publish your work, who is your audience? And how intense or graphic is the sex?

I agree sex can be a great way to develop a character. Using it to illustrate a romance is not one of those ways. It is, on the other hand, a fantastic way to demonstrate just how human a character is or feels. When that heat comes on strong, you can be at the peak of vulnerability. It is effective at telling just the kind of depths one might go to to live or get what they want.

Is giving head romantic? Not really. Though it can be a way to show how adventurous one or the other (depending on the aggressor) might be. That also brings up the power struggle aspect in a relationship, showing a character to be passive/submissive or domineering. Not that it solidifies that to be a precise character trait, it can generate contrast between public and private affairs and how one portrays him/herself. Unfortunately, not everyone would be quick to see these underlying factors and may very well jump instantly to it being gratuitous.

Rape, though a VERY real and terrible occurrence in life, is such a cheap and tacky way to tug at the heartstrings or evoke an extreme hatred for a villainous character.

I would still strongly suggest IMPLIED relations as upping the graphic nature will restrict your audience.

 

[James Chandler]

I have read some great sex scenes, including some that have quite specifically advanced the plot of the story. A well written sex scene can get your blood pumping. But, when it comes to writing, I always remember one very important thing: I have never read a fantasy or sci-fi novel or story that was made better by including a graphic sex scene. No matter how well the scene is written, no matter how relevant to the plot, it is always true. In every case where I've seen graphic sex in genre fiction, the story would be equally as good if not actually better if the scene was removed.

That doesn't mean a story needs to be sex-less. But, advancing the plot? Developing the character? Nonsense. A character's thoughts and emotions about sex before or after the act are far more important to character development than what happens or what he or she is thinking during the act. The same is true for the interactions of the characters. How do they speak to each other, does their body language change?

Sex can be a great way to connect with...I mean relate to your readers because it is a nexus of experience. The reader, the writer and the character all understand sexual desires, even those who may never have had sex. But, hints and innuendos, suggestion rather than description, are much better tools for reeling in the reader. "Wow, how did I get a bruise there?" By leaving the specifics to the reader's imagination, any reader can relate to the character. But, show the character engaging in an act to which different readers respond differently, and you've lost control of the reader.

I would still strongly suggest IMPLIED relations as upping the graphic nature will restrict your audience.

Maxim has a higher circulation than Playboy. And, up is not a verb.

 

[Kelise]

That setting is one that I'd love to read a sex scene in, particularly if it's both participants' first time. "Is... is this meant to happen?" "Where do I put it?" "Is this right? This can't be right." "Why is there blood?!"

I'm going to do this exactly. Muwahaha.

I'm so fed up with things being done do typically. In my book, spoilers: the baddie gets away with it. Because that happens in real life. Two of my characters will break up over something very, very, pointless - rather than some huge jealousy or cheating or threats of death.

And now - if I'm going to include sex at all - it'll be that way. Awkward and attempts and probably not succeeding very well. And it'll feel a lot more real (I hope) then these 'sensual' scenes of heaving chests and the sweeping of desks so they can hike up and somehow have rough - oh, sorry, 'passionate' sex without an ounce of foreplay - ouch.


Though I must admit, I'm from left-field. Until recently I was very sure I was asexual, so I'm a bit nieve to the 'whole sex thing'. I still don't really enjoy it in books as I've found most scenes to be unbelievable or a bit over-the-top. Find me a good sex scene in a book and I'll give you a brownie. Which I need to go put icing on. Hrm.

 

[CicadaGrrl]

Giving head not character advancing? Okay. Now we're coming really close to arguing about our actual sex lives. But I assure you I have a first time blow job scene that highlights giving, vulnerability, laughter and finally relaxed sense of togetherness in one of my books (that's what I'm going for, anyway). It's one of the scenes I'm the most proud of of anything that I've written. It was really difficult to write because I wanted exactly the right growth and sweetness in the scene. I'm sticking to my guns and saying sex scenes have their place. Yes, I hate gratuitous of badly written sex scenes as much as anyone. I have given up on more than a few novels for those reasons alone. However, also because of those awful sex scenes (one in particular I read when I was twelve and STILL knew it was bad: "He. . . .entered her." What is she, a door?), I swore I would have the guts to write good ones that did justice to my characters and their emotional landscapes. I use them sparingly. At the same time, I don't like gratuitous violence (though for some reason people are cooler with it) and I use it sparingly and make it as awful as I can. Again, it is used to move my characters forward. I feel like I've gotten to the point where I am repeating myself, but characters are whole people. We owe it to them to be true to their emotional landscapes, their entire emotional landscapes, and not snip out the parts we don't want to deal with.

As for publishing, I tone down some before I actually call the book done. But my books--from the swearing to the violence to the drug use--are meant to be mature audiences anyway. Also, my books are fusion fantasy (yes, I made that up). They are blendered smoothies of all kinds of genres, and I've given up on stopping that. Instead, I own it.