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"Terry" of Fantasy - Goodkind, Brooks, and Pratchett

J. S. Elliot

Inkling
Well, so far I'm still slogging through "Wizard's First Rule". Slogging actually kind of fits my opinion about it, as I'm rather unimpressed. It's decent thus far, but with Darken Rhal's first POV, all of that background build up of why we should fear him lets go of all the steam. A detail-oriented dictator with a pedophile of a compatriot, that, oh yes, has conveniently decided to lust after the protagonist's own forbidden relationship and predictably manipulate a child.

I'll at very least finish this book, but I'll wait until the end of it to decide if I'll look for more books in the same series by Goodkind.


Regarding Pratchett, though, I've heard that Discworld is massive. How many stand-alones are there?
 

myrddin173

Maester
Regarding Pratchett, though, I've heard that Discworld is massive. How many stand-alones are there?

If you are feeling daunted about starting I would recommend this graphic as it sorts all of the books (though it might be missing some of the newer ones, I can't be sure) in order by plot-line. In reality though I would suggest looking at the back cover summaries and pick the one you like most. They are written so that you can still enjoy the story without reading them "in order." Case in point, I have basically read the Death novels (by far my favorites) in reverse order and I was fine with it.
 

J. S. Elliot

Inkling
Hmm. That is interesting! Thank you for the link, Myrddin. (And the Death novels have the most interesting titles, by far.)
 

Telcontar

Staff
Moderator
Goodkind: I seem to be the resident Goodkind fan of the forums, and very much loved the Sword of Truth series (though it had a pretty major stumble with Pillars of Creation).

Pratchett: Read a short story by Pratchett and liked it, but for some reason have never managed to grab and read his other work. It's on my to-do list as I'm fairly certain I'll love it.

Brooks: Attempted to read Talismans of Shannara early on and found it bizarre and boring. Never tried again.
 

myrddin173

Maester
Brooks: Attempted to read Talismans of Shannara early on and found it bizarre and boring. Never tried again.

That might be due to the fact Talismans is the last in the four part Heritage of Shannara sub-series, so you missed a lot of the background necessary for that book particular book. The way he writes you get can get away with reading each respective sub-series out of order of the other sub-series. But you have to read the books of a particular sub-series in order. (wow that got confusing fast... Does that actually make any sense at all? Or am I just spouting nonsense at this point?)
 

WyrdMystic

Inkling
That might be due to the fact Talismans is the last in the four part Heritage of Shannara sub-series, so you missed a lot of the background necessary for that book particular book. The way he writes you get can get away with reading each respective sub-series out of order of the other sub-series. But you have to read the books of a particular sub-series in order. (wow that got confusing fast... Does that actually make any sense at all? Or am I just spouting nonsense at this point?)

I've read all of Brook's books. I love them, however, I could not finish Talismans of Shannara - there was something just wrong about it - if I were to guess it would be the use of the four horseman of the apocolypse, though knowing how things turned out that probably makes more sense now. I still don't know how the story resolved. Strangely, book 3 was my favorite of all.
 
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Telcontar

Staff
Moderator
That might be due to the fact Talismans is the last in the four part Heritage of Shannara sub-series, so you missed a lot of the background necessary for that book particular book. The way he writes you get can get away with reading each respective sub-series out of order of the other sub-series. But you have to read the books of a particular sub-series in order. (wow that got confusing fast... Does that actually make any sense at all? Or am I just spouting nonsense at this point?)

I remember somebody told me that once, but I found nothing redeeming in that little sample so am not overwhelmingly likely to try again. Too many authors, too little time.
 

J. S. Elliot

Inkling
Thought it was perhaps time to update this. I'm now 500 pages into "Wizard's First Rule", and unfortunately my earlier opinion of the Sword of Truth series still stands - I'm not all that impressed with it. The two main characters are starting to bore me, as I am still being bludgeoned with how "forbidden" and "dangerous" their relationship is. If anything, I'm more interested in Giller; who has already been killed off.

Will the remaining three hundred pages be, perhaps, more satisfying?
 
All I've read from these three is Brooks's Magic Kingdom for Sale—Sold! And, sadly, I didn't really enjoy it. The prose style itself was fine, and the characters themselves individually were fine, but the thing as a whole just sort of didn't hold together. The fantasy elements in the story just seemed sort of randomly assembled and strange, and the world itself didn't seem very thoroughly developed.

My wife has read it as well as the sequels and I think she liked them more than I did (well, she must have, since she continued reading them and I didn't).

I started reading one Pratchett book once but for some reason didn't get more than a few pages into it; I don't remember why, but I'm willing to give him another shot. Goodkind, from what I've heard, would just piss me off. ;)
 

J. S. Elliot

Inkling
Well, I've finally finished Goodkind's "Wizard's First Rule". Normally I'd knock out even an 800+ page book in two weeks even if I was busy, but I found it difficult to stay interested. There were numerous things that could've been better than they were, but they were left at the concept stage of an unaltered archetype. The fact that the book is loaded with archetypes isn't in of itself bad, but the fact that they stay archetypes really takes it's toll on the book in predictability ... also when combined with Goodkind's de ux machina in the last sixty pages. I've concluded that I won't be looking for the rest of the series in the library, and certainly won't be buying it.

So, this leaves Brooks and Pratchett in this group. Can you tell me anything specific, example wise, of why you didn't like the title mentioned in your last post, Ben?
 

Ireth

Myth Weaver
A warning for those looking to read Pratchett -- a number of his books have no chapters, which might make them harder to get into. If that would bother you, I'd recommend starting with The Amazing Maurice and His Educated Rodents or the Tiffany Aching books: The Wee Free Men, A Hat Full of Sky, Wintersmith and I Shall Wear Midnight. Just because they're YA doesn't mean they're any less dramatic or humorous than his more adult books, though. I Shall Wear Midnight is especially dark. There's also The Carpet People, which I don't think is a Discworld book but is still very good.
 
So, this leaves Brooks and Pratchett in this group. Can you tell me anything specific, example wise, of why you didn't like the title mentioned in your last post, Ben?

It's been a few years since I read it and seeing as I didn't like it much, I haven't thought about it much, so it's hard to remember... it felt like a sort of empty land. Like, there's the king's castle, with some servants in it, and then way over here there's some people who are necessary for the plot, etc. It felt more like someone had been dropped into a realm that was invented for a D&D campaign rather than an actual place. (Which might make sense given that the protagonist initially lives in Chicago and is teleported into this magic realm... but it didn't engage me.)

The elements of it just rubbed together in a weird way and it just wasn't appealing. I don't know, I can't really think of specific details, I just remember not really enjoying it.
 

amadhava

Scribe
I do believe I'm part of the minority - but I loved the Sword of truth series (read them all except I couldnt get through Pillars of creation the first time, and I still havent been able to bring myself to read the Law of the Nines.

I think the main reason I fell for the Sword of Truth series was that it was the fantasy version of Ayn Rand's Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged. The series does try to convince you about democracy, etc - especially in Faith of the Fallen. But Goodkind does have some remarkably good imagination. The exact foundations of magic arent laid out very well, but I like Richard, and Zedd, and Adie, and Gratch and many other characters. I like the world-building too - there is a lot of black and white in his world, which is how Rand also depicts our morality (and I dont agree with that) but it's easier to digest in the fantasy world that he's created. You have to park your reservations at the door (if you don't like a book that is very direct in its philosophical arguments, to go to the level of shoving it down your throat, then dont go here :) ). That being said, if I had read his facebook page before I had read the sword of truth, I probably wouldnt have like it half as much.

But the wizard rules (around which each book is based) are elegantly written out:
(from: Sword of Truth - Wikiquote)

1:
"People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they're afraid it might be true. Peoples' heads are full of knowledge, facts and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool."
2:
"The greatest harm can result from the best intentions."
3:
"Passion rules reason."
4:
"There is magic in sincere forgiveness. Magic to heal. In forgiveness you grant, and more so in the forgiveness you receive."
5:
"Mind what people do, not only what they say, for deeds will betray a lie."
6:
"The most important rule there is, the Wizard's Sixth Rule: the only sovereign you can allow to rule you is reason. The first law of reason is this: what exists, exists, what is, is and from this irreducible bedrock principle, all knowledge is built. It is the foundation from which life is embraced." – Richard
7:
"Life is the future, not the past. The past can teach us, through experience, how to accomplish things in the future, comfort us with cherished memories, and provide the foundation of what has already been accomplished. But only the future holds life. To live in the past is to embrace what is dead. To live life to its fullest, each day must be created anew. As rational, thinking beings, we must use our intellect, not a blind devotion to what has come before, to make rational choices."
8:
"Talga Vassternich. Deserve Victory."
9:
A contradiction cannot exist in reality. Not in part, nor in whole.
10:
"Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self."
11:
"The rule of all rules. The rule unwritten." The Unwritten rule which must be experienced before true understanding. Everything exists within us; your life is your own.
12:
You can destroy those who speak the truth, but you cannot destroy the truth itself.

I've read "Druid of Shannarra" by Brooks, and I've read one Prachett. But I do want to read more Prachett because I liked his writing style - lots of dry humour. And if I find myself utterly bored and without any other book to read someday, I think I might read another book by Brooks. I don't recall much of the Druid of Shannarra but I also don't remember being thrilled with it.
 

Gandalf

Dreamer
Loved the Goodkind books. Read the entire Sword of Truth series, but the TV series is just... Ridiculous.

Pratchett is funny, remarkably so, but it gets slightly excessive after 5,000,000,000,000,000,000 or something books in the same world.

Never read Brooks.
 

Ireth

Myth Weaver
Pratchett is funny, remarkably so, but it gets slightly excessive after 5,000,000,000,000,000,000 or something books in the same world.

I don't find it excessive at all. The great thing about creating an entire world with so many characters and places is that he can focus on different ones almost every time, and those he does return to are sure to get their share of character development. I'm quite fond of the books involving Death and his associates.
 

Gandalf

Dreamer
Yes, Death's definitely his best character. But I like the Luggage too. My favourite book is either The Colour of Magic/The Light Fantastic, or Reaper Man.
 

Xaysai

Inkling
I'm sorry, I just couldn't enjoy the Sword of Truth series - I made it to book 4 and just couldn't take it anymore.

As discussed, his writing is a bit preachy and his characters are too, well...perfect.

As for Terry Brooks, I just tried reading the Sword of Shannara and I gotta say, it really feels like I am reading Lord of the Rings.

Really? An unlikely band of characters (a human price, elves, dwarves, half elves) join together on a quest for an ancient artifact which has the power to combat an evil army marching on their homeland, who get split up during the journey and the rest of the story is told from the viewpoints of the different groups of characters who have banded together.

I haven't read Terry Pratchett yet, but would like to!
 
Really? An unlikely band of characters (a human price, elves, dwarves, half elves) join together on a quest for an ancient artifact which has the power to combat an evil army marching on their homeland, who get split up during the journey and the rest of the story is told from the viewpoints of the different groups of characters who have banded together.

Beware trying to unify different stories by picking out common elements. What you described could apply to countless (published) works; that doesn't mean that stories with the same basic premise (adventurers seeking artifact to defeat evil empire) are similar in tone, themes, or execution.
 
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