Defending Romance in RPGs

[Griffin]

A buddy of mine made a very odd argument. He was complaining about how more RPGs are incorporating love/marriage/family into their works. He referred it as "chick stuff." He went on to say that most gamers are "straight guys" so gaming companies should cater to that.

I can sympathize with him to a point. I have a hard time playing most Bioware games without ending up romancing every character available. (I still love you, Bioware.) However, I believe the "chick stuff" brings another dynamic to the RPG world. For example, Skyrim was the first of its series to introduce marriage and raising children. While it was weird that my argonian character, her orc husband, and two nord children lived happily near a swamp, it added another dimension.

Now while most gamers are, in fact, straight males, not all gamers are. In addition, videogames are not about your life. It is about living another life. Creating another story. So yes, I can be a gay dwarf if I want to or I can save the galaxy with an alien babe on my arm. Or I can be a lone ranger with no time for romance.

How do my fellow gamers feel? Romance: yay or nay?

 

[Feo Takahari]

I think WRPGs should make players work for their romance a little more. It feels awkward when a well-developed and likeable character instantly falls head-over-heels for a bland player stand-in for no better reason than that the player might find her bangable. Still, I'm not opposed to the idea of romance in games, and I think it could lead in directions the medium hasn't yet given much consideration to.

(It's kind of funny how in WRPGs, my problem is with the caliber of the player character love interests, and in JRPGs, my problem is with the perfect little flowers or bipolar physical abusers they're expected to fall in love with . . .)

 

[Benjamin Clayborne]

A buddy of mine made a very odd argument. He was complaining about how more RPGs are incorporating love/marriage/family into their works. He referred it as "chick stuff." He went on to say that most gamers are "straight guys" so gaming companies should cater to that.

Riiiight, because up until now, gaming companies haven't been catering to straight guys at all.

 

[Wanara009]

Of course Yay. Personally though, I have problem with what part of romance is highlighted in games. In any game I've played with romance in them usually depict how a relationship start, rather than the actual difficulty of making it stick. This is a problem in both WRPG and JRPG, which really ticked me off (and people wonder why I like the relatively plotless Monster Hunter (tm) where all I do in them is whack dragons on the head ).

I don't sympathize with your friend at all, Griffin. I'm a "Straight Guy" too but I don't mind marriage and raising children in my RPG. It is after all a Role playing game! If there's someone who want to roleplay as a devoted and caring husband/father instead of just a jerkoff Cassanova wannabe, they should be able to. If someone have a problem with it and think the whole industry shouldn't do such a think, tell them to f*** off back to their insipid spunkgargleweewee

 

[Zero Angel]

I've had straight male beta readers complain that regardless of what my story is about, they will lose interest if there is no love interest of some sort.

As far as gaming goes, I've never played a D&D game where the (presumably straight male) players did not try to seduce every female character with a charisma above 14.

I think companies include that stuff because (A) they can and (B) more is better.

Also, what non-JRPGs do they force love and marriage on your character?

 

[imsc]

yay. aren't romances, marriage, and raising families a part of life, even for straight guys lol? i don't think adding those elements make role playing games a version of a "chick flick" as long as they are not overdone. plus i would figure it would be up to the gm and the playing group how much realism would go into their game?

 

[Mindfire]

I say give the player choice and freedom. If they want romance and family life, let em have it. If not, let em skip it.

That said, the romance option in every game I've seen is pretty one note and shallow.

"I like you. Marry me!"
"Of course, Sir Dragonborn! I'd be honored to give up my profitable business to do nothing but stand around in your empty, quiet player home with the dog while you're out fighting the undead!'

As has been said, they only show the beginning of a relationship, if that's what you can call it. Where's the courtship? Creative proposals? Marital arguments? Pregnancy? Raising (i.e. truly interacting with) your children? Settling family disputes? Protecting your children from old enemies seeking revenge? Teaching them how to be junior badasses?

My point is, straight male gamers (of which I am one) aren't deterred from romance or family life simply because that's how we intrinsically are. Were that true, humanity would be long extinct. Rather, I think the problem is that romance and family life in games is often either too sappy and cutesy or just boring and half baked.

I pick on Skyrim, but they gave a decent effort. However I still think it's odd, and maybe unethical, that you can get a COMPLETE STRANGER to marry you just by wearing a magical charm. They should at least want to get to know you first. And no, not by making you do fetch quests.

 

[Zero Angel]

I say give the player choice and freedom. If they want romance and family life, let em have it. If not, let em skip it.

That said, the romance option in every game I've seen is pretty one note and shallow.

"I like you. Marry me!"
"Of course, Sir Dragonborn! I'd be honored to give up my profitable business to do nothing but stand around in your empty, quiet player home with the dog while you're out fighting the undead!'

As has been said, they only show the beginning of a relationship, if that's what you can call it. Where's the courtship? Creative proposals? Marital arguments? Pregnancy? Raising (i.e. truly interacting with) your children? Settling family disputes? Protecting your children from old enemies seeking revenge? Teaching them how to be junior badasses?

My point is, straight male gamers (of which I am one) aren't deterred from romance or family life simply because that's how we intrinsically are. Were that true, humanity would be long extinct. Rather, I think the problem is that romance and family life in games is often either too sappy and cutesy or just boring and half baked.

I pick on Skyrim, but they gave a decent effort. However I still think it's odd, and maybe unethical, that you can get a COMPLETE STRANGER to marry you just by wearing a magical charm. They should at least want to get to know you first. And no, not by making you do fetch quests.

Well they do have a built-in lore explanation for it. Namely, life is hard in Skyrim, so people aren't picky.

On the other hand, games like Harvest Moon make it much more involved to woo someone and keep them happy.

 

[yachtcaptcolby]

The problem with romance in gaming (video games, at least) is that so much of the writing and presentation is flat-out cringe worthy. Take, for instance, Final Fantasy X; that's a great, tragic love story if you can get past the terrible laughing scene and the main character's constant whining. Mass Effect romances are reasonably well done until you reach the awkward cinematics that depict the...errr...consumation of your character's courtship. You can get married and have children in Fable, but doing so is pretty shallow and useless (unless something's changed since Fable 2).

Romance can be a very effective theme in gaming, but developers have a lot to learn about writing and presenting it.

 

[Anders Ämting]

A buddy of mine made a very odd argument. He was complaining about how more RPGs are incorporating love/marriage/family into their works. He referred it as "chick stuff." He went on to say that most gamers are "straight guys" so gaming companies should cater to that.

And your friend is, what? 12, 13 years old?

How do my fellow gamers feel? Romance: yay or nay?

Frankly, I believe all stories should include romance in some form.

That said, though, I think it's matter of execution. I would rather see an RPG skip the romance all together rather than staple it on as a poorly designed extra feature completely void of human emotion. Say, that reminds me of something...

"I like you. Marry me!"
"Of course, Sir Dragonborn! I'd be honored to give up my profitable business to do nothing but stand around in your empty, quiet player home with the dog while you're out fighting the undead!'

As has been said, they only show the beginning of a relationship, if that's what you can call it. Where's the courtship?

Haha, silly Mindfire. Skyrim doesn't have things like romance and relationships. It merely gives you the option to randomly marry a complete stranger after doing them a favor once.

Well, just as long as said stranger isn't important to the plot, anyway. You wouldn't want to marry someone you actually get to interact with, after all. That might let you pretend that your character actually cares about said person.

 

[Mindfire]

Frankly, I believe all stories should include romance in some form.

ALL stories? Your definition of romance must be very broad. But please, elaborate. What do you mean by "all stories should"?

 

[Ireth]

ALL stories? Your definition of romance must be very broad. But please, elaborate. What do you mean by "all stories should"?

I was about to ask the same question. XD

 

[Zero Angel]

ALL stories? Your definition of romance must be very broad. But please, elaborate. What do you mean by "all stories should"?

To each their own I suppose. For instance, I think all stories should feature a protagonist with some tragedy that ultimately overcomes world ending evil by expending the last of his superpowers and falling.

Spoiler: similar to animated film from the 90s

Like IRON GIANT!

That movie rocked.

 

[Benjamin Clayborne]

Frankly, I believe all stories should include romance in some form.

Really? Why is romance so critical? There are a number of different kinds of elements that can go into a story and not all of them need to be in every story. Not every story needs a black-hat antagonist, or a goofy sidekick, or a contemplation of mortality, or humor, or even serious drama. Why should romance be an exception?

I can think of a few great movies (mostly war movies) with no substantive romantic element, e.g. Saving Private Ryan. If you want to expand "romance" to include every kind of close relationship (e.g. bromance), then that's another story.

 

[Zero Angel]

I can think of a few great movies (mostly war movies) with no substantive romantic element, e.g. Saving Private Ryan. If you want to expand "romance" to include every kind of close relationship (e.g. bromance), then that's another story.

And animals and every other character's relationship...but there are even good single character stories.

 

[Steerpike]

There are some stories where romance is hardly possible or desirable. Think of the classic film 12 Angry Men.

 

[Anders Ämting]

ALL stories? Your definition of romance must be very broad.

Not really. I define it as: "Whenever characters experience development as a result of emotional attraction."

But please, elaborate. What do you mean by "all stories should"?

Fine, I'll rephrase myself.

All stories benefit from romantic elements.

Sheesh.

Really? Why is romance so critical?

Now you're reading between the lines. I never said it's critical, I'm just saying it's better to have it than not to have it.

There are a number of different kinds of elements that can go into a story and not all of them need to be in every story. Not every story needs a black-hat antagonist, or a goofy sidekick, or a contemplation of mortality, or humor, or even serious drama. Why should romance be an exception?

Actually, all stories need humour. No exceptions. On that point I am adamant.

I can think of a few great movies (mostly war movies) with no substantive romantic element, e.g. Saving Private Ryan. If you want to expand "romance" to include every kind of close relationship (e.g. bromance), then that's another story.

There are some stories where romance is hardly possible or desirable. Think of the classic film 12 Angry Men.

Again, I'm not saying one cannot tell a good story without romance. That would be ridiculous. In fact, I'm not even saying it's always advisable to attemt. (Because, as was my original point, if you can't do it well you shouldn't do it at all.)

What I'm saying is, if a story can include a good romance, it should.

 

[Benjamin Clayborne]

What I'm saying is, if a story can include a good romance, it should.

I can agree with that; but that's a very different statement from "All stories benefit from romantic elements."

 

[Zireael]

Well, on topic of romance: I liked all three of Baldur's Gate romances (the ones for a male protagonist - they were very well-written and highlighted the differences between Viconia, Jaheira and Aerie. The question is, why does a female protagonist get only one romanceable character, and why, for the love of ***, it's Anomen? The Anomen romance is so horribly shallow... and he's a jerkass...

 

[aliciamarie]

I am a little bias, being female and pro-romance, but I feel like adding romance does make it more true to life.